GOT- or LOTR-Saga?

[Barbarus]

Okay, guys.

Some of you, maybe even most of you have seen my project called "A Fantastic Saga" by now.
(see link in my signature)
A fantasy adaptation of the famous SAGA ruleset.

And as I have started work on the last few factions for AFS, and will probably have completed this project by the beginning of 2017, I am already looking at the future and asking myself what I want to do next.

In the AFS thread I stated that I want to use the system I created for A Fantastic Saga again and implement GOT- and LOTR-versions of SAGA with it.

So I will be using the same elements as with AFS: same rules as with the "Warlocks" for any kind of wizard, the "Creatures & Contraptions" unit category to depict monsters, siege machines etc. and the element of "Attributes" to further differentiate units.

But...

what to do first?

In a lot of the forum/messageboards I noticed a spike in interest in GOT, or so it seems, and a decline in interest=topics about LOTR, or so it seems.....

so, I guess I am asking you guys. Are you interested in a GOT- or LOTR-version of Saga?

(And I know, I know... there are already some rules out there...
and I think they are fine, but that these additional elements I developed for AFS can do a better job at creating fitting profiles and an overall coherent, balanced ruleset.)

I dont have a clear preference. LOTR or GOT...


So, what would you guys prefer... AND if you have a favorite, what do you think would be the most important factions to be covered?


So long, guys!
Excited to hear some answers!

[LordOdo]

I'd for sure be most interested in a GoT Saga

For factions, I'd say a lot are quite similar (Lannister, Tyrell etc. are quite interchangeable) therefor it would be cool if you could do some ''more exclusive'' factions as well (say Dothraki, White Walkers, Unsullied). 

Ah well, I'm not sure I can give a good advise, as thusfar I haven't played Saga a lot ( I guess your ruleset will change that drastically )

[Charlie_]

For factions, I'd say a lot are quite similar (Lannister, Tyrell etc. are quite interchangeable) therefor it would be cool if you could do some ''more exclusive'' factions as well (say Dothraki, White Walkers, Unsullied). 

I haven't played Saga myself but I have a rough understanding of the sort of game it is... I think LordOdo is right, it will be suited to more interesting little 'factions'. So rather than a big bash-up of all the major houses, how about something more interesting on a true skirmish scale? The ideal setting would be beyond the wall. Nights Watch rangers, wildling raiders, and of course the Others and the army of the dead. They would all work well in small groups of a dozen or so (that's the sort of scale Saga is, right?).
Another small skirmish scale setting for Westeros could be outlaws and 'broken men'.... Both the Brotherhood Without Banners and other more bloodthirsty groups... Ambushing enemies and being hunted themselves. Could be fun!

[Barbarus]

I haven't played Saga myself but I have a rough understanding of the sort of game it is... I think LordOdo is right, it will be suited to more interesting little 'factions'. So rather than a big bash-up of all the major houses, how about something more interesting on a true skirmish scale? The ideal setting would be beyond the wall. Nights Watch rangers, wildling raiders, and of course the Others and the army of the dead. They would all work well in small groups of a dozen or so (that's the sort of scale Saga is, right?).
Another small skirmish scale setting for Westeros could be outlaws and 'broken men'.... Both the Brotherhood Without Banners and other more bloodthirsty groups... Ambushing enemies and being hunted themselves. Could be fun!

That's actually an interesting approach!
The size of Saga is around 60 models per side. So it is not that small...
It's just the perfect size, if you ask me. Not too large, not too small. It's good visually... certainly looks like a (small) battle.

The themes you mention fit really well. These kind of raids and Saga's size of the forces on the table...

[Nord]

Lord of the Rings for me please, just putting the finishing touches to my Rohan force (and already have uruk hai and orcs ready to battle). Eventually I will also have Dwarfs and Elves, just in case you are wondering where to start. 

[Vermis]

So rather than a big bash-up of all the major houses, how about something more interesting on a true skirmish scale? The ideal setting would be beyond the wall. Nights Watch rangers, wildling raiders, and of course the Others and the army of the dead. They would all work well in small groups of a dozen or so (that's the sort of scale Saga is, right?).

That was my initial idea. North of the wall seems to be largely disregarded in gaming, and while I can understand wanting to represent some of the range of different houses and bands in the southlands, the north has a fair variety too. Just within the catch-all of 'wildlings' you have the standard wildlings themselves, Thenns (could be a whole faction themselves, if we're still alllowed to use that word ), skinchangers and their animals, giants, mammoths, perhaps even renegade Nights Watch. White Walkers can include all of the above, in zombie form! You might also be able to shoehorn in bits of Stannis Baratheon's northward retreat, Mormonts, Skagosi, Iron Islanders, or those highlander clans that popped up out of nowhere in one of the later books.

[tomrommel1]

GoT!

[YPU]

I'm quite curious to hear if anybody with a deeper understanding of GoT could actually describe significant differences in the mayor GoT houses. I mean there are some exceptions like the Reeds, but in general I think at most you would need a list for each "warden" One for the north, one for the soutch etc.

[tyrionhalfman]

The only real difference in terms of organisation I can think of is that the northern regions such as the North, Riverlands and Vale are only described as using bows while the southern houses use crossbows. Other than that most unit types would be available to any house. Even the Iron Islands would use cavalry when reaving further inland, probably riding horses bought with the iron price

The main difference won't be when comparing the different houses within the Seven Kingdoms, but when comparing the Wildlings with those South of the Wall, or comparing Westeros with Essos, which is more Middle East or Greek Successor with cavalry archers and phalanxes dominating army organisation.

Just my two pennies worth

[fred]

Saga is far more about the battle board abilities, than the differences in troop types.

Lots of the initial armies shared the same basic Levy, Warriors and Hearthguard stat lines, usually with 1 or 2 differences, such as mounted, or two-handed weapons, or crossbows.

It really is the battle boards that give the flavour and the differences to the armies.

[Argonor]

I think there are already some German fan-made battleboards for SAGA. I even think I have them on my computer at home...

[Barbarus]

Yes, there are several guys here in Germany who made Battleboards for GOT and LOTR.

Some, especially the LOTR-boards are quite popular. But hey, they're in German. Which is nice for us here, but not for the rest of the world.

The thing I don't like about them is, for all "special" units there are unique new profiles in these rules.
Each one of them with special rules etc.
It's just a pain in the ass to memorize and it lacks a certain consistency.

And that is exactly where my system comes in. With the fourth troop category after Hearthguard, Warriors and Levies: "Creatures & Contraptions"

And giving special units special rules in form of the "Attributes". The fact, that these always come from the same, short list of rules makes them easy to memorize. After a while you know all the Attributes' names and know what they do.
This consistency is what I want to bring to a GOT- or LOTR-Saga.

[DivisMal]

LotR for me. But also here try to go with the skirmish ideas developed by the previous commenters. Is Saga really suited to replay the Pelennor Fields?

Id say rather not, but it might be ideal to represent small forces like the rangers of Ithilien, Elven warbands, the dwarf attempt to reconquer Moria.

That would alsp give you plenty of "factions" for the baddies. Moria Orc raiders, Goblin Warbands of the North, Uruk Hai, Corsairs of Umbar etc.

And best of all, plenty of options in either historical 15mm or plastics 28mm to represent the units.

[Argonor]

LotR for me. But also here try to go with the skirmish ideas developed by the previous commenters. Is Saga really suited to replay the Pelennor Fields?

Id say rather not, but it might be ideal to represent small forces like the rangers of Ithilien, Elven warbands, the dwarf attempt to reconquer Moria.

That would alsp give you plenty of "factions" for the baddies. Moria Orc raiders, Goblin Warbands of the North, Uruk Hai, Corsairs of Umbar etc.

And best of all, plenty of options in either historical 15mm or plastics 28mm to represent the units.

I think most conflict in Middle-Earth must have comprised lots of from small to large skirmish level encounters. Only a few really decisive battles were fought in the 3rd Age, whereas a lot of raiding and pillaging, and counter-patrolling must have been going on all the time.

I definitely would like to see AFS bring this kind of warfare to life for Middle-Earth!

[DivisMal]

I think most conflict in Middle-Earth must have comprised lots of from small to large skirmish level encounters. Only a few really decisive battles were fought in the 3rd Age, whereas a lot of raiding and pillaging, and counter-patrolling must have been going on all the time.

I definitely would like to see AFS bring this kind of warfare to life for Middle-Earth!

I do think the same, but in my experience, many people want to go directly to Helms Deep and the Siege of Minas Tirith, while it would make so much more sense to stick to what I always saw as a perfect Late Antiquity/Dark Age setting and stick with raiding warfare.

That way you could really have a unique experience, something in between GWs excellent skirmish and the larger systems.