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Author Topic: Anyone ID these guns please?  (Read 3616 times)

Offline Furt

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Anyone ID these guns please?
« on: June 05, 2016, 01:58:03 AM »
Could anyone ID these smooth-bore cannon for me?

Image from the excellent http://lonelygamers.blogspot.com.au/

Thanks in advance
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Offline MaleGriffin

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2016, 02:59:01 AM »
Because of the metal carriage, I don't believe it's a smooth bore gun. It looks like a 9 pounder RML British field gun, but the elevating screw doesn't look right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RML_9_pounder_8_and_6_cwt_guns

It doesn't look big enough to be a 13 or 16 pdr.

Offline Furt

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2016, 03:45:52 AM »
Because of the metal carriage, I don't believe it's a smooth bore gun. It looks like a 9 pounder RML British field gun, but the elevating screw doesn't look right.

They might be a mishmash of barrel and carriage?  :?

Anyone identify the miniature manufacturer?

Offline Silent Invader

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2016, 04:35:52 AM »
I'm wondering if it's a 'homemade' barrel on a commercial carriage. There are very slight inconsistencies between the two barrels shown, which wouldn't be the case if they were from the same master. Styrene tube/rod assemblies?

Minis look to be Foundry Hill Tribesmen Artillery

http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/colonial/indians-zanzibaris-turks-moghuls-sikhs-afghans-arabs-corsair/indian-hill-tribesmen-collection-bcind005/
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 04:39:57 AM by Silent Invader »
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Offline Furt

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2016, 05:34:11 AM »
Minis look to be Foundry Hill Tribesmen Artillery

Yeah sorry SI, I should have said the manufacturer of the gun. I am pretty confident they aren't Foundry pieces, but I could be wrong.  :?

I'm really just after something that would suit the Afghans, that is not a mountain gun, and these looked pretty cool.

Online OSHIROmodels

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2016, 06:53:23 AM »
I would say they are scratch built guns on bought carriages as well.

cheers

James

Offline Deedles

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2016, 05:13:01 PM »
Nathan's e mIl addy is on his blog... You could try asking him?
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Offline MaleGriffin

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2016, 06:16:58 PM »
I looked in my Wargames Foundry Victoriana catalogue and they look a lot like the SSG43 Zulu Wars 9lb field gun.

Online Malamute

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2016, 06:53:15 PM »
Empress Zulu war guns?

I haven't been and looked at them, but I remember them having tiny barrels.
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Offline Furt

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2016, 09:14:37 PM »
Nathan's e mIl addy is on his blog... You could try asking him?

Yeah I tried that - he can't remember, but thought one might be a Foundry one!  lol

I looked in my Wargames Foundry Victoriana catalogue and they look a lot like the SSG43 Zulu Wars 9lb field gun.

If there was a SSG43 I can't find it on the Foundry site now.  :(

Empress Zulu war guns?

I haven't been and looked at them, but I remember them having tiny barrels.

I thought that too Nick and the Empress ones do look damn close, but there are small inconsistencies with the carriage and barrel.

So if I can't find these exact guns, what would people suggest for a generic Afghan gun in the NWF?




Offline MaleGriffin

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2016, 11:45:12 PM »
The figures are also in the Foundry Victoriana catalogue as IM 161 to 164.

The Wargames Foundry website has the Hill Tribesman Artillery Crew as IND235 and the gun listed as DA15/8 but the picture is poor.

It may be a reach, but if the figures are Foundry the gun may be as well.  ;)

Offline Mad Guru

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2016, 09:40:36 AM »
In the few contemporary accounts I have read concerning guns fielded by NWF tribes, the guns are always antiques -- older British or Russian guns, or much older "Turkish" guns, which I have always taken to mean 17th or 18th Century Ottoman or Mughal style cannon -- which despite their operational shortcomings, on the tabletop have the advantage of looking very cool!

Of course the Afghan regular army included an impressive array of modern artillery pieces, but I don't think I've never heard of any breechloading cannon, or even late model muzzle-loading guns, being fielded by tribesmen in the mid to late 19th Century.  I believe if the Imperial authorities had knowledge of the mere possession of such a weapon it would have quickly led to action on their part to confiscate or destroy it (which might be the makings of an interesting scenario).  None of this is to suggest that you shouldn't provide your own NWF tribesmen with any kind of gun you want them to have, be it old or new.  In my NWF games, from time to time a "picturesque" antique cannon will either blow up, taking its unfortunate crew with it, or land a lucky shot that helps the Tribesmen gain victory.

As far as specific recommendations, I think Napoleonic Russian or British field guns, or Mughal or Ottoman Renaissance guns, would work well, or if you want to give your tribesmen the advantage of a more modern weapons system, then a Russian or British Crimean War field piece.
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Offline Furt

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2016, 09:48:53 AM »
Thanks Mad Guru - just the kind of info I needed.  :)

As far as specific recommendations, I think Napoleonic Russian or British field guns, or Mughal or Ottoman Renaissance guns, would work well, or if you want to give your tribesmen the advantage of a more modern weapons system, then a Russian or British Crimean War field piece.

So you mean this old thing would be fine?


Offline Lowtardog

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2016, 12:08:31 PM »
I would go with that beauty, also captured guns from earlier campaigns too

Offline Eclaireur

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Re: Anyone ID these guns please?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2016, 09:18:42 PM »
The guns in the OP's picture look as though they might have been modelled on some of the guns in this picture of captured 2nd Afghan War Afghan guns
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/65/e8/f0/65e8f082660b0863886fd325ebc24f61.jpg

The Afghans had bought quite a few artillery pieces from European arms makers in the mid 19th Century - including the famous 12 pdr Armstrongs. So a metal carriage with a modern cast barrel, even muzzle loading is not impossible.
Give them those huge Indian or Ottoman looking pieces for earlier conflicts if you wish, but I don't think many were around by later 19th Century.

MadGuru and I had a discussion offline about gunners in tribal dress - and you would quite likely have seen them in a few 1st Afghan War battles. Not so clear in the 2nd AW but quite possible some men drafted in to help the regular gunners.
Fans of the old Foundry gunners from the mountain tribes pack should stand by for a treat. The new Perry Victoria's Little Wars range is expected to feature Afghan tribesman with a mid-19th Century (maybe ACW) gun  ;D
EC

 

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