Planning My Post-45 (Mostly) Realistic Alternative Second World War in 15mm

[Ryltar Thamior]

Proof that I am actually painting things ...

First pass at a Konigstiger. [apologies for poor lighting]



Obviously, there's a few rough edges here and there to clean up, but for the most part it's ready for the application of a camouflage scheme over the top of the dunkelgelb.







The Dunkelgelb in question is GW's 'Zandri Dust' - have the proper Battlefront paints etc, but haven't used them at all on these thus far after some rather questionable results [probably due ot me not being used to them] attempting to do a 1:100 scale BTR-80 as a 'tester'.

Once these're finished, it'll be on to some of the more 'weird' stuff - the a-historical IFVs, armoured Panzergrenadiers [yes, a tautology of sorts there], and that Ratte

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due to the ever-present hobby ADHDery, may also , the next time i'm down the local scale-model-shoppe pick up some of the rather cheap and easily assembleable 1/100 Zvezda armour kits they've got on hand there. Not to be put together 'stock', of course, but with a view to test-bedding some repurposed uses for these designs [wehther perhaps a conversion of a Tiger chassis into a 'heavy' APC; or possibly some form of rocket or missile artillery platform] - at ten dollars a pop or thereabouts, they're rather lower in price than the equivalent Battlefront plastics. And if i'm in the mood to start workign on the Soviet OPFOR, that'll be handy as well.

Also entertaining hte idea of some kitbashery/conversion for later/hypothetical German armour based around 1/72 and/or 1/76 scale vehicles. The issue with that will be doing the appropriate research, browsing through ranges etc. to see what looks plausible/credible as a basis for what, and with what alterations.

Did take a brief look around for 'stock' paper-panzers in 15mm ; although with Heer46's online shop still showing sold outs for their E-series , I think that basically leaves Forged In Battle [although I seem to remember Khurasan mooting some offerings in this area previously - pity their site's *also* on hiatus].

[Ballardian]

 Yes, it's pity to have to wait for Heer 46's restock. Khurasan's alt WWII range is still very small, but there is a good E-25 & I believe they have a T-44 coming (but as you mentioned, their site is one currently down for maintenance - though you could try dropping him a line). Peter Pig produce a decent Schmalturm that should fit most Panthers & you could always convert it to the 88 bearing version (even if it'd never actually have fitted). FiB stuff is generally pretty good & it does have a few '46 type vehicles.

[carlos marighela]

I like the idea of the tinsel on the sides, it gives it a Christmassy look.

[Ryltar Thamior]

I like the idea of the tinsel on the sides, it gives it a Christmassy look.

Delivering 88mm shells, of course. They'll look a bit different once they're inked up, one hopes (which'll also bring out the zimmerit more) Although I'm actually surprised how bright the Leadbelcher came out - it's usually much darker (as can be seen with the extra tracks on the turret, for instance.

And now we attempt to find a decent GW-range equivalent for the appropriate rotbraune

[Ballardian]

 

And now we attempt to find a decent GW-range equivalent for the appropriate rotbraune

- here are a couple of links to GW - other paint brand lists.

dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart

spikeybits.com/2016/09/vallejo-to-gw-paint-conversion-chart-pdf.html

 You should be able to pin down what you're looking for with these.

[Ryltar Thamior]

ah yup; legit. Thanks for the guides!

Took a look through but couldn't see much direct for equivalencies, but via a bit of additional triangulation ... Doombull Brown looks ok for red-brown; Castellan Green for Olivegrun; and that'll make for three-tonne camo in combination with the uh .. Zandrigelb.

I do, however, see yon Dakka-guide's got Stormvermin Fur down for German Grey - and an exact match for Dunkelgrau at that, according to [ http://stugiii.com/germanvehiclecamouflage.html ] ... [which is peculiar as it's listed on GW's website as a brown] ; ;although rather peculiarly, also lists Karak Stone as a match for what i've been using for Dunkelgelb

[Ultravanillasmurf]

This might be of help (Lead Legion colour scheme).



The Citadel colours are (vertically, left to right):
Castellan Green; Zandri Dust; Death Guard (Snot Womble) Green.
Rakarth Flesh; Bleached Bone (discontinued); Ceramite White; Pallid Wych Flesh; Rotting Flesh (discontinued); Castellan Green.
Bleached Bone (discontinued); Rakarth Flesh; Pallid Wych Flesh; Kislev Flesh; Rotting Flesh (discontinued).

Same colours, different lighting here:

http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/lead-legion-colours.html

This Perry Kubelwagen is in Zandri dust.


Rubicon (WIP) Panther in PSC DunkelGelb spray with Citadel Mournfang Brown and Humbrol Light Tan stripes.

[von Lucky]

Will follow this thread with interest.

[Ryltar Thamior]

Oh wow! Excellent resource, those colour-profiles you've worked up Ultravanillasmurf! It's one of the most infuriating things about attempting to pick out colours online before buying 'em [in-shop] - the way the 'genuine article' isn't easily predictable by the monotone and not-with-acutal-light-on-it preview we see en pixel!

What you've got there also confirms that Castellan Green looks to be the juice for my olivegrun. Have got some Mournfang handy - and it's what i've been using for the 'wooden' bits on these King Tigers; although for the actual 'brown' parts of a three-tone, i'm not sure it'll be either red or dark enough. But bridges and crossing when come to raher than presuming the paras can hold it or something to taht effect

Will also make it a lot easier to attempt to sort out which flavoure of olive-ish drabbishness to use for the Soviet opposition when we get to that ... as I've seen from people painting up their Team Yankee Soviets of late, it's about on par with the various debates about what the proper Dunkelgelb is for diversity

Aaanyway ... it's about 04:00 where I am, and all the various model & wargaming stores are, predictably, closed. [I'm not sure how well a 24-hour miniature/rgp bricks-and-mortar vendor would do .. but that's perhasp an idea for another time].

But that's the thing about late at night! It's when the Tigers come out! Or, at least, I don't sleep easily, and had an urge to play around with my toy tanks...



Have experimented with two 'innovations' - the first, a grey-and-gelb bitonal scheme inspired by the E-100 I posted on the previous page of the thread. Obviously, it's not finished, hard-edged properly yet because i just wanted to see how it would look. I have to say, it's not bad even at this unfinished stage! Not *entirely* sure how effective it is at visual disruption, but it's a start... Looks a little more 'finished' anyway than the straight-up Dunkelgelb that's in the center [ the first one I did from earlier in the thread].



Meanwhile, *also* decided to see how the zimmerit etc. would look if i'd just gone straight-grey in an imitation of the early-war panzers, with the turret on the Konigstiger that uh .. broke down just from looking at it. I have to say - it looks really nice!



I might go for some historical-breaking bits and pieces later on and do some Panzers up in the straight grey scheme for exactly that reason.







Like I said - absolutely nothing's finished. I just wanted to have a bit of a play around ot see what looked good as a general template.

Meanwhile, a Tech-Priest [in the teclis blue] looks on, possibly shaking his head at my lack of obeisance to the proper manuals of German Armour pigmentation

Thoughts etc. welcome!

And at this stage, i think I might do something a bit closer to the traditional 'tritonal' once i) i've got the paints to do it; ii) on the next round of German armour, whether Panzers or IFVs. The logic with this, particularly if it's the rocket tank destroyers, is that hanging further back in cover and launching top-TOW attacks or whatever, is something far more in keeping with what ambush-camo was designed for in the first place.

Oh, that's a sudden thought .. I might wind up having to research WWII Soviet tank camo at this rate ...

[Ryltar Thamior]

Oh, and ONE MORE THING ... Had a conversation with an associate bout potential timeline bits and pieces; and while i'm not in a position slash toooooo fussed bout getting into the nitty-gritty of such things, he did reiterate the concept we've taken to calling "Commonwealth Secundus" [let's see who gets the reference ].

Now, i'll probably wind up fleshing all this out at a later date and in a future post; but suffice to say, it creates scope for the British to still *sort-of* be involved, via the Antipodean Colonies, India [although that'll be subject to Bose's Free Indian Legion no doubt] and the like - who will all presumably be putting effort into maintaining lines of communication with each other, and also attempting to hold the line against the Axis. [And, alongside this, the British colonies in Africa including South Africa]

Which brings us to the Middle East. As noted, Iran would likel ystill be under joint Anglo-Soviet occupation - and would be being used to funnel forces to the Middle Eastern territories still possilby held by the Commonwealth such as Syria and Iraq [which iirc had a local uprising called hte Golden Square or something similar] ... but also to Egypt, with its Suez Canal.

Now, what THAT leads to .. is the possibility for a 'Desert War' between the Germans et co against the Commonwealth for both the Suez Canal - as well as the potential of striking up into the oil-fields of Iran etc. that're presumably playing quite an important role in keeping the Empire's [well, what remains of her, anyway] war-machine running. It'd be interesting [although probably militarily seriously difficult] to attempt to push trhough Iraq/Iran into the USSR *behind* the Urals, but hey.

Aaaanyway ... in terms of British force development - this would mean the same sort of stuff we're doing ofr the Germans and Soviets; namely, historically available vehicles like the Comets and Cromwells ... but ALSO, quite possibly Centurions and such-like [There'd also be scope for APC-conversions of Churchills in the Kangaroo manner]; oh, and the usual British light-tanks and armoured cars [I note Battlefront does a Boarhound in their "Mid-War Monsters" range that'll be quite cool for exactly this].

I'm not too o-fay with British tank development and strategy so will require some guidance onthis; but the vibe i'm getting here is that the Brits may attempt to do things similar to how the Chadians took on the Libyans during the 'Toyota War' - rapier application of swift force to get in to side and behind armour, take advantage of slow turret traverses etc. .. for which hte aforementioned armoured cars and swift tanks will no doubt come in handy.

Oh and, of course, LDRG raids and suchlike.

In terms of anti-tank weaponry, ther's obviouslyl the PIATs and recoilless rifles [perhaps jeep-mounted, as the Israelis did] ... but there's ALSO an Australian/UK developed ATGM dating from the early-50s that it might not be entirely inconceivable for the Commonwealth to have started getting to grips with [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malkara_(missile) ] .

Not to mention .. Marines and more Marines and Paras and what not.

THere may be additional scope for fixed defensive lines guarding the Canal.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

I did some post war Warlord US.
http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/post-war-bolt-action-miniatures.html

I used Citadel Deathworld Forest for uniforms.

[Ballardian]

 Good to see your project progressing
  Your choices for British afv's are fortunately fairly easy - after all we have the designs developed from '42 onwards entering service & staying there (with the last Centurion, an AVRE vehicle, leaving service after the first Gulf War).
 I suppose, for alt purposes we'd see the usual suspects; Cromwells gradually being relegated to recon duties (as they were in Korea), with their speed making them a still useful armoured car alternative.
 Comets might have seen greater service in a protracted war, taking over as the main British-produced medium (though I imagine there'd still be a good number of M4's - the US still being the main armour producer for the western allies). The Charioteer might be a possibility, jamming a 20pdr onto now-obsolete Cromwell hulls might have been forced into existance earlier than its actual 1952 birth by necessity, giving you a successor to the Challenger - sadly I don't think a model is available, but its simple slab-sided turret wouldn't be too challenging to scratch-build.
Then there's the Centurion, arguably the first time British Tank designers hit it out of the park. Armed with a 17pdr, till '48 saw it replaced with the QF 20pdr - again this might be accelerated by the protraction of the conflict. I believe a couple of companies have plastic ones planned (though I think they're L7 105mm MkV's or later), but at the moment the BF resin -pewter IDF ones might be the only ones out there (nope, just realised butlersprintedmodels.co.uk/15mm/post-ww2/british.html do both MkI & MKIII models).
 The British heavy tank programme did throw up a few potential oddities, the FV200/300... series proposed three tanks of increasing weight classes, up to one-hundred tons (they binned the idea, possibly after taking a look at the E-100 hull they got from Paderborn & realising hundred ton tanks were a stupid idea). Other than the Centurion (which they decided, correctly, could cover most of their requiements) this process produced the FV214 Conqueror (1955), which filled the 'heavy' role - how much earlier it could have appeared is debatable, the design process began in 1944 & it usually took about two years to get to a functional prototype ready to transition to production (though obviously rather longer in this case). The Conqueror (or FV221 Caernarvon for its initial type - yes, the earlier vehicle has the later number) seems like it might have been a decent vehicle (side armour might have been a little weak)  in some ways a little like a Churchill - excellent cross country performance & hill climbing, heavy frontal armour, (180-250mm) but slow & thirsty. Its L1 120mm gun (the initial Caernarvon version having the 20pdr - which became irrelevant after it was fitted to the Centurion) capable of putting a hole in anything around at the time. Again, unfortunately, I don't think a model in 15mm exists.
 As to armoured cars, Britain had quite a few models that continued in service long after the actual war ended, so Daimler, Humber & AEC vehicles are all fair game.

[Ryltar Thamior]

Went out for a bit of a walk this afternoon...



This is the WWII-relevant part of the haul: a Panther, Jagdtiger, Opel Blitz [coz the logistics trail i'm building up is uh..], and Tiger; plus an SU-100 and SU-152 [i suspect the kit may also make some other form of assault gun] to start building up the Soviet Opposition.



Oh and in the mean-time ...



We managed to put together the Ratte



The rear AA positions ma find themselves replaced at some future stage with SAM missile-pods or similar; and we noted iwth some interest that the Maus turrets *also* fit on the same mountings...



Even in 1:144 scale, ti's still a preetty impressive looking piece of kit!







Now, the *next* step [othe r than painting] is going to be to work out what to call this 'smaller scale' Ratte. Which will be a production model with some of the silliness worked out or something. Some other scale of rodent, perhaps? Or something a little more 'grunty' - like one of the goats that pulls Thor's chariot? Dread Sagittary? [this inspired by Agis' centaur on his full 1:100 scale Ratte] We'll have to see ...



Aanyway .. full-shot of everything built this afternoon.

Gosh I'm glad I bought an additional pot of Abaddon Black for undercoating with [pretty much entirely for the Ratte - which also went through an entire tube of superglue *by itself*] earlier this week!

[Ultravanillasmurf]

Impressive.

So what is the kit moulded in if you have to use superglue
 Rather than poly/liquid poly?

[von Lucky]

Nice one - quite a haul! Where in New Zealand did you manage to find that range of models? I only found a great little store in Taupo.

the baby Ratte could be the Meerschweinchen?