.45 Adventure Quick Combat Resolution

[loki]

we played quite a few games of .45 last weekend, we loved the concept behind
it, but we had a few problems when it comes to close combat and shoot outs. It came to a stand still quite a few times.

We are all sure that we played the rules correctly, we might have used a little
bit more suressing fire, but we were good boys and did our guts roles  

We think about three possible concepts, to mke combat more deadlier and
the game faster (we had quite a few boring dice feast):

1) For each damage role in Close Combat and Range Combat dice an
    additional  D6/D4 and add it to the WS of the weapon
2) Grade 1 and Grade 1/2 figures are out of action if theire arms or legs
    damage row are filled. They are lying around and cry for a doc.
    Grade 1/2 should be out of the game.
    Grade 1 figures will come batched up in the next scenario, unless they
    are taken as prisoners or executed in theire helpless position.
3) We all know the damge test from page 10 of the rulebook.
    example: if a WS is 3 and the DR of the target is 4 you must save on
                  a D10 on 9 and 10.
    But if I have a WS 6 and a DR of 4 there is only one wound and NO
    further test for the remaing 2 WS. Why ?

    So we will make a further test.
    With the formula:
        DR minus remaining WS  the value x2 added to a D10 roll => TN 10

  Example:  WS 5 against DR 4
                 1 wound 1 WS remaining
                 4 - 1 = 3x2 = + 6 modifier to a D10 role to reach Target No. 10
 
                 WS 6 against  DR 4
                 1 wound 2 WS remaing
                 4 - 2 = 2x2 = + 4 modifier to a D10 role to reach Target No. 10

                 WS 7 against DR 4
                 1 wound 3 WS remaing
                 4 - 3 = 1x2 = + 2 modifier to a D10 role to reach Target No. 10

                 WS 3 against DR 5
                 no automatic wound
                 5 - 3 = 2x2 = + 4 modifier to a D10 role to reach Target No. 10

                 Remainig Damage / add to save role
                 ------------------------------------------
                          1                /    + 6
                          2                /    + 4
                          3                /    + 2

or you can use the standard system from the book, without to double the value:

                 
                 Remainig Damage / add to save role
                 ------------------------------------------
                          1                /    + 3
                          2                /    + 2
                          3                /    + 1

Just a few thoughts we might test the next game.

              [/u]

[Argonor]

Interesting!

I haven't played the game yet, but will do so in probably a few weeks time from now (it's my next priority project). I'll make notes to see if we encounter the same 'problems', and have another look at your suggestions then.

Rich may have a lot to say about this already, though....

[Grimm]

I am not supporting you meaning loki !!!!

The problrm wars you Guys allways forgett to use your  Hero Points for damage
and 50 %  of the Gamers diden´t read the Rules .

And Hack Man Zu have a SH of 7 not 5 because he has a swort  !!!!

So loki blame the Players or the scenario but not the Game !

I think the rules have all they neet  and hause rules only confuse anybody
I am not a grate fan of change a runnig system .
sorry Loki but that is my opinion.

So let us meet again in two weeks , all must read the rules a secund time and you will see the game will be different .
 
And don´t forgett we hat a lot of fun    anyway.

 :mrgreen: Grimm

[Operator5]

Thank you for the comments Loki. I appreciate any honest opinion, good or bad, because it allows me to see how the players are using the rules.

Now to cover your comments.

I'll cover Point #2 first because it's easiest. Grade 1/2 models are taken out of play with 2 arm or leg shots. I updated this in the Hordes of Mooks download from the website. I'll be making it a permanant part of the rules when I add it to The Gargoyle: Death Soldiers of the Jade Hood upon its release. Grade 1 models I personally remove if they have their arms gone, unless the scenario is an "escape from the board" game. A model with its legs gone I will keep in if it can effectively shoot at other models.

Now, as for Points #1 and #3. I don't account for the extra WS for two reasons. The first is a logic one: if someone is shot with a .38 and a .22, their wounds are probably about the same even though the strength of the weapons are slightly different.

Now, for the gaming reason. There are many ways to raise the weapon strength. The easiest is of course, use Hero Points. This makes the use of Hero Points something that is not just automatic. You have to plan how to use and when to use them. There would be less reason to use Hero Points to raise the WS if you knew the model was already going to have to roll for a second wound.

WS would also play a factor when creating your character. Do you spend the point on a better chance to hit or more damage when you hit. Do you add +1WS to your weapon or do you take +1TH? Do you take Sharpshooter or do you take Killer Instinct?

This makes everything a gamble and requires you to think about how to build the team and what to take. A shotgun will normally do two wounds when it hits at short range, but it is lousy at longer ones.

I think you'll find that if you give one member of your team Killer Instinct and Dead Shot, he'll be dropping models much easier.

Please, let me know any thoughts you may have. Like I said before, I really do appreciate them.

[loki]

WS would also play a factor when creating your character. Do you spend the point on a better chance to hit or more damage when you hit. Do you add +1WS to your weapon or do you take +1TH? Do you take Sharpshooter or do you take Killer Instinct?

I think you'll find that if you give one member of your team Killer Instinct and Dead Shot, he'll be dropping models much easier.

Please, let me know any thoughts you may have. Like I said before, I really do appreciate them.

Hello Rich,

thanks for the fast reply.
You say that I should give a weapon a +1WS, but if the weapon has 4 WS
and most figures have 4DR there is no need to increase the WS-

It would make sence to increase a weapon beyond 4 or 8 if there is a chance for a second or third wound.

Our option #3 reflects your rules for saving roles from page 10 of your
rulebook - only used beyond the first/second wound.
So it is not an new rule.

 Remainig Damage
beyond the first wound / add to save role
------------------------------------------------
                             1 / + 3
                             2 / + 2
                             3 / + 1

[Operator5]

You say that I should give a weapon a +1WS, but if the weapon has 4 WS and most figures have 4DR there is no need to increase the WS-

It would make sence to increase a weapon beyond 4 or 8 if there is a chance for a second or third wound.

Okay, look at it this way. You take WS 4 pistol. You hit your opponent, you really need him to go down, so you want to raise the WS to 8. It would take 4 Hero Points. If you had WS 5, it would only take 3. And the more Hero Points you can save for when you REALLY need them, the better.

Then, what if he happens to be in cover? He adds to his Defensive Rating for the cover so that's another reason to have the higher WS.

Like I said, it all comes down to finding the best way to manage your Hero Points and the creation of your characters.

What you propose to do will probably speed up models getting taken out, but it does add another die roll to the game as everyone would take WS 5 just to get that slim chance for a second wound at no Hero Point cost to them.