Tips on Two Hour Wargames?

[Hobgoblin]

I recently downloaded the free 2D6 Sword and Sorcery and Swordplay rules, both of which look interesting. I'll probably buy one of the other rulesets fairly soon: it feels only right to buy something from people who have provided games for free, for one thing, and the AI stuff in those games looks really good (and quite easily combined with ASOBH to create "multiplayer vs AI baddies" games, if I end up preferring the ASOBH combat mechanics, which are fast and detailed).

But there seem to be a lot of different 2HW games out there - at least two versions of Warrior Heroes, for example, plus the Dungeon Crawl game and Legends of Araby. And then there's Rally Round the King for massed battles. And I gather that Warrior Heroes: Legends also has dungeon-crawl rules.

Does anyone have experience with these games? If so, any guidance much appreciated!

[Conquistador]

Own many of these, played a bit.  What specifically are you wondering about?

[Hobgoblin]

Basically, what are the strengths of each set of the fantasy rules? Which of the four or five available would you recommend, and why?

I know, for instance, that RRTK is a mass-battle set that uses HOTT bases sizes. But the delineations between the four other sets seem a bit less clear.

Thanks!

[Conquistador]

Before I try and stumble through the differences and history of why the versions exist I sent Ed Teixeira an email asking him to put his knowledge to work on this thread.

[Conquistador]

Ed is having to re-register due to the joys of the internet but once that is straightened out by the Moderators he will gladly answer your questions - the best answers come from the right source.

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks! Very much appreciated!

[Conquistador]

Twohourwargames@gmail.com Is Ed's email.

There seems to have been some issue with his old ID/password and White Knight passed the matter to the Admins.

I am sure it will be worked today.

[Momotaro]

We tend to play with the basic Chain Reaction and Swordplay rules.  They have gone through many updates, and the latest versions have reaction tables that come to a conclusion swiftly (earlier versions could have you reacting back and forth a dozen times!).

I'm loath to say too much on the latest versions of the rules, as I tend to have 1st editions.  I think the biggest differences are between what each tries to achieve.

Legends of Araby is very much a single-side roleplaying campaign, where you travel to various places and meet people, deal with them, make enemies and so forth.  How it's changed in the latest version I don't know, but Fringe Space, Ed's latest roleplaying SF game, was concentrating more on the campaign side and the armed encounters were becoming much more streamlines - fewer reactions, and a smaller 1ft by 1ft encounter area.  I kind of liked that a little less.

The other games are new enough to have the "Potential Encounter Force" for same-side gaming - as you come onto the board, there are "indications" that something is "over there" - could be nothing, could be an encounter that's friendly or an enemy.  It's a neat way of having programmed encounters.

WH:AA is a tabletop gaming campaign for a small group, with the intention that you have encounters, battles, dungeon crawls - perhaps more of a tabletop game that Legends of Araby.  Wasn't hugely impressed by the magic rules first time round, but the campaign is solid and the game includes a game world with certain factions aligned in different ways.  It basically expands on Swordplay with a campaign world.

WH:Legends I don't know at all.

Rally Round the King is quite a different beast.  As you say, it's for massed battles, and the campaign is directed at this level of play - border skirmishes slip slowly towards war, a peace is made, etc.  One think I do like (you may not) is that you get a core army and then dice for your remaining forces - perhaps more realistic if you have a big collection, easily ignored if you don't (there are points costs in there too).  I do recall the army lists being quite short, but the reaction tables are neatly split by force and troop type.

I would try a game out with Swordplay first.  Be aware that things like the In-Sight reaction test varies enormously between many of the THW games, and the HTH combat rules also change over time.  The shooting tables, on the other hand, are almost unchanged over 15 years of gaming!

Oh yeah - when you buy a THW game, you get everything you need.  If vehicle and space combat are part of a typical campaign, they will be in there.  It's just that there is, as you noticed, likely to be another game that does each of those in more detail, with a campaign that's more focused on that style of game.  Don't be put off.

For different reaction results and statuses, tokens are very useful.  Litko make THW-specific ones in acrylic, but Trolltrader on eBay does a nice range of generic tokens in acrylic too, under the TTCombat section, and they're a bit cheaper to get in the UK.  There's also a TTCombat website now.

If you get bored rolling on tables, I know that Ed sold a deck of loot/encounter cards for All Things Zombie, and it would be fairly straightforward to make your own.

They're very different games, and a lot of folks don't like them.  They're well-explained now, much better than in the past, and I love the feeling of being in charge of a bunch of troops who often have their own notion of what the best plan of action may be...

[Conquistador]

We tend to play with the basic Chain Reaction and Swordplay rules.  They have gone through many updates, and the latest versions have reaction tables that come to a conclusion swiftly (earlier versions could have you reacting back and forth a dozen times!).

I'm loath to say too much on the latest versions of the rules, as I tend to have 1st editions.  I think the biggest differences are between what each tries to achieve.

<good "horses for courses" descriptions" snipped>

The other games are new enough to have the "Potential Encounter Force" for same-side gaming - as you come onto the board, there are "indications" that something is "over there" - could be nothing, could be an encounter that's friendly or an enemy.  It's a neat way of having programmed encounters.

<snip these is a great aspect IMO>

I would try a game out with Swordplay first.  Be aware that things like the In-Sight reaction test varies enormously between many of the THW games, and the HTH combat rules also change over time.  The shooting tables, on the other hand, are almost unchanged over 15 years of gaming!

Oh yeah - when you buy a THW game, you get everything you need.  If vehicle and space combat are part of a typical campaign, they will be in there.  It's just that there is, as you noticed, likely to be another game that does each of those in more detail, with a campaign that's more focused on that style of game.  Don't be put off.

<snip great point about tokens>

They're very different games, and a lot of folks don't like them.  They're well-explained now, much better than in the past, and I love the feeling of being in charge of a bunch of troops who often have their own notion of what the best plan of action may be...

,

This last point is what appeals the most to me.  Your plan has a flaw or a weakness you may find out mid course.  You did keep a reserve, right?

[Ed the THW Guy]

Momotaro gave a pretty good explanation. He's well versed in the games over a span of time and is correct, some of the mechanics have changed, mostly in response to the players and their info. The biggest change has been going from the 3x3 foot table for the traditional minis gamer to the option of using a 1x1 foot square for small RPG lite games.

As mentioned, some people want complete control (like chess) and don't like the reaction tests - which are much more realistic. Anyone having kids, spouses, employees or bosses understands that they don;t always do what you want. My tkae is the Grunts (NPC) will do the best they can to succeed in the task you give them without getting killed. If you wouldn't do it in real life they probably won't either.

Here's a quick overview of the rules and how they are similar and different. Keep in mind you can take a rule from one and use it in another set without breaking the rules. Like a toolbox, use the tool you want when you want.

Rally Round the King - Totally different, as it's for large battles and multiple units. You're the Commander of the army.

2d6 Sword and Sorcery, Swordplay, Warrior Heroes Legends, Warrior Heroes Armies and Adventures and Legends of Araby share the following:

Stars
Rep
AC
Monsters
Character Advancement
Attributes/Professions or Classes

All have
Encounters - scenarios. 2HDC, WHAA and WHL have detailed dungeon creation.

Swordplay, WHL and WHAA use the 3x3 tabletop, the rest can be used like that but is more  1x1 foot battle board.

All
Have combat rules but they vary slightly.

Hope this helps and ask questions as they come up.

[Hobgoblin]

Many thanks, Conquistador, Momotaro and Ed.

First of all, I love the idea of the reaction system and the limited control over friendly forces - not least because limited control seems a great way to introduce smaller kids to gaming. My son's played a lot of SOBH, HOTT and DR, but I'm keen to get my six-year-old daughter involved too - so having one character for her to think about with its subordinates automated to some degree seems a great plan (her warband is established and growing ...).

Those notes are very useful. At the moment, I'm leaning towards RRTK, as I have dozens of based-up HOTT elements (so the random army generation won't be a problem, and indeed will be fun for the kids). But I have a couple of further questions.

1. What are the main differences between WHAA and WHL?

2. Am I right in thinking that both WHAA and RRTK include massed combat? If so, is the massed combat in WHAA radically different? Or even abstracted off the tabletop?

3. Does RRTK cope well with multiple players who are out for themselves (rather than allies)? I love HOTT, but that's one thing that it doesn't do, unless you divide the players into two sides. So I'd be particularly keen on mass-battle rules that allow for both multiple players on the same side and multiple players out for themselves.

4. Finally, of the other rules, is any particular set best for multiple players? My son's friends are increasingly keen on tabletop gaming, and I'm keen to stage some big multilateral games.

Thanks again!

[Ed the THW Guy]

Here goes.
WHAA has big battle rules where each figure counts as unit and gets really detailed in dungeon creation. WHL has more NPC interaction and no "big battle" rules. It's not even close in scope to RRtK which is army level and would work with HOTT based figures - WHAA won't.

There's a new WHAA coming out it's pretty old and there's been lots of improvement in mechanics - well games play faster, less crunch. so wait for that.

RRtK is great for multi-players, non allies. Here's a link to a campaign that's been going on for five years.

http://talomir.blogspot.com/

The rules are quick and easy for the campaign as the p;layers are the army leaders, not the ruler and have the battles dictated where and when.

As for multi-player, all can be played cooperatively, all players on the same side. Any using the battle nboard would be better as there's no set up and take down of terrain. Maybe 2HDC?

There will be loads of new scenario books coming out that will work with all the rules except RRtK - whihc has been purchased by Rebel Minis. I'll still be doing support for the rules and scenrios.

[Hobgoblin]

Many thanks, Ed - that's a great help.

I'll buy RRtK today (HOTT basing and multiplayer non-allies seal that deal!) and try to squeeze in a game of that and/or Swordplay over the weekend. And I'll look forward to the new version of WHAA.

[Gibby]

Big fan of Two Hour Wargames' rules. I can't add any more than what has been said, other than that you really need to play them to "get it". Just reading them can be confusing - not because they're poorly written, but because their concepts are quite unique and tend to make sense when you're doing it as you read. I'd say THW rules are the best for creating those memorable moments we all love in tabletop adventures because most of the time the memorable moments are quite literally caused by the troops, rather than by you!