Generic ruleset suggestions ?

[melquisedeq]

Hi!

I've been unsuccessfully looking for a ruleset with which to burn away my spare time, a mix-and-match game that allows me to put my psychotically diverse collection of minis to good use without having to adopt several different systems for every theme/genre variation I feel like playing at any given moment.
Given its diverse userbase, LA seems the perfect place to gather suggestion of games with the following particularities:

- Generic, not limited to a brand or line of miniatures, and model scale in the 25-32mm region (28mm being the majority of my collection) -

- Individual stats per character / fig, with perhaps options for small groups of a handful of similarly statted guys (large scale warfare not really needed) -

- A point-buy formula for abilities/skills/equipment, instead of army lists (though an incredibly diverse army list with plenty of extra abilities and gear to buy could also work) -

- Cross-genre, something I could use to mash-up or switch seamlessly between sci-fi, modern, post-apoc, fantasy, pulp, etc. -

- Of moderate complexity and corresponding tactical depth. I'd rather spend half a day building my warband for a two hour game, than have a bland game where all units are basically the same but with different models -

- Ideally, something that I could try before buying... -

I should probably add that I'm more of a roleplayer really, and the "vibe" I'm after is something like a tabletop RPG where each player controls an opposing party instead of a single character. But because it would lack an impartial moderator and would be competitive in nature rather than cooperative, an extra focus would have to be placed in the character/unit creation system - not just leaving it to fair-play and "as long as you're having fun". I think you get the picture...

Games Workshop stuff (Mordheim / Necromunda) is too restrictive in its list-based format.
Song of Blades and Heroes is waaay too simplistic, I like statblocks.   But the spirit is there.
Savage Worlds Showdown is pretty good, but the ability / equipment lists are too small. It's the closest I found, though.
Dungeons and Dragons Minis would be acceptable, I guess, if it had a balanced formula for creating cards / stats.

Those are the ones I can think off the top of my head... is it obvious that I'm not an expert on wargames? 

So... any suggestions?

Sorry for the verborrhea, and thanks in advance for your replies.

[Lowtardog]

Combat zone would work for sci fi post apoc, EM4 sell it and there are a tonne load of mods and additional inof on their website which will give you an idea about the game

http://combatzonechronicles.net/

Cheap as chips too

[H.M.Stanley]

Hi. Was thinking about using Pulp Alley rules with Judge Dredd/Angel Gang figures

[BigB]

Yes, this is a medieval/fantasy base set, but I think it would adapt to Sci-Fi.   I also recommend Vor:

My game group is working on a free ruleset we call Garrison Skirmish.  (ties into our group name).  It's starting to hit heavy playtesting, but I think you can get most of what you need from it based on what I already have on the site here: http://skirmish.ocalagarrison.org/

The game is designed around a warband of about 10-20 figs per side.  Pretty much a mordheim/saga game size with a skirmish feel.  We have tried it all the way up through Wild West so far.  

The scenarios we have put up are in design now and will be finalized over the next couple months.  We are busy prepping for a con in Orlando, FL so things are on hold until after the con.

-BigB
http://www.ocalagarrison.org/

[mcfonz]

http://thegamesshed.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/fubar-one-page-sfmodern-rules/

Fubar?

Perhaps too simple?

[PatrickWR]

I'll recommend In The Emperor's Name. It is a free, fan-made ruleset, originally developed for skirmish gaming in the Warhammer 40k universe, but it's easy to apply it to more generic, WYSIWYG figures. It has all the things you tick off in your list and plays well with groups of like 6 to 15 figures per side. If you can get past the 40k/GW imagery plastered all over the rulebook, you'll find a very nice, serviceable ruleset inside.

Linky: http://iten-game.org/

[n815e]

I have a similar set of needs for sci-fi skirmishing and I've gone with Supersystem.  On the surface it is a super hero game system, but it's actually so versatile it would make a good game for any sci-fi type of skirmish.  I'm using it for near-future/cyberpunk.  I've seen it used to play Warhammer 40K. 

Generic, not limited to a brand or line of miniatures, and model scale in the 25-32mm region (28mm being the majority of my collection)

Supersystem is customizable to fit any models.

Individual stats per character / fig, with perhaps options for small groups of a handful of similarly statted guys (large scale warfare not really needed)

Supersystem has characters that you can create with any attributes and abilities that you want, to make each model unique.  Lesser characters are grouped into units called Henchmen composed of 5-20 identical guys, while stronger characters are individuals.  The game's character creation system is very robust and flexible; it takes up a large part of the rule book, giving players a lot of options for how characters are created.

A point-buy formula for abilities/skills/equipment, instead of army lists

It uses a point system to create characters.  Has rules to create vehicles.

Cross-genre, something I could use to mash-up or switch seamlessly between sci-fi, modern, post-apoc, fantasy, pulp, etc.

As I stated above, it's a super hero game, but it's so open that you can use it for any genre.

Of moderate complexity and corresponding tactical depth.

The underlying game system is easy to grasp, but gameplay and character creation provide a plethora of options that keep it interesting.  Models can even pick up pieces of terrain to use as weapons.

[Dr.Falkenhayn]

Have a Look at Nuclear Renaissance from Ramshackle Games,free PDF Download,its exactly what you're looking for 

http://www.ramshacklegames.co.uk/nuclear/downloads.html

[aliensurfer]

Shockforce. has the stats, basic as they are but lots of skills, complete points based system for creating your own races/units/weapons/abilities etc.

[pauld]

I think this has all you need - Vortex - not well known but I have played a few games and it seems to cover all you are looking for

free starter edition here

http://www.unifiedtheorygames.com/

[Onebigriver]

Savage Worlds Showdown ticks some of your boxes:

http://www.peginc.com/pdfstore/savage-worlds-showdown/

Have a look at these too:

http://www.skankgame.com/Downloads.html

[melquisedeq]

First of all, thank you for each and every reply. I know I had thanked in advance, but still... 

I've looked into all of your suggestions:

 - Lowtardog -

Combat Zone Chronicles info is very sparse, regarding the rules themselves, despite the vivrant article community around it. I found a summary by following the old page links, but it makes no mention of character creation (the main factor in my decision).

 - H.M.Stanley -

Couldn't find any rules anywhere. Not even a company summary to give an idea of the mechanics, let alone a "free starter set".

 - BigB -

Garrison Skirmish has a lot of appeal to the Mordheim fan in me, but in this particular instance that is actually a hindrance. Mordheim design keeps character building options very limited on purpose, to avoid balance issues (which it seems it did not, in the end). Yours is an improvement over it, but still shows too much of its legacy. Great work, though!

 - McFonz -

FUBAR I already knew... and yes, too simple. There's no font size small enough for a one-page system to fit just the character options I am hoping to find 

 - PatrickWR -

Similar to BigB's Garrison Skirmish suggestion: too GW-y. I'm not anti-GW, or at least no more than the next discerning consumer, but in this particular instance my wants don't match up to that style.

 - n815e -

From SuperSystem's official page's description plus a youtube review I found, it sounds incredibly cool and the feel of the game seems to be very much what I'm after... but no free rules sample, especially of character creation, does kind of break the deal for me.

 - Dr.Falkenhayn -

Nuclear Renaissance has a very appealling tactical depth, but character creation is once more somewhat lacking, probably because of the rather limited statblock.

 - aliensurfer -

Shock Force seems to be forever lost to the ether, buried deep in the underground catacombs of the internet. There are some mentions of it, as well as its successor, but all actual download links are dead.

 - PaulD -

You, sir, won the first round... Vortex seems to be AWESOME and very very much in line with what I'm after. It is not, however the cheapest of the bunch. I would love to have a look at the character builder (absent from the free rules) to have a better understanding of its potential.

 - Onebigriver -

Savage Worlds Showdown is pretty sweet, like it a lot despite considering it "light", but as I had mentioned in the original post its character option lists are tiny, there's only a very basic generic list from the rulebook plus a handful other entries from each of the available Showdown scenarios.

Warlord 2085, in my opinion, has an uninteresting character creation that kind of invalidates the rest of the ruleset.


So it seems Vortex may just be the thing, though I am also intrigued by SuperSystem. Does anyone have experience with either? Including character options and equipment lists?

[tnjrp]

Well, despite the seemingly somewhat tough audience, I do belive it's time to trot out my hobby horse again

Let's see how Defiance (http://www.mj12games.com/defiance/) works with your specifications.

- Generic, not limited to a brand or line of miniatures, and model scale in the 25-32mm region

Check. Works with 15mm scale single basing out-of-the-box too.

Individual stats per character / fig, with perhaps options for small groups of a handful of similarly statted guys (large scale warfare not really needed)

Not really. Obviously every trooper has individual statistics (it's not a squad-on-squad game) but it's fairly difficult to field a force were every single trooper is completely unique. There are some unofficial suggestions by the author as to how to go about that on Majestic 12 Games forum tho. An RPG it still isn't however. For one, it lack campaign system out-of-the-box and there isn't even an unofficial one that would have receive the author's blessing.

A point-buy formula for abilities/skills/equipment, instead of army lists (though an incredibly diverse army list with plenty of extra abilities and gear to buy could also work)

Check, am tempted to say "double check". Perhaps the most solid generation tool on the market is available in the full version ("demo version" means simply "core rules" so no generator there). May present a bit steep learning curve tho due to the lack of a ready-made software aids. The same could be said about the rules too, to an extent -- it's not a "Warhammer 40.000, only better" but a bird of it's own color.

Cross-genre, something I could use to mash-up or switch seamlessly between sci-fi, modern, post-apoc, fantasy, pulp, etc.

Half-check. Swords and sorcery is a bit problematic but anything where ranged weapons have a significant impact on the game is doable, so industrial fantasy @ WARMACHINE IMCO works (I've a done a force list for such an army). The author IIRC says the historical time period range is something like late-19th-century to space-operatic-future.

Of moderate complexity and corresponding tactical depth. I'd rather spend half a day building my warband for a two hour game, than have a bland game where all units are basically the same but with different models

This is a bit too much a matter of taste I think to really say if it applies or not. I do believe Defiance mechanics produce a game with at least tenuous ties to real world military tactics and combat outcomes. There is some complexity, but I don't feel the game tips over into being complicated. On the subject of all troops being the same, it's largely a matter of choice. There are a huge number of options available but obviously not an infinite number, so eventually you'll probably start recycling some ideas at least.

Ideally, something that I could try before buying...

Check. See link above. Sample force lists in various genres 4X here: http://heros.netai.net/html/DVG.html

There is also a link to my very long-winded review of the original edition of the game behind this last URL.

[n815e]

You are right that there is no 'free' version of Supersystem, but it's pretty inexpensive at $11.

The Superhero section of LAF has many topics on Supersystem that may give you more of an idea about it.
This thread shows what someone has done to use the system for Victorian horror/sci-fi:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=57420.0

[consectari]

Sounds like you are looking for the same game I am.  

I've collected 20+ free and inexpensive rulebooks without finding what I'm looking for.

Until I actually find it, I've been trying to combine my favorite elements from various games to build it myself.  Hopefully one day, I'll either find the game I'm looking for or end up with a mish mash that fits the bill.  You may want to consider combining elements from different games too.

So far, I've started with Necromunda.  I'm adding greater character diversity by borrowing from AE Bounty and other games.  I always thought the Necromunda skills were too complex and not useful enough.  I'm replacing them with the advantages from the various Chain Reaction rule sets.  I'm also changing it to an Action Point system.

The good thing about Necromunda, which most people dislike, is that close combat is just as powerful or more so than ranged combat.  This allows primitive tribals to be just as effective as armed gangers.  It's going to create a diverse system because I play in a setting where you might run into primitive tribals, mutated monsters, wasteland marauders, corporate military forces or cyberpunk gangs.

I hope you find what you're looking for, but if not, consider doing the mish mash like me.

Edit:
Here are the Shockforce/ War Engine rules if you want to take a look at them.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100304143146/http://www.warengine.darktortoise.com/index.php?title=Core_Rules_v2.1