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Author Topic: Bolt Action for the SCW  (Read 5230 times)

Offline H.M.Stanley

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« on: August 16, 2013, 04:42:46 PM »
Could someone post a link to the BA/SCW lists please. I couldn't find it for the life of me. Nice Blog though.

I've used the Iron Ivan rules for SCW and, for me, they play extremely well, due mostly to limited numbers of vehicles which is where the rules generally break down (pardon the pun).

I've also played vanilla BA for SCW and thought they played quite well, using Veteran/Legion, Regular/Asaltos & Brigaders and Inexperienced/Militia
"Ho, ho, ho! Well, if it isn't fat stinking billy goat Billy Boy in poison! How art thou, thou globby bottle of cheap, stinking chip oil? Come and get one in the yarbles, if ya have any yarbles, you eunuch jelly thou!"

Offline Arlequín

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2013, 07:10:54 PM »
Thanks for that  :)

I pulled the lists (which were on my other blog in any case  ::) ) as I wasn't happy with them and I also made an error or two. I've put them back up for now, but I consider them still a 'work in progress'.

Overview
Rule Mods
Republican List
Nationalist List

Offline Durutti

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2013, 08:15:11 PM »
Good read, a lot of great ideas to take onboard, and mix in with some of the additional rules I already have noted down myself.

I am putting on a game next Friday (23rd) at the club I attend, using Bolt Action with adaptations. I will post the troop lists, plus extra rules bits on my blog, with an AAR to follow. Looking to play Militia against the Tercio and Moros, as they are the most complete forces I have to hand at the moment.

Have also ordered the new Command and Control rules, not sure how they are going to play out though, as the intricacies of WW2 platoon actions are somewhat different to the tactics used in the SCW lol

As a matter of interest, has anyone tried out the Osprey "A World Aflame" ruleset

and for a completely offf the wall game http://mr-home.staff.shef.ac.uk/rules/mex36.html

Offline H.M.Stanley

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 08:41:10 AM »
Thanks for that  :)

I pulled the lists (which were on my other blog in any case  ::) ) as I wasn't happy with them and I also made an error or two. I've put them back up for now, but I consider them still a 'work in progress'.

Overview
Rule Mods
Republican List
Nationalist List

Top banana! And thank you for sharing those. I'm going to have a good old read when i get a moment

Offline Arlequín

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2013, 10:23:51 AM »
Don't get too excited, they only really cover July to September-ish 1936.  :)

Offline H.M.Stanley

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 09:02:17 AM »
Don't get too excited, they only really cover July to September-ish 1936.  :)

That's fine chap - i have Militia, Brigaders*, Assaltos, Guardia Civil and La Legion troops so should be able to cobble something together for that period  :)

I need to drop a project somewhere and expand into the Falange, Requetes ...

On a more pressing note, where can i get a FT-17 from in 28mm? No plastic kits if possible.

Thanks,

James

* I'd use the Brigaders as Communists (slightly better, Green?, than Militia)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 09:20:02 AM by H.M.Stanley »

Offline Arlequín

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2013, 10:00:09 AM »
* I'd use the Brigaders as Communists (slightly better, Green?, than Militia)

I can only really comment on the Madrid - Seville region, but yes, the 'Communist' Compañías de Acero, which were churned out by the training corps known as the 5th Regiment, were better disciplined and had a military structure lacking in other formations. In Bolt Action the 'Green' rule seems just the ticket.

They were formed from volunteers from all parties and the first intake of 300 was selected from people who were fit, mostly aged 20-30, already had some military experience (they had served as conscripts etc), or otherwise knew their way around a gun. They received a week of intensive training, much of which was 'political' orientation, but involved some basic ground work with grenades, machine guns and tactics. Then it was off to the war...

As opposed to the "here's your rifle, the bolt works like this, you load it like this, you aim it like this and pull here, off you go" style used elsewhere in those first few weeks, that single week's worth of training apparently made quite a difference.

After the initial 'panic period', the training was extended and they started to form battalions instead of independent companies from late August.  

Their uniform initially (before changing to khaki at a later date) was the ubiquitous 'blue mono' (in several varieties of style), with army-issue cartridge pouches and a blanket roll. A 'gorillo' cap in blue, sometimes with but most often without, red trim and tassle, finished off the ensemble.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 10:13:32 AM by Arlequín »

Offline Happy Wanderer

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2013, 01:51:59 AM »
Hi Stanley,

Further to Arlequin's description, in my home grown SCW Bolt Action lists I rate the 5th regiment as below. I have given them a Highly Motivated rating as I have rated my troops in comparison to other SCW troops ( not WW2 troops), so I judge the commitment of the 5th regiment elements greater than standard Green troops.

The Highly Motivated rating I treat the same as the Stubborn rule in BA. My point system is slightly different than Bolt Action as well but the structure is the same. Random Air Support is a house rules- if you roll two 1s on a command test the Republican player get an immediate free airstike....here's hoping he's not a Rookie and ends up brassing your own troops up!!!

Happy Wanderer


COMMUNIST 5TH REGIMENT MILITIA INFANTRY SQUAD  
PCE Communist 5th Regiment militias  

Cost: Inexp Infantry 90pts or Reg Infantry 120pts  

Composition: 1 NCO and 8 men  

Weapons: Rifles  

Options:  
• Add up to 4 additional soldiers for +9pts (Inexp) or +12pts if (Regular) Steel Battalions  
• NCO can have a SMG instead of rifle for +3pts  
• May be Steel Battalion Shock Company taken as Shock Troops for +2pt per man  If Steel Battalion Shock Company up to three men may be armed with SMG instead of rifle for +3pts each  
• one soldier may have a Machine Rifle for +5pts, or an LMG for +20pts whereby another soldier becomes the loader; or  If Steel Battalion Shock Company, for every two squads, one soldier may have a Hotchkiss M22 as a Machine Rifle for +5pts, or as an LMG for +20pts whereby another soldier becomes the loader  
• An entire squad may be taken as Dinametiros for +2pts per figure  
• May be given 1 Truck per squad at the normal cost of the vehicle  

Special Rules:  
• Highly Motivated  
• Random Air Support  
• Green (unless Regular)  
• Shock Troops (if taken)  
• Dinametiros (if taken)  

« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 07:20:37 AM by Happy Wanderer »

Offline H.M.Stanley

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 08:24:39 AM »
Thanks chap

Offline H.M.Stanley

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 01:18:54 PM »
Just fooling with the lists. I'd have to add in some Brigaders to make up those large Militia units as i only have about 30 Militia

Comes to about 600pts each give or take a couple. I could whack that up to 1000pts when i paint up the Guardia Civil & add Communists

Militia (Inexperienced) with Asalto (Regular)

•   Militia:
•   Delegado – Jefe de Seccion*
•   Teniente (Regular)
•   Escuadra – NCO + 14 men*[forms part of this unit]
•   Escuadra – NCO + 14 men
•   Escuadra – NCO + 14 men incl LMG (and loader)
•   Asalto:
•   Sargento**
•   NCO and 7 Riflemen**[forms part of this unit]
•   NCO and 7 Riflemen
•   “Bilbao” Armoured Car

La Legion (Veterans)

•   Teniente and 2 riflemen
•   Escuadra – NCO with SMG and 7 Riflemen
•   Escuadra – NCO with SMG and 7 Riflemen
•   Escuadra – NCO with SMG and 7 Riflemen
•   MMG – NCO plus 2 men (and 2 x additional Rifleman)
•   MMG – NCO plus 2 men (and 2 x additional Rifleman)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 09:34:40 AM by H.M.Stanley »

Offline Happy Wanderer

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2013, 10:46:03 PM »
Stanley, we have found that about 750 pts in the SCW is equivalent to a 1000pts in WW2. The low cost and infantry heavy nature of the SCW means alot more foot sloggers and less 'tricky bits'.

Your Militia force has 10 dice in the bag and your legion 6. That will put the legion at a bit of a disadvantage due to their smaller dice. A point to consider.

Anther way to work around this might be to say that your Legion have as many dice in the bag as your militia does...just simply ignore the remaining Legion dice pulls once they's al activated. That way they are not at a command and control disadvantage....that might be worth a try. Dice numbers in the bag are important in BA.

Your force looks large enough to me for a good size clash.

Cheers

Happy W
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 01:49:34 AM by Happy Wanderer »

Offline Arlequín

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2013, 12:14:21 AM »
I don't know how well it would work, but you could go with the dice as they are, but ignore draws for the militia once all the Legion dice have been drawn (or just simply end the turn). That sort of handles the militias dodgy C&C and puts some pressure on the player to do what he can while he can.

I'm not sure whether I literally just thought that up, or have just related someone else's idea I've read somewhere...  :?

You could gain another dice for the Legion by going for squads of 6 figures... although that might make them a tad fragile maybe. Having said that 'Veteran' status does make them somewhat powerful, so might balance out.

It is true what HW says too, you get a lot for your points in the main.

:)

Offline H.M.Stanley

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2013, 07:12:00 AM »
Thanks chaps

I've played a fair amount of BA (the rules are ok - but that's another conversation) and have tried out, more or less, those lists before using vanilla BA rules

7 dice v 6 [Delegado and Sargento must join/are part of a specific unit - not the Teniente as i read it] does give the Republicans a slight advantage but i believe that the Militia, Veteran/Up and at Em rules help balance that out. I might thin out the Legion and get another unit (as you say, they'd be fragile).

I quite like the idea that the Militia/Asaltos stop drawing dice once all the Legion dice have been drawn. Might have to try that at some point although i don't think its needed for that game.

I agree with you that you get more bang for your buck with SCW/BA, or should that be less? Either way, i like it  :D
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 09:33:26 AM by H.M.Stanley »

Offline Arlequín

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Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2013, 10:27:48 AM »
The way I saw the Sargento and Delegados working was that, they float like any other officer, but their effects are confined to the squads they personally command, while officers effect all the units within their 'platoon'. An Asalto Sargento is almost certainly going to be ignored by militia and vice versa with regards to a Delegado. A delegado might even be ignored by militia of another squad.

The dice idea should be confined to the militia, the Asaltos are pretty much on a par with the regular army (which is perhaps understating things even).

Unit size is an issue certainly, the large units of militia, in relation to the smaller regular 'squads' of the military, have much more staying power under the rules, when the reality was somewhat different (for the first couple of months anyway). I haven't really looked for a solution for this so far, but there is bound to be one...

:)    
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 10:30:38 AM by Arlequín »

Offline H.M.Stanley

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Re: Bolt Action for the SCW
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2013, 11:10:49 AM »
Hi. My take - the Delegado commands all Militia units (unless you're mixing FAI/CNT, Communists, POUM etc which is a whole other ball game  :D) but its a command and control thing. If he's "fixed" to a specific unit its more difficult to give orders elsewhere [ok, let's say he can't]

By making him a separate unit, you throw another die into the pot which makes the Militia better unless you start to alter game mechanics in the way you both suggest (re numbers of order dice)

I don't see an Asalto Sargento having difficulty ordering one or more units of Asalto TBH. Has any trooper ever tried ignoring a Sargeant, anywhere?  lol But again, i'd fix him to a unit, rather than let him roam, and lose the extra die - allow other Asalto units to use his +1 Leadership though if in range.

Those big units of Militia may well be a problem against even small Veteran units. Thoughts on only allowing ,say, only 50% of unit to shoot?

Cheers,

James
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 11:17:59 AM by H.M.Stanley »

 

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