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Author Topic: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...  (Read 19611 times)

Offline Admiral Benbow

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The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« on: September 11, 2008, 04:30:58 PM »
This is an eighties miniature from Citadel/GW from my collection on it's way to disintegration due to lead disease ...  :'(



After buying the miniature shortly after seeing the advert in White Dwarf, it went into my growing collection of dwarves and was stored among his brothers in a large drawer. Some months later I had some more "scottish"-looking dwarves in my collection and decided to go for a "clan"-regiment of dwarves for my fantasy dwarf army in the long run. About in the early to mid-nineties this guy got his paint on. At that time it was in good condition, only the metal had been darkly coloured and was a bit "dusty". I thought a good cleaning with a nylon brush would be everything what was needed.

At that time there was only sparse information about proper miniature painting and technique, but being in the miniature business myself I knew quite well how to handle and prep a "tin"-miniature, so after cleaning up it got a proper white undercoat with Humbrol enamels and was then painted with acrylics. Yes indeed, I painted my minis with acrylics since the eighties when everybody else still used enamels ... 8)

As you can imagine, it was a lot of work painting a good looking tartan pattern freehand on such a small miniature; please have a look at the lower left corner of the pic, that's a standard thumbtack there. After painting was finished, I added a protective coat of Humbrol flat varnish. At least that's what I thought ...  :?



A flat varnish won't seal a metal miniature from the air - that's the lesson learned through the years. Only a gloss varnish will do, and that's why I ALWAYS finish my miniatures with at least two coats of varnish, gloss first and then one or two coats of matt varnish.

But the real reason for the state of that miniature is not that I forgot to paint on a gloss varnish, as I have many miniatures from those years only matt varnished and still looking very well. But those miniatures are all from other manufacturers, not Citadel/GW. Citadel sold their miniatures to their customers although they very well knew that due to the very low part of tin and very high parts of lead, bismut and other ingredients to their alloy the figure will become lead diseased due to oxidation from contact with the air. They just wanted to save money on production costs to enlarge their margin and didn't care a f... for their customers.





For me that is the pure rip-off.  >:(

I stopped buying ANYTHING from GW years ago.


Offline revford

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 04:37:04 PM »
That is lovely work on the tartan cloak.
Gav Ford
revford@gmail.com

Offline Dewbakuk

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 06:21:11 PM »
So that is what Lead Rot looks like? I've always wondered as none of my figures have ever suffered from it. I have GW/Citadel figs (amongst many others) from the eighties that I've never painted that are still fine. I say "fine", they've been battered a bit after being kept loose in a box with other figs, but no signs of lead rot.

Maybe I'm just lucky.
So many projects..... so little time.......

Offline Rhoderic

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 06:32:22 PM »
Agree with Dewbakuk, here are so many conflicting "facts" about lead rot out there (including numerous statements that it's just a myth) that it's good to see a picture of what lead rot actually is. Those pictures look very tragic, I feel for you Admiral! Such a great paintjob too.

Out of curiousity, does that stuff scrape off? Just wondering if miniatures afflicted by this malady can at least be saved for a re-paint.
"When to keep awake against the camel's swaying or the junk's rocking, you start summoning up your memories one by one, your wolf will have become another wolf, your sister a different sister, your battle other battles, on your return from Euphemia, the city where memory is traded." - Italo Calvino

Offline archangel1

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 06:33:25 PM »
It wasn't just GW.  I've lost a few Ral Partha, Grenadier and RAFM plus one or two 54mm's to 'the rot' as well.  I've still got hundreds of original Citadel minis and most of them are still in very good condition.  I really don't think you can accuse them of a deliberate plot to ruin people's work.  Depends on the batch, I guess.  Toy soldier collectors had been dealing with the problem for decades before Citadel came on the scene.  I don't remember very many article or books mentioning or dealing with the problem, either.  Everything was just prime and paint.
Why take Life seriously? You'll never get out of it alive!

Offline fastolfrus

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2008, 06:34:25 PM »
I had a batch of pirate figures that went the same way.

A helpful member of the evil empire staff said I must have sprinkled vinegar on them or touched them without washing my hands first.

I also chose to avoid their products after that (although I'll buy their plastic on eBay if it's cheap).

The advanced stages are sadly even more distressing.
The whole figure gets a sort of white dusty coating (that actually comes up through the paint), and according to rumour this white dust can contaminate other figures. Eventually the figure just crumbles away to white powder.
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

Offline Aaron

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2008, 07:21:19 PM »
It looks similar to the dreaded "bronze disease" that attacks ancient coins. It is a shame to see such a fine paint job maimed. I suppose waxing philosophical and throwing out a "sic transit gloria" doesn't help much when so much love and hard work has been damaged. That is possible the best tartan painting I have ever come across.

Offline Musketeer

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2008, 07:49:40 PM »
Most quality miniatures now use an almost pure pewter alloy for their castings, which now include GW. In fact they were one of the first manufacturers to start using it IIRC and it costs almost double that of lead alloy. This tends to be unaffected by lead rot.
To tell how high the quality of your casting is just rattle two of them together in your hand. If it rings then its good quality pewter alloy, if it doesn't it's cheaper lead alloy.

Lead rot seems mainly to be brought on by where the figures are stored. I think they suffer from damp or humid conditions.
Cheers

Bill

"I see lead people"

http://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/

Offline archangel1

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2008, 08:14:33 PM »
Most quality miniatures now use an almost pure pewter alloy for their castings...

Pewter, unfortunately, is also a lot harder to work on.  Holds detail beautifully but is murder on files and blades.  Having said that, though, it is workable, with some effort.  I was given a cheap 54mm Viking-type warrior figure many years ago with a fairly prominent seam from the mould.  Do you think I can get rid of it? Not with hand tools and a lot of elbow grease! I'm not sure I could do anything with Black & Decker! I haven't the faintest idea what metal it's cast from but it's hard! Maybe it's solid steel!

Offline gilibran

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2008, 08:22:51 PM »
Might be worth to read this here again:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=1837.0

Cheers,
Michael
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 06:35:41 AM by gilibran »

Offline Geudens

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2008, 09:40:24 PM »
I'm really sorry about that for you.  It's a lovely paintjob otherwise.

Rudi
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 06:54:39 PM by Geudens »
do visit my websites & photobucket:
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Online Malamute

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2008, 08:31:19 AM »
Beautiful figure. What a shame. :( just a thought .. be naughty get somebody to make a mould from him and cast one up for you before he disappears.)
"These creatures do not die like the bee after the first sting, but go on age after age, feeding on the blood of the living"  - Abraham Van Helsing

Offline Admiral Benbow

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2008, 11:31:06 AM »
Thanks for all your comments and nice words. I don't want to go into a lengthy discussion about lead rot here, so just some more hints for those who would like to know more:

Gilibran already showed a link with more info, and I can heartily recommend the scientific analysis about lead rot by this museum curator: http://www.dt.navy.mil/cnsm/lead_01.html

Some advice on curing or stopping the rot is shown here, but I never tested it myself, so don't know if it works:
http://theminiaturespage.com/workbench/talk/msg.mv?id=683858

But the most interesting question remains: the lead rot phaenomenon is known for decades among museum staff people, the toy soldier scene and people working as casters. So, what did Brian Ansell (head of GW in the eighties) knew about the consequences when changing the metal alloy for casting Citadel miniatures? What follows is a statement of one of the ex-Citadel casters hinself:

"Most of the minis you fantasy types buy, and as we are on the GW Archive thread all metal GW used before 1992, is "white metal" (60% Lead 40% tin) which is quite dense, and gives a nice chunky fat finished mini. (White metal is still use extensively by most Historical manufactures today).
After the US (NY) Lead scare in the early nineties, GW and most fantasy manufactures (those nominally selling to minors) switched to "pewter" (96% Tin). This has a lower density and gives a flatter mini, when cast from the same mould.
OK the exception...
Between 1983 and 1985(ish), Bryan Ansell seeing a rise in Tin price switched the content of GW metals for a Lead/Bismuth alloy, these are the minis that are currently rotting away in piles under peoples beds. The Alloy has proved to be less than stable in the medium term and needs to be painted to stave off the dreaded rot.
As Dave sez you can usually tell them from the colour of the metal, Darkened Blue/Gray to blue/black with what looks like a very fine dry brush of white, which of course is the rot.
(some other manufactures followed suit, i cast Lead/Bismuth Alloy for awhile at TTG/Asgard in 84/5).
BIG QUESTION,
Did Bryan know before-hand that what he was doing was building obsolescence in to the Citadel line of minis?"

From: http://www.frothersunite.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4827&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1370&sid=f07676a55b465e13b613db7a6a82ba71 page 138.

Knowing GW/Citadel from it's very beginnings quite well, I know what to think on my part.  :-[


Offline Gluteus Maximus

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2008, 11:44:35 AM »
Beautiful figure. What a shame. :( just a thought .. be naughty get somebody to make a mould from him and cast one up for you before he disappears.)

Is that an offer  :o  lol lol

Yes, it's a shame when such a lovely paintjob gets ruined. It certainly is a splendid tartan!

Like Dean, I have never experienced, or even seen, an example before. Not bad for 37 years gaming, I suppose  :)

Online JollyBob

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Re: The fruits of my work, or: why I hate the Evil Empire ...
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2008, 11:50:22 AM »
That is an awful shame, such a good paintjob.  :'(

But, is it possible to halt the deterioration? If you stripped the mini, maybe treated it with something and sealed it again, you could at least repaint it sometime?

Or is that just naivety and once the rot has started it can't be stopped? Its never happened to me (touch wood) so I don't really know what if anything can be done.

 

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