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Author Topic: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?  (Read 2176 times)

Offline aphillathehun

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 522
SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« on: March 15, 2017, 03:07:34 PM »

Another possible republican unit for me would be a platoon representing the 5th regiment.  Again, looking for uniform info.  The few pictures I have found they look to be wearing a uniform with a gorillo.  The gorillo doesn't typically have a tassle.  Looking at the Empress figs the foreign legion or the falange seem to be closest, but a lot (all? - can't tell from the pics) of those have tassles on their gorillos.  Are they still the best figs to use?  Would the uniform be a different color or be marked in some way to distinguish between people in the two forces?

(And yes, I am an SCW newb).

Offline Eclaireur

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 244
Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 07:05:52 PM »
Hey Phil - seems it's you and me again  :D
OK, so this is something I know a little bit more about than Basques since I've just researched and painted up a CoC force that is meant to be 5th regiment / EPR / Lister's Division - i.e. proper reds!
I found quite a few pictures of such types in Spanish publications and websites because the 5th regiment featured in quite a bit of early Republican/Communist propaganda. I've done my force with a certain amount a flexibility (i.e. 8-10 more troops than I need for a simple platoon) to allow me to make it look more or less uniform or early/later in the war if you prefer.
The mainstay of my force are Empress International Brigade and 'republican infantry' packs. I've added in some North Star IB figures too. So the look is that brown republican uniform with Adrian or Trubia helmets, some berets and bare heads. I can add more militia type figures with red scarves to give my platoon more of an early war look.
EC 

Offline Leigh Metford

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 215
Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 12:12:56 AM »
The plate in the Bueno book depicting the 5th Regiment in 1936, and photos I've seen, have its members uniformly dressed in monos and army isabellinos that retain their trim and tassel. According to Bueno the colour of the mono was a mid-brown, but the plate can probably be taken as representing a typical costume; no doubt the reality was less uniform than Bueno suggests.

The 5th regiment pack in the old Hotspur 20mm range, in which all five variants were depicted in the costume described above, was very obviously based on the Bueno plate. 

Offline Arlequín

  • Galactic Brain
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Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 12:54:04 AM »
One of the 5th Regiment's songs specifically mentions 'blue monos'; the working dress of the Spanish worker and indeed you will find photos of marching Quintos, or their leaders, uniformly dressed in them, as well as the infantry gorro de cuartel (aka the Isabelino or chapiri) with its red piping and tassle. Members of rear area sections can also be seen in them too.

There is also at least one photo showing a unit in the coveralls Leigh describes, which I believe were army-issue and came in a light khaki. You will also find photos of Falangistas in them from time to time too.

The 5th were big on uniformity as part of their creed of discipline and apart from one photo from July 1936 (when it was the 5th Battalion), every photo I've seen shows them all dressed the same (as far as numerous different styles of workers overalls would allow). If one guy is in blue, they all are, even if some guys are in bib-front overalls with white shirts and some are in onesies.

Bear in mind that the 5th was a 'model' training and support entity though, not a combat unit. They trained units and sent them off, like the Compañías de Acero and Lister's 1st Brigade was formed from units trained by the 5th Regiment, not by the 5th itself. The '5th' included partisans operating hundreds of miles behind enemy lines, propaganda and education groups, a theatre group and iirc a mobile library, amongst other rear-echelon elements run by MAOC and ultimately solely by the PCE.   

Offline aphillathehun

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 522
Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 12:55:35 AM »
The plate in the Bueno book depicting the 5th Regiment in 1936, and photos I've seen, have its members uniformly dressed in monos and army isabellinos that retain their trim and tassel. According to Bueno the colour of the mono was a mid-brown, but the plate can probably be taken as representing a typical costume; no doubt the reality was less uniform than Bueno suggests.

The 5th regiment pack in the old Hotspur 20mm range, in which all five variants were depicted in the costume described above, was very obviously based on the Bueno plate.  

Thanks.  I need to get my hands on this Bueno book....

For now, I don't know what monos are.  Edit.  I've figured that out now.  I think Empress could add a few more packs to help me out here.   ;)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 01:16:18 AM by aphillathehun »

Offline Leigh Metford

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 215
Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2017, 03:41:32 AM »
Pending the production of specific 5th Regiment figures, if someone makes suitable separate heads you could just transplant them onto militia bodies in mono.

Offline aphillathehun

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 522
Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2017, 01:12:57 PM »

Empress does make separate heads.  I'm not keen to do much surgery on lead figures though.  It seems like the SCW would be ideal to make figs with separate heads but alas.

Offline Durutti

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Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2017, 02:49:21 PM »
Swapping heads is not that difficult really  :)

https://youtu.be/aovqtjzHLUI

Here's a video I made a while back, on how I do mine

Yes, separate heads is a good idea, but not always that easy to do, and just as many people will be unhappy that they have to stick the heads on....When I had the Spanish Civil War range, before I sold it on to Empress, I decided to offer the head packs, as it enabled gamers to change heads on my models, and ones from other companies....

You may want to look at Burns Miniatures, as they have dedicated 5th Regt figures in their range.

As far as uniforms go, like everyone else in this thread, I have seen Quintos in Peninsular army uniforms, in monos, and in a mix of various other bits and pieces....bear in mind, the 5th Regt was only in use for a short period, before they were broken up, and used to form the core of the Ejercito Populare Regiments.
You may find it more economical to use a mix of Peninsular army, Ejercito Populare, and International Brigade models, to represent them, that way, by just swapping out a few command figures, and the flags, you can use the force for different things  :D

Offline Eclaireur

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 244
Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2017, 03:28:37 PM »
Phil,
sorry to clarify ... true 5th Regt, for early Madrid battles did go for that 'workers' chic' look of monos (overalls) and caps. But as Durutti points out that was quite a short lived period, and thereafter you see more conventional uniform items coming in, with the early communist /EPR units, like the first IB ones, apparently getting priority on Russian weapons, uniforms (both legacy peninsula army stocks and the Republican brown outfits), and some imports like adrian helmets..
EC     

Offline aphillathehun

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 522
Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2017, 04:08:13 PM »

Yeah, looks like there are a lot of options.

I was just thinking of doing something like this pic.  It's from wikipedia though, so I'm hoping they've got it right that this was a 5th regiment group:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Regiment#/media/File:%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%86%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%A1%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8B_5_%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%9C%D0%B0%D0%B4%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B4_%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82.1936.JPG

Now it makes me wonder if what they are wearing are the coveralls you are talking about.  I was thinking what you were talking - what I would call an overall - is something like this: http://idolosol.com/images/overall-3.jpg



Offline Durutti

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    • view from the duck pond
Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2017, 04:56:20 PM »
Think more like a boiler suit, rather than bib and brace overalls...both types were seen, but the Mono Azul, boiler suit type overall was a bit more prevalent.

http://memoriasdelaguerracivil.blogspot.co.uk/p/uniformes-de-la-republica.html

This page has the images from the Bueno book, look at the Quinto Regimento plate, that gives you a good idea of what they may have been wearing...bear in mind that Bueno is not 100% reliable, especially for the Republican side, you can clearly tell which side of the fence his loyalties lay  :D

Offline Eclaireur

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 244
Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2017, 12:36:27 PM »
Durutti - what do you make of the Burns Miniatures figures? I have to confess I didn't really look at them until you mentioned them. They don't seem to have pictures up for the 5th Regiment sculpts. Are they in monos? Do they fit well with Empress?
EC

Offline Durutti

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Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2017, 12:55:50 PM »
There was a link on here somewhere, that had images of them, an I did a comparison thing a while back with Empress and the Burns Minis (ex Force of Arms figures)
The Burns stuff is ok, they look a bit dated now, as they were sculpted a while back, but they are compatable size wise with Empress

I'll go hunt down those links for you mate  :D

Offline Durutti

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Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2017, 01:00:19 PM »
ok
Comparison pics

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=66426.0

bit further down there are pics of the Burns 5th regiment figures too

Offline Eclaireur

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 244
Re: SCW 5th Regiment - Empress Miniatures?
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2017, 04:44:52 PM »
That's very kind Durutti - and most useful thank you. The Burns ones look fine actually - but of course very few figures will actually stand comparison side by side with the Empress ones  ;D
EC

 

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