Chinese Warlord Armies

[clyde85]

Greetings,

I'm not sure if I should be posting here or in the inter-war thread, but I have acquired over the years a fairly large Chinese warlord army. I've been collecting the odd pack from Copplestone Casting every now and again and I must have near 100 models in the collection by now (counting officers and HMG's and whatnot). I paint them up so that each company (about 3 officers and between 20 to 40 soldiers with an HMG, mortar or field gun) have a different paint scheme so they look different and can fight as allies or enemies depending on the scenario.

So my question is, what rule set do you folks feel would be the best way to represent the massive swirling battles of the Warlord era? I'm curious to find a good one before I begin with the next phase of expansion for the army, which will see the inclusion of Pulp Figures "Gangs of Yangzee Station"  and possibly scarab miniatures as well.

Thanks in advance
Clyde    


p.s. I will try to include some pictures of the army at some point later.

[H.M.Stanley]

You're going to be pushing on an open door with this one ... 

Setting the East Ablaze

[Phil Robinson]

You're going to be pushing on an open door with this one ... 

Setting the East Ablaze

Seconded.

Or Triumph and Tragedy of course

[clyde85]

You're going to be pushing on an open door with this one ... 

Setting the East Ablaze

Is this really a good option? My only real experience with this theater is the BoB lists for Contemtible Little Armies. It seems like the game is set up with a greater focus on the RCW, with the Chinese warlords just being an after thought. I can't speak for Setting the East Ablaze but I worry that it might have the same problem.   

[H.M.Stanley]

I have WK Chinese army too. Works for me.

[coggon]

Depends on what you are doing, and what you are trying to accomplish, doesn't it? The Contemptible Little Armies Back of Beyond supplement is a great place to start for ideas for army lists and troop types, but I use it as more of a guideline, and totally ignore the points thing.  And Setting the East Ablaze suggests regulars in groups of ten, and irregulars in groups of 20, so there' plenty of opportunity to bulk up those units of peasants, students, bandits etc.

Are you going to do warlord vs, warlord, or warlord vs somebody else?  If you are going to do 60 or less figures per side, I might suggest TFL's "Through the Mud and Blood".  And possibly the "Stout Hearts" supplement.  Nothing on the Chinese per se, but it does give a little more insight into non professional armies.

If you are going to do larger games on a larger table, then Setting The East Ablaze works well (at least for me, but I am huge fanboi  of the rules)

And if it's interwarlord fighting, there's a book on One-Arm Sutton that has a great recap of a fight between warlords over a munitions factory-HIGHLY recommended

[twrchtrwyth]

Triumph and Tragedy.

[Wirelizard]

I'll second coggon's endorsement of "Through the Mud and the Blood" from TFL. Nominally a WW1 set but very flexible and easy to adapt to other theatres; I've done a lot of Russian Civil War gaming with it.

My brother has a small force of warlord Chinese he claims he's going to finish one of these years; when a few of them appeared in a Mud & Blood-powered BoB matchup I created a set of M&B cards for the warlord Chinese that is available as a PDF on my website.

[clyde85]

Are you going to do warlord vs, warlord, or warlord vs somebody else?  If you are going to do 60 or less figures per side, I might suggest TFL's "Through the Mud and Blood".  And possibly the "Stout Hearts" supplement.  Nothing on the Chinese per se, but it does give a little more insight into non professional armies.

If you are going to do larger games on a larger table, then Setting The East Ablaze works well (at least for me, but I am huge fanboi  of the rules)

And if it's interwarlord fighting, there's a book on One-Arm Sutton that has a great recap of a fight between warlords over a munitions factory-HIGHLY recommended

I was looking to do more Central Chinese warlord on warlord action. One of the problems I have with the BoB lists is that its meant to represent the more western warlords of Xinjiang and Qinghai, which were different from the ones fighting over central China in the 20's. The ones like the Beiyang, Fengtian or Zhili factions of Wu Peifu, Zhang Zoulin and Cao Kun had access to more troops and better weapons because of their ability to control the tax revenue in places like Beijing and Shanghai, and I feel like the BoB lists do not due them justice. I will try to find that book because it sounds awesome, thanks for the recommend! 

I have WK Chinese army too. Works for me.

I'm not quite sure what "WK" is for? I'm willing to give Setting the East Ablaze a try, I just wanted to air my concerns and get some feedback from the community before jumping in, but it sounds good from what i've read so far.

I'll second coggon's endorsement of "Through the Mud and the Blood" from TFL. Nominally a WW1 set but very flexible and easy to adapt to other theatres; I've done a lot of Russian Civil War gaming with it.
a set of M&B cards for the warlord Chinese that is available as a PDF on my website.

Cool cards and thanks for the recommendation, I'll have to check the games out. 
 

[H.M.Stanley]

Sorry, that should have said WL ("Warlord") Chinese ...

Any rules/army list can be tweaked of course to take account of your understanding of a particular force.

I think the rules mentioned do as good a job as any if not better, depending on the type of game you want

[coggon]

The book I mentioned earlier is called "General of fortune; the story of One-Arm Sutton" by Charles Drage.  Great story that's so strange one could not make it up.  It's not entirely focused on China, but still gives a good flavor of the times.  Highly recommended.

As to the differences in types of warlord armies by region, I must confess my total and complete ignorance, but would love to learn more

[Altius]

I've played my Chinese warlord army using Setting the East Ablaze, and those are good rules.

I've also used Blitzkrieg Commander with army lists that I put together myself. I use Blitzkrieg Commander/Cold War Commander as my "go-to" rule set for a wide range of 20th Century conflicts. I've found its flexible and gives me a good game.

[clyde85]

I just got my copy of Setting the East Ablaze and am reading through it now. I must say I'm already impressed after just reading the principles sections especially the line "If you are a 'gamey gamer', go do something else. These rules are not for you". Awesome!

The only downside I can see so far is that I think that means that no one in my gaming group is going to want to play  (story of my life, I have dozen of games and all the gamers I know would rather play warmahorders or something from GW).

As to the differences in types of warlord armies by region, I must confess my total and complete ignorance, but would love to learn more

 

It's really quite interesting when you look into it. For instance, in the early part of the Warlord era the Guangxi clique was led by Lu Rongting who was ethnically from the Zhuang minority and his armies were made up mostly of Zhuang people, but were little better than bandits and irregulars. After his defeat in the second Guangxi-Guangdong in 1924, Lu's armies disintegrated and he lost power to a promising young battalion commander named Li Zongren and his associates Bai Chongxi and Huang Shaohong. Li and Bai went on to become the new (and far better known) face of the Guangxi clique, train a modern, professional army (which fought with distinction well into the second Sino-Japanese war, defeating the Japanese at the battle of Taierzhuang and being regarded as elite troops by the Nationalists) and turn Gunagxi in to a "model province".

There are tones of other stories like this that I would love to play out on the tabletop.   

[Ignatieff]

Keep the faith and they will come!!!

[Stu]

Looks like my next purchase will be rules and not figures. 'Setting the East Ablaze' seems to get good reviews so my WL Chinese are going to have to wait for their fire support.