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Author Topic: The Thaw of '46  (Read 45863 times)

Offline Wyrmalla

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #630 on: June 07, 2019, 09:59:15 PM »
See part 1 on the previous page. :P

Other Project Options?

Elsewhere I've been doing some research into the T-70 as a platform for conversion. Earlier some variants were discussed, and I've since found some more which may have potential.

My current intent is to have a go at making some vehicles which used the T-70 (or similar vehicles like the T-80 as a base, typically through extending the chassis). Currently I have two T-70s, one by Warlord games previously painted as a German vehicle, and another by Blitzkrieg. The German one an serve as a donor with a repaint.

As far as these variants, here's a few more which seem like they have potential.


VT-42 t-70



An attempt to increase the longevity of the T-70 chassis a concept seen on a few vehicles. Done by replacing its main armament with a 45mm long barrel gun with excellent armour penetration (purported to be able to take on German heavy tanks).

This would be a simple conversion just replacing the barrel on the existing tank. Obviously this project ignores the realities of the real vehicles (which sites such as the Tank Archives go into in more detail, as to why these projects failed), and in the fashion of World of Tanks or War Thunder which I'm somewhat aping, I don't tend to modify these prototypes to be a bit more suitable. So yes, the tank with the one man turret would get a larger gun and not address its other shortcomings. :)


T-80



This one is perhaps less outlandish a model, being a vehicle which did see serial production. The T-70 had numerous flaws, which the T-80 attempted to address. Particularly in increasing the turret to two men so the Tank Commander didn't have to deal with three separate jobs including operating the gun. It saw limited service, as the time for light tanks was over.

A bit more involved than the 45mm gun tank, but not that extensive a conversion. I don't believe that anyone makes a 1/56th scale, but I could be wrong and Die Waffenkammer may have it in their archives somewhere. This could also feature the VT-42 gun, though that may muddy the concept a tad. Regardless, the background of the T-80 and its obscure nature would make it suitable for this project even if it actually being real docks it some points.


ZUT-37



One concept to use the chassis for an AA gun. Perhaps more competent than the dual DShK armed prototype, though maybe not as able a platform as those vehicles using extended chassis. It was armed with a 37mm gun and intended for usage against both air and ground targets though didn't see production due to its cramped interior.

Another potentially simple conversion of the T-70. This would involve creating a new turret from scratch and be open topped something I'm not too fond of as that means making an interior and crew. I'm more inclined towards the 45mm armed vehicle, however if I had the time the turrets could be interchangeable between these models.


IS-10 SPG




When a request was made for a new SPG based on the T-70 chassis, two plants were tasked with the project. A third plant volunteered its own design, being the Grozny concern which had developed the Zis-3 gun. Their design was fairly simple a casement on the T-70, with hardly any modification to the rest of the vehicle. Concerns were raised on the limited access to the engine due to the casement extending a bit further than the turret's plate at the back, which among other concerns caused the project to be shelved (I'd note however that this is an issue on the original T-70, where you have to remove the turret and its mounting plate for the same task).

Among all the SPG on the chassis, of which there were a few (even more than the hand full I mentioned in my earlier post ...really, there must be a dozen), this one seems like the most expedient to make. Which is saying something for the nature of Soviet tanks. I like this vehicle as it would suit the Blitzkrieg T-70, which is now lacking a turret, and be something similar to that Panzer II Luchs SPG I made in concept. Just a casement built over the chassis.


There are those other SPGs on the table for conversions as well, though those will come once I can settle on how to do the tracks. I'm still inclined towards the vehicles with the more Hetzer style casements than the variants on the look of the SU-76 (and there were a few of those as well... honestly the amount of attempts at using this chassis for SPGs is silly, though given that we were still seeing conversions Post-War its not unexpected).

For one however, I am always in need of lighter vehicles for actual games. I find my collection filled with heavy vehicles which whilst nice to look at ...don't always offer the most balanced force for playing games with. I'm not want for concepts at least, its just finding the time and inclination to actually build them and for the moment at least my To Do pile for the Soviets seems to be filled with heavier vehicles as usual...


(Other) Other Project Options (not T-70s)

Otherwise I have came across some other ideas for vehicles not on the T-70 chassis which may be worked on down the line.


IS-2U



My continued effort to find something to do with this IS-2 may have finally ended. ...Its like the Soviets just jumped from the KV-1 to the IS-3 in terms of weird prototypes. I managed to find this prototype which seems to fit the bill an IS-2 with progressed towards the pike nose of the IS-3.

The vehicle seems to be largely an IS-2 just with a modified armour layout similar to the later vehicle. Presumably being a prototype which was rolled into a bunch of other improvements to create the IS-3. Luckily a good chunk of the IS-2 seems to remain intact (engine deck/ turret/ running gear) unlike on the IS-3, so seems like a viable conversion compared to just buying an IS-3 kit.


Sd.Kfz 222 in Soviet Service



(Uh, this, but with big stars on it I guess)

I'm also kind of inclined into making one of these. Yes, it would mean more German stuff but that's just a short term problem. As I finish more of the half built stuff I'll have plenty of actual Soviet vehicles and the captured German kit will be a minority.

Anyway, I like the look of the 222 and Rubicon now have their plastic kit. I was thinking of one armed with a PTRD Anti-Tank rifle done up with the usual green paint job and Soviet insignia. It could be interesting (and again I'm picturing some propaganda film where lacking actual enemy equipment older vehicles are used done up in their colours instead).


BMP Prototype ...Things



There's a 1/56th BMP-1 somewhere in my collection which isn't being used. Whilst this is more wistful thinking than something which will likely be turned into anything it is a thought.

Similar running gear to the BMP-1 appears on many earlier Soviet vehicles. If I could use the tracks from the kit which I already have (Sloppy Jalopy I think) then that could work for some of those vehicles and prototypes to complement the T-44s period wise giving the Soviets some more post-war equipment in opposition to the lighter E-Series I suppose. Just a musing. :P


[size=18]Closing (yup, seriously I had to add bloody headings as this was getting too long)[/size]

Here's another of my usual "I've not touched a project in a while, deal with this content dump" posts. Um, I could ask if more shorter consistent posts are preferred, but I know I can't keep to a schedule, so well, deal with it. :)

For the moment I'll try and wrangle some of the guys at my club to run another tank game at some point. The main thing putting that off is that I want more vehicles for the Soviets so that its less of the "German Civil War" battles we've been playing with all my Axis vehicles, so I'd like at least a few more painted before that happens. Another zombie game ideally will be on the table too, which may be less involved depending on how things are balanced (i.e. Not a repeat of the last game where we just unloaded AKs into the horde and it turned into a shooting match).

In either case more terrain is in order, namely those ruins, more soldier corpses and tank traps (the latter two being stuff I'd lost in a box and only painted a portion of). As we've been playing mostly tank games the sparse boards are all right, and I have enough terrain from the rest of my collection to fill in the gaps on your average board, but my preference has always been to fill my boards with about twice as many pieces as every other board in the club that night put together, so there's always more work to be done...

Anyway, more crap to paint. :P

« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 10:02:53 PM by Wyrmalla »

Offline Ultravanillasmurf

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #631 on: June 08, 2019, 08:28:16 AM »
Wow, that is a lot of creative stuff.

Interesting about TWD:AOW having problems with mass firearms. I would have thought it would cause the threat level to reach "Game Over Man!" very fast

Offline Rich H

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #632 on: June 08, 2019, 09:11:49 AM »
 :o

Offline Wyrmalla

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #633 on: June 08, 2019, 10:18:01 AM »
Ah, yeah, TWD doesn't like guns. We found that with a squad of 8 or so models on each side armed with a mix of Assault Rifles and Bolt Actions the threat level didn't reach the Herd point even with everyone shooting every turn. Some models did begin to break near the end, but most seemed to hold out even with middling nerve (the Leaders had better stats).

Though to be honest, TWD's nerve system can be exploited. There's one character who has the highest nerve and can give it to any survivor within a certain distance. In one game I just stuck him and the rest of my survivors on a bus roof and shot at random Walkers - increasing the threat level every turn. The other player's Survivors panicked, mine just stood about with their meagre loot then escaped before the Herd showed up. ...That no name character breaks games. :P

There's a larger version of the game coming out apparently which may be worth a look. As the base game doesn't seem like it wants to scale beyond a dozen at most survivors at a side and a handful of guns without breaking itself. We tend to only play with a hand full of pistols and bolt action rifles in our games so players are forced to be sneaky - but once enough guns have been secured we're still able to start blazing away at the zombies without much concern.


Offline Wyrmalla

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #634 on: June 15, 2019, 12:24:44 AM »
Meanwhile... I've had less time than I thought this week to work on things. Meaning that bits from last week which have been painted, or mostly painted aren't really a focus as I try and come out with more tanks for a game this Tuesday.

Currently the plan's been to give the Soviets more models so they have a bit more choice for figures in this World of Tanks style game we're playing. The Germans have dozens of options (though oddly only one artillery piece...), the Soviets are stuck with 3 Heavy, 2 Lights, and ...that's it.

Which is fine, I've not worked on them for long. Still, its come down to adding three more vehicles to that list this week (I hope).


IS-10 SPG



Here's what's become of this idea. The details are guesswork, as the real vehicle didn't make it past the rough blueprints stage. So they make look the part at least, but could be wildly impractical. Which is fine. Outside of that one blog post I found this thing in nobody probably even knows what this is...

LTTB



This has come along further, now with extra details. Its not perfect, but I'm calling it good enough for some paint.


One of the pair of Maus I have is receiving a repaint too. The turret's been stripped and will be done in Soviet colours, and the hull's having the German insignia painted over with black rectangles & red stars. Along with a general update to the painting, like with the T-44, as I'm not happy with how it looked (too much dry brushing).


These three vehicles then count as a SPG, Medium and Super Heavy Tanks. The first two are going to receive the same all green paint job as every other Soviet vehicle I have (maybe slightly different - I'm running out of a particular shade of green paint...).

I'd rather keep things simple and have each side easily identifiable. The Soviets will be a simple Green, the Germans coming in White or Tan. We had enough issues identifying the living soldiers from the dead in our Zombie game this week. ;)


There'll be a post up at some point in the future with those things I painted last week, probably some shots of the Zombie game's table, and it'll likely run on into what we play this Tuesday as well through all my rushing to paint these last two models.

Offline Ballardian

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #635 on: June 15, 2019, 03:49:31 PM »

 Always interesting to see your scatchbuild/kitbashes, they often provide inspiration :)

Offline Ultravanillasmurf

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #636 on: June 15, 2019, 05:44:05 PM »
Another great batch of weird war vehicles.

Very creative. I look forward to seeing them painted.

Offline Wyrmalla

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #637 on: June 17, 2019, 11:43:15 AM »
A game's still set for tomorrow (um, I think. ...Better send an email), and I now have these three done for then. Yup, ideally (if I remember) I'll take some shots of that. Then post them here with last week's Zombie game, and perhaps some more painted stuff later in the week. ...There's a load of images on my hard drive in need of editing, ah, what few are actually focused. Some of them even aren't blurry shots of random shots of chairs or Irn Bru bottles. ;)





Maus








The Maus now repainted in Soviet hands - now with a dirty big Hammer and Sickle on the side of the turret. God I hate painting stars.

This was an opportunity to repaint the original hull a bit - this being the Warlord Maus I had, rather than Blitzkrieg's kit. I tried to reign back the dry brushing I'd done first, before adding the usual grime. In future I'd like to work on my dust effects - though its always a process of improvement (I already hate this thing. It'll have another repaint in a few years...).

This will fill in the Soviet's Super Heavy category for the moment. I can't say I'm a fan of really large vehicles - in part because they're an arse to store - but it just wouldn't be proper to not give them something they actually made. That's for another day. ...Maybe it'll be an opportunity to use that bloody Tamiya IS-2 kit I still have. :P


LTTB






"Light Tank Heavy Armour". 1944's idea of what a light tank was supposed to be, before the Soviets gave up on the idea and just kept their lighter vehicles on with the airborne troops.

This thing looks like a smaller T-43 or later Sheridan, though isn't that far off of a T-34 size wise. Which I guess showed just how obsolete things like the T-80 were by that stage in the war.

With it being made from a 1/72nd IS-2 kit - just widened and with the suspension sitting higher - it isn't perfect. There's a noticeable gap between the drive sprocket at the back and rear mudguards. And the engine deck wound up being too wide, so it lacks diamond shaped hull profile when viewed from above. Um, hopefully none of you are World of Tanks players who'll be jumping on me over that. :P

Out of the three tanks today I think its my favorite. Its not perfect, more of a wargaming piece than a proper scale model, but that's what all of these things are for. ...And its not like anyone else has built one of these in this scale. At least its away from the build pile finally.


IS-10 SPG






A less elegant example of the Soviet practice of sticking a box on a tank chassis. ...Their conversions of Panzer III looked less crude.

Blitzkrieg T-70 has less detail on their tracks than Die Waffenkammer's Tiger II, so received the usual mud treatment to cover up how poor some of these 1/56th scale tracks can be. ...Just nobody call me out on all the mud again; at least its toned down from how much I used to apply (see the Maus for reference). :P


This leaves a T-44 and the T-34/54 thing in my immediate build area. Not that they may actually be what's worked on next (I could dump the lot and go play with my Elder Scrolls figures...). For the moment the T-34's in need of having its turret rebuilt (the original details were crap), which is what's holding me back from finishing it. The T-44's looking like it may be turned into the T-44/100 model. I'll get to another 85mm armed T-44 eventually.


« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 11:52:11 AM by Wyrmalla »

Offline Ultravanillasmurf

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #638 on: June 17, 2019, 09:26:18 PM »
Nice work.

Offline Wyrmalla

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #639 on: June 18, 2019, 11:14:54 PM »
Just a small follow up tonight. I started working on another vehicle this morning. This one will be a more suitable "Tank Destroyer" as far the rules I'm using are concerned -rather than the smaller T-70 based SPG (though neither really were built for the role in their original design briefs.



The SG-122 was another attempt at converting captured German vehicles into something usable by Soviet Plants. Similar to the SU-76i it involved building a new super structure over captured StuG IIIs. This one would serve as a self propelled Howitzer rather than a Tank Destroyer like the SU-76i, but it will look the part for my needs.


(SU-76i)

Only a dozen or so were built. They were issued to field units, though soon replaced by Soviet built vehicles. Eventually they'd see service and mostly be destroyed, with from the scant research I did only a replica surviving to this day (presumably as the Soviets were building the SU series fast enough to not need them any more). So this is another case of a vehicle actually being real, and seeing service, however its still something obscure; fitting the design brief of this blog. :)



I'm in the process of making this vehicle out of a Panzer III kit I'd already used for another conversion. One of a treo of Panzer IIIs with sloped armour which I'd put together after buying them by accident instead of Panzer IVs. The models are over used in games, and I'm not a fan of the design, so one was for the chop.

So far I've stripped the model back to the Panzer III and built the basic casement. Now its onto adding the hatches, gun and large stowage items before going into the details. The real vehicles seem to be missing some of the smaller Panzer III parts - likely when it was being turned into the new vehicle - so there isn't as much rebuilding necessary from where I had to removed things in my original conversion.

Offline Rich H

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #640 on: June 19, 2019, 06:40:05 AM »
Cool - I've used a force of SU-76is before - I built and cast them.

Never seen that one though!  122mm I guess?

Shows how many PzIIIs they captured!


Offline Wyrmalla

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #641 on: June 19, 2019, 04:57:37 PM »
From the Tank Archives article: http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2017/07/sg-122-assault-gun-on-foreign-chassis.html

"Factory #592 was tasked with rearming the Pz38(t) with the 20 mm TNSh autocannon or 45 mm gun, the PzIII with a 45 mm gun, and the PzIV with the 76 mm F-34 gun. As for the StuG III, the GAU wanted to install the 122 mm M-30 howitzer.

In reality, the last item on the list was the only one worked on."

With the requirement also to increase the height of the StuG III's fighting compartment, the opinion that they could mount a larger gun on the chassis, and an earlier call for a 122mm armed vehicle in 1941 - which at the time they weren't able to mount on the T-34 - presumably led to this project. Eventually they did come out with the SU-122, so the SG-122s were replaced in their first deployment and moved to another artillery unit lacking vehicles.

...It goes to show how many StuG IIIs were captured, and how much the Soviets (engineers at least) disliked them. Though the main issue was them running out of ammunition, so like the SU-76i fitting their own gun and doing some other improvements seemed logical till they were making more T-34 SPGs.

If you read through that website's articles there was a few calls for tanks mounting various guns. Which is where all those T-70 prototypes came from as they tried to do anything to justify continuing producing the chassis. Most weren't achieved, or at least there isn't information out on them.

Yeah, there are models of the SU-76i out there in 1/56th, which is why I went for this instead. There's enough fodder out there for similar conversions of German vehicles which were never built to have a go at what ifs inspired by these two SPG.


Offline Rich H

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #642 on: June 19, 2019, 10:40:53 PM »
Love the tank archive.

Looks a bit nose heavy!

Offline Wyrmalla

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #643 on: June 19, 2019, 11:01:50 PM »
If its going to drive 100 miles and be blown up, the transmission collapsing at 150 isn't a problem.  8)

The actual usage listed on the Tank Archives seems to imply they used them till they broke down or were lost in action. Which seems to be the same as the SU-76i and other captured German tanks. Presumably through the Soviets being desperate at the time, and eventually pumping out more of their own stuff that they could be replaced. Not that I would want to be landed with something which would eventually fall apart. Though its not like the original German vehicles were all amazing to begin with in terms of maintenance.


Tonight's project has been something different. I'm having a go at making a Panzer IV armed with a Soviet 76mm gun. Not an exact copy of that post-war Bulgarian conversion as its using T-34 parts instead of the gun off an SU-76. Its a pity that most of this model's been salvaged from the bits box. So ah, I have barely touched the weird looking turret. Instead the cut up parts of a Panzer IV are now bodged together, with a load of plasticard recreating the rest. ...I guess this will be an opportunity to hand wave some bits not being 100% the same as the real vehicles as the Soviets replace broken parts with whatever they could throw together.

...This may be my first Panzer IV which actually looks like the original tank and not some sloped armoured mess. :)

Offline Ultravanillasmurf

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Re: The Thaw of '46
« Reply #644 on: June 20, 2019, 08:36:18 AM »
Creative as ever, I look forward to seeing what you make of them.

 

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