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Author Topic: Sculpting Plains Indians (Cheyenne)  (Read 50850 times)

Offline pallard

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Pawnee)
« Reply #405 on: December 06, 2020, 09:47:18 PM »
Assiniboine are Siouans linguistically, so they could be looking like Dakota Sioux. But the Ojibwa are Algonquian speaking people and quite different. Both hunters couldn't recognize each other as different from a Sioux common enemy!

Offline Clearco

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Pawnee)
« Reply #406 on: December 07, 2020, 11:12:19 AM »
Good point, and a very interesting one!  :) On the Plains there were a fair amount of admixture, people marrying into each others tribes, being adopted or captured, or being from mixed blood. Looting, trading and exchanging presents between tribes made it also difficult adscribe someones to a tribe according to his belongings BUT tribal style *tendences* did exist, even if they weren't applicable for every individual. It also depends on the area of the Plains and on the time.

Osage looked indeed very similar to Pawnee, and these to Iowa, Otto, Ponca, Kansa, Sauk and Fox (eastern Prarie peoples). There are some minor details or tendences (certain items of dress, use of colors, adornments) that sometimes enable to tell individuals of these tribes apart even if the general style is similar, even if that doesn't has to work always.

In a similar fashion, a Crow warrior *could* be hardly distinguishable from a Nez Perce or from some Blackfoot or Shoshone, and they all share a sort of cultural area, so to speak, that englobes part of the northern Plains, the Platteau and part of the Rockies.

At some point I doubt someone could tell a Teton Sioux from a Cheyenne and these from a Arapaho apart (and some southern Cheyenne from some Kiowas, etc.), but again, they lived relatively close to another in the same area, were allies and had the possibility of sharing items, customs, etc. very intensively.

I would say it depends on the individual and the time...When the century went on (specially with the advent of the reservation period and the mixture of tribes) some tribal styles became homogeneous and warriors tended to grow more and more indistinguishable from another. Some later photos show Pawnee warriors with the hair parted in the middle, two braids and a hairpipe necklace of whom you would think they are Cheyenne (but I doubt someone would think they are Crow ;-))

That also occurs at earlier times: if you look at pictures of Plains warriors in the 1830's (Bodmer, Catlin, Miller), Crow, Blackfoot, Hidatsa and Arikara (and in a minor extent, Mandan), all neighboring tribes at some extent. share a common style too and sometimes it's hard to tell them appart (even if differences exist). Others again, like Pawnee or Osage and other Prarie tribes, stand clearly appart from the rest. According to some scholars, some tribal styles apearead after these days (with the growing availability of trade goods), and some others got blurry 30-40 years later, so there is a certain narrow window, say roughly between 1840s-1870s when it could have been a bit easier to distinguish peoples (with exceptions, as always).

Personally I suppose it was always easier to distinguish a group of people than an only individual though, because there were more probabilities of seeing several „tribal“ characteristics in the group, even if some warriors didn’t look so “characteristic” at all. In the case of an only warrior is a bit of a hit or miss, I think.

In the case of wargaming and, above all, sculpting wargame figures, I think a compromise has to be made and tribal tendences have to be acentuate so we can distinguish both forces on our tiny battlefields. With wargame figures it happens all the time, almost in every „wargame-able“ age: some characteristics are exagerated so the forces look a bit more homogeneous (I'm looking at you, Romans!) or at least easier to tell appart from another. There are lots of examples in wargame figures because so it’s easier to handle and it somehow pleases esteticaly, even if it’s maybe a tad less accurate.

In my case, I want to portray warriors who „clearly“ belong to a tribe, because I think there are enough generic Plains indians figures out there that can be mixed with mine to add variety if someone wishes so, but not enough figures that you can identify with a certain tribe (appart from Conquest-now-Warlord magnificent Comanche). In doing so, I try to furnish every figure with at least one element that yells „Crow!“ or „Pawnee!“ but keeping things as realistic as possible :) . I was inspired by the way Plains Indians portrayed themselves in ledger drawings, where they often acentuate some characteristics so the people seeing them quickly identify who the enemy are (Crow wear almost always the pompadour hairstyle, Pawnee have high-cuffed moccasins and normaly more or less roached hair, etc.). I started making figures that looked like the Crow portrayed by Catlin and Bodmer in the 1830’s and quickly realized, most people wouldn’t identify them as Crow, so a compromise was to be made. It’s the same in case of Pawnee: some wore long hair, some hadn’t the roach, but when people think of Pawnee, they think of the roached warriors on „Dances with Wolves“ 😊

Whops, my digression turned out very long, sorry about that! :P I just like the subject :)

Offline has.been

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Pawnee)
« Reply #407 on: December 07, 2020, 12:04:29 PM »
Tis good that you like your chosen subject. Do not apologize for that.

Offline pallard

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Pawnee)
« Reply #408 on: December 07, 2020, 01:28:05 PM »
And enlightening it is! Thanks a lot.
Philippe

Offline Harry von Fleischmann

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Pawnee)
« Reply #409 on: December 11, 2020, 12:50:24 PM »
Absolutely, a cracking post!

Offline Clearco

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Painted Crow)
« Reply #410 on: December 23, 2020, 05:46:58 PM »
Thank you fellows! :)
Btw, inspired by the discussion, I have been working on some figures who are generic enough to be used as Lakota, Cheyenne or Arapaho, among others and can be used to booster your tribal forces. After that I plan to sculpt some proper Cheyenne with clear Cheyenne features ;)

Moreover, I'd like to show you some more painted Crows, this time a belt wearer of the Big Dog society and the sash wearer of the Muddy Hands, painted by Field Factory:


 

« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 07:14:03 PM by Clearco »

Offline marco55

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Pawnee)
« Reply #411 on: December 23, 2020, 06:47:35 PM »
Thank you fellows! :)
Btw, inspired by the discussion, I have been working on some figures who are generic enough to be used as Lakota, Cheyenne or Arapaho, among others and can be used to booster your tribal forces. After that I plan to sculpt some proper Cheyenne with clear Cheyenne features ;)

Moreover, I'd like to show you some more painted Crows, this time a belt wearer of the Big Dog society and the sash wearer of the Muddy Hands, painted by Field Factory:



These are excellent.Beautiful painting.
Mark

Offline Clearco

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Scout)
« Reply #412 on: December 28, 2020, 05:13:28 PM »
Thanks!

I show you my last figure:






Among the Plains Indians the wolf was often associated with scouts (scouts were often named "wolves"). Some of them even wore the skins of wolfs while scouting. The Crow chief Plenty Coups tells about Crow scouts:

"Then they came in, looking exactly like wolves. Each had mud ears, and his face, arms and body were painted with mud that dries whitish-gray, exactly the color of a wolf's hair. Thrown over their shoulders and backs were wolf skins, with heads (...)"

From: Frank B. Linderman: Plenty Coups- Chief of the Crows. University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, 1962. Page 67.

This figure is generic enough to be used as a scout for several Plains tribes
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 07:13:33 PM by Clearco »

Offline Malamute

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Pawnee)
« Reply #413 on: December 28, 2020, 05:26:34 PM »
I like him.  :)
"These creatures do not die like the bee after the first sting, but go on age after age, feeding on the blood of the living"  - Abraham Van Helsing

Offline rumacara

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Pawnee)
« Reply #414 on: December 28, 2020, 06:30:58 PM »
Me too. :D

Can we expect a pack of scouts????? :D

Offline BillK

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Pawnee)
« Reply #415 on: December 28, 2020, 08:11:14 PM »
Great work this Wolf-Scout figure.

Same question as rumacara, a pack of Scouts in the making?

Offline Clearco

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Pawnee)
« Reply #416 on: January 13, 2021, 07:11:39 PM »
There will be another wolf scout for sure :) I'd like to sculpt some scouts in US Army service but there are no concrete plans yet.

Meanwhile I have sculpted some things:
First, a "multi-purpose" brave. He is simple and versatile enough to be used as a member of several tribes. There will be two packs of these: one with traditional weapons, one with guns.









Second:
The first Cheyenne warrior:






I hope you like them!

Offline Malamute

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Cheyenne)
« Reply #417 on: January 14, 2021, 08:36:45 AM »
I like them very much. :-*

Offline BillK

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Re: Sculpting Plains Indians (Cheyenne)
« Reply #418 on: January 15, 2021, 02:58:59 PM »
Your work just keeps getting better and better.
Appreciate you keeping this thread updated and showing the WIP photos.
Interested in seeing the U.S. Army Scouts.

Really looking forward to Badger Games getting everything in-stock. (My order has now jumped from just the Pawnee sets to include Wolf Scouts and Cheyenne when they are available.)

 

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