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Author Topic: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"  (Read 35021 times)

Offline Leigh Metford

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2016, 02:17:35 PM »
A 'Lang Crisis' scenario presumes that the Governor either declines to sack Lang, or prevaricates too long over the decision to satisfy impatient conservative and right-wing plotters. It's triggered by simultaneous, or near simultaneous, 'Old Guard' and New Guard military operations against Lang's administration and its supporters, compelling them and the NSW Police Force to respond militarily. It's not about a hypothetical more extreme left-wing reaction to his sacking, Starkadder.

According to Andrew Moore the military was already swinging into action, some conservative militia units were starting to mobilise, and the New Guard was on the point of launching its coup when the Governor suddenly sacked Lang and it all came to a screeching halt. 'For want of a nail...'

That's exactly my point, Arlequin. I thought, looking at the photos on the Perry website, that that bandolier equipment doesn't appear very different to WW1 kit, so I wondered if yeomanry, as second-line units, might still be equipped with outdated gear, and that the cavalry figures might therefore be ideal for ARBM etc. I also thought that their being depicted in shirts makes them more adaptable to representing irregular and improvised units, with the shirts painted in civilian shades. Another possibility that occurs to me is that, with those pith helmets looking very much like the type worn by the NSW police, you could replace the heads with the Perry Aussie slouch hat separate heads and use the original heads to convert Footloose RIC into our own constabulary.





   

Offline Arlequín

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2016, 07:56:30 PM »
The only slight detail I can imagine being different is the shirt collar. In the British Army the old 'greyback' collarless shirt was replaced by a KD 'airtex' shirt in the mid '30s... but you'd really have to be pedantic to let that bother you. Australian units I don't know about.

The Yeomanry were actually first-line Territorials and within the Cavalry Division itself were regular units like the Household Cavalry and the Scots Greys... all of which retained their horses until September '41. The cavalry gear had been in use since 1905 (iirc), it wasn't so much outmoded or obsolete, but that the cavalry were happy with it.

Bearing in mind you're talking pre-1935, it might be worth considering that in the British Army at least, mechanisation of the cavalry had not actually begun. I'm sure someone knows better than me, but I recall that there were two armoured sections, each of two Vickers Mediums (one in NSW and the other in Victoria). The 19th LH (1st Armoured Car Regiment after 1934) had armoured cars, but I've no idea of number or type. That part of the regiment later became a motor-machine gun unit suggests they didn't have a full complement of ACs though.
 

Offline LordOdo

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2016, 09:28:18 PM »
I like the idea of an Australian civil war (just for gaming of course ;))

Might game some skirmishes myself.
The central person in my storyline will be an Austrlian imigrated fascist by the name Joseph Reiter.
Created this;

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Offline Leigh Metford

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2016, 10:14:14 PM »
The presence of collars on those yeomanry shirts makes the figures more useful as civilian political militia. You could even putty over the puttees (sorry) on a few to turn them into riding boots or loose trousers for a more irregular effect. I can already imagine them with shirts painted black (interestingly, the BUF had a presence in Australia).

I see what you mean about the Woodbine Design Gallipoli figures, Carlos: a nice random assortment of  costume and equipment. The only issue is the SD caps on some, but they could be replaced with Woodbine or Perry slouch/tin hat separate heads easily enough - except for the ones with neck curtains, which would require considerably more work. I suppose one could add a putty collar to create civilian-style shirts where necessary. And there's also the Brigade Games range for even more variety. You could visually differentiate militia and regulars by reserving the 'casually attired' figures for the former, and using figures in regulation WW1 uniform and equipment for the latter. 

Offline Leigh Metford

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2016, 09:28:49 PM »
A caution based on a closer perusal of the Brigade Games range:

For some reason the dismounted light horse figures don't match the mounted figures: they're in shirts, shorts and puttees or long trousers, with infantry equipment (perhaps based on the LH at Gallipoli), whereas the mounted figures are in the regulation tunic and gaiters with bandolier equipment. What this means is that the 'dismounted LH' are actually additional infantry variants, and there are no dismounted LH figures. Nice as the mounted LH figures are, is there any point buying them if you can't deploy them on foot? However, all is not lost as very nice matching foot and mounted LH figures can be found in the Battle Honours 28mm WW1 range made by Old Glory 15s.

All but one pack of the bespoke Brigade Games ANZAC infantry are Kiwis in lemon-squeezers, so they'll need to have their heads replaced (or at least the Montana peaks filed down ) if you want to use them.

On a slightly different note, for those considering 20mm I notice that the police in the Irregular Miniatures VBCW range are, for reasons unknown, wearing headgear that looks very much like the NSW police pith helmet!

Offline Leigh Metford

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2016, 06:44:02 AM »
On the subject of 20mm, while the figure options aren't as abundant or ideal as for 28mm there's one very important consideration that might just push some people in that direction: the availability and accessibility of suitable vehicles, aircraft, and buildings.

I've been investigating, and I was flabbergasted by what's available in the way of highly detailed period HO model railway building models, many in MDF. Have a look at, for instance, Modelsnmore and prepare to be amazed! You could very easily create an entire town, or even a convincing inner city suburb. They have a couple of large hotels, and obvious objectives in an urban battle such as a barracks(!) and a town hall, along with all the trimmings to convincingly create any urban or rural 1930s Australian environment.

This stuff doesn't come cheap though, so it would probably have to be a club/group investment, and accumulated over the long haul. If your group were going down this path I think, rather than collective ownership, it would be better to have individual ownership of models so that if/when interest in ARBM wanes, or someone moves elsewhere, participants could sell their models (perhaps to other participants, so the models stay in the collection)and reclaim some of their investment. There is the slight consolation that 20mm figures are cheaper than 28mm. 

Offline von Lucky

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2016, 10:47:08 PM »
Good find (http://modelsnmore.com.au/) other option is to use the kit as inspiration for scratch-building in same/other scales or seeing what from other manufacturers might suit this setting. While there is a lot of archival images available for this period, sets like those from MnM can consolidate a look.

One reason I'm sticking to a rural setting to start off with, but an urban one with W class trams (available in some scales) is enticing.
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Offline Leigh Metford

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2016, 11:58:40 PM »
Other HO manufacturers include Model Train Buildings, Aus-scene, Old Dog Authentic, and Outback Model Buildings, and an architectural model maker called Little Building Company has a 1/100 range.

So far I haven't found anything in S scale, so the search continues.

Offline Leigh Metford

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2016, 12:34:07 AM »
A cheaper option is card/paper models. Hayler Heritage makes commissioned models, and there's one free downloadable model on its website: the Boot Factory, Bondi Junction.

Australian-card-kits.com ostensibly has a number of useful models... if only I could work out how to access them.

Offline Leigh Metford

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2016, 01:22:34 AM »
What else am I going to do on a Saturday morning, right?

Anyway, Casula Hobbies - possibly exclusively - stocks a brand of HO card Aussie buildings called LJ Models. It's an extensive range, but there are only a few images on the site, so it's difficult to tell how many are of the right period. I guess if you're interested in a particular model(s) you could just ask via email.   

Offline Leigh Metford

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2016, 05:49:28 AM »
With the benefit of a night's sleep, a couple more thoughts:

As indicated above, there's no shortage of suitable laser-cut MDF building models in HO scale. There are also some in N scale, and one or two in O scale. Despite an intensive search though, I haven't found anything in S scale (1/64). If S scale models were a viable product presumably they'd already be in production. But there are railway modellers working in that scale in this country; I found websites for two specialist clubs, and the existence of clubs implies the existence of unaffiliated hobbyists - all currently obliged to resort to scratch-building for their miniature structures. If suddenly there was a whole new market for 1/64 historical Australian building models they might become viable.

I recall a conversation at a show a couple of years ago with representatives of one of our MDF wargame building manufacturers (I can't remember the name), during which they indicated an openness to responding to customer suggestions for new models. If all intending ARBM 28mm gamers emailed such companies demanding building models in 1/64 scale (and highlighted the potential train brain sales) I think it's possible we might just see the first stirrings by the time ARBM is published.

While viewing the Woodbine Design Gallipoli list I couldn't help but notice the Leach Trench Catapult model. I amused myself with the idea that, because of a desperate shortage of 'heavy' weapons of any sort in a military environment characterised by improvisation, it's not too far-fetched that a veteran with experience in its use could have revived the idea and the less well-equipped factions at least might have adopted it into their arsenals. Like the original (made by Gamages department store, and issued 20 to a division) it could even have been mass produced. And maybe some would have been mounted on trucks for use in urban combat, lobbing grenades over buildings. IF AVBCW can have its touches of military whimsy why shouldn't ARBM? And I'm sure Woodbine would have no objection to gamers finding an additional use for this unusual model beyond its narrow Gallipoli application.         

Offline Arlequín

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2016, 01:19:48 PM »
With something like the Leach catapult, I'm sure there would be someone (or a few someones) who might pipe up with the suggestion in lieu of a Stokes mortar being available.

Necessity is indeed the mother of invention too, so it's not that later ideas could not be brought forward in time either. There is a point where you can go too far with that however (well short of some guy knocking up a Panzer IV in his garden shed for example), but I would be loathe to suggest one and limit anybody's individual enjoyment. 'Ned Kellying' some civilian vehicles and adding a variety of armament to them is not rocket science though.

This was fourth in the line of 'LP' armoured cars designed in Australia in the '30s.



http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-armour/allied/bandicoot.htm

Offline Happy Wanderer

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2016, 09:22:38 PM »
Excellent find there Leigh on this buildings, particularly the Casula LJ Models card buildings....shame their website is crap without pictures.Regards Laser cut buildings, Mike Parker of Battlefield Scenics has moved into this area an maybe he is the man to run with this idea. I picked up one of his new offerings at Cancon and they look pretty good. If he were to make up five or six 'Aussie' buildings they have use beyond just Australia I'm sure and then there's the whole 1/64 S scale thing as you say.

Some of Mike's stuff
http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=166604


I note one of the comments in that thread said "He reckons he'll make things on demand for buyers, rather than production runs. He does mdf bases and houses for Nic at Eureka Miniatures"

So it sounds like a match made in heaven...a burgeoning new-ish on demand laser cut building by the same blokes involved in Eureka Miniatures.


Certainly he'd be a go-to man on this one I would think.

Cheers

Happy W
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 10:14:42 PM by Happy Wanderer »

Offline carlos marighela

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2016, 09:31:23 PM »
Yep. People forget that the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation, sprang up almost overnight and ended up churning out hundreds of Wirraways and Boomerangs (albeit with large government orders). Tanks in their hundreds rolled out of former railway manufacturers. People forget that there was a reasonably large industrial base in the country at the time, overwhelmingly centred on Victoria dn NSW, although if you survey what's become/becoming of places like Fishermen's Bend today it's entirely understandable that people would forget.

The trouble with a game based around walloping the Sandgropers, is that unless it's n 'over by Christmas' and fixed by diplomacy, WA has neither the population or industrial base to survive.

Anyone in Melbourne looking for cardstock and MDF Australian buildings (mostly HO) would do well to look into Train World in Brighton. They have extensive stock of these.

Alas, nobody produces Victorian workers cottages. I live in inner Melbourne and by far the most popular house styles around my parts are single story workers cottages, California bungalows and the odd double fronted single storey and federation style house. Beyond that there are clusters of double storey terraces but the old Victorian workers cottage is by far the most prominent item and would have been in the 1930s. Alas, none of the pubs in Leigh Metford's link evenly vaguely resemble the local establishments. Pubs are an indispensable item. There used to be about 30 + in Fitzroy alone and pretty much all of them dated to before the 1930s.

By the by, the Perry wooden cottage is a pretty useful item for 28mm gamers. It's easily modified, has a nice verandah and if you relace the roof with a tin one it looks the part.
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Offline Leigh Metford

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Re: Australian Civil War or "A Right Bloody Mess"
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2016, 12:56:02 AM »
Do you mean Battlefield Accessories, Happy (if that's not too familiar)? I had a look at the company's website, and it does indeed seem like there might be a good chance of seeing a result there if people were to bother Mike with enough requests.

There is the proviso that the production feats you cite occurred under a wartime economy in a united country mobilised across all social strata against foreign enemies and under threat of invasion Carlos, in which national defence had been elevated to No 1 priority at all levels of government and society. I doubt that such achievements would have been possible in the circumstances of civil war, with different industrial zones controlled by opposing factions and a large proportion of the industrial workforce actively opposed to the professional and ruling classes. Of course, there would have been much conversion of production facilities to war production on a local level, as seen in the Spanish Civil War, but without adequate time, all the pieces of the design and production chain in place, and the essential financial backing, the output of those facilities would have been relatively low, ad hoc, and unsophisticated.

I'm sure I saw workers' cottages on at least one of those HO websites.





 



 

 

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