Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: rumacara on April 21, 2024, 08:13:07 PM
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Hello all
I´m planning on painting 2 forces for the ACW in 20mm wich consists on 5 or 6 regiments of infantry 1 of cavalry and 2 guns per side and i´m after some simple rules to play with.
My ideas are:
regiments of 4 infantry bases with 4 miniatures each (16 figures)
regiments of cavalry with 2 figures per base (8 per unit)
1 battery of artillery with 2 guns and 4 crew each
rules for one brain cell persons (simple as much as possible)
rules with as less markers as possible and without using cards (preferably)
I can expand the size of the units if needed but would like to keep this size for gaming space reasons.
Ideas for both rules and forces are welcome.
Thanks for watching and helping,
Rui
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One Hour Wargames- 4 infantry units +2 Veterans or whatever (called Zouaves in the rules to differentiate, this tends to inflame opinion 🤣), 2 cavalry and 2 guns plus a general ( we use them to recover damage points). There are some nice mods available from greater minds on the web. Give a good game using the scenarios and really simple and seem to suit your plan. Go enjoy!
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"Mr. Lincoln's War"
Your basing scheme will fit these rules nicely.
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What about Warlord Games' "Black Powder" v2 of Crusader Publishing's "Rank and File". I don't play them myself as I game ACW in 6mm, but they have both stood the test of time. The latter are only $9.99 on Wargames Vault. They are a generic set of horse and musket rules for 1740-1900 but you can then download some ACW specifics.
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Fire and Fury might fit the bill for you mate (although it’s been many years since I’ve played it myself).
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That basing may work with Fire & Fury, but you will need a lot more bases than that to get a game out of F&F.
I don't know what rules to suggest. I only play brigade Fire & Fury and it's always hit the spot for me.
I do highly recommend it (there's also the regimental version), but you will need more bases than that. If you were willing to expand (and I'd say you'd need to double what you are planning) then you couldn't go far wrong with F&F. It's an older set of rules (90s) but the fact that it's still played should tell you a lot about how good it is. Mind you, compared to other wars, the ACW is pretty straightforward when it comes to troop types and tactics. That's what makes it such a good period for gaming, I reckon.
There's those new Osprey ACW rules. Don't know what they play like but Osprey rules are cheap enough that they are often worth a punt.
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Matakishi's ACW forces are about that size, you should check out his thread on his ACW project, see what rules he is using? I could be wrong but I think it may be One Hour Wargames as already mentioned.
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Couldn’t remember how many bases we used in the past for F&F.
Just paint more figures lol
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If you make your infantry units 12 figures and cavalry 6 then for 5 or 6 units a side, Osprey's Rebels and Patriots rules will work nicely. Simple and easy to pick up.
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One brain cell rules? Definitely One Hour Wargames. Since I don't have Confederate Zouaves painted, I use Texans as elite infantry. That might cause some more inflamed opinion. Two or three brain cells? Rebel & Patriots as said above, though it uses 12 and 6 figures per unit.
In both sets of rules you need to track casualties but no other markers.
Followers of OHW and other rules by that author hang out here https://groups.io/g/AMW/topics (https://groups.io/g/AMW/topics)
OHW has 36 scenarios, none requiring more than 6 units per side. A few of them are distinctly modern, but most will work fine, won't break the bank purchasing terrain. To keep costs down, you might just designate normal infantry as elite with a marker per scenario.
The most units each side needs:
4 infantry
2 elite infantry * can use other infantry, see above
2 artillery
2 cavalry * in the rare case 2 of these are called for, you can substitute an infantry or artillery unit
Die rolls determine what mix is used in any scenario. Some use 4 or even 3 units.
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Thank you all for the help and sugestions.
vtsaogames, i had a pdf of the OHW so i can try those and yes they seem adequade for what i´m after.
I also dont have zouaves but i have texans and other figures i can paint as special units. ;)
armchairgeneral, i have Rebels and Patriots but havent tried yet but i´ve readed the rules and they also seem nice although not exactly what i´m after.
OSHIROmodels, Just paint more figures
NO!!! ;D
Jokes appart i´ve tried Fire and Fury some years ago and honestly i didnt liked. I ended up selling the books and 2 15mm armies. Perhaps i may try it again but the person whom i game with isnt the best person to try rules therefore i´m searching for very simple ones.
Do you want me to send you a few more 20mm ??? :D
vodkafan, that is a good idea and i will. Thanks for the tip James.
Dice Roller, thank you for your point of view of the F&F rules. Like i mentioned earlier i didnt liked much those rules but then again i only tried once. I may give them a try again.
SJWi, i have the ancients/dark ages version of the crusader rules and i will give them a re-reading again to see if they capture my attention. I think i have the pdf somewhere of the black powder version. Another option is good.
Old Contemptable, now those i havent tried yet. I dont think i have them but will search for some comments and revisions of the rules. Another option to check it.
Roo, You probably are the winner but will check other options before i take the table. I may take some info from several and end up making my own.
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Gentlemen, i found an old box with 5 regiments already based and primed that are diferent in base sizes from what i inicially planned (meaning also that i have a few more figures that i thought) so i will start with those instead.
The miniatures are based in 4cm x 2cm with 3 figures per base and 6 bases per unit.
I´ve been reading Valour and Fortitude from the Perrys and would like to ask if any of you tried those rules and if they fit on this type of bases/units or again if there are simpler rules that fit the bill.
I know that V&F is for brigade sizes and i think i may be abble to complete at least 1 and a half brigades per side meaning 5 regiments per brigade plus the artillery units and cavalry.
Table size unfortunately is 90cm x 150cm so not a adequate one for V&F i think.
Your thoughts and ideas are welcome. :)
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If you fancy trying them just scale the movement and ranges accordingly…the Perry twins gaming rooms are the envy of many (I include myself firmly in that group)…whatever have fun with your figures bud
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Rumacara Longstreet fits the size forces you list your OP.
You can download the base rules and game for free so can give it a go at no cost…
https://sammustafa.com/downloads (https://sammustafa.com/downloads)
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Can't recall what basing was involved but many years ago, a group of us used to play On To Richmond a bit. Perversely we tended to use it mostly for non ACW encounters. I do reacll it being fairly simple, reasonably fast playing and giving an enjoyable game. Deffo less complex than its near contemporaries like Johnny Reb, FoF etc.
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I have forces similar to what you describe and I think Black Powder and Valour & Fortitude work fine, just keep your brigade sizes small. I would go for 3 regiments rather than 5. For Black powder just increase the point at which a brigade breaks. For V&F use second edition, they are kinder to the smaller table / army.
I recently gave the Perry Valour & Fortitude ACW rules a spin and did a write up on my blog, which may be of interest.
LINK
https://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2024/02/valour-fortitude-rules-for-acw.html
For a One Hour Wargame scenario from Neil Thomas, last week I put down a 6 units V’s 3 unit game of napoleonics on a 4x4 with 28mm. That also has its own blog report.
Link
https://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2024/04/one-hour-wargames-in-1809.html
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So i'm in a similar situation in that i'm easing into the miniature hobby and would like to push some mini's around. I did have a question though for those that might know, it seems that fire and fury requires a HUGE number of bases for the scenarios in their books. Does this mean the rules are not as effective with smaller games? Or can the Fire and fury rules be just as effective with lets say a brigade and some artillery on a smaller map?
just curious what folks had to say.
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Honestly?
No. I'd say they can't. Truth is, Fire & Fury is based on big games.
Whether it's the Brigade version or the Regimental version, the base count is just the same (if you like, in the Brigade version a base is a regiment, and in the Regimental version a base is a company - not exactly, but more or less).
I'm sure someone will say you can play F&F with a low number of bases but, truth is, you won't be getting the best out of the experience. It would be leading you astray.
One option might be to try Osprey's 'Rebels & Patriots'. That has a figure count of about 50-60 per side. Can be played with either 15mm or 28mm. Figures are individually based, mind you. But you could multi-base them and mark casualties or, as your collection grows, you could just ping them off whatever bases you have and re-base them as units?
That'd get you going nice and quickly.
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How many bases are too many? Bloody Big Battles which has similarities to Fire & Fury but is stripped down and leaner could work for you. Each base can represent 1,000 - 2.000 troops. I have a First Bull Run scenario at the 500 troops or 12 guns per base level, uses about 40 bases per side. The rules cover various 19th century wars and have been stretched outside that boundary in both directions.
My review of the rules can be found here: http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/2015/03/deep-fried-happy-mice-another-review-of.html (http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/2015/03/deep-fried-happy-mice-another-review-of.html)
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Cheers, Vincent - that's a much more substantial review of BBB than the AI managed:
https://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/2024/05/just-for-fun-ai-review-of-bbb.html
Seriously, though ... collected reviews can be found here:
https://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/2016/10/collected-reviews-of-bbb-bloody-big.html
And there are 15 ACW scenarios freely available from the BBB group files:
https://groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles
Good luck with finding the set of rules that meets your needs.
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not wanting to self promote here too much but this could be what you're looking for
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Folks, thanks again for your feedback and ideas and sorry for the late answer.
I also came across these rules wich i started reading and they seem nice and simple.
https://wofungames.com/
Lots of rules to explore. :)
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https://wofungames.com/
Lots of rules to explore. :)
The "mini's" are pretty interesting on here. might be a quicker way to get some stuff on the table.
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Folks, thanks again for your feedback and ideas and sorry for the late answer.
I also came across these rules wich i started reading and they seem nice and simple.
https://wofungames.com/
Lots of rules to explore. :)
I haven't played any of these rules but Andy Callan has been a prolific rules author and these look pretty good.
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Well I think the bigger problem is how easy it is to become a rules "collector." Not only are there fantastic older rules but there are tons of new rules with varying levels of support from the publishers, not to mention very usable free rules.
some of the rules I would love to play
1. guns at gettysburg
2. on to richmond
3. longstreet
4. pickets charge
5. fire and fury
6. Piquet Field of battle
7. hot lead cold steel
8. one hour wargames
9. brother against brother
and the list could go on and on. Since I will typically play solo I am leaning towards games with card driven mechanics like longstreet and piquet.
Spoiled for choices.......