*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 19, 2019, 01:22:58 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 1350163
  • Total Topics: 95535
  • Online Today: 142
  • Online Ever: 1136
  • (July 19, 2019, 06:36:21 PM)
Users Online

Recent

Author Topic: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread  (Read 1028334 times)

Offline nic-e

  • scatterbrained genius
  • Posts: 2073
    • Mystarikum
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #750 on: March 12, 2014, 09:26:57 PM »
okay, i don't like them enough to buy them but two things jump to mind....
1.arbites ogryns.
2.riot prevention imperial guard centurion mashup.call them the spartan squad and that'd explain their phalanx style shields.

on the one hand gw mini's always give my ideas, on the other im sad that i never like them enough to want them for anything but conversions.the potential is there, just buried under lots of meh :P
never trust a horse, they make a commitment to shoes that no animal should make.

http://mystarikum.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline Mason

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • elder god
  • *
  • Posts: 19851
  • Eternal Butterfly!
    • Blind Beggar Miniatures
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #751 on: March 12, 2014, 09:35:27 PM »
on the one hand gw mini's always give my ideas, on the other im sad that i never like them enough to want them for anything but conversions.the potential is there, just buried under lots of meh :P

The nail has been hit on the head!
 :D


Offline Vermis

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • scatterbrained genius
  • *
  • Posts: 2433
    • Mini Sculpture
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #752 on: March 12, 2014, 09:40:09 PM »
Quote
on the one hand gw mini's always give my ideas, on the other im sad that i never like them enough to want them for anything but conversions.the potential is there, just buried under lots of meh

True, true! Hence the second thought.

Steve Buddle's aforementioned blog post:

http://spyglassasylum.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/curious-case-of-making-metal-look.html

Offline nic-e

  • scatterbrained genius
  • Posts: 2073
    • Mystarikum
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #753 on: March 12, 2014, 09:45:32 PM »
True, true! Hence the second thought.

Steve Buddle's aforementioned blog post:

http://spyglassasylum.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/curious-case-of-making-metal-look.html

You know he did a post the other day that i think is also relevant, about the move away from games workshop a few years ago ,away from punky painting towards the perfectly blended realistic tones. i think gw is trying to strike a balance between the people who want the pieces for fun and the people who want to paint them for display, and it just ends up looking half arsed.
I hope the trend of more blanch style painting comes back because it may add some life to these flat miniatures, but right now i don't look forward to the slew of airbrushed and blended cartoon realistic paintjobs that will come along with this release.

40k is at its core a punky grim dark game of over the top spikyness and stupidity, which is great! but it isnt rackham, it isnt warmahordes or any of the other "cleaner" styled games, and it needs to stop trying to appeal to that market and get back to being spiky dirty and hilariously bleak.

Offline Vermis

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • scatterbrained genius
  • *
  • Posts: 2433
    • Mini Sculpture
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #754 on: March 12, 2014, 09:59:52 PM »
You know he did a post the other day that i think is also relevant, about the move away from games workshop a few years ago ,away from punky painting towards the perfectly blended realistic tones. i think gw is trying to strike a balance between the people who want the pieces for fun and the people who want to paint them for display, and it just ends up looking half arsed.
I hope the trend of more blanch style painting comes back because it may add some life to these flat miniatures, but right now i don't look forward to the slew of airbrushed and blended cartoon realistic paintjobs that will come along with this release.

I know! :) Scanning down his blog to look for that link, I was reminded of all the blanchitsu stuff he posted. Particularly the forgeworld ettin. A wee bit messy-looking on the close-up (nothing too egregious) but like a Blanche painting come to life in the full shot. Convinced me that there was more room for... maybe 'painterly style' isn't quite the right phrase, but more expression. Less of GW's flat basecoat with dark lines, as with all those ogryns, or as you say, perfect, mechanical blends.

Though when you say 'he did a post the other day' - where was that?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 10:02:06 PM by Vermis »

Offline Timbor

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1402
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #755 on: March 12, 2014, 10:07:46 PM »
Those top ones aren't very good either, Timbor.  :P

Looking at them, I'm reminded of something Steve Buddle once blogged about, and that might explain the 'too CAD-looking' complaints. Namely, the idea that GW might have started to design metal/finecast minis to resemble minis subject to the undercut limitations of plastic injection. I can sort of see it in the flattened, angular planes and features, especially in the faces.
'Course, this doesn't explain why even plastic minis should have flattened planes all over, and I don't think it accounts for the drop in quality, specifically in these ogryns and the new plastic versions. I agree that they look kind of lifeless, but I don't agree it's down to CAD. Can't really put my finger on it, but they look chunky and simplified. Has this got something to do with appealing to a younger market? I dunno. In addition, I look at the faces of these soon-to-be-replaced ogryns and TBH they look like the sculptor didn't have much of a grasp of how a face is put together. I can see how they'd appeal in being neat and clean in their angularity, but noses, brows, creases, teeth etc. look pretty crude and inexpert. Is it because the sculptor isn't up to scratch, or because they're railroaded into a house style, including a sort of (de) evolution of what's sold in the past? (especially with crude ogryn faces) Does any of that 'simplified for kids' theory come into it too?

I'm not really fond of the vintage Perry and Goodwin ogres and ogryns, with their flat noses and goofy Muppet faces; but they do look preferable to all these later versions. (especially when you look past the faces) Cartoony and a bit crude, but looking more like the old boys knew what they were doing and designing, and knew what anatomy they were exaggerating. (not surprising) More characterful. Less of the 'designed by committee', 'sculpt-by-numbers' look.

Not too shabby, is it? I bought one at full price. Considering buying another, even at full price, for converting.

I meant I dislike the current metal ogryns, moreso than the upcoming releases.  I would agree that I have seen a somewhat 'simplification' of details on GW models, if that makes sense.  My main point would be to compare the current plastic skaven troops to older ones - the older ones had more fine detail for the fur and whiskers, etc, whereas the newer ones tend to have smooth, flowing fur and whisker details. Same goes for the 6th edition plastic empire state troops - you could see the fine details for the hair and beards, and the eyelids and cheekbones were visible.  The newer kits have smoother finishes on those which gives it a different look (not necessarily better).

I think a lot of the new kits have been improved in some posing and weapons details, etc, but the simplification of some of those finer details (not to mention the addition of useless skulls bits and bobs) often makes them less appealing.
Paint log - leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=36840.0

Blog - My life in Millimetres

Offline nic-e

  • scatterbrained genius
  • Posts: 2073
    • Mystarikum
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #756 on: March 12, 2014, 10:11:22 PM »
I know! :) Scanning down his blog to look for that link, I was reminded of all the blanchitsu stuff he posted. Particularly the forgeworld ettin. A wee bit messy-looking on the close-up (nothing too egregious) but like a Blanche painting come to life in the full shot. Convinced me that there was more room for... maybe 'painterly style' isn't quite the right phrase, but more expression. Less of GW's flat basecoat with dark lines, as with all those ogryns, or as you say, perfect, mechanical blends.

Though when you say 'he did a post the other day' - where was that?

"paintilistic" is the phrase we use, not really a real word but its what we use in the studio to describe the idea of using process and layers to add texture in an expressive way.although if im being an art student arsehole for a minute, i'd describe blanches style almost as sculptural, using the paint to create texture, and actually working into his paint to add depth and form rather than blending to create tone.

Offline Modhail

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1284
    • http://modhails-meanderings.blogspot.com/
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #757 on: March 12, 2014, 10:29:00 PM »
It seems that GW's  "official" painting style is purely dogmatic and focused on technique, with the miniature itself, or what it is meant to represent given seemingly no thought or attention. It seems to be just: select surface to paint, select colour, start standard painting routine, select next surface, next colour, apply routine again, repeat until all surfaces have been processed. Grab next figure, select surface, etc.... Pure assembly line.
(Hardly surprising, seeing the sheer avalanche of releases GW puts out, the painters simply don't have time go give each mini proper attention or immerse themselves in the subject at hand.)
And, judging by a segment of modern sculpts, the same goes for the sculptors.
Such a shame, and waste of a perfectly good setting, IP and visual style.

Offline nic-e

  • scatterbrained genius
  • Posts: 2073
    • Mystarikum
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #758 on: March 12, 2014, 10:40:17 PM »
It seems that GW's  "official" painting style is purely dogmatic and focused on technique, with the miniature itself, or what it is meant to represent given seemingly no thought or attention. It seems to be just: select surface to paint, select colour, start standard painting routine, select next surface, next colour, apply routine again, repeat until all surfaces have been processed. Grab next figure, select surface, etc.... Pure assembly line.
(Hardly surprising, seeing the sheer avalanche of releases GW puts out, the painters simply don't have time go give each mini proper attention or immerse themselves in the subject at hand.)
And, judging by a segment of modern sculpts, the same goes for the sculptors.
Such a shame, and waste of a perfectly good setting, IP and visual style.

This is my issue with airbrushes.there are amazing things you can do with an airbrush, really amazing things, but all i see if base coat , highlight, template, neon highlights.
rinse and repeat.

Remember tho that the early eavy metal painters were punk art students, their experience of painting was from an artistic background and so they used artistic techniques which on a small scale produce great effects that look messy but full of character.now most miniature painters learned to paint using miniatures , and the best painters normally paint the more "boutique" miniatures which were made as a reaction against the punky dirty style of gw. it's sort of like art history in reverse, or like art ANCIENT history being played out in miniature.
one thing that always bugged me with the sculpts was that they were cluttered, but not detailed.take the metal space marine heroes from a few years ago, lots of stuff on them but very little striking detail and no really big surfaces to  play with.


i never followed the painting guides in white dwarf because they weren't my color schemes and i couldn't afford all the paints, so i used the fine art techniques my dad taught me which i later developed on miniatures and then used in my own fine art studied, and am now bringing back to miniatures.

do they fit the ultra neat cartoony realistic look that has become standard? no.
are they fun to do and full of character? they are to me, and that makes them great.

i may never play a game of 40k again, but i my build a punk gothic troupe of actors with guns living on a floating tank stage, and whilst i wont have made everything look like it came out of the box pre painted, il love how they look when they're done, and if you ask me that's when we need more of, willingness to be out their and have armies with character.


(sorry is this is all getting a little non sensicle to anyone who isn't familiar with my stream of consciousnesses ranting  :D.)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 11:02:27 PM by nic-e »

Offline Cubs

  • scatterbrained genius
  • Posts: 3536
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #759 on: March 13, 2014, 10:02:13 AM »
It seems that GW's  "official" painting style is purely dogmatic and focused on technique ...

Definitely. I judge that their focus is about making sure each painter adheres to the 'Eavy Metal style of process, such that a consistent and uniform standard and style is produced, no matter who the individual is. It does fit with their company ethos of micro-management and corporate identity and thus flair and artistry is lost in the name of identical processing.
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter

Offline pixelgeek

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1433
    • Zac's Gaming Blog
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #760 on: March 13, 2014, 02:37:44 PM »
Flair and artistry are also lost in the photography process. A lot of detail is just not seen in photographs unless you are specifically shooting to show it. Even back when Mike McVey was at GW they painted specifically for photographing the models and I suspect that the intervening years have just codified that process.

Offline Cubs

  • scatterbrained genius
  • Posts: 3536
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #761 on: March 13, 2014, 04:48:12 PM »
I can kind of see where they're coming from, if they have identified a specific style as being the one they want to get the response they're after.

It's a bit like McDonalds. It doesn't matter which McDonalds you go into, wherever it is in the world, you know exactly what you're going to get. It ain't good for you and it's not exceptional quality, but it is strangely reassuring.

Offline pixelgeek

  • mastermind
  • Posts: 1433
    • Zac's Gaming Blog
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #762 on: March 13, 2014, 04:53:58 PM »
I can kind of see where they're coming from, if they have identified a specific style as being the one they want to get the response they're after.

I had the pleasure of being able to see some of the Privateer Press catalogue models once and some of the figures had detail on them (the Khador jacks especially) that just disappears in the photos. Total waste of time to do it if you are going to paint the model for a catalogue or print piece. I was there to do an interview with Mike McVey and when I mentioned that to him he talked about GW and how they painted specifically for print. Models that might not be the best paint job or even what the painter wanted to do but was done to feature the models and make them look good in print.

Offline nic-e

  • scatterbrained genius
  • Posts: 2073
    • Mystarikum
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #763 on: March 13, 2014, 06:14:31 PM »
I had the pleasure of being able to see some of the Privateer Press catalogue models once and some of the figures had detail on them (the Khador jacks especially) that just disappears in the photos. Total waste of time to do it if you are going to paint the model for a catalogue or print piece. I was there to do an interview with Mike McVey and when I mentioned that to him he talked about GW and how they painted specifically for print. Models that might not be the best paint job or even what the painter wanted to do but was done to feature the models and make them look good in print.

I need to track down the penny arcade comic about mcvey and how he painted around white dwarf deadlines.

Offline Vermis

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • scatterbrained genius
  • *
  • Posts: 2433
    • Mini Sculpture
Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
« Reply #764 on: March 14, 2014, 07:12:19 PM »
Richard 'one fat lardy' Clarke's column in Wargames: Soldiers and Strategy mentions that he thinks the move to skirmish games with 10-20-30 minis a side is largely down to GW's games and starter sets.

I like your column Rich, but:

 lol lol lol

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
26 Replies
12021 Views
Last post January 18, 2015, 11:23:57 AM
by Arlequín
4 Replies
1968 Views
Last post October 05, 2013, 12:39:52 PM
by janner
1 Replies
1293 Views
Last post June 24, 2014, 05:10:45 AM
by Westfalia Chris
250 Replies
70579 Views
Last post June 19, 2015, 03:11:30 AM
by syrinx0
146 Replies
8338 Views
Last post February 08, 2018, 05:50:06 PM
by Bahir