Rules list for Pike and Shot era games

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

Apparently the revised edition does. Many of these newer editions of old wargaming books have extra material of some kind. I don’t know who has published this edition but merely repeated the information from Caliver.

[Friends of General Haig]

Thanks for the additional digging Cholmondely Percival IV.  Added to the list for the next update. 

I have played the Pike and Shot game by Slitherine, when you could get a version that ran on an old iPad. It was relatively entertaining and also a useful personal reminder of why I don't like digital games - no chance to argue with the rules  .

[Bodvoc]

A very useful list of rules, I have tried quite a few of them.
A quick question about the Warlord Pike and Shotte rules. I have a copy of the 28mm rules and am wondering if the new Epic scale rules vary from them at all. I am particularly interested to know if a Pike and Shotte unit is treated differently. In the 28mm rules, if I am remembering this correctly, the main body of Pike and the two sleeves of shotte accumulate stamina separately, in Epic are they treated as one unit. I am hoping so as this should speed play up allowing for more units on the table?

[Radar]

There's only really subtle differences between the 'normal' and 'epic' versions. The text appears to have been completely rewritten, but same ideas just in a different order.

I was expecting a change in movement and firing range distances (i.e. reduced distance and range, more in keeping with the size of the figures), but they are identical.

Obviously the photos have been replaced by 'epic' pictures, there's bits from To Kill A King added (and I assume Devil's Playground), notably army lists

The only real difference I have found so far, and hopefully I haven't misinterpreted this, is that traditional units of foot are now made up of combined pike and shot, rather than counted as separate units operating together.

[Bodvoc]

Thanks for the quick reply. That is very useful as I was hoping Pike and Shotte would be treated as a single unit. I may well pick up a copy.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

An update on Renatio et Gloriam: the Helion edition has been published today and is available at the reduced price of £28 until 25 January.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

I received my copy of Renatio et Gloriam today and, coincidentally, a copy of Beneath the Lily Banners 3rd. edition, aka The War of Three
Kings. The former covers the period 1494 -1721, the latter 1660 - 1721. In other words, both include the War of Spanish Succession and the Great Northern War, but as the latter at least did see the continued use of pikes, there seems no reason why BtLB should not be included in the list, depending on just how one chooses to define the pike and shot era.  At any rate Donnybrook, which goes all the way up to the mid-18th century, and shares some DNA and mechanics with the new iteration of BtLB, appears to have encountered no objections.

[SJWi]

Cholmondely, I was thinking about buying Renatio et Gloriam as a possible set for my prospective 17th century Eastern Europe project.  I missed the deadline for the Helion sale plus couldn't find online any answers to me queries.  Can you tell me how figures/units are based?  I plan to game in 10mm and would much prefer whole units to be on a single base with no figure removal. I can do this for "For King and Parliament" but no idea about ReG.

Thanks

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

I’ll take a look at those points and report my findings later.
The introductory price of £28 is valid until 25 January after which it will be £35, though Caliver Books is listing it at £27.50 (I don’t know whether this will also rise).

There is a website that may answer some of your questions:

https://renatio-et-gloriam.co.uk/smf/index.php

[SJWi]

Thanks, I see I can also get them via Mr Bezos' e-commerce platform for £25. I must admit I am tempted.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

Oh, it must have gone down on Amazon. It was about £32 when I looked and shown as not available until the end of the month.

One thing to bear in mind with regard to the cost, however, is that, unlike Mortem et Gloriam, it does not come with the necessary cards and special dice, or even a separate QRS (though it transpires that there are a couple of mistakes in the one in the book, corrected in the downloadable one). I’m trying to find out from the website whether these will be available separately or if players are meant to substitute regular dice and cards.

Along with this I’ll make a start in reading the book shortly and try to answer your questions.

[SJWi]

Interesting, I saw the pictures of the dice in use on the website and reference to the cards.  Rather weirdly they speak of coloured cards which also the same colour as the dice. I seem to recall a similar system for the ancient set MeG when it was sold by Plastic Soldier Company, and all in all it made the rules pretty pricey. I'm also intrigued as to why Helion are publishing two sets of rules for the same period with "Renatio et Gloriam" and "In Deo Veritas". ReG covers a longer timespan being for both 16th and 17th centuries but it still strikes me as a tad odd.     

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

MeG came - and as far as I’m aware, still comes - in a boxed set that includes the dice and cards. These - or at any rate substitutes for them - are certainly needed for ReG but to date I’ve not seen anything about how to acquire them. The dice are almost certainly the same as in MeG - a set of five colours, each die with the same combination of symbols and blank faces - but the cards may be different.  The introduction to the rules states that an official set is available, as is a bag of tokens that can be used instead of the cards, and I can only assume that these may be purchased from the website, though I haven’t found the web store as yet. The key point, I think, is that the cards and tokens are colour-coded, like the dice, and it seems that any system that achieves this will work. It is explicitly stated that “players are welcome to create their own.”

With regard to basing, any system, including individual figures, is usable. Pike and shot are not organised separately. Rather than the archetypal wargames unit, the system uses the concept of a TUG - Tactical Unit Group - comprising a variable number of notional bases. Measurement is by base width (BW) so that any scale of figures can be used, as can any size of base.

There is no individual figure removal but a base is removed after incurring three wounds. A TUG may be reduced to half its original number of bases but on incurring a further wound is destroyed.

With regard to period duplication or overlap with In Deo Veritas, I can only assume that Helion feels that the two rule systems and their respective scopes are sufficiently different to warrant this. Osprey, you may recall, have produced two systems for the American Civil War, Across a Deadly Field and the recent With Hot Lead and Cold Steel.

[Cholmondely Percival IV]

A further note on pricing. It is Books Etc. that is selling ReG on Amazon for a little under £25. Amazon itself is not currently listing it.

The rule book does not include army lists. A separate book called Europe’s Ruin will be published later with lists for the ECW and 30YW and there may be others in the pipeline but it seems that lists for more obscure armies will only be available in PDF form. Fifteen are currently available at £2 each from this site:

https://ccc-games.co.uk/product-category/renatio-et-gloriam/

[SJWi]

According to the Helion website "Europe's Ruin" is now available and has 55 army lists for the Thirty Years War and ECW. I think I will hold off from buying them until I know more about the availability of the required cards and dice.