The Myth of Multi-Part Plastics

[NickNascati]

All,
      So yesterday I received my long awaited boxes of Dreamforge Valkir troopers from the Warstore. Eight hours later, I managed to finish 24 figures. I discovered 5 figures into the Heavy Trooper box, that the figures MUST BE assembled strictly according to the directions. Why then make them multi-part?? The time required to assemble these figures is longer than should be required. If there is no actual variation, then the main body at least should be one piece!

                                                                                                                                                    Nick

[jamesmanto]

could be a casting issue.
undercuts etc. cause problems, so if there are any of those you need to make two pieces or lose detail.

[NickNascati]

Should I have clarified?  This is a set of multi-part plastics.

[Booboo]

My Robotech Kickstarter is still sitting in their boxes.  TOO MANY PIECES. Sure pose-ability and cast-ability were the two main reason cited when many were vocal after preview pics, but it doesn't help that I am sitting totally demotivated to assemble what was probably my most anticipated project in a very long time.  

Other peoples assembled and painted pics look lovely, but I just can't seem to muster up because of the piece count.

[Rob_bresnen]

I put together some GW Necrons for a friend. I am not kidding- there was a single neck vertebra that has to be glued to the skull before you could glue the skull to the body. And when it was done you couldn't even see the neck vertebrata! It was totally nonsense. 

[n815e]

What is the myth you are referring to, precisely?

I enjoy building models, so it isn't a problem for me.  I have been having a lot of fun assembling my Robotech stuff.

I think jamesmanto gave a good response.

[warburton]

Personally, I hate plastics and I would always buy metals in preference to plastics in any given situation. The only thing worse than plastic is resin.

I remember when multi-part plastics first came in. Everyone (me included) though it would be so wonderful in terms of variety and individuality, but actually it was rubbish. They take ages to put together and no matter how hard you try you always miss a few mould lines. Even worse, everyone's armies look exactly the same. The individuality was the myth. From my experience professional miniature sculptors are better than 99% of people when it comes to posing a miniature. Most people's poses achieved with plastics are, at best, pedestrian and often significantly worse than having a limited amount of metal poses.Also, plastic figures always look like a bunch of bits that have glued together. They are, of course, but when assembled they just look like a bunch of bits. No-one, not even the Perrys, has managed to make plastics that look natural at the shoulder join (except for fully armoured figures).

When metal figures were the norm, effort went into conversions so everyone's commander figures at least were totally unique. Otherwise the attention went on the paintjobs, which were lavish and imaginative where everyone was trying to make several versions of the same mini all look different. Now a huge proportion of hobby time is spent on assembling the models rather than converting or painting.  

As a result one army of plastics is basically impossible to tell from any other.

The only advantage of plastics has been that there is a huge supply of spare bits and pieces for conversions. That being said, I actually prefer the days when I would an arm or a head or whatever off a metal model and pin it to another metal model. Often bits would have to be sculpted yourself to cover the grievous injuries done to your toy soldier. All plastics "conversions" these days are actually just kit-bashing. The days of converting stuff seem to be somewhat fallen by the wayside from what I can see.

As you can see, I passionately hate plastics!

Just my thoughts though.....  

[mcfonz]

I think people are missing a key indicator here!

There is multi-part and multi-pose. Multi part simply means that there are different pieces that need to be assembled to make your models. Multi pose means that they are to some degree poseable eg space marines.

Some miniatures are overly complicated. Most mult-parts are so created to take the miniature beyond the realms of the flat and limited pose of lead casting. But there is always the choice and variation that plastic gives you.

Separate heads, choice of weapon arms etc. In metal it would simply cost too much to the consumer to buy all of those options on top of a multi part metal miniature.

It is a faff, but I do like building miniature - although not if they are wargames factory skellingtons - whose idea was it for separate feet?

[Onebigriver]

I think people are missing a key indicator here!

There is multi-part and multi-pose. Multi part simply means that there are different pieces that need to be assembled to make your models. Multi pose means that they are to some degree poseable eg space marines.

Some miniatures are overly complicated. Most mult-parts are so created to take the miniature beyond the realms of the flat and limited pose of lead casting. But there is always the choice and variation that plastic gives you.

Separate heads, choice of weapon arms etc. In metal it would simply cost too much to the consumer to buy all of those options on top of a multi part metal miniature.

It is a faff, but I do like building miniature - although not if they are wargames factory skellingtons - whose idea was it for separate feet?

The voice of clarity and sense!

[Major_Gilbear]

Personally, I hate plastics and I would always buy metals in preference to plastics in any given situation. The only thing worse than plastic is resin.

I remember when multi-part plastics first came in. Everyone (me included) though it would be so wonderful in terms of variety and individuality, but actually it was rubbish. They take ages to put together and no matter how hard you try you always miss a few mould lines. Even worse, everyone's armies look exactly the same. The individuality was the myth. From my experience professional miniature sculptors are better than 99% of people when it comes to posing a miniature. Most people's poses achieved with plastics are, at best, pedestrian and often significantly worse than having a limited amount of metal poses.Also, plastic figures always look like a bunch of bits that have glued together. They are, of course, but when assembled they just look like a bunch of bits. No-one, not even the Perrys, has managed to make plastics that look natural at the shoulder join (except for fully armoured figures).

When metal figures were the norm, effort went into conversions so everyone's commander figures at least were totally unique. Otherwise the attention went on the paintjobs, which were lavish and imaginative where everyone was trying to make several versions of the same mini all look different. Now a huge proportion of hobby time is spent on assembling the models rather than converting or painting.  

As a result one army of plastics is basically impossible to tell from any other.

The only advantage of plastics has been that there is a huge supply of spare bits and pieces for conversions. That being said, I actually prefer the days when I would an arm or a head or whatever off a metal model and pin it to another metal model. Often bits would have to be sculpted yourself to cover the grievous injuries done to your toy soldier. All plastics "conversions" these days are actually just kit-bashing. The days of converting stuff seem to be somewhat fallen by the wayside from what I can see.

As you can see, I passionately hate plastics!

Just my thoughts though.....  

I pretty much feel this way myself.

However, I will concede that the WHFB and 40k "Big Starter Box" models are lovely, and a fantastic example of what plastics should be. They are in few pieces, easy to clean, easy to assemble, well-posed, well-detailed, and relatively cheap. So, like metal but lighter basically. The GW single figure blisters are generally also decent examples, although some figures are rather better than others!

But all the points you raise -about pose, work, time, etc- are spot on. Additionally, the sculptors have to make a lot of allowances for multi-part mixable kits, which results in odd anatomical kludges to make them work.

[warburton]

I pretty much feel this way myself.

However, I will concede that the WHFB and 40k "Big Starter Box" models are lovely, and a fantastic example of what plastics should be. They are in few pieces, easy to clean, easy to assemble, well-posed, well-detailed, and relatively cheap. So, like metal but lighter basically. The GW single figure blisters are generally also decent examples, although some figures are rather better than others!

But all the points you raise -about pose, work, time, etc- are spot on. Additionally, the sculptors have to make a lot of allowances for multi-part mixable kits, which results in odd anatomical kludges to make them work.

Indeed! The days of the 40K boxes of single pose marines and orks were the high point of plastics really... They haven't done much better since then and most of the boxes that are released, I agree with the exception of AoBR etc, suffer from the mentioned defects.

Some miniatures are overly complicated. Most mult-parts are so created to take the miniature beyond the realms of the flat and limited pose of lead casting. But there is always the choice and variation that plastic gives you.

Separate heads, choice of weapon arms etc. In metal it would simply cost too much to the consumer to buy all of those options on top of a multi part metal miniature.

 

I don't disagree but I would still buy metal if the option were there. Though, I have yet to see the multi-part troops that couldn't have been done better and simpler in metal single casts (for instance, this may be heresy, but I would never buy the Perry WotR plastics when Front Rank metals are readily available...). Plastic multi-part characters ---yes I can see the argument  -- there is not much worse than buying a metal miniature and finding it actually consists of a separate torso, head, hands, arms, and legs.... plastic would have been better for ease of gluing and weight if nothing else. The GW character plastic kits are nice, really nice, except the price!

[Vermis]

I'm kinda between the two camps. I started wargaming with GW so plastics are almost the norm, in my view. I do like the ease of switching parts in a multipart set, and the idea of cheaper minis for unit building. (pity GW didn't see see the latter that way)

But I agree wholeheartedly about the awkwardness of multipose minis. Arms just swivel up or down from the same point, rather than raise or lower shoulders. Particularly clunky and odd on bare-armed models like GW Orcs and Chaos marauders. What with the number of kits in a 'dynamic' or 'menacing' hunch, turning the head piece usually means tilting it on it's side like a dog cocking it's head, rather than looking to one side. There are a lot of quizzical bloodthirsty fighters in the Warhammer world.

I think that applies more to older GW kits, tho. I agree that they seem to be getting better, and I think part of that is in dropping a lot of the multipose aspects in favour of getting a well-posed, well-detailed, well-cast mini.
The latest starter box minis, as mentioned, are a good example. Especially the skaven, IMO. Compared to the previous clanrats with separate head, torso, legs, arms, tail (and which were horribly designed monkey-dogs anyway) the new ones just need a weapon arm plugged in. Simples. Clanrats in the regular regiment boxes have just one extra bit - separate shields. I personally think the only improvement would be a separate left arm, but it's debateable. Then there's the slightly older example of plastic ogre bulls, leadbelchers, ironguts etc. One big lump of plastic for the body, and a new method of arm attachment: A wedge-shaped cavity in the shoulder fits over a wedge on the upper torso. Not very multipose-friendly, but pretty neat, and for the most part doesn't torture the concept of shoulder anatomy.
It's all possibly a lesson learned from the LotR plastic minis, some of which are even single piece where possible, and still look great.

Not to mention that I think some of the new plastic characters, cut up for the mould in a way that's almost anti multipose, are brilliant. The nurgle champion and wight king especially. If you ignore the price, of course.

Outside of GW, I agree experience of plastic production is a factor. Gripping Beast Saxons broke me of my preference for plastic troops (it was almost like oldschool clanrats all over against, but more ill-fitting) but Captain Blood's conversions and kitbashes are perhaps the best advertisement the Perry bros. have right now.

[Major_Gilbear]

Indeed! The days of the 40K boxes of single pose marines and orks were the high point of plastics really... They haven't done much better since then and most of the boxes that are released, I agree with the exception of AoBR etc, suffer from the mentioned defects.

The 2nd Edition three-part mono-pose marines were dire, and the Orks and Gretchin were only slightly better. Really poor, and really boring. Sorry to say, but that's just how feel about them.

The plastic kits with separate swivel-arm joints just remind me of Lego or Playmobile figures. You have awkward-looking models that you accessorise, rather than actual sculpts that resemble real poses.

What I was getting at were the kits in AOBR, Dark Vengeance, BFSP, and Island of Blood. Painted up, they look nearly indistinguishable form the much more complex separately-sold kits, and the low parts count is actually better for certain models as there are fewer joins which makes for a more resilient figure.

Very little effort has been made to do more of this though, and most companies want the high modularity in order to cover multiple units and therefore offset the high investment costs. Pity.

[aliensurfer]

I have always enjoyed multi-part multi-pose plastics if they don't have too many silly intricate parts. I loved the old RTB01 box set (the beaky marines), and the IG, Squats and orks that followed, and have enjoyed others since. Some have way too many parts as noted or as the OP states, have to go together a certain way, and this I dislike. i find plastic easier to convert or as someone said kitbash (sorry, to me it's still conversion - who says you have to cut a part off of a metal figure and re-sculpt your own replacement for it to be a conversion?). Plastic as well, for at least rank and file or models you'll have multiples of is (or should be, GW I'm looking at you) cheaper than metal, and only idiots would commision a plastic model and mold for single figures as it's not cost effective (again, GW this is you - £15 for a single plastic miniature? talk about extracting the urine). The only restic stuff I can comment on is the Warzone stuff, I bought the Mishima started box. Once I opened the box my heart sank with the amount of flash everywhere, let alone stupid slim little parts that are bendy and should have been done as metal components. I like a lot of the new Warzone stuff, but given the quality of the product and the amount of work I've had to do just to get the pieces off the sprues and cleaned up, I cannot see myself investing in any more. 

[Captain Blood]

Though, I have yet to see the multi-part troops that couldn't have been done better and simpler in metal single casts (for instance, this may be heresy, but I would never buy the Perry WotR plastics when Front Rank metals are readily available...)

Beauty is, as ever, in the eye of the beholder
Personally, whilst I like some Front Rank figures - notably their late C17th figures - I find the FR WoTR figures distinctly clunky and stiff alongside the Perry range.
There again, I find the Perry plastics far superior to the Perry metals in the same range - which to my mind, is testament to the power and potential of plastic.
But, as with metal figures, I don't think one can really generalise. There are some brilliant metal figures out there which can't be bettered in plastic, and there are some excellent plastic sets which (to my mind) are infinitely superior to their metal counterparts. You can buy crap plastics, you can buy crap lead. Quality will out, whatever the medium. And vice-versa of course.

I also think a lot of it comes down to your attitude to plastic kits. If you like building things and enjoy that part of the process, then you will probably like plastic figures.
If your idea of hell is building things, and you just want to get your figures ready-made and straight onto the table, then obviously one-piece castings are for you.

It's just down to personal preference.
Like everything  

I grew up with Airfix then went over to metals for many, many years. Plastic is all a relatively recent delight to me, since I never did GW. I predate it