Shieldwolf Miniatures-Official News thread--Plastic Forest Goblins now available

[jon_1066]

...
We had over 100 playtesters worldwide saying about the innovative things our game brings. There are obviously some similarities like all army games, some basic principles (troops, commander etc) are shared by many. The differences however in both game-play and strategy make the two games totally different, from the very start of the deployment phase till the target priorities that drive the gaming experience. (and we're not even referring to the hardcore version where diplomacy and dominion get introduced, along with cards and the campaign map, concepts completely alien to the game you mentioned.)
A final note, the law firm ruling over us confirmed that there are definitely no issues as these have sound basic differences that should allow us IP protection once published. That should say something by itself ;-)
...

I am sure you had some innovative things in your game but you still based the combat resolution on the Warhammer one with Warhammer stat lines.  I know you can't copyright or patent a game mechanic, hence why you aren't infringing their IP, but "roll to hit, roll to wound comparing Strength vs Toughness" Really?  Are you actually going to get many backers from players reading rules like that?  It certainly turned me right off

[Shieldwolf Miniatures]

Wait, so are you saying that you got enough funding or you didn't get enough funding?
If you got enough funding, why has it been cancelled?
If you didn't get enough funding, why was this set as your goal?
Forgive me if you've answered this clearly and I've just missed it, because I honestly can't see the answer to either of these questions.

We have already answered this but we appreciate the interest and we are happy to answer it again.
We wanted two full armies, we commenced with the first plastic kit. So yes, the first kit was funded (co-funded to be exact, we are putting our money along with the backers) but it didn't seem like it was going to reach far enough to fund the two full armies we wanted to (illogical expectations regarding our Stretch Goals also led to this, regardless of how good a deal we were offering to start with). Like others have said, if we had set 150-200K funding goal, it would have never funded anyway so it was a logical target to set and take it from there. You will agree with us that 30$K isn't exactly "peanuts" as a backer said in his own words...

Now that we have seen that the game won't have the support we were aiming for, we have decided to take a further step back and take it even slower. This was not how the KS-2 had been structured however, and the false expectations we carried led to this. Maybe (like @Duncan suggested) we can re-examine this after a few years and in the meanwhile focus on a larger miniature range. Thankfully from backers comments in our KS section we still have a great interest and people supporting the project.

@jon_1066
It's not quite like that, we have simplified statistics (and other things like movement, type of terrain etc), it's kind of hard to explain the vast differences we have with the game you refer to from a computer, we trust in time people will like it when we have a chance to demonstrate it better. The whole background we have created the past years and many armies that have nothing to do with what other fantasy systems have, also give our game a different... "flavor".
ETC 2016 held here in Athens is going to be a golden opportunity for us to show how complex and interesting it is, starting with the skirmish units and the "lay traps" rules that can literally change the game from the very start. Hopefully we will be able to upload pictures and details after the event while visitors from around the world will get the chance to comprehend it better from close up and interacting with our people.

[Cubs]

So, you set the funding goal for a single army when you weren't going to continue the project unless you got funding for two? Is that the answer?

Or you changed your mind part way through the kickstarter when you saw the numbers and had a rethink of the overall project?

I'm not trying to be awkward or aggressively grill you or anything, but with respect the wording of the statements, seems to be a bit evasive and circling round the issue of why the goal was reached, but the project abandoned, without being specific.

Mistakes happen and all and all such lessons are valuable I'm sure. But knowing what the thinking is behind these kickstarters and what the funding goal represents to Shieldwolf will help people decide whether to back them in future.

[Shieldwolf Miniatures]

So, you set the funding goal for a single army when you weren't going to continue the project unless you got funding for two? Is that the answer?

No @Cubs, not for a single army, we set the goal to (co-)fund the first plastic kit and take it from there. This type of tooling, the sculptor(s) commissioned and the materials used are the most expensive, but that's what we aim for.

Or you changed your mind part way through the kickstarter when you saw the numbers?

Lol, no, we think we are more serious than that, changing our mind isn't part of the plan and the math had been done several times before launching. Starting a KS project and not fulfilling (or fulfilling badly) can be very damaging for the company's profile. Also, we avoided dragging this and tried to save as much time as possible for both us and the backers involved.
The combination of us stating we would launch only 1 project every year (which apparently is a mistake) and not seeing that the two armies will fund (due to false expectations from our behalf, we have already admitted that) along with what we consider irrational demands made by a large number of backers who never backed the project to what we considered a very good deal from the start (and we simply didn't have anything else to make it even better without putting the project into risk) led to the cancellation.
We need to work again on it, send out a draft, see what backers think of it and take it from there. It is still a product that has no equals to anything else available, so why not bring it to life?  

Edit: We don't see your questioning as aggressive or anything, on the contrary it is very politely stated and we appreciate the tone.

[Cubs]

Again, I'm struggling a little. From my experience of Kickstarter (and this is purely my own opinion, I may well be misguided), the funding goal is used as the bar for the project to go ahead and then anything additional to that is a bonus (for both backer and launcher).

Are you saying that you saw it differently and that your funding goal was just covering the initial expenses you had calculated for the 2-army project then? But your stretch goals then needed to be hit to make the project realistically viable in the longer term?

If that's the case then I see the issues and think I understand where you're coming from.

[Shieldwolf Miniatures]

From our Kickstarter experience (and it's probably much smaller than yours) the only projects that can directly ask for a substantial amount of money to fund and have a good chance in doing so are from companies that have a very large and established backer community and usually fund projects that would anyway make it into retail.

We on the other hand, even by cofunding the plastic kits (which almost no-one else does AFAIK) genuinely need the additional support in order to make it into retail, otherwise they will simply never be manufactured.
If we dared place a funding target of e.g. 100-120$K, I think you will agree with us it would have never funded. We never hid that, we had said it prior to the campaign, but since it was not clearly communicated we charge it on us and we assume full responsibility.
We will try to have it crystal-clear in the next project as we feel we learn from our mistakes however. :-)

[Peithetairos]

Might indeed be an idea to just try and fund one set at the time, as you suggest. Then you can slowly extend the range and in say 2 years time have two full armies and a rulebook. I don't think 28mm rank and file is dead, but I always got the feeling true mass battle games tend to work better in 15mm or even smaller scales.

With the jury still being out on the success of AoS maybe create a skirmish version with the campaign rules of your game as a direct competitor with similar mechanics to Warhammer (but not a carbon copy) and cool background flavour? I think Skirmish gaming with some campaign added is hot at the moment or even large scale skirmish stuff like Aurelian, DB and Dragon Rampant.

[Shieldwolf Miniatures]

@Peithetairos
Admittingly our expectations are far more measured now, and we will indeed take it one step at a time. Actually half a step at a time, since what we thought we were doing before was one step also, ! 

We also think that making the draft available before launching is going to help us receive the community's feedback and hopefully assist all of us (creator & backers) to make this work out for everyone.
We have already commenced working on it (we have named it KS-2.5) and with a little luck we will have it ready before January ends, since we aim to relaunch next month.

[The Red Graf]

This was posted on the Kickstarter page today and I have to say it sounds promising.

Update #6

Feb 9 2016

Update #6: Project relaunches... revised!

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A warm hello to everyone :-)

[This is going to be a little long to read, but hopefully the events that took place the past weeks are for the better!]

So... as you all know the project "War is Coming: Shieldmaidens vs Orcs" was cancelled some 20 days ago. There was a very grey cloud of sadness here at Shieldwolf HQ when this happened, for a number of mistakes took place and for which we assume full responsability. The discussions and feedback we received however have been vital for this project and the decision to relaunch KS-2.5 might end up working for everyone involved. After the cancellation infact, almost 800+ comments have been exchanged in the comment section, showing there is still great enthusiasm to what we can accomplish.
Click here for current draft!

We don't know exactly where to begin with on this update, so we will first try answering some questions you may have.


What are the differences in this KS-2.5 compared to the KS-2 which was cancelled?
-This project is no longer about the creation of two complete armies, expectations have been minimized.
-While all previous pledges will again be available, the weight falls on the Shieldmaidens alone. A separate Orc campaign will be launched for the Valley Orcs at a later date.
-We will see how much this funds and take it from there, since we are cancelling our "no KS will be launched without the other fully completed" Policy; it did more harm than good.
-MSRPs have been added to show clearly the amount of savings we are offering.
-This project will not includes rules nor fluff. This was one of the biggest over-estimates from our side and this time it's going to be a miniatures only project.
-This project with the help and suggestions of the backers has a different yet viable Stretch Goal organisation in order to please what backers asked for during KS-2.
-We have made an additional pledge level available (Garrison army) for those interested in only one of our two centerpieces (Mammoth or Dragon) currently available.
What is the new funding target?It's exactly the same as before, $30,000. That's the funding we will need to bring at least the Shieldmaiden Infantry kit to life.
What are the chances KS-2.5 gets cancelled again?
Zero. Even if it funds at 30,001$, we will deliver as promised.
Will you be allowing switches on the pledge levels this time?
For the same reasons we stated before, that is probably not going to be possible due to our limited manpower.
Will the "money-back" guarantee still be available?Yes it will. We have faith in our product and our abilities and place a lot of stock in our reputation.We also trust that when people actually get hold of these new miniatures they will be very pleased and proud to have supported this project.


Here's a better look at what our twin-headed Dragon looks like (for all those who messaged us that they didn't want it). Please note that this is the 54mm scale product (to be made available at retail in the next couple of months probably), but still a production miniature and a jewel of our collection. (we recommend watching in HD)


Hopefully this shows better what the miniature really looks like.

What are these new Stretch Goals you mentioned?

Here, have a look! :-)


So, what are the Shieldmaiden Rangers?

Maybe it's best to show a picture, yes? :-)

(click on image for a better view!)
(click on image for a better view!)
We think you will like this unit a lot, it's a very characterful unit which AFAWK also has no other equals to it. Worldwide!

But what about the Warmaidens?
The Warmaidens have been designed to be created after the Ranger kit funds. For those who are interested to know, yes, the 2xfree boxes are still going to remain as such once we reach it. Also, in case we do not succeed in reaching it in this KS-2.5, another project is going to be launched to fund the Warmaidens, allowing pledge levels with Warmaidens only (thus people who already have Shieldmaidens won't have to pledge for those again). When the Warmaidens show up, they will also have a Raiding Party, Starter Army, Garrison Army and Campaign Army made available.
E.g. a Starter Army would have (2x20=)40 Warmaiden Infantry, 3xYeti Riders and 2-3 Characters, while a Campaign Army is going to have something like (3x20=)60 Warmaiden Infantry, 3x Yeti Riders, 3-4 Characters and a Grand Yeti w/howdah + crew.

Do backers from KS-2 backing again receive any rewards?
While we thought a lot about it and we like the idea, we really don't know how to make the pledges even more enticing than they already are without risking to go off balance (math is math after all!). Also, some backers didn't know that their pledges would be automatically cancelled once the campaign did, so they messaged us letting us know that they are very willing to jump back when it relaunches.
Considering all this, we have decided to proceed in offering this SG reward instead


Why are you relaunching so fast?
That's a very easy question to answer. While resin production is in our hands and we have complete control over it, production for the plastics is with Renedra and we have very precise slots registered many months now. If we delay, we will lose them and that means waiting even longer! If we want to keep our delivery date for this project for December 2016, we need to have collected the necessary funds by mid/late March. At the latest!

So.. big question. WHEN does this KS-2.5 relaunch?

We have contacted our USA collaborator since this is a new project and a new contract has to be signed. If everything is in order by this weekend, the project will launch on Tuesday 16th, 14:00 EST and last for 15-16 days. We are pretty confident that's going to be final but will have to confirm that in the next couple of days however since we need to have the new contract in our hands first.

Thank you!

The Shieldwolf Team.

PS. We are open to any comments/questions/suggestions etc you'd like to pose :-)

[Shieldwolf Miniatures]

Hello again!

Seems like @RedGraf has beaten me to it, draft of KS-2.5 is 99% ready https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/375078872?token=683d3e0f

What we had to say is summarized atop I guess on update #6 but we are always very open to answer any questions you might have. Having worked the past weeks with the backers of KS-2 this time, we think the new formulation of this project will leave both sides happy 

Thank you for your support! 

[Shieldwolf Miniatures]

The project is LIVE!  

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1273312680/war-is-coming-shieldmaidens-army-reboot/comments

[Shieldwolf Miniatures]

And first update is up!
We got a lot of feedback on our take concerning the Siberias Lions some time back, let's see how people like our take on.. the bears! 

This is the sculpt, we find it very detailed and very battle-worn just like a warbear should be! 


And here's the painted version of how awesome this miniature looks with a bit of color on it!

[Duncan McDane]

Pretty good, but I feel you should make the armour/saddle/cloth optional, say, like some metal parts people can stick on the bear or leave out. That way you serve both parties 

[Shieldwolf Miniatures]

Yeah, that's a good idea in order to have even more variability!
One of the reasons we didn't do this (same goes for the lions) was because of the leather straps, they would be impossible to cast (and live) as they would be way too thin, and would probably not fit well anyway on top of the already sculpted fur to look "natural". The hobbyist would have to stick the pieces of armor or saddle on top of the model and would not look as realistic (kinda "where does this hold on to?")...

Other than that (e.g. the cloth you mentioned) would have been a nice way to go with.

[Duncan McDane]

I understand, but what if you would make it optional? Say, you leave out space in the bare sculpt where people either can insert metal/resin cast remaining fur of put in/on the armour etc. ?
The kit already is multi-part so almost all buyers know how to put them together and fill out the gaps?