Have any members had a really negative sale on any groups or forums?

[The Mystic Spiral]

Only one negative experience on here, and no goods or cash were exchanged so no real damage. Had a massive clear out years ago and put it all on TMP, shifted the lot without any problems. I think the forums that try to create a community cuts down on the dodgy.

Paypal as gift always seems sensible for this sort of thing, we're all meant to be friends on here and it isn't a commercial venture for most of the people offloading their excess stuff in the marketplace. I always try to keep prices fairly token when I'm having a wargames cull, take out the fees and it's just not worth the time spent packing and posting.

Where I've been shafted repeatedly was when I started the figure painting business. Lost count of the number of painted figures that "never arrived", or arrived but the buyer seemed to vanish.  Then there's the guy that had some weird specific requirements, to keep it anonymous I'll say he asked for me to not paint the bases, then on delivery threw a fit cos the figures were not properly painted. Why? Not done the bases!? Payment up front and always special delivery from then on.

As a buyer on eBay is where it can become a minefield, counterfeit DS games, board games with missing pieces, completely different figures to the picture, and my favourite, the Epic40k "predators" that were rhinos with bits of ork war wagon stuck to them. 

The best protection I've found as a seller is to always charge P&P at cost and make sure it's special delivery if you're selling anything really important or irreplaceable. Then hang on to the money until you have confirmation from the buyer that they received the parcel and are happy with it. A refund is a pain, but at least it stops any unpleasantness and you'll only lose the value of your unwanted item.

J

[beefcake]

I've only had one thing go missing. Here on LAF but I reckon seller was true to word. Urban war sumatori, still want those things too. Seller offered refund but I said no.
With PayPal as gift, I may be to untrusting, it's always a red flag to me so I offer to put in a few extra monies to cover the cost.
Personally I think of you are selling something you should take into account the fees with your selling price.

[The Mystic Spiral]

Am I  missing something on paypal/lead adv market  etiquette here?

Prior to selling a couple of times I'd only ever bought stuff and every time it was pay as a gift. And stuff arrived fine. I assumed that was how it was done.

Seems there's a school of thought otherwise. Maybe change my payment options in future.

Shan't cry for paypal in the meantime though, buggers get enough out of me in the day job. 

J

[Malebolgia]

I've only had one thing go missing. Here on LAF but I reckon seller was true to word. Urban war sumatori, still want those things too. Seller offered refund but I said no.

Yeah, these were mine. It still bugs me they never arrived. I hope some mailman or customs dude has fun with them

[throwsFireball]

Am I  missing something on paypal/lead adv market  etiquette here?

Prior to selling a couple of times I'd only ever bought stuff and every time it was pay as a gift. And stuff arrived fine. I assumed that was how it was done.

Seems there's a school of thought otherwise. Maybe change my payment options in future.

Shan't cry for paypal in the meantime though, buggers get enough out of me in the day job. 

J

The idea is to give people protection in case something does go missing. Imagine I send something to you, you don't get it but you sent me friends and family. I've got no legal obligation to give you the money back and you have no recourse to get it back.

As I've said, it seems uncommon on these forums for that to happen but for places like Dakka Dakka and Bartertown I'd be much warier about a seller who wanted me to send it F&F.

[The Mystic Spiral]

The idea is to give people protection in case something does go missing. Imagine I send something to you, you don't get it but you sent me friends and family. I've got no legal obligation to give you the money back and you have no recourse to get it back.

As I've said, it seems uncommon on these forums for that to happen but for places like Dakka Dakka and Bartertown I'd be much warier about a seller who wanted me to send it F&F.

Gotcha. Sort of assumed PP had protection on F&F too. Quite worrying, what if you type the email address wrong!

Of course the dodgy get you both ways. Regular paypal always takes the side of the buyer who says "they never sent it". Got a friend who ebays a lot and regularly gets screwed even when he's got proof of delivery.

All quite depressing really. Sorry, the whole point of this thread seemed to be to convince Manic Miner that he's safe to get rid of his unwanted stuff. I'm sure he's fine on here really.

J

[Conquistador]

Trades I have never done.  Call me paranoid but I never felt easy with the concept of sending stuff to strangers outside of commercial

Only times ripped off is many years ago when I bought a few miniatures related things on Ebay then Ebay closed the seller's account and I never received my money back.  Both times the stuff was IP violation related (and I did not know there even was a product of those types to have an IP to be violated) and EBay/Paypal contacts said - paraphrased- "Not our problem."  Which was weird because both of them said it was the other's responsibility.  This before they merged and later broke off as separate entities.  I decided to let it ride and it has never happened again.  

"Explanations?  We don' need stinkin' explanations," moment but bureaucracies can be weird that way.

[eilif]

It's all about being knowledgeable and knowing your options.  A huge number of the negative deals I see folks reporting on are partially their own fault.

-Paypal F&F not only is dodgy, but is actually against paypal rules for purchases.  It may be worthwhile in some cases, (I've done it) but folks need to recognize that it's a risk and if you get shafted, you've got no recourse and only yourself to blame.

-Ebay/paypal/credit card purchases:  Know and watch your "dispute" deadline.  Don't wait until the dispute deadline is passed to file one.  It's a hassle, but if you let someone jerk you around until the dispute deadline is passed then you're out of luck.

-Delivery confirmation. If it's a valuable item, use it.

-Custom work: 100% up front or 50% to start and 50% before shipping after sending pictures to the recipient.

These things all cost money/time.etc, but that's the price of doing business.  Cut corners and you run the risk of getting cut.

[The Mystic Spiral]

It's all about being knowledgeable and knowing your options.  A huge number of the negative deals I see folks reporting on are partially their own fault.

-Paypal F&F not only is dodgy, but is actually against paypal rules for purchases.  It may be worthwhile in some cases, (I've done it) but folks need to recognize that it's a risk and if you get shafted, you've got no recourse and only yourself to blame.

-Ebay/paypal/credit card purchases:  Know and watch your "dispute" deadline.  Don't wait until the dispute deadline is passed to file one.  It's a hassle, but if you let someone jerk you around until the dispute deadline is passed then you're out of luck.

-Delivery confirmation. If it's a valuable item, use it.

-Custom work: 100% up front or 50% to start and 50% before shipping after sending pictures to the recipient.

These things all cost money/time.etc, but that's the price of doing business.  Cut corners and you run the risk of getting cut.

All good points. I'll add a few more if you don't mind.

Take photos of the item BEFORE you send it. Date stamp to prove it was in good condition when you sent it.

Try to keep receipts, The Royal Mail want proof of what you paid for it before they reimburse for loss or damage. This is really hard for our kind of objets d tat, but worth a thought.

J

[Gunbird]

Try to keep receipts, The Royal Mail want proof of what you paid for it before they reimburse for loss or damage. This is really hard for our kind of objets d tat, but worth a thought.

J

I'll top that with PostNL. A friend of mine recently had to prove he actually had put the items in the box that he sent insured. He had taken pics of the box and receipt as always, but that was a step we never thought about. He got nothing.

Why the hate for F&F? I always give people the option to pay as F&F or regular Paypal. 95 out of a 100 take F&F. Sure, most likely because when people want to pay with normal Paypal I insist on signed for and insured shipping, which for Dutch to EU mail doubles to triples the shipping costs, and sofar over the last few years I had 1 person agree to that. Everybody else took F&F and everyone got their goods. Sure, it is a risk, but isn't that always the case?

[The Mystic Spiral]

I'll top that with PostNL. A friend of mine recently had to prove he actually had put the items in the box that he sent insured. He had taken pics of the box and receipt as always, but that was a step we never thought about. He got nothing.

Wow! Just wow! Kind of impressed at the thought process behind that. Wouldn't the weight of the parcel give them a clue?

Maybe next time he should wear a gopro and record the process of packing and posting?

J

[Gunbird]

I'm not even sure the stunt PostNL pulled is entirely legal tbh.

[The Mystic Spiral]

A while ago I ended up having to sell a GW Landraider for about  £1.50 because I'd weighed the parcel and quoted the buyer based upon what the RM website said.

At the post office the p&p was twice the quote, when I queried it I was told "Oh everyone says that about the website".

A deal's a deal so he got his landraider for the asking price. Not his fault, don't see why he should pay extra.

Note. Within 6 months I was back into 40k and wishing I'd kept it.

That's another seller beware point.

ARE YOU SURE YOU WON'T WANT IT AT SOME LATER DATE?

[Pijlie]

I have sold dozens of items through FB or LAF all over the world and never felt screwed.

The only one that ever failed was when an item I sold never arrived and I had neglected to offer insured shipping. I decided to split the loss and refunded half the amount. I had no way to be sure but liked trust and a decent compromise better than the alternative. 

I always offer price and payment in advance with Paypal included plus shipping and packaging at cost and the option to use insured S&P (when lost you get a refund) or not (no refund).

[Predatorpt]

The only problem I had so far as a seller was here on LAF. Did a trade with a member of good standing (who stills posts regularly); he sent me a PM saying that he had received my miniatures and would send his soon (it was a model kit of a WW2 jet). Them silence...

After some insistence, he replied that the model was damaged and said he would send it anyway and offered 2 additional miniatures (from the SOTR range of minis). I accepted - in July 2015. No news until I sent a further PM in November. More excuses and a promise that they would be sent in a couple of weeks.

Sent him a new PM on December and this time he didn't even reply. The nice part is that he's happily posting in the forum, talking about his purchases; his plans for 2016; showing his painted miniatures etc. 

So right now I only do trades with people with whom I've traded before.