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Author Topic: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread  (Read 1028302 times)

Offline pixelgeek

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #435 on: January 23, 2014, 03:18:50 PM »
Anyone who thinks GW make the best miniatures in the market have swallowed their propaganda nicely and clearly don't spend a lot of time checking out the superb works of art (created in metal and suitable resin) by smaller companies.

On the whole I think GW makes some very nice figures. Their plastics are especially good but their single figures are really lacking. It says something that probably my favourite GW single mini is an ancient sculpt of Kharn.

What brings the level of quality down is that they primarily produce figures for plastic production and use 3D sculpting and that brings with it a set of constraints.

They also produce figures that come with multiple possible poses and multiple weapon kits which again causes limits in their ability to sculpt.

Given that though, I think some of their figures are great. Their Wood Elf range, with the exception of some of the single figures, are great. I'd play a Wood Elf army in a second if it wasn't going to require a mortage payment to do so.

Offline Cubs

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #436 on: January 23, 2014, 03:32:28 PM »
Oh, they're good, I won't argue with that. But the best? No way.
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Offline Timbor

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #437 on: January 23, 2014, 03:46:42 PM »
Their quality is really top notch in most cases if you are looking at crisp detail and sculpting quality.  My big issue with many of the new releases hinges on style, and OTT details.  The style I can understand probably is more to appeal to their target audience, but the sheer amount of little bits and bobs and the huge gaudy wagons/monstrosities they have been releasing just end up being an eyesore.  I find more appeal in a well-sculpted and positioned cape or plate of armour than adorning said item with forty little skulls or baubles or medals or whatever.

Not to mention that the painting skill required to give justice to such sculpts just aren't there in most people who prefer gaming to painting, so it just makes a cluttered model look worse with a bad paintjob.  IMO a simple figure with a simple paintjob looks way better than a really busy but well sculpted miniature with the same simple skill level applied.
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Offline knoxville

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #438 on: January 23, 2014, 05:19:50 PM »
Cubs, just out of curiosity, who's the best in your POV? A lot of people keep saying they're not the best, but no one gives examples. As I said, I don't think they are the no. 1, but I cannot really think of a comparable company. The one I can think of as closest are probably Renedra and Tamiya.

Timbor: Too much details is an argument I never heard before, but I certainly get your point :D I think the best way to produce good paintjobs on GW models is to use the comic painting style they're promoting. In the same way the Foundry style works for more simple models, it brings the best of the model into focus.
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Offline Cubs

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #439 on: January 23, 2014, 05:48:53 PM »
Cubs, just out of curiosity, who's the best in your POV?

You ever type anything and then later think, "Hmmm, that was a bit strong, perhaps I shouldn't have put it like that,"?

My options are -

1. Apologise for putting it so clumsily and accept I was being a bit of an eejit,

2. Claim to have been possessed by the spirit of the late Oliver Reed,

3. Blame the Catholic Church in some fashion.

Frankly I reckon the Pope hacked my computer and typed that in my name.

Let's try this - I no longer regard them as the best quality (although ten years ago I might have done so) because too many of their models look like overdressed action figures rolled in over-busy iconography for my taste ... BUT, I must learn to accept that others may like this and that this is their right.

Personally, I absolutely love Redbox Games stuff and find them nearly faultless. Tre Manor is a superb sculptor. Anything by the Perry twins oozes quality, ditto Paul Hicks and Steve Saleh. They manage to combine crisp detail with realism and great understated poses.

If you want the fantasy and sci-fi stuff, then Hasslefree, Otherworld Miniatures and pretty much anything they paint and display on WaMP I would rate above the current lines of GW. That isn't to say they don't have the odd outstanding piece that I can appreciate.

PS. This confuses me, because most of what Forgeworld produces (they still running?) is very fine indeed, but that same quality doesn't seem to drip through to their usual lines.

Offline Modhail

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #440 on: January 23, 2014, 07:46:32 PM »
Could this be because the Forgeworld design team still sculpts their figures by hand, where GW's plastics are all made on a computer? Computer sculpted minis often lack the small imperfections and traces of the maker's hand that gives a handsculpted figure soul and presence. Computer sculpted mini's are just too clean and perfect to have a sense of "life" to them.

I've noticed something similar with other manufacturer's lines that mix traditional and computer sculpted mini's in their ranges, like Privateer Press.

Then again the Finecast stuff, and before that the last generations of metals were also sculpted by hand. But those were doused in "Grimdark" (a.k.a. skullz and bog rolls) to match the plastics, Forgeworld stuff tends to be a bit more understated. (for GW that is!)

Offline Gibby

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #441 on: January 23, 2014, 08:07:42 PM »
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2340100a

Sorry to be the one spamming links of late, but is this a new approach where they realise that bundles will be more attractive to customers if they save them money? Unthinkable! Credit where it's due, though; this box set saves you over £50 by the looks of it and it's not even Limited Edition!

Offline pixelgeek

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #442 on: January 23, 2014, 08:36:27 PM »
Could this be because the Forgeworld design team still sculpts their figures by hand, where GW's plastics are all made on a computer?

That might be part of it. They also don't spend a lot of time creating "heroic" figures. Even the Primarchs they are producing are much more realistic looking than most GW sculpts.

Offline pixelgeek

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #443 on: January 23, 2014, 08:37:47 PM »
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2340100a

Sorry to be the one spamming links of late, but is this a new approach where they realise that bundles will be more attractive to customers if they save them money? Unthinkable! Credit where it's due, though; this box set saves you over £50 by the looks of it and it's not even Limited Edition!

That is actually a bit of an oddity for recent GW collections. Maybe they finally heard all the criticism of their previous efforts that gave you minimal savings?

Mind you the One Click Collection

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2350008a

is $387.50 Cnd and it has eight big models and a book  :o
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 08:41:05 PM by pixelgeek »

Offline Argonor

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #444 on: January 23, 2014, 09:22:17 PM »
Also, aside from the relieving feeling someone gets from a price rant on the internet, think about the % of how many of the complaining people are still customers. Even if GW would decrease prices, the majority would not come back. So in the end, they would not make any more money.

I have to totally disagree with you; that statement is a contradiction to both microeconomics theory, and the statement of both myself and others here, that we would still be collecting if the prices hadn't gone through the roof..

And I do have a university degree in economics AND managed a retail store for five years, before anyone asks.  :)
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Offline fitterpete

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #445 on: January 24, 2014, 01:41:23 AM »
Foundry did it and it seemed to work for them :D

Offline FramFramson

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #446 on: January 24, 2014, 07:08:49 AM »
That's actually a good example. GW should look to what Foundry, at least as a start.

Offline Argonor

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #447 on: January 24, 2014, 08:47:34 AM »

and I am glad you have because I have a burning question on price and lowering it.

from deep in the memory vault something is telling me if you have a premium product and drop the price you can damage the brands perceived value and make things worse. "They used to make quality goods now they churn out cheap shit." sort of thing.
 
Is that just bad data in the brain or is there some validity to it.   

There is, but it really depends on consumer perception of the product, and as far as I remember it only applies in a competitive environment, and not monopoly situation - and I perceive GW as holding a kind of monopoly status (you cannot buy eldar, space marines, and other stuff from someone else, like you can with old west or pulp minis, for instance).

And I simply refuse the notion, that the great majority of gamers buys GW stuff for the bling value. If you compare to ladies accessories, you never hear someone complain about the price tag of their new chanel purse, or the likes. Luxury items are mainly bought for their show-off effect, only secondarily for their utility value - as opposed to miniatures that are mainly purchased for their in-game effect.

The supply/demand relationship in a monopoly situation gives a higher equilibrium price than the one in a competitive environment, but lower prices should still raise sales, while higher prices reduce it.

I firmly believe that GW has simply overshot the equilibrium price so  much that it's hurting sales, it's a simple as that.

Does anyone in here seriously believe that FEWER people would buy GW products if they could be had at reasonable prices??

Offline Dr. Zombie

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #448 on: January 24, 2014, 09:02:00 AM »
If prices were lower I would buy loads of GW kits. The Flagellant box imediately springs to mind it really is a great set that can be used for soo many things. But I simply cannot convince myself to spend the amount of money that GW is asking for it.

I remember in the good old days when a GW box set with 20 models cost around £10 back they I would buy box sets just for bits. I would not dream of that now.

Offline knoxville

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Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #449 on: January 24, 2014, 11:09:41 AM »
@Cubs: Don't worry. It's the internet, how can someone take anything serious here, we're a bunch of model-soldier collecting nerds :D But thank you for your reply. If I understood you correctly, in your view quality = style. That's a bit hard to argue about :) I was more referring to actual casting quality.

@Argonor: You're right of course, I should have been more specific. Can we apply formulas and theories because of statements of some people on the internet? It's hard to find a truly objective crowd when talking about hobby-related stuff. Let's take the recent comments about Wargames Foundry. Would you think a global retail chain with around 2000 employees should take the same actions as a small company still relying on manual-casting, "because it worked for them"? I just find most peoples view too stuck in the 80s/90s. Back then, the companies were certainly comparable, but 20-30 years later? GW today is a multitude of connected problems and solutions. Just taking one action will not help, but the majority of the internet seems to forget that. I don't doubt that you or other LAFers would buy again, but would the amount be enough to justify the price decrease? Would the increased sales cover the decreased margin in long-term?

Also, everything that Scurv said about tattoed girls in their shops!  ;D

 

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