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Author Topic: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11  (Read 21582 times)

Offline Gluteus Maximus

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2008, 09:00:07 AM »

-  'Celluclay', probably familiar to some of you, esp. in America. It is a shredded paper/wallpaper glue compound which you mix with water, ergo papier maché. It is very popular among diorama and model train enthusiasts and also sculpters aged 5-10 making a Christmas present t grandma.

[

Well, we actually have Celluclay available here  in the UK  :o

It seems quite pricey - 12 lb bag [ approx 5.5 kg?] is £35.74, 5lb for £19.75.

Can anyone give me an indication as to how much terrain eg 1 lb/ 0.5 kg dry product will make?

I could never get decent results from home-made papier-mache, but I like the concept and I'm always looking for easy-to-use materials that give a reasonably strong, lightweight end-product.

Offline Hammers

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2008, 09:39:26 AM »

-  'Celluclay', probably familiar to some of you, esp. in America. It is a shredded paper/wallpaper glue compound which you mix with water, ergo papier maché. It is very popular among diorama and model train enthusiasts and also sculpters aged 5-10 making a Christmas present t grandma.




Quote
Well, we actually have Celluclay available here  in the UK  :o

Where? As I need to replenish, I've been searching for a source which is not across the the Atlantic.

Quote
Can anyone give me an indication as to how much terrain eg 1 lb/ 0.5 kg dry product will make?

It is very light weight so one pound makes for a fair bit of volume. I wouldn't buy more if I had not used it before anyway. You need to see that you like it first.

Quote
I could never get decent results from home-made papier-mache, but I like the concept and I'm always looking for easy-to-use materials that give a reasonably strong, lightweight end-product.

There are all sorts of Martha Steward tips on the Web on how to make your own paper mache. Non of them is really feasible to me since I already ruined the food processor once grinding walnuts. You also a have to consider that when you make your own you don't generally get a storable, 'just add water' product. Having to make your own mess means at least doubling the time needed to achieve what you want to do.

Offline Gluteus Maximus

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2008, 10:58:15 AM »
Where? As I need to replenish, I've been searching for a source which is not across the the Atlantic.

Here:

http://www.homecrafts.co.uk/html/product.asp?cat1=1&cat2=634&cat3=3024

I've been banned from using any kitchen utensils for modelling purposes, due to a few "mishaps"  :(

The minimal mess and time-saving factors are important, plus with a pack of this stuff, I could probably calculate amounts needed quite accurately, thus saving on wastage.  As long as it goes a long way, I don't mind a big initial spending outlay. It should prove good value in the long term.




Offline Hammers

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2008, 12:10:41 PM »
I'm ordering a 12lbs bale which you could buy into.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 12:41:57 PM by hammershield »

Offline Hammers

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2008, 03:59:30 PM »
The Celluclay has now finally set and it sticks beautifully to the pink foam. The surface is tough with a slight give to it which I think is a very good thing. Next thing is to see if there is a Swedish source, otherwise I'll order from the UK.

I did a little math and came to the conclusion that if about 25 grams cover a strip 8 by 20 cm= 160cm2 I am going to need 4,5 kg to cover 2,4 m2. That's about 8,8 lbs, meaning I am buying a 12lbs bale of shredded USA Today. And they say that globalization is a bad thing!
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 04:20:46 PM by hammershield »

Offline Hammers

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2008, 06:23:45 AM »
I have been looking into this Celluclay option a bit more and while it is available in the UK  £40 seems a lot to pay for what is basically just shredded newspaper and starch.

There are many, many receipts on how to make paper mache (papier maché or papiermache). The most basic formula seems to be torn paper strips and some sort of starch glue, like corn starch or wall paper glue. There are a few other ingredients which all add various properties to the mache:

-linseed oil makes it smoother and easier to work
-white glue makes it adhere better to whatever you are applying the stuff to, it also makes it tougher
-flour makes it tougher and more durable
-a little salt prevents mould from developing
-boiling the mash loosens the paper fibres and enhanced the glue properties of the flour or starch
-a couple of drops of dishwasher detergents makes the paper absorb the water better
-you can add dry of fluid pigments
-add cinnamon to remove any odour.  ::)

I am not sure you should add all ingredients in a vain hope you'll get all desirable properties; you may end up with something more like a pie crust if you do.

My main concern is the paper. Celluclay comes with the paper ground to a very fine lint and ready mixed with the binding medium. Tearing up 10 lbs of newspaper may sound fun to some but to me it seems like a bit of work. Turning it into lint is not easy for a person only ranking as a amateur papiermachiéer. I might have a go at the office shredder...

Finally, Celluclay also have predictable results, ones own concoction might be closer to what was served as pastry in the cafés of Austro-Hungary during the last years of the Great War.

Offline Argonor

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2008, 08:14:20 AM »
Use egg-boxes for the mash (if your eggs do not come in plastic boxes) - they can be ground (grinded?) on a kitchen grinding iron before being mixed with starch glue and other desired ingredients. They are made of a paper pulp to begin with, so you do not have the fibre structure from the newspaper to cope with.
Ask at the LAF, and answer shall thy be given!


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Offline Hammers

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2008, 06:03:00 PM »
Just found this under more generic nomenclature: powdered paper mache

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAXIDERMY-AVES-POWDERED-PAPER-MACHE-Size-5lb_W0QQitemZ310031732924QQihZ021QQcategoryZ67212QQcmdZViewItem

@ 13 quid/5lbs I say it's a winner.

I also got won an auction for 5lbs of Celluclay for £10 which is not too shabby.

You tip is good to, Argonor. I was actually considering trotting over to the Swedish equivalent of Oxfam store to see if I could find an old food processor...

Offline Gluteus Maximus

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2008, 08:48:30 PM »
Just found this under more generic nomenclature: powdered paper mache

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TAXIDERMY-AVES-POWDERED-PAPER-MACHE-Size-5lb_W0QQitemZ310031732924QQihZ021QQcategoryZ67212QQcmdZViewItem

@ 13 quid/5lbs I say it's a winner.

I also got won an auction for 5lbs of Celluclay for £10 which is not too shabby.

You tip is good to, Argonor. I was actually considering trotting over to the Swedish equivalent of Oxfam store to see if I could find an old food processor...

Now that's more like it!

Offline Argonor

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2008, 09:56:06 PM »
You tip is good to, Argonor.

I once worked in a Kindergarten - one picks up all kinds of weird knowledge in such a place  lol - I also know how to make felt, and what kind of facepaints are the best, etc...  ;)

Offline Rhoderic

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2008, 11:45:12 PM »
Out of curiosity, how do you make felt?
"When to keep awake against the camel's swaying or the junk's rocking, you start summoning up your memories one by one, your wolf will have become another wolf, your sister a different sister, your battle other battles, on your return from Euphemia, the city where memory is traded." - Italo Calvino

Offline Hammers

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2008, 05:32:15 AM »
Out of curiosity, how do you make felt?

Originally out of piss and wool, I believe, but this is hardly the thread for that, is it? :)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 05:37:05 AM by hammershield »

Offline Argonor

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2008, 07:05:04 PM »
Out of curiosity, how do you make felt?

Originally out of piss and wool, I believe, but this is hardly the thread for that, is it? :)

Just substitute luke soap water for the piss, and you'll be fine ;) (Sorry, HAD to reply  lol )

Offline Hammers

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2008, 08:35:11 PM »
Right...

In my last bout of investigative terrain board making I decided to check out what options I had for tinting the putty used for sculpting the surface of the modular boards. As I've mentioned before I am honing in on a papier maché product. One feature with this material is that it is quite absorbent when set. It generally takes a few layers of paint to get a good surface. The problem with that is waterbased paints may soften the material. The solution may be to tint the paper mache which may mean that you don't have to apply so many paint layers.

So, one way of doing this is to add dry pigment to the mix. I've done this before and it worked very well. As I was browsing the shelved at the DIY found several nice natural shades and opted for raw umbra. On the shelf new to the pigments they had various selections of wood stains, an in a flash of inspiration I realized that this could be a very good option.



There are several kinds but this one comes in a small bag which you mix with boiling water. As anyone knows who've dealt with it knows it stains like a mthrfckr. A little on you shirt and it is ruined; get it on your hands and you'll have to scrub till you bleed. But this can be used to our advantage. Since papier mache is paper is pulp is wood, it outta work quite well for paier mache, right? Especially since the powdered papier mache should be mixed with water.

(The stain, dark walnut in colour, took a minimum of prep. 25 cl of boiling water, pour the contents of the bag in it and shake. Serve with a olive and a lemon twist).

OK, my first attempt was to mix a fist of celluclay (brand name paper mache) with about 2 tablespoons of walnut wood stain...



No, I did not shit in a bowl. This is what the paper clay looks like after kneading it, dark brown. It will get lighter as it dries. After this I added a good dollop of white glue and smeared it on a piece of pink foam. I made the mix quite a bit drier this time hoping that will make it set faster than during my last experiment.
 
Onwards to the dry pigment. Raw umbra is quite a bit lighter than walnut stain. It is also dry so it should be added to the paper mache powder before the water. Looks like this in this stage:



A little klear clean water was added with a few drops of flow release and the mache was kneaded till the mix was evenly coloured.




No, I am not holding faecal matter in my hand. Besides, I wear a glove. The mache is evenly coloured, glue was added and the whole thing was smeared onto the pink foam.



My, my... Pink and brown still don't go well together, do they. Quite unappetizing. The umbra stuff looks like something out of a cow. Which is probably what the dirt should look like around a rural village.

I've put the board in the drying chamber hoping it will dry a bit faster.

Stay tuned...


Offline Hammers

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Re: Terrain workshop @ Casa del Hammers Oct 9-10-11
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2008, 09:50:25 PM »
Thought I'd add a few thoughts on budget:

A bag of walnut wood stain pigment costs about 2,5 Euro will, when mixed with water, result in a 25cl tincture. I used about 30 ml with 30 grams of papiermaché. I already know I need 4kg of celluclay for a 120 by 240 cm game board. A little rough calculation based on the fact that the mache turned out too dark and I could easily have dilluted the stain much more makes me think I could do with say 5 to 8 bags meaning 12 to 20 Euros.

The dry pigment, which gave a very nice hue, is rather more expensive. There was something like 120 grams in a 6 Euro pot and I used 20 grams of raw umbra pigment with 30 grams of Celluclay. Well, it doesn't take a math genius to figure out which pigment's the cheapest.

I will use the wood stain, dilluted it some more but probably get a lighter colour, like oak.

 

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