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Author Topic: Round of Fire  (Read 32758 times)

Offline Sangennaru

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2014, 07:49:20 AM »
You did it right, yes :)

My opinion:
The initiative wheel is an amazing.  I am a huge fan of uncertainty in combat, I hate I-go U-go.  Up until now, my two favorite rulesets were the Songs of... series (you gamble on how much action to take) and Chain of Command (you get varying activation options and have to decide what to do).  This activation sequence is right in the mix, I can't decide which is best.  SoBH is easiest to teach, this would be great in a con-type game.  I'm picturing a big wheel with magnets for each unit...

The hit dice concept requires a ton of dice, which is not one of my favorite concepts.  I love the first half, not so sure about the second.

About the combat mechanics: i agree that there are lots of dice to roll, which can be frustrating. On the other side, allows you to roll all the unit together and that speeds up the game a lot.
I wanted to remove the two dice (roll to hit - roll to kill/wound) and that seemed a good option.
A great solution would be to GREY OUT the 1, 2, 3 from the dice, so you will only see the 6 5 4, which is definitely faster.

Anyways, if you have some suggestions about changing the mechanism i'm open!

And i'm really happy you liked the wheel activation ^_^

BTW; yesterday we had our first Vassal game!


Offline Golgotha

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2014, 09:50:59 AM »
Started play testing the rules but got side tracked - sorry...

I did truly love the wheel concept but converted it as follows:

1 wheel out of 10 rather than 8 twice. Then each segment I thought of as representing a second or 2 - thus a turn was 10 to 20 seconds of real time.  Then inverted the initiative so 10 being the first to go and highest and 1 being the slowest or last to go. Also then substituted d8 for d10 so a unit would role its initiative on a d10, for example: Unit A rolls a 10 they are the only unit to do so and thus act first, they want to move this costs 4 and 10 minus 4 is 6. So when the wheel comes round to 6 they would then be able to spend action points again. So lets imagine they move again this then leaves 2 and so on and so forth till all units having acted, some of them multiple times. A unit could obviously choose not to spend points. Indeed instead of overwatch a unit on a high initiative could possibly keep its points and then choose to act in the enemies initiative the problem being players then become to nervous to act when a unit is around with a high initiative. The question no doubt then is what can one do with 1s and 2s - well if you spend 1 point then you can move 1 as opposed to spending 4 and moving 4, this system thus requires some tweaking of the action costs/points - but started working well. Will try your system more fully but did find this new wheel fun. 2 units with same initiative example 10 would write orders and then move simultaneously... or some such.

By the way I used epic GW marines in the play test and skirmishing with such small figures was also fun - board being roughly foot squared and cm for movement/actions. Stats wise I also differentiated units by class so an elite unit might get a plus 1 to its initial initiative role whereas a green unit might get a minus 1 to initiative. Have found initiative as a stat in wargaming in the past to be a very effective way to create more differences between units other then the usual hits, weapons, skill, armour and morale types etc.

Offline Sangennaru

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2014, 11:48:16 AM »
1 wheel out of 10 rather than 8 twice. Then each segment I thought of as representing a second or 2 - thus a turn was 10 to 20 seconds of real time.  Then inverted the initiative so 10 being the first to go and highest and 1 being the slowest or last to go. Also then substituted d8 for d10 so a unit would role its initiative on a d10, for example: Unit A rolls a 10 they are the only unit to do so and thus act first, they want to move this costs 4 and 10 minus 4 is 6. So when the wheel comes round to 6 they would then be able to spend action points again. So lets imagine they move again this then leaves 2 and so on and so forth till all units having acted, some of them multiple times. A unit could obviously choose not to spend points. Indeed instead of overwatch a unit on a high initiative could possibly keep its points and then choose to act in the enemies initiative the problem being players then become to nervous to act when a unit is around with a high initiative. The question no doubt then is what can one do with 1s and 2s - well if you spend 1 point then you can move 1 as opposed to spending 4 and moving 4, this system thus requires some tweaking of the action costs/points - but started working well. Will try your system more fully but did find this new wheel fun. 2 units with same initiative example 10 would write orders and then move simultaneously... or some such.

Waaaait: first things first.

- changing from 8 to 10 is absolutely the same. The initiative is rolled only at the BEGINNING of the game, after that the whole concept of turn is forgotten, and you can use as many segments as you like in the wheel - you could even use a linear turntracker, quite long though.

- The mechanism you described is no different from what is described in the rules: each action has a cost, and moves you forward in the wheel. There's no turns, just movements forward.

- Overwatch is not clear in the rules yet, but basically you just move forward of some steps (you decide), declaring an action up to certain conditions. And, of course, you can't do two overwatches in a row, otherwise people will do only 1-step overwatches, which is  stupid.

- The short movements cost MUCH more than long ones compared to the distance. Therefore people will NOT do short steps, otherwise they'll move slower.

- When you arrive in a section that is already occupied, you place your token in the section closer to the center, then units are activated from the outer one.


once again, i suspect that you roll initiative each round. but, once again, initiative is rolled only at the beginning of the game, there's no turns! The bonuses and maluses on initiative are shown in the unit rosters, since the same actions for different units cost differently.

cheers
Jack

Offline sespe

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2014, 04:38:09 PM »
Here's an idea for a unit trait:
Gung-ho / fanatic - ignore 1 suppress bump up the wheel when taking casualties.

Offline Sangennaru

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2014, 09:39:34 PM »
Here's an idea for a unit trait:
Gung-ho / fanatic - ignore 1 suppress bump up the wheel when taking casualties.

That's a good one, thanks!

anyways, i thought about the problem of the load-o-dice roll, and i will try to adapt the rules so each man will roll against a specific target individually, using a slightly higher number of dice (from 1-2-3 to 2-3-4, maybe) and keeping really similar mechanics, but with an additional parameter for the defending unit, which is the number of successes you need to achieve to kill it (for standard units it could be 2, with 1 there's no kill but the suppression is applied just as if there was a kill)

This will resolve any separation between main weapons and support weapons, and also any ambiguity in the "covers" section. Of course that means that the shooting phase requires a sligtly longer time.

I'll keep everyone updated!

Offline Sangennaru

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2014, 08:37:10 PM »
Hi Everyone!

A little update, Version 0.4 is now Live on Google Docs!

EDIT: Link removed as obsolete.

changelog:
Quote
0.4
reduced the cohesion radius with the fireteam leader to 1, added cohesion between fireteams.
changed the “targeting the whole unit” rule. Now all the fireteams leaders must be within range.
Added the assault with suppression fire rule.
Changed unit stats: principally tweaking the “suppressed” ability.
Adapted “unit spread X” and added “fireteam spread X” ability.
Added “Waiting” rule
Added “Overwatch” rule. Finally!
Clarified the actions declarations for the fireteams of a unit.
Added “Strong Nerves”, “Intimidating” and “Low Profile” abilities.
added “Find Cover!” rule

0.3
Removed the gruntz-based action examples table: that was obsolete.
Changed the Combat system entirely, migrating from the unit firing to the single figure firing.
Removed some obsolete notes in the Combat section. Seriously, you should re-read that part entirely.
Heavy covers can be pierced by heavy AP weapons, and thus must be considered as light covers. AP points are subtracted when calculating the defender dice.
Added partial cover.
Clarified the killing part.
Changed the unit stats, reorganizing them in Fireteams.
Pimped the heroes and special units.
Added “special weapon” clarification
Added “weapon expert” ability
Added “move and shoot” ability
Added “individual shooters” ability

0.2
added the partial cover rules.
set the minimum defender dice to 3.
added one more example for the opposed combat roll.
Assault ability clarifications.
Suppression clarifications.
Added “targeting whole units” clarifications.
Added “terrain expert” skill.
Slightly modified units stats and abilities.
Clarified differences between Boost and Battlecry.

A little problem now: I REALLY need a name! And you LAFers have always been my primary source of inspiration!

...pretty please?  ??? ???

cheers
Jack
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:02:35 PM by Sangennaru »

Offline freewargamesrules

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2014, 11:00:56 AM »
Wheel of Fortune
Wheel of Fire
Combat Wheel
Battle Wheel
Wheel of Time
Time Wheel
The Wheel Keeps Turning
Beat The Clock
Clock of Fortune
Battle Clock

...how's that for starters!

Offline Sangennaru

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2014, 12:01:09 PM »
Wheel of Fortune
Wheel of Fire
Combat Wheel
Battle Wheel
Wheel of Time
Time Wheel
The Wheel Keeps Turning
Beat The Clock
Clock of Fortune
Battle Clock

...how's that for starters!


that's a GREAT start!  :D Keep them coming! :D

Any feeling about the game itself, anyways? I had a few more matches, i might release the 0.5 soon-ish, although i'm now working more on some scenery projects, mostly posting on my facebook page https://www.facebook.com/thelazyforger .

Cheers
Jack

Offline freewargamesrules

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2014, 08:35:48 PM »
I like the idea of the Rondel when I saw it in a boardgame a few years ago I thought about using it in a set of miniature rules but never got round to it.

Another alternative you could use is place a numbered marker behind each unit (small dice). Once activate just increase the number (If using 16 then it reverts back to 1 again). Then keep calling the numbers out in sequence.

Offline Sangennaru

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2014, 08:44:38 AM »
Another alternative you could use is place a numbered marker behind each unit (small dice). Once activate just increase the number (If using 16 then it reverts back to 1 again). Then keep calling the numbers out in sequence.

well, that looks extremely elaborated, for the very same result! The wheel works really well now, splitting the counting on the table seems complicated! >__<

Cheers
Jack

Offline Sangennaru

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2014, 03:57:35 PM »
Just out of curiosity: Do you LAFers know if "Round of Fire" is taken by any other wargame around?

It has the words play and the round double meaning... what do you think about that one?

thanks
Jack

Offline Mr. Peabody

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2014, 05:02:47 PM »
Jack,

I think you want two names. First a catchy name for the game and the second would be a good solid name for the clock-like initiative mechanic.

I suspect the initiative mechanic could lend itself to a variety of settings, so give it a name and allow it to be portable. At the very least, giving it an identity helps to draw attention to this important aspect of the game, and while perhaps a bit gimmicky, it's fair and helps folk focus on why your game is different.

Making the name of the game serve both purposes is both challenging and limiting.

Just my 2cents.
Television is rather a frightening business. But I get all the relaxation I want from my collection of model soldiers. P. Cushing
Peabody Here!

Offline Sangennaru

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2014, 05:10:02 PM »
Jack,

I think you want two names. First a catchy name for the game and the second would be a good solid name for the clock-like initiative mechanic.

I suspect the initiative mechanic could lend itself to a variety of settings, so give it a name and allow it to be portable. At the very least, giving it an identity helps to draw attention to this important aspect of the game, and while perhaps a bit gimmicky, it's fair and helps folk focus on why your game is different.

Making the name of the game serve both purposes is both challenging and limiting.

Just my 2cents.

You are perfectly right sir.

However, i feel that the round wheel works well only for fire weapons games (not melee and arrows) since the time pacing is less important for a big brawl.
So, "Round of Fire" can be used from muskets to laser weapons, no?

Just as I did for Duel of Honour: Zanshin, that as you said has a combat mechanic that is independent from the setting itself.

SO: for the game mechanics, do you have any suggestions?
For the catchy name for the scifi, that's kinda easier, imho.

Offline Sangennaru

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2014, 11:59:54 PM »
For now i've to go for "Round of fire"... but i'ts subject to changes =)

Meanwhile, i tried to do a mock-up for the cards. Being confident with NanDeck, i'll prepare a procedural script to create the cards from a spreadsheet, but for now... just to see if everything fits inside.



how's that? too dense?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 12:07:21 AM by Sangennaru »

Offline Mr. Peabody

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Re: Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules *AAR*
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2014, 04:31:37 AM »
I like the simplicity and clean lines of the card. But perhaps the weapon information could be communicated with fewer words and bigger text.

What would the dimensions of the card be? If these are intended to be held like a hand of playing cards, some of the text might be a bit small.

 

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