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Author Topic: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?  (Read 67904 times)

Offline warrenpeace

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #510 on: May 16, 2019, 02:56:10 PM »
Expecting an orderly wrap up is a bit much to hope for. In all the things I have read by Martin there has never been a happy ending. There's just an  ending.

The best wrap up I can imagine is a final scene of Daenarys riding up to some peasants slopping mud in a field and asking, "Who is your lord?" ...only to be told that they have no lord, and that they're an autonomous collective!
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Offline warrenpeace

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #511 on: May 16, 2019, 03:04:54 PM »
As King's Landing is being torched, I have to wonder... where is Godzilla when you really need him?

Offline Sir_Theo

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #512 on: May 16, 2019, 03:56:47 PM »
That's not how the scene is built. It is clear that it is a spur of the moment decision, not meditated. It isn't planned. She behaves like a disorganized psychopath. She is the Manson family, not Hannibal Lecter.

There is nothing political in her actions.

Numerous times in the show she has wanted to take the extreme and violent course of action but been talked out of it by, variously, Jorah, Tyrion, Varys and Jon.  Feeling betrayed by all her advisors, with 2 of her 'children' and her two closest confidants dead I can see her taking the action she's wanted all along. She's her father's daughter.

The only real problem with this season (apart from the usual stuff like the military tactics and costumes) is that it needs to be longer, it all feels very rushed compared to the previous 7 seasons, as epic as the episodes have been.

That said I've been enjoying it!

Offline Mad Doc Morris

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #513 on: May 16, 2019, 04:01:00 PM »
Expecting an orderly wrap up is a bit much to hope for. In all the things I have read by Martin there has never been a happy ending. There's just an ending.

No one called for happy ends. ;) Rather consistent character arcs instead of the improvised, stuttering versions we're getting since season 6.

For me these "overarching themes" are one of Martin's strengths. In SoIaF he's developed quite a few characters only to shatter them in a way that highlights their mindset. (The destruction or inversion of role models and gender stereotypes as well as the predominance of social imprint over genetic and structural/cultural factors in Martin's characters are to me but some of the most interesting topics conveyed in his writing.) I'd just like to see if some of the latest developments (like Brienne and Jaime blundering into sexual intercourse) were intentional or mere fan service.

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #514 on: May 16, 2019, 04:02:11 PM »
Expecting an orderly wrap up is a bit much to hope for. In all the things I have read by Martin there has never been a happy ending. There's just an  ending.

I didn't expect a happy ending. I did expect a coherent ending, though.

Edited: Mad Doc explained it better than I
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 04:07:58 PM by Antonio J Carrasco »

Offline Hupp n at em

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #515 on: May 16, 2019, 05:00:17 PM »
I feel the buildup to Mad Queen Dany was insufficient and very sudden, but mostly problematic in the execution.  No shots or scenes of the peasants showing hate towards her or jeering etc, and rather than going to the Red Keep first and then getting carried away, she just strafes streets full of civilians block by block.  Dany is tempermental and has the Targ fire&blood attitude in her, but it was a bit too 0-100 for me and seemed like abject cruel murder rather than "sorry, you're in my way and I'm getting my way!" 

I've been pretty disappointed in this season, though I feel like a lot of the complaints are rather nitpicky.  I do think the way the cast has reacted to this season says something about how they decided to resolve/ignore character arcs - I think Emilia, Pilou, Kit, Peter, Gwendolyn, Nicholaj, Lena, Conleth, Nathalie, and Jakob have all voiced some displeasure/confusion/concern regarding their characters or overall plot choices.

Offline ARKOUDAKI

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #516 on: May 16, 2019, 06:37:23 PM »
Burn them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

I hope someone has the good sense to collect all the gold from the Golden Company to help pay for the restoration (complete rebuild) of King's Landing!  lol

Offline AKULA

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #517 on: May 16, 2019, 06:59:40 PM »
Burn them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

Speaking of which, I’m sure everyone noticed the sporadic explosions of wildfire during the episode (part of the scene that prompted Jon to order the retreat)...so presumably Cersei was planning to torch large sections of the city and blame it on the dragon.

Offline ARKOUDAKI

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #518 on: May 16, 2019, 07:11:48 PM »
I did notice that but it appeared to be stored on upper floors of buildings....so don't know what the point of that was as when Cersei blew up the city before she stored it all underground, for maximum damage (confined explosions go upwards!). Also, why didn't they load those javelins with some sorta of wildfire device....that would have been fun to watch.

Okay, last episode this Sun and I expect more of the cast to die! Jon Snow has to go as he is just too darn nice to rule anyone....just a big pushover! Heck, he couldn't even control his own troops during the sacking of the city. Speaking of which, why doesn't Snow (and Queen Dany) have a personal guard? Cersei has one...so doesn't every ruler with sense. Heck, the tyrant Maduro down in Venezuela has it own personal bodyguard. Hitler had the SS, Alexander the Companions, Napoleon the Old Guard, etc. GoT has been a fun show to watch but whomever is the military advisor/consultant clearly doesn't have a clue about the subject! Where is Dale Dye when you need him! ;)

Offline AKULA

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #519 on: May 16, 2019, 07:27:02 PM »
I did notice that but it appeared to be stored on upper floors of buildings....so don't know what the point of that was as when Cersei blew up the city before she stored it all underground, for maximum damage (confined explosions go upwards!). Also, why didn't they load those javelins with some sorta of wildfire device....that would have been fun to watch.

It seemed to suggest that there wasn’t enough wildfire available for a Big Bang, and that Cersei was more concerned with torching houses (and blaming it on Daenerys) rather than using it as a military weapon...afterall a dragon would set fire to the tops of houses.


why doesn't Snow (and Queen Dany) have a personal guard? Cersei has one...so doesn't every ruler with sense. Heck, the tyrant Maduro down in Venezuela has it own personal bodyguard. Hitler had the SS, Alexander the Companions, Napoleon the Old Guard, etc. GoT has been a fun show to watch but whomever is the military advisor/consultant clearly doesn't have a clue about the subject! Where is Dale Dye when you need him! ;)

Well, for much of GoT, Daenerys did effectively have Ser Barristan Selmy and Jorah Mormont as her bodyguards, and Greyworm was never far away, along with half a dozen Unsullied.

As for Jon, well if you can’t trust your “brothers” of the Nights Watch not to stab you through the heart, then who do you trust to guard you...besides, EVERYONE loves Jon Snow...apart from Daenerys..and Greyworm....yes he is screwed.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 09:36:17 PM by AKULA »

Offline Coenus Scaldingus

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #520 on: May 17, 2019, 05:55:52 PM »
2) In the show, during Ser Jorah's duel with Qotho, the latter couldn't penetrate the former's armor with his arakh, though later the Dothraki have no issue slaying armored Lannister soldiers. Maybe it's safety related: in Sharpe's Waterloo, French cuirassiers were killed after getting their breastplates smacked with swords.
Oh yes, armour actually being functional, rather than decorative. I wish more shows would illustrate that, or in this case, remember it. No wonder the main characters don't bother wearing helmets - armour is clearly useless anyway.

Numerous times in the show she has wanted to take the extreme and violent course of action but been talked out of it by, variously, Jorah, Tyrion, Varys and Jon.  Feeling betrayed by all her advisors, with 2 of her 'children' and her two closest confidants dead I can see her taking the action she's wanted all along. She's her father's daughter.
The father she wasn't raised by, a man she never knew? Just inescapable genetics than ey? That's a bit bleak.

I agree that the sudden change in her character was badly done. There was not enough leading up to it, and the trigger was.. what? Hearing the bells and looking at the Red Keep apparently. I figured she would attack Cersei et suis, but no, she decides to just slaughter thousands of civilians and destroy the city. Even the Mad King had more method in his madness - both what he did and why he did it. This was entirely out of character, even taking into account any changes in character of the duration of the show and recent events. She has become merciless to those she despises, and has come to hate Cersei and her accomplices. The citizens of King's Landing are not among those.

Speaking of which, why doesn't Snow (and Queen Dany) have a personal guard? Cersei has one...so doesn't every ruler with sense. Heck, the tyrant Maduro down in Venezuela has it own personal bodyguard. Hitler had the SS, Alexander the Companions, Napoleon the Old Guard, etc. GoT has been a fun show to watch but whomever is the military advisor/consultant clearly doesn't have a clue about the subject! Where is Dale Dye when you need him! ;)
Jon had a big, lovely, loyal dog at some point.. until they decided dragons and countless exploding buildings were more important things to spend the CGI budget on. Poor Ghost. At least he's safe up North with Tormund now, no doubt getting a nice saucer of giant's milk each morning.
~Ad finem temporum~

Offline mcfonz

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #521 on: May 18, 2019, 06:30:32 PM »
I feel the buildup to Mad Queen Dany was insufficient and very sudden, but mostly problematic in the execution.  No shots or scenes of the peasants showing hate towards her or jeering etc, and rather than going to the Red Keep first and then getting carried away, she just strafes streets full of civilians block by block.  Dany is tempermental and has the Targ fire&blood attitude in her, but it was a bit too 0-100 for me and seemed like abject cruel murder rather than "sorry, you're in my way and I'm getting my way!"

I'm with Akula. I actually think people are looking at this in too much isolation and with too much simplicity.

She threatened to do this in the last episode. We'd already had a discussion about it with other characters. Tyrion feared it but didn't want to believe she was capable of it, at the very least he understood that she was close to snapping point hence his threats and desperation in the attempted negotiations. Jon was more or less the same. Varys believed she could, and indeed, would do it and warned Tyrion of such and suggested Jon as being more level headed.

I also think it ignores something else going on. Another play for the throne. Daenerys wants to be wanted by the people as much as Jon is. She hasn't the time, the ability or the charisma to win them over the way he has done. So she can't be more popular than Jon. What better, then, to make Jon less popular? To burn the city he is in theory leading the attack against. Drag his name down rather than bring hers up. He was part of the slaughter of Kings Landing. Jon the fair did nothing to protect the innocents. Will they be so ready to back him now he has the same blood on his hands, of those innocents?

I've been pretty disappointed in this season, though I feel like a lot of the complaints are rather nitpicky.  I do think the way the cast has reacted to this season says something about how they decided to resolve/ignore character arcs - I think Emilia, Pilou, Kit, Peter, Gwendolyn, Nicholaj, Lena, Conleth, Nathalie, and Jakob have all voiced some displeasure/confusion/concern regarding their characters or overall plot choices.

For so many reasons this season was always going to be rushed. From the book not being finished and even Martin not necessarily knowing how he wanted it to end. He's well known to be a far from pacey writer, there was always going to be the risk that the TV show overtook his books. Then you have the actors. Many started out as relative unknowns, or actors/actresses who's careers had quietened etc. Since the first series several have risen to the level of movie stars. This means that their availability becomes reduced and more expensive. Shooting a longer series therefore may have a much more difficult task in terms of getting people committed to shooting and in terms of expense. As with many TV series, often they end before their desired finish. As a result the last season often feels a bit 'choppy'.

Taking all of that on board, not to mention it not being taken directly from Martin's work either, I think they are doing fine. So far I haven't seen any drastic alterations.

Part of me still wonders if Bran will just wake up and it'll have all been a part of a nasty dream after being pushed from the tower.
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Offline Coenus Scaldingus

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #522 on: May 18, 2019, 08:35:43 PM »
For so many reasons this season was always going to be rushed. From the book not being finished and even Martin not necessarily knowing how he wanted it to end. He's well known to be a far from pacey writer, there was always going to be the risk that the TV show overtook his books. Then you have the actors. Many started out as relative unknowns, or actors/actresses who's careers had quietened etc. Since the first series several have risen to the level of movie stars. This means that their availability becomes reduced and more expensive. Shooting a longer series therefore may have a much more difficult task in terms of getting people committed to shooting and in terms of expense. As with many TV series, often they end before their desired finish. As a result the last season often feels a bit 'choppy'.
GRRM wanted about 10 seasons. HBO was happy to have this last season be 10 episodes. It's purely the showrunners who decided against either.

Quote
So far I haven't seen any drastic alterations.
Dorne? Azor Ahai, Nissa Nissa and Lightbringer? The prince that was promised? Valonquar? Aegon Targaryen/Blackfyre? Starks being able to warg? Lady Stoneheart? Horn of Winter? Euron's Dragonbinder?

Offline Belligerentparrot

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #523 on: May 18, 2019, 08:41:40 PM »
So, not long to go before the final episode now.

A question for you all: who is going to be in charge at the end?

My guess: 7 Kingdoms splinter, Tyrion in charge of the south; Sansa in charge of the north. Jon and Dany dead; Arya still alive but choosing domestic bliss with Gendry.

Offline mcfonz

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Re: SPOILER ALERT! So am I the only one excited about a new round of GoT?
« Reply #524 on: May 18, 2019, 09:25:01 PM »
GRRM wanted about 10 seasons. HBO was happy to have this last season be 10 episodes. It's purely the showrunners who decided against either.

They can want what they like. Tying down what are rapidly becoming prime role movie stars for that long is going to be an uphill battle with TV. As things stand though, one also has to consider that some of the episodes have been longer. So whilst there might be less of them, in all they probably are not that far off 10 in total. At the end of the day, it is the production company that has the budget and knows how far it will stretch. GRRM wanting more is almost a joke in the sense that he'd have had to have kept pace with book releases, and he is mostly quite agitated when asked about when the book will be ready from the interviews I have seen. TV can't wait. So it is what it is.

Dorne? Azor Ahai, Nissa Nissa and Lightbringer? The prince that was promised? Valonquar? Aegon Targaryen/Blackfyre? Starks being able to warg? Lady Stoneheart? Horn of Winter? Euron's Dragonbinder?
You misunderstand me. I meant none of the TV series characters have drastically changed this season - at least not in ways that shouldn't have been expected. I wasn't comparing to the books.

 

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