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Author Topic: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources  (Read 54049 times)

former user

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2014, 05:10:57 AM »
THX - the last one is a St. Chamond 155

Offline Etranger

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2014, 06:19:38 AM »
Different manufacturer, same role!  :)
"It's only a flesh wound...."

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2014, 06:31:41 AM »
of course - I wonder whether the ammo matched both tubes

Offline Arlequín

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2014, 07:38:12 AM »
I would imagine not. Except for the present day, it's quite rare for artillery and similar weapons to use the same shell, or should I say the same shell case at least. Some weapons can handle more charge than others, while slight differences in how each weapon 'fires' means different designs are needed. They are like rifles, you would not expect to fire a standard 7.92mm Mauser round from a Sturmgewehr 44, despite both being 7.92mm. 
The science of war at the beginning of a war is a strict science like astronomy, but that at the end of the war it is more like astrology. - Rebecca West

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2014, 08:06:54 AM »
yes and no  ;)
While I would fully agree when it comes to WW1, the standardization to the 7.5mm rifle ammo in the 30ies means that the french army at least attempted this concept. I would be not surprised if artillery shells separate from the charge having the same calibre could be fired from different tubes, with different charges acounting for the different performance

but anyway, this is as far the details are important for wargaming, at least to me  ;)
given my previous experiences with army bulding, more than one gun of this calibre on the 28mm tabletop would be rather insane.
At the moment, I can not even imagine what to use to represent it.

Offline Etranger

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2014, 11:21:06 AM »
One of the advantages of 15mm is that I've got a battery each of GPF and the C17S!  ;)

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2014, 11:53:04 AM »
of course, it is very tempting, but it also depends on what you want to game, tactically

what puzzles me more is that I have even seen small 5cm mortars and none in 28mm....
and the VB for WW2, which is.... outdated?

miniature wargaming is sometimes a strange realm

Offline lou passejaire

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2014, 12:00:20 PM »
@ etranger :
in 1939-1940, a lot of the french artillery was still horse drawn ( even the 25mm AT gun ), so the 75 , 105 and 155 mm guns can be found with tyres for the "RATT" ( motorized artillery regiment ) and wooden wheels for the other regiments .

the rule was :
motorized artillery regiments for the motorized infantry division ...

but some infantry division had motorized artillery regiments.

Nothing is easy  ;)
Dans les situations critiques, quand on parle avec un calibre bien en pogne, personne ne conteste plus. Y'a des statistiques là-dessus.

Offline Arlequín

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2014, 02:29:24 PM »
I'm sure I've seen photos of 'motorised units' in transition, where they have loaded the wooden-wheeled gun onto the truck portee-style, presumably until such time as new carriages were available.

what puzzles me more is that I have even seen small 5cm mortars and none in 28mm....
and the VB for WW2, which is.... outdated?

The French planned to replace the VB with a new light mortar, pretty much after Spanish practice (which was unusual as it was usually the other way around), but as far as I know this had not been begun by 1940, so the VB soldiered on.

There was the Lafitte Mle.25 60mm mortar, which was technically a 'medium mortar', but I have no idea if any units had this. I imagine that they all had the Brandt Mle.27/31 81mm. 

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2014, 03:02:19 PM »
here:
http://deuxiemeguerremondia.forumactif.com/t3831-armement-et-organisation-de-l-infanterie-francaise-en-1940
is the source -
 it appears the VB was to be replaced with another rifled fired GL, and a small half group of 4 attached to the section command would have one 5 cm mortar.
one 6 cm mortar (later 2) was a company asset apparently
my source claims this organisation was installed in 1940, however there is a suspicious lack of period photos - maybe they were in the middle of and then abandoned it
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 03:08:02 PM by bedwyr »

Offline lou passejaire

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2014, 03:56:37 PM »
this organisation was planned to be in service from august 1940 ... and in august 1940 ... ehhhhmmmm  :'(
the main goal was to have a grenade launcher  able to be used with the new AT grenade ... it was just a bit late ...

Arlequin :
the goal was to tow all the artillery ... some regiments were issued trucks but keept their old gun carriage, so had to use the "train rouleur" or to load on trucks ...
but this was mostly used between the early 30's and 1939 .
in 1939, all the motorized artillery regiments were issued with 75 mod 38 with tyres .

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2014, 04:05:10 PM »
this organisation was planned to be in service from august 1940 ... and in august 1940 ... ehhhhmmmm  :'(
OK, so VB in use, no 50mm, no 60mm?

Offline lou passejaire

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2014, 07:30:37 PM »
1x 60mm mortar in each company command group

the 50mm Mle 1937 grenade launcher ( and not mortar because of the shorter range ) :

less than 3000 where produced by june 1940 , but quite no grenades , so it saw action as 5cm Granatenwerfer 203(f) in other hands ...


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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2014, 11:55:08 PM »
that's interesting
AT guns and infantry guns were used at batallion support level then?

Offline lou passejaire

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Re: The French Army in the early 20th century - wargaming resources
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2014, 12:10:50 AM »
only AT 25mm guns , at bataillon level and at regiment level
no other artillery type

 

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