Ming Dynasty miniatures in 28mm?

[Bowman]

Most contemporary Chinese sources rely on period scrolls,tomb murals,statues and artifacts. The main gripe I have with contemporary sources is that they depict parade armor as field armor.

The Perry Koreans are slightly anachronistic,the sources they use postdate the Imjin War.

I'm not an expert by any means, but are you sure? The Perry Korean garrison infantry and command look exactly like Peter Dennis' illustrations from Stephen Turnbull's "Samurai Invasion of Korea 1592-1598". See KOR6 and KOR8

There is a painting in the Ch'ungyolsa Shrine in Tongnae where the Koreans are counter attacking So Yoshitomo's position during the first battle in Pusan. The Koreans in that painting look like the Perry guerrillas, including the hair knots over the headbands. See KOR4

Another painting in the same shrine shows the Korean commander Chong Pal just before his death. He wears an all black studded armour, just like the garrison command figure in KOR5.

To my untrained eye, they look good. But I'd be willing to be shown otherwise.  

[Wansui]

I'm not an expert by any means, but are you sure? The Perry Korean garrison infantry and command look exactly like Peter Dennis' illustrations from Stephen Turnbull's "Samurai Invasion of Korea 1592-1598". See KOR6 and KOR8

There is a painting in the Ch'ungyolsa Shrine in Tongnae where the Koreans are counter attacking So Yoshitomo's position during the first battle in Pusan. The Koreans in that painting look like the Perry guerrillas, including the hair knots over the headbands. See KOR4

Another painting in the same shrine shows the Korean commander Chong Pal just before his death. He wears an all black studded armour, just like the garrison command figure in KOR5.

To my untrained eye, they look good. But I'd be willing to be shown otherwise.  

I believe the Perry's based their armored Koreans on Muyedobotongji (武藝圖譜通志 1790) as well as Chosen seneki kaisen zubyobu?(朝鮮戦役海戦図屏風 1941). The former is a Joseon era Korean military manual while the latter is a Meiji era rendition of Korean marines.

I would also caution using the Ehon Taikoki(繪本太閤記 circa 1797),Ehon Chosen gunki(繪本朝鮮軍記 1800),Ehon Chosen seibatsuki(繪本朝鮮征伐記 1853?) as accurate portrayals of the forces involved.(inspired by the Song dynasty/late Heian era)

I don't read hangul,nor can I vouch for the veracity of the these images,but Korean netizens have suggested that these images depict Imjin era armaments.

[Bowman]

Thanks for that reply, Wansui.

Firstly, I can assume that Chosen, Chosun and Joseon are all synonymous terms, correct?

Also the slight differences between the armoured cavalryman with two handed flail in your illustrations, and those figures of the Perrys KOR10, seem to me to indicate summer and winter dress respectively. Could that be the case?

The helmets seem to be the same, but are fur lined. Also the jackets are thicker and fur lined and the forearms are covered. I'll admit that the painting scheme of Chris Adcock may display some artistic license. Lovely as the painting is.

[Wansui]

Thanks for that reply, Wansui.

Firstly, I can assume that Chosen, Chosun and Joseon are all synonymous terms, correct?

Also the slight differences between the armoured cavalryman with two handed flail in your illustrations, and those figures of the Perrys KOR10, seem to me to indicate summer and winter dress respectively. Could that be the case?

The helmets seem to be the same, but are fur lined. Also the jackets are thicker and fur lined and the forearms are covered. I'll admit that the painting scheme of Chris Adcock may display some artistic license. Lovely as the painting is.

Chosen is the Japanese pronunciation,Joseon and Choson are both English transliterations of the Korean term.

My knowledge on Joseon armaments is quite lacking,primary sources can be scrutinized while I have no command of Hangul.

Lamellar and brigandine armor were separate, rank and file wore lamellar in Joseon Korea while it was the opposite in Ming China. The exception being Liao garrison as indicated by the Si Zhen San Guan Zhi(四鎮三關志 1576) which recorded the population,expenditure,armaments etc. of the 4 military garrisons(Baoding,Changping,Ji,Liao) and the 3 passes(Juyong,Shanhai,Zijing).

[carlos13th]

I'm curious what kind of forces people would build for ming Chinese. Personally I would probably go for something small around ronin or daisho size.

Would love to see others do larger Ming forces for lions rampant or impetus etc.
So those of you who are planning on a ming force what size force and what ruleset would you use.

[Byblos]

Killer katana II is an excellent rules set for big battles 

There is an extension book for the Imjin Wars

[Bowman]

Probably Hail Caesar or Pike and Shotte for me. While P+S may be closer to the actual time period, HC may be a better fit to that style of combat. I would like to see the newest version of Killer Katanas also. I don't have my Samurai painted yet, so I still have some time to think about rule sets. I'm doing 2 samurai armies, with one side painted as the Takeda clan and the other as the Ii. That is purely for the visual contrast between the opposing forces.

I would like a large Korean and Ming army to face the Samurai in the Imjin Wars. That's a lot of painting in my future.

[Svennn]

My current 28mm Ming number around a hundred but I would like to at least double that.  They are also all foot so some cavalry would be most welcome.  I posted quite a few of them in a thread a few years ago.

As for rules it will probably be a home bashed mash up starting from WHAB or similar.

[clyde85]

A Friend of mine and I created a system that uses a mash up of Pike&Shotte and Black Powder rules, plus some of our own. We made the system so we could use the Samurai lists that Warlord games released for PDF. Since then we've been kicking around ideas for varying forces from Korea and Ming China. Any game I'd play would be to the scale of those games. 

[FierceKitty]

I, too am very glad and excited to see my Joseon Koreans will soon have some Ming allies to back them up 

I was surprised to see that there is so little representation of Ming Dynasty forces in tabletop gaming, especially considering how many different Sengoku era samurai ranges there are. You'd thing after a certain point the samurai on samurai fights would get boring after a while.

Most Sengoku warfare would be more accurately described as ashigaru on ashigaru fights.

[FierceKitty]

My Ming army is about four hundred strong. But in 10mm, I hasten to add!

[clibinarium]

My own intention is to base figures individually so as to work with Ronin, then Lion Rampant, then Hail Caesar/War and Conquest, as I get more figures painted. I have a feeling that I'll use Lion Rampant for the most part.

[Codsticker]

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So those of you who are planning on a ming force what size force and what ruleset would you use.

I have 100 points of Ming for Ronin using Forlorn Hope  miniatures Ming and Ebob Mongols. I plan to expand it to 250. At this point I have too much on my hobby plate to build a proper Ming army; that and the Forlorn Hope range is rather limited.

[MattW]

So what happened with the masters of the 3D prints? Is progress back underway?

[clibinarium]

I got an email yesterday telling me that the items have been successfully moulded except the quivers for which there was no space. So I am going to finish off some bits of equipment I have here that can fill out the mould; they aren't prints but they can go in the low temp mould just to fill it out.
When I get the first batch of stuff back that will allow me to get moving forward. Not that I've done nothing in the mean time, the first twenty or so figures are nearly done.