'ELP! 'ELP!

[Harry Faversham]

Any of the Brethren know wot scale and make these little chaps are?

  

[westwaller]

They look like old citadel sculpts to me...Wargames foundry sells them now, if they are...

[Digitarii]

Some of those are Foundry models, from the Original Perry 1066 (AND ALL THAT): VIKINGS, NORMANS AND ANGLO SAXONS range:

http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/dark-age/vikings-normans-anglo-saxons

Pay particular attention to the "Armoured Normans or Anglo Saxons" collections.

[westwaller]

Yeah that's them... There's some good poses there.

[Harry Faversham]

That's the little bleeders, thanks chaps. 

[Little Odo]

Those are very nice minis. I will have to take a closer look at them on the foundry site.

[Harry Faversham]

On the chest of some of them Normans is a leather square type thingy...
to my simple mind is it extra chainmail to protect the heart/chest area?

 

[Captain Blood]

Think it just depicts a detail shown on the Bayeux Tapestry, generally assumed to be some kind of chest flap / panel to cover up the opening of the hauberk or byrnie.

[Atheling]

Think it just depicts a detail shown on the Bayeux Tapestry, generally assumed to be some kind of chest flap / panel to cover up the opening of the hauberk or byrnie.

Likely to be a covering for most of the face not a reinforcement of the armour. Mail was designed to be used on the move so that a slash would glide across the surface. It makes no sense to me to have a mail reinforcement as it would be quite indeffective against a stabbing blow.

Darrell.

[rumacara]

Indeed is an extra protection for part of the throat and face.
And the miniatures (as mentioned previously) are all foundry.

Sometimes parts of the mail are reinforced with leather inside because they would be in direct contact with the skin.

P.s. the two standard bearers are conversions.

[Harry Faversham]

Thought they were R, larger spears to get the flags on? Lovely figures I'm delighted with 'em, I'm going to add a few Foundry archers to them, as these lads will be making a 'Song of Blades and Heroes'!

[Atheling]

I love those old Foundry Saxons, Norse and Normans.... still great miiatures 

Darrell.

[Little Odo]

Nobody knows (like many things in history and archaeology) what the square panel on the hauberk is - the two main contender theories are:

1) a square of extra chain and padding to double the thickness of the chest armour in the area where there may have been a slit to get the head through (and the chest is an area vulnerable to stabbing rather than being slashed). Most contemporary pictures show the square patch worn on the chest and surrounded by a leather(?) strip with round fasteners(?). Some eastern armour would feature an extra layer over a mail coat in the form of either a lamellar or scale 'vest' to show that the chest was indeed a vulnerable spot that need extra protection

2) a flap to pull up and cover the face. There are some 10th/11th century helmets that have been preserved with nasal and cheek 'hooks' to allow for a face-veil of armour to be hung from, but the contemporary pictures do not portray it like that. Also it would severely limit movement of the head. That said, it would also protect the wearer from slashes to the throat

Neither theory is conclusive, so use whichever theory you like or ignore both and use any other conjecture that springs to mind.

[Atheling]

Nobody knows (like many things in history and archaeology) what the square panel on the hauberk is - the two main contender theories are:

1) a square of extra chain and padding to double the thickness of the chest armour in the area where there may have been a slit to get the head through (and the chest is an area vulnerable to stabbing rather than being slashed). Most contemporary pictures show the square patch worn on the chest and surrounded by a leather(?) strip with round fasteners(?). Some eastern armour would feature an extra layer over a mail coat in the form of either a lamellar or scale 'vest' to show that the chest was indeed a vulnerable spot that need extra protection

2) a flap to pull up and cover the face. There are some 10th/11th century helmets that have been preserved with nasal and cheek 'hooks' to allow for a face-veil of armour to be hung from, but the contemporary pictures do not portray it like that. Also it would severely limit movement of the head. That said, it would also protect the wearer from slashes to the throat

Neither theory is conclusive, so use whichever theory you like or ignore both and use any other conjecture that springs to mind.

But if you apply common sense then it's certainly and extension of the aventail IMHO. At least most serious modern armourers make their armours tin this way. A good sword, spear etc would pierce two layers of mail on the chest (as proved in many tests- I know modern tests are not conclusive evidence) so I ust see this as not viable. I will repeat what I said earlier, mail was a great protection from slashes for a moving target, it is not at all good for a solid thrust or an bodkin point. Obviously a gambeson was worn under the mail and that may have offered more protection against such attacks than the actual mail!

I guess that it will always be a point of conjecture.

Darrell.

[Captain Blood]

I guess that it will always be a point of conjecture.

I guess so 
For me, knowing how a lot of pre-industrial-era clothing was constructed, the most logical explanation remains that the 'panel' is simply a flap to cover up the throat opening of the hauberk - just like the button up breech-flap on a pair of C18th / C19th trousers or breeches.

Or perhaps that's just the frame where they used to put their race numbers?