Denizens of Azor: Man-Apes and more Man-Apes!

[Alxbates]

I agree. It's not worth the cost or the effort.its quite easy to convert the models to make them PG-13. Better to create more new models!

I like the way you think, sir!

[wargame_insomniac]

Sorry for the long-delayed reply - I lost power for a week due to a storm, and then my basement flooded!  I haven't been online much.

Sadly, tweaking sculpts & having new molds made is a prospect that would cost me at least $300, and probably more like $500, so I'm unlikely to do it unless there is a massive demand. 

Never say never, but, I don't see it happening any time soon.

As Wargame Insomniac says, though, it should be very simple to file the nipples off & then simply paint the entire torso between the belt and the collar as if it were cloth.

-Alex in Alaska

No worries Alex

Thanks for reply.

[chirine ba kal]

Um, I guess I'm a little baffled by the nudity issue. It's like with the Dark Fable Ancient Egyptians - people really did dress this way, back in the day. I certainly do understand the issues; I have 'underage' gamers in my group myself, and I do get concerned over the age/maturity issue. Alex, I don't mean to hijack this thread - I love these figures, and I am enjoying painting them.

Is this an issue we, as 'miniatures people', need to have a discussion about?

And I freely admit that there are some figures in my collection that just don't come out onto the table; the old Citadel 'captives', to be exact. I don't see a need for them in the game that I run - I got them in a bulk buy, decades ago - so they don't get used.

[Argonor]

Is this an issue we, as 'miniatures people', need to have a discussion about?

Absolutely not. Buy what you want, don't buy what you do not want.

[Ballardian]

Pretty much with you on this one Argonor - we're all capable of making judgements as to the 'appopriateness'  of a mini for the group we play in, blanket decisions, (on topics like this) tend to produce farcical results - wonderfully exemplared in the recent story of the sale of one of Modigliani's reclining nudes - US tv censored the image  (despite Modigliani not exactly being a naturalistic painter).

[chirine ba kal]

Thank you both for your comments - I agree with both of you. I guess that I'm just startled by what I've been seeing in some discussions, where 'political correctness' seems to be more important then historical reality.

And, of course, we're here in the world of the 'Pulps', where these tropes were the norm.

I'm just getting old, I think...

[Rhoderic]

If I may make an observation, it was never about political correctness in this case. It was about one person's need for "family friendly" miniatures, which IMO is a completely different issue.

Had it been about political correctness, the discussion would have concerned the possibility of nude or semi-nude female figures being objectifying of or demeaning toward women. That was never on the agenda in this thread. (And I'm not intending to put it on the agenda by bringing it up now, I'm just highlighting the distinction between political correctness and family-friendliness, for the purpose of showing that the former is not on the agenda).

While I agree that Alex would be wise to not spend all that money on producing a second set of figures with covered breasts, I also see what wargame_insomniac's problem was; no adult has a right to subject other people's children to themes of sexuality and nudity. It's not a problem that Alex can solve for him, but it's a problem he's having to deal with all the same, as a member of a wargaming club that includes children.

I apologise for veering this thread even more off-topic. I'll stop now.

[FramFramson]

If I may make an observation, it was never about political correctness in this case. It was about one person's need for "family friendly" miniatures, which IMO is a completely different issue.

Had it been about political correctness, the discussion would have concerned the possibility of nude or semi-nude female figures being objectifying of or demeaning toward women. That was never on the agenda in this thread. (And I'm not intending to put it on the agenda by bringing it up now, I'm just highlighting the distinction between political correctness and family-friendliness, for the purpose of showing that the former is not on the agenda).

While I agree that Alex would be wise to not spend all that money on producing a second set of figures with covered breasts, I also see what wargame_insomniac's problem was; no adult has a right to subject other people's children to themes of sexuality and nudity. It's not a problem that Alex can solve for him, but it's a problem he's having to deal with all the same, as a member of a wargaming club that includes children.

I apologise for veering this thread even more off-topic. I'll stop now.

No, that's fine and quite on point. An excellent way of putting it.

And now that that's done, we can move right along.

[chirine ba kal]

No, that's fine and quite on point. An excellent way of putting it.

And now that that's done, we can move right along.

Wholeheartedly agreed, and thank you both! Let's get on with some adventures!

[Alxbates]

Regarding the nudity comments, I've got some thoughts on the issue.

I've put a lot of thought into what direction to go with nudity in my Azor setting.  

Basically it comes down to, "I like it, and it's my setting, so I'm gonna do what I want."

I can come up with all sorts of justifications for it - it *is* historically accurate to the Minoan culture that Azor is loosely based on (and, also to a lesser extent, Mycenaean Greece and ancient Egypt).  It's also appropriate for the climate - Azor is a tropical place, and bronze age tropical peoples didn't tend to wear much in the way of clothing.  The male miniatures that I've released also don't wear much - the guards only wear slightly more than the priestesses, and the Jungle Lord and the sleazy merchant wear even less than they do.  There's also a long tradition of near or partial nudity in Pulp art, whether it's Tarzan or Doc Savage or Dejah Thoris or nearly anything Frazetta ever did, and as I'm a huge fan of that tradition, I'd like to continue to carry it on.

I do feel like a lot of that traditional pulp art is pretty demeaning to the women being pictured - they're almost always helpless, being rescued or in a subservient position.  So, I'm trying to make sure that any half-naked women that show up in Azor are depicted in strong or equally powerful positions.  It's not a perfect solution to the old problematic ways that women are depicted in so much pulp and fantasy art, but it's the way that I plan to go with it.

I like tough, badass women, I like Pulp art, I like Minoan Crete and ancient Greece and ancient Egypt, and I like boobs.  I don't think that those interests are mutually exclusive.  

That about covers my take on the topic... if anyone wants to talk more about it, I'd be happy to, but I think it'd be better off in a different thread.

So here's an (unfinished) illustration for my upcoming setting book, by the fantastic Regis Moulun, depicting some of the Lion Guards of Azor:



Tre Manor of Red Box games is currently sculpting the lions and their handlers.

[Alxbates]

 Hmmm... trying to delete this one, double-post.

[FramFramson]

Whoa, Tre Manor... nice!

[Rhoderic]

Alex, I think that's a very good way of putting it. I for one have confidence in your intentions and ability to do the right thing.

Also, that's an excellent piece of artwork.

[orc]

Amazing art work!!!!! 

I hope your kickstart become soon!!!!! I love your minis!!!!

[axabrax]

Well said! I concur with the entire sentiment 

Regarding the nudity comments, I've got some thoughts on the issue.

I've put a lot of thought into what direction to go with nudity in my Azor setting.  

Basically it comes down to, "I like it, and it's my setting, so I'm gonna do what I want."

I can come up with all sorts of justifications for it - it *is* historically accurate to the Minoan culture that Azor is loosely based on (and, also to a lesser extent, Mycenaean Greece and ancient Egypt).  It's also appropriate for the climate - Azor is a tropical place, and bronze age tropical peoples didn't tend to wear much in the way of clothing.  The male miniatures that I've released also don't wear much - the guards only wear slightly more than the priestesses, and the Jungle Lord and the sleazy merchant wear even less than they do.  There's also a long tradition of near or partial nudity in Pulp art, whether it's Tarzan or Doc Savage or Dejah Thoris or nearly anything Frazetta ever did, and as I'm a huge fan of that tradition, I'd like to continue to carry it on.

I do feel like a lot of that traditional pulp art is pretty demeaning to the women being pictured - they're almost always being rescued or in a subservient position.  So, I'm trying to make sure that any half-naked women that show up in Azor are depicted in strong or equally powerful positions.  It's not a perfect solution to the old problematic ways that women are depicted in so much pulp and fantasy art, but it's the way that I plan to go with it.

I like tough, badass women, I like Pulp art, I like Minoan Crete and ancient Greece and ancient Egypt, and I like boobs.  I don't think that those interests are mutually exclusive.  

That about covers my take on the topic... if anyone wants to talk more about it, I'd be happy to, but I think it'd be better off in a different thread.

So here's an (unfinished) illustration for my upcoming setting book, by the fantastic Regis Moulun, depicting some of the Lion Guards of Azor:



Tre Manor of Red Box games is currently sculpting the lions and their handlers.