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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: Westfalia Chris on August 15, 2013, 11:32:53 AM

Title: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 15, 2013, 11:32:53 AM
Hi all,

as there have been a lot of discussions involving Games Workshop lately, we have decided to bundle the topic in a single thread, which you are now reading.

This thread is intended to allow people discussing recent developments regarding Games Workshop and its products in general, including, but not limited to, the release of new games, miniatures, pricing, or academic examinations of the olfactory impediments associated with GW stores over the last three decades. Basically, anything EXCEPT pictures of painted miniatures, battle reports, and other "hobby productive" issues, which should continue to be posted in their respective period boards, i.e. Fantasy and Future Wars.

Now, and let me get this straight, this thread is NOT an invitation to sling squigs at other people. All forum rules regarding posting etiquette and, in particular, copyrighted material (such as scans from unreleased White Dwarf magazine issues) apply, and I will moderate this thread as I do with other OT topics.

That's it for the moment. I'll be locking existing "General GW" topics over the next few days, and any future topic with such content will be locked immediately.

Cheers, Chris
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on August 15, 2013, 11:38:27 AM
About time! Good move.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: cheetor on August 15, 2013, 12:16:07 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on August 15, 2013, 11:38:27 AM
About time! Good move.

Yep.  Thats a great idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2013, 12:18:58 PM
Thank christ for that!

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Damas on August 15, 2013, 12:29:20 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 15, 2013, 12:18:58 PM
Thank christ for that!

cheers

James
No, thank Chris for that!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2013, 12:32:40 PM
Quote from: Damas on August 15, 2013, 12:29:20 PM
No, thank Chris for that!

Quite  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 15, 2013, 12:45:29 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly

Quote from: Damas
No, thank Chris for that!

Quite   :D

cheers

James

"Redde caesari quae sunt caesaris", gentlemen - thank the good Prof. Witchheimer who initiated and green-lit this measure. While GW may not be very high on the agenda of many LAF users, it still has been a major driving force in the development of the hobby back in the day and remains a topic of interest - bundling the discussion has mainly to do with the certain tangent most such threads tend to veer off on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 15, 2013, 06:07:25 PM
Now this thread exists no-ones got anything to say.  lol

What are peoples general thoughts on the "rumoured" Inquisition game? Personally, I think it depends 100% on the miniatures. Apparently they're based on John Blanche sketches so might be okay if they got a decent sculptor involved. Judging by recent releases though, hmmm. The rules are likely to be Diet Caffeine-free Inquisitor so for those of us who actually like Inquisitor it's pretty unlikely we'll use the rules even if we buy it (I almost definitely won't due to lack of disposable income. Wonder what the INQ28 community make of it? Bet they feel a bit like GW are treading on their toes a little.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 15, 2013, 06:35:29 PM
This is a great idea, because speaking purely for myself, I find it therapeutic to get a lot of moaning off my chest to stave off the worst effects of the disappointment felt by the direction GW has been going. I loved and grew up with their stuff but in the last few years I have gone off it right down to the very aesthetic of it all. This thread will allow me to feel better about it, because it's nice to see my favourite online community's take on things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2013, 06:37:22 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on August 15, 2013, 12:45:29 PM
Quite   :D

cheers

James

"Redde caesari quae sunt caesaris", gentlemen - thank the good Prof. Witchheimer who initiated and green-lit this measure. While GW may not be very high on the agenda of many LAF users, it still has been a major driving force in the development of the hobby back in the day and remains a topic of interest - bundling the discussion has mainly to do with the certain tangent most such threads tend to veer off on.

Well, thank you Alex  :)

I grew up with GW and still have many figures and rules sets for them but get rather fed up with the vitriol etc that happens all over the net.

I've said my piece and will now disappear to make and paint shit  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Damas on August 15, 2013, 06:44:47 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 15, 2013, 06:37:22 PM
I've said my piece and will now disappear to make and paint shit  :D

Are you making a midden for the Robin Hood Nottingham castle then?  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2013, 06:45:51 PM
Quote from: Damas on August 15, 2013, 06:44:47 PM
Are you making a midden for the Robin Hood Nottingham castle then?  :P

Ooo, that's an idea  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Johnno on August 15, 2013, 06:46:20 PM
Quote from: Diakon on August 15, 2013, 06:07:25 PM
What are peoples general thoughts on the "rumoured" Inquisition game? Personally, I think it depends 100% on the miniatures. Apparently they're based on John Blanche sketches so might be okay if they got a decent sculptor involved. Judging by recent releases though, hmmm. The rules are likely to be Diet Caffeine-free Inquisitor so for those of us who actually like Inquisitor it's pretty unlikely we'll use the rules even if we buy it (I almost definitely won't due to lack of disposable income. Wonder what the INQ28 community make of it? Bet they feel a bit like GW are treading on their toes a little.

If it does infact come to fruition and is based on Blanche's sketches, I'm most likely in. However, I like INQ28 and converting my own unique troops.


There's been whisperings that if successful, if could have further development down the line. My biggest GW gripe is the lack of support for the specialist games, which are some of their best...
while it would be nice to have another large line of figures, I won't be holding my breath.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 15, 2013, 08:43:04 PM
Quote from: Johnno on August 15, 2013, 06:46:20 PM
However, I like INQ28 and converting my own unique troops.

That;s exactly why I wonder what the INQ28 community make of it. A large part of INQ28 is the creation of unique stuff. I'd love to be able to do some stuff like you see on the Ammobunker INQ28 boards but I just don't have the sculpting skills. Having said that I rummaged around my bitz a few months ago and found a bunch of Gorkamorka ork bodies so I converted them up into a Nurgle cult with Plaguebearer heads and arms and necromunda weapons. That was the weekend I found Ammobunker for the first time and I caught the bug.  :D

My usual INQ28 revolves more around using old, classic miniatures for my warbands. For example, my Rogue Malleus Inquisitor is the Karloth Valois model, unmodified. I love the model too much to cut it up and it took me years to get hold of too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Conquistador on August 15, 2013, 11:21:09 PM
Second sign of the Apocalypse:  I am going to say something nice about GW.

{waiting for people to stand back up and/or pick up their jaws}

Despite all my criticisms, and I think them valid - else why speak them, many fine war gamers have been introduced into the miniatures/war games hobby (although fed propaganda about it being the GW Hobby) so let it be on the record that they have at least one redeeming trait.

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Miniman on August 16, 2013, 01:56:37 AM
Quote
Second sign of the Apocalypse:  I am going to say something nice about GW.
There is quite a lot of good in GW. I have played fantasy since the 5th edition and have several armies
I like most of the miniatures but there are a lot that do not appeal to me. The big gaudy looking ones like the Warsphinx, I just don't buy them. I also hate that GW stopped making lead miniatures and introduced finecast as a substitute. Of course the prices drive me crazy but it seems that nothing is cheap anymore and it's not only GW.
  For the most part I do like the fantasy rules. Loved the 7th but not so much the 8th edition as I feel GW designed the 8th with sales in mind instead of making the game better. Hordes = more money etc.
  However it still is a fun game to play and has a lot to offer as far as strategy and tactics. There are so many choices to make designing your army any during the game.
 For me the biggest plus is if I feel like playing a game I can go into my GW store and pick up a game with someone. I can't do that with other games I am interested in as easily.
  I also like LoTR but haven't played it much. Never played 40K so I can't say anything about that.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 16, 2013, 02:05:06 AM
Quote from: Conquistador on August 15, 2013, 11:21:09 PM
Second sign of the Apocalypse:  I am going to say something nice about GW.

{waiting for people to stand back up and/or pick up their jaws}

Despite all my criticisms, and I think them valid - else why speak them, many fine war gamers have been introduced into the miniatures/war games hobby (although fed propaganda about it being the GW Hobby) so let it be on the record that they have at least one redeeming trait.

Gracias,

Glenn


But what is that trait? You post doesn't actually say!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Glitzer on August 16, 2013, 02:27:52 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 16, 2013, 02:05:06 AM
But what is that trait? You post doesn't actually say!  ;D

It must be the machine washable gaming mats, no doubt about that. ;)

But to be serious again: I really like my machine washable gaming mat. It's a great product and even comes without skulls.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 16, 2013, 07:03:54 AM
It is a shame they discontinued it then, probably to encourage sales of their plastic skull-ladened battle ground.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on August 16, 2013, 07:20:03 AM
Thankyou Alex and Chris :)

I'm actually looking forward to a new Inquisition game :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: cheetor on August 16, 2013, 12:19:16 PM
Quote from: Blackwolf on August 16, 2013, 07:20:03 AM
I'm actually looking forward to a new Inquisition game :)

Big time.

If the rules suck I wont use them, if they are good then I will play it, but if the rumoured release is real then it definitely means a big box of cool plastic 40k stuff that isnt Space Marines, hooray!  GWs best products are probably their starter sets.  They even provide value for money.

I actually hope that there isnt further support for the (rumoured) game after its (rumoured) release.  I have plenty of other toy soldier bits and pieces to buy and paint without trying to keep up with a new one.  A box set of cool stuff and a fun rule set (it could happen) would be more than enough to make me happy.

I just wish some disgruntled employee/marketing spin manager would leak some actual info.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 16, 2013, 03:03:08 PM
Does anyone know what happened to that very interesting Vector Magazine articel "Freedom in an owned world"? It is linked from the GW wikipedia page but seems to have disappeared.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: workerBee on August 16, 2013, 03:05:44 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 16, 2013, 02:05:06 AM
But what is that trait? You post doesn't actually say!  ;D

Um, yes I did.

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on August 16, 2013, 05:16:01 PM
Ah... No more tiresome blitherings about GW polluting the pure waters of Lead Adventure... Bliss  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lowtardog on August 16, 2013, 06:03:13 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on August 16, 2013, 05:16:01 PM
Ah... No more tiresome blitherings about GW polluting the pure waters of Lead Adventure... Bliss  :)

Lol :D ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on August 16, 2013, 07:03:29 PM
Quote from: cheetor on August 16, 2013, 12:19:16 PM
Big time.

If the rules suck I wont use them, if they are good then I will play it, but if the rumoured release is real then it definitely means a big box of cool plastic 40k stuff that isnt Space Marines, hooray!  GWs best products are probably their starter sets.  They even provide value for money.

I actually hope that there isnt further support for the (rumoured) game after its (rumoured) release.  I have plenty of other toy soldier bits and pieces to buy and paint without trying to keep up with a new one.  A box set of cool stuff and a fun rule set (it could happen) would be more than enough to make me happy.

I just wish some disgruntled employee/marketing spin manager would leak some actual info.



You could try the wd confrontation rules? Been flicking through the wd 100's and stumbled across them. Nice and weighty and who doesn't like D100 equipment and trade tables! ;).

Also I'd forgotten just how many buildings and vehicle templates they used to print. Some lovely fantasy buildings too.

Oh well...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 16, 2013, 07:31:56 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440005a&prodId=prod2160106a

A bundle that ACTUALLY SAVES YOU MONEY! Twenty quid saved if you buy this deal over all the bits separate. Come on, GW, keep this kind of thing up and show us you aren't totally mental!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 16, 2013, 09:47:22 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on August 16, 2013, 05:16:01 PM
Ah... No more tiresome blitherings about GW polluting the pure waters of Lead Adventure... Bliss  :)

I guess lead adventure forums is not the place i had hoped it would be. O well i will try and find another one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 16, 2013, 10:03:07 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 16, 2013, 07:31:56 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440005a&prodId=prod2160106a

A bundle that ACTUALLY SAVES YOU MONEY! Twenty quid saved if you buy this deal over all the bits separate.

 lol yeah but the Scenery in that Set are the ugliest Pieces they're selling  >:D

this one made me chuckle,the WITCHFATE TOR for another 50 Quids  lol

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod900169a (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod900169a)

the most ridiculous Scenery Piece ever  lol lol
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1390086a (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1390086a)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 16, 2013, 10:05:37 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on August 16, 2013, 09:47:22 PM
I guess lead adventure forums is not the place i had hoped it would be. O well i will try and find another one.

The LAF is an amazing forum, full of great people, many of whom I now count among my friends. I suspect our good Captain was referring to threads getting derailed by GW-related blabber rather than any discussion of GW at all. Both the Future Wars and Fantasy Adventures folders have plenty of GW-based content, so don't be discouraged.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 16, 2013, 10:33:08 PM
That is all fine. I would not deny that LAF is a very worthwhile forum with lots of great hobby-related stuff. in fact i logged back on thinking to somehow edit the previous post.

But I still think i would like to find another place where this sort of thing is discussed and not all relegated to one thread. I grew up collecting the old warhammer stuff and although now i collect and paint minis from other companies (including some excellent LAF minis i bought recently), it is this stuff i am mostly interested in discussing.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on August 16, 2013, 10:58:27 PM
I think the point is that you can start threads about GW figures and games in the relevant section of the forum - which most of the time is going to be Fantasy adventures or Future Wars / sci-fi. You can start as many of these as you like if the topic is to do with figures, gaming, painting or modelling, etc.

But all discussion of GW as an entity, their pricing, marketing, practices and policies, will henceforth be corralled in this single sticky topic - rather than multiple topics every few days, all essentially knocking GW for their latest unpopular product / price / marketing ploy / whatever. It's so boring to see the same topic endlessly recycled time after time after time. At least now it will all be in one place, so those of us who don't give a monkeys about GW, know where to avoid  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 16, 2013, 11:34:02 PM
I dont take kindly to bullying, verbal or otherwise. How would you like if I entered one of your threads and described it all as "tiresome blitherings".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 17, 2013, 01:27:21 AM
?!?

I don't think anyone's trying to 'bully' anyone else. (For what purpose? And whose thread is he doing it in?) A bit of ribbing and relief, maybe. Thicker skin, matey! This isn't frothers, but it ain't warseer either. :)

I think I can see Captain Blood's viewpoint. If you've never paid much attention to GW; if you've been out of it for ages; or take it on your own terms without getting caught up and chewed up by the hype and cult (getting plenty of satisfaction from other games in any case), the complaints of the steady stream of disgruntled fans and fresh 'exes' can start to seem old and samey. A bit pointless and... tiresome, really. ;) The regular moans about the the company (pricing, theme, models, etc.) have been going on for, what? 20-30 years?
I enjoy a good whinge about GW myself (as do you, from the looks of things ;) ) but I've definitely felt like that in a few instances. Sometimes the situation even starts to look like some kind of abusive relationship, and the frustration increases with it - "Why do you stay with that company if you're always complaining about it and it treats you so badly? Kick that cheese to the kerb and get yourself a real game!"

Ahem. Anyway, as mentioned, this is the thread where most of that 'discussion' goes now. :) I can't blame anyone for their cheers that it leaves the sci-fi and fantasy boards a bit freer to focus on more productive or positive matters, GW-related or otherwise.

Talking about hype, cults, and Warseer: a couple of decent posts here. (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?372749-Why-do-games-like-Warmaster-and-LOTR-and-games-like-it-fail&p=6882331&viewfull=1#post6882331) (Including the quote)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on August 17, 2013, 07:23:46 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on August 16, 2013, 11:34:02 PM
I dont take kindly to bullying, verbal or otherwise. How would you like if I entered one of your threads and described it all as "tiresome blitherings".

Well I find endless discussion of what's wrong with Games Workshop tiresome, and most of it is repetitive and pointless, so I think blithering is a reasonable word for it.

But if you enjoy that sort of discussion, then you can do it in this thread to your heart's content. But thankfully, we will no longer have to put up with new threads every few days or weeks, raking over the same old moans and groans. That is a very good thing for LAF, which has always been a positive, constructive, good natured place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 17, 2013, 07:43:28 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on August 16, 2013, 11:34:02 PM
I dont take kindly to bullying, verbal or otherwise. How would you like if I entered one of your threads and described it all as "tiresome blitherings".

I would agree with the good Captain and Vermis. I believe it's not bullying! What we're trying to prevent weismonsters, I think, is the likes of threads where someone has put in great deal of work painting, building and converting GW stuff only for a thread commenting on said stuff to turn into talking about the ills of Games Workshop. Personally I think it's more respectful to the people doing the work.

I'm not sure if you made a wee mistake in thinking ALL things GW, eg the painting of GW minis, was barred from LAF, it's only GW 'bashing that's to go on here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on August 17, 2013, 08:20:15 AM
Well, weismonsters, this is like other guys said, nobody is thinking of banning GW topics. Everything can stay and that won't be changing. You are here since a few weeks, I'm  here since the beginning (being the guy behind LAF :)) and since seven years I was reading  almost every week again and again the same about GW "look, they have made shit again, look they're too expensive, they're mad, they're bla-bla".

Actually I'm not negative about GW, having some WHFB armies and lots of 40K stuff, their books, WDs and so on and I was starting my gaming career playing Warhammer. If you would care to take a look at my older blog (http://witchhunter.net) so you would see what I mean.

But what I like is not the ranting/bashing side of the GW hobby, and this forum has got surely about a hundred GW-bashing topics already. Isn't really not enough? So I've decided to deploy this last one thread. So you can still talk about their horrible prices or whatever you like to talk to about but with only limitation to this one place. If you are after showing miniatures, talking about GW miniatures, talking about GW games so feel free to start threads how many you need and like, we don't mind it at all.

Now, if you still think LAF is a wrong forum for you and you need your freedom to have lots of GW bashing topics, so maybe you're right, it's the wrong forum for this. But maybe you would like to give it a chance and try it here a bit longer, for some reason I think it's not that bad here :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Conquistador on August 17, 2013, 03:36:04 PM
As a long time 3rd sigma level critic I think this thread is a good idea.

Please feel free to remind me of this thread if I go off topic on a GW thread.

The problem with GW threads is that GW becomes like religion and politics - very important to many people and very personal (for example, criticizing the Archbishopric's actions in Saint Louis vis-a-vis an independent Roman Catholic church in the area is a discussion that 99% of my co-workers can be involved with comfortably but one person becomes "emotional" and so we have dropped that subject in our inter-cube conversations.) 

While we have not had an actual "war" over GW, unlike religion and politics, some of the threads have indeed become "predictable" and "tiresome."  Certain posters make me seem like a GW fanboy and that is not productive to the forum.

Gracias,

Glenn


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: cheetor on August 18, 2013, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: Commander Vyper on August 16, 2013, 07:03:29 PM
You could try the wd confrontation rules? Been flicking through the wd 100's and stumbled across them. Nice and weighty and who doesn't like D100 equipment and trade tables! ;).

I was actually looking through those recently in order to find illustrations of caryatids - I want to add one or two to my 40k skirmish stuff.  The core of the Confrontation rules is identical to "Inquisitor".  While many enjoy that level of complexity, I like fast and simple games rather than games that involve large modifier charts and the like, so its not for me (even though I reread the Inquisitor rulebook recently too).

Complex/ridiculous/funny/extreme equipment and trade tables are always good for a laugh though :)

Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 16, 2013, 10:03:07 PM
lol yeah but the Scenery in that Set are the ugliest Pieces they're selling  >:D

Yep.  They dont look like actual scenery pieces at all really, more like something off the cover of Skeletors solo album :)


Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 16, 2013, 10:03:07 PM
the most ridiculous Scenery Piece ever  lol lol
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1390086a (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1390086a)

You know, I actually like that one.  The massive skulls on the side of the observatory are awful, but I think that model is quite fun, in a Tim Burton sort of way.  A lot more useful than flying spiral staircases on fire anyway :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 18, 2013, 03:12:11 PM
Quote from: cheetor on August 18, 2013, 02:46:38 PM
Complex/ridiculous/funny/extreme equipment and trade tables are always good for a laugh though :)

Bring back Anti-Plant Grenades.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 18, 2013, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: cheetor on August 18, 2013, 02:46:38 PM

You know, I actually like that one.  The massive skulls on the side of the observatory are awful, but I think that model is quite fun, in a Tim Burton sort of way.  A lot more useful than flying spiral staircases on fire anyway :)


 lol lol Funny that you say that.In my perception GW has moved away from Grimdark into something abstract i.e. Rivet Wars,that Malifaux Spin off with the creepy Dolls or SDE  :? The Dreadfleet Stuff in particular is very Burtonesque  lol

on another Note: That Wizard of OZ Remake was so disappointing,Raimi makes a Burton Film with James Franco in a Johnny Depp Role  >:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 18, 2013, 09:14:40 PM
Regarding the above controversies, I thank those who responded constructively for their time and comments. I am tempted to continue trying to put my point of view but I can tell that I am not going to win so i will call it a day.

Cheetor, I am surprised to learn that the Inquisitor rules are based on Confrontation system- is Inquisitor a roleplay type game?

I have been recently been thinking about those Confrontation rules. I liked the complexity of the rules insofar as they were making things more realistic in some sense, to-hit probability varying continuously with range, powerful weapons almost always causing some kind of wound to a human rather than bouncing off miraculously and so on. I keep thinking i will have a go at writing some rules like that one day, just for my own entertainment as much as anything else.

Complex rules were quite the thing when i was a kid. Most of the GW games were complicated. Also some others out there. I remember spending hours to resolve a single battletech duel between two mechs using solaris VII rules and enjoying it a lot. A while back i read an interview by Ian Livingstone where he stated the complexity of the rules as one of the attractive features of games in and of itself, at least to the target audience he had in mind. Confrontation was produced whilst there was stilll that mentality in GW i think. The downside for them was that a game so slow will only involve a handfull of miniatures. Maybe this is why it was never finished, or maybe they decided it was just too slow.

There is a lot to be said for fast streamlined systems too, just not quite my cup of tea (having said that I did enjoy the card-based system of Gears of War where orders cards doubled up as wound counters- totally unrealistic but super efficient game mechanic).

Vermis- I had a look at that post on another site you linked to. I agree it is interesting. The article talks about training people to think a certain way. Sounds a bt extreme to me but maybe it is right*. It is certainly true that the first thing a person sees always tends to introduce a psychological bias and everything else tends to be subconciously referred to it. If peoples first experience of the hobby is GW they will tend to compare everything that comes after too it. For example, peoples ideas about what is a bargain is strongly affected by the first price they hear quoted, even if it is totally random number. That is called "framing" I think.


* As an edit i add this- just had a look at the introduction section of WHFB 3rd edition, and it is quite striking. They tell us that Warhammer is more than just a game, and a lot of work must be put into it to earn the sort of respect afforded to GW celebrities of which they give a long list. they do not quite go as far as to say that Warhammer is a lifestyle, but it is implied there. Later they discuss what sort of furniture the gamer should consider buying... I agree "cult marketing" is a good name for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: cheetor on August 18, 2013, 09:46:47 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on August 18, 2013, 09:14:40 PM
Cheetor, I am surprised to learn that the Inquisitor rules are based on Confrontation system- is Inquisitor a roleplay type game?

Basically yes.  Its a game designed to be played in a narrative fashion with a GM.  The in game mechanics of Inquisitor are the same as those for Confrontation as printed in White Dwarf in 1990 or (cant remember exactly right now).  Confrontation is the same game as Inquisitor mechanically speaking IIRC.  Neither game is really what I am looking for these days, but they are fun reads for fans of the 40k setting.

Quote from: weismonsters on August 18, 2013, 09:14:40 PM
There is a lot to be said for fast streamlined systems too, just not quite my cup of tea (having said that I did enjoy the card-based system of Gears of War where orders cards doubled up as wound counters- totally unrealistic but super efficient game mechanic).

I love that mechanic in the Gears boardgame, its great fun to use.  The "realism" that I am looking for in a system is a cinematic sort of realism.  The actions=wounds aspect of the Gears of War boardgame is just a mechanic for conveying peril, like music in a film.  I like not to get too bogged down in the minutiae of what these things represent as long as holistically the game feels to me like I feel that it should.  In game "realism" is in the eye of the beholder and dense rulesets do not make things more or less realistic as far as I am concerned, but YMMV etc.

Anyway thats a bit OT.  Inquisitor is mechanically essentially the same game as Confrontation and is a hybrid of role playing game and tabletop skirmish.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 18, 2013, 09:52:33 PM
Quote from: cheetor on August 18, 2013, 09:46:47 PM
a mechanic for conveying peril, like music in a film. 

Totally agree. It creates the right atmosphere, you are getting shot up, and your options are decreasing and the world is closing in on you. It creates a realsitic sense of drama and in that sense it is realistic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lord of Jerwood on August 18, 2013, 10:01:09 PM
I know this is not strictly not GW but can anyone help me to trace theses. I believe they were made by someone called doc thunder but can find anything beyond 2009.

(http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/jamie1907/Female%20Guard/body_changes-s_zps50d5667b.jpg) (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/jamie1907/media/Female%20Guard/body_changes-s_zps50d5667b.jpg.html)

 (http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/jamie1907/Female%20Guard/IMG_0109_zps08f7b81c.jpg) (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/jamie1907/media/Female%20Guard/IMG_0109_zps08f7b81c.jpg.html) 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 19, 2013, 01:43:42 AM
No idea, but I'd personally rather wait for Vic Lamb's versions.

http://victoriaminiatures.info/category/news/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 20, 2013, 03:00:13 AM
I thnk I've heard of those IG models before. You're not the first to ask after them, but the maker has long disappeared. Vermis probably has the best advice there.

As far as GW thinks, women do not actually exist (except for Slaanesh and space witches). In the grim drakness of the far future, mankind is a species of self-replicating hermaphrodites. With a "NO GURLZ ALOUD!!1" sign on their clubhouse.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: answer_is_42 on August 31, 2013, 05:32:47 PM
Anyone seen the latest Space Marine release? Among other things, the plastic commander box will be £18.

EIGH-TEEN POUNDS for a single plastic 28mm figure.

For that I could buy, say, forty Perry WOTR infantry, fourteen figures from Copplestone, twelve from Foundry, a platoon plus support weapons from Flames of War, etc, etc, etc...

Whatever the head office at GW are on, I want some. It most be lovely living is such a state of detachment from reality.  lol

Sorry. I'll leave now.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: GladioHumanitas on August 31, 2013, 05:39:03 PM
Seen it, and the commander has a grand total 8 (or was it 9 or was that the librarian) different parts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on August 31, 2013, 06:17:25 PM
Quote from: Lord of Jerwood on August 18, 2013, 10:01:09 PM
I know this is not strictly not GW but can anyone help me to trace theses. I believe they were made by someone called doc thunder but can find anything beyond 2009.

(http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/jamie1907/Female%20Guard/body_changes-s_zps50d5667b.jpg) (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/jamie1907/media/Female%20Guard/body_changes-s_zps50d5667b.jpg.html)

 (http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx54/jamie1907/Female%20Guard/IMG_0109_zps08f7b81c.jpg) (http://s741.photobucket.com/user/jamie1907/media/Female%20Guard/IMG_0109_zps08f7b81c.jpg.html) 


Check out the work in progress forum moderated by Grey Death. Doc Thunder also did some female marines too.

Quite a while back though so good luck finding them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on September 01, 2013, 01:48:50 PM
Quote from: answer_is_42 on August 31, 2013, 05:32:47 PM
Anyone seen the latest Space Marine release? Among other things, the plastic commander box will be £18.

EIGH-TEEN POUNDS for a single plastic 28mm figure.

For that I could buy, say, forty Perry WOTR infantry, fourteen figures from Copplestone, twelve from Foundry, a platoon plus support weapons from Flames of War, etc, etc, etc...

Whatever the head office at GW are on, I want some. It most be lovely living is such a state of detachment from reality.  lol

Sorry. I'll leave now.  ;)

People are buying them and the £70 army books, so I'd say their on something good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 01, 2013, 02:05:41 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on September 01, 2013, 01:48:50 PM
People are buying them and the £70 army books, so I'd say their on something good.

Yup, it's the ppl buying them who's on something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 01, 2013, 03:59:18 PM
Some of the changes are welcome.  The tactical squad now has five squad/heavy weapons and a combi-weapon, and a decent range of close-combat options.  The plastic Sternguard have a really good mix of weapons and 8 combi-weapons.  Both are long-overdue.

Centurions hideous, but I like the idea of using them as mining rigs.  Not enough to buy them, mind.

Price increases not so nice, but 'twas ever thus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 01, 2013, 08:44:53 PM
Quote
EIGH-TEEN POUNDS for a single plastic 28mm figure.

yup - glad I was sitting down when I read that (and not drinking anything).

When I first saw the price I thought it was FailCast, but nope. Interestingly, neither of the character figures are FailCast - perhaps they've quietly given up on it, and this is a sign of things to come...

I wonder if they'll break the £20 barrier this year. Got to be one of the signs of the apocalypse - the real one, not the GW one ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 01, 2013, 11:13:04 PM
IIRC finecast (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/07/22) was only meant to be a stopgap between metal abandonment and total plastic production. How long that 'stopgap' is meant to last, I've no idea; but for the single army that outsells each other 40K faction and the entirety of WHFB, I would guess they'd invest to hurry it along a bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Glitzer on September 04, 2013, 05:34:35 PM
Quote from: zemjw on September 01, 2013, 08:44:53 PM
yup - glad I was sitting down when I read that (and not drinking anything).

When I first saw the price I thought it was FailCast, but nope. Interestingly, neither of the character figures are FailCast - perhaps they've quietly given up on it, and this is a sign of things to come...

I wonder if they'll break the £20 barrier this year. Got to be one of the signs of the apocalypse - the real one, not the GW one ;D

It does not surprise me that much. I've been watching (and playing part of the time) GW products for some years now. Back when i started I bought single metal minis for less than 10€ and even cheaper when i was in the UK. At least they cannot blame it on increasing pewter prices anymore  :) .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 04, 2013, 07:37:13 PM
I remember getting my 50p pocket money and going down to the toy shop each week to buy a new miniature. Prices for a general adventurer type (Citadel, Ral Partha, Grenadier) started at around 30p, rising to a whopping 80p for some of the ogres.

If I was really disciplined I would save up my pennies for a 'Regiment of Renown' box - £3 for 8 troopers and a character model (choice of leader, champion, musician or standard bearer).

Them were the days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Glitzer on September 04, 2013, 08:21:53 PM
Quote from: Cubs on September 04, 2013, 07:37:13 PM
I remember getting my 50p pocket money and going down to the toy shop each week to buy a new miniature. Prices for a general adventurer type (Citadel, Ral Partha, Grenadier) started at around 30p, rising to a whopping 80p for some of the ogres.

If I was really disciplined I would save up my pennies for a 'Regiment of Renown' box - £3 for 8 troopers and a character model (choice of leader, champion, musician or standard bearer).

Them were the days.
Sadly I wasted those Days of Glory with reading textbooks (I guess I was a very weird child).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 14, 2013, 08:25:55 AM
Just spotted on the GW site the Chapter deal. $20,000 (a bit over actually) NZ $.  I then looked to see what the markup is for the southern hemisphere and saw for the UK it is 7000 pounds. Roughly leaving $6000. For that price (if I was insane enough to buy that) I could buy a ticket to the UK, have a nice holiday, and ship the stuff back. I sincerely hope anyone down this way that does buy into this deal does exactly that.  o_o
 :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on September 14, 2013, 12:23:48 PM
I sincerely hope anyone who buys into that deal anywhere in the world has their friggin head examined cause it aint cheap anywhere!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Conquistador on September 14, 2013, 01:39:23 PM
I have middle and older aged adult friends and associates in the local gaming locale who complain constantly about the prices but then buy more figures.

I think:

1) Am I missing something?  I don't think so.  They all have miniatures for other game systems, some filling whole rooms.

2) Are they stupid?  They are very successful in many cases so that is not likely.

3) Are they mentally challenged?  Most don't have issues in that arena (other than maybe politics.)  And those that do actually stay on their meds.

4) Or what?  

I think I can explain by saying that they have played GW games together long before I moved here, they enjoy each others fellowship, and they don't want to risk having that camaraderie being lost by trying new rules or substituting otherwise viable, less expensive miniatures into the mix.  It's the "comfort food" of their gaming in some ways.  As the price of their pleasure goes up they pay it.

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on September 14, 2013, 01:53:55 PM
Don't get me wrong I play 40k and just spent over $250 on the new space marine releases but that deal is over $11000!
If it was a ancient Roman deal or French naps deal I would think the same thing.Its not what you get for the money or how much stuff its just dropping that much at one go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on September 14, 2013, 04:36:02 PM
I bought 1.. wait.. wait no i didn't.. got confused as its easy to forget about £7k ;)

On a serious note though you have to remember what's expensive to us is ain't what's expensive to others. I have an Uncle-in-law which follows Chelsea FC and England FC around the world that's a more expensive hobby by far.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 14, 2013, 04:46:10 PM
These things are definitely relative. I work with a guy who's nuts about Batman. He has original cover art, many, many pages, and everything is signed. Plus the comics, and collectibles. His collection would make most gamers aghast, I think. I know it makes me spin thinking of how much he must spend on it all!

I was very happy to leave Games Workshop behind. The value I get out of historical gaming is exponentially greater - the biggest purchase I've ever made was from Perry. It was their D19 deal, which is no longer available. Similar to this one:
Quote
D18 French Army Deal - Mounted Napoleon pack, 16 plastic box sets of French Napoleonic Infantry (672 Infantry), 1 pack of Mounted Colonels, 1 pack of generals, 1 pack of Corps commanders, 3 packs of Line foot artillery. 8 plastic box sets of cuirassiers/carabiniers (112 cavalry) 1 pack of heavy cavalry commanders, the Marshal Ney pack, 3 packs of Line horse artillery. Actual price £457.00 -Deal price £390.00 POST FREE!
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=66_68&products_id=2544&osCsid=umru2946rvcgckaatps4mq0sc3 (http://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?cPath=66_68&products_id=2544&osCsid=umru2946rvcgckaatps4mq0sc3)
Except I got a copy of Black Powder with it, signed by everyone remotely related to the project, even editor Talima Fox. The photos are all signed where they photoshopped the people in  :D For me, this was unbelievable value. How could you do that kind of thing at GW? You can't.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 17, 2013, 03:02:50 AM
It occurs to me that there's one possible reason explaining why there's no significant discount on the huge £7000 boxed set: There's the very real risk of a third-party dealer buying a bunch and parting them out. They wouldn't really be able to stop that because it would be a straight up retail purchase, which consumers are legally allowed (in most countries) to dispose of as they see fit.

If true, I would find it hilarious that GW choose to guard against that possibility in such a way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on September 17, 2013, 03:14:26 AM
Is there a discount at all on the set?  I don't plan to tally it up to find out.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 17, 2013, 04:30:52 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on September 17, 2013, 03:02:50 AM
It occurs to me that there's one possible reason explaining why there's no significant discount on the huge £7000 boxed set: There's the very real risk of a third-party dealer buying a bunch and parting them out. They wouldn't really be able to stop that because it would be a straight up retail purchase, which consumers are legally allowed (in most countries) to dispose of as they see fit.

If true, I would find it hilarious that GW choose to guard against that possibility in such a way.

I did that with the old Apocalypse Company box! They were like half price with a discount I got at the local shop. So I smelled a great selling opportunity - and I was right!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 17, 2013, 06:14:17 AM
Quote from: Timbor on September 17, 2013, 03:14:26 AM
Is there a discount at all on the set?  I don't plan to tally it up to find out.  lol

Apparently it only comes to something like $300 USD (the set's about $12000 USD), which is practically a rounding error. This pales compared to the recent battle boxes where you'd get say infantry and three tanks for the price of the infantry.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 17, 2013, 07:40:39 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on September 17, 2013, 03:02:50 AM
It occurs to me that there's one possible reason explaining why there's no significant discount on the huge £7000 boxed set: There's the very real risk of a third-party dealer buying a bunch and parting them out.

Of course, but they would still have made the sale. If they are affraid of that procedure, they'll have to avoid discounts per se.

Btw, I was at a local hobby store yesterday, and I noticed that they have far less GW-stuff than on an earlier occation. When I asked, if they are phasing it out, the answer was: 'No, but the Price level means that we do not sell very much, and thus we cannot afford to stock a whole lot.'

This is a store that does not exist on selling games stuff. I wonder what is happening to FLGSs relying much on selling GW-products these days...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 17, 2013, 11:42:49 AM
My local store don't deal with GW any more. Can't even shift their stuff on sale because the market where I live is soo small. Still have metal treeman I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on September 18, 2013, 08:46:24 AM
I know someone who runs an online shop and has decided to no longer sell GW stuff as its not worth the hassle/effort any more. When he started, he was more or less 90% GW sales, so its a bit of a change.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 18, 2013, 10:21:40 AM
It does seem like the wind has well and truly shifted. There are so many viable alternatives these days - mins and games - that GW's gamble on being able to milk a core faithful is looking shakier and shakier each year.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on September 19, 2013, 10:33:26 AM
Quote from: Cubs on September 18, 2013, 10:21:40 AM
...GW's gamble on being able to milk a core faithful is looking shakier and shakier each year.

I wouldn't say that. Theres plenty of people out there still willing to pay for their marines fix. The GW website crashed through people trying to order the new marine stuff a while back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 19, 2013, 10:45:12 AM
I disagree. What I see is GW's rivals taking a bigger slice of the pie each year and GW being a byword for comedy price rises. They have clever marketeers out there to get a boost in sales every now and then, but they rely purely on the Space Marines right now, whereas they used to be a company with a healthy spread of eggs in several baskets. It's a risky business model and the fact that the big crash hasn't happened yet doesn't mean the risk of it is any less.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on September 19, 2013, 10:46:53 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 17, 2013, 11:42:49 AM
My local store don't deal with GW any more. Can't even shift their stuff on sale because the market where I live is soo small. Still have metal treeman I think.

Lotr ones? How much? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on September 19, 2013, 10:50:15 AM
I have half a dozen...  you should have asked....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 19, 2013, 10:59:47 AM
Quote from: Kitsune on September 19, 2013, 10:33:26 AM
Theres plenty of people out there still willing to pay for their marines fix.

But fewer of them, if the people taking about sales numbers are right.

Every time there's a new release, or a price rise (usually coinciding), some people give up on 'the GW hobby™'. But some don't feel the need to protest the soaring costs, claiming with a beatific air that they don't mind paying out because it's still 'good value' to them.
I sometimes wonder where their cut-off is. Maybe it'll be somewhere around the point where they gladly pay £18 per plastic tactical marine - let alone plastic commanders - but can't game with them because the other two-dozen people keeping GW's head above water are too far-spread over the globe.
'Course then you'll probably still have some lotus-eater declaring "I don't mind booking flights halfway across the world every other week to play toy soldiers - it's still great value 'cos 40K is the best background evar!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 19, 2013, 11:02:48 AM
Quote from: Commander Vyper on September 19, 2013, 10:46:53 AM
Lotr ones? How much? :)
No, wood elf ones, I think at last view they were about $nz60 so not much of a saving.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on September 19, 2013, 11:26:19 AM
Quote from: Cubs on September 18, 2013, 10:21:40 AM
There are so many viable alternatives these days - mins and games

There aren't. If you take a look at GW's annual report (http://investor.games-workshop.com/2013/07/29/2012-2013-annual-report/), you can find a list of potential risks in the CEO's section. They are:

People (that is, their staff)
Fantasy becoming unfashionable (where 'fantasy' obviously covers all fiction including marines)
The factory burns down
External threats (costs, materials, taxes, recessions)
Counterfeit products

The last point is elaborated by losing control of IP or someone making illegal copies. This part is sort of interesting in itself:

Quote
Should that change, or we meet intransigent small infringers, we have copyright, trademark and passing off law to protect our imagery and we have never been shy of using legal redress if needed. Our legal department deals with dozens of cases each year with satisfactory results.

The scale upon which we do business is the biggest defence against this threat. The cases we deal with (and there are dozens each year) are nearly all single individuals or small businesses who 'cease and desist' as soon as they get the letter. Those who don't should be stopped more because we need to ensure everyone knows we are serious about defending our IP rather than because of the immediate threat of damage to our profits.

Read: small players can be bullied out without due process in borderline cases. Only Chapterhouse was crazy enough to go to court. Anyway, that wasn't the point of this post. I was getting to the observation that nowhere they admit the existence of alternative miniature manufacturers or game systems. Computer games, yes. Card games and RPGs, yes. Counterfeit copies, yes. Never the possibility of someone else coming up with a miniature game. It's not admitted to their fan base nor to their investors. PP, Wyrd, Battlefront, Mantic, Corvus Belli and such just don't exist. Miniatures = space marines.

Meanwhile, in Vancouver I saw a full-blown gaming store which only stocked PP and Wyrd, yet not even a single token box of the Hobbit, IIRC. Last weekend we ran a multi-system tournament with Warmachine players clearly outnumbering 40k and roughly matching WHFB. This just couldn't have happened 10 years ago with any alternative system.

Then again, WHFB and 40k are brilliant systems, because they (sort of) cover all fantasy and sci-fi. They have enough branded stuff to differentiate the worlds from their generic counterparts, but anything can be shoe-horned in. Basically, if you want to stage a classic fantasy combat between elves, goblins and humans, of the widely available products WHFB is your system, not Warmachine or Malifaux. That's why those behemoths are so hard to displace. The only way to cover equally many typical fantasy or sci-fi races and settings is to make a "GW rip-off". You can make fairly original games in a steampunk world but that's just not as cool or widely appealing.

And now I no longer know whether I got to my actual point or lost it completely...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Conquistador on September 19, 2013, 11:51:42 AM
Quote from: Dolmot on September 19, 2013, 11:26:19 AM
There aren't.<snip>

Then again, WHFB and 40k are brilliant systems, because they (sort of) cover all fantasy and sci-fi. They have enough branded stuff to differentiate the worlds from their generic counterparts, but anything can be shoe-horned in. Basically, if you want to stage a classic fantasy combat between elves, goblins and humans, of the widely available products WHFB is your system, not Warmachine or Malifaux. That's why those behemoths are so hard to displace. The only way to cover equally many typical fantasy or sci-fi races and settings is to make a "GW rip-off". You can make fairly original games in a steampunk world but that's just not as cool or widely appealing.

And now I no longer know whether I got to my actual point or lost it completely...

Yes, there are.     ::)

Brilliant does not come to mind when I think of those games.   :P

There have been, before GW, many great rules for Fantasy and SF games; there are now; and there will be after GW goes away.  What GW does best is market and, almost as well, unabashedly coerce young (and old) gamers into the "GW Hobby" mindset.    o_o

"... Basically, if you want to stage a classic fantasy combat between elves, goblins and humans, of the widely available products WHFB is your system, not Warmachine or Malifaux."  If your world is restricted to just those three, perhaps.  I have not played any of them but I have played many such games since the 1970's quite satisfactorily.

"... (sort of) cover all fantasy and sci-fi"  - Damned by faint praise at best.  And highly inaccurate.  Not to mention the kool-aid stains...

"...  The only way to cover equally many typical fantasy or sci-fi races and settings is to make a "GW rip-off"."  That is a most amazingly arrogant and ignorant assertion.  Here is a refutation of such drivel: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/timeline2.html that may enlighten you.

Gracias,

Glenn
 

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 19, 2013, 12:34:01 PM
Kind of what he said. GW is so incestuous it is its own sister. They don't appear to have realised yet that the Warhammer and WH40K universes are not the sum of the hobby and that by ignoring that possibility, they are feeding their rivals. Getting rid of the core of their visionary creators and senior staff didn't help either. All they did was toddle off and ... surprise surprise ... start up rival companies!

GW did not invent Fantasy or Sci-Fi, and if they lifted their heads away from the copyright lists they might see that gamers and hobbyists have many, many more colourful and inviting games systems and some exceptional miniature ranges, all at a fraction of the GW cost. Twenty years ago, this most certainly was not the case. The only people who think that WHFB and WH40K are the only 'real' games are the die-hard Fanboyz and since fanaticism grows on opposition, it's probably best not to try to talk to them sensibly.

No-one needs to try to copy GW, GW only copied other games, mythologies, universes etc.. and, fair play to them, they did it very well. I loved Warhammer as a kid and if it wasn't for Citadel miniatures I probably wouldn't be in the hobby today. They revolutionised the way hobbyists collect and model and pioneered a very effective monopoly on the whole genre. Hats off.

But there are now other options and they're growing every day. The slick marketing, the gorgeous sculpts and paintjobs and the professionalism that brought GW its success is not something they can copyright and other companies are doing very nicely off it. That's without talking about disgruntled ex-GWers who feel cheated by a company they supported for years.

By GW's own figures, they are making less sales, yet making higher profits off those sales. This is allowing them to just about make a small profit, when taking into account the money from selling licences. Not bad in an economic depression, eh? Well, the problem is, hobby sales actually tend to rise during an economic depression, as people turn to 'feel good' sales and look at the amount of quality companies we now have who have appeared and flourished during the same period.

How are GW going to grow that shrinking pool of customers? They've lost a big part of the independent market now, with more and more retailers getting shot of GW's products. If they were selling, that wouldn't be happening. That means the gaming community outside of GW-owned clubs is playing other systems. Less and less parents will be introducing their children to the game ... it goes on. Who on earth is making these decisions? The people in charge have inherited a superbly successful and beloved hobby company and done something unpleasant to it.

I don't have any antipathy towards GW as a whole and don't have any axe to grind. In fact my fondest childhood memories of the hobby all centre around the Warhammer game and the miniatures. But other companies now provide comparable or superior (in my own opinion of course) figures, rulebooks and hobby supplies at a fraction of the cost. I'd have to be an even bigger eejit than I am not to recognise that. I wish GW could have been content with being the market leader, instead of concentrating its energies on being a market dictator.

But hey, what do I know? I'm speculating based on what I've seen over the thirty years I've been in the hobby. I'm wrong more than I'm right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on September 19, 2013, 06:00:52 PM
I would say that for mass fantasy/sci fi battles, GW still has the upper hand in quality barring a few unfortunate recent releases.  A certain amount of 'you get what you pay for' does apply, as most of the knockoff stuff is just not the same quality overall.  Though the market of skirmish games has really produced some gorgeous miniatures.  However, on a per figure basis, I don't find skirmish miniatures any cheaper (if not more expensive in some cases).  You just need less of them for a game.

GW is projecting the image of a high-end game, which has associated status compared to 'cheaper' and 'value' games.  Luckily I am young enough that I will be able to observe if they make a success of it in the end.  My bet is they will still be around in 15+ years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 19, 2013, 06:16:08 PM
Nicely said, Glenn and Cubs!

Quote from: Conquistador on September 19, 2013, 11:51:42 AM
Yes, there are.     ::)

Brilliant does not come to mind when I think of those games.   :P

There have been, before GW, many great rules for Fantasy and SF games; there are now; and there will be after GW goes away.  What GW does best is market and, almost as well, unabashedly coerce young (and old) gamers into the "GW Hobby" mindset.    o_o

Agreed wholeheartedly.  I remember when I used to think Warhammer was the only fantasy game in town - back when I only hung around GW Belfast. These days I'm spoiled for choice for fantasy games, even with Warhammer kicked off the bottom of the list...

Quote
"... Basically, if you want to stage a classic fantasy combat between elves, goblins and humans, of the widely available products WHFB is your system, not Warmachine or Malifaux."  If your world is restricted to just those three, perhaps.  I have not played any of them but I have played many such games since the 1970's quite satisfactorily.

... and Warmahordes and Malifaux barely registering on the list.  ;)

Quote
"... (sort of) cover all fantasy and sci-fi"  - Damned by faint praise at best.  And highly inaccurate.  Not to mention the kool-aid stains...

I recently read posts by another guy who declared that the 40K and WHFB systems reigned supreme because they were all you ever needed for any game, any period, any scale; and I wasn't too impressed by that either. One of his points was that if you wanted to play historical vikings, you could collect a Space Wolf army. All the guns and power armour and psykers etc. just made it 'better'.  ;D

Quote
Here is a refutation of such drivel: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~beattie/timeline2.html that may enlighten you.

There's some of my evening's reading sorted out.

But all that said...

Quote
GW only copied other games, mythologies, universes etc.. and, fair play to them, they did it very well. I loved Warhammer as a kid and if it wasn't for Citadel miniatures I probably wouldn't be in the hobby today.

Agreed there too. GW even introduced me to what a good game and system really was, via Epic: Armageddon. Ironic that they considered it and other Specialist Games a 'rival option' towards the end, when they still supported it, or at least acknowledged it's existance. Now you could say it's truly a rival option, all but owned by the fan community, albeit on a pretty small scale. (No, not the mm height!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on September 19, 2013, 07:16:13 PM
Well, that got too surreal for words.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 19, 2013, 07:56:15 PM
Quote from: Timbor on September 19, 2013, 06:00:52 PM
Luckily I am young enough that I will be able to observe if they make a success of it in the end.  My bet is they will still be around in 15+ years.

Cheeky get! I hope I'll be here in 15yrs time as well!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Conquistador on September 19, 2013, 11:21:24 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on September 19, 2013, 07:16:13 PM
Well, that got too surreal for words.

Sometimes reality does that.   ;)   lol

Gracias,

Glenn
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on September 19, 2013, 11:22:44 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on September 19, 2013, 07:16:13 PM
Well, that got too surreal for words.

Thanks for posting that quote and your thoughts. I didnt agree with all you wrote, but dont feel the need to make personally belittling comments as a result of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on September 20, 2013, 02:37:26 PM
Quote from: Conquistador on September 19, 2013, 11:51:42 AM
...

OK, I'm just leaving for a gaming weekend at a remote cottage but I'd like to clarify a few things you may not be fully aware of:


All these can be verified with medium effort.

And now we got to the actual point, which is the sad state of reality where I live. Regardless of myself owning those books and fantasy minis from ~20 manufacturers:


I also like to tell myself the lie that alternative gaming is viable and doing well, but it's only remotely connected to the reality. That's why I play and organise something completely different (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=56630.0) where I don't have to compete directly with GW products. Congratulations if in your neck of the woods other games actually get played. I'm trying but it's a tedious uphill struggle, stealing the free time I could use to actually play games.

So would you like to check the facts, re-read the topic and reconsider your motives to publicly call me a fanboy, "arrogant", "ignorant", "kool-aid drinker" and "unenlightened"? Or did you simply look for a juicy target to blurt out that outright offensive stock drivel without even bothering to check the basics first? You surely did nice job getting a few pals to join the bashing ring based on false assumptions and accusations.

Have a nice weekend. I'll check the state of affairs when I return.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 20, 2013, 04:14:47 PM
May I ask all involved to cool down so that we can try to continue this discussion in a civilized and polite fashion. And, I repeat, this goes out to ALL involved, so nobody should feel specifically-targeted.

Also, may I point out that the usual state of affairs for a local gaming community is most likely strongly influenced by the most popular games around, which tend to be GW. Now, "popular" is not a byword for quality, and I strongly recall an age where we were quite happy that our FLGS did stock other games next to GW, but they never quite reached critical mass to become a viable venture for the FLGS to keep supporting it, or when they did, the company failed due to problems higher up the chain (Target Games, I'm looking at you), leaving those that had invested in the game stranded.

This led to the local players falling back unto established games, and at that time, the entry-level barrier towards GW games was much lower than it is today. As has been pointed out, getting people together for a game of 40k was much easier than anything else.

I'm worried to see it again at the moment with Dystopian Wars - my FLGS has a lot of stuff from that range due to a strong influx of new gamers when the latest rulebook was released, but that seems to have fizzled, and I am worried he may never shift all of the product, leaving him with a high investment not to be recouped quickly (and that was actually not overbuying, but rather stocking a wide, but limited selection of the range available).

It may also be a case of biased perception in that we meet in an international online discussion forum not linked to a single game or period, which will obviously leave an impression that all the gaming world is such a multi-faceted place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 20, 2013, 04:44:57 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on September 20, 2013, 04:14:47 PM
Now, "popular" is not a byword for quality

Same goes for music... Just look at Beiber and One Direction  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 20, 2013, 05:14:05 PM
I think that GW's best function is, as mentioned, as an introduction to tabletop gaming. Many people even on these very boards started with oldhammer so many years ago. Or, if not, it was a flavour of Warhammer that at least made them aware of the existence of tabletop wargaming.  

GW has an organized presence in physical shops and branded shops of their own, making them much more accessible to anyone who doesn't pick up tabletop wargaming in a club. Plus by covering both sci-fi and conventional fantasy they have entry points for most people, regardless of interest (and at one point they even had historical too). Also, interest in historicals is something that tends to attract an older crowd (old enough to have actually done a few history classes and be interested in it anyway). Anyway, like Microsoft for PCs or Apple for phones, they become the default option due to their dominance and ubiquity - a standard.

Like any corporate behemoth, they have inertia that lets them get away with some poor practices that might cripple a smaller company. McVey/CMON is suffering much more for the quality failures of their KS shipments than GW is from Finecast. These are (unfortunately) minor in the scheme of things and won't hurt GW that much.

The biggest gripe about GW is price - and that IS a relevant gripe. Concerns about piracy, proxy figures, and reselling are concerns that arise because the normal price is seen by some consumers as unfair or unaffordable. People argue about rule systems or figure preferences as a personal thing, but the pocketbook matters. Especially given GW's status as a "gateway drug" for tabletop gaming.

I try to deal with facts as much as I can there. The reality as has been posted several times is that GW IS raising prices and has been doing so for some years now, testing just what the market will bear. As a result, profits have risen and the company is doing very well at the moment. Sale of 40k licenses for video gaming is also a revenue stream no other tabletop gaming companies really have. Collapse is not imminent. But the sales figures also show declining numbers of sales, both in terms of overall volume of sales and in number of buyers. This leads to two things:

1) The company has at least partially failed to recognize that it's their accessibility that is one of the keys to their success. If you're the entry point for an entire industry, it's TERRIBLE to also be that industry's most expensive vendor. Or they assume that just being present is physically enough. Kind of like the fellow who goes on a date and assumes the girl will like him just because he's the one who showed up.

2) Sales figures are being propped up by an ever-shrinking customer base who are individually spending more. It is not unreasonable to guess that these are the die-hards or longtime players with an investment in the game. Older players like that are more likely to have adult incomes that can support the GW hobby at current pricing. IF that is the case (and I wish we had figures for this), then GW's customer base is both shrinking AND aging, which is terrible. That would mean that the company is mortgaging it's future for the sake of current profits (a common phenomenon these days). Note that the PLAYER base is different from the CUSTOMER base as many people play GW using old used figs, substitutes, or the like, which masks the problem a bit.

The real question is whether they continue to raise prices in excess of inflation or industry averages or whether they level off. If they level it off at current prices, they might survive just fine. If they keep raising it, well... everyone has their breaking point. The time might come when the average player who still buys regularly finds themselves staring down a single $50 Space Marine librarian and decides it's time to drop this frighteningly expensive hobby. If the customer base is small enough, the bottom could actually drop out with "no warning", after an increase that "breaks the camel's back". Not that every GW player will resign en masse, but you'd start to see BIG dropoffs instead of the small gradual ones of the past decade.

If that happens, lowering prices back to the most recent before the increase won't get those lost players back in. It's always harder to recover lost customers or get new ones than to keep existing ones after all. What that might mean for GW or the hobby in general, I don't know, but I doubt it'll be much good to anyone.  

==================

A word on the online factor: Loads of kids today are getting into things online first. So GW's shop presence is not as crucial a factor in getting kids into minis gaming these days (though it certainly still matters). Something like Pulp Alley - easy to learn easy to learn and only requiring a few figures of your own choosing - is just as attractive as an entry point for kids. The only real drawback is the smaller community, which makes it more difficult to find a game. A lot of times local game groups have a particular game that might not be popular on a large scale, but are played heavily locally, sometimes because one or two people got the local group into it. That props up a lot of the smaller game companies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 20, 2013, 05:37:14 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on September 20, 2013, 04:44:57 PM
Same goes for music... Just look at Beiber and One Direction  lol

cheers

James

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Canada is awfully sorry for Bieber. And Celine Dion before that. We are currently working on genetic testing to identify anomalies in singing talent, and to reduce all such people to the level of Nickelback. A general dislike is tolerable - seething hatred is not! Thank you.  :D

GW is such an odd company.

The thing that has piqued my interest lately are the for-sale pdf hobby articles. They sell for like $3 or something, which is not much, except when one realizes that was the content from the website, and White Dwarf, that has now been put into a pdf or whatever, and sold. So what used to be value-added content and free, is now pay-for content.

A good commercial model, to nickel-and-dime your customers, but sad, too, isn't it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 20, 2013, 06:39:22 PM
Wow. That got rustic pretty quickly.

Imagine if we were talking about anything that mattered.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 20, 2013, 06:52:57 PM
Quote from: Cubs on September 20, 2013, 06:39:22 PM
Imagine if we were talking about anything that mattered.

Bah, then we'd never have agreement.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 20, 2013, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on September 20, 2013, 06:52:57 PM
Bah, then we'd never have agreement.

Yes we would.

(http://t.fod4.com/t/be76d3ca8d/c480x270_38.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on September 20, 2013, 08:06:10 PM
Dolmot, very well said. I take my hat off to you.

I also dislike the bashing ring mentality.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 21, 2013, 09:04:04 AM
Can I just ask that people refrain from brutal ring bashing on this forum. It is an inappropriate venue for such antics and can cause permanent damage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 21, 2013, 09:07:56 AM
Um....  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 24, 2013, 03:23:38 AM
Squats?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on September 24, 2013, 09:01:09 AM
Quote from: grant on September 24, 2013, 03:23:38 AM
Squats?



Yeah, I think something's going round.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 24, 2013, 05:25:14 PM
Gesundheit!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 28, 2013, 01:29:48 AM
New dark elves are up for preorder. I actually am fairly impressed, if only they were metal ;)
The medusa is quite a nice piece.
Luckily for me I got rid of all my old dark elf miniatures a couple of weeks ago with the current army book back then. I think the price I got would be a bit less as i sold the army book in mint condition too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 28, 2013, 03:01:49 AM
10 plastic infantry are now $40 in Canada. HOLY #*$&ing @#&*!

No, these are just obscenely overpriced. Seriously - $40? WOW. NO! NO! NO!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 28, 2013, 04:37:59 AM
 lol I didn't say impressed with the price. Just the minis look quite cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on September 28, 2013, 09:40:38 AM
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod2250008a

We have now reached £35 for ten plastic figures lol. Unbelievable. How can they maintain this business model?

To put it in perspective, twenty plastic Witch Elves will cost you £70. For £10 LESS than that, you can buy 120 WotR Infantry, a pack of metal WotR Commanders and a crewed WotR artillery piece in Perry's £60 army deal!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on September 28, 2013, 10:12:57 AM
The cult of Khaine deal is £194.

Its components bought separately are £185 (4 x 35 + 1 x 45).

A very special deal for you.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on September 28, 2013, 10:23:04 AM
I am now going to benchmark all hobby prices by how many Witch Elves I could get :D

D 27 Yorkist Host – 5 x Plastic Wars boxes of the Roses Infantry, 1 x plastic box of ‘Mercenaries’(240 infantry), 1 x plastic box of Mounted Men at Arms (12 cavalry),  1 metal pack of mounted command and  2 x metal  packs of artillery - £130 Army Deal. Or 30 plastic Witch Elves. Though you are ten pounds away from having 40 plastic Witch Elves :D

Quote
The cult of Khaine deal is £194.

Its components bought separately are £185 (4 x 35 + 1 x 45).

A very special deal for you.

Well, someone has taken the time to put all of those bits together into a convenient one-click experience. That kind of service has got to be worth £9 right? :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 28, 2013, 10:38:22 AM
I'm in my early 40's with a decent job, no kids and no wife.  I have LOTS of cash to spend on my distractions.  That said, I havent bought a GW product in about 10 years, if you dont count things like paint.  But minis?  10 years at least.

I love so many aspects of their sculpts, but the price was a deal breaker for me.  Some folks have pointed out GW as a 'gateway game', and for me that was true.  It got me into tabletop, both with fantasy and Sci Fi.  But now, especially today, there are SO MANY great manufacturers, with MUCH better prices, I'd be crazy to stick with GW.  My money just goes to much further.

I'd rail against finecast, but everything that needs to be said has been already.  And to be honest, I had already walked away from GW by the time finecast appeared.  But had I not, it would have caused me to leave.  Brittle resin does not make a good gaming mini!

Happy gaming Mates!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 28, 2013, 11:05:14 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 28, 2013, 10:38:22 AM
I love so many aspects of their sculpts, but the price was a deal breaker for me.  Some folks have pointed out GW as a 'gateway game', and for me that was true. 

Fortunately for us, gates work both ways I guess.

Nice sculpts, plenty of movement (although the hair is very poorly done), although if I'm honest I find the fetishism a bit too adolescent for my taste. But then, I'm probably 25yrs over the target age market.

Let's the pretend the price is real and not just something for us to laugh about, whilst shaking our heads and wiping a tear from our eyes. As gags go, it's a pretty good one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 28, 2013, 11:19:11 AM
Agreed!

In fairness, I really like their work under Citadel and Marauder, right before the 'merge' to Games Workshop.  It had a campy character that had its own voice.  My collection of Dark Future in 20mm is huge, I'm crazy about that stuff.  Great faces, hair, poses.  Just a very nice line.

I agree, the new stuff looks the same to me, very fetishy and almost cartoony now.  I like 'cartoony' hinted, as their older stuff was, but now it's quite over the top.  A shame really, all the way around. 

But with lines like Perry, Plastic Soldier, and all the other examples that you guys gave here, GW is no longer a viable option.  Heck, you even get about 20% less paint for the same darn money!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 28, 2013, 11:48:21 AM
It's why I made the (very painful) switch over to Vallejo paints a couple of years ago. I've never had any issue with GW paints - even the price I could live with - but then my Dad bought me a pack of Vallejo paints one Christmas.

I smiled and made the right noises, but quietly left them to gather dust on the shelf. Then one day I needed a drab grey colour that happened to be in the pack and the rest was history.

It took me a while to get used to the shaking needed to mix the Vallejo paints before use and I'm not a fan of the dropper bottle, but I loved the quality of the paint, the subtletly of the shades and was pleasantly surprised to find how cheap they were.

When GW changed their entire paint range - names and shades - it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Familiarity and convenience were the last things tying me to their paints and they cut that cord themselves. I went through a surprisingly painless transition, going to the local Ian Allen Bookshop and looking at their Vallejo rack to learn the colours, and I've never looked back since.

I now buy empty paint pots from SHC http://www.shcweb.co.uk/eshop/ and mix up my own labelled shades using mostly Vallejo, with colour swatches on the front for when I need to top up. It's cheap, convenient and saves me a hell of a lot of time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 28, 2013, 04:53:42 PM
I really can't take the new witch elf poses seriously - they look like they're boogeying on down at some 70s disco o_o

I liked the medusa until I noticed the something dripping off her. No idea what it's meant to be, but spoiled the model for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 28, 2013, 05:37:25 PM
Quote from: Gibby on September 28, 2013, 09:40:38 AM
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod2250008a

We have now reached £35 for ten plastic figures lol. Unbelievable. How can they maintain this business model?


I'm afraid I didn't see the Witch Elves. Now the 10 spear fellow at $40 seem an absolute bargain! Canadian price: $70. Current exchange is something like 1.6 to mighty £, so double isn't even close. Not that the £ price was anything worth starting out at.

Holy moly.

(http://www.myalbum.ca/Photo-TTAJIOXO-D.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 30, 2013, 09:16:37 AM
Quote from: Cubs on September 28, 2013, 11:48:21 AM

When GW changed their entire paint range - names and shades - it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Familiarity and convenience were the last things tying me to their paints and they cut that cord themselves. I went through a surprisingly painless transition, going to the local Ian Allen Bookshop and looking at their Vallejo rack to learn the colours, and I've never looked back since.

I now buy empty paint pots from SHC http://www.shcweb.co.uk/eshop/ and mix up my own labelled shades using mostly Vallejo, with colour swatches on the front for when I need to top up. It's cheap, convenient and saves me a hell of a lot of time.

It's not the first time they changed the whole range, but this time it also really bugs me. I also have the 'familiarity and convenience' issue with the new range, and seriously consider gradually switching to Vallejo. Vallejo is not as easy to find 'round here, though.

SHC is not really an option for me, as their shipping rates start at £18.50  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: ink the troll on September 30, 2013, 09:41:43 AM
Quote from: Argonor on September 30, 2013, 09:16:37 AM
It's not the first time they changed the whole range, but this time it also really bugs me. I also have the 'familiarity and convenience' issue with the new range, and seriously consider gradually switching to Vallejo. Vallejo is not as easy to find 'round here, though.

SHC is not really an option for me, as their shipping rates start at £18.50  :o

If you can't find another shop that's a bit closer, try Battlefield Berlin (http://www.shop.battlefield-berlin.de) (shipping to Denmark is €10).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 30, 2013, 11:12:39 AM
I use to get mixing pots from Black Hat - they carry the type used by Coat d'Arms and also used by Foundry (and the original Citadel paints).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on October 05, 2013, 04:01:21 AM
Quote from: Cubs on September 28, 2013, 11:05:14 AM
Nice sculpts, plenty of movement (although the hair is very poorly done)

It's to get back at Roginshirroz and their more-hair-than-anything elves, y'know. (Adjusts tinfoil hat)

I don't mind the new releases. I'll even grudgingly admit that Trish Carden's new hydra is an improvement on the last (horrible) version.* Wouldn't actually buy any of them, though.

*Though if she says she wanted to give it snake heads, it might've helped to look at snakes. That's Trish in a nutshell, I think. For one of GW's long-established creature sculptors, she doesn't seem to have a great grasp on how creatures work.

Quote from: Cubs on September 28, 2013, 11:48:21 AM
It took me a while to get used to the shaking needed to mix the Vallejo paints before use and I'm not a fan of the dropper bottle, but I loved the quality of the paint, the subtletly of the shades and was pleasantly surprised to find how cheap they were.

When GW changed their entire paint range - names and shades - it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Familiarity and convenience were the last things tying me to their paints and they cut that cord themselves...
I now buy empty paint pots from SHC http://www.shcweb.co.uk/eshop/ and mix up my own labelled shades using mostly Vallejo, with colour swatches on the front for when I need to top up. It's cheap, convenient and saves me a hell of a lot of time.

To be honest, the best thing I like about Vallejo is the fact they've got so many different shades in the model color range. I've had plenty of different problems, mostly relating to that bleedin' dropper, including seperation, clogging, grittiness, and cork brown going *pop* in my face.
But I digress. It's thanks to model color, Ral Partha's mini paints and Coat D'arms military ranges that I wasn't entirely tied to GW's old range, and I quite like a lot of the new - price nonwithstanding (though I see others rushing to keep up), and I do miss some of the discontinued colours. E.g. stormvermin grey is a great midtone for scots hodden grey, though for my tastes skavenblight dinge isn't quite brown enough as a shade. :) Charadon granite would've been great for that, and a lot of other things. Tallarn flesh, too. The new skintone 'bases', ratskin flesh and bugmans glow, are fairly astonishing orange and red tones.

I have a few CDA-style pots and dropper bottles from SHC, though somehow I've only used the latter for transferring old GW screw-tops, craft paints etc. I like 'em a lot better than Vallejo droppers! The design is a bit different - the hole in the nozzle is slightly larger, and placed inside the nozzle, at the bottom of a narrow-funnel-shaped channel. Eliminates some of the problem of pigment seperating and clogging the dropper, IMO.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 05, 2013, 10:15:20 AM
Definitely an improvement on the previous hydra! Still wouldn't get it though heads are still funny.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Franz_Josef on October 05, 2013, 04:36:37 PM
I used to buy their Warhammer Empire sculpts (made decent Landsknechts, Gendarmes and Reiters), but the newer sculpts have gotten wilder, bigger, and all-in-all less "realistic" and less useful.  And the price is prohibitive.  There are lots of good sculpts now, for appreciably less money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 05, 2013, 10:58:01 PM
Most of the colours are pretty useless as they are too colourful, almost comic book in tone etc.

I always get my wife to the inks for me as I hate going in there now  :? lol

Quote from: Franz_Josef on October 05, 2013, 04:36:37 PM
I used to buy their Warhammer Empire sculpts (made decent Landsknechts, Gendarmes and Reiters), but the newer sculpts have gotten wilder, bigger, and all-in-all less "realistic" and less useful.  And the price is prohibitive.  There are lots of good sculpts now, for appreciably less money.

Not enough puff and slash which is a shame but there are a few useful bits that can be utilised and the I think the great swords are probably the best but a bit static in their poses.

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on October 06, 2013, 01:00:36 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on October 05, 2013, 10:58:01 PM
Most of the colours are pretty useless as they are too colourful, almost comic book in tone etc.

What were scorpion green and bad moon yellow, then?  ;D ;)

Here's something that this topic was built for: seen this Beasts of War Announcement?

http://www.beastsofwar.com/games-workshop/announcement/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 06, 2013, 01:50:42 AM
I usually don't bother reading things like this because at the end of the day, I play with toy soldiers and life is too short to get imbroiled in this sort of thing but I would suggest that BoW fuck GW and report on everything else hobby related (obviously not the GW 'hobby').

There are many, many small companies, traders etc that would benefit from exposure from compaines such as BoW and not having any GW coverage will help that to happen.

Enough legal rubbish, I've got toys to play with  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 06, 2013, 09:45:21 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on October 06, 2013, 01:50:42 AM
I would suggest that BoW fuck GW and report on everything else hobby related (obviously not the GW 'hobby').

Ah ... an elegant and succinct turn of phrase. Oscar Wilde would have struggled to wrap up my feelings in a better way.

If GW want to abuse the law by being able to afford better lawyers than anyone else, and want to bind people to nonsensically controlling contracts, then keep away from them like they're a slimy pile of worm-ridden faeces.

Quote from: jimbibbly on October 06, 2013, 01:50:42 AM
There are many, many small companies, traders etc that would benefit from exposure from compaines such as BoW and not having any GW coverage will help that to happen.

Once more you have delicately prized open that nutshell and placed the truth lovingly inside. GW's releases are all over the net in a blink anyway, all BoW do is scoop people by a few hours. Get going to help raise the profile of some more deserving companies struggling to promote their wonderful sculpts.

Quote from: jimbibbly on October 06, 2013, 01:50:42 AM
Enough legal rubbish, I've got toys to play with  lol

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/8293_639304996103212_1353085214_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 06, 2013, 12:22:41 PM
Quote from: Cubs on October 06, 2013, 09:45:21 AM
Ah ... an elegant and succinct turn of phrase.

I never was of a literary nature  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 06, 2013, 12:48:52 PM
As far as GW and myself are concerned. I have a Night Goblin army boxed up for the future, which I probably wont use for a GW game, and I bought that aftermarket.  Even the paints I buy from them are fewer and fewer every year as I become more comfortable with other lines, particularly Vallejo.  So I treat GW like I did with unsavory political institutions, I voted with my feet and wallet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thebinmann on October 06, 2013, 12:56:56 PM
That's it I'm done with GW, finished no more products from them.

All I'm up for now is 1980s citadel on ebay!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on October 06, 2013, 01:49:02 PM
In the last three months I have come very close to getting back into Warhammer, and more recently, Warhammer 40k. The pricing of the new Dark Elf stuff alienated me from getting back into Warhammer, because I felt like I was being mocked by being asked for £35 for 10 plastic figures. I had just about reconciled myself to the fact that, hey, you buy it it's yours forever and you'll get hours of fun out of it... but was looking more towards doing some 40k stuff this time as I love the fluff and was in a bit of a sci-fi mood. Then I saw this whole BoW thing, and I can't honestly condone GW's current form by buying any of their stuff. They're like a dying beast lashing out in its death throes, with falling sales and utterly ridiculous price gouging to cover them, and plain cynical business practices... I don't know. Time to redirect all my hobby money to other companies exclusively.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on October 06, 2013, 02:50:27 PM
Dear Gods, do I ever feel a knee-jerk reaction coming on!  >:(
They (GW) are certainly doing their level best to alienatie as much support as they can... I wonder what they'll do once they achieve their apparent goal of becoming a company with only shareholders and without customers, without (independent) retailers, without anyone talking about them.  :-[
Or maybe they're just trying to kill off the wargames branch because it has worse ROI than their publishing house and whoring out their IP to make sup-par shovelware games?

Phew, managed to contain my knee to just a little twitch there...


This whole BoW thing has made it clear to me however: Looking at the way they are policing sites that potentially discus GW, they clearly see themselves as Fight Club.
Oh, well, mr. Bibbly has it right, time to return to my toys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on October 09, 2013, 01:08:06 AM
I have not heard of Beasts of War before but I have heard various tales of GW doing this kind of thing. Regarding price rises and so on, I have acceptable bounds of price/quality ratio and if i feel something falls outside it i wont buy, without need to make any public outcry. However, when it comes to this type of thing with the cease and desist letters it is healthy to have some kind of public discussion in my opinion.

Now I have no idea about the rights and wrongs of this particular case, but in that press release I found the following statement which resonates with me:

"... it seems completely alien to us ... not be able to report on the most dominant game and company in the industry."

Another notable thing is that they keep saying that they respect GW and want to keep covering them etc. Now it seems to me this is quite a swashbuckling line to take, despite the meek and mild language used to announce it. They are basically inviting GW to show themselves up as the aggressors.

It seems from all this business that GW is in a position to say to themselves that not all publicity is good publicity. Now, i know there is a certain element of luck in successful business, but presumably they didnt get where they are by shooting themselves in the foot. If they seem more focussed on controlling information than on giving gamers the best possible gaming experience it is because they have calculated it is in their best interests to do so. Likewise with concentrating on a younger market. Likewise with targeting new customers and neglecting older ones. Likewise with distancing themselves from stockists. And if they beleive that they dont need publicity from elsewhere it is because they judge that they have a monopoly and that their hedgemony is so strong that when it comes to publicity they have more to loose than to gain and that it is best policy to focus only on shepherding their customers. And if they judge that, there is at least a good chance that it really is so, because they are where they are by getting this kind of thing right, not by getting it wrong. If that is the case, then we may deduce that every time someone mentions GW in anything like the same breath as one of their competitors, GW is harmed by the publicity. Not all publicity is good publicity when you have achieved a certain level of dominance. This is clearly a big problem for the industry and suggests to me that the "ignore them and they will go away" line from people llike us here on this site will not succeed in making them go away. Of course we are quite within our rights to ignore them. They just wont go away.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 09, 2013, 01:29:06 AM
GW would make a good paper on how not to conduct yourself in the marketplace. Too big to fail?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on October 09, 2013, 02:03:46 AM
They may well fail at some point in the future. Most companies are not successful. There are a lot of unpredictable factors involved. So if a company is big, we might expect it to fail just on the basis of regression to the mean. This is something that Daniel Kahneman writes about in his book that i have on my shelf. He also argues that the perceived relationship between innovation or visionary leadership and business success is largely a bias generated by hindsight. And that initial business success is largely down to luck.

If that is the case then I guess the most effective way to stave off regression to the mean is to use power to try to change the rules or control the environment in order to preserve the status quo, rather than to continue to innovate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 09, 2013, 04:35:04 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on October 09, 2013, 02:03:46 AM
the most effective way to stave off regression to the mean is to use power to try to change the rules or control the environment in order to preserve the status quo, rather than to continue to innovate.

This is broadly true and usually happens once the company moves beyond its first-generation leadership. But sometimes not even that long.

The few exceptions tend to be companies where the founders really pushed a culture of accountability and/or innovation. Even that doesn't necessarily last forever.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 09, 2013, 09:30:53 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on October 09, 2013, 01:08:06 AM
And if they judge that, there is at least a good chance that it really is so, because they are where they are by getting this kind of thing right, not by getting it wrong.

I broadly agree with your assessment, but for me this part is the whole nub of the gist, as it were. Did GW get where they were by making the sort of decisions they now make? Or did they get where they are on the back of the innovation and inspiration of a generation of designers they have now got rid of?

It seems to me that when GW started to act like paranoid dictators, that's when their numbers started to dip and people starting to get a bad taste in their mouth. GW have been a big company for a long time now, but they didn't start to generate the sort of bad press they now get until the last few years.

GW will almost certainly survive and still be here in ten years, but only because they will see that a change in policy is needed. They may even be bought out and see the boardroom replaced, who knows.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 11, 2013, 08:53:07 AM
Just read this (http://bluetablepainting.com/new-hope-games-workshop/) blog post that suggests there are signs of some changes at GW.

The main one is that their head lawyer has departed/been fired. No idea whether that's good or bad news. Direct link to that story (http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/10/09/network-news-gw-fired/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 11, 2013, 09:33:03 AM
I hope this heralds the biggest change of attitude and policy since Darth Vader lobbed his employer down the pipe in 'Return of the Jedi'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Franz_Josef on October 11, 2013, 02:50:35 PM
Yes, but I'm sure they'll continue with the cricket bat swords!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on October 11, 2013, 06:59:59 PM
Probably won't see any massive changes to be fair. She'll just be replaced by someone extremely similar. I don't really care if they're going to be doing more interaction with fans and leaking tidbits about upcoming releases if the new releases continue to be super awful (Space Marine Termie-Tubbies) or quite nice but ridiculously overpriced (dark elf infantry boxes). Can't see the legal folks having much say on the design of the sculpts or the pricing.

Also slight change of track but I recently uprooted a bunch of early to mid-nineties white dwarfs and I've been really enjoying reading 2nd edition 40k battle reports again. Not to mention that they have all sorts of interesting articles in them about building terrain, scratch building sci-fi tanks from WW1-modern era model kits etc. Such a shame it's just an expensive advertisement for their products now, when it used to be a top quality magazine.

Oh well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on October 12, 2013, 03:05:02 AM
I suspect the seeds of these things were sown very early on. Certainly White Dwarf stopped advertising non-GW products nearly thirty years ago. It often happens that the real seeds of decadence are sown just when things are perceived to be in their glory days. I remember a religious pastor I knew once making this same point regarding churches. Could it be the case also with GW?

There was a nice article "Freedom in an owned world" originally published in Vector Magazine which used to be on the internet but has unfortunately disappeared. It was an interview with various authors who had worked on Warhammer novels and such, and offered a kind of skeptical view of GW in the late eighties early nineties. Many of those criticisms seem the same in essence to the ones that are made today. Most notable was an almost obsessive fervour about their intellectual property.

As to what was their original source of success, I dont know because it was probably a bit before my time. The Fighting Fantasy gamebooks were the only thing i can really identify as a real winning idea. But as far as I understand those were a seperate venture by Jackson and Livingstone with the publishers, not GW as such.
Warhammer ever since I became familiar with it was always something that owed some of its success to hype, the kind of hype that can only be generated by some established status. After all the rules did not quite work really. We were told in white Dwarf they were great and we saw these pics of great tense battles with beatiful minis. Meanwhile, when we tried to play them, often our minis looked awful and one side or other won easily due to rules imbalances.

As i mentioned above, I can see why a company resorts to stifling opposition and propaganda. Relying solely on generating new winning ideas is rather like hoping that lightning strikes twice. However, morally, it should not be so essential to be a massive success and make lots of money. Rather just to do what you love, take satisfaction out of genuinely giving something to customers and make enough to get by in reasonable comfort. I daresay that that mentality of giving something to the gamer continued to exist or coexist with the new one even after the logical foundation had been cut from under it, just by inertia. But eventially it seems to have died, and that is the situation we have now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 12, 2013, 03:18:24 AM
I think the days of free and helpful hobby content are dead. The new model of digital articles I found a bit shocking when I came across them. £2 for what should have been free
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 12, 2013, 04:34:41 AM
I think there's a boatload of free an helpful things here on the LAF, many of which are far better than any tips or tricks I ever saw in a copy of White Dwarf.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 12, 2013, 05:11:21 AM
Oh, don't get me wrong - I don't GW, any more ...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: gimzod on October 13, 2013, 04:50:01 PM
Well didn't think GW could get anymore insane but have you seen the prices on the sisters of battle?  :o

Anyone know a similar looking miniatures i've been looking for some for a game of in the emperors name.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 13, 2013, 06:36:23 PM
There are new Sisters of Battle?!

That's the only army my buddy would play and all he ever does is go an about how refuse to make new models and nerfed the Sister's rules so badly as to make them unplayable, all part of GW's No Girls Allowed ethos.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: gimzod on October 13, 2013, 06:44:39 PM
New codex and same miniatures I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on October 13, 2013, 07:04:10 PM
New "digital exclusive" codex.

Edit: nevermind this latter part.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on October 13, 2013, 07:11:32 PM
Well, I have no intention of spending any more money on any of the new codexes, etc., for my WH Armies.  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 13, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
Oh okay. That sounds more correct (you'll note that so far all the other updated Codex releases have come with new miniatures too). I think that new codex was a the subject of some bitch becuase it only makes the Sororitas worse to play.

Which seems funny to me. I mean in this day and age, female warriors are a big hit (thanks to one motivation or another) with nerds. Seems silly to spit on free money - especially if you're GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 13, 2013, 10:05:53 PM
Holy shit. $45 for a digital download. A new low for Games Workshop!   o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 14, 2013, 01:06:32 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on October 13, 2013, 10:02:13 PM
Oh okay. That sounds more correct (you'll note that so far all the other updated Codex releases have come with new miniatures too). I think that new codex was a the subject of some bitching because it only makes the Sororitas worse to play in the current environment (I don't personally know this for sure - it's just what the two people I know who play Sisters have told me).

Which seems funny to me. I mean in this day and age, female warriors are a big hit (thanks to one motivation or another) with nerds. Seems silly to spit on free money - especially if you're GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 14, 2013, 02:48:31 AM
Quote from: grant on October 13, 2013, 10:05:53 PM
Holy shit. $45 for a digital download. A new low for Games Workshop!   o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 14, 2013, 03:35:05 AM
What the heck?

Why did the last two posts get quoted/duplicated?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 14, 2013, 10:51:50 AM
Games workshop conspiracy if you ask me.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on October 14, 2013, 03:18:40 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on October 13, 2013, 06:36:23 PM
There are new Sisters of Battle?!

Those are the old figures at new prices.  Yes, that is a Retributor squad of five heavy weapon troops selling for £43:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat660016a&prodId=prod2270016a
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on October 14, 2013, 03:34:57 PM
Well, like a Finnish saying goes more or less, it's not stupid to ask [for a high price], but it's stupid to pay [a high price].
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on October 14, 2013, 04:19:17 PM
My old armies must be worth a fortune!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 14, 2013, 04:26:23 PM
Quote from: joroas on October 14, 2013, 04:19:17 PM
My old armies must be worth a fortune!!!!!!!

 lol

When I sold my GW stuff, I was getting obviously less than retail for new in box stuff, but it was still more than I paid - because of time! Thanks, GW! You make the secondary market worthwhile.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on October 14, 2013, 05:30:39 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on October 14, 2013, 03:18:40 PM
Those are the old figures at new prices.

That's one slick product update.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on October 14, 2013, 05:54:24 PM
£430 for an army half the size of mine!!!!!!  :o ...and they're not even new figures!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 14, 2013, 06:31:02 PM
Quote from: joroas on October 14, 2013, 05:54:24 PM
£430 for an army half the size of mine!!!!!!  :o ...and they're not even new figures!!!

Time to sell...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on October 15, 2013, 08:15:06 AM
Quote from: pocoloco on October 14, 2013, 03:34:57 PM
Well, like a Finnish saying goes more or less, it's not stupid to ask [for a high price], but it's stupid to pay [a high price].

+1

Its only insanity if people actually buy it.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on October 15, 2013, 09:39:50 AM
people will.
I have no doubt of that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on October 15, 2013, 11:18:01 AM
Quote from: grant on October 14, 2013, 06:31:02 PM
Time to sell...  lol

I bought a pile of LotR figures in metal a few years back, when eBayers were having trouble shifting them for £1.

Now... :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on October 15, 2013, 11:26:28 AM
Nearly £9 for a Heavy Weapons Sister is not nearly as outrageous as £18 for the new plastic SM commander......

How do kids, or even adults, afford this stuff any more?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: cheetor on October 15, 2013, 12:17:29 PM
Quote from: gimzod on October 13, 2013, 04:50:01 PM
Anyone know a similar looking miniatures i've been looking for some for a game of in the emperors name.

Mega Miniatures used to stock some "Shock Sisters" that look a lot like the Sororitas shown in the back of the Rogue Trader rulebook, but I dont know who they sold the moulds to recently.  Im sure that Johnny at Mega Miniatures will supply you with that info if you mail him.  The miniatures were originally part of the Demonblade line I think.
(http://www.nick101.f9.co.uk/Gallery/Miniatures/ShockSister.jpg)

Excalibur miniatures sell a few slender armoured, tooled up nuns like this:
(http://www.excalibur-miniatures.com/shop/images/product_images/popup_images/284_0.jpg?XTCsid=plcfpfpham89ksivofu65p41l1)

Eureka make some unarmoured nuns-with-guns (http://eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=204_207_220).

Foundry make a nice spec ops nun called Sister Wendy (IIRC).  Reaper make a couple of armed nuns.

I now return this thread to its usual format.  Howls of outrage may resume schedule in five, four, three...

Oh hang on, I almost forgot: has there been any news on the rumoured Inquisitor themed box set release (codenamed "Innocence"?).  I played Inquisitor themed games of 7TV all weekend and I am really hoping that the rumoured set materialises.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on October 15, 2013, 02:47:29 PM
If thats the quality choice of other space nuns, no wonder GW is raking the cash!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 15, 2013, 02:58:05 PM
Quote from: cheetor on October 15, 2013, 12:17:29 PM
I played Inquisitor themed games of 7TV all weekend and I am really hoping that the rumoured set materialises.

Any more info or piccies, sir?

It sounds interesting.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: cheetor on October 15, 2013, 03:16:42 PM
Quote from: Mason on October 15, 2013, 02:58:05 PM
Any more info or piccies, sir?

Absolutely :)

Loads of slightly wobbly snaps were taken that should give a good idea of the fun had (and it was good fun, lots of laughs).  Its going to take me a few days to get the photos presentable and write blog posts for them though.  I will post on here (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=54622.0) about it in a couple of days with a bit of luck. 

So my interest in the rumoured Inquisitor themed skirmish game is running high.  Its right up my street at the moment so I very much hope that it materialises.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on October 15, 2013, 04:12:46 PM
Quote
Oh hang on, I almost forgot: has there been any news on the rumoured Inquisitor themed box set release (codenamed "Innocence"?).  I played Inquisitor themed games of 7TV all weekend and I am really hoping that the rumoured set materialises.

I asked at GW recently, the local manager gave me that I have no knowledge spiel, which, TBH, was probably correct......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 15, 2013, 04:36:07 PM
Warhammer Online shutting down: http://www.warhammeronline.com/article/Warhammer-Notice-Shutdown

Supposedly the game was deeply flawed (built around PvP, but the factions were grossly imbalanced) so that's part of the reason. But also apparently they're going to replace it with an army-based MMO using the Total War engine, so as to have something closer to the tabletop experience (i.e. you command armies, rather than playing PvP).

Plus the 40k MMO is coming out soon and that one is solo/team play again, so I guess they wanted to differentiate their offerings.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on October 15, 2013, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: cheetor on October 15, 2013, 12:17:29 PM
Excalibur miniatures sell a few slender armoured, tooled up nuns like this:
(http://www.excalibur-miniatures.com/shop/images/product_images/popup_images/284_0.jpg?XTCsid=plcfpfpham89ksivofu65p41l1)

Eureka make some unarmoured nuns-with-guns (http://eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=204_207_220).



How did I not know about those? I will shamefully admit to being interested in the Sororitas codex. I already have all the models... a small fortune for sure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on October 15, 2013, 09:15:57 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on October 15, 2013, 02:47:29 PM
If thats the quality choice of other space nuns, no wonder GW is raking the cash!

 :D

Quote from: FramFramson on October 15, 2013, 04:36:07 PM
Warhammer Online shutting down: http://www.warhammeronline.com/article/Warhammer-Notice-Shutdown

Now that makes me feel old. Jumped in on the forums when it was announced as an RPG, joined a guild in anticipation, followed it through development hell for a few years; then it got turned into a PVP, goodies-vs-baddies, WOW clone and the bottom fell out. Never actually played it after all.  ;D
Armies sound interesting, if it's much like Dark Omens. What's Total War like?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 15, 2013, 09:43:54 PM
Quote from: cheetor on October 15, 2013, 03:16:42 PM
So my interest in the rumoured Inquisitor themed skirmish game is running high.  Its right up my street at the moment so I very much hope that it materialises.

Will it be like the other recent 'Specialist Games' releases that were only limited run boxed sets though  ???

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 15, 2013, 10:02:01 PM
Quote from: cheetor on October 15, 2013, 03:16:42 PM
Loads of slightly wobbly snaps were taken that should give a good idea of the fun had (and it was good fun, lots of laughs).  Its going to take me a few days to get the photos presentable and write blog posts for them though.  I will post on here (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=54622.0) about it in a couple of days with a bit of luck. 

I have been following your RT thread avidly since its inception, so I will certainly not miss it.
 :D

I have to admit that this Inquisitor thing has piqued my interest too.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on October 15, 2013, 10:29:06 PM
But, as Jim, says, whatever it is will almost certainly be an unsupported one-off like Space Hulk and Dread Fleet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 15, 2013, 11:00:36 PM
Quote from: joroas on October 15, 2013, 10:29:06 PM
But, as Jim, says, whatever it is will almost certainly be an unsupported one-off like Space Hulk and Dread Fleet.

To be honest, if there was enough to make it worth buying in the box, I don't see that as a problem.
Plenty of scope for everyone to make their own ideas work and expand it in whichever direction you wanted to.

Let us see what they produce.
If they do it...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on October 15, 2013, 11:18:54 PM
Well, if it is due out in November, as I heard, the story should unfold soon.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 16, 2013, 05:54:06 AM
Quote from: joroas on October 15, 2013, 11:18:54 PM
Well, if it is due out in November, as I heard, the story should unfold soon.....

Shit teaser videos inbound  ::) lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 16, 2013, 06:14:36 AM
Quote from: Vermis on October 15, 2013, 09:15:57 PM
:D

Now that makes me feel old. Jumped in on the forums when it was announced as an RPG, joined a guild in anticipation, followed it through development hell for a few years; then it got turned into a PVP, goodies-vs-baddies, WOW clone and the bottom fell out. Never actually played it after all.  ;D
Armies sound interesting, if it's much like Dark Omens. What's Total War like?

Total war is great. The battles can be quite on the epic size so think big battles. It's kind of like civilisation but you control the battles. Units gather experience, have moral and so on so it really would suit whfb quite well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 16, 2013, 08:47:00 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on October 16, 2013, 05:54:06 AM
Shit teaser videos inbound  ::) lol

 lol
Oh, yes!

.....but dont be posting them up anywhere, will you.
 ::)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on October 16, 2013, 08:51:19 AM
Quote from: joroas on October 15, 2013, 11:18:54 PM
Well, if it is due out in November, as I heard, the story should unfold soon.....

Latest word is that its a false rumour and not happening. Still half hoping its gonna turn up, but unlikely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 16, 2013, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: Mason on October 16, 2013, 08:47:00 AM
.....but dont be posting them up anywhere, will you.
 ::)



As if I could be bothered  ::)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: cheetor on October 16, 2013, 10:35:31 AM
Quote from: joroas on October 15, 2013, 04:12:46 PM
I asked at GW recently, the local manager gave me that I have no knowledge spiel, which, TBH, was probably correct......

Thats sounds like SOP alright.  In an era of Kickstarters were people essentially pre-order toy soldiers about a year in advance it seems like peculiar practice for GW to do the exact opposite.  Im sure they have their reasons [SHRUG].


Quote from: Mason on October 15, 2013, 11:00:36 PM
To be honest, if there was enough to make it worth buying in the box, I don't see that as a problem.
Plenty of scope for everyone to make their own ideas work and expand it in whichever direction you wanted to.

Thats how I feel about it too.  At worst an Inquisitor game is going to be a box full of cool plastic stuff that can be shoehorned into my other games.  GW boxes are still decent value and the quality of any new sets will surely be outstanding (Dreadfleet may have been a dodgy game but the plastics in it were beautiful.  Space Hulk was fantastic all round).

Honestly I would prefer if GW didnt support any potential release but that it was open ended enough to allow easy incorporation of existing 40K stuff.  Wishful thinking maybe, but one day GW might move back to the small game leading to the bigger purchase model that they used to get my cash from me for years.

I dont need another money pit, but a one off purchase of some choice plastics and hopefully scenery and/or objective marker type things would be perfect for me.

All the above assuming that its actually a real release of course :D

Quote from: Kitsune on October 16, 2013, 08:51:19 AM
Latest word is that its a false rumour and not happening. Still half hoping its gonna turn up, but unlikely.

Oh.  Balls :( 

Do you have a link by any chance Kitsune?

Quote from: jimbibbly on October 16, 2013, 05:54:06 AM
Shit teaser videos inbound  ::) lol

I gave up looking at any of those after that one for paint that simply had the number "150" fading in and out of view.  I had to watch it twice to double check that it had streamed properly and that I wasnt having some sort of seizure lol



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 16, 2013, 11:20:30 AM
I remember the first time the Inquisitor game came out, with its oversized figures. I think it was a really good idea as a concept, but the models were just too big. White Dwarf kept flogging the expired pony for a long time after everyone else had stopped talking about it I think.

I don't understand why they chose the scale they did (60mm wasn't it?), because it meant there was a limited range they could make, and each one was, of course, quite expensive. Maybe it was because being a skirmish game, GW knew they wouldn't sell many models so wanted to get plenty from them, or perhaps it was to stop people just using their old 40K models for it, or a bit of both.

I even remember when they brought out large scale plastic models back in ... let me think, '84? '85? It was their first dip of the toe into plastic models and they were pretty nice, although aimed at the younger gamer (they were really just toys). It didn't stop them turning up in our Warhammer games as giants (my brother still uses one ogre or troll as an enormous giant).

The big models just don't seem to be anywhere near as popular as 28mm, for whatever reason.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on October 16, 2013, 12:23:17 PM
GW boxed sets are usually excellent value for money, and the quality of the models in them is high.

As for the rumours, who knows?  I can see a lot of people WANTING such a beastie from GW (me included), and I can see other companies are picking up the "boxed skirmish game + extras" as both a sweet spot and GW's blind spot, but GW seem set on their own path these days.

If it works for them, fair enough, but I'm another one who only goes into their shops once every few months to pick up some paints (I love their new base colours).

Cheetor, add me as another one who'd love to hear about your 7TV Inquisitor games!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 16, 2013, 05:50:28 PM
Quote from: Cubs on October 16, 2013, 11:20:30 AM
I remember the first time the Inquisitor game came out, with its oversized figures. I think it was a really good idea as a concept, but the models were just too big. White Dwarf kept flogging the expired pony for a long time after everyone else had stopped talking about it I think.

I don't understand why they chose the scale they did (60mm wasn't it?), because it meant there was a limited range they could make, and each one was, of course, quite expensive. Maybe it was because being a skirmish game, GW knew they wouldn't sell many models so wanted to get plenty from them, or perhaps it was to stop people just using their old 40K models for it, or a bit of both.

I even remember when they brought out large scale plastic models back in ... let me think, '84? '85? It was their first dip of the toe into plastic models and they were pretty nice, although aimed at the younger gamer (they were really just toys). It didn't stop them turning up in our Warhammer games as giants (my brother still uses one ogre or troll as an enormous giant).

The big models just don't seem to be anywhere near as popular as 28mm, for whatever reason.

Probably because once models get beyond about 40mm, the amount of space you need to store terrain, figures etc. becomes enormous. It's also much harder to do large games. Yes, of course that's intentional/known, but plenty of people like the versatility of being able to use the same figures for both skirmish & mass battle games (as you yourself pointed out).

I honestly think that the reason 25mm-40mm is so popular is because it's the "sweet spot" in terms of size. Easy to do large and small scale battles and games, space required isn't TOO huge, and the figures are big enough to see and paint smaller details.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 16, 2013, 06:34:07 PM
Maybe they're doing a Foundry and in a couple of years everything will be alright again  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on October 16, 2013, 09:10:38 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on October 16, 2013, 06:34:07 PM
Maybe they're doing a Foundry and in a couple of years everything will be alright again  :D

cheers

James

Don't say things like that, man! A flying pig just flew by my window and almost crashed into our neighbours' house! And can you imagine what de-frosting the frozen hellscapes will cost, in this day and age with current energy prices?

;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on October 16, 2013, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: Cubs on October 16, 2013, 11:20:30 AM
The big models just don't seem to be anywhere near as popular as 28mm, for whatever reason.

I think the typical GW gamer is still someone who's bought a bunch of 28mm minis for WH**, gradually expands to tournament-legal, hopes to get them painted some day, and considers building a bit of terrain after that. Also, he's more likely to start another half-painted horde than actually get to the terrain-building phase. Within 28mm WH games, at least something you own may be reusable - that bag of trees and a generic ruin or whatever. However, starting another game in a new scale, incompatible with everything you own and pretty much requiring a set of elaborate terrain generally isn't an option. Especially when none of your friends are playing either and there are no tournaments.

And if you treat 54mm minis as 1/32 or something, your 4' table represents less than 40m of action space. I'd find it a bit silly to deploy minis with firearms on a field which can be crossed in less than ten seconds and everything is within a thrown javelin's range to start with. Why not just play a RPG if you're there for the plot rather than ten-second tennis court combat mechanics? At least it won't cost you £30 per player character.

I only remember hearing once about two guys playing Inquisitor, and they were using 28mm stuff. I'm not sure if I've ever actually seen a game of it. That's how popular it was in a country with zero official GW stores to hype it back then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 17, 2013, 09:03:31 AM
Quote
Those are the old figures at new prices.  Yes, that is a Retributor squad of five heavy weapon troops selling for £43:

There are a bunch of these sets available, all under the "new" banner - http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440161a

What I find most interesting is that they're still metal - they've not even tried to convert them to resin. I suspect this also means they will be online only, as I doubt any of the stores are allowed metal anymore  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on October 17, 2013, 09:21:34 AM
Quote from: cheetor on October 16, 2013, 10:35:31 AM

Oh.  Balls :( 

Do you have a link by any chance Kitsune?


No link, but the WD cover for November only has Dark Elves and WFB stuff mentioned.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on October 17, 2013, 02:49:10 PM
So, I have no will to buy yet another Codex or Army Books, and it is some years since I played with my toys, so.........  Where is there a good place to offload four GW armies plus all the assorted books and paraphernalia that go with them?  I can't ever see them being used again.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on October 17, 2013, 09:55:52 PM
Quote from: joroas on October 17, 2013, 02:49:10 PM
Where is there a good place to offload four GW armies plus all the assorted books and paraphernalia that go with them?  I can't ever see them being used again.  :'(

The Bazaar or eBay, I'd guess  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 01, 2013, 07:31:57 PM
Just to prove I try to remain even-handed at all times, a big thumbs-up to the GW paint-pot designs.

I bought two pots of the ... something weird-named earthshade, the new version of Devlan Mud ... in town and although I found the contents of the pot to be too thin for what I wanted, the design of the lid is a work of genius. The way the little tab engages when the lid is lifted and pushes it clear of the side of the pot at just the right angle ... I just love to see something that has been nicely engineered.

It went into my gloopy mess pot anyway, as part of my 'Shade Mix' potion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on November 03, 2013, 06:43:19 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 01, 2013, 07:31:57 PM
Just to prove I try to remain even-handed at all times, a big thumbs-up to the GW paint-pot designs.

I bought two pots of the ... something weird-named earthshade, the new version of Devlan Mud ... in town and although I found the contents of the pot to be too thin for what I wanted, the design of the lid is a work of genius. The way the little tab engages when the lid is lifted and pushes it clear of the side of the pot at just the right angle ... I just love to see something that has been nicely engineered.

It went into my gloopy mess pot anyway, as part of my 'Shade Mix' potion.

Well, they couldn't do any worse than the previous version that wouldn't stay open, could they, now? I have to use a matchstick to hold those open.

Taken into consideration that paint pot lids staying open after opening have very much been the standard for as long as I can remember, it hardly is worth giving GW credit for using some that does (too)...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 03, 2013, 08:07:33 PM
No, it's more than that - have a look at one. There's this little tab at the back and it engages with the lid when opened in such a way that it holds it, elongated spouted pointed right back into the belly of the pot, without closing or leaning back (thus preventing drooling of the paint around the rim or down the pot). Fair's fair, I reckon this is something the designer (whoever it may be) should be proud of, because it's such a simple thing and it manages to do what no pot lid has done before for me - ie, stay put exactly where I want it.

Not enough for me to buy the product inside though, because the Army Painter ink was better for me, but I believe in giving credit where it's due.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 18, 2013, 09:46:10 AM
Discussion on BolsLounge about the retirement of F***Cast linky (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?36951-Finecast-is-Dead) (reposted from a thread on WAMP)

Not sad to see it go. I have just ordered the new limited edition White Dwarf figure, and I am not confident about getting a useable figure first time.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on November 18, 2013, 11:18:53 AM
Quite interesting.

I seem to remember that back when FC was released (or unleashed, depending on your PoV) there were suspicions that this was a stopgap move before a total shift to injection plastics. Personally, I didn't have too many issues with it, but I only bought one or two figures made from the stuff.

I suspect they are trying to reduce their supply and manufacturing complexities to save on costs, not actually do their customers a favour.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on November 18, 2013, 11:27:19 AM
Well FoulCast turned out to be a short lived experiment,  wasn't it. I am not surprised. I figure there is only so many ways you can market a gold painted turn before the market actually catches up on that it is indeed just a turd. Plastic is a better option and I accept them those miniatures as compliments. I will stick to metals as long as they are around.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 18, 2013, 08:25:03 PM
I suspect a non-zero part of the calculation were the number of replacement requests they had for Finecast figures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 18, 2013, 08:46:50 PM
Be interesting to see everything they release in plastic though. Should be quite useful for bitz sorry, bits...

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on November 18, 2013, 08:52:59 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on November 18, 2013, 08:46:50 PM
Be interesting to see everything they release in plastic though. Should be quite useful for bitz sorry, bits...

cheers

James

I'm not as optimistic for that - if the "clamshell" aspect is true, then the figures will essentially be single-pose items, not multipart boxes (e.g. the Space Marine commander).

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if there might be a "command pack" for the Space Marines that contains parts for their respective character types (Captain, Chaplain, Librarian and Sergeants). I'd actually thought they'd do that for the current Codex as a reworking of the Command Squad box, or in conjunction with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 18, 2013, 08:54:56 PM
To be honest, I didn't read through the whole thing  lol

But I'll wait and see. I can't remember the last time I bought a 'fresh' GW figure. Over five years at least  :?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 18, 2013, 08:55:37 PM
I was only ever sent one Finecast model to paint by a customer. It's the only model I have ever returned to a customer unpainted. It was truly awful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on November 18, 2013, 09:52:04 PM
Is it weird that this is the best news involving GW that I've heard of in a long while?  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on November 19, 2013, 12:14:31 AM
I have little reason to care about the coming or going of finecast as it's not my problem, but I still think this pic manages to summarise a point oh-so-eloquently...

(http://www.the-guardians.org/nalfen/failcast.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 19, 2013, 12:20:11 AM
Such a shame that they had to charge so much for all of the super special R&D that went into Finecast, and now it all goes into the bin! :(

I never have, and never would buy that crap. Pocky brittle garbage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 19, 2013, 01:43:39 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on November 19, 2013, 12:20:11 AM
Such a shame that they had to charge so much for all of the super special R&D that went into Finecast, and now it all goes into the bin! :(


LOLWUT?  ??? ??? ???

What R&D? They took resin, and poured it into metal molds. Zero thought.

There was nothing wrong with Forgeworld's resin - implying they had a centre of knowledge next door. Would they get those guys to lead the way? Not a chance. Just reinvent a crooked, bubbly, warped and badly overpriced wheel.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 19, 2013, 02:01:48 AM
Quote from: grant on November 19, 2013, 01:43:39 AM
LOLWUT?  ??? ??? ???

What R&D? They took resin, and poured it into metal molds. Zero thought.

There was nothing wrong with Forgeworld's resin - implying they had a centre of knowledge next door. Would they get those guys to lead the way? Not a chance. Just reinvent a crooked, bubbly, warped and badly overpriced wheel.

Sarcasm Mate :O

But I do recall the sales when it first came out talking about how much research went into this wonderful new resin 'finecrap'...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 19, 2013, 02:33:59 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on November 19, 2013, 02:01:48 AM
Sarcasm Mate :O

But I do recall the sales when it first came out talking about how much research went into this wonderful new resin 'finecrap'...

Damn you, internet!  lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 19, 2013, 08:14:12 AM
I was under the impression that it was always a temporary move until everything could be done in plastic. I'm sure I read it somewhere  ???

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 19, 2013, 08:41:16 AM
Now that I know the prices of the new plastic clamshell (single pose) Space Marine Commander and Librarian, GW's switch from Finecast to all plastic doesn't seem like such good news anymore...  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on November 19, 2013, 10:32:47 AM
Quote from: Modhail on November 19, 2013, 08:41:16 AM
Now that I know the prices of the new plastic clamshell (single pose) Space Marine Commander and Librarian, GW's switch from Finecast to all plastic doesn't seem like such good news anymore...  :?

What, the prices didn't decrease? ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on November 19, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
That mono-pose commander is more expensive than the multi-part commander box set (which I think is still available). And there's tons of extra bits on the old ones sprue. Jump packs, cloaks, heads, weapons etc. Much better value if anyone is thinking of buying the new one.
Also just checked. £18 for mono-pose. £14 for multi-part kit.  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 19, 2013, 10:08:33 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on November 19, 2013, 12:14:31 AM
I have little reason to care about the coming or going of finecast as it's not my problem, but I still think this pic manages to summarise a point oh-so-eloquently...

*snip*

 lol

I'm like Scurv on the current Reaper bones topic: I have a couple of finecast minis and they seem fine. Flash not much worse than some plastic or metal minis I've seen. Minimum, barely noticeable bubbles. Mind you, I have seen and heard plenty of horror stories too; and I haven't had to buy scads of it for units and army-building, or set it out on a game table or a warm windowsill...

I'm another one under the impression it was a stopgap too. It came after a period of hearing smaller manufacturers complain about how the price of tin was skyrocketing, and it seemed they were slowly grinding towards all-plastic anyway. The cost of tin probably gave them a kick in the pants to hurry it along, and it looks like finecast gave them another one. :D

Quote from: Diakon on November 19, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
That mono-pose commander is more expensive than the multi-part commander box set (which I think is still available).
Also just checked. £18 for mono-pose. £14 for multi-part kit.  ???

Back when Epic was still a thing, a mate was checking out the price of a few things. He found out that if you wanted the sprues of strip bases, it was cheaper to buy a box of epic orks, keep the bases, and throw the orks away.

In other words, the way of the Games Workshop is like the coming of blood from the stone.

Bleedin' mystery.

Scurv: some of their new dark elf stuff (first all-plastic army! For fantasy anyway) isn't too bad... until you see the price tag, obviously.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 19, 2013, 10:44:47 PM
I have enough minis for a proper night goblin army.  It'll never get painted, but I have it in boxes under my desk.  I do have to say, I was thrilled to get the old Marauder Giant for $30.00 brand new in the box.  i remember looking at this in issues of Dragon when I was a kid.  That will be a nice addition for my soon-to-be Otherworld Skirmish game....

But GW, we're done with each other.  Yeah, I'll buy a pot paint on sale here and there, but no new minis.  The few times I go into my local GW shop, there's not much here in Amsterdam, they dont even hassle me to play their games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 21, 2013, 12:30:25 AM
Quote from: Scurv on November 19, 2013, 09:54:15 PM
have they actually put out any decent stuff recently? Last time I bothered to look it was those driller killer marine things.

The new Dark Elf cavalry box has some potential.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 21, 2013, 07:09:39 PM
They've priced me out really, and the design of their main games has gone a bit too cartoony/World of Warcrafty for me. Doesn't evoke the fluff at all. The big monsters are like something from a Saturday morning cartoon. In a bad way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 22, 2013, 03:19:52 AM
Ignoring the price of any GW stuff because we all know its ridiculous I quite like the look of the dark elves, not all of them but the medusa looks cool. I remember having the old one from the nightmare set. For some silly reason I chopped the hands off. Still have it knocking around though. Maybe it might be time to convert it with a bow and arrows.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 30, 2013, 07:46:34 PM
I've just picked up the skaven from Island of Blood, and 92 goblins from the Hobbit to use as skaven slaves.  Ebay, I know, but I got the lot (140 models) for £50.

The skaven models from the starter box are great - doubly so considering they're mostly two-part models.  Hardly any mouldlines, and tons of wonderful detail - there are rats scurrying all over the models, sitting on their heads and hiding under their robes.

The goblins are heartbreakingly lovely.  Nicely detailed, I actually felt sorry for the poor, deformed wee mites as I painted them up.  All single-piece minis, almost no mouldlines, 18 different poses.  They would be great for a tribe of post-apoc/sci-fi mutants, ghouls or cavern-dwellers.

Sad, because they're about the last thing I'd look at if I was buying high-fantasy goblins, and it ain't even GW's fault.

I also really like their new paints - the base colours are just fantastic, with great coverage and they're in a good range of bright colours.  Even the pot of drybrush paste I tried last week worked well.

'Course, we're looking to play another ruleset with the figures, because the Warhammer rulebook and army book for them would cost more than the figures...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 30, 2013, 07:50:48 PM
£15 for one figure  lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 30, 2013, 10:14:30 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on November 30, 2013, 07:46:34 PM
I've just picked up the skaven from Island of Blood, and 92 goblins from the Hobbit to use as skaven slaves.  Ebay, I know, but I got the lot (140 models) for £50.

The skaven models from the starter box are great - doubly so considering they're mostly two-part models.  Hardly any mouldlines, and tons of wonderful detail - there are rats scurrying all over the models, sitting on their heads and hiding under their robes.

Nice, aren't they? :) I'd get more meself, but I'm trying to scavenge some from the regular set, so's I can leave shields off for slaves. But nice idea with the Hobbit gobbos. I am looking for some mutated-looking slaves, too.

Quote
'Course, we're looking to play another ruleset with the figures, because the Warhammer rulebook and army book for them would cost more than the figures...

Maaaaayheeeeem... ;)

Quote from: jimbibbly
£15 for one figure  lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

Forty quid for a bunch of heads in little bits of barrels!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on December 01, 2013, 12:37:25 AM
Talking of expensive single miniatures... The other day I came across some nice Citade Mercenary Militia on ebay. Was wondering if it was worth bidding 3 quid each for them. In the end i saw that LAM is actually selling something quite similar with higher quality scupts so I didnt bother.
Checked back today and in fact two of the Militiamen had sold for 72 pounds each. The most overpriced minis I have ever seen. So it seems second hand GW stuff can be even more crazy prices than the new stuff.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 01, 2013, 12:57:10 AM
There wouldn't be a particular oldschool revival artificially inflating prices, would there...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on December 01, 2013, 01:21:48 AM
Apparently.

Personally I am all for oldschool revival in terms of WHFB early editions and such like. But when it comes to the minis, I would go for a mix and match approach. There are some great "old school" style models that can be found from various companies, which are still in production and often sell for 1 or 2 euros a mini. It helps keep those companies going, not overinflating the prices, and you can play old warhammer to your hearts content. Everyone is a winner.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 01, 2013, 03:15:23 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on December 01, 2013, 12:37:25 AM

Checked back today and in fact two of the Militiamen had sold for 72 pounds each. The most overpriced minis I have ever seen. So it seems second hand GW stuff can be even more crazy prices than the new stuff.

That is obscene!

I will be getting the Desolation book, I am a LOTR/Hobbit fan, but simply can't afford their minis anymore. On top of that, GW charges a 2:1 exchange rate for Canadian stuff. That's faaaaaar out of touch of real exchange. Sad.

A friend game me 24 Mordor Orcs today, I have a smallish army on the go. That lot would have cost me the same as an entire Bolt Action army!!! Luckily he got them cheaply on ebay.

GW has now relegated LOTR/The Hobbit to Specialist Games status, so it's near death. The lack of a starter box for Desolation is a sign of how dire things are. GW is actually pricing themselves to death. Shame they don't realize the solution is to offer better value again, not less choice by killing lines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 01, 2013, 11:40:08 AM
I should try selling some of my collection... I have Droves of 80's Citadel stuff still in original blisters.

I wonder what Goodwin wood elves would fetch...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 01, 2013, 11:55:43 AM
Quote from: grant on December 01, 2013, 03:15:23 AM
GW has now relegated LOTR/The Hobbit to Specialist Games status, so it's near death. The lack of a starter box for Desolation is a sign of how dire things are. GW is actually pricing themselves to death. Shame they don't realize the solution is to offer better value again, not less choice by killing lines.

Being charitable, I reckon the change to three films messed them around something awful.  The Battle of Five Armies would be my choice for a boxed game, and that was going to be this Christmas... then July 2014... now it's Christmas 2014.

So I imagine they had plans to do a Bo5A set this Christmas, then when it went to three films shifted it to next summer.  By the time the third movie was put back again, they probably didn't have enough time to do a dwarves vs spiders or elves vs orcs box for this Christmas.  Heck, an "Assault on Dol Guldur" set would have been fantastic :(

Agree about the pricing though.  I'd be interested in a box or two of hunter orcs, some warg riders and wargs, but that's £83 for 38 plastic figures :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 01, 2013, 12:14:18 PM
How about the original Bot5A boxed set they did, is that still for sale?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Donpimpom on December 01, 2013, 12:27:41 PM
Quote from: grant on December 01, 2013, 03:15:23 AM
GW has now relegated LOTR/The Hobbit to Specialist Games status, so it's near death. The lack of a starter box for Desolation is a sign of how dire things are.

where have you seen that? on the websites the Hobbit still has his own section out of the specialist games group.
IMHO the lack of box for Desolation it's a result of the awful sales of the first hobbit box, which probably had sale previsions at the level of the followers of the ring (just to make the final sales even worse)

I don't know in other countries but in Spain the sales of the Hobbit box where so bad that I have seen lots of retailers opening the boxes to sell them as bits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 01, 2013, 12:46:19 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on December 01, 2013, 12:14:18 PM
How about the original Bot5A boxed set they did, is that still for sale?


Doesn't look like it - it's not on their website.  Reckon they'll want to do one with the movie characters.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 01, 2013, 12:55:34 PM
So maybe it's a last, desperate attempt to make sales before they cut it completely and just rely on the two main selling ranges then?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 01, 2013, 01:22:31 PM
You know I'm in with all the rage at the prices these days, but partially I am kind of sad about all this as well. I used to drool at GW miniatures as a kid and dream about what I would by when I grew up. Now I am an adult...ish, I have given up GW altogether because of their prices. I look at the website and I see new released that I would have been enthusiastic about year ago and now all I do is shrug.
I kind of miss that excitement and wonder at new fluff and products.    :?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on December 01, 2013, 01:39:22 PM
Well I bought loads of the Rings stuff when it was a big seller, but I am mightily pleased that I steered clear of The Hobbit.  Their prices are now at officially outrageous levels.........  I don't even venture in to the local store anymore!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on December 01, 2013, 02:15:41 PM
YPU I agree. After a year of boycotting GW when I check back at their website to see their latest enormities just for old times sake, everything looks so disappointing.

Argonor, no idea what the elves would fetch. Based on my observations, these things dont seem to have much relation to quality. Some stuff sells for reasonable amounts and some is wildly inflated, depending on whats in vogue and what is deemed to be rare.

I have been boycoytting GW for a while. But on a personal note, it is slowly dawning on me that the ebay oop thing is also something I dont really want t participate in, because of the way it is set up to create a constant sense of bargains slipping through your fingers.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 01, 2013, 02:17:56 PM
YPU: IMO, that's where a lot of the rage comes from. GW know they're constantly pricing themselves past once-loyal players' cost and value thresholds, but they just don't care; even now, when their sales are dropping because of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 01, 2013, 06:38:25 PM
YPU, I understand the feeling all too well.  :(
I just can't get excited anymore, because, no matter how cool a new miniature looks, I know in advance it just never will be value for money anymore. The last thing that really killed it for me was the Adepta Sororitas and Inquisition codexes. They're two parts of the setting that I really like, but GW insists in only making them available in a format I neither can, nor want to, use. It's all just become so predictable and tiresome I can't even be bothered to get annoyed about it these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fastolfrus on December 01, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Quote from: Donpimpom on December 01, 2013, 12:27:41 PM
IMHO the lack of box for Desolation it's a result of the awful sales of the first hobbit box, which probably had sale previsions at the level of the followers of the ring

Given that the original "Limited edition" box is still available it makes you wonder just how limited it was.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 01, 2013, 07:02:30 PM
Quote from: fastolfrus on December 01, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Given that the original "Limited edition" box is still available it makes you wonder just how limited it was.

Actually those goblins make pretty nice muties for sci-fi or post-apoc and the platforms are good terrain fodder from what I hear so getting one of those at a deep discount might not even be a bad idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 01, 2013, 07:07:59 PM
Quote from: Modhail on December 01, 2013, 06:38:25 PM
It's all just become so predictable and tiresome I can't even be bothered to get annoyed about it these days.

I think that sums up the sheer ambivalence towards GW these days.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on December 01, 2013, 08:51:49 PM
Quote from: fastolfrus on December 01, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Given that the original "Limited edition" box is still available it makes you wonder just how limited it was.


Limited to the number of copies they can sell?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on December 02, 2013, 07:36:00 AM
Quote from: Scurv on December 02, 2013, 12:09:27 AM
If I was bonkers I would collect the really old ones where each warrior was a little work of art and individual.

Yeah when I first got into GW (92/93 ish) I loved Chaos Warriors and 40k Chaos Renegades. Especially the Champions. The new ones have no charm really. But  agree the previous, hunched ones were pretty cool too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 02, 2013, 08:13:05 AM
Quote from: Scurv on December 02, 2013, 12:09:27 AM
TBH the minis have lost a lot of charm as well mate.I personally think its when they started to get ultra realistic.
.......

This^

That sentence sums up GW for me.
When every figure that was produced had its own individual character.
Those were the 'golden years' of Citadel, for me at least.

Plastic box sets were good when they first came out, as you could build an ar,y fairly cheaply, if that was your thing, or stick to the 'character' models if you so chose.
Nowadays, 'cheap' is not a word that fits when discussing GW armies.
Sadly, 'characterful' is not either, at present.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 02, 2013, 10:05:10 AM
Yep, the 90s chaos stuff was great. Glad I got the lost and the damned book, the golden era of GW really.
Dwarfs in barrels  :? All I'm going to say.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on December 02, 2013, 01:15:13 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on December 01, 2013, 12:14:18 PM
How about the original Bot5A boxed set they did, is that still for sale?

cheers

James

I am in the market for one of those to. Looks like a fun, moderately sized game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 02, 2013, 01:28:47 PM
Quote from: Mason on December 02, 2013, 08:13:05 AM
This^

That sentence sums up GW for me.
When every figure that was produced had its own individual character.
Those were the 'golden years' of Citadel, for me at least.

Plastic box sets were good when they first came out, as you could build an ar,y fairly cheaply, if that was your thing, or stick to the 'character' models if you so chose.
Nowadays, 'cheap' is not a word that fits when discussing GW armies.
Sadly, 'characterful' is not either, at present.



But to be fair you're comparing apples to oranges.  When I think of the 'Golden Days of Games Workshop", I'm not even thinking 'Games Workshop' as much as 'Citadel' and 'Marauder'....  I think the former is quite different than the two latter companies.  

Years ago I remember watching an interview with Gene Rodenberry when he was discussing the development of TOS, he said that the executives insisted in watering down the show.  In their view, they wanted to reach the widest audience possible, and the nest way to do this was to make the program mediocre.  I'm suggesting that this is the general trend when marketing to larger audiences.

My lunchtime wanderings into the local GW shop, mind you the ONLY mini store of any kind in Amsterdam, are fewer and fewer....  There is just nothing inspirational there at all, which is sad because it was GW that REALLY got me into the hobby....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 02, 2013, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on December 02, 2013, 01:28:47 PM
But to be fair you're comparing apples to oranges.

Yep, and them oranges are ruddy expensive!
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 02, 2013, 02:34:35 PM
Quote from: Hammers on December 02, 2013, 01:15:13 PM
I am in the market for one of those to. Looks like a fun, moderately sized game.

Battle of the Five Armies was basically Warmaster, with a Hobbit theme. I have it, and all the metal blisters that came out for it, including Smaug. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Donpimpom on December 02, 2013, 02:43:26 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on December 02, 2013, 01:28:47 PM
But to be fair you're comparing apples to oranges.
100% Agree, despite GW keeps the same name there are two companies, the (lets call it) golden era GW, of boardgames aimed to old teens and young adult in the loop of wargames.
That company crashed, and was bought in the last instance to be reshaped as a toy maker for kids, the current GW, keeps the same name and brands, but it's a different company, different product, different customer target
The more time passes the less of the old GW remains, even the oldest employees has been fired in the last years.
Compare the modern GW with the old one is like comparing modern Disney with the company doing films in the 40s.
mm re-reading this maybe sounds a bit trollish, if so I'm sorry but i'm in my lunch break and I have no time to rewrite it :-)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 02, 2013, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: Donpimpom on December 02, 2013, 02:43:26 PM
mm re-reading this maybe sounds a bit trollish, if so I'm sorry but i'm in my lunch break and I have no time to rewrite it :-)

No worries, mate.

I happen to agree.
I am just one of those that remembers the 'good old days' of GW fondly..... :'(

It just rankles to see what they have become.*



*A bit like modern day football, but that is another topic entirely....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on December 02, 2013, 03:10:34 PM
Do you remember the Old White Dwarves that catered for a variety of games and RPGs, not just their own? Judge Dredd, Dr Who, Star Trek, Paranoia, D&D and Runequest to name a few, along with wide ranges of figures.  Now it is just a glossy advert for their latest toys in their three, shortly to be two, core, and only, games!

Sad, but in keeping with where their whole marketing strategy has gone.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 02, 2013, 03:33:52 PM
Quote from: grant on December 02, 2013, 02:34:35 PM
Battle of the Five Armies was basically Warmaster, with a Hobbit theme. I have it, and all the metal blisters that came out for it, including Smaug. :)

From what I hear warmaster is pretty good and instead of a wide point build system having two pretty much pre-made armies should allows the designers to have created interesting match-ups so, the questions stands. Is it any good?

I think a friend of mine has it, pretty sure he mentioned years ago he thought I should paint the minis as he couldn't really be bothered with that scale. actually was that set 6mm or 10mm? cant recall.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 02, 2013, 04:08:53 PM
10mm. Really good system; it has spawned Black Powder, Hail Caesar, and Pike & Shotte now too. Great fun, innovative command system. Oh, and the Blitzkrieg/Cold War Commander series too. So it's solid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on December 02, 2013, 04:10:16 PM
Quote from: YPU on December 02, 2013, 03:33:52 PM
From what I hear warmaster is pretty good and instead of a wide point build system having two pretty much pre-made armies should allows the designers to have created interesting match-ups so, the questions stands. Is it any good?

I think a friend of mine has it, pretty sure he mentioned years ago he thought I should paint the minis as he couldn't really be bothered with that scale. actually was that set 6mm or 10mm? cant recall.
Speaking as someone who rarely manages a game, and who hasn't played Warmaster in years, at least basing on memory it IS good, and emphasises the need for leaders spread across the army to control the troops, for example.
It's 10mm - the models are 10mm scale, but could be played with 6mm models.

Besides Warmaster and BoT5 there was also Warmaster Ancients, with historicals in mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 02, 2013, 04:55:40 PM
Completely forgot about the Ancients sets! My bad!  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on December 02, 2013, 05:11:49 PM
Quote from: grant on December 02, 2013, 04:55:40 PM
Completely forgot about the Ancients sets! My bad!  :'(
Well, I had no idea that Black Powder et al were derived, so I guess we built up the full picture.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 02, 2013, 05:13:42 PM
Well, that settles it, I am dragging him over with his boxed set if I have to.

I recall going looking for that set on the GW site last year or so and finding it gone. In my mind it was still that "new" game from them. I started feeling old then.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 03, 2013, 08:18:51 AM
Back in the day the art certainly inspired the sculptors. I think that is still the case today, but nowadays the artists seem to also have gotten the brief to have the art closely match the sculpts... Leading to a closed feedback loop and an increasingly uninspired idiosyncratic style. As well as a lot general turdpolishing to increase sales thrown on top of that.  :'(

Remember, these days Games Workshop no longer produces games for customers, they produce profit for shareholders, "customers" are merely a resource used in the manufacture of their main product "dividend". (Wow, cynicism, I actually do still care... a bit, I guess.... Nope, it's gone again... :?)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on December 03, 2013, 08:51:58 AM
I liked John Blanche's big battle scenes. And on the rare occasions they showed models painted by him, the style he used matched his artwork - or so I thought - right doen to the palette used.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 03, 2013, 12:24:31 PM
Quote from: Mason on December 02, 2013, 02:48:45 PM
No worries, mate.

I happen to agree.
I am just one of those that remembers the 'good old days' of GW fondly..... :'(


I think we all feel that way Mate :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on December 03, 2013, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on December 03, 2013, 12:24:31 PM
I think we all feel that way Mate :)

The White Dwarf battle report used to be bloody brilliant reads to bring to the shitter.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 03, 2013, 01:18:06 PM
BUT, and here's a BIG BUTT, many of the new games and minis with game with are by-products of the GW machine.  Disaffected GW staffers off to take their industry knowledge and begin their own gaming companies.  Often with better merchandise and games (Not that that's too hard).  So in a strange way, thank you GW for being such turds and motivating people away from your games into new directions.  I've said it quite often lately, with the demise of the Golden Days of GW has given birth to a whole new generation of games and game companies and well, it's never been better to be in this hobby!

That said, there are a handful of new games and game companies that have shamelessly tried to match the GW Model and have their initial offers in the form of overpriced components and half-baked games (Road/Kill anyone??) but thankfully Gamers are more savvy today as well, and those projects seem to die quick and well-deserved deaths....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Donpimpom on December 03, 2013, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: Hammers on December 03, 2013, 01:04:31 PM
The White Dwarf battle report used to be bloody brilliant reads to bring to the shitter.
agree, WDs and miniature catalogs by citadel or foundry are the best "Throne readings" ever... well maybe DIY catalogs too
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 03, 2013, 03:44:24 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on December 03, 2013, 08:51:58 AM
I liked John Blanche's big battle scenes. And on the rare occasions they showed models painted by him, the style he used matched his artwork - or so I thought - right doen to the palette used.

Ian Miller's art for GW (as seen above) defines Warhammer/40k for me. Angus McBride's covers for the old MERP RPG do the same for Middle-Earth.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on December 03, 2013, 03:46:10 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on December 03, 2013, 01:18:06 PM
and here's a BIG BUTT

Well, people tend to like them (or lie)...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 03, 2013, 03:47:32 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on December 03, 2013, 03:46:10 PM
Well, people tend to like them (or lie)...

Word is, the other brothers may deny.... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on December 03, 2013, 04:17:10 PM
I'm a Librarian and I prefer this version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuZSfvHHMr4
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 03, 2013, 05:51:19 PM
So apparently the new big 40K online multiplayer battle game is going to be made by the same folks who made Ride to Hell: Retribution.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/12/02/warhammer-40k-moba-storm-of-vengeance-announced/

This is interesting, because while I didn't play Ride to Hell: Retribution myself, it seems people I know - and the internet in general - have some, uh, salty things to say about that game and it's makers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA3vijm17Bs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo2k7nm-4nc

Given GW's current philosophy, I wonder if this was a case of the lowest bid winning.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 03, 2013, 06:33:50 PM
The hysterical laughter reminds me of 'Oh, ladder goat ... you're so random.'

(Have a peek on Youtube if you're confused) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggB33d0BLcY
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 09, 2013, 10:03:34 PM
Well, I have good news.  it seems, the more things change, the more they do indeed stay the same!

Earlier today, whilst enjoying the Letters column in this back-issue of White Dwarf (issue #70, from October 1985), I chanced upon this little gem of letter. Enjoy.

"Dear WD,

"Yes it's me again, and yes I have written to complain, again! It concerns this month's supposedly 'Giant Sized' edition [WD68]. On counting the pages that actually include articles and not ads, and by comparing them with last month's edition, I find that articles in WD this month have increased by. . . one whole page!

"I find this quite incredible when nine of the thirty-four pages of ads are advertising Games Workshop products and events. OK, so WD is still the best RPG mag, but if you increase advertising space as much over the next two years as you have over the last two, then in 1987 we are going to have eighty pages of ads and twenty of articles.

"You may not give a damn about the image of RPGs but some of us out here do, so buck your ideas up or you'll not only lose a few readers but lower the whole tone of RPGs to the level of the cretinous cartoon and plastic bendy toy image.

"Yours angrily,
Lee Mansfield, High Wycombe."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on December 09, 2013, 11:11:29 PM
Damn, I think Lee could sue them for nicking his idea!  Are ideas IP? :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 09, 2013, 11:44:42 PM
Holy crap, people hated WD even then!!!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 10, 2013, 07:21:38 AM
But was WD 80% ads in 1987?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 10, 2013, 08:47:17 AM
All I know is that it's been a 100% for at least the last half-decade or so...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mahwell skel on December 10, 2013, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on December 10, 2013, 07:21:38 AM
But was WD 80% ads in 1987?  ;)

Ah but only 20-40% GW ads depending if you count Citadel Minatures as GW... ;D

"yours angrily" Must have failed his CL test just after failing his WP test to buy the mag
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 10, 2013, 03:58:20 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on December 09, 2013, 10:03:34 PM
Well, I have good news.  it seems, the more things change, the more they do indeed stay the same!


Thanks for posting that, funny as hell. I love reading things with hindsight :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 10, 2013, 04:32:24 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on December 10, 2013, 03:58:20 PM
Thanks for posting that, funny as hell. I love reading things with hindsight :)

My pleasure to share it, I thought it was quite fitting given the conversation :)

As a historian I understand our habit to romanticize the past, and I would say 1985 is about square int he center of the Golden Era, and even then there were concerns over GW's business sense.  I also have tons of old Dragon mag's and VERY seldom did I read such letters....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on December 10, 2013, 04:53:25 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on December 03, 2013, 05:51:19 PM
So apparently the new big 40K online multiplayer battle game is going to be made by the same folks who made Ride to Hell: Retribution.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/12/02/warhammer-40k-moba-storm-of-vengeance-announced/

This is interesting, because while I didn't play Ride to Hell: Retribution myself, it seems people I know - and the internet in general - have some, uh, salty things to say about that game and it's makers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA3vijm17Bs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo2k7nm-4nc

Given GW's current philosophy, I wonder if this was a case of the lowest bid winning.


and GW complain about people who make compatible parts diluting their brand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 04, 2014, 12:12:12 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2340096a

The look and feel of their games has now definitely up and left me well behind.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 04, 2014, 01:50:41 PM
No one is doing as good a job diluting the GW brand as GW themselves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 04, 2014, 03:54:27 PM
Quote from: Gibby on January 04, 2014, 12:12:12 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod2340096a

The look and feel of their games has now definitely up and left me well behind.  lol

Its a massive gribbly thing with a huge distended maw full of bitey tentacles. Looks quite nice actually but the price is a bit ridiculous
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 04, 2014, 06:38:04 PM
I thought some new tyranid minis might actually get me interested in purchasing... Nothing great there though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 04, 2014, 08:13:36 PM
Took a look, not remotely interested, even ignoring the price.  Am I cured?  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 04, 2014, 08:15:45 PM
Quote from: joroas on January 04, 2014, 08:13:36 PM
Took a look, not remotely interested, even ignoring the price.  Am I cured?  8)

I think it's called remission. You're officially cured if you outlive the company ... or something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 04, 2014, 08:18:25 PM
Took a look at the 'nid.. shrugged and went back to painting Squats heh
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 04, 2014, 08:37:40 PM
My first wargaming army was tyranids, and I gotta admit I'm with general Frother opinion on this - tempted to dig all those unpainted termagants out of the bottom of The Box.

Not how I might've designed (http://modernsynthesist.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/art-of-warren-beattie.html) a haruspex (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NgeRJVjDmFc/Tci31r6SO1I/AAAAAAAAAI0/p665_xuOL0Y/s1600/Haruspex+concept_Warren_Beattie.jpg), tho.   ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 09, 2014, 01:38:58 PM
Just saw a post on WAMP saying that White Dwarf is about to change. Original source here (http://natfka.blogspot.fr/2014/01/the-monthly-white-dwarf-magazine-is-dead.html)

Basically, a weekly magzine called "White Dwarf Visions" and a new monthly magazine called "Warhammer Visions".

My subscription's about to expire, so I think I'll open a box of popcorn and watch this from the sidelines  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on January 09, 2014, 02:06:32 PM
 lol lol
"It's called White Dwarf Visions and it's true.
They will focus on talking about the hobby and community more so than being a sales magazine."

wow,they came to this conclusion all by themselves?
i wonder what they're charging for the new Monthly 230Pages strong,supa dupa "Vision"  >:D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 09, 2014, 02:17:32 PM
Quote
i wonder what they're charging for the new Monthly 230Pages strong,supa dupa "Vision"

The current bottom comment on the blog page is quoting 3.2 Euros ($4.30) for the weekly thing and 10 Euros ($15) for the monthly fix, although again, no idea if that's true.

I wouldn't mind so much if they discussed the hobby, but they only admit to the existence of the "Hobby", which gets tiresome :-[


edit to fix typo
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 09, 2014, 02:20:07 PM
So they have found a way for their fans to pay three times the current rate for their magazines.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 09, 2014, 02:54:19 PM
Will they still deliver it to the stores and subscribers a consistent 2 weeks late?

I find the whole rumour rather confusing... They apparently intend that the weekly White Dwarf Vision will focus less on sales and more on "the Hobby™©", but isn't GW's vision of the Hobby™© "Buy as much as you can"?
They also mention "community"... Do they mean the one the have been systematically ignoring and suppressing for decades now?

You do have to admire GW's dedication to trying to monetize absolutely everything though...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 10, 2014, 12:43:12 AM
As of this time tomorrow, I will only have one GW miniature, my silver demon winning Cave Troll. He just sits in my case. The rest of the miniatures, the books, the odd white dwarf? All gone. And good riddance, I say!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on January 10, 2014, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: Modhail on January 09, 2014, 02:54:19 PM

You do have to admire GW's dedication to trying to monetize absolutely everything though...

Priceless!  lol lol
i bought the Dark Vengeance Cultists 2nd Hand though my first GW "Miniatures" Purchase in Years.i keep buying their non 40K/FB Gameboxes,not to play with just for "the Archive" i have mint Copies of Necromunda,Space Marine,Gorkamorka,all the Figs still on Sprues etc

What still makes the GW Hobby unique imho is the feeling of collecting an entire Army,in most other Games the Feeling is more like a Bunch of independent Squads fighting together.No Matter how much you dislike the Sculpting Style,GW Armies on the Table always look impressive
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 10, 2014, 05:09:48 AM
Quote from: grant on January 10, 2014, 12:43:12 AM
silver demon winning Cave Troll

Ooh, Pics?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 10, 2014, 06:09:20 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on January 10, 2014, 05:09:48 AM
Ooh, Pics?

Toronto GD, 2006: http://demonwinner.free.fr/peintre.php?id_peintre=1233
Kind of a hobby high point.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 10, 2014, 06:58:12 AM
 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 15, 2014, 02:47:12 PM
well, it's official (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=12800022), White Dwarf is no more o_o

Not sure which of the new ones existing subscribers will get...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Johnno on January 15, 2014, 03:16:37 PM
A clever ploy to get you in the store once a week
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 15, 2014, 03:52:41 PM
A clever ploy to charge twice as much monthly for WD alone...

Well, actually I'm kind of intrigued to see, what kind of material they'll put on each mag. The current WD isn't particularly interesting even for occasional buying because 60% of it is dedicated to all-out pushing of the latest marine army that I don't (or won't) collect. However, in a weekly mag there could be a chance of spotting an odd hobby article that's worth shelling out 3e but not 8e (with 50 pages of marines around it) every now and then. I'll take a look, at least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 15, 2014, 03:56:09 PM
236 pages is a lot to fill every month........  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 15, 2014, 03:57:49 PM
Quote from: joroas on January 15, 2014, 03:56:09 PM
236 pages is a lot to fill every month........  :o

Especially if they have to produce a 'weekly' effort as well.
I guess they will think of something to fill those empty pages..... ::)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 15, 2014, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: Mason on January 15, 2014, 03:57:49 PM
I guess they will think of something to fill those empty pages..... ::)

Or maybe they won't? Have you seen the page layout after the previous relaunch?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 15, 2014, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: Mason on January 15, 2014, 03:57:49 PM
Especially if they have to produce a 'weekly' effort as well.
I guess they will think of something to fill those empty pages..... ::)



Adverts I imagine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 15, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
There have been a few instances of the magazine being more than worth the money when they showed projects, conversions, armies, games etc of the staff members and also occasionally the sweaty GW public (I say sweaty by the mug shots used of the people themselves).

If more of this thing is included then it might be worth getting again.

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 15, 2014, 07:38:32 PM
Quote from: joroas on January 15, 2014, 03:56:09 PM
236 pages is a lot to fill every month........  :o

My assumption is that a lot of that will be content from the weekly magazine. They have two markets, the regular gamer who gets the weekly book at a store and then the casual person who will see the monthly magazine at a newsstand or book store.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on January 15, 2014, 08:06:42 PM
"It’s unlike anything we’ve ever done before and this super high-quality visual feast weighs in at a whopping 236 pages, each and every month"

in other Words:every single Page worth 0.10£  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 15, 2014, 09:21:43 PM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on January 15, 2014, 08:06:42 PM
super high-quality visual feast
Such a shame. You see, I prefer to read magazines, you know, words and stuff...       I like words...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 15, 2014, 09:31:31 PM
Quote
"It’s unlike anything we’ve ever done before...

So worth the money?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on January 15, 2014, 09:41:03 PM
"It’s unlike anything we’ve ever done before"...

oh Bugger i've heard these Words before  lol


(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CgPsvprkytU/UoSl4aGszAI/AAAAAAAAAL8/eWOgt5f7K2w/s1600/n8e9x.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on January 15, 2014, 10:02:03 PM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on January 15, 2014, 09:41:03 PM
"It’s unlike anything we’ve ever done before"...

oh Bugger i've heard these Words before  lol


(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CgPsvprkytU/UoSl4aGszAI/AAAAAAAAAL8/eWOgt5f7K2w/s1600/n8e9x.jpg)


 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on January 16, 2014, 08:30:45 AM
Quote from: Dolmot on January 15, 2014, 03:52:41 PM
A clever ploy to charge twice as much monthly for WD alone...

Well, actually I'm kind of intrigued to see, what kind of material they'll put on each mag. The current WD isn't particularly interesting even for occasional buying because 60% of it is dedicated to all-out pushing of the latest marine army that I don't (or won't) collect. However, in a weekly mag there could be a chance of spotting an odd hobby article that's worth shelling out 3e but not 8e (with 50 pages of marines around it) every now and then. I'll take a look, at least.

I agree.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on January 16, 2014, 08:33:24 AM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on January 15, 2014, 08:06:42 PM
"It’s unlike anything we’ve ever done before"

"...and it really shows that we don't have the experience."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on January 16, 2014, 10:52:22 PM
Just found this news, GW revenue and profit have dropped seriously leading to a massive drop in their share value  ...

http://walladvantage2.blogspot.be/2014/01/chatter-behind-bike-sheds-profits-are.html
 (http://walladvantage2.blogspot.be/2014/01/chatter-behind-bike-sheds-profits-are.html)
http://troubleatthemill.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/games-workshop-end-of-year-half-yearly.html (http://troubleatthemill.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/games-workshop-end-of-year-half-yearly.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 16, 2014, 11:10:42 PM
Hmm. They had better get those prices raised, and then severely cut the variety of stuff they sell. I mean, they got rid of Specialist Games so that's those money troubles sorted... but... I dunno, maybe a few more resin Hobbits and Dwarves at £12 will bring in the needed revenue? I know they are doing everything they can to preserve the business, so it's weird that their sales have dropped. Frankly I don't think they brought out enough Space Marines, and those they did are WAY too cheap; barely cover production costs!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 17, 2014, 12:05:19 AM
Just read 6 pages worth of discussion over at Warseer, and TBH I feel a wee bit sorry for GW. It's like Lenny out of Of Mice And Men, just can't understand why all the fluffy little animals keep going limp and still.

I still like some of GW's stuff - their fluff, even if it is a 'borrowed' patchwork, and many minis. Wouldn't like to see those, or chunks of them, go down the pan.
Wouldn't mind seeing half the price tag do that, though. ;) No idea, as mentioned, if they'll ever get it into their heads to try it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 17, 2014, 12:13:58 AM
They're still in the black and the IP's worth loads, so don't go crying on their account just yet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on January 17, 2014, 12:30:36 AM
easy Boys,dropping Profits during a Company's reorganisation (closing down Stores,new WD,end of Failcast etc) is what?like absolutely normal?They'll be back,bigger than before,ready to take finally care of the Bitz/2nd Hand Market on Fleabay and all the 3rd Party Bloodsuckers  lol >:D >:D

i have very little Hopes for the Monthly supa dupa GWism Mag tbh.They're not going to show old skool oop Stuff or heavily converted Armies  :?
lots of Grimdark blah blah,silly Tech drawings on high Quality Paper,200 Shots of the same boring SM Army,Army Shots,close ups,Mass Battles,Apocalyptic Mass Battles,Apocalyptic Titanic pre Heresy Traitor Legion Mass Battle,the ususal GW nonsens  lol the G stands for Grotesque methinks  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 17, 2014, 12:43:12 AM
Well, like I said, there was six pages of the stuff and not all witless fanboy dribble. ;) Although...

Quote from: FramFramson on January 17, 2014, 12:13:58 AM
They're still in the red

And I'm the pessimistic one? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 17, 2014, 12:48:33 AM
Er, I meant black!  ;D

DURRRRRRR...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 17, 2014, 12:59:48 AM
Quote from: Gibby on January 16, 2014, 11:10:42 PM
I mean, they got rid of Specialist Games so that's those money troubles sorted...

Specialist Games made money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 17, 2014, 07:01:22 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 17, 2014, 12:59:48 AM
Specialist Games made money.

Indeed. My post was particularly sarcastic  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 17, 2014, 09:06:37 AM
The problem GW now have is that no-one trusts them. They have a much smaller customer base than they used to and none of the innovative hobby giants they used to rely on to come up with that next great idea. Their IP is not worth as much as it used to be either, after a succession of disappointing computer games.

They've flogged the family silver and alienated most of the people who migt have bought their products. They need really good ideas, but sadly have got rid of all the people who could have supplied them. They've always got an excuse as to why their lines keep going downwards - usually 'reorganisation'. A lot of companies go through extended periods of frantic 'reorganisation' before going under; it's just a standard response to a bad situation.

The Hobbit films were meant to be a blessed lifeline to keep them going, but it seems that isn't happening either.

I would like GW's value to dwindle to the point where someone who knows what they're doing can buy it out and run it properly. They need an entirely new business model because the one they have nuttured for the past couple of decades is all about short term gain and is now found wanting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 17, 2014, 09:34:21 AM
Part 8 (http://masterminis.blogspot.de/2014/01/the-future-of-games-days-games.html) o_o of Mastermini's dissection of GW's woes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 17, 2014, 10:44:03 AM
Agreed, Scurv, but, like you, I have not bought any of their figures for years.  How many good customers have they priced out?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 17, 2014, 11:00:15 AM
In GW's worldview? None. If price is an issue, you are not a good customer  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 17, 2014, 12:58:54 PM
I do the same with DVDs, £11 or £12 at first, but the price eventually rolls down to £3...........  :D

Granted, Australia is very expensive, as any Brit who has been there recently will agree, stuff doubles in price....  :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 17, 2014, 01:52:31 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 17, 2014, 12:44:24 PM
thus i may not be representative of the average minis person (or maybe that is what most of us are like after all who knows.)


We've all got our own way of doing things. 'Different Strokes' taught me that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 17, 2014, 02:24:58 PM
Quote from: joroas on January 17, 2014, 10:44:03 AM
Agreed, Scurv, but, like you, I have not bought any of their figures for years.  How many good customers have they priced out?

Me for certain. I actually like the current 40K rules (prior to all the ridiculous expansions) but the price of an army is ridiculous. I was actually entertaining the idea of doing a Necron force but I looked at the prices and shelved the idea immediately. The same with the WFB Dark Elves. $70 Cdn for a box of ten figures is just not going to happen. Especially when I can get a box of plastic Bolt Action figs for half the price with twice the number of minis.

I won't even bother to compare it to the price of playing Pulp games like IHMN
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 17, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
Beasts of War:
'January 17, 2014 in Featured, Warhammer 40K by warzan
So yesterday had an interesting development, in a sudden slide in the value of Games Workshop stock upon the announcement that they had a sizable drop in turnover and a hefty drop in profits.'

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/games-workshop-thinking/

I do not agree with the conclusions, but maintain the view that over-prizing has finally influenced sales (as it should, according to economics theory). If existing customers were still willing to pay higher and higher prizes, turnover should follow price rises at an almost 1:1 basis, and even if they were willing to spend the same amount (buying less minis), turnover should stay almost stable.

Even with fewer online retailers, there are sufficient sources for buying GW-stuff, so the whole online-retailer-dispute is not enough to explain such a drop in sales. Price simply exceeds perceived value of their goods, making more ppl think more than twice before investing their money in it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 17, 2014, 03:32:35 PM
I have sold off every book, mini, piece of terrain - I started in early 2nd edition, and had the collection to go with that time. It took me nearly three years just to sell all my stuff. Lord of the Rings was the last thing to go.

The Hobbit was just such a disaster. I used to play at a store that was the number one LOTR club in all of North America, as confirmed by GW itself. We had LOTR tournaments that rivalled the UK in size. War of the Ring (a blatant attempt to up-size LOTR) killed LOTR. The Hobbit could have revived that entry market, tied in with the films. Nope. A massive, insane price rise, followed by a predictable dearth of sales was what happened. So poor was the result that the latest film didn't get a boxed set - GW has even given up on the franchise.

I believe that the company is being prepared for the slaughter. Tom Kirby has his parachute on, and is waiting for the green light. Who cares what happens to the company? He is old enough that retirement is what's important. A massive buyout is just the thing for him. A slight downturn in stock price? Irrelevant when he is a restricted owner anyway. The sale of GW is what he needs to leave the company.

So long Games Workshop. I hope Hasbro, or whoever picks you up, is humane when they butcher you for the tenderest parts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 17, 2014, 03:36:36 PM
I only have my Dwarves left, outside the specialist games.  I cleared out much of my stuff in the last few months.  Like you I was tempted by The Hobbit, but recoiled in horror at the prices.........
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 17, 2014, 04:16:48 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 17, 2014, 12:44:24 PM
I can easily afford it I just cant justify it to myself. If all minis were that price I would just give up minis.

Ditto.

Quote
thus i may not be representative of the average minis person (or maybe that is what most of us are like after all who knows.)

I dunno. Your post made plenty of sense to me. And, I'd guess, plenty of others who 'contributed' to the drop in sales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 17, 2014, 04:21:21 PM
There are enough folk on this site who were GW buyers, and would still be now, if they had not sacrificed their loyalty to us, in order to attract the temporary and sporadic loyalty of successive waves of teenaged gamers.........
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on January 17, 2014, 05:10:19 PM
I agree with Scurv's rationale on the prices - I can afford the stuff, but feel cheated if I have to pay the price, especially given that so many competitors produce lower cost models. Since 40 K and fantasy are the most-played games here in Malta I followed the trend, and it was fun for several years, but in common with others (I guess) I have a burn out which started some years back. In my case there were 4 factors, besides the price escalation:
1) I used to be active on the Tactical Wargames forum, and loved Epic, my first wargame ever; when support for Epic:Armageddon (the last edition) stopped many there - including myself - were cheesed off, to put it mildly. The forum still thrives, ad produces fan support and brilliant models, but the lack of official support was a blow.
2) the ever-changing rules, and the rapid obsolescence of models. I am slow at completing projects due to my work, and usually by the time I have made some headway in a project the force I am modelling becomes invalid. I remember a pair of dreadnought conversions for my marines, my beloved Legio Fausta, which were both (in spite of having different weapon fits) obsolete a few weeks after completion.
3) White Dwarf. Bought my first copy during our honeymoon (!) and used to love the battle reports and most of everything. I am terrible at remembering names, but I remember the articles promoting large units of cheap points cost models over elite troops at a time when this was done because it made tactical sense, and not to sell more models; and the very funny chap who was not an employee of White Dwarf, but made a regular series of articles on gaming at his club - some of them were hilarious; and good old fat bloke as editor, that was a good run. But when it was dumbed down, with articles actually having less text and more glossies of standard models, and conversions started to disappear....
4) Has a lot to do with (3). I remember a particular article which actually disparaged creativity in converting models, and said something on the lines that there was no original art after Michelangelo, or something like that - the point being that their product is the ideal and should only be assembled and painted, with conversions being futile and undesirable. I was livid when I read it - even my wife remembers my reaction from so many years back, and if I had to pick a particular 'end' to my following of GW, that was it. Over the years I have still bought the occasional model, with the second hand ones outnumbering the new, but my new purchases have dwindled to zero now, which is sad, as I still like some of their models.

Sorry for the long moan....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 17, 2014, 06:35:56 PM
Quote from: joroas on January 17, 2014, 04:21:21 PM
There are enough folk on this site who were GW buyers, and would still be now, if they had not sacrificed their loyalty to us, in order to attract the temporary and sporadic loyalty of successive waves of teenaged gamers.........

Exactly. I keep wanting to get back into Warhammer (love the fluff of the Old World) but the prices and Finecast just stop me in my tracks every damn time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 17, 2014, 07:11:06 PM
Quote from: Gibby on January 17, 2014, 06:35:56 PM
Exactly. I keep wanting to get back into Warhammer (love the fluff of the Old World) but the prices and Finecast just stop me in my tracks every damn time.

Every time I have a retro-build-an-army moment, the $800 price tag makes me wonder how I ever did it; I have more disposable cash today than ever, and wouldn't blow $800 on an army. It's nuts! I can do a million better things with that kind of money, and still have money left over to put into my hobby in a different company's miniatures. No, I'm afraid GW have crested the hill and are on the slide down now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 17, 2014, 07:25:55 PM
Quote from: grant on January 17, 2014, 07:11:06 PM
Every time I have a retro-build-an-army moment, the $800 price tag makes me wonder how I ever did it;

I doubt that the army costs were as high in the past as they are now. GW price increases have outstripped inflation for over a decade.

You can see it in the number of people that only have one or two armies. When I was actively playing people had multiple armies and it just isn't economically feasible any more
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 17, 2014, 10:32:20 PM
Gotta love 6-beer philosophy.

I must admit, the fact that I gave up Warhammer around the same time I started getting laid seems like a terrible coincidence looking back.

Is it also a coincidence that I became a professional model painter around the same time I got married?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 17, 2014, 11:11:28 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 17, 2014, 07:25:55 PM
I doubt that the army costs were as high in the past as they are now. GW price increases have outstripped inflation for over a decade.

You can see it in the number of people that only have one or two armies. When I was actively playing people had multiple armies and it just isn't economically feasible any more

I think we talked about this the other day! You're exactly right: I had LOTS of armies back then. There wasn't even the thought of NOT starting a new army - it was which one, and what bits and stuff I would need. And then I did it! Today, it would just be one. That's all.

Sad? Maybe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: smokezombie on January 18, 2014, 02:44:21 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 17, 2014, 10:10:29 PM
had another thought about all this. Well I had a few but one is printable.

The Nerds (Geeks bite heads off chickens, you are not a geek fella.) have evolved and changed. They are at the top of the social heap now. Instead of being on the fringes of the entertainment culture they are driving it right now. Never has the competition for the nerd dollar been fiercer because what the nerds say is cool is taken up by the heard.

GW has not been included in this boom because its not fitting the new culture.

To expand slightly here is one example. Nerds have girlfriends now because they are seen as a socially desirable mate by the mainstream. I was on the PT the other day and there where was these 2 20 something girls and one of them had just been on a first date with a nerd. Long story short what struck me was she was instantly into the entire nerd culture thing and between her and her buddy had picked up enough from popular culture to already know how to do it. Date girl mentioned the fella had invited her to the aussie version of comicon and the other one says "oh you have to wear an outfit to those." (to which date girl replied yeah I am going as catwoman, which I can assure you she would of pulled off spectacularly)

Now that lucky fella is never going to spend his disposable on GW because its in a way anti girl. Girls have no place in GW land from its background to its aroma. Its unremittingly catering for that uber destructive nihilistic teen stage boys go through. The blowing up frogs segment of life if you will.

With the plethora of entertainment choices available he is going to pick things his girl will want to do too and he is not going to be short on choices.

To take it further would that guy even want to walk into a GW store with his girl. You have a stunner on your arm and you say he I dig games workshop minis lets go and get one. (being realistic with the pricing here  ;) ) You roll into the store and there is death metal thumping and 14 year old boys in their kill kill kill frenzies rolling buckets of dice and yelling blood for the blood god.... and then before she can start processing this there is a red shirt staring at her tits asking if he can help them.

Then she gets a whiff of the prices and its all over anyway cus sure as shit if you are going to waste money like that you are going to do it on her.

Take her comic shopping on the other hand and despite the same death metal there is no kill frenzy kids and the staff wait until she gets to the checkout before copping a sly one. On a more serious note there is also a huge range of product that is utterly accessible and desirable to her.

 

 

 

You have a way with words Scurv  :D

I love that post.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 18, 2014, 10:14:42 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 17, 2014, 11:19:21 PM
whats 6 beer philosophy. I like that word combo but need to know what it means so I can use it myself. (google was no help)


I made it up (my gift to the world). That sort of wonderful logical thinking that only comes around the happily drunk stage, after the debris of everyday thinking has been melted away, but before absolute brain paralysis sets in. It can often be accompanied by emphatic verbalisation (especially when no-one else is there) and a forceful jab of the drinking vessel.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 18, 2014, 12:20:13 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 17, 2014, 11:19:21 PM

I would hazard a guess something like super dungeon explore or rivet wars or some other 'cute' figure game would be far more popular with the female gaming demographic than 40k. Previous to those it was fantasy figs in general I suspect that had the predominant share of their spending dollar.



I can only speak in regards to my girlfriend in this instance but you are pretty spot on in regards to her.

I got into painting miniatures while I was with her and she got into them after painting a few of my models, she prefers something fantasy based over sci fi by a considerable amount. If we are talking about GW models she would take anything from WHFB over 40k. She does like the slanesh demons though which are technically both, tbh many of the models she likes tend to have some kind of cleavage on show.

You are also right that cutesy models like Super Dungeon Explore appeal to her, then again I quite like them too. Its not that she hates Sci Fi, we have been playing the Gears of War board game together. Its just she much prefers fantasy.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 18, 2014, 01:37:56 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 18, 2014, 11:23:15 AM
thats an excellent term. Put it in the urban dictionary.

Done!

Quote from: carlos13th on January 18, 2014, 12:20:13 PM
She does like the slanesh demons though which are technically both, tbh many of the models she likes tend to have some kind of cleavage on show.
 

It's odd that a lot of the images considered 'sexist' are actually favoured by the gender apparently being discriminated against.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 18, 2014, 01:44:29 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 18, 2014, 01:37:56 PM
It's odd that a lot of the images considered 'sexist' are actually favoured by the gender apparently being discriminated against.

Showing breasts isn't sexist. All women have them. What the model is posed doing and how it is dressed can be sexist though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 18, 2014, 02:02:29 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 17, 2014, 10:10:29 PM
To take it further would that guy even want to walk into a GW store with his girl. You have a stunner on your arm and you say he I dig games workshop minis lets go and get one. (being realistic with the pricing here  ;) ) You roll into the store and there is death metal thumping and 14 year old boys in their kill kill kill frenzies rolling buckets of dice and yelling blood for the blood god.... and then before she can start processing this there is a red shirt staring at her tits asking if he can help them.

I took an extremely blonde and buxom girlfriend to the Partizan show about 8-9 years ago.  I think a couple of guys actually exploded...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 18, 2014, 02:56:47 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 18, 2014, 02:23:06 PM
I agree. I think the elmore art in the red book D&D of women is hot but not girly mag style. (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Mox0FY6pVIE/UGj69x9CG-I/AAAAAAAAAos/hM0yZhUePvA/s1600/Aleena%2Bby%2BLarry%2BElmore.jpg)

She is also fully armoured. Something that a lot of modern fantasy art fails to do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 18, 2014, 03:25:25 PM
Farrah hair ... always gets the job done.

My brother once had a female fighter character in D&D. Her name was Brunhild and she was big, strong and ugly. He had a lot of trouble finding a figure for her ... I think he found one in the Citadel female fighters in the end, but had to wade through dozens of metal-bikini bints who apparently felt the best protection was a couple of hubcaps and a chainmal thong.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 18, 2014, 03:28:18 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 18, 2014, 03:25:25 PM
Farrah hair ... always gets the job done.

My brother once had a female fighter character in D&D. Her name was Brunhild and she was big, strong and ugly. He had a lot of trouble finding a figure for her ... I think he found one in the Citadel female fighters in the end, but had to wade through dozens of metal-bikini bints who apparently felt the best protection was a couple of hubcaps and a chainmal thong.

It's a good thing most dungeons aren't underground, cold, and clammy. Apparently they are all sun-filled, sandy beaches with walls.  lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 18, 2014, 05:22:19 PM
It'll be interesting to see what games see better numbers as a reult of more women being introduced to the hobby. My buddy once said that for percentages of women playing, the hierarchy was something like RPGs >>> Nerdly Card Games (like Magic, etc.) >>> Tabletop wargames, and in my limited experince I'd say his assessment is right.

It's certainly not impossible for women to get into wargaming, without even going for the cute angle. The missus is actually interested in trying out Pulp Alley and is getting me to do up a league specifically for her.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 18, 2014, 05:30:32 PM
My wife DESPISES my hobby. I got her to play two games, in our entire 20something years together: one game of that bean farming card game (she won, handily), and a game of Wings of War (she won, handily).

Wait ... maybe she doesn't hate my hobby, she just isn't challenged by it ...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 18, 2014, 05:41:10 PM
My wife has no understanding.  One game of Judge Dredd in 33 years and she WON! Oh! and she watched Star Trek IV, Indiana Jones II and the first quarter of LOTR I.  I think that is the limit of her wargaming viewing!  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 18, 2014, 07:03:52 PM
In my experience when women get into the hobby genre, they tend to be very good at it. Look at our own Helen and her Japanese army - they are just superb.

But there's certainly not enough of them, that's fer shewer.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 18, 2014, 07:13:45 PM
My Wife actually games and paints her own toys (Currently this is Nurgle and Slaaneshi Demons) But she doesn't care much for the fluff. Were as I love the old classic one peice metals, she prefers the new mutli part plastics.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 18, 2014, 07:16:12 PM
Chico, you need to change the spelling of Oldhammer to Öldhammer.

And if you haven't the faintest idea what I'm talking about, try googling the new acronym  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 18, 2014, 07:18:25 PM
My wife doesn't understand why I paint little pieces of metal shaped into toys. She watches movies like lotr and enjoys them and likes the different sorts of card games but minis are too much of a stretch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 18, 2014, 07:29:37 PM
Quote from: Argonor on January 18, 2014, 07:16:12 PM
Chico, you need to change the spelling of Oldhammer to Öldhammer.

And if you haven't the faintest idea what I'm talking about, try googling the new acronym  lol

Hahaha love it :) Mulled Wine eh? Going to have to make some for the next meet up :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 18, 2014, 10:04:36 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 18, 2014, 09:47:29 PM
and is not engaged by the subject matter or is purpose I suspect.

Most of my GF's have liked the artistic aspect of the painting and thats as far as it goes. TBH thats always been fine with me. lots of them have had hobbies I dont get either.

If they did have a go it was just being polite, sort of like when we go to their pals places and feign surprise and delight that a: they figured out how to breed and b: it resulted in a little homunculus that smells bad most of the time and makes too many annoying noises.




 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 18, 2014, 10:17:01 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 18, 2014, 09:47:29 PM
and is not engaged by the subject matter or is purpose I suspect.

Most of my GF's have liked the artistic aspect of the painting and thats as far as it goes. TBH thats always been fine with me. lots of them have had hobbies I dont get either.

If they did have a go it was just being polite, sort of like when we go to their pals places and feign surprise and delight that a: they figured out how to breed and b: it resulted in a little homunculus that smells bad most of the time and makes too many annoying noises.



There is a lot to be said for a partner at least trying something they have no interest in though. At the very least they are open minded enough to give it a go.

Also when people say "Aww your baby is so cute" when you are actually thinking. Thats an ugly little thing staring at me. You cant go round someones house and tell them their baby looks funny.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 18, 2014, 11:16:13 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 18, 2014, 10:58:17 PM
I always screw it up and refer to the baby as an it. How old is it? that sort of thing. TBH its my least liked social engagement....

Gotta agree with you there.
A baby is a baby to me.

I just cant see what the fuss is all about.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 19, 2014, 12:12:19 AM
Part of it may be that the industry makes little effort to court them as customers. Women in war games are almost always to be looked at first and foremost.

It seems many developers don't even see women as a potential customers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 19, 2014, 01:21:58 AM
Quote from: Mason on January 18, 2014, 11:16:13 PM
Gotta agree with you there.
A baby is a baby to me.

I just cant see what the fuss is all about.....

Kinds of on this topic, but a little sidetracked whenever I'm talking to a woman that is quite obviously pregnant I won't ask questions about when it's due, just in case she's just having a fat day (year/life?). She would have to screaming in a hospital pushing it out before I would ask that question... At which point it's both irrelevant, annoying and weird.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on January 19, 2014, 08:05:21 AM
As illuminating as this discourse is, may I remind everyone that this is the GW thread. Please try to get back on topic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 19, 2014, 12:03:18 PM
This must be the first time in this forum's eight year history when the moderators ask for more GW discussion. :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on January 19, 2014, 01:55:04 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on January 19, 2014, 12:03:18 PM
This must be the first time in this forum's eight year history when the moderators ask for more GW discussion. :o

This is the GW Discussion thread, after all. As important as it is to get the better halves aquainted with and interested in the hobby, the discussion is straying off topic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on January 19, 2014, 02:00:30 PM
I wish there could be more GW discussion here.Unfortunatly threads like this turn into a antiGW/I hate GW/your a putz if u like GW bitchfest.
Even sticking it here by its own has drawn them like moths to flame.There are,I think, quite a few who play or still use GW on this forum but I think they stay away from  GW discussion because of a very vocal (I wont say minority because they may be majority).
It reminds me of when I was a early teen and had to hide my historical figures from my classmates because of embarrassment or ridicule.
Sad really.
Carry on  
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 19, 2014, 03:16:14 PM
Quote from: fitterpete on January 19, 2014, 02:00:30 PM
I wish there could be more GW discussion here.Unfortunatly threads like this turn into a antiGW/I hate GW/your a putz if u like GW bitchfest.

Can't speak for anyone else here, but I'd be surprised if I'm the only one whose GW antagonism in born out of frustration. A kind of a sense of betrayal, if that doesn't sound too sad. I know I'd still be buying GW minis by the shovelful if they were priced halfway decently. (recently my biggest GW spend has been occassionally picking Seb Perbett's excellent skaven off ebay for cheap) Like I said, I've been following some interesting discussions on Warseer's GW General Discussion board since the half-year results and stock drop were announced, and they're chock full of people who still like GW's minis and imagery, but can't justify the prices, the rules, and/or the business's practises. Again, like I said, it's a view held by some very level-headed and business-savvy people, as well as... people who aren't.

Quote
Even sticking it here by its own has drawn them like moths to flame.

Jings. I've been hanging around for ages, waiting for this thread to show some activity.

Quote
There are,I think, quite a few who play or still use GW on this forum but I think they stay away from  GW discussion because of a very vocal (I wont say minority because they may be majority).

Well, not to bang on about Warseer, but I see this thread as LAF's version of their GW General Discussion board: the people still into the nitty-gritty of the minis and games discuss releases, rules, and their own armies elsewhere. The unimpressed and disillusioned, people looking in from the outside (or in the process of being pushed out) tend to look at and discuss GW as a whole rather than small, specific matters in a single game. Inevitably they look at the general problems and faults of GW as a whole, that keep them on the outside. :) (Judging by your response, it means this thread's gaining the same reputation as Warseer's GW General, too. ;) )

If there's a dearth of other GW-related topics in Future Wars, Fantasy Adventures, etc. here, I'd guess a major factor is that 'elsewhere' is not another board or cluster of boards on this forum, but several different, whole forums dedicated to GW. Even some dedicated to individual GW races, let alone games! You'll probably get some discussion, inspiration and admiration for your space orks here, but you'll probably get a lot more somewhere like Da Waaagh.
On that note: from what I've seen, people still into the nitty-gritty of GW's minis and especially the games, tend to be very uninterested in the rest of the wargaming world. (The number of GW fans I've seen become furious in insisting that they're GW hobbyists, rather than wargamers!) Not so much that the LAF doesn't cater to them, IMO, as they couldn't care less about most of the stuff posted here.

(Me, I love the LAF. Other forums dedicated to specific games or genres are alright, but I only know three general gaming forums: this, Frothers, and TMP. Both with plenty of news but also plenty of idiocy, and I only go near Frothers anyway. Dunno what I'd do without this place!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 19, 2014, 03:46:08 PM
Quote from: fitterpete on January 19, 2014, 02:00:30 PM
I wish there could be more GW discussion here.Unfortunatly threads like this turn into a antiGW/I hate GW/your a putz if u like GW bitchfest.
Even sticking it here by its own has drawn them like moths to flame.There are,I think, quite a few who play or still use GW on this forum but I think they stay away from  GW discussion because of a very vocal (I wont say minority because they may be majority).
It reminds me of when I was a early teen and had to hide my historical figures from my classmates because of embarrassment or ridicule.
Sad really.
Carry on  

I like GW's fluff and a lot of their models. I come to this thread to have a grumble about the way things are with GW in general as my negativity is generated by their business practices. I would utterly LOVE to be able to be really into Warhammer fantasy again, but for various reasons I am kept away by the way things are with the company right now. It's good to get the frustration out in the open. I definitely don't have a negative view of those whose personal line has yet to be crossed by the prices/quality or whatever. I don't think anyone here thinks that way, and indeed as Vermis says, a lot of the anti-GW talk is born of frustration as many of us were once keen GW-buyers/gamers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 19, 2014, 04:47:58 PM
I fell in love with Citadel.

Games Workshop doesn't interest me nearly as much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 19, 2014, 07:32:45 PM
Quote from: Mason on January 18, 2014, 11:16:13 PM
Gotta agree with you there.
A baby is a baby to me.

I just cant see what the fuss is all about.....


Wait till you hold yours for the first time! Nothing is ever the same after that.

In fairness to GW I think a lot of their unpopular policies were good business sense. It's hard to make money off people who have already bought their armies and can then keep them for thirty years, playing against their mates every weekend. The odd brush and pot of paint from customers won't keep even a medium sized business afloat.

So, new models needed to be continually released and this meant that eventually the ranges needed to be completely overhauled. After all, the Warhammer and 40K universes are bound by self-defining limits an historical manufacturer isn't. In order to make sure that people didn't just stick with their old figures, GW then had to find a way to invalidate them - thus the rules and army books were continually overhauled.

Had they kept investing in the hobby clubs the way they used to, perhaps they could have kept this routine up indefinitely, by enforcing 'official' rules and controlling people's buying habits. As soon as they went down the route of maximising profit from a shrinking customer base, they set in motion a policy that by definition must eventually kill the business. Accountants always cut loss-making sides of a business first, even if it represents an important investment.

They need a new business model, that's all, and one that is sustainable this time. It's not too late, but the longer they leave it, the more it's going to hurt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 19, 2014, 11:28:41 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 19, 2014, 07:32:45 PM
It's hard to make money off people who have already bought their armies and can then keep them for thirty years, playing against their mates every weekend.

There are a couple of things wrong with that statement. And one of them's addressed by the first line in your post. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 20, 2014, 12:54:54 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 19, 2014, 11:44:41 PM
I need funny stuff in my game universe these days.

Amen to that!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 20, 2014, 03:23:11 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 20, 2014, 01:27:58 AM
Those early orc books ere we go and freebooterz and the other one were fantastic for dark humour.

Paul Bonner's artwork was very good for that sort of thing.

Regarding prices, I picked up some Plastic Miniature Company 28mm Russians today and got 56 infantry, two AT guns and eight support weapons for the same prices as one of the more expensive 40K or WFB plastic sets. So 70 minis and some guns for the price of 10 Dark Elf Witches.

Now the figures are nowhere as detailed as a GW kit but I bought all the troops I will probably need for a skirmish level game for what some poor schmuck pays for the *start* of a unit of WFB models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 20, 2014, 03:39:57 AM
I posted some commentary about the current profit/sales issues at GW on my blog

http://zac.calgarygamers.net/whatever/the-gw-death-spiral

Be interested in any comments people have
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 20, 2014, 04:41:51 AM
Lotr was what got me into miniatures. The magazine they did was quite honestly one of the best things they ever did for getting new people into the hobby.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 20, 2014, 05:00:02 AM
Quote from: carlos13th on January 20, 2014, 04:41:51 AM
The magazine they did was quite honestly one of the best things they ever did for getting new people into the hobby.

I don't think GW did that magazine did they?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 20, 2014, 05:30:25 AM
Maybe not but it was certainly in partnership with GW, it was their models. It got people into GW stores.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 20, 2014, 08:44:44 AM
I think I purchases the mines of Moria kit off the back of the mags.

Now I would probably only pick up character models.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 20, 2014, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 20, 2014, 05:00:02 AM
I don't think GW did that magazine did they?

What was the name of the mag?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 20, 2014, 10:46:22 AM
I want to say battlegames/wargames in middle earth or something like that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 20, 2014, 10:46:51 AM
Battle Games in Middle-Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Games_in_Middle-earth), wuzzit?

I probably would've got it, and the boxed LotR minis, myself; but I disliked 'Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings' so much, by the time I came round, the Great LotR Price Hike had begun.

Still have a single boxworth of primed rohirrim lying about here somewhere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 20, 2014, 11:22:13 AM
I would still be collecting LotR/Hobbit minis, if the price tag was not totally beyond what I'm willing to pay for miniatures.

I'm not a hater (allthough I do admit that I find their two main rulesets completely outdated and rather tedious/slow to play), just a disgruntled former customer.

I have a great many Citadel (and Marauder) miniatures, and I do not intend to sell them off, I'm just using them for other rules - and do not buy any new ones (If I buy, I do so second hand).

I think the real problem might be the other way around: Some people can't fathom that other ppl can have something negative to say about GW, as it is still the main focus of their wargaming activities (and/or they have invested so much money/time that they are in total denial of any other ways than the GW way), and it is probably a bit unnerving for them to experience that actuallly so many have opinions not coresponding with their perception of the world.

As has already been pointed out, there's nothing to stop those individuals from discussing rules, army compositions, whatever in the relevant sections of the forum, but don't open this thread expecting praise for a company that has pissed so many ppl off with its business practices..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 20, 2014, 11:26:03 AM
Yes, I bought loads (and still have most) of the LOTR and Battlegames.  Went to buy The Hobbit figures too, but the price stopped me in my tracks and, like a lot of us, walked away from being a purchaser.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on January 20, 2014, 11:34:49 AM
I actually went back and read Chris's intro to this thread.My mistake.
I thought everything about GW but pics of figures and AARs was supposed to be on this thread. I didn't realize rules and army list etc could go on the other areas.
Again my mistake.This really is supposed  to be the GW bitch thread ;)
carry on
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 20, 2014, 11:46:26 AM
Bitch Thread?  :o
I'm not sure.

This has more to do with people who used to love GW but are so fed up of GW's awful attitude towards them that they have turned against it, like a spurned lover.  If your attitude to your purchasers is "New Customers only" then the old customers will go elsewhere, this is not a great business model........ and the cracks have been showing for a while.  Stand well back when the dam bursts..... It will be a sad day for the wargames world.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 20, 2014, 12:02:57 PM
Quote from: joroas on January 20, 2014, 11:46:26 AM
Stand well back when the dam bursts..... It will be a sad day for the wargames world.  :'(

If it bursts, I'm pretty sure the franchise will be picked up by others. If the current pricing policy is continued, I fear it must happen, eventually. The prices are well beyond anything that would be perceived as the 'equilibrium price', even for a monopoly, as I see it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 20, 2014, 12:38:44 PM
Quote from: Argonor on January 20, 2014, 11:22:13 AM
(and/or they have invested so much money/time that they are in total denial of any other ways than the GW way)

The sunk cost fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy). I've seen it posted, more than once, that "I keep buying GW minis and playing their rules because I've spent too much to stop".

Closely followed by "I keep buying GW minis and playing their rules because I like the fluff".

Quote from: fitterpete on January 20, 2014, 11:34:49 AM
Again my mistake.This really is supposed  to be the GW bitch thread ;)

Like I say, when you've been pushed away enough to take more of a bird's eye view of GW*, you don't usually see all that much to be positive about.

*As in, broader than the focus I've seen on the fact that hormagaunts in the new tyranid codex cost a whole point less.

I assume it's pretty much like the view of the shareholders right now, though from a different direction. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 20, 2014, 12:55:28 PM
Quote from: fitterpete on January 20, 2014, 11:34:49 AM
I actually went back and read Chris's intro to this thread.My mistake.
I thought everything about GW but pics of figures and AARs was supposed to be on this thread. I didn't realize rules and army list etc could go on the other areas.
Again my mistake.This really is supposed  to be the GW bitch thread ;)
carry on

Its more a talk about the company as a whole thread rather than an individual models or rules thread.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 20, 2014, 01:05:55 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 20, 2014, 12:38:44 PM

Closely followed by "I keep buying GW minis and playing their rules because I like the fluff".


Which is perhaps the worst anyone can use as an argument, as the rules, and the way they make ppl play the game, in NO way reflect the fluff.

We have here a squad of centuries old, battle hardened Space Marine veterans in 10.000 year old Terminator armour, the best humanity could ever produce, and... oops, gone....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 20, 2014, 02:08:44 PM
 lol

Some of the rationalisations are... interesting. I've seen some proudly proclaim they pay the full price because it includes 'gaming in a GW store' and dismiss other rulesets because they're 'too abstract' (While pausing in the middle of a fight to tot up arbitrary points that hinge on whether you've got four guys or three guys in the back rank, for example) among others.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 20, 2014, 06:32:37 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 20, 2014, 03:39:57 AM
I posted some commentary about the current profit/sales issues at GW on my blog

http://zac.calgarygamers.net/whatever/the-gw-death-spiral

Be interested in any comments people have

Wot, no blog comments enabled? :)

All pretty solid. However, I've already seen the deliberation that if they cut prices they'll just cut revenues and put themselves further in the hole. I'm not sure I entirely agree with it. Sure, cutting prices will affect them badly at this particular point in time, but if I'm reading right, RIM's problem (or the problem Mace is talking about) is market saturation. I don't think market saturation is GW's problem, no sir! They're huge for a wargames business, the biggest fish in the pond; but their biggest problem, to all appearances, is that their prices are driving off disgruntled customers, limiting what remaining customers will or can buy, and keeping potential customers away. Not so much market saturation as decreasing market penetration.

Lack of innovation - as Mace also mentions - is a problem for GW too. And game quality. And treating customers and distributors like ambulatory expendable wallets and despised enemies, respectively. And so on. But number one at the top of the list has got to be the perceived value of the minis and their ever-creeping price tags. I don't know if a drop in prices will bring enough newbies and grognards rushing back in time to steady their sales and revenues; but like we've been saying lately, and as I've seen plenty of people remark elsewhere, the 'GW hating' discussions you see everywhere are full of people who would like to buy GW minis again, if they weren't so much of an apparent rip-off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 20, 2014, 06:49:58 PM
I've actually noticed on trademe, (online auction site in nz) that the amount of second hand GW figures have dropped a huge amount probably by half, that has to be some sign, either that people now can't afford new so a lot more are buying second hand or that people can't afford to get rid of their old dark elves to buy the new ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 20, 2014, 10:16:33 PM
Having digested everything that has been said about GW after the announcement of the share value drop and financial report, it seems to me that GW's biggest problem these days is trust. People clearly still love their IP and product, or they wouldn't get so bent out of shape over all this. But GW has lost the trust of both consumer and independent retailer. Both groups seem to approach GW with an attitude of  "I wonder how they will screw us over this time?"
Judging by share value, they are now (maybe only temporarily) losing the trust of shareholders as well.

Behind all the gnashing of teeth over pricing, sales restrictions, casting materials and quality, design, lawsuits and such, over the past years, seems to be this basic dissactisfaction:
An increasing segment of customers (and "ex-"customers) no longer trust GW to deliver value for money or even to give consideration to their user experience/satisfaction.
Those consumers that  "evangelise(d)" the brand no longer trust GW to let them preach in peace. The spectre of the C&D is large these days.
Most retailers (at least the ones that I know) no longer trust GW to deal with them fairly or on equal terms, GW is seen as a necessary evil. It's no longer seen as a co-operative relationship, but an exploitative.
Now shareholders seem doubt if GW can give them return on investment, otherwise they would value the shares higher.
GW so far has always dealt with problems through business decisions/actions, rational* measures. But no business-like solutions can fix loss of trust.
I wonder if GW, with it's current company culture and attitude can find a way to fix this problem, or even correctly identify it.
If not, one can only hope that the IP gets picked up by someone who can.

During the recession banks weathered the loss of trust because no one, person or business, can function without them. I don't think GW is that indispensable...


*: Note: rational, as in "generated from the mind", not necessarily sensible or logical....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chaos Wolf on January 22, 2014, 01:17:31 AM
I just read elsewhere on the interwebs that GW is closing down several of it's regional HQ's and assigning the responsibility for their operations to other (presumably larger) HQ's. I also read that they were axing several of their armies from the the line of products. Specifically mentioned were Sisters of Battle, Bretonnians, Beastmen, Wood Elves, and Tomb Kings.

I'm not trying to spread rumors, was just curious if anyone here had heard/could substantiate the validity of this?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 22, 2014, 01:27:17 AM
I think that is more likely to be rumor than anything. Tomb kings was first to receive the new army book for WHFB so I doubt they would axe that. Beastmen has been a standard part of GW for a long time(although it was part of huge bigger chaos force list along with demons). I would be happy if they axed tomb kings and combined it back with vampire counts though. 1 undead force is all you need and I liked how the old undead book allowed you a variety of different general types for the army. But that's just my point of view.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 22, 2014, 04:04:45 AM
I think axing armies is a rumour too, but I have heard that they're moving certain boxes for each army (or some) to direct order only. With the usual breezy lark of kicking customers and retailers in the backside.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 22, 2014, 05:48:55 AM
Axing armies would be the final straw because honestly, they have most of the figures already made and once they go down that route, they literally won't have any product left to sell! I mean there hasn't even been a new Sororitas figure in ages anyway, nor does it look like they plan to make one (I always joke that this is because there's a big NO GURLZ ALOUD sign on the GW HQ), so I'm not even sure how axing the Sisters (for example) would even save money.

I doubt that particular rumour is accurate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 22, 2014, 08:57:54 AM
With all this talk about axing armies raising its head, it has made me think of those poor old Squats all over again.... :'( :'( :'(


I never did understand why they would do that then, and it makes even less sense now, when I know there is still a lot of love for them years later.
Bastards!
 >:(

(At least the Squats are alive and well in my sci-fi universe!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 22, 2014, 09:17:56 AM
I remember seeing Jes Godwins sketches for the 40k version of Skaven. Rather Necromunda styley  8)

Question is, when they eventually go under will the original moulds be scrapped  ??? They must have literally thousand of old moulds.

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 22, 2014, 09:47:59 AM
I know, bring back the realm of chaos stuff, zoats, screamer killer, aargh the list could go forever.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 22, 2014, 09:52:41 AM
If they weren't so sniffy about their IP, GW might have granted a licence for some of the fringe armies to other manufacturers. For a percentage fee, someone else could take the risk and expense and keep the franchise ticking over in full.

I never really understood why 'Chaos' was split into three anyway. I thought it was doing nicely with Warriors, Beastmen and Demons in the same army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 22, 2014, 12:15:38 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on January 22, 2014, 09:17:56 AM
Question is, when they eventually go under will the original moulds be scrapped  ??? They must have literally thousand of old moulds.

Sadly, I fear we may be up for a disappointment on that point...
Last I heard GW routinely scraps moulds once they stop producing a figure. Apparently the accountants think storing old moulds has a poor return on investment and they are rather fearful of someone snagging a few and casting them...  >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 22, 2014, 12:21:02 PM
Sounds about right  ::)

Never mind eh  :(

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 22, 2014, 12:29:03 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on January 22, 2014, 05:48:55 AM
(I always joke that this is because there's a big NO GURLZ ALOUD sign on the GW HQ)

Lenton headquarters:

(http://www.screeninsults.com/images/the-little-rascals-clubhouse.jpg)

Well, it'll look like that in a few years, anyway. ;)

And in seriousness, it's probably not too far off GW's intended and encouraged demographic anyway, in terms of age and maturity.

Quote from: Mason on January 22, 2014, 08:57:54 AM
With all this talk about axing armies raising its head, it has made me think of those poor old Squats all over again.... :'( :'( :'(

The term I've seen bandied about recently, is 'being squatted'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on January 22, 2014, 12:29:50 PM
To think that GW would go belly up. Ah, well... probably won't change much.


Thinking about it it's the second time though, right?

There was some economical problems in the mid nineties forcing them to make a public company right?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 22, 2014, 01:11:18 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 22, 2014, 09:52:41 AM
I never really understood why 'Chaos' was split into three anyway. I thought it was doing nicely with Warriors, Beastmen and Demons in the same army.

To try and get people to buy three armies...and three army books....and three sets of dice....etc...

I was once told by a 40k tournament player (and he knew his stuff as he came either first or second at the UK Grand Tournament that year...) that in order to be a REALLY good tournament player, you needed to have one of every Codex and study them as you need to know EXACTLY what EVERY component of EVERY army can do.

A little too much dedication for my liking, financially and mentally.... o_o o_o o_o

That would certainly seem to fit well with the GW marketing policy though.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 22, 2014, 01:15:57 PM
Quote from: Mason on January 22, 2014, 01:11:18 PM
I was once told by a 40k tournament player (and he knew his stuff as he came either first or second at the UK Grand Tournament that year...) that in order to be a REALLY good tournament player, you needed to have one of every Codex and study them as you need to know EXACTLY what EVERY component of EVERY army can do.

That's really just an extra-polarization of the maxims 'know thy enemy' and 'knowledge is power'. The Warhamster rules are notorious in their endless posibilty of min-maxing forces to exploit the weaknesses of your opponent.

I know of an example where one guy made an all-flying Eldar army for a friendly(!) game vs Tyranids. His opponent never played again...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 22, 2014, 01:54:57 PM
Quote from: Mason on January 22, 2014, 01:11:18 PM
I was once told by a 40k tournament player (and he knew his stuff as he came either first or second at the UK Grand Tournament that year...) that in order to be a REALLY good tournament player, you needed to have one of every Codex and study them as you need to know EXACTLY what EVERY component of EVERY army can do.

And where in that statement does 'game' come into it. Defeats the object really.

Power gamers  :-X :-X :-X

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 22, 2014, 02:05:13 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on January 22, 2014, 01:54:57 PM
And where in that statement does 'game' come into it. Defeats the object really.

Power gamers  :-X :-X :-X

Its why I avoid tournaments in general and why I tend not to play games like Flames of War which really seem to appeal to the hard-core power gamer types.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 22, 2014, 02:06:17 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 22, 2014, 12:29:03 PM
And in seriousness, it's probably not too far off GW's intended and encouraged demographic anyway, in terms of age and maturity.

Agreed. Look at the bastion of serious discussion and gender equality this place is.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on January 22, 2014, 02:18:59 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on January 22, 2014, 01:54:57 PM
And where in that statement does 'game' come into it. Defeats the object really.

Power gamers  :-X :-X :-X

cheers

James

Well, its a tournament competetive game, which is what some people enjoy and go to the event for. Not my thing personally, but horses courses.

All of the tournament hardcores that I know (GT winner and a UK masters winner) have given up buying all of the codices now that its £30 a go or just moved to Warmachine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on January 22, 2014, 03:30:25 PM
Well here is my two cents...

As much as I have always collected/modelled/gamed with games workshop miniatures and got had a lot of fun doing so, it has recently become too stupid to comprehend,
I mean, £30 for a codex/army book and stupid prices for models is making it a 'rich kids game'.
Not only is it stupidly expensive, the games constant rules changes have made it less and less fun,
The 'demolition' of the specialist games, the only real fun ones for me, (inquisitor, mordheim, BFG and necromunda) has meant a lot less models are available direct which has made the prices on ebay sky rocket for those genuinely interested in gaming with them.
and the recent anouncment of white dwarf going weekly is just SAD, waste of more paper and it will be just a load of bull%$*&

If they go belly up, then it is their own blasted fault....

Rant over....

For now  ::) haha
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Dozing Dragon on January 22, 2014, 03:57:44 PM
GW has never really stood a chance since the first LotR licence. The shares shot up and profits were wonderful for the vampire shareholders who have wanted the same ever since. They were warned it was a bubble that would not be repeated but for me it seems to have downhill product wise / price inflation wise since around that time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 22, 2014, 07:15:36 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 22, 2014, 02:06:17 PM
Agreed. Look at the bastion of serious discussion and gender equality this place is.  ;D

Point. lol  But I assume it's common knowledge that GW targets a young audience (~12yrs) to churn through, and this line of thought corresponds with yet others I've been reading about the XXXtreme grimdark cartoonifiying of GW's fluff over the years for that purpose.
I think the difference between them and us has a bit to do with that quote by CS Lewis: "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." (http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/84171-critics-who-treat-adult-as-a-term-of-approval-instead) To a kid, more specifically a preteen or young teen boy, the grimdark Liefeld-style antiheroes of 40K and their antics probably look dead badass and grown up compared to what might've interested them a couple of years before. Us, we know we're having a laugh and playing with toy soldiers, even though some of us (self included ;) ) can get a bit serious and argumentative about it at times.

Not so much he-man woman-haters here, as women-tolerated shed-putterers, I think? :) That's my brainfart anyway. YMMV.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 22, 2014, 11:47:44 PM
Now this is an interesting job advert:

http://careers.games-workshop.com/2014/01/15/customer-experience-interim-2-years-nottingham-uk/

Quote
We are looking for someone to spend the next two years turning over every – and we mean every – stone to find opportunities for how we can improve the customer experience in our stores and recommend the ones that will work. We aren’t talking about incremental improvements; we want to completely re-imagine what it is like for people coming into our stores, engaging with and buying our wonderful miniatures.

Emphasis theirs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 22, 2014, 11:48:58 PM
Aya, but only if it doesn't cost them anything  :?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 23, 2014, 01:32:41 AM
They also basically are asking for fanboys to apply. I think they need someone that has little or no attachment to the stores to give a better view of what it will be like for new customers coming in. Someone that is already used to GW stores won't be able to see what is staring them straight in the face.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 23, 2014, 02:23:29 AM
Two years to globe trot on expenses and write a report?  ;D 

Gosh, you could swing the lead for 23 months and cobble something together at the end.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 23, 2014, 06:15:03 AM
Yep, at the end of it say "everyone says your stuff costs too much" get the to drop prices and get them back in everyone's good books. I reckon you could fluff about for an extra month on top of the 23  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 23, 2014, 06:29:19 AM
Man, that smells of incredible desperation. Not to mention total cluelessness.

I mean, what publically-traded company loses 25% of stock value and then puts an ad in the paper the next day asking "Can someone please come and tell us what we're doing wrong?"   :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 23, 2014, 07:18:46 AM
Prices to high
entry costs to high
Places to play are shrinking
GW treats customers and retailers with utter distain
Poor unbalanced rules that encourage power gaming
Gw has no longterm plan they are entirely focused on short term game
Cutting can only help so much you need to grow not slice indiscriminately

Cheque please.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 23, 2014, 07:56:03 AM
Tbh when people talk about pricing being too high they often mean the cost to field a decent army to actually play the game is to high. Some models are far more over costed than others. Some are cheaper than competitors and some are far more expensive but in almost every instance 40k ends up the more expensive game to play.

Getting rid of codex's would be a nice start. You should have army lists in the rulebook in my opinion. You shouldn't be in situation where you have the rules the models and still cant play.

The amount of models needed for a game is to high also.

There are lots of compounding factors that cause the game to be so expensive. Increasing the number of models in a box would certainly be a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 23, 2014, 08:52:42 AM
...and the push to do those massive tank games that no historical gamer would dream of doing in 28mm......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 23, 2014, 09:05:54 AM
When they first brought out that basilisk tank I though it was ridiculous, even back when GW was all I knew. The angle on a gun the big? Wtf. And now the flyers that zoom around the table. I prefer these games as infantry type games, small speeders and bikes yep, but anything more than that should be held back for Epic, oh what, can't do that now
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 23, 2014, 09:14:01 AM
I just don't see a place for anything bigger than a tank in 28mm. Certainly not flyers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 23, 2014, 10:46:51 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 22, 2014, 09:20:14 PM
As for the GW background being immature I agree 110%. (see previous posts.) I also will add its a background from an era that has disappeared off the face of the earth. 

any student of modern history will tell you the 80's was under a very different world view and had a very different outlook to what we have today. If the world blowing up in a thermonuclear fireball was a horse race when I was 13 I would of been hard put not to put some swag on it running first. You had the utter nihilism of punk rock (everything is fucked anyway so lets smash it up and be done with it.) and I might add for many a nice black and white world view of us and them because the lines were so clear cut be it socially or politically. The 40K background is a child of those times. Other kids were OGRE, TW2000, cyberpunk and tomorrow the world. Grimdark was the order of the day.

Modern Sci fi backgrounds tend to to be very different and reflect more current concerns.

In fact going a step further the 40k background is tied to what was popular with the youth back then. Its full of Heavy metal punk and goth stuff. (with the orcs being a nod to hooligans with titles like 'ere we go.') with lashings of what was considered naughty back then like demons (keep in mind D&D's makers TSR was in court in the US defending itself against accusations it caused people to commit suicide and jack chick comics warned you hell awaited anyone foolish enough to play a magic user. It was a different world.)

Its all dated and silly now ...

^ THIS.

Our perception of TODAY and the impact of technology is changing the way we view tomorrow.

While the WH40K universe was a wonderful place a decade or so ago, as each day passes it becomes more and more counter-intuitive and illogical.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 23, 2014, 10:50:42 AM
... and does anyone think the Empire are the good guys anymore, surely the Tau have the moral high ground nowadays....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: knoxville on January 23, 2014, 11:05:12 AM
The advert sounds like a great job opportunity and sums up 50% of my current job in international fashion retail consultancy. Imho anyone saying the advert sounds like desperation or a price drop would drive customers back into stores has clearly absolutely no clue how retail works. I've worked with companies of which products 90% of the people I know say they're way too expensive, but they even increased their prices, improved the customer experience a lot and increased their revenue to a previously unimaginable amount.

Success in niche retail is only about quality and customer experience, it's as little about prices as salaries are the only motivating factor of employees. It's important to a certain degree, but just one part of bigger puzzle. GW is no Walmart or Aldi, they're not selling life essential goods. They're the deli food boutique around the corner which is unfortunately driven by shareholders and happened to have lots of success in the late 90s, early 00s. If I think about the experiences in my local GW, I see lots of possibilities for improvement, compared to other retail stores.

Also, aside from the relieving feeling someone gets from a price rant on the internet, think about the % of how many of the complaining people are still customers. Even if GW would decrease prices, the majority would not come back. So in the end, they would not make any more money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 23, 2014, 11:15:11 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 22, 2014, 09:20:14 PM
TBH its time that mantle of no good with the girls got binned as its outdated and out of touch.

Fair enough Scurv, but I say 'women-tolerated' rather than 'women-repelling'. ;) For every tale of significant others getting into gaming and especially painting, there are more about 'sneaking minis past the wife'.

I hear you about the original fluff too, but they have been sucking the humour out of it and upping the grimdark. So much so that any OTT moments don't really seem goofy or satirical anymore.

Quote from: carlos13th on January 23, 2014, 07:56:03 AM
Tbh when people talk about pricing being too high they often mean the cost to field a decent army to actually play the game is to high.

I still think £35 for one box of 10 injection-cast plastic witch elves is a bit much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 23, 2014, 11:17:11 AM
Quote from: knoxville on January 23, 2014, 11:05:12 AM
Imho anyone saying the advert sounds like desperation or a price drop would drive customers back into stores has clearly absolutely no clue how retail works.

Well, that makes it us and GW.

And I still think £35 for one box of 10 injection-cast plastic witch elves is a bit much. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 23, 2014, 11:21:58 AM
The Empire has never been the good guys...
Just look at the 1st and 2nd ed background. They were clearly portrayed as the extreme of a fascist absolute police state. It was just the only means of survival for the human race available and achievable, the alternative was slavery to aliens and extinction. In Rogue Trader, Space marines were psychopaths and violent criminals that got round up and brainwashed to be controllable, total terror troops.
But somewhere along the line that was retconned, and the reader only got the Imperial propaganda presented in the background writing; Empire are the good guys, Space Marines are noble warrior-heroes, etc.  But at the same time the visual Grimdark got cranked up, I guess to maintain some sort of "nihilism-quota".

Tau, good guys? Join us voluntarily or be subjugated. Either way, end up as an client-race, seen as inferior to the Tau themselves.
Okay, they are nicer about their conquering than, say, the Imperium or Orks, and they don't eat as much people as the Tyranids, but still...  ;)


I have to agree with Scurv on the setting... They filed off all the rough edges, let it get stale and dated, and sprinkled it with artifical flavoring (skull-shaped oddly enough).
In the end, I could almost say that GW's settings have become parodies of themselves. Like Vermis said, the OTT hyperbole is the baseline nowadays.

Knoxville, I think that is the problem, you say that succes in niche retail is only about quality and customer experience. Two values GW performs rather poorly on, these days.
Sure, their plastic figs are good, but compared to market, not nearly as exceptional as they claim. I'm not even going to start on Finecast. And customer experience? Well, a 5 minute rounds on the internet should give you all the data you need on that point...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: knoxville on January 23, 2014, 11:47:07 AM
Quote from: Vermis on January 23, 2014, 11:17:11 AM
Well, that makes it us and GW.

And I still think £35 for one box of 10 injection-cast plastic witch elves is a bit much. ;)

You are right, but the advert shows GW has acknowledged the problem and tries to face it. Let's just not start to speculate about the outcome :)


Quote from: Modhail on January 23, 2014, 11:21:58 AM
Knoxville, I think that is the problem, you say that succes in niche retail is only about quality and customer experience. Two values GW performs rather poorly on, these days.
Sure, their plastic figs are good, but compared to market, not nearly as exceptional as they claim. I'm not even going to start on Finecast. And customer experience? Well, a 5 minute rounds on the internet should give you all the data you need on that point...

I agree about the the experience, but they're obviously trying to improve. Don't take it personal, but why do so many people still beat the dead Finecast horse? The are pulling out of it, so they aware of the problems. I wonder if that behaviour is the same for other product discussion on the internet. For every one asking about the new Toyota Prius, are there 2+ pointing out the brake problems of previous ranges and cars catching fire years ago? :)

I disagree about the quality though. I am not saying they're the only one with a high standard, but they certainly lead the group.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 23, 2014, 11:50:23 AM
Quote from: knoxville on January 23, 2014, 11:05:12 AM
I've worked with companies of which products 90% of the people I know say they're way too expensive, but they even increased their prices, improved the customer experience a lot and increased their revenue to a previously unimaginable amount.

Quote from: Modhail on January 23, 2014, 11:21:58 AM
Knoxville, I think that is the problem, you say that succes in niche retail is only about quality and customer experience. Two values GW performs rather poorly on, these days.
Sure, their plastic figs are good, but compared to market, not nearly as exceptional as they claim. I'm not even going to start on Finecast. And customer experience? Well, a 5 minute rounds on the internet should give you all the data you need on that point...

Ayup. Like wot I posted back on page 28:

Quote from: Vermis on January 20, 2014, 06:32:37 PM
Lack of innovation - as Mace also mentions - is a problem for GW too. And game quality. And treating customers and distributors like ambulatory expendable wallets and despised enemies, respectively. And so on. But number one at the top of the list has got to be the perceived value of the minis and their ever-creeping price tags.

I'm no Theo Paphitis like yourself, but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and I'm not blind. I know gamers got burned by GW on more than price, but...

Quote
Also, aside from the relieving feeling someone gets from a price rant on the internet, think about the % of how many of the complaining people are still customers.

Can't think about the %. I don't know it. Do you know it? But I know that most price rants I see (with caveats about just where I'm looking and whether they're representative or not) involve a lot of people who then rave about what fun they have with the modern proliferation of other, better, cheaper wargames; and/or say they'd buy GW again, or wouldn't have drastically cut their GW spend, if the price per mini or army or book or game entry wasn't so freakin' ridiculous.

And according to what spurred this recent round of GW rhubarb, the % is going down.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 23, 2014, 12:02:08 PM
Quote from: knoxville on January 23, 2014, 11:47:07 AM
You are right, but the advert shows GW has acknowledged the problem and tries to face it. Let's just not start to speculate about the outcome

I can speculate about a survey into store buying experience when their problem is people not going to their stores. ;)

Quote
The are pulling out of it, so they aware of the problems.

And before that, after they pulled the first bubbly, broken failures out of the mould, they tried to (pardon my french) bullshit the customers for quite a while about how fine and high-quality it was. Not to mention upping the price ( ;) ) on what was supposed to be a cost-cutting measure.

Quote from: Scurv on January 23, 2014, 12:01:18 PM
Another thing is the fluff has totally eclipsed the game that it is about. I think this was also one of the reasons things just keep getting bigger. The fluff is all about huge amounts of things blowing each other up in planet shaking battles that grind on for years blah blah blah. Hard to tie that to 30 figs and a hover jeep on the table.

Getting back to how to fix things I would suggest the micro games shotgun. Put out 4 small self contained games (with room for expansion) each year and the ones that are a hit put out supps for.

Says to me: 'Epic'.

Although Epic's probably safer as OOP and 'open source'.

Quote
Its just the fact you cant get it that stops everyone else saying actually its a bit shit compared to the current stuff.

 o_o Are you including rulesets in that remark?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 23, 2014, 12:17:44 PM
As Vermis said.
And to add, at least why I am still miffed about Finecast: Yup, they are pulling out of it, but without as much as an "Oops, sorry" or other acknowledgement to the customers for the poor grade product they had to endure. Plus, what are we getting as a replacement? This. (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440271a&prodId=prod2160140a) 18 Pound, mono-pose, no extra parts, plastics... Another downgrade in options for once again a higher price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 23, 2014, 01:22:38 PM
As someone who worked in retail for a decade and ended up running a shop of my own, I can state that price is a big factor, especially when there are cheaper alternatives easily available. GW is not a niche any more, there are now some viable alternatives and their arrogance in assuming they had people hooked for life has bitten them in the arse. Bigger companies than they have fallen victim to this sort of complacency in thinking they don't have to continually innovate. 

Anyone who thinks GW make the best miniatures in the market have swallowed their propaganda nicely and clearly don't spend a lot of time checking out the superb works of art (created in metal and suitable resin) by smaller companies. Price is not the sum total of their mistakes, just one of the big ones. The problem is, when a customer breaks the habit because they just can't afford it (part of it is simply not having enough money to keep the hobby going and part of it is feeling like an idiot when the rest of the world is laughing at your gullibility), then they are less likely to get hooked again.

Having said that, if GW only lowered their prices and did nothing else they would get a lot more business from the fringe collectors or even those dedicated GW'ers who want lots more toyz for their money. Would it offset the losses in profit per item? Well, that's where you have to be good at your sums beforehand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 23, 2014, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: carlos13th on January 23, 2014, 07:56:03 AM
Tbh when people talk about pricing being too high they often mean the cost to field a decent army to actually play the game is to high. Some models are far more over costed than others. Some are cheaper than competitors and some are far more expensive but in almost every instance 40k ends up the more expensive game to play.

I actually ran the numbers a while back when I was shocked at the price of a new Space Marine release

http://zac.calgarygamers.net/tabletop/alternative/what-can-you-get-for-a-box-of-space-marines

Core troops for armies can be had for a decent price. Everything else is priced based on the rarity in a force so the prices are all over the place.

That contributes to their games being so expensive. It isn't the two or three boxes of core troops its the $70 or 80 for a Special troop choice or $25 for an HQ model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 23, 2014, 02:18:50 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 23, 2014, 01:22:38 PM
Anyone who thinks GW make the best miniatures in the market have swallowed their propaganda nicely and clearly don't spend a lot of time checking out the superb works of art (created in metal and suitable resin) by smaller companies.

On the whole I think GW makes some very nice figures. Their plastics are especially good but their single figures are really lacking. It says something that probably my favourite GW single mini is an ancient sculpt of Kharn.

What brings the level of quality down is that they primarily produce figures for plastic production and use 3D sculpting and that brings with it a set of constraints.

They also produce figures that come with multiple possible poses and multiple weapon kits which again causes limits in their ability to sculpt.

Given that though, I think some of their figures are great. Their Wood Elf range, with the exception of some of the single figures, are great. I'd play a Wood Elf army in a second if it wasn't going to require a mortage payment to do so.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 23, 2014, 02:32:28 PM
Oh, they're good, I won't argue with that. But the best? No way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 23, 2014, 02:46:42 PM
Their quality is really top notch in most cases if you are looking at crisp detail and sculpting quality.  My big issue with many of the new releases hinges on style, and OTT details.  The style I can understand probably is more to appeal to their target audience, but the sheer amount of little bits and bobs and the huge gaudy wagons/monstrosities they have been releasing just end up being an eyesore.  I find more appeal in a well-sculpted and positioned cape or plate of armour than adorning said item with forty little skulls or baubles or medals or whatever.

Not to mention that the painting skill required to give justice to such sculpts just aren't there in most people who prefer gaming to painting, so it just makes a cluttered model look worse with a bad paintjob.  IMO a simple figure with a simple paintjob looks way better than a really busy but well sculpted miniature with the same simple skill level applied.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: knoxville on January 23, 2014, 04:19:50 PM
Cubs, just out of curiosity, who's the best in your POV? A lot of people keep saying they're not the best, but no one gives examples. As I said, I don't think they are the no. 1, but I cannot really think of a comparable company. The one I can think of as closest are probably Renedra and Tamiya.

Timbor: Too much details is an argument I never heard before, but I certainly get your point :D I think the best way to produce good paintjobs on GW models is to use the comic painting style they're promoting. In the same way the Foundry style works for more simple models, it brings the best of the model into focus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 23, 2014, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: knoxville on January 23, 2014, 04:19:50 PM
Cubs, just out of curiosity, who's the best in your POV?

You ever type anything and then later think, "Hmmm, that was a bit strong, perhaps I shouldn't have put it like that,"?

My options are -

1. Apologise for putting it so clumsily and accept I was being a bit of an eejit,

2. Claim to have been possessed by the spirit of the late Oliver Reed,

3. Blame the Catholic Church in some fashion.

Frankly I reckon the Pope hacked my computer and typed that in my name.

Let's try this - I no longer regard them as the best quality (although ten years ago I might have done so) because too many of their models look like overdressed action figures rolled in over-busy iconography for my taste ... BUT, I must learn to accept that others may like this and that this is their right.

Personally, I absolutely love Redbox Games stuff and find them nearly faultless. Tre Manor is a superb sculptor. Anything by the Perry twins oozes quality, ditto Paul Hicks and Steve Saleh. They manage to combine crisp detail with realism and great understated poses.

If you want the fantasy and sci-fi stuff, then Hasslefree, Otherworld Miniatures and pretty much anything they paint and display on WaMP I would rate above the current lines of GW. That isn't to say they don't have the odd outstanding piece that I can appreciate.

PS. This confuses me, because most of what Forgeworld produces (they still running?) is very fine indeed, but that same quality doesn't seem to drip through to their usual lines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 23, 2014, 06:46:32 PM
Could this be because the Forgeworld design team still sculpts their figures by hand, where GW's plastics are all made on a computer? Computer sculpted minis often lack the small imperfections and traces of the maker's hand that gives a handsculpted figure soul and presence. Computer sculpted mini's are just too clean and perfect to have a sense of "life" to them.

I've noticed something similar with other manufacturer's lines that mix traditional and computer sculpted mini's in their ranges, like Privateer Press.

Then again the Finecast stuff, and before that the last generations of metals were also sculpted by hand. But those were doused in "Grimdark" (a.k.a. skullz and bog rolls) to match the plastics, Forgeworld stuff tends to be a bit more understated. (for GW that is!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 23, 2014, 07:07:42 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2340100a

Sorry to be the one spamming links of late, but is this a new approach where they realise that bundles will be more attractive to customers if they save them money? Unthinkable! Credit where it's due, though; this box set saves you over £50 by the looks of it and it's not even Limited Edition!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 23, 2014, 07:36:27 PM
Quote from: Modhail on January 23, 2014, 06:46:32 PM
Could this be because the Forgeworld design team still sculpts their figures by hand, where GW's plastics are all made on a computer?

That might be part of it. They also don't spend a lot of time creating "heroic" figures. Even the Primarchs they are producing are much more realistic looking than most GW sculpts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 23, 2014, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: Gibby on January 23, 2014, 07:07:42 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2340100a

Sorry to be the one spamming links of late, but is this a new approach where they realise that bundles will be more attractive to customers if they save them money? Unthinkable! Credit where it's due, though; this box set saves you over £50 by the looks of it and it's not even Limited Edition!

That is actually a bit of an oddity for recent GW collections. Maybe they finally heard all the criticism of their previous efforts that gave you minimal savings?

Mind you the One Click Collection

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440161a&prodId=prod2350008a

is $387.50 Cnd and it has eight big models and a book  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 23, 2014, 08:22:17 PM
Quote from: knoxville on January 23, 2014, 11:05:12 AM
Also, aside from the relieving feeling someone gets from a price rant on the internet, think about the % of how many of the complaining people are still customers. Even if GW would decrease prices, the majority would not come back. So in the end, they would not make any more money.

I have to totally disagree with you; that statement is a contradiction to both microeconomics theory, and the statement of both myself and others here, that we would still be collecting if the prices hadn't gone through the roof..

And I do have a university degree in economics AND managed a retail store for five years, before anyone asks.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on January 24, 2014, 12:41:23 AM
Foundry did it and it seemed to work for them :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 24, 2014, 06:08:49 AM
That's actually a good example. GW should look to what Foundry, at least as a start.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 24, 2014, 07:47:34 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 23, 2014, 10:57:51 PM

and I am glad you have because I have a burning question on price and lowering it.

from deep in the memory vault something is telling me if you have a premium product and drop the price you can damage the brands perceived value and make things worse. "They used to make quality goods now they churn out cheap shit." sort of thing.
 
Is that just bad data in the brain or is there some validity to it.   

There is, but it really depends on consumer perception of the product, and as far as I remember it only applies in a competitive environment, and not monopoly situation - and I perceive GW as holding a kind of monopoly status (you cannot buy eldar, space marines, and other stuff from someone else, like you can with old west or pulp minis, for instance).

And I simply refuse the notion, that the great majority of gamers buys GW stuff for the bling value. If you compare to ladies accessories, you never hear someone complain about the price tag of their new chanel purse, or the likes. Luxury items are mainly bought for their show-off effect, only secondarily for their utility value - as opposed to miniatures that are mainly purchased for their in-game effect.

The supply/demand relationship in a monopoly situation gives a higher equilibrium price than the one in a competitive environment, but lower prices should still raise sales, while higher prices reduce it.

I firmly believe that GW has simply overshot the equilibrium price so  much that it's hurting sales, it's a simple as that.

Does anyone in here seriously believe that FEWER people would buy GW products if they could be had at reasonable prices??
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on January 24, 2014, 08:02:00 AM
If prices were lower I would buy loads of GW kits. The Flagellant box imediately springs to mind it really is a great set that can be used for soo many things. But I simply cannot convince myself to spend the amount of money that GW is asking for it.

I remember in the good old days when a GW box set with 20 models cost around £10 back they I would buy box sets just for bits. I would not dream of that now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: knoxville on January 24, 2014, 10:09:41 AM
@Cubs: Don't worry. It's the internet, how can someone take anything serious here, we're a bunch of model-soldier collecting nerds :D But thank you for your reply. If I understood you correctly, in your view quality = style. That's a bit hard to argue about :) I was more referring to actual casting quality.

@Argonor: You're right of course, I should have been more specific. Can we apply formulas and theories because of statements of some people on the internet? It's hard to find a truly objective crowd when talking about hobby-related stuff. Let's take the recent comments about Wargames Foundry. Would you think a global retail chain with around 2000 employees should take the same actions as a small company still relying on manual-casting, "because it worked for them"? I just find most peoples view too stuck in the 80s/90s. Back then, the companies were certainly comparable, but 20-30 years later? GW today is a multitude of connected problems and solutions. Just taking one action will not help, but the majority of the internet seems to forget that. I don't doubt that you or other LAFers would buy again, but would the amount be enough to justify the price decrease? Would the increased sales cover the decreased margin in long-term?

Also, everything that Scurv said about tattoed girls in their shops!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 24, 2014, 10:29:36 AM
I do not believe that most of us would go back even with a price decrease.  WH has evolved and moved on since most of us bought anything from GW, hence the surge in retroness on LAF.  There are masses of other games that we now play instead. I find it hard to see us being drawn back.

We forgave Foundry because they make the figures we want for our current fix and, as their range is so big, it covers a lot of stuff unavailable anywhere else and largely sculpted by our favourite guys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 24, 2014, 11:09:42 AM
I might buy some of the GW things if they fit in with my historicals. In fact I have a fair bit of Bretonnian stuff for my Norman Crusade army (which never seems to get painted). But these all seem to be the older lines - partly because they are cheaper to buy second hand and partly because I far prefer their older styles.

The reason I don't buy their paints and brushes any more is a lot to do with the price. They're good quality, but I can buy paints and brushes I think are the same or better quality five minute's walk from their store, for less money. Why wouldn't I?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 24, 2014, 11:30:58 AM
Quote from: knoxville on January 24, 2014, 10:09:41 AM
Just taking one action will not help, but the majority of the internet seems to forget that. I don't doubt that you or other LAFers would buy again, but would the amount be enough to justify the price decrease? Would the increased sales cover the decreased margin in long-term?

That all depends, but current situation with diminishing sales is not a viable long-term solution if you ask me. And as has been pointed out, the entry-cost for playing either of their games is probably also holding potential customers (or their parents) back, and when you look at how GW fared earlier, does indicate that aiming at a better relationship between perceived value and price also is the better way to succeed.

I am not applying curves to the statements on this forum, it's the other way around: I am arguing that we have been pushed well beyond the price we are willing to pay, and saying that it can probably be used as an example of the validity of economics theory.

I have been arguing for years that this would happen on a larger scale at some point; GW seems to only understand (or take into account) the business side of the equation, namely the profit maximization, whereas they seem to not grasp (or simply choose to ignore) consumer behaviour theories (utility maximization, and the way it influences the relationship between price and the amount purchased), which is half of the supply-demand situation.

It may be because they rely too heavily on their brand - maybe because of the situation before the internet, where their product was literally the only commercial wargaming product easily accessed by the great masses, I can't say for sure, but their - in my opinion - arrogant market behaviour now seems to be catching up...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 24, 2014, 12:20:57 PM
I'd buy stuff if the prices went down, but only down by the right amount  ;)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 24, 2014, 01:14:16 PM
I will say this in their favour, they've never quibbled (with me anyway) over replacements or refunds.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on January 24, 2014, 01:15:10 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on January 24, 2014, 12:20:57 PM
I'd buy stuff if the prices went down, but only down by the right amount  ;)

cheers

James

I'd fill my garage with plague bearers and nurgle flies if they dropped the lid on the loo!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 24, 2014, 02:42:16 PM
I would think that hiring young women would indeed help, but it would take a while to be able to retain them as staff, I would think.  I am not sure that many young women would want to continue working at a place where they have to put up with awkward leering from sweaty teenagers all day.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 24, 2014, 02:51:52 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on January 24, 2014, 12:20:57 PM
I'd buy stuff if the prices went down, but only down by the right amount  ;)

Me too, but there is very little that I would be tempted by, mainly due to the way they have changed the 'look' of everything.

Saying that, some of their scenery is very good.
No idea where I would store any more scenery, though.....



Quote from: Dr. The Viking on January 24, 2014, 01:15:10 PM
I'd fill my garage with plague bearers and nurgle flies if they dropped the lid on the loo!

 lol lol
You are just too fussy!



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 24, 2014, 03:27:45 PM
I was out for a game last night and the local Warhammer crowd were all talking about the new Tyranid swarm collection. Half of them thought it was a good deal and the other half thought it was still too expensive.

Interesting to see that the two "deals" GW has offered for this army have already started gamers talking though
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on January 24, 2014, 06:04:49 PM
I would buy GW stuff if it was cheaper- There would be more stuff I would take a punt on. There are miniatures I see and would like to paint (new sternguard) but for 30.00 for five models...no way. I know you get loads of 'extras' but you often get a few extras with Perry stuff for example, but they don't charge the proverbial earth for it.

I would say the general casting quality has gone down since the 90s too. It was very rare to get bent or miscast parts on miniatures then- The few metal Sternguard I have, have a lot more small (but correctable 'faults')

If they want to save their arses GW should get out those old molds and cast up all the stuff that demands and sells for ridiculous prices on ebay. Old orcs, Dwarves, and Brettonians/Empire would be a good start. Maybe sell them under the 'Citadel' banner to differentiate them from the new stuff. It could be that simple... either that or put them in the 'collectors' bit on the website.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 24, 2014, 06:33:07 PM
Quote from: westwaller on January 24, 2014, 06:04:49 PM
If they want to save their arses GW should get out those old molds and cast up all the stuff that demands and sells for ridiculous prices on ebay. Old orcs, Dwarves, and Brettonians/Empire would be a good start. Maybe sell them under the 'Citadel' banner to differentiate them from the new stuff. It could be that simple... either that or put them in the 'collectors' bit on the website.

That would be good start, but they would have to price them competitively or ebay would still be the choice every time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 24, 2014, 07:48:11 PM
Quote from: westwaller on January 24, 2014, 06:04:49 PM
If they want to save their arses GW should get out those old molds and cast up all the stuff that demands and sells for ridiculous prices on ebay. Old orcs, Dwarves, and Brettonians/Empire would be a good start. Maybe sell them under the 'Citadel' banner to differentiate them from the new stuff. It could be that simple... either that or put them in the 'collectors' bit on the website.

New supply would rapidly reduce the price. The lack of miniatures and even a small demand for them would create inflated prices. They'd fill that market quite quickly
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 24, 2014, 08:03:58 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 24, 2014, 07:48:11 PM
New supply would rapidly reduce the price. The lack of miniatures and even a small demand for them would create inflated prices. They'd fill that market quite quickly

There are people that would buy straight from GW, even at a higher price point than eBay, to avoid potential recasts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on January 24, 2014, 08:58:18 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on January 22, 2014, 09:17:56 AM
I remember seeing Jes Godwins sketches for the 40k version of Skaven. Rather Necromunda styley  8)

Question is, when they eventually go under will the original moulds be scrapped  ??? They must have literally thousand of old moulds.

cheers

James

Sadly, they junked shitloads of them in the citadel hq base move years ago. Andy at Heresy told me they were sliced with stanley knives and skipped!   :o

I saw a terminator spin mould on ebay once a couple of years ago. I think they still have masters of everything so moulds could be recreated, but so many have gone sadly. :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on January 24, 2014, 09:01:43 PM
Sorry double post. Anyway I think that the bottom line is that they don't get the importance or value of nostalgia sales. If they did they would clean up. Rogue Trader interest runs higher than ever as is the old hammer wfb

sadly for many reasons GW refuse to reflect and just run forward to the next windmill. ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 24, 2014, 09:49:31 PM
Quote from: Commander Vyper on January 24, 2014, 09:01:43 PM
sadly for many reasons GW refuse to reflect and just run forward to the next windmill. ;)

(http://i.imgur.com/ixCsi.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 24, 2014, 10:44:23 PM
Quote from: Commander Vyper on January 24, 2014, 09:01:43 PM
Sorry double post. Anyway I think that the bottom line is that they don't get the importance or value of nostalgia sales.

As I stated (in other words), they haven't got the faintest idea what makes customers tick, but seem to think that it's all a matter of 'if we make it, they'll buy it'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 24, 2014, 11:19:05 PM
Quote from: Argonor on January 24, 2014, 10:44:23 PM
As I stated (in other words), they haven't got the faintest idea what makes customers tick, but seem to think that it's all a matter of 'if we make it, they'll buy it'.

I think that people here may over-estimate the nostalgia market.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 25, 2014, 01:16:52 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on January 24, 2014, 09:49:31 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/ixCsi.gif)

If that doesn't sum it up perfectly I don't know what does.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 25, 2014, 01:24:24 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 24, 2014, 11:30:49 PM
its more than price with GW.

I think I figured it out. GW is that annoying kid who had a swimming pool in his backyard when you were a kid and its high summer. You want to swim in the pool, its the only pool and you are going to have to pay over the market rate in bagged lollies to do it. To get to the good bit you are going to have to eat a little proverbial shit.

Then one summer a bunch of other kids got pools just as good to go swimming in.

Never swim in that little bastards pool again. In fact I would even swim in a shitter pool as long as its not too shitty just so the little swine will never be king of summer again.

and for the people who live in -44 change pool to sauna I guess and it will work.  ;)

The are the eric cartman of minis companies. You just know they need a kick in the nuts every now and then to keep em real. They have acted like complete dickheads for so long that if I was to do business with them now it would be on my terms or never.

I will buy nostalgia figs at low prices only. They are not a premium product in my view. I think lots of the nostalgia thing is because some people can put an ace paintjob on a complete turd and make it shine.

what I love about the older figs is the flattened proportions and individual flair. That same style with modern sculpting would get my money faster than re released old stuff.

Yeah, modern sculpts are a very high quality and all the new technology is really great, but a lot of older ones really shine for personality.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 25, 2014, 02:09:01 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 24, 2014, 11:30:49 PM
its more than price with GW.

.......

The are the eric cartman of minis companies. You just know they need a kick in the nuts every now and then to keep em real. They have acted like complete dickheads for so long that if I was to do business with them now it would be on my terms or never.


This ^^^^ sums it very well.
I can be a right stubborn git ifI think I have been taken the piss out of.
Even to the point of cutting my own nose off.
GW did that to me a long time ago and I aint going back unless they change their ways big time.
 :D



Quote from: Scurv on January 24, 2014, 11:30:49 PM
I will buy nostalgia figs at low prices only. They are not a premium product in my view. I think lots of the nostalgia thing is because some people can put an ace paintjob on a complete turd and make it shine.


Here we may just disagree (not that that is a bad thing, each to their own...).

I will pay whatever I think is fair, and that may mean more than normal if it is the only way that I can get something that I really value.

The old '80's D&D Minotaur was the last time that I did that, mind you...

I do still love some of their old stuff, but I am slowly starting to gather my favourite bits through here so no real complaints at all.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 25, 2014, 09:33:39 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 24, 2014, 11:19:05 PM
I think that people here may over-estimate the nostalgia market.  ;)

It isn't nearly as good as it used to be.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 25, 2014, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 24, 2014, 11:30:49 PM
The are the eric cartman of minis companies. You just know they need a kick in the nuts every now and then to keep em real. They have acted like complete dickheads for so long that if I was to do business with them now it would be on my terms or never.
Yup, the dickhead factor is a major thing. I've had several instances where I wanted a particular GW figure and was close to accepting the high price, until I remembered where the money would be going to...

Quote from: Scurv on January 24, 2014, 11:30:49 PM
I will buy nostalgia figs at low prices only. They are not a premium product in my view. I think lots of the nostalgia thing is because some people can put an ace paintjob on a complete turd and make it shine.
For me, the low prices are part of the nostalgia...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 25, 2014, 11:54:34 AM
I just buy second hand, nothing really from their shop aside from the occasional supply.   

One of my favorite minis was the Marauder Giant.  That's what I think of when I think of the glories of GW/Citadel/Marauder.  It was a great casting, beautiful sculpt, the price was fair.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 25, 2014, 01:41:54 PM
WD is now weekly and they are debuting next month a new monthly mag, 'Warhammer Visions'...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 25, 2014, 03:58:05 PM
Quote
'Warhammer Visions'...

Does it come with some mind-altering chemical?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on January 25, 2014, 04:11:21 PM
Just found this GW announcement on their website note the essential part   lol:

White Dwarf, now weekly.

Available exclusively through Games Workshop stores, independent retailers, and games-workshop.com. White Dwarf is an exciting and essential weekly hobby magazine that contains something for every hobbyist, every week - guaranteed!

·    36 pages of everything that is exciting and new in the hobby this week.
·    Detailed information on all the week’s other new releases, and the latest hobby news.
·    New features, new modelling and painting techniques, new rules, new columnists and much more.
·    All this every week for the same price as a single Citadel pot of paint!

Issue No.1 launches Saturday 1st Feb and subsequent issues follow every Saturday

Warhammer: Visions, now monthly.

Experience a visual feast of super high-quality Citadel Miniatures.  In more than 230 pages you’ll find a completely new take on the worlds of Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 in a stunning new extended pictorial style.

·    Contains all your favourite sections from Army of the Month and Blanchitsu, to Kit Bash and Paint Splatter.
·    Over 70 more pages than the previous monthly White Dwarf with more Golden Demon and Armies on Parade photos and more fantastic photographs of Citadel miniatures than ever before.

And it’s wrapped up in a fabulous new format that you will want to keep and collect! Issue No.1 out Saturday 1st February
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Dozing Dragon on January 25, 2014, 04:21:50 PM
I notice it didn't mention the price............
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 25, 2014, 04:24:09 PM
I am not really sure what the difference is. Which one is going to have the least adverts? Also are either of them actually going to be worth buying?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Quendil on January 25, 2014, 05:03:04 PM
I thought the weekly one was suppose to around £2 which is obviously a bargain for 36 pages of adverts  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 25, 2014, 06:54:06 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 24, 2014, 11:19:05 PM
I think that people here may over-estimate the nostalgia market.  ;)
Quote from: Cubs on January 25, 2014, 09:33:39 AM
It isn't nearly as good as it used to be.

I just want to say that yes, I caught this, and yes, you're a horrible man.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 25, 2014, 07:20:43 PM
I dunno about nostaglia. To pick up on the army I've still bought stuff for, Skaven: I got into Warhammer in 6th ed and the less said about those monkey-dog plastics of the time, the better. Most of the metals weren't great either and even the hallowed metals by Jes Goodwin, years earlier, while a bit of an improvement, didn't set my imagination on fire.
The current stuff by Seb Perbett, though - fantastic. A bit of a cartoony style, and AFAIK all digitally sculpted and designed, and I can see why people might not like it, but I think it suits the Skaven OTT, mad-scientist style pretty well. The only low points are the stormvermin (a bit meh compared to clanrats), night runners (still not updated from monkey-dogs), and the current, general sale rat ogres. (One of the first, fumbled attempts at CAD IIRC. Why they haven't been replaced by the starter set versions, I dunno.)

But with all that gushing...

Quote from: Too Bo Coo on January 25, 2014, 11:54:34 AM
I just buy second hand, nothing really from their shop aside from the occasional supply.

Yeah, that. Even the £20 for 20 basic troops that I wouldn't be too opposed to. It saves money for the stuff from the ebay pack-splitters and resellers who take a bit of a leaf out of GW's book.

And in response to Joroas from a few pages back: they can keep their game and it's rules; I just want their minis, at a decent price. :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 25, 2014, 08:07:25 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on January 25, 2014, 06:54:06 PM
I just want to say that yes, I caught this, and yes, you're a horrible man.  lol

(http://en.olympiahall.com/vmedia/390/musicstory/5685-sammy-davis-jr-400-400.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on January 29, 2014, 04:26:19 AM
Didn't see this mentioned anywhere else, an even though it's just a rumour, it's a welcome one from my point of view:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/01/breaking-40k-starter-boxed-set-details.html

A new 40k starter box, said to feature Orks and BA.

All copied straight from the link:
*****
Launch Window - @September
Rules Summary: Updated Mini-rulebook contains FAQs, minor tweaks and clarifications, and much of Stronghold Assault rolled into a new shiny package.
Miniatures included: @70
Armies:
 Blood Angels (plastic quick assembly)
- Assault Marine Squad
- Tactical Marine Squad
- Death Company Squad
- Captain (kitted out for assault)
- Chaplain
- Sanguinary Priest (limited edition, similar to the Dark Vengeance mini was)

Orks (plastic quick assembly)
- 'Ardboys (full mob)
- Nobs (small squad)
- Warboss
- Big Mek
- Ork themed fortification

This was described as simply an updated Warhammer 40,000 Starter Set and specifically "NOT 7th Edition."

You will note that September falls right smack in the middle of the rumored release slots for Orks (a couple of months before), and Blood Angels (a couple of months after). 

On first glance the  "not 7th Edition" makes no sense until you go back and read this.  This could certainly be the start of GW rolling the "organic living ruleset" for 40K that does away with edition numbers and the sales dips they cause. Instead we would get updated core products such as rulebooks and starter sets from time to time to "bring them up to speed" with all the most current rules additions that have been rolled out in the intervening years.
*****
I'd buy two, I have Orks and Space Marines, I can use BA for them no problem.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 29, 2014, 01:23:53 PM
Well, well, well.

Let's hope it's more than a rumour and heralds a sea-change in attitude.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on January 29, 2014, 01:36:43 PM
Hooray even more Orks and Marines  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 29, 2014, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 29, 2014, 01:23:53 PM
Well, well, well.

Let's hope it's more than a rumour and heralds a sea-change in attitude.

Problem is that in terms of a tabletop game they "jumped the shark" some time ago. They had a large-scale combat game that they could have expanded and made into a core game (Epic) but instead they have pushed the game into a rather odd situation where you have games with tables packed with utterly inappropriate numbers of large models. It sells them a lot of Baneblade kits but I don't know that it makes for a fun game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 29, 2014, 02:50:17 PM
I can certainly understand that since 40k is more skirmish than grand scale game that the firearms have proportionally shorter ranges for closer combat.  But when I see a table of air power, heavy and super heavy tanks and egad a titan, I have to shake my head in confusion.  Yes, it looks great, but the rationalizations become too much for me.   At least in 15mm FoW the ranges make more sense, if not perfect.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 29, 2014, 05:25:58 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on January 29, 2014, 02:50:17 PM
But when I see a table of air power, heavy and super heavy tanks and egad a titan, I have to shake my head in confusion. 

In Epic the Basilisk has a minimum range that is wider than a standard 40K table  ;D

When it first came out I played a few Apocalypse games but we did it on an enormous table and we also didn't have anything larger than a Land Raider. Playing a standard 40K game with those large vehicles and air power seems to be asking a bit much of the system.

I have a Baneblade that I was planning to use in an AE-WWII game but it was going to be the focus of the scenario, not a heavy support item  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 29, 2014, 05:31:06 PM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on January 29, 2014, 01:36:43 PM
Hooray even more Orks and Marines  ::)

Well, did you expect cowboys and indians?

Considering it's a 40k box, those picks are just fine. There's always someone in any medium-sized group who can use a few marines and orks if the starting player doesn't. Personally, I'd like to see more IG as they're supposed to form the huge majority of imperial forces (which definitely isn't the case on tabletops). However, as marines have become a self-feeding loop, probably selling more alone than all FB and LotR together and boosting their best-selling video game franchise, the chances of avoiding them in a starter box are slim.

It just makes a lot of sense businesswise so I don't really expect them to make a starter box to please LAFfers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on January 30, 2014, 02:11:21 PM
As a starter set, I would have had Tau and imperial guard, just to confuse everyone  lol

As for the size of the new models and games, i think its awful, nice looking models but very unwieldy on the tabletop. they should have kept epic AND all of the other specialist games. They allowed much more characterization of ones forces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 30, 2014, 04:29:58 PM
So...there's a video review of the visual feast of super high-quality Citadel Miniatures in a stunning new extended pictorial style, in a fabulous new format that you will want to keep and collect. (And WD too.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cqFbTa5qOI
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 30, 2014, 05:05:54 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on January 30, 2014, 04:29:58 PM
So...there's a video review of the visual feast of super high-quality Citadel Miniatures in a stunning new extended pictorial style, in a fabulous new format that you will want to keep and collect. (And WD too.)

GW has certainly done a lot of odd things over the years, and most could be explained as having some sort of rationalized (albeit misguided or not popular) business decisions.

I just don't 'get' this new White Dwarf format stuff. Why?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on January 30, 2014, 05:14:39 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on January 30, 2014, 05:05:54 PM
GW has certainly done a lot of odd things over the years, and most could be explained as having some sort of rationalized (albeit misguided or not popular) business decisions.

I just don't 'get' this new White Dwarf format stuff. Why?

I have to admit as a decision I hate it. I stopped buying white dwarf when it become £5.50 the last format change, I was reluctant enough to buy it £4.50 even, but at £7 for a visions which is just a load of photos and £2.50 for a 35 page magazine of stuff i can read on their website they must be having a laugh. i want ARTICLES ON GAMING MODELLING AND PAINTING not what new over priced models they have out and a bunch of pretty pictures. But than there are people out there who will buy it religiously which means they dont care about the loss of other custom.

This is just my opinion though...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 30, 2014, 06:20:51 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on January 30, 2014, 05:05:54 PM
I just don't 'get' this new White Dwarf format stuff. Why?

The weekly vs. monthly format? The split to WD and Visions? The new content and layout?

WD appears mostly the same as before in content and page count, just spread over every week now. The most obvious ploy would be that it's 50+% more $ now if you maintain your previous rate of buying. Also, the new price is quite literally loose change so it's almost trivial to buy on a whim, just like a coffee or a soda.

However, another great conspiracy theory is that because it's weekly now and you can't subscribe to it, there's an incentive to visit a store often, and hopefully grab a few new releases too before the same money is spent on movies, fast food and playstation. I think the saturday release date conveniently coincides with new, shiny minis.

When it comes to Visions...I honestly don't know what's the deal. Something to subscribe to and browse in your Playboy mansion if you can't be bothered with regular gaming and impulse buying any more? Slightly more subtle visions for getting back into the hobby or starting a new project? Just an easy way to produce more content in a joint-language format, hoping that enough people will buy it in addition to WD? No idea. It looks very odd to me, based on that first peek.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 30, 2014, 06:28:08 PM
So everyone seems to love marines and buys them (I even collected an army... For about 6 months before selling them off) surely tournaments and regular games must be rather strange with marines fighting marines. People that buy other armies must get people clambering to play them.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 30, 2014, 07:55:06 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on January 30, 2014, 06:20:51 PM
However, another great conspiracy theory is that because it's weekly now and you can't subscribe to it, there's an incentive to visit a store often, and hopefully grab a few new releases too before the same money is spent on movies, fast food and playstation. I think the saturday release date conveniently coincides with new, shiny minis.

Not a conspiracy theory at all. They want to push people into stores and this is a pretty good way to do it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 30, 2014, 08:56:37 PM
I saw this rumour today that GW is melting down the rest of their metal stock:

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?41148-GW-Begins-the-quot-Great-Smelt-quot

Quote
Word today is that truckloads containing literally metric tons of metal miniatures have pulled away from GW HQ, headed for a date with a furnace. The entire stock is to be smelted down and sold off on the metals markets.

Look for any remaining stocks of metal models to disappear shortly from the website.

GW's era of metal miniatures is over.

I dunno about you, but I can envision some sort of scene like the one from 'The Italian Job' where thieves chase down the truck full of precious metal in souped up cars...  keep an eye out for that truck! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 30, 2014, 09:24:51 PM
Quote from: Timbor on January 30, 2014, 08:56:37 PM
I dunno about you, but I can envision some sort of scene like the one from 'The Italian Job' where thieves chase down the truck full of precious metal in souped up cars...  keep an eye out for that truck! lol

What system should I use to game this scenario? Pulp Alley, Infinity, Combat Zone? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 30, 2014, 09:25:39 PM
It will be easier when they retire finecast. Just open the curtains on a sunny day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on January 30, 2014, 10:21:47 PM
Quote from: Timbor on January 30, 2014, 08:56:37 PM
I dunno about you, but I can envision some sort of scene like the one from 'The Italian Job' where thieves chase down the truck full of precious metal in souped up cars...  keep an eye out for that truck! lol

You do the driving and Ill ride shotgun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 31, 2014, 04:09:11 AM
That seems really stupid. The fan-friendly thing to do would be a fire-sale, but of course not, no.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 31, 2014, 07:08:48 AM
They burn all of their remaindered Black Library novels too.......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 31, 2014, 09:07:04 AM
Well, my subscription has just ended. I thought it had a month to go, but got another letter telling me it was done. I had seriously considered resubscribing, as they were still offering the subs at old WD rates (presumably this will change soon). However, having watched that video, I am incredibly glad I didn't bother :D

200+ pages of badly composed and poorly laid out photographs with virtually no text. I can't see this enticing new folk into "The Hobby" either, as they don't seem to explain what anything is at any point.

Regarding the metal rumour, looks like I have a couple of things to try and buy over the weekend.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: smokezombie on January 31, 2014, 11:53:13 AM
Quote from: joroas on January 31, 2014, 07:08:48 AM
They burn all of their remaindered Black Library novels too.......


Stunned if this is true. What is the rationale behind that and when has book burning ever been good?!

I'm not doubting you. Just....shocked.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 31, 2014, 11:55:21 AM
OH! This is true, I rang and asked if I could have them for my school library, they said no and then burnt them.........
What a waste.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 31, 2014, 12:04:03 PM
Taking the 'sale' out of a fire sale. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 31, 2014, 12:15:32 PM
All reasons why I avoid GW to this day....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on January 31, 2014, 01:02:43 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on January 30, 2014, 05:05:54 PM
GW has certainly done a lot of odd things over the years, and most could be explained as having some sort of rationalized (albeit misguided or not popular) business decisions.

I just don't 'get' this new White Dwarf format stuff. Why?

I just can't fathom how this can sell to any market group except perhaps illiterates with oodles of money segment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 31, 2014, 03:17:20 PM
Quote from: joroas on January 31, 2014, 07:08:48 AM
They burn all of their remaindered Black Library novels too.......

I suspect that someone misspoke. They probably pulped them as is typical in the book market.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 31, 2014, 05:16:29 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on January 30, 2014, 09:24:51 PM
What system should I use to game this scenario? Pulp Alley, Infinity, Combat Zone? :)

Pulp Alley. Vehicle rules are coming  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 31, 2014, 06:58:30 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 31, 2014, 03:17:20 PM
I suspect that someone misspoke. They probably pulped them as is typical in the book market.

Pulped fiction?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 31, 2014, 07:27:33 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 31, 2014, 06:58:30 PM
Pulped fiction?

You're starting to get a reputation you know  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 31, 2014, 07:52:38 PM
Nope, they was burnt......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 31, 2014, 08:18:59 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 31, 2014, 07:27:33 PM
You're starting to get a reputation you know  ;)

Story of my life.

I don't like the destruction of books and I don't like waste. The thought of something someone will want being willfully destroyed just angers me. What a pointless waste.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 31, 2014, 08:23:59 PM
Quote from: joroas on January 31, 2014, 07:52:38 PM
Nope, they was burnt......

Really? I thought you were joking. Really, burning?

Even in ass-backwards Kansas people donate books for pulping into mulch or something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 31, 2014, 08:33:48 PM
Is it wrong that I'm not in the least bit surprised? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on January 31, 2014, 10:15:37 PM
Hmm, cutting the suit tighter and getting rid of more difficult assets. Gee, if I wasn't such an idiot I'd say that they're artificially strenghtening the share value and are readying themselves for a sale...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on January 31, 2014, 10:37:25 PM
I think you probably find that the reason for NOT having a fire sale is they are going to sell the same products but in a different format. Metal for plastic, paper for PDF. The old classic metal minis for example were turned into finecast.  They probably don't want you getting something cheap that they can sell to you for an inflated price later!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 31, 2014, 11:29:16 PM
So a bloke at the club (not me, honest!) got copies of both new mags and I...er...happened to catch a glimpse...

WD: Pretty similar to the previous version, only thinner. New releases, basic painting guides, stats for one special character, a couple of columns or other blurb. No battle report this time. I'd say it's largely what you'd expect as a GW gamer/collector. (If you aren't either, why are you browsing bloody WD in the first place?)

Visions: Still a bit baffling. Boatloads of pictures, really. Little else. The first 50 pages were studio tyranids from a zillion angles. The last 50 were the same. First shown alone, then in totally staged action shots fighting orks, (ultra)marines, chaos and so on. Inbetween there was actually surprisingly plenty of GD and custom army showcase stuff. Forge World too, which was sort of interesting as well. You don't see those in every box cover, and they're doing better weathering etc. on them. Finally, there was some obligatory LotR and a few conversion articles, if you dare to call those four lines of text per page in three languages an article.

The smaller page size of Visions is a mixed bag. On one hand, you'd like to have larger photos in a mag which is effectively only about photos. Some larger scenes are rotated, spread over two pages, or even fold out to four. None of those are particularly convenient for viewing. On the other hand, a mini on a flat brown slottabase doesn't really look good blown up to full or even half page size. Especially studio's standard army paintjobs aren't really interesting or detailed enough for that.

If you don't like bog standard studio tyranids (or whatever is the army of the month) and can't get excited about the "battle scenes", that's about 100 pages wasted right there. Then again, there's still over 100 remaining and some of it is quite neat unless you're categorically against all things GW. (Why are you browsing a mag called "Warhammer Visions" then?) Because there's no text to speak about, no real effort is required going through the whole thing. On positive note, there are hardly any ads as in "buy this box for 40e". Surely there are 236 pages of pics of Citadel minis without price tags but shouldn't come as a surprise.

To be honest, I would have preferred keeping WD thick and monthly with all those studio promo pics of latest armies there, and a thin mag of GD/FW stuff at 3e. I just can't see myself shelling out 9e for too many photos of box cover minis with a few unseen gems buried inbetween. Nevertheless, take a look yourself and draw your own conclusions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 31, 2014, 11:32:03 PM
I'll have a shufty tomorrow if they're in WHSmiths. Not going in the GW though  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 01, 2014, 12:41:42 AM
New dwarfs are in now. Didn't realise that the trollslayers are still in metal.

Anyone think the new dragon slayer looks like Obelix with a Mohawk?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sardoo on February 01, 2014, 02:28:52 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on January 30, 2014, 05:14:39 PM
I have to admit as a decision I hate it. I stopped buying white dwarf when it become £5.50 the last format change, I was reluctant enough to buy it £4.50 even, but at £7 for a visions which is just a load of photos and £2.50 for a 35 page magazine of stuff i can read on their website they must be having a laugh. i want ARTICLES ON GAMING MODELLING AND PAINTING not what new over priced models they have out and a bunch of pretty pictures. But than there are people out there who will buy it religiously which means they dont care about the loss of other custom.

This is just my opinion though...

Totally agree. Just wrote to GW asking them to cancel my subscription to White Dwarf. This change wasn't asked for nor is it wanted/needed in my opinion. They're just trying to soak around £124 a year out of readers for the slimmed down, got-to go-to the-workshop-every-Saturday-to-get-it version of WD. The Visions magazine is worthless as it's just a collection of pictures that you could only replicate if you had a lottery win to buy all the figures.

I've not always agreed with the "Evil Empire" view of GW that's around these days as I've had a lot of fun with their products over the years but, sadly, they've completely lost me as a customer over this  one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: knoxville on February 01, 2014, 02:59:12 PM
My copies arrived in the mail today. WD is an interesting mix, though I cannot image that they'll keep printing this for long, I am sure it's just the predecessor of a purely digital format. Visions is actually quite good, finally there are some high res detail shots of Eavy Metal painting. I don't care about any text, so it's more or less what I hoped for.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 01, 2014, 04:28:55 PM
It was wrapped in plastic so I didn't bother  :?

Does this effect anyone else (I would imagine that it does) that if you can't flip through then you don't buy?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 01, 2014, 04:34:11 PM
I rarely buy a mag I can't peruse first. How do I know if I want it if I can't see what's in it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on February 01, 2014, 04:40:43 PM
Quote
It was wrapped in plastic so I didn't bother  Confused

Does this effect anyone else (I would imagine that it does) that if you can't flip through then you don't buy?

Was it on the top shelf with the other magazines about plastic photo-shopped models?  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on February 01, 2014, 05:03:08 PM
A magazine with painting guides, modelling guides, terrain building, scenarios rules and the like would be intresting to me. Even as someone who has given up buying anything from GW besides the odd pot of paint that kind of magazine content would be intresting me. I dont however want to pay for the privilege of being advertised too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 01, 2014, 06:18:16 PM
Quote from: joroas on February 01, 2014, 04:40:43 PM
Was it on the top shelf with the other magazines about plastic photo-shopped models?  ;D

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on February 02, 2014, 03:53:40 AM
Quote from: joroas on February 01, 2014, 04:40:43 PM
Was it on the top shelf with the other magazines about plastic photo-shopped models?  ;D
lol
Oh dear, Bibbly!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 02, 2014, 05:21:36 AM
So with only a few dwarfs shown so far do you think next week will show a few more being released for preorder? Giving them something to fill up the weekly mag with?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Johnno on February 03, 2014, 03:01:56 AM
I bought both. I wanted to see what the hype was about.
I feel they should have kept WD as it was.

Visions is simply a picture book. Maybe 3 lines of text per page.
The Golden Demon/Blanchitsu/Army of the Month spreads etc were good. 100 pages of Tyranids not so much. Probably even if you like Tyranids.
I guess I'd get it again when it relates to an army that I have an interest in. Otherwise no.

The new much thinner WD was simply that. Thinner, not much substance. New dwarves, stats and painting for the dwarves. Not worth the time or money to collect every week. Thankfully my subscription expired last November.

Yes it was wrapped in plastic but most WD's have been in the last little while. My local store has a copy you can peruse though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 03, 2014, 12:21:40 PM
Quote from: Johnno on February 03, 2014, 03:01:56 AM
My local store has a copy you can peruse though.

Don't worry.
Whoever is responsible for that lapse will probably be terminated before you return.
 :D


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on February 03, 2014, 12:29:42 PM
I cannot see them finding enough material to fill that many publications. It will have more user content, player armies etc, which will be nice to see, but there are only so many to take pictures of. And they have Fb and their blog for that too!!

Cheers
Matt

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 03, 2014, 11:13:33 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on February 03, 2014, 09:24:26 PM
That there is a tabletop game is usually news to them.

That's quite interesting  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 03, 2014, 11:22:23 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on February 03, 2014, 11:13:33 PM
That's quite interesting  :)

I actually find it difficult to believe given how much GW advertises their miniatures in books and games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 04, 2014, 01:58:39 AM
Same people that think of Final Fantasy and video games when they hear RPG.

No lie, one guy even had a Horus Heresy art book and had never seen a figure, or claimed not to have.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on February 04, 2014, 02:12:51 AM
on a sidenote "Games Workshop" and "Warhammer" got mentioned in the Brian Keene Novel "Castaways"
gave me a good Laugh when i read that Passage  lol lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 04, 2014, 05:31:32 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 03:33:27 PM
Urm ... yes ...

Yeah, but do you print books or do you print army rosters and airport boarding passes? ;)

I print stuff at home meself. I got an Epson PX650 printer a few years ago so I could print off relatively decent reference photos I found online, on proper photo paper an' all. It hasn't stopped me buying decent books on the given subject or clipping glossy magazines for the 'morgue' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgue_file). Maybe it will, the way print seems to be going, but I'm still sceptical.

Quote from: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 04:32:17 PM
It isn't a legitimate comparison. Printer manufacturers make their money from ink and not printers. Hence the ridiculous price and the attempts to add DRM to printer cartridges. 3D printer manufacturers make their money from selling you a printer.

So who sells you the 3D 'ink'?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 05:50:53 PM
Quote from: Vermis on February 04, 2014, 05:31:32 PM
Yeah, but do you print books or do you print army rosters and airport boarding passes? ;)

Mostly just photos of Kate Winslet and Holly Willoughby.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 04, 2014, 06:53:18 PM
Anyway, back to GW...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 07:07:35 PM
I really do wonder whether GW's policies are part of a well planned strategic overhaul or just random ideas from Fanboy think-tanks. I applaud them for making changes, which really have been needed for a while, but I for one cannot really see how the magazine changes are going to benefit them.

But what do I know, the only business I run consists of me (and my accountant I suppose ... the missus).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 07:38:21 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 04, 2014, 07:00:51 PM
How this will effect GW?

Lowers the cost of entry to producing miniatures. 3D sculpting has exploded in just a few years and a lot of that has to do with 3D printing. There are combo units coming out that are scanners and printers in one system. Drop in your Marine sprue, scan and then print.

I think the biggest threat to GW is that this allows smaller competitors to create figures and produce them in numbers that they wouldn't have been able to before. It also opens them up to sculptors who may be geographically distant but able to deliver figures digitally. Look at the number of companies producing everything from 6mm to 54mm figures in a range of genres.

At the moment, outside of terrain and tokens I don't see myself printing anything gaming related but the growth of companies working via 3D and 3D printing keeps getting bigger each year.

Take Secret Weapon miniatures for example. They designed and are producing 3D sculpted terrain boards similar to the Realm of Battle boards that GW did. A small company with a digital sculptor sends 3D files to a manufacturer who builds moulds and then creates hard plastic terrain tiles.

Suddenly GW has competition in a very expensive market from a small company that wouldn't have been able to do this five years ago.

GW is a big player in a very small market and when your smaller competitors can suddenly scale production to meet yours you have issues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 09:36:08 PM
It might be we see them going the Warlord Games route and buying up the small companies to reduce competition in niche areas.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on February 04, 2014, 09:38:40 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 09:36:08 PM
niche areas.

It's called "specialist Games"  ;) lol and we all know what happens to that Stuff  >:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 09:36:08 PM
It might be we see them going the Warlord Games route and buying up the small companies to reduce competition in niche areas.

Can't see it happening. No other companies make products that fit into the company. I think they'd be more likely to expand to expand their moves into video games and other content
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on February 04, 2014, 09:38:40 PM
It's called "specialist Games"  ;) lol and we all know what happens to that Stuff  >:D

And Warhammer Historical and their Dark Industries(?) RPG publisher.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 10:04:44 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 07:38:21 PM

Suddenly GW has competition in a very expensive market from a small company that wouldn't have been able to do this five years ago.

GW is a big player in a very small market and when your smaller competitors can suddenly scale production to meet yours you have issues.

Quote from: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 09:39:24 PM
Can't see it happening. No other companies make products that fit into the company. I think they'd be more likely to expand to expand their moves into video games and other content

I'm confused.

(http://phillbarron.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/confused.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 10:08:03 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 10:04:44 PM
I'm confused.

Care to explain why?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 10:15:58 PM
You say suddenly GW has competition from a small company.

Then you say you can't see any small companies .... aaah, I see what you're saying.

I think the premise is that you assume they would buy up a company because they're interested in selling their product? Oui?

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, all I'll say is that a company can also buy up a smaller company in order to stop them producing their product.

Sometimes it's just cheaper and easier than trying to compete.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 10:19:49 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 10:15:58 PM
I think the premise is that you assume they would buy up a company because they're interested in selling their product? Oui?

I can't see them buying a small company or a small competitor because they only sell products for their own IP and none of the technology that people are using is unique. People are using the same tech as them its just that it has a larger impact for a smaller company than it does for GW.

Historical manufacturer A can buy historical manufacturer B to expand their range of figures but GW is the sole source of 40K and WFB miniatures. Its not like you play 40K and buy your official Guard figures from Hasslefree. There are a lot of companies like Avatars of War and Gamezone that make figures that can be used in their games but I can't see what GW would gain from acquiring those firms.

And given how many internal divisions they have axed I can't see that their plans currently involve expanding their offerings or their wage bill
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 10:20:46 PM
I don't think you're getting it. Doesn't matter, not important.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 10:28:46 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 10:20:46 PM
I don't think you're getting it. Doesn't matter, not important.

I don't agree with the proposition that unfriendly takeovers of companies happen in the hobby.

Quote from: Cubs on February 04, 2014, 10:15:58 PM
I'm not accusing anyone of anything, all I'll say is that a company can also buy up a smaller company in order to stop them producing their product.

Can you name any companies in this industry that have done this? I'm not aware of any.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on February 04, 2014, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 10:28:46 PM
Can you name any companies in this industry that have done this? I'm not aware of any.

errm,wrong Forum Zack you should raise this question on Frothers  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 04, 2014, 11:18:26 PM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on February 04, 2014, 07:00:27 PM
while i haven't seen the WD/Visions Mag myself,here's a review,doesn't look that much visionary to me  :?

http://taleofpainters.blogspot.de/2014/02/review-white-dwarf-weekly-and-warhammer.html (http://taleofpainters.blogspot.de/2014/02/review-white-dwarf-weekly-and-warhammer.html)



I'm getting that impression as well  :?

They had a spate a few years ago when a Tale of Four Gamers reamerged and they also had a small Necromunda campaign going on with the 'studio' team, Doc butchers clinic and a fair amount of other none standard gaming, painting, converting going on.

That was worth buying, this does not seem to be  :(

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on February 04, 2014, 11:32:37 PM
I found the reviews by Jake Thornton (you know, the global editor of WD in '95-'97 and heavily involved in all things WH) interesting. He brings up some very valid points and facts such as repeated content.

http://quirkworthy.com/2014/02/01/white-dwarf-reborn-part-3/
http://quirkworthy.com/2014/02/02/white-dwarf-reborn-part-4/
http://quirkworthy.com/2014/02/04/white-dwarf-reborn-part-5/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 04, 2014, 11:40:00 PM
I'm still confused at to who the market is for Visions. The weekly WD makes sense (at least sense in terms of what I think they want to do with it) but the appeal of Visions is beyond me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 05, 2014, 02:46:04 AM
Quote from: Dolmot on February 04, 2014, 11:32:37 PM
I found the reviews by Jake Thornton (you know, the global editor of WD in '95-'97 and heavily involved in all things WH) interesting. He brings up some very valid points and facts such as repeated content.

http://quirkworthy.com/2014/02/01/white-dwarf-reborn-part-3/
http://quirkworthy.com/2014/02/02/white-dwarf-reborn-part-4/
http://quirkworthy.com/2014/02/04/white-dwarf-reborn-part-5/


Quote from: Quirkworthy
Thoughts

For me, Warhammer Visions is useless.
sums it up. It's like the Archie and Jughead of Warhammer magazines, without the insightful commentary that Archie and the gang come up with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 05, 2014, 06:34:30 AM
Quote from: Dolmot on February 04, 2014, 11:32:37 PM
I found the reviews by Jake Thornton (you know, the global editor of WD in '95-'97 and heavily involved in all things WH) interesting. He brings up some very valid points and facts such as repeated content.

http://quirkworthy.com/2014/02/01/white-dwarf-reborn-part-3/
http://quirkworthy.com/2014/02/02/white-dwarf-reborn-part-4/
http://quirkworthy.com/2014/02/04/white-dwarf-reborn-part-5/


Yes indeed, I read a couple of the comments and had no idea they were selling articles online for extra purchase  :-X

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 05, 2014, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on February 05, 2014, 06:34:30 AM
Yes indeed, I read a couple of the comments and had no idea they were selling articles online for extra purchase  :-X

Have you heard about the Great 6th Ed Tyranid Conspiracy? The latest Tyranid codex was released in January. Apparently genestealers and lictors have been downgraded and aren't much use anymore. (YMMV) But guess what's got new rules in the digital Tyranid 'dataslate' released a week or two later?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 05, 2014, 01:18:44 PM
Quote from: Vermis on February 05, 2014, 01:14:16 PM
Have you heard about the Great 6th Ed Tyranid Conspiracy? The latest Tyranid codex was released in January. Apparently genestealers and lictors have been downgraded and aren't much use anymore. (YMMV) But guess what's got new rules in the digital Tyranid 'dataslate' released a week or two later?

Nope, but it doesn't surprise me  ::)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on February 10, 2014, 09:18:39 AM
Quote from: Vermis on February 05, 2014, 01:14:16 PM
Have you heard about the Great 6th Ed Tyranid Conspiracy? The latest Tyranid codex was released in January. Apparently genestealers and lictors have been downgraded and aren't much use anymore. (YMMV) But guess what's got new rules in the digital Tyranid 'dataslate' released a week or two later?

Dataslates have been happening for a while now and aren't really tyranid specific. I think its being read as more of a conspiracy than it is. Charging extra £££ for things which could easily have been added to the £30 army books isn't on though!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on February 10, 2014, 09:41:35 AM
Well, the only main stream army I had held on to was my Dwarfs (TM) but the appearance of a new Army Book means that it will be destined for eBay on Thursday.  They'll get no more money from me......  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 10, 2014, 11:29:33 AM
You know I thought I was done harping on GW's design choices. Then that new dwarf bomber comes along. I'm sorry, does that belong on in fantasy or did it miss the boat on the summer of fliers for 40K? Didn't these things use to look like WW1 aircraft?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on February 10, 2014, 12:34:46 PM
I actually don't mind that  8)

Not for GW dwarves obvisouly but more of a kin to Spelljammer and things of that ilk.

I won't get one though  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 10, 2014, 01:02:42 PM
I'm sorry, but they are smoking premium crack in Nottingham...  $45.00 for a gyrocopter and $50 for 10 plastic dwarves?!!??!  Do they want people running away from their products!!?!  o_o ??? :o

I agree, the copter is bullocks.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on February 10, 2014, 01:42:01 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 10, 2014, 01:02:42 PM
I'm sorry, but they are smoking premium crack in Nottingham...  $45.00 for a gyrocopter and $50 for 10 plastic dwarves?!!??!  Do they want people running away from their products!!?!  o_o ??? :o

I agree, the copter is bullocks.  ;D

Saw a photo on another forum where someone had bought 6 boxes on release day......Its only insane if people actually buy it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 10, 2014, 01:56:17 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on February 10, 2014, 01:42:01 PM
Saw a photo on another forum where someone had bought 6 boxes on release day......Its only insane if people actually buy it!

Ah, the '1-click' rip off...er em 'deal' they advertise.  It's all just too 'high fantasy' for me....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 10, 2014, 03:46:55 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on February 10, 2014, 12:34:46 PM
Not for GW dwarves obvisouly but more of a kin to Spelljammer and things of that ilk.

With all the neffs going around here I'm surprised we haven't seen a spelljammer counterpart yet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 10, 2014, 05:16:36 PM
I think if you got a good start, with one of those dumpy bottomed gyrothings, you could totally jump a shark.

Wow.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 10, 2014, 06:20:46 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 10, 2014, 01:02:42 PM
$45.00 for a gyrocopter and $50 for 10 plastic dwarves?!!??! 

$55 and $60 respectively in Canada.

If you want you can get a flight of 6 bombers for $330.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod2380279a

No wonder so many 40K players are starting to play Bolt Action
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 10, 2014, 06:43:43 PM
The copters look more elvish to me (although rather squat and with runes) I think it's all the curvy lines etc on it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on February 11, 2014, 09:19:35 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on February 10, 2014, 06:20:46 PM
$55 and $60 respectively in Canada.

If you want you can get a flight of 6 bombers for $330.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod2380279a

No wonder so many 40K players are starting to play Bolt Action

40K? The gyrocopter is for fantasy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 11, 2014, 01:54:54 PM
I'd say that doesn't improve the situation. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 11, 2014, 02:04:18 PM
Quote from: Vermis on February 11, 2014, 01:54:54 PM
I'd say that doesn't improve the situation. lol

seriously lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 11, 2014, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on February 11, 2014, 09:19:35 AM
40K? The gyrocopter is for fantasy.

Prices in general, not a reaction to odd Dwarf sculpts  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on February 11, 2014, 07:59:11 PM
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/02/40k-unbeatable-list-lvo-winning-army.html

40K?  This story says it all! Was there any point turning up to play him?

Quote
40K - The Unbeatable List - The LVO Winning Army


 Over 200 participants dueled at the Las Vegas Open - This list defeated all comers going 8-0.  Behold the deadliest list in Warhammer 40,000 as of this last weekend!

 First off I would like to congratulate Reece for pulling off the LVO and champion Alex Fennel for pulling off a perfect 8-0 streak with the list.  Look for more detailed coverage of the LVO soon, but just note that Eldar appeared in half of the top 8 armies, with not a Tau to be seen. When you look at this list, remember that it faced other lists just as nasty and loaded for bear.

 And here it is: 1750pts of Eldar (and a smidge of Dark Eldar) lethality and objective controlling machine.

 It's fast, masters the psychic phase, can project incredible firepower at range (most of which ignores cover), boasts lots of scoring units, and an almost unkillable deathstar.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OqrELtOsXxQ/Uvm7PWt1SuI/AAAAAAAAcic/lDgMPaZJbmc/s1600/LVO-winner-1750.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 11, 2014, 08:21:46 PM
Is there anything finer than the BoLS net list? No; no, there's not. Now, little Timmy just needs to buy that exact army and be able to make all his friends cry! Attaboy, Timmy!

Seriously though, tournaments, net listing, BoLS, and the DickMove were all responsible for the drain of fun in GW based games.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 11, 2014, 08:54:38 PM
It reminds me of Gareth from 'The Office' boasting that he's memorised every 'Top Trumps' card in every pack, so he can win every time.

Would anyone over the (mental) age of 12 really get enjoyment from that sort of thing?

I don't mind points-based stuff, and I guess I'm not even opposed to tournaments as such, it's just the idea that people out there might just pop up and ruin your weekend ... it's why assault should not be a crime if it's against people who are really, really annoying.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 11, 2014, 09:27:04 PM
Quote from: grant on February 11, 2014, 08:21:46 PM
Seriously though, tournaments, net listing, BoLS, and the DickMove were all responsible for the drain of fun in GW based games.

They can drain the fun from any game. FoW, Dystopian Wars, Epic Armageddon...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 11, 2014, 09:38:25 PM
It wasnt just the price rises that drove me away from 40k, the 'tournament mentality' in the players at my local club made me give up 40k just as much.

It does depend on the individual, though.
Some years ago I went to the Blood Bowl grand tournament at the suggestion of a friend who really wanted to go.
I had my reservations at the time but thought 'what the hell, give it a go'.
Of my six opponents, only two of them seemed to have the 'tournament mentality' the other four were a good laugh and quite relaxed about things.
The two 'serious' players were really irritating though, and one of them received two 'yellow cards' during the weekend for being a complete twat.....says it all really.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on February 11, 2014, 09:44:29 PM
Quote from: grant on February 11, 2014, 08:21:46 PM
Is there anything finer than the BoLS net list? No; no, there's not. Now, little Timmy just needs to buy that exact army and be able to make all his friends cry! Attaboy, Timmy!

Seriously though, tournaments, net listing, BoLS, and the DickMove were all responsible for the drain of fun in GW based games.



Any and all games are ruined by that sort of thing. I never understood why anyone would get any enjoyment out of winning a game that wasn't even close due to the stats and general dickery that exploits loopholes in the rules and such. A small group I was a part of disbanded very quickly when, during a Mordheim game, the one power gamer among us decided to hide his noble Bretonnian Knights in a house and use his Longbowmen who were positioned on an impassible cliff (they started up there so it's ok right?) to shoot my unarmoured Kislevites to death before they could even get half way to the Knights. Very thematic eh? No doubt many a brave Knight would sit and let the peasants take the glory! Needless to say the group disbanded and no Mordheim was played with that guy again.

Another player who I had a 40k game with set the objective up on top of a building with no door - he was the only guy with flyers. Had to talk him out of that one. Every shooting phase was a 10 minute session of him slowly maximising his firepower and basically consulting his spreadsheet army list to do the absolute most damage. Fine for the fact it's a game, but by the end of the battle I felt I'd helped him with tax returns, not recreated an exciting sci fi battle with a memorable narrative or any dramatic moments.

You can see that same mentality creeping into other games as they gain popularity. I'm not going to bother but I'll bet the Bolt Action forum has list discussion and Tournament comp stuff being discussed. The extreme gamification of an actual war really leaves a sour taste in my mouth as well, but I suppose that's another topic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 11, 2014, 09:47:41 PM
Quote from: Mason on February 11, 2014, 09:38:25 PM
It wasnt just the price rises that drove me away from 40k, the 'tournament mentality' in the players at my local club made me give up 40k just as much.

I gave up playing FoW for the longest time for the same reason. Power gamers really can suck the life out of a game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 11, 2014, 09:50:00 PM
Quote from: Gibby on February 11, 2014, 09:44:29 PM
I'm not going to bother but I'll bet the Bolt Action forum has list discussion and Tournament comp stuff being discussed.

It does. I stopped visiting it for that very reason. People arguing the most gamey, dick-move type of "interpretations" of the rules to try to get a benefit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pseudopod on February 11, 2014, 10:25:35 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 11, 2014, 08:54:38 PM
It reminds me of Gareth from 'The Office' boasting that he's memorised every 'Top Trumps' card in every pack, so he can win every time.

Would anyone over the (mental) age of 12 really get enjoyment from that sort of thing?


Haha, reminds me of playing Magic the Gathering (shudders)..

That whole game is predicated on the tournament mentality, they have sports style coverage and onlookers tut when you make sub-optimal decisions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 11, 2014, 11:06:58 PM
Quote
First off I would like to congratulate Reece for pulling off the LVO and champion Alex Fennel for pulling off a perfect 8-0 streak with the list

"...and Rory Calhoun for parking in disabled spaces, and Kevin Jennington for his long-range urinal splashing, and James Flint for his sterling seal-clubbing work..."

 o_o o_o o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 11, 2014, 11:33:58 PM
Quote from: Gibby on February 11, 2014, 09:44:29 PM
You can see that same mentality creeping into other games as they gain popularity.

I'm starting to develop the mentality of avoiding hyped, flashy new games with an official mini range, especially if said range is very specifically tied to the rules. Other warning signs are a thousand kicksrarter promises (and attendant problems), card-deck mechanics, and illustrations/minis designed to seem like the more overblown superhero-comic/anime styles, if not more so; with or without surfboard swords, suitcase handguns, and chainmail bikinis.

I'm not sure the attitude's entirely justified, but after listening to Malifaux twitch players squawking about 'awesome' the misshapen new minis are and how I should dust off my handful of minis because 'they totally kick ass now' (I don't really know why people try to comfort me with that) it's the one I've got.

I think Zombicide contributes to it in a slightly different way. Guy I know went in on the kickstarter, and the group played a few games when he got his hands on it. It is a pretty good game, and I enjoyed it, but a month or two later the guy sold it on. I'm not entirely sure why, but I have a vague feeling he originally pledged because the game had 'kewl zombies' and 'badass characters' rather than being, y'know, any good; then the novelty wore off.

But, yes, on-topic: the same whole listbuilding, min-maxing, killer-kombo-disguised-as-tactics, playing-the-rules-not-the-game attitude that hangs heavy over the Warhammers (more than with other, more balanced games, I feel) puts me right off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on February 12, 2014, 01:46:44 AM
Here is my all-conquering unbeatable power-gasming list:

HQ : Belgae strongwill with a laspistol and neuro disruptor,

Unbeatable deathstar unit: The Deathstar.

Squad choice: a squad of eldar harlequins all with different weapons cos thats how the miniatures come even tho the army list in the red book says they all have to be the same.

Vehicle choice: A captured Rhino painted in funny colours.

Turn 1 disrupt all their neurons, turn two, witness the firepower of the fully operational deathstar and thats it. Repeat 8 times and claim your prize.

Edit: forgot the key detail - turn 3 finish them off with the laspistol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 12, 2014, 01:51:27 AM
On a related note, some youngsters are on Vermis' lawn and he would like them to get off it.  ;)

I don't mind card based systems. I think that they can be an interesting way to add some depth to the game without complicating the rules. Dreadball is a recent game in which they work well.

I think that the general issue is games that are just based on point systems. Any time you have this it eventually rewards the cheese monkeys that can work the system.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on February 12, 2014, 02:12:26 AM
At the very least some games attempt to balance their system so min maxing unbeatable lists is less of an option. GW doesn't even pretend to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 12, 2014, 02:30:50 AM
Quote from: Gibby on February 11, 2014, 09:44:29 PM
You can see that same mentality creeping into other games as they gain popularity. I'm not going to bother but I'll bet the Bolt Action forum has list discussion and Tournament comp stuff being discussed. The extreme gamification of an actual war really leaves a sour taste in my mouth as well, but I suppose that's another topic.

Of course Bolt Action is along the same path! Ex-GW guys. Including Alessio Cavatore... They started with tournaments right away, and the forum became a whole lotta net listing. Forget about history in a historical game - what matters is that a medic can man the halftrack MG42, and without a loaded unit, that halftrack can't shoot.

Did I mention I was a moderator over there until Bolt Action took over, and I sold all my BA stuff recently? It's true.

Anyway, GW tried desperately to get away from tournaments; BOLS embraced them and the popularity of the Leafblower was, I think, the beginning of the dreaded mindless net list. And you could almost hear a million fun souls dying a little bit, every time a net list was posted ...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 12, 2014, 02:33:07 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on February 12, 2014, 01:51:27 AM
On a related note, some youngsters are on Vermis' lawn and he would like them to get off it.  ;)

TL;DR: I generally prefer substance over style. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 12, 2014, 06:59:32 AM
If tournaments are promoted at all, I can't really fault people for using net lists. That's the way of competition.

So I much prefer games with no tournament scene.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on February 12, 2014, 10:33:22 AM
Two important points:
One: The LVO is considered to be an extreme tournament with every game being a knock-out, so it's not for those that play for a laugh. Thus, the list reflects that specific tourney, and perhaps not the game as a whole (well it does, but that's another discussion).

Two: Since third edition the codices have always been unbalanced, and in some match-ups, very unfair. The community reaction to this was the Composition system. While it differs from country to country, and also it's implication and purpose, it's generally used to balance the weaker codices against the strong ones, and usually ban cheesy lists.

More or less.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 13, 2014, 02:53:38 AM
I was just browsing the GW site. The Dwarfs are quite nice, and I was wistfully checking them out. As usual, they look awesome until the price is considered. :(

Oh, and I still think the gyrocopter is a big old flying turd.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 13, 2014, 03:16:15 AM
Quote from: grant on February 13, 2014, 02:53:38 AM
I was just browsing the GW site. The Dwarfs are quite nice, and I was wistfully checking them out. As usual, they look awesome until the price is considered. :(

Maybe it is the painting but the characters all look a little soft. Not really crisp details at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on February 13, 2014, 05:58:29 AM
I really don't like the dwarf's I have seen from the new GW releases. Even without the high prices I probably wouldn't want most of them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 13, 2014, 09:04:58 AM
I like that the LOTR & Hobbit dwarfs (dwarves?) are actually relatively athletic looking whilst still being stocky, instead of the round tubs with limbs that WH dwarfs (dwarves?) turned into.

The necessity of keeping true to the movie proportions have made the LOTR models much more desirable to me with their realistic sculpting. I accept a little exaggeration most of the time in things like weapons, but when you look at an axe being held in one hand that you know would weigh as much as a steel safe, it's tough to engage with the model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 13, 2014, 09:45:38 AM
Agreed, it's just too bad their LoTR stuff is SO expensive!  My Otherworld collection was my big splurge this year....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 13, 2014, 05:19:02 PM
 lol ;D lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on February 19, 2014, 02:52:36 AM
Hope you guys don't mind me posting this here, but it's GW related... Someone on a portuguese forum found this little gem on Ebay 

Quote
Custom Warhammer 40k Figure. Games Workshop Skull Warrior

(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/uj0AAOxyOypSYAQ~/$(KGrHqZ,!lQFJ!gYpJZbBSY!Q+I6l!~~60_12.JPG)

 And at least he didn't said it was "pro-painted":

Quote
Description
    
Unusual Warhammer model
This has a skull for a head, a gun for an arm, a space marine jetpack and a spear in its other arm. I believe the green bit is some kind of hardened plastercine which can be painted over, but would be hard to remove

Unfortunately, the seller is UK only :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on February 19, 2014, 06:58:33 AM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Custom-Warhammer-40k-Figure-Games-Workshop-Skull-Warrior-/121196250556?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item1c37dc05bc

Only £7.95 with free postage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on February 19, 2014, 07:26:38 AM
There could be an entire thread dedicated to Ebay monstrosities.
like this beauty.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-40k-Imperial-Guard-Leman-Russ-Battle-Tank-/221369915459?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item338aacd843
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 19, 2014, 10:05:27 AM
Looks like someone was taking the piss put of GW by trying to sell something that looked like a turd... Only someone bought it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on February 19, 2014, 10:26:06 AM
I think someone got angry about OOP models costing a bomb.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/warhammer-Flashing-OOP-1980s-exclusive-only-millions-of-fragments-ever-made-/281265237234?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item417cb6ecf2
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on February 19, 2014, 10:43:33 AM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/warhammer-snotling-OOP-1980s-exclusive-only-hundreds-of-thousands-ever-made-/281268507433?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item417ce8d329

a snip ta £2,000,000!!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 19, 2014, 10:56:13 AM
Quote from: Scurv on February 19, 2014, 10:34:40 AM
Looks like a little 4 legged beast of nurgle got to that tank and left its mark of chaos upon it.

lol lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 19, 2014, 12:58:19 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on February 19, 2014, 02:52:36 AM
Hope you guys don't mind me posting this here, but it's GW related... Someone on a portuguese forum found this little gem on Ebay

 lol I admire his optimism.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 19, 2014, 01:28:28 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on February 19, 2014, 07:26:38 AM
There could be an entire thread dedicated to Ebay monstrosities.

There was one going on Hateseer; pages and pages of sheer eBay stupidity. Also exposed many ripoff artists, quite a fair few recasters too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 20, 2014, 06:59:42 PM
Wow, is thought the 500 that I got for my 20 S1 Zombicide minis were expensive!  Yikes!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 20, 2014, 07:01:49 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on February 19, 2014, 07:26:38 AM
There could be an entire thread dedicated to Ebay monstrosities.
like this beauty.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-40k-Imperial-Guard-Leman-Russ-Battle-Tank-/221369915459?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item338aacd843

It's like their dog took a turd on this thing.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 21, 2014, 01:41:20 AM
I heard they give you a choice: flame or knife.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on February 21, 2014, 11:43:15 AM
So the main issue is that at "third party" would profit? So self-tattooing would be okay, as there is no money going to a third party?  ;D

Scurv, that's a hard one, as few pics are clearly labeled as being "red era". Are you looking for fantasy or 40k reference material, you could try googling on the contempory edition of the rules? (2nd for 40K and, what is it. 4th or 5th for fantasy?)
 I think your best bet, though, would be to go through a stack of old White Dwarfs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 21, 2014, 05:26:51 PM
Quote from: Scurv on February 21, 2014, 01:04:00 PM
It was the era of lots of red on the figs in very overblown highlights and green edged bases.

2nd ed 40k stuff.

The best era!

Do you have all the Codex books and such? They go for dirt cheap, and are great. Also, White Dwarf can be had for next to nothing for those years. I had a full set of 40k books and WD from RT all the way to 5th, all gone now ... It was something to behold! But I enjoyed the 2nd ed stuff the most - the game was the most fun, the most affordable, and had none of that corporate GW bullshit that exists today. Even by third the company and the game was changing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 22, 2014, 12:02:14 AM
Behold the new £30 plastic model.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/s403x403/1966884_522010117913383_1073328126_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 22, 2014, 12:04:50 AM
On the other scale of things, imperial knights (semi-titans) are now a thing in 40K scale. (I fret to call it 28mm)
I never got that deep into Knight fluff, any grognards who want to tell me what is wrong with this rendition of them?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 22, 2014, 12:42:24 AM
Quote from: Vermis on February 22, 2014, 12:02:14 AM
Behold the new £30 plastic model.


I find the use of a grandiose word like 'Behold'- paired with that picture- hilarious  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 22, 2014, 12:50:14 AM
Knights on a table that is 4' by 4'  lol they're not even trying any more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on February 22, 2014, 02:17:15 AM
i never did know what the story was with nights. some kind of hereditary thing, a bit like navigators i think.

I made one of my increasingly rare visits to their site today. The new thing looks like quite a good rendition of one in giant scale. If one were using a car park for battlefield, it might make some sense in a game.

I see they did their trademark 5 for the price of 5 job lot "deal".


Talking of GW web site, I was reading the other day about the GW official forum. Apparently they had one for a while some years ago but they pulled the plug on it. From the accounts of all the thread deleting and such that went on, my opinion of GW has reached new deapths...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on February 22, 2014, 02:29:21 AM
Quote from: Vermis on February 22, 2014, 12:02:14 AM
Behold the new £30 plastic model.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/s403x403/1966884_522010117913383_1073328126_n.jpg)

Looks like some kind of underwater helicopter.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 22, 2014, 02:48:39 AM
Quote from: YPU on February 22, 2014, 12:04:50 AM

... any grognards who want to tell me what is wrong with this rendition of them?

They are about half the height they should be based on the old Epic Knights.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 22, 2014, 03:10:43 AM
But then they'd probably tower over the 40k scale warhound titans. :D (was there an official measurement of the height of 'real life' knights?)

Gotta say, in a rare moment of GW positivity: I liked the idea of knights since I got into Epic (admittedly only with the last edition, but I've managed to scrape a few off ebay), cemented by Dan Abnett's Mechanicum book, and I think GW have done them justice with this new model. I only balk at the £85 price tag, so maybe I'll check on ebay or with a deep discounter when I'm feeling particularly rich.

I still think it's better value than the dwarf gyrocopter, though, and that's what that is, Weismonsters. ;) Mentioned a couple of pages back.

DrMathias: I did have second thoughts, but it was really the only choice for such an overhyped speck of styrene.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 22, 2014, 03:49:05 AM
I like the Paladin model. If I can get it for a decent discount I might grab one and paint it up as a display model for my work table.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 22, 2014, 07:31:11 AM
Quote from: Vermis on February 22, 2014, 03:10:43 AM
DrMathias: I did have second thoughts, but it was really the only choice for such an overhyped speck of styrene.

Agreed :)
I just wish you'd put an exclamation point after 'Behold', for effect. Or an animated gif with a curtain being pulled aside :)

Still smiling about that miniscule gyro copter.

Here's me feeling conflicted because I like the Imperial Knight a lot. How many gyro copters equal a knight, monetarily?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on February 22, 2014, 09:11:17 AM
I really love the new knights. Always have. And this verson really does justice to the old Epic ones. If I can find one at a decent price I might get one just for display. As I don't really play 40k.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 22, 2014, 09:16:11 AM
That 'Knight' is not a bad model, as it goes, but it does not say Imperial Knight to me as I remember the original models, which looked far clunkier and less like a mini-Titan.

They had much more character and reflected the fluff of Noble Houses maintaining their family traditions through the ages in a way that this model does not.

They felt much more like Bretonnnians-in-space before and I liked that.

Those and the Eldar versions had a certain charm....hmmmm.......does that mean an Eldar versions may be on the cards.

All that aside, that price is still fecking diabolical!
 :o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 22, 2014, 09:17:17 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on February 22, 2014, 07:31:11 AM
Agreed :)
I just wish you'd put an exclamation point after 'Behold', for effect. Or an animated gif with a curtain being pulled aside :)

Still smiling about that miniscule gyro copter.

Here's me feeling conflicted because I like the Imperial Knight a lot. How many gyro copters equal a knight, monetarily?

When you think about it that way the knight is a steal, two and a half gyro copters or one knight? The knight is nice but too big for me (I know it's meant to be big but I just don't have the space for it) unless I kicked the wedding photos off the book shelf and spent the next year sleeping on the couch, which incidentally would let me see the knight even more  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on February 22, 2014, 03:16:28 PM
I thought 'knights' were the exodite Eldar???  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 22, 2014, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: Argonor on February 22, 2014, 03:16:28 PM
I thought 'knights' were the exodite Eldar???  ???

IIRC they were released as part of the same expansion that had the Exodites and Eldar Knights.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on February 22, 2014, 03:23:56 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on February 22, 2014, 03:20:00 PM
IIRC they were released as part of the same expansion that had the Exodites and Eldar Knights.

I remember the Eldar Knights from Epic, I can't recall having ever heard of Imperial ones, before... well, I'm not really into that universe, anymore...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 23, 2014, 02:41:50 AM
Quote from: Scurv on February 23, 2014, 12:54:15 AM
the thing that gets me about the knight price is I know you could get a decent robot thingie by kitbashing a toy for about $25 in total.

I will be happy to see what your $25 Transformer based "Knight" will look like. Have at it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 23, 2014, 07:23:30 AM
"1 step and it's over the other side of the battle field" size please  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on February 23, 2014, 08:21:05 AM
Quote from: Mason on February 22, 2014, 09:16:11 AM
That 'Knight' is not a bad model, as it goes, but it does not say Imperial Knight to me as I remember the original models, which looked far clunkier and less like a mini-Titan.

They had much more character and reflected the fluff of Noble Houses maintaining their family traditions through the ages in a way that this model does not.

They felt much more like Bretonnnians-in-space before and I liked that.

Those and the Eldar versions had a certain charm....hmmmm.......does that mean an Eldar versions may be on the cards.

All that aside, that price is still fecking diabolical!
 :o



In not so sure the price is THAT bad for this model! It's an 8" giant robot. It's looks fairly solid too. I see the Dreamforge Leviathan was $120 and its about the same size!

The other thing though........did you notice the COMPLETE LACK of skulls!!!!!!! I count 2 on the pics I seen!!! Do you think GW are maybe finally listening? Could this be a new start? On the other hand that dwarf Gyrocopter is just Shite!!!

I think the Knights a cracking model.......and it's the first GW model I've thought about buying in a loooooonnnng while!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 23, 2014, 10:20:25 AM
The model is nice, but the price tag a la GW is outrageous. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 23, 2014, 03:24:57 PM
Quote from: Scurv on February 23, 2014, 07:59:18 AM

(http://www.highsnobiety.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Star-Wars-AT-AT-Dog-Costume.jpg)

Whippet. Whippet real good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 23, 2014, 11:33:24 PM
That's a terrible Whippet costume. No tracks and I only count two guns.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 24, 2014, 12:24:24 AM
Quote from: Scurv on February 23, 2014, 10:13:15 PM
how to break the unbreakable bond between man and beast. Dress it like a twat.  lol

getting back to this knight thing any scale shots of it next to a fig?


Haven't seen any; and in all seriousness, I think the Knight model is actually one of the best things GW has done in a very long time. I think it's not even prices stupidly. Shocking, that.

Now, don't get me wrong, I won't buy one, but I still appreciate that it is teh roxxor. Or whatever it is that the kids are saying today. Word.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 24, 2014, 12:58:34 AM
Quote from: Scurv on February 23, 2014, 10:13:15 PM
getting back to this knight thing any scale shots of it next to a fig?

From the GW website

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 24, 2014, 05:23:43 AM
It would kind of fit with the privateer press gargantuan miniatures.
As said from others. I like it but too big for my taste.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on February 24, 2014, 10:01:03 AM
I really like the new Knight model and as its available for £63 in London via Dark Sphere's shop, the price isn't too horrible. My main problem is that its less than 1/4 of the points in a "normal" 40K 2000 point game and requires an army to go with it! (or more knights, which GW is planning a codex for). If I could take one or two and be done with, then it'd be a sure buy, but as it is? Nope thanks. Especially as I can get two Infinity TAG's for the price of one discounted Knight.

GW release a game with nothing but Knights/Eldar Wraithknights (they already released it!)/Stompas knocking the crap out of each other  and I'd be all over it.

40K heading further into being Epic 28mm has no real interest for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 24, 2014, 10:39:44 AM
Quote from: Kitsune on February 24, 2014, 10:01:03 AM
GW release a game with nothing but Knights/Eldar Wraithknights (they already released it!)/Stompas knocking the crap out of each other  and I'd be all over it.
I could see the fun in writing something like that up!
But thinking about it I would probably just use Ganesha games SAMURAI ROBOTS BATTLE ROYALE for quick games or Mekton Zeta for deeply crunchy games. Actually I'm up for this, I'll provide the rules if you guys get the robots.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on February 25, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
I agree with others. If i had a wargames table the size of a swimming pool and but for the fact that i am boycotting GW for any number of reasons besides just price/quality issues, I would be keen on this model. It is more elegant than the knockoff titans i have seen and the price is quite in proportion to the size of the thing. They seem to be staying ahead of the game with the big plastic kits.

In terms of titans in games, i found that even in the old epic game it got a bit much. The space marine game had a nice game mechanic for vehicle formations and infantry, but the titans seemed to take away from the game rather than add to it. And when the Imperator titan came out, the game was broken. I had a nice characterful chaos army and i got tabled every single game by the damn thing.

At least im not bitter about it though  :'( :'(

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 25, 2014, 02:22:40 AM
When we first played the Apocalypse rules we did it on an 8' x 10' table. At the lower limits of the game that wasn't actually a bad table size and with that size a table the odd Gargant or Knight wouldn't be too bad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 25, 2014, 02:25:02 AM
Quote from: beefcake on February 24, 2014, 05:23:43 AM
It would kind of fit with the privateer press gargantuan miniatures.

I suspect that it is a bit bigger than those. The plastic means that they can keep the pose straighter. Compare the old metal Khador jacks and the new plastic ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on February 25, 2014, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on February 25, 2014, 02:25:02 AM
I suspect that it is a bit bigger than those. The plastic means that they can keep the pose straighter. Compare the old metal Khador jacks and the new plastic ones.

Its 6" tall, about the same as a current trygon and nowhere near as big as I thought the model was. Having had no problems with using a Trygon in my games, it'll fit easily on a 6X4 table.

I think PP big models might just pip it, but no owning one thats an eye guess from seeing other peoples.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 25, 2014, 08:59:09 AM
I thought it said 8" tall? Off to check...
Nope you're right 6", not as good a deal as I thought now  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on February 25, 2014, 09:39:25 AM
Quote from: beefcake on February 25, 2014, 08:59:09 AM
I thought it said 8" tall? Off to check...
Nope you're right 6", not as good a deal as I thought now  lol

They pulled a stealth change as it said 8" over the weekend. Overcompensating, as ever.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on February 25, 2014, 10:27:01 AM
But are those 6 inches true inches or GW's heroic scale inches?  lol
But seriously, that makes it chest high to a stompa... rather sad, seing how the old epic knights and stompas compared to each others.

Right now GW is just making the Dreamforge Leviathan look like a better deal.
I mean, the Knight is € 18 per inch... The Leviathan comes out at € 11 to 14 per inch, depending on where you buy it. Plus, it can actually look a stompa in the eye, like a Knight is supposed to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on February 25, 2014, 10:32:22 AM
It doesn't really matter if it is 6" or 8" it really comes down to girth and how you use it.

That is what I have been told anyways....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on February 25, 2014, 12:51:37 PM
Quote from: beefcake on February 25, 2014, 08:59:09 AM
I thought it said 8" tall? Off to check...
Nope you're right 6", not as good a deal as I thought now  lol

I agree with you that DIFFINATELY said 8" the first time I read it! I wonder how that would stand up to people's consumer rights? Is that false advertising?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on February 25, 2014, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: Andym on February 25, 2014, 12:51:37 PM
I agree with you that DIFFINATELY said 8" the first time I read it! I wonder how that would stand up to people's consumer rights? Is that false advertising?

Nah, its called a mistake.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on February 25, 2014, 05:02:59 PM
I dunno, getting your measurements wrong by 25% is quite an error is certain circles...
I'm just glad the staffer who made the error isn't a carpenter or contractor.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 26, 2014, 07:15:55 AM
Quote from: Kitsune on February 25, 2014, 09:39:25 AM
They pulled a stealth change as it said 8" over the weekend. Overcompensating, as ever.

????? WHAT?!? Were they using the wrong tape measure or was a chimp measuring it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 26, 2014, 08:34:06 AM
We all know that GW prices are ridiculous (well, we mostly agree on that...) but now I am going to propose something really radical for this thread.

How about we all start to say what we DO like about GW?

I am with the majority on this subject, having been a GW gamer and now no longer, but before I stopped playing GW games (mostly, as I will still play the occasional game of Mordheim) I was a fan of their systems and miniatures.

In fact, like many, it was GW that got me into the hobby in a big way in the first place.
I remember walking into the Rye Stamp and Hobby shop in Peckham in 1985 with instructions to buy myself some stamps, as that was the hobby that I was supposed to be getting into, and instead, seeing cabinet after cabinet of metal miniatures looking back at me.

That was it for the stamps, I can tell ya!

I ended up going home with a box of ECW figures as they were on sale in the 10p box.
I had no real idea what they were, I just slapped paint on them....badly.
That did not matter, though, as I was soon back again, but this time I was eyeing up the fantasy figures.

And you all know the story from there.....fantasy figures, Warhammer, 40k and Blood Bowl (first edition) and Battlecars all followed swiftly.

Add to that the roleplaying in the worlds of Judge Dredd, Golden Heroes and Middle Earth, GW was responsible for a lot of really good times for me and my mates.

I am sure that for a lot of you it was the same.

I was fortunate enough to become involved in the hobby in what I consider the 'Golden Years' of GW, the eighties and nineties.
I may not like the direction that the company has gone in for the last decade or so, but without GW I would not be still enjoying this wonderful hobby now.

I am sure a lot of you also have many fond memories of playing their games.

So, I have to say: Thank You Games Workshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 26, 2014, 08:35:54 AM
Quote from: Mason on February 26, 2014, 08:34:06 AM


How about we all start to say what we DO like about GW?



I thought most people were actually saying that they liked the new Knight miniature (Maxiature?) I like it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 26, 2014, 08:39:01 AM
Quote from: beefcake on February 26, 2014, 08:35:54 AM
I thought most people were actually saying that they liked the new Knight miniature (Maxiature?) I like it.

Well, in general, this thread does tend to end up in a bit of a 'GW bash'. so I thought that I would look for some positive things to say, and ask others for their good points about the company....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on February 26, 2014, 09:28:37 AM
I was 11 when I attended a hobby fair at my local folk hall. I didn't know it was on. I was at the park with some friends and I wandered in wondering what the fair was. I only had £1 on me but I ended up buying a Grey Knight Terminator. The bloke who babysat for my siblings and I was into 40k and he told me what I'f bought. He'd just grown out of the hobby (like some people do ???) and gave me a box full of metal Space Marines and Eldar. All Rogue Trader stuff. I painted them horribly.  :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 26, 2014, 09:41:13 AM
Quote from: Mason on February 26, 2014, 08:39:01 AM
Well, in general, this thread does tend to end up in a bit of a 'GW bash'. so I thought that I would look for some positive things to say, and ask others for their good points about the company....


You're right there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 26, 2014, 09:53:22 AM
I once won a short essay contest with 'The Portal' magazine (it's a free download, available via WaMP), with something called 'The Acorn'. It was basically a wee bunch of words describing how it used to feel to go down to the local toyshop and buy a min with my sweaty 50p coin that represented my pocket money.

That feeling has never left me and nostlagia still motivates me now. I love toy soldiers. Citadel didn't start it (Arifix did) but they did fuel it. Aah, those weekends spent in the garage with my brother playing vast Warhammer (First Edition) games on a bit sheet of chipboard.

His Bugman's Rangers always shot down pretty much everything that trudged its weary way forward and then chopped up what was left. In fact I only ever won one game, because his guys took shelter inside a big fort and shut the door and I happened to have taken an Earth Elemental Wizard, who promply brought the whole thing down.

Citadel and Games Workshop have pushed the whole miniatures industry forward and forced other manufacturers to develop at a similar rate or be left behind. Their pioneers of the 80's and 90's have scattered their influence way beyond fantasy and sci-fi and we wouldn't have the same range or quality of products available today had they not been so determined to push the boundaries of making pretty toys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on February 26, 2014, 12:05:15 PM
I think, most of us have, at some point, given GW credit for the impact that it had on the world of gaming with miniatures. I know I did, for one, arguably probably a long time ago. The big problem is, that most of the good things it/they did, really also happened a long time ago.

I already collected and painted 1/72 plastics (napoleonics), but GW made me delve into the world of 28 mm gaming, for sure. I also collected quite a bunch of their miniatures and rules, but mostly before the coming of the internet, when nothing else was readily available. Even then, I think I only ever played one single game of Warhamster, and 2 (I think) games og 40K.

Thing is, the minis, fluff, and imagery appealed to me, the rules did not. Had my local games shop (which I ended op managing for a period of 5½ year) had other rulesets and minis to offer (or if the internet had appeared in full force a bit earlier), I think I might have been much more into the 28 mm hobby much earlier. As it came to happen, I had a long pause from it, going back to 1/72, until my brain fostered an urge to do something RPG-inspired/Call of Cthulhu-style/Indiana Jones flavoured gaming, and I started searching the internet and found the 'pulp'-gaming genre, and the Prof's websites showing all kinds of pulpy minis (that was even before this forum was created).

I still from time to time tried to re-evoke some interest in the 40K-univetse, but after a short burst of effort, I always turned away from a half-finished project.

I did collect almost every mini made for the LotR:SBG, and would have continued collecting stuff for the Hobbit, had the prices not sky-rocketed. I kind of like(d) the different approach of the rules, alhough they do not really contain an incentive to have individual models running around and fighting on their own, but favour ganging up.

I have now put all my 40K-stuff in a couple of big cardboard boxes in the garage (still thinking that I may use some of it for In the Emperor's Name), and only ever consider buying second-hand stuff, if I should need something for a project.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on February 26, 2014, 04:00:21 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on February 25, 2014, 10:32:22 AM
It doesn't really matter if it is 6" or 8" it really comes down to girth and how you use it.

That is what I have been told anyways....

I wont lie, since this is the first post of this page it made me think I had opened the wrong thread.....  :o

As for the new knight, I dont like it as its going down the route of 'bigger is better' which I do not like, forge world was always the one for the more specialist gear. Games workshop need to go back to when they had reasonable games and rules, especially the specialist games range ( i was a few weeks away from starting battlefleet gothic when they pulled the miniatures and the prices sky rocketted on ebay  ??? )

However I do still like their fluff and background/history and still model various aspects of both fantasy and 40,000. But I do buy online at giftsforgeeks.co.uk to get my stuff cheaper.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 26, 2014, 09:47:12 PM
News from a friend:

Quote from: pacobird
I hadn't done any research on the 40k MMO because it is an MMO in alpha and this is not my first rodeo, but I dug up an interview from last summer and apparently they're going to make the Orks the Free 2 Play faction, which is the best MMO-related idea I've heard in years

Holy shit! That's bloody brilliant if true.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 26, 2014, 09:56:11 PM
So orks are likely to outnumber all other factions and possibly attract a greater number of idle griefers and all the other dregs of the internet.

Very appropriate. Should be fun. Can I be a Bad Moon? :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 26, 2014, 11:02:18 PM
Quote from: Mason on February 26, 2014, 08:34:06 AM
How about we all start to say what we DO like about GW?

Your post sounds like what you liked about what GW was.

If you were a part of that "golden age" of GW gaming then the current company is a grand disappointment. Its like going back to see your teenage sweetheart and finding out that she is a scab-encrusted prostitute.

GW does quite a lot of things right, at least in terms of their game background and miniatures, but it has erected this paywall that effectively keeps most people out.

Which is probably why we still complain. They make some great toys and a great universe but make it too difficult to play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 27, 2014, 05:21:00 AM
Quote from: Vermis on February 26, 2014, 09:56:11 PM
So orks are likely to outnumber all other factions and possibly attract a greater number of idle griefers and all the other dregs of the internet.

Very appropriate. Should be fun. Can I be a Bad Moon? :D

You got that right, just like orcs should be.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 27, 2014, 08:36:16 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on February 26, 2014, 11:02:18 PM
Your post sounds like what you liked about what GW was.

If you were a part of that "golden age" of GW gaming then the current company is a grand disappointment. Its like going back to see your teenage sweetheart and finding out that she is a scab-encrusted prostitute.

GW does quite a lot of things right, at least in terms of their game background and miniatures, but it has erected this paywall that effectively keeps most people out.

Which is probably why we still complain. They make some great toys and a great universe but make it too difficult to play.

Pretty much sums up the way I feel about GW NOW.

Although to be fair, they do still produce some good stuff, it is just that, as time goes by, they do it less often.

In the 'Golden Age' I liked pretty much everything, and still do.
Nowadys there is less and less that I like.

I do still use their scenery and think most of their Fantasy stuff is good (not so keen on the 40k stuff) and still fancy the occasional figure, but the last of their figures that I acquired (not from them at their prices, I have to add) were the Ghouls and one of the Giant Ghoul-things, but that was over a year ago.

I also lament the loss of their old range of washes, as I LOVED them.
 :'( :'(

The only thing that I buy regularly now are the Horus Heresy novels as I am really enjoying them.

Enough to make me want to paint all my old skool 40k figures soon (ish)...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 27, 2014, 09:48:01 AM
Quote from: Mason on February 27, 2014, 08:36:16 AM

I also lament the loss of their old range of washes, as I LOVED them.
 :'( :'(

I loved the old Devlan Mud and have recreated it using inks mixed with Vallejo's black and brown glazes. Their glazes are the same sort of consistency as paints, but are much more slippery and translucent.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 27, 2014, 11:41:17 AM
According to Dakkadakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/493017.page) (and I've seen the same information in other places), the old washes are the same as certain Army Painter ones. From the Dakkadakka site

CitadelArmy Painter
GryphoneSoft Tone ink
DevlanStrong Tone ink
Badab blackDark Tone ink

I have looked for Strong Tone a couple of times, but haven't found a bottle yet, so can't comment on the validity of the above table

edit: a review of the army painter stuff can be found at Tale Of Painters (http://taleofpainters.blogspot.de/2012/02/review-army-painter-warpaints.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 27, 2014, 11:46:12 AM
No, they're definitely not. The inks are just that - inks. They are what I used to mix with the glazes to get the same effect as the old washes, with that slippery feel that worked so well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on February 27, 2014, 12:31:13 PM
I think they are the same for colour but not constancy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 27, 2014, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: carlos13th on February 27, 2014, 12:31:13 PM
I think they are the same for colour but not constancy.

I agree, close to the same colors, but not the same consistency.  The AP stuff I like a bit better.  It's nice to do outlining work.  Also note, the AP inks are very close in color to their 'dip' counterparts, but they are VERY different products.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 27, 2014, 12:51:00 PM
The Strong Tone is brown ink.

The Dark Tone is very very dark brown, almost black.

From what I recall, Devlan Mud was somewhere inbetween, but I confess my memory may well be mistaken.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on February 27, 2014, 12:59:17 PM
nope they aren't the same:Gryphone Sepia is much more yellowish than AP Soft Tone.
AP Strong Tone is darker than Devlan Mud
AP Dark Tone is very equally to Badab Black though

i moved to the Washes from Secret Weapon-never looked back  :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 27, 2014, 01:00:08 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 27, 2014, 12:51:00 PM
The Strong Tone is brown ink.

The Dark Tone is very very dark brown, almost black.

From what I recall, Devlan Mud was somewhere inbetween, but I confess my memory may well be mistaken.

Exactly!  I think the colors are meant to correspond to the Dip Shades as much as they could.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 27, 2014, 05:20:38 PM
Quote from: Mason on February 27, 2014, 08:36:16 AM
The only thing that I buy regularly now are the Horus Heresy novels as I am really enjoying them.

Ayup. Picked up the latest Eisenhorn/Ravenor book on Tuesday. Still waiting for Lords of Mars to turn up in paperback.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 27, 2014, 05:47:51 PM
I bought a hoard of pots of the old washes, especially Ogryn Flesh, Devlan Mud, and Gryphonne Sepia, all of which are nigh-irreplaceable to me. God knows what I'll do when the current supply runs out a few years down the road  :'(

I use them to do most of my skin painting (by careful layering of thin glazes) and all my techniques for that revolve around those old GW washes, especially their colour and consistency.

The Sepia does indeed have a critical yellow component and Devlan Mud is a bit of a dirty brown.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 27, 2014, 06:50:34 PM
 :'( My Devlan Mud ran out last weekend  >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Citizen Sade on February 27, 2014, 07:20:53 PM
I read somewhere that the Army Painter washes are from the same factory and use the same "recipe" as the old GW washes - Dark tone (Badab Black), Strong tone (Devlan Mud), Light tone (Gryphonne Sepia). Can anyone confirm of deny this or even simply that they are an acceptable substitute?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on February 27, 2014, 07:37:18 PM
Quote from: Citizen Sade on February 27, 2014, 07:20:53 PM
I read somewhere that the Army Painter washes are from the same factory and use the same "recipe" as the old GW washes - Dark tone (Badab Black), Strong tone (Devlan Mud), Light tone (Gryphonne Sepia). Can anyone confirm of deny this or even simply that they are an acceptable substitute?




Well someone doesn't read the posts prior to post em do they! ;)

I've a got a stash of devlan, badab etc in my paint collection,  not an inexhaustible supply but enough to do going on with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 27, 2014, 08:32:39 PM
I repeat, I use inks (Army Painter 'Strong Tone' and 'Dark Tone') plus Vallejo's brown and black glazes to make a more than acceptable substitute for the old Devlan Mud. I advise anyone to give it a go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 27, 2014, 08:33:58 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 27, 2014, 08:32:39 PM
I repeat, I use inks (Army Painter 'Strong Tone' and 'Dark Tone') plus Vallejo's brown and black glazes to make a more than acceptable substitute for the old Devlan Mud. I advise anyone to give it a go.

Do you go 50/50 on the Vallejo?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Citizen Sade on February 27, 2014, 11:52:33 PM
Quote from: Commander Vyper on February 27, 2014, 07:37:18 PM
Well someone doesn't read the posts prior to post em do they! ;)
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. You think I read all this crap? I just click "Show unread posts since last visit"  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 28, 2014, 06:54:30 AM
Quote from: Cubs on February 27, 2014, 08:32:39 PM
I repeat, I use inks (Army Painter 'Strong Tone' and 'Dark Tone') plus Vallejo's brown and black glazes to make a more than acceptable substitute for the old Devlan Mud. I advise anyone to give it a go.

Proportions, man! We need proportions!  >:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 28, 2014, 08:34:05 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 27, 2014, 08:33:58 PM
Do you go 50/50 on the Vallejo?
Quote from: FramFramson on February 28, 2014, 06:54:30 AM
Proportions, man! We need proportions!  >:D

Ah, now you've got me. I just sort of muck about with it until it looks right. Less glaze than ink though, maybe about 20%? ish?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 28, 2014, 09:46:32 AM
I've posted this link before, but it's worth mentioning again

http://www.awesomepaintjob.com/index.cfm/resources.recipes

has instructions for making custom washes

I haven't tried this yet myself (an admission which didn't end up too well last time ;D), so no guarantees
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 28, 2014, 11:40:19 AM
Games Workshop Amsterdam closed...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: knoxville on February 28, 2014, 11:54:36 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 28, 2014, 11:40:19 AM
Games Workshop Amsterdam closed...

Which one?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 28, 2014, 12:24:50 PM
The only one... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on February 28, 2014, 12:37:44 PM
Well it's not like they're aren't many places in Dam where after a few minutes you'll be seeing giant goblins and talking trees! ;) o_oMo
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: knoxville on February 28, 2014, 02:45:25 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 28, 2014, 12:24:50 PM
The only one... :D

Ah OK, I knew about the one at Rokin (?) street, but according to GWs website there are 2 (west and south), so I was wondering which one it was. They always had some nice stuff on display, I am hoping they'll reopen somewhere soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lowtardog on February 28, 2014, 02:51:39 PM
There used to be one in Haarlem up the road?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 28, 2014, 04:16:20 PM
I just got round to trying the newish GW technical paint for verdigris. Nihilakx (or something) oxide. That stuff is awesome. I'm sure there are other, better, ways to do it but this stuff is fast, a thick wash like substance and it dries matte. Works very quickly and great for what I was trying to achieve on my OGAM Greek undead. What,you thought I was actually painting GW models with them?  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 28, 2014, 06:38:12 PM
Quote from: Lowtardog on February 28, 2014, 02:51:39 PM
There used to be one in Haarlem up the road?

Haarlem is not quite 'up the road' lol  I'm not sure about Zuid, but the Rokin was the only one in the Centrum that I knew of.  Now there's a woman's clothing store there and the Imperial Eagles look somewhat out of place...or very chic...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 28, 2014, 09:19:22 PM
Quote from: zemjw on February 28, 2014, 09:46:32 AM
I've posted this link before, but it's worth mentioning again

http://www.awesomepaintjob.com/index.cfm/resources.recipes

has instructions for making custom washes

Correct me if I am wrong but those are the washes that Secret Weapon now produces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 28, 2014, 11:10:39 PM
New knight fluff books out. Here's what one says  lol
Quote
The Imperial Knight Companion is packed with everything you need to know about the rich and fascinating history of the Imperial Knights. From examples of how Knight heraldry is created and changes over time to full colour illustrations of Imperial, Adeptus Mechanicus and Freeblade Knight colour schemes.

This 144 page large hardback is a true collectors companion. Beautifully written and stunningly presented you will find yourself pouring over its pages time and time again. Prepare to be inspired.

Warning: exposure to this book may result in the overwhelming desire to collect, build and paint many Knights! 


Love that last line!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 01, 2014, 02:09:41 AM
I wouldn't mind having a look at that book. (I already have the Uniforms and Heraldry books for Empire and Skaven. :? ) I get that feeling about a lot of GW products. But I know this one'll end the same way - one look at the price-tag...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 01, 2014, 06:11:25 AM
Quote from: Vermis on March 01, 2014, 02:09:41 AM
I wouldn't mind having a look at that book. (I already have the Uniforms and Heraldry books for Empire and Skaven. :? ) I get that feeling about a lot of GW products. But I know this one'll end the same way - one look at the price-tag...

Yeah, it turns out, down her in NZ, to be about a dollar a page. Jeepers if very book cost that much I would only be reading picture books or make sure all the books I bought were just on one giant massively long scroll.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: knoxville on March 04, 2014, 08:30:22 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 28, 2014, 06:38:12 PM
Haarlem is not quite 'up the road' lol  I'm not sure about Zuid, but the Rokin was the only one in the Centrum that I knew of.  Now there's a woman's clothing store there and the Imperial Eagles look somewhat out of place...or very chic...

Good news! Check the GW website, apparently they closed the Rokin store before opening two new stores in Amsterdam! :)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=30500012a

GW Amsterdam West: http://www.facebook.com/GWAmsterdamWest
GW Amsterdam South: http://www.facebook.com/GWAmsterdamSouth

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 04, 2014, 11:05:15 AM
Quote from: knoxville on March 04, 2014, 08:30:22 AM
Good news! Check the GW website, apparently they closed the Rokin store before opening two new stores in Amsterdam! :)

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=30500012a

GW Amsterdam West: http://www.facebook.com/GWAmsterdamWest
GW Amsterdam South: http://www.facebook.com/GWAmsterdamSouth



Oh sweet!  I really only buy paint from them, but I'm getting low on primer :D  Jammer on the Rokin shop, it was on the main drag and an easy walk from work...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mahwell skel on March 04, 2014, 01:57:08 PM
There is an interesting article in the latest Wargames soldiers and strategy about how the recent surge in skirmish games is a reaction to the GW policy of starter sets and everything in one box.

There is some good insight into people wanting to play with less than 30 figures on the saves time/quick games/ less to paint argument with wargames time competing with computer games and a lot of
"instant fix" stuff these days.

It is quite positive about GW saying without a lot of youngsters getting the initial taste the industry would be worse off.

Not sure that will ring true soon though. My FLGS sells little GW while churning tons of blot action and the various mantic stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 09, 2014, 02:11:18 AM
Saw these today. Revamped Imperial Guard or something like that:

[MOD: Removed scans of unreleased White Dwarf's pages. GW are notorious in slapping C&Ds on sites showing these, and in Germany, this can get expensive.

Google for "Militarum Tempestus" and "Taurox Prime" if you want to see pics.]

The figures seem nice and the vehicle, if "cleaned" of all skulls and similar, would be a great all-terrain vehicle for new space colonies  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 09, 2014, 02:14:29 AM
And prices:

[MOD: The Taurox track will be 29 GBP/38 EUR/48 USD/55 AU$/58 CAN$]
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on March 09, 2014, 03:04:47 AM
Quote from: Predatorpt on March 09, 2014, 02:11:18 AM


 lol lol lol Bet we'll see a Grimdark Version of this soon  ::)
(http://www.fisher-price.com/img/product_shots/X0061-wheelies-disney-pixar-cars-2-speed-n-sounds-race-track-d-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 09, 2014, 03:24:12 AM
Troopers look cool but are almost verging on space marine armour
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on March 09, 2014, 03:32:20 AM
Seems that in terms of vehiicles they went from the sublime to the ridiculous with their last two releases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 09, 2014, 04:49:20 AM
It seems like GW has been influenced by Warzone to me. That vehicle is a straight up non-sequitur for Imperial Guard.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on March 09, 2014, 07:03:18 AM
Cool!

A bit like the british WW2 quad thing from the desert war.

The troopers are a bit overarmoured perhaps, but nice throwback to the 2nd ed stormies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on March 09, 2014, 07:37:49 AM
I like the stormtroopers but the car is horrible. It foresee it as being turned into a lot of ork battle wagons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on March 09, 2014, 07:50:27 AM
The truck is total guff! It looks like an Ork Truk!! It's a pity they've lost that 'real' army look! On the plus side, for the second time on a big model, there is a SEVERE lack of skulls ( for GW anyway)! Just leave out the radiator grill and your sorted! Troops are ok!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 09, 2014, 09:41:04 AM
DKK 210 for 5 troopers. As if!  ::)
They are nice enough, but there are so many other nice armoured sci-fi models out there.

The vehicle reminds me in shape a bit of the big IG moving fortress (cannot remember its name) from Epic (1st or 2nd Ed.).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 09, 2014, 11:08:29 AM
It definitely has the snub-nosed look of modern British AFVs and APCs to me, as well as the old WW2 Quad Tractor -

Mastiff

(http://armour.ws/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/British-MASTIFF-VEHICLE.jpg)


Warthog

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_En-sxfOkXP8/SsFee8T2CfI/AAAAAAAADQY/XnBiVP2FalY/s400/Warthog_STK.jpg)


Quad

(http://subgrafik.com/armour/quad/panzerflixcom_cmpquad001.jpg)

Somehow it does seem to have missed a certain something though. I suspect it could be saved with a half-tidy paintjob. I actually quite like the look of the models (the beret is a nice touch because I loved the old IG Stormtroopers) but as others have said, perhaps a tad too much armour.

Not bad though, I must say.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 09, 2014, 11:59:50 AM
As a kid I didnt know how big it actually was so I wanted either a quad or a kubelwagon as my first car..lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 09, 2014, 06:53:51 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on March 09, 2014, 11:59:50 AM
As a kid I didnt know how big it actually was so I wanted either a quad or a kubelwagon as my first car..lol


Hell, it ain't so far removed from a Humvee and if some Hollywood gimps can have one, so should you. As an amsuing (and slightly tragic) anecdote I was with the missus in a little Cornish village once and saw some (presumably) tourist trying to negotiate a narrow winding hill with cars parked down both sides. Eventually he gave up and just ploughed through, scraping down sides and tearing off wing mirrors before merrily growling off into the distance. The funny bit was seeing about a dozen people reach for their phones and take a picture or make a call to the local coppers. I can't imagine it got too far without being pulled over ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 09, 2014, 07:02:40 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 09, 2014, 06:53:51 PM
Hell, it ain't so far removed from a Humvee and if some Hollywood gimps can have one, so should you. As an amsuing (and slightly tragic) anecdote I was with the missus in a little Cornish village once and saw some (presumably) tourist trying to negotiate a narrow winding hill with cars parked down both sides. Eventually he gave up and just ploughed through, scraping down sides and tearing off wing mirrors before merrily growling off into the distance. The funny bit was seeing about a dozen people reach for their phones and take a picture or make a call to the local coppers. I can't imagine it got too far without being pulled over ...

Start from 00:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb_m__x19Xw

Bloody Americans...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 09, 2014, 11:17:29 PM
I really want to give that tank anti grav engines, all diesel punky and dirty. two pods per track space, make it all kinds of punky and do it up as an inter hive troupe of actors with las guns :D

Maybe take off the back roof and give it a canvas roof with a back stage and sponson stubbers :D
.....okay yeah, i hates it at first but no i want it with the stortroopers to make my dream of Blanche style punk actors come true.

(may even pick up a kinight and call it "the fat lady" so i can make it sing and end the battle.)

...................

sorry...i got lost in my head.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 10, 2014, 12:09:42 AM
Quote from: Cubs on March 09, 2014, 06:53:51 PM
Hell, it ain't so far removed from a Humvee and if some Hollywood gimps can have one, so should you. As an amsuing (and slightly tragic) anecdote I was with the missus in a little Cornish village once and saw some (presumably) tourist trying to negotiate a narrow winding hill with cars parked down both sides. Eventually he gave up and just ploughed through, scraping down sides and tearing off wing mirrors before merrily growling off into the distance. The funny bit was seeing about a dozen people reach for their phones and take a picture or make a call to the local coppers. I can't imagine it got too far without being pulled over ...
Did the driver look like Kevin Klein?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 10, 2014, 08:29:02 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on March 10, 2014, 12:09:42 AM
Did the driver look like Kevin Klein?  ;)

Tricky to tell though the back window of a Humvee.

I think I can see what GW were trying to do with the vehicle (light tank? apc?) but it seems a little off target. Seems too high for me and the two banks of tracks on each side look like a gimmick. Stick some big-ass wheels or a single track on each side and it could be a goer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 10, 2014, 01:15:12 PM
Yet another in a long line of disappointing vehicle releases. Not sure who is doing their plastic vehicle kits but they have been pretty lacklustre lately.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 10, 2014, 01:24:07 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 10, 2014, 01:15:12 PM
Yet another in a long line of disappointing vehicle releases. Not sure who is doing their plastic vehicle kits but they have been pretty lacklustre lately.

I have to agree.
The sense of believabilty is disappear further over the horizon with each release.
They appear more toy-like as time goes on, what with this thing and the Dwarf Gyro-thingy looking like new releases from Mattel.....

I think the whole image of the 40k universe has been going in a strange direction over the last few years.
I fear for where it will end up, as I used to see a use for their kits (conversions, of course) but not their latest offerings.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 10, 2014, 04:58:59 PM
Quote from: Mason on March 10, 2014, 01:24:07 PM
I have to agree.
The sense of believabilty is disappear further over the horizon with each release.
They appear more toy-like as time goes on, what with this thing and the Dwarh Gyrothingy looking like new releases from Mattel.....

I think the whole image of the 40k universe has been going in a strange direction over the last few years.
I fear for where it will end up, as I used to see a use for their kits (conversions, of course) but not their latest offerings.



To be honest, I had to look a few tomes to make such it was a GW release and not Mattel.  It looks like cheap soft plastic crap. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 10, 2014, 05:48:58 PM
Quote from: Argonor on March 09, 2014, 09:41:04 AM
The vehicle reminds me in shape a bit of the big IG moving fortress (cannot remember its name) from Epic (1st or 2nd Ed.).

I remember it now: The Leviathan: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Leviathan

Even that has single tracks...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 10, 2014, 06:07:05 PM
Quote from: Mason on March 10, 2014, 01:24:07 PM
I think the whole image of the 40k universe has been going in a strange direction over the last few years.
I fear for where it will end up, as I used to see a use for their kits (conversions, of course) but not their latest offerings.

I blame 3D modelling for these latest "meh" kits from GW. I think that the designers aren't able to visualize the vehicles properly when making them. Compared to what FW is putting out these look like rubbish.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 10, 2014, 06:13:59 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 10, 2014, 06:07:05 PM
I blame 3D modelling for these latest "meh" kits from GW. I think that the designers aren't able to visualize the vehicles properly when making them. Compared to what FW is putting out these look like rubbish.

I agree.

I used to see Forgeworld as a 'Rich Boys' toyshop.
Great stuff but too pricey for me.

Now it is starting to look pretty good value when you compare their quality and price to what the other part of GW offer.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on March 10, 2014, 10:32:44 PM
That vehicle is awful Those weird track stilts just look bad.

I agree that GW stuff seems to be getting more cartoony as time goes on.

Disappointed with the guard to. The karskin were better. Are those metal models still avalable? pretty sure you could get 10 of them for the price of these 5 plastics.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 11, 2014, 03:17:39 AM
While searching for some videos about their new Imperial Knights mechs, I came across some official GW tutorials on painting them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njhLv_nyP_s&list=UUwdh3MTrFq3sXlB4ct8B-Fg

And I have to say that I was impressed. For someone who already knows how to paint, they don't bring anything new to the table, but for someone who's starting on the hobby it's really helpful. And the best part...it's free!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on March 11, 2014, 08:42:30 AM
I think, but it's hard to see from the teeny little pictures, that those "pidgin-latin-stormtroopers", may not be all that bad. If only as parts for Inq28 or Necromunda conversions.

But I just can't figure out that combat-winnebago... It looks like something out of an 80's cartoon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on March 11, 2014, 10:43:28 AM
Quote from: Modhail on March 11, 2014, 08:42:30 AM
combat-winnebago

If only they'd actually made that. Then I'd buy it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 11, 2014, 12:19:28 PM
it looks like a toy from the He-Man range
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on March 11, 2014, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on March 11, 2014, 12:19:28 PM
it looks like a toy from the He-Man range

He-Mans Attack Track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P533KZLth5g
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 11, 2014, 12:43:07 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on March 11, 2014, 12:30:15 PM
He-Mans Attack Track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P533KZLth5g

Exactly what I was thinking about...LOL!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 11, 2014, 05:52:53 PM
Nice catch!  lol

Man that was good for a laugh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 11, 2014, 05:57:39 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on March 11, 2014, 05:52:53 PM
Nice catch!  lol

Man that was good for a laugh.

Seriously, am I wrong?? lol :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 11, 2014, 08:45:56 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on March 11, 2014, 03:17:39 AM
And I have to say that I was impressed.

That model is a lot more complex than I thought it would be.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 12, 2014, 01:02:31 AM
Ogryns!

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/538010_723011781071729_1066997153_n_zps1d8fd66d.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/1173908_723011717738402_869779504_n_zps8057cf26.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/1939992_723011767738397_2069099912_n_zpsaffa8cfd.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/1896778_723011727738401_1400757198_n_zps7123636c.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/1962752_723011721071735_1269925886_n_zpsa9f616b9.jpg)

And another Chimera version

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/1959327_723011764405064_279272368_n_zps6e62c782.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on March 12, 2014, 01:22:03 AM
Man those Ogryns is ugly.  lol
Sure I saw the top one in The Goonies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 12, 2014, 03:01:26 AM
Quote from: Diakon on March 12, 2014, 01:22:03 AM
Man those Ogryns is ugly.  lol

Its a series of figures that haven't had a decent model since Bob Olley.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 12, 2014, 03:31:03 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 12, 2014, 03:01:26 AM
Its a series of figures that haven't had a decent model since Bob Olley.

Agreed, just awful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on March 12, 2014, 04:08:39 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 12, 2014, 03:01:26 AM
Its a series of figures that haven't had a decent model since Bob Olley.

Also agreed. I'm feeling really sore right now 'cos I just lost a Bob Olley Ogryn on ebay by 40p.  :( :'(

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Johnno on March 12, 2014, 04:18:08 AM
Quote from: Diakon on March 12, 2014, 01:22:03 AM
Man those Ogryns is ugly.  lol
Sure I saw the top one in The Goonies.
Heyyy yooouuu guuuuuuuys!
The one that looks like Bane with the riot shield looks good to me
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 12, 2014, 04:21:23 AM
I quite like those. But still won't get them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 12, 2014, 09:12:20 AM
They don't look too bad to me, but I am continually annoyed by the steroid abuse look that GW sticks with. There doesn't seem to be any ... what ... life? to them. I know they're plastic models, but they don't have to look plastic after painting. Maybe I'm nit-picking.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on March 12, 2014, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: Mahwell skel on March 04, 2014, 01:57:08 PM
Not sure that will ring true soon though. My FLGS sells little GW while churning tons of blot action and the various mantic stuff.

Who's buying the mantic and BA stuff - the younger, next generation, of gamers or the older pre existing ones?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 12, 2014, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: Johnno on March 12, 2014, 04:18:08 AM
The one that looks like Bane with the riot shield looks good to me

Me too. But I think it's because he's mostly covered up. Like a big paper bag over his head and everything else, made of tank parts.
Also, what Cubs said. I look at these and my second thought (after 'man they uglee') is 'someone could clean up, sculpting and selling good versions.'
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on March 12, 2014, 12:26:57 PM
I like the paint job on the guys with shields (they have made a good choice not to paint the legs as trousers)  but as Cubs says it still looks 'plastic'. GW newer stuff looks like the sculptor charges extra to do curves!!. Is Sci Fi combat possible in ultra tight trousers? Some nice bits, but overall they look a bit 'He-Man' really.

I have just had a thought, maybe they are designing their figures on an 'Etch a sketch', that is why there aren't many curves...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 12, 2014, 12:56:41 PM
I think those ogryns look better than the previous plastic ogryns, I somewhat like the sculpts.  But they lack the character of older miniatures.  They do seem more in line with current GW sculpting to make things look 'ultra realistic', perhaps to a fault.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 12, 2014, 04:49:20 PM
Quote from: Timbor on March 12, 2014, 12:56:41 PM
They do seem more in line with current GW sculpting to make things look 'ultra realistic'

Then they failed miserably. :D

There are a few general complaints about GW's style and look these days: too realistic, too cartoony, even the slightly bonkers too computer-assisted designed...ey. I don't think any of these really fit. With these ogryns in particular, I think the main point is that they're just not very good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on March 12, 2014, 05:56:11 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 12, 2014, 04:49:20 PM
I don't think any of these really fit. With these ogryns on particular, I think the main point is that they're just not very good.

Nail on the head. They're a shadow of their former selves. Even some recent-ish things have being of excellent quality. The current plastic Plaguebearers for example are lovely. The odd character miniature over the last five years or so has been good too. Like The Changeling and the Warhammer plastic Nurgle Lord miniature that everyone on Ammobunker is always converting into INQ28.
But over the last year the ratio of good:bad has shifted radically. Out of these new Guard models I'm literally seeing nothing I'd even consider buying. The Stormtroopers are ridiculously over sized and overladen with skulls, aquillas etc., the new APC looks like a Tonka toy and the Ogryns are just, as you say Vermis, not very good. The Chimera variant is okay-ish I guess but the main gun looks bigger than the chassis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 12, 2014, 07:18:41 PM
Those Ogryn's are nothing short of horrific. Plain ugly. Not a single good thing about them. Really don't like the use of track links as armour. Don't like the blocky uber guns. Faces are worse than the Ogre Kingdoms ones - which I would personally switch them out to.

These are better:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ofVpTHf3pcY/To28ihNKGbI/AAAAAAAAAEM/gpYegg4lShg/s1600/Ogryn+Showcase.JPG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 12, 2014, 07:38:37 PM
To each his own... I like them more than the ones in this style:

(http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1241860_99060105220_IGOgryn2main_873x627.jpg)
(http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1241865_99060105221_IGOgryn3main_873x627.jpg)

Though I still like this rendition much better:

(http://www.solegends.com/citcat2000/c2000p111-01.jpg)

I can see what they were trying to do with the sculpts, and overall they are an improvement, IMO.  I really dislike the OK range at this point in general, so I don't think their faces would help any.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 12, 2014, 07:43:19 PM
Those top ones aren't very good either, Timbor.  :P

Looking at them, I'm reminded of something Steve Buddle once blogged about, and that might explain the 'too CAD-looking' complaints. Namely, the idea that GW might have started to design metal/finecast minis to resemble minis subject to the undercut limitations of plastic injection. I can sort of see it in the flattened, angular planes and features, especially in the faces.
'Course, this doesn't explain why even plastic minis should have flattened planes all over, and I don't think it accounts for the drop in quality, specifically in these ogryns and the new plastic versions. I agree that they look kind of lifeless, but I don't agree it's down to CAD. Can't really put my finger on it, but they look chunky and simplified. Has this got something to do with appealing to a younger market? I dunno. In addition, I look at the faces of these soon-to-be-replaced ogryns and TBH they look like the sculptor didn't have much of a grasp of how a face is put together. I can see how they'd appeal in being neat and clean in their angularity, but noses, brows, creases, teeth etc. look pretty crude and inexpert. Is it because the sculptor isn't up to scratch, or because they're railroaded into a house style, including a sort of (de) evolution of what's sold in the past? (especially with crude ogryn faces) Does any of that 'simplified for kids' theory come into it too?

I'm not really fond of the vintage Perry and Goodwin ogres and ogryns, with their flat noses and goofy Muppet faces; but they do look preferable to all these later versions. (especially when you look past the faces) Cartoony and a bit crude, but looking more like the old boys knew what they were doing and designing, and knew what anatomy they were exaggerating. (not surprising) More characterful. Less of the 'designed by committee', 'sculpt-by-numbers' look.

Quote
the Warhammer plastic Nurgle Lord miniature that everyone on Ammobunker is always converting into INQ28.

Not too shabby, is it? I bought one at full price. Considering buying another, even at full price, for converting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 12, 2014, 08:26:57 PM
okay, i don't like them enough to buy them but two things jump to mind....
1.arbites ogryns.
2.riot prevention imperial guard centurion mashup.call them the spartan squad and that'd explain their phalanx style shields.

on the one hand gw mini's always give my ideas, on the other im sad that i never like them enough to want them for anything but conversions.the potential is there, just buried under lots of meh :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 12, 2014, 08:35:27 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 12, 2014, 08:26:57 PM
on the one hand gw mini's always give my ideas, on the other im sad that i never like them enough to want them for anything but conversions.the potential is there, just buried under lots of meh :P

The nail has been hit on the head!
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 12, 2014, 08:40:09 PM
Quote
on the one hand gw mini's always give my ideas, on the other im sad that i never like them enough to want them for anything but conversions.the potential is there, just buried under lots of meh

True, true! Hence the second thought.

Steve Buddle's aforementioned blog post:

http://spyglassasylum.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/curious-case-of-making-metal-look.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 12, 2014, 08:45:32 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 12, 2014, 08:40:09 PM
True, true! Hence the second thought.

Steve Buddle's aforementioned blog post:

http://spyglassasylum.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/curious-case-of-making-metal-look.html

You know he did a post the other day that i think is also relevant, about the move away from games workshop a few years ago ,away from punky painting towards the perfectly blended realistic tones. i think gw is trying to strike a balance between the people who want the pieces for fun and the people who want to paint them for display, and it just ends up looking half bothered.
I hope the trend of more blanch style painting comes back because it may add some life to these flat miniatures, but right now i don't look forward to the slew of airbrushed and blended cartoon realistic paintjobs that will come along with this release.

40k is at its core a punky grim dark game of over the top spikyness and stupidity, which is great! but it isnt rackham, it isnt warmahordes or any of the other "cleaner" styled games, and it needs to stop trying to appeal to that market and get back to being spiky dirty and hilariously bleak.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 12, 2014, 08:59:52 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 12, 2014, 08:45:32 PM
You know he did a post the other day that i think is also relevant, about the move away from games workshop a few years ago ,away from punky painting towards the perfectly blended realistic tones. i think gw is trying to strike a balance between the people who want the pieces for fun and the people who want to paint them for display, and it just ends up looking half bothered.
I hope the trend of more blanch style painting comes back because it may add some life to these flat miniatures, but right now i don't look forward to the slew of airbrushed and blended cartoon realistic paintjobs that will come along with this release.

I know! :) Scanning down his blog to look for that link, I was reminded of all the blanchitsu stuff he posted. Particularly the forgeworld ettin (http://spyglassasylum.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/blanche-on-larger-canvas.html). A wee bit messy-looking on the close-up (nothing too egregious) but like a Blanche painting come to life in the full shot. Convinced me that there was more room for... maybe 'painterly style' isn't quite the right phrase, but more expression. Less of GW's flat basecoat with dark lines, as with all those ogryns, or as you say, perfect, mechanical blends.

Though when you say 'he did a post the other day' - where was that?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 12, 2014, 09:07:46 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 12, 2014, 07:43:19 PM
Those top ones aren't very good either, Timbor.  :P

Looking at them, I'm reminded of something Steve Buddle once blogged about, and that might explain the 'too CAD-looking' complaints. Namely, the idea that GW might have started to design metal/finecast minis to resemble minis subject to the undercut limitations of plastic injection. I can sort of see it in the flattened, angular planes and features, especially in the faces.
'Course, this doesn't explain why even plastic minis should have flattened planes all over, and I don't think it accounts for the drop in quality, specifically in these ogryns and the new plastic versions. I agree that they look kind of lifeless, but I don't agree it's down to CAD. Can't really put my finger on it, but they look chunky and simplified. Has this got something to do with appealing to a younger market? I dunno. In addition, I look at the faces of these soon-to-be-replaced ogryns and TBH they look like the sculptor didn't have much of a grasp of how a face is put together. I can see how they'd appeal in being neat and clean in their angularity, but noses, brows, creases, teeth etc. look pretty crude and inexpert. Is it because the sculptor isn't up to scratch, or because they're railroaded into a house style, including a sort of (de) evolution of what's sold in the past? (especially with crude ogryn faces) Does any of that 'simplified for kids' theory come into it too?

I'm not really fond of the vintage Perry and Goodwin ogres and ogryns, with their flat noses and goofy Muppet faces; but they do look preferable to all these later versions. (especially when you look past the faces) Cartoony and a bit crude, but looking more like the old boys knew what they were doing and designing, and knew what anatomy they were exaggerating. (not surprising) More characterful. Less of the 'designed by committee', 'sculpt-by-numbers' look.

Not too shabby, is it? I bought one at full price. Considering buying another, even at full price, for converting.

I meant I dislike the current metal ogryns, moreso than the upcoming releases.  I would agree that I have seen a somewhat 'simplification' of details on GW models, if that makes sense.  My main point would be to compare the current plastic skaven troops to older ones - the older ones had more fine detail for the fur and whiskers, etc, whereas the newer ones tend to have smooth, flowing fur and whisker details. Same goes for the 6th edition plastic empire state troops - you could see the fine details for the hair and beards, and the eyelids and cheekbones were visible.  The newer kits have smoother finishes on those which gives it a different look (not necessarily better).

I think a lot of the new kits have been improved in some posing and weapons details, etc, but the simplification of some of those finer details (not to mention the addition of useless skulls bits and bobs) often makes them less appealing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 12, 2014, 09:11:22 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 12, 2014, 08:59:52 PM
I know! :) Scanning down his blog to look for that link, I was reminded of all the blanchitsu stuff he posted. Particularly the forgeworld ettin (http://spyglassasylum.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/blanche-on-larger-canvas.html). A wee bit messy-looking on the close-up (nothing too egregious) but like a Blanche painting come to life in the full shot. Convinced me that there was more room for... maybe 'painterly style' isn't quite the right phrase, but more expression. Less of GW's flat basecoat with dark lines, as with all those ogryns, or as you say, perfect, mechanical blends.

Though when you say 'he did a post the other day' - where was that?

"paintilistic" is the phrase we use, not really a real word but its what we use in the studio to describe the idea of using process and layers to add texture in an expressive way.although if im being an art student ass for a minute, i'd describe blanches style almost as sculptural, using the paint to create texture, and actually working into his paint to add depth and form rather than blending to create tone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on March 12, 2014, 09:29:00 PM
It seems that GW's  "official" painting style is purely dogmatic and focused on technique, with the miniature itself, or what it is meant to represent given seemingly no thought or attention. It seems to be just: select surface to paint, select colour, start standard painting routine, select next surface, next colour, apply routine again, repeat until all surfaces have been processed. Grab next figure, select surface, etc.... Pure assembly line.
(Hardly surprising, seeing the sheer avalanche of releases GW puts out, the painters simply don't have time go give each mini proper attention or immerse themselves in the subject at hand.)
And, judging by a segment of modern sculpts, the same goes for the sculptors.
Such a shame, and waste of a perfectly good setting, IP and visual style.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 12, 2014, 09:40:17 PM
Quote from: Modhail on March 12, 2014, 09:29:00 PM
It seems that GW's  "official" painting style is purely dogmatic and focused on technique, with the miniature itself, or what it is meant to represent given seemingly no thought or attention. It seems to be just: select surface to paint, select colour, start standard painting routine, select next surface, next colour, apply routine again, repeat until all surfaces have been processed. Grab next figure, select surface, etc.... Pure assembly line.
(Hardly surprising, seeing the sheer avalanche of releases GW puts out, the painters simply don't have time go give each mini proper attention or immerse themselves in the subject at hand.)
And, judging by a segment of modern sculpts, the same goes for the sculptors.
Such a shame, and waste of a perfectly good setting, IP and visual style.

This is my issue with airbrushes.there are amazing things you can do with an airbrush, really amazing things, but all i see if base coat , highlight, template, neon highlights.
rinse and repeat.

Remember tho that the early eavy metal painters were punk art students, their experience of painting was from an artistic background and so they used artistic techniques which on a small scale produce great effects that look messy but full of character.now most miniature painters learned to paint using miniatures , and the best painters normally paint the more "boutique" miniatures which were made as a reaction against the punky dirty style of gw. it's sort of like art history in reverse, or like art ANCIENT history being played out in miniature.
one thing that always bugged me with the sculpts was that they were cluttered, but not detailed.take the metal space marine heroes from a few years ago, lots of stuff on them but very little striking detail and no really big surfaces to  play with.


i never followed the painting guides in white dwarf because they weren't my color schemes and i couldn't afford all the paints, so i used the fine art techniques my dad taught me which i later developed on miniatures and then used in my own fine art studied, and am now bringing back to miniatures.

do they fit the ultra neat cartoony realistic look that has become standard? no.
are they fun to do and full of character? they are to me, and that makes them great.

i may never play a game of 40k again, but i my build a punk gothic troupe of actors with guns living on a floating tank stage, and whilst i wont have made everything look like it came out of the box pre painted, il love how they look when they're done, and if you ask me that's when we need more of, willingness to be out their and have armies with character.


(sorry is this is all getting a little non sensicle to anyone who isn't familiar with my stream of consciousnesses ranting  :D.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 13, 2014, 09:02:13 AM
Quote from: Modhail on March 12, 2014, 09:29:00 PM
It seems that GW's  "official" painting style is purely dogmatic and focused on technique ...

Definitely. I judge that their focus is about making sure each painter adheres to the 'Eavy Metal style of process, such that a consistent and uniform standard and style is produced, no matter who the individual is. It does fit with their company ethos of micro-management and corporate identity and thus flair and artistry is lost in the name of identical processing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 13, 2014, 01:37:44 PM
Flair and artistry are also lost in the photography process. A lot of detail is just not seen in photographs unless you are specifically shooting to show it. Even back when Mike McVey was at GW they painted specifically for photographing the models and I suspect that the intervening years have just codified that process.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 13, 2014, 03:48:12 PM
I can kind of see where they're coming from, if they have identified a specific style as being the one they want to get the response they're after.

It's a bit like McDonalds. It doesn't matter which McDonalds you go into, wherever it is in the world, you know exactly what you're going to get. It ain't good for you and it's not exceptional quality, but it is strangely reassuring.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 13, 2014, 03:53:58 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 13, 2014, 03:48:12 PM
I can kind of see where they're coming from, if they have identified a specific style as being the one they want to get the response they're after.

I had the pleasure of being able to see some of the Privateer Press catalogue models once and some of the figures had detail on them (the Khador jacks especially) that just disappears in the photos. Total waste of time to do it if you are going to paint the model for a catalogue or print piece. I was there to do an interview with Mike McVey and when I mentioned that to him he talked about GW and how they painted specifically for print. Models that might not be the best paint job or even what the painter wanted to do but was done to feature the models and make them look good in print.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 13, 2014, 05:14:31 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 13, 2014, 03:53:58 PM
I had the pleasure of being able to see some of the Privateer Press catalogue models once and some of the figures had detail on them (the Khador jacks especially) that just disappears in the photos. Total waste of time to do it if you are going to paint the model for a catalogue or print piece. I was there to do an interview with Mike McVey and when I mentioned that to him he talked about GW and how they painted specifically for print. Models that might not be the best paint job or even what the painter wanted to do but was done to feature the models and make them look good in print.

I need to track down the penny arcade comic about mcvey and how he painted around white dwarf deadlines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 14, 2014, 06:12:19 PM
Richard 'one fat lardy' Clarke's column in Wargames: Soldiers and Strategy mentions that he thinks the move to skirmish games with 10-20-30 minis a side is largely down to GW's games and starter sets.

I like your column Rich, but:

 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 14, 2014, 06:13:35 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 14, 2014, 06:12:19 PM
Richard 'one fat lardy' Clarke's column in Wargames: Soldiers and Strategy mentions that he thinks the move to skirmish games with 10-20-30 minis a side is largely down to GW's games and starter sets.

I like your column Rich, but:

 lol lol lol

anyway you can share the article for those of us out of touch with print media? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 14, 2014, 06:37:31 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 14, 2014, 06:12:19 PM
Richard 'one fat lardy' Clarke's column in Wargames: Soldiers and Strategy mentions that he thinks the move to skirmish games with 10-20-30 minis a side is largely down to GW's games and starter sets.

I like your column Rich, but:

 lol lol lol

And yet when Warlord but out a starter for Bolt Action with that number of figures it sold well...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on March 14, 2014, 09:37:21 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 13, 2014, 05:14:31 PM
I need to track down the penny arcade comic about mcvey and how he painted around white dwarf deadlines.

Would very much like to see that if you find it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 15, 2014, 12:47:15 AM
Pixelgeek: I have a feeling one of us is misunderstanding, but I'm not sure who it is...

Nic-e: I can't share, but Karwansaray (http://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/cms/karwansaray/ws-s/latest-issue.html) can.  :P

It was a bit about the middle of the column that made me double-take. Started out with the usual stuff about how kids are getting into gaming via GW these days, rather than Don Featherstone et al. Segued into a couple of paragraphs about how skirmish and platoon games are becoming more popular, and the first ended with this line:

Quote
The fact that this new breed of smaller games mirrors the force-sizes typical of entry-level sets for 40K cannot be coincidence.

From what disgruntled GW gamer complaints I see, some of the problems with the modern game are: starter set compositions are unbalanced and usually 'illegal' under codex rules; you can play 40K with 20-30 minis (I think the <10 Rich mentioned for skirmish gangs is less feasible) but it's far from optimal (for 40K, that is ;D ); and GW have been slowly inflating the army sizes of their core games for years, to the point they're apparently trying to introduce Apocalypse rules and mechanisms into the main game, and people are leaving in droves in the face of the amount of overpriced plastic they'd have to buy.

So yeah, Richard, I'd say it is a coincidence. ;D

(After the 'GW is promoting tiny games' bit [still can't believe he thinks it] he went on to grumble about ex-GWers expecting or rewarding historical games that mirror 40K mechanisms rather than historical facts or tactics. Sounded like a bit of a get-off-my-lawn moment but I don't really disagree with him. It's a topic for another thread, but while he didn't even hint at any of these...'mistorical' games, for some reason my mind went to Bolt Action and the magazine's ad for it's rival, TFL's Chain of Command. ['The game one reviewer called "the last word in WWII wargaming"'])
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 15, 2014, 01:37:22 AM
Quote from: Vermis on March 15, 2014, 12:47:15 AM
After the 'GW is promoting tiny games' bit [still can't believe he thinks it...

Without having the whole article to read, it appears that he isn't commenting on the validity of the forces in the sets just the size of the sets.

But really without the whole article its probably not fair to comment
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 15, 2014, 10:13:35 AM
Quote from: Vermis on March 15, 2014, 12:47:15 AM
(After the 'GW is promoting tiny games' bit [still can't believe he thinks it] he went on to grumble about ex-GWers expecting or rewarding historical games that mirror 40K mechanisms rather than historical facts or tactics. Sounded like a bit of a get-off-my-lawn moment but I don't really disagree with him. It's a topic for another thread, but while he didn't even hint at any of these...'mistorical' games, for some reason my mind went to Bolt Action and the magazine's ad for it's rival, TFL's Chain of Command. ['The game one reviewer called "the last word in WWII wargaming"'])

The whole idea is strange to me, I just don't see your regular warhammer player who decides to switch systems jump onto WWII games all that quickly. I mean I can appreciate both but something like say warmachine would be a lot more likely to charm these ex-gw player right? Heck I know it did for me for while back when.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 15, 2014, 10:41:15 AM
I read the article too and it jarred with me. I put it down to a more historical approach, with him talking about the 'Old School' wargames, in majestic Napoleonic style, with huge colourful blocks of troops, compared to the earlier days of Warhammer and Rogue Trader with a smattering of disparate models forming your 'army' and having a bash about.

It's a little before my time really since I certainly was playing 1st Edition Warhammer in the early eighties, but didn't play any historical games (apart from the 'all your toys' bashes my brothers and I used to play on the dining room table) to compare it to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 15, 2014, 10:54:52 AM
Quote from: Cubs
A little before my time really since I certainly was playing 1st Edition Warhammer in the early eighties, but didn't play any historical games (apart from the 'all your toys' bashes my brothers and I used to play on the dining room table) to compare it to.

I think that's called apocalypse now ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 15, 2014, 12:00:14 PM
Nic-e: nah, I think that's the one with Marlon Brando in it. :P

Quote from: pixelgeek on March 15, 2014, 01:37:22 AM
Without having the whole article to read, it appears that he isn't commenting on the validity of the forces in the sets just the size of the sets.

Apart from the direct quote about just why he thinks skirmish games are more popular, which leads to the bit about GW in general, de-embiggening games. It does sound as if 'kids these days' just need an Assault on Black Reach or Dark Vengeance to be perfectly content with 40K, which is something I have trouble imagining.
I have to agree with Cubs: it's as if he cast a jaundiced eye over Rogue Trader once or twice, then assumed that the game had basically the same scope for the last 2-3 decades.

YPU: warmahordes does seem to be 40K's main rival these days (depends just how high the position of 'first loser' elevates you in this specific little world). Although I've been keeping an eye on a Warseer post-GW suggestion topic, and Bolt Action is not an uncommon name on it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 15, 2014, 12:23:46 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 15, 2014, 12:00:14 PM
Nic-e: nah, I think that's the one with Marlon Brando in it. :P

Mind the oranges, Marlon!

Quote from: nic-e on March 15, 2014, 10:54:52 AM
I think that's called apocalypse now ;D

Those games were pure ace. I don't know if it's down to nostalgia or just the sight of Esci's Roman and Greek ranges (what do you mean they're not accurate?) galloping down onto Airfix's Washington's Army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 16, 2014, 08:36:36 PM
looks like we aren't the only ones who think the taurox is a tad silly ... ;)
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/mantic11_zps8757e791.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 16, 2014, 09:37:18 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 16, 2014, 08:36:36 PM
looks like we aren't the only ones who think the taurox is a tad silly ... ;)
Missed that, worth a laugh.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on March 16, 2014, 09:52:29 PM
 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 16, 2014, 10:25:18 PM
I've been thinking, doesn't GW Make most of its big kits multi-purpose these days? A lot of models "either make the blood dripper gore shade painter or the extremely grim power pike stabber" Maybe the taurox is the weaker of 2 options? I can definitely see it as being the "o shit we need another build option" basterd child of something a tad better looking.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 16, 2014, 10:32:12 PM
Quote from: YPU on March 16, 2014, 10:25:18 PM
I've been thinking, doesn't GW Make most of its big kits multi-purpose these days? A lot of models "either make the blood dripper gore shade painter or the extremely grim power pike stabber" Maybe the taurox is the weaker of 2 options? I can definitely see it as being the "o shit we need another build option" basterd child of something a tad better looking.

Holding out for grav engines.........
:D probably an apc version an a heavy gunner version.i imagine the tracks are in both versions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 16, 2014, 10:38:09 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 16, 2014, 10:32:12 PM
Holding out for grav engines.........
:D probably an apc version an a heavy gunner version.i imagine the tracks are in both versions.
They look look like a very separate component. Its not that I am hoping they "save" this in some way, I just have a hard time believing that model. Even the angle of the tracks appears infuriatingly stupid, that's never going to get you over any obstacle...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 16, 2014, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: YPU on March 16, 2014, 10:38:09 PM
They look look like a very separate component. Its not that I am hoping they "save" this in some way, I just have a hard time believing that model. Even the angle of the tracks appears infuriatingly stupid, that's never going to get you over any obstacle...

so Goethe the age old mantra "don't expect realism in 40k".

even wheels will not make me like it. only with grav engines can it toe that perfect line between awesome and stupid that 40k exists in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 17, 2014, 05:11:48 AM
Quote from: Cubs on March 15, 2014, 10:41:15 AM
(apart from the 'all your toys' bashes my brothers and I used to play on the dining room table) to compare it to.

Me and my brother used to do that too. I don't think we ever finished a game though. Turns took so long!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 17, 2014, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: beefcake on March 17, 2014, 05:11:48 AM
Me and my brother used to do that too. I don't think we ever finished a game though. Turns took so long!

still sounds like apocalypse.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 18, 2014, 12:55:41 AM
Some good points about the Imperial Knight helmets... lol lol

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/7fqAPCT_zps8b6f39ef.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 18, 2014, 05:13:03 AM
Quote from: nic-e on March 17, 2014, 09:08:47 PM
still sounds like apocalypse.....
Lol only difference is there were never any big vehicles etc that took up half the gaming space that you needed a forklift license to manoeuvre.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 20, 2014, 07:24:02 PM
Quote from: beefcake on March 18, 2014, 05:13:03 AM
Lol only difference is there were never any big vehicles etc that took up half the gaming space that you needed a forklift license to manoeuvre.

I like to call that wallhammer, because once you've blown the crap out of each others infantry it just becomes two walls shooting at each other :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on March 23, 2014, 11:46:59 AM
New Hobbit releases out.  Beorn in bear-form adds new meaning to the word "turd".  Disco Thranduil to add to the "Monkey Twins".

Gundabad Orcs - another fiecast-only army.  Basic force looks like it will set you back £210 for 36 troops and 3 characters.  *Sigh* was it only three or four years ago that you could get 40 plastic Uruk-hai for £30 (even they're £54 now...)?

Also, they're doing 1-click collections.  The Rohan one (mix of metal and plastic) has 28 infantry (18 troops + 10 characters) and 9 cavalry (6 troops + 3 characters) for... £140.  Again, the old Rohan plastic army deal was 48 infantry + 18 cavalry for £50 :(

Best not to talk about the Hunter Orc deal - 27 infantry and 14 cavalry for £152  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 23, 2014, 11:53:32 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on March 23, 2014, 11:46:59 AM
New Hobbit releases out.  Beorn in bear-form adds new meaning to the word "turd".  Disco Thranduil to add to the "Monkey Twins".

Gundabad Orcs - another fiecast-only army.  Basic force looks like it will set you back £210 for 36 troops and 3 characters.  *Sigh* was it only three or four years ago that you could get 40 plastic Uruk-hai for £30 (even they're £54 now...)?

Also, they're doing 1-click collections.  The Rohan one (mix of metal and plastic) has 28 infantry (18 troops + 10 characters) and 9 cavalry (6 troops + 3 characters) for... £140.  Again, the old Rohan plastic army deal was 48 infantry + 18 cavalry for £50 :(

Best not to talk about the Hunter Orc deal - 27 infantry and 14 cavalry for £152  ;D


To paraquote Ronald Reagan, "I did not leave Games Workshop, Games Workshop left me."  I would have loved to do a LOTR SAGA project, but with these costs I could do 2 if not 3 historical forces or even GoT forces for the cost of one in LOTR.  Needless to say, I burn with jealousy over the mates that managed to get in on this ground floor! I hope you all excuse my French, but F Games Workshop.  Stupid expensive for no real reason but to wring cash from hobbyists!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 23, 2014, 11:55:47 AM
Sales of LOTR models bombed here and there, so its often quite easy to find them at pretty deep discounts. War of the ring plays pretty well and I'm kind of sad I sold on all of the LotR stuff I got wholesale from toy stores around here. I should have kept a army or two so that I could play that game. Still might be possible to pick up a force on the cheap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 23, 2014, 12:09:23 PM
Quote from: YPU on March 23, 2014, 11:55:47 AM
Sales of LOTR models bombed here and there, so its often quite easy to find them at pretty deep discounts. War of the ring plays pretty well and I'm kind of sad I sold on all of the LotR stuff I got wholesale from toy stores around here. I should have kept a army or two so that I could play that game. Still might be possible to pick up a force on the cheap.

Cheers Mate!  Sadly I havent seen any deals...  Jammer :(  I look on evilbay once in a while, but then again, I have a TON of historical SAGA stuff now.  But since I have a bunch of extra figs, I may do a couple of small GoT forces in the future.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 23, 2014, 12:13:21 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on March 23, 2014, 12:09:23 PM
Cheers Mate!  Sadly I havent seen any deals...  Jammer :(  I look on evilbay once in a while, but then again, I have a TON of historical SAGA stuff now.  But since I have a bunch of extra figs, I may do a couple of small GoT forces in the future.
yea the time for the best deals have passed. I might actually have a few boxes left over somewhere. Need to check next time I'm at my parents place.
You might be better of checking marktplaats for lord of the rings figuurtjes. decent deals pop up now and again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on March 23, 2014, 12:17:48 PM
What a load of rubbish those new releases are! Insanely expensive, shitecast, and hardly anything anyway. Self fulfilling abject failure prophecy. It must be entirely intentional - realise The Hobbit has been nowhere near as popular as the Lord of the Rings, so do the bare minimum for the license agreement and then cover your ears and go "LALALALA". Typical GW, they have by far left me behind this last couple of years - I was clinging on through love of the backgrounds until now.

What the hell kind of pose is Thranduil in? Is he about to begin a dance routine?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 23, 2014, 10:26:13 PM
Still holding out for a smaug model but i know for a fact it'll never come and if it does it'll be finecast and deformed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 23, 2014, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 23, 2014, 10:26:13 PM
Still holding out for a smaug model but i know for a fact it'll never come and if it does it'll be finecast and deformed.

I plan to use the Otherworld red dragon as Smaug :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 23, 2014, 10:47:09 PM
I plan on using a cardboard cutout hanging from the ceiling so its shadow covers the tabletop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 24, 2014, 06:24:19 AM
Tempted to get me a Knight as I love the originals  8)

Apart from the one on tracks  :-X Looked like a crap K9

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on March 24, 2014, 01:40:03 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on March 23, 2014, 11:46:59 AM
Disco Thranduil to add to the "Monkey Twins".

 lol Spot on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on March 24, 2014, 02:57:28 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on March 24, 2014, 06:24:19 AM
Tempted to get me a Knight as I love the originals  8)

Apart from the one on tracks  :-X Looked like a crap K9

cheers

James

I quite like the new knights models, not for the asking price though,
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 24, 2014, 03:21:18 PM
Man, the bear-shaped Beorn is absolutely horrible... More like a deformed gorilla than a bear.  A real miss that one, regardless of what the price is.  It seems like the paintjobs for the hobbit stuff are intentionally crappy as well
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 24, 2014, 04:11:00 PM
Is there a US Games Day anymore?

I'm thinking I need to try for a Golden Demon at least once in my life. I can't seem to find any details on the event, if they still have it, and what categories there are.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on March 24, 2014, 05:02:01 PM
The bear looks like a miniature of a man in a bear costume.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 24, 2014, 08:12:41 PM
Quote from: carlos13th on March 24, 2014, 05:02:01 PM
The bear looks like a miniature of a man in a bear costume.

"cast in high quality finecast resin, games workshops new collection shows you the making of the hobbit, including the motion capture foam on a stick trolls, the extras having a fag break, and a man covered in a rag showing you how a giant bear should sound."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 25, 2014, 01:19:21 PM
Thoughts?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 25, 2014, 01:44:49 PM
Nice freehand!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 25, 2014, 01:49:56 PM
Let me clarify, this is not my work, it's from Dakka Dakka but I thought it was so cool I wanted to share. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 25, 2014, 05:43:35 PM
Kids these days painting dicks on the sides of their landraiders...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on March 25, 2014, 06:04:59 PM
Thank you for pointing that out! Now that is all I see. o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 25, 2014, 06:07:15 PM
 lol

Shit camo though (unless you're in the Sistine Chapel  ;D ).

Very well done though and over the armour joints must have been a sod to do  8) 8)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blue in vt on March 25, 2014, 06:10:20 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on March 25, 2014, 06:07:15 PM
lol

Shit camo though (unless you're in the Sistine Chapel  ;D ).

Very well done though and over the armour joints must have been a sod to do  8) 8)

cheers

James

haha...Maybe its the inquisition!

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!  Hiding in plain site at the top of the Sistine chapel!

haha  lol

Blue
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on March 25, 2014, 07:28:02 PM
Quote from: YPU on March 25, 2014, 05:43:35 PM
Kids these days painting dicks on the sides of their landraiders...

Considering the amount and frequency of dick moves displayed by the company and its tournament scene alike, it only seems appropriate.

On a more serious note, well done, although I am not really a fan of this kind of decoration - more for geometrical patterns, but then again, my favourite period is the Heresy (or alternatively a more Space-operatic, less "gothic" look for M40) - the less mobile churches, the better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on March 25, 2014, 07:42:40 PM
On a different note, I heard via Twitter that GW have given up/stopped all their social media connections. Haven't bothered to check though  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 25, 2014, 08:00:51 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on March 25, 2014, 07:42:40 PM
On a different note, I heard via Twitter that GW have given up/stopped all their social media connections. Haven't bothered to check though  ;D

cheers

James

Yep, it's true:

Quote
Games Workshop has not had much loving for Social Media for a while. A little over a year ago, they shut down their “main” Facebook page, though pages for individual Games Workshop stores, as well as sub-groups such as Black Library or Forge World remained.

Now those have been axed as well, along with Twitter Accounts and other Social Media channels GW has been using.

https://www.facebook.com/forgeworldUK
https://www.facebook.com/GamesWorkshopDigitalEditions‎
https://www.facebook.com/blacklibrary
https://twitter.com/blacklibrary
etc..
All gone!

Why?

I have no idea.

from: http://pinsofwar.com/games-workshop-leaves-facebook/

And as far as I can see, it's true. None of the pages work anymore.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 25, 2014, 08:04:28 PM
I'm surprised they actually had those - quite a few years ago they closed their own forum to avoid negative feedback.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on March 25, 2014, 08:09:37 PM
GW Fulchester (https://www.facebook.com/GWFulchester) is still up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on March 25, 2014, 08:13:46 PM
Hmmm, I can guess at the reasoning: Social media take employee effort (and thus cost the company money), but you can't sell anything on them. To the beancounters, they are an investment without return (as you can't monetize customer involvement and goodwill, they seem to think?!?) and are thus to be axed.
[sarcasm]Even worse, they involve actual, like, interactment and stuff with those walking wallets called customers, and you have to pretend they're just like actual humans as you do so....
Plus, they are part of the internets and the internets are evil, you see, they show our domesticated wallets where they can get our stuff for less money then we want from them, and even *gasp* tell them there are other games to spend their...our money on.[/sarcasm]
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 25, 2014, 08:15:37 PM
Games Workshop does some really, really odd things in an age of digital marketing. I thought the Digital Editions FB page was well run and actually somewhat informative, at least when I was following the Sororitas release.

Can anyone think of other brands that totally avoid marketing/advertising in anything other than a house organ or their own website?

Hell, even Defiance Games has an FB page  lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on March 25, 2014, 08:21:25 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on March 25, 2014, 08:15:37 PM
Hell, even Defiance Games has an FB page  lol

That's ALL they have, mind you...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 25, 2014, 08:25:45 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on March 25, 2014, 08:21:25 PM
That's ALL they have, mind you...

Right, and I'm certain it's hurting them more than helping :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 25, 2014, 11:48:10 PM
Quote from: YPU on March 25, 2014, 05:43:35 PM
Kids these days painting dicks on the sides of their landraiders...

Well that's just not fair. The Emperor did unite humanity against the witch and the xenos scum, you know.

Though considering some of the brown shapes I see surrounding that central figure, I can't tell if it's primarchs or a biting mockery in the fitting vein of the Emperor's Children.

(on a momentarily serious note, looks decent)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on March 26, 2014, 01:07:54 AM
Presumably the problem they have with facebook is that the customer can actually write stuff on it (?)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 26, 2014, 01:47:21 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on March 25, 2014, 08:15:37 PM
Can anyone think of other brands that totally avoid marketing/advertising in anything other than a house organ or their own website?

I can't think of any but I am also at a loss to think of any company that is working at cross purposes to their customers. The internet has been nothing but a funnel that people have used to heap shit on the company (for mostly legitimate reasons) and it can't really make any sense to engage customers when most of what you do is try to strong-arm them away from their money
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 26, 2014, 01:48:13 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on March 26, 2014, 01:07:54 AM
Presumably the problem they have with facebook is that the customer can actually write stuff on it (?)

Well they shut down their own forums over which they had total control so I can't imagine that Facebook and Twitter were much fun for them
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 26, 2014, 08:16:18 PM
Rumours over on bols that the new modular terrain kit is a "promethium" pipelube.same style as the modular trenches and new craters. Looks like the terrain that got taken off the side isn't coming back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on March 26, 2014, 08:29:52 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on March 25, 2014, 06:07:15 PM
lol

Shit camo though (unless you're in the Sistine Chapel  ;D ).

Very well done though and over the armour joints must have been a sod to do  8) 8)

cheers

James

Well, you know... 40K tanks always seem to be emerging from some kind of Gothic cathedral...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 29, 2014, 12:40:03 PM
Quote from: Modhail on March 25, 2014, 08:13:46 PM
To the beancounters, they are an investment without return

The idea of companies being run by accountants leaves me shaking my head, as much as the idea of companies being run by dreamers and artists. A successful company should be a blend of a spectrum of individual roles combining to make a whole. You can't just yank some cogs out of the machine and still expect it to run as successfully.

Honest feedback is invaluable to a company and through social media you get it in spades, for free. Marketting reports cost tens of thousands for a large company, and only give you a single snapshot of a targetted group. Compare that to a continual stream of reports from a broad range of people who care enough to want you to change. To me it's a no-brainer, so long as you've got the globes to accept criticism and be honest with people.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 29, 2014, 05:01:09 PM
new guard (stormtroopers mini army pre release? ) just dropped.taurox is actually pretty nice , but it still needs grav engines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on March 31, 2014, 09:48:17 PM
I fail to understand how a company that either sells toys, niche hobby items or collectables (depending on your view) can be so divorced from what its customers want? I'm self employed and I have a twitter stream and an active blog! How can GW not see the obvious benefits of social media for its type of company?  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 31, 2014, 10:25:02 PM
Quote from: Archie on March 31, 2014, 09:48:17 PM
I fail to understand how a company that either sells toys, niche hobby items or collectables (depending on your view) can be so divorced from what its customers want? I'm self employed and I have a twitter stream and an active blog! How can GW not see the obvious benefits of social media for its type of company?  :o

Well they did just hire a new pr guy (james hewitt i think) so maybe...JUST MAYBE ..they're prepping for something big.there have been rumors of forgeworld being sold in stores, we've seen the new plans for warhammer world including a forgeworld and bl store, so maybe they will roll out a whole new social media machine to go with it.
Who knows , they may even open up a new forum?!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 31, 2014, 11:59:02 PM
Quote from: Archie on March 31, 2014, 09:48:17 PM
I fail to understand how a company that either sells toys, niche hobby items or collectables (depending on your view) can be so divorced from what its customers want? I'm self employed and I have a twitter stream and an active blog! How can GW not see the obvious benefits of social media for its type of company?  :o

Because we aren't looking at it the way they are. These social initiatives simply open them up to criticism from their customers and lead to Facebook pages and Twitter feeds filled with negative comments.

Why would they want to continue that?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 01, 2014, 10:01:03 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 31, 2014, 11:59:02 PM
Because we aren't looking at it the way they are. These social initiatives simply open them up to criticism from their customers and lead to Facebook pages and Twitter feeds filled with negative comments.

Why would they want to continue that?

Because the Emperor has no Clothes.  The problem for GW is not the negative feedback, that is a symptom.  In a healthcare sense, it's like cutting off contact with your doctors because they are telling you that your personal habits are leading you to cancer.  The cancer is still coming.  But this is really telling as to the state of GW corporate culture.  My guess is that if you dont drink the Kool Aide at GW you dont last very long.  And in these types of corporate environments, truth and honest feedback are not in any way encouraged.  MAJOR fail for GW not merely as a company but at least in an American sense, as a Human Being.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 01, 2014, 12:04:00 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on April 01, 2014, 10:01:03 AM
My guess is that if you dont drink the Kool Aide at GW you dont last very long.  And in these types of corporate environments, truth and honest feedback are not in any way encouraged.

Going by what I've heard from ex-staff, business folk, and job descriptions (looking for people with the right attitude rather than anything else) your guess isn't terribly inaccurate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on April 01, 2014, 12:33:47 PM
I think GW thinks that people only complain about GW because they hear others complaint about GW so the more they prevent any kind of complaints on anything officially tied to GW the more satisfied their customers will be. It's completely ass backwards but there we go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 01, 2014, 01:09:44 PM
Quote from: Vermis on April 01, 2014, 12:04:00 PM
Going by what I've heard from ex-staff, business folk, and job descriptions (looking for people with the right attitude rather than anything else) your guess isn't terribly inaccurate.
I know a couple of people who went for interviews for store jobs and got told they didn't try and sell enough and were too customers centric. I also know a couple of ex managers of stores who aren't really hobbyist but are just career management types.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 01, 2014, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: nic-e on April 01, 2014, 01:09:44 PM
I know a couple of people who went for interviews for store jobs and got told they didn't try and sell enough and were too customers centric. I also know a couple of ex managers of stores who aren't really hobbyist but are just career management types.

I think hobbyists would not be very happy, it's just a very pushy environment.  By the third time I told my local GW guy that I was only there for primer, he left me alone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 01, 2014, 01:53:34 PM
Quote from: Vermis on April 01, 2014, 12:04:00 PM
Going by what I've heard from ex-staff, business folk, and job descriptions (looking for people with the right attitude rather than anything else) your guess isn't terribly inaccurate.

It's a very American attitude, I've worked for a couple of places like this in the States.  It's not fine any more to just come to work and do a good job, now you have to LOVE the company and whatever widgets they're peddling.  That's why I went back to higher ed to work.  Yeah, there's BS here too, but there is a decided lack of 'small mindedness'...mostly. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 01, 2014, 03:33:20 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on April 01, 2014, 01:53:34 PM
  It's not fine any more to just come to work and do a good job, now you have to LOVE the company and whatever widgets they're peddling. 

The successful companies realise that you inspire loyalty in your staff by, let's say, running the company in an ethical manner that concentrates on absolute excellence for the customer. The ones who don't quite get it, just try to force loyalty with threats and then look confused when the best employees go and work elsewhere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on April 01, 2014, 05:59:08 PM
I used to work in GW St Albans many years ago and had to sit through the 'If you don't recognise someone, go and talk to them' and 'try and sell two core boxes today' spiel. Utter bollocks  :-X

One weekend, the manager was away so it was myself and a younger (but had more experience) staff member in. It was quiet so I was on the till and the other lad was gaming. This bloke walks in (about 30 years old), went straight to the back, looked up at the Warhammer boxed set, came over to me and said 'Could you get that down for me please'. I did, he brought it tio the till and I ran it through. I didn't ask him any stupid fucking questions, just kept it polite and he walked out. The younger lad came over and said 'That's great, you've sold a core box set!', I told him that the bloke walked straight in and purchased it without any help from me (apart from getting it from the shelf) but he was very insistant.

It still baffles me to this day that the young tit couldn't figure out that the purchaser knew what he wanted form the get go  o_o

I can't stand it when someone pushes me when I walk into a shop. If I need help I'll bloody well ask for it  :-[

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 01, 2014, 06:15:40 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on April 01, 2014, 05:59:08 PM


I can't stand it when someone pushes me when I walk into a shop. If I need help I'll bloody well ask for it  :-[

cheers

James

Hear hear!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 01, 2014, 06:34:03 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on April 01, 2014, 05:59:08 PM
... sell two core boxes today ...

In my experience actual 'selling' at the point of purchase is of minimal effect. At branch level, you need to keep the shelves full, keep the shop clean and make sure everything is priced up and available. Get that right and the rest is gravy. A pushy staff member is worse than a disinterested one for making the customer walk away.

Beyond branch level, it's about getting the right stock into the stores at the right time with the right marketting and giving your managers a suitable budget to keep the staff levels reasonable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 01, 2014, 06:51:38 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on April 01, 2014, 05:59:08 PM
I can't stand it when someone pushes me when I walk into a shop. If I need help I'll bloody well ask for it  :-[

Me too, mate, but my missus says I remind her of Victor Meldrew when I get tetchy about it.....be warned!*
 :D





*You too could become a grumpy, tetchy, miserable git like me, one day..... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Damas on April 01, 2014, 10:05:20 PM
Quote from: Mason on April 01, 2014, 06:51:38 PM
You too could become a grumpy, tetchy, miserable git like me, one day....
:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 01, 2014, 11:20:04 PM
I for one am quite an introverted person when it comes to new people/striking up conversations with staff etc. I'm probably not the only one out there (I amuse myself by painting and playing with little metal men  lol ) The last thing I want in a hobby store is someone trying to sell me something I don't want. Yes be polite and ask me how my day is going, no don't tell me what I need, I know how much money I have, I know how what I want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on April 02, 2014, 01:23:08 AM
The thing I hate most is when you get one who thinks he's being friendly by calling you by your first name, when you've never told him your name. Like, he spots it on an order form or gets a peek when you take out your card to pay or something, and then just randomly chucks it into a sentence somewhere.

Protip: that's not "friendly"; it's jarring and creepy, and makes you seem like some kind of alien robot half-assedly trying to blend in with the humans.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grimmnar on April 02, 2014, 05:13:06 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on April 01, 2014, 05:59:08 PM
I can't stand it when someone pushes me when I walk into a shop. If I need help I'll bloody well ask for it  :-[

James
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on April 01, 2014, 06:15:40 PM
Hear hear!

Well see you cant just say that. I mean i get it and agree, but i have been in retail for 15 years now and seen all the tricks and training. I do agree for me though if i need something i will ask. I do however do like a greeting when i walk in. But as i work retail i take too many complaints weekly from customers that say no one bothers to greet or ask if they needed help or whatnot. In this manner you cant win.
In GW's ways that have been expressed before the above quoted comments i have seen first hand. Where it was when i worked for the company at the HQ in the mid-late 90's which included interviews to work in the retail stores to when i walked in said retail stores after i stopped working for them.
But bad customer service training and interactions as we all know are not alone in GW's mantra. Hell my company has its issues and i wish they would get off their asses so they can remove their heads and get back to basics and that is selling to the customer what the customer wants or may want.
Might be why i am trying to leave retail.

Grimm
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Peabody on April 02, 2014, 05:27:30 AM
Quote from: Grimmnar on April 02, 2014, 05:13:06 AM
I do however do like a greeting when I walk in.
A greeting and knowledgeable, available staff. It's so simple really.

Cubs, you are spot on about the point of purchase being a bit late for the actual sales pitch. If I make it to a brick and mortar store, I know why I'm there. I may need or want some advice about options.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on April 02, 2014, 06:54:45 AM
Quote from: Grimmnar on April 02, 2014, 05:13:06 AM
Well see you cant just say that. I mean i get it and agree, but i have been in retail for 15 years now and seen all the tricks and training. I do agree for me though if i need something i will ask. I do however do like a greeting when i walk in. But as i work retail i take too many complaints weekly from customers that say no one bothers to greet or ask if they needed help or whatnot. In this manner you cant win.

I don't think anyone objects to the "welcome to the shop, can I help you find anything?" type of interaction. It's aggressive and persistent used car salesman-like "upselling" behavior that annoys people.

Most of the time I try not to hold it against the worker. In the majority of cases they're being forced at pink-slip point to do that by the higher-ups, and it's every bit as awkward and humiliating for them as it is aggravating for you. Here in the US at least, many retail companies that do this have specific scripts and/or checklists of stuff a worker is required to say to each and every customer.

I've worked for two such companies, and although they were on the mild end of such behavior, it was still kind of mind bending what the... "people" who wrote those requirement thought passed for human interaction. It was like they were written by space aliens who's only knowledge of human speech came from watching TV commercials. Not a human who's only knowledge came from commercials: an alien. I cannot fathom the utter grey void of social skills and creativity that must have been the mind of the person who wrote that stuff. And then multiple other someones had to look at it and go "yup: seems legit" before it got passed down to the actual stores.

My time in retail taught me a lot of... interesting things about the sort of minds our retail and corporate culture self-selects for it's middle and upper management. I hope I never have to go back, because the whole thing is like a tapestry of "one more cigarette butt on the beach isn't hurting anyone" inethics and Wile E. Coyote clueless ambition.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on April 02, 2014, 09:14:29 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 01, 2014, 11:20:04 PM
I for one am quite an introverted person when it comes to new people/striking up conversations with staff etc. I'm probably not the only one out there (I amuse myself by painting and playing with little metal men  lol )

lol
I refer to my hobby as "Little Men" to my missus, this website is called "The little men website"  lol

For a hobby so "nerdy", which caters to introverted individuals I am surprised at the over the top response of some black/red shirts. Don't they scare people away??? I know I feel a little like a Sand Person when ever I walk into a shop.* I know getting one pot of paint will turn into 3 paints and possibly primer, but a box of X miniatures is not on the cards, especially not the brand new super cool huge diorama mini that WD has featured, and I will not be getting the mag either. Im a little apprehensive as I walk in (and only partly because some one I know may see me walk in there ;) ). The other hobby shop 3 doors down has normal friendly people who don't want to upsell, but give the customer exactly what they want, and bend over to get in anything that is needed. That is what I want and need - oh and their prices are placed on this planet not Saturn. They even discount older products! :D :D

*"They are easily startled.." Ben Kenobi

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on April 02, 2014, 09:22:40 AM
The GW store in Romford is pretty good. Every time I have been(Only 2 or three times) in there the guy has greeted me and asked if I needed any help. If I say no he says if you need anything just ask and leaves me to it. If I say yes he will give me whatever advice or help I need and help me find whatever I need to. He also just seems like a decent guy to shoot the shit with too. Doesn't feel like he is pressuring me constantly to buy stuff. When people pressure me to buy stuff it makes me instantly reluctant to buy anything and I am far more likley to either get exactly what I came for and leave without buying anything or grab what I need elsewhere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 02, 2014, 09:25:05 AM
Quote from: Mr. Peabody on April 02, 2014, 05:27:30 AM
A greeting and knowledgeable, available staff. It's so simple really.

Cubs, you are spot on about the point of purchase being a bit late for the actual sales pitch. If I make it to a brick and mortar store, I know why I'm there. I may need or want some advice about options.

Yeah. I mean, the staff need to know helping the customer supersedes anything else they were doing and they need to be approachable. As said, a quick greeting and a smile doesn't hurt anyone. I always told my staff to keep a cleaning cloth in their pocket and to keep busy when there was nothing else to do. For some reason, customers are always more comfortable interrupting someone doing a menial task to ask questions than walking up to a statue at the till.

But if you've hired the right people and let them know what's expected, scripts and 'selling techniques' are out-dated and patronising. I always tried to underline the importance of honesty as well. Obviously you don't rubbish your own stock, but if a customer genuinely wants help, you lose in the long run by pushing an unsuitable product on them. Try to get a picture of what they're after and give a couple of likely options.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on April 02, 2014, 09:31:22 AM
I agree with not wanting to hold it against the worker. I know people who used to and still do work at game and they are pushed very hard to upsell. I don't blame the staff for it they need their jobs but any time I get one of those "Let us know how your shopping experience was" type of messages from Game I will complain about this kind of company policy. I will visit a store less if they act this way which is a shame as I enjoy going into game stores and looking around to see if something catches my eye and often don't mind paying a few quid extra to get the game there and then instead of in a few days (less so with miniatures as even if I got in then and there it wouldn't get painted then and there) but if you create a shop environment where I can wander in and look around without being pressured I will continue to visit and buy from there, even if I don't buy anything this time. Create an environment where I am made uncomfortable if I do not purchase anything there and I will visit less and buy less, also in a place with that environment I will have no problem seeing something I like there and going home to order it online instead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on April 02, 2014, 10:07:30 AM
Quote from: Cubs on April 02, 2014, 09:25:05 AM
For some reason, customers are always more comfortable interrupting someone doing a menial task to ask questions than walking up to a statue at the till.

As one such customer myself, I can explain (for my part, at least). My logic is usually that unless I'm the only cat in the store, there's a fair chance that while he/she's helping me, another customer will come up to the counter ready to check out. At which point the customer is stuck waiting and wondering if the cashier will be with them in 30 seconds, or 15 minutes (or if the cashier's gone with me back out onto the floor, they're left wondering where the cashier's gone or if there even is a cashier at the moment). I've been that customer before, and while it's not a big deal, it can in it's more extreme cases be aggravating, so I don't want to do that to him/her.

On the worker's end, I figure if another customer comes up and the cashier's not there, he/she might get in trouble (depending on management's attitude and whether the other customer seeks them out), and if a customer comes up and the cashier's busy doing non-cashiering (and thus unpredictable in duration) things with me, the cashier is placed under tension between two different customers who he can't ignore. Again, I've been that cashier too, and it's only a big deal in extreme cases, but I'd still rather avoid causing any snarls.

I've had it happen where multiple people have come up at the same time, and immediately my help need becomes the proverbial old lady with 50 tins of cat food in the express isle. Thus I tend to treat the till as a dedicated job, and people working the floor (who are not already engaged with a customer) as flexible, since inanimate tasks like sweeping or stocking can be paused and resumed without causing a single-tier priority conflict.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on April 02, 2014, 11:59:37 AM
When I worked in retail if I was on the til and someone asked me for help I either had to answer them or point them in a direction of the item they needed or call someone over in order to take them to where they needed to go as I couldn't really leave the till for the most part, so its understandable that people would prefer to ask people on shop floor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on April 02, 2014, 12:42:46 PM
You guys do realise we are currently putting more thought and consideration into proper customer approach/interaction than GW does?  ;D

Now I've never worked in retail myself but I did do a stint at telephone customer service, and can tell you they seek out a similar breed of miscreant to write their mandatory scripts.
Those asinine stock phrases that were either so convoluted you can never speak them sounding anything near natural or seem to have been tailor-made to make you sound and feel like the biggest tool possible. I can only imagine how bad it must be to have to say such things right in front of someone, with (an attempt at) a straight face.
Ever since that job I've been a lot more understanding of such impositions on a shop workers natural behaviour or actual retail skills. Mostly I try to see it as the regrettable ritual of modern commerce and kindly follow along the automated call and response routine before initiating meaningful/productive conversation. (Surprisingly most shop staff give rather clear cues that the ritual is over and you can now start interacting with a human being, once you know to look for them.)
 
There are a few things I still simply cannot abide when I go into a store though. Don't ignore me, or worse, hound me for a sale. Don't circle around me giving me hawkeyes, I'm not a shoplifter and dislike the surveillance. Don't give me the chummy "best friend" routine, especially if I've barely set my first five steps into the shop. And for the love of God, actually listen to my response when I answer your questions!!!  >:(
I've only once have had all these peeves triggered within a single visit to a shop. Guess which company that was...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on April 02, 2014, 02:23:58 PM
Quote from: carlos13th on April 02, 2014, 09:22:40 AM
The GW store in Romford is pretty good. Every time I have been(Only 2 or three times) in there the guy has greeted me and asked if I needed any help. If I say no he says if you need anything just ask and leaves me to it. If I say yes he will give me whatever advice or help I need and help me find whatever I need to. He also just seems like a decent guy to shoot the shit with too. Doesn't feel like he is pressuring me constantly to buy stuff. When people pressure me to buy stuff it makes me instantly reluctant to buy anything and I am far more likley to either get exactly what I came for and leave without buying anything or grab what I need elsewhere.

This is perhaps a good example of the fact that there are good salespeople and bad ones. The problem GW stores (and manny others) is that they hire bad salepeople who have no clue as to how to interact with other people. And could just as easily be working at Mcdonalds. They are basically just managing the cash register and regurgitating a script.

The good salespeople out there are those that you don't even realise are selling you stuff. I have a local clothes shop where I often end up buying waay more than I intended. Even if I go in with the distinct intention of only buying socks I end up walking out with a shirt a belt and some pants. Because the guy who works there is really really good at his job. He knows his stock, and most importantly he knows how to read people. He is friendly and casual and he does not apply any preasure in his sales. Or he does it so gently that you do not notice.
And I keep comming back to that shop. Because the guy is really friendly and nice and even though i know I end up buying more than intendend it makes the whole proces of clothes shopping almost enjoyable. Normally I loathe clotes shopping.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on April 02, 2014, 04:30:02 PM
Quote from: Connectamabob on April 02, 2014, 01:23:08 AM
Protip: that's not "friendly"; it's jarring and creepy, and makes you seem like some kind of alien robot half-assedly trying to blend in with the humans.


Hahahahahahaha, I may have laughed too hard at that. I had that once and when I asked he said he read my mind, than said no i saw it on your order form. He was a bit creepy that manager.

As for their customer service they are too pushy for me so I just answer in riddles or something completely different until they wander off....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 02, 2014, 05:10:36 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on April 02, 2014, 02:23:58 PM
The problem GW stores (and manny others) is that they hire bad salepeople who have no clue as to how to interact with other people.

Well, they pay absolute peanuts. You're hired because you're a GW fan, not because you know what you're doing. If you do, it's a bonus. I don't think it's any surprise that the introduction of the minimum wage coincided with some brutal cutting of staff in stores.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 02, 2014, 08:48:05 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 02, 2014, 05:10:36 PM
Well, they pay absolute peanuts. You're hired because you're a GW fan, not because you know what you're doing. If you do, it's a bonus. I don't think it's any surprise that the introduction of the minimum wage coincided with some brutal cutting of staff in stores.

qft.
I earn more as minor admin staff in the nhs than some gw managers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 02, 2014, 09:21:32 PM
Yeah, I enquired out of interest one time when they had a 'Manager Wanted' sign in the window of GW Cardiff. At the time I was a shop manager myself and was shocked to find I was on nearly 50% more than the salary they were offering ... some of my shop assistants were on more than the GW manager wage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 02, 2014, 09:54:01 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 02, 2014, 09:21:32 PM
Yeah, I enquired out of interest one time when they had a 'Manager Wanted' sign in the window of GW Cardiff. At the time I was a shop manager myself and was shocked to find I was on nearly 50% more than the salary they were offering ... some of my shop assistants were on more than the GW manager wage.

it's a shame, because i've never had a bad experience with gw staff and i feel like alot of them really do go above and beyond their job to help make you feel welcome (including tea biscuits and birthday cake ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on April 03, 2014, 11:10:53 PM
I've spent 14 years in the recruitment world first as a headhunter and more recently as a trainer. I am pretty well hardened to sales pitches and sale people (given I write them and train people to use them) but even I hesitate to go into GW stores because of the insistent questions and forced conversations.

I much prefer to buy from people on LAF!

GW really have the balance wrong although I am impressed that they are so consistently able to turn out trained staff who stick to the rules of engagement. Its just a shame their rules are really irritating!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 10, 2014, 03:06:25 AM
The best way to explain the 40k fluff, in a minute and a half:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MeVxKZBOfM
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 10, 2014, 03:12:53 AM
btw, the website overhaul has begun with teasers of a new plastic mini.remake of a 1991 space marine captain. (apparently called an le4 captain, meaning he lives in the same post zone as me lol )

I'm thinking links forgeworld and black library (or direct sales) and SOME sort of customer input?even if it's just comments on the whats new today section.also going to take a guess at there being a place for articles and such on the new site.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on April 10, 2014, 07:56:43 AM
Lots of grumbling on twitter about it...

I'm not really that bothered  ::) :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 10, 2014, 08:36:36 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on April 10, 2014, 07:56:43 AM
Lots of grumbling on twitter about it...

I'm not really that bothered  ::) :D

Twitter...?

Is that made in plastic or Finecast?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on April 10, 2014, 08:39:51 AM
Quote from: Mason on April 10, 2014, 08:36:36 AM
Twitter...?

Is that made in plastic or Finecast?



 lol Silly boy
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 10, 2014, 08:42:56 AM
Quote from: Mason on April 10, 2014, 08:36:36 AM
Twitter...?

Is that made in plastic or Finecast?



LOL!  I had the same question Mate. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 10, 2014, 09:39:02 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on April 10, 2014, 08:42:56 AM
LOL!  I had the same question Mate. :D

 lol

I also wonder if those in power at GW have considered send a C+D letter to Twitter telling them to stop using their IP.....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 10, 2014, 10:10:29 AM
Quote from: Mason on April 10, 2014, 09:39:02 AM
lol

I also wonder if those in power at GW have considered send a C+D letter to Twitter telling them to stop using their IP.....



It would not surprise me....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on April 10, 2014, 10:25:34 AM
Well done GW, well done. All accounts have been deleted  o_o

What a strange thing to do...

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 10, 2014, 10:32:15 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on April 10, 2014, 10:25:34 AM
Well done GW, well done. All accounts have been deleted  o_o

What a strange thing to do...

cheers

James

Pride comes before the fall....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on April 10, 2014, 02:10:15 PM
You know, I've had a root round the new and "improved" website, and I'm quite underwhelmed. I'd thought they'd use the opportunity to finally fix that mess of a navigation system they used.... :?  Instead they replaced it with the same steaming pile of **** but with checkboxes added. I mean really, text based site navigation in this day and age? They should have looked at competitor's sites and bits-selling sites, they generally have a more pleasant navigation scheme. But I forget that those sites don't exist in the mind of GW.

I find the new visual style of the site rather barren and uninviting. Plus they killed off all remaining meaningful content (not least of all their FAQ and errata!), it's just a tool for shovelling product now...  :-X

Edit: Oh, this is just so...special. I just found this on their page showing off the limited edition Space Marine Skullfetishist:
Quote
With this offer, you will receive one free Space Marine Captain - Limited Edition, Web Exclusive miniature. If you cancel your qualifying order, or any part of it, you must return the free miniature to us at your cost
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on April 10, 2014, 02:46:26 PM
How could you cancel the qualifying order yet already have the mini in hand to return? Wouldn't they ship the free mini with the qualifying order? Wouldn't they have to ship the free mini days before the qualifying order was even placed in order for it to arrive in time for you to cancel the qualifying order before it shipped? o_o

Is their head of shipping by any chance played by Roger Delgado?

...Or are they implying that if you cancel the qualifying order, they will go ahead and ship you the free mini anyway, even if it's the only thing in the package... with the expectation that you will turn around and ship it right back (at your own expense, no less).

What...? I... What???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on April 10, 2014, 03:11:22 PM
Yes, now add the realisation that they were apparently worried enough about such scenarios occuring that they felt the need to warn you beforehand...  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on April 10, 2014, 03:43:22 PM
Presumably it refers to this.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Returns

I am unsatisfied with Advanced Space Crusade. Do you think i can still return it?

Edit:  just noticed this
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Famous-Familiars
Did not know they had started knocking those out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 10, 2014, 07:37:58 PM
WTF!! Are they bringing back in old citadel stuff at seemingly good prices (in comparison)
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Champions-of-Chaos

Might get these. They are metal.

Edit: oh wait I was looking at the price in pounds. Changed to NZD and £15 changes to $48.
Usual exchange rate would make it $30
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 11, 2014, 12:24:51 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 10, 2014, 07:37:58 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Champions-of-Chaos

Quote
back in the midst of time

 o_o  >:(  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on April 11, 2014, 12:41:53 AM
I seem to remember those Jes Goodwin champions appearing oin their site last year or the year before. They had the dragon masters dragon on there for a while too and then it disappeared. Maybe they are just toying with us.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 11, 2014, 04:46:07 AM
Cn you return things if you did a crap paint job and want to give it another go of a fresh set?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on April 11, 2014, 07:27:40 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 11, 2014, 04:46:07 AM
Cn you return things if you did a crap paint job and want to give it another go of a fresh set?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 11, 2014, 02:07:21 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on April 11, 2014, 12:41:53 AM
I seem to remember those Jes Goodwin champions appearing oin their site last year or the year before. They had the dragon masters dragon on there for a while too and then it disappeared. Maybe they are just toying with us.  o_o

Probably selling old stock of metal figures that they know have resale value. Limited stock and then they are gone I suspect
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on April 12, 2014, 10:50:35 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on April 10, 2014, 03:43:22 PM
Presumably it refers to this.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Returns

I am unsatisfied with Advanced Space Crusade. Do you think i can still return it?


Would like to know the answer of their return department  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on April 12, 2014, 05:28:22 PM
Would be interesting to see what they come up with.

Quote from: beefcake on April 11, 2014, 04:46:07 AM
Cn you return things if you did a crap paint job and want to give it another go of a fresh set?
Maybe it would help to tell them they are pro painted.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 12, 2014, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: Belgian on April 12, 2014, 10:50:35 AM
Would like to know the answer of their return department  ;D

To be fair to gw, returns and customer service are one area they really go all out on, nd i'm sure they'd have a good chuckle and actually try and help in some way :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 22, 2014, 11:27:28 AM
...I'm surprised to see that nobody's yet complained about the exorbitant cost and questionable quality of the new Citadel Tools!  :o

I read the specs and found myself wondering if the styling was worth a 400-500% mark-up over the same tools bought from a hardware store.

In particular, the clippers and the knife seem to the most "important" tools for GW's plastics, and I don't see that the quality of either is very high (always a particular shame with tools that are supposed to be sharp, and are therefore usually considered dangerous).

For example, why are the clippers stainless steel rather than proper tool-grade hardened steel, or why are they bypass cutters rather than flush cutters? The knife blade appears to have poor clearance from the handle, and the shape looks like it would be difficult to make delicate precision cuts with.

If you're asking people to pay those prices (and make a claim like "the best hobby tools in the world"), then they really should be better than they are.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 22, 2014, 11:40:57 AM
Interesting, i have 2 pair of gw cutters and they are both flush cutting tool steel. In fact i have used one of them forgoldsmithing work as decent flush cuttera werent available localy for a while.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 22, 2014, 01:43:50 PM
Like I said on a couple of other forums, I'm interested in that mould line tool. I use knife blades but I wouldn't mind seeing if this thing makes scraping a bit easier still. (Mould lines on GB Saxons almost drove me batty) I've looked at the suggested alternatives of deburring tools and seam scrapers: the rotating crank-handle of the former turns me off a bit, and the latter are not much cheaper here in blighty and frequently more expensive.

Also, they've switched to a wax 5/zahle for one of their new sculpting tools! :o I'm not in the market for many more wax carvers, but I want a look at that one anyway, see how good it is. (or isn't) Should see it this afternoon.

Everything else: I have all that junk anyway, non-GW brand and non-GW price tag. Meh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 22, 2014, 05:28:25 PM
@ Vermis:

Seam scraper - You can:

1) Use the back of a heavy-duty Xacto blade. Try and avoid the point, and you will avoid a lot more of the flex. I've done this for years!

2) Use any flat hard sharp-edged tool for scraping seams. For example, the non-machined part of a file (usually towards the handle), half a pair of scissors, etc.

3) Buy a really good purpose-made tool like this (http://www.air-craft.net/acatalog/Seam-Scraper.html) one. Not cheaper, but is is very sharp-edged (will clean mouldlines off metal miniatures), and sharp-pointed (will clean 6mm models) and is adjustable in length.

Wax #5:

Is it that hard to find/expensive to buy? ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 22, 2014, 07:20:27 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 22, 2014, 05:28:25 PM
1) Use the back of a heavy-duty Xacto blade. Try and avoid the point, and you will avoid a lot more of the flex. I've done this for years!

The tool GW sells is similar to an aluminium burr remover and it actually works wonders for the type of plastic that GW uses for their miniatures. Much better IMO than a hobby knife or similar. The price is stupid but the tool does work.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 22, 2014, 11:34:41 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on April 22, 2014, 07:20:27 PM
The tool GW sells is similar to an aluminium burr remover and it actually works wonders for the type of plastic that GW uses for their miniatures. Much better IMO than a hobby knife or similar. The price is stupid but the tool does work.

Oh, I'm sure all the tools work adequately!  :)

In fact, 20 years ago when GW started selling a few hobby tools for a *much* smaller mark-up, I got a pin-vice drill that I still use to this day. As a youngster, I didn't have access to many hobby stores within reasonable travel distance, and the internet wasn't yet something you did shopping on (or had much access to out of school).

However, there has been a huge trend lately (and not just by GW) to find hobby "solutions" for situations that were never really a problem in the first place just so that you can be sold something you don't need at a massive mark-up.

A successful scraper is just any sharp-edged metal tool with sufficient rigidity and hardness to scrape a plastic model with. The back of a knife or a pair of scissors is every bit as good, and I'll bet everyone on this forum has those tools at home already. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 22, 2014, 11:38:01 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 22, 2014, 11:34:41 PM
A successful scraper is just any sharp-edged metal tool with sufficient rigidity and hardness to scrape a plastic model with.

Have you used the tool in question?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 23, 2014, 12:19:50 AM
Quote from: Vermis on April 22, 2014, 01:43:50 PM
Should see it this afternoon.

Or maybe I'll see 'em after the shops get them in next week. :-I

Major Gilbear: all true and reasonable, though I've tried the back of a couple of knives, at least, and it didn't work so great. I'll see if I can get a demo of the mould line remover, tho.
I don't mind buying extra(neous) tools and gadgets anyway. Tube cutters, plastic scribers, balsa strippers, five knife handles with at least half a dozen different types of blade... it's like my version of a barely-touched-but-growing DIY toolbox, although sometimes this happens. (http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/090705.html) A mould line remover would be a drop in the ocean. :D

Wax 5s are hard to find if that's what you go looking for. ;) Since I started mini conversions and sculpting I've occasionally heard that it's the 'holy grail' of metal sculpting tools, a great shape for manipulating putty etc.; but I never saw any webshops selling it, or pointers to same. Then a chance mention on an old forum post included the word 'Zahle': turned out it's the more commonly-used dentistry name of the tool. Turns out most of the wax carver types you get in cheap, generic sets have specific, sometimes exotic names. (http://minisculpture.co.uk/index.php?topic=623.0)
I don't know if the Zahle is the magic ingredient for sculpting - I have one now, but in the past I did okay with a Vehe and now my main carver is a modified LeCron (the GW tool from two generations back, ground down to proper edges) - but if GW is now selling a version of it, I wonder if it'd be more useful for would-be putty-pushers, or not, or if it's a big ol' chunky lump of metal like the last two.

'Course, if you're interested, you can easily get cheaper, finer, dental-quality Zahles, LeCrons, whatever, on ebay and retail webshops anyway. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 23, 2014, 07:03:07 AM
Say, does anyone have a recommendation for a really high-quality needle file? I can't find anything in local hobby stores - even the "nice" files are made-in-china stuff. The better ones are adequate, but I'd like at least one or two of the real thing.

My ideal needle file, if I can only have/afford one is one that tapers to a point, and which is flat on one side, and a mild half-oval profile on the other (so a very flat letter 'D' in cross-section).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 23, 2014, 07:04:46 AM
By the by, it appears that Wood Elves are indeed getting a new book. I guess so much for the rumours of their getting axed?


(http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8390&d=1398113001)

(http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8392&d=1398113002)

(http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8393&d=1398113003)

(http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8391&d=1398113002)

(http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=191930&d=1398217861)

Rules: http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?36070-Wood-Elves-Rumor-Roundup
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grimmnar on April 23, 2014, 07:10:02 AM
Fram, never believe rumors. Especially ones about GW product.
And you might wanna curb those pics of rules and the like. Pretty sure they are going to get yanked when the moderator sees it.

Grimm
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on April 23, 2014, 07:32:36 AM
For sculpting tools and moldline removers. Ask your dentist next time you are there. I got some very cheap from my dentist. Once the dentist has used his tools on one patient he has to send them of to get sterilised and that costs money, therefore they are happy to get rid of the tools so they can just buy new and sterile ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 23, 2014, 08:07:01 AM
About time the wood elves got a look in. Not sure how I like the new look. It's different but looks more like some sort of demonically possessed tree. Good if you want to do dark elves of the woods.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on April 23, 2014, 09:05:40 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on April 23, 2014, 07:03:07 AM
Say, does anyone have a recommendation for a really high-quality needle file? I can't find anything in local hobby stores - even the "nice" files are made-in-china stuff. The better ones are adequate, but I'd like at least one or two of the real thing.

My ideal needle file, if I can only have/afford one is one that tapers to a point, and which is flat on one side, and a mild half-oval profile on the other (so a very flat letter 'D' in cross-section).

I use the gale force 9 needle file 5 piece set and quite like it. Think it cost me about 6 quid.

Its out of stock atm here

http://www.firestormgames.co.uk/5-piece-diamond-micro-files&search=file
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 23, 2014, 09:18:42 AM
Heh, I had kind of given up on my wood elves, or rather all the talk of them getting whacked was a rather good excuse not to shell out on them any more. I might just get a few of the new models if they are any good, tough with the current new iterations of fantasy half the stuff often is far to over the top for my taste. (dwarf heli-sub?)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 23, 2014, 10:23:55 AM
@ Pixelgeek:

Which tool? The GW Scraper? It was demoed to me in store years ago when it came out and Failcast was new. I wasn't impressed then, and GW have stated that this new one is the same thing with a new handle.

If you mean the other scrapers (like the one I linked to), then yes - I bought it and use it quite often now.

Have you used many scrapers on models? If so, what did you find was the best value/most useful?


@ Vermis:

Yeah, I kind of assumed that the "Wax 5" was the "W&NS7 Size 1" of the sculpting world! :P However, you also covered my next comment which was why not use dental tools (which is what most "hobby sculpting tools" are in fact).

Personally, I am disappointed that GW wasted their effort on the nylon spatula tool when a silicone-tipped tool would have been a far more useful inclusion in the set. I mean, you can use pretty much anything appropriate to gloop textured paint onto a base (even coffee stirrer sticks).


@ Dr Zombie:

Excellent point, although I suspect that many dentists just use an autoclave now. Given the relatively high cost of such tools and the fact that they're usually medical-grade stainless steel, I doubt anyone sends old tools off to be sterilised anymore.

Still, worth asking as I'm sure they are likely to have some older tools that they don't mind parting with.


@ Fram Framson:

Files are tricky. You usually get two types: ones with cut faces, and ones with abrasives bonded to them.

For our hobby purposes, the cut files are usually better and last longer.

The quality is less important than with other tools though. Partly, this is because if you file metal (especially lead) models, the file gets all gummed-up and loses its usefulness.

If you chalk your files (as in, lightly run them over a piece of ordinary chalk - one stroke per face), the material arising from filing doesn't get stuck so readily. With a stiff brush, you can just clean down the files ready for next time; even cheap files last a long time like this!

Chalking can make a bit more mess though, and can remove some of the "bite" from the file. I don't really mind, as the filings make a mess anyway, and the softer abrasion is kinder to the models. It does also reduce the difference in quality between "good" files and "bad" files, so as long as they are not truly awful, I'd go with the cheap Chinese ones.

Based on that, I'd visit a good DIY or Electrical store and ask them what cut needle files they have. Or, if GF9 do a 5-peice set for $6, go with that.

If you happen to file lots of resin, plastic, etc, I'd swirl the files in some paint stripper from time to time to dissolve all the old build-up off them. I used to use Nitromors, but they the new formulation's rather pants now.

________________________________________________________

Re: Wood Elves

I rather liked the old metals and plastics (from... 6E?), and actually feel that the plastics still hold up very well today (which is rare, as a lot of WHFB plastic troops from that time were a bit poor).

I do think that the WE need an update badly though; they are out of date by two editions, and used to have lots of metal models in the old ranges. Clearly, some new plastic kits are in order!

The new treeman... Hmm. I like that they are a bit more deamonic than the old (4-5E) treemen, although I never disliked the 6E metal one like many folks did. I do think that these new treemen may have moved a bit too far from looking like trees though! Durthu waving a huge glowing sword around isn't really doing it for me either. I'll wait for better pictures before I pass final judgement on them.  :?

The new (plastic?) characters look great - of they are not £20 each, I'd let to get some.

I hope the plastic Glade Guard, Glade Riders, and Dryads remain though. I really like those, and with just a few extra bits and some thought, you can make a complete army just from them.  8)

I wonder what we'll see to replace the treekin, Wild Riders, and Eternal Guard though? I'm a bit worried given the increasingly silly direction a lot of new GW stuff seems to have gone. Do we think that the eagles and Hawk Riders will go or be replaced? And will the WE get a unit riding stags?

In any event, I'm glad to see the WE getting some love at last. I always liked them (especially from 6E onwards, and I have a force of them!), but also felt that the general WHFB rules have been somewhat unsuitable/unkind to them over the various editions.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 23, 2014, 10:50:20 AM
Quote
Which tool? The GW Scraper? It was demoed to me in store years ago when it came out and Failcast was new. I wasn't impressed then, and GW have stated that this new one is the same thing with a new handle.

The blueshirt I talked to yesterday said the new one was made of stiffer or harder steel, because the old finecast cleaner blade was slightly flexible. I'll wait to see for myself whether that makes it actually useful though.

Ta for the chalking tip. :) I'll give that a try next time.

Wood elves: I glanced at the first pic and thought "oh, there's a 40K daemon prince on the cover, but what's that got to do with wood elves?"
Not sure if I like it or if it'll grow on me (I like me treemen a bit more... burarum than hissss), but good to see the welves haven't been cast by the wayside like so many mock-assyrian dwarfs and battle nuns.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 23, 2014, 11:12:39 AM
Quote from: Vermis on April 23, 2014, 10:50:20 AM
The blueshirt I talked to yesterday said the new one was made of stiffer or harder steel, because the old finecast cleaner blade was slightly flexible. I'll wait to see for myself whether that makes it actually useful though.

Do also try the scissors trick. Pointy ones (preferably the old-fashioned sort with a screw that you can undo) are most useful as they can reach where you need them. I think you might be pleasantly surprised! ;)

Quote from: Vermis on April 23, 2014, 10:50:20 AM
good to see the welves haven't been cast by the wayside like so many mock-assyrian dwarfs and battle nuns.
I seem to have a knack for liking/collecting armies that consistently get marginalised or dumped... At least I never fell for Squats though (well... I did for Epic actually. Sigh.).  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on April 23, 2014, 12:53:21 PM
I really like the wood elf glade guard. Would only pick them up second hand though.  Cannot justify paying GW prices?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 23, 2014, 01:04:15 PM
Quote from: carlos13th on April 23, 2014, 12:53:21 PM
I really like the wood elf glade guard. Would only pick them up second hand though.  Cannot justify paying GW prices?
Totally agree/understand.

That said, they are rumoured to be getting a re-release. If this is true, and like other plastics, that means that the price will be going up and the box contents will be going down.

Therefore if you *really* want some, past experience tells me now is the time to be looking before it's too late. For example, you can get them here (http://elementgames.co.uk/wargames-and-miniatures/fantasy-miniatures-games/warhammer-fantasy/wood-elves/wood-elf-glade-guard) for £17 (for 16 models) new. Not a terrible price really, and if you look around, I'll bet you can improve on that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on April 23, 2014, 01:48:05 PM
I don't know why there was a question mark at the end of my post.



You make a compelling argument I like them but have no use for them ATM and any hobby money I do have will be spent on Samurai. I don't really want them but they would be nice to have, I will pick them up one day second hand, or if they are not available I won't.

Just over a pound a model isn't terrible. Though of course that's about the same price as metal perry Samurai.

Still thanks for the advice, for anyone who has been on the fence about picking them up it's probably a great idea to do it now you are right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 23, 2014, 02:15:44 PM
@ carlos13th:

...Sorry if that sounded like a sales pitch BTW, I was in fact just trying to be helpful! I'm sure you didn't read it that way, but still. :-X

I completely understand not getting side-tracked on other projects... And yeah, the Perry figures are very good value (their plastics for example  :-*).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on April 23, 2014, 02:24:38 PM
I didn't think it was at all. More of a public service announcement.

My progress is slow enough as it buying other ranges would be an expensive dust collector.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 23, 2014, 04:00:11 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on April 23, 2014, 07:03:07 AM
Say, does anyone have a recommendation for a really high-quality needle file? I can't find anything in local hobby stores - even the "nice" files are made-in-china stuff. The better ones are adequate, but I'd like at least one or two of the real thing.

My ideal needle file, if I can only have/afford one is one that tapers to a point, and which is flat on one side, and a mild half-oval profile on the other (so a very flat letter 'D' in cross-section).

Check your hardware store. I picked up a set of small files quite some time ago and they have been a treasure
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 23, 2014, 04:04:42 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 23, 2014, 10:23:55 AM
Have you used many scrapers on models? If so, what did you find was the best value/most useful?

Depends on what I am working on. The GW hard plastic cleans very nicely with their tool (you should also be able to find generic versions online) but whomever demoed it on Finecast was a twit. Its not good for that at all. Its a pretty limited tool in the it doesn't even work with the restic that folks like Mantic use. I gave up using a sharp blade on my hard plastic figs as soon as I got it. No worries about accidentally nicking the fig and the smooths the mould lines out well.

For restic I sadly use a sharp knife and prayer. I hate that stuff.

Everything else is a file and a knife.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 23, 2014, 04:06:43 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 23, 2014, 10:23:55 AM
@ Vermis:

BTW the system here lets you multi-quote numerous people in the same topic. Under your reply form field is a list of all the previous posts and an "Insert Quote" link. So I can easily quote you and then quote Vermis

Quote from: Vermis on April 23, 2014, 10:50:20 AM
The blueshirt I talked to yesterday said the new one was made of stiffer or harder steel, because the old finecast cleaner blade was slightly flexible. I'll wait to see for myself whether that makes it actually useful though.

From the same reply form.

Its darned handy when you want to quote multiple people in the same reply.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 23, 2014, 04:32:57 PM
@ Pixelgeek:

I know all about multi-quote, but sometimes I don't want to bulk up a long post with quotes. Thanks either way though; seeing your triple-post despite the multi-quote feature made me chuckle too! ;)

______________________________________

Rumours abound that the Glade Guard, Glade Riders, and Dryads will all be getting "new releases". So... Smaller number in a box with a higher price I guess?  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 23, 2014, 05:42:20 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 23, 2014, 11:12:39 AM
Do also try the scissors trick. Pointy ones (preferably the old-fashioned sort with a screw that you can undo) are most useful as they can reach where you need them. I think you might be pleasantly surprised! ;)

Just so happened I had a pair sitting beside me here, along with the plastic minis from the back-of-the-knife trial, and... yeah, that doesn't work too badly! It ain't unscrewing though, it's got something more like a rivet with a slot in one end.

After this I might give them a pass with my wee diamond blade sharpener, too. Hurrah for gadgets! :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 23, 2014, 06:27:35 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 23, 2014, 04:32:57 PM
Thanks either way though; seeing your triple-post despite the multi-quote feature made me chuckle too! ;)

I actually prefer to single quote but some people don't ;-)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 26, 2014, 02:34:27 PM
just spotted this,new FW Kit  ::) i've seen better Scratchbuilts,not to mention the 68£ Price Tag  :o :o
(http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/large/Krios2.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 26, 2014, 02:39:39 PM
 :o :o

Feck!

That IS hideous.
 :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 26, 2014, 02:45:57 PM
The new Steampunk line?

Needs more Kogzzzzz!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on April 26, 2014, 02:53:30 PM
I actually like that design. A Grimdark steampunk.

The pricetag however o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on April 26, 2014, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 26, 2014, 02:45:57 PM
Needs more Kogzzzzz!

 lol lol

Although I actually quite like that. Not for 40K or VSF, just as a thing in itself and £68 isn't that bad a price really.

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 26, 2014, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 26, 2014, 02:45:57 PM

Needs more Kogzzzzz!

Quote from: jimbibbly on April 26, 2014, 02:56:37 PM
lol lol

made me laugh aswell  lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 26, 2014, 03:49:12 PM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 26, 2014, 02:34:27 PM
i've seen better Scratchbuilts...

Really? Care to share some links? Those must be really amazing pieces of work.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 26, 2014, 04:55:56 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on April 26, 2014, 03:49:12 PM
Really? Care to share some links? Those must be really amazing pieces of work.

see for yourself  ;)

(http://gravengames.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/iron-guard-teachmarine-thunderfire-conversion-scratchbuild-12.jpg)

(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x61/Srennit02/abc/92373dc2.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSqqLBOyH5qtJH7kGDa5c6iY91NVgFXBu_zKBSiTClXOpegcYtQ)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ze1h0-RFQ28/Tn5cnaXZkQI/AAAAAAAAACs/qk8jRaifTfI/s1600/DSC02973.JPG)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Damas on April 26, 2014, 05:33:22 PM
Go to:

http://z11.invisionfree.com/Work_In_Progress/index.php?

and wallow in the insanity of those with too much plastic and time.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 26, 2014, 06:21:11 PM
Dr F: Those are some seriously good builds and I have to agree that they are much better designs, in my opinion.

Quote from: Damas on April 26, 2014, 05:33:22 PM
Go to:

http://z11.invisionfree.com/Work_In_Progress/index.php?

and wallow in the insanity of those with too much plastic and time.  ;D

Off to have a good wallow..... :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on April 26, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Greydeath et al were good friends of mine when i used to be knee deep in gw.

Some very lovely stuff there, take a close look at the Tau and space marine stuff especially Paul.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 29, 2014, 01:17:12 AM
Someone is pissed off!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/warhammer-Flashing-OOP-1980s-exclusive-only-millions-of-fragments-ever-made-/281315057122?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item417faf1de2
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 29, 2014, 08:28:37 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on April 29, 2014, 01:17:12 AM
Someone is pissed off!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/warhammer-Flashing-OOP-1980s-exclusive-only-millions-of-fragments-ever-made-/281315057122?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item417faf1de2

Tony reidy scraping together some cash for defiance?  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 29, 2014, 01:45:27 PM
More Wood Elf stuff...

Wildwood Rangers = £23.50 for 10 (dual kit with EG below) Pic 1 (http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120204008_WildwoodRangers01.jpg) Pic 2 (http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120204008_WildwoodRangers02.jpg)

Eternal Guard = £23.50 for 10 (dual kit with WWR above)  Pic 1 (http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120204008_EternalGuard01.jpg) Pic 2 (http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120204008_EternalGuard02.jpg)

Wild Riders = £22.50 for 5 (dual kit with SotT below)  Pic 1 (http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120204009_WildRiders01.jpg) Pic 2 (http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120204009_WildRiders02.jpg)

Sisters of the Thorn = £22.50 for 5 (dual kit with WR above)  Pic 1 (http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120204009_SistersoftheThorn01.jpg) Pic 2 (http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120204009_SistersoftheThorn02.jpg)

I quite like these on the whole (Sisters notwithstanding), and I'm looking forward to seeing players do with them.

Also, the mounted kit was sculpted by Aragorn Marks which is interesting (to me) since I wasn't aware he was doing digital sculpting now.

Prices though... Hmm. Seems pretty expensive for a block of infantry, and even if the mounted troops are rarer unit choices fielded in smaller numbers they are pricey too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 29, 2014, 02:18:50 PM
This may be the sign of a bleed on the brain, but I think they are really quite nice - especially those Wild Riders. Why a Ranger requires a blade the size of a window sill is anyone's guess, however, and it's a pity they didn't feel inclined to make them a third of the size to keep things within sensible limits, but there we go. Overall I'm impressed and I think the price is a little high, but not outrageous.

Is someone in GW making good decisions?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 29, 2014, 02:26:15 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 29, 2014, 02:18:50 PM
Is someone in GW making good decisions?

I have a few of the current edition books, and after re-reading the HE and DE books last night I was impressed that they seemed well-balanced on the whole. So (some very silly costs aside)... maybe... yes?  o_o

Weapons-wise, nothing that can't be fixed with a sharp modelling knife and a file! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 29, 2014, 02:38:32 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 29, 2014, 02:18:50 PM
Is someone in GW making good decisions?

Doubt it. The figs are still ridiculously expensive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 29, 2014, 02:53:16 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on April 29, 2014, 02:38:32 PM
Doubt it. The figs are still ridiculously expensive.

£2.35 for a figure that can be assembled as one of two different models? I wouldn't call that "ridiculous". Not the cheapest model out there, sure, but still at least affordable (which is more than I can say for many GW releases!).

Instead, I think expecting people to buy and paint 20-40 of these per regiment is ridiculous. <shrugs>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on April 29, 2014, 03:01:51 PM
If those prices are correct, then it is a very good thing.  The recent dark elf witch elf dual kits are  £35 for 10...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 29, 2014, 03:25:53 PM
Well, assuming I'm not breaking any forum rules by linking to it, you can see the prices in all currencies here (http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l257/CommissarGinn/imagejpg2_zpsa7b0d923.jpg).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on April 29, 2014, 03:58:41 PM
Wow, that is quite reasonable compared to recent releases.  I will likely pick up a box of each just to play around with.  The greatswords were $50CAD when released, and this is forecasted to be a bit cheaper than that, with more components for the infantry.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on April 29, 2014, 04:31:41 PM
looks like 7th Edition 40K is coming sooner than expected  :o

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/04/40k-6th-edition-is-being-pulled.html (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/04/40k-6th-edition-is-being-pulled.html)

Quote:
Multiple Retailers are reporting GW reps are calling to inform them the following products are being pulled:

- Warhammer 40,000 rulebook

- Dark Vengeance starter set

- Warhammer 40,000 Psychic Powers cards

- New Edition Release date of May 24th
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 29, 2014, 05:16:27 PM
I gather it's not such much a new edition, as a re-issue of the current edition... So 6.5 if you will!  ;D

Time will tell I guess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 29, 2014, 07:07:41 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 29, 2014, 02:53:16 PM
I wouldn't call that "ridiculous". Not the cheapest model out there, sure, but still at least affordable (which is more than I can say for many GW releases!).

So its cheap for a GW release. Its still more expensive than almost everything I've bought in the last year. Including boxes of 30-35 hard plastic multi-part figures from other companies, pre-painted terrain, entire companies of 15mm plastics, etc etc.

GW figures should be cheap. They churn them out in huge volumes, they have a huge distribution system in place and the material itself is the cheapest part of the process. They benefit from an economy of scale that none of their competitors have.

If the Perrys and Warlord can put out similarly priced plastic sets then something is seriously wrong with GW and its pricing.

So yes, these are not as egregiously priced as some of their recent plastics, and, as usual, they look pretty nice, but they are ridiculously priced for what you get.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on April 29, 2014, 11:38:22 PM
Not sure about the infantry but I really like those riders steeds. Very Miyazaki in my opinion. That's why I want them  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 30, 2014, 12:40:00 AM
I AM NOT ASHAMED

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5259/13883086768_4bd6f5691a_o.jpg)

In other news, the new sculpting tools are indeed an improvement on the last one, but I still wouldn't buy 'em. The flat surfaces are good 'n' smooth but the edges are as thick and blunt as I thought they looked in the photos.

The files are kinda interesting, though. Both diamond files, the coarser one is as fine as the better diamond-coated stuff I have (admittedly a Lidl knife sharpener) and the finer one is... finer still. I don't know how good they'd be at filing down thick metal mouldlines (I think they'd need that chalking tip Major Gilbear mentioned!) but given GW's push to plastic I guess it doesn't bother them, and you'd probably get a good final polish on metal or plastic minis with them.

Also, picked up the White Dwarf Weekly and I think that treeman's growing on me. :-X Especially after Seb Perbett's designer's notes. I still think it's more 'bark-armoured demon' than 'not-ent', but it's not bad for all that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 30, 2014, 08:48:45 AM
@ Pixelgeek:

You can always find something cheaper - a bag of plastic Army Men style figures are even cheaper still, and are very often quite well sculpted when you consider them carefully.

GW models should be cheaper, but they are not for a lot of reasons; some of which are obvious like money, and some of which are less obvious like their overheads as a company.

I don't think £2.35 a figure is ridiculous if I'm buying <20, as that still falls within a reasonably affordable sum. Not cheap, but affordable. I won't be buying tons of them for huge blocks though - I'd just use a unit filler or three for that.

Please also note that I say this as somebody who's usually the first to complain about GW's pricing!  :-X


@ Vermis:

So have you used the scraper yet? Was it worthwhile? Has it turned you into the next David Soper?  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 30, 2014, 08:55:15 AM
Quote from: Vermis on April 30, 2014, 12:40:00 AM
Both diamond files, the coarser one is as fine as the better diamond-coated stuff I have (admittedly a Lidl knife sharpener) and the finer one is... finer still. I don't know how good they'd be at filing down thick metal mouldlines (I think they'd need that chalking tip Major Gilbear mentioned!) but given GW's push to plastic I guess it doesn't bother them, and you'd probably get a good final polish on metal or plastic minis with them.

Be wary of chalking files that have the abrasives bonded to them as opposed to being cut. It may still work, but their nature is rather different. I'd probably suggest regularly talcing them rather than occasionally chalking them.

Either way, I use cut files for modelling because they have a much longer life than coated files when used as hard as I do!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 30, 2014, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 30, 2014, 08:48:45 AM
GW models should be cheaper, but they are not for a lot of reasons; some of which are obvious like money, and some of which are less obvious like their overheads as a company.

Well they are trying to float the company on a diminishing number of gamers is the main problem. Perhaps this reduction is an indication that they've finally seen that as a bad idea but, the plan they have followed for some years, charging a premium for their figures, is slowly strangling them.

They have some much competition now, across a range of markets, that just making really nice figs isn't enough of a draw.

I could have been clearer but my point is that GW has a lot of competition for the average gamers dollar which provide much cheaper alternatives. If what I want to do is paint some minis and have a tabletop game I can get involved in a lot of games now that provide a complete solution at a fraction of the cost.

I love their minis. I especially love the Wood Elves. But the market for their products is either Warhammer/40K gamers or people who want some sort of figures for their generic fantasy or sci-fi gaming.

The later market is pretty small and often satisfied with a single purchase. How many non-GW fantasy games are there that would require a person to buy more than a single box of the Wood Elf cav?

There are some figs that they make that aren't available elsewhere, like most of the Wood Elf range, but I suspect that for people not playing Warhammer or 40K, their figs are too much of an outlay.

Also, don't forget that due to their differential pricing, you get a much better deal for GW minis in the UK and US than elsewhere. Most GW boxed sets and single figures left the realm of impulse purchases a long time ago in Canada.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 01, 2014, 10:35:22 AM
Pixelgeek, I pretty much agree with your last post.

I also think that some of their more recent extreme styling has turned a lot of people off.

For example, their terrain is very expensive, and *covered* in SKULLZ! That makes removing the skulls as much work or more as simply making your own terrain from scratch. This in turn negates the point of paying the high "convenience" premium of the terrain.

Or some of their "centrepiece" models that nobody normal can reasonably expect to ever take anywhere without serious and justifiable fear of breaking them. Examples of such silliness include the Dark Elf Cauldron of Blood and the Vampire Mortis Whatsit.

I understand that they want to have models that are more unique (and therefore trademarkable), but that's not what many of their customers want. By not recognising that, other companies have been able to fill the gap (often at similar prices even) and take their revenue away. Avatars of War and Raging Heroes are two good examples, and Mantic's early business model was based on GW derivations.

I don't think that £15-25 for a box of 10-15 infantry models is unreasonable if:

1) they are very nice models that assemble well
2) you only need a few such boxes for an army

But when you expect to sell 2-3 boxes per regiment, and for players to have 4-5 such regiments at a minimum just to play a basic version of the game... Well, then you're going to struggle to sell the game as well as before.

What makes is somewhat worse is that older players will often have built up a collection over time of GW models anyway, and can play without purchasing more than the books.

That's one reason the books are so expensive I think, and also why the model count has gone up so drastically (i.e., not just to get players to buy more boxes, but to get existing players to supplement/replace their existing regiments).

The other thing is... None of their games are very well balanced if you set out to build a distorted army. And by distorted army, I mean not building a one-of-each studio-type army. So, really, if you and your group are already in and happy enough with one edition of a game... Why update to the the latest edition (especially if the edition supercedes your army book)? I mean, it's not mandatory.

Personally, I will probably grab a couple of the new WE model kits. But then, I already have lots of WE stuff, and am not likely to buy into a new edition of WHFB (since I have complete 5E, 7E and 8E already). For me then, this will be a completionist activity that will close off the current edition for me nicely, and from which I will not likely graduate to the new edition.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 01, 2014, 11:37:12 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 30, 2014, 08:48:45 AM
@ Vermis:

So have you used the scraper yet? Was it worthwhile? Has it turned you into the next David Soper?  ;D

I was given an SM backpack to try it out on and it wasn't too bad. It's also handy for a bit of a manicure after clipping your fingernails. ;) I have no idea who David Soper is, though.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 30, 2014, 08:55:15 AM
Be wary of chalking files that have the abrasives bonded to them as opposed to being cut. It may still work, but their nature is rather different. I'd probably suggest regularly talcing them rather than occasionally chalking them.

Noted! Ta.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 01, 2014, 11:48:26 AM
Quote from: Vermis on May 01, 2014, 11:37:12 AM
I have no idea who David Soper is, though.

A very talented man (http://sproketsmallworld.blogspot.co.uk/) who paints plastic models rather well.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 01, 2014, 11:58:54 AM
Blimey. :o Bookmarked!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 01, 2014, 03:51:02 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 01, 2014, 10:35:22 AM
For example, their terrain is very expensive, and *covered* in SKULLZ.

Their terrain offerings have been all over the place. Their modular hills are actually quite nice but they don't make them anymore. They appear to have stopped selling a lot of their terrain oddly enough.

Their terrain is the best example of their lack of concern for secondary markets. They could make nice fantasy and sci-fi terrain with a sprue of skullz and Warhammerish bitz and sell a lot of them to other gamers but I suspect that their either don't even care about that market or that market isn't large enough for them to bother.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 01, 2014, 10:35:22 AM
I don't think that £15-25 for a box of 10-15 infantry models is unreasonable if:.

I think that most of their infantry boxes are just ten figures. Cav are usually in fives. Typically one needs two boxes for an average size unit. And if that box makes two distinct troop types (which is actually a pretty damn neat bit of work) then you need four to field the two units.

It can get really expensive really fast.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 01, 2014, 04:11:55 PM
Quote
And if that box makes two distinct troop types (which is actually a pretty damn neat bit of work)

While I agree it is clever design, what it really means is that they're getting you to pay for pieces you can't use and don't need. Not only that, you're left with odds and ends that are difficult to make use of elsewhere.

I'm all for building up the bits box, but I'd much rather have specific boxes that were either cheaper or had a few more figures in them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 01, 2014, 04:19:21 PM
Quote from: zemjw on May 01, 2014, 04:11:55 PM
While I agree it is clever design, what it really means is that they're getting you to pay for pieces you can't use and don't need. Not only that, you're left with odds and ends that are difficult to make use of elsewhere.

I'm all for building up the bits box, but I'd much rather have specific boxes that were either cheaper or had a few more figures in them.

Ain't gonna happen. No-one, not GW, not distributors and not retailers, want to have that many distinct SKUs to sell.

On the plus side, if you aren't buying their figs for Warhammer it often means that you get two types of models with a single purchase
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 01, 2014, 08:30:53 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 01, 2014, 04:19:21 PM
On the plus side, if you aren't buying their figs for Warhammer it often means that you get two types of models with a single purchase

If you're talking about, say, Bretonnia and Empire, you can get nicer, cheaper models elsewhere. So why would you?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on May 01, 2014, 09:14:56 PM
I can't help but notice that the new Treeman is wearing high heels. What a load of crap!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 01, 2014, 10:21:00 PM
Quote from: Gibby on May 01, 2014, 09:14:56 PM
I can't help but notice that the new Treeman is wearing high heels. What a load of crap!

That actually killed the model for me when I saw it. Seems so utterly bizarre.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 01, 2014, 11:41:20 PM
I thought the same, but like I say, it's growing on me. Kind of an elf-wood-demon, purposely evoking Wraithlords and Wraithknights, as per Seb Perbett's notes, rather than the traditional not-ent. (And being a bit of an ent fanboy, that could be considered high praise from me!) I'll tell you what, though: it definitely beats the ambulatory piles of firewood that WE treemen used to be.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 02, 2014, 04:28:06 AM
I really like the classic wood elf treeman though. Although the original Durthu (however you spell it) was a pretty bad model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 02, 2014, 08:15:39 AM
Quote from: Argonor on May 01, 2014, 08:30:53 PM
If you're talking about, say, Bretonnia and Empire, you can get nicer, cheaper models elsewhere. So why would you?

Dingdingding! Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner!

I have high hopes for the (eventual...) Heresy plastics for this very reason - nice cheap GW-scale undead. ;)


Quote from: Gibby on May 01, 2014, 09:14:56 PM
I can't help but notice that the new Treeman is wearing high heels. What a load of crap!

The treemen could be on the balls of their feel, and what you perceive as "heels" are in fact anchoring roots they put down and take up as they move to help stabilise them. ;)


Quote from: Vermis on May 01, 2014, 11:41:20 PM
I'll tell you what, though: it definitely beats the ambulatory piles of firewood that WE treemen used to be.

I quite liked the 6E treemen! I think their lack of anthropomorphism threw a lot of people who expecting the earlier 4E/5E style though. :'(

Really, the 6E treemen needed:

1) Better "faces", as they look a bit characterless without them.
2) Bark patches, as the models just looked like torn raw timber and not very tree-like.
3) More limbs/branches, to again emphasise the tree-ness.
4) At least two upper limbs need to look more weapon-like and dominant, to help emphasise the treeMAN.

Fortunately, these are not difficult changes to make, and the new treeman kit has all the spare plastic parts you need for several 6E treemen 'upgrades' in one box.

Since I'm planning on upgrading two 6E treemen, I'll let you know how that goes! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 04, 2014, 12:02:30 AM
So from what the guys at my fl-non gw-gs have said, the new tools are actually of a REALLY high quality. i've heard the clippers are great and was wondering if anyone had tried them out? i know they cost alot, but i need a new pair and rather than spend £3 on a cheap pair that doos a good, i'd happily spend £20 on a great pair that does a good job and looks as sexy as the gw ones do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on May 04, 2014, 12:14:20 AM
I bought these and they are great

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastic-Coated-Jewelry-Pliers-Cutter/dp/B0052RPBY6/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1399158644&sr=8-13&keywords=Cutters

Can't see GW ones being 4 times better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 04, 2014, 12:45:54 AM
Quote from: nic-e on May 04, 2014, 12:02:30 AM
So from what the guys at my fl-non gw-gs have said, the new tools are actually of a REALLY high quality. i've heard the clippers are great and was wondering if anyone had tried them out? i know they cost alot, but i need a new pair and rather than spend £3 on a cheap pair that doos a good, i'd happily spend £20 on a great pair that does a good job and looks as sexy as the gw ones do.

I did a wee bit of shopping around for alternatives to the GW (and Warlord) tools. You can get a pair of Xuron micro shears on ebay, or Model Craft heavy duty cutters (http://www.modelsforsale.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=668219-Model-Craft-Heavy-Duty-Sprue-&-Plastic-Cutter-Scale---PPL6704) for £6-8. Whether or not they're sexy enough is up to you!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 04, 2014, 02:51:06 AM
Quote from: nic-e on May 04, 2014, 12:02:30 AM
So from what the guys at my fl-non gw-gs have said, the new tools are actually of a REALLY high quality.

Compared to?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 04, 2014, 08:24:30 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 04, 2014, 12:02:30 AM
So from what the guys at my fl-non gw-gs have said, the new tools are actually of a REALLY high quality. i've heard the clippers are great and was wondering if anyone had tried them out? i know they cost alot, but i need a new pair and rather than spend £3 on a cheap pair that doos a good, i'd happily spend £20 on a great pair that does a good job and looks as sexy as the gw ones do.

If you want to spend that kind of money, check out something like Lindstrom flush micro bevel cutters (https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/94660844/lindstrom-micro-bevel-sidecutter?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product_listing_promoted_en_gb&utm_campaign=supplies_mid). Working them compared to anything I've owned previously is... Well, let's just say there's no real comparison, and that my hands thank me for the upgrade! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 05, 2014, 08:52:55 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 04, 2014, 08:24:30 PM
If you want to spend that kind of money, check out something like Lindstrom flush micro bevel cutters (https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/94660844/lindstrom-micro-bevel-sidecutter?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product_listing_promoted_en_gb&utm_campaign=supplies_mid). Working them compared to anything I've owned previously is... Well, let's just say there's no real comparison, and that my hands thank me for the upgrade! ;)

If it's for sale on etsy, you know it's either quality, or something with gears stuck on it :)those do like nice.I'm currently using a pair of professional jewellery ones from college (they are REALLY nice) but i wont be taking them to uni with me considering how much it bugs me when my tools go missing.

The comparison was being drawn between your standard b&q range of clippers & the army painter clippers.the gw ones seemed much nicer to use, didn't hurt the hand when pushing hard.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 06, 2014, 12:18:20 AM
Quote from: nic-e on May 05, 2014, 08:52:55 PM
If it's for sale on etsy, you know it's either quality, or something with gears stuck on it :)

Seems like they are just reselling existing products. Seems odd for etsy
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 06, 2014, 08:43:50 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 06, 2014, 12:18:20 AM
Seems like they are just reselling existing products. Seems odd for etsy

Really? whenever i've been on etsy it always seems to have a large amount of sellers treating it as a high end ebay, or trying to pass off cheap brass beads as hand made trinkets.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 06, 2014, 08:55:04 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 06, 2014, 08:43:50 PM
or trying to pass off cheap brass beads as hand made trinkets.

To be honest that's the most I've heard about it, on sites poking fun at hipsters...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 07, 2014, 02:35:21 PM
Quote from: Vermis on May 06, 2014, 08:55:04 PM
To be honest that's the most I've heard about it, on sites poking fun at hipsters...

Quite a lot of that but also quite a lot of people who do make very good products. Including one fellow who made a very fun fantasy card game. People just like poking fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 07, 2014, 06:20:49 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 04, 2014, 08:24:30 PM
If you want to spend that kind of money, check out something like Lindstrom flush micro bevel cutters (https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/94660844/lindstrom-micro-bevel-sidecutter?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product_listing_promoted_en_gb&utm_campaign=supplies_mid). Working them compared to anything I've owned previously is... Well, let's just say there's no real comparison, and that my hands thank me for the upgrade! ;)

$70 nippers... holy shit.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on May 08, 2014, 10:09:47 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 04, 2014, 08:24:30 PM
If you want to spend that kind of money, check out something like Lindstrom flush micro bevel cutters (https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/94660844/lindstrom-micro-bevel-sidecutter?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product_listing_promoted_en_gb&utm_campaign=supplies_mid). Working them compared to anything I've owned previously is... Well, let's just say there's no real comparison, and that my hands thank me for the upgrade! ;)

Yes, precision cutters and pliers are fucking expensive for a reason. I can't really make myself spend that kind of money, though, even though something tells me I should if I am to take my hobby seriously (which is a sort of a contradiction in terms).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 08, 2014, 01:09:02 PM
I work with a lot of metal models, as well as a lot of sprued plastic ones...

Even with decent DIY-store clippers though, I'd often end up with cramped hands after an hour or so, and have frequently struggled if I had to prepare a lot of figures for a project.

I felt that there must be something better out there, and if it's a tool that will last me my whole life as well as spare me physical injury, then the cost was worthwhile.

My experience has so far proven that good tools make for a safer and better job (and are in fact still good value when you consider the costs of time saved, personal injury, or damaging your work).

Buying really crap tools -at any price- is just asking for trouble though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 08, 2014, 06:19:14 PM
Oh, I'd agree that better tools will be more effective, but I've had quite decent service from a reasonable pair of Excel pliers (a common US hobby brand available in many places here).

Now, I grant that I play skirmish games, so I never prepares dozens of figures at ago and usually I'm just snipping integral bases, so I'm not doing anything superfine that I can't just file to get where I want. If I were working on larger volumes that might make a difference. But then, higher volumes would also justify higher cost tools as all the costs scale up!

For instance, I did just pay $40 for a pile of Dremel cutting bits. Never mind the hand tools, give me mechanization! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 09, 2014, 09:55:59 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 08, 2014, 06:19:14 PM
[...] Never mind the hand tools, give me vibration white finger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibration_white_finger)! lol

Fixed that for you!  ;D

Joking aside, I have a Dremel too - it's invaluable when converting metal figures, and for working on more elaborate scenic projects.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 13, 2014, 10:39:13 PM
In the grimdark future there is only CHESS.

(http://i.imgur.com/4Sar69i.jpg)

You can't make this up! http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/13/5712746/warhammer-40k-chess-regicide-2014-tablets-mobile-pc
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 14, 2014, 12:06:18 AM
So they're now trying to take over the 'hobby' of chess  :-X

Never mind  ::)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on May 14, 2014, 12:18:34 AM
I feel a little dirty considering how many 40k figures I have piled up. That intro statement is so juvenile...

I like the marine cgi though :|
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 14, 2014, 06:10:08 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on May 14, 2014, 12:06:18 AM
So they're now trying to take over the 'hobby' of chess  :-X

Never mind  ::)

cheers

James
Probably trademarked the word "chess" too
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on May 14, 2014, 06:44:52 AM
Who....Why....WHAT?!
What an inane concept for a digital game...

Ooooh, wait, I see where they are going with this. From White Dwarf Daily, february 2015:
"Warhammer 40K Chess-Regicide, you played it on the PC, now join in the action with your friends! WH40K:C-R can be played with our fine range of Citadel miniatures. To optimally enjoy the game, you need one miniature on the first square of the Realm of Battle Chessboard, two on the second, three on the third. Our specialised range of WH40K:C-R are available now, for only €5 each!
Join the action now!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 14, 2014, 08:00:19 AM
"Cathrin Machin, project lead at Hammerfall Publishing, told Polygon that two of the defining principles of Warhammer 40K: Chess - Regicide are compelling and tactical gameplay mechanics combined with a strong emphasis on visual fidelity. Based on this, the game mixes in stunt choreographed and motion captured animation to create "merciless kill and death animations" using military trained fight and stunt choreographers."

I remember this game. It was called 'Battle Chess' back in the late 80's. Didn't feature power armour, though.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 14, 2014, 08:26:11 AM
Ah battle chess. First game I ever played when dad brought home the 286. Loved the rook eating things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 14, 2014, 09:15:27 AM
"Let the Wookie win."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 14, 2014, 11:35:08 AM
Quote from: Cubs on May 14, 2014, 09:15:27 AM
"Let the Wookie win."

Why? You don't need arms in the SW universe, they'll just replace them with bionics  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 14, 2014, 02:26:09 PM
Also what is up witg that double title? do they expect 40k chess to be a franchise that this needs the regicide title. Also it might be my being a non native speaker but it doesnt particularly roll off now does it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 14, 2014, 03:41:58 PM
Quote from: YPU on May 14, 2014, 02:26:09 PM
Also what is up witg that double title? do they expect 40k chess to be a franchise that this needs the regicide title. Also it might be my being a non native speaker but it doesnt particularly roll off now does it?

I guess it's a 'pun' on the King being the one playing piece you need to 'kill' in order to win the game. My tongue doesn't like it, either  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 14, 2014, 03:55:06 PM
For those not in the know, regicide is a game in the 40K background - I assume the 41st millenium permutation of chess. ;)

In other news, anyone notice that 40K 7th ed is due for release, just two years after 6th? From what little I've heard, it's to clear up the clutter from all the added Apocalypse, dataslate and detachment supplements, etc. Though there are a couple of other theories about it, particularly the one about a desperate increase in the rate of releases just before a crash.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 14, 2014, 04:57:07 PM
Quote from: Vermis on May 14, 2014, 03:55:06 PM
For those not in the know, regicide is a game in the 40K background - I assume the 41st millenium permutation of chess. ;)

In other news, anyone notice that 40K 7th ed is due for release, just two years after 6th? From what little I've heard, it's to clear up the clutter from all the added Apocalypse, dataslate and detachment supplements, etc. Though there are a couple of other theories about it, particularly the one about a desperate increase in the rate of releases just before a crash.

From what i can see it's basically a return to third edition with all  the added guff included in the rulebook as ..well, added guff really.
rulebook will be 3 separate books, rules, hobby and fluff.
2 types of army list , unbound (anything you have, throw it down.) or battle worn (new FoC, less freedom as unbound but with added bonuses.)
looks to have alot in common with fantasy in terms of distinct psychic/magic stage ect.

I think the reason is that the designers realized they were building on top of 3rd/4th edition 40k, but hadn't fleshed out these foundations in years and now the game had become a monstrous cludge of special rules and expansions and the whole think was in danger of collapsing.

other unconfirmed rumors talk about mechanics similar to dust and warmahordes (not that i'd recognize them :p) so who knows, we might be seeing a slimmed down core game with extra stuff already in the rules.

Also, no codex rewrites for anything published since 6th, so perhaps the newer codexes that have had people confused (militarium tempestus) will make sense if the new 40k turns out the be scaled down and simpler.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 14, 2014, 05:18:09 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 14, 2014, 04:57:07 PM
and now the game had become a monstrous cludge of special rules and expansions and the whole think was in danger of collapsing.

Isn't that just what happened to each and every edition after RT?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on May 15, 2014, 07:40:30 AM
Quote from: Argonor on May 14, 2014, 05:18:09 PM
Isn't that just what happened to each and every edition after RT?

Pretty much, but what makes this edition so unique is that they manged to turn it into an unmanageable steaming pile in only two years... It usually took them twice as long, it seems they're getting more efficient at it. o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 15, 2014, 08:26:22 AM
So this new edition is an enema then?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 15, 2014, 08:36:19 AM
I just want them to bring back genestealer cults  lol I'd probably buy some GW stuff then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on May 15, 2014, 08:37:49 AM
You mean put some imagination back into the fluff rather than constantly write new adventures about different coloured Space Marines?  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on May 15, 2014, 12:15:18 PM
Quote from: Modhail on May 15, 2014, 07:40:30 AM
Pretty much, but what makes this edition so unique is that they manged to turn it into an unmanageable steaming pile in only two years... It usually took them twice as long, it seems they're getting more efficient at it. o_o

Haha, very true. Lets see if they can ruin this edition in one year  lol

Quote from: beefcake on May 15, 2014, 08:36:19 AM
I just want them to bring back genestealer cults  lol I'd probably buy some GW stuff then.

Im 'too young to remember these' but of what I have read and seen they were very fluff heavy. Which is great in my opinion.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 15, 2014, 01:17:22 PM
Quote from: Cubs on May 15, 2014, 08:26:22 AM
So this new edition is an enema then?

More precisely the leftovers after one...   ::)

Quote from: beefcake on May 15, 2014, 08:36:19 AM
I just want them to bring back genestealer cults  lol I'd probably buy some GW stuff then.

Quote from: matthais-mouse on May 15, 2014, 12:15:18 PM
Im 'too young to remember these' but of what I have read and seen they were very fluff heavy. Which is great in my opinion.  :)

Genestealers were my first experience with the 40K universe, Space Hulk being the first 28mm GW boxed game (with minis) I bought.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on May 15, 2014, 01:54:07 PM
I would have loved to play the space hulk games, both new and old versions, but they go for a pretty penny now of what I have seen  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 15, 2014, 02:47:01 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on May 15, 2014, 01:54:07 PM
I would have loved to play the space hulk games, both new and old versions, but they go for a pretty penny now of what I have seen  :(
Incursion from Grindhouse Games is mechanically very similar; instead of Space Marine Terminators hunting down Genestealers on an abandoned spaceship however, the theme is a crack team of Allies in mechanically-powered armour hunting down a mad Nazi scientist and his creations in a secret base deep underground/water.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on May 15, 2014, 07:10:31 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 15, 2014, 02:47:01 PM
Incursion from Grindhouse Games is mechanically very similar; instead of Space Marine Terminators hunting down Genestealers on an abandoned spaceship however, the theme is a crack team of Allies in mechanically-powered armour hunting down a mad Nazi scientist and his creations in a secret base deep underground/water.

I've got both and if push came to shove I'd probably favour Incursion. Just seems to run a little smoother. Also like the fact that you build your force personally rather than, like Space Hulk, having set squads for each scenario.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on May 15, 2014, 07:28:08 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 15, 2014, 02:47:01 PM
Incursion from Grindhouse Games is mechanically very similar; instead of Space Marine Terminators hunting down Genestealers on an abandoned spaceship however, the theme is a crack team of Allies in mechanically-powered armour hunting down a mad Nazi scientist and his creations in a secret base deep underground/water.
Quote from: Diakon on May 15, 2014, 07:10:31 PM
I've got both and if push came to shove I'd probably favour Incursion. Just seems to run a little smoother. Also like the fact that you build your force personally rather than, like Space Hulk, having set squads for each scenario.

Thanks for the info for the other game guys, I shall have a further look into it and see about purchasing a copy of it for me and a few friends to play  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 15, 2014, 08:15:53 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on May 15, 2014, 12:15:18 PM
Haha, very true. Lets see if they can ruin this edition in one year  lol

Im 'too young to remember these' but of what I have read and seen they were very fluff heavy. Which is great in my opinion.  :)

I'm 19, too young is no excuse. you should spend every second of your free time scraping the internt to gather obscure 40k knowledge. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on May 15, 2014, 08:23:30 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 15, 2014, 08:15:53 PM
I'm 19, too young is no excuse. you should spend every second of your free time scraping the internt to gather obscure 40k knowledge. :)

My quest for knowledge on the xenos threats of humanity have been gathered on the T'au, a much closer threat to my homeworld  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on May 15, 2014, 08:25:03 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on May 15, 2014, 07:28:08 PM
Thanks for the info for the other game guys, I shall have a further look into it and see about purchasing a copy of it for me and a few friends to play  :)

Worth pointing out though that there are no mini's in the Incursion box. Just card stand ins. Doesn't bother me too much but you should know. Also the line of miniatures is really nice if you go that road.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on May 15, 2014, 08:49:30 PM
Quote from: Diakon on May 15, 2014, 08:25:03 PM
Worth pointing out though that there are no mini's in the Incursion box. Just card stand ins. Doesn't bother me too much but you should know. Also the line of miniatures is really nice if you go that road.

More minis for the expanding collection  lol I would buy the minis eventually but the card stand ins would be fine for learning the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 16, 2014, 05:30:16 AM
I had the 2nd ed(?) tyranids army book. I poured over the genestealer cult list that was in that a lot. Ended up collecting the Tyranids though. Still have an old school tyranid army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 17, 2014, 11:21:16 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on May 15, 2014, 07:28:08 PM
Thanks for the info for the other game guys, I shall have a further look into it and see about purchasing a copy of it for me and a few friends to play  :)

There's also Level 7: Omega Protocol from Privateer Press.  It's a complete boardgame with all the minis in soft plastic.  Game tiles are lovely, and each of the "marine" characters have a range of special abilities and equipment options, so there's a little more depth.

The core mechanic involves "Adrenaline" action points - any point spent by the marines is passed to the monster player, who can trigger special ations or reinforcements with them.  So it's a balance between moving in quietly and going in all guns blazing.  It's very, very good...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on May 18, 2014, 12:05:52 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on May 17, 2014, 11:21:16 PM
There's also Level 7: Omega Protocol from Privateer Press.  It's a complete boardgame with all the minis in soft plastic.  Game tiles are lovely, and each of the "marine" characters have a range of special abilities and equipment options, so there's a little more depth.

The core mechanic involves "Adrenaline" action points - any point spent by the marines is passed to the monster player, who can trigger special ations or reinforcements with them.  So it's a balance between moving in quietly and going in all guns blazing.  It's very, very good...

Now this one caught my cousins attention so I believe he shall be purchasing a copy. Which means I get to play it too haha. Thanks for all the info again everyone  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 18, 2014, 06:28:07 PM
rulebook is up for preorder.
£50 for 3 books in a nice sleeve.one is art and hobby stuff, one is fluff, the other is rules.
designs are nice, light and modern, a pleasant departure from the skulls and hammers of the last couple of editions.

does anyone else think that £50, whilst expensive, is actually not too bad for a nice set of books ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 18, 2014, 07:02:24 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 18, 2014, 06:28:07 PM
does anyone else think that £50, whilst expensive, is actually not too bad for a nice set of books ?
Its not cheap, but honestly I buy a lot of books in that price/page range, both hobby related and otherwise.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 18, 2014, 07:08:52 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 18, 2014, 06:28:07 PM
does anyone else think that £50, whilst expensive, is actually not too bad for a nice set of books ?

Not really, I'll quite happily spend a fortune on a book if I think it's worth it (I got the Star Wars Chronicles for £100, bargin  :D )

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 18, 2014, 08:12:25 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 18, 2014, 06:28:07 PM
does anyone else think that £50, whilst expensive, is actually not too bad for a nice set of books ?

Well, there's that old chestnut about a book and it's cover...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 18, 2014, 09:57:41 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 18, 2014, 06:28:07 PM
does anyone else think that £50, whilst expensive, is actually not too bad for a nice set of books ?

Its $100 in Canada and it seems like a rather crass cash grab. Two of the three books are fluff and its one thing to charge people for art and/or fluff on its own but to make them a required part of the rules is pretty sh*tty.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on May 18, 2014, 10:01:09 PM
Unless there is a way to buy the rules separately its still £50 for the rule book. Splitting what would have been in one book into three but making you buy them all at once and then saying "But now you get three books for the price of one" is not providing value.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 18, 2014, 10:04:12 PM
Quote from: carlos13th on May 18, 2014, 10:01:09 PM
Unless there is a way to buy the rules separately its still £50 for the rule book. Splitting what would have been in one book into three but making you buy them all at once and then saying "But now you get three books for the price of one" is not providing value.

I'm not saying it's value because it's 3 books, im saying it seems cheap given games workshops history of charging a left nut for rulebooks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 18, 2014, 10:10:59 PM
I dunno. If I was dead set on the game and wanted to treat myself, I'd save up for the £50 and think of it as a naughty indulgence. It's not extortionate if you look at it like that I guess, but it would put me off giving it a try if I wasn't a 100% fan.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on May 18, 2014, 10:50:18 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 18, 2014, 10:04:12 PM
I'm not saying it's value because it's 3 books, im saying it seems cheap given games workshops history of charging a left nut for rulebooks.

But isn't it still more expensive than the 6th edition rule book was? by about a tenner if I am not mistaken.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 19, 2014, 02:10:43 AM
Yeah but that was 2 years ago. We're talking GW inflation here  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 19, 2014, 08:54:33 AM
Quote from: carlos13th on May 18, 2014, 10:01:09 PM
Unless there is a way to buy the rules separately its still £50 for the rule book. Splitting what would have been in one book into three but making you buy them all at once and then saying "But now you get three books for the price of one" is not providing value.

This.

The only advantage I can see to the three volumes over one is that you don't need to bring the other two with you when you go anywhere for a game.

Quote from: beefcake on May 19, 2014, 02:10:43 AM
Yeah but that was 2 years ago. We're talking GW inflation here  lol

I thought that 6E was £50 as well?

The only thing I noticed as "better value" was that the digital editions are finally (slightly) cheaper than the dead-tree versions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on May 19, 2014, 09:17:04 AM
Quote from: Cubs on May 18, 2014, 10:10:59 PM
..., I'd save up for the £50 and think of it as a naughty indulgence.
Well, if I had £50 surplus to requirements, I could think of a whole host of naughty indulgences to spend it on, before I'd consider a GW book...*  :D
And that despite having been a long time fan and a compulsive completist who owns at least the starter set/core rules of all previous editions.


*:Don't worry, almost all would involve either little toy men or support/reference material for little toy men anyway...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 19, 2014, 09:48:42 AM
Quote from: Modhail on May 19, 2014, 09:17:04 AM
Well, if I had £50 surplus to requirements, I could think of a whole host of naughty indulgences to spend it on, before I'd consider a GW book...*  :D
And that despite having been a long time fan and a compulsive completist who owns at least the starter set/core rules of all previous editions.


*:Don't worry, almost all would involve either little toy men or support/reference material for little toy men anyway...

I have most rulebooks up to.... 4th or 5th Ed. (not sure), after which I simply gave up, realizing that they'll never modernize the mechanics in any noteworthy fashion. Money dearly wasted. I've played the game 3 or 4 time tops in all those years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 19, 2014, 10:15:19 AM
Quote from: Argonor on May 19, 2014, 09:48:42 AM
[...] I simply gave up, realizing that they'll never modernize the mechanics in any noteworthy fashion.

I don't think that's the writers' fault though; I remember both Tuomas Pirinen and Alessio Cavatore wanting to change core WHFB rules quite fundamentally and were basically told "no" by GW.

Quote from: Argonor on May 19, 2014, 09:48:42 AM
Money dearly wasted. I've played the game 3 or 4 time tops in all those years.

Well, not totally wasted; as long as the people you play with are happy to play whatever edition you have the books for, the rules are still "valid". In fact, I'd say that pretty much all editions (bar 4th Edition, which was a particularly broken mess) are equally okay in this respect.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 19, 2014, 10:27:38 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 19, 2014, 10:15:19 AM
I don't think that's the writers' fault though; I remember both Tuomas Pirinen and Alessio Cavatore wanting to change core WHFB rules quite fundamentally and were basically told "no" by GW.

The end result is the same, or have I missed something?

Quote
Well, not totally wasted; as long as the people you play with are happy to play whatever edition you have the books for, the rules are still "valid". In fact, I'd say that pretty much all editions (bar 4th Edition, which was a particularly broken mess) are equally okay in this respect.

Buying expensive rulebooks for a system you don't IS a waste of money. I don't play the game, and have only played less than a handful of games over the years. Even my regular gaming buddy who's been stubbornly holding on to a couple of armies, gave up playing the current (2-years old) edition (is it 5th? In that case I have up to 4th).

Stupid of me to keep hoping they'd up their game, but, well, especially before the interweb, not much else that GW stuff was easily available, and with AC writing... 3rd?... edition, I had my hopes up for a simpler, more fluent game (which, in fact, I think it was, until they started messing things up with all the special rules in the expansions).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 19, 2014, 10:53:36 AM
Quote from: Argonor on May 19, 2014, 10:27:38 AM
The end result is the same, or have I missed something?

You haven't missed anything. However, I mention it as buying and then complaining that editions don't change much is a given - and not just because the people who write the rules disagree with you.

Quote from: Argonor on May 19, 2014, 10:27:38 AM
Buying expensive rulebooks for a system you don't IS a waste of money. I don't play the game, and have only played less than a handful of games over the years. Even my regular gaming buddy who's been stubbornly holding on to a couple of armies, gave up playing the current (2-years old) edition (is it 5th? In that case I have up to 4th).

Stupid of me to keep hoping they'd up their game, but, well, especially before the interweb, not much else that GW stuff was easily available, and with AC writing... 3rd?... edition, I had my hopes up for a simpler, more fluent game (which, in fact, I think it was, until they started messing things up with all the special rules in the expansions).

The current (just pre-released this weekend) version is 7th. So you would have up to 5th edition I think.

If you liked 3rd edition, then stick to that. I liked the "3.5" edition, which was basically 3E with fixed CC rules. Games were fast and the rules were pretty streamlined.

Buying more editions in the hope for radical change though is not wise, as you already note. And after the negative feedback (to put it politely) that GW received when it significantly streamlined and rebalanced WHFB (6E), 40k (3E) and Epic (E:40k), I don't blame them for wanting to preserve the stupid level of pointless rules detail that their main player base seems to demand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on May 19, 2014, 10:59:47 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 19, 2014, 10:53:36 AM

If you liked 3rd edition, then stick to that. I liked the "3.5" edition, which was basically 3E with fixed CC rules.


What he said!
You dont always have to play the lastest rule set.
And as the are now so many GW rulesets, especially with all the newer supplements, just agree on a set, and use those....

I would argue any set between 3rd - 5th should still work very well for most freindly games.... Or even go back as far as RT if you want the original insane antics of a true period ruleset!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 20, 2014, 08:42:37 PM
So I was curious about playing with the GW technical paints, you know, the ones introduced only about 6 months ago. I know you can get the same effect using homebrewed material, but I felt like giving them a try.

The closest game store to me was out, so I was calling around looking to see who had them all in. Well, one store I rang up said they were limited edition and were now discontinued. I did eventually find a shop that had some, but that still threw me way off.

WTF?!? Who makes limited edition paint!?!?! That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. Even by GW standards!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 20, 2014, 08:49:11 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 20, 2014, 08:42:37 PM

WTF?!? Who makes limited edition paint!?!?! That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. Even by GW standards!

Everything these days has to be 'limited ed.', 'kickstarter exclusive', and what have we... All designed to force us to make rash buying decisions.

But yes, the stupidity doesn't seem to come to an end. I own only a few of the new(est) GW paints, and I'm replacing my old ones with Foundry and Vallejo, not even bothering to go to the local hobby stores to buy paint anymore, as it is cheaper for me to buy online (from Miniaturicum), including postage, per bottle/pot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 20, 2014, 09:06:33 PM
Sure. I'm not necessarily going to run out and buy these. I know some of them are garbage (the rust in particular is just a thick orange drybrush paint and doesn't mimic rust well at all) and you can do better elsewhere (everyone seems to agree that Tamiya clear red beats Blood for the Blood God), but some like the crackling earth and copper corrosion seemed worthwhile for a test.

But why buy them if I can't get more? If I get attached to them, I'll be out of luck later. Better to just learn the hand techniques.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 20, 2014, 11:41:00 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 20, 2014, 08:42:37 PM
WTF?!? Who makes limited edition paint!?!?! That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. Even by GW standards!

I have heard nothing similar about these paints.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on May 20, 2014, 11:50:09 PM
I am fortunate for paint now that my local model shop sells Vallejo. They also seem to be developing a "technical" range but i havent tried anything much so i cant say how it compares.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 21, 2014, 12:02:49 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 20, 2014, 08:42:37 PM
WTF?!? Who makes limited edition paint!?!?! That's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard of. Even by GW standards!

I read Warseer: I'm almost desensitized to GW's ridiculous things. Almost.

Quote from: FramFramson on May 20, 2014, 09:06:33 PM
but some like the crackling earth and copper corrosion seemed worthwhile for a test.

Crackling earth? Haven't looked twice at the technical range, but I take it that ends up like dried, cracked mud? You can get acrylic crackle medium or crackle glaze for that. And I assume copper corrosion caters to the penchant for slapping bright teal verdigris on any vaguely metallic surface these days...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 21, 2014, 02:15:32 AM
Absolutely right on the crackle medium. I decided that I want to try the verdigris and the Typhus Corrosion. The other four can be quite easily duplicated using regular materials/mediums or are available in a superior form from a different colour
- The rust is just a drybrush orange and doesn't even flow into cracks.
- Tamiya clear red is vastly better than the GW blood, by almost all the accounts of anyone who's used both.
- The Nurgle pus can be done with some ugly looking green and a little bit of heavy gloss/gel medium
- The earth crackle can be obtained using any decent artist's crackle medium (I realized I would only ever use this on terrain, not bases or minis, so I'd need larger quantities anyway and quality isn't as important)

I've done verdigris myself - and quite a decent job too, I think! - but I liked the nice variation in tones the GW one seems to be giving.  

The Typhus is the one which is a sort of a near-rust dirt and corrosion, with patches of pitting on the metal. THIS is the one that I really want to try, because this looks like the only one that genuinely gives an effect which would be very difficult and time-consuming for me to do on my own:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-I_iQ0HEWNlI/UokBgbPVKRI/AAAAAAAAAiU/99tsNVj6f2M/s1600/CSM+-+Typhus+Corrosion.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 21, 2014, 02:18:40 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 20, 2014, 11:41:00 PM
I have heard nothing similar about these paints.

I can't find anything on the website (and I think you can still order it direct from GW), but two of the stores I called said it was a limited edition thing and that they can't order it through their regular dealer channels.

If that's wrong well, GW should probably be making that clearer, because it seems a number of stores think it's true.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 21, 2014, 01:42:25 PM
Some GW products are limited in that you have to buy them directly from GW in one way or another. For example, when a new wave of releases is launched, all shops can but "x" number of each for the launch; thereafter, independent shops can only order specifics from that wave to stock regularly.

There was another douche-bag reason as well, to do with how GW handles independent retailer accounts; basically some products are considered "special stock" or such, and shops are very severely limited in how much/often they can stock them, and have limits set that are partially linked to how much "regular stock" they buy as well. I heard that many bigger independent retailers set up several companies all under the same ownership in order to try and get around this issue - essentially, each company has an account and is treated separately, and this lets bigger retailers obtain enough Failcast products and other such "special stock" to reasonably supply their customers with.

Its one way in which GW use independent stores to broaden their market, but at the same time force many players to subsequently come directly to GW as only they stock the complete range (in theory at least).

All that aside, I have heard nothing about the "new" technical paints being limited, so any GW-owned store should have them in stock.

Typhus Corrosion... I think you can get artists' acrylic mediums to mimic that effect too (but in any colour you want).

I have been totally unimpressed with GW's most recent paint range, and it seems to have be squarely aimed at people who just use GW paint and that's it. If people like, then great. Me, I'll keep avoiding it and saving money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 21, 2014, 02:52:23 PM
The Verdigris is pretty decent, its like a thick wash, and dries very dusty. im sure there are better products out there but this one was easy to obtain anf does the job.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 21, 2014, 07:48:56 PM
the crackle base is great as long as you shake it and dry it with a hairdryer.It's tempting to use crackle glaze but honestly alot of it is crap, and even the good stuff it temperamental.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 13, 2014, 08:33:40 PM
I believe they actually sell the cultists separately in one of those snap fit mini box kinda things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on June 13, 2014, 10:47:14 PM
Yeah that's right. It's £6 or £7 ish.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 16, 2014, 05:01:35 PM
Quote from: Scurv on June 13, 2014, 08:17:28 PM
quick question.

are those starter box figs of the chaos cultists and warriors exclusive to that set?

Everything in the starter box is exclusive to the starter box *except* that a few of the basic cultists are also available as a little 6-model top-up set separately.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 18, 2014, 08:39:25 AM
Generally speaking the all the recent starter sets are testing in one way or another. Once the new edition hits there is bound to be a new starter set and the current one might drop in price I guess? happened last times.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on June 18, 2014, 11:53:47 AM
anyone have a link, I cant seem to find them... :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 18, 2014, 12:03:35 PM
Link (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marines-Cultists#) as requested! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 18, 2014, 12:30:14 PM
Quote from: YPU on June 18, 2014, 08:39:25 AM
Generally speaking the all the recent starter sets are testing in one way or another. Once the new edition hits there is bound to be a new starter set and the current one might drop in price I guess? happened last times.

The new edition has hit and last time I was in a GW shop (last week) the 6th ed Dark Vengeance boxes are still there at full price.

Not to mention that I've never known a significant GW product to drop in price. Unless you mean second hand or indy shops trying to dump old stock. The only unusual thing about it is that I gathered starter sets for previous editions just... went away. Being packed, as they have been as long as I've known, with rulebooks for their particular editions.

But then what I hear about 7th ed is that it's a few minor tweaks of 6th, a psychic phase based on unpopular magic mechanics from an old WHFB edition, and the infamous 'unbound' armies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on June 18, 2014, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 18, 2014, 12:03:35 PM
Link (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marines-Cultists#) as requested! ;)

Cheers! Ok, that's what I found as well.  I have not looked in a while, but I think I have this set from a few years ago.  It was a good deal if I recall.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on June 18, 2014, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 18, 2014, 12:03:35 PM
Link (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marines-Cultists#) as requested! ;)

Forgive the rather silly question, but is that £6 for five figures or one  ???

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on June 18, 2014, 01:11:32 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on June 18, 2014, 01:00:02 PM
Forgive the rather silly question, but is that £6 for five figures or one  ???

cheers

James


Hmm, I'm guessing it's just the box. No contents.

Maybe an info flyer about the nearest outlet too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on June 18, 2014, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: Dr. The Viking on June 18, 2014, 01:11:32 PM

Hmm, I'm guessing it's just the box. No contents.

Maybe an info flyer about the nearest outlet too.

 lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on June 18, 2014, 04:24:32 PM
It is a box of five models. One of the few things from GW which decently priced.

Though Dr Viking will probably be correct within 6 months by the next price rise.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 18, 2014, 05:33:26 PM
Quote from: Vermis on June 18, 2014, 12:30:14 PM

Not to mention that I've never known a significant GW product to drop in price. Unless you mean second hand or indy shops trying to dump old stock. The only unusual thing about it is that I gathered starter sets for previous editions just... went away. Being packed, as they have been as long as I've known, with rulebooks for their particular editions.

Indy shop naturally, pretty cheap and GW don't go together well do they now.

Quote from: Dr. The Viking on June 18, 2014, 01:11:32 PM
Hmm, I'm guessing it's just the box. No contents.
lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 18, 2014, 10:51:42 PM
The few times I played 40K, we played it 'unbound'. Actually it's how RT was meant to be played. So now they're charging us to tell us we can do whatever we want with the models we purchased (I HAVE met some die-hards that couldn't get their minds around that fact, obvious as it should be to anyone with an IQ above 75)?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 18, 2014, 11:35:29 PM
Quote from: Argonor on June 18, 2014, 10:51:42 PM
The few times I played 40K, we played it 'unbound'. Actually it's how RT was meant to be played. So now they're charging us to tell us we can do whatever we want with the models we purchased (I HAVE met some die-hards that couldn't get their minds around that fact, obvious as it should be to anyone with an IQ above 75)?

Wait, you mean people actually play it with the massive organized armies? i don't think i've ever owned a full legal army  lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on June 19, 2014, 04:07:36 AM
It was always too bloody hard to work out a legal force that wouldn't get wiped off the table in the first couple of turns  ::) lol

I do detest those types that can memorise the rules back to front (including all army lists) and then know the exact way they are going to beat you and in what turn :-[

What's the point; it's not a game, then it's just a predetermined movement of toys on a board with a predetermined outcome (not to me however who plays for the sake of the game. Play up! Play up!).

Anyway, no point in ranting about it now, I'm going to be selling the last of my newer 40k stuff very soon anyway.

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 19, 2014, 04:28:19 AM
Quote from: carlos13th on June 18, 2014, 04:24:32 PM
It is a box of five models. One of the few things from GW which decently priced.

Though Dr Viking will probably be correct within 6 months by the next price rise.

Nono, it turns out it's the flyer that costs £6.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on June 19, 2014, 04:39:37 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on June 19, 2014, 04:28:19 AM
Nono, it turns out it's the flyer that costs £6.  lol

I remember being utterly confused on a 40k thread once when people were getting really excited about the new £25 space marine flyers. Didn't realise until much later they meant to the aircraft type models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on June 24, 2014, 08:29:10 AM
I shall not lie that my introduction to wargaming was through games workshop,  but my modelling started a lot longer ago with model railways as a cousin of mine is obsessed with trains that over the years was spread to me.

As Nic-e said on another thread here, some of GW larger kits could well be used as terrain and monsters all in one if broken down, I really like the title of the thread and could see the keanu reeves meme saying it hahaha  lol whoch I do believe was the intention of the title.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 24, 2014, 11:37:17 AM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on June 24, 2014, 08:29:10 AM
I shall not lie that my introduction to wargaming was through games workshop,  but my modelling started a lot longer ago with model railways as a cousin of mine is obsessed with trains that over the years was spread to me.

As Nic-e said on another thread here, some of GW larger kits could well be used as terrain and monsters all in one if broken down, I really like the title of the thread and could see the keanu reeves meme saying it hahaha  lol whoch I do believe was the intention of the title.

What,me? Making an internet reference?  never!   lol

But yes, the larger fantasy kits (mainly the walking alter types)  all have a variety of large parts and several unique characters included,  which i think could be used individually to make a whole heap of goodies.so suddenly a £40 monster such as the dark elf blood cauldron  becomes 4 dark elves, a medusa monster, a bunch of dungeon scenery including alter,cauldron and mirror,and a giant khaine monster.suddenly the price begins to look reasonable when you break the model down to its constituent parts.

p
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on June 24, 2014, 05:39:34 PM
This is an interesting way to look at it. There is very little context appropriate usable equiment in their kits. I was the other day converting a medic and orderly from old Perry imperial guardsmen and it really hit home that there was nothing on my chaos marine sprues I have lying around that was in any way resembling equipment. Some older imperial guard bits i got off ebay were a bit better and some devastator marine sprues had a few things, but generally the "bits" are not equipment at all.

But as you suggest here, if one thinks of the bits more in terms of architectural adornments, then suddenly there could be a use for it all. For example I could make a fence of spikes with skulls impaled on them. Or maybe a wall of skulls with spikes on top.

Why would a chariot have a mirror and a cauldron? It is beyond my feeble understanding.  But yet if we take them out of the chariot and put them in a room, which is the more conventional location for such trappings, suddenly things start to make sense. What is that chaos warshrine all about? Seems to be a bunch of random incongruous things thrown together. But maybe if we take it apart maybe we can make a nice trellis or something...


 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on June 24, 2014, 06:22:32 PM
But to be more serious for a moment I dont really disagree with you nice-e. In terms of the quantity and the production quality of the plastics, then the question of cost isnt so clear. Like with the recent imperial knight, I think many people decided in the end that it was pretty good value.

Problem I always have with this stuff is not the price, but the design element and the corporate strategy behind it. They are designed to be as non-generic as pos, to minimise compatibility with anything else. and then there is the planned obsolescence built into everything of course. all the stuff we have discussed ad infinitum here, but I´ve said it again.

I remember reading an article by a fantasy author who freelanced for GW during the end of the Ansell era and he was saying that the highups at that time were morbidly obsessed with their intellectual property. They just took it to its logical extreme in recent years. The strange "architectural" designs of the models are so singularly odd that I suppose it defines them uniquely as Warhammer.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 24, 2014, 11:07:12 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on June 24, 2014, 06:22:32 PM
But to be more serious for a moment I dont really disagree with you nice-e. In terms of the quantity and the production quality of the plastics, then the question of cost isnt so clear. Like with the recent imperial knight, I think many people decided in the end that it was pretty good value.

Problem I always have with this stuff is not the price, but the design element and the corporate strategy behind it. They are designed to be as non-generic as pos, to minimise compatibility with anything else. and then there is the planned obsolescence built into everything of course. all the stuff we have discussed ad infinitum here, but I´ve said it again.

I remember reading an article by a fantasy author who freelanced for GW during the end of the Ansell era and he was saying that the highups at that time were morbidly obsessed with their intellectual property. They just took it to its logical extreme in recent years. The strange "architectural" designs of the models are so singularly odd that I suppose it defines them uniquely as Warhammer.





well for me that isn't too much of an issue since i like to game in the warhammer world, just not with the warhammer rules.

I suppose i'm looking at it as making molehills out of mountains, breaking down one rather large ungainly thing into several tactile elements that help create a nice thematic set.

Taking the dark elves again, i don't like that model, but i like BITS of it. i wouldn't buy it as "blood cauldron of khaine" but i would buy it as "dark elf cult dungeon pack" .

I think really of course the aesthetics are not going to change if you brake the model into chunks, but it does help you appreciate the many design elements that go into these kits individually, which is often hard when you have an antire grab bag of textures and shapes crammed into one chunky walking church.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 25, 2014, 12:14:37 AM
I quite like that medusa model. A bit too much blood on it though but a nice piece.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 25, 2014, 12:21:12 AM
Quote from: beefcake on June 25, 2014, 12:14:37 AM
I quite like that medusa model. A bit too much blood on it though but a nice piece.

Paint it up as bile or venom?
i think it would be a great end boss.

"Adventurers must defeat the lillith the serpent lich and her dark cult of blood maidens before they can sacrifice the princess and summon the dark god khaines soul into his stone idol."
And right there you've spent £35 on the core of a final dungeon for a short rpg campaign, which to me is worth the price if its all good fun :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 29, 2014, 03:38:10 PM
My understanding is that the Perrys have left GW. Pretty interesting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on June 29, 2014, 03:40:49 PM
 Now that is interesting!  It's hard to think of GW and not think of the Perry's, at least for their long period of contributions to the various lines, even if it was less today.  On the other side, more time for them to expand their own business.  That cant be a bad thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on June 29, 2014, 03:45:12 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on June 29, 2014, 03:38:10 PM
My understanding is that the Perrys have left GW. Pretty interesting.

That's probably the most interesting news this thread has generated!

Wonder what prompted it - a bad thing for GW, a great thing for historical gamers!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on June 29, 2014, 05:23:48 PM
Weren't the Perrys only working on LotR (and Hobbit) figures?

This'll surely give them more time to work on their own thing... Win Win  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 29, 2014, 07:18:47 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on June 29, 2014, 05:23:48 PM
Weren't the Perrys only working on LotR (and Hobbit) figures?

I think that's what they were doing these later years - earlier on they sculpted a lot of minis for GW, especially Bretonnians (surprise!).

But yes, they seem to have a good thing going on with their own ranges, and that's not too shabby!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 29, 2014, 09:12:38 PM
i contacted them once asking if there was any chance of them releasing fantasy lines as well as historical ones, and they said that they couldn't due to their contract with games workshop.
Obviously historicals are where their hearts are , but it'd be all kinds of nice to see them release a couple of fantasy kits to spice up the war of the roses.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 30, 2014, 02:22:42 AM
You know, I'd actually thought they had stopped working for GW a few years back!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on June 30, 2014, 02:28:17 AM
Quote from: nic-e on June 29, 2014, 09:12:38 PM
i contacted them once asking if there was any chance of them releasing fantasy lines as well as historical ones, and they said that they couldn't due to their contract with games workshop.
Obviously historicals are where their hearts are , but it'd be all kinds of nice to see them release a couple of fantasy kits to spice up the war of the roses.

Surely the non compete would only be for X amount of time, I doubt it would be permeant.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 30, 2014, 02:37:52 AM
I would imagine if they aren't working for them any longer that would cease a contract holding them to this. I doubt GW would put that into a contract for fear of driving them away earlier. (I say doubt, but wouldn't be surprised if they did)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 30, 2014, 05:58:51 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on June 30, 2014, 02:22:42 AM
You know, I'd actually thought they had stopped working for GW a few years back!  ;D

Me too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 30, 2014, 08:52:25 PM
Quote from: beefcake on June 30, 2014, 02:37:52 AM
I would imagine if they aren't working for them any longer that would cease a contract holding them to this. I doubt GW would put that into a contract for fear of driving them away earlier. (I say doubt, but wouldn't be surprised if they did)

How would that even work? An employment contract not allowing you to produce a particular type of product after you stop being employed by said company?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on June 30, 2014, 09:03:56 PM
Quote from: YPU on June 30, 2014, 08:52:25 PM
How would that even work? An employment contract not allowing you to produce a particular type of product after you stop being employed by said company?

Yes. That's a "non-compete clause". There's a time limit attached to them, so that you can't crush your former employers with your mad skills.

Happens all the time in big business. Or small business. Even in the miniatures business.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr.J on June 30, 2014, 09:27:03 PM
On Perry's fb page:

Quote
We are aware that there are rumours flying around that we have left Games Workshop! Thought we should set the record straight and let you all know that…we have! After 36 years, man and boy, working on Warhammer, 40K and of course, for the last 15 years LotR and the Hobbit we are now able to focus our energy on our historical ranges.This means more time to dedicate to Perry Miniatures, and of course Mr Jackson who we continue to make 54mm WW1 figures for. We had an excellent evening on Friday at The Trip to Jerusalem with GW, and ex-GW, colleagues and friends who got us very, very drunk - cheers!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on June 30, 2014, 10:57:46 PM
Well, from the proverbial horses mouth  :)

I wonder what they have in store  8)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 30, 2014, 11:02:07 PM
Last 15 years, i started with the lord of the rings miniatures .....does that mean I really have been collecting miniatures for 15 years?!??! Im not even 20...-_-
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on June 30, 2014, 11:41:54 PM
Wonder if they would ever do Samurai in plastics.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 01, 2014, 05:45:21 AM
Quote from: carlos13th on June 30, 2014, 11:41:54 PM
Wonder if they would ever do Samurai in plastics.

Bloody awesome if they did  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on July 01, 2014, 06:05:10 AM
They would blow the WGF stuff out of the water thats for sure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 01, 2014, 06:12:54 AM
I wants perry fantasy stuff!!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 01, 2014, 06:21:31 AM
Here's an old thread on TMP regarding Perry plastic samurai. At the time I didn't think samurai could be done at all (mainly because of the lacing) with two part molds. I think the method WGF used to split the legs did a pretty good job of addressing the lacing problem, so they proved me wrong.

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=221803

It would be nice to see Perry do a plastic Asian set but I'm not going to hold my breath- I'm sure they have other priorities. Plus at this point I'm suspecting its Renedra that's holding back the Perry plastics.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 01, 2014, 06:26:05 AM
Maybe the solution is bigger tooling. I've heard that Renedra, as awesome as they are, are the bottleneck in plastic production.

Perry Toolings? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 01, 2014, 10:36:24 AM
Quote from: YPU on June 30, 2014, 08:52:25 PM
How would that even work?

From what I hear, it doesn't.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on July 01, 2014, 12:37:53 PM
Quote
That's probably the most interesting news this thread has generated!

Wonder what prompted it - a bad thing for GW, a great thing for historical gamers!

I was thinking the same thing, Grant. I don't really know who is left to do the sculpting at GW now... As for the question of whether or not they might do fantasy figures, I think they probably left GW to concentrate on their historical stuff, aside from all the other stuff...

Hopefully they will finish off all those part completed lines, such as the Crusades range, expanding it to third and fourth and beyond!

Although a box of plastic third/fourth crusade knights and men at arms would be very very good :)

A bit off topic, but why are some manufacturers shy of telling us who sculpted their lines? The Reaper stuff says on the labels.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on July 01, 2014, 12:48:27 PM
Quote from: westwaller on July 01, 2014, 12:37:53 PM
A bit off topic, but why are some manufacturers shy of telling us who sculpted their lines? The Reaper stuff says on the labels.

To promote and strengthen their own brand I think. GW does not want to sell Brian Nelson Orks they want to sell GW Orks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on July 01, 2014, 12:54:19 PM
Because some companies (notably Foundry) got into problems by building up 'celebrity sculptors', promoted alongside the ranges they had designed - only to find that having boosted the reputations of said sculptors, several of them promptly buggered off and started their own rival labels... And who can blame them?

So yes, it's great for the wargamer or collector to know the provenance of a particular range or model, but I've noticed an increasing trend over the last few years for larger miniatures manufacturers to NOT signpost who the sculptor is. Or at least, not to promote it actively - which is what many of them used to do a few years back.

In some cases, the style is so distinctive, it's pretty obvious of course... (Mr Hicks! ;))
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 01, 2014, 09:56:41 PM
Quote from: westwaller on July 01, 2014, 12:37:53 PM
I was thinking the same thing, Grant. I don't really know who is left to do the sculpting at GW now...

Jes Goodwin, Brian Nelson, Seb Perbett... I wonder if Steve Buddle and Alex Hedström are still there too?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 01, 2014, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 01, 2014, 09:56:41 PM
Jes Goodwin, Brian Nelson, Seb Perbett... I wonder if Steve Buddle and Alex Hedström are still there too?

Are we going to be seeing ALOT more foot on rock now that the perries have taken their ability to create matching length legs away?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 01, 2014, 10:55:44 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 01, 2014, 09:56:41 PM
Jes Goodwin, Brian Nelson, Seb Perbett... I wonder if Steve Buddle and Alex Hedström are still there too?

Didn't Buddle just start in the past year?

Goodwin is the Grand Old Man there now... odd, isn't it? I'm pretty sure he pre-dates angels on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on July 02, 2014, 02:49:31 PM
I have to admit, that I have not really known who sculpts for GW for ages now I gave up on WD in about 1996 I think.. Thanks for all your interesting replies on this subject :).

 I do remember that they always used to tell you who had sculpted the latest FANTASTIC miniature, and the adverts/new releases bit at the back always had 'Sculpted by Jes Goodwin/The Perry Twins...etc written underneath the miniatures.

I get the bit about GW Orks and not Brian Nelson Orks, but it seems to limit the credit that the sculptor gets, which is a shame.

I personally think The Perry twins, Mr Hicks and Nick Collier have very distinctive styles. Not that others are not as good, it is just I can usually recognise the work of the above guys quite easily.

I guess it is time to open up 'The Perry Speculation Thread'. I hope they still choose to follow their own path and pursue the lines that they want to do- it can get frustrating... but it is good to see creative people driven by what they want for a change!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 03, 2014, 12:23:11 AM
I googled for "Perry twins" and got this:

(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8201/activatemybodyallmixes2la9.jpg)

Should I be worried?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on July 03, 2014, 12:34:09 AM
Its their new boyband range
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 03, 2014, 03:05:16 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 03, 2014, 12:23:11 AM
I googled for "Perry twins" and got this:

(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8201/activatemybodyallmixes2la9.jpg)

Should I be worried?  lol

That's hot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 03, 2014, 04:24:08 AM
They sculpt and sing! I never knew they were so talented!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on July 03, 2014, 05:58:19 AM
...and Katie Perry?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 03, 2014, 06:36:01 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 03, 2014, 12:23:11 AM
Should I be worried?  lol

Possibly not but the rest of us are  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pijlie on July 07, 2014, 08:49:38 AM
No wargaming blog would be complete without referring to Games Workshop.

The company has as many fans as detractors, but it can hardly be denied that GW has had an enormous influence on the wargaming hobby. Many current wargamers started with GW games, even if they no longer play them. And a large part of the "new batch" still enters the hobby through GW's products. Still any topic dealing with GW in general terms, their products or their policies risks erupting into bitter disputes very soon.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-54RrV6oKZn4/T4tmSj1S5xI/AAAAAAAABBo/2rm9XcAlryc/s1600/bloodbowl.jpg)

There are as many reasons why this is so as there are people discussing GW, so I will not attempt summaries and analyses. Instead, I will just examine my own opinion. It's a …..

Interested? Read more on my blog http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2014/07/gw-guilty-as-charged.html (http://pijlieblog.blogspot.nl/2014/07/gw-guilty-as-charged.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on July 07, 2014, 10:27:16 PM
Excellent blog post.

And with a sad heart I have to agree with you.

I remember in one edition of White Dwarf getting a free hex game which was set on the Emperors Battle Barge at the time that Horus rebelled. It was a lovely little game which I happily played many times and was a brilliantly creative freebie. It made me happy to be a subscriber. (Sadly I no longer have the game)

I cant remember the last time GW made me feel just that ... happy. In a carefree generous way. Happy that their figures are nice after Ive dropped £20-30 on them yes but thats not carefree happy as a hobby supplier shoukd make me feel. Thats a 'I gave you good money so give me a good product' happy.

There is no generosity from them, not even within their creativity.  The story lines stand still. The over the top grimdark is suffocating.  This is a game, it should be fun.

But I digress, I recommend the blog article. Well written and with good images.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 08, 2014, 11:44:08 AM
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OOP-Warhammer-40k-Space-Marines-Limited-Edition-Metal-Thunderhawk-Gunship-BNIB-/321436216164?clk_rvr_id=663744121857&mfe=share&mpt=08_07_2014_11_07_30813942269

Seriously?  This butt head doesnt even include shipping in the nearly 3000,00 price!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 08, 2014, 11:55:38 AM
Quote from: Archie on July 07, 2014, 10:27:16 PM

I remember in one edition of White Dwarf getting a free hex game which was set on the Emperors Battle Barge at the time that Horus rebelled. It was a lovely little game which I happily played many times and was a brilliantly creative freebie. It made me happy to be a subscriber. (Sadly I no longer have the game)

I remember back when the website would have all these small mini-games on it. I specifically remember a chariot racing game and particularly a skaven pit arena game, including all sorts of interesting "upgrades" and a campaign system.

I had little interest in Skaven up to that point and those rules made me buy a couple of giant rats on whim because those rules were so cool. Seems like a good business model to me. We can all see how a few models for a mini game turn into the starting point for a whole new army. But I would be all right with that strategy working on me.

I feel old and nostalgic, I really shouldn't hang out on a forum with this many old folks.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 08, 2014, 02:14:00 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on July 08, 2014, 11:44:08 AM
Seriously?  This butt head doesnt even include shipping in the nearly 3000,00 price!

How are they a "butt head"? Its rare as heck and its even rarer to see one unassembled and complete.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 08, 2014, 02:28:13 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 08, 2014, 02:14:00 PM
How are they a "butt head"? Its rare as heck and its even rarer to see one unassembled and complete.

Just because something is old or rare does not give it automatic value.  That said, the reason for my observation is simple, if I sell you a toothpick for 5,000,000 and then ask you to pay the shipping, I'm a Butt Head. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: WitchfinderGeneral on July 08, 2014, 03:02:46 PM
And I saw this going for less...

@Pijlie: Nice read! I started with the same games (found Epic and Necromunda more interesting than 40K or WHFB) and I was blown away when I saw that there was MUCH MORE other stuff in the "hobby" than just GW. Then quickly I became fed up with all the people who were trying to tell me that I can ONLY use THIS edition rules and only THAT figures because they are the only right ones and everything else is wrong. I still hate this so much. Especially in fantasy and sci-fi this makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 08, 2014, 03:13:42 PM
Hmm. Dunno what to make of the assertion that the LotR game was a reskinned Warhammer. From what I've seen it was more different to that, than Necromunda was to 40K.

Otherwise, yeah. For me Epic: Armageddon was an (the) eye-opener to what a real wargame was like.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 08, 2014, 04:08:54 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on July 08, 2014, 02:28:13 PM
Just because something is old or rare does not give it automatic value.

I would suggest that you probably don't understand the relative rarity of the object in question or its original asking price. Or understand what the word 'rare' means.

Quote
That said, the reason for my observation is simple, if I sell you a toothpick for 5,000,000 and then ask you to pay the shipping, I'm a Butt Head. :D

I think you're just not really making any sense at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 08, 2014, 05:43:25 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 08, 2014, 04:08:54 PM
I would suggest that you probably don't understand the relative rarity of the object in question or its original asking price. Or understand what the word 'rare' means.

I think you're just not really making any sense at all.

That's the Market mate.  If you think it's a deal, have at it!  If I think it's a rip, I save my 3k! win win! :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 09, 2014, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on July 08, 2014, 05:43:25 PM
That's the Market mate.  If you think it's a deal, have at it!  If I think it's a rip, I save my 3k! win win! :D

I think you've got it right TBC. I wouldn't pay 3k for a Thunderbird either! Crazy. There used to be a thread on Hateseer about crazy ebay prices.

A sucker every minute...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 09, 2014, 03:26:25 PM
Quote from: grant on July 09, 2014, 02:26:03 PM
A sucker every minute...

I understand that some people don't think the price is appropriate (that is an entirely different discussion) but I really fail to see how the pejoratives are necessary in this case.

Its easy to look down your nose when its something that doesn't interest you or that you don't value but I suspect there are many people in the world who'd think that, for instance, someone was "crazy" for getting custom made decals for a vehicle from a badly written, kid's animated TV show  ;)

My kids are totally jealous BTW  :)

I know that this is the GW bashing thread but the guy that is selling that is a hobbyist and I suspect that if he sells it, that it will be to another hobbyist, so you're both really just casting dispersions at people who are probably pretty much the same as you both.

Maybe just with more money  ;) Although if Grant manages to sell off his insane collection of Wings of War miniatures and expansions that might not be the case. What did you value that collection at again Grant?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 09, 2014, 03:40:32 PM
@ TBC:

Collectables, especially miniatures, are funny things and don't always scale in value as you might expect.

In the case of the metal Thunderhawk, is it better to have it assembled or not? For some, the "pristine" condition is collectable and rare in its own right. For others, the value is similar, because they want to be the first to make that model. For still others, it's a nightmare to assemble, and buying one assembled well is worth a premium.

Adjusted for inflation, the original 1996 asking price of £400.00 would be about £660.00 in today's money.

So, for something which was only cast as 500 sets worldwide, and which has been totally out of production for nearly twenty years, what would that add in value as an iconic collectable model?

The seller you've highlighted is asking for £1,900.00 plus shipping.

There's a chap here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-40k-Limited-Edition-Metal-Space-Marine-Thunderhawk-Gunship-/251425666231?pt=Games_US&hash=item3a8a2334b7) selling one for about £1,200.00. Looks to be pretty much mint.

Another here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thunderhawk-Gunship-Metal-with-Box-Warhammer-40k-Games-Workshop-Limited-Edition-/321371685691?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item4ad33ec33b) wants £1,000.00 for his, but it's been assembled, and all the other "incidentals" are missing or damaged. Also, I'd be wary of this being a fake (legit box with everything else missing, pre-assembled and primed black... could easily be fake).

Thing is that over the years, I've seen these in various conditions go for a lot less, and also for a lot more.

At 10kg, and being a fairly rare and collectible expensive model (even at the original price of £400!), why should the seller take on the cost of insured signed-for shipping anywhere in the world? What's wrong with just quoting each country? Because he's asking for a high price, he should somehow be "morally obliged" to ship it anywhere in the world for free according to you? Pfft.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 09, 2014, 03:54:29 PM
Not valued - sold! $1400 is what I got for my Wings of War. Solid! Also, halfway to a Thundehawk!

Now come on pg, get with the spirit and get a bash in. Chicks dig it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 09, 2014, 04:19:17 PM
Quote from: grant on July 09, 2014, 03:54:29 PM
Now come on pg, get with the spirit and get a bash in. Chicks dig it!

I'd try but GW has got to the point of self-parody now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 09, 2014, 05:07:48 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 09, 2014, 04:19:17 PM
I'd try but GW has got to the point of self-parody now.

So true, isn't it?

A bit sad. :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 09, 2014, 06:03:27 PM
Quote from: grant on July 09, 2014, 05:07:48 PM
A bit sad. :(

On a Beasts of War post on Facebook some fellow mentioned that he had recently spent £140 on 40K rules and codexes recently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on July 09, 2014, 06:14:57 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 09, 2014, 06:03:27 PM
On a Beasts of War post on Facebook some fellow mentioned that he had recently spent £140 on 40K rules and codexes recently.

Im still playing 3 editions back, on the VERY RARE occasion I actually game, although if they are 'hard core fanatic's' I suppose paying that on a hobby is normal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 09, 2014, 06:27:26 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 09, 2014, 03:40:32 PM
@ TBC:

Collectables, especially miniatures, are funny things and don't always scale in value as you might expect.

In the case of the metal Thunderhawk, is it better to have it assembled or not? For some, the "pristine" condition is collectable and rare in its own right. For others, the value is similar, because they want to be the first to make that model. For still others, it's a nightmare to assemble, and buying one assembled well is worth a premium.

Adjusted for inflation, the original 1996 asking price of £400.00 would be about £660.00 in today's money.

So, for something which was only cast as 500 sets worldwide, and which has been totally out of production for nearly twenty years, what would that add in value as an iconic collectable model?

The seller you've highlighted is asking for £1,900.00 plus shipping.

There's a chap here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-40k-Limited-Edition-Metal-Space-Marine-Thunderhawk-Gunship-/251425666231?pt=Games_US&hash=item3a8a2334b7) selling one for about £1,200.00. Looks to be pretty much mint.

Another here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thunderhawk-Gunship-Metal-with-Box-Warhammer-40k-Games-Workshop-Limited-Edition-/321371685691?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item4ad33ec33b) wants £1,000.00 for his, but it's been assembled, and all the other "incidentals" are missing or damaged. Also, I'd be wary of this being a fake (legit box with everything else missing, pre-assembled and primed black... could easily be fake).

Thing is that over the years, I've seen these in various conditions go for a lot less, and also for a lot more.

At 10kg, and being a fairly rare and collectible expensive model (even at the original price of £400!), why should the seller take on the cost of insured signed-for shipping anywhere in the world? What's wrong with just quoting each country? Because he's asking for a high price, he should somehow be "morally obliged" to ship it anywhere in the world for free according to you? Pfft.  ::)


My 'point' was more a joke that anyone asking 3k for a model could more than afford to kick in the shipping, that's all.  Someone just took it all too seriously. :D

All that said, whatever you personally are willing to shell out for something that you find value for, is 100% your business.   I have zero desire to try and convince you otherwise.  If you think a cardboard table is worth $100.00, have at it.  Same here.  If you see it all as a 'deal' for all the reasons you offered, what do I care?  And again, why would you care that I dont?  Sort of doesnt make sense to me to even discuss.  That's the other reason I cut the conversation short, these are just toys...

Cheers!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 09, 2014, 07:16:24 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on July 09, 2014, 06:14:57 PM
Im still playing 3 editions back, on the VERY RARE occasion I actually game, although if they are 'hard core fanatic's' I suppose paying that on a hobby is normal.

If you play in a group that keeps current or you play tournament games then you need the most recent books. I suspect that those players would probably not want to spend that sort of cash in any case  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 09, 2014, 11:03:23 PM
Always wanted to go back to 2nd edition 40k. Best edition of the game - just pure fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on July 09, 2014, 11:30:10 PM
Pixelgeek ...come on confess all ...which TV show?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 10, 2014, 03:03:13 AM
Quote from: Archie on July 09, 2014, 11:30:10 PM
Pixelgeek ...come on confess all ...which TV show?

He's referring to my Scooby Doo, 7TV project  :D
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=67487.msg816391#msg816391
(http://soldatetain.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/mysery.jpg?w=438)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on July 10, 2014, 11:10:50 AM
Quote from: grant on July 09, 2014, 11:03:23 PM
Always wanted to go back to 2nd edition 40k. Best edition of the game - just pure fun.

Why don't you, then? I'm sure you can find likeminded gamers to play it with, and if you don't have the rulebooks anymore, you can probably get them quite easily.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 10, 2014, 01:46:05 PM
I've got a load of 2nd Edition books I need to ditch at some point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 10, 2014, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 10, 2014, 01:46:05 PM
I've got a load of 2nd Edition books I need to ditch at some point.

Get behind me, Satan!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 10, 2014, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: grant on July 09, 2014, 11:03:23 PM
Always wanted to go back to 2nd edition 40k. Best edition of the game - just pure fun.

I still have everything for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 10, 2014, 02:28:32 PM
I too have nearly everything for 2E40k, including all the cards, powers, WD wargear and strategy cards, and army books. Missing the scenario pack(s?) though.

As long as the points are set around 1200-2000, and you play with forces that vaguely resemble the Studio armies in terms of composition, the game runs extremely well indeed.

However, it is very prone to beardy "min-maxing" (regardless of whether it is scenario or points play) if you're just playing pick-up games.

It was/is great fun though, and if you can find some people who are willing to play (and agree what sport of game you want to have), then it's definitely worth a re-visit.

I would also recommend modifying the missions; copy over the official ones to some blank cards, and then also add a few more of your own devising. It helps to mix things up a bit more, and is fairer/more fun for both players. You could also make a small deployment deck/table that determines how you both deploy on the table after you've drawn your missions - again, helps to keep things interesting! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 10, 2014, 05:33:11 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 10, 2014, 01:48:11 PM
I still have everything for it.

I saw that once...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on July 10, 2014, 08:33:23 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 10, 2014, 02:28:32 PM
I too have nearly everything for 2E40k, including all the cards, powers, WD wargear and strategy cards, and army books. Missing the scenario pack(s?) though.

As long as the points are set around 1200-2000, and you play with forces that vaguely resemble the Studio armies in terms of composition, the game runs extremely well indeed.
I've got about the same collection. I dreamed of playing 2nd edition again, but when I finally got some friends to try it, the results were unsatisfying.
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2011/11/vintage-warhammer-40k-2nd-edition.html
 I haven't totally given up on trying again someday, but it will be a while. Still, it's the era of 40k I liked best and I'll probably never let go of my full collection of 2nd ed Codices.  They're great for fluff and art. 

Also, I forgot to post this earlier (wasn't aware of this thread either) but I recently sat down and thought about what (from my point of view as an ex 40k player) 40k has going for it. I kind of surprised myself and came up with 5 areas -Universe, Models, Production Values, Long Term Value and Ubiquity- where 40k and GW really shine, so I wrote it up as a sort of editorial.
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2014/06/in-praise-of-warhammer-40000-and-games.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 10, 2014, 08:52:33 PM
Forgive me, but was 2e the big box set edition?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on July 10, 2014, 09:13:24 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on July 10, 2014, 08:52:33 PM
Forgive me, but was 2e the big box set edition?

Yes, the first big box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 10, 2014, 09:29:03 PM
Quote from: Argonor on July 10, 2014, 09:13:24 PM
Yes, the first big box.

Cheers, that's the one I came in on then as well.  I agree with the earlier post that pointed out that with set armies the game played well, but it was prone to severe munchkinism as well.  But it does bring back nice memories!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on July 11, 2014, 12:06:49 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on July 10, 2014, 08:52:33 PM
Forgive me, but was 2e the big box set edition?
It was the big box with lots of monopose Orks, Gretchin and Space Marines, Card Terrain and 3 rulebooks.

The next big box was 3rd edition that had Multipart Space marines and dark eldar and vehicles and one big rulebook that was just like the book sold separately, but in softcover. 3rd edition was also the last to include pointed army lists for all armies.

In retrospect, both those boxes were a pretty good deal. Imagine a ruleset or starter box from GW that actually gives you stats for the models you already own.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 11, 2014, 03:19:26 AM
Quote from: eilif on July 11, 2014, 12:06:49 AM
It was the big box with lots of monopose Orks, Gretchin and Space Marines, Card Terrain and 3 rulebooks.

The next big box was 3rd edition that had Multipart Space marines and dark eldar and vehicles and one big rulebook that was just like the book sold separately, but in softcover. 3rd edition was also the last to include pointed army lists for all armies.

In retrospect, both those boxes were a pretty good deal. Imagine a ruleset or starter box from GW that actually gives you stats for the models you already own.

That cinches it, I started in 2e.  Cheers Mate!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 11, 2014, 05:10:53 AM
Yep, gotta love 2nd ed. Started me in 40k too I still have my old school tyranid army and the 2nd ed codex has the rules for genestealer cults :) which Mr Saturday is making me buy more of for my own cult!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 11, 2014, 05:26:58 AM
I was always an Ork player. Well, I did an a Eldar army 2nd, too. But I had tons of Orks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 11, 2014, 05:51:15 AM
My bro had eldar. I coudn't stand his warp spiders. They were too overpowered. Jump in, kill my big guys, jump out.  >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 11, 2014, 11:29:12 AM
Well, 40k2E and 3E had to have the pointed lists in the basic book/set because they were each different enough from their predecessors to require "get-you-by" lists until that edition's Codices came out.

The main drawback to 2E is that it's really a skirmish ruleset, not an army ruleset, and when each side has more than about 50 models, it breaks down and gets slow. It also means that you need a *lot* of terrain for a "better" game (even tells you so in the rulebook IIRC), and that also precludes having lots of vehicles or big armies as they just get bogged down in the terrain otherwise.

The reason for all the terrain? Because otherwise it's a line-up-and-shoot deathmatch where more/better shooting will win with minimal tactics. Also, because anything with light armour or that has a CC focus will just be erased from the table without even a whimper when faced with high-volume fire.

That's why the missions/scenarios were so important, and why I felt (even at the time) that they were unbalanced enough to feel rather unfair after spending an entire day playing out a 1750pt game.

I think this is one area where 40k has in fact consistently improved; scenarios that are better balanced and encourage more participation from both players. In fact, thinking about it, I'd be tempted to use some of the the later editions' scenarios with the 2E rules.

Armies-wise, three stood out as being distinctly broken; Eldar , Space Wolves, Chaos. Each had waaay too many options, often undercosted or "free", and the flexibility that they could include usually ameliorated much of their inbuilt weaknesses. If playing with these armies especially, you need to try and either build a specific scenario, or otherwise have a gentleman's agreement to build fluffy rather than beardy armies and to not tailor too much against your opponent.

It is fun though, and if you're looking at playing a series of narratively-linked games, it is really good. It's also quite easy to get into in terms of model-count compared to later editions, especially if you go for a one-of-everything studio army approach.

@ eilif:

I think your experience may have been skewed a bit by having fairly specialised forces, very small armies, and limiting what wargear etc is available. 1500pts is generally reckoned by many to be the sweet-spot, but slightly bigger games up to 2000pts are fairer for some armies that are inflexibly organised and need the extra points to round out a balanced army. Even a 1500pt game will likely take all afternoon to play though. Also, I recommend including "area" terrain as well as buildings and elevations.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on July 11, 2014, 11:36:05 AM
We tried playing 2nd edition several years back and although we had fun, it was mainly because of nostalgic reasons. The rules themselves aren't great and are full of holes. We often had to discuss how to resolve certain situations. And the cheese factor of many weapons and models is absurd in 2nd edition.
So although 3rd and later editions often feel a bit bland, they sure are better as a rules package.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 11, 2014, 11:51:21 AM
Quote from: Malebolgia on July 11, 2014, 11:36:05 AM
The rules themselves aren't great and are full of holes. We often had to discuss how to resolve certain situations. And the cheese factor of many weapons and models is absurd [...].

Every edition has this. It's the number one single reason I get so fed up past a certain point, because instead of improving each edition we just get a churn which changes what's cheesy this time around. And after 7 editions, there is no excuse for rules which are vague, or which are worded very specifically but only for certain situations.

I think that one reason Necromunda was so enduringly popular is that it was 2E with many of the rule shortcomings removed. Of course, the Necromunda campaign system breaks the balance totally again...  o_o

Also, for the record, I really liked 40k3E; even though a fair few areas were a somewhat derpy. But then, I also like Epic 40k hugely, so I guess that puts me in a minority group!  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on July 11, 2014, 12:16:14 PM
True. GW is terrible at writing GOOD rules sets. Sure, they have a lot of fun rules sets but a lot of them aren't well written. Like you, it baffles me that the latest editions of WHFB and 40K still have so many loopholes and weird rules interactions.
It's one of the reasons I love Warmachine so much. It's a really good system in terms of rules and rules interactions. And yes, sometimes the interactions can get complicated, but in the end they make sense (from a rules perspective! Rules is not fluff...) and give a strong rules set. IMO the best rules package for competitive gaming.

And I also like Epic a lot. Don't think the RULES are very good (every incarnation, even the latest fan built ones), but the look and feel works like a charm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 11, 2014, 12:46:37 PM
@ Malebolgia:

Totally agree.

I would also say that I have no real objection to playing any edition of 40k or whatever, but I will no longer be buying new editions. Instead, I'll wait until an edition is a few years old (2-3 years after a "new edition" release) and buy up whatever I want for cheap - for example, I got a lot of 40k2E Codex books and WHFB5E Army books for less than I could have possibly bought them originally, and that's without factoring in inflation!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on July 11, 2014, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on July 11, 2014, 12:16:14 PM
GW is terrible at writing GOOD rules sets.

Really? I would argue that thier Necromunda - LotR, - 'Legends of' rule sets still are the BEST skirmish games ever written.
They get copied by just about everyone, but the original rules still endure and they still get homebrew 'skins' written for them every year...

I agree that 40K is currently broken and for the last few years have gone back to playing earlier versions...
Same with Fantasy, some of the earlier versions were SO much fun to play, especially if you played Goblins....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 11, 2014, 01:18:40 PM
I think they can write good rule sets (and I like most of the Specialist Games, particularly Epic:A, thangyewverrimush  :P ), but I think it's plain by now - what with everything else like trade embargos, cease-and-desist orders popping off everywhere, the 'GW hobby is buying GW' bit out of the Chapterhouse court case, the rumours of management viewing GW customers as 'sheep', and so on - that they don't want to. At this point the main aim of new editions and new army books is to shake things up, make things different again so that existing customers have to buy more minis to keep up with the new 'meta'. They apparently see a spike in sales with each new edition, so after the tumble their stocks prices took earlier in the year, is it much of a surprise to see 7th ed 40K after only two years of 6th, and with 'unbound' and rampant daemon-summoning added to each army?

But then there's the train of thought that even 40K and WHFB are well-written games - for children. The 12-14yo target market. All the big, flashy models with lethal special rules; the relentlessly tooth-gritted grimdark 'adult' setting*; aaall the stats and rules and special rules to memorise**; most of the gameplay boiling down to how you build your army list and strategy off-table, so you can wind 'em up and let 'em go on-table, with a minimum of analytical reaction or tactical thinking needed***; actual comments from Jervis and others that SGs were for older gamers, and would need to be changed to appeal to kids. All about the core two catering to younger minds.

*I've seen some old gamers who started with Rogue Trader or 2nd ed, claiming that the setting then was kewl and appealing to them as kids because it was grimdark and 'adult', but the setting now is ruined in an effort to seem kewl and appealing to kids by being, er, grimdark and 'adult'. o_o (the difference is 'jokes,' apparently)

**I'd hazard it's something like memorising long dinosaur names and how they're supposed to be pronounced.

***And I'd hazard that's like that warm glow from knowing that the stats on your top trumps card 'trumped' your opponent, even though the most you contributed to the outcome was merely possessing the card in a randomly shuffled deck.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 11, 2014, 01:58:25 PM
Quote from: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on July 11, 2014, 12:50:54 PM
Really? I would argue that thier Necromunda - LotR, - 'Legends of' rule sets still are the BEST skirmish games ever written.
They get copied by just about everyone, but the original rules still endure and they still get homebrew 'skins' written for them every year...

That game mechanics are good is not the same as rule explanations that are good, or even rule explanations that don't have loopholes. I think that's what Malebolgia was getting at.

To illustrate, from the 6E Dark Angels codex, we have this little gem:

"Only one of each Relic may be taken per army.
A model can replace one weapon with one of the following."

This is from a page of special "relic wargear" that some characters are allowed to choose from. The first part is clear enough. The second part... Not so much. The contention is whether a model can replace one weapon in total, or different weapons on a one-to-one basis (eg, I could swap a bolt pistol and chainsword for a relic gun and a relic sword).

Every GW rule set I've read is filled with these sorts of little rubs, and it is really tedious to have to discuss them for every army with every opponent for every edition. Also, different people read each rule differently and may or may not feel strongly about it; do you play with a different agreement every time?

Quote from: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on July 11, 2014, 12:50:54 PM
I agree that 40K is currently broken and for the last few years have gone back to playing earlier versions...
Same with Fantasy, some of the earlier versions were SO much fun to play, especially if you played Goblins....

40k is no more broken now (albeit I'm on 6E) than it was in any edition  previously. It's just that each edition changes things around to break the game in a new and different way.

Every edition has a few rules that were abused, and which therefore favoured certain armies (above and beyond individual army book power). Most of the time, it's not a *huge* deal if you can agree a compromise on the rule with your regular opponents, but it can make pick-up games quite hard.

Which edition you prefer is just that: preference. I liked 3E, but melee and Rhino-rushing was pretty broken. 4E was better in many ways, but the Rending ability (and therefore the Assault cannon) was game-breaking. In 5E, vehicles were king, as were flyers (introduced really for the first time). There's lots more, but you get the idea.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 11, 2014, 04:19:33 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 11, 2014, 01:18:40 PM
I think they can write good rule sets (and I like most of the Specialist Games, particularly Epic:A, thangyewverrimush  :P ),

The Warhammer Historical rules were all written by outside sources. The EpicA rules had more than two years of external playtesting and that goes a long way to explain their success. Even so, Jervis threw in stuff at the last minute that initially unbalanced armies like the Eldar.

Necromunda really is an outlier in that it appears to have been quite fun even being developed internally with no external testing. The Specialist Games edition was, IMO, a lot better ruleset and a lot of that was due to the external playtesting they did.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on July 11, 2014, 04:25:18 PM
The logical exposition of the rules was always confused. I dont know about recent editions, but the stuff they brought out in the late eighties was obviously rushed to publication, without much proofreading. They did playtesting, but not so much in re-drafting and polishing the text it seems.

Btw I am all for bashing the corporate strategy of GW, but I am not so keen on the language of contempt that sometimes emerges in this context. Whether it be people feeling superior because they have been playing historical toy soldiers since the 1970s, or making statements like "i despise competitive players" or expressing contempt for spotty teenagers or people who memorise the rules or whatever, I think it is unnecessary. People will be people and there are much worse things to be. If contempt or despising someone is ever valid, and I personally think it isnt, then maybe save it for more severe cases.
Indeed the problem I have with the GW approach is precisely that. It is the contempt it shows for people.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 11, 2014, 05:14:14 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 11, 2014, 04:19:33 PM
Necromunda really is an outlier in that it appears to have been quite fun even being developed internally with no external testing. The Specialist Games edition was, IMO, a lot better ruleset and a lot of that was due to the external playtesting they did.
I agree that the SG version was better as a ruleset, despite the changes being unbelievably minor. However, the complete and unnecessary steamy pile of poo that are House weapon lists, combined with the lack of address to areas that could really have benefited (skills, skill tables, gang rating calculation, underdog bonus, heavy weapon costings/drawbacks, unbalanced weapons, income generation... the list goes on), shows that SG wasn't really listening to players at all. And don't get me started on the total cock-up of the Outlanders.  :'(

Quote from: weismonsters on July 11, 2014, 04:25:18 PM
[...]the stuff they brought out in the late eighties was obviously rushed to publication, without much proofreading.
Still is!

Quote from: weismonsters on July 11, 2014, 04:25:18 PM
They did playtesting, but not so much in re-drafting and polishing the text it seems.
The game editions are playtested reasonably, but the army books are tested very little. I understand that most testing is usually done in-house at HQ by GW staff volunteers (at staff game-nights and such).

Quote from: weismonsters on July 11, 2014, 04:25:18 PM
Btw I am all for bashing the corporate strategy of GW, but I am not so keen on the language of contempt that sometimes emerges in this context. Whether it be people feeling superior because they have been playing historical toy soldiers since the 1970s, or making statements like "i despise competitive players" or expressing contempt for spotty teenagers or people who memorise the rules or whatever, I think it is unnecessary. People will be people and there are much worse things to be. If contempt or despising someone is ever valid, and I personally think it isnt, then maybe save it for more severe cases.
Indeed the problem I have with the GW approach is precisely that. It is the contempt it shows for people.
Couldn't agree more.

Regardless of people's preferences for any particular style of gameplay, in the end everyone surely wants to play the game with somebody decent who behaves in a sportsmanlike manner and with minimal rules fuss?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 11, 2014, 05:31:28 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fc/Gorkamorka_box.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 11, 2014, 05:49:03 PM
Regarding GW and rules writing, I think Space Hulk is one of the best board games ever made. The scenarios are balanced really well, simple mechanics, lots of choices during your activation. Fun after years and years.

My beef with 40K now (and maybe even since the early days, in hindsight) is that most of the 'gaming' and 'choice' is done ahead of time before the game even starts.

Hell, I still enjoy Block Mania so something may be wrong with me...




Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 11, 2014, 06:02:52 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on July 11, 2014, 05:49:03 PM
My beef with 40K now (and maybe even since the early days, in hindsight) is that most of the 'gaming' and 'choice' is done ahead of time before the game even starts.

While I can see your point, I for one do enjoy tinkering around with idea's for armies and different components. If you look at the gaming community in general you have the same with say magic, where deck building is a huge deal, and role-playing games, where most people create hundreds more characters then they ever play, because its fun.

Naturally your more making a point about the choice of army being such a big deal that it might decide the game beforehand, and thus remove the fun of actually playing which is a fair argument.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 11, 2014, 06:12:08 PM
Quote from: YPU on July 11, 2014, 06:02:52 PM
While I can see your point, I for one do enjoy tinkering around with idea's for armies and different components. If you look at the gaming community in general you have the same with say magic, where deck building is a huge deal, and role-playing games, where most people create hundreds more characters then they ever play, because its fun.

Naturally your more making a point about the choice of army being such a big deal that it might decide the game beforehand, and thus remove the fun of actually playing which is a fair argument.

I know a lot of people play 40K for fun, buy the models they like, do scenarios etc. It just seems like for several years I've seen 'recipe' armies, where someone has a success at a tournament and then you see tons of that same army configuration hit the tables. I guess that's the 'Mathhammer' crowd. Maybe that model of army building is disappearing, but it seems to have infected a lot of other games. Even Infinity players are asking about 'winning' force lists on forums and buy the figures they need to win the game instead of building for fun or acquiring the models for their looks.

I'm probably just unobservant and that sort of stuff has always happened in tabletop gaming :)

I'm not sure what compelled me to pipe in on this discussion  ???

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 11, 2014, 06:23:59 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on July 11, 2014, 04:25:18 PM
expressing contempt for spotty teenagers or people who memorise the rules or whatever, I think it is unnecessary.

Not expressing contempt. Just stating a theory that holds a lot of water. (GW's main target market is children, after all. Is it so unusual to think they might tailor their products towards them?) If kids want to play 40K 'cos it's got all these wikkid space marines and monsters and stuff that automatically do amazing superhuman things, that's alright. If they enjoy all the reams of rules and tables and things because it chimes with their current state of mental development, that's okay. I'm just not that much interested in playing it myself, for my own enjoyment; same way I'm not altogether into Yu-Gi-Oh or Beyblade or snakes 'n' ladders or bang-I-shot-you-nuh-uh-you-didn't that kids do or did get so much out of.

Older people who play GW's core two for beer, pretzels and giggles, I understand that; but I do wonder if they might as well forego the rules and just have the minis go pew pew over the table at eachother. (In fact, given the state of the rules at any one time, that might be a lot more conducive to a good time, and I think I'd personally prefer it) Older gamers who still hold fast to the core two, declaring them superior to any other game; to be deep and tactical; to be reasonably priced; to have that elusive element that no other game can apparently offer them (sheer nostalgia, I think); to have background that they love and want to keep up with despite not liking the rules or minis or prices or other factors (and I've seen all these excuses, several times)... then yeah, I personally think there's something a bit weird about that.

GW's main target market is children. That's fine. The problem in my view is that their actual main market is anywhere from older teens to guys in their 30's or 40's, or at least becoming more so. Kids aren't buying anymore: the days of pocket money blisters are long gone, and I've read anecdotes that even kids who get into tabletop gaming at all, sneer at GW's prices and go straight to Warmachine or another of the new competitors around these days. That increasingly leaves the old (old) guard who can't leave 40K behind, and increasingly leaving them to sustain (or causing them to prolong) GW's 'made for kids but unavailable to kids' situation. It's doing neither party much good, IMO, and the increasingly desperate and bizarre price hikes and releases are even starting to leave those older gamers cold.

That old C S Lewis quote usually pops up in argum... er... discussions like this, usually in defence of GW's core two. "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." But like I said in my last post, 40K itself can contribute to that desire in children: a grim and brooding background, full of fighting, death, powerful beings and other 'adult' things, attached to a 'proper grown-up game' with stats and tables and everything. I know it once dazzled me. Add to that an earlier part of the quote:

"To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development."

Me: when I was younger, I played with toy soldiers in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am older I play with them openly. But that doesn't obviously include rules and gameplay elements, and even whizz-bangs in the fluff, that click more with the (biologically, not pejoratively) adolescent mind. I still want to play, I just don't want to play the same way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 11, 2014, 07:31:38 PM
(http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/arrested-development1.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on July 12, 2014, 10:40:54 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 11, 2014, 06:23:59 PM
Older people who play GW's core two for beer, pretzels and giggles, I understand that; but I do wonder if they might as well forego the rules and just have the minis go pew pew over the table at eachother.
Have you been spying on my gaming nights again? Grrr...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on July 12, 2014, 11:30:53 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on July 11, 2014, 05:49:03 PM
Regarding GW and rules writing, I think Space Hulk is one of the best board games ever made. The scenarios are balanced really well, simple mechanics, lots of choices during your activation. Fun after years and years.



Nice to see I am not alone in this. Space Hulk is a briliant boardgame. At least the basic game ... I thought the later expansions (after Deathwatch) unbalanced things ... Chaos Marines with Conversion beamers killing Terminators on  2+ ... no thanks!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 13, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
Quote from: Vermis on July 11, 2014, 06:23:59 PM
GW's main target market is children.

This gets said over and over again but I think its bullshit. The game is far too highly priced for kids. And I doubt that many kids are really interested in a hobby that has such a high entry point in terms of money or time. What young kid is going to spend $70 on a codex when they could spend less on a game for an XBox or PS?

I don't see young kids buying 40K kit in the way that I saw it a decade ago and I don't even see them playing at all in any of the stores or events I have been to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 13, 2014, 03:22:34 AM
Quote from: Vermis on July 11, 2014, 06:23:59 PM

Older people who play GW's core two for beer, pretzels and giggles, I understand that; but I do wonder if they might as well forego the rules and just have the minis go pew pew over the table at eachother.

Always remember to leave your gun on "no pew"
(http://i.imgur.com/0ZYZpwW.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 13, 2014, 04:10:42 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 13, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
This gets said over and over again but I think its bullshit. The game is far too highly priced for kids. And I doubt that many kids are really interested in a hobby that has such a high entry point in terms of money or time. What young kid is going to spend $70 on a codex when they could spend less on a game for an XBox or PS?

I don't see young kids buying 40K kit in the way that I saw it a decade ago and I don't even see them playing at all in any of the stores or events I have been to.
I have to disagree myself. I believe that their target market is children (well, adolescents and teens at least). The rules are basic enough to be learned by young (well 2nd ed was at least, haven't played any since then). But your points are valid, what kid is going to spend $70 on a codex, maybe this is why they showed a drop in profits last year. They are losing money from entry level gamers, these children will spend their cash on a video game rather than getting into tabletop games where you need to spend a good $300 to get at least a small force together and the relevant rules for your force. Just because something is too highly priced for kids doesn't mean it isn't targeted at them. My 3 year old can't afford a single thing, that is where parents come in.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 13, 2014, 07:44:08 AM
Come on lads, aren't there any new, pricey products to moan at, this is getting boring  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 13, 2014, 08:09:29 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on July 13, 2014, 07:44:08 AM
Come on lads, aren't there any new, pricey products to moan at, this is getting boring  lol

cheers

James

Don't blame me - come on "no pew", like that wasn't good for a laugh?  lol

Also the Mega Orks are ducking insanely priced!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 13, 2014, 08:25:45 AM
I was just saying my 3 year old is a free-loader  lol (she's actually two but it's her birthday tomorrow)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on July 13, 2014, 08:36:15 AM
It's a metaphor for life.
You start off having fun and enjoying yourself as a kid, as you do when you buy your first blister of orks (4 Epic Gobsmashas, in my case). Then you grow up and you channel more and more of yourself into your career - or army. Or armies. Or preferred game.

Then you become a wreck, and you cannot keep up with the hours you have to put in for work, or the new rules and codices. You find yourself embroiled in the rat race, or designing tournament armies. And then comes disillusion, and maybe rebellion - when you see the corporate philosophy taking over from the fun games, and you switch over to Pulp or VSF or anything non-GW. In the end you settle down for the long slog, and learn to live and work and enjoy yourself, which is when you get the odd GW model simply because you like it; and don't mind mixing models from different brands; and splash out in mid-life crisis Kickstarter purchases (oh my god, that's me!); and discover oldhammer or 2nd ed. 40K or Necromunda or Netepic or (best of all  :D ) Man O' War.

Some remain in the rat race, and succeed, and stick to GW all their life, and get their kicks there. Others drop out of life entirely - or gaming, which is when you get bargain armies from sellers, yet feel sad for their loss, and hope they're happy in some other way. And others become celebrated, talented  artists, brilliant at modelling and painting and sculpting and designing tables which may or may not have a touch of GW in them, doesn't matter at all. These are the guys who win the Lead Painters' League, or who don't, but grace us with pics of incredible paint jobs and conversions and tables which leave us wide-eyed with wonder.

'Meh' is an expression I never wrote before now, but I guess it fits.

And did you ever notice how inane the one-line product descriptions on the current GW home page are? Stand-up comedy gold. These are from the page up today:

Roar into battle aboard a mechanised fortress of bloody ruin.

Decimate your enemies with the duo of destruction - they slice and dice all opposition.

Plummet from the skies into the midst of an enemy battle line.
(Why did I read that last one seated on the golden throne? Plummet.)

I still love the Epic Gobsmashas and all the rest to bits, and given the tonnes of grimdark plastic and metal I own and the hours I spent and will spend bashing and throwing paint at them on the paint table, I still can smile inwardly at GW and remember better days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 13, 2014, 09:08:00 AM
One thing I really hate about the GW website is when the text accompanying the picture of the model does nothing but describe the model. There are several pictures, and the option for a 360 degree image, and yet the text will still go over every last thing on the model.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Throgg Possibly not the best example but the first one I found.
Quote
"This finely detailed miniature shows the King of Trolls in all his glory. Throgg’s toughness is denoted by the fact that he leaves weapons thrown at him to remain sticking there as trophies. He possesses thick, scaly and spiked skin and stands with one foot on an immense chain-bound rock-hammer. He has huge muscular arms, one of which is raised as if punching through the air; the fibrous muscles on his torso and legs blend into a thick-toothed maw. His ragged cloak sports various trophies and braids, and skulls are woven into his hair."

 lol

There is a shorter paragraph above with the most basic summary of his fluff. Why not just expand that, and maybe add a bit of what he can do for your army in the game in the text? Thing is, not all the product descriptions do it, some just have fluff or describe the options and accessories the picture may not feature. It's like they toss the job to the work experience kid in some cases, and all he/she can do is describe the model because they know nothing else about it.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Be-lakor-Chaos-Daemon-Prince Another example...

Quote
"Be'lakor is, quite simply, one evil-looking miniature. His torso muscles are incredibly defined, as if carved out of rock, and upon it an eight-pointed scar. He has two ancient-looking horns covered with hooks, rings, chains and skulls, some of which are even attached to his immense wings. A chainmail loin cloth hangs down from his waist and he wears minimal armour plating across his animalistic legs. He possesses a long, rigid tail as part of his bestial appearance; he holds a huge, ragged blade above his head and with his other hand he points towards his next victim."

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 13, 2014, 11:17:37 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 13, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
This gets said over and over again but I think its bullshit. The game is far too highly priced for kids. And I doubt that many kids are really interested in a hobby that has such a high entry point in terms of money or time. What young kid is going to spend $70 on a codex when they could spend less on a game for an XBox or PS?

Most marketting for kids' toys aims at getting the child interested so the parents and grandparents can buy the product. A lot of retail, specifically gifts, gadgets and toys, max out their Christmas sales and then coast for the rest of the year.

I'm sure we're all familiar with the sight of a GW store being rammed to the gills from November onwards with adults clutching a) a piece of paper with details scribbled on them, or b) a tugging child whose eyes are swivelling madly from side to side, trying to calculate the maximum they can get away with asking for.

From my own experiences all I can say is that a lot more GW products were bought for me from the ages of 11 to 17 than I ever bought myself in my lifetime.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 13, 2014, 03:08:11 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 13, 2014, 11:17:37 AM
I'm sure we're all familiar with the sight of a GW store being rammed to the gills from November onwards with adults clutching a) a piece of paper with details scribbled on them, or b) a tugging child whose eyes are swivelling madly from side to side, trying to calculate the maximum they can get away with asking for.

That was rather my point, I don't see that sort of thing any more and I haven't for some time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 13, 2014, 03:45:24 PM
Come visit the developed world (Cardiff being its cultural epicentre), away from the frozen wastes, dangerous wildlife and trees oozing sugar. I'll even let you buy me a beer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 13, 2014, 05:12:25 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 13, 2014, 01:05:27 AM
This gets said over and over again but I think its bullshit. The game is far too highly priced for kids...
I don't see young kids buying 40K kit in the way that I saw it a decade ago and I don't even see them playing at all in any of the stores or events I have been to.

This is because, as Beefcake, Cubs and I said, kids ain't buyin' no more. At least they ain't buyin' themselves. And I'd hazard even parents these days are saying "How much?! That does it, young man, you're gettin' an Xbox..."

... And GW stock takes a... What was it? 24% tumble?

'No pew'  :D

Jim: have we discussed the gorka/morkanauts already? The £6.sumthin per freebooter? The £30 for one placcy gun and a couple of grots?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 13, 2014, 06:11:18 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 13, 2014, 05:12:25 PM
Jim: have we discussed the gorka/morkanauts already? The £6.sumthin per freebooter? The £30 for one placcy gun and a couple of grots?

Nope, piccies please  :D

pew pew  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 13, 2014, 07:31:38 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 13, 2014, 03:45:24 PM
Come visit the developed world (Cardiff being its cultural epicentre), away from the frozen wastes, dangerous wildlife and trees oozing sugar. I'll even let you buy me a beer.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 13, 2014, 08:01:03 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 13, 2014, 03:45:24 PM
Come visit the developed world (Cardiff being its cultural epicentre), away from the frozen wastes, dangerous wildlife and trees oozing sugar. I'll even let you buy me a beer.


 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jp762 on July 13, 2014, 08:03:00 PM
So....2nd is the must have? I have rogue trader, 3rd through to last edition and all codicies? codexes? for 4th through 6th, many for 2nd, imperial armour 1-7 hardback and half a dozen of their softbacks, 13th black crusade book, apocalypse, cityfight (old and newer), chapter approved and many more. I was going to list them individually on ebay but if any 40k fans are interested......

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 13, 2014, 08:23:26 PM
Quote from: Gibby on July 13, 2014, 09:08:00 AM
One thing I really hate about the GW website is when the text accompanying the picture of the model does nothing but describe the model. There are several pictures, and the option for a 360 degree image, and yet the text will still go over every last thing on the model.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Throgg Possibly not the best example but the first one I found.
 lol
Quote
"This finely detailed miniature shows the King of Trolls in all his glory. Throgg’s toughness is denoted by the fact that he leaves weapons thrown at him to remain sticking there as trophies. He possesses thick, scaly and spiked skin and stands with one foot on an immense chain-bound rock-hammer. He has huge muscular arms, one of which is raised as if punching through the air; the fibrous muscles on his torso and legs blend into a thick-toothed maw. His ragged cloak sports various trophies and braids, and skulls are woven into his hair."

Spelling mistake. I believe it is spelled "SKULLZ"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 14, 2014, 09:12:17 AM
Quote from: Gibby on July 13, 2014, 09:08:00 AM
One thing I really hate about the GW website is when the text accompanying the picture of the model does nothing but describe the model. There are several pictures, and the option for a 360 degree image, and yet the text will still go over every last thing on the model.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Throgg Possibly not the best example but the first one I found.
 lol

There is a shorter paragraph above with the most basic summary of his fluff. Why not just expand that, and maybe add a bit of what he can do for your army in the game in the text? Thing is, not all the product descriptions do it, some just have fluff or describe the options and accessories the picture may not feature. It's like they toss the job to the work experience kid in some cases, and all he/she can do is describe the model because they know nothing else about it.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Be-lakor-Chaos-Daemon-Prince Another example...

I always assumed it was to describe the model for people who may not be able to see/access/download the images.

I also suspected that it might be to do with the way search engines index webpages in order to appear higher in the page rankings.

Only new or re-released models have these descriptions, and I have to agree that they are poorly-written and stale.



In other news, the new Ork releases... Well, I'm a bit disappointed frankly. The new characters look pretty awful, not sure I see the point in yet another Ork walker, the plastic Mega Nobz (that we've been waiting for since forever) finally arrived and failed to look intimidating, and the big support guns look hilariously overpriced for something that looks worse than any previous incarnation (and I still think the older 2E looked the best).
Finally, the Flash Gitz; the kit has nice parts and great potential. I've seen people start kitbashing them and it's confirmed that suspicion to me. The out-of-the-box kit builds though look silly even by the comic Ork standards.

The new LE bundle (Sanctus Reach: Stormclaw) has nice characters but seems expensive for what you get compared to Dark Vengeance. I think the Ork Warlord is probably the better of the two special-release models for me.

Will anybody here be getting Sanctus Reach or any of the new Orks?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on July 14, 2014, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on July 13, 2014, 08:36:15 AM
It's a metaphor for life.
You start off having fun and enjoying yourself as a kid, as you do when you buy your first blister of orks (4 Epic Gobsmashas, in my case). Then you grow up and you channel more and more of yourself into your career - or army. Or armies. Or preferred game.

Then you become a wreck, and you cannot keep up with the hours you have to put in for work, or the new rules and codices. You find yourself embroiled in the rat race, or designing tournament armies. And then comes disillusion, and maybe rebellion - when you see the corporate philosophy taking over from the fun games, and you switch over to Pulp or VSF or anything non-GW. In the end you settle down for the long slog, and learn to live and work and enjoy yourself, which is when you get the odd GW model simply because you like it; and don't mind mixing models from different brands; and splash out in mid-life crisis Kickstarter purchases (oh my god, that's me!); and discover oldhammer or 2nd ed. 40K or Necromunda or Netepic or (best of all  :D ) Man O' War.

Some remain in the rat race, and succeed, and stick to GW all their life, and get their kicks there. Others drop out of life entirely - or gaming, which is when you get bargain armies from sellers, yet feel sad for their loss, and hope they're happy in some other way. And others become celebrated, talented  artists, brilliant at modelling and painting and sculpting and designing tables which may or may not have a touch of GW in them, doesn't matter at all. These are the guys who win the Lead Painters' League, or who don't, but grace us with pics of incredible paint jobs and conversions and tables which leave us wide-eyed with wonder.

'Meh' is an expression I never wrote before now, but I guess it fits.

And did you ever notice how inane the one-line product descriptions on the current GW home page are? Stand-up comedy gold. These are from the page up today:

Roar into battle aboard a mechanised fortress of bloody ruin.

Decimate your enemies with the duo of destruction - they slice and dice all opposition.

Plummet from the skies into the midst of an enemy battle line.
(Why did I read that last one seated on the golden throne? Plummet.)

I still love the Epic Gobsmashas and all the rest to bits, and given the tonnes of grimdark plastic and metal I own and the hours I spent and will spend bashing and throwing paint at them on the paint table, I still can smile inwardly at GW and remember better days.

Fantastic post mate. Sums it all up perfectly.

(http://aovgaming.net/resources/awesome_zps36633930.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 14, 2014, 01:07:27 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 14, 2014, 09:12:17 AM
The new LE bundle (Sanctus Reach: Stormclaw) has nice characters but seems expensive for what you get compared to Dark Vengeance. I think the Ork Warlord is probably the better of the two special-release models for me.

Will anybody here be getting Sanctus Reach or any of the new Orks?

I pre-ordered the Sanctus Reach set. I intended to paint up the characters for ebay, probably sell the wolves and keep some of the orky stuff - got an ork force that I have not used for years but this set allows me to add some kans for a bit of fun and I will probably hang on to the boss to because he looks, well, boss.  lol I play against a mate and we keep it fairly squadish based - not too much hardware, bit like the game used to be played. It's still good fun. Not tried the newer versions, think we stopped playing at 5th edition, not rage quitters, just moved on to other games. But looking through my old ork force has got me a little nostalgic and maybe the new toys will encourage me - don't we all buy new stuff with this in mind.

The new set is good value for me, it's about half retail price of buying it all separately. In real terms, that means it's about the same price is was five years ago when I packed it in, so I'm reasonably happy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on July 14, 2014, 03:08:11 PM
Thank you, Malebolgia  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: soldieroftheline on July 15, 2014, 09:13:47 PM
Do WH Smiths know something we don't?

(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e313/soldieroftheline/2014-07-08135005d.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on July 15, 2014, 09:30:35 PM
Quote from: jp762 on July 13, 2014, 08:03:00 PM
So....2nd is the must have? I have rogue trader, 3rd through to last edition and all codicies? codexes? for 4th through 6th, many for 2nd, imperial armour 1-7 hardback and half a dozen of their softbacks, 13th black crusade book, apocalypse, cityfight (old and newer), chapter approved and many more. I was going to list them individually on ebay but if any 40k fans are interested......



If this is serious, im definately interested in the codex cityfight  :D PM me if interested...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 15, 2014, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: soldieroftheline on July 15, 2014, 09:13:47 PM
Do WH Smiths know something we don't?

 lol

Maybe they looked at the gaming mags they get in and thought, "Warhammer Visions? Just a pile of photos of the same set of models, from people calling themselves Games Workshop? That can't be right, shirley..."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 16, 2014, 09:18:54 AM
Quote from: jp762 on July 13, 2014, 08:03:00 PM
So....2nd is the must have? I have rogue trader, 3rd through to last edition and all codicies? codexes? for 4th through 6th, many for 2nd, imperial armour 1-7 hardback and half a dozen of their softbacks, 13th black crusade book, apocalypse, cityfight (old and newer), chapter approved and many more. I was going to list them individually on ebay but if any 40k fans are interested......

If your copy of RT is hardback and in good condition, I might be interested if you're looking to get rid of it.

Likewise, if you have any Chapter Approved or Index Astartes collections (they were collected from WD and published as books), I would also be interested.

Just drop me a PM!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 16, 2014, 11:23:43 AM
I have a slaves to darkness I'm looking to get rid of.  Send me a PM if you're interested
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: WitchfinderGeneral on July 17, 2014, 11:16:41 AM
GW - then and now:

(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--g81qxYWi--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/p6mdfbbfaa0zj7vytr8f.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 17, 2014, 12:51:33 PM
Quote from: WitchfinderGeneral on July 17, 2014, 11:16:41 AM
GW - then and now:

(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--g81qxYWi--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/p6mdfbbfaa0zj7vytr8f.jpg)

Needs more SKULLZZZZZZ  ;)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 17, 2014, 01:39:48 PM
That anthropormorpic turtle is very grimdark.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on July 17, 2014, 11:05:42 PM
Quote from: Scurv on July 17, 2014, 10:58:54 PM
One thing GW does well is inspires you lot to be hella funny.

 lol lol oh yes!

(http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1341/01/1341015201432.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 17, 2014, 11:39:47 PM
Perfect!

Anything but a one ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on July 19, 2014, 11:16:45 PM
A mere £200 for the new Battle Table:

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/touts/2014-07-18/Homepage/single_product/SPT_SectorImperialis.png)

6 2'x2' panels

Unpainted, obviously
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 20, 2014, 01:49:44 AM
Quote from: WitchfinderGeneral on July 17, 2014, 11:16:41 AM
GW - then and now:

(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--g81qxYWi--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/p6mdfbbfaa0zj7vytr8f.jpg)

Trouble is the turtles started out more like the one on the right! I have a feeling that for a lot of older gamers the perception of 40K goes in that direction too, from 'kewl' grimdark to goofy cartoon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 20, 2014, 01:50:51 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed 2nd because it was goofy! Straight up fun. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 20, 2014, 02:21:36 AM
It's not a watertight theory. ;) But the overall point is that if you don't outgrow 40K, 40K outgrows you. Or rather, it forces you to outgrow it in it's efforts to change and appeal to new generations of it's target demographic: kids and teens. Best you can do, if you stick with it, is to do what everyone already said and stick to your favourite old edition.

I think it's a bit similar to what happened with the Star Wars Prequel Wars: on one hand there's very little excuse for midichorians, gungans and Hayden Christensen, but the problem is that the audience who grew up with the 77-86 movies did just that - they grew up. They're not the main market anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 20, 2014, 03:59:13 AM
Quote from: joroas on July 19, 2014, 11:16:45 PM
A mere £200 for the new Battle Table:

Close to $400 Cnd.

You can drop close to $1000 when you add some terrain.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Realm-of-Battle-Ultima-Quadrant

 :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 20, 2014, 04:08:56 AM
Nuts, isn't it?!?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 20, 2014, 05:39:39 AM
Quote from: grant on July 20, 2014, 04:08:56 AM
Nuts, isn't it?!?

That goes beyond nuts. I can't even think of how much regular terrain I could get for $1000.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 20, 2014, 05:42:34 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 20, 2014, 05:39:39 AM
That goes beyond nuts. I can't even think of how much regular terrain I could get for $1000.

Tables and tables worth. At those prices, Grand Manner is like a bargain. And their stuff is amazing! Imagine a $1000 shopping spree there - I almost can't.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 20, 2014, 11:25:23 AM
Quote from: Vermis on July 20, 2014, 02:21:36 AM
But the overall point is that if you don't outgrow 40K, 40K outgrows you. Or rather, it forces you to outgrow it in it's efforts to change and appeal to new generations of it's target demographic: kids and teens.

I used to love the 'Banana Splits' when I was a kid. I watched them again a few years back in a fit of nostalgia ... oh dear ...

Similarly 'Battle of the Planets' (although the title music still rocks). The animation is really stop-start and I never realised just how amazingly camp the bad guy is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 20, 2014, 06:34:26 PM
Yup, that's the kind of thing I mean. ;) Something that was well-loved years ago doesn't hold up when we're older and... well, maybe wiser. But that's maybe preferable to trying to hold onto it over decades as our brains and outlook and tastes change, and as it warps and changes and runs as fast as it can to keep in the same place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen_hypothesis). Personally, I can't rouse much interest in the new Disney Star Wars trilogy 'cos it's not for me. It's not 'my' Star Wars anymore. That was a lesson hard-learned from the prequels.
Or take the ninja turtles: most of my experience of them was watching the wacky early '90s cartoon, but like I say that was spun out of the comic which started as a dark parody of the wave of 'gritty' 80's-'90's comics. Looking at wikipedia, there's been about 5-6 comics series, 5 TV shows (live action and animated, including the current CGI one) and a bunch of movies including the next Michael Bay travesty. (He's already amply demonstrated he shouldn't be allowed near childhood favourites) Now I still have a nostalgic fondness for the TMNT in whatever shape; but couldja be bothered keeping up with them all, let alone faithfully following them, over three decades? And couldja be bothered doing the same with all the versions and incarnations of 40K and it's factions?

A bit more on-topic: yeah, I saw those 40K boards already. What makes them extra-special is that they're the same two boards repeated three times. And they look less like streets than spaceship bulkheads laid over loose dirt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 20, 2014, 06:40:17 PM
Any close ups of the boards and preferably not the GW site as my iPad seems to have fallen out with it  :?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 20, 2014, 07:53:24 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 20, 2014, 06:34:26 PM
Yup, that's the kind of thing I mean. ;) Something that was well-loved years ago doesn't hold up when we're older and... well, maybe wiser. But that's maybe preferable to trying to hold onto it over decades as our brains and outlook and tastes change, and as it warps and changes and runs as fast as it can to keep in the same place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen_hypothesis). Personally, I can't rouse much interest in the new Disney Star Wars trilogy 'cos it's not for me. It's not 'my' Star Wars anymore. That was a lesson hard-learned from the prequels.
Or take the ninja turtles: most of my experience of them was watching the wacky early '90s cartoon, but like I say that was spun out of the comic which started as a dark parody of the wave of 'gritty' 80's-'90's comics. Looking at wikipedia, there's been about 5-6 comics series, 5 TV shows (live action and animated, including the current CGI one) and a bunch of movies including the next Michael Bay travesty. (He's already amply demonstrated he shouldn't be allowed near childhood favourites) Now I still have a nostalgic fondness for the TMNT in whatever shape; but couldja be bothered keeping up with them all, let alone faithfully following them, over three decades? And couldja be bothered doing the same with all the versions and incarnations of 40K and it's factions?

A bit more on-topic: yeah, I saw those 40K boards already. What makes them extra-special is that they're the same two boards repeated three times. And they look less like streets than spaceship bulkheads laid over loose dirt.


Yep, I weep to think how Jj Abramss wiped his butt with Star Trek and Gene Roddenberrys legacy....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on July 20, 2014, 08:02:55 PM
The ROBB are GW's latest attempt at being straight-jacketed and led away to a nice, safe place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on July 20, 2014, 09:42:54 PM
From GW's website:
Quote
There are two tile designs in the set, three of each, which are inspired by the war torn streets of an Imperial city. They can be arranged in any number of different ways to produce an almost endless variety of combinations
lol

Also mentions that the streets are wide enough to accommodate  a baneblade and refers you to a picture where the baneblade doesn't quite fit on the street.
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on July 20, 2014, 09:58:37 PM
Quote from: Diakon on July 20, 2014, 09:42:54 PM
From GW's website: lol

Also mentions that the streets are wide enough to accommodate  a baneblade and refers you to a picture where the baneblade doesn't quite fit on the street.
 lol

That's how the city was destroyed in the first place, after all, not by an alien incursion....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on July 20, 2014, 11:02:32 PM
I have some of their cheaper Cityscape bases, the 6'x4' cardboard roll that has a road system on it and the set of vinyl roads on a roll.

(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i27/Shaz4/war/P1000627.jpg) (http://s68.photobucket.com/user/Shaz4/media/war/P1000627.jpg.html)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 21, 2014, 01:49:51 AM
I also wonder if you outgrow 40k etc because there is so much better stuff out there to play now. Just like the stop motion animation in older movies seems so outdated compared to CGI so too does Warhammer rules compared to more modern rule types.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 21, 2014, 01:58:02 AM
That's definitely a part of it. Moving to historical tank is what did it for me. No more made up game changing uber-weapons that GW makes up to "balance" the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on July 21, 2014, 03:15:10 AM
In the interests of science I have tried to make more precise the number of combinations possible.
Assuming a 3 by 2 set up, and 3 of each tile, there are  6!/(3!3!) combinations. There are 4 orientations of each tile. Also there are symmetries which reduces the amount by half.
So thats 24576 combinations.

So far so good.

Now, a rough calculation shows that on average for each connection about half of the choices of the two orientations produces a road layout that doesnt join up properly. So making a crude approximation that all 7 connections are independent, we have to divide by 128. In other words, of those 24576 combinations, approximately 24384 of them lead to a buggered up road system.

That leaves us with approximately 192 combinations. Call it 200. Thats 1 pound per combination. Viewed this pount of view, we might say that they should sell this product at Poundland.   ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 21, 2014, 03:15:15 AM
Quote from: grant on July 21, 2014, 01:58:02 AM
That's definitely a part of it. Moving to historical tank is what did it for me. No more made up game changing uber-weapons that GW makes up to "balance" the game.

Nope. Just have to deal with the IS2 :-)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 21, 2014, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: Vermis on July 20, 2014, 06:34:26 PM
I saw those 40K boards already. What makes them extra-special is that they're the same two boards repeated three times. And they look less like streets than spaceship bulkheads laid over loose dirt.

I keep looking at them and thinking "In the grim darkness of far future cities, there are only trip hazards"!  lol

For me, whilst I was never a huge fan of the old CRoBB, I was expecting some extra tiles (albeit at additional cost) in this new board so that if you had 8 tiles for a 6'x4' board you could have some genuine (modular) variety at last. Instead, they seem to have gone backwards... And made the whole board flat for some reason. :?

In either instance, I think the wave of Kickstarters that we suffered/experienced last year shows that: 1) people want to pay a lot for low-hassle modular gaming boards that you can stand on (which is important, as I regularly stand on mine to help relieve dull games), and 2) such boards can be made much cheaper and in much more interesting configurations/layouts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 21, 2014, 09:25:13 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on July 21, 2014, 03:15:10 AM
In the interests of science I have tried to make more precise the number of combinations possible.
Assuming a 3 by 2 set up, and 3 of each tile, there are  6!/(3!3!) combinations. There are 4 orientations of each tile. Also there are symmetries which reduces the amount by half.
So thats 24576 combinations.

So far so good.

Now, a rough calculation shows that on average for each connection about half of the choices of the two orientations produces a road layout that doesnt join up properly. So making a crude approximation that all 7 connections are independent, we have to divide by 128. In other words, of those 24576 combinations, approximately 24384 of them lead to a buggered up road system.

That leaves us with approximately 192 combinations. Call it 200. Thats 1 pound per combination. Viewed this pount of view, we might say that they should sell this product at Poundland.   ;)


Sometimes i think i'm not THAT bad at maths, then people like you come along and i skulk back to my cave of innumeracy.  :)

I can honestly believe that these boards cost a fortune (in production terms) to make,but man are they ugly.they're so bumpy that you can't even put the larger pieces of terrain on there, like the skull defense line and the fortress of skulls.how am i meant to play battle for skull city if i can't place the fortress of skullitude on my bumpy board?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 21, 2014, 10:29:36 AM
You have to use the power of greyskull! Oh wait, wrong fantasy realm!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 21, 2014, 11:05:52 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 21, 2014, 10:29:36 AM
You have to use the power of greyskull! Oh wait, wrong fantasy realm!

so we aren't fighting skeletor ? who are we fighting, the red skull?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 21, 2014, 11:42:41 AM
I'm pretty sure skeletor was the bad guy in heroquest so... Maybe?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 21, 2014, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 21, 2014, 11:42:41 AM
I'm pretty sure skeleton was the bad guy in heroquest so... Maybe?

He was indeed, the main bad guy miniature (which isn't zargon the wizard oddly enough) is skeletor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 21, 2014, 02:09:51 PM
I've done Star Wars and TMNT; don't get me started on my He-Man/40K analogy.  lol

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 21, 2014, 08:03:26 AM
For me, whilst I was never a huge fan of the old CRoBB, I was expecting some extra tiles (albeit at additional cost) in this new board so that if you had 8 tiles for a 6'x4' board you could have some genuine (modular) variety at last. Instead, they seem to have gone backwards... And made the whole board flat for some reason. :?

Part of the constant cost-cutting going on these days, I'd guess. Plus the general attitude GW is supposed to have about it's customers...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 21, 2014, 02:22:16 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 21, 2014, 02:09:51 PM
I've done Star Wars and TMNT; don't get me started on my He-Man/40K analogy.  lol

Part of the constant cost-cutting going on these days, I'd guess. Plus the general attitude GW is supposed to have about it's customers...

I'd love a he-man skirmish game, just saying..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 21, 2014, 02:45:37 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 21, 2014, 08:03:26 AM
Instead, they seem to have gone backwards... And made the whole board flat for some reason. :?

I suspect that you can't do city terrain with streets and have multiple heights. Its also for city battles and with the size of some of GW's terrain it would be a nightmare trying to make it fit into a board that wasn't flat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 21, 2014, 03:31:02 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 21, 2014, 02:45:37 PM
I suspect that you can't do city terrain with streets and have multiple heights. Its also for city battles and with the size of some of GW's terrain it would be a nightmare trying to make it fit into a board that wasn't flat.

Well, the old board had hills moulded on it, and people managed to place buildings all over just fine.

Also, isn't the whole point of a modular board that its... modular? So you can just turn the tiles or place them to one end in order to fit in the big buildings?

Besides which, it doesn't look like you could get big buildings with flat bases onto the current board without gaps underneath anyway.

Dunno, I would have expected to see to some product improvement over the previous board, regardless of the ridiculous price charged. That doesn't seem to have happened, which I find a little disappointing if nothing else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 21, 2014, 09:37:42 PM
Honestly, instead of a cardboard gaming table, I wish some 3rd party would make a similar, better and cheaper product....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 21, 2014, 09:57:25 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on July 21, 2014, 09:37:42 PM
Honestly, instead of a cardboard gaming table, I wish some 3rd party would make a similar, better and cheaper product....

secret weapon.
I remember a few years ago i bought a single 2x2 vac formed panel from a shop in wales.the shop is closed now and i dont remember the  company that made the panel, but it cost be £8 and had a big corner hill, it was raised a bit and could be fit with other tiles by a series of small plastic screws.why there isnt a company making cheap vac formed modular tables any more is beyond me, since the tech is cheap and easy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 22, 2014, 01:49:26 AM
I've seen some vacuum made scenery, really cheap too (only postage over this way would be a killer)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 22, 2014, 03:55:35 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 21, 2014, 03:31:02 PM
Well, the old board had hills moulded on it, and people managed to place buildings all over just fine.

Fantasy terrain is smaller than some of the 40K stuff. WFB also has (had?) rules for things like hills where 40K doesn't.

Quote
Also, isn't the whole point of a modular board that its... modular? So you can just turn the tiles or place them to one end in order to fit in the big buildings?

Those two issues aren't the same. This board is clearly modular. Its just not three dimensional.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: WitchfinderGeneral on July 24, 2014, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 21, 2014, 01:49:51 AM
I also wonder if you outgrow 40k etc because there is so much better stuff out there to play now.
Just like the stop motion animation in older movies seems so outdated compared to CGI so too does Warhammer rules compared to more modern rule types.

Bad comparison!
I still prefer Shaun the sheep, Postman Pat or a modern stop motion film like Coraline over CGI any time!
GW today seems more like a lifeless CGI remake (of a remake, of a remake) of a once loved classic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on July 24, 2014, 02:10:34 PM
Quote from: WitchfinderGeneral on July 24, 2014, 01:47:20 PM
Bad comparison!
I still prefer Shaun the sheep, Postman Pat or a modern stop motion film like Coraline over CGI any time!
GW today seems more like a lifeless CGI remake (of a remake, of a remake) of a once loved classic.

Spot on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 24, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Quote from: WitchfinderGeneral on July 24, 2014, 01:47:20 PM
GW today seems more like a lifeless CGI remake (of a remake, of a remake) of a once loved classic.

Aye, that. :) It's not so much that Warhammer's core mechanics are bad, or were always bad; it's that they're not suited to the job of what FB and 40K became. Too many special rules and exceptions, and too many minis and gigantic models on the tabletop. All designed to make the games seem flash and spectacular and kewl, like too much CGI!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on July 24, 2014, 04:50:13 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 24, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
-- what FB and 40K became. Too many special rules and exceptions, and too many minis and gigantic models on the tabletop.

Unlike in the days of Titan Legions, chicken dragons and chaos books with D1000 tables? Wasn't the rant last week that the games have been simplified and dumbed down too much? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 24, 2014, 06:37:07 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on July 24, 2014, 04:50:13 PM
Unlike in the days of Titan Legions, chicken dragons and chaos books with D1000 tables? Wasn't the rant last week that the games have been simplified and dumbed down too much? ;)

Rants change as much as the games  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 24, 2014, 08:52:25 PM
I fairly recently painted up a load of original 'McDeath' (remember that?) models for a customer. I'm afraid to say, nostalgia aside, the actual quality of the sculpting and casting was pretty rustic.

Now, that's not to say I don't prefer the older GW stuff, just that I think everyone has their own 'sweet spot' where it was a little too naive before and a little too cheesy after for their own taste.

Personally I find early to mid-nineties stuff (give or take) to be my own fave, but it does vary from figure to figure as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 24, 2014, 09:59:50 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on July 24, 2014, 04:50:13 PM
Wasn't the rant last week that the games have been simplified and dumbed down too much? ;)

I dunno. I haven't said anything like that, AFAIK, and I don't think anyone else really has. I fervently wish Warhammer would be simplified in some ways!
As it is, I've been talking about how the background might've always been a bit 'dumb', even if it's gotten 'dumber' (please note inverted commas!) and that, along with all the complicated listbuilding rules might be designed to appeal to younger early-teen gamers.

Now I'm talking about how the in-game crunch might've worked when you had 10-20 of your minis on the table, but these days it's more like 100-200. The chicken dragon might have had some wacky rules, I dunno, but I'd guess that they came up pretty rarely. (how many chicken dragons or similar models littered the tables of tourney-mad GW fans back then, compared to riptides and wraithknights and things?) Whereas these days, specific army and unit rules pile up so that even lowly skavenslave speed bumps have to have special rules to make them 'characterful'. Or google the daft situation surrounding the 'always strikes first' special rule, that grew out of the old high elf 'speed of asuryan' rule.

And did you have to consult and roll those d1000 tables several times in the middle of a game? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on July 24, 2014, 10:39:34 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 24, 2014, 09:59:50 PM
these days, specific army and unit rules pile up so that even lowly skavenslave speed bumps have to have special rules to make them 'characterful'.

Yeah definitely seeing that kind of thing in 40k a lot right now.

Also regarding dumbing down/overcomplicated rules I find that 40k seems to be going through a bit of an identity crisis right now. On the one hand it is trying to simplify the rules a bit (the core mechanics, special rules aside, are much simpler than the days of 1st and 2nd edition) but at the same time they've slowly been adding loads of special rules and random tables. And then there's the new Tactical Objectives in the new edition. These are generated from a D66 table as the game goes on and change throughout.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 25, 2014, 03:42:32 AM
Quote from: Cubs on July 24, 2014, 08:52:25 PM
I fairly recently painted up a load of original 'McDeath' (remember that?) models for a customer. I'm afraid to say, nostalgia aside, the actual quality of the sculpting and casting was pretty rustic.

Now, that's not to say I don't prefer the older GW stuff, just that I think everyone has their own 'sweet spot' where it was a little too naive before and a little too cheesy after for their own taste.

Personally I find early to mid-nineties stuff (give or take) to be my own fave, but it does vary from figure to figure as well.
That's about the sweet spot for me too. My favourite GW model of all time was the games day elf hero from 2001 (a late offering for that era, but still very much in the same style).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 25, 2014, 07:22:43 AM
Quote from: WitchfinderGeneral on July 24, 2014, 01:47:20 PM
Bad comparison!
I still prefer Shaun the sheep, Postman Pat or a modern stop motion film like Coraline over CGI any time!
GW today seems more like a lifeless CGI remake (of a remake, of a remake) of a once loved classic.
I guess that's dependent upon your idea of older stop motion movies. Hence the word older. I'm thinking the clunky ones where the animation of creatures was overdone to show excessive movements. I'd take good examples of CGI over that any day. Modern stop motion works great. I'd never knock the likes of Wallace and Grommit where the animation works excellently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 25, 2014, 08:43:52 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 25, 2014, 07:22:43 AM
I guess that's dependent upon your idea of older stop motion movies. Hence the word older. I'm thinking the clunky ones where the animation of creatures was overdone to show excessive movements. I'd take good examples of CGI over that any day. Modern stop motion works great. I'd never knock the likes of Wallace and Grommit where the animation works excellently.

What about ray harryhausen? the latest episode of game of thrones seemingly spent alot of effort making their own walking skeletons move like his,trying to give cgi that sense of weight and real,faltered movement you get in real human motion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 25, 2014, 08:45:43 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 25, 2014, 08:43:52 AM
What about ray harryhausen? the latest episode of game of thrones seemingly spent alot of effort making their own walking skeletons move like his,trying to give cgi that sense of weight and real,faltered movement you get in real human motion.

By clunky I mean, the frame rates.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: redeaston on July 25, 2014, 09:38:24 AM
Having recently revisited 40k because my son was interested in it I can say it’s defiantly not a simple rule set. As mentioned above the basic rules are easy to get your head round but then there are so many special rules for each unit/army that it quickly gets very complex.

I was always more of a fantasy player but the cost of updating my armies to what would be needed to play these days makes it very unlikely I will ever some back to it.

Having said that I do love the Lord of the rings rules and miniatures. The fact I have a large LOTR collection and that you can get some good deals on ebay means that I am still buying games workshop stuff even if it’s indirectly. The price of most of the hobbit figures are excessive and  they are yet to pop up in ebay much so beside the starter set I don’t have any of the Hobbit releases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 29, 2014, 06:22:46 AM
Ohhhhhhhhh lads. Sometimes the gods are kind.

Tom Kirby offers his resignation - buried in a ridiculous, rambling, lunatic diatribe. AKA the annual investor report... leaked a day early! (http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Chairmans-Preamble-2014.pdf)

The comments are gas too.

Quote
Did Tom Kirby actually refer to himself in third person as “Kirby and his cronies?”

It is possible that someone leaked a satire of a letter from Kirby before it was finished?
Quote
My favourite part was where he bets against 3D printers getting to sufficient quality that people will be able to print good quality miniatures at home.

(In Tom's favour - sort of - he IS right that designing miniatures isn't as easy as all that. But you only need a few. And we've got lots even on this board.)
Quote
This document is hilarious. This guy is clearly not a literary genius either. He was “deluged with two comments”… really?
They hire people for attitude and not skill?
Quote
That idiot paid £4 million for a webstore?!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 29, 2014, 06:48:48 AM
The chairman's preamble is pretty odd reading IMO.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 29, 2014, 07:22:22 AM
I'm still boggling over the £4 million they paid for a website redo. That's just insanity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 29, 2014, 09:08:40 AM
but on the bright side, looks like he's stepping down.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 29, 2014, 09:12:43 AM
Only read a little but seems like a piss take. $4,000,000 for a website is a ridiculous expense. I don't think any company could justify spending or in fact charging that amount to build a website. The GW one is t that comprehensive really.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 29, 2014, 09:20:36 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 29, 2014, 09:12:43 AM
Only read a little but seems like a piss take. $4,000,000 for a website is a ridiculous expense. I don't think any company could justify spending or in fact charging that amount to build a website. The GW one is t that comprehensive really.

A website with significantly less than the old one and many more pages that are impossible to get too from the home page.how did it cost THAT MUCH?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 29, 2014, 10:25:53 AM
I love the way every statement that comes from GW always contains the idea that they invented pretty much everything and are experts in everything else. Any real experts who disagree with them are wrong.

It reminds me of the old gag about the atheist who dies and has led such a model life, he finds himself at the gates of heaven. St Peter looks a little embarrassed and says, "Look, I know you're not religious, but you now have to choose what section to spend eternity in."

The man is given a tour of heaven - in one beautiful section are the Muslims, in another the Christians, in yet another the Jews. Each zone is wonderful to look at and filled with music, the people inside happy and smiling.

Then they reach an enormous concrete wall reaching up as high as he can see. In every language known to mankind are notices urging absolute silence. The man turns to St Peter with a puzzled expression.

St Peter beckons him closer and mutters in a tiny whisper, "Sshhhh, that's the Catholics, they have to think they're the only ones here."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 29, 2014, 10:34:32 AM
Quote from: Cubs on July 29, 2014, 10:25:53 AM
I love the way every statement that comes from GW always contains the idea that they invented pretty much everything and are experts in everything else. Any real experts who disagree with them are wrong.

It reminds me of the old gag about the atheist who dies and has led such a model life, he finds himself at the gates of heaven. St Peter looks a little embarrassed and says, "Look, I know you're not religious, but you now have to choose what section to spend eternity in."

The man is given a tour of heaven - in one beautiful section are the Muslims, in another the Christians, in yet another the Jews. Each zone is wonderful to look at and filled with music, the people inside happy and smiling.

Then they reach an enormous concrete wall reaching up as high as he can see. In every language known to mankind are notices urging absolute silence. The man turns to St Peter with a puzzled expression.

St Peter beckons him closer and mutters in a tiny whisper, "Sshhhh, that's the Catholics, they have to think they're the only ones here."


hello there joke, consider yourself stolen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: redeaston on July 29, 2014, 11:14:40 AM
The preamble just seems really unprofessional to me. Kind of reads to me as basically "Go away I know best". Unfortunately the numbers prove they don't.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 29, 2014, 11:26:02 AM
Quote from: redeaston on July 29, 2014, 11:14:40 AM
The preamble just seems really unprofessional to me. Kind of reads to me as basically "Go away I know best". Unfortunately the numbers prove they don't.

Well the numbers prove that they are still turning a profit.we don't know if their costs have gone up recently, what with the godly levels of website money and increased investment in plastic over resin.they didn't make as much as last year or the year before, but i don't could 12 million profit as any kind of loss.still very much in the black.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 29, 2014, 12:17:33 PM
Grab as much as they can before going bust?

Seems like that has been the mantra for several years now and surprisingly (for them as well possibly) they're still here  o_o

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on July 29, 2014, 02:53:40 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 29, 2014, 10:34:32 AM
hello there joke, consider yourself stolen.

Also stolen, well borrowed :) Great joke and does sound a lot like games workshop haha  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on July 29, 2014, 06:16:05 PM
(http://cdn.meme.li/instances/500x/53075647.jpg)
[/quote]
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 29, 2014, 06:19:20 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 29, 2014, 10:25:53 AM
I love the way every statement that comes from GW always contains the idea that they invented pretty much everything and are experts in everything else. Any real experts who disagree with them are wrong.

That reminds me of this section from the speech:

Quote
"Our market is a niche market made up of people who want to collect our miniatures. They tend to be male, middle-class, discerning teenagers and adults. We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants. These things are otiose in a niche."

"What will not change is the eternal desire for some always to want yet more of the small, jewel-like objects of magic and wonder that we call Citadel miniatures."

Who needs customer feedback?! The all-seeing, all-knowing GW scoffs at you!

Seriously, the blithering idiocy in those two passages is staggering..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 29, 2014, 10:15:01 PM
That last quote really is a rofl moment  lol

Sublime ignorance to the point of perfection  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on July 29, 2014, 10:55:24 PM
Well it seems this is not a spoof. Truly some strange stuff in there.

I will get working on my letter to the board. I have so many ideas for what I will do when I am CEO
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on July 30, 2014, 12:48:39 AM
holy... looks like there is no Light at the End of the Tunnel when reading Statements like these:

Quote: 
it will just mean that we can cut yet more cost out of the supply chain and be making good margins selling Citadel 3-D printers.

best Part:

"I said, ‘we recruit for attitude and not for skill’. It is what makes us great"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on July 30, 2014, 12:59:38 AM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on July 30, 2014, 12:48:39 AM
holy... looks like there is no Light at the End of the Tunnel when reading Statements like these:

Quote: 
it will just mean that we can cut yet more cost out of the supply chain and be making good margins selling Citadel 3-D printers.

best Part:

"I said, ‘we recruit for attitude and not for skill’. It is what makes us great"


This just makes me sad tbh, looks like this titantic is still being steered right towards the iceberg.  :/

Happy to have all my old stuff which continues to give me a nostalgic buzz every time i pick it up . Here's to past glories.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 30, 2014, 02:44:44 AM
Quote from: Scurv on July 30, 2014, 12:29:46 AM
Thats a screamingly funny excerpt. Gosh, what can anyone even say to such statement makers that will get through their reality barriers?

Captain our logic bombs are just bouncing off the scaly hide of GW's monstrous ego like ping pong balls!

Apparently, another leak revealed a picture of the incoming replacement CEO:

(http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/anchorman.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on July 30, 2014, 10:00:55 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 29, 2014, 07:22:22 AM
I'm still boggling over the £4 million they paid for a website redo. That's just insanity.
Multi-lingual and with an open engine to add content that isn't based on any vialable platform? Yes, I can see that it would cost that amount. It will take a large amount of man hours to fulfil this project.
I'm more surprised to see that people still believe one can get a functioning and alright looking website for 100 quid since it's the neighbourhood boy doing those www's and codez...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 30, 2014, 10:03:04 AM
Quote from: Silversixx on July 30, 2014, 10:00:55 AM
Multi-lingual and with an open engine to add content that isn't based on any vialable platform? Yes, I can see that it would cost that amount. It will take a large amount of man hours to fulfil this project.
I'm more surprised to see that people still believe one can get a functioning and alright looking website for 100 quid since it's the neighbourhood boy doing those www's and codez...

Oh no, i know they cost alot, but 4 MILLION. 400 thousand ,1 million, maybe, but 4? really?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Centaur_Seducer on July 30, 2014, 12:11:12 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 30, 2014, 10:03:04 AM
Oh no, i know they cost alot, but 4 MILLION. 400 thousand ,1 million, maybe, but 4? really?
It's all based on what the website offers. While it might just be a very heavy homepage for us (to be honest, the content is really good), it might also double or triple for the various shops, resellers and inhouse-thingies.
The point is, a website is as expensive as a rope is long. And apparently, who ever managed to sell a 4 million quid redo is a rather good account manager...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 30, 2014, 07:15:05 PM
Regarding the website:

We ourselves see lots of wargaming websites with multiple languages, a catalogue and webstore. And there is NO WAY that Tales of War or Warlord Games or whoever else paid four million quid for their portals. Even Privateer Press doesn't have money like that. In all likelihood the nicer ones costs in the high tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands.

HOW-SO-EVER, in GW's defence, yesterday a friend of mine let me know that the four million pound price tag includes a physical server farm and maintenance for that. Apparently GW wants to keep everything in-house.

So with that in mind, I think the cost may be a little less ludicrous. Whether the extravagance of maintaining your own dedicated IT space is worth it or not to a company which was aggressively cutting costs is another question entirely. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 30, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
Quote from: Scurv on July 30, 2014, 10:59:58 AM
He looks so different without his beret.

I was hoping someone would pick up on that.

 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 30, 2014, 07:34:55 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 30, 2014, 07:15:05 PM
Regarding the website:

We ourselves see lots of wargaming websites with multiple languages, a catalogue and webstore. And there is NO WAY that Tales of War or Warlord Games or whoever else paid four million quid for their portals. Even Privateer Press doesn't have money like that. In all likelihood the nicer ones costs in the high tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands.

HOW-SO-EVER, in GW's defence, yesterday a friend of mine let me know that the four million pound price tag includes a physical server farm and maintenance for that. Apparently GW wants to keep everything in-house.

So with that in mind, I think the cost may be a little less ludicrous. Whether the extravagance of maintaining your own dedicated IT space is worth it or not to a company which was aggressively cutting costs is another question entirely. 

See NOW it makes more sense. i wonder if they cool the servers with the tears of sisters players?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on July 30, 2014, 07:49:47 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 30, 2014, 07:16:27 PM
I was hoping someone would pick up on that.

 ;)

i wasn't completely sure,as Scurv said he really looks different in Civilian Clothes  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 30, 2014, 07:55:29 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 30, 2014, 07:34:55 PM
See NOW it makes more sense. i wonder if they cool the servers with the tears of sisters players?

I'll start bottling my tears then...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 30, 2014, 08:00:26 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on July 30, 2014, 07:55:29 PM
I'll start bottling my tears then...

Nahh, just wait for the black ships to come and sit you before the golden serve throne they'll suck the hope from you to keep the webstore running .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on July 30, 2014, 08:04:00 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 30, 2014, 07:34:55 PM
See NOW it makes more sense. i wonder if they cool the servers with the tears of sisters players?
My tears are particularly icy. But I'm so over them now.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to my room to listen to 'I Will Survive' on repeat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on July 30, 2014, 08:59:42 PM
Maybe the tears are what is so expensive.

Reading that statement from GW just sounds like they have their fingers in their ears screaming lalalala I can't hear you. It genuinly sounds like it's written by a child.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 31, 2014, 12:42:11 AM
Quote from: Scurv on July 30, 2014, 10:59:58 AM
He looks so different without his beret.

Oh, now I recognise him.

I had a poster of him in uni and everything.  ;D

Half-year report: apparently it's surprised even the business-savvy people on some sites who predicted a bad report and a death spiral. Looks like it's pretty much set that, unless they have a major shakeup (unlikely with Chairman Kirby still hovering) or a buyout that doesn't just drain them of IP and drop the body, GW won't be here in another couple of years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 31, 2014, 03:33:10 AM
Quote from: Silversixx on July 30, 2014, 10:00:55 AM
Multi-lingual and with an open engine to add content that isn't based on any vialable platform? Yes, I can see that it would cost that amount.

Well maybe if the people buying the website are total idiots. Even a quarter of that price is ridiculous.

The site is made with a set of tools provided by a company called Sensa which makes the prices even more insane since its not like it is custom code.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 31, 2014, 11:56:41 AM
Well done to the team that sold them something for 4 million squids that really wasn't worth that much.

More fool them for paying that much.

The "message" of course is just what they want others to believe.

The usual cost cut to drive margin up on falling profit and sales.

No doubt at some point we will see them retreating further from the high street, and probably turning their website into their only shop front....

It will of course be the failure of the one man shop "teams", and not the companies fault.

Still the rounds of cost cutting, redundancy and cheap hiring (we don't look at CVs) will certainly boost the bottom line again for several more years to come.

I am just glad there are so many other sources of good miniatures.

One day, some day, all their miniatures will be OOP? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Alien Dave on July 31, 2014, 12:08:43 PM
RE: cost of their website re-vamp:  As an old boss of mine used to say:  "The right price is the price the customer is willing to pay".  He'd then usually rant about why his predecessor had signed a contract with a supplier for services worth a fraction of what he was now committed to pay for...   lol

Reading the CEO's preamble, it sounds like the blurb found in their rules and magazines.  Which is OK if your shareholders are the same 14 year olds your customer base is.  If I was a shareholder, I'd be looking to off-load my shares right about now.

Dave W
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 31, 2014, 01:30:09 PM
Quote from: Alien Dave on July 31, 2014, 12:08:43 PM
Which is OK if your shareholders are the same 14 year olds your customer base is. 

That's crazy talk man, didn't you read that their customer base is wealthy middle-aged men? They know this through the ouija board.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Alien Dave on July 31, 2014, 02:13:07 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 31, 2014, 01:30:09 PM
That's crazy talk man, didn't you read that their customer base is wealthy middle-aged men? They know this through the ouija board.

That post needs a 'like' button!  :)
Well, I'm middle aged, and I thought I was relatively wealthy, but obviously not as I haven't been able to afford GW kit for many a moon now!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on August 01, 2014, 02:13:29 PM
I have to say, although I grossly overpaid for it, the new plastic scraper is pretty brilliant...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 01, 2014, 02:46:04 PM
Lol! My sentiments precisely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 01, 2014, 02:56:11 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on August 01, 2014, 02:13:29 PM
I have to say, although I grossly overpaid for it, the new plastic scraper is pretty brilliant...

While we may disagree with the aesthetic at times (OK, often), no-one is denying that they make good stuff.  I love their new paint range.

But the prices are at the heart of the problem...

Consider how much new stuff they've produced in the last 18 months, all the new rules and datasheets, and they way they've monetised everything from stats to painting guides (you know - what used to be in White Dwarf) just to stand still in sales terms.

The new website... keeps showing me different sections in different languages.  Right now it's showing me that I'm in the UK for delivery, costs are in pounds, and the White Dwarf section is in English.  All the Space-Wolfy bits are in Spanish...

The company I work for puts IT systems into hospitals to manage patient data and activity, and integrates them with clinical results systems and business-intelligence reporting/billing data warehouses.  While I can't divulge prices, £4 million would get you an awful lot more than what GW appears to have been delivered.  And we'd have migrated the old database too...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on August 01, 2014, 03:00:00 PM
£4M for  a massive internet and intranet project including hardware, with storefront with full control over front and back end isnt that bad...
And there would be a lot of internal cost in that as well, salaries etc etc....

If you want to look at wasted money of huge IT projects ask someone in the NHS... lol
It would make GW's expediture look like pocket change....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 01, 2014, 03:13:00 PM
Quote from: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on August 01, 2014, 03:00:00 PM
If you want to look at wasted money of huge IT projects ask someone in the NHS... lol
It would make GW's expediture look like pocket change....

Oh the stories I could tell you if I wasn't under NDA...  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on August 01, 2014, 04:38:04 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 31, 2014, 01:30:09 PM
That's crazy talk man, didn't you read that their customer base is wealthy middle-aged men? They know this through the ouija board.

I really still can't get my head around the idea that they don't do any data gathering on their audience. Its so bizarre a concept that I have to assume that he is talking out of his *ss.

There are even gaming websites that do occasional market surveys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 01, 2014, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on August 01, 2014, 04:38:04 PM
I really still can't get my head around the idea that they don't do any data gathering on their audience. Its so bizarre a concept that I have to assume that he is talking out of his *ss.

There are even gaming websites that do occasional market surveys.
Without customer data, he is talking straight out of his ass!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 01, 2014, 08:53:01 PM
But, but, but, they're little jewels that everybody knows and loves, each one crafted from the frozen tears of angels and then cast in a really shit resin/plastic mix  ::) lol

How long till they finally fold then? Three years, four?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 01, 2014, 09:25:38 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on August 01, 2014, 02:56:11 PM
While we may disagree with the aesthetic at times (OK, often), no-one is denying that they make good stuff.  I love their new paint range.

But the prices are at the heart of the problem...

Uh-huh!

Quote
Consider how much new stuff they've produced in the last 18 months, all the new rules and datasheets, and they way they've monetised everything from stats to painting guides (you know - what used to be in White Dwarf) just to stand still in sales terms.

To be fair you had to pay for White Dwarf too. :D But I hear ya. Crappy Tyranid and Ork codexes...es, with good downloadable 'dataslate' units released on the very same days, costing almost as much as the main £30 codex... that pissed off a lot of GW fanboys in itself. (now ex-GW fanboys)
A lot of people thought that sales from a new edition of 40K, new Space Marine codex, and imperial knights would turn around GW's numbers in this half-year report and shut the doomsayers up. They didn't. They shot their biggest guns to no great effect, and now they've just got pea-shooters and slingshots left. To state the obvious, it don't look good.

Quote from: jimbibbly on August 01, 2014, 08:53:01 PM
How long till they finally fold then? Three years, four?

Two or less, according to Wayshuba on Warseer and Dakkadakka. I forget exactly what his job is, but it involves monitoring the behaviour and health of businesses. He's been talking for a month or two about how he's seen all the classic warning signs of a death spiral before (drastic cost-cutting, desperately increasing rate of releases, etc.), that GW is showing them, that it'll take exceptional measures to pull them out of it now (not with Kirby and yes-men still pulling the strings) and that it won't be a slow dwindle to a 'more manageable' size of a business. It'll be quick, like TSR. Not with a whimper but a bang.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 01, 2014, 09:40:09 PM
It'll be interesting to see

I would assume that rights would be sold off? How about the moulds etc?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on August 01, 2014, 09:47:38 PM
There used to be a lot of free painting guides on their website a few years ago too- stuff useful for general painting and modelling, not just for GW stuff. They also used to have things like the space Marine chapter gallery- which I imagine inspired people to buy MORE stuff...

I don't want to see GW fold in all honesty, I would like it to 'get better'!

They have lots of great things going for them, they just need to realise what they are!! They really should set up an offshoot were you can get their old stuff- They could sell the new Skullz/Grimdark to the kids, and their 'vintage stuff' to us more ahem mature customers. Warhammer Vintage- they can have that for free!! :D

Oh and stop producing massive expensive shit too...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 01, 2014, 09:55:15 PM
Quote
It'll be interesting to see

Definitely interesting times. :)

Quote
I would assume that rights would be sold off? How about the moulds etc?

I don't have a baldy notion, and again I'd just be parroting what I've heard elsewhere. :) But I've heard some people hope that Hasbro rides in to save the day and jam Warhammer/40K under the WoTC label. Others aren't so sure since their RPG and CCG efforts have been more successful than their mini games. A couple wonder if Warlord or Mantic will try something, which doesn't seem altogether likely. A lot think that a buyer will just gut the IP for making video games, or think it'll just die off altogether.

Quote
There used to be a lot of free painting guides on their website a few years ago too- stuff useful for general painting and modelling, not just for GW stuff. They also used to have things like the space Marine chapter gallery- which I imagine inspired people to buy MORE stuff...

I don't want to see GW fold in all honesty, I would like it to 'get better'!

Me too, TBH. I wouldn't mind them being the big fish in the wargaming pond if their games, prices, practises, website changes etc. still 'deserved' it.

These days their problems with all that can be almost completely explained in four quotes from the top:

They never do any marketing or market research. They don't need to.

Their customers are sheep.

Their customers will buy anything they release.

The GW hobby is buying GW products.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 01, 2014, 10:47:16 PM
Hasbro would certainly seem to me to make it more mainstream and could possibly be a fresh influx of new gamers to the 'normal' hobby of wargaming (the GW Hobby... Which tool came up with that idea  ::) ).

None of the other companies would have enough to buy, surely?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on August 01, 2014, 10:52:49 PM
Maybe we can buy it and turn it into a co-op!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 01, 2014, 11:20:58 PM
apparently the telegraph ran an article on games workshop financial reports and the attitude problem of the hgher ups apparent in the writing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 01, 2014, 11:27:44 PM
If it goes down I imagine there will be sharks in the water to snap up chunks here and there. A big player might take WHFB and WH40K perhaps, with all the peripheries being nibbled away by others.

If rumours are to be believed (are they ever?) Warlord isn't cash rich enough to be buying up anything else major and are having enough trouble keeping their heads above water after having bought up a lot of other small companies and spent a fortune on making a range of models and rulebooks, so it'll be a while before those investments make back the expense.

Perhaps some of the sculptors could buy back the licence for some of their own works - the Perry's spring to mind of course - and the GW real estate and various bit of hardware will attract plenty of buyers, not necessarily from inside the industry.

Honestly, I do think GW need to seriously think about getting rid of all their GW stores and running it as an internet-only company with independent stores carrying their lines in the high street. It's where they came from originally. Whenever I've asked in their stores why the products are so expensive they say it's because they have to support the stores. WTF?! Shouldn't the stores be supporting the business? That must surely have rung some alarm bells before now.

Cut it back to what makes money - directly and indirectly - and get rid of what you don't need. You can still keep the clubs running and still keep the hobby alive, by supporting your local independent stores and their own clubs. Try relying on the superiority of your product to sell the models, not a writ or a court-order to stop people playing the games with 'unauthorised' toys.

This turned into a rant didn't it? I'm seeing that now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 01, 2014, 11:49:01 PM
Lower prices. Bring back metal (or use a decent resin at least!). Return the aesthetics to earlier days (pre-big silly toys). Tighten the fluff again - the "anything goes" approach hasn't turned out to sell more models, so stop de-valueing the IP by breaking its own internal consistencies!

That'd do it for me!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Damas on August 02, 2014, 06:34:47 AM
I hope the IP gets bought up by Disney so that:

a) Disney can finally do what Lucas has ignored for years and produce 28mm stormtroopers en masse (hur hur hur)

b) Turn all the Sisters of Battle and gender confused Dark Elves/Eldar into Disney Princesses (Mwahaha)

 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 02, 2014, 07:15:45 AM
Quote from: Cubs on August 01, 2014, 11:27:44 PM
If it goes down I imagine there will be sharks in the water to snap up chunks here and there. A big player might take WHFB and WH40K perhaps, with all the peripheries being nibbled away by others.

If rumours are to be believed (are they ever?) Warlord isn't cash rich enough to be buying up anything else major and are having enough trouble keeping their heads above water after having bought up a lot of other small companies and spent a fortune on making a range of models and rulebooks, so it'll be a while before those investments make back the expense.

Perhaps some of the sculptors could buy back the licence for some of their own works - the Perry's spring to mind of course - and the GW real estate and various bit of hardware will attract plenty of buyers, not necessarily from inside the industry.

Honestly, I do think GW need to seriously think about getting rid of all their GW stores and running it as an internet-only company with independent stores carrying their lines in the high street. It's where they came from originally. Whenever I've asked in their stores why the products are so expensive they say it's because they have to support the stores. WTF?! Shouldn't the stores be supporting the business? That must surely have rung some alarm bells before now.

Cut it back to what makes money - directly and indirectly - and get rid of what you don't need. You can still keep the clubs running and still keep the hobby alive, by supporting your local independent stores and their own clubs. Try relying on the superiority of your product to sell the models, not a writ or a court-order to stop people playing the games with 'unauthorised' toys.

This turned into a rant didn't it? I'm seeing that now.

Yep. getting rid of stores and such could be a good start. Might bridge that northern southern price difference as well. Apparently that is because they need to pay to keep stock in warehouses or some such thing. I'd happily (in the past) buy from the UK and pay postage rather than buy from inflated south prices.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 02, 2014, 07:17:17 AM
I can see the tournament games with the original Disney characters now...  o_o

Mickey, with a WS of 9 will take his deamon sword of +3 and attacks Goofy who has a WS of 7 but gets help from a shield of everlight conferring a +5 bonus or some shit like that.

Actually, that might be quite an interesting venture...

 lol

I do agree about the independent shops though because if they would only see that helping to support the hobby as a whole it would do them good in the long run  :?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 02, 2014, 08:36:13 AM
All I'm hoping for the future is that Warhammer, 40k, but especially, especially the Specialist Games will be revived and developed into sensible, enjoyable rulesets, accompanied by a good quality and stylish (aka less overwrought and skull/toiletpaper-fetishistic) range of miniatures by a company that honestly cares for the games and setting and has a good contact with their customer base. For me, this needn't necessarily be GW...

(Mental aside, if GW are making a point of sueing everyone who damages their IP, when will they begin autolitigation? Seeing how they are molesting their own settings to enable dodgy sales-driven design and tacky gimmicks... Just saw the new Space Wolf Santa sleigh, am a bit baffled.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 02, 2014, 08:42:07 AM
Quote from: Gibby on August 01, 2014, 11:49:01 PM
Lower prices. Bring back metal (or use a decent resin at least!). Return the aesthetics to earlier days (pre-big silly toys). Tighten the fluff again - the "anything goes" approach hasn't turned out to sell more models, so stop de-valueing the IP by breaking its own internal consistencies!

That'd do it for me!
Very well said, I could not have said it better myself :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 02, 2014, 08:44:15 AM
Not a fan of the new space wolf dreadnought character ether, murderclaw or something like that. It has a head.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on August 02, 2014, 09:11:11 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 02, 2014, 08:44:15 AM
Not a fan of the new space wolf dreadnought character ether, murderclaw or something like that. It has a head.


Ha! I just saw the new wolf-driven electro chariot space wolf lord character heman.


I haven't been following the GW factory lately but it seems they're still heading the same direction as when I left.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 02, 2014, 09:48:10 AM
Murder Claw lol!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on August 02, 2014, 10:46:18 AM
I will be sad to see GW struggle. On their current course the iceberg is dead ahead and plain to see, but the captain continues to ignore and steer the same course. It's sad.

I know it's fashionable to slag them off, and they have put out some real turkeys recently. But, I do think that the quality of their plastic and metal products is second to none. And when you compare them to other sellers, their prices are not always as insane as the doomsayers speak. I have spent the last couple of years making a transition from GW-only to the whole hobby spectrum, and it's been an eye-opener. While I now enjoy playing historical games, I do struggle to find models that are of a similar quality to GW, in fact they just don't exist. Many of the historical product available is unchanged for 10, 15 even more years. It's stuck in a warp, though the owners of the companies are happy to move along on the coat tails of big fish and pump up their prices.

The jewels in my collection are nearly all GW figures, my growing historical collection sometimes come close to what GW did 15 years ago, but they are streets behind in sculpt and casting quality. Price wise, GW range from about £1.50 per figure upward, if you pay full price, while historicals are about the same or higher, for lesser quality product in my eyes.

Grim dark times ahead. In the future, their is only....bankruptcy? Buyout? Re-organisation?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 02, 2014, 12:00:30 PM
Quote from: Nord on August 02, 2014, 10:46:18 AM
I know it's fashionable to slag them off, and they have put out some real turkeys recently. But, I do think that the quality of their plastic and metal products is second to none. And when you compare them to other sellers, their prices are not always as insane as the doomsayers speak. I have spent the last couple of years making a transition from GW-only to the whole hobby spectrum, and it's been an eye-opener. While I now enjoy playing historical games, I do struggle to find models that are of a similar quality to GW, in fact they just don't exist. Many of the historical product available is unchanged for 10, 15 even more years. It's stuck in a warp, though the owners of the companies are happy to move along on the coat tails of big fish and pump up their prices.

You seem to be comparing GW plastics with historical metals.

De gustibus and all, but have you looked at recent historical plastics from Perry, Gripping Beast and Warlord/Victrix (plus others)?  The most recent Perry sets in their Wars of the Roses range are much, much better than GW's Empire or Brettonian range, and you get 40 or more in a box compared to GW's 10 for a similar price.  Check out the plastic army deals on the Perry Miniatures and Warlord Games (and for WWII models, Wargames Factory) websites.

GW has plenty of high-quality opposition these days, at prices that make GW look silly.  And GW retain a lot of really old models at those daft prices.  Twenty Dreamforge Eisenkern for £26, or twenty GW Cadians (more than ten years old) for £36?

On the fantasy side, Mantic produce a range of very nice plastic undead  that I find almost as detailed as the GW models but certainly more characterful (IMHO) and half the price.  Wargames Factory produce some very nice "Jason and the Argonauts" style skeletons for a third the price of GW's equivalent models.  The other fantasy ranges from these companies I would class as inferior (others may disagree), but again vastly cheaper than GW.

I agree that GW's most recent plastics still lead the field, but the opposition is snapping at their heels, and beats them hands down for value for money.

As for character models, I'd say that GW are no better than many of their competitors - Hasslefree, Reaper, Malifaux, Warmachine/Hordes, you name all the boutique lines that now do small ranges of beautiful models - and are significantly more expensive.  Many of the models I'm proudest of are from those other companies.

GW do good vehicles and monsters, although the monsters in Reaper's Bones plastic range re easily as good and a fraction the cost.  

I want to love GW (I do like their paints), but they're just too expensive - even with a decent disposable income, I can't justify buying them to myself, or spending several hundred pounds for an army.  There are reasonably priced sets I have happily bought - the Tau Pathfinder team is a skirmish force in a box, and has a good range of weapons options.  But the old adage that GW has cheap models but expensive armies is no longer true.  They're both expensive now...

All very much IMHO, of course :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 02, 2014, 12:02:48 PM
Quote from: Damas on August 02, 2014, 06:34:47 AM
I hope the IP gets bought up by Disney so that:

a) Disney can finally do what Lucas has ignored for years and produce 28mm stormtroopers en masse (hur hur hur)

b) Turn all the Sisters of Battle and gender confused Dark Elves/Eldar into Disney Princesses (Mwahaha)

 :D


You joke , but look at what Disney has done with marvel. I saw guardians of the galaxy on Thursday and it was one of the best movies I've seen in a while, and whilst warhammer is different, the point remains that Disney know how to give fans what they want and run a business.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 02, 2014, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 02, 2014, 12:02:48 PM

You home, but look at what Disney has done with marvel. I saw guardians of the galaxy on Thursday and it was one of the best movies I've seen in a while, and whilst warhammer is different, the point remains that Disney know how to give fans what they want and run a business.

Let's see that happen with Star Wars then...

Oops, too late...

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 02, 2014, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 02, 2014, 12:05:40 PM
Let's see that happen with Star Wars then...

Oops, too late...

cheers

James

What are you talking about?  the movie is no where near finished and all rumours have to be taken with a create of salt. They've denounced the extended universe (which was crap)  and ate focusing on the classic the films to expand . Yes they have crappy games and people in costumes at Disney land, but games workshop has made some appalling games of 40k (chess regicide anyone? Or the now abandoned warhammer online?) Disney know their markets and what to target to who.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 02, 2014, 12:17:34 PM
I'm not getting into a lengthy debate about it as this isn't the thread, or indeed the forum for it. Suffice to say the canon has been removed as a reference and to my mind this is their biggest mistake.

Good for them if it succeeds  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on August 02, 2014, 12:25:02 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 02, 2014, 12:17:34 PM
I'm not getting into a lengthy debate about it as this isn't the thread, or indeed the forum for it. Suffice to say the canon has been removed as a reference and to my mind this is their biggest mistake.

Good for them if it succeeds  :)

cheers

James

I have to agree with Jim here, they seem to have decoupled from the thing that was their main attraction.

That said, GW does seem to be in poor shape overall.  Perhaps they're suffering the effects of 'peak oil' and now are on a long but slow decline.  They certainly have enough capital to stay going for a long time, but I guess not in the same direction they are headed.  What do they say about Pride and falls?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 02, 2014, 02:32:22 PM
Quote from: Dr. The Viking on August 02, 2014, 09:11:11 AM
Ha! I just saw the new wolf-driven electro chariot space wolf lord character heman.

I just saw pics of it.

GW are doomed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 02, 2014, 05:16:36 PM
I used to have a small Space Wolves army. I sold it, and for years I've regretted the decision. Then I saw the new releases and.... I no longer regret selling my Space Wolves. 
Once they used to be Viking/Northern Barbarian-themed Space Marines, now they're Space Marine themed Vikings/Northern Barbarians.
As the saying goes: "There are no Wolves on Fenris", the chapter was eradicated by the Squats, who then had bone-lengthening surgery and took their place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 02, 2014, 05:52:14 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 02, 2014, 02:32:22 PM
I just saw pics of it.

GW are doomed.

I have a hankering to buy one and paint the character red.  Then add another box of thunderwolves... and paint one with a red nose...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 02, 2014, 06:20:12 PM
It would make one heck of a mantlepiece decoration at Christmas time!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 02, 2014, 07:09:58 PM
 lol

Quote from: Modhail on August 02, 2014, 05:16:36 PM
Once they used to be Viking/Northern Barbarian-themed Space Marines, now they're Space Marine themed Vikings/Northern Barbarians.

I once joked that GW was going overboard with their space marine themes, and that Space Wolves would soon have powered armour made out of wolf bones, shooting little wolf-bullets out of their wolf-guns, and travelling the spaceways in their giant wolf-shaped ships. I'm a little disconcerted to find out it's starting to come true.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 02, 2014, 07:11:01 PM
Maybe they should just start making Christmas decorations......


And FIVE versions of codex space wolves????? Why???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 03, 2014, 12:52:12 AM
I really honestly thought the new wolf anti grav chariot was a photoshop job.
Also, where is all this grav tech coming from?  it used to be that land speeders were hard as balls for tech priests to build and the only jetbike outside of terra belonged to the dark angels. Now I'm meant to accept that the space wolves had some ancient relic anti grav wolf drawn toboggan kicking around for ten thousand years?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 03, 2014, 04:09:43 AM
So here's something (hopefully) interesting for you. One question that looms large is what role shareholders might take in any sort of desperate effort to turn GW around. Well, in looking to find out WHO GW's shareholders are, I found some interesting stuff.

First, let's look at an article from a while ago, in 2011:

http://theback40k.blogspot.ca/2011/05/who-owns-games-workshop.html

This was more or less what the shareholders list had looked like for the decade or so running up to 2011. There's a lot of interesting information about those various shareholders, including the fact that the largest shareholder for what had at that point been many many years was a very shady looking operation [jarring dramatic chord].

Next up, something a little more recent, from fall 2013, documenting some interesting moves throughout the first half of 2013:

http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2013/04/ownership-changes-at-games-workshop.html

There's loads of interesting investigation here too. Notice that Nomad's stake has been gradually declining (even between 2011 and 2013) and that the shares are being spun out to a wider number of firms with small chunks here and there. If you read these two links, you'll note that GW paid out rich but irregular cash dividends and it seems that a number of smaller investment firms (perhaps ones without the wherewithal to do a really full due diligence) had been waiting for an opportunity to get a piece of the action for some time.

Now look at the current investor page:

http://investor.games-workshop.com/shareholder-statistics/

There's nothing there but names and percentages, but there's still a big story in there. First off, you'll notice that Nomad - the largest shareholder as recently as 2013 - has entirely dropped GW. Second, you'll note that almost nobody owns very much and that the second-largest shareholder is now Tom Kirby! (who's 6.7% share has not changed in any way - it's everyone else's holdings which have fragmented).

To me this looks more and more like small-time suckers not doing their research, rather than an imminent buyout or activist investor. There's no one at the wheel, folks!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 03, 2014, 08:18:37 AM
Let's all club together and get the biggest share percentage then  ;D

We'll save the company and all become millionaires  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 03, 2014, 09:58:35 AM
It's a crying shame if that chariot is real and not a joke of some kind!  I wouldn't like to see the space wolf's brought down like that, they used to be my army if choice!! >:(

 I can't seem to find it on the GW site, does anyone have a link?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 03, 2014, 10:01:59 AM
Google image search is how I found it and I think the image was from Bell of Lost Whatsits  :?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 03, 2014, 10:14:49 AM
Cheers Jim!

All I can say is woof! That's bad! There's something 'off' about the Login Grimnar sculpt too!! :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 03, 2014, 08:48:09 PM
@Andym

- I think this (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Stormfang-Gunship) is the chariot you seek. It looks more like a WW2 LCV to me, but still crap. A snip at £49.00 o_o - and a squadron of two is also available for only £98.00, saving you the princely sum of £0.00 ::)

Presumably its use is explained in the limited edition codex (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Space-Wolves-Wolf-Guard-Edition-EN), yours for a mere £150.00 :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 03, 2014, 08:57:10 PM
Thanks Zemjw, but I think that's the new aerodynamic box that's the Stormraven or something! Jim right mate, if you type bell of lost souls' into Google and look at the Space Wolf post it's definitely a floaty chariot thingy for Login Grimnar!  :'( :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on August 03, 2014, 08:58:40 PM
Well, never liked those hairy, unwashed mutants. Becoming another toy for recent GW designers to play with is just what they deserve. >:D


All is dust.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 03, 2014, 09:09:26 PM
Second try - do you mean this (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eN7P4V2DLRE/U9wd9KSGkUI/AAAAAAAAg14/Fh6EgRbGNFM/s1600/logan-chariot.jpg). There's a better ??? picture on Golden Throne (http://www.golden-throne.com/?p=1504)

I *really* hope that's a joke, as otherwise the shark has been well and truly jumped.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 03, 2014, 09:40:17 PM
That's the chappie!

It's quite funny, in the link you posted, if you follow on to people's comments someone mentions it's a flying boat being pulled by 2 land based animals! Anyone spot the problem!! :o  :o :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 03, 2014, 09:57:19 PM
Quote from: Andym on August 03, 2014, 09:40:17 PM
Anyone spot the problem!! :o  :o :o

It's a load of bollocks?

 lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 03, 2014, 10:12:57 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 03, 2014, 09:57:19 PM
It's a load of bollocks?

 lol

 lol

I think that 'chariot' thing is some some of conversion.

I mean, it cant be a real GW product, can it....?
Really.....?

Although looking at those awful Wolfie Dreads...... ::)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 03, 2014, 10:20:06 PM
Well, remember the flying chapels...?  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 03, 2014, 10:20:17 PM
Quote from: Mason on August 03, 2014, 10:12:57 PM
lol

I think that 'chariot' thing is some some of conversion.

I mean, it cant be a real GW product, can it....?
Really.....?

Although looking at those awful Wolfie Dreads...... ::)



Course it can, they're a pack of raving loons (at least the bloke in charge is)  o_o

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 03, 2014, 10:29:14 PM
Quote from: Argonor on August 03, 2014, 10:20:06 PM
Well, remember the flying chapels...?  ::)

I get your point, mate.... ::)

I have obviously been cured of GW stuff for too long now, as I forget some of the things that they have churned out in the last few years.
 o_o o_o



Quote from: jimbibbly on August 03, 2014, 10:20:17 PM
Course it can, they're a pack of raving loons (at least the bloke in charge is)  o_o

I am beginning to agree after a stroll around their website..... :o :o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Orc on August 03, 2014, 10:35:19 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 03, 2014, 12:52:12 AM
I really honestly thought the new wolf anti grav chariot was a photoshop job.
Also, where is all this grav tech coming from?  it used to be that land speeders were hard as balls for tech priests to build and the only jetbike outside of terra belonged to the dark angels. Now I'm meant to accept that the space wolves had some ancient relic anti grav wolf drawn toboggan kicking around for ten thousand years?

Ah, the new fluff. It 'used to be' (in 1987) that the Ravenwing flew 100 jetbikes. I have a list for them somewhere from WD (about number 95, if memory serves). I was a bit surprised when I came back to 40K around 4th edition to find that there was only one jetbike, the Ultramarines were a First-Founding Chapter and you couldn't give your sergeants Shuriken Pistols.

Plus ca change and all that...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 03, 2014, 10:45:06 PM
Quote from: Red Orc on August 03, 2014, 10:35:19 PM
Ah, the new fluff. It 'used to be' (in 1987) that the Ravenwing flew 100 jetbikes. I have a list for them somewhere from WD (about number 95, if memory serves). I was a bit surprised when I came back to 40K around 4th edition to find that there was only one jetbike, the Ultramarines were a First-Founding Chapter and you couldn't give your sergeants Shuriken Pistols.

Plus ca change and all that...  ;)

Even the Imperial Guard used to have jetbikes in the olden RT days!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 04, 2014, 01:17:47 AM
In one of the army lists in Book of the Astronomican you can upgrade an imperial army squad to all have powerboards.

Marine tactical squads could have jump or flight packs. heavy weapons and targeters frequently cane with anti grav suspensors. and then there is the grav attack vehicle of course... In fact half the Rogue trader universe was in danger of floating off if it wasnt nailed down (or attached to a convenient earthbound wolf).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on August 04, 2014, 07:37:37 AM
Quote
I have obviously been cured of GW stuff for too long now, as I forget some of the things that they have churned out in the last few years.

..and me, walked past the GW in Cribbs Causeway last week, looked in the window and walked away.......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 04, 2014, 07:50:01 AM
Jet bikes were some of the coolest imperial guard minis around.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on August 04, 2014, 11:07:14 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on August 04, 2014, 01:17:47 AM
In one of the army lists in Book of the Astronomican you can upgrade an imperial army squad to all have powerboards.
After rolling on the equipment tables, the commander of my Imperial Guard force turned up for battle with a powerboard, a supply of berserker drugs (frenzon?) and a flamethrower.

What a CO! What a guy!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 05, 2014, 12:37:43 AM
Sounds like a fun leader!
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on August 04, 2014, 11:07:14 PM
supply of berserker drugs (frenzon?)
Yes probably frenzon. There was also something called stimulants, but it acted more like smelling salts to revive people from strange gas effects and psychological states, rather than combat amphetamines.

btw, nonsensically it is techically possible for the Imperial Guard to ally with the Imperial Army (25% of the force could be allies from the Rogue Trader army list) and hence get a squad on powerboards that way. Trouble was the Astronomican seemed to go out of print quite soon after (presumably because of this kind of inconcsistencies) so probably not many people used such a force in games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 05, 2014, 12:57:01 AM
Quote from: Scurv on August 05, 2014, 12:53:23 AM


... bunch of unstable angry drug addicts dosed to the eyeballs and given really big and dangerous weapons. Especially if they are somewhat unpredictable and have potential to go and do their own thing despite your wishes.

Sounds like my D&D group.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on August 05, 2014, 01:23:16 AM
Battle Drugs were in ST too, is that an IP infringement?

(http://lcars.frontierfleet.com/images/6/6e/19b83a446122b47fa7e702088b6a4ebe.jpg)

and

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jpcGEpOf9XM/Tx-gPaqEECI/AAAAAAAAAE4/N3kqOJbrMPo/s1600/Q_21st_Soldier.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 05, 2014, 03:02:32 AM
Well, the US airforce is STILL having issues with pilots being given loads of speed, so there is for sure some currency there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 05, 2014, 08:39:35 AM
If the current chairman's preamble is anything to go by, GW's upper management has similar issues...  ;D lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 05, 2014, 08:50:07 AM
Quote from: Modhail on August 05, 2014, 08:39:35 AM
If the current chairman's preamble is anything to go by, GW's upper management has similar issues...  ;D lol

Blowing all the profits on warp dust?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 05, 2014, 02:21:35 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 04, 2014, 07:50:01 AM
Jet bikes were some of the coolest imperial guard minis around.

Plus they had slouch hats. Who doesn't like slouch hats?

If the floating-boat chariot has anti-grav capability, why doesn't it have any form of propulsion? Surely the whole point of anti-grav would be speed and the possibility of using it in any form of terrain .... and it is then tied to dogs. It's like something from Wacky Races, but much slower.

(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t121/ballsposse/Sporcle/WackyRaces.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 05, 2014, 02:28:18 PM
Careful Cubs, you might start giving GW designers ideas.... ;D


Come to think of it, number 10 looks a lot like the Ork Battlewagon kit in layout... :o
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3Uns5xZGKQo/Sj04vbj7aXI/AAAAAAAAAFE/U4Y4PWVeyak/s320/Deffrolla.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 05, 2014, 02:28:30 PM
Hey, those are cool!  lol

The whole idea of using animals for mounts/propulsion in a universe filled with automatic weapons and big portable guns is rather silly. They wouldn't even have lasted n the opening minutes of WWI.

But, it's the Space Wolves, so they've got to ride wolves. I am SO looking forward to the Imperial Fists  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 05, 2014, 03:07:08 PM
Quote from: Argonor on August 05, 2014, 02:28:30 PM
Hey, those are cool!  lol

The whole idea of using animals for mounts/propulsion in a universe filled with automatic weapons and big portable guns is rather silly. They wouldn't even have lasted n the opening minutes of WWI.

But, it's the Space Wolves, so they've got to ride wolves. I am SO looking forward to the Imperial Fists  ::)

Big men riding even bigger fists?
I think you need a credit card to get on websites like that....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 05, 2014, 04:20:02 PM
Quote from: Modhail on August 05, 2014, 02:28:18 PM
Careful Cubs, you might start giving GW designers ideas.... ;D


Come to think of it, number 10 looks a lot like the Ork Battlewagon kit in layout... :o
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3Uns5xZGKQo/Sj04vbj7aXI/AAAAAAAAAFE/U4Y4PWVeyak/s320/Deffrolla.jpg)

That is so close, if Wacky Races had come out after that model, I'm pretty sure GW would've been all over their ass for IP infringement!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 05, 2014, 04:38:35 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 05, 2014, 03:07:08 PM
Big men riding even bigger fists?
I think you need a credit card to get on websites like that....

So, I don't need (an even bigger) credit card for buying Imperial Fists?  lol

Jokes aside, I really think GW has reached another peak of stupidity with the SW designs (and miniature over-the-top design overall), the price of their new un-painted vac-formed 'table', and their pricing generically speaking.

It's a shame, really. If they'd put the same amount of fervour into making better games as defending their IP (did everyone know, that the Danish translation of orc has been ork in LotR since the mid-70's), and designing ever more detailed miniatures, and keeping their prices at a reasonable level, they would probably have thrived and provided the gaming world with useable stuff for decades to come. I really don't see that happening now (and I don't think that's been the case for the last decade and half or so).

Funny thing is, I've been ridiculed over and over again (even on this forum) when I stated that the continuous price sky-rocketing would have to spell doom for the company at some point - according to every economics theory I've been taught at uni.

I'm pretty sure that the Warhammer and W40K franchises will be bought and continued if GW folds, but what they'll develop into... well, my 8 year old daughter's guess is as good as mine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 05, 2014, 05:04:46 PM
Quote from: Argonor on August 05, 2014, 04:38:35 PM
I'm pretty sure that the Warhammer and W40K franchises will be bought and continued if GW folds, but what they'll develop into... well, my 8 year old daughter's guess is as good as mine.

So, what does she think?   ;)


On a more serious note, GW's design has indeed become overdone and ridiculous to the point of idiocy. Even more so with their background setting, it's all hyperbole and superlatives for their own sake (and the sake of sales).... And I find, that despite my long appreciation for their visual style and their elaborate background, it's pushing me away. I'll play the version of their setting I prefer, and they can do whatever they like with theirs. My 40K and their 40K have become two entirely different things.


P.S. Sudden thought: What ever happened to Warhammer Fantasy? When did that become the second red-headed stepchild? GW seems to be focussing on 40K almost completely this year.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 06, 2014, 01:29:41 AM
Quote from: Scurv on August 06, 2014, 01:09:44 AM
I saw lots of new GW stuff recently and lots of it looked like transformer toys on the tabletop. Not taking the piss but being serious. They were so big they became very toy like. That being said the plague flies or what ever they are called were stunning. More of that and less voltron I says.

Totally agree. Those Plague Flies ar some of the best miniatures they've produced in years. The plastic plaguebearers aren't bad either. But unfortunately they are in the minority. Some of the worst miniatures I've ever seen have come out of GW in the last year or so. Those massive space marine terminator things, that massive khorne thing (lord of skulls  lol), Tau transformer toys (Riptide?), Chaos Marine Obliterators/Mutilators, those Imperial Guard stormtrooper guys (that are so bulky they make space marines look like 16 year old girls), Dark Angels flying church/DJ booth and now the new Space Wolf release hammering the final nail into a marine chapter I used to quite like when I was younger.
Makes me really sad to be honest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 06, 2014, 04:31:28 AM
Quote from: Diakon on August 06, 2014, 01:29:41 AM
Dark Angels flying church/DJ booth .

A foam Mickey Mouse antenna topper head and Brother-DJ Deadmau5 will be party-rockin' the battle barge until the Emperor wakes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 06, 2014, 04:37:30 AM
Completely missed the church of doom so had to google it. Then checked the GW website Love the description:

Quote
Of all the archaic relics deployed in the field of battle by the Unforgiven, the Darkshroud is perhaps the strangest. Those who have witnessed it...are disturbed forever more.

The bottom half of it is quite cool though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 06, 2014, 07:00:26 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 05, 2014, 03:07:08 PM
Big men riding even bigger fists?
I think you need a credit card to get on websites like that....

The Danish 'allthingsGWforum' is called powerfist.dk. And let's just say you only make the mistake of going to powerfist.com once!! :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 06, 2014, 07:16:02 AM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on August 07, 2014, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: Modhail on August 05, 2014, 05:04:46 PM

P.S. Sudden thought: What ever happened to Warhammer Fantasy? When did that become the second red-headed stepchild? GW seems to be focussing on 40K almost completely this year.

8th edition slowly deflated and the sales of a new edition ain't gonna be strong enough to bump GW's financial year, so its been all 40K as a result.

Shame, as WFB is probably my preferred of the two, even though I gave up playing it after a year or so of 8th "throw 6 dice at a spell" gaming.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 07, 2014, 10:35:03 AM
Quote from: grant on August 06, 2014, 04:31:28 AM
A foam Mickey Mouse antenna topper head and Brother-DJ Deadmau5 will be party-rockin' the battle barge until the Emperor wakes.

There's a chap over on dakkadakka who made dubstep tau, with built in speakers on his tanks, worth a look.i think GW are taking design tips from him.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 07, 2014, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 05, 2014, 03:07:08 PM
Big men riding even bigger fists?
I think you need a credit card to get on websites like that....

Ah, I think you must mean the Angry Marines Chapter:

(http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics13/img492a3c3903dc8.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 07, 2014, 12:33:24 PM
That's all kinds of awesome  ;D ;D ;D

Almost on a par with Kitty Marines  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 07, 2014, 02:29:10 PM
So has Games Workshop died yet? I'm getting impatient and just want them to kick it. Kind of like that relative with a horrible disease that just keeps hanging on, and every Christmas you're just like, seriously? We have to put up with that another year? Man, just die already.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 07, 2014, 03:55:53 PM
Like Hyman Roth, they've been dying of the same heart attack for twenty years.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 07, 2014, 10:50:09 AM
Ah, I think you must mean the Angry Marines Chapter:

(http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics13/img492a3c3903dc8.jpg)

That's one of the new centurions, innit? Or is it a leak of a new special character: Manus Thunderfist, with his megafists and fistzerker rages...? ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 07, 2014, 03:59:51 PM
That's a sneak peak of the new Super-Unbound-Unleashed edition.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 07, 2014, 08:47:34 PM
It must be a new release from GW, you can see in the paintjob the sun is shining out of its a$$ much like all of their SM stuff  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 07, 2014, 09:04:31 PM
Quote from: grant on August 07, 2014, 02:29:10 PM
So has Games Workshop died yet? I'm getting impatient and just want them to kick it. Kind of like that relative with a horrible disease that just keeps hanging on, and every Christmas you're just like, seriously? We have to put up with that another year? Man, just die already.

There's a neighbour of ours who is housebound and when I moved in, I was told she had terminal cancer. That was 15 years ago. Now good on her and all for surviving, but since she's outlived three of our other neighbours in that time, just how terminal is it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 07, 2014, 09:35:58 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 07, 2014, 09:04:31 PM
There's a neighbour of ours who is housebound and when I moved in, I was told she had terminal cancer. That was 15 years ago. Now good on her and all for surviving, but since she's outlived three of our other neighbours in that time, just how terminal is it?

We're all terminal, just some more than others.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on August 07, 2014, 10:08:43 PM
The stats never lie. 1 in 1 people die.

:D

That's an awesome Fist Marine, a unit of em would be great ;) I imagine the ships and craft would resemble something like an Austin Powers spaceship. lol
Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 07, 2014, 10:11:59 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 07, 2014, 09:04:31 PM
There's a neighbour of ours who is housebound and when I moved in, I was told she had terminal cancer. That was 15 years ago. Now good on her and all for surviving, but since she's outlived three of our other neighbours in that time, just how terminal is it?

Makes you just want to call the mortician, tip him generously, and have her taken away. Taking up valuable space for those who are living!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 07, 2014, 10:21:00 PM
Quote from: grant on August 07, 2014, 10:11:59 PM
Makes you just want to call the mortician, tip him generously, and have her taken away. Taking up valuable space for those who are living!



Clear out the coffin dodgers, sell the house to a baby who will live happily until the gem in their hand turns red.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 07, 2014, 10:54:13 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on August 07, 2014, 10:08:43 PM
That's an awesome Fist Marine, a unit of em would be great ;) I imagine the ships and craft would resemble something like an Austin Powers spaceship. lol

The command squad, painted by MrChaos:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pnCYJevoNxI/Syn8in4NALI/AAAAAAAAACM/1P-JotrS3A4/s1600/AngryMarines.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pnCYJevoNxI/S4JuIgMpBTI/AAAAAAAAAHs/1LWxver_XYk/s1600/Untitled-1+copy.jpg)

The Dread:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pnCYJevoNxI/S92T3wMTWaI/AAAAAAAAALE/kOwyUC2ofys/s1600/IMG_2573.jpg)

And some WIP:

(Note the squaddie on the far right: he has a power folding chair).
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pnCYJevoNxI/S-6tzZB0AeI/AAAAAAAAAL0/pzZRqIpXXKo/s1600/IMG_2590.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pnCYJevoNxI/S3ANn1mk-QI/AAAAAAAAAFU/YXSGqUDMgIc/s400/IMG_2121.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cherno on August 07, 2014, 11:06:55 PM
Not enuff Bling Bling in this thread, so...

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y114/nyarlathotep667/209565165warhammer40000playa.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 07, 2014, 11:11:34 PM
(http://www.fu-manchu.com/morbidaj/spicoliscene3.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 07, 2014, 11:16:04 PM
Quote from: Scurv on August 07, 2014, 10:26:47 PM
if you were the new CEO of GW how would you 'fix' it.

How would you increase profit for the shareholders while keeping enough customers happy to stay afloat and grow.

Me first thing would be a line of pre paints or the use of different coloured plastics like the gundam kits. When kids are the age they get a GW big box for christmas the fun lasts until they try put paint on a figure and it all goes horribly wrong. I call it the airfix effect when things are much more fun before you start playing with them. Keep the kids who are getting started young, going for more than a month before its all declared too hard and put under the bed.

Second I would release 2 small box games a year. Use existing figures from the ranges for the minis components.

Third I would focus on winding back the force sizes in games. Its got to the point now where there are TOO many figures you need to have an army especially if people have transformers and voltrons on the table. 50 figs should be the size of the average army tops. People can actually finish an army then and will game it and stay interested.

4th I would start using the business model of 'quantity has a quality all of its own.' If you can make up the difference in a smaller price by moving a greater volume of product then do so for gods sake. Its now too expensive to buy other than second hand and with detol you can strip them back to bare plastic components as good as out the box no worries.

5th rationalise the fluff while at the same time making it lots looser.

6th loosen up on IP. Buy the competition like puppets war/kromlech to work for you. These guys are so into GW stuff they made a company making minis to compliment it and some of them a fantastic too. Its a big pool of talent to plunder.

7th Also on that note add minecraft/legos aspect to GW minis with a program called chapter master. With chapter master you choose from a pool of hundreds of parts to make your own personalised force leader which is 3d printed. Charge about the same you charge now for a force leader character but this way it becomes real value for money. The other upside is with a unique force leader it creates a deeper investment in the game by the player.

8th develop a strong partnership with a game company like sega who do good mass battle games (apart from rome II cough cough). These are hugely expensive and time consuming projects that eat money like a big boned lad goes through popcorn. Yet at the same time a franchise that is strong and has a good product can spin out millions/billions of dollars in profits. How much has the COD franchise made? Thats why you need a partnership to have the funds to truly fund a product that is a game changer like the total war series.

9th Kids cartoon show. Make it about orks, Battletech had one. offshore all the animation in korea to cut costs and get a damm good script writer. Put a cartoon show into a kids brain and you can sell that franchise forever more to them. Look at TMNT/transformers/voltron/thunderbirds. (my tribal nephew Finn had all the thunderbirds and the show was 10 times older than he was!)

10th stop being total dicks about lots of things. Having just watched a slew of 80's era high school movies I must state GW break the rule of school yard cool in those movies. Being cool is not saying you cant use other people figures, the rule of cool is to just act like why would they even want to but happily accept it. Image is everything, truth is what is popular at the time and social manipulation is an everyday job for many people. (go spend 2 weeks working in advertising and tell me it aint.) You wanna be the Jeff Spicoli of the minis world not Mr Hand.

(http://www.fu-manchu.com/morbidaj/spicolititle-new.jpg)

 



  

 


So become a mix of mantic, microsoft and airfix whilst maintaining the luxury product attitude of apple and the storylines of a 13 year old goths wet dreams?

I'm in, get this man an office and a coffee!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 07, 2014, 11:20:35 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 07, 2014, 11:16:04 PM
the luxury product attitude of apple

It's not an attitude - it's a lifestyle.

Mac since '93.  ;)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/LC520.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 08, 2014, 12:27:05 AM
The article "Freedom in an owned world" is back up on the net. I found it to be a very interesting read. It is a glimpse into GW in the 80s and 90s from the point of view of contract sci-fi authors.
http://www.bsfa.co.uk/www.vectormagazine.co.uk/article.asp%3FarticleID=42.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 08, 2014, 12:42:12 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 07, 2014, 10:54:13 PM

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pnCYJevoNxI/S3ANn1mk-QI/AAAAAAAAAFU/YXSGqUDMgIc/s400/IMG_2121.jpg)

 lol lol lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 08, 2014, 12:48:27 AM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 08, 2014, 12:42:12 AM
lol lol lol lol lol

Totally agree. Now that's angry!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 08, 2014, 02:02:28 AM
Yep, gotta love that pic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 08, 2014, 04:52:08 AM
I've seen the angry marines before, but not that one! Man is that ever awesome.

Here's one of the best:

(http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics14/img4d0263dc8cfa7.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 08, 2014, 07:22:10 AM
That man is a bonifide genius!! 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 08, 2014, 08:40:13 AM
Got to admit, one thing that I liked about the Angry Marines is that despite being obviously a jokey chapter, they do actually manage to capture a lot of the RT silliness that I think a lot of people here used to enjoy when playing GW games in their youth...

Another thing I liked about them, aside from the silly, was that they can be made from any old leftovers, can fit any Marine Codex or game edition, and can be used for different armies from game-to-games - all of which makes them quite economical. For example, if you want to play them as Chaos Space Marines, you can easily imagine a heavy metal inspired squad for Havocs/Noise Marines (and yes, I do remember the old Noise Marine with the guitar-gun). Play them as Blood Angels, and have fun strapping massive phallic rockets to their backs. Play them as Space Wolves, and have fun finding them suitably stupid mounts to ride (maybe walking sharks with laser beams on their heads?). Really, I think they are both a great homage and antidote to the "new GrimDark".

Also, not sure *who* came up with the chapter, but it has spawned lots of comic strips, fluff, a fan-Codex, and lots of people have clearly had a lot of fun making models too.

Maybe it will inspire folks here on LAF to join in and start a unit or two of Angry Marines?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 08, 2014, 03:22:51 PM
That whirlwind with the marines in the launchers is damn funny. That made my day :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 08, 2014, 03:35:58 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 08, 2014, 08:40:13 AM
Got to admit, one thing that I liked about the Angry Marines is that despite being obviously a jokey chapter, they do actually manage to capture a lot of the RT silliness that I think a lot of people here used to enjoy when playing GW games in their youth...

Another thing I liked about them, aside from the silly, was that they can be made from any old leftovers, can fit any Marine Codex or game edition, and can be used for different armies from game-to-games - all of which makes them quite economical. For example, if you want to play them as Chaos Space Marines, you can easily imagine a heavy metal inspired squad for Havocs/Noise Marines (and yes, I do remember the old Noise Marine with the guitar-gun). Play them as Blood Angels, and have fun strapping massive phallic rockets to their backs. Play them as Space Wolves, and have fun finding them suitably stupid mounts to ride (maybe walking sharks with laser beams on their heads?). Really, I think they are both a great homage and antidote to the "new GrimDark".

Also, not sure *who* came up with the chapter, but it has spawned lots of comic strips, fluff, a fan-Codex, and lots of people have clearly had a lot of fun making models too.

Maybe it will inspire folks here on LAF to join in and start a unit or two of Angry Marines?  ;)


like many of 40k meme's, you have 4Chan to thank.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Angry_Marines 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 09, 2014, 12:53:52 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Logan-Grimnar-on-Stormrider

Ahahahahaha!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on August 09, 2014, 12:57:57 PM
Ohh god thats awful.

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120101115_LoganStormrider01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 09, 2014, 01:00:12 PM
Floating chariots were a thing with the recent fantasy releases, I guess the idea stuck.  lol lol lol

Yeah this is terrible, it be silly if it was an ork in a squig drawn grav chariot, this is worse.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 09, 2014, 01:03:19 PM
Fluff aside, I kinda like that  :?

Needs about four more 'wolves' and proper reins (not the scaffolding bars that are on this one).

Ho hum  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 09, 2014, 01:16:05 PM
Momotaro's Mega-Santa idea would work well I think lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on August 09, 2014, 03:17:52 PM
Quote from: YPU on August 09, 2014, 01:00:12 PM
Floating chariots were a thing with the recent fantasy releases, I guess the idea stuck.  lol lol lol

Yeah this is terrible, it be silly if it was an ork in a squig drawn grav chariot, this is worse.

Silly is kind of what the Orcs do though. If an Orc did it then it would seem firmly tongue in cheek.m
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 09, 2014, 03:34:56 PM
Quote from: carlos13th on August 09, 2014, 03:17:52 PM
Silly is kind of what the Orcs do though. If an Orc did it then it would seem firmly tongue in cheek.m

An RT ork sled pulled by cyboars is a great idea  :D

Needs to be red though  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 09, 2014, 03:55:06 PM
Quote from: Scurv on August 07, 2014, 10:26:47 PM
Being cool is not saying you cant use other people figures, the rule of cool is to just act like why would they even want to but happily accept it. Image is everything, truth is what is popular at the time and social manipulation is an everyday job for many people.

Too true. They already have truckloads of hangers-on who'll readily enforce the 'GW only' policy, unofficially, if GW didn't keep turning them away with their official 'GW only' purges. I just came away from a topic on another forum where a guy wanted better-looking eagles for his high elves, but 'frowned on' other companies' models. ::)

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 07, 2014, 10:54:13 PM
The command squad, painted by MrChaos:

 lol Man, that's all excellent.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 08, 2014, 08:40:13 AM
Maybe it will inspire folks here on LAF to join in and start a unit or two of Angry Marines?  ;)

I dug out some old epic minis because I had an idea for a sheep-themed marine chapter, and even picked up a few 28mm marines off ebay to try out the colour scheme. Obviously the initial idea was jokey, but I was going to put a relatively straight-faced spin on it with a couple of ancient greek, hindu etc. references. Although with all the goofy rubbish going on with official marines these days - with BloodBloodBlood Angels and Wolfy McMurderwolfclaus, and going back to power-armoured Space Wolves riding around on giant wolves - I was tempted to model a few riding giant sheep. (That, or the Carcharodons/Space Sharks chapter riding around on jumping sharks...)

I only wonder if many people would recognise it as parody, at this point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 09, 2014, 04:43:11 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 09, 2014, 03:55:06 PM
I only wonder if many people would recognise it as parody, at this point.

Is there a difference anymore, at this point?
Everything is a parody of itself anyways...

The new Space Wolves are a prime example of this. Space Wolves used to be Space Marines with a Barbarian/Viking theme, these days they're clearly  Barbarian Vikings with a Space Marine theme.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 09, 2014, 05:20:50 PM
Well as stupid as the chariot looks... I think that with some very angry marines pulling it instead of wolves, and liberal application of yellow paint, it could fit in well with MrChaos' efforts!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 09, 2014, 07:30:32 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 09, 2014, 01:03:19 PM
Fluff aside, I kinda like that  :?

Needs about four more 'wolves' and proper reins (not the scaffolding bars that are on this one).

Ho hum  lol

cheers

James

See now I see a better picture of the chariot, I actually see potential!! Take away the wolves and sprap on two oversized engines (ala Star Wars pod racer) and that would look the wolf's wanglies!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 09, 2014, 07:55:14 PM
Now that, is a grand idea  :D

I remember seeing a Warhammer chariot race ala Ben Hur years ago so why not an RT version  8)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 09, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
I still think a Squat Hearthguard or Exo-armour would look better on that float-boat than a Space Marine...

I do like that idea of 40K Chariot races.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on August 09, 2014, 08:54:03 PM
Quote from: Modhail on August 09, 2014, 08:36:20 PM
I still think a Squat Hearthguard or Exo-armour would look better on that float-boat than a Space Marine...

I do like that idea of 40K Chariot races.  :)

I agree there!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: elysium64 on August 09, 2014, 09:07:43 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 09, 2014, 07:55:14 PM
Now that, is a grand idea  :D

I remember seeing a Warhammer chariot race ala Ben Hur years ago so why not an RT version  8)

cheers

James

Now there is a challenge we could do for BLAM 2015, create and build a 40K chariot/Pod Racer (I prefer the idea of Pod Racers), to race on the day, would need someone to create rules for creation of chariots?  pod Racers and the races themselves. I would certainly be up for that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 09, 2014, 09:20:18 PM
Quote from: elysium64 on August 09, 2014, 09:07:43 PM
Now there is a challenge we could do for BLAM 2015, create and build a 40K chariot/Pod Racer (I prefer the idea of Pod Racers), to race on the day, would need someone to create rules for creation of chariots?  pod Racers and the races themselves. I would certainly be up for that.

That's not a bad idea either  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 09, 2014, 09:20:53 PM
Hm, apparently the float-boat is called Stormrider...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DED812HKWyM
Shame there seems to be no space to work an MP3-player into that thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 10, 2014, 12:36:24 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 09, 2014, 09:20:18 PM
That's not a bad idea either  :D

cheers

James

Orks would win.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 10, 2014, 12:38:13 AM
I quite like the Logan miniature though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 10, 2014, 12:41:38 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 10, 2014, 12:38:13 AM
I quite like the Logan miniature though.

Agree; individual parts of the kit are good. Being plastic, a Wolves player could get great stuff out of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grimmnar on August 10, 2014, 05:16:17 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 10, 2014, 12:38:13 AM
I quite like the Logan miniature though.
Agree 100%  :-)

Grimm
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 10, 2014, 07:11:04 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 10, 2014, 12:38:13 AM
I quite like the Logan miniature though.

I'm not so sure. Most of him looks good, but if you see him from certain angles his head looks a bit detached!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on August 10, 2014, 06:23:05 PM
The Angry Marines look deadly serious next to Logan in his, um, thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 10, 2014, 08:29:17 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on August 10, 2014, 06:23:05 PM
The Angry Marines look deadly serious next to Logan in his, um, thing.

I think games workshop need to read the reasonable marines page on 1d4chan.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 10, 2014, 08:30:31 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 10, 2014, 12:38:13 AM
I quite like the Logan miniature though.

It reminds me of Omar Sharif in 'Top Secret', trapped inside the crushed car.

(http://professormortis.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/omarsharif.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 10, 2014, 10:08:53 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 10, 2014, 08:30:31 PM
It reminds me of Omar Sharif in 'Top Secret', trapped inside the crushed car.

(http://professormortis.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/omarsharif.jpg)



Thank you for posting this.  :D You just reminded me of this film.  lol
http://youtu.be/7f_19nxNfjs
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 11, 2014, 07:22:36 PM
Yo dawg, we heard you like wolves, so we put some space wolves on your wolves and put them in squads of wolves with some extra wolves, so now you can lead your wolves with your wolf lord while being pulled by wolves.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Logan-Grimnar-and-Thunderwolves?_requestid=9383718

(seriously how many wolves can you take in one game? is this a legal army? )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 11, 2014, 07:25:18 PM
I'll say one thing though, I do like the 360 that they have for their products  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 11, 2014, 07:41:52 PM
I've seen that for Page 3 as well! ;) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 11, 2014, 08:16:12 PM
Quote from: Andym on August 11, 2014, 07:41:52 PM
I've seen that for Page 3 as well! ;) :D

Where  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 11, 2014, 08:26:36 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 11, 2014, 08:16:12 PM
Where  :o

I think that he is talking about those 'moving pictures' on the interwebs...... ;)


As for that wolfy-chariot-thing: I honest thought someone was having a laugh with that one.
Ridiculous!
 o_o o_o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 11, 2014, 10:08:38 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 11, 2014, 08:16:12 PM
Where  :o

I'm not sure if the new Sun website has it, but the old one deffo did. Exactly the same tech and type of views as GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 11, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Quote from: Andym on August 11, 2014, 10:08:38 PM
I'm not sure if the new Sun website has it, but the old one deffo did. Exactly the same tech and type of views as GW.

That's what I meant Paul, not the meanderings from your filthy mind  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 12, 2014, 08:49:02 AM
But there's no squadron option for the chariot - what use is just one? It's almost like GW are not even trying to make money any more.

Fluff addendum:

A recently uncovered document reveals that Logan was actually one of identical quintuplets, separated at birth. Now they've been reunited and all five can fight alongside each other in battle. As a special time-limited deal, all five can be bought for just five times the price of one. Hurry while stocks last  :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 12, 2014, 09:54:58 AM
Quote from: zemjw on August 12, 2014, 08:49:02 AM
But there's no squadron option for the chariot - what use is just one? It's almost like GW are not even trying to make money any more.

Fluff addendum:

A recently uncovered document reveals that Logan was actually one of identical quintuplets, separated at birth. Now they've been reunited and all five can fight alongside each other in battle. As a special time-limited deal, all five can be bought for just five times the price of one. Hurry while stocks last  :D



Don't forget that the datafax required for this special formation can be yours for just $5.99 from the iTunes store. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Engel on August 12, 2014, 10:07:55 AM
Actually buying more minatures in their "one click" buy are more expensive then to buy them seperatly...  ::)

Friends of mine that are into 40k told me soo...

So it would probobly be like pay for six get five...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 12, 2014, 10:36:18 AM
I think it's due to the 5 to 15 quid "convenience surcharge" for only having to click once, instead of 3 times....  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 12, 2014, 12:48:24 PM
Then I have found my calling. I shall be a 'GW Personal Shopper' and hire myself out to potential GW customers who find that extra clicking too arduous. For a mere 25% fee, I will place the order for them using multiple clicks, thus saving them a small fortune!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 12, 2014, 09:28:39 PM
To put an end to it, please do not discuss Mr. Williams' untimely death in here - there's an obituary thread on Open Talk which is more suited to it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Wirelizard on August 12, 2014, 11:36:59 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 11, 2014, 07:22:36 PM
...wolves...wolves...wolves...wolves...wolves...wolves...wolf...wolves.

nic-e's summary is perfect. You know how sometimes when you repeat a word to often, it just becomes a sound and you don't know what it means anymore?

That, and I think that's where GW is with their design process these days.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 13, 2014, 05:26:18 PM
Isn't it time for the Two Minutes of Hate? The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but that it was impossible to avoid joining in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 13, 2014, 09:32:26 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on August 12, 2014, 09:28:39 PM
To put an end to it, please do not discuss Mr. Williams' untimely death in here - there's an obituary thread on Open Talk which is more suited to it.

See, I wanted to discuss Lauren Bacall's 'Nurgle Daemon' army here, but now I'm too nervous to.

Aaaaand, we're back in the room. I actually really wanted to collect a Beastman army at one point and even got so far as buying the Army Book and a few models, but then I lost momentum with it. I liked the Minotaurs and goaty Beastmen, but it didn't really add up to a full army for me, more like a good ally choice. Which was tricky because ... you have to buy the whole damn army book just to get some allies.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 13, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
GW Hates Australians: Part 3

http://tencopper.com/article/2014/08/games-workshop-secretly-moves-to-cut-off-australian-online-retailers/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 14, 2014, 12:24:57 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 13, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
GW Hates Australians: Part 3

http://tencopper.com/article/2014/08/games-workshop-secretly-moves-to-cut-off-australian-online-retailers/

Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia. The enemy of the moment always represented absolute evil, and it followed that any past or future agreement with him was impossible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 14, 2014, 01:15:13 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 13, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
GW Hates Australians: Part 3

http://tencopper.com/article/2014/08/games-workshop-secretly-moves-to-cut-off-australian-online-retailers/
 ::)
Not surprised. Another nail in the coffin. Tom Kirby sounds too arrogant, stubborn, and/or stuck in the past to be an effective CEO. Is he just surrounded by "yes" men?

Quote
The reasons behind the move match up with Games Workshop’s justification in other territories: in their view, online-only stores (“Distance Selling Channels”) don’t contribute anything to “the community”, and therefore don’t help Games Workshop’s bottom line like physical stores (“Shop Front Channels”) do.
Well there is a community here and if they had sensible business practice a lot more would likely still be in love with them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 14, 2014, 01:18:15 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 14, 2014, 01:15:13 AM
 ::)
Not surprised. Another nail in the coffin. Tom Kirby sounds too arrogant, stubborn, and/or stuck in the past to be an effective CEO. Is he just surrounded by "yes" men?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wUjJzdz3_24/TKVGDB3jOdI/AAAAAAAAABY/zCDSlbxDbPk/s1600/yesman.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 14, 2014, 07:02:03 AM
So, GW wants to shut out anyone who doesn't contribute to "the community"... In that case, when will they boycott themselves?
What a bunch of <words not suitable to the sensitive or those of a nervous disposition>!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 14, 2014, 07:29:15 AM
Quote from: grant on August 14, 2014, 12:24:57 AM
Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia. The enemy of the moment always represented absolute evil, and it followed that any past or future agreement with him was impossible.

Is that from 1984? Sounds familiar!  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 14, 2014, 07:33:29 AM
Can they clamp down on the second hand market - eBay for example (a seemingly impossible task)?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 14, 2014, 07:41:18 AM
 lol I'd like to see them try. Imagine the cost of all the lawsuits of people that aren't aware GW says they can't. No court would take it seriously either. Surely if you own something you can sell it. Just like the retailers could sell all their stock at 10% the original cost. that would just stop GW supplying stock,(well that and they probably signed some sort of agreement saying they will sell at a certain price).
That would surely spell the end of GW. I think they are clamping down on bits sellers though so ebay stores of GW stuff could be affected but not secondhand stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 14, 2014, 09:31:20 AM
So if online stores don't contribute to the hobby, why do they put so much effort into online fluff?

Or did GW invent (and therefore perfect) the internet as well, barring anyone else from being able to do it properly?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 14, 2014, 09:42:19 AM

In the future interwebs there is only GWeb. Its Dark and full of Skulz..

-

They need more nails for their coffin.

Maybe we could all donate/send them more nails?

Maybe with extra Skulz on them.

-

Show support for their community and all that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 14, 2014, 12:12:19 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 14, 2014, 09:42:19 AM
They need more nails for their coffin.

Maybe we could all donate/send them more nails?

Maybe with extra Skulz on them.

You mean Skull-nailz? No, you can't send them those as GW invented them as well:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ifWK06WgkCI/U0nExulv9yI/AAAAAAAAI1o/xcVDayEjj1U/s1600/Untitled-3.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on August 14, 2014, 01:03:36 PM
That model needs more skulls.

Even at the hight of my GW-fandom, the skulls were the part I allways made fun of.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 14, 2014, 01:28:45 PM
That smurf commander is one of the best painted
but actually rubbish models that I have seen >:D


Is that skullz with knobs on or a knob with skullz on?

Yep pass me more nails and a big bloody hammer  :P

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 14, 2014, 04:39:32 PM
As if even the Eagles head has been replaced by a skull.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 14, 2014, 05:10:08 PM
MOARSKULLZ!even small ones from darlings on the sword. Lots and lots and lots of skulls!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 14, 2014, 05:22:46 PM
More skullz you say? Well, let's turn him over shall we?

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/threeSixty/99070101005_1WebExclusive360/18.jpg)

There we go!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 14, 2014, 06:36:20 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/TLcDnoh.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 14, 2014, 06:36:56 PM
F**king hell lol

I would be embarrassed by that if I was between the ages of 8-14, which is the age this stuff is rumoured to be aimed at. The eagle head having to also be a skull is just hillarious!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 14, 2014, 07:21:35 PM
40 I believe. Can't believe I just counted them.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on August 14, 2014, 07:31:23 PM
Holy crap  :o.

I mean: Yeah? But can't we have the skulls have skulls on 'm?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 14, 2014, 08:01:19 PM
What is that miniature? I can't see it on GW website.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 14, 2014, 08:02:59 PM
Quote from: Diakon on August 14, 2014, 08:01:19 PM
What is that miniature? I can't see it on GW website.

You have to search "awesome, skullz, blue"

No you don't. I have no idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 14, 2014, 08:26:58 PM
I seem to recall back before black library were forced to closed their Facebook page ,someone asked if they could fit more skulls on it.one of the employees took his carer in his hands and JOINED IN with the skull jokes! Even going so far as to OPENLY MOCK the skulls! we can only assume this man has been taken before the emperor and had his soul devoured, and is now a very skull covered servo skull.


But really if GW closed, i mean just one day was gone, i'd be sad.even amongst all the skulls and foot on rock, they have lots of gems.i use their miniatures to play deadzone in the 40k universe and it's great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 14, 2014, 09:15:20 PM
Quote from: Diakon on August 14, 2014, 08:01:19 PM
What is that miniature? I can't see it on GW website.

It was a limited edition available free for a time if you ordered over so many £££ from their webstore whilst their new website was "new". You got a special redemption code with him too, which entitled you buy a second limited edition model. After the first month or so, the offer for both models were removed.

This was the other model:

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070101004_2ndWESMCaptain1.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Oky7Mox1ehg/U0kFCv_kg_I/AAAAAAAABUo/PlS7QcOFy_s/s1600/_0002_games+workshop+space+marine+captain+webstore+exclusive.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 14, 2014, 09:21:35 PM
I think I'm starting to see a pattern... I believe all Space Marine officers are actually modelled after GW's decision makers: Clearly they all have several nails driven into their brains and are shouting dogma loudly so they don't have to hear feedback and criticism. ;D

Oh, I just discovered something... Apparently the conversation between Tom Kirby and Matt Ward that inspired them both to depart from GW this year has been accidentally recorded. Someone posted it on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU)  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 14, 2014, 09:48:05 PM
Quote from: Modhail on August 14, 2014, 09:21:35 PM
Oh, I just discovered something... Apparently the conversation between Tom Kirby and Matt Ward that inspired them both to depart from GW this year has been accidentally recorded. Someone posted it on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU)  ;)

Couldn't watch the video but I know (and love) that sketch well.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on August 15, 2014, 12:06:01 AM
lol lol that is a lot of skullz. The cloak!!!  :-I But arguably better than a 'rat's anus' lol

Are the sculptors unsure what other detail they can use? To me it looks like 'our clients drybrush, so give them lots of detail to drybrush' Its good to hear that some within the skull coated walls of GW see it's sillyness and are bold enough to say so.

In other news, still no Brets after the July/Aug rumours. :'(

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 15, 2014, 01:27:05 AM
Skullz egg skullz skullz bacon and skullz.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 15, 2014, 02:49:42 AM
I would just like to point out that we are now at 100 pages of hate! Yay!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 15, 2014, 03:29:29 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 15, 2014, 01:27:05 AM
Skullz egg skullz skullz bacon and skullz.
lol im dying here
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 15, 2014, 07:49:55 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 14, 2014, 08:26:58 PM
But really if GW closed, i mean just one day was gone, i'd be sad.even amongst all the skulls and foot on rock, they have lots of gems.i use their miniatures to play deadzone in the 40k universe and it's great.

If only their minis weren't so obscenely expensive!

I woulldn't like to see them all gone either, but I WOULD like to see them heading off in a new direction...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 15, 2014, 08:00:14 AM
Quote from: Argonor on August 15, 2014, 07:49:55 AM
If only their minis weren't so obscenely expensive!

I woulldn't like to see them all gone either, but I WOULD like to see them heading off in a new direction...

Yeah, price and lack of metal is what puts me off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on August 15, 2014, 08:22:43 AM
Oh can I have the Skullz egg skullz skullz bacon and skullz, but instead of egg I'd like Skullz.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 15, 2014, 08:25:38 AM
Quote from: Argonor on August 15, 2014, 07:49:55 AM
I woulldn't like to see them all gone either, but I WOULD like to see them heading off in a new direction...

Agreed - all the other bones in the human skeleton are grossly under-represented on GW models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Wirelizard on August 15, 2014, 08:35:21 AM
Quote from: grant on August 15, 2014, 02:49:42 AM
I would just like to point out that we are now at 100 pages of hate! Yay!  lol

Seems more like 100 pages of comprehensive mockery to me, at least recently.

Quote from: The Voivod on August 15, 2014, 08:22:43 AM
Oh can I have the Skullz egg skullz skullz bacon and skullz, but instead of egg I'd like Skullz.

^ Exhibit A, yer honour. The defence needs a drink.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on August 15, 2014, 10:08:05 AM
Quote from: Wirelizard on August 15, 2014, 08:35:21 AM
Seems more like 100 pages of comprehensive mockery to me, at least recently.



Yeah! Seconded. I am surprised that this really means so much to people on here.

I only end up here because I keep getting it in my feed of replies to own posts because I replied in the beginning! Haha!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 15, 2014, 10:08:55 AM
Quote from: grant on August 15, 2014, 02:49:42 AM
I would just like to point out that we are now at 100 pages of hate! Yay!  lol

It is quite light-hearted, good-intentioned hate.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 15, 2014, 10:26:35 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on August 15, 2014, 08:22:43 AM
Oh can I have the Skullz egg skullz skullz bacon and skullz, but instead of egg I'd like Skullz.

Sorry we're all out of bacon, so just skullz?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 15, 2014, 10:32:40 AM
Quote from: Dr. The Viking on August 15, 2014, 10:08:05 AM

Yeah! Seconded. I am surprised that this really means so much to people on here.

I only end up here because I keep getting it in my feed of replies to own posts because I replied in the beginning! Haha!  lol

Seconded!
That is exactly how I keep drifting back here, and I suspect it is the same for a high percentage of contributors.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 15, 2014, 10:39:04 AM
I suppose it means a lot to people because GW has been a gateway drug for a lot of people. (if not most)

I love the setting of both 40k and fantasy. I don't play any of the games anymore, but I would like to. If only GW would snap out of whatever fase it is they are going through and start beeing awesome again.

GW has been awesome in the past only now it is so long ago it has almost faded from memory.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 15, 2014, 10:45:37 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on August 15, 2014, 10:39:04 AM
I suppose it means a lot to people because GW has been a gateway drug for a lot of people. (if not most)

I love the setting of both 40k and fantasy. I don't play any of the games anymore, but I would like to. If only GW would snap out of whatever fase it is they are going through and start beeing awesome again.

GW has been awesome in the past only now it is so long ago it has almost faded from memory.

I know that feeling, Doc.
I still have quite a few of the older classics, including Mordheim, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Judge Dredd RPG, WHFB 3rd edition, Battlecars, Dark Future and RT.

Love them all but fell out of love with GW itself a long time ago.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 15, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Off topic (sort of) i saw nick bibbys bear sculpture in oxford street the other day and had a sudden moment of joy when i realized it was his work.
I did get a bit of an odd look from some people when i pointed to it and shouted "i know that bear!" , but hey ho.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 15, 2014, 12:03:56 PM
I agree with Doc and Mason.
I love the setting of 40K and Fantasy, but those games and the company moved far away from what attracted me to them in the first place.
I own and love many of the classics GW themselves have discarded in their sycophancy to their shareholders and insane company dogma.

I see that potential for greatness they have in their ranges and settings and how they squander it. And I wish they would just extract their craniums from their sphincters and go back to doing stuff right again.
As Dr. Zombie said:
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on August 15, 2014, 10:39:04 AM
GW has been awesome in the past only now it is so long ago it has almost faded from memory.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2014, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Dr. The Viking on August 15, 2014, 10:08:05 AM
I only end up here because I keep getting it in my feed of replies to own posts because I replied in the beginning! Haha!  lol

It's your own bloody fault then  lol

Quote from: nic-e on August 15, 2014, 11:58:50 AM
Off topic (sort of) i saw nick bibbys bear sculpture in oxford street the other day and had a sudden moment of joy when i realized it was his work.
I did get a bit of an odd look from some people when i pointed to it and shouted "i know that bear!" , but hey ho.

Pics? (of the bear, not you pointing  ;) )

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 15, 2014, 12:18:42 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 15, 2014, 12:04:20 PM
Pics? (of the bear, not you pointing  ;) )

http://www.nickbibby.net/

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 15, 2014, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 15, 2014, 12:04:20 PM
It's your own bloody fault then  lol

Pics? (of the bear, not you pointing  ;) )

cheers

James

It's bloody huge. Quite amazing to think of it in comparison to a rto1 marine.

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/Nick-Bibby-Bear-Sculpture-2336481_zps842e0e42.jpg)



A do love the 40k setting beyond all over settings, but i wish the game was more like inq28  and had stuck t oa blanche like style :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on August 15, 2014, 12:20:31 PM
I have followed this thread for a while. Might as well post so I can stay up to date with it.

Games Workshop is the Irish pubs of gaming. Simple, enticing and easily accessible. In the days before the internet it was how most of us got into gaming because it was the only gaming company with a magazine and stores to capture us. Today the internet allows anyone (look at Kickstarter et al.) to reach the relatively small number of gamers in the world and grab their attention cheaply and from anywhere.

Around 2000 Games Workshop believed as there's new (younger) gamers born every day the trick was to get them. But isn't retention of your current customers cheaper? Also not listening to critism will eventually lose you fans. How hard would it be to support Specialist Games? Hell that's all I game from GW now (painting a Blood Bowl team at the moment).

Meh - I think Games Workshop is here for the long run. It will only take a new CEO (or an old one - see Apple) to turn things around to be innovative again.

If that CEO is Scurv, so be it. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2014, 12:21:40 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 15, 2014, 12:18:49 PM
It's bloody huge. Quite amazing to think of it in comparison to a rto1 marine.

about the same size then using current conventions  lol

Quote from: nic-e on August 15, 2014, 12:18:49 PM
A do love the 40k setting beyond all over settings, but i wish the game was more like inq28  and had stuck t oa blanche like style :)

Paul Bonner got it for me, that's the setting and style that I like  8) 8)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 15, 2014, 12:32:38 PM
Quote from: Wirelizard on August 15, 2014, 08:35:21 AM
Seems more like 100 pages of comprehensive mockery to me, at least recently.

^ Exhibit A, yer honour. The defence needs a drink.  ;)

Oh absolutely; I think like many that if GW weren't so plain expensive and bone-headed, I wouldn't be doing anything else! The games are fun, the minis skulltacular, I just like to do other things now. :)

I also believe making one comprehensive thread was well worth it. Look at all the interesting discussion in these (now 101!) pages.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 15, 2014, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 15, 2014, 08:25:38 AM
Agreed - all the other bones in the human skeleton are grossly under-represented on GW models.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on August 15, 2014, 12:41:21 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 15, 2014, 12:21:40 PM
Paul Bonner got it for me, that's the setting and style that I like

Mark Gibbons for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2014, 12:48:04 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on August 15, 2014, 12:41:21 PM
Mark Gibbons for me.

A bit too grim-dark for me  :-X

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 15, 2014, 01:01:40 PM
Heh, my tastes are simple... Any of the RT and 2nd ed 40K artists (due to nostalgia-goggles), plus Blanche and Kopinsky beyond that era.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on August 15, 2014, 01:03:57 PM
The later stuff yes, same for Adrian Smith. This image:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bxQG1kqKTnY/U1I_r3MvEJI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/mD3pk-GOrsE/s1600/Z_NecroIG.jpg)

Sold me to 40K. I mean look at what the background fluff has created:
http://questing-artificer.blogspot.com.au/p/artwork-gallery.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 15, 2014, 01:35:01 PM
Oh yes! That image... GW should have produced that as the Imperial Guard range.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 15, 2014, 02:17:18 PM
Quote from: Modhail on August 15, 2014, 01:35:01 PM
Oh yes! That image... GW should have produced that as the Imperial Guard range.

Not enough skullz. Also, no feet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 15, 2014, 02:30:38 PM
What do you mean, there's 4 skulls visible from the front alone, and he likely has one inside of his helmet as well! That's more than the current Cadian plastics have! Besides, his bedroll looks lumpy, he may easily have rolled another 4 -5 skulls in there, to save for later.

Okay, the no feet thing could be a problem... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 15, 2014, 02:52:48 PM
Quote from: Modhail on August 15, 2014, 01:01:40 PM
Blanche and Kopinsky beyond that era.

Yup. And a bit of Paul Dainton and Adrian Smith. And the guy whose art was in the 40K 3rd ed book, whose name escapes me, but his style reminds me a wee bit of Mike McMahon. (Edit: Wayne England (http://www.northernshield-team.com/northernshield2/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/wayne_england_Thebolter.jpg))
On that note, there were some of the guys on the Warhammer comic, crossing over with 2000AD in some cases. Colin MacNeil, Anthony Williams, the Kevs Walker and Hopgood, Tiernan Trevallion and the inestimable Wayne Reynolds.

---

On the subject of skulls and bones, didja see who they're bringing back?

http://youtu.be/jU20Fac1kSY

(http://i.imgur.com/fIzAWd3.jpg)

I'm not entirely sure if the old one is worse.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on August 15, 2014, 03:03:02 PM
From bobble-headed Nagash to pin-headed Nagash... :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 15, 2014, 03:24:13 PM
Bring back the bobble head. Don't like this new one. I might re-evaluate my opinion when I see a better picture but it looks awful in that one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 15, 2014, 03:28:17 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 15, 2014, 02:52:48 PM
Yup. And a bit of Paul Dainton and Adrian Smith. And the guy whose art was in the 40K 3rd ed book, whose name escapes me, but his style reminds me a wee bit of Mike McMahon. (Edit: Wayne England (http://www.northernshield-team.com/northernshield2/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/wayne_england_Thebolter.jpg))
On that note, there were some of the guys on the Warhammer comic, crossing over with 2000AD in some cases. Colin MacNeil, Anthony Williams, the Kevs Walker and Hopgood, Tiernan Trevallion and the inestimable Wayne Reynolds.

---

On the subject of skulls and bones, didja see who they're bringing back?

http://youtu.be/jU20Fac1kSY

(http://i.imgur.com/fIzAWd3.jpg)

I'm not entirely sure if the old one is worse.

nagash needs to lay off the steroids.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on August 15, 2014, 03:31:24 PM
I see he's a quarterback now?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 15, 2014, 03:35:42 PM
Quote from: Dr. The Viking on August 15, 2014, 03:31:24 PM
I see he's a quarterback now?

Damnit beat me to it!

If Nagash could be any more Lombardi in his running of the undead team...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2014, 05:15:02 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 15, 2014, 02:52:48 PM

On the subject of skulls and bones, didja see who they're bringing back?

(http://i.imgur.com/fIzAWd3.jpg)

I'm not entirely sure if the old one is worse.

Wow, that's shockingly bad  :-X

Keep the book, burn the rest. At least the bobble headed one could have a head swap  :?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 15, 2014, 07:57:03 PM
That image is down already. What was it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2014, 08:04:03 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 15, 2014, 07:57:03 PM
That image is down already. What was it?

A turd  :-X

Not surprising really and plenty of mileage in it on this thread for the next few weeks I would imagine  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 15, 2014, 08:04:30 PM
I think it was supposed to be a new version of Nagash. But I honestly cant remember Nagash having 6 extra spines coming out of his back, being pinheaded, or having a giant centipede for a shlong though....

Oh, and his taste in headwear has gotten worse.  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on August 15, 2014, 08:11:02 PM
There's still a picture up here:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-fantasy/nagash-returns-world-warhammer-fantasy/

Wasn't someone complaining about other human bones being under-represantated earlier?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 15, 2014, 08:46:40 PM
Looking at Nagash, I guess spinez are the new skullz  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on August 15, 2014, 09:02:00 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on August 15, 2014, 12:41:21 PM
Mark Gibbons for me.
He did a lot of work during 2nd Ed 40k and was my favourite early on. Even got his autograph at Games Day 1995!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 15, 2014, 09:13:56 PM
I don't really mind that new nagash too much. Maybe a few less bones... Then again it was the undead armies that pulled me into GW originally (not including heroquest) if some middle ground between the old and new one were found it could be great. Still, one blurry picture doesn't give a great representation of the finished sculpt does it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 15, 2014, 09:54:25 PM
Actually I saw a better pic of it... Looks like he is ejaculating ghosts.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 15, 2014, 10:09:24 PM
It's a piece of shit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2014, 10:14:38 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 15, 2014, 10:09:24 PM
It's a piece of shit.

 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 15, 2014, 10:15:59 PM
As for artists defining the GW "look"  - Ian Miller all the way for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 15, 2014, 10:17:11 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on August 15, 2014, 10:15:59 PM
As for artists defining the GW "look"  - Ian Miller all the way for me.

I nearly got his art of book in Forbidden Planet the other week but got the Paul Bonner one instead  8)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 15, 2014, 10:41:17 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 15, 2014, 10:17:11 PM
I nearly got his art of book in Forbidden Planet the other week but got the Paul Bonner one instead  8)

cheers

James

Guess you had a bonner boner?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 15, 2014, 11:30:02 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 15, 2014, 10:09:24 PM
It's a piece of shit.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 16, 2014, 10:21:52 AM
Quote from: Gibby on August 15, 2014, 10:09:24 PM
It's a piece of shit.

Couldn't agree more unfortunately. ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 16, 2014, 10:59:03 AM
Admitting that the size of the old Nagash head was ridiculous, I'd still like one pulling a cheesy grin. Then I might buy it.  :D It's the same reason I love the 2nd edition Hive Tyrant. I love a a massive cheesy grin on a miniature.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 16, 2014, 11:55:21 AM
Quote from: Diakon on August 16, 2014, 10:59:03 AM
Admitting that the size of the old Nagash head was ridiculous,

What's the whole point of Nagash being a giant, anyway? I remember a game with undeads vs. empire; first turn the empire player shot and killed Nagash with his cannon, making the undead army wither away as a consequence... VERY fun game... (I didn't participate)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 16, 2014, 12:00:55 PM
We need an official Nagash discussion thread. I think we can make 100 pages on that one too if we try.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 16, 2014, 12:09:39 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on August 16, 2014, 12:00:55 PM
We need an official Nagash discussion thread. I think we can make 100 pages on that one too if we try.

Easy.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 16, 2014, 01:32:33 PM
Quote from: Argonor on August 16, 2014, 11:55:21 AM
What's the whole point of Nagash being a giant, anyway? I remember a game with undeads vs. empire; first turn the empire player shot and killed Nagash with his cannon, making the undead army wither away as a consequence... VERY fun game... (I didn't participate)

I was thinking this myself, isnt he meant to be just a standard size human? Plus if it is implying hes a giant, where the hell did a 'warhammer' get the intelligence to become the worlds best necromancer and what not?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 16, 2014, 08:17:40 PM
In the old 3rd ed(?) army book I have, if I remember correctly he ate loads of warp stone (why,  :? ) that mutated him to large size.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 16, 2014, 08:31:39 PM
I think there's some fluff about all the magic infusing his body that caused him to grow bigger (though maybe not giant-sized) as well as wither him into a boney liche. (Edit: Aye, what Beefcake said) To be honest it doesn't bother me that much, especially when one of his other features is his ability to reconstitute himself from a few particles of dust or ashes after several centuries*, and even though the answer boils down to something that usually pees me off:

A wizard did it.  ;D

Argonor: One of the things I gather about 8th ed is that cannons are overpowered, both slaughtering monsters and sniping characters etc. So it doesn't entirely matter how big he is in that regard. Though from what I also gather of the sneak-peek at Nagash's new WD rules, one of his cheesy bucketload of special rules negates that to some degree.

*Although, of course, he is Warhammer's Not-Sauron.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 16, 2014, 08:36:29 PM
I think the best mini I have seen that would suit Nagash is the cmon lich king. Unfortunately that was limited production and I've never seen it being resold  >:( also an old heartbreaker model being sold at ral partha Europe looks quite cool as a proxy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 16, 2014, 08:55:17 PM
Someone at Dakka posted pics of someone else's Golden Demon entry as an example of a superior Nagash design. This 'un:

(http://www.puttyandpaint.com/images/uploads/artistworks/796/cache/nagash_01__sized_l.jpg)

http://www.puttyandpaint.com/projects/796

Bit necron-y in places, for my tastes, but makes Boney Boring-Pose McGoombahead (http://www.thenerdpocalypse.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/goomba.jpg) look like the shoddy effort it is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 16, 2014, 09:01:08 PM
i kind of like mantics mhorgoth the faceless as an imposing but not overly large nagash substitute.stick him on a base of rising skeletal hordes and have that magical energy extend around them and BAM! large centerpiece without needing a  giant figure. (although he was their nagash, who was gw's sauron )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on August 16, 2014, 09:12:52 PM
Don't thump me everyone but...There is room for MORE SKULLZ!! Loads of room on that Nagash.

I was thinking the other day about whatever 'golden era' you choose, for Citadel and Games Workshop miniatures, the stuff was never consistently good. So if you think about the lovely Perry Brettonians, they were out at the same time as the argueably crap 'new' chunkier, Orcs. When Orcs became less gnarly and more 'comedy' Actually I think GW have never really nailed the sculpting of Orcs. There has always been some good ones and a lot of 'meh' ones. That is a different discussion though...  

Could 'The Hobby' survive without GW though? Without them miniatures and wargames become a bit more niche don't they? Even with GamesWarlordshop. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 16, 2014, 09:20:35 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 16, 2014, 08:31:39 PM
A wizard did it.  ;D


"Whenever something like that happens, it's because a wizard did it!"

(http://www.nerdlikeyou.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/The-Simpsons-nerd-cameos-Lucy-Lawless.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 16, 2014, 09:24:54 PM
Well, that is also a rather apt synopsis of the most recent shareholder's preamble, isn't it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 16, 2014, 09:33:02 PM
Cubs, Modhail: lol lol

Nic-e: Yes! That's a good 'un.

Westwaller: with all those other bones on him I'm kinda surprised that GW were relatively conservative with the skulls. He has fewer than the average space marine captain! They could've taken it just a smidge further as the ultimate statement about their design philosophy and make him the skulliest skull who ever skulled a skull. Skull.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 17, 2014, 02:53:00 AM
I think Nagash came out abut the same time as that giant skaven demon rat thing. They were going through a phase of awesoming up all the evil races so they all had some greater daemon equivalent.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 17, 2014, 09:24:47 AM
I think they should have used the tomb kings liche preists as a base, he was after all khemrian if I remember correctly.
I shall have to look into his background again me thinks haha.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 17, 2014, 09:47:04 AM
I don't think Nagash has a place on the battlefield. It would be like the Empire fielding Sigmar. Or one of the actual Chaos gods making an appearance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 17, 2014, 10:23:50 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on August 17, 2014, 09:47:04 AM
I don't think Nagash has a place on the battlefield. It would be like the Empire fielding Sigmar. Or one of the actual Chaos gods making an appearance.

Give it time, You can already field primarchs in 30k games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on August 17, 2014, 11:17:50 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 17, 2014, 10:23:50 AM
Give it time, You can already field primarchs in 30k games.

That's a lot of points.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 17, 2014, 03:13:37 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on August 17, 2014, 11:17:50 AM
That's a lot of points.

If you're going to play, go big. Also, 30,000 points should be on 4x6 only.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 17, 2014, 07:31:40 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 16, 2014, 08:31:39 PM
[Nagash] is Warhammer's Not-Sauron.

Actually, I always thought that was Malekith The Witch King...? He even has a tower that he watches the world from and plots his revenge on the High Elves. Naggarond, the Tower of Cold (http://warhammerfb.wikia.com/wiki/Naggaroth)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 17, 2014, 08:21:01 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on August 17, 2014, 11:17:50 AM
That's a lot of points.

I did of course mean 30k as in heresy era, but i dread to think what playing a 30k game on a 6x4 would be like.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pacarat on August 17, 2014, 10:05:54 PM
Quote from: Modhail on August 15, 2014, 02:30:38 PM
What do you mean, there's 4 skulls visible from the front alone, and he likely has one inside of his helmet as well!

That's the funniest comment I've read in a long while...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 17, 2014, 10:09:06 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 17, 2014, 08:21:01 PM
I did of course mean 30k as in heresy era, but i dread to think what playing a 30k game on a 6x4 would be like.

The way they've slashed the points costs in recent codicies (I wonder why?) two 1500 armies make a 6x4 table look ridiculously overcrowded. Can't imagine a 30k army on one. Let alone two.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 18, 2014, 07:16:44 AM
Quote from: Diakon on August 17, 2014, 10:09:06 PM
The way they've slashed the points costs in recent codicies (I wonder why?)

You're kidding, right?  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 18, 2014, 07:25:46 AM
New marketing strategy I guess. That 3000 pt army you had is now only 2000 so you need another 1000 (previously 1500pts) to get back to where you started.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 18, 2014, 09:15:42 AM
Quote from: Diakon on August 17, 2014, 10:09:06 PM
The way they've slashed the points costs in recent codicies [...] Can't imagine a 30k army on one.
I seem to remember that you can get a full Dark Angel Battle Company for 1500pts in the current codex... So 30,000pts should be enough for the complete Chapter?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 18, 2014, 10:43:40 AM
Quote from: Argonor on August 18, 2014, 07:16:44 AM
You're kidding, right?  o_o

Most definitely.  lol

Quote from: beefcake on August 18, 2014, 07:25:46 AM
New marketing strategy I guess. That 3000 pt army you had is now only 2000 so you need another 1000 (previously 1500pts) to get back to where you started.

That's exactly it. I did have a 2000 point Daemon army before the newest codex came out. Now it's worth 750-1000 points depending on options. I was already drifting away from them but that killed GW for me. Never bought anything from them since. Don't think I will again. And if I do I'll buy it from Boyes or e-bay.

Unfortunately it's my gaming groups main game so I still kind of have to play it if I want regular games. Luckily I've got about 500-750 points of Chaos Marines so I just combine my armies. I'm also trying to wean them off 40k with IHMN and a few other games. They also seem to be getting more disenfranchised with every GW release and one guy has already started building an IHMN gang from Perry samurai so it seems to be slowly working.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 18, 2014, 11:01:20 AM
I remember when a blood thirsted used to cost 800 points. That's sure changed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on August 18, 2014, 12:29:32 PM
Quote from: Diakon on August 18, 2014, 10:43:40 AM
one guy has already started building an IHMN gang from Perry samurai so it seems to be slowly working.  :D

Slow and steady Daikon, looks like your evil scheme is working so far ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 18, 2014, 11:08:32 PM
More shots of nagash.
At what point does a miniature become a statue?
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/Nagash-Cover_zpsf18b9871.jpg)

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/Nagash-Miniature1_zpsf8aad0a2.jpg)

There's also what looks like a campaign book/army supplement based around him, so perhaps something big really is coming.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 18, 2014, 11:32:54 PM
i like him  :o :o though he looks more like a Cryx Warcaster than anything GW
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 18, 2014, 11:37:53 PM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 18, 2014, 11:32:54 PM
i like him  :o :o though he looks more like a Cryx Warcaster than anything GW
Come on PP vs GW court case.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 19, 2014, 02:03:29 AM
Head too small but overall I think it is better than the recent offerings by GW. Not on my to buy list though, Still too over the top. And you would need to buy at least 2 of him because he looks quite snap-able.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 19, 2014, 06:45:37 AM
Still look shit  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 19, 2014, 11:23:03 AM
I can appreciate the work that's gone into it and the intricacy of the piece ...... but it does leave me decidedly cold. It just appears like an exercise in excess, without any sort of sympathy to what it's actually meant to represent.

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 19, 2014, 11:33:31 AM
Quote from: Cubs on August 19, 2014, 11:23:03 AM
I can appreciate the work that's gone into it and the intricacy of the piece ...... but it does leave me decidedly cold. It just appears like an exercise in excess, without any sort of sympathy to what it's actually meant to represent.

Yea, in a way its too professionally made to be straight up bad. But has nothing going for it to call it bad.

I will say tough, it doesn't seem to fit in particularly well. The proportions look out of style to me. Warhammer always has had a bit of a comical proportion to its miniatures and this thing looks like a overly slender action figure. In fact they might just have used a barbie doll as a armature for this.   ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 19, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
The thing that always tickles me about undead figures is that they care enough about their appearance to demand undead themed armour and clothing. This miniature emphasises that. I picture Nagash acting a bit like the Knights Who Say Ni with their shrubbery request, but for his hat.

"And I want it to have little thumb bones all across the top, and it has to be really tall, and a nice purple please, with some ribs round the middle."

There is a little Gok Wan in the Warhammer World hosting How To Look Good Undead, and this is his most epic episode.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 19, 2014, 12:53:25 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 19, 2014, 11:23:03 AM
I can appreciate the work that's gone into it and the intricacy of the piece ...... but it does leave me decidedly cold. It just appears like an exercise in excess, without any sort of sympathy to what it's actually meant to represent.

 

That's what I said  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 19, 2014, 12:56:03 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 19, 2014, 02:03:29 AM
Head too small

I would say, the mitre more than makes up for that...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 19, 2014, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 19, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
There is a little Gok Wan in the Warhammer World hosting How To Look Good Undead, and this is his most epic episode.

Tis true!

Who do you think pressurises them into repainting all their shields into bony designs?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on August 19, 2014, 01:04:07 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 19, 2014, 12:57:37 PM
Tis true!

Who do you think pressurises them into repainting all their shields into bony designs?

It's obviously Incase someone mistakes them for a living person.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 19, 2014, 02:30:48 PM
Bah! It actually doesn't look as bad in the proper pics. Still bad though. Basically...

Quote from: Cubs on August 19, 2014, 11:23:03 AM
I can appreciate the work that's gone into it and the intricacy of the piece ...... but it does leave me decidedly cold. It just appears like an exercise in excess, without any sort of sympathy to what it's actually meant to represent.

... That.

Though the hat look even worse now.

Quote from: Gibby on August 19, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
The thing that always tickles me about undead figures is that they care enough about their appearance to demand undead themed armour and clothing. This miniature emphasises that. I picture Nagash acting a bit like the Knights Who Say Ni with their shrubbery request, but for his hat.

"And I want it to have little thumb bones all across the top, and it has to be really tall, and a nice purple please, with some ribs round the middle."

That too!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 04:05:01 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 19, 2014, 12:08:01 PM
The thing that always tickles me about undead figures is that they care enough about their appearance to demand undead themed armour and clothing. This miniature emphasises that. I picture Nagash acting a bit like the Knights Who Say Ni with their shrubbery request, but for his hat.

"And I want it to have little thumb bones all across the top, and it has to be really tall, and a nice purple please, with some ribs round the middle."

There is a little Gok Wan in the Warhammer World hosting How To Look Good Undead, and this is his most epic episode.

I always thought the same about galactus.Why does a planet eating god need a bit purple hat, and who out there is making silly head wear for him?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 19, 2014, 05:09:20 PM
Apparently because nothing says "Omnicidal Maniac" like a giant purple hat with antlers?  ;D

At least now we know Galactus and Nagash have the same milliner.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 19, 2014, 05:09:46 PM
That thing looks FRAGILE. There are going to be a lot of gamers who'll wind up with the "kid who just dropped their ice cream cone on the ground" face after their mate knocks their Nagash over, shattering it into a thousand pieces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 05:14:38 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 19, 2014, 05:09:46 PM
That thing looks FRAGILE. There are going to be a lot of gamers who'll wind up with the "kid who just dropped their ice cream cone on the ground" face after their mate knocks their Nagash over, shattering it into a thousand pieces.

And then make the "kid choking their friend to death with a roll of 28mm scale barbed wire whilst shouting profanities that would make Frankie Boyle faint" face.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 19, 2014, 05:14:56 PM
Don't worry about shattering, it's made from plastic. It will just deform and tear...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 05:36:13 PM
So some details.
The new book contains a new way of playing warhammer but ISN'T a new edition.it's a book designed to accommodate the setting with nagash at large.

The von carstein family has been resurrected by nagash and have new kits coming out. He is basically uniting ALL evil.


Stolen from BoLS;

What the background in the WD tell us:
- I hope you didn't like Kislev, because there is no longer a Kislev.
- Archaon advance have been stalled by Vlad under the order of Nagash (the Empire was in major trouble).
- Nagash goes fighting to unite the Tomb Kings and VC (one of the scenario pictured in WD translate into "the Fall of Settra").

Regarding miniatures/rules:
- Nagash is magnificent, and very very tall thanks to his flying posture (he is supported by a bunch of souls).
- But he's not that massive overall, I have no idea how he managed to reach the 85€ pricetag.
- Not a dual kit.
- No other models that week, but the ones serving under him are hinted at the end of WD for the week after (so I suppose Vlad and that Arkhan dude, note that I know the WFB lore very poorly).
- As people expected, the new magic lore appear to work like Demonology for 40k (except with undead).
- Rules are changing with that extension, 50% lords for example.


(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/x_zps03c98b7c.jpg)

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/xx_zps40f9ab1e.jpg)

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/xxx_zpsac6c1b6e.jpg)

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/xxxx_zps0daf5665.jpg)

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/xxxxx_zps609c6913.jpg)

So those of you who wondered why fantasy wasn't getting any love lately can see now that GW were planning something big for it. this looks to be the bulk of 3 weeks worth of releases, but no doubt there will be more for other factions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 19, 2014, 06:00:59 PM
 :o :o :o

I think that these new releases are some of the most hideous things I have seen in some time.
I should point out that when I say 'hideous', I do not mean that as a good thing.
That is a terrible new look they are going for, in my opinion.

 :o :o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 06:04:12 PM
Quote from: Mason on August 19, 2014, 06:00:59 PM
:o :o :o

I think that these new releases are some of the most hideous things I have seen in some time.
I should point out that when I say 'hideous', I do not mean that as a good thing.
That is a terrible new look they are going for, in my opinion.

 :o :o



You're not wrong.

I quite like the spirit host, but that's about it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 19, 2014, 06:07:41 PM
They left me cold with their new aesthetic years ago but this is fucking terrible! They have taken the Old World and turned it into Azeroth from World of Warcraft. Cartoony junk year after year.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 06:22:14 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 19, 2014, 06:07:41 PM
They left me cold with their new aesthetic years ago but this is fucking terrible! They have taken the Old World and turned it into Azeroth from World of Warcraft. Cartoony junk year after year.

Remind me of the different between mega blocks and lego.with lego you get a kit that you can play around with and make your own, with mega blocks you get set parts to make 1 thing that can't really be changed.
GW used to be the lego of wargaming, stylized but versatile. now they're the mega blocks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 19, 2014, 06:26:43 PM
What a load of shit  :-X :-X :-X

And the fact there is no longer any Kislev is bollocks...

Back to 3rd ed then  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 19, 2014, 06:26:43 PM
What a load of shit  :-X :-X :-X

And the fact there is no longer any Kislev is bollocks...

Back to 3rd ed then  :D

cheers

James

Kislev is gone just for this setting i think. I'm thinking of this as a sort of multiverse idea, where the normal warhammer world stays as it has done for years, then people who want to explore the end of the world can play with this setting.


Then again, maybe gw just wants Kislev gone so they don't have to try and make an army of bear riding humans with black powder rifles, then fuck it up and get flakk for it.
(god dammit Kislev is badass.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 19, 2014, 06:37:26 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 06:32:19 PM
Kislev is gone just for this setting i think. I'm thinking of this as a sort of multiverse idea, where the normal warhammer world stays as it has done for years, then people who want to explore the end of the world can play with this setting.

Which is even more shit  :-[

They really do think they own the 'hobby' don't they. I bet they think they thought of the idea of not sticking to canon first...  ::)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 19, 2014, 06:40:44 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 06:04:12 PM
You're not wrong.

I quite like the spirit host, but that's about it.

I was just going to remark that I like the various ghosts/spirits, but the rest looks rather... weird..?

€85 for ONE character model??!! I wonder what it'll cost to field a playable army if starting from scratch...

I am just now planning to make a full Lords of Undeath army for God of Battles out of old GW plastic skeletons, GW Ethereals, GW Mummies, the odd GW wight, a necromancer or liche (or maybe even the old dodgey Nagash, which I have had sitting in a drawer for 15 odd years - part of a second hand buy) and some Mantic zombies. I have just about everything I need for a full 60 pts. army (largest recommended size), just need to get a few bits and bobs for enhancement markers and such.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 19, 2014, 06:46:32 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 19, 2014, 06:07:41 PM
They left me cold with their new aesthetic years ago but this is fucking terrible! They have taken the Old World and turned it into Azeroth from World of Warcraft. Cartoony junk year after year.

Warcraft really bled into and fucked up the aesthetic of a lot of games, D&D and Pathfinder being very notable. I actually liked Warcraft quite a bit, but I certainly didn't need to see that video game reverse influence tabletop games. To make matters worse WotC and Blizzard seem bent on homogenizing the look of fantasy. Looking through Spectrum books, I can't tell the new artists apart from each other, and at GenCon the only thing that might distinguish one fantasy advert banner from another was the company logo.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 08:29:41 PM
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/xxxxxxx_zps293ae6e1.jpg)

Prices are extortionate!

I really hate the warcraft style, so i'm very sad that it crops up in so many things.still,it's better than everything turning anime.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on August 19, 2014, 08:40:50 PM
Quote from: Argonor on August 19, 2014, 06:40:44 PM
I was just going to remark that I like the various ghosts/spirits, but the rest looks rather... weird..?

€85 for ONE character model??!! I wonder what it'll cost to field a playable army if starting from scratch...

I am just now planning to make a full Lords of Undeath army for God of Battles out of old GW plastic skeletons, GW Ethereals, GW Mummies, the odd GW wight, a necromancer or liche (or maybe even the old dodgey Nagash, which I have had sitting in a drawer for 15 odd years - part of a second hand buy) and some Mantic zombies. I have just about everything I need for a full 60 pts. army (largest recommended size), just need to get a few bits and bobs for enhancement markers and such.



Your first born child and a tithe of 30% of your annual income is the current estimation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 19, 2014, 08:48:19 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on August 19, 2014, 06:46:32 PM
Warcraft really bled into and fucked up the aesthetic of a lot of games, D&D and Pathfinder being very notable. I actually liked Warcraft quite a bit, but I certainly didn't need to see that video game reverse influence tabletop games. To make matters worse WotC and Blizzard seem bent on homogenizing the look of fantasy. Looking through Spectrum books, I can't tell the new artists apart from each other, and at GenCon the only thing that might distinguish one fantasy advert banner from another was the company logo.

Yes! This! So much has this horribly samey aesthetic now! Fantasy Flight Games are also guilty of it with their Descent artwork!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 19, 2014, 08:51:29 PM
I don't think there are enough skullz inside those horses.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 19, 2014, 08:51:29 PM
I don't think there are enough skullz inside those horses.

Well thats' what you get when yous ay nagash doesn't have enough skulls.

The design team at GW MUST know by now that the skulls are pretty much a meme? are they deliberately carrying on the joke by giving us a horse literally made of skulls, or do they not realize just how often they put skulls in things?

Is the anyone in the warhammer world left with a skull actually in their head?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 19, 2014, 10:10:53 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 09:00:46 PM
Is the anyone in the warhammer world left with a skull actually in their head?

Nope, and the brains are gone with it...  ::)

But, really! I can buy almost a full army for many rules/settiings for that amount. Why can't they see what they're doing to themselves??
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 19, 2014, 10:15:34 PM
Oh .... dear ....

Is 'jumping the shark' applicable to this stuff? Yes, the spirit host coming out of the grave is quite well done, but why do they need knives?

Everything else ... that has made me sad. If it's 'horror' stuff, shouldn't it be scary? All they've done is put giant hats on everything, with giant weapons in their hands ... and they're riding giant fossil things. Christ on a bike, how did these 'action figures' get past the design stage?

The argument used to be that GW had silly prices, but at least they made the best models. I know that's going to be a judgement call from each individual POV, but I don't think I'm alone in thinking that really, really is not the case any more.

Again, the technical sculpting looks top-notch, I don't think you could really nitpick there. But the actual aesthetics are ... nonsense. Bigger, brasher, weirder, yeah that's the way to go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: Argonor on August 19, 2014, 10:10:53 PM
Nope, and the brains are gone with it...  ::)

But, really! I can buy almost a full army for many rules/settiings for that amount. Why can't they see what they're doing to themselves??

Yup, the deadzone starter set plus some extra figures and scenery cost me less,plus my mantic points got me 10 free orcs.
And now i use it to play with my inq28 warbands.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 19, 2014, 10:21:32 PM
I quite like the Shieldwolf plastic Mountain Orcs. Very much the 'Savage Orc' feel to them and at £25 for 20 of them, that's pretty affordable.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7V5SZ-vvpyg/Uv03aRj-XOI/AAAAAAAAZyA/QYmPmDc1yF0/s1600/Mountain_Orcs_Infantry_with_2nd_hand_weapon_By_Shieldwolf_Miniatures.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 10:31:26 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 19, 2014, 10:15:34 PM
Oh .... dear ....

Is 'jumping the shark' applicable to this stuff? Yes, the spirit host coming out of the grave is quite well done, but why do they need knives?

Everything else ... that has made me sad. If it's 'horror' stuff, shouldn't it be scary? All they've done is put giant hats on everything, with giant weapons in their hands ... and they're riding giant fossil things. Christ on a bike, how did these 'action figures' get past the design stage?

The argument used to be that GW had silly prices, but at least they made the best models. I know that's going to be a judgement call from each individual POV, but I don't think I'm alone in thinking that really, really is not the case any more.

Again, the technical sculpting looks top-notch, I don't think you could really nitpick there. But the actual aesthetics are ... nonsense. Bigger, brasher, weirder, yeah that's the way to go.

 digital sculpting has basically given them free reign to make the first thing they can think of.the limits of casting and sculpting before meant they had to focus on tone and character to show what the figure is, now they can just make it huge and covered in skulls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 19, 2014, 10:33:07 PM
They should be affordable - they've got second hand weapons!  ;)

A bit more than a quid each seems quite appropriate for plastic minis - and more in line with much other stuff out there.

Mind you, I don't get chuffed by having to pay a little extra for high quality - Hasslefree minis, for example, are not cheap, but they are really, really nice. But bigger and bigger, uglier and uglier monstrosities that bear resemblance to some of the action toys aimed at 10-years old boys (at a 10th of the price) just don't do it for me. Period.

I got into 28mm gaming through GW. The way things are now, I never would have. I think we're lucky to have the internet these days, where it's easy to show things to potential newcomers to the hobby - and almost everything is easily accessible - or we might have seen a drastic decrease in new 'playmates' (we may still, only time will tell).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on August 19, 2014, 10:58:23 PM
All I can think of is the Perry Twins.

Were they ever have to apply for a job, I'm sure there's one former employer they'd conveniently leave off their resume...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 11:05:25 PM
Quote from: Argonor on August 19, 2014, 10:33:07 PM
They should be affordable - they've got second hand weapons!  ;)

A bit more than a quid each seems quite appropriate for plastic minis - and more in line with much other stuff out there.

Mind you, I don't get chuffed by having to pay a little extra for high quality - Hasslefree minis, for example, are not cheap, but they are really, really nice. But bigger and bigger, uglier and uglier monstrosities that bear resemblance to some of the action toys aimed at 10-years old boys (at a 10th of the price) just don't do it for me. Period.

I got into 28mm gaming through GW. The way things are now, I never would have. I think we're lucky to have the internet these days, where it's easy to show things to potential newcomers to the hobby - and almost everything is easily accessible - or we might have seen a drastic decrease in new 'playmates' (we may still, only time will tell).

I think it'll cause a divide in the hobby.the big toy like kits and simple (or not) rules will bring in younger kids, who will either outgrow it in their teens because all the darker grittier stuff is gone , or parents will no  longer support the habit, or they'll be intimidated by the other parts of the hobby and see them as too advanced, give up and never go back to it.

I got into 40k when i was 6, it was fun, me and my friends basically played toy soldiers with them and abused the rules, then they gave up but i explored the world and found how dark and grim it was and kept with it, now i enjoy lots of different parts of the hobby.
If GW get rid of the dark fluff, make it all too silly and light and get rid of the smaller intricate models then kids are gonna stop when they think it's all got too childish.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 19, 2014, 11:08:54 PM
Oh, grief. Big munstars and big hats and skullz and bonez for everyone!

Quote from: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 06:04:12 PM
I quite like the spirit host, but that's about it.

Quote from: Gibby on August 19, 2014, 06:07:41 PM
They have taken the Old World and turned it into Azeroth from World of Warcraft. Cartoony junk year after year.

This.

Shaking up the background a bit is kinda interesting, but the alternate universe business is kind of a copout, a bit like Storm of Chaos. And on that note, looks like Archaon's invasion is not just rewound to 'imminent', but also retconned to being stalled by all this new junk!
It's all meant to revamp and refresh Warhammer, but I think all the focus on 'death' and 'the end times' is more indicative of what's happening.

(And y'know, since we're dumping on the WoW aesthetic, I'm not so dazzled by the Shieldwall orcs either...  :` )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 20, 2014, 12:07:43 AM
Like others I quite like the ghosties but the rib cage full of skulls idea on the horses does not quite work for me.

Quote from: Cubs on August 19, 2014, 10:15:34 PM
All they've done is put giant hats on everything,


 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 20, 2014, 12:15:35 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 19, 2014, 11:05:25 PM
I think it'll cause a divide in the hobby.the big toy like kits and simple (or not) rules will bring in younger kids, who will either outgrow it in their teens because all the darker grittier stuff is gone , or parents will no  longer support the habit, or they'll be intimidated by the other parts of the hobby and see them as too advanced, give up and never go back to it.

I got into 40k when i was 6, it was fun, me and my friends basically played toy soldiers with them and abused the rules, then they gave up but i explored the world and found how dark and grim it was and kept with it, now i enjoy lots of different parts of the hobby.
If GW get rid of the dark fluff, make it all too silly and light and get rid of the smaller intricate models then kids are gonna stop when they think it's all got too childish.

IMO, and I think I've mentioned this before, kids around their early teens or just before get into GW games because of the grimdarkness. Granted, the minis have become chunkier and more OTT over time, but they're still all covered in spikes and skulls and severed heads and things. They look more grim, dangerous, and 'grown up' than what 11-12yos might've just grown out of.

You could make the argument that a vampire-ridden mechano-horse filled with skulls, scouring a dying world on the whim of it's genocidal master, is 'silly and light', but I don't know if you'd get much traction with it. :) I think you've nailed the right reaction but for the wrong reason: IMO the real turn-off is that we outgrew it because of the darker, grittier stuff. Not so light, but eventually recognised as a bit silly, rather than 'mature and grown up'. We stopped when we thought "it's all got too childish". ;)

I think it's well-circulated, or used to be, that GW makes their bread and butter from targeting kids (or their parents), and selling a starter set and a few unit boxes before that kid loses interest. So I agree with your first paragraph (though not with the 'not dark and gritty' reason), and agree that it's helping to kill GW right now.
I dunno what other distractions kids have these days, though I'd guess the fact that video games and that culture are apparently mainstream these days, while tabletop wargaming is still (generally) a 'sad nerd hobby', has a lot to do with it. In any case, GW's sales are falling so I'd hazard that major revenue source (if it be so) is petering out for some reason; so it seems they're stuck, chasing it even harder and investing more into what they think kids will like - big, chunky minis with superpowered, killy rules. And in that, exacerbating another issue that they've been indulging in for a while: the alienation of older gamers who still like the background and do most of their 'marketing' for them, but who no longer like the OTT aspects of it, who want less childish rules, and who scrutinise the price stickers a little more closely.

Heck, GW have even got loads of older fans who still love the OTT aspects and childish rules, but are just now starting to hesitate and peel away in the face of ratcheting prices. Even just a bit of recognition of that hard core, who stick to them like limpets rather than get bored and wander off, might stall their death spiral. Maybe.

TL;DR: if GW focused less on kids with desperate grimdarkness; dialled it all back a bit - maybe even with a little 'silly lightness'; and acknowledged that there are other age brackets with changed views and tastes, they could possibly see a way to dig themselves out of their hole. But at the mo the only way they can see is to dig deeper...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 20, 2014, 12:47:03 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 20, 2014, 12:15:35 AM
IMO, and I think I've mentioned this before, kids around their early teens or just before get into GW games because of the grimdarkness. Granted, the minis have become chunkier and more OTT over time, but they're still all covered in spikes and skulls and severed heads and things. They look more grim, dangerous, and 'grown up' than what 11-12yos might've just grown out of.

You could make the argument that a vampire-ridden mechano-horse filled with skulls, scouring a dying world on the whim of it's genocidal master, is 'silly and light', but I don't know if you'd get much traction with it. :) I think you've nailed the right reaction but for the wrong reason: IMO the real turn-off is that we outgrew it because of the darker, grittier stuff. Not so light, but eventually recognised as a bit silly, rather than 'mature and grown up'. We stopped when we thought "it's all got too childish". ;)

I think it's well-circulated, or used to be, that GW makes their bread and butter from targeting kids (or their parents), and selling a starter set and a few unit boxes before that kid loses interest. So I agree with your first paragraph (though not with the 'not dark and gritty' reason), and agree that it's helping to kill GW right now.
I dunno what other distractions kids have these days, though I'd guess the fact that video games and that culture are apparently mainstream these days, while tabletop wargaming is still (generally) a 'sad nerd hobby', has a lot to do with it. In any case, GW's sales are falling so I'd hazard that major revenue source (if it be so) is petering out for some reason; so it seems they're stuck, chasing it even harder and investing more into what they think kids will like - big, chunky minis with superpowered, killy rules. And in that, exacerbating another issue that they've been indulging in for a while: the alienation of older gamers who still like the background and do most of their 'marketing' for them, but who no longer like the OTT aspects of it, who want less childish rules, and who scrutinise the price stickers a little more closely.

Heck, GW have even got loads of older fans who still love the OTT aspects and childish rules, but are just now starting to hesitate and peel away in the face of ratcheting prices. Even just a bit of recognition of that hard core, who stick to them like limpets rather than get bored and wander off, might stall their death spiral. Maybe.

TL;DR: if GW focused less on kids with desperate grimdarkness; dialled it all back a bit - maybe even with a little 'silly lightness'; and acknowledged that there are other age brackets with changed views and tastes, they could possibly see a way to dig themselves out of their hole. But at the mo the only way they can see is to dig deeper...

Well as i say, i got into 40k very young, i enjoyed it for good guys fighting bad guys, then i got into the fluff and the older grimmer stuff and that kept me hooked.When i say light, i mean that these models wouldn't look too out of place in the he-man range, and the general idea of "skulls=evil" seems very much like a way to sell evil to kids without being really evil.

this kind of stuff leaves me cold because despite it being clear they have gone out of their way to show how uber evil these guys are, they're so overtly bad guy that it's comical. there's no malice behind the skeleton horse made of skulls, just bones.

(buy dark, i don't mean the always dark all of the time like alot of the rulebook fluff makes out, i mean the grittier older 2000ad style setting, where the funny little jokes made the dark even darker. these releases are like skeletor, so evil in a world of evil and darkness that they stop looking evil.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on August 20, 2014, 01:34:23 AM
Their used to be a Hefty dose of dark humour in GW's settings and models but thats largely gone now it seems. They almost seem like a parody of their former selves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 20, 2014, 04:30:55 AM
I was a bit disappointed with what I assume is the Arkhan the Black miniature riding a horse. I have the old mini of it and he used to be on a chariot. It was a pretty strange looking chariot with pieces of a dead manticore but the Arkhan mini was very nice and could be based by himself if you wished as well. Sigh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 20, 2014, 06:51:37 AM
Do you think they are trying to make them like the horsemen of the apocalypse? Four bad guys (one without a horse though)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 20, 2014, 07:14:48 AM
I really love the undead, and they're one of the very few armies I actually battled with.

I have a penchant for undead non-humans, and have skeleton doggies, an elephant, a rhino, skaven, a dwarf, a giant and a dinosaur.

However, I cannot understand why the balding gentleman with a very large blade in the first picture on the previous page of this topic is riding an undead mechagodzilla.
Can anyone help with this quandary, please?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 20, 2014, 08:06:10 AM
Um... GW fanboys love that stuff. It has skullz.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 20, 2014, 08:16:01 AM
One (other) thing that really turns me off from these new GW models is all the modeled "special effects" Souls, magic, fire, ice, smoke and what have you. That is damned hard to paint convincingly!

I mean everyone, even a 12 year old kid, can stab some paint on an Orc or a Skelleton an make it look halfway decent. But you have to be rather skilled to do these "special effects" that are on more and more models these days.

I blame computers for that!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 20, 2014, 10:03:34 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 20, 2014, 06:51:37 AM
Do you think they are trying to make them like the horsemen of the apocalypse? Four bad guys (one without a horse though)

That was my thinking as well.

Not thrilled with these really. I know GW stuff is supposed to be OTT, but these... Are way too much for me; in both money and design.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 20, 2014, 10:48:27 AM
Yep, the design is quite strange as well. The horses have exceedingly long tails and it looks like their ribcage extends up their neck.
Of all those new minis, nagash is the best of them  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 20, 2014, 11:25:04 AM
Nic-e: I do agree with you, especially in that cutting out the humour cuts out the appeal to older gamers. :) Though, like I say, all the extra grimdark that filled the gaps doesn't look sinister, badass and 'evil' to us.

Basically, this:

Quote from: beefcake on August 20, 2014, 08:06:10 AM
Um... GW fanboys love that stuff. It has skullz.

:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 20, 2014, 12:01:08 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on August 20, 2014, 08:16:01 AM
One (other) thing that really turns me off from these new GW models is all the modeled "special effects" Souls, magic, fire, ice, smoke and what have you. That is damned hard to paint convincingly!

I mean everyone, even a 12 year old kid, can stab some paint on an Orc or a Skelleton an make it look halfway decent. But you have to be rather skilled to do these "special effects" that are on more and more models these days.

I blame computers for that!!

Everyone who paints competitively now uses airbrushes, look at the golden demon winners from 10 years ago compared to today and you can see the shift. now  it's all smooth transitions on models with flat surfaces. Gw are modelling to this trend and brining out kits that are a ballache to paint without an airbrush.i suppose a model without character deserves a flat uninspired paintjob.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 20, 2014, 12:06:56 PM
That might be so.

But how does that fit in with their target audience being pre-teens and tenagers?

An airbrush is not exactly cheap to buy or easy to use. To me it looks like GW is trying to sit between two chairs.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 20, 2014, 12:47:42 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 20, 2014, 12:01:08 PM
Everyone who paints competitively now uses airbrushes, look at the golden demon winners from 10 years ago compared to today and you can see the shift. now  it's all smooth transitions on models with flat surfaces. Gw are modelling to this trend and brining out kits that are a ballache to paint without an airbrush.i suppose a model without character deserves a flat uninspired paintjob.

...Um, really? I don't see that; seems to me that yours is possibly a bit of a green-eyed statement.

Granted, some things are easier to do with an airbrush, but even the studio efforts are pretty much hand-painted (I'll let them off basecoating with a main colour though - since you can always buy a coloured spray primer yourself to achieve the same).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 20, 2014, 01:17:25 PM
Perhaps they are bringing out a new Gamesworkshop overpriced airbrush kit as well..?

Kiddies though - hey they will just use a bigger brush, much bigger. Just need a lot of purple and a few dabs of white don't it?

I think perhaps its been overlooked that this Nagash thing is completely new, old people and ex customers from way back in time that remember the previous version/s -  are dead/ceased to exist to GW...

Only the young innocent skull and grim/dark craving kiddies are alive to them. So its all shiny new...

Ooooh lets update undead, put in another layer of management make it "optional" for now, new  big big boss etc etc, no-one will remember it from years ago as all those customers from back then are gone, and we have the IP for the name already. redo the existing characters, up the price lots...Especially as we won't sell that many....

Next year there will be an even bigger big boss one, fully articulated with led lights in every eye-socket and a voice skull/button for choice snippets like:

"Thats not valid in the current codex, you need to get the new one", "I need more Skulls up my butt", "Colour me purple" etc.

Supplied unpainted, requires assembly, batteries not included, LEDs sold separately.

I am increasingly convinced its set in their skullpting software by default to include a minimum number of skulls on each model now - no option for none

- if they did a headless horseman of the Nagashaplypse it probably would have more heads to hold than arms... Skeletal heads of course.

Simple version:

 Do not want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 20, 2014, 02:21:09 PM
Isn't there already an overpriced GW airbrush set?

I seem to recall something about some faulty ones being withdrawn.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 20, 2014, 02:31:42 PM
Yes probably, but thats the 'old' version.

This would be 'new', made from the  broken pieces of the old withdrawn ones, washed in the tears of the disappointed, with suitable price hike.

Grimmer, darker.








Skullier....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 20, 2014, 06:21:10 PM
Sir, would you skully the good name of Games Workshop?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 20, 2014, 08:26:53 PM
Why of course not good sir, they have sufficient paid employees contracted to do just that already.

I most certainly would not wish to detract from or take work from such hard working staff.

They must work hard, as they produce so many.

Such skulduggery would be beneath even me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on August 21, 2014, 08:18:54 AM
(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/touts/2014-07-18/Scenery/HeaderCarousel/UltimaQuadrant_ProdSlide.jpg)

This is a mere £500, unpainted obviously.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 21, 2014, 08:22:47 AM
"Daddy, can I have that for my spehs mehrins?"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 21, 2014, 08:41:51 AM
But what is £500 really!? I mean you can only buy 25 Perry plastic box sets for that same amount.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 21, 2014, 08:49:49 AM
Or feed your family for a good amount of time on expensive steak and grey poupon.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 21, 2014, 08:54:12 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on August 21, 2014, 08:41:51 AM
But what is £500 really!?

Pfft, loose change my friend! I mean, you can barely sculpt on a computer (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=69990.0) for that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 21, 2014, 03:29:34 PM

I will await the closing down sales..

If its still in production and the price reduction sufficient and most importantly, I am still alive.

I may buy one. Or two.

But - that would buy a lot of grey poupon.... mmm poupon,  on everything, games workshop.

Oh, it would be a difficult choice !

:D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 21, 2014, 05:35:56 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 21, 2014, 03:29:34 PM
I will await the closing down sales..

Rumour has it that unsold Dreadfleet sets were recalled and destroyed rather than be sold at a reduction. More solid rumour has it that GW doesn't have any kind of sales because it would 'devalue' their brand.

When GW gasps it's last? I'd guess they'd sooner issue an order 66, implanted in each book and miniature, to self destruct (and take the owning gamer with it, if possible) rather than leave evidence they existed, let alone admit failure with a closing-down sale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 21, 2014, 05:38:30 PM
Thanks Vermis, the thought of all my toy soldiers coming to life at night and climbing out of their boxes to KILL ME is going to give me the heebie jeebies for ages...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 21, 2014, 09:30:22 PM
To be honest, I expect them to live in denial until everything goes pear-shaped in a BIG hurry (best guess would be a really atrocious profits/losses report, or a really atrocious profits/losses report after two or three pretty bad ones). Fire sales won't even be an option because events will be moving too fast. If say, the stock craters over the space of a few days, then it's more likely that a big player will swoop in and snap the company up. Even if you gutted the place and shuttered the minis lines, IP is still worth loads in the right hands. There's a very good chance that it will all happen with surprising speed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 22, 2014, 07:30:02 AM
But that is not very likely to happen for a long time.

The company is still making money even if it is not as much as they used to they are still far far away from being in the red.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 22, 2014, 07:49:14 AM
True, but it's not just making insufficient money that could scuttle GW. Shareholder behaviour/stock market can also do it. If they lose faith and start dumping shares, GW could be over in a matter of weeks.
And the shareholders have already encountered a profit warning last year and the "my shit smells like daisies"-rant in this years report...   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fred on August 22, 2014, 08:06:01 AM
It's also their ability to service their debt that is very important. Big companies tend to have big debts from raising money to pay for expansion. If the owners of that debt start to get nervous about the future ability to be paid, then things get sticky quickly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 22, 2014, 10:08:29 AM
That's exactly why existing companies use Kickstarter - getting cash for expansions in advance makes the world a much safer place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 22, 2014, 12:28:50 PM
True, but for GW doing a Kickstarter isn't an option, as the whole concept is built around consumer input and empowerment. Two things GW considers anathema.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 22, 2014, 12:35:44 PM
Quote from: Modhail on August 22, 2014, 12:28:50 PM
True, but for GW doing a Kickstarter isn't an option, as the whole concept is built around consumer input and empowerment. Two things GW considers anathema.

I know - and isn't that exactly where they are failing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 22, 2014, 12:44:16 PM
Quote from: Modhail on August 22, 2014, 12:28:50 PM
[...] GW doing a Kickstarter isn't an option [...]

Oof... Can you imagine their comments feed?

People would be pledging $1 just to post vitriol... And at the volume of pledges they'd likely get at that level alone, I reckon the KS might even fund without actually having any pledges to fulfil!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 22, 2014, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on August 22, 2014, 07:30:02 AM
But that is not very likely to happen for a long time.

The company is still making money even if it is not as much as they used to they are still far far away from being in the red.

I think it's been mentioned back in the mists of time in this thread, but the same could've been said of TSR.

One of the signs of that collapse that stuck in my mind, was the increasing rapidity of releases. With GW, this week: the Grey Knights codex, two weeks after the Space Wolves codex. Even 40K fans are scratching their heads.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 22, 2014, 01:50:25 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 22, 2014, 12:58:27 PM
With GW, this week: the Grey Knights codex, two weeks after the Space Wolves codex. Even 40K fans are scratching their heads.

To be fair, if the aim is to update all army books for 7E, GK are pretty easy to do since they have lots of Space Marines in 7E to draw from already.

After that you have... Blood Angels, Necrons and Dark Eldar? Not much really, considering that 7E has just be released, so I am left wondering what they are planning next.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 22, 2014, 03:31:21 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 22, 2014, 01:50:25 PM
To be fair, if the aim is to update all army books for 7E, GK are pretty easy to do since they have lots of Space Marines in 7E to draw from already.

After that you have... Blood Angels, Necrons and Dark Eldar? Not much really, considering that 7E has just be released, so I am left wondering what they are planning next.

8th Ed.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 22, 2014, 03:36:27 PM
Quote from: Argonor on August 22, 2014, 03:31:21 PM
8th Ed.  :D

Oh, you!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 22, 2014, 04:00:25 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 22, 2014, 01:50:25 PM
To be fair, if the aim is to update all army books for 7E, GK are pretty easy to do since they have lots of Space Marines in 7E to draw from already.

That's part of the problem: lots of Space Marines. From what I've heard they've stripped out all inquisition, ecclesiarchy and other auxiliary units from the list.

And what Argonor said. :D It's difficult to see what they'll try, otherwise. More supplements? Campaign books?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 22, 2014, 04:04:41 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 22, 2014, 04:00:25 PM
It's difficult to see what they'll try, otherwise. More supplements? Campaign books?

Hmm, I don't get the impression that they've really been *that* much of a success... I might be wrong though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 22, 2014, 04:23:57 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 22, 2014, 12:58:27 PM
I think it's been mentioned back in the mists of time in this thread, but the same could've been said of TSR.

One of the signs of that collapse that stuck in my mind, was the increasing rapidity of releases. With GW, this week: the Grey Knights codex, two weeks after the Space Wolves codex. Even 40K fans are scratching their heads.
Right. The company may have a technically-sound bottom line, but if the stock tanks (and it took a big hit already), all that matters is a bigger fish thinking that GW would be a good buy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 22, 2014, 04:50:08 PM
Start buying up stock now  o_o

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on August 22, 2014, 08:18:41 PM
Nagash preorder is up, he is way huger than I imagined:

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207023_Nagash02.jpg)

That looks like a 100mm base he is on.  Pricing aside, the thing is just too massive.  Why did they have to make him so huge? (Though his head seems the same size  ::) )

If money was no object, I would not buy it on the principal that I would have to assemble and paint that huge thing.  I like painting miniatures, not action figures.  Not to mention trying to transport it.  I don't see why they would not just make him half the size and maybe 2/3 the current price or something.  That would almost seem reasonable.

It looks like you get a lot for the campaign book, though who knows what the quality of the ~300 page fluff book will be.  Maybe there should be a contest to guess the number of times the word "skull" is mentioned in the book?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 22, 2014, 08:21:50 PM
Uhhhhhh....  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on August 22, 2014, 08:22:09 PM
Yeah I don't know where I would put that thing even if I wanted it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on August 22, 2014, 08:41:59 PM
Someone forgot to tell the factory that it was a 3-up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 22, 2014, 09:03:39 PM
 lol
Imagine tryin to read, let alone lift one of those books.
That thing must be at least 5 times as big as the previous Nagash version, maybe you could buy his head and put it on the old version and they might balance out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 22, 2014, 11:46:55 PM
Yes if ever there was a case for a head swap here it is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 23, 2014, 04:09:31 AM
Quote from: Dolmot on August 22, 2014, 08:41:59 PM
Someone forgot to tell the factory that it was a 3-up.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 23, 2014, 04:32:40 AM
Imagine the actual 3-up for that  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 23, 2014, 06:44:05 AM
Quote from: carlos13th on August 22, 2014, 08:22:09 PM
Yeah I don't know where I would put that thing even if I wanted it.

I have a good idea where GW could put it ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 23, 2014, 12:45:53 PM
It's a real shame, the idea has soooo much potential. The idea if him riding on spirits looks great! It's just way too big and he has no sense of movement or forbodding!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 23, 2014, 05:56:22 PM
LoL
And now Nagash is sold out from GW!!  ;D
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Nagash
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 23, 2014, 06:09:17 PM
Thats disheartening......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 23, 2014, 06:12:53 PM
You... you mean people bought it :o ....like, voluntarily?  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 23, 2014, 06:54:12 PM
Maybe there were only ten for sale  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 23, 2014, 06:57:23 PM
If the box matches the model sizewise, ten would about fill the allotted warehouse space... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Donpimpom on August 23, 2014, 07:39:40 PM
sorry mates, but I would say none of you realize the truly potential of this model as spooky desk lamp if painted with glowing paint ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 23, 2014, 08:13:21 PM
Well there's no accounting for taste I guess. Plenty of loyal GW fans left out there yet if this thing selling out is anything to go by.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 23, 2014, 08:44:53 PM
All i see is the lore of I death sold out at £4.50
I think the limited edition book is limited to 750 books and looks to still be available.  ???
Really don't like GWs choice of making maxiatures. What happened to being able to take your whole army around in a small box?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on August 23, 2014, 10:57:45 PM
The Nagash model is a joke. It is a new low (or should that be high?) in GW's silly push towards large models for the sake of being able to charge their daft prices. They seem to have been in a creative rut for so long now that I am well past the stage of wanting any of their products, and it isn't just the prices that put me off now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 23, 2014, 11:08:39 PM
Quote from: Andym on August 23, 2014, 12:45:53 PM
It's a real shame, the idea has soooo much potential. The idea if him riding on spirits looks great! It's just way too big and he has no sense of movement or forbodding!

With you - it's a technically amazing plastic model, but it feels soulless (if you'll pardon the pun).

I do like the ghosts/spirit host from this new release, so I will pick some up for my undead army.  The rest... nah.

I believe it's a common publishing trick to do small print runs and then say, truthfully, that you've sold out and you're having to reprint.  Apparently D&D 4th Edition only covered pre-orders with their first printing, so they were onto their second print run as soon as it was released (with the attendant hype).

So I call bullshit on GW - it's a cheap marketing trick.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 24, 2014, 12:24:02 AM
Quote from: Donpimpom on August 23, 2014, 07:39:40 PM
sorry mates, but I would say none of you realize the truly potential of this model as spooky desk lamp if painted with glowing paint ;D

Holy fuck that's the best thing i've heard about this kit. could replace the staff with tritium rods aswell.(which would be great for a necron army if it didn't involve making radioactive dust when cutting it.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on August 25, 2014, 01:45:58 AM
It seems that this GW release has not gone unnoticed by their competitors.  Coincidence?

(http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/siteimages/Unknown.jpeg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 25, 2014, 01:50:15 AM
Quote from: Timbor on August 25, 2014, 01:45:58 AM
It seems that this GW release has not gone unnoticed by their competitors.  Coincidence?

(http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/siteimages/Unknown.jpeg)

You can't argue with the value.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 25, 2014, 02:11:48 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 25, 2014, 01:50:15 AM
You can't argue with the value.

or the Quality,these are nice  :-* Much better than the Spine is the new Skull sillyness  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on August 25, 2014, 02:19:49 AM
Imagine if Mantic came out with a not-Nagash model which was somewhat less garish and reasonably sized as well?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 25, 2014, 04:13:41 AM
Yep. That would be great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on August 25, 2014, 04:17:51 AM
I would laugh my tits off if they did and it sold really well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 25, 2014, 05:25:15 AM
Quote from: Timbor on August 25, 2014, 02:19:49 AM
Imagine if Mantic came out with a not-Nagash model which was somewhat less garish and reasonably sized as well?

And they shall call him: Shagan. He will be large, but not huge. His shoulder pads will be emphasized and pointy, and yet not ridiculous. He will have a skull, bare and in proportion to his body.

This is the prophesy!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 25, 2014, 06:50:18 AM
I'd buy one, just to spite GW  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on August 25, 2014, 07:02:35 AM
Those books are huge!!!  :o

I thought they were supposed to be regular spell books...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on August 25, 2014, 07:12:06 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on August 23, 2014, 11:08:39 PM
Apparently D&D 4th Edition only covered pre-orders with their first printing, so they were onto their second print run as soon as it was released (with the attendant hype).

D&D 5th edition Players book printing didn't even cover all the pre-orders it seems...


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 25, 2014, 11:37:00 AM
Gotta love Mantic's brass neck!  And the undead plastics are the best range they make - really characterful models.

Quote from: pocoloco on August 25, 2014, 07:12:06 AM
D&D 5th edition Players book printing didn't even cover all the pre-orders it seems...

True - Amazon have pushed the dispatch estimate on mine back  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 25, 2014, 11:43:10 AM
I actually like GW's skeletons better than the Mantic ones, they somehow just look a bit "off" to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 25, 2014, 01:41:25 PM
Well, if one prefers the 'classic' style, these are something to aim for:

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/webstore/myths-and-legends/wgf-ml002
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 25, 2014, 01:43:52 PM
Yes those are nice as well. However they are a pain in th **s to assemble. I put one of them together and decided I liked my sanity more, so the rest of the box will be used as decorations for scenery.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 25, 2014, 02:25:32 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on August 25, 2014, 01:43:52 PM
Yes those are nice as well. However they are a pain in th **s to assemble. I put one of them together and decided I liked my sanity more, so the rest of the box will be used as decorations for scenery.

Haven't seen them in the flesh, but I do remember havng read that each one is assembled from 8 pieces - which is a bit much.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 25, 2014, 03:28:41 PM
Quote from: Argonor on August 25, 2014, 02:25:32 PM
Haven't seen them in the flesh, but I do remember havng read that each one is assembled from 8 pieces - which is a bit much.  lol

They reworked them, they're actually 5 pieces plus weapons now.

If mantic did release a big but not huge necromancer, it would make sense for it to be less ostentatious since large units with a big footprint are just big targets in Kings of war.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 25, 2014, 08:50:49 PM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 25, 2014, 02:11:48 AM
or the Quality,these are nice  :-* Much better than the Spine is the new Skull sillyness  :-X

I... Don't really like the Mantic Undead all that much, and I feel that their Skellies are amongst the worst of their Undead plastics.

Quote from: Argonor on August 25, 2014, 01:41:25 PM
Well, if one prefers the 'classic' style, these are something to aim for:

(http://www.wargamesfactory.com/Images/ProductImages/boxsets/skeletonwarriors/Skeletons100_1931.JPG)

The Wargames Factory ones are the worst IMO - just look at the picture above! Who has a ribcage that goes around the spine like that?! And that's before you consider their spindliness.

I think that if Andy at Heresy ever gets around to it, his Skellies have the potential to be the "best" IMO:

(http://www.heresyminiatures.com/images/wip/skeleton_3up_wip_september2012_2.jpg)

As for an alternative Nagash, I found this 54mm model that might suit from Andrea Miniatures:

(http://www.andreaeurope.com/fotos/andrea/Warlord-Saga/detallegran/WS-010-01.jpg)

Pricey at 28 Euros, but I think it's rather nice and a better size.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 25, 2014, 09:00:26 PM
The above alternative looks great  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 25, 2014, 09:24:25 PM
Aye, it does.  :o And aye, the WGF skellies don't. Strewth, it's like the old WGF standard of sculpting one side of a torso and just mirroring it.

I'm waiting patiently for both Andy's plastic skellies and troopers. The current kickstarter makes me hopeful about their success.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 25, 2014, 09:31:31 PM
I love the Mantic skellies!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on August 25, 2014, 10:08:58 PM
Yeah I am a fan of most of the mantic undead including their skeletons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 26, 2014, 12:22:23 AM
I just find the Mantic skellies rather goofy-looking - considering the comments levelled at GW in this forum, I personally find that somewhat ironic!

The rest of the Mantic undead is generally better though, especially the ghouls.

The current GW skellies are okay in-hand. I think they look less stylised than the Mantic ones in many ways, but there we go.

I do think that the first company to make really nice-looking cheap plastic skeletons will do very well out of them, and I wouldn't mind if it was Heresy Miniatures either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 26, 2014, 07:19:52 AM
I went as far as to favourite the Andrea miniatures "nagash" the the computer broke down, had to get a new one and promptly forgot about it. Tempting me again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pijlie on August 26, 2014, 07:45:16 AM
We have to admit that discussing animated skeletons and dismissing some for anatomical shortcomings at the same time is rather funny though.... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 26, 2014, 08:38:39 AM
Quote from: Pijlie on August 26, 2014, 07:45:16 AM
We have to admit that discussing animated skeletons and dismissing some for anatomical shortcomings at the same time is rather funny though.... lol

Well, sort of! I'm not sure that magical animation suddenly excuses them from looking mostly right though - bad sculpting is bad sculpting and I will call it out.

What bothers me about the Mantic ones is (1) they are *very* obviously fantasy and cannot easily be used for anything other setting, and (2) their skull looks weird. Example of what I mean below.

Normal skull:
(http://images.clipartpanda.com/skull-clip-art-skull-clipart-3.png)

Mantic style skull:
(http://us.123rf.com/450wm/hatza/hatza1305/hatza130500139/19843273-cartoon-skull.jpg)

I guess it makes them look more "evil", but then they are skeletons; and what good wizard would raise skeletons?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 26, 2014, 08:47:04 AM
Ewe lol if you are doing an elderscrolls mini game you could possibly have good wizards using skeletons. The dunmer use them quite regularly.  ;) but yeah generally bad guy use which is fine by me.
I like the mantic ones because they actually look as if they were part of an army before being raised from the dead, not just: raised up, found my skull faced shield and my bat hilted sword, off a chopping I go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 26, 2014, 09:10:38 AM
Mantic skellies are none the worse for being stylised - I get an Army of Darkness vibe off them.

If we judged all our models on anatomical correctness, how many lines of bobble-headed, pineapple-fisted gorillas would we be discounting?  And I say that with the greatest affection  :)

Having said that, the GW ones are really good, with some great freatures like caved-in skulls.  They manage to avoid a number of pitfalls seen in older models, like a massive round head on the upper arm bone where the arm pegs onto the body.  No, I'm not being humerus...  ;)

That Andrea model... :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 26, 2014, 09:22:05 AM
@ beefcake:

Agreed, but that's my point about the current GW ones: they don't have brand new-looking skull-emblem painted shields.

And if there were the Counts' army in life (especially the Grave Guard), would it be so weird that they would have their masters' sigils and iconography before they are dead and buried with their equipment?


@ Momotaro :

I'm not too keen on the bobble-headed pineapple-fisted gorilla look either.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 26, 2014, 09:40:49 AM
Looks like this is a good time for me to flog off the small pile of old GW plastic skells in a tub on my shelf.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 26, 2014, 10:26:50 AM
Quote from: Cubs on August 26, 2014, 09:40:49 AM
Looks like this is a good time for me to flog off the small pile of old GW plastic skells in a tub on my shelf.

The original plastic ones? I'm just now rebasing a horde of those (bought second hand many years ago) to use in God of Battles.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: carlos13th on August 26, 2014, 10:59:32 AM
I quite like the Mantic skeletons but I can see why someone would prefer more anatomically correct eye sockets on them. As ever it comes down to personal taste.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 26, 2014, 11:23:37 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 26, 2014, 08:38:39 AM
Well, sort of! I'm not sure that magical animation suddenly excuses them from looking mostly right though - bad sculpting is bad sculpting and I will call it out.

That. I've never taken 'a wizard did it' as a good excuse for rubbish-looking minis and painfully obvious gaffes.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 26, 2014, 09:22:05 AM
I'm not too keen on the bobble-headed pineapple-fisted gorilla look either.  :?

That too. :D Two wrongs etc. etc.

GW vs. Mantic skellies... I'm undecided. I prefer the better looks of the actual bones on GW's (I won't handwave 'a necromancer did it' for making ossified calcium carbonate frown! Plus, I find the blank automaton look more eerie than "ooh look at me eyebrows") but I'm really not fond of all the skullz and batwings everywhere.
I guess those are more easily modified (i.e. chopped orf) than Mantic's though.

That, or wait for Andy Foster's. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on August 26, 2014, 01:13:49 PM
Well, on that note, the gw models are easily assembled without the skulls (well aprt from the obviously needed skulls) and bat wings. You just have to pick the right bits.

This unit was almost straith out of the box, with only conversions on the champion and musician (they do only give you weird skully horns as instruments though)

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/Sgt_Kontkop/P3180088_zpsd0771bf2.jpg)

Same goes for this unit. Again only weird necro horn replaced.

(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd318/Sgt_Kontkop/P3180096_zpsa1c76b31.jpg)

I think these are generic enough. Not to over the top.

I do like the matic cartoony look, just wasn't what I wanted.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 26, 2014, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 26, 2014, 11:23:37 AM
That. I've never taken 'a wizard did it' as a good excuse for rubbish-looking minis and painfully obvious gaffes.

That too. :D Two wrongs etc. etc.

GW vs. Mantic skellies... I'm undecided. I prefer the better looks of the actual bones on GW's (I won't handwave 'a necromancer did it' for making ossified calcium carbonate frown! Plus, I find the blank automaton look more eerie than "ooh look at me eyebrows") but I'm really not fond of all the skullz and batwings everywhere.

Whereas I like a stylised mini done well, and I love Mantic's skellies,  The frown gives them a dash of character that I find lacking in GW's.  Whereas I find GW's ghouls a little cartoony and Mantic's are just right for me (minus all the nails).

And I don't think stylising a mini to look good on the table is either rubbish-looking or a gaffe.  Super-deformed or Chibi-style minis, anime-style giant swords, he-man musculature on Thrud the Barbarian and Big Boris - bring 'em on!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 26, 2014, 05:56:00 PM
Ta Voivod!

Quote from: Momotaro on August 26, 2014, 03:21:20 PM
stylising a mini to look good on the table

Well there's the old chestnut about subjectivity, and just what looks good to different people, which I think a bit overused to defend funky-looking stuff, but I'll doff my cap to it and to you. And IMO decent sculpting, let alone stylisation, is a tough act to pull off for more than a few mini sculptors and producers. (I'll point to most of the rest of Mantic's KoW range; and the ol' bobble-bob square-fists trope)

Quote
rubbish-looking or a gaffe.

Well, I was still thinking of the WGF rather than Mantic skellies in that case. I hadn't seen them from that angle before and I still can't believe it. I don't consider ribs that wrap right round the spine and join together at the back to be a worthy and (even partially) successful stylistic choice, but a rubbish-looking gaffe...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 26, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
Ah, don't get me started on Mantic's other ranges; I got a sprue of their goblin bowmen at Partizan a couple of years back, and it's the only model sprue I've put straight in the recycling.  For every lovely figure they make, they seem to do one "meh" model and another "WTF is this???" figure.  They're a very frustrating company to follow...

And I do take your point about accuracy - I've been wrestling with some of the WGF orcs and every single one looks subtly "wrong".  So funnily enough, given the context of this thread, it's back to GW Uruk scouts for me.  Got loads of WGF weapons to tart them up with now  ;)  Not everyone can make Hasslefree-quality figures.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 26, 2014, 08:10:39 PM
I feel I came across a bit harsh in my last post, even though I tried backing down. (No really) So I'll add that I'm waiting for my wolf anti-paladin from Andrew May's Tooth and Sword KS, and I've still got a couple of Heresy Thruds about here somewhere, including the LE large scale resin one. :D

I don't really despise the Mantic skeleton eyebrows either; I just don't prefer them. Although I do hope Mantic would take some of the quality of those - and that of the Deadzone stuff - and apply it if they ever revisit KoW.

I'd like to like WGF's Orcs too, but they have that look of 'old WGF' about them, when digital sculpting and 3D printing were kewl and new but still working out the teething troubles. All that intricately defined musculature in the renders, smoothed out by scale problems, the printing process, injection moulds etc. looks a bit like lumpy tumours in the actual minis. Which might be alright for a certain interpretation of orcs, and not entirely bad, but not what I'm looking for as the norm. (Funny enough, I quite like the Hobbit goblin-town gobbos, but as mutants rather than gobbos)
And Lego hands. Not fond of Lego hands on minis.

So to steer somewhere back on-topic, ironically the only other place I can think of to get non-GW green-gorilla orcs is GW. And they're not too badly-priced, considering.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 26, 2014, 09:08:41 PM
On the contrary, I don't think you were harsh at all.  A lot of these matters come down to taste and you've done well to say why you like or dislike models.  Apologies if I came across as a little red in the face too.

Agree about the Mantic KoW stuff - a lot of what came out of the Kickstarter was restic and had some weird anatomy going on.  I like their trolls, but only above the waist.  What's with the little stumpy legs?

I've been prepping some Hasslefree models tonight - Ekaterina (OK, Lady Gaga), Andreah the space pirate and a few others.  They're just flawless minis, beautiful sculpting/casting and both exciting and daunting to think about painting.

But I'm also working on some Four A dwarfs - classic bowling ball on feet with big heads and exaggerated features.  It's going to be a joy to paint the little angry faces and gritted teeth.  And long may there be a choice.

And cleaving back to GW again - their LotR models are just lovely, but we're back to pricing, aren't we?  I'm still really looking forward to the Battle of the Five Armies models, and I've come close to starting Mirkwood elf and hunter orc warbands...  

I use the Goblin Town gobboes as skaven slaves - they have that air about them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 26, 2014, 09:08:59 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 26, 2014, 08:10:39 PM

I'd like to like WGF's Orcs too, but they have that look of 'old WGF' about them, when digital sculpting and 3D printing were kewl and new but still working out the teething troubles. All that intricately defined musculature in the renders, smoothed out by scale problems, the printing process, injection moulds etc. looks a bit like lumpy tumours in the actual minis. Which might be alright for a certain interpretation of orcs, and not entirely bad, but not what I'm looking for as the norm. (Funny enough, I quite like the Hobbit goblin-town gobbos, but as mutants rather than gobbos)
And Lego hands. Not fond of Lego hands on minis.

I'm painting some early WGF figures now, kind of painful after doing the samurai and AWI ranges. I call them 'Playmobil hands' :)
I have some WGF skellies (I think first gen before the redo) but I've not inspected them close. Never noticed the spine issue :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 26, 2014, 09:14:58 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on August 26, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
Ah, don't get me started on Mantic's other ranges; I got a sprue of their goblin bowmen at Partizan a couple of years back, and it's the only model sprue I've put straight in the recycling.  For every lovely figure they make, they seem to do one "meh" model and another "WTF is this???" figure.  They're a very frustrating company to follow...

Their Werewolves look like big burly mutated bodybuilding contestants with wolf masks on. Terrible figures! The worst Werewolves I've ever seen!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 26, 2014, 10:36:58 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on August 26, 2014, 09:08:59 PM
I'm painting some early WGF figures now, kind of painful after doing the samurai and AWI ranges. I call them 'Playmobil hands' :)
I have some WGF skellies (I think first gen before the redo) but I've not inspected them close. Never noticed the spine issue :P

The newer ones don't have the spine issue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 27, 2014, 01:04:20 AM
Fairy nuff.

Can't get my head round Mantic trolls either, and I wonder if it was Rackham who popularised the 12-foot-tall werewolf trope, or did it come about earlier?

On GW: I went for a proper look at the Hobbit minis, and maybe it's the blown-up photo, but... ouch.

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99801499016_GollumwithFishNEW01.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 27, 2014, 01:17:30 AM
 :o :o Not wondering there is no 360° View for that one  >:D Not Gollum holding not Fish

also the Guy next to him looks more like early Mantic Stuff than high Quality GW

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99801462030_NarzugNEW01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 27, 2014, 01:55:58 AM
I don't really like the faux-native-american look of the Hobbit hunter orcs, and the recent GW painting style of boxy highlights don't help, IMO. It makes me appreciate the older plastics even more. Now the hobby butterfly is whispering at me to buy a load...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 27, 2014, 09:24:21 AM
Oh my. Surely, that can't be the work of a Perry?  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 27, 2014, 10:13:52 AM
No way.

Just ... no way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 27, 2014, 10:38:23 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 27, 2014, 01:04:20 AM
(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99801499016_GollumwithFishNEW01.jpg)

You can clearly see how the amazing wonder-material that is failcrap has really helped to preserve the fine detailing of the chunky paddle-hands and faithfully captured the nuanced facial expression of the original sculpt. Truly, this model and it's medium are a marvel of the current golden age of miniatures that we are lucky enough to be experiencing!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 27, 2014, 12:09:27 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 27, 2014, 01:04:20 AM


(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99801499016_GollumwithFishNEW01.jpg)



ALL PRAISE THE FISH!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on August 27, 2014, 02:49:37 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on August 23, 2014, 11:08:39 PM
With you - it's a technically amazing plastic model, but it feels soulless (if you'll pardon the pun).

That nails it on the head. Technically great but no spirit to it. Its the antithesis of something from Andy at Heresy or a Hasslefree fig.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 27, 2014, 10:25:40 PM
I had a lot of fun assembling the skeleton horde plastics when I was a kid.
But now I am going with some nightmare legion metals I got off ebay. they will do nicely for spell effects.

Has anyone tried the ebob bendy metal skellies? I imagine they would be quite good anatomically.
But for that sort of thing I agree with other posters that the Heresy plastic ones could blow away the competition if tand when they get made.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 28, 2014, 04:29:58 PM
You know what, I at least can respect the fact that Nagash isn't another one of those multi options sets. Could you imagine what that model could double as with a different head and staff? Cause I kind of don't want to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 28, 2014, 04:37:15 PM
Quote from: YPU on August 28, 2014, 04:29:58 PM
You know what, I at least can respect the fact that Nagash isn't another one of those multi options sets. Could you imagine what that model could double as with a different head and staff? Cause I kind of don't want to.

With a robot head and a different staff, maybe he could be a terrible great Necron character too?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 28, 2014, 04:42:13 PM
Actually I could live with that. The whole soules sculpt might kinda work then.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on August 29, 2014, 11:02:31 AM
Is it me - or has Games Day just been transformd into 'Warhammer Fest'

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-Fest-Sunday-Adult?utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_campaign=75a372d859-Warhammer_Fest_Newsletter2_Friday_29_08_14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-75a372d859-114281441
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 29, 2014, 11:59:14 PM
Quote from: v_lazy_dragon on August 29, 2014, 11:02:31 AM
Is it me - or has Games Day just been transformd into 'Warhammer Fest'

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-Fest-Sunday-Adult?utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_campaign=75a372d859-Warhammer_Fest_Newsletter2_Friday_29_08_14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-75a372d859-114281441

Yup, it was changed quietly a little while ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fastolfrus on August 30, 2014, 09:36:33 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 27, 2014, 01:55:58 AM
I don't really like the faux-native-american look of the Hobbit hunter orcs, and the recent GW painting style of boxy highlights don't help, IMO. It makes me appreciate the older plastics even more. Now the hobby butterfly is whispering at me to buy a load...

At first glance I thought that was a figure in bronze armour....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 30, 2014, 07:33:22 PM
Someone mentioned the four horsemen of the apocalypse some pages back - looks like they weren't far off - link (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Conclave-of-Death)

£144.00 for 3 plastic models (or £48.00 each, providing the usual bulk buying discount).

Together with Nagash, over £200  :o - the End Times indeed :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fastolfrus on August 30, 2014, 08:40:11 PM
£48 per figure! Who would ever dare play with them?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on August 30, 2014, 11:18:01 PM
Everyone still hooked on the drug.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on August 30, 2014, 11:18:58 PM
(We on LAF more enjoying the cocktail this hobby can give us.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 30, 2014, 11:27:36 PM
Wow, that's like $290!!! Insane. Just ... insane!

I was at the mall today, and didn't even wander past the GW store. What point would there have been? None. I guess I have truly stopped the GW habit, because I'm not even curious about them anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 30, 2014, 11:31:57 PM
Quote from: grant on August 30, 2014, 11:27:36 PM
Wow, that's like $290!!! Insane. Just ... insane!

I was at the mall today, and didn't even wander past the GW store. What point would there have been? None. I guess I have truly stopped the GW habit, because I'm not even curious about them anymore.

I know that feel.
I often look into the window of my local GW and see the lonely new manager i don't know too well sat there painting in an empty store and think i should get that new thing i want, then i remember there isn't a new think i want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on August 30, 2014, 11:58:29 PM
Original versions are so full of charm and character too. These new ones are really sad.  :'( Especially like the old Arkhan The Black.

(http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics13/img49df47ffb977c.jpg)
(http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/img3d480d568ea19.jpg)
(http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics10/img440d7b4a6de4b.jpg)

(edit - pics "stolen" from cool mini or not. Not sure who they're painted by. Just googled them and chose the best example of each. Just coincidence that they were all cool mini or not.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 31, 2014, 12:11:31 AM
I've heard a theory that GW is actually going to blow up WFB in spectacular fashion (hence this END TIMESSSS nonsense) for a little "big event hype" and then convert WFB to a skirmish game in order to compete more directly with Warmahordes.

I don't know if I believe it, but it's certainly stupid enough to be plausibly GW  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 31, 2014, 12:15:38 AM
Also a reply from elsewhere:

Quote from: Conquistador on August 30, 2014, 11:59:33 PM
They don't want money from females?  Why?  Cooties?

 ;)

Gracias,

Glenn



You've got me! I have no idea.

GW has few female figures in it's lines, even accounting for cheesecake. The only female-centred army they have (Sororitas) has been mothballed for ages. It's almost like they're afraid of them.

Pimply teen boys are buying "Girls Giggles & Garters" (well, okay, we have the internet now) and crowing about having seen boobies. Cheesecake is an easy winner here.

If there's a demographic that's still afraid of women, barricaded in clubhouses, behind "NO GURLS ALOUD!" signs, it's small boys in short pants. Hence my mockery of GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 31, 2014, 12:17:24 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 31, 2014, 12:11:31 AM
I've heard a theory that GW is actually going to blow up WFB in spectacular fashion (hence this END TIMESSSS nonsense) for a little "big event hype" and then convert WFB to a skirmish game in order to compete more directly with Warmahordes.

I don't know if I believe it, but it's certainly stupid enough to be plausibly GW  ::)

There was a theory floating around a while ago that GW were gonna convert fantasy into a skirmish game using only a couple of troops blocks and a hero, but that was a while ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 31, 2014, 12:21:00 AM
.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 31, 2014, 12:39:36 AM
Quote from: grant on August 31, 2014, 12:21:00 AM
You know, if they actually did that, and Warhammer Fantasy was taken back to 4th or 5th edition, before the million-man-madness, I would maybe even consider playing again. Oldhammer has great appeal to me.

Why not just play the earlier editions ? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 31, 2014, 12:44:40 AM
.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 31, 2014, 12:44:50 AM
You boys are bad!

I have just gone for a stroll around the GW website after reading this and it is....awful!
That Dwarf in a 'cardboard box toy boat thing' was just laughable.
 ::)

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/High-King-Thorgrim-Grudgebearer


Sad.
I have such fonds memories of the GW Dwarf range.
 :'( :'(

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 31, 2014, 01:26:19 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 31, 2014, 12:39:36 AM
Why not just play the earlier editions ? :)


That's what I'm doing. Going with 6th edition. Got the rulebook + ravening hordes. Enough for me, combined with Warhammer Skirmish. Yay!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 31, 2014, 01:46:18 AM
I've heard the 9th ed skirmish rumour too, round bases an' all, but I'll wait to see what GW actually do.

Quote from: nic-e on August 30, 2014, 11:31:57 PM
I know that feel.
I often look into the window of my local GW and see the lonely new manager i don't know too well sat there painting in an empty store and think i should get that new thing i want, then i remember there isn't a new think i want.

Thirded. Except GW Belfast still seems to be doing fairly well. Anyways, these days I generally only go in for some little thing, once in a blue moon - an occasional Black Library paperback especially, or a pot of some specific paint colour, maybe even a WD Weekly. Never minis these days, though. Most of the time I think the same as you two - 'there's nothing I want. I'm just not interested'. (Having said that, couple of days ago I checked what LotR Orcs they had in stock  :-X )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 31, 2014, 02:56:58 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 31, 2014, 01:46:18 AM
I've heard the 9th ed skirmish rumour too, round bases an' all, but I'll wait to see what GW actually do.

Thirded. Except GW Belfast still seems to be doing fairly well. Anyways, these days I generally only go in for some little thing, once in a blue moon - an occasional Black Library paperback especially, or a pot of some specific paint colour, maybe even a WD Weekly. Never minis these days, though. Most of the time I think the same as you two - 'there's nothing I want. I'm just not interested'. (Having said that, couple of days ago I checked what LotR Orcs they had in stock  :-X )

GW Leicester is closed Monday and Tuesday.I can understand during work time, but they were closed during the school holidays and i saw kids looking in the window wanting to buy stuff on several occasions, so they're actually loosing custom in the holidays then sitting there open and empty in term time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 31, 2014, 03:47:33 AM
I can't imagine they would change it to skirmish. No more spending big bucks on getting whole units. It just doesn't make sense for them to do it with their current idea of wargaming(which is why they will do it). I think it would be great but wasn't that Mordheim for you? Warhammer skirmish.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 31, 2014, 03:54:13 AM
.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 31, 2014, 07:12:28 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 27, 2014, 01:55:58 AM
I don't really like the faux-native-american look of the Hobbit hunter orcs, and the recent GW painting style of boxy highlights don't help, IMO. It makes me appreciate the older plastics even more. Now the hobby butterfly is whispering at me to buy a load...

I bought some to use as ratskins for necromunda, lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 31, 2014, 07:22:05 AM
I got my wife to pop in for me yesterday to get some inks and she was ignored until the manager came back from lunch (admittedly it was only for a minute or two). She was stood at the front desk with the names of the inks on her phone and the staff kept on playing   :?

Two possible reasons, first is that she was a woman (but I doubt that reason somewhat) or second, she isn't the demographic that the staff have been told to interact with.

Maybe a combination of the two. But seriously, you don't leave potential customers hanging  :-[

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 31, 2014, 09:10:45 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 31, 2014, 07:22:05 AM

Maybe a combination of the two. But seriously, you don't leave potential customers hanging  :-[


Absolutely.

Especially when you need them.

I have noticed, with the two GW stores I sometimes walk into (very rare now), the indifference or even lack of attention paid if you are not the "target market" eg teen boy, and accompanied by a suitable cash cow (parent).

I  don't want to be mobbed on entry, but if I pick something up or go to the till, I expect someone to put down the paintbrush and get over to me and take my money.

On a different note, I read the T&Cs for the warhammerfest nonsense, utterly unimpressed.

Obviously something is needed granted, but what they have put in there is just... off-putting.

Never been to one and wish to even less.

Rather attend real events with a broad spectrum that the gaming hobby provides, and buy things that are desirable, interesting and affordable.

On a complete change of thought again, just had to do some plumbing, and have a number of ribbed plastic piping joints, washers and other gubbings, and was thinking, rather than just bin them I could stick some skulls on it, paint it mostly purple and use it as a "not giant new Nagash"...?...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 31, 2014, 10:06:28 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 31, 2014, 07:22:05 AM
I got my wife to pop in for me yesterday to get some inks and she was ignored until the manager came back from lunch (admittedly it was only for a minute or two). She was stood at the front desk with the names of the inks on her phone and the staff kept on playing   :?

Two possible reasons, first is that she was a woman (but I doubt that reason somewhat) or second, she isn't the demographic that the staff have been told to interact with.

Maybe a combination of the two. But seriously, you don't leave potential customers hanging  :-[

cheers

James
Interestingly my wife had similar experience in the local independent store that opened up in our town.she want in twice , second time loudly saying to our 3 yr old daughter. What shall  we get daddy.and was never approached by manager .He carried on war gaming with teenagers so she walked out.i went past yesterday afternoon and it was empty.
I've been in gw cwmbran in Wales and managers seems alright , no hard sales. Where as hereford was the opposite.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 31, 2014, 10:48:05 AM
They hire for attitude, not experience as they say. If I was an investor and got ignored like that in a store when planning of buying things... Luckily I'm not.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 31, 2014, 11:10:58 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 31, 2014, 10:48:05 AM
They hire for attitude, not experience as they say.

Yes, and unfortunately it's the wrong sort of attitude  :?

I got to work at Games Day once when I was at the St Albans shop and got moved from what I was doing (looking after a star map of the 40k universe) and was put on to a game as it was short staffed.

Typical GW game, loud and fast moving, the 'GM' shouting (not in a bad way you understand) at the kids about the rules, who's turn it was, what the dice numbers were, the kids shouting back, being boistrous etc. Needless to say, I didn't partake in the shouting part and spoke to kids who asked questions in a normal voice and kept out of it for the most part.

I found out later that the GM complained about me as I wasn't doing what he was doing and I got a talking to by my 'manager'.

What an utter crock  ::)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 31, 2014, 02:05:17 PM
Hhhmmmm, I've once seen/heard/experienced a demo like that at a GW store. It was back when I hadn't yet lost the rose-tinted glasses concerning GW, but even then I thought it was an asinine way to "explain" the game.
That and the general atmosphere and pushy selling is why, now my son is getting interested in wargaming, I'm not letting him near a GW store!
I need to show him the full breath and wealth of wargaming before exposing him to "the Hobby"©®™, etc....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 31, 2014, 02:20:40 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on August 31, 2014, 07:12:28 AM
I bought some to use as ratskins for necromunda, lol
I hope you post those up here on LAF when you're done - those sound like a great idea to me!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 31, 2014, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 31, 2014, 11:10:58 AM
Typical GW game, loud and fast moving, the 'GM' shouting (not in a bad way you understand) at the kids about the rules, who's turn it was, what the dice numbers were, the kids shouting back, being boistrous etc. Needless to say, I didn't partake in the shouting part and spoke to kids who asked questions in a normal voice and kept out of it for the most part.

#1 Reason I've never gamed in a GW store.

Well, that, and most of the staff running the game didn't actually know many of the rules of the game they were supposed to be running! No wonder it seemed that there was always an argument with some of the players. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 31, 2014, 03:19:44 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 31, 2014, 02:20:40 PM
I hope you post those up here on LAF when you're done - those sound like a great idea to me!  :D
I'm tempted to buy the warg riders and replace the wargs with giant rats  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 31, 2014, 03:30:33 PM
.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 31, 2014, 07:31:23 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on August 31, 2014, 07:12:28 AM
I bought some to use as ratskins for necromunda, lol

I thought about that as I typed it. :D They changed that image for ratskins, just before they pulled SG development, into more generic post-apoc (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7NIeJb7TUvU/TVhZ330wkeI/AAAAAAAAAOg/3MIQTiEPA3A/s1600/Ratskins.jpg) barbarians (http://gambitgamesuk.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/hobby-updates.html). I'm still not sure if it was a great idea, removing any (most) iffy stereotypes, but sucking the flavour out too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on August 31, 2014, 08:41:19 PM
 Just seen this on Ebay and thought that some might get a laugh from it.

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Citadel-OOP-Limited-Edition-Large-Wooden-Rocket-Installation-Scenery-/351156802054?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

 Not sure where he got his info from.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 31, 2014, 08:45:42 PM
Made me chuckle  :)

Some part of me hopes he sells it  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 31, 2014, 08:54:20 PM
Quote from: manic _miner on August 31, 2014, 08:41:19 PM
Just seen this on Ebay and thought that some might get a laugh from it.

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Citadel-OOP-Limited-Edition-Large-Wooden-Rocket-Installation-Scenery-/351156802054?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

 Not sure where he got his info from.

There did used to be a bastion building that cropped up in many oft he old 40k white dwarf photos that was that shape.
Maybe he saw that, thought it might have been a product, googled it, couldn't find it, thought it was oop, decided to try and con people and didn't realize how wrong he was.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fred on August 31, 2014, 09:07:38 PM
Do you not remember the extensive wooden range that GW did just before failcast?

I particularly like that it has 'superb colour'

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on August 31, 2014, 09:11:24 PM
 I know that Ziterdes did one like it.

 Have you seen the plastic Eldar riding the creatures?They are from the old Epic 40K Tyranid range.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 31, 2014, 11:08:14 PM
.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 31, 2014, 11:13:06 PM
Quote from: grant on August 31, 2014, 11:08:14 PM
"Woodcast"

I carve miniatures from plaster, how long before gw sue me for copying their new wonder material?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 31, 2014, 11:51:42 PM
Quote from: grant on August 31, 2014, 11:29:23 PM
(http://usaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/cease_desist_horz.png)

I suppose that sack of plaster of paris i have is going to be seized and made into the new sisters of battle now?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on September 01, 2014, 02:32:17 AM
 lol lol so good

(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/wbYAAOSwDk5T~dGu/$_57.JPG)

He should invest in a Box of Plastic Skellies and glue them allover the Castle,apply a Red Wash and list it again as Khorne Bloodskull Warcastle of Terrorhammerdoom or something  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 01, 2014, 08:47:48 AM
I liked that he painted it silver, for that genuine "OOP Lead" look!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 01, 2014, 08:55:46 AM
Had a look at some of his other stuff. He's also selling warhammer citadel real stone walls
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Citadel-Real-Stone-Wall-Mounds-Scenery-x-3-/351156831050?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item51c294034a
Not oop though as I'm sure you can still pick up stones on many a beach, riverbed, driveway, ground.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 01, 2014, 09:04:35 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 31, 2014, 07:31:23 PM
I thought about that as I typed it. :D They changed that image for ratskins, just before they pulled SG development, into more generic post-apoc (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7NIeJb7TUvU/TVhZ330wkeI/AAAAAAAAAOg/3MIQTiEPA3A/s1600/Ratskins.jpg) barbarians (http://gambitgamesuk.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/hobby-updates.html). I'm still not sure if it was a great idea, removing any (most) iffy stereotypes, but sucking the flavour out too.

I think you put your finger on the problem with the "new" Ratskins... Along with awkward posing, I didn't think particularly highly of the Fanatic/Specialist Games re-sculpts for Necromunda.

The best were definitely the Goliaths IMO, as they actually had some nice models that fit well with the original aesthetic and gave players flexibility with regards to weapons. They also got much better Juves this time around, looking like Keith Flint from The Prodigy.

Close second were the Enforcers, which were not-Arbites-and-definately-not-Dredd, but looked quite good nonetheless and had fair weapon options too.

The worst were harder to choose, but include: Scavvy ghouls/dogs, Ratskins, most of the Redemptionists, most of the new bounty hunters.

The new Orlocks were okay I guess, but were totally different from the Perry originals. The new Van Saar were a reasonable match style-wise with the Gary Morley originals, but so-so heads and awkward poses spoiled them.

Mostly though, I didn't see the purpose in re-imagining the established models. Aside from being a dick move to those that already had gangs, they would have done much better if they had simply added more options to the original range (which had few melee and special weapon options on the whole).

Then again, their approach to the minis was the same as the rules - fix some stuff that's moderately inconsequential, ignore the parts that definitely need a lot of help (like the wonky quality of the various skill tables).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 01, 2014, 09:05:51 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 01, 2014, 08:55:46 AM
Not oop though as I'm sure you can still pick up stones on many a beach, riverbed, driveway, ground.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Pro-Painted Warhammer Shrubbery, made with real limited edition aquarium plants.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 02, 2014, 05:39:52 PM
Funny you should say that... I clearly remember GW releasing, around the time of the plastic Catachans first release, selling "Jungle Plants" that were evidently repackaged aquarium plants.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on September 02, 2014, 09:28:08 PM
I need to notify the people at Stuff of Legends that there's a genuine Citadel uncatalogued terrain item on the market :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 02, 2014, 10:41:34 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on September 02, 2014, 09:28:08 PM
I need to notify the people at Stuff of Legends that there's a genuine Citadel uncatalogued terrain item on the market :)

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 03, 2014, 05:10:46 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 01, 2014, 09:04:35 AM
I think you put your finger on the problem with the "new" Ratskins... Along with awkward posing, I didn't think particularly highly of the Fanatic/Specialist Games re-sculpts for Necromunda.
 The new Van Saar were a reasonable match style-wise with the Gary Morley originals, but so-so heads and awkward poses spoiled them.

Mostly though, I didn't see the purpose in re-imagining the established models. Aside from being a dick move to those that already had gangs, they would have done much better if they had simply added more options to the original range (which had few melee and special weapon options on the whole).

Then again, their approach to the minis was the same as the rules - fix some stuff that's moderately inconsequential, ignore the parts that definitely need a lot of help (like the wonky quality of the various skill tables).

I was just thinking the same thing about the Van Saar myself as I was assembling and starting to paint a batch of old and new Van Saar last week.  The new ones were a major missed opportunity.  The proportions were all off.  They went from almost-truescale to almost heroic.  Also, while the general style of dress is similar, the fine detail is largely lacking and the detail that is present is heavy handed and chunky.  It's almost like the difference in style between Infinity and Pig Iron.  Both are cool looking aesthetics, but you wouldn't put the two in the same line of minis. As you say, the new heads were not at all similar to the old heads.

I was glad to have a few of the new ones to add some variety to my gang, but they really couldn't hold a candle to the originals. Makes one wonder why they didn't simply modify the originals for interchangeable weapons and heads if that was the point  anyway.  Not like the Necromunda line or GW-in-general is unfamiliar with modifying and re-using sculpts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 03, 2014, 05:27:17 PM
I bought enough of the "new" style to do a whole gang at one point, the idea being that they'd all match in style that way, and that I'd finally have a gang with some real weapon variety at last (since, along with the other Gary Morley sculpted gang, the Goliaths, they had the lowest sculpt count of any House gang in the game).

But GW never finished the Van Saar resculpts, and never released all the figures they did commission (there's an unreleased female and juve torsos, unreleased head sprue and unreleased weapon sprue), and then they severely restructured the range to limit what you could buy shortly after. This was when the new VS range was just dropped and the old starter box came back.

Quote from: eilif on September 03, 2014, 05:10:46 PM
Makes one wonder why they didn't simply modify the originals for interchangeable weapons and heads if that was the point  anyway.  Not like the Necromunda line or GW-in-general is unfamiliar with modifying and re-using sculpts.

I wondered this myself many times with the "new" resculpts - they were clearly worse, and the originals could have been adapted with either further weapon variations, or plug-in style weapons, or both.

To be honest, I was always unsure why the original ranges had so few "open arms" sculpts, which would have made weapon swaps for close combat or gunfighter gangers so much easier. Hell, even a separate head sprue for each gang would have been amazing!

I think that's one of the reasons that Escher have always been popular - good House skills, good mix of useful weapons, second biggest sculpt range in the game (after Orlocks I think), and lots of open-arm poses. Jes got/gets it.

In fact, this talk of Necromunda recently has got me thinking about a rules re-write I was working on...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 03, 2014, 05:30:26 PM
Holy crap I feel uninformed.... I had no clue Specialist Games was history...  Now I really understand why people are predicting the end of GW.... 

Where can we find new Necromunda minis?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Steve63 on September 03, 2014, 07:57:16 PM
Not really new, but they can be found here
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Necromunda_1999_onwards_-_Collectors_Guide
I always thought that once GW dumped games into Specialist Games it was B or even C team sculptors producing the figures, there is the odd gem though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 03, 2014, 08:15:52 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 03, 2014, 05:30:26 PM
Holy crap I feel uninformed.... I had no clue Specialist Games was history...  Now I really understand why people are predicting the end of GW.... 

Where can we find new Necromunda minis?

http://tinyurl.com/neen79g

:)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 03, 2014, 08:48:30 PM
Quote from: Vermis on September 03, 2014, 08:15:52 PM
http://tinyurl.com/neen79g

:)

But that's heresy...

Bad pun I know, I couldn't help myself  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 03, 2014, 08:50:24 PM
I have most of those not-delaques and they are great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 03, 2014, 09:48:52 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 03, 2014, 05:27:17 PM
I bought enough of the "new" style to do a whole gang at one point, the idea being that they'd all match in style that way, and that I'd finally have a gang with some real weapon variety at last (since, along with the other Gary Morley sculpted gang, the Goliaths, they had the lowest sculpt count of any House gang in the game).

But GW never finished the Van Saar resculpts, and never released all the figures they did commission (there's an unreleased female and juve torsos, unreleased head sprue and unreleased weapon sprue), and then they severely restructured the range to limit what you could buy shortly after. This was when the new VS range was just dropped and the old starter box came back.


This answers another question I had. I've got what I think was the last specialist/classic GW catalog (nice book). It's got a picture of a female Van Saar figure painted up, but no listing for that body.  I ended up making one of the multipart gangers a girl anyway with an Alpha forge head, but unfortunately since it's one of the new bodies in a gang mostly comprised of original sculpts, she is the "big girl" of the gang.

So many missed opportunities with SG.

I've got a bunch of Necromunda weapons sprues leftover so now I'm thinking of converting up a Delaque gang from ERM Slicks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 03, 2014, 10:22:49 PM
I wasn't a fan of the minis either in that era.  I noticed c1995 that once the Epic stuff was reintroduced, the minis got a lot better...and significantly more expensive. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 03, 2014, 11:05:36 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 03, 2014, 10:05:45 PM
In the 90's when I started minis the specialist games sculpts were quite universally horrid.

That's kind of a broad brush you're painting with there. Which games and when exactly in the 90's? During most of the 90's those games were part of the main GW family of products or called "Fanatic" and for Necromunda anyway, most folks agree that that's when some of the best miniatures were made.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on September 03, 2014, 11:18:55 PM
Quote from: eilif on September 03, 2014, 11:05:36 PM
Which games and when exactly in the 90's?

BFG Orcs?
 Necromunda Security Types/Enforcers?
pretty much every Inq. Model?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 04, 2014, 06:16:56 AM
Quote from: Dr.Falkenhayn on September 03, 2014, 11:18:55 PM
BFG Orcs?
 Necromunda Security Types/Enforcers?
pretty much every Inq. Model?

Can't speak to BFG as I never played.  However, Enforcers weren't bad and I don't think they were released until the 00's, certainly no earlier than '99.  There were definitely some stinkers in the 2nd gen Necromunda models, which IIRC were also mostly released in the 00's. 

As to Inquisitor, I completely disagree. Overpriced, maybe, but they were some absolutely beautiful models. Possibly some of the best that GW was producing at the time.  Also, Inquisitor was 2000 and onward.

All this to say 99 and onward may have gotten a bit shakey for some lines, but I think that the majority of the 90's were really good for Fanatic/Specialist.  It's the era that gave us 1st gen Necro sculpts and characters, many of which still hold up today like the Van Saar and Escher and scum.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 04, 2014, 07:34:37 AM
I'm a big fan of the 90s sculpts for specialist. Best of GW I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 04, 2014, 09:19:17 AM
Most of the Fanatic and Specialist Games were not sculpted by the regular GW team. Instead, they were trainee sculptor projects, and in many cases they were outsourced to other sculptors. For Necromunda, roughly, these are:





Quote from: eilif on September 03, 2014, 09:48:52 PM
This answers another question I had. I've got what I think was the last specialist/classic GW catalog (nice book). It's got a picture of a female Van Saar figure painted up, but no listing for that body.  I ended up making one of the multipart gangers a girl anyway with an Alpha forge head, but unfortunately since it's one of the new bodies in a gang mostly comprised of original sculpts, she is the "big girl" of the gang.

On the website, the female body, female head, a Juve and a flamer were all spotted. I know some reported seeing a few other nick-nacks too, hence the summary of the unreleased models.


Quote from: eilif on September 03, 2014, 09:48:52 PM
So many missed opportunities with SG.

Definitely.


Quote from: eilif on September 03, 2014, 09:48:52 PM
I've got a bunch of Necromunda weapons sprues leftover so now I'm thinking of converting up a Delaque gang from ERM Slicks.
I'd suggest Heresy's gangers instead - they are very good, and most feature separate weapons. Andy's also got a few female members of the gang too.

I do wish Andy'd sculpt other gangs though - I'd love to see him tackle Van Saar and Escher equivalents. :?


Quote from: Scurv on September 03, 2014, 10:05:45 PM
In the 90's when I started minis the specialist games sculpts were quite universally horrid.

Wow, that's harsh!  o_o

Most of the "good" Necromunda line was mid-90's, and most of the BFG models and "good" Epic models were all late 90's.

In fact, the very best Epic range was Epic 40k; not only did they have the best sculpts and a huge variety of sculpts and combinations, but they were also cheaper than the Titan Legions models for the most part (Titans and superheavies got more expensive though). They are still generally the most sought-after Epic models.

The original BFG stuff was generally very good, although the SG/Fanatic stuff was rather poor. I know the Ork ships were an acquired taste, but I thought they were still a much better effort than almost any other Ork ships I had seen before (or since), and I personally liked them.

I never really took to Inquisitor as a game, and I think the sculpts showed that the sculptors were really taken out of their comfort zone. Yes, some were very nice, but most were awkward. Another thing was that as the scale gets bigger, weird proportions (GW's "Heroic Scale") look stranger and stranger. Yet, if you make the proportions more "true" on the bigger models, they stop looking like their 28mm counterparts.

Mordheim did quite well out of the SG/Fanatic attention somehow. Many of the models, whilst rather unnecessary, were actually pretty decent.

I can't really speak for Bloodbowl too much unfortunately, as it was never an interest of mine and so didn't monitor it very closely. However, I do remember lots of wonky-looking teams being released (like those Amazons...).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 04, 2014, 10:03:43 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 04, 2014, 09:19:17 AM
I never really took to Inquisitor as a game, and I think the sculpts showed that the sculptors were really taken out of their comfort zone. Yes, some were very nice, but most were awkward. Another thing was that as the scale gets bigger, weird proportions (GW's "Heroic Scale") look stranger and stranger. Yet, if you make the proportions more "true" on the bigger models, they stop looking like their 28mm counterparts.


It gives me no satisfaction (perhaps just a little) to say that as soon as the 'Inquisitor' stuff first came out I called it as a dead end, because of the scale. For whatever reason, bigger scale stuff like that just doesn't hold enough interest.

I recall the large scale plastic models Citadel brought out in the mid 80's (many of which still survive in people's collections as giants). Although I suspect it was a way for them to hone their skills before moving into plastics for 28mm scale, still the initial novelty of them just didn't last.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 04, 2014, 10:19:59 AM
Quote from: Cubs on September 04, 2014, 10:03:43 AM
It gives me no satisfaction (perhaps just a little) to say that as soon as the 'Inquisitor' stuff first came out I called it as a dead end, because of the scale. For whatever reason, bigger scale stuff like that just doesn't hold enough interest.

Same here.

The biggest issues by a long way are:

1) Cost. Sorry, you may only need a few figures, but they are much more expensive than 28mm figures as they are some 6-8 times the volume in metal.

2) Lack of model range. Every converted version of Devotee Malicant or Preacher Josef, or whoever, basically looked like a slightly modified version of the original model. SG/Fanatic did try and help this somewhat with new sculpts, but the scale was all over the place between models which made conversions even harder.

3) Game scale. Rifles that shoot at the equivalent of 48m in "real" scale are silly enough, but the table limits this even more drastically for Inquisitor. We don't all have a 8' x 16' table to play on...

4) Terrain. You need a fair old bit, especially if you need to represent different narrative locations. And, it all needs to be in a scale that largely doesn't work with any other game you are likely to own. Great!

5) Clunky rules. Not much more to say here really. A simpler D20-based game could easily have been written, and the extra space in the book given over to more skills, equipment, and character templates instead.

The above means that if you buy a few models, make a bit of terrain, and play a few games (that take a while to play out), you will likely get bored of the game pretty fast. Unless that is, you keep buying more models and making more terrain. Even so, it still has very limited replay value, especially compared to a proper pen-and-paper Inquisitor-themed RPG which lets you do all the same things for cheap and simples.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 04, 2014, 10:31:34 AM
You know, the biggest improvement I've seen made to Inquisitor consisted of two simple swap-outs: Swap the 54mm miniatures for 28mm ones, and swap the entire ruleset for the Necromunda one...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 04, 2014, 10:58:19 AM
@ Modhail:

Exactly!  lol

I still think Inquisitor would be aces played at 28mm scale with the Infinity ruleset. But I personally cannot be bothered to do the conversion myself, nor to clean up the Infinity rules into something that more people can understand. ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 04, 2014, 11:37:33 AM
Ooooh, that IS an exciting concept, but sadly I don't think I can be bothered either, especially since I somehow consistently fail at making heads or tails of the Infinity ruleset... Got no-one locally who plays it, so all I can do is read the rules, and go "huh?"  I've always found their reactionary actions quite intriguing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on September 04, 2014, 11:40:04 AM
I quite like the Inquisitor rules. They are great for a narrative game. Some time ago we played a game with the Inquisitor rules and G.I. JOE figures. That was awesome. As we could position the figures to be kneeling and prone. And swap weapons and such.

But I do agree that the scale is stupid. But you can just use 28mm minis. There is no need to do any conversion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 04, 2014, 02:18:12 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on September 04, 2014, 11:40:04 AM
I quite like the Inquisitor rules. They are great for a narrative game. Some time ago we played a game with the Inquisitor rules and G.I. JOE figures. That was awesome. As we could position the figures to be kneeling and prone. And swap weapons and such.

But I do agree that the scale is stupid. But you can just use 28mm minis. There is no need to do any conversion.


"in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only toys'r'us"

I seem to recall reading once that inquisitor want written to be a roleplaying game and the design time were amazed to find that people were using it as one. Apparently it was meant to be a sort of 40k gladiator style wrestling match where you just beat the snot out of each other.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 04, 2014, 02:38:14 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 04, 2014, 02:18:12 PM
I seem to recall reading once that inquisitor want written to be a roleplaying game and the design time were amazed to find that people were using it as one. Apparently it was meant to be a sort of 40k gladiator style wrestling match where you just beat the snot out of each other.
Since the Inquisitor ruleset was based on the original Confrontation rules (the precursor to Necromunda), I'm a bit surprised that that's what you heard!

Further, equipment and such in Inquisitor has no points value assigned, as it is assumed that through virtue of being an RPG, the GM will "authorise" any disagreements between players on what equipment they can give their characters and also ensure that the games played are balanced.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 04, 2014, 03:17:06 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on September 04, 2014, 11:40:04 AM
Some time ago we played a game with the Inquisitor rules and G.I. JOE figures. That was awesome.

That sounds really good fun. I've got a load of old 'Action Force' SAS models in the loft (3 inch action toys, very similar to GI Joe) that I've always wanted to muck about with and turn into little vignettes. I have images of Iranian embassy balconies whizzing through my head sometimes.

I never played the Inquisitor rules themselves, but bless 'em, GW did try to peddle them hard in WD for a couple of years didn't they? Talk about flogging that expired pony.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 04, 2014, 03:27:52 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 04, 2014, 10:58:19 AM
@ Modhail:

Exactly!  lol

I still think Inquisitor would be aces played at 28mm scale with the Infinity ruleset. But I personally cannot be bothered to do the conversion myself, nor to clean up the Infinity rules into something that more people can understand. ::)

I've not heard great things about the complexity of the Infinity ruleset.  Once you 'get it' I heard it was great, but it was a game that was best taught, not read, to learn.  I'm hoping 3e is clearer, it looks like a great game
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 04, 2014, 03:42:24 PM
Quote from: Cubs on September 04, 2014, 03:17:06 PM
I never played the Inquisitor rules themselves, but bless 'em, GW did try to peddle them hard in WD for a couple of years didn't they? Talk about flogging that expired pony.

It's not as expired as all that.

http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/

You might not read articles about a game you're not interested in, and it might be just one notice nailed to one fencepost, but it's still out there. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 04, 2014, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 04, 2014, 03:27:52 PM
I've not heard great things about the complexity of the Infinity ruleset.  Once you 'get it' I heard it was great, but it was a game that was best taught, not read, to learn.  I'm hoping 3e is clearer, it looks like a great game

It *is* a great game, and it *is* badly explained in the rulebook. I too hope that 3E will be simpler.

One of it's biggest issues though is that it doesn't "simplify" well because it is  very carefully balanced, and so anything that removes the complexity upsets that balance notably.

I also have yet to see a videoed battle report in which the game is properly explained or even played correctly. One of the key reasons for this is that there is a "poker mechanic" in which you all eyeball the table and models when you declare your actions (and reactions), and then you move models, measure distances, roll dice, and generally resolve the actions... However, most people grab and move models as they declare actions, and that actually makes a lot of the subsequent rules too hard to follow properly since it breaks the sequence of doing things (and it also makes a number if important rules pointless).

Anyway, that's enough OT for this thread!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on September 04, 2014, 07:19:38 PM
Going back to WFB...

It's confirmed that next edition will be a skirmish game. Bigger than Mordheim, but obviously smaller than what WFB is now. It's also going to be really simplified (for the 10 yo's). Those undead riders on dragon zombies (yes, those are supposed to be dragon zombies...) have only one line of stats, instead of having both rider and mount stats. Also, after a few decades of "the impeding doom of Chaos"... they forget about their fluff and flavour, and choose a different baddie to "end" things. Nagash will kill pretty much everyone, and Bretonia or Empire will be no more. Only a few survivors. Elves are going to teleport themselves to an UFO, or something (the UFO thing is my joke, the teleportation ain't).

Why the change for a skirmish type of game? Who knows, perhaps someone has noted that their tactics are failing, and no one bothers expending way so much cash to get a playable army. Perhaps they are looking at the success of Warmahordes. Or perhaps now that the LotR/Hobbit franchise is about to end, they've noticed that scale of games were more popular that WFB.
Anyway I find it ironic that WFB may turn into a Fantasy Rogue Trader now that 40K has turned into a mass battle game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 04, 2014, 07:22:42 PM
To all in the above post, SAY WHAT?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on September 04, 2014, 07:36:22 PM
I had heard those rumours (as pretty much everyone else) some time ago (first, at a spaniard blog that seems to always have some decent info on GW).
And the above was confirmed by a GW store manager.

Actually, even though I'm worried about the further sillinessation of the rules (and as a former Chaos players pissed off that it wasn't Archaon who "ended the times"), the idea of a skirmish level WFB interests me. This has the potential for something very good.

...

I know. I'll be disappointed. Or I won't be able to afford it. :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 04, 2014, 07:49:39 PM
Major Gilbear,
      Thanks for the info on the unreleased Van Saar.  Really too bad.  I agree that the Heresy gangers are really well done.  Not for me though for 2 reasons.  First, they're just a bit out of my price range.  Secondly, I'm not a fan of the Matrix'ish poses and attitude that most of the sculpts seem to have.    I'm also rather attracted to converting up a gang that not many other folks have.

ModHall,
    It's been a dream of mine to play Inquisimunda sometime.  There's a fellow here in Chicago that wrote a pretty good system for playing out Inquisitor'ish games with the Necromunda ruleset.
http://empireofghosts.blogspot.com/p/inquisimunda-resources.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on September 04, 2014, 07:51:00 PM
Hmm, interesting.  I guess that means that if its a skirmish game then GW can halve the contents of all the boxes and keep the price the same, right?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 04, 2014, 08:02:12 PM
Quote from: Timbor on September 04, 2014, 07:51:00 PM
Hmm, interesting.  I guess that means that if its a skirmish game then GW can halve the contents of all the boxes and keep the price the same, right?  ;)

Yea, in my cinical mind this is the thinking:

People are paying for the minies at their rather high prices, and buying new ones to play the game. But they are not buying becouse they still "have so many unpainted miniatures" And, the most expansive models, ie most profit, are heroes. So, why not do a hero heavy skirmish game. Les to paint, more buying more profit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on September 04, 2014, 08:12:20 PM
WFB with round Bases then...Kings of War(Hammer)  >:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 04, 2014, 08:22:03 PM
I wonder if in a year or so this thread will have to be renamed "Nostalgia About The Former Games Workshop"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 04, 2014, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 04, 2014, 08:22:03 PM
I wonder if in a year or so this thread will have to be renamed "Nostalgia About The Former Games Workshop"
  lol

I'd be more interested in WFS (Warhammer Fantasy Skirmish, you heard it here first ;) )
Probably be able to crank out some of my older minis for that, even if Nagash turns everyone into zombies or vampires.

Makes me think though, are they going to turn it into "Warhammer, The Walking Dead".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 04, 2014, 08:58:33 PM
Quote from: Vermis on September 04, 2014, 03:42:24 PM
It's not as expired as all that.


You can't kill an idea, man ... it's like ... the world's baby now ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 04, 2014, 09:58:09 PM
@ Ajsalium:

I've heard that rumour a few times now, but it still seems unlikely to me. I can see the effort being made to re-do all the army books and plastic regiment kits for 8th, and can't see how 9th will abolish that. That 9th has a lower model count requirement I could understand,  and even that it has a skirmish subset of rules.

But otherwise,  I actually wonder if we'll see WHFB and 40k skirmish games (I.e., one each) to fill the void that will be left when the LOTR licence finally runs out/dry.


Quote from: YPU on September 04, 2014, 08:02:12 PM
Yea, in my cinical mind this is the idea:

[...], the most expansive models, ie most profit, are heroes. So, why not do a hero heavy skirmish game. Les to paint, more buying more profit.

Scary, but I could see GW thinking exactly like that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 05, 2014, 01:47:55 AM
I got out of the hobby shortly after Mordheim came out. Last white Dwarf I bought was probably when the first couple of White Dwarf's introduced Mordheim but before the game became official in a book/boxed set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 05, 2014, 09:06:58 AM
But isn't the Nagashaplypse an optional scenario still?

 Sorry i don't spend to much time looking at gw stuff as I tend to laugh to much at the web page.

Back on topic - its optional scenario? so you can do "world destroyed by Nagash and dragons now look like flying skull horses..."
 or not?

So all the old game styles still apply - with the new rules you need to buy first of course, new skermishy stuff applies, mass massive combats, original (with new rules) style WFB etc etc.

So you end up with more gaming options, granted, more books to buy,

- Not really affordable as the prices will hike accordingly scaled to the reduction of box content

"yes thats a huge number of 1 soldier per box mate - massive" 

So you can pay more for less and still play... Something.

So then when they do the next release, which will be shockingly close to this one, maybe Chaos will get to be the next optional Apocalypse?

"But dad, you said dragons are skelly horses with wings, now they aren't?"

" don't be so last month son - let me finish selling your soul to get the latest chaos destruction Ryder lords of Apochaoslypse... TM."




 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 05, 2014, 06:39:33 PM
Gw release boxed set of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse , loads of  skulls and then claim copyright of the idea. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 06, 2014, 09:35:28 AM
I was having a look at the new releases, reading the description and found something that actually looks like a good move by GW. The new undead minis seem to have the rules included in the box. It does say full rules in book blah blah blah but also rules are included in the box! Weird. Maybe they are trying to get people to buy their stuff now by making it within people's budgets... Somewhat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on September 06, 2014, 10:35:06 AM
The new spirit hosts look fantastic and 3 for £15 is not bad for gw!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 06, 2014, 12:07:11 PM
To be honest, I REALLY like the new Dark Elf hero with the octi-mask.  It will work great with my underdark skirmish force!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 06, 2014, 04:04:01 PM
I need more hunter orcs.quite like the dark elf assassin .I've got no problem buying their products when it's sensibly priced etc.just don't like their ethics I suppose .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 06, 2014, 05:06:53 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 06, 2014, 12:07:11 PM
To be honest, I REALLY like the new Dark Elf hero with the octi-mask.  It will work great with my underdark skirmish force!

What hero is this? You're not talking about Lokir Felheart are you? He's been around forever. If there's a new one I might be interested!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 06, 2014, 05:26:20 PM
So, Warhammer skirmish but with monsters then...

That what it sounds like. A massive plastic 'thing' and a few minions. I'll leave it and stick with 3rd ed  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on September 06, 2014, 05:37:20 PM
6th for me, with a massive PDF of Warhammer Skirmish scenarios etc. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 06, 2014, 05:44:30 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on September 06, 2014, 05:06:53 PM
What hero is this? You're not talking about Lokir Felheart are you? He's been around forever. If there's a new one I might be interested!

Nope, that's the one!  Shows you how long I've been out of the loop....  I think he would be great as a slave/champion for the Illithids.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 06, 2014, 06:07:43 PM
Quote from: Gibby on September 06, 2014, 05:37:20 PM
6th for me, with a massive PDF of Warhammer Skirmish scenarios etc. :D

I actually wouldn't mind giving 8th a go, I've got plenty of figures for the larger units  ???

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on September 06, 2014, 06:57:12 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 06, 2014, 05:44:30 PM
Nope, that's the one!  Shows you how long I've been out of the loop....  I think he would be great as a slave/champion for the Illithids.

I like that model too. I think he'd make a great Hermaeus Mora cultist like Miraak from the Skyrim DLC Dragonborn.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on September 06, 2014, 08:20:22 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on September 06, 2014, 06:07:43 PM
I actually wouldn't mind giving 8th a go, I've got plenty of figures for the larger units  ???

cheers

James

8th does look very good, but I lack big armies to use it yet. I happened to have the 6th Edition rulebook laying around and remember enjoying it. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 06, 2014, 08:32:50 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 06, 2014, 05:44:30 PM
Nope, that's the one!  Shows you how long I've been out of the loop....  I think he would be great as a slave/champion for the Illithids.
Rats, I thought there might be a new one. I have a... use for him. More would have been welcome though!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 06, 2014, 11:09:31 PM
Nah... convert your armies to God of Battles instead, Great system, easy to proxy almost any army you want using one of the lists - and 'borrow' unis from other lists if you need to.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 06, 2014, 11:50:17 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 04, 2014, 09:58:09 PM
@ Ajsalium:

I've heard that rumour a few times now, but it still seems unlikely to me. I can see the effort being made to re-do all the army books and plastic regiment kits for 8th, and can't see how 9th will abolish that. That 9th has a lower model count requirement I could understand,  and even that it has a skirmish subset of rules.

But otherwise,  I actually wonder if we'll see WHFB and 40k skirmish games (I.e., one each) to fill the void that will be left when the LOTR licence finally runs out/dry.

Gotta agree with this.  I can see something based around the £50-£100 mark as being a good starting point for WHFB - or basically, a battalion boxed set with a character or monster.  Heck, there are 1000 to 1500-point High Elf army lists that are pretty much 2x the elves from the Island of Blood starter - buy two boxes with a mate and swap armies!  ANd pity the poor sod who ends up with 100 skaven to paint...

Are the End Times armies we've seen around the £100 mark a hint of things to come?

I could get into a skirmish version of WHFB and 40k very easily indeed, although I'd like to see basic stats in the book if it's going to be separate.  Or a rules summary and stats sheet in each box?

Much as it saddens me, I agree that the LotR/Hobbit range is not long for this world.  What's doubly sad is how the game ended up as a pale imitation of WHFB.  AH well, still have my models!

GW has pretty much no competition for the MONSTAHS!!! that they're putting out these days, and they're a high-value sale, so it's kind of easy to see why they're so fond of them.  Some are pretty decent - I fancy trying my hand at a Terrorgeist at some point. Trouble is, as folks have noted, it changes the nature of the game completely...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 06, 2014, 11:52:48 PM
Quote from: Gibby on September 06, 2014, 05:37:20 PM
6th for me, with a massive PDF of Warhammer Skirmish scenarios etc. :D

If that's a hint mate, consider it well taken!  I have the Ravening Hordes army lists and PDFs of Border Patrol (<500 points) and Path to Glory (Chaos warbands beat each other up...).  And 6th Ed is pretty cheap on eBay...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 06, 2014, 11:53:24 PM
Quote from: Argonor on September 06, 2014, 11:09:31 PM
Nah... convert your armies to God of Battles instead, Great system, easy to proxy almost any army you want using one of the lists - and 'borrow' unis from other lists if you need to.  :)

Very tempted by this idea - I do love GoB...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on September 06, 2014, 11:57:53 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on September 06, 2014, 11:52:48 PM
If that's a hint mate, consider it well taken!  I have the Ravening Hordes army lists and PDFs of Border Patrol (<500 points) and Path to Glory (Chaos warbands beat each other up...).  And 6th Ed is pretty cheap on eBay...


It wasn't but I knew you'd see it.  :D 6th is a nice book to be honest. It contains the skirmish rules and siege rules (which we may need...)

Now you need to build a dwarven mine for underground skirmish campaigns against skaven and night goblins!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 07, 2014, 12:30:08 AM
Those £100 deals weren't looking too bad, then I changed it to "deliver to New Zealand" I thought the Southern Hemisphere markup wouldn't make it excessive as $200 is the equivalent of £100. These cost $320! That's an extra £60/$120. Still, getting off a northern hemisphere mate on LAF would make it a lot cheaper or ordering through one of those shipping forwarding companies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 07, 2014, 12:37:02 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 07, 2014, 12:30:08 AM
Those £100 deals weren't looking too bad, then I changed it to "deliver to New Zealand" I thought the Southern Hemisphere markup wouldn't make it excessive as $200 is the equivalent of £100. These cost $320! That's an extra £60/$120. Still, getting off a northern hemisphere mate on LAF would make it a lot cheaper or ordering through one of those shipping forwarding companies.

Holy Smaug!  S&H to Middle Earth is off the hook!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 07, 2014, 12:42:22 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 07, 2014, 12:30:08 AM
Those £100 deals weren't looking too bad, then I changed it to "deliver to New Zealand" I thought the Southern Hemisphere markup wouldn't make it excessive as $200 is the equivalent of £100. These cost $320! That's an extra £60/$120. Still, getting off a northern hemisphere mate on LAF would make it a lot cheaper or ordering through one of those shipping forwarding companies.

 :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 07, 2014, 06:20:46 PM
Quote from: Gibby on September 06, 2014, 08:20:22 PM
8th does look very good, but I lack big armies to use it yet.

If you are happy to make a few 40x40mm and 40x60mm unit fillers (generic ones like fallen masonry, etc), you can plop them into your existing regiments to bulk them up to the correct footprint. Cheap, quick, and they can double up as objectives or what have you in smaller/other games.

I mean, I'll paint 20 models for a regiment, but I'm sure as hell not buying/painting 40 models (given that past a certain point, they are basically  *just* wound markers).

Anyway, that's the quick way to get from 4th/5th/6th up to 8th.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 07, 2014, 09:52:11 PM
Forgeworld gets what people want ;)
 Also a bunch of admech knights that my computer wont download.

Pre heresy imperial army.
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/fw4_zps54769b0a.jpg)
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/fw3_zps063dafee.jpg)

ROBOTS!!
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/fw1_zps357c32ef.jpg)

ad mech robo throne thing.
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/fw2_zps7a717292.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 07, 2014, 10:02:16 PM
Love the robots, not keen on the imperial army and the rest is a bit meh  :?

I'm sure the detail is great and the vast majority of the pre heresy stuff is rather good I'm wondering if they're taking it a bit too far.

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 07, 2014, 10:13:50 PM
Better pic of the solar auxilla.
I really like these, think they'd work for inq28 pretty well.
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/fw5_zpsc62a04ad.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 08, 2014, 01:33:50 AM
I really like the look of the Solar Auxillia, but do I see it and kind of think to myself  "Didn't Alternative Armies already do this in the 90's?"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 08, 2014, 08:06:38 AM
I do like the Solar Auxilia (and yes, FW does seem to 'get' what GW customers want even if GW proper don't), but I dunno... Collecting any FW Imperial Guard* infantry just seems to require a second mortgage, and so these will just be relegated to the "looks nice, but-" list of items that I like but will never buy.
 
 
 
 
*...Can we still call them that?  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 08, 2014, 08:47:39 AM
The robots are great, really resonate with some of the original artwork I remember from so long ago.

The Auxilia - Nice ish, but I agree - Alternative armies, some of  classic spacelord stuff thats still available and more being made available again - EM4 (thats so so tempting - but not yet, have to earn more money first)  they show similarities..

But as mentioned already by Major_Gilbear - the price will kill any temptation to get some of the Foundry stuff...

The mechanical throne thing... well...  It has skulls and tentacles so tick those boxes, but I think it needs some wolves or something similar to pull it along?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 08, 2014, 10:14:13 AM
Those solar auxilia would do quite nicely for, say, Inq28 or Necromunda. They look like either space-suited boarding parties or Guilders/Enforcers alternatives. Wouldn't need that many that way either...

Major Gilbear, be careful, it is said that if you say "Imperial Guard" three times in a row in a GW topic, you will summon the Dark Lord of GW Legal Himself...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 08, 2014, 10:49:06 AM
I just dont like all that fine detail for gaming figs in resin.  Resin is a great material for large objects like super heavies and titans where the downsides of resin are forgiven by the size of the pieces.  But with things this small, all that beautiful detail just looks like its begging to be snapped off....  At this scale, resin is much better for display pieces, not for gaming use.
Of course, the worst resin I've seen is that FineCrap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on September 08, 2014, 11:26:42 AM
Quote from: nic-e on September 07, 2014, 10:13:50 PM
Better pic of the solar auxilla.
I really like these, think they'd work for inq28 pretty well.
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/fw5_zpsc62a04ad.jpg)

In this photo the flamer pipe is infact broken.... :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on September 08, 2014, 12:03:24 PM
lol

And this was just shared with me, new version of Space Hulk (which I still don't own...):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp91dSwHmQQ
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 08, 2014, 12:08:55 PM
...If that is a new version of SH, will it be "Limited Edition" again?  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 08, 2014, 12:30:20 PM
...And if it is, will they once again spontaneously find dozens of extra copies in a corner of the warehouse once they sell out the initial batch?  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 08, 2014, 12:32:13 PM
Quote from: Modhail on September 08, 2014, 12:30:20 PM
...And if it is, will they once again spontaneously find dozens thousands of extra copies in a corner of the warehouse once they sell out the initial batch?  ::)

Fixed that for you! ;)


(...And yes, I think they will!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on September 08, 2014, 02:25:09 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 07, 2014, 10:13:50 PM
Better pic of the solar auxilla.
I really like these, think they'd work for inq28 pretty well.
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/fw5_zpsc62a04ad.jpg)

(http://hiddenfilms.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/exterminator-2-poster.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 08, 2014, 05:24:21 PM

GW Cease and Desist is probably already on its way back in time to 1984 for that.

Will watch it later  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on September 08, 2014, 06:11:28 PM
Forgeworld is on the right track and seems to do well despite their pricing. If GW proper wanted to make a killing, they would have done a full AdMech faction.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Somnambulist on September 09, 2014, 05:44:35 PM
Apparently Space Hulk is being reprinted.

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2014/09/09/93955/ (http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2014/09/09/93955/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 09, 2014, 05:49:27 PM
Are they then reopening the Specialist Games?  You always know a healthy company, their policies are the equivalent of a chicken running headless....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on September 09, 2014, 07:53:06 PM
http://grotorderly.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/white-dwarf-space-hulk.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 09, 2014, 07:58:28 PM
TBH, space hulk was among my least favorite of these games...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 09, 2014, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 09, 2014, 05:49:27 PM
Are they then reopening the Specialist Games? 

No. Space Hulk was published in its current version well after Specialist Games was KIA.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 09, 2014, 08:43:01 PM
If it's true I'll be getting it. I brought my 1st edition out and my 5 y/o loves playing it even though it's missing bits and pieces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on September 09, 2014, 08:49:32 PM
Isn't this the exact Space Hulk recently released as ultra-limited-buy-it-now-or-regret-eternally? :?

I guess they've seen the money Prodos made with the AvP KS, and they have decided to jump on their bandwagon with their clone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 09, 2014, 09:09:49 PM
Ugh, I so cant be bothered with GW drama anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 09, 2014, 09:51:18 PM
I'd like to get one, but I won't be camping overnight outside GW HQ, or staying up till midnight to buy it online the minute it's available. Nor will I be buying half a dozen in order to flog them off 6 weeks down the line. Hopefully it will be released in sensible numbers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 09, 2014, 10:40:34 PM
Quote from: Ajsalium on September 09, 2014, 08:49:32 PM
Isn't this the exact Space Hulk recently released as ultra-limited-buy-it-now-or-regret-eternally? :?

There are new missions and new counters for those missions but aside from that it is the same
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 10, 2014, 02:19:43 AM
And that's how they get around the limited edition of the previous one  lol Now they have a new improved Limited edition.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 10, 2014, 02:20:42 AM
In fact now you could probably look on ebay and get some good deals for the older edition (which is almost exactly the same) Well once the new edition comes out at least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on September 10, 2014, 07:06:11 AM
Quote from: Scurv on September 09, 2014, 09:59:17 PM
the quality of that set was very high.


Totally agree! The miniatures alone were pretty amazing! Easily the best termies EVER made!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on September 10, 2014, 09:32:02 AM
Looks like I chose a good time to offload my own copy onto ebay. Made a tidy profit :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 10, 2014, 12:52:00 PM
Anyone see this yet?  What does this mean for GW?  

Quote
MOD EDIT:

I had to remove the link since, after closer inspection, it was such a blatant advert for illegal copies of GW Miniatures that it falls under our Copyrighted Material rules. Basically, it's about a chinese company selling copies of GW Miniatures recast in some kind of resin, with highly variable quality as it appears.

Critical as we may be of GW's business practices and their non-sustainable model skull consumption rate, we will not endorse piracy of any kind.

Westfalia Chris


Sorry about that guys, I didnt mean to post something that could get the site into trouble, as I wrote after this post, I was just quite shocked at how blatant it all was and was curious what the community thought of this all and what it could mean for GW.   Thanks for pointing out the legal issues Chris.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 10, 2014, 01:00:05 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 10, 2014, 12:52:00 PM
What does this mean for GW? 

...Drop your prices and essentially snuff out the opportunity for thieves to undercut you and still make a margin?

Otherwise, whilst I am not surprised, I am saddened to see blatant theft in any form (regardless of who is stealing from whom).

(I also hope that this doesn't now turn into one of those horrible, horrible threads about IP/theft discussion...  :-X).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 10, 2014, 01:13:56 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 10, 2014, 01:00:05 PM
(I also hope that this doesn't now turn into one of those horrible, horrible threads about IP/theft discussion...  :-X).

Ditto.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 10, 2014, 01:34:26 PM
Ditto again, mine was more a practical rather than theoretic question.   It seems that if these Chinese chaps can turn out such nice kit, and openly advertise their work, what could this mean for GW?  Granted the stuff is resin, but GW people have become desensitized to Crapcast already.  It's interesting to see what they may do, especially since they are not in the best financial shape already.  I have no interest in this stuff even if I played their games still, but I have little doubt that others may not feel the same.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 10, 2014, 02:09:54 PM
Virtually every company on Earth uses Chinese manufacturing.

In many cases the same factories making the official items also make the "unofficial" versions to, or make it very easy for others to do.

They have the expertise available.

Quote from: Scurv on September 10, 2014, 01:51:59 PM
As dickheadish as I find GW at times they are far less dickheadish than a chinese tong. I know which pack of not so great guys I would rather give my money to.

Absolutely. But regardless I cannot see it impacting on the behavior or decision making of GW regards pricing.

Still - have there been any indications yet on pricing of the "new" version of the  previous limited edition  Space Hulk yet?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on September 10, 2014, 02:37:55 PM
I only wonder if wargaming as a hobby is active in China. If so, will we see a local company/game on the scene soon?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 10, 2014, 03:21:32 PM
If GW had treated consumers with a little more respect perhaps buyers would feel a little more loyalty towards them?

I'd buy from them in a second, my reservations being more about reliability than morality.

I recently bought some 'Fruit of the Loom' vests from China - complete and utter knock-offs (which I kind of guessed from the price) but the quality was fine and the customer service was surprisingly good. The only problem was that their version or 'XL' is more like the UK's version of 'M', so now my wife has swiped them all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 10, 2014, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Cubs on September 10, 2014, 03:21:32 PM
If GW had treated consumers with a little more respect perhaps buyers would feel a little more loyalty towards them?

I'd buy from them in a second, my reservations being more about reliability than morality.

I recently bought some 'Fruit of the Loom' vests from China - complete and utter knock-offs (which I kind of guessed from the price) but the quality was fine and the customer service was surprisingly good. The only problem was that their version or 'XL' is more like the UK's version of 'M', so now my wife has swiped them all.

Alot of the people who buy from "the chinaman" (as the main knock off caster is known) tend to be from /tg/ and treat it as some awesome secret only they know about.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 10, 2014, 04:35:24 PM
Please do keep it secret - the potential impact on GW and the whole issue is well worth discussing, but just as a small reminder of the forum rules, no links to recasters and no suggestions on how to purchase these.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 10, 2014, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on September 10, 2014, 04:35:24 PM
Please do keep it secret - the potential impact on GW and the whole issue is well worth discussing, but just as a small reminder of the forum rules, no links to recasters and no suggestions on how to purchase these.

Don't worry, i have no interest in sharing the means of attaining these illegal recasts. I personally may have no issue with recasting for personal use,but this is large scale criminal activity.
 
My point was that alot of the people who buy from these people do so not because of the savings ,but as a way of being edgy and sticking two fingers up to games workshop, you only have to monitor a thread on the topic(they come up fairly regularly) to see that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 10, 2014, 05:18:00 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 10, 2014, 04:45:13 PM
My point was that alot of the people who buy from these people do so not because of the savings ,but as a way of being edgy and sticking two fingers up to games workshop, you only have to monitor a thread on the topic(they come up fairly regularly) to see that.

Which is also sad mainly due to it being true, because it would be much more edgy not to actually play GW's game, put two fingers up at them playing something else.

- In the end its sad they are doing it, but its no surprise really that they are, apart from perhaps the professional level of the activity.

Beyond that, not much interested, in real or knock-off versions.

Still plenty of other things to spend me hobby money on are readily available.

But how much is that new Space Hulk slightly limited edition going to go on sale for?

I only have the first one, and if I had that one, I would not need the previous version of this new limited edition one.... ::)

Is it 4th Edition or 3 and a bit? Will it have more skulls?

Skulliness - This is more important/interesting than the man from China. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 10, 2014, 06:51:02 PM
I've seen the site where these are being pirated.  Two interesting points.

1) It may be cheaper than GW, but it's still not inexpensive by a long shot.
2) These are not some hero stick-it-to-the-man people who are just attacking the big dogs.  They're also pirating Perry and Dark Age minaitures.

If I want something GW I'll buy used (Squats and Necromunda mostly), but mostly I'll just not buy GW, and certainly not from these recasters.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 10, 2014, 07:18:54 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on September 10, 2014, 04:35:24 PM
Please do keep it secret - the potential impact on GW and the whole issue is well worth discussing, but just as a small reminder of the forum rules, no links to recasters and no suggestions on how to purchase these.

Hi Chris,  Did I make a mistake posting the YT vid?  I thought it was ok only because it was a review of products and the context I introduced it in.  Just wanted to check.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 10, 2014, 07:25:30 PM
Quote from: eilif on September 10, 2014, 06:51:02 PM
I've seen the site where these are being pirated.  Two interesting points.

1) It may be cheaper than GW, but it's still not inexpensive by a long shot.
2) These are not some hero stick-it-to-the-man people who are just attacking the big dogs.  They're also pirating Perry and Dark Age minaitures.

If I want something GW I'll buy used (Squats and Necromunda mostly), but mostly I'll just not buy GW, and certainly not from these recasters.

Agreed. I did the same and it warranted a 'Meh' from me.

I don't know why they'd bother pirating the Perry's (sounds like a good lyric for a Gilbert and Sullivan musical), I think their prices are very reasonable anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 10, 2014, 07:43:58 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 10, 2014, 07:18:54 PM
Hi Chris,  Did I make a mistake posting the YT vid?  I thought it was ok only because it was a review of products and the context I introduced it in.  Just wanted to check.

Well, I'm not too happy since that fellow also posted a link to the company, but I'd assumed you did it in good faith, and I agree it is a valid topic. If you'd prefer, you could edit your post to summarize the issue without the link, but for now, I'd say we discuss it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 10, 2014, 07:48:13 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on September 10, 2014, 07:43:58 PM
Well, I'm not too happy since that fellow also posted a link to the company, but I'd assumed you did it in good faith, and I agree it is a valid topic. If you'd prefer, you could edit your post to summarize the issue without the link, but for now, I'd say we discuss it.

Sounds good.  I certainly didnt mean to break any of the rules and will update it later once this conversation runs its course.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 10, 2014, 08:03:32 PM
Quote from: Cubs on September 10, 2014, 07:25:30 PM
Agreed. I did the same and it warranted a 'Meh' from me.

I don't know why they'd bother pirating the Perry's (sounds like a good lyric for a Gilbert and Sullivan musical), I think their prices are very reasonable anyway.

As i said, it isn't so much about the savings as it is about these people feeling like some sort of revolutionary by not giving money to a real company and not realizing how silly and self defeating they are or how their money is going into a criminal economy.the types of people i see actually using these services seem to feel they are ENTITLED to have miniatures and should always get their way and as such don't have to pay what the company charges, and don't quite understand that this is a hobby, not a human right.

( they piss me off basically)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 10, 2014, 08:09:56 PM
It's not impossible that they will be shut down. Selling on the side is one thing, but open advertising is still a bit of a line crosser.

To put this in perspective, at the beginning of this year a Chinese site started selling counterfeit Magic the Gathering cards at the best mass-quality I've seen in 20 years, though they were still detectable due to font spacing issues and use of the wrong font (even though the font used is a free, publicly available common font) - probably because they didn't have anyone on staff familiar enough with Roman script to make the obviously needed correction.

There was a shop selling them and everything, but surprisingly they were shut down (for reasons unknown). Thing is, these guys are small timers (i.e. no party connections) and the Chinese government has ready control of their internet, so a complaint by a western company will SOMETIMES still net results when the solution is easy enough (get the local bully boy squad to shut them down, or at least shut off their website).

That said, Magic is owned by Hasbro, who almost certainly have more weight and established contacts in China than GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 10, 2014, 08:16:04 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on September 10, 2014, 08:09:56 PM
That said, Magic is owned by Hasbro, who almost certainly have more weight and established contacts in China than GW.

Interesting story, and you might be right I do guess that Hasbro has quite some string to pull in china. Fascinating economical-political powers at work there I never thought about.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 10, 2014, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 10, 2014, 07:48:13 PM
Sounds good.  I certainly didnt mean to break any of the rules and will update it later once this conversation runs its course.

Its a valid thing to discuss, as regardless of the GW angle it cheapens a hobby, that I for one really enjoy. I have got home from work and had a better look at the video - doing so in the office is a bit tricky with it being open plan....

I Wanted to watch it through to the end but got a bit pissed off by it, as that, and the link, made me think he wants to justify it as ok. Maybe I am being a bit of a troll there but that pissed me off enough to stop watching. I might be wrong but I can't be bothered watching him further.

Not fussed how cheap or not they are, or how good, its not good for my hobby and the pleasure I am getting from it.

Biggest frustration being that I know they will always find willing customers for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 10, 2014, 08:34:31 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 10, 2014, 08:30:05 PM
thing is the illegal crime companies (yes companies read illicit, this is not mickey mouse anymore.) have no moral compass what so ever. Today their target is on GW because they can make a good earn on it. Tomorrow it might be fake anti malaria medicine or a bit of human trafficking or drugs or all 3 and more.

If you have any sort of basic morality you dont do business with cartels. It aint cool it has no edge and marks you as someone who is stupid and greedy or morally bankrupt and greedy. Like cartman says 'Not cool.'

I do believe i mentioned the idiocy of giving money to a criminal just below the part of my post you quoted :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 10, 2014, 08:40:28 PM
Personally I was not only shocked at how brazen the guy was in the video talking about the stuff, as if it were a legit product review, but with the fact that the company has a website.  To me, this openess was what i found to be so noteworthy.  I've heard of all sorts of recasters from Battletech, GW and even older Dark Future lines, as well as a ton of others, I've just never seen it done so openly.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 10, 2014, 08:46:40 PM
Quote
But how much is that new Space Hulk slightly limited edition going to go on sale for?

From what I've seen, it'll be going for $125USD/€100/£75.

Not actually too bad, and less than I expected. Still, the original's up in my loft, I have a couple of dozen of the original metal terminators (still my favourite), so I think I'll pass. Anyway, there's always next year, when they reissue it again ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 10, 2014, 08:56:30 PM
Not looking forward to seeing the NZ mark up though. This may be expensive to ship from overseas.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 10, 2014, 09:10:20 PM
Leaked WD images (C&D-ed off the internet by now...) put it at AU$ 190 and NZ$ 235.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on September 10, 2014, 09:30:40 PM
You may be interested to know that it has been known for established name companies to send other companies products purchased in the UK over to china, so they can get it copied for their store... A well known (and loved) general high street store did this at the time I temped at their HQ.

I was quite shocked as I really dislike purposeful IP infringement- It kills creativity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 10, 2014, 09:45:39 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 10, 2014, 08:30:05 PM
thing is the illegal crime companies (yes companies read illicit, this is not mickey mouse anymore.) have no moral compass what so ever. Today their target is on GW because they can make a good earn on it. Tomorrow it might be fake anti malaria medicine or a bit of human trafficking or drugs or all 3 and more.

Fake goods are also a way to launder money from all those even nastier activities: just don't get involved in supporting them.  The ethics of buying from thieves are entirely clear.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 10, 2014, 10:19:02 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on September 10, 2014, 09:45:39 PM
Fake goods are also a way to launder money from all those even nastier activities: just don't get involved in supporting them.  The ethics of buying from thieves are entirely clear.

Sadly pretty much everything can be used as a means of laundering money, but you're right, the chances are that alot of the money these recasters are getting is going somewhere worse.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on September 10, 2014, 10:29:42 PM
Quote from: Modhail on September 10, 2014, 09:10:20 PM
Leaked WD images (C&D-ed off the internet by now...)

Well, it took about two clicks from an image search for "Space Hulk, past week" to find them so maybe one more than for stuff that's "on the internet"...

Was that IP infringement too?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 10, 2014, 10:35:59 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on September 10, 2014, 10:29:42 PM
Well, it took about two clicks from an image search for "Space Hulk, past week" to find them so maybe one more than for stuff that's "on the internet"...

Was that IP infringement too?

Still up on beasts of war (they have gotten pretty ballsy since they changed their contract with wayland)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on September 10, 2014, 10:46:49 PM
Watched the video, I too switched it off a few minutes in. Was also slightly annoyed he knew he had bought an illegal product.

Best indication of his idiocracy? He's buying a resin rip-off to convert, when it would be a hundred times easier with the original plastic one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 11, 2014, 01:47:47 AM
Maybe shipping will make a difference then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 11, 2014, 08:59:24 AM
Quote from: Dolmot on September 10, 2014, 10:29:42 PM
Well, it took about two clicks from an image search for "Space Hulk, past week" to find them so maybe one more than for stuff that's "on the internet"...
Only goes to prove "What gets on the internet, stays on the internet".
GW C&D-ed one of the first sites to publicly show those images. Apparently GW thinks leaks are like vampires: You kill the first one, then all the copies that came from that source miraculously vanish as well. Surprisingly, reality doesn't work that way.  lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 11, 2014, 09:35:03 AM
So what's the deal then, legally-wise?

If a copyright doesn't apply in a certain country, surely that company is not bound to comply with copyright law?

So does the illegality come from selling in countries only where the copyright law does exist?

There is also the matter of the legal difference between counterfeit and copy. Counterfeit is if the company is claiming these items are GW, complete with logos, trademarks, etc.. Copies just look the same. The law applies differently on these - usually counterfeit is more strongly regulated.

I'm finding it quite tricky to get a straight answer as to what UK has to say on the matter. 'HM Revenue and Customs' says that counterfeit or patent-infringing goods are banned from being brought into the UK, or being sent into the UK, from anywhere in the world. It doesn't say whether this is for re-sale or personal use, so I'll assume it's both.

But if a country is not bound by copyright law, surely then the goods are not, by definition, infringing a patent so long as they don't claim to be actual GW models. Thus is it legal? Obviously we can say "It's not a good idea, for lots of reasons" but I can't help but think we are assuming it's illegal without actually knowing for sure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 11, 2014, 09:54:03 AM
Right, this one niggled me so much I actually braved the nightmarish thorny maze that is 'HM Revenue and Customs' phone enquiries.

I was surprised at how knotty the problem appeared to be for them, and I was passed around a bit before anyone could actually give me a definitive answer (the first guy I spoke to didn't know the difference between counterfeit and copy).

Right, it is not actually illegal either for the Chinese company to manufacture the goods or for you to buy them, IF they are not counterfeit (ie. claiming to be original GW models) AND you are not going to re-sell them.

However, if they infringe the IP rights of GW, by being illegal copies, then as soon as they hit the UK borders they are able to be seized and destroyed. So it's not illegal to buy them or have them, but they can be taken from you at any time.

I'd file that under 'Not Worth the 'Risk' to be honest, especially since the website in question clearly suggests the items are GW, which kicks you upstairs into 'counterfeit' territory.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 11, 2014, 10:26:55 AM
Quote from: Scurv on September 11, 2014, 10:22:36 AM
that is brave.

Unbelieveable. They have a voice-recognition system that doesn't recognise anything, combined with horribly cheesy 80's-style soft rock 'hold' music. It all seemed designed to make you go away and leave them alone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 11, 2014, 10:34:03 AM
Quote from: Cubs on September 11, 2014, 10:26:55 AM
It all seemed designed to make you go away and leave them alone.

...You should try ringing BT or UPS then.  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 11, 2014, 11:36:12 AM
Let's get back on topic, gentlemen. Remember, any true GW fan will not swap the arduous tortures inflicted to them by their beloved company for any run-of-the-mill telecom provider or government agency. Knock-offs, all of them. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 11, 2014, 12:16:19 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 11, 2014, 10:50:53 AM
try vodaphone. Its like drilling holes through your skull into your brain.

I make it my policy to actively prevent them from getting any custom I can. Personal reasons, and I'll leave that discussion there.  :-X


Quote from: Westfalia Chris on September 11, 2014, 11:36:12 AM
Let's get back on topic, gentlemen. Remember, any true GW fan will not swap the arduous tortures inflicted to them by their beloved company for any run-of-the-mill telecom provider or government agency. Knock-offs, all of them. ;)

Agreed!

__________________________________________________________

In other news (maybe not so new), I saw this (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/08/12/space-hulk-ascension-edition/) about Space Hulk Ascension. Seems that GW are pushing SH hard on all fronts, and I wonder if the timing of this game would clash with the proposed SH board game...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 11, 2014, 12:22:48 PM
That Space Hull Ascension looks fun. I remember playing the first Space Hulk game on the computer 20+ years ago and it was great in theory, but had a lot of annoying quirks to it (like, your Terminator would sometimes stand stupidly at the end of a corridor and watch a horde of genestealers charging towards him without firing his weapon ... for reasons unknown).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 11, 2014, 01:13:50 PM
Solar Auxilia.

Popped into my head why I am liking the design, and its nothing to do with GW and formerly known as Imp Guards.

Its the similarities to the classic diving suits, Jules Verne echoes bouncing around me brain cells.

I would rather use them for a 20,000 leagues below the sea thing, or Steam punk project even, than for a pre-heresy GW thing.

Still.

Its still GW.

Meh.

But. But. But. Space hulk is looking more interesting by the moment.

Feel the need to look in my old version box - hmmm project  pending...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 11, 2014, 02:05:36 PM
Actually, that's not a bad idea  8)

Aquanaughts or some such. A little bit steampunk for me but certainly have potential  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 11, 2014, 02:08:17 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on September 11, 2014, 01:13:50 PM
Feel the need to look in my old version box - hmmm project  pending...
Heh, project already well underway in my case...

Oh, and I thought this might amuse some of you. From the September 2009 White Dwarf:
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h213/Modhail/WIP/Space%20Hulk%203D/WP_20140911_001.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 11, 2014, 02:23:49 PM
Yeah! Love that. Classic GW nonsense.

- its already OOP- never to be seen again - just prior to its being released. Again..

I think earlier suggestions may be more right - they found some in the back of the warehouse forgotten about that did not get used as an alternative firewood.

That or they got them knocked up cheap in China   ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 11, 2014, 02:53:10 PM
Quote from: Cubs on September 11, 2014, 12:22:48 PM
I remember playing the first Space Hulk game on the computer 20+ years ago

I've probably mentioned it before, but an old magazine review for the Sega Saturn* version got me interested in GW (and therefore wargaming) long before I knew GW was a thing. When I stumbled across GW Belfast, recognising a genestealer model in the BBRB got me hooked.

*I still have one, and am not ashamed. ;) Took me a while to get SH for it though, and even by that time you could say I was dabbling in the retro gaming hobby. It's not very good and a bit buggy, which might partly explain why my favourite way to play was from the green glowy map with graphics reminiscent of games from 20 years before that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 11, 2014, 02:59:00 PM
Quote from: Vermis on September 11, 2014, 02:53:10 PM
Sega Saturn*[...]

*I still have one, and am not ashamed. ;) Took me a while to get SH for it though, and even by that time you could say I was dabbling in the retro gaming hobby. It's not very good and a bit buggy, which might partly explain why my favourite way to play was from the green glowy map with graphics reminiscent of games from 20 years before that.

I still have a Mega Drive and played through the whole of Syndicate twice on it - and used the minimap in the corner much more than the rest of the screen... ::)


Anyway, as somebody who bought the 2009 SH3E at the time, I am rather pissed off that something "Limited Edition" seems to be rather distinctly less than limited... Still, at least I didn't have to get mine through EBay at silly prices, so I guess that's something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 11, 2014, 03:44:00 PM
There is a new mobile version that is actually really good....and significantly cheaper :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on September 11, 2014, 04:15:13 PM
The use of misleading advertising has always been something I have found to be of particular annoyance with GW, even as a young teen. Claims of special edition figures in special edition box sets with inflated prices only to become available for general sale in store.

Taking a leaf from the esteemed LAF member above, I looked into claims of limited print runs etc and how these comply with trading standards and CAP/ASA. As I've always suspected but never bothered to check, whilst underhand and in some cases 'technically' illegal, these processes are very common and, for the most part, unenforceable.

As to claims from 2009 that Spacehulk would never be reprinted. Well that's 'technically' true as the new and improved Spacehulk (which is completely different by the way and doesnt include just the same stuff as before on the same run) has completely new scenarios and tokens...

 ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 11, 2014, 04:28:14 PM
Yeah see. new tokens!

Totally different product/limited edition thing.

I bet they use different cardboard boxes and artwork to - a sort of aged faded look, older  in comparison to the 2009 limited edition version - sort of like it was left on a shelf somewhere for 5 years or so gathering dust.

Probably find later there will be another new product available via the website - token booster packs - for the discerning owner of the limited edition 2009 version so they can "upgrade" to the latest limited edition version ;D

Bet the bloody things have skulls on them to...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 11, 2014, 05:06:28 PM
@ Mr Brown:

Well, I know that "Limited Edition" is basically unenforceable, and that's why it's so irritating; it's taking advantage of people and then acting all surprised and hurt about it when people complain...

But then, I guess it's like the many Games Day miniatures - some countries receive a GD model as LE, but it is freely available everywhere else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on September 11, 2014, 05:53:44 PM
It's worth noting that limited edition and special edition are two very different things. Analogous to flavour and flavoured...

 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 11, 2014, 06:04:47 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 11, 2014, 02:59:00 PM
I still have a Mega Drive and played through the whole of Syndicate twice on it - and used the minimap in the corner much more than the rest of the screen... ::)


Anyway, as somebody who bought the 2009 SH3E at the time, I am rather pissed off that something "Limited Edition" seems to be rather distinctly less than limited... Still, at least I didn't have to get mine through EBay at silly prices, so I guess that's something.
Just bought a megadrive bundle for a tenner. :)
Apologies for thread deviation
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 11, 2014, 10:28:28 PM
Just wanted to make one clarification. Some folks seem to be under the impression that the term "Imperial Guard" has been dropped. It hasn't . "Imperial Guard" appears in the Astra Militarum codex and even in the advertising for the codex. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Astra-Militarum-EN

I think it's a silly term, but it's in line with the way GW is taking pseudo Latin to the next level as they have with several of their other IG products and books.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 12, 2014, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: eilif on September 11, 2014, 10:28:28 PM
Just wanted to make one clarification. Some folks seem to be under the impression that the term "Imperial Guard" has been dropped. It hasn't . "Imperial Guard" appears in the Astra Militarum codex and even in the advertising for the codex. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Astra-Militarum-EN

I think it's a silly term, but it's in line with the way GW is taking pseudo Latin to the next level as they have with several of their other IG products and books.

The term "Imperial Guard" is not a term GW can really trademark, but Astra Militarum is more unusual and therefore can be trademarked.

The advertising blurb mentions it so that people "know" what the new name is. I think the next Codex will maybe mention it in the book introduction (like the Space Marines being called the Adeptus Astartes), but that all other references will be Astra Militarum from then on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 12, 2014, 11:23:34 AM
Pity any authors who write a book about 'Spots the Adeptus Astartes'. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on September 12, 2014, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Scurv on September 10, 2014, 02:39:52 PM
I went to nerd central in thailand and it was all gundam kits and card games

Was in Hearns Hobbies today and saw some nice looking 1:350 and 1:700 modern helicopter kits from a Chinese company called 'Trumpeter' (I'm just about to start a massive 'Hind Commander' binge). They were in clear plastic with multiple parts (WTF - it's a tiny scale to have more than 2-3 parts per model), but price was good. Reviews online haven't been though (mainly inaccurate designs of their naval ships).

Back on track - I think releasing Space Hulk has been misunderstood by GW. It sells, but they haven't figured out why. Once they realise board games are not the same as wargames, then we can continue to enjoy both and this wargames for 6 year olds business they are making will end.

Who am I kidding, there's a 6 year old kid in all of us.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 12, 2014, 12:36:19 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 12, 2014, 09:52:13 AM
The term "Imperial Guard" is not a term GW can really trademark, but Astra Militarum is more unusual and therefore can be trademarked.

The advertising blurb mentions it so that people "know" what the new name is. I think the next Codex will maybe mention it in the book introduction (like the Space Marines being called the Adeptus Astartes), but that all other references will be Astra Militarum from then on.

Yes, that.

It is likely about as copy-right-able as skulls, they won't stop using either, but they will increasingly use "AStra Militarum" in future as no doubt you hit the nail in that its copyrighted, soon if not already everywhere to ensure IP and guarantee the future of the Cease and Desist department.
 

And of course the target audience is not really meant to be old enough to remember the old name....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 12, 2014, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 12, 2014, 09:52:13 AM
The term "Imperial Guard" is not a term GW can really trademark, but Astra Militarum is more unusual and therefore can be trademarked.

I don't think the Imperial guard term will disappear, mostly because it is in so much of the black library material, but I think your' spot-on about the reason for the change.  Astra Militarum is certainly a means for more trademark protection.

I wonder if they'll start more comprehensively putting "Space Marine" -which they seem to be loosing control of- in  the background in favor of "Adeptus Asartes".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on September 12, 2014, 03:28:20 PM
Quote from: eilif on September 12, 2014, 02:09:49 PM
I wonder if they'll start more comprehensively putting "Space Marine" -which they seem to be loosing control of- in  the background in favor of "Adeptus Asartes".

I think so. I think the next codex will be Codex: Adeptus Astartes. I'm 99% certain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on September 12, 2014, 05:51:27 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 11, 2014, 05:06:28 PM
@ Mr Brown:

Well, I know that "Limited Edition" is basically unenforceable, and that's why it's so irritating; it's taking advantage of people and then acting all surprised and hurt about it when people complain...

But then, I guess it's like the many Games Day miniatures - some countries receive a GD model as LE, but it is freely available everywhere else.

In the words of Jerry Seinfeld, 'Limited Edition' means 'Limited to the number we can sell...'  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on September 12, 2014, 08:51:46 PM
It's limited if for the existing number of copies x ∃M∈ℜ : x≤M.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on September 12, 2014, 09:31:05 PM
 lol

Bounded Editions. You should copyright that idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on September 12, 2014, 09:43:18 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 11, 2014, 02:59:00 PM
I still have a Mega Drive and played through the whole of Syndicate twice on it - and used the minimap in the corner much more than the rest of the screen... ::)


Anyway, as somebody who bought the 2009 SH3E at the time, I am rather pissed off that something "Limited Edition" seems to be rather distinctly less than limited... Still, at least I didn't have to get mine through EBay at silly prices, so I guess that's something.

I know its off topic but I just have to say Syndicate was simply one of the greatest computer games ever ... when my cyborg reacted to a threat before I had seen it I swear it seemed alive! Ah good times!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 12, 2014, 10:55:05 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on September 10, 2014, 09:45:39 PM
Fake goods are also a way to launder money from all those even nastier activities: just don't get involved in supporting them. 

Like banking? HSBC was laundering money for the Zeta Cartel
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 12, 2014, 10:59:26 PM
Visited the GW site for another matter, and saw all the Space Hulk 'BUY IT NOW!' stuff splashed across the front page. I thought this when I heard of the reissue, but it really cemented the word in my head: desperation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 12, 2014, 11:53:22 PM
So... £75 in the UK, (NZD $150), $235, in here in New Zealand. $85 postage? Anyone know how much it would actually cost to post from the UK?

Actually, just looked at nzpost and they do a forwarding service that should cost me $12.50 + $9per kg, let's say 3kg, that's still a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 13, 2014, 04:12:10 AM
Okay, so I pre-ordered it. I've always had fond memories of this game and my son is also really into it (at age 5) with my old set, but that is missing lots of bits and pieces so it will be good to have an updated version. No didn't pay ridiculous Southern Hemisphere prices. You can have some of my money GW but not at your horribly unfair prices, I'd rather give that money to my own postal service and the UK one. Probably the last thing I'll buy from GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 13, 2014, 04:31:28 AM
Promises, promises  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 13, 2014, 04:49:07 AM
Yeah, until they bring out space hulk 5th edition.  :D

Or at least bring back specialist games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 13, 2014, 07:30:26 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 13, 2014, 04:49:07 AM
Or at least bring back specialist games.

Not much of a business man but I think this would quite possibly save them... As long as they don't change the fundamentals.

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 13, 2014, 07:44:31 AM
Well I think it would bring back a lot of the older players (by older I mean those that aren't in the target 12-16 or whatever it is age bracket). I have a huge necromunda collection still awaiting paint. Scavvies, Cawdor, Orlock, Goliaths, Pit slaves, Ratskins and enough under hive scum, bounty hunters, and wyrds to make another full gang.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 13, 2014, 10:36:49 AM
£75 is still too rich for my blood. I'm not saying it's not worth the money (the miniatures alone are a goodly haul), but it's just a big lump of cash to splash out on something that, for me, is probably not going to get played much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 13, 2014, 11:11:28 AM
It's about par for the course for that kind of boardgame.  Retail price for Descent second edition is £65 and that has a similar setup - 40 minis, card dungeon tiles and a box full of chits and extras.

A quick look at the GW website shows that the figures would cost about £140 retail.

If it's too much for you then it's too much, fair enough, but it isn't a bad price.

Hang on, have I started defending GW?  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 13, 2014, 11:23:37 AM
Probaby have gone a bit soft on them - I've started buying stuff that I think may go OOP in the near future.  My uruk scouts fill out a decent orc army for me, and there are a number of other LotR figures I'd like before GW cans the line.  I've always wanted a lizardman army too, not necessarily to play with WFB.

The next of the rumours from our friends in Spain suggests that there may be a WFB 9th announcement as early as a week today.  So let's see.  The secondary market is definitely spooked - I got the hardback WFB 8th rulebook for £5 on eBay this week!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 13, 2014, 11:52:41 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on September 13, 2014, 11:11:28 AM
If it's too much for you then it's too much, fair enough, but it isn't a bad price.

Hang on, have I started defending GW?  ;D


No, it's a fair point. Like I say, it's not that it's not good value for money, it's just that I don't think I personally want it that much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 13, 2014, 12:33:46 PM
Well, I am almost undecided  ::)

Space Hulk.

Now I have actually gone to the GW site, looked at it, got annoyed with the 360 degree nonsense loading individual images..

My initial glow of interest has faded.

I have looked, looked at my mountain, looked again.

 Although interested I am having difficulty being actually interested enough, even if its good value for a GW product from the point of view of their pricing.

Now from the point of view of them actually bringing back some of the specialist  games - would be nice. Epic, Mordheim, Necromunda etc, luverly.

But than them messing up/updating the rules. Adding to them via digital downloads, etc. Charging silly money for everything.

Releasing new minis with to many skulls - might be difficult at 6mm scale but hey, they could do it if anyone can.

not sure I would want them to do it, almost can't see them making any of them better in any way, with the way that they actually do things, by actually supporting them now.

hmmm.... Mordheim with a new version Nagash themed/based force anyone?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 13, 2014, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on September 13, 2014, 12:33:46 PM
hmmm.... Mordheim with a new version Nagash themed/based force anyone?

Khemri, city of the dead.
In the ancient city of Khemri, capital of Nagash's realm, there may lie the key to defeating the King of all Necromancy. An oppressive place, it is built by stacking the skulls of the fallen into towering buildings. Brave adventurers are sent by the realms of Man, Elf and Dwarf to the city to search for a way to stop Nagash. Others, like the Dark Elves and Skaven have also sent covert emmisaries, but with far more nefarious goals. One thing all the cautious infiltrators have is common, is that they are forced to cover themselves in skulls and bones to avoid detection by the unsleeping dead....
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 13, 2014, 01:23:50 PM
 :o

Damn.

Think you just called it.

That's got so much skull possibility in it, its off the scale.

Add it to the future product release list, if its not already.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 13, 2014, 01:49:44 PM
Modhail: lol

Quote from: Momotaro on September 13, 2014, 11:23:37 AM
Probaby have gone a bit soft on them - I've started buying stuff that I think may go OOP in the near future.  My uruk scouts fill out a decent orc army for me, and there are a number of other LotR figures I'd like before GW cans the line.

Ditto! If I can at least scrape a few dwarfs-with-legs and 'sensible' orcs before they pull the plug, I'll be reasonably satisfied.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 13, 2014, 06:43:26 PM
Quote from: Vermis on September 13, 2014, 01:49:44 PM
Modhail: lol

Ditto! If I can at least scrape a few dwarfs-with-legs and 'sensible' orcs before they pull the plug, I'll be reasonably satisfied.

Same here before it is oop and silly money on eBay,I bought gaunts ghosts ,but need more hunter orcs lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on September 14, 2014, 07:52:40 AM
Space hulk sold out in a couple of hours on pre order. A few friends of mine very annoyed as they haven't been able to get a copy. Know of at least one person though who has registered his family with online GW accounts so he could pick up twelve boxes. Three max per person doesn't mean much to those out to scalp the rest of their hobby community... :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on September 14, 2014, 08:44:37 AM
I think that is a new stragety from GW to create more hype and a sense of exclusiveness about their products. Nagash also sold out very quickly. But came back in stock again. So will Space Hulk. Even if it is an exclusive once in a lifetime one print only. Just give it a few years and they will print it again...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 14, 2014, 10:57:07 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on September 14, 2014, 08:44:37 AM
I think that is a new stragety from GW to create more hype and a sense of exclusiveness about their products.

Crying "Wolf!" this often will not last long as a successful marketing strategy.

I might have been interested in a hard-bound book with all three SH expansions for Ultramarines, Dark Angels and Space Wolves in it, but over-priced digital editions from the i-fail store is as about as appealing to me as swimming for my life naked in the Arctic sea whilst being chased by a hungry polar bear...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 14, 2014, 11:23:20 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 14, 2014, 10:57:07 AM
Crying "Wolf!" this often will not last long as a successful marketing strategy.

I might have been interested in a hard-bound book with all three SH expansions for Ultramarines, Dark Angels and Space Wolves in it, but over-priced digital editions from the i-fail store is as about as appealing to me as swimming for my life naked in the Arctic sea whilst being chased by a hungry polar bear...

I thought the Ultramarines expansion was "paint your models blue"  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 14, 2014, 05:00:35 PM
Spacehulk doesn't do anything for me,preferred the original stealers as well. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 15, 2014, 10:35:07 AM
Sad.

I missed another opportunity to give GW some of my money.

I will just have to keep it for something else then - put it towards the mortgage maybe

now will have to wait 5 years for the next re-issue of the limited edition SH.

On the plus side, when it does come around again, the retail price should be the same as the over the top ebay OOP pricing  :D

Still now will they have to state whether tis' 2009 limited edition or 2014 limited edition  with extra tokens....?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 15, 2014, 02:31:57 PM
Space Hulk sells based on nostalgia value. There are a lot better survival horror games available on the market now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 15, 2014, 02:46:05 PM
I just got an email from GW telling me to rush and get my 100 euro copy of Space Hulk!  Absolutely once in a lifetime offer is almost out (until reprinted in a few years)

Oh, and Tom Vassel dissing the game on his YT boardgame show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ5tXWSHHcM
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on September 15, 2014, 06:34:22 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on September 15, 2014, 02:31:57 PM
Space Hulk sells based on nostalgia value. There are a lot better survival horror games available on the market now.

I must admit I very quickly got bored with the 2009 version. I ended up selling it due to lack of wanting to play anymore. I have seen 1st Edition being played and it looked WAY more interesting, but to bring that back would challenge the staleness of the 40k fluff as it stands now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 15, 2014, 06:52:53 PM
Quote from: Gibby on September 15, 2014, 06:34:22 PM
I must admit I very quickly got bored with the 2009 version. I ended up selling it due to lack of wanting to play anymore. I have seen 1st Edition being played and it looked WAY more interesting, but to bring that back would challenge the staleness of the 40k fluff as it stands now.

1st Edition wasn't more interesting - in fact I think less so because there was less variety in the Marines. That said, each edition had things I liked, and for 1st, Expansions like Deathwing were cool enough but hard - Genestealer was pretty broken though.

I say this as somebody who has all three editions (well, not counting the 2014 edition I guess... ::))
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 15, 2014, 06:56:25 PM
It's 9.99 on the ipad and you can play it whenever you want 'right out of the box' :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 15, 2014, 07:13:50 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 15, 2014, 06:56:25 PM
It's 9.99 on the ipad and you can play it whenever you want 'right out of the box' :D

Buggy and slow
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on September 15, 2014, 07:18:06 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on September 14, 2014, 05:00:35 PM
preferred the original stealers as well. :D


The original plastic stealers were nice. And surprisingly finely detailed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 15, 2014, 11:42:53 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 15, 2014, 11:01:49 PM
If I was the shot caller in the GW yard my orders would have been to make a new space hulk core game with modern mechanics and broader scope ...

They will sell out this new version and make a tidy pile of cash. I doubt that anyone in the company cares about the long-term viability of the firm
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on September 16, 2014, 12:55:12 AM
What are some of the 'better' spaceship dungeon crawl games you guys have alluded to? I like Space Hulk quite a bit, wondering what else is out there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 16, 2014, 02:40:03 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on September 16, 2014, 12:55:12 AM
What are some of the 'better' spaceship dungeon crawl games you guys have alluded to?

Sedition Wars. The new second edition rulebook clears the rules up, the game has a lot more replay value than Space Hulk and the background is interesting. I especially like the monster that can swallow troopers, infect them and the spit them back out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 16, 2014, 09:07:23 AM
A casual list of alternative games in a similar genre, that I know of, and in no particular order:

- Sedition Wars
- Project Pandora
- Incursion
- Level 7
- Doom (FFG game tie-in)
- Gears of War (FFG game tie-in)

I'm certain there are more, but those are the ones that I know of that you can actually go out and buy.

The real issue is that these are all more complicated that Space Hulk.

SH has (or at least, had) very limited model types for each side, and the game was entirely about the cat-and-mouse aspect of the crawl.

The other games, whilst more arguably interesting, do add quite a lot more in terms of rules, special weapons, different monsters, etc.

The problem for me was not that SH didn't have more rules (it did, and introduced other Tyranids, other Marine Terminators, Genestealer Hybrids, Traitor Marines, etc), but that all the extra rules did was make the same game take longer and make it harder for new players to pick up the game. I like that SH is fairly quick to play, and I think that 3E got the balance mostly right between variety and rules-blargh.

I also like that despite needing a very big playing area, there is a reasonable amount of flexibility in the layout and space on the tiles. Some games have limited layout possibilities (like Incursion), and some are too cramped to play on when there are lots of models (like Project Pandora).

In summary then, in the same way that HeroQuest was a stupidly simple game, the joy if SH is in the imagery and the low entry requirements in terms of effort to play. As an intro game for non-wargamers, it does this very well indeed.

I do agree with Scurv that I'd have preferred to see another game (even based on the rules and premise of SH) rather than a re-release of 3E. A Tyranid invasion of the Iyanden craftworld would have been great - a nod to an old boardgame, but with the benefit of all the clout that GW has now in terms of making the game a high-quality experience. Ah well, yet another wasted opportunity I guess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 16, 2014, 09:45:19 AM
As longs as you have the rules for space hulk you can use it in other ways if you are wanting too. You could swap your genestealers for Zombies (the running sort) and the terminators for survivors. It would be easy to change the scenario objectives to fit this sort of game and you could use a maze like an office or some dockyards with containers etc. That could be a fun twist to the space hulk rules
(Just rambling here really)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 16, 2014, 11:14:24 AM
I agree with Major_Gilbear's agreement with Scurv.  :D
Additionally, Games Workshop had, in the past, built up a fairly sizeable stable of board games, most of whose names are still trademarked (copyrighted, registered, whatever, they're under IP-lock).
While they were of varying quality, GW could easily pick one, redo it with the benefit of several years (decades?) of hindsight and do this for one each year...  Or just farm them out wholesale to Fantasy Flight (though this has some issues due to the no-miniatures embargo GW has put on FFG's license) and reap the royalties.
I wish they would. I'd even prefer them bringing back the Troll games over a copypaste Space Hulk rehash every five years, as much as I love Space Hulk.
It would add a regular influx of freshness to GW's assortment. Now that they've slash-and-burned themselves back to only the "Core 3" (or is that core 2.5?) everything they put out seems so stale and barren.  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 16, 2014, 11:45:09 AM
Quote
GW could easily pick one, redo it with the benefit of several years (decades?) of hindsight

 lol

Sorry for that, but... ain't helped 40K so far!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 16, 2014, 12:50:52 PM
I agree with something or other  :D

In regards to re-releasing/revamping past successes, ie board games. I don't think they are  desperate enough yet to reach back in time for that.

SH in its current iteration has been no more than a re-release of a previous and recent success.

They are not going to jump back 20 years yet to pull out some old successes.

I was tempted to get this SH, granted not enough to actually bother.

I have other options already on the shelf, and it gives me nothing actually "new" not even a real enhancement on previous versions (but it has new tokens - meh... - in the box).

Right! random change of GW thing.

Reading an old White Dwarf the other night, specifically a nice article about camouflage schemes used by the Legions Astartes and the Imperial Guard, both non standard and codex standard ones... Seems even as recent as 1988 all the space marines were sensible marines  ::)

Made me even less bothered about adding "new" GW product to my mountain.

Now where are me ultramarines, I feel the need to camouflage them retro 80's Astartes style...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 16, 2014, 01:04:35 PM
Surprised with the new mad max movie ,dark future hadn't been resurrected .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 16, 2014, 02:21:43 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 16, 2014, 01:42:55 PM
Maybe its missing the point wanting something new off GW. THeir market model might be churn based between a certain age demographic and anyone left after those years is just a bonus. If you are churning then the same old thing is always new to your demographic.

I can agree with that! You are right I should stop thinking they will actually do something new..

I am not the target audience

Change rules to generate purchases of the latest killer army etc.

Re-issue the limited edition stuff again for the current crop of customers..

Exactly what we see them constantly doing and one of the things - apart from price - that pisses off all us "old people"  ::)

On the plus side it does give us old gits some opportunities via the likes of evil bay when the current targets want to sell their old stuff to get the latest stuff...

Still I don't think they are desperate enough yet to be digging up really old product like dark future etc. I cannot see that happening any time soon. They probably have not even noticed the resurrection of MAD MAX yet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 16, 2014, 03:20:09 PM
Quote from: Vermis on September 16, 2014, 11:45:09 AM
Sorry for that, but... ain't helped 40K so far!

That's true... I think the best way to help 40K at this point in time is to take it out behind the shed...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on September 16, 2014, 03:42:30 PM
The one main area of 40k that I really like still is the "home front". I really like some of the Black Library books about Inquisitors (Eisenhorn, Ravenor) and Arbites (Enforcer: Shira Calpurnia), not to mention the Confrontation/Necromunda fluff, and think they could make a beautiful new skirmish setting. It would be an ideal setting to bring back Genestealer Cults too. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot by not even considering it. They could sell tons of Arbites, Genestealer Hybrids and gangers if they'd only release them and a strong rule set to support them. It'd only be a matter of time until fan-made codexes for Arbites and Genestealer Cults drove sales through the roof.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 17, 2014, 08:36:54 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 17, 2014, 08:13:08 PM
I think one thing GW has not really clued onto well is rules have a shelf life and ALL their rules are sadly out of date. UGOIGO, buckets of dice, huge stat trees for the figs, complicated hit penetrate would rules, lots n lots a tables and matrixes etc etc.

Not good.

In fact I think these days the most popular games actually being played (as opposed to just being in the collection) are the slick fast ones.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I play skirmish games like Strange Aeons/VuK, SBH, and LotR:SBG, and battle games like SAGA and God of Battles. I own quite a few editions of Warhamster and 40K, but have played the first 1 time, and the latter maybe 3 times over the years. The rules just never really were able to motivate me for collecting and painting an army, but having owned SAGA less than a year, and GoB a few months, I already am working seriously on creating 3-4 armies to use with the systems. Proxy armies in most cases, but the rules actually compel me to carve huge chunks out of the lead/plastic Alps, and get them ready for the table!

Which again accentuates the fact that good rules are 95% of the motivation for me - the minis 4%, and the fluff maybe about 1% (I'm foremost a gamer, not a miniatures painter).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 17, 2014, 08:39:28 PM
yes, the GW games, even the skirmish games like Necromunda required at least an entire afternoon to play, not really good for those that just want to have a quick game. Simple rules that have depth and strategy are really the way to go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 17, 2014, 08:46:36 PM
Quote from: Argonor on September 17, 2014, 08:36:54 PM
I wholeheartedly agree.

I play skirmish games like Strange Aeons/VuK, SBH, and LotR:SBG, and battle games like SAGA and God of Battles. I own quite a few editions of Warhamster and 40K, but have played the first 1 time, and the latter maybe 3 times over the years. The rules just never really were able to motivate me for collecting and painting an army, but having owned SAGA less than a year, and GoB a few months, I already am working seriously on creating 3-4 armies to use with the systems. Proxy armies in most cases, but the rules actually compel me to carve huge chunks out of the lead/plastic Alps, and get them ready for the table!

Which again accentuates the fact that good rules are 95% of the motivation for me - the minis 4%, and the fluff maybe about 1% (I'm foremost a gamer, not a miniatures painter).
i really like the way 40k actually works (maybe it's cus it's what i started with) i just think its' a ball ache at such a big scale , so i'm in the middle of writing up a way of playing 40k at a 8 to 10 figure skirmish game.same core system, but expanding it a bit aswell and shrinking it down.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 17, 2014, 08:46:52 PM
I think it was our own great old one, Matakishi, who pointed out that the mechanics of the W-family are constructed to give the impression that a lot of things are happening, while, in fact, only little does; the many dice-rolls level out the results, which in fact could be obtained in a much simpler way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 17, 2014, 08:50:43 PM
agreed, hit wound armour could actually be combined into 1 roll and I'm sure you could also include attack amounts in their as well. Never understood why a lumbering troll could attack more than a regular elf (maybe 1 big swipe is enough to cleave through a few models but definitely not attack 1 model numerous times)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 17, 2014, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: Argonor on September 17, 2014, 08:46:52 PM
I think it was our own great old one, Matakishi, who pointed out that the mechanics of the W-family are constructed to give the impression that a lot of things are happening, while, in fact, only little does; the many dice-rolls level out the results, which in fact could be obtained in a much simpler way.

So go for a more d&d style of doing things?
Roll against Armour, then roll damage (or in this case, make a save).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on September 17, 2014, 08:58:52 PM
I agree with the last comments.

A gaming system in which you have to check a table while playing is completely obsolete by now.
Personally I think that it was WotC's third edition of D&D (year 2000) that established the new standard, unlike the previous AD&D system (which belongs to the same "rules generation" as GW products).

The new WFB may be a step in that direction. Those mounted lieutenants of Nagash have only one line of stats, instead of one for the character and one for the mounts. We'll need to wait and see.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 17, 2014, 09:00:54 PM
Quote from: Ajsalium on September 17, 2014, 08:58:52 PM
I agree with the last comments.

A gaming system in which you have to check a table while playing is completely obsolete by now.
Personally I think that it was WotC's third edition of D&D (year 2000) that established the new standard, unlike the previous AD&D system (which belongs to the same "rules generation" as GW products).


You should try 5th ed, it's one of the less math-y systems i've played .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 17, 2014, 10:51:11 PM
As to lots of dice for it's own sake I very much agree.  Isn't there a quote somewhere where a GW developer says that the armor save was added just to give the other player something to roll?

I would disagree about necro though. I've only played it a couple of times, but it seems to crackle right along.  I think that's because it's the size of game where mechanics as crunchy as 40k really belong.  I.E. small-in-scope skirmishes.  I went back and tried 2nd edition 40k a couple years ago.  I didn't like it, but I did find myself thinking at several points that this would make a very good small skirmish game...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 18, 2014, 07:22:44 AM
Quote from: nic-e on September 17, 2014, 08:52:19 PM
So go for a more d&d style of doing things?
Roll against Armour, then roll damage (or in this case, make a save).

Kind of, but without the save (radical change, I know); determine the roll needed to wound on only 2 stats, a combination of weapon/balistic skill and weapon strength, and a combination of armour and toughness. If you succeed, you wound, and some weapons may cause more than one wound (or rolling more than one dice to attack, and/or beating your target number with a certain amount, and/or using exploding sixes, whatever).

The existing stat-lines could still be used, and the combat stats be calculated up front if there was a fixed formula for it, but I really would like the stat-line to be simplified, too.

Quote from: eilif on September 17, 2014, 10:51:11 PM
As to lots of dice for it's own sake I very much agree.  Isn't there a quote somewhere where a GW developer says that the armor save was added just to give the other player something to roll?

I would disagree about necro though. I've only played it a couple of times, but it seems to crackle right along.  I think that's because it's the size of game where mechanics as crunchy as 40k really belong.  I.E. small-in-scope skirmishes.  I went back and tried 2nd edition 40k a couple years ago.  I didn't like it, but I did find myself thinking at several points that this would make a very good small skirmish game...

I have actually never played Necromunda, allthough I have the game, but to some extent, more details (and thus slower gameplay) are acceptable in games with only a handful of models on each team.

I think it's the whole concept of (by now) very old-fashioned, cumbersome rules, combined with the need to paint droves of rank-and-file that are really just there to allow you to field your powerful characters/monsters, that never appealed to me.

I prefer games where it matters, how you move your actual troops, and not what special weapons/magic items/whatever I combined on my leader model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 18, 2014, 09:13:20 AM
@ Argonor & Scurv:

I think you might like the Warmachine / Hordes mechanics more if you haven't already tried them.

They way that core mechanic works is that you roll to beat the target's defence (skill + modifiers + dice roll), and if successful you then roll to beat their armour (damage + modifiers + dice roll) with the difference between your score and their armour value being the wounds the target model takes. Most troops have one wound, but some characters and all big monsters and army generals have multiple wounds.

The only downside is that Warmachine is based around lots of modifiers to modify a 2D6 dice roll (although sometimes you roll more than 2D6). This creates a weighted result for most dice rolls, and also makes it unsuitable for bigger scale combat.

That said, you could still use the same form, and just roll a D12 instead of a 2D6 so that you can roll a whole unit all at once instead of model-by-model. Some modifiers and dice roll concepts would need to be adjusted to work, but it's possible. The thing is though, rolling for ten guys at once rather than one-by-one does speed things up at the cost of losing the feeling of individual models making a contribution on the table. This to me is the real folly of mass-combat games at 28mm scale - most of the models that you spent time and money and effort on are basically just there as wound tokens and to denote the "footprint" of the unit as a whole.

Going the other way, you have games like Infinity, which are really fairly complicated in terms of rules explanation (poor translation notwithstanding), and which many folks find too dense to get through a game with. Mechanically however, the game is very simple (roll to hit = skill + modifiers + dice roll, opponent rolls to save = armour + modifiers + dice roll has to beat weapon damage, with one such roll for each wound suffered) - the depth comes from using positioning, range bands and cover modifiers to stack the odds in your favour. Detail comes from all the skills available to different models. The main problems arise from some actions being too poor a return on the effort/complexity demanded (hacking and close combat - as Scurv says, they become a chore), and the very poor handling of critical determinations like line of sight and action timings.

I feel that ultimately though, the main issues with GW's rules is not that that they are bad, but that they are simply not appropriate for the application that they are intended. GW needs to be less shy about what size games they envision players having, and what level of scalability they are intended for. Instead though, their rules try to start from a modest force, scale up to huge games and then try to wedge in things that just don't work at the the chosen scale (like fliers, titans, etc). That leaves games like 40k a complete mess, because by trying to encompass too much, they fail at every scale.

I think the outdated part is the thinking behind the rules and the size of games envisioned, and not the rules mechanics themselves. However, if GW draw a line in the sand and say "games are intended to be this size and should include at least one flier and/or superheavy", then they scare off most customers right at square one of their "hobby".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on September 18, 2014, 09:29:45 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 18, 2014, 09:13:20 AM

I think the outdated part is the thinking behind the rules and the size of games envisioned, and not the rules mechanics themselves. However, if GW draw a line in the sand and say "games are intended to be this size and should include at least one flier and/or superheavy", then they scare off most customers right at square one of their "hobby".


Its all about the scale. RT & then 40K was a skirmish game... But it just isnt any more.
Wether driven by sales targets or bigger shinny shinny syndrome, somewhere between the 4th and 6th incarnation, its lost its way and its roots.
Perhaps a split is needed. A small scale set of skirmish rules ( inquismunda? ), and the huge 'throw everything on the table' set that it now seems to have become.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 18, 2014, 09:40:45 AM
Quote from: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on September 18, 2014, 09:29:45 AM
Its all about the scale. RT & then 40K was a skirmish game... But it just isnt any more.

Even then, there was a drive to try and cram in more and bigger right from day one. Vehicles, particularly things like tanks, have never really worked well. Also, scaling from a Gretchin to a Bloodthirster is always going to strain a game designed for models around the size and power of humans.

Quote from: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on September 18, 2014, 09:29:45 AM
Wether driven by sales targets or bigger shinny shinny syndrome, somewhere between the 4th and 6th incarnation, its lost its way and its roots.

I think 3rd was a start in the right direction, but then the list-building game-lawyers starting kicking up too much fuss and the game was bogged down again over successive editions. Whilst 3rd was a bit too stripped back, it should really have swapped to D10 or D12 over the D6 in order to prevent too much "bling-creep" and to avoid the need to roll forty dice for ten models swinging a sword. Apparently though, moving away from the D6 = world-ending calamity.  ::)

Quote from: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on September 18, 2014, 09:29:45 AM
Perhaps a split is needed. A small scale set of skirmish rules ( inquismunda? ), and the huge 'throw everything on the table' set that it now seems to have become.

I'd like split. One would scale from 10-30 models a side, the other would be 40+ models a side with lots of tanks, fliers and titans.

There was a time when that existed though - they were called WH40k2E and Epic Titan Legions. And even then, the rules were clunky for both games.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on September 18, 2014, 12:23:52 PM
I've always thought the hit/damage/save split existed so that the opponent had something to do (rolling saves) in the turn - otherwise you spend 20 minutes watching and then take 2 figures off.

JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on September 18, 2014, 12:53:21 PM
I don't mind hordes of figures on the board, I just don't like hordes of figures on a six by four... ::)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 18, 2014, 01:53:57 PM
Quote from: Streetline on September 18, 2014, 12:23:52 PM
I've always thought the hit/damage/save split existed so that the opponent had something to do (rolling saves) in the turn - otherwise you spend 20 minutes watching and then take 2 figures off.

Well, that's part of the game design too.

Do you have a back-and-forth between players' units (alternating activation), or let each player have their full turn (the I-go-you-go system)? Likewise, what level of interference or tactical planning can be achieved by each system?

Warmachine-style games need the I-go-you-go system in order to orchestrate their models properly for all the spells, buffs and such to work. Malifaux or Infinity style games are fine with alternating activation systems because there are very few models per side.

Some games permit the opponent to take actions in response to your actions (as in reactions, not just armour saves), which is definitely more interesting, but can slow games down a lot (not only the extra time resolving these interrupt actions, but also the analysis paralysis it can induce in the active player).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 18, 2014, 04:02:28 PM
Scurv,
    I actually think that Warengine works really well for the size of game it is representing, but I do have a pronounced preference for streamlined systems.  The combat system is fairly simple, but the special rules give just enough flavor to the various units for me.

Quote from: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on September 18, 2014, 09:29:45 AM
Its all about the scale. RT & then 40K was a skirmish game... But it just isnt any more.
Wether driven by sales targets or bigger shinny shinny syndrome, somewhere between the 4th and 6th incarnation, its lost its way and its roots.
Perhaps a split is needed. A small scale set of skirmish rules ( inquismunda? ), and the huge 'throw everything on the table' set that it now seems to have become.

Would be great, but probably isn't going to happen. The whole GW model now is to get folks buying ALOT of figures.  If it's any indication, note that the "Apocalypse" rules encourage folks to use those same rules -that are as detailed as skirmish rules- for games including hundreds of minis and formations of vehicles without any streamlining of the rules   

Interestingly there was some talk of Mantic doing this. The first version of Warpath was basically Kings of War in space. Extremely streamlined and fast playing and worked best with alot of figures.  We used it several times with our 40k armies which are well represented by the various army lists.  The 2.0 is a more detailed game. Nothing so complicated as 40k, but still a ruleset that would bog down a bit with huge games.  2.0 hasn't been released in paper yet, but there was some talk about having both rulesets in the same book.  It's a good idea, and one I'd like to see.

For my part, I still like the 1.0 rules and have them all saved on my computer.  We break them out once in a while when we want to cram as many 40k minis as possible on the table. In fact, I'd like to use 1.0 rules to play an apocalypse-sized game someday.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 18, 2014, 04:52:18 PM
Quote from: eilif on September 18, 2014, 04:02:28 PM
Interestingly there was some talk of Mantic doing this.

I think Ronnie Renton acknowledged in a video that the intention would be to have two scales of game. Basically 40k2E size and 40k7E size. I'd be very happy with that, but would desperately like to see a detailed core ruleset that's simple, fast, and flexible before I committed to a game like Warpath (and I would also like to see it get a new name...).


Quote from: eilif on September 18, 2014, 04:02:28 PM
For my part, I still like the 1.0 rules and have them all saved on my computer.  We break them out once in a while when we want to cram as many 40k minis as possible on the table. In fact, I'd like to use 1.0 rules to play an apocalypse-sized game someday.

Silly question, but have you thought about using the Epic rulesets for 40k-scale Apocalypse games? The nearest divisible unit 40k infantry model would represent one infantry stand in rules terms (so 5 Marines = one stand, and 3 Tyranid Warriors = 1 stand), and everything else scales one model = one model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 18, 2014, 05:59:35 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 18, 2014, 04:52:18 PM
Silly question, but have you thought about using the Epic rulesets for 40k-scale Apocalypse games? The nearest divisible unit 40k infantry model would represent one infantry stand in rules terms (so 5 Marines = one stand, and 3 Tyranid Warriors = 1 stand), and everything else scales one model = one model.

I actually have, but never tried it out.  I've never played Apocalpyse size games (I think 3000 points was my max), so I haven't had a chance yet. One concern is that I'm not sure we have quite enough vehicles to make Epic work for our games.  I get the feeling it works best with LOTS of tanks.  Still, it's something to consider. Most every time I see a giant apocalypse game report that says something like "The game took 10 hours" or "We were unable to finish the game and stopped on turn 3," I think to myself "Why didn't they just use Epic?"

I think the problem is partly that 40k players are so immersed in the way that the rules and codex entries (for better or worse) represent the various 40k units and characters with almost RPG-like detail and precision.  I'm not sure if they would be open to a system that streamlines and abstracts in order to be more appropriate for battalion-level games even if it results in a game that plays with much  more fluidity.  So they persist in using mechanics that are best suited for platoon level or lower.

Epic is definitely something I want to read more of at some point, but for our club, the appeal of Warparth 1.0 is strengthened by the fact that most of us who have 40k armies that we'd use with it also are fans of Kings of War, so it's a system we're very used to and one that could easily cover the size of games that we' would likely play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 18, 2014, 06:12:04 PM
Quote from: eilif on September 18, 2014, 05:59:35 PM
One concern is that I'm not sure we have quite enough vehicles to make Epic work for our games.

If you have few vehicles and lots of troops, then one troop = one infantry stand, so that you have enough "units" to move to have some reasonable semblance of manoeuvre tactics. Otherwise, I'd expect it works fine.


Quote from: eilif on September 18, 2014, 05:59:35 PM
I think the problem is partly that 40k players are so immersed in the way that the rules and codex entries (for better or worse) represent the various 40k units and characters with almost RPG-like detail and precision.  I'm not sure if they would be open to a system that streamlines and abstracts in order to be more appropriate for battalion-level games even if it results in a game that plays with much  more fluidity.  So they persist in using mechanics that are best suited for platoon level or lower.

Spot on.

Epic 40k and 40K3E were loudly decried and hated on for being more streamlined. Which is a pity, as they were both excellent versions of their respective game (at least, in terms of having a decent set of game mechanics that enabled you to finish a game before you went senile with age).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 18, 2014, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 18, 2014, 09:13:20 AM
@ Argonor & Scurv:

I think you might like the Warmachine / Hordes mechanics more if you haven't already tried them.

I just had to go look at my rules shelf, and I actually have 'Warmachine Prime', and was given a set of Cygnar Jacks and a Warcaster back 8½ years ago for my 40th birthday.

What put me off about it was not its mechanics, but the fact that the game revolves around some very powerful models. I prefer games with 'normal' troops, rather than a clash of titans.

It may have changed a bit with later editions, though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 18, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 18, 2014, 09:13:20 AM
@ Argonor & Scurv:

I think you might like the Warmachine / Hordes mechanics more if you haven't already tried them.


I've heard that there are similarities between WM mechanics and Gruntz. Can any one confirm this and explain?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 18, 2014, 10:18:52 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 18, 2014, 09:36:32 PM
I also think you need to separate the ideas person from the person who turns ideas into rules and they would be two very different personality types. The sort of person who can dream up an amazing and compelling background is rarely the same sort of person who is good at all the hard logic and math that goes into a good set of rules mechanics.

Finally you need the art person. You really really really need the art person. I can't impress enough how some sexy pics of battle stuff in your cover will sell a game.

and you need a layout/clarity person so the rules which the math head will make which will usually be quite stiff (good mechanics but poorly written) flow well.

Some people will be able to wear another hat or 2 but not them all.

You've pretty much just described Privateer Press and their two flagship games - Warmachine and Hordes (which are excellent games). Yet, it has been unable to even remotely give GW a run for it's money. Why?

At the other end of the scale, you should check out the rules for Bob Naismith's old game - Cobalt 2, a completely unplayable mess.


Quote from: Argonor on September 18, 2014, 09:18:00 PM
I just had to go look at my rules shelf, and I actually have 'Warmachine Prime', and was given a set of Cygnar Jacks and a Warcaster back 8½ years ago for my 40th birthday.

What put me off about it was not its mechanics, but the fact that the game revolves around some very powerful models. I prefer games with 'normal' troops, rather than a clash of titans.

It may have changed a bit with later editions, though.

Sounds like you have the WM Mk1 - the new edition is Mk2. However, as a basic level (especially with only Warcasters and Warjacks), the rules are pretty much the same.

The game is actually really good fun, and the only really "monstrously powerful" model is your Warcaster - a hybrid of general and mage who has the rare gift of being able to magically direct the minds of Warjacks. It's rare for even big games to have more than two or three Warjacks as they don't really shine unless you assign Focus to them.

Focus is a limited resource (effectively Mana points) which each Warcaster assigns each turn (any leftover from the previous turn is lost). However, Focus is also used to cast spells, buy additional attacks with your Warcaster, make the attacks and spells of the Warcaster do more damage, and if left unspent and unassigned, can improve the toughness of your Warcaster. Thus Focus is a super-limited and super-valuable resource that you have to manage, and if you lose your Warcaster, you lose the game.

Much of the game revolves around trying to improve your own odds of success with magic and buffs, reducing your opponents odds by the same means, and keeping an eye out for any opportunity to assassinate the enemy Warcaster whilst keeping yours safe.

However, at a basic starterbox level, it's more like steampunk Titans controlled by warrior-wizards bashing the snot out of each other.

If you have the book and two starters, I'd definitely give the game at least a few concerted tries.  :)


Quote from: eilif on September 18, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
I've heard that there are similarities between WM mechanics and Gruntz. Can any one confirm this and explain?

I have no idea, but would suddenly be more interested in Gruntz if true!  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 19, 2014, 01:12:16 AM
Scurv,
   That sounds about right, but I wouldn't write off Warpath just yet.  Much like the Kings of War was for several years, it doesn't yet have a print rulebook.  The next KS is rumored to be a Warpath KS which will greatly expand the range and provide a print rulebook.   KoW also has/had some real stinker models, but seems to do pretty well now that it's in print. 

I'm really looking forward to the KS, though probably mostly as a way to get the book. I've already got a few sci-fi factions, most of which have a large stock of unpainted reinforcements waiting for me, so I don't think I'll be investing in a new army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on September 19, 2014, 01:33:46 AM
Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 01:24:34 AM

Fallout 3 say no more. look at all the proxies.


Fallout miniatures game would sell like hotcakes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on September 19, 2014, 01:37:15 AM
Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 01:24:34 AM
another somewhat random thought is, getting back to the don't reinvent the wheel concept. I think if you can get your game tied to a film or other popular franchise like comics or computer games then it most certainly helps.

If there was an official line of GoT figs and rules it would be doing rather well I think.


I think that's the best IP to get for a full on wargame.  If it was more family friendly, I think GW would have tried to get it.  It has the best potential for a company to sell both lots of expensive characters and lots and lots of line troops.  Georgie boy has certainly provided enough factions to support many years of game growth.

As it happens there was plans for a GoT Wargame.  A friend of mine has actually seen some of the prototype models.  I believe this was before the show came out, so I'm not sure if that had anything to do with the cancelation of the project.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 19, 2014, 01:39:19 AM
Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 01:24:34 AM
another somewhat random thought is, getting back to the don't reinvent the wheel concept. I think if you can get your game tied to a film or other popular franchise like comics or computer games then it most certainly helps.

Hmm, depends on the franchise. Star Wars? Yes. Mass Effect? Sure. Starship Troopers? Erm, we know how that went...

Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 01:24:34 AM
If there was an official line of GoT figs and rules it would be doing rather well I think.
There is an official line of figures put out by Dark Sword Miniatures. Aside from that, games would basically be medieval?

Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 01:24:34 AM
Fallout 3 say no more. look at all the proxies.
Lots of proxies, sure, but not much scope for a wargame... A skirmish at best, and even them you have the likes of Eden, Neuroshima Tactics, Dark Age Apocalypse, etc to fill that niche.

Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 01:24:34 AM
If there was a space hulk like game of gears of war fighting in the grub tunnels it would of done well a few years ago.
Fantasy Flight did a Space Hulk -ish game based on Gears of War. Linky (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=167).

Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 01:24:34 AM
The other option is something in the vein of. An Iron Sky like game of space nazis fighting near future troops would be close enough to the film and firmly fit in the space nazi trope. Doesn't have to fit in with anything specifically out of the movie as long as the trope is recognisable.
Don't all the Weird War games currently out address this?


I actually think that the problem isn't getting good material/premise, it's making an attractive and fun game for a reasonable price. Somehow, very few wargames have achieved all three in a way that's quite accessible to most people (i.e., open box -> read rules -> play)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 19, 2014, 01:57:03 AM
What Scurv said about Mantic. +1

As mentioned, Mantic is going gangbusters with small skirmishes and dungeon crawls etc., but I wonder if, besides filling a different niche that GW abandoned, they just couldn't compete in the mass battle stakes. And IMO because they did put out a range of fantasy minis that range from weird (stick insect elves, hammerheaded dwarfs*, chopstick-legged trolls) to downright execrable (drakons, battle sisters, chopstick-legged trolls...). I struggle to grasp just why they greenlighted half of this stuff, but I guess it's for reasons Scurv already stated: For the former they're just too concerned about making the minis look like special little snowflakes rather than not-GW (forgetting that most of GW's look didn't spring fully formed from Zeus' head), and for everything, they seem to be a throwback to old sculptors, old plastic tech and even an old attitude of minis as just-tolerable game counters.

Now it's all stalled in favour of Deadzone and Dwarf King Holds and things. I hope they'll bring some of those improved aesthetics back to KoW if they ever pay attention to it again, but somehow I'm not hopeful.

*Back on topic, I went into a GW shop and paid full retail for a box of LotR dwarf warriors. I still feel a wee bit ripped-off, but I think they're far superior to KoW plate-armoured Ram-Men and GW's own WHFB kneeless Hagars, let alone most other dwarf minis I've seen. On the flipside, I very much like the quality and dark age theme of Hasslefree's Norman dwarfs, but building more than a token skirmish band out of them? No sir. Disregarding material for a while, I think the LotR dwarves are the best compromise between aesthetics, and price and army building. I've gotta say I think the same of a lot of their plastics (not all) though I much prefer to go snooping on ebay for 'em first.

Also, the Belfast shop isn't so bad for this normally, but whoo-ee the gamer funk had riz today...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 19, 2014, 09:12:53 AM
@ Vermis & Scurv:

I like Mantic, and really believe that they could offer a serious alternative to what we have from GW (you know, in terms of offering a widespread game that also acts to attract new people to wargaming and modelling).

However, there does seem to have been a strong disinclination to try anything other than very tame copycat efforts. I find this really puzzling, and feel that it doesn't do Mantic much good (although, of course, I could be wrong). I feel that just producing more foot troops that are worse-realised versions of plastic models already put out by GW labels them as a poor-man's version of something better. And as you two say, there is a lot of wasted effort on reinventing things that don't need reinventing (or at least, not the extent of making model proportions totally stupid).

It seems to me that the current Mantic path is to make entry-style boardgames, and use these as testbeds for new sculpts, new designs, and to trial manufacturers (afterall, on big reason for the shift to "Restic" from hard styrene is because they moved away from Rendedra).

This is a good start, and I would much rather see Mantic spend effort on making all the alien factions for Warpath rather than just humans/orks/dwarves/elves in space. Same goes for KoW - if they are just going to reinvent elves/dwarves/orks/hoomins into worse versions of what you can buy better from elsewhere, then why bother? I even liked their new Ogres but felt let down by the stupid-looking tiny legs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 19, 2014, 10:29:29 AM
Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 10:24:41 AM
the thing is making space orks, space elves etc is not a bad bread and butter line. Its just they are all over the place as you mentioned in terms of quality.

Just say for arguments sake they went a different direction with their aliens I think they would still be well served by still sticking with well worn tropes. You dont need to make them space orks but you will need a big brutish looking primitive race with mad max style dress sense. Call them Reavers if you like. Know what I mean though. They might look more like the alien mercs from 5th element or reavers from serenity but they fill the same niche as space orks in tropeland.

Christ only knows how many slightly varied takes of Giger's Alien have been made as minis. Nids. Koroloran and Kryomech to name a few.

The really different and new aliens that are popular are still tapping into familiar tropes. The Quar are a totally new concept for aliens (and I must say I personally think they are ace.) but they are tied to a WW1 style trope.

I think to go a new direction entirely is the sort of thing where it needs to be totally amazing in both look and idea. Thinking about it its pretty rare. Predator and Alien were new monsters in tropeland that worked.

Something like cloverfield or district 9 were not new ideas really. Cloverfield was a sci fi godzilla flick and district 9 was just another take on insectoid aliens. Thewy looked new but the trope behind both of them was over half a century old.

 

Agreed, it's quite a leap of faith to try and blaze new trails. There is afterall only one Geiger.  He forged new territory in his art and arguably not much originality has followed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 19, 2014, 11:03:49 AM
@ Scurv:

Totally agree with your comments on original not often being very original. The problem is, I *would* rather have brutish-looking Orks than deformed comedy-looking Orks. Tropes don't have to be 100% new to deserve a new design/concept/look though.

My issue is that whilst, yes, dwarves with guns in space may be "bread-and-butter", it is lazy and fairly pointless - especially if you hash it up. Getting it right takes more effort and work than just having a new race of shark-men for example, or burning demons, or giant insect, or... whatever else really. This is because whilst a parallel to something similar can be drawn, it's also established that they are not exactly the same - giving opportunity for creativity within the trope.

Therefore, I would always prefer to see a brutish race that was a bit Orkish over a race of badly-done "not Orks". Otherwise, you end up with people making a direct comparison and saying about Mantic's efforts "no, that's wrong - Orks in space wouldn't be like that" which basically just leads to disappointment.

For example, Marauders in Deadzone were great in terms of fluff and gameplay, but the models... Only got partway there with the naff alligator snouts, gangly arms, whoppingly huge hands, and hunched-over look. They are waaay better than the Warpath Orks, but it feels like a refinement of something poor rather than a re-do into something good.

I do also find that Mantic only listens a bit, and often ends up making basic errors that lead to a poor model. Why show things off in a WIP stage of you are just going to ignore obvious (but good) feedback? For a good example of showing off a WIP and ignoring the feedback, check out the lady with the missile launcher here (https://riquende.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/dz_tk0.jpg?w=700&h=). She does look like the concept art (here (https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/159/449/8ef105d32c7040232c095c5c95562d15_large.jpg?1381764939)), but the way she's holding the weapon is so awkward that it spoils an otherwise nice sculpt.

Still, all of this is unfair to level at Mantic alone. GW have almost never listened to anything fans have requested (occasional Dark Elf army books aside), and continue to ignore what a great many would like. Whilst that does lead to superior products sometimes, it often leads to an inward-looking downward spiral of stagnation (see: Apple for a "big" example).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 19, 2014, 12:25:35 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 19, 2014, 11:03:49 AM
(see: Apple for a "big" example).

Careful, if you keep speaking like that you're going to bagged up and dragged away in the night by turtleneck clad goons, then wake up working at the genius bar in an apple store in Siberia. :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 19, 2014, 12:53:36 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 19, 2014, 09:12:53 AM
I like Mantic, and really believe that they could offer a serious alternative to what we have from GW (you know, in terms of offering a widespread game that also acts to attract new people to wargaming and modelling).

I like their ethos and I think KoW is a nifty ruleset. The problem is I'd do the opposite of their original intent: I'd use GW minis with Mantic rules, not Mantic minis with GW rules. :D

Quote
(afterall, on big reason for the shift to "Restic" from hard styrene is because they moved away from Rendedra).

Aah. I thought they were moving closer when these (http://www.renedra.co.uk/product.php?product=199) popped in in the webshop.

Quote
This is a good start, and I would much rather see Mantic spend effort on making all the alien factions for Warpath rather than just humans/orks/dwarves/elves in space. Same goes for KoW - if they are just going to reinvent elves/dwarves/orks/hoomins into worse versions of what you can buy better from elsewhere, then why bother? I even liked their new Ogres but felt let down by the stupid-looking tiny legs.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 19, 2014, 11:03:49 AM
The problem is, I *would* rather have brutish-looking Orks than deformed comedy-looking Orks. Tropes don't have to be 100% new to deserve a new design/concept/look though.

My issue is that whilst, yes, dwarves with guns in space may be "bread-and-butter", it is lazy and fairly pointless...

For example, Marauders in Deadzone were great in terms of fluff and gameplay, but the models... Only got partway there with the naff alligator snouts, gangly arms, whoppingly huge hands, and hunched-over look. They are waaay better than the Warpath Orks, but it feels like a refinement of something poor rather than a re-do into something good.

I think we're on the page here. It might sound like a contradiction in terms, but while I sometimes have a hankering for comedy and mad stuff, I prefer my fantasy (imagery, at least) to be fairly serious and sober fantasy, most of the time. Re: the LotR dwarves vs. KoW and WHFB dwarfs I waffled about earlier. I wouldn't even consider dwarfs in space, and I'm glad squats got squatted (there I said it) because there's just too much 'comedy' baggage, and I don't know if there's any way they can be something other than "hey, they're fantasy dwarfs, you know like the Hobbit or Warhammer, with big ol' beards and things, but get this, now they got lazur guns too lulz!" I think elves and orcs made the transition more easily because of (or by playing up) their more 'alien' qualities.
But yeah, alligator snouts etc. are maybe not the qualities to play up! GW's own ork tropes, adding bucket jaws, horizontal necks, riciculously huge weapons (that's just the sluggas and choppas!) are a bit much too. And then there's aftermarket bits producers, puppet's war, kromlech etc. who to my eyes warp the look even further.
Now I do think that orks are a great, and maybe even necessary comedy element in 40K background, but that's the thing: in the background. In their fictional culture and actions, not in clumsy model design and proportions.

I also have a soft spot for ogres, but started chopping up the GW plastics to make them less comedy-obese-mongols, and the high hopes I had for Mantic's versions died for pretty much the reason you stated.

Like I say, I might be in the minority here, and missing the point, but I'm not a fan of the way the 'mundanity' seems to be increasingly stripped from fantasy/sci-fi aesthetics these days. In wargaming anyway. It's like there's a skew towards a comic-book/WoW look, that dribbles through to a greater or lesser degree even in bog-standard humans, particularly in some of the newer games like Malifaux, Zombicide, Helldorado, Warmahordes etc. Maybe I'm getting old, but I get more excited by some of the historical plastic kitbashes on this forum.* Like my motto about fantasy monsters, a veneer of reality makes it much more relatable and less of a... poser, in my eyes. It also lets the really fantastic stuff pop more.

*Though that brings up the question of whether the changes in style and design are necessary to differentiate newer fantasy from historicals, and make the latter less applicable as a proxy.

Quote
Therefore, I would always prefer to see a brutish race that was a bit Orkish over a race of badly-done "not Orks". Otherwise, you end up with people making a direct comparison and saying about Mantic's efforts "no, that's wrong - Orks in space wouldn't be like that" which basically just leads to disappointment.

Yup. Reminds me of some interior art in GW books - by Karl Kopinski, I think, but I can't find it online - with orks that were still recognisably orks, but reigned in, and proportioned and rendered more realistically. I think the B&W format helped too, cutting out the bright green skin. It made them look a lot more brutish and badass, IMO, because they were less OTT and cartoony.

Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 10:24:41 AM
the thing is making space orks, space elves etc is not a bad bread and butter line. Its just they are all over the place as you mentioned in terms of quality.

Uh-huh.

Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 19, 2014, 10:29:29 AM
Agreed, it's quite a leap of faith to try and blaze new trails. There is afterall only one Geiger.  He forged new territory in his art and arguably not much originality has followed.

Uh-huh!

Quote
Why show things off in a WIP stage of you are just going to ignore obvious (but good) feedback? For a good example of showing off a WIP and ignoring the feedback, check out the lady with the missile launcher here (https://riquende.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/dz_tk0.jpg?w=700&h=). She does look like the concept art (here (https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/159/449/8ef105d32c7040232c095c5c95562d15_large.jpg?1381764939)), but the way she's holding the weapon is so awkward that it spoils an otherwise nice sculpt.

I remember the first sneak peek at the seperate bits (sculpts or masters) for the KoW battle sisters and the alarms started screaming in my head. Even unassembled I could tell they were going to look utterly disproportionate and ugly, and said so.

And guess what?

They did.

Quote
Still, all of this is unfair to level at Mantic alone. GW have almost never listened to anything fans have requested (occasional Dark Elf army books aside), and continue to ignore what a great many would like. Whilst that does lead to superior products sometimes, it often leads to an inward-looking downward spiral of stagnation (see: Apple for a "big" example).

Heck, see GW itself. :)

Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 11:25:22 AM
In fact one line that I think has done really well as replacements for GW figs are their undead. Also interesting to note they are the figs that are pretty much lock stock bog standard looking undead figs with no fancy frills.

Apart from frowny eye sockets. :D But yes, that's a great example of the kind of thing I've been talking about: a bit of restraint and 'mundanity' in design paying dividends.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on September 19, 2014, 01:12:30 PM
It's all down to how good the Artistic Director is and how much the executives are listening to him.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 19, 2014, 01:23:36 PM
Quote from: Barbarian on September 19, 2014, 01:12:30 PM
It's all down to how good the Artistic Director is and how much the executives are listening to him.


So your saying John Blanche has been locked in a chest and buried beneath bugmans bar ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on September 19, 2014, 02:09:26 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 19, 2014, 01:23:36 PM
So your saying John Blanche has been locked in a chest and buried beneath bugmans bar ?

Just don't think the execs are giving him enough power over the end products.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 19, 2014, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Diakon on September 19, 2014, 02:09:26 PM
Just don't think the execs are giving him enough power over the end products.

I think it's that alot of his designs don't work on a big unit scale.If 40k was a smaller scaled game then his designs could be really well transferred to the tabletop as great little characters.

But agreed,i'd like to see his influence more in future releases.(or forgeworld could just do a nice range of display/boutique miniatures based on his sketches.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 19, 2014, 05:40:08 PM
Ever so sorry for the double post but this is sort of a separate thing.


I mentioned a couple of pages back that i was thinking of a way to play the core 40k mechanics as a smaller game, and so i've written up some notes.

These are ROUGH! Rougher than a sandpaper ass, but if anyone has any thought or idea, please message me , even if you just want to call me a fool.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NZ0dn20JDkq8veiTPeZfOg0wjm0N-9blTZvwUd7rB4Y/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NZ0dn20JDkq8veiTPeZfOg0wjm0N-9blTZvwUd7rB4Y/edit?usp=sharing)

(seriously, this is more just a concept up in the air, so if you see something and go "but that's wont work!" tell me, because all this is right now is just a piece of digital notepaper.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 19, 2014, 06:37:23 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 17, 2014, 09:00:54 PM
You should try 5th ed, it's one of the less math-y systems i've played .

@Scurv

The D&D 5th Edition core mechanic is a work of minor genius.

You roll D20 + stat bonus (usually in the range -4 to +4) + level-based proficiency bonus (+2 to +6, only if the situation warrants it) against a target number or another player's roll.

Proficiency can be in a skill or a weapon or a set of tools.

No situational modifiers beyond that:

If you have an an Advantage, like shooting at close range, you roll 2D20 and take the highest+stat+proficiency.  Doesn't matter how many advantages you have, you only roll 2D20.

If you have a Disadvantage, like shooting in low light, you roll 2D20 and take the lowest+stat+proficiency.  Like Advantage, you either have it or not.

If you have an Advantage AND a Disadvantage, you roll 1D20+stat+proficiency.  That's regardless of number - one Advantage cancels out 3 Disadvantages.

A very clean mechanic and, after 35 years of gaming, nice to come across a new way of doing things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 19, 2014, 06:58:08 PM
Your character has six stat bonuses, one proficiency bonus and a list of things they're proficient in  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 19, 2014, 07:35:57 PM
Well there's a bit more to it than that - spells, special class abilities and so on.  But in general the AMOUNT of rules is pleasantly low.

You know that the basic game is a free download on the Wizards site?

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules)

There's a DM Guide with treasure, magic items and monsters, and a Player's Guide with four classes (Fighter, Rogue, Cleric and Wizard) and four races (human, various elves, dwarfs and halflings).  It's surprisingly complete - there are a lot of spells in there too.  The free documents will be updates as the new rulebooks are published.

The Hoard of the Dragon Queen has a free online supplement with more monsters:

http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/hoard-dragon-queen (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/hoard-dragon-queen)

The actual paid-for starter set is a rules booklet, a set of pre-generated character sheets and an adventure/mini-campaign booklet.  You don't need to buy it to play the game.

The hardback Player's Guide has more classes, more races and a full spell list.  Feats are optional, and vastly cut down from the 3e madness.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on September 19, 2014, 07:40:01 PM
So... GW thread and everyone goes out to buy D&D.  lol

Seriously though I've been kicking around picking up the new edition of D&D, this thread pretty much tipped me in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 19, 2014, 07:45:26 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on September 19, 2014, 07:40:01 PM
So... GW thread and everyone goes out to buy D&D.  lol

Seriously though I've been kicking around picking up the new edition of D&D, this thread pretty much tipped me in.

Part of their start was fueled by D&D related swag, so it's only fitting, no? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 19, 2014, 08:08:07 PM
Come to think of it, D&D has a warning for GW - tinker too much with your game and you can split the player base, as 4e did.  And that's when a lot of people went to play rivals' games.

Back to Warhammer... the "buckets of dice" approach was going out of fashion when 3rd Edition was published; it certainly was when Kings of War imitated it two decades later.  So what's up with that?

To me, Warhammer games are designed to do two things:

1) Make the player feel badass - roll tons of dice, use awesome special abilities to roll even more and turn the tide of battle!
2) Reward system mastery - pore over the rules and codices to create clever rules synergies in your army lists, plan how to attack the strengths and weaknesses in specific army builds.

I'm not going to make the gross generalisation that these are the hallmark of younger players, but I will say that the rules meet those design goals admirably.  For me, I no longer have the time to paint hundreds of models, optimise army lists or play straight 48-hour gaming sessions as I did in my 20s.

I'm beginning to think that the Commands and Colours boardgame series (especially Ancients or Battlelore) have a the right balance for me of depth, playing time and numbers of models I need to paint to use the games with minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 19, 2014, 09:43:13 PM
Got photos of both my daughters having a massive strop on the battlement of Lindisfarne Castle...  lol

Which proves your point, yeah  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 19, 2014, 10:01:07 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 09:59:21 PM
my old man would have got 6 months of perfect behaviour out of me if a castle visit was in the offing.  lol

the oldest fortress I have seen up close is a thai brick fort which was 18th C. I saw some cowboy era forts in the US but they were really a wooden stockade with loopholes or a wood and stone blockhouse more than a large fortified structure.

Both of those I will note were overseas too. There is nothing here in the way of any fortress like thing until the war era forts on sydney heads and the like. Simply no first hand references for game designers here.

I must say I do love reading those life in the middle ages or life in the dark ages books where they go into daily life of everyone. When you read about how the bottom of society lived and simple daily life it puts the sorts of eras FRPG's like to base themselves on into a much more defined perspective.

I have the warhammer FRPG (first version) and it has the right amount of poop and mud and muck and blackened stumpy teeth that you can have a quite historical feeling and much richer for it game universe.

 

There are a few nice places near Amsterdam. Mulderslot is one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 19, 2014, 10:11:41 PM
This is my neighbour:

http://www.egeskov.dk/

Actually, the castle is renaissance, and situated about 2 km away, but our garden borders on the count's property (yes, we have a count living in an old castle, just on our doostep. Creepy, innit?  ;) ).

This one is where the medieval kings of Denmark held their annual 'Danehof' ('Dane Court'), which has been revived as an annual medieval market:

http://www.visitnyborg.dk/denmark/nyborg-slot-danehofslottet

About 40 km away from where we live.

So, yes, lots of historical stuff to go around, even in little old Denmark. Note, that we don't have rocks/mountains, so most buildings are constructed from bricks, as we have plenty of clay and gravel.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on September 19, 2014, 10:38:36 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 10:20:28 PM
so did your FRPG games have a 'historical' feel to them having all those references around or am I speaking out of my ass?
My circle mainly played sci fi and horror stuff. Lots of Call of Cthulhu and Traveller. Though our Call of Cthulhu was probably more like Scooby Doo than it was like Lovecraft. ;)

You know Dragon Warriors  is still around?

http://serpentking.com/

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 19, 2014, 11:38:40 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on September 19, 2014, 08:08:07 PM
I'm not going to make the gross generalisation that these are the hallmark of younger players

(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00499/a58d63e8-73af-11e3-_499536b.jpg)

I'm going off that particular tack anyway. I still think it's wonky game design, tho.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 19, 2014, 11:46:44 PM
Save it for Frothers mate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 19, 2014, 11:59:01 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on September 19, 2014, 07:35:57 PM
Well there's a bit more to it than that - spells, special class abilities and so on.  But in general the AMOUNT of rules is pleasantly low.

You know that the basic game is a free download on the Wizards site?

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules (http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules)

There's a DM Guide with treasure, magic items and monsters, and a Player's Guide with four classes (Fighter, Rogue, Cleric and Wizard) and four races (human, various elves, dwarfs and halflings).  It's surprisingly complete - there are a lot of spells in there too.  The free documents will be updates as the new rulebooks are published.

The Hoard of the Dragon Queen has a free online supplement with more monsters:

http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/hoard-dragon-queen (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/hoard-dragon-queen)

The actual paid-for starter set is a rules booklet, a set of pre-generated character sheets and an adventure/mini-campaign booklet.  You don't need to buy it to play the game.

The hardback Player's Guide has more classes, more races and a full spell list.  Feats are optional, and vastly cut down from the 3e madness.

The only downside so far is that the dm's guide and monster manual won't be out until DECEMBER! but yeah, 5th ed is so smooth i've been able to start a group of complete rpg virgins without any trouble. (the campaign supplied with the starter set is a bit meh, it exists to introduce you to the game, so it serves its purpose.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 20, 2014, 12:03:55 AM
Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 10:20:28 PM
so did your FRPG games have a 'historical' feel to them having all those references around or am I speaking out of my ass?

I certainly have a tendency to try to make fantasy settings in line with (western/central European and British) history (stone castles, etc), not so much themed after Danish history. We never had the wilderness, great forests, rivers, and mountains that populate most fantasy settings, and thus not so many places for dwarven halls, elven forteresses, and dragons' lairs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 20, 2014, 12:08:58 AM
Just got confirmation that space hulk is on its way. Be happy to see it arrive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 20, 2014, 12:15:55 AM
Dark eldar have just dropped. some pretty looking plastic pics that could be good for converting into mutants/inq28 warbands.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on September 20, 2014, 12:34:57 AM
Quote from: Scurv on September 19, 2014, 09:30:38 PM
I suspect every european LAF'er has some sort of medieval detris within 5km of their dwelling if not closer

I live in a small village on outskirts of York. Just behind my house (where I walk my dog) there is a protected arable field from the dark ages. York practically is a castle. 10-15 minutes drive from my house is Sheriff Hutton Castle (a crumbling ruin but beautiful). A bit further out we've got Castle Howard. A bunch of Abbeys. York Minster. Scarborough Castle. Also you can hardly move in the countryside round here without seeing tourist signs saying "Medieval Church" and what-not.

Totally see what you mean.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 20, 2014, 01:30:56 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on September 19, 2014, 11:46:44 PM
Save it for Frothers mate.

What, a jokey pic?

I'll explain more, then. Like I say, I'm not so convinced by the old arguments I made, and I don't think I was as absolutist as all that anyway; but I still think that some of the points and reasons you brought up in your previous post explain a lot of the 40K/WHFB appeal to kids and why some older gamers go off them. (time, if nothing else) So I raised an eyebrow that after all that reiteration, and given your wording, you think my old argument is not just wrong, but perhaps even offensive.
I didn't want to drag the whole thing up again (like what I'm doing right now) so I stuck up a pic ref that I thought was a bit of mild ribbing. Looks like that didn't go over well. I'm sorry about that but, to be honest, only a little. (I didn't think Vic 'n' Bob were that inflammatory?)

In the meantime, I'm still confused by the point that all the appearances of control, powerful rules and buckets o' dice are neither here nor there to GW's target market. Genuinely. I'm not being confrontational there, just unconvinced.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 20, 2014, 01:46:14 AM
In other news, it looks like the next GW release is Dark Eldar.

Sadly, they only get two plastic kits (5 Wracks @ £22 and a Haemonculus character @ £15).

I am disappointed to see how many units are still in that crappy resin for DE, and rather hoped they might get a few more plastic kits to replace them with. Sadly though, if they didn't replace the crappy resin already for this release, it just means that any other releases will be extra to the army rather than new kits to replace older ones in poor material.

Sigh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 20, 2014, 03:56:32 AM
I reckon more will come out soon. They have to pad out white dwarf weekly now don't they so it would make sense to put a months worth of miniatures out over the course of a month instead of in one go at the beginning of the month.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 20, 2014, 08:52:10 AM
Quote from: Vermis on September 20, 2014, 01:30:56 AM
What, a jokey pic?

I'll explain more, then. Like I say, I'm not so convinced by the old arguments I made, and I don't think I was as absolutist as all that anyway; but I still think that some of the points and reasons you brought up in your previous post explain a lot of the 40K/WHFB appeal to kids and why some older gamers go off them. (time, if nothing else) So I raised an eyebrow that after all that reiteration, and given your wording, you think my old argument is not just wrong, but perhaps even offensive.
I didn't want to drag the whole thing up again (like what I'm doing right now) so I stuck up a pic ref that I thought was a bit of mild ribbing. Looks like that didn't go over well. I'm sorry about that but, to be honest, only a little. (I didn't think Vic 'n' Bob were that inflammatory?)

In the meantime, I'm still confused by the point that all the appearances of control, powerful rules and buckets o' dice are neither here nor there to GW's target market. Genuinely. I'm not being confrontational there, just unconvinced.


See if you'd said that...

I might have had a bit of a sense of humour failure there too  lol  Certainly didn't take offence at your argument at all.

As for my 'younger gamers" argument, there was no offence intended there either, and I didn't mean to imply that it was a "kiddy" approach.  So apologies if that's the way I came across.

I ran  a school club when I was doing my teacher training at the height of the LotR craze, and I no longer have the faintest idea who GW think they're appealing to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 20, 2014, 02:44:57 PM
Quote from: beefcake on September 20, 2014, 03:56:32 AM
I reckon more will come out soon.

They already have three digital books available with rules for Ultramarines, Dark Angels and Space Wolfs. Something like $16 a pop IIRC
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 20, 2014, 05:06:55 PM
Yup, but those three are iBooks only... I emailed about that, as I could actually be interested in these, but got some vague excuse about their digital team being only very small and they don't have plans to release these in another format, but it is however their ideal to release as much of their product as standard ebooks when schedule allows.

Which, to my eyes, is a roundabout way of saying "no" as in a few months there is no use converting these files over, as their self-created limited window of sales will have passed...  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 20, 2014, 07:22:10 PM
I want more scrawny jaw-jut orcs with no shoes and tatty tunics.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on September 20, 2014, 07:38:16 PM
I like orcs that wear looted armour bits n pieces, not spiky 'ork' armour
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 21, 2014, 12:32:51 AM
Quote from: Modhail on September 20, 2014, 05:06:55 PM
but got some vague excuse about their digital team being only very small and they don't have plans to release these in another format...

I doubt that they will be available in standard ePub format due to piracy issues or for Android unless Google or some other third party comes out with a tool like Apple's eBook Author program.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 21, 2014, 11:53:16 AM
I would find that odd, seeing how much they do release in standard epub and mobi formats, essentially all of Black Library's digital offerings.
(Nevermind, I just noticed: In the typical style of GW "sanity", all game-related digital books are iBook only... Apparently, if you can't or won't afford an iDevice, you're not worthy enough to own their rules.  o_o )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: driller on September 21, 2014, 02:32:20 PM
They've released the recent painting guide COMPANIES OF FENRIS iBook-only as well. Since I'm a collector of every possible kind of painting guides, I bought the 160-pages thick paperback version, and I have to say, it was a good purchase, I'm quite satisfied with it. The week after next another such painting guide will follow for Dark Eldar, I'll buy that one as well, even tho I don't play or collect DA. Just because its a painting guide... :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on September 21, 2014, 06:57:26 PM
Quote from: Modhail on September 21, 2014, 11:53:16 AM
(Nevermind, I just noticed: In the typical style of GW "sanity", all game-related digital books are iBook only... Apparently, if you can't or won't afford an iDevice, you're not worthy enough to own their rules.  o_o )
More like, "if you can't afford an iThing, you can't afford a GW game".

Also, some of the new dark eldars I've seen are a little bit inspired by Warmahordes' Cryx, aren't they?

Releasing a "limited" boardgame to make a quick buck, copying the style of their competitors... GW ain't what it used to be (like Apple, come to think of it... a match made in heaven!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 21, 2014, 07:09:33 PM
Quote from: Ajsalium on September 21, 2014, 06:57:26 PM
Also, some of the new dark eldars I've seen are a little bit inspired by Warmahordes' Cryx, aren't they?

I've seen some great conversions of WarmaHordes figures (http://colshofer.blogspot.co.uk/2011_12_27_archive.html) in to Dark Eldar troops, and I have to say that I preferred them to the original models (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Dark-Eldar-Grotesque).

I think that the new DE stuff reminds me of the Cephalyx faction stuff from Privateer Press.

Quote from: Ajsalium on September 21, 2014, 06:57:26 PM
Releasing a "limited" boardgame to make a quick buck, copying the style of their competitors... GW ain't what it used to be (like Apple, come to think of it... a match made in heaven!).

Yeah, I've made that comparison too!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 24, 2014, 01:30:07 PM
Job advert for new CEO available here (http://careers.games-workshop.com/2014/09/18/chief-executive-games-workshop-group-plc-nottingham-uk/)

Ought to be entertaining, although ultimately I don't expect anything will change.

Quote
Keep our owners appropriately informed

Not sure of that terminology. Shareholders, yup, but "owners" ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on September 24, 2014, 02:21:45 PM
I have seen more proffesional job adverts for intern positions.

How can a company as large as GW have this as the CEO job advert!?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 24, 2014, 02:50:51 PM
Assimilate or get annihilated!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 24, 2014, 03:12:07 PM
Oh dear, seen that kind of nonsense before.

You are in charge of what we tell you, you will make all the decisions we tell you to make, and say what ever you wish as long as it is what we told you to say.

Thats an advert for a secretary.

A secretary for the former CEO.

The former CEO and the board being specifically 'The Owners'. Who's choices and decisions you would be required to obey and apply accordingly.

Whilst taking the blame for the failures and disappointments to come, facing the wrath of the shareholders, enabling 'The owners" to remain blameless for the failures brought about by their past and future decisions because you the new CEO are responsible for all of them.

I think the correct title is actually 'Blame Monkey'.

Might be a couple blokes from Tesco applying?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on September 24, 2014, 03:34:35 PM
I wonder what the salary will be?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 24, 2014, 03:45:21 PM
Salary?

What salary?  :o

You would not even apply for the post if you would not do it for the pleasure, nay, the honor, of working for such an illustrious company, with such a fine group of upstanding accountants and hard working colleagues to associate/work with.

That or your own weight in fine-cast, as they probably have a lot of that available.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on September 24, 2014, 04:49:00 PM
I was not exactly sure what humdinger meant. That this job apparently is.

So I looked it up in Urban dictionary. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=humdinger&defid=5834946)
And there it is defined as
Quote
A woman with the capibility to throw her left breast over her right shoulder and squirt buttermilk into her anus.

I mean I am all for equal opportunities, but is this really a qualification sought after in a CEO!? :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on September 24, 2014, 05:16:39 PM
I nominate Tony Reidy as new CEO of GW. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 24, 2014, 05:18:43 PM
David Ike!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fred on September 24, 2014, 08:48:03 PM
There are a bunch of Tesco execs now available...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 24, 2014, 08:53:01 PM
 
Quote from: Ajsalium on September 24, 2014, 05:16:39 PM
I nominate Tony Reidy as new CEO of GW. lol
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on September 24, 2014, 09:48:50 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on September 24, 2014, 02:21:45 PM
I have seen more proffesional job adverts for intern positions.

How can a company as large as GW have this as the CEO job advert!?

That's what I was thinking. What kind of company describes their CEO position as a 'humdinger'?

Gee whillikers!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 24, 2014, 09:50:30 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 24, 2014, 09:43:21 PM
The urban dictionary lied to you. It was an amazing lie and I rolled around laughing at their version of the words meaning but, no that is not a humdinger.

Hella funny visual though.

Its given as an explanation - but no, 1 is:
   
humdinger
Something that is extraordinary.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 25, 2014, 07:24:41 PM
Just read the ad,  :o.
So basically, they're saying they need a sycophant yes-man at the wheel.

I feel like picking it apart bit by bit, but I will restrain myself and only look at the bullet points:

Quote
Deliver a sustainable increase in return on capital
"We want you to make us money, lots of money!!!"

Quote
Have the right people in the right jobs at the right time
This can go several ways:
"We want you to do the impossible, without disrupting the daily routine of our "dignitaries", who are effectively welded into their jobs."
Or:
"We currently have all the wrong people, in all the wrong places, we need you to fix this, preferably without stepping on anyones toes."
Or:
"If anything goes seriously wrong, it's your fault, since you obviously selected the wrong person for the task. In this rare instance, shit does flow uphill..."

Quote
Set the operational agenda in agreement with the board and deliver it on time
"You are not the boss, the shareholders and board of directors are. You will suck up to them and agree with them. You will perfectly execute their unrealistic and possibly conflicting imperatives."

Quote
Keep our owners appropriately informed
"If you do anything that is questionable or discover serious problems, make sure the masters behind the throne can maintain plausible deniability."

Quote
Perform the normal legal duties and responsibilities of a director
"Oh, yeah, real directors are supposed to do stuff. You should do them too. We assume you know what they are, because we have no idea."

 o_o

Humdinger indeed....  lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 25, 2014, 08:06:57 PM
Like I said  lol

Quote from: Tactalvanic on September 24, 2014, 03:12:07 PM

I think the correct title is actually 'Blame Monkey'.


So neither the accepted definition or the suggested urban definition of humdinger actually fits, really.

Complaint to trading standards, for misuse of the word humdinger in their advertising?

 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 25, 2014, 08:16:34 PM
Wait a second ... so where are we with the breasts over the shoulder thing again?

(http://th07.deviantart.net/fs70/200H/i/2013/036/4/4/slattenpatten_by_neuromantiker-d5tx57p.jpg)

Possibly the best result for GW is for them to give the job to someone who actually knows what they're doing and uses some good old legal know-how to squeeze the idiots out of the decision making roles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 25, 2014, 08:54:09 PM
I want someone to do a reality TV to help them choose
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 25, 2014, 08:55:22 PM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 26, 2014, 01:50:15 AM
 lol
Yeah, Pity they hadn't discovered her for the re-release of Total Recall.
(Don't google Jasmine Tridevil if you are at work ;) )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 26, 2014, 03:19:36 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 26, 2014, 01:50:15 AM
(Don't google Jasmine Tridevil if you are at work ;)

Seems innocent enough

http://www.healthgrades.com/provider/jasmine-trivedi-2xdvk
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 26, 2014, 02:26:16 PM
Store manager advert  :D

http://careers.games-workshop.com/2014/09/24/retail-store-manager-continental-europe/

And you can choose from so many locations;

http://careers.games-workshop.com/2014/09/24/retail-store-manager-continental-europe/

Choice descriptive sections designed to tempt:

Quote
Are you excited by working on your own, engaging with all your customers, understanding what’s important to them, and responding appropriately?

You will be responsible for and expected to make all the decisions to drive sales in your store all of the time.

and this

Quote
For those of you that meet this challenge, you will be financially rewarded with a proportion of your sales growth on top of an already competitive salary.

Tempting!

Almost like mini store based CEOs....

Oh and love this

Quote
No letter, no interview.


It may also help to include an up-to-date CV.

Fantastic! - CVs are optional!

Extra boobies, probably optional to. After all you are in charge and alone...You might want to have something else to play with other than toy soldiers....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on September 26, 2014, 03:26:55 PM
I really like the no letter no interview line.

Here I was thinking that GW just randomly called up people asking them to run a store or the company. But you actually have to send a letter first.

That is a big load off my mind! I have been dreading when I might be called up and press ganged to run a GW store.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 26, 2014, 03:57:44 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on September 26, 2014, 03:26:55 PM
I really like the no letter no interview line.

Here I was thinking that GW just randomly called up people asking them to run a store or the company. But you actually have to send a letter first.

That is a big load off my mind! I have been dreading when I might be called up and press ganged to run a GW store.

You mean I can start answering my phone again? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 26, 2014, 04:38:04 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on September 26, 2014, 03:57:44 PM
You mean I can start answering my phone again? lol

Getting calls about my PPI and surveys is bad enough - but being called by GW..

Quote from: Dr. Zombie on September 26, 2014, 03:26:55 PM
That is a big load off my mind! I have been dreading when I might be called up and press ganged to run a GW store.

Heh. have a picture now of Games Workshop press-gangs lurking outside pubs and clubs late at night, Mugging unsuspecting drunks on their way home after a night on the town.

Find themselves waking up the next morning, in a foreign land, chained to a desk, surrounded by skull fetish addicted 12 to 14 year olds and toy soldiers.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 26, 2014, 04:39:36 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on September 26, 2014, 04:38:04 PM
Games Workshop press-gangs lurking outside pubs at night, Mugging unsuspecting drunks on their way home after a night on the town.

Find themselves waking up the next morning, in a foreign land, chained to a desk, surrounded by skull fetish addicted 12 to 14 year olds and toy soldiers.....

I hear that's how Jervis Johnson got a job there...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 27, 2014, 11:08:02 AM
Soo, new dark eldar codex? Are they compensating for the long dry spell those guys had or something?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 27, 2014, 11:15:57 AM
There was lots of stuff in the 5E codex that never got proper midels, or that got rushed into failcast. Making those chouces in plastic would be my priority, and it looks so far that GW agrees.
I'm just waiting now for the next wave of fantastically over - priced dual sets that add nothing the army needs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 27, 2014, 01:03:01 PM
They're not re-doing them Scurv, they're filling in with plastics the stuff from the second release (i.e. 5th edition that didn't make it into plastic. Like the Wracks and the bomber.

I'm just thinking that the prices for these new kits are insane though (even by GW standards) and that they have recently been making dual kits with half a unit in them at a premium cost (which so far haven't appeared for DE).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on September 28, 2014, 02:19:04 PM
To give credit where credit is due. I just bought a box of GW skeletons. And that is really an awesome kit. You can build the skeletons with only the mandatory one skull and without all the batwings.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 28, 2014, 03:45:05 PM
I agree, I have to say their skeleton kit is (one of) their best offering(s) of recent years. I miss arms for making archers though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pijlie on October 01, 2014, 07:55:47 PM
If and when they find their new Great Leader, here's an executive chair in house style:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/s960x960/1782404_10152472513707746_1283369481936741819_o.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on October 01, 2014, 11:20:12 PM
I think GW still qualifies, despite not being Mexican.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 02, 2014, 03:19:56 AM
You need that on a rotating platform so whenever your nemesis enters the room you can flip the switch, turning around, and face them. Tiger sitting beside the chair optional.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on October 06, 2014, 01:35:41 PM
A slight copy/paste error in the new Dark Eldar codex.
(http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p749/bennymcbain/imagejpg1_zpsb2e090e5.jpg) (http://s1349.photobucket.com/user/bennymcbain/media/imagejpg1_zpsb2e090e5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on October 06, 2014, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on October 06, 2014, 01:35:41 PM
A slight copy/paste error in the new Dark Eldar codex.

Oh, my...  ::) I would feel screwed over twice if seeing this after having paid up for for a book like that. Not that it ruins the use of the book, but because it shows that they don't even bother proof-reading.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on October 06, 2014, 03:20:27 PM
 lol Is that error in the hardback and limited edition books too? Anyone know?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on October 06, 2014, 04:04:43 PM
Quote from: Diakon on October 06, 2014, 03:20:27 PM
lol Is that error in the hardback and limited edition books too? Anyone know?

If it is I think they will be getting a lot of flak and a lot of people returning them... I know I would  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on October 06, 2014, 05:49:48 PM
I have no idea. This is from the digital edition. Not my pic. by the way. I just thought it very funny in a tragic kind of way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 07, 2014, 10:10:34 AM
These sorts of copy-paste errors are pretty common in the digital editions. I seem to remember a few other codices and army books that had this same problem on release.

However, digital editions means that you can update them, so I suppose it's not the end of the world.

The printed books though... Do still have errors, but none as grievous as the example above.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on October 07, 2014, 10:19:44 AM
Still, for a company as experienced (I was going to say "professional", but then I remembered who I was talking about)  as GW and for the premium price and image they have, this is dreadfully sloppy...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 07, 2014, 10:32:24 AM
...I don't disagree - especially as this seems to be fairly common for them recently.  :?

In other GW matters, I saw the recent character releases for DE - the Archon and Succubus. I do quite like these, but when I realised that together with the Heamonculus the three regular-sized infantry models came to £45, I quickly changed my mind about getting them as side-projects!  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on October 07, 2014, 11:07:05 AM
Heh, these days, if I find myself using the words "Games Workshop" and "side project" in a single sentence, the project goes out the window....  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on October 07, 2014, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: Modhail on October 07, 2014, 11:07:05 AM
Heh, these days, if I find myself using the words "Games Workshop" and "side project" in a single sentence, the project goes out the window....  ;)

That's mostly the case for me.  However, I do have a couple of side-projects using vintage and used GW figs.  Current GW figs are so expensive that even some of the more rare lines of OOP  figs (like squats) can be had for less than the cost of new figs.    I've got a squat side project that I add to slowly when I come across really good deals and and have been slowly collecting the figs for a 2nd edition Eldar project (not started) to complete the army my brother never finished.

One good thing about the ubiquity of GW is that there's a HUGE used market at various levels of affordability.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on October 11, 2014, 12:21:41 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10687172_699294143488620_1866157245649911727_n.jpg?oh=f121f53108b7a4890da3aa2bcfa44db5&oe=54CB8793&__gda__=1421988687_5d8a35ab64405ba73789c8719ea909b8)
Just seen this reported on the Oldhammer facebook group.

GW Chiswick.

No idea??
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 11, 2014, 01:03:38 AM
Quote from: Diakon on October 11, 2014, 12:21:41 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10687172_699294143488620_1866157245649911727_n.jpg?oh=f121f53108b7a4890da3aa2bcfa44db5&oe=54CB8793&__gda__=1421988687_5d8a35ab64405ba73789c8719ea909b8)
Just seen this reported on the Oldhammer facebook group.

GW Chiswick.

No idea??

Apparently two shops have been re-branded as a test.
It seems GW want very much for the product and the store to be one and the same.(kids often call GW the warhammer shop anyway , so why not make it easier for their parents to find their Christmas present._
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on October 11, 2014, 01:21:19 AM
Interesting... this occurs before a new CEO is in place? Reinforces the decision-making ability they expect that person to have.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on October 11, 2014, 01:32:12 AM
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6f/f0/f2/6ff0f219af5cac0b2de843d36cb85d52.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on October 11, 2014, 03:06:06 AM
I think most weapon enthusiasts will be disappointed upon entering.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on October 11, 2014, 08:13:58 AM
Quote from: nic-e on October 11, 2014, 01:03:38 AM
Apparently two shops have been re-branded as a test.
It seems GW want very much for the product and the store to be one and the same.(kids often call GW the warhammer shop anyway , so why not make it easier for their parents to find their Christmas present._

Makes a lot of sense to me - it might stop the endless stream of confused parents trying to buy console games...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 11, 2014, 09:00:07 AM
Yea that actually sounds like a logical decision for once.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 11, 2014, 01:37:09 PM
hmmm. switch off full pessimist mode - illiminates excessive profanity/sarcasm...

So when the chain of Warhammer shops are closed down for dropping sales figures   :D

It won't be because of GW business decisions, and won't damage their reputation as they are not Gamesworkshop.... shops.   ::)

Sounds more like an experiment to separate the retail street shop brand from the "GW" brand, while making sure they max their "ownership" of the Warhammer name if it actually succeeds.

Suspect the new CEO was only required to say "why yes I think that's a great idea you just told me I had oh might powers that be", or possibly just "yes".

maybe the next change the signs will say either "closed" "foreclosed" or just "Hasbro"

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on October 11, 2014, 03:10:00 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on October 11, 2014, 01:21:19 AM
Interesting... this occurs before a new CEO is in place? Reinforces the decision-making ability they expect that person to have.

Just office politics/backstabbing 101: If the idea works, it was the former CEO's inspired parting gift to the company, if it doesn't work, then it is clearly because the new guy made a mess of it...

The fact they went for designer black and stylish understated lettering makes me fear that sometime soon, when you walk in, you'll see single boxes of product on pedestals, under glass cases, art gallery or apple-store style.  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on October 12, 2014, 12:49:26 AM
Unfortunately the vast majority of people who buy into GW won't read this thread and therefore will be none the wiser therefore perpetuating the 'myth' of GW...

We can only snigger from a back seat and not really do anything about it...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 12, 2014, 09:48:26 AM
Went into the local GW store here in Amsterdam and EVERYTHING has changed!  Did you see the new table they're releasing?

I hear they're calling it 'Cameltoe Bend', not sure why though....??
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Damas on October 12, 2014, 09:53:25 AM
I think I'd like to play across that!  ;D


Secondly, what on EARTH were you searching for to find that image???? o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 12, 2014, 09:56:12 AM
That's some massive bush!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 12, 2014, 10:01:08 AM
Quote from: Damas on October 12, 2014, 09:53:25 AM
I think I'd like to play across that!  ;D


Secondly, what on EARTH were you searching for to find that image???? o_o

lol I think the Oldhammer page on FB.  Happy Sunday!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on October 12, 2014, 10:17:41 AM
Lol very interesting topography and very pleasing to the eye :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on October 12, 2014, 11:01:45 AM
She genuinely must have a lot of patience to do that, if its real of course.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 12, 2014, 11:15:47 AM
Now I know why trolls like to live under bridges.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on October 12, 2014, 11:45:39 AM
Quote from: Cubs on October 12, 2014, 11:15:47 AM
Now I know why trolls like to live under bridges.

lol You win the internetz! And a couple skullz, too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on October 12, 2014, 12:43:20 PM
Could we return to discussing the immaturity of those GW gamers?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on October 12, 2014, 12:59:42 PM
What the good fellow in the post above said.

To put the thread back on track, I got a mail from GW the other day to the tune of that while Space Hulk has "sold out" in Europe, they "found" a couple of copies in warehouses around the world and are shipping them back for central distribution from the UK. Now in "marine transit".

Make of that what you will. As a logistics professional by trade, it makes my neck hairs stand on edge.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on October 12, 2014, 01:59:29 PM
Yup. Saw that on Frothers.

Apparently they expect to receive them "early December"? So in time for the Christmas shopping season. Goooo figure... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on October 12, 2014, 02:10:52 PM
Funny isn't it? Especially if you consider the exact same thing happened with the previous 2009 "one time only" release of Space Hulk. ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 12, 2014, 02:28:53 PM
Quote from: Modhail on October 12, 2014, 02:10:52 PM
Funny isn't it? Especially if you consider the exact same thing happened with the previous 2009 "one time only" release of Space Hulk. ;D

Yeah, but by GW Math the people in 2009 were 12 and are now 17 and playing things like Bolt Action, so there's an entire new group of pre-teens to deceive.... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 13, 2014, 07:06:51 AM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on October 12, 2014, 12:59:42 PM

 Now in "marine transit".


So at least one large shipping container full of  "unsold" stock then?

Shipped back to the UK to be shipped worldwide from the UK, to all of us who don't have them yet/ebay OOP resale etc.

Don't suppose they want to do a marketing trick and just send me a copy free/swap it for a U2 album?

Yay for GW though, keeping up with their normal standards.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jp762 on October 13, 2014, 07:19:41 AM
You are very ungrateful people!
With all of the effort they are going to in order to get these back to the UK you should at least shell out double for them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 13, 2014, 12:08:08 PM
We are all very grateful to GW.

 For Encouraging us to find alternative suppliers and games

 Bu most especially in this instance for ensuring that a limited edition, never to be seen again board game classics is available again. 

Twice.

Our hobby would not be the same without them.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on October 13, 2014, 12:58:06 PM
Heh, without GW I could have never started on the road that led me to the LAF... So they did at least one good thing, if inadvertantly.

Quote from: Too Bo Coo on October 12, 2014, 02:28:53 PM
Yeah, but by GW Math the people in 2009 were 12 and are now 17 and playing things like Bolt Action, so there's an entire new group of pre-teens to deceive.... :D

Except that to GW Bolt Action doesn't exist, in their world the only competition they have for a young lads soul is the trio of Beer, Girls and Motorcycles...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 13, 2014, 01:03:26 PM
Quote from: Modhail on October 13, 2014, 12:58:06 PM
Heh, without GW I could have never started on the road that led me to the LAF... So they did at least one good thing, if inadvertantly.

Except that to GW Bolt Action doesn't exist, in their world the only competition they have for a young lads soul is the trio of Beer, Girls and Motorcycles...  ;)

No I meant that the last group playing GW games in 2009 are now 17 and playing Bolt Action, so with the new group of youngsters GW can play their trick a second time!  Sorry if that was confusing before :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on October 13, 2014, 03:14:01 PM
  ;D I guess I'm just not used to seeing GW as part of the real world anymore... That, or out of self-preservation, my common sense shuts down as soon as GW is mentioned.  lol

It really is a transparent and cheap trick though... And useless deception. (If GW were smart, they'd put those sets onto Ebay themselves somewhere around nov-dec starting at €120 a pop. Undercut the fleecers and getting extra money for free, I thought it'd appeal to them.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cherno on October 13, 2014, 04:10:25 PM
Edit: Nevermind :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 13, 2014, 04:51:12 PM
Quote from: Modhail on October 13, 2014, 03:14:01 PM
If GW were smart, they'd put those sets onto Ebay themselves somewhere around nov-dec starting at €120 a pop. Undercut the fleecers and getting extra money for free, I thought it'd appeal to them.

You should apply for the CEO job - you might just snag it with ideas like that!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 13, 2014, 05:04:43 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on October 13, 2014, 04:51:12 PM
You should apply for the CEO job - you might just snag it with ideas like that!  lol

Right?  That's the kind of innovation that has GW Upper Management written all over it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on October 13, 2014, 05:15:58 PM
Sadly, I'd be instantly disqualified for the job, on account of still possessing my original soul and my subversive attempts to actually care about the games. o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on October 13, 2014, 09:31:06 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on October 11, 2014, 03:06:06 AM
I think most weapon enthusiasts will be disappointed upon entering.

I think most wargamers will be disappointed upon entering. lol

I do think the store renames are a good move for them.  The simple white font is more up-to-date from a design prespective, the name ties to the product, and as others have said already, it'd probably what many folks call it anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on October 15, 2014, 08:16:06 PM
Quote from: Modhail on October 13, 2014, 05:15:58 PM
Sadly, I'd be instantly disqualified for the job, on account of still possessing my original soul and my subversive attempts to actually care about the games. o_o

That made me laugh out loud ...  :D Well said!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 16, 2014, 05:18:53 AM
New nurgle champs look quite good at first glance (not talking about the price obviously)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on October 16, 2014, 12:09:47 PM
Quote from: beefcake on October 16, 2014, 05:18:53 AM
New nurgle champs look quite good at first glance (not talking about the price obviously)

I agree. They look a lot like the Nurgle Lord from a few years ago and I love that model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 16, 2014, 07:48:30 PM
Good to see a few mutations in there as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 17, 2014, 03:43:22 PM
Yes, they are nice but complete brain storm here as i am at work its friday and someone made me go to a meeting with sales people - not a nice thing to do to a techy engineer...

Thinking in line with their (GW) possible re-branding e.g. shops being Warhammer rather than GW, neither really rolls of the tongue, but, ok.

If we take the leap that they are 'up-marketing' their 'product', making it more desirable, designer - bespoke and above all a perceived fashion necessity, iconic even.

So much so that their longterm approach of revamps and rules re-rights, version releases etc, becomes justified - go with me here - like the projected 'need' to upgrade your i-phone every 6 months basically to get the latest fastest slimmest curviest one.

I am thinking they are a bit well, buggered. Apple would be on their case pretty quick if they decided to start doing i-nurgle this or i-spacemarine that..

and lets face it you really need a vowel to get that kind of product into peoples minds... w-nurgle or w-marine just don't trip off the tongue like I-pad, I-phone or Iraq.

As someone already mentioned - maybe soon there will be W.H. Shops..... ::) with one manager, and individual products, with designer packaging, maybe even start a new packaging collector craze, people more interested in keeping the boxes than the content...with their prices you certainly would be reluctant to throw the boxes away now.

So if we go vowely about it..

    A, E, I, O, U, and sometimes Y - so excluding the I, which would be better?

Thinking Y.
Y-nurgles, Y-Marines, Y-Guards, Y-Fronts, Y-buy ?

Thoughts? or change the subject and sanity level back to something else?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on October 17, 2014, 04:05:37 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on October 17, 2014, 03:43:22 PM
So if we go vowely about it..

    A, E, I, O, U, and sometimes Y - so excluding the I, which would be better?

Thinking Y.
Y-nurgles, Y-Marines, Y-Guards, Y-Fronts, Y-buy ?

Thoughts? or change the subject and sanity level back to something else?

Well, "Y?" is something I often think when seeing GW's latest releases and/or antics...  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on October 17, 2014, 08:48:30 PM
Thoughts on the new Nurgle riders? Think they look daft myself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 17, 2014, 09:54:39 PM
The joints on the beasts in particular remind me of action figures. Very disappointing if this is the best GW can manage.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on October 17, 2014, 10:37:41 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Nurgle-Chaos-Sorcerer
Quite fancy him as a scavvy king/gang leader.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on October 18, 2014, 12:04:56 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on October 17, 2014, 10:37:41 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Nurgle-Chaos-Sorcerer
Quite fancy him as a scavvy king/gang leader.

Nice, Has a bit of that old school over-the-top look.
Don't have need or budget for it though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 18, 2014, 02:23:55 AM
Not a fan of the hat. Not bad though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on October 18, 2014, 07:17:07 AM
Is the fly-cavalry thing new? They look the part, if nothing else does!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on October 18, 2014, 09:31:51 AM
Quote from: beefcake on October 18, 2014, 02:23:55 AM
Not a fan of the hat. Not bad though.
It was the swanky hat that drew me to him  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 18, 2014, 09:53:42 AM
Made me think smurfs  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on October 18, 2014, 10:19:50 AM
Wait what? It's metal?
No fail crap? I thought they were gonna replace that with the plastic clampacks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on October 18, 2014, 10:35:29 AM
Quote from: beefcake on October 18, 2014, 09:53:42 AM
Made me think smurfs  ;)
Hmm ,smurf necro gang called the white hats,close combat weapon is the soul destroying song they sing/hum,
Consider the idea stolen  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 18, 2014, 03:44:57 PM
Made me think of a horrible breeding experiment/encounter - between the grinch and the cat in the hat..

Mind you it is aimed at kids so maybe..

paint it in red/white stripes?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 18, 2014, 08:47:16 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on October 18, 2014, 10:19:50 AM
Wait what? It's metal?
No fail crap? I thought they were gonna replace that with the plastic clampacks.


Wow, GW going back up in my books.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on October 18, 2014, 08:49:43 PM
It isn't a new model, it's been around for years. A lot of characters are still metal, but for how long?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 22, 2014, 03:41:54 PM
Calling all Python fans!  This is just bloody brilliant!

https://www.behance.net/gallery/2428458/Monty-Python-and-the-Holy-Grail-Warhammer-Miniatures
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on October 22, 2014, 05:26:21 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on October 22, 2014, 03:41:54 PM
Calling all Python fans!  This is just bloody brilliant!

https://www.behance.net/gallery/2428458/Monty-Python-and-the-Holy-Grail-Warhammer-Miniatures

Oh Sir Robin ran away....


Haha well worth a look and a laugh :) Thanks for sharing with us all  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on October 27, 2014, 11:09:55 AM
So this is going on now:

https://www.change.org/p/games-workshop-limited-refocus-your-business-model-on-the-sale-of-a-game-and-support-of-a-gaming-community-vice-the-pure-sale-of-collectible-miniatures

It's a petition to GW to change their ways.
I don't expect much of it, but won't hurt much either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 27, 2014, 03:57:33 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on October 27, 2014, 11:09:55 AM
So this is going on now:

https://www.change.org/p/games-workshop-limited-refocus-your-business-model-on-the-sale-of-a-game-and-support-of-a-gaming-community-vice-the-pure-sale-of-collectible-miniatures

It's a petition to GW to change their ways.
I don't expect much of it, but won't hurt much either.

I agree and wish them luck,

I disagree with several of the points outlined and some of the wording - as will others here  - for me, especially the comments about the miniatures are for their - GW - "game/s". er, no they are for whatever game I wish to play with them, either GW rules or someone elses as proxies - my toys, mine toys, mine toys... Mine!  :D

There are not many in the wonderful land of LAF still solely addicted/afflicted/dedicated to GW product lines. Most have merrily moved on.

I do have many fond memories related to playing GW games..

That goes way back to the 80's/90's and the same issues apply now as then, in regards to their business and practices, I am little concerned with them or trying to change them. I actually dropped this hobby for many years because of it, but happily got dragged back in by the diverse alternative that by chance I started to stumble upon.

Will I miss them, will we miss them, if they go? Absolutely. But something else will fill the gap, and there's plenty of other stuff to occupy our hobby time.

So yes, like you don't expect anything from it, and anyway, if they did suddenly change what then could we have a really good bitch about?

 :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 03, 2014, 04:30:32 PM
Victoria Miniatures (http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/apc-wheel-and-suspension-kit) are doing a wheel conversion kit for the truck abomination thing that GW produced.

Still looks pretty ugly, but getting closer to something that could be useful for running around a post apoc wasteland  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 03, 2014, 04:41:21 PM
Does 40k still use true line of sight, cause that is a big target.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 03, 2014, 05:01:35 PM
The flat fenders still look a bit naff, but that's actually interesting now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on November 03, 2014, 10:59:05 PM
Actually I was toying with getting one if the GW truck kits and converting it to a Judge Dredd Pat Wagon. Stick an eagle on the front and it could look great with a couple of amends.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 03, 2014, 11:09:56 PM
Quote from: Archie on November 03, 2014, 10:59:05 PM
Actually I was toying with getting one if the GW truck kits and converting it to a Judge Dredd Pat Wagon. Stick an eagle on the front and it could look great with a couple of amends.

That's not a bad idea  8)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on November 04, 2014, 10:19:06 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on November 03, 2014, 11:09:56 PM
That's not a bad idea  8)

cheers

James

Cheers  8)

Pat wagons are supposed to be mobile jail cells after all so it would fit that they wpild need something fairly robust and big. The only flaw in the plan is the cost of one of these kits!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 05, 2014, 06:15:47 AM
Just curious, what other countries use "paddy wagon" as the name for police trucks that take a lot of arrested people away? It's pretty common here in NZ.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 05, 2014, 07:24:36 AM
We do in the UK  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 05, 2014, 08:05:43 AM
I googled it and it seems rather widespread. A few different thoughts on why it is called paddy too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on November 05, 2014, 07:17:53 PM
While this is getting pretty far from GW.
In Denmark a "Paddy wagon" is called a "Salatfad" this translates into "Salad dish". Supposedly because they used to be green and it was said that the policemen were sour as vinegar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 05, 2014, 07:42:14 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on November 05, 2014, 07:17:53 PM
While this is getting pretty far from GW.
In Denmark a "Paddy wagon" is called a "Salatfad" this translates into "Salad dish". Supposedly because they used to be green and it was said that the policemen were sour as vinegar.

Lol lol lol lol. That's a great story! What an amazing and varied world we live in. What characterful and creative ways we come up with to cope/define the world around us.

Wish we called ours salad wagons here in Aus too, much better than paddy/divi :(

Cheers
Matt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on November 05, 2014, 09:32:21 PM
We still use the term "Paddy wagon" here in Chicago. We've got big history of Irish Cops, so it's not surprising.
(http://llnw.wbez.org/styles/280x195/llo/patty%20wagon_getty.JPG)

Funny to hear about "divvy Van" useage.  Here in Chicago Divvy vans (Mostly Dodge or Mercedes Sprinters) are the vehicles that transport bikes for the cities "Divvy" bike sharing program.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7344/9180189588_bb2d906c31_z.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on November 05, 2014, 11:03:55 PM
In Scotland they are "Black Marias" (I think I have the spelling right) ... singular being 'Black Maria' (possibly 'Moria'
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 05, 2014, 11:54:43 PM
To get back on topic, do they still have the Flikr pool where members of the pubic could post their pictures of painted GW figures and a selection was posted on the main website?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on November 06, 2014, 08:31:16 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on November 05, 2014, 11:54:43 PM
To get back on topic, do they still have the Flikr pool where members of the pubic could post their pictures of painted GW figures and a selection was posted on the main website?

cheers

James
Not that I have seen. Which is a damn shame as it could be very inspirational.
Their new site is just too much about selling and not a good site like the old. Hell the old one even hard a multitude of articles which were fun to read....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 06, 2014, 08:33:39 AM
I find it quite hard to navigate to something I want to look at.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 06, 2014, 09:35:00 AM
I had a little look on my phone last night and gave up after a couple of minutes  ::)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on November 06, 2014, 09:57:17 AM
Seen pics of the mod kit By Vic's minis and if I was still collecting IG that would be the only acceptable way to greatly improve otherwise horrible looking model.

Regarding the names of paddy vans etc, here the police vans are called mustamaija, term used since the 1920s-1930s, direct translation from Black Maria used in the days of old in English speaking countries. It's still used today even though the police vans are getting more and more whiter, the newest ones have more bright neon yellow (according to studies the colour most easiest noticed in traffic) than dark blue over the white.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on November 06, 2014, 10:13:39 AM
Quote
For many years our local police cars were white with a thin red stripe running the length of the body.

As a result they were known to everyone as "jam sandwiches".

These were the fast response cars, we called them Zulus as in Zulu 1, 2, 3, etc:

(http://www.computing.co.uk/IMG/857/125857/met-police-car-370x229.JPG?1413406207)

Patrol Cars were called Pandas, for obvious reasons, and they had a Mike call sign:

(http://www.visionmotorservices.co.uk/galleries/police_cars-austin+bmw/index_files/vlb_images1/austin_police_car_01.jpg)

and then there is:

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45622000/jpg/_45622715_riottank.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 06, 2014, 12:03:39 PM
Joroas, that is one heavy piece of police equipment. :0

Our guys are lucky to have a Toyota land cruiser and a van.
(http://a.imageshack.us/img826/9812/nswpors5.jpg)

Our paddie wagons are less vans and more utilities.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/2008_Ford_Ranger_PJ_XL_Crew_Cab.jpg)

Over the last year's our highway patrol has changed its markings. Making them very OH&S safe from behind, and stealthy from the font as they 'ping' speeding motorists from behind bushes. ;)
(http://resources.carsguide.com.au/styles/cg_hero_large/s3/dp/albums/album-5786/lg/HSV-GTS-Police-car-4.jpg)

Now back to discussing how borning the latest GW website is, and how they don't have any online articles anymore.

I never paint in a GW store. But I was having a chat to a mate on the weekend and he was saying how they now ask customers to cease and desist if they are painting in-store with any non-GW product! They asked him to put down his unofficial paintbrush!!! 0_o

That's seriously too far, and why GW has no friends.

Cheers
Matt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 06, 2014, 12:56:03 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on November 06, 2014, 12:03:39 PM

I never paint in a GW store. But I was having a chat to a mate on the weekend and he was saying how they now ask customers to cease and desist if they are painting in-store with any non-GW product! They asked him to put down his unofficial paintbrush!!! 0_o

That's seriously too far, and why GW has no friends.

Cheers
Matt.

That really isn't on. I would hope that the older managers (the few I know have played 'other' games) would be a bit more sensible to that  :?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 06, 2014, 01:39:01 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on November 06, 2014, 12:56:03 PM
That really isn't on. I would hope that the older managers (the few I know have played 'other' games) would be a bit more sensible to that  :?
I think this has been discussed before, but in my experience you get two flavors of GW managers. The hardcore fanboys and the guys who played other games, maybe even ran a store and are doing this as a "steady job" in the war-gaming business (which there are not that many of)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: LordOdo on November 08, 2014, 12:29:08 AM
I keep them black.
Have experienced with green edges, but IMO that needed flock as well to look really good :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on November 08, 2014, 01:22:06 AM
I was using brown, but these days I prefer black. I guess it depends on whether you want something that blends in to the terrain (brown), something retro (green) or something that looks neat and crisp (black).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 08, 2014, 05:38:25 AM
I like black.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sardoo on November 08, 2014, 08:18:01 AM
I've tried green but too often it detracts from the colour scheme of the figure. Black seems to be the best choice
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 08, 2014, 08:29:20 AM
I used to paint mine very dark brown which was a good compromise and if I ever get round to painting the IG and orks I've got I'll do it like that again.

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 08, 2014, 11:38:59 AM
Sometimes I like to 'frame' the bases in black, and other times like with my Saga stuff on renderra bases, are sculpted over the ridge.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 08, 2014, 10:31:34 PM
I have done a few with a grey/brown stone shade, which worked quite well. But mostly black.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: janner on November 09, 2014, 05:28:19 PM
I'm on khaki for the moment...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 09, 2014, 06:22:44 PM
Try Fish Sauce.

It goes with everything according to my brother in law.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on November 09, 2014, 06:53:58 PM
I usually go for dark brown.

And in other news what does people think about the new floaty ballsack tyranid thingies?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 09, 2014, 07:06:37 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on November 09, 2014, 06:53:58 PM
And in other news what does people think about the new floaty ballsack tyranid thingies?

Looks a bit too regular for me, like the designer digitally sculpted a fifth and then just mirrored it  :?

Not enough randomness for me.

*EDIT* I found the Flikr pool  :D

cheers

James  
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 09, 2014, 07:41:35 PM
Generic burnt umber with a highlight for me.

What about the app they've released? It's a train wreck inside a car crash.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on November 09, 2014, 10:27:00 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on November 09, 2014, 06:53:58 PM
And in other news what does people think about the new floaty ballsack tyranid thingies?

H.P. Geigercraft?
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on November 09, 2014, 11:24:31 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on November 09, 2014, 06:53:58 PM
And in other news what does people think about the new floaty ballsack tyranid thingies?

Awful. Just awful. The last tyranid think I liked was tge latest hive tyrants and carnifex kits.
They have taken suck to a new level for me....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 09, 2014, 11:55:08 PM
Most boring Tyranid thing ever. I don't get it either. Reading the descriptions, one says its impact, when it hits the planet, disgorges tyranids. The other buries itself into the planet. What is the point to these minis. Are they going to be there for 1 turn then replaced with other things?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 10, 2014, 04:42:14 AM
It is an armour plated dogs danglies - literally, and that ain't a compliment >_> Who would want to paint a hot air ballsack anyway?

Will they come out with a new range of imperium "Penetrator" rockets that look a little like a V2 and a little like something else?

Oh dear.
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 10, 2014, 08:29:24 AM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on November 10, 2014, 04:42:14 AM
It is an armour plated dogs danglies - literally, and that ain't a compliment >_> Who would want to paint a hot air ballsack anyway?

Will they come out with a new range of imperium "Penetrator" rockets that look a little like a V2 and a little like something else?

Oh dear.
Matt

Very accurate.

Better  to buy a real whole dog and even with the upkeep you get more out of it.

But it might not let you play 40k with its danglies..

Nice that they tell us which issue of dwarf the rules are in.

oooh but look a special invasion force with 5 dogs danglers in it - two pairs and a spare!
 
only set u back 345 squids. for a massive army of 34 miniatures! woohoo !!! and then buy the white dwarf issues for the rules....

No doubt there will be more pointed releases to follow to complete the set, to enable players to properly play with their  armoured balls..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on November 10, 2014, 08:33:29 AM
Quote from: beefcake on November 09, 2014, 11:55:08 PM
Most boring Tyranid thing ever. I don't get it either. Reading the descriptions, one says its impact, when it hits the planet, disgorges tyranids. The other buries itself into the planet. What is the point to these minis. Are they going to be there for 1 turn then replaced with other things?

I think it is a kind of organic drop-pod. If so, by the rules, these things usually are placed on the table, deploy their payload (usually troops or a stompy robot thing, for Space Marines) and then take weak pot-shots at enemy units that move too close and block line of sight for the rest of the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 10, 2014, 08:40:01 AM
But that wasn't the original idea behind tyranids though  :?

Wasn't it supposed to be spores that infest a planet or some such?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on November 10, 2014, 08:43:09 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on November 10, 2014, 08:40:01 AM
But that wasn't the original idea behind tyranids though  :?

Wasn't it supposed to be spores that infest a planet or some such?

cheers

James

They've changed it so much over the years. The last version I can remember is having Genestealers do some 5th column work for some generations before the invasion, then shower the planet with creatures until all defenders are dead and all flesh may be eaten (and all biomass, for that matter).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 10, 2014, 08:46:17 AM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on November 10, 2014, 08:43:09 AM
They've changed it so much over the years. The last version I can remember is having Genestealers do some 5th column work for some generations before the invasion, then shower the planet with creatures until all defenders are dead and all flesh may be eaten (and all biomass, for that matter).

 lol I thought that was one of the original ideas with the genestealer covens.

Never mind GW, never mind  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 10, 2014, 08:46:51 AM
I can appreciate the creativity here. You can have a large floating armored blob with dangly tentacles. OR you can have a ground bound armored blob and a small blob with dangly tentacles.  ;D

Worst part is the product description mentions Hive ships. Which reminds me of how I was too late to really get into BFG before they stopped producing those.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 10, 2014, 09:49:07 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on November 09, 2014, 07:06:37 PM
Looks a bit too regular for me, like the designer digitally sculpted a fifth and then just mirrored it  :?

Well, that's pentameral symmetry for you  ;)  You don't hear sea urchins complaining...

it looks like a gynaecological nightmare.  Whether it's the designer who needs a shrink or me, I'll leave for you to decide  ;D

Could probably go to town and make an interesting bio-structure city or alien landscape out of one or two of these.  Or build up the base around each segment to make multiple "crash-landed" drop pods.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 10, 2014, 09:49:46 AM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on November 10, 2014, 08:33:29 AM
I think it is a kind of organic drop-pod. If so, by the rules, these things usually are placed on the table, deploy their payload (usually troops or a stompy robot thing, for Space Marines) and then take weak pot-shots at enemy units that move too close and block line of sight for the rest of the game.
That's what I thought from the description. But the one that embeds in the ground is still floating, surely if it hits the ground straight away it should be sculpted in the ground. (Actually after looking at the pic again it could possibly be starting to burrow)
The other slams into the ground forcing it to split, and this one isn't sculpted split open, smashed or anything like that.
The whole drop pod thing should be instantaneous. Saying all this though I don't know the rules for them, and haven't read any in depth background so it is all just conjecture. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 10, 2014, 11:35:27 AM
Joking aside, I remember the old build up style of hive/hive world infiltration by genestealer cults etc.

Which was to my mind at the time, quite interesting. but clearly an adaptation of the then era, eg swap communists for genestealers etc  for the infiltrating filthy dirty enemy scum..

Still although that makes nice for squad based skirmish style gaming its not that good for mass combat.

Though changing it to spores, like their orks come from? Would not surprise me either, but I missed period they had that one for it seems.

I would  suspect the main intention is to introduce another layer of purchases. eg if you have already a Tyranid army you need the delivery mechanism - introducing dangler drop pods..

if you get the danglies first, oh but then you need an army to drop off..

So its normal situation of another attempt at getting the dedicated to get their parents to buy more product?

Quote from: Westfalia Chris on November 10, 2014, 08:33:29 AM
I think it is a kind of organic drop-pod. If so, by the rules, these things usually are placed on the table, deploy their payload (usually troops or a stompy robot thing, for Space Marines) and then take weak pot-shots at enemy units that move too close and block line of sight for the rest of the game.

How much load capacity per dangler, and how quickly can they deploy it I wonder?

As their new deal army pack thing has 5 of them in it, and 29 other minis, is that the total load of five or can they produce/build more to deploy - they are supposedly living organisms after all?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 10, 2014, 11:37:53 AM
Regardless of their use, viability or intentions, they are just damn hideous and lame models.
 :o :o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 10, 2014, 11:41:22 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 10, 2014, 11:35:27 AM
How much load capacity per dangler, and how quickly can they deploy it I wonder?

 lol lol lol

That being said, ever larger vehicles appears to be theme in 40k for a while now. One could say GW has "dropped the ball" on these tough.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 10, 2014, 11:43:37 AM
I think GW kind of painted themselves into a corner with Tyranids. Granted they stole the idea from Aliens/Starship Troopers/AN Other and thus were already running along half-constructed lines, but surely the whole point of them is that they are divergent and thus evolve differently with each swarm? Thus, surely it is nonsensical to be introducing specific identical devices and systems with the models ... or is that just me?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on November 10, 2014, 12:26:08 PM
Quote
Worst part is the product description mentions Hive ships. Which reminds me of how I was too late to really get into BFG before they stopped producing those

The rules aren't too hard to get of, and a Tyranid fleet using tyranid bits is always doable - see here from a mate at the local club.

http://www.exmouthwargames.org.uk/index.php/forum/future-wars/181-tyranid-fleet.html

JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 10, 2014, 12:27:05 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 10, 2014, 11:43:37 AM
I think GW kind of painted themselves into a corner with Tyranids. Granted they stole the idea from Aliens/Starship Troopers/AN Other and thus were already running along half-constructed lines, but surely the whole point of them is that they are divergent and thus evolve differently with each swarm? Thus, surely it is nonsensical to be introducing specific identical devices and systems with the models ... or is that just me?

True. similar to them standardizing ork stuff when they are supposedly knocking up their vehicles etc from whatever can be scavanged - hence the old rules allowing for scratch built vehicles. do they still exist?

Standardizing the alien, the same as chao as well, is a bit pointless, but I guess it does narrow your choice of proxies to required standard GW number of none?

And lets face it they probably don't want the the tender target market substituting their own danglers as proxies on the battlefield?
 
Especially in the case of the ground penetrating model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 10, 2014, 12:52:05 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 10, 2014, 12:27:05 PM
Standardizing the alien, the same as chao as well, is a bit pointless, but I guess it does narrow your choice of proxies to required standard GW number of none?


The only real reason I can fathom. Didn't some old Army Book (however many editions ago) have a section on using dried flowers and seed pods to model your own drop-pods?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 10, 2014, 02:15:37 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 10, 2014, 12:52:05 PM
Didn't some old Army Book (however many editions ago) have a section on using dried flowers and seed pods to model your own drop-pods?


I think so -  but I also that was primarily because they had no model kit in production to match whatever it was you were fielding - with also no planned models for it coming into production, that was in more than just the Tyranid stuff of course. Simply they allowed gamers more usage of their own resources and imagination.

But that reflects the older gamer oriented approach from many many years ago - it just took time for them to move away from it.

Similar to rules about space marine camouflage usage..

 I think it reflects the GW business evolution, namely to limiting the range and the rules to their  product as much as possible, so official rules - matched by official model to be used accordingly.

Still I don't have any interest in their tournament gaming, and really would be inclined to choose the rules according to what I have eg - earlier editions than the current !!!MASSIVE STUFF APOCALYPSE!!! thats the current iteration.

Have epic scale for that  :D

Especially if it avoids situations of questionable games rulings, e.g. "You boy - put those proxies back in your pants and use GW branded official danglies for your dropped pods."


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 10, 2014, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: YPU on November 10, 2014, 11:41:22 AM
lol lol lol

That being said, ever larger vehicles appears to be theme in 40k for a while now. One could say GW has "dropped the ball" on these tough.  ;)

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 10, 2014, 06:45:47 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 10, 2014, 02:15:37 PM
...
Especially if it avoids situations of questionable games rulings, e.g. "You boy - put those proxies back in your pants and use GW branded official danglies for your dropped pods."

I have to say I agree with GW on this one though
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 10, 2014, 08:19:55 PM
Me to. fully agree with you and myself...

especially if they enforce the other rule about the armies having to be fully painted.

Them fully painted proxies most definitely need to be kept undercover  lol.

Still, got me wondering whats next on the release list. Can it actually be worse?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 11, 2014, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 10, 2014, 08:19:55 PM
Me to. fully agree with you and myself...

especially if they enforce the other rule about the armies having to be fully painted.

Them fully painted proxies most definitely need to be kept undercover  lol.

Still, got me wondering whats next on the release list. Can it actually be worse?
Next they will have an option to replace the 5 venom cannons with 1 giant gun mounted on top, probably an area effect flames template type gun that sprays a viscous liquid all over the enemy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 11, 2014, 06:52:05 AM
Quote from: beefcake on November 11, 2014, 05:01:53 AM
Next they will have an option to replace the 5 venom cannons with 1 giant gun mounted on top, probably an area effect flames template type gun that sprays a viscous liquid all over the enemy.

But you need 2 drop pods to field it right?... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on November 11, 2014, 07:33:46 AM
It's been few years since I last time visited the Forgeworld homepage.  o_o

They seem to have the same "buy big bundles" theme going on, oh how low the mighty have fallen...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 11, 2014, 08:38:29 AM
Quote from: pocoloco on November 11, 2014, 07:33:46 AM
It's been few years since I last time visited the Forgeworld homepage.  o_o

They seem to have the same "buy big bundles" theme going on, oh how low the mighty have fallen...

GW by proxy...

Quote from: beefcake on November 11, 2014, 05:01:53 AM
Next they will have an option to replace the 5 venom cannons with 1 giant gun mounted on top, probably an area effect flames template type gun that sprays a viscous liquid all over the enemy.

Quote from: Constable Bertrand on November 11, 2014, 06:52:05 AM
But you need 2 drop pods to field it right?... ;)

Directly appealing to the needs and desires of their target market then, great, that means all of them will want tyranid armies, all the other stuff goes on ebay..

All the  boys will be playing with their tyranid dog-dangler cannons, all day and all night long....

Tournament play might need more tissues and templates than anything else until they drop.... from the army lists   ::)

That aside apart from the prices, on both foundry and GW being so insane, they do have some things that are quite nice (yes I am trying to change the subject a bit - there's probably a limit to how much this particular model release can be milked).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 11, 2014, 03:03:36 PM
Quote from: pocoloco on November 11, 2014, 07:33:46 AM
It's been few years since I last time visited the Forgeworld homepage.  o_o

They seem to have the same "buy big bundles" theme going on, oh how low the mighty have fallen...

FW have been doing bundles (you know, the sort with financial discounts instead of GW's "here, we've saved you the bother of three mouse clicks" deals) for a while now. I suspect that the prospect of buying FW marines five at a time for a whole army's worth is too much for a lot of people otherwise.


@ Tactalvanic:

I think that either the Skull Cannon of Khorne (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Chaos-Daemons-Skull-Cannon-of-Khorne), The Tyranid Pyrovore (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Tyranid-Pyrovore), or the Tyranid Exocrine (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Exocrine) would combine well with the new Tyranid Ball Sack drop pod release. What monster could one build if you combine them together I wonder....? Kingdom Death may have met their match here! ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 11, 2014, 03:20:07 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 11, 2014, 03:03:36 PM
I think that either the Skull Cannon of Khorne (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Chaos-Daemons-Skull-Cannon-of-Khorne), The Tyranid Pyrovore (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Tyranid-Pyrovore), or the Tyranid Exocrine (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Exocrine) would combine well with the new Tyranid Ball Sack drop pod release. What monster could one build if you combine them together I wonder....? Kingdom Death may have met their match here! ::)

Blimey!
It shows you how long since I trawled around the GW site.....all three of those are hideous!
 :o :o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 11, 2014, 04:33:11 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 11, 2014, 03:03:36 PM
I think that either the Skull Cannon of Khorne (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Chaos-Daemons-Skull-Cannon-of-Khorne), The Tyranid Pyrovore (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Tyranid-Pyrovore), or the Tyranid Exocrine (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Exocrine) would combine well with the new Tyranid Ball Sack drop pod release. What monster could one build if you combine them together I wonder....? Kingdom Death may have met their match here! ::)

 :o

Well spotted Sir!

 I did not look that hard, assuming that there were not existing "bits" that could be combined already of a hideous enough nature.

Is it worth notifying Kingdom Death? Perhaps they need to slip a "Cease and Desist" into GW  for possible infringement before GW send them one retrospectively?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on November 11, 2014, 05:42:50 PM

1
Quote
Is it worth notifying Kingdom Death? Perhaps they need to slip a "Cease and Desist" into GW  for possible infringement before GW send them one retrospectively?
Don't do it man. Let sleeping dogs lie.

GW already made GW tattoo's illegal.
There's no telling how far they'll go to 'protect their IP' on this design :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 11, 2014, 06:53:31 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on November 11, 2014, 05:42:50 PM
There's no telling how far they'll go to 'protect their IP' on this design :o

It could lead to a mass extinction event... (Or massive revenue for GW if they decide to demand licence fees on "items closely resembling" their IP. But then again, how do you sue evolution?)

Ooooh, news!
GW has announced their "new" CEO:
http://investor.games-workshop.com/2014/11/11/appointment-of-ceo/ (http://investor.games-workshop.com/2014/11/11/appointment-of-ceo/)
So, the new boss is the old boss' second in command, with the old boss staying on in an "advisory" function... Riiight.  :?

I can just imagine how the board meeting went:
Kirby:
"I want you all to meet the new CEO:
(http://www.historyofthings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/sock-puppet.jpg)
I like to call him Kevin... "
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 11, 2014, 08:03:54 PM
Yeah, just saw that announcement. Well, I guess there will no new life in product development for some time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 11, 2014, 09:38:29 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 11, 2014, 09:15:43 PM
that explains the job advert. They were not even trying on that because it was a foregone conclusion. I suspect the job advert was like running a competition for marketing purposes, a good source of names and addresses to pimp tat to and without even having to give anything away as a prize! Think of it as Kirby's last FU to the hobby community.

Well no more than expected really and at least we all can feel good about being right again  :)

 I bet he can pull  a few more FUs out of Kevin though.

But still. Plenty of time for a Mr Kirby to deliver at least one more FU directly rather than by proxy, before the changeover.


But that aside.

I am sure that Kevin will fulfill his role to the best of his abilities, as he has no doubt gained many years of experience already of doing exactly what is required, and likely is a good fit for Mr Kirby. Or at least his hand, maybe all the way to the elbow... but i digress, come January they will both be comfortably eased into their new positions, and although Mr Kirby will be taking a back seat I think it is certain that he will continue to maintain his grasp of the Rod of power for some time to come. Hopefully Kevin is comfortable on the receiving end of it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 11, 2014, 10:36:21 PM
I see a link between the announcement of the new CEO and the latest release. It's all just a bunch of b*ll*cks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 12, 2014, 03:44:46 AM
So a Putin-Medvedev swap then?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 12, 2014, 08:40:08 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 12, 2014, 03:44:46 AM
So a Putin-Medvedev swap then?  lol

Astute, but careful - No politics on LAF!  :-X




Moving swiftly on, I see that Forge World's been busy again, and this time has rejuvenated one of the old classic RT "Crusader" robots.

I think it looks great, and although I won't be buying any, I really do feel once again that FW "get it" when it comes to figuring out what their long-term customers want in terms of design and models.

It also looks to me like the new Solar Auxilia are CAD-designed and the masters 3-D printed. A first for FW I think?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 12, 2014, 10:32:14 AM
Yes the robots are really nice and do reflect the older style I remember from illustrations. nothing not to like there.

Sadly way out of range of reality for my pocket money.

Agree, forgeworld do seem to get it far more than GW regards what to push out,  actually looks good, and might  sell to those who can afford/want their stuff enough.

It is interesting if they are willing to try 3d printing when sugar Daddy GW are busy saying not for years, again though that primarily related to product for the customer, so maybe they are sharing in regards to product design/modification - it would certainly help speed some development works along?

They are listed,  or rather Daddy GW, as a customer by envisiontec. So maybe its forgeworld currently have their sweaty hands on the kit rather than GW themselves, and are mixing things up with it?


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on November 12, 2014, 11:52:42 AM
I agree. If I had the money to spend (or they were a bit cheaper  ;) ) I'd definitely be buying loads of the FW Mechanicum stuff. I just seen these (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Mechanicum/Mechanicum_Troops/TECH_THRALLS_WITH_LASLOCKS.html (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Mechanicum/Mechanicum_Troops/TECH_THRALLS_WITH_LASLOCKS.html)) and thought they're a bit expensive. Then I remembered that for example, Space Marine Terminators are £35 for a box of 5 and while these guys might be smaller, they're much nicer quality, so maybe in some ways FW are better value than GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 12, 2014, 03:50:57 PM
Nice clockworky and interesting - maybe for a steampunky nightmare.

but still thats 26 smacks in the face for 5 miniatures...

5 Spacey Marines for 35 really hard smacks is, well - does not compute. I mean 7 pounds each?

Regardless of the quality of the sculpts, they just cannot justify itty bitty bits of plastic/resin/restic/failcrap or whatever being that much. Regardless the smaller/larger whatever.

You can get quality metal miniatures for less!

No for me they are good for a laugh at, admire the quality perhaps, but unless its an e-bay second hand or something pic up, no.

Better things to put my money in - like the mortgage, cheese and stocking up for the apocalypse.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 12, 2014, 04:26:41 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 12, 2014, 10:32:14 AM
Yes the robots are really nice and do reflect the older style I remember from illustrations. nothing not to like there.

Seriously tempted by those robots!
Like a MKII version of the old RT .......Crusader, was it ?
 :-* :-*

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 12, 2014, 05:00:06 PM
I can't seem to find them on the FW site? Which ones are you guys talking about? I really like their mechanicum offerings, so I'd love to see the new stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 12, 2014, 05:01:58 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 12, 2014, 05:00:06 PM
I can't seem to find them on the FW site? Which ones are you guys talking about? I really like their mechanicum offerings, so I'd love to see the new stuff.

I am talking about these:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/VORAX_BATTLE_AUTOMATA.html

Very tempting!
 8)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 12, 2014, 05:27:10 PM
Oh very cool!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on November 12, 2014, 06:20:33 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 12, 2014, 03:50:57 PM
Nice clockworky and interesting - maybe for a steampunky nightmare.

but still thats 26 smacks in the face for 5 miniatures...

5 Spacey Marines for 35 really hard smacks is, well - does not compute. I mean 7 pounds each?

Regardless of the quality of the sculpts, they just cannot justify itty bitty bits of plastic/resin/restic/failcrap or whatever being that much. Regardless the smaller/larger whatever.

You can get quality metal miniatures for less!

No for me they are good for a laugh at, admire the quality perhaps, but unless its an e-bay second hand or something pic up, no.

Better things to put my money in - like the mortgage, cheese and stocking up for the apocalypse.



Oh I'm not trying to justify that price. Just saying it's better value than GW 5-man boxed sets. That's all. I completely agree with you about better quality/cheaper miniatures elsewhere and having better things to spend my money on. Especially the stocking up for the apocalypse part.  ;) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 12, 2014, 07:26:51 PM
FW is going all out creating extra knights aren't  they. 8)

Oooh, the new WWI tank/express train is pretty hot (especially in red!) I like it, and could see it uses in various ways too.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/TRIAROS_ARMOURED_CONVEYER.html

Cheers
Matt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 12, 2014, 09:27:50 PM
Yes, forgeworld has some very pretties, but I too fall in the camp that puts priority on mortgaging my cheese for the apocalypse...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 12, 2014, 10:54:31 PM
Quote from: Diakon on November 12, 2014, 06:20:33 PM
Oh I'm not trying to justify that price. Just saying it's better value than GW 5-man boxed sets. That's all. I completely agree with you about better quality/cheaper miniatures elsewhere and having better things to spend my money on. Especially the stocking up for the apocalypse part.  ;) :D

Oh I do understand reeally, it just goes to show that even expensive forgeworld resin casts can start to look reasonably priced when compared to anything GW...

Quote from: Modhail on November 12, 2014, 09:27:50 PM
Yes, forgeworld has some very pretties, but I too fall in the camp that puts priority on mortgaging my cheese for the apocalypse...  :D

Mark my words, heed to my thoughts and gaze upon my cheese gourds. Come the apocalypse, the importance of mortgaged cheese will be of the utmost.

Still 3 robots for 48 smackers, that's almost reasonable compared to a 5 armored dog dangler transport drop-pods one click  bundle....

nooooo noooo damn you forgeworld and your pretties - I am off to sniff the cheese, or cut it. maybe both! Where did I put the cheese knife?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 12, 2014, 11:41:47 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 12, 2014, 10:54:31 PM
Still 3 robots for 48 smackers, that's almost reasonable compared to a 5 armored dog dangler transport drop-pods one click  bundle....

I think forty eight quid for three quality large sculpts like that is entirely reasonable, especially compared to trying to source the original metal 80's versions.
A bargain, actually.

The only thing stalling me is I don't actually need three, so if anyone else in the UK has the same thoughts....lets talk turkey.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 13, 2014, 09:12:20 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 12, 2014, 10:54:31 PM
[...] it just goes to show that even expensive forgeworld resin casts can start to look reasonably priced when compared to anything GW...

Yep, this. Been that way for a little while now as well.

I *know* FW is very expensive, but when it starts to look reasonable (or even cheaper) than the regular GW, then you have to chain your wallet shut just in case temptation gets the better of you.

Even so, there are some things that are not too horrendous and which I pick up from time to time as required. (The weapon packs are reasonable for example. Not exactly cheap, but they are affordable, and are usually a good-value option of acquiring lots of special or heavy weapons for a project).


Quote from: Mason on November 12, 2014, 11:41:47 PM
The only thing stalling me is I don't actually need three, so if anyone else in the UK has the same thoughts....lets talk turkey.
 :D

Yeah, I think that £16 for one *might* be tempting, but that's only on the basis of "wouldn't it be nice to have one to paint...".

Plus, I think that they would make good Reaver Titans for Epic, and at that price are again comparable to an actual Titan. There's not much on them that wouldn't "scale" to 6mm either.

However, in reality, I can't justify these sorts of GW/FW side projects any more, and... well, see my comment above about chaining wallets!  lol



(The Crusaders Vorax Battle-Automata are really nice though.  :-*)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 13, 2014, 01:18:18 PM
Regarding store rebranding (from a few pages back)

I just passed the Edinburgh store at lunchtime, and it's now "Warhammer". It looks like they are going ahead with the name change for all.

The name change doesn't really bother me (at least they didn't call it The Hobby Store), but the dark colour means you don't see it unless you're looking for it. Don't see the logic in that ???

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 13, 2014, 07:17:43 PM
Looks like a country pub to me. Will they put up trendy blackboards with chalked pictures of the new releases?

Bit amiss of the preteen age demographic if you ask me.

Cheers
Matt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 13, 2014, 09:54:00 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on November 13, 2014, 07:17:43 PM
Looks like a country pub to me. Will they put up trendy blackboards with chalked pictures of the new releases?

Bit amiss of the preteen age demographic if you ask me.



Maybe/maybe not - ever had to go in any Hollister shop? Dark and full of two demographics:

1. Teenagers.
2. Adults returning clothing bought for demographic number 1. that turned out to be the wrong thing/color when seen in daylight...

Went in the Reading one once looking for the wife, went round 3 times until she appeared out of the darkness. One of the staff asked if i was looking for something before that - I said yes my wife - answer "yeah we get that a lot with older people".....

Don't get it, they are a california originated shop and they don't light the bloody shops!

So maybe they are going for that DArk effect... so you only find the store if you already know about it - eg your a member of the in group, - nudge nudge. Then, and this is the subtle bit, turn the lights off inside the shop.

Saves on the 'lectric, stops you seeing the prices, or how bad the armored ball thing your buying is, and as an extra bonus, when the shops close down, they look just like they did when open  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 14, 2014, 09:04:01 AM
Are all the products packaged in discreet brown paper bags? lol

I could see GW going down the dark lighting option TBH.
1) It would help all those that don't like the sun  :P
2) Fits the GrimmDark theme
3) I can see GW including 'glow in the dark paint'/LEDs in their range for more PEW PEWs during combat
4) No one will be recognised by school peers passing by when within the safety of the gloom

:D
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 14, 2014, 03:01:42 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on November 14, 2014, 09:04:01 AM
Are all the products packaged in discreet brown paper bags? lol

I could see GW going down the dark lighting option TBH.
1) It would help all those that don't like the sun  :P
2) Fits the GrimmDark theme
3) I can see GW including 'glow in the dark paint'/LEDs in their range for more PEW PEWs during combat
4) No one will be recognised by school peers passing by when within the safety of the gloom

:D
Matt

I think Black bags, boxes etc would be more in keeping - why not even black light-bulbs....

With Big white 'W' printed on them all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 14, 2014, 05:07:30 PM
We weren't stealing, honest! We couldn't find the cash register in the dark. After a while we panicked and headed for the light... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 14, 2014, 06:07:09 PM
Hmmm, darkened shop, only a single overworked employee, overpriced products with high-resale value... nope, no problems here!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 14, 2014, 09:39:23 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on November 14, 2014, 09:04:01 AM
Are all the products packaged in discreet brown paper bags? lol

Maybe there's a copy of 'Big Jugs' on the till to hide your 'White Dwarf' in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 14, 2014, 10:10:12 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 14, 2014, 09:39:23 PM
Maybe there's a copy of 'Big Jugs' on the till to hide your 'White Dwarf' in.
As in "Big Jugs and other water containing vessels"?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on November 14, 2014, 11:02:55 PM
New FW robots do look quite good. They remind me of the old Crusaders, but much more detailed of course.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on November 15, 2014, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: beefcake on November 14, 2014, 10:10:12 PM
As in "Big Jugs and other water containing vessels"?

Big jugs contain milk, not water... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 15, 2014, 06:16:50 PM
That reminds me of how someone I know was talking about some fantasy game spec that was 88 and all I could think was "This fantasy game has flak cannons?"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 15, 2014, 06:21:11 PM
Quote from: Ajsalium on November 15, 2014, 03:05:47 PM
Big jugs contain milk, not water... ::)
Or beer.  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 15, 2014, 07:28:31 PM
(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99239999080_CitadelProjectBox05.jpg)

£40! (for Australia it's listed as $90!)

It's a black (!) plastic box for goodness' sake!

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Project-Box
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on November 15, 2014, 07:44:09 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on November 15, 2014, 07:28:31 PM
It's a black (!) plastic box for goodness' sake!

No, it's the one and only official project box from the one and only official provider of the one and only official wargames hobby!! The value is unassessable!  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 15, 2014, 07:50:43 PM
As Freelancer stated on another forum: "It's clearly made of the finest hand carved polyeurethane, lovingly packaged for your hobbying pleasure and offered at a special executive price for the discerning idiot."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on November 15, 2014, 07:58:04 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on November 15, 2014, 07:28:31 PM
(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99239999080_CitadelProjectBox05.jpg)

£40! (for Australia it's listed as $90!)

It's a black (!) plastic box for goodness' sake!

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Project-Box

Or you could, like me, have a biscuit tin full of paints, a pair of plastic beakers from a poundshop pack of 5 for water and brushes, a cheap cutting mat I've had for about 20 years and a newspaper covered dining table to paint on.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on November 15, 2014, 08:12:58 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on November 15, 2014, 07:50:43 PM
As Freelancer stated on another forum: "It's clearly made of the finest hand carved polyeurethane, lovingly packaged for your hobbying pleasure and offered at a special executive price for the discerning idiot."

I think that sums up my sentiments on most things coming from that direction atm...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 15, 2014, 08:25:05 PM
It only holds 49 paint pots - where are you going to put the other 111 ??? http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ultimate-Paint-Set-2014

Equally, I don't think you're meant to buy an empty box - that would just be silly. No, clearly you're meant to buy the bundle, much better value, and it comes with paint and other stuff for the project box - http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Project-Box-Web-Bundle-with-glue

Buy both, and still have change from £570.00 (granted, only 10p, but still...) o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 15, 2014, 10:32:55 PM
Not enough skullz
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 16, 2014, 12:56:12 AM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on November 16, 2014, 01:05:46 AM
Quote from: Diakon on November 15, 2014, 07:58:04 PM
Or you could, like me, have a biscuit tin full of paints, a pair of plastic beakers from a poundshop pack of 5 for water and brushes, a cheap cutting mat I've had for about 20 years and a newspaper covered dining table to paint on.  :D

You are spending too much ... I use old yoghurt pots (after eating the yoghurt) sort yourself out or you'll be ordering the Citadel box before you know it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 16, 2014, 10:04:35 AM
But you missed a crucial thing: If you spend over €150 on your limited edition miniatures with their limited edition armybook so you can paint them with your limited edition paints in your limited edition black plastic box; you can have them wrapped in GW's limited edition gift wrap (as long as it fits, they say....):
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Christmas-made-easy?_requestid=1752217#page1 (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/Christmas-made-easy?_requestid=1752217#page1)

It's almost like GW's copywriters have developed a weird collective form of Tourettes, centred on words like "exclusive", "limited" and "special edition".
What's next? "Limited edition company, buy now before we are gone forever"?

I can't put my finger on why, but this year GWs holiday offerings and sales push feel downright distasteful to me, even more so than previous years. It's barely even game content or miniatures anymore, just gimmicky tripe...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 16, 2014, 10:18:17 AM
Quote from: Scurv on November 16, 2014, 12:28:57 AM
No you have to get the accessory sprue of box skullz for $40 if you want to make it tournament approved.
I'm sure the third party market will be all over this with army specific skulls.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 16, 2014, 01:13:10 PM
 lol lol lol lol "Painting pot"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 16, 2014, 05:44:45 PM
All these wonderful products in glorious GW BLACK - with free skulz.

Black like the interior of the future shops - told you they were going for black products and packaging - well maybe not all the packaging yet - except the xmas box - if your purchases fit.. But the yellow demon thing all over the packaging is damned annoying though.

I like this http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Palette-Pad

"No more washing!" Fantastic because after buying all their stuff its not as if you would be able to afford to wash.. Anything.

Including yourself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on November 17, 2014, 12:00:22 AM
Palette pad? I use a glass saucer from ikea ... set me back 49p ... I wash it clean when I wash my hands at the end of the painting session ... I'm as lazy as the next person but seriously this is a product no one needs ... no one at all!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 17, 2014, 01:28:43 AM
Quote from: Archie on November 17, 2014, 12:00:22 AM
Palette pad? I use a glass saucer from ikea ... set me back 49p ... I wash it clean when I wash my hands at the end of the painting session ... I'm as lazy as the next person but seriously this is a product no one needs ... no one at all!

To be fair to GW on this one, it's just a recycled art product that no one in the world of fine art painting needed either. initially they were meant to be for oil/thick acrylics that would mess up a permanent pallet but they don't work, they're too flimsy and really no one is that anal about a clean pallet.so yeah, silly product, but they didn't invent it.still stupid tho.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 17, 2014, 08:47:49 AM
White 250x250mm bathroom tile for me. When there's no free space I just use a window scrapper to get the dried paint off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 17, 2014, 08:49:09 AM
I alternate between a 2 quid plastic box wet pallette and cheap pound shop plastic artist pallet and clean accordingly.

Quote from: nic-e on November 17, 2014, 01:28:43 AM
To be fair to GW on this one, it's just a recycled art product that no one in the world of fine art painting needed either. initially they were meant to be for oil/thick acrylics that would mess up a permanent pallet but they don't work, they're too flimsy and really no one is that anal about a clean pallet.so yeah, silly product, but they didn't invent it.still stupid tho.

Hehe they may not have invented but someone had the bright idea they should market one.

Suspect the person who did invent it, finally found someone to sell all his stock to.

Bloody useless... no Skulz.

Thinking though, they have missed at two things currently that I would have thought they could re-brand and add to the "kit" -

GW Kitchen towel equivalent and toilet tissue. Dye black, emboss with skulls - list as limited edition and hike the price accordingly.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 17, 2014, 08:50:04 AM
Quote from: von Lucky on November 17, 2014, 08:47:49 AM
White 250x250mm bathroom tile for me. When there's no free space I just use a window scrapper to get the dried paint off.
For a second there I thought you were talking about GW basing requirements.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 17, 2014, 09:01:57 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 17, 2014, 08:49:09 AM
[...] GW Kitchen towel equivalent and toilet tissue. [..]

For some reason, that particular snippet made me shudder with revulsion at the thought!  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 17, 2014, 09:08:28 AM
Don't they issue the latter anually, at the start of the investor's report?  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 17, 2014, 09:43:36 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 17, 2014, 08:49:09 AM
GW Kitchen towel equivalent and toilet tissue. Dye black, emboss with skulls - list as limited edition and hike the price accordingly.

Think I'll skip on the spiky "Mark of Khorne" Chaos toilet roll thank you.  "Blood for the Blood God" indeed  :o

Palettes and water cups?  Ice cream tub lid and yoghurt pots.  Lots of yummy freebies with them too!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 17, 2014, 09:48:03 AM
I use corflute board from an old abandoned project.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 17, 2014, 09:51:45 AM
The other thing they sneaked in is the new price of the "three monster" kits.  They're mostly in the range £28 - £35 (although it wasn't THAT long ago they were £20); the new venomthrope/zoanthrope kit is £40...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 17, 2014, 11:04:34 AM
Personally I use hand forged Brass cups for my water. But then I have piles of the things lying around from practice.

I seem to remember P3, the privateer press paint stuff, doing a wet pallet some years ago that got good reviews. I was wondering why they don't make a SKULZZZ version of that but I suppose that they do not approve of mixing your own colors, you should stick to the prescribed silly named ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 17, 2014, 11:12:02 AM
And Khorne forbid it's a wet palette! The users would consume less paint. On second thoughts let's make the paint pots have cruddy seals so the paint dries quickly too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 17, 2014, 12:48:57 PM
Oh no!

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Macragge-Blue-Water-Pot-and-Bitz-Box?_requestid=2557060

And the three other variants have sold out for UK purchase !

Oddly there are some different types available for US pre-order and delivery, lucky USA !

Quote from: Momotaro on November 17, 2014, 09:51:45 AM
The other thing they sneaked in is the new price of the "three monster" kits.  They're mostly in the range £28 - £35 (although it wasn't THAT long ago they were £20); the new venomthrope/zoanthrope kit is £40...

A just before christmas price rise? well - nothing new there then  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 17, 2014, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 17, 2014, 12:48:57 PM
A just before christmas price rise? well - nothing new there then  ::)

You're seeing that wrong, according to GW those are "price adjustments"...  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 17, 2014, 02:27:15 PM
Quote from: Modhail on November 17, 2014, 01:02:57 PM
You're seeing that wrong, according to GW those are "price adjustments"...  o_o

Technically it's an exciting new luxury price on a new kit.

Maybe the price is what GW are talking about when they say "limited edition"?

"New, limited-edition kit, only £40.  Get it now before it's £45!!!!".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 17, 2014, 04:22:00 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on November 17, 2014, 02:27:15 PM
"New, limited-edition kit, only £40.  Get it now before it's £45!!!!".

It's funny how often it works out exactly like that...  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 17, 2014, 04:23:22 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on November 17, 2014, 02:27:15 PM
Technically it's an exciting new luxury price on a new kit.

Maybe the price is what GW are talking about when they say "limited edition"?

"New, limited-edition kit, only £40.  Get it now before it's £45!!!!".

You sir are a genius and should get payed or at least a commission from Kevin the GW Puppet "Master"

Maybe a free skull perhaps. that might be stretching it a bit though.

Mind you its been their policy for a long time now, but at least we have a good name for it  lol

 o_o Limited edition pricing. o_o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 17, 2014, 04:27:58 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 17, 2014, 04:23:22 PM
You sir are a genius and should get payed or at least a commission from Kevin the GW Puppet "Master"

Maybe a free skull perhaps. that might be stretching it a bit though.

How about a skull-pipe (for the discerning grim-drak Gentleman)?

(http://www.fvstore.com/i/2012/10/14/ANTIQUE-Hand-Carved-MEERSCHAUM-Figural-PIPE-with-LADY-039-S-HAND-HOLDING-SKULL-1890-0.jpg)

I hear that they're every Commissar's "must-have" "limited edition" item this year!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 17, 2014, 05:06:24 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 17, 2014, 04:27:58 PM
How about a skull-pipe (for the discerning grim-drak Gentleman)?

(http://www.fvstore.com/i/2012/10/14/ANTIQUE-Hand-Carved-MEERSCHAUM-Figural-PIPE-with-LADY-039-S-HAND-HOLDING-SKULL-1890-0.jpg)

I hear that they're every Commissar's "must-have" "limited edition" item this year!  lol

Not their style, the sculpting on the skull is too realistic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 17, 2014, 05:07:33 PM
Now that, despite there being even less chance of me actually using it than GW's latest limited edition abomination-of-the-month, I'd actually prepared to pay GW price for....  :-* ;D
That's a wonderfully unsetting piece of smokeware.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 17, 2014, 05:42:01 PM
Quote from: Modhail on November 17, 2014, 05:07:33 PM
Now that, despite there being even less chance of me actually using it than GW's latest limited edition abomination-of-the-month, I'd actually prepared to pay GW price for....  :-* ;D
That's a wonderfully unsetting piece of smokeware.

If you head to some of the bigger antique stores here you can find some really awesome pipes like these,normally pretty cheap since smoking stuff tends not to sell very well anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 17, 2014, 06:11:11 PM
That's why I tend to not go into them... I need a tobacco pipe even less than I need an armoured Tyranid testicle.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 17, 2014, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from: Modhail on November 17, 2014, 06:11:11 PM
That's why I tend to not go into them... I need a tobacco pipe even less than I need an armoured Tyranid testicle.  lol

So by GW logic you need that tobacco pipe pretty damn fast.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 17, 2014, 08:46:11 PM
Scurv, be careful, they just might pressgang you as a designer...  ;)
Ack, the picture didn't load the first time around, didn't realise it was an actual GW design already...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on November 17, 2014, 08:51:03 PM
This is a good piece for anyone interested in the '14 GW Skull Off Scurv.

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120299019_WitchfateTorNEW01.jpg)

 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 17, 2014, 09:53:42 PM
If only they'd brought out a LOTR 'Paths of the Dead' terrain set ... that would have been beautiful, man.

(http://furiousfanboys.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lotrex_best_06.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 17, 2014, 10:02:22 PM
The truth of the matter is found in the Realm of Battle gameboard:
(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2008/12/realm_of_battle_board_dayone_022-08145714.JPG)
The Warhammer world actually has a geological layer of skulls!  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on November 17, 2014, 10:55:42 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 17, 2014, 10:17:55 PM
they really needed a hellfire effect lighting the layer of topskull to make that terrain pop.

Dont encourage them!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on November 17, 2014, 10:56:24 PM
Quote from: Bezzo on November 17, 2014, 07:22:16 PM
GW makes me think of a favourite aunt. When I was a kid she was fun, and always coming up with something amusing. Now she has aged and gone a bit....strange. What she does does not always make sense to me, and I tend to avoid her when I can. That's a pity, and I prefer to think of her as she was, and not as she is now.

PERFECTLY Put!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 18, 2014, 12:15:50 AM
I think I found GW's latest design sneakily sneaked from right underneath their noses. I believe it's either a space Marine in full battleskull dress or a skaven assassin masquerading as a skull. Anyway here's the pic
(http://www.jarodkanderson.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Human-Skull.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on November 18, 2014, 12:22:46 AM
At Bugman's Bar the new anthem is sung, with a slight change of lyrics, to the tune of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK7n1Q-fDeA
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 18, 2014, 01:33:36 AM
 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on November 18, 2014, 10:09:58 AM
Quote from: Scurv on November 18, 2014, 01:12:32 AM
I think they should do a range of headless undead to represent the fact every skull on the planet is decorating something other than the owners neck.

They could do a whole campaign for it, the dead trying to retrieve their skullz....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on November 18, 2014, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on November 18, 2014, 10:09:58 AM
They could do a whole campaign for it, the dead trying to retrieve their skullz....

Oi, that's a lot of headless horsemen....  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on November 18, 2014, 03:47:11 PM
I just found this in my inbox:

(http://[b]Missed out on Space Hulk? Maybe not...‏[/b]

Many of you have contacted us to say how frustrated you were that our US and Canadian webstores sold out so quickly. We listened, and we have good news!

 
We’ve managed to get our hands on a small number of copies, and we’ve decided to ship them to our warehouse in Memphis and make them available again for those of you who missed out.


These copies are currently on their way, and we expect them back in stock in early December. We don’t know for certain when they’ll get there, so keep watching your inbox. We’ll send you an email notification as soon as they arrive, but you’ll need to act fast. Once these ones are gone, that’s it. The warehouse really will be bare!)

So, the original 'limited' space hulk which turned out to be not so limited and so special it would never be printed again but was actually printed again a few years later but was only a small limited run where you have to rush to get your limited special collectors edition that was limited stock turns out to be not so limited but still a collector's special collection limited item where you can still have another chance because they found a limited amount of the limited collectors edition which you can add to your collection for a limited special time.

Awesome  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2014, 03:48:42 PM
They could do a Tyrannid mission pack - All the tyrannid swarms go looking to retrieve the dropped pods/dog danglers they have lost.

New range of miniatures with lots of tentacles but no test....round armored pods attached.

But here's a bargain!

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Pack-of-Skulls

16 skulls! 50p each! you could make a complete GW miniature out of them, with a couple spare, cheaper than buying a GW mini with all the other useless bits (arms legs etc etc)

amazing value
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 18, 2014, 04:04:51 PM
Timbor, I'm not sure if it was here or elswhere, but I predicted that exact thing...  Sad really, that they'd try such a transparent trick twice.

I think I have an inkling of what the next Warhammer race will be: A race of squishy-headed warriors who are quite miffed about their craniums being stolen...

Or perhaps it's why all Bretonnian knights and Chaos warriors wear those pot helmets all the time? Their skulls are the entry fee to their warrior society. They're actually Mi-Go brain cylinders sat on their shoulders...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 18, 2014, 04:07:14 PM
They've just updated their pre-orer page to offer what looks like a free empty box on orders over £100 - http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/  o_o

And you'd better hurry, because it's limited edition lol

I think the shark has been jumped, the fat lady has sung, and Elvis is half way down the street ;D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2014, 04:12:54 PM
Quote from: zemjw on November 18, 2014, 04:07:14 PM


I think the shark has been jumped, the fat lady has sung, and Elvis is half way down the street ;D



That they maybe, but they are all out of their skulls
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on November 18, 2014, 05:48:39 PM
Quote from: Modhail on November 18, 2014, 04:04:51 PM
Timbor, I'm not sure if it was here or elswhere, but I predicted that exact thing...  Sad really, that they'd try such a transparent trick twice.



I know someone on here called that, which is why I found it so amusing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on November 18, 2014, 08:46:41 PM
My skull hurts already, so everybody please cool it a bit with all that boneheadedness.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2014, 09:58:36 PM
Ok something completely different

Linky

http://www.mordheim-cityofthedamned.com/

Please forgive in advance if someone already mentioned it  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on November 18, 2014, 10:32:52 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2014, 04:12:54 PM
That they maybe, but they are all out of their skulls

That had me laughing outloud!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on November 18, 2014, 10:59:16 PM
There is also this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201215781885?_trksid=p11002.c100206.m2375&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140409141113%26meid%3D4371239b964d4892b190a4ef0937c6d0%26pid%3D100206%26prg%3D20140409141113%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D171535132355&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:GB:3160

A snip at £400 and £160 postage! Oops!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on November 18, 2014, 11:20:47 PM
Quote from: joroas on November 18, 2014, 10:59:16 PM
There is also this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201215781885?_trksid=p11002.c100206.m2375&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140409141113%26meid%3D4371239b964d4892b190a4ef0937c6d0%26pid%3D100206%26prg%3D20140409141113%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D171535132355&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:GB:3160

A snip at £300 and £160 postage!

£300? It's £399!!!

He shouldn't be using that glue  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 18, 2014, 11:47:45 PM
I was in the main downtown Toronto gaming shop today and was reminded how GW's insane retailer policies have reached the point where they are actively robbing themselves.

I recently discovered a fun new scenery use for my ink washes, doing detail wood stains that really pick up the grain - it's a beautiful effect and it's much more forgiving of a little glue spot here or there.

However, I don't want to use my precious old stock for this stuff and I'm not looking for an exact match so any old brand will do. So after the initial experiments, I decided to pick up some other stuff to use. I had some Agrax from before (awful for minis, but great for darker wood!) and picked up some Army Painter Strong Tone as well to experiment with, so I'm well-covered for various browns. Thing is, I also need a nice golden brown somewhat like the old Gryphonne Sepia for fresher-cut wood and while I've tried a couple of brands (the AP Soft Tone is really just a lighter brown, Secret Weapon and Vallejo sepias and yellows didn't look good either) they just won't do. They're either a bright yellow or a straight brown.

Apparently the new GW Sepia is actually not that far off though it still has the gloss and coverage issues of the new washes (but again, this didn't matter for what I'm doing). Alright, fine, grumble grumble, I'll try it. But not only was the shop out of stock on all washes, they have been out of stock for months with absolutely no word from GW as to when or even if they'll ever get a restock, despite the store having them on order for that long. This is a very large shop that does a very large amount of trade, so we're not talking about some minor player. Of course GW's paranoia about retailers reselling online results in deranged parsimony so even when people like me are stupid enough to actually want to spend money on GW products, we can't! Ha!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 19, 2014, 12:02:46 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 18, 2014, 11:47:45 PM
Apparently the new GW Sepia is actually not that far off though it still has the gloss and coverage issues of the new washes (but again, this didn't matter for what I'm doing). Alright, fine, grumble grumble, I'll try it. But not only was the shop out of stock on all washes, they have been out of stock for months with absolutely no word from GW as to when or even if they'll ever get a restock, despite the store having them on order for that long. This is a very large shop that does a very large amount of trade, so we're not talking about some minor player. Of course GW's paranoia about retailers reselling online results in deranged parsimony so even when people like me are stupid enough to actually want to spend money on GW products, we can't! Ha!

This usually happens just before GW open a store nearby.

They allow the independent retailer to establish the GW fan base for them and once said store is selling enough GW product they pull the plug and open a rival store to them.

Let us see if this happens near you.....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 19, 2014, 05:12:43 AM
I doubt it. They've closed two of their three stores in the Toronto area in the past two years.

This store's been in business for many years (they only moved downtown last year, but they weren't too far out of the core before). I wouldn't say there's been any change in the GW scene in town, other than maybe a mild decline given all the competition from other, better games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 19, 2014, 06:05:56 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 19, 2014, 05:12:43 AM
I doubt it. They've closed two of their three stores in the Toronto area in the past two years.

This store's been in business for many years (they only moved downtown last year, but they weren't too far out of the core before). I wouldn't say there's been any change in the GW scene in town, other than maybe a mild decline given all the competition from other, better games.

Fair do's.....

Maybe I should have started with the words 'Historically in the UK'....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 19, 2014, 06:10:04 AM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 19, 2014, 06:44:33 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2014, 09:58:36 PM
Ok something completely different

Linky

http://www.mordheim-cityofthedamned.com/

Please forgive in advance if someone already mentioned it  :D
That, I am actually looking forward to. Just have to have a better look at the site now, hopefully it will live up to things. Hopefully they won't do what they did with BB and make a base game, then bring out an expanded version with all the teams in it.
Edit: after a quick look, no undead in there or witch hunters. Honestly once the core mechanics are sorted is it really that hard to get the designers to make some extra creatures for the game? Sigh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 19, 2014, 08:47:08 AM
Quote from: Scurv on November 19, 2014, 08:41:13 AM
they will bring out the other half of the game as DLC....

That's the Christmas 2015 release....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 19, 2014, 10:06:27 AM
I hate DLC, it's just an excuse for not finishing a game properly then getting loads more cash out of people yet not giving you as much as what used to be called an expansion (in most cases). Blood bowl is cheap t buy now though so hopefully this will get that way too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 19, 2014, 11:59:53 AM
Are we going to see a BFG game in a few years then?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 19, 2014, 12:55:15 PM
it would fit the pattern

its another abandoned support game and there are several companies with licenses for 40k games now  - Sega, Sliverine, etc, so any one of those could quietly be doing something.

As Scurv mentions Epic is out there to as abandoned by GW.

But they still have IP

So, without actually producing anything to have to 'support', they can still get money from the IP.

And if they are good sellers, then they might do some physical products based on the computer product...

I can  imagine  them in a couple years time selling boxed sets of 6m epic scale  marine squads for 35 quid ( 5 space marine minis and one base per box of course), as a tie-in with a computer game..

Limited edition product and price of course.

The Standard 28mm scale Marine squads (not limited edition) of course will be a considerably higher limited edition price, probably one to a box by then, due to manufacturing and other costs of course having to be factored in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 19, 2014, 03:35:16 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 19, 2014, 01:58:36 PM
TBH it just makes sense for GW to put the specialist stuff into the digital gaming realm. I for one would fully support them in it too. A computer game here sells for $89 for a big title. Add ons about $20 to $40. Stick an online component in it and steam stuff and you cripple piracy. Its a good earn for them.

With bloodbowl I can get a game against a human opponent 24/7 and have fun without having to ever refer to a rule book. It looks great and plays fine. I dont feel I am getting a lesser experience than if I got my boxed set of BB and had a game. (which has never happened because I have not finished painting the figs...) In fact it would be accurate to say I prefer computerised blood bowl.

That about covers it. Hopefully we get a decent game. I will be watching via steam with interest. maybe tempted eventually.  ::)

now if they add some decent DLC, maybe chuck in some virtual skulz  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 19, 2014, 04:35:37 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 19, 2014, 04:24:21 PM
If they are really smart they will promote modding too like total war does. It keeps sales chugging along, long after its dead normally.

True, but seeing GW's urge/obsession about keeping control of their IP and "not diluting the brand" for fear of a reduction in perceived (by them at least) high value, I don't think they'll condone modding, let alone promote it. Which is a shame.

I do hope Mordheim is enough of a succes that they'll consider Necromunda next. I'd love a pc version of Necromunda...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 19, 2014, 06:15:12 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 19, 2014, 11:57:14 AM
there was another indie game in development that was essentially 6mm wargaming for the computer in the vein of epic. It's development has stalled somewhat so I am waiting to see if it gets out of alpha.

and yes DLC is more often than not the other half of the game/vast patch these days to turn it into the game you thought you were actually buying. I have the BB full edition and the original  and I will say it in its basic version it was still a finished game. Lets hope this one stars off just as good.

Ain't that the truth. There's a couple of games I flat refuse to buy on release. Not just because it'll be on sale for 75% off less than a year later, but also because they ship with so much missing. The Civilization series has become particularly notorious for this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 19, 2014, 06:59:00 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 19, 2014, 04:24:21 PM
If they are really smart they will promote modding too like total war does. It keeps sales chugging along, long after its dead normally. The core products I can see them not wanting to duplicate in computer games unless its a computer game version like dawn of war but the specialist stuff might even revive the tabletop ranges.

I just got a free copy of Mount and Blade from GOG. I've only played the base game (over the entire time I have ever had it) for about an hour, all the others have been mods. TLD is a great mod for that with all the factions in Lord of the rings played in Middle Earth.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Archie on November 20, 2014, 12:00:19 AM
Going back to the post on the page before I went into the York store recently only to find them out of stock of bases ... BASES!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on November 20, 2014, 01:01:56 AM
Quote from: Archie on November 20, 2014, 12:00:19 AM
Going back to the post on the page before I went into the York store recently only to find them out of stock of bases ... BASES!



I hate going in the York store, Archie. Once, about a year ago, I was in there browsing and I overheard two members of staff insulting (calling him dumb if I recall) a lad behind his back because he hadn't understood a rule. The lad looked about 12-13. Haven't been in since.

On the other hand a couple of years ago they had a pretty nice bloke managing it. I was waiting with my dog for my girlfriend, who was in Banks music, and it was raining really heavy. The manager saw me looking at the window display and popped his head out and said I could bring the dog in out of the rain if I wanted. on't think he's there anymore.

Get bases cheaper off ebay anyway. I grabbed a bag of 100 25mm round for a couple of quid, 50 30mm lipped for same, 10 flying bases for £3 and 30 40mm round for about £2.50 I think (Not all at once, over a couple of years  lol).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 20, 2014, 11:54:05 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2014, 03:48:42 PM
But here's a bargain!

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Pack-of-Skulls

16 skulls! 50p each! you could make a complete GW miniature out of them, with a couple spare, cheaper than buying a GW mini with all the other useless bits (arms legs etc etc)

amazing value

But it's in "finely detailed resin" (i.e. Failcast), so you'll get 50% skull sculpts and 50% bubbles where skull sculpts should be. This is obviously to prevent you making skull models of your own, and the emphasise that they are strictly basing items.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 20, 2014, 05:18:06 PM
Those aren't bubbles, they're bullet holes. Skulls don't make themselves, you know.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 20, 2014, 05:43:56 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 20, 2014, 01:28:21 AM
http://www.slitherine.com/games/warhammer_PC

40k hex based wargame with full modding options.  :o

Not going to challenge the 40k tt game but looks like it might be a great fun game in itself. Should be a good intro to the GW universe with the younger tech savvy generation.
Still early days but if they actually deliver on those claims it might be a deeper strategy game then current edition.  :D  ;D But even then I also always feel I would prefer actual models on the board.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 20, 2014, 09:09:00 PM
Good points Scurv, its also why a large amount of paper minis, including some impressive vehicle paper models are used a lot in Russia - no way of affording the real thing in some places, or even of them even getting there in the first place.

Quote from: Scurv on November 20, 2014, 08:49:26 PM

then you have countries where the cost of minis makes them impossible to have.

In many respects comp games deliver a valid option or the only gaming option for many.

I thinks that this is specifically part of GW's marketing strategy - to unite the world in being unable to afford their limited edition prices, and bring unity through unafordability, to all.

And sometimes, lets face it, computer games give us the instant gratification of being able to play with ourselves when we don't feel like playing with others   :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 20, 2014, 09:10:19 PM
When you put it like that Scurv, I'm glad I live where I do in this big Brown country.

It's nice to have a little perspective in our lives, and helps us to get what others live with.

In regards to a pack of skulls, just get a cheap box of skelly parts from WGF for all your basing needs.

Cheers
Matt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 20, 2014, 09:23:35 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on November 20, 2014, 09:10:19 PM
When you put it like that Scurv, I'm glad I live where I do in this big Brown country.

It's nice to have a little perspective in our lives, and helps us to get what others live with.

In regards to a pack of skulls, just get a cheap box of skelly parts from WGF for all your basing needs.

Cheers
Matt.

Excuse me sir your skull does not appear to be GW issue, we are going to have to remove it...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on November 20, 2014, 10:18:04 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 20, 2014, 09:58:25 PM
I would also like to see us be able to talk about relevant computer games that are true wargames in every respect. Merely for examples sake -  steel panthers WWII or grigsby's war in the pacific. Also games where its a wargame using the abilities of the computer. You look at something like the mod rome total realism VII and its a fully researched fully accurate ancients warfare game that with the ability to pause becomes a true miniature wargame trapped in a computer screen. I play it exactly like a TT game. I pause issue my units orders and then start it going then after a while pause again and issue new orders and so forth just like a tt game.


That's exactly what I love about games like X-Com and Fallout Tactics. Both those games feel exactly like playing a tabletop game to me and I've even managed to get people interested in tt wargaming by telling them "It's a bit like Fallout Tactics, but on the tabletop". I'm gonna have a look into those other games you've mentioned too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 21, 2014, 07:04:04 PM
Recently Sega ported an old PS3 hit, Valkyria Chronicles to PC. It's basically WWII anime-style, which I know to some folks on the board sounds utterly horrible, but it's actually a very, very well-made game, contentious issues are handled with surprising sensitivity and aplomb (the game's cutesy packaging notwithstanding), and overall it's a boatload of fun.

The actual missions themselves use a command point activation system for using your units which would be entirely familiar with tabletop gamers. There are some real-time elements (you do the aiming for your soldiers), but overall it's one of the closer simulations of a conventional tabletop game I've ever seen on a PC or console, albeit the more "fun" ones of recent decades, rather than older, hardcore Avalon Hill-style wargames (those do have a long history on PC already).

And on the subject of Asian wargamers, I expect the small living spaces in most cities also has a big impact on how popular tabletop stuff is in the east. Scenery and game elements can take up a lot of physical space. Card and computer games virtually nil (well, okay, I have an entire closet full of my wife and mine's Magic the Gathering collections, but we've been playing for an aggregate 40 years between the two of us).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 21, 2014, 08:23:53 PM
This week's releases up.

Endtimes: Khaine, 500 hardback copies sold out already.

LotR releases!  Mirkwood elves in battle gear - everything in finecast, prices no worse than last year (i.e. still terrible).  Some finecast elf cavalry - £18 for 2 models!  Or a unit of 6 for £54.

Lovely models though  ;D

A basic elf army - 5 characters (2 mounted), 1 captain, 18 infantry and 6 cavalry - £225!!!  It doesn't help that the cost for the 5 characters (Legolas and Thranduil foot+mounted, plus Tauriel on foot) is now touching £70, but finecast rank and file models are again a stupid, stupid move.  It's really not selling is it?

Was it only 2011 that you'd have change from £30 for a bigger LotR army in plastic???

Also a bit worried why they're releasing these first - no Battle of Five Armies boxed set  then?   :'(

And also out this week, a bunch of 40k and WFB army bundles that appear to have replaced the quietly "disappeared" Battlefore and Battalion boxes.  Prices from £140 to £500.

They have lost their minds.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 21, 2014, 08:36:29 PM
Quote from: Bezzo on November 21, 2014, 07:23:52 PM
Fram Framson
Not being flippant Fram but Wiki says the most popular amateur sport in the region is table tennis. Bear in mind you need a good sized movement area around the table too. Most wargamers would love to game on something as large as a ping-pong table. I realise the table tennis tables will virtually all be in institutional settings but I am not sure how far we can take the linkage between small accommodation and  hobby preference.

The thing is, in a lot of Asian cities, people may use their apartments for basic living but will hang out in more communal spaces. So maybe the apartment has a table tennis or games room, or there's a rec centre, or club space in an old building or whatever. I think we all know what happens to wargames terrain and such left in a shared space where lots of people have access - even well-meaning, mature groups will see that terrain worn out and damaged far more often than folks who keep their stuff at home. And leaving armies in such places gives you the same problem, plus (and this is an even bigger and more important drawback), it's hard to work on armies stored outside your own home without careful planning.

I mean, none of those difficulties are insurmountable and Asian tabletop wargamers certainly do exist, it's just a lot less common because there are a lot of extra inconveniences in the way.

The tradition is also much more recent. In Europe and North America Wargames go back to the turn of the 20th century (and a lot farther if you include the long history of military officers wargaming). In Asia, they only really go back to about the 80's as any sort of hobby. So it's just like any other hobby and competes on an equal footing with say, CCGs, which are much more accessible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 21, 2014, 10:27:49 PM
Well, they do have a tradition of doing detailed model kits in Japan, but it's more the sort of perfectionist stuff that's a more popular in Japan, trying for maximum realism and detail.

Also a lot of the model kits are just characters and toys from anime rather than warfare (though there are lots of car and plane modellers too). 

Anyway we're on topic... we're discussing causative factors behind regional variations in GW's global market share  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 22, 2014, 02:36:43 AM
Excellent. Thanks for taking one for the team ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 22, 2014, 10:14:29 AM
So it's turned based? Follows the mordheim rulebook?

I just did a survey on the GW site. Answered truthfully about what I thought of the site. Was so tempted to pretend to be a 14 year old fan boy that hated the site but didn't. Did it properly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on November 22, 2014, 06:48:04 PM
I'm sure I saw an interview by the developer where they said it wasn't a direct translation of the TT game but they've tried to replicate the feel of the TT game. I never played Mordheim but you are right it does feel like a miniature game in computerised form. I have hopes for it. The early access is fine but I expect a lot more when it's finished.

If it allows me to play wih friends and have our gangs advance in xp? Retain injuries etc then it will be a winner. Now where is Necromunda?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 23, 2014, 01:46:54 AM
Yeah. I want necromunda.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: redeaston on November 25, 2014, 10:07:00 AM
Just seen the new Hobbit stuff and there are some nice sculpts but they are too expensive for me. I am not sure how they expect people to do the battle of the five armies if the basic troops are £15 for 3.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Wirelizard on November 25, 2014, 10:54:38 AM
Quote from: redeaston on November 25, 2014, 10:07:00 AM
Just seen the new Hobbit stuff and there are some nice sculpts but they are too expensive for me. I am not sure how they expect people to do the battle of the five armies if the basic troops are £15 for 3.

Nobody needs both their kidneys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on November 25, 2014, 11:37:24 AM
Quote from: Wirelizard on November 25, 2014, 10:54:38 AM
Nobody needs both their kidneys.

But its finding a buyer for a kidney, cant expect games workshop prices for those things HAH  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on November 25, 2014, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 25, 2014, 12:06:34 PM
its the sort of deal where you at least insist on free ice.

LOTS of free ice haha, the kind bought at tesco..... :`
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 25, 2014, 01:06:06 PM
I think we all should take a step back, and consider several things.

1.  The miniatures in question are cast in quality "resin".
2. A web exclusive, no discount whatsoever offer is available.
3. It might fit in the xmas box, if you spend enough to get one.
4. It is not necessary to sell either of your own kidneys, if you still have two - other people have them to don't you know.

They don't need two of them either....

Still that silliness aside, they are down to 3 or 2 miniatures per box so they are almost there.. soon very soon, maybe within 12 to 18 months do you think the entire GW range will be exclusive plastic/resin/failcast 1 per box, at the limited edition price of 15 GBP per box?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on November 26, 2014, 11:07:00 AM
It's heading that way.  You'll notice they haven't even bothered to put the two-kidney costing Thranduil on an Elk.  Battle of the five proxies here we come.

JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 26, 2014, 11:27:20 AM
Quote from: Streetline on November 26, 2014, 11:07:00 AM
Battle of the five proxies here we come.

Seriously......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 26, 2014, 04:18:40 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on November 26, 2014, 11:27:20 AM
Seriously......

hmm I don't remember war-elks being particularly heavily featured in the original novels... Hobbit or any other.

Why they could not put him on a horse in the first place - movie nonsense.

Quote from: Streetline on November 26, 2014, 11:07:00 AM
Thranduil on an Elk.  Battle of the five proxies here we come.

JDE

Have to say if they did one, I still would not bother having a 5 army battle with him on it..

Would not want any of that Moosing about in the game.




Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on November 26, 2014, 11:43:58 PM
Elves on War Elks may be an acquired taste, I'll admit.  But GW paid to acquire this taste, so why they're not actually producing what they've paid to be able to produce is anyone's guess.

JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 27, 2014, 01:38:00 AM
Quote from: Streetline on November 26, 2014, 11:43:58 PM
Elves on War Elks may be an acquired taste, I'll admit.  But GW paid to acquire this taste, so why they're not actually producing what they've paid to be able to produce is anyone's guess.

JDE

Shhh, if you ask that, then they'll have to actually make a plastic smaug kit, and even they don't want to price that one up.....

(apparently they did make one but the studio rejected it because they had to scale him down and alter it a bit to make the kit anywhere near affordable/playable)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: starkadder on November 27, 2014, 01:46:04 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 25, 2014, 01:06:06 PM

Still that silliness aside, they are down to 3 or 2 miniatures per box so they are almost there.. soon very soon, maybe within 12 to 18 months do you think the entire GW range will be exclusive plastic/resin/failcast 1 per box, at the limited edition price of 15 GBP per box?

Development from that point will be simple and surprisingly useful.

Sell single torsos (at the standard price)

Offer upper limb extra packs (at the standard price) with weapons.
Armored limbs are available separately

Offer lower limb extra packs (at the standard price) standing or running
Shod feet are available separately

Offer head pack (at the standard price) - bare headed, helmeted, whatever
 
You will be able to mix and match to create absolutely unique figures at only 60 quid per figure.

Bargain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 27, 2014, 09:01:49 AM
Quote from: Scurv on November 26, 2014, 07:13:35 PM
had another game of the mordheim. figured out how to call up a map which improved the experience 110%
Ohhh you tempter you ....

Quote from: starkadder on November 27, 2014, 01:46:04 AM

You will be able to mix and match to create absolutely unique figures at only 60 quid per figure.

Bargain.

Wow. That would certainly be a limited edition price  :o

Do you secretly work in their pricing department?
Quote from: Streetline on November 26, 2014, 11:43:58 PM
Elves on War Elks may be an acquired taste, I'll admit.  But GW paid to acquire this taste, so why they're not actually producing what they've paid to be able to produce is anyone's guess.

JDE

True. Maybe its because of the age old GW "metal/resin/plastic/failcast is very expensive" fantasy rule.

Or maybe Smaug ate them all ?

Quote from: nic-e on November 27, 2014, 01:38:00 AM
Shhh, if you ask that, then they'll have to actually make a plastic smaug kit, and even they don't want to price that one up.....

(apparently they did make one but the studio rejected it because they had to scale him down and alter it a bit to make the kit anywhere near affordable/playable)

I think starkadder has that covered, release in separate part packs. or installments - say a monthly Smaug magazine, or attach to one of the variant white dwarf mags, pump up the price accordingly (leave it up when they finish the dragon bits of course)

Collect all the issues to complete your Smaug dragon..

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 27, 2014, 11:53:08 AM
I liked the war elk. Gave the Wood Elves a sort of ... I don't know, capricious and sinister nature deities feel I guess, like a Cernunnos flavour.

Thingy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 27, 2014, 05:42:55 PM
Quote from: nic-e on November 27, 2014, 01:38:00 AM
Shhh, if you ask that, then they'll have to actually make a plastic smaug kit, and even they don't want to price that one up.....

(apparently they did make one but the studio rejected it because they had to scale him down and alter it a bit to make the kit anywhere near affordable/playable)

I'd heard that rumour too... and helped to spread it a bit further  ;)

On the other hand, I believe Smaug had a late change from four legs to two in the film, which might have messed up the model GW had ready.

It's not the first time - there were miniature releases for figures like Bolg, who was cut from An Unexpected Journey at the last minute, and was completely different when he did appear in Desolation of Smaug.  Several toy companies were caught out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 28, 2014, 01:15:13 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on November 27, 2014, 05:42:55 PM
I'd heard that rumour too... and helped to spread it a bit further  ;)

On the other hand, I believe Smaug had a late change from four legs to two in the film, which might have messed up the model GW had ready.

It's not the first time - there were miniature releases for figures like Bolg, who was cut from An Unexpected Journey at the last minute, and was completely different when he did appear in Desolation of Smaug.  Several toy companies were caught out.

I think aswell that smaug is going to have to be more of a mechanic than an actual unit.representing him in game accurately would be impossible as he would be near immortal save for a black arrow wielding unit, which could only one shot.plus with his sheer size GW would basically have to just make his head, or have his different feet on separate bases and have him be a piece of terrain that attacks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 28, 2014, 02:55:32 PM
I found this review of warhammer 40K: armageddon fairly useful to get an overview.

http://youtu.be/baHX0PP1eVQ (http://youtu.be/baHX0PP1eVQ)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 28, 2014, 04:48:27 PM
Quote from: nic-e on November 28, 2014, 01:15:13 AM
I think aswell that smaug is going to have to be more of a mechanic than an actual unit.representing him in game accurately would be impossible as he would be near immortal save for a black arrow wielding unit, which could only one shot.plus with his sheer size GW would basically have to just make his head, or have his different feet on separate bases and have him be a piece of terrain that attacks.

Special Limited Edition Games WorkshopTM CitadelTM Interactive Poseable SmaugTM C New Line Cinema donut steel

(http://www.activityvillage.co.uk/sites/default/files/images/sock_puppet_dragon_3.jpg) (http://www.activityvillage.co.uk/sock-puppet-dragon-craft)

This fantastic fully interactive and poseable Games WorkshopTM CitadelTM SmaugTM C New Line Cinema donut steel is perfect for games of The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Pad-OutsTM C New Line Cinema donut steel: burning lake towns, terrifying Tim from The OfficeNot TM C New Line Cinema feel free to steel, and generally making Professor Tolkien spin in his grave! Pawn your Granny's jewelry and SmaugTM C New Line Cinema donut steel will surely win all your battles for you!

Special Limited Edition Games WorkshopTM CitadelTM Interactive Poseable SmaugTM C New Line Cinema donut steel kit includes the following components:

One CitadelTM red sock
CitadelTM finefelt
CitadelTM googly eyes

All for the fantastic price of only £70 ($260 for Australia)!
(Kit requires assembly. Round-end safety scissors and pritt-stick not included.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 28, 2014, 06:31:15 PM
Quote from: Vermis on November 28, 2014, 04:48:27 PM
(Kit requires assembly. Round-end safety scissors and pritt-stick not included.)
You forgot a bit:

Available next week: Citadel Hobby Tools: Stickus AdhesivusTM Assembly Wand and Citadel Hobby Tools: Safety Tip Finefelt Carving Shears,  each only £10 ($60 for Australia)! Or buy both in a Limited Special Edition Set, containing both the Stickus AdhesivusTM Assembly Wand and Safety Tip Finefelt Carving Shears in a Collectors Edition cured HobbitTM scrote carry bag for only £25 ($178 for Australia)!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 28, 2014, 07:09:41 PM
Needs more skulls?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 28, 2014, 09:20:24 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Champions-of-Erebor-Web-Bundle

£118 for 14 Finecast Dwarf/Hobbit sized figures. Who is going to buy these?!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 28, 2014, 09:39:17 PM
Rich people after they've visited their crack dealers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 28, 2014, 09:50:24 PM
Well lets face it, for many years, thousands even, mankind has speculated on higher planes of existence (and lower).

Well here at last we have definitive proof, because whichever plane of existence they are on its not the same one as the rest of us.

And it looks like crashing even more with every new release.

14 little toy soldiers for 118 quid, tell you what if you give me 120, I will give you 2 back, bargain huh? its almost like a discount.

Don't forget the high quality black plastic bases are currently free of charge....

Still. Reckon some skulls might help?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on November 28, 2014, 10:30:28 PM
I really like those new dwarves.

On balance however, I really liked the plastic ones from the hobbit box and those have made it to the table a grand total of zero times. Unfortunately no one in my neck of the woods likes the game despite it being hands down the best game (ruleswise) that gdub does. The total price makes them seem ridiculous but for an individual character model it's a lot less than they've previously sold miniatures.

I think these will fall into the bracket of models that I'll never own. Too expensive to justify buying and will never likely make it to the second hand market at a reasonable price. Shame, but the current business model is not targeting fans or traditional wargamers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 28, 2014, 11:23:23 PM
And if you are here in New Zealand the price is $379 or roughly £190  lol or the heroes of mirkwood for $757
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 28, 2014, 11:55:15 PM
Quote from: beefcake on November 28, 2014, 11:23:23 PM
$757

Really?

Quote from: "The Castle", an Aussie comedy
Tell 'em he's dreaming
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 29, 2014, 03:05:01 AM
Yes, really.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 29, 2014, 04:17:24 AM
That's actually a pretty astonishing price for the number of figures.

Reminds me of the strangely high prices on collectable toy vinyl and ball joint dolls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 29, 2014, 04:24:04 AM
I just think, how much could I spend from another company for that cash (or imagine the first reaper bones kickstarter)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 29, 2014, 09:37:08 AM
Oh my. Limited edition gift box? I'm pretty sure it's just a box as well with your order inside it or "as much of your order as will fit inside" as they say. Spend $200 to get this!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on November 29, 2014, 09:42:52 AM
Quote from: Gibby on November 28, 2014, 09:20:24 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Champions-of-Erebor-Web-Bundle

£118 for 14 Finecast Dwarf/Hobbit sized figures. Who is going to buy these?!


Bullied parents and cheese beards! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on November 29, 2014, 11:52:51 AM
Quote from: Commander Vyper on November 29, 2014, 09:42:52 AM

Bullied parents and cheese beards! ;)

I don't think parents can afford that ... $800 is a big price point. I'd imagine the super rich that can afford it would probably prefer to buy a jet ski for Christmas and enjoy their private island rather than playing toy soldiers indoors with emo's... Aren't all the rich kids Scots? They were in my day...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 29, 2014, 03:40:02 PM
To me it's not a matter of affording it. Who in their right mind would consider that a reasonable price for 14 shitty resin figures? Even if I was a millionaire and spending £120 was like spending £5 is to me now, I'd feel like I was being robbed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on November 29, 2014, 05:24:55 PM
Now we're just getting silly. Even the most die hard GW apologists are gonna have hard time with this one. One guy I know who is a bit like that was pretty shocked and then when I told him about the Oz prices he was astounded. It almost feels like they're actively trying to drive away their most loyal customers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 29, 2014, 05:52:06 PM
On the plus side, I think they're pretty nice miniatures. If they were plastic or metal I'd be happy enough to part with £3-£4ea for them.

Also, if my uncle had tits, he'd be my aunt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 29, 2014, 06:04:44 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 29, 2014, 05:40:26 PM
I think the reason is very clear. They dont want to sell minis. The computer game stuff is where the money is these days.

That ie profit from virtual not physical product, and generate revenue by simply selling their IP accordingly.

I suspect part of the model pricing also relates to the usual amount of GW cynicism sell while movie is hot, and dump/abandon the game as quickly as possible as the hype around the movies dies down.

In essence their own IP is about the only thing left that they can gain revenue from in the future.  Selling physical product is getting to hard with their business model now - the prices are going beyond what even die-hard fans are willing to pay in large enough numbers

Also just read about base size changes for power-armoured models (ie bigger) and that Smaug will be going on sale possible at about $500 US dollar point

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/base-sizes-change-smaug-coming-games-workshop/

They are going with 32mm bases...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on November 29, 2014, 06:51:58 PM
Quote from: beefcake on November 28, 2014, 11:23:23 PM
And if you are here in New Zealand the price is $379 or roughly £190  lol or the heroes of mirkwood for $757


Bargains galore from GW.  lol They must have heard that Black Tree are having another sale and decided to compete.

About the base sizes for space marines, I have long been thinking that they would look nicer on 30mm bases. I have some of the new style chaos marines on 30mm display bases. Was even thinking of putting my renegade marines from the 80s on the EM4 style 30mm bases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Commander Vyper on November 29, 2014, 06:57:47 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 29, 2014, 12:05:47 PM
cheesebeards  lol thats a classic. I will use it forever.

;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 29, 2014, 08:50:38 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 29, 2014, 05:52:06 PM
Also, if my uncle hits tits, he'd be my aunt.

Liking tits doesn't make you a lesbian...

And regarding the 32mm base "upgrade", people will just rebase (instead of buying new miniatures*) or someone will design coasters (that have a 3mm lip) to sit the miniatures on.

*I'm sure this is what GW thinks will happen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 29, 2014, 10:31:19 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on November 29, 2014, 08:50:38 PM
Liking tits doesn't make you a lesbian...

A ridiculous spelling mistake on my part ... very poor work ... I'm so ashamed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 30, 2014, 06:10:15 AM
100-150 and depending on who you go with you could easily get 200. But just think of the paint you would have to buy for that. Better to buy from GW so you save money on paints. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 30, 2014, 10:37:32 AM
First reaction to the base change.  >:(
Then I realized I hadn't bought any GW model for the past 4-5 years or so.  :`
And this base change might WILL just mean we are going to see more third party 32 bases, I could use a few of those.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 30, 2014, 06:55:49 PM
Quote
Also just read about base size changes for power-armoured models (ie bigger) and that Smaug will be going on sale possible at about $500 US dollar point

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/base-sizes-change-smaug-coming-games-workshop/

They are going with 32mm bases...

To be honest the mention of Wild West Exodus in the comments makes me angrier. "We use 32mm bases 'cos that's what makes us speshul! We have tourneys an' evryfing!"

On 40K: I guess it'll make Apocalypse even less manoeuvrable.

And as long as they don't get Trish Carden to sculpt Smaug...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 30, 2014, 08:50:17 PM
Quote from: Vermis on November 30, 2014, 06:55:49 PM
To be honest the mention of Wild West Exodus in the comments makes me angrier. "We use 32mm bases 'cos that's what makes us speshul! We have tourneys an' evryfing!"

On 40K: I guess it'll make Apocalypse even less manoeuvrable.

And as long as they don't get Trish Carden to sculpt Smaug...

I really think that the end times and big 40k campaigns coming will cause the game to downscale to a more inq28 style game, so they can charge more for each figure because you need less.
(i already base my marines on 32mm cus i use them as true scale ones for blisterhammer)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 30, 2014, 09:09:45 PM
Aye, that's the '9th ed will be skirmish' rumour, right? Anyone heard anything more about that?

Personally, I'm interested to see just how it'll pan out, but since it's GW I have my pessimist hat on. I foresee something to take on the currently popular skirmish games (Infinity, Malifaux, Bushido et al) at their own game, but mishandled with GW's typical and misguided accountants-before-game-designers confidence. Like Mordheim meets Dreadfleet. Charging more for each figure (raising their skirmish-prices-for-mass-battles for an actual skirmish) would only be the start. A few dozen utterly random stages that invalidate any sneaky move you might plan and reduce the game to an exercise in "who gets closest to six on a die?", might show their face too.

But

We'll see.

(What's blisterhammer?)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 30, 2014, 09:50:06 PM
Quote from: Vermis on November 30, 2014, 09:09:45 PM
Aye, that's the '9th ed will be skirmish' rumour, right? Anyone heard anything more about that?

Personally, I'm interested to see just how it'll pan out, but since it's GW I have my pessimist hat on. I foresee something to take on the currently popular skirmish games (Infinity, Malifaux, Bushido et al) at their own game, but mishandled with GW's typical and misguided accountants-before-game-designers confidence. Like Mordheim meets Dreadfleet. Charging more for each figure (raising their skirmish-prices-for-mass-battles for an actual skirmish) would only be the start. A few dozen utterly random stages that invalidate any sneaky move you might plan and reduce the game to an exercise in "who gets closest to six on a die?", might show their face too.

But

We'll see.

(What's blisterhammer?)

Sort of like inq28, it's a way of playing with the core 40k rules as a skirmish system that me and y group play.named for the new plastic character blisters since the idea was that a couple of those and 2 or 3 troopers/spec weapons would be your force. i think i posted a really rough sketch out of the basic play sequence a while back but it has since developed into something actually playable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 01, 2014, 01:47:22 AM
sorry for the double post, but i'm here to post this £500 hunk of resin.
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/Smaug_zps89c96e62.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 01, 2014, 06:19:09 AM
£500, for the size it is meant to be that is probably accurate but I'd be interested in seeing it in scale to another mini. Oops just spotted bilbo. Definitely been scaled down but still large and menacing. I'll keep my £500. Can't wait to see how much it is for us southerners.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 01, 2014, 08:24:56 AM
Ouch. bit more than $500 US then.

 I will spend my xmas money somewhere else and leave the Smaug the Wyvern on the shop shelf.

Oh hang on, I was doing that anyway  :D

And that Bilbo looks integral to the base... is he 28mm scale or?

Need something we know the size of next to it...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: starkadder on December 01, 2014, 08:29:08 AM
If it's Bilbo, wouldn't it be 15mm?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on December 01, 2014, 11:48:02 AM
Quote from: Scurv on December 01, 2014, 10:03:27 AM
who is buying this crap? Seriously a grand for a dragon...

I hope no one buys this and they realise just how ridiculous they have become as a company. This will probably not happen but we can hope haha.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 01, 2014, 12:19:00 PM
There are already better dragon models available

They deserve a fail with that level of insanity pricing.

No doubt some die-hard fanatic cult of GW members will actually mortgage their souls/houses/children/kidneys accordingly but this is such a kick in their own armoured drop pods its ridiculous.

I cannot begin to imagine the calculations/sales prediction they came up with to justify the price.

Can only assume that they expect to sell so few that its up that high  to do the usual and attempt to pay for the costs, from tiny sales numbers.

Is it limited edition by the way? The mini, not the price that is..

Back to work and eye-ing up the Mantic KOW rules kickstarter thing on the side..

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 01, 2014, 12:33:48 PM
It doesn't offend my eyes, but then I think that's more down to Weta and John Howe and the fact I think this is a pretty kickass dragon design. It almost makes me want to go see the movies. Almost. This blurry pic of a model is already better than just about every dragon GW has ever put out, and miles better than most of them. (I mean, remember the first LotR dragon from GW? Brrr.)

The sculpt, though, does seem a bit stiff in places. And from what I can see someone's gone with the tired (exhausted) cliche of layering concrete shingles (http://www.marleyeternit.co.uk/Roofing/Concrete-Tiles.aspx) all up and down the top and bottom of it's neck. On a character design that doesn't have them. And specifically stated to have a soft underside... :?

And yeah. £500. Erm, no.

Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 01, 2014, 12:19:00 PM
There are already better dragon models available

To be fair: not many.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 01, 2014, 12:47:09 PM
Quote from: Vermis on December 01, 2014, 12:33:48 PM
To be fair: not many.

Very true, but one is still enough - and still cheaper.

Still, it is certainly better than any they did before, but as you say thats probably due to having someone else's designs to copy?

And it needs more legs..

And I don't see many skulls lying round...

-

Could not resist, had a quick bounce around GW website

Again.

Those prices are just  :o

Glad to see I am still immune to temptation and unsuitable for Cult GW membership indoctrination at this time.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 01, 2014, 01:43:14 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 01, 2014, 12:47:09 PM
Still, it is certainly better than any they did before, but as you say thats probably due to having someone else's designs to copy?

I have a sneaking feeling this is a Trish Carden sculpt, seeing as she is (or was) GW's go-to (reptile) monster sculptor, and the fact someone couldn't resist those roof tiles. If that's the case, see what can happen when things are steered away from her usual old dragon-rote?

Quote
And it needs more legs...

:D

To be honest I was never very convinced by the over-earnest never-the-twain-shall-meet classification of dragons vs. wyverns (vs. drakes, vs. wyrms, vs. whatever), especially when so many sculptors and artists lack the ability or the will to make either look convincing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on December 01, 2014, 01:50:21 PM
Quote from: Vermis on December 01, 2014, 01:43:14 PM
To be honest I was never very convinced by the over-earnest never-the-twain-shall-meet classification of dragons vs. wyverns (vs. drakes, vs. wyrms, vs. whatever), especially when so many sculptors and artists lack the ability or the will to make either look convincing.

Come on, Vermis. You do know that dragons have separate arms and wings...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90X5NJleYJQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90X5NJleYJQ)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 01, 2014, 02:49:46 PM
Apart from picking fun, not worried really about forelegs, twolegs, four legs, no legs or otherwise.

I think we pretty much all  agree overall its not a bad likeness to Smaugenbach - its just not worth handing over that amount of money.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 01, 2014, 02:57:53 PM
:)

Quote from: Ajsalium on December 01, 2014, 01:50:21 PM
Come on, Vermis. You do know that dragons have separate arms and wings...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90X5NJleYJQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90X5NJleYJQ)

 lol Somehow I knew that was going to be Trogdor before I clicked on it. I swear too many people use Strongbad's instructions, too. (The number of dragons with beefy arms coming out of their necks...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on December 02, 2014, 06:32:34 PM
The marines are now on 32mm bases so you'll have to either rebase your mareen army or buy a new one...

Well obviously you don't 'need' to but I wonder how many kids will be misled into telling mum and dad that they 'need' more models. Just in time for Christmas.

Wait that sounds overly cynical...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 02, 2014, 06:41:15 PM
Even though Smaug is going to be horrendously priced it will sell well. The officially licensed Smaug Miniature that looks like the one from the movies is going to draw in more than just the wargaming crowd even at that price. At half the price I am sure they would sell a tonne more (maybe not make more of a profit though, I don't know the margins). It's beyond me caring really though as even if I could get it at the cost of the resin to make it I wouldn't as I think that would still be too much for me. Plus I have nowhere to put it.

Just a thought. Can you imagine a LOTR collector that has very little knowledge of resin, paying for this, paying for a professional painjob, then sitting it above their fireplace with a roaring fire going? That wouldn't end well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 02, 2014, 08:32:43 PM
Quote from: beefcake on December 02, 2014, 06:41:15 PM
Even though Smaug is going to be horrendously priced it will sell well. The officially licensed Smaug Miniature that looks like the one from the movies is going to draw in more than just the wargaming crowd even at that price...

...Just a thought. Can you imagine a LOTR collector that has very little knowledge of resin, paying for this, paying for a professional painjob, then sitting it above their fireplace with a roaring fire going? That wouldn't end well.
These LotR/Hobbit prices make it pretty obvious that GW is deliberatly prioritizing the collector and LotR fan over the wargamer.  An uber-fan is going to be willing to slap down uber-bucks for a display piece or just something to add to the MISB boxes of collectibles in the closet.  The prices are just too high to sustain a large player base.

Of course there hasn't been a large player base for LoTR/Hobbit SBG for a few years now, so maybe this is just what GW has to do to make the license pay off.

Quote from: Mr Brown on December 02, 2014, 06:32:34 PM
The marines are now on 32mm bases so you'll have to either rebase your mareen army or buy a new one...

Well obviously you don't 'need' to but I wonder how many kids will be misled into telling mum and dad that they 'need' more models. Just in time for Christmas.

Even GW doesn't require rebasing or rebuying.  Their standard for tournaments (used by many other tourneys) has always been that you can use the current base size or the base the model was sold with.  The new BA tac squats then will have to be on 32mm bases, but the only folks that will be rebasing will be those who want continuity across the line or genuinely prefer the larger bases.

Of course if you want to rebase, there's only one company making 32mm plastic bases right now and you know who that is and how much more they cost than 25mm slottas from a company like EM4.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 02, 2014, 08:45:40 PM
Quote
paying for a professional painjob

Sadly an all too accurate description of working with F***cast :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on December 02, 2014, 08:47:59 PM
Note that my post was decidedly tongue in cheek regarding the 'need' to rebase. It's a current trend that gw have built on over the last year or so to introduce new or unusual base sizes.

As for your second point about the number of manufacturers making 32mm bases? There was definitely more than one prior to the announcement that gw would use them for the new BA models. After the announcement? I'm sure there are now loads of third parties willing to jump on the 32mm wagon!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 02, 2014, 10:16:33 PM
Quote from: zemjw on December 02, 2014, 08:45:40 PM
Sadly an all too accurate description of working with F***cast :'(

lol, didn't even notice the typo.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 03, 2014, 08:50:45 AM
There are two things that worry me about the new base sizes:

1. It implies that figure creep has now become so bad that they've had to increase the base size to stop it looking too silly
2. They're giving themselves more room for future scale creep

Perhaps the 54mm Inquisitor figures from years ago weren't a one off, but were in fact a few blisters from the future that had fallen through a wormhole onto a GW staffer's desk.

It all makes sense now o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 03, 2014, 10:25:56 AM
Quote from: zemjw on December 03, 2014, 08:50:45 AM
There are two things that worry me about the new base sizes:

1. It implies that figure creep has now become so bad that they've had to increase the base size to stop it looking too silly
2. They're giving themselves more room for future scale creep

Yep, that occurred to me too.  :?

I'd prefer slightly smaller and less chunky deformed heroic-scaled sculpting myself though. The plastic Imperial Guard Astra Militarum in particular are a complete mess (with those plastic Catachans being so ugly they nearly make my eyes bleed every time I look at them).

Ah well, I have what I want from GW for the most part now, and I care less and less about their releases with each new unveiling.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 03, 2014, 01:32:25 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 03, 2014, 10:25:56 AM
Yep, that occurred to me too.  :?

I'd prefer slightly smaller and less chunky deformed heroic-scaled sculpting myself though. The plastic Imperial Guard Astra Militarum in particular are a complete mess (with those plastic Catachans being so ugly they nearly make my eyes bleed every time I look at them).

Ah well, I have what I want from GW for the most part now, and I care less and less about their releases with each new unveiling.
Oddly, I think larger marines are a step in the right direction for GW.   The first of the "new" plastic IG kits was the Catachans (1999-2000) they were ridiculously big, being as big-or-bigger than space marines and clocking in around 28mm. It could have been an aberration, but GW stuck with figures nearly that big for the following IG lines (Cadians, Vostroyans, Astra, etc). 

Now that a guardsman is firmly established as 28-29mm to the eye, and GW is getting around to making new space marine models, it makes sense to make the Space Marines much bigger. If an average human male is 5'9"-6' tall and is 28mm to the eye, then a 7-8 foot space marine should be 32-35mm.  This could be the start of GW models getting back to a proper size relationship between Space Marines and the rest of the 40k minis line.

Of course it's no mistake that it's also going to be a chance to put out alot of new kits with even higher price points, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense from a scale perspective.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on December 03, 2014, 01:48:21 PM
Quote from: eilif on December 03, 2014, 01:32:25 PM
Oddly, I think larger marines are a step in the right direction for GW.   The first of the "new" plastic IG kits was the Catachans (1999-2000) they were ridiculously big, being as big-or-bigger than space marines and clocking in around 28mm. It could have been an aberration, but GW stuck with figures nearly that big for the following IG lines (Cadians, Vostroyans, Astra, etc). 

Now that a guardsman is firmly established as 28-29mm to the eye, and GW is getting around to making new space marine models, it makes sense to make the Space Marines much bigger. If an average human male is 5'9"-6' tall and is 28mm to the eye, then a 7-8 foot space marine should be 32-35mm.  This could be the start of GW models getting back to a proper size relationship between Space Marines and the rest of the 40k minis line.

Of course it's no mistake that it's also going to be a chance to put out alot of new kits with even higher price points, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense from a scale perspective.

I have to agree, as a scale representation goes, those who wanted their marines to be a proper size were required to convert terminators, with a lot of putty and patience to get a marine of a proper height. A few good tutorials on teh net for it was helpful but I feel that most people would not bother.
But I also agree that they will put stupidly high prices on them and that would be the annoying part of this whole conversation so I shall cut my ramblings short.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 03, 2014, 02:29:56 PM
Quote from: eilif on December 03, 2014, 01:32:25 PM
Oddly, I think larger marines are a step in the right direction for GW.   The first of the "new" plastic IG kits was the Catachans (1999-2000) they were ridiculously big, being as big-or-bigger than space marines and clocking in around 28mm. It could have been an aberration, but GW stuck with figures nearly that big for the following IG lines (Cadians, Vostroyans, Astra, etc). 

Now that a guardsman is firmly established as 28-29mm to the eye, and GW is getting around to making new space marine models, it makes sense to make the Space Marines much bigger. If an average human male is 5'9"-6' tall and is 28mm to the eye, then a 7-8 foot space marine should be 32-35mm.  This could be the start of GW models getting back to a proper size relationship between Space Marines and the rest of the 40k minis line.

Of course it's no mistake that it's also going to be a chance to put out alot of new kits with even higher price points, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense from a scale perspective.

Fair point, although I'd point out that there are lots more "recent" SM infantry kits than there are IG infantry kits, so it would make more sense to the revise the older kits first and use the opportunity to make the figures a little shorter and finer.

I doubt that will happen though.

And generally, I'm somewhat against the constant scale-creep too, but not because it invalidates older figures; because as models and bases keep getting bigger, fitting them onto the table in the quantities required by GW for their games gets harder. It also makes storing models harder if they keep getting bigger!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 03, 2014, 05:09:57 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 03, 2014, 02:29:56 PM
Fair point, although I'd point out that there are lots more "recent" SM infantry kits than there are IG infantry kits, so it would make more sense to the revise the older kits first and use the opportunity to make the figures a little shorter and finer.
Unfortunately, scale creep only goes in one direction and the Astra-whatever-IG figs that just came out make it pretty clear that 28mm to-the-eye and big-fists are here to stay.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 03, 2014, 02:29:56 PM
And generally, I'm somewhat against the constant scale-creep too, but not because it invalidates older figures; because as models and bases keep getting bigger, fitting them onto the table in the quantities required by GW for their games gets harder. It also makes storing models harder if they keep getting bigger!
This is very true.  I noticed this especially with my buddy's Terminator-heavy Dark Angel army.  The old metal and plastic models from my early gaming days were clearly too small, but the new ones are much, much bigger, are on 40mm bases and have enough dynamic posing and flyaway bits that they take 4-6 times as much storage space by volume.  It's kind of shocking how fast they fill up trays and storage bags.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on December 03, 2014, 05:27:54 PM
They 'old' metal Imperial Guard armies from the mid 90s seem about the right scale to put alongside the 'newer' Space Marines.

Or at least, they are a better fit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 03, 2014, 06:25:00 PM
Quote from: westwaller on December 03, 2014, 05:27:54 PM
They 'old' metal Imperial Guard armies from the mid 90s seem about the right scale to put alongside the 'newer' Space Marines.

Or at least, they are a better fit.

Yeah, they look pretty good scale wise.  Of course compare them to metal marines of the same era and you see that GW has been chasing it's tail regarding human-to-marine scale for a long time now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 03, 2014, 07:16:14 PM
I really liked the old metal Imperial Guard Valhallans. I collected a few (and even painted some) before that particular hobby cul-de-sac withered like so many.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 03, 2014, 08:38:29 PM
Some of the club are coming over to my place on Thursday to do an Apocalypse game using the Warpath 1.0 rules.  It won't be individually apocalyps'ed in that each player is only controlling around 2k in points plus a superheavy, but there will be 4 or 5 titans and superheavies on the 7x7 board.  I'll do a blog about it afterwards and post the rules we've invented for superheavies.

The point of all this is that in preparation for the game I'm quickly painting up a couple of Leman Russes that I've had in storage for a half a decade and it's made me realize that though I don't like the 40k rules anymore, I still have a definite soft spot for the models.  These ww1'esque Mark-Chibi tanks are just charming and fun to put together (even with the old-style track assemblies).  It's enjoyable digging through the bits bin and pulling out a few pieces to add a touch of individuality to each tank. It's kind of disappointing to realize that I'll likely never buy another new GW kit and really makes me want to tackle the last couple vehicles (two chimera and a Valk) and units (a couple of infantry squads and some characters) I've got sitting in boxes.

And then of course there's the 60 squats their 6 tanks and two artillery pieces I've got waiting...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 04, 2014, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: westwaller on December 03, 2014, 05:27:54 PM
They 'old' metal Imperial Guard armies from the mid 90s seem about the right scale to put alongside the 'newer' Space Marines.

Or at least, they are a better fit.

The old metal IG are also better proportioned than the plastics that followed. I definitely loved those Perry sculpts, and was always miffed that GW only made an inexplicable selection of special and heavy weapons for each regiment.

That said, and despite the cost, *if* I ever did IG, I'd start with the old metals. Failing that, I'd use another manufacturer's parts to make some "modern" RT-style IG (which I also loved, but are pretty badly proportioned in my eyes).

Another thing that all the new stuff has made me realise very starkly is that it's almost impossible (financially) to have more than one army with all of the options. It used to be common for people to have 2-3 reasonably complete armies, but nowadays I just see "counts-as" Space Marines everywhere. Which, despite all the new multi-whatever kits GW do now, ironically results in more people's armies looking blandly the same than ever before. Hell, even I'm guilty of having Dark Angels that look like... Well, Dark Angels painted to the Codex.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 04, 2014, 11:03:12 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 04, 2014, 09:37:52 AM
Another thing that all the new stuff has made me realise very starkly is that it's almost impossible (financially) to have more than one army with all of the options. It used to be common for people to have 2-3 reasonably complete armies, but nowadays I just see "counts-as" Space Marines everywhere. Which, despite all the new multi-whatever kits GW do now, ironically results in more people's armies looking blandly the same than ever before. Hell, even I'm guilty of having Dark Angels that look like... Well, Dark Angels painted to the Codex.  :?

I think that is a deliberate policy. Keeping customers locked into the framework of a specific army makes sales projections easier.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on December 04, 2014, 11:13:22 AM
How about this for a great deal  ;D
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Champions-of-Erebor-Web-Bundle
14 shitecast models for only £118
or 3 for £25 and thorin and bilbo for £18  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 04, 2014, 11:42:18 AM
If you look at some of the other bundles, such as the starter hobbit (limited edition box set of course), with paints etc.

Or the Island of blood bundle, they are actually just a tiny bit more (currently) expensive than buying the boxes of stuff separately...

its only pence at the moment but I am sure they can come up with a "one-click charge" for saving you from having to click the buy button more than once, and bump it up more..

Maybe they should do a similar product to

https://www.facebook.com/CardsAgainstHumanity

http://www.polygon.com/2014/12/1/7314775/cards-against-humanity-bullshit-box-of-poop-shit

It sold very well apparently..

If they can market failcast,  they can get in on this as well?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on December 04, 2014, 04:56:54 PM
Limited edition brown stuff?

ick.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 05, 2014, 07:44:12 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Smaug

Web limited to 200, all sold out.

Now despite the £295 price tag, i think we can all say this is a magnificent effort on gw's part.there is no mention of smaug being game worthy, seems so far t be purely a collectors piece. also made of solid resin not finecast.

I think this one is also justified in being limited edition , since there is no way they could keep up with the orders of these before christmas and maintain quality, tho i expect it will be in stores soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 05, 2014, 07:58:00 PM
And not a truly ridiculous price. Too much for me though.

Me thinking cynically: do you think GW released a rumoured price that was astronomical so that the actual price seemed affordable?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on December 06, 2014, 03:42:21 AM
Oh, it was only $550 AUD?! That's a bargain... Wait a mi Ute GW, that's still a weeks wage...  :?

Nice kit though.

Cheers
Matt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 06, 2014, 07:46:04 AM
Quote from: beefcake on December 05, 2014, 07:58:00 PM
Me thinking cynically: do you think GW released a rumoured price that was astronomical so that the actual price seemed affordable?

no not really. for once?

After all its nearly Christmas.

The original rumour/suggestions seemed to be based on a US Dollar price which is closer to UK 295/ US 500 - with some currency drift so i would suspect 500 pound was maybe Chinese whispers depending where it originally started, and a swap of the pound sign for a dollar one.

Its a nice enough dragon, but still - er - no, not that nice, which probably just means I am not the target customer...

limited in edition by the speed of the caster, so far dues, they are at least trying to keep the quality/quantity there, but suspect that if it is using the forgeworld type resin, its forgeworld casting it anyway.

Quote from: Constable Bertrand on December 06, 2014, 03:42:21 AM
Oh, it was only $550 AUD?! That's a bargain... Wait a mi Ute GW, that's still a weeks wage...  :?

Nice kit though.

Cheers
Matt.

Quote from: beefcake on December 05, 2014, 07:58:00 PM
And not a truly ridiculous price. Too much for me though.

Me thinking cynically: do you think GW released a rumoured price that was astronomical so that the actual price seemed affordable?

No matter how you word it, its a costly miniature in any currency.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on December 06, 2014, 09:08:09 AM
The model looks incredible. Just goes to show, they can still do big monsters that don't have to look like Fisher Price toys. Good show, GW. Shame about the price tag, but if I *really* wanted it, I would pay it and not feel too bad. I walked past a shop the other day that had a small oak coffee table for about that price, and I know which I'd prefer...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 06, 2014, 09:36:58 AM
Smaug - lovely.

Heck even the Shield of Baal box is basically a 60% off sale.  Almost a starter box (rules, scenarios, stats), but ithe choice of models make it more like an expansion box for... something... And limited edition too :(  So close GW, yet so far...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 06, 2014, 11:52:11 AM
Michael Perry did it, didn't he? No wonder it's a good model.

If I really, really wanted a once-in-a-lifetime massive Smaug model, I'd probably pay that. I can understand why there was more than enough interest to sell it out, but not for me.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 06, 2014, 12:00:47 PM
It's nice and all, but I prefer the Otherworld Red Dragon more...at less than half the price and in metal no less :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 06, 2014, 12:18:10 PM
Personally I would go for the Heresy dragon, labour or love plagued by production problems but one heck of a beast.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 06, 2014, 06:20:28 PM
Quote from: YPU on December 06, 2014, 12:18:10 PM
Personally I would go for the Heresy dragon, labour or love plagued by production problems but one heck of a beast.

Ditto. Although cost and waiting time aside, I almost feel bad for Andy buying one now.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 06, 2014, 06:59:33 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 06, 2014, 11:52:11 AM
Michael Perry did it, didn't he? No wonder it's a good model.

If I really, really wanted a once-in-a-lifetime massive Smaug model, I'd probably pay that. I can understand why there was more than enough interest to sell it out, but not for me.

If he did, it must have been some time ago or a special commission as the Perry Brothers left GW in June.  You're right about the quality of the Perry Brothers work though. That they were the sculptors was one of the reasons i got interested in the LoTR minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 06, 2014, 07:33:11 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 06, 2014, 06:20:28 PM
Ditto. Although cost and waiting time aside, I almost feel bad for Andy buying one now.  :?
Quite  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 06, 2014, 11:25:57 PM
Quote from: Gibby on December 06, 2014, 09:08:09 AM
The model looks incredible. Just goes to show, they can still do big monsters that don't have to look like Fisher Price toys. Good show, GW.

Good show Weta. ;) I think a large part of it was GW having to stick to someone else's (superior) design. Although...

Quote from: Cubs on December 06, 2014, 11:52:11 AM
Michael Perry did it, didn't he? No wonder it's a good model.

Aah... sculptor of the LotR cave drake (http://www.sodemons.com/rhdragons/14lotr/201010_lotr_cavedrake/index.htm), another (only other?) good GW dragon.

Y'know for someone who apparently prefers historicals more, he's really quite good at this fantasy monster lark.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 07, 2014, 01:09:41 AM
Quote from: eilif on December 06, 2014, 06:59:33 PM
If he did, it must have been some time ago or a special commission as the Perry Brothers left GW in June. 

I think it was the last model he did for them. Talk about going out on a high.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 07, 2014, 04:40:11 AM
Quote from: Cubs on December 07, 2014, 01:09:41 AM
I think it was the last model he did for them. Talk about going out on a high.

Indeed!
It only confirms what I've thought for a while, that Perry miniatures should at least dabble in fantasy miniatures.  If not entire units, maybe just a couple of fantasy accessory sprues with heads, shields and accessories to somewhat fantasy-up their plastic kits.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 07, 2014, 04:58:08 AM
Quote from: eilif on December 07, 2014, 04:40:11 AM
Indeed!
It only confirms what I've thought for a while, that Perry miniatures should at least dabble in fantasy miniatures.  If not entire units, maybe just a couple of fantasy accessory sprues with heads, shields and accessories to somewhat fantasy-up their plastic kits.



Fully agree with that.

I just live in hope. Seeing as history is finite they will eventually run out of historical stuff to sculpt in various different poses and be forced to move into fantasy  lol  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 07, 2014, 09:13:34 AM
Quote from: eilif on December 07, 2014, 04:40:11 AM
Indeed!
It only confirms what I've thought for a while, that Perry miniatures should at least dabble in fantasy miniatures.  If not entire units, maybe just a couple of fantasy accessory sprues with heads, shields and accessories to somewhat fantasy-up their plastic kits.


Id sign a petition for that.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 07, 2014, 02:58:31 PM
As would I!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 07, 2014, 03:26:54 PM
It's been said that the dragon was digitally sculpted- I wonder if that means that the Perrys may be switching to digital sculpting for their own plastics.

I haven't seen any new 3up previews for a while, now that I think about it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 07, 2014, 05:15:43 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on December 07, 2014, 03:26:54 PM
It's been said that the dragon was digitally sculpted- I wonder if that means that the Perrys may be switching to digital sculpting for their own plastics.

I haven't seen any new 3up previews for a while, now that I think about it.

It is the future so I don't see why not. A shame as there are too many older skills slowly disappearing  :?

I think they shot themselves in the foot a bit with this. A limit of say 500 would've worked so much better for them unless they will be doing another limited run in the future...  :-X

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 07, 2014, 05:37:13 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on December 07, 2014, 05:15:43 PM
It is the future so I don't see why not. A shame as there are too many older skills slowly disappearing  :?

I don't believe that sculpting by hand will ever really die out. Tools are easy to improvise and getting your hand on some putty should be in reach for many for years to come.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 07, 2014, 05:41:31 PM
I think it just offers alternate mediums. Some artists will find one easier to work with than the other, but the overall result is better miniatures on average. Which we are seeing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 09, 2014, 01:35:46 PM
So, I see that "Limited Edition" Space Hulk is up for sale again, again, again:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Hulk

Bunch of wankers.  :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on December 09, 2014, 02:04:18 PM
lol

GW, making more fools of themselves each day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 09, 2014, 02:21:25 PM
I've bought one! I shall call it my retirement nest egg.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on December 09, 2014, 03:02:52 PM
Well, it's a limited edition after all.

It's the December'14 limited edition. Not to be confused with the October'14 or November'14 limited editions. Neither with the limited edition that will be released in a couple months time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 09, 2014, 03:16:24 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 09, 2014, 01:35:46 PM
So, I see that "Limited Edition" Space Hulk is up for sale again, again, again:

They recently sent out an email stating that they had 'found more' in the warehouse or something about two months after it sold out. 

If I recall correctly they did the exact same thing upon the release four years ago.

(And I bought them both- I love Space Hulk).



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 09, 2014, 04:04:55 PM
With all the stuff they find down the back of the sofa, it's a wonder they haven't stumbled across a few copies of the original version of the game lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 09, 2014, 04:12:24 PM
Quote from: zemjw on December 09, 2014, 04:04:55 PM
With all the stuff they find down the back of the sofa, it's a wonder they haven't stumbled across a few copies of the original version of the game lol

 lol no doubt, a few pallets of Battlefleet Gothic would be cool :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on December 09, 2014, 06:28:31 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on December 09, 2014, 04:12:24 PM
lol no doubt, a few pallets of Battlefleet Gothic would be cool :)

I would immediately buy it. Looking for reasonably priced BG since years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 09, 2014, 06:32:05 PM
Quote from: Prof.Witchheimer on December 09, 2014, 06:28:31 PM
I would immediately buy it. Looking for reasonably priced BG since years.

Yep, that one was a really great game. In my opinion, easily their best release of that era for ease of play and balancing, and the ships were really nice and acceptably-priced. I just wished I hadn't sold my Chaos fleet some years ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 09, 2014, 07:18:05 PM
Prefer the original stealers and termies,and still not forgiven GW for canning dark future.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 09, 2014, 07:59:17 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on December 09, 2014, 07:18:05 PM
Prefer the original stealers and termies,and still not forgiven GW for canning dark future.

Dang, you sure know how to hold a grudge!
;-)

Thinking about Space Hulk reminds me that GW used to truely be a workshop making games.  I just bought the FFG card game "Chaos Mauraders" which is a reprint of a game that GW did in 1987. 40k and WHFB have been their prime focuses for well over 2 decades, but they used to have a variety of other games as well, even beyond such formerly headlining games as Necromunda, Mordheim and Epic (Pre "specialist games" days).

It's kind of a shame that in their catalog right now, GW really only has 4 games: 40k, WHFB, LOTR and Spacehulk (which barely counts as "in catalog")

That said, at least FFG is picking up the slack for 3-Game-Workshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 10, 2014, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: eilif on December 09, 2014, 07:59:17 PM

It's kind of a shame that in their catalog right now, GW really only has 4 games: 40k, WHFB, LOTR and Spacehulk (which barely counts as "in catalog")


... is LOTR not just a variant of WHFB? Also the next thing to be abandoned  ::)

Also space hulk just a constant limited edition product, so... as its not officially always available.. not a regular catalogue product?

So 2 product ranges,

Although, 40K and WHFB  are they not really just fantasy and Sci-Fi versions of the same kind of game - with variably knobs on depending on edition/revision/version....

So... just the one product range then?

That should get some debating going.
 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 10, 2014, 09:47:35 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 10, 2014, 09:14:22 AM
Although, 40K and WHFB  are they not really just fantasy and Sci-Fi versions of the same kind of game - with variably knobs on depending on edition/revision/version....

To be fair, they are quite different. Yes, you have the hit/wound/save rolls in both, but even armour saves and such are handled differently.

And LOTR is again quite different to both. I don't really like the LOTR rules, but lots of folks appreciate their simplicity (and indeed, the rules have been used successfully as a template for other games). For example, somebody on LAF suggested using the rules for Star Wars games, which I thought was a great idea.

So, to sum up:

- Could the rules for 40K/WHFB be better? Yes.
- Could the rules for 40K/WHFB be more fun? Yes.
- Are the rules for 40K/WHFB the same? No, not really.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 10, 2014, 10:37:05 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 10, 2014, 09:47:35 AM
- Could the rules for 40K/WHFB be better? Yes.
- Could the rules for 40K/WHFB be more fun? Yes.
- Are the rules for 40K/WHFB the same? No, not really.

Great clarification, so should considering the above and that they could both be better and more fun, do you think the next editions that must be pending imminent release, because the current rules editions are at least months old now... be any better/improved or just cost more?

Been years since I played I freely admit, and I certainly don't have recent rules books over than the pocket versions in some boxed sets - I should dig them out and browse maybe over a cuppa sometime.

How long do  people thinks the current Hobbit stuff has before its quietly dropped?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 10, 2014, 11:01:38 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 10, 2014, 10:37:05 AM
Great clarification, so should considering the above and that they could both be better and more fun, do you think the next editions that must be pending imminent release, because the current rules editions are at least months old now... be any better/improved or just cost more?

Been years since I played I freely admit, and I certainly don't have recent rules books over than the pocket versions in some boxed sets - I should dig them out and browse maybe over a cuppa sometime.

The core rules of some of the editions are actually pretty good, fast, and fun. I liked 2nd, 3rd and 4th editions of 40k, but once the Codexes and extras came out, they all quickly stopped being much fun.

A key "problem" is that people wanted more chrome to reflect the background, and seemed less bothered by streamlined mechanics. Mind you, part of this is due to the insistence on using D6, but still.

Another issue is that they seem surprisingly unable to forsee what rules they will need each edition to properly represent each army/faction, so you get loads and loads of subsequent bolt-ons that are codex-specific (and which massively bog the game down). Each edition then tries to add some of these rules back in (the introduction of the Universal Special Rules), but then these are never complete and compact enough, so each codex once again gets new rules. A good example of this are the Eldar, whose Shuriken guns in 6th/7th edition have a special rule that's like a special rule in the main book, but not.

Few of the rulesets scale very well either. If you want to play bigger/smaller games than a narrow accepted "standard", you quickly find that the rules fall apart and the game isn't much fun. The problem here is that GW want players to keep playing with bigger armies each time, and it's just not practical at 28/30mm scale for a variety of reasons (which are already well-documented in this thread).

It's a shame really, as all the ingredients are there for a really great game... But GW just doesn't seem to know how to do much more than present you with gristly sausages and burnt toast for the price of a champagne dinner.  :?

Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 10, 2014, 10:37:05 AM
How long do  people thinks the current Hobbit stuff has before its quietly dropped?

Hmm, depends.

Will anybody else pick up the license if GW drop it? If so, will GW care?

Once the Hobbit is done though, I doubt the current license will be especially attractive to GW or others.

And, certainly at the current prices/materials, I doubt most of GW's customers will give a flying toss if it's dropped or not. For instance, I liked the plastic eagles (which are generic anyway), but I'm totally unfussed by any of the Hobbit releases, and I've only ever played a game or two LOTR.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on December 10, 2014, 12:32:13 PM
Quote
How long do  people thinks the current Hobbit stuff has before its quietly dropped?

I've seen some dates on other LOTR forums that claim license end dates of Dec 2015 for the Hobbit and sometime in 2017 for the other LOTR ranges.  But I always thought they had three licenses - The Hobbit; the LOTR films; and the more generic Tolkein one they used to produce Scouring of the Shire, Shadow and Flame, and other non-flim related stuff.  So who knows.

JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 10, 2014, 02:07:12 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 10, 2014, 09:14:22 AM
... is LOTR not just a variant of WHFB? Also the next thing to be abandoned...

...Although, 40K and WHFB  are they not really just fantasy and Sci-Fi versions of the same kind of game - with variably knobs on depending on edition/revision/version....That should get some debating going.

LotR is a very different system. The main similarity is that they share a similar to-wound chart, but beyond that, they diverge quite a bit. Interestingly LotR is the base mechanics set that gave us "Legends of the Old West"

Regarding continued life of LotR, I've spent a bit of time on LotR forums recently and even the most ardent fans of the game all see LotR/Hobbit as being in it's last days/years. Looking at the GW website, the "War of the Ring" book for large battles is oop, and a couple of the big sourcebooks that are necessary for gaming in middle earth like "Free Peoples" are out of stock.  The general consensus seems to be that once the movies are gone, the game will linger on for a year or so and be let go when the license runs out. I would be surprised if LotR is still around in 2017, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's gone before then.

As for WHFB and WH40k being the same game, not much of a debate there, as most folks seem to know they're completely different games.   

That said, at the beginning of 40k with Rogue Trader and even somewhat into 2nd edition, you would have been right.  There was an incredible cross-compatibility between the two games.  IIRC, the realms of Chaos books were compatible between the two systems.   Since then however, they've really gone their separate ways.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 10, 2014, 02:26:49 PM
Nicely said, you guys. Didn't Kirby also mention LotR/Hobbit as a 'millstone' that would soon be gone, in the last annual report? (You know, the one that leads off "It's been a great year! If you count losing piles of money as 'great'!")

Quote from: eilif on December 10, 2014, 02:07:12 PM
Looking at the GW website, the "War of the Ring" book for large battles is oop

No huge loss, if I can say so. I've read it; that's why I'm going with Mayhem for big LotR battles. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 10, 2014, 03:44:31 PM
Space Marine, just out of bed and still in his dressing gown, supping his morning coffee from his favourite Skull-mug (TM):

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070101008_BASanguinaryPriest01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 10, 2014, 04:22:39 PM
Quote from: eilif on December 10, 2014, 02:07:12 PM
  That said, at the beginning of 40k with Rogue Trader and even somewhat into 2nd edition, you would have been right.  There was an incredible cross-compatibility between the two games.  IIRC, the realms of Chaos books were compatible between the two systems.   Since then however, they've really gone their separate ways.

Sadly, or gladly (bit of both) I must admit to being from that era, and way back then went cold turkey for many years regards this wonder of a hobby.

Its that kind of cross compatibility I remember, and have not put the modern rules sets together in detail to compare, but then I don't need to as there is plenty of informed people here who already know  :)

love the space marine and his skull-coffee...TM?

and its a frowny skull-mug to (TM).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 10, 2014, 04:52:14 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 10, 2014, 03:44:31 PM
Space Marine, just out of bed and still in his dressing gown, supping his morning coffee from his favourite Skull-mug (TM):

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070101008_BASanguinaryPriest01.jpg)

You can imagine the other Space Marines gossiping around the blood cooler in the common room when he stomps in ...

"Ooh, look what the cat dragged in."
"Yes ... somebody slept in their armour last night didn't they?"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on December 10, 2014, 05:00:35 PM
But I thought Space Marines were fused to their body armour?  Or has that background been changed?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 10, 2014, 05:07:59 PM
Quote from: Timbor on December 10, 2014, 05:00:35 PM
But I thought Space Marines were fused to their body armour?  Or has that background been changed?

I think the old fluff (could be wrong here) was that they had a layer fused to their skin to enable them to interact with their armor.  I think that has gone by the wayside, as I don't recall it being mentioned recently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 10, 2014, 05:14:11 PM
Having the narthecium (?) med-injector and a chainfist on the same wrist is just asking for trouble too.

"Just have a sip of coffee..." *bzzzz* "aargh my eye!!!" *pfft* "groovy, man..."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 10, 2014, 05:22:15 PM
Quote from: Streetline on December 10, 2014, 12:32:13 PM
I've seen some dates on other LOTR forums that claim license end dates of Dec 2015 for the Hobbit and sometime in 2017 for the other LOTR ranges.  But I always thought they had three licenses - The Hobbit; the LOTR films; and the more generic Tolkein one they used to produce Scouring of the Shire, Shadow and Flame, and other non-flim related stuff.  So who knows.

JDE

The LotR Licence New Line got is through The Saul Zaentz Company, which covers The Hobbit, the main text of LotR and the timeline in Appendix A.

So if IIRC, the Hobbit licence covers the book and movie imagery.  The LotR licence covers the movie imagery, the book, events from the Hobbit and "some other stuff".  No licence for anything from Unfinished Tales or the Silmarillion.  And of course they can make up anything they like.

The Fall of Arnor sourcebook is really thin compared to what's in the expanded history just because of the "some other stuff" limitation.

IIRC, GW claimed at the time they released A Shadow in the East that they told the Tolkien Estate (which holds the entire copyright) that they would call the second named Ringwraith somehting like "Fred the Nazgul" if they weren't allowed to use the name "Khamul the Easterling".  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 10, 2014, 05:24:11 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on December 10, 2014, 05:22:15 PM
IIRC, GW claimed at the time they released A Shadow in the East that they told the Tolkien Estate (which holds the entire copyright) that they would call the second named Ringwraith somehting like "Fred the Nazgul" if they weren't allowed to use the name "Khamul the Easterling".  lol

Things like that kind of put all those C+D letters to shame  :-X :? ::)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 10, 2014, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 10, 2014, 11:01:38 AM
And, certainly at the current prices/materials, I doubt most of GW's customers will give a flying toss if it's dropped or not. For instance, I liked the plastic eagles (which are generic anyway), but I'm totally unfussed by any of the Hobbit releases, and I've only ever played a game or two LOTR.

Me too, and I am/was a pretty ardent LotR player.  I've bought nothing from The Hobbit apart from the eagles.

Although it has to be said, halving the contents of the boxed sets and going to 5 armybooks a year before the Hobbit line was released pretty much killed LotR for me.  Have picked up a couple of boxes since, but not much  >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 10, 2014, 07:19:21 PM
I may have been a bit off in my estimation of dates.  A rumor posting over at one-ring suggests that the hobbit license runs out next year and the LotR license may last until 2018. 

I've got no intention to chase after the Hobbit stuff. The prices are beyond ridiculous, especially for a game that has a very limited life span.  I'm also seeing a change in style for some of the minis that I'm not fond of.  (Goblins, ugh…)

However, I'm slowly acquiring a few forces of LoTR minis on the second hand market. I like the style and look of the minis (yaay, Perry's!) and I hope to get my group to give it a go sometime next year. We'll probably just use the "Return of the King" rulebook from the late '00s which has force lists from all 3 films and seems to be a very complete ruleset.  That it's available for chump change ($4 shipped from Abe Books) helps too. I hope to end up with at least 4 copies of the rulebook so I can send them home with club members and they can learn the rules on their own.

Anyone with LotR experience know any reason why I shouldn't just use the RotK book if I'm not planning on playing it outside my gaming group?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 10, 2014, 08:11:45 PM
Can't help - as I only play WotR (and enjoy it - it is actually pretty good), along with a Fellowship I am slowly collecting from eBay to paint.

I'd love to get those eagles, but they're AU$85 here, while £30 (~AU$57!) in the UK. This just shows a total lack of caring.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on December 10, 2014, 08:54:56 PM
Quote from: eilif on December 10, 2014, 07:19:21 PM
Anyone with LotR experience know any reason why I shouldn't just use the RotK book if I'm not planning on playing it outside my gaming group?

The Rotk book doesn't have the siege rules section, and of course its missing any figure statline, that come after its release. Other than that its good to go.
There is not much change between the Rotk book and the One rule book. The Hobbit book made more changes and added a few things, mostly for the better.

If the license is ending soon, that could explain the ridiculous prices. Milk the cow till you can...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 10, 2014, 09:15:13 PM
Quote from: McMordain on December 10, 2014, 08:54:56 PM
The Rotk book doesn't have the siege rules section, and of course its missing any figure statline, that come after its release. Other than that its good to go.
There is not much change between the Rotk book and the One rule book. The Hobbit book made more changes and added a few things, mostly for the better.

If the license is ending soon, that could explain the ridiculous prices. Milk the cow till you can...


That's good to know, Thanks!

I don't think I'll have much use for Siege rules as our club prefers to play smaller games, but it's good to know what I'd be missing.

I think you're right about the license.  GW has a license that is ending soon and hasn't been nearly as popular as they would have hoped. They seem to have completely turned to the collector market and collector prices to make it their money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 10, 2014, 10:36:38 PM
McMordain has the biggy, the siege rules, but there were other rules changes as well.  The "Alone on the Battlefield" courage rule was dropped after this edition, as it was too much of a pain to remember to apply the rule!  Broadly, the changes after RotK were small though.

If there's one thing you may miss, it's a little diversity in some of the armies.  If you want to play "historical" forces, then Moria Goblins have a single warrior stat line and a captain, plus a Cave Troll for backup.  Oh, and a Balrog  :D.  No wolves, spiders or bats or drums, no goblin kings or shamen.  Easterlings have a captain and a warrior!

It's not necessarily a bad thing though  - power creep did happen with the game's stat lines, but it came after the RotK book.  Easy enough to make up, for example, armoured horsemen like Easterlings and Dol Amroth.  It's actually scary to remember how early in the game's development the films were!

If you do want later stat lines, drop me a PM - I have all the free summary sheets that GW made available for the supplements before the army books were published in 2012.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on December 11, 2014, 11:18:45 AM
Quote
Anyone with LotR experience know any reason why I shouldn't just use the RotK book if I'm not planning on playing it outside my gaming group?

The Hobbit book/booklet expands both what monsters and heroes can do, tweaks shooting while moving and through cover, and gives rules for each type of hand weapon.  All of which improves the game if you ask me, but to start with you won't miss it.

JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Zoggin-eck on December 11, 2014, 12:50:42 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 10, 2014, 09:14:22 AM
That should get some debating going.
 :D

Nope. Totally wrong on one (lotr) account, and a couple of decades out of date (40k WHFB 2nd ed. spinoff) on the other! ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 11, 2014, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: Zoggin-eck on December 11, 2014, 12:50:42 PM
Nope. Totally wrong on one (lotr) account, and a couple of decades out of date (40k WHFB 2nd ed. spinoff) on the other! ;D

I can dream - early dementia, etc etc. I have plenty of excuses I can make up and I will stick with them  ;D

Main thing is I have been educated by those in the know of the current and recent past, situation, rather than the distant past situation that I have/had more understanding of... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 14, 2014, 12:14:36 PM
The Hobbit Five Armies supplement is free on Black Library:

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/rules/HOBBIT_III_BoTFA_UK.pdf  (http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/Product/PDF/rules/HOBBIT_III_BoTFA_UK.pdf)

Honestly nothing special - two hero-heavy scenarios, bunch of stats.  Smaug is the highest-point model in the game by miles, basically an army by himself.

Couple of very powerful orcs, as you'd expect.  No Dain, dwarves of the Iron Hills or ram riders.

Definitely going out with a whimper.  Bit sad really.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 15, 2014, 08:42:06 AM
So as with the lotr, so with the hobbit part of the franchise, GW proceed with abandoment of the product line, effectively before the last movie actually hits the cinemas.

Shame as usual. I guess that means they will stop producing those mini ranges shortly, not that I could afford that much for a few hobbits - they will all end up OOP and mass available via e-bay.

I even got tempted to look at http://www.mithril.ie/Default.asp just to remind me of what they used to do, and still actually do.

Quote from: Scurv on December 12, 2014, 10:46:45 PM
on some up GW news sisters of sigmar and weapon allocation added to the mordheim comp game. Hold off from buying it yet but it does seem to be getting better all the time. Possessed up next and hopefully some sort of carry over system of damage and Xp.

Starting to sound more and more tempting, nice to see that maybe the developer are doing something good with it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 16, 2014, 02:32:19 PM
Well, this is for sale...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Giant-Chaos-daemon-with-over-800-mantic-zombies-and-undead-Bigger-than-a-titan-/331414659209?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item4d29da6089

WOW!!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 16, 2014, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on December 16, 2014, 02:32:19 PM
Well, this is for sale...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Giant-Chaos-daemon-with-over-800-mantic-zombies-and-undead-Bigger-than-a-titan-/331414659209?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item4d29da6089
WOW!!!!

That's an awful waste of zombies if you ask me.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 16, 2014, 04:04:34 PM
Quote from: Argonor on December 16, 2014, 02:42:07 PM
That's an awful waste of zombies if you ask me.  lol

I think the zombies are one of the coolest things about the model.  I really like the zombie limb-parts and the faces is pretty cool.  The sculpting of the body and the blood bottles just don't translate to being 28mm scale though.  At first glance it looked more like a human sized costume. 

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 16, 2014, 06:32:15 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on December 16, 2014, 02:32:19 PM
Well, this is for sale...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Giant-Chaos-daemon-with-over-800-mantic-zombies-and-undead-Bigger-than-a-titan-/331414659209?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item4d29da6089

WOW!!!!

HOLY F*CK!! I saw that thing earlier in the year when i went to my universities degree show! this was in the tech arts studio, and i instantly started picking out what ranges the miniatures had come from. It is very well made as far as i remember, but it's so strange seeing it up for sale as a miniature when it was presented as a screen prop.

(sadly i can't name the artists since i'm a sculpture student not tech arts, but i can ask around or look for his business card if anyone wants.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 16, 2014, 06:52:49 PM
What a great imaginative piece.

If you're peddling it as a 28mm scale model though, you're bound to look at the bottles and wonder who on earth made them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 16, 2014, 07:48:05 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 16, 2014, 06:56:28 PM
its a final year art piece as it says on the blurb.Honestly

I recently graduated from university having done a sculpting, holding and casting course. The piece on sale here is the culmination of my final year project.

personally I think he would have done better through a gallery pushing it as art and not bothering with the minis angle. but good on him for trying all sorts of ways to sell it.

I think he'll struggle either way, galleries in this country teems to lean towards the conceptual or the highly marketable .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 16, 2014, 08:02:55 PM
Now I have visions of the art critic Brian Sewell discussing the relative merits of deep-striking vs Land-Raider terminators.  Although he looks more of an Eldar player.

He should SO do a Youtube series on the aeesthtics of different armies... "The Tyranid, both nurturing womb and devouring maw - the ultimate expression of vagina dentata...".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 16, 2014, 08:10:15 PM
Quote from: eilif on December 16, 2014, 04:04:34 PM
I think the zombies are one of the coolest things about the model.  I really like the zombie limb-parts and the faces is pretty cool.  The sculpting of the body and the blood bottles just don't translate to being 28mm scale though.  At first glance it looked more like a human sized costume. 

Definitely, but imagine what you could do with 800 zeds on the table instead of glued to an oversized tree-trunk-statue-thingy.

I'm a gamer, and to me that piece is neither very pretty, nor very useful. Thus a waste of good wargaming material.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on December 16, 2014, 08:31:46 PM
Dude! It's bigger than an industrial vacumm, it's human sized!!! what table would it fit on??? what armies would take it on????... Goodness that's a big bertha.  o_o

Pretty sweet finish though as a sculpture. But not my cup of tea.

Cheers
Matt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 16, 2014, 08:46:13 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on December 16, 2014, 08:31:46 PM
Dude! It's bigger than an industrial vacumm, it's human sized!!! what table would it fit on??? what armies would take it on????... Goodness that's a big bertha.  o_o

Pretty sweet finish though as a sculpture. But not my cup of tea.

Cheers
Matt.

the vacums in that studio are rather small, since it's sort of a hodge podge studio put together from old stuff , the piece as far as I remember is about 60cm in height.
I imagine if he sent images to mantic they'd happily promote his work.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 16, 2014, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 16, 2014, 08:23:30 PM
this is so wonderfully hank hill.

No, it's not, just seen from a gaming perspective.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 16, 2014, 08:53:56 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 16, 2014, 08:51:21 PM
thats what makes it hank hill. The steadfast practical perspective.

think of all the propane that money could buy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 16, 2014, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 16, 2014, 08:51:21 PM
thats what makes it hank hill. The steadfast practical perspective.

OK, if you say so - can't say I have watched that show a whole lot.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 16, 2014, 10:30:25 PM
Quote from: Argonor
Ah like wargamin' and wargamin' accessories, Ah tell ya what.

TBH, I kinda agree with you, though. :D Nice job on gluing some mass-produced models together and painting them red, but... now what? Too big to game with and not pretty enough to display. (IMO >:D Not fussed about the facial crudity, not at that size) Personally I think that's a button in the back of the male brain that gets a lot of such models sold: some iffy design or questionable sculpting, but boy howdy is it big...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 16, 2014, 10:45:34 PM
Quote from: Vermis on December 16, 2014, 10:30:25 PM
TBH, I kinda agree with you, though. :D Nice job on gluing some mass-produced models together and painting them red, but... now what? Too big to game with and not pretty enough to display. (IMO >:D Not fussed about the facial crudity, not at that size) Personally I think that's a button in the back of the male brain that gets a lot of such models sold: some iffy design or questionable sculpting, but boy howdy is it big...

you should hang around a fine art sculpture studio , assemblage of mass produced objects is the go to for most, including the tutors.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 17, 2014, 08:49:02 AM
It's alright for something probably, I am sure someone will think of what it is eventually, other than it's primary function of getting through and passing his course, of course.

Thats a lot of work nevertheless.

But its not made of GW zombies ;D

And more importantly, its not OOP  :D

And more, more importantly, skull count looks a bit low.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 17, 2014, 09:12:22 AM
Quote from: nic-e on December 16, 2014, 08:46:13 PM
I imagine if he sent images to mantic they'd happily promote his work.
They featured it on facebook already.

The fact alone we pretty much filled a page with discussion on the thing means he has probably succeeded from an art point of view, if not the war gaming one. Getting anyone to notice your graduate work as an art student is pretty tough far as I know. So good on him. But I'm not interested in fielding it any time soon either.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 17, 2014, 05:40:59 PM
Quote from: nic-e on December 16, 2014, 10:45:34 PM
you should hang around a fine art sculpture studio , assemblage of mass produced objects is the go to for most, including the tutors.....


Yup. (http://static.flickr.com/43/105481916_ed5fb1774d_o.jpg)

Quote
The fact alone we pretty much filled a page with discussion on the thing means he has probably succeeded from an art point of view

I know they say that there's no such thing as bad publicity, but there's something tragic when getting noticed at all or having people sneer at your work is considered 'success'.

I'm off now to read the Young British Artists strip in Private Eye, grumble grumble kids lawn grumble.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 17, 2014, 05:45:56 PM
Quote from: Vermis on December 17, 2014, 05:40:59 PM
Yup. (http://static.flickr.com/43/105481916_ed5fb1774d_o.jpg)

I know they say that there's no such thing as bad publicity, but there's something tragic when getting noticed at all or having people sneer at your work is considered 'success'.

I'm off now to read the Young British Artists strip in Private Eye, grumble grumble kids lawn grumble.

thay little strip hurt me, because of how true it is. I tried stone carving the other day, im actually In a top arts uni where I can do that, and I was sneered at because it was a bit old hat and told to look into duchamp. (I know duchamp extensively, so this pissed me off alot.people so desperate to look intellectual that they miss out on all of art history pre 1920 and ignore the 30's to the 90's)

Vent over.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 17, 2014, 05:52:09 PM
Well I guess I'm too late to edit that out of my post. I didn't mean to snap about the matter, and I'm not even that riled up about the sculpture that started this discussion, and I'm sorry for all that; but the art establishment and it's doublespeak drives me up the wall sometimes.

(I took school art classes up to about AS level. They were getting more conceptual and I didn't feel I was getting the kind of representational training or instruction I wanted. Heck, I wasn't even interested in sculpture or modelling until I learned about the 'green stuff' hanging from the rack in GW.)

(I'd like to try stone carving some day, especially after visits to the National Portrait Gallery and the British Museum during April's Salute trip. I'd like to try wood carving, even. I need some books...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 17, 2014, 06:31:20 PM
Quote from: nic-e on December 17, 2014, 05:45:56 PM
people so desperate to look intellectual that they miss out on all of art history pre 1920 and ignore the 30's to the 90's)

There's a reason I feel absolutely no shame about being an art-school dropout...  :D
I went there out of a desire to become a craftsman, not a stand-up bullshitter.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 17, 2014, 07:36:23 PM
Art School Confidential is what I imagine art school to be.

I remember seeing an exhibition which appropriated some 1/72 Airfix years ago. Was very effective (as this sculpture is).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 17, 2014, 07:46:17 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on December 17, 2014, 07:36:23 PM
Art School Confidential is what I imagine art school to be.

I remember seeing an exhibition which appropriated some 1/72 Airfix years ago. Was very effective (as this sculpture is).

are you thinking of the chapman brothers hell series?

An example of reappropriated objects used skillfully is snow the work of kris kuksi, who's art looks like a john blanche fever dream.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 17, 2014, 07:55:16 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 17, 2014, 07:42:48 PM
there are trade related art schools here. Really neat idea. All the art minus the bulldust.

They should have had those around here roughly 15-20 years ago. Would have worked out a lot better for me...
Back in the day I had the misfortune to get lumped in a class with a majority of excrement buffers (aka: throw something together quickly, invent a story around it afterwards and get a decent grade for one night's effort  :-[ ).
I happen to be working with a recent art school graduate at my current job, seems the pendulum has swung the other way since, a lot more emphasis on skills and design theory. Oh to be a 20-something again!

Edit: Yeah, Kuksi is nice. Obsessively intricate work, good creepout factor, just up my alley. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 17, 2014, 08:10:22 PM
Lucky sod...
I landed smack in the middle of the  "You gotta have a Concept!" craze, right up those types alley. I do miss the wild kids and the obsessive creators from time to time though. They're nice folk.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 17, 2014, 08:50:13 PM
Quote from: Modhail on December 17, 2014, 08:10:22 PM
Lucky sod...
I landed smack in the middle of the  "You gotta have a Concept!" craze, right up those types alley. I do miss the wild kids and the obsessive creators from time to time though. They're nice folk.

that's still very much the fashion at ual. I honestly belive that is because conceptual work fits better into an academic system, whilst bypassing that tricky little thing called subjectivity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 17, 2014, 10:01:04 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on December 17, 2014, 07:36:23 PM
Art School Confidential is what I imagine art school to be.

As the shameful holder of a Studio Fine Arts degree, I can largely confirm this.

Academic art has essentially cut itself off from society and has become almost totally irrelevant outside of academia. If it weren't for a few magnificent rogues like Banksy, the average person wouldn't have any exposure to art other than popular art, commercial art, and cat photos, unless they really really sought it out voluntarily and put in the effort to do so.

I suspect that what happened is the fine arts crowd become a bit trapped by the hundred-year progression in towards ever greater abstraction, running from about the birth of photography to about the late 70's (the last phase that really had anything new to say was maybe the Op Art and Pop Art era, which both played with the medium and preconceptions about art itself).

I mean that was a revolutionary period, one where artists were freed to explore non-representational art is all sorts of wild new ways. That was an amazingly productive century! The problem is that once all the successive generations of rebellion and boundary-pushing were done, nothing was off limits, so the "next step" hasn't been obvious and I think as much as artists like to claim they're imaginative or creative, they're probably not THAT much more so than the average population (it's why we see "schools" of art, after all), so there's been some floundering around as fine artists in academic settings have struggled to figure out how to create new things which are relevant or which at least offer meaningful comment or thought.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen (seriously, thank god for Banksy... I'm not sure the average person would even remember fine art exists in today's world without him), but fine art is in rough shape right now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 17, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on December 17, 2014, 10:01:04 PM
As the shameful holder of a Studio Fine Arts degree, I can largely confirm this.

Academic art has essentially cut itself off from society and has become almost totally irrelevant outside of academia. If it weren't for a few magnificent rogues like Banksy, the average person wouldn't have any exposure to art other than popular art, commercial art, and cat photos, unless they really really sought it out voluntarily and put in the effort to do so.

I suspect that what happened is the fine arts crowd become a bit trapped by the hundred-year progression in towards ever greater abstraction, running from about the birth of photography to about the late 70's (the last phase that really had anything new to say was maybe the Op Art and Pop Art era, which both played with the medium and preconceptions about art itself).

I mean that was a revolutionary period, one where artists were freed to explore non-representational art is all sorts of wild new ways. That was an amazingly productive century! The problem is that once all the successive generations of rebellion and boundary-pushing were done, nothing was off limits, so the "next step" hasn't been obvious and I think as much as artists like to claim they're imaginative or creative, they're probably not THAT much more so than the average population (it's why we see "schools" of art, after all), so there's been some floundering around as fine artists in academic settings have struggled to figure out how to create new things which are relevant or which at least offer meaningful comment or thought.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen (seriously, thank god for Banksy... I'm not sure the average person would even remember fine art exists in today's world without him), but fine art is in rough shape right now.

this.

also, to bring it back, are we saying gw and the art world match up as insular and out of touch with everyone except a rich elite?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 18, 2014, 01:06:14 AM
Must bite tongue about Banksy. Must bite tongue about Banksy. Ouch.

Quote from: nic-e on December 17, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
also, to bring it back, are we saying gw and the art world match up as insular and out of touch with everyone except a rich elite?

I've just come from another forum where I had the same thought about GW and superhero comics. Just substitute 'rich elite' for 'decreasing pool of fanboys willing to shell out'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 18, 2014, 04:21:08 AM
Don't like Banksy, eh? Ah well, not for everyone.

Quote from: nic-e on December 17, 2014, 11:39:36 PM
this.

also, to bring it back, are we saying gw and the art world match up as insular and out of touch with everyone except a rich elite?

Ha!

Though, I'm not even sure the rich elite have much to do with the current fine art world. It's one thing to buy a Kandinsky and still call that edgy or current. It's quite another to buy or sponsor someone who's started in the past twenty-five years.

... something something space marines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 18, 2014, 06:47:37 AM
I have to agree on art having gone off on a tangent and losing much of it's relevance.
It seems the only things that keep art going at the scale it is now are government subsidies and the art markets who are only interested in value. Effectively works of art are large, elaborately crafted shares to them.  :-[
Which in itself is a sad social commentary of sorts, I guess...

...mumble, mumble, too much skulls.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 18, 2014, 08:28:58 AM
Quote from: Modhail on December 18, 2014, 06:47:37 AM
I have to agree on art having gone off on a tangent and losing much of it's relevance.
It seems the only things that keep art going at the scale it is now are government subsidies and the art markets who are only interested in value. Effectively works of art are large, elaborately crafted shares to them.  :-[
Which in itself is a sad social commentary of sorts, I guess...

...mumble, mumble, too much skulls.  ;)

Not being one of the elite, or an artiste of any real calibre (hated art in school, and the teachers, no encouragement and you learned nothing - draw a picture of these twigs for 2 hours and f-off until next time style of artistic education).

I cannot much comment on the state of art today - I appreciate what I perceive as good art, that which I like whether classical, ancient, modern etc, don't care - if I like it I like it. Even down to and especially exponents of our hobby in its little miniature worlds - some of the stuff produced here and elsewhere is art in and off its own self, and bloody good to.

But. as wonderful as that all is, and its nearly Christmas, this is the GW thread. Within that context, you cannot have to many skulls within its  ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 18, 2014, 10:35:44 AM
Back on track, theoretical question:

With LotR/Hobbit gone, what would like to see fill the void?

Me? I would love to see them try something historical or quasi-historical. I'm thinking superheroes/mecha, Victorian sci-fi or even riot/modern gang wars.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 18, 2014, 10:43:43 AM
28mm mad max  :D so long as the miniatures are clean looking,like the lotr ,some of gws are to busy and cluttered with details imho.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 18, 2014, 11:20:29 AM
MGM and Warner Brothers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Max_%28franchise%29#Merchandising
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 18, 2014, 11:34:43 AM
Mad Max ?

Didn't they do that and dump it already?

Dark Future anybody?

Ok was mainly car combat but.. - still was ok if I remember with sufficiently rose tinted glasses.

They could resurrect that - punt it out as say - limited edition...

At the same time the Max reboot comes out?

Still would be nice if they did turn back to a number of smaller games and genres but aren't we treading into the old land of specialist abandoned games that shall never be mentioned land within GW closet of burned and buried forever?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 18, 2014, 11:59:21 AM
Quote from: von Lucky on December 18, 2014, 10:35:44 AM
Back on track, theoretical question:

With LotR/Hobbit gone, what would like to see fill the void?

Me? I would love to see them try something historical or quasi-historical. I'm thinking superheroes/mecha, Victorian sci-fi or even riot/modern gang wars.

Don't think that's going to happen again, remember Warhammer Historical?

And, with their pricing policy. I don't really care if or what they'd try: I'm not likely to buy anything, anyway.

I think, based on GW's behaviour the last couple of decades, they'll focus on Warhammer/40K, inflating prices further, until sales are so diminished that the company cannot longer exist in its current form.

What happens next is mere speculation; new, smaller company could be formed, picking up the franchise(s), or the rights could be sold off to salvage as much value for the shareholders as possible.

I don't think the Warhammer brand(s) will disappear entirely, and even the Games Workshop brand namemay be valuable enough for someone wanting to use it, should the original company have to fold.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 18, 2014, 12:02:23 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 18, 2014, 11:34:43 AM
Mad Max ?

Didn't they do that and dump it already?

Dark Future anybody?

Ok was mainly car combat but.. - still was ok if I remember with sufficiently rose tinted glasses.

They could resurrect that - punt it out as say - limited edition...

At the same time the Max reboot comes out?

Still would be nice if they did turn back to a number of smaller games and genres but aren't we treading into the old land of specialist abandoned games that shall never be mentioned land within GW closet of burned and buried forever?


I do that's why I suggested it  :D
And yes I do hold a grudge for them dropping it >:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 18, 2014, 01:26:50 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on December 18, 2014, 12:02:23 PM
I do that's why I suggested it  :D
And yes I do hold a grudge for them dropping it >:D

Perfectly understandable grudge.

I was accused once of bearing a grudge for far too long as one should not bear such forever, I agreed, and pointed out I had no intention of bearing it forever, but just for as long as he lived.... :D

Far more important things to deal with in life than that person

A rumour! Neckrons..

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/


Skaven..

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/12/wfb-breaking-end-times-4-latest.html

no pew pew cars  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 18, 2014, 02:11:42 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 18, 2014, 10:52:05 AM
I wish they would do lots of little games that are full of new ideas. No more retreads but new ground. Why little games? because they might actually be affordable. Either that or just jump the dammed shark already.

They do, sort of; that's what all their recent computer games are. Re-treads of tabletop games.

For me though, in computer game form at least, they *feel* tired and they are  pretty expensive when:

1) You compare them to other computer games
2) They are so-so as games

I look at Space Hulk for example, and see that:

1) The graphics look like a throw-back to about twelve years ago
2) It's like the board game, but with less tension
3) You can only play one side (Marines)
4) It's not as modular/flexible as the boardgame
5) It's buggy, but not just in a Tyranid sense
6) There is no real account made for the medium it's presented in

Aside from being easier to play (set-up, lack of needing an opponent), what's the point? Add to that the fact that it still usually retails at full price of £20 despite the above and it's age, and I think that GW have missed yet another opportunity through treating their computer game customers like their TTG customers.

Staying with SH for a bit longer, they could have added a lot more in:

1) Player-customisable chapters, or a else selection from the 9 loyal First Founding Chapters at least
2) Branching campaign
3) Fixed pool of Marines that you draw from each mission - whey they die, they're gone for the rest of the game
4) Equipment, skills, and upgrades that reflect more than the basics of the 40k counterparts. This makes the Marines more unique, and also allows for a lot of nuance (for example, different patterns of Stormbolters, choosing the ammo available for the Cyclone before a mission, lasting wounds, scanners, targeters, refractor fields, bionics, relics, etc).
5) Different levels and terrain within the Hulk, perhaps some limited interactivity with the environs too
6) Variable damage and wounding (i.e., not just miss/kill)
7) Morale
8 ) Possible Genestealer biomorphs?
9) Control of the Genestealer side in PvP games
10) Expansions for Hybrids, Traitors, and possibly other environments like a hive city

This might make it more like X-Com in some ways, but then... That highlights my point a bit more, doesn't it?  :?


Quote from: Scurv on December 18, 2014, 10:52:05 AM
I think a mad max TT game IP might be worth a look for any gaming company. Good thinking. Who would own that IP the studio?

Dunno. Seems to me that there's already a fair few Post-Apoc games about, and I'm not sure that the MM licence would much beyond brand-name recognition. What's unique to MM really?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: driller on December 18, 2014, 02:15:55 PM
Today I have walked into my FLGS for some vallejo air paints. I remembered seeing the new Blood Angels Librarian on the net and thinking to myself that would make a great runepriest for my Wolf army (after some conversions, obviously.) Didn't know what it costs.

The guy who runs the store has put the figure on the desk before me (its to be sold from december 20th on, but he wasn't bothered.)

I saw the price.

We all had a hearty laugh - he was laughing even more than i did - and I bought the vallejo paints and left the store.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 18, 2014, 02:27:01 PM
No doubt its the only one he has in stock, and he won't need to get any more in to replace it.

Assume a normal "limited Edition" GW eye-watering price?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 18, 2014, 02:29:28 PM
(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070101007_BATerminatorLib01.jpg)

Looks pretty good to me, but... £18.00. Ouch.

At least it's not "Limited Edition".  ::)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 18, 2014, 02:39:57 PM
I was in my Warhammer store last week and did buy more than I intended (Christmas present to myself). However, the price of their current single plastic figures is astounding, so much so that £18 for the Blood Angels Librarian doesn't seem out of place.

I bought a chaos champion for £15 (yup, I know, don't go there o_o (*)). I also bought a box of 10 Gor for £15.50 and a box of 5 Chaos 40K cultists for £6 (I actually checked a couple of those boxes, as I assumed they must have been mislabelled). Their pricing is all over the place.

I had a look at the LOTR single figures. At least some of these are also the plastic multipart, but at £15 each, and no immediate use for it, I passed.

It looks like they've pretty much given up on F***cast, and it quite often seems to be referred to just as "resin" on the site these days. However, they've kept the pricing strategy, just now applying it to plastic :(


(*) I have a box of the old metal chaos chosen command figures that I'm going to paint up as a warband and wanted a boss for the group
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 18, 2014, 03:34:07 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 18, 2014, 02:29:28 PM
(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070101007_BATerminatorLib01.jpg)

Looks pretty good to me, but... £18.00. Ouch.

At least it's not "Limited Edition".  ::)



The price is limited edition - pretty much guaranteed to be £20:00 plus next year - probably January sales.

Get them now before next Christmas as then the limited edition price will probably be £25.00

i am almost tempted by the 10 Gor or the Cultists... Think its time for more pills and a visit to the doctor...

I am sure it will all be leveled out come the new year   :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 18, 2014, 03:41:32 PM
The Chaos Cultists are cheap because they are essentially the same as the monopose models from the last starter set.  Most 40k armies have one impluse buy push-fit infantry set at the $10usd price point. Of course even those have shrunk in value. 5 marines is now 3, etc meaning it's more cost effective to buy the multipart kit for building units.  It's still a comparatively affordable way to bulk out IG units though.  

Quote from: von Lucky on December 18, 2014, 10:35:44 AM
Back on track, theoretical question:

With LotR/Hobbit gone, what would like to see fill the void?


I kind of doubt GW will do anything to fill the void besides push more 40k and WHFB.  I'm sure we'll see more one-off board games, but I wouldn't count on anything sustainable.   GW doesn't seem to think that any game that doesn't require buying many dozens of models is worth sustaining for more than a single release.

As for Dark Future, I think folks do look at it through rose-colored glasses. (I've got the PDF somewhere around here) but a new version would be doable since it was essentially a board game anyway.  That said, with no real tie to the current GW gaming settings it's about as likely as squats coming back.

If GW did come out with a good skirmish game in the vein of Necro or Mordheim, I might purchase it, and even play it with my own figures, but I know for sure that I wouldn't be able to afford (m)any of the miniatures they would make for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 18, 2014, 03:53:11 PM
GW's attitude to LotR...

You or I would see a brilliant game that got tons of free advertising, and GW miniatures in newsagents.  I was doing my teacher training at the time, and you could tell "Battle Games in Middle-Earth" day because of the number of small boys (and a couple of girls) wandering the school clutching sprues of minis.

You or I would see that GW had some of its most successful and profitable years, years when at one point there were more plastic uruk-hai than there were real Londoners...

Bet you anything that all GW management remembers is "the LotR bubble".  Which was an entirely predictable event anyway.

So that and the failure of The Hobbit line and the Chapterhouse case have led them to see themselves as guardians of their own lines and IP.  Can't compete with your own lines - let Mantic and Wyrd and Privateer and Corvis Belli steal it instead.  Don't pick up movie licences - they never last.

Heck they'd probably have had a massive rejuvenation of the line if they'd sold 30k/Horus Heresy as plastics in their shops.  But no...

At this point, they're making mass-produced toys for kids... in limited editions for collectors.  And charging collectible prices for plastic.  They've killed the online secondary market, continue to put the screws on their outside retailers (can't use our photos????) and look like they're doing their best to discourage their two greatest assets - the player network and their shops (with one-man stores).

Someone on Dakka pointed out that Tom Kirby has it set up as a money making machine - for him.  Every time the company pays out a dividend, he scoops another six-figure jackpot.  I suspect there's your answer as to why it is the company it is today.

*sigh* rant over.  The short of it is, I don't think they know themselves.

Still like far too many of their models though - just picked up some of the Dark Vengeance Chaos figures and they're lovely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 18, 2014, 03:59:11 PM
I would really like a bog standard, turn-based computer wargame based on WHFB. I had a couple on the Playstation ages ago but they were narrative games where you had no choice over your army (you had to be a human mercenary with mostly Empire forces), were pretty much handed the units available and then had to fight pre-set battles (you did have the odd choice here or there, but it was all along a set pattern of development paths).

There was an old, old computer game I used to play called 'Ancient Battles' (I'm talking 25-odd years ago), where you could choose a historical army and build it up with the various troop selections, then go and fight battles against a computer opponent on a choice of battlefields (or you could build your own). I'd love to be able to do that with WHFB armies. The graphics could afford to be basic and the mechanics can't be tricky if they were doing it a generation back.

Perhaps they're worried that would kill off the miniature collecting side of the hobby if they have a computer game that copies it too closely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 18, 2014, 04:55:19 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on December 18, 2014, 03:53:11 PM
[...]they'd probably have had a massive rejuvenation of the line if they'd sold 30k/Horus Heresy as plastics in their shops.  But no...

I know, I just can't believe they haven't done this.  :?


Quote from: Momotaro on December 18, 2014, 03:53:11 PM
Someone on Dakka pointed out that Tom Kirby has it set up as a money making machine - for him.  Every time the company pays out a dividend, he scoops another six-figure jackpot.  I suspect there's your answer as to why it is the company it is today.

Yep. Probably also why Mr Kirby can't let go and just piss off quietly now that he's not CEO.


Quote from: Momotaro on December 18, 2014, 03:53:11 PM
Still like far too many of their models though - just picked up some of the Dark Vengeance Chaos figures and they're lovely.

I know just what you mean (their last two big-box plastics are so good, I just cannot comprehend why they don't do the same for the rest of their range). I do find that the increasingly bizarre design choices and rising prices help to keep me from buying any more.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 19, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
New financial director appointed (http://investor.games-workshop.com/2014/12/17/appointment-of-finance-director/)

Another internal move, so nothing changes :(

Apparently the only details they need to announce are her age and how many shares she and her husband hold. Some slightly strange and very specific regulatory requirements there ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 19, 2014, 04:44:46 PM
Quote from: zemjw on December 19, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
New financial director appointed (http://investor.games-workshop.com/2014/12/17/appointment-of-finance-director/)

Another internal move, so nothing changes :(

Apparently the only details they need to announce are her age and how many shares she and her husband hold. Some slightly strange and very specific regulatory requirements there ;D

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Modernbard/media/motivator1980347.jpg.html
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 19, 2014, 05:07:56 PM
I just wondered what happened to the previous Financial Director? Fired? Quit? "Found wanting" by Kommisar Kirby? Pulled a rodent on a post-buoyant vessel? Fled to the Bahamas? Rendered down into the base components for Finecast?  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 24, 2014, 06:33:58 AM
So are any bits sellers able to actually consistently stock anything anymore?

I've been trying to buy Ungor heads for the past three months and seen nothing, nada, zip, zilch anywhere online, not the usual bits sellers, not ebay, not on forums. And this is from the current, in-print plastic set, not anything OOP. Are the restrictions really so bad that bits sellers can't even get a handful of boxes here or there?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 24, 2014, 07:03:17 AM
I just looked on uk gw website and their currently unavailable?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on December 24, 2014, 11:28:31 AM
Same on GW Spain. Maybe they have gone out of production because of the End of Times thing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 24, 2014, 07:29:35 PM
Still seem to be available down here in NZ. That may be because the prices are even more ridiculous down here so they don't sell as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 24, 2014, 07:32:19 PM
Wierd. I just looked at a bunch of different countries and they all have different numbers of products available to each country. I assume that is bulk deals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 01, 2015, 06:32:24 AM
Was looking through ebay to see if I could find an old metal vermin lord for cheap. Came across this.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xverminlord&_nkw=verminlord&_sacat=0
Is this old news?
New vermin lord doesn't look too bad. Tail(s) looks terrible and would snap off in an instant. Other than that I think it looks quite nice, probably well oversized for my liking though.
More views may show how bad it is.
Now back to looking for the old version and perhaps a head swap for it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 01, 2015, 09:29:36 AM
Well that looks ******* rediculous  ::)

And it's a bit cheeky of the EBay seller to have a 'pre-sale' isn't it  ???

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 01, 2015, 04:28:23 PM
As much as I like the Skaven...

There are images around it seems everywhere except somewhere obvious on GW website

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?403854-Dan-s-Weekly-Poll-18-Which-Verminlord-are-you

Sigh.. Looks like another action figure sized model.. to fit in with the other end times big boys.

Nice model in  a way and options but.. er no thanks, it is silly - no doubt not as silly as the price will be but silly enough.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 01, 2015, 05:08:44 PM
Torn between it looking a bit kewl and looking overdone and overblown, as usual.

I've seen people say that GW is now concentrated on collectors rather than gamers, for better or worse. (usually worse; based on stuff like, er, Jervis Johnson saying so. Or at least saying that they sell more to collectors.) Looking at all the humongous overladen models coming out as part of this Nagash thing, looking more like action figures or display figurines than any kind of gaming mini, I can well believe it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 01, 2015, 05:45:32 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 01, 2015, 05:08:44 PM
Torn between it looking a bit kewl and looking overdone and overblown, as usual.

I've seen people say that GW is now concentrated on collectors rather than gamers, for better or worse. (usually worse; based on stuff like, er, Jervis Johnson saying so. Or at least saying that they sell more to collectors.) Looking at all the humongous overladen models coming out as part of this Nagash thing, looking more like action figures or display figurines than any kind of gaming mini, I can well believe it.

I'm a collector of GW mini's, but only because i can't afford to game with them given how much one needs to play a full game of 40k. I think really the collectors over gamers thing is the end result of a business model that asks you to buy lots without charging less.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 02, 2015, 08:11:22 PM
Vermin Lord (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Verminlords) is up for pre-order. Yours for the give away price of £55.

But, hey - you get enough parts to build one of give variants, so just think of how may bits you're getting for your bits box. It's a steal at twice the price, I tell you lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 02, 2015, 09:55:06 PM
So £55 for Raction man.

Army "centre piece" as GW put it in the blurb

Is that why the latest hobbit/dwarfs in a box is for £118 - they are meant to be centre pieces for your army?

Now I begin to understand all the latest releases - they are going for the army centre piece/collectors market.

Soon all the limited edition GW prices will reflect this for all their products! Everything will be a centre piece for our armies/skirmish/apocolypsosomthing bands.

No more left flank, right flank, front and rear nonsense, everything will be in the centre.

That aside, one of five possible combinations sure, but, but, there don't seem to be many skulz on it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on January 02, 2015, 10:18:11 PM
Quite a fan of the old Vermin Lord that seems to have been around since the early nineties. Don't like this new one much at all. I bet it's massive too. Something else that puts me off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 02, 2015, 10:59:59 PM
Well it fits in with the Nagash theme: Huge torso, tiny little head and arms, enormous weight-toppling headpiece.

And it still doesn't offend me as much as the knowledge that GW fanboys will squeal themselves hoarse over it. (I mean, hurrah for subjectivity and all that, but this is what's overhyping GW into it's grave)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 02, 2015, 11:22:26 PM
Quote from: Diakon on January 02, 2015, 10:18:11 PM
Quite a fan of the old Vermin Lord that seems to have been around since the early nineties. Don't like this new one much at all. I bet it's massive too. Something else that puts me off.

Yup Me to. nice, big enough but not too big, and still miles better than their later attempt, and the latest to.

Quote from: Vermis on January 02, 2015, 10:59:59 PM
Well it fits in with the Nagash theme: Huge torso, tiny little head and arms, enormous weight-toppling headpiece.

And it still doesn't offend me as much as the knowledge that GW fanboys will squeal themselves hoarse over it. (I mean, hurrah for subjectivity and all that, but this is what's overhyping GW into it's grave)


True.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 03, 2015, 12:05:03 AM
That new Verminlord is a big bag of shite. It looks like a little ratty goldilocks. Well, not little. This new action figure Warcrafty aesthetic they go for now has really nailed the coffin shut for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 03, 2015, 12:39:57 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 02, 2015, 11:22:26 PM
Yup Me to. nice, big enough but not too big, and still miles better than their later attempt, and the latest to.

Agreed. It's showing it's age a bit, IMO, but it's reasonably well-balanced, detailed, and proportioned. Not like the forgeworld one that looked like a wet sack of turnips with legs sticking out awkwardly, or this one that looks like the concept sketch was drawn by an overexcited crayon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 03, 2015, 03:44:05 AM
Not a fan of the overdone fur on the back of it. The hooves look weird as well. How many of those tails will break the first time used on a gaming board? (Multiply answer by two as its a double tail.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 03, 2015, 05:32:44 AM
I'm just sick of all the BIG McLARGE-HUGE stuff in general. Seems the only arm of GW coming out with interesting regular 28mm minis is Forge World and they're the one outfit that can be guaranteed to have even more screamingly insane prices than GW proper.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 03, 2015, 02:47:30 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on January 03, 2015, 05:32:44 AM
I'm just sick of all the BIG McLARGE-HUGE stuff in general.

They keep trying to supersize your order even though you didn't ask for it. ;D

I'll get me coat.

Quote
Seems the only arm of GW coming out with interesting regular 28mm minis is Forge World and they're the one outfit that can be guaranteed to have even more screamingly insane prices than GW proper.

Strangely, I've been seeing some GW fans - with novelty quickly wearing off - say that standard GW prices are rapidly approaching FW level, and the quality of the latter now makes it better value.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 03, 2015, 05:29:32 PM
Why can't Skaven just be small scuttling, sewer-dwellers again? When did someone decide they were better off being man-sized monsters towing enormous monuments around with them?

Waste of a great idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 03, 2015, 06:43:08 PM
Because someone(s) in charge at GW thinks Wagner is too subtle and restrained and Rococo is to austere and lacking in detail...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 03, 2015, 06:53:36 PM
I always liked them as the sneaky vile little bad guys.

Never really knowing when they would beat up the other army or just mess all their rolls and kick the living daylights out of themselves.

When they work they are brilliant, when it all hits the fan they are still brilliant - you end up laughing and having a great battle even though you loose.

This latest outing looks more like nagash shrunken head giant vs Raction man shrunken head giant, see which ones bits break off the quickest.

Guess there will shortly be shrunken head giant leader for Empire and others, maybe not elves as it looks like they are getting sunk beneath the waves..?

I get the feeling the GW WHB Apocalypso is more about reducing the model range to generic races - one of each, Men/Elves/Greenthings/Undead/Rats/Chaos...?

Bit boring really, and sad if that's what is going to be GW Fantasy offerings for 2015 - especially as the prices will of course be  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 03, 2015, 07:29:40 PM
Yeah, next for the empire it will be Sigmar reincarnated. Possibly just a Thrud style miniature.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 03, 2015, 07:44:28 PM
Quote from: Modhail on January 03, 2015, 06:43:08 PM
Because someone(s) in charge at GW thinks Wagner is too subtle and restrained and Rococo is to austere and lacking in detail...

 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 03, 2015, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 03, 2015, 05:29:32 PM
Why can't Skaven just be small scuttling, sewer-dwellers again? When did someone decide they were better off being man-sized monsters towing enormous monuments around with them?

Waste of a great idea.
what they said.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 03, 2015, 09:00:16 PM
TBH I actually like the skaven more than ever, to the point of owning two or three sourcebooks for them, including that one that's just copypasted jpegs of different clan colours. ;D I think Seb Perbett's redesign of the line has been great, for the most part. In particular the rat ogres from the 8th ed starter, despite my usual dislike of inflated, cartoony minis, have never been better (they're at least posed more reasonably than all the walk-like-an-egyptian ones before) and I think it's one of GW's biggest mistakes (among many) that they were never put on general release.

I agree with the 'monuments' quip, though. I don't know if the screaming bell and warp lightning cannon needed to be blown up to crazy proportions, and turned into dual kits with the big censer and the catapult, with the doomwheel and immense hell pit abomination on top of that. (I remember when the Necromunda zombie giant rat (http://s6.zetaboards.com/The_UnderEmpire/single/?p=321679&t=1158884) was considered a big piece of kit) I have a bunch of Seb Perbett plastics hoarded away for Mayhem and others (if I didn't have so many Nappies to paint for 2015, I might've made more of a start) and I'd like to add a screaming bell at least, but I think I'd look for the last metal one first.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 03, 2015, 09:32:53 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 03, 2015, 09:00:16 PM
I think Seb Perbett's redesign of the line has been great, for the most part. In particular the rat ogres from the 8th ed starter, despite my usual dislike of inflated, cartoony minis, have never been better (they're at least posed more reasonably than all the walk-like-an-egyptian ones before) and I think it's one of GW's biggest mistakes (among many) that they were never put on general release.

And there is the problem. As you say, what they did, previously, was/is nice,  an improvement and welcome addition with nice sculpts available, that made them look ratty and quite good.

But the increasing need they seem to have to upscale and make bigger. Its not improving any of the race/army options.

I don't actually mind the apocalypso stuff, distruction of the fantasy world etc to spice things up (everyone seems to be doing a bit of that anyway right now so hey why not GW join that party), but the releases of giant action man size stuff is in  no way adding to it in a truly constructive gaming way - they are not really suitable for tabletop game - too big and to much of a loss when bits come off.

Most likely I assume its to make them different so there are supposedly no other proxy models from other manufacturers to use as stand-ins... but.

I have a box of skaven joy I hope to get to this year, just waiting...

Quote from: Vermis on January 03, 2015, 09:00:16 PM
I'd like to add a screaming bell at least, but I think I'd look for the last metal one first.

That is exactly the only thing I need to add to it as well. Mainly because the newer one is ok, I like its dynamism and animation yes, but still would look to the older metal in preference, it just seems to fit better.

No rush, plenty of lead left in the mountain yet.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 04, 2015, 06:43:50 PM
What attracted me to the Skaven was the Brett Ewins 'Kaleb Daark' comic strip where they first made their appearance. They appeared to 'swarm' over their enemies to bring them down. I understand it would probably be prohibitively awkward to recreate this with models and base sizes, but something along the lines of the other WH swarms would have been a good idea, perhaps with half a dozen small Skaven models per 40x40 base.


(http://dreadaxe.pagesperso-orange.fr/Scans_BD_GW/The%20Quest%20of%20Kaleb%20Daark%2017.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pijlie on January 04, 2015, 06:46:03 PM
"Dreadaxe thirst for you"? Seriously?  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 04, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
Well ... it's a comic and I was a kid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on January 04, 2015, 07:02:38 PM
Where was that published, Cubs? That's how the skaven should be, a swarm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 04, 2015, 07:03:05 PM
That comic is so very, very GW.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 04, 2015, 07:21:09 PM
Great. Now I can never again read a comic book without hearing every single character as Brian Blessed in my mind....  :( ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 04, 2015, 07:21:19 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on January 04, 2015, 07:02:38 PM
Where was that published, Cubs? That's how the skaven should be, a swarm.

I think it was the Citadel Chronicle (?) sometime in the 80's - it coincided with the launch of the Skaven as a new Warhammer race. If you Google 'Kaleb Daark' you'll find plenty of images.

This page probably shows them even better - little halfling sized creatures swarming over man-sized victims.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CGG9co6-UPo/TelMYCgYxqI/AAAAAAAAAPE/F32SHyFrbKc/s1600/d92c865df93a69fb.jpeg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on January 04, 2015, 08:05:44 PM
Thanksthanks Cubs  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on January 04, 2015, 11:00:31 PM
Spent 17 pounds on a halfling yesterday, and it is not even new. Even 2nd hand GW demands high prices (for certain models)  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 05, 2015, 12:48:10 AM
By coinkidink I've been reading Orlygg's blog post on that subject.

http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/miniature-prices-dont-believe-hype.html?m=1

Fine sentiments, but I wonder if any of the, ah - scalpers? - will pay attention. I've got a few old citadel halflings squirreled away myself, bought off ebay some time ago, but I didn't pay much more than £2 for any one. I'd buy more but the ebay prices have gone, as the man says, higher than what I'm willing to pay.

By the way, how do you pronounce it? Skay-ven or Skah-ven (as in 'scavenger')?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on January 05, 2015, 12:57:58 AM
Yes, it is an excellent Blog post. I wanted the model however for Mordheim right now, and this was the cheapest I could find, some have it for sale in the higher 20's. For a lead fishing weight with a face, sheesh. Luckily the rest of my needs are long term and a lot less priority :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 05, 2015, 01:14:13 AM
Nice read that blogpost.
I pronounce it skay ven. Don't know the correct pronunciation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 05, 2015, 06:24:17 AM
The interpretation is a bit primitive.

Variance is the real villain. If you have lots of items being listed, then things tend to sort themselves out and the price will come to one that's broadly agreed on. But if something is old enough that it's not listed very often, then there's much less information for both buyers and sellers use and prices will fluctuate more dramatically. When you get big swings like that, then the sellers with less experience will focus on the high prices and the buyers with less experience will focus on low ones.

For example, lets take two sales. Let's say in the past month, OOP "Vampire Lord Michael Bublé" sold ten times, for $7, $5, $16, $30, $3, $10, $22, $11, $9, and $13, with unsold auctions at $40, $45, and $65. Most people would see that and rightly judge that a fair price for the figure is about $13 or so. That's a simpler example - in stats you need to control for the extreme outliers, of course this is much easier to do the larger your sample size is (I say simple, because if you control for extremes in this case and discount the $3 and the $30, you still get a price of about $12).

But if you have only two auctions, one for $30 and another for $3, and an unsold auction for $45 then it's harder to know what's right. Was the $3 just a bad seller who didn't know the value of their goods? Was the $30 a really desperate or wealthy fool? Maybe the fellow charging $45 doesn't look so silly now.

And if something is rare enough that it's not listed for sale very often, the reality is, a section of the public will drive prices up. Even if not everyone agrees with that price, if the transactions taking place are dominated by the deep pocketed, then that becomes the going rate by default.

The solution to keep prices down and reduce variance is to get more sales going, which will happen naturally if prices rise to the point where players sitting on old lead start listing their junk in the hopes of cashing in. The real problem there is that many older collectors are not big fans of ebay listings, so sales are very fragmented, which increases the appearance of variance because even though in the aggregate there's a fair number of sales going on, people can't find them or see them all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 05, 2015, 08:40:55 AM
If , and on the rare occasions I have actually sold via ebay, I have tended to check as many existing past and present auctions I could find to better understand the pricing level for the item.

That way I can ascertain, as well as possible the price level to look at and the demand. If there is no value indicated I won't bother at all.

However, the main issue I have now is that entire post, and all others today I have read (thankfully not out  loud) in the charming tones of Brian Blessed.

Which really does change the effect of it all.

Quote from: Gunbird on January 04, 2015, 11:00:31 PM
Spent 17 pounds on a halfling yesterday, and it is not even new. Even 2nd hand GW demands high prices (for certain models)  lol

I assume thats intended as a centre piece for your army?

Still, wow thats a lot for a hobbit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on January 05, 2015, 08:58:00 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 05, 2015, 08:40:55 AM

I assume thats intended as a centre piece for your army?


Hardly, she's there for comedy value of my Human warband in Mordheim.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 05, 2015, 09:33:08 AM
Thats alright then, Its not to much for a good laugh.

Although I have the picture of a her talking like Brian Blessed at the moment, and not sure if that's extra funny or just a bit too odd.  ;D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on January 05, 2015, 09:46:29 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 05, 2015, 09:33:08 AM
Thats alright then, Its not to much for a good laugh.

Although I have the picture of a her talking like Brian Blessed at the moment, and not sure if that's extra funny or just a bit too odd.  ;D


[/quote
Especially when a member of the band, named Gordon and thought to be dead, turns out to be alive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 05, 2015, 11:24:16 AM
Quote
Most people would see that and rightly judge that a fair price for the figure is about $13 or so.

But that was part of the point: most people wouldn't see that. The cheaper stuff might hang around a bit if it's being bid on, but for both auctions and buy it now (the latter of which seems to be the more common method, last I saw) once it's sold, it's orf. I'd hazard a guess that most ebay browsers don't bother to ferret them out again after that.

In stats you might need to control for the extreme outliers, but when you go looking for old lead on ebay, extreme outliers might be most of what you see.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 05, 2015, 06:55:10 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 05, 2015, 11:24:16 AM
But that was part of the point: most people wouldn't see that. The cheaper stuff might hang around a bit if it's being bid on, but for both auctions and buy it now (the latter of which seems to be the more common method, last I saw) once it's sold, it's orf. I'd hazard a guess that most ebay browsers don't bother to ferret them out again after that.

In stats you might need to control for the extreme outliers, but when you go looking for old lead on ebay, extreme outliers might be most of what you see.

Right, which is exactly what I meant by lead auctions being high-variance.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 05, 2015, 10:22:39 PM
New boneripper .
http://m.imgur.com/dogTJU0

(Sorry for the link, not my pic)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 06, 2015, 02:09:48 AM
Too big but I quite like the look of that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 06, 2015, 07:35:10 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 06, 2015, 12:45:20 AM
no wonder he needs that little helper. The urinal presents unique problems.

Indeed, boneripper is in fact not well equipped to rip any bone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 06, 2015, 08:35:25 AM
Even with his little helper on board, he does not look to be very handy.

appreciate the symmetry of giving him four arms, but no claws/hands at all?

Maybe there are other options that might include the odd body part with fingers available, or perhaps he is very dexterous with his feet/foot?

Still a another pin head ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on January 06, 2015, 10:59:29 AM
Rat Ogres have always been somewhat pin headed....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 06, 2015, 11:20:40 AM
Quote from: Streetline on January 06, 2015, 10:59:29 AM
Rat Ogres have always been somewhat pin headed....

Good Point.

But they have not been upscaled to this size yet have they? Do you think they will be - so that you get one a box and it costs say 55GBP?

or three for 170? (+5 for providing the button to buy three at once)

Is the size/scale increase primarily so that he matches the size of the other army centre piece characters being released?

"My overpriced centre piece is bigger than yours"

"Thats Ok my measuring stick is a baseball bat"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on January 06, 2015, 12:28:31 PM
No - I think the existing plastics will stay and this special character is purely to replace the older Thanquol/Boneripper with a new "End of Times" size plastic model.  Not to say they won't release something else bigger and pin headed for the Skaven of course.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on January 08, 2015, 11:56:30 AM
Latest rumours....

In 9th edition, there will only be six factions.

And GW is going to follow the Warmahordes model in every posible way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 08, 2015, 12:37:01 PM
Quote from: Ajsalium on January 08, 2015, 11:56:30 AM
And GW is going to follow the Warmahordes model in every posible way.
Not sure how exactly I would define the warmahordes model... More CCG like with ever expanding combos taking over the "best list" spot?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on January 08, 2015, 12:50:31 PM
Probably. lol

But mostly I was referring to this:
· The rulebook will come with the lists for the six factions.
· Said lists only include basic units (maybe just 3 or 4 per faction).
· There will be "campaigns" that will provide new units for every faction.
· Those units will only be sold temporally (until the next "campaign").
· Round bases, for skirmish action.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 08, 2015, 12:57:18 PM
Meh, sounds like a huge leap, I remain sceptical.

Mind, I might actually like to see a WHFB skirmish game, but less miniatures implies even higher prices for less models per box....  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 08, 2015, 01:46:45 PM
Quote from: YPU on January 08, 2015, 12:57:18 PM
Meh, sounds like a huge leap, I remain sceptical.

Mind, I might actually like to see a WHFB skirmish game, but less miniatures implies even higher prices for less models per box....  :?


Agree with the skepticism but you have hit on the similarity there with GW's standard approach - less content, more cost.

So it does fit.

The idea of limited edition, already exists and recent releases for 40K have had a couple boxed sets of limited edition stuff. Granted some as re-releases.. Twice.. but that aside, no reason not to do it to WHFB.

I would agree with skepticism of them systematically copying any particular competitors systems,

 I can see them cherry picking in effect the bits - from any sources - including competing systems, to then be applied to the shrinking pool of customers they have to bleed moneys from.

Nothing new there.

The idea of skirmish game is nice, but again its GW and cynically they did skirmish in the Warhammer world before, and very well with the likes of Mordheim.

Thats going or gone digital along with a lot of other "specialist" older games they no longer support..

Sigh, if any of its true I suspect its:

1. we are going to change WHFB completely. Just Because
2. rulebooks and miniatures will cost more for less content. Because thats what we do
3  You will still pay for/buy it.
4. We want more money/blood from the few of you still buying are stuff.
 
The size creep for supersized centre piece models suggest as well that it won't be that long before that centre piece is the only piece in your Army Skirmish Warband
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 08, 2015, 06:02:50 PM
I have been following these rumours, I guess time will tell.  I just wonder how well they will do if they clone warmachine.  I mean, folks are leaving GW for the likes of Privateer Press... I assume those loyal to GW like the mass battle aspect of the game.  If that is completely reworked, then they could lose that loyalty.  My understanding is the appeal of PP is, among other things, well written and balanced rules (compared to GW I guess) and a very supportive relationship with the community events.  Both have traditionally been lacking in GW of late.

Regardless, I think it may be time to try and pick up a few boxes of GW stuff I have admired but not wanted to buy outright.  These rumours suggest they may be doing away with large parts of the range, so... hmmmm.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on January 08, 2015, 06:08:08 PM
Quote from: Timbor on January 08, 2015, 06:02:50 PM
Regardless, I think it may be time to try and pick up a few boxes of GW stuff I have admired but not wanted to buy outright.  These rumours suggest they may be doing away with large parts of the range, so... hmmmm.  :?
Yes, but which are going? I guess the current fluff gives clues, but I'm not following it. Did someone mention Bretonnia disappears or something?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 08, 2015, 06:18:13 PM
I have no idea what disappears.  I just wanted to get some of the recent wood elves.  That and some warhammer forge figures.  I bet those will go eventually too.  FW has put up the rules for all their monsters online for free:  http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/fwDownloads
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 08, 2015, 06:21:19 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on January 08, 2015, 06:08:08 PM
Did someone mention Bretonnia disappears or something?

Why not, they took Kislev out into the field and shot it in the face. It's a pity the human factions were allowed to wither and fade, because the likes of the (non-Chaos) Norse, Kislev, Nippon and other minor nations, were wonderfully rich options for the human player, way back when. It was probably the popularity of these quasi-historical armies that led to the development of Warhammer Fantasy (which they also killed off of course).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 08, 2015, 07:48:54 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 08, 2015, 01:46:45 PM
1. we are going to change WHFB completely. Just Because

Well, from what I hear, because WFB sales have tanked and knocked the game off the top five of some list or other I don't care about. Also to strip out the generic fantasy bits that they can't copyright, maybe. But... yeah. It's not much better. But it's not like they could do something like, I dunno, write better versions of their current rules or not charge goofy money for plastic models.

Quote from: Timbor on January 08, 2015, 06:02:50 PM
I mean, folks are leaving GW for the likes of Privateer Press... I assume those loyal to GW like the mass battle aspect of the game.

Nah. I've seen a few people rave about how great an alternative Kings of War is, in the face of these rumours. They either get no response or get a quick, snarky rebuttal. Some about the state of KoW models (can't blame them, TBH), but mostly about how it's 'not Warhammer'. I mean, the only way to have a good fantasy game with character is to have eleventeen special rules on every unit or character, and what sane person doesn't want to muck about with casualty removals when you've got about 200 minis on the table? Weirdos.

As far as I can tell, loyalty to WFB boils down to two things: ubiquity, meaning you can easily get a game, especially a pick-up game in a GW store (which is getting trickier with falling popularity of the game and store problems too) and 'support' of the game, which seems to mean 'release of new kits' as opposed to rules fixes and whatnot. So that apparently means what Alan Merrett said in the Chapterhouse court case is right: the GW hobby is buying GW products.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 08, 2015, 07:51:52 PM
Some of my local gaming folks are picking up KoW - I am supposed to play a game this weekend.  It does seem a bit of 'warhammer-lite', but as you mentioned, it is more streamlined and just the rules for playing an actual game without having five special rules per unit.

As someone with a full time job and family and rapidly fading hobby time, this is nothing but a good thing!  When I was 15 or something I probably would have thought differently... but then again, I probably spend more in 3 months of hobby purchases than I did in all my teenage years... go figure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 08, 2015, 08:10:49 PM
Ninja edit above. :)

Quote from: Timbor on January 08, 2015, 07:51:52 PM
Some of my local gaming folks are picking up KoW - I am supposed to play a game this weekend.  It does seem a bit of 'warhammer-lite', but as you mentioned, it is more streamlined and just the rules for playing an actual game without having five special rules per unit.

As someone with a full time job and family and rapidly fading hobby time, this is nothing but a good thing!

:D

I don't mind the break-point unit blocks in KoW too much, which is what I think is causing most of the cognitive dissonance in WFB fans; but there are a couple of little hiccups in the rules that mean I've also been mentioning Mayhem. I think it has a little more 'crunch' in a few little ways, and a little more tactical nous in the action points, polydice and command mechanics. But, if the WFB fans don't pay much attention to the KoW fans, imagine how much I get listened to on that game. ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 09, 2015, 08:58:23 AM
I agree with the reference  Vermis,

Quote from: Vermis on January 08, 2015, 07:48:54 PM
So that apparently means what Alan Merrett said in the Chapterhouse court case is right: the GW hobby is buying GW products.

That is their idea of the hobby we enjoy, There's the main difference, they will do, try, change, copy and whatever else they need to, to move their product and take as much from their customers as possible in each and every way.

 Oddly many of the manufacturers other than the aforementioned, with some exceptions, also primarily do what they do partially for profit, and er, fun - they enjoy what they do.

Don't get me wrong I am sure GW do enjoy what they do, which is gouge money out of a primarily small ranged target customer base, that is an age group rather than anything else.

Customer loyalty is not relevant. As they expect us to grow out of toy soldiers... ::)

Yeah like thats going to happen  ;D

I Only just grew back into them.

KoW has issues, but then all rulesets do, will see if their second edition resolves some of them.

And There are even  some threads here for battles using older rules, including Fantasy Warriors, they are great by the way. So we don't even need new rules to have fun with our soldiers.

Sadly though there is that big thing about getting enough people together to play something else, if anything.

But things change, I will sit back relax, and see what nonsense comes next  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 09, 2015, 10:58:30 AM
Been saying since forever that both Wahammer lines need a range of games that allow you to start playing with the first box of troops you buy and let you build up from there.

As someone who has WFB models, but no investment in the game, this could be very interesting...  A smaller game, tight ruleset (GW can make them...), regular campaign updates for all armies.  But...

First, I have no faith in their pricing.  The reason I'm not a regular GW customer is that I won't pay £15 for an inch-tall plastic army man.  Offering me a different £15 army man won't change my mind  ;)  And really, it's the core of GW's problems, isn't it?  Over the years they've priced themselves into a "luxury" corner.

And second, the rest of the rumours are insane, to an old fool like me anyway.  Limited edition runs, dumping an entire line of old models, screwing about with basing...  ;D  This game could be great - as part of a coherent strategy to retain older customers and pull in new ones.  I just don't think they have the sense to think that way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 09, 2015, 12:32:51 PM
So sad that there is always such huge potential for something from them and its almost always wasted..

"Right what way is the wind blowing now? quick, piss everything into it and put the prices up"

The IP the back catalogue of miniatures, the "specialist games" and more, there is so much and its always wasted time and again, just so long as the accounts balance looks ok ish.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 09, 2015, 04:49:30 PM
Not sure if anybody else was aware, but apparently there is a warhammer quest PC game out now?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 09, 2015, 05:11:46 PM
Yes, but I have banned myself any new computer games until me birthday at the soonest :D

It can wait.

Suspect a few more will crop up in the next couple of months quietly, to add to the growing list.

I for one have to much reality to pay for first this year ;D

And toy soldiers...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 09, 2015, 06:12:10 PM
Forgive me fathers for I have sinned, I blame the Malibu and cokes ,but last night I bought off gw.
I now have hobbit Orc trackers,wyches razor wing flock and a nurgle chaos sorcerer being sent to me.
Plan is the Orc trackers get some blunderbuss type guns and the the scorcher gets a pistol for a scavvy gang and the wyches become eschers or a vampire/goff  gang and the razorwings will be used as part of a rat skin type gang .lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 09, 2015, 07:52:49 PM
These fantasy rumours are actually the sort of thing that would make me want to start fantasy . right now it feels like a game I could never afford, and seems to be played mainly by people who already have an army from years ago.

Round bases, smaller units and battleforces that are big enough to actually play a game with.

I was never a fan of big infantry block games,but I know kings of war fills that gap in the market well and alot of old fantasy players have switched to it as a more balanced rule set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 09, 2015, 07:56:34 PM
Quote from: YPU on January 09, 2015, 04:49:30 PM
Not sure if anybody else was aware, but apparently there is a warhammer quest PC game out now?
Is that the same game that was on iOS? Top down view, pay loads through the nose for extra characters and scenarios?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 09, 2015, 09:22:42 PM
Quote from: beefcake on January 09, 2015, 07:56:34 PM
Is that the same game that was on iOS? Top down view, pay loads through the nose for extra characters and scenarios?
Yes it is. Pay loads trough the nose option included. They sure took the games worksop classic into the modern age there.  lol :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 09, 2015, 09:30:06 PM
Figures. I bought it for the iPad. Gets very repetitive, very quickly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 10, 2015, 09:52:10 AM
The one review I watched mentioned that with all the dice rolls going on behind the screen and it being single player you loose most of what is interesting about these somewhat simpler table tops in the first place. No whooping when the other guy rolls a 1 and such.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on January 10, 2015, 11:03:16 AM
A little bit more of the posible future of Warhammer...

It will take place 200 years after the current End of Times. And the world has exploded. Literally, it seems. Say goodbye to the old map that has been the one proper and true trademark of Warhammer. Apparently, each faction will live on their own planetoid, floating in the warp. Or something. o_o
One faction will be the elves. Chaos another. Humans other; these are described as the chaos warriors minus the spikez and skullz, so heavily armoured. Undead will likely be other faction. The other two may be greenskins (containing ogres) and dwarves.
It has been said, with good reason, that it looks like Warhammer is being made more like 40K fluff wise. All elves being a single race... humans being strong armoured warriors...

And regarding old GW fans, apparently they don't give a damn. It's a conscious business decision to place their efforts on attracting new players, hence dropping all previous armies, miniatures and background.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 10, 2015, 11:45:05 AM
Quote from: Ajsalium on January 10, 2015, 11:03:16 AM
Say goodbye to the old map that has been the one proper and true trademark of Warhammer. Apparently, each faction will live on their own planetoid, floating in the warp. Or something. o_o

That sounds bloody stupid and shit. Fantasy worlds for me depend on there being... a world and a map and some lore to get into.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 10, 2015, 12:11:30 PM
Warhammer apocalypse ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 10, 2015, 12:31:54 PM
So nothing new then, throw out all the old, including fans/customers.

Aim for the young teen affluent cash rich, skull poor kids...

not sure they will find enough of those on any planet including this real one.

What a pile of steaming cack.

GW on their usual form following their normal rules and doing exactly as thought, one of each race burn the old miniatures and racial devides and F anyone that don't agree/buy into it.

utter waste of time.

I will keep me money/continue to spend elsewhere and use any other, including old GW rules editions I like

Although I reserve the option to actually buy something from somewhere that is GW if its cool or fits with what I am doing and I can afford it... ;D

Other than that anyone thing this is last gasp or?

How do their latest financials look, have they been released yet?

But yeah warhammer skirmish apocalypso, no doubt there will be a 40k version of Nagash soon, maybe as a Necron big nob? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 10, 2015, 01:06:15 PM
Sounds about right.
And I blame you lot with your scaremongering for my impulse online purchases  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 10, 2015, 01:17:02 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on January 10, 2015, 01:06:15 PM
Sounds about right.
And I blame you lot with your scaremongering for my impulse online purchases  lol

We might just have found the reason for all the over the top GW rumours.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 10, 2015, 01:18:19 PM
Financials are on the 14th January I've read, so next Wednesday.

The way it's being talked about, THIS IS the last gasp for Fantasy - presumably the alternative to a complete revamp of the game + all new models is that the line just gets cancelled.

What a waste.

Pictures of the new Rat Ogres, sorry "Stormfiends" are surfacing... gatling gun arms, heavily armoured, one appears to have warpstone nipples on its armour  :o  Ludicrous range of special abilities.  If that's the future...  Steamhammer anyone?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on January 10, 2015, 01:42:54 PM
Steamhammer? Surely you mean Warmachine?

Oh! Wait! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 10, 2015, 02:03:11 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on January 10, 2015, 01:06:15 PM
Sounds about right.
And I blame you lot with your scaremongering for my impulse online purchases  lol

Secretly we all work for GW sales dept.

We don't get paid anything we just do it out of love for everything they do for us. Its our other  way of giving back to them for all they do  :-*

The other way is whilst we work we let them hold our wallets.. o_o

Quote from: Momotaro on January 10, 2015, 01:18:19 PM


Pictures of the new Rat Ogres, sorry "Stormfiends" are surfacing... gatling gun arms, heavily armoured, one appears to have warpstone nipples on its armour  :o  Ludicrous range of special abilities.  If that's the future...  Steamhammer anyone?


If you cut it in  half there is a 40k space marine inside controlling it just like the big centurion whatever they are ones they do for 40k now

pointy nipples might earn them a cease and desist from Madonna though..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 10, 2015, 02:13:25 PM
You scoundrels lol
If they drop most the range of Warhammer ,will eBay uk crash as everyone buys up the old stock and lists it for heavily inflated prices that gw could only dream off?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 10, 2015, 02:57:37 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on January 10, 2015, 02:13:25 PM
You scoundrels lol
If they drop most the range of Warhammer ,will eBay uk crash as everyone buys up the old stock and lists it for heavily inflated prices that gw could only dream off?

Nah, to nich a market but I bet GW will open Warhammer! tm. Ebay store  and sell all their own stock as OOP and increase the prices more often...

Every six months or so they will find another cargo container full of OOP under the sofa to keep things going..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 10, 2015, 06:21:11 PM
At the end of last year, I made some modest purchases of things I definitely wanted but were rumoured to be going.  There are another three sets I'd like so I'll squeeze them into the next four months.  Just in case  ;)

GW is the one company that's contemptuous enough of their customers to announce the end of WFB with a couple of weeks' notice.

I'll save some cash for the inevitable torrent of armies on eBay.

As Gandalf would say: "Buy you fools!  BUY!"  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 10, 2015, 08:04:01 PM
You got that right Scurv. I find it strange to believe they would get rid of the warhammer line especially after renaming some stores warhammer and not 40k or some such thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 10, 2015, 08:43:44 PM
I am Shocked they have not tried doing something like the Disney infinity thing one of my sons has for his wii u,where you get different characters and place them on this plastic base he has hooked up to the console. o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 10, 2015, 09:11:44 PM
A couple pages of nonsense is good for the soul.

But end game wise, I think your right Scurv, its looking more and more like they are going to ditch physical product for virtual and milk the digital media via IP to pay someone's pension/dividends in the near future.

But the new shooty models for skaven, meh. big cntre piece minis, meh.

And as for the likely little warhammer games with in game purchases. digital expansions etc, oh yeah, they will milk that cow. Even if its an Auroch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on January 10, 2015, 09:38:17 PM
The rumours I've posted are lifted from a spanish site, Cargad! (link (http://www.cargad.com/index.php/2015/01/07/warhammer-mas-rumores-sobre-el-fin-de-warhammer/) to article, in spanish). The same site posted the rumours about the End of Times campaign a few months ago, and they were mostly right.

And talking about nonsenses... (from that same site): lol
(http://www.cargad.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/nuevas-ratas-ogro-acorazadas.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 10, 2015, 10:02:56 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 10, 2015, 07:44:07 PM
are you guys serious or just making this stuff up. I just read the last couple of pages and it sounds the most insane nonsense I have ever did hear.

 lol

Quote from: Ajsalium on January 10, 2015, 09:38:17 PM
The rumours I've posted are lifted from a spanish site, Cargad! (link (http://www.cargad.com/index.php/2015/01/07/warhammer-mas-rumores-sobre-el-fin-de-warhammer/) to article, in spanish). The same site posted the rumours about the End of Times campaign a few months ago, and they were mostly right.

Ditto Dakka.

First time I've seen those stormfiends. Aside from all the steampunk stuff tacked onto them, I've been waiting for updated rat ogres to appear after being wowed by the Island of Blood versions. In terms of design and sculpting quality, I think these have taken a step backwards, really.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 10, 2015, 10:22:17 PM
Jesus Christ, what the hell.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on January 10, 2015, 10:34:49 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on January 10, 2015, 10:22:17 PM
Jesus Christ, what the hell.

Exactly what I'm thinking.

I think it may be more then Methodist these guys are on. Hell drugs worked well for certain people's creativity, the Beatles,  sex pistols and Jim hendrix, but not for these guys, these are proof at what drugs really do to someone's mind haha.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 10, 2015, 10:38:02 PM
At times like this, I'm reminded that much of the Nazi high command was wired on cocaine, speed, and various other things for pretty much all of WWII.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on January 10, 2015, 10:38:52 PM
Thats it, I'm sticking to Oldhammer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 10, 2015, 10:42:55 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on January 10, 2015, 10:34:49 PM
Exactly what I'm thinking.

I think it may be more then Methodist these guys are on. Hell drugs worked well for certain people's creativity, the Beatles,  sex pistols and Jim hendrix, but not for these guys, these are proof at what drugs really do to someone's mind haha.

What. Mind.

Drugs might have been a good idea, at least then the apocalypso might have been a bit more psychedelic.

But at least the Skaven are now turning into ultramarines. or is it the other way around?

If they all end up on different planets in the aftermath of the apocalypso how do the races then get at each other to warhammer?

Or is that why they are getting bigger? So they can reach?

Oh bad thought, maybe they will all get drop-pods for dropping in on each other?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 10, 2015, 10:59:13 PM
First post on this Warseer thread by Darnok has all the info:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404065-Warhammer-And-Now-For-Something-Completely-Different (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?404065-Warhammer-And-Now-For-Something-Completely-Different)

Quote from: Vermis on January 10, 2015, 10:02:56 PM
Ditto Dakka.

First time I've seen those stormfiends. Aside from all the steampunk stuff tacked onto them, I've been waiting for updated rat ogres to appear after being wowed by the Island of Blood versions. In terms of design and sculpting quality, I think these have taken a step backwards, really.

Know what you mean - I love the Island of Blood Skaven, and the Dark Vengeance models are amazing too.  And they're clip-together 2-3 part models!

But I feel this is the direction the new Warhammer will be taking, concentrating on what GW and only GW can do.  No "generic" fantasy models, more extreme designs and BIGGER models.

Which is what confuses me.  Business startups are told to find their niche and charge "bespoke" prices rather than compete with the big companies that can always undercut them.  But GW ARE the big company in the field!  Why are they retreating from ANY competition?  Why are they copying the model of one of their smaller competitors?

Most of all, why are they not actively growing their own market?  If anything, X-wing should be a better model - you could be playing your first game of Warhammer within 20 minutes of opening the starter (clip-together models, different-coloured plastics, streamlined rules) and on your way to more purchases and years ahead of collecting, painting and bigger and bigger battles.

I still maintain they learned the wrong lessons from LotR.

You can start one of their competitor's games with £50-70, and the same again will give you a decent force (or two).  GW wants £95 for a UNIT of nine Skaven riflemen, and their web bundles range from £150-500, with many being around £250.

*sigh*

If this is in addition to 8th rather than replacing it, it may help.  A lot depends on... prices...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 10, 2015, 11:07:07 PM
Quote from: Gunbird on January 10, 2015, 10:38:52 PM
Thats it, I'm sticking to Oldhammer.

Or 8th Edition, as we currently call it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 10, 2015, 11:07:53 PM
Does the Stormfiend on the left really have a gatling gun coming out of his chest, or is that just some awexxome armour platez or something?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 10, 2015, 11:18:39 PM
You know, once upon a time I really, really enjoyed the (main) GW games. First I started liking the rules less and less as they changed them, then I started liking the models less and less, the only thing that kept me interested and looking longingly at GW's offerings over the years was their rich and expansive setting (even if most of it was appropriated and mashed up from elsewhere) and now they seem poised to dump that in the shredder. The very IP GW themselves claim is their biggest asset?!  :o
It seems to me, that GW have finally found an orbital bombardment cannon and are in the process of aiming it squarely at their feet...

Scariest thing to me is, if this turns out to be less than a total catastrophe for WFB, 40K will await the same treatment.
These developments (and their potential consequences/backlash) do shed a new light on Kirby's choice to depart the company now... Something with rodents and seagoing vessels.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on January 11, 2015, 12:37:39 AM
Quote from: Timbor on January 10, 2015, 11:07:53 PM
Does the Stormfiend on the left really have a gatling gun coming out of his chest, or is that just some awexxome armour platez or something?

He has.

I want to cry.

Quick, I'll have a look at my 90's Dark elves army on the shelf, taking dust.

I don't feel better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 11, 2015, 02:27:48 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 10, 2015, 10:42:55 PM
If they all end up on different planets in the aftermath of the apocalypso how do the races then get at each other to warhammer?

Apparently the bubbles of reality collide with eachother, spilling their occupants together, and that's how a fight is born. And afterwards... pfff. I dunno.

Quote from: Momotaro on January 10, 2015, 10:59:13 PM
Which is what confuses me.  Business startups are told to find their niche and charge "bespoke" prices rather than compete with the big companies that can always undercut them.  But GW ARE the big company in the field!  Why are they retreating from ANY competition?  Why are they copying the model of one of their smaller competitors?

If I had a pound every time I saw someone tearing their hair out trying to understand GW's business plan... Tom Kirby would nick my idea and make another fortune.

Quote
GW wants £95 for a UNIT of nine Skaven riflemen

I only just noticed myself. :(

Quote from: Momotaro on January 10, 2015, 11:07:07 PM
Or 8th Edition, as we currently call it.

lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 11, 2015, 03:39:14 AM
Oh... Only  $300 for a unit of nine miniatures. What a deal. Guess I'd better go and buy 100+ miniatures from elsewhere for that price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 11, 2015, 03:58:15 AM
Christ, that's £10.55 a figure! For rank-and-file!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on January 11, 2015, 06:33:52 AM
This is grim dark news indeed.

I am not optemistic that this is a ruse, as the 'buy new limited edition' models seems very in line with current policy. As does 'remove anything that is similar to normal fantasy/history'. :(

My hopes of a few bretonnian models and a rule book have cracked in half.

:(
Matt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 11, 2015, 08:00:39 AM
Yeah, I was hoping for a Bretonnian update as well. I guess that's out the window.

I was just wondering, if these rumours turn out to be true, will we have to start posting our warhammer figures in the post-apocalypse board? ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on January 11, 2015, 08:05:20 AM
Quote from: Modhail on January 11, 2015, 08:00:39 AM
Yeah, I was hoping for a Bretonnian update as well. I guess that's out the window.

I was just wondering, if these rumours turn out to be true, will we have to start posting our warhammer figures in the post-apocalypse board? ;D

 lol lol lol

This is speculation, but I wonder which races will get offed.
Bretonnians seem (regrettably) to be in the running to get the chop: although they could be absorbed into the human group I doubt they would retain their flavour.
Lizardmen, I'd guess - who would they go with?
All undead and all elves would become batches (so goodbye wood elves?)....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 11, 2015, 08:30:03 AM
Night goblins?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 11, 2015, 08:30:52 AM
And with all due respect to member sensibilities, GW at this point totally friggin sucks butt!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 11, 2015, 09:22:27 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 11, 2015, 09:06:47 AM
I dont get it. I am not saying you guys are lying but you must realise how insane this all sounds. So they know something we don't?

Its not just any insane

Its GW insane.

But based on the amount the rumors that have gotten a bit of it right, the latest nuts releases for skaven etc, it does look like GW want to take WHFB to a place were they can say "this is ours its not generic cease and desist"

Ok that to be honest is fine by me, go for it. But I am sorry, the prices are insane. I am not about to pay £90 quid - over a tenner a mini for plastic toy soldiers!

I am English, and eccentric but I am not that insane  ;D

Overall if enough of this is true, in combination with their standard "model" of business, namely hike the price every minute and drop the number of models, its an impossible game to play.

If in addition which seems likely with such sweeping changes it precedes the arrival of a new starter box set, what kind of insane price will that land at, £250?

If so you will likely only get 12 minis for each side!

and whats the point of a nine mini box? Same with the laughable 3 plastic skellies in a box they have been doing for years it seems now - argghhh I need a padded cell to bounce around in for a while.

They can have it after me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 11, 2015, 09:40:37 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on January 11, 2015, 03:58:15 AM
Christ, that's £10.55 a figure! For rank-and-file!

In the interests of fairness, it's a team of 2 on a base. Does that help any?

No me neither  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 11, 2015, 11:16:13 AM
I suspect in a year or two the conversation will be,  "Remember GW that company that folded?  They used to make great stuff int he 90's..."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 11, 2015, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on January 11, 2015, 11:16:13 AM
I suspect in a year or two the conversation will be,  "Remember GW that company that folded?  They used to make great stuff int he 90's..."

Honestly I have been hoping for GW to fold for a while, as there would be a minor chance for fans to pick up the rights and actually hammer out a decent game at some point.  :?

Actually I'd rather have GW going this completely different route. I'd prefer something "fresh" that I don't really recognize as the game I used to love rather then seeing is twisted bit by bit.  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 11, 2015, 12:13:08 PM
I think 2015 is going to be a glorious year.

For Mantic, and maybe Wargames Foundry, too (God of Battles is my favourite fantasy battle game, and the first I've ever completed armies for).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 11, 2015, 01:13:02 PM
Bought the rule book for god of battles before xmas as it was cheap.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 11, 2015, 01:26:18 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on January 11, 2015, 08:05:20 AM
lol lol lol

This is speculation, but I wonder which races will get offed.
Bretonnians seem (regrettably) to be in the running to get the chop: although they could be absorbed into the human group I doubt they would retain their flavour.
Lizardmen, I'd guess - who would they go with?
All undead and all elves would become batches (so goodbye wood elves?)....


Speculation about the six factions that I've heard:

Elves together are one. They've already been lumped together, despite centuries of in-universe bitterness and enmity, for this Nagash thing.

Humans (What's left of Empire and Bretonnia) + dwarfs. Including the new fantasy space marines. Seems like Karl Franz has somehow transformed into the first of these.

Chaos.

Skaven. Being one of GW's more defensible races, apparently, despite being basic ratmen with a bell fetish.

Greenskins, possibly with ogres lumped in.

Undead.

Lizardmen are probably out. From what I hear there's already been a throwaway line in one of the End Times books about them evacuating the planet.

But then there's been one of these rumour compilations by Harry or someone on Warseer, saying how the shakeup will be greater and some of the six factions may be completely new.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 11, 2015, 01:40:59 PM
I'm curious to what these six factions will entail. Not necessarily positively so, but curious all the same.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 11, 2015, 03:00:15 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 11, 2015, 09:06:47 AM
I dont get it. I am not saying you guys are lying but you must realise how insane this all sounds. So they know something we don't?

Here's my vague understanding of the situation, scraped together from various places:

1)  90% of GW sales are 40k - in fact 2/3 of their sales are JUST space marines;

2) LotR/Hobbit sales are tiny - read somewhere that the Desolation of Smaug sourcebook sold in the hundreds.  That's... pathetic - RPG sales figures, not GW and certainly not a licensed product.  That explains the minimal effort put into the Christmas Hobbit releases;

3) Fantasy is between the two - about 10% of sales, but it isn't producing the same return on investment as 40k for a game that fills half the shops;

4)  GW recognise that the cost of entry to the game is too high - a basic army costs hundreds even using the starter set.  That includes the huge pile of rules you have to accumulate and digest just to get going;

5)  Business analytics would suggest that they just can the line and fall back on 40k - smaller but safer turnover and more profit on fewer sales;

6) They can't just release a skirmish game - people buy the book then just use their existing armies;

7)  Too many of the models are 10-15+ years old and looking dated;

8 )  Too many other companies are making cheaper elves, dwarves, orcs etc.  Some companies are specifically making replacements and add-ons for GW figures;

9)  I've seen figures of 15-20% annual growth in the tabletop games market (board, RPG and minis games).  Against that background, GW sales are shrinking.  Reading between the lines of their annual report, some folks have suggested that their sales have collapsed and it's only the inflated prices and selling every word they write that are keeping them going - plus the occasional piece of brilliance (End Times, Imperial Knight);

10)  Plenty of their competitors have a much better (cheaper, more structured) business model for players to buy into and expand their purchases - with quality components and slick rules, even boardgames are now, arguably, reproducing the tabletop wargame experience just as well as wargames.

So the plan is smaller armies of models with a design that's new and unique to GW, and containing the huge centrepiece models that only GW make.  Smaller army = easier/cheaper to start playing.  Nobody else makes giant ratmen with gatling gun hands (or food blenders or oompah bands, judging from that Stormfiend photo), so customers MUST buy from GW.  It also allows a smaller core ruleset with campaign-specific add-ons - no more spending £300 on rulebooks to keep up with the local scene.

At the same time, they streamline the inventory, stimulate sales with new models and keep the sales ticking over and inventory tight with regular limited releases.  Win-win right?

On the down site...

1) With their usual tin ear for customer feedback, they may underestimate the number of people who just stick with what they have, proxy with existing models anyway, or simply rage-quit GW games (see also: D&D 4th Edition, New Coke).  If these people are not buying much though, will GW even miss them, or are parents instrumental in getting kids into the hobby?

2) Their prices are STILL too high.  You can buy into plenty of other games with £50-100 TOTAL investment.  £55 for a giant army leader and £40 for a single unit of three giant ratmen may STILL be to expensive.  Pricing remains to be seen;

3)  It still doesn't sound like a coherent plan to bring in and retain new players while giving the old-timers something to do.  On the other hand, it could work - if they bring out a great game and some cool models at sane prices, it could be brilliant.

Simple answer is - who knows?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 11, 2015, 03:43:41 PM
As I see it, there are two key components in that: Price and mini quality.

There is, however, as I see it, nothing (in the current state of affairs AND experience) to suggest that those two components will be at a level that spawns success. What we see is ever bigger - and, in my opinion, uglier - over-the-top sculpts at ever increasing prices (especially the latter to a point that defies sanity).

There might be a market consisting of millionaire heir playboys for this, but I doubt it. GW products has certainly been outside my financial reach for quite a while, now, and I wonder how many parents are dragged into a hobby store by their hopeful offspring, just to flee screaming or laughing (depending on mood), never to set foot in one again...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 11, 2015, 04:28:52 PM
The thing about the GW business model of charging way WAY too much is that it's predicated on old timers hanging on - those are the people who are already invested in the game and who may be old enough to afford it. So blowing it all up to start a new game but using the same horrifying price structure will only alienate the last of the old customers who're keeping things going while not admitting new ones.

Plus I'm not even sure they have it in them to make a genuinely attractive and fun game anymore - I'm not sure many people would see those rat ogres and get excited to play a new game that looked like that unless it turned out to be some silly bonkers post-apoc game.

In theory, WFB dying is like the GW collapse in miniature. It was always a smaller game than 40k (though years ago it had to have commanded a bigger share than just 10%) and it was always much easier to find competing or alternative products, so it was more vulnerable by far. This is the end result of them pricing themselves out of the market and destroying their fanbase. This End Times explosion is just the last grab at the cliff edge before oblivion. 

One other thing...

The six planetoids really has me thinking of an MMO online game sort of structure. Maybe the fallback if the explosive revamp fails is to reuse the IP for another computer game?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 11, 2015, 04:33:30 PM
By the way, GW will be bought out before they fold. I would bet good money that at least one or two major toy companies - Hasbro or their ilk - have been keeping an eye on GW for a while and are just waiting for the moment their stock collapses.


Even if those big fellows aren't paying that much attention now (after all, we pay such close attention because we're directly interested), they'll wake up to the takeover possibilities once the stock tanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on January 11, 2015, 04:35:25 PM
Am I right in saying that Warhammer was the game which launched the GW success? Wouldn't they be losing their flagship?

FramFramson - if that does happen, I wonder where they'd take wargaming to...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 11, 2015, 04:48:29 PM
It's funny too when you think of how many multi-faction fantasy wargames essentially rip off the GW world concept. It's been an enduring and popular basis for fantasy wargaming.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: qazbnm on January 11, 2015, 07:09:23 PM
Actually a skirmish game sounds like the sensible thing to do. They should have done it ages ago by integrating Warhammer skirmish from 6th ed more with the mass battle rules. I doubt that they'll get it right now though. None of their new releases have been appealing to me,  ever since I got back into the 'games workshop hobby'. If they have a problem with people buying toys from other manufacturers, maybe they should do better toys instead of trying to force people back by getting rid of the old units.

The limited edition thing to boost the amount of new figures isn't a new strategy though. Didn't ansell do something similar in the 80s by letting sculptors convert the masters before casting the molds?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 11, 2015, 07:52:38 PM
Been holding off on a couple of fairly large bits orders for a while. Finally caved and grabbed a slew of stuff because the way things are going who knows how things will end.

Now if I could just find some damned Ungor heads anywhere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 11, 2015, 08:44:28 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 11, 2015, 01:26:18 PM
Speculation about the six factions that I've heard:

Elves together are one. They've already been lumped together, despite centuries of in-universe bitterness and enmity, for this Nagash thing.

Humans (What's left of Empire and Bretonnia) + dwarfs. Including the new fantasy space marines. Seems like Karl Franz has somehow transformed into the first of these.

Chaos.

Skaven. Being one of GW's more defensible races, apparently, despite being basic ratmen with a bell fetish.

Greenskins, possibly with ogres lumped in.

Undead.

Lizardmen are probably out. From what I hear there's already been a throwaway line in one of the End Times books about them evacuating the planet.

But then there's been one of these rumour compilations by Harry or someone on Warseer, saying how the shakeup will be greater and some of the six factions may be completely new.
New race - fantasy Tau, lol, or just kill everyone off with a Tyranid invasion. Or perhaps th e skaven created tyranids out of warp stone and then turned into tyranids themselves and that's how they are in 40k.
Wow I should be GW CEO
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hauptgefreiter on January 11, 2015, 09:35:42 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on January 11, 2015, 07:52:38 PM
Now if I could just find some damned Ungor heads anywhere.

What about Broolian Beastmen Heads (http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/7-beastmen-heads) from Victoria Miniatures?

(http://product-images.highwire.com/3693171/beastman-heads.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 11, 2015, 09:48:24 PM
Quote from: Hauptgefreiter on January 11, 2015, 09:35:42 PM
What about Broolian Beastmen Heads (http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/7-beastmen-heads) from Victoria Miniatures?

(http://product-images.highwire.com/3693171/beastman-heads.jpg)

I see the ungors are back in stock for the uk.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 11, 2015, 10:10:46 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on January 11, 2015, 04:35:25 PM
Am I right in saying that Warhammer was the game which launched the GW success? Wouldn't they be losing their flagship?

FramFramson - if that does happen, I wonder where they'd take wargaming to...

Games Workshop, and its sister miniature company really started as resellers of other companies games and miniatures under licence.

Their own successes came out of that, and since the original people who set it all up were bought out  by the accountants as such, they have been living off that original success and ideas every since.

Bugger does that make me feel old.

That said they want money from it, and although fantasy did make them money before, its really their business policies that have ruined their cash cow more than anything else.

And will continue to until it gets taken away from them.

Its why more sensible business are able to get in and be successful with fantasy products similar to theirs without difficulty - the market and customers exist, they just don't want to be ripped off - don't care if the miniature is absolutely gorgeous, its not worth 10 quid or 18 quid for a little bit of molded plastic. They don't get it, every one else does.

The game may be great that they have come up with but its simply not affordable to enough people to be viable product.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 11, 2015, 10:59:18 PM
Quote from: Hauptgefreiter on January 11, 2015, 09:35:42 PM
What about Broolian Beastmen Heads (http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/7-beastmen-heads) from Victoria Miniatures?

(http://product-images.highwire.com/3693171/beastman-heads.jpg)

A little too beastish for my.

The Ungor heads are basically perfect for doing orc conversions if you happen to be playing a game that has more human-looking orcs. What you do is just trim the heads off.  

There's actually a head I'm looking for in particular, but I'd take any I could get. There's another LAF-er who's very kindly having a look to see if his friend has extras, but as that's two steps removed I'm still looking around on my own.

I *might* have a line on some though, so maybe that'll be sorted too...

Quote from: Scurv on January 11, 2015, 08:42:24 PM
that is the plan. Freak people into buying their flagging fantasy stuff by saying they are destroying it all. (luckily there will be warehouses full of old stuff to be found and sold as limited edition....

Nah, see that would make too much sense! It would require someone who could actually find their own ass to come up with something like that, so that puts out GW's current "brain" trust.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on January 12, 2015, 04:21:59 AM
I'm not entirely caught up on all the stuff that's going on with the rumours and hearsay, but I could really see them doing some kind of deus ex machina mallarky to set everything back to where it was in the first place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 12, 2015, 05:05:13 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on January 12, 2015, 04:21:59 AM
I'm not entirely caught up on all the stuff that's going on with the rumours and hearsay, but I could really see them doing some kind of deus ex machina mallarky to set everything back to where it was in the first place.
I don't know... regressing back to Oldhammer would be a lot smarter than what's apparently the current plan!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 12, 2015, 09:01:29 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on January 12, 2015, 04:21:59 AM
I'm not entirely caught up on all the stuff that's going on with the rumours and hearsay, but I could really see them doing some kind of deus ex machina mallarky to set everything back to where it was in the first place.

Annnd we all wake up and it was just a dream, no giant ratmen - no Historical Empire Space Marines.


Quote from: FramFramson on January 12, 2015, 05:05:13 AM
I don't know... regressing back to Oldhammer would be a lot smarter than what's apparently the current plan!

FramFramson has the right of it.

Its certainly an idea out there available to them to copy like most everything else... Don't think they could do it, ie admit they are doing things wrong? Change direction?

No. they will steam on until someone else takes whats left away from them or its just gone. Sit back relax, train wreck is coming. But its anyones guess how much more track they have left before it happens.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on January 12, 2015, 09:26:32 AM
The more I think about it, the more it seems like an impractically large expansion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on January 12, 2015, 09:32:31 AM
Those, erm, slightly over stylised rat-ogre-obliterator-thingies appear to be on square bases mind you.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 12, 2015, 10:54:31 AM
Quote from: Streetline on January 12, 2015, 09:32:31 AM
Those, erm, slightly over stylised rat-ogre-obliterator-thingies appear to be on square bases mind you.

Probably in the new rules you have to have a minimum of ten in a unit - so square bases to rank them up  ;D

Of course they only come in a box of three...

What until you see the new movement trays... huge...

must get back to sleep work..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 12, 2015, 11:43:12 AM
If these rumours are true, I despair at all the molds that will be destroyed and put in the skip bin.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on January 12, 2015, 11:58:20 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on January 11, 2015, 03:00:15 PM
2) LotR/Hobbit sales are tiny - read somewhere that the Desolation of Smaug sourcebook sold in the hundreds.  That's... pathetic - RPG sales figures, not GW and certainly not a licensed product.  That explains the minimal effort put into the Christmas Hobbit releases;

Well I'm sure the over the top pricing doesn't help selling the Hobbit stuff. Paying as much for a plastic Legolas as for the older 12 man plastic boxes is nuts. Even more insane if you remember those were 24 figure boxes for a little more money... Most of them being finecast isn't helping either.
I like most of the hobbit stuff as far as they look, but the only thing I bought was the Escape from goblin town.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 12, 2015, 12:27:01 PM
Not sure whether to laugh or cry, or a bit of both

But its a corking bit of literature

http://investor.games-workshop.com/our-business-model/

I must say they do concentrate of their ranges of Fantasy works, and they work on them really hard - it really does show how much effort they put in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mick_in_Switzerland on January 12, 2015, 12:35:30 PM
RE LOTR & Hobbit Sales.

I am sure that the sales have dropped to a very low level but it still surprises me.
It should have everything going for it:-
- The books remain popular.
- The films are very popular and the Hobbit BoFA should have caused a masive sales boost.
- The LOTR SBG rules are very good and easy to learn - I regularly see good comments about the rules on here and other forums.
- The figures are sculpted by the Perry brothers and are excellent.
- The plastic figures are dynamic and well made.

As far as I can see, this was destroyed by GW alone.

I know that I have bought and painted literally hundereds of official LOTR figures.  
I have mostly plastic armies for Gondor, Rohan, Moria, Isengard plus Mamuk, several Trolls, two Ents, two Fellbeasts etc, etc
As the prices went up and up, I collected many of the metal characters and elite troops on EBay (many = well over 100).
I do not want finecast figures because I regard it too delicate for game playing so most of the recent character figures are not interesting.

When the first Hobbit film came out, I bought the Goblin Town Set, Sourcebook and plastic Eagles.
In the past year, the only thing that I bought was 10 plastic Mirkwood Rangers.
I was and still am ready to buy a lot more but the prices & finecast have stopped me.

Mick
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 12, 2015, 12:46:58 PM
I understand that its not an easy franchise to deal with. But. as you say - could have been better.

In fact the other day I was looking at the mithril miniatures range that is at least still partially available. Ok, out of nostalgia mostly but still, they are there.

As far as GW, its been a wasted franchise, and could have been handled better, rather than just for the money. I have bought some miniatures from the range, but only via ebay, and carefully to keep the number of them/price to a sensible level (my idea of sensible, and did not worry at all about losing auctions when the price went wrong).

I guess thought thats its just not really part of the GW hobby

http://investor.games-workshop.com/the-games-workshop-hobby/

Oh dear, my hobby appears to not be the GW hobby   o_o


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 12, 2015, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 12, 2015, 12:46:58 PM
http://investor.games-workshop.com/the-games-workshop-hobby/

Quote: "there is only a relatively small second-hand market in our miniatures"

Relatively to what, exactly??  lol I've been buying droves of second hand plastics this last fall.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 12, 2015, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: Argonor on January 12, 2015, 01:35:09 PM
Quote: "there is only a relatively small second-hand market in our miniatures"

Relatively to what, exactly??  lol I've been buying droves of second hand plastics this last fall.

Probably either

a.The secondhand car market

b. The housing market

I would not be surprised if the second hand GW market is actually larger than the first hand one...

But that perhaps is in another dream/reality/hobby.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 12, 2015, 02:26:11 PM
What about all the boys who leave it their rooms for their mothers to sell when they turn to cars , girls and booze.
Anyway I got a free skaven head  badge with my order,so will never Diss gw again . lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 12, 2015, 02:32:49 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on January 12, 2015, 02:26:11 PM
What about all the boys who leave it their rooms for their mothers to sell when they turn to cars , girls and booze.
Anyway I got a free skaven head  badge with my order,so will never Diss gw again . lol

What a waste - just think how much booze, how nice a car, and girls that amount of money spent on GW could have got them!

Their parents I mean, not the boys...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on January 12, 2015, 02:57:28 PM
When I saw this...
(http://www.cargad.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/nuevas-ratas-ogro-acorazadas.jpg)
I thought sure it was a Mantic Sci-Fi Veer-Myn unit. 

Then I find out it's a WHFB unit!!
What the heck is GW doing?

On the other hand as much as it would shaft the vets, -and I still doubt it will happen- going to a small skirmish game is probably the best thing that WHFB could do.  The cost of an army is too high and if GW refuses to cut prices to make it more financially feasible, then switching to a smaller game is the next best solution to get the kids to play it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 12, 2015, 04:22:11 PM
I can't help but remember my brother and I playing the Warhammer Fantasy Battle (first edition) game with a smattering of models -  Citadel, Runequest, Grenadier, Ral Partha, Mithril etc... anything the cupboard really.

GW only made the Warhammer game because people had been asking for a battle game, so they could have a wargame using their roleplay miniatures.

The old 'Regiments of Renown' were a great idea - my brother's Bugman's Dwarf Rangers vs my Harboth's Black Mountain Orc Boys - and were a really affordable (8 troopers plus 1 'character' model for £3) way to build up your unit slowly.

Even so, with my heart in the '80s, they did seem to peak in the 1990s. It seemed like they really got a handle on the game, on the races, on the rules and all they then needed to do was keep it ticking over, tweaking the rules perhaps with further editions if anything was really broken, but so long as they updated with regular models, they probably couldn't go wrong. Surely. Warhammer was THE game in town and the few fantasy battle competitors who dared take them on for a slice of the pie withered on the vine. In fact, so popular was the game and so playable, that it then of course spawned the Ancient Battles game, for those who wanted the fun without the fantasy.

I can't help but think that the company is looking like Zap Brannigan has taken the helm of a spaceship cruising along on autopilot and steered it into a black hole.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 12, 2015, 04:31:23 PM
Looks like the round bases are coming... saw this online.  Notice that the big engines in the background are on rounds:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c5x20D3vV1k/VLFKEKuNaaI/AAAAAAAAuh4/jy2dTJe9WAs/s1600/thanquol.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 12, 2015, 05:07:52 PM
Really the peak, best time was late 80's 90's

Basically just before the 'problems' and the management buyout. No real competition from computer games either...

Yes they had issues, in that the guys were gamers rather than business men, but thats really when the heart got torn out and the rule of accountancy set in.

If that had not happened either they would have folded due to poor business decisions, and disappeared in the same way as other similar companies supplying miniatures and games did.

I would like to think that if something else other than the management buyout had occurred they could have scraped through and got stronger after. That Games Workshop would have been an utterly different thing, and I bet we would be all acting very differently towards it.

As Scurv mentions, they could have just kept it all running with simple tweaks and updates, their pricing would have been industry standard, and in effect they would be to.

Now they are the  :o of the industry and all over the place are the comments of how long can it go on?

No matter how long it takes, they are going to go, bust/takeover/bought etc, its just a question of when and how much will be left.

The saddest part has always been for me the distruction, always destroying past masters/molds etc as "to expensive to store/retain" nonsense.

Nonsense demonstrated by Ral Partha Europe, EM4 (Yay Doug and spacelords), Mirliton and others - back catalogues and old miniatures are still in demand.

I for one would rather buy some of the old stuff now rather than a giant skaven with rock nipples and a gatling gun for a third breast...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Peabody on January 12, 2015, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 12, 2015, 05:07:52 PM
Yes they had issues, in that the guys were gamers rather than business men, but that's really when the heart got torn out and the rule of accountancy set in.
Revenge of the Sloane Rangers...

Now there is some potential, with a bit of conversion work, for an ironic Warhammer regiment of renown.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 12, 2015, 06:03:58 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 12, 2015, 05:07:52 PM
I for one would rather buy some of the old stuff now rather than a giant skaven with rock nipples and a gatling gun for a third breast...
Absolutely. If they'd give us access to their 80's and 90's catalogues, I'd throw every spare penny I have into their coffers... 
Sadly the idiots destroyed every chance of that ever happening.  :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 12, 2015, 06:21:42 PM
Quote from: Timbor on January 12, 2015, 04:31:23 PM
Looks like the round bases are coming... saw this online.  Notice that the big engines in the background are on rounds:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c5x20D3vV1k/VLFKEKuNaaI/AAAAAAAAuh4/jy2dTJe9WAs/s1600/thanquol.jpg)

:o
Wtf is that supposed to be!
Surely you would know if that was in your sewer  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 12, 2015, 06:42:08 PM
Imagine the plunger you'd need....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on January 12, 2015, 06:48:35 PM
Quote from: Modhail on January 12, 2015, 06:42:08 PM
Imagine the plunger you'd need....

They clearly don't have domestic in the Empire haha...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 12, 2015, 06:50:04 PM
****ing hell  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 12, 2015, 07:26:37 PM
On the subject of management buyouts, here's an interesting read about what happened to Wizards of the Coast: http://www.salon.com/2001/03/23/wizards/

I think you'll note some eerie parallels.

It's enough to make a body wonder if it's possible for a games company to ever be large and prosperous without losing its gamer roots and going corporate.

I'd say something about gamers having a lack of business sense, but to be honest, I've found that the basics of business sense are appallingly lacking from almost every walk of life and that this is coming out more and more as we see so many small businesses being started up these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 12, 2015, 07:43:48 PM
Quote from: Timbor on January 12, 2015, 04:31:23 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c5x20D3vV1k/VLFKEKuNaaI/AAAAAAAAuh4/jy2dTJe9WAs/s1600/thanquol.jpg)

See, that's what I mean. The IoB rat ogres...

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ts1HdLGjywM/TEMJQDnnScI/AAAAAAAAMTo/GOmcCTaFzQc/s640/New_Rat_Ogres.jpg)

... they're inflated overmuscled cartoony pinheads, but they're still well-posed, well-proportioned for what they are, and the sculptor seems to know what they're exaggerating. The new boneripper dials it up to 11, and as a result turned out like a wedge of pink flab with robo-arms poking out of it, and a head that belongs to something else.

Judging by a few bits and pieces, I think the sculptor is still Seb Perbett; but something's gone wrong, man. Something's gone wrong.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 12, 2015, 08:25:53 PM
And I thought these used to be far fetched
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/myLZi7MtncH65IM6R-aP74w.jpg
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 12, 2015, 08:49:10 PM
I think that's the big problem with current GW kits.
Yesterday I assembled one of the recent Dwarf lords and the Dark Elf sorcercess and I was impressed with how well the kits are designed end the crispness of even the small details. Technically, modern GW kits are perfect, little gems of sprue and part engineering, but the design of the subject matter is, well, shite.

It's like Michaelangelo or Rembrandt painting a perfect, dramatically composed, detailed and emotion-provoking portrait.....of a cow patty. Mounted in a rococo picture frame.
Just look at the staff the grey seer is holding, it is delicate, neat, cleanly shaped and you know it will cast up perfectly, every time. Then look at the...thing... it sits atop.  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 12, 2015, 08:58:33 PM
Price is pretty much it (other than the utterly horrible design direction - it's all going a bit Warmachine-meets-World of Warcraft for me). Even the pre-Warcraft stuff is now prohibitively expensive for the most part. Not to mention that you no longer get free postage until you spend £40, which means buying the odd metal character I want is stupid money considering the pre-postage price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 12, 2015, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: Modhail on January 12, 2015, 08:49:10 PM
Technically, modern GW kits are perfect, little gems of sprue and part engineering, but the design of the subject matter is, well, shite.

Quote from: Gibby on January 12, 2015, 08:58:33 PM
(other than the utterly horrible design direction - it's all going a bit Warmachine-meets-World of Warcraft for me)

Yes!

Quote from: Scurv on January 12, 2015, 08:51:49 PM
I bet all you other guys are in the same boat. Seriously how much did you spend on GW WITH GW in '14? My total was zero though I did buy over 60-80 figs that GW makes....

Three boxes, a couple paints, the mould line tool.... and a bunch of stuff for pennies off ebay.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 12, 2015, 09:28:12 PM
Barring a price rise or three in the interim, about £75; and I'm surprised it came out that much when I totted it up on the webstore.

(All three boxes are still sitting in a corner, unopened. Great value!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 12, 2015, 10:27:58 PM
Box of ungors and box of lotr hunter orcs is all I can remember.
Bought some hobbit goblins on eBay 2 boxes for practically price of one, those are earmarked for mutant conversions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 12, 2015, 10:59:28 PM
Not a sausage from GW direct, 2nd hand? £600 maybe more in the last year... I don't want to count it'll scare me hehe
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 12, 2015, 11:36:34 PM
About £100 for me.  If I go back 4 years, it doesn't even break £200 total.  I do like their paints though.

EBay this year - the Island of Blood Skaven, the Dark Vengeance Chaos Marines, and a pile of mutant Hobbit goblins - got five boxes worth for £20, 40 became skaven slaves.  Oh, and a a copy of the Hobbit rulebook (£20 in mint condition) and the Warhammer 8th rules (£5!!! near mint condition).

Both the books are really amazing, clearly laid out, tons of scenarios and loads of history and eye candy, but I would never pay full price for them.  The Warhammer one especially needs some starter army lists, in the style of the old Ravening Hordes.

That's the thing - many of their minis are fantastic and have so many options.  A single box of 40k troops is an excellent deal for skirmish (Fantasy less so, though I still reckon the Empire Militia boxed set is the best single box of fun in wargaming).  You get a fantastic range of assembly options and weapons.  They just don't make games at that scale any more...

For a Judge Dredd street gang, the DE Wytches would be kind of fun, or the Hellions would be a good Sky Surfer force.  And not expensive...

And for buying in bulk, the clip-together starter set armies are amazing models and great value.  They could easily do a £30 clip-together starter for every army, in different colours of plastic so you could be up and playing in an hour or so.

It's buying the whole bloody army that's the pain... was reading the Lichemaster scenarios from the 80s this week.  The Vengeance scenario from the Citadel Journal scenario wants 20 humans, 40 skaven, and an undead horde of... 60 minis!  And these are single-piece metals that take 2 minutes to clean up, not modern plastics - you could probably build and paint your army in a couple of weeks.  And that scenario has plenty for your army to do, several special abilities, characterful objectives and fun randomness.  Love the dalek...


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 13, 2015, 12:40:07 AM
I bought space hulk, that was purely for nostalgia reasons as well. Great game too. However I did manage to give GW the least amount of money as possible by buying from the UK rather than here in NZ and getting it forwarded to me by NZpost office in the UK.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 13, 2015, 02:16:42 AM
Usually they wouldn't get anything from me and I've even started to move on from the second hand market as well. There is just so much variety out there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 13, 2015, 03:10:39 AM
About £100 in the past six months, but all from bits sellers and not GW themselves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 13, 2015, 03:15:30 AM
I spend thousands of dollars a year on miniatures and hobby related stuff... pretty much none of it GW, most of it second hand.  I have probably spent $100 over the past 2 years from GW from an independent retailer.  I might pick up a few boxes of stuff in the next couple months in case the whole line goes kaput!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on January 13, 2015, 06:08:14 AM
Last GW thing I bought was a plastic Tau Devilfish APC. That was shortly after they first came out, sooooo....

10 years ago, maybe? Don't remember precisely.

I'm mostly a adventure/skirmish party guy rather than an army guy, and I'm a bit snobby about sculpt quality, so I don't mind paying collectors prices from time to time. If I were building an army though, it would bloody well need to be economical, and big army stuff is GW's main vein, so... yeah.

Mind you even by my standards, Forgeworld has always been firmly "look, but don't buy" price-wise. Even their small stuff is absurd.

Mostly my turnoff has been more and more the art style. Specifically I don't like how many small independents that could be making cool new stuff are instead making GW knock-off designs to parasitize GW. There's some seriously brazen stuff out there. I often wonder how stuff like this (https://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/miniatures/scibor-monstrous-miniatures/templar-sf-knight-4.html) or this (https://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/miniatures/kabuki-models-2/templar-knight-1.html) doesn't get sued, given GW's reputation.

GW having they're own art style: great. Other people trying to cash in on the GW style and thus narrowing the available variety on the market: not so great. It bugs the artist in me to see that kind of wallowing anti-ambition. I feel like these sculptors/manufacturers are aiming low and squandering both their and the community's potential by choosing to be copycats.

I've lost track of how many times this has happened:

"Oh, hey! A new company announcing itself! I wonder what kind of cool stuff they might have, or what their sculpting is li..."

"...Oh. Just another interchangeable GW remora. Seriously, people? Seriously? Do none of you have a trace of pride or creativity, or, god forbid, ambition? Just "nope, LOL, it's GW's shadow for me!', eh?"

That's not really GW's responsibility, but that just makes it extra messed-up. If the only way for the problem to fix itself is for an "innocent" company to take a dive, things have gotten really effed up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on January 13, 2015, 07:26:55 AM
£6 or £6.50 (I forget exactly) for a box of 5 Chaos Cultists directly from GW. Bought a few of their paints from Boyes though. Also paid some silly prices on eBay for Realm of Chaos champions, Bob Olley Ogryns etc.

My group and I have just got started on Dropzone Commander over christmas and it is really enjoyable so far. There are three of us and we chipped in £50 each to get started. We each bought a starter set for £35, one of us bought the rulebook for £15 and the other two of us went halves on the scenery set for £30.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 13, 2015, 10:56:18 AM
nothing direct, only via ebay, etc for the last 2 or more years..

Bought IoB and Dark Vengeance when Dark Vengeance came out as I got interested again.

And nothing prior to that between then and er, 1995 ish.. due to their prices went to high.. :D

So I guess for me they priced themselves out of my pocket 20 years ago... Shows how much loosing my custom impacted their business  ;D

They will regret it eventually  lol

In truth it was seeing some boxes of mantic stuff in a local boardgame shop that started me off again getting into this "not the GW Hobby"

Then uncle google showed me lots of other nice stuff, and stuff I thought had stopped being made decades ago (love my old Grenadier stuff I does).

So in the end I can take or leave GW stuff, but mainly leave it.

Plenty of lead left in my mountain!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 13, 2015, 01:43:56 PM
I bought a couple of necron kits at a wargames show, and some chaos box sets before Christmas (more than I expected to buy, but the chaos marauders looked too good to miss). However, they've been a tiny part of my hobby purchases for quite a few years now.

I have been wondering if I should make a list of box sets to pick up, just in case they do actually de-list everything. It's not a long list, but there are still some figures I would like to have.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 13, 2015, 04:39:44 PM
Ah, Connectamabob, I know the feeling. I've thought the same about aaall these GW orbiters too (often going more OTT than even GW also). But I can't blame them for the sales they must get, and I'd be lying if I said it wasn't tempting to play in GW's sandpit, maybe add my own interpretation to some of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 14, 2015, 10:11:37 AM


I am no expert, but the financial info they released today suggests there are still  people buying enough of their stuff...

 :o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 14, 2015, 12:32:14 PM
Good point, to distracted by work..

http://investor.games-workshop.com/2015/01/13/half-yearly-report-2014/

 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 14, 2015, 12:57:48 PM
What I read from those numbers is another drop of 6.6% in Revenue compared to the same period the previous year. Not alarming, but £4,000,000 is some kind of money after all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 14, 2015, 01:02:56 PM


Guess that really means in GW speak that they did not put the prices up enough  last year ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on January 14, 2015, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 12, 2015, 08:51:49 PM

The issue is price. Its over priced pure and simple.

I bet all you other guys are in the same boat. Seriously how much did you spend on GW WITH GW in '14?

I spend Zero for new product.  I probably spent about $100 total at a Swap Meet,but aside from a Blood Angel Squad, that was just to buy up figs to resell and trade for things I really want. Which I did, at great personal gain. I also spent about $100 on some deals for used LotR figs. I also did quite a bit of trading for a few bits and bobs of OOP stuff for necromunda. 

All in all, I spent about $120 on used GW product for myself.

GW product is something I now pick up only on blowout used deals.  I don't play 40k anymore (though I do use my armies in Warpath) and the prices now are too ridiculous to even consider getting back into the game seriously.  Truth be told they were ridiculous 4 years ago, now they're insane.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 14, 2015, 02:32:16 PM
Quote from: eilif on January 14, 2015, 02:21:04 PM
Truth be told they were ridiculous 4 years ago, now they're insane.

I concluded insane 20 odd years ago, but I had less money then and it was worth more now..But I don't have that money now, I have newer money and its worth less than it would have been if I had it 20 years ago. o_o

Either way new or old then or now they are to expensive for any of my money.

 ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 14, 2015, 03:35:14 PM
Revenue down, profits down.  The word seems to be that it's new kit that drives sales, so sales numbers must be down and it really is prices that are holding them up. It's generally seen as good if you can make the same money producing fewer things though.

Taken on its own, it's not terrible, not great.  Looks worse against a background of a booming tabletop market (double-digit growth for boardgames and the likes of Fantasy Flight Games).

They're top dog in the arena, and they have a loooong way to fall yet.  Their high prices work for and against them - even if they make fewer new customers than their competitors, they make far more off each one.  And less of that is through general retail, so they make more profit per sale.

Same with limited editions - maybe they could have made more from the End Times, but they played it safe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 14, 2015, 03:36:55 PM
The fact that people are still buying hints to me that there's everything to play for if the new Warhammer Bubbles rumours are true.  Even if folks here are not their market, people are spending £40 on three venomthropes or thee rat ogres.

A tight core game with a good starter set (or three...), small units to upgrade, swanky models with tons of unit options and special rules... could do well.  Could even be a fun game...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 14, 2015, 04:03:10 PM
Sadly I am just a poor boy and cannot afford to buy into their new GW hobby bits, at least not when there's other good stuff to get into for less.

Its clear according to their own publications that I am not the target market and clearly not a member of the GW hobby at all.

Still good luck to them.

I await the next new releases to have a snigger at, starting to remind me of the old news stories,  the time fillers about the funny shaped vegetables, or fruit with words or peoples faces in them...

Ohh look another funny shaped piece of plastic from GW, it looks like someones.... ::)

At least they are not finecast...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 14, 2015, 04:21:38 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 14, 2015, 04:03:10 PM
Ohh look another funny shaped piece of plastic from GW, it looks like someones.... ::)

You've been looking at the Tyranids again, haven't you?  Has it reached the point where a real sex toy is cheaper than GW's Freudian nightmares?

*sigh*

It's always been about price though, hasn't it?  That and screwing over shops as well as customers.  And it's not something they can change overnight - knock even 10% off across the board and the company is in big trouble.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 14, 2015, 04:36:07 PM
Quote from: Argonor on January 14, 2015, 12:57:48 PM
What I read from those numbers is another drop of 6.6% in Revenue compared to the same period the previous year. Not alarming, but £4,000,000 is some kind of money after all.

And the second half of the year is always going to be higher than the first, thanks to Christmas sales, unless something has REALLY gone wrong.

Quote from: Momotaro on January 14, 2015, 04:21:38 PM
You've been looking at the Tyranids again, haven't you?  Has it reached the point where a real sex toy is cheaper than GW's Freudian nightmares?

You're killing me, Momo  lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 14, 2015, 04:37:39 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on January 14, 2015, 04:21:38 PM
You've been looking at the Tyranids again, haven't you?  Has it reached the point where a real sex toy is cheaper than GW's Freudian nightmares?

Actually you have got something there. Whats the chain of shops that does ermmm those sex toy things.

Thinking that get  a few, some skulz, quick paint job and you have a good few proxies ready to play - ok strictly speaking depending on how you play with them you might not need paint or skulz but thats a different hobby isn't it - where talking kit bashing for Nagash proxies and things , not using them for their, er, original purpose.

I think u need to be accompanied by a lady though so might have to be mail order..- Anne Summers thats it - I knew i would remember eventually - was on the tip of my.. tongue.

Still that would be a lot of their toys for the price of just one of GW,  cannot imagine they would charge anything near as much, plus they must be non-toxic to and they would be multifunction to..!

Boring day in the office, thats my excuse and I am sticking to it until at least 17:30 GMT.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on January 14, 2015, 06:02:15 PM
There is an old Larry Leadhead comic strip where he uses various sex toys as alien vegetation.

But I cannot seem to find it just now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 14, 2015, 06:31:07 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on January 14, 2015, 04:36:07 PM
And the second half of the year is always going to be higher than the first, thanks to Christmas sales, unless something has REALLY gone wrong.


Yeah, but funnily enough they don't count December in those 6-months reports  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 14, 2015, 07:40:35 PM
Oh that's odd. I always thought quarterly meant quarterly. Well never mind then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 14, 2015, 07:42:19 PM
I imagine if they do change to warhammer bubbles they will see a profit from the old geezers ie. Us, buying the last of what we want from GW before it goes under.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 14, 2015, 10:11:10 PM
Typically, Crimbo retail sales tend to be 30%-ish of total annual sales, but with the GW business model who knows?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 15, 2015, 12:06:57 AM
Well, this is unexpected news.....

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-fantasy/creative-assembly-accidently-announce-total-war-warhammer/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 15, 2015, 12:36:08 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 15, 2015, 12:23:09 AM
LMFAO, errr warhammer based total war has been out for years. Look up call of warhammer. Good to see they finally realised its a money maker.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?1377-Call-of-Warhammer

massive total war fan here but only when its been modded to within an inch of its life.

There is a very good lord of the rings (movie version) mod as well.

Hmm, I wonder if my mac version mods....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 15, 2015, 12:52:03 AM
I'd be into that. I remember playing call of warhammer and finding it extremely hard to gain money in it and I had to use cheats (which I detest doing) to end up with any money to make units. Maybe it was buggy then and they gave it a reboot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 15, 2015, 01:34:18 AM
Yeah. It's pretty easy to make money in the normal unmodded total war. Maybe I'll give it a go some time again. Then again, official game coming out might be better. Might not as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 15, 2015, 09:57:16 AM
Weird that I feel sad to see WHFB 8th go...  o_o

Whilst there are still a few models that I'd like to buy, their prices have made this super-difficult and I doubt I'll bother to get them now.

The "new" stuff just leaves me cold in design terms - and the new prices? Absurd. Really, you can justify the prices any way you like, but I don't have £60 to sling at models that are so huge and delicate that I cannot realistically play games with them. That goes double when I look at what other models and games I can get for £60.

I was really looking forward to the new Skaven Vermin Lord, but after seeing the End Of Times rubbish models, I wasn't hopeful. Seeing the actual VL kit now just confirms what I was dreading in design and cost terms. So, yet another model that I wanted but won't be buying now. Well done GW, well done.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 16, 2015, 06:11:50 PM
This might be the week's head cold and the subsequent drugs talking, but I quite like these and don't think the price is
completely nuts.

(http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/Thallax-Plasma-1.jpg)

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 16, 2015, 06:22:22 PM
I love love love the design of that particular line of automatons.

They are still QUITE expensive though!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on January 16, 2015, 07:00:39 PM
They are nice.

This was just referred to me:

www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/01/16/holy-ships-battlefleet-gothic-armada-announced

Quote
Holy Ships: Battlefleet Gothic – Armada Announced

(http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/15/jan/bfga2small.jpg)

Cathedral ships, ahoy! Focus Interactive have announced that they will publish a real-time strategy adaptation of Games Workshop’s Battlefleet Gothic. Armada is already in development and we’ll be taking a closer look in very near future but the first details emerged moments ago. Fleets will be drawn from four forces – Imperial, Chaos, Eldar and Ork – and ships will be fully customisable, from their weaponry to support sub-systems. Admirals and crew will gain experience from one battle to the next, but the initial press release doesn’t contain any details regarding campaign or mission structure. Giant images await below, in the Warp.

Click to see the full majesty of the pics, including the one at the top of the article.

(http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/15/jan/bfga3small.jpg)

(http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/15/jan/bfga1small.jpg)

These ships really couldn’t be any more goth, could they? Sure, you could add eyeliner and big hair but that would cross the gothic streams and we’d end up with Robert Smith measuring out space for a flamboyant arch around his bedroom niche.

Developers Tindalos Interactive have previous in the space-based RTS space, most notable with Stellar Impact, which pleased Brendan back in 2012.

I had a brief dalliance with tabletop Battlefleet back in the day, as I did with most things Games Workshop. Weirdly, despite my preference for dark futures, I preferred Man O’ War, mainly because I knew a couple of people who had stacks o’ ships for use in its seafaring skirmishes. As is usually the case with 40k, I love the aesthetics but I don’t remember the specifics of the ruleset well enough to intelligently ponder how much will be jettisoned in the move to computerised realtime. I’m looking forward to finding out though and will tell you all about it in due course.

More confirmation the cats will just let the IP feed them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 16, 2015, 07:24:16 PM
Yep. They're farming everything over to computer gaming.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on January 16, 2015, 07:49:53 PM
Just had a look at the new Skaven models and was overwhelmed by a cheesy pong emanating from my device. Anyone else experience this?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 16, 2015, 10:34:53 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 16, 2015, 06:11:50 PM
This might be the week's head cold and the subsequent drugs talking, but I quite like these and don't think the price is
completely nuts.

Got my first Forge World model at the end of last year - split a pack of Vorax Automata.  A lovely detailed model and a good clean sculpt.  Those Thrallax look amazing too.

Go for it, models of that quality DEMAND to be built and painted!

Fallen in love with the Anvil Industries resins too - some really lovely stuff out there in resin at the moment.  if I was a better painter, I'd be all over the Hasslefree resin masters.  That's an expensive hobby though... I'm looking at Forge World now and thinking... hmm, Magos is cool, maybe some Beaky Marines, Verminlord...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on January 16, 2015, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on January 16, 2015, 10:34:53 PM
Got my first Forge World model at the end of last year - split a pack of Vorax Automata.  A lovely detailed model and a good clean sculpt.  Those Thrallax look amazing too.

Go for it, models of that quality DEMAND to be built and painted!

I just picked up some Forge World Heresy armor marines in a trade.  Very nice figs and up to the same high standards of the few other Forge World figs I've owned. If I were going to build another marine army, FW would probably be the way I'd go.  If I were to build an IG force though, it would be Victoria Miniatures all the way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 16, 2015, 11:10:55 PM
Forge World should be the branch doing the design work for the parent company. They have more hits than misses.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 17, 2015, 03:01:09 AM
Can someone please put GW out of its misery? Please?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 17, 2015, 03:41:19 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 16, 2015, 10:34:21 PM
so do I win the internet for predicting the shift to comp games first  lol
Computer Games Workshop
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pijlie on January 17, 2015, 01:44:00 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 16, 2015, 06:11:50 PM
This might be the week's head cold and the subsequent drugs talking, but I quite like these and don't think the price is
completely nuts.

(http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/Thallax-Plasma-1.jpg)

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff

I still think GBP 10 for a 28mm robot is rather unhinged. Compare to

(http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/robots2.gif)

which cost GBP 0,50 a piece. The difference in crispness does not add up to GBP 9,50, IMHO.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on January 17, 2015, 02:23:27 PM
Meanwhile on Dakkadakka
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2015/1/10/677506_md-Awesome%2C%20Land%20Raider%2C%20Over%20The%20Top%2C%20Skull.JPG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 17, 2015, 02:24:58 PM
Not enough skullz....  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 17, 2015, 02:27:19 PM
 :o o_o lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on January 17, 2015, 02:35:31 PM
Quote from: Pijlie on January 17, 2015, 01:44:00 PM
I still think GBP 10 for a 28mm robot is rather unhinged. Compare to...
(pic of EM4 Mechs)
...which cost GBP 0,50 a piece. The difference in crispness does not add up to GBP 9,50, IMHO.

The price is high of course (too high for me), but I think those are 40mm bases (and probably 40mm figs) and new resin sculpts rather than 20 year old plastics who's second hands molds have already been paid for many times over.

When one considers the cost and effort required for mass production of resin, plus whatever portion of the profits or licensing fees have to be paid to GW corporate, FW prices really don't surprise me.  They seem to be doing well, but I doubt that FW financials are spectacularly impressive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 17, 2015, 04:09:02 PM
Speaking of Computer Games Workshop, here's something that would never happen with non-Coputer GW: Your now-typical deep-discount online game sale.

https://www.humblebundle.com/store/promo/gamesworkshop
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luddite on January 17, 2015, 05:50:20 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 14, 2015, 12:32:14 PM
Good point, to distracted by work..

http://investor.games-workshop.com/2015/01/13/half-yearly-report-2014/

 :D

Bad figures for GW

The key figures are:

Turnover down 10.4% to £60.5m
Pre-tax profit down 30.6% to £7.7m
Basic EPS down 30.9% to 17.7p
Dividend - cancelled (was 18p last year)
Net cash £9.3m (£15.6m last year)

The reasons given for this poor performance are;

A continuation of the trend that developed in H2 of 2012/13
Disruption caused by rapid transition to one-man shops & reduced trading hours.
Decline in sales through independent stockists.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on January 17, 2015, 06:26:11 PM
Wow, that's alot of bad news. Is there any good news in there?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 17, 2015, 08:36:29 PM
Don't worry ,I fancy doing some space skaven,my couple boxes will bump them back up http://
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 17, 2015, 08:37:07 PM
So they are blaming independent stockist for the lack of sales. Man up and take the blame yourself rather than passing it on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 17, 2015, 09:57:10 PM
So has anyone played the Dawn of War II series? Seems like it's a fixed-force game with no in-mission base-building and limited reinforcements that leans more towards skirmish instead of large battles? Those actually all sound pretty good to me, but I'm not sure how much GW play I can actually stomach. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 17, 2015, 10:09:55 PM
Quote from: beefcake on January 17, 2015, 08:37:07 PM
So they are blaming independent stockist for the lack of sales. Man up and take the blame yourself rather than passing it on.

Sadly they've alienated the independent stockists by treating them so badly and a lot of them ditched GW in favour of their competitors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 17, 2015, 11:07:47 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 17, 2015, 10:26:17 PM
Its ok Fram. Its another C&C type game but is far less build up huge force slowly slog across the map 1 was. Much more click frenzy tentacle arms required though

Urrrrggh crap... I like the idea of skirmish so that I can focus better and actually play tactically instead of just trying to churn out as many dorks as I can, as fast as I can. Multitasking is not my thing.

Why is it a click frenzy - too much special ability management?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on January 17, 2015, 11:47:35 PM
Almost Rpg, with abilities to activate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on January 18, 2015, 09:50:47 AM
I actually rather liked the rpg elements. Including finding and equiping new items to taylor your force.

It's not that much worse then DoW I in multitasking. You simply have one little unit with a jetpack instead of hordes.

In effect you have to learn and manage 5 units tops.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 18, 2015, 05:10:30 PM
I figure I will have little-to-zero interest in multiplayer and will only play the single player campaign. So maybe the clicking is not too bad for single player?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 20, 2015, 09:10:14 AM
So.

If I wants a brand new, high-quality plastic, 28mm leader for my skaven force, they are available at the current limited edition price of... 13.50 GBP.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Skaven-Warlord-2014

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Skaven-Grey-Seer-2014

errrr, no ta, I don't think I will bother.

Now the new FW robots do look cheap compared to that.

And increasingly as already mentioned, foundry resin is starting to look more cheap/viable than GW plastics ;D

Quote from: eilif on January 17, 2015, 02:35:31 PM
The price is high of course (too high for me), but I think those are 40mm bases (and probably 40mm figs) and new resin sculpts rather than 20 year old plastics who's second hands molds have already been paid for many times over.

When one considers the cost and effort required for mass production of resin, plus whatever portion of the profits or licensing fees have to be paid to GW corporate, FW prices really don't surprise me.  They seem to be doing well, but I doubt that FW financials are spectacularly impressive.

My hat is still off, regardless of the lesser quality to those old robots from EM4, because they are old, still available and more than good enough to do something with.

Still I  am tempted by FW - not enough to buy them but still. Tempted

As for Skaven leaders, I wonder if they will be limited edition/availability or still available, as the molds age into the middle of 2015, and the price rises to 15 GBP...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 20, 2015, 10:48:18 AM
£13.50 is still cheaper than the £15.00 I paid for the chaos lord before Christmas :'(

What I find interesting is that these are kits that should be in F***cast, but they seem to have abandoned that material(*).

The problem I'm finding with the plastic kits is that they are not painter friendly, in so much as there are areas that are almost impossible to get to. It will hopefully change as the sculptors get more familiar with the process, but at the moment they almost require painting up the pieces separately and gluing them all together afterwards. Unfortunately the kits aren't cut into pieces that facilitate that approach, so there's a lot of brush poking and touching up required  :(

(*) I know there have been attempts to retcon F***cast as a temporary measure, but it was launched with a huge fanfare, so I have serious doubts about that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 20, 2015, 10:59:36 AM
What has happened to the fur on the Skaven? They appear to have bald bodies now. Are they mole rat mutants?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 20, 2015, 11:07:10 AM
Quote from: zemjw on January 20, 2015, 10:48:18 AM
£13.50 is still cheaper than the £15.00 I paid for the chaos lord before Christmas :'(

What I find interesting is that these are kits that should be in F***cast, but they seem to have abandoned that material(*).

The problem I'm finding with the plastic kits is that they are not painter friendly, in so much as there are areas that are almost impossible to get to. It will hopefully change as the sculptors get more familiar with the process, but at the moment they almost require painting up the pieces separately and gluing them all together afterwards. Unfortunately the kits aren't cut into pieces that facilitate that approach, so there's a lot of brush poking and touching up required  :(

(*) I know there have been attempts to retcon F***cast as a temporary measure, but it was launched with a huge fanfare, so I have serious doubts about that.

If it had been f-cast then it would simply be worse.

Although they launched it with great fan-fare they did indeed make it clear at the time it was temporary - that temporary just seems to have lasted for a considerable length of time - I assume until they used as much of it up as possible. I own no f-cast miniatures, and am happy with that result - Did not enjoy the medium.

I don't mind the plastic miniatures, I do mind the price, and  it will be £15.00 soon. Ok I admit the chaos lord by then will £18.00 if its still available, and not replaced with a new version for £25.00..

Quote from: Cubs on January 20, 2015, 10:59:36 AM
What has happened to the fur on the Skaven? They appear to have bald bodies now. Are they mole rat mutants?

Probably - saves on hair care products?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 20, 2015, 11:22:33 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 20, 2015, 11:07:10 AM
Probably - saves on hair care products?


True. I used to have a pet rat and we'd shampoo him in the sink from time to time when he got stinky. He liked it about as much as dogs like having a bath, but he did like the warm air from the blow-dryer afterwards. I'm sure the Clan Skyre could invent a warpstone-powered salon for the discerning skaven.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 20, 2015, 01:44:11 PM
I suspect though in the end its just cheaper/easier to do them smooth and hairless

That or GW intend to add mole rat to their IP.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on January 20, 2015, 02:31:16 PM
(*) I know there have been attempts to retcon F***cast as a temporary measure, but it was launched with a huge fanfare, so I have serious doubts about that.

For some reason it wont let me use the quote function... Anyways it matter not.

I remember the chat around the press release of switching out from metal to resin, sorry Finecast, was a temporary measure before moving everything to plastic. I don't think these new mentions of Finecast being a temporary measure are actually new or too far from a plausible truth. As for the fanfare at launch, why wouldn't you make a big deal out of it. It would be daft not to.

In any business I've worked in, the goal is to sell whatever it is you have.

If I had a mini business that was struggling with metal and was looking long term at plastic but had a stop gap product in resin. Would I say "Hey guys, this is just temporary until we move to all plastic kits. Its a good product that'll tide us all over." I definitely wouldn't. Would I however say something like, "Hey guys, with the changes in material availability, we've decided that we don't want to lose our place as one of the best manufacturers in the market. We are no longer going to use metal but our new formulation material called Finecast which shows detail in crisp definition. Don't worry, our plastic ranges are staying around too."

Its marketing and making the best of everything you have. Whether that has worked or not is a different matter entirely
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 20, 2015, 02:48:11 PM
Exactly right Mr Brown.

Sell what u got and hype it to the max.

Or in the case of good old GW - the above and put the price up as well.

I remember some press releases and  articles about what a good formulation it was, good properties of this/that etc, as metal was just to expensive to continue with but moving over to tooling for plastic etc was to excessively expensive, the quality was not good enough yet etc, but f-cast, great stuff, as good as - nearly, completely, definitely - metal and would provide the necessary time for developing the needed techniques etc to move over to plastic....

I agree though there were mentions of temporary right from the start.

ummm yes that was good marketing... After all they did sell manage to sell it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 20, 2015, 02:56:51 PM
oh and I do like this :

http://www.avolakcastings.com/#!miniatures/vstc1=daemonic-rat

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=74824.0

Sadly I don't think its available to buy  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 20, 2015, 04:44:02 PM
Last f*cast post, promise :D

found this blogpost (http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/citadel-finecast-announcement.html) from around the time of the launch, containing the GW announcement. Sadly the GW site link is to the old site, so doesn't go anywhere. Of particular note

Quote
Last week we announced something very special - so special in fact that it's nothing less than a new era in wargaming, as we launch the highest quality miniatures the world has ever seen - Citadel Finecast

The announcement gets even more effusive after that paragraph o_o

So while there may have been rumours of it being temporary, and I apprectiate marketing have a job to do, it still rankles :(

I also found this (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/563112.page) forum post suggesting that as of Q2 2014 they have ceased f*cast production ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on January 20, 2015, 09:44:49 PM
I still don't see the big problem.

They made a switch to a new material and went into marketing overdrive to push it. They have since managed to get tooling into place for plastic and dropping said new material for all plastic production.

Would you prefer they keep the Finecast?



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 21, 2015, 08:22:22 AM
I think I see what Zem's saying as regards their launch nonsense. Enthusiastic marketing is one thing, but at some point it's just complete bullshit and, far from selling your product, it actually discredits your entire brand. We expect a certain amount of blather in advertising, but haven't consumers evolved a little past the PT Barnum style guff?

Confidence in GW took a very big hit with the F***cast fiasco and at no point have GW acknowledged the error or apologised to customers for their mistakes. A bit of honesty would no doubt have gone a long way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 21, 2015, 08:52:22 AM
Quote from: Cubs on January 21, 2015, 08:22:22 AM
I think I see what Zem's saying as regards their launch nonsense. Enthusiastic marketing is one thing, but at some point it's just complete bullshit and, far from selling your product, it actually discredits your entire brand. We expect a certain amount of blather in advertising, but haven't consumers evolved a little past the PT Barnum style guff?

Confidence in GW took a very big hit with the F***cast fiasco and at no point have GW acknowledged the error or apologised to customers for their mistakes. A bit of honesty would no doubt have gone a long way.

Nailed it.

Basically no-one really liked f-cast, and if its gone, then pretty much everybody is glad its OOP.

Now if I could actually afford to buy their plastic, or more accurately if their plastic was sensibly price, I could afford to buy new in greater quantities than none.

Which is sad, as they do make nice stuff, its just not nice enough at their pricing.

And because the pricing also creates more competition for the second hand stuff  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 21, 2015, 09:02:49 AM
I think it's because they DO make nice stuff that people get worked up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on January 21, 2015, 12:20:16 PM
All the LOTR/Hobbit releases for the last two years have been "resin".  FCast by any other name, or FW quality material I don't know as the prices have put me off.  But they're certainly not only out putting new plastics - the resin lives.

JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 21, 2015, 01:43:02 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 21, 2015, 08:52:22 AM
Basically no-one really liked f-cast, and if its gone, then pretty much everybody is glad its OOP.

I actually liked pretty much every Finecast figure I bought. It wasn't an incredible number to be sure but I never ran into any of the quality control problems that people encountered. Even at the beginning of the process when they appeared to be sending out flawed figs for whatever reason.

At the store where I work most of the Finecast returns we have are primarily for broken weapons. The figs really don't ship well in the clamshell cases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on January 21, 2015, 01:54:15 PM
Quote from: Streetline on January 21, 2015, 12:20:16 PM
All the LOTR/Hobbit releases for the last two years have been "resin".  FCast by any other name, or FW quality material I don't know as the prices have put me off.  But they're certainly not only out putting new plastics - the resin lives.

JDE

There were plastic Hobbit releases. Plastic dwarfes, the Rivendell knights, the elf rangesr etc. I also remember a (surprisingly) plastic Legolas clampack as well.

My only finecast stuff is an uruk-hai command box. Well actually two, because the first one was so low quality, the shope gave me another one for free. The second one was not much better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on January 21, 2015, 02:02:02 PM
Maybe I should have said two films then, but I don't recall any plastics coming out for DoS and there certainly haven't been any for Bo5A.  The dwarves and knights were a while back now sadly.  I was putting some of the dwarves together last night oddly, nice figures.

JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 21, 2015, 02:08:26 PM
Mirkwood rangers and palace guard, but they were probably tooled for the first film.  The switch to three movies was made quite late.

But yes, your point stands - no plastics for anything after the barrels scene, which was originally then end of the first film.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 23, 2015, 08:34:51 AM
A free Horus Heresy computer game (http://licensing.games-workshop.com/free-horus-heresy-game/) for those so inclined - iphone and android versions.

There's also a computer games sale and some other freebies - more here (http://licensing.games-workshop.com/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on January 24, 2015, 01:45:32 PM
17 QUID FOR ONE MINIATURE????????
THEY REALLY ARE BARBARIC.
 "LETS PUT THE PRICES UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP AND UP THIS WON'T OFFEND ANYONE WILL IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Necron-Overlord-2015
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on January 24, 2015, 03:34:53 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marine-Librarian

How about 18 quid...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 24, 2015, 03:47:07 PM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on January 24, 2015, 03:34:53 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marine-Librarian

How about 18 quid...?

Nice model (it's not even OTT like most other stuff we've seen the latter years), but far too expensive.

Is it just me, or haven't they bothered to dust off the model before photography?  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on January 24, 2015, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on January 24, 2015, 03:34:53 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marine-Librarian

How about 18 quid...?

When the hell was this released?
How did I miss it?

Im out. Im out, just no. There are one or two pieces I still need but I will buy online at gifts for geeks and thats it. no more.

hahaha  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on January 24, 2015, 04:37:55 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on January 24, 2015, 04:07:15 PM
Im out. Im out, just no. There are one or two pieces I still need but I will buy online at gifts for geeks and thats it. no more.

hahaha  lol

That's how most of us feel. I'll definitely never buy anything direct from them anymore either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 24, 2015, 07:36:59 PM
The marine is okay but that flying skull baby with dinnerware? WTF!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 24, 2015, 09:01:02 PM
Cyberbaby they can/have probably copyright.

If they had tried a parrot the pirates would probably have sent a cease and desist order.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 25, 2015, 04:40:34 PM
Quote from: beefcake on January 24, 2015, 07:36:59 PM
The marine is okay but that flying skull baby with dinnerware? WTF!

Yeah, but it's optional. Guess we'll able to buy those cheaply by the score from bits providers very soon  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on January 25, 2015, 08:07:42 PM
Quote from: Argonor on January 25, 2015, 04:40:34 PM
Yeah, but it's optional. Guess we'll able to buy those cheaply by the score from bits providers very soon  lol

If by cheaply you mean 3 quid....and yes, I bought one as a bit with some other stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 26, 2015, 08:58:58 AM
Regarding the price of plastic miniatures, I think you're all missing the point. These are no longer "single figures", they're "multi-part plastic kits". As such, they clearly require plastic model kit prices.

These are still (a bit) cheaper than Tamiya and Dragon kits, so I don't see what everyone's complaining about. Unlike the Tamiya kits, these can be used in tournaments, so are clearly better value :D


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 26, 2015, 09:39:06 AM
Quote from: zemjw on January 26, 2015, 08:58:58 AM
Regarding the price of plastic miniatures, I think you're all missing the point. These are no longer "single figures", they're "multi-part plastic kits". As such, they clearly require plastic model kit prices.

These are still (a bit) cheaper than Tamiya and Dragon kits, so I don't see what everyone's complaining about. Unlike the Tamiya kits, these can be used in tournaments, so are clearly better value :D





Shouldn't that be ' multi-part plastic single figure kits"?  ::)

As that seems the product direction = e.g. high quality boxed single figure sets.... I mean kits.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: LawnRanger on January 26, 2015, 11:02:45 PM
Quote from: zemjw on January 26, 2015, 08:58:58 AM
Regarding the price of plastic miniatures, I think you're all missing the point. These are no longer "single figures", they're "multi-part plastic kits". As such, they clearly require plastic model kit prices.

These are still (a bit) cheaper than Tamiya and Dragon kits, so I don't see what everyone's complaining about. Unlike the Tamiya kits, these can be used in tournaments, so are clearly better value :D




Call a spade a spade its A single figure ! don't try and dress it up, So that's why the price is so high you can use these OOber troopers in a tournament.. lol  good old GW ..

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on January 27, 2015, 10:59:41 PM
Quote from: zemjw on January 26, 2015, 08:58:58 AM
Regarding the price of plastic miniatures, I think you're all missing the point. These are no longer "single figures", they're "multi-part plastic kits". As such, they clearly require plastic model kit prices.

These are still (a bit) cheaper than Tamiya and Dragon kits, so I don't see what everyone's complaining about. Unlike the Tamiya kits, these can be used in tournaments, so are clearly better value :D

I'd agree with you except that the Perry and WGF multipart plastic kits cost about 1/3 as much (per figure) as GW.   
:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 28, 2015, 11:54:00 PM
Just read Martin Onderdonck's article in WSS about how brilliant Warhammer is and what a facepalm. Fair enough if he likes Warhammer, but his article makes hagiography look like a hatchet job (his utter whitewashing of the fact that End Times and 9th ed are shaking up WHFB because sales are plummeting, for one thing) and all his points about why it's great were the points that made me - like him, a gamer starting with GW rather than Airfix models - loathe it. What's slightly more irritating is the assertion that WAB was the best thing to happen to historical gaming, and that a lot of historical games are based on Warhammer. Slight point about the way some historical games are marketed these days, but otherwise I only see War & Conquest and Clash Of Empires as 'Warhammer's children', and one of the reasons I got into historical gaming was to find games that were nothing like Warhammer. I wasn't disappointed.

I can read plenty of this kind of unmoderated gushing on Dakka or somewhere for free, but paying £4.25 (and contributing to Martin's cheque) to read it in WSS really rubs me the wrong way!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on January 29, 2015, 07:36:11 AM
I thought the article was better than that - I have to disagree with some of his points but it wasn't quite that bad.  Overall the issue was really good, first one I've been tempted to buy after a WHS scan in some time.

But why have an editorial saying why they don't cover fantasy or sci fi, and then have a two page ode to WFB?  Illustrated with 40K pictures?  It did strike me as a bit odd.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 30, 2015, 10:27:11 PM
I am not sold on the new look harlequins

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Solitaire

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Harlequin-Troupe-Troop?_requestid=12660655

Don't know, but there's something. Not right - too clownish or is it they remind me of french mimes?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on January 30, 2015, 10:37:15 PM
I think the new harlequins look fantastic!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 30, 2015, 11:52:22 PM
The bottom middle one looks like he is prancing. Don't like the sculpted bases. Not bad sculpts (aside from poses)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 31, 2015, 12:11:19 AM
I like em. Still a bit pricey though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on January 31, 2015, 01:32:51 AM
I thought they were suosed to look like French mimes. In the original background there was even a branch of the Troupe called mimes and a character called the Master Mime. He was in charge of espionage and would do things like sneak into enemy command bunker and leave a calling card. There were no mimes in the army lists or minis tho.

Also nice to see the return of the Solitaire, and some mention of sort of almost godlike powers. This was imlicit in the background in RT but did not really get reflected in the rules- he was basically like the high warlock but with a bit more equipment in game terms. Funny enough the write up on the new solitaire page mentions infiltrating bunkers, so it is kind of like they have conflated the old master mime and solitaire into one super solitaire character. That does make sense since the mimes danced the role of daemons, and the master mime that of te most importand daemon, but the solitaire danced the role of slanesh so the master mime was kind of redundant in that sense.

Also i think they are supposed to look like they are prancing, so that is probably deliberate. According to the red compendium, the troupers are dancers. The guy in the bottom middle is an Avatar. The Avatar or high avatar dances the part of the Laughing God, who is forever ducking and diving and evading Slaanesh.

The trooper on the right has a weapon that looks suspiciously like a neuro disruptor. I approve.

Looking through the red book some of the fluff was quite apalling, especially the imperial guard. But the harlequin stuff is quite nice. Although i am not a big fan of these sculpts compared to the previous ones, it is nice to see the eldar maintaining the link with that and also with the Jes Goodwin designs.

So in terms of all that it does all seem to make sense. 16 quid for the solitaire on the other hand does not make too much sense to me...


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 31, 2015, 10:47:08 AM
They're not my cup of tea, but I think they look fine. I'm surprised that they don't look that different from the ones 20-odd years ago though ... a bit more dynamism I guess.

(http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2097eldarharlequins-02.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on January 31, 2015, 10:55:18 AM
As someone who's not all that into 40K, I do kind of like the new plastic harlies. Granted, they're a tad pricey and someone of the poses are a bit silly-looking and I didn't mind the previous ones, but they're still pretty okay. Also, I kind of want to turn that solitare into a wizard somehow...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 31, 2015, 11:25:38 AM
Quote from: Cubs on January 31, 2015, 10:47:08 AM
They're not my cup of tea, but I think they look fine. I'm surprised that they don't look that different from the ones 20-odd years ago though ... a bit more dynamism I guess.

(http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2097eldarharlequins-02.jpg)


Its probably this and being old.

Don't get me wrong they are nice sculpts but I just don't "feel" them as such.

Ah well  they definitely rate over recent skaven releases anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 31, 2015, 11:29:16 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on January 31, 2015, 01:32:51 AM
The trooper on the right has a weapon that looks suspiciously like a neuro disruptor. I approve.

Their blurb on the website mentions the box including a pair of neuro disruptors. I think we all agree that this is a pretty decent release from GW, where they don't appear to muck up the fluff for one.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 31, 2015, 12:20:41 PM
They look alright, but... Four. Quid. Each.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 31, 2015, 12:40:40 PM
So I'm the only one thinking brat gang for necromunda then  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 31, 2015, 07:43:21 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 31, 2015, 12:20:41 PM
They look alright, but... Four. Quid. Each.
Practically a bargain by recent GW standards!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 31, 2015, 07:45:29 PM
Akshulee I think it's a mark up from their £3.50 witch elves, but were there any £3.50+ plastic minis in between? Some of the orks, IIRC...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 31, 2015, 11:38:45 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on January 31, 2015, 12:40:40 PM
So I'm the only one thinking brat gang for necromunda then  :D
Awesome idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on February 01, 2015, 10:51:03 AM
I just read an article that started GW are publishing some of the old hard back any books in paperback for a reduced price. Now the book in question was the tomb kings book. The new reduced price is essential what they sell their paperbacks at anyway. Despite the rhetoric, isn't it all but assured now that the tomb kings will be gone in the new incarnation of warhammer?
Good news if you want to start a new army with a limited in store presence though. After they go, there will be lots of people ditching their old toys for new :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on February 01, 2015, 01:50:15 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on January 30, 2015, 10:37:15 PM
I think the new harlequins look fantastic!
I agree.  An excellent set of figures, lots of options and very reflective of the fluff. Ridiculously priced though.  $8 (USD) for an infantry figure?!?!

Also, does anyone know how many Harlequins an average sized unit will contain in the game?   I'm curious to see if this is one of those boxes that meets (or doesn't meet) the minimum size for a unit but you have to buy a second box to make it a useful unit in the game.  Like the Dire Avengers for instance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on February 05, 2015, 10:05:40 AM
Quote from: eilif on February 01, 2015, 01:50:15 PM
I agree.  An excellent set of figures, lots of options and very reflective of the fluff. Ridiculously priced though.  $8 (USD) for an infantry figure?!?!

Also, does anyone know how many Harlequins an average sized unit will contain in the game?   I'm curious to see if this is one of those boxes that meets (or doesn't meet) the minimum size for a unit but you have to buy a second box to make it a useful unit in the game.  Like the Dire Avengers for instance.

The minimum unit size is 5, and you can add up to 7 more per unit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 05, 2015, 10:19:21 AM
I dont know what you are all complaining about.

£4 each....no-one has noticed the free rock that comes with evry Harlequin to balance on.
It must say somewhere in the rules that Harlequins must spring from rock to rock without touching the ground.
AND just think of the possibilities of what you can do with all that excess plastic sprue once you have made up your Harlies.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on February 05, 2015, 11:40:08 AM
Quote from: Mason on February 05, 2015, 10:19:21 AM
It must say somewhere in the rules that Harlequins must spring from rock to rock without touching the ground.

It's the lava and fire ants rule.
Touch the ground and they are out.
I guess they decided not to write rules we've all been playing since primary school ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on February 06, 2015, 04:50:46 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on February 05, 2015, 11:40:08 AM
It's the lava and fire ants rule.
Touch the ground and they are out.
I guess they decided not to write rules we've all been playing since primary school ;)

They won't write them until they can be sure of the IP, then watch out, you won't be worrying about avoiding the pavement cracks, you will be busy avoiding all the cease/desist letters instead.

STill nice they are, stupid price, even if you include the 'free sprue' material for your bits box, and the excellent detail on the rocky bits to balance on.

Quote from: Kitsune on February 05, 2015, 10:05:40 AM
The minimum unit size is 5, and you can add up to 7 more per unit.

So the rules would allow up to two boxes (6 per box - as they print in big letters on the box) and the special character gizza for a full set of 13  ?

I just don't feel drawn to actually be worried about owning them. A well.

Ah well plenty of lead left in me mountain yet  :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on February 07, 2015, 01:49:25 AM
Will there be warlocks and death jesters coming out? Or have they gone the way of the dodo?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 07, 2015, 02:53:39 AM
And bikers and a dreadnought wraithlord. I've been collecting a few of he older sculpts. I've got to get a wraithlord yet and a few more of the harlequin jetbike faces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on February 07, 2015, 11:08:41 AM
Quote from: beefcake on February 07, 2015, 02:53:39 AM
And bikers and a dreadnought wraithlord. I've been collecting a few of he older sculpts. I've got to get a wraithlord yet and a few more of the harlequin jetbike faces.
The jetbikes are out.
Not too bad, if pricey.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on February 07, 2015, 01:10:13 PM
Actually I like those bikes  :D

Not paying that much for them though , even if its actually quite cheap for GW..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on February 08, 2015, 06:49:41 PM
Quote from: beefcake on February 07, 2015, 02:53:39 AM
And bikers and a dreadnought wraithlord. I've been collecting a few of he older sculpts. I've got to get a wraithlord yet and a few more of the harlequin jetbike faces.
Those old harequin jetbikes were great. But I imagine it is hard to get hold of them for reasonable money. Just this morning i saw a jetbike canopy sell for about 15 pounds on ebay. Makes these new ones seem like a bargain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 13, 2015, 08:11:48 PM
From Closet Gamer's 40K orks topic:

Quote from: Pizzagrenadier on February 13, 2015, 01:18:50 AM
I just kind of like their models. *shrug*

Me too, for the most part. :)

They just make it pretty difficult to.

Quote from: The-closet-gamer on February 13, 2015, 06:12:40 PM
Explain it to me please how a bit of polystyrene commands such a price?

'Cos GW now consider their target market (again without any market research) to be 'collectors', who will pay any price in order to own these, and I quote Tom Kirby: 'jewel-like items of wonder'.

Quote
I know that GW do look on this site for feedback.

News to me. You'd think that if they looked for feedback on forums, they'd pay a bit more attention to all the astonishment and frustration that meets their decisions, especially on forums that have more than half a dozen GW-related topics per week. Maybe then they wouldn't seem so clueless about their dwindling profits.

Quote from: Andrew May on February 13, 2015, 07:28:26 PM
:yawn:

I don't see what the issue is. Buy a box of minis for £25, assemble/convert them, base them, paint them. If you get that done in a month and I'll be impressed. I used to spend £40 a month on cigarettes!

Not really fair, Andrew. Fine if you are 'just' a collector or non-GW gamer with the disposable income to drop on a GW box that catches your fancy, once in a blue moon. I've done that myself. But if you're trying to build up an army, especially with a certain faction or conversion project; if that £25 box contains about five human-sized minis, and you need at least two for a proper unit (a complaint I often see leveled at the £3.50-a-pop witch elves); if you have to continue that kind of spending across most of your army, which practically needs to be bigger and bigger with the last few editions of both core games; and if you then have to buy the enormous, pricey rulebook, army book, and whatever additional DLC you need to make your army halfway competitive... I've seen a few people put the guts of a grand - or more - price tag on the whole thing.
That's not to mention the fact that the quality of the general and army-specific rules is highly debateable; and given how quickly 40K 7th ed appeared, and the rumours of massive shakeups for the future WFB 9th ed, nobody's really sure how much of their army or it's 'meta' might be invalidated, or when, if they even have it assembled by then with 'one box per month or longer'. I keep seeing these factors, individually or together, as the reasons many recently disillusioned GW gamers gave up on the two core games. Closet Gamer's reaction is nothing new to me.

(And yeah, I get a bit frustrated myself, with folk who have to keep up with the latest editions of the BRB and army books, but in some discussions I've seen, some gamers are [or feel] restricted to GW stores or 'that kind' of gaming group, or even just to the particular style of rules GW uses.)

Quote from: Scurv on February 13, 2015, 08:01:39 PM
third there are loads more people making orks than GW. Kromlech and mantic both spring to mind.

Yup. There are also rule sets compatible with 40K style minis, that don't demand quite so high a model count. If you don't have a previous, smaller-scale edition of 40K, I'd point out ViDe:FuCo (http://www.adpublishing.de/html/future_combat_vide.html) and Rogue Planet (http://bombshell-games.com/rogue-planet/) by our own Agis and VoodooInk, respectively. Heck, I'd point them out anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 14, 2015, 09:38:28 PM
I guess I've just got a different perception. I don't care if the miniatures are expensive because I don't want to build a big tournament busting army, I just want to buy nice minis that I like, put them together and paint them. I think it's all too easy to complain that miniatures are too expensive when you buy waaay more than you can actually find time to paint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: harleyface on February 14, 2015, 09:53:50 PM
In fact it is no cheap hobby...just look at all those unfinished projects ....
I think its not about the money....at least for me...
Like a lot of wargamer GW getted me into the hobby
I had a great time...
So i have to thank GW for that....no hard feelings
But somewhere they just lost me....
End of story... 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 15, 2015, 12:36:59 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on February 14, 2015, 09:38:28 PM
I guess I've just got a different perception. I don't care if the miniatures are expensive because I don't want to build a big tournament busting army, I just want to buy nice minis that I like, put them together and paint them. I think it's all too easy to complain that miniatures are too expensive when you buy waaay more than you can actually find time to paint.

It's worth pointing out that the relevant metric is the size of an orc army as per the GW books.

You personally might have an alternate method of buying fewer models, but anyone playing the game published by the manufacturer of the figures - any faction, not just the orcs - is obligated to invest quite heavily.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 15, 2015, 12:50:12 AM
I didn't mean to wag my finger quite so much, but, well, Fram's right. Most folk still buy these models in order to build an army and play the game. Even buying GW minis for games with somewhat smaller mini requirements, I feel a bit frustrated at how much GW charge for their products: geared for mass production and army-building, but priced like premium collector's minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Peabody on February 15, 2015, 01:19:48 AM
At our monthly club meeting last night there were a few new faces playing 40K.

I was surprised to see the incredible volume of recent models on the 'new guys' table; many had been showcased via this thread so they readily stood out. Most had been only primed black but some were fully painted...

I had to marvel for a bit, as I hosted my 15mm sci-fi game, at the amount of cash that was represented on the table across from mine.  o_o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on February 15, 2015, 01:46:06 AM
I'm not surprised a shipment of GW hasn't been held up by thugs. Now there's a great scenario.

And a 40K themed GW shop terrain piece.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on February 15, 2015, 01:53:30 AM
And it's been done:
http://galaxyinflames.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/games-workshop-in-ruins.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 15, 2015, 03:34:28 AM
Quote from: von Lucky on February 15, 2015, 01:53:30 AM
And it's been done:
http://galaxyinflames.blogspot.com.au/2011/05/games-workshop-in-ruins.html
Oh god, don't scroll down past the pictures. Reading the story of what happened to that will make you cry for humanity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 15, 2015, 03:58:34 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on February 15, 2015, 03:34:28 AM
Oh god, don't scroll down past the pictures. Reading the story of what happened to that will make you cry for humanity.
Quite horrible really. Can you just imagine the faces of glee as they did it? No sense of humour, and that was 2004!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 15, 2015, 07:12:36 AM
Glee doesn't strike me as the emotion evoked by such a humourless bunch of asshats.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 15, 2015, 07:48:29 AM
well, glee followed by hillbilly chuckles  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on February 15, 2015, 08:03:05 AM
That ruined GW shop us GENIUS!! lol lol lol lol

The only reason it wasn't counted 'in the spirit' was because it wasn't made from offical GW gothic ruins!! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 15, 2015, 11:02:58 PM
Quote from: Vermis on February 15, 2015, 12:50:12 AM
I didn't mean to wag my finger quite so much, but, well, Fram's right. Most folk still buy these models in order to build an army and play the game. Even buying GW minis for games with somewhat smaller mini requirements, I feel a bit frustrated at how much GW charge for their products: geared for mass production and army-building, but priced like premium collector's minis.

Hmm, someone needs to sort a new 40K skirmish system "all races Necromunda" if you will.

....but I neeeeed a 2000pt army to play the official tournament! I hear cried.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 16, 2015, 04:33:34 AM
That would be awesome. They did it to some degree with kill team in 4th ed if I recall correctly. Not as much of a campaign as Necromunda though. Never played it myself though
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 16, 2015, 01:41:59 PM
Inquisi-gorka-Munda 28 all 40K factions campaign or "one off" format please.
Any takers?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: baldlea on February 17, 2015, 12:40:15 PM
One Page Kill Team is a good attempt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on February 17, 2015, 02:12:19 PM
There's a Mordheim variant called World in Arms that has warbands for the main 40k armies.  Never played it, so let us know how you get on!

Search on "Mordheim World in Arms" to find the PDF.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on February 18, 2015, 08:06:32 PM
Mr Peabody,
     I'm right there with you.  Every 4th club meeting or so we leave the comfort of our homes where we usually play and head to a FLGS in the northwest suburbs.  Whether we're playing Song of Blades or 2000 point Kings of War, per our club standard our figures are always painted.  Unfortunately we're often the exception.

It's shocking to look across at the 40k club that meets on the same evening and see what's on the table.  Last time there was a player playing with 2 or 3 dreadknights.  Except they weren't dreadknights, they were black primed dreadknight legs stuck to a base.  I'd say that on any given night usually around 50% of what they put on the table is painted.  What is the point?

Quote from: Andrew May on February 15, 2015, 11:02:58 PM
Hmm, someone needs to sort a new 40K skirmish system "all races Necromunda" if you will.

....but I neeeeed a 2000pt army to play the official tournament! I hear cried.....

A system like this perhaps?
https://thegamesshed.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/in-the-emperors-name/

Of course that still doesn't help those who actually enjoy the reinforced-platoon-to-company level game that 40k is.    It's not unfair to criticize the price of a 1500 point army when that's the standard level of play for the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 03, 2015, 08:33:28 PM
Bloodthirster's get the multiversion £70 treatment

with multi  skull options, I mean head options

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Khorne-Bloodthirster-2014?_requestid=2923008
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 03, 2015, 11:17:42 PM
A thing that really makes me wonder why GW don't realize they must be something wrong, is the fact that Wayland games has now at least 2 brick-and-mortar stores/hobby centres (maybe more?), at least one of them with a bar, while GW is downsizing and closing stores.

If Wayland's suppliers can earn money selling stuff through independent retail (remember the retail mark-up that diminishes the manufacturers' profit-margin), and Wayland apparently earn enough to justify opening stores, why can't GW sell their stuff at just a tad higher prices than other companies' stuff (like they used to do), getting sufficient sales to keep their stores running?

I just don't get it.

Does anyone on here know the Wayland stores, btw?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 04, 2015, 07:00:18 AM
I remember getting an email about those. I wonder though if it is so they can stock GW stuff. They came out with those ridiculous regulations a while back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 04, 2015, 08:48:11 AM
As much as the fact that Wayland main shop/showroom, that would be nice to get to see, is also appended to their warehouse I think.

Still they don't have as many physical shops, so no overstretch problems.. Its not as if they have shops in every city/country etc to deal with.

As my own collecting/gaming is quite random and eclectic? I am not particularly into getting much GW stuff so their nonsense and who supplies it is not a big deal to me, there's plenty other sources of stuff out there, and ebay occasionally provides any GW fix I need. Usually Cheaper.

If you read GW mission statements, policies and their definition of the "GW hobby" note its not the wargaming - fantasy or sci-fi, or miniature collection hobby or painting hobby but specifically their hobby they talk of.

You can see the negativity involved and pretty much the only way they can maintain some sustained profit levels is via cutting back in areas of the business rather than expansion - its the easier way to do it without actually having to find a way to grow the business back to valid profit.

Price increases, cost cuts - eg close stores, and utilize IP via other  companies - eg license computer games/apps from them  (including games they have actively and intentionally dropped from physical product lines some years ago - dust off the IP and milk).

Add all the other stuff its clear they are not exactly in line with good business practice, and probably more aligned with a completely different plain of existence.. Still get me entertainments where I can.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure they can go years more like this, at least until the real main man actually reaches pensionable age and does not need the cash cow anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on March 04, 2015, 07:41:23 PM
If they are supposed to reap skullz why do they have huge hammers to crush them?
Or am I just sprouting hate because they are awful models?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on March 04, 2015, 07:41:37 PM
Removed a couple of posts featuring scans from WD. Do not post copyrighted material, if you please, especially GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 04, 2015, 08:33:02 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on March 04, 2015, 07:41:23 PM
If they are supposed to reap skullz why do they have huge hammers to crush them?
Or am I just sprouting hate because they are awful models?  lol

No thems not hammers, they are big blunt Axes?

Still not that impressed with them, especially the heads actually, and of course the price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on March 05, 2015, 12:14:04 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on March 04, 2015, 07:41:37 PM
Removed a couple of posts featuring scans from WD. Do not post copyrighted material, if you please, especially GW.

For future reference are people allowed to post links to sites showing these images or is a no go all together? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 05, 2015, 02:33:41 PM
I've started to hear rumblings that some of the old discontinued licences may be bought up to bring vintage Citadel models back into production. Literally, that's all I've heard and I don't know who, when or how reliable the info is. Could be a good earner.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on March 05, 2015, 04:46:55 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on March 05, 2015, 12:14:04 PM
For future reference are people allowed to post links to sites showing these images or is a no go all together? :)

Bit tricky, that one. Generally, I'd rather people do not post any links to copyrighted materials or detailed descriptions on how to find them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on March 05, 2015, 11:43:29 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 05, 2015, 02:33:41 PM
I've started to hear rumblings that some of the old discontinued licences may be bought up to bring vintage Citadel models back into production. Literally, that's all I've heard and I don't know who, when or how reliable the info is. Could be a good earner.

Foundry have quite a few ex-citadel bits I think. Oriental Heroes, Men At Arms, Mercenaries, Feudals, Pack Animals, Medieval Cannons, Wars Of Religion & (I think) some of their Vikings are ex-citadel too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 06, 2015, 07:17:03 AM
Quote from: Diakon on March 05, 2015, 11:43:29 PM
Foundry have quite a few ex-citadel bits I think. Oriental Heroes, Men At Arms, Mercenaries, Feudals, Pack Animals, Medieval Cannons, Wars Of Religion & (I think) some of their Vikings are ex-citadel too.
As far as I know they have had those for ages. I'm not sure that sets a precedent here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 06, 2015, 09:04:08 AM
Quote from: Diakon on March 05, 2015, 11:43:29 PM
Foundry have quite a few ex-citadel bits I think. Oriental Heroes, Men At Arms, Mercenaries, Feudals, Pack Animals, Medieval Cannons, Wars Of Religion & (I think) some of their Vikings are ex-citadel too.

Dates back to when GW/Citidel dropped out of historical stuff completely I think, and happily they ended up somewhere, nothing to do with any new rumours.

Still I would be greatly surprised to see any of the old fantasy miniatures/sculpts re-appear, outsourced to some other manufacturer. Thats counter to the burn/destroy policies of GW surely?

Outsourcing the IP for virtual use - eg computer games, yes we see them doing that already, but would be an interesting surprise to see physical miniatures turning up from legitimate legal source other than OOP auctions.

Then again they might do it just to mess up all the OOP auctions...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 06, 2015, 11:22:49 AM
Quote from: Diakon on March 05, 2015, 11:43:29 PM
Foundry have quite a few ex-citadel bits I think.

Yeah, there were a lot of blurred lines between companies back in the day, but Foundry was set up specifically as the forgotten child of Citadel and took a lot of the 'historical' lines over when GW wanted everything to be more specifically 'Warhammer'.

I'm talking about old Warhammer lines, Oldhammer if you will. But as I say, it's still just nods and winks right now and I don't now how far along it is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 06, 2015, 03:48:10 PM
'tis some nods and winks to keep an eye on, as if something does actually come out of them, there are so many old things it would be nice to see in production again.

Preferably at affordable non-gw modern style pricing of course....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on March 06, 2015, 04:28:49 PM
On a slight change of note regarding old Warhammer lines, RPE have now re-released the old Citadel Tom Meier Zombie Dragon for £10 which may interest some.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 06, 2015, 05:09:33 PM
Any clues where? RPE's webshop isn't the most intuitive to navigate, and I don't see the zombie dragon under the obvious 'dragons' category.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 06, 2015, 05:17:11 PM
Here you go: http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/ral-partha-fantasy-c-37/heroes-and-horrors-c-37_38/01140-zombie-dragon-p-3247.html (http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/ral-partha-fantasy-c-37/heroes-and-horrors-c-37_38/01140-zombie-dragon-p-3247.html)

At least I think that is the one right?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 06, 2015, 05:27:22 PM
No, don't think so - unless it's an earlier version.
Not bad, though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 06, 2015, 05:30:19 PM
Got it, ta!

Vanvlak: you sure? Looks like the same one on SOLegends, Collecting Citadel Minis, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 06, 2015, 05:42:11 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 06, 2015, 05:30:19 PM
Got it, ta!

Vanvlak: you sure? Looks like the same one on SOLegends, Collecting Citadel Minis, etc.
Really?
As I said, could be an older one - I'm familiar with the Marauder one.

It IS nice anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 06, 2015, 07:42:07 PM
Yep, one and the same. Price hasn't increased much at all either, however Iid it had bee sold through GW this would be at least £30

http://www.solegends.com/citdragon/drag1zombie/index.htm
http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/ral-partha-fantasy-c-37/heroes-and-horrors-c-37_38/01140-zombie-dragon-p-3247.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on March 06, 2015, 11:52:25 PM
Aye it is one the and same, RP and Citadel used to share a few licences in the 80's such as the Trogs and Lizardmen. You never know they may get a re-release at some point
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 14, 2015, 01:23:49 PM
So... any discussion about how they finally blew up the Warhammer World?

Linked 'cos of size (https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10491985_10152661130912681_4180322167720435540_n.jpg?oh=aafbe63350b766d68a9d026e1fac03a8&oe=55874C6C&__gda__=1434981848_5d1a98b1a983c398ee97ed8171032283)

Did anyone even notice?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on March 14, 2015, 02:50:05 PM
M`mm definite bullcrap, but looks ripe for a mixup with 40K but who the hell knows? or cares? o_o

Oldhammer all the way for me baby :o

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on March 14, 2015, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 14, 2015, 01:23:49 PM
So... any discussion about how they finally blew up the Warhammer World?

Linked 'cos of size (https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10491985_10152661130912681_4180322167720435540_n.jpg?oh=aafbe63350b766d68a9d026e1fac03a8&oe=55874C6C&__gda__=1434981848_5d1a98b1a983c398ee97ed8171032283)

Did anyone even notice?  lol

What is that from?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 14, 2015, 06:46:55 PM
Well, someone has to post the obvious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5R_pS0h5Qk
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 14, 2015, 08:19:43 PM
Makes me feel sad and disappointed that the world that made me interested in miniature wargames has been destroyed. I'd write something a bit harsher but it's a family friendly site.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 14, 2015, 08:29:34 PM
Fram: lol Yep, I've seen that one doing the rounds.

Quote from: Diakon on March 14, 2015, 04:43:05 PM
What is that from?

The last page from the last Warhammer: End Times book, apparently. The Archaon one, I think. Setting up for the new background, rules and minis for Warhammer 9th ed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on March 14, 2015, 08:32:33 PM
They had such an awesome world (I'm going through the old Gotrek and Felix and Guenevieve novels currently, lovely stuff. Nice and dark and irreverend), first they filed off the rough edges, then everything got sandblasted with a mix of skulls and OTT. Finally they blow it up. :( Such a waste, and ignoble end.
The old Old World was a great, compelling setting, whose loss I've lamented for several years already. :'( The current (soon to be previous) setting is, to me, a piece of excrement polished to a mirror sheen, and good riddance I say. I'm just afraid what, with the current crop of typewriter-monkeys they have now, the new setting will be like.
Either way, I'll just keep gaming/adventuring in the setting I like best, the Old Old World...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 14, 2015, 08:34:17 PM
Fantasy space marines and the rest. Just like 40k minus the fantasy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 15, 2015, 12:01:42 PM
Quote from: beefcake on March 14, 2015, 08:34:17 PM
Fantasy space marines and the rest. Just like 40k minus the fantasy.

Um..so it's just like 40K then?

Also, forgive me for being a smidge out of the loop, but how badly have they kerploded it all up?

Edit: Just checked the previous page. I was expecting a little deus ex machina, but...oh dear...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 15, 2015, 12:17:03 PM
I'm writing my own ending. It goes something like, "Bobby Ewing woke up in the shower and realised it was all a dream."

It all reminds me of a child who has ballsed up a picture or a piece of writing and then decides to rip all the paper up instead of trying to make it right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 15, 2015, 02:33:09 PM
Vlad: Yup! They kerploded it good. All except for that one glowy crumb that becomes the seed for whatever comes next. Little pocket universes inhabited by steampunk races, oscillating in the void and spilling their occupants together in savage conflict when they collide, by all accounts.
(The lizardmen got a head start from the looks of things, when the Slann said 'we're gone' and the temple cities lifted off into space... although it's not yet certain if lizardmen is one if those old races that gets cut.)

Cubs: yeah, that's pretty much GW's problem. Nobody buying your game? It's the customer's fault! It's the game's fault! Get rid of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 15, 2015, 02:42:19 PM
The current Games Workshop doesn't deserve Warhammer, just as Warhammer doesn't deserve the fate settled on it by Games Workshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on March 15, 2015, 04:40:46 PM
Too true, Vanvlak!

Vermis, the list of factors GW has blamed over the years for their games not doing well is, well, unusual to say the least:
-Beer
-Girls
-Motorcycles
-the Internets
-computer games
-International trade with the southern hemisphere
-bits sellers
-third party products
-long term customers
-having a high profile and and lucrative franchise during its peak of popularity


Absolutely without blame in their eyes:
-Games Workshop
-GW pricing strategy
-their handling of their own IP
-the (lack of) quality in their rules and background writing.
-total isolation from their fan and customer base. (With, bizarrely, an increasingly large lack of overlap between fans and customers; more and more fans have ceased being customers...)
 o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 15, 2015, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 15, 2015, 12:17:03 PM
I'm writing my own ending. It goes something like, "Bobby Ewing woke up in the shower and realised it was all a dream."

It all reminds me of a child who has ballsed up a picture or a piece of writing and then decides to rip all the paper up instead of trying to make it right.

That. But not yet, for at least ten years or so if they can go that long, then they will flip it around and go Surprise ! We were only teasing, its actually all back to the old world again! You are to far ahead of their current master plans..

Ultramarine rat ogres with chest guns! etc etc

Next all the multi-part kits will mutate into multiposable, action figures...

Still, we will all play what we want and they can go do whatever with their new warhammer fantasy 40k battles in the any millennium....

Regardless we are all bad for their business just like everything else outside the GW hobby.

Its a good thing we don't really exist in their 'world'
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on March 15, 2015, 06:25:10 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on March 15, 2015, 05:53:22 PM
Next all the multi-part kits will mutate into multiposable, action figures...

I know what you're saying, but frankly, GW wishes they could make something that good.  The average 5" Gundam kit from Bandai is snap-fit to a level of precision that GW has only recently reached, comes in different-coloured plastics so you don't need to paint it and is articulated using soft-plastic joints.  Cost in Japan is a few quid; even as an import they're about a tenner.

Master-grade Bandai kits are seriously big, snap-fit kits with articulation as fine as individual fingers and again are already coloured.  I'm looking at an 8" tall Zaku II right now - it cost £30 (£15 if you're in Japan) and pisses all over £70 GW kits.

Sadly the style on these kits is seriously 80s , but hey, so am I  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on March 15, 2015, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 15, 2015, 02:33:09 PM
Cubs: yeah, that's pretty much GW's problem. Nobody buying your game? It's the customer's fault! It's the game's fault! Get rid of it.

8th edition looks a pretty solid game, but every time I've thought about getting into it, I've run into the same problem.  My Island of Blood skaven - 40 clanrats, great models - are about a month's painting for me, and basically act as 40 hit points for one of my characters.

At a time when, as a middle-aged git, I finally have the money to spend on a big army, I no longer have the time or the inclination - other games give me better bang for my investment of time+money.  I'd rather play a game where my character had 40 hit points...

[deep voice] In a world...  that contains the perfection that is X-Wing [ok, stop that], GW desperately needs a smart intro game.  All their competitors get you playing pretty seriously with £75, and you can expand your army or change its play style for a fraction of that. Instead, GW's thinking is that everyone who would buy Warhammer skirmish already has the models - no thought of how to entice people in with something new, grow the player base, or keep existing customers interested.

They already have a game that's not far off the sweet spot - LotR/Hobbit - but that's a sorry tale if ever there was one.

It's hard to fight against something that makes money for you, even if it's killing your company.  Microsoft found, as we got into the era of apps and cloud storage, that its MS Office division was killing off any change within the company because it was so successful - you couldn't threaten their revenue stream.  So for a long time after Apple and Google started making billions off their "app ecosystem" model (and taking that money from Microsoft in the process), Microsoft was still trying to persuade people to spend £300 every three years on the same piece of desktop software they already had, with minor tweaks.  

Sound familiar? So some kudos to GW for trying something new, although the ham-fisted execution, total lack of information and potential for a massive "screw you" to their existing custmers is about par for the course.

Seriously though, X-wing is The Little Game That Got It Right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 15, 2015, 08:45:30 PM
Huh, didn't think they would actually do it. And they even mention some obscure wood elf fluff in the final seconds.
Thrush is that GW has been working very hard to make WH fantasy something less then is used to be. Without going into detail their world has contained a lot of elements I simply did not care for quite some time now, and I'm not that sad to see it go.

Heck I'm even a bit curious as to what's next. Chances are I'm going to hate it but hey I also watch bad movies for entertainment.  :P

Honestly I prefer this, the whole "We've been talking about the end of the world for decades, well here it is now" thing takes guts. (white wolf did it with their RPG's nicely) I much prefer it to them mucking up the world even further over the next years. And with centurion marine ogre gatling babies out of the way in their new setting maybe there will be room for propper oldhammer somewhere in the future. Who knows.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on March 15, 2015, 10:15:28 PM
Best case scenario:

1) Take their current and shrinking market with them into this Warhammer Blobs-Of-Reality-With-Fantasy-Space-Marines and call it the alternative timeline.

2) Meanwhile, someone at GW has noticed how popular this Oldhammer movement is now, and how much people are willing to pay for the older sculpts. For them, they will release Warhammer Classic. The Old World as it was before all the Warcrafty/Hasbro crap turned up, with the older style rules for fun and narrative games, and with lots of the old figures ranges in METAL being made available to buy again.

I can dream...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 15, 2015, 10:29:26 PM
Momotaro, YPU: 9th ed is rumoured to have a smaller model count, somewhere around God of Battles or ranked-up-40K I think, so it's assumed this is the skirmish game with a smaller buy-in cost. Personally, I'm not even opposed to the idea of orbiting universes (for the old fluff, as the apocryphal author said: "all my books are still here on the shelf, they're fine"), though I don't know if I trust GW to pull it off, same as I don't really trust them to write good rules for it or make it actual good value for money.

And yeah, that Microsoft example sounds familiar. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 15, 2015, 11:23:51 PM
Either that, or it'll be a horus heresy-style alternate game, costing infinity-billion dollars to get off the ground. If it's an alternate universe dealy, I'd be somewhat okay with it though.

...I still want my mobile weapons platform slaan back though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 16, 2015, 07:30:10 AM
I wonder what tenth edition will be like?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on March 16, 2015, 08:10:00 AM
It's whatever you and your gaming buddy write on the paper napkin just before the game... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on March 16, 2015, 08:37:35 AM
Quote
Honestly I prefer this, the whole "We've been talking about the end of the world for decades, well here it is now" thing takes guts. (white wolf did it with their RPG's nicely)

Yup, and I went from loyal white wolf costumer to loyal aftermarket costumer. Can't imgaine I was the only one.

I'm reserving final judgement on the whole deal, but I can't say I'm overly optimistic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 16, 2015, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on March 15, 2015, 06:25:10 PM
Master-grade Bandai kits are seriously big, snap-fit kits with articulation as fine as individual fingers and again are already coloured.  I'm looking at an 8" tall Zaku II right now - it cost £30 (£15 if you're in Japan) and pisses all over £70 GW kits.

Sadly the style on these kits is seriously 80s , but hey, so am I  ;D

Not saying they will be that good. and nothing wrong with some seriously 80's style stuff... :D

Including some 80s GW stuff for that matter.

Still  I don't mind changes, but sadly, in this case we are dealing with a company thats a bit naf at the implementation and execution of them well (from a customer perspective at the least), beyond product reduction and price increases.

And we know that with that change, they destroy/erase any knowledge of or use of older versions, you must if you are part of the GW Hobby and true to it, be using the current editions and fluff etc.

I don't mind adding it to the list of ways to play, I do mind that they will try and say "this is the only way play! - until 10th edition, and then that's the only way to play!.." its a bit boring really.

Guessing 10th Edition will be the beginning of Convergence - eg Warhammer! Convergence! 40K / Fantasy world bubbles  all in the same bubble-verse bouncing into each other so everybody can get some with each other. Then they don't have maintain two rulebooks, just charge for them as if they were two. Like a special offer - one for the price of two.

Skaven verses Eldar or Empire remnants verses Tau anybody?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on March 16, 2015, 09:45:45 AM
The York manager said to me and two friends the other day that when the new style comes out we can still play the previous game in store.

When asked if we could still play Mordheim he said not at all as it is no longer supported. 

Which to me sounds like when they actually release the new version you won't be able to play the old version.

The only nice manager I've found at a games workshop store was at doncaster as he is a really friendly guy and other stuff I won't put here as I don't want a GW person seeing it and getting him in trouble. He seems to really enjoy ALL of the game systems though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 16, 2015, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on March 16, 2015, 08:37:35 AM
Yup, and I went from loyal white wolf costumer to loyal aftermarket costumer. Can't imgaine I was the only one.

I'm reserving final judgement on the whole deal, but I can't say I'm overly optimistic.

I'm not saying it makes a lot of sense business wise, but then it would be silly to expect that from GW anyway right?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 16, 2015, 12:33:59 PM
Well whether it makes sense in this reality or only the bubble they are in, its ok.

Success or not, we will all watch and see. But its all good as even without investing in any of the product, they still manage to provide lots of entertainment.    :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on March 16, 2015, 02:27:16 PM
Oh wow. They're really blowing it all up? That's some "end of an era" type shizzle, that is.

Seems tempting fate to me. I mean, to my eyes it seemed like it was the sheer fandom for the WH40K fluff/world that was keeping GW successful. If they ditch that, what will compel people to put up with their prices, product quality, and belligerent indifference to their customers? Golden goose, meet boning knife.

Meanwhile, I've only just discovered this rich little vein of joy ore:
https://09cd64678bddc0198cca7fef0df8ce7b359fff2d.googledrive.com/host/0B3Z9sXPTD9rpN2owNGdVWmdFWXM/agp.html
I'm sure it's been passed around here before, but that is awesome, and it's made me an IG fan. Apparently just in time for the IG to get JJ'd out of existence.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 16, 2015, 04:45:42 PM
Haha, that's incredible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on March 16, 2015, 06:41:29 PM
Quote from: Connectamabob on March 16, 2015, 02:27:16 PM
...Meanwhile, I've only just discovered this rich little vein of joy ore:
https://09cd64678bddc0198cca7fef0df8ce7b359fff2d.googledrive.com/host/0B3Z9sXPTD9rpN2owNGdVWmdFWXM/agp.html
I'm sure it's been passed around here before, but that is awesome, and it's made me an IG fan. Apparently just in time for the IG to get JJ'd out of existence.

I really enjoyed that and very inspirational, oddly enough haha.
Its what really makes me worry about what GW are doing to their customers, there loyal bloody customers....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on March 16, 2015, 09:36:20 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 15, 2015, 10:29:26 PM
Momotaro, YPU: 9th ed is rumoured to have a smaller model count, somewhere around God of Battles or ranked-up-40K I think, so it's assumed this is the skirmish game with a smaller buy-in cost. Personally, I'm not even opposed to the idea of orbiting universes (for the old fluff, as the apocryphal author said: "all my books are still here on the shelf, they're fine"), though I don't know if I trust GW to pull it off, same as I don't really trust them to write good rules for it or make it actual good value for money.

And yeah, that Microsoft example sounds familiar. :)

I wouldn't count on "ranked up" with round bases!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 16, 2015, 09:59:21 PM
Looks like it might be just characters and war machines on round bases, as unit attachments. :) But... we'll see when 9th ed explodes onto the scene, or flops on the carpet like a dead halibut.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 17, 2015, 08:42:32 AM
mmmmm dead halibut... o_o that would be good.

Cheaper than a GW product and if its fresh enough you at least get a meal out of it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 17, 2015, 09:21:23 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on March 16, 2015, 09:36:20 PM
I wouldn't count on "ranked up" with round bases!

Why not? It lets them sell all those LOTR base trays! :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 17, 2015, 01:14:43 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 17, 2015, 09:21:23 AM
Why not? It lets them sell all those LOTR base trays! :D

With a suitable price hike, repackaging and re-invention as completely new product for the latest edition of Warhammer of course - at least then something from the LotR range will survive the abandonment...

Sounds too much like a good idea though, don't see them going with it.., more likely to go with round base converters, so you can put the round base in a square shaped one, and then rank them up in the existing style of movement tray..

Lets see wait and see what they come up with....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on March 17, 2015, 01:25:08 PM
I've just remembered an obscure bit of WH fluff....
....weren't the ancient Dragon Ogres supposed to awaken at the end of the world to do battle? I assume that was forgotten? Would have been ace...

Edit: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?406276-Dragon-Ogres-in-End-Times
It wasn't just me then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on March 17, 2015, 03:12:03 PM
Very good point. There was definitely some kind of dragon ogre Ragnarok mentioned in The Lost and the Damned. This adds further weight to the theory that it was all a dream.

I not read any of the warhammer books. Does the chaos toilet feature in any of them? I would like to think that it does.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 17, 2015, 04:08:41 PM
Ah, the Chaos Toilet and the Up The Wall Crew - not sure what GW were smoking back in those days, but it must have been the good stuff  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 17, 2015, 06:59:38 PM
Yes a mountain-sized Dragon Ogre would have been an excellent addition to end times. I don't know why they didn't they are all into big minis at the moment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 17, 2015, 07:58:53 PM
There's still plenty of time left in their end of times to shove one in.

Multi-part kit, that makes one of three different versions (e.g. different skulz/heads) of it  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 17, 2015, 08:36:01 PM
There's some interesting rumors about an official (that is to say GW proper, not Forge World) Adeptus Mechanicus release- there are leaked photos of a White Dwarf with 'All Hail Mars' written in binary.

Might get me buying...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duke Donald on March 17, 2015, 11:21:27 PM
They weren't bluffing; they really blew up the Warhammer world. Somewhat oddly this leaves me quite indifferent but I'm curious to see the reaction on Warseer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 17, 2015, 11:49:25 PM
Dr. Mathias: gotta say that sounds interesting, but I can't help but wonder how much the price tags will curb that enthusiasm.

Duke: levels of denial that send the PKE readings off the chart, I imagine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 24, 2015, 12:52:53 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on March 17, 2015, 08:36:01 PM
There's some interesting rumors about an official (that is to say GW proper, not Forge World) Adeptus Mechanicus release- there are leaked photos of a White Dwarf with 'All Hail Mars' written in binary.

Might get me buying...

I found some leaked photos of the release set for the 27th of March circulating the internets.  From the tiny pictures, I would say this release looks to be on par with the latest wood elf release, which IMO, was stellar (all notions of price aside...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 24, 2015, 03:35:23 AM
Skitarii look fine... I guess we know where Chaos got the defilers from... The dragoons/ironstriders I'm not sure about. I think John Blanche's ideas work better if someone reins them in ever so slightly. As it is, for big mechanised gun/combat platforms, I would've preferred praetorians.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 24, 2015, 08:53:14 AM
There are some much bigger pictures floating around the web...

WH40K meets Steampunk o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on March 24, 2015, 09:05:54 AM
I actually quite like those. The prizing will probably ensure that I will not fall to temptation though...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 24, 2015, 09:41:13 AM
Like. but, no, not that much like.

The pricing though, perhaps its just the 36 hour day I am currently working - its getting longer.. but the price, thats by GW standards - 31 squids for 10 minis almost not bad... if it is indeed correct. are they 15mm?  ;D

sure must need some sleep!

not touching my wallet until I have.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on March 24, 2015, 12:25:00 PM
The Mechanicus stuff is pretty cool.  Whereas the recent IG offerings have seemed to move further from the original artwork that was so evocative, the mechanicus offerings look like they could have been ripped from the RT and 2nd edition black and white artwork.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on March 24, 2015, 12:55:46 PM
I need to see more pictures of that "walking fridge" spider walker, but the infantry and those walker mounts look very nice!  :-*

About the "sneak preview" announcements by GW all being done in binary, all I can say is:
"01001101 01111001 00100000 01101000 01101111 01110110 01100101 01110010 01100011 01110010 01100001 01100110 01110100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100110 01110101 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100101 01100101 01101100 01110011 00100001"
The idea is nice, but the information that is "hidden" is really not special enough to warrant the effort of decoding it... It seems they know the rumour circuit is more effective information and they're not even trying anymore on their "official" stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 27, 2015, 07:50:10 PM
Ok I admit it

Color me tempted.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=102296+4294967072+4294965871&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440130a-flat

At least by the troops if not the walkers , at 23.50  a box thats shockingly reasonable in GW terms.

Walks not so tempting, and could not care less about the paints as such... but the Skitarii Vanguard/Ranger things hmmm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on March 27, 2015, 08:05:28 PM
They look fantastic I have to say
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: ErikB on March 27, 2015, 08:16:58 PM
Is GW copying Micro Art Studios?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/127203-Micro%20Art%20Studio%20Iron%20Brotherhood.html

http://www.gamedistribution.dk/images/image070-12-im.jpg
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 27, 2015, 08:29:56 PM
no no those are clearly not multipart plastic...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 27, 2015, 08:38:56 PM
Never thought I'd see the day that GW released AdMech as a faction.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 27, 2015, 08:53:20 PM
I agree, a very nice release.  Those troops are sweet and have tons of bits.  :-*  I might just pick up a box to help convert some 40k civilians.

But... a single transfer sheet that costs half as much as the troops box ($24CAD vs $47CAD)???

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Skitarii-Transfer-Sheet
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Phyllion on March 27, 2015, 08:55:46 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on March 27, 2015, 08:38:56 PM
Never thought I'd see the day that GW released AdMech as a faction.

Agree. I had a fully converted AdMech force once upon a time, but I nevertheless hint they'd do it, well maybe Forge a World.

The strider/Dragoons are kinda cool. Troopers I gave give or take tbh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 27, 2015, 09:49:58 PM
Quote from: Timbor on March 27, 2015, 08:53:20 PM

But... a single transfer sheet that costs half as much as the troops box ($24CAD vs $47CAD)???

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Skitarii-Transfer-Sheet

Buy it, scan it, and laser-print as many as you need - which is probably what they count on ppl doing, thus the price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 28, 2015, 12:57:37 AM
I guess that makes sense.  Or just find the one guy who bought one and beg him to send you the scanned copy...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on March 28, 2015, 03:12:47 AM
As someone already mentioned micro arts studios already had some good models for that sort of thing, so GW are just copying. :)

Not too fussed about this stuff. Or with blowing up the Warhammer world just so they can successfully become more litigious about their "intellectual" property rights.
I have not studied the recent versions of the game but they give the impression of just churning out the same old stuff in ever smaller denominations - their latest thing is a seperate army book for Khorne demon-possessed whatever they are. Soon you will need 27 "codexes" for each army.

Their miniatures all look like miniatures depicting illustrations of miniatures rather than miniature characterisations of actual things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 29, 2015, 05:58:14 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on March 27, 2015, 07:50:10 PM
Ok I admit it

Color me tempted.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=102296+4294967072+4294965871&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440130a-flat

At least by the troops if not the walkers , at 23.50  a box thats shockingly reasonable in GW terms.

Walks not so tempting, and could not care less about the paints as such... but the Skitarii Vanguard/Ranger things hmmm.

I'm not sold on the walkers either. What the heck would those little nubby arms even be good for?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on March 29, 2015, 09:58:37 AM
They used to be bigger, but evolution made them gradually smaller to assist with balance.

No, wait. That was T-Rex.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2015, 12:57:55 PM
I really like the Skitarii, but these have come years and years too late for me to be properly tempted. It's possible in the future that I may dabble with a box, but that's about it (and doubtful even then).

Shame, because I really like the models (for a change), but I just cannot afford to play GW games anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on March 29, 2015, 01:19:20 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2015, 12:57:55 PM
I really like the Skitarii, but these have come years and years too late for me to be properly tempted. It's possible in the future that I may dabble with a box, but that's about it (and doubtful even then).

Shame, because I really like the models (for a change), but I just cannot afford to play GW games anymore.

There are plenty of other games where a £24 box of ten minis with a ton of weapon options and head swaps would be an entire force.  At one level, GW makes a lot of decent boxes like that.  Everything else about their games is... not for me...

These days I paint what I like and then see if there's a game they can fit in.  I really like these and could see a small force of them in my future :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 29, 2015, 01:33:21 PM
True, GW does kind of produce a lot of instant skirmish force boxes. Heck they used to know so, with the plastics for mordheim.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2015, 03:59:08 PM
Hmm, I think a Mordheim-esque 40k skirmish game would be okay actually.

By that, I mean more balanced that Mordheim though, obviously.  ::)

Still, a couple of three-man squads, a few characters, and a hero sounds like a good basis for a fun 90min game. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 29, 2015, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on March 29, 2015, 09:58:37 AM
They used to be bigger, but evolution made them gradually smaller to assist with balance.

No, wait. That was T-Rex.

 lol

That's the thing about these walkers. I guess they're somewhat based on the old epic knight lancers (http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2126epicimperialknights.jpg), which I'm not opposed to; except that they've made the walkers too much like a mechanical animal that a rider perches on, rather than a vehicle, if you get my meaning. Doesn't entirely sit right, especially, um, sitting so high.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pijlie on March 29, 2015, 04:22:37 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2015, 03:59:08 PM
Hmm, I think a Mordheim-esque 40k skirmish game would be okay actually.

That would be Necromunda I think   lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 29, 2015, 04:35:25 PM
Quote from: Pijlie on March 29, 2015, 04:22:37 PM
That would be Necromunda I think   lol
lol
I did think those skittarii would make good base for ash waste nomads or salvager gang?
Certainly lot better than recent offerings from GW,though I do like the elder harlequins.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2015, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: Pijlie on March 29, 2015, 04:22:37 PM
That would be Necromunda I think   lol

Nah, Necromunda was just 2E with single models. I mean a different "size" of game really, more like Mordheim.

I'm sure there's room for a game with 10-15 models where there are a mix of small uinits and heroes, something bigger (and frankly less random) than Necromunda, but much smaller (and therefore more playable) than 2E.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2015, 06:11:46 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on March 29, 2015, 04:35:25 PM
lol
I did think those skittarii would make good base for ash waste nomads or salvager gang?
Certainly lot better than recent offerings from GW,though I do like the elder harlequins.

You're better off using the Chaos Cultists for those - more raggedy, and they have more suitable guns. And cheaper too. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 29, 2015, 09:45:18 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2015, 06:11:46 PM
You're better off using the Chaos Cultists for those - more raggedy, and they have more suitable guns. And cheaper too. ;)
Posh nomads  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 30, 2015, 11:57:37 AM
All this positive talk about the skitarii convinced me to have another look at them. Then I saw the price.

Sixty-six dollary doos? For ten models? Let's just pop that in the nope box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pijlie on March 30, 2015, 04:09:12 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2015, 06:10:40 PM
Nah, Necromunda was just 2E with single models. I mean a different "size" of game really, more like Mordheim.

I'm sure there's room for a game with 10-15 models where there are a mix of small uinits and heroes, something bigger (and frankly less random) than Necromunda, but much smaller (and therefore more playable) than 2E.

Maybe not for this thread, but how is Mordheim (evolving gang game in post apocalyptic medieval background with 10-15 figures per gang) essentially different from Necromunda (evolving gang game in post apocalyptic Sci fi background with 10-15 figures per gang)? Put aside some arcane edition differences?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 30, 2015, 04:55:52 PM
Very briefly then:

In Necromunda you typically have about 7-9 models, all act totally independently, and are essentially all "heroes".

In Mordheim, you typically have a slightly higher higher model count (10-15) and two tiers of troops: the henchmen and the heroes. The henchmen advance very slowly, all have to be equipped alike within their "squads", etc. Occasionally, a henchman may be promoted to hero, at which point he drops from the squad and begins to advance rather faster like the other heroes do. The heroes are all individual.

The Necromunda style skirmish is good for Inquisitor type settings where you want a band of totally individual heroes. The Mordheim style is better if you still want to retain a slight feel of troops drawn from a larger army and maintain the difference between the basic squaddies and the heroic leaders.

There are many other differences too, but they are more minor and tied to the settings. Still, the main thing about Mordheim is that it still retains the feel of squads, which is lost in Necromunda, and was the main point I was trying to make.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pijlie on March 30, 2015, 05:11:04 PM
Heroes vs henchmen sound a lot like the Leaders and Heavies vs Gangers and Juves. The latter advance slower/start at a greater disadvantage. Playing a Necromunda gang well does require playing then as a team, although you do not have to (but you want to if you like winning). I will give the Mordheim book a read. It's intriguing as I always considered Mordheim a simple fantasy Necro ripoff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 30, 2015, 05:23:50 PM
Well, they are similar (obviously), but they do have important differences too.

And no, juves are not really like henchmen at all. Henchmen are like gangers that are bought and equipped in sets, and that don't advance much. Juves are worse versions of gangers with weapons restrictions, and which gain advances very quickly indeed; at a certain level, they just automatically become regular gangers, but with more random statlines/skills than if you had just recruited full gangers normally.

Heavies and leaders are more comparable to Mordheim's heroes though.

The other thing is that advancements are controlled by the player in Mordheim, but are randomly rolled in Necromunda. This tends to create more focused warbands than the (often highly random) gangs in Necromunda.

Both systems have their merits and drawbacks; I think Mordheim is considered the more streamlined of the two though. I don't think that's a bad thing however, especially if you're not using the advances system at all and just want to play a tiny skirmish version of 40k.

Anyway, if you can find the rules for it, you should give Mordheim a go - you might like it! :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 04, 2015, 07:59:45 AM
Quote from: Scurv on April 04, 2015, 06:57:46 AM
got 5 metal chaos terminators for $15 today. Mindgames melbourne city keeping GW real
:o

But but.. you could have http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Sicarians for just $78

117 bits of plastic 117-component kit with 40mm bases... GW are going to be really sad you prefer realistic value and prices...

Have to admit, when it comes to fantasy, sci fi or not, they really live in it to the full

GW. Keeping as far away from reality as possible  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on April 04, 2015, 08:01:04 AM
Sale bin?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 04, 2015, 08:41:53 AM
I wish I had a local store that had a sale bin.  lol What a deal
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 04, 2015, 08:45:22 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 04, 2015, 08:41:53 AM
I wish I had a local store that had a sale bin.  lol What a deal
Agreed. I remember the great sale around 1998 (or 1997?)
I get the idea that Epic scale stuff went on sale across the world, but at the time I got loads of 28mm stuff too - termies at around the same price as Scurv's, and two large boxes of Praetorian Guard for the price of 1.... was that widespread too?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 04, 2015, 09:12:02 AM
Quote from: Scurv on April 04, 2015, 08:14:28 AM
yeah sale bin

I could have got an entire chaos army there for about $100.

That would be nice

Quote from: beefcake on April 04, 2015, 08:41:53 AM
I wish I had a local store that had a sale bin.  lol What a deal

+1 for that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on April 04, 2015, 11:33:31 AM
I have to admit that the other day I went into archeron a games shop in Hull and in their bitz boxes, for a fiver I got the entire £30 fellowship in plastic for a fiver. Boromir was missing but the rest where there and in good unpainted condition.

So if you are ever in Hull, drop by there haha. and give me a bell for a friendly meet up haha  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 04, 2015, 01:40:15 PM
Quote from: ErikB on March 27, 2015, 08:16:58 PM
Is GW copying Micro Art Studios?


CEASE AND DESIST!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 04, 2015, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 29, 2015, 04:20:45 PM
lol

That's the thing about these walkers. I guess they're somewhat based on the old epic knight lancers (http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2126epicimperialknights.jpg), which I'm not opposed to; except that they've made the walkers too much like a mechanical animal that a rider perches on, rather than a vehicle, if you get my meaning. Doesn't entirely sit right, especially, um, sitting so high.

I think this is what makes them good! The mechanicus aren't gonna build a machine that looks subservient to man, they're gonna build a proud independent machine!  I can imagine this think stalking it's way through martian archives, leaning down low like a scavenger and picking at ruins and scrap, the servitor at it's center just a processor to stop it being infernal.I like the idea that this machine might actually have a role besides being a support for its rider.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 05, 2015, 07:49:24 PM
Thanks scurv, I'm normally an impulse buyer though so if I can't see what I immediately dont' need... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 13, 2015, 11:42:56 PM
Hmm those dragoon walkers and the skittarii Rangers could make a lovely feudal sci fi knight army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on April 15, 2015, 10:15:58 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_6PdkKqB2I

It could look like Forge World is bringing out a Warlord Titan :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 15, 2015, 12:46:37 PM
Sounds expensive  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on April 15, 2015, 04:33:46 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on April 15, 2015, 10:15:58 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_6PdkKqB2I

It could look like Forge World is bringing out a Warlord Titan :o

 ::)

Goes a long way to confirm that GW is aiming at the collector's market. Such a model would be completely useless from a gaming perspective; you would have a hard time bringing it to a game, let alone moving it on a gaming table (if you could find one large enough).  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Steve F on April 15, 2015, 07:00:24 PM
Forgive me if this is already well-known (I find it difficult to learn what GW are doing these days), but it seems the Warhammer Fortress is no more.

Last week it was listed on-line as "Web Store only: Not in Stock."  Now it is marked "Sold Out: No Longer Available".  The tower and gateway components are still available (at least for now), but the walls are no longer listed.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Scenery?Nao=0&Nu=product.repositoryId&N=102298+4294966524&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440142a-flat (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Scenery?Nao=0&Nu=product.repositoryId&N=102298+4294966524&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440142a-flat)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 19, 2015, 04:16:33 PM
As mentioned the other day, Codex: Craftworlds is coming out ( ::) lol ). Now it looks like a more general Eldar update is coming as they also seem to have updated jetbikes: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Eldar-Windriders
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 19, 2015, 06:22:49 PM
I really like the new jetbike models and the price is better then I expected from GW. The warlock model is horrendously price as is to be expected however. I might buy these at some point though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 19, 2015, 09:18:28 PM
I really like the Autarch (not mentioning the price...), and I like the jetbikes too.

Weirdly though, they look like older sculpts (in style and detail) than their other recent stuff to me, so it leaves me wondering how long these have been ready and not released.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 20, 2015, 03:12:13 PM
So the first of the rumoured "red days" on the GW calendar approaches, and it looks like we're getting an Imperial Assassins game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K7qAWauBAkM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K7qAWauBAkM)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: olyreed on April 20, 2015, 04:58:06 PM
Looks like the LoTR and Hobbit miniatures are going web exclusive and Radagast has become oop, was gonna buy him in a couple of weeks. definatley the long slow wind down of the miniatures is starting now.. Better start buying before they are gone forever
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyBrush on April 21, 2015, 09:57:12 AM
first pic of the new assasins

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/wow-new-imperial-assassin-minis.html

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Rantanplan/46545345.jpg)

Not a fan of this crazy dynamic poses but they look great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 21, 2015, 10:27:55 AM
It says it's for a new game. But yes I bet it is also for 40k as well. I'm not a fan of the bases combined with the poses.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 21, 2015, 11:16:39 AM
I can see a use for some of those (depending on the price, of course), but the bases will have to go o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 21, 2015, 12:14:21 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 21, 2015, 10:27:55 AM
It says it's for a new game. But yes I bet it is also for 40k as well. I'm not a fan of the bases combined with the poses.

Rumour is that the game will be a limited release and the figures will be available separately afterwards.  The magazine cover shown by FunkyBrush says that stats for 40k are inside.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 21, 2015, 12:39:03 PM
So... These are still subject to 40K's true-line-of-sight rule...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 21, 2015, 03:16:15 PM
Ugh, I really dislike large scenic items integrated with the figure. I never painted my 3rd edition Space Hulk genestealers, I can't get past support girders moving along with an alien down an open corridor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 21, 2015, 03:34:35 PM
I have to admit that I rather like those (price-wise though...).

In terms of how dynamic they are, I have no problems with them as long as they are not too "integrated" into the scenic elements (so that I can remove them and substitute something appropriate if I want to).

Frankly I'm happy to see this dynamism, since it's one of the great things that plastic models allow, and which I rarely seen taken advantage of.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kings Curse on April 21, 2015, 04:19:09 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on April 21, 2015, 12:14:21 PM
Rumour is that the game will be a limited release and the figures will be available separately afterwards.  The magazine cover shown by FunkyBrush says that stats for 40k are inside.

And the enemies appear to be repackaged Chaos Marine models, which feels a bit uninspired. Had it come with original sculpts I might have considered getting it, but now it's a pass for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on April 22, 2015, 07:30:49 AM
I was interested in this game (but fearing the price), mainly because of the opportunity to get a full set of the various assassins. Seeing the pic, I'm suddenly more interested in the board pieces and extra cultists... (and still fearing the price). Integrated terrain/architecture, especially to such an egregious extent as these is very off putting to me. :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Engel on April 22, 2015, 01:11:35 PM

(http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/CodexCraftworlds.jpg)

New Eldar codex incomming.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/04/eldar-rules-confirmed-at-last.html


I think this sums it up rather good.  lol
https://youtu.be/zRFxJcG9qT0
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 22, 2015, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: Engel on April 22, 2015, 01:11:35 PM
I think this sums it up rather good.  lol
https://youtu.be/zRFxJcG9qT0

I don't know if it's improved by understanding... Er... Spanish? But after the 1:30 mark it doesn't matter. :D

I see the BOLS points are almost, if not completely, about listbuilding. I shouldn't be surprised but it's still a bit depressing.
From the rumblings on Dakka, this new codex makes people nostalgic for the days of Mat Ward. Next drop in GW sales in three... two... one....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on April 22, 2015, 10:28:32 PM
The one on the right looks like the original archetype, Camaru the assasin, perhaps about to take on the rebellious Lord of Okku. Just replace the oversize weapons with some digital needlers and stuff and she more or less fits the bill I suppose.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 23, 2015, 12:10:55 AM
I showed some of my friends the assassins image and this was part of the conversation that followed:

Mark: I'm imagining that skull dude doing parkour everywhere with a haunted quarter pipe following him
Lyndon: Did you bring your skaaaateboaaaaaaard?

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on April 23, 2015, 01:46:08 PM
Did the eldar really need a new codex? The old one had a pretty sweet cover (which was as close as I ever got to it, being a dirty fantasy peasant and all) and it came out recently, or do they just need a new one because the harlies are getting one for four or so units?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 23, 2015, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: Scurv on April 23, 2015, 07:41:16 AM
well more evidence that GW is switching into computer gaming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=225&v=7i4d3ignBNQ

nice clip regardless of the game which has about a 50/50% of being good and 100% chance of being excellent once the modders fix it.

Cool trailer! I dunno about "switching" into computer gaming but they are certainly way more liberal with the license now. They seem to care little for the integrity of their own settings with their newer stuff, so they are obviously less bothered about others messing with it. Still, this could be fun. I'm hoping it's all set pre-End Times-nonsense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on April 24, 2015, 01:16:52 AM
Quote from: Gibby on April 23, 2015, 10:18:48 PM
Cool trailer! I dunno about "switching" into computer gaming but they are certainly way more liberal with the license now. They seem to care little for the integrity of their own settings with their newer stuff, so they are obviously less bothered about others messing with it. Still, this could be fun. I'm hoping it's all set pre-End Times-nonsense.


Hey, if they include lizardmen, I'll take eight!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 24, 2015, 07:49:42 AM
Quote from: Gibby on April 23, 2015, 10:18:48 PM
Cool trailer! I dunno about "switching" into computer gaming but they are certainly way more liberal with the license now. They seem to care little for the integrity of their own settings with their newer stuff, so they are obviously less bothered about others messing with it. Still, this could be fun. I'm hoping it's all set pre-End Times-nonsense.
Also handing it over to a company who make historical games and at least somewhat try at historical accuracy in those might be a good idea, since that kind of practice translates well into faithfully representing a existing setting.
Considering how accurate many of the characters in that trailer are to actual models. I mean karl Franz has his beaky helmet with over the top plumage, and deathclaw has that elaborate breastplate thing. I'm digging it. As far as I can see they are sticking more the the part of the world many of us actually like and less to the "we need another monster for this 3 options in one box" world of today.

So what I am saying in short is that I am thoroughly setting myself up to be disappointed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 24, 2015, 08:31:52 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on April 23, 2015, 01:46:08 PM
Did the eldar really need a new codex? The old one had a pretty sweet cover (which was as close as I ever got to it, being a dirty fantasy peasant and all) and it came out recently, or do they just need a new one because the harlies are getting one for four or so units?

What are you saying - it was at least last calender year? ancient and out of date in GW years..

Quote from: Gibby on April 23, 2015, 10:18:48 PM
Cool trailer! I dunno about "switching" into computer gaming but they are certainly way more liberal with the license now. They seem to care little for the integrity of their own settings with their newer stuff, so they are obviously less bothered about others messing with it. Still, this could be fun. I'm hoping it's all set pre-End Times-nonsense.

Noo I cannot completely agree... ::) they have not cared about their own (settings) integrity for a very long time... However protecting it from others, respecting it or not, oh that will always be there..

Still might be fun once released, patched and modded etc.

Quote from: YPU on April 24, 2015, 07:49:42 AM

So what I am saying in short is that I am thoroughly setting myself up to be disappointed.

+1 for that. all the way, but see previous as Scurv already mentioned

Quote from: Scurv on April 23, 2015, 07:41:16 AM
well more evidence that GW is switching into computer gaming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=225&v=7i4d3ignBNQ

nice clip regardless of the game which has about a 50/50% of being good and 100% chance of being excellent once the modders fix it.

Same as most of the total war series really, get better after the fans get to work on them.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 24, 2015, 08:54:50 AM
Well I'll get it when the price comes down a bit. Mass battles of total war are always fun. I just hope they have both single and multiplayer options.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on April 25, 2015, 11:19:09 AM
Quote from: Vermis on April 22, 2015, 02:56:02 PM
I don't know if it's improved by understanding... Er... Spanish? But after the 1:30 mark it doesn't matter. :D


Try toggeling the sub texts. Its hillarious.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 25, 2015, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Knightofspades on April 25, 2015, 11:19:09 AM
Try toggeling the sub texts. Its hillarious.

That's brilliant  :D ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 25, 2015, 01:37:41 PM
Ooooh...

...

...

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 30, 2015, 08:48:21 AM
The Assassins game is up for pre-order on the GW site (http://www.games-workshop.com/Assassinorum-Execution-Force). Ships 2nd May.

Usual "limited edition" nonsense and the fairly standard (if too expensive) £75.00 ($125.00) price tag

In addition to the Parkour figures you get 15 Chaos Cultists and 3 Chaos Space Marines
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 30, 2015, 08:51:24 AM
So it's prpbably cheaper buying this game rather than just the minis by themselves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 30, 2015, 08:58:44 AM
Lol didn't read that bit. Should have expected highly limited edition (except for when we find thousands more under the CEOs mattress)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 30, 2015, 09:10:44 AM
Is this the start of a new GW strategy - a few exclusive miniatures, a bunch of old ones, and a game that will never be supported or expanded

It does not bode well  :'(

edit: just realised that it's not really new for them, although I think the inclusion of old figures is. Guess they're just jumping on the boardgames bandwagon...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on April 30, 2015, 09:15:39 AM
"Limited edition" from GW means the same as "Pro painted" does on Ebay..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 30, 2015, 05:45:30 PM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 01, 2015, 06:52:19 AM
At least pro painted is a self fulfilling prophecy, the moment your buying it the guy is getting paid for his painting, making him "pro" Of course that says nothing about skill.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on May 01, 2015, 06:54:31 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on April 30, 2015, 09:15:39 AM
"Limited edition" from GW means the same as "Pro painted" does on Ebay..
Or in some cases oop
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on May 01, 2015, 07:14:16 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on April 30, 2015, 09:15:39 AM
"Limited edition" from GW means the same as "Pro painted" does on Ebay..

Genius! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on May 01, 2015, 08:49:55 AM
Quote from: Scurv on April 30, 2015, 08:55:13 AM
love this bit

This is available while stocks last - given the quality of the game, and that this is the only place to get the Imperial Assassin miniatures deployable in Warhammer 40,000, we don’t expect these stocks to last long at all! Order Assassinorum Execution Force now to avoid missing out.

Reads to me as "the game is a bit shite and then some but if you want our 28mm assassin crack, fanboy u gonna pony up big time."

Only place to get assassins for 40K?

What about these then: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=102296+4294966276&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440130a-flat
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 01, 2015, 09:02:54 AM
Quote from: Kitsune on May 01, 2015, 08:49:55 AM
Only place to get assassins for 40K?

What about these then: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=102296+4294966276&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440130a-flat


What!!! why would you want them old ones without  boxed limited edition game. next you will be not wanting the not new included chaos marines, but the separately sold versions.

Clearly they are inferior, old, Not the same ones, as they don't have integral scenery attached bases, aaaannnnd most likely will be OOP soon....

and probably the next version of the rules likely says they must be the ones from the boxed limited edition set to be valid for play....


and pro-painted  ::)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 01, 2015, 09:15:24 AM
Great, an old Chaos Lord model (which, along with the Assassins themselves, is really not in anyway a "boardgame" model in terms of assembly), re-used models from DV, and some snap-fit Chaos Marines from before the current box of Chaos Marines... Stunning value!  o_o

It's a thinly-disguised way of getting folks to buy all four assassins now (with the game as "packaging"), rather than just maybe buying the one or two they want later on when they inevitably get released in individual plastic clamshells.

The funniest thing is that I can't see many folks buying this for the game - at least judging by the scores of comments on dedicated forums!

Just bizarre.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 01, 2015, 11:17:19 AM
Once bitten by Dreadfleet... Though there are still people who think that's a fun, well-written game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on May 01, 2015, 01:10:05 PM
Quote from: Vermis on May 01, 2015, 11:17:19 AM
Once bitten by Dreadfleet... Though there are still people who think that's a fun, well-written game.
Hehe... Mine is still in the closet, everything on the sprues. But then I didn't buy it as a stand-alone game, for me it is a bitz pack for Man O'War. The comment I heard about it the most is that it's an okay-ish game with dismal replayability, but they sure made it look pretty. I believe the LGS still has one or two copies on the shelves.
The Assassin box set (I can't even remember it's proper name, that's a bad sign) looks to be even less of a "proper" game.
GW in a nutshell: skulls, gimmicks and manipulative totalitarianism...

The only way they'll get me to spend money on a "limited edition"  lol boxed game is if they do a proper re-release of Necromunda (with terrain!) or Warhammer Quest (both 20 year old games by now).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 01, 2015, 10:45:09 PM
Amen to that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 02, 2015, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: Modhail on May 01, 2015, 01:10:05 PM
The only way they'll get me to spend money on a "limited edition"  lol boxed game is if they do a proper re-release of Necromunda (with terrain!) or Warhammer Quest (both 20 year old games by now).

If they are desperate enough, and they think it will up the margin selling it at their modern pricing level, I am sure they will look under the right sofa and find some boxes... labelled Space Hulk  :D

Seriously though, its gonna be an IP sell game - after all there's Mordheim as a computer game now. so....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 03, 2015, 02:15:58 AM
I'd like to see necromunda done in the style of battlefield. Respawning gangers but first person shooter. Different games with different abilities.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on May 03, 2015, 02:57:54 AM
When White Dwarf comes out with some type of overpower rules for the assassins models from the game the tournament scene will buy the game in droves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 03, 2015, 05:31:54 AM
I know it wouldn't fit the original gameplay, but I'd love to see it FPS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on May 03, 2015, 09:36:45 AM
There's a Space Hulk co-op FPS being developed, that looks to be quite promising. Have yet to see actual gameplay footage though.
I think Necromunda is a hard nut to crack as a game; the terrain and setting screams fps but the theme (gang-based survival and progression) lends itself more to an (xcom sized) real-time or turn-based strategy game or even a Torchlight/Diablo-alike co-op. But then you get close to mmo structures with clans and such.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 03, 2015, 12:35:39 PM
The new Imperial Knights are out.  Looks like a much bigger range of options on an extra sprue this time round; only a £10 price increase.  They do look seriously lovely kits, although whether they're good gaming pieces is another matter.

There's one deal where, if you buy a bundle of five of them (£475, no discount), you get a free sheet of special rules for them!  Limted to 100 copies only!

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Exalted-Court-House-Terryn-Rules-Bundle (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Exalted-Court-House-Terryn-Rules-Bundle)

This may be the stupidest thing I've ever seen - not limited edition rulebooks, but limited edition RULES.

Basically, they're selling to Saudi princes and poker "whales" now...

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 03, 2015, 02:14:23 PM
I just saw the warden on the GW main page, in passing. Bit disappointed that it's the standard 40K knight with an extra rocket launcher rather than ye olde robotic-front-half-of-a-tortoise from past Epic incarnations.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 03, 2015, 02:55:48 PM
Quote from: Vermis on May 03, 2015, 02:14:23 PM
I just saw the warden on the GW main page, in passing. Bit disappointed that it's the standard 40K knight with an extra rocket launcher rather than ye olde robotic-front-half-of-a-tortoise from past Epic incarnations.
Agreed  :(
In fact there's a Forgeworld Chaos beastie which is closer in appearance to the old Epic warden than this, although it needs a different set of legs and a missile launcher.

(http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/large/bslaughterer.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 03, 2015, 03:28:51 PM
Quote from: Vermis on May 03, 2015, 02:14:23 PM
I just saw the warden on the GW main page, in passing. Bit disappointed that it's the standard 40K knight with an extra rocket launcher rather than ye olde robotic-front-half-of-a-tortoise from past Epic incarnations.

Thats a shame. so basically rather than develop different models to properly represent previous iterations we get the same size fits all with an extra bits sprew?

Will stick with me epic ones then, once I remember where I put them...

I liked the way the epic scale knights had some variance in design, ah well, guess that means they will all be exactly the same then. That's just expensive, cheap cop-out boring. Limited edition exclusive web bundle rules ooooh, and only in English!!! English!!! aaah the UKIP party will want some of that.

As for Necromunda, its either co-op fps with gangs/clans or whatever, so mulitplayer... or its strategy, and something similar to the recent Mordheim would fit, as again its gangs etc.

Anyway they will out what they think will get money so proobably one of everything by selling the IP to all available different developers accordingly.

Then we will likely end up with  monopoly and candy crush style versions to. hmm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on May 03, 2015, 04:44:18 PM
I'd actually quite like a Fallout/Farcry-esque sandbox game for Necromunda. Imagine how awesome that would be. I'm already sorted for turn based strategy games with Fallout Tactics and X-Com. :D

Re: Knights. Most 40k players game on a 6'x4' table so they are way too big for 40k.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 06, 2015, 12:39:15 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on May 03, 2015, 12:35:39 PM
The new Imperial Knights are out.  Looks like a much bigger range of options on an extra sprue this time round; only a £10 price increase.  They do look seriously lovely kits, although whether they're good gaming pieces is another matter.

Well, not exactly. Think about it: you're paying more for this kit than the previous one, but you still have to "buy" the previous kit's weapons that you likely won't be using. So if it's £10 for a new sprue of weapons, then you're also paying a nominal £10 for the sprue you're not using as well. This makes the kit effectively £20 more expensive than before (i.e., an increase of roughly 23.5%). To distract you from this, GW have released some profiles that mix-and-match both weapons sets.

Quote from: Vermis on May 03, 2015, 02:14:23 PM
I just saw the warden on the GW main page, in passing. Bit disappointed that it's the standard 40K knight with an extra rocket launcher rather than ye olde robotic-front-half-of-a-tortoise from past Epic incarnations.

I think that even a "support" chassis based on the Titan Legions knights (Castellans and Crusaders) would have been cool, and would have still been similar enough to allow crossover with the first kit.

Quote from: Tactalvanic on May 03, 2015, 03:28:51 PM
Thats a shame. so basically rather than develop different models to properly represent previous iterations we get the same size fits all with an extra bits sprew?

Yep.

Plus, following how they re-released the Baneblade to include the Shadow Sword sprues, I'd expect the first Knight kit to be discontinued as this new kit will allow you to build all current Knight versions to date.  ::)

And, the limited edition free rules with the web bundle? Don't worry, they'll be invalidated soon enough along with Codex: Imperial Knights when the new version of Codex: Imperial Knight Households gets released and supercedes them both!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 06, 2015, 04:14:50 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 06, 2015, 12:39:15 PM
Well, not exactly. Think about it: you're paying more for this kit than the previous one, but you still have to "buy" the previous kit's weapons that you likely won't be using. So if it's £10 for a new sprue of weapons, then you're also paying a nominal £10 for the sprue you're not using as well. This makes the kit effectively £20 more expensive than before (i.e., an increase of roughly 23.5%). To distract you from this, GW have released some profiles that mix-and-match both weapons sets.

Magnets - why limit yourself to one build?  I tend to magnetise even things like GW heavy weapons teams, and in 40k you'll want to tinker with loadouts.

Quote
I think that even a "support" chassis based on the Titan Legions knights (Castellans and Crusaders) would have been cool, and would have still been similar enough to allow crossover with the first kit.

Yeah, definitely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on May 06, 2015, 07:41:00 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on May 06, 2015, 04:14:50 PM
Magnets - why limit yourself to one build?  I tend to magnetise even things like GW heavy weapons teams, and in 40k you'll want to tinker with loadouts.

Yeah, definitely.

These magnets you speak of sound blasphemous, you mean there is a way of not having to purchase each different variety?  lol lol

I have only ever magnetised one item and that was for someone on request as I dont play as much, I can however see for big gamers how this technique is SOOOOOOOO useful and should really be utilised by everyone in the hobby. just make sure you get good magnets haha...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 07, 2015, 11:03:44 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on May 06, 2015, 04:14:50 PM
Magnets - why limit yourself to one build?

The way the weapons are designed makes it hard to magnetise all the options. It's almost as if it was designed to be purposely difficult!  ::)

It is doable though, if you're willing to sink in the effort; you have to accept that swapping the weapons will be a bit more involved than usual magnetised miniatures too. Good example of the work involved here (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287909-magnetizing-the-imperial-knight-weapon-arm/).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 07, 2015, 12:04:52 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 07, 2015, 11:03:44 AM
The way the weapons are designed makes it hard to magnetise all the options. It's almost as if it was designed to be purposely difficult!  ::)

I cannot even imagine that GW would think of doing such a thing  :D

Quote
It is doable though, if you're willing to sink in the effort; you have to accept that swapping the weapons will be a bit more involved than usual magnetised miniatures too. Good example of the work involved here (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287909-magnetizing-the-imperial-knight-weapon-arm/).

Yeah, that's quite involved, isn't it?  Doable though, and on a kit of that size and price I'd be looking to spend tens of hours assembling and painting it to do the model justice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 07, 2015, 12:49:13 PM
 :D Probably see it mentioned in the next financial statement, along with the other regular reasons as to why the revenue is falling.  :D

People not buying enough individual kits to represent all the load-out options, but instead, modifying GW kits to be more flexible/usable.

They are not GW hobby magnets, therefore you shouldn't do it. otherwise they would sell them to you wouldn't they? Like extra skulls?

Bad people/customers, bad. why else would they provide a special purchase option to get 5 in one click?

 o_o The extra bits are meant to go in your bits box and stay there, not on the end of magnets... o_o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 10, 2015, 08:37:33 AM
Sigh.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Kastelan-Robots

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Kastelan-Web-Formation


£42 option for 2 or £420 for twenty.

Nice models but..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 10, 2015, 08:40:47 AM
I like those. Good for use outside of 40k such as near future robots.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 10, 2015, 08:49:41 AM
But they've spelt it wrong  ::)

'C' not 'K' you tossers  ;D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 10, 2015, 08:52:26 AM
Quote from: beefcake on May 10, 2015, 08:40:47 AM
I like those. Good for use outside of 40k such as near future robots.
Me too, and it's nice to see the ancient ad mech robots back in the 40K universe. I'd leave the back-mounted gun out, though, although it was a feature of the old generation 40k robots too.
And Jimbibbly is correct about the spelling - unless they're pre-empting their use by orks, of course - which was possiblein the good old days......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 10, 2015, 09:02:17 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on May 10, 2015, 08:49:41 AM
But they've spelt it wrong  ::)

'C' not 'K' you tossers  ;D

cheers

James
But it's kool spelling it that way.

Probably helps separate it from the vampire castellan they have.

Edit: which after checking is no longer there. Other castellans are however.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Steve F on May 10, 2015, 09:19:26 AM
It's probably easier to trademark if its not in the dictionary.  Those are the first new GW models I've unreservedly liked the look of since the plastic spirit host came out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on May 10, 2015, 09:21:30 AM
Not that much 'skullz' and shit to remove either  :)

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on May 10, 2015, 11:32:35 AM
Just to deviate,I noticed the empire free company's been out of stock for awhile now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 10, 2015, 11:46:22 AM
I reckon they are not making any more stock of the current line and will wait until most of it is all sold out then bring in the new edition of WFB.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on May 10, 2015, 12:08:55 PM
Well, it really was the best value plastic kit they did. Can't have that upsetting the rest of the catalogue...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on May 10, 2015, 12:11:03 PM
Ah well,will have took elsewhere for some conversion fodder,then ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 10, 2015, 03:11:02 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on May 10, 2015, 12:11:03 PM
Ah well,will have took elsewhere for some conversion fodder,then ::)

Check out the Perry's War of the Roses boxes - great value and similar/better models. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 10, 2015, 03:23:55 PM
Quote from: Gibby on May 10, 2015, 12:08:55 PM
Well, it really was the best value plastic kit they did. Can't have that upsetting the rest of the catalogue...

Shame.

off to the land of pro-painted and OOP, for them then.

Still. It's about the GW hobby not "value" remember.

Expect something else multi-part, different troop types possible, with less individual actual troops, soon, with the bonus of it not involving value.

e.g. "This multi-part kit contains enough multi-parts to make one of 20 different empire troop types. Horse sold seperately, extra skulls not included either"
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on May 10, 2015, 05:09:32 PM
I know of the perry stuff,wanted something bit chunkier.to look right with what I already have.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on May 10, 2015, 07:17:21 PM
The new plastic set for Frostgrave looks like it will fill the role of the Free Company set.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on May 10, 2015, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on May 10, 2015, 07:17:21 PM
The new plastic set for Frostgrave looks like it will fill the role of the Free Company set.


Never heard of those before,I don't mind the 2 on the front left,but find the others comical looking,I might just get some wargames factory colonial militia and hammer of gods Saxon fyrds or something else,And mix them up.

Edit to add ,as it said temporary out of stock ,I registered with gw for a stock notification,so will see if it returns or not.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 11, 2015, 10:15:26 PM
Forty two quid for two wee plastic robots for the luvva Mike...

Quote
This ninety-five component multi-part plastic kit

They say that as if it's a good thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on May 12, 2015, 03:34:20 PM
Anyone else getting a Hulkbuster armour vibe of the new robots?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 12, 2015, 04:11:26 PM


hmmm nice idea, hulkbuster  or whatever toys might be cheaper to re-purpose if they scale not to bad.

Less parts to.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 12, 2015, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on May 10, 2015, 11:32:35 AM
Just to deviate,I noticed the empire free company's been out of stock for awhile now.

So what used to be the mordheim sprue is OOP now, and frostgrave just announced their pasts. Nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 16, 2015, 12:48:41 AM
Looks like 40k is spreading itself out into the wider community now ;)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/human-rights-act-to-be-replaced-with-warhammer-rulebook-2015051598341
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on May 16, 2015, 02:27:53 AM
Quote from: beefcake on May 16, 2015, 12:48:41 AM
Looks like 40k is spreading itself out into the wider community now ;)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/human-rights-act-to-be-replaced-with-warhammer-rulebook-2015051598341

I love the line: “We make our rolls behind the books so you can’t see, but it’s all perfectly fair.”
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on May 16, 2015, 04:29:25 PM
When they want to. They sure can put on a display.
http://battlebunnies.blogspot.dk/2015/05/exhibition-pics.html

There are some seriously cool stuff here. Just do not think what cost would be for mere mortals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on May 16, 2015, 05:27:23 PM
Holy crap, that's crazy.
I wouldn't mind having a look around that myself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 17, 2015, 07:33:41 PM
Probably late to the party, but I've just discovered, from the plinth of the new FW Roboute Guilliman figure, that the Ultramarines owned a world called "Prandium".  It was devoured by the Tyranids of Hive Fleet Behemoth.

"Prandium" is, of course, Latin for "lunch"  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on May 17, 2015, 07:44:29 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on May 17, 2015, 07:33:41 PM
Probably late to the party, but I've just discovered, from the plinth of the new FW Roboute Guilliman figure, that the Ultramarines owned a world called "Prandium".  It was devoured by the Tyranids of Hive Fleet Behemoth.

"Prandium" is, of course, Latin for "lunch"  :D

Oh how I miss this kind of humour in GW fluff. Pure 2000AD. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 18, 2015, 08:38:31 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on May 16, 2015, 04:29:25 PM
When they want to. They sure can put on a display.
http://battlebunnies.blogspot.dk/2015/05/exhibition-pics.html

There are some seriously cool stuff here. Just do not think what cost would be for mere mortals.

That goes a long way to explaining why some very pricey  stuff sells out so quickly  ;D


Cool and fantastic work but wow thats a lot of money on those tables - at GW prices anyway...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 21, 2015, 10:07:38 PM
http://www.beastsofwar.com/games-workshop/games-workshops-dark-future-digital-reboot/

DUN DUNA NAAA!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 21, 2015, 10:54:29 PM
Saw this today:

https://www.fool.co.uk/investing/company-comment/2015/04/24/premium-research-should-i-buy-niche-leader-games-workshop-plc-or-international-behemoth-tesco-plc/

In a nutshell: 'Games Workshop is more stable right now, but in comparison new Tesco management seems to have a clue what it's doing.'
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mick_in_Switzerland on May 22, 2015, 09:34:28 AM
Vermis,

Thank-you for posting that financial report  - I think that they understand Games Worksop's problems better than GW do!

Mick

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 22, 2015, 12:22:43 PM
Akshulee, that version seems to require you to sign up for something or other. The full version's also posted here, with no email demands.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/premium-research-buy-niche-leader-151012701.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on May 25, 2015, 06:31:40 PM
Went to warhammer world the other day. IMO it was pretty nice. They still have a small collection of 80s stuff (not sure how much they had before) which was cool to see. That giant spess m'hrens diorama is indeed pretty.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 26, 2015, 06:55:19 AM
I admit this may have been posted elsewhere and I missed it  ??? : a GW tabletop game, Forbidden Stars:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/forbidden-stars/ (https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/forbidden-stars/)

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/forbidden-stars/products/forbidden-stars-core-set/ (https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/forbidden-stars/products/forbidden-stars-core-set/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 27, 2015, 10:05:36 AM
So, for anyone who thought that the Space Marine Librarian in plastic at £18 was expensive, I see they've now released a Tech Priest for £22... I mean, even for a casual one-off purchase, that is waaay outside any sort of "impulse-" budget!

I do like the model though, and the various alternate bits on it are pretty cool. I will have to be content with just looking at pictures of the model though, which at least has the side-benefit of not adding the unpainted model pile!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 27, 2015, 11:36:27 AM
I was in my local store on Friday (needed some paint) and had a look around before purchasing. They had a Dark Eldar figure that I quite liked, but it was £14, so I put it back. That sort of money is acceptable for a boxed set, but not for a single figure (and certainly not for an impluse buy). It's not like you even get any extra bits to add to the bits box.

As for the paint, I bought the pot and, while putting it away, found I had a full pot of the equivalent old colour. Given that they charge £2.40 for a pot, I was not happy :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 27, 2015, 11:56:32 AM
Thats the cost of multi-part GW kits..

 o_o o_o o_o o_o o_o

other companies put more than one multi-part model in each box, but I suspect they are just being old fashioned - they also charge 20 ish quid a box or so don't they?

So say 24 non heroic scale Perry's plastic, non-GW hobby multi-part kit (or 36 or whatever - its still more than one).

Or the more modern GW hobby multi-part kit with one model in it.

So currently the 'old fashioned' suppliers sell you a box that costs more, with, er, more in it or you can get the GW thing for slightly less for er, less content. But you need to be quick because that 18 quid will be 22 squids by August.

Just saying.

 o_o o_o o_o o_o

So they are getting there - one model heroic scale mini, per box, same price you would have paid for 5 or more not that long ago. Progress!!

Soon GW will be the down to selling parts at this rate, individually boxed pieces, to assemble the multi-part kit of your choice.

Actually in the case of most of the blurds now '95 multipart kit' thats a lot of parts to push the price up on sold individually....

No wonder they want to get rid of bits sellers...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 27, 2015, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: zemjw on May 27, 2015, 11:36:27 AM
As for the paint, I bought the pot and, while putting it away, found I had a full pot of the equivalent old colour. Given that they charge £2.40 for a pot, I was not happy :'(

That's a bargain! We pay DKK 30 per pot. Should be £2.86 at today's exchange rate.  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on May 27, 2015, 12:14:12 PM
On the slight bright side, it seems there has never been a better time to sell my old Specialist Games stuff, as soon as I post some on Oldhammer crowds gather in my PM box. Still isn't enough to pay for the new stuff though, so expensive  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 27, 2015, 01:13:12 PM
Well, I generally get tired of complaining about the prices of their models - not least because it is such an old complaint and yet GW are still in business.

That said, I often hear similar comments about skirmish games with pricey models... Which whilst I feel is valid on one hand, really pales in comparison to GW stuff (even the Specialist Games stuff second-hand) on the other.

What triggered my comment this time was that it's the first release in a while that I actually liked the look of and felt somewhat tempted by. Ah well, that £22 will be well spent elsewhere. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on May 27, 2015, 01:17:47 PM
No complaints here, as I only want him for Inquisitor28mm games. But if I'm really going to spend money I just as well sell a few more things and save for the 2 robots, you get a free techpriest with that  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 27, 2015, 01:25:49 PM
I dunno, the metal Engineseers can still be had rather cheaply second hand...  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 27, 2015, 01:29:33 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 27, 2015, 01:13:12 PM
Well, I generally get tired of complaining about the prices of their models - not least because it is such an old complaint and yet GW are still in business.

That said, I often hear similar comments about skirmish games with pricey models... Which whilst I feel is valid on one hand, really pales in comparison to GW stuff (even the Specialist Games stuff second-hand) on the other.

What triggered my comment this time was that it's the first release in a while that I actually liked the look of and felt somewhat tempted by. Ah well, that £22 will be well spent elsewhere. :)

There's the rub though, old but true, they release something nice, but its not nice enough for the asking price.

Look, like, see price, sigh, put back on shelf.

I know they are the premier toy seller in the region as such, but these are plastic miniatures, toys for bigger boys to play war with

Luxury item , luxury brand they are not. if it was made by say Cartier, might be more chance of that working.

Still their IP in other peoples hands almost works

Quote from: Vanvlak on May 26, 2015, 06:55:19 AM
I admit this may have been posted elsewhere and I missed it  ??? : a GW tabletop game, Forbidden Stars:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/forbidden-stars/ (https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/forbidden-stars/)

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/forbidden-stars/products/forbidden-stars-core-set/ (https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/forbidden-stars/products/forbidden-stars-core-set/)


Looks almost interesting, but I see reviews suggest more than 2 players can lead to long delays in gaming during battle resolutions
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 27, 2015, 02:13:59 PM
Quote
Soon GW will be the down to selling parts at this rate, individually boxed pieces, to assemble the multi-part kit of your choice.

Ask and ye shall receive - Forgeworld Reaver Titan - body only (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Titans/MARS-PATTERN-REAVER-TITAN-BODY-ONLY.html) £438.00 - but, hey, free p&p o_o

Arms, carapaces etc start at about £55.00 each
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 27, 2015, 03:01:32 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on May 27, 2015, 01:13:12 PM
What triggered my comment this time was that it's the first release in a while that I actually liked the look of and felt somewhat tempted by. Ah well, that £22 will be well spent elsewhere. :)

It is a lovely model, but... yeah, me too.

On the other hand, I can see it being the "Close your eyes and buy" model in a small Mechanicus force...

Still, there's a beautiful... beautiful... Magos Dominus tech-priest model on the Forgeworld site - actually cheaper at £20.50!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 27, 2015, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: zemjw on May 27, 2015, 11:36:27 AM
I was in my local store on Friday (needed some paint) and had a look around before purchasing. They had a Dark Eldar figure that I quite liked, but it was £14, so I put it back. That sort of money is acceptable for a boxed set, but not for a single figure (and certainly not for an impluse buy). It's not like you even get any extra bits to add to the bits box.

The thing with the plastic single-figure packs is that a number of them offer beautifully posed and "3D" models that would be a nightmare to assemble in metal and too fragile in resin.  OK, not so true for the space marine stuff.

I have a couple - the Wight King and Skink Shaman.  They're amazing figures.  Bought them when they came out at £8 though, and they were pricy then...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 27, 2015, 03:48:41 PM
I too have a few of the WHFB single figures that were between £7-9, and I felt that whilst pricey, they were good models and I can sort of see why they cost what they did for one-off plastic models. Weirdly, I didn't even get the buyer's regret I often experience.

The trouble is that for 40k, the single figures are just silly money (+50% or more) for basically the same thing, and I struggle to justify that even to myself (even the "close your eyes and just pay whatever" just fails now).

Anyway. Enough from me for now! :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on May 27, 2015, 04:23:54 PM
Ok! I nearly had a heart attack tonight!! I thought I'd take a wee quick trip into my local GW store to get paintbrushes. Figured I'd sort out my fine brushes that are at the end of their life. £12 for a fine detail brush!!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/XS-Artificer-Layer-Brush (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/XS-Artificer-Layer-Brush)

The guy in the store said they were high quality and that people that knew how to use them would spend that much!! Dickhead! The brush ends were even all split and shitty!!

GW.....You've hit a new low!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 27, 2015, 04:37:37 PM
Quote from: Andym on May 27, 2015, 04:23:54 PM
Ok! I nearly had a heart attack tonight!! I thought I'd take a wee quick trip into my local GW store to get paintbrushes. Figured I'd sort out my fine brushes that are at the end of their life. £12 for a fine detail brush!!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

 http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/XS-Artificer-Layer-Brush (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/XS-Artificer-Layer-Brush)

The guy in the store said they were high quality and that people that knew how to use them would spend that much!! Dickhead! The brush ends were even all split and shitty!!

GW.....You've hit a new low!!

Oh dear.

That's. wow.

http://www.em4miniatures.com/acatalog/Koliinsky_Sable_.html happy with those.

there was a thread about brushes a while back to.

Quote from: zemjw on May 27, 2015, 02:13:59 PM
Ask and ye shall receive - Forgeworld Reaver Titan - body only (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Titans/MARS-PATTERN-REAVER-TITAN-BODY-ONLY.html) £438.00 - but, hey, free p&p o_o

Arms, carapaces etc start at about £55.00 each

Does not count 'cause its forgeworld   ;D

Silly aside, though lovely  'model' but wow, thats a lot to lash out for your GW hobby.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on May 27, 2015, 04:47:42 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on May 27, 2015, 04:37:37 PM
Does not count 'cause its forgeworld   ;D
Looking at the Mechanicus releases (some of them are quite nice, but the prices are too rich for my blood), it seems GW is determined to make Forgeworld the "budget brand" by comparison...  o_o
Just a few mor years of price hikes..."adjustments" and they will achieve that goal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on May 27, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Which size would you recommend Tactalvanic? Whats a good size for detail work on 28mm minis?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Steve F on May 27, 2015, 04:55:42 PM
Size is secondary.  You will be able to paint fine detail better with a well-pointed no 1 brush than with a splayed 000.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 27, 2015, 05:01:26 PM
£12 for a GW is ridiculous.

A Winsor & Newton Series 7 size 1 will be useful for any human-sized figure, and is sharp enough to paint highlights on a model's eyeballs! Amazon have one here (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0013E68T4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ADC64JG0QGLE9) for about £7.

They might not be the cheapest you can buy, but they are by far the best I've ever used (and I wouldn't go back now without major convincing).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 27, 2015, 08:21:14 PM
Quote from: Andym on May 27, 2015, 04:49:43 PM
Which size would you recommend Tactalvanic? Whats a good size for detail work on 28mm minis?

As already mentioned point is priority but they are ok brushes

02/0 and 03/0 generally

The 3/0 are nice, fine, the 5/0 are getting  :o fine and tiny, but still, good points on those I have.

The 10/0 - any finer and there would only be one or two bristles on them.

Cannot argue that the Windsors are tops, but these ones are nice what I received all had good points when new..

and I can be bad and order some classic minis at the same time.

Its really a shocker that you can get a good Windsor & Newton for a fiver less than a GW brush. thats just mad.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on May 27, 2015, 11:53:23 PM
I agree with others that a Windsor and Newton size 1 is great, versatile and with a good brush cleanerand careful use  will last a long time.

I find Rotmarder Kolinski brushes to be a good, cheaper alternative too.

Personally i would use a smaller brush for very fine detail because I am clumsy and need all the help i can get.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 28, 2015, 08:48:27 AM
The bloke did ask me if I wanted any new brushes when I was buying the paint. I declined, saying I probably had more brushes than they did (sad, but true  o_o). Fortunately he didn't mention any prices, as I'm fairly sure that the "you're kidding, right" thought wouldn't have stayed in my head.

Rosemary's brushes (http://www.rosemaryandco.com/) for me these days. Better than the W&N ones I have, and half the cost. Plus, they arrive within about five minutes of placing the order (well, not quite, but not far off it)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 28, 2015, 08:55:31 AM
I'm used to seeing GW prices day rocket but I just checked what a single tech priest is in NZD $73. That's almost a whole new miniatures boardgame from other manufacturers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Damas on May 28, 2015, 12:04:52 PM
Quote from: zemjw on May 28, 2015, 08:48:27 AM
Rosemary's brushes (http://www.rosemaryandco.com/) for me these days. Better than the W&N ones I have, and half the cost. Plus, they arrive within about five minutes of placing the order (well, not quite, but not far off it)

Zemjw, if I were to replace my old set of GW-standard brushes, what would you recommend from Rosemary?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 28, 2015, 12:25:58 PM
Mine are at home, so I'll check out which ones I have tonight. This thread - http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=16034.0 covers most of them. If memory serves, it's mainly the series 22 and 33 I have - link (http://www.rosemaryandco.com/watercolour-brushes/pure-kolinsky-sable)

The main thing to remember is to order short handles. Rosemary's brushes are used by "real" artists as well - the folks who like to stand a few feet back from their canvas while painting - and the bigger handles are sized accordingly :D

I did buy a couple of brushes (can't remember which make at the moment) with stupidly long handles. I've always been scared to use them in case I poke an eye out ;D

edit: I'm looking at the brushes just now, and it's series 22 and 33. I mainly use size 0 and 1, but have smaller and larger sizes when the need dictates. To chuck some other names into the mix - look at Raphael (http://www.greatart.co.uk/Raphael-Kolinsky-Series-8404-Fine-Watercolour-Brushes-greatart.html) and da Vinci (http://www.jacksonsart.com/Art_Departments-A-Z_All_Departments-Artist_Brushes-Oil_&_Acrylic_Brushes-Da_Vinci_Red_Sable_Brushes-Da_Vinci_Red_Sable_Series_1610_Round_Brushes/c2129_2128_1083_945_28820_28822/index.html). I have a couple of their sable brushes that I use regularly. However, definitely check handle sizes before buying.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 30, 2015, 11:26:32 AM
Rumour is that the expensive brush is a rebadged Windsor and Newton 7, size 000.  As Major Gilbear said though, they're still cheaper elsewhere...

After years of using cheaper brushes, I'm still getting used to my W&Ns, but they are gorgeous.  The length of the bristles holds much more paint than I'm used to and, as Steve F said, it's surprising how fine a line you can get with a decent point on a good brush.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 30, 2015, 12:29:51 PM
I have to say I like the look of the double handed chainsword "eviscerator". Still same old marines though.
Upgrade packs, good idea too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on May 30, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
Quote from: beefcake on May 30, 2015, 12:29:51 PM
I have to say I like the look of the double handed chainsword "eviscerator".
I find the large, wraparound handguard on it quite clunky and unattractive... Especially as there seems to be no parts-breakup or molding reason for it. It feels a bit like "can't be bothered"-design.
I am, however, quite happy that the lumps of stone stuck to their feet are entirely optional.

The upgrade packs are a great idea, let's hope they make more than just those four... Those chapters have plenty of bits already.
Space Marines could use a bit of diversity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on May 30, 2015, 02:02:33 PM
Check this out!  An RC Baneblade custom job from Russia...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko0t_NVVQrs
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on May 30, 2015, 02:35:50 PM
Thanks Zemjw! I've put my order in and I'm going to try these out! Thanks again for the help!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on May 30, 2015, 11:05:55 PM


Rosemary's brushes (http://www.rosemaryandco.com/) for me these days. Better than the W&N ones I have, and half the cost. Plus, they arrive within about five minutes of placing the order (well, not quite, but not far off it)
[/quote]

Yep 100% agree that Rosemary & Co brushes are the best for their pricepoint, been using them and nothing but for the last year. If you look after them and use brush soap once in awhile they should last a few while (I'm lazy so had to replace mine heh)

These are the range I get:

http://www.rosemaryandco.com/acrylic-brushes/red-sable-blend-acrylic/pointed-sable-mixture

- Chico
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 31, 2015, 08:30:59 PM
Just to make GW's prices seem reasonable, a W&N Series 7 size 10 has a rrp of £219.30 :o item at bottom of link (http://www.greatart.co.uk/Winsor-Newton-Series-7-Red-Sable-Watercolour-Brushes-greatart.html)

Probably about the right size for vehicles, so perhaps that'll be next on their list ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: redeaston on June 02, 2015, 09:32:43 AM
Rosemary & Co for me as well. They last me ages and they paint very well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 02, 2015, 11:31:51 AM
So, new SM assault squad, an upgrade frame for each codex, and a transfers sheet for each codex...

The assault squad is nice enough (some derp-face heads though :( ), but expensive as usual. I have no idea why they can't make 10-man squads like they do with the tacticals. At least this time the squad comes with all the options in the book, plus a new one - the eviscerator (which I really don't like the look of). Strangely, only one lightning claw included - even though you can take just one as an option, I would have still expected a pair?

The upgrade sprues are relatively expensive too, but look like they have some useful parts. The BA sprue even comes with a chalice for a Sanguinary Priest, and I can see the Ultra sprue being popular for those wishing to build an Honour Guard squad for their hero. The DA and SW sprues are cool enough, but I don't really feel they add a whole lot to what was available before.

The transfer sheets are nice, even for £15, and look like they include complete banner designs on them. As somebody with a DA army, having transfers for all the banners is frankly worth the price for not having to paint each one freehand!

I wonder if we will eventually see other upgrade sprues for Imperial/Crimson Fists, Black Templars, Raven Guard, Iron Hands, etc. I can see these being extremely popular cross-chapter if they stick with the current £8 format (an Iron Hands one with lots of bionics for example would be super).

I likewise wonder if we will see this rolled out for Chaos as well (for some if not all the traitor legions), and even if we will see something similar for Eldar craftworlds or Ork klans? Probably not, but then again I think they'd be really popular as a way of letting people indulge an interest in a themed squad or two even if they don't collect an army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on June 03, 2015, 01:58:14 AM
Some photos surfaced on the interwebs showing a poster advertising the "Age of Sigmar" Arriving Jul 11, with preorders on July 4.  Sounds like 9th edition is only a month away.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 03, 2015, 11:41:46 AM
The rumour mill is hinting it's a board game, not a 9th Edition thing. But who knows.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 03, 2015, 11:54:45 AM
Quote from: Cubs on June 03, 2015, 11:41:46 AM
But who knows.

Nobody outside of GW management! That's the problem. :) Too many GW fans getting frustrated by treading water, or spinning their wheels, or sumpthin', since GW went all secretive about their release schedule. (Chapterhouse's fault, apparently)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 03, 2015, 01:03:04 PM
Quote from: Vermis on June 03, 2015, 11:54:45 AM
(Chapterhouse's fault, apparently)

Well, ironically, if GW were more up-front about their coming releases, their customers might be more inclined to wait for the official models. Of course, if they have no idea what might be coming or when, then you can't blame people for thinking "oh fuck it, I'll buy these other models now instead".

I've also seen this week blurry pictures of a plastic Dark Angels chaplain and a generic Terminator Librarian. Both are nice enough, but now I await sticker shock and subsequent resuscitation when the details are all eventually confirmed officially. If they are not too outrageous, I may even be tempted!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 03, 2015, 01:35:17 PM
GW related, I stumbled upon this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/End-Times-Archaon-book-Limited-edition-doorstop-table-prop-BNIB-OOP-/201362089583?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ee21da66f) earlier in the week - the description was very entertaining!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on June 03, 2015, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 03, 2015, 01:35:17 PM
GW related, I stumbled upon this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/End-Times-Archaon-book-Limited-edition-doorstop-table-prop-BNIB-OOP-/201362089583?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ee21da66f) earlier in the week - the description was very entertaining!

I love this guy.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: harleyface on June 03, 2015, 02:34:18 PM
 lol


I will also ship this piece of crap anywhere internationally for free, yes that includes Russia and Italy where the postal workers are such a bunch of thieves and so crooked and bent they’d sell their own mothers’ teeth while they sleep. I’m that confident that even they won’t want this and thus deliver it to destination so they may laugh at the individual who has been so gloriously mugged of with this piece of old bollox.
 
 
The end Times – so shit even GW won’t take it  back.
 
Please end my misery and buy this white elephant.  Naturally ebay will use that elf helmet and road drill on me with their charges and then paypal will do the same, so its priced accordingly in an attempt to make the pain when I sit down half bearable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 03, 2015, 03:45:24 PM
Started off funny, but as it went on about various subjects it looked like this guy has a few issues of his own. ;D

Needs a bit of CBT.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on June 03, 2015, 05:32:18 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 03, 2015, 01:03:04 PM
Well, ironically, if GW were more up-front about their coming releases, their customers might be more inclined to wait for the official models. Of course, if they have no idea what might be coming or when, then you can't blame people for thinking "oh fuck it, I'll buy these other models now instead".
With their prices I need to plan/budget/save for my GW purchases ahead of time. If I don't know what is coming, I can't plan ahead for it, so won't buy it... As a result my money goes to other companies, who like their customers better than their secrets.  ;)

Heh, the ebay guy seems to be somewhat "retentive" in certain areas... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 03, 2015, 08:30:26 PM
Can't remember when I last bought a new non-discounted GW product (other than a pot of paint).

If I do, it will probably be the odd LotR minis needed to make a full unit for one of my GoB armies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 06, 2015, 01:29:52 PM
New Devastator squad is up.  The usual tale - looks nice, big price rise.  It does still look a good value set - lots of heavy weapons, combi-weapons, pistols and some close-combat weapons and extra bits.  Do like the bomb-carrying cherub.

The new battleforces are looking very sparse though - eleven minis and a Dread for £60?  Jog on...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 06, 2015, 01:43:35 PM
I should probably point out something that concerned me whilst at warhammer world. I noticed that some of the lizardmen were based on round bases. At the time, I brushed it off as some kind of artsy-fartsy thing, but included in the round-basers were temple guard.

Temple. Guard.

The kind of folks who don't tend to skirmish. With all this talk of the age of sigmar, it's got me a tad worried.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 06, 2015, 02:07:29 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on June 06, 2015, 01:29:52 PM
New Devastator squad is up.  The usual tale - looks nice, big price rise.  It does still look a good value set - lots of heavy weapons

I keep hearing complaints about the previous devastator kit containing just one of each type of heavy weapon. Does this one have multiples, then? (Sorry, too lazy to go look. :D )

Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 06, 2015, 01:43:35 PM
I should probably point out something that concerned me whilst at warhammer world. I noticed that some of the lizardmen were based on round bases. At the time, I brushed it off as some kind of artsy-fartsy thing, but included in the round-basers were temple guard.

Temple. Guard.

The kind of folks who don't tend to skirmish. With all this talk of the age of sigmar, it's got me a tad worried.

That's been talked (and ranted) about at length, on Dakka. People still can't agree whether it's some studio guy's army based on rounds 'just cus'; based to switch between skirmish and battle modes that 9th might have, with War of the Ring style movement trays (a bit of wishlisting that somehow gained traction); or based up for a solely skirmish game that 9th might be.

The only thing that's certain is that nobody really knows until July.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on June 06, 2015, 02:37:19 PM
Quote from: Vermis on June 06, 2015, 02:07:29 PM
I keep hearing complaints about the previous devastator kit containing just one of each type of heavy weapon. Does this one have multiples, then? (Sorry, too lazy to go look. :D )

Two each of apparently each type of heavy weapon, plus various combiwotsits and close combat weapons.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 06, 2015, 04:24:50 PM
Quote from: Vermis on June 06, 2015, 02:07:29 PM
I keep hearing complaints about the previous devastator kit containing just one of each type of heavy weapon. Does this one have multiples, then? (Sorry, too lazy to go look. :D )

Two of all the big guns.  Pretty sure the previous one had two of most of the weapons?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 07, 2015, 12:42:58 AM
Momotaro: I possibly misheard the exact numbers, but there was definitely grumbling about loadout limitations. If there's still only two each, then meh.

Quote from: Scurv on June 06, 2015, 11:07:28 PM
Love that franchise as I do they ALWAYS screw it up and the modders fix it and I suspect this will be no different.

The official product is a badly made barely playable mess that's left to some random fans to fix. Yup, sounds like a good match for GW. And, gotta be honest, almost as appealing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 07, 2015, 07:43:10 AM
Quote from: Vermis on June 06, 2015, 02:07:29 PM
That's been talked (and ranted) about at length, on Dakka. People still can't agree whether it's some studio guy's army based on rounds 'just cus'; based to switch between skirmish and battle modes that 9th might have, with War of the Ring style movement trays (a bit of wishlisting that somehow gained traction); or based up for a solely skirmish game that 9th might be.

The only thing that's certain is that nobody really knows until July.

If it was some studio guy's army, why would they put it in the gallery? It looked okay for the monsters and skinks, but seeing 'em on the guard just irks me irrationaly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 07, 2015, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 07, 2015, 07:43:10 AM
If it was some studio guy's army, why would they put it in the gallery?

I think someone with a bit of extra info said as much; not sure how much salt to take it with. But also, GW still has fans who think GW is concerned about pleasing them, and won't invalidate their huge unit-block collections or drop customers like a hot potato if they think they'll make more money some other way. They didn't like the implication from those lizardmen that WFB was moving to round-base skirmish.

That said, other fans liked the look so much that they considered switching their own lizardmen and things to 32mm round bases for square-block, big-battle Warhammer, despite the hefty in-game disadvantages. :)

So I guess the best you can say is that there's no accounting for taste. Though personally, I think it adds to the feeling that 9th ed better be something spectacular, or it risks killing off WFB altogether.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 07, 2015, 01:53:09 PM
Quote from: Vermis on June 07, 2015, 01:20:42 PM
I think someone with a bit of extra info said as much; not sure how much salt to take it with. But also, GW still has fans who think GW is concerned about pleasing them, and won't invalidate their huge unit-block collections or drop customers like a hot potato if they think they'll make more money some other way. They didn't like the implication from those lizardmen that WFB was moving to round-base skirmish.

That said, other fans liked the look so much that they considered switching their own lizardmen and things to 32mm round bases for square-block, big-battle Warhammer, despite the hefty in-game disadvantages. :)

So I guess the best you can say is that there's no accounting for taste. Though personally, I think it adds to the feeling that 9th ed better be something spectacular, or it risks killing off WFB altogether.

Agreed. Still, the fact that nothing else had a round base...probably not worth worrying about yet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 08, 2015, 12:37:09 PM
By now I'm so far past my gw phase that I can look at this as a fascinating but somewhat meaningless trivia. I mean I'm interested to see what happens but I don't particularly care that much. If anything I am just waiting for GW to make that big mistake they sooner or later will and the company to be saved by passionate fans who in their enthusiasm and inexperiance will usher in a new age of strange decicions.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on June 09, 2015, 03:07:44 PM
Well Age of Sigmar is now being advertised with nothing more than a preorder date and some cryptic verse.

That explains a plethora of recent FLG stores I know selling off all their Warhammer stock at 50% or more.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 09, 2015, 03:24:44 PM
Quote from: Mr Brown on June 09, 2015, 03:07:44 PM
Well Age of Sigmar is now being advertised with nothing more than a preorder date and some cryptic verse.

Where? What? I usually get news the same time as everybody else around here, but that one slipped under my radar...  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 09, 2015, 04:56:28 PM
You have not missed much as they are not telling anything more than rumours and a cryptic verse.

So not bothered with GW's secret Sigmar offering - there's so much more cool stuff from elsewhere and old school GW, its not worth the effort.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Drachenklinge on June 09, 2015, 05:12:00 PM
Instead of thinking that they will drop the complete WHFB rules so far ... why not assuming, they will roll out a new skirmish variant?
Wouldn't be the first time for some roundbase skirmish with GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 09, 2015, 11:57:56 PM
Quote from: Drachenklinge on June 09, 2015, 05:12:00 PM
Instead of thinking that they will drop the complete WHFB rules so far ... why not assuming, they will roll out a new skirmish variant?
Wouldn't be the first time for some roundbase skirmish with GW.

I think it is fairly safe to assume that the rules framework will remain recognizable - after all, they have maintained that for about 30 years, refusing to alter it much after the fusing of the 3(?) 4(?) psychology-stats.

Unless... they simply toss everything in the air...  lol

Exactly what will be the result...? No idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 10, 2015, 02:40:16 AM
Quote from: Argonor on June 09, 2015, 11:57:56 PM
Unless... they simply toss everything in the air...  lol

Exactly what will be the result...? No idea.

With their apparent switch to selling 'collectables', and the rules as an unimportant afterthought, I still have a bad feeling the result will be Dreadfleet-ish.

Oddly enough I think 'tossing everything in the air' could be a fairly accurate description of the gameplay, too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 10, 2015, 04:06:03 AM
Quote from: Vermis on June 10, 2015, 02:40:16 AM
With their apparent switch to selling 'collectables', and the rules as an unimportant afterthought, I still have a bad feeling the result will be Dreadfleet-ish.

Oddly enough I think 'tossing everything in the air' could be a fairly accurate description of the Business strategy, too.
Fixed that for you. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 10, 2015, 12:12:32 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't mind having a crack at a warhammer skirmish game. My biggest problem with the game is all the time it takes for me to set up...bloody hordes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 10, 2015, 12:55:21 PM
I see the empire militia are back in stock.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 10, 2015, 06:02:22 PM
More kits found between the couch cushions?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 10, 2015, 06:08:53 PM
Has the price gone up yet?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 10, 2015, 09:59:55 PM
£20.50 don't know what they were before.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 11, 2015, 10:51:00 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 10, 2015, 12:12:32 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't mind having a crack at a warhammer skirmish game. My biggest problem with the game is all the time it takes for me to set up...bloody hordes.

How about using some unit fillers for regular WHFB? I think it helps the units look more personalised (since the models still have to rank up, posing and such is limited), saves you a lot of money, saves time setting up. That's pretty much a win-win-win! ;)

A skirmish game... Hmm. Mordheim was okay, but I don't think it's much of a replacement for the "main game". The other issue is that I don't see GW moving away form their usual D6-based roll-to-hit; roll-to-wound; roll to save mechanic, which I think severely limits the chances of anything genuinely interesting.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 11, 2015, 12:29:40 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 11, 2015, 10:51:00 AM
How about using some unit fillers for regular WHFB? I think it helps the units look more personalised (since the models still have to rank up, posing and such is limited), saves you a lot of money, saves time setting up. That's pretty much a win-win-win! ;)

I've considered that, but the event of me having money for filler bases and me having a unit to build don't seem to match up often. Then there's the matter of transportation and I'm just coming up with excuses at this point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 11, 2015, 12:35:20 PM
I know this will sound sacrilegious and likely lead to my excombobulation...but

Maybe have a look at the Frostgrave Nickstarter thing

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=77432.0

Now I will go sit quietly and await the GW hobby Inquisition team...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 11, 2015, 12:46:55 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 11, 2015, 12:29:40 PM
I've considered that, but the event of me having money for filler bases and me having a unit to build don't seem to match up often. Then there's the matter of transportation and I'm just coming up with excuses at this point.

Fair enough, but filler bases don't have cost a lot; a tree, a rock, a shack, an altar, a monster (from a cheap toy or pre-paint), etc. Stick it on a suitable base made from whatever, plop it into the middle of a unit tray (arranging the singly-based models around it as you wish) and you're done. The further bonus is that it cuts down the number models you need to transport (since the filler ideas I've listed are fairly robust and can go in a box/bag), and the ones you're not using can double up as scenery or objectives.

Anyway, it was just a thought. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 12, 2015, 02:01:49 PM
Those are some good ideas. I've probably been overthinking the idea of filler bases, what with some truly amazing ones out there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 12, 2015, 03:48:28 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 12, 2015, 02:01:49 PM
I've probably been overthinking the idea of filler bases, what with some truly amazing ones out there.
Yeah, some are very elaborate!

But even if you want something more themed, it can still be economical. Off the top of my head:

- A big pyre for Empire Flagellants
- A wave with a beach-themed tray for Dark Elf Corsairs or High Elf Lothern Sea Guard
- A mausoleum for Grave Guard
- An obelisk for Tomb Kings or High Elves
- A statue of a great hero for Empire
- A herdstone for Beastmen
- A tent or cart for Bretonnians
- Gnarly old trees for Wood Elves
- Totem stones for Orcs
- Giant mushrooms for Night/Forest Goblins

And many more I'm sure! The point is to theme the army in a way that's both economical and fun, and that's exactly why I think it's actually more individual than trying to convert or pose models in big regiments. Anyway, I hope it gives you some ideas. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on June 13, 2015, 11:06:06 AM
I had no idea what these filler things were, so I googled.

Oh wow. The arguing. Pages and pages and pages of going round and round and round and now I'm smelling colors and tasting vertigo. That... actually makes me kinda glad I don't do big army stuff, just so I wouldn't have to deal with that. From the outside it seems clearly a "no right answer" thing, but oh my... you can just sit out here on the porch with some lemonade all evening, listening to the salty winds rustling through the jimmies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 13, 2015, 11:35:18 AM
Quote from: Connectamabob on June 13, 2015, 11:06:06 AM
I had no idea what these filler things were, so I googled.

Oh wow. The arguing. Pages and pages and pages of going round and round and round and now I'm smelling colors and tasting vertigo. That... actually makes me kinda glad I don't do big army stuff, just so I wouldn't have to deal with that. From the outside it seems clearly a "no right answer" thing, but oh my... you can just sit out here on the porch with some lemonade all evening, listening to the salty winds rustling through the jimmies.

I don't think it's a problem inherent to big army games. It's a more contentious issue for Warhammer - where every ambulatory wound marker in that 40-50-count unit has to matter; where scenic elements in a unit became 'controversial' because some donkey decided to introduce 'true line of sight'; and even where some players resent you and accuse you of insulting them and cheating (or at least 'not doing it right') because you didn't shell out just as much silly money as they did (i.e. the GW hobby, according to Alan Merrett) - than with most other, unit-footprint-based, diorama-encouraging mass battle games. Yup, like you've seen, there's an awful lot of debating about just what a unit filler in WFB is or should be, and what it should contain, usually a hefty chunk of terrain; but I'm reading this topic and feel like adding to Major Gilbear's (entirely valid) suggestions: 'just space the filler base minis out a bit'. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 13, 2015, 02:24:41 PM
I Hope they will make it a skirmish game. I left them halfway 4th edition, tried again a few 6th edition games but the mass battles combined with their army compositions and modelling style made me turn away from them for good. Or so I thought, until the apparent reshuffling and the rumours about a new set-up.
I might get the new box, but of course will use my own models since they've lost me on theirs... :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 13, 2015, 04:26:06 PM
Heh, wonder if Frank Herbert's estate can sue GW now  :D
Check their website, the pic with the SM commander.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Drachenklinge on June 13, 2015, 04:34:58 PM
Actually I would't mind silly rules or GW-sales-politics if only my dwarfs (the ones painted in red) would finally become the move-bonus they so rightfully deserve.  >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 13, 2015, 06:34:37 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on June 13, 2015, 02:24:41 PM
I Hope they will make it a skirmish game. I left them halfway 4th edition, tried again a few 6th edition games but the mass battles combined with their army compositions and modelling style made me turn away from them for good. Or so I thought, until the apparent reshuffling and the rumours about a new set-up.
I might get the new box, but of course will use my own models since they've lost me on theirs... :?


Gonna be honest, I am kinda interested to see what they do for a skirmish games, even if I'm not altogether optimistic.

Quote from: Vanvlak on June 13, 2015, 04:26:06 PM
Heh, wonder if Frank Herbert's estate can sue GW now  :D
Check their website, the pic with the SM commander.

Blimey, could you narrow it down a bit?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 13, 2015, 06:41:37 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on June 13, 2015, 04:26:06 PM
Heh, wonder if Frank Herbert's estate can sue GW now  :D
Check their website, the pic with the SM commander.

I'm curious which image you mean... quite a bit of 40K background is Dune inspired, obviously, but I don't recall any obviously direct visual evidence off the top of my head.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 13, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
Quote from: Connectamabob on June 13, 2015, 11:06:06 AM
I had no idea what these filler things were, so I googled.

Oh wow. The arguing. Pages and pages and pages of going round and round and round and now I'm smelling colors and tasting vertigo. That... actually makes me kinda glad I don't do big army stuff, just so I wouldn't have to deal with that. From the outside it seems clearly a "no right answer" thing, but oh my... you can just sit out here on the porch with some lemonade all evening, listening to the salty winds rustling through the jimmies.

Eh... It's only a big deal if you play with the sort of people who want the benefit of the doubt when it suits them, but won't extend it to you in the same game when it doesn't. These are also often the same sort of people who argue over every rule to eke an advantage, and do so because they think it demonstrates how good they are playing the game. (Not to be confused with the folks who build strong/cheesy armies, although there is obviously a reasonable overlap between the two).

The main thing to remember when using unit fillers is they they just represent the same troops as the unit they're in. I also note that you are only likely to use these in big units (25+ models usually), and that they generally equate to a full rank's worth of models on average; since large units mostly gain from being hard to wear down rather then any real combat benefits, it's not unusual for them to have a rank or two stripped off by the time they make it into combat. In these cases, just take the filler out when such a loss occurs and add back in single model or two as needed to make up the correct number again.

An alternative is to use fillers on single bases. For example: gravestones can be used to pad out any Undead regiment, and shrubs or sprites for any Wood Elf unit. This way, the bases are not an issue for things like templates, and models can be swapped around within the unit to solve any tricky LOS issues. These are also useful if you have a regiment whose models are difficult to rank up, such as those holding halberds across their chests for instance.

With regard to the "legality" in game terms of base fillers, I would like to point out that GW used (back in 6E, at least) to supply bases that were 1 x 4 models in footprint in various basic regiment boxes. The idea was to make it easier and faster to deploy models and remove casualties from big units, and also to assist with ranking up awkward models. It didn't take long before there were examples in WD of players and staff who'd used these to make little vignettes within their regiments. So it's as "official" as anything else really, and many enterprising players used these bases to spread out the models a bit and make each box go further in terms of making a big regiment. <shrug>

Quote from: Dr Mathias on June 13, 2015, 06:41:37 PM
I'm curious which image you mean... quite a bit of 40K background is Dune inspired, obviously, but I don't recall any obviously direct visual evidence off the top of my head.

He means the quote "Minds are the fear-killer", which is a spin of FH's "Fear is the mind-killer".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 13, 2015, 06:49:08 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 13, 2015, 06:48:12 PM
He means the quote "Minds are the fear-killer", which is a spin of FH's "Fear is the mind-killer".

Heh heh, yep, I just saw that and headed back here ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 13, 2015, 06:54:12 PM
I mean, it's not a good as FH's version, but I guess it was meant to be a "reference joke"* rather than something pithy in its own right.


*These are "jokes" that aren't funny, and merely just references to something else instead. I notice these substituted for actual humor more and more these days, and assume it's an extention of internet meme humour...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 13, 2015, 07:34:23 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 13, 2015, 06:54:12 PM
I mean, it's not a good as FH's version, but I guess it was meant to be a "reference joke"* rather than something pithy in its own right.


*These are "jokes" that aren't funny, and merely just references to something else instead. I notice these substituted for actual humor more and more these days, and assume it's an extention of internet meme humour...
Well spotted  :D
And that's the problem - if it were not intended seriously it would be fine, but the grimdark universe seems to have lost its sense of fun, and that makes the paraprasing unimaginative instead of clever :( Then again - I might be doing the same overthinking this!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 13, 2015, 09:25:26 PM
I think the tweaked phrase could have just as easily been a 'Thought for the Day' in the Rogue Trader rulebook.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on June 14, 2015, 11:32:08 AM
"Victory does not always rest with the big guns, but if we rest in front of them, we will be lost."

On that i think we can all agree.

"Minds are the fear killer" sounds altogether more questionable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on June 14, 2015, 11:17:31 PM
I've been somewhat pleased with the announcement of AoS. Having items go oop is a great impetus to finally getting hold of them.

What I don't understand is the sense from some Warhammer players that this is the end of the game they enjoy -- is there some reason they think that they will no longer be able to play version 8? Or is this down to it no longer being allowed in GW shop games?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 15, 2015, 03:03:21 AM
Quote from: AfricanAl on June 14, 2015, 11:17:31 PM
What I don't understand is the sense from some Warhammer players that this is the end of the game they enjoy -- is there some reason they think that they will no longer be able to play version 8? Or is this down to it no longer being allowed in GW shop games?

The latter, at least partially. I've had a bit of a, ah... lively discussion about it recently. As far as I can see the attitude is that you have to play at a GW store (or a local gaming shop that sells the five or six most popular publicised games) because anything else is a howling wasteland where you'll be put through the unimaginable tortures of having to organise things for yourself and being able to continue playing without buying heaps of new stuff...

Edit: with the caveat that it's hardwired into a gamer's genetics that they do keep buying heaps of stuff, but generally not to scramble to keep up with rules churn; to bloat an army beyond sense; or because the sellers convinced the gamers and themselves that that's what the hobby actually is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 15, 2015, 05:09:15 AM
Well, it's not entirely baseless complaint.

New players will typically be introduced to whichever rules set is newest and will stay current as that is what's officiated for tournaments etc. Also, if we're NOT talking about GW, then "most current" usually means "best" in the sense that problems have been worked out, things have been cleared up and organized, etc. and if you don't know GW, then it's easy for new players to assume the most current rules are the ones with the most work behind them and are in the best shape.

Sure, within your own play group it's possible to come to a consensus about one edition or another, but it's often a hassle to explain to someone why "obsolete" ruleset X is superior to the current rules and other obsolete rulesets.

Granted, folks who get into wargaming will usually learn many rules sets and switch between at least a couple if not loads, but GW being the gateway drug (of course this is waning) means you get players who aren't used to that idea yet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 15, 2015, 08:47:52 AM
Quote from: AfricanAl on June 14, 2015, 11:17:31 PM
[...] is there some reason they think that they will no longer be able to play version 8?

No idea, but this has always been my attitude. I mean, if you already play a game you like and have all the clobber for it, why not stick with it?

Then again, for a lot of hobbyists the "shiny-new" is always the driving force. Playing anything but the latest edition is tantamount to excluding yourself from hobby forums, and is (basically) making yourself extremely unfashionable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 15, 2015, 08:58:44 AM
Same thing goes for new phones doesn't it. Buy the new one, they say it's better. Gotta keep up with the latest trends or else you will seem uncool. Lol, writing this about being in a GW store. I don't think being a wargamer, no matter how fun we find it, will be considered cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 15, 2015, 09:02:46 AM
I think FramFramson has the gist of it.

GW are about the new customer.

Preferably young, impressionable with affluent parents..... or the collector

Then there is tournament and the WarHammer shop you must play in backing that up as well, so new players, latest shiny their parents want to get their moneys worth from...

Of course its also GrimDARK, so negativity, end is nigh, its all gone, we gonna die is really part of the whole thing.

So an amount of "doomed, we're all doomed, the end is nigh, repent and see the light, and buy into the latest version", is perhaps to be expected?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Damas on June 15, 2015, 10:48:49 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 15, 2015, 08:47:52 AM
***making yourself extremely unfashionable.

I don't think I've ever considered Warhamster players fashionable.  Even when I worked for the company, played the games and toed the company line.

Just not the kind of person I wanted to emulate.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on June 15, 2015, 11:17:43 AM
I recently started picking up a few pieces for nostalgia sake (I remember having Blood Angels in the 90s) and wanted to practice some painting techniques on 28mm figures.

Frankly I don't mind the prices per say, I treat 28mm as a skirmish scale anyway and prices for this scale when it comes to sci fi/fantasy are pretty high across the board but if bought in small amounts with the next amount only purchased once the last lot were painted, probably its no more expensive than any other hobby, wargaming other stuff/scales or otherwise.

My only issue with GW is the experience you get when entering a store.

Its just the endless hassle, sure its been like this for awhile. But when I go in to pick up a box of plastic robots for a family members birthday present or paint, the last thing I want is to be grilled about why I'm buying it, and then urged to buy another set of other expensive stuff because it works well in the rules or looks good in that hue.

I've worked in various retail/visitor outlets for nearly 7 years and you don't pester the customers. You let them come to you with their queries. I've been informed they are trained to act this way, which is the biggest indication (if any) that whoever runs GW or at least the store front operation doesn't have a clue what they are doing.

That being said, I do find the fluff still interesting, and at least what has come out of the books etc has made the Warhammer 40k universe a little more complicated and intricate then ye olde 'Grim-Dark' and it is cool. Afterall the last thing you need to peddle are products based on some depressing universe in currently depressing times.

I've also had the pleasure of encountering some of the more engaged followers of GW outside the store, thought I'd say hi, but it was awkward going.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 15, 2015, 12:32:47 PM
Quote from: Damas on June 15, 2015, 10:48:49 AM
I don't think I've ever considered Warhamster players fashionable.

Ah, well, I meant in terms of context! Even with their boutique rebranding, I think GW has a long way to go before it's widely regarded as fashionable in the wider sense. :P

I mean, fashion (and what is fashionable) is mostly judged by those interested in whatever the relevant fashion is. So in the context of playing Fantasy Strife Mallet, the apparent prevailing opinion (i.e., usually the loudest opinion) is what every impressionable Malleteer strives for...

One thing that I've always been somewhat surprised by though is that in all this time, there's never been a "Community Edition" of the game. It would solve of lot the silly rules nonsense that people argue and fret over, and many of the more popular tournaments' restrictions amount to partial re-writes anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 15, 2015, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 15, 2015, 12:32:47 PM
One thing that I've always been somewhat surprised by though is that in all this time, there's never been a "Community Edition" of the game. It would solve of lot the silly rules nonsense that people argue and fret over, and many of the more popular tournaments' restrictions amount to partial re-writes anyway.

Community Edition - can GW copyright that ?

I guess my main thought leans towards previous editions, other fantasy battle games - and the - use what you want past and present.. There is the only community versions GW will generate perhaps

Maybe its the mindset also - teenagers even nerdy spotty unfashionable ones don't like to agree on anything.

and is or would it be compatible with GW business practice? after all the drive is always to sell the next thing, improve the rules... change so you have to.... buy more product to play etc.

If they stopped that - used a common community edition for tournament etc that was more static - would they fear the impact to the bottom line then? no change, no sale, oh no  :o

In essence the constant changes and partial re-writes are seen as commercially necessary?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 15, 2015, 01:25:43 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on June 15, 2015, 12:53:39 PM
Community Edition - can GW copyright that ?

I guess my main thought leans towards previous editions, other fantasy battle games - and the - use what you want past and present.. There is the only community versions GW will generate perhaps

Maybe its the mindset also - teenagers even nerdy spotty unfashionable ones don't like to agree on anything.

and is or would it be compatible with GW business practice? after all the drive is always to sell the next thing, improve the rules... change so you have to.... buy more product to play etc.

If they stopped that - used a common community edition for tournament etc that was more static - would they fear the impact to the bottom line then? no change, no sale, oh no  :o

In essence the constant changes and partial re-writes are seen as commercially necessary?

I don't mean anything officially endorsed by GW, but rather something produced and universally acknowledged by the players themselves.

As I said, a lot of the more popular tournaments (ETC format for example) already have a raft of changes to the core rules anyway.

Additionally, the wider gaming community had already taken a lot of the "Specialist Games" away from GW for a while, and re-writes of older games (like NetEpic) have been around for aaages.

In effect, the Community Edition would be like the house rules that a club or your friends might use, but on a worldwide scale - thus eliminating the "problem" of house rules in that everyone's playing a slightly different version of the game from each other, making discussion or pick-up games potentially tricky.

As long as no copyright-able names are used, then there is pretty much nothing that GW can do about it either. The rules mechanics for example cannot be legally protected.


Quote from: Brummie on June 15, 2015, 11:17:43 AM
I recently started picking up a few pieces for nostalgia sake (I remember having Blood Angels in the 90s) and wanted to practice some painting techniques on 28mm figures.

Slippery slope! ;)

I too loved the Blood Angels (and had half the company in 6mm scale) in the 90's, but with the coming of 3rd Edition, their background was re-focused into the dreadful rubbish we have now.

Quote from: Brummie on June 15, 2015, 11:17:43 AM
Frankly I don't mind the prices per say, I treat 28mm as a skirmish scale anyway and prices for this scale when it comes to sci fi/fantasy are pretty high across the board but if bought in small amounts with the next amount only purchased once the last lot were painted, probably its no more expensive than any other hobby, wargaming other stuff/scales or otherwise.

It's reached the stage where Forge World's prices are now fairly equivalent in many cases to GW's.

That said, if you like Space Marines and the background (and you're after a real nostalgia hit), I highly recommend FW's Horus Heresy series of books and models. Very expensive, but it's easily the best thing put out by the whole of GW for the last decade.

The other nice thing about FW's books is that they get to redefine the events of the HH, and by extension can therefore provide new (and so far, excellent) thematic background to the original eighteen Legions and the other relevant forces.

Quote from: Brummie on June 15, 2015, 11:17:43 AM
My only issue with GW is the experience you get when entering a store.

Its just the endless hassle, sure its been like this for awhile. But when I go in to pick up a box of plastic robots for a family members birthday present or paint, the last thing I want is to be grilled about why I'm buying it, and then urged to buy another set of other expensive stuff because it works well in the rules or looks good in that hue.

I've worked in various retail/visitor outlets for nearly 7 years and you don't pester the customers. You let them come to you with their queries. I've been informed they are trained to act this way, which is the biggest indication (if any) that whoever runs GW or at least the store front operation doesn't have a clue what they are doing.

I cannot remember when entering a GW was ever any different (well, for the last 22 years of my experience at least) - only in the event that you were reasonably regular or known to the store manager were you ever let off the hook.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 15, 2015, 01:41:36 PM
Quote from: Brummie on June 15, 2015, 11:17:43 AM
My only issue with GW is the experience you get when entering a store.

Its just the endless hassle, sure its been like this for awhile. But when I go in to pick up a box of plastic robots for a family members birthday present or paint, the last thing I want is to be grilled about why I'm buying it, and then urged to buy another set of other expensive stuff because it works well in the rules or looks good in that hue.


I've found that I've been hassled a lot less since they went to one-man stores :) There's still the occasional "hello" as you enter, but not the following you around and trying to engage you in conversation that they used to do.

I find it also helps to pick something up and carry it about, as then they seem less likely to target you. I'm of the age now where they probably think I'm buying for my kids, but with a box of something in my hand, they mostly back off.

Still, it's an experience I avoid unless I'm actively looking for something. As someone prone to "ooh shiny" when browsing, their approach has saved me a small fortune over the years :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 15, 2015, 02:12:49 PM
Honestly, I've never had a problem when going into a GW store. They ask what I'm after, I get it, have a bit of a chat over what I'm working on, ask them about what they're working on and I leave. If they try to get me to spend more (a rare occurrence - maybe they gave up on me?) I just point out that while tempting, I only have x amount of dollars in my wallet at the time. It tends to work. Still, I hear that not everyone's as lucky as me.

Now, given that I'm not prone to wandering the internets and dredging every scrap of GW info I can find, I have to ask what all the fuss about this AoS is? I pretty much know what the abbreviation stands for and that's it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on June 15, 2015, 02:35:12 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 15, 2015, 02:12:49 PM
Honestly, I've never had a problem when going into a GW store. They ask what I'm after, I get it, have a bit of a chat over what I'm working on, ask them about what they're working on and I leave. If they try to get me to spend more (a rare occurrence - maybe they gave up on me?) I just point out that while tempting, I only have x amount of dollars in my wallet at the time. It tends to work. Still, I hear that not everyone's as lucky as me.

Now, given that I'm not prone to wandering the internets and dredging every scrap of GW info I can find, I have to ask what all the fuss about this AoS is? I pretty much know what the abbreviation stands for and that's it.

I'am told/was informed the fuss was primarily to do with them refocusing on a purely skirmish game that was heavily dependent on character figures, with only a few units really being involved.

Thus anyone who'd spent mega-bucks on big armies was being left out in the cold.

Though that said I'd say that's really the way 28mm is going to go all round. Skirmish just seems way more sensible. Being primarily a 6mm-15mm focused I was pretty surprised on how hefty Games Workshop 28mm was. If I tried fitting them on some of my gaming tables/worktops for a game they'd literally be firing point-blank into each other  lol.

However Skirmish orientated I think is just far more alluring. It means less pressure to buy loads of cr*p we don't need, AND more effort can be expended on painting them to a high standard... In theory.

Quote
I too loved the Blood Angels (and had half the company in 6mm scale) in the 90's, but with the coming of 3rd Edition, their background was re-focused into the dreadful rubbish we have now.

Yeah I have half the chapter in 6mm now  :D not finished but nearly!
I do hope GW turn back towards doing smaller scales, EPIC was just awesome (seeing a product in both 28mm and 6mm is brilliant). And although I'm not too bothered by GW fantasy franchise, there is enough of that 10mm stuff in the loft that its probably causing the house to sink.

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That said, if you like Space Marines and the background (and you're after a real nostalgia hit), I highly recommend FW's Horus Heresy series of books and models. Very expensive, but it's easily the best thing put out by the whole of GW for the last decade.

I've heard a lot of good things about the Horus Heresy set of Novels, and I have seen the figures too. Very nice, but crickey, couldn't afford another project right now  lol

Quote
I cannot remember when entering a GW was ever any different (well, for the last 22 years of my experience at least) - only in the event that you were reasonably regular or known to the store manager were you ever let off the hook.  Confused

Now I'm fairly familiar with the store, I just rush in, grab a box, rush to the counter, buy it, say goodbye and then rush out. Fast. Tbh I may be being a tad harsh as the fella who is usually there is fairly light on convo and tends to be fairly on the mark with help/suggestions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 15, 2015, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 15, 2015, 02:12:49 PM
I have to ask what all the fuss about this AoS is? I pretty much know what the abbreviation stands for and that's it.

...Well, that's pretty much it. AoS = Age of Sigmar. Anything beyond that, nobody outside the GW studio knows! And that's exactly why everyone's in a flap really.

The current edition of Fantasy has continued the trend of decreasing sales and popularity, and coupled with The End Times series of supplements that culminate with (literally) blowing up the Warhammer world, people are very apprehensive about what will come next. This is especially true after they expected people who played 8E to buy very large and very expensive armies in order to play.

Quote from: Brummie on June 15, 2015, 02:35:12 PM
I've heard a lot of good things about the Horus Heresy set of Novels, and I have seen the figures too. Very nice, but crickey, couldn't afford another project right now  lol

I was more meaning these (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_Books); they are really nice, but they are really expensive! Maybe keep an eye out for any that come up second-hand.

Quote from: Brummie on June 15, 2015, 02:35:12 PM
Now I'm fairly familiar with the store, I just rush in, grab a box, rush to the counter, buy it, say goodbye and then rush out. Fast. Tbh I may be being a tad harsh as the fella who is usually there is fairly light on convo and tends to be fairly on the mark with help/suggestions.

To be fair, any of the long-term staff in the city centre store know me from over a decade back, and they are normally perfectly polite and normal in their behaviour to me in the store. That they recognise me and remember what I collect (besides GW games) is rather flattering too! It's only the new recruits that approach with all the charm and salemanship of a Servitor. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 15, 2015, 04:46:38 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 15, 2015, 01:25:43 PM
I don't mean anything officially endorsed by GW, but rather something produced and universally acknowledged by the players themselves.

As I said, a lot of the more popular tournaments (ETC format for example) already have a raft of changes to the core rules anyway.

Additionally, the wider gaming community had already taken a lot of the "Specialist Games" away from GW for a while, and re-writes of older games (like NetEpic) have been around for aaages.

In effect, the Community Edition would be like the house rules that a club or your friends might use, but on a worldwide scale - thus eliminating the "problem" of house rules in that everyone's playing a slightly different version of the game from each other, making discussion or pick-up games potentially tricky.

As long as no copyright-able names are used, then there is pretty much nothing that GW can do about it either. The rules mechanics for example cannot be legally protected.


Oooh that I can agree with, I almost put in a large essay about NetEpic, but at work so... ::)

One has to do some work between breaks...

Thats the kind of way I would lean. happily.

As for AoS - ok see it when they release it...

Still plenty of other games and  rules to play with so no big deal.

Is there something else they have done that we can have a go at now instead?

Oh but this sounds a bit positive:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/age-of-sigmar-latest-just-how-different-is-it.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 15, 2015, 09:24:46 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on June 15, 2015, 05:09:15 AM
New players will typically be introduced to whichever rules set is newest and will stay current as that is what's officiated for tournaments etc.

Tournaments are a point, but one that's fairly overstated IMO. Who goes to a GW tournament? Nobody, since GW stopped hosting them. There still are Warhammer tournaments, but from what I hear they tend to come with 'tournament packs' and restrictions, i.e. houserules to change the game into something halfway suitable for tournies, 'cos it wasn't before. What's played is not the standard current rule set.

From the few people I've seen who are most vocal in calling out the 'try another system' argument, I get the impression that the most important thing is pickup games. Turning up at a GW store or GW stockist at any given time and playing whatever other Warhammer player happens to be there at the same time. It is awfully convenient, to be sure, but not so much when the game changes to something you don't like, and the old version is disallowed in-store.
I know what it feels like - something similar happened to me, when the local GW banned Specialist Games and the 'veterans' in quick succession. But maybe that's part of the reason why I get so irritated by some of the moans that it's the end of their gaming hobby. These people have probably played exponentially more games of Warhammer than I have, but from the sounds of things have completely bypassed the part where you introduce yourself to new opponents and get to know regular ones, let alone keep in contact with them in some small way, and even occasionally arrange one or two of those pickup games! Within a couple of weeks of us vets being kicked out of the GW store (a shorter, sharper event than this months-long fretting over the transition from 8th to 9th) just one of our number managed to invite a bunch of us round to his kitchen table, keep us informed of activity in nearby clubs and shops we might not have known of, etc. It beggars belief that it'd be so much more difficult for some of these 8th ed fans to do even a bit of that among themselves, especially with so many others wary of this big, apparent shift to 9th ed skirmish. I can only guess that they're so used to having GW 'do' all this for them, they can't even fathom finding a game some other way, in any other place. Organising something like that must seem like lowering themselves.

There are a couple of other... justifications sometimes added onto that. One is that they simply have no time for anything other than pickup games. Fair enough if it's true, but I still wonder how much of that is a rationalisation to explain their unwillingness to send an email or three. I'm sceptical about that for a bunch of little reasons.

The other is 'support'. Eighth ed is over. GW will stop releasing new stuff for eighth ed. No more things to buy for eighth ed. That means all those established Warhammer players will have to march solemnly to the dumpsters with their complete, viable armi... oh wait a minute...

(Then there's the guy who was quitting before 9th, who asked about the minis-compatible fantasy battles systems out there, then dismissed them all because he'd never heard of them... ::) This is the kind of insular, almost reactionary attitude that GW pickup games have developed, IMO.)

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Also, if we're NOT talking about GW, then "most current" usually means "best" in the sense that problems have been worked out, things have been cleared up and organized, etc. and if you don't know GW, then it's easy for new players to assume the most current rules are the ones with the most work behind them and are in the best shape.

Agreed in general, but for those seeming to follow the GW model, I'm a bit skeptical. (Malifaux, for example, suffered from horrendous power creep as the first edition went on. 2nd ed seemed to iron things out to some extent, but I wonder how many new model releases have had increasingly 'marketable' rules since then? And didn't Battlefront take a bit of a nosedive with some version of Flames of War, or did I dream it?)

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but GW being the gateway drug (of course this is waning) means you get players who aren't used to that idea yet.

My point is that they're gonna hafta get used to it if 9th ed makes them hiss like a vampire presented with a sunny window. :D But that adjustment is nowhere near as harrowing as is often made out, even on the face of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 16, 2015, 08:47:04 AM
All nicely thought out stuff, and this is a nice debate but does it boil down to people being different and wanting different things, and of that a proportion of them don't like change? In that they are comfortable in their insulated space/game as it is.

Its a game, its meant to be a hobby and distraction, we are meant to enjoy, most of us do, although that may well be far broader in scope than just the GW hobby, and there are many ways to enjoy it as such.

Perhaps its also the affect of the version that you first had - lost your innocence to  ;) - like the question about which is your Doctor Who? people tend to fix on the version they grew up with as such - and thats the one they want forever as its the best and screw your changes etc etc.

Or maybe as usual some people are just not happy unless they have something to complain about. Changing from 8th to 9th scratches that itch for them?

So, in that regard it seems as long as I have GW to bitch about sometimes instead of work, on occasion. I am it seems quite happy overall.

Some people perhaps find it difficult to Let it go (oh there's that song for that  :D )

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on June 16, 2015, 10:37:59 AM
I think the only issue with people having problems with new editions, is the obvious factor that Games Workshop needs to make money (its still unique being the only Miniature gaming company to have its own store fronts around the globe) and creating new editions or codexes is a clear way of doing this. So I think in a way, buying into and playing GW products should come with the expectation, at some point they will change things around.

Personally I've always found GW's disposition towards rules and editions to be on par with competative MMORPGs: each patch or edition has no intention of 'balancing' game play or ironing out issues per say, but instead tends to slightly favour one group or faction over another, not enough to make them unbeatable, but enough to make them easier to play and harder to beat, probably as a way to boost sales for that group/faction. Currently it seems everyone now hates Tau or Eldar, because they just obliterate everything from a distance (although I have no experience of this).

That being said I don't buy half the miniatures with the gaming aspect in mind. I purchase them because I like them, building an army that is within the rules is secondary, so GW could completely bulldoze Blood Angels, game wise, tomorrow, it probably won't stop me buying Blood Angels.


It is easier to have a go at GW however, its a far bigger target, that even people who are pretty unfamiliar with the hobby tend to recognise.

AoS could be interesting. As mentioned I was never taken by Games Workshops take on Fantasy, it never really captured my attention, despite having some nice bits and pieces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 16, 2015, 01:52:32 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 15, 2015, 04:29:52 PM
...Well, that's pretty much it. AoS = Age of Sigmar. Anything beyond that, nobody outside the GW studio knows! And that's exactly why everyone's in a flap really.

So...there's nothing concrete to worry about yet? I'll panic when I know what to panic about. I do enough freaking out over what ifs already.

Quote from: Brummie on June 16, 2015, 10:37:59 AM
AoS could be interesting. As mentioned I was never taken by Games Workshops take on Fantasy, it never really captured my attention, despite having some nice bits and pieces.

That's interesting, I'm quite the opposite. There's a few nice things in the 40K line that grab my attention, but not enough to look past the whole 'everything is terrible forever' side of the story. That and no army piques my interest that much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 16, 2015, 02:40:21 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on June 16, 2015, 08:47:04 AM
All nicely thought out stuff, and this is a nice debate but does it boil down to people being different and wanting different things, and of that a proportion of them don't like change? In that they are comfortable in their insulated space/game as it is.

Well yes. But my point is that people who want the old thing don't necessarily have to roll over and accept the major change to the game, their main focus of the hobby, if they can just incorporate a few minor changes to how they get their fix of the old version.

Quote
Perhaps its also the affect of the version that you first had - lost your innocence to  ;) - like the question about which is your Doctor Who? people tend to fix on the version they grew up with as such - and thats the one they want forever as its the best and screw your changes etc etc.

Or maybe as usual some people are just not happy unless they have something to complain about. Changing from 8th to 9th scratches that itch for them?

You might have a point if it was just more rules churn like the change from 6th ed to 7th. Even then, I still don't think people should necessarily blindly accept change because 'it's a game'; like the eventual imbalance of 7th that drove a lot away, or the changes of 8th that drove even more away. (especially the need for bigger units of more expensive minis) It's the view of many that Warhammer is almost 'dead' at this point - or dead enough for GW to give up on it (it might be seen as spectacularly healthy by smaller businesses) - and that the major changes to 9th, that go way beyond rules churn, are a desperate attempt to shore it up and reignite a bit of it's popularity. I don't know if all that can be so easily handwaved as 'folk just like to complain'.

'Cos we've all heard the rumours that 9th ed is going to be a skirmish game set in various bubble universes, but I've just read a loong sneak peek (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1560/643158.page#7907717) that, while still just a rumour (with a bit of reliable backup), brings home just how drastic the changes might be. It reads like an entirely different game and setting, with some familiar names and stat categories. If this is at least partly true, it might draw in new players, but a lot of others are going to be cast adrift, through little fault of their own.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 16, 2015, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: Vermis on June 16, 2015, 02:40:21 PM
Well yes. But my point is that people who want the old thing don't necessarily have to roll over and accept the major change to the game, their main focus of the hobby, if they can just incorporate a few minor changes to how they get their fix of the old version.

Thats clear and I suspect a lot of people like you, me and others, do just that. With an amount of vocal others that don't, and perhaps because they are more vocal, are more noticeable than others who just get on with what they want to do.

Quote from: Vermis on June 16, 2015, 02:40:21 PM
You might have a point if it was just more rules churn like the change from 6th ed to 7th. Even then, I still don't think people should necessarily blindly accept change because 'it's a game'; like the eventual imbalance of 7th that drove a lot away, or the changes of 8th that drove even more away. (especially the need for bigger units of more expensive minis) It's the view of many that Warhammer is almost 'dead' at this point - or dead enough for GW to give up on it (it might be seen as spectacularly healthy by smaller businesses) - and that the major changes to 9th, that go way beyond rules churn, are a desperate attempt to shore it up and reignite a bit of it's popularity. I don't know if all that can be so easily handwaved as 'folk just like to complain'.

'Cos we've all heard the rumours that 9th ed is going to be a skirmish game set in various bubble universes, but I've just read a loong sneak peek (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1560/643158.page#7907717) that, while still just a rumour (with a bit of reliable backup), brings home just how drastic the changes might be. It reads like an entirely different game and setting, with some familiar names and stat categories. If this is at least partly true, it might draw in new players, but a lot of others are going to be cast adrift, through little fault of their own.

GW as usual will do what they want, as with the ruination rained down with previous changes as you mention, that caused players to leave the product, this will do the same. In that their intended target is always primarily new customers/players, they have a proven record of not caring about existing or previous or even loyal customers - only the new  intake matters. Whatever the outcome, and what this AOS product turns out to be, they don't actually care about the impact on the existing customer base, as long as at year end, they can make it look like a success, or blame someone else for its failure if not. Like the licensed LoTR stuff that they quickly abandoned, even before the last movie came out even. Its just more of the same from them, and AoS will be much easier to drop if its not perceived as successful enough.

What in the end does that leave them? 40K? They move a step closer to a company with nothing to its name other than some IPs?

Having written all that bit I took a look at the linked you provided, and as you say if its accurate, oh dear bye-bye WFB, hellloooo completely different game, Please buy and play it with only GW miniatures... On round bases ...


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on June 16, 2015, 08:02:55 PM
Definitely an interesting rumour over there on Dakka.  I guess there are just a few weeks until we find out what exactly is in store.

EDIT: If it is true, Mantic is supposed to be coming out with armylists for 'traditional' fantasy armies, so you can play KoW with your warhammer armies, basically.  My gaming group really likes KoW.  It is fast and simple, you can likely play most of a game without consulting the rulebooks.  No plethora of ridiculous and contradictory special rules for ever. single. army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on June 17, 2015, 09:59:32 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 16, 2015, 01:52:32 PM
So...there's nothing concrete to worry about yet? I'll panic when I know what to panic about. I do enough freaking out over what ifs already.

Here's something concrete for you. All the Warhammer books on the GW website, including the new End Times books, are available until June 26th, then it's Age of Sigmar. Sounds like a complete reset, of the rules at least. I would expect minis to be available until they run out of stock, then perhaps not recast? If you have a burning desire to own a book/mini, maybe get in now before they triple in price on ebay.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 17, 2015, 11:20:50 AM
Well, from what I have managed to piece together from rumours and best guesses is that:

1) The game will return to an "earlier" style of WHFB, in which there are main factions each with mixed forces. For example, all humans will be under one list, and will likely have some other races in their forces selection too.

2) Keeping the the Warhammer name, and using "big names" from their current IP to help transition players to a new game through providing some sense of familiarity. In practical terms, the game will likely be completely different, and despite the use of IP names, the background will be too. So, despite trying to lull you with things that sound familiar, WHFB as we've known it for some 25 years is basically dead.

3) Back in 4/5E ("Herohammer"), the game size was basically 50-60 models plus some heroic characters; nowadays that's the size and composition of one regiment! I think that with that being the height of WHFB's popularity (with 5E winning award for best Fanasty/Sci-Fi game at Origins), that will be the target game size for the new edition. It's much easier to get away with a few 10-16 models units and some heroes in terms of painting and getting started, and it's much easier for GW to justify high prices for centrepiece models.

4) As the LOTR/Hobbit franchise is dying (... is dead), I wouldn't be shocked to see some of those rules mechanics rolled into the new WHFB rules. Not least because lots of people seemed to like them, and because they fit the size and narrative style of game that the new Age Of Sigmar hints at being.

5) Over time, I have no doubt that we'll see spin-off sub-factions from the new aggregated factions. This has recently been done with 40k, and looks like an easy way to cash in and make more models for a limited time without committing to supporting them long-term (which even with the best will in the world, can become a real millstone).

6) All models remaining usable likely means that a human with a spear = a human with a spear, and that's regardless of whether it's a Bret peasant or an Empire state trooper. I'll bet that the aesthetic of any new stuff is rather different to anything existing though, since AOS is a golden opportunity to dump any IP that cannot be easily defended legally whilst at the same time building on that which can.

For me, I suspect that I will just continue to play older (i.e., 4E to 8E) versions of WHFB and stay at that. Even if the new game is fun enough, I have lots of kit for the previous versions of the games and am not really that bothered by a re-imaging of the game into something different. Afterall, I got into other game systems already because I wanted something different, and there's only so much I can buy/store/play!  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 17, 2015, 11:30:40 AM

In the case of GW stuff, they usually get better after they have been abandoned/destroyed/discarded anyway.

To be honest I am thinking more along the lines of "Warhammer Fantasy Battle is DEAD, Long live Warhammer Fantasy Battle".

Failing that there's always Fantasy Warriors  :D
.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on June 17, 2015, 11:32:25 AM
I loved the aesthetic of 4th/5th, with units of 10 elites, or 15 regular troops or maybe 20 horde style units. I also liked the newest version of the rules, seemed more consistent and streamlined than previous sets. The big problem was it was obviously engineered by the bean counters, very destructive, meaning units had to be 50 strong - with the rising prices it simply forced me away. Not played for a couple of years, but I still found the End Times pretty sad really, the destruction of a universe I spent 20 happy years gaming in.  :'(

A new game that returns to older (smaller) units sizes might have some attraction. I can't imagine being interested in the new figures, the recent aesthetic (and continuing price rises) has done nothing for me. If I can get some mileage from my existing collection from the new rules, I will do so, but I doubt it. The new "universe" sounds pretty pathetic really, to me at any rate, so I will probably continue my migration to pastures new. Still searching for that elusive mass fantasy battle ruleset, but I will probably do it with fewer wistful glances over my shoulder.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on June 17, 2015, 01:26:08 PM
Well I mosly play WhFB3 when it comes to WhFB and haven't really kept up with latest editions too much (Have played a few games of 8th and enjoyed them though). Anyway even though that being the case I do like the sound of AoS even if a small fraction of the rumours are true it may get me into a GW store to see what all the fuss is about.

As for armies being cut well I'm used to that too having a Fimir, 'Stealer Cult, Chaos Dwarves, Half Orc armies for many years heh
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on June 17, 2015, 01:44:58 PM
A friend of mine, after reading the latest rumour of a completely new skirmish-based game made the point that GW is likely trying to win back players who switched to games like Warmachine/Hordes.  In my community, there is a very large player base for WM/H and just a handful of WFB players, so I could see some reasoning in that move.  When I have spoken with many warmachine players, they started off as WFB players first.  IMO GW lost a lot of fantasy players to such skirmish games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on June 17, 2015, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: Timbor on June 17, 2015, 01:44:58 PM
A friend of mine, after reading the latest rumour of a completely new skirmish-based game made the point that GW is likely trying to win back players who switched to games like Warmachine/Hordes.  In my community, there is a very large player base for WM/H and just a handful of WFB players, so I could see some reasoning in that move.  When I have spoken with many warmachine players, they started off as WFB players first.  IMO GW lost a lot of fantasy players to such skirmish games.

One of the things that put me of GW and ultimately saw me engage with smaller scales was not necessarily the costs (WH/H is equally as expensive) but the army sizes required to play an average game. WH40Ks 'Apocalypse' rules was pretty much the last stretch for me, it put me of big time, regardless of how much I liked the models.

Same with WHFB, although as I said previously I never found that particular fantasy universe particularly interesting. The need for masses of troops just put me off. If I want big armies I'll do smaller scales now.

Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 16, 2015, 01:52:32 PM
That's interesting, I'm quite the opposite. There's a few nice things in the 40K line that grab my attention, but not enough to look past the whole 'everything is terrible forever' side of the story. That and no army piques my interest that much.

At first I never found it amazing, and I still have my own sci fi setting which takes up the most of my time (so i can rip of everyone elses universes  lol) but I found the more fluff, computer games I played, the more interesting and in depth it got, grim-dark is really just a bit of a melodramatic cover for a universe as twisted as the real one. Which I quite liked, worryingly.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 17, 2015, 03:21:40 PM
I reckon GW should done a Logan's world game similar to necromunda ,but then if they had,they would dropped it like they did necromunda ,dark future ,lotr etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diakon on June 17, 2015, 05:10:15 PM
If it all goes well I hope they consider doing something similar with 4ok too. One of my biggest gripes with modern 40k is the amount of miniatures I have to transport across to my friends house on games night.

As an example my friend recently fielded a blood angels army which included of 4 ten man Tactical squads. At 1500 points. In the old days of 2nd edition (where I started) a ten man Tactical Squad was a solid rock to build your army around. And that would be at 3000 points. A 3000 point Space Marine army would probably consist of 40-50 models. About the same amount of models would cost you 800-900 points now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 17, 2015, 05:42:07 PM
Quote from: Vermis on June 16, 2015, 02:40:21 PM
'Cos we've all heard the rumours that 9th ed is going to be a skirmish game set in various bubble universes, but I've just read a loong sneak peek (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1560/643158.page#7907717) that, while still just a rumour (with a bit of reliable backup), brings home just how drastic the changes might be. .

You know, the new game doesn't sound bad at all from that post.  Full stats for existing units, hopefully a solid ruleset underneath it all, who knows?  Could be good...

Some really stupid names in there though, and waaaay too much fluff - I can do that myself thank you!

ANd as you said, bugger all to do with the past 30 years of WFB...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 18, 2015, 09:25:50 AM
Well games size (number of models) is clearly an issue... In 40k I can field an complete battle company of marines for 1850pts!

The other issue I've increasingly noticed is... A bit more sensitive I guess. That is, as model count has gone up, painting quality (and indeed, instances of fully painted units or armies) has gone down. I personally do struggle with painting lots of models, so I can easily telegraph my own experiences to see why even full assembly of models (including removal of mould lines and such) is something that is a noteworthy goal in its own right. Getting vast numbers of models "done" is higher on the agenda than doing a nicer job for many, and that seems to me to be counter to one of the things that people have historically cited as a key reason why they like WHFB or 40k (that is, the spectacle of lovingly-painted forces clashing in combat on an attractive tabletop).

I don't think that changing WHFB is going to bring back those players who've gone over to other games like WM/H or Infinity really. Aesthetics and nostalgia are powerful motivators, but the longevity of a game/franchise is in the pleasure to be had from modelling, painting, and playing; the first two GW refuses to compete on, and the latter GW refuses to acknowledge as a problem. So even if AOS is rather different from anything GW has done before, I still don't think it will be enough to bring those players back.

Where AOS has more opportunity is in capturing those who are new players - either new to WHFB, to GW, or to wargaming in general. However, looking at LOTR panned out (which shared a lot of the same circumstances as AOS is facing in terms of target audience), I won't hold my breath.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 18, 2015, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 18, 2015, 09:25:50 AM
one of the things that people have historically cited as a key reason why they like WHFB or 40k (that is, the spectacle of lovingly-painted forces clashing in combat on an attractive tabletop).


Isn't that true for ALL miniature wargames players??
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 18, 2015, 04:54:13 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on June 17, 2015, 05:42:07 PM
You know, the new game doesn't sound bad at all from that post.  Full stats for existing units, hopefully a solid ruleset underneath it all, who knows?  Could be good...

Some really stupid names in there though, and waaaay too much fluff - I can do that myself thank you!

Y'know what, I don't disagree. :) My interest was piqued at the mention of alternate activation, for one thing, and any kind of smaller model count has got to be good at GW's prices. (Though the fluff leaves me cold) I'm just banging my head, for the umpteenth time, against the brick wall of the 'stay GW, stay current, or die' attitude that many GW gamers have, encouraged by GW, who've now pulled the rug out from under them.

Maybe I should just worry about meself, and the games I can get in, but it's like walking past hundreds of people trying their best to push open doors that say 'pull' above the handle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 19, 2015, 08:54:37 AM
Quote from: Argonor on June 18, 2015, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 18, 2015, 09:25:50 AM
one of the things that people have historically cited as a key reason why they like WHFB or 40k (that is, the spectacle of lovingly-painted forces clashing in combat on an attractive tabletop).
Isn't that true for ALL miniature wargames players??

Well yes, but it's much easier to achieve when:

1) You have fewer models to paint

2) You don't have to keep changing the models you've finished every few years because of new editions/army books/basing rules/etc.

Plus, other games can claim well-written rules, quick and in-depth gameplay, and a whole host of other things that don't apply to WHFB. Therefore, the visual spectacle of playing with a few hundred painted figures between you is considered a particular highlight of that game rather than a normal expectation for pretty much any other game.

Anyway, I'll wait and see what 9E brings; as I said, I don't hold much hope, but I'm prepared to be pleasantly surprised (!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 19, 2015, 12:11:03 PM
The more that I learn about this, the more I flip between 'this could be kinda cool' and 'nope, nope, so much nope.' Whatever happens happens though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 19, 2015, 12:28:00 PM
Either way it will be very expensive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 19, 2015, 12:30:15 PM
I thought that went without saying, personally.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on June 19, 2015, 01:18:09 PM
The biggest clue in to how it will pan out, in my mind at least, comes from GW themselves. Take a look at their releases for 40k, and for the End Times campaign. Substitute in the name Sigmar. Voila! The future.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 19, 2015, 01:23:19 PM
Quote from: Nord on June 19, 2015, 01:18:09 PM
The biggest clue in to how it will pan out, in my mind at least, comes from GW themselves. Take a look at their releases for 40k, and for the End Times campaign. Substitute in the name Sigmar. Voila! The future.

...Yep.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 19, 2015, 08:59:17 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 19, 2015, 12:30:15 PM
I thought that went without saying, personally.
lol yep.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 25, 2015, 09:11:28 AM
They've released an Android version (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gamesworkshop.warhammernews&hl=en) of their Games Workshop app.

Seems to be pretty much all ads from the comments (to be expected, but still disappointing), and the links all seem to point you to the itunes store to buy books etc.

I would have thought a decent RSS feed would have been more useful, but presumably that's so last year :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 26, 2015, 04:07:42 PM
Mars Alpha Pattern Warlord Titan up for pre-order at ForgeWorld (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/MARS_ALPHA_PATTERN_WARLORD_TITAN.html)

The thing is massive, but I suppose the logic is that if you can afford it, you can afford a table big enough to hold it.

£1240.00 resin kit. But, hey, at least it's not limited edition  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on June 26, 2015, 05:14:04 PM
Preview pics of the new human and chaos figures in the 9th ed WFB starter set have leaked on the interwebz.  Without posting them here, I will state that 40k and fantasy now have the same esthetic, basically.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 26, 2015, 05:45:49 PM
For the goodies - do a search on Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard for the general style, but imagine them in more fantasy armour with hand weapons and shields.  Some of them do indeed have wings and are flying.  So yeah, basically fantasied-up Space Marines.

For the Chaos baddies - same old same old with more bits and spikes and muscles.  A LOT more...

And round bases!

"Space Marine on the shitter" may be the pithiest summary...

BolS WFB rumour thread pages 107-108 for anyone who's interested.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 26, 2015, 05:57:05 PM
Beasts of war has posted a link to the picture of the sigmarites .
Also, apparently a leak from gw says that they will make the rules and starter kit army lists FREE to download. If that's true then the old world really is dead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 26, 2015, 06:55:06 PM
Quote from: zemjw on June 26, 2015, 04:07:42 PM
Mars Alpha Pattern Warlord Titan up for pre-order at ForgeWorld (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/MARS_ALPHA_PATTERN_WARLORD_TITAN.html)

The thing is massive, but I suppose the logic is that if you can afford it, you can afford a table big enough to hold it.

£1240.00 resin kit. But, hey, at least it's not limited edition  ;D

Yeah,but you get free delivery, ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 26, 2015, 07:26:44 PM
Quote from: zemjw on June 26, 2015, 04:07:42 PM
Mars Alpha Pattern Warlord Titan up for pre-order at ForgeWorld (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/MARS_ALPHA_PATTERN_WARLORD_TITAN.html)

The thing is massive, but I suppose the logic is that if you can afford it, you can afford a table big enough to hold it.

£1240.00 resin kit. But, hey, at least it's not limited edition  ;D


Pretty, but ludicroumongous.

Looked for the Age of Sigmar pics on Dakka. Blimey, they really are just fantasy Space Marines! I mean, I've heard the rumours for ages, but the pic really (helden)hammers it home.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 26, 2015, 08:38:57 PM
New stuff looks very... 40K meets Warmahordes... to me.

Wondering if there is going to be some 'extinct' armies up for sale later this or next year.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on June 26, 2015, 08:41:15 PM
40k is nowadays 30k.

FB is now 10k.

Both already use round bases. I can see where this is going.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 26, 2015, 10:10:11 PM
age of Sigmar. Looks crap if those pics are real, which I tend to believe. If I was into GW these days I would be seriously p'd off. If I wanted 40k I would buy 40k, not age of Sigmar which is looking like 40k but with more of a melee focus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on June 27, 2015, 08:30:32 AM
My immediate reaction to those images are 'oh look new space marine assault squad'.
They best continue the current range of warhammer models as otherwise it's the end of the line.
Maybe clan Eshin should send out one of their best assassins to see to the heads of the company...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on June 27, 2015, 09:12:08 AM
In association with Fisher Price ..... it's HordesHammer.

Sad times. End of an era.  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 27, 2015, 09:28:07 AM
Quote from: beefcake on June 26, 2015, 10:10:11 PM
age of Sigmar. Looks crap if those pics are real, which I tend to believe. If I was into GW these days I would be seriously p'd off. If I wanted 40k I would buy 40k, not age of Sigmar which is looking like 40k but with more of a melee focus.

Quote from: Scurv on June 26, 2015, 10:14:28 PM
I think beefys bile is pretty spot on

Absolutely - spot on.

Expect the the GW website blurb to now mention "XXX multipart boxed set makes x many troops" and "all parts are compatible with 40K minis to enable GW hobbyists to buy both and customise" ....

Still if it fails they can stick a backpack sprue in the box and call them Space Sigmarines.

The chaos stuff will be just fine as is.

Well done GW you now only do Warhammer
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 27, 2015, 09:42:33 AM
Pretty much agree there Scurv.

Its sad to see it go down the specialist game chute.

Still, the old rules are still going to be around regardless what they do.

Now a Force of bright blue Sigmarines... that's  an idea - with gold trim, Bolter-Hammers and big shields... But can I afford them?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: affun on June 27, 2015, 09:50:36 AM
Quote from: Scurv on June 27, 2015, 09:29:03 AM
what really killed warhammer though?

I suspect it was the fact they could not protect their very generic IP warhammer IP from the hordes of imitators. Same deal with all the new look 40k being bought in to further buffer that IP.

The stupid pricing just added fuel to that particular fire as well as the imitators goods were often cheaper despite not having the mass manufacturing capability of GW.

Death by underpriced 'not' figures in my opinion.

My opinion is that it is a result of long periods of neglect and awful rules writing. Army doesn't sell because its rules are awful and old, doesn't get updated because it doesn't sell. Etc.
I don't think its fair to "blame" imitators for the "failure" of fantasy; if GW had (did) provide a competitive product, people would probably buy it. GW doesn't, in my opinion, even though they definitely have the capital to do.
What killed fantasy for me? I find the game incredibly noisy and boring. "Roll this fistful of 34 dice, remove these 20 figures. You cant do that because rule x says that y". It grew too focused on spectacle, and its market focus shifted to something I just did not like. I remember reading a blurb with a GW designer saying that "rolling dice is fun, rolling LOTS of dice is LOTS of fun", and that is the core of the systems problems to me.

Along with this shift of the system, their miniatures have gotten more and more overdesigned as the years go by, as if the amount of detail had to justify the price. Plastic Nagash was hideous, but these new ones  ::)
There's too much crap on gw minis, and I hate painting them for that reason. They are like a colouring book in miniature form: Fill in the colours, but no space to do you own stuff. And it takes ages to finish to a decent standard, which is not good when you need ridiculous amounts of miniatures to play.

I think that the notion that fantasy "failed" is a bit weird, though. Fantasy failed, in the eyes of the company (We guess), because it wasn't making enough profit. 'enough' being the keyword. So they go and rebrand and redesign. The problem is that their redesign is so incredible inept, and unnecessary. As of now, it likes like yet another company not understanding what the good parts of their product were, and thus emphasizing the wrong ones.

I used to like warhammer because when my opponent showed up with a dragon, I had an army of poor bastards with halberds, cannons and grit to fight it. I guess you can say that it had a certain grounded-ness to its fantastical side. A grounded-ness it was easier to identify with, and create stories about. Now its all about big huge heroes fighting big huge monsters. The problem with spectactle though, is that it looses its effect if everything is spectacular.

I remain curious to see the new ruleset - if nothing else, then because I've been basing my fantasy-miniatures on round bases for a long time now - but I do not expect much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 27, 2015, 09:55:53 AM
It's sad, though.
Warhammer was my second wargame, but the first I ever played, and the one I am most familiar with. 3 or 4 editions back I loved it to bits, took part in tournaments, and collected all the races barring Ogre Kingdoms. All these are now obsolete - well, not really, as I can still use them with my rule sets or with alternative rules. But even though I had long since given up keeping up with rulesbooks and editions, it's sad to know it's official development and support have been stopped.
It went out with a whimper in the end.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on June 27, 2015, 10:01:39 AM
Quote from: affun on June 27, 2015, 09:50:36 AM
I think that the notion that fantasy "failed" is a bit weird, though. Fantasy failed, in the eyes of the company (We guess), because it wasn't making enough profit. 'enough' being the keyword. So they go and rebrand and redesign. The problem is that their redesign is so incredible inept, and unnecessary. As of now, it likes like yet another company not understanding what the good parts of their product were, and thus emphasizing the wrong ones.

I used to like warhammer because when my opponent showed up with a dragon, I had an army of poor bastards with halberds, cannons and grit to fight it. I guess you can say that it had a certain grounded-ness to its fantastical side. A grounded-ness it was easier to identify with, and create stories about. Now its all about big huge heroes fighting big huge monsters. The problem with spectactle though, is that it looses its effect if everything is spectacular.

Weird that Warhammer Fantasy "failed", while Oldhammer is going from strength to strength, isn't it? I guess people will just play what they enjoy, despite a company's wishes or desires. People don't need to be told what they want, they already know, it's up to the company to provide it, if they wish to make a buck.

I have to agree on the grounded-ness being the appeal, I loved the fact that near-historical humans had to contend with all those monsters and belligerent fantasy races on their doorstep.
This new design is like wallpapering your walls, floor and ceiling with Heavy Metal album covers and then upholstering your rococo furniture with 2000A.D. cover art. Total overload.

"Welcome to GW, we have Warhammer 40K, 40K Out-of-Ammo edition, and don't mind that Hobbit bleeding out in the corner..."  o_o

This...This..this Age of SigMarines just proved GW's statement in the last investor report is true, they don't do market research.

I want humans in my fantasy, not gold-plated roid-apes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on June 27, 2015, 10:09:06 AM
Well this does look like it will be disappointing after all. And they may as well be Space Marines, given the mention of 'God King'. They're pulling that one again then things are bound to get dull.

I think the original problem as has been mentioned, with Warhammer was its generic IP. I think that's the problem with a lot of fantasy overall; it rarely deviates from the norm, I.E Orcs, Goblins, Elves etc or even attempt to impose characteristics on those races that are unusual. Or alternatively things are made far too unusual that no one can relate to the content and it gets off putting. My biggest complaint with most fantasy backgrounds is the lack of variety or the presence of a considerable 'grey' area.

Fantasy also suffers from a certain level of prejudice that Science Fiction has managed to largely relieve itself from. Fantasy is still seen as the domain of the stereotypical nerd, with few exceptions; Game of Thrones made fantasy far more acceptable as it very readily introduced themes that people don't generally expect from a fantasy genre.

However of course with tabletop gaming, unless you attach say a game to a particular world that did what GoT did (admittedly GoT is pretty tame in the monsters department, but they may have added to its success) people are just going to see it as being pretty unexciting stuff.

Maybe with the upcoming release of Warhammer: Total War, more interest would have been generated in the franchise, but we won't now know as they're clearly scrapping it  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on June 27, 2015, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: affun on June 27, 2015, 09:50:36 AM
I used to like warhammer because when my opponent showed up with a dragon, I had an army of poor bastards with halberds, cannons and grit to fight it. I guess you can say that it had a certain grounded-ness to its fantastical side. A grounded-ness it was easier to identify with, and create stories about. Now its all about big huge heroes fighting big huge monsters. The problem with spectactle though, is that it looses its effect if everything is spectacular.

This exactly. The last few years has seen them turn the Warhammer world's aesthetic in a direction I hugely dislike. Now with these new (fucking shit) miniatures and this new fluff, there really is nothing to relate to. Gods/Demi-Gods fighting other Gods/Demi-Gods really doesn't interest me at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 27, 2015, 10:35:24 AM
Meh, if I don't end up liking the new stuff, I'll play what I've got where I like with who I like. If I buy more GW stuff, so be it. If I don't, there's plenty of plastic crack out there. Less time spent complaining leads to more painting for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on June 27, 2015, 10:52:55 AM
I've been informed that the WHFB stuff will not be discontinued and you'll still be able to buy all the original factions minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 27, 2015, 12:24:25 PM
The proximal problem is that GW are putting up to half their effort into a game that brings in 1/12 of their revenue.  And specifically, takes up half the space in those high-cost, fixed-lease shops that are not even making back their costs.  The actual manufacture and distribution of GW minis is wildly profitable (costs are £0.19 in the £).

The deeper reasons?  I'd have to agree that costs and army size are big culprits.  

The competition sells full games MUCH cheaper now, boardgames got REALLY good (components, expansions and lightness of rules), Kickstarters - when they work - offer much more bang for a big spend.  

No marketing or advertising.

Learning the wrong lessons from the Chapterhouse court case (total paranoia) and the LotR "bubble" years (made a mint but didn't plan for the end of the free advertising).

This new game?  Minis don't do it for me, but I can see their appeal.  It's a very "modern" fantasy aesthetic.  I'll be giving the rules a look though.  And I honestly hope they have a success with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on June 27, 2015, 01:16:24 PM
TBH, I think this will likely be profitable for them.

I live in North America, so medieval/renaissance european history is not really taught here unless you seek it out specifically.   There is no personal connection to it - you can't drive a couple hours around and find physical evidence of that era. I like the landsknecht look now because I got into WFB as a kid and then learned about it later.  However, as a kid I always was kinda miffed that there were never the 'good' equivalent of chaos knights - I wanted paladins!

Had I been 12 years old and seen this, I would have been excited about it most likely.  This is just like today's movies - lots of OTT details and such with a debatable amount of substance. 

I would say as long as GW doesn't botch the rules and they don't go too crazy with the pricing, this will sell better than WFB in its current form. (Albeit, that may be a tall order since this is GW we are talking about).

I do not like this version of Fantasy, but as has been mentioned, there are lots of alternatives.  Also, Kings of War is immensely fun.  As a friend of mine said - it is everything he wanted WFB to be. Fun, straightforward, and fast!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on June 27, 2015, 01:49:49 PM
I don't buy the IP argument at all. If they wanted to make some new unique IP that was un-copyable, why have they released a Hordes/Warcraft range. I would not be surprised if they are accused of copyright theft! Blaming copyers for the death of fantasy is just a smokescreen.

GW greed (shareholder responsibilities) killed Warhammer Fantasy. They redesigned the game (8th edition) to require the player to build big blocks of infantry, to survive in the new environment of everything-dies (basically, shooting, melee became twice as potent as previous versions, and magic upped the power level too). At the same time, boxsets were re-packaged, from 15 or 20 figures down to 10, with price increases to boot. Then when those failed to sell, they introduced monsters and other big kits, with associated super killy rules. The when they failed to sell, they upped the power even more with Storm of Magic and then End Times.

I realise that the company has to make a profit, but they backed themselves into a corner from which there was no escape. If you believe the figures, the revenue on the fantasy range was about a fifth of the total. That's still over £20 million per annum! But it was not enough. They would much rather have the same effect that space marines have, which apparently generate over half the revenue.

If you like marines and their ilk, the future is bright. But even if there are mass battle rules to come in the next few weeks, the prices are only going to be on the 40k scale, so I can't see a future in terms for it. As an alternative to Warmahordes, I can see it doing well. As a replacement for WHFB, then it's over to mantic or Shieldwolf or Hail Sauron or whoever else can come up with a ruleset that sticks with the community.

32 years, a good run, but time to say goodbye.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 27, 2015, 03:13:19 PM
Quote from: Nord on June 27, 2015, 01:49:49 PM
That's still over £20 million per annum! But it was not enough. They would much rather have the same effect that space marines have, which apparently generate over half the revenue.

I believe WFB's share has dropped to 8% in recent years.  Still up to £10 million, which anyone would be happy with, but the difference between GW and their competitors is GW's chain of shops.  

If WFB is doing that badly, then half the (already paid-for) shop space is wasted - they NEED something that sells to get the shops back into profit.

You're right on the reasons WFB is doing so badly, and right to say that it's purely GW's fault they've backed themselves into a corner.  So this is it - this is their answer.  Fantasy marines and a series of games that is rumoured to scale up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 27, 2015, 05:13:38 PM
Well to be honest the only thing that's got me worried is I have the tune of "Yellow Submarine" going round and round in my head, but with different words, based around "Yellow SigMarines".

Regardless the actually reasons - profit/loss, ip, competition, re-sellers, bits sellers, customers, their shops, independent retailers, its their problem. I can continue buying other their or other companies stuff, if theirs is either unobtainably expensive, not actually any good, overdesigned, etc, does not matter, plenty other good stuff around.

Myabe see what they themselves sight in the next annual/quarterly report thingy.

Perhaps I should have had less wine with my Barbecue today...

Nope, perhaps it should have been MORE, that's something I can fix, let me go do that  :D

 Yellow Sigmarines, yellow Sigmarines, hmhmhm..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 27, 2015, 05:43:49 PM
Quote from: Brummie on June 27, 2015, 10:52:55 AM
I've been informed that the WHFB stuff will not be discontinued and you'll still be able to buy all the original factions minis.

It would be folly for them to discontinue the old sets since one of the primary uses is other people using GW bits for conversions and other games. IP issues or not, that's still a huge part of the WFB revenue stream.

Were they to go whole hog on the new stuff and discontinue the old kits entirely I suspect the overall sales for WFB would crater.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: axabrax on June 27, 2015, 06:06:29 PM
+1

We have had some big WFB clubs in my area and I have never ever seen anyone playing with knock off models. The reality is that people loved the old models.

In my opinion the problem is bad, overly complex rules, the high  number of models take forever to paint, and the ridiculously high prices. The models and the background are what made the game awesome and that's what they killed. One seriously has to wonder if people making decisions at this company even play the game.

By the way,  regarding the comment that North Americans aren't taught European history, I live in North America, and in colleges in the U.S,  History of Western Civilization is a required class, and includes quite a lot of European history, so that is absolutely not true here.



Quote from: Nord on June 27, 2015, 01:49:49 PM
I don't buy the IP argument at all. If they wanted to make some new unique IP that was un-copyable, why have they released a Hordes/Warcraft range. I would not be surprised if they are accused of copyright theft! Blaming copyers for the death of fantasy is just a smokescreen.

GW greed (shareholder responsibilities) killed Warhammer Fantasy. They redesigned the game (8th edition) to require the player to build big blocks of infantry, to survive in the new environment of everything-dies (basically, shooting, melee became twice as potent as previous versions, and magic upped the power level too). At the same time, boxsets were re-packaged, from 15 or 20 figures down to 10, with price increases to boot. Then when those failed to sell, they introduced monsters and other big kits, with associated super killy rules. The when they failed to sell, they upped the power even more with Storm of Magic and then End Times.

I realise that the company has to make a profit, but they backed themselves into a corner from which there was no escape. If you believe the figures, the revenue on the fantasy range was about a fifth of the total. That's still over £20 million per annum! But it was not enough. They would much rather have the same effect that space marines have, which apparently generate over half the revenue.

If you like marines and their ilk, the future is bright. But even if there are mass battle rules to come in the next few weeks, the prices are only going to be on the 40k scale, so I can't see a future in terms for it. As an alternative to Warmahordes, I can see it doing well. As a replacement for WHFB, then it's over to mantic or Shieldwolf or Hail Sauron or whoever else can come up with a ruleset that sticks with the community.

32 years, a good run, but time to say goodbye.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on June 27, 2015, 06:25:11 PM
I did like the Old Empire Models, the first plastic sets were brilliant as well! Still have a load of them in the loft, as they are spot on for historicals as well.

However the newer Empire figures were just plain awful imo. Although other factions stuff definitly improved looks wise, Empire just went down hill and stayed there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 27, 2015, 07:43:18 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on June 27, 2015, 05:13:38 PM
Regardless the actually reasons - profit/loss, ip, competition, re-sellers, bits sellers, customers, their shops, independent retailers, its their problem.

You can turn that round and say that a company has to make what it knows will sell.  If that's not to your liking, that's your problem ;)  Sure you're heartbroken...

Rumour is there will be free army lists for existing armies and a free rules outline for the new game.  And if the current models are still going to be sold, folks can complete armies and continue to play older editions.

And people who don't buy are not anyone's market.

Don't get me started on Yellow Submarine - when I was learning Japanese, we translated a lot of song lyrics for practice and then had to sing them.  Guess what my worst effort was?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on June 27, 2015, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: axabrax on June 27, 2015, 06:06:29 PM

In my opinion the problem is bad, overly complex rules, the high  number of models take forever to paint, and the ridiculously high prices. The models and the background are what made the game awesome and that's what they killed. One seriously has to wonder if people making decisions at this company even play the game.

By the way,  regarding the comment that North Americans aren't taught European history, I live in North America, and in colleges in the U.S,  History of Western Civilization is a required class, and includes quite a lot of European history, so that is absolutely not true here.



I heard it said before that they specifically hire people who do not play the game... possibly to keep them from leaking information?  I dunno.

Note that you said College.  First off, not everyone goes to College, and most people (ie the target audience) would get into this hobby before college so I don't see how effective that would be in making people relate to the WFB setting.  Also, I doubt that every single degree in college requires a western civilization course.  Perhaps your arts/english/history degree will, but science, engineering, nursing, sports medicine, business, math, etc?  I doubt it.

In high school and university my focus was on science, and some languages.  I very easily avoided such history classes because I did not need/want to take them for my preferred career path.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 27, 2015, 09:23:05 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on June 27, 2015, 07:43:18 PM
You can turn that round and say that a company has to make what it knows will sell.  If that's not to your liking, that's your problem ;)  Sure you're heartbroken...

True  :)

Will sit back and see, whatever they come out with, and the fact the models can be easily reused for 40k, Ok. :D

Quote from: Momotaro on June 27, 2015, 07:43:18 PM
Don't get me started on Yellow Submarine - when I was learning Japanese, we translated a lot of song lyrics for practice and then had to sing them.  Guess what my worst effort was?

Just can't get Sigmarines out of my head, and thinking color schemes, silly I know. One of those days.

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 27, 2015, 11:23:35 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on June 27, 2015, 09:23:05 PM
Will sit back and see, whatever they come out with, and the fact the models can be easily reused for 40k, Ok. :D

Good advice - I shall take it  :)

Quote
Just can't get Sigmarines out of my head, and thinking color schemes, silly I know. One of those days.

And their enemies, the Blue UltraMeanies  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: harleyface on June 28, 2015, 12:02:27 AM
Just would like to add a comment about school.
Know not much about  American history classes...but if its the same like here in Germany 20 years ago than its not very good....
Was in German Gymnasium..College...?
I learned hours of the third Reich....learned how evil we were..learned a lot about Napoleon era
Pearl Harbour was ten minutes....
Civil War...learned there was one....5 minutes...
Everything i know now 20 years later i learned because i read books and watched documetrys...
Personaly i think its quiet the same in us  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on June 28, 2015, 12:03:14 AM
Vlad and I played a delightful game of WFB yesterday, in a local GW store. The whole thing was quite strange as before I got there I saw the sigmarines and the possible new direction (aka the butt end of fantasy).

The first 2 hours saw us greeting each other, Vlad carefully extricating his 5000pts of lizardmen, and I spent 2 hours figuring out magic equipment for my 3000pt bretonnians. (I'm a bad person, I know I should have prepped first) but that's ages!!!

The store manager was kind enough to let me use Sengennaru's non GW 'scratch built' trebuchets. (I was expecting they would be banned)

A few guys came and looked at our fully painted armies, and one older 40k player said 'I haven't seen bretonnians in ages'. (That's cause they haven't been updated in 2 versions! Who knows what their point cost should be - and anyone new to WFB would need to source key current edition models from eBay as they are frequently not on the GW online shop.)

All the while sigmarines were mocking from their demigod space world. What crap looking gold blood angels with hammers.

oh.. and the price of kits in store starts at $41 for anything.. and goes up from there.  o_o I bought my $7 small pot of paint and left. With prices like that, and targeting a younger 12yo male audience - only the upper middle class/rich parents could afford to give their kids the plastic crack their kids demand. Their pricing structure doesn't make sense to me. Unless they expect their target audience to sell their kidney for each new army update. Kids these days have 5 kidneys right?

Cheers
Matt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 28, 2015, 02:15:15 AM
Last I checked, the paints were six bucks a pot. Also, I would have been quicker if I wasn't totally paranoid about breaking stuff (which I did)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 28, 2015, 02:54:48 AM
Your probably onto something with the name Sigmarines. I reckon someone was writing some Empire fluff and misspelled Sigmarite, told head office and then the whole End Times stuff became all geared towards that  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 28, 2015, 10:23:32 AM
Wellll, considering the Skaven are now running round with Gatling gun breasted ratogres in knocked off space marine Devastatorish armor...

I don't see it being far fetched to see crossover games..

Skaven v UltraMeanies etc - AOS 40K.

That way the next edition rule books boxed limited edition set can combine both "fantasy" and "sci-fi fantasy" battle rules all together and change over to hexagonal bases at the same time.

Then everybody can pop out of whichever "For the Emporer!!" bubble universe they like and take a pop at each other in each other's bubble. Sounds fair.

Probably need to get rid of the 40K thing though (quick have another END TIMES only in the far future), call it something more modern and catchy like " Age of Emporer" he can use his great powers to rise up from Goldythrown and re-create the 40K Universe in AOE Bubbles.

Then the books can just be titled AOS/AOE or something.
 
Don't forget - Hex bases - First mentioned here.... ;D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 28, 2015, 01:33:52 PM
I was wondering about the Skaven as they're supposed to be next up after Sigmarines and Chaos.  Thank you for reminding me about the rat ogres, thank you very bloody much   lol

Another rumour is that "Age of Steel" will be the fantasy mass-battle game coming out later in the year.  How they fit that in with the rumoured Horus Heresy, Genestealer vs Deathwatch, Raven Guard vs Tau and Dark Angels vs Daemonkin boxed sets is anyone's guess  ;D

Probably release it just after the Sisters of Battle plastics  ;)

Come to think of it, if GW do go for more cheap introductory boxed sets... hmmm, may not be a bad move.

*sigh* How can companies like Fantasy Flight Games tell us their plans for the 40k RPGs three years in advance, but GW have us guessing about a game coming out in a fortnight?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 28, 2015, 01:41:23 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on June 28, 2015, 01:33:52 PM
*sigh* How can companies like Fantasy Flight Games tell us their plans for the 40k RPGs three years in advance, but GW have us guessing about a game coming out in a fortnight?

It's a way to get everyone excited, hyped up and considering the option of not eating this week. FFG tells you things and gets you excited, GW doesn't tell you things and the walls of the internet crumble as folks charge every which way after half-truths and pseudo-rumours. The fellow looking after my local GW store said he once met a guy who complained about changes that he thought were going to be made to the dark angels...which didn't end up being true.

On another note, all this talk of 40K ratmen reminds me of a skavenesque 40k race I heard about once. Gone the way of the squats, I assume.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 28, 2015, 01:44:26 PM
Hrud?
Space skaven vs gene stealers hmmm o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on June 28, 2015, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 28, 2015, 01:41:23 PM
It's a way to get everyone excited, hyped up and considering the option of not eating this week. FFG tells you things and gets you excited, GW doesn't tell you things and the walls of the internet crumble as folks charge every which way after half-truths and pseudo-rumours.

Well, not being a millionaire playboy philantropist, I need to plan my hobby purchases in advance. Not knowing what to plan for, means not allotting budget for it... resulting in no purchases from me for new or (as a result) limited GW releases. No buy-in results in no excitement. I can't imagine I'm the only one in this. 
I don't mind anymore, I've found other companies and games/projects more deserving of my money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on June 28, 2015, 07:52:06 PM
I agree with Affun and Nord pretty much.

If you ask me they have screwed themselves with their focus on Lord of the rings. The great lord of the rings games and setting blew warhammer fantasy out of the water. Not only that but the sculpts on the lord of the rings stuff where much better while the sculpts on warhammer fantasy have become steadily  worse and worse.
Which made their Warhammer fantasy line struggle.
Its not because the game system was bad.

I dont really think their solution of throwing out the system and making a new one will do anything to fix their problems.

To fix it they should go back to basics. Hire Jes Godwin level of sculptors, create a solid battle system with familiar concepts. Hire good authors without any fan bias to write their fluff and gamers will flock to warhammer again.

Quality sells.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on June 28, 2015, 08:44:45 PM
They recently hired top-notch sculptors (some french in there) : I don't think the sculptors are the problem here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 28, 2015, 10:28:23 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on June 28, 2015, 10:23:32 AM

Don't forget - Hex bases - First mentioned here.... ;D


58mm hex bases, for sure  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 29, 2015, 02:05:08 AM
I think GW hold off showing you their product until the last minute for IP reasons. It gives their competitors less time to produce something before the official release so they are the only one selling the official product until the copycats produce the cheaper stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Roddy on June 29, 2015, 09:57:18 AM
Mantic already have the basilean stuff which is pretty close already.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on June 29, 2015, 10:02:11 AM
When I see the new GW stuff I'm reminded of Tropic Thunder:

NEVER GO FULL RETARD!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 29, 2015, 01:32:54 PM
I find it amazing how many replies this thread has had lately over us knowing nothing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 29, 2015, 01:44:10 PM
There has been a food of info onto BoLS , and golem painting studio posted the staff memo on their facebook page.
There's also a rumor of the next white dwarf coming with a sigmarite miniature, which means i will probably buy white dwarf for the first time in about 3 years.

The press release notes that the game has only 4 pages of basic rules, can be played with a handful of models (their words, not mine!) but can be expanded to include old armies.All old armies are still going to be updated (all books) and supported by gw, but AoS is going to be the main focus of their fantasy sales from now on.

Honestly, If the rules look interesting , i might play some test games, and if they go well then who knows, i could be tempted to drop some money on the starter kit.

Those are some BIG ifs tho.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 29, 2015, 02:09:25 PM
Quote from: nic-e on June 29, 2015, 01:44:10 PM
All old armies are still going to be updated (all books) and supported by gw, but AoS is going to be the main focus of their fantasy sales from now on.

This is good, but it smells a lot like everything older hammer is headed very slowly at first, down the specialist game tube - hey you LoTR games, get out of the way! the hammer is coming down.

Quote from: nic-e on June 29, 2015, 01:44:10 PM
The press release notes that the game has only 4 pages of basic rules, can be played with a handful of models (their words, not mine!).

This is also good, as with the leaked content lists, there are not all that many models in the box to start with.

Well its nearly the 4th July, and hey, it might be  a really good game!

If the next White Dwarf actually has a free mini on the front (assume the weekly version), are they putting the price up?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 29, 2015, 03:16:56 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on June 29, 2015, 02:09:25 PM
This is good, but it smells a lot like everything older hammer is headed very slowly at first, down the specialist game tube - hey you LoTR games, get out of the way! the hammer is coming down.

This is also good, as with the leaked content lists, there are not all that many models in the box to start with.

Well its nearly the 4th July, and hey, it might be  a really good game!

If the next White Dwarf actually has a free mini on the front (assume the weekly version), are they putting the price up?

They never used to put the price up when they had mini's in the magazine, although the last one i remember was an assault on black reach terminator/nob, so they may have scrapped that policy.considering white dwarf is now 1/5th the size it was back then and almost double the price, i doubt even the price settlers at gw would be such skinflints.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on June 29, 2015, 07:47:27 PM
Quote from: Barbarian on June 28, 2015, 08:44:45 PM
They recently hired top-notch sculptors (some french in there) : I don't think the sculptors are the problem here.

Having top notch sculptors won't help you if your design is cack..... :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 29, 2015, 08:04:37 PM
Quote from: Modhail on June 29, 2015, 07:47:27 PM
Having top notch sculptors won't help you if your design is cack..... :?

That. :) I don't think the execution of the sculpting, even on these AoS minis, is too bad. It's just that some of the designs of the sculpts increasingly look designed by committee, to 'get down with the kidz' and what they're buying from PP, Wyrd, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 29, 2015, 08:56:45 PM
Yes. Agreed.

I wonder if at the moment they are saying (or will be saying when it becomes official) that they are supporting both ranges. Then they will at a later date decide which is selling better and scrap the other line. Sounds like something GW would do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 29, 2015, 09:45:00 PM
Don't really know what they'll do 'til, as people say, they do it. But from all accounts Warhammer was this close to being sent to the knackers yard, and one of the reasons was the huge buy-in for 8th ed armies. Warhammer did need a smaller-scale entry game, but if faced with the invitation to swell their armies to 8th ed size, I'm not sure how many players will go for it, rather than say 'nah, I'm good'. Especially with the switch to round bases, which I've heard some players say they'll switch their existing minis to. I don't think they needed to scrap their old, well-liked background to do it either. (Even if it had started to go a bit 'Poochie') I don't even think they needed to scrap their old background 'cos bad, nasty, wicked people like Chapterhouse might 'steal' landsknechts, elves and broostmen off them.

I'd heard the old ranges would still be available and given one-off rules to make them compatible with the new game, but otherwise 'unsupported' - i.e. not given the 'buy this new thing to stay current!' treatment. So maybe old players (the ones whose numbers had dropped uncomfortably low for GW) will still dip into the old range for their armies or new warbands, but I have a feeling new players might stick with the newer range for the new background. (For one thing, it seems like an awful lot of GW fans really like the 'buy this new thing to stay current!' treatment.)
With the lack of that particular form of support, it's starting to sound like a Specialist Games situation. And we know what happened there.

I dunno. There are advantages to wiping the slate clean and starting a new, smaller game with these big, shiny models (Sometimes it seems people go for other games and rules just 'cos of the big, shiny models); but to me it seems like there are a lot of missteps too, that could potentially nobble this game before it's even released. It feels like watching The Apprentice where these supposed high-fliers come up with daft, overwrought decisions to basic business problems, and you're wincing and groaning 'don't do that, you numpty!' at the screen. Then it blows up in their faces.
But maybe that's my problem - an armchair Alan Sugar. I don't know what'll happen, but I'm still sceptical.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 30, 2015, 01:29:17 AM
Quote from: nic-e on June 29, 2015, 01:44:10 PM
There has been a food of info onto BoLS , and golem painting studio posted the staff memo on their facebook page.

You don't say? Seems like everyone's been running around like headless chooks to me, but that could just be my desire to not have a decent chunk of my high school days ruined.

Quote from: nic-e on June 29, 2015, 03:16:56 PM
They never used to put the price up when they had mini's in the magazine, although the last one i remember was an assault on black reach terminator/nob, so they may have scrapped that policy.considering white dwarf is now 1/5th the size it was back then and almost double the price, i doubt even the price settlers at gw would be such skinflints.

Double? It's about half where I live, but I agree that it is much, much smaller. Four turn batreps don't really do it for me.

Quote from: Vermis on June 29, 2015, 09:45:00 PM
I'd heard the old ranges would still be available and given one-off rules to make them compatible with the new game, but otherwise 'unsupported' - i.e. not given the 'buy this new thing to stay current!' treatment.

That I like. There wasn't anything worse for me than thinking that I had everything I could possibly want for my lizardmen army, then a new update with shiny things came along. If that's the way it goes, I might just be okay with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 30, 2015, 04:31:54 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 30, 2015, 01:29:17 AM
You don't say? Seems like everyone's been running around like headless chooks to me

That would not be an unfair evaluation.

Quote
Double? It's about half where I live

Aye, it's half the price, but four times as frequent.  :D

Quote
There wasn't anything worse for me than thinking that I had everything I could possibly want for my lizardmen army, then a new update with shiny things came along. If that's the way it goes, I might just be okay with it.

I used to be mad into tyranids, but I couldn't easily put a name to half of all the new niddy thingies GW have released since I dropped out in 4th. It just feels too exhausting to get back into now...

About the free WD mini: wouldn't mind getting that for a looksee, but the challenge is getting into a GW store in a timely manner before they've all been swooped on. What week was that WD supposed to be out?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on June 30, 2015, 05:30:03 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on June 27, 2015, 07:43:18 PM
Don't get me started on Yellow Submarine - when I was learning Japanese, we translated a lot of song lyrics for practice and then had to sing them.  Guess what my worst effort was?

Kiro no sensuikan?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on June 30, 2015, 08:52:52 AM
Latest from BOLS (sorry gents, but sometimes these things have to be done, be brave):-

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/age-of-sigmar-world-background-more-rules.html (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/age-of-sigmar-world-background-more-rules.html)

Sounds like Mr Mersey has been moonlighting in Nottingham!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 30, 2015, 09:02:31 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on June 30, 2015, 05:30:03 AM
Kiro no sensuikan?

Yup.  First line of the chorus is:

Watashitachi wa kiroi sensuikan ni sunde imasu

I realise you'd leave out watashitachi wa in everyday Japanese, but I wanted to emphasise "We all"

Now YOU try fitting it to the tune ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 30, 2015, 09:06:55 AM
Quote from: Vermis on June 30, 2015, 04:31:54 AM
I used to be mad into tyranids, but I couldn't easily put a name to half of all the new niddy thingies GW have released since I dropped out in 4th.

"Veined throbbing monster" would cover several of them.  "Uterine drop-pod" will do the rest  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 30, 2015, 09:17:33 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 30, 2015, 01:29:17 AM
You don't say? Seems like everyone's been running around like headless chooks to me, but that could just be my desire to not have a decent chunk of my high school days ruined.

Watching Warseer and Dakka over the past few days, I swear some folks are going to explode before the weekend...

As one of the a-holes who has been moaning for years that GW needs to make a game where you can buy a box or two of models, assemble them and start playing, I'm pleasantly astonished by this turn of events.

The meat (and success) of the game is going to lie in the unit stat cards, sorry Warscrolls, and how you build an army from them, so I guess I'll be downloading them all come Thursday.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 30, 2015, 11:36:25 AM
Interesting. I may pick up the WD from an only seller. No hobby stores within 10km stock WD.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 30, 2015, 12:05:35 PM
Quote from: Nord on June 30, 2015, 08:52:52 AM
Latest from BOLS (sorry gents, but sometimes these things have to be done, be brave):-

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/age-of-sigmar-world-background-more-rules.html (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/age-of-sigmar-world-background-more-rules.html)

Sounds like Mr Mersey has been moonlighting in Nottingham!

Honestly, some of that stuff seems...not all that bad! I mean, there's still a lot of questions to answer, but I foresaw it being a lot worse than that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on June 30, 2015, 01:01:38 PM
Depends what you want from a game I guess. Super sleek, fast and simple rules. Bingo, you win. If you like the older, more traditional, deeper games, sorry, you lose. Winners and losers, hence the mass debating (oo-er missus) on other forums.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 30, 2015, 01:12:38 PM
Quote from: Nord on June 30, 2015, 08:52:52 AM
Latest from BOLS (sorry gents, but sometimes these things have to be done, be brave):-

Hold my hand?

Quote
– Nine Mortal Realms, all based on the eight colours of magic, and Chaos makes nine.

Not sure I like that. Now, instead of being classed by race or allegiance, all the different factions are defined by colour. Suddenly I can see segments of these sigmarites - whatchamacallits, stormcast eternals? That's a mouthful - let's call them, 'chapters', based in each realm. So you can have blue sigmarines and red sigmarines and grey sigmarines and...

New names for old races are a bit goofy, but expected. The rules don't seem too bad overall, but that charge and 'battleshock' are going to cause problems, IMO

Quote
Battleshock Phase – 2d6 + Casualties. For each point the total beats the unit’s bravery, one model flees and is removed from play. Bravery is +1 for every 10 models in the unit when the test is taken.

So does that imply that that there are going to be many multiples of 10 minis in a unit? Or d'you think it'll be up to two? Anyone else think the randomness is a bit much?

Quote
– WD 74 WILL include a free Stormcast Eternal.
– WD 74 will include all four pages of AoS rules in it

Want a look even more now.

Quote
– There are no point values in Age of Sigmar.

That'll be interesting.

Quote
Age of Sigmar is shaping up to be an entirely different animal than the 8th Edition that came before it – connected only loosely by it’s background and the use of common miniatures.  I am genuinely curious about how the community will react.  I don’t think the industry has EVER seen such a large product range/license go through such a massive reboot.

GW and all of us are in completely uncharted waters here.

I think that's the closest a BoLS blogger is contractually obliged to come to 'GW's doing something that people will hate'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on June 30, 2015, 01:28:59 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on June 30, 2015, 09:02:31 AM
Now YOU try fitting it to the tune ;D

nnnnnnggggg

Failed  lol

I bet AKB237 could do it though...

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 30, 2015, 01:35:17 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on June 30, 2015, 01:28:59 PM
I bet AKB237 could do it though...

Only if they take a word each  ;D

AKB48... my daughter's favourite band when she was about five  >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 30, 2015, 02:02:25 PM
That battleshock is awfully similar to 'Test of Courage' in God of Battles, only the casualties and minis are not counted.

Works nicely in GoB.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 01, 2015, 12:20:08 PM
Blimey, do you british need more GW stores? Seems there's another opening. Surely you've hit critical mass now!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duke Donald on July 01, 2015, 09:14:47 PM
There have been significant leaks on the new Warhammer "Age of Sigmar" edition. I spent a while reading the reactions on Warseer and Dakka Dakka sites. Worth a look for anyone interested in outbreaks of serious nerd rage!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on July 01, 2015, 09:28:10 PM
Quote from: Duke Donald on July 01, 2015, 09:14:47 PM
I spent a while reading the reactions on Warseer and Dakka Dakka sites. Worth a look for anyone interested in outbreaks of serious nerd rage!

Well, have you read the rules? (If that word is even applicable here.) They're worth a look for anyone interested in a complete train wreck.

And the concept as a whole is now basically 40k with barely half a fake moustache on for a disguise.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duke Donald on July 01, 2015, 09:36:33 PM
Quote
Well, have you read the rules? (If that word is even applicable here.) They're worth a look for anyone interested in a complete train wreck.

And the concept as a whole is now basically 40k with barely half a fake moustache on for a disguise.

I read the rules (doesn't take long). They're weird but what is even weirder is that there's not clear hint out there yet what's the balancing mechanism for the whole game. I agree it's some minimalistic version of 40K; the codpiece's definitely gone!

I also had a look at the fluff, which I found awful and don't get me started on the writing ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 02, 2015, 10:56:02 AM
Yup, read em.  Not impressed.   It seems they really are looking for a younger less attentive audience, and to try and scoop up some of the Warmachine crowd.  

To my mind, sure GW can often make some nice models, but just as often they are plain awful.  The ONLY thing that they consistently had in their favor was the rich IP.  They just jettisoned that.  So what's left?  Halfbaked rules and overpriced, some-of-the-time-nice models.  

One foot is now firmly planted in the grave.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 02, 2015, 10:56:42 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on July 02, 2015, 10:56:02 AM
Yup, read em.  Not impressed.   It seems they really are looking for a younger less attentive audience, and to try and scoop up some of the Warmachine crowd.  

To my mind, sure GW can often make some nice models, but just as often they are plain awful.  The ONLY thing that they consistently had in their favor was the rich IP.  They just jettisoned that.  So what's left?  Halfbaked rules and overpriced, some-of-the-time-nice models.  

One foot is now firmly planted in the grave.

Oh crap, hit the wrong button.  Admin, can you delete this one?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: -DE- on July 02, 2015, 12:11:03 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on July 02, 2015, 10:56:02 AM
Yup, read em.  Not impressed.   It seems they really are looking for a younger less attentive audience, and to try and scoop up some of the Warmachine crowd.

What sane Warmachine player would abandon his game for Age of Sigmar?

It's got nothing to do with Warmachine, or any other currently popular skirmish game for that matter, other than round bases. Which are considered to not exist by the rules!  :o

At its core, AoS is a very simplified version of 8th, with glaring holes you could run a land raider through, and with no army building rules or points system in place. Simply take what you will and fill out your half of the table with any miniatures in your collection.

I don't see how it is aimed at anybody other than GW bean counters.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 02, 2015, 01:14:18 PM
You just inspired me to look at GW's website for the first time in ages. It upset me.

When I was a kid I liked the Citadel mins because they looked like they were made by grown-ups. Now they look like a kid's scribbles on a piece of doodle paper. Like when you used to make up crazy monsters with guns for arms and tentacles everywhere. It's puerile.

Ah well, all things come to an end I guess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: affun on July 02, 2015, 01:14:52 PM
Quote from: -DE- on July 02, 2015, 12:11:03 PM
I don't see how it is aimed at anybody other than GW bean counters.

Well, their former CEO did at one point say that the "games workshop hobby" consists of buying their models.   ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 02, 2015, 01:54:07 PM
Quote from: affun on July 02, 2015, 01:14:52 PM
Well, their former CEO did at one point say that the "games workshop hobby" consists of buying their models.   ::)

And i expect this game system has been deliberately made super simple so that people who only buy the mini's they like can, if they feel like it, still play something with them, and those who buy to play will still play either way.
It feels sort of like the "games" you get in blind bag kids toys, where really the kid only wants the figure ,but the people making it feel the need to justify the toy with a piece of tissue with some rules on it, some sort of card, and a marble or something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 02, 2015, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: -DE- on July 02, 2015, 12:11:03 PM
What sane Warmachine player would abandon his game for Age of Sigmar?

It's got nothing to do with Warmachine, or any other currently popular skirmish game for that matter, other than round bases. Which are considered to not exist by the rules!  :o

At its core, AoS is a very simplified version of 8th, with glaring holes you could run a land raider through, and with no army building rules or points system in place. Simply take what you will and fill out your half of the table with any miniatures in your collection.

I don't see how it is aimed at anybody other than GW bean counters.

I believe Warmachine uses the same sort of basic rules and unit card system. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on July 02, 2015, 03:54:41 PM
The buy a new unit released this week with its special warscroll, which will beat the new release last week with its warscroll, sound to me like a miniatures version of the excallation in purchasing new (and rare) cards for Magic the Gathering, with little kiddies repeatedly buying new stuff in order to beat their 'friends' in a game. And no doubt with some units on 'limited' release to put even greater pressure on the easily led.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on July 02, 2015, 04:14:50 PM
Ok one thing that strikes me most is that if they released a new boxed unit with a Warscroll then you have to buy the GW minis to get the Scroll rather then saying going a cheaper 3rd party (Mantic for example) for the models to use as the unit.

Those who play the GW rulesets but tend to use 3rd Parties for whatever reason (Budget, dislike of the figures) providing they don't sell the Warpscrolls separate and you stay legal and not use a scanned PDF then it could put a few people off expanding there collections for AoS or any other WhFB further down the line.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Peabody on July 02, 2015, 04:24:53 PM
Quote from: Chico on July 02, 2015, 04:14:50 PM
Those who play the GW rulesets but tend to use 3rd Parties for whatever reason (Budget, dislike of the figures) providing they don't sell the Warpscrolls separate and you stay legal and not use a scanned PDF then it could put a few people off expanding there collections for AoS or any other WhFB further down the line.

Bingo.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 02, 2015, 04:25:52 PM
Quote from: Mr. Peabody on July 02, 2015, 04:24:53 PM
Bingo.

Pretty much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 02, 2015, 06:47:08 PM
Quote from: AfricanAl on July 02, 2015, 03:54:41 PM
The buy a new unit released this week with its special warscroll, which will beat the new release last week with its warscroll, sound to me like a miniatures version of the excallation in purchasing new (and rare) cards for Magic the Gathering

Heck, sounds like business as usual for GW itself, only speeded up a bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Astor on July 02, 2015, 08:40:57 PM
I never got around to actually playing Warhammer (despite many attempts), of any edition, but I suspect like many here, it was Warhammer that introduced me to our hobby (although GW nowadays seem to think they have copyright on the 'Hobby'). The Old World was one of my first encounters with a fantasy world, and I've always kept up with the lore. I know it's not really gone whilst we've all still got our books and so on, but I'll miss it all the same.

Quote from: Dr. The Viking on June 29, 2015, 10:02:11 AM
NEVER GO FULL RETARD!

Having just caught up on the 'Age of Sigmar' latest (haven't read the rules, yet. I probably won't), especially seeing the various Space Marine Chapters/Stormhosts that we 'will, of course, enjoy creating', I'm inclined to agree. I'm going to laugh at anyone who tries convince me that this new faction aren't simply Space Marines sans bolters.


Quote from: AfricanAl on July 02, 2015, 03:54:41 PM
The buy a new unit released this week with its special warscroll, which will beat the new release last week with its warscroll, sound to me like a miniatures version of the excallation in purchasing new (and rare) cards for Magic the Gathering, with little kiddies repeatedly buying new stuff in order to beat their 'friends' in a game. And no doubt with some units on 'limited' release to put even greater pressure on the easily led.

They've practically been doing that with 40k for some time now, and it put me off playing for good in the last year. It's sad to see Warhammer/Age of Sigmar go the same way, but they obviously feel they're onto a winner with it.

I wish them luck, with it though. I stopped hating GW a long time ago. Now, I just despair.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 02, 2015, 10:03:08 PM
The terrain looks cool (in a GW kind of way) and there seem to be 2 new RoB tiles comng out, no skulls, just ruined buildings and cracked ground. I have to say , seeing as i'm gonna be knocking up a round based fantasy warband for frostgrave, I might give age of sigmar a proper try.My main issue with fantasy gaming was always that it was rank and file,so maybe i'm not alone and gw is targeting people like me.

Christ, am i the core demographic?!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 03, 2015, 01:25:44 AM
Sorry for the double post, but JESUS CHRIST!
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/christ_zps4rjfkgpt.jpg)

Forget fantasy, welcome to every single true scale marine conversion for the next 5 years!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 01:28:10 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 03, 2015, 01:25:44 AM
Sorry for the double post, but JESUS CHRIST!
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/christ_zps4rjfkgpt.jpg)

Forget fantasy, welcome to every single true scale marine conversion for the next 5 years!

Woah, just...woah. If they weren't offering the warscrolls for existing models for free, I'd just drop a nope bomb and be done with it! That's just...there's a word for it, it just isn't coming to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on July 03, 2015, 02:52:22 AM
Wow cool golem figure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 03, 2015, 05:41:50 AM
Part of me likes that. Not all of me but in a different way I kind of like it. Shoot me now!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 03, 2015, 05:47:17 AM
I like it as a troll or golem, perhaps with a head swap. There may be uses for these things.

The question is, is it worth paying GW prices for them  ::) lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 06:28:54 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 02, 2015, 10:03:08 PM
Christ, am i the core demographic?!

Welcome to the GW hobby sect, please leave your valuables/money/soul in the deposit box, and take your Sigmarines, you are "it"  o_o

Quote from: Knightofspades on July 03, 2015, 02:52:22 AM
Wow cool golem figure.


Or any flavour Spacemarine you like... just ad a backpack.

But I like your idea more

Quote from: FramFramson on July 03, 2015, 05:47:17 AM
I like it as a troll or golem, perhaps with a head swap. There may be uses for these things.

The question is, is it worth paying GW prices for them  ::) lol

Patience, wait a while for the abandonment of the hobby by some of the latest Demographic generation, and pick them up off e-bay... if any of us are still interested in them by then.

One day to go and then get to see the re-veal and reaction :) will be an interesting Sunday morning cup a tea and read the reactions.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 03, 2015, 09:03:43 AM
Blood Angels anyone?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 09:13:38 AM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/blog/blog.jsp

Okay...what is that thing that Sigmarl Franz is riding on? I'll probably be salty about this new version for a while, but I'll poke it with a stick before hating it forever.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on July 03, 2015, 09:25:56 AM
oh goodness..

(http://i.imgur.com/anYMlik.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 03, 2015, 09:31:53 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 09:13:38 AM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/blog/blog.jsp

Okay...what is that thing that Sigmarl Franz is riding on? I'll probably be salty about this new version for a while, but I'll poke it with a stick before hating it forever.
Griffon wasn't it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 03, 2015, 09:34:20 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 03, 2015, 01:25:44 AM
Sorry for the double post, but JESUS CHRIST!
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/christ_zps4rjfkgpt.jpg)

Forget fantasy, welcome to every single true scale marine conversion for the next 5 years!
I think those would look better with spikes snipped off,and a crest instead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 09:35:50 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on July 03, 2015, 09:31:53 AM
Griffon wasn't it?

That ain't no griffin...not a space station either. The general look of the sigmarines kind of reminds me of the persian immortals, but I'm not sold yet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 03, 2015, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 09:35:50 AM
That ain't no griffin...not a space station either. The general look of the sigmarines kind of reminds me of the persian immortals, but I'm not sold yet.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/atia-001-e1435703837161.jpg
My mistake it's the creature off ghostbusters.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 03, 2015, 10:41:41 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 09:35:50 AM
That ain't no griffin...not a space station either. The general look of the sigmarines kind of reminds me of the persian immortals, but I'm not sold yet.

The Frank Miller movie versions, I assume. :D Aye, the scowly metal masks look a bit familiar.

A lot of people thought the mount was a big cat in the blurry leaked photos, 'cos it does look a bit like this guy (http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/He-Man-Battle-Cat.jpeg), but it's some kind of earthbound dragon, or similiar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 03, 2015, 10:51:59 AM
I'm off into town today,gonna pick up white dwarf for the free model then get some "i hate myself but i can't quit" ice cream to sooth the pain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 03, 2015, 11:04:25 AM
Wait, I thought it was released on Saturdays, with the free mini out tomorrow? Mind you, I see reviews of shop-bought copies online already.

(Try to view it as obtaining a sample for scientific research.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 03, 2015, 11:32:11 AM
As a casual observer, one of the things I've noticed for some time were the complaints of "Give us something new, why re-hash the same old stuff?"... obviously they eventually listened and now people don't seem to like it much.

 :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Earle on July 03, 2015, 11:39:54 AM
I could do with a couple of those, erm, 'Sigmar things' to use as statues in Frostgrave.

Anyone?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 11:45:33 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 09:13:38 AM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/blog/blog.jsp

Okay...what is that thing that Sigmarl Franz is riding on? I'll probably be salty about this new version for a while, but I'll poke it with a stick before hating it forever.

hmmmm, not sold on it - needs, I don't know, maybe both should have wings, and a Sigmarine-jetpack maybe and surely some skulls somewhere?


Still he has a BIG hammer.

Any details regarding how many multiparts, and versions/types you can make ?- or is it just one - guess will see on website when it goes up for pre-order/sold out status.,,

oh but the blurb "an age of eternal warfare where epic armies clash across unimaginably vast realms" sounds like there is only war then.. read that somwhere before...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on July 03, 2015, 11:58:58 AM
The White Dwarf with free miniature and the 4 page rules will be out tomorrow. That's what the store owner told me, I have reserved one as they could be popular for the free miniature and at only around three euros it's quite nice for the seemingly huge miniature alone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 11:59:55 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 11:45:33 AM
hmmmm, not sold on it - needs, I don't know, maybe both should have wings, and a Sigmarine-jetpack maybe and surely some skulls somewhere?


Still he has a BIG hammer.

Any details regarding how many multiparts, and versions/types you can make ?- or is it just one - guess will see on website when it goes up for pre-order/sold out status.,,

oh but the blurb "an age of eternal warfare where epic armies clash across unimaginably vast realms" sounds like there is only war then.. read that somwhere before...

Well he always had a big hammer, I'm not to worried about that. The whole 'everything is terrible forever' has me irked though. For me, warhammer was more a case of 'everything is terrible sometimes, but there are brief occasions of good things happening,' whilst leaving the whole 'everything is terrible forever' situation for 40k and the like.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on July 03, 2015, 12:11:01 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on July 03, 2015, 11:32:11 AM
As a casual observer, one of the things I've noticed for some time were the complaints of "Give us something new, why re-hash the same old stuff?"... obviously they eventually listened and now people don't seem to like it much.

 :?

Its mainly because they went far too far in the opposite direction.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 03, 2015, 12:19:29 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 09:13:38 AM
Okay...what is that thing that Sigmarl Franz is riding on?

A big pile of hard earned cash...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 12:21:51 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 11:59:55 AM
Well he always had a big hammer, I'm not to worried about that. The whole 'everything is terrible forever' has me irked though. For me, warhammer was more a case of 'everything is terrible sometimes, but there are brief occasions of good things happening,' whilst leaving the whole 'everything is terrible forever' situation for 40k and the like.

Yup - unlike 40k it was nice to take a break from War! Constant unending etc etc.

Will make it easier to merge the rules together later I guess...

Quote from: Arlequín on July 03, 2015, 11:32:11 AM
As a casual observer, one of the things I've noticed for some time were the complaints of "Give us something new, why re-hash the same old stuff?"... obviously they eventually listened and now people don't seem to like it much.

 :?

Don't mind us we like a good moan  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 03, 2015, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 12:21:51 PM
Don't mind us we like a good moan  :D

Yep, it's like a neverending salt mine here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: harleyface on July 03, 2015, 01:18:17 PM
Very Interesting discussion  :D
Personally i quit GW when they divided undead..
Loved my undead army...has still a special place  :-*
Think i had the same feeling when this happened.
Right now i can see AoS with a who cares feeling...
Maybe it will generate new audience for our hobby..so many people including me started wargaming with GW.So im not angry anymore.
Maybe some people deceid now to play some more hobby dedicated games...
Maybe a new generation of wargamers will start with AoS
For me its a bit like Star Wars.
There are only 3 Movies and the remastered are crap..but if i ask the kids of my friends they love the new movies and remastered...at least we all love Star Wars...
Maybe we are getting old..
No one here can see AoS with the eyes of a beginner.
Maybe GW is doing the right think to generate interest in the hobby (but they definitly loose long time fans and hurt many gamers like me some years ago...)
Sorry for bad english...its hard to write what i mean  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 03, 2015, 01:37:48 PM
Quote from: harleyface on July 03, 2015, 01:18:17 PM
Very Interesting discussion  :D
Personally i quit GW when they divided undead..
Loved my undead army...has still a special place  :-*
Think i had the same feeling when this happened.
Right now i can see AoS with a who cares feeling...
Maybe it will generate new audience for our hobby..so many people including me started wargaming with GW.So im not angry anymore.
Maybe some people deceid now to play some more hobby dedicated games...
Maybe a new generation of wargamers will start with AoS
For me its a bit like Star Wars.
There are only 3 Movies and the remastered are crap..but if i ask the kids of my friends they love the new movies and remastered...at least we all love Star Wars...
Maybe we are getting old..
No one here can see AoS with the eyes of a beginner.
Maybe GW is doing the right think to generate interest in the hobby (but they definitly loose long time fans and hurt many gamers like me some years ago...)
Sorry for bad english...its hard to write what i mean  8)
Makes perfect sense to me, :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 03, 2015, 02:23:09 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 12:21:51 PM
Don't mind us we like a good moan  :D

Who doesn't? I'm certainly at the age where if you've nothing to moan about you're probably dead.  :D

I've never really been captured by fantasy 'battle' gaming, but was almost snared by 40K... it was a close-run thing... however I do sort of see what's going on, I think.

I imagine that GW's legal bill is pretty high, what with all the cease and desists and whatever. They lose money when Joe Public uses proxy figures and get nothing back from tournaments, as (correct me if I'm wrong) they don't run them any more. Over successive editions they have just overcomplicated the rules, made it virtually impossible for Mr (or Master, given their perceived target audience) Average to get in at the bottom without spending a ton of money.

I think someone mentioned the increase in model size earlier, but this doesn't increase production costs overly (it's plastic), but it does sort of stop people using proxies from a visual angle. As nobody else produces in that size of figure, there is no muddying the waters about where the figure you're pirating/converting/making bits for, originated... unless other fantasy companies up-scale their ranges too.

I envision a future where the 'old armies' get up-scaled eventually too, which sort of stops people from using those figures in any other game but Warhammer©. Likewise with scenery, buildings and whatever else.

No tournaments = no need for points. It also covers-up any glaring inequalities, nerfing, buffing or whatever, as you have no points system to compare anything against.  

As for the 'new universe', let's face it, everyone does the human-elves-dwarves-goblins-orks-beastmen Dark Agey-Medieval thing. It is the 'classic' Tolkien-esque 'fantasy trope'. In a way they have stepped more towards their own universe in 40k, with a sort of "This is what came before the flared power armour".

It's kind of a brave step to take, potentially a foolish one, given that so many long term gamers seem to be put out by the possibility of their armies being ditched. From GW's point of view, what have they got to lose? Some of those guys are using models they bought back in the '90s, so where is the profit in that for GW?

On the other hand they are producing a brand new 'fantasy' game trope, which (at this moment in time at least) is still compatible with their existing catalogue, such as it is. Whether that will be enough to draw old gamers back to the fold, or produce a new crop of gamers remains to be seen. Certainly the abrupt pulling of 'End of Times' stuff must have been costly too. It seems one hell of a risk from where I'm sitting though.

Apologies for any inaccuracies in the above... my knowledge of the 'GW Hobby' scene is full of gaping holes. I have to admit though the whole subject of AoS has grabbed my attention, despite my having no interest in the game itself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 03, 2015, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on July 03, 2015, 11:32:11 AM
As a casual observer, one of the things I've noticed for some time were the complaints of "Give us something new, why re-hash the same old stuff?"... obviously they eventually listened and now people don't seem to like it much.

 :?

There are two things I'd say about that:

1, I don't think it's a case of listening to the complaints. (Market research is otiose in a niche, and fans'll buy anything GW puts out, y'know ;) )

2, not all 'something news' are created equal.

GW's revenues overall have been dwindling in the last couple of years, and signs were that the last two editions of WFB (imbalance, randomness, having to buy huge units of ever-more expensive plastic minis) managed to chase and keep away enough gamers to send it to Specialist Games levels of profitability. (It's not just people who're getting old, Harleyface!) It looks like this new game wasn't a result of going to those disappearing fans and asking 'why you no buy warhams?', but simply looking at how much more 40K and space marines in particular were selling than FB, and reshaping FB to be more like that. Not so much of the 'why', especially since this game appears to pile on the imbalance and randomness too.

And in their reshaping they decided to blow up the world. I don't think anyone asked for that. As far as I could see the moans for something new were a reaction to GW's constant rehashing of rules, almost by clockwork, seemingly to sell the same thing all over again rather than to fix things. Along with the static nature of the setting's storyline. A particular sore point in that was the worldwide Storm of Chaos campaign, where GW promised players that their games would change the Warhammer World. GW either didn't get the results they expected, or planned not to change anything at all - either way the status quo was kept, and the storyline was not only kept static, but rewound to just before the beginning of the Storm of Chaos. And there it sat until GW decided to torch the Warhammer World and retconned the SoC invasion into that.
The actual destruction of the world, again, seems to be less about listening to the fans as listening to their wallets. They were going to remake the game from the ground up anyway, so given how the Chapterhouse and Spots the Space Marine cases showed them how copyright and trademarks work in the real world, and just how unique their special snowflakes are, why not turn their generic fantasy setting into something a wee bit more defensible? (Never mind that plenty of folks already call out the similarity of these chunky-armoured giants to various others in other mini games and computer games.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 03, 2015, 02:45:52 PM
Yes, I can take all that on board and certainly I've tried to work out what 'their plan' was at various stages; I convinced myself there wasn't one.

The only justification I can come up with for the 'mo bigger, 'mo better attitude, is that the guys who have bought into their 'old game' over the years are unlikely to add much to profits. Folks playing with what they already have is not going to increase shareholder dividends, which I don't think anyone could successfully argue that isn't what GW is all about.

I do see that WFB was certainly headed for 'Specialist Games' status though...   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on July 03, 2015, 05:40:11 PM
Well I have lost my taste for games workshop stuff after they made "Kills children for pleasure" Malekith a mary sue big damm hero. For not other reason than dark elves looks cooler than high elves I presume.
So its not like I am ever going to buy any of their products again. Sort of how I stopped buying spider man comics after "one more day". I just lost interest.


But I am curious if this will be a success.

The thing that had the warhammer games going imo has always been the cheese. I dont mean the overpower armies or illconcived and stupid rules. But the community always hunting for and discussing new tactics and rules which came out on a regular basis creating an competitive environment where gamers could meet and thrive. Sort of like world of warcraft in the computer game world.

If the new fantasy game provide that with their warscrolls then they probably will succeed. I wonder if you can have different warscrolls in your army with your figures? Sort of a collectible card game of sorts?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 03, 2015, 05:44:03 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on July 03, 2015, 02:23:09 PM
I think someone mentioned the increase in model size earlier, but this doesn't increase production costs overly (it's plastic), but it does sort of stop people using proxies from a visual angle. As nobody else produces in that size of figure, there is no muddying the waters about where the figure you're pirating/converting/making bits for, originated... unless other fantasy companies up-scale their ranges too.

They might've, ten years ago. These days, many still would, probably. But the big fish in the pond isn't looking so healthy anymore; and thanks to getting to grips with the internet and especially crowdfunding, and the success of games like Warmachine and Infinity, the small fry (producers and players) are more confident in doing what they like, without worrying about reference to GW.

But still, since these Sigmarites are fantasy space marines, and some of the khorne guys seem shorter, I'm not so sure that the entire new range will be upscaled. We'll have to see.

Quote
I envision a future where the 'old armies' get up-scaled eventually too, which sort of stops people from using those figures in any other game but Warhammer©.

From the sound of things the old armies are being mothballed. Still on sale, for the time being, but kept static, with no new models or rules added. (Which, in the GW attitude of buy-to-stay-current, or buying-is-the-hobby, is almost as good as killing them stone dead) I don't know if that's how it'll stay, but I wouldn't be surprised. They blew up the world all those old armies lived on, after all!

Quote
No tournaments = no need for points. It also covers-up any glaring inequalities, nerfing, buffing or whatever,

Or with the new way of field-what-you-like, makes them even glaring. :D 'Unbound' army organisation (amounting to the same thing) is often seen as one if the biggest curses of 40K 7th ed.

Quote
As for the 'new universe', let's face it, everyone does the human-elves-dwarves-goblins-orks-beastmen Dark Agey-Medieval thing. It is the 'classic' Tolkien-esque 'fantasy trope'. In a way they have stepped more towards their own universe in 40k, with a sort of "This is what came before the flared power armour".

I've thought about this before. I'm not so convinced that generic fantasy is such a bust, just because it's generic and everyone can do it, so long as you can do it better than everyone else, in some way, or offer some kind of spin or USP. Not to say it'd do as well as more unique themes and settings, but still, GW did alright with it for years, didn't they?
Personally, I think one of GW's biggest stumbles was that they had and still have the production capabilities, infrastructure, and certain of the design studio to do that, to outsculpt and/or utterly undercut anyone else out there, especially for army building. In that situation, if you have your own proprietary setting and game for gamers to use your minis in, groovy. If not, you're still a good bet for anyone who wants to do their own generic fantasy thing, like Mars Miniatures' excellent mashup of LotR, Warhammer, GoT, DnD etc. in the fantasy board.
But then they did what they're doing with AoS, trying to enforce the use of their minis with their game, in some way. Eventually fostering not only a player base of 100% official, 100% dedicated fans, but also the idea that GW is 'The Hobby', cutting fans off from exposure to anything else. They started to believe their own hype, and their hobby bubble backfired on them. Believing they had a captive audience that would buy and play anything they released, it looks like they stopped caring about affordable minis and half-decent games, and made them unaffordable (or at least rotten value) and unplayable. Now it seems that GW can't understand or don't want to to admit why more and more gamers are getting fed up with it, or are bypassing GW as an introduction to gaming, altogether.

As for other generic fantasy minis, well...

Quote
Some of those guys are using models they bought back in the '90s, so where is the profit in that for GW?

The thing is, GW's 'buy for the sake of buying' thing worked pretty well, much as it's painful to admit. People kept expanding their armies, bought the new models GW brought out for them, bought new models and even new armies as rules re-releases made different things more effective or less viable. New kids bought Warhammer minis because that's what their friends, brothers, even their dads had, and old folk returning to their childhoods made a beeline straight for GW, not bothering to look at anything else that sprang up in the meantime. They still do. Just not so much anymore.

To go off on a tangent, as I was saying, as for other generic fantasy: too many sculptors of that seem stuck back in the 90's as it is. Heck, most existing ranges don't seem too much younger than the 90's. Ham hands, mitten fingers, dinner-plate pecs, drainpipe limbs, faces like goldfish, heroic stance (http://v004o.popscreen.com/eHZseXN4MTI=_o_blackadder-season-03-episode-04---sense-and-senility.jpg). And it all seems to get snapped up and validated by the people who grew up with it, anyway. Bob Naismith still gets requests for his old style, particularly old boy Ronnie Renton calling him in for the kick-off of Mantic's own generic fantasy.  Some oldhammerers are going crazy for Foundry's Warmonger Miniatures, releasing Kev Adam's sculpts that show their 'vintage', even if sculpted yesterday, and leave me completely cold. Fresh, new hobby sculptors are buoyed up by internet interest in their work, and that's great, but it's sometimes quickly followed by minis appearing in webshops, copying those older styles and minis, without enough time and practise to really refine their sculpts and own style. (I'll hold my own hands up here, I think I still have some way to go myself, before I try to make a splash)

You'll get some 'modern' sculpting (diplomatically speaking) from Reaper, Otherworld, Hasslefree, and TBH quite a few others; but selling individual characters for display or for tiny RPG parties and skirmish gangs. And then you've got the likes of Gamezone selling premium proxies for Warhammer, whose UK stockist doesn't stock 'em any more, and whose cheaper resin plans seem to have stalled, and likely won't go anywhere now.
It's almost telling that one of the greatest boosts to fantasy army building in recent years has been the boom in historical plastic sets, particularly Perry Bros. Even Mantic/KoW fans seem to rave about those more than Mantic's own range. As wrong-headed as it is, I see internet passers-by sneering at the (free, streamlined, GW-compatible) KoW rules just because the company's own minis look off. And I've thought myself that for plastic army building, it's a shame two of the best choices are GW's decently sculpted but overpriced minis, and Mantic's decently priced but wonky, odd minis.

In the meantime the (sub)genres of steampunk fantasy, horror, and sleek near-future sci-fi get a shot in the arm from Warmachine, Malifaux and Infinity. IMO not just because they offer a GW-style all-in-one game package, and with generally well-regarded rules, but because the minis are usually very well sculpted and crafted. A bit of 'modern refinement' has gone into them. They can be a bit over-styled in many cases, maybe, and still fairly expensive; but with little of the old rushed-through look, and more easily seen as priced proportionately to the game scale.

So, that whole mad, rambling digression is to say, misfires and prices aside, GW's almost-defunct range is still one of the better fantasy choices for some. Annoying as that is. The basic, simplified choice of generic fantasy is between expensive (and often limited) and... 'old'. I have to think that's having some small effect on the uptake of fantasy by new gamers, at least.

Makes me wonder that with GW seemingly abandoning mass battles (though I have heard rumours about new mass battle rules coming) and with no-one currently offering a really good alternative, will someone step up to occupy the modern-sculpting, 28mm armies, generic fantasy gap? Or will the recent trend towards more 10-15mm (even 6mm) fantasy mass battles gain more traction? (Were 28mm mass battles a long blip propped up by GW and WAB...?)
I still think Mantic could do the former, if they inject some Deadzone/Dreadball quality back into new KoW plastics. Or Shieldwolf, much as their croc-jawed orcs turn me off. There'd have to be a lot of plastic in this day and age, I think, and HIPS at that. Otherwise, it's confirming my feeling that I need to practise more 15mm, and glad that I invested in Yann's 10mm barbars.

Quote
Whether that will be enough to draw old gamers back to the fold, or produce a new crop of gamers remains to be seen. Certainly the abrupt pulling of 'End of Times' stuff must have been costly too. It seems one hell of a risk from where I'm sitting though.

Agreed with you there, at least. ;) :D

Quote from: Arlequín on July 03, 2015, 02:23:09 PM
Apologies for any inaccuracies in the above... my knowledge of the 'GW Hobby' scene is full of gaping holes.

Just FYI, the 'market research is otiose in a niche', 'the GW hobby is buying GW products', and 'our customers will buy whatever we sell' bits are all actual sayings from GW's upper echelons. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 03, 2015, 07:56:13 PM
I was going to write a long reply to you Vermis, but I agree with everything you say.  Even the stuff about Mantic  :o

I think AoS is a response to a number of factors in the gaming world, both minis and boardgames/minis hybrid gaming.  There are now a lot of VERY smart starter games out there, many with free/quickstart rules, and Fantasy Flight seems to have got the wallet-bleeding expansion model down to a fine art

To your mention of Warmachine, Infinity and Malifaux, I'd add X-Wing, Star Wars Imperial Assault, Descent, Battlelore, Dropzone Commander.  Some of these games have months and months of gameplay in just the starter set.

Quote
Ham hands, mitten fingers, dinner-plate pecs, drainpipe limbs, faces like goldfish

My wife still loves me though  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 03, 2015, 09:53:43 PM
Great post, Vermis; a nice summary of how I feel really.

As for those occasional voices popping in to accuse people of just moaning, well, so what? It's a discussion of GW as it currently is, and nobody is being unfair. That a lot of what is being said is negative is caused by GW, not by us. I think if you read between the lines, it's obvious that pretty much everyone "moaning" is just disappointed and fatigued with what GW has become, given what they were and how much they (and their games/worlds) meant to many of us as we grew up. Heck, I have a box of Warhammer fantasy novels in the loft... that's how much I loved the setting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 09:56:11 PM
+1 well said Vermis, well said and thats from someone with far to many fantasy miniatures, from the 90s, to much mantic and more.

We shall see what we see, and maybe it will be good. Stranger things happen...

As for GW's

Quote from: Vermis on July 03, 2015, 05:44:03 PM
Just FYI, the 'market research is otiose in a niche', 'the GW hobby is buying GW products', and 'our customers will buy whatever we sell' bits are all actual sayings from GW's upper echelons. :D

Yes, absolutely true and if anyone has not had the pleasure

http://investor.games-workshop.com/

Makes for great entertainment over a cup of tea, and helps shine a light on things.

Quote from: Momotaro on July 03, 2015, 07:56:13 PM
My wife still loves me though  :'(

Yes I think the same of my wife too. She is just great, and even lets me play with toy soldiers sometimes when I am not working.  :-*

I best get some sleep as I might have to go in the local WarHammer GW shop or whatever its called to get a big golem figure with a free magazine stuck on it. Maybe. as suggested might make a good large construct for Frostgrave.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 03, 2015, 10:08:17 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 09:56:11 PM
Yes I think the same of my wife too. She is just great, and even lets me play with toy soldiers sometimes when I am not working.  :-*

I get accused of playing with my Sylvanian Families... she's closer to the truth than she knows  :)

Quote
I best get some sleep as I might have to go in the local WarHammer GW shop or whatever its called to get a big golem figure with a free magazine stuck on it. Maybe. as suggested might make a good large construct for Frostgrave.

Oh I think a lot of us will be...  could be a statue, could be a golem but I will be tinkering with my bitz ( :o) to see if I can make a cheap Terminator Lord.

As I was typing, I've just had an email from Mantic telling me about KoW, "The Game of Fantasy Battles" and a 15% discount to celebrate "Independence from the Empire".  I assume that means the 4th of July...  Cheeky sods  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 03, 2015, 10:45:15 PM
New Age of Sigmar category is up on GW webpage!

Look in the old factions and select any item to see the PDF link for the entire army...  

Looking over these - yup, no points values.  The are minimum sizes for units, but no maximum.  Additional equipment options are there.

LOTS of special abilities and some of this stuff is really oddly specific - the Pawleader of a skavenslave (minimum size 20) unit get +1 to hit on its attack rolls.

There are Formations and associated bonuses.

There's a LOT of stuff to digest here.  Worth a game or two at least, since we now have the rules AND army stats.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 03, 2015, 10:55:01 PM
Did somebody say HEX BASES?!?
LAF rumor mill sk15 confirmed!
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/hex%20base_zpstwkba5io.jpg)
Honestly at this point, this looks like GW want you to take your mini's, slap them on the table and just bash the ever living fuck out of each other in a glorious orgy of violence, with any warband you want.

Yeah, seems with this one, despite the fact that the rules are VERY light and i'll probably prefer frostgrave, GW have tempted me to find a use for my dark vengeance fantasy conversions:

EDIT:
Age of Sigmar webpage is now up on GW uk.

Mod Edit: Removed links to copyrighted material.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 03, 2015, 11:19:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFyPbghStRo

Youtube clip of the starter set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 11:37:09 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 03, 2015, 10:55:01 PM
Did somebody say HEX BASES?!?
LAF rumor mill sk15 confirmed!

Honestly at this point, this looks like GW want you to take your mini's, slap them on the table and just bash the ever living fuck out of each other in a glorious orgy of violence, with any warband you want.

Yeah, seems with this one, despite the fact that the rules are VERY light and i'll probably prefer frostgrave, GW have tempted me to find a use for my dark vengeance fantasy conversions:

EDIT:
Age of Sigmar webpage is now up on GW uk.

Mod Edit: Removed links to copyrighted material.

Muhahahahhahahhaaaaaaaaaaaahah, think I will just go buy shares in the dodecahedron base manufacturer, they look like they might be on the up....

Glorious orgy of violence?

It all sounds a bit energetic if you ask me  :`
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 03, 2015, 11:44:03 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 11:37:09 PM
Muhahahahhahahhaaaaaaaaaaaahah, think I will just go buy shares in the dodecahedron base manufacturer, they look like they might be on the up....

Glorious orgy of violence?

It all sounds a bit energetic if you ask me  :`

Dodechahedronal is such a clunky word, could they not have just said hex or do they want to copyright it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on July 03, 2015, 11:46:47 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 11:37:09 PM
Muhahahahhahahhaaaaaaaaaaaahah, think I will just go buy shares in the dodecahedron base manufacturer, they look like they might be on the up....

Dunno, using dodecahedrons for bases would add unduly to the figure height. I would be interested in seeing mass-produced dodecagonal plastic bases, although I wonder what their advantage would be compared to a circular base.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 03, 2015, 11:47:12 PM
I have to say I like that they have given all the old army lists free for this, and the rules. Still don't get the "build them as big as you want" idea with the army lists though. I reckon they couldn't be bothered balancing the old lists with the new rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 11:57:50 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 03, 2015, 11:19:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFyPbghStRo

Youtube clip of the starter set.

The names, oh god the names, "Bloodsecrator" or Lord something or other the Cryptborn, "Retributors" - em ok Sigmarine Terminators with Storm hammers..

 I am really tempted to get it to use the Hammer Marines as just that, alternative skulpt space marines. Really there are Termies, and jetpack squady ones with really net jetpacks. and all close combat to.

and the Cryptborn is begging to be a Chaplain.

There, I just 40k'ed the entire box set. Well they did say "Endless War" so they got to get to year 40k eventually.

I am sure the price will help deter me from taking on yet another project  ;D

Quote from: beefcake on July 03, 2015, 11:47:12 PM
I reckon they couldn't be bothered balancing the old lists with the new rules.

Could be argued they gave that up years ago..

Still you are right its like-able that they give the rules for free. Its probably one of their limited edition things ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 04, 2015, 12:00:40 AM
Yep names are rather pathetic and cringe-worthy.
Looked at my usual online hobby store. All WD 75 sold out! First WD I was going to buy in well over a decade.
I reckon it was one doof buying up all the stock.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 04, 2015, 12:02:50 AM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on July 03, 2015, 11:46:47 PM
Dunno, using dodecahedrons for bases would add unduly to the figure height. I would be interested in seeing mass-produced dodecagonal plastic bases, although I wonder what their advantage would be compared to a circular base.

Think of the line of site arguments you could cause....

Quote from: beefcake on July 04, 2015, 12:00:40 AM
Yep names are rather pathetic and cringe-worthy.
Looked at my usual online hobby store. All WD 75 sold out! First WD I was going to buy in well over a decade.
I reckon it was one doof buying up all the stock.

Oh so they will be on e-bay as OOP that fast?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 04, 2015, 12:06:01 AM
Apparently GW sent out review copies to bloggers/stores! I think there must have been an internal coup and kirby is currently locked in a cupboard with the squat codex and plastic sisters of battle.

Oh the names.I had to stop and pause the video just to say them all outloud to myself, just to asses whether they were even pronounceable.

Also, some of the special rules on the warscrolls seem a little bit TOO goofy,even by gw standards.Either they got added in as an april fools and someone forgot to remove them,or mantic is sending it's interns in to sabotage GW releases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 04, 2015, 12:28:18 AM
Some of the figures look rather nice - I like the flying Sigmarites and the Chaos basic troops (was going to say "rank and file - oops!).
The Sigmarite armoury is a bit Monty Python though:

"You can have a hammer or a hammer and a shield.  Or two hammers.  We have one-handed hammers, two-handed hammers and throwing hammers.  Or you can go for a giant hammer".

"Anything else? I was thinking a bit less... hammery".

"How about this flaming hammer?".

"That's still a hammer".

"Oh".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 04, 2015, 01:26:31 AM
 lol

Quote from: Momotaro on July 03, 2015, 07:56:13 PM
I was going to write a long reply to you Vermis, but I agree with everything you say.  Even the stuff about Mantic  :o

I didn't plan to go off like that! But I've already seen the theory that WFB almost died because of 'generic fantasy' (took, what? 30 years to die of it?) rather than mishandling by GW, and it turned into a bit of a rant based on my own frustration about the kind of generic fantasy models I want to see and own.

Quote
I think AoS is a response to a number of factors in the gaming world, both minis and boardgames/minis hybrid gaming.  There are now a lot of VERY smart starter games out there, many with free/quickstart rules, and Fantasy Flight seems to have got the wallet-bleeding expansion model down to a fine art

To your mention of Warmachine, Infinity and Malifaux, I'd add X-Wing, Star Wars Imperial Assault, Descent, Battlelore, Dropzone Commander.  Some of these games have months and months of gameplay in just the starter set.

Agreed! Now if someone could do something like that for fantasy battles, like a revamp of GW's old 10mm BoFA box set. (On a different scale?)

Quote
My wife still loves me though  :'(

Heh! I know that laundry list means I'm being unfair to some well regarded sculptors (and their fans), who did push the envelope back then, and who have to try to make a pittance out of this notoriously low-profit hobby without much luxury to be arty-farty about it. But there's this effect I see or imagine in some oldschool sculpting, to greater or lesser degrees, of rushing through a set of basic identikit features and techniques. (Especially in minis I own and use. Not too hypocritical...?) I don't think it's normally improved when those include fantasy features, or when they're pulled into any old shape because it's 'only fantasy'.
Despite having a lot of 'dolly' minis and plastic multipart kits with stock bits themselves, I think one thing that GW can be praised for is keeping a certain amount of individuality, character and care in some of them. (I recently got some metal high elf white lions off ebay, the last ones before they went finecast and then plastic. One-piece with just a couple of poses, but by crikey they're handsomely turned and detailed minis. Pity being second-hand doesn't make them a much better price for big units, but that's why I'm pinning a few hopes on Dragon Rampant, incidentally)

Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2015, 09:56:11 PM
I best get some sleep as I might have to go in the local WarHammer GW shop or whatever its called to get a big golem figure with a free magazine stuck on it. Maybe.

Ditto! Have to give GW props for stirring up publicity, anyway.

Quote from: Momotaro on July 03, 2015, 10:08:17 PM
As I was typing, I've just had an email from Mantic telling me about KoW, "The Game of Fantasy Battles" and a 15% discount to celebrate "Independence from the Empire".  I assume that means the 4th of July...  Cheeky sods  :D

 lol And I have to give Mantic props for their reaction to AoS. Setting up free, official KoW army lists that just happen to be compatible with all the armies that GW kinda-sorta set adrift? Beautiful.

Quote from: Momotaro on July 03, 2015, 10:45:15 PM
LOTS of special abilities and some of this stuff is really oddly specific - the Pawleader of a skavenslave (minimum size 20) unit get +1 to hit on its attack rolls.

The more things change. One of the oddly specific things that finally put me off WFB was that even low-down skavenslaves had to get some kind of unique special rule. Special rules for skavenslaves should be like serf upgrades in Lion Rampant...

Min unit sizes with no max doesn't sound entirely bad to me, though. Sounds like it could be self-limiting between players, somehow.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 04, 2015, 01:39:46 AM
A friend just sent me this:

Quote
Braying Warcry: Red-hot rage festers in
the savage minds of Wargors, their only
desire to rend and destroy. You can add 1
to all hit rolls made for a Wargor if, before
rolling the dice, you let loose a primal
warcry. Your warcry must use no actual
words, but angry grunts and raging snorts
are encouraged.

I copied and pasted this from an actual GW PDF. These are actual rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 04, 2015, 01:46:46 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 04, 2015, 01:39:46 AM
A friend just sent me this:

Quote
Braying Warcry: Red-hot rage festers in
the savage minds of Wargors, their only
desire to rend and destroy. You can add 1
to all hit rolls made for a Wargor if, before
rolling the dice, you let loose a primal
warcry. Your warcry must use no actual
words, but angry grunts and raging snorts
are encouraged.

I copied and pasted this from an actual GW PDF. These are actual rules.

That's a coincidence: I'm thinking of making crying noises right now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 04, 2015, 01:49:18 AM
I'm reading through the best ones people have posted on warseer. There are bad times ahead if these aren't an opening night joke.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 04, 2015, 02:07:17 AM
Quote from: Scurv on July 04, 2015, 01:51:53 AM
Cant wait to see the slaanesh stuff. "I attack with my Dildor backed up by my pervetigors Grunt honk snort."  

(http://i.imgur.com/o2xwAv4.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on July 04, 2015, 03:22:01 AM
Reading the warscrolls but cant find any point costs? Just armylists?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 04, 2015, 04:31:23 AM
Holy shit... how deep does this rabbit hole go?!

Quote
The Grail Vow: You can re-roll all failed hit rolls for this unit if, before rolling the dice, you hold aloft a grail or goblet and shout ‘For the Lady’ in a heroic voice.

Quote
Pride of the Reiksguard: Helborg’s skill is as legendary as his moustache is magnificent. You can re-roll any failed hit rolls when attacking with the Runefang so long as you have a bigger and more impressive moustache than your opponent.

Quote
The Mad Count: Marius Leitdorf is an exceptional swordsman, even if he is totally insane. If, during your hero phase, you pretend to ride an imaginary horse, you can re-roll failed hit rolls for the Averland Runefang until your next hero phase. If you actually talk to your imaginary horse you can re-roll failed wound rolls as well.

Quote
Lord of Forbidden Pleasure: It is wise not to gaze long upon the splendour of a Lord of Slaanesh, lest terrible notions begin to form. If an enemy unit finishes its pile in move within 3" of a Lord of Slaanesh, you can tell your opponent that they are in danger of being beguiled. From that point on, if your opponent looks you in the eye before the unit has made its hit rolls for that combat phase, subtract 1 from any of those rolls which target this model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on July 04, 2015, 04:47:07 AM
Reminds me of those photos of Nigerian scammers that have been pranked. Except in this scenario the Nigerians are us and the prankers are GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 04, 2015, 05:19:37 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 04, 2015, 04:31:23 AM
Holy shit... how deep does this rabbit hole go?!

I really thought you were taking the piss, so I checked it out. *facepalm*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on July 04, 2015, 05:28:25 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 03, 2015, 11:19:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFyPbghStRo

Youtube clip of the starter set.

The video does make the models look cool.  I have said it once before, if I was 12 years old right now, and just getting into GW, I would be all over them Sigmarines.

I hope it sells well for them... mostly because I want to see what else they have in store, and they likely won't produce it all if this thing tanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 04, 2015, 06:43:04 AM
Quote from: Vermis on July 04, 2015, 01:26:31 AM
I didn't plan to go off like that!

I didn't see it as 'going off', it was an excellent post and I took a lot from it.  :)

Just to be clear though, I don't think there is anything wrong with 'generic fantasy', it has to be still the most popular setting for games, purely because people like it. I don't even play it, but the whole milieu is as familiar and 'real' as if it was actual history.  

What I was trying to get across was that in GW-Think, the idea seemed to be to draw 'their gamers' away from that into something different and new, in the same way as mothers try to stop you playing with the neighbour kids.

'New' is not the best term perhaps, as my first impressions are of a biblical 'war in heaven' back story... so they have shifted from Tolkien to Talmud for their inspiration. Albeit the names are clearly all their own work and it shows.
 :)

Quote from: FramFramson on July 04, 2015, 04:31:23 AM
Holy shit... how deep does this rabbit hole go?!

Erm... I'm stunned. I know they were thinking 'beer and pretzel' type gaming (if their audience was actually old enough to drink that is), but this seems more of a 'shit-faced drunk' type game.

Likewise 90%+ of their gamers still have their first teeth, so how they going to compete in the moustache war?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 04, 2015, 07:09:54 AM
Quote from: Timbor on July 04, 2015, 05:28:25 AM
The video does make the models look cool.  I have said it once before, if I was 12 years old right now, and just getting into GW, I would be all over them Sigmarines.

I hope it sells well for them... mostly because I want to see what else they have in store, and they likely won't produce it all if this thing tanks.
100 percent agree,
but just watched that YouTube vid and Im like WTF ! o_o
Which I think is the general reaction of anyone who can remember GW in the nineties, lol
Anyone took shares in gold paint yet?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 04, 2015, 08:29:59 AM
A friend of mine just pointed out that they actually made a real game mechanic that says women get a disadvantage.

EDIT: So far this is my favourite comment:

Quote
At this rate, I'll be surprised if the new Slaaneshi ability doesn't require you to beat off on the table.

 lol ;D o_o ;D lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on July 04, 2015, 08:55:05 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 04, 2015, 08:29:59 AM
A friend of mine just pointed out that they actually made a real game mechanic that says women get a disadvantage.

I really hope this is in reference to that mustache silliness (nothing in that rule that says that the mustache must be "organically grown", mind) and nothing worse.

I wonder if they peeked in on one of Ignatieff's hobby extravaganzas and were enamoured with the copious amounts of headgear and other accoutrements.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on July 04, 2015, 08:57:33 AM
So, if you're still playing one of the old, probably soon-to-be-mothballed armies, you're actually required by the rules to publicly humiliate yourself to keep playing the game?!?
I..Wow... :o...Jeez...
I thought GW were bad for belittling their customers in the past, but I almost feel like GW should be reported for bullying now.
You just know some arseholes will rigorously enforce this...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 04, 2015, 09:12:26 AM
Here is a link to all the AoS army lists and rules:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/age-of-sigmar-compendiums

I can confirm those silly abilities are in there. Also this one:

"Masque of Slaanesh:
The endless Dance:
If you are dancing while rolling the dice for the Masque’s attacks in the combat phase, you can reroll any failed hit rolls. If, at any point, you
can coerce your opponent to join in, you can re-roll any failed wound rolls as well."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 04, 2015, 10:11:39 AM
Ta, Arlequin. :) Agreed.

On these new rules: anyone else think this is a way of making sure people drop their old armies like a hot potato, so that GW can bin the models sooner? 'Cos that makes more sense than what I'm reading, here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 04, 2015, 10:19:14 AM
Just been In town,whsmiths don't do white dwarf magazine anymore  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on July 04, 2015, 10:59:40 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on July 03, 2015, 10:08:17 PM
As I was typing, I've just had an email from Mantic telling me about KoW, "The Game of Fantasy Battles" and a 15% discount to celebrate "Independence from the Empire".

What's included and do I need a code?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 04, 2015, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: Gibby on July 04, 2015, 09:12:26 AM
If you are dancing while rolling the dice...

You mean there are people who don't?  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 04, 2015, 11:36:41 AM
Hmm, could have been worse, could have been better. Lots of change, that's kind of good and bad.

Lizardmen didn't get any silly rules, so that's nice.

Does the moustache have to be on the face during comparisons? If not, would a picture of a really sweet 'stache do the job? Seems like that would be the case.

All the white dwarves are sold out. That saves me a trip tomorrow. Not like the ol' grey mountain is getting any smaller. Also, those flappy-flappy hammer guys would have put me off as a kid. They look rather complex and tricky to paint. Might have a crack when the fuss has died down, but I'm not in much of a rush. Now I'm going to look at the pretty models on this here site.

Also, those names. I love puns and all, but eeesh!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 04, 2015, 12:48:58 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on July 04, 2015, 10:59:40 AM
What's included and do I need a code?

Everything on the Mantic website except Army Painter stuff.

Enter code AMERICA15 at the checkout.

Sale ends Midnight BST on Sun July 5th
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Astor on July 04, 2015, 12:52:31 PM
Okay, the no points thing is really starting to get to me.

If there are no points, and you're just after a pick up game in your local store, where's the guarantee that your opponent isn't going to be a complete d*** and vastly outnumber you? Where's the fun in being beaten to hell every time you play?

And without points, why would anyone waste time taking weaker units like Goblins when there's absolutely no barrier from them taking the same number of Black Orcs?

To my eyes the whole thing is far too open to abuse.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 04, 2015, 12:59:16 PM
So were points systems really. The divide between sporting players and gimps who want to build unbeatable forces has always been there, whether you do it by using a point system or not. I've already seen people on the Warhammer Forum who have found ways with these new rules to cheese-win in turn 1.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 04, 2015, 01:01:56 PM
Did they dance, sing, act heroically, and do unspeakable things all in turn one?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 04, 2015, 01:10:50 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 04, 2015, 10:11:39 AM
On these new rules: anyone else think this is a way of making sure people drop their old armies like a hot potato, so that GW can bin the models sooner? 'Cos that makes more sense than what I'm reading, here.

Thirty years of listening to customers whining about balance and nerfed units and cheesy codices and someone at GW has finally flipped:

"New game not good enough for you, you b***ards?  Want stats for your old models?  Well you can f**king dance for them with your d**ks in your hand you ungrateful s**ts, because that's the last stats you're ever getting for them".

Game could be a laugh over a few beers...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 04, 2015, 01:20:20 PM
Got last copy from local model store. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on July 04, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
A lot of rage over the silly rules they tossed in there... my first impression on reading those was that they weren't meant to be taken seriously.  I mean, unless your opponent is a jerk (and therefore not worth playing against) it is easy enough to just ignore all the silly rules that have obviously been put in there for a joke.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 04, 2015, 02:07:04 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on July 04, 2015, 01:10:50 PM
"New game not good enough for you, you b***ards?  Want stats for your old models?  Well you can f**king dance for them with your d**ks in your hand you ungrateful s**ts, because that's the last stats you're ever getting for them".

I suspect there is much truth in this.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 04, 2015, 02:09:16 PM
Quote from: Timbor on July 04, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
A lot of rage over the silly rules they tossed in there... my first impression on reading those was that they weren't meant to be taken seriously.  I mean, unless your opponent is a jerk (and therefore not worth playing against) it is easy enough to just ignore all the silly rules that have obviously been put in there for a joke.

I said this same thing on warseer.
They took that as gw personally slighting them in spite of their years of service and got very, very miffed at the thought of anything being "a joke" .
I regret opening a new warseer account.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 04, 2015, 02:11:43 PM
They are pretty silly, but also quite funny. I mean, the whole thing lacks appeal to me so I will likely never use the rules, but if doing a jig got me a sporting +1 I'd do it.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Peabody on July 04, 2015, 04:10:17 PM
Quote from: Modhail on July 04, 2015, 08:57:33 AM
So, if you're still playing one of the old, probably soon-to-be-mothballed armies, you're actually required by the rules to publicly humiliate yourself to keep playing the game?!?
I..Wow... :o...Jeez...
I thought GW were bad for belittling their customers in the past, but I almost feel like GW should be reported for bullying now.
You just know some arseholes will rigorously enforce this...
I've been saying it for years; GW has been carrying on an abusive relationship with its customers & fans.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 04, 2015, 04:16:50 PM
Hi guys I have just skimmed the rules and the warscrolls lol

I applaud the silliness it reminds me of the old days ;) but I can't see the younger crowd going in for it "why so serious!"

But I can't get away from the idea that GW is having a laugh at all us "sad" gamers and that something else is under way in secret behind all this most excellent publicity.

time will tell, or not

hey ho

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 04, 2015, 04:28:57 PM
Age of sigmarmite.Love it or hate it, it's going to end up in the cupboard somehow.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 04, 2015, 04:35:48 PM
according to mr.rentons facebook ,it seems KOW is reciving record levels of attention and huge pre oders.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 04, 2015, 05:03:44 PM
Quote from: Scurv on July 04, 2015, 04:34:15 PM
This makes it easy to make everyone else's figs obsolete overnight

But you could still use them, providing you don't have an inferiority complex over yours being smaller than theirs and you don't mind doing odd things to gain your modifiers... seems fair to me.

Or you can just buy into the 'new' play with guys the same size as yours and help push the Dow index upwards  

 ;)

Quote from: nic-e on July 04, 2015, 04:35:48 PM
according to mr.rentons facebook ,it seems KOW is reciving record levels of attention and huge pre oders.

Yes there is a rumour about the Age of Renton being upon us.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on July 04, 2015, 05:24:04 PM
It's only the sigmarines that are bigger.

Can't no one tell apart a 40mm base from a 25mm one? 'Cause that would shed some light regarding the size of the chaos guys, which are the same size that they ever were.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: affun on July 04, 2015, 05:29:43 PM
Quote from: Ajsalium on July 04, 2015, 05:24:04 PM
It's only the sigmarines that are bigger.

Can't no one tell apart a 40mm base from a 25mm one? 'Cause that would shed some light regarding the size of the chaos guys, which are the same size that they ever were.

Chaos guys are on 32mm bases though. I do agree - The chaos guys seems about the same size as always, if maybe a little bit bigger - but that is consistent with their "regular" scale-creep.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on July 04, 2015, 06:40:19 PM
Quote from: affun on July 04, 2015, 05:29:43 PM
Chaos guys are on 32mm bases though.
Sorry, my bad. Still, only the not-marines are true-scale-marine sized.

I got a carried away because I honestly can't understand this attitude.

People have moaned that GW was taking itself too seriously, and forgetting that games are about getting fun. And now, we have people moaning that GW has introduced about a dozen jokes amidst hundreds of rules, as if it were a personal insult. Maybe people shouldn't take Warhammer too seriously?

Also... The end of Warhammer is here! Err.... yes. GW has been saying so for months. How come people act now surprised, as if the end of WFB was unexpected? If a company says they are going to destroy their IP property and remake it, be prepared for the IP property to be destroyed and remade. Simples.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on July 04, 2015, 06:46:40 PM
Quote from: Ajsalium on July 04, 2015, 06:40:19 PM
People have moaned that GW was taking itself too seriously, and forgetting that games are about getting fun. And now, we have people moaning that GW has introduced about a dozen jokes amidst hundreds of rules, as if it were a personal insult.

Did you verify that it was the same people (and/or the majority) both times?

You know, "people" vote different political parties too, even in the same elections.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 04, 2015, 07:00:25 PM
I am quite interested to see what silly rules they chuck into the next edition of 40K.

I actually quite like them. compared to some of the naming for the miniatures etc, they actually sound like a bit of a laugh to lighten the !WAR! mood.

"War! huh! What is it good for"

"+1 to your save rolls mate, but your mustache is pathetic."

Will there be a Karaoke version do you think?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 04, 2015, 07:15:16 PM
Even allowing for the base depth differences 'Space Marine™ sized' is not strictly accurate.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ETVielQUNf0/VZgiEx6CqFI/AAAAAAAAVH0/SV71M5IVb9g/s640/Sigmar.jpg)
Not my work btw...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on July 04, 2015, 07:21:58 PM
True-scale-marine-sized...

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p2xNXoZBoCU/VZfMn9NLfbI/AAAAAAAADwU/nu2xc6Su0ys/s1600/IMG_0556.JPG)

Adeptus Custodes (or whatever they are called) conversion by Inso. I guess he'll post it on the Future Wars forum once he paints it.

EDIT: Damn! He has already posted it: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=80228.0 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Steve F on July 04, 2015, 07:26:51 PM
What does "true-scale" mean?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on July 04, 2015, 07:36:06 PM
It means that they are as big as they should be, bearing in mind that the fluff says that space marines are seven feet tall (they are selected from the biggest baddest guys and then genetically engineered). But the minis were just as tall as imperial guard ones, who are just common guys (say, six feet tall). So in the last few years there have appeared a bunch of companies that sell pieces to create space marines that are aprox 35mm tall, which is what a seven-feet-tall guy would be in 28-30mm scale. A business opportunity GW has decided to grab, but without the need to recognize, neither explicitly nor implicitly, that their marines are too small.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Steve F on July 04, 2015, 07:38:00 PM
Oh, so it means "scale creep".  The problem was that the IG were too big, not that that the space marines were too small.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on July 04, 2015, 07:41:38 PM
IG were right on scale, at 30mm tall.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 04, 2015, 08:33:07 PM
Quote from: Scurv on July 04, 2015, 04:24:51 PM
I finally figured it out. GW are making not figures of the mantic angelic human army. Irony it snot just for getting the wrinkles out of shirty's.

Quote from: nic-e on July 04, 2015, 04:28:57 PM
Age of sigmarmite.Love it or hate it, it's going to end up in the cupboard somehow.

 lol

Welp, 4 copies left when I phoned the GW shop. None left when I got there. Still, I got a look at the assembled preview copies of the starter set minis. Yes, the sigmarines are a good head taller than the regular khorne guys, though the latter are still pretty chunky in themselves. The 'leader' khorne guys are a similar height to the sigmarines, despite being on 32mm bases

To be honest I don't think they look too bad for what they are. But when you turn the sigmarines around, the first thing I thought was 'whoa, they must hoik their golden undies up hard.' The crotch is about on the proportional level that a normal human's waist would be.

Quote from: Timbor on July 04, 2015, 01:43:58 PM
A lot of rage over the silly rules they tossed in there... my first impression on reading those was that they weren't meant to be taken seriously.  I mean, unless your opponent is a jerk (and therefore not worth playing against) it is easy enough to just ignore all the silly rules that have obviously been put in there for a joke.

Quote from: Gibby on July 04, 2015, 12:59:16 PM
So were points systems really. The divide between sporting players and gimps who want to build unbeatable forces has always been there, whether you do it by using a point system or not. I've already seen people on the Warhammer Forum who have found ways with these new rules to cheese-win in turn 1.

One blackshirt explained it today: 'if someone wants to be a douche, you can be a douche back. If someone wants to play nice, then it's great'. True enough, but I'm not so convinced 'cos that was like the excuse GW fans give for points-based cheesery and powergaming. And that was possible because points-based matchups are not inherently balanced; not when you seem to shuttle between picking points values out of a hat, and favouring the newest, biggest toys, like GW does. From what I hear any kind of playtesting done in Nottingham consists of a couple of guys knocking about, not caring what happens, just waiting to see things blow up. Just as they imagine every other 40K/WFB player doing, which is far from accurate.
You'll get 'those guys' in any game but GW's two seem to really foster them, thanks to what looks like an almost complete breakdown between the studio's apparent intent* (anything-goes, 'narrative-forging' games) and what a great many gamers assume the intent to be. I.e. a heavily points-based system = some kind of competitive, 'tournament' gaming. That so many people can easily hunt out the most overpowered, undercosted units and items, and figure how to slot them into nigh-invincible combos, is more an indication of the attitude of the GW studio (and the overly strategic, 'mathammery' nature of the games) than a failure of points-based wargaming.
I'd say that the abandonment of points in AoS is at least more honest and aware on GW's part. Still don't think it'll make the game much more playable, though.

* 'Course, there's the train of thought that the studio doesn't have much say in the matter, viz. Rick Priestley's reasons for leaving.

Meanwhile, back at the GW store, there was the guy (let's call him a stereotypical GW store inhabitant) who came up to me and the guy I happened to be standing adjacent to (Why us? Who knows?) to tell us about the hilarious new rule he just found: when your hero challenges your opponent's, or something, you can specify which body part he's going to hit. If successful, your opponent has to act as if they recieved the injury themselves. I.e. if their hero's right hand is injured, your opponent has to roll dice and move minis with their left hand for the rest of the game. And that's just the start of the potential japery of that one rule. I'm actually surprised at the effort it took to politely chuckle at his discovery, rather than stare in disbelief.

I was going to download all these free rules 'cos they're free, and one more option for gaming; now I don't think I even want to read them. It sounds like those stupid novelty boardgames that get you to stand up and act like a tool for one game, then gets shoved in the back of a cupboard and forgotten. People say you can just ignore the daft rules or not take them so seriously; but an awful lot of GW fans are notorious for doing things by the book, by the letter of the rules, grabbing whatever tiny, arbitrary loophole and advantage they can. They're either going to leave in droves, or make the game even more intolerable and unplayable for many people. (You can also ignore the daft rules by... playing something else. And a tightly-written, reasonably balanced game hurts no-one on the sliding scale between 'serious' and 'non-serious' gamers.) I've been a bit sceptical but otherwise undecided; but guys, now I honestly think this is the death of WFB. This is the game soiling itself in the last stages of senility.

Oh, and while I didn't get this issue of WD, I wandered into the newsagent and saw the newest issue of W:SS was out! Score!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duke Donald on July 04, 2015, 08:45:23 PM
I can't see this being a commercial success either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on July 04, 2015, 09:02:30 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 04, 2015, 08:33:07 PM

Oh, and while I didn't get this issue of WD, I wandered into the newsagent and saw the newest issue of W:SS was out! Score!

£15 to £45 BIN prices on Ebay if you really want that WD!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 04, 2015, 09:17:24 PM
Quote from: Ajsalium on July 04, 2015, 07:41:38 PM
IG were right on scale, at 30mm tall.

Well no, as the Marines are one of the 'original' figure ranges and were supposed to be 7' tall at 33mm (4.7mm to the foot), then to be 'on scale' the IG should have been 28mm tall (or about 25mm sole to eye if you prefer).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on July 04, 2015, 09:26:38 PM
28mm... naked, or wearing combat gear?

Just kidding. This is quickly escalating into a button counting match... for GW products! ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Astor on July 04, 2015, 10:46:48 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 04, 2015, 08:33:07 PM
Meanwhile, back at the GW store, there was the guy (let's call him a stereotypical GW store inhabitant) who came up to me and the guy I happened to be standing adjacent to (Why us? Who knows?) to tell us about the hilarious new rule he just found: when your hero challenges your opponent's, or something, you can specify which body part he's going to hit. If successful, your opponent has to act as if they recieved the injury themselves. I.e. if their hero's right hand is injured, your opponent has to roll dice and move minis with their left hand for the rest of the game. And that's just the start of the potential japery of that one rule.

Bugger that for a game of soldiers.

Oh, wait...

Quote from: Vermis
You can also ignore the daft rules by... playing something else. And a tightly-written, reasonably balanced game hurts no-one on the sliding scale between 'serious' and 'non-serious' gamers.

Agreed 100%. But after a few conversations with friends who are seemingly quite taken with AoS, that means I'm against the concept of 'fun', and that since fantasy is about 'having a laugh' (or, as you say, acting like a tool) I should give up on something I liked and go play 'boring' Napoleonics...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 05, 2015, 12:59:52 AM
Seems lots of people like the new stuff, and others not so much.  To my mind the real value GW had was in their IP.  If they blow that up, I'm not sure what is left to them given the competition.... 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 05, 2015, 01:46:06 AM
What on earth is the mini in that WD that people want so badly?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duke Donald on July 05, 2015, 01:57:48 AM
Quote
What on earth is the mini in that WD that people want so badly?

An oversized cyberman on steroids
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 05, 2015, 03:10:40 AM
You just described more than half of the 40k line.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 05, 2015, 06:48:57 AM
Quote from: Ajsalium on July 04, 2015, 09:26:38 PM
28mm... naked, or wearing combat gear?

Just kidding. This is quickly escalating into a button counting match... for GW products! ;D

I always try to stick to what I do best.  :D

Quote from: Scurv on July 04, 2015, 10:57:35 PM
Anyone that plays with me knows I mix and match all sorts of insane stuff glued to random sized bases on a regular basis....
*snip*
I think like many here every single post about this new game is with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

I didn't mean you specifically btw... I was talking in general. And yes, nobody here seems to be getting bent out of shape over this, which is of course how we generally roll here on LAF. You're buddy's right though, you don't blow up the world, at best you only threaten and try to. I suppose they could always back-step somewhere down the line and 'it was all a dream' it.
;) 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 05, 2015, 09:52:32 AM
I just noticed that in the age of sigmar PDF's every elf has the "Aelf" tag. I'm pretty sure they are trying to make every faction have a name that they can copyright.

EDIT: right, dwarfs? you mean "Duardin?" And what are these lizardmen you speak of, we only have "Seraphon"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fastolfrus on July 05, 2015, 10:12:52 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 04, 2015, 04:31:23 AM
Holy shit... how deep does this rabbit hole go?!


Total bloody nuisance springs to mind.

I run a school club where we try to encourage sporting behaviour - shaking hands after games, not dancing about acting like a dork, not being overly rude about your opponent always failing rolls, etc.
Now GW decide to make their gamers look like nutters.
Although we don't have any GW players in club, we still get non members (and parents) who think we are.
It annoys me that we get tarred with their brush.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 05, 2015, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: Vermis on July 04, 2015, 08:33:07 PM

This is the game soiling itself in the last stages of senility.


This should be the marketing tagline. It's honest, to the point and sums it all up very nicely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 05, 2015, 11:59:02 AM
Quote from: YPU on July 05, 2015, 09:52:32 AM
I just noticed that in the age of sigmar PDF's every elf has the "Aelf" tag. I'm pretty sure they are trying to make every faction have a name that they can copyright.

Well I wish them good luck with that 'Aelf' is one of several Old English terms for Elf. They'd have more chance copyrighting the term 'Space Marine'... oh wait...

 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 05, 2015, 12:14:05 PM
Aren't Red Box Games elves named "aelf"?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on July 05, 2015, 12:21:27 PM
Whenever I hear/read that name, I'm reminded of Ælftor (http://elftor.com/elftor.php?number=156)...

(It was a one-off strip, by the way. The rest of that comic is a bit different.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 05, 2015, 12:52:32 PM
Got the White Dwarf yesterday, read the background, looked at the free model and skimmed across the rules.

Forget about WFB, this is a completely new game. WFB is dead. The reason they put up war scrolls for free for every unit in WFB 8th is nothing more than a service to existing players, hoping they will give AoS a go ( my interpretation ).
The background is sort of promising. I think we can expect lots and lots of campaign books and boxed sets. After all, what you get in the starter box are nothing more than the opening moves in the quest for Sigmar to recover control of the corrupted 9 realms.
Demo players report the contents of the box are pretty balanced. Not seen them yet, but If I'm correct in the book there will be some kind of mini-campaign to get you started. 6 scenario's...
And, lets be honest. Swordmasters of Hoeth, balanced or not? Does it really matter?  In AoS there will be no longer High Elfs, or Swordmasters, or Hoeth, or Ulthuan for that matter. I guess the existing WFB units will be fased out as soon as their A0S descendants will hit the shelves.
The Sigmarine that came with it is at first glance a bit mehhh. After putting it together it looks better, but still not to my taste. Chronopia players will recognise the style. And remember, these are not humans. They are sparks of his chosen champions a long time ago, lightning flows through their vains ( yaddayaddayadda, you get the point ) but basically they are just suits of armour containing a life essence. So you can choose to pick whatever armoured model you like, if you don't want to spend money on GW/AoS.  
What doesn't help is the ( imho ) horrible choice of colours GW chose for the Sigmarines. A prelude to the Ultramarines maybe? I'll have a go at the model - when I feel like it - but probably will go for a more Royal Knightly/Crusader look, white plate armour with gold and/or red decoration.

I will get the starter box ( on a discount, of course, no need to rush  lol ) and will give it a fair try. I've left WFB after the 4th edition, because of the models, the pricing, the powered-up rules and a few more reasons, but as this is a new game, why not? Don't expect me to buy GW miniatures though, I will use my old selection of models as I don't like to spend hours putting together plastic kits from models I don't like at prices I don't want to spend on sprues to have a game.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 05, 2015, 01:35:42 PM
Preordered it at local GameShop, he gets discount,think it's £67 ?
Almost a bargain by GW standards.
Ideal for me and my ten year old son .  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on July 05, 2015, 04:07:56 PM
Well, AOS isn't for me having read the rules and perused the warscrolls.

I'm glad that I got the army books that still interested me last month, and I'll look to fill the gaps in my 8th version armies over the next few months. I think it is telling that the minimum unit size for, say, goblins is only 10 compared to current box size of 20, so I assume that they'll soon be halving the size of the box and increasing the price with repackaging.

The only thing form AOS that might interest me so far is the scenery.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 05, 2015, 04:22:52 PM
Quote from: Astor on July 04, 2015, 10:46:48 PM
Agreed 100%. But after a few conversations with friends who are seemingly quite taken with AoS, that means I'm against the concept of 'fun', and that since fantasy is about 'having a laugh' (or, as you say, acting like a tool) I should give up on something I liked and go play 'boring' Napoleonics...  ::)

Sorry, had to read that a couple of times to make sure I wasn't the one at fault. lol I've been chewed out for something like that before: telling people they can just try some other game if Warhammer loses it's sparkle, when the rest of their group is firmly fixated on GW and won't look elsewhere. I don't think there's any easy answer to that. (For me to move on from GW took my group of vets to be cleared out of the store, and onto kitchen tables and into clubs we never knew existed) But like I say, I honestly think the novelty of AoS might wear off quicker than usual.

The attitude that fantasy is just a bit of nonsense and frippery, and to pot with any notions of consistency, dignity or game balance, is something that's irritated me for a long time. Anyone who remembers me from the sweaty armpit of the internet (aka Frothers) might remember my old, embarrassingly demented rants about dragon anatomy, for example.
Aye, fantasy's more a type of escapism, and not so serious, consequential and set-in-stone as history (or so some historical players would have you believe), and I'm far from opposed to mixing up themes and stories and having fun with them, like Mars' dwarf games or Scurv's example just below your post. Even one of my old moans about dragons was that they seem to be converging on one slab-scaled, fangy-snarled, tyrannosaurus-with-wings-and-steroids style, and fewer people were mixing it up like D&D, Grenadier etc used to.
But in Mars' case at least, I know he chose some tight, well-written rulesets to have fun with. (Sorry Scurv, don't know your rules preferences) That's my likes in a nutshell. It's only my opinion and one way of doing things, but I prefer fantasy that has a solid framework, drawing from history or real life, having an internal consistency, having a well thought-out and balanced ruleset or whatever. Something to get your teeth into. Then you can go as serious or wacky as you like with it. 'Anything goes', in official setting or rules, just looks too sloppy and bores me silly before too long.

I mentioned the latest issue of W:SS. Richard 'Too Fat Lardies' Clarke's column in it was on a similar topic. He was having a pop at historical gamers dismissing the whole hobby as 'just a game' (in fact I think he went a bit much like the 'historicals = srs bsns' thing in some places) but some points jumped out at me.

Quote
Unlike darts, where the participants simply chuck arrows at a board, or football, where they kick a ball about and fall to the ground crying occasionally, wargaming is a multifarious hobby, where the vast majority of us are also interested in the soldiers, the strategy, and indeed, the general history of warfare...
Frankly, if some people feel I'm wrong and that it is indeed "just a game", then that's fine by me... What does concern me is the on-line reaction those who stood up for wargaming as a learning tool were met with - at best ridicule, at worst vitriol. Their crime? To stand up for the hobby they enjoy.

I like the soldiers, strategy and history aspects of wargaming myself, as much as it applies to fantasy. I like recreating certain armies or characters. I like taxing myself in a wargame, same as taxing myself with sculpting, a game of sudoku or The Lords of Midnight (http://www.thelordsofmidnight.com) or whatever, even chucking arrows or kicking a football if the situation arises. It's one way to go about wargaming. Chucking dice while mucking about with your mates is another way. Can't understand the attitude that the latter is the sole province of fantasy, laxity and 'fun', while the former is just for historicals and dry simulations, too serious and 'boring'. Especially when there's been so much overlap - WFB to WAB, Warmaster to Warmaster Ancients and Hail Caesar et al, DBX to HoTT, and many other fantasy adaptations of historical sets, historical army lists for fantasy sets, etc. Whether you're playing Napoleonics or nose-picking orcs shouldn't make much difference to the elegance of the rules or, indeed, the fun.

Quote from: Cubs on July 05, 2015, 10:34:14 AM
This should be the marketing tagline. It's honest, to the point and sums it all up very nicely.

:D

Quote from: Arlequín on July 05, 2015, 11:59:02 AM
Well I wish them good luck with that 'Aelf' is one of several Old English terms for Elf. They'd have more chance copyrighting the term 'Space Marine'... oh wait...

 ;)

Aye, that! :) GW made a game based on old fantasy settings and tropes, decided it wasn't very easily defended with copyrights and trademarks, blew it up, and started a new game based on... old settings and tropes...

Quote from: Duncan McDane on July 05, 2015, 12:52:32 PM
I will get the starter box ( on a discount, of course, no need to rush  lol ) and will give it a fair try. I've left WFB after the 4th edition, because of the models, the pricing, the powered-up rules and a few more reasons, but as this is a new game, why not? Don't expect me to buy GW miniatures though, I will use my old selection of models as I don't like to spend hours putting together plastic kits from models I don't like at prices I don't want to spend on sprues to have a game.

Can't argue with that!

Quote from: AfricanAl on July 05, 2015, 04:07:56 PM
I think it is telling that the minimum unit size for, say, goblins is only 10 compared to current box size of 20, so I assume that they'll soon be halving the size of the box and increasing the price with repackaging.

I've been wondering if the reduced game size might lead to that kind of thing, again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Genialjim on July 05, 2015, 06:05:22 PM
I think GW's espousal of this new  Manichaean vision is just part of a scheme to prepare us all for CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 05, 2015, 06:41:35 PM
Well I had a bit of a shock today :o

went to bluewater to watch terminator genysis with my son,  and GW bluewater is gone as is lakeside. So no telling whats going down with the corporate suits.

I don't go to bluewater too often, but still I am quite surprised to put it mildly ???

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 06, 2015, 01:38:48 AM
Quote
With the rules for Josef Bugman (+1 Bravery if I'm holding a drink), the Thane with Battle Standard (reroll any failed hits if I have a bigger beard than my opponent), and Longbeards (bonus rule for the unit if I complain in a suitably Dwarfish manner about how things used to be better), it looks like showing up to an Age of Sigmar tournament unshaven, drinking from a hip flask, and complaining about how AoS sucks compared to previous editions is no longer a tournament faux pas, but actually a viable tactic.

What a time to be alive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 06, 2015, 05:48:53 AM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on July 06, 2015, 06:44:12 AM
I just like internal consistency. If it's joke game, that good. If it's a serious game, that's good. Only thing that bugs me is when either the game or a player starts going "off model" after they've spent deliberate effort setting up particular expectations one way or another.

I enjoy both paradigms, just, y'know, if you set things up to be a serious game, don't suddenly try to lawyer in a silly anime bunny girl character "just because". If it's a non-serious popcorn adventure, don't bitch at me for my silly anime bunny girl character. That's really all I'd ask of both other players and fluff/rules writers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 06, 2015, 10:31:53 AM
I've always found that the people I have played with have always managed to inject enough humour themselves, without the need for the rules to push them to.

Let's face it, how many times can you hear the same joke and still laugh?  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 06, 2015, 11:07:19 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on July 06, 2015, 10:31:53 AM
I've always found that the people I have played with have always managed to inject enough humour themselves, without the need for the rules to push them to.

Let's face it, how many times can you hear the same joke and still laugh?  ::)

Exactly - couldn't have put it better myself.

I'm already reasonably silly at key moments during many games with good friends (and we do try and vary the jokes... mostly), but I'd prefer to make the judgement on when that's appropriate behaviour for myself.

I am however amazed on other forums how this seems to have been the most divisive thing since the invention of Marmite. I mean, more than anything else about AoS.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 06, 2015, 12:20:10 PM
I think its ok. Really.

Its all going to be alright.

Its going to be ok.

Don't worry.

WFB is just taking a little tiny holiday.

If it really does look like AOS is panning big time, they will:

1. release version 2 with either new joke rules or take them out.
2. move forward Sigmar's glorious re-unification of the 9 realms/colours/whatever, and suddenly, lo! WFB 9th Edition is born!

Everybody can get back to the same world and unending war.

Then Everyone can denounce them for Killing off AOS.

 :D

Of course with suitable price increases, repackaging to smaller box/unit contents, etc.

AOS Miniatures will be moved forward in time to re-emerge in the distant dark !WAR!FOREVER!EMP'OR! future that is 40.5k  revive the emporer from the golden throne (really Sigmar having a long nap), stick on a few backpack powerpacks and go - new edition 40K rules, with stupid joke rules about helmets and codpieces etc, and bigger miniatures.

Do I need to mention hex bases again or would that be to over the top?

 ;D


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 06, 2015, 12:55:02 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 06, 2015, 12:20:10 PM
Do I need to mention hex bases again or would that be to over the top?

No, no need; I expect the next incarnation to have dispensed with all bases completely.

You will instead be expected to buy a complicated overhead model suspension system, complete with fake plastic servo skull adornments, and there will be on launch a limited edition version of the same that comes with a clamp so that you can attach it to the side of the gaming table for play (and comes in a canvas bag that adds £100.00 to the regular RRP cost).  So, all very Terry Gilliam really.  :P

Rules-wise, I expect the next edition will award all sorts of weapon bonuses for the players who actually make the sounds of their models' weapons being used, and armour bonuses for the players who act out the pantomime of their models being struck by said weapons. Victory points will be determined at the end via a single round of rock-paper-scissors, modified by the final score difference (this outcome will require an FAQ to resolve, but that will never actually be released - instead the FAQ will just correct an IP name spelling to be more IP-protectable).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 06, 2015, 01:28:05 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 06, 2015, 12:55:02 PM
No, no need; I expect the next incarnation to have dispensed with all bases completely.

You will instead be expected to buy a complicated overhead model suspension system, complete with fake plastic servo skull adornments, and there will be on launch a limited edition version of the same that comes with a clamp so that you can attach it to the side of the gaming table for play (and comes in a canvas bag that adds £100.00 to the regular RRP cost).  So, all very Terry Gilliam really.  :P

Rules-wise, I expect the next edition will award all sorts of weapon bonuses for the players who actually make the sounds of their models' weapons being used, and armour bonuses for the players who act out the pantomime of their models being struck by said weapons. Victory points will be determined at the end via a single round of rock-paper-scissors, modified by the final score difference (this outcome will require an FAQ to resolve, but that will never actually be released - instead the FAQ will just correct an IP name spelling to be more IP-protectable).

ahhh so more like LARPHammer then - maybe you have to play with your dangly miniature bits whilst dressing in a convincingly similar way to your armies theme...?

That certainly might make some games more interesting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 06, 2015, 02:01:00 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 06, 2015, 01:28:05 PM
ahhh so more like LARPHammer then - maybe you have to play with your dangly miniature bits whilst dressing in a convincingly similar way to your armies theme...?

That certainly might make some games more interesting.

Especially if the seraphon keep their predecessor's dress code of nothing at all! Nothing at all! Nothing at all!

Stupid sexy Lizards!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 06, 2015, 02:14:24 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 06, 2015, 02:01:00 PM
Especially if the seraphon keep their predecessor's dress code of nothing at all! Nothing at all! Nothing at all!

Stupid sexy Lizards!

Great, now I've got mental images of a Saurus warrior shaking his rear and I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 06, 2015, 02:19:49 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 06, 2015, 02:01:00 PM
Especially if the seraphon keep their predecessor's dress code of nothing at all! Nothing at all! Nothing at all!

Stupid sexy Lizards!

I see.  :-I

So sir finds those lizards....

sexy...

 :-I

Well that got weirder as fast as expected, good thing there's no Tyrannids in AOS

Yet...

 ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dewbakuk on July 06, 2015, 03:17:38 PM
Well, love it or hate it, they're going full bore with it.

This was replaced today

(http://theghic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/games-workshop.jpg)


With this

(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Age-of-Sigmar-Alt.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on July 06, 2015, 03:44:41 PM
Looks like they found a use for all the leftover FailCast resin  :D, although the poor thing's hammer will probably melt in the next week or so
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 06, 2015, 03:48:15 PM
I can understand the comments in other forums regarding that and the new symbol on the building.

At least they have maintained the

Quote from: Vermis on July 03, 2015, 05:44:03 PM
heroic stance (http://v004o.popscreen.com/eHZseXN4MTI=_o_blackadder-season-03-episode-04---sense-and-senility.jpg).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 06, 2015, 04:42:17 PM
Quote from: Dewbakuk on July 06, 2015, 03:17:38 PM
(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Age-of-Sigmar-Alt.png)

Hmm, needs more gold. Some shading and highlighting would probably help too.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 06, 2015, 04:43:02 PM
Hope they didn't bankrupt themselves using their own £17/can gold spray paint...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 06, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on July 06, 2015, 04:43:02 PM
Hope they didn't bankrupt themselves using their own £17/can gold spray paint...

Especially as it's paint and not primer, so any fans who touch* that Sigmarine would soon find the paint just flaking off!






*Don't ask... There's probably a rule benefit associated with it.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 06, 2015, 05:27:51 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 06, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
Especially as it's paint and not primer, so any fans who touch* that Sigmarine would soon find the paint just flaking off!






*Don't ask... There's probably a rule benefit associated with it.  ::)

Sudden death rule for trying to play with partially/unpainted minis if to much flakes/rubs off?


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Peabody on July 06, 2015, 05:31:59 PM
Spray your mouth with gold paint and auto-success all your to-hit rolls? ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 06, 2015, 05:54:35 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 06, 2015, 04:54:18 PM
*Don't ask... There's probably a rule benefit associated with it.  ::)

Probably a +1 on EVERY roll in the game if you can prove you made the pilgrimage to Holy Lenton to touch the foot of the Blessed Sigmarine...

Still, the building looks less like the backdrop to a Nazi rally now...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 06, 2015, 06:00:09 PM
So what happened to the big marine and the giant eagle?
 I imagine they sold the marine to some warlord as a prototype weapon, and the eagle to a young up and coming political dictatorship to adorn their headquarters.

Also, really?! That marine and aquila ,whilst old, were universally known symbols of games workshop! You didn't need to have played or even know a damn thing about the lord/hobby, you know that that is a gw space marine and that's the warhammer 40k eagle! now what will people think?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dewbakuk on July 06, 2015, 06:15:47 PM
The marine and Aquila have gone round the back to join the rhino etc outside Warhammer World.

The local taxi drivers often used to refer to the GW building as either the Reichstag or the nazi building. That probably helped the decision...

I think it would look better if it wasn't on a gold plinth too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on July 06, 2015, 06:47:26 PM
To be honest, I think it would look better if it wasn't there... 
It's just soooo gaudy!

I get the Reichstag nickname though, and it wasn't just the eagle. The original floorplan of Warhammer World could have been designed by Speer himself.
(Personally I'm still amazed no-one or no local political party raised a kerfuffle when they hoisted that Eagle onto the facade...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 06, 2015, 07:49:20 PM
Quote from: Mr. Peabody on July 06, 2015, 05:31:59 PM
Spray your mouth with gold paint and auto-success all your to-hit rolls? ;D

I'm imagining the release for the new WFB with Tom Kirby doing this and then racing out onto the floor of the London stock exchange screaming "WITNESS ME!!!" while brokers scream back "WITNESS!!!!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 06, 2015, 10:44:41 PM
Right, i gave the rules a full play through and a quick play test by myself with whatever i had on the shelf.

I have to say that as a bare bones set of rules.... i kind of like it ...  o_o

It isn't fantasy in any form ,but i never played fantasy, i liked some of the models but never had any intention of getting into it for the exact reasons AoS was created,because ti was too expensive to start and had way to high a model count, and rules that seemed kind of old school on a bad way to me.
This feels VERY gw, but in a VERY new and different way, it has some of that 80's punky, everything fighting everything else for the sheer fun kind of vibe.

Is it perfect?Far from it, but i'm expecting after a bit of fleshing out ,this will turn into a pretty good solid system for having casual fun games.
(no, i did not do the dancing/drinking parts with myself. I chose units that lacked those rules.)

I hate to say it, but i think this game was aimed squarely at people like me,And GW have done a good job at hitting that mark.

(But i do see where the hate is coming from , because F**k, they destroyed fantasy! )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on July 06, 2015, 10:56:12 PM
Quote from: Mr. Peabody on July 06, 2015, 05:31:59 PM
Spray your mouth with gold paint and auto-success all your to-hit rolls? ;D

lol lol

WFB Dies, to live again. (At least that's their intention) Brothers, we shall see WFB in Valhalla!

 ;D

It's probably best they moved the Nazi memorabilia around the back, it's a slightly better public image ;)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 06, 2015, 11:01:36 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on July 06, 2015, 10:56:12 PM
lol lol

WFB Dies, to live again. (At least that's their intention) Brothers, we shall see WFB in Valhalla!

 ;D

It's probably best they moved the Nazi memorabilia around the back, it's a slightly better public image ;)

Cheers
Matt

The Back - Its the New Front you realize

And under all that gold paint is a Space Marine just waiting to burst out shouting "surprise! it was all a dream!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: baldlea on July 07, 2015, 12:12:00 AM
The only thing I really dislike about the new game is that melee and wound rolls are not relative to the skills of the attacker and defender. A goblin has as much chance of hitting and wounding a dragon as he does a butterfly.

The rest of it I could live with as a fun game. We'll likely stick to 8th ed in our group though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 07, 2015, 12:29:28 AM
Quote from: baldlea on July 07, 2015, 12:12:00 AM
The only thing I really dislike about the new game is that melee and wound rolls are not relative to the skills of the attacker and defender. A goblin has as much chance of hitting and wounding a dragon as he does a butterfly.

The rest of it I could live with as a fun game. We'll likely stick to 8th ed in our group though.

I see alot of people worrying about that, but it oddly enough doesn't bother me.  I can see a goblin being able to HIT a dragon, especially when you consider that the mechanic is meant to represent 20-30 goblins all scrambling and stabbing like maniacs. The result of whether the hit is effective should be calculated using the save of the dragonk, which it is.
I think if i play a few more games and it does become an issue i might play around with house ruling a fix, but right now, it doesn't seem to be too much of an issue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: baldlea on July 07, 2015, 08:34:26 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 07, 2015, 12:29:28 AM
I see alot of people worrying about that, but it oddly enough doesn't bother me.  I can see a goblin being able to HIT a dragon, especially when you consider that the mechanic is meant to represent 20-30 goblins all scrambling and stabbing like maniacs. The result of whether the hit is effective should be calculated using the save of the dragonk, which it is.

I get that I suppose. It still makes the wound roll a little superfluous as they could have combined into save roll. It's things like this that have put me off since other, much smaller publishers are already doing this sort of game better.

Fair play to them in moving to scenarios though. It seems like a nicer way to keep people buying with out the "new army book" debacle.

Shame, though, as we'll likely use other systems for this type of game and stick to 8th (maybe 6th or 3rd) for the original style of game. I think they've lost me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 07, 2015, 10:08:04 AM
I can understand the simplification of the fixed to-hit rolls and such, although I do agree it's a bit poor. I guess that the score reflects a baseline "quality", and that weight of attacks/models/special rules for mobbing or whatever make up the difference.

What surprises me more though is that they tried this before with Epic 40k, and everyone apparently "hated it" enough for Jervis to change the whole system again for Epic: Armageddon.

Quote from: baldlea on July 07, 2015, 08:34:26 AM
Fair play to them in moving to scenarios though. It seems like a nicer way to keep people buying with out the "new army book" debacle.

^ As for this...

Well, let's just say that GW will still find a way to monetise rules and army composition. I mean, it's too lucrative and tempting for them not to! What we'll more likely see is a move to having unit rules bundled into their model boxes, or available separately on some sort of micro-transaction/DLC basis. And, as anyone with a functioning brain will point out; this is actually more expensive, and more of a barrier to having a complete set of rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 07, 2015, 11:50:55 AM
Just to deviate from the serious conversation,I wonder what the ooruks will look like ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 07, 2015, 12:27:13 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on July 07, 2015, 11:50:55 AM
Just to deviate from the serious conversation,I wonder what the ooruks will look like ?

Hmm, weirdly, I don't think they'll look too different. Hopefully they'll lose the "Action Man" arms though by dint of being full sculpts instead of mix-n-match affairs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 07, 2015, 12:28:35 PM
Assume main difference will be - bigger.

and fewer multipart-miniatures in each box..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: baldlea on July 07, 2015, 12:39:50 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 07, 2015, 10:08:04 AM
Well, let's just say that GW will still find a way to monetise rules and army composition. I mean, it's too lucrative and tempting for them not to! What we'll more likely see is a move to having unit rules bundled into their model boxes, or available separately on some sort of micro-transaction/DLC basis.

You're probably right but if the core principal will be to sell boxed sets with new scenarios and the associated figures and rules, it seems like a more elegant model to promote ongoing sales than ret-conning units and endless new editions.

Whether that's what they do remains to be seen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 07, 2015, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: baldlea on July 07, 2015, 12:39:50 PM
You're probably right but if the core principal will be to sell boxed sets with new scenarios and the associated figures and rules, it seems like a more elegant model to promote ongoing sales than ret-conning units and endless new editions.

Whether that's what they do remains to be seen.

Some months ago GW did say or indicate an intent in future to release limited edition units/sets, at least for 40K, that would then be replaced by the next short term available units/rules.

I expect that might feature for AOS as well - maintstay units, eg StormCast/Chaos and new short term available units with rules data sheet in box, so you either have them or not.

I would also expect they might make the data sheets for them available for download/purchase in electronic format until the unit was no longer available.

Another basic push to keep players buying the next box...

And of course whilst doing that, destroy all the old miniatures that the target new players would not want to play with anyway because, they are old, and the GW hobby is about the 'now', the 'new' latest bestest releases.

Like the no-doubt upcoming limited edition Space Hulk 2016 Edition... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 07, 2015, 12:59:10 PM
Quote from: baldlea on July 07, 2015, 12:12:00 AM
The only thing I really dislike about the new game is that melee and wound rolls are not relative to the skills of the attacker and defender. A goblin has as much chance of hitting and wounding a dragon as he does a butterfly.


This bugs me a bit too, though it's not just GW who do it. The same mechanic is used in Lion Rampant. You have an attack value and you roll it to hit, whether you are fighting a fully armoured man at arms or a stinking peasant. In that game the effectiveness of the hit is then down to the armour rating of the target, which equates to an amalgamated roll to wound/roll to save. There's a similar mechanic in Saga. I think both these games "get away" with it because it's man vs man. A fantasy game needs to (IMO) factor in all the different races and their varying skills/toughness, etc. It would be easy to house rule this, give a bonus/penalty if you felt the need. You have to make up quite a few rules in AOS so why not?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: LeadAsbestos on July 07, 2015, 02:14:23 PM
I think this is the right place for me to chime in, as my fellow LAF members wont shout me down ( I hope!): I need another set of rules as much as I need to fall down stairs, and the minis are the silliest pieces of crap I've really ever encountered in the hobby. I can't imagine ever buying anything AoS, and I don't know why anyone else would either. We are in a Golden Age of Choice for our toy soldiers, and these little chunks just don't make the grade.

There, I've said it! I feel great. Thank you. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on July 07, 2015, 03:00:57 PM
Good, get it off your chest!  lol
I have to agree though. What drew me to the Warhammer setting was Bretonnians and the dark, grim setting of the Old world. The first they neglected for years, the second they first watered down and PC-ified and then they blew it up! Currently, my attitude towards Warhammer and GW has gone from a sort of melancholy indifference to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvuM3DjvYf0
(Hmph, how do I get this to embed?)

I don't like the Siegmarines and I need a new ruleset, especially one of that "quality" like I need a jackhammer-trepanning.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on July 07, 2015, 03:57:19 PM
Quote from: LeadAsbestos on July 07, 2015, 02:14:23 PM
I can't imagine ever buying anything AoS, and I don't know why anyone else would either.

I'm probably going to get them. 47 minis for 100 Euros is a great price. The miniatures look nice and chunky and the detailing appears to be superb. I'm really not a fan of the present "tiny thin resin miniatures with tiny little details" which cost a boat load. Lots of very nice coming attractions as well (check those archers):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQseMwiSYY

These will be the first fantasy figures I have ever bought.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 07, 2015, 04:07:54 PM
Firestorm got the box set for  £64, the miniatures are going to be easy for me to paint,currently I'm going for tests for restricted blood flow to fingers,so haven't done any miniatures in ages. These nice and easy to do,Rules look simple ,and I can have fun with my kids.
I like the look of gold cyborg,Knights not space marines,I announce I will pull my pants down and let  GW spank me ,as they take my cash  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 07, 2015, 04:11:48 PM
I don't think I'd jump at the AoS rules, but I can understand the to-hit/armour save rolls, and agree with Nic-e. They're just abstracted in a different way. If you're in a tight scrum with a bunch of fellow goblins against humans or elves, or faced with a dragon as big as the broad side of a barn, then yeah, I don't wonder that you're going to hit something without much fuss. It's whether the thing stays hit or not. Think of the save roll not just abstracting toughness and armour together, but also the 'weapon skill' stat, opposed combat roll, or whatever else might include a parry, block, or goofy dodge.

Quote from: LeadAsbestos on July 07, 2015, 02:14:23 PM
I think this is the right place for me to chime in, as my fellow LAF members wont shout me down ( I hope!):

Far from it. lol

Hmm. Y'know, I might just start a wee dark elf army. I've admired those Jes Goodwin cold ones for a while and I guess I'd best get some while I can. (And while ebay might just become inundated)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on July 07, 2015, 04:53:52 PM
Quote from: LeadAsbestos on July 07, 2015, 02:14:23 PM
I think this is the right place for me to chime in, as my fellow LAF members wont shout me down ( I hope!): I need another set of rules as much as I need to fall down stairs, and the minis are the silliest pieces of crap I've really ever encountered in the hobby. I can't imagine ever buying anything AoS, and I don't know why anyone else would either. We are in a Golden Age of Choice for our toy soldiers, and these little chunks just don't make the grade.

There, I've said it! I feel great. Thank you. :)

Well I cant agree more. I was in the store to see other peoples reaction on saturday and it was fifty;fifty I shall stick to the older models and older rules (Mordheim, necromunda and gorkamorka) and just wait to see how long before the old range is gone while picking up things i need.

i appreciate some people may like them but I really cant stand them, to me the chaos look like chaos have for a while but the new terminators just dont look like they are fantasy and spoil the humanity side of the game...

(my opinions so I can stay in my ways )  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 07, 2015, 05:28:30 PM
With any new release, there will be some who love them, some who hate them, some in between, which is as it should be. I have noticed though, that it's mainly the GW haters that are very vocal, here and elsewhere. There are plenty of other new releases around that are sub-standard (in my eyes) yet seem to attract only praise. Indeed, if you voice your ambivalence, more often than not it is regarded as impolite. It's fine to hate GW, but not others. That irritates me a little.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 07, 2015, 06:33:56 PM
Frustration, Nord, with a company that seems to have lost its way.  GW are the professionals, not one guy writing rules or sculpting minis evenings and weekends.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 07, 2015, 07:51:50 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 07, 2015, 04:11:48 PM
Think of the save roll not just abstracting toughness and armour together, but also the 'weapon skill' stat, opposed combat roll, or whatever else might include a parry, block, or goofy dodge.


It's been a while since I played it, but isn't that kind of what D&D used to do?

From what I've read, people who play tested the rules seem to have had a fun game. It's just they're not what a lot of us know as 'Warhammer' ... just a new fantasy game. I don't have a dog in that fight because I'm just in it for the models and nostalgia anyhoo, so if there ever was a time when I'd play WFB again, I'd just stick to an early edition, possibly even the 1st Edition.

Hats off to them for having the courage to take a huge risk and ripping up the old broken versions. It'll be interesting to see what happens now, whether they'll sell off the old IP, grow a fantastic new system, sink like a stone, become Albanian folk dancers, or whatever.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 07, 2015, 09:18:31 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 07, 2015, 07:51:50 PM
It's just they're not what a lot of us know as 'Warhammer' ... just a new fantasy game.

I think that's the real issue for many... change. Do some small progressive rule changes here and there, and you get minor grumbles from those effected by them. Toss out the whole rule set and then say "this is what you will play with now", is bound to cause considerable uproar.

The acknowledgement of whether it is actually a better set of rules or not, will become apparent over time. I remember the end of the old WRG Ancients rules and the introduction of DBA... short of the four horsemen actually appearing, it was indeed the end of the world for a good many. Those that gave it a go, either still play it now, stuck with the old rule set, or moved on to something else... all will say they did the best thing.
 ;)

Quote from: Nord on July 07, 2015, 05:28:30 PM
With any new release, there will be some who love them, some who hate them, some in between, which is as it should be. I have noticed though, that it's mainly the GW haters that are very vocal, here and elsewhere. There are plenty of other new releases around that are sub-standard (in my eyes) yet seem to attract only praise. Indeed, if you voice your ambivalence, more often than not it is regarded as impolite. It's fine to hate GW, but not others. That irritates me a little.
   

I'm sorry but it is the same in any other aspect of life. When you set yourself up as the biggest and best (as they do in their advertising), then there is an expectation that what they do will reflect that (which they may or may not have done... time will tell). They are the market leaders (probably) and are the mark by which all others are compared.

It's no different in football or whatever... you don't hear people saying "[insert team name] played really well" if they are in the top three or four national teams; they are expected to have done well. Instead you hear complaints when they perform under expectations. Lower graded teams are not expected to do well when competing with the big boys, so when they exceed expectations everyone has little but praise, or at least acknowledges their effort.

It's lonely at the top.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 07, 2015, 09:57:44 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 07, 2015, 04:11:48 PM


Hmm. Y'know, I might just start a wee dark elf army. I've admired those Jes Goodwin cold ones for a while and I guess I'd best get some while I can. (And while ebay might just become inundated)

I was thinking of grabbing the cauldron of blood and a box of troops and then using the components to kitbash together a bunch of characters, a big avatar monster, a cauldron proxy war machine and then divide the troops into a couple of groups of 5 elites. I only want to play small games, which is what pushed me away from fantasy,so knowing i can actually use my earlier idea of breaking up the big kits into characterful units is great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Harrower on July 07, 2015, 10:53:02 PM
When I first heard the whole "Space Marines in Fantasy" thing I thought it couldn't be that bad, and I figured they'd be like dismounted Empire Knights or Greatswords, but I must stand corrected. They are bloody Fantasy Space Marines.

Beyond underwhelming.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: baldlea on July 07, 2015, 11:10:34 PM
In defence of the storm cast or whatever they're called I don't think they are the humans of the game. I get the impression that they are akin to angels. I think there will be standard humans at some point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 08, 2015, 12:10:40 AM
Quote from: baldlea on July 07, 2015, 11:10:34 PM
In defence of the storm cast or whatever they're called I don't think they are the humans of the game. I get the impression that they are akin to angels. I think there will be standard humans at some point.

From what i can tell they're the spirits of slain heroes reanimated by sigmar. the fluff says they are stronger and bigger than any other man,but also doesn't mention if their bodies are made or just resurrected and perfected. (or they are actually space marines and fantasy is 40k as seen through the eyes of a peasant watching as the warp storm brings the war to their realm in the eye of terror....)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 08, 2015, 01:20:25 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 08, 2015, 12:10:40 AM
From what i can tell they're the spirits of slain heroes reanimated by sigmar. the fluff says they are stronger and bigger than any other man,but also doesn't mention if their bodies are made or just resurrected and perfected. (or they are actually space marines and fantasy is 40k as seen through the eyes of a peasant watching as the warp storm brings the war to their realm in the eye of terror....)

So they're kind of like the thousand sons? Just animated armour with a bit of dust inside maybe?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 08, 2015, 02:06:48 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 08, 2015, 01:20:25 AM
So they're kind of like the thousand sons? Just animated armour with a bit of dust inside maybe?

maybe, i think we should get more fluff once we get more releases.

There is the new reliquary character who looks like a fantasy chaplain, with what i assume are his own old bones on the outside of his Armour ,who is meant to save peoples souls when they die so they can be reborn again. The fact that he can do this tells me they are more than just big people or at least he is (it states that they're all magic in some way) but also tells me that there is a physical body to be killed that the soul inhabits. (or he's an apothecary through the eyes of a peasant....)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 08, 2015, 07:12:02 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on July 07, 2015, 06:33:56 PM
Frustration, Nord, with a company that seems to have lost its way.  GW are the professionals, not one guy writing rules or sculpting minis evenings and weekends.
And a company that was good once, one which created well-beloved products and who could - in theory - once again be great and create beloved products.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 08, 2015, 08:33:02 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 08, 2015, 07:12:02 AM
And a company that was good once, one which created well-beloved products and who could - in theory - once again be great and create beloved products.

But words like "good" and "beloved" are purely subjective. You might not like them, but some will. I don't have a problem with that. My point is that (subjective) criticism is only aimed at this one company. There are stacks of companies out there who roll out bad sculpts, poorly put together product, pricey rubbish that gain "ooh nice", "lovely" and so on. Nobody tells them that their product looked bad 20 years ago and it's never changed.

There's a double standard applied and I don't think that's fair. To be honest, the new GW stuff doesn't grip me aesthetically, but the box set is well put together, the plastic figures are head and shoulders (pun intended) above the competition and they do produce a quality product. And the price is a bargain, it's about a £1.50 a figure, some of which are huge things. I will not be buying it myself, I'm not defending it because I like it, I'm just saying that the critiques are too one sided.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on July 08, 2015, 08:46:52 AM
Quote from: Nord on July 08, 2015, 08:33:02 AM
But words like "good" and "beloved" are purely subjective. You might not like them, but some will. I don't have a problem with that. My point is that (subjective) criticism is only aimed at this one company. There are stacks of companies out there who roll out bad sculpts, poorly put together product, pricey rubbish that gain "ooh nice", "lovely" and so on. Nobody tells them that their product looked bad 20 years ago and it's never changed.

There's a double standard applied and I don't think that's fair. To be honest, the new GW stuff doesn't grip me aesthetically, but the box set is well put together, the plastic figures are head and shoulders (pun intended) above the competition and they do produce a quality product. And the price is a bargain, it's about a £1.50 a figure, some of which are huge things. I will not be buying it myself, I'm not defending it because I like it, I'm just saying that the critiques are too one sided.

This is the GW discussion thread so it will be about peoples opinions of their products.....
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 08, 2015, 08:49:22 AM
$250 for the starter if you are Southern Hemisphere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 08, 2015, 08:53:34 AM
Quote from: Nord on July 08, 2015, 08:33:02 AM
But words like "good" and "beloved" are purely subjective. You might not like them, but some will. I don't have a problem with that. My point is that (subjective) criticism is only aimed at this one company. There are stacks of companies out there who roll out bad sculpts, poorly put together product, pricey rubbish that gain "ooh nice", "lovely" and so on. Nobody tells them that their product looked bad 20 years ago and it's never changed.

There's a double standard applied and I don't think that's fair. To be honest, the new GW stuff doesn't grip me aesthetically, but the box set is well put together, the plastic figures are head and shoulders (pun intended) above the competition and they do produce a quality product. And the price is a bargain, it's about a £1.50 a figure, some of which are huge things. I will not be buying it myself, I'm not defending it because I like it, I'm just saying that the critiques are too one sided.

Like with many things this is true.

Sadly I agree the aesthetics don't do it for me either, and its got SpaceMarine riddled right through it, and I have enough of those already. I await the model of Sigmar sitting on a Golden Throne..

Maybe the rules will develop well, and as said before wish them luck.

Other manufacturers also get criticism, but its not the same level, I agree, but in effect GW have had a larger influence, and impact than them, over more in this hobby than others. So a little bit extra effort and venom is applied when they do something. Liked or not.

But, there is plenty of good/bad stuff available, and some of it I like others don't. Which is good and ok as variety and differences in opinion help make the hobby more interesting.

Oh

Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 08, 2015, 01:20:25 AM
So they're kind of like the thousand sons? Just animated armour with a bit of dust inside maybe?

No. I reckon its fluff not dust, it will likely start coming out the joints and eye sockets if they get to energetic with WarHammering things.

Expect a special Knightly order of Vacuum SigMarines - from SPACE - to help the not Chaplin bony block to gather it and geneseed souls of the fallen...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 08, 2015, 09:17:34 AM
@ Vermis:

I'd love to see you tackle a small Dark Elf army! I am currently painting up a lot of Chris Fitzpatrick's sculpts (modern by your standards...), but the truth is that I've always had a soft spot for Dark Elves in general. That said, a lot of the troop models were rather wonky, so I hope that you, er, "fix" them a bit as you go. ;)


@ Nord:

I think you're being unfair. I for example have always been happy to complain about rubbish that other companies put out - just take a look at a lot of my comments of various Kickstarter efforts for a brief example.

I also find that most of my comments (even the constructive ones) are ignored. Whilst you can expect this with a massive company, it's disappointing to receive this treatment from very small companies who are actively looking for your custom. That seems to especially be the case when you gently try and ask for models that match the aesthetic offered, but which are in less "heroic" proportions; I already have loads of badly-proportioned GW models, and don't really need any more from other manufacturers.  :?

The problem is that the small games only really attract fans in the first place, and so the negative voices are rather drowned out or marginalised (more so than GW, who are big enough that the detractors are still enough in number to be heard).

There is also the different level of expectation of a company that has infinitely more means than it's competitors as Arlequín so rightly points out. You don't expect as much from three guys in a rented warehouse doing everything themselves as you do from a public company that employs hundreds and makes it's own plastic sprues. A great analogy of this is in the computer games industry; people heap praise on many ropey "Indy Games" that merely re-tread tired old ground, but loudly criticise triple-A releases from companies like EA. The price points in both cases also echo the the product pricing difference between GW and its competitors, which may also be another factor.


@ Arlequín:

I pretty much agree completely with all your recent comments here. In regards to changing WHFB: I think many players would have been happy with some unit consolidation, a polish of the rule mechanics and some rebalancing, an update on D6s to say D12s in order to re-introduce some variation without needing endless tables, and up-to-date plastic model options for all armies.

All of that was well within GW's scope of ability for some time, but they steadfastly refused to give their customers what they wanted. Instead they carried on messing about with trying to trick players out of money through the usual power-creep shenanigans and poor rules, and it was inevitable that players would just be driven from the game as a result.

Oddly enough, I don't think that the veteran fans of WHFB are so wrong in feeling like GW has given them the middle finger; GW senior command expects its customers to blindly lap up everything they put out and be grateful for it, and the long decline of WHFB is contrary to this expecation. Therefore AoS may be as much about as reinventing/reinvigorating an ailing game as it about the company somewhat actively divesting itself of those customers that it doesn't feel fit its requirements.

_________________________________________

I personally don't like what I've seen so far of AoS. I think the rules are pap, the Sigmarines are insipid at best, and the Warscrolls rules released for other armies are tediously droll and infantile.

However: GW have put out a well-made starter box, with technically accomplished models, at a reasonable price point. If I can find the Chaos models cheap enough on Ebay, I may be tempted by some of them to convert up for WHFB Chaos (as I still have a few slots that I never bought anything for because I hated the old models so much - plastic Marauders being a great example of hideous models that I refuse to buy).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on July 08, 2015, 09:36:17 AM
Has anyone else had a laugh that the Reaper Bones Kickstarter launched today includes...

Armour plated pallys?

I did. Well played Reaper, well played.*

Cheers
Matt

*not that I like the figures
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 08, 2015, 12:07:46 PM
Quote from: Nord on July 08, 2015, 08:33:02 AM
But words like "good" and "beloved" are purely subjective. You might not like them, but some will.

The thing is, GW revenues have been objectively dropping for the last couple of years. By all accounts WFB's sales had dropped far enough to relegate it to Specialist Games status if it wasn't revamped. (In fact, AoS is so different you could say WFB has died and this is a replacement more than revamp.) All the while, there were still plenty of people who thought GW make the absolute best wargaming products. The other view - disliking one or more aspects of what they do - may be subjective, but it's a subjective view that more and more people hold.

I was willing to give AoS the benefit of the doubt, but when the rules, especially those excruciating 'comedy' rules for older minis, dropped, I didn't think much of them. The fact that people here like them (gonna be honest, a single pro-AoS response on LAF means more to me than twenty pro-AoS responses on BoLS or Warseer, as biased as that is) especially people who didn't like the old rules, forces me to re-evaluate my stance; but I still have misgivings. In at least one way it feels like 40K and WFB rules, but more so: it feels like it's too much about the 'strategy', the listbuilding. Very basic rules where winning seems to depend a lot on what 'warscrolls' i.e. special rules and magic items, you can take. And you can take anything now! Unless the rumoured scenarios book limits that in a big way.

I may be wrong, but in any case I can't get too excited about AoS, even if it's free, in a world where something like Lion Rampant exists. I guess that reflects my own subjective views: I also didn't like the mass battle of WFB, a couple of simple tactics hiding behind a lot of special rules, compared to something like Mayhem or KoW, with simpler units but deeper mechanics. I have to admit, I'm still not decided about just how deep and tactical LR is, but the fact that you have to try and do what you can with simple, limited roster choices appeals more to me.

Quote
There are stacks of companies out there who roll out bad sculpts, poorly put together product, pricey rubbish that gain "ooh nice", "lovely" and so on. Nobody tells them that their product looked bad 20 years ago and it's never changed.

I think I did, a few pages ago. :)

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 08, 2015, 09:17:34 AM
(modern by your standards...)

See? :D

To be honest most of my fantasy collection consists of GW minis, but these days purchases are largely limited to what I can scrape off ebay for low prices. Like I said earlier, from a mass-battle army-building perspective, I think too much fantasy these days consists of well-sculpted (even over-sculpted) minis produced in tiny, expensive ranges, or relatively crude, '90's style ranges. And then there's the growing popularity of X-fantasy, which doesn't appeal to me too much either.
I can understand why all this occurs (characters vs. regiment blocks, time and effort spent sculpting vs. reward, etc.); though it's helping to convince me that 6-15mm is the true scale range for mass battles, where wibbles in sculpting, as with painting, are more forgivable and blend into the masses more easily.
I could go off at more people, on frothers-style speils, but it rarely feels good afterwards. Like people said, it's tougher to harangue a couple of guys working out if their garage. GW as the faceless corporation who shouldn't get so much wrong and never does anything so otiose as listen, is a more convenient scapegoat. I do prefer the more relaxed, friendly atmosphere on the LAF too, and just try my best to pass over things that rub me the wrong way. *coff*atlantisgoblins*coff* I also think the fact that a lot of those companies you mention only get a couple of random platypi... er, platitudes, before dropping down and off the board's first page, can speak volumes in itself.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 08, 2015, 09:17:34 AM
I'd love to see you tackle a small Dark Elf army! I am currently painting up a lot of Chris Fitzpatrick's sculpts , but the truth is that I've always had a soft spot for Dark Elves in general. That said, a lot of the troop models were rather wonky, so I hope that you, er, "fix" them a bit as you go. ;)

Ta! The older plastic DE warriors are a bit funky, on par with high elf spears and bows I think, but I'm fairly impressed with the latest dreadspear/dreadsword/darkshard set. Same as most of the current DE line. Depends if all the WFB refugees dump them for cheap or do the old ebay thing of declaring them OOP and rare. (I've seen one ebay seller say he priced his GW auctions high because he thought GW diddled him out of a lot of money with high prices and rules changes. Not us bidders' problem, squire!)
I think the only things I'd replace, if I took them at all, would be the dragon and hydra. (Nord, if you want to see me rant, strike up a discussion about Trish Carden. ;) ) I'd go for Julie Guthrie's old Grenadier Hydra (http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4989/hgianthydra.jpg) instead. Which goes to show that older sculpting isn't all bad. ;)

Quote
I also find that most of my comments (even the constructive ones) are ignored. Whilst you can expect this with a massive company, it's disappointing to receive this treatment from very small companies who are actively looking for your custom. That seems to especially be the case when you gently try and ask for models that match the aesthetic offered, but which are in less "heroic" proportions; I already have loads of badly-proportioned GW models, and don't really need any more from other manufacturers.  :?

Heh! Agreed!

Quote from: Constable Bertrand on July 08, 2015, 09:36:17 AM
Has anyone else had a laugh that the Reaper Bones Kickstarter launched today includes...

Armour plated pallys?

I did. Well played Reaper, well played.*

I don't know if it's intentional, but I wouldn't blame them one bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 08, 2015, 12:40:16 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 08, 2015, 09:17:34 AM
@ Arlequín:

Oddly enough, I don't think that the veteran fans of WHFB are so wrong in feeling like GW has given them the middle finger; GW senior command expects its customers to blindly lap up everything they put out and be grateful for it, and the long decline of WHFB is contrary to this expecation. Therefore AoS may be as much about as reinventing/reinvigorating an ailing game as it about the company somewhat actively divesting itself of those customers that it doesn't feel fit its requirements.

I think it did too... I notice that the 'humorous' rules are confined to 'Old Armies', so the 'You can use your existing armies' line has the addendum 'if you do not mind feeling and looking stupid in the process'.

It is very much a case of 'out with the old' and if you don't buy in 'who needs you?', to my mind at least. Things in stock might shift if there is a perceived sale value to them, but yes I think their presence will be fleeting. Long term fans can say "It's not about the money, money, money..." as the song goes (and indeed 'sale' comes first, 'truth' comes later!), but let's face it, they are a company and their primary concern is profit. You can argue about 'loyal customer base' and 'new target market' as much as you like, they opted for the latter and will thrive, wither or just plod on, on that basis.                          
                                                                                           -----

I read through the rules myself out of curiosity (and who knows, ideas come from the strangest places) and I was non-nonplussed. For the most part the only way you could get any more unsophisticated would be to start shooting matchsticks out of toy cannon, which at least has some skill involved. A step up in complexity would be H.G. Wells' advanced rules in 'Little Wars' in some cases actually.
;)

It's mainly a dice throwing exercise (so what's new?) and a UGO:IGO system in its most basic form... like Snakes and Ladders, with the 'Mysterious Landscapes' providing the snakes and ladders. Terrain is set by rolling dice... no scouting or tussle for each general to get the battlefield they want (nothing to say 'who' sets up the terrain either). 'Victory' goes in your favour if you had a starting force with a lot of models, it's last man standing, or a partial victory by just having lost a smaller percentage of your original army in terms of figures removed... there's an obvious flaw here to be exploited by 'hordes' players.

Basing doesn't matter... at least until you come to measure 'figure to figure' and find that your opponent has used a very big base to keep your troops at over 0.5" distance from the actual figure on it, so charges automatically fail. If they are within 3" of the figure they are 'locked down' however, so can only stand or retreat. Of course nobody would abuse that rule, right?

There is a good rule there all the same. The 'Sudden Death Victory' option allows an outnumbered player to win by completing a limited objective (great if you come up against the guy who has everything and intends putting it all on the table). The 'Triumph' one is fine if you play regular opponents, or trust that the stranger you're playing against actually did win his last game, wherever that was. How these will pan out after the 'Hero Phase' unleashes hell is anyone's guess.

Battleshock is quite good in principle. Medieval units fragmented bit by bit before collapsing, so this mimics that to a point. The only problem is that it is treated on a turn by turn basis, so there is no cumulative effect. So as long as you keep rolling well, you have no worries no matter what. It could work and most of the time will, but I imagine some units will be unbreakable until annihilated.

I am also all in favour of 'War Scrolls' (or unit profiles if you prefer), to provide a ready reference sheet in game, but other games do that too, so nothing new there.

Rules don't need to be complicated or lengthy to be good, but do need to offer a little more than 'roll a dice' (as most sections begin) for every aspect of the game. Even the dice rolls are not always final, as most rules offer the opportunity to re-roll one, some, or all of your bad ones.

In all there are one or two good bits I might be inclined to steal for my own use, but I can see a lot of people introducing a stack of house rules to clean up the game to their satisfaction... so there is no uniformity of play across The Hobby®.

That all being said, it is possible that the scenarios could make a huge difference and dispel all of the concerns about a lack of points. If a scenario limits the options available, then you have the balance that the points values fans are bemoaning. A basic set of scenarios is not necessarily boring and certainly not as boring as 'this is my half of the table, that is yours and we have X,000 points each' - which I gather is the normal 'scenario' for most games.
 
I suppose what you want out of your games is the most important factor though... and of course all rules are equally applicable to both players. I can see people having fun with these in a 'friendly group' or 'game partner' setting, somewhat less so if you're plagued by competitive types...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 08, 2015, 01:00:16 PM
Ok, I think it's safe to say that the guys at Mantic not only have a great sense of humor, but they win the internet today!

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/eaodak/Mantic_zpst6h9hpjk.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/eaodak/media/Mantic_zpst6h9hpjk.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 08, 2015, 01:12:10 PM
 lol ... you beat me to it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 08, 2015, 01:23:55 PM
And the statue matches their sculpting style.  lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 08, 2015, 02:14:48 PM
"Strike the FGM pose while rolling to hit and re-roll your lowest dice"... it was on a war scroll, I'm sure of it. Possibly one of the 'Age of Stigma' ones that cover the 'old factions'.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on July 08, 2015, 02:56:24 PM
I've now had a chance to play a game of AoS.... and long story short it was like playing with your Lego as a very young kid. You spend a few hours putting them together then spent 30mins smashing them together as they ''fight'' before your mum calls you for tea.

As joking aside you just line up and bash, it did remind me of SAGA without the Dice/Battleboard/Scenaro to keep it fresh and interesting.

It's not for me, I've now pre-ordered the new KoW2 Gamer Rulebook and while more simple then WhFB does quite  appeal to me, everything else fan I'll stick to WhFB3/RoC :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 08, 2015, 07:04:29 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on July 08, 2015, 01:12:10 PM
lol ... you beat me to it.

:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Steve F on July 08, 2015, 09:51:18 PM
Boy, I'm dim.  I only just worked out that "stormcast" wasn't some new resin replacing finecast.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 09, 2015, 02:43:54 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on July 07, 2015, 11:50:55 AM
Just to deviate from the serious conversation,I wonder what the ooruks will look like ?

I've got to ask - what're those, some kind of uruk-hai wannabes?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on July 09, 2015, 02:47:57 AM
Ordered and looking forward to release on the 11th.   ;D

Not so sure why folks are so centered on the rules. Rules are easily modified, rewritten or simply thrown in the bin. Pretty sure I could play a game without any rules and still have a good time... just making it up as I go.

I remember a long time ago when I found a box of plastic beaky Space Marines in my local hobby store... must have been close to 40 years now... I bought the minis because I really was struck by the look of the minis. The minis always come first for me and these minis look, at least to me, very cool and yes even unique.

Can't wait to get my hands on them.

Sorry for interrupting... please continue bashing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dijit on July 09, 2015, 06:31:40 AM
After having a game of Age of Sigmar now, i dont think the rules are all that bad. Yes, they're not super complex, or super tactical, but to be honest I prefer these over other staple fantasy rules like Song of Blades and Heroes. It isnt strick IgoUgo, like the old warhammer, but a hyrib of it and alternative activation. You move all your own troops, but the combat resolution is alternative, so you have to choose which units you want to fight first, giving a tactical element - can this unit afford to be attacked before I activate it or not?
Also, the whole thing of havibg very free army lists, and nothing to say you cant mix different armies, gives the feeling of playing Realms of Chaos - perhaps the highwater mark of WFB. Not too bad all in all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on July 09, 2015, 07:32:46 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 08, 2015, 08:49:22 AM
$250 for the starter if you are Southern Hemisphere.

I'm getting it from Black Cultist for AU$150 if that helps?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 09, 2015, 08:20:54 AM
Mightyape have it Tor $210, I'll be passing though and saving my money for other things. Thanks though. I'll look up that store. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 09, 2015, 09:41:44 AM
Quote from: Vermis on July 08, 2015, 12:07:46 PM
Ta! The older plastic DE warriors are a bit funky, on par with high elf spears and bows I think, but I'm fairly impressed with the latest dreadspear/dreadsword/darkshard set. Same as most of the current DE line.

I found nearly all the new plastic DE to my liking, except for the Hydra/Kharybdiss (which looks chunky and awkward).

The chariot looks better with two wheels in my eyes, though that's easy enough to do yourself.

The Darkshards have giant index fingers too, but that's mostly noticeable in photos (since on the table, the angle of viewing always hides that - even at close range!).

The Warlocks (and by extension, the armoured horses) were disappointing, but like the chariot they are an easy fix and still a cool enough unit. In general though, the Dark Riders are such a massive improvement over the 5E models that I'm willing to forgive them the armoured horses.

My greater sadness is that there were no new Shades (as I would have been happy to trade the £12 Fleetmaster model -which I liked- for a £12 box of 5nr Shades).

Anyway, the old plastics were truly awful, and the metals (Fitz's sculpts that I liked) had been transferred to Failcast. I therefore regard the new DE plastics as an all-round success (even despite a few niggles).

Quote from: Too Bo Coo on July 08, 2015, 01:00:16 PM
Ok, I think it's safe to say that the guys at Mantic not only have a great sense of humor, but they win the internet today!

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/eaodak/Mantic_zpst6h9hpjk.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/eaodak/media/Mantic_zpst6h9hpjk.jpg.html)

Aww, bless Mantic for making my morning!  lol


Quote from: Nord on July 08, 2015, 01:23:55 PM
And the statue matches their sculpting style.  lol lol
Quote from: Arlequín on July 08, 2015, 02:14:48 PM
"Strike the FGM pose while rolling to hit and re-roll your lowest dice"... it was on a war scroll, I'm sure of it. Possibly one of the 'Age of Stigma' ones that cover the 'old factions'.  ;)

Lol, I love you guys!  lol

Quote from: Ray Rivers on July 09, 2015, 02:47:57 AM
Not so sure why folks are so centered on the rules. Rules are easily modified, rewritten or simply thrown in the bin. Pretty sure I could play a game without any rules and still have a good time... just making it up as I go.

Because AoS is a game, not a box of models. And because AoS is a total departure from WHFB (and therefore, a total departure from the armies that many people have spent a huge amount of time, effort, and cost in creating).

Also, pretty sure I used to play miniature games with no rules when I was a young lad - "pew-pew!" etc. I confess that actually having rules though does make the game more fun when playing with others, and the models/modelling is just as much fun either way.

Quote from: Ray Rivers on July 09, 2015, 02:47:57 AM
Can't wait to get my hands on them.
[...]

Sorry for interrupting... please continue bashing.

You know, you are allowed to have an opinion without feeling you have to apologise!  o_o   lol

Quote from: FionaWhite on July 09, 2015, 02:43:54 AM
I've got to ask - what're those, some kind of uruk-hai wannabes?

Like Aelfs and Duardin, they are new GW IP-protected name for fantasy races that we've known for years! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 09, 2015, 11:12:55 AM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on July 09, 2015, 02:47:57 AM
Not so sure why folks are so centered on the rules. Rules are easily modified, rewritten or simply thrown in the bin. Pretty sure I could play a game without any rules and still have a good time... just making it up as I go.

Sure, but the 'GW Hobby' relies on the fact that you should be able to pick up your figures, take them anywhere in the world and sit down and play with someone else - who is using exactly the same set of rules... and is probably exploiting the same loopholes, min/maxing of his army and other skullduggery, in the same way as you are.

If you don't buy into that, then sure there is nothing forcing you to use them, or from changing them, or even binning them.

I do see a fair bit of pessimism over them though, which ranges from 'glass half-empty' to 'someone stole my glass'... I suspect that once it comes out things won't appear so bad. The scenarios which will balance forces off against each other have yet to be revealed and they 'should' make all the difference to the current weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.
;) 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: redeaston on July 09, 2015, 11:16:52 AM
My 10 year old son loves AOS and I suspect that that’s the sort of person they are aiming for. He played a quick game in store and got the free mini on white dwarf. As soon as we got home he built it, painted it and then made up his own scenario with him against some plague bearers trying to get to a warp gate thingy. He is saving up his pocket money to buy the starter as soon as he can afford it.

Personally I think the rules are OK. They needed to do something and it certainly reduces the cost (and time) of picking the game up. Rules are free and a couple of boxes of figures will set you up. I can see my son and me playing this quite a bit as we can fit in quick games after tea but before bed etc. I am heading toward KOW for larger battles though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 09, 2015, 11:24:47 AM
Quote from: redeaston on July 09, 2015, 11:16:52 AM
My 10 year old son loves AOS and I suspect that that’s the sort of person they are aiming for. He played a quick game in store and got the free mini on white dwarf. As soon as we got home he built it, painted it and then made up his own scenario with him against some plague bearers trying to get to a warp gate thingy. He is saving up his pocket money to buy the starter as soon as he can afford it.

Personally I think the rules are OK. They needed to do something and it certainly reduces the cost (and time) of picking the game up. Rules are free and a couple of boxes of figures will set you up. I can see my son and me playing this quite a bit as we can fit in quick games after tea but before bed etc. I am heading toward KOW for larger battles though.


Well said  :)

Think you pretty much nailed the demographic and target customer - new - 10 years + age, with your wallet...

Glad your both enjoying it, and hope you continue to get your money's worth from it.

I will return to my normal grumpy self shortly  :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 09, 2015, 11:38:56 AM
Quote from: redeaston on July 09, 2015, 11:16:52 AM
They needed to do something and it certainly reduces the cost (and time) of picking the game up. Rules are free and a couple of boxes of figures will set you up.

That will set you up to play a skirmish game, which you can game cheaply anyway. A box of Perry plastics, a Lion Rampant rulebook - £30 and you can make two forces from it.

Low cost new system is a complete myth. While the starter set is cheap and good value, the usual prices apply to any additions you might want to make. Prices for next weeks releases are doing the rounds - £20 for a hero, £30 for a box of 5 terminators liberators, £45 for a book, £25 for a dice shaker. Your son must get massive amounts of pocket money if you think that is cheap.

I wish you many happy hours of gaming with your kid(s), but really, GW is not a cheap way to do it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: redeaston on July 09, 2015, 12:03:17 PM
I agree that there are much cheaper ways of doing it.

However he can go down to the shop to play pickup games, some of his friends have some GW stuff (he already has some brets and I have a load of old stuff), he enjoys the story line and the way the figures look. With online discounts the starter is less than £60 and gives him a load of stuff to be going on with. I know the new stuff won’t be on ebay/trade groups straight away but they will be fairly soon which makes things cheaper going forward. I think it compares well to most other hobbies e.g. he would rather have a box of figures than a new computer game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 09, 2015, 12:32:15 PM
Quote from: redeaston on July 09, 2015, 12:03:17 PM
I think it compares well to most other hobbies e.g. he would rather have a box of figures than a new computer game.

Um, get onto Steam or GOG for example, and you can have lot of games for £60!  :o

Still, pick-up games at the shop is the exact reason GW stores exist in the first place! Can't blame anyone for wanting that ease of finding a game really. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 09, 2015, 08:21:25 PM
Quote from: Nord on July 09, 2015, 11:38:56 AM
I wish you many happy hours of gaming with your kid(s), but really, GW is not a cheap way to do it.

It never has been really and kids being kids look at the price tag last, if they look at all. If his friends are into GW and the shop is welcoming, then LR won't even make the radar... granted that it is the better game of the two.

I know things are different in most clubs now, but when I first started at the local club I was consigned into a separate room with the D&Drs and fantasy gamers without even being asked what I was into... and that's Pre-mass GW.

If I'd had lads instead of girls, I would have preferred blowing £60 on AoS and have him mixing with other kids, rather than holed up in his room on a console/PC... it would give me more time on it!
 ;)   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 09, 2015, 09:33:47 PM
I''m actually excited to get the box, but m not going to rush out and get it, i'm gonna save and treat myself in a little while .

Even so, this sentence makes me laugh more and more each time i read it.
(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/bloodsecrator_zpsqkys8inl.jpg)

Do you think this is how people responded when shakespear made up words? with sort of confusion despite kind of knowing what he meant, but over time they just got used to it and gave up trying not to use them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 09, 2015, 10:45:23 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 09, 2015, 09:33:47 PM
Do you think this is how people responded when shakespear made up words? with sort of confusion despite kind of knowing what he meant, but over time they just got used to it and gave up trying not to use them.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on July 09, 2015, 10:52:37 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 09, 2015, 09:33:47 PM
Do you think this is how people responded when shakespear made up words? with sort of confusion despite kind of knowing what he meant, but over time they just got used to it and gave up trying not to use them.

I think that applies to having a conversation with anyone from the marketing department at work.
They speak in a combination of riddles, made up words and bullshit most of the time too.
 o_o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on July 09, 2015, 10:53:53 PM
Honey, did you see where I left the portal of skulls? I'm going out to see Jeff and Garry.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on July 09, 2015, 11:23:03 PM
Quote from: Mason on July 09, 2015, 10:52:37 PM
I think that applies to having a conversation with anyone from the marketing department at work.
They speak in a combination of riddles, made up words and bullshit most of the time too.
 o_o



+ If you live in France or Italy they had a thousand words in English instead of the proper words.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on July 10, 2015, 08:59:00 AM
Tbh the figures are growing on me, I got to see them in the flesh and I actually kind of liked them a lot more after that. I'm interested in seeing the fluff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 10, 2015, 09:21:44 AM
Quote from: Mason on July 09, 2015, 10:52:37 PM
I think that applies to having a conversation with anyone from the marketing department at work.
They speak in a combination of riddles, made up words and bullshit most of the time too.
 o_o



The Father of modern Marketing and Advertising was one Edward Bernays (no relation tot he sauce), who was a principle actor in the Wilson Administration's 'Creel Commission' that was responsible for creating propaganda to get the US into WWI.  His book after his time with Creel?  Propaganda.  Draw what conclusions you will....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on July 10, 2015, 10:19:01 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on July 10, 2015, 09:21:44 AM
The Father of modern Marketing and Advertising was one Edward Bernays (no relation tot he sauce), who was a principle actor in the Wilson Administration's 'Creel Commission' that was responsible for creating propaganda to get the US into WWI.  His book after his time with Creel?  Propaganda.  Draw what conclusions you will....

That book was more or less observations on Propaganda. The science behind propaganda came of age near the end of WW2 when Governments and Armies actually began to make in depth studies of the effects of propaganda. None of which has ever been conclusive. Propaganda has only ever been noted as successful if the consumer already believes in the message it is attempting to convey.

Therefore in the case of AoS marketing I'd say its probably too early to say if its been successful. That said if gamers are anything to go buy, they'll flock to it after a good dose of criticism.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 10, 2015, 12:13:41 PM
Heh, that reminds me of someone's signature over on the B&C forums:

"Epidemus, who, at the battle against Khorne, did righteously shift paradigms with the creation of a goal-oriented task force that successfully reallocated Khornate resources into Nurgle-driven benefits capable of sustaining them through the next fiscal quarter."

Makes me smile every time I see it!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 10, 2015, 04:17:38 PM
A new outing for a favourite:

http://captiongenerator.com/48861/Age-of-Sigmar-interview (http://captiongenerator.com/48861/Age-of-Sigmar-interview)

Not seen a Downfall video for it yet  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 10, 2015, 05:48:13 PM
Here you go... (http://captiongenerator.com/48463/Hitler-reacts-to-Age-of-Sigmar)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on July 10, 2015, 06:15:26 PM
Quote
Here you go...

You know, this sounds bad, but I mostly agree with Hitler....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 10, 2015, 07:58:06 PM
It might be the fever talking but those 2 videos are the most Warhammer-related fun I've ever had.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 09, 2015, 09:41:44 AM
Like Aelfs and Duardin, they are new GW IP-protected name for fantasy races that we've known for years! ;)

Guess I should've known when "Aelf" came up...  :D

Looking forward to see what kind of a DLC-ridden mess Warhammer: Total War will be.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 10, 2015, 08:19:21 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on July 10, 2015, 07:58:06 PM
It might be the fever talking but those 2 videos are the most Warhammer-related fun I've ever had.

My stomach hurts from laughing so hard.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 10, 2015, 08:30:22 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on July 10, 2015, 07:58:06 PM
It might be the fever talking but those 2 videos are the most Warhammer-related fun I've ever had.

Guess I should've known when "Aelf" came up...  :D

Looking forward to see what kind of a DLC-ridden mess Warhammer: Total War will be.
Hmmm I hope the good modern out there stay true to the old world and don't make it age of Sigmar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 10, 2015, 08:59:10 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on July 10, 2015, 04:17:38 PM
A new outing for a favourite:

http://captiongenerator.com/48861/Age-of-Sigmar-interview (http://captiongenerator.com/48861/Age-of-Sigmar-interview)

Not seen a Downfall video for it yet  :D

This is possibly the funniest video I've seen for a long time!  lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on July 10, 2015, 11:25:13 PM
lol lol lol

What a way to start my Saturday, thanks guys! :D hahahhaaha. 'No one even plays with points anymore' hahahahah.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 11, 2015, 04:29:59 PM
Age of sigmar book released. As far as i can tell it contains the rules,scenarios, fiction and ,according to the website ,the first set of campaign scenarios for the new advancing setting, which seems to suggest the lore is going to advance as the books do similar to the end times books.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 11, 2015, 05:27:27 PM
Bought the box set today  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 11, 2015, 06:09:10 PM
If anyone has the book, can I ask a specific question? I've seen people talk about the benefit of shooting into combat, but there's nothing about it in the four-page pdf. Not  'do' or 'don't' or anything in between. What's the book say on the matter?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on July 12, 2015, 12:19:00 PM
At first I thought, no this isn't for me, but I'm actually really liking the figures now, I think with a few alterations conversions etc i could find myself buying the starter set, the sigmarines would make great statues for frostgrave too........
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 12, 2015, 12:38:20 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 11, 2015, 06:09:10 PM
If anyone has the book, can I ask a specific question? I've seen people talk about the benefit of shooting into combat, but there's nothing about it in the four-page pdf. Not  'do' or 'don't' or anything in between. What's the book say on the matter?
Sorry not looked ,I had parents round yesterday,ive it even opened it ,I'm thinking of putting it back for one of sons Christmas presents,and getting my own now, lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on July 12, 2015, 04:39:21 PM
I think the Age of Sigmar marks a significant departure from the past for GW and a good one at that.

Mind you if you look at individual box sets and hero figures they seem quite expensive. The rank and file will cost you around 10 Euros a figure... pretty much on a par with Infinity minis.

If, however, you use the starter set as your base, you can add an additional box set or 2 plus a hero and the average mini will cost you around 4 euros.

The starter set is your "army builder" at 2,13 Euros per mini. If you want a larger army you start there and use the extra weapons from the box sets to give you some variety.

In terms of cost, I think when folks start to analyze how they can build "armies" in the Age of Sigmar, they will find them significantly cheaper than Warhammer.

Cheers!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on July 13, 2015, 10:05:52 AM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on July 12, 2015, 04:39:21 PM
The rank and file will cost you around 10 Euros a figure... pretty much on a par with Infinity minis.

The starter set is your "army builder" at 2,13 Euros per mini. If you want a larger army you start there and use the extra weapons from the box sets to give you some variety.

Except that Infinity minis are pretty much all character models, and you don't need many of them for a game.

Also, the 'starter set as army builder' idea only works if you want those two armies.

The Lord Celestant figure is 20 quid... are you seriously saying you think GW have made Fantasy cheaper with the AoS release?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 13, 2015, 12:04:31 PM
Quote from: Lovejoy on July 13, 2015, 10:05:52 AM
Except that Infinity minis are pretty much all character models, and you don't need many of them for a game.

Also, the 'starter set as army builder' idea only works if you want those two armies.

The Lord Celestant figure is 20 quid... are you seriously saying you think GW have made Fantasy cheaper with the AoS release?

I was working this out the other day because i saw the prices of the new figures and felt my insides clench like a knight fighting a slaaneshi champion.
What kept me out of fantasy wasn't that the troops were too costly in themselves, but that you needed SO BLOODY MAN OF THEM!! i once worked out that t have a small empire army, i'd need to drop £200 on the minis alone,and it'd still be nowhere near the 1500 points id need to play most games.

The stormcast eternals are pricey,no doubt, but you don't need as many of them, no where near as many! I could play a game and spend £50 on the 5 troops and comander, then splash out on a couple of boxes of lesser troops (say empire ,if they're stil around) and convert/buy some lesser heros like priests of sigmar ect. I would probably end up spending around £100.
It's not cheap, no where NEAR cheap, but as a way of getting a playable army together, it is cheaper than old fantasy.

I think AoS is really beyond comparison to fantasy, because the two systems are so different! the stormscast kit is more like a terminator kit for marines than it is rank and file troops, and despite what the pictures in the books tell us, i think you're gonna be playing very small armies of them.


On a side note, the eternals have the same basic stats as chaos warriors, which makes me wonder if we'll be seeing new even chunkier chaos warrior kits coming out soon to match them in size and unit structure.the commander matches pretty closely to the chaos lord aswell , so i have a feeling these guys are meant to be our big powerful human soldiers and we will be seeing some lesser troops to go alongside them, like cultists of sigmar. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on July 13, 2015, 01:12:00 PM
Quote from: Lovejoy on July 13, 2015, 10:05:52 AM
Except that Infinity minis are pretty much all character models, and you don't need many of them for a game.

Also, the 'starter set as army builder' idea only works if you want those two armies.

The Lord Celestant figure is 20 quid... are you seriously saying you think GW have made Fantasy cheaper with the AoS release?

The Infinity minis are incredibly tiny... and putting some of them together can be a huge pain in the arse. They are quite expensive (minimum of 10 Euros each) as well, so if you want to throw money at them... your choice. Having said that, even Infinity uses the starter sets as the basic gateway into their gaming world.

And yes, I am serious in saying that GW has made Fantasy cheaper and the starter box set (soon to be sets I´m sure) is the foundation. If you don't like one of the AoS armies in the box, I am sure you will be able to sell them for at least a break even price on Ebay, though I think most folks will just swap forces at their local shop.

When you understand that the heart of the system is the starter box, then adding a hero means that you will still have paid less than 4 Euros per mini.

In my world, that is cheap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 13, 2015, 05:07:20 PM
I think in "Cheaper" based on the reduction in required number of miniatures, then yes, to actually setup for a battle, they have in effect made it cheaper.

Cheaper overall to play this game currently than previous WFB (RIP).

Removing some of the unit size creap into the inifinite at least.

Overall, and overtime, I suspect  creep will be introduced as per normal - after all The sigmarines are basically 5 man sets at 30 squids a hit, after the starter box - so 6 pounds each for large plastic not marine.

Which is cheap compared to 20 squids for  character models - current pricing.

The startbox is definitely cheaper troop wise than both the above.

But this will soon no doubt be reflected by other miniature troop types - and fully expect Sigmar's mortal followers to be similarly priced and packed - 5 for 30, and those of course will be suitably human in size compared to the sigmarines.

I understand that materials don't greatly affect the cost - size not strickly being relevant in that, but to the eye of the gamer - tiny men for that price compared to BIG men, well we all know size apparently matters.

Yes overall the start set here is good value, as always as its meant to draw players in. It will continue to be, but future limited edition box sets ( GW have outlined before that plan for 40k - short term  availability sets, regularly replaced by new ones - no reason not to do the same with  AoS). Expect those sets to more accurately reflect normal GW pricing.

There's already another set thats going for 120 squids (GBP) so basically 6 squids each. So.

As always relatively speaking the start boxes are good value compared to others.

Its the constant gradual creep that is not. Regardless the hobby overall of course is not a cheap one as such.

Bearing in mind the expected price creep, I am not overly tempted, and I already have enough other spacemarines. I just can't help seeing them as just that - alternative spacemarines.

I have my other armies, and still might be tempted to grab it just to add it to the collection of Boxed sets, but I don't see me expanding that army much directly from GW - ebay seconds eventually maybe, but thats about it.

Still - you are correct - its the cheap starter set from GW.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 13, 2015, 07:18:18 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 08, 2015, 12:07:46 PM
The older plastic DE warriors are a bit funky, on par with high elf spears and bows I think, but I'm fairly impressed with the latest dreadspear/dreadsword/darkshard set. Same as most of the current DE line. Depends if all the WFB refugees dump them for cheap or do the old ebay thing of declaring them OOP and rare.

Y'know what, whenever GW makes a boneheaded move, plenty of people talk about selling their armies; but to be honest I've never really noticed a corresponding jump in ebay listings, cheap or expensive. Especially now, when I'm really looking and waiting. :? DE players, at least, are hanging onto their dreadspears.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 13, 2015, 08:42:57 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 13, 2015, 07:18:18 PM
Y'know what, whenever GW makes a boneheaded move, plenty of people talk about selling their armies; but to be honest I've never really noticed a corresponding jump in ebay listings, cheap or expensive. Especially now, when I'm really looking and waiting. :? DE players, at least, are hanging onto their dreadspears.

Agreed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 13, 2015, 09:29:17 PM
I guess in the end, if you like it enough to pay the asking price, then it isn't too expensive.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 13, 2015, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 13, 2015, 07:18:18 PM
DE players, at least, are hanging onto their dreadspears.

I think the effort involved in building and painting forty-plus of the ugly bastards for a single unit is enough of a torture to make folks reluctant to replace them in a hurry...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on July 14, 2015, 01:51:35 PM
Besides why sell now at the worst possible time?
Also 8ed is not going anywhere and you can use you models for kings of war or any other generic wargame.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on July 14, 2015, 03:11:57 PM
I have to admit I bought the lord celestine mounted figure the other day, I am converting him to be an inquisitor in true scale (possibly) marine armour and having the mount as some kind of lizard creature from the Catachan jungle world.

It was the ONLY model that I really liked from the ste and did not want to buy the full thing so went to ebay to buy him seperately at quite a good price....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 14, 2015, 05:57:17 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on July 14, 2015, 03:11:57 PM
I have to admit I bought the lord celestine mounted figure the other day, I am converting him to be an inquisitor in true scale (possibly) marine armour and having the mount as some kind of lizard creature from the Catachan jungle world.

It was the ONLY model that I really liked from the ste and did not want to buy the full thing so went to ebay to buy him seperately at quite a good price....
It's quite an eye catching centrepiece .
I must admit from the pics ive seen on the web,I'm tempted to do some sci fi Knights with them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: P_Clapham on July 14, 2015, 10:28:30 PM
I'm wondering if any Fantasy players will try out War of the Ring.  I'm honestly surprised GW didn't use that as the base rules for Age of Sigmar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on July 14, 2015, 11:07:18 PM
Quote from: P_Clapham on July 14, 2015, 10:28:30 PM
I'm wondering if any Fantasy players will try out War of the Ring.  I'm honestly surprised GW didn't use that as the base rules for Age of Sigmar.

+1 my preferred fantasy set. Simple to learn and fun. Just needs a reigning in of charactrs (one per full 1000 points).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 15, 2015, 02:00:07 AM
So it seems that in the fluff slaanesh has been captured and bound by the elves (which he/she would probably enjoy...) and the great horned rat of the skaven has taken his seat in the chaos pantheon, with his millions of chattering followers multiplying and increasing his strength.

And you know what? I'm okay with this.
The skaven are cool, and i think they mix a bit of all the 4 gods together, sort of jack of all trades god that seeks to usurp all the others , which i think fits the idea of skaven culture and the idea of the chaos gods.
On top of that, as much as i like slaanesh, i do get the feeling that GW just didn't know what to do with it.As much as i'd love to see it properly fleshed out int he fiction, with a proper 18+ rating and all kinds of horror , on the tabletop it was hard to get across how slaanesh worked as a force, It's such a psychological thing that it worked better small scale, like in dark heresy roleplaying or something.
I will say that it does seem odd not to have mans lustfull nature represented in the pantheon of chaos, but i think the horned rat kind of has that covered , since it only seeks to control, to own, to do everything to satisfy itself regardless of all others.
 plus no offence to people who put alot of effort in, but i was getting a bit tired of people sticking a barbie doll on a defiler and giving it tentacle genitals
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 15, 2015, 03:14:27 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 15, 2015, 02:00:07 AM

 plus no offence to people who put alot of effort in, but i was getting a bit tired of people sticking a barbie doll on a defiler and giving it tentacle genitals

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 15, 2015, 04:28:55 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 15, 2015, 03:14:27 AM
lol

You laugh, but the last time i went to a gw store for a pick up game ,the guy i was playing against was running a slaanesh demon army.
His army consisted of...
1 dr who spider woman model,unconverted or painted.
3 nude anime models,unconverted or painted.
a bunch of random female action figures with green stuff "claws" (mittens.)
a handfull of marines that he proxied as noise marines.
a toy soldier tank that he used a a rhino.

He spent the entire game pointing out how his army was super sexual.I didn't find it offensive, i found it juvenile ,and I think that's the other reason gw want to push slaanesh into the back seat,not because kids might be subjected to dangerous nipples, but because all too often slaanesh gets picked up by "that guy" who uses it as a way to act like a 13 year old during sex ed.

(if you play slaanesh, then AWESOME! i think it has great potential to make good thematic armies,and i am sure the majorty of all players are civil and cool guys, but for some reason all i ever seem to see of the god of greed,pleasure and excess is "lol nipples and sex lolololol" and yeah, it's boring. )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on July 15, 2015, 08:20:25 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on July 14, 2015, 05:57:17 PM
It's quite an eye catching centrepiece .
I must admit from the pics ive seen on the web,I'm tempted to do some sci fi Knights with them.

I do believe for sci fi knights they would be perfect.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 15, 2015, 08:56:41 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 15, 2015, 04:28:55 AM
You laugh, but the last time i went to a gw store for a pick up game ,the guy i was playing against was running a slaanesh demon army.

[...]


Seems like you encountered "That Guy" rather than someone who was merely enjoying the Slaaneshi theme in a puerile way. I'll bet he's the type that'd manage to spoil anything he turned his hand to for the sake of getting attention...   ::)

And to be fair, most of the Slaaneshi and Tzeentch armies I see online seem to have rather a lot of effort put into them (especially compared to the much more common lazy efforts made for Khorne and Nurgle armies).

Of course, any army can be made with care and effort or not, and that's entirely up to each person to decide for themselves. If you don't like those people/armies/efforts, then I'd suggest the old advice of simply not playing them. Seems a shame though to kill off a theme and story hook just because some people struggle socially.

Models-wise, regardless of whether or not one may like AoS, they are as technically good as usual from GW. I personally find most of them not to my taste (especially the Sigmarines), and feel that a good few of them are too wonky-looking or lack a proper focal point. That said, I do like the look of some of the Chaos models, and I think I can convert them into WHFB well enough. I'll likely just get the ones I'm interested in from Ebay and then happily chop 'em up!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 15, 2015, 09:28:32 AM
Does anyone think Slaanesh just turned to it's followers sometimes and said, "Why don't we just cuddle any more?"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 15, 2015, 11:15:02 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 15, 2015, 04:28:55 AM
He spent the entire game pointing out how his army was super sexual.I didn't find it offensive, i found it juvenile ,and I think that's the other reason gw want to push slaanesh into the back seat,not because kids might be subjected to dangerous nipples, but because all too often slaanesh gets picked up by "that guy" who uses it as a way to act like a 13 year old during sex ed.


As compared with the shop full of sophisticated gamers, screaming "Waaaaargh" or shouting "Skulls for the Skull God"? Isn't practically everybody in a GW shop (and arguably any gaming scenario from an outside point of view) "that guy"?

It's strange how Slaanesh gets a lot of flak because of the sex thing, particularly in the current age of overt sexual images all over the web/TV/posters, you would think people would become immune to it. It's still somehow offensive that a one inch tall toy has a tiny nipple on show. But skulls, massive weapons, killing and maiming, that's all okay. Dark Elves and skaven are quite partial to capturing prisoners to torture, experiment on them, or work them to death as slaves, but hey we are all cool with that. The way one thing is latched on to, while others with far more serious real world counterparts are just ignored, that's the thing that baffles me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on July 15, 2015, 11:44:37 AM
It makes sense now - http://paintbrushandsuperglue.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/the-age-of-sigmar-explained.html  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duke Donald on July 15, 2015, 12:15:22 PM
Quote
It makes sense now - http://paintbrushandsuperglue.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/the-age-of-sigmar-explained.html  Cheesy
That's witty, and much better written and evocative than anything I've seen produced by GW for a quite a while!

Quote
The way one thing is latched on to, while others with far more serious real world counterparts are just ignored, that's the thing that baffles me.
I fully agree; I also find it puzzling that tiny bits of exposed (living) flesh seem more shocking to many gamers than piles of mangled corpses.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Almost Fearless on July 15, 2015, 01:16:34 PM
Quote from: zemjw on July 15, 2015, 11:44:37 AM
It makes sense now - http://paintbrushandsuperglue.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/the-age-of-sigmar-explained.html  :D
Quote from: Duke Donald on July 15, 2015, 12:15:22 PM
That's witty, and much better written and evocative than anything I've seen produced by GW for a quite a while!

I'm the author of that blog, so thank you very much!  :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 15, 2015, 02:09:01 PM
@ Almost Fearless:

Well I enjoyed it enough that I hope you write a little more!  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 15, 2015, 02:15:29 PM
I heartily second that!

Very well donediscripition/explanation of AoS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Almost Fearless on July 15, 2015, 02:52:15 PM
I'm blushing now. Thanks! :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 15, 2015, 03:28:53 PM
"He wandered out of the college and onto the streets of Altdorf. The imperial capital was as busy as ever. Men, elves, dwarfs and halflings could all be seen going about their business. Market traders plied their wares from various stalls - spices from Cathay, cured meats from Tilea, Bretonnian wines, all were available in this street alone. The smell of the sea wafted from the nearby harbour, where a dwarf vessel, propelled by some arcane machinery, was slowly coming into dock."

Fantastic. This bit just made all my fondness for the Old World flow back into my mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Almost Fearless on July 15, 2015, 03:44:01 PM
Thank you. There's so much I could have added there too. It's such a rich world, that the decision to do away with it seems perverse.

Weird thing is, I haven't actually played anything fantasy related in a couple of years. But breaking the world has suddenly made me very protective of it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on July 15, 2015, 03:50:57 PM
You only know how much you love something when you lose it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 15, 2015, 03:55:11 PM
What we can be greatful for is really we have not lost it.

GW have.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 15, 2015, 04:35:50 PM
Well said. The Old World isn't going anywhere for those of us who love it. Even if all of GW's figures for the Old World vanish, there are plenty of alternatives that fit the bill out there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 15, 2015, 06:22:25 PM
On the slaanesh thing, I think we can all agree that the Age of sigmar rules for them are borked anyway. I mean the lord of slaanesh gets a bonus if you make eye-contact with the opponent. Now I would stipulate that any good slaanesh player, male or female, should have his private parts dangling out to such a degree that eye contact is exceedingly unlikely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on July 15, 2015, 08:03:14 PM
What, the eye contact with private parts dangling or Age of Sigmar?  lol

I am/was mainly into fantasy for the setting and the Perry Brettonian miniatures. It mostly lost appeal when the rough edges were ground off the setting and they did the (in my eyes) atrocious "new" Brettonian plastics. I'm am going to adopt the Almost Fearless Theorem from now on, as no amount of sculpting little stuffed animals on top the Sigmarines helmets will bring my beloved wine-swilling, frog-eating grail-questers back.
It's amazing how GW has managed to swell the ranks of Oldhammerers with this release.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 15, 2015, 08:32:25 PM
I'd always had hopes of them bringing back kislevites or introducing new armies from the old fluff such as Cathay etc. oh well, guess not.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on July 15, 2015, 08:36:52 PM
Oh, absolutely, they had so much interesting parts of the world they left unexplored.  :(
Guess we'll have to colour in the blanks in the map ourselves now. In a way GW gave the Old World to us now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 15, 2015, 09:53:24 PM
And don't forget Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay + expansions. The originals have been reprinted by Hogshead so should be affordable ( sort of... ). Plenty of backgrounds and story lines for new games and settings.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on July 15, 2015, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: Modhail on July 15, 2015, 08:03:14 PM
I am/was mainly into fantasy for the setting and the Perry Brettonian miniatures. It mostly lost appeal when the rough edges were ground off the setting and they did the (in my eyes) atrocious "new" Brettonian plastics. I'm am going to adopt the Almost Fearless Theorem from now on, as no amount of sculpting little stuffed animals on top the Sigmarines helmets will bring my beloved wine-swilling, frog-eating grail-questers back.
It's amazing how GW has managed to swell the ranks of Oldhammerers with this release.  ;D

Here here!! (Though the new plastic knights weren't too bad, and I liked the over burdened questing knights) The round table of bretonnia forum is in a bit of a flap, divided between switching to mantic, creating their own fluff, or waiting for the next update from GW while playing AoS.

I'm more in the camp of buy Perry plastics and enjoy the painting, then play Pulp Alley instead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 16, 2015, 12:42:18 AM
I picked up this weeks white dwarf and the gates of azyr novel.
Half way through and you know what, it's not bad.In terms of writing it's what you'd expect from a starter set companion novel (remember the assault on black reach novel,jesus!) There are mortal humans left in the realms , fighting, living their lives, doing what they do, but the majority of the realms have been over run by chaos and are now beginning to be pushed back by sigmar.

The eternals themselves aren't as immortal/invulnerable as we've been told by the little captions so far,they can die from a few well placed strikes, they can only be resurrected by the crypt lord according to the fluff,if they die fully before he can help them then they're gone.
Also, they do seem to have personality and memory of who they were before sigmar plucked them out of their realms to become sigmarines, which i think is good since it allows you to actually feel invested in the conflicts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 16, 2015, 11:10:07 AM
Thats some progress in definition and movement, from eternal unending same people !WAR!

So they do get away from "The Sigmarines Dead, Jim, but not as we know it - he will see you at the next battle" kind of thing. Althought it sounds like they will get through an awful lot of heroes that way.

Still - for those who come into wargaming via this route its going to sort of be their WFB, so hope they enjoy it.

And the rest of us get some fun out of it ( oh yeah I am - sort of - here -  I might even buy some of it eventually and play it)

But - its still a shame nearly thirty years - burned. well for the moment - I mean, the BBC brought Doctor Who back.... So maybe if there's money in it enough, and desperation enough.. Limited Edition boxed set anyone?

Maybe tis just me but shoving it towards rules similar to LoTR would have made more sense, with a big push of new characters, or even back towards the evil "generic" fantasy of make up your own hero.

Ah well, bet thats been well chewed up in other forums so won't bother with it, theres now KoWs the 2nd to milk, and plenty of other things to play and paint.

Quote from: Scurv on July 15, 2015, 06:56:56 PM
its $200 here!  ::)


For a tentical tickle ? wow - if thats how much that kind of game play costs, no wonder GW stuff is expensive
 there - they must think your all loaded....
 With lots of Money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on July 16, 2015, 12:16:17 PM
Got my Box!

 :-* :o o_o :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 16, 2015, 03:21:48 PM
The local independent model shops got 2 left ,I nearly got my wallet out,still tempted to get one and either 40k it or do sci fi Knights ,which is basically same thing  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 17, 2015, 02:38:48 PM
Blimey, it's made the front page of The Guardian now...

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/17/warhammer-beginners-guide-games-workshop-age-of-sigmar (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/17/warhammer-beginners-guide-games-workshop-age-of-sigmar)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 17, 2015, 03:08:33 PM
Must've been a slow day.

I like how they show a pic of space marines with the caption 'a customer plays a game of warhammer...' Yeah, probably because the writer might not make much of a distinction between the names 'Warhammer (Fantasy Battle)' and 'Warhammer 40,000', but I like to think it's because they can't make a distinction between ultramarines and sigmarines.  :D

Surprised to see they gave mention to a few other game companies, too!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 17, 2015, 03:43:19 PM
The article still sounds like a sponsored advert; I kept looking for the "advertisement" ribbon (it's quite common these days for adverts to be placed with the news with only a small line marked "advertisement" to note this. I expect better from the Guardian, but even reputable papers are doing it these days...).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on July 17, 2015, 04:33:45 PM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_F5GxCwizc
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 17, 2015, 11:19:35 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Combat-Gauge

 lol lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on July 17, 2015, 11:38:18 PM
Quote from: Gibby on July 17, 2015, 11:19:35 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Combat-Gauge

 lol lol lol lol

Er...  :o

Only £20 for a trinket?

"No more tape measures!"... Are they going to make a larger version to measure moves? And how about shooting (if that is still allowed)?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on July 17, 2015, 11:45:16 PM
Considering the new rules, it really should double as a bottle opener.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 18, 2015, 12:08:32 AM
Quote from: Gibby on July 17, 2015, 11:19:35 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Combat-Gauge

 lol lol lol lol

Sadly i was tempted by this until i saw the price.
£5 for a shiny trinket? go for it. £20? no thanks!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 18, 2015, 12:16:27 AM
At £5 it's a useful and stylish trinket to makes getting in between those melees a bit easier. At £20 it's... well, see my original response to it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 18, 2015, 12:20:05 AM
Quote from: Gibby on July 18, 2015, 12:16:27 AM
At £5 it's a useful and stylish trinket to makes getting in between those melees a bit easier. At £20 it's... well, see my original response to it.

If i could borrow one from a friend i could take it to uni, cast it up and get it recast in bronze! With a big enough mould i could actually hand cast these from molten bronze and make them CHEAPER than this gw one!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 18, 2015, 12:34:08 AM
The description states:

Quote
The Combat Gauge comes on a thick cord, with magnetic clasps, and can be worn away from the gaming table as a unique accessory.

Yep, I'll be doing that  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 18, 2015, 02:08:35 AM
Quote from: Scurv on July 18, 2015, 01:34:18 AM
Its a magic talisman of girl repelling
+7
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 18, 2015, 07:58:31 AM
I expect better from you lot - your not even trying hard to take the pee out of this mine of entertainment, granted they don't make it difficult but, come on - some quality entertainment please!

What about http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Stormcast-Eternals-Gaming-Bundle-ENG

Seriously - a HEWN knobby measuring stick -  box made of THE HARDEST resin and some dice, and the rules in a book! That's probably HEWN from THE HARDEST paper...

zero discount of any kind for bundle purchase - even qualifies for free uk delivery, at current pricing, for this month at least

Bargain!

Hey and that shaker is neoprene coated on the inside so if anyone else actually turns up other than the slaaneshi tenticle tickler, they won't hear you shaking things in it.

Never thought I would ever see something like this though

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer?Nao=36&Nu=product.repositoryId&N=102295+4294967072&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440002a-flat

The Prices... £0

I... I... Think I need a bigger stiffer drink. and its not even 9am yet  :o

I will put t'kettle on..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 18, 2015, 09:43:59 AM
The fact they used the words awesome tools together,kind of shows what clientele they know are going to be after this, :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 18, 2015, 10:06:14 AM
So  GW have lots of awesome tools?

Awesome!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 18, 2015, 10:23:05 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 18, 2015, 12:34:08 AM
The Combat Gauge comes on a thick cord, with magnetic clasps, and can be worn away from the gaming table as a unique accessory.

I can see that advert now - Tom Kirby in Catachan jungle fatigues, stripped to the waist with a red bandana and camo facepaint.  He's wearing a Combat Gauge round his neck.  He looks into the camera:

"This thing will make you a goddam sexual Tyrannosaurus.  Just like me".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 18, 2015, 10:29:29 AM
Quote from: Dolmot on July 17, 2015, 11:45:16 PM
Considering the new rules, it really should double as a bottle opener.

Methinks that, all things considered, it should double as a eye opener.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on July 18, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 18, 2015, 07:58:31 AM

Never thought I would ever see something like this though

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer?Nao=36&Nu=product.repositoryId&N=102295+4294967072&qty=12&sorting=phl&view=table&categoryId=cat440002a-flat

The Prices... £0

I... I... Think I need a bigger stiffer drink. and its not even 9am yet  :o

I will put t'kettle on..

Clearly a desperate ploy to make existing players buy into AoS.

Anybody noticed the circular hole in the trinket? Any guesses as to which purpose it is there (other than save material)?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 18, 2015, 11:51:35 AM
Quote from: Argonor on July 18, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Anybody noticed the circular hole in the trinket? Any guesses as to which purpose it is there (other than save material)?

bottle opener of frustration - no matter how hard you look you cannot find a bottle small enough to open

Suspect the original HEWN measuring thing was bigger, and actually was meant to be a bottle opener - they just copied it and Hewed it smaller to replace tape measures and non-hewn plastic measuring sticks?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 18, 2015, 12:04:30 PM
Maybe they will introduce a rule saying "add 3 to your to hit roll if you can draw a perfect circle, 5mm in diameter (please not our fashionable babe magnet measure gauge has a 5mm hole)"?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 19, 2015, 12:55:54 AM
Well, it seems it didn't take long for someone to get out the lazer cutter and slap their homemade range trinkets on ebay...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Handmade-Combat-Gauge/301689961036?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32479%26meid%3D585ea49c1f66499085737a7c2e5b6e94%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D181800638785 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Handmade-Combat-Gauge/301689961036?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32479%26meid%3D585ea49c1f66499085737a7c2e5b6e94%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D181800638785)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 19, 2015, 02:51:16 AM
tee hee. Handmade... with a lasercutter.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on July 19, 2015, 12:21:19 PM
They used to only announce these kind of new products on April the first. Now it is like every day is April 1st with these people.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fred on July 19, 2015, 09:28:37 PM
But its not hewn.

If its not hewn it can't be any good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 19, 2015, 09:47:29 PM
"Heeewwwwn, heeewwwwn ..."

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3530693632/a9d6a1be191f248da8cb7ae2a2229f3d.jpeg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 20, 2015, 01:49:59 AM
Looks like some other old GW video games are showing up for cheap. Knuck from Dakka:

http://www.gog.com/game/warhammer_40000_chaos_gate
http://www.gog.com/game/warhammer_shadow_of_the_horned_rat
http://www.gog.com/game/final_liberation_warhammer_epic_40000

I bought Shadow of The Horned Rat because I enjoyed it's sequel, Dark Omens, and despite some reviews there it works okay on my computer. Bit clunky though. I might just wait 'til Gog puts DO up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 20, 2015, 01:56:23 AM
I'll save me pennies for Total War. Always wanted shadows of the horned rat though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Astor on July 21, 2015, 08:48:10 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 20, 2015, 01:56:23 AM
I'll save me pennies for Total War. Always wanted shadows of the horned rat though.

I really wish they'd release Dark Omen...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on July 24, 2015, 02:36:44 PM
Ok, so I have my 10 Stormcast Liberators built and have started to paint them.

One of things that went through my mind as I was applying a base coat of gold is that I think folks who think these minis were made for 12 years old's are probably off by at least a generation and maybe two.

At 40mm the miniatures, though quite intricate and filled with details, actually appear to be fairly easy to paint, even for a guy like me who needs an opti-visor to paint at all. So they are quite easy on the eyes yet challenging. We'll see how they come out, but for the moment I'm having fun with them.

As for the price point, I don't think these miniatures are aimed at 12 years old's or even their parents. I would say that most likely they are aimed at the 40K fans (who already appear to be accustomed to GW prices) and older gamers with disposable income... like me.

When you visit other forums like Dakka Dakka, you realize that there are a lot of folks out there that spend princely sums on GW products.

Take a look at this guys wonderful painting (due open the spoilers, they are definitely worth it) and try to imagine just how much money he has poured into the GW coffers:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/594683.page
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 24, 2015, 03:03:27 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on July 24, 2015, 02:36:44 PM
Take a look at this guys wonderful painting (due open the spoilers, they are definitely worth it) and try to imagine just how much money he has poured into the GW coffers:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/594683.page
Ahh yes, I know this painter's work well. I always love the themes and striking effects he manages, and the speed of his output is truly phenomenal!

Whilst he does make a lot of very big armies for personal projects and tournaments, most of his work is as a commission painter. He has a website here (http://www.gmmstudios.net/) with all his projects on it - I prefer this to navigating the dakka forum!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 24, 2015, 07:22:10 PM
Latest fluff from white dwarf.human war tribes still fight for sigmar,from the writing I imagine very cultisty , remnants of the world that was.slaansh still lives and his/her armies are still fighting , reaching new depths of depravity to try and reach the levels of excess that will bring him/her back to them. Fr from being squated, hes now the absent prince. The great horned rat is sat on the throne of a chaos god and blightcity, his realm, is stuck to the realm of chaos like a leech, gnawing into the other realms.

Theres also a great pic of the war altar of sigmar and cultists on round bases fighting with eternals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 26, 2015, 05:35:41 AM
Quote from: Argonor on July 18, 2015, 11:41:03 AM
Anybody noticed the circular hole in the trinket? Any guesses as to which purpose it is there (other than save material)?

It's a tunnel vision simulator. It allows you to look at box art through it, but obscures the price tag.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 26, 2015, 07:57:09 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on July 26, 2015, 05:35:41 AM
It's a tunnel vision simulator. It allows you to look at box art through it, but obscures the price tag.
lol lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on July 26, 2015, 08:10:42 AM
Quote from: YPU on July 26, 2015, 07:57:09 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on July 26, 2015, 05:35:41 AM
It's a tunnel vision simulator. It allows you to look at box art through it, but obscures the price tag.
lol lol lol lol

What he lol-ed.  lol Additionally, saving on material was probably necessary to finance all the HEWING(TM) involved.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 26, 2015, 10:41:07 AM
Wow. Bows and big arrows and crossbowstormbolters and skybolters, and heavy crossbowstormbolters... Bolts, bolters, that sounds familiar..

Sky bolts and lightning bolts

They are big. Lots of should pads, heads etc to..

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Skybolt-Hailstorm

Or

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Stormcast-Eternals-Judicators

skybolt bows, or the rapid -fire boltstorm crossbow

Bolters....oh.


Wonder if theres a SkyRaider or StormRhino transport or something similar coming out soon?




Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 26, 2015, 12:16:40 PM
To be fair to them, if the called the crossbows storm arrows crossbows, people would compassion that crossbows fire bolts. ::)
I really like the crossbow guys actually, they look chunky, unwieldy and dangerous. They look like they got sick of hammers and just picked up some siege balistas and went to town.
The bows look silly tho, they're too flimsy, and I think some full chainmail stormcast rangers would have been cooler.

The big monster crossbow looks like a water balloon shooter.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on July 26, 2015, 12:27:06 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 26, 2015, 12:16:40 PM
The big monster crossbow looks like a water balloon shooter.
Well, the setting did get nerfed...  lol

I wonder how long before they accidentally call these warriors "Adeptus Sigmares" in one of their stories?
I don't like them for a fantasy setting, not at all, but keep thinking they would make great iron golems, or be a basis for steam-powered armour or 40K Age of Strife Thunder Warriors and/or techno-barbarians.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 26, 2015, 01:42:05 PM
Quote from: Modhail on July 26, 2015, 12:27:06 PM
Well, the setting did get nerfed...  lol

I wonder how long before they accidentally call these warriors "Adeptus Sigmares" in one of their stories?
I don't like them for a fantasy setting, not at all, but keep thinking they would make great iron golems, or be a basis for steam-powered armour or 40K Age of Strife Thunder Warriors and/or techno-barbarians.
Someone online done comparison with them and thunder warriors very similar  lol
I quite like the ones I seen painted black,
I reckon they would make good vsf automaton knights.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 26, 2015, 03:49:51 PM
Quote from: Modhail on July 26, 2015, 12:27:06 PM
[..] 40K Age of Strife Thunder Warriors and/or techno-barbarians.

Bingo.

That said, I still really dislike the Sigmarines - and each release I see feels sillier than the one before; for example, the water-balloon shooter. Urgh.  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on July 26, 2015, 04:06:23 PM
Some of them are painted blue....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 26, 2015, 05:10:15 PM
Strictly it's not blue it's turquoise... clearly they don't want folk to compare them with 40K, despite the obvious 'Aquamarines' pun I'm now making.  ;)

In some respects I sort of see where I think this is going... a sort of Pre-40K, which I don't think is a bad concept when all things are considered. It's like each game represents both ends of the same spectrum. I just can't say I like the execution too much.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 26, 2015, 05:44:48 PM
Remove the crossbow limb add a magazine,instant bolter  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cherno on July 26, 2015, 06:18:50 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 20, 2015, 01:49:59 AM
Looks like some other old GW video games are showing up for cheap. Knuck from Dakka:

http://www.gog.com/game/warhammer_40000_chaos_gate
http://www.gog.com/game/warhammer_shadow_of_the_horned_rat
http://www.gog.com/game/final_liberation_warhammer_epic_40000

I bought Shadow of The Horned Rat because I enjoyed it's sequel, Dark Omens, and despite some reviews there it works okay on my computer. Bit clunky though. I might just wait 'til Gog puts DO up.
Hey, thanks for the info. I alwas loved Chaos Gate but in recent times it was a pain in the behind to get it running on a modern OS, and even then it was unplayable because the game crashed as soon as a cultist with a laspistol activated. Some bug in the game logic. I assume they finally corrected it so I might buy it on GOG.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Simlasa on July 28, 2015, 08:38:16 AM
I never played 8th edition and for all I know AOS is a fine game, but I've gotta laugh a bit at some of the guys I see gushing about the new game and figures (and spitting on 8th)... guys who wouldn't have given it a second look if it GW wasn't the company making it.
There's been good fantasy skirmish games around if that's what they were really wanting... but suddenly it's like GW invented the idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 28, 2015, 08:59:09 AM
Gushing over the latest thing goes on all the time - previous recipients include Saga, Lion Rampant and now Frostgrave. People like to talk about the latest thing.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 28, 2015, 09:04:28 AM
Quote from: Simlasa on July 28, 2015, 08:38:16 AM
[...] I see gushing about the new game and figures (and spitting on 8th)... guys who wouldn't have given it a second look if it GW wasn't the company making it.
There's been good fantasy skirmish games around if that's what they were really wanting... but suddenly it's like GW invented the idea.

The "big sell" of GW games has been that they are relatively widely played, and that pick-up games in their stores and local clubs are easy and quick to arrange even with strangers. Regardless of game or model quality, I can understand that appeal, and that's the key reason that people who play those games are quick to lap the latest game version - it provides them with the longest time before official support (and therefore game availability in the stores) is dropped.

Plus, as Nord rightly points out, "shiny syndrome" of anything new! :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Simlasa on July 28, 2015, 11:08:09 AM
I get the 'new hotness' aspect of it... but it only extends to GW's shiny bling... I'm not seeing any of them anticipating Dragon Rampant for example. A year ago getting any of them to try something like Song of Blades would have been like asking them to give up their first born... now they think a smaller game with whatever figures they have on the shelves is a stroke of genius.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on July 28, 2015, 11:36:11 AM
What I am not getting is where are all the cheap models for sale from all the people who are ragequitting?

I had hoped to snag up some cheap stuff in the fallout of Age of Sigmar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 28, 2015, 11:49:39 AM
People will always be people.

Always expect gushing and praise and joy from those with an invested interest in the products of specific companies. Me included if you can find one I really have an invested interest in the products of.

GW did however have the master stroke idea not only to do AOS and get lots of people gushing over the  

o_o New Shiny!!!  o_o

they made their plastic and painted it gold!

The must have shiny has to be sprayed in 17 GBP gold spray paint (no such thing as alternatives in the GW hobby don't forget) to really make it

 o_o o_o Shiny  o_o o_o


- why would you want one of those stupid old armies any more when you can have gold..

Also stops new gamers coming in and wanting to play pickup games with their Granddads superbly painted Empire/Brettonian/Slaanesh or whatever army  - They have to invest in Gold or Red and skulls, or both. Those are "in", yours are not

The cheap ragequits/mini dumps of growing up etc will come eventually, and we might have a slim chance of getting som of them.  :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 28, 2015, 12:06:45 PM
@ Simlasa:

Right, but my first (main) point is the principle reason why.

As for Song of Blades... Well, that's a reason why a lot of current customers are leaving, and why GW hopes that new customers will be attracted to replace them (ideally a bigger gain than loss, obviously).

I don't disagree with you BTW, I'm just pointing out the answers than many GW fans have cited over the years. I'm in the fortunate position that as long as my friends will agree to play a game, no game is off-limits - but I know that's not the case for other wargamers.


@ Dr Zombie:

I's all been "pro-painted" and sold in little bits for twelve times the original RRP due to "OOP RARE OLDHAMMER".
Or, people are simply keeping their collections and just playing the (now obsolete) version of WHFB of their choice. :P


@ Tactalvanic:

I would not be surprised to see a Sigmarine sprue that's been electroplated in real gold sold by GW for some commemorative event (it'd be "Limited Edition (TM)", of course)... Watch this space! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 28, 2015, 12:09:57 PM
I picked up some metal 1990s high elves, been after them for ages, but not willing to pay £3 or more per model. Suddenly I found some and ended up paying less than £1 each - not sure if it was AOS related or just badly advertised, the seller didn't even mention they were metal. I suspect it was a combination of the two. I have recently seen some ridiculously low prices, especially on painted armies. You have to look a bit harder.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on July 28, 2015, 12:13:44 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on July 28, 2015, 11:36:11 AM
What I am not getting is where are all the cheap models for sale from all the people who are ragequitting?

I'm actually excavating my old minis today as there's now genuine interest in Kings of War around here. It looks like a proper unit-based game instead of being a special rule, magic item and large monster fest. Meanwhile, other people are working on community rules for 8th edition as it's now abandoned by GW. They're fixing the worst balance issues and bringing back some axed armies like Dogs of War so there's another bunch of people who now have a chance to play an improved game with their old minis.

Fantasy battles have suddenly become popular again, AoS not so much. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on July 28, 2015, 12:29:45 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on July 28, 2015, 11:36:11 AM
What I am not getting is where are all the cheap models for sale from all the people who are ragequitting?

No mate, folks are just breaking up starter sets and selling small sets to make a buck.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 28, 2015, 12:49:55 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on July 28, 2015, 12:13:44 PM
I'm actually excavating my old minis today as there's now genuine interest in Kings of War around here. It looks like a proper unit-based game instead of being a special rule, magic item and large monster fest.

It seems actually quite well timed, the killing off of WFB Official version and the iminent arrival of KOW 2 rules.

What I think should be remembered though, as far as I currently know (someone correct me if otherwise), none of their products are HEWN - particularly their gaming aides

Guess that does not matter if your using old stuff and fluff, but might need to be considered in the future...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Damas on July 28, 2015, 03:12:31 PM
I've not read much of the fluff (I'd rather cut off and eat my arm, well someone's arm anyway) but the whole Sigmar leading the Technobarbarians, Slaneesh surpressed and not in the pantheon of gods thing (did I get that right?) etc., etc. is just the early days of the Emperor(TM) before the great crusade.  Call the Dwarves the ancestors of Mars and whatever, I've lost interest and suddenly AoS has merged into Warhammer 10K.

The next revision will be Warhammer 20K and will merge with the backwards trend from Warhammer 40K to 30K to 20K and they can then just market one system.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 28, 2015, 03:54:12 PM
Quote from: Damas on July 28, 2015, 03:12:31 PM
I've not read much of the fluff (I'd rather cut off and eat my arm, well someone's arm anyway) but the whole Sigmar leading the Technobarbarians, Slaneesh surpressed and not in the pantheon of gods thing (did I get that right?) etc., etc. is just the early days of the Emperor(TM) before the great crusade.  Call the Dwarves the ancestors of Mars and whatever, I've lost interest and suddenly AoS has merged into Warhammer 10K.

The next revision will be Warhammer 20K and will merge with the backwards trend from Warhammer 40K to 30K to 20K and they can then just market one system.

Yes, I think the plan is that will be the Hewn edition. Possibly hewn from the skulls of former players/hobbyists?
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 28, 2015, 04:03:07 PM
Financials are out - pretty static.  Sales down, profits up as they didn't blow £4 million on a shitty website this year.  AoS too late to be included.

One-man shops are apparently a "proven" success, but they will be trialling multi-staff shops in certain big-city hotspots (innovation!!!).

Major rebranding - shops will become "Warhammer" shops.

Looking at a major redevelopment/reassessment of all lines.  RRP won't be reduced (quality, man!), but they're thinking about more low-cost items.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 28, 2015, 04:07:57 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on July 28, 2015, 04:03:07 PM
Financials are out - pretty static.  Sales down, profits up as they didn't blow £4 million on a shitty website this year.  AoS too late to be included.

One-man shops are apparently a "proven" success, but they will be trialling multi-staff shops in certain big-city hotspots (innovation!!!).

Major rebranding - shops will become "Warhammer" shops.

Looking at a major redevelopment/reassessment of all lines.  RRP won't be reduced (quality, man!), but they're thinking about more low-cost items.



Linky possible?

Low Cost ???

Surely not?

Assume thats relative low cost in comparison to their "normal" cost

Do you think they have found some old stuff under the sofa next to 2017 edition of Space Hulk?

Too late I stopped being lazy and found it...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 28, 2015, 04:09:17 PM
Reading back over the Chapterhouse case and the clusterfuck GW made of it, one thing that caught my eye again is that they have fewer IP rights over toys (especially design rights over OOP ones) than they do over collectors items.

That may be why they insist they're a miniatures company rather than a games company, why they're changing names and why they're pushing the game element to the back.

If you ever though that GW was a well-organised company, read over the case again.  It's hilarious.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 28, 2015, 04:10:21 PM
http://investor.games-workshop.com/ (http://investor.games-workshop.com/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 28, 2015, 04:20:05 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on July 28, 2015, 11:36:11 AM
What I am not getting is where are all the cheap models for sale from all the people who are ragequitting?

I had hoped to snag up some cheap stuff in the fallout of Age of Sigmar.

Because they are not only rage quitting, but burning their dudez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=493&v=plUPJ0inN4c

Beware loud scremo sound track for half its length or so (it's too loud and I can't understand the words).  ::)

What a waste of a perfectly good piece of board though.  :(

Quote from: Damas on July 28, 2015, 03:12:31 PM
... and suddenly AoS has merged into Warhammer 10K.

The next revision will be Warhammer 20K and will merge with the backwards trend from Warhammer 40K to 30K to 20K and they can then just market one system.

I think that is the actual plan at the root... without the exaggeration. I actually like the idea, just not enough to actually go out and buy the game. For GW it's actually imaginative... sort of.

:)

Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 28, 2015, 04:07:57 PM
Low Cost ???

Surely not?

Sure, five figures for the price of ten is a steal.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 28, 2015, 04:33:42 PM
Well..

I have not got through it all but. Read it there first

We are (UK) leaving Europe and each region is going its independant way after all.

Wow

They are well connected to know that aren't they? - Guess that's why they are a in the business of selling Fantasy...

That aside I think I best get hold of my MP and insist they get a head start on

A. rebuiling Hadrian's wall, higher of course..
B. Get the boarder fences up between ENGLAND and those other Johnny foreigners in Wales and.... Cornwall.

Or is it just more GW Fantasy (IP)?

Slow day, I think I will carry on reading now for more gems of Fantasy and Fiction.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 28, 2015, 04:44:54 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 28, 2015, 04:33:42 PM
A. rebuiling Hadrian's wall, higher of course..

Why do you hate the Northumbrians so much???  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 28, 2015, 04:47:00 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on July 28, 2015, 04:44:54 PM
Why do you hate the Northumbrians so much???  :D

I don't !

I am trying to give them more jobs !!!

Mainly in Brick making and brick laying of course, but its good solid work!!!!!

  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 28, 2015, 06:21:10 PM
Wales isn't interested in going solo ... we're not so green as we're cabbage-lookin' to think that's a good idea. Besides, try to keep us out and we'll just invade, rename England 'Wales East' and force you to learn our language. Even the threat of that should be enough.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on July 28, 2015, 07:27:24 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 28, 2015, 06:21:10 PM
Besides, try to keep us out and we'll just invade, rename England 'Wales East' and force you to learn our language. Even the threat of that should be enough.

But think of the boon this would be to railway-station-sign makers! It would keep their children fed for years to come!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 28, 2015, 08:20:42 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 28, 2015, 06:21:10 PM
Wales isn't interested in going solo ... we're not so green as we're cabbage-lookin' to think that's a good idea. Besides, try to keep us out and we'll just invade, rename England 'Wales East' and force you to learn our language. Even the threat of that should be enough.

But GW says you are, so it must be so, surely that's not more GW IP Fantasy?

Its in their former not quite gone bosses pre-amble ramble.

Mind you I was a little alarmed by their mention of the GW academy, their training and how radically they are doing something or other. Wonder whether it should be raised with the UK authorities regards radicalization of young or easily influenced job seekers... o_o

I am too easily influenced  :(

Welsh tube/train station names, sounds fun! Cannot understand announcements normally already, that will just top things off nicely.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on July 28, 2015, 08:37:51 PM
I usually only read the Kirby Pre-ramble...  "We're losing sales, we're losing distributors, but everything is going to be fine, because we make teeny plastic puppets!"
Just lovely how he slides in a few digs at the customer base, really appreciate that. :?
He missed a beat though, by not calling it the Great International Master Plan.

Typical how setbacks are always the result of external influences though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on July 29, 2015, 09:39:28 AM
My favorite part :

" In July 2015, we relaunched Warhammer Fantasy to broad acclaim ‘Warhammer: Age of Sigmar’. We are so proud of this new range of miniatures that we have commissioned an additional statue at our HQ to complement our Space Marine, which has delighted our customers and staff for the last 17 years. You have to see it to believe it, you will not be disappointed."

You have to see it to believe it, you will not be disappointed, indeed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Atheling on July 29, 2015, 11:18:31 AM
I gave up on GW a long time ago..... I won't even go into their shops!

If I need any of their washes and whatever they are calling the paint I often use for a base colour on bases I just mail order them from somewhere else other than GW!

It's just too much "Suits you sir!" for me to take  lol

And as Red Cloud used to say, "That is all I have to say"

Darrell.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 29, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: Barbarian on July 29, 2015, 09:39:28 AM
You have to see it to believe it, you will not be disappointed, indeed.

The downside is that before long you won't be able to say to a local taxi driver "take me to the Reichstag" and end up at GW. I wonder what they will call it in future?

 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Atheling on July 29, 2015, 05:53:56 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on July 29, 2015, 03:52:06 PM
The downside is that before long you won't be able to say to a local taxi driver "take me to the Reichstag" and end up at GW. I wonder what they will call it in future?

 ;)

 lol lol lol

Darrell.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: twrchtrwyth on July 29, 2015, 07:04:10 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 28, 2015, 06:21:10 PM
Wales isn't interested in going solo ... we're not so green as we're cabbage-lookin' to think that's a good idea. Besides, try to keep us out and we'll just invade, rename England 'Wales East' and force you to learn our language. Even the threat of that should be enough.
Forum rules:
2.4 Politics and religion.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES are you allowed to start discussions about current political events, potentially contentious religious issues, or current affairs which may involve aggressive patriotic sentiment. I'm sure we all love our countries, but this forum has members from countries all over the world - please don't assume everyone shares your world view or wants to have it pushed in their face. This is mainly due to myself being a very apolitical person, who personally believes that any beliefs should remain a private matter and be left out of public interaction, at the very least this board. Even if you do not agree with it, this is my forum, and these are my rules.

Calling nationalists 'we're not so green as we're cabbage-lookin' perhaps not a good idea considering the above.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on July 29, 2015, 07:47:06 PM
twrchtrwyth has got a point there. Let's get back to making fun of Games Workshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 29, 2015, 07:52:05 PM
While I can't argue with the rule quotation, I thought that expression wasn't an insult (http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-gre7.htm), and not used as such in this instance?

Quote from: Atheling on July 29, 2015, 05:53:56 PM
lol lol lol

Darrell.

... They're going to call it Darrell? o_o






;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 29, 2015, 08:12:26 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 29, 2015, 07:52:05 PM
While I can't argue with the rule quotation, I thought that expression wasn't an insult (http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-gre7.htm), and not used as such in this instance?

Yes, it usually means "I'm/we're not as naive as you think we look"... at least that's what my Nan used to say when I used to try to distract her and steal whatever she'd just pulled out of the oven.

However... 'current affairs' it is regardless. Let's move on eh?  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 29, 2015, 08:55:07 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on July 29, 2015, 07:47:06 PM
twrchtrwyth has got a point there. Let's get back to making fun of Games Workshop.
This, this is good administrating/Moderating.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 30, 2015, 09:20:10 AM
Well, although posted elsewhere on LAF already, I guess this belongs here:

http://imgur.com/a/r8FRk

On the one hand, I think they look great. On the other hand, I feel like GW are getting desperate now:

"No don't go, we need your wallets! How about we give you those things you've been asking for the last fifteen years?! You know: mini plastic Titans, plastic Mechanicus, and plastic assassins, and, er... Plastic oldmarines Heresy marines. How about some fantasy Marines for those of you who don't 40k? Will you stay then? Please...?"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 30, 2015, 02:27:20 PM
Rumour chern suggests its a Q4 release of Warhammer 30K boxed set to launch a 30k Middleground between 0K AOS and 40K, as others here have already commented.

so not as simple as AOS but not as complicated as 40K errr... ok

Guess that makes three games and they can proceed to burn/throw out the Hobbits and such completely?

"Yes my dear hobbit, you are very special, that's why we are burning you and all your friends."

And the range would then  all be SpaceMarine compatible and More IP protectable?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 30, 2015, 02:43:32 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 30, 2015, 02:27:20 PM
[...] not as complicated as 40K errr... ok

But... When they last did that (it was 40k 3E), everyone complained that the game and armies "lacked flavour"; they've spent the last four editions since then making it more elaborate with each edition!  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 30, 2015, 03:14:45 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 30, 2015, 02:43:32 PM
But... When they last did that (it was 40k 3E), everyone complained that the game and armies "lacked flavour"; they've spent the last four editions since then making it more elaborate with each edition!  o_o

Oh. I missed that. handy there is already a 3 in it.

Get the old books out,  3rd becomes Warhammer 40K, 30K Edition?

Just a few find/replace and print -

Mayabe give someone a marker pen to edit any old copies lying around - sell them as Limited Edition copies - HEWN by hand?

Maybe they can bring out a limited edition Space Hulk at the same time?


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on July 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 30, 2015, 09:20:10 AM
"No don't go, we need your wallets! How about we give you those things you've been asking for the last fifteen years?!

I'm kind of impressed by ranting about releasing and not releasing certain items within the same sentence.

Tough crowd.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 30, 2015, 04:57:58 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on July 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
I'm kind of impressed by ranting about releasing and not releasing certain items within the same sentence.

Tough crowd.

Nah. It's called 'too little, too late'. Wasn't it Andy Chambers who said that if GW ever released HH minis, it'd be a sure sign they were in trouble? And they're in trouble for a lot more and better reasons than being teases about HH marines for years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 30, 2015, 05:53:15 PM
I don't know if they in are trouble or not. Every year for the past several the revenue has been steady or declined slightly. They are certainly not growing, but maybe that's not a problem. Keep milking the same cow for the approx £120m per year. Is that in trouble?

It's true that they have accelerated releases to keep this level of revenue, but if they can maintain that rate, then all's well isn't it? I hate the direction they have taken and not been a customer for about ten years (starter sets excepted), but I don't see them sinking just yet. As much as I dislike them, they seem reasonably healthy to me, financially speaking. Relying on a very popular part of their IP - is that desperation or just shrewd? As far as I am concerned personally, never liked marines so a game of marines v marines is meh, but I can see that it would get their core market very excited.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 30, 2015, 06:03:35 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 30, 2015, 02:27:20 PM
Rumour chern suggests its a Q4 release of Warhammer 30K boxed set...

Huh. I'd actually be interested in that, for reasons that can only be considered sinister.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 30, 2015, 07:54:28 PM
There have been rumours for a while about '30k' going mainstream, instead of just being Forge World's baby. Given recent events nothing would surprise me short of "we're scrapping 40k and going with our new original gaming milieu 'My Small Equus'...".

I also think GW's demise is more a case of wishful thinking by some... it paid a 6.something % dividend to shareholders, its shares are currently 560.5, a rise of 50 since April. Still a way to go to reach the 800 or so peak of 2013, but going in the right direction. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 30, 2015, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: Nord on July 30, 2015, 05:53:15 PM
I don't know if they in are trouble or not. Every year for the past several the revenue has been steady or declined slightly. They are certainly not growing, but maybe that's not a problem. Keep milking the same cow for the approx £120m per year. Is that in trouble?

I think what people are pointing out is that they're running faster and faster to stand still.  Sales continue to fall, even as prices rise and rate of new releases increases.

*shrug*  They make a lot of nice toys and I own... more than a few...  I'll certainly take a look at the Horus Heresy stuff.  Got a couple of boxes of AdMech and they really are beautiful models.  Just rather expensive for what they are.

Can you imagine what their competitors would do with their own in-house production facilities?  They would run riot with ideas... actually, I just want a range of "My Little Genestealer"...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 30, 2015, 08:26:14 PM
Apparently Arlequin and I both want a range of cute lil' plastic monsters...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 30, 2015, 08:56:27 PM
An then they'll change everything and we'll find out that the Emperor is actually Sigmar reborn. and WFB will be renamed Warhammer 0K
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 30, 2015, 09:01:40 PM
But "Warhammer Rules OK!" is kind of funny.  ;)


Quote from: Momotaro on July 30, 2015, 08:18:52 PM
Can you imagine what their competitors would do with their own in-house production facilities?  They would run riot with ideas... actually, I just want a range of "My Little Genestealer"...

Cue comments saying "what a great game Space Hulk/Mordheim/Necromunda/Rogue Trader were... what were they thinking when they dropped them?!"

 :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 30, 2015, 09:05:34 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 30, 2015, 08:56:27 PM
An then they'll change everything and we'll find out that the Emperor is actually Sigmar reborn. and WFB will be renamed Warhammer 0K

Well the theory for years that the Warhammer world was just one of the millions of worlds in the Imperium, so maybe the legend of Sigmar was that of the Emperor or one of his Primarchs during the great crusade.

And the blowing up the world bit was the planet getting swallowed up by the eye of terror.

But its GW so they they will do what they bloody well want :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 30, 2015, 09:09:27 PM
**** 'em
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 30, 2015, 09:12:45 PM
Quote from: Nord on July 30, 2015, 05:53:15 PM
It's true that they have accelerated releases to keep this level of revenue, but if they can maintain that rate, then all's well isn't it?

Can they, though? Faster release schedule equalling even fewer sales doesn't sound great on the face of it.

Quote from: Arlequín on July 30, 2015, 07:54:28 PM
I also think GW's demise is more a case of wishful thinking by some... it paid a 6.something % dividend to shareholders, its shares are currently 560.5, a rise of 50 since April.

People with a fair bit of business acumen and experience - heck, people with a knowledge of basic maths - have been looking at the reports as they come out and shaking their heads. Including when GW piddles away most of their revenue on dividends, or even borrows money to pay them...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 31, 2015, 07:15:37 AM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on July 30, 2015, 09:05:34 PM
Well the theory for years that the Warhammer world was just one of the millions of worlds in the Imperium, so maybe the legend of Sigmar was that of the Emperor or one of his Primarchs during the great crusade.

And the blowing up the world bit was the planet getting swallowed up by the eye of terror.

But its GW so they they will do what they bloody well want :o
To be honest they have been moving away from that more then anything. There were models used in both games once. (zoats) Suggesting the tyranid vanguard had already landed. Slann were present in both games as a old wise race and the amazons even wielded plasma pistols.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 31, 2015, 11:11:17 AM
Quote from: Dolmot on July 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
I'm kind of impressed by ranting about releasing and not releasing certain items within the same sentence.

Tough crowd.

I think it's a case of too little too late. Or, perhaps more accurately: way too much, way too fast, way too late.  ::)

I do kinda like a reasonable amount of their stuff (skullz and spikes notwithstanding), but the speed at which it's being pushed out combined with the fantasy-level pricing makes this impossible to afford/buy; you don't even have time to save up for it!

For example, I would have definitely bought a metal Mechanicus Magos about ten years ago for the £8 or so that they were charging for typical major hero models at the time. But now, that model is finally released, and they want £22 for a single character on foot?! That's just desperate, and I can only assume that they're betting on pent-up anticipation for the model overcoming the inevitable sticker-shock.  :?

Quote from: Storm Wolf on July 30, 2015, 09:05:34 PM
Well the theory for years that the Warhammer world was just one of the millions of worlds in the Imperium. [...] And the blowing up the world bit was the planet getting swallowed up by the eye of terror.

Yeah, I remember that theory doing the rounds back on Portent.net!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on July 31, 2015, 05:15:53 PM
Quote
Well the theory for years that the Warhammer world was just one of the millions of worlds in the Imperium. [...] And the blowing up the world bit was the planet getting swallowed up by the eye of terror.

There was this summer campaign once (Albion?) that resulted in some armies getting some suspecious magical items.
They basically described stuff like an asupex, power weapon and powerfist as they would appear to low tech, magic wielding people.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 31, 2015, 05:17:40 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on July 31, 2015, 05:15:53 PM
There was this summer campaign once (Albion?) that resulted in some armies getting some suspecious magical items.
They basically described stuff like an asupex, power weapon and powerfist as they would appear to low tech, magic wielding people.

Huh, that bit I didn't know!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on July 31, 2015, 05:29:07 PM
But was it because the Old World is part of the 40K galaxy, or because they were dropped by Chaos guys, who live outside of time in the Realm of Chaos?
Personally I've always thought that it was the possibility of using Chaos/Warp to travel through time as well as through space that explained those kind of phenomena. And the fact that it was the Chaos guys that could use technology reinforced that theory, in my opinion.
Not that any of this is proper historical discussion... we're talking about toy soldiers and make-believe!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on July 31, 2015, 07:08:03 PM
Quote from: Ajsalium on July 31, 2015, 05:29:07 PM
Not that any of this is proper historical discussion... we're talking about toy soldiers and make-believe!

That comment probably falls as flat with GW aficionados as Galileo's "Hey guys, you won't believe this, but the Earth totally does go round the Sun" did with the Catholic Church.

;)

I suspect it's one of the time vagaries of the Warp. I'm sure that any suggestion that WHFB and W40K were taking place concurrently in the same Universe would have been met by a furore caused by requests for rules to allow 40k forces to kick primitive butt.

:? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 01, 2015, 01:44:21 AM
Sock puppet?

Also, nicked from Dakka:

Quote
"US Customs turned back all of the Games Workshop folks. Someone mentioned 'working a convention' and they didn't have work visas"

While the source is solid, I have no additional information or confirmations. I would imagine it was figured out, and the GW guys got there.

Things like this happen, its called.... life.

...

Here is the Update
via another source today
Someone at head office messed up the visa application, rather than travelling on a Business Visitor Visa they travelled to the US on a Holiday Visa. Not only were they denied entry, they were immediately deported back to the the UK and will not be able to travel to the US for a while. If they can get a team together in time there will be US staff at Gencon drafted in as emergency cover instead of the dedicated team that are meant to be touring the conventions.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/some-dirt-from-gencon.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 01, 2015, 02:27:38 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 01, 2015, 01:44:21 AM
Sock puppet?

Well, that post certainly smells of old socks...

Quote
Also, nicked from Dakka:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/some-dirt-from-gencon.html

Too perfect.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 01, 2015, 03:08:47 AM
Quote from: matt ward on August 01, 2015, 12:33:15 AM
Having worked at GW myself the whole "evil empire" thing is pure rubbish


i wouldn't be so sure,for Example here's my Copy of the AoS Gamebox:

(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad244/Falkenhayn/GW%20NWO%20004.jpg) (http://s940.photobucket.com/user/Falkenhayn/media/GW%20NWO%20004.jpg.html)
 i noticed some strange Symbols on the Left Side of the Logo:
(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad244/Falkenhayn/GW%20NWO%20001.jpg) (http://s940.photobucket.com/user/Falkenhayn/media/GW%20NWO%20001.jpg.html)
no Signs on the Right Side ...
(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad244/Falkenhayn/GW%20NWO%20002.jpg) (http://s940.photobucket.com/user/Falkenhayn/media/GW%20NWO%20002.jpg.html)

and if you'll have a closer Look at the Runes on the Miniatures you'll notice tons of demonic Symbols aswell

(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad244/Falkenhayn/GW%20NWO%20008.jpg) (http://s940.photobucket.com/user/Falkenhayn/media/GW%20NWO%20008.jpg.html)
(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad244/Falkenhayn/GW%20NWO%20007_1.jpg) (http://s940.photobucket.com/user/Falkenhayn/media/GW%20NWO%20007_1.jpg.html)

(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad244/Falkenhayn/okkultismus.jpg) (http://s940.photobucket.com/user/Falkenhayn/media/okkultismus.jpg.html)

there's no Doubt GW is Part of the Reptilian NWO Agenda  ;) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 01, 2015, 03:18:12 AM
Superb Mechanics... yes 20 years ago but games have developed so far these days. Miniatures are very good but so are so many other companies for half - 3/4 of the price if you still want quality. The background of WFB and 40K are great, I'll give you that but of late things are just too serious but that's just my opinion and as opinions vary I guess my point about that can be disregarded.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on August 01, 2015, 08:29:59 AM
Sorry Dr Falkenheyn, but I can't see the mystic sigils ® or ™ anywhere on that chart you provided... are you sure they have an occult significance?

 ;)

Quote from: matt ward on August 01, 2015, 12:33:15 AM
*snip*
Cheers
Matt

Nicely done, something for every GW Hater to take issue with right there.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Drachenklinge on August 01, 2015, 08:44:40 AM
Love the symbol theory.  :D

As for GW ... AoS for a moment set aside ... few people will argue, that GW do have nice miniatures. You may very well argue (or not) about liking the design or finding it not your cup of tea, but they were well made and technically advanced.
For example the former starterbox blood-island (the one with elves and skaven) was very very well done. Highly textured, brilliantly organized for glueing them together and the parts were fitting together enormously well, like most products of GW, actually.
Sure, there is a line to see, that their minis more and more went along the path to business and away from lovelyness. No comparisan to the old times when uniqueness sipped through every crevice of the miniature.
And now we are coming to the point ...

Though most people may like the minis and the fluff and the (former) rules ... no one like the today's  official politics of GW and it seems that more and more their bad politicsand inner structure influences the things GW had done well.
In fact in my opinion GW had rackamized itself like former confrontation. They simply killed the fluff, the rules, the background.

You may still argue about the minis, that is design, I don't care. Like it or not. Gusto.

But with three keypoints of a game killed, why the hell should I play it?? Maybe GW still thinks it is allone out there. It isn't.
Meanwhile there are better rules, better minis, better games.

best wishes
DK
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 01, 2015, 11:28:48 AM
Seems that GW is going all Sylvanian families in AoS - have to admit I'm surprised to see the wood elves - or at least, the treemen and co. - appear so early in the day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 01, 2015, 11:39:26 AM
Yep. People will get all excited over this reboxing of the current sculpts. I thought they might at least chuck a new one in there.
Quote from: Vanvlak on August 01, 2015, 11:28:48 AM
... Sylvanian families ...
Tee hee hee
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 01, 2015, 12:50:11 PM
Seems like - besides the ET stuff (apparently designed for AoS) - the treefolk were some of the easiest to port over as is, and repackage. Could be a while before the actual wood elves turn up again, or the one universal type of 'aelf' that the three pointy-eared nations are said to combine into. It'll be interesting to see the brave new design that GW came up with.

And y'know what? With extra-chunky plastic figures and a variety of buildings and structures for them to interact with, in very specific ways (and more importantly, to 'collect'), I'm already getting a bit of a Sylvanian Families vibe off AoS. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 01, 2015, 01:05:54 PM
I mean...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81eWRg-30cL._SL1419_.jpg)

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120299029_NuminousOcculum01.jpg)

... same difference.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 01, 2015, 01:55:03 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 01, 2015, 01:05:54 PM
(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120299029_NuminousOcculum01.jpg)

... same difference.

Except this is an awesome piece of terrain which can have many uses.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 01, 2015, 02:43:59 PM
And the windmill isn't!?!? I mean, look, it has a little kitchen if your models are hungry, a little bedroom if they're tired, it even has a little hobby room where your models can put together their own models! How meta is that? And it has a little area right at the top where your models can go to have a good look around at what's happening and plan their activities.

Which is what the Numinous Occulum (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Numinous-Occulum) is for, too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on August 01, 2015, 02:47:40 PM
For €45 I would expect to actually have knowledge of the future conferred on me through it. There was a time when snake oil salesmen and grifters would be run out of town after being tarred and feathered, now apparently they can set up shop on the high street.

The emperor has no clothes on and his agenda is showing.  ::)

I quite like the windmill though, that has potential.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 01, 2015, 02:56:30 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on August 01, 2015, 02:47:40 PM
I quite like the windmill though, that has potential.  ;)

We just need a Windy Miller figure and we will be sorted....  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 01, 2015, 03:12:33 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on August 01, 2015, 02:56:30 PM
We just need a Windy Miller figure and we will be sorted....  lol
And his rough cider  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 01, 2015, 03:15:38 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on August 01, 2015, 03:12:33 PM
And his rough cider  :D

Aye definitely haha  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on August 01, 2015, 03:18:34 PM
Sadly no longer available but: http://www.camberwickgreen.org.uk/the-archive/miniatures/

 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 01, 2015, 04:47:00 PM
I bet that even being OOP that windmill is still cheaper!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on August 01, 2015, 07:21:25 PM
You think? Might just be coincidence.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 01, 2015, 09:57:46 PM
New dryads box has 16 models instead of 12, so the price has gone up by a couple of quid, but it works out less per model than before.
Also the new forest battleforce box thing is apparently cheaper than buying the things individually, which is a first for gw, but i haven't counted it out so don't quote me on that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matt ward on August 02, 2015, 12:54:36 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 01, 2015, 09:57:46 PM
New dryads box has 16 models instead of 12, so the price has gone up by a couple of quid, but it works out less per model than before.
Also the new forest battleforce box thing is apparently cheaper than buying the things individually, which is a first for gw, but i haven't counted it out so don't quote me on that.
See GW isnt a horrible company they are trying to lower prices accross the board (i'd like to see warlord games do that). But tbh why you would want wood elves is beyond me, why not collect ultramarines! They are the best army by far and there fantasy equivent is soon to be released in Age of Simar.
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 02, 2015, 07:45:10 AM
What there's a mulitpart kit of

Marneus Calgar the Sigmarite scheduled?

Will there be a matching £18 spray can of Ultramarine blue to go with the Gold?

Assume he can be assembled with either AOS, 30K or 40K armament ?

hmmmm. I am suspicious this may be just fantasy...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 02, 2015, 07:52:34 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 02, 2015, 07:45:10 AM


hmmmm. I am suspicious this may be just fantasy...



Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No escape from reality;
Open your eyes
Look up to the skies and see....
I'm Marneus Calgar, I need no sympathy
Because I'm 40k, fantasy
Very blue, quite pricey
Anyway the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me,
to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 02, 2015, 08:46:59 AM
 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 02, 2015, 09:03:22 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on August 02, 2015, 07:52:34 AM
Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No escape from reality;
Open your eyes
Look up to the skies and see....
I'm Marneus Calgar, I need no sympathy
Because I'm 40k, fantasy
Very blue, quite pricey
Anyway the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me,
to me.


 lol you nailed it  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 02, 2015, 03:29:59 PM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 02, 2015, 04:46:38 PM
Seems in AOS you don't need teleporters, or drop pods.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/The-Skyborne-Slayers

Just some Stormy Weather I guess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 02, 2015, 06:18:20 PM
I think the collector bug and the desire to build a world in miniature means there's a little bit of the Sylvanian Families fan in every gamer.  Even if wargames claim to be serious business - or is that SRS BSNS?  Embrace it!

I liked the new GW plastic scenics, though I don't really have a use for them.  Could see them in Frostgrave though.  The older plastics were great too, although tinged with sadness that they probably marked the point where it became clear GW wanted to sell you cool terrain rather than help you make it yourself.

I personally am so happy that Matt Ward has graced us with his presence  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 02, 2015, 06:36:33 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on August 02, 2015, 06:18:20 PM
I think the collector bug and the desire to build a world in miniature means there's a little bit of the Sylvanian Families fan in every gamer.  Even if wargames claim to be serious business - or is that SRS BSNS?  Embrace it!

True. If I hadn't got into wargaming I'd probably be building little countrysides for model trains to chug through. One of the biggest regrets from my childhood was that I never got any Mighty Max playsets. ;D

(TBH I've half talked myself into getting one of those windmills too. Wonder how it scales with 28mm?)

Quote
I liked the new GW plastic scenics, though I don't really have a use for them.  Could see them in Frostgrave though.  The older plastics were great too, although tinged with sadness that they probably marked the point where it became clear GW wanted to sell you cool terrain rather than help you make it yourself.

My main problem with them is that, to some degree, gamers are going to buy them for the rules and buffs they give to AoS games. And because the new scenario-driven playstyle demands them, apparently. I'll say most will still buy them because they like the look, and that's fine, but there's this added layer of 'I have to buy these to make my dollies play better!' or 'I have to buy these because GW says I need 'em for these battles!' It's more of GW's ol' 'buy to win' shenanigans, only this time they're foisting it on piles of plastic stone as well as little fighting men.

Mutter mutter grumble.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 02, 2015, 06:42:50 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 02, 2015, 06:36:33 PM
(TBH I've half talked myself into getting one of those windmills too. Wonder how it scales with 28mm?)

Me too...  :)

Quote
My main problem with them is that, to some degree, gamers are going to buy them for the rules and buffs they give to AoS games.

Hmm hadn't thought of that  :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 02, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 02, 2015, 06:36:33 PM
True. If I hadn't got into wargaming I'd probably be building little countrysides for model trains to chug through. One of the biggest regrets from my childhood was that I never got any Mighty Max playsets. ;D



My brother had a bunch of mighty max playsets, i always loved the look of duncan the hero! im sure i have a model of him kicking around somewhere that i might paint up for fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 02, 2015, 08:55:25 PM
I saw some of the scenery boxes at Claymore yesterday. I quite like the Realmgates, but really don't need two (ok, really don't need any, but you know what I mean ;D)

Spent my pennies elsewhere.

Regarding the gold paint, I was starting to think it was an urban legend, but nope, it's real. It too me a while to track down on the site, as if you put in "spray paint" you only get black and white. You have to just put in "spray". I wonder if it's there to make their other overpriced spray cans (£10 for a can of white, seriously) look reasonable o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on August 03, 2015, 05:41:26 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 01, 2015, 09:57:46 PM
New dryads box has 16 models instead of 12, so the price has gone up by a couple of quid, but it works out less per model than before.
Also the new forest battleforce box thing is apparently cheaper than buying the things individually, which is a first for gw, but i haven't counted it out so don't quote me on that.

Most of the battallions work out a little cheaper in my experience, but that might just be the few I looked at.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 04, 2015, 10:46:15 AM
I actually kind of like the new grey... er .. golden knights. If they weren't so darn expensive, I could see them used as constructs/living statues in settings like Frostgrave and the likes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 04, 2015, 11:29:51 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on August 03, 2015, 05:41:26 AM
Most of the battallions work out a little cheaper in my experience, but that might just be the few I looked at.

Battalions (and Battleforces) were relatively good value compared to buying the kits separately. Some were definitely better than others though (namely: those you'd want to buy two or three of, rather than those that you only want one of because they contain a poor/ugly unit).

Nowadays, they do still offer a very modest saving, but the sizes are getting chopped down a lot which tightens the saving even more. I also think that a lot of bits sellers were buying the big boxes and chopping them up, which is probably a major reason why GW stopped making them better value (i.e., force the cost to the bits sellers to rise, and hopefully make the parts they sell unattractively expensive to put them out of business).

@ Argonor: I think that's essentially what they are in AoS anyway!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 05, 2015, 10:46:30 PM
New khorne bloodreavers out next week. 20 miniatures for £30 (?) ,look good!
Also, this https://www.facebook.com/oldhammermemes
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 06, 2015, 12:20:13 AM
Quote from: Scurv on August 05, 2015, 11:35:21 PM
so I can buy the chaos guys out of the box seperate next week?

Apparently so.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on August 06, 2015, 03:06:31 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 04, 2015, 11:29:51 AM
I also think that a lot of bits sellers were buying the big boxes and chopping them up, which is probably a major reason why GW stopped making them better value (i.e., force the cost to the bits sellers to rise, and hopefully make the parts they sell unattractively expensive to put them out of business).

Maybe it's just me being a relative outsider to all this GW stuff, but why would they care about bits sellers parting up sets? I mean, GW still gets money from set sales whether they're being sold to bits resellers or end users, and if bits sellers buying sets to resell means more sets are sold total then otherwise would be, then if anything they'd be a good thing?

And running prices up to put the bits sellers out of business? How is that not cutting of ones own nose to spite one's face? I mean, if you're making it too costly for the bits sellers by way of making resold bits too expensive for end users, HTF does that not also make the sets themselves too expensive for end users?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on August 06, 2015, 07:15:16 AM
Yes that's quite logical, but when a bits buyer can service perhaps 20 people out of that one set, each of whom might have had to buy a whole set to get the bits they needed otherwise, GW are down -19 set sales.

On another note, I was surprised that WFB only accounted for 15% of GW sales last year, yet typically takes up some 30-40% shop space. It's suddenly become quite clear why they needed to clear the decks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on August 06, 2015, 07:31:56 AM
Except that no one is going to buy a whole set just for one bit.
That seems to be too hard to comprehend in Nottingham, mind you. ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 06, 2015, 08:42:41 AM
What they could have done instead is sell fantasy just online instead of in the shop.

I was talking to the York manager the last time I was there about old army books and apparently of not sold by the end of September they are all destroyed. Not sold to whole sales or anything sensible,  just destroyed. What a waste.

Sorry if that has been said before...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on August 06, 2015, 10:08:51 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on August 06, 2015, 07:15:16 AM
Yes that's quite logical, but when a bits buyer can service perhaps 20 people out of that one set, each of whom might have had to buy a whole set to get the bits they needed otherwise, GW are down -19 set sales.

Except they aren't, because most of the people buying from the bits sellers are doing so because the sets are priced out of the market for them. They aren't lost sales, because they never would have bought the sets anyway.

SOME of them would buy the sets if the resellers weren't around, but only a small minority, so in the big picture killing off the bits sellers just reduces GWs gross sales.

This would ESPECIALLY be true if one were driving off bits resellers by raising the prices of the sets 'till their customers can't even afford the bits. Yeah, SURELY those people will be able/willing to buy those sets now, amirite? In fact, good job: you've even just choked a chunk of those few ligit "lost sales" out of your market.  ::)

Claiming that they all (or even just a majority) represent lost sales smacks of the sort of blind "everyone will buy all our stuff no matter what" mentality people often complain of here. Same attitude that had us in the US putting our auto industry on welfare not too long ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 06, 2015, 10:33:34 AM
Quote from: Connectamabob on August 06, 2015, 03:06:31 AM
Maybe it's just me being a relative outsider to all this GW stuff, but why would they care about bits sellers parting up sets? I mean, GW still gets money from set sales whether they're being sold to bits resellers or end users, and if bits sellers buying sets to resell means more sets are sold total then otherwise would be, then if anything they'd be a good thing?

There was a time when they offered deep reductions on big sets, and bitz sellers would snap them up.  So it wasn't uncommon to be able get a vehicle on the sprue for £10 when they were £20+ from GW.  That's what the Major was talking about.

GW reckoned this was killing them in the mid-2000s.  So they stopped the deep discounts.  

More recently, they've gone after bitz sellers who break up individual boxes for pieces (and lets be honest, you have a pile of bitz left over after EVERY box from GW).  This is truly bizarre, lacking even the slightest logic.  As you say, these folks buy GW kits to provide a service that GW themselves would find impossible.

It helps if you think of GW as the Tom Kirby Retirement Fund and see their strategy in that light.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 06, 2015, 10:57:03 AM
Welcome to Games Workshop: After The LotR. lol

Quote from: matthais-mouse on August 06, 2015, 08:42:41 AM
Sorry if that has been said before...

I don't think it can be said enough.

Quote from: Momotaro on August 06, 2015, 10:33:34 AM
More recently, they've gone after bitz sellers who break up individual boxes for pieces (and lets be honest, you have a pile of bitz left over after EVERY box from GW).  This is truly bizarre, lacking even the slightest logic.  As you say, these folks buy GW kits to provide a service that GW themselves would find impossible.

Yup. I dunno about raising the prices to put off bits sellers, but they effectively did that when they stopped trade accounts to bits sellers two years ago.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/03/40k-news-cya-later-bits-says-games-workshop.html
http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/games-workshop-policy-changes.html

Now, fair to say I haven't studied the matter too much to know if it's global or just on the American side, but it doesn't seem to have stopped many bits sellers that I know about. Something I've been grateful for, recently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on August 06, 2015, 11:15:02 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on August 06, 2015, 10:33:34 AM
There was a time when they offered deep reductions on big sets, and bitz sellers would snap them up.  So it wasn't uncommon to be able get a vehicle on the sprue for £10 when they were £20+ from GW.  That's what the Major was talking about.

Ah, I see. That makes a bit more sense. Not so much resale issue as a scalping issue, then.

Quote
It helps if you think of GW as the Tom Kirby Retirement Fund and see their strategy in that light.

I've read that before, but I don't understand it. Every publicly traded company is a retirement fund (or part of one) for chunk of its investors. I mean, unless you're planning on dying really soon and have a really expensive bucket list, a health company with an expanding future would be preferable to corporate autocannibalism always one misstep ahead of insolvency.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 06, 2015, 01:01:56 PM
Quote from: Connectamabob on August 06, 2015, 11:15:02 AM
I've read that before, but I don't understand it. Every publicly traded company is a retirement fund (or part of one) for chunk of its investors. I mean, unless you're planning on dying really soon and have a really expensive bucket list, a health company with an expanding future would be preferable to corporate autocannibalism always one misstep ahead of insolvency.

Many of their recent decisions have an air of "Apres moi, le deluge" short-termism about them.  Very generous (sometimes over-generous) dividends - guess who's a big shareholder?  Extreme price hikes in the very short term, cutting back on staff in shops when they're your major outlet and the infamous £4 million to his wife's company to build the website.

In a certain light, of course  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 06, 2015, 01:31:00 PM
@ Connectamabob:

Momotaro is correct on all counts.

The old official bitz service was stopped by GW who didn't want to spend money on staff and storage, and didn't want people to just buy a part instead of a complete set either - this was to force higher sales for lower overheads. So when independent bitz sellers set up and used the big boxes (with their deep discounts improved further by getting a retailer's discount on top), GW didn't like it and has tried several different ways to shut them down.

Further, I understand that they limit what discount retailers are allowed to offer the public as a condition of having a retailer account with GW. Retailers are also apparently not allowed to use the GW official pictures of their boxes and models (but it's fine if they take their own). These restrictions, combined with a restricted selection and quantity of products that GW will sell them, are all intended to prevent independent retailers from undercutting GW direct sales and to drive more sales to GW's own stores.

It's a really greedy and short-sighted series of decisions in so many ways, but they've been talked about enough already so I won't go into them again. Suffice to say that I don't think they've helped big armies sell well.

I don't mind businesses doing well, or wanting to do well/better - it's usually why they exist in the first place after all! But as a customer I dislike being forced out of buying a product through massive unnecessary price hikes, and then being indirectly blamed by the same company for not buying what they priced me out of as the reason that their sales are doing badly. Again though, covered enough in this thread alone already, so I'll leave it there.

Quote from: Momotaro on August 06, 2015, 01:01:56 PM
Many of their recent decisions have an air of "Apres moi, le deluge" short-termism about them.  Very generous (sometimes over-generous) dividends - guess who's a big shareholder?  Extreme price hikes in the very short term, cutting back on staff in shops when they're your major outlet and the infamous £4 million to his wife's company to build the website.

In a certain light, of course  :D

Quite!

Quote from: matthais-mouse on August 06, 2015, 08:42:41 AM
I was talking to the York manager the last time I was there about old army books and apparently of not sold by the end of September they are all destroyed. Not sold to whole sales or anything sensible,  just destroyed. What a waste.

Yeah, they apparently did the same with copies of Dreadfleet that they failed to sell.

A waste maybe, but (1) not that uncommon actually, and (2) shows how much profit was made if they can afford to do that. I suspect that it's also to eke out what they can money-wise before killing off any remaining competition to AoS - again, not a big surprise really. <shrug>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 06, 2015, 02:01:26 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 06, 2015, 01:31:00 PM
Yeah, they apparently did the same with copies of Dreadfleet that they failed to sell.

A waste maybe, but (1) not that uncommon actually, and (2) shows how much profit was made if they can afford to do that. I suspect that it's also to eke out what they can money-wise before killing off any remaining competition to AoS - again, not a big surprise really. <shrug>

Also not a new tactic.  

Black Library announced they were getting out of RPGs the day after they released the Dark Heresy game.  There's a rumour that once they shipped pre-orders and early purchases, a big chunk of the print run was loaded onto a truck and taken to landfill.

Grain of salt etc  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 08, 2015, 04:49:04 PM
I bit the bullet, bought the book and played - and enjoyed - a game of AoS, Elves vs. Ogres ( or Aelves vs Urruks I believe they are called now ). My elves sure did know how to die quickly, but never mind, it was fun although we noticed a few shortcomings, notably the lack of points on the battle scrolls. But hey, we were sure it would get better after the WFB units would be fased out and the new AoS units with scrolls would enter the fray.
But to be quite honest, I feel a bit "you-know-what" after the rumours of getting a new big book about one month later with some rules changes and errata ( and new warscrolls ). It's going too quick and getting too expensive, and due to lack of communication from GW I don't know whether this book will fix the shortcomings of the first release with the original rules or that it will be more scenario's, about how to get Nurgle into AoS and some repackaged Chaos units, only to repeat the same exercise the next month.
I was willing to give AoS a few more chances, but with the new not-medieval fantasy look of the models and the release policy I probably will get out of it, resell the book and call it ( and GW, since I don't do plastic models or 40K )  a day, unfortunately :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on August 08, 2015, 06:04:16 PM
Nothing I read motivates me in any way to give GW another shot...  Sad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 09, 2015, 10:34:47 PM
umm ok

this, actually almost tempting - excepting I am not actually that impressed with most of them but £20

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Pestilens-Plague-Monks

and for GW that's almost a believable price little small being skaven (I assume at the moment) but maybe they have upscaled them - but twenty in the box...

But this:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Pestilens-Plague-Censer-Bearers

£20 ???

a tenner each? granted I am not that impressed with most of them sculpt-wise but ?

Its two random miniatures, not even a multi-part kit

Now I have an image of the fifth element movie with the scene were a certain actress keeps going on about multi-pass only shes waving GW boxes about saying multi-part, multi-part.

I think its past my bed time....

Quote from: Too Bo Coo on August 08, 2015, 06:04:16 PM
Nothing I read motivates me in any way to give GW another shot...  Sad.

I agree. But sometimes they are good for a laugh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 09, 2015, 10:50:31 PM
Sounds about par for the course for Skaven. Cheap plastic grunts and expensive metal/resin thingummies. (There's a reason I don't own any poisoned wind globadiers...) Though, were plague monks at these clanrat prices before the AoS repackage? If they brought the stormvermin down to about the same price I'd sit up and take notice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on August 10, 2015, 12:39:07 AM
I do not think the price of plague monks have changed, but the plague censors have sure jumped in price.  Must be in resin now rather than metal so that means they are worth double.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 10, 2015, 09:13:01 AM
Sad to see those old plastics getting repackaged again. Same models, same price, new box. Man, I really hate those "dog" squeeks.  :?

The Plague Censer Bearers are basically two non-plastic models, so prices have been raised to suit that. Again, surprised they're not being made into a plastic kit, what with Skaven set to play a bigger part in this version of Warhammer, and with Nurgle being #2 Chaos god as well as being linked to the Clan Pestelens. Then again, perhaps these are the redsidue of still-metal models in GW's warehouse...?

Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 09, 2015, 10:34:47 PM
I am not that impressed with most of them sculpt-wise but ?

They are old sculpts. They're fine, but like the plastic Plague Monks, they don't really fit the current styling.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on August 10, 2015, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 09, 2015, 10:34:47 PM
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Pestilens-Plague-Censer-Bearers

£20 ???

a tenner each? granted I am not that impressed with most of them sculpt-wise but ?

Its two random miniatures, not even a multi-part kit

"This set contains 5 Plague Censer Bearers, with 5 Citadel 32mm Round bases." ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 10, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
Thats good news then as when I initially looked it stated 2

5 is much better :)

Happy to be corrected :)

Still, I will stick with  the metal ones I have. Somewhere..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 10, 2015, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 10, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
Thats good news then as when I initially looked it stated 2

Same here - and I read it carefully too, looking for a hint on what material they are as well.

The new update means that £4 each is much more reasonable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on August 10, 2015, 12:29:57 PM
That is funny.  It definitely said there were 2 in the package yesterday.

Maybe it was deliberate to see if there was a big outcry or not.  I mean, if folks would pay it...  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 10, 2015, 01:37:13 PM
I read it first thing this morning when I saw this thread - definitely said a random 2 from 5 variations.

Maybe they read LAF and were shamed into changing it :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 10, 2015, 01:40:20 PM
Quote from: zemjw on August 10, 2015, 01:37:13 PM
Maybe they read LAF and were shamed into changing it :D

Shamed? I don't think thats possible in this plane of reality.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 10, 2015, 02:05:39 PM
On the age of sigmar Facebook page there's alot of talk of people getting in touch with gw and actually getting full replies telling them that they are making a new effort to take feedback and fix long standing problems with things like pricing and communication. They've even been sending out free merchandise....  0_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 10, 2015, 02:12:37 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 10, 2015, 02:05:39 PM
[...] they are making a new effort to take feedback and fix long standing problems with things like pricing and communication. They've even been sending out free merchandise....  0_o

*Faints*  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on August 10, 2015, 02:16:32 PM
Hmm, merchandise.....I got a free Sigmar button in my last order, gave it back to the manager as I'm only in it for games GW killed off. He said I was the fifth to do so that week  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 10, 2015, 06:03:31 PM
Quote from: Gunbird on August 10, 2015, 02:16:32 PM
Hmm, merchandise.....I got a free Sigmar button in my last order, gave it back to the manager as I'm only in it for games GW killed off. He said I was the fifth to do so that week  lol
GW Eindhoven? I find the guy who runs the place tends to be Ok, for a GW manager.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on August 10, 2015, 07:48:41 PM
Nope, GW Tilburg .... never been to the Eindhoven one actually.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 10, 2015, 09:04:38 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 09, 2015, 10:34:47 PM
umm ok

But this:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Pestilens-Plague-Censer-Bearers

£20 ???

a tenner each? granted I am not that impressed with most of them sculpt-wise but ?

Its two random miniatures, not even a multi-part kit

"This set contains 5 Plague Censer Bearers, with 5 Citadel 32mm Round bases."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 10, 2015, 09:33:36 PM
On Saturday the webpage said 2 censer bearers ...it's now been corrected.

Can't remember how much a pack was before the Age of Sigmar struck, but doesn't seem tooooooo different...  ???

Is this thread starting to go round in circles...  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 10, 2015, 09:47:43 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on August 10, 2015, 09:33:36 PM
On Saturday the webpage said 2 censer bearers ...it's now been corrected.

Can't remember how much a pack was before the Age of Sigmar struck, but doesn't seem tooooooo different...  ???

Is this thread starting to go round in circles...  ;D

That would be great, if it is, we might get warhammer fantasy battle back in print sometime next week if it is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 11, 2015, 04:48:16 PM
For me there is only one Age of Sigmar, and that is 2000+ years ago when Sigmar united the primitive human tribes against the Orcs and the Dwarves granted him Ghal Maraz... This new-fangled Sigmarine stuff manages to push none of my buttons.

I just hope they won't pull the same stunt with 40k...
Then again I've still got all of my rulebooks, and plenty of others rule sets that work just as well (at the least).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dampfpanzerwagon on August 11, 2015, 09:49:50 PM
Why is the NEW White Dwarf nothing like the White Dwarf I remember?

http://dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/white-dwarf-retrospective.html

Tony
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fred on August 11, 2015, 10:00:18 PM
The WD I remember is even older than the one you remember !!

I remember when there were articles and scenarios for all sorts of games - and very little GW stuff in it. The more GW in it the less I liked it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 12, 2015, 01:26:26 AM
Quote from: Modhail on August 11, 2015, 04:48:16 PM
I just hope they won't pull the same stunt with 40k...
Then again I've still got all of my rulebooks, and plenty of others rule sets that work just as well (at the least).

And the models, don't forget the models. They make me happy every time I look at them  :).
Good Wargames Foundry slowly re-releases some old Citadel human favorites because I feel everybody should be able to enjoy them and at reasonable prices too ( no, I don't work for the Ansell gang ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on August 12, 2015, 09:08:40 AM
I would imagine that limited edition re-releases of some of the older figure ranges/models as 'collectors items' would prove popular... or of course provide a tax write-off.
 :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 12, 2015, 07:42:29 PM
If they had any sense they'd release Warhammer Classic as a third "system" and cash in on this Oldhammer stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 12, 2015, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 12, 2015, 07:42:29 PM
If they had any sense they'd release Warhammer Classic as a third "system" and cash in on this Oldhammer stuff.

Ah ... the 'New Coke', 'Classic Coke' effect.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 12, 2015, 08:34:59 PM
Yep! It'd work well here, given how many people are disappointed by the Age of Sigmar stuff. Those who do like the new stuff can carry on with it, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 12, 2015, 08:57:26 PM
Ahh but you forget, in GW hobby years, AOS is now "old".

WFB as it was is so ancient, dead burned and buried as to be unheard of in the "now", and AOS is not the "new".

We should be expecting the next edition of the AOS rules soon to provide the new ;D





Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 12, 2015, 09:10:38 PM
Tactalvanic, that explanation sounded so 1984, I got a bit worried about committing a thoughtcrime by reading it... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 12, 2015, 09:46:51 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 12, 2015, 08:57:26 PM

We should be expecting the next edition of the AOS rules soon to provide the new ;D


Not sure if joke or not, given the recent announcement from GW but this made me chuckle ever so hard....... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on August 12, 2015, 11:09:49 PM
Quote from: Modhail on August 12, 2015, 09:10:38 PM
Tactalvanic, that explanation sounded so 1984, I got a bit worried about committing a thoughtcrime by reading it... lol

You are. Warhammer: Age of Sigmar has always been called that and besides 40K and the Hobbit is the only game Games Workshop has ever produced. The prolefeed has been rectified and confirms this. It is goodthinkwise doubleplusgood to play Age of Sigmar. Upsub and crimestop!

 :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 13, 2015, 08:58:41 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on August 12, 2015, 11:09:49 PM
You are. Warhammer: Age of Sigmar has always been called that and besides 40K and the Hobbit is the only game Games Workshop has ever produced. The prolefeed has been rectified and confirms this. It is goodthinkwise doubleplusgood to play Age of Sigmar. Upsub and crimestop!

 :-I

um, I think my servers are watching me..

Quote from: matthais-mouse on August 12, 2015, 09:46:51 PM
Not sure if joke or not, given the recent announcement from GW but this made me chuckle ever so hard....... lol

Almost everything I put in this particular thread is a joke, the fact sometimes it actually correlates with what GW are doing is purely accidental...

That aside.

I reckon they will be automatically replacing your downloaded versions with revised editions soon so you don't have to worry about using old versions, or owning old versions of the rules, as you won't have them...

Hopefully we won't be waking up, logging on and finding the latest rulebook downloaded to our devices includes a free Bolthrower inspired U2 album.. -  listen to as you play.

Still waiting for them to announce GW Hex bases - just sayin'  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on August 13, 2015, 02:33:16 PM
We joke about it, but effectively GW has indeed always 'rectified' its products with new edition of rules and codexes etc. Fluff has been subtly altered along the way to conform to the new truth as well. What went before is indeed 'oldthink' and subversive.

Of course it succeeds in this due to both its 'long term fans' accepting the changes as the new truth and that its short-term target audience changes every three or four years as they grow into and out of the GW Hobby. The uniqueness of GW is that no other wargaming company operates on this model... yet.


On another note, can some 'smilies' be considered facecrime?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 14, 2015, 08:52:00 AM
Rectified or rectum all sounds the same to me lol :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: baldlea on August 16, 2015, 02:20:29 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 13, 2015, 08:58:41 AM

Hopefully we won't be waking up, logging on and finding the latest rulebook downloaded to our devices includes a free Bolthrower inspired U2 album.. -  listen to as you play.


Free Bolt Thrower would actually get me interested. Was listening to it just 10 mins ago while painting the skirting board.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 16, 2015, 02:29:49 PM
I remember having the free sabbat Flexi disc off white dwarf,and made my mum buy me bolt thrower realm of chaos for Christmas , lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 17, 2015, 12:54:55 AM
Quote from: Vermis on July 20, 2015, 01:49:59 AM
I bought Shadow of The Horned Rat because I enjoyed it's sequel, Dark Omens, and despite some reviews there it works okay on my computer. Bit clunky though. I might just wait 'til Gog puts DO up.

Gave it another try. Order my crossbowmen to shoot some skaven, "yes my lord!", they shoot a couple of times, then spend about half an hour wheeling to face the other direction. What!?!

Just a taste of the kind of fun it's been. It's been a while but I can't remember Dark Omen being this screwy. Again, roll on that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 17, 2015, 04:34:43 AM
Curiously, the Age of Sigmar starter box seems to be selling quite well:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Toys-Games-Miniature-Table/zgbs/toys-and-games/295325011

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on August 17, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Not that curious to me, it's an excellent deal that box. I got one, kept the chaos stuff, sold the others, got myself a chaos force  for almost nothing. For kids it's a great way into a hobby, one that that is unmatched by other manufacturers.

But. Will the buyers of the giveaway intro box continue in the hobby, when they see the price sticker on the blisters and extra boxes, books and dice shakers? That's where GW will measure success, and only they have that data. Speculation on forums is pointless and tends to be wildly optimistic (fan sites) or overly critical (other sites).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 17, 2015, 08:53:18 AM
Cheap for Northern hemisphere. Here it usually retails at $250 NZD or around $160 USD. You can get it slightly cheaper but that is GW NZD prices. I could get a game like descent with a huge amount of add ons for that price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 17, 2015, 08:57:44 AM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 17, 2015, 04:34:43 AM
Curiously, the Age of Sigmar starter box seems to be selling quite well:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Toys-Games-Miniature-Table/zgbs/toys-and-games/295325011

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

Actually, I would say thats good news!

After all, I enjoy reading the posts here, if they fail completely, or at the least to quickly, what would fill the void?

That said it is a good deal for a miniature gaming starter set, in some places..

Would say also that its more important that they get after sales of the rest of the range

Those after sales of the rest of the range are as important if not more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 17, 2015, 10:28:31 AM
They just released a nurse bundle online that I was quite interested in.at first o worked it out as having saving at all compared to buying the items individually, until I realised you get 9 bases of Nurglings compared to the three you get buying them on their own.that means the bundle has a saving of £31!!!  That might just be the biggest saving gw have ever given people!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 17, 2015, 10:30:05 AM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 17, 2015, 04:34:43 AM
Curiously, the Age of Sigmar starter box seems to be selling quite well:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Toys-Games-Miniature-Table/zgbs/toys-and-games/295325011

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

Not sure why that would be bad news...?  ??? It is what it is!

Generally, I think all of GW's starter boxes do extremely well; it's the (much) more expensive follow-up products that can lag behind. For instance, I note that Dark Vengeance is in the same top-20 list.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on August 17, 2015, 11:14:23 AM
Quote from: Vermis on August 17, 2015, 12:54:55 AM
Gave it another try. Order my crossbowmen to shoot some skaven, "yes my lord!", they shoot a couple of times, then spend about half an hour wheeling to face the other direction. What!?!

Just a taste of the kind of fun it's been. It's been a while but I can't remember Dark Omen being this screwy. Again, roll on that.

I'm quite confident that Horned Rat was never meant to be completed by any human.
8 times out of 10, your cannons misfire and either blow up or just refuse to work for the remainder of the battle.
Enemies always outnumber you by a wide margin, especially if you happen to take any casualties during any mission because you simply can't replace said casualties.
Archers will be doing most of their fighting in melee because, as mentioned, the enemy is always more numerous and you simply lack the melee units to engage enemies with.

Those are my memories of the game.
Dark Omen I finished without issues.
Horned Rat was a frigging nightmare.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 17, 2015, 08:06:18 PM
Not seen this clip before, so I will just leave link here

Total Warhammer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKPw86ivR7A
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on August 17, 2015, 08:09:49 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 17, 2015, 10:28:31 AM
They just released a nurse bundle online that I was quite interested in.

A what?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 17, 2015, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on August 17, 2015, 08:09:49 PM
A what?

Nurgle nurses.. Plenty of patients for them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 17, 2015, 08:41:09 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on August 17, 2015, 08:09:49 PM
A what?

Are you not interested in a nurse bundle? Maybe i watched too much scrubs...

I mean nurgle of course, but i was typing on my new phone and for some reason the chaos gods don't come pre loaded into the dictionary.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 17, 2015, 09:52:24 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 17, 2015, 08:06:18 PM
Not seen this clip before, so I will just leave link here

Total Warhammer...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKPw86ivR7A

Like I've said before, I'm not a fantasy kinda guy. It just never inspired me at all.

This game, however, I find really interesting and a Total War game at that.

Probably a must buy in the end.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 18, 2015, 10:59:38 AM
So we get to play doctors and nurses now? It is nice that GW is going back to its role-playing roots.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 21, 2015, 05:46:34 PM
Went to warhammer world today (new displays are amazing,love the forge world shop, and Bugmans is still Bugmans.) anyway,as I was walking through the displays I was ahead of someone clearly high up in the gw team,giving a tour and explanation to two chaps in suits who were taking notes.he was talking about what fans want,the scale of the universes, the iP and how it should be handled ect. The last things I caugh was a conversation about how any movie would need to be big budget, which is why they are talking to new line.

This is the SALTIEST of salty rumours, but it got my mind cogs turning.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 21, 2015, 06:11:51 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 21, 2015, 05:46:34 PM
The last things I caugh was a conversation about how any movie would need to be big budget, which is why they are talking to new line.

i hear Michael Bay talking  o_o o_o I'd like to see an European Arthouse Film Approach on this: "l'inquisition"  lol lol Although i believe neither the 40K nor the Fantasy IP's holds the Potential for real Blockbuster Material.There's too much weird Stuff going on...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 22, 2015, 12:20:16 AM
Latest offering is that you can win the new scenery. Count the skulls to win. Sounds like a joke but no it is real.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 22, 2015, 02:45:47 PM
Hmm film version of necromunda,or brad Pitt as Sigmar  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on August 22, 2015, 04:29:12 PM
As a total aside, I reckon the best action movie ever would be Black Hawk Down using the actors' roles from other famous movies.

The American force would include:

Oni Wan Kenobi
Sgt Horvath from Saving Private Ryan
Lucius Malfoy
Legolas Greenleaf
Spud from Trainspotting
Reed Richards
Chuck Yeager
Hector of Troy
Max Rockatansky
Jaime Lannister

and Josh Hartnett
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blofeld on August 22, 2015, 04:37:35 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 22, 2015, 12:20:16 AM
Latest offering is that you can win the new scenery. Count the skulls to win. Sounds like a joke but no it is real.
In classic GW style you have you show proof of a £40+ order to even enter.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 22, 2015, 05:58:35 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 22, 2015, 12:20:16 AM
Latest offering is that you can win the new scenery. Count the skulls to win. Sounds like a joke but no it is real.

That does sound pretty self aware by somebody tough.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 22, 2015, 10:27:18 PM
I just though that the khorne fort looks like a fighting pit/amphitheater , so i now understand the design choice of curved wall sections. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 24, 2015, 05:10:25 PM
To be honest, from that picture I think the fortress looks pretty ok.
Won't buy it though, but I've come across worse fortresses through the years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 24, 2015, 05:42:52 PM
Folks thought the Stormcast Eternals were OTT.

Wait to you see their upcoming Hero.  :o o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 24, 2015, 06:06:26 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 24, 2015, 05:42:52 PM
Folks thought the Stormcast Eternals were OTT.

Wait to you see their upcoming Hero.  :o o_o
Oh dear...
I haven't seen these yet.
But I may have found a 'missing link' in the evolution of Stormcast to Space Marines: some of the Stormcast (the Liberators, I think) bear a certain resemblance to the original model of Captain Tycho of the Blood Angels - the golden armour chap, seen some way down this:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/136409-crimson-fists-a-black-skull-and-a-scythe-of-the-emperor/page-3 (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/136409-crimson-fists-a-black-skull-and-a-scythe-of-the-emperor/page-3)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 24, 2015, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 24, 2015, 05:42:52 PM
Folks thought the Stormcast Eternals were OTT.

Wait to you see their upcoming Hero.  :o o_o

Apparently as big as Nagash....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 24, 2015, 08:13:48 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 24, 2015, 05:42:52 PM
Folks thought the Stormcast Eternals were OTT.

Wait to you see their upcoming Hero.  :o o_o

...  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 24, 2015, 08:48:16 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on August 24, 2015, 06:28:47 PM
Apparently as big as Nagash....

You're kidding right? Please tell me you're kidding.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 24, 2015, 09:38:38 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 24, 2015, 08:48:16 PM
You're kidding right? Please tell me you're kidding.

Im afraid not, id pop a link but its against rules I think so wont risk it. In the photo though it is as big as a glotkin which are these ones...
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rotbringers-The-Glottkin
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on August 25, 2015, 12:15:53 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 24, 2015, 08:48:16 PM
You're kidding right? Please tell me you're kidding.

think of something like this, 1000% blown up and an 80$ Pricetag

(http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad244/Falkenhayn/Comissions/Sci-Fi/Cell1999004.jpg) (http://s940.photobucket.com/user/Falkenhayn/media/Comissions/Sci-Fi/Cell1999004.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on August 25, 2015, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on August 24, 2015, 09:38:38 PM
Im afraid not, id pop a link but its against rules I think so wont risk it.

Are we not allowed to post pics of new GW releases now? Or am I reading this wrong?

http://imgur.com/a/pyboX
^The new Celestant Prime
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 25, 2015, 10:46:56 AM
I just noticed that Forgeworld has changed their webpage. Now it is the same format as the rather sucky GW page.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 25, 2015, 10:48:54 AM
Quote from: Lawful Evil on August 25, 2015, 10:35:18 AM
http://imgur.com/a/pyboX
^The new Celestant Prime

Good luck taking the finished model anywhere to play games with - if it survives unscathed in anything other than a huge case, you're doing well I think!  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 25, 2015, 12:02:37 PM
Quote from: Lawful Evil on August 25, 2015, 10:35:18 AM
Are we not allowed to post pics of new GW releases now? Or am I reading this wrong?

^The new Celestant Prime

You may post links to sites that report on it after the release has been made, or previews by GW. Do not post links to scans of White Dwarf pages or sites showing such scans since that is a copyright violation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 25, 2015, 12:28:53 PM
Wonder if his bigger brother is called Optimus...?  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 25, 2015, 12:51:07 PM
Are they trying to parody themselves? I can't even tell any more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on August 25, 2015, 01:20:35 PM
Players will want this for the rules. Deep-striking artillery piece with no 'to hit' roll is a no-brainer.

As for how many will think it's worth the price is beyond my imagination.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 25, 2015, 01:53:31 PM
I'd like to see the sprue first.

Don't know if I like all the swirly bits that suspend him in the air, however, if I could attach him solely with the long robes, that might make an interesting mod.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 26, 2015, 09:14:24 AM
There's a post over at dice and brush (with picture, hence the lack of link) that GW are about to announce airbrush paints (in addition to the existing ForgeWorld ones).

While that's going to be good news for a lot of people, they're sticking with their standard bottles, rather than dropper bottles. Way to grab defeat from the jaws of victory  :? The ForgeWorld bottles look like Foundry ones, so perhaps they'll be re-bottled at some point to make them compliant with the new aesthetic.

There's no information yet on whose airbrushes they'll be branding, or whether they'll be single or double action, but I'm sure they won't be cheap
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 26, 2015, 09:24:59 AM
Quote from: zemjw on August 26, 2015, 09:14:24 AM
There's no information yet on whose airbrushes they'll be branding, or whether they'll be single or double action, but I'm sure they won't be cheap

The thing is, GW like to sell a "complete" set of equipment, but I honestly can't see them selling rebranded compressors - to me it just doesn't "fit" with anything else they release in terms of age-appropriate products. I suspect that's probably why their first spraygun had the compressed air cans instead.

It's possible that they can get a battery-powered or low-voltage pocket compressor to sell that would be "safer", but I expect that they won't be offering anything worthwhile regardless of price-point as a result.

This post isn't a moan BTW, I'm just pointing out that as what is essentially a toy/hobby company aimed at relatively young demographics, I don't see them selling something as potentially dangerous as a proper air compressor - a toy version of a compressor though, sure.

As for the airbrush paints sold in tiny pre-thinned quantities that come in flip-top lid bottles... Sigh. Well, they'll still sell anyway, and some of the colours may appeal to people.
In fact, I know of a few people who like hairy-brush-painting with airbrush paints anyway, so the Citadel offerings will be right up their street.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 26, 2015, 05:17:47 PM
Quote
In fact, I know of a few people who like hairy-brush-painting with airbrush paints anyway, so the Citadel offerings will be right up their street.

Right on. The Vallejo Air Metallics are particularly good for being used as brush-on paints, I've found.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 26, 2015, 05:34:22 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 26, 2015, 05:17:47 PM
Right on. The Vallejo Air Metallics are particularly good for being used as brush-on paints, I've found.

I am such a person, I'm also one of the weird ones who's happy to have these in pots rather than droppers,because I find its very easy to waist paint with a dropper and pots have lasted me just as long without any real upkeep.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 26, 2015, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 26, 2015, 05:34:22 PM
I am such a person, I'm also one of the weird ones who's happy to have these in pots rather than droppers,because I find its very easy to waist paint with a dropper and pots have lasted me just as long without any real upkeep.

Fair enough, but for their intended purpose as airbrush paints... Droppers do make more sense IMO.



(And I still keep meaning to try some Vallejo airbrush metallic paints for regular brush-on purposes!  :P )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 26, 2015, 10:04:49 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 26, 2015, 08:59:02 PM
Fair enough, but for their intended purpose as airbrush paints... Droppers do make more sense IMO.



(And I still keep meaning to try some Vallejo airbrush metallic paints for regular brush-on purposes!  :P )

Oh of course, for airbrushes droppers make much more sense, but this way gamew workshop can sell a special hobby pipette hewn from raw plastic and topped with skulls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on August 27, 2015, 03:37:03 AM
Quote from: Cubs on August 25, 2015, 12:51:07 PM
Are they trying to parody themselves? I can't even tell any more.

It sure seems like it.  I know I am probably late to the party on this one but I looked at their store the other day and noticed the new Age of Sigmar fortress sets.  WHO  has the money for those?!?  I really wonder who their market is anymore.  In this day and age parents aren't going to splurge on some massive set when there are so many easier cheaper and still great options a mouseclick away.  And how many GW fanboys do you know with really deep pockets?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on August 27, 2015, 04:36:26 AM
There are people who pay nearly 1.000 € for an iPhone... maybe those guys have (utterly spoiled) kids? lol

And that new hero is basically a rip off the Nagash from yesteryear. GW is plagiarizing itself. ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 27, 2015, 06:33:50 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 26, 2015, 08:59:02 PM
Fair enough, but for their intended purpose as airbrush paints... Droppers do make more sense IMO.



(And I still keep meaning to try some Vallejo airbrush metallic paints for regular brush-on purposes!  :P )

Their aluminum is the shiniest you can get in regular Acrylic in any line of hobby paints. You can get shinier paint, but to do so you need to upgrade to non-water-based paints (like Vallejo's Liquid Gold series).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on August 27, 2015, 11:48:18 AM
I have that aluminium. It is great. Also their metallic medium is awesome. The metallic medium can even be used on its own for a super bright highllight on top of the aluminium. Or mixed with any colour to get funny coloured metals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 27, 2015, 03:10:08 PM
Oh neat, I didn't know that! I'll have to have a look at that one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 27, 2015, 06:33:13 PM
Been a lot of talk about the AoS rules and it appears that some (if not most) are playing with an incomplete rule set.

Accordingly to the "infamous" 4 page rule set this is how you begin a game:

Quote
First you should decide in which of the seven Mortal Realms the battle will take place. For example, you might decide that your battle will take place in the Realm of Fire. Sometimes you’ll need to know this in order to use certain abilities. If you can’t agree on the realm, roll a dice, and whoever rolls highest decides.

Seems most folks are skipping right over this, tossing their minis on the table and fighting it out based on the basic rule set and the war scrolls.

Now, for example, if you decided on playing in the Relm of Fire, there are terrain features which can/should be included on the battlefield such as lava geysers. When a lava geyser blows, minis who are within a certain range of them take damage.

It appears that the Realm Rules are found in the book "Warhammer Age of Sigmar." I haven't picked this book up yet, but come September when I will make my next order, I will get it and report back.

Anyway, when you are reading a BatRep from an AoS battle, check to see that they are using "all the rules" and not just the 4 page basic set. My feeling is that folks who want to bash the game certainly aren't doing so and an unknowing public is being given the wrong impression of how the game is supposed to be played.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 27, 2015, 06:34:09 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on August 27, 2015, 11:48:18 AM
I have that aluminium. It is great. Also their metallic medium is awesome. The metallic medium can even be used on its own for a super bright highllight on top of the aluminium. Or mixed with any colour to get funny coloured metals.

Can you give a link to those... especially the metallic medium?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 27, 2015, 06:59:58 PM
That's changed my opinion of AoS, Ray. But I gotta be honest: not for the better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duke Donald on August 27, 2015, 08:56:50 PM
So goes the only saving grace of the worst set of rules for miniature gaming ever released, namely that they were free  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 27, 2015, 09:11:02 PM
Well, I'm sure the Realm rules are optional.

However, I kinda like the idea of each Realm having it's own quirks which, if used, can effect the outcome of a game. It is very much in line with their normal terrain rules and game modifiers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 27, 2015, 10:11:21 PM
Rules for the new terrain are free online.

As for the realm rules, i have a feeling there's a table to roll against in the starter set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 28, 2015, 03:05:27 AM
Okay, so it appears that the Realm rules are like the fluff, slowly evolving.

The Realm of Fire rules are in the first book and the Realm of Metal and Life are in the second.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 28, 2015, 08:55:38 AM
Quote
Can you give a link to those... especially the metallic medium?

Airbrush sets here - http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/model-air/family/17

Metallic medium is described here - http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/model-paints/auxiliary-products/3
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 28, 2015, 11:07:29 AM
Re: special terrain / Realm rules

I don't really see how these make up for a feeble set of core rules mechanics.

My experience of games with lots of interactive terrain/themed incidental rules combined with tricky objectives is that there is a real danger of one of the following happening:

1) The players are so busy dealing with terrain and objectives that there is relatively low interaction with each other's forces.

2) One player just ignores the terrain and objectives and just goes for tabling the opponent instead (assuming that it's possible to win that way).

What this results in is a game that whilst fluffy, requires such minimal interaction between players that it's hardly a social game any more. Instead, each player focuses on doing their own thing and may as well be playing a Solo game.

I do like themed "ambient rules", and terrain rules, and objectives. But I don't like it when these take over from the point of playing a wargame with another human being - I may as well play a computer game or a Euro board game for much less investment and effort for the alternative.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 28, 2015, 01:38:03 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 28, 2015, 11:07:29 AM
Re: special terrain / Realm rules

I don't really see how these make up for a feeble set of core rules mechanics.

One of the things in 8th ed that made people stay away in droves, wasn't it? I've already mentioned my misgivings about terrain pieces sold on the back of the special rules they come with, too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 28, 2015, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 28, 2015, 01:38:03 PM
One of the things in 8th ed that made people stay away in droves, wasn't it? I've already mentioned my misgivings about terrain pieces sold on the back of the special rules they come with, too.

Yeah... I think many players objected to how the terrain "special rules" basically interfered with what they wanted to do with their armies. I know many people just therefore ignored the "special rules".

For example, some patch of forest might be benign, hurt your models, or buff them; there was either no way of knowing what in advance, and when you discovered them with a unit, it might affect the game in some pivotal unplanned way.

A little dramatic maybe, but do that for all terrain on the table, and realise that players are moving big blocks of troops, and... Well I can see their point really - terrain becomes a risk you can avoid, so you avoid it, so it plays no part in the game.

In a skirmish game of perhaps 30 models a side, the rules could have been more fun rather than a nuisance though. That said, the random effects needed a bit more balancing, and perhaps should have used a 2D6 to determine (to give you a probability curve).

I'd definitely be interested to see that the Realm Rules are like, but I honestly can't see how they will make the game more interesting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 28, 2015, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on August 28, 2015, 11:07:29 AM
Re: special terrain / Realm rules

I don't really see how these make up for a feeble set of core rules mechanics.

I guess if you want mass battles they won't.

However, AoS is a skirmish scenario driven game.

Here is a BatRep which takes place in the Realm of Fire (using the lava geysers from the Age of Sigmar Book):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ITL61_bJI

Seems like it was fun to me and the folks at TableTopMinis having been producing tons of videos on the games they have played. They are worth the time invested in watching them, I think.

Also it appears that if you aren't willing to get into and learn the fluff of the game by reading the books (and playing the scenarios and campaigns they provide), you probably aren't going to like AoS because your only perspective is from the free rules only and not from what is actually happening in the game universe.

Dunno... I still have to get my hands on the first book like I said before and then I will have a better idea.


@zemjw - thanks for the links!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 28, 2015, 03:29:34 PM
You're welcome.

I should have added that I've never had much success with their metallic medium. I'm not sure why, but the results just never look right to me. I prefer the results I get from mixing FW perlescent silver acrylic ink with the colour I want to "metalise"

However, for a couple of quid, it's worth picking up a bottle and experimenting
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 28, 2015, 05:37:09 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 28, 2015, 03:22:16 PM
....

Also it appears that if you aren't willing to get into and learn the fluff of the game by reading the books (and playing the scenarios and campaigns they provide), you probably aren't going to like AoS because your only perspective is from the free rules only and not from what is actually happening in the game universe....


I have to admit Id like to read the books ( is it the archaon, glotkin and stuff before the end of the old world happened that you mean?) but at that high a price and discontinuation of them hiking prices even further up I dont see myself being able to. This would explain how the old world has been destroyed and what has happened race wise and what not but I still believe it should just be a stand alone game/expansion instead of a replacement.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on August 29, 2015, 02:49:57 AM
Quote from: zemjw on August 28, 2015, 03:29:34 PM
I should have added that I've never had much success with their metallic medium. I'm not sure why, but the results just never look right to me. I prefer the results I get from mixing FW perlescent silver acrylic ink with the colour I want to "metalise"

Some mixes just don't work (specially with red).

I've found that an easy way to create metallic colours is painting with the color you want, and then applying a wash over it of metallic medium dilluted with glazing medium.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 29, 2015, 08:52:11 AM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 28, 2015, 03:22:16 PM
Also it appears that if you aren't willing to get into and learn the fluff of the game by reading the books (and playing the scenarios and campaigns they provide), you probably aren't going to like AoS because your only perspective is from the free rules only and not from what is actually happening in the game universe.

Indeed. That's my issue with the whole AoS thing. The fluff and aesthetic is everything I hate about over-the-top goofy fantasy, so I could never get into it and therefore could never get the most out of the game, which could be solid fun otherwise.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on August 29, 2015, 10:50:38 AM
Just had a peek at this celestant-prime. I don't wanna jinx it, but I think they might have reached maximum silliness.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 29, 2015, 11:15:51 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on August 29, 2015, 10:50:38 AM
Just had a peek at this celestant-prime. I don't wanna jinx it, but I think they might have reached maximum silliness.

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120218001_CelestantPrime01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 29, 2015, 12:18:39 PM
See if it didnt have the swirly base stuff, it would look good on its own, that swirly base is just there to add a big price tag height (it probably has an in game effect now knowing them ) but that's my two cents  lol



Also, if you watch the first skyrim trailer, at the beginning the mural with the dragon moving take a good look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpvM9uwOcUc link to the trailer here...

Now after that look at the ophidian archway, is it just me or.....  lol

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ophidian-Archway
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duke Donald on August 29, 2015, 12:31:34 PM
It will cost you the modest sum of £48/€62   o_o

Did I read this right? Is this really a single figure??!!

That's an absolutely insane price for a single standard-sized mini irrespective of the swirliness of its base and is extraordinary even for GW standards!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 29, 2015, 12:42:42 PM
I've heard of jumping the shark ... but this is a shark display team, on water skis, jumping another shark display team, also on water skis.

It's what happens when you hire technical designers to do a sculptor's job.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 29, 2015, 02:54:39 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 29, 2015, 12:42:42 PM
I've heard of jumping the shark ... but this is a shark display team, on water skis, jumping another shark display team, also on water skis.

It's what happens when you hire technical designers to do a sculptor's job.

I do kind of agree here,analogue sculpting requires you to be economical and considerate with your relation to space and think of things as a 3d object, considering every side as a prospective front but there is a detachment when doing it on a screen. 

This mini is flat.well made,well sculpted but poorly designed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 29, 2015, 03:12:46 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on August 29, 2015, 10:50:38 AM
Just had a peek at this celestant-prime. I don't wanna jinx it, but I think they might have reached maximum silliness.

Silliness levels are over nine thousaaand!

Quote from: nic-e on August 29, 2015, 02:54:39 PM
I do kind of agree here,analogue sculpting requires you to be economical and considerate with your relation to space and think of things as a 3d object, considering every side as a prospective front but there is a detachment when doing it on a screen.  

This mini is flat.well made,well sculpted but poorly designed.

+1

+ it looks like they're following their own (forged) narrative about producing models for collectors rather than gamers. Looks like. It does collide a bit awkwardly with their increasing reliance on selling things with special rules for the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 29, 2015, 03:19:45 PM
And to think I used to worry about how to transport a base of Nurglings 4mm high......  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 29, 2015, 03:25:47 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 29, 2015, 03:12:46 PM
Silliness levels are over nine thousaaand!

+1

+ it looks like they're following their own (forged) narrative about producing models for collectors rather than gamers. Looks like. It does collide a bit awkwardly with their increasing reliance on selling things with special rules for the game.

Things is, I mainly collect and this is the age of sigmar miniature I don't want out of all the others, these big monsters just really don't do anything for me. I thought nagash had the same problems,static posing that made him look like a piece of video game concept art rather than a monster paused mid battle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 29, 2015, 04:01:18 PM
I'm fairly mixed about the mini.

On the one hand the mini appears to be very nicely detailed and will definitely stand out are a Hero figure. I like the fact that they have placed him well up into the air (though yes this will cause some real problems in transport especially with those wings). In fact, it's a bit of a novel way to get a mini high up into the air without using a flying base.

OTOH, I'm not sure what to make of the swirly base itself. Obviously it is suppose to represent something, but I'm not sure what, especially with those golden icons attached to it, though I'm sure all will be revealed soon.

Overall, my impression is that he would probably look better without the swirly thing, however the model may not be sufficiently stable without it.

Will wait for more information and a look at the sprues.


Edit: So I had a look at a preview and the swirly bits represent "celestial energy." 3 points of his cape secure to the base, however, these appear to be fairly thinish and almost certainly not strong enough to hold the entire miniature up in the air.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 29, 2015, 05:58:24 PM
And I remember complaining about how over-the-top the increasing reliance on 'Chaos Spiky Bits' in the late 80's was ... they seem incredibly tame now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 29, 2015, 06:24:32 PM
I really liked a lot of the Sigmar stuff ,but that's just silly,my son won't be getting that for Xmas that's for sure lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 29, 2015, 10:48:51 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 29, 2015, 04:01:18 PM
OTOH, I'm not sure what to make of the swirly base itself. Obviously it is suppose to represent something, but I'm not sure what, especially with those golden icons attached to it, though I'm sure all will be revealed soon.

Try to isolate the shape repeated and imagine it in white.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 29, 2015, 11:46:03 PM
I cannot imagine the grief of having to remove mouldlines from that model!   :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on August 30, 2015, 12:54:46 AM
Yeaaah, at 134 dollarydoos, I'll be giving this a pass.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on August 30, 2015, 02:13:00 AM
It is what I come to expect from AoS, nothing really surprises me here.  Though, can we really call this thing a 'mini' anymore?  It is basically an action-figure.

Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 28, 2015, 03:22:16 PM

Also it appears that if you aren't willing to get into and learn the fluff of the game by reading the books (and playing the scenarios and campaigns they provide), you probably aren't going to like AoS because your only perspective is from the free rules only and not from what is actually happening in the game universe.

Dunno... I still have to get my hands on the first book like I said before and then I will have a better idea.



While that is a good point, it seems that to do just that you have to buy a $90CAD book once a month if you follow the current trend.  That is basically like buying the 8th edition warhammer rulebook multiple times a year, just to play 8th edition warhammer.  I might be more interested if I didn't have kids taking up all my free time...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 30, 2015, 02:12:02 PM
Quote from: Timbor on August 30, 2015, 02:13:00 AM
While that is a good point, it seems that to do just that you have to buy a $90CAD book once a month if you follow the current trend.  That is basically like buying the 8th edition warhammer rulebook multiple times a year, just to play 8th edition warhammer.  I might be more interested if I didn't have kids taking up all my free time...

You have a point there...  :)

The Age of Sigmar book has, I believe, 3 Campaigns, 110 pages of scenarios and the optional rules for playing in the Realms of Fire and Life.

You might, however, consider a project going on over at BOLS by Auticus in which he is attempting to put together a rule set called the Age of Sigmar Azyr Composition Rules covering all Warhammer factions for playing AOS. Essentially he is assigning units point values from 1 to 10 and you can use this to balance your armies.

Link to the thread:  http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?57174-Age-of-Sigmar-Azyr-Composition-Rules-1-0b

The rules are in PDF format and found on the first post: http://www.louisvillewargaming.com/Files/AzyrComp.pdf

And it appears he may be trying to put together a small app for calculating army costs automatically. See bottom of page 9 to the linked thread.

Seems kinda interesting....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on August 30, 2015, 11:20:57 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on August 30, 2015, 12:54:46 AM
Yeaaah, at 134 dollarydoos, I'll be giving this a pass.

HAH,  dollarydoos,  what a word :D chuckled for ages at that lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 02, 2015, 08:49:03 PM
Quote
I've found that an easy way to create metallic colours is painting with the color you want, and then applying a wash over it of metallic medium dilluted with glazing medium.

@Ajsalium - I haven't tried that approach, so I'll definitely give it a go. Thanks for the suggestion
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 03, 2015, 09:29:04 AM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 28, 2015, 03:22:16 PM
Here is a BatRep which takes place in the Realm of Fire (using the lava geysers from the Age of Sigmar Book):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ITL61_bJI

Seems like it was fun to me and the folks at TableTopMinis having been producing tons of videos on the games they have played. They are worth the time invested in watching them, I think.

Thanks for the link - I came across their channel when they put up Necromunda and Mordheim, and hadn't realised there was so much more new content.

They seem like nice chaps, and they clearly enjoy the buzz around AOS as well as the games they've played of it so far.

Having had the time to watch the AOS videos myself now, I can say that as much as I enjoyed their efforts, I remain unconvinced that my earlier suspicions of how much the Realm rules add to a game are wrong.

Watching their reports specifically, the geysers in the Realm of Fire seemed to be something they suffered rather than terrain rules that added to the game. Likewise, most of the terrain scattered around the board is assigned a random characteristic, but rarely plays much part in their games. For a narrative skirmish game, I feel this is a sad and wasted opportunity.

For a £45 book, I think it appears to have a shamefully bare set of terrain rules if that's the extent of what's in there. But then again, many of the AOS scenarios I've seen played seem to revolve around getting models to a rally point around an item of plastic scenery and besides killing other models, there are no rules that would make this more interesting - no rules for knocking models down, moving/displacing models, etc.

Then again, I've obviously not bought the book, and I could well be completely wrong - perhaps all this is in the book, and people have simply chosen not to play these rules (yet). <Shrug>


Quote from: Ray Rivers on August 28, 2015, 03:22:16 PM
Also it appears that if you aren't willing to get into and learn the fluff of the game by reading the books (and playing the scenarios and campaigns they provide), you probably aren't going to like AoS because your only perspective is from the free rules only and not from what is actually happening in the game universe.

I don't really see how liking the AOS fluff makes the game rules better or worse. If they are Heroquest-level of basic (and they are), how does having an epic back-story to the hero make rolling his/her six dice needing a fixed 3+ to hit suddenly more interesting?

I know plenty of people who like game backgrounds but dislike the rules and vice-versa. The thing is, a fun game is still fun to play, even if you aren't bothered by the fluff. However, even if the fluff is amazing, a bland game will struggle to keep people's interest for very long.

That goes double if players are expected to have an ever-increasing series of expensive books which keep bolting on bits to the game (and which probably should have been there to start with). It's also unrealistic to expect a new player who wants to get into the game in say a year from now to buy six £45 books just to get the Realm rules and some scenarios, especially on top of expensive miniature collections.

Finally, and somewhat tangentially, I am amazed that in the complete do-over that AOS received that GW still decided to go with the very old and worn roll-three-sets-of-D6 for combat. I mean, it's basically a really simple skirmish game now, so at the very least having opposed rolls would have made determining the results more interesting for both players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 03, 2015, 03:04:18 PM
Looks like there's a Man-O-War computer game in the works now... (Link (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-09-02-now-theres-a-warhammer-man-o-war-video-game)).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 03, 2015, 08:56:23 PM
Cool. Looks very early production though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 04, 2015, 03:06:40 AM
I think it may get over shadowed by this eisenhorn game !
http://www.eisenhorngame.com/
(teaser site, unlock it, listen to the (very good) voice acting and then head to the facebook page ,so not much to go on.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on September 04, 2015, 03:41:06 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 03, 2015, 03:04:18 PM
Looks like there's a Man-O-War computer game in the works now... (Link (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-09-02-now-theres-a-warhammer-man-o-war-video-game)).

It didnt get me 'wanting more' I have to admit  :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 16, 2015, 12:21:04 PM
Spotted some pictures of new Tau battle-suits online. They appear to be going towards titans more and more. I like the look of the large missile one quite a bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on September 16, 2015, 01:43:34 PM
Anybody who has kept up with AoS and can tell a little bit about how it's going, people getting in or out and AoS is getting more and more fans or is it a dying project?
Just curious...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 16, 2015, 01:58:28 PM
Quote from: YPU on September 16, 2015, 12:21:04 PM
They appear to be going towards titans more and more.

Everything in 40K seems to be going towards titans. :) Any links?

Quote from: Duncan McDane on September 16, 2015, 01:43:34 PM
Anybody who has kept up with AoS and can tell a little bit about how it's going, people getting in or out and AoS is getting more and more fans or is it a dying project?
Just curious...

Problem with that is that either way, you're dealing with small, isolated club and forum echo chambers. Personally I'd sit on my hands and wait for the next couple of half-year reports. (Predicting a bump in sales in the next one from the AoS release, and after that... who knows?)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 16, 2015, 08:55:00 PM
They seem to be just churning out all the sigmarines and no other AoS units which is a bit frustrating. I can understand it though seeing as space marines are the biggest seller wanting to get a fantasy biggest seller too. Just want to see some different stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 16, 2015, 09:23:57 PM
Apparently the big american warhammer tournament runners (texas something or other?) have said they are dropping warhammer and switching to kings of war , so the biggest tournement scene in america has just jumped ship.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 16, 2015, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 16, 2015, 09:23:57 PM
Apparently the big american warhammer tournament runners (texas something or other?) have said they are dropping warhammer and switching to kings of war , so the biggest tournement scene in america has just jumped ship.

From social networks, the impression I get is, that the fantasy battle players that are in the scene for actually playing fantasy battles are leaking over to KoW in big numbers, so a major shift in the tournament scene seems to be a logical development.

Then, there are those who still refuse to accept that there's a reality outside the 'GW Hobby' and now think that AoS is the best thing that has ever happened to gaming...

I think AoS may be a leap forward concerning playability, but I as far as I understand, the 3-dice-to-resolve-combat method is maintained, and I personally think that it is too 1985 for me to bother even trying the free 4 pages ruleset.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 16, 2015, 10:15:02 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 16, 2015, 09:17:29 PM
I would say the massively reduced instances of this thread being added to is indicative of how AOS is doing.

Lol! You have a point. But on the other hand, this is kinda what I mean about echo chambers. There's the occassional 40K/FB modelling/painting/game report in the relevant board, and this thread that has regular flurries of activity and long periods of silence; but there's not that much because it's just not a GW-centric forum. (which - although I can take 40K/FB in small doses, in certain circumstances - is one of the reasons I like it here)
And then you'll have places like Dakka or Warseer, where I've seen just the same kind of people as Argonor has*, where AoS is constantly talked about (and where almost every modelling and painting topic is about 40K minis - blaargh!), so it must be doing great, or at least it's still a big noise. Same thing I've seen with people who can't believe that GW's sales figures have steadily if not swiftly dropping for the last couple of years, 'cos everybody plays 40K at their little club, or, ahem, their local GW store.

Sure we can speculate, look at local trends, and have opinions (personally I still think AoS is the latest nail in the coffin) but it's the overall reports that'll tell the most.

* Just a bit concerned that the exodus will make Ronnie Renton think Mantic is doing everything right, rather than taking into account that KoW is just one of the first, easiest stops on the way out of GWville, like Warmachine with unit blocks.

Oh, and by the way:

Quote from: nic-e on September 04, 2015, 03:06:40 AM
I think it may get over shadowed by this eisenhorn game !
http://www.eisenhorngame.com/
(teaser site, unlock it, listen to the (very good) voice acting and then head to the facebook page ,so not much to go on.)

Nice. :) Facebook tho, urgh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on September 17, 2015, 12:31:38 AM
Yeah, I don't visit "mainly" GW-related sites anymore these days, so I was wondering, since I hardly see any new releases being painted or discussed on the web ( might be I'm not looking very good, either  ;) ).
But I was curious about the looks of their Dwarfs and Elfs ( can't be bothered to look up or remember their new GW-names ), because people who played those armies might be willing to convert their existing models or add some special new units to their standing forces. So far it's only Sigmarine and Chaos ( and some repackaged Treemen ). Dunno how long the existing GW-community will keep their patience, but as KOW seemingly is getting bigger they should hurry a bit, I guess.
Anyway, thanks for the heads-up, you guys  :).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 17, 2015, 01:11:14 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 16, 2015, 08:55:00 PM
They seem to be just churning out all the sigmarines and no other AoS units which is a bit frustrating. I can understand it though seeing as space marines are the biggest seller wanting to get a fantasy biggest seller too. Just want to see some different stuff.
See, I don't really get this myself.

Space Marines sell well because they get more models, more support, and better rules than all the other races. Always have too. So that's why they sell so well compared to everything else, and... Well, they just go round and round from there. Even though I love the HH setting, I am at this point thoroughly fed up of the amount of Marines in 40k and the fact that the game rules have been clearly based around them for a very long time.

This is also a big reason I am so disappointed in AoS; WHFB didn't really have the level of disparity across armies that 40k has, but now it will.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 17, 2015, 02:23:59 AM
AoS killed any residual interest I may have had in GW. Even the nostalgia died when they killed Warhammer. I have no idea what they were thinking, or how it's really doing, but I don't even look at fantasy or sic-fi stuff anymore.

Awful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 17, 2015, 11:23:21 AM
I just bought the 1st Edition rulebooks. I'm going OLD-school.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on September 17, 2015, 12:45:42 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 16, 2015, 09:23:57 PM
Apparently the big american warhammer tournament runners (texas something or other?) have said they are dropping warhammer and switching to kings of war , so the biggest tournement scene in america has just jumped ship.

They didn't have a choice really. Warhammer Age of Sigmer, by definition and design, is now a non-tournament game.

As for the minis, it appears that the new Warhammer faction (Stormcast Eternals) initial release is complete. The next releases will finish of the Khorne Bloodbound. Where they go from there, no idea.

Regarding posting of pictures of minis and commentary on forums my personal opinion is "why bother" when all that does is invites butt heads to trash the threads.

So yea, it is difficult to know where things stand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on September 17, 2015, 01:47:21 PM
Quote from: Cubs on September 17, 2015, 11:23:21 AM
I just bought the 1st Edition rulebooks. I'm going OLD-school.

Old school? that's ancient school haha :P

Quote from: Ray Rivers on September 17, 2015, 12:45:42 PM
They didn't have a choice really. Warhammer Age of Sigmer, by definition and design, is now a non-tournament game.

See this is why I think that age of sigmar should have been a new stand alone game and not a replacement, that way they could have been making twice as much money, which they would have liked haha  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on September 17, 2015, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on September 17, 2015, 01:47:21 PM
See this is why I think that age of sigmar should have been a new stand alone game and not a replacement, that way they could have been making twice as much money, which they would have liked haha

Problem is you have a game which folks were fleeing from and which personally I never found attractive. Huge armies ... just don't make it much anymore and huge fantasy armies never interested me in the first place.

AoS is a scenario based skirmish game. It is totally different animal than WFB. You don't need 200 models to play this game and have fun. You need... well... warbands of say 20 to 30 models, if you will and plenty of terrain.

Most of the WFB folks don't seem to "get it" and want to force a square peg in a round hole and when they are unable to do so (almost immediately) go psycho and burn their unpainted armies.

So there is a clear divide here between folks in which you have some very destructive personalities who just can't bear to even "try" to look beyond WFB and those who actually like the new system.

If you go to most forums you will see that either the folks who like AoS have just given up trying to be normal posters of a game they like and others such as at Warseer where you have all the haters piling into one thread after another and those who are early adapters apparently having fun with the new system.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412393-Age-of-Sigmar-friendly-active-thread-Fans-only-please!

I would say that the LAF is one of those forums where folks just can't be bothered. In fact I would say, that those who like AoS have probably completely abandoned the forums and concentrate on painting their armies and having fun games with their mates. That is the direction I'm headed in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on September 17, 2015, 03:30:01 PM
I think for me, and many others on LAF, GW just doesn't produce content in a style that fits my taste anymore, and even if they did, they've priced themselves out of my budget. I haven't seen a ton of the vitriol against GW here that you speak of, more disinterest and a quick laugh at the latest goings on. If people like AoS and post their work here, more power to them (I have no interest in the game or figures but your Stormcast painting thread I've enjoyed, for example  :) ). If I see anyone using a thread like that as a soapbox to "take a moral stand" then I would be sure to poke fun at them and tell them to cut it out. :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 17, 2015, 04:20:40 PM
@ Ray:

I think it's unfair to label a lack of interest about AOS on LAF as "not being bothered" or to claim that people who were interested "have left the forum to have fun elsewhere" - plenty of people have tried the game, watched many instances of the game being played, and tried to discuss what it does/doesn't offer. If they still don't find it engaging... Well, what more can you really ask of customers?

If you like and enjoy AOS, why does there need to be a multitudinous clamour of approval of the game from denizens here at LAF for you to want to post about it? Just post anyway!

Personally, I have made my thoughts on AoS clear on more than enough occasions now - however, I still enjoy seeing your efforts in your thread, and I like that you are enjoying it and want to share your progress with others. I would therefore be saddened to see you stop posting here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on September 17, 2015, 06:52:23 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on September 17, 2015, 02:43:42 PM
Problem is you have a game which folks were fleeing from and which personally I never found attractive. Huge armies ... just don't make it much anymore and huge fantasy armies never interested me in the first place.

AoS is a scenario based skirmish game. It is totally different animal than WFB. You don't need 200 models to play this game and have fun. You need... well... warbands of say 20 to 30 models, if you will and plenty of terrain.

Most of the WFB folks don't seem to "get it" and want to force a square peg in a round hole and when they are unable to do so (almost immediately) go psycho and burn their unpainted armies.

So there is a clear divide here between folks in which you have some very destructive personalities who just can't bear to even "try" to look beyond WFB and those who actually like the new system.

If you go to most forums you will see that either the folks who like AoS have just given up trying to be normal posters of a game they like and others such as at Warseer where you have all the haters piling into one thread after another and those who are early adapters apparently having fun with the new system.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?412393-Age-of-Sigmar-friendly-active-thread-Fans-only-please!

I would say that the LAF is one of those forums where folks just can't be bothered. In fact I would say, that those who like AoS have probably completely abandoned the forums and concentrate on painting their armies and having fun games with their mates. That is the direction I'm headed in.

Ahhh I have no quarms with the game, but games workshop's old skirmish based game Mordheim, I have played for years, I may as well stick to it because I know players for that (plus Im more of model maker and painter not a gamer)
I also encourage people to post about it (like your painting thread too) Just because I dont like some of the models, it doesnt mean to say I think that no one should like it or post about it, quite the opposite, thats why Ive posted positive comments on your thread.

As for my old fantasy army, it was never intended to be a regularly used article, just one that I wanted to model and paint, this change will by no means spur me to sell it.




Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 17, 2015, 08:03:05 PM
AoS just seems like one part of army at this point. All we see are endless marching clones stormtroopers space marines sigmarite ubermensches.

I mean, that's cool if you've long hoped for parts to make truescale space marines with, but that's about it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 18, 2015, 01:26:26 PM
The new Tau Battlesuit is showing for pre-order on Forge World (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Tau-KX139-Ta'unar-Supremacy-Armour)

I don't see a height, but it's on a 160mm diameter base, so it's a big beast. Mind you, for £250 :o it ought to be

It's a bit too anime (and generally freaking huge) for my tastes/uses. I do like the Tau, and would much prefer it if they filled out the infantry sized range rather than making action man sized figures :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 18, 2015, 02:32:15 PM
While its also a bit over the top for me I do feel tau have always been anime inspired. (some say to push into the Asian market) and having a huge freaking robot with guns for arms does fit that style, so they are filling what you could consider a void in tau theme.

Also there are other huge suits on the horizon as well, leaked pages of warhammer vision for November show a walking missile launcher about the same size as that one. No arms, just tons of missiles and a huge shoulder cannon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 18, 2015, 02:52:34 PM
Quote from: zemjw on September 18, 2015, 01:26:26 PM
It's a bit too anime (and generally freaking huge) for my tastes/uses.

Quote from: YPU on September 18, 2015, 02:32:15 PM
While its also a bit over the top for me I do feel tau have always been anime inspired. (some say to push into the Asian market)

Absolutely. No doubt in my mind that the Tau were deliberately made anime-like to appeal to a different market segment that the grimdark/gothic stuff does.

It was no surprised to learn that a gaming buddy of mine who has always had an affinity for the nipponese styled stuff (Mishima in Warzone, Legend of the Five Rings, etc), many years ago, now, sold off his Ultramarines and later bought into Tau big time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 18, 2015, 02:58:31 PM
I think they did a nice job on the Tau.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on September 18, 2015, 03:12:48 PM
Quote from: grant on September 18, 2015, 02:58:31 PM
I think they did a nice job on the Tau.

Definitely, I plan on going back and repainting/updating the Tau I painted as a 12 year old when they first came out so I can use them for Tomorrow's War.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on September 18, 2015, 10:55:34 PM
Awesome Tau release! (I like anime robots) It reminds me of appleseed and Neon Genesis.

Very cool 8)

As for AoS.. Bretonnians... Grumble grumble grumble...

*goes back to painting post apoc shanties and enjoying narrative based gaming through the Pulp Alley ruleset*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on September 19, 2015, 03:36:28 AM
I have to admit, there's a lot to like about the tau, but their dang ships are so blobby and non-angular...also, I don't have the mons for a 40K army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 20, 2015, 11:01:58 PM
Nuck from Dakka. An invester's view of the GW AGM. The GW 'hayturz' have jumped all over the comments section already. I almost pity the poor guy for peeking into Pandora's box. Almost.

http://www.iii.co.uk/news-opinion/richard-beddard/games-workshop-agm%3A-relentless-profit-machine
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on September 21, 2015, 09:09:52 AM
A very interesting read. I though the following was quite enlightening.

 
Quote
The company’s mission statement is “we make the best fantasy miniatures in the world and sell them globally at a profit and we intend to do this forever.”
...
Quote
Games Workshop exists to make models, because that’s what it does well

So there you have it hey, AoS is here to stay, and the fact you can use your detailed models with dice on a table with mates is a happy coincidence.

So they want to reposition the brand to be Tamiya or Gundam?  ???
 ::)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on September 21, 2015, 09:56:34 AM
one thing that really doesn't add up to me.

Warhammer fantasy didn't sell, so to shake things up, they drastically changed the rules.
But since only 20% of their costumers supposedly play games with their models, the rules shouldn't matter. It's models that sell....

Or am I missing something?

Interesting read indeed. Kinda infuriating too, but what to expect?
It doesn't really concern me. I have plenty to play with and I might buy a model when the mood strikes me.

Still, all this shouldn't bug me, yet it does....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 21, 2015, 10:35:27 AM
I... Find that a surprising article for a number of reasons.

I can't help but feel that the chap who wrote the article is (1) doesn't really understand what he's bought into exactly, and (2) his son's response to the half-painted starter game is typical of a lot of GW customers; that is, people who've bought some isolated GW products and then basically abandoned The Hobby altogether.

The first point isn't helped by the strange way that GW sees and explains things, nor by the odd ideas they have about how to run a successful business. I mean, the estimation that only some 20% of their customers game is clearly wrong - phenomena like "Codex-Creep" have been long noted and exploited by GW (to the detriment of their games) in order to sell more/new models, and with only 20% playing (and even only a smaller percentage of those who would want X model for their specific army), it doesn't seem like something they'd bother with... Unless the number of people who play is in fact far higher.

The second point is significant as it highlights that the games are niche, are time-consuming and expensive to pursue, and that there are more accessible (and probably more fun) alternatives.

Anyway, I see that it's finally Chaos' turn to have some more releases for AoS, and that we have two more half-naked chaps at a mere £18 each - the Slaughterpreist and Skullgrinder. I guess it's hard to come up with other roles that Khorne's servants might play besides applying axe-to-face in a very violet and efficient manner - the Slaughterpreist's description sounds rather, erm, wizard-y to me!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on September 21, 2015, 10:59:38 AM
Quote
I guess it's hard to come up with other roles that Khorne's servants might play besides applying axe-to-face in a very violet and efficient manner

Next for AoS; Khorne Face-Axers.

If we go unsubtle, let's go unsubtle....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 21, 2015, 11:41:16 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on September 21, 2015, 10:59:38 AM
Next for AoS; Khorne Face-Axers.

If we go unsubtle, let's go unsubtle....

So basically a Blood  drench human-ish F'axe Machine?

Priest - acapella noisemarine less the armour.


Going back to eyeing up more interesting stuff from other companies - although I did aquire the boxed start AOS set for the collection as such, thats about as far as my AOS collections is going I am afraid

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 22, 2015, 09:13:08 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on September 21, 2015, 09:56:34 AM
one thing that really doesn't add up to me.

Warhammer fantasy didn't sell, so to shake things up, they drastically changed the rules.
But since only 20% of their costumers supposedly play games with their models, the rules shouldn't matter. It's models that sell....

Or am I missing something?

They always used the rules ans a mean to the end of to push minis over the conter, and the rules were mainly there for 2 reasons: 1) Get new customers in - the best way to lure kids to want their models has always been displays of battles with painted minis (most kids want to PLAY with their toys, not just have them sitting on their shelves, after all). 2) Make existing customers want to buy new minis/troop types for thier army/collection.

Warhammer models didn't sell because they got too expensive, and thus ppl played their games with cheaper historical and fantasy minis from alternative companies.

Thus, they needed another rules-sales structure to prevent ppl to get into non-GW models and buy more of their own stuff. They needed to get rid of the all the generic fantasy and semi-historical stuff, as it could be substituted, and they wanted to make existing armies obsolete, so they ditched the world (with the rules, as they were structured for use with the old models), changed aestethics into something 'ip-defendable', and made a ruleset that is the bare backbone for adding limited scenario add-ons which require the purchase of specific limited ed. minis to be played.

I think the lightness with which they ditched the rules after putting decades of man-power into maintaining/revising them is descriptive of how little they care about this part of the business (and, remember, rules can be easily copied/scanned/etc, so what has happened here is effectively a cost-reduction).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 22, 2015, 09:39:44 AM
@ Argonor:

Yes, I agree for the most part, although the model kits are still getting more expensive so I'm not sure how re-setting the system will fix this issue. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 22, 2015, 09:56:45 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on September 22, 2015, 09:39:44 AM
@ Argonor:

Yes, I agree for the most part, although the model kits are still getting more expensive so I'm not sure how re-setting the system will fix this issue. :?

I agree, totally, that their pricing policy should continue to drive existing customers away and deter new from entering.

But, in their optics (at least as given to shareholders), ppl will now buy whatever they bring out, as they cannot get something like it from somewhere else. And theirs ares the best (and only) products out there!  ::)

That's the part that doesn't make sense to thinking people, but, either GW management has succumbed to their own employee-brainwashing, or they are just desperate to prove that their strategy is and always has been right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 22, 2015, 03:59:26 PM
Review of some newly released and upcoming GW computer games - here (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/22/game_workshop_games_just_released_and_in_the_pipeline/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 23, 2015, 10:06:49 AM
Hmm, sadly not much of a review. Parts of it are so perfunctorily descriptive that it seems to be barely more than an adverticle really. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 27, 2015, 11:05:52 PM
I just watched 'Thor:The Dark World' for the first time tonight.

None of the imagery or design was anything like Age of Sigmar.

No sir.

No sir, not a bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 27, 2015, 11:58:09 PM
Quote from: Cubs on September 27, 2015, 11:05:52 PM
I just watched 'Thor:The Dark World' for the first time tonight.

I'm here for you, Cubs. Do you want to talk about what you saw?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on September 28, 2015, 12:24:42 AM
Quote from: Vermis on September 27, 2015, 11:58:09 PM
I'm here for you, Cubs. Do you want to talk about what you saw?

 lol lol lol i can totally see the commonalities between the 4 Page AoS Rules and that awfull,insubstantial Movie that is Thor 2   >:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 28, 2015, 09:38:02 AM
Reviews of the beta of Warhammer end times: Vermintide have been positive, by the accounts I read its both a fun game and keeps to the lore well enough. For those of you who don't know its a horde survival game, much like left for dead, where you try to make it to a particular objective on a map while fighting your way trough hordes and hordes of skaven. The ratmen provide a pretty mice enemy variety without them having to come up with anything new, and they actually appear to be sticking to ecstatics we are used to, more so then the more dubious stuff that came out in the end times line.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 28, 2015, 10:28:56 AM
Quote from: Vermis on September 27, 2015, 11:58:09 PM
I'm here for you, Cubs. Do you want to talk about what you saw?

I feel like someone just stole a couple of hours of my life.

Hold me until I stop shaking.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 28, 2015, 10:36:40 AM
(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120513040623/marvelcinematicuniverse/images/9/96/Thor_Asgard.jpg)

(http://www.nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/elves1.jpg)

(http://www.flickeringmyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/xlir.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 28, 2015, 11:57:11 AM
Verily, dear posters, thou art digressing. Prithee focus on discussing Games Workshop and not the follies of other soulless corporate leviathans.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on September 28, 2015, 02:44:57 PM
Quote from: Argonor on September 22, 2015, 09:13:08 AM
Warhammer models didn't sell because they got too expensive, and thus ppl played their games with cheaper historical and fantasy minis from alternative companies.

That is one way to explain it... but it goes against the pronounced trend away from mass battle games towards skirmish games. Warhammer, expensive or not, was a mass battle game. Take a look at the forums (of any wargaming site) and see how many AARs are being made by folks playing mass battle fantasy games. Hard to find any really. Now look at how many skirmish batreps are being made... in pretty much EVERY category of wargaming. TONS!

Price doesn't explain that. It is a shift in playing preference on a wide scale.

Now I know everyone loves to beat up on AOS, but have you ever looked at the investment you need to put in to play Infinity?  :o The same could be said for Drop Zone Commander or Dystopian Wars (and they aren't even 28mm). Want to do some REAL wargaming (say Napoleonics, for example)... you are going to drop a lot of coin.

Now as a successful business man there isn't a day that does go by when I don't have some guy trying to sell me something that is "the same but cheaper." Do I buy it? Fuck no. The reason is because I manage my businesses based on a long term outlook, not short term "did I make money today." Short term management, on the whole, is a guaranteed loser.

Now GW could have introduced the Stormcast Internals in finecast to test the waters. But they didn't, because that is a short term experiment which is doomed from the start. Instead, they wiped the slate clean and took a long term approach. You can tell it is a long term approach because the minis they are putting out are made in plastic, and that is one hell'va investment.

Now you don't think that GW didn't understand that forums would be filled with hate and trolling for their move? Of course they did. But they did it anyway which shows their vision is long term and any really successful company is run that way.

So ya'll can analysis, spit venom and complain as long as you want. Personally, I think they have made, from a professional viewpoint as a businessman, a pretty awesome move. You might not see the result in the coming weeks or months... but any real businessman knows that when you dramatically change direction, your not looking at weeks or months... you are looking at years.

So... I wouldn't expect GW to walk from AOS any time soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 28, 2015, 03:51:08 PM
Quote from: YPU on September 28, 2015, 09:38:02 AM
The ratmen provide a pretty mice enemy variety

I see what you did there.

(Dark World stuff:  lol )

Quote from: Ray Rivers on September 28, 2015, 02:44:57 PM
That is one way to explain it... but it goes against the pronounced trend away from mass battle games towards skirmish games. Warhammer, expensive or not, was a mass battle game. Take a look at the forums (of any wargaming site) and see how many AARs are being made by folks playing mass battle fantasy games. Hard to find any really.

Over on Dakka, when AoS was threatened and then dropped on the populace, I saw a mass exodus to KoW. Most old WHFB players who piped up, switched to that despite their love of the FB rules and distrust of element-based gaming. Their reason, beyond GW blowing up the old world, and introducing bald core rules with excruciating joke rules for their old factions, was that they were into WHFB for mass battles.

I'll agree, in a way, on one wee tangent. Despite that boost to Mantic, and the heaps of cheaper, non-GW plastic kits, I think 28mm mass battles in general might be winding down just a tad, what with the fall of WAB and now WHFB, and the rise of prices, new =/<15mm ranges, and some pretty good skirmish games. Especially skirmish games hyped up on Kickstarter, attracting a lot of attention and hobby budgets. Not to mention 28mm taking a bit more painting to look good. So not just less financial investment needed (sometimes) but also less hobby and possibly gaming time and effort. (Though I'll happily admit that's based on not much more than idle glances and speculation, and personal preference)

Quote
Price doesn't explain that. It is a shift in playing preference on a wide scale.

Now I know everyone loves to beat up on AOS, but have you ever looked at the investment you need to put in to play Infinity?  :o The same could be said for Drop Zone Commander or Dystopian Wars (and they aren't even 28mm). Want to do some REAL wargaming (say Napoleonics, for example)... you are going to drop a lot of coin.

It must be something other than price. Um... good rules, maybe?

Quote
I'm a businessman

You're not the only one. Not one myself, but I've seen others on Warseer and Dakka who think GW must be taking crazy pills.

As I've said before, it'll be interesting to see the next couple of half-year reports from GW. Will AoS make that downward zigzag on the graph turn up again? Probably. Will it last long? We'll see.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 28, 2015, 04:14:57 PM
Quote from: Vermis on September 28, 2015, 03:51:08 PM
I see what you did there.

Honest to god typo there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on September 28, 2015, 04:39:34 PM
Quote from: Vermis on September 28, 2015, 03:51:08 PM
I'll agree, in a way, on one wee tangent. Despite that boost to Mantic, and the heaps of cheaper, non-GW plastic kits, I think 28mm mass battles in general might be winding down just a tad, what with the fall of WAB and now WHFB, and the rise of prices, new =/<15mm ranges, and some pretty good skirmish games.

A tad? Are you kidding me?

Look, I've been in this hobby for 40 years.

I remember when mass battle historical wargaming in both 15 and 25 mm was the norm. Fantasy was played by D&D dudes smoking dope in the other room... without miniatures.

I've played Napoleonic, ACW and ancients games with thousands of minis on the table... that is how I started. I've probably thrown away more miniatures than a lot of folks on this forum have ever owned. If folks want to play KoW... cool, I truly hope they have fun.

But the one undeniable truth is that those bad old days when wargaming was pretty much nothing but mass battles... they are gone.

Everybody complains that GW doesn't listen to their fans. But their fans, indeed, almost the entire wargaming community have fled mass battle gaming. Seems to me they are screaming "We want to play skirmish games!"

And so GW changed course. And that course is a long term commitment to skirmish gaming, the kind that folks are screaming for.

Now you can bitter about the price, the rules, the OTT mini's, la de da... it's all peanut bull ka ka.  From my perspective, this is a huge change by GW one which requires a long term vision, a large investment and a commitment to give the people what they want... a skirmish game with top notch miniatures. Are there kinks? Sure... but once again, those are short term problems, one's that will get fixed as long as they keep their eye on the long term ball.

Whether it will work out... have no idea. But one thing is for sure, as a businessman, who for a long time hasn't bought crap from GW, I can sum up my view of the company based on what they have done with one word: respect. And because of it, I am supporting them with my wallet.

Now please do continue sniping... you know it makes you feel better.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on September 28, 2015, 07:09:11 PM
I'm not really sure about skirmish vs Battles.

I play 10mm battle games and 28 mm skirmish : I like both.

It is the price tag the problem.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 28, 2015, 07:10:49 PM
I gave up all my mass games some years ago as well. More than 30 or 40 minis is a daunting project now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duke Donald on September 28, 2015, 09:50:29 PM
Given the success of "ultra-skirmish" games (5-20 minis a side) and miniature boardgames, there is definitely a move towards games that can be played with a lower investment in time (and money). Besides, I feel that the trend towards games with fewer individually based miniatures has also been driven by the increase in quality (and cost) of miniatures over the last decades. Mediocre sculpts only look good when massed, whereas beautiful minis shine when individually based.

Thus, I agree that GW was right to develop a fantasy game with better scalability, where essentially any collection of random minis can be used as a viable force. I further agree that bold decisions and sticking to long-term plans can be part of a sound business strategy. However, antagonising the majority of your existing customers doesn't strike me as the pinnacle of business acumen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 28, 2015, 10:04:48 PM
Yeah, I think skirmish was the way to go (or rather go back) but that didn't have to come with all the rest of the nonsense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 28, 2015, 10:51:08 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on September 28, 2015, 02:44:57 PM
Price doesn't explain that. It is a shift in playing preference on a wide scale.

Yes, it does. Smaller games = less minis = lower cost. The more expensive it gets to play the 'mainstream' mass games, the faster the trickle into the cheaper gaming solutions.

As for Infinity, as I understand it, it is also primarily a skirmish game, so even if the price of individual minis is rather steep, you don't need more than half a dozen to play.

I think the main reason for more skirmish games than mass games being featured on the forums is not that noone plays mass games, but they are played less frequently because a) it takes much more time to set up and play mass games, b) it takes much more time to ready/prepare new units for mass games (skirmish games need maybe 1 or 2 new minis painted, whereas mass games need full units (or even brigades/divisions) to make a change/update, c) many more individuals today play wargames than when I started out (also nearly 40 years ago), and the constant bombardment of new skirmish rulesets, combined with the relatively low entry cost for playing such games, means that there is always something new and shiny to try out, and d) I think making AARs for smaller, more narrative games, where you follow the merits of named individuals, is more fun and compelling than reporting yet another defeat at Waterloo; maybe other gamers see it the same way.

But to say they are all but not existing is a bit of an exaggeration; didn't take me 2 minutes to find one posted here a mere 2 days ago, and I think that anyone regularily browsing this forum will have seen a lot of beautiful arrays of opposing armies. There has been a general shift from 28mm mass gaming towards smaller sized minis (again PRICE, and thus cost, combined with the time/effort needed to put decently sized armies on the table plays a considerable role in decision-making), but I don't see mass battle games being much less popular these days than, say, 20 years ago. As already stated, my impression is that here in Denmark MORE people play mass games than back then, but as miniature wargaming has become more widely accessible, it may still be the smaller part of all gamers who do them, thus the seemingly infrequent posting of battles.

I don't think anyone here denies that GW is thinking long-term, I just doubt they'll succeed, given their price-strategy. I own quite a bunch of GW stuff, loved their style, but at a certain point the cost/benefit just did not add up any more.

Quote from: Duke Donald on September 28, 2015, 09:50:29 PM
Thus, I agree that GW was right to develop a fantasy game with better scalability, where essentially any collection of random minis can be used as a viable force.

This is exactly what they are trying to avoid, turning the aestaethics into something unmistakably GW, so it will be difficult to get lookalikes that cannot be cleansed and burned by legal dept. Which is understandable, but also makes the game subject to taste-decisions. Some like the new aestaethics, and are willing to pay hard cash to play the game, but will they, in the end, prove to be sufficiently numerous (AND loyal), when there is SO many alternative offerings out there?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 29, 2015, 01:39:33 AM
Quote from: Cubs on September 28, 2015, 10:04:48 PM
Yeah, I think skirmish was the way to go (or rather go back) but that didn't have to come with all the rest of the nonsense.

Agreed. They killed Warhammer and replaced it with a turd floating in a pool of random gamingness.

Better to have not even done aos at all, just killed the line like it was specialist.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 29, 2015, 04:32:54 AM
I think Argonor has it when he pretty much states that mass-battle gaming hasn't left us, it's just been scaled down to the smaller sizes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on September 29, 2015, 07:39:42 AM
Warhammer only became a really big battle game in 8th edition when huge units were almost required to be useful. Earlier editions saw you able to play battles more akin to large skirmishes. I've seen Lion Rampant games with armies the size of say, 6th edition Warhammer ones.

8th edition jumping to huge core unit sizes while GW simultaneously halved the core troop box contents and raised the prices is definitely a major factor in many people jumping ship on Warhammer fantasy.

Ray, you like AoS and that's great, but those of us who don't aren't necessarily bitter folks or haters who can't see the genius in GW's plan. If I hated GW I would forget about them. Tis my love of the Old World that kept me around "moaning" for so long (which is why we have this thread in a way). No sniping intended.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on September 29, 2015, 07:44:43 AM
I would love to play some massed fantasy battles, but I have yet to find a set of rules I like. I think Hail Ceasar is what comes closest. But they are hardly fantasy..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 29, 2015, 10:31:54 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on September 29, 2015, 07:44:43 AM
I think Hail Ceasar is what comes closest. But they are hardly fantasy..

The rules are based on Warmaster aren't they? I haven't played either game, so this is very much second hand speculation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mahwell skel on September 29, 2015, 11:43:04 AM
Quote from: Duke Donald on September 28, 2015, 09:50:29 PM
there is definitely a move towards games that can be played with a lower investment in time (and money).

I think time is the factor. Most people want something they can play start to finish in a couple of hours. Something that will paint in a couple of hours a night, not a massive time investment that eats up free time without the same reward.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: A Lot of Gaul on September 29, 2015, 11:46:28 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on September 29, 2015, 07:44:43 AM
I would love to play some massed fantasy battles, but I have yet to find a set of rules I like. I think Hail Ceasar is what comes closest. But they are hardly fantasy..

Quote from: Cubs on September 29, 2015, 10:31:54 AM
The rules are based on Warmaster aren't they? I haven't played either game, so this is very much second hand speculation.

The Hail Caesar rules were indeed developed from Warmaster, via Warmaster Ancients > Black Powder > Hail Caesar.

By the way, there is also a free downloadable set of fantasy mods for Hail Caesar, entitled 'Shadow Storm,' which apparently has received the blessing of the HC author: http://adyswargamesden.com/category/shadow-storm/ (http://adyswargamesden.com/category/shadow-storm/)

@Dr. Zombie - I haven't played the HC fantasy mod myself, but you may want to consider giving it a go.

Cheers,
Scott
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 29, 2015, 12:05:24 PM
Scott beat me to it  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 29, 2015, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on September 28, 2015, 04:39:34 PM
Look, I've been in this hobby for 40 years.

Now please do continue sniping... you know it makes you feel better.  ;)

 ::) It hasn't mellowed you, then. I've only been in the hobby about 15; but for most of those, almost all I've seen of GW's public face and glimpses of it's private one shows how little they 'respect' their market and how little they have to respect in turn. I could list all the big and little things I can't respect, but I'd be here all day and I've things to do.

I'm hardly blameless when it comes to playing nice here, Ray, but this topic is starting to feel like... certain other forums. It's beginning to feel pointless to explain to you why some of us dislike GW and their games when you're so adamant in your view. (I did play some of them for a few years! As Gibby says, it's our first-hand knowledge and experience of GW that fuels our 'whining'.) And I'm beginning to wonder why you try so hard to convince us that AoS is great, by shooting barbs and insults at us.

So, yeah, I want me LAF feeling back. I'm stepping away from this tangent.

Quote from: FramFramson on September 29, 2015, 04:32:54 AM
I think Argonor has it when he pretty much states that mass-battle gaming hasn't left us, it's just been scaled down to the smaller sizes.

Quote from: Vermis on September 28, 2015, 03:51:08 PM
I think 28mm mass battles in general might be winding down just a tad, what with the fall of WAB and now WHFB, and the rise of prices, new =/<15mm ranges, and some pretty good skirmish games.

;) I should've bolded to begin with.

Mind you, Argonor's post's a great 'un, put much better! I can't disagree with any of it.

Quote from: Dr. Zombie on September 29, 2015, 07:44:43 AM
I would love to play some massed fantasy battles, but I have yet to find a set of rules I like. I think Hail Ceasar is what comes closest. But they are hardly fantasy..

Cubs is right, but did you see Ady's Shadow Storm HC-fantasy expansion?

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=80155.0

Edit: ninja'd! Twice!

If it's not going too far off-topic, what rulesets have you looked at?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on September 29, 2015, 02:26:36 PM
Well, if I insulted anyone you can be assured it wasn't intentional.

But when I see folks post crap like this in a normal thread:

Quote
the miniatures are so wildly over-the-top though I can't even see what's going on, or who is who.

It just pisses me off...  >:(

We all have a right to an opinion, and let us not forget that THIS thread was originally started to let folks vent against GW, but when that attitude starts seeping into normal threads, then it is darn "un-LAF like" as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on September 29, 2015, 02:51:29 PM
But it's true.

From a technical point of view, the GW sprues are simply brilliant. For me it's a pleasure in itself just watching them and see how they've managed to "cut" the mini to avoid undercuts.
Aesthetics is a very different matter.
I was a Chaos collector and player for years, massing an army of 10.000+ points. But from seventh or eight edition I feel pretty much all chaos minis are just little else that an amalgamation of skulls and spikes, arranged in a humanoid shape.
For over-the-topness, well, I'd say that the latest rat ogre with a machine gun coming out of his chest rightully fits the bill. Or the latest stormcast mega-lord, which just copies the design of the new Nagash (i.e. big guy floating supported by eldritch spirits or energy).

But that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on September 29, 2015, 03:06:36 PM
Quote from: Vermis on September 29, 2015, 12:18:54 PM
It hasn't mellowed you, then.

Of course not... I'm passionate about miniatures.

And I really like the idea of a Roman-Greco Fantasy world. Nope, it's not your Warhammer of the past it is a totally differently themed fantasy product.

And to be quite honest, I would defend just about ANY miniatures manufacturer (except the folks who sold me that really crappy Sedition Wars thing..  ;)). Did you see some of the posts on the Prodos thread... horrible really.

Every business has it's own unique problems. Miniatures companies have it pretty difficult being such a niche market. Why do folks get so viral... it's so counterproductive, I just can't understand it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on September 29, 2015, 03:11:33 PM
Thought I should mention that I've bought three of those winged sigmarines to be used as Diablo-inspired archangels.
I don't like most of GW releases, but there are a few true gems here and there (specially those not covered, literally, in WH/AoS iconography).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 29, 2015, 07:43:23 PM
Quote from: Scurv on September 28, 2015, 09:26:25 PM
my traction wars stuff is turning into mass battle. The background is so good though its worth the hassle of lots of figs.  lol


will we see it on here?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on September 29, 2015, 10:55:29 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on September 28, 2015, 02:44:57 PM
That is one way to explain it... but it goes against the pronounced trend away from mass battle games towards skirmish games. Warhammer, expensive or not, was a mass battle game. Take a look at the forums (of any wargaming site) and see how many AARs are being made by folks playing mass battle fantasy games. Hard to find any really. Now look at how many skirmish batreps are being made... in pretty much EVERY category of wargaming. TONS!

Price doesn't explain that. It is a shift in playing preference on a wide scale.

Now I know everyone loves to beat up on AOS, but have you ever looked at the investment you need to put in to play Infinity?  :o The same could be said for Drop Zone Commander or Dystopian Wars (and they aren't even 28mm). Want to do some REAL wargaming (say Napoleonics, for example)... you are going to drop a lot of coin.

Now as a successful business man there isn't a day that does go by when I don't have some guy trying to sell me something that is "the same but cheaper." Do I buy it? Fuck no. The reason is because I manage my businesses based on a long term outlook, not short term "did I make money today." Short term management, on the whole, is a guaranteed loser.

Now GW could have introduced the Stormcast Internals in finecast to test the waters. But they didn't, because that is a short term experiment which is doomed from the start. Instead, they wiped the slate clean and took a long term approach. You can tell it is a long term approach because the minis they are putting out are made in plastic, and that is one hell'va investment.

Now you don't think that GW didn't understand that forums would be filled with hate and trolling for their move? Of course they did. But they did it anyway which shows their vision is long term and any really successful company is run that way.

So ya'll can analysis, spit venom and complain as long as you want. Personally, I think they have made, from a professional viewpoint as a businessman, a pretty awesome move. You might not see the result in the coming weeks or months... but any real businessman knows that when you dramatically change direction, your not looking at weeks or months... you are looking at years.

So... I wouldn't expect GW to walk from AOS any time soon.

I'm sure that's what the Coca Cola execs were telling themselves when they made their switch back in the 80's.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 29, 2015, 11:36:25 PM
So... Warhammer Classic soonish?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 30, 2015, 07:36:09 AM
Makes me thing if it isn't all some big marketing ploy. They know from previous experience what cancelling a game does. (specialist games) Suddenly everybody wanted to play it, even if sales might have been low before.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on September 30, 2015, 08:45:07 AM
@ YPU:

I think the ill-will the scrapping of WHFB has generated, together with GW's obvious desire for wholly-owned IP, makes this unlikely.

Also, I don't think current interest in Specialist Games is greater than at any point when it was properly supported by GW - at most, it's largely the same people with the same stuff from back in the day!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 30, 2015, 10:44:24 AM
Oldhammer is growing ever more popular though and GW, Foundry, Grenadier and Ral Partha are all re-releasing a lot of the old sculpts. Could be worth them making a small investment to dip their toe into it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on September 30, 2015, 01:56:33 PM
Quote from: Cubs on September 30, 2015, 10:44:24 AM
Oldhammer is growing ever more popular though and GW, Foundry, Grenadier and Ral Partha are all re-releasing a lot of the old sculpts.

Would be brilliant. And stop the Oldhammer folks asking - and paying - top dollar for old lead. I feel everybody should be able to hold and caress the stuff it all started without having to sell a kidney or two...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 30, 2015, 04:25:18 PM
Obviously it's not going to be a continually regenerating source of one-off 'youth' income like GW's previous business models, but should be a nice and steady trickle of money.

They just need to cast up some of their old models, maybe remake the moulds (which wouldn't be cheap), but with all the design, sculpting and game system already done, the expense wouldn't be too extreme and they know the market is ready and waiting to spend money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on September 30, 2015, 04:39:13 PM
The odd thing about AoS, to me, is that it appears to be a gamble on the background proving similarly popular to that of 40K. Because the troop types are so "out there", it's unlikely to appeal to people who like the "pathetic aesthetic" (great blog on that here (http://drbargle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-old-school-is-pathetic-rant.html)) that used to characterise Warhammer (and many other fantasy games).

On the reissue of old models: I've long wondered why GW doesn't take a huge bite out of other miniature manufactures' pie by doing a completely IP-free range of "generics". Suppose GW invested in creating three customisable boxes of plastics: for example, generic orcs, generic adventurers and generic goblins (thus assuming a D&Dish, rather than Tolkienesque take, or they'd be the same thing as the orcs!).

Each box might be on the lines of the old Fantasy Tribe ranges, except that the head and weapon swapping would be done by customers rather than sculptors. The figures would be both war-game and RPG-compatible, with varied weapons and non-military accoutrements. And the tone would be one of "realism" - so, gangly, pot-bellied orcs like GW used to do, rather than steroidal, cartoony giant apes, and properly scaled weapons. The orcs could even have a pig-faced option for full D&D/old-school appeal. Poses might be broadly fixed (with a number of different ones in the box), but hands/weapons/heads/cloaks/backpacks, etc., would all be variable. The old C15 Armoured Orcs would be an ideal starting point for inspiration (or even direct reworking).

If these were done well (along the Frostgrave soldiers line, but with even more mainstream, generic appeal), with the full talents of the GW studio, can anyone imagine them not selling extraordinarily well? GW could produce AoS stats for them, but explicitly sell them for use with any or all fantasy games - just like the company used to.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 30, 2015, 05:24:09 PM
I get your point Hobgoblin, as I prefer the "pathetic aesthetic" over the "shock and awe" approach of AoS. Oh well, as long as they don't send shocktroopers on raids to incinerate the old books and models, I can still play just the kind of fantasy I want.

It seems like a sound decision to do high-quality generics, but it would require GW acknowledging that there is (war)gaming outside of "The GW Hobby", something they have been notoriously unwilling to admit in the past decade or so... Plus, generics can't be IP-locked.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 30, 2015, 08:04:02 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on September 30, 2015, 01:56:33 PM
Would be brilliant. And stop the Oldhammer folks asking - and paying - top dollar for old lead. I feel everybody should be able to hold and caress the stuff it all started without having to sell a kidney or two...  ;)

Quote from: Cubs on September 30, 2015, 04:25:18 PM
Obviously it's not going to be a continually regenerating source of one-off 'youth' income like GW's previous business models, but should be a nice and steady trickle of money.

They just need to cast up some of their old models, maybe remake the moulds (which wouldn't be cheap), but with all the design, sculpting and game system already done, the expense wouldn't be too extreme and they know the market is ready and waiting to spend money.

I can appreciate the sentiment, but I'd say GW's re-offered vintage minis are more in their current remit as a self-declared 'miniatures for collectors' business, than a token to the oldhammer set. (Especially at those prices!) Lest we forget they're terrified of their own games being 'cannibalised' by... their own games.

Quote from: Hobgoblin on September 30, 2015, 04:39:13 PM
The odd thing about AoS, to me, is that it appears to be a gamble on the background proving similarly popular to that of 40K. Because the troop types are so "out there", it's unlikely to appeal to people who like the "pathetic aesthetic" (great blog on that here (http://drbargle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-old-school-is-pathetic-rant.html)) that used to characterise Warhammer (and many other fantasy games).

'Pathetic aesthetic'. lol  I like that!

I know what you mean though. The thing I liked about Warhammer, when I found it in 6th ed, was... not so much the overbearing 'grimdark' stuff (though that was sometimes fun) but the idea of armies of normal humans, almost plucked out of historical armies and with only a few concessions to (dangerous, difficult-to-handle) magic, struggling against all these other weirdoes and creepers in the world - and those weirdoes and creepers were almost in the same boat, themselves. Compared to other bright, shiny, over-the-top, magic-did-it, giant-shoulder-pads-and-surfboard-sword settings. The World of Warcraft effect, or exXxtreme fantasy as I call it. Although I think the shot in the arm to their plastic production capabilities was a good thing in itself, I was pretty disappointed to see GW use it to put out more and more big, wacky things, turning their world into that kind of setting. (I still wonder if the high elf skycutter is a fever dream I'm having) And then surrender to it completely, with AoS.

And see some of their competitors and hangers-on follow suit.

Quote
On the reissue of old models: I've long wondered why GW doesn't take a huge bite out of other miniature manufactures' pie by doing a completely IP-free range of "generics".

Personally, I think they were pretty good at that with some of their fantasy races, up until the end - different flavours of elves, skaven, undead, lizardmen if you didn't mind the mesoamerican bit, dwarfs if you didn't mind the comedy-butterball-with-no-knees bit, etc. Only problem was affording very much of it...

Quote from: DrBargle
... the laughable labelling of material designed to titillate teenagers as 'mature'.

Oh, that. Very much that. I've seen the spikeskullblood tone of GW minis and imagery lauded as proof that it's for 'mature' older gamers, without any hint of a clue that it might be intended to appeal to kids with a burgeoning idea of what's 'badass' and 'grown up', and too many hormones. It reminds me of that 'childish things' quote by C S Lewis: the full quote.

Quote
“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on October 01, 2015, 01:33:28 PM
Quote
Look, I've been in this hobby for 40 years.

Quote
I've only been in the hobby about 15;

Pretty certain that would put you both outside their target demographic.  It's like asking us about One Direction - you may like it, you probably won't, and it makes not one bit of difference to GW/OD.

JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 01, 2015, 02:18:19 PM
Actually, physical age and years of experience I don't think should be applicable to barring us from being the target demographic.

After all its a niche fantasy market after all.

Don't think GW/OD care either as long as they get paid.

In fact I don't think I care either as long as I get paid. But thats unrelated

 :D



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on October 01, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. ;)

It's just that the plot in GW's fairy tales isn't improving.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 01, 2015, 09:45:56 PM
Quote from: Vermis on October 01, 2015, 07:48:16 PM
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. ;)

Wiser words have never been quoted.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on October 01, 2015, 10:01:55 PM
An ex of mine broke up with me and, in the final row he ranted about my "childish hobbies that you don't even have the decency to be ashamed of". He was a proper idiot.

But even I think Age of Sigmar is a bit too OTT for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 01, 2015, 10:30:53 PM
Sounds like a proper idiot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on October 01, 2015, 11:58:29 PM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on October 01, 2015, 10:01:55 PM
An ex of mine broke up with me and, in the final row he ranted about my "childish hobbies that you don't even have the decency to be ashamed of". He was a proper idiot.

But even I think Age of Sigmar is a bit too OTT for me.

Bah, a little madness now and then is relished by the wisest men!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 02, 2015, 08:33:55 AM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on October 01, 2015, 10:01:55 PM
An ex of mine broke up with me and, in the final row he ranted about my "childish hobbies that you don't even have the decency to be ashamed of". He was a proper idiot.

But even I think Age of Sigmar is a bit too OTT for me.

Very accurate.

Although I suspect he still is a proper idiot. That rarely gets better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on October 02, 2015, 11:18:17 AM
Reading Phil Sabin's Simulating War at the moment, and he points out that all three of the words "Miniature", "War" and "Game" have negative connotations to a wide range of people.

Sod 'em, frankly.  I'm 47 and I've been to a One Direction gig too :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 02, 2015, 11:53:15 AM
Still all that aside, and the OTT of the current offering of GW branded Fantasy, its really no more OTT than a lot of the 40K stuff has been for a long time - bigger, bigger weapons, bigger, bigger etc,

Such as  things that cost a lot of pounds each and float about on tendrils of energy..  etc. Nothing much new there. Necron whatsits etc

I am kind of happy to have the base box set of AOS, as I can think of some alternative uses of the Sigma's,  mainly because they are OTT and good for an Angelic hosts/avatars of Gods thing, and if someone want's its there to come off the shelf for a game or two over drinks or something.

I won't be likely to be spending more on the range, but respect to some of the output of other  LAF members, there are some nicely painted up ones being shown here.

 

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 02, 2015, 01:31:26 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on October 02, 2015, 08:33:55 AM
Very accurate.

Although I suspect he still is a proper idiot. That rarely gets better.

I married a psychiatrist.  She's no gamer but I can get her to play the occasional board game and she is able to rationalize and support my hobbies....even if she still looks at my piles and piles of lead with shock and disbelief as how much I actually have.  I love that meme saying, "When I die I hope my wife does not sell my collection for what i told her I paid for it!" LOL
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 02, 2015, 09:48:22 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on October 02, 2015, 01:31:26 PM
I married a psychiatrist.  She's no gamer but I can get her to play the occasional board game and she is able to rationalize and support my hobbies....even if she still looks at my piles and piles of lead with shock and disbelief as how much I actually have.  I love that meme saying, "When I die I hope my wife does not sell my collection for what i told her I paid for it!" LOL
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on October 03, 2015, 01:13:23 PM
I have to admit I rather like the new Tau model, the Stormsurge.
Too big for gaming, too expensive, over the top, but it's an anime beauty. I can see all those rockets and missiles streaking away simultaneously on impossible trajectories trailing streams of smoke.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 03, 2015, 08:18:22 PM
I clicked on the newsletter link, saw £270 pounds, went "what the..." then noticed that was for the mobile assault force and it's "only" £90 for a single model

Wonder if they did that on purpose, to make it seem less outrageous when you realise the real price lol (just kidding by the way, in case any fanbois are frothing at the mouth at my audacity and gw hateyness ;D). I do like the model, but way too big and waaay toooo expensive. I don't actually see a size, but it's on a 170mm oval base, so looks to be at least 200mm tall.

Also so far beyond my vehicle modelling skills that it's just not funny  :'(

link - http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/KV128-Stormsurge
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 03, 2015, 08:46:17 PM
GW's become so bonkers nothing surprises me any longer.  lol

I only have one GW model left in my entire hobby room: a Cave Troll with which I won a painting award many years ago. I have no books, no models, nothing GW.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 03, 2015, 08:53:25 PM
To be honest the spindly feet and ankles on Tau mechs always drive em crazy, though I get that they're supposed to be a scaled up version of a regular Tau person.

If I were building a Tau army and needed heavy mechs, I would probably just buy a bunch of actual Japanese mecha kits and kitbash 'em a bit to get a Tau look.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on October 03, 2015, 11:36:03 PM
£90.... I just purchased a small town for that amount (Sarissa Old West range).

Well, it's an impressive model, but how often will you get it on the table?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 04, 2015, 03:25:48 AM
Yeah its a cool model. I quite like the look of having the drivers in the open cockpit (although impractical when you think about it) But I'd have more fun doing what Fram said and kitbashing from a dozen mecha kits and making a few with bits to spare.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 04, 2015, 03:36:11 AM
Excellent - 40k clearly needs more game-breaking large models.  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on October 04, 2015, 03:09:20 PM
I have to be honest... I think it's an awesome model! Totally useless as a gaming piece, but man, if I had the talent to paint it well enough I'd buy one to have on display! Maybe GW's current frontpage and its spinning animation are making it look extra cool to me, but still, it's good!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on October 04, 2015, 04:48:09 PM
It looks really cool. But then again I am a sucker for mechs that dont have arms but missile battries instead. Very nice details as well.
And its a Tau so the only game is going to break is the game of the wallet. What an price lol. You could buy an ok bicycle for that price.. Insane.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 04, 2015, 04:56:04 PM
Quote from: Knightofspades on October 04, 2015, 04:48:09 PM
What an price lol. You could buy an ok bicycle for that price.. Insane.



 o_o lol
That puts it into perspective eh?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on October 05, 2015, 02:34:20 AM
90 Pounds is a lot...

but there is this!
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Tau-Manta

630mm/25 inches long x 860mm/34 inches in wingspan.  o_o

(http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99590113031_TauManta01.jpg)

(http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99590113031_TauManta07.jpg)

I actually like it. It would make a great WWW German Gotha super bomber. Pity the price, $989 Pounds!

Who would game with it? It could only be an objective marker in a giant game. :/

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on October 05, 2015, 02:48:03 AM
Dude, you could play a game ON that thing! No need for more table space.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr.Falkenhayn on October 05, 2015, 03:07:18 AM
yeah i've seen that Flyer at a local Tourney  ::) Mind you the Model isn't as Big as the Price Tag suggests  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on October 05, 2015, 03:57:59 AM
I know a guy who bought it some years ago when he got a tax refund.

I'm still mentally shaking my head in disbelief...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on October 05, 2015, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: Argonor on October 05, 2015, 03:57:59 AM
I know a guy who bought it some years ago when he got a tax refund.

I'm still mentally shaking my head in disbelief...

WOW!!  :o How did he manage to claim so much back ???!!! *shakes head in disbelief* Some people know really good accountants.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on October 05, 2015, 12:24:12 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on October 05, 2015, 07:37:19 AM
WOW!!  :o How did he manage to claim so much back ???!!! *shakes head in disbelief* Some people know really good accountants.

Cheers
Matt

Not really, we got the equivalent of £3,000 back last year; the Danish tax system rips us off if we're not constantly vigilant about getting all our deductions right  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 05, 2015, 07:51:56 PM
Wow. I got a mighty $1.36 back last year(or very close) a few years back I had to pay 28c.  ::)
Oh and to keep it on topic. It was not enough to buy any GW gear, then again it  didn't buy anything mini related.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 05, 2015, 09:12:10 PM
Quote from: beefcake on October 05, 2015, 07:51:56 PM
a few years back I had to pay 28c.  ::)

Pffffhahaha.

Over here, if it's less than a dollar either way they just call it square (because processing costs would exceed the value of the money).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on October 05, 2015, 09:45:37 PM
Quote from: Argonor on October 05, 2015, 12:24:12 PM
Not really, we got the equivalent of £3,000 back last year; the Danish tax system rips us off if we're not constantly vigilant about getting all our deductions right  lol

Well one year on hobby products isn't too bad then! Hahaha
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 05, 2015, 09:55:18 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on October 05, 2015, 09:12:10 PM
Pffffhahaha.

Over here, if it's less than a dollar either way they just call it square (because processing costs would exceed the value of the money).
Tell me about it. The cost of postage was about 40c (after bulk discounts I assume) let alone costs for processing, printing etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 23, 2015, 08:27:56 AM
If anyone is interested. Total War Warhammer is now available for pre-purchase.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/364360/?snr=1_620_4__45
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 23, 2015, 09:48:00 PM
Talking bout digital format GW, did anybody mention yet that apparently a Dark Future game is in the works also?

http://www.darkfuture.info/ (http://www.darkfuture.info/)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on October 24, 2015, 10:36:46 AM
So now they want our input.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXfH4aU7P0w

Granted, only on which project they should make tutorials for an advent calender, but this is the first time in a long time I remember them reaching out.
Though I'm sure I pitty who-ever's gonna be in charge of sifting through all that mail. I doubt it'll be all on topic.

Don't care much for the tutorials. They're fine for beginners and the special paint range was interesting, but otherwise, they are not for me.
That said, I do think plenty of people do benefit from them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on October 26, 2015, 03:37:14 PM
WH30K Horus Heresy - Betrayal at Calth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5p9AbpNJLk&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 28, 2015, 07:10:02 AM
They were going for dark but ended up with something like a Monty Python trailer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on October 28, 2015, 07:43:00 AM
Quote from: beefcake on October 28, 2015, 07:10:02 AM
They were going for dark but ended up with something like a Monty Python trailer.
And now for something completely different.

Well, not so much.

And it was John Cleese's birthday yesterday.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 28, 2015, 07:49:10 AM
Hmm, Ultramarines in another starter box? How rare!

I wonder if we'll see 40k rules for this set (seems likely) or a 4-page ruleset for Age Of The Emperor And Chums (always possible)?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 29, 2015, 11:46:36 AM
Pictures and box contents of the new Horus Heresy 30K game over at the dice and brush blog at the moment.

Looks like it's another stand alone board game type deal, with 38 minis in the box

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 29, 2015, 11:55:00 AM
Eh, so another "Limited Edition" bullshit set then?

Shame, as the models do look pretty fab if I'm being honest.   :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 29, 2015, 01:36:29 PM
Very curious what's up with the rules and hex boards. Not going to spend my money on it, I'm sure tough.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on October 29, 2015, 02:42:22 PM
No. Like to try the game once but I cannot imagine myself having to clip and glue myself trough many sprues and bits in order to start a board game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 29, 2015, 02:49:37 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on October 29, 2015, 02:42:22 PM
No. Like to try the game once but I cannot imagine myself having to clip and glue myself trough many sprues and bits in order to start a board game.
My favoured part.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 29, 2015, 02:58:06 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on October 29, 2015, 02:42:22 PM
[...] I cannot imagine myself having to clip and glue myself trough many sprues and bits in order to start a board game.

That they are "full" sprues rather than "starter box" sprues indicates that these kits aren't specifically designed for the boardgame; rather the boardgame (and its no doubt "Limited Edition" status) is purely a vehicle to sell a big wodge of models quickly before the year-end, and I fully expect to see these kits released again separately later on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on October 29, 2015, 03:13:48 PM
I feel too lazy to even ask for a link to the blog. I'll just assume they look like space marines.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on October 29, 2015, 02:58:06 PM
That they are "full" sprues rather than "starter box" sprues indicates that these kits aren't specifically designed for the boardgame; rather the boardgame (and its no doubt "Limited Edition" status) is purely a vehicle to sell a big wodge of models quickly before the year-end, and I fully expect to see these kits released again separately later on.

Aye. I'd hazard that these'll get snapped up for people's FW 30K games anyway, as opposed to whatever rules GW stuff in this box. (Roll a d6. If you get 4 or more that means you win and you're the best! Yaay!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on October 29, 2015, 05:34:56 PM
Here you go Vermis:

http://diceandbrush.blogspot.com

I might go for the box, just to get beaky marines and those studded shoulder pads :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on October 30, 2015, 05:50:36 PM
Quote from: Vermis on October 29, 2015, 03:13:48 PM
Aye. I'd hazard that these'll get snapped up for people's FW 30K games anyway, as opposed to whatever rules GW stuff in this box. (Roll a d6. If you get 4 or more that means you win and you're the best! Yaay!)

HAH this made me chuckle a lot.

The miniatures do look good although it depends on pricing for me as will no doubt sell half of them myself :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on October 30, 2015, 08:48:09 PM
But it's just a box of space marines with a new rule set.

Sorry it's obviously two completely different teams, one is blue and one is red.  :?

I have missed something. What is this 30K rubbish? They are 40k no?

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on October 30, 2015, 08:58:26 PM
You might have heard it referred to as the Horus Heresy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 30, 2015, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on October 30, 2015, 08:48:09 PM
But it's just a box of space marines with a new rule set.

Sorry it's obviously two completely different teams, one is blue and one is red.  :?

I have missed something. What is this 30K rubbish? They are 40k no?

Cheers
Matt

Horrus heresy, which happened around 40K was the time that half the space marines turned to chaos, previously unknown to the imperium of man. Many 40K novels are set at that time and there are a number of fans who build their armies to match the gear that would have been available at that time, rather then "current"

So basically they are "historic" space marines. with a matching price probably.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 30, 2015, 09:50:13 PM
Quote from: YPU on October 30, 2015, 08:58:55 PM
Horrus heresy, which happened around 40K was the time that half the space marines turned to chaos, previously unknown to the imperium of man. Many 40K novels are set at that time and there are a number of fans who build their armies to match the gear that would have been available at that time, rather then "current"

So basically they are "historic" space marines. with a matching price probably.

Wellll, they are 10 thousand years in the past, somewhere between sigmar in the grim dark pre-historic "there is only war! and the modern "there is only War!" of the grim dark far flung future.. so that makes them middle ancient, the new releases must be "there is only War! Nearly!" grim dark just after the lights are not out yet of the golden something or other, so therefore, they must be modern antiques, and the price should reflect that by being more.

Yup makes perfect sense, put the prices up as they are limited edition, and when they go on general release as something not limited edition put it up again.

I can see soon the five man squads being 1 man squads but they have multiple personality disorders due to "grim-dark there is only war!" traumer/stuff, so counts as five... on the table - you will have to roll an extra dice to see who's there when its your turn... Roll a 6 oh..

Quote from: Scurv on October 30, 2015, 09:18:56 PM
interesting to note that the GW thread is getting less and less hits and it is not I suspect because they are doing it right.

I am sure they are ditching minis for computer games


I agree, will take a while but virtual figures are cheaper to produce than real ones..? although they will likely reduce the polygons or something per character at some point and increase the pricing once they get into the full swing of it. or something like that.

Still, they look nice  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 31, 2015, 01:26:43 AM
Yeah. Why can't we just buy a game and have the game now rather than having to buy extra stuff to make the game complete.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on October 31, 2015, 09:17:11 AM
Quote from: beefcake on October 31, 2015, 01:26:43 AM
Yeah. Why can't we just buy a game and have the game now rather than having to buy extra stuff to make the game complete.

Third edition 40k called, it likes your style... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on October 31, 2015, 09:20:52 AM
Quote from: pocoloco on October 29, 2015, 05:34:56 PM
I might go for the box, just to get beaky marines and those studded shoulder pads :)

They're not beaky helmets, but the "stormtrooper" style ones.  You could convert easily enough - plenty of beaky heads on eBay.  For now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on October 31, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
Been reading up on the new lore for the lizardmen seraphon. Good news is that they're still cold-blooded badasses. The bad news is that some of the units have 'star' tacked onto their names for no apparent reason, nearly all infantry are magical constructs or something and instead of fighting off the forces of chaos with nothing but rocks, everyone has magic weapons. Why even that last one?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 31, 2015, 10:14:13 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on October 31, 2015, 09:17:11 AM
Third edition 40k called, it likes your style... :D
Lol, referring to computer games though :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on October 31, 2015, 11:54:54 AM
Quote from: beefcake on October 31, 2015, 10:14:13 AM
Lol, referring to computer games though :)

I know you were, but I bet they wish they had fans as compliant as GW's tabletop business model...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 01, 2015, 07:02:28 AM
I'm gonna hold out for a sale. Summer/Winter sale must be up in a month or so.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on November 01, 2015, 11:38:38 AM
I'd heard mordheim was shaping up pretty well. Good to know that at least something's still likable on that front.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 01, 2015, 12:52:45 PM
Think you just sold it to me Scurv - damn you!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 01, 2015, 08:34:02 PM
This might be the way forward - taking the rule-writing out of GW's hands (not a new thing, I know).

I didn't play computer games until I got Blood Bowl ~18 months ago. Now our club (with members in Queensland, northern NSW and Victoria) can run back to back seasons in our league with members dropping in and out over the year (with a small level of role playing in the discussions that happen on our forum).

There are some things computers do great, but I think I speak for almost all of us when I say it'll never be able to replace tabletop gaming.

Even in 2053 when they release a fully virtual world, I still want to know that's real super glue that's sticking my figures together, not just my mind being tricked into thinking they are.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on November 01, 2015, 09:00:55 PM
Quote from: Scurv on November 01, 2015, 02:39:39 PM
one of the nice things is online play with other people is going to be a big thing in the final release, This means lots of people are going to get the chance to send poor ol one eye Corl to hospital with horrific injuries.
COOOOORL! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uZPSGYq4ic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uZPSGYq4ic)  lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 01, 2015, 09:32:45 PM
I would be quite interested in that. the few revieuws I have seen were either GW fanboys or people who never played the real game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 01, 2015, 10:22:28 PM
I hope it comes out on the Mac......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 01, 2015, 10:43:01 PM
Human or skaven would be my choice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on November 01, 2015, 10:53:26 PM
I never played Mordheim but I always though the premise/setting was cooler than the main 'Hammer game.  I'd love to see a Batrep!  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 02, 2015, 03:20:16 AM
Anybody play Vermintide?

Looks alright, but it's got END TIMES!!!!1omg in the name and I'm not interested in any gaming any scenarios that end with the old world exploding.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 02, 2015, 08:19:42 AM
Geez, did Corl finally bite the biscuit?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 02, 2015, 01:56:32 PM
It looks very atmospheric, but by that token it's so dark I can barely tell what's going on. ;D

Interest's piqued, though. How does it play? Bit of a vague question, but I mean... when you say it feels like the tabletop game, does that mean it's turn-based, or...?

Fram: true, but that one looks kind of pretty too. :) I might have to scrape some pennies for a computer capable of playing these new-fangled modern vidja games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on November 02, 2015, 03:00:09 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 02, 2015, 03:20:16 AM
Anybody play Vermintide?

A buddy of mine is pushing me to get Vermintide, it's getting fairly good reviews and as I understand it, it's basically Left4Dead in a Warhammer setting.  Given that it's a fantasy game and the enemies (Skaven) have weapons, there was more emphasis on melee combat mechanics which look neat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on November 02, 2015, 03:32:44 PM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on November 02, 2015, 03:00:09 PM
A buddy of mine is pushing me to get Vermintide, it's getting fairly good reviews and as I understand it, it's basically Left4Dead in a Warhammer setting.  Given that it's a fantasy game and the enemies (Skaven) have weapons, there was more emphasis on melee combat mechanics which look neat.

Based on my experience I wouldn't really recommend it right now.  :?
The whole deal's a bugged mess with rat ogres spawning and attacking you during a mission's opening cutscene, packmasters that drag you through doors, floors and walls as well as occasionally out of the map and assassins that can fly or just spawn right on top of you.
On some maps the spawn rates are nuts and you will be drowned in Stormvermin and specials (don't be fooled by people saying only 3 can spawn at a time, I've witnessed at least 5 running around at the same time).

You also need to be constantly connected to two separate server systems, Steam and the developer's own server, to play the game even in singleplayer mode, meaning the game's nigh-unplayable for me due to Steam throwing a fit and disconnecting me nearly every hour.

On top of that, the community of the game is.. not very nice, so if you plan to play this game, it's far better to have your own friends to do it with.
The bots are sometimes a near-functional replacement but very often they do things that can't be explained by any intelligence, artificial or not, such as starting to run back towards the beginning of a map to kill a Ratling Gunner that's some distance ahead of your group.
The dwarf in particular is also very fond of just stopping and staring at something only he can see, refusing to move until the rest of the group has moved on sufficiently to make him teleport to them (if a packmaster or assassin grabs him in the meanwhile, too bad).

In short, you might want to wait and see if they can fix some of this stuff before investing in it.  :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 02, 2015, 04:06:30 PM
Quote
such as starting to run back towards the beginning of a map to kill a Ratling Gunner that's some distance ahead of your group.

Ah. Shades of Shadow of the Horned Rat. Uncanny!

Maybe I can save some pennies, then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on November 03, 2015, 12:49:52 AM
Quote from: FionaWhite on November 02, 2015, 03:32:44 PM
Based on my experience I wouldn't really recommend it right now.  :?
The whole deal's a bugged mess...
In short, you might want to wait and see if they can fix some of this stuff before investing in it.  :-I

Yeah, that seems to happen with too many games these days...  ::)  I'll warn my buddy, thanks.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on November 03, 2015, 12:36:35 PM

On the bright side games like this are at least making a good case for moving on to miniature gaming.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 03, 2015, 01:02:40 PM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on November 03, 2015, 12:49:52 AM
Yeah, that seems to happen with too many games these days...  ::)  I'll warn my buddy, thanks.  :)

Not really, buggy games have always been around. The fact that this game was in a paid open beta, "early access" and all that and then released without fixing apparently well documented bugs, now that's another issue. It does look like patches are going steady for now so a future version might be a viable game, so lets wait and see.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 08, 2015, 11:50:53 AM
Nipped into my local GW yesterday while in town, to get a close look at the Horus Heresy box.

Lovely crisp plastics and the sprue is packed with weapon options.  The "stormtrooper" style helmets make a nice change from "more f&*@ing space marines", and the characters and terminators are well done.  The Dreadnaught is posed a bit stiffly, and it's weird to see such a... tall... dread.

No purity seals to hack off the figures either - big plus in my book.  Shoulder pads have no iconography on them, and there's a small sheet of decals with Ultramarine and Word Bearer symbols.

Boardgames has a lot of nice pieces - unit and ?event cards, the board sections are durable and colourful.  Wasn't in long enough to read how it plays, but the rulebook has a lot in it - background, scenarios, colour piccies.  Whether anyone actually plays the game though...

For Dark Sphere's £72+£10 postage, it feels pretty good value - GW are good at boxed sets.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on November 12, 2015, 08:24:50 AM
Rumours emerging that GW is to relaunch Specialist Games  http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/670148.page  (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/670148.page)

(http://s12.postimg.org/4sm0l1c25/12227101_854745547957889_819922273771873564_n.png)

Picture is supposedly a publicity piece put together by some store manager in Australia.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 12, 2015, 09:05:43 AM
Will be interesting how they handle this. I see some good coming out of this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on November 12, 2015, 09:13:05 AM
They misspelled Armageddon, so I am quite sceptical of this. It would however rock to se a return of Specialist Games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 12, 2015, 09:24:10 AM
I call bull. There isn't any corporate indentity on the flyer and we know what GW are like for corporate identity. Quite a few other grammatical errors in there as well.

A shame but I didn't really think any resurrection of Specialist Games would ever happen, ever again..

 :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on November 12, 2015, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on November 12, 2015, 09:24:10 AM
I call bull. There isn't any corporate indentity on the flyer and we know what GW are like for corporate identity. Quite a few other grammatical errors in there as well.

You could well be right.  But there are explanations for all that if you read the Dakka Dakka thread.  
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 12, 2015, 09:27:57 AM
Bizarre. I'm inclined not to buy it, but that just leaves me wondering what the joke is supposed to be.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 12, 2015, 09:33:02 AM
Had a quick scan through that thread (missed the link before) and I'm still not convinced.

I certainly won't be holding my breath and even if it is true, it will be different to what it was (which might not be a bad thing...).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 12, 2015, 10:08:53 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on November 12, 2015, 09:24:10 AM
I call bull. There isn't any corporate indentity on the flyer and we know what GW are like for corporate identity. Quite a few other grammatical errors in there as well.

A shame but I didn't really think any resurrection of Specialist Games would ever happen, ever again..

 :?
No skullz either. Can't be real.

I'm also inclined to think it too good to be true. However if it is true I'll probably spend some money with GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: redeaston on November 12, 2015, 10:17:08 AM
I have my doubts but I hope its true.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cherno on November 12, 2015, 10:40:03 AM
Popped up on TMP today as well:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=403068

Beasts of War:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/games-workshop/specialist-games-coming-games-workshop/

Well, as they say around here, "nothing is eaten as hot as it is cooked", so we better wait until the first product is on the (virtual) shelves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 12, 2015, 10:44:03 AM
I mean, if it's true... oh, the Necromunda gangs I would buy! Ratskins, come to me! Eschers, I summon you! Pit Slaves, hither!

Actually, however much I want them, I might genuinely not be able to afford them as things stand right now. Their prices would be "premium" for sure.

Not that I'm convinced it's true. Don't know what to think yet, other than "bizarre".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 12, 2015, 11:08:55 AM
Well if this isn't true somebody has been cranking the rumour mill hard, and on purpose.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 12, 2015, 11:18:09 AM
Heh, I'll believe it when I see product in shops, until then I'm maintaining "If its too good to be true"-clause and "previous experience with GW" saline levels...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 12, 2015, 11:24:43 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on November 12, 2015, 09:33:02 AM
Had a quick scan through that thread (missed the link before) and I'm still not convinced.

Scanned down the first couple of pages, and TBH, I'm getting a faint impression of something like Stockholm syndrome.

Especially when a lot of good games and rulesets are being dismissed as mere 'SG clones'...

And that the SG rules were always available and, to some extent, catered for...

I enjoy a bit of an SG myself - I've been buying up minis for a couple of Epic armies (I don't have to wait for GW to get desperate enough!) - but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. Even before it's confirmed as true or false.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 12, 2015, 11:28:10 AM
Yeah, wait and see.

Specialist games has always had a special meaning for GW, and it will be difficult to believe that they wish to use it to bring things back..

Hard not to see it and read "FW to become Specialist games" which would be on par for normal levels of GW strangeness.

Will wait. and see.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on November 12, 2015, 11:45:30 AM
Will this new Specialist Games bring back Warhammer Fantasy I wonder... :D lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mahwell skel on November 12, 2015, 11:58:29 AM
Sounds like "dreams and rainbows" to me...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 12, 2015, 12:16:58 PM
Seems like there are some people - including reliable rumour-mongers - saying that the 'Specialist Studio' is to house LotR and  (parts of?) FW, no mention of much else, let alone the old SGs. It's possible the 'Specialist' bit just threw some Australian managers off.

Given how much store staff actually know about upcoming releases, I'm inclined to go with that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: baldlea on November 12, 2015, 12:28:36 PM
Just went into my local store and the manager knew nothing. He'd even been at a management meeting yesterday where nothing was said about any of this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 12, 2015, 12:44:48 PM
Visions of high quality 6mm Epic multipart kits in high quality finecast cough, cough, I mean high quality resin. and all those other classic games....

novel idea, but cannot escape thinking:

a) upcoming vacancy GW Australia store.
b) business as usual and things like LoTR and some FW stuff is going to the "Special" Place.

Back to work and waiting and seeing... ::)
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 12, 2015, 12:49:13 PM
Perhaps they have seen how popular the Warhammer/Specialist licensed computer games have been. I doubt it is true and it probably is wishful thinking but I recall that in the early days of the Age of Sigmar rumours I was like "Pff, yeah right!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 12, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
If it does go ahead then it'll be as a new vision... Newly sculpted figures etc. expect the original figure sculpts to go for even more on eBay  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 12, 2015, 01:23:56 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on November 12, 2015, 01:11:08 PM
If it does go ahead then it'll be as a new vision... Newly sculpted figures etc.

I could live with that, if the sculpts aren't all too... you know... "contemporary GW-y".

Although... it's notable that GW has re-released some of the old non-Cadian metal Imperial Guard figures (Tallarns, Valhallans, etc). At least I assume that they've been re-released (that is to say, that they've been OOP for a while), though I can't claim to be sure about that.

At any rate, I'm less confident about the realness of this McCoy now than I was at the time of my last post in this thread. Better just follow the example of others and sit back until the fog has lifted.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 12, 2015, 01:33:50 PM
The "other" Imperial Guard have always been there. Sometimes they've not had the heavy weapons teams though.

I'm not 100% convinced, but it would be cool although likely obscenely expensive if true. Existing vintage versions of all this stuff would potentially skyrocket in price too. That Necromunda hardback (prob. one of my favourites for production value out of this time) would be out of this world.

Besides, Specialist Games was the place great games went to die. It was originally a side venture but it soon became apparent that it was just meant to put it in the corner and forget about it. Jervis couldn't keep it alive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 12, 2015, 01:39:22 PM
Like we all have noted licensing of specialist games to computer has been trough the roof of late, so there does appear to be some sort of Specialist awakening at GW. So who is going to buy the inevitable big box boardgame of dark future?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 12, 2015, 01:47:17 PM
Would you guys please make up your minds about what I should believe! You've got me oscillating like a sine wave ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 12, 2015, 02:24:54 PM
Don't worry its good excercise, helps keep you healthy and awake.

I think we all definitely agree at this stage that its Australian, a rumour dreams are made of, we can't afford any,  the spelling is bad and we are all appaulingly hopefull, until said hope is bashed against the GW walls of despair, hoplessness and oscilation,

Meanwhile we will all continue to wait/oscilate according to necessity.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on November 12, 2015, 03:59:43 PM
I would probably only be interested in buying up original necromunda or mordheim figs if they are metal.  Considering with the Hobbit releases they were charging over $20 apiece for simple resin characters I can't see them selling too many of the specialist games figures at that price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Treebeard on November 12, 2015, 05:14:49 PM
Can't wait seeing these oldies coming back on the market with a 45% price increased   :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: robh on November 12, 2015, 05:31:53 PM
Would be great to see a re-issue of things like the Chaos Carnival for Mordheim, I have been after a set of those for ages.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 12, 2015, 06:32:17 PM
The local GW store manager (to me) has confirmed this. So it's accurate.

It makes sense to me IMHO. And what they should have been doing for ages. They can put ideas out there and see what the response is. Very much like how the demand of 30k stuff probably suggested that a 30k boxed set was worth a punt.

That said, I really, really hope they do not go back to the last Necromunda sculpts, they were absolutely hideous compared to the originals (Orlock, Ratskins and Goliath although there may have been others as well).

I also wonder if there will be a re-introduction of the 'living' rulebooks or complete re-writings of the rules. Personally, I was a bit miffed when they wrote sustained fire dice out of them as it was an element of chance / chaos that you couldn't be in control of. You could get off a number of shots or jam up your gun. I don't think a massive overhaul of the rules are needed for Necro, everything worked fine in the campaigns I ran.

Bloodbowl sort of makes sense, a pretty nice small and simple board game really.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 12, 2015, 06:34:01 PM
With the mad max film,wonder if dark futures coming back?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on November 12, 2015, 07:15:10 PM
Yep, my local store confirmed it as well. My guess is that they will do it more in box-set all-in-one games rather than reintroducing a whole system.  We can hope they bring back the old figs though,  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 12, 2015, 07:44:45 PM
Quote from: Treebeard on November 12, 2015, 05:14:49 PM
Can't wait seeing these oldies coming back on the market with a 45% price increased   :D
Still better than the Ebay "RARE OOP" 500%+ price increase! Only if they bring back the good sculpts though (and in a decent material, not that Finecast atrocity).

Mcfonz, seeing how, with the 30K boardgame, GW seems to have gotten over their allergy for specialty dice, one can only hope for the return of sustained fire dice... Love those little cubes of random. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on November 12, 2015, 07:48:06 PM
I hope not. My hobby budget is funded by selling old mostly SG figures on eBay, and "get them before they're available again" doesn't sound so snappy, sales wise!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blofeld on November 12, 2015, 08:08:14 PM
GW are acting even stranger than usual, Beasts of War were reporting a few days ago that they were selling a few copies of the old Warhammer rule book and a few end-times rule books over at Black Library, nothing would surprise me these days but these rumours seem extensive if they are false...
Thanks
Blofeld
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 12, 2015, 08:22:26 PM
Quote from: Streetline on November 12, 2015, 07:48:06 PM
I hope not. My hobby budget is funded by selling old mostly SG figures on eBay, and "get them before they're available again" doesn't sound so snappy, sales wise!

I remember seeing someone complain about something like this before. I think someone bought up some really old moulds and put the miniatures back into production after getting some new masters done. They complained that it had devalued their miniatures. I really want to feel sympathetic but I really can't.

My necromunda models will never be sold, I loved the game and I have the original Orlock gang (although not every model they released for them) as well as Goliaths, Ratskins, Redemptionists and a couple of others I think. I was gutted when they re-sculpted them and saw the quality massively reduced.

The only gang I have seen since then that has really hit me in the same way are the Heresy Trenchcoats, which is why I have bought a few of those!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 12, 2015, 08:32:56 PM
Yeah, I can't see myself selling off any of my Munda stuff. Great to hear news has been somewhat confirmed, unless its a worldwide GW conspiracy to p!$$ people off
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on November 12, 2015, 08:37:37 PM
Even if they do revive specialist games, the ship has long sailed for me. Other companies do it better, even if I do still like the originals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on November 12, 2015, 09:09:48 PM
Confirmed on the GW app according to print screens on Twitter. Naming necromunda, blood bowl, epic and battlefleet gothic. No mention of mordheim though at first glance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dentatus on November 12, 2015, 10:33:41 PM
I'm kinda with Kitsune here. I thoroughly enjoyed Necromunda - back in the day. I'll certainly investigate new figs or updated rules, but repackaged same old, same old is nothing to jump up and down over. TBH, I'm more excited about Osprey's Rogue Star.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 12, 2015, 10:47:10 PM
GW has long lost me as a paying customer for it main stream lines by pricing me out, now I'm rather excited by this announcement..

Well I was till I realised I no doubt still be priced out of the SG lines anyway, still it'll be interesting to see where this goes :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 12, 2015, 11:16:33 PM
I just have a bad feeling about this. There's a good proliferation of new games going on, with the 'death' of SGs cited as a factor; but now I think it's going to harder for them when lots are already running back to GW with cries of 'ooh me wallet' and 'I never liked those others anyway'.

And then GW is going to foul it up somehow. Which is one bright spot, perhaps.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 12, 2015, 11:23:39 PM
I will reserve judgement til we know more, but these great games being supported again should be brilliant and I am quietly excited.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on November 12, 2015, 11:41:48 PM
Official now.  They've announced it on the Warhammer App.  (yellow highlighting was done by me).

(http://s22.postimg.org/m0i4as5c1/GWSpecialist.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 13, 2015, 12:18:26 AM
Wow. Desperate times. Give customers what they want at prices no one can afford. That's assuming the prices will ... nah. GW will make it awful, they have to. They're GW!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on November 13, 2015, 01:11:47 AM
Just note what it says on that App Message: Stand Alone Sets.

So these will basically be a high def board game with about 20-30 miniatures a piece, probably no more than two factions, maybe 4 and that's pretty much pushing it. So they'll be one-off limited controled releases, like Space Hulk, Dreadfleet, and Execution Force.

I'm writing this off as an exercise in IP renewal and a cash-in on a gimmick at the same time. I have no doubt the miniatures will be nice, but there's a big if over whether the games will be any good. I highly doubt that any of them will be vaguely comparable to the great games they're based on.

I have a number of concerns, no least because I see this as an IP renewal as I mentioned. My primary worry is that GW Legal gets the clout of the games' IPs "being used" as justification for purges of anything vaguely similar on the market, and C&Ds on great communities like Yaktribe.

Anyway, isn't this a few too many games for a "Miniatures Company"?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 13, 2015, 02:09:16 AM
The Stand Alone Sets bit does not sound encouraging. What would that mean for Necromunda, for instance? Would it be revived only as a boardgame of, say, Orlocks vs Goliaths? No hope for other gangs being re-released?

Of course, I'm not interested in playing the SGs the way they want me to play them. I'd just get the figures I want and do my own thing with them. So I'm not their target audience. The question for me is simply, what can I scavenge off of this whole ballyhoo?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 13, 2015, 02:21:55 AM
Quote from: Gibby on November 12, 2015, 11:23:39 PM
these great games being supported again should be brilliant

To be honest the notion of GW's support gets my goat as well. Yeah, it should be brilliant. But I've told people, long before this announcement, that they're already 'supported' - just not by GW. Dim Reaper mentions Yaktribe. I've watched folk at the Tactical Command forum, and to an extent the Conclave and Specialist Arms forums, pick up the 'living rulebook' downloads for other SGS - Epic: A, Inquisitor and Warmaster; keep them up and available; even find tune them and write lists for them to a pretty disciplined degree.

Minis are more problematic, but I've seen five businesses pop up: fans providing 6mm sci-fi proxies since Epic was dumped, gradually building up a decent catalogue with what they were limited to; not to mention Shapeways shops for minis and conversion parts, and private creations. Have you heard the story of when a guy turned up on the TacComm forum with almost spot-on range of 6mm Necrons that he'd sculpted, that forum members persuaded him should be offered to FW via a contact on the forum, and that ended up as 'Edenites' in the Exodus Wars range? FW didn't want 'em, and GW didn't care that Steel Crown sold Necrons in all but name. It all ended up done by fans, for fans.

Overall, I've watched fans pick up the SGs from where GW dropped them, watched the fans support them and make them their own. It wasn't good enough for folk who didn't like their games without an official stamp, who thought that only GW was capable or deserving of providing support; but I thought it was an almost heroic effort - is an almost heroic effort - and I honestly regret not doing something about it myself.

At the moment I think too much time and water has passed, making Dim's prediction too plausible for comfort: a reason to get a few cash injections (I hear AoS is not doing as well as hoped) and bring the IP hammer down on a bunch of little guys. And another sad thing is that a lot of old SG fans won't care, because they're getting their officially-stamped one-off box sets.

If this turns out good for any 'little guys', it's the ebay scalpers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 13, 2015, 04:23:47 AM
Quote from: Vermis on November 13, 2015, 02:21:55 AM
At the moment I think too much time and water has passed, making Dim's prediction too plausible for comfort: a reason to get a few cash injections (I hear AoS is not doing as well as hoped) and bring the IP hammer down on a bunch of little guys. And another sad thing is that a lot of old SG fans won't care, because they're getting their officially-stamped one-off box sets.

If this turns out good for any 'little guys', it's the ebay scalpers.

Pretty much all of this. Too late, but it'll be a quick cash grab, IP reset, eBay will lose its fucking mind (if it hasn't already).

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 13, 2015, 07:27:15 AM
Oh dear, I hadn't thought of GW Legal waking up again to have another swing at the IP-pinata over this... :o That would indeed be bad. On the other hand, maybe the Chapterhouse case has made them more careful, if not sensible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 13, 2015, 07:33:46 AM
Box sets?

Blurgh, I'll pass  :?

Probably limited in number as well... Several times...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 13, 2015, 08:07:53 AM
Quote from: Vermis on November 13, 2015, 02:21:55 AM
To be honest the notion of GW's support gets my goat as well. Yeah, it should be brilliant. But I've told people, long before this announcement, that they're already 'supported' - just not by GW. Dim Reaper mentions Yaktribe. I've watched folk at the Tactical Command forum, and to an extent the Conclave and Specialist Arms forums, pick up the 'living rulebook' downloads for other SGS - Epic: A, Inquisitor and Warmaster; keep them up and available; even find tune them and write lists for them to a pretty disciplined degree.

Minis are more problematic, but I've seen five businesses pop up: fans providing 6mm sci-fi proxies since Epic was dumped, gradually building up a decent catalogue with what they were limited to; not to mention Shapeways shops for minis and conversion parts, and private creations. Have you heard the story of when a guy turned up on the TacComm forum with almost spot-on range of 6mm Necrons that he'd sculpted, that forum members persuaded him should be offered to FW via a contact on the forum, and that ended up as 'Edenites' in the Exodus Wars range? FW didn't want 'em, and GW didn't care that Steel Crown sold Necrons in all but name. It all ended up done by fans, for fans.

Overall, I've watched fans pick up the SGs from where GW dropped them, watched the fans support them and make them their own. It wasn't good enough for folk who didn't like their games without an official stamp, who thought that only GW was capable or deserving of providing support; but I thought it was an almost heroic effort - is an almost heroic effort - and I honestly regret not doing something about it myself.

At the moment I think too much time and water has passed, making Dim's prediction too plausible for comfort: a reason to get a few cash injections (I hear AoS is not doing as well as hoped) and bring the IP hammer down on a bunch of little guys. And another sad thing is that a lot of old SG fans won't care, because they're getting their officially-stamped one-off box sets.

If this turns out good for any 'little guys', it's the ebay scalpers.

Alright, perhaps I phrased it wrongly because I am fully aware that the fans have carried on the SG magic with the efforts you talk about, and I have a lot of PDFs of rules and fan supplements, as well as bookmarks to many of the companies who sell Not-X miniatures.

 What I was getting at was that it might be nice to see GW acknowledge many of these old games again. New, nice figures (hopefully) and heck, even a few Game in a Box releases would be welcome. Their latest Horus Heresy game looks very nice and doesn't appear to be limited edition, so yeah, I would be interested to see a new Blood Bowl, even though I have the old boxed game and several customised teams, and several incarnations of the living rulebook. I would be happy to see a BFG game in a box, given how much it would cost to get two fleets off eBay right now.

The sad truth is that their IP is theirs to protect. Given that they have licenced a lot of SG stuff out to computer games I think their intention is to cash in, and why not, on the excitement generated from those. I myself have not got too excited about the Battlefield Gothic computer game, knowing how much it would make me want to play the tabletop (because impressionable), so if there was a boxed game of it to get stuck into then great!

We have nothing but a vague announcement yet so it is worth watching and seeing what comes of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 13, 2015, 08:47:56 AM
Well, I forsee that either GW re-issue the old boxed sets along with some limited support boxes (all stuff released in plastic), or they release a standalone boxed set for a game in the style of the recent Space Hulk. It seems unlikely that they will make the various full armies/gangs/warbands/fleets for each game in plastic though, and less likely in metal or failcast.

In either instance, I can't help but feel this is a desperate move on GW's part, and I wonder how long their promise will last.

I mean, they ditched the parts-ordering service (promising it would return in a re-vamped way soon, which it didn't), and then ditched all the supplemental content on their website (which they now sell you at silly prices via iTunes - how to paint a Space Marine in blue/red/green/pink, etc), and ditched all their non-core games (because having sidelined them, ruined the miniatures lines with poor amateur sculpts and casting, jacked up the prices to silly levels, and refusing to support them with plastic sprues or model availability doomed them to ignominy first and their demise second).

The funny thing is, GW are in a strange and enviable market position that in any other market sector would have seen them absolutely wipe the floor with most of their competition; and yet, they cannot seem to increase their profitability due to their inability to listen to or understand their customers' concerns, and gradually lose market share year on year. It's really baffling that they can't see that, but we've discussed it before and so I'll leave that comment there.

A fancy modern and updated version of their old games (Necromunda, Mordheim, and Epic in particular) would certainly fly off the shelves I reckon, and so although I am curious (and even, I admit, cautiously hopeful), I have set my expectations low and will wait and see what comes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 13, 2015, 09:01:42 AM
Boxed sets over the next "few years" yeah that sounds like support

Of course that means in a "few years" they will have a larger pool of "limited edition" boxed set games to select from rather than having to re-do Space Hulk every time. So Space Hulk limited edition never to be seen again releases will maybe less frequent.

Either way they clearly say its a re-imagining and over the next few years, so I don't see support there, just name and IP retention, as mentioned by brighter people than me already. In more detail.

Expectations set to disappoinment level and returning to wait and see mode.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 13, 2015, 09:04:23 AM
Quote from: Vermis on November 13, 2015, 02:21:55 AM
To be honest the notion of GW's support gets my goat as well. Yeah, it should be brilliant. But I've told people, long before this announcement, that they're already 'supported' - just not by GW. Dim Reaper mentions Yaktribe. I've watched folk at the Tactical Command forum, and to an extent the Conclave and Specialist Arms forums, pick up the 'living rulebook' downloads for other SGS - Epic: A, Inquisitor and Warmaster; keep them up and available; even find tune them and write lists for them to a pretty disciplined degree.

Minis are more problematic, but I've seen five businesses pop up: fans providing 6mm sci-fi proxies since Epic was dumped, gradually building up a decent catalogue with what they were limited to; not to mention Shapeways shops for minis and conversion parts, and private creations. Have you heard the story of when a guy turned up on the TacComm forum with almost spot-on range of 6mm Necrons that he'd sculpted, that forum members persuaded him should be offered to FW via a contact on the forum, and that ended up as 'Edenites' in the Exodus Wars range? FW didn't want 'em, and GW didn't care that Steel Crown sold Necrons in all but name. It all ended up done by fans, for fans.

Overall, I've watched fans pick up the SGs from where GW dropped them, watched the fans support them and make them their own. It wasn't good enough for folk who didn't like their games without an official stamp, who thought that only GW was capable or deserving of providing support; but I thought it was an almost heroic effort - is an almost heroic effort - and I honestly regret not doing something about it myself.

At the moment I think too much time and water has passed, making Dim's prediction too plausible for comfort: a reason to get a few cash injections (I hear AoS is not doing as well as hoped) and bring the IP hammer down on a bunch of little guys. And another sad thing is that a lot of old SG fans won't care, because they're getting their officially-stamped one-off box sets.

If this turns out good for any 'little guys', it's the ebay scalpers.

Seeing as I recently spoke in another thread of Necromunda being irrelevant because it's "dead on the industry side", I feel I need to address this.

The companies stepping in to make unofficial miniatures for the SGs are indeed doing a heroic effort, and I'll gladly play/collect any and all SGs that catch my fancy with any miniatures suitable to that end, official or not. It's just that some miniatures are not available, even from third-party manufacturers.

I'd love to have a Ratskin gang more than anything else SG-related. They don't have to be GW rubber-stamped Ratskins, they just have to be Ratskins.

Could all the SG miniatures I want become available from third-party manufacturers if I give it long enough? Maybe, but I can't in good conscience cheer these companies on as they sail so close to the wind in regard to IP. That's not because I feel any sympathy toward GW and its IP struggles (I don't), but simply because making unofficial SG miniatures might be a gamble due to C&D umbrage, and I shouldn't be encouraging other people to gamble their money just so I can have what I want.

So, I'm sad to say that when I look at the SG games, I do it with some melancholy, never being entirely sure whether they're quite as much alive today as they were back when GW was less cynical and still supported the games its own self.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on November 13, 2015, 09:38:52 AM
Sounds to me they make cash from most boxsets (Dark Vengeance, Space Hulk, Calth, let's just forget landfill Dreadfleet). Their number one concern is making money, so make more boxsets. Note that they are standalone boxsets, support in this case means a one-off boxed game (with hopefully a nice set of minis at "affordable" prices). They may put the old living rulebooks back online, but if anybody expects a new era of FAQs and ongoing development, I would be amazed if this happens. Where's the cash return in getting somebody to update rulebooks? Also, who would do it, apart from Jervis and Phil Kelly, all the other developers are long gone? In the last couple of annual reports GW have gone to great lengths to explain that they are a model company - they have played down the games so much - even started rebranded their shops to remove "Game" from their title.

It takes a lot to rebuild trust once lost, and GW lost mine a few years ago. There are so many alternatives around, in game terms these are invariably better. In model terms, there it's personal taste, but I still pick up the odd GW box because they still can show the world how it's done and when contained in a boxset it can work out "affordable". None of the specialist games ever appealed to me, but I can see folks being excited by it so I hope it works out for you. But I think you can expect a wait of several years, and then a one-off game, then very little else.

Strangest thing for me is this. GW pulled the plug on WHFB because it was only generating 10 - 15 % of their revenue (figure a guess based on previous annual reports). Now they are bringing back (reportedly) loss-making Specialist Games. For me, and you can call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, this is a knee-jerk reaction to the abysmal performance of Age of Sigmar. It has bombed, big time, and suddenly GW are staring down the barrel of a 15% revenue drop and a massive fan backlash. The new golden goose has turned out to be a turkey, and they are looking at a replacement, before they really do turn into SpaceMarineWorkshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: harleyface on November 13, 2015, 09:51:56 AM
Dreadfleet could be a good example how they will convert games to one box games.
Manowar/Dreadfleet
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 13, 2015, 09:54:30 AM
Quote from: Nord on November 13, 2015, 09:38:52 AM
The new golden goose has turned out to be a turkey, and they are looking at a replacement, before they really do turn into SpaceMarineWorkshop.



But on the bright side if it is a Turkey, at least it's just in time for Christmas!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 13, 2015, 09:56:05 AM
Quote from: harleyface on November 13, 2015, 09:51:56 AM
Dreadfleet could be a good example how they will convert games to one box games.
Manowar/Dreadfleet
"Good"   ;D I take it by good, you mean bad  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: harleyface on November 13, 2015, 09:57:56 AM
A good example...not a good game lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 13, 2015, 10:41:55 AM
Quote from: harleyface on November 13, 2015, 09:57:56 AM
A good example...not a good game lol

A good example of a bad conversion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 13, 2015, 11:25:12 AM
I've long ragged on GW for their peculiar mixture of corporate incompetence, malevolence, arrogance... and very nice toy soldiers.  But this is a decent idea. 

Base boxed sets with massive standalone playability followed by a range (some would say tiidal wave) of expansions has been a winner for Fantasy Flight, and is arguably a business model that GW themselves perfected.  GW are great at filling boxed sets, but hobbled themselves with their attachment to their "codex/creep" business model.  Betrayal at Calth has changed that - playable game in a box, use the figures with our other games.

So  interesting times - will wait and see what comes out. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on November 13, 2015, 12:44:39 PM
Except there's no real crossover with the specialist games. What other games do you use an Epic fleet with, a blood bowl team, a Man o War fleet? Admittedly you could potentially use Mordheim figures with WHFB, oh wait.......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on November 13, 2015, 01:42:03 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on November 13, 2015, 11:25:12 AM
Betrayal at Calth has changed that - playable game in a box, use the figures with our other games.

I heard it mentioned that's not even a limited edition. Have I stumbled into some alternate reality or what?  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 13, 2015, 04:06:43 PM
Quote from: Nord on November 13, 2015, 12:44:39 PM
Except there's no real crossover with the specialist games. What other games do you use an Epic fleet with, a blood bowl team, a Man o War fleet? Admittedly you could potentially use Mordheim figures with WHFB, oh wait.......

Er.... same as you did last time?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 13, 2015, 04:21:38 PM
Many years ago, there were ways to do a grand campaign, I think in White Dwarf, where a Battlefleet Gothic space battle would determine how an Epic game would be played, and each Epic encounter could break down into a 40k game.

But really these games were great for standing on their own. I had and played BFG, Necromunda, Bloodbowl, Mordheim, Epic; I tried  to do something with both Inquisitor and Warmaster but I just never got it off the ground.

I've long been out of the GW Hobby TM. Probably keep it that way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 13, 2015, 06:11:48 PM
Gibby: I don't disagree, and I wasn't singling you out. Sorry if it seemed that way. But the notion of 'support' is one that I've seen bandied about on other forums like Dakka (I should really limit my visits there...) especially in light of this news, and it's like a trigger.

Until recently I probably would've welcomed new SG stuff from GW. Now though, like I say, it's like "No! Shove off! You had your chance!"

I'm sceptical about how much support GW might provide anyway, if this goes off like their other recent box sets. Nice to have a box with official models, manufactured to GW's high standards, true; maybe, say, an Epic or BFG box with a force of Space Marines and a force of Orks. (Though these days, more likely a force of 'goodie' Space Marines and a force of 'baddie' Space Marines) And then what?

I have a feeling that the community projects and proxy makers might actually already provide more support, in some areas, even with their limited ranges and resources.
In fact, I remember the last release of Epic - Epic: Armageddon, the edition when the Epic bug bit me. Three forces for the initial book: Space Marines, Orks and Steel Legion IG. Updated vehicles for the SMs and orks, at least, but the plastic infantry sprues were retooled from previous editions. Unless I miss my guess, they were the same retooled plastic infantry from all the way back to the original Adeptus Titanicus expansions! For the E:A Stormwind expansion there were Eldar releases, and a limited range of metal vehicles for Baran Siegemaster IG and Feral Orks. (Those latter two completed with minis from the initial IG and ork ranges) There was also a sprueful of plastic CSM available for a while, and FW made a splash with their 6mm Tau and Grey Knights, before it all fizzled out.

So, five relatively complete ranges - six counting the GK (moar SMs) to be generous - and bits and pieces besides. Gonna be honest, that's more than than I thought when I started counting. But there were still a lot of factions that weren't catered for. Will we even get that much this time around?
I think the proxy sellers that popped up were able to match GW's output and fill a few gaps. Without going off on a long list of ranges, the output of Dark Realm, Steel Crown, Onslaught, Troublemaker, Microworld, Bradley and Khurasan easily added up to eleven factions - ten still available - with some duplicates and variations, and their own bits and pieces besides.

Major Gilbear: agreed!

Quote from: Rhoderic on November 13, 2015, 09:04:23 AM
The companies stepping in to make unofficial miniatures for the SGs are indeed doing a heroic effort, and I'll gladly play/collect any and all SGs that catch my fancy with any miniatures suitable to that end, official or not. It's just that some miniatures are not available, even from third-party manufacturers.

True. I admit I don't know too much about what's going on with potential SG proxies outside the Epic bubble, but even there I'd say there are still noticeable gaps. It's limited by the time and resources available to a bunch of one-man operations, not to mention the spectre of GW's legal team hovering about. But I've been watching people fill a lot of gaps anyway, and I wonder how far it can go.

Quote
I can't in good conscience cheer these companies on as they sail so close to the wind in regard to IP. That's not because I feel any sympathy toward GW and its IP struggles (I don't), but simply because making unofficial SG miniatures might be a gamble due to C&D umbrage, and I shouldn't be encouraging other people to gamble their money just so I can have what I want.

If it's any consolation, the folk making these things want to have them too, and they've likely already gambled the money. :D There's also the strange thing that GW overlooked quite a few close shaves, at 6mm anyway. The necrons that became edenites, for one. (They may have been modified, I'm not sure) Though that's not to say they were totally blind - I know of one wee enterprise, producing very close matches, that got stamped on.

I have a feeling that GW's remoras have gone through a lot of trial and error to sound out what they can do or get away with,  and the Chapterhouse case in particular has shown up how generic or unprotectable some of their concepts and designs are. I dunno. Maybe I'd have to get stung myself to see how right or wrong I am, and maybe this Specialist Studio bit will make GW more prickly again, but it's not something that stresses me too much.

Quote
So, I'm sad to say that when I look at the SG games, I do it with some melancholy, never being entirely sure whether they're quite as much alive today as they were back when GW was less cynical and still supported the games its own self.

I'll say they're not, unfortunately, with me own melancholy. I'm vocal about it because of the frustration of watching lots of people recoil from the letters 'OOP' like they were poison, and I know there are plenty who will never consider a game because of that, regardless of good reports or the availability of some resources.

But 'not quite as much alive' =/= 'dead'. ;)

Momotaro: I think I'd be much happier if FF were handed the SGs, and I know I'm not the only one. I'm not entirely sure GW still knows how to pull off that box set-to-range thing.

The Calth box reminds me of the last edition of Space Hulk. Folk were grabbing that to play and to stick the termies in their SM armies, too. Arguably a tiny bit of what doomed Dreadfleet too: unplayable game, incompatible minis.

For one-off SG boxes... I'm not sure. On Mo's side, older gamers can use them to expand their old forces, and I've no doubt they'll be bought for that. But on Nord's side, going back to the issue of support: how many kids playing GW games these days will have a boxful of SG stuff in mothballs, and how will they flesh out that new box if it's a one-off?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on November 13, 2015, 08:41:58 PM
Quote from: Vermis on November 13, 2015, 02:21:55 AM
Overall, I've watched fans pick up the SGs from where GW dropped them, watched the fans support them and make them their own. It wasn't good enough for folk who didn't like their games without an official stamp, who thought that only GW was capable or deserving of providing support; but I thought it was an almost heroic effort - is an almost heroic effort - and I honestly regret not doing something about it myself.

...And another sad thing is that a lot of old SG fans won't care, because they're getting their officially-stamped one-off box sets.

I think this statement here from Vermis earlier sums up my frustration. I've been involved with various fan projects over the years, and it's led me to this conclusion: a weak concept from a position of authority is more powerful and influential than a stronger concept from a position with less to no authority.

Fans have been keeping the SGs afloat for years, and almost entirely without thanks. Other fans have been modifying some of the cores, and the general attitude throughout the community has been that such writers are little more than wish-listing power gamers who want to recapture old power plays. Fan Rules are distrusted, House Rules barely used. It's not surprising, there have been generations of gamers since the 90s who value officialdom over everything else and have never even contemplated the idea of modifying rules to suit and using common sense to resolve rules issues.

These generations, ones that are happier to stick with what is official, said source who had writers, who for the sake of fairness to a new community I have been welcomed into: are at the very least controversial names who have not been popular, and some of them are still there. Who have put out arse covering platitudes that encourage wargamers to forsake all linguistic sense in favour of literal interpretations and inflexible attitudes to interpretation. Because GW got away with pretty much all of this, it's not surprising what else they get away with. I would say that their Rules Writing has been wanting for over a decade at this point, and it has been getting steadily worse.

Whilst I will confess a bit of a soft spot for Age of Sigmar (I never had much fondness for WHFB or much of its community), it's still proof beyond all doubt that GW's writers were never merely failing because of trying to keep the integrity of a system intact. Age of Sigmar barely functions, and issues a massive cop-out that threatens to endanger the integrity of rules writers in the entire industry in at least 3 different ways. Sure, it's fun to play, it even to my mind works a little better than WHFB did in giving some factions an actual chance, but it still broadly fails at this.

People are talking about these new statements as if GW are "Supporting" the Old Specialist Games. That isn't necessarily the case. Just because they're going to stick Necromunda, Mordheim, Bloodbowl or Epic onto the front of a high-def printed box doesn't mean that this is remotely what it contains. It hasn't been stated that it'll be the herald of concurrent releases, and I seriously have my doubts that it will.

GW have had a Design Studio going for quite a while, and looking at Age of Sigmar, 40k and the Hobbit game collectively, they're not a very good one.

They can certainly come up with some good ideas from time to time, even games that are broadly good (Execution Force), but the principles upon which they write are ridiculous, and the cop outs they employ as damage control are testament to that.

Even if GW are going to "Support" Specialist Games again, representing more than just the factions they choose to put in a boxed game, there are no guarantees that what they produce will be remotely good, or even a single patch on any of the Old Games they are replacing. Why do I believe this? Take a look at Necromunda: Underhive. From any perspective, this latter day update was a complete and total failure. It was deluged with typos, but more importantly, it was a factory reset of the old game that took out a lot of character (and all of Outlanders) and repackaged it "modernised". It added one good rule, and then it initiated a paperchase with the Outlander updates, many of which were vastly more overpowered than their first edition versions. Against a Redemption player in Underhive who knows what they are doing you have virtually no chance of dealing with them.

What I like about Specialist Games was that they were left alone. They weren't going to get screwed around with. They weren't going to deteriorate. They may not have been perfect, but at least they were stable, unlike the Cores, that have become a mess of ridiculous inequalities. Most of the SGs were written by writers that I rate highly. Of them all, only Jervis still works for the company, and given his "Standard Bearer", which started the tides of roll-offs and RAW, I'm not a big fan any more. I don't rate any of the others either. The endless reams of platitude-ridden cop-outs have been it for me, and I wont be buying any more rulebooks from this company. Forging the Narrative, the miniatures company label, removing specific author names from their publications, all of these are about damage control and are hollow statements that aren't even true. 40k isn't a narrative game (certainly no more than tiddly winks is), they still make rules and fluff for their models, because they admit by action that without them they'd be pointless, and writers still mostly solo books, it's just they don't like admitting who, and occasionally White Dwarf lets slip who it is.

So, to end a long-winded rant with a conclusion, I'm not looking forward to these new "games". I don't have any respect for their writers, and GW are only ultimately good at things that computer software can fix for them. It's been a bugbear for quite a while now, and I'm tired of it.

As a Specialist Games enthusiast, whether they bring out a new version or not isn't going to bother me. I own the publications that matter to me, and I'll stick to using those. I'm sure I'm not the only SG gamer who will do that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 13, 2015, 08:55:43 PM
So, it's a no from you, then?  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on November 13, 2015, 09:05:54 PM
Probably the most fun I ever had with any GW game was SG's, particularly Blood Bowl and Mordheim. The rules are there, albeit the 'living' versions might not technically be wholly GW's any longer (anyone know how this works?). I really find it difficult to believe that it can be in any way difficult for such a large company to give these fine games another run. They are begging to be given a refresh and introduced to a new generation of gamers while making a lot of older ones very happy. The problem is that GW no longer appears to be interested in the games or settings. So I think they'll either make expensive, limited, one-box games of maybe one or two of the old SG's, or nothing at all. Can anyone really imagine them making huge ranges of teams/gangs/fleets etc in this day and age?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 13, 2015, 09:17:58 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on November 13, 2015, 09:05:54 PM
Probably the most fun I ever had with any GW game was SG's, particularly Blood Bowl and Mordheim. The rules are there, albeit the 'living' versions might not technically be wholly GW's any longer (anyone know how this works?).

You can't copyright rules, only the expression of them (the actual document).  Copyright, unlike trademarks, does not have to be defended to remain valid.

So GW still owns the games as they were written.  If the living documents use blocks of text, tables and artwork from the original, GW still owns those.  New rules, sections of rules that have been rewritten - all those belong to the respective authors.  If you try to publish with big chunks of GW copyrighted material, they're perfectly within their rights to demand you take the material down.

If the living documents use GW trademarks, then the document has to acknowledge GW's ownership of those TMs.  Otherwise, the document can be understood as a challenge to the trademark - in that case, GW MUST litigate to retain control of them.

The converse is true - if GW likes a "new" rule, they could rewrite those sections to use the algorithms.

So the answer lies with the specific contents of the living rulebooks, but I'd put money on GW having them by the balls...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 13, 2015, 09:44:43 PM
Quote from: Vermis on November 13, 2015, 06:11:48 PM
Momotaro: I think I'd be much happier if FF were handed the SGs, and I know I'm not the only one. I'm not entirely sure GW still knows how to pull off that box set-to-range thing.

The Calth box reminds me of the last edition of Space Hulk. Folk were grabbing that to play and to stick the termies in their SM armies, too. Arguably a tiny bit of what doomed Dreadfleet too: unplayable game, incompatible minis.

For one-off SG boxes... I'm not sure. On Mo's side, older gamers can use them to expand their old forces, and I've no doubt they'll be bought for that. But on Nord's side, going back to the issue of support: how many kids playing GW games these days will have a boxful of SG stuff in mothballs, and how will they flesh out that new box if it's a one-off?

GW's games have often been saturated with choice - often more than their minis ranges supported.  I'd actually argue that 40k and WFB are/were badly written partly because they are overloaded with "trap" choices - army builds and model weapon choices that are strictly inferior to others in all situations.  And bloody hard to correct once the figures are glued together...

Other games replace model options with options for spells, abilities, gear and events.  I'm not claiming that GW is capable of writing that kind of tight, clever ruleset, but it's not impossible.  Agree with you about what FFG rulesets could achieve with GW models, but to my mind they can go too far the other way  - TOO MANY cards on the table.

There's a happy medium somewhere...

Dreadfleet was the perfect storm of uselessness.  You wouldn't buy it for the rules; what could you even use the ships for?

To be honest, I'm surprised that the Calth box even contains non-40k rules.  I'm pretty sure that everyone and their dog is buying them for 30k armies.

I'm more excited that GW are advertising for new Middle-Earth designers and writers alongside the SG ones.  Clearly something is stirring in GW-land...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 13, 2015, 09:48:23 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on November 13, 2015, 09:44:43 PM


To be honest, I'm surprised that the Calth box even contains non-40k rules.  I'm pretty sure that everyone and their dog is buying them for 30k armies.

I'm more excited that GW are advertising for new Middle-Earth designers and writers alongside the SG ones.  Clearly something is stirring in GW-land...

Well, they wouldn't have had to, if all the talent was retained. I guess some schmuck will still do it.

In the recycling heap archeology dig 1000 years from now, the vast quantities of the contents of Calth box barring the miniatures will make the future wonder - just what happened here? Why did they ALL throw the cardboard box, rules, and all the other useless crap in the recycling heap? Where are all the plastics?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 13, 2015, 09:53:46 PM
I could find a use for the hex boards and dice if they come up cheap on eBay...

I believe a large quantity of the original Dark Heresy RPG was landfilled when GW decided to ditch the line the DAY AFTER they released it...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 13, 2015, 10:01:31 PM
Quote from: grant on November 13, 2015, 09:48:23 PM
In the recycling heap archeology dig 1000 years from now, the vast quantities of the contents of Calth box barring the miniatures will make the future wonder - just what happened here? Why did they ALL throw the cardboard box, rules, and all the other useless crap in the recycling heap? Where are all the plastics?

This. If the SGs return in any form, I'll only be interested in scavenging miniatures off of them (and that's only assuming the cost-benefit works out in my favour, which it may well not).

GW studio rules? I'd almost forgotten that sort of thing even exists.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: richstrach on November 13, 2015, 10:30:45 PM
I was obsessed with GW stuff in the late 1980s/early 1990s, and 40K/WHFB (and Fantasy Roleplay - what on earth happened to that again?) was my life when I was a kid, but by 1993 or so I started a long hiatus from wargaming and so all the specialist games passed me by. Since getting back into the hobby though, Mordheim is a name that keeps coming up, and I'd love to see an updated version of it in whatever format. The LotR news interests me most though; when I got back into gaming, I kept wanting to get into The Hobbit, but even to a relative outsider it seems obvious that it gets no support from GW. I'll be intrigued to see what they do with it, even though my finances make GW's prices completely out of my range.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 14, 2015, 11:50:44 AM
Quote from: grant on November 13, 2015, 09:48:23 PM
Well, they wouldn't have had to, if all the talent was retained. I guess some schmuck will still do it.

In the recycling heap archeology dig 1000 years from now, the vast quantities of the contents of Calth box barring the miniatures will make the future wonder - just what happened here? Why did they ALL throw the cardboard box, rules, and all the other useless crap in the recycling heap? Where are all the plastics?

Actually, I think it makes complete sense and is quite intuitive.

They released a 30k boardgame with 28mm miniatures. This way it is not a 30k starter set. It doesn't have to be 'balanced'. It's not competing directly with 40k and is a complete stand-a-lone.

It will appeal to more than the 40k players. It will appeal to those who perhaps only have time or inclination for boardgames now (and Zombicide has shown that it isn't a small market). People who stopped collecting years ago but who have been buying and reading the Black Library books on the Horus Heresy etc. A stand a lone board game will appeal to them more or as much as getting back into the full on wargame side of things.

If they had just done it as a 'starter set' I don't think the appeal would have been as broad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 14, 2015, 01:35:27 PM
With all the hype about the Horus Heresy these last few years, BL novels etc., GW Prime doing something like this about it is probably one of the best things they could do. But by that token it is kind of a no-brainer. :)

But then, based on recent performance, GW may be lacking a brain in the first place, which makes it impressive again... it's a real chicken-egg conundrum.

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on November 13, 2015, 08:41:58 PM
Lots of things

A sincere and hearty welcome to the LAF, Dim_Reaper. lol :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 14, 2015, 05:23:26 PM
And the recycling of the useless junk begins:

"All the rules, dice, cards and boards from Horus Heresy: Betrayal At Calth"
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=84465.0

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 15, 2015, 02:55:15 PM
Quote from: grant on November 14, 2015, 05:23:26 PM
And the recycling of the useless junk begins:

"All the rules, dice, cards and boards from Horus Heresy: Betrayal At Calth"
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=84465.0


They're selling like hotcakes on eBay, TrollTrader has shifted dozens this morning already.  Just managed to pick up one of the last sets.  2ft x 2.5 ft of hex-tiled gameboard, some funky dice (can always find a use for those).  Maybe the game is even worth a look  ;)  So... happy bunny.

I have a copy of Space Hulk that I bought without the minis too - very happy with all the gaming pieces that I got.  Already have dozens - hundreds - of painted minis I can play that with, no need to add more to the pile.

As for boardgames vs tabletop minis games... boardgames these days give a fun evening's play with tight and relatively simple rules.  And component quality is getting pretty good.  X-wing was a game-changer, I feel, and not just because it's Star Wars.  Every element of the game, from painted minis and pick-up time to depth of expansion and sales strategy, makes GW's efforts look tired and pedestrian.

Nowt wrong with big rulesets (as long as you don't mistake pure bulk for quality of simulation) and collecting and painting a big army can be a pure joy (though Pete Berry of Baccus had some words to say on the effect the move to 28mm had).  But I can get into fast, snappy, clever rulesets and still collect and paint quality minis, and build little worlds for them to inhabit.

So bring it on - it will be interesting to see what they come up with.  Maybe collecting and painting Mordheim with half a dozen expansions becomes an achievable goal and GW is big enough to do that for half a dozen lines.  I will at least give them a chance to make the damn games before I rip into them... ;)

It takes more than nostalgia to relaunch an old game - the new one needs to be good in itself to be a success.  So if you like an old game then collect the minis and play the games (nice to be off the expansion treadmill) for themselves, but you're not doing "the community" or the company any favours.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 15, 2015, 03:21:43 PM
Interesting. I don't see the appeal, but obviously I'm wrong!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 15, 2015, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on November 15, 2015, 02:55:15 PM

...... if you like an old game then collect the minis and play the games (nice to be off the expansion treadmill) for themselves, but you're not doing "the community" or the company any favours.


I have to, at least partially, disagree, mate.
You may not be doing the company any favours but the community for all the 'old' Specialist Games has its own support and I feel that continuing with the old games does support the 'old' (Oldhammer in this case) community, mate.
When GW pulled the plug on Specialist Games, the community did not die, it just found alternatives.
Better ones in some cases.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 15, 2015, 05:34:45 PM
Ok you're right - there is a community, certainly enough to keep people sculpting Blood Bowl teams.  And people contributing to rules upkeep.  And enough for Mantic to nick the ideas and kickstart them...Mea culpa.

Still not sure GW owes them anything though.  I reckon the new games will succeed or fail on their own merits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 15, 2015, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on November 15, 2015, 05:34:45 PM
I reckon the new games will succeed or fail on their own merits.

And GW's ability to get people to trust them again after losing the Specialist Games and their previous behaviour towards them, I'm afraid. A lot of people haven't entirely forgiven them their mass ludicide.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on November 15, 2015, 07:39:56 PM
I think it's unfair to say Mantic just nicked the ideas and kickstarted some games. Dreadball for example plays very different to blood bowl and are really two very different beasts. Whilst the concept of a 'sports' style game might not be original you could be more accurate to say Mantic nicked the ideas from Peter Adolph. After all, Subbuteo predates Blood Bowl by a good few decades...

On topic though, I can only agree with the likes of Vermis. The number of people I have seen on social media ecstatic that their favourite games are coming back is just ridiculous. The never went away! The 'support' from GW was free rules and a small range of miniatures. Almost all of the specialist games have a better support in the hands of the players. I've never got the whole dead game idea. Just because a company no longer sells it, doesn't mean you can't play it.

As for the IP issues, I can see all sides of the argument. I personally have never felt constrained to use only one company's miniatures. I have conformed for a tournament once but as I dislike the general concept of a wargames tournament now it matters not where my miniatures come from. I have a lot of GW miniatures and really like them don't get me wrong, it's just a lack of certain miniatures from a website won't stop me using some imagination or fiddling with fluff to suit myself.

Overall I think it's good that there may be some new box sets with nice figures and components. It may also increase the number of people looking into games I currently play. I dread the very likely possibility that there will be some negative pressure applied to those that have spent many hours for the vendor of others like the guys at Yak and Net Epic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on November 15, 2015, 09:35:49 PM
Anyone eyeballing any mini I put on the table with the words 'You can't/are not allowed to use that!' is going to get the answer: 'OK, anyone else for a game? - And good luck with finding another gaming buddy, btw!'

Simple as that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 15, 2015, 09:54:48 PM
I don't think anyone here was making the argument that you had to use official miniatures for Specialist Games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 15, 2015, 11:49:46 PM
Quote from: Mr Brown on November 15, 2015, 07:39:56 PM
As for the IP issues, I can see all sides of the argument. I personally have never felt constrained to use only one company's miniatures. I have conformed for a tournament once but as I dislike the general concept of a wargames tournament now it matters not where my miniatures come from. I have a lot of GW miniatures and really like them don't get me wrong, it's just a lack of certain miniatures from a website won't stop me using some imagination or fiddling with fluff to suit myself.

After a twenty-year-plus hiatus from fantasy gaming, I was astonished to find that considerable numbers of people appear to believe that only certain miniatures should be used with specific games. I can remember one of the the early editions of Warhammer (second?) actively encouraging the use of any models with the game, including 54mm. And then there was that Warhammer poster that showed Minifigs pig-faced orcs alongside Citadel's Fantasy Tribes ...

Things have, rather depressingly, changed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 16, 2015, 12:06:33 AM
Unless people are spoon-fed now, they starve. Ugh....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 16, 2015, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: Mr Brown on November 15, 2015, 07:39:56 PM
Just because a company no longer sells it, doesn't mean you can't play it.

It's a bit more complicated than that. I can play it, but the figures that make me want to play it are not necessarily available and may be too difficult to convert - sci-fi tribals clad in giant rat pelts, fantasy warrior nuns with hammers, sleek curvy spaceships with sail-like fins (or fin-like sails, whatever). Fiddling with the fluff so I can play the ruleset without the figures that make the setting attractive would defeat the purpose.

That's not to say I want the figures to be made specifically by GW. I just want the figures to be made, period. If GW makes the figures, fine. If a third-party manufacturer makes good substitutes, better. I dislike GW and admire third-party manufacturers that come from and cater to the fanbase, but neither of those things will stop me buying from GW if they've got the figures I want and no one else makes substitutes.

That said, my suspicion as things stand is that GW will turn out to not make the figures I want, after all. I feel that expecting GW to "re-explore" the full potential of the SGs with a steady progression of expansion sets would be to build castles in the air. Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong (because board-miniature game hybrids based on an "expansion sets" business model are clearly on the upswing in the industry at large, and presumably quite lucrative), but with their track record for the past 10-15 years, it only feels right to be cynical at this point and just expect a few Dreadfleet-style one-offs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cherno on November 16, 2015, 09:14:41 AM
Next thing you tell me, it's called "Wargaming"instead of "the GW Hobby"!  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on November 16, 2015, 09:47:53 AM
We all agree just how much the world has changed in the last ten years...
Loads of small companies now make excellent minis that can be used in any game.
Rule sets having become living' things.
Games that GW started many years ago, and dis owned in some cases, now flourish around the world.

But GW is still GW...

So now imagine what would happen if GW launched a kickstarter for Mordhiem or Epic or Bloodbowl....
Now there's an idea....

 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 16, 2015, 09:53:10 AM
Quote from: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on November 16, 2015, 09:47:53 AM
So now imagine what would happen if GW launched a kickstarter for Mordhiem or Epic or Bloodbowl....
Now there's an idea....

 :D

Not their thing. I don't think there are many of 10-year-olds on Kickstarter... :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 16, 2015, 11:21:49 AM
Quote from: Rhoderic on November 16, 2015, 09:53:10 AM
Not their thing. I don't think there are many of 10-year-olds on Kickstarter... :P

Sometimes I feel like kick starter is only 12 year olds with their parents credit cards.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on November 16, 2015, 11:47:04 AM
Quote from: YPU on November 16, 2015, 11:21:49 AM
Sometimes I feel like kick starter is only 12 year olds with their parents credit cards.

Nope. Grown-ups with self-control of a 12 year old.

Based on observing a friend of mine... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 16, 2015, 12:19:12 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on November 16, 2015, 11:47:04 AM
Nope. Grown-ups with self-control of a 12 year old.


Guilty.

Me when I saw the Blood Rage Kickstarter : "Oh man, I've got to have this! All of it!!"

Me when it came through : "Holy crap, that's way more stuff than I thought it would be, I can't possibly paint all this."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 16, 2015, 03:50:19 PM
A bunch of agreements here: Hobgoblin, Grant, Rhoderic, Dolmot...

Quote from: Gibby on November 15, 2015, 09:54:48 PM
I don't think anyone here was making the argument that you had to use official miniatures for Specialist Games.

Maybe not here, but when you've witnessed forum topics, started just to complain about folk using cheaper proxies in 40K/FB, as if it's cheating ("I paid for my obscenely expensive model! I should get something more from it than these people.") then you know someone's going to make that argument, somewhere.

Quote from: Hobgoblin on November 15, 2015, 11:49:46 PM
After a twenty-year-plus hiatus from fantasy gaming, I was astonished to find that considerable numbers of people appear to believe that only certain miniatures should be used with specific games.

Yup. And most of the time it's not even people actively complaining about proxies - it's that it just doesn't seem to occur to them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on November 16, 2015, 09:10:04 PM
Quote from: Gibby on November 15, 2015, 09:54:48 PM
I don't think anyone here was making the argument that you had to use official miniatures for Specialist Games.

My remark was a comment on this:

Quote from: Mr Brown on November 15, 2015, 07:39:56 PM
I dread the very likely possibility that there will be some negative pressure applied to those that have spent many hours for the vendor of others like the guys at Yak and Net Epic.

I realize now that I am not quite sure what is meant by it, but I read it as how Vermis responded.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on November 16, 2015, 09:36:05 PM
There must have been a weird auto correct from my tablet. The word vendor should have been benefit.

Apologies and I can see where there would be confusion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 17, 2015, 11:55:07 AM
Quote from: Vermis on November 16, 2015, 03:50:19 PM
A bunch of agreements here: Hobgoblin, Grant, Rhoderic, Dolmot...

Maybe not here, but when you've witnessed forum topics, started just to complain about folk using cheaper proxies in 40K/FB, as if it's cheating ("I paid for my obscenely expensive model! I should get something more from it than these people.") then you know someone's going to make that argument, somewhere.

Yup. And most of the time it's not even people actively complaining about proxies - it's that it just doesn't seem to occur to them.

What happened to the rest of your post? I thought your analysis of special rules, etc., was really interesting and illuminating!

The whole phenomenon strikes me as really odd in the light of the Warhammer 2nd and 3rd edition armies that my friends and I played with as kids. I had an orcish horde that had Citadel orcs as its largest component, but was brimming with models from Grenadier, Essex, Ral Partha, RAFM and the like. My friends' dwarf, chaos, elf and human armies were similarly varied, as were my lizardmen (Runequest dragonewts, D&D troglodytes, all manner of Grenadier reptiles).

And that sort of approach was the rule. Look at Bryan Ansell's famous chaos army (http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/oldhammer-weekend-2015-bryan-ansells.html) (which featured in Warhammer 3rd edition and Warhammer Armies): it's got large numbers of non-Citadel figures (http://eldritchepistles.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/bryans-cabinets-of-chaos-mystery.html). It also has lots of figures used as creatures other than what they were sold as: I see, for example, a chaos goblin used as beastman, skeletons used as chaos warriors, a manticore used as a beastman, beastmen used as chaos warriors, and so on.

That, of course, is exactly what fantasy wargaming should be about - using creativity and imagination to achieve striking results that look good on the table. Why not use an orc or a goblin as a beastman if it fits? And you can almost certainly make it fit with imagination and paintwork. But isn't it an irony that Bryan Ansell's chaos army - the same chaos army that featured in material for the first, second and third editions of the game - would be illegal (from what I gather) in many Warhammer tournaments. And, worse, sniffed at by Warhammer players!

If I may address your (great but deleted) points about special rules to go with specific miniatures, I can remember very clearly when a gaming friend and I switched, quite abruptly, from Warhammer to Hordes of the Things (it must have been the year it was first published). It was the last hurrah of the first phase of our wargaming, before university and sport lowered their portcullis for 20-odd years. But it was a revelation. Rather than working with fiddly and unbalanced rules for particular models, you just looked at them, worked out which generic troop type represented them best, and based them accordingly. I still have some heavily armoured orcs on thin multi-bases who were "blades" and many more lightly armoured types who were "warbands", and so on. And the generic approach instantly removed questions of balance and "power play". Lion/Dragon Rampant does exactly the same, as does Battlesworn. But there's no shortage of flavour - that comes from the overall composition and, of course, the miniatures themselves!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 17, 2015, 08:30:32 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on November 17, 2015, 11:55:07 AM
What happened to the rest of your post? I thought your analysis of special rules, etc., was really interesting and illuminating!

Posted too many of those long lectures lately, I felt. Too full of seasonal viruses to maintain my rage at the mo. Don't worry though, you'll probably see it again. It's like a terrier with a rat. A nerdy terrier with access to the internet. Worst. Rat. Ever.

To drag a bit of it back now, though, I agree with your own points. I only discovered Warhammer in 6th ed (dumped sometime during 7th) but even without experience of the first 2-3 editions, I started to think that it was way too tailored towards selling the right models to match the right special rules in the right game. Didn't help that the attitude seemed to worm it's way into many gamers, making them almost dependent on a game company handing them a complete, prepackaged experience, and from what I can see it hampers them, in different ways.
They say that the Warhammer background and aesthetic give them the most pleasure, so they find GW's rising prices reasonable and they'll keep paying them; while GW assumes the same, ignores rules development, and keeps bumping the prices up to unreasonable levels until they finally leave or the game implodes. They're reliant on special rules intertwined with background to provide 'flavour', complain that their armies are now 'useless', and can't conceive of taking the fluff and minis and using them in a different, smaller game. Until GW itself foists it upon them. (Well, the ones that stuck around, anyway)
Even after moving on to other games, the culture sticks around. Not too unreasonable to assume pickup games proliferated through GW providing everything down to gaming opportunities and venues? But then if you're used to that, you can't start a new game unless there are a dozen others already playing it. (Heck, I've seen people claim that the fact GW's core 2 are played worldwide is a reason to keep playing them, as if pickup gaming is a big thing in foreign holidays.) If you turn up unannounced to the regular gaming night and sit around waiting for a pickup with your new game, when everyone's only expecting and jonesing for 40K, then the game's an automatic failure. An intro game, or historical-style project or hosted game, where one player assembles and provides all materials, is too much work, if it's thought of at all.

But again, to be fair to Rhoderic: it's not quite as black and white as all that when you can't select individual settings, minis, and rulesets yourself, because the minis don't exist for distinctive parts of the settings, at least. (But I'm going to blame that on the 3-in-1 prepackage anyway! Great for business and for gamers when it's around, not so great for gamers who still like it when the business chops it)

Rules... I agree with you. It only helps to realise that most of the background and aesthetics are right there in the background and minis, and as you say the overall army composition, and that you can judge rules by their playability rather than other invented goalposts. The genericness (or as I prefer: the inclusivity) of rules is a plus, in my eyes, when looking at new sets. Hordes of the Things was perhaps a bit too general for my tastes, I admit - I prefer the stat-building and bit of extra chrome of Mayhem. (Though I'm tickled that bits of it's Stronghold expansion seem tailored to provide a generic alternative to special-rules-heavy Warmachine)
Dragon Rampant... I feel Dragon Rampant has lots of potential: small, portable, cheap book; smaller scale fantasy games (arguably better suited to 28mm and character-focused gaming); simple and quick-playing; use whichever models you like. To me it's the game AoS could have been, focused on the carefully constructed general mechanics than on unique unit rules.

But at the same time I think it's going to be dismissed by a lot of fantasy gamers, who think it should naturally be the other way round, let alone how they prefer it: focused on the special rules rather than the base mechanics. Generic, inclusive profiles are 'bland' and 'unfluffy'. Like I said in the deleted bit, a chunk of the WFB player base were all but forced into KoW with the switch from 8th ed to AoS, and were surprised to find how much they enjoyed unit-element gaming with simple, intuitive mechanics and a paucity of special rules. But there are still others who can't even give it a try because they think it's too bare. It can't work without special rules.
On that matter, I see the term 'synergy' pop up more, these days, as an ideal and as praise of wargames. Maybe I'm misunderstanding it, or being too harsh; but when I see it applied to games like 40K, Warmachine, Malifaux, Infinity, and especially AoS, I can only guess it's more about the best combos of special rules of minis that you can then assemble (read: buy), than on tactical decisions allowed by the base rules.

Not that I'm worried about Dragon Rampant, or KoW for that matter. Dan's a big boy and I know there are plenty lining up, waiting for the book's release. It's that, as I say, people hobble their hobby (heh) by assuming the non-WH style of gaming is boring or unviable or too much of a bother. To use the term that's bandied about when GW shakes things up: they invalidate their own armies. It's their loss.
And maybe I shouldn't worry about them either, but it should be such a simple switch to flick that doesn't invalidate the old way, but opens up a lot more possibilities. It's a great, wide hobby! No need to cut yourself off from big chunks of it, for more reasons than are necessary.

Well, I still had a grumpy rant in me. Who'da thunk.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on November 17, 2015, 08:38:12 PM
 lol

All too true.

And then there are those of us always building both sides of things, because it's the only way we get to play the games we want.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 17, 2015, 09:26:01 PM
Quote from: Argonor on November 17, 2015, 08:38:12 PM
And then there are those of us always building both sides of things, because it's the only way we get to play the games we want.  ;)

So true. The biggest paradigm shift I've had in this hobby was when I switched over to being a "collect both sides" type of hobbyist. I know it has its downsides but even accounting for them, I'm much happier for making the switch.

No longer do I ask other hobbyists "What army do you collect?". Now I ask them "What's your project right now?".

Of course there's respectable games like Frostgrave, SoBH and KoW which allow for or are even designed for "your army/warband versus my army/warband" pick-up gaming sessions or club campaigns, but even with such games, I prefer an approach that's more along the lines of "Shall I bring my matched set of Melniboneans and Pan Tangians, or are you bringing your Drow and Duergar?".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 18, 2015, 11:51:22 AM
@ Vermis:

As usual, I agree!

That said, a few salient points I wanted to touch on since we're discussing/ranting:

Synergy

This term is bandied about a lot nowadays, it's true. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to discriminate between "combo games" like Malifaux and Warmachine, and "tactical games" like Infinity.

I feel that model-specific rules that rely on other models' specific rules to work themselves fall into that first category, and if done poorly can result in armies getting stale quickly. This because you feel coerced into including all the models in the rules-chain, and then further obliged into playing them in the proscribed way, and this in turn leaves players with relatively few "free" decisions to make for themselves. Some Malifaux crews fall into this, and for a long while I felt the same about Warmachine too (which in part why we drifted away from it).

Other games like Infinity don't have this so much, and rely on the skill of the designers to balance models and on the players to use them to their best advantage in any moment. Yes, Infinity has a myriad of special rules, but it's also pretty much totally free in terms of what actions you can take and how many times a model can be activated - the opposite of the other two games  mentioned. In these games, the synergy comes from actual tactical decisions, and yet I'm constantly surprised to see on the Infinity boards how people jump in with the special abilities, forget to learn how to play the game at it's basic level, and then whine that their opponents are not being rolled by whatever models they've just spent lots of money on.

Games like AoS and 40k... I see lots of special rules, and some buff/de-buff abilities too, but I don't see much synergy as I've outlined it above. I don't know if it's because of the number of models in a typical game, the limitations of the rules, or the nature of the scenarios/scoring system. Whatever the reason, it is pretty clear that the special rules are there to distinguish units/models, and not to provide a game experience.


Official Rules & Official Models

I am always baffled by this.

If the models you like are suitable and aren't ridiculously confusing when playing a game, then use them. Beyond that... Asking for a ruleset to be generic is as dumb to me as asking for generic models.

What I mean by this is that the rules are usually themed because this creates several useful features: it captures a defined look and feel which people find appealing, it sets a natural boundary on expectations on what they will cover, and it provides a scope for the size/type of the game and it's rules mechanics. The theme also provides the basis of story hooks, which allow for narrative scenarios to play as well, and which I prefer to line-em-up-and-kill-each-other scenarios that are devoid of much imagination.

However, none of that means that you can't play with other models, or prevents players from using a "counts-as" approach. Nothing stops you playing Antares with Mantic models, or playing Infinity with GW models, or Malifaux with Westwind models, or a mix, or whatever. In other words, you don't need generic rulesets any more than you need specific manufacturer models, and many themes can be transposed as well (for example, you can play a Star Wars game with Warmachine or with a superheroes ruleset if you want, and both allow you to focus on the ever-popular Jedi/Sith).

What I do feel however is that rulesets that try to cater for everything are usually pretty much impossible to make in a satisfying way as a game. As a means to get whatever is in your collection onto the table for a bit of dice-rolling, they are fine. This is because the rules-writers cannot possibly know what's in everyone's collection, and by providing all possible options they can think of, the game is nearly impossible to balance or fully detail - and that's where they fail for me.

What I don't really see is the appeal of rules that just involve rolling lots of dice and use reference tables as a substitute for proper rules mechanics - they don't require much more from me than to roll dice and hope for the best, and I don't find that very engaging. For me, rolling dice is not a game, and rolling more dice doesn't make a game more fun.

Unfortunately, that last point has always been a feature of many GW games and I find it hard to be/stay interested in them as a result. I know GW can write better rules (as they've done so in the past, and is another reason why I think the popularity of games like Necromunda and Mordheim has endured so long), so I am inevitably disappointed when I then see rules like those for AoS.


My Toys Are Better

Companies that make games and models are businesses. I know we all know this, but I feel the need to state it again as a reminder. To stay in business, they need to make money; they do this by making more / newer / bigger models, and by releasing more / newer / bigger games.

At some point, I think it's nearly impossible to create a game that caters for those who spent a mortgage payment and six months of work on a single giant model and those who got some old second-hand infantry models and dipped them all in one evening (and BTW: I don't think one is more "right" or "fun" than the other either).

The player with the big toy will feel upset that his efforts are wasted if it isn't the focus of the game and stomps all over everything; the player with the cheap troops will feel aggrieved if they just get stomped every time because he perceives that the game has been reduced to a "pay to win" affair that doesn't allow him to participate properly on his resources.

I know this is a bit of a stilted/extreme example, but it's part of the reason games like 40k Apocalypse were created - to give players an excuse to buy and play with giant toys and seas of models well beyond what was required for 40k.

I therefore think another reason that skirmish-scale games seem to be very popular now is in part because their size acts as a limit in terms of pay-to-win, as giant expensive models and seas of troops are basically excluded by game constraints. In other words, it's a reaction against games like Apocalypse and the latest versions of 40k/WHFB/AoS!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on November 18, 2015, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 18, 2015, 11:51:22 AM
Games like AoS and 40k... I see lots of special rules, and some buff/de-buff abilities too, but I don't see much synergy as I've outlined it above. I don't know if it's because of the number of models in a typical game, the limitations of the rules, or the nature of the scenarios/scoring system. Whatever the reason, it is pretty clear that the special rules are there to distinguish units/models, and not to provide a game experience.

Untrue in respect to AoS. All scenarios have special rules designed explicitly to enhance the gaming experience... kind of like that Frostgave game.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 18, 2015, 11:51:22 AM
I therefore think another reason that skirmish-scale games seem to be very popular now is in part because their size acts as a limit in terms of pay-to-win, as giant expensive models and seas of troops are basically excluded by game constraints. In other words, it's a reaction against games like Apocalypse and the latest versions of 40k/WHFB/AoS!

Huh? AoS is a skirmish-scale game the last time I checked.

But no worry, I am sure in no time GW will be filling for bankruptcy.  lol

Keep it up boys, you're doing a great job!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2015, 04:57:11 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 18, 2015, 03:10:47 PM
Untrue in respect to AoS. All scenarios have special rules designed explicitly to enhance the gaming experience... kind of like that Frostgave game.

Huh? AoS is a skirmish-scale game the last time I checked.

But no worry, I am sure in no time GW will be filling for bankruptcy.  lol

Keep it up boys, you're doing a great job!

Nah there is plenty of life left in the old nag for them to flog out of it for a few more years yet  ;D

Still, they do have a limitless talent to generate a debate or two which is good.

Its clear though  that many continue to have doubts about their decisions, but as Major_Gilbear already reminded us, they are in the business of making money, and if their method and choices on how to do that disagree with those of others, they don't have to care, even if its part of the customer base that disagrees..

They started into this business primarily as a reseller of other companies products, a small gaming mag, and licensed product, before being able to present to market any of their own products (other than the magazine if I remember correctly).

For a long time they have been doing only their own product now, probably longer than they were a reseller as such. Fair enough. I don't need to buy into all of it, I can enjoy some of it, if I think its for me and my pocket same as any other stuff ::)

I did look at the 80 odd quid horus heresy boxy set thing at Warfare Reading last weekend, was not particularly fussed or impressed and put it back down again. Bought other stuff not GW, that did interest me.

Wait and see what they do next and maybe I might bite, maybe not.

Guarantee though that they won't go bust over my not giving them my money again :D

I feel ok either way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 18, 2015, 05:07:58 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 18, 2015, 03:10:47 PM
But no worry, I am sure in no time GW will be filling for bankruptcy.  lol

Keep it up boys, you're doing a great job!

Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2015, 04:57:11 PM
Guarantee though that they won't go bust over my not giving them my money again :D

Not sure how we got into this subject. No one (at least in the more recent discussions in this thread) has been either predicting nor vocally wishing for GW to go bust.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2015, 05:12:09 PM
Agree.

So can we get back to the more interesting debated things?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 18, 2015, 05:45:17 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 18, 2015, 11:51:22 AM

Official Rules & Official Models

I am always baffled by this.

If the models you like are suitable and aren't ridiculously confusing when playing a game, then use them. Beyond that... Asking for a ruleset to be generic is as dumb to me as asking for generic models.

What I mean by this is that the rules are usually themed because this creates several useful features: it captures a defined look and feel which people find appealing, it sets a natural boundary on expectations on what they will cover, and it provides a scope for the size/type of the game and it's rules mechanics. The theme also provides the basis of story hooks, which allow for narrative scenarios to play as well, and which I prefer to line-em-up-and-kill-each-other scenarios that are devoid of much imagination.

I agree with nearly all of what you say, but I don't really understand your reservation about generic rules. As an example, all of the fantasy rules I like best are generic: Song of Blades and Heroes, Lion/Dragon Rampant, Hordes of the Things. And, of course, the early iterations of Warhammer, in which the "Warhammer world" was only very faintly sketched, if at all; it was only there by implication (i.e. the bestiary implied a specific, if unstated, setting), I think, in the first edition.

I too massively prefer narrative scenarios, but that's actually why I prefer generic rules. You don't get any of the "these guys can't possibly side with these guys" stuff, and if you want to have wicked dwarves allied with goblins (spot the Tolkien precedent!) to raid an elven keep, you can. I also think that "game worlds" (with the exception of a few, notably Glorantha) tend to be pretty thin, compared with what you can rustle up from books, myths and folklore.

To continue a little along the tangent and perhaps bend it back to the main topic, I thought the genius of the original Warhammer 40K was that the setting was so broad and vague that it was simply a framework for whatever story you wanted to create on whatever far-flung planet. The background was a set of tools and suggestions, rather than anything with constraints. That seems to have ebbed away in subsequent editions, along with the facility to create your own profiles, which was a notable feature of second-edition Warhammer and (if memory serves) first-edition WH40K (I don't recall anyone calling it "Rogue Trader" at the time - the current vogue for doing so seems somewhat revisionist to me!).

Similarly, the joy of the tremendous scenarios for second-edition Warhammer was that they could be plonked down in any fantasy setting with minimal effort; the background pertained largely to the scenario itself rather than the wider world. So, steppe nomads attack a hobgoblin convoy; a usurper fights clansmen; a necromancer and ratmen clash at a remote monastery; orcs muster to raid the lands of men. And so on. Again, that seemed to be eroded as subsequent editions became more heavily invested in "the world".

Age of Sigmar seems, to me at least, to be the antithesis of all that. It's so specific in its troop types and (judging from the rules) has little obvious capacity for allowing, say, a troop of goblin archers mounted on giant lizards or even something as simple as orcish wolfriders. Warhammer 2nd embraced all that - as do the likes of SBH, LR/DR and HOTT. The one thing I do like about it (again, from reading the rules rather than playing) is the built-in facility for asymmetrical games, which seem to me A Very Good Thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 18, 2015, 05:51:47 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 18, 2015, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 18, 2015, 11:51:22 AM
Games like AoS and 40k... I see lots of special rules, and some buff/de-buff abilities too, but I don't see much synergy as I've outlined it above. I don't know if it's because of the number of models in a typical game, the limitations of the rules, or the nature of the scenarios/scoring system. Whatever the reason, it is pretty clear that the special rules are there to distinguish units/models, and not to provide a game experience.
Untrue in respect to AoS. All scenarios have special rules designed explicitly to enhance the gaming experience... kind of like that Frostgave game.

So, AoS scenario special rules add in that synergy between models or level of tactical play that's otherwise missing from the game? Any scenario rules in particular? I don't seem to have ever seen any that I would class that way, but it's always possible I've missed them.

Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 18, 2015, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 18, 2015, 11:51:22 AM
I therefore think another reason that skirmish-scale games seem to be very popular now is in part because their size acts as a limit in terms of pay-to-win, as giant expensive models and seas of troops are basically excluded by game constraints. In other words, it's a reaction against games like Apocalypse and the latest versions of 40k/WHFB/AoS!
Huh? AoS is a skirmish-scale game the last time I checked.

Yes, game with eyewateringly-priced giant models that are highly-specific and which have lots of special rules to make them feel worth their high price in game. Together almost no formal limits on what players can choose to put on the table, it's why it got added to the example.

Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 18, 2015, 03:10:47 PM
But no worry, I am sure in no time GW will be filling for bankruptcy.  lol

 ???

Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 18, 2015, 03:10:47 PM
Keep it up boys, you're doing a great job!

 ??? ???

Quote from: Rhoderic on November 18, 2015, 05:07:58 PM
Not sure how we got into this subject. No one (at least in the more recent discussions in this thread) has been either predicting nor vocally wishing for GW to go bust.

Because some people cannot follow a line of argument without getting overly defensive about their favourite thing and missing the point. ::)

@ Hobgoblin:

You make some good points, and I agree with much of your post. I'd like to ruminate a bit before I give you a fuller reply though. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 18, 2015, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on November 18, 2015, 05:45:17 PM
That seems to have ebbed away in subsequent editions, along with the facility to create your own profiles, which was a notable feature of second-edition Warhammer and (if memory serves) first-edition WH40K (I don't recall anyone calling it "Rogue Trader" at the time - the current vogue for doing so seems somewhat revisionist to me!).


It's the subtitle. From memory at our club we kind of switched between calling it 40k and Rogue Trader. Perhaps it's because none of the other editions were called Rogue Trader, just the first one?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Rogue_trader_cover.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 18, 2015, 07:04:18 PM
Major Gilbear: agreed about the possibility of special rules chain reactions locking players into a certain way of doing things. If GW's core 2 don't have the same kind of combo synergy, I feel it's a similar kind of focus on listbuilding, even mathammer. (Mathmachine? Mathifaux?)

On Infinity: I guess I was too harsh and misunderstanding about that, then. I've heard a bit about how tactical it is, but also a couple of complaints about the sheer mass of rules. (Having a glimpse of the enormous current edition rulebook didn't help. I'm tempted, but it's fairly intimidating.)

Ninja'd by Hobgoblin's post, which nicely elaborates how I feel too. Although I also agree with you about being able to switch models around. I've an old Inquisitor cyber-mastiff standing in as a Malifaux guild hunter, as one wee example - but overall my experience is like Hobgoblin's: a lot of people won't go for it, at least not in meaningful numbers.
I think it's still got something to do with the close ties of special rules to characters or units in the big, popular games. If you want to play in one setting and it's accompanying wargame rules are rubbish or nonexistant, I think the transition might be mechanically and psychologically easier with a setting-free ruleset, than with a game highly tailored to another setting.
To use my own Malifaux crew as an example again: the character C. Hoffman has a lot of rules on his 1st ed card, with reference to a lot of bits and pieces of his model and backstory - his disability, his powered exoskeleton, his magical affinity with machines, etc. It might be possible to replace the model with another VSF inventor type in the game, but IMO difficult to substitute in any other, or characters from a fairly different setting or theme. (I think it might have to be a very specific jedi...) Much easier to take the Hoffman mini out of the rules and whip up some suitable stats in another, inclusive game, like IHMN.
But most players won't feel like bothering. They'll see that Wyrd provide Hoffman's Malifaux backstory and Hoffman's Malifaux rules, and sell a Hoffman mini for you to use in Malifaux. Might as well just go with that...

I'm surprised at the assertion that generic rules are inherently unbalanced, too. Particularly compared to the power creep and rules churn of some of the setting-oriented games. (Poster boy, 40K) Did you have any set of rules in mind?

(How did we get onto this from GW games, again?  lol )

Ray:

Quote
AoS is a skirmish-scale game the last time I checked.

Does it have game constraints in the way the Major described, though? A maximum limit of model numbers and size? The former (or lack of it) is one of the complaints that's regularly levelled against it, and I hear a few folk talking about the 'scalability' of the game. And I figure people need something to do with all those end times Nagashes, vermin lords, plastic bloodthirsters and whatnot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on November 18, 2015, 07:47:10 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 18, 2015, 05:51:47 PM
So, AoS scenario special rules add in that synergy between models or level of tactical play that's otherwise missing from the game? Any scenario rules in particular? I don't seem to have ever seen any that I would class that way, but it's always possible I've missed them.

You need to approach the game for what it is, not for what you want it to be.. as in Warhammer. It is a totally different game. Folks who want AoS to be somehow Warhammer in disguise always seem to believe there are no tactics to the game (because they play AoS as if it was Warhammer) but that is based on ignorance and not in fact.

And of course, there are special rules for each scenario which are scenario specific as it is an objective oriented skirmish game capable of being played with asymmetrical forces.

It should be noted that historically most of the greatest battles ever fought were between asymmetrical forces (Cannae, for example) and though my memory sometimes fails me, I cannot think of a single circumstance in history when 2 opposing generals meet first and decided on what forces they could bring to the battlefield.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 18, 2015, 05:51:47 PM
Yes, game with eyewateringly-priced giant models that are highly-specific and which have lots of special rules to make them feel worth their high price in game. Together almost no formal limits on what players can choose to put on the table, it's why it got added to the example.

A non sequitur argument. (Which means you evaded the argument by talking trash.)

You attempted to lump AoS with Warhammer and WH 40K as "army games" which is a misrepresentation which calls into question your ability to speak with any authority concerning the game.

If you all want any credibility you at least have to base your argument on facts and not fantasy... however, it would appear that lots of folks around here prefer fantasy to fact.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 18, 2015, 10:56:05 PM
@ Vermis:

On infinity... Well!  :)

I have the original early pdf rules and all three subsequently-printed editions. All three editions are characterised by an astonishing number of skills, weapons, actions, and exceptions to learn. It is a good game, and it is surprisingly well balanced - but it's a big learning curve, and the game rewards calculated risk-taking, careful planning, and a good eye/memory for detail. I know it's not for everybody, but I really think that the "help" most people seem to receive in learning the game often strips people of that learning curve, and you need that learning experience for the game to click with you properly. Aspects like the order declaration sequence are a specific area that's never 100% been clarified, and I suspect that it's because CB don't want to alienate a big vocal (mostly American) chunk of their player base by telling them they're playing it wrong.



Moving onto using specific rules for other things...

You cite Malifaux and Hoffman in your examples.

I use plenty of proxies in regular games, but I try to ensure that they fit visually. For example, I use the Black Scorpion Mexicans with pistols as Latigo Pistoleros, I use different dogs for Guild Hounds in my Guild and Arcanist factions, I have a third party Flesh Golem, I use a converted Iron Kingdoms model as Hans the sniper, and so on. But I do make sure that the models and such are as suitable as I can - it's about carrying the approriate theme for me, and I don't like models that break that for me. (This is the same for all the games I play BTW - I always manage to include non-official models in everything from Necromunda to Infinity, from WHFB to Warmachine).

With regards to mapping a specific game to a different specific theme, I see where you're coming from. However, rather than saying "my character has x, y, and z", you could say that that he or she is an older intellectual type with a knack for mechanical devices. You could then look at Ramos, Hoffman and Leviticus, and decide which one your character fits best; you then adapt the context of the chosen rules to suit your background. You could still use Malifaux as a Star Wars game if you wanted to - Jedi and Sith could be characters like Lilith, Viktorias, Rasputina, Misaki, Lady Justice, and even Perdita (if you count her pistols as thrown  sabres). Smuggler characters would map well to the likes of Lucas, Ironsides, or Colette. a Fett-like bounty hunter maps to Kaeris, and so on. It's only if you want a specific pre-determined character that it causes problems with this. Also, I admit, some games don't map too well to some specific themes. Then again, you could play Inquisitor with the Malifaux rules for example, and I think it would work really well.

Quote from: Vermis on November 18, 2015, 07:04:18 PM
Major Gilbear: agreed about the possibility of special rules chain reactions locking players into a certain way of doing things. If GW's core 2 don't have the same kind of combo synergy, I feel it's a similar kind of focus on listbuilding, even mathammer. (Mathmachine? Mathifaux?)

I feel it's a bit different though. Those Space Marines with combi-flamers and special ammunition may be great for their points statistically, but in the end they don't have much direct interaction with the rest of your force. In Malifaux or Warmachine, if you don't include certain models, and keep them positioned in a cetain way, and use thier specific abilities in a specific way, then the army just simply falls flat on its face and that's that. Yes, all games with lists have some level of pre-game-game that is list-building, but it's more... Important (?) with some games than others to have a specific selection of models/units if you want a reasonable chance of a closely-fought game becuase of the higly specific way they interact with each other.

Quote from: Vermis on November 18, 2015, 07:04:18 PM
I'm surprised at the assertion that generic rules are inherently unbalanced, too. Particularly compared to the power creep and rules churn of some of the setting-oriented games. (Poster boy, 40K) Did you have any set of rules in mind?

I wasn't really considering power creep as much as thinking that by letting players have total freedom in building units (because, as a generic ruleset you have to allow for everything - that's sort of the point, no?), you either lose the ability to have suitable representation because it's too generic (which makes the ruleset a bit pointless to begin with) or risk having things be unbalanced because you cannot cater to every possible combination of skills/equipment/weapons/etc and make them all equally fair in some way.

I didn't really have a specific ruleset in mind, but you can see this to some extent with games like AE: Bounty (which is a generic space opera ruleset). Some combinations of skills and traits and equipment are just far too good compared to others, yet individually none of those things is particualrly unfair. So you say "okay, well just self-police and don't use those combinations"? Well, yes, but then that limits what you can represent - using the rules to portray an Imperial Guardsmen or Ork is okay, but a Space Marine assault trooper or an Eldar Harlequin? Not so much because they combine key rules that you're trying to avoid combining. This limitation in turn makes using them not very different to my earlier Malifaux example afterall, but also has a less interesting game mechanic as well.

I have the same issues with games like Future War Commander, Tomorrow's War, and a fair few other rulesets that I have. Really generic rulesets that are not even sci-fi/fantasy/historically-themed I haven't tried, I admit.

Quote from: Vermis on November 18, 2015, 07:04:18 PM
(How did we get onto this from GW games, again?  lol )

Becuase GW makes miniatures - however they don't make games apparently, which is why we're discussing rulesets that you can plug other miniatures into presumably!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 19, 2015, 09:52:09 AM
Quote from: Cubs on November 18, 2015, 06:29:00 PM
It's the subtitle. From memory at our club we kind of switched between calling it 40k and Rogue Trader. Perhaps it's because none of the other editions were called Rogue Trader, just the first one?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Rogue_trader_cover.jpg)

Yes, I remember that the full title was a mouthful - I think this was even joked about around the time of the release. But everyone I played with called it "Warhammer 40,000" or "40K". The impression that we had at the time was that Rogue Trader was the game that they had been going to release for ages, but that it had been usurped by Warhammer 40,000, and so the subtitle was just a nod to the abandoned/mutated original project.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 19, 2015, 11:26:07 AM
I think "40k" is just used colloquially to refer to whatever edition of the game was/is current. And whilst "Rogue Trader" was used in the day too, in later years, "Rogue Trader" was easier to say than "40k first edition" and so I guess it stuck.

BTW, there is an interesting interview with Rick Priestly about the very early RT here (http://talesfromthemaelstrom.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/rick-priestley-interview.html) which might be interesting to anyone who's not seen it yet. I remembered it because he explains how the game got such a relatively long-winded name:

Quote from: Rick Priestly on September 25, 2011
[...]The original game called Rogue Trader was a spaceship role-playing and combat game that I’d written before I joined GW – I also designed a range of spaceships for it some of which ended up in the Spacefleet range.

I brought all that to GW when I joined. The term Rogue Trader didn’t have any connotations of crooked City dealers at the time – and wouldn’t for quite a long while to come.

The original RT universe was a proto-version of the 40K background. So, some of the major spacefaring races were already worked out Eldar (elves), Orks (Orcs), as was the idea of the Imperium as this sprawling medieval realm spread precariously throughout warp space.
 
Hence the Rogue Traders –captains plying the boundaries of space ‘boldly going’ in Star Trek style. Some of the background to that game ended up in the back of the final Rogue Trader book, and some was used in Battlefleet Gothic. But the actual RT book was really a development of the Warhammer fantasy game for SF – and we’d started to do some of the groundwork for that in the Citadel Journals. So ultimately – the two games were different.
 
Because we’d actually said we were doing this game called Rogue Trader we had to use the title for the new game. But by then we had the 2000AD licence for Rogue Trooper and it was felt that this would be confusing – so we had to call RT both Rogue Trader AND Warhammer ‘something’ to avoid confusion. And the something ended up being 40,000. It looked like an awful mouthful at the time.

I remember Bryan said we’d call it Warhammer 3000 or some such – which wasn’t unlike any number of SF games in style – and I said, ‘well – it’s set 40,000 years in the future so we can’t really call it Warhammer 3000’. So it ended up being Warhammer 40,000 – though it settled down to 40K fairly quickly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: richstrach on November 19, 2015, 04:13:56 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on November 19, 2015, 09:52:09 AM
Yes, I remember that the full title was a mouthful - I think this was even joked about around the time of the release. But everyone I played with called it "Warhammer 40,000" or "40K". The impression that we had at the time was that Rogue Trader was the game that they had been going to release for ages, but that it had been usurped by Warhammer 40,000, and so the subtitle was just a nod to the abandoned/mutated original project.

Sam here, I can't remember ever calling it 'Rogue Trader' at the time; it was always just 40K. But seeing that cover really takes me back ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 21, 2015, 01:36:08 AM
Now going to interrupt this thread with...a silly question.

I gave in and purchased my first GW product in ages (excluding some Skaven I picked up for a dungeon game) - the Betrayal at Calth box.  I've no interest in the game itself or even 40K (played that for 14 years before dumping it).  I just like the models and think it's a decent value.  I may sell it on, but who knows.

So, for the marine know-it-alls (haven't owned any marines since 1996) how can I find a set of 30+ MkVI beakies (heads only), official or otherwise.  I only see complete MkVI marines and some Raven Guard(?) heads on Forgeworld.  While this will be a slow "paint as I'm bored" process, I'd like to go for MkVI as the bodies don't look too terribly different.

Any aftermarket companies make "look like" heads etc?  I don't know how many marines are included in the box, but I'd like to pick up enough to convert them if possible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 21, 2015, 09:14:27 AM
I don't think anybody sells just Mk6 heads on their own in the quantities you want Elbows... I think you could convert them from Mk4 with some putty though, or gradually buy them from various bits-sellers a few at a time (most Marine kits have one or two Mk6 heads if you are willing to file down a bit of iconography).

Edit:
I think that for the price, these (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Raven-Guard-MKVI-Heads-Upgrade-Set) from FW are your best bet - just shave the raven icons off them. I doubt you will find 30 of them anywhere else for less, or for less hassle.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hauptgefreiter on November 21, 2015, 03:26:46 PM
Well, there are dedicated webshops selling components. You might be lucky to find a greater amount of helmets there.
You might want to check this link (http://megabitzshop.com/index.php?k=156)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 21, 2015, 04:09:04 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 21, 2015, 09:14:27 AM


Edit:
I think that for the price, these (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Raven-Guard-MKVI-Heads-Upgrade-Set) from FW are your best bet - just shave the raven icons off them. I doubt you will find 30 of them anywhere else for less, or for less hassle.  :?

That's exactly what I would do. So much easier. Half hour tops of sanding off, and done.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 21, 2015, 05:46:29 PM
Yeah I was leaning that direction...but now the MkVI vibe has me looking for proper shoulder pads...and I don't do putty work (I suck) but I think people can skip the wrong leg-armour etc.  I do find it odd that FW doesn't sell standard MkVI helmets though, while googling there were dozens of threads/forum posts asking the same question...loads of people wanting Beakies. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 24, 2015, 06:39:58 PM
So GW is having a black Friday sale, take a friend into the store, and if you buy one of the starter kits you both get a £10 voucher. (so if you take a friend who doesn't care, you get a £20 voucher... ;) )

Apparently they're going to be having exclusive one day only offers and deals in store.

They've also put up job listings for game and product designers for their new specialist games department.

Whoever the new CEO is, he seems to basically have gone through everyones internet comments and called all of their bluffs.
"You wanna know about our plans ahead of time? OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS!
You want sales? DONE!
You want it to be cheaper to star the game? FREE VOUCHERS!
You think you can design these games? APPLY NOW!"


Honestly, it seems like a good (and fast!) change.


(oh, and also there's going to be a deathwatch boxed game some time soon...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on November 24, 2015, 06:48:21 PM
Mmmmm, is this the same guy selling plastic assassins at £19 each?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 24, 2015, 08:59:04 PM
Got the BOC box.

I'll try to put together a blog post later, but initial thoughts: boring rules (at a glance), great plastics for the price.  GW is still really good at producing plastic sprue figures.  It's a lot of content for the money.

However, since I haven't owned real GW products for a while, and haven't owned space marines for well over 15 years, my initial excitement was tempered pretty quick.  I won't be cutting into sprues till I put some serious thought into what I'd use them for.   lol

For die-hard GWs or Marine fans it's an excellent box.  Lots of bits (heaps of magazine pouches, grenades, holsters) one of the sprue types includes a "build your combi-weapon" which is pretty nice.  A single bolter w/ option for flamer/melta/bolter?  The dreadnought is a little light on detail and the head is boring.  The terminator arms are a bit sparse.  They went with a ton of lightning claws which are boring (and silly looking in this version).

For kicks I had ordered a couple boxes of Dreamforge Eisenken Valkirs...the heavy Terminator-esque fellas.  Curious to see how the sprues/bits match up.  Might be a fun super-bash project.  I'll give it a week or two before I decide if I'll keep it or sell it off.  I like the Horuse Heresy aspect so this may just get stuffed in a corner for a few months or years.  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 25, 2015, 09:04:08 AM
@ Elbows:

You're a crazy man:

- You buy a box of mk4 marines
- You want to convert them to mk6, but don't want to spend much money or do any sculpting
- You don't really like the dreadnought either
- You also don't like the claws for the terminators (essentially, half their weapon loadout on the sprues)
- You don't know if you want the marines in the first place anymore

No offence, but this has all the makings of a project that will never get done! lol  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on November 25, 2015, 11:21:01 AM
Quote from: nic-e on November 24, 2015, 06:39:58 PM
You think you can design these games? APPLY NOW!"

Much of this smacks as too little, too late. GW had a time when they could address this. But since they haven't bothered to address the glaringly awful writing on their part, letting, say, Mat Ward exist in that company for considerably longer than any of GW's writers who had talent. In the last 10 years they've garnered a reputation for having awful, awful writing. No self respecting writer is going to work for GW. It's career suicide.

More importantly, these are just board games. It's not as if there's any sign that GW have embraced the idea of improvement. If you take these minor, minor "considerations" and put them in the context of a company that has rebranded itself exclusively as a miniatures company, has said only 20% of its fanbase actually bother with its games, has erased WHFB in favour of a barely functioning game that doesn't know what its supposed to be, and has made 40k the biggest load of pay to win bullshit in wargaming history, these small gestures aren't enough to suggest they're listening. At the end of the day, it's a bit of sales stimulus to keep the Shareholders happy, whilst the actual business fails.

I really, really doubt this is a sign of any kind of lasting improvement. It's more of the same of what GW ultimately are: a company that specialises in selling stuff that looks better than it actually is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on November 25, 2015, 02:43:24 PM
Quote from: nic-e on November 24, 2015, 06:39:58 PM
You think you can design these games? APPLY NOW!"

A shame they aren't looking for corporate historians or archivists.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 25, 2015, 03:02:42 PM
Nord: cruel. lol

But it's hard to disagree. I've been having vaguely similar thoughts to Dim Reaper. I've heard from GW fans that the GW studio apparently plays by grabbing whatever minis they have and bashing them together, apparently assumes everyone else plays like that, and anyone who plays different is doing it wrong. I think that's a bit difficult to resolve with the fact that until recently, both core games had strict force organisations and points systems, a lot of players got their kicks out of exploiting that, and - as DR says - there seemed to be a bit of pay-to-win going on. (Unless they do believe their own line about selling minis to collectors, and the rules being unimportant)
If it's the case, AoS and 40K unbound could be interpreted as GW springing it's own personal play style on the gaming public, and assuming everyone will go along with it. Keep playing in the same way, even. But then you could say they tried that before with a couple of side games: Dreadfleet and, even earlier, Inquisitor. One with no balancing structure, intended for purely narrative, almost RPG games, and the other apparently intended for dice rolling for the sake of dice rolling, and smashing minis together. Both with their adherents but not what you would call widely popular.

So if GW already had the notion that these games were unpopular (recalling unsold sets of Dreadfleet and destroying them would be a decent indication that they did) then what was the thinking behind turning their two main, biggest lines into the same kind of games? Given their apparent focus on minis over games, did they assume that the lack of success was all down to the incompatible 54mm and ship minis? (Elbows says the Calth rules look a bit boring at first glance, but I'll bet most gamers aren't buying all those 28-32mm heresy marines for the board game. A bit similar to how a lot of Space Hulk termis ended up.)

Getting back to the game designer opening, have AoS' unpopularity and GW's overall slipping sales really brought home the necessity of well-written and balanced rules, this time? I guess time will tell, when the first games of the Specialist Studio appear. But while LotR and the SGs had their little wrinkles that could be ironed out, by all accounts they included some of the best game rules put out by GW. I'd say you could put LotR and these proposed SG box sets up for sale with unchanged rules (edit: and halfway sane prices, natch) and people would snap them up, and love them.

So what's the extra game designer for? To iron out those wrinkles, to tweak the rules in whatever way the box set format requires (unlikely, as that's how they were sold before), or something more? Something to bring the games more in line with GW's collector-of-jewel-like-wonder-items/roll-dice-and-bash-minis mentality?

I get a bad feeling that hiring a new game designer 'for attitude', to adapt the old rulesets by Jervis Johnson, Rick Priestly and Andy Chambers etc., will turn out as much of a nasty surprise as the time I tried reading the Malus Darkblade novel 'written' by Dan Abnett (top billing), and, oh, there's this Mike Lee co-writer chap too...

That's not too cynical, is it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on November 26, 2015, 10:59:24 PM
Quote from: Vermis on November 25, 2015, 03:02:42 PM
But it's hard to disagree. I've been having vaguely similar thoughts to Dim Reaper. I've heard from GW fans that the GW studio apparently plays by grabbing whatever minis they have and bashing them together, apparently assumes everyone else plays like that, and anyone who plays different is doing it wrong. I think that's a bit difficult to resolve with the fact that until recently, both core games had strict force organisations and points systems, a lot of players got their kicks out of exploiting that, and - as DR says - there seemed to be a bit of pay-to-win going on. (Unless they do believe their own line about selling minis to collectors, and the rules being unimportant)

If that was the case, I think actually a lot of us long suffering GW "fans" would be rather tolerant that at least, they have a consistent attitude that sets their game up as something. This kind of consistency has done wonders for the likes of PP, who unapologetically label their games as games for Nasty Power Gamers. The trouble with GW is, they'll say whatever they feel they need to say to get through the day, and at the same time use ruthless and blatant endeavours that aren't about playing games in so much as they are about manipulating the shit out of gamers to encourage sales stimulus.

40k for instance, and Age of Sigmar, have formations. These things are the bane of my existence, and they're a primary contributor in my determination to quit. They basically give massive (and often game-breaking) bonuses to players who buy and use specific units. It often requires (I'm sure you'll all find this surprising) purchasing multiples of recent releases, or previously underused models from the existing range. It's a novel way to make sales, but they've basically become the totality of playing. I used to count on some variety when playing the game, but these days it's getting to the point where you're seeing the same stuff over, and over, and over.

I do have a soft spot for Age of Sigmar, but it does set off my cynic alarm. The rules are so obviously designed and set up to in the future facilitate effortless pay-to-win ante-upping shenanigans. As most of the rules and features of the ruleset are in the rules for the unit you buy (the core has very, very little to offset the massive and easy to arrange inequalities within the game), meaning that it doesn't take very much effort to make newer releases simply better than everything that went before it, and what's more, there's not enough core rules to sanitise or standardise how rules are used to maintain a stable playing field. Anything from the way a shield works, to a kind of in-game effect that would previously be a Universal Special Rule that was contained within the core, has no presence in the main rules, and there is nothing stopping them from making what is effectively the same effect better for some things and not others.

I just don't remotely buy this whole "the game doesn't matter" thing, because if it didn't, so much time and effort wouldn't be put in to facilitating what will sell and when. The game doesn't matter in terms of being a game, that is evident. But in terms of sales, it's still everything. This ante-upping has made the games so utterly un-fun for me, that I barely even bother. The hobby aspect gives me a fair bit of enjoyment, as their kits are rather good, but in terms of games, these people are past it.

It's not surprising they call themselves a miniatures company. They suck at everything else. This new revelation of adding new staff does not really fill me with confidence. I assume, much as I think Vermis does, that they will go for a writer who's primary selling point in the interviews was their "enthusiasm for the company" over their abilities.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 27, 2015, 01:23:51 AM
Quote
(I'm sure you'll all find this surprising)

I know you're being sarcastic; but after finding out that even the new terrain pieces have their own special rules, and are necessary for some of the new scenarios, it doesn't surprise me at all. lol

Agreed with the rest of your post. That's the flipside of the 'naive, well-meaning GW' bit, and another example of the mixed messages sent out by GW. (Or different departments within GW, or even GW fans trying to rationalise what GW are doing) I would say that underlies all GW's apparent problems, from subjective pricing to rules imbalance to game structure. It's all trying to pull in different directions at once.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cherno on November 27, 2015, 05:55:17 AM
All this talk about GW's business practices since, well, GW first started :D, makes me wish we could experience a parallel dimension where GW actually had no share holders and just did what it's fans liked and suggested... I wonder if it would still be around today, as the colossus that it still is. Every week, someone proclaims the nearby end of GW because of their supposedly bad business practices.
It seems to me that sometimes, people forget that a company's primary goal and reason of existing is to be profitable and make money, which doesn't necessarily mean pleasing people who think they are the customer's base. I heard before that GW relies more on young gamers who got suckered into the "GW hobby" than the old-time gamers who already have a lot of GW stuff and only buy the occasional blister or rulebook.
What if most people don't like how GW runs it's business, but they are still doing the right thing from a business perspective (that includes the long-term)? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on November 27, 2015, 07:52:34 AM
Quote from: Cherno on November 27, 2015, 05:55:17 AM
I heard before that GW relies more on young gamers who got suckered into the "GW hobby" than the old-time gamers who already have a lot of GW stuff and only buy the occasional blister or rulebook.
You're right, he target audience for the last 20 years has been 12 to 15 year olds; they tend to drop the hobby after they hit school leaving age, and a small percentage come back around the 19/20 age, along with a tiny but very keen minority who never left. That was the line coming from the sales director, and to be fair, it was born out by the customer base we were getting in the stores.

Quote from: Cherno on November 27, 2015, 05:55:17 AM
What if most people don't like how GW runs it's business, but they are still doing the right thing from a business perspective (that includes the long-term)? :)
Thing is, servicing the 12 to 15 year old market requires friendly, open stores with lots of painting/gaming support, and rules teaching, stuff like that. There used to be lots of that going on.
But now GW are trying to save money, they've cut the store staffing levels to the bone, and there just isn't the time to provide the support the kids need.
But rather than admit that cutting the store support was a mistake, and reclaiming the 12-15 group that took them to where they are, they now insist that their target customers are more mature 'collectors', prepared to pay vast sums for a single fancy model. So, no, I don't think they are doing the right thing from a business perspective, long-term.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 27, 2015, 08:18:41 AM
Quote from: Cherno on November 27, 2015, 05:55:17 AM
What if most people don't like how GW runs it's business, but they are still doing the right thing from a business perspective (that includes the long-term)? :)
I don't know a lot about business, but generating a steady flow of (disgruntled) ex-customers doesn't seem to be in any manual...  ;)
Most companies these days are becoming more and more service-oriented for sales generation and retention, whereas GW seems to be growing more disservice-oriented.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 27, 2015, 09:52:17 AM
Quote from: Cherno on November 27, 2015, 05:55:17 AM
All this talk about GW's business practices since, well, GW first started :D, makes me wish we could experience a parallel dimension where GW actually had no share holders and just did what it's fans liked and suggested... I wonder if it would still be around today, as the colossus that it still is. Every week, someone proclaims the nearby end of GW because of their supposedly bad business practices.
It seems to me that sometimes, people forget that a company's primary goal and reason of existing is to be profitable and make money, which doesn't necessarily mean pleasing people who think they are the customer's base. I heard before that GW relies more on young gamers who got suckered into the "GW hobby" than the old-time gamers who already have a lot of GW stuff and only buy the occasional blister or rulebook.
What if most people don't like how GW runs it's business, but they are still doing the right thing from a business perspective (that includes the long-term)? :)

I always hear this argument come up sooner or later in any critical discussion about GW, and I never really understand the point of it. Of course GW gets to do whatever it feels is best for making money - and to GW's merit, it's not as if it's exploiting impoverished cocoa farmers in the Ivory Coast or poisoning pineapple farmers in Costa Rica like some other companies whose products we buy in our daily lives away from the hobby. None of which alters the fact that it's not our job to ensure the financial well-being of GW's shareholders.

If we feel that a company is treating its customers (or potential customers, or target demographic) in a cynical manner, or if we don't like the deal that a company is offering us, we get to be vocally critical of it - for our own sake, not for the company's sake. They can do what they like, we can do what we like.

There's no such thing as being unfair to GW when we're talking about whether we would, or wouldn't, invest ourselves in what they're selling.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 27, 2015, 10:06:46 AM
GW's business practices always confuse me, all I see is a constant stream of missed opportunities:

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 13, 2015, 08:47:56 AM
The funny thing is, GW are in a strange and enviable market position that in any other market sector would have seen them absolutely wipe the floor with most of their competition; and yet, they cannot seem to increase their profitability due to their inability to listen to or understand their customers' concerns, and gradually lose market share year on year. It's really baffling that they can't see that, but we've discussed it before and so I'll leave that comment there.

I have also never understood in these discussions why many people seem think that only GW or their customers can benefit from a change in GW policy, and not realise that both can. Like I said: in any other market sector...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on November 27, 2015, 10:19:16 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 27, 2015, 10:06:46 AM
I have also never understood in these discussions why many people seem think that only GW or their customers can benefit from a change in GW policy, and not realise that both can. Like I said: in any other market sector...  ::)

I think it's because GW suffers the same blind spot in that regard, and we just subconsciously copy that attitude?  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on November 27, 2015, 02:23:42 PM
Quote from: Lovejoy on November 27, 2015, 07:52:34 AM
they now insist that their target customers are more mature 'collectors'

Not being really a GW fan, but having bought into AoS, I would agree with that statement.

When you look at the AoS miniatures, they are 40mm not 28mm as sooo many folks fail to comprehend. They are chock full of detail. For example, I just finished 3 Retributors. The "backpacks" they have measure from the uppermost spike to the lowest point on the scrolls hanging from them, more or less, 28mm. I painted them separately and when they were finished glued them onto the miniatures. Just these 3 backpacks took me over 8 hours to paint.

After painting my 3 Retributors I came to the decision that there was absolutely no way someone the age of 12 to 15 could paint these minis.

Now in business you have basically two predominate models that optimize profit: low price, high volume or high price, low volume. So, for example, you have someone like CoolMiniOrNot producing Zombicide, which is a low price, high volume business model. Their minis are detailed but made of crappy plastic. OTOH, you have folks like Infinity who go for high price, low volume with detailed minis made of resin.

When you look at the new stuff coming out of GW, which is made in very high detail and hard impact plastic, they have only one business model which is viable: high price, low volume.

You may not like the strategy, but it is a proven business strategy which reaps profit.

Now in case folks haven't been following current events, young folks really don't have much buying power and the earnings of the middle class is collapsing. When faced with this situation, GW could have tried to stay somewhere in the middle of the two major profit strategies as they have for the last 30 years. But that road, given today's market realities is the road to extinction. The company obviously had to change direction, that is that they had to choose a market strategy that optimizes profit. Can you imagine GW shifting to a low price, high volume market model? No, I can't either and thus we have the direction that GW has now taken.

Like I said before, you may not like it, but it is a proven business model for maximizing profit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Redmao on November 27, 2015, 02:55:08 PM
I don't get why people say that GW is aiming for the 12 - 15 years old.
While I don't regularly visit gaming stores, I never saw any kids hanging there.
Most of the customers or gamers were people ranging from their mid 20's to their 40's.

The only kid I saw was a little boy who was playing army men with some Dust Tactics models on a display table while his dad was browsing around.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 27, 2015, 03:10:44 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 27, 2015, 02:23:42 PM
After painting my 3 Retributors I came to the decision that there was absolutely no way someone the age of 12 to 15 could paint these minis.

I'm Rhoderic's cynicism, but I don't believe the business strategists at GW have the slightest care for whether 12-15 year olds can paint the miniatures. What matters is that they will purchase the miniatures, believing they can paint them.

Oh, to think of all the ludicrous hardsell bullshit I was roped into investing myself in, aged 12-15.

Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 27, 2015, 02:23:42 PM
When you look at the new stuff coming out of GW, which is made in very high detail and hard impact plastic, they have only one business model which is viable: high price, low volume.

Not buying it. Just... not buying it. Sorry.

Quote from: Redmao on November 27, 2015, 02:55:08 PM
I don't get why people say that GW is aiming for the 12 - 15 years old.
While I don't regularly visit gaming stores, I never saw any kids hanging there.
Most of the customers or gamers were people ranging from their mid 20's to their 40's.

The only kid I saw was a little boy who was playing army men with some Dust Tactics models on a display table while his dad was browsing around.

That's completely the opposite of my experience with official GW stores (Stockholm, Edinburgh and Dublin). Third-party gaming stores that don't exclusively sell GW products have an older clientele, for sure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on November 27, 2015, 03:20:22 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on November 27, 2015, 03:10:44 PM
Not buying it. Just... not buying it. Sorry.

Do you have an education in business?

Are you currently running your own business?

Just wondering...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on November 27, 2015, 03:39:47 PM
To distil a business model down to 'high price, low volume' doesn't work. Furthermore, calling out someone who says they don't buy that statement and question their ability to judge based on business education is the wrong way to go about it.

Businesses all over, not just commercial retail (let alone wargaming), are having to rethink traditional 'business models' as the markets are moving and diversifying faster than it takes to sit an MBA these days. There are a multitude of options open to GW. They are pursuing these through IP farming to the likes of FFG and through computer games.

Will we all agree on things? No. Never. But then that's the point of having a forum for discussion. It get's pretty boring if you are reading through a topic of hundreds of pages with everyone singing from teh same hymn sheet.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 27, 2015, 03:51:40 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 27, 2015, 03:20:22 PM
Do you have an education in business?

Are you currently running your own business?

Just wondering...

I have university education in business, yes.

More to the point, though, I have experience in being a GW fanboi in my youth, and socialising with others of my kind. Boy, did they have me good. I was the sort of blind follower that genuinely tried to convince other people to only buy GW products and eschew all those "shabby" substitute miniatures from all those "dishonourable" third-party manufacturers, just like GW had brainwashed me to. I didn't get into the hobby until shortly before turning 16 (that coincided with GW making a big push into the Nordic countries, before which they didn't have as much presence or visibility here) but I have no doubt that as a 12-15 year old I would have made sure to acquire the AoS box at any cost whatsoever to my parents, had it existed and been on my radar back then. It's that kind of product. 12-15 year old boys desire it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on November 27, 2015, 04:39:10 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on November 27, 2015, 03:51:40 PM
I have university education in business, yes.

More to the point, though, I have experience in being a GW fanboi in my youth, and socialising with others of my kind. Boy, did they have me good. I was the sort of blind follower that genuinely tried to convince other people to only buy GW products and eschew all those "shabby" substitute miniatures from all those "dishonourable" third-party manufacturers, just like GW had brainwashed me to. I didn't get into the hobby until shortly before turning 16 (that coincided with GW making a big push into the Nordic countries, before which they didn't have as much presence or visibility here) but I have no doubt that as a 12-15 year old I would have made sure to acquire the AoS box at any cost whatsoever to my parents, had it existed and been on my radar back then. It's that kind of product. 12-15 year old boys desire it.

Cool, then you should realize those days are gone.

The closest GW store to me is in Valencia.

https://www.facebook.com/GWValencia/timeline?ref=page_internal

Check out their photo page. These folks know how to seriously paint miniatures.

And given your business education then you should know about business strategies and exactly what GW is doing... not basing your opinion on childhood experience.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 27, 2015, 05:26:06 PM
Yeah... but no. I don't really see why it is I should realise those days are gone. AoS strikes me as being like a worst-case-scenario extrapolation of the direction GW was headed 15 years ago. More over-the-top splendiferousness, more turgid doomsday romanticism, more pay-to-win shenanigans, more "proprietary" product tie-ins (as with the terrain pieces that come with their own special rules). Less depth, less composure, less grace. Children and young teenagers gobble that stuff up.

But I dunno... maybe the hobby culture is different in continental Europe, especially southern Europe. All those boutique games coming out of Spain, France and to a lesser extent Germany seem to be coming out of a miniature gaming culture that isn't like the one I'm accustomed to (but to be clear, I'm generally very positive to the boutique games and the culture they come from). A culture where, possibly, it's more common for adults to play and collect contemporary (non-"Oldhammer") GW games and give them the same "ultra-polished" treatment they give Infinity and all the rest of those games. That's not my experience of the Swedish scene, and I suspect the scene in the Anglosphere is more like the Swedish scene than the southern European one, though I can't claim that for sure. I don't know whether you're native to Southern Europe or not, so I can't speak to what "hobby culture" you come from, but the GW Valencia Facebook page does give me the impression of a culture where GW is held in higher regard among adults than it is here or in the Anglosphere. If so, that's neither better nor worse. Just different.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 27, 2015, 06:37:48 PM
Quote from: Cherno on November 27, 2015, 05:55:17 AM
All this talk about GW's business practices since, well, GW first started :D, makes me wish we could experience a parallel dimension where GW actually had no share holders and just did what it's fans liked and suggested... I wonder if it would still be around today, as the colossus that it still is. Every week, someone proclaims the nearby end of GW because of their supposedly bad business practices.
It seems to me that sometimes, people forget that a company's primary goal and reason of existing is to be profitable and make money, which doesn't necessarily mean pleasing people who think they are the customer's base. I heard before that GW relies more on young gamers who got suckered into the "GW hobby" than the old-time gamers who already have a lot of GW stuff and only buy the occasional blister or rulebook.
What if most people don't like how GW runs it's business, but they are still doing the right thing from a business perspective (that includes the long-term)? :)

And people have been saying that GW is, like, a business you guys, and they're doing the right thing, for almost as long.

But things are starting to happen. GW's sales have been slipping for years - that's a concrete fact. Not ex-GW-fanboys or old grognards having a moan - verifiable fact from the financial reports. No, they're not going to curl up and die just yet, but unless they can arrest the trend it's not going to go well for them.

What's less concrete is why it's happening. I don't know if GW has to inform it's investors about that*, but in any case the info is not forthcoming because Tom Kirby has publically and blatantly bragged that they do no market research. (And single-handedly brought the word 'otiose' roaring into the consciousness of the gaming market)
The most of what's left to us armchair CEOs is anecdotal data from the interwebz and even the 'meta' of their games. From watching fanboy-central forums like Warseer and Dakka for years, my own take is that people still generally like the background and models, but quit because of the prices and the unbalancing rules churn. They (arguably we) are the customer base, but they didn't cut themselves off, not without a push.
And yet GW kept upping the prices, and churning the rules, and increasing the purchase requirements for their games, as the sales kept dropping. And then shops started closing, or turning into one-man stores, to save costs. And then the spiels from the higher levels about selling models to 'collectors' rather than 'gamers'; and how GW's customers will buy anything that GW sells (that's the point of the hobby, after all); and blaming poor performance on everything from an LotR bubble that popped years before, to the £4 million for a new webshop paid to Kirby's wife, to the value of the pound, to the American legal system (the swine...) started appearing. And then they not only messed up the balance but ripped out the structure of their games. Especially when WFB apparently started selling so poorly - during random-rules giant-armies £3.50-witch-elves 8th ed - that they burnt it down and set up AoS in it's place.

And yet this game is by all accounts failing on it's arse. The apparent 12-15 demographic, which should be attracted to a game full of enormous shiny/spiky he-men and based around grabbing whatever earth-shakingly powerful set of special rules you like, isn't buying it. The alternative demographic of older 'collectors' isn't buying it. GW took the last popular elements - the background, the minis that represented that background, and the block manoeuvre game - and nuked them. Suddenly an awful lot of 'collectors' aren't that interested in the shiny new models to collect. Weird that, huh?

Jings Cherno. I shouldn't even have to type all this out. Most of it isn't new news - it's old stuff that's been chewed over many times before. And there's more I could post too. With all of that, with all the disregard, misunderstanding, alienation and contempt of customers and what so many of them actually want, and the resulting slide down the sales slope... do you really think it's some subtle, ingenious and long-term master plan that us plebs can't comprehend?

As opposed to a set of basic business blunders that would make even a bunch of The Apprentice candidates cringe?

*I only have a B or a C in AS Business Studies, Ray, and can't remember most of it. Does it still count? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 27, 2015, 09:28:38 PM
Does anyone actually have sale figures for Age of Sigmar stuff?

I've heard some folks say it was selling well, others say it's doing terribly, but haven't seen anything convincing cited.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on November 27, 2015, 10:29:38 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 27, 2015, 09:28:38 PM
Does anyone actually have sale figures for Age of Sigmar stuff?

I've heard some folks say it was selling well, others say it's doing terribly, but haven't seen anything convincing cited.

I've been led to believe it flopped badly and is the reason GW's been coughing out plastic Horus Heresy and the recent promises of Specialist Games coming back in order to fix their financial report for the year's end.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 27, 2015, 11:47:04 PM
I've heard too it was an immense disaster. What the hell were they thinking? Warhammer was at least a game, of armies, and has immense history. Age of Sigmar looks like Tonka toys for kids who are too uncoordinated to hold 28mm models. Just. Awful.

Even old Warhammer armies have lost a lot of appeal I think as one now needs to find like minded souls to play 8th or earlier games.

Who knows though? For me, Age of Sigmar even killed every last bit of nostalgia I had. That's really saying something. Used to be I would at least buy the rules, or wander in to check out the latest Warhammer edition. Not any more ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 28, 2015, 08:29:32 AM
Found this post on belloflostsouls which seems to hint that it is a flop, though they too are finding real data hard to come by. http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/09/rage-of-sigmar-what-the-heck-is-going-on.html

Most instructive is the linked Warseer thread where pretty much every respondent says no one is playing it. Granted, there could be a reporting bias in that, but it's the best we've got in the absence of genuine hard data.

I also saw a few points mentioned elsewhere:

- Fantasy armies are going for dirt cheap on ebay (easy enough to verify)
- Google searches for "Age of Sigmar" are way down (also easy to verify)
- The Google play store reports only 10k downloads for the app

But who knows.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 28, 2015, 09:16:02 AM
Fantasy armies dirt cheap you say... Time for some browsing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 28, 2015, 09:59:41 AM
There are computer games set in the Old World that are proving very popular, and now GW cannot cash in on the overspill of people who think "Oh, I want to play the tabletop version again." Idiocy. I loved the Old World so much growing up, and still did very much (until the giant cartoony World of Warcraft-ish aesthetic got too much) before they killed it off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 28, 2015, 10:12:28 AM
I bought the AOS set for my boy for  Christmas as he was showing an interest,tbh I think they would make better space marines ,lol
I think warhammer miniatures have gone way over the top,maybe it's nostalgia but I prefer the older rogue trader 40k orks and the earlier warhammer stuff
The island of blood skaven don't look bad in online pics ive never held any in my hand to verify that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 28, 2015, 11:17:56 AM
But Oldhammer is going from strength to strength!

So that's good news.

It's also good if you want to buy up old miniatures because the various trading sites (not necessarily eBay) are shifting a lot of old miniatures for very affordable prices. I spend a lot of time idly browsing on the Oldhammer Trading page on FB (and occasionally picking up the odd pretty thing) and the average price is around £3-ish per model. No-one's on there to make a killing and there's a lot of helpful people (some of them the GW 'originals') who can help you source stuff that you're having trouble finding.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 28, 2015, 11:54:52 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 28, 2015, 08:29:32 AM
Found this post on belloflostsouls which seems to hint that it is a flop, though they too are finding real data hard to come by. http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/09/rage-of-sigmar-what-the-heck-is-going-on.html

Most instructive is the linked Warseer thread where pretty much every respondent says no one is playing it. Granted, there could be a reporting bias in that, but it's the best we've got in the absence of genuine hard data.

There's also this poll on Dakka. Three quarters of nearly 600 people say it's dropping off. As we're saying, not exactly concrete, or scientific, but telling.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/666438.page
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 28, 2015, 12:01:25 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 28, 2015, 11:17:56 AM
But Oldhammer is going from strength to strength!

So that's good news.

It's also good if you want to buy up old miniatures because the various trading sites (not necessarily eBay) are shifting a lot of old miniatures for very affordable prices. I spend a lot of time idly browsing on the Oldhammer Trading page on FB (and occasionally picking up the odd pretty thing) and the average price is around £3-ish per model. No-one's on there to make a killing and there's a lot of helpful people (some of them the GW 'originals') who can help you source stuff that you're having trouble finding.

Yes sir, in the last year or 2 it's grown alot to where the word ''Oldhammer'' is becoming common useage of various internet forums plus there's at last count 3 articles written about it in Wargaming Mags.

It's sure come along way since it was just a handful of Blogs and the original B.L.O.O.D Forum (Oldhammer Forum Mk1 if you will).

As for the Oldhammer Trade page on FB, I was one of 4 which set that up and admined the page (Along with the main FB Oldhammer group and a number of spin off groups). The point was to have a place away from ebay and build up a common price guide.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 28, 2015, 12:04:59 PM
Quote from: Chico on November 28, 2015, 12:01:25 PM
plus there's at last count 3 articles written about it in Wargaming Mags.

Out of curiosity, which magazines? I might want to check them out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 28, 2015, 12:25:18 PM
Oh, and...

Quote from: FramFramson on November 27, 2015, 09:28:38 PM
Does anyone actually have sale figures for Age of Sigmar stuff?

Even the financial reports don't go into that level of detail. I'll guess the next one might see a slight upward spike in GW's sales, which might be attributed to AoS starter sets among other things, but after that... *shrug*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 28, 2015, 12:48:48 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on November 28, 2015, 12:04:59 PM
Out of curiosity, which magazines? I might want to check them out.

Off the top of my head (and without hunting  the threads out on the Oldhammer forum/FB Groups) it's 2 in Miniature Wargames & 1 in Wargames Soldiers and Strategy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on November 28, 2015, 01:41:50 PM
Quote from: Vermis on November 28, 2015, 11:54:52 AM
There's also this poll on Dakka. Three quarters of nearly 600 people say it's dropping off. As we're saying, not exactly concrete, or scientific, but telling.

Actually that is probably good news for folks who like AoS. Little by little the Oldhammer folks are losing interest and drifting away.

One of the biggest obstacles IMHO to AoS, in the short term, is all the Oldhammer folks who want AoS to somehow be Oldhammer with new rules. The problem is Oldhammer is not AoS. They are two separate and distinct games with their own fluff. They do not have any points in common.

Because they are two separate and distinct games, GW must build a new player base for the new game and this will take a lot of time. Up to this point and probably well into the foreseeable short term, folks who like AoS have been continually harassed with trolling and griefing from GW haters and Oldhammer diehards on just about every forum there is, including here.

As an example... the folks at Beasts of War were initially quite excited about AoS and planned on doing an extensive series of articles in support of the game. They received so much venom in the comments section that the project was shelved.

That doesn't mean the game has failed. What it does mean is that folks who like AoS have just "gone underground." In my case, I have a Stormcast Eternals thread that I was planning to update as I finished painting my units. I decided to can this project. Doesn't mean I'm not still painting my army or buying more stuff, does mean I'm not going to post anymore photos of my minis.

Just fed up with all the griefing and trolling...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 28, 2015, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 28, 2015, 01:41:50 PM
Actually that is probably good news for folks who like AoS. Little by little the Oldhammer folks are losing interest and drifting away.

One of the biggest obstacles IMHO to AoS, in the short term, is all the Oldhammer folks who want AoS to somehow be Oldhammer with new rules. The problem is Oldhammer is not AoS. They are two separate and distinct games with their own fluff. They do not have any points in common.

B

I think you are mistaking Oldhammer and a Warhammer 8th player. Oldhammer is a fluid term but for the most part it's about playing older game systems from ones youth (3rd Edition is most common of the WhFB, RT for 40k ect) in the late 1980's/early 1990 of nostalgia rather then rules,

Speaking of rules, it's not just rescricted to '''Hammer'' games either with a fair few non-GW games being favoured by the Oldhammer scene.

For the most part AoS has no impact on Oldhammer (Other then people thinking Oldhammer is a catch all term for warhammer players) as are world has been dead for 15-20 years and the blowing up of the current WhFB doesn't stop or effect us using are armies which have long been cut out the fluff and rules (Zoats, Fimir, Slann, Fishmen, Hybrids ect)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 28, 2015, 02:20:55 PM
Put a request to join the Oldhammer trade fb page,be nice to see some realistic priced lead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 28, 2015, 03:02:17 PM
At one time my collection was all the books from 1st Ed. Warhammer and 40k - yes, all of them - 10000pts of Orcs and Goblins, 4000pts of modern Orks and a RT/2nd Ed. 40k army that was epic in size. I had a few other armies too, modern Skaven which I immensely liked with the Island of Blood boxed plastics. Probably 75% of what I owned was metal though.

All that is gone. I wouldn't even want to think about starting again or collecting all over.
For me, GW is over.

AoS is a big pile of poo, clearly, from the vast amount of web response (never a proper survey!) but my god if the AoS people have to meet up in secret because it's so bad, surely that's bad, right?

Not posting threads because of Internet hate? Any nicely painted and interesting project is worth posting. Or, as Frostgrave proves, post everything as long as it says "Frostgrave". But seriously, GW are probably sitting back and wondering just how bad this decision was and why they did it. Was it a joke gone bad? Surely it can't be the lack of writers - they put out a whopping 4 pages of rules. Once all the real GW talent left, it was over anyway.

They should just sell the company to Hasbro and move on. Pretty soon we will have Age of Sigmar Saturday morning cartoons and blistered preprinted action figure sets. Like He-Man in the 80s.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 28, 2015, 04:05:30 PM
There is a world of difference between being critical - even extremely critical - of AoS or GW, and harassing people who play/collect AoS or other GW games. I can't speak for other communities, but I have seen no harassment of AoS players on LAF, least of all in the Stormcast Eternals thread which I have just read through. Plenty of criticism for AoS in this thread right here, sure, but again, that's just not the same thing in the least.

Anyway, it's not as if we detractors are some monolithic wall of dumb hate. Most or all of us have a more complex, multifaceted view than that, and if we are to somehow be taken as a "collective" (which I don't think we should), then that view becomes even more complex and multifaceted because we're not all in agreement over everything. The complexity and multifacetedness of our opinions is the engine that's powering the discussion in this thread. It's not willful griefing and trolling.

For instance, I'm less certain than some others in this thread that AoS is a commercial disaster for GW, mainly because I'm not informed on the subject and simply don't care enough to see any point in investigating it. I do have an extremely cynical view of GW, because GW treats its customers in an extremely cynical way, but that doesn't equate to believing the company is flopping. Maybe it is flopping, but I just don't know or care.

As another example, while I generally feel that AoS is rather garish and turgid, that wouldn't stop me scavenging a few of the more basic-looking Sigmarines for non-AoS projects if the mood strikes me and I can find them cheap enough. I don't hate them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on November 28, 2015, 04:37:27 PM
Well I'm at least impressed that it took this long before the "Can't enjoy because hate" argument came crawling out. Now all we need to do is add the "entitlement" argument next to the "they're a business" argument and we almost have the full set.

I do try my best, but I find it hard to have meaningful discussions with anyone who doesn't agree that the anger within (and out of) the fanbase isn't massively justified. So hopefully we all agree on that, because for me, the evidence is plain. To me, The White Knights have grown silent more because of lacking decent arguments than of being sick of "hate". Haters gonna hate and all that (I'm so home with the downies) but the "haters" are right. GW's writing is appalling. The recent "Models Company" shift has obviously given hope to certain quarters, but it's meaningless. Without a point, they're paperweights. Better looking and more affordable paperweights are available. It's not difficult to get Rackham Sculpts for instance, or the countless waves of new companies using sculpting talent, and CAD, you know that thing GW thinks is a USP? Yeah, that.

I have fun playing Age of Sigmar, which is an experience I never had with WHFB. Sorry to say this to the fans, but I'm not sorry it's gone. I never really saw the point of regimental at 28mm, and as regimental rulesets go (and I'm including historical with this) Warhammer is vastly overrated. WHFB also is far too character driven, and well, 8th Edition was just awful. I've never really enjoyed the game. I rather like Age of Sigmar because it's freer. If I'd have taken a Skeletal Horde, or Goblin/Gnoblar alliance in WHFB, I'd have been laughed from the gaming board. In AoS, they stand as much a chance as any with the right proportions.

I don't like that it's entirely player responsibility to balance, and is going to become increasingly pay to win. I also don't like the possibility that the whole Free Rules thing will fall on the wayside. I am long past the point of thinking that any of GW's writing, or Black Library for that matter, is worth money.

I don't know whether AoS has been a huge success, but certainly, the WHFB players have gone apeshit over it. Whilst I think AoS is a superior game for the scale, I do think they are right to be angry. GW have done a massive reset to essentially satisfy their lawyers, and persist with corporate greed over common sense. They rather deserve to fail. And I say that being one of the few "haters" who likes Age of Sigmar, so you can just imagine what others think.

Whilst I don't subscribe to the imminent GW Doom theory, I do think GW could be in serious trouble over the next few years if they don't do something to address their appalling customer relations. Because that can and will destroy them. If anybody wonders whether that can happen, just pop the words "Confrontation: Age of Ragnarok" into google, and see what you get...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 28, 2015, 05:07:52 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on November 28, 2015, 04:05:30 PM
There is a world of difference between being critical - even extremely critical - of AoS or GW, and harassing people who play/collect AoS or other GW games. I can't speak for other communities, but I have seen no harassment of AoS players on LAF, least of all in the Stormcast Eternals thread which I have just read through. Plenty of criticism for AoS in this thread right here, sure, but again, that's just not the same thing in the least.

That's because this is the place to disparage all things GW! Back in the "old days" there were a million GW threads, all hate based (well, maybe one was good), and the community (or moderators, who we all love!) decided to put it all in one big septic tank, the LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread.

All hatred belongs here. Some good, sure, but this is the place to vent about GW and it's awful ways, the end of the Warhammer World, etc. etc. etc.

Painting and modelling threads that are good - I mean this - are good no matter the subject. That's why they won't drift past "I like your blue guys, what colour, etc" into "Death to GW!" - the hate is captured here.

It was a bright cold day in December, and the clocks were striking thirteen.

(http://files-us.myalbum.io/photo/360/QX/Qn/QXQndbMSqQBB.jpg)

He loved Games Workshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 28, 2015, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on November 28, 2015, 04:37:27 PM
I never really saw the point of regimental at 28mm, and as regimental rulesets go (and I'm including historical with this) Warhammer is vastly overrated.

There was a time when I would have disagreed with that, but these days I agree. Regimental looks and plays far better in the smaller scales, whereas 28mm looks and plays best at a skirmish level. WHFB also doesn't stand up well to other regimental rulesets these days (including some of Rick Priestley's own later ones), and its charm lies mainly in using the older editions to re-live the quaint old times when wonky rulesets didn't matter because you were being a pioneer playing fantasy miniature wargames in the first place (not that there weren't fantasy rulesets before WHFB, of course). My largely negative opinion of AoS is not to do with the fact that it did away with WHFB or the 28mm regimental premise - both being things I abandoned long before GW did.

Of course, others may disagree with at least some of what I've just said, and point out that 28mm regimental fantasy wargaming is still getting a lot of love (KoW, etc). Which just goes to what I've been saying about complex, multifaceted views.

Quote from: grant on November 28, 2015, 05:07:52 PM
That's because this is the place to disparage all things GW! Back in the "old days" there were a million GW threads, all hate based (well, maybe one was good), and the community (or moderators, who we all love!) decided to put it all in one big septic tank, the LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread.

All hatred belongs here. Some good, sure, but this is the place to vent about GW and it's awful ways, the end of the Warhammer World, etc. etc. etc.

Painting and modelling threads that are good - I mean this - are good no matter the subject. That's why they won't drift past "I like your blue guys, what colour, etc" into "Death to GW!" - the hate is captured here.

No disagreement from me :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on November 28, 2015, 06:01:29 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 28, 2015, 01:41:50 PM
That doesn't mean the game has failed. What it does mean is that folks who like AoS have just "gone underground." In my case, I have a Stormcast Eternals thread that I was planning to update as I finished painting my units. I decided to can this project. Doesn't mean I'm not still painting my army or buying more stuff, does mean I'm not going to post anymore photos of my minis.

Just fed up with all the griefing and trolling...

I have zero interest in most new GW figures or any of their rulesets, but it's a shame to hear that Ray, I was really enjoying your paintjobs in that thread.  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on November 28, 2015, 07:53:30 PM
GW release a £100 model to no reaction - is this how far it has gone now that nobody finds it shocking?!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 28, 2015, 08:24:17 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on November 28, 2015, 07:53:30 PM
GW release a £100 model to no reaction - is this how far it has gone now that nobody finds it shocking?!

It should do but I guess it was only a matter of time.
The best bit is the paint set that they suggest you get for it......

Archaon Everchosen Paint Bundle
An awesome set of paints for a truly awesome model - this collection of fifty paints will help you to bring out the incredible detail on Archaon Everchosen! He’s an absolutely massive piece of kit.

Only £130....!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on November 28, 2015, 08:38:46 PM
I wonder how many people buy the thing plus the paints and can actually get it looking anything like as good as GW's? Surely that is the only way you can get anything remotely like value for money. All £100 gets you is some grey plastic. It would be interesting to know if GW really know what the target market is because the evidence suggests that little Timmy is being priced out, leaving what must surely be a dwindling number of hardcore fan boys or 'collectors'/painters who are the ones who can do it justice, as described in my first sentence. I personally think the model is attractive by their recent standards but there is no way in hell that I would consider such a purchase if I became active in the hobby.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on November 28, 2015, 09:13:18 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on November 28, 2015, 04:37:27 PM
Well I'm at least impressed that it took this long before the "Can't enjoy because hate" argument came crawling out.

Hope that wasn't aimed at me.

I'm rather enjoying myself to be quite honest. But it is a real pain in my arse to make decent photos of my minis and post them, to be quite honest, and though I enjoy sharing them with folks, that is not the reason I paint them. Fending off  griefing comments such as "Their too expensive" and "Their too OTT" just isn't worth the bother.

Now back to planning my next purchase...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 28, 2015, 09:19:00 PM
For my part, any emnity towards Age of Sigmar is more out of bitterness of what it replaced disappearing, as well as the aesthetic not being my cup of tea and being towards the more super-high fantasy that I'm not a fan of. It's not the only game or fantasy setting to switch me off for that latter reason, that's for sure. I try to keep my moaning about it to this thread, when it's relevant rather than partisan shots every post! I certainly think no less of those who really do like AoS; I envy them in fact. Please do not be put off posting your work on here, Ray.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 28, 2015, 10:53:50 PM
@ Ray:

I think you should keep posting pics, as I always like seeing nicely painted models. I'm sure that everyone else on LAF does too, whether AoS is their thing or not.

I'm pretty sure I've not seen anything rude about your models in your thread either, although I think having the thread title read "Caution: OTT Minis" or whatever is essentially just baiting and could probably be swapped to something less confrontational and more positive instead.

With regards to taking photos, why not explain what you're having trouble with and ask for some tips to help? If anybody can help you with some unexpectedly awesome yet simple suggestions, the LAFers can!


@ Mason:

I don't really get the paint set combo either.  :? Good painters are good painters regardless of how many colours they have. I also suspect that good painters have all the stuff they need already (because presumably they do enough painting to get/be that good in the first place...!), making it double-pointless.


@ thenamelessdead:

The model is techincally fine (I guess, looking at the pics). I do feel the previous metal Archaon model had much more focus on the anti-hero himself rather than the mount though; and I think I prefer that for a character.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 29, 2015, 12:14:12 AM
Quote from: Rhoderic on November 28, 2015, 04:05:30 PM
There is a world of difference between being critical - even extremely critical - of AoS or GW, and harassing people who play/collect AoS or other GW games.

Quote from: grant on November 28, 2015, 05:07:52 PM
Painting and modelling threads that are good - I mean this - are good no matter the subject. That's why they won't drift past "I like your blue guys, what colour, etc" into "Death to GW!" - the hate is captured here.

Quote from: Rhoderic on November 28, 2015, 05:26:09 PM
There was a time when I would have disagreed with that, but these days I agree. Regimental looks and plays far better in the smaller scales, whereas 28mm looks and plays best at a skirmish level. WHFB also doesn't stand up well to other regimental rulesets these days (including some of Rick Priestley's own later ones), and its charm lies mainly in using the older editions to re-live the quaint old times when wonky rulesets didn't matter because you were being a pioneer playing fantasy miniature wargames in the first place (not that there weren't fantasy rulesets before WHFB, of course). My largely negative opinion of AoS is not to do with the fact that it did away with WHFB or the 28mm regimental premise - both being things I abandoned long before GW did.

Yup to all. Especially the bolded part. I don't grit my teeth because folk buy the game, or about the loss of WFB and another 28mm regiment game, so much as the loss of the world, which will eventually filter down to the loss of a lot of the models, and the doubling down on every negative aspect of WFB 8th barring the huge army sizes. (Which still aren't outside the realm of possibility)

With that in mind, I might grit my teeth at GW fans who imply that GW displays genius in their business decisions and no-one else knows what they're talking about. And true: if I'm so smart, why aren't I rich? But I don't need to be LorrShuggir to imagine that keeping the warhammer world, and creating a smaller scale game by summoning up the remnants of whatever created the LotR rules, would be preferable to a much wider audience including a lot of AoS fans, do I?

That's where Dragon Rampant comes in, for me. Smaller skirmish, using tactics rather than special rules, well able to handle skeketal hordes or goblin/gnoblar alliances, I should think. ;) I just wonder if I should still base the 28mm minis for mass battle games too. I'd hazard it might be easier to get a game of KoW than a game with my single Warmaster army, these days. :)

Quote from: thenamelessdead on November 28, 2015, 07:53:30 PM
GW release a £100 model to no reaction - is this how far it has gone now that nobody finds it shocking?!

I'd need about half a day to type out my reaction.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 29, 2015, 01:08:21 AM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on November 29, 2015, 02:12:25 AM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on November 28, 2015, 09:13:18 PM
Hope that wasn't aimed at me.

I'm rather enjoying myself to be quite honest. But it is a real pain in my arse to make decent photos of my minis and post them, to be quite honest, and though I enjoy sharing them with folks, that is not the reason I paint them. Fending off  griefing comments such as "Their too expensive" and "Their too OTT" just isn't worth the bother.

Now back to planning my next purchase...

It's largely because I'm so used to this in general terms of forums, and any discussion of GW (especially, with a very deliberately partisan slant towards discussion of rules, where said argument is most relevant) that I always expect it to be in that context.

In terms of getting those kinds of comments on a painting/hobby thread, that doesn't dismiss the criticisms, but it's utterly inconsiderate. It also shouldn't be off-putting either. I most likely will post pictures of my GW stuff on this forum at some point (although not first. I'll wait 'til I have something more to the forum norm to show first, that's just politeness), but no commentary would put me off. This is pretty normal for Multi-Company fora like this. In fact this lot here seem incredibly polite compared to some other forums. I'm sure I'll half expect the odd comment, but I guess coming from a number of GW forums, this seems like a Mecca of happiness.

I don't wish to be rude, but if you're going to post your work on forums, you do need a reasonably thick skin. Disparaging comments are part of it. I'm not defending them, but they're a reality. If you take general views though (whether they like the models, or the price, or the rules) as a reflection of your work, you're doing yourself a disservice.

Quote from: Vermis on November 29, 2015, 12:14:12 AM
With that in mind, I might grit my teeth at GW fans who imply that GW displays genius in their business decisions and no-one else knows what they're talking about. And true: if I'm so smart, why aren't I rich? But I don't need to be LorrShuggir to imagine that keeping the warhammer world, and creating a smaller scale game by summoning up the remnants of whatever created the LotR rules, would be preferable to a much wider audience including a lot of AoS fans, do I?

This. A million times.

I have no business qualifications. But I have been in the GW bubble, almost unbroken, for about 22 years. What I lack in acumen I more than counter with experience. I know the beast. I know how it works, I've seen their ploys, and seen through them a million times. The amount of times I've predicted changes, I wish I'd put money on them, because I could retire to the fecking Bahamas by now.

The way GW conducts itself is ostensibly corporate. I'm a Support Worker (basically a carer but less emphasis on medical), and I've worked privately, under the NHS, and for a Corporate care company. I'll give you one guess as to which one was the most incompetent and stressful to work for. The latter, by miles. There is too much emphasis on Management, on Enthusiasm and "Can Do" philosophies over straightforward critical views. What GW undoubtedly lacks is a number of dissenting voices. I've had a few friends on staff, and GW has a habit of hiring for positivity about the company above all else. This is a practice they have had for years. Tightened ranks, loyal to a fault. They've tried basically every form of increasing sales, apart from listening to their customers.

I'm not saying this would fix all their problems, but it would certainly get a lot of the disgruntled at least to the point of considering a more positive outlook of the company. But it's undoubtedly that there's too much "Yeah, that'll work" and not much "Don't do that, it's naff/shit/stupid/why are you still here Robin/etc". For example, let's take naming principles. It started with 6th Edition, where the names have been getting increasingly naff. I mean, so bad it's barely even funny. I guess it being so bad nobody else will have taken it, so it's legally useful for IP reasons. But whoever thinks these names sound cool should probably be dumped into a vat of shit. Maybe they already do, and that's where they get their ideas from. Who knows.

There are many examples I could take, many of them cheesy even by wargaming standards, but my favourite chew toy is the Khorne character: Skarr Bloodwrath. I mean, you can imagine that keeping them up all night, can't you. What kind of logic thought that up? Did they scatter the section of "Angry" from a Roget's Thesaurus onto a fucking dartboard?

The cynic in me thinks that the writers at GW now run on spite. Like they're deliberately bad, because fuck you customers!

I wouldn't be surprised.

I know a lot of people defend GW for being put off from a good job by all the "haters", but this argument is utterly illogical. What kind of moron would you have to be to defend a "professional outfit" that deliberately doesn't improve because it gets a bit of criticism. If this was any other wargaming company, hell, any other company, this would be called unprofessional.

That Archaon model being £100. The fucking Rackham Dragon was £45. Jog on GW.

That said, if you buy from Forge World, one hundred quid is nothing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on November 29, 2015, 03:52:31 AM
I admit that I'm hesitating posting a thread about the 30k Night Lords project that I'm embarking on for the reasons that have been discussed on this thread.  I'm more a painter/modeller than a gamer and I prefer narrative style games if I play at all.  The games rules that GW are presenting currently don't interest me in the least but I enjoy painting nice looking models and don't much care where they are coming from as long as they are produced ethically and won't cost me a kidney.

The HH plastics fit the bill.  It's an attractive and affordable set with a fair collection of models at the price point.  Most companies have models that interest me but the games that interest me allow players to choose the models they want to use.

GW offered me my gateway to the miniature painting hobby when I was a kid.  I am grateful for that and feel a great deal of nostalgia for the systems produced during what I'd consider to be their "golden age" within the design studio.  Over the years there has been what I see as a decline from the creative to a more singular vision directing their operations but this realization has for me personally broadened my interests rather than fostering exclusivity.  Where there is a vacume something must fill it.  GW receding from being a driving force or innovator in the gaming market has allowed new voices to demonstrate their worth in contrast.  On the miniature design end I think they have good days but some of the more ostentatious design choices must be the product of too many marketing execs spitballing over an extended power lunch.   

I'm participating in this thread and sharing my musings on the subject here because it seems an appropriate place to discuss the scuttle for good or ill.  I would hope that fellow LAFers whom I have found to be an excellent online commuinity would be respectful enough to limit their corporate analysis to threads like this one rather than disparaging a fellow miniature enthusiast who is offering up their creative endeavours for the community's pleasure.  30k Night Lords thread on Future Wars soon to follow; Be nice :) .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 29, 2015, 03:53:41 AM
What are we talking about now?

I think I would like to suggest that all posts that contain more than, say, 50 words have the following end tag: TL, DR for "too long, didn't read", followed by a five or six word summary of whatever what the fuck just was said.


TL, DR:  GW something or other.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on November 29, 2015, 04:11:54 AM
I gotta agree... the past 10+ pages I have not read at least half the posts for that very reason.  o_o ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on November 29, 2015, 04:37:51 AM
Does kind of make me wonder though why you lot would be on a forum instead of twitter?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 29, 2015, 04:41:52 AM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on November 29, 2015, 04:37:51 AM
Does kind of make me wonder though why you lot would be on a forum instead of twitter?

It's a reddit type convention. Simplifies the message. The library is full of novels.  o_o

Give me a tagline to hook me that convinces me that the previous 8 billion words are actually worth my time. I agree with Timbor: the past 10 pages have been superfluous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on November 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
Quote from: horridperson on November 29, 2015, 03:52:31 AM
30k Night Lords thread on Future Wars soon to follow; Be nice :) .

I hope so! I would love to give it a gander. As I said to Ray, I don't generally care what the subject matter is, I will peruse all the boards here because the standard of craftsmanship in painting and terrain is so high, I can enjoy it even with a smaller interest level in the subject matter.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on November 29, 2015, 05:50:13 AM
@Hupp n at em

Thanks for validating the my opinions on the spirit of the community here.  That's why I enjoy sharing my own and viewing other people's threads here so much.  Whatever the subject I appreciate the exchange of ideas and the mutual appreciation we have for the craft of model building and painting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 29, 2015, 05:51:11 AM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on November 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
I hope so! I would love to give it a gander. As I said to Ray, I don't generally care what the subject matter is, I will peruse all the boards here because the standard of craftsmanship in painting and terrain is so high, I can enjoy it even with a smaller interest level in the subject matter.  :)

Looking forward to 30k Night Lords as well. One of my favourite chapters. My first opponent was a regular Night Lords player. Love the Lightning effects. Not sure of that is 30k or not, but Konrad et al should be great looking!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on November 29, 2015, 10:19:56 AM
This why we keep GW topics all in this one cosy corner...

Remember: keep calm and carry on.

And as the man said: be nice  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on November 29, 2015, 02:47:58 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on November 29, 2015, 02:12:25 AM
There are many examples I could take, many of them cheesy even by wargaming standards, but my favourite chew toy is the Khorne character: Skarr Bloodwrath. I mean, you can imagine that keeping them up all night, can't you.

I've said before that GW seems to be going through some kind of OTT '90's comic book phase. 'Skarr Bloodwrath' sounds like an early Image Comics character.

Though I don't know if it can top the dreadnought Murderfang from the hell world Omnicide, armed with his murderclaws.

Quote from: grant on November 29, 2015, 04:41:52 AM
It's a reddit type convention. Simplifies the message. The library is full of novels.  o_o

Give me a tagline to hook me that convinces me that the previous 8 billion words are actually worth my time. I agree with Timbor: the past 10 pages have been superfluous.

I'll not post my Archaon response, then. lol

To be honest I can't summon up the vitriol anyway. It's just par for the course for GW's current direction. More size, more xxx-treme, more cost, more ennui.

Quote from: Hupp n at em on November 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
I hope so! I would love to give it a gander. As I said to Ray, I don't generally care what the subject matter is, I will peruse all the boards here because the standard of craftsmanship in painting and terrain is so high, I can enjoy it even with a smaller interest level in the subject matter.  :)

Aye, this. As said, this topic's more about the daft things GW do, not what folk do with their GW models. All the same, I'm feeling a bit bad about contributing to the grumpiness. If it's putting people off, I think I'll rein myself in a bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 29, 2015, 02:55:31 PM
Quote from: grant on November 29, 2015, 04:41:52 AM
It's a reddit type convention. Simplifies the message. The library is full of novels.  o_o

Give me a tagline to hook me that convinces me that the previous 8 billion words are actually worth my time. I agree with Timbor: the past 10 pages have been superfluous.

This isn't Reddit, and I'm glad of that. If the lazy, low attention span TL;DR stuff of the internet infests this forum then it will be a great shame.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 29, 2015, 02:57:44 PM
^^^

Gotta say that I agree 100% with the above.

If you can only handle 140 characters, then you are in the wrong place.
 :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 29, 2015, 03:31:59 PM
Seems like we have two camps then. Welcome to the Internet, where no one agrees but everyone gets to say something!  lol

Now, to say that one camp is in the wrong place, or that they are lazy, well, that might be construed as being asinine but otherwise I was on board with respecting your disagreement. Gentlemanly convention of discussion, and all that. So let's not make it personal, and just agree that some like pithy arguments that go on forever, and others rather prefer to get to the point quickly.


How does that sound?

(More than 140 characters, yet... legible...)

as a postscript, I don't use Twitter, Facebook, and very rarely Reddit as I find them useless. I prefer a nice old fashioned forum like this one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 29, 2015, 03:41:24 PM
Happy to agree to disagree. I wasn't singling you out as lazy, but I consider it a lazy trend that I've noticed going on for years online, to the point where it seems if there's no TL;DR summary people's eyes mist over. Again, not speaking to you personally, but if your (general your) time is so precious that a detailed post is too risky to dedicate to, then you shouldn't be on a forum wasting it. :P

Anyway, that's enough off topic I suppose!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 29, 2015, 03:46:37 PM
Yes, cheers. No offence, glad we can discuss and disagree civilly.  ;)


Also - agreed - enough of this stuff, back to bashing GW!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on November 29, 2015, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: horridperson on November 29, 2015, 03:52:31 AM
I admit that I'm hesitating posting a thread about the 30k Night Lords project that I'm embarking on for the reasons that have been discussed on this thread.

I'd say the Stormcast Eternals thread is a good indicator of what kind of response is fair to all parties to expect: Overwhelmingly positive and constructive, with only some very mild comments to the effect of "The figures are [not my cup of tea / dauntingly expensive], but great paintjobs! How did you do those golds?" and a bit of light-hearted, good-natured taking-of-the-piss (directed at GW, not Ray) to the effect of "Not enough skulls and spikes! :D ". A picture scanned from White Dwarf had to be deleted to preempt GW's aggressive copyright lawyers, which was no-one's fault. There's also a bit of debate about whether the figures look like fantasy versions of 40K Space Marines or not, but as that was mostly initiated by Ray himself I don't count it as a negative, "undesired" aspect of the thread.

Overall, IMO, nothing that went beyond the pale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 29, 2015, 04:41:09 PM
Personally, I quite enjoy lengthier posts if they're well written and deliver some content (unlike most of my scatter-brained shot-gun meltdowns).

I'm essentially in line with most other folks here:

1) Grew up on GW products
2) Eventually faded from GW products due to game changes, crazy prices
3) Would like to see GW become cool again
4) Dislike their current business style and game selection

I don't think anyone here wouldn't love to see GW succeed.  No one wants to see a game company fail.  I'd still hop into some of the older games if provided an option.  Heck I picked up my first space marine models in 15 years (the HH plastics) simply based on nostalgia.  I'd pick up Warhammer Quest pretty quick if they re-released it, maybe even a Necromunda or Mordheim box (maaaaybe).

GW has heaps of fans, ex-fans, or could-be-fans who'd gladly toss money at them if they thought it was well spent.  $28 bottles of spray paint fly in the face of that.  It's hard as a customer to not look at some of GW's efforts and think "are they trying to keep me from buying this?".  They just very often strike me as a company who has no idea what they're doing.  There was a podcast which stated (not sure the source) that GW's "hobby equipment" outsold the old Warhammer fantasy range a few years.  More people bought paints and brushes than actual miniatures for Warhammer Fantasy.

(mind...blown)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on November 29, 2015, 07:39:31 PM
Quote from: Elbows on November 29, 2015, 04:41:09 PM
I don't think anyone here wouldn't love to see GW succeed.  No one wants to see a game company fail.

This. TLDR: ^


(EDIT: Sorry if I stopped the discussion, but I just couldn't resist)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on November 30, 2015, 06:21:42 AM
Is Slaanesh dead (or yet to be born or reborn or whatever)?
The beastie Archaon is riding has a Khorne head, a Tzeentch one and a Nurgle...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on November 30, 2015, 06:57:54 AM
As far as I understood Slaanesh is indeed out of the equation. Killed or captured by the elves and bassicly replaced by the horned Rat.
Some angry voices claim this is to make the line more family friendly, but *insert boobage vs Gore discussion here*.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: -DE- on November 30, 2015, 06:59:26 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on November 30, 2015, 06:21:42 AM
Is Slaanesh dead (or yet to be born or reborn or whatever)?
The beastie Archaon is riding has a Khorne head, a Tzeentch one and a Nurgle...

Apparently, the heads belong to the three champions of the chaos gods Archaon managed to get the better of. Slaanesh is MIA and failed to send his own, hence no slaaneshi head on the mount.

His symbol is still visible on Archaon's shield and the model packaging, so he's evidently not out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 30, 2015, 09:12:38 AM
Maybe they're just waiting to see if they can recruit Brother Vinni to do up a new line of Slaaneshi figures.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on November 30, 2015, 10:44:05 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 30, 2015, 09:12:38 AM
Maybe they're just waiting to see if they can recruit Brother Vinni to do up a new line of Slaaneshi figures.  ;D

Quote from: Mason on November 28, 2015, 08:24:17 PM
The best bit is the paint set that they suggest you get for it......

Archaon Everchosen Paint Bundle
An awesome set of paints for a truly awesome model - this collection of fifty paints will help you to bring out the incredible detail on Archaon Everchosen!

I heard they'll also release a Slaanesh paint set, which only consists of...

Sorry, I cannot bring myself to finish this punchline.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 30, 2015, 08:55:17 PM
Dwarf flesh? Because seeing dwarf flesh turns me on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 30, 2015, 10:38:04 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on November 30, 2015, 10:44:05 AM
I heard they'll also release a Slaanesh paint set, which only consists of...

Sorry, I cannot bring myself to finish this punchline.

Fifty shades of g....... ;)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on November 30, 2015, 11:30:07 PM
Quote from: Mason on November 30, 2015, 10:38:04 PM
Fifty shades of g....... ;)
If it's anything like most Warhammer armies I see, that'll be Fifty Shades of Grey Plastic...

 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 01, 2015, 04:54:38 AM
Scurv, if you're in Aussy land you can also buy that new gold spray-paint for around $35-40 AUD.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on December 01, 2015, 06:04:15 AM
Quote from: Mason on November 30, 2015, 10:38:04 PM
Fifty shades of g....... ;)



What have I started....
Alas, poor Slaanesh... is he dead in 40K too?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 01, 2015, 07:46:10 AM
No, he's just resting...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/DeadParrot.png)
 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 01, 2015, 09:56:51 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on December 01, 2015, 06:04:15 AM
What have I started....
Alas, poor Slaanesh... is he dead in 40K too?

Quote from: Modhail on December 01, 2015, 07:46:10 AM
No, he's just resting...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/DeadParrot.png
 :D

Perfection. Sheer perfection. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on December 01, 2015, 10:42:55 AM
Quote from: Modhail on December 01, 2015, 07:46:10 AM
No, he's just resting...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/DeadParrot.png
 :D

Everyone shut down the thread, modhail wins!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 01, 2015, 12:31:40 PM
You know, in pure cost terms, it would actually be fair comparison between using real gold leaf on your Sigmarines vs using a can of Retributor Armour spray here in the UK... ::)

Of course, actual gold leaf wouldn't really be the most appropriate material to apply to miniatures, but still.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 01, 2015, 12:33:01 PM
Are we talking miniature hookers and blow or full sized ones?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on December 01, 2015, 12:38:24 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 01, 2015, 02:13:51 AM
10 chaos men for $100AUD

Scurv, I agree with your assessment of GWs money sense, but I'd look at ebay for those marauders, I got 10 for $30 recently, hopefully you could do the same.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on December 01, 2015, 12:55:33 PM
Fifty shades of goblin green.

It´s a great paint set for doing bases, so I hear.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 01, 2015, 01:04:54 PM
Slaanesh has been locked up for indecency by the Aelf/elf/elve/pointy ears. whatevers

Not dead, just being forced to comply with decency requirements of target audience....?

Blood - OK 12 years and up
Skulls, bones, more blood, puss, goo, beheadings, slaughter, war for eternity etc - ok 12 years and up.

Exposed boobies, tenticles and other possibly suggestive things -oh I don't think so!!!

Rats yes, giant rat things with breast chain guns etc, ok

So logically replace slaanesh for a while to ensure the kiddies are "allowed" to pay/play.

After all, when they grow up surely they will all turn into decerning collectors anyway, able to afford the latest releases from their own pockets by then?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on December 01, 2015, 06:01:31 PM
Quote
No, he's just resting...

 Cheesy
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 01, 2015, 09:56:51 AM
Perfection. Sheer perfection. lol
Brilliant  :D :D :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 01, 2015, 06:45:13 PM
Back in the early 90's slaanesh (Spelling?) was fine. Any boobies shown were more like udders on a sow TBH. All they needed to do was tone it down to a PG level.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 01, 2015, 10:24:06 PM
My biggest issue with the GW pricing is that it's inconsistent and they occasionally release products which undermine the entire line of miniatures.

For $126 USD in the HH box you get the following:

-Two character figures
-Five terminators w/ additional arm options
-A dreadnought w/ arm options
-30 tactical marines including arm options, leaders, combi-weapons, heavy weapons, special weapons and extra kit.
-A tabletop game w/ custom dice etc.

If I want a pack of six Eldar Striking Scorpions I shell out $35 (matching the discount on the HH box, they're listed at $42)--- and I believe they're in super-not-gamer-friendly-resin. (did we mention Eldar players can no longer buy Aspect Warriors - their key infantry figures - in anything other than finecast...)

That's a disparity without even going to other companies.

What bugs me is that I even bought the HH box.  It's not a matter of "man I like your stuff but the prices are so high".  The prices are borderline insulting and it really makes me not want to support the company on those grounds alone.  Even though the HH box is a good deal, it made me die inside a little to support the company which I used to really enjoy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 02, 2015, 07:57:02 AM
Interesting side note, Forgeworld sells bundels of their products and betrayal at calth. Most of them chapter specific bodies and pads to fit the set (not a bad idea) but also a bundle of three sets and a bunch of vehicles, so that gets you the actual game trice, just to get a decent number of 30K marines.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on December 03, 2015, 05:53:36 AM
I keep getting kinda interested in doing up a proxy army of my own design. As in, sculpting a handful of key units, then cranking out a bunch of resin castings. Not for sale, just for myself.

For me it's just the appeal of the creative side: getting to do my own aesthetic take on the abstract lore concepts. Saw someone on another forum who did this for his Necron army, and made them all into hovering Dalek-y things instead of metal skellies. I've got sketches of alternate 'Nids I did ten years ago 'cause I though the dinobug look of the official ones seemed like they should be fighting He-Man instead of terrorizing an entire galaxy of other grimdark doomhorrors. Nids should look like proper pizza nightmares, not something out of Napoleon Dynamite's trapper-keeper.

AAAaaaaaanyway, the weird part is, these days doing this would actually be the cheap option. I could do hundreds for the cost of dozens of the official ones, which are mass manufactured by the thousands. Economy of scale isn't supposed to work like that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 04, 2015, 10:03:47 PM
I can never really get over GW pricing. 9 minis for $600.  lol

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Knights-of-Ruin

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 04, 2015, 10:39:52 PM
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Mechanicum-Ordinatus-Ulator

Take off the tracks, strap a stock on it, and you've got yourself a cosplay weapon right there.
(and a massive dent in your overdraft.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 04, 2015, 11:09:38 PM
Unreal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 12:12:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztk35YzCCQg

 :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 05, 2015, 12:16:45 AM
They remind me of these vintage, horrible Tonka action figures:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-X6nUz6INac4/Tq6oqNSNo9I/AAAAAAAAE4U/N0nkwgpD-aI/s1600/supernaturals.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 05, 2015, 02:03:55 AM
Quote from: nic-e on December 04, 2015, 10:39:52 PM
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Mechanicum-Ordinatus-Ulator

Take off the tracks, strap a stock on it, and you've got yourself a cosplay weapon right there.
(and a massive dent in your overdraft.)

What's this 'volkite' thing I see attached to new 40K guns? I noticed Space Marines got grav guns a while back. Any relation?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 05, 2015, 07:00:45 AM
Quote from: Vermis on December 05, 2015, 02:03:55 AM
What's this 'volkite' thing I see attached to new 40K guns? I noticed Space Marines got grav guns a while back. Any relation?

Literally no idea!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 05, 2015, 09:21:17 AM
Hadn't even spotted that one yet.  lol The gravity gun was the latest addition I was aware of. Did a quick search and this was the best info I could find:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Volkite_Weapon (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Volkite_Weapon)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 05, 2015, 09:42:09 AM
I might be interested in a Chaos knight or two... I think they could make great deamonic mounts or even Nightmares for Vampire Counts. That's a price and parts-count dependent comment though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 01:13:53 PM
Think they are a box set of 3 for 60 GBPs.

Looking at them compared to the Stormcast archers... they are massive models... which is another reason I so grove with these minis. At 40mm all the AoS models are quite massive. This allows me to paint every little detail without my eyes bleeding. They have upwards to double the surface to paint but because of their size it means even if I paint my heros exactly the same way as my normal troops they just pop right out as being what they are... heros. So you don't have to given them special treatment, just paint them like your normal troops and if you have a level of painting quality better than novice they come looking spectacular.

I finished my Prosecutors and they look awesome. I am working on Lord Relictor and there is just no doubt that he is a Hero mini (the detail is amazing), and you will be able to tell that instantly when you plop them on the table top because even at a distance they just scream at you for attention.

AoS is my first foray into both fantasy and skirmish gaming and my feeling is that GW is going to redefine how folks view skirmish fantasy wargaming. I mean if you are going to paint up only a limited amount of miniatures (a warband), why go with 28mm? You paint them up nice and they get lost in all the terrain. That won't happen with AoS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on December 05, 2015, 01:21:19 PM
Well, for me, the bigger the figures, the smaller the battlefield - and even if your fighting takes place in only one bit of the board, more space gives at least an idea of freedom for lots of moving about and varied scenarios. The epitome of this is in Jevenkah and Teshub's battle reports where there's lots of room for moving and for a story to develop significantly in one battle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 05, 2015, 01:40:50 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 01:13:53 PM
Think they are a box set of 3 for 60 GBPs.

Looking at them compared to the Stormcast archers... they are massive models... which is another reason I so grove with these minis. At 40mm all the AoS models are quite massive. This allows me to paint every little detail without my eyes bleeding. They have upwards to double the surface to paint but because of their size it means even if I paint my heros exactly the same way as my normal troops they just pop right out as being what they are... heros. So you don't have to given them special treatment, just paint them like your normal troops and if you have a level of painting quality better than novice they come looking spectacular.

I finished my Prosecutors and they look awesome. I am working on Lord Relictor and there is just no doubt that he is a Hero mini (the detail is amazing), and you will be able to tell that instantly when you plop them on the table top because even at a distance they just scream at you for attention.

AoS is my first foray into both fantasy and skirmish gaming and my feeling is that GW is going to redefine how folks view skirmish fantasy wargaming. I mean if you are going to paint up only a limited amount of miniatures (a warband), why go with 28mm? You paint them up nice and they get lost in all the terrain. That won't happen with AoS.

I may have to take a look if they are more 40mm scale....I have plans to do 40mm in the future as my eyes are struggling enough with painting 28's these days.
I wont be playing AoS as I really do not like the look or the concept but there may be something in the range that I can convert and use, though.
Oh, and I wont be paying those prices either, but that is what ebay is there for.
 ;)

One thing: If they are mostly 40mm, how do the old 28's from the Warhammer range fit it and are they going to keep making the larger models and gradually fade out the older, smaller stuff??
 ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 05, 2015, 01:55:59 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 01:13:53 PM
my feeling is that GW is going to redefine how folks view skirmish fantasy wargaming. I mean if you are going to paint up only a limited amount of miniatures (a warband), why go with 28mm? You paint them up nice and they get lost in all the terrain. That won't happen with AoS.

The larger-than-human Sigmarines and new Chaos warriors are just GW trying to imitate WarmaHordes. Privateer Press started setting that trend 12-13 years ago.

GW ceased being the company with the power to redefine wargaming some time back. Other companies and other people are doing that now, in a (thankfully!) more decentralised manner. GW still enjoys a special position in the industry in regard to having its own stores, a "venerable" (if terribly mismanaged) brand and much of the market share, but where trend-setting is concerned, it's just another mook in the conga line nowadays.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 02:07:54 PM
Quote from: Mason on December 05, 2015, 01:40:50 PM
One thing: If they are mostly 40mm, how do the old 28's from the Warhammer range fit it and are they going to keep making the larger models and gradually fade out the older, smaller stuff??

They are definitely 40mm. These minis are not designed to "fit in." Warhammer as everyone knows it is gone... forever.

Look at this photo of Lord Relictor. The bone in his leg and the skeleton in his banner would equate to 28mm:

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/60010299006_AoSStarter360LordRelictor.jpg)

I believe the general plan by GW is to phase out the older Warhammer miniatures as they get sold out.

Of note, there have been posted images of a new Dwarfs sprue that GW has slipped inside some folks online purchases. It is pretty obvious the new Dwarfs will dwarf the old dwarfs. They are called Fyreslayers and the detail is astonishing.

There is also a new Tzeentch Gaunt Summoner coming out next year. I'd post a link but I'm tired of folks given me cr@p.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 05, 2015, 02:47:45 PM
... sigh ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 03:10:59 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 05, 2015, 02:47:45 PM
... sigh ...

 lol

One has to also re-orient your thinking when it comes to the new system in AoS as regards to warbands.

Before, in Warhammer, you would select a faction, such as Empire, and then build a massive army. That concept went out the window with AoS.

Now, you can "bring whatever you want" to the table. Meaning, not some massive army of skeletons vs a handful of Stormcast Eternals, but a group of minis all belonging to the same alliance (Chaos, Death, Destruction, Order). So you can choose whatever minis you want to be in your warband, they just need to be from the same alliance. So, for example, if you choose Chaos you can bring minis from Khorne, Skaven, Orcs, etc. That is how the game works and that is how the GW website is set-up. Of course, if you build a specific Warband, you get special bonuses, but you don't have to do that if you don't want.

You know there is so much mis-information and utter garbage being posted about AoS on the net. But if the net was always so good at evaluating things, Ron Paul would be the President of the United States.  ;)

That's it for now... can't post on this thread for long before one gets utterly exhausted from all the griefers, trolls and GW haters.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 05, 2015, 03:33:55 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 03:10:59 PM
That's it for now... can't post on this thread for long before one gets utterly exhausted from all the griefers, trolls and GW haters.

Let's take it easy, here. "Trolls" is a serious accusation. Trolls are bad people indeed - malicious people who participate in forum discussions for the sole purpose of engendering discord and resentment. I see none of their ilk in this discussion so far.

The "griefing" and "GW hating" is just a large number of individuals who are all, independently of each other, disillusioned with GW and discussing that fact amongst themselves and other hobbyists (any and all of whom are allowed to have dissenting opinions). The fact that there's so many of us says more about GW than it says about us.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 05, 2015, 03:52:08 PM
I also think it's safe to say the vast majority of the people who are not fans of GW have been GW players before.  My best friend used to manage a GW retail location here in the states.  My entire group was 40K...including staying locked in at the mall on week nights playing huge 10,000 pt. games until three in the morning.

No one in that group plays 40K, Warhammer Fantasy or AOS now.  I've said it before, we'd all like to see GW become sane and reasonable again.  We even got a little excited when the rumoured "Specialist" games were possibly coming back.  We'd gladly pick up Mordheim/Warhammer Quest/Necromunda etc. if they were reasonably priced.  GW has made their business decisions and they'll sink or swim based on them - it's quite obvious they're not paying a lot of attention to market research or consumer feedback.

I don't see hating or trolling here...just genuine customers who are shocked by the business decisions GW makes.  And if you can't make fun of $28 bottles of spray-paint, what can you make fun of?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 03:59:11 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 05, 2015, 03:33:55 PM
Let's take it easy, here. "Trolls" is a serious accusation.

Only someone who is disillusional would think that trolling does not occur on this thread. Thank God it is confined to here as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: richstrach on December 05, 2015, 04:10:52 PM
Quote from: beefcake on December 04, 2015, 10:03:47 PM
I can never really get over GW pricing. 9 minis for $600.  lol

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Knights-of-Ruin



That does seem insane, I had no idea they were even pricier in NZ/Australia. In comparison, that set is £180 in the UK (about NZ$400)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 05, 2015, 04:13:01 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 01:13:53 PM
Think they are a box set of 3 for 60 GBPs.

Looking at them compared to the Stormcast archers... they are massive models...

Ah well, it looks like they'll be unsuitable anyway then. I appreciate the info though, thank you!

Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 02:07:54 PM
I'd post a link but I'm tired of folks given me cr@p.
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 03:10:59 PM
That's it for now... can't post on this thread for long before one gets utterly exhausted from all the griefers, trolls and GW haters.
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 03:59:11 PM
Only someone who is disillusional would think that trolling does not occur on this thread.

You know, many of the smack-talk comments in this thread are yours.

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 05, 2015, 01:55:59 PM
GW ceased being the company with the power to redefine wargaming some time back. Other companies and other people are doing that now, in a (thankfully!) more decentralised manner. GW still enjoys a special position in the industry in regard to having its own stores, a "venerable" (if terribly mismanaged) brand and much of the market share, but where trend-setting is concerned, it's just another mook in the conga line nowadays.

I feel that they still dominate in the area of making plastic kits. Love, loathe, or feel indifferent to their model designs; they are the industry leaders in making plastic figures for wargaming with. I feel that -in techincal terms- thier plastics are still generally the benchmark set for others to reach, even though many other companies are hot on their heels and closing the gap ever faster. (Although, arguably, some companies have already surpassed GW in some areas here as well).

Games-wise, I feel GW got left behind long ago. I also suspect they feel that way too, as they seem to have largely given up on making interesting games any more, and even the potential resurrection of Specialist games is more likely about protecting their IP claims and getting attention than making interesting games again.

Quote from: Elbows on December 05, 2015, 03:52:08 PM
GW has made their business decisions and they'll sink or swim based on them - it's quite obvious they're not paying a lot of attention to market research or consumer feedback.

They apparently do no market research, and listen to no customer feedback. That's why this thread is 291 pages long, and why GW are losing market share steadily every year.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: harleyface on December 05, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
Thank you for posting those Dwarf pictures.
GW lost me a long time ago and those want definitly not change that...
Regarding GW.Ihave it somewhere already written but i have to say it again.
They introduced me to wargaming and it was a great time.
Maybe its just normal to change gaming habbits.
Especially here in germany its a bit difficult to play wargames.
People just dont understand it.
So GW is perfect for getting into the hobby.
Still like GW somehow but they just dont produce what i like anymore...
Im really happy there are people like you who post gw stuff
Greetings from Germany
Florian
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 05, 2015, 04:20:39 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 03:10:59 PM
lol
 But if the net was always so good at evaluating things, Ben Carson would be the President of the United States.  ;)


Made if funnier.  lol

Quote from: Cubs on December 05, 2015, 02:47:45 PM
... sigh ...

Thanks for the pic. Truly, another shark-jumping moment. Awful.

(http://files-us.myalbum.io/photo/360/KF/ww/KFwwRR2VfDMn.jpg)


Quote from: Rhoderic on December 05, 2015, 03:33:55 PM
Let's take it easy, here. "Trolls" is a serious accusation. Trolls are bad people indeed - malicious people who participate in forum discussions for the sole purpose of engendering discord and resentment. I see none of their ilk in this discussion so far.

Well, some of us try, but we're just not very good at it.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 05, 2015, 04:22:10 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 03:10:59 PM
One has to also re-orient your thinking when it comes to the new system in AoS as regards to warbands.

It's not the numbers of figures, nor even the price for me ... it's the design. Every time I think they have peaked with over-the-top indulgence, vast hats and implausibly huge weapons, they laugh at me and say, "We haven't even got started yet!"

Thanks for sharing, it's interesting to see nonetheless.  
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: harleyface on December 05, 2015, 04:22:31 PM
My first wargaming mini was a gw dwarf back in the 80s
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on December 05, 2015, 04:49:36 PM
And once again... sigh... Please let's try to keep it civil and avoid finger-pointing.

It's true. There's a lot of moaning about GW on this thread. But then, honestly - that's what it's here for.
To channel all conversations about GW, with all that attendant and inevitable negativity into one place. And stop it infecting the rest of our generally happy, positive, good-natured forum.

Perhaps we could just try to avoid the name-calling blame game either way? Thanks :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 05, 2015, 05:17:48 PM
Criticism of GW - however intense it may be - is not an attack on anyone who's into GW.

The fact that hearing such criticism can be tiring and devitalising to a GW enthusiast is unfortunate and not something I believe anyone in this forum wants. But at the same time, it shouldn't reflect badly back on the people voicing that criticism for valid reasons of their own which have nothing to do with trying to ruin the hobby for anyone else.

Likewise, if an individual is disillusioned with GW, then the fact that he or she is one of a very large number of people with similar opinions should not reflect badly back on him or her. It may however reflect badly on GW.

EDIT: This post is not intended in reply to Captain Blood (as it may appear through my clumsy writing), but rather in reply to the discussion going on before his intervention.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 05, 2015, 05:52:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on December 05, 2015, 04:49:36 PM
It's true. There's a lot of moaning about GW on this thread. But then, honestly - that's what it's here for.
To channel all conversations about GW, with all that attendant and inevitable negativity into one place. And stop it infecting the rest of our generally happy, positive, good-natured forum.

Agreed!

Quote from: Captain Blood on December 05, 2015, 04:49:36 PM
Perhaps we could just try to avoid the name-calling blame game either way? Thanks :)

I would like that.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 05, 2015, 05:58:56 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 05, 2015, 04:13:01 PM



They apparently do no market research, and listen to no customer feedback. That's why this thread is 291 pages long, and why GW are losing market share steadily every year.

I genuinely do believe that with the new CEO that is going to change. They seem to be doing what the community has been asking for for a long time, and whilst i doubt they'll be having open forums any time soon, i'm sure there are more than a few people whos unofficial job at GW is to skim the forums and see what's in demand and what's flopping like a flip flop with erectile dysfunction.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 05, 2015, 06:03:39 PM
Quote from: nic-e on December 05, 2015, 05:58:56 PM
[...] i'm sure there are more than a few people whos unofficial job at GW is to skim the forums and see what's in demand and what's flopping like a flip flop with erectile dysfunction.

"From your lips to God's ears"?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on December 05, 2015, 06:31:16 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 05, 2015, 03:52:08 PM
We even got a little excited when the rumoured "Specialist" games were possibly coming back. 

I was somewhat interested in the Hobbit/LotR part of those news till I realized it probably just means they'll be making things like "Elven Sun-Cannon", "Mordor Magma-Launcher", "Valar Skyship of Judgement" and the like for it, instead of making the current "Fine"cast stuff available in metal or plastic.
I'd really like to meet the bozo who thought that pikemen need to made in resin.  :-X

On the bright side, AoS and the aftermath of it at least made my brother quit both Warhammer Fantasy (though I suppose it can be argued that GW quit it for him?) and 40k so maybe I should send them a "Thank You" card.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 05, 2015, 06:41:46 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 05, 2015, 02:07:54 PM
(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/60010299006_AoSStarter360LordRelictor.jpg)

I have not been following GW this year and I haven't read every page of this thread.  I just looked this figure up and I was surprised to find that it's not a space marine.  A couple serious questions then:
What is it?  
Is there a faction of these in AoS?  
Is this a crossover with 40k?

Sorry, just a bit confused.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 05, 2015, 06:44:28 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on December 05, 2015, 06:31:16 PM
"Valar Skyship of Judgement"

I am not ashamed to say i would buy that...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 05, 2015, 06:53:53 PM
Quote from: eilif on December 05, 2015, 06:41:46 PM
What is it?  
Is there a faction of these in AoS?  

Yes, they are an AoS faction: "The Stormcast Eternals". Basically Terminator-sized Fantasy not-Space Marines who are Sigmar's chosen eternal/immortal champions that he sends out on missions to fight the forces of evil and retreive magical macguffins. (Sigmar is the the humans' god BTW).

The Lord Relictor model is akin to a space Marine Chaplain in some ways, and they guard the souls of fallen Stormcast Eternals to ensure that they can be born again and return to the fight. They also act as priests of Sigmar.


Quote from: eilif on December 05, 2015, 06:41:46 PM
Is this a crossover with 40k?
Sorry, just a bit confused.

No crossover into 40k, even though they do look like they belong there better. Their passing similarity to Space Marines is why they earned their nickname "Sigmarines", so you're not alone in making that connection.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 05, 2015, 07:05:06 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 05, 2015, 06:59:01 PM
it is criminal. A heroin habit is cheaper to have than a GW army here.
Most gaming stores here have pretty much phased out GW or reduced it to a corner of the store. Mantic FoW Privateer Press, the new osprey games like IHMN and Frostgrave have all taken up its shelf space.

The amount of badly painted GW in second hand lots have pretty much dried up too. No one is buying in and giving up anymore.

Same here in Canada. GW is fading away. So long? It's the new games that "get it" that are like hot cakes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 05, 2015, 07:20:41 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 05, 2015, 04:13:01 PM
I feel that they still dominate in the area of making plastic kits. Love, loathe, or feel indifferent to their model designs; they are the industry leaders in making plastic figures for wargaming with. I feel that -in techincal terms- thier plastics are still generally the benchmark set for others to reach, even though many other companies are hot on their heels and closing the gap ever faster. (Although, arguably, some companies have already surpassed GW in some areas here as well).

Games-wise, I feel GW got left behind long ago. I also suspect they feel that way too, as they seem to have largely given up on making interesting games any more, and even the potential resurrection of Specialist games is more likely about protecting their IP claims and getting attention than making interesting games again.

Yeah, I did mainly mean games-wise. They still have some modicum of a lead in respect to designing plastic kits, I agree. For instance, it's interesting that on that new Dwarf "Fyreslayer" (bleh) sprue, the helmet is a separate piece from the head. It can be assembled as an actual hollow, unworn helmet. That's significant because it should presumably allow modellers to variegate the figures more so that the same beard and face are not always matched with the same helmet and crest. Then again, younger, less experienced modellers may end up with unsightly lines where the two halves of the helmet join, or with helmets that are misaligned with the heads. I still maintain that GW is, to a considerable degree, targeting a young customer base, and that in so doing it is callously and cynically disregarding the fact that young'uns may not be able to assemble and paint the figures well.

But anyway, as you also say, other companies are closing the gap. Which is a very positive thing as it means better wargaming products all round.

Quote from: nic-e on December 05, 2015, 05:58:56 PM
I genuinely do believe that with the new CEO that is going to change. They seem to be doing what the community has been asking for for a long time

In regard to this and the Specialist Games, I'm trying to maintain some small germ of hope. I could even imagine myself taking up Necromunda, Mordheim, BFG etc even if they come back as something very different to what they originally were, assuming they'll still have some kind of self-worth as what they are, regardless of what they may have been in the past. But my expectations of GW are justifiably low, so I'm not exactly setting aside money for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 05, 2015, 07:45:13 PM
Cease and desist order in 5..4..3..2.. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 06, 2015, 12:17:19 AM
Quote from: Scurv on December 05, 2015, 06:59:01 PM
Most gaming stores here have pretty much phased out GW or reduced it to a corner of the store.

Happens around here, too.

Sadly, only the dedicated games-stores (of which there are very few) are taking in stocks of other systems, so I fear that gaming is going to see hard times ahead.

Hobby-stores are simply phasing out their existing GW-stock, as they are not really aware of the other manufacturers. One owner of such a store in which I have been making purchases now and then since the mid-70s, told me a couple of years ago, that already then there was virtually not any money in selling GW-products anymore. Slow turnover, combined with high purchase prices and small profit margin, plus the demand from GW to order fixed numbers of a given product code, meant that shelf space was better used on other products.

Back then he reduced the space taken up by GW-products by about 3/4, and today they only take up a fraction of that.

Without stores to push games (at reasonable prices) to new players (we only have ONE dedicated store on Funen, in Odense) I don't see how new gamers are going to be 'created' for the hobby in general.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 06, 2015, 02:46:32 AM
Quote from: YPU on December 05, 2015, 09:21:17 AM
Hadn't even spotted that one yet.  lol The gravity gun was the latest addition I was aware of. Did a quick search and this was the best info I could find:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Volkite_Weapon (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Volkite_Weapon)

Hmm. Just sounds like a melta weapon, TBH. Ta though.

Quote from: Elbows on December 05, 2015, 03:52:08 PM
I also think it's safe to say the vast majority of the people who are not fans of GW have been GW players before... I've said it before, we'd all like to see GW become sane and reasonable again.  We even got a little excited when the rumoured "Specialist" games were possibly coming back.

Agreed that most of us are ex-GW fans waiting for GW to become sane and reasonable again, but sometimes I wonder if it was ever sane and reasonable - regarding it's two core games, anyway. It was a bit cheaper, perhaps, not as insane and unreasonable...
Granted, I wasn't there for most of it, but looking at one example like Oldhammer - and here I take my life in my hands - I get the impression that the main motivation is nostalgia and lost youth, moreso than rules or model quality. Maybe GW always targeted a younger customer base (including excitable teenagers, and especially with it's WFB/40K rules style) but these days it's a bit more apparent, skewed a bit younger. Maybe even part of the reason for gamers ragequitting after GW shakes the snowglobe (i.e. changes editions) is because the rules, viewed in a slightly different form, have been outgrown.

On the topic of Specialist Games: I remember the claim, attributed to Jervis Johnson, that the SGs were intended for more 'mature' gamers. I don't have many issues with that, meself. Pretty much agreed. They were an outlet for older gamers to play more tactical, or deeper games in GW's settings. (Probably the biggest draws GW had for their main games, especially in recent years) Trouble is that they were snatched away, at least in a convenient, supported form. Then the most readily available way of gaming in the Warhammer and 40K settings were... Warhammer and 40K. Who'd be crazy enough to go that route?
Even with alternative rules, the minis were gradually put out of reach by skyrocketing prices. Now, the majority of GW's fantasy range might even be discontinued. What it's apparently being replaced with, well, as Rhoderic says, it doesn't look like it's intended to appeal to older gamers.

For Grant's sake ( ;) ) TL;DR: the Warhammer world was taken away from us, by the mere act of aging (IMO) and by GW's refusal to allow for that, in the interests of money-grubbing. If we had to sum up the reason for all the internet-wide antipathy towards GW, and AoS in particular, in one line, that'd be my take on it. YMMV.

On the topic of Specialist Games' return: I'm sceptical. It's a good thing, on the face of it. SG vets get new models, gamers new to SGs get a convenient, official taste of what all the fuss is about. But when they're planning to sell these games that were originally discontinued because they 'didn't sell', I can't help but think it's less about "Say, we've neglected our old customers. Let's show them how much we appreciate them!" and more about "Oh crap oh crap oh crap! We need something to sell! What have we got to sell? Quick, search the dumpsters!"
As for what form they might take, I dunno. I don't know if GW can put out a mature wargame ruleset these days, let alone remember that SGs were intended for older gamers. (I hear an external board game writer was hired for Battle of Calth) The rules as they were, with minimal tinkering, might be the best bet. But then the rumoured one-off box sets, even a string of box sets for each game, might be another hurdle. It doesn't sound like it'll add up to a cohesive, constantly-available range of minis.

But we'll see. They don't even have the Specialist Studio set up yet, AFAIK. Early doors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 06, 2015, 05:24:11 AM
I wholeheartedly agree that the Oldhammer attraction is nostalgia (and not a little charm).  I've always said that I liked GW back when it was broke and run by nerds...before they hired proper business folk to attend to the business.  Remember when White Dwarf showed you how to make a Land Raider from WW1 tank kits, because it wasn't available from GW?  There was a time when the guys running GW were just gamers - now that probably made for a terrible business, but the atmosphere was much less "feed the machine!".

Now, the info I'm about to drop is no less than 10 years old, but when my buddy was managing a GW retail store in the very early 2000's the sales policies were aimed at first-time buyers.  The managers were told that the whole goal was to get mom/dad to buy their child $200+/- of stuff in the first big purchase.  Subsequent purchases were not as important in the business strategy at that time.  They didn't care too much about the occasional gamer picking up a single box or a paint brush or paint now and then.  Of course this strategy was laid out to the managers in their yearly conferences.

Now, since then...GW shut down the majority of its retail locations and is only now opening up new ones.  I'm sure business practices have changed in 10+ years time.

Regarding the specialist stuff, I always thought these were far superior to the build-armies games.  They were about $60 at the time, offered a complete game in a box, and in general were definitely more deep.  I thought they were easily GW's best products.  I have no idea what sales were like - but all of my gaming group had warbands and copies of Necromunda, Mordheim, etc.  They were definitely plenty popular.  I know Epic never sold too well, and the old Man o' War wasn't too successful.  I think for a retail store though it was a good idea to have these "one stop boxes" for the purchasers looking to get their kid into something but unable/unwilling to buy $200+ worth of stuff to get started.

I think they had some seriously quality titles available via their Historicals side...but that's another subject entirely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 06, 2015, 06:22:21 AM
Appreciated then tldr summary   lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 06, 2015, 12:33:31 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 06, 2015, 05:24:11 AM
I've always said that I liked GW back when it was broke and run by nerds...before they hired proper business folk to attend to the business.  Remember when White Dwarf showed you how to make a Land Raider from WW1 tank kits, because it wasn't available from GW?

Well, like I say, I wasn't there for most of it. lol I think my GW/wargaming hobby started at an awkward juncture. I was into model kits when I was younger (I was never not a nerd...) and liked the idea of fighting battles with them. There was also a bit of that 'run by nerds' feeling left, mostly 'Fat Bloke' White Dwarf, which I agree was a good thing.
But it was about the turn of the millenium, when I was already in my late teens - to quote a wise old master, maybe 'too old to begin the training'. It also wouldn't be too long before GW released more considered, balanced games like LotR and the last gasp of the SGs, which only served to highlight the deficiencies of 3rd ed 40K and 6th ed WFB. Or at least that they weren't suited to me, and vice versa. (I have more nostalgia for Epic:A's short run than for 40K and FB combined) I guess it was also about the time that the internet really got going with wargaming communities, and publicising other wargames.
And then it wouldn't be much longer before GW started doubling down on their mercenary image: releasing the infamous 'giant issue' of White Dwarf, cutting off the SGs, etc. That put paid to GW for me.
Trouble was, like I said earlier, I was already hooked on their settings to game in. GW just makes them harder and harder to game in.

It's like... if the only versions of the original Star Wars trilogy you could buy were the ones with horrible special edition and prequel stuff shoehorned in... oh wait. o_o

(With AoS, it's like the original trilogy was scrapped altogether and all you have are the prequels)

Quote
Now, the info I'm about to drop is no less than 10 years old, but when my buddy was managing a GW retail store in the very early 2000's the sales policies were aimed at first-time buyers.  The managers were told that the whole goal was to get mom/dad to buy their child $200+/- of stuff in the first big purchase.  Subsequent purchases were not as important in the business strategy at that time.

Aye, I've heard that.

Quote
Now, since then...GW shut down the majority of its retail locations and is only now opening up new ones.  I'm sure business practices have changed in 10+ years time.

Were they even sustainable back then? :) 10+ years ago... about the time the Return of the King movie came out and the LotR bubble burst. Does that suggest that, without LotR propping them up, GW's business practises weren't all that?

Quote
I have no idea what sales were like - but all of my gaming group had warbands and copies of Necromunda, Mordheim, etc.  They were definitely plenty popular.  I know Epic never sold too well

In your group, or in general? I'd heard that, before Epic 40K, it was considered GW's third core game.

Quote from: grant on December 06, 2015, 06:22:21 AM
Appreciated then tldr summary   lol

:)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 06, 2015, 01:15:28 PM
Quote from: Vermis on December 06, 2015, 02:46:32 AM

Granted, I wasn't there for most of it, but looking at one example like Oldhammer - and here I take my life in my hands - I get the impression that the main motivation is nostalgia and lost youth, moreso than rules or model quality. Maybe GW always targeted a younger customer base (including excitable teenagers, and especially with it's WFB/40K rules style) but these days it's a bit more apparent, skewed a bit younger. Maybe even part of the reason for gamers ragequitting after GW shakes the snowglobe (i.e. changes editions) is because the rules, viewed in a slightly different form, have been outgrown.

I think that's certainly a factor, no doubt about it. But it all had a much more accessible and familiar aesthetic 'back in the day', and I'm talking the 80's and early 90's here. It all had a Middle Earth feel to it, with races we understood and enjoyed. There was much more of a light hearted and easy going appeal to the background, the rules and the models.

Looking at the models, they had good, classic poses, with realistic proportions and weapons. Lots of people were able to use their historical models for gaming with, because they fitted.

But then looking at how it all changed, from a game that was gently self-deprecating sometimes, to sometimes farcical characters and units, to then the 'Grimdark' flavour that one usually associates with adolescents who are too afraid to look childish, so they try to be as nasty as possible, thinking that's what being adult is. The models all turned into scowling, gurning action figures with bulging biceps and axes it would take a crane to lift. GW's obsession with having a monopoly and crushing all alternative systems led them to give the Warhammer World such a strong and unique flavour, they crammed ever more sigils and totems on the models, without ever wondering if it actually improved them. My suspension of disbelief was snapped then and I found myself outside of the bubble.

The horrible treatment of the Skaven possibly sums this one up. At first they were a brilliant addition to the Old World beastiary, swarming out of sewers and overwhelming humans who towered over them, by sheer weight of numbers. They were manky little ninjas who used stealth and surprise to infiltrate. Then the models got bigger ... and bigger ... and then they had rat ogres ... and jezzails ... okay, a little flavour, that I can live with ... then the wheel of doom thingy, then a gigantic 20-tonne bronze bell that somehow is wheeled about (perfect for sneaking) ... and their Chaos God incarnate ... and then they have become just another maxed-out with special rules army that has lost what was most appealing about it in the beginning.

Did I grow up? Well, if you ask my wife ..... but probably a little. Yet GW also grew down and became slightly puerile. The Oldhammer stuff remains as attractive to me as ever, because I enjoy what it is in itself, not just the memories it stirs in me.

SUMMARY FOR GRANT: (http://www.jimchines.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/We-Fear-Change.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 06, 2015, 01:45:06 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 06, 2015, 05:24:11 AM
There was a time when the guys running GW were just gamers - now that probably made for a terrible business, but the atmosphere was much less "feed the machine!".

"Feed the machine!" is an excellent way of encapsulating the spirit of contemporary GW. I'll have to remember that phrase.

Quote from: Vermis on December 06, 2015, 12:33:31 PM
Well, like I say, I wasn't there for most of it. lol I think my GW/wargaming hobby started at an awkward juncture. I was into model kits when I was younger (I was never not a nerd...) and liked the idea of fighting battles with them. There was also a bit of that 'run by nerds' feeling left, mostly 'Fat Bloke' White Dwarf, which I agree was a good thing.
But it was about the turn of the millenium, when I was already in my late teens - to quote a wise old master, maybe 'too old to begin the training'. It also wouldn't be too long before GW released more considered, balanced games like LotR and the last gasp of the SGs, which only served to highlight the deficiencies of 3rd ed 40K and 6th ed WFB. Or at least that they weren't suited to me, and vice versa. (I have more nostalgia for Epic:A's short run than for 40K and FB combined) I guess it was also about the time that the internet really got going with wargaming communities, and publicising other wargames.
And then it wouldn't be much longer before GW started doubling down on their mercenary image: releasing the infamous 'giant issue' of White Dwarf, cutting off the SGs, etc. That put paid to GW for me.
Trouble was, like I said earlier, I was already hooked on their settings to game in. GW just makes them harder and harder to game in.

In large parts, this mirrors my early days as a GW fan. I may have started and quit a bit earlier than you, but probably just a bit.

Seriously, I often wish I'd have properly discovered GW (and the miniature wargaming hobby as a whole) in the mid 90s aged 12 (or even the early 90s aged 10) instead of the late 90s aged 15-16. So many other people were into wargaming at age 12 or younger, at a time when GW was relatively speaking much more innocent (80s or early-to-mid 90s), and it feels to me like they have something I don't get to have. In concrete terms, I didn't "get to" experience pre-5th edition WHFB or pre-3rd edition 40K.

Still, I have my small share of nostalgia for late 90s GW and I'm not letting go of it (even if I did take a wrong turn and become a blind-by-faith GW fanboi for a while).

My nostalgia is best encapsulated by the cover artwork of the first issue of White Dwarf I bought:

http://www.geofftaylor-artist.com/galleries/games-workshop/art/white-dwarf-236-eldar (http://www.geofftaylor-artist.com/galleries/games-workshop/art/white-dwarf-236-eldar)

(EDIT: I forgot, GW lawyers don't like us linking to WD pictures. I've removed the image and just linked to the relevant page of the artist's website. Sorry!)

I know it dates from later than the era which many other hobbyists define as the golden age of GW, and honestly I do agree that the golden age was over by the time I discovered the GW games, but as I said, I need to hold on to what nostalgia I can.

Quote from: Cubs on December 06, 2015, 01:15:28 PM
Lots of insightful stuff

You put it better than I. Very well written! :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on December 06, 2015, 03:44:51 PM
Games Workshop made the news a few days ago (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/04/sysadmins_100000_revenge_after_sudden_sacking/), although not really "new" news...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 06, 2015, 03:59:06 PM
Quote from: rebelyell2006 on December 06, 2015, 03:44:51 PM
Games Workshop made the news a few days ago (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/04/sysadmins_100000_revenge_after_sudden_sacking/), although not really "new" news...


That is hilarious. What a great ending! GW truly are stupid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on December 06, 2015, 04:03:36 PM
Now wait... There were no names. It could have been any very well known company supplying fantasy wargaming products with a warehouse in Nottingham, right?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 06, 2015, 04:51:11 PM
Love it. Nice when people try to shaft someone, only to find they've shafted themselves.

Let me tell you, I've done that more than once at disappointing parties.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 06, 2015, 04:51:31 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 06, 2015, 05:24:11 AM
I wholeheartedly agree that the Oldhammer attraction is nostalgia (and not a little charm).  I've always said that I liked GW back when it was broke and run by nerds...before they hired proper business folk to attend to the business.  Remember when White Dwarf showed you how to make a Land Raider from WW1 tank kits, because it wasn't available from GW?  There was a time when the guys running GW were just gamers - now that probably made for a terrible business, but the atmosphere was much less "feed the machine!".

In that context, I think this quote from the second edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle is revealing:

"Although Warhammer has been designed around standard 25-30mm high metal models there is no reason why players shouldn't use any of the currently available plastic 54mm models instead. Citadel plan to release a comprehensive range of plastic models in 60mm, compatible with and suitably heroic looking when placed alongside models from Britains, Matchbox, Airfix, etc."

Add that sort of sentiment to the proliferation of non-Citadel miniatures in the armies shown in Warhammer publications (the siege poster with Minifigs orcs, Bryan Ansell's chaos army, etc) and you can see a glimpse of a very different future for the company - one in which it remained "open", but simply competed (and dominated) on quality.

I wonder what would have happened if GW had continued to take an "open" approach while continuing to improve the quality of its models - and, crucially, keeping plenty of generic models in its range. What the company is doing now is moving further and further away from the generic. That worked in 40K, where the background was sufficiently strong to dominate SF tabletop gaming (and also where the many of the models are still somewhat generic - soldiers in power armour, robots, aliens). But in fantasy, it strikes me that the further the company goes from the old "pathetic aesthetic" that it used to embrace, the more it stakes on the popularity of an entirely unknown quality - the enduring popularity of the AoS aesthetic. To put it another way, the blogosphere is full of pictures of people using GW goblins and dwarfs and beastmen in other games, from SBH to KoW. But the application of winged angel/terminator/centurions to generic games is likely to be limited.

Another point: when I was only a little older than my son is now, I'd spend much of my pocket money in Edinburgh's Games Master store, where you could pick up a Citadel night goblin for 45p - or a cold-one rider for £1.25. The numbers need to be adjusted for inflation, of course, but the "entry barrier" to fantasy gaming was extremely low. My primary school was full of kids with cold ones or skeletons in their pockets, and the early years of secondary school were very similar. The appeal of Citadel miniatures was widespread, and they were in hobby and toy shops everywhere. The first miniatures I bought - a night goblin, a Fantasy Tribes orc and a fighter - were from Edinburgh's venerable department store Jenners, where I'd gone to spend some saved-up pocket money on a Star Wars figure. In contrast, if my kids petition me to take them into Games Workshop today to look around, there's nothing that they can afford to buy - even with some slight parental indulgence. The "impulse purchase" for kids with a proclivity for goblins and trolls is entirely absent - as is the ubiquity.

The obvious thing, it seems to me, is for GW to come up with a simple but good skirmish game that requires only  four or five figures a side. They already have a few small boxes of figures, but no obvious rules or role for them. What, though, if you could use your five skeletons or three chaos marines, or whatever, in simple but engrossing game? Free rules, perhaps - a two-page insert or handout - and profiles for the miniatures in the box. Add in (on the website, with links on the boxes) child-friendly instructions on improvising scenery - books for stepped hills, Lego walls and hedges, yoghurt-pot buildings - and on making more permanent items. Give instructions for using toy dragons and dinosaurs in games - and for painting them up and basing them. Sell accompanying bundles of paints - so that for a box of five skeletons, you might get brown, bone, white, black and a metallic.

Also, don't differentiate between sci-fi and fantasy - so that if your friends fancy space marines, they can fight orcs as well as orks. It's easy enough to balance out rules so that primitives can compete with high-tech opponents. Make the game suitable for multiple players, so that kids can play at school lunchtimes (it's easy enough to smuggle four or five miniatures in anywhere ...).

All of that would provide a sharp hook. And then GW could use it as the gateway to games with more complex rules and the potential for much larger forces (and bigger models).

As it is, the parent who walks in with his kids is generally left shaking his head at the price tags and the complexity of it all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 06, 2015, 07:29:43 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 06, 2015, 01:45:06 PM
So many other people were into wargaming at age 12 or younger, at a time when GW was relatively speaking much more innocent (80s or early-to-mid 90s), and it feels to me like they have something I don't get to have. In concrete terms, I didn't "get to" experience pre-5th edition WHFB or pre-3rd edition 40K.

I get what you mean, especially after Cubs' post.

Ta Cubs. :) Food for thought. I already know I'm being too harsh about older minis. I've enjoyed watching Hobgoblin's painting log, and I'm not averse to a browse of Stuff of Legends or the Lost Minis Wiki, etc. etc. I almost tried getting a few chaos warriors off ebay to get in on the Oldhammer craze, too.

Given what you say about the direction of GW's aesthetic, I wonder if I'm picking on one period rather than Citadel's entire history. What I saw as 'old models' when I joined. On that note, fair to say that plastic chaos marauders and catachans are the poster boys of the trend you mean?

I've seen the same thing, I think, especially with your example of skaven. I like skaven (maybe because this (http://www.tradera.com/item/341005/247068642/white-dwarf-260-augusti) was the second WD I bought*) and I think their current basic minis are some of the best yet. Stylised and cartoony, but in the right way, to my eyes. I have loads here that I should start painting up for some non-Warhammer gaming. (Though, it has to be said, along with a few older bits like the arquebus guy, here (http://www.solegends.com/citcat19894winter/cat89wint011x-01.htm). ;) )

But I agree that most of their appeal is as sneaky, half-mythical creatures striking from the shadows. The doomwheel was actually OOP when I started Warhammer, but I don't think I could stretch to that, or the new version. I liked the idea of big rat monsters in a WD Clan Moulder list; but when they arrived in the main army as the hell pit abomination, on top of everything else, I thought skaven had gone just a little too goofy.

And like you say, that seems to be how it went with everything, once GW upgraded their plastic production. Improvements in 'basic' infantry and cav, but everything else went bigger and more over the top. Every army had to have at least one goofy huge monster, and at least one goofy huge war machine, and ogre-sized monsters, and 'monstrous cavalry'. Empire demigryph knights stick out in my mind, for that one. Part of me thinks 'well, why not?', but I also think that in trying to give every army something special, GW was making every army more samey, and less special.

And then, AoS.

(I still think there can be a little too much nostalgia in Oldhammer, though. The point that made me think that was one too many blog posts hyping Kev Adams sculpts that were... not pleasing.)

* While I did a google for that pic, I stumbled across this (http://lynca-shatu.deviantart.com/art/Rhikit-Skaven-Clanrat-503185225). It freaks me out more than any number of fangy snarls, spiky rat ogres, or glowy green gubbins. That's what you should glimpse on a dark Geheimnisnacht, only for it to disappear when you double-take. ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 06, 2015, 07:41:32 PM
Quote
Citadel plan to release a comprehensive range of plastic models in 60mm, compatible with and suitably heroic looking when placed alongside models from Britains, Matchbox, Airfix, etc."

Add that sort of sentiment to the proliferation of non-Citadel miniatures in the armies shown in Warhammer publications (the siege poster with Minifigs orcs, Bryan Ansell's chaos army, etc) and you can see a glimpse of a very different future for the company - one in which it remained "open", but simply competed (and dominated) on quality.

Seems to be a few of those old gamer-friendly plans that fell by the wayside.

Also, agreed that GW could easily compete on mini quality, combined with their plastic production capacity, churning out generic designs. I can understand the desire to make their designs and aesthetics exclusive to their game, but even that could be added to some of the mind-boggling decisions they actually made.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 06, 2015, 08:06:16 PM
Quote from: Vermis on December 06, 2015, 07:41:32 PM
Seems to be a few of those old gamer-friendly plans that fell by the wayside.


Actually, that particular plan didn't quite fall by the wayside. They did produce a range of 60mm figures (http://solegends.com/citfightfant/index.htm), although they were far too big (as I remember it) to fit in with 54mm Airfix soldiers. I used to use one of the orcs as a giant for my orcish warhammer army, and also as a balrog (I painted his cloak to look like a sheet of fire). That was widespread practice for a while, I think. The third edition of Warhammer has photos of one of the plastic ogres being used as a giant (he looks pretty good).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 06, 2015, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 06, 2015, 05:24:11 AM
I wholeheartedly agree that the Oldhammer attraction is nostalgia (and not a little charm).  I've always said that I liked GW back when it was broke and run by nerds...before they hired proper business folk to attend to the business.  Remember when White Dwarf showed you how to make a Land Raider from WW1 tank kits, because it wasn't available from GW?  There was a time when the guys running GW were just gamers - now that probably made for a terrible business, but the atmosphere was much less "feed the machine!".

Now, the info I'm about to drop is no less than 10 years old, but when my buddy was managing a GW retail store in the very early 2000's the sales policies were aimed at first-time buyers.  The managers were told that the whole goal was to get mom/dad to buy their child $200+/- of stuff in the first big purchase.  Subsequent purchases were not as important in the business strategy at that time.  They didn't care too much about the occasional gamer picking up a single box or a paint brush or paint now and then.  Of course this strategy was laid out to the managers in their yearly conferences.

Now, since then...GW shut down the majority of its retail locations and is only now opening up new ones.  I'm sure business practices have changed in 10+ years time.

Regarding the specialist stuff, I always thought these were far superior to the build-armies games.  They were about $60 at the time, offered a complete game in a box, and in general were definitely more deep.  I thought they were easily GW's best products.  I have no idea what sales were like - but all of my gaming group had warbands and copies of Necromunda, Mordheim, etc.  They were definitely plenty popular.  I know Epic never sold too well, and the old Man o' War wasn't too successful.  I think for a retail store though it was a good idea to have these "one stop boxes" for the purchasers looking to get their kid into something but unable/unwilling to buy $200+ worth of stuff to get started.

I think they had some seriously quality titles available via their Historicals side...but that's another subject entirely.
Ah shampoo spaceship good times.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 06, 2015, 11:41:17 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 06, 2015, 01:15:28 PM
The horrible treatment of the Skaven possibly sums this one up. At first they were a brilliant addition to the Old World beastiary, swarming out of sewers and overwhelming humans who towered over them, by sheer weight of numbers. They were manky little ninjas who used stealth and surprise to infiltrate. Then the models got bigger ... and bigger ... and then they had rat ogres ... and jezzails ... okay, a little flavour, that I can live with ... then the wheel of doom thingy, then a gigantic 20-tonne bronze bell that somehow is wheeled about (perfect for sneaking) ... and their Chaos God incarnate ... and then they have become just another maxed-out with special rules army that has lost what was most appealing about it in the beginning.

I agree and disagree here... I remember seeing Andy Chambers' original Skaven army, later accompanied by a scratch-built screaming bell, looong ago. So whilst the original range and fluff perhaps didn't include such items, they did get included quite early on in the race's development.

On the other hand, the Doomwheel was silly, and I think in a good way. In fact, it was one of the models that was cut after 5th edition because it was silly. It was replaced with the Warp Lightning Cannon, and although I liked the cannon too, I always felt that something fun and zany had been lost from the army.

At the other end of the scale were Plague Catapults, steampunk Rat Ogres with gun nipples, and the Hellpit Abomination; rather than fun/zany/silly, these just felt powergamey and unimaginative to me. Worse, they are very hard to proxy with totally different models/designs in a suitably satisfactory way, and to some extent are unfortunately somewhat required as part of a balanced army post-7th Edition. To me, this highlights the sharp business practice of "required" models before "fun games" starkly - a typical customer trap that many are now really sick of.

I actually hope that a rumoured Mordheim re-release will include a nice sprue of Clan Eshin rats in the Seb Perbet style that will finally look like I always imaged them to. That way, even if the re-released game is shit, I still get some nice models that match my collection and let me play older editions with. :)

On the subject of nostalgia, I leave you with this (taken from Realm Of Chaos 80s blog):

Quote
RoC80s: Looking back, what are your views about the early editions of Warhammer (1-3), Rogue Trader and WFRP compared to the more recent editions?

Andy Chambers: Nostalgia aside the more modern versions are superior products in pretty much every regard. I don't know WFRP very well but that's been well received in the new version by the players I do know.

And yet.

You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on December 07, 2015, 05:36:44 AM
Quote from: nic-e on December 05, 2015, 06:44:28 PM
I am not ashamed to say i would buy that...



I'm all for skyships but if GW was to make one, with their pricing I'd probably be cheaper off having someone design and 3D-print a custom one for me.
They do seem to make some kind of sky.. boat for their High Elves or Aelfes or whatever they're called now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: richstrach on December 07, 2015, 07:53:25 AM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 06, 2015, 04:51:31 PM

Another point: when I was only a little older than my son is now, I'd spend much of my pocket money in Edinburgh's Games Master store, where you could pick up a Citadel night goblin for 45p - or a cold-one rider for £1.25. 


I wonder if we're of the same vintage? Do you remember Mac's Models down the bottom of the Canongate (the original location?) That's where all my Citadel stuff came from before GW opened on the High Street, and I remember it being a pocket-money hobby.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 07, 2015, 08:30:21 AM
Quote from: richstrach on December 07, 2015, 07:53:25 AM
I wonder if we're of the same vintage? Do you remember Mac's Models down the bottom of the Canongate (the original location?) That's where all my Citadel stuff came from before GW opened on the High Street, and I remember it being a pocket-money hobby.

Yes, indeed! I used to paint for the shop's miniature-painting service! Many moons ago ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 07, 2015, 09:38:27 AM
Quote from: Vermis on December 06, 2015, 07:29:43 PM

I still think there can be a little too much nostalgia in Oldhammer, though. The point that made me think that was one too many blog posts hyping Kev Adams sculpts that were... not pleasing.

Yeah, there is plenty of evolution between then and now. I think one area of improvement that can't be argued with is cast quality and finishing. Certainly the models look pretty rough compared to new ones - miscasts and horrible lumps of spare metal were accepted back then as par for the course, as were some pretty average sculpts on occasion. Nick Lund, for example, has such a distinctive style and sculpted some of my all time favourites. But oddly enough, overall I don't really like his sculpting style! Seems odd to say that, but there we go.

The Perry twins aside perhaps, a lot of the sculptors were able to produce wonderful miniatures that people still coo over, but also they could churn out some mins that ... well, let's say divided opinion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 07, 2015, 12:53:49 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 07, 2015, 09:38:27 AM
Yeah, there is plenty of evolution between then and now. I think one area of improvement that can't be argued with is cast quality and finishing. Certainly the models look pretty rough compared to new ones - miscasts and horrible lumps of spare metal were accepted back then as par for the course, as were some pretty average sculpts on occasion. Nick Lund, for example, has such a distinctive style and sculpted some of my all time favourites. But oddly enough, overall I don't really like his sculpting style! Seems odd to say that, but there we go.

The Perry twins aside perhaps, a lot of the sculptors were able to produce wonderful miniatures that people still coo over, but also they could churn out some mins that ... well, let's say divided opinion.

That's all very true. I think Nick Lund is probably the most variable - and the quality of his stuff seemed to go up and down. Some of the early ogres are brilliant, as are many of the slotta-based hobgoblins. The Ugezod boxed set is probably the peak. But the later Grenadier stuff isn't so hot. Then again, some of his earlier, cruder stuff is just magnificent - the pointing, masked solid-based hobgoblin shaman, or the Chronicle wolfriders. Those miniatures are primitive, but they transcend the crudeness through overall visual impact.

On the other hand, I think a lot of the earlier stuff benefited from a "necessity is the mother of invention" situation. Precisely because there were limitations in what could be done with solid-based metal figures, there was often a lot of great, subtle invention. Aly Morrison's solid-based hobgoblins, for example, often have quite subtle standing poses that surpass the later, more dynamic slotta-based ones. And there's a huge amount of invention in Jez Goodwin's Asgard orcs - low, slinking, almost flat-to-the ground poses. Tom Meier did similar things with some of his Ral Partha orcs and was really inventive with poses for his lizardmen and troglodytes - I don't think anyone has produced more convincing reptilian humanoids since. When first slotta bases and then plastics came in, anything was possible and poses became less inventive and more cartoony. There are analogies with cinematic special effects; think of all that unconvincing CGI ...

And the same applies to detail. Less is often more. The current Citadel lizardmen are really annoying to paint, I find, because of all their fiddly accoutrements. The Meier and Trish Morrison ones are much more satisfying in this regard; there is detail, but it's not excessive (the odd bone gewgaw or rune-etched shield, rather than endless spike-caps and tassels and ribbons and whatnot).

Here's an irony. When plastic shields and weapons came in, Citadel made some excited noises about "realistic thickness". But then they went down the path that led to the Sigmarine hammers (with even worse along the way). This is what a warhammer looks like:

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 07, 2015, 01:02:26 PM
I should say that GW aren't necessarily the worst offenders with regard to oversized weapons. Mantic are pretty bad - those trolls! - and Reaper can be shocking. But it hurts all the more with GW because they used to be so good at "fantastic realism".  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 07, 2015, 02:31:47 PM
All true.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: richstrach on December 07, 2015, 03:10:26 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 07, 2015, 08:30:21 AM
Yes, indeed! I used to paint for the shop's miniature-painting service! Many moons ago ...

Those were the days! I still remember my dad taking me along to Mac's Models on my 12th birthday to buy the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay rulebook... [puffs nostalgically on pipe]
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 07, 2015, 04:21:03 PM
The new Chaos Knight models are so packed full of junk. It's like they looked at Pathfinder Paizo character art and said: "I want that in my Warhammer!"

This picture summarises my opinion quite succinctly:

(http://i.imgur.com/mqkvjrq.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 07, 2015, 05:11:38 PM
The thing for me is that I don't dislike "over-the-top" fantasy as such (nor do I dislike subtle, nuanced, down-to-earth fantasy or "fantastical realism" - they're just two themes of different qualities but equal value), but there's a right way to do OTT and there's a wrong way. GW is mostly getting it all wrong. Some good examples of OTT done right would be Warbears & Stagriders (especially this one), Celtos and many of the boutique games such as Alkemy. Unlike AoS they don't overwhelm the senses in a bad way.

The funny thing is that, notwithstanding the fact that GW literally destroyed the Warhammer world, I don't actually hate the idea of "multi-planar" wars between celestial, daemonic and other transcendental/elemental/demigod-like hosts fought over numerous hyper-magical realms. I even considered taking up a project like that a few years ago when I was re-reading some Moorcock stories and looking over my old Magic the Gathering cards (a game I picked up and quickly dropped again around age 12-13 - to those who don't know, the MtG setting is very much one of "multiplanar fantasy" and I suspect GW drew some inspiration from it when designing the AoS setting).

I don't even hate the look of the basic Sigmarine troopers - but that sentiment only extends to the basic troopers, which if I were to use them in my own projects would count as anything but "basic" or "troopers". Most or all of the other AoS figures are just way too much, like those "Varanguard" (bleh again - those names are just plain awful).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 07, 2015, 06:58:39 PM
How can you hate the name Varanguard... Its Vanguard but with more RA!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 07, 2015, 07:01:34 PM
No, it's Varangian Guard but with less GIAN! ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 07, 2015, 07:32:06 PM
I just feel like it's bad painful to live in such a spiky world.

"Let me put on my boot...ow!  Spikes!"

"Let me just grab my cap...OUCH!"

"Well, time to saddle up-OUCH!!!"

"Let's grab my axe and shi-DAMMIT!"

"At least my cape doesn't have an-GOODDDDD DAMMIT!"

Look at the Varanguard and imagine them riding in any kind of close proximity?  They'd impale each other.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 07, 2015, 07:48:30 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 07, 2015, 07:32:06 PM
I just feel like it's bad painful to live in such a spiky world.

"Let me put on my boot...ow!  Spikes!"

"Let me just grab my cap...OUCH!"

"Well, time to saddle up-OUCH!!!"

"Let's grab my axe and shi-DAMMIT!"

"At least my cape doesn't have an-GOODDDDD DAMMIT!"

Look at the Varanguard and imagine them riding in any kind of close proximity?  They'd impale each other.  lol



All points very well made, however, do consider that if impaled, you need less mounts per unit, and therefore slightly cheaper? Maybe a special GW  10% discount per pack of three if you only have one mount?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 07, 2015, 08:17:31 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 07, 2015, 05:11:38 PM
The funny thing is that, notwithstanding the fact that GW literally destroyed the Warhammer world, I don't actually hate the idea of "multi-planar" wars between celestial, daemonic and other transcendental/elemental/demigod-like hosts fought over numerous hyper-magical realms. I even considered taking up a project like that a few years ago when I was re-reading some Moorcock stories and looking over my old Magic the Gathering cards (a game I picked up and quickly dropped again around age 12-13 - to those who don't know, the MtG setting is very much one of "multiplanar fantasy" and I suspect GW drew some inspiration from it when designing the AoS setting).

I'd love it too.

... If it wasn't GW trying it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 07, 2015, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: nullBolt on December 07, 2015, 04:21:03 PM
The new Chaos Knight models are so packed full of junk. It's like they looked at Pathfinder Paizo character art and said: "I want that in my Warhammer!"

Once again I have to agree with Rhoderic. :D I take it you mean the kind of stuff by Wayne Reynolds? I'm quite fond of his art, meself, even if I have no idea where he comes up with half the bric-a-brac hanging from his characters. It sorta feels right. But on these varanguard it's more like a confusing jumble. To me it looks like every little bit of trim, every detail, every highlight, painted in a contrasting colour, doesn't make the mini pop, so much as hide it. Pretty effective camouflage, breaking up their shapes.

Quote
I don't even hate the look of the basic Sigmarine troopers - but that sentiment only extends to the basic troopers, which if I were to use them in my own projects would count as anything but "basic" or "troopers".

I'm actually wondering if I could scrape off some lightning bolts and spikes, paint a couple silver, and use them as some kind of elf construct.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 07, 2015, 11:30:53 PM
^That's one big issue for me with the current AoS stuff I've seen...it's so busy you can't even tell what you're looking at.  I've clicked on a couple of AoS battle reports and from what I could tell some spikes and chains had a fight with some scrolls and wings?  As you said, it's a camouflage of details.

I guess I don't truly understand the change from this:
(https://garrapitopinturil.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/img_20150309_211808.jpg?w=800&h=800&crop=1)

to this:
(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Knight-1.jpg)

You can make something look Chaos and "bad"...without rotating the knob to 11, then breaking the knob off and throwing it out the window...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 07, 2015, 11:35:01 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 07, 2015, 07:32:06 PM
I just feel like it's bad painful to live in such a spiky world.

"Let me put on my boot...ow!  Spikes!"

"Let me just grab my cap...OUCH!"

"Well, time to saddle up-OUCH!!!"

"Let's grab my axe and shi-DAMMIT!"

"At least my cape doesn't have an-GOODDDDD DAMMIT!"

"A spiky world" lol


Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 07, 2015, 07:48:30 PM
All points very well made, however, do consider that if impaled, you need less mounts per unit, and therefore slightly cheaper? Maybe a special GW  10% discount per pack of three if you only have one mount?

Two knights dangling from the sides of the mount, fixed in place by spikes as they hack and slash opportunistically at any enemy that comes near like a pair of demented killer sponsons? I like it! :D

But let me up the ante: What if the mounts were all fixed to each other by spikes? One big amalgamated monster steamrolling over all opposition! Maneuverability would be tricky, but I'm sure that wouldn't bother GW rules designers. In homage to GW naming practices, I shall name it... a brawnmower!


Quote from: Vermis on December 07, 2015, 09:15:16 PM
Once again I have to agree with Rhoderic. :D

Maybe I'm the one who's confused, but you were quoting nullBolt there, not me.


Quote from: Vermis on December 07, 2015, 09:15:16 PM
But on these varanguard it's more like a confusing jumble. To me it looks like every little bit of trim, every detail, every highlight, painted in a contrasting colour, doesn't make the mini pop, so much as hide it. Pretty effective camouflage, breaking up their shapes.

Yes, precisely! The excessive, anything-but-sublime detail breaks up shapes and renders the figures difficult to make out.

In contrast, this is what I think of as "over-the-top done right":

(http://www.gamewire.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/bear-black-1.jpg)

The theme is clearly over the top (not necessarily in a bad way), but there's none of that jumbled effect that makes the figure difficult on the eyes. This figure is pleasing to look at, unlike the Caravan Guard... err, I mean Varangian Vanguard... whatever!

Another issue is relatability. The AoS starter comes with a hero riding some sort of monster that doesn't really look distinguishable as any specific "species" of mythical creature. Meanwhile there's nothing strikingly unique or inventive about it; it just looks like some aimless amalgam of the concepts of "dragon", "gryphon", "hippogriff", "basilisk", etc. Combined with all the esoteric and baroque knickknacks stuck to the creature and the rider, the overall effect for me is that the figure does not feel relatable. My mind doesn't even want to bother processing it. I feel like I need some sort of primer on the specifics of AoS esoterism before I can relate to it. By contrast, that bear rider has the virtue of being far more relatable. It "clicks" in my mind as soon as I see it. I know which figure I'd immediately gravitate to if the two were placed next to each other on the shelf of some miniature wargaming shop.

Quote from: Elbows on December 07, 2015, 11:30:53 PM
I've clicked on a couple of AoS battle reports and from what I could tell some spikes and chains had a fight with some scrolls and wings?

 lol This thread! I love this thread! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 08, 2015, 12:00:47 AM
Quote from: Vermis on December 07, 2015, 09:15:16 PM
Once again I have to agree with Rhoderic. :D I take it you mean the kind of stuff by Wayne Reynolds? I'm quite fond of his art, meself, even if I have no idea where he comes up with half the bric-a-brac hanging from his characters. It sorta feels right.

It works just because that's how actual player characters dress. Covered in a layer of random items that they think they're going to need
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 08, 2015, 12:19:30 AM
Quote from: Vermis on December 07, 2015, 09:15:16 PM
I'm actually wondering if I could scrape off some lightning bolts and spikes, paint a couple silver, and use them as some kind of elf construct.

We are not too far apart in our thinking.....
 :D

(Although I want to use them in a 40mm world, so they would not be so large in comparison to a 'standard' human).


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 08, 2015, 02:26:46 AM
Quote from: Elbows on December 07, 2015, 11:30:53 PM
(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Knight-1.jpg)

There's something about that, that looks familiar to me... Oh yeah!

(http://www.tazziepets.co.uk/images/drontal-plus-bone-dog-wormer.jpg)
http://www.tazziepets.co.uk/drontal-flavour-bone-dog-wormer

"Does your bestial spiky carnivorous demon-horse suffer from intestinal infestations?"

Quote
You can make something look Chaos and "bad"...without rotating the knob to 11, then breaking the knob off and throwing it out the window...

Right! The first one looks like some sinister, foreboding man of the north. The best description of the second might be, well...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dG3_Z_Gcu2E

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 07, 2015, 11:35:01 PM
Maybe I'm the one who's confused, but you were quoting nullBolt there, not me.

No, I was agreeing there were different ways of doing over-the-top, e.g. Piazo vs. GW. :)

Quote
Another issue is relatability. The AoS starter comes with a hero riding some sort of monster that doesn't really look distinguishable as any specific "species" of mythical creature. Meanwhile there's nothing strikingly unique or inventive about it; it just looks like some aimless amalgam of the concepts of "dragon", "gryphon", "hippogriff", "basilisk", etc. Combined with all the esoteric and baroque knickknacks stuck to the creature and the rider, the overall effect for me is that the figure does not feel relatable. My mind doesn't even want to bother processing it. I feel like I need some sort of primer on the specifics of AoS esoterism before I can relate to it. By contrast, that bear rider has the virtue of being far more relatable. It "clicks" in my mind as soon as I see it. I know which figure I'd immediately gravitate to if the two were placed next to each other on the shelf of some miniature wargaming shop.

I get you. I think the dracoth looks interesting, but there's no immediate context to it. It's a big, fangy snarly thing for the sake of a big, fangy, snarly thing.

Nullbolt: wot, no bags of holding? No henchmen? (http://comic.nodwick.com)

Mason: nice. 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 10:20:49 AM
Quote from: Elbows on December 07, 2015, 11:30:53 PM
^That's one big issue for me with the current AoS stuff I've seen...it's so busy you can't even tell what you're looking at.  I've clicked on a couple of AoS battle reports and from what I could tell some spikes and chains had a fight with some scrolls and wings?  As you said, it's a camouflage of details.

I guess I don't truly understand the change from this:
(https://garrapitopinturil.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/img_20150309_211808.jpg?w=800&h=800&crop=1)

to this:
(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Knight-1.jpg)

You can make something look Chaos and "bad"...without rotating the knob to 11, then breaking the knob off and throwing it out the window...

They used to do it so well. The old Warrior Knights of Chaos box set is brilliant - bizarre and appropriately Moorcockian, yet convincing and plausible. And, more importantly, chaotic. Why shouldn't a warrior of chaos use a bow? Or be a woman? Or be left-handed?


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on December 08, 2015, 11:52:44 AM
I don't mind the multi-planar aspect of AoS, but it didn't have to involved destroying the warhammer world. They could have just extended the playing field, and had a Sigmarines Vs Chaos in some other dimension to rescue the mortal world, whilst creatures from said mortal world occasionally slipped into the multi-planar realms and inhabited them.

All the while life on the Warhammer world is shifted dramatically after 'End Times' with everything smacked to crap and on fire, plenty of opportunity to bring new factions to the game and reorganize the power dynamics between factions, without having to wipe it all.

Biggest problem I have with fantasy overall, especially for 28mm 'mass battles', and not just GW (although they are definitely at the spearheading one trend) is the lack of a 'greyzone', between OTT Fantasy of admittedly high quality, like GW but with a tendency to have everything so Over the top, it just becomes the new norm, with other companies, such as Mantic producing big units of bog-standard troopers (that should in my mind, make up the backbone of any force) but of fairly mediocre quality.

I can understand why people are turning more and more to historic plastic figures to build Human armies, as they at least provide numbers of troops, from various cultures that fulfill certain roles (heavy cav, light cav, archers, knights etc etc) and use occasional fantasy figs that are OTT to act as leaders or special units. GW used to do that but with fantasy; you could buy a bunch of regiments of Goblins or Orcs with spears or whatever to act as your rank and file. The Empire troops before the 'latest' iteration of 'Empire, bar some exceptions were simply the best rank and file troops GW ever made, better than all these bow legged muppets they had during 8th.

Also notice since destroying the Warhammer World on the tabletop, the sudden emergence of PC GAMES encompassing the Warhammer world: Man-O-War, Total War Warhammer, Mordheim, Vermintide etc. You'd think after making so many games in such a short period of time that may well urge more people to visit GW and maybe buy into that side of warhammer. Well not anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on December 08, 2015, 01:25:56 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 10:20:49 AM
They used to do it so well. The old Warrior Knights of Chaos box set is brilliant - bizarre and appropriately Moorcockian, yet convincing and plausible. And, more importantly, chaotic. Why shouldn't a warrior of chaos use a bow? Or be a woman? Or be left-handed?




Duh, dont you know 'more spikes = more chaos'????  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 08, 2015, 02:02:07 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 10:20:49 AM
Why shouldn't a warrior of chaos... be left-handed?

That's just going too far.


 ;)

Quote from: Brummie on December 08, 2015, 11:52:44 AM
Biggest problem I have with fantasy overall, especially for 28mm 'mass battles', and not just GW (although they are definitely at the spearheading one trend) is the lack of a 'greyzone', between OTT Fantasy of admittedly high quality, like GW but with a tendency to have everything so Over the top, it just becomes the new norm, with other companies, such as Mantic producing big units of bog-standard troopers (that should in my mind, make up the backbone of any force) but of fairly mediocre quality.

I know just what you mean, but with one proviso: I think a lot (not all) of GW's basic infantry wasn't too OTT - that was reserved for some special infantry and... everything else - but developed into pretty nice products. The thing is, they also developed into pretty expensive products. It's £2 for a fairly nicely designed dark elf spearman, or 75p for... a Mantic elf. :? (Such is my first world problem at the mo)

I agree about GW's OTT becoming the new norm, though. Is that why we have the likes of Mantic and Shieldwolf bringing out GW-style top-heavy green-gorilla orcs with oversized fangy jaws, with accompanying claims that they're 'new' and 'different'?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 08, 2015, 02:15:53 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 10:20:49 AM
Why shouldn't a warrior of chaos [...] be left-handed?

Because it would be too... Sinister?  lol



Quote from: Vermis on December 08, 2015, 02:02:07 PM
Is that why we have the likes of Mantic and Shieldwolf bringing out GW-style top-heavy green-gorilla orcs with oversized fangy jaws, with accompanying claims that they're 'new' and 'different'?

Yes, because they don't believe their customers want something different (and, to be fair, many don't).

So apparently, not only are we not the target audience for GW stuff, we are also not the target audience for much non-GW stuff either!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on December 08, 2015, 05:37:26 PM
Quote from: Vermis on December 08, 2015, 02:02:07 PM
I agree about GW's OTT becoming the new norm, though. Is that why we have the likes of Mantic and Shieldwolf bringing out GW-style top-heavy green-gorilla orcs with oversized fangy jaws, with accompanying claims that they're 'new' and 'different'?

I hate that crap with a burning passion.  >:( I don't even really like the idea of orcs outside of Tolkien anyway, but it would still be nice to get some Elder Scrolls style orcs for a change.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 08, 2015, 05:45:49 PM
I'm going to stir the pot a bit. I'm all for criticising GW, even the miniatures, but I do think there has been much improvement in their miniatures over the years in a number of ranges. We have lost something from the Older Models, and I'd say the word is "character", but it's worth remembering that the fluff, and the visuals of a lot of the old citadel models are exceptionally twee these days. I'm much more of a fan of the oft-maligned Grimdark feel than the 'takes itself less seriously' lark. I must confess, it makes me think of Metal Fans who go on about selling out: "Oh I liked this band when no one had heard of them and they were living in poverty moving from crappy pub gig to crappy pub gig!" GW was better when it sucked and knew it, than when it tried to be much better than it was and failed. Just sayin', but the aspiration is kind of worth applauding.

40k, Rogue Trader, whatever, has always been Grimdark. I've read most of the Rogue Trader bits and pieces (I was a little too young to play it when it was out), and the Universe is pretty dark and gritty anyway. I'm going to illustrate the change, and lack of with Orks, as they're basically my specialist subject. On an Ork Forum I write articles about things people get wrong about them. I'm sad like that. Anyway, Orks haven't changed all that much since Rogue Trader. The "beast" element was always there. If anything, it's been emphasised appropriately. Waaargh The Orks, the primary Ork fluff book from Rogue Trader, is from the Ork perspective. Orks from their own perspective are quite fun, and comedic, even innocent in an odd way. But from the Imperial Perspective they're horrifying. They conquer worlds, force the inhabitants into slavery, and any planet that ends up with Orks on it is going to struggle massively to get rid of them and probably fail in the long run. Skaven are quite the same in tone in the Warhammer Fantasy world.

To some, Orks and Skaven detract from the rest of their fluff. I have no idea why this is. It's as if something really dark has to be sinister, when in fact, anyone who's dealt with a dark event probably has a reasonably depraved sense of humour. Laughing about stuff like that, helps you deal with it. Besides, it's not as if a particular setting has a script of acceptable behaviours that everyone has to run off.

I found 3rd-4th Ed Grimdark 40k as the best few editions, particularly 4th Ed. Things were moving in the right direction, the game was getting tweaked, noticeably, moving in a direction the fans wanted. Then all of a sudden Chambers leaves, and the Codexes descend into blatant ante-upping of obvious cheese. The likes of Mat Ward come in (the moron can't even spell his own name) and write horrendous cheese to promote their position, whilst making the fluff loltastically over the top, and this is where things start to go wrong.

Take the Grey Knights, who were struggling bravely in a futile war with Daemons, constantly trying to stay one step ahead, and banishing daemons to keep the universe, into memetastic, genocidal arseholes who can kill greater daemons with one flick of their index finger. Space Marines have gone from vaguely interesting, to essentially, a complete and total joke.

What is ultimately the problem with GW is their attitude. That's the only thing that is actually costing them. It's their corporate greed, that overemphasises sales stimulus and IP protection, their arrogance which typifies their deaf attitude to their critics and unhappy fans. These are the people who will change to address criticism by coming up with some way of covering the criticism without actually addressing it (fans are unhappy about particular writers? Well now you don't know who is going to write the books! Don't like Finecast Resin? We'll stop calling them Finecast, but only after 4 years of ridiculing anyone who criticised the decision to move to resin! People don't like our rules writing? Well fuck you fans, we're a miniatures company!)

The miniatures are typically somewhat over the top, but I happen to like some of them. I certainly don't often find myself considering Historical Games. But again, most of that is Regimental, and Regimental is madness in 28mm unless you own a Sports Hall or Aeroplane Hangar. I do think that GW are a bit overly keen on "detail porn", and certainly, much of their business practice seems overly reliant on Computers. CAD, Reprographics, Hi-Def Pictures, etc. It's almost as if they think these things are USPs, or that are sufficient that they exonerate GW from the need for more talent. That, ultimately, is why they are failing.

Mantic on the other hand? Sure they're cheaper. You pay for it. Cheap, awful plastic. Horrible restic nonsense, with mould lines in the detail and an overall nasty feel. Stupid release concepts, incomplete starter sets (I thought everyone learned not to do this when Rackham went under?) and a certain level of arrogance and snide GW stabbing, whilst producing some of the worst quality miniatures in the industry, and making a living off essentially being a GW rip off that evidently GW could do sod all about, and people wonder why the Warhammer world exploded.

TLDR: I like Grimdark, I like Orks, and I like GW trying to be epic, but failing, over twee old citadel models, and I dislike Mantic Models. With a passion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 08, 2015, 06:01:45 PM
Well, that's what happens when everything in the background and aesthetic is OTT all the time - you just run out of ways to top it or follow it up in an interesting way, and the stories lose both focus and meaning. It's like writing everything ALLINCAPSALLTHETIMELOLOL! It just hurts.  :?

As for Mantic; yes, it's true that they copy GW and ride their coat tales to drum up business.
However, theirs is a peculiar problem now of wanting to sell huge armies, for huge games, for "cheap". Well, the only sci-fi and fantasy games of note like that (in 28mm no less) are GW's, and so all the potential customers who come to Mantic ask "can I use my existing army"? Mantic say yes, and that leads their path round into a circle.
I personally think that aiming for better models and better quality whilst also reducing the number of models required for their games would really help them, (and allow them to forge their own path) but... They don't seem to want to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 08, 2015, 06:13:39 PM
GW were market leaders for a long time before they got crap, so no, it's not just the 'I liked them before they were successful' thing. It was when they became market overlords they started to become crap. It was by doing all the good stuff they went from just another miniature company, to the leading miniature company, to a monopoly. Along the way they copied a lot of fantasy and sci-fi ideas from other sources, but that's okay, because there's nothing truly original under the sun, every idea comes from somewhere. Unfortunately it's what they did next that was the problem, ironically, this is arguably a direct result of having no real competition.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 08, 2015, 06:47:27 PM
I got some 40 k ork stuff in a job lot and couldn't believe the scale of it,I did wonder if my judgement was clouded by fond memories of rogue trader orks, wish I could get some sensibly priced sci fi orks of similar style.
I did consider taking horns off ungor heads and using Catachan bodies to make orks?
I do like the Wild West orcs that were on kickstarter other day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 06:53:08 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 08, 2015, 06:13:39 PM
GW were market leaders for a long time before they got crap, so no, it's not just the 'I liked them before they were successful' thing. It was when they became market overlords they started to become crap. It was by doing all the good stuff they went from just another miniature company, to the leading miniature company, to a monopoly. Along the way they copied a lot of fantasy and sci-fi ideas from other sources, but that's okay, because there's nothing truly original under the sun, every idea comes from somewhere. Unfortunately it's what they did next that was the problem, ironically, this is arguably a direct result of having no real competition.

This is very true. Citadel were the dominant fantasy miniature company in the UK from at least the time of the Fantasy Tribe ranges. And their products were sold in some rather unlikely places - for a while at least, they had huge exposure. When I bought my orc, night goblin and fighter in the Jenners of the early 80s, no other miniatures company was selling its products in upmarket department stores. I remember seeing the first Warhammer 40K miniatures (including the "space orc" [sic] with the battle-axe gun and the tube in its mouth) in a toy shop in Stockbridge. Harburn Hobbies, a model-railway shop on Leith Walk, stocked Citadel miniatures for a short while at least (it's still going, and I doubt it has ever stocked wargames stuff since). In other words, Citadel had mainstream exposure of a really remarkable sort in the early 80s.

It took me some time to realise that there were other companies doing fantasy miniatures - and for a while, my only exposure to those was through ads and the Tabletop Heroes column in White Dwarf. Although lots of kids at my primary school had Citadel miniatures, I was in secondary before I saw other manufacturers' figures in the "flesh".

And, with the exception of Ral Partha, which they distributed in the UK and pretty much co-opted into their own ranges, Citadel were well ahead on quality right from the start.

As to "tweeness", I don't really see it. The knights of chaos in the image I posted before would fit in plausibly with historical miniatures; most of their equipment is plausible if extravagant. Given any one of them a bunch of Sassanid or Seljuk or Varangian followers from a good historical manufacturer and you'd have a decent fantasy warband. As I type, I'm looking at goblins: some of the plastic ones from a Warhammer boxed set (which are quite good) and some Perry solid-based ones from the 1980s. I like both, but the Perry ones are better for a number of reasons - less cartoonish, more natural-looking posture, more plausible hoods where they have them (those goblins must get through a lot of starch!), less stylised weapons and greater variety. And yes, they have more character, but they're certainly less twee. If you were to size either set up to use as garden gnomes (there's surely nothing more twee!), then you'd go for the plastic ones every time!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 08, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 08, 2015, 06:13:39 PM
GW were market leaders for a long time before they got crap, so no, it's not just the 'I liked them before they were successful' thing. It was when they became market overlords they started to become crap. It was by doing all the good stuff they went from just another miniature company, to the leading miniature company, to a monopoly. Along the way they copied a lot of fantasy and sci-fi ideas from other sources, but that's okay, because there's nothing truly original under the sun, every idea comes from somewhere. Unfortunately it's what they did next that was the problem, ironically, this is arguably a direct result of having no real competition.

Well that goes along with what I was saying about their attitude. It's their attitude that is the problem, and it is disastrously devaluing their product.

Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 06:53:08 PM
As to "tweeness", I don't really see it. The knights of chaos in the image I posted before would fit in plausibly with historical miniatures; most of their equipment is plausible if extravagant. Given any one of them a bunch of Sassanid or Seljuk or Varangian followers from a good historical manufacturer and you'd have a decent fantasy warband. As I type, I'm looking at goblins: some of the plastic ones from a Warhammer boxed set (which are quite good) and some Perry solid-based ones from the 1980s. I like both, but the Perry ones are better for a number of reasons - less cartoonish, more natural-looking posture, more plausible hoods where they have them (those goblins must get through a lot of starch!), less stylised weapons and greater variety. And yes, they have more character, but they're certainly less twee. If you were to size either set up to use as garden gnomes (there's surely nothing more twee!), then you'd go for the plastic ones every time!

Oh come on, you have got to be kidding. Sure, some of it probably isn't twee, but a lot of it is also naff. I personally do not demand realism in my completely fictional fantasy miniatures. A bit of crazy, nonsensical madness does me quite nicely. If we take the LOTR stuff, which isn't Heroic Scale, those things are barely fun to paint. Twee means quaint. It isn't about scale, it's about style. Sure, some of the models are quite iconic, but it's often through sifting over a massive amount of models that look incredibly dated and incredibly generic. There's nothing I've seen, from, say, the 4th Edition WHFB Chaos range that you couldn't easily spot in any B Movie fantasy movie like Hawk the Slayer, Sword of the Sorcerer or Krull. And whilst those images undoubtedly have charm about them, if I had to take say, the modern Lord of the Rings films, 300 or 47 Ronin or the aforementioned films, I wouldn't think about it for long. The older 3 may be guilty pleasures of mine, but I'd rather watch something nuts like 300 over them if I wanted to be entertained for an evening. My attitude is similar when it comes to miniatures.

They look dated. They utterly do. I have a lot of the Rogue Trader Ork models. I love them for their character. But they are twee, and they are dated.

Fitting in with Historical Miniatures also doesn't fit with my benchmark of good. I personally didn't like the models you posted. I'd actually rather have the Varanguard. I'm not saying nobody could like the models you posted up, I'm just saying there is a market for their models, and that's the one thing that wont change quickly. Frankly, I find a lot of Old Hammer models dull. Uninspiring, necessarily generic, because GW hadn't found what their fantasy was about, and so piddled around with all the typical sorts of tropes and visages you find on the cover of any trashy LOTR knock off book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on December 08, 2015, 07:37:10 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 08, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
Fitting in with Historical Miniatures also doesn't fit with my benchmark of good. I personally didn't like the models you posted. I'd actually rather have the Varanguard. I'm not saying nobody could like the models you posted up, I'm just saying there is a market for their models, and that's the one thing that wont change quickly. Frankly, I find a lot of Old Hammer models dull. Uninspiring, necessarily generic, because GW hadn't found what their fantasy was about, and so piddled around with all the typical sorts of tropes and visages you find on the cover of any trashy LOTR knock off book.

I agree with you on Oldhammer, but also really dislike the current stuff. Guess I'm the chaotic neutral in this thread.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 08, 2015, 07:43:22 PM
(http://cdn.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/hnBYoi3-Copy.jpg)

Left.. kinda weird, right... kinda dorky, center... definitely badass...  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 08, 2015, 07:49:37 PM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on December 08, 2015, 07:37:10 PM
I agree with you on Oldhammer, but also really dislike the current stuff. Guess I'm the chaotic neutral in this thread.  :D

Nah, I'm with you. The bulk of the character-ful stuff to me is a bit...meh, but it was the attitude of the company which attracted me to that genre.  I think there is room for a middle-ground.  You can be plenty grimdark (I love the aesthetic it's just way toooo OTT most of the time) without being absurdly over-dramatic/overdone.

Look at Red Box Games...definitely fantastical stuff, character-ful, fits with grim-dark yet isn't completely comical in design.  There is a place for awesome fantasy and sci-fi designs...GW have just missed it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 08, 2015, 08:14:53 PM
Out of curiosity, Dim Reaper, has Mat Ward by any chance secured a restraining order against you? ;)

As for grimdarkitude, to the limited extent that I still care about the official GW game settings, I'm more dispirited by the rising tide of grimdarkness in the WHFB/AoS setting than in the 40K setting. Now, I am aware that the Warhammer world has always had a strong undercurrent of dark fantasy - just look at Mordheim or Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (which I believe has always overtly identified itself as a "dark fantasy RPG"). But still, at some point the grimness and the darkness of WHFB took on a new tone that was far less sublime and far more "to the max!!!". To me, the first hint of that change was the Storm of Chaos campaign, but at any rate it was full-on by the time the End Times were an official concept. AoS has been a continuation of that trend. More than anything, it's the Wagnerian doomsday romanticism that gets to me. Gods, but I hate Wagner and the things his legacy have done to our culture.

I see some of that maxed-out mentality mirrored in contemporary 40K. It's certainly always been grimdark, and by the time I got into 40K the setting had progressed well past the zany Rogue Trader days, but I guess my problem is that grimdarkness, when maxed-out and approached with zero self-distance, feels... pandering. Somewhere along the line, GW lost the touch.

It's like everything GW does these days, it does perfunctorily. The grimdarkness, the aesthetic, the rules (from what I hear). It's as if their sole motivation for doing what they do nowadays is "We're GW, this is what we do". Why the turgid doomsday romanticism? "We're GW". Why the camouflage of detail? "We're GW". Why all the spikes and skulls on every surface? "We're GW".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on December 08, 2015, 08:30:25 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 08, 2015, 07:43:22 PM
(http://cdn.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/hnBYoi3-Copy.jpg)

Left.. kinda weird, right... kinda dorky, center... definitely badass...  :-*

All three are utter shit IMO. But hey, there's no point discussing taste eh ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 08, 2015, 08:43:09 PM
I think there's confusion over what constitutes 'Oldhammer'. Generally it's taken as early 90's and before - kind of 1st, 2nd and 3rd Ed WHFB. I think it's fair to say the majority of Oldhammerers think things peaked at 3rd Ed and those rules are their favourite. Personally I like the really early stuff, 1st and 2nd, but I'm just in it for the models.

You think 4th Ed onwards looks silly? I agree, that was their comical phase - the infamous 'Red Era', which I also disliked. It went from an easy-going, laid back sort of understated brand of fantasy to high farce. Then it snapped to grimdark.

40K was never my bag, so I can't comment one way or the other.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 09:44:27 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 08, 2015, 07:11:37 PM

Oh come on, you have got to be kidding.

Not in the slightest!  :)

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 08, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
Sure, some of it probably isn't twee, but a lot of it is also naff. I personally do not demand realism in my completely fictional fantasy miniatures. A bit of crazy, nonsensical madness does me quite nicely. If we take the LOTR stuff, which isn't Heroic Scale, those things are barely fun to paint. Twee means quaint. It isn't about scale, it's about style.

I'd agree about the LotR stuff not being much fun to paint. I'm not a great fan of the films (though I do like the Rohirrim miniatures), and I much prefer Citadel's early metal "heroic scale" LotR range from the 80s (there were some shockers in that, but also some very good models that hold up well today).

My point about the goblins had nothing to do with scale: the recent plastics are much more twee - like garden gnomes - than the Perry solid-based metal ones (e.g. the night goblins and chaos goblins). As well as being quaint, the plastic goblins are also more cartoonish and less plausible. They're not bad, (the one-piece hooded range) but they are nothing like as convincing as their solid-based brethren of yore.

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 08, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
Sure, some of the models are quite iconic, but it's often through sifting over a massive amount of models that look incredibly dated and incredibly generic.

But there are whole ranges that are terrific. Aly Morrison's pre-slotta hobgoblins, for example: some of the best "orcish" miniatures ever made. The C15 armoured orcs. The Perrys' night goblins and chaos goblins. Their Slann. Their broo. Tom Meier's trolls, giant goblins, lizardmen and troglodytes. Or Trish Morrison's beastmen (it was all downhill from there - from eerie wretchedness and a suitably chaotic menagerie to cricket-bat swords, steroids and identikit goatmen; that said, I do quite like the recent ungor plastics, which are much better than anything since the Morrison ones, though still too goatish). And so on.

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 08, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
There's nothing I've seen, from, say, the 4th Edition WHFB Chaos range that you couldn't easily spot in any B Movie fantasy movie like Hawk the Slayer, Sword of the Sorcerer or Krull. And whilst those images undoubtedly have charm about them, if I had to take say, the modern Lord of the Rings films, 300 or 47 Ronin or the aforementioned films, I wouldn't think about it for long. The older 3 may be guilty pleasures of mine, but I'd rather watch something nuts like 300 over them if I wanted to be entertained for an evening. My attitude is similar when it comes to miniatures.

Now, I agree with you on the fourth-edition stuff. It's terrible: camp and cartoony. I think a lot of Citadel ranges got brasher, camper and sillier once slotta-basing freed up the posing. But I don't quite follow your argument. Surely the reason that the LotR films work better than the 80s ones you mention is, in part, because so much effort was put into making the costumes plausible. The miniature equivalents, to me, are the understated, non-cartoony Perry night goblins and armoured orcs, or the Morrison hobgoblins. They're plausible, in the way that Peter Jackson's costuming is and Hawk the Slayer's is not. You could field a warband of Morrison hobgoblins against Foundry Samurai and have a pretty convincing-looking tabletop battle - and all in "heroic scale".

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 08, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
They look dated. They utterly do. I have a lot of the Rogue Trader Ork models. I love them for their character. But they are twee, and they are dated.

As I remember it, the Orks were pretty goofy from the start. There were one or two of the early nobles in power armour that looked quite sinister in a Treen sort of way, and the odd other exception, but they were goofy from the get-go. I haven't followed their progress much, but the latest ones seem to have layered a steroidal campness on the goofiness.

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 08, 2015, 07:11:37 PM
Fitting in with Historical Miniatures also doesn't fit with my benchmark of good. I personally didn't like the models you posted. I'd actually rather have the Varanguard. I'm not saying nobody could like the models you posted up, I'm just saying there is a market for their models, and that's the one thing that wont change quickly. Frankly, I find a lot of Old Hammer models dull. Uninspiring, necessarily generic, because GW hadn't found what their fantasy was about, and so piddled around with all the typical sorts of tropes and visages you find on the cover of any trashy LOTR knock off book.

But it's hard to see how miniatures that fit in well with historicals can be twee. Convincing, plausible, naturalistic (I think the best pre-slotta Perry and Morrison stuff is all that), but not twee. Now, once you get into the slottabase era, all sorts of silliness and tweeness comes spilling out. Much as I love the Morrisons' early stuff, I think the whole Marauder range is pretty twee (barring a few exceptions). I'd take a Morrison hobgoblin over a Marauder orc any time.

I agree with all that Cubs said above. I think the third edition of Warhammer was around the time when things began to decline. Miniatures lost much of their character, but also became goofier. The first and second editions had great scenarios and very limited background, which was all to the good. The more scope for using your imagination, the better. The rules were patchy, but they were RPG-like: you improvised or filled in the gaps.

And on that note - that's one other thing I dislike about current GW figures. Unless you're heavily into conversion and alterations, there are far fewer blanks to fill in when painting. It's hard to spot the opportunities for some quick freehand on those Varanguard, for example. I've painted precisely one AOS miniature, and it took a lot of chopping, scraping and filing to make some space for painting designs on the shield and armour.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on December 08, 2015, 10:28:36 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on December 08, 2015, 08:30:25 PM
All three are utter shit IMO. But hey, there's no point discussing taste eh ;)

Yeah, this is more my idea of "badass" when it comes to a horseman.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/60/53/7d/60537d5472d0a0971f4c50cc85928a79.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 08, 2015, 11:02:03 PM
I don't entirely disagree with Dim Reaper, but I don't entirely agree either. One set of old Citadel minis, before my time, I'd give most leeway to are the C11 halflings. (http://www.solegends.com/citc/c11halflings.htm) A decent example of iffy sculpting but lots of character. They're twee, but that's why I like them. ;) Moreso than other halflings, including the realistic Perry hobbit sculpts for the LotR SBG.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 08, 2015, 06:01:45 PM
As for Mantic; yes, it's true that they copy GW and ride their coat tales to drum up business.
However, theirs is a peculiar problem now of wanting to sell huge armies, for huge games, for "cheap". Well, the only sci-fi and fantasy games of note like that (in 28mm no less) are GW's, and so all the potential customers who come to Mantic ask "can I use my existing army"? Mantic say yes, and that leads their path round into a circle.
I personally think that aiming for better models and better quality whilst also reducing the number of models required for their games would really help them, (and allow them to forge their own path) but... They don't seem to want to.

This. I was turned off KoW rules because there were elements still too similar to Warhammer for my liking. IGOUGO, characters as close combat beasts rather than commanders, things like orcs on 25mm bases when everything else is on 20mms, when it's all about the entire unit footprint anyway. I can understand it was to ease the transition of WFB players;  but when rumours of WFB turning to a round-base skirmish game started popping up, and I wondered if KoW would eventually change some of those elements, I was met with a few blank stares. "Why would they do that?"

On the matter of Mantic orcs, Hupp n at em: not to say that I think the only orcs should be Tolkien style orcs, but I don't think they should only be GW style orcs either. :) (And Tolkien style orcs are thin on the ground anyway)

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 08, 2015, 08:14:53 PM
It's like everything GW does these days, it does perfunctorily. The grimdarkness, the aesthetic, the rules (from what I hear). It's as if their sole motivation for doing what they do nowadays is "We're GW, this is what we do". Why the turgid doomsday romanticism? "We're GW". Why the camouflage of detail? "We're GW". Why all the spikes and skulls on every surface? "We're GW".

Oh yes. :D

Quote from: Cubs on December 08, 2015, 08:43:09 PM
You think 4th Ed onwards looks silly? I agree, that was their comical phase - the infamous 'Red Era', which I also disliked. It went from an easy-going, laid back sort of understated brand of fantasy to high farce.

I think that confirms the period of models I'm least fussed on, myself.

And 'understated'. Yup. That's what missing from fantasy, in too many ways. Understatement and subtlety. GW minis are covered in spikez and skullz, fighting with unrelenting fury over the carnivorous forests and geological layers of skulls of a planet five minutes from blowing up, and now over a load of single-biome universes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SingleBiomePlanet). Mantic takes the 'slender elf' trope and turns it into something with the anatomy and apparent movement of Woody from Toy Story. Peter Jackson... well, Peter Jackson.

On that note, on the Khorne Kavalry lineup: I don't see what makes the right model look so much more dorky than the other two. Shave some of the giant spikes off and it'd look decent. I kinda like the juggernaught too. (though I think they were a bit more sinister, meaningful and cooler when they were more scarce) Shave a few spikes off that too, tone it down and streamline it a bit.
Shave the spikes off the varanguard, and... I'm not sure what would be left. Maybe there's a decent mini underneath all that, but I don't think it looks badass, because it looks like it's trying too hard to be badass. It's one of the best examples of the adolescent idea of 'badass' that GW's chasing. It's huge, for... reasons. It's wreathed in spikes and skulls and this and that. The pose and motion are spastic. The giant fangy mouth and claws flying, remind me of the 'slasher pose' that's complained about in OTT palaeoart. (http://markwitton-com.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/what-daleks-xenomorphs-and-slasher.html) It's exhausting to look at.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 08, 2015, 11:24:45 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 09:44:27 PM
Surely the reason that the LotR films work better than the 80s ones you mention is, in part, because so much effort was put into making the costumes plausible. The miniature equivalents, to me, are the understated, non-cartoony Perry night goblins and armoured orcs, or the Morrison hobgoblins. They're plausible, in the way that Peter Jackson's costuming is and Hawk the Slayer's is not. You could field a warband of Morrison hobgoblins against Foundry Samurai and have a pretty convincing-looking tabletop battle - and all in "heroic scale".

Verisimilitude! I've been ranting about it - mostly in relation to dragons and other monsters - for years. (Though the thing that might disappoint you is, I can't stand Trish's dragons!)

Quote from: Hupp n at em on December 08, 2015, 10:28:36 PM
Yeah, this is more my idea of "badass" when it comes to a horseman.

 :D

I think even Frazetta's Deathdealer looks more like that, than like a varanguard.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 08, 2015, 11:43:07 PM
Not in reply to anyone, but just in elaboration of what I was trying to get across in my previous post:

40K has always rested on a bedrock of "grimdark", and WHFB has always had an undercurrent of that as well (if we take "grimdark" to be largely the same as "dark fantasy"), but that concept has changed in tone and timbre over the years, turning frankly dumber and more banal.

The concept of grimdark in the 40K and Warhammer worlds used to be like: "Beware the [forest/underhive], for there are mutants somewhere in those murky depths, and it is whispered they worship dark and twisted things...". It had a sense of ambience, depth, profoundness and ensnaring allure about it.

Now it's more like: "GRRAAAAHHH!! LOOK AT MY MUSCLES!! LOOK AT MY SPIKES!! GRRAAAAHHH!!!!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 11:53:20 PM
Quote from: Vermis on December 08, 2015, 11:24:45 PM
Verisimilitude! I've been ranting about it - mostly in relation to dragons and other monsters - for years. (Though the thing that might disappoint you is, I can't stand Trish's dragons!)

 :D

I'm not sure if I've ever seen her dragons. I love her beastmen, troglodytes and her first batch of slann (not the static, standing-on-their-toes ones that came later, but the earlier ones that blend pretty well with the Perry ones, and the hound handler, who accompanied the static ones but seems of a piece with the earlier batch).

And on GW's beastmen: why did it have to go all goaty? The Morrison ones were fabulously diverse (and wretched-looking with it): camel-men, eagle-men, locust-men, slug-men, seahorse-men, etc. At least the Runequest broo had a good, if disgusting, reason for mainly resembling livestock - and even then, the Perrys managed to squeeze in the odd iguana, rhino or unicorn.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 11:54:33 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 08, 2015, 11:43:07 PM


The concept of grimdark in the 40K and Warhammer worlds used to be like: "Beware the [forest/underhive], for there are mutants somewhere in those murky depths, and it is whispered they worship dark and twisted things...". It had a sense of ambience, depth, profoundness and ensnaring allure about it.

Now it's more like: "GRRAAAAHHH!! LOOK AT MY MUSCLES!! LOOK AT MY SPIKES!! GRRAAAAHHH!!!!"


That is perfectly put! A cloven hoof glimpsed beneath a robe is much more sinister than Mr Universe rolled in barbed wire.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 01:14:41 AM
First, some apologies are necessary. Firstly, sorry to everyone for what seems to have been opening up pandora's box to a world of disagreements over taste. To a fair extent that wasn't the intent, but it was part of it. I think I can better elucidate my point here now that I've had time to think through how to express it.

Also to Hobgoblin, I've obviously misunderstood some of your point. I did get what you were on about with realistic proportions, but I really do wish you had used a modern example from the fantasy range to highlight your point (as you have in your reply). I'll get to why shortly.

I'm also sorry if I make anyone feel old. But I'm afraid that's inevitable given what I'm going to say in precisely two seconds.

So let's get the latter apology out of the way. To be honest, I barely know anything about 4th Edition, it's before my time. It is just about within the vision of the point at which I had entered the hobby, but that's only because I had gaming buddies at the time who were older than me. I started when 5th Ed WHFB and 2nd Ed 40k were about, and I was 9. The edition of Fantasy that typifies my experience was 6th Edition. I did play 5th, but I only had about two years of it, and I flitted between Dark Elves and Skaven. I love the Doomwheel, and 5th Edition is why.

So my only experience is the "goofy" Warhammer. I just don't see what's wrong with it. I'm reticent to suggest the nostalgia filter for those who prefer the older editions, as I think that would be unfair, but also because I can't rule out myself having similar biases. Whilst I'm prepared to accept that part of GW's problem has been models that go too far, but I think it's unfair to call this bad. It's different, that's all. If it was such a glaring problem, where are the understated minis trying to cash in? Perhaps I've missed them, but most follow GW's lead.

I would assert there's a reason for this. It links to one of your comments, so I'll follow up after the quote:

Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 09:44:27 PM
And on that note - that's one other thing I dislike about current GW figures. Unless you're heavily into conversion and alterations, there are far fewer blanks to fill in when painting. It's hard to spot the opportunities for some quick freehand on those Varanguard, for example. I've painted precisely one AOS miniature, and it took a lot of chopping, scraping and filing to make some space for painting designs on the shield and armour.

See here, I agree and disagree, and mostly disagree, actually. Whilst it is certainly nice to have room for a bit of flourish, it's something that exists largely for those with the talent to apply flourish well, and the amount of people who can do that are a minority in the industry. I've seen there are people on here who are undoubtedly good enough to fit into this category. I barely fit into it, and a lot of the people in my local club say I'm one of the better painters in the group. That is not to say that I'm good (I consider myself passable) but that most people aren't, for whatever reason. One of the things that is good about having so much detail, is that a few simple techniques that anyone can learn can be applied to these and have very, very good effects. One of the things GW has been good at is making paints that help the inept, and having models that partly paint themselves. That's one of the upshots of so much detail. There are recesses that acquire ink, and that can be drybrushed over, that can be layered over and edge-highlighted without much effort.

Whereas Freehand, whilst not a forgotten art, is fiddly. It isn't wet blending fiddly, but it is fiddly. Freehand also exists to a great extent because it was needed before, and now it isn't. Casting and production have improved, CAD has come in. Detail in minute levels is possible on a scale that simply wasn't before. So models were plainer and simpler back in the day. To many extents, that was more by necessity than design. Detail porn just wouldn't work as well on spin casting as it will on the latest 3D printers and plastic pressure moulds.

So to a great extent, GW's models are over the top, because they can be. I for one don't think the Varanguard look naff (as much as their name certainly is). Over the top? Certainly. But that fits with the feel that GW is going for. It is a perfectly valid direction to go in, and I for one generally like the results. As you say, elements of the GW range have been pretty wacky for so long now. Undoubtedly for a longer time than when they were more conservative, or believable, realistic etc. Don't you think it'd be a bigger betrayal to knock their current aesthetic back now, than return to a time of GW's production, that I hasten to add, although somewhat regrettably, most people are too young to know about?

Now, that is not to say that they need to for those reasons, or that indeed, less can be more. But more can be more too. I like the crazy detail. Let's have an example. Hmm... yes, let's go crazy:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Dimreapa/1MH_zpsapxzfwi3.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Dimreapa/media/1MH_zpsapxzfwi3.jpg.html)

These are Morghast Harbingers (yeah, their naming principles have been awful for years now) and they came out with all the End Times stuff. I rather like them (in spite of them being an absolute pig to build) and have 4. There's a halberd variant called Morghast Archai as well, and I'll probably have 4 of those too. I like all of their skeletal range, across Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings (even the oversized, older skeletons), and I'm loving the fact that AoS has given me the chance to build an entire Skeletal army across the two ranges that actually works together.

They are typically citadelly gratuitous: loads and loads of skulls, oversized weapons, crazy poses and mad base connections. It makes them a pain to transport, but all the over-the-top-ness makes me love them more. It's not rational, that I know. But I find them appealing. My tastes are quite eclectic in wargaming. I own an odd mix of stuff, but I am most attracted to things that are a little excessive. This will become evident when I show off my Infamy Kickstarter Minis in the Victorian SF section.

Some have also mentioned that GW have lost this sense of irony and fun and gone too far down a serious road. Whilst with merit, it's not strictly true. There's always the odd bit of fun in there, even if you just have to take things such as GW running a competition for players to take a stab at how many skulls were on GW's new bit of Chaos terrain. They do at least seem aware of the ridiculousness of their models, but note them as an appealing part of the citadel brand, and I personally agree with them.

Like I said, it's a matter of difference for me. I don't mind realistic poses and proportions. I don't actively avoid them. But I don't need them. For me, it's all about aesthetics. I like pretty models. Whether they're cluttered or not, doesn't seem to bother me in most cases. We don't need to descend into this route, as there's nothing more personal than taste. However, I think some of my points have been misunderstood. Reading through my somewhat reactionary posts that's evidently my fault, although I will stand by quite a few of my points.

The purpose of mentioning the films, and indeed, LOTR especially, was that for me, the issue seemed to be more about Old vs. New, than the issue of proportioning. This is why I feel a more modern example would have proved your point better, I feel. To some extent, I still feel this is part of it, and my film examples still make a point. LOTR fits into your proportions argument, but it can and that's largely the point. Cinema has improved visually, and to a huge extent, films can actually be adapted without ridiculously detracting from the source material. Certainly I fit into the category of person who thinks 9 of 10 of Jackson's pragmatic adaptations for LOTR worked better than the source material (wont say the same for the Hobbit, though).

But 300, 47 Ronin, or any other CG Fest film could do the same, and yet they don't. Does that make them inferior? Not necessarily, and that's broadly my point. Likewise, whilst I have a soft spot for the 3 B Movies I mentioned, they are by many accounts, utterly shit. They have a charm to them, but they don't deserve to be elevated above modern films just because they come from a time when the audience didn't expect as much at the flicks, or from a VHS.

That's what worries me about some of this argument. It straddles the line of nostalgia jingoism. Of everything being better back in the day of simpler times, of less corporate attitudes. Because I've hit 30, and I feel the same about my first experiences of the miniatures, from the early-mid 90s, and thus I have a great deal of suspicion of the whole deal. Because it can't just be a wholesale deterioration. It simply can't. I criticise GW more than most, but I don't think it's all been downhill from 2nd Edition 40k and 5th Edition Fantasy. They were both incredibly flawed. There's been ups and downs since, and the corporate attitude has grown, but so too has industry knowledge, and production abilities.

There is no longer any need to print off the same plastic shield 50 times and get the customer to break a dozen transfers or develop arthritis of the wrist free-handing a simple, doable symbol, when a modern printer, resin master, or injection mould can do all of that in seconds.

The industry moves on. GW are content aiming their stuff at the common denominator. The sorts of people that big budget CG-athons appeal to, deliberately over the top and obviously satisfying to as many senses as possible, but artistically about as deep as a puddle. I kind of agree with them too. I don't have very high standards when it comes to miniatures. I'm quite expectant with rules (which is why it is so surprising that I still play GW's) but with miniatures I'm pretty easily satisfied. I like to think I can spot what will become iconic miniatures in the future, but that's the extent to my discernment. I don't feel every miniature needs to be fine art, and since I became a Rackham Collector, I've never bothered look at GW for my fix for them. To coin a Computer Gaming analogy: not every game has to be the next Shadow of the Colossus. A good dozen or so that are simply fun will do.

Over the Top does it for me. I quite like those sorts of miniatures. I like understated too. But I don't need every model to be individual either. I just know what I like when I see it. I don't have an issue with GW coming up with elaborate kits. I get pretty annoyed with GW's rather increasingly dogmatic kits that are hard to modify and convert (that's a true USP that they are singularly fucking up) that lead to very familiar static poses (rather going against GW's plan to encourage playing massive games), but I do like the visuals. Most of my ire comes from their determination to match up stunning and brilliantly cast plastic miniatures alongside rules systems that are utter dogshit. That's the point at which the price tag bothers me. Not before.

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 08, 2015, 08:14:53 PM
Out of curiosity, Dim Reaper, has Mat Ward by any chance secured a restraining order against you? ;)

He would probably want to. I've only ever had about two sentences to say about him that were nice. I've said a lot more than that in my time. But it's quite simple really, and I'd like to sidestep the action for a second and address this. To my mind, no person has ever done more damage to this industry than he has. I will allow for opinions that say he wasn't that bad (not accepting they're right, as they aren't, but they're irrelevant), but here's a test to show. You own a wargaming company, and you want a hire a writer. Mat Ward has a GW CV, but you know enough about his reputation (and if you hadn't, look him up on 1D4chan. They're pretty accurate), would you hire him to work for your company? The answer to that simply has to be no, if you care about your fanbase. Because that reputation will follow him, and your fans will suspect him of doing similar damage to your brand. Out of consideration for your fanbase you would have to avoid hiring him. Now, ask the question again, only you're hiring a Tea Boy, and not a Writer. It wont take long to realise that your answer should be exactly the same for exactly the same reasons. At that point, I rest my case.

I'm a rules writer, in an amateur sense, I guess. I've made a few wargames, skirmish games, and mini-games and I'm working on more. I'd like, one day, to get paid for it. Mat Ward offends every sensibility I have developed in the 20+ years I've made my own rules and fan-rules, on principle. If there is ever a more odious, talentless and horrendous blot on the world of wargame writing, we will literally know the True Wargaming End Times. And it'll be messier.

The best thing Mat Ward could do is get a career answering phones. Just hearing him talk or utter sentences makes me want to hit him in the face, so he's perfect for it. For wargaming writing, he's the most unsuitable human being who has ever walked the earth, with the possible exception of the nutcase who wrote FATAL. But there's not much in it. For one thing they have a similar view of women by most accounts...

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 08, 2015, 08:14:53 PM
It's like everything GW does these days, it does perfunctorily. The grimdarkness, the aesthetic, the rules (from what I hear). It's as if their sole motivation for doing what they do nowadays is "We're GW, this is what we do". Why the turgid doomsday romanticism? "We're GW". Why the camouflage of detail? "We're GW". Why all the spikes and skulls on every surface? "We're GW".

Well again, it's that attitude problem. They seem to run on classic game theory. Admitting fault means sacrificing authority and face. So they don't do it. Still, at least they're sticking to their guns on something. It'd be nice if that found its way into rules, and then we could actually see what kind of games they want to make, rather than a hodgepodge of collective shrugs.

Quote from: Vermis on December 08, 2015, 11:02:03 PM
This. I was turned off KoW rules because there were elements still too similar to Warhammer for my liking. IGOUGO, characters as close combat beasts rather than commanders, things like orcs on 25mm bases when everything else is on 20mms, when it's all about the entire unit footprint anyway. I can understand it was to ease the transition of WFB players;  but when rumours of WFB turning to a round-base skirmish game started popping up, and I wondered if KoW would eventually change some of those elements, I was met with a few blank stares. "Why would they do that?"

Let's continue the cycle: This. I am rather tired, it must be said, of gamers letting companies get away with nonsense like this, or to talk about expecting similar corporate shenanigans from companies just because they're not GW. The Privateer Press fanbase are pretty unbearable with this. Notwithstanding that after 5 or so years of PP bitching about GW and how much they suck, that they've fallen into pretty much all of the same traps in much less of the time it took GW, and their miniatures are still not a patch on the detail and quality that GW can put out. Sure, Mk.1 was a pretty crisp ruleset, but they've endeavoured to screw up pretty much all of its merits in favour of following the usual corporate ante-upping nonsense that they've forced themselves into using because of the way that their games work.

Mantic gets away with so much just because they mock GW, or offer "what GW refuses to do". Whilst there is some truth in GW's shocking attitude, not enough is made of companies like this that force GW to be militantly protective of IP and do crazed things to enforce it. Mantic are as dangerous to the industry as GW is, and as are PP in their own way. They all promote a large amount of misconceptions and reductive attitudes to wargaming products. Perhaps they need to, in order to keep afloat as a business, but it doesn't seem like any of them have the talent to try anything different, and resort to similar tricks as GW, and very rarely get called out on it.

It is rather surprising that some WHFB players think Mantic are the solutions to their problems. Harbouring a few ex-GW writers that I never rated anyway, I'd say they're just a tad naive.

TL,DR: Actually grant, you might just want to give this one a miss...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 09, 2015, 02:21:48 AM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 11:54:33 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 08, 2015, 11:43:07 PM
The concept of grimdark in the 40K and Warhammer worlds used to be like: "Beware the [forest/underhive], for there are mutants somewhere in those murky depths, and it is whispered they worship dark and twisted things...". It had a sense of ambience, depth, profoundness and ensnaring allure about it.

Now it's more like: "GRRAAAAHHH!! LOOK AT MY MUSCLES!! LOOK AT MY SPIKES!! GRRAAAAHHH!!!!"

That is perfectly put! A cloven hoof glimpsed beneath a robe is much more sinister than Mr Universe rolled in barbed wire.

Agreed!

I feel the same way about overly graphic and over-coreographed action films too... The understatement of realism is absolutely chilling compared to the overblown fakeness of Hollywood's continuing efforts to shock through gore and crunchy sound effects. There's a relevant parallel there with GW's design and story choices, I'm sure.  :P


Quote from: Vermis on December 08, 2015, 11:02:03 PM
I was turned off KoW rules because there were elements still too similar to Warhammer for my liking. IGOUGO, characters as close combat beasts rather than commanders, things like orcs on 25mm bases when everything else is on 20mms, when it's all about the entire unit footprint anyway. I can understand it was to ease the transition of WFB players; but when rumours of WFB turning to a round-base skirmish game started popping up, and I wondered if KoW would eventually change some of those elements, I was met with a few blank stares. "Why would they do that?"

To be fair, the way the game works is fine (simple, but generally the most fun elements of playing WHFB have been retained, and the most tedious parts dropped).

Also, the way the unit basing works is actually quite liberating - you need fewer models and you can make the unit into an intersting vingette if you fancy (both reasons that things like unit fillers existed in WHFB).

Aside from that... Nearly all the races in KoW are just ports of WHFB races. Okay, some of them play a little differently or can be represented by different lists, but we're talking a veneer of difference here. I see perfectly well why Mantic did that, but I honestly think they missed an opportunity to do thier own thing; they are now stuck between trying to attract new customers, and not wating aliente those they already have.

To be fair to Mantic, they are trying a little more to do thier own thing now. Warpath has generally different factions than 40k, although you could rightly argue that Forge Fathers = Squats, Marauders = Orks, and Asterians = Eldar. They are also trying to make more and better models in sprued HIPS plastic.

However, when it comes to selling models for Warpath, they still insist of the GW-style units of 10 models with a heavy weapon, special weapon and leader with a close-combat loadout. Why? Why not 8 or 12 models? Why not different mixes of models and weapons?

It's infuriating to be honest, but at least they seem more keen to break away from GW's teat with Warpath. Who knows, in time they may yet make a reasonably-balanced and fun game with all plastic-sprued models that look nice. I guess we'll see!


Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 08, 2015, 07:43:22 PM
(http://cdn.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/hnBYoi3-Copy.jpg)

Left.. kinda weird, right... kinda dorky, center... definitely badass...  :-*

I think they all look kinda weird and dorky, and some of them look kinda badass I guess. The Knight is actually okay, as is the Jugger. I don't think the Varanthingy is 100% terrible either, but I don't see any simple way to customise it and make it "mine" besides a different paintjob.

I also think that the rider is basically lost on the mount - same problem as the new Archaon has IMO - which I find especially weird in a game that's supposed to be about character-driven narrative skirmishes (allegedly).


@ Dim Reaper:

Waaaay to much to respond to. I do want to touch on more detail = easier to paint though.

Basically, that's a fallacy.

More detail takes longer to paint, and also limits very severly any chance of casual customisation. For example, the Chaos star on the red barding of the Varan model above; what if I just wanted a plain red barding? Or a different symbol? Sure I could file it off, but it would look rough and would also remove a lot of the surrounding detail too. More detail also camouflages interesting details too, which genercises the models further.

I paint okay, but I am slow in completing things; however, I paint a lot more when I'm not bogged down with pointless detail that gets in the way of finishing a simple and striking paintjob in a reasonable time (and a lot of that excess detail quite frankly just isn't visible on a finished model anyway).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 03:05:22 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 09, 2015, 02:21:48 AM
@ Dim Reaper:

Waaaay to much to respond to. I do want to touch on more detail = easier to paint though.

Basically, that's a fallacy.

More detail takes longer to paint, and also limits very severly any chance of casual customisation. For example, the Chaos star on the red barding of the Varan model above; what if I just wanted a plain red barding? Or a different symbol? Sure I could file it off, but it would look rough and would also remove a lot of the surrounding detail too. More detail also camouflages interesting details too, which genercises the models further.

I paint okay, but I am slow in completing things; however, I paint a lot more when I'm not bogged down with pointless detail that gets in the way of finishing a simple and striking paintjob in a reasonable time (and a lot of that excess detail quite frankly just isn't visible on a finished model anyway).

Of course it looks like a fallacy. It's not what I wrote. It's rather obvious that a plainer model is easier to paint (quickly) than a model with oodles of detail. The point I made was that it's easier to make a model look more epic with a paint job when there are details that you can highlight, instead of needing to freehand, or ruin with transfers. That's a completely different conception.

Speed is pretty irrelevant too. Because anyway, there are GW armies that are easy to paint quickly if that's what you're after. Really you're looking at a handful of set pieces, and those sorts of things deserve more effort put into them anyway.

Customisation is an issue, but it's still a perfectly doable thing with very minor work on most of GW's miniatures. Chaos stuff is very problematic in that case, so I think they're a pretty unfair example to use for general terms.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 09, 2015, 03:24:54 AM
TL, DR: more crazy models, GW gets crazier! Prices still bonkers.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 09, 2015, 03:39:39 AM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 08, 2015, 11:43:07 PM
The concept of grimdark in the 40K and Warhammer worlds used to be like: "Beware the [forest/underhive], for there are mutants somewhere in those murky depths, and it is whispered they worship dark and twisted things...". It had a sense of ambience, depth, profoundness and ensnaring allure about it.

Now it's more like: "GRRAAAAHHH!! LOOK AT MY MUSCLES!! LOOK AT MY SPIKES!! GRRAAAAHHH!!!!"

What Hobgoblin and the Major said. Well said. :)

Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 08, 2015, 11:53:20 PM
I'm not sure if I've ever seen her dragons.

Well, she's been GW's go-to monster sculptor for years before I turned up in wargaming, only giving some ground to Seb Perbett since he arrived to redo the Skaven and sculpt some lizardmen monsters.

My attitude to her sculpts might be a bit similar to Dim's attitude to Mat Ward, but maybe a bit more mellow. lol Long story short, and to crib from Dim: after 20+ years of observing, researching, and drawing animals and fictional creature designs of all sorts, her GW dragons offend almost every sensibility I've developed.

Quote from: Dim_Reaper
Over the top? Certainly. But that fits with the feel that GW is going for. It is a perfectly valid direction to go in

Hate to say it, but you have a point. :)

I might have to go sit with Grant, though. I read the whole post, but I think the best response I can give is 'okay!' Although...

Quote
I am rather tired, it must be said, of gamers letting companies get away with nonsense like this, or to talk about expecting similar corporate shenanigans from companies just because they're not GW.
... it doesn't seem like any of them have the talent to try anything different, and resort to similar tricks as GW, and very rarely get called out on it.

For me it comes out in the way a lot of the 'blockbuster' games seem to foster the attitude that their minis, rules and setting are indivisible, one and the same, apparently in order to hook gamers on their products and respond to their little purchase prompts in the rules. And while I agree it's nice and convenient to have a tailored, all-in-one product, I've just recently seen some gamers horrified at the idea of using KoW rules, 'cos then they'd have to use Mantic models and fluff. Not the first time I've seen something like it. There's brand/game loyalty, and then there's psychosis... o_o

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 09, 2015, 02:21:48 AM
To be fair, the way the game works is fine (simple, but generally the most fun elements of playing WHFB have been retained, and the most tedious parts dropped).

Also, the way the unit basing works is actually quite liberating - you need fewer models and you can make the unit into an intersting vingette if you fancy (both reasons that things like unit fillers existed in WHFB).

Agreed! Especially about keeping the fun elements and dropping the tedious. But I also agree that breaking out of a 'Warhammer lite' image might be a benefit.

Oh, and here's what I really came here to post about:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Starbeast-Constellation

Two hundred models. Over half a grand. One warscroll formation. Remind me how this game was supposed to to be a small, quick skirmish, and a fresh new direction for GW?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 04:03:25 AM
Quote from: Vermis on December 09, 2015, 03:39:39 AM
Hate to say it, but you have a point. :)

I might have to go sit with Grant, though. I read the whole post, but I think the best response I can give is 'okay!'

Kinda what I deserve for sticking up for GW for once.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on December 09, 2015, 05:37:15 AM
Quote from: Scurv on December 09, 2015, 05:18:55 AM
What does TL . DR mean?

AFAIK its origin lies with reddit but it stands for Too Long; Didn't Read.  People use it to preface a very brief summary at the end of a very long post.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 05:40:48 AM
Quote from: Scurv on December 09, 2015, 05:18:55 AM
What does TL . DR mean?

Too long, didn't read. Or Too Long Dim Reaper. Rather used to both at this stage.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 09, 2015, 05:53:30 AM
Quote from: Scurv on December 09, 2015, 05:18:55 AM
What does TL . DR mean?

"Too long, didn't read". - executive summary. My response to the the exceeding long posts that have become this section. Skim, get the point, some. I don't have time for a novella.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 09, 2015, 09:02:56 AM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 05:40:48 AM
Too long, didn't read. Or Too Long Dim Reaper. Rather used to both at this stage.  lol

Actually, quite like your and other members longer posts, especially sitting at work running up database changes, scripts and email replies to colleagues without swearing.

Sad I know but there you go.

The mixture of points of view and feelings about the GW is an interesting boiling pot to read sometimes.

Whereas I normally stick to the odd comment about skulls and things.

Not seeing a particular need beyond the  "charging me to much/rules not so good" bits to worry.

I like many of their models, I own quite a few, mostly older, granted, and granted, my all time favourites are mostly different manufacturers, but still I like what I like.

Some twee, some not, even some with skulls and spikes on them.

It would be far to boring if we all liked the same things all the time.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 09, 2015, 09:28:10 AM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 01:14:41 AM
One of the things that is good about having so much detail, is that a few simple techniques that anyone can learn can be applied to these and have very, very good effects. One of the things GW has been good at is making paints that help the inept, and having models that partly paint themselves. That's one of the upshots of so much detail. There are recesses that acquire ink, and that can be drybrushed over, that can be layered over and edge-highlighted without much effort.

Apologies if I misunderstood (it was late!), but in this section you seemed to imply that more detail was easier (and therefore faster) to paint. I do get that having a moulded icon to paint over is easier than using a transfer or freehanding though, but my point is that you are then pretty much forced to paint that exact icon just like everybody else with no real scope for personalising. You are also pretty much forced to deal with that moulded icon too, whereas if it wasn't there you might not feel obliged to even bother with it at all.

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 03:05:22 AM
Speed is pretty irrelevant too. Because anyway, there are GW armies that are easy to paint quickly if that's what you're after. Really you're looking at a handful of set pieces, and those sorts of things deserve more effort put into them anyway.

Customisation is an issue, but it's still a perfectly doable thing with very minor work on most of GW's miniatures. Chaos stuff is very problematic in that case, so I think they're a pretty unfair example to use for general terms.

I also don't really see why I should have to be herded towards a specific army if I want to actually have a chance of finishing a nicely-painted army in my lifetime? And too many colossal and overly-delicate set pieces is exactly what's wrong with models supposedly made for playing a game with.

As for the Chaos example... Okay, take some other recent releases from the Sigmarines or undead then - pretty much the same issue. <shrug>


Quote from: Vermis on December 09, 2015, 03:39:39 AM
Oh, and here's what I really came here to post about:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Starbeast-Constellation

Two hundred models. Over half a grand. One warscroll formation. Remind me how this game was supposed to to be a small, quick skirmish, and a fresh new direction for GW?

Ah, but you can just play the game with 10 models if you want - you don't need all 200. The old days of needing 200-model armies are behind us because this is clearly a skirmish force - and you can tell because they are all on round bases. ::)

Now, it may not be much of game with 10 models (or even 200...), but golly gosh if little Jimmy can't at least join in with his half-painted box of Saurus Warriors. I mean, if that isn't lowering the entry barrier, then who knows what is!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 09, 2015, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: Vermis on December 09, 2015, 03:39:39 AM
Oh, and here's what I really came here to post about:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Starbeast-Constellation

Two hundred models. Over half a grand. One warscroll formation. Remind me how this game was supposed to to be a small, quick skirmish, and a fresh new direction for GW?

"Hey, let's play a quick single-warscroll game to get you used to the rules!"
Little Timmy shows up with his freshly painted 5 Stormcast Eternals and Joe Noobstomper shows up with the above...  ::)

There are some good points made in the various previous longer posts, maybe I'll add my own .02 when I'm on a proper keyboard.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 09, 2015, 10:06:08 AM
Well put Rhod.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 09, 2015, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: Modhail on December 09, 2015, 10:02:09 AM
"Hey, let's play a quick single-warscroll game to get you used to the rules!"
Little Timmy shows up with his freshly painted 5 Stormcast Eternals and Joe Noobstomper shows up with the above...  ::)

Well... actually it is not a single warscroll game. Let me try to clear some things up for you.

- Each unit/hero has a warscroll. The warscroll gives the units capabilities.
- Units can be further grouped together to form a warband, battalion, host, etc., which gives the group an additional warscroll.
- The players then determine which realm they are going to play the game on. Realms have special rules and terrain.
- The players then place terrain on the board, some of which have special capabilities and their own warscroll. Each terrain piece is then given a special quality based on the terrain table and a dice roll.
- If the players are playing a certain scenario (which is what the game was designed for), each general will have an additional special ability and further special rules may apply in the game. The scenario will state which forces are to be used.

So actually, no one would ever bring a Starbeast Constellation battalion to the game board though I haven't read the Seraphon Battletome (and that does include 3 Battleplans/scenarios) and even so, I doubt that the opposition would be a single unit.

So actually Little Timmy wouldn't be playing Joe Noobstomper as everyone knows Joe is a jerk. Instead he would be playing in a scenario driven game with Big Bobby... and having a lot of fun.

And as I said before... soooo much mis-information and just plain ignorance about how this game is played.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 09, 2015, 02:44:58 PM
Not in aggrieved reaction, Dim Reaper, but some things you've said I do have to disagree with.

As far as I'm concerned, freehand is timeless and will never wane in relevance. To consistently preempt freehand painting by covering every surface in sculpted details is to preempt an elemental aspect of miniature painting. I'm not good at painting freehand and I rarely do it, but if a range of miniatures literally does not allow me to even try, then that is an undesirable feature of that range for me. Besides, there are times when a plain old block of colour does a miniature good.

Also, I think beauty in miniatures is timeless, as is ugliness. It's my belief that had those exact Varanguard figures been (by some magic) produced and released 30 years ago, well... they would have turned some heads for sure, but they still would fundamentally have suffered from the same problem then that they do today: A "camouflage of details" obscuring the basic essence of the figures. I genuinely can't fully make out their shapes and contours. Come to think of it, I know I've seen some "vintage" miniatures that do suffer from a similar problem, although I can't provide examples as I'm not thinking of any one explicit figure or even any one explicit range, manufacturer or sculptor. They don't look bad now because they haven't aged well - they look bad now because they always have, due to an excess of ill-considered details that don't really help the figures along or amount to more than the sum of their parts.

At least with old figures like that, the problem can be ascribed to the odd overenthusiastic or eccentric sculptor. With GW today, the excess of details largely feels perfunctory, like the product of some automated, self-enforcing process that can't escape its own programming. A process that has inadvertently subverted its own original purpose by having reached the point where it is now homogenising miniatures instead of diversifying them. "If blank surface then add skull, spike, chain, scroll, wickedly curved hook, Chaos symbol or electric hammer symbol". To be fair, one of the reasons I find the basic Sigmarine troopers acceptable is that they come with blank pauldrons ("shoulder pads").

I just keep picturing countless permutations of the the following conversation taking place at GW:

A: "So, I've almost finished this concept drawing of the new Screamslayer Mortificator Predatorian Guardscreamer, there's just one thing I haven't decided on yet."

B: "Yes?"

A: "I don't know whether to leave the helmet as it is, or put a cluster of spikes on it."

B: "Well... we are Games Workshop. What would be the Games Workshop thing to do?"

A: "Put spikes on it."

B: "Well there you go, then!"

Actually, if I can be cheeky for a moment, I then imagine the conversation to continue as follows:

A: "But... I mean, come on... is that really to be our overriding imperative? To do what Games Workshop "would" do as defined by its aggregated history on the basis that we are Games Workshop and that's what we as Games Workshop would do?"

B: "I'm sorry. That question falls outside my parameters. Would you like me to relay the question to a Tier 2 data processing node?"

A: "Err... no, that's fine. Thanks anyway, computer. The last sod who drew the attention of a Tier 2 ended up in some weird fractal loop where he had to just keep drawing spikes sticking out of more spikes sticking out of even more spikes. Messy business. Come to think of it, I haven't seen him around for weeks."

B: "..."

A: "Ah, I see. Forget I brought it up. Could you just order me a sandwich?"

B: "Sure! Your aggregated history logs tell me you prefer ham and cheese. Would you like me to order you a ham and cheese sandwich?"

A: "Actually, I don't prefer ham and cheese. That's just what I had on my first day here and it's what you've gotten me every day since because of my aggregated history logs. Any chance for a coronation chicken?"

B: "I will order you a ham and cheese sandwich."

A: *sigh* "Yes, I thought so. Thank you, computer."

B: "You're very welcome."

:)

(Yes, I know I'm just taking the piss at this point, but I think that's part of what this thread is for. And I don't know why I suddenly had speaker B be a computer. It just felt right.)

I suppose what I'm trying to say with the word "perfunctory" is that many of GW's figures these days have a "forced" and uninspired quality to them. As if the underlying motivation for their conception is not the creative drive or the inspiration of GW's concept artists or sculptors, but something rather more cold, corporate and computational (alliteration not intended). The fact that the products happen to be wargaming miniatures and must therefore undergo a design process is more of an undesired but unavoidable factor in the business model, than a raison d'etre. The phrase "feed the machine!" really does reverberate in my mind.

Do I think of those Morghast Harbingers as "inspired"? Maaayybe, sorta kinda. They're not the first example I would use to illustrate perfunctoriness in GW miniatures design. Likewise the basic Sigmarine troopers. The Varanguard and the Knights of Ruin are better examples. Even better, come to think of it, are the Fyreslayers. They're Dwarf Slayers, but... bigger. That's it. Just bigger. Because in the Age of Sigmar, people and things have grown bigger. Ka-ching!

(And yeah, it's unfair to criticise a company for wanting to make money. But it's also unfair to criticise hobbyists for having some different imperative than conveniently being the magic ingredient in some company's money-making business model.)


Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 01:14:41 AM
Don't you think it'd be a bigger betrayal to knock their current aesthetic back now, than return to a time of GW's production, that I hasten to add, although somewhat regrettably, most people are too young to know about?

I don't strictly disagree with this, but it reaffirms to me what I view as the tragedy of GW. Muscles must continue to bulge because that's where GW lives now. Skulls, spikes, chains and scrolls must continue to be relentlessly prevalent because that's what GW allowed itself to become, and the dial apparently only turns in one direction. I lament it.


Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 01:14:41 AM
That's what worries me about some of this argument. It straddles the line of nostalgia jingoism. Of everything being better back in the day of simpler times, of less corporate attitudes. Because I've hit 30, and I feel the same about my first experiences of the miniatures, from the early-mid 90s, and thus I have a great deal of suspicion of the whole deal. Because it can't just be a wholesale deterioration. It simply can't. I criticise GW more than most, but I don't think it's all been downhill from 2nd Edition 40k and 5th Edition Fantasy. They were both incredibly flawed. There's been ups and downs since, and the corporate attitude has grown, but so too has industry knowledge, and production abilities.

Personally I'm not seeing any nostalgia jingoism, and I'm the same age group as you. The hobby wasn't better in the past -  to me, it's better today than ever before. But GW was better in the past, in most ways save a few, such as technical expertise in plastic miniatures production (just the technical expertise, mind, not the aesthetic design). Fortunately there's so much more to the hobby than that one company, and in the past 10-15 years the non-GW sector of the hobby has blossomed all the while, sadly, GW has begun to sour (not counting the Oldhammer trend, which is cold comfort for contemporary GW). I'm largely happy with the state of the hobby today, but I do lament the souring of GW and I express that sentiment in this thread.


TLDR: The qualities that make a miniature "good" or "bad" are timeless; GW miniatures strike me as perfunctory in their over-the-top aesthetic, as if the design process itself is just something the company would like to automate with some self-ante-upping formula so as to get that "annoying" part of product development out of the way; The miniature wargaming hobby is going to great new places but GW is not.

Is that too long of a TLDR?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 09, 2015, 02:54:24 PM
Nailed it! Thank you!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 09, 2015, 04:42:58 PM
So what we're saying is, AoS isn't actually bad as such, it's just very different. An acquired taste. Okay, it might be a financial and creative turkey numbers-wise, but clearly some people like it. That's cool.

Now I confess, the Warhammer world lost me a long time ago, so it's neither here nor there to me what they do with it from a gaming perspective. I wish they still made models I was tempted to buy, so I'm a tad disappointed by that. But from what I've read, the real bile is reserved for the fact that GW didn't just introduce a new game, or change the old game, they salted the bloody earth so old Warhammer had no chance to grow any more, certainly not under the GW banner.

For Oldhammerers this is largely irrelevant since they dwell in the Golden Age anyway and time shall not touch it (unlike us). But for those who defended GW for so long against the naysayers, those who gave of their time and (lots of) cash for their ever-more expensive stuff out of extreme brand loyalty ... in the blink of an eye they went from being immersed in their own very rewarding world, to being a complete irrelevance ... along with the Oldhammerers.

It's not like GW even mothballed the Warhammer world, or sold it to another company so they could nurture it, they literally destroyed it (bizarrely, just after they renamed all their stores 'Warhammer', which I can't fathom at all). Why not keep it ticking over in the form of PDFs and fan-supported stuff in the background? Why did they have to take the nuclear option and destroy something so iconic, something that better people had been creating since before they were born? It's like someone seeing a work of art they know they're not talented enough to improve on or even match, so instead of just maintaining it or leaving it for others to admire, they decide to destroy it in a fit of envy, hoping people will forget it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on December 09, 2015, 04:57:00 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 06, 2015, 01:15:28 PM
Did I grow up? Well, if you ask my wife ..... but probably a little. Yet GW also grew down and became slightly puerile. The Oldhammer stuff remains as attractive to me as ever, because I enjoy what it is in itself, not just the memories it stirs in me.

I think the "we grew up but GW also grew down" idea really sums up my feelings on the GW design aesthetic. GW always had goofyness, but there was a slightly more grown up aspect to the fluff and the miniatures that is  gone.  GW has long since proved that you can get darker and more juvenile at the same time.

Looking back, there' really isn't a version of 40k rules that deeply appeals to me, but I find my self drawn most to the earlier miniatures. I've been collecting Squats even though by the time I joined 40k with the release of Even the plastic troopers that make up most of my IG army are pretty much the same design as metal Cadians and the tanks are virtually unchanged.

As for "Oldhammer" the rules don't appeal to me, but the aesthetic does.  My Kings of War army is mostly based around early 90's Warhammer and Battlemasters figures and Elbows' comparision between the two Chaos knights (I have several of the early styled examples in my force) perfectly illustrates the reason I find those figs to be preferrable, not to mention the cost difference.

I've really fallen for Kings of War.  Yes it's big, but coming from GW, that kind of ridiculously big game still appeals to me. Especially when KoW shows us that this kind of game can be fast-playing and reward tactics more than how much time you spent crafting your army list.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 05, 2015, 06:53:53 PM
Yes, they are an AoS faction: "The Stormcast Eternals". Basically Terminator-sized Fantasy not-Space Marines who are Sigmar's chosen eternal/immortal champions that he sends out on missions to fight the forces of evil and retreive magical macguffins. (Sigmar is the the humans' god BTW).

The Lord Relictor model is akin to a space Marine Chaplain in some ways, and they guard the souls of fallen Stormcast Eternals to ensure that they can be born again and return to the fight. They also act as priests of Sigmar.


No crossover into 40k, even though they do look like they belong there better. Their passing similarity to Space Marines is why they earned their nickname "Sigmarines", so you're not alone in making that connection.

Thanks for clearing that up.  The Sigmarines really look like a bad mix of space marines and a desire to compete with Warmachine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 09, 2015, 05:04:21 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 09, 2015, 04:42:58 PM
It's like someone seeing a work of art they know they're not talented enough to improve on or even match, so instead of just maintaining it or leaving it for others to admire, they decide to destroy it in a fit of envy, hoping people will forget it.

This sums it up my feelings on the Warhammer world nicely for me.

Why destroy something like a petulant child?

Oldhammer forever!
 :D



Whereas this sums up my thoughts on 40k pretty neatly...

Quote from: eilif on December 09, 2015, 04:57:00 PM
Looking back, there' really isn't a version of 40k rules that deeply appeals to me, but I find my self drawn most to the earlier miniatures.

Even now, I still have no preferred 40k 'rule set', using a mix of Necromunda and common sense with a bit of 'winging it' thrown in for good measure.
It was the early miniatures and general 'feel' of the game that appealed most.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 09, 2015, 06:04:07 PM
Quote from: eilif on December 09, 2015, 04:57:00 PM
I've really fallen for Kings of War.  Yes it's big, but coming from GW, that kind of ridiculously big game still appeals to me. Especially when KoW shows us that this kind of game can be fast-playing and reward tactics more than how much time you spent crafting your army list.

I think that amongst people who actually play games on a somewhat regular basis, KoW has proven to be quite popular. Amongst people who mostly just build lists and argue over rules, not so much. Therefore your comment here does sound familiar.

I have actually been very tempted to do huge fantasy armies in 15mm using the KoW ruleset... It's abstract enough that not being able to sculpt a potion onto your hero's belt isn't an issue, and yet the big sweep of the game would best suit the masses of troops that 15mm lets you field. Plus unit basing really helps.

Quote from: eilif on December 09, 2015, 04:57:00 PM
The Sigmarines really look like a bad mix of space marines and a desire to compete with Warmachine.
I have no doubt that such design similarities are hardly coincidental. Still, I don't blame them: other companies have copied them for years, so why not pinch a little bit of the WM aesthetic themselves?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 06:20:36 PM
I hate to say this Rhoderic, but I have addressed a lot of this already. It's worth me reaffirming that I am not defending GW entirely. I'm not prepared to do that. There are a lot of very valid points here. I was reacting to what seemed to me as Old stuff is better, everything new sucks, which seems to be an undercurrent that I'm seeing. It's bollocks. So much of the older miniatures may look "nice", but they might be cast badly, or they may just look quaint today. Whereas sure, these new models can look over the top, but many of them do look nice also. Now, it is perfectly possible to look through GW's range and pick eyesores, especially the most recent models. But all of the WHFB 8th Edition contemporary models are still used for the game, and I'd assert that these are as good as anything that came before them in terms of functional miniatures. Some considerably more than that. For me, even though it is a bit over the top, I find the current Krell model as one of my favourite models of all time, and it offers potential for all the various desires espoused, unless you dislike massive axes. Not sure how you could, but...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Dimreapa/99800207009_Krell360_zpsnjg7psxm.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Dimreapa/media/99800207009_Krell360_zpsnjg7psxm.jpg.html)

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 09, 2015, 02:44:58 PM
As far as I'm concerned, freehand is timeless and will never wane in relevance. To consistently preempt freehand painting by covering every surface in sculpted details is to preempt an elemental aspect of miniature painting. I'm not good at painting freehand and I rarely do it, but if a range of miniatures literally does not allow me to even try, then that is an undesirable feature of that range for me. Besides, there are times when a plain old block of colour does a miniature good.

Again, I'll make the same point. It is not incumbent of GW to produce models with some clear areas just so people can do freehand if they want to. Just because a miniature doesn't necessarily allow for this doesn't make it bad. I accept, a lot of GW's Age of Sigmar range are exceptionally cluttered, making it very difficult to add flourish, but they're still what I would call pretty models.

(http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac348/RackhamMiniatures/Griffins%20of%20Akkylannie/GriffinConscriptsBlister.jpg) (http://s914.photobucket.com/user/RackhamMiniatures/media/Griffins%20of%20Akkylannie/GriffinConscriptsBlister.jpg.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Dimreapa/grgm01_zpsrbzvglzy.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Dimreapa/media/grgm01_zpsrbzvglzy.jpg.html)

Here are some Rackham models. These have barely any room for Freehand, they have already embossed shields. So are these bad models because they lack these features? If that's a yes, we are going to have to disagree strongly, because for me, Rackham were one of the greatest contributors of miniature sculpt quality this industry has ever seen.

Don't get me wrong, I do accept that many of these models are very "busy". I personally do not like the Chaos or Sigmarine range enough to buy into them. But a lot of my friends like the models, and there is a lot to like.

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 09, 2015, 02:44:58 PM
I suppose what I'm trying to say with the word "perfunctory" is that many of GW's figures these days have a "forced" and uninspired quality to them. As if the underlying motivation for their conception is not the creative drive or the inspiration of GW's concept artists or sculptors, but something rather more cold, corporate and computational (alliteration not intended). The fact that the products happen to be wargaming miniatures and must therefore undergo a design process is more of an undesired but unavoidable factor in the business model, than a raison d'etre. The phrase "feed the machine!" really does reverberate in my mind.

Well I guess that's true, largely. I would assert it's not exclusive, and amidst the necessary corporate nonsense, there are certainly some gems. They've only got really bad for this very recently, a trend I hope they go back on, but I can't personally see it happening. I certainly agree that a lot of their new developments are uninspired. Not all, but certainly a lot of them. It's how I felt after the recent 40k Ork update, with that awful, awful, phoned in Codex and hugely uninspiring new range of miniatures that were very expensive for what they added to Orks, which is pretty much nothing. Again, do remember that I don't intend to fully defend GW. They are certainly at fault a lot of the time.

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 09, 2015, 02:44:58 PM
(And yeah, it's unfair to criticise a company for wanting to make money. But it's also unfair to criticise hobbyists for having some different imperative than conveniently being the magic ingredient in some company's money-making business model.)

Actually I disagree with your first point here. Needing to make money is not an excuse, justification or a "free win" card against criticism. Of course you can criticise a corporate company. The "they're a business" platitude barely handwaves any criticism, not that many GW White Knights have got that memo, but still.

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 09, 2015, 02:44:58 PM
Personally I'm not seeing any nostalgia jingoism, and I'm the same age group as you. The hobby wasn't better in the past -  to me, it's better today than ever before. But GW was better in the past, in most ways save a few, such as technical expertise in plastic miniatures production (just the technical expertise, mind, not the aesthetic design). Fortunately there's so much more to the hobby than that one company, and in the past 10-15 years the non-GW sector of the hobby has blossomed all the while, sadly, GW has begun to sour (not counting the Oldhammer trend, which is cold comfort for contemporary GW). I'm largely happy with the state of the hobby today, but I do lament the souring of GW and I express that sentiment in this thread.

Sadly too many people in the industry are barely even aware that there's anything else. However, many of these alternatives have their own crosses to bear, and very few of them are accessible to new "Sick of GW" pilgrims.

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 09, 2015, 02:44:58 PM
TLDR: The qualities that make a miniature "good" or "bad" are timeless; GW miniatures strike me as perfunctory in their over-the-top aesthetic, as if the design process itself is just something the company would like to automate with some self-ante-upping formula so as to get that "annoying" part of product development out of the way; The miniature wargaming hobby is going to great new places but GW is not.

Good and bad can be timeless. They can also not be. I thought the Playstation game Driver had stunning visuals and gameplay. These days, all I can see are pixels. Context is key here. If you go into GW expecting high art principles, you are going to be disappointed. But the same is true of going to the Cinema and watching 300 in the hope of learning about the battle of Thermopylae. This goes back to my comment earlier. Not everybody expects high art principles in every situation, or even any. I know that Age of Sigmar miniatures are over-cluttered, but part of me likes that. It's a totally valid attitude to take.

Sure, there are valid criticisms to this, but don't dismiss people who like it. That's just infuriating.

Also, sure, a few companies are taking miniature production into new arenas, but there are a lot of stinkers in this industry that don't get criticism for it, mostly because they're not GW. Sure, they don't have GW's price tag, but there's still work to be done across the industry. Not everyone is on the same page though, and that's why I like that this industry caters for everyone: the people who like models cheap, the people who like models that are like a crazed CG-fest blockbuster, and those who want something more refined and are willing to pay for it. This industry as a whole caters for all sorts, and what is wrong with that?

Nothing.


Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 09, 2015, 02:13:03 PM
So actually Little Timmy wouldn't be playing Joe Noobstomper as everyone knows Joe is a jerk. Instead he would be playing in a scenario driven game with Big Bobby... and having a lot of fun.

And as I said before... soooo much mis-information and just plain ignorance about how this game is played.

So Ray has railed against misinformation and not fixed the problem by reducing it.

Ray is actually wrong about much of the details. There is no limit up or down on the models you use. The rules say you can use your collection. There is no imperative for your opponent to match you in number of warscolls. In fact, they could deploy one, and you could put your entire model collection on the table, and the only proviso stopping you is whether or not they fit, and if they don't, they can be put in reserve.

There is some confusion over the models listed, technically, Modhail is right, it's one warscroll, made up of multiple units. It's a formation of warscrolls, and there is little clarification over whether it's simply a warscroll compilation, or a warscroll in its own right. This ruleset is very good at shrugging its shoulders with regards to any conception of balance, fairness, or understanding.

This game relies far too much on the gaming group that plays it. In ideal terms, Ray is sort of right, but the fact is, this is a bit like those folks over at the Conclave who go on about how Inquisitor is supposed to be played. All flawed games have a fanbase who enforce how it is supposed to be played, and by that they mean, if people don't the flawed and broken ruleset falls under its own weight.

So indeed, there is much ignorance about how Age of Sigmar is played, and that's just the people who play it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 09, 2015, 06:52:11 PM
Krell is the last mini I bought from GW (excluding Space Hulk). It was finecast and had a problem with bubbles, which didn't really bother me as it just added to the undeadness of it. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 09, 2015, 07:24:16 PM
There are elements of the Rackham aesthetic that aren't my cup of tea, but those top three figures are quite to my liking, actually. I was talking earlier about "OTT done right" and those figures are along that general line. I did mention that many of the boutique games are good examples of OTT done right. Confrontation (or whatever the Rackham fantasy game was called) is pretty much the progenitor of the boutique game subgenre (although, like Infinity and Malifaux, it may have kind of outgrown the "boutique" status toward the end, but obviously that didn't affect the aesthetic). Incidentally, I think there is sufficient capacity for some moderate amount of freehand painting on those three figures. Maybe a starfield and/or a crenellated border on each of the loincloths, or a bit of subtle scrollwork in a lighter/darker silver colour on some of the larger armour plates, or a small symbol on each of the forehead protector / helmet crest things. When I say "sufficient capacity", I don't only mean it in the sense of literally having enough surface area for it, but also in the sense that they can "absorb" some additional flourishes in painting without becoming "over-saturated" with clutter.

In respect to the final Rackham figure, I'm neutral. I bear it no ill will. As for the Krell figure, let's say I like 90% of it on the premise that it's supposed to be a very special, very iconic, very "heroic" character. I might feel the urge to remove the detail on the axe haft (that's part of the 10% I don't like) and compensate with a nice Gary Chalk-esque freehand design on the cloak - it practically begs for it!

As for "old stuff is better, everything new sucks", that's certainly not my standpoint. GW does get much more wrong than it gets right these days IMO, but fortunately that's just GW. There is a lot of new good stuff coming from elsewhere. I'm really looking forward to the Westfalia Miniatures fantasy range, for instance. The samples I have are exquisite. They are more "middle of the road" in the sense of not being OTT (and not trying to be OTT), but they are simply excellent craftsmanship. They would have been excellent craftsmanship 30 years ago, and I have no doubt they will continue to be excellent craftsmanship 30 years from now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 09, 2015, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 06:20:36 PM
Ray is sort of right

Thank you...  ;)

Generally, what I have found is that folks who want AoS to be some sort of "new warhammer" don't like the rules, because they want to put a square peg (large army) into a round hole (a skirmish game). So while, yes, you can use the games for large battles, they really aren't appropriate unless there is some "greater good" such as an objective (other than to destroy the other army). That is why this group complain about the simplicity of the rules, the lack of a points system, the seeming ability to match a single unit against a entire army if you choose, etc. Unfortunately, AoS is a scenario/narrative driven skirmish game and the folks who want it to be anything other than that will find only disappointment. Like many of the people posting here...

Lots of folks have read the free 4 page rules and yes you can interpret them anyway you want, however, you do so without context, and context makes all the difference:

From the book "Age of Sigmar" concerning the rules, page 120:

Quote
This volume provides you with the core rules with which to play your Warhammer: Age of Sigmar games. With these rules you can pit any army against any other in whatever scenario you choose.... These pages intertwine exciting narrative with battleplans and Time of War rules which allow you to lead your armies through every vicious clash and bloody slaughter first-hand.

It then goes on to explain that Battleplans are instructions on "how you play the game", (i.e., scenarios), and goes on to say, page 121:

Quote
... For example, a battleplan may present a heroic breakthrough, where one army punches straight through the lines of another reach a vital objective.

It also explains that you can do this with what-ever Armies you want, but basically says, read the battleplan (scenario) and use the rules. 

There are plenty of BatReps posted by folks who play AoS as it should be played, that is, as a skirmish game. If you read these BatReps you will see that there is always an objective, always narrative... because it is an objective based skirmish game. That is why you find scenarios to play in the basic starter box, the books and battletomes.

The game is meant to be balanced via the scenarios and I would imagine anyone who gets a good grip on how the scenarios play out will be easily able to adjust what ever is necessary to bring an interesting and fun experience to the table top. And that is why folks like Joe Noobstomper, who already slashed and burned his way through Warhammer, probably won't find anyone to play with him.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 09, 2015, 10:12:48 PM
Well, I've been reading that 1d4chan article on Mat(t?) Ward and have a newfound appreciation for the past 10+ years I've spent away from the GW side of the hobby. Frankly, GW and the "GW hobby community" deserve each other... :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 09, 2015, 10:55:41 PM
What you reference Ray, isn't strictly context. Because the context is whatever the player wants, and it kind of has to be, because the responsibility of sorting everything out is down to them, such as outsourcing these mystical battleplans. I.e. scenarios that any other rulebook with a fucking points system has as well.

Age of Sigmar is narrative driven in the same way as any other Game. You figure out why you're playing it. GW offers no help with this, no options, no modifiers to scenarios, they just throw out a few scenarios that may have a "story" behind them, but they add nothing to the game that is played, and they're mostly similar to scenarios in previous rulesets that weren't "narrative driven". Nor, indeed, is 40k a "narrative wargame", and certainly no more so than a game of snakes and ladders.

Also, I hated WHFB. So you can keep trying to put out that broken record (which hasn't addressed a single point in this entire thread) if you like, but it has sod all to do with anything I've said. I just expected a complete game, and got an incomplete shrug. Fun it may be? Good it isn't. But nor was WHFB, so it wasn't so much an improvement as a minor step to the left.

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 09, 2015, 10:12:48 PM
Well, I've been reading that 1d4chan article on Mat(t?) Ward and have a newfound appreciation for the past 10+ years I've spent away from the GW side of the hobby. Frankly, GW and the "GW hobby community" deserve each other... :)

I agree. But their grievances are justified.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 10, 2015, 12:04:54 AM
Quote from: Scurv on December 09, 2015, 11:07:22 PM
I actually agree with the ragers as well. Dont piss all over the fluff smash it up and then re-write a crappier version, compliment it.

The fluff was one of the last shining gems in the GW crown. Until it seems it too was smeared in feces and thrown against the wall of the minimum wage rules writing cubicle.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 10, 2015, 02:09:43 AM
The chapter-specific shoulder pads are out already, and they ain't forgeworld!

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Knight-Excelsior-Upgrades
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Celestial-Warbringers-Upgrades

I have to admit, though, those excelsior shields would fit better with my elfy-robot thoughts than the standard HAMMERHAMMERHAMMER theme. I wonder if bits sellers can get the sets?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 10, 2015, 04:39:12 AM
I heavily expect you'll see a ton of those bits end up on space marines, particularly the shoulder paldrons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 10, 2015, 01:52:49 PM
Quote from: Vermis on December 10, 2015, 02:09:43 AM
The chapter-specific shoulder pads are out already, and they ain't forgeworld!

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Knight-Excelsior-Upgrades
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Celestial-Warbringers-Upgrades

I have to admit, though, those excelsior shields would fit better with my elfy-robot thoughts than the standard HAMMERHAMMERHAMMER theme. I wonder if bits sellers can get the sets?

The sunburst eclipse is much cooler than the electric hammer (and somewhat cooler than the twin-tailed comet), I agree. More "celestial mystery", less "ka-thunk!" :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on December 11, 2015, 03:51:22 PM
@scurv

I liked your comment on the implications of computer modelling in sculpting.  While it opens possibilities for greater detail there is certainly something missing.  Traditional sculptors knew how to say more with less.  For the purposes of economy we could consider gesture drawings which in a few lines capture the essence of a pose. Gew-gaws don't complete sculpts or bring anything to the model.  They are a crutch to fill empty spaces or models that just weren't that interesting to begin with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 11, 2015, 05:32:52 PM
Quote from: horridperson on December 11, 2015, 03:51:22 PM
Gew-gaws don't complete sculpts or bring anything to the model.  They are a crutch to fill empty spaces or models that just weren't that interesting to begin with.

Oh yes.

(BTW, found the bits, but as with most things from bits sellers, they're out of stock.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 11, 2015, 05:57:43 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 09, 2015, 06:28:23 PM
It's like someone seeing a work of art they know they're not talented enough to improve on or even match, so instead of just maintaining it or leaving it for others to admire, they decide to destroy it in a fit of envy, hoping people will forget it.

You just summed up the taggers I have graffiti wars with perfectly Cubs.

and getting back on track the new models are too busy. Makes them too difficult to paint and looks pants. Why is it so? Well I suspect is the teaching of 3d sculpting has a lot to answer for in this department.

Back in the day if you wanted to be an artist or sculptor you got some sort of education in art as part of learning your craft. One of the things they taught was composition. Designing things in such a way as to  be pleasing to the eye.

Now it is very different. From first hand experience I can assure you many 3d people have zero knowledge of the craft of making art. Their 3d knowledge is all from a technical direction (which is understandable as many of the programs are harder to fly than a NASA space shuttle simulator, I have done both so trust me on this one) due to this omission in their education they lack core fundamentals like anatomy, composition, colour theory etc etc.

So while they can construct amazing things due to their tech side learning their final product is so often less than pleasing to the eye due to a rank deficiency of artistic fundamentals.

The very best 3d artists are a rare breed that have a foot in both camps. They know art and also can work the program to make it happen.

A stupidly good example of awesome technical 3d ability combined with zero art smarts are the transformers movies. The robots are mostly a confusing blur of whirling and shifting things and most of the fight scenes look like they filmed scrap metal jumbling about in a clothes dryer. They are so stupidly busy that any interesting individual detail is lost in a maelstrom of general OTT detail





Well now we've gone full circle, i'm sure I said the same thing about a hundred pages back ;D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 12, 2015, 06:39:42 AM
Quote from: nic-e on December 11, 2015, 05:57:43 PM
Well now we've gone full circle, i'm sure I said the same thing about a hundred pages back ;D



Its Christmas Season, repeats are compulsory, at least here in the UK... ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on December 12, 2015, 05:14:06 PM
Cor blimey Mary Poppins I can remember when citadel miniatures were tuppence a bag.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on December 12, 2015, 08:58:55 PM
Must say I'm rather impressed with the new Gaunt Summoner:

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070201014_GauntSommoner01.jpg)

Great sculpt with nice detailing and the focus clearly is on HIM and not on some stupid oversized mount or vehicle. And really Tzeentchian too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 12, 2015, 09:27:08 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on December 12, 2015, 08:58:55 PM
Must say I'm rather impressed with the new Gaunt Summoner:

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070201014_GauntSommoner01.jpg)

Great sculpt with nice detailing and the focus clearly is on HIM and not on some stupid oversized mount or vehicle. And really Tzeentchian too.

Unfortunate there's nowhere to place him in a 40k force.

Tzeentch Daemonkin when?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 12, 2015, 09:46:54 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on December 12, 2015, 08:58:55 PM
Must say I'm rather impressed with the new Gaunt Summoner:

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070201014_GauntSommoner01.jpg)

Great sculpt with nice detailing and the focus clearly is on HIM and not on some stupid oversized mount or vehicle. And really Tzeentchian too.

Yes its very nice, but now I want it for tuppence a bag guv'nor
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 12, 2015, 09:47:22 PM
I like it too. even though it is a new daemon, you could use it as a regular tzeentch champ.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on December 12, 2015, 10:24:33 PM
I have to say Scurv, I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the shortcomings of a lot of 3d designed stuff.

You have written the post, that I was getting around to posting, so thank you for that :) Funnily enough It was the Transformers that I was going to use as an example of designs that are hard to read, that is what those chaos knights remind me of, they are all a blur visually.

@horridperson, agree with your comments on gesture line drawings...The thing is, these basics aren't hard to learn, harder to master, yes, but the basics can be found in books about drawing the figure in action- and of course drawing your design surely should be how you start...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 13, 2015, 12:07:50 AM
Quote from: Malebolgia on December 12, 2015, 08:58:55 PM
Must say I'm rather impressed with the new Gaunt Summoner:

(http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99070201014_GauntSommoner01.jpg)

Great sculpt with nice detailing and the focus clearly is on HIM and not on some stupid oversized mount or vehicle. And really Tzeentchian too.

Agreed - a fantastic model. For me it captures a lot of the old-school Chaos, it has a good compostition, and it looks nicely posed. It is £24 though, which is pretty damn steep, but I could probably justify that for a General model like this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 13, 2015, 03:52:14 AM
Agreed it is nice; old school, cool, and - dare I say - not even too obscenely expensive?

But what's the point if Warhammer is dead. If 6th or 7th were still live, this would be a must-buy; for AoS, what's the point? None, I say.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 13, 2015, 04:02:38 PM
Link to interview with Rick Priestley about GW (http://unpluggedgames.co.uk/features/blood-dice-and-darkness-how-warhammer-defined-gaming-for-a-generation/)

Quote from: Rick Priestley
It’s a game with a future, which I don’t think 40K is.

Rick seems to confirm a lot of the stuff people suspected about GW's operating practices through the article.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Redmao on December 13, 2015, 06:18:16 PM
Quote
“The studio, the creative part of Games Workshop, had always been kept apart from the sales part of it. One thing Bryan said was that if the sales people got to be in charge of the studio, it would destroy the studio, and that’s exactly what happened.”
Sadly, it's a reality that affects a lot of entertainment industries these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 13, 2015, 06:26:49 PM
Quote from: Redmao on December 13, 2015, 06:18:16 PM
Sadly, it's a reality that affects a lot of entertainment industries these days.

"Let's remake Point Break!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cherno on December 13, 2015, 06:56:43 PM
The gaunt guy reminds me of the Mouth of Sauron from Peter Jackson's LOTR films or maybe something from Benicio Del Toro (Pan's Labyrinth).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 13, 2015, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: Cherno on December 13, 2015, 06:56:43 PM
The gaunt guy reminds me of the Mouth of Sauron from Peter Jackson's LOTR films or maybe something from Benicio Del Toro (Pan's Labyrinth).

Seconded.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 13, 2015, 08:09:27 PM
It looks somewhat Hellraiser-ish to me (though I can see Del Toro's Pale Man in there too).

It is a nice model. Pricey, though. And I'm always keener on painting an evil sorcerer's wretched goblin henchmen than the man himself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 13, 2015, 10:37:34 PM
Quote from: grant on December 13, 2015, 03:52:14 AM
Agreed it is nice; old school, cool, and - dare I say - not even too obscenely expensive?

But what's the point if Warhammer is dead. If 6th or 7th were still live, this would be a must-buy; for AoS, what's the point? None, I say.

And I say a game is only dead when people stop playing it, making and painting models for it, and discussing it. But then, I still like and enjoy (and play) a number of older "dead" GW games. :P


Quote from: nullBolt on December 13, 2015, 04:02:38 PM
Link to interview with Rick Priestley about GW (http://unpluggedgames.co.uk/features/blood-dice-and-darkness-how-warhammer-defined-gaming-for-a-generation/)

Rick seems to confirm a lot of the stuff people suspected about GW's operating practices through the article.

It actually surprised me a little that Rick's comments and views in that article (even his take on Marines, and on over-fussy/over-sized model kits) seem to be rather in line with my own.

Also, what's the bet that slight increase in sales GW saw is down to the launch of the AoS starter set (thier starter boxes are always decent and always popular), combined with summer rush of players trying to complete their WHFB projects once they heard the Old World was being axed?


Edit: Aaaand we're at 300 pages!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 13, 2015, 11:39:45 PM
The sales rush would be a couple of things...

1) Launch of AOS
2) Fear of discontinued WHFB
3) Launch of Betrayal at Calth
4) Early Christmas shopping

And when your sales are trending downward it's always easy to see a rise.  lol  I'm sitting here, every day glancing at my BoC set and trying to decide how best to use it or sell it.  Driving me a bit nuts. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 14, 2015, 03:02:58 AM
Quote from: Elbows on December 13, 2015, 11:39:45 PM
The sales rush would be a couple of things...

1) Launch of AOS
2) Fear of discontinued WHFB
3) Launch of Betrayal at Calth
4) Early Christmas shopping

Yup!

Quote from: Elbows on December 13, 2015, 11:39:45 PM
I'm sitting here, every day glancing at my BoC set and trying to decide how best to use it or sell it.  Driving me a bit nuts. 

Why not make just one squad (ML, bolters, Plasmagun, Serg with Combi Melta) and see how you feel? Even if you don't want to play 30k, or 40k, you might still want to use a different ruleset and recreate some early-days stuff in the RT style. I've people use all sort of different rulesets for exactly that here on LAF, and I think that Mk4 Crimson Fists would look super-spiffy. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 14, 2015, 09:43:39 AM
Quote from: Elbows on December 13, 2015, 11:39:45 PM
The sales rush would be a couple of things...

1) Launch of AOS
2) Fear of discontinued WHFB
3) Launch of Betrayal at Calth
4) Early Christmas shopping


Fair play, I saw the box set in Firestorm the other day and if Space Marines were my thing, I'd be all over that. Lovely models, good price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 14, 2015, 12:48:07 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 13, 2015, 11:39:45 PM
The sales rush would be a couple of things...

1) Launch of AOS
2) Fear of discontinued WHFB
3) Launch of Betrayal at Calth
4) Early Christmas shopping

I agree with that.

I don't think folks should understate the role of AoS.

For my part, I began with the Starter Box and made 2 additional purchases thereafter. I determined that I would not go crazy buying stuff until I had actually painted up the stuff I bought. I have the shipping box that the Starter Set came with and I have put my new purchases in there with a pledge to not buy more if it would overflow. So far I have painted up 13 miniatures from the box and am working on a piece of terrain. Nevertheless, there was room for another order and I was looking at what I could get for Chaos for Christmas when they released the new Everchosen faction. That release set me back, thinking that I needed to slow down a bit and see where GW is going with Chaos. I like the Everchosen releases and plan to buy the Knights and the Battletome. But this release seriously changed my view on what I may be putting together for a Chaos army and I want to have the Battletome first to see how the Everchosen are organized and what forces you can bring with them.

Overall, due to the Everchosen release, I think more than ever it is important to take a more long term approach to the game if you like Chaos. Rumors are there will be more Chaos release to come next year (Tzeentch focused), along with Dwarves and possibly Elves.

While I'm not especially motivated by Dwarves and Elves I don't plan to be making huge armies, so I want to be sure the units I do buy are what I want... especially given how long they take to paint.

Now one can speculate that AoS is not doing well as much as one cares, but as a follower I am now and have been slowing my purchases to more closely match my painting. If you want to judge by stuff posted on the web, there are lots of folks who are still painting the stater box including staff at stores. These miniatures are a severe time consumer to complete if you want to have them come out better than standard table top because they are so large and you can actually see all that detail on the table top.

So no rush here, just steady progress... and purchases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on December 14, 2015, 01:51:36 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 14, 2015, 12:48:07 PM
I agree with that.

I don't think folks should understate the role of AoS.

For my part, I began with the Starter Box and made 2 additional purchases thereafter. I determined that I would not go crazy buying stuff until I had actually painted up the stuff I bought. I have the shipping box that the Starter Set came with and I have put my new purchases in there with a pledge to not buy more if it would overflow. So far I have painted up 13 miniatures from the box and am working on a piece of terrain. Nevertheless, there was room for another order and I was looking at what I could get for Chaos for Christmas when they released the new Everchosen faction. That release set me back, thinking that I needed to slow down a bit and see where GW is going with Chaos. I like the Everchosen releases and plan to buy the Knights and the Battletome. But this release seriously changed my view on what I may be putting together for a Chaos army and I want to have the Battletome first to see how the Everchosen are organized and what forces you can bring with them.

Overall, due to the Everchosen release, I think more than ever it is important to take a more long term approach to the game if you like Chaos. Rumors are there will be more Chaos release to come next year (Tzeentch focused), along with Dwarves and possibly Elves.

While I'm not especially motivated by Dwarves and Elves I don't plan to be making huge armies, so I want to be sure the units I do buy are what I want... especially given how long they take to paint.

Now one can speculate that AoS is not doing well as much as one cares, but as a follower I am now and have been slowing my purchases to more closely match my painting. If you want to judge by stuff posted on the web, there are lots of folks who are still painting the stater box including staff at stores. These miniatures are a severe time consumer to complete if you want to have them come out better than standard table top because they are so large and you can actually see all that detail on the table top.

So no rush here, just steady progress... and purchases.

But...that's not related to AOS. I think 99% of the people here behave this way when they start a new project/game :D :D :D
Yes...guilty....!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 14, 2015, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on December 14, 2015, 01:51:36 PM
But...that's not related to AOS. I think 99% of the people here behave this way when they start a new project/game :D :D :D
Yes...guilty....!

 lol

Actually, I think it is even more important with AoS for a couple of reasons.

First, of course, is the price. While folks like to moan and complain about the prices, fact is when you consider how much time you put into painting the minis (due to both size and detail) I think they are worth it. Nevertheless, it is not a game where you want to madly throw money at buying stuff you may never paint.

And Second, is because of the way the game is played. Note that there are 4 members of the Grand Alliance; Chaos, Death, Destruction and Order. Under each of these major groupings are factions, but overall when you play, it is Chaos vs Death or Death vs Order; that is one Alliance vs the other. You can put together a Chaos Warband which includes any of the factions that belong to it, but generally, you shouldn't be mixing factions from different members of the Alliances. Thus, you can have units of Khorne, Everchosen, Skaven, etc. on the same side but not Dwarves. The big difference with the Everchosen release was a NEW faction... and that is why I want to take it easy for awhile, because I want to see what else may be coming soonish down the line.

BTW, rumor has it that the Beastmen are going to be discontinued altogether.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on December 14, 2015, 03:14:35 PM
With all respect I think you overestimate OAS.
GW haters may wish GW will go bust overnight, but wishfull thinking doesn't make it so.
Neither does it make OAS a succes, while it, by all accounts had a small surge of initial purchases, followed an almost complete collapse all around the world.

Sure, there are some enthousiast such as yourself and I do not begrudge you for that. Enjoy the games you want.

Quote
First, of course, is the price. While folks like to moan and complain about the prices, fact is when you consider how much time you put into painting the minis (due to both size and detail) I think they are worth it. Nevertheless, it is not a game where you want to madly throw money at buying stuff you may never paint.
I can't tell you what your money is worth or what to like. I will say I do not believe sensible buyers as you claim to be yourself  have been GW's target audience for a long while. They do go for the splurge sales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 14, 2015, 03:56:50 PM
Quote
“The studio, the creative part of Games Workshop, had always been kept apart from the sales part of it. One thing Bryan said was that if the sales people got to be in charge of the studio, it would destroy the studio, and that’s exactly what happened.”

(Quote taken from the Priestley interview)

That's kind of the same thing I was getting at. The "creative spark" behind the production of new GW miniatures (and probably rules publications) these days isn't a creative spark at all, but decrees and directives passed down from the sales department. It just feels to me like GW products are now coming from "somewhere else" than the enthusiastic, inspired, creative drive of "our own kind" (proper hobby folks).

Of course, I'm aware it's all shades of grey, really. Like Priestley says in that interview, the inception of Warhammer first came by top-down order of Bryan Ansell. Still, that was a much, much lighter shade of grey (Ansell being more of a "down in the trenches" style miniature gaming hobbyist himself, and the general idea of a massed battle fantasy ruleset being a naturally, self-evidently neat idea that many people in early 1980s GW were probably enthusiastic about - not just because there was money to be made from it but because they wanted to create). I just feel that at some point along the line, GW turned too dark a shade, and it's only been turning darker ever since.

In other news, reading that interview, I now know who to blame for the demise of the Specialist Games: the French, the Spanish and the Italians! :D  (I jest!)


Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 14, 2015, 02:51:11 PM
BTW, rumor has it that the Beastmen are going to be discontinued altogether.

I'd like more information about this rumour, if anyone has it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 14, 2015, 04:31:15 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 14, 2015, 12:48:07 PM
I don't think folks should understate the role of AoS.

Yes, buy is it a starter-box spike, or actual AoS sales, or something else (perhaps tangential to AoS)? It is extremely hard to tell, and I suspect that GW will be especially coy about it in their end-of-year report. All we do know is that there is a modest improvement in sales. Bolded words to indicate that we don't even know if GW actually made more or less money this year.


Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 14, 2015, 12:48:07 PM
[generally sensible comments on a measured buying vs painting pace]

I think this is a sensible approach in general though, and does go back to the model size and intricacy argument a bit.

Take myself as a glacially slow painter for example. I do try to be faster, but I'm just slow and hate cutting corners. I don't mind too much - I enjoy the process and it's not a race afterall.

However, what has really made it starkly clear to me is that all the useless thoughtless annoying detail that many models are festooned with nowadays just take forever to finish. It's on the model whether I like it or not, and so I have to deal with it - either scrape it off, fill it in, or cover it over, or paint it. If that level of unnecessary clutter just wasn't there, I'd have the choice - to add it, freehand it, or do nothing and leave the area plain (and in doing so, it helps make the model "mine").

Similarly is the number and fragility of parts models seem to come with increasingly. Every one of those parts is separate for a reason, and fully-assembling models means that you will not be able to paint plenty of areas properly. Every one of those parts has a mouldline to remove, an order in which to be assembled, and a location to be glued to. All that takes a lot of time compared to simpler models! If you make sub-assemblies, then each model turns into two or three "sub-models" that all take just as long to paint before more assembly at the end.

Now, don't get me wrong: I like multipart models. However, I don't find that many plastic miniatures are especially well-considered for the typical wargaming customer (er, hobbyist?). Too many parts, parts that are either way too big or too small, fiddly three-point joins, mouldlines in the worst places, etc.

The Malifaux plastics are just insane - I built and painted two nurses, and they are the width of a biro! Far too small, far to many parts, far too fiddly. Lovely models despite that, but I would never want to paint them again.

By comparison, the Malifaux metals had some rather goofy sculpting and a number of ill-fitting parts, but they were a lot simpler to assemble and a lot easier to paint. Intriguingly, when painted well, they look just as nice as the plastics (IMO).

For me, this is less a comparison of the models' material, and more a comparison of their complexity (and resulting cost increase). I confess, I enjoyed painting the metal models a lot more as a result, and made much faster progress than with my Warmachine, Infinity, or GW models. Nothing spurs you on like finishing models either!


Bringing this back to GW then, I do wonder if they can sustain enough customer interest (and therefore generate enough sales) from the gigantic and complex centrepiece models that seem to dominate their recent releases. Because the way they're going, they're leaving gaming with the models behind them in their rush to reinvent themselves as a producer of collectable models... And if they're not gaming with them, why would most people ever want to buy very many? It's why the games were developed in the first place!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 14, 2015, 04:43:16 PM
Regarding rumors of various things being discontinued.  While I suspect we'll see a heap of WHFB army units discontinued and maybe even a few races...I fully suspect it's all part of measured plan to re-introduce them in a year or two's time to garner more interest and bring up the occasional sales bump.

Consider, if you will, if GW suddenly released a list of Squats for 40K?  While a lot of nostalgic players no longer run 40K, if the sculpts were not atrocious (big "if") I think you'd see a small surge in "buy them while they're available!" kind of stuff. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 14, 2015, 05:06:44 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 13, 2015, 10:37:34 PM
Edit: Aaaand we're at 300 pages!  lol

Waheeey!  lol

Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 14, 2015, 02:51:11 PM
While folks like to moan and complain about the prices, fact is when you consider how much time you put into painting the minis (due to both size and detail) I think they are worth it.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by time relating to size and detail. Takes longer? Over quicker?

Quote from: The Voivod on December 14, 2015, 03:14:35 PM
GW haters may wish GW will go bust overnight, but wishfull thinking doesn't make it so.

Was it ever about wishing they'd go bust? About 'hating', even? They do a lot of stupid, gamer-unfriendly, sales-losing things, and I know there's a number of people who wish they'd go bust (fringe or not), but I think a lot of us would rather they just stop taking crazy pills.

I'm not angry...

(http://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Mfw-there-s-no-mega-venusaur-x-i-m-not-mad-i-m_e296e2_4834415.gif)

... I'm just disappointed.

Reading Rick's interview again. I knew the bit about Tom Kirby buying out the business, but thanks to a lot of movie repeats on TV recently, I realise who he reminds me of: Noah Vanderhoff. (http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0001922/)

Quote
Wayne, I used to be in meat packing. Lips and hooves. One day, I had a four-hour layover in Tulsa. These kids in the airport kept pumping quarters into a game called Pong. They must've gone through 50 bucks! I sat there watching and said, "Hell, I'm in the wrong business." Fifteen years later, I'm a millionaire.

Current GW games are what happens when Tom Kirby tries to rap.

Major Gilbear: heh! I even found the metal models difficult to assemble. Some of those Guild constructs had very fiddly connection points.

I haven't assembled any plastic Malifaux models yet, but I was given a few spare rail crew bits on the sprue. The thought of trying to keep some of those bits on the model, even with poly cement, fills me with dread. Heck, even the thought of trying not to lose them in the carpet.
And then another beef is that, apparently beginning with their plastics, their humans got a big dose of uncanny valley. The look well sculpted, realistic, truescale, but when you get down to the knees, the shins go shooting out about 1.5 to 2 times longer than they need to. (I mentioned that to the guy who gave me the rail crew bits - now he bkames me fir not being able to unsee it. :D )
That bit is not really anything to do with the medium; but overall, Wyrd seem to have taken the opportunity of remaking the range, to introduce some weird style changes and collector friendly/gamer unfriendly design elements. Much the same as GW. Though the thing may be, Wyrd didn't completely dump their popular game and setting, and introduce new, unstructured examples in the same process.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on December 14, 2015, 05:19:45 PM
Quote
Was it ever about wishing they'd go bust? About 'hating', even?
Not to me. I was merely taking two example I did not believe would happen, same as I do not believe OAS is a succes.
Maybe a bit too extreme an example.

The point was I do not think that wanting something to be true, doesn't make it true. Good or bad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 14, 2015, 05:37:24 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on December 14, 2015, 03:14:35 PM
GW haters may wish GW will go bust overnight, but wishfull thinking doesn't make it so.

Although to be fair, GW Upper Management and the "Design Team's" writers have been working on that for a number of years now, and may actually succeed. I mean, the writing has got so bad even Space Marine players have noticed.

I'm not a fan of the term "haters" in the same way as dismissing criticism as "negative", suggesting it's somehow automatically wrong by tone. If the so called "White Knights" (another pretty pointless extreme, although at least one with more people who fit into it) had any arguments that actually convincingly suggested the naysayers are wrong above "Well, at least the models are pretty", I'd be inclined to accept the negative connotations of such a name. But as AoS convincingly and undoubtedly showed that yes, the writing team are as fucking useless as we always said they were, I think the debate is done, and the remaining fans are just being stubborn. That's their perogative, but why they still act superior is beyond me. GW are a spent entity as far as a wargaming company. If you like ludicrously expensive CAD crack, then sure.

Age of Sigmar is not a good game. It's certainly fun. I do have a soft spot for it, but it is flawed in every respect as a rules system. And ultimately, as the Ante Upping bullshit has already started (Everchosen!) my predictions about the game being designed to give the Sales Team a stiffy, and shortly afterwards, power gamers, I can't see AoS turning out to be more successful than Warhammer. I think it has had limited appeal because of the initially free rules. Once we go back to paying £30 too much in order to use 1+ model/s from every fucking faction, AoS will deteriorate much quicker than WHFB did. At least that had a long established fanbase that stretched numerous generations.


As to the predictions of GW going bust? Well anyone who thinks it will be quick probably haven't taken enough things into account (primarily that Corporate Minions do at least know how to make a shit year look like an okay one), but GW are certainly failing. At this point, they've cut virtually everything that isn't instantly profitable, they're removing anything that is an IP hazard, they've increased sculpt quality, and they've addressed everything aside of anything they're being criticised for, and who'd have thunk it, sales are still dropping.

I don't expect GW to go out of business any time soon, but they'd better up their game if they plan to be here in a decade, because at this rate they have no chance. After 8th Edition Fantasy happened, I always thought WHFB players would never notice writing bad enough to make them quit arrogantly going on about how awesome their game was. Then AoS happened...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 14, 2015, 05:42:56 PM
Quote from: Vermis on December 14, 2015, 05:06:44 PM
Major Gilbear: heh! I even found the metal models difficult to assemble. Some of those Guild constructs had very fiddly connection points.

True, plenty of the metal models were bastards to build; however I have found the incidence of this to have increased very sharply with the new plastics. I have the new Guild Guard - not only are they built from a shower of inhaleably-small pieces, it took me thirty minutes to work out how to assemble two models!  o_o

Quote from: Vermis on December 14, 2015, 05:06:44 PM
I haven't assembled any plastic Malifaux models yet, but I was given a few spare rail crew bits on the sprue. The thought of trying to keep some of those bits on the model, even with poly cement, fills me with dread. Heck, even the thought of trying not to lose them in the carpet.

I've had a few bits arrive pre-broken on the sprue. Same with a fair few recent GW models too.  :?

Quote from: Vermis on December 14, 2015, 05:06:44 PM
And then another beef is that, apparently beginning with their plastics, their humans got a big dose of uncanny valley. The look well sculpted, realistic, truescale, but when you get down to the knees, the shins go shooting out about 1.5 to 2 times longer than they need to. (I mentioned that to the guy who gave me the rail crew bits - now he bkames me fir not being able to unsee it. :D )

I find the faces too small to hold enough detail for them to have any character. Loooong limbs is a feature of their new art style though.

Quote from: Vermis on December 14, 2015, 05:06:44 PM
That bit is not really anything to do with the medium; but overall, Wyrd seem to have taken the opportunity of remaking the range, to introduce some weird style changes and collector friendly/gamer unfriendly design elements. Much the same as GW. Though the thing may be, Wyrd didn't completely dump their popular game and setting, and introduce new, unstructured examples in the same process.

Wyrd still lost plenty of people from the revamp of the artistic styling, as well as from the rules changes. However, the game was a good game with an interesting setting, plenty of narrative scenarios, and lots of fun characters - all of which still remain in the new edition.

So, maybe, it was making a good game that resulted in Wyrd's second edition of Malifaux becoming wildly more popular. Also, my £50 buys me a decent crew that's got lots to keep me busy - when I get bored I can get a different crew, and it's not a big deal. GW expects you to spend that on one model/unit, and you still need to spend a fair bit more to actually play a real game with them. That's a big difference, especially when you compare the games as well.

Hmmm...
(https://www.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/blogs/102420/2012/08/103241-100705.jpeg)


Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 14, 2015, 05:37:24 PM
I mean, the writing has got so bad even Space Marine players have noticed.

(https://i.imgflip.com/vr80w.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 14, 2015, 11:32:35 PM
I think we're mostly in agreement...we'd like to see GW become an option again.  As a gamer, when I see a new company/line of products/terrain etc. it falls into one of several categories:

-Something you must have solely based on cool factor, uses be damned.
-Something you want and can use in your current games.
-Something that doesn't interest you.

A lot of stuff falls into the first two categories but then is limited by any number of factors: wrong scale, obscene price, wrong material, untrustworthy company, etc.

As gamers, we all love choices.  When I need figures I know I tend to go to a handful of preferred companies.  We'd all love for GW to be sane and competitive again, provide an actual interesting, obtainable product which we could enjoy.  There are loads of cool 40K and Fantasy figures I could find uses for outside of the GW gaming web...but their prices absolutely prohibit that (and the way they do business, unable to buy simply at online retailers, etc.).  Now, as a gamer who doesn't benefit from almost any GW product, would I be upset if they did tank?  No.  I'd be rather indifferent, beyond a small concern for a gaming company going under.

If GW fails it will have nothing to do with tragic events...but will be solely a result of their own decisions.  We'd prefer them to stop making those decisions and gain more business, but we don't make those decisions. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on December 15, 2015, 06:58:44 AM
Malifaux... There should be a special kind of hell for the designers of the malifaux plastics. A place where they have to put together those damned kits all day long... And trying to fit them on the bases.

Back on topic. My understandig is that the tools for plastic stuff is expensive. Could this be a reason (or on of the reasons) for the high prices of the new kits? That they don't expect to sell that much of them?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 15, 2015, 07:09:17 AM
When comparing to other plastic model kit/miniature manufacturers? No, not by a looong stretch.
Although GW is known for ofsetting loss of sales with price hikes (leading to further loss of sales, leading to further price hikes, etc...) So in a way you're not just paying for your own kit, but also for the kit(s) someone else didn't buy...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: richstrach on December 15, 2015, 12:30:32 PM
BoLS has got some interesting if unsubstantiated rumours about the Specialist Games dept up:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/12/gw-rumors-specialist-games-begins.html:

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 15, 2015, 01:08:04 PM
So. basically. probably.maybe

they will indeed expand the list of limited edition sets they can re-release from just Space Hulk to enclude other specialist games to increase the number of intervening years between each limited edition re-release. um.

Maybe they will eventually re-incarnate the WFB boxed starter sets as a specialist games - with specialist period correct "not destroyed yet by the end times" terrain pieces with specific gaming rules attached accordingly?

Makes me wonder how many years from now will AOS or 40K be added to the specialist games lists?

As the main core business is seemingly  moved completely towards being a producer of high quality collectibles, rather than the production of any games to play with them?

I can hear the little boys of the future GW hobby direction already

 "what play games with my GW collectibles? Are you mad! they are special and cost to much money to bash against each other like the latest rules edition says!"

and the classic

"no, no, my GW hobby collectibles are to expensive/valuable to actually paint, that might devalue them to much, and anyway they are supposed to be kept and displayed still on sprue sealed in the original packaging..."



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 15, 2015, 01:52:55 PM
I like the title of the article. No trace of irony.

Still sceptical about how Mordheim's background will fit into GW's grand plan.

Pfft. What am I saying? GW's grand plan is "mo' minis, mo' minis, mo' monies".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 01:59:19 PM
If that anonymous source is credible, then I think it's a step in the right direction. Staggered releases for at least four games in rotation (however slow-paced) would suggest something other than "one-off" minigames a la Dreadfleet, even if said releases will apparently come in "faction kit" format. Necromunda, Mordheim and Battlefleet Gothic are all games I'm interested in. BloodBowl not so much (and I've got a few BB teams already, which I never use), but three out of four is good.

That's not to say the products are guaranteed to be satisfactory to me. The figures may turn out to be uninspired, over-designed hulks of skulls and spikes. The kits may just be too damn expensive, especially if they also come with rulebooks or 2D printed card terrain/gameboards. I don't need newly designed GW rules (I won't outright dismiss the thought of playing new official editions of Necromunda, Mordheim or Battlefleet Gothic, but at the very least I'd be extremely apprehensive) and 2D terrain is worthless to me. But for now, if the source is credible, the first step isn't nearly as bad as it could have been.

I only wonder how to interpret the following:

Quote
This initial set will be released in sequence and each will get a regular seasonal release slot in future years.

Does that mean one release slot per year per game, or one release slot per season per game? Is a season a quarter of a year or half of a year?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 02:03:46 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 14, 2015, 11:32:35 PM
I think we're mostly in agreement...

Kinda common in echo chambers.  ;)

Quote from: Modhail on December 15, 2015, 07:09:17 AM
When comparing to other plastic model kit/miniature manufacturers? No, not by a looong stretch.
Although GW is known for ofsetting loss of sales with price hikes (leading to further loss of sales, leading to further price hikes, etc...) So in a way you're not just paying for your own kit, but also for the kit(s) someone else didn't buy...

 ???  Which is why GW stock is up on the year 25% I gather.

Anyway, so everyone was screaming how shit GW resin was and they didn't listen to their detractors and changed to hard plastic,  ::) which does indeed require a major investment.

The change to hard plastic was also another reason why I took another look at GW and decided to jump into AoS. I've tried a number of resin products from other companies and yes they definitely have lots of details, but in general, I didn't like working with the stuff, not near as flexible as metal or plastic. You got all these warnings about breathing in the crap to boot. As more things that use resin hit the overall market, such as a building material, resin is going to gain ever increasing attention as a respiratory health hazard. An obvious winner was the hard plastic 30K box.

When you are talking economies of scale, metal and resin just don't stand up to hard plastic. If you look at probably one of my favorite manufacturers, Perry, even they are getting pretty relentless at releasing plastic miniatures. Go to their home page and what do you see? An ACW plastic starter box for 95 GBP... great value as are most plastic starter boxes including GW.

So basically you are starting to see a clear division in manufacturers. On the one hand you have those folks who have the financial clout to sell hard plastics and on the other you have, well... everybody else. If you look at Hasselfree miniatures, who sell great minis, they are and have been for quite some time moving to resin... yuck.

As for GW, I think we are going to know a lot more about what is coming fantasy wise when they release the Dwarves. If the new Dwarves out dwarf the old dwarfs, then I think you can pretty much expect that the entire fantasy line is going to be reworked. At this point they can't really dump them from the catalog because if they did, they just wouldn't have enough stuff to sell. But given the pace of the last 6 months I think you are going to see a relentless release schedule as the company eventually replaces everything with hard plastic.

For me... exciting days ahead.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 15, 2015, 02:18:45 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 02:03:46 PM

Anyway, so everyone was screaming how shit GW resin was and they didn't listen to their detractors and changed to hard plastic,  ::) which does indeed require a major investment.


To be fair, they were using hard plastic in the first place and decided to switch to Failcast, which I imagine was for cost reasons.
It turned out to be a disaster and they switched back.

Hardly a major investment, just a failed attempt at cutting costs.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 15, 2015, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 15, 2015, 01:08:04 PM
Maybe they will eventually re-incarnate the WFB boxed starter sets as a specialist games - with specialist period correct "not destroyed yet by the end times" terrain pieces with specific gaming rules attached accordingly?

Makes me wonder how many years from now will AOS or 40K be added to the specialist games lists?

I don't think WHFB or 40K will ever be added to the SG list, at least not in any recognisable sense.

If they were ever to go OOP and be released as a game-in-a-box with maybe a supplement or two, I would expect them to be in the style of FFG's "Chaos in the Old World" or their own defunct "Battle of Five Armies". I say this because I cannot see how you'd play mass battles games without masses of miniatures that will all fit into one box otherwise!

Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 15, 2015, 01:08:04 PM
and the classic

"no, no, my GW hobby collectibles are to expensive/valuable to actually paint, that might devalue them to much, and anyway they are supposed to be kept and displayed still on sprue sealed in the original packaging..."

Probably closer to the truth that you might imagine...

I know of people who buy a regular codex as well as the limited edition version just to avoid spoiling or over-handling the limited version. Likewise those that buy two or more of the LE models so that can paint one and keep the other Mint In Box.

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 01:59:19 PM
Quote
This initial set will be released in sequence and each will get a regular seasonal release slot in future years.
Does that mean one release slot per year per game, or one release slot per season per game? Is a season a quarter of a year or half of a year?

I read that mean one game release every four years in the run-up to Christmas. So expect one Necromunda release (as a one-off) every four years basically.

Normally though, "Seasonal" means four per year. In TV-show land however, the term means one "Season" per year.  o_o

Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 02:03:46 PM
Anyway, so everyone was screaming how shit GW resin was and they didn't listen to their detractors and changed to hard plastic,  ::) which does indeed require a major investment.

Failcast was indeed shit. And I don't think GW ever intended it to be a material they'd use long-term. Rather, it was a short-term solution to cease metal model production until they could transition everything into plastic.

Thing is, they could hardly announce that they were releasing models in a substandard material at en enhanced price, and expect it to sell if they also announce in the same breath that everything will be in plastic eventually anyway. All that would happen otherwise is no/low sales and lots of people pestering about plastic release dates.

The other issue is that customers would suffer major sticker-shock if they just went from metal to plastic directly.

To "warm up" their customers to the plastic individual character price (customers who generally seemed desperate to avoid Failcast at all costs), they released popular models they knew would sell regardless (like SM characters) at the top price they could (£18 for a power-armoured librarian?), and in different formats (like the Reclusiam Command Squad) to test the market. After this, other releases followed as the original eye-watering price seemed to have been accepted by their customers, and thus paved their way.

Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 02:03:46 PM
The change to hard plastic was also another reason why I took another look at GW and decided to jump into AoS. I've tried a number of resin products from other companies and yes they definitely have lots of details, but in general, I didn't like working with the stuff, not near as flexible as metal or plastic. You got all these warnings about breathing in the crap to boot. As more things that use resin hit the overall market, such as a building material, resin is going to gain ever increasing attention as a respiratory health hazard. An obvious winner was the hard plastic 30K box.

Metal and plastic are also harmful if you breathe in the dust. It's just easier not to produce much/any fine enough with plastic models, although they probably will carry a similar warning in time.

Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 02:03:46 PM
When you are talking economies of scale, metal and resin just don't stand up to hard plastic. If you look at probably one of my favorite manufacturers, Perry, even they are getting pretty relentless at releasing plastic miniatures. Go to their home page and what do you see? An ACW plastic starter box for 95 GBP... great value as are most plastic starter boxes including GW.

Economies of scale require high-volume sales though.

Normally, high-volume sales are achieved through low/aggressively competitive pricing, and the manufacturers providing you with reasons to buy lots of said product.

This is the opposite of GW are seemingly working towards, which is why many of us are confused.

Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 02:03:46 PM
So basically you are starting to see a clear division in manufacturers. On the one hand you have those folks who have the financial clout to sell hard plastics and on the other you have, well... everybody else.

Somebody needs to tell Mantic!  :o


Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 02:03:46 PM
If you look at Hasselfree miniatures, who sell great minis, they are and have been for quite some time moving to resin... yuck.

Uh, is this true?

I know they often release resin versions for a short/limited time for those collectors and painters who prefer the stuff, but all their releases are still in metal. Not aware this has changed, but I'm prepared to be educated to the contrary!

Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 02:03:46 PM
As for GW, I think we are going to know a lot more about what is coming fantasy wise when they release the Dwarves. If the new Dwarves out dwarf the old dwarfs, then I think you can pretty much expect that the entire fantasy line is going to be reworked. At this point they can't really dump them from the catalog because if they did, they just wouldn't have enough stuff to sell. But given the pace of the last 6 months I think you are going to see a relentless release schedule as the company eventually replaces everything with hard plastic.

It's obvious that anything not already plastic will be dropped and re-done if they can. The only plastics I expect them to keep are those that are recent or that they are happy enough with (see: Skaven Plague Monks).

So I expect them to keep the last lot of plastic Dwarf releases (re-branding them as Duerdin or whatever they are now), whilst adding in the new Fire-Dwarfs as well. Old stuff not in plastic will probably be quietly dropped unless they have a backlog of Failcast lovely resin to shift.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 15, 2015, 02:52:10 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 02:03:46 PM
???  Which is why GW stock is up on the year 25% I gather.
That surprises me, seeing the previous years share plummit and profit warning. Where does the figure come from? (Not disbelieving you, just surprised.)

True, there is a divide between those companies that have the economy of scale to afford plastics and those who don't (And those who are half-assing it with the various flavours of "restic". Which in my eyes hase all the drawbacks of both resin and plastic but the advantages of neither...).
It doesn't mean plastic is inherently superior somehow. It's also about target market and the purpose of the model. A collecter will care less about fragility if the finished item is only stood in a display to look at and so would prefer resin for it's detail, whereas certain gamers don't care about detail/modelling and want their models as sturdy as possible and want plastic as it takes more abuse and paint doesn't chip as easily. (Really, I've once seen a Warhammer gamer just sweep his entire army into a plastic grocery bag!  :o)
And not all resin is the same, some are quite good (good detail and resilience at the same time) and fairly harmless, while others are nasty, useless crap that doesn't hold detail, are a bear to work with and shatter if you sneeze too close. The problem is that nobody specifically mentions the type/quality of resin they use, and a few bad experiences with the poor quality junk can make one wary of all resins.
Personally I generally prefer plastic and metal over resin, though for some models/quality of resin, I'll make an exception.

I feel the need to correct you on Hasslefree though, they aren't moving over to resin as you seem to imply, but taking two roads, both metal (for it's sturdiness and lower price) and resin (for it's excellent detail reproduction, but at higher fragility and price). Their gaol is to have (almost) every one of their minis available in both metal and resin, letting the customer choose. It's just that the last months/year or so, due to various reasons, their resin production has been vastly outpacing their metal production.

I'd like to see where GW are going with AoS beyond the "Sigmarines" and Khornies as well. I'm not anti-AoS per se (just anti-Nuked Old World, but these two separate things have somehow become the same in many folks eyes), but the factions and setting so far doesn't catch my interest. So, yeah, I'm curious how the other races will be updated and if one of those catches my fancy. Still won't use GW rules though, not my cuppa anymore.

I'm still most excited/apprehensive about the Specialist Games reboot though. I could be a hot mess, or a new golden age for GW, depending mostly on how they handle it.


Here's to bright futures and GW becoming a viable option for many gamers again. Let's hope GW co-operates.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 03:20:55 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 15, 2015, 02:42:44 PM
I read that mean one game release every four years in the run-up to Christmas. So expect one Necromunda release (as a one-off) every four years basically.

Personally I doubt the source meant "seasonal" in the sense of "the holiday season".

I'm wondering what a "release season" is to GW, as I've never (to my recollection) heard of GW speak of "seasons" in regard to release schedules before. I do suspect it's a quarter, though. Which still leaves me with the question of whether there will be one SG release per season (rotating between four games so as to make it one release for each of the games per year) or one release for each of the games per season.

The way I interpret the source's words, there will be "faction kits" as opposed to "full game in a box kits". At least, Necromunda will have "gang kits", which sounds to me like one gang per kit. One such kit per game per year does not sound right. Goliaths in 2016, Eschers in 2017, Delaques in 2018, Cawdors in 2019 and so on? Would people even buy into a game with a release schedule that slow? Does GW even plan that far ahead? On the other hand, one kit per game per quarter may be wishful thinking, as that would make 16 SG kits overall per year which is fairly intense. A Necromunda gang, a Mordheim warband, a Battlefleet Gothic fleet and a BloodBowl team all in the course of three months, then the same again in the next three months, and so on? That would assume GW means to put a lot of resources into the SGs which doesn't sound right either.

So, I'm confused.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 03:22:17 PM
Quote from: Modhail on December 15, 2015, 02:52:10 PM
That surprises me, seeing the previous years share plummit and profit warning. Where does the figure come from?

http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GAW:LN

Select 1Y to see the trend line. Current one year return 26.67%. P/E 15.5 (20 to 25 is market average)

Oh, and thanks concerning the explanation on Hasselfree Minis. Great minis but I haven't gotten any of their resin stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 15, 2015, 03:45:12 PM
Thanks, Ray.
Interesting to see the 5y graph as well. You can see the 3014 plummet after the profit warning and the 2011 post-LotR depth. On the general though, shares paint a more positive picture than appears from the customer end of business... Odd.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 15, 2015, 03:53:38 PM
Pretty sad to see no return of Warhammer Quest...and while I like the specialist games, I'm concerned that they're re-designing everything for a re-release.  This means there is a darn good chance the miniatures will be heinous (not that the original Necromunda figures were that good to start with!).  As long as they don't go overboard and ruin everything, I could be tempted by a new Necromunda.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 03:55:48 PM
I forgot to point out in my last post, the source does say...

Quote
Thus we will see very regular product releases for Specialist games throughout the year, but there may be long intervals in between releases for any one system.

...so assuming the information is credible, it's definitely not a case of only a single SG one-off per year, as there will be "releases throughout the year"

Come to think of it, "very regular product releases" does sound like that could be describing something like four kits each for four separate games per year.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 15, 2015, 04:02:01 PM
@ Rhoderic:

They can release different gangs in each year's box though (perhaps with a theme or centred on a narrative event), which means that on Year 4 they can return to the fist two antagonist Houses again. Supplements between the releases can expand the Houses in the boxed set and maybe introduce one of the Outlander factions as an Easter or summer expansion.

@ Elbows:

I love the original Necromunda model range!  lol

My only regret (then and now) is that it wasn't a bit bigger with more variation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 04:26:29 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 15, 2015, 04:02:01 PM
@ Rhoderic:

They can release different gangs in each year's box though (perhaps with a theme or centred on a narrative event), which means that on Year 4 they can return to the fist two antagonist Houses again. Supplements between the releases can expand the Houses in the boxed set and maybe introduce one of the Outlander factions as an Easter or summer expansion.

Thinking about it, I could easily live with what you describe (still assuming the figures will be to my liking and the prices acceptable). Two Necromunda gangs, two Mordheim warbands and two Battlefleet Gothic fleets in the course of one year would give me quite a lot to work with.

I'm just really afraid that now that my hopes are up, they'll be crushed once I see the actual figures. The worst-case scenario would be a Dreadfleet-style set-up where there are no "basic" gangers (or henchmen or spaceships) anymore and each figure is a very OTT, very "gimmicky" special character.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 15, 2015, 04:54:51 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 04:26:29 PM
The worst-case scenario would be a Dreadfleet-style set-up where there are no "basic" gangers (or henchmen or spaceships) anymore and each figure is a very OTT, very "gimmicky" special character.

Don't jinx it!  ;) You might just give them ideas...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 15, 2015, 05:34:04 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 15, 2015, 04:02:01 PM
@ Rhoderic:

They can release different gangs in each year's box though (perhaps with a theme or centred on a narrative event), which means that on Year 4 they can return to the fist two antagonist Houses again. Supplements between the releases can expand the Houses in the boxed set and maybe introduce one of the Outlander factions as an Easter or summer expansion.

@ Elbows:

I love the original Necromunda model range!  lol

My only regret (then and now) is that it wasn't a bit bigger with more variation.

I meant the starter box plastics...the metals were absolutely fine.   :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on December 15, 2015, 05:50:59 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/A933a86.gif)


And in other news, what's the new Mordheim even supposed to include?
1 Sigmarine vs. 1 Khormarine?
Surely it has to be AoS-themed since they can't really use it as an introductory system for WHFB anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on December 15, 2015, 06:02:37 PM
Why not?  If they can make a box set of WH30k, why can't they make an AoS-500 box set or something like that?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 06:21:50 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on December 15, 2015, 05:50:59 PM
Surely it has to be AoS-themed since they can't really use it as an introductory system for WHFB anymore.

I'm not so sure. Mordheim has always been set in the "past" of the Warhammer world/mythos/legendarium/continuum/multiverse (what are we supposed to call it now??). Now it's just thousands of years further in the past. Even without Sigmarines, the figures for Mordheim should still be able to work double-duty for AoS, shouldn't they?

Alternatively, I suppose they could strip away the rest of the Warhammer world from around Mordheim and turn the city into a self-contained "bubble" setting that doesn't really bother to tell us what lies outside of it, much like Frostgrave or some RPG settings. There's a ruined city full of treasure and danger, there's varied adventurers coming into the city, that's all we need to know. I don't believe GW would go that route, but it's a possibility.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 06:21:50 PM
Alternatively, I suppose they could strip away the rest of the Warhammer world from around Mordheim and turn the city into a self-contained "bubble" setting that doesn't really bother to tell us what lies outside of it, much like Frostgrave or some RPG settings. There's a ruined city full of treasure and danger, there's varied adventurers coming into the city, that's all we need to know. I don't believe GW would go that route, but it's a possibility.

Why not?

Everybody else has been stealing stuff from GW for years.

Turnabout is fair play or as we used to say in the not so PC world... Payback's a bitch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 15, 2015, 07:01:07 PM
Well they could have it as the survivors of the great cataclysm fighting in warbands in the different realms. It'd add in a way to get the gritty, human level fluff we need for AoS, and it could work rules wise since before the age of sigmar , you had the age of chaos,and before that, a thousand different realms ,kingdoms, tribes scattered throughout the void.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 07:05:35 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
Why not?

Everybody else has been stealing stuff from GW for years.

Turnabout is fair play or as we used to say in the not so PC world... Payback's a bitch.

I don't follow. Stripping Mordheim of a well-defined outside context and turning it into a bubble setting would be a form of stealing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 15, 2015, 07:09:26 PM
Does anyone else feel that part of the issue with 40k is that the game has started to go towards much more mechanised combat than infantry? It's probably been that way for awhile (I've been away for a long, long time) but I just don't like how it's been taken away from Space Marines (and their enemies) doing bad arse things and has became "Land Raider moves forward, disgorges a bunch of marines and then kills everything". It takes away a lot of the fun of the game when the things doing the best work are mechanical and not my empathetic units.

Nevermind the fact that they just don't feel at all suited to the scale of the game. 28mm does not lend itself to a lot of big pieces on the board.

It's also part of the contributor to points creep. More points to fit in more big things which takes away from the feeling of "being on the ground".

Space Marines = Very good.
Dreadnoughts = Good.
Rhinos = One per army, at the most.
Landraiders = For fuck's sake, just play Apocalypse.

Oh, well, I guess Infinity exists. I'll start playing that and see if I can't convert a few people. Either that or Kill Team.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 07:20:23 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 07:05:35 PM
I don't follow. Stripping Mordheim of a well-defined outside context and turning it into a bubble setting would be a form of stealing?

Okay, borrowing the concept.

I guess a form of copying, which is what other manufacturers having been done for years with GW concepts... if you want to be nice.

Quote from: nullBolt on December 15, 2015, 07:09:26 PM
Space Marines = Very good.
Dreadnoughts = Good.
Rhinos = One per army, at the most.
Landraiders = For fuck's sake, just play Apocalypse.

Indeed, like many folks I dabbled in 40K as well, but what I walked away from that experience was feeling that really the only way they could hook me was to do it in 18mm.

THAT I would freak out on. But pretty sure it won't happen though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 15, 2015, 07:24:41 PM
Like I was badly hinting at, I dunno about Mordheim being an 'historical' game - it seems that they don't want to acknowledge their 'history' anymore.

Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
Everybody else has been stealing stuff from GW for years.

Turnabout is fair play or as we used to say in the not so PC world... Payback's a bitch.

Yup.

Especially when they stole their concepts in the first place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on December 15, 2015, 07:30:02 PM
Quote from: nic-e on December 15, 2015, 07:01:07 PM
It'd add in a way to get the gritty, human level fluff we need for AoS,...
Oh yes, this would be good. The main reason AoS failed to appeal to me so far is the focus so far on Superhuman (gold flavour) vs Superhuman (red flavour) conflict. I miss the human measure, the angst and pathos of regular folk (human or otherwise) trying to survive in a world full of nightmare fuel that the Old World had. Hopefully in time it will return.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 15, 2015, 07:57:11 PM
Just quoting myself due to narcissism:
Quote from: nullBolt on December 15, 2015, 07:09:26 PM
Does anyone else feel that part of the issue with 40k is that the game has started to go towards much more mechanised combat than infantry? It's probably been that way for awhile (I've been away for a long, long time) but I just don't like how it's been taken away from Space Marines (and their enemies) doing bad arse things and has became "Land Raider moves forward, disgorges a bunch of marines and then kills everything". It takes away a lot of the fun of the game when the things doing the best work are mechanical and not my empathetic units.

Nevermind the fact that they just don't feel at all suited to the scale of the game. 28mm does not lend itself to a lot of big pieces on the board.

It's also part of the contributor to points creep. More points to fit in more big things which takes away from the feeling of "being on the ground".

Space Marines = Very good.
Dreadnoughts = Good.
Rhinos = One per army, at the most.
Landraiders = For fuck's sake, just play Apocalypse.

Oh, well, I guess Infinity exists. I'll start playing that and see if I can't convert a few people. Either that or Kill Team.
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 07:20:23 PM
Okay, borrowing the concept.

I guess a form of copying, which is what other manufacturers having been done for years with GW concepts... if you want to be nice.

Look at the Rick Priestley interview, though. Even he admits they lifted the Imperium of Man and it's history pretty much wholesale from Dune.

Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 07:20:23 PM
Indeed, like many folks I dabbled in 40K as well, but what I walked away from that experience was feeling that really the only way they could hook me was to do it in 18mm.

THAT I would freak out on. But pretty sure it won't happen though.

I'd like skirmish level 40k at the current scale and the current 40k at a much smaller scale. That'd be amazing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 15, 2015, 08:24:42 PM
Quote from: Modhail on December 15, 2015, 07:30:02 PM
Oh yes, this would be good. The main reason AoS failed to appeal to me so far is the focus so far on Superhuman (gold flavour) vs Superhuman (red flavour) conflict. I miss the human measure, the angst and pathos of regular folk (human or otherwise) trying to survive in a world full of nightmare fuel that the Old World had. Hopefully in time it will return.

I read the first AoS novel when it was released (i got caught up in the hype, and i liked the rules.) and it did focus on them, and it was great! for about a chapter...
After that it was all thunder and muscle, but what i really wanted was more about the survivors from the sart.Who were they? how had they survived so long? how long have they been running? do they worship chaos? what have they had to do to get this far?
a shame, i would have much preferred it if the book had had the stormcasts show up RIGHT at the end to whoop ass and save the last humans.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 15, 2015, 08:49:18 PM
40K became a rather absurd arms race a long time ago.  I had a 12 year old kid show up with a Baneblade tank as his only force for a Thursday night bring-n-battle at the local GW shop.  No one else would play him, so I did and threw a singing spear, almost destroying the tank.

But, big kits = big money = big profit?  I remember I hadn't been to a gaming convention in years and I went to one where a 40K tournament was being held.  4'x4' and 6'x4' tables for the tournament.  Not a single table didn't have an obscenely large flier (or two) on the table - something that's borderline inexcusable in a 28mm game.  Unless you're landing a transport on the board somehow...why?  Why have a huge ship which would fly past at 300+ kph?  Because big model = big money.

Same thing with people bringings knights and titans to bear on a silly 6'x4' board.  lol  But I saw plenty of tank companies in 3rd edition, so I guess reality and sense was never a high priority as long as people would buy huge expensive kits.  Like many folks, I'd be more than happy to see an occasional dreadnought, a couple of transports, maybe one main battle tank, and mostly infantry.  Fits the scale much better, but that's irrelevant to the game. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 07:20:23 PM
Okay, borrowing the concept.

I guess a form of copying, which is what other manufacturers having been done for years with GW concepts... if you want to be nice.

No, seriously, I'm not sure what this conversation is anymore. If you mean it would be copying or borrowing/stealing from Frostgrave, then I didn't mean it like that. I meant it as in returning to the old, simple, sincere "roots" of fantasy storytelling / gaming, when not every fantasy story had to be set in a well-defined world full of well-defined nations, cultures, languages, cities, tribes and so on, all informed by well-defined geography and a well-defined world history. There only needs to be a location with some specific mood or atmosphere about it, some action or intrigue happening in that location, some half-defined immediate surroundings, and some vague notion of an "outside world" (that need never be crystallised by way of maps, chronicles or gazetteers) from which people, things and information may come in to the location, providing inspiring hints of what lies beyond, but only that. Think Gormenghast. It's been a growing trend in fantasy games lately (especially RPGs, see for instance Symbaroum) but to take that route doesn't mean to steal other people's ideas. Quite the contrary, it's a return to something more basal and primal. I do enjoy great works of world-building, but I also enjoy small, self-contained settings.

In the case of Mordheim, it need only be this: In some misty enclave of our fantasies, there is a ruined city. A dark, mad place surrounded by creepy forests. They say a comet hit it. There's treasure. There's people coming from all around to fight over that treasure (oh cool, some of them look like renaissance Germans! I wonder what that's all about... ooh and there's evil ratmen! And vampires and some kind of daemon worshippers! That's neat!). That's all we need to know. Let's go have an adventure!

The only reason I'm doubtful GW would go that route is that the notion doesn't feel characteristic of them. Historically, they like their game settings nailed down in place. Encouraging customers to use their imagination is not really in the shareholders' best interests.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 09:44:15 PM
By the way, 15-18mm 40K with a proper, exhaustive range of miniatures? Yes please! :)

I have a small 15-18mm Ion Age project on the side, which has a very similar flavour to 40K, but I fiercely miss the Eldar and Orks, and on a meta-level the space knights of Ion Age ultimately don't have the iconic superstar "wow factor" of 40K Space Marines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 15, 2015, 10:06:50 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 08:56:40 PM
The only reason I'm doubtful GW would go that route is that the notion doesn't feel characteristic of them.

That's why I think Mordheim was so damn popular, so damn quickly. It was a brilliant concept and (apparently) so innovative, completely contrary to the way the company seemed to be steering things. It had everything, small and (relatively) affordable forces that people could enjoy on the board, but importantly, they could invest their time, money and imaginations into between games. The planning and the back-and-forth of spending points was a hobby in itself.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 10:37:24 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 15, 2015, 10:06:50 PM
That's why I think Mordheim was so damn popular, so damn quickly. It was a brilliant concept and (apparently) so innovative, completely contrary to the way the company seemed to be steering things. It had everything, small and (relatively) affordable forces that people could enjoy on the board, but importantly, they could invest their time, money and imaginations into between games. The planning and the back-and-forth of spending points was a hobby in itself.

Sadly, according to the Priestley interview, that seems to have been around the time GW management came to be convinced that the inherent difficulties of the French, Spanish and Italian markets made the SGs too risky a venture for them. I do wonder if maybe Priestley was exaggerating and/or oversimplifying that bit, but the way the interview makes it out, persistent overproduction of foreign-language versions really was the reason GW decided it didn't want to be in the business of Specialist Games anymore.

Gorkamorka seems to have been the biggest culprit, but I assume it took a few more years after that for the thought to really crystallise in their minds.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 16, 2015, 03:31:50 AM
Mordheim was set in the past of the Warhammer world wasn't it? No need to change anything there. Now it's in the past of the bubble worlds.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 16, 2015, 10:39:00 AM
Quote from: Elbows on December 15, 2015, 05:34:04 PM
I meant the starter box plastics...the metals were absolutely fine.   :D

Okay, I agree then - carry on!  lol


Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 06:55:52 PM
Why not?

Everybody else has been stealing stuff from GW for years.

Turnabout is fair play or as we used to say in the not so PC world... Payback's a bitch.
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 15, 2015, 07:20:23 PM
Okay, borrowing the concept.

I guess a form of copying, which is what other manufacturers having been done for years with GW concepts... if you want to be nice.

Funny how when GW stole borrowed from others' ideas that was okay, but when others do it to GW suddenly you get as defensive as they do.

Hell, they claim proudly to do no market research, and yet they'll happily use other companies' store locations to decide where to put their own stores - second-hand market research on a global scale!  lol

Personally, I think GW has gone really stale, and I'm not just talking about the axing of WHFB. To turn this around it's clear they need to borrow ideas from elsewhere again, as their own creative talent clearly isn't up to thinking imaginatively for themselves.


Quote from: nullBolt on December 15, 2015, 07:09:26 PM
Does anyone else feel that part of the issue with 40k is that the game has started to go towards much more mechanised combat than infantry? It's probably been that way for awhile (I've been away for a long, long time) but I just don't like how it's been taken away from Space Marines (and their enemies) doing bad arse things and has became "Land Raider moves forward, disgorges a bunch of marines and then kills everything". It takes away a lot of the fun of the game when the things doing the best work are mechanical and not my empathetic units.

Been that way for a long time.

RT = no real official vehicles until walkers and Rhinos and Land Raiders came along rather later via supplements.

2E = small vehicles common, towards the end -when IG Codex is released- the rules for making a preliminary bombardment come about (thereby giving a reason to have plenty of tanks).

3E = Rhino Rush skews the game badly.

4E = Introduces the Land Raider Crusader, and the Armoured Company. Also, vehicle-mounted twin-linked assault cannons are a fashion.

5E = Infamous "Leafblower" list ruins people's days. Melta weapons and lascannons are the best thing ever in all lists that expect to win.

6E = Flyers are now the must-have item for all armies. Thanks to a poorly-thought-out FAQ ruling, the Chaos Helldrake basically becomes a must-have model in every Chaos list (ideally two or more - as many as you can fit basically).

7E = Giant vehicles are now a normal part of the game.


Quote from: nullBolt on December 15, 2015, 07:09:26 PM
Oh, well, I guess Infinity exists. I'll start playing that and see if I can't convert a few people. Either that or Kill Team.

Infinity is fun, but has a lot of rules to learn. However, it doesn't cost a lot to get started (basically free if you proxy the models to begin with and already have plenty of terrain). Just be aware that a lot of the game's balance comes from understanding the game and planning/acting accordingly - there is therefore a fairly steep learning curve until you get the hang of this.

Kill Team... Maybe. Looks like a fun distraction for a few games, but I doubt it has enough to hold up in the longer-term. Plus, you still need a load of GW publications in order to get access to the units and equipment, so it's pretty convoluted for what it is.


Quote from: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 10:37:24 PM
Sadly, according to the Priestley interview, that seems to have been around the time GW management came to be convinced that the inherent difficulties of the French, Spanish and Italian markets made the SGs too risky a venture for them.

That's less of a problem now that they can release electronic versions of rulebooks. Sure, there's still a translation cost, but at least you don't end up with huge unsold print runs.


Quote from: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 10:37:24 PM
I do wonder if maybe Priestley was exaggerating and/or oversimplifying that bit, but the way the interview makes it out, persistent overproduction of foreign-language versions really was the reason GW decided it didn't want to be in the business of Specialist Games anymore.

Gorkamorka seems to have been the biggest culprit, but I assume it took a few more years after that for the thought to really crystallise in their minds.

Of course he was - rarely is anything like that down to one single simple factor. However, it doesn't mean that his statement wasn't pretty much a description of the major basis of that decision.

I know that some activities and hobbies are more prevalent in some countries than others though (for all sorts of cultural and local reasons), and I suspect that not understanding that probably led GW to make some mistakes. At the same time though, if you don't provide a local-language version of a game, it is very difficult to break into the market there (especially with the non-Sterling prices charged there for their products...).

Specialist games made that problem more exaggerated in many ways, because they provided cheap self-contained games that all needed a fair amount of logistics to support, but which didn't net GW enough sales to sustain them in those countries. At least, not like the sales that WHFB and 40K demanded in order to play them. GM was the worst example in many ways as one Ork gang was all you ever really needed (at least Necromunda had different House gangs and lots of different weapons), and you couldn't even sell those players any terrain either.


Quote from: Cubs on December 15, 2015, 10:06:50 PM
The planning and the back-and-forth of spending points was a hobby in itself.

Very true.

Although it could be tedious to have a whole second meta-game of list-building (especially if you just want to play a quick, fun, fair game), it was a big part of GW's games. It also provided a structure for players to plan what they wanted to buy and model next for their forces.

I actually think this is one of the really key things that people feel sorely about in AoS - that this part of the game has been totally removed.


Quote from: Rhoderic on December 15, 2015, 06:21:50 PM
I'm not so sure. Mordheim has always been set in the "past" of the Warhammer world/mythos/legendarium/continuum/multiverse (what are we supposed to call it now??). Now it's just thousands of years further in the past. Even without Sigmarines, the figures for Mordheim should still be able to work double-duty for AoS, shouldn't they?

GW already licence the computer game version of Mordheim, and that hasn't changed the setting. If the plan is to provide a transition game from the PC to GW's other games, then I can't see them changing the setting for the tabletop version either.

Models-wise, they can produce a Skaven sprue (which will then provide AoS Skaven figures to replace the last lot of Mordheim Skaven that at the time then became WHFB figures), and maybe do the same for the Human sprue too.


Quote from: nullBolt on December 15, 2015, 07:57:11 PM
I'd like skirmish level 40k at the current scale and the current 40k at a much smaller scale. That'd be amazing.

That'd be 40k 2E and Epic respectively! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 16, 2015, 11:19:59 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 16, 2015, 10:39:00 AM

Infinity is fun, but has a lot of rules to learn. However, it doesn't cost a lot to get started (basically free if you proxy the models to begin with and already have plenty of terrain). Just be aware that a lot of the game's balance comes from understanding the game and planning/acting accordingly - there is therefore a fairly steep learning curve until you get the hang of this.

Kill Team... Maybe. Looks like a fun distraction for a few games, but I doubt it has enough to hold up in the longer-term. Plus, you still need a load of GW publications in order to get access to the units and equipment, so it's pretty convoluted for what it is.


OR...

Inquisimunda, which is basically Necromunda modified as much as you like with house rules.
Some of our group have been giving that a go and it has been much more fun.
10 or so figures a side where each one 'counts' and you really notice its loss.

With the rumoured re-release of 'Munda, this concept may grow even more.
Which would suit me fine as it is the sort of skirmish game that I prefer.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on December 16, 2015, 02:19:57 PM
The main problem I have with GW is that their flagship game is totally uninteresting to play.  As a game it is very much showing its age.  The decision points within the game are so few and far apart that it has principally become all about the meta-game.  That is the game is mostly played out in selecting your force and once they hit the table you see how it did and tweak your list accordingly.  ie most of the meaningful decisions are made before and after the battle. 

Looking at battle reports written for it don't give any kind of "believable" narrative either so it also lacks in playing out a story as well.  Compare it to a write up for a Chain of Command game.  A game like that can't help but be written up in a narrative style since the game play gives that kind of action.

I think this is also why there was such a backlash against AoS.  If most of the decisions in WFB were in list building then what happens to the game if it doesn't have any army lists?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 16, 2015, 02:59:33 PM
Quote from: jon_1066 on December 16, 2015, 02:19:57 PM
The main problem I have with GW is that their flagship game is totally uninteresting to play.  As a game it is very much showing its age.  The decision points within the game are so few and far apart that it has principally become all about the meta-game.  That is the game is mostly played out in selecting your force and once they hit the table you see how it did and tweak your list accordingly.  ie most of the meaningful decisions are made before and after the battle. 

Looking at battle reports written for it don't give any kind of "believable" narrative either so it also lacks in playing out a story as well.  Compare it to a write up for a Chain of Command game.  A game like that can't help but be written up in a narrative style since the game play gives that kind of action.

I think this is also why there was such a backlash against AoS.  If most of the decisions in WFB were in list building then what happens to the game if it doesn't have any army lists?

I was thinking about this myself. Strategy is far too easy for stuff like 40k because you know what you're bringing to the board. One of the things that would spice it up a bit is if each player rolled to see which units actually made it or something, and try to win based off that. At the very least, it'd force people to change up their strategies.

Then again, knowing the average 40k player they'd just bring a legion of superheavies and nothing else so if they lose one they keep the rest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on December 16, 2015, 03:30:51 PM
Quote from: Mason on December 16, 2015, 11:19:59 AM

Inquisimunda, which is basically Necromunda modified as much as you like with house rules.
Some of our group have been giving that a go and it has been much more fun.
10 or so figures a side where each one 'counts' and you really notice its loss.

With the rumoured re-release of 'Munda, this concept may grow even more.
Which would suit me fine as it is the sort of skirmish game that I prefer.
 :D





GW have always had really good skirmish, or at least small scale, game rules. The original LotR rule set is still a fantastic rule set for smaller games, and was reworked into the whole "legends" series of rules. Both munda and Mord share the same basic principles and ideas and they in turn, have been re worked by other companies since.

What i find interesting about the new SG division of GW, is that it probably wont produce ANY rules at all!
GW are now a miniatures company period.

So any releases for munda or Mord, may well be stand alone boxed games that people buy for the excellent plastic models.

Sound familiar?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 16, 2015, 04:02:50 PM
Quote from: jon_1066 on December 16, 2015, 02:19:57 PM
I think this is also why there was such a backlash against AoS.  If most of the decisions in WFB were in list building then what happens to the game if it doesn't have any army lists?

That's where I have conflicting thoughts about AoS. On the one hand, I'm very much into freeform-style games that focus on the crafting of narrative scenarios instead of list-building, points-based game balance and symmetric battles/skirmishes. So, that aspect of AoS does not offend me because frankly it's the sort of thing I like in a game. On the other hand, I find it very difficult to imagine that GW would want to shed its old customer base of list-building metagamers and powergamers in favour of "hippie" storyteller-gamers like myself (or "carebears" to borrow a term from the MMORPG scene). It just doesn't compute. Not with GW.

Add to that the fact that when GW destroyed the Warhammer world and made the AoS world in its place, their intention was clearly to make their proprietary fantasy setting more similar to 40K. This on the assumption that because 40K outsold WHFB by far, the obvious way to make their fantasy line sell better was to reshape it in the mould of 40K. So I really don't believe the story that AoS is an attempt by GW to replace its customer base with a different one.

And that raises the issue of how that existing customer base is going to approach AoS. Even if, for the sake of this discussion, we take AoS at face value to have been designed as a loosey-goosey, freeform, narrative-driven type of game, that's just not how the existing customer base will treat it. They'll find ways to bring back the competitive "tournament-style" aspect, the metagaming, the list-building, the powergaming and all the rest of that. Only it will be more messy in the absence of a game balance structure superimposed from the top down, which if anything is likely to make the prevailing mood and tone of the GW "core game" player community even more acrimonious, harsh and generally obnoxious than it is today.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on December 16, 2015, 04:13:57 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 16, 2015, 04:02:50 PM
That's where I have conflicting thoughts about AoS. On the one hand, I'm very much into freeform-style games that focus on the crafting of narrative scenarios instead of list-building, points-based game balance and symmetric battles/skirmishes. So, that aspect of AoS does not offend me because frankly it's the sort of thing I like in a game. On the other hand, I find it very difficult to imagine that GW would want to shed its old customer base of list-building metagamers and powergamers in favour of "hippie" storyteller-gamers like myself (or "carebears" to borrow a term from the MMORPG scene). It just doesn't compute. Not with GW.

Add to that the fact that when GW destroyed the Warhammer world and made the AoS world in its place, their intention was clearly to make their proprietary fantasy setting more similar to 40K. This on the assumption that because 40K outsold WHFB by far, the obvious way to make their fantasy line sell better was to reshape it in the mould of 40K. So I really don't believe the story that AoS is an attempt by GW to replace its customer base with a different one.

And that raises the issue of how that existing customer base is going to approach AoS. Even if, for the sake of this discussion, we take AoS at face value to have been designed as a loosey-goosey, freeform, narrative-driven type of game, that's just not how the existing customer base will treat it. They'll find ways to bring back the competitive "tournament-style" aspect, the metagaming, the list-building, the powergaming and all the rest of that. Only it will be more messy in the absence of a game balance structure superimposed from the top down, which if anything is likely to make the prevailing mood and tone of the GW "core game" player community even more acrimonious, harsh and generally obnoxious than it is today.

I suspect GW as an entity were not self aware enough to realise that most of the "game" in WFB was in the pre-game list building.  So they easily took a decision to not bother with points/competitive play since that is a lot of up keep (and therefore money) to stay on top of develop, play test, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 16, 2015, 04:25:47 PM
Quote from: jon_1066 on December 16, 2015, 04:13:57 PM
I suspect GW as an entity were not self aware enough to realise that most of the "game" in WFB was in the pre-game list building.  So they easily took a decision to not bother with points/competitive play since that is a lot of up keep (and therefore money) to stay on top of develop, play test, etc.

Is it? I've always heard the GW rules design studio is run on a pittance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 16, 2015, 04:47:37 PM
I agree fully that the 40K game itself as well is in the force creation, namely if you're planning on attending a tournament.  While I built my old Eldar lists for fluff and fun, I won perhaps 10% of the games I played over a 14 year span because of it.  But that truly is the game.  Listening to a podcast a little while ago about a big tournament in Australia it was pretty revealing.  The gentleman who attended and was running a team of 8-10 players spoke about the tournament much like you would a Magic the Gathering tournament.

His players agreed before hand to bring commonly used formulas (they had nicknames for the formulas too).  In addition, when they showed up, he stated that all of the teams brought an X-army, and Y-army, and Z-army.  Certain formulas were built to defeat other formulas and short of a dice disaster, they'd do so routinely.  While this is interesting and definitely a different side of the wargaming hobby, it's not for me.  I do remember crawling through my Codex trying to figure out cool combinations (not the best, but the coolest).

It was the cheesy/beardy/meta gaming stuff that inspired the way I build most of my games now.  They're built to the opposite end of the spectrum, full of random units, random equipment, random activation, and special cards intended to throw the game on its ear.  Everything that 40K/WHFB are not.  I don't criticize people who enjoy that stuff, it's just a wholly different type of game than what I really enjoy.

Nothing ruins a game for me more than mathematical impossibilities or assurances.  If, during a game where you must capture an objective, you realize on turn two you can't mathematically reach it with any of your units because of poor deployment - why bother finishing?  I really like there to almost always be a chance of something changing.  I guess, as much as I enjoyed 40K (more the painting/modeling/social aspects of it) back in the day, it really did forge what I like in wargames, which is EVERYTHING else.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on December 16, 2015, 04:56:04 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 16, 2015, 04:25:47 PM
Is it? I've always heard the GW rules design studio is run on a pittance.

It's not just the design studio - it's the printing costs of codexes, inventory, play testing (if that actual occurs!), layout, and all the other ancillary things.  Without the points they don't need loss making codexes being released in order to sell models.  Just bang out a Warscroll and don't worry about balance.  A very easy decision for an accountant to make.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 16, 2015, 05:14:44 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 16, 2015, 04:25:47 PM
Is it? I've always heard the GW rules design studio is run on a pittance.

I think GW is the type of company to save a penny and somehow lose a pound.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 16, 2015, 06:37:47 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 16, 2015, 04:47:37 PM
Nothing ruins a game for me more than mathematical impossibilities or assurances.  If, during a game where you must capture an objective, you realize on turn two you can't mathematically reach it with any of your units because of poor deployment - why bother finishing?  I really like there to almost always be a chance of something changing.

See, this is the true in the other extreme - why spend time trying to think and play tactically in a game if at the end it comes down to a 50-50 dice roll or a random table? Your decisions up to that point are rendered meaningless if you can instead just roll a dice a the beginning to determine who wins, shake hands, and spend your afternoon doing something else - you don't even need to learn rules or buy models for that.

A wargame lies somewhere between these two extremes. It needs enough randomness and rules permission to keep players in a game, without the players feeling like they have no control over their decisions. I think that if you are not going to have tons of special rules and combos, then you need a broader range of possible outcomes to differentiate the various units instead. You also need more opportunities for your models in a game, so that players can still have options and not be shut down early by their opponent or luck.

It's pretty difficult, but I think having too many uneeded army list options does make this an impossible thing to acheive. I also think that having deliberately broken stuff in an army book, and requiring players to invest several hundred pounds in models alone each, is a receipie for people have strong reactionary outbursts. You know, the kind that lead to the sort of behaviour that gets labelled as "That Guy".


Quote from: jon_1066 on December 16, 2015, 04:56:04 PM
Just bang out a Warscroll and don't worry about balance.  A very easy decision for an accountant to make.

I quite agree!


Quote from: nullBolt on December 16, 2015, 05:14:44 PM
I think GW is the type of company to save a penny and somehow lose a pound.

Or that askes you spend a hundred pounds on a model, and then is surprised that they can't sell you enough models to make a profit.

"Don't scalp now what you can shave for years".  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 16, 2015, 07:01:57 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 16, 2015, 06:37:47 PM
A wargame lies somewhere between these two extremes.

I must admit, even as a previously occasional browser of White Dwarf, I was taken aback to see the deliberately beardy articles, where various GW staff members would share their loopholes and guaranteed win secrets. Jebus guys, really?

It's not that the information wasn't out there (even more so, now that social media is so much more prevalent than back then), it's more that it was getting not only official sanction, but rather official encouragement!

I love writing lists for stuff. Not power-gaming, more just planning a nicely rounded force so I can react to different stuff and not just be a helpless spectator because I've overlooked something. It's also a good way of planning what to buy next.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 16, 2015, 07:27:33 PM
Major,

I agree that it's true in the other extreme.  I believe in the middle area theory as well.  lol  That's what I strive for.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 16, 2015, 08:12:57 PM
Funnily I think that the "random chance" extreme can still provide for at least some enjoyment in a game. The preclusion of strategy and tactics may not be ideal, but at least you're still seeing a story play out on the tabletop, and you can still hope to be able to "roleplay" your army a bit (having your Orc army behave "Orcy", and so on).

I see much less value in the opposite exteme, the "cold maths" extreme, which is why I'm a miniature wargamer even when most of my RL friends are more into strategic boardgames. What especially ruins a game for me is when other wargamers use mathematical impossibilities, assurances and statistical probabilities with the ruthless, logical persistence of a card-counter at a blackjack table, and expect their opponents to do the same, lest they be ruining the game by behaving like "carebears". Even when they're trying to be helpful, they often detract from the game for me. "Oh, that's a bad army list you've built. Not competitive at all. Here, let me fix that for you...". Seriously, back when I played WHFB and 40K, there were times when other players would - unbidden! - try to re-write my army lists for me, and think they were helping me have more fun by doing so. Such is the prevailing culture around the GW core games, and I don't see AoS being able to somehow "cure" that.

The ideal for me still lies between the two extremes, but closer to one extreme than the other.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 17, 2015, 12:02:55 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 16, 2015, 10:39:00 AM
Although it could be tedious to have a whole second meta-game of list-building (especially if you just want to play a quick, fun, fair game), it was a big part of GW's games. It also provided a structure for players to plan what they wanted to buy and model next for their forces.

Quote from: jon_1066 on December 16, 2015, 02:19:57 PM
The main problem I have with GW is that their flagship game is totally uninteresting to play.  As a game it is very much showing its age.  The decision points within the game are so few and far apart that it has principally become all about the meta-game.  That is the game is mostly played out in selecting your force and once they hit the table you see how it did and tweak your list accordingly.  ie most of the meaningful decisions are made before and after the battle.

Jon's answer is pretty much how I wanted to respond. :D (Also agreed with Nullbolt, Elbows, Rhoderic, and yourself, Gilbear) There's a place for both strategy and tactics, but GW's core two became too much about stategy in the form of listbuilding.
40K was eventually like a wind up toy to me. Put in all the effort winding up, writing the list, then let it go to run itself. Warhammer was a bit better, 'cos it still had the likes of flank attacks making manoeuvre important, but only a bit. Towards the end I think that might've been whittled away by all the monsters, big spells, and the horde and steadfast rules needed to survive against them.
I still can't stand the fact that 'mathammer' became a thing, either: building units and lists based on the mathematical probabilities of how each option would perform against a standard, like 'MEQs'. (Marine Equivalent Units) Good thing it seems to have died down again, but maybe it only seems that way because I avoid any so-called 40K 'tactics' topics these days.

Case in point:

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 16, 2015, 06:37:47 PM
See, this is the true in the other extreme - why spend time trying to think and play tactically in a game if at the end it comes down to a 50-50 dice roll or a random table? Your decisions up to that point are rendered meaningless if you can instead just roll a dice a the beginning to determine who wins, shake hands, and spend your afternoon doing something else - you don't even need to learn rules or buy models for that.

I've heard of games in tournies where that happened without even a dice roll - the opponents simply looked at eachother's lists and decided it there and then. It's 40K, and Elbows' example of list formulas, taken to it's logical conclusion. It really was a game about listbuilding!

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 16, 2015, 04:02:50 PM
Even if, for the sake of this discussion, we take AoS at face value to have been designed as a loosey-goosey, freeform, narrative-driven type of game, that's just not how the existing customer base will treat it.

I don't know if there's enough stuff in it to spark off much narrative, scenario, quasi-RPG gaming. Granted, I haven't read many of the books (that would necessitate buying them), but reports don't sound promising (fantasy bolter porn) and there's this one official campaign download I've latched onto. It involves the tribes of the Oighear, who live on a snowy plane in the realm of Metal. All we know about the plane is that it's constantly wracked with snowstorms and covered in snow, except once every thousand years there's a... storm... that... covers the plane in snow... ;D All we know about the Oighear is that they're shapeshifters, that conveniently look and behave like any models you have, and fight eachother after each millenial snowstorm.

There's such a thing as a sandbox setting, and then there's a desert.

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 16, 2015, 08:12:57 PM
Funnily I think that the "random chance" extreme can still provide for at least some enjoyment in a game. The preclusion of strategy and tactics may not be ideal, but at least you're still seeing a story play out on the tabletop, and you can still hope to be able to "roleplay" your army a bit (having your Orc army behave "Orcy", and so on).

The way I see it, the thing I enjoy, is being able to reduce the random factor through tactical choices. Even things like orc animosity in WFB. I'm not entirely sure if going much more random than that, or than basic stats, unit types and army structure, (like, say, the enormous list of effects for a Skaven screaming bell) is necessarily more 'orcy'. (or skaveny) I'd say your ability to 'roleplay' might be taken off you and acted out for you by such rules, too.
Anyway, it wouldn't be to my tastes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 17, 2015, 01:57:22 AM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 16, 2015, 04:02:50 PM
And that raises the issue of how that existing customer base is going to approach AoS. Even if, for the sake of this discussion, we take AoS at face value to have been designed as a loosey-goosey, freeform, narrative-driven type of game, that's just not how the existing customer base will treat it. They'll find ways to bring back the competitive "tournament-style" aspect, the metagaming, the list-building, the powergaming and all the rest of that. Only it will be more messy in the absence of a game balance structure superimposed from the top down, which if anything is likely to make the prevailing mood and tone of the GW "core game" player community even more acrimonious, harsh and generally obnoxious than it is today.

I really like this post, Rhoderic. However, I would assert more that GW's move and attitudes with this genre switch is more about hollow rhetoric and responsibility-dodging than it is about creating a new gaming experience. I view it much like the Finecast fiasco. I've come to expect it from GW. There is a possibility I'm paranoid, but I cannot escape the feeling that GW is motivated too often by cold sales and throws in a bit of "positive spin" that occurs by accident. Hence why I mention Finecast. The name is a bit of spin, reflecting the fact that resin has crisper details. But GW didn't move to resin for that reason (it's perfectly possible to make very good quality metal casts, just look at Rackham), it's blatantly obvious they moved because of the spike on metal costs, and thus were making a saving. They then decided that it absolutely had to be pitched as a 100% improvement.

It's GW's bloody-minded arrogance that cost them here. Other companies, upon moving to resin, were honest, and made some simple gesture to keep customers on board such as freezing the pricing for a while (as they made a saving on shipping anyway). This was further exacerbated by GW not only phasing out metal, on the proviso of launching a premium product, but unlike with, say, Hasslefree, this was not a choice, but the only option, and GW basically declared their resin the best in the industry. For the first 3 years of production, they proved just how full of shit they were. Utterly awful casting. I am still loath to pay for any resin product from GW and I boycotted the range for about 4 years. This was all because they simply had to make it look like something else that fitted with their over the top premium attitude, whilst typically, there was more corporate polish applied than any basic quality control. Even to this day, their resin sculpts are pathetically bad. I've ordered resin from a few other companies: Hasslefree, Infamy Miniatures (most recently), Khurasan, Maxmini, Puppetswar, and Kromlech. In every case their resin quality was massively better. Even a cheap budget resin company, like say Ramshackle Games manages to bypass bubbles and warping to a greater extent. Yet GW still act like their resin product is worth something. In fact, the range's launch coincided with a price rise, in spite of the fact that the first 6 months of casting was so bad that they received a massive amount of complaints and returns, an entirely justified Internet Flame Campaign that is still charring parts of BoLS, Warseer and Dakka, and led to stock companies such as Wayland games refusing to stock Finecast because it failed their quality control standards.

What has this got to do with AoS? Well it's exactly the same. End Times is about IP. They have decided to tighten and redefine their brand to be more distinctive, and easier to defend in terms of IP. GW are not entirely at fault, the British and US legal systems don't seem to help much (such as failing to encourage companies in seeking ethical solutions to problems) and thus Chapter House brought this about. Nevertheless, this is still classic GW spin. All of the Oldhammer fans lose out, and the only people who benefit are GW. Some fans also win entirely by accident if they happen to like the new product. But I don't think GW will give one remote toss whether they have to recruit an entirely new fanbase for the game, and they're certainly too far up their own arse to analyse if destroying a game so many invested years of their lives and imaginations into was a bad move.

GW like to go with hollow rhetoric and spin. They spend a lot of time talking of narrative wargames, of forging narratives, of arbitrary fun generators and gimmicky "cool" names. Or "McCool" names, because the names are awful. They don't actually care about that, them being awful simply ensures their being unique, and thus easier to aid the vindictive lawsuits and unrelenting persecution of any small fry company that so much thinks of even slightly diminishing their carefully crafted monopoly, which wouldn't be depressingly funny if it wasn't for the fact that in spite of all this effort, and indeed, often because of it, that they do more damage to their own commercial value than any bits company that most people haven't heard of until GW takes them to court.

Much of the reason why GW has removed the pricing, and army construction/balance elements is probably spite. They're criticised constantly for their awful writing (pretty much most of it being justified notwithstanding) and this is very likely a big "fuck you" in the direction of their critics. Most of whom, are or were fans. Quite an amazing feat, really. To make the people who want to love your stuff, utterly, utterly despise you. That kind of talent needs to be placed in a museum. It's been a few years since I had something that stupid to stare at.

I mean, GW do know they have to put something out. In a way, I half like their hands off attitude, and just wish they actually wrote less. That at least encourages fan alterations. My local GW's Manager has already let me write additional rules for campaigns (working on a Dogs of War system for January) and we've adopted a fan-made points system that includes important elements that make the game much more accessible for those with no clue of what is fair.

I just don't buy the idea that fundamentally unfair or imbalanced games are worth playing. Having read through the scenarios, I also don't feel very many of the objectives offer equal opportunity to an underpowered force. Even those that do, if you need scenarios specifically designed to try and make your game fair, there is something fucking fundamentally wrong with it. Any kind of game that has a "playing it any way other than this way is wrong" attitude is often adopted by systems that themselves are so flawed that they need these attitudes, and thus it seems to me an endeavour of defending poor design. It's why I've struggled to be part of the GW community for the last decade, and it's affecting my capacity to actually enjoy wargames.

Age of Sigmar's insistent but no help on balance approach reminds me of Inquisitor, a game for which I have no diminishing amount of loathing for. Age of Sigmar may have been intended as a new kind of game, but the term "Narrative Skirmish" is certainly more present in Inquisitor than here, and yet Inquisitor still failed to do this well, so you can imagine what that implies about AoS and 40k. It's just hollow rhetoric. The games don't tell much of a story.

What really gets me about this is I actually like the idea of Forging the Narrative, and playing Narrative focussed games. The problem is, GW just doesn't deliver. It's just an excuse for them, from having to do anything. Sure, players can intervene and try to enact that intention, but GW didn't do much with that intention other than put it in a word box as filler and to excuse the games from having much more substance above the level of their token filler. Given that GW have in recent years patronisingly and dogmatically controlled all aspects of gaming, they have bred generations of inept, socially awkward (and I mean more than usual) and positively self-centred, rude and abrasive gamers, who think winning is everything, rules shouldn't actually be read in the same way as the rest of their native language, and the only bit of sportsmanship you do is say "good game" after making their carefully built/painted and fluffy/themed army all but actually disintegrate from the gaming table.

To then replace all of that control, with effectively a wargaming construction kit with no instructions, or working tools. Thus the game presents the issue of playing games (and thus enacting their "narrative" focus on gaming) without any help is not only an utter cop out, but entirely unprofessional, completely ridiculous and hilariously pathetic. Especially when you consider that GW charges more than anyone else in the entire industry for rules to play their game. Me and a friend created our own 10mm wargame, got models casted (including the cost of making our own spin-moulds) and 4 factions printed off in less than the money that it costs me to update to a new edition for ONE faction in 40k. That's just rules, not models. And you can forget about AoS having free rules. There's already 3 hardback books out, and I doubt they're available for free (I presume the Seraphon is sufficiently different from the free Lizardman book).

If the narrative aspect was truly embraced, GW could do wonderful things with it. But GW are perfectly willing to palm off responsibility, but not to dish out power and influence to the player. If players want a narrative in 40k, they have to roll on arbitrary tables. Or in AoS pick scenarios that "tell the story", because the game certainly fucking wont. Yet it wouldn't take much to give the player the tools to build scenarios, to add narrative devices or modifiers that help customise their games. I've done that for a free ruleset I cannot hope to make money off. How the fuck has the biggest wargaming company in the industry failed to even consider it?

The fact is, GW is only interested in complete political and financial control of their aspect of the industry, and most likely the whole industry in general. They'll say and put out whatever helps them achieve it, even if that includes exaggeration or outright fabrication. They'll claim to support ideologies that they don't give one toss about, and they'll ultimately facilitate what makes them money: i.e. the same powergaming bullshit they've overemphasised since Andy Chambers departed with all the good ideas. There's little point expecting GW to do anything else. They're a basic corporate entity and that's all they'll ever be.

If video killed the radio star, the sales department killed the design studio. With Nagash's stupid fucking hat. In the billiard room.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 16, 2015, 06:37:47 PM
It's pretty difficult, but I think having too many uneeded army list options does make this an impossible thing to acheive. I also think that having deliberately broken stuff in an army book, and requiring players to invest several hundred pounds in models alone each, is a receipie for people have strong reactionary outbursts. You know, the kind that lead to the sort of behaviour that gets labelled as "That Guy".

I know you weren't using it in this way, but I'm rather tired of the "That Guy" defence. It seems GW's attitude to balancing and writing is that it's not their problem, and anyone who takes it too far will be labelled "that guy" and wont get games. Quite a few of GW's defenders use it frequently, and I find it far too context dependent to be a sufficient excuse for GW's practices. It too often overlooks gaming communities where these sorts of quite cheesy, tailoring, and outright powergaming nonsense are not just tolerated, but normalised. A large part of GW's community has been that way for a very long time (I put a lot of blame on 5th and 6th Ed 40k for this) and I doubt it will improve any time soon.

It's not as if GW are consistent with this. As I say above (amidst... that... up there) they will throw in all sorts of powergaming bullshit if it sells the models they want to sell at that time. AoS is not divorced from this process, it's just barely got going. It wont take long either.

It does lead to a very controversial point to end on...

I honestly am on two minds on whether or not GW can fail. Of late it has led me to conclude that the entire industry depends on whether or not the Wargaming Community is sufficiently intelligent and of sufficient taste. Now, take this for someone too far in the GW bubble, but I worry that they don't. I have a very strong inclination, due to the fact that GW are still miles ahead of everyone else, that rules writing, and quality in terms of depth, options and fairness are just not things gamers care about, which as a writer of wargames myself, makes me want to jump off a bridge.

Hopefully I'll turn out to be wrong, and these are two very bad years for GW once the initial spending trend falls (I expect alongside the rising cost of AoS rules), and either they spring into action or start to sink under their own weight. It's harsh to wish it on them. But I've given them many, many chances, along with every other disenchanted fan.

P.S. Sorry for the rather partisan tone, but this has been on my chest for far too long.

TLDR: GW using narrative driven games is a misnomer. It's hollow rhetoric. GW is ultimately a corporate entity and is not interested in making good games, which any literate person has probably already noticed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 17, 2015, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 16, 2015, 08:12:57 PM
Funnily I think that the "random chance" extreme can still provide for at least some enjoyment in a game. The preclusion of strategy and tactics may not be ideal, but at least you're still seeing a story play out on the tabletop, and you can still hope to be able to "roleplay" your army a bit (having your Orc army behave "Orcy", and so on).

I agree. For me, one of the chief joys of miniature gaming is the unfolding story: "like a little film," as my son says. I love, for example, the way that in Song of Blades and Heroes, a goblin warband with the Gregarious rule can be tremendously effective until the leader is slain - at which point they become scattered and craven (if any remain on the table at all).

And shouldn't a wargame be, above all, a risk/reward gamble? Boldness might win you the game, but then again, it might not pay off. So, in the SBH example above, you get rewarded for keeping your leader close to the action, but with the risk that he'll get picked off. You could play it safe by keeping the leader back, but then your troops will be less effective. If you're clever, though, you might find ways of keeping him near the front but out of danger. And that's where much of the fun comes in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 17, 2015, 02:02:16 PM
Just flicking through the Khorne Daemonkin codex and I have to wonder: How the fuck is the company that puts out really good stuff like this capable of making trash like the rest of the rules?

Then again, there's a rumour going around that this codex was made in 24 hours so the question really is if GW's QA department just ruins everything that they get their hands on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 18, 2015, 05:28:21 PM
Thought I'd interrupt my usual complaints about GW to post something I stumbled upon this morning (may be old news, dunno).  A gorgeous customized Knight by a fella.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AiwaKSHfJH0/VSRJnpBLEhI/AAAAAAAAGlw/D-Emig2H4aM/s1600/16619499327_0eb0865492_k.jpg)

From this blog post:

http://taleofpainters.blogspot.com/2015/04/showcase-space-wolves-themed-imperial.html

He did a crap-load of customization to it.  Really brings an old school epic feel.  It's a bit over the top, but for a Knight I can deal with it.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 18, 2015, 09:03:51 PM
Stunning (I can see so many additions and the painting is making me jealous).

For all the negativity GW attracts, they have a great knack for creating submersive universives. I'm sure AoS will be the same, they've just used a microwave instead of slow cooking it in an oven. Let it cool down and it'll taste good too. Just a shame they threw the old cake in the bin when it was still good eating. I wanted my cake and eat it too. Two cakes (or more) would've solved that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Humorous_Conclusion on December 18, 2015, 09:35:00 PM
Quote
For all the negativity GW attracts, they have a great knack for creating submersive universives. I'm sure AoS will be the same, they've just used a microwave instead of slow cooking it in an oven. Let it cool down and it'll taste good too. Just a shame they threw the old cake in the bin when it was still good eating. I wanted my cake and eat it too. Two cakes (or more) would've solved that.

I'm not convinced about that yet. So far, the Realms seem very very vague and the books they have put out cram very little text into an awful lot of pages. That leaves a lot of room for customisation, but, as with the rules, possibly a little too much. The players may have to do to much work, in which case, what exactly is the point of going to Games Workshop?

That said, I am probably a little biased as I'm not a big fan of the Realms very high fantasy style, I preferred the Warhammer world, which was slightly more grounded in reality.

I do very much like that customised Knight.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 18, 2015, 10:58:48 PM
Quote from: Humorous_Conclusion on December 18, 2015, 09:35:00 PM
I'm not convinced about that yet. So far, the Realms seem very very vague and the books they have put out cram very little text into an awful lot of pages. That leaves a lot of room for customisation, but, as with the rules, possibly a little too much. The players may have to do to much work, in which case, what exactly is the point of going to Games Workshop?

That strikes me as an intentional design feature as part of the new imperative to "sales optimise" the fantasy line by making the setting mimic 40K. Now there's thousands of kingdoms much like 40K has millions of planets, and everything is more diffuse so that any two races/factions could be bordering each other anywhere. It's the "everything everywhere everywhen everyhow" approach, which does have some value to wargamers who don't like fluff limitations to the effect of "The Ogre Kingdoms and Lizardmen would never encounter each other because of geography", but does also come with inherent drawbacks of its own because ultimately, fewer limitations means fewer contours. Fewer contours means fewer discernible shapes and more homogenous static. A good story needs shapes and contours.

For the most part I'm neutral to the whole "multiplanar" aspect of AoS. The Warhammer world had its own set of pros and cons, the Realms (is that what the new setting should be called?) have their own. As I mentioned earlier I don't hate the idea of multiplanar fantasy as such, but on the other hand, the Warhammer world was a venerable "old familiar" with a mood and style that became a fixture in the grand mosaic of classic fantasy.

There have been times I've felt that certain elements of the Warhammer world clash with each other, but even so, the old "core" of that setting is nothing short of delectable. That core, specifically, is the notion of a Teutonic renaissance realm of deep, dark forests and half-mad cities beset from within and without by all kinds of creatures of dark fantasy - a culture of religious zealots, witch hunters and gothic knights but also eccentric inventors, industrious engineers and wizardly academics, all of them standing defiant against beastmen, Chaos daemons, cultists, greenskins, the undead and wicked ratmen. Some other elements of the setting are decent enough as well (dwarves, elves, etc) but even they look their best when viewed through the lenses of the Empire, Chaos and other dark fantasy-styled features that are central to the setting. I hope the Warhammer world will gain more of a cult status among fantasy enthusiasts now that GW itself is, at least partly, walking away from it.

Still, I also have high hopes (laced with quite a lot of apprehension that GW may muck it up) for the re-release of Mordheim, seeing as the theme of that game really exemplifies everything that I described above as being delectable about the old Warhammer world.

Quote from: Vermis on December 17, 2015, 12:02:55 AM
I don't know if there's enough stuff in it to spark off much narrative, scenario, quasi-RPG gaming. Granted, I haven't read many of the books (that would necessitate buying them), but reports don't sound promising (fantasy bolter porn) and there's this one official campaign download I've latched onto. It involves the tribes of the Oighear, who live on a snowy plane in the realm of Metal. All we know about the plane is that it's constantly wracked with snowstorms and covered in snow, except once every thousand years there's a... storm... that... covers the plane in snow... ;D All we know about the Oighear is that they're shapeshifters, that conveniently look and behave like any models you have, and fight eachother after each millenial snowstorm.

There's such a thing as a sandbox setting, and then there's a desert.

That does sound like dreadfully bad writing...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on December 19, 2015, 12:01:24 AM
Quote from: Vermis on December 17, 2015, 12:02:55 AM
I don't know if there's enough stuff in it to spark off much narrative, scenario, quasi-RPG gaming. Granted, I haven't read many of the books (that would necessitate buying them), but reports don't sound promising (fantasy bolter porn) and there's this one official campaign download I've latched onto. It involves the tribes of the Oighear, who live on a snowy plane in the realm of Metal. All we know about the plane is that it's constantly wracked with snowstorms and covered in snow, except once every thousand years there's a... storm... that... covers the plane in snow... ;D All we know about the Oighear is that they're shapeshifters, that conveniently look and behave like any models you have, and fight eachother after each millenial snowstorm.

There's such a thing as a sandbox setting, and then there's a desert.

Hmmm didn't know they were outsourcing to the local kindergarten.  Of course, this is so devoid of imagination that I don't even know if the kid joke works...   :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Humorous_Conclusion on December 19, 2015, 11:36:35 AM
Quote
That strikes me as an intentional design feature as part of the new imperative to "sales optimise" the fantasy line by making the setting mimic 40K. Now there's thousands of kingdoms much like 40K has millions of planets, and everything is more diffuse so that any two races/factions could be bordering each other anywhere. It's the "everything everywhere everywhen everyhow" approach, which does have some value to wargamers who don't like fluff limitations to the effect of "The Ogre Kingdoms and Lizardmen would never encounter each other because of geography", but does also come with inherent drawbacks of its own because ultimately, fewer limitations means fewer contours. Fewer contours means fewer discernible shapes and more homogenous static. A good story needs shapes and contours.

I think you're probably right here. But for me, the key difference is that Warhammer 40,000 still had a recognisable style, for all its multitude of planets. Its dark fantasy gothic look is still distinctive and different from other sci-fi Universes.

The Realms, on the other hand, seem to be entirely vague at this point. As you say, fewer contours.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on December 19, 2015, 12:12:46 PM
Age of Sigmar may well be a very fine game, but the style just doesn't do it for me. Big super powered (and giant shoulder pad/weapons) fantasy isn't my thing at all - I'm interested in the people I can identify with. The plucky swordsman in the front rank who is pooing his undies as his unit advances towards hordes of undead, who hopefully aren't wearing big talll undead themed hats and rib bone robes, but are just the disturbed remains of the swordsman's own folk, heniously animated by foul magic. That swordsman is more interesting to me than Big Muscle Bastard with Axe The Size of a Road Sign who is MEGA POWERFUL.
It's not like Age of Sigmar is the only Super Power fantasy out there - far from it, but this it the GW thread and the fact that AoS replaced the Old World I knew and loved (which had been losing its more grounded style for years anyway) means that AoS bears the brunt of my whinging. If that makes me a troll, then so be it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 19, 2015, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: Gibby on December 19, 2015, 12:12:46 PM
Age of Sigmar may well be a very fine game, but the style just doesn't do it for me. Big super powered (and giant shoulder pad/weapons) fantasy isn't my thing at all - I'm interested in the people I can identify with. The plucky swordsman in the front rank who is pooing his undies as his unit advances towards hordes of undead, who hopefully aren't wearing big talll undead themed hats and rib bone robes, but are just the disturbed remains of the swordsman's own folk, heniously animated by foul magic. That swordsman is more interesting to me than Big Muscle Bastard with Axe The Size of a Road Sign who is MEGA POWERFUL.

Very well put. The outsized weapons puzzle me (and GW is not the sole culprit here, by any means). Much of the technical excellence of many modern sculpts is completely undone by the fact that the weapons are incongruously large. Rather than making them look menacing, the size of the weapons suggests that they are made out of ... foam.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 19, 2015, 02:25:30 PM
Quote from: Gibby on December 19, 2015, 12:12:46 PM
It's not like Age of Sigmar is the only Super Power fantasy out there - far from it, but this it the GW thread and the fact that AoS replaced the Old World I knew and loved (which had been losing its more grounded style for years anyway) means that AoS bears the brunt of my whinging. If that makes me a troll, then so be it.

My sentiment exactly.

Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 19, 2015, 12:24:44 PM
Very well put. The outsized weapons puzzle me (and GW is not the sole culprit here, by any means). Much of the technical excellence of many modern sculpts is completely undone by the fact that the weapons are incongruously large. Rather than making them look menacing, the size of the weapons suggests that they are made out of ... foam.

And this. I think I'm getting to the point where I have trouble understanding why others jump up and down in excitement because of some mini waving about a coffee-table-onna-stick. "Don't you have eyes...?"
Giant weapons are vanity, IMO, in a couple of senses of the word. It's that guy with the axe blade not much bigger than his hand that you have to watch out for. He's the one that means business, not the poser (in a couple of senses of the word!) trying hard to convince you with his makeshift metal manhood.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on December 19, 2015, 04:29:07 PM
It's why I roll my eyes at novels where a character has named his/her sword/primary fighting weapon. No weapon would last more than a few fights, unless you never intended to use it. So yeah, vanity really. Obviously the odd fantasy weapon made of a borderline magical material so it never breaks gets around that, but it needn't be a coffee table-on-a-stick as Vermis so wonderfully phrased it. If a weapon not only looks too massive and daft to fight with, but also too massive and daft to even lift, then its wielder is a superbeing who I already fail to identify with and drama is automatically lost for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 19, 2015, 05:10:42 PM
I don't really have an issue with a fair bit of the oversized weapons. It's part of the aesthetic of Warhammer's Heroic Styling, and again, rolling that back now could have an adverse affect on those who do like that sort of thing. Mind you, it's possible to find a suitable middle-ground. I rather like Felix Paniagua's Avatars of War (http://www.avatars-of-war.com/eng/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129&Itemid=143&armycode=Warthrone+new+releases) range for this. The weapons and designs are very characterful, but without overdoing it.

I definitely feel there's a cold, contrived element to GW's more recent designs, almost as if they're trying too hard but completely missing the point.

What puts me off isn't the aesthetic, but the characterisation. Fluff of the Wardian variety, immersed in Marty Stus/Mary Sues who shrug off competition and never face a real challenge. The fiction is full of it, and I was already turned off Black Library by the likes of Malus Darkblade, and multitudes of Space Marine porn before they gave a more general and impressively stupid reason to not read those books (the "there is no canon", and "all of it's true and none of its true" shenanigans. Black Library basically admitting that their fluff is of no importance or relevance whatsoever, so you'd have to be an idiot to buy it, really).

I agree with Gibby though about a bit of relatable humanity. Pathos. It is so utterly missing from recent GW work. Everything has to be bigger than some simple idea. Take Ollanius Pious, the human guardsman who stood between the Emperor and Horus in a crucial moment. A point of sacrifice from a simple man who had no chance against a primarch, but probably one of the most interesting scenes in the Horus Heresy, and so GW changed it. Ollanius was ascended to an Immortal, so no mere human. It made the simple act so contrived, like every single minor idea has to be connected, like the Prequel Star Wars trilogy...

Sadly, it seems the gamers buy this bullshit. I hold on to a melancholy tale of the coolest army concept I ever heard of for WHFB. A poster from one of my other forums mentioned it: a Storm of Chaos Empire themed army, made up mostly of Militia, and a few other bits. The theme was a ragtag army made up of surviving villagers from Archaon's attacks, forming together into regiments, mostly civilians, some City Guard (Men at Arms), an old monument (Cannon) and carrying other things, such as each Militia unit having a standard that was each made from the signs of their destroyed Village's taverns. When he posted the idea up on a Warhammer forum, people concentrated on the fact that it was a shit army list. He was so discouraged, he never bothered to make it, which is tragic, really.

That's the saddest thing about WHFB. It was wasted on WHFB players. They have what they deserve now, imo. Banality, to match their taste. It's such a shame they've suddenly found standards for once. One wonders where they were for most of 8th Edition.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 19, 2015, 05:13:50 PM
Quote from: Humorous_Conclusion on December 19, 2015, 11:36:35 AM
The Realms, on the other hand, seem to be entirely vague at this point. As you say, fewer contours.

The funny thing is, I think that if one pares down the setting to its central-most theme - Sigmar and Chaos - it does have a flavour. It's Wagnerian angel-knights versus horrors of hell, fighting over hyper-magical realms of flying islands, waterfalls many kilometers high, eternal lava-flows, etc etc.

There's two big problems with this, though. First, it reduces all the classic mortal Warhammer factions to bit players. Now when a player brings his or her Empire troops, Wood Elves, Dwarves or whatever, then for purposes of the grand AoS story they're just "some random blokes from some random kingdom" getting swept along in a war that isn't really theirs to win or lose.

Second, "Heaven vs Hell" is a terribly one-dimensional theme with little room for complexity or nuance. Even granting that they downplayed the biblical connotations (a good idea in and of itself) and emphasised some other connotations in their stead (there's quite a bit of Wagner in there, a bit of astrological mysticism, a bit of fantasy esotericism to the effect of celestial dragons and the Chaos gods, etc), it's just not all that fleshed-out of a theme. In 40K, the Imperium of Man is an incredibly complex thing full of subtlety and contradiction, like some baroque piece of art that never stops giving. Its new counterpart in AoS, the whole Sigmar/Azyrheim faction, is a pale and flat imitation.

Funnily I wouldn't hate the thought, in and of itself, of a fleshed-out setting that's entirely focused on the whole celestial/immortal/hyper-magical/multiplanar aspect of fantasy with numerous factions that are all "beyond mere mortals" - for instance, a third faction (beyond the first two of Sigmarines and Chaos) could be some sort of celestial dragonkin of a sphinx-like mentality fighting for their own cause, a fourth could be Sigmarines breaking away from the rule of Sigmar to form a rebel faction that still fights for the cause of order but uses less wholesome means to do so, a fifth faction could be the followers of some sort of "trickster god" who's never fully on one side or the other, a sixth could be a society of transcendent esoteric wizards using golem-like constructs as their armies, and so on. But - and I want to stress this - that's an entirely different kind of setting, and to speak of displacing or eclipsing the Warhammer world with that other thing would be a fundamentally misguided conversation. It's like if GW was to scrub away the whole 40K setting because they've decided they'd rather do cyberpunk instead. (To be clear, I'm saying that as someone who likes cyberpunk.)


TLDR: GW right now is trying to make a new fantasy setting by mixing stuff from the old Warhammer world with new, rather different stuff, even when the new and old don't really mix very well. The new "angels vs daemons" paradigm is a bit flat by itself, while at the same time eclipsing the old, "quaint" Warhammer races/nations/factions and turning them into bit parts. In a world where immortals wage war, mortals are but ants in the undergrowth.


Quote from: Gibby on December 19, 2015, 12:12:46 PM
If that makes me a troll, then so be it.

It doesn't, though. That's not what an internet troll is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on December 19, 2015, 06:24:41 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 19, 2015, 05:10:42 PM
I don't really have an issue with a fair bit of the oversized weapons. It's part of the aesthetic of Warhammer's Heroic Styling, and again, rolling that back now could have an adverse affect on those who do like that sort of thing. Mind you, it's possible to find a suitable middle-ground. I rather like Felix Paniagua's Avatars of War (http://www.avatars-of-war.com/eng/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129&Itemid=143&armycode=Warthrone+new+releases) range for this. The weapons and designs are very characterful, but without overdoing it.

I fully accept that this is a subjective issue, and I own some figures whose weapons are a bit too big, but they aren't impossibly big or absurd. When done well, an oversized weapon compliments the style of the figure, but does not define it.

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 19, 2015, 05:10:42 PM
What puts me off isn't the aesthetic, but the characterisation. Fluff of the Wardian variety, immersed in Marty Stus/Mary Sues who shrug off competition and never face a real challenge. The fiction is full of it, and I was already turned off Black Library by the likes of Malus Darkblade, and multitudes of Space Marine porn before they gave a more general and impressively stupid reason to not read those books (the "there is no canon", and "all of it's true and none of its true" shenanigans. Black Library basically admitting that their fluff is of no importance or relevance whatsoever, so you'd have to be an idiot to buy it, really).

Nothing turns me off a setting quicker than blatant inconsistency. Sure, contradictions may arise with a setting as old as the ones we discuss, but those should always be minor and feel more like the sort of conflicted accounts we have with our own history. Even worse is when a setting loses any sense of boundary, because for me "anything goes" is like saying "nothing matters". It may indeed be a failing of my imagination, but it leaves me cold and I cannot really get immersed if I don't have some kind of grasp of at least some measure of internal truth to a setting. Perhaps I'm a bit of a saddo that this is an issue for me?

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 19, 2015, 05:10:42 PM
I agree with Gibby though about a bit of relatable humanity. Pathos. It is so utterly missing from recent GW work. Everything has to be bigger than some simple idea. Take Ollanius Pious, the human guardsman who stood between the Emperor and Horus in a crucial moment. A point of sacrifice from a simple man who had no chance against a primarch, but probably one of the most interesting scenes in the Horus Heresy, and so GW changed it. Ollanius was ascended to an Immortal, so no mere human. It made the simple act so contrived, like every single minor idea has to be connected, like the Prequel Star Wars trilogy...

First I've heard of that retcon, and that is indeed a flagship representation of how to ruin the humanity of a story.

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 19, 2015, 05:10:42 PM
Sadly, it seems the gamers buy this bullshit. I hold on to a melancholy tale of the coolest army concept I ever heard of for WHFB. A poster from one of my other forums mentioned it: a Storm of Chaos Empire themed army, made up mostly of Militia, and a few other bits. The theme was a ragtag army made up of surviving villagers from Archaon's attacks, forming together into regiments, mostly civilians, some City Guard (Men at Arms), an old monument (Cannon) and carrying other things, such as each Militia unit having a standard that was each made from the signs of their destroyed Village's taverns. When he posted the idea up on a Warhammer forum, people concentrated on the fact that it was a shit army list. He was so discouraged, he never bothered to make it, which is tragic, really.

That's the saddest thing about WHFB. It was wasted on WHFB players. They have what they deserve now, imo. Banality, to match their taste. It's such a shame they've suddenly found standards for once. One wonders where they were for most of 8th Edition.

You are 100% correct. A couple of years before I discovered the LAF, I was on The Warhammer Forum. The majority of people there, and this isn't a criticism really, were tournament style mega competitive gamers. They had no concept of playing an army purely based on fluff or a particular story; if it was a shit list it was a shit list, and so playing it would be a waste of time. The sad thing is, it is a big of a Borg Collective type situation. Imagine you start out as a thematic, story driven player because you came to Warhammer after reading one of the good novels. You build an army much like the one you describe (which, by the way, I would be delighted to see and play as or against), and take it to the club. After your 10th crushing defeat against players taking army lists they read online, you think "bollocks, I may as well take a list to counter what they've done so I have a chance". Suddenly, another hyper competitive tourny player has appeared.

It's a rant for another time and another place, but I notice a trend around the web and wargaming community of blaming rules for a lack of balance, but there rarely seem any mention of a players' own responsibilities in creating a fun time for them and their opponent. Ignoring the saddos who get kicks out of winning an unlosable game, you often see people taking and/or looking for the most optimum lists for games, before ever playing or wondering about what the story-based theme of their army is. You even see threads in the Frostgrave folder here of people asking what the best starting lists are, etc. Just freaking play and try stuff out! Build an army/force/gang around a story driven idea and then tweak it to make it at least useful - and take it from there. The bigger a game gets, the harder it will be to balance in and of itself - players have a duty to not be dicks with the army lists. Just saying. The players who are so tournament driven that they cannot bear the idea of a ruleset not being perfectly fine tuned to allow for a level playing field all the time, with all 15 factions, should just play Chess with wargaming figures. IMO. Etc.

(Turns out that rant was for here and now... sorry :()

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 19, 2015, 05:13:50 PM
It doesn't, though. That's not what an internet troll is.

Well, it's been implied here that criticism of GW/AoS is the work of bitter trolls who haven't even looked into what they criticise. I feel the need to just add the armour of a disclaimer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Humorous_Conclusion on December 19, 2015, 09:45:01 PM
Quote
Sadly, it seems the gamers buy this bullshit. I hold on to a melancholy tale of the coolest army concept I ever heard of for WHFB. A poster from one of my other forums mentioned it: a Storm of Chaos Empire themed army, made up mostly of Militia, and a few other bits. The theme was a ragtag army made up of surviving villagers from Archaon's attacks, forming together into regiments, mostly civilians, some City Guard (Men at Arms), an old monument (Cannon) and carrying other things, such as each Militia unit having a standard that was each made from the signs of their destroyed Village's taverns. When he posted the idea up on a Warhammer forum, people concentrated on the fact that it was a shit army list. He was so discouraged, he never bothered to make it, which is tragic, really.

I never had any time for the hyper-competitive stuff. My armies, for all games, have always been either a mix of the models I like best or based around a specific theme. II have never cared about building an effective army. And I actually like the random elements of 8th edition.

Possibly that's why all the talk about AOS rules making for more story-based less competitive gaming has left me cold, because that was how I always played it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 20, 2015, 12:41:53 AM
Quote from: Gibby on December 19, 2015, 06:24:41 PM
I fully accept that this is a subjective issue, and I own some figures whose weapons are a bit too big, but they aren't impossibly big or absurd. When done well, an oversized weapon compliments the style of the figure, but does not define it.

I don't think GW's too bad for this kind of trope. I'd point at other companies first.

Quote
Nothing turns me off a setting quicker than blatant inconsistency. Sure, contradictions may arise with a setting as old as the ones we discuss, but those should always be minor and feel more like the sort of conflicted accounts we have with our own history. Even worse is when a setting loses any sense of boundary, because for me "anything goes" is like saying "nothing matters". It may indeed be a failing of my imagination, but it leaves me cold and I cannot really get immersed if I don't have some kind of grasp of at least some measure of internal truth to a setting. Perhaps I'm a bit of a saddo that this is an issue for me?

Well I feel precisely the same, and I am a saddo, so... lol

Quote
It's a rant for another time and another place, but I notice a trend around the web and wargaming community of blaming rules for a lack of balance, but there rarely seem any mention of a players' own responsibilities in creating a fun time for them and their opponent... The bigger a game gets, the harder it will be to balance in and of itself - players have a duty to not be dicks with the army lists. Just saying. The players who are so tournament driven that they cannot bear the idea of a ruleset not being perfectly fine tuned to allow for a level playing field all the time, with all 15 factions, should just play Chess with wargaming figures. IMO. Etc.

I get where you're coming from, but I do think that GW's core two still bear a fair bit of the blame because they're both centred so much around listbuilding and pretty unbalanced. The latter, not just because the games were so big, but because what hints I've heard of the studio indicated that they thought everyone played free 'n' easy and that minimal playtesting resulted in 'ballpark' points costs. (The state of AoS is maybe less surprising if that's true) In other games, a bit more attention to playtesting and a bit more focus on tabletop action mean that there may not be such as thing as a bad list, no matter how fluffy. Or at least, less disparity (and less kerbstomping) between good and bad lists.

Or maybe I'm talking nonsense. I dunno. I do know I'm thinking of plenty of fluffy lists for Dragon Rampant and I'm not too worried. ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 22, 2015, 05:52:00 AM
Quote from: Gibby on December 19, 2015, 06:24:41 PM
Nothing turns me off a setting quicker than blatant inconsistency. Sure, contradictions may arise with a setting as old as the ones we discuss, but those should always be minor and feel more like the sort of conflicted accounts we have with our own history. Even worse is when a setting loses any sense of boundary, because for me "anything goes" is like saying "nothing matters". It may indeed be a failing of my imagination, but it leaves me cold and I cannot really get immersed if I don't have some kind of grasp of at least some measure of internal truth to a setting. Perhaps I'm a bit of a saddo that this is an issue for me?

As far as I'm concerned, absolutely not. You hit the nail on the head with Inconsistency. GW frequently runs with this sort of enforced unreliable narration, yet, it is very selectively unreliable. There are things that the Imperium should not know about, and yet are stated as plain facts without any hint of it being second hand information. For me, it's always been a problem with 40k. My specialist area is Orks (I'm the kind of Saddo who writes articles about them) and there's always been that enforced mystery. It's funniest in the first book from Rogue Trader. In Waaargh the Orks!, the introduction discusses the mysterious Brainboyz, who could have been Snotlings perhaps, and how did it happen? On the next page it tells you.

Personally, I'm rather tired of the Imperial Centric certainties. Because I have barely any interest in the Imperium. Most of the races/factions that I like are constantly up in the air, and for no good reason. For years, Ork Players have become accustomed to Andy Chamber's fluff on resonance and sporing. These things are, I feel, really good sci fi, rather above GW's usual stamp. So naturally I was a bit pissed when the recent book handwaves all of these "complicated" bits with what is essentially "Well the Orks don't care, nor should you", which funnily enough reads to me as: "We can't be bothered to stick our neck out on anything about Ork Origin and Depth above the usual dross we typically write about, even if all we had to do was copy it from every other Ork book since Gorkamorka that included it."

I just don't get GW. They're sitting on a gold mine of brilliant fluff. They barely have to invent anything. So why they insist on changing things, which only tends to annoy their existing customers anyway is entirely beyond me.

Quote from: Gibby on December 19, 2015, 06:24:41 PM
It's a rant for another time and another place, but I notice a trend around the web and wargaming community of blaming rules for a lack of balance, but there rarely seem any mention of a players' own responsibilities in creating a fun time for them and their opponent. Ignoring the saddos who get kicks out of winning an unlosable game, you often see people taking and/or looking for the most optimum lists for games, before ever playing or wondering about what the story-based theme of their army is. You even see threads in the Frostgrave folder here of people asking what the best starting lists are, etc. Just freaking play and try stuff out! Build an army/force/gang around a story driven idea and then tweak it to make it at least useful - and take it from there. The bigger a game gets, the harder it will be to balance in and of itself - players have a duty to not be dicks with the army lists. Just saying. The players who are so tournament driven that they cannot bear the idea of a ruleset not being perfectly fine tuned to allow for a level playing field all the time, with all 15 factions, should just play Chess with wargaming figures. IMO. Etc.

Whilst this is very true, I think it's possible to overstate the responsibility of players. I mean sure, it is an issue that can be overlooked, but it takes two to tango. GW have been manipulating the shit out of powergaming for at least a decade now. During mid 4th-late 5th Edition 40k, this was particularly prevalent, and GW promoted it. It's hard to tell whether these new, less deliberately power-gamey changes in tone have had much to do with them actually addressing criticism from disgruntled fans (given 40k's, and now AoS' ludicrous PAY TO WIN nonsense, I seriously doubt it) or just trying to hand off as much work and responsibility from themselves to the gullible morons who buy from them, is anyone's guess.

(Yes, I am still also in the gullible moron category, and that why I feel I can call them gullible morons. We are.)

Blaming the fans is difficult, when GW have fostered and created that community to begin with. Recent impressions suggest that they might be trying to shrug off that stance, but the fact is, their games haven't changed enough to suggest they actually have, only that their rhetoric has changed. I feel that change is to make it abundantly clear what they're not prepared to do, which seems to be making a decent wargame and making fans happy. Sure, big games get hard to balance, but it's not as if GW have tried to balance their games at all in the past decade. Quite the reverse. In most cases, the most recent 3 publications are always better than everything else (this is even true of AoS: there is clearly a massive gap between the free rules updates and the 3 books you pay for), and the most recent will probably be equipped the clobber the previous.

It's all about power and politics. GW are entirely sales orientated. They don't care about anything else, and their rules writing (calling it writing is generous) shows this utterly clearly. Their fanbase goes along with it, because the alternative is either developing taste and quitting, or trying to change their local gaming group (and having known a few gaming groups I'd probably rather stand in front of a firing squad than try that one). Ultimately, the only people in this whole situation with the power to change and influence enough people are GW, and their corporate interests are better served in having twitchy, insecure and over-competitive power gaming douche bags than genuine human beings.

It is possible that letting go of so much of their control over how gamers play will end up costing them (making gamers competent enough to realise that they actually deserve better) or whether they'll get away with it, who knows. Certainly, the fostering insecurities has been costing them for years. The amount of loyal customers is dwindling by the year. They've had a sales boost recently, but if we discount WHFB players panic buying before their ranges disappear, and the few people like me who got a massive hobby injection from the new game, and of course, affordable pre-heresy space marines, it's still the same failing company. It's like I said. Their sales people know how to make a shit year look like an okay one. But like sales people across the globe, they have no idea what sells.

Quote from: Gibby on December 19, 2015, 06:24:41 PM
Well, it's been implied here that criticism of GW/AoS is the work of bitter trolls who haven't even looked into what they criticise. I feel the need to just add the armour of a disclaimer.

We can move this beyond implications if you like. I'm still relatively active on a few GW forums. Any criticism I've had for the company has usually resulted in this assertion being levelled at me. It is one of the multitudes of rather tiresome "White Knight Stock Arguments", as I've come to call them. Defenders of GW insist they are a point of strength. I'd say as it shows White Knights invariably make things personal, I'd say it's not only a point of weakness but incredibly telling. The White Knights don't have anything else. Because the "trolls" tend to be the ones using logic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 22, 2015, 08:14:27 AM
I think that if you want to see the worst of the GW community you just need to go to a certain Subreddit which uses the name of the principal IP and /r/Warhammer40k bans all discussion of. The list of rules is so long and convoluted that they can ban anything and everything (and frequently do) if they don't like it being discussed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 22, 2015, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 22, 2015, 05:52:00 AM
Their fanbase goes along with it, because the alternative is either developing taste and quitting, or trying to change their local gaming group (and having known a few gaming groups I'd probably rather stand in front of a firing squad than try that one). Ultimately, the only people in this whole situation with the power to change and influence enough people are GW, and their corporate interests are better served in having twitchy, insecure and over-competitive power gaming douche bags than genuine human beings.

It is possible that letting go of so much of their control over how gamers play will end up costing them (making gamers competent enough to realise that they actually deserve better) or whether they'll get away with it, who knows. Certainly, the fostering insecurities has been costing them for years...

We can move this beyond implications if you like. I'm still relatively active on a few GW forums. Any criticism I've had for the company has usually resulted in this assertion being levelled at me. It is one of the multitudes of rather tiresome "White Knight Stock Arguments", as I've come to call them. Defenders of GW insist they are a point of strength. I'd say as it shows White Knights invariably make things personal, I'd say it's not only a point of weakness but incredibly telling. The White Knights don't have anything else. Because the "trolls" tend to be the ones using logic.

Man, I've been seeing and getting some of that myself - what you say about fostering insecurities resonates with me at the moment. People have to stick with 40K because others nearby already play it, because they've spent too much money to stop spending money, because they can't use the minis with  other games, because they like the fluff, because people who try to promote other games are sad, because they live too far from a city... ;D Sometimes it feels like people'll pull anything out of their hat to justify sticking with a game that they might not actually like all that much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 22, 2015, 05:22:27 PM
Kind of sad, isn't it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 22, 2015, 05:27:32 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 22, 2015, 03:31:35 PM
actually GW is pretty savvy in one sense which is they accept the reality of gamers more than the gamers do themselves.

This is most gamers don't actually game but instead talk about gaming. In fact actual gaming is in reality a tiny fraction of the hobby.

For some, it seems that actual gaming is not even a part at all.
But they still talk about it as if it is......


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 22, 2015, 06:05:10 PM
I remember distinctly my "eureka!" moment.  I'd been across the country for several years, sans any gaming (at all) for around four years.  Had still purchased a bunch of stuff, stocked up as it were, thinking ahead.  Moved back to the East coast and unboxed a bunch of Eldar stuff I'd stockpiled.  Started assembling it, painting some...and then it just hit me.  "I don't like this game...this is an awful lot of work for something I don't enjoy playing.". 

I quit that evening.  Ebay'ed everything and that was it.  I liked the fluff etc., but without my old college buddies and an older gen. of the game to play, I wasn't ever going to really use all the Exodite dragon knights I was converting.  I'm in a bit of the same place now with the BoC stuff...though I'll end up painting it and probably play with another system , or, worst case, sell it off on ebay.

Oddly when I quit 40K I moved into Warhammer Historicals (LOTOW etc.) and then from there started making my own stuff and buying up lots of rulebooks for various genres.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 22, 2015, 06:36:14 PM
Can't argue too much with that, Scurv. lol

I had something similar, Elbows. I didn't ebay everything (so I still have a bunch of stuff for DR, KoW, Mayhem etc. Obsessive hoarding justified! ;D ) but for me it was "does it really matter if ogre bulls take ironfists instead of extra hand weapons?" (Mind you, being cleared out of the local GW helped too) And then, yup, trying other games and genres.

Been through a bit of an 'actually gaming, actually' drought meself, though. I'll have to fix that in '16.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 22, 2015, 06:42:23 PM
The one thing I do consistently believe, and see is that GW are great:

at making a lot of intelligent people who like playing miniature games play other companies games.

Which is a great and magnanimous gesture for a collectibles manufacturer - as they are clearly a success in their field, and are helping non - GW  collectible hobby enthusiasts go elsewhere to give their money to real miniatures producers/games companies instead, which helps that industry no end.

As I am not in the field as such for collectible highly detailed mulitpart kits as such I much appreciate their assistance and eye watering pricing encouragement in not giving them my money, consistently, apart from some occasional starter box purchases...  ::)

Yay for GW, thanks for all the help finding other things to do  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 22, 2015, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 22, 2015, 06:05:10 PM
Oddly when I quit 40K I moved into Warhammer Historicals (LOTOW etc.) and then from there started making my own stuff and buying up lots of rulebooks for various genres.

Warhammer Historical is how I transitioned away from GW as well. It was WAB Andalusians in my case. Not a fan of WAB as a set of rules anymore, but I do owe it a debt. I'm starting to reach the point where I feel nostalgic thumbing through the WAB supplements. It's not often acknowledged, but Warhammer Historical did a lot for the "indie" miniature wargaming industry in terms of setting new standards for rulebook production values and stuff like that. It was something of a lodestar that way - no wonder GW had to kill it with fire. Now I can't even get hold of Legends of the High Seas for a reasonable price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 22, 2015, 08:36:24 PM
Oh yeah...their Historicals books were simply brilliant by the end.  They had just released a few huge massive tomes when they quite production.  The Gladiator rulebook and their WW1 book were beautiful products (rules were okay). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 22, 2015, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 22, 2015, 03:31:35 PM
actually GW is pretty savvy in one sense which is they accept the reality of gamers more than the gamers do themselves.

This is most gamers don't actually game but instead talk about gaming. In fact actual gaming is in reality a tiny fraction of the hobby.

They're really not that savvy. Because the talk bit is where they lose most of their customers. I mean, for a company to not realise that communication between Customers, often discussing shoddy rules writing and blatant overpowered bullshit just makes people like the gaming side even less, doesn't actually suggest that these people know what they're doing.

So really, GW are saying the game is marginal because they're not prepared to improve it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 22, 2015, 09:56:53 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 22, 2015, 09:06:51 PM
They're really not that savvy. Because the talk bit is where they lose most of their customers. I mean, for a company to not realise that communication between Customers, often discussing shoddy rules writing and blatant overpowered bullshit just makes people like the gaming side even less, doesn't actually suggest that these people know what they're doing.

So really, GW are saying the game is marginal because they're not prepared to improve it.

Their refusal to learn how computers and technology works really highlights this. Even the oldest and stodgiest of corporations have found themselves having to develop an online presence to compete economically and GW's refusal to engage with their community in any way is starting to show the strain.

Places that could be considered "unfriendly" are the first port of call for interaction with the community and it drives away new blood.

GW probably thinks it'd cost too much to hire an English or Marketing graduate on minimum wage to manage forums, Twitter and Facebook etc, though. Once again saving a penny to lose a pound.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 22, 2015, 10:02:48 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 22, 2015, 08:36:24 PM
Oh yeah...their Historicals books were simply brilliant by the end.  They had just released a few huge massive tomes when they quite production.  The Gladiator rulebook and their WW1 book were beautiful products (rules were okay).  

Oh, wow. I had totally forgotten about Gladiator.

I really do think that we all (at least all of us who appreciate high production values in rulebooks from minor companies) owe a debt to Warhammer Historical for leading the way. The WAB books were not quite on par with the books from "GW proper" at the time (artwork tended to be somewhat amateurish, not counting the covers which were always beautiful) but that just helped prove that a good balance could be struck between budget constraints and production values - a balance that could be striven for by small companies that didn't have GW-level resources but nevertheless wanted to up the game from the old, dingy DBx standard. It's been an upward spiral from there, more and more parties entering the scene with increasingly well-produced rulebooks.

Of course, Warhammer Historical upped its own game as well. The later books (Legends of the Old West, Legends of the High Seas (I think), Gladiator, etc) were a step up from the WAB supplements.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on December 22, 2015, 10:46:26 PM
Quote from: nullBolt on December 22, 2015, 09:56:53 PM
Their refusal to learn how computers and technology works really highlights this. Even the oldest and stodgiest of corporations have found themselves having to develop an online presence to compete economically and GW's refusal to engage with their community in any way is starting to show the strain.

Well, they did have their own forum in the early 00s. In fact, they were even quite early adopters compared to many other companies and the countless phpBB/vBulletin/whatever fan forums that started popping up later. The forum had some good bits. For example, I ended up discussing with the designers right there a couple of times. But of course, the bad and the ugly were also there. Just take a look at any current GW forum, add the option to rant directly to the staff, and you should get an idea of how it went.

Long story short, eventually the forums were closed. Apparently the conclusion was "never again" and that policy has been in effect for more than a decade now. :-I

Quote
GW probably thinks it'd cost too much to hire an English or Marketing graduate on minimum wage to manage forums, Twitter and Facebook etc, though.

I think they already found out that one, ten or even a hundred graduates cannot really manage forums. However, they could post a bit more than just an occasional tacky YouTube video - with the comments switched off, obviously.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 22, 2015, 10:53:34 PM
Quote from: nullBolt on December 22, 2015, 09:56:53 PM
Their refusal to learn how computers and technology works really highlights this. Even the oldest and stodgiest of corporations have found themselves having to develop an online presence to compete economically and GW's refusal to engage with their community in any way is starting to show the strain.

Places that could be considered "unfriendly" are the first port of call for interaction with the community and it drives away new blood.

GW probably thinks it'd cost too much to hire an English or Marketing graduate on minimum wage to manage forums, Twitter and Facebook etc, though. Once again saving a penny to lose a pound.

(I was writing this while Dolmot posted.)

I remember GW briefly having an official forum after one of the website overhauls, 10+ years ago. IIRC they got Paul Sawyer to be the moderator/admin - or at least, he had some sort of official role on the forum engaging with the fanbase. It did not go well at all. People seemed to assume that because Sawyer jocularly titled himself "Fat Bloke" in White Dwarf, they were allowed to call him a fat idiot, which (unsurprisingly) he did not take well. I may be misremembering but I think it wasn't long afterwards that Sawyer left the company for greener... erm, pastures.

Also, more generally, the discussion didn't really take the forms that GW had been wanting. They wanted sycophancy and brainwashed enthusiasm, which would help the "GW hobby" look good to curious newcomers. What they got was sass and discord. They quickly scrapped the forum.

I would argue, though, that it is precisely because GW is so keen on sycophancy and brainwashed enthusiasm, that it keeps getting sass and discord instead. People look at the GW hype machine, and they see purple kool-aid.

It's an evil circle, but GW deserves the caustic fanbase it has, and the GW fanbase deserves the cynical, dishonest Moloch of a company it has.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 22, 2015, 10:59:23 PM
That was the 2nd forum I ever joined, and remember the daily carnage and chaos. Talk about hard moderation. It was like North Korea wanting to talk about Glorious Leader, and finishing with everyone ranting about how awful things were. It was a sea of locked topics.

I was there the day it died. Well deserved, honestly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 23, 2015, 06:56:12 AM
Quote from: Dolmot on December 22, 2015, 10:46:26 PM
<snip>
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 22, 2015, 10:53:34 PM
<snip>
Quote from: grant on December 22, 2015, 10:59:23 PM
<snip>

Honestly, guys, that sounds great. :D Great fun.

Quote from: Dolmot on December 22, 2015, 10:46:26 PM
I think they already found out that one, ten or even a hundred graduates cannot really manage forums. However, they could post a bit more than just an occasional tacky YouTube video - with the comments switched off, obviously.

You have to think of forums as a barely controlled fire. You don't want to burn yourself with it but you need the heat in order to survive.

Also, you might be able to, y'know, actually do market research and adjust your corporation to fit the wants and needs of your customers.

Quote from: Rhoderic on December 22, 2015, 10:53:34 PM
Also, more generally, the discussion didn't really take the forms that GW had been wanting. They wanted sycophancy and brainwashed enthusiasm, which would help the "GW hobby" look good to curious newcomers. What they got was sass and discord. They quickly scrapped the forum.

I would argue, though, that it is precisely because GW is so keen on sycophancy and brainwashed enthusiasm, that it keeps getting sass and discord instead. People look at the GW hype machine, and they see purple kool-aid.

I do wonder if the corporate part of GW is CONVINCED that people are enthusiastic and happy about their product and always confused that they're losing money year after year. They don't have any realistic expectations of their customers and so have no idea of what to do.

Also, what I imagine a conversation down in Nottingham is like:

(https://i.imgflip.com/w7x8f.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 23, 2015, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: Vermis on December 22, 2015, 12:14:28 PM
Man, I've been seeing and getting some of that myself - what you say about fostering insecurities resonates with me at the moment. People have to stick with 40K because others nearby already play it, because they've spent too much money to stop spending money, because they can't use the minis with  other games, because they like the fluff, because people who try to promote other games are sad, because they live too far from a city... ;D Sometimes it feels like people'll pull anything out of their hat to justify sticking with a game that they might not actually like all that much.

I think the attitudes you describe here are odd but interesting. I can never understand why people who like the 40K background and models don't just use them with better rules - Ganesha's Flying Lead or Mutants with Death Ray Guns, for example, or some of the interesting "modern" rule sets like Chain of Command or Crossfire (I'm sure there are many more good examples).

Another thing I don't quite get is the importance of "fluff" to a wargame, as opposed to an RPG. Surely the only point of it (other than a guide to painting) is to help generate scenarios or narrative campaigns. Yet don't most 40K players just play straight fights?

It all seems a far cry from the games of 40K I remember playing as a kid. Most of those pitted bands of "primitives" (usually Slann, lizardmen or orcs), led by a few higher-tech agitators, against smaller groups of high-tech "colonialists". This was largely because we had plenty of primitives from WHFB, but only a few 40K figures. But those games were terrific ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on December 23, 2015, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 23, 2015, 10:48:34 AM
I think the attitudes you describe here are odd but interesting. I can never understand why people who like the 40K background and models don't just use them with better rules...

Another thing I don't quite get is the importance of "fluff" to a wargame, as opposed to an RPG. Surely the only point of it (other than a guide to painting) is to help generate scenarios or narrative campaigns. Yet don't most 40K players just play straight fights?

It's a headscratcher alright. But one of the biggest reasons I can think of, is what some of those examples are used to argue against - that GW still does a good job in conditioning gamers and their expectations.

When you see some of those arguments first hand: about people who refuse to use KoW rules - despite all the ex-WFB players who moved to them and like them - because they don't like the Mantica fluff; people who tell you that's perfectly valid logic; people who think you have to stick with 40K when you live more than half an hour away from a city and it's high-falutin', 'cosmopolitan' gaming...
That last one was levelled at me recently, in rebuttal of GW fostering a certain attitude, and because I just didn't understand. It still gets me. The only thing resembling a city round here is a full hour away, and that's the place where I'm most likely to find a game of 40K.

It gets a bit freaky. I'm just waiting for someone to tell me how wrong I am, and argue that they have to keep playing 40K, not because of a constrained, GW-centric view of gaming (or even the more valid reason that they only have a GW store for gaming) but because of the phases of the moon, or because there was a gunman on the grassy knoll, or something.

(Ah, the old GW forums. They were a mess. But I have fond memories of Kroot Knarlocs. lol )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: baldlea on December 23, 2015, 01:18:29 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 23, 2015, 10:48:34 AM
I can never understand why people who like the 40K background and models don't just use them with better rules ...
Another thing I don't quite get is the importance of "fluff" to a wargame, as opposed to an RPG. Surely the only point of it (other than a guide to painting) is to help generate scenarios or narrative campaigns. Yet don't most 40K players just play straight fights?

This is exactly what we have started to do using the Clash on the Fringe rules. The writer openly says they are a "love letter" to Rogue Trader. They work well as a modern interpretation RT.

I think the straight fights thing comes comes from the same place as the enduring popularity of crunchy RPGs over light, story based ones. Geeks like numbers, I suppose.

Even if players do want scenario driven games, as discussed already...gamers talk more about playing than playing. So when the opportunity arises, a straight "balanced" fight is quicker to organise than setting up a scenario. This is also true if you want to use a different ruleset to enact your favourite background - it takes time to "stat up" fluff into another system.

[Worded badly...can't be bothered to fix]
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 23, 2015, 01:48:00 PM
Quote from: baldlea on December 23, 2015, 01:18:29 PM
.

I think the straight fights thing comes comes from the same place as the enduring popularity of crunchy RPGs over light, story based ones. Geeks like numbers, I suppose.


I think this is one of the reasons 40k remains the system of choice for many. because of it's popularity, it's easier for people to get away with calling it tactical/competititive/serious bizznuz ect ect...and then exploit the numbers to kill all the fun.
(because god knows 90% of the people i have played against in GW stores didn't give a damn about narratve/fluff ect , they just wanted to spam 200 tanks.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 23, 2015, 07:34:39 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 23, 2015, 10:48:34 AM
I think the attitudes you describe here are odd but interesting. I can never understand why people who like the 40K background and models don't just use them with better rules - Ganesha's Flying Lead or Mutants with Death Ray Guns, for example, or some of the interesting "modern" rule sets like Chain of Command or Crossfire (I'm sure there are many more good examples).

Another thing I don't quite get is the importance of "fluff" to a wargame, as opposed to an RPG. Surely the only point of it (other than a guide to painting) is to help generate scenarios or narrative campaigns. Yet don't most 40K players just play straight fights?

It all seems a far cry from the games of 40K I remember playing as a kid. Most of those pitted bands of "primitives" (usually Slann, lizardmen or orcs), led by a few higher-tech agitators, against smaller groups of high-tech "colonialists". This was largely because we had plenty of primitives from WHFB, but only a few 40K figures. But those games were terrific ...
A lot of savage orcs were used as 40k stand ins.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Humorous_Conclusion on December 23, 2015, 08:43:09 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 22, 2015, 10:53:34 PM
I would argue, though, that it is precisely because GW is so keen on sycophancy and brainwashed enthusiasm, that it keeps getting sass and discord instead. People look at the GW hype machine, and they see purple kool-aid.

I think this is probably spot on. GW maintained its Specialist games forum for years, long after they'd stopped producing new models for it, and it never descended into the kind of acrimony you saw on the main forums.

Though it probably helped that the Specialist games tended to attract more experienced gamers who were already knew what to expect from GW and were still playing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 23, 2015, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: Humorous_Conclusion on December 23, 2015, 08:43:09 PM
Though it probably helped that the Specialist games tended to attract more experienced gamers who were already knew what to expect from GW and were still playing.
Spot on there!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 24, 2015, 12:35:08 AM
Quote from: Humorous_Conclusion on December 23, 2015, 08:43:09 PM
Though it probably helped that the Specialist games tended to attract more experienced gamers who were already knew what to expect from GW and were still playing.

It probably also helped a bit that most of the Specialist Games didn't suck, welcomed player involvement, and generally kept their integrity over a period of more than 3 Months. SGers get rather tetchy when it comes to change though. Because, well, Underhive. **Spits**

Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 23, 2015, 10:48:34 AM
I think the attitudes you describe here are odd but interesting. I can never understand why people who like the 40K background and models don't just use them with better rules - Ganesha's Flying Lead or Mutants with Death Ray Guns, for example, or some of the interesting "modern" rule sets like Chain of Command or Crossfire (I'm sure there are many more good examples).

Because Gamers are useless douchebags. Seriously. I'm not just singling out GW fans either. Historical Groups can be awful for outright ridiculous bias towards rulesets. The amount of orthodoxy that exists within this hobby is quite scary sometimes. I've often struggled to encourage a group to even consider the adopting of House Rules, let alone changing the ruleset. Part of the problem with 40k is just how much of it there is, and how everybody likes at least a part of the rules that they sink their teeth into. It's surprising how successful a gimmick can be in gripping someone to something mostly, or entirely flawed. Like, say, Inquisitor.

Ultimately, it takes the right kind of group. But the right kind of group can make the wrong kind of ruleset actually bearable, so in essence, this whole situation becomes kind of impossible. Besides, for the past few years, GW have been exceptionally controlling with regards to gaming, creating orthodoxy, and generally just a shitty ubermench atmosphere (at its worst amongst WHFB players imo). These guys tried to make gamers such as these dependent on them for everything, including, it seems, how to read (RAW: promoting illiteracy across the internet since the mid noughties!). Unfortunately this backfired, because GW were then expected to do work, and also not suck at it. This in turn added to the already tetchy and unhappy atmosphere that was created when the Sales Department essentially became the design studio.

I'm sure there are games out there that could do 40k justice (I've done FUBAR 40k a couple of times) but trying to get gamers to change is like trying to get GW management to admit there's a problem with their company.

You did lose me a bit on Crossfire though. I really dislike that game. Maybe the utterly pointless and boring meat-grinder style of waiting around for decent dice rolls fits with the grim and unrelenting war of darkness and misery, but I don't see adopting that set as much of an improvement. Unless you utterly despise tape measures and are plotting to destroy them all with doomsday lasers...

Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 23, 2015, 10:48:34 AM
Another thing I don't quite get is the importance of "fluff" to a wargame, as opposed to an RPG. Surely the only point of it (other than a guide to painting) is to help generate scenarios or narrative campaigns. Yet don't most 40K players just play straight fights?

I disagree with your main point, but I want to cover the straight fights thing first. I still play 40k on occasion, and I feel a big part of why straight fights occur is not so much to do with Gamers, but more to do with how shoddily written the rulebook is and how shallow it is as rulebook material. For one thing, the scenarios in the game are, to use a word, shit. They are barely different, and the addition of so called Tactical Objectives (or, more accurately, Arbitrary Win Buttons For Powergaming Douche Bags) barely helps inject "narrative" into the gaming experience, and usually just makes it more likely that the army better suited to killing on the move (i.e. SPESS MUREENZ) will come out of it better.

Couple in all the other factors, rolling on a arbitrary random chart to determine what personality your general has this game (Warlord Traits), rolled on an arbitrary random chart to determine what deployment style you have (basically: horizontal? vertical? or how about diagonal? Oh Ambassador, with this astounding imagination you are really spoiling us), rolled on one of two arbitrary random charts to determine what "scenario" is played. Now do a similar thing for psychic powers, placed terrain, now you can think about deploying. Speaking from experience, by the time I have sorted all the Forged Army Fun Features I cannot be bothered to play a scenario game, or any other game type that will throw in even more faff. Couple in the fact that the MASSIVE variation between factions means that even a straight game is a tall ask for an awful lot of armies. Most players stick to kill points, partly through a lack of imagination, but also through a determination to actually stand a chance of winning, and in some cases, maybe getting a draw.

Couple in that the scenarios aren't much cop anyway, and there's little point in mixing things up.

As to narrative and story, GW offers absolutely no help developing any of this. There aren't suggestions, there aren't options, there aren't any devices, above and beyond a card deck of random objectives that are mostly "kill this" or "stand here" or "do something you'd do anyway". There's not much point in bothering when the writing is so uninspired. Age of Sigmar isn't much of an improvement in that direction either.

However, on fluff, I view it as pretty important. Unless you are playing a game that is designed to cover any variation of a general theme, I expect a specific narrative. I want something to buy into, to get the feel for how the setting is supposed to be. Other games are like that anyway. Otherwise, it's like saying there's no point in differentiating Necromunda from Legends of the Old West, or Napoleonics from the American Civil War. It's not simply a matter of colour schemes. There's likely going to be some level of personal investment in that setting, whether it's historical curiosity, or simply the desire for a bit of knowledge regarding why these guys are red and those guys are blue. And what the hell the grey guys are up to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2015, 08:42:11 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on December 23, 2015, 07:34:39 PM
A lot of savage orcs were used as 40k stand ins.

Yes! That's precisely what we did. The three types of primitives I remember were bow-armed savage orcs (hiding behind trees and sniping at their lasgun- and bolter-armed adversaries), slann with blowpipes (taking cover from swamps and other water features) and lizardmen (who had two wounds each in Warhammer and were thus able to soak up a lot of firepower as they advanced).

I think our main sources of inspiration were the Ewoks from Return of the Jedi and the Swampies in The Power of Kroll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Kroll). We were too young for the TV broadcasts, but I remember the novelisation being a favourite in the local library.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2015, 10:36:42 AM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 24, 2015, 12:35:08 AM
Because Gamers are useless douchebags. Seriously. I'm not just singling out GW fans either. Historical Groups can be awful for outright ridiculous bias towards rulesets. The amount of orthodoxy that exists within this hobby is quite scary sometimes. I've often struggled to encourage a group to even consider the adopting of House Rules, let alone changing the ruleset. Part of the problem with 40k is just how much of it there is, and how everybody likes at least a part of the rules that they sink their teeth into. It's surprising how successful a gimmick can be in gripping someone to something mostly, or entirely flawed. Like, say, Inquisitor.

Ultimately, it takes the right kind of group. But the right kind of group can make the wrong kind of ruleset actually bearable, so in essence, this whole situation becomes kind of impossible.

Good points. I confess I've only ever played wargames with friends (or with my kids), so the "group" phenomenon isn't really one I've encountered. I wonder if the family/friends vs club split actually forms a considerable divide in gaming. I mean, the blogosphere seems to be full of people playing wonderful narrative scenarios with Song of Blades and Heroes or whatever, but many of those seem to take place in domestic settings.

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 24, 2015, 12:35:08 AM
Besides, for the past few years, GW have been exceptionally controlling with regards to gaming, creating orthodoxy, and generally just a shitty ubermench atmosphere (at its worst amongst WHFB players imo). These guys tried to make gamers such as these dependent on them for everything, including, it seems, how to read (RAW: promoting illiteracy across the internet since the mid noughties!). Unfortunately this backfired, because GW were then expected to do work, and also not suck at it. This in turn added to the already tetchy and unhappy atmosphere that was created when the Sales Department essentially became the design studio.

GW have never been great at having their products proofread. The early Warhammer books (including 40K) are a fetid swamp of run-on sentences ...

I agree with your points on GW's controlling attitude. A couple of my son's friends were recently lured into the local GW shop. The reports of their indoctrination into Age of Sigmar were deeply depressing (I countered with links to the cheap miniatures thread in the fantasy forum and the Ganesha site, pointing out that kids are much more likely to be able to play a ten-a-side skirmish game with a rulebook that costs a fiver ...).

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 24, 2015, 12:35:08 AM
I'm sure there are games out there that could do 40k justice (I've done FUBAR 40k a couple of times) but trying to get gamers to change is like trying to get GW management to admit there's a problem with their company.

You did lose me a bit on Crossfire though. I really dislike that game. Maybe the utterly pointless and boring meat-grinder style of waiting around for decent dice rolls fits with the grim and unrelenting war of darkness and misery, but I don't see adopting that set as much of an improvement. Unless you utterly despise tape measures and are plotting to destroy them all with doomsday lasers...

Ah - I haven't actually played Crossfire, but have become interested in it recently because of its place in the DNA of Battlesworn, which I really like (it has the same measureless movement). So it may not have been a good example (Battlesworn with all troops as Shooters, on the other hand ...).

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 24, 2015, 12:35:08 AM
I disagree with your main point, but I want to cover the straight fights thing first. I still play 40k on occasion, and I feel a big part of why straight fights occur is not so much to do with Gamers, but more to do with how shoddily written the rulebook is and how shallow it is as rulebook material. For one thing, the scenarios in the game are, to use a word, shit. They are barely different, and the addition of so called Tactical Objectives (or, more accurately, Arbitrary Win Buttons For Powergaming Douche Bags) barely helps inject "narrative" into the gaming experience, and usually just makes it more likely that the army better suited to killing on the move (i.e. SPESS MUREENZ) will come out of it better.

Couple in all the other factors, rolling on a arbitrary random chart to determine what personality your general has this game (Warlord Traits), rolled on an arbitrary random chart to determine what deployment style you have (basically: horizontal? vertical? or how about diagonal? Oh Ambassador, with this astounding imagination you are really spoiling us), rolled on one of two arbitrary random charts to determine what "scenario" is played. Now do a similar thing for psychic powers, placed terrain, now you can think about deploying. Speaking from experience, by the time I have sorted all the Forged Army Fun Features I cannot be bothered to play a scenario game, or any other game type that will throw in even more faff. Couple in the fact that the MASSIVE variation between factions means that even a straight game is a tall ask for an awful lot of armies. Most players stick to kill points, partly through a lack of imagination, but also through a determination to actually stand a chance of winning, and in some cases, maybe getting a draw.

Couple in that the scenarios aren't much cop anyway, and there's little point in mixing things up.

That's all deeply depressing. I've just been looking at the early 40K scenario generator ("Abdul Goldberg stole your ship off you ..."), which is great (run-on sentences and all).

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 24, 2015, 12:35:08 AM
As to narrative and story, GW offers absolutely no help developing any of this. There aren't suggestions, there aren't options, there aren't any devices, above and beyond a card deck of random objectives that are mostly "kill this" or "stand here" or "do something you'd do anyway". There's not much point in bothering when the writing is so uninspired. Age of Sigmar isn't much of an improvement in that direction either.

I suppose what I don't get is why players don't just cook up something like this:

Haptar Clune has been making a killing smuggling ferocious xenoforms from the savage jungle planet of Xanth XIII to the feudal rim world of Kroll 12, where the creatures are used in the gladiatorial games that punctuate the Krollian calendar. But now the Imperium is on to him. Its forces have cornered him in a gloomy hangar of Xanth XIII's least salubrious spaceport, where unspeakable noises and smells issue from the electro-cages that await loading. With the Century Kestrel's flight sensors still being repaired by its servitor droids, Clune and his crew must hold off the Imperium's forces and protect as much of their cargo as they can.

All you do then is plonk down a number of "cages", let the smuggler player mark them secretly with what they contain, explain that laser fire nearby may scramble the locks (a roll of 6 for any shots targeted within three inches, or 5-6 if the lock is deliberately targeted), and let the Imperial player enter from as many or as few of the hangar's gates as he wants ...

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 24, 2015, 12:35:08 AM
However, on fluff, I view it as pretty important. Unless you are playing a game that is designed to cover any variation of a general theme, I expect a specific narrative. I want something to buy into, to get the feel for how the setting is supposed to be. Other games are like that anyway. Otherwise, it's like saying there's no point in differentiating Necromunda from Legends of the Old West, or Napoleonics from the American Civil War. It's not simply a matter of colour schemes. There's likely going to be some level of personal investment in that setting, whether it's historical curiosity, or simply the desire for a bit of knowledge regarding why these guys are red and those guys are blue. And what the hell the grey guys are up to.

I agree that a specific narrative is important. But isn't a scenario-specific narrative (like the one above) is all you really need for a good game? The guys in blue are whatever chapter of space marines keep order on Xanth XIII. The human/alien mix are the smugglers. And those things in the cages ...

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the first edition of 40K got this sort of thing right, so it's depressing how the game has become pretty much the opposite of what it originally was. The Imperium was a sandbox in which all manner of plots and scenarios could be quickly drawn up and played out. The subplot generator (one of the personalities is a malfunctioning experimental android ...) provides some great ideas to go with the broader ones.

And isn't the point about fantasy and sci-fi that you can do anything, and do it quickly? I mean, when my son and I play a game of Song of Blades, I usually get him to come up with the plot. And he generally comes up with something pretty good in an instant. "The goblins are trying to steal dinosaur eggs from the the lizardmen, so that they can raise the dinosaurs as mounts." And that gives us some clear objectives for both sides. With the unlimited worlds of a sci-fi game, this kind of stuff is so easy to establish. And then you can link one game with the next to establish a deeper narrative.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 24, 2015, 07:17:27 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2015, 10:36:42 AM
Good points. I confess I've only ever played wargames with friends (or with my kids), so the "group" phenomenon isn't really one I've encountered. I wonder if the family/friends vs club split actually forms a considerable divide in gaming. I mean, the blogosphere seems to be full of people playing wonderful narrative scenarios with Song of Blades and Heroes or whatever, but many of those seem to take place in domestic settings.

Generally speaking, yes. I can't comment much on this, only child, few cousins my age, and not a parent. But, a lot of my friends when I started up had brothers, who usually got them into it, or at least played with them. This seems to work better than groups in most cases (unless the Brothers really liked to fight, or in some cases, even though they did), and I'd say that this is probably to do with motivation and introduction. I imagine that most family groups share, more or less, the same influence and motivations that encourage them to keep on gaming. Their views will be similar, at least initially, and that introduction will set the tone for their experience.

If you're among friends who are of similar ages, or are contemporaries and you start together, I imagine the situation can be somewhat similar, although this is where cracks emerge, at least amongst younger gamers. The older I get, the less of a toss I tend to give amongst more mature gamers. I game with a few 30-40somethings on Monday nights and those are easily the most relaxing games I play, even if I'm facing filth. My main group where I have issues though, has had a few incarnations, and the problems seem to arise from a very varied mix of gaming generations. Usually the rifts come from my only direct contemporary, but that similarity can be a problem. But the thing that has caused problems within the group is that the various mixes have always contained a massive variety of play-styles, priorities and preferences (3Ps. Totally unintended). This does lead to difficulty picking games.

Also, as individuals we are all different, even my friend who is the same age as me. We've all had vastly different backgrounds, and have very different current situations, making striking a balance very difficult. The group is still trying to find its feet (and I think eventually it'll probably fail) and this can be a problem. Amongst well established groups, this can be totally less of an issue. I would love to have a dedicated skirmish gaming group in my area, preferably from 30+ and above, so some of the powergamer friendly skirmishes might get pushed out (seriously, had my fill of Warmahordes years ago).

One thing with the GW gaming group though, is just how better it is managed. When I say, a good group makes things bearable, my local GW has a very good staffer manager, which is frankly an anomaly. Hell, he lets me write rules for campaigns (plus, it's nice to help out), and encourages the parts of the hobby that GW haven't promoted enough of late. It's hard to faff on with games I barely know when things are made so easy there, even amongst a group of vastly different age ranges, although depressingly, most younger than how long I've been gaming (20something years), let alone lived.

Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2015, 10:36:42 AM
Ah - I haven't actually played Crossfire, but have become interested in it recently because of its place in the DNA of Battlesworn, which I really like (it has the same measureless movement). So it may not have been a good example (Battlesworn with all troops as Shooters, on the other hand ...).

I feel a little self-conscious that I might be being a bit hard on Crossfire. I do have pretty high standards when it comes to rules (yeah, know, a predominantly GW gamer with high rules standards! What's next, a WHFB player that uses a dozen sentences without the two words "more tactical" appearing in them?). It's not so much experience of rulesets, it's more a sort of petty and pathetic arrogance. I write the odd ruleset, and much like since I started writing novels, I have a capacity to ruin Wargames and Novels by seeing the mechanics a little too much and from completely left field. I don't know if it's just me. I'm probably a borderline case of OCD as well, so I don't suppose that helps.

My beef with Crossfire is that it jumps between intuitive, fluid abstracts (which I am very pro) to anal retentive, nigglingly specific conditions. The two parameters don't often sit well, and I find the game immensely frustrating. To be honest, I seem to have the biggest beefs with games that hinge on handfuls of dice rolls, or the requirement to roll really well to do anything (Hordes of the Things and GW's Lord of the Rings/Hobbit tends to boil my piss for the same reasons). I find that Crossfire seems to discourage tactical manoeuvring, and indeed, risk taking. Whilst I do see why, I don't find it makes for a satisfying game, and if one removes the WW1/2 or Modern Warfare aesthetic of "quick and easy warfare simulator", it can be gamed as more or less a meat grinder for conservative gamers. I guess that's why I go more for Skirmish. I'm sure there are people on here willing to defend it. I'm just still a bit pissed that my group wouldn't accept my house rule suggestions.

I don't doubt it's influential. I like the no measuring mechanic. It's a nice abstract, and I rather like abstracts. I just wish the ruleset ran with more abstracts. It also seems to highlight my massive issues with Historical Gaming and Orthodoxy. "Just keep playing it, I'm sure it'll get better". Whilst I'm sure it's possible that occasionally, gamers fail their rulesets, the kind of ruleset that lets gamers fail to play as intended probably aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Which also leads me to my other beef. Has anyone tried reading these rules? I know GW deserves to catch a lot of flack, but one thing they do well is presentation of ideas, especially order. They faff around with it for no reason, but aside of that, at least it's possible to find rules. The most current edition is quite a low for GW in this regard, but 40k isn't as bad for this as Crossfire, Force on Force, Tomorrow's War, Confrontation, Dark Heresy, and other such games that have pretty crap layout, or just are appallingly poorly worded (or both: looking at you Conf and FoF).

Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2015, 10:36:42 AM
I suppose what I don't get is why players don't just cook up something like this:

Haptar Clune has been making a killing smuggling ferocious xenoforms from the savage jungle planet of Xanth XIII to the feudal rim world of Kroll 12, where the creatures are used in the gladiatorial games that punctuate the Krollian calendar. But now the Imperium is on to him. Its forces have cornered him in a gloomy hangar of Xanth XIII's least salubrious spaceport, where unspeakable noises and smells issue from the electro-cages that await loading. With the Century Kestrel's flight sensors still being repaired by its servitor droids, Clune and his crew must hold off the Imperium's forces and protect as much of their cargo as they can.

All you do then is plonk down a number of "cages", let the smuggler player mark them secretly with what they contain, explain that laser fire nearby may scramble the locks (a roll of 6 for any shots targeted within three inches, or 5-6 if the lock is deliberately targeted), and let the Imperial player enter from as many or as few of the hangar's gates as he wants...

I suppose my main point here is, this kind of attitude has to be taught. It's not something gamers will naturally incline to. Gamers tend to be pretty unimaginative, including with stuff like RPGs. Imagine how rich we'd be if we each got our currency's primary coin for each RPG or Wargame plot that revolved around something taken directly and noticeably from a film, and probably a recent film at that. I played a lot of cyberpunk in my teens around the time of the Matrix. Nuff said.

Often I don't think gamers realise they can do this. Often though, gamers look for big ideas, thus requiring the kind of collector's range that allows adaptability, which is another problem with GW. The game changes so rapidly that I know very few gamers from the more recent generations that have a big dedicated army of one faction. I have a lot of Imperial Guard for 40k, but as I like themes, one is Genestealer Cult, the other is Ecclesiarchy. Doesn't mix well (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Understatement).

Besides, the faff I mentioned. It's very rare that one thinks about doing such things. My local staffer does include stuff like this from time to time (and also mini-games at Store Parties), but it isn't widespread. GW doesn't help, and I don't feel that they want to. If the narrative idea meant so much to them, other than a throwaway sales-friendly gimmick (much like 5th Edition's "immersive" True Line of Sight), then the player wouldn't always be basically thrown a thing to do, as a soul judge, mostly because they can't be bothered to be held to a particular mechanic, or think one up, or reintroduce one. I mean a set of options, or at least ways to modify the scenario to give it character? Weather effects? MacGuffins? Plot Twists? Heck, even just a few deployment options that mixed things up a bit?

Sadly, those options don't always get used. To those who remember playing Halo, and particularly Halo 3 online, remember the blanket preference for Slayer Mode, over, like, anything else? Because Gamers, being often unwilling to fully engage, will just concentrate on killing the enemy. I admit it's quite affected my gaming, and I often struggle to avoid the single-mindedness of it. I'm not even particularly good at it, except in Necromunda, it seems...

Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2015, 10:36:42 AM
I agree that a specific narrative is important. But isn't a scenario-specific narrative (like the one above) is all you really need for a good game? The guys in blue are whatever chapter of space marines keep order on Xanth XIII. The human/alien mix are the smugglers. And those things in the cages ...

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the first edition of 40K got this sort of thing right, so it's depressing how the game has become pretty much the opposite of what it originally was. The Imperium was a sandbox in which all manner of plots and scenarios could be quickly drawn up and played out. The subplot generator (one of the personalities is a malfunctioning experimental android ...) provides some great ideas to go with the broader ones.

I'm rather mixed on both points. I do think we're going back to the days where GW starts to include more and more random tables to mix things up. If I felt the motivations were truly about improving narrative, and not simply making it harder to tell how badly unbalanced and royally fucked the core mechanics are, I might feel more charitable towards them. But in general, I worry that there's just too much emphasis on arbitrary random generators. Sure, they will sort things out quicker than deliberating, but they're also removing a lot of soul from the game.

Part of why 40k fails to tell narrative is that I feel prevented often from seeing the battle from the perspective of my army's general. Perhaps it sounds pathetic, but as a moderately sizeable part of what makes that character is represented by the warlord trait, which is (apart from special characters) randomly determined, it's hard to view the general as a character that you can identify with, and tends to remove the point of making your own hero, because, unless the character is a schizophrenic, it just wouldn't make sense.

Whilst much of 40k these days is more about the wider picture, it is still a sandbox, it's just not got any sand in it. You just dip your hand into the box and pull out randomly a bunch of pre-determined sandstone rocks and bash them together. Even armies are getting like that since formations came into it. I'm used to seeing the same sorts of armies emerge. Not fun.

Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2015, 10:36:42 AM
And isn't the point about fantasy and sci-fi that you can do anything, and do it quickly? I mean, when my son and I play a game of Song of Blades, I usually get him to come up with the plot. And he generally comes up with something pretty good in an instant. "The goblins are trying to steal dinosaur eggs from the the lizardmen, so that they can raise the dinosaurs as mounts." And that gives us some clear objectives for both sides. With the unlimited worlds of a sci-fi game, this kind of stuff is so easy to establish. And then you can link one game with the next to establish a deeper narrative.

This is true. I just wish there was a ruleset that seemed to deliver this that was reasonably mainstream and at 28mm scale, because I've found very few above FUBAR that do that. And again, it's still more or less the players having to do all of the work. Often with some games that leads to even more work.

TL:DR: I over-analyse everything. Kill me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 24, 2015, 08:39:34 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on December 24, 2015, 12:35:08 AM
IIt's surprising how successful a gimmick can be in gripping someone to something mostly, or entirely flawed. Like, say, Inquisitor.

Now I'm curious. Is there a community of Inquisitor players? I've always viewed Inquisitor as one of the very least successful SGs (even accounting for the fact that one could just ignore the 54mm gimmick and do it in 28mm instead), but you've hinted at an Inquisitor community more than once and I know you have more experience with the SG fanbase than I do, so it's piqued my interest.


Anyway, moving on, I must apologise in advance for the christmas "uncheer" of the rest of this post.

Quote from: baldlea on December 23, 2015, 01:18:29 PM
This is exactly what we have started to do using the Clash on the Fringe rules. The writer openly says they are a "love letter" to Rogue Trader. They work well as a modern interpretation RT.

Oh yeah, Clash on the Fringe does deserve a mention. It isn't one of those high production value rulebooks that I like to wax lyrical about, and some of the intentional genericity of it isn't quite to my preferences, but still, the sense of "modernised Rogue Trader" is very palpable in it. The rules design and the snippets of fiction convey that same sense of wild, crazy adventure that RT does.

One of the things I lament about GW today is that they no longer care for nurturing the adventure-loving side of 40K players (and probably AoS players as well). The GW core settings, as portrayed by its writers, are all about burning rage, charred battlefields and sheer grim bloody-minded overkill now. There's barely a piece of fluff nowadays that doesn't end with something to the effect of "The last thing Private Xavier saw was his own viscera ripped out of his abdominal cavity by a dozen monstrous claws" or "As the blood became a mist enveloping the layer of corpses which the battlefield had become, Grixzhorr threw his gore-spattered head back and howled in savage ecstacy". Who are they trying to sell this stuff to? (Don't answer that - I know who.)


Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2015, 10:36:42 AM
I agree that a specific narrative is important. But isn't a scenario-specific narrative (like the one above) is all you really need for a good game? The guys in blue are whatever chapter of space marines keep order on Xanth XIII. The human/alien mix are the smugglers. And those things in the cages ...

I'm striking off on a tangent here (because I'm veering away from the discussion on tables and random plot hook generation), but that's a good point you make. While it is true that many of my favourite fictional wargame settings are very richly detailed (the Heavy Gear universe comes to mind), and the value of real history as a game setting is self-evident, there is a different kind of positive value in the mere suggestion of a setting surrounding the immediate stage, dramatis personae, "props", plot hooks and conditions of a scenario. Why are the blue guys wearing crested inca-style helmets? What are those cool alien dog-like creatures the red guys are using? What's with the landscape of weird plants that look like dragon blood trees? What is the significance of the blues having higher morale but the reds being numerically superior? I don't know, but my imagination is running wild over what all of it might suggest about the world the scenario is taking place in.

Of course, this is how richly detailed gameworlds often get started. The blue player might, for instance, declare his guys to be "janissaries of the Castorian Empire", and the red player might declare his guys as "Rheviri mercenaries in the employ of Hiakander Goldmane". The scenario, they decide together, is a famous encounter during "Gup the Seventh's campaign of reconquest in the Blackmoon Peninsula". What/who, then, are the Castorian Empire (and janissaries thereof), Rheviri mercenaries, Hiakander Goldmane, Gup the Seventh and the Blackmoon Peninsula? To answer those questions will entail more world-building. At some point along the line it will become a very conscious, systematic artifice, but it will have begun in a much more spontaneous, organic way.

It does help if the ruleset and what you see on the table (miniatures and terrain) convey a certain atmosphere, whatever atmosphere that might be (techno-gothic, cyberpunk, swords and sorcery, mossy fairytale folklore, steampunk fantasy, etc). But I like to think the mentality of many gamers is such, that even if they were to game with the most generic figures on the most generic terrain, they will naturally begin thinking of a story and a world to go with the game. Why are two factions of identical-looking generic sci-fi jarheads fighting over a grassy green field with a few trees and hills? Well, it's a civil war between the Caudillos and the Fifth-Congress Declarationists on Amaterasu Prime, and this particular encounter is taking place in the temperate sheep-grazing lands of New Sumatra Province, of course.

To bring my ramblings back on track, I often get the feeling that GW does not want to encourage or even acknowledge this part of the hobby anymore because it's "bad for business" to foster imagination and creativity in customers when they could just be spoon-fed dogma instead. It's like a church wherein only the GW priesthood is sanctioned to practice world-building and the writing of fiction. Except that priesthood is in fact a joint-stock company, which means it is almost literally programmed to always try to make the largest profit possible in the most ruthlessly, logically effective way possible. Which, in turn, has resulted in a tendency for purple prose so one-track, so devoid of subtlety, so formulaic, so vacant-brainedly muscular, that it makes "'Twas a dark and stormy night..." read like Jane Austen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on December 24, 2015, 09:30:49 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 24, 2015, 08:39:34 PM
Now I'm curious. Is there a community of Inquisitor players? I've always viewed Inquisitor as one of the very least successful SGs (even accounting for the fact that one could just ignore the 54mm gimmick and do it in 28mm instead), but you've hinted at an Inquisitor community more than once and I know you have more experience with the SG fanbase than I do, so it's piqued my interest.

I don't know if there still is. There was a forum, the Conclave. I also know a large part of the online SG community tended to get involved in various based-on-SG spin-offs, usually designed at improving one or two games. A common one became more a trope than a ruleset (there were many versions floating around) called Inquisimunda, which took the principle of "narrative skirmish" (yeah right, my arse) and applied it to 28mm models, usually with the help of the refined Rogue Trader skirmish system: i.e. Necromunda.

I was never really a part of it, so I can't tell you more. My interaction with the Conclave comes from being published by SG, and they weren't very nice about me. To be fair, I asked for it. I was 18, and I let ego overshadow content. I should add, I wouldn't feel any different about Inquisitor even if the main fanbase for it called me worse than shit, it just helped a bit. One said he hoped my name would go down in the annuls of wargaming infamy. That is, funnily enough, the only context in which I have ever thought about Mat Ward positively.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 24, 2015, 09:53:08 PM
Ah, thanks. Inquisimunda I've heard of :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 24, 2015, 11:23:11 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 24, 2015, 08:39:34 PM
One of the things I lament about GW today is that they no longer care for nurturing the adventure-loving side of 40K players (and probably AoS players as well). The GW core settings, as portrayed by its writers, are all about burning rage, charred battlefields and sheer grim bloody-minded overkill now. There's barely a piece of fluff nowadays that doesn't end with something to the effect of "The last thing Private Xavier saw was his own viscera ripped out of his abdominal cavity by a dozen monstrous claws" or "As the blood became a mist enveloping the layer of corpses which the battlefield had become, Grixzhorr threw his gore-spattered head back and howled in savage ecstacy". Who are they trying to sell this stuff to? (Don't answer that - I know who.)

I'm striking off on a tangent here (because I'm veering away from the discussion on tables and random plot hook generation), but that's a good point you make. While it is true that many of my favourite fictional wargame settings are very richly detailed (the Heavy Gear universe comes to mind), and the value of real history as a game setting is self-evident, there is a different kind of positive value in the mere suggestion of a setting surrounding the immediate stage, dramatis personae, "props", plot hooks and conditions of a scenario. Why are the blue guys wearing crested inca-style helmets? What are those cool alien dog-like creatures the red guys are using? What's with the landscape of weird plants that look like dragon blood trees? What is the significance of the blues having higher morale but the reds being numerically superior? I don't know, but my imagination is running wild over what all of it might suggest about the world the scenario is taking place in.

Of course, this is how richly detailed gameworlds often get started. The blue player might, for instance, declare his guys to be "janissaries of the Castorian Empire", and the red player might declare his guys as "Rheviri mercenaries in the employ of Hiakander Goldmane". The scenario, they decide together, is a famous encounter during "Gup the Seventh's campaign of reconquest in the Blackmoon Peninsula". What/who, then, are the Castorian Empire (and janissaries thereof), Rheviri mercenaries, Hiakander Goldmane, Gup the Seventh and the Blackmoon Peninsula? To answer those questions will entail more world-building. At some point along the line it will become a very conscious, systematic artifice, but it will have begun in a much more spontaneous, organic way.

It does help if the ruleset and what you see on the table (miniatures and terrain) convey a certain atmosphere, whatever atmosphere that might be (techno-gothic, cyberpunk, swords and sorcery, mossy fairytale folklore, steampunk fantasy, etc). But I like to think the mentality of many gamers is such, that even if they were to game with the most generic figures on the most generic terrain, they will naturally begin thinking of a story and a world to go with the game. Why are two factions of identical-looking generic sci-fi jarheads fighting over a grassy green field with a few trees and hills? Well, it's a civil war between the Caudillos and the Fifth-Congress Declarationists on Amaterasu Prime, and this particular encounter is taking place in the temperate sheep-grazing lands of New Sumatra Province, of course.

Yes, yes and thrice yes! Very well put!  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 28, 2015, 08:59:32 PM
Seems a bunch of the old witch hunter minis have just been put back on the webstore....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 28, 2015, 09:14:12 PM
do you mean Mordehim Witch hunters?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 28, 2015, 09:19:09 PM
Quote from: beefcake on December 28, 2015, 09:14:12 PM
do you mean Mordehim Witch hunters?

40k.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 30, 2015, 09:58:14 AM
I just unsubscribed their mail newsletter.

Nothing of any interest to me for the last couple of years, anyway (at least nothing within price-range of my willingness to pay).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 30, 2015, 10:43:25 AM
The day before yesterday I acquired Relic, the 40K talisman spin-off, for a very decent price. I have played two games now I can say its only marginally less RnG then tallisman but its thematic enough that it has me thinking about 40K pulp alley already. Heck I suddenly feel the need to acquire some eldar, never had that before.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 30, 2015, 11:00:39 AM
Quote from: YPU on December 30, 2015, 10:43:25 AM
Heck I suddenly feel the need to acquire some eldar, never had that before.

I was hit by the urge to acquire some Eldar (just enough for skirmish gaming) a few years back and still have it. I thought about converting them from non-GW figures for a while, then about trawling Ebay for OOP ones, but as it's looking now I'll probably just get some of the current ones from GW, if I get any Eldar at all.

The thing about Eldar is that, for "elves in space", they have a very special style about them which is one of the main draws of 40K. It puzzles me that (to my recollection) no other manufacturer has tried to properly move in on that in 28mm. There's quite a lot of "imitation Eldar" in 6mm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 30, 2015, 04:17:41 PM
I've been kicking around the idea of picking up some more 30K/40K figures (ebay etc.) and trying to run a game with different rules, simply because a lot of my gamer buddies I believe have some old 40K figures laying around.  Couple them up with a bunch of other random sci-fi figures I have, might be worth something.  I'd pick up some Eldar but I doubt they're cheap even on ebay and everything is fine-cast now, so that's a no-go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 30, 2015, 04:26:23 PM
I keep looking on their site and  wanting to do a skitari /futuristic knight army ,but wife kids and cars swallow my spare cash. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on December 30, 2015, 04:29:01 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 30, 2015, 11:00:39 AM
The thing about Eldar is that, for "elves in space", they have a very special style about them which is one of the main draws of 40K. It puzzles me that (to my recollection) no other manufacturer has tried to properly move in on that in 28mm. There's quite a lot of "imitation Eldar" in 6mm.

Is there? I've only found the Defeat in Detail ones and Onslaught Miniature's Dark Eldar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on December 30, 2015, 04:41:44 PM
Only slightly off topic ish...

Yesterday I got time to play some of the new warhammer quest card game from FFG. Mechanics wise it feels like a mix of LotR lcg and imperial assault. The point being though all of us had fuzzy memories of the warhammer old world and loved the effort put in to capture the flavour and themes we remember.

It's amazing the difference some effort in writing, even if only a line or two, can make to a game. I think GW have lost this over time in trying to be edgy where it wasn't needed. Grim dark is fine but grim darkyness for the sake of it feels shallow. The little paragraph boxes in the rules and army books captured so much flavour as well as humour. Tastes and target markets obviously changed. I'm no longer that target market; probably for the best, and my wallet!

Thankfully though, we still have the likes of FFG who have the licence and ability to put out some nice flavoured games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 30, 2015, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: nullBolt on December 30, 2015, 04:29:01 PM
Is there? I've only found the Defeat in Detail ones and Onslaught Miniature's Dark Eldar.

Come to think of it, the Eldar grav-tanks someone was doing on Shapeways might have been 3mm, not 6mm. Other than that, there were a few offerings from Dark Realm and exodite types from Steel Crown. We might not have the same standards for what qualifies as "imitation Eldar" - I think of it as more of a general aesthetic than as copies of official GW material.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on December 30, 2015, 05:01:17 PM
Quote from: Mr Brown on December 30, 2015, 04:41:44 PM
Only slightly off topic ish...

Yesterday I got time to play some of the new warhammer quest card game from FFG. Mechanics wise it feels like a mix of LotR lcg and imperial assault. The point being though all of us had fuzzy memories of the warhammer old world and loved the effort put in to capture the flavour and themes we remember.

It's amazing the difference some effort in writing, even if only a line or two, can make to a game. I think GW have lost this over time in trying to be edgy where it wasn't needed. Grim dark is fine but grim darkyness for the sake of it feels shallow. The little paragraph boxes in the rules and army books captured so much flavour as well as humour. Tastes and target markets obviously changed. I'm no longer that target market; probably for the best, and my wallet!

Thankfully though, we still have the likes of FFG who have the licence and ability to put out some nice flavoured games.

This thread inspired me to have another look at the WFRP books a couple of weeks back, and I felt much the same way you describe. There's so much flavour in there, and a fair few bits of humour which complement the atmosphere of dark Germanic fantasy surprisingly well. I don't play RPGs, but I do often read RPG sourcebooks as background material for miniature wargaming settings, and now I'm rather itching to do a small Empire-centric skirmish/adventure project. I even have an idea for converting my own forest goblins.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on December 30, 2015, 05:56:36 PM
I've always thought that WHFRP 2nd Edition would make for a great skirmish tabletop game anyway, with a few figures a side.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Simlasa on December 30, 2015, 07:05:08 PM
Quote from: Gibby on December 30, 2015, 05:56:36 PM
I've always thought that WHFRP 2nd Edition would make for a great skirmish tabletop game anyway, with a few figures a side.
Yeah, most RPGs are small skirmish games + extras... some are more precisely directed at miniature use than others (Cadwallon, 4e D&D, Savage Worlds...) but WFRP 1or2 should work fine I'd think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: richstrach on December 31, 2015, 08:28:25 AM
Quote from: Rhoderic on December 30, 2015, 05:01:17 PM
This thread inspired me to have another look at the WFRP books a couple of weeks back, and I felt much the same way you describe. There's so much flavour in there, and a fair few bits of humour which complement the atmosphere of dark Germanic fantasy surprisingly well.

It was WFRP that got me into the whole hobby many years ago: I can't stress enough how obsessed I was with that book/setting, which lead naturally to WFB and then 40K (plus all the superb boxed games GW put out back then). My copy of the 1st edition is long gone, but I think I'll scour ebay for nostalgic reasons if nothing else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on December 31, 2015, 03:46:52 PM
Quote from: richstrach on December 31, 2015, 08:28:25 AM
... My copy of the 1st edition is long gone, but I think I'll scour ebay for nostalgic reasons if nothing else.

I picked up a hardback copy last month pretty cheaply, and it's every bit as good as I remembered... do it now! :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 31, 2015, 09:30:06 PM
I picked them all up last year and we should be playing a campaign in the new year.
Looking forward to it.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 02, 2016, 01:11:18 PM
Quote from: Gibby on December 30, 2015, 05:56:36 PM
I've always thought that WHFRP 2nd Edition would make for a great skirmish tabletop game anyway, with a few figures a side.

We WILL get that plan going this year!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 02, 2016, 01:16:51 PM
The new "Start Collecting!"  bundles up for pre-order today are looking suspiciously sane... new year, new plan?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 02, 2016, 03:57:02 PM
I've been perusing their site and listening to some podcasts and I agree.  Their battle forces were always pretty reasonable (particularly when purchased at an online retailer with a bit of a discount).

They do look pretty good for the most part.  In fact some of their 40K plastic kits are quite reasonable, then others are idiotic.  Example...new Eldar jetbikes, three bikes for $32...or one Farseer on foot for $20?

The Tau starter box is particularly good value given the cost of broadsides.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 04, 2016, 06:01:22 PM
Fyreslayer army inbound:

New Stunties (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?63240-Stunties!!!!!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Za Zjurman on January 04, 2016, 06:11:59 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on January 04, 2016, 06:01:22 PM
Fyreslayer army inbound:

New Stunties (http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?63240-Stunties!!!!!)

those are rather nice actually...

Cheers,
Za
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on January 04, 2016, 06:17:43 PM
They look like they just escaped from some form of fetish bunker or the Blue oyster bar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 04, 2016, 06:47:32 PM
Why the helmets? They make them terrible. Dragon things in the back are cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 04, 2016, 06:58:45 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on January 04, 2016, 06:17:43 PM
They look like they just escaped from some form of fetish bunker or the Blue oyster bar.
Maybe we just discovered where Slaanesh is hiding? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 04, 2016, 07:15:04 PM
I think the dwarfs look pretty cool, I would probably prefer them to the sigmarines.  Will wait for better pics though.

Also, just saw this - a couple preview sculpts for the first 'new' specialist re-release - BloodBowl

http://www.beastsofwar.com/blood-bowl/previews-blood-bowl-returning-tabletop/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on January 04, 2016, 07:28:53 PM
I've been wanting dwarves with "cannon on a stick" style handguns for years. But I want them looking like this...

(http://units.wesnoth.org/1.10/pics/core$images$portraits$dwarves$transparent$thunderer.png)

...so it's something of a cruel irony to me that when dwarves with the correct armament do show up, they're of the AoS aesthetic :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 04, 2016, 07:55:06 PM
I love Dwarfs.  If I played fantasy (ever) it would have been Dwarfs.  However, slayers have always been a bit "meh" to me, and the over-done AoS styled new ones look pretty terrible.  I'm sure they're marvelous figures/plastics etc...but they look absolute crap. :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on January 04, 2016, 08:22:22 PM
Quote from: Modhail on January 04, 2016, 06:58:45 PM
Maybe we just discovered where Slaanesh is hiding? ;)
lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on January 04, 2016, 08:32:08 PM
Hrmmmmmm they're not bad.

I'll wait until more comes out on them, but I was equally skeptical of the Sigmarines until I saw them in the flesh/alternate painting schemes.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Humorous_Conclusion on January 04, 2016, 09:55:09 PM
I like them because I think I could use one as the basis of a decent Ungrim Ironfist conversion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 04, 2016, 09:59:41 PM
That bloodbowl preview looks quite cool. I'll be waiting for necromunda and mordheim before I get excited though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 04, 2016, 10:02:27 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 04, 2016, 07:55:06 PM
I love Dwarfs.  If I played fantasy (ever) it would have been Dwarfs.  However, slayers have always been a bit "meh" to me, and the over-done AoS styled new ones look pretty terrible.  I'm sure they're marvelous figures/plastics etc...but they look absolute crap. :-X

Really dislike the Slayer aesthetic/trope (can it be considered a trope at this point?)  I also dislike the comically disproportionate bodies that Warhammer dwarves seem to have; I would pay good money for 28mm dwarves that look more like short, slightly (SLIGHTLY I SAID) stockier humans, rather than the bowling balls with cabbage patch kids' limbs attached.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on January 04, 2016, 11:04:37 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 04, 2016, 07:55:06 PM
However, slayers have always been a bit "meh" to me, and the over-done AoS styled new ones look pretty terrible.

Quote from: Hupp n at em on January 04, 2016, 10:02:27 PM
Really dislike the Slayer aesthetic/trope (can it be considered a trope at this point?)

I think Slayers were quite decent at first (admittedly before my time) when they reflected the pseudo-punk stylings of early GW.

(http://i1.wp.com/diceofdoom.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/WFRP-01.jpg)

By the time I got into Warhammer, they were much more cartoonish, and Gotrek and Felix were already an established phenomenon. I've read some of the Gotrek and Felix novels, and I can honestly say that Gotrek is the most daft, naff, one-dimensional gimmick protagonist I've ever encountered in fantasy literature.

As for the Fyreslayers, I dunno... I suppose I might think of them as one of those "I don't personally like them, but I appreciate the fact that they exist" kind of things. But they also make me wonder how many more rounds of iterative stylistic ante-upping GW can go through. How much more extreme can a Slayer become by this point? Is there something even more OTT in store for when AoS 2nd Edition rolls around?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 04, 2016, 11:25:04 PM
I picked up the Gotrek and Felix books for free...couldn't get past one of them, much for the reasons you listed.  Never took a shine to them.  I don't "hate" slayers from older game generations but the new ones look comically daft.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 05, 2016, 04:25:38 AM
You're right, the context matters: it's still not my cup of tea necessarily, but the chainmail wearing slayer looks very natural on that cover. Helps that his mohawk is a reasonable height.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 05, 2016, 05:44:38 AM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on January 04, 2016, 10:02:27 PM
Really dislike the Slayer aesthetic/trope (can it be considered a trope at this point?)  I also dislike the comically disproportionate bodies that Warhammer dwarves seem to have; I would pay good money for 28mm dwarves that look more like short, slightly (SLIGHTLY I SAID) stockier humans, rather than the bowling balls with cabbage patch kids' limbs attached.  lol

Hear hear!

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/eaodak/OWS%20Crimson%20Lotus%20aka%20Teflon%20Billy%2001_zpsmexq2dll.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/eaodak/media/OWS%20Crimson%20Lotus%20aka%20Teflon%20Billy%2001_zpsmexq2dll.jpg.html)

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/eaodak/OWS%20Crimson%20Lotus%20aka%20Teflon%20Billy%2002_zpswa3rhfsl.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/eaodak/media/OWS%20Crimson%20Lotus%20aka%20Teflon%20Billy%2002_zpswa3rhfsl.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 05, 2016, 05:47:10 AM
The new stuff, in total, just looks awful.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 05, 2016, 06:17:23 AM
My favourite dwarfs are the old asgard ones.
http://www.thevikingforge.net/25mm-fantasy-dwarves.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 05, 2016, 07:00:44 AM
Is it me or are they in a 300/troy style ?
Either way think they look pants tbh

Those Asgard ones look nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pijlie on January 05, 2016, 07:10:39 AM
Awful figures. That punk/fetish image really doesn't work without the humor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 05, 2016, 09:05:46 AM
Looks like some people still object to the change, and are willing to take a stand for what they believe - link (http://newsthump.com/2016/01/04/warhammer-players-seize-branch-of-games-workshop/)  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on January 05, 2016, 09:08:02 AM
Those Asgard figures look like dwarf babies - huge heads on small bodies. The GW figures are nicer to my eye, though they are no better than the Avatars of War plastics for me.

Irony number 1. GW moved to round bases to allow greater freedom and dynamism in the models. Check out the poses of the guys with shields.  :o

Irony number 2. GW have "lost" Slaanesh in a concession to their 12 year old demograph, then release chain obsessed half-naked marauders followed by leather underpanted/naked dwarfs waving around some of the biggest phallic symbols this side of Sparta.

Irony number 3. The new accessible game has models priced at... ah what's the point?

The tiniest plus thing I could find was the nice detail on the helmets. Never been a fan of slayers so difficult to make unbiased comments, but hey, who else does that?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 05, 2016, 09:37:51 AM
Quote from: beefcake on January 05, 2016, 06:17:23 AM
My favourite dwarfs are the old asgard ones.
http://www.thevikingforge.net/25mm-fantasy-dwarves.html

Mine too.
I have managed to acquire a set (far too long ago...) and really should get some paint on them.
They are still the best to my old eyes.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 05, 2016, 01:12:45 PM
Really not keen of those new Dwarves, their nakkedness scares me hehe ;)

On a plus side for once GW/FW have just taken some of my money for the first time in many many years in the form of 30k/HH.

GW standard prices are now so expensive that FW prices seem a tad more reasonable and I've caved in dew to the releasing of BaC I've now bought some of their 30k/HH kits.

Oh and the new Blood Bowl in the future GW might get a couple quid on me..

Oh I feel Ill... what did I just do and admit too ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 05, 2016, 01:48:29 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on January 02, 2016, 01:16:51 PM
The new "Start Collecting!"  bundles up for pre-order today are looking suspiciously sane... new year, new plan?

Looking at the new prices, the answer is "Not in the slightest"  :D

Don't mind the look of the dwarfs, but I though I was seeing the prices in Roubles  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 05, 2016, 02:04:40 PM
Looking more and more like stiff action figures. Out of Masters of the Universe or something. They're not good, they're not bad, they're boring.

Quote from: Nord on January 05, 2016, 09:08:02 AM
Irony number 2. GW have "lost" Slaanesh in a concession to their 12 year old demograph

Irony number 4. No they didn't.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 05, 2016, 02:31:54 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on January 05, 2016, 01:48:29 PM
Don't mind the look of the dwarfs, but £60 for ten Slayers and £40 for five Hearthguard?

Wowsers, and I thought that £35 for ten Witch Elves was arse-clenching!  :o

Also the "starter armies" are not brilliant value unless you feel that the regular pricing is sensible.

For example the Space Marine set retails at £53 pounds without the Captain (and £73 with). So, you're only really getting a free character (or the equivalent) plus £2-3 in loose change by way of savings in the battle forces starter armies now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 05, 2016, 03:51:57 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on January 05, 2016, 02:31:54 PM
Wowsers, and I thought that £35 for ten Witch Elves was arse-clenching!  :o

Also the "starter armies" are not brilliant value unless you feel that the regular pricing is sensible.

For example the Space Marine set retails at £53 pounds without the Captain (and £73 with). So, you're only really getting a free character (or the equivalent) plus £2-3 in loose change by way of savings in the battle forces starter armies now.

Sorry Major, I removed the prices from my post - I believe they should be in US dollars.  Mind, £40 for ten dwarfs and £25 for five other dwarfs is still somewhere within the definition of awful.

The price for the command figures does skew the value of the starter sets, not to mention the recent price hikes for, say, the Tau, and I don't think a bloke on a plastic dinosaur was ever worth £50, but I can see where they're coming from for the 40k ones.  Add another squad of troops for £20-£25 and a support blister and you're kind of in Bolt Action 1000-point army territory.  A ruleset that's optimised for that size of force would be a good next step for GW  ;)

On the other hand, plenty of them bring the models to reasonable prices.  If you think of the AdMech box as a £25 vehicle, a £15 squad and a £10 commander, it feels, well, closer to the competition.  Find some spare torsos and legs in the bits box, and you'll get second unit out of the troops sprues.

It's still a very welcome move from a company not known for such things.

Clearly the fantasy armies are struggling to compare with Mantic's £50 armies, although they do offer more variation - cavalry and monstahs(!).  And they're not, er, Mantic figures.

Element Games has them on pre-order for £39.99 and at Dark Sphere it's £37.50.  I'd say they're all good buys at that price, although you will need to buy a couple of boxes (and another small item) to qualify for free shipping.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 05, 2016, 10:31:54 PM
The GW prices lack one thing: consistency.

Imperial guard old-school metal squads (10 figures): $30 (same as their price about 12-15 years ago).  Completely fine by me.

Retail discounted Jetbike box (three models): $32, completely reasonable.

Single Character plastics: $20...not reasonable.

Start collecting Tau set: $85 (discounted probably around $70), completely reasonable. The three crisis suit set itself is $75 retail.

Varanguard (3 cavalry figures): $100...get stuffed.  Even at discount that's absurdity.

Blood Warriors (10 figures): $62...get stuffed.  Again, ridiculous.

Dire Avengers (5 plastic figs): $29 ---- at retail discount, get stuffed.  Nonsense.
___________________

My point is that while I've been perusing the GW site a lot lately to see what they're really on about, at discount from retailers, some kits are completely okay.  But most are just laughably silly.  I'd even consider getting into 40K (indirectly, using other rules) again with Eldar if they didn't have an entirely nonsense resin army. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 05, 2016, 10:56:28 PM
I'm getting the start collecting skiitari box, I've wanted that dune crawler since it came out, and since i can get the box for £40 at tabletop tyrant ,I can use the infantry and leader for 40k-Grave. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 06, 2016, 09:43:28 AM
Well, unless you want lots of the plastic hero models or whatever, I can't see much point in buying more than one (maybe two) of these sets - they are quite literally starter forces, and comparing the SM bundle to the Calth box just serves to highlight this further (i.e., for twice the price, you get three times the stuff and it's a better and more useful ratio of models).

Yet again, a missed opportunity for: high sales volumes, repeat sales, accessible entry to the games, good PR.

Okay, so some of the sets are better value than others - that's not unexpected (and indeed the Ad Mech starter has already sold out). But a lot that I looked at just seemed... Same-old, same-old. I really feel that GW understand people's attitude to their pricing, and want to convince you that you're getting some sort of bargain in every way that they can, except by actually giving you a real discount.

Also, none of these sets (at least the 40k ones) contain enough to let you play a game with them - they are just too limited.

I am frankly surprised that GW still hasn't moved to doing a battleforce with a specific set of sprues in the starter-box style. This would make them cheaper, a better entryway to the game, and not compete with the "full" kits available separately.

As an example, the Dark Vengeance contents for the Dark Angels would make an ideal starter army all on its own, and given the price of the full DV set could easy be priced at around £35. Such sprues could even include an exclusive hero or two (like DV does), and perhaps a pamphlet with a narrative scenario that uses your starter force (and is designed to fight another starter force). Starter armies like these would fly off the shelves!

And comparing that example of what could be done against these following bundles currently offered by GW:


Yeah.

So, against the silly bundles, the starter forces look great. But looking at what they can/could do instead, they just look like more head-in-the-sand "offers" that totally miss any sense of reality. But then, I guess the emphasis is now on "collecting models" rather than "buying models to play a game with". :?

Anyway, sorry for another pricing rant!  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 06, 2016, 03:28:04 PM
I agree, namely because if anything the BoC box is 100% proof that they can provide a heap of figures/models for a reasonable price.  And unlike the starter boxes of old, the BoC figures are not snap-together short-cut models...they're 100% proper plastic sprues/kits.  I'd have an awful hard time looking at a box of five terminators in the store for what $55-60...and then seeing BoC with all of that stuff for twice the price. (well $125 at discount).  It simply does not make any logical sense and that's what pisses me off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on January 07, 2016, 01:35:42 AM
Quote from: Rhoderic on January 04, 2016, 11:04:37 PM
As for the Fyreslayers, I dunno... I suppose I might think of them as one of those "I don't personally like them, but I appreciate the fact that they exist" kind of things. But they also make me wonder how many more rounds of iterative stylistic ante-upping GW can go through. How much more extreme can a Slayer become by this point? Is there something even more OTT in store for when AoS 2nd Edition rolls around?

Indeed. To paraphrase Yahtzee Croshaw somewhat, how better can something get than the concession of: a) having tits, and b) being on fire?

Re: the consistency of GW pricing and value of kits, just bear in mind that GW are obviously at least partly aware that when their stupid business practices fail (and they usually do) they need to save themselves with the odd limited box that has value you'd be stupid to pass up. Given that this year was going to be really bad for GW before the Calth box set came out, I have no difficulty seeing the motive.

The fact that keeping fans satisfied with quality and value is seen by GW as an unsustainable effort is remarkably odd. But I guess they'd rather stick to this fantastic plan of theirs than admit they're wrong. Ultimately, GW's decision makers are sales people. Like most sales people, they have no idea what sells. But they do know how to keep the higher ups from sacking them for another year.

Now you understand the point of Calth. Likewise, these starting army deals could have been useful around Xmas time, but my suspicion is, sales are falling away AGAIN and they needed to do something to make them rise. They're trying everything to make their business look solid before the financial year ends, other than not sucking at what their product is for.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 07, 2016, 02:11:03 AM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on January 07, 2016, 01:35:42 AM
Indeed. To paraphrase Yahtzee Croshaw somewhat, how better can something get than the concession of: a) having tits, and b) being on fire?
Fyreslayers, they've got the fire, and from those pics I'm sure I caught a glimpse of sideboob.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on January 08, 2016, 01:29:48 PM
Speaking of sales

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/08/games-workshop-fails-weave-christmas-magic


JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 08, 2016, 03:10:12 PM
Wait ... they re-branded their stores 'Warhammer' because that's what its customers call it?

1. Eh? I've never heard it called that. It's the Games Workshop or GW shop.

2. Why spend so much money on a rebrand for such a ridiculous reason? Does Marks and Spencer plan to call its shops Marks and Sparks now? Will McDonalds call itself Maccy D's? If you accept that customers have a nickname for your shop (I don't accept that Warhammer is it, but there we go) you don't rebrand to fall in line. That's ... moronic.

3. Why rebrand to a name you have just nuked out of existence?

Is anyone actually steering this ship or is it basically just a shoelace tied to a steering wheel with a post-it note saying 'Out to lunch' ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 08, 2016, 03:50:40 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 08, 2016, 03:10:12 PM
Wait ... they re-branded their stores 'Warhammer' because that's what its customers call it?

1. Eh? I've never heard it called that. It's the Games Workshop or GW shop.


Heh my old mum used to call it the ''Warhammer shop'' 20 odd years ago, does that count :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 08, 2016, 03:53:45 PM
Quote from: Chico on January 08, 2016, 03:50:40 PM
Heh my old mum used to call it the ''Warhammer shop'' 20 odd years ago, does that count :D

It might.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 08, 2016, 03:56:36 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 08, 2016, 03:10:12 PM
Wait ... they re-branded their stores 'Warhammer' because that's what its customers call it?
That's ... moronic.

3. Why rebrand to a name you have just nuked out of existence?

Is anyone actually steering this ship or is it basically just a shoelace tied to a steering wheel with a post-it note saying 'Out to lunch' ?

This pretty much sums up the state of GW and Warhammer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 08, 2016, 04:03:39 PM
I always love this absolutely useless garbage language...corporate speak is such a ball of shite.

“We have made some good progress on our strategic initiatives all focused on delivering long-term growth.”

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 08, 2016, 04:22:24 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 08, 2016, 03:10:12 PM
2. Why spend so much money on a rebrand for such a ridiculous reason? Does Marks and Spencer plan to call its shops Marks and Sparks now? Will McDonalds call itself Maccy D's?

Or Kentucky Fried Chicken to KF... oh wait.  :D

More newspaper bits:

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/games-workshop-in-profit-warning-after-poor-christmas-a3151876.html

I like the way they mention that Warhammer World sells 'elf cakes', and the price of them. It's a wonderful mix of interest and complete irrelevance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 08, 2016, 04:27:13 PM
Is that an official GW photo in the Standard?

I just wonder why the painter took a lot of time and effort over the clothing and then totally ignored the eyes ???

It's interesting that both articles have been illustrated with LOTR images, a game they've pretty much abandoned
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on January 08, 2016, 04:29:18 PM
I think serious financial journalists, steeely eyed veterans of a double dip recession, struggle when writing a piece on the warhammer company that sells warhammer in warhammer shops.

Even when they're patently not Warhammer, not warhammer shops and not selling.  hey ho.

JDE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on January 08, 2016, 04:31:01 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 08, 2016, 03:10:12 PM
3. Why rebrand to a name you have just nuked out of existence?

To avoid false advertising. According to themselves, they don't make games. Also, the word Warhammer doesn't have "work" in it, removing other commitments they don't give a shit about.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 08, 2016, 04:31:55 PM
Quote from: Streetline on January 08, 2016, 04:29:18 PM
I think serious financial journalists, steeely eyed veterans of a double dip recession, struggle when writing a piece on the warhammer company that sells warhammer in warhammer shops.

Even when they're patently not Warhammer, not warhammer shops and not selling.  hey ho.

JDE

If there was ever a time when this forum really needed a 'like' button...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on January 08, 2016, 04:50:20 PM
Well profits may have been 'flat' over Christmas (i.e. they didn't make more than they did last year) but since they made £6M last year, that's still not too shabby. And £16M profit for the year as a whole last financial year. Certainly doesn't look like they're going down the tubes any time soon, does it? Despite the commentary wall of doom and despair here and elsewhere, GW is evidently still successfully selling an awful lot of baroque toy goblins and elves to somebody...  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 08, 2016, 05:31:43 PM
Quote
Certainly doesn't look like they're going down the tubes any time soon, does it? Despite the commentary wall of doom and despair here and elsewhere

I don't think anyone has said they're going to fail right now. Not since a good while back, anyway!
I have to admit, Kevin Rountree's noises and stuff like discounted boxes are making me wonder if GW is suddenly becoming sober again - a bit like Jack in that episode of Father Ted. I'm sceptical that all that 6M, holding at 6M, is down to 'baroque goblins and elves' though. GW had another few tricks that it pulled out of it's hat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on January 08, 2016, 06:53:17 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 08, 2016, 05:31:43 PM
I have to admit, Kevin Rountree's noises and stuff like discounted boxes are making me wonder if GW is suddenly becoming sober again - a bit like Jack in that episode of Father Ted.

...And now I'm picturing a GW staff meeting where upper management's end is just "Feck!", "Arse!", "Drink!", "Gerls!", "Gobshyte!".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 08, 2016, 07:13:57 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 08, 2016, 04:03:39 PM
I always love this absolutely useless garbage language...corporate speak is such a ball of shite.

“We have made some good progress on our strategic initiatives all focused on delivering long-term growth.”

 lol

Sounds like a dilbert comic strip,lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on January 08, 2016, 07:16:50 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 08, 2016, 05:31:43 PM
I'm sceptical that all that 6M, holding at 6M, is down to 'baroque goblins and elves' though. GW had another few tricks that it pulled out of it's hat.

I was oversimplifying their product offer, I appreciate. I believe they do some spacey stuff too.
;)
Apart from a few paints, I am not and have never been a GW shopper.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 08, 2016, 07:45:29 PM
That's a brilliant bit from the Guardian.

" It has appointed a recruitment expert to ensure a constant supply of store managers."

That's one way to "freeze" staff wages.


Oh and linky if I may direct to source

http://investor.games-workshop.com/2016/01/08/half-yearly-report-and-trading-update/

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 08, 2016, 08:36:15 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 08, 2016, 04:03:39 PM
I always love this absolutely useless garbage language...corporate speak is such a ball of shite.

“We have made some good progress on our strategic initiatives all focused on delivering long-term growth.”

 lol


Quote from: Cubs on January 08, 2016, 03:10:12 PM
3. Why rebrand to a name you have just nuked out of existence?

Is anyone actually steering this ship or is it basically just a shoelace tied to a steering wheel with a post-it note saying 'Out to lunch' ?

Quote from: Dim_Reaper on January 08, 2016, 04:31:01 PM
To avoid false advertising. According to themselves, they don't make games. Also, the word Warhammer doesn't have "work" in it, removing other commitments they don't give a shit about.

... lol , that is all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on January 08, 2016, 09:34:51 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 08, 2016, 07:45:29 PM
That's a brilliant bit from the Guardian.

" It has appointed a recruitment expert to ensure a constant supply of store managers."

That's one way to "freeze" staff wages.


Oh and linky if I may direct to source

http://investor.games-workshop.com/2016/01/08/half-yearly-report-and-trading-update/



Is there a sufficiently high turnover with those jobs?  Or is this corporate speak for "we're switching our staff over to temporary/contract positions"?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 08, 2016, 10:28:25 PM
Quote from: Vermis on January 08, 2016, 05:31:43 PM
I don't think anyone has said they're going to fail right now.

No, but they have been failing very soon since 1990 or so.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 08, 2016, 10:32:25 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on January 08, 2016, 07:16:50 PM
I was oversimplifying their product offer, I appreciate. I believe they do some spacey stuff too.
;)
Apart from a few paints, I am not and have never been a GW shopper.

I've oversimplified, myself. There's still the matter of how much Battle of Calth, WFB panic buying, and interest in the AoS starter sets (especially from 40K players looking for, er... baroque space marines) might have skewed the appearance of interest in AoS in general. The exact breakdowns probably won't ever be known to us rubberneckers, though the next couple of reports might give a clue.
Maybe it is all down to AoS, and I'll hold my hands up if it helps GW rocket back up, past the 6M mark.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 08, 2016, 11:08:38 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on January 08, 2016, 10:28:25 PM
No, but they have been failing very soon since 1990 or so.

I've been hearing ~5 years for a couple of years. Is that soon or long-term? In any case, I don't know if slumping sales, static/dropping revenue, and apparently no clue how to fix it (the word 'otiose' is like a mantra, now) since the LotR bubble burst, is really a sign that all the Cassandras were wrong. :) They were still massively profitable, but even that few million in profit wasn't going to survive almost-inevitable bites taken out of it, every year. WFB didn't survive it, anyway. How much profit did that still contribute, when it was axed? Who knows, but I'll bet it was also a number that most wargaming businesses only dream of.

Anyhow. On the face if it, it looks like Captain Rountree's swooped in to save the day. At the mo I don't see GW returning to the altruistic, hobbyist-obsessed company that it never really was in the first place, but maybe it'll stop chasing away so much of it's fanbase.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 08, 2016, 11:19:00 PM
Quote from: rebelyell2006 on January 08, 2016, 09:34:51 PM
Is there a sufficiently high turnover with those jobs?  Or is this corporate speak for "we're switching our staff over to temporary/contract positions"?

As I understand, they turn over 30% or so of their store staff each year.  That's pretty significant.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on January 08, 2016, 11:33:37 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on January 08, 2016, 11:19:00 PM
As I understand, they turn over 30% or so of their store staff each year.  That's pretty significant.


That's Walmart levels of turnover.  That has to be intentional, in order to avoid paying COL increases or bonuses or other benefits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on January 09, 2016, 12:29:24 AM
Quote from: Captain Blood on January 08, 2016, 04:50:20 PM
Well profits may have been 'flat' over Christmas (i.e. they didn't make more than they did last year) but since they made £6M last year, that's still not too shabby. And £16M profit for the year as a whole last financial year. Certainly doesn't look like they're going down the tubes any time soon, does it? Despite the commentary wall of doom and despair here and elsewhere, GW is evidently still successfully selling an awful lot of baroque toy goblins and elves to somebody...  :)

I can't speak as someone who understands how businesses work, but I can speak as a long suffering customer. I'm somewhat reticent, it's like people who say "speaking as a parent...", don't you want to stab them as a maniac? (Yes, I stole that from Ed Byrne) Whilst it doesn't over-qualify me above anyone else here, I might be able to add a bit more perspective on why the doomsayers constantly toll the bells.

I'll start backwards (as some later points mention this). Why is it always a dirge of GW going down, and yet never happens? Well, it's because both sides misunderstand the effects and abilities each side has. The fans being dissatisfied and indeed being very vocal about it has hit GW hard on the internet. As GW haven't bothered to engage (and in fact in many ways are either being worse out of spite or are unwilling to engage on any points of criticism irrespective of validity) with the fanbase and others on the net, this has been left to their staunch defenders. Many of them have given up, largely because they're starting to realise they don't actually have an argument, and in many, many cases, the critics are right.

Likewise, GW, whilst making a load of errors that anyone in the wargaming industry* would be stupid to make, they're not exactly a depraved butcher making meat chops from their own limbs. There is within GW a capacity to somewhat override how badly they suck at certain aspects. Some say this sort of thing is inevitable for a big company, well shit, if I felt that GW at least showed a sign of fucking trying to address even a fraction of this issue, I'd have sympathy.

(*Note "wargaming industry". I personally no longer consider them part of it)

Obviously, White Knights will be seizing on the recent announcement of Specialist Games, and recent (shock horror!) sales as a sign of GW embracing some kind of reasonableness. But I just don't see it. What I see is desperation. GW don't bother to give their fans what they want unless they absolutely need to, and even then, they'll likely flat ignore them (as Age of Sigmar shows).

It's this attitude that gets the doomsayers wailing. Because I for one am not surprised that a company that at least gets the aesthetics right (as if that is difficult in this digital age) is at least able to make a sizeable profit, especially when it produces good quality plastic casts that the competition is not yet able to match. But if you take that away, what have you got? You have two games with a source of rich lore/fluff/background that fans appreciate, but in both cases, the writers who created these rich settings have nothing to do with Games Workshop: in the first case (40K) Priestley, Ansell, Chambers, Pirinin, Cavatore, Thorpe et al have all left (there's just Jervis, who is not the best of the bunch by a long chalk); in the other, we have Tolkein. Nuff said. The current "writers" are just not up to it. The new names of units, the new fluff of Age of Sigmar, they highlight massively the inferior stock of writers GW have left.

We take the rules, and well, they function, that's about it. To some, they don't even do that. I know a lot of people say Age of Sigmar doesn't even work at all (they are mostly WHFB players though, a demographic, it can safely be said, I was never a fan of...). Certainly in terms of what GW's games represent? They all represent the same thing. Masses of noticeable inequalities that are shifted as often as possible. Because sales. The games have received a lot of criticism over the years, and that's always been constant. But the level of validity of those arguments has never been greater. Nor have the arguments been shorter. For example:

Step 1: Critic makes observation.
Step 2: White Knight makes personal insult/difficult to counter (yet still erroneous) stock argument
Step 3: Critic either refutes or flame war ensues.
Step 4: [Optional] Step 2 repeats, until flame war ensues.

That's Warseer and BOLS out of the way at least...

So the point I'm ambling towards is, GW's doom is not imminent, but without serious and lasting change in the way they operate, it is inevitable. It has to be viewed not from the Sales tricks they are able to employ to keep afloat, nor the ludicrous low standards of many of their customers (although obviously that does help) but of the long term damage that they have been doing to their product since the start of the Ward era that slowly (very slowly) starts making their prices even difficult to justify to like, say, Space Marine players. And that is how the company will end.

It wont take months. It'll take years, but it will happen if their writing and attitude doesn't improve. Because those things are damaging the value of their product. Increasingly. For my money, that's what explains the drop in sales. People are sick of their bullshit. Every year there is more and more. Only now it's getting so low that people have actually noticed. Because this isn't the only drop in sales that the company has reported. In the past decade it hasn't happened, what, twice? the rest of the time there were drops in sales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 09, 2016, 12:56:03 AM
I think the most interesting bit to me...

Games Workshop would do 100% fine if they did the following:

1) Allowed normal retailers to sell via internet/no limits.
2) Had a facebook page/social media presence.
3) Dropped the price of their most ridiculous stuff by 15-20% (prior to online discount by retailers).
4) Close as many of their non-profitable stores as they have to.
5) Cull the product line by 10-20% of the stuff that is irrelevant and no one purchases. (Rule #1: don't insult your customers with ridiculous prices for toy soldiers)

Basically, operate as a normal damn company.  Yes, their rules are a bit crap.  Yes a lot of people (myself included) dislike a lot of their design choices, but the people have spoken.  40K is hugely popular.  Warhammer AoS...could be?  I doubt it will with the 200% cost of figures compared to similar 40K models.  But there are loads of people/kids/adults who love Warhammer and will buy damn near anything.

But going out of your way to remove retailers/alternate sources for your kits/models etc.  Crushing fan projects, suing everyone who makes anything similar etc.  It's as if GW is trying to lose market.  Trim the fat, and sell stuff like a normal damn company.  Hell sales would probably increase to the point of outrunning supply.  Maybe not in Warhammer Fantasy as regimental games like that are simply a tough sell.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 09, 2016, 01:08:45 AM
I'm curious how much of their revenue is due to licensing deals and not sales at all.  They've licensed a LOT of stuff recently.  Video games, FFG's rerelease of Talisman and the 40k reskin, etc. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 09, 2016, 01:09:49 AM
Quote from: Elbows on January 09, 2016, 12:56:03 AM
I think the most interesting bit to me...

Games Workshop would do 100% fine if they did the following:

1) Allowed normal retailers to sell via internet/no limits.
2) Had a facebook page/social media presence.
3) Dropped the price of their most ridiculous stuff by 15-20% (prior to online discount by retailers).
4) Close as many of their non-profitable stores as they have to.
5) Cull the product line by 10-20% of the stuff that is irrelevant and no one purchases. (Rule #1: don't insult your customers with ridiculous prices for toy soldiers)

Basically, operate as a normal damn company.  Yes, their rules are a bit crap.  Yes a lot of people (myself included) dislike a lot of their design choices, but the people have spoken.  40K is hugely popular.  Warhammer AoS...could be?  I doubt it will with the 200% cost of figures compared to similar 40K models.  But there are loads of people/kids/adults who love Warhammer and will buy damn near anything.

But going out of your way to remove retailers/alternate sources for your kits/models etc.  Crushing fan projects, suing everyone who makes anything similar etc.  It's as if GW is trying to lose market.  Trim the fat, and sell stuff like a normal damn company.  Hell sales would probably increase to the point of outrunning supply.  Maybe not in Warhammer Fantasy as regimental games like that are simply a tough sell.



It seems as if the people at GW still think they're the only show in town....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on January 09, 2016, 01:48:39 AM
Quote from: Elbows on January 09, 2016, 12:56:03 AM
Basically, operate as a normal damn company.  Yes, their rules are a bit crap.  Yes a lot of people (myself included) dislike a lot of their design choices, but the people have spoken.  40K is hugely popular.  Warhammer AoS...could be?  I doubt it will with the 200% cost of figures compared to similar 40K models.  But there are loads of people/kids/adults who love Warhammer and will buy damn near anything.

Time will tell if you're right, but I'd say it's very clear that 40k is popular almost exclusively because of what it was, rather than what it is. What it is, is a mess. Somewhere between the powergaming bullshit heralded from the start of the Wardian era, and the sort of enforced casualness and super compulsory fun time that has been heralded from the massive amount of criticism they received because of the former.

They're out of touch, and it shows. They try excessively to sell the ideas of the games, without actually giving those ideas anything resembling credibility, depth, or even a point. This is mostly because those ideas are lucky to last a few months before being entirely overruled or outmoded, but also because most of them already start off fundamentally flawed. They will literally go against any principle, if it helps sales. The compulsory fun/narrative element isn't even developed or presented well. It's sort of a gimmick and a cop out rolled into one.

The trouble is, GW's writing has lost any semblance of not being blatant sales fodder, and that's all it is. Because the remaining "talent" don't have the talent to hide that, or even give the gamers much of a reward for buying into the sales nonsense. Aside of the hobby aspect, which promotes itself, there's very little they do that encourages new gamers, yet they don't attract anywhere near enough and don't give anywhere near a remote toss about the ones they have. The fact is, they're relying on a company built by better men. Those better men aren't there. I can't see the situation improving as a result, and they aren't going to get better men to fix it (who would lower themselves?).

It's rather telling that Calth gets released to a big fanfare, and is the only thing that's saved GW from a massive humiliation, trading it for a minor one instead. I also don't believe people bought Calth in order to start 40k. They bought it because it was a bargain.

I seriously doubt that GW are going to make a habit of it. All the while they've essentially drawn a line over the games, and without the games, what's the point?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 09, 2016, 03:42:05 PM
Quote from: Dim_Reaper on January 09, 2016, 01:48:39 AM
It's rather telling that Calth gets released to a big fanfare, and is the only thing that's saved GW from a massive humiliation, trading it for a minor one instead.

The set was only available for 2 weeks during the reported financial period.

Given the current economic climate, holding your own is probably not so bad.

I really don't wish any mini manufacturing company ill will, whether I like their product or not. For example, Alien Dungeon who produce All Quiet on the Martian Front, apparently have gone under or are restructuring. That could cost me a a bunch of money, but I refuse to talk ill of them. The hobby is just too small for that and the disappearance of a major manufacturer could see our niche disappear into oblivion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 09, 2016, 05:21:52 PM
At £50 some of those boxes are good value, some are poor.  

At Dark Sphere's £37.50 (and remember they didn't have to put them out to retail)... well even the Marine one is a £20 Dreadnought, a £5 captain and a pile of bitz.  Just going on eBay or to Anvil Industry for 10 pairs of Space Marine legs to expand an assault box and devastator box will cost you a tenner (both those boxes have parts for 10 marines... but only five pairs of legs).

At those prices, I start to think "What could I do with...".  Those Nurgle plague drones are a good bet for conversion to Blight Drones with some aftermarket resin, and I can find something to do with the rest of the box, even if it's just to sell or trade.  Everyone needs Manky Flying Robots in the future...

GW has some deep-seated structural problems that need addressing (and have been done to death on this thread), but selling these sets, getting some more money out of older models, is a smart move.  Credit where it's due.  Bet they wish they kept the moulds for all their 80s stuff...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dim_Reaper on January 09, 2016, 05:24:06 PM
The financial climate is not really an excuse. Things have been getting steadily better (at least here in the UK) for quite some time. Whilst GW's prices omit those people on the lowest rung, most gamers I've met over the years have been the sorts of people who had sufficient amount of disposable income (or their parents did) that they're only marginally affected. Besides, is every other hobby/luxury company reporting massive drops in sales? Well, no. So there are other factors. Besides, they failed to meet their own targets. I'm sure their sales team was aware of the financial situation when making those estimates, so that really can't be the reason.

As to Calth being available for 2 weeks, I think it's fair to say that's where the majority of sales of that product will come from. Sure, there'll be a steady stream since, but only after the rush has petered off.

I just don't believe GW are doing about as well as they could. Their reputation in the industry is, and has been for many years, in tatters. They've had a stream of public relations disasters and they've done nothing to address any of them other than by being more obnoxious. I don't need to wish ill will on the company, they seem to go out of their way to generate it on their own.

I want the company to improve. I'm just past the point of believing it's possible. GW falling could really damage the industry, but I feel the effect will be negligible, at least for a short while. Getting rid of the sue-happy bunch of incompetent gits could even be a boon for the industry, showing many gamers for the first time what well-written wargames are like.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on January 09, 2016, 06:37:37 PM
As I've stated before, I don't count myself among those who predict GW's demise. While GW don't understand or care about the hobby anymore, they do understand and care a great deal about business. Making money is in their programming. It's the only thing in their programming, and that programming is the entirety of their essence.

I, conversely, am a hobbyist and have little interest in GW's money-making imperative. I don't really exist in that dimension. Perfectly natural, yes?. My gripe with GW is that, in their own minds, they don't really exist in the hobby dimension anymore. Their sales department is GW nowadays. Their creative department might as well be the people mopping the floors and emptying the dustbins so the sales people can sit in their offices and do their jobs with minimum interference. When they interact with "the hobby", they do it cynically, like how Mattel interacts with children or H&M interacts with teenagers. They are simply farming their fanbase for money, nothing more.

So, I in turn treat GW cynically. I have no qualms about "scavenging" off of them for the sake of my own hobby endeavours by buying some of their products if they're useful to me (as I well might with the Specialist Games re-launches), but that won't stop me having a low opinion of them as a company.


Quote from: Dim_Reaper on January 09, 2016, 12:29:24 AM
it's like people who say "speaking as a parent...", don't you want to stab them as a maniac? (Yes, I stole that from Ed Byrne)

Love Ed Byrne! :D


Quote from: Dim_Reaper on January 09, 2016, 01:48:39 AM
I'd say it's very clear that 40k is popular almost exclusively because of what it was, rather than what it is.

[...]

The fact is, they're relying on a company built by better men. Those better men aren't there.

Yes! Well spoken.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nullBolt on January 10, 2016, 10:22:31 AM
One of the issues is that every time GW takes a hit, the ENTIRETY of the wargaming market takes a hit. GW is pretty much the biggest wargaming company (even if they claim they are not) in the world and this means it's the only wargaming company known to a lot of investment bankers.

So, if you're a fledgling wargame maker and you approach a bank for a loan to start a company up, they take a look at GW, see it's sales are suffering and say the market is financially unviable (it probably is but not because GW are bad at business).

So then they go on Kickstarter and we've see how the overwhelming majority of Kickstarters end up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on January 10, 2016, 09:26:53 PM
Interesting mention here of GW, its novels and litigiousness (about 44 minutes in):

http://jonathanstrahan.podbean.com/e/episode-263-elizabeth-bear-and-scott-lynch/ (http://jonathanstrahan.podbean.com/e/episode-263-elizabeth-bear-and-scott-lynch/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 19, 2016, 12:51:32 PM
Well. It seems to be impossible to unsubscribe from the Warhammer Digital mailing list.

I keep getting mails from there, and when I follow the link to the unsubscribe form and give in my email address, it just tells me that my email address is not subscribed... Marvellous!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on January 21, 2016, 12:54:15 PM
By the way :
http://jobs.games-workshop.com/2016/01/20/middle-earth-model-designer-nottingham-uk/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on January 21, 2016, 01:16:28 PM
Quote from: Barbarian on January 21, 2016, 12:54:15 PM
By the way :
http://jobs.games-workshop.com/2016/01/20/middle-earth-model-designer-nottingham-uk/

So, GW is not getting out of the Tolkien business after all?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 21, 2016, 02:26:36 PM
Well damn, that's a job i'd give my left nut for if i could actually sculpt.   lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on January 21, 2016, 02:27:40 PM
But what?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 21, 2016, 02:49:33 PM
Quote from: nic-e on January 21, 2016, 02:26:36 PM
Well damn, that's a job i'd give my left nut for if i could actually sculpt.   lol

But WHY?

Not a chance in the world.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 21, 2016, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: nic-e on January 21, 2016, 02:26:36 PM
Well damn, that's a job i'd give my left nut for if i could actually sculpt.   lol

Um - to be honest, I might give both of yours or just the remaining one..

Not parting with mine.

But still, reckon I would still regret it, and they probably are getting the better side of the deal there regardless.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 21, 2016, 08:52:17 PM
Quote
Working at Games Workshop

At Games Workshop we are looking for people who will do their best to understand the needs of the company and to put those needs first when they are at work. Because of this we believe that what you are like, hence the attitude you show to work and the way you choose to behave is even more important than your skills or experience.

 o_o  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 21, 2016, 09:02:13 PM
That's...unique.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Za Zjurman on January 21, 2016, 09:03:20 PM
 lol lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on January 21, 2016, 09:46:10 PM
Quote from: nic-e on January 21, 2016, 02:26:36 PM
Well damn, that's a job i'd give my left nut for if i could actually sculpt.   lol

If you give your soul to the company, you don't even need to know how to sculpt.
Oh, and they are looking for a rules writer too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 21, 2016, 09:51:50 PM
Quote from: Barbarian on January 21, 2016, 09:46:10 PM
If you give your soul to the company, you don't even need to know how to sculpt.
Oh, and they are looking for a rules writer too.

Brave new world!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 21, 2016, 10:21:08 PM
Lets all apply, regardless of relevant skill sets, levels or competence - low in my case in most areas but hey - its corporate followship that's wanted! o_o

Then when we are all on the inside.... muhahahahahahahahahha.... ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on January 21, 2016, 10:30:30 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 21, 2016, 10:21:08 PM
Then when we are all on the inside.... muhahahahahahahahahha.... ;D

Actually, I think "muhahahahahahahahahha" may be the official motto of GW these days. It may even be their mission statement :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 22, 2016, 05:04:12 AM
Quote from: Rhoderic on January 21, 2016, 10:30:30 PM
Actually, I think "muhahahahahahahahahha" may be the official motto of GW these days. It may even be their mission statement :P

Now that's the spirit! Tow that company line!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 22, 2016, 08:57:50 AM
Quote from: Rhoderic on January 21, 2016, 10:30:30 PM
Actually, I think "muhahahahahahahahahha" may be the official motto of GW these days. It may even be their mission statement :P

I am awaiting the arrival of the "Cease and Desist" litigation documentation, for infringing on their IP...  :(


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Leftblank on January 27, 2016, 11:38:27 AM
I wrote a blog with updates about GW's financials.
Business consultant Richard Beddard is worried about GW's latest financial results and Priestley thinks he was more or less singlehandedly responsible for the success of Games Workshop. Full blog here: http://amsterdam6shooters.nl/node/595 (http://amsterdam6shooters.nl/node/595)

Future is bleak for GW. Slow demise expected.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on January 27, 2016, 01:19:24 PM
"Financial analist" ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 27, 2016, 02:19:15 PM
Quote from: Derek H on January 27, 2016, 01:19:24 PM
"Financial analist" ?

He's the butt of all the company jokes!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Leftblank on January 27, 2016, 02:37:11 PM
You mean that I made a spellyng mystake? Sorri. Corrected :-)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 27, 2016, 02:42:57 PM
nah it was fine the way it was.

Noted last night when I was browsing the interwebs that Steam had a GW games "sale".

Then I looked at the games listed, the amount of discount etc, and kinda could not be bothered.

Especially as some have not even been released yet.

Which is good as I promised meself not to buy new computer games this year at all - so almost got through the first month already.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 27, 2016, 04:09:21 PM
There are a couple of good GW video games out there, but most are a bit pants.

And half of the ones on Steam are mobile/cellphone games.  The original Blood Bowl is still excellent (heard disparaging things about the sequel) and the original Space Hulk is good (the second is broken and the producer went out of business, so no fix in sight).  I'll be honest...Mordheim is a huge mess and I'm very disappointed in it.  WHQ is a cellphone game and has very mixed reviews.  I can't be bothered with the Space Marine games in general.

Vermintide looks neat..ish..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on January 27, 2016, 04:27:26 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 27, 2016, 04:09:21 PM
Vermintide looks neat..ish..

Don't do that unless you've got a friend or several to play with.
The bots in there are still less capable than whatever tools you've in your garden shed, and the community is... vile, to put it nicely, and mostly focuses on grinding one particular map only.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 27, 2016, 04:29:49 PM
Bah too bad.  The only other one to interest me is Battlefleet Gothic - not out till March.  Heard an interview with the developer and it sounded neat...we'll see.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 27, 2016, 06:02:00 PM
I bought Kill team last night. It was a couple of bucks and I had a bunch of credit from selling off my steam trading cards so it was almost "free".
I am looking forward to total war though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 28, 2016, 03:54:01 AM
Here is something different:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/01/bombshell-gw-moving-into-toymodel-stores.html

GW is repackaging some of their 40k kits to sell in toy stores.  The kits come in coloured plastic (the base colour of the model), with the more simple miniatures like their starter set figures.  Also supposed to include brushes and paint.  For a price point comparable to other model toy kits.  I think it is a good idea, and could work well to hook the young'uns on GW stuff before they see the price tag of the actual miniatures line  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on January 28, 2016, 04:01:45 AM
Quote from: Timbor on January 28, 2016, 03:54:01 AM
Here is something different:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/01/bombshell-gw-moving-into-toymodel-stores.html

GW is repackaging some of their 40k kits to sell in toy stores.  The kits come in coloured plastic (the base colour of the model), with the more simple miniatures like their starter set figures.  Also supposed to include brushes and paint.  For a price point comparable to other model toy kits.  I think it is a good idea, and could work well to hook the young'uns on GW stuff before they see the price tag of the actual miniatures line  lol

Are we talking Toys R Us toy stores?  Or are they pushing for generic hobby stores like Hobby Lobby or Michaels?  That would really increase their exposure since there are Hobby Lobby's and Michaels in every town in the USA.  If they release some Imperial Guard kits at a lower price and at a coupon-heavy store like Michaels, I might have to return to Warhammer 40K.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 28, 2016, 04:28:53 AM
I'm curious how they'll tackle this.  Larger stores/chains won't put up with GW's control over internet sales etc.  This could be a back route into some of those kits.  As mentioned above, if a normal model shop carries them and decide to discount them heavily - or sell them online at discount, this could be interesting.

I think it's a smart move for them - and I think  the coloured plastic is not a terrible idea.

PS: At suggested $39 MSRP for the larger kits, it looks like you get some terrain a handful of Nobz, and a helicopter --- and the box art seems to indicate a handful of marines and a dreadnought?  Not a bad deal if you end up finding these are 25% off.  I'd guess these are mostly older/simple kits, maybe even some from previous starter boxes (snap together marines etc?)

Curious to see where this goes, and it'd be nice if this is an indication of a new approach by GW.  This coupled with the return of specialist games and those new reasonably priced starter boxes are all good omens.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on January 28, 2016, 08:32:56 AM
I'm actually kinda shocked to see GW even considering gaining sales by lowering prices and cooperating with other retailers...  :o That's a full 180 on their policy for the last two decades or so.
Maybe there is a way out of the madness for them yet. (Still maintaining a "seeing is believing" attitude though.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 28, 2016, 08:52:36 AM
 :o GW not burning/destroying old not current release/special limited edition moulds etc  :o

Thats a huge  :o

I really can't  :o enough.

So maybe come November in UK we see this in WHSmith's etc, next to the model airplane/tanks etc.

Still,  as already mentioned seeing it in a shop for me will be believing it for me to. So something to wait and see for.

Still quite amazed at the novelty of it coming from GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Redmao on January 28, 2016, 01:25:34 PM
I like this approach.
Introduce kids into the hobby and model painting with affordable kits which they can even play a game with.
I like the colored plastic idea, so they'll be able to be played with right out of the box.

I wonder if they'll include a rule leaflet in the box or just put a website address with online rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on January 28, 2016, 01:28:11 PM
Reminds me of the Revell sets I bought when I started out with model planes as a kid. You bought a set with a simple plane, some paints, glue and a brush. I loved it and I have fond memories of that period. So thank you Revell and go Games Workshop!
Let's just hope that in 20 years there are lots of veteran gamers who go all misty eyes when they think back to those starter kits GW did "back in 2016" :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 28, 2016, 01:47:11 PM
The products they are selling this way are old and very outdated.

That ork truck? Good lord. It's horrendous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 28, 2016, 01:58:35 PM
I have that truck, and while it's not the prettiest thing ever, it's still better than that monstrosity they produced with tracks instead of wheels (can't even bring myself to look it up, it offends/saddens me so much :D)

It could be interesting if these are sold in WH Smith (who bought the model company whose name escapes me). Given that they're usually more expensive than anywhere else for stuff, it could be cheaper to actually buy them in GW shops ;D

What I found curious from that post is that they're stating a "returns in 2017" release for the new BloodBowl. That's a pretty long lead time, hopefully not an indication of the pace at which they plan to release the other titles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 28, 2016, 04:14:39 PM
And I'll go ahead and say it...not digging the look of the Blood Bowl minis personally.  Not really surprising there though.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 28, 2016, 04:33:07 PM
Well, its a novel untried approach for them.

So expect them to do it badly compared to the likes of airfix, revell etc, who to them this is pretty much bread and butter - model, paints and a brush etc. in a box. Rules not necessary

Rules - probably printed on the box, basic simple starter set rules something like

1. buy blue set
2. buy red set
3. bash red ones against blue ones until bits fall off - winner!

Repeat from step 1.

Advance GW bash'em - downloadable, maybe free, only available on apple devices for the first year?

1. buy blue set
2. buy red set
3. supply own dice
4. roll dice
5. bash red ones against blue ones until bits fall off - winner!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on January 28, 2016, 05:18:13 PM
The bit about GW products in toy stores isn't new to you guys though, is it? I've often seen GW boxes (starter sets and plastic unit boxes) and paints in Swedish toy stores, although I think they may have stopped that now. Some 7-10 years ago I'd buy Citadel paints in those places out of convenience. Didn't toy stores carry GW products in the rest of the world?

I've never seen GW products geared specifically for toy stores before, though.


Quote from: Elbows on January 28, 2016, 04:14:39 PM
And I'll go ahead and say it...not digging the look of the Blood Bowl minis personally.  Not really surprising there though.  lol

These (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/01/breaking-gw-shows-new-blood-bowl-minis.html)? Could be better, could be worse, I suppose. Pretty much as expected. I expect the Necromunda and Mordheim stuff will be similar in style, which isn't ideal for me, but I can live with it... up to a certain price point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on January 28, 2016, 05:27:07 PM
Hereabouts they had GW products in craft and also toy stores way back when, so nothing new really if their products end up in toy stores and craft stores again. I guess the prices will be still pretty high.

Those BB minis look quite decent enough, funny though that the BOLS people don't recognise the player types, at least it seems there's a human catcher and blitzer and Ork blitzer and thrower, not quarterbacks and linesmen...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 28, 2016, 05:50:11 PM
No one's ever accused BOLS of being smart.

I like the Ork players a bit. Better than the old ones!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 28, 2016, 05:57:40 PM
Yeah, the minis are okay...but they're rather Grimdark and obviously very in-line with the modern "too much" design philosophy.  It's all well and good...I don't play Blood Bowl except on the computer.  lol

And now, so many companies produce notBlood Bowl minis it's no big issue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 28, 2016, 06:08:54 PM
Yeah too grim dark as you say. The old minis, goblins especially, were a lot more fun looking and kid friendly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 28, 2016, 07:20:23 PM
I loved the Goblin team. Pure fun. Win lose or draw, never mattered.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 28, 2016, 07:33:02 PM
That was very much the Orc/Goblin method back in the day.  Heck even in 40K you could never build a competitive list with any guarantee of winning...and that was the point.  Half your Stormboyz would fly off the board or explode, and the Shokk Attack gun, big-lobba (or whatever the rocket with the ball n' chain was called), etc. would just cause mayhem.  It was very much simply a silly army...not a tournament-hardened meta book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on January 28, 2016, 07:44:02 PM
By the way, that tagline "The Original Fantasy Football Game" is kind of interesting. Vaguely implying the existence of other fantasy football games is probably the closest GW has come in a long, long time to acknowledging they're not the only entity in the industry.


Quote from: Elbows on January 28, 2016, 07:33:02 PM
That was very much the Orc/Goblin method back in the day.  Heck even in 40K you could never build a competitive list with any guarantee of winning...and that was the point.  Half your Stormboyz would fly off the board or explode, and the Shokk Attack gun, big-lobba (or whatever the rocket with the ball n' chain was called), etc. would just cause mayhem.  It was very much simply a silly army...not a tournament-hardened meta book.

So true.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on January 28, 2016, 07:51:17 PM
Seems that most of you have played the game(s) in wrong type of company. Never attended a tournament myself (as the idea of tournament is mostly about winning it, isn't it?) and never played with any power-gamer types either. I suggest to try just playing amongst your friends and especially with those who enjoy a good narrative game and flexibility amongst the rules, lists and whatnots. It kind of takes away the stress factor from gaming and makes it what it should be in the first place, fun. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 28, 2016, 08:17:27 PM
And it used to be...when I played back in 2nd edition, and even a little bit of 3rd.  The issue here is that the rules have gone far more tournament/meta...removing character and fun in pursuit of constant power-creep point/counter-point, etc. 

And if I'm honest, the rules are a bit crap...so I'm fine taking some cool figs but I've no interest in playing their rules sets anymore. lol 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 28, 2016, 08:40:53 PM
But that's what its really all about isn't it.

Its supposed to be fun. I want it to be fun - never ever bothered beyond the first look with tournament stuff - if I wanted to play with numbers, stats and lists like that I would have second job as an accountant for a hobby.

No. give me some silly and some fun, some Dark/Grim marines and nutcase orcs etc.

I remember them in shops, they were readily available in local model shops and smiths etc, no need for a dedicated one-man-band store, it was interesting and oh, I wish them luck with it and there's always room for some hope.

Granted I probably won't be able to afford it. After all its a GW product, if those are the prices they are quoting now, before they possibly hit the shops in November... How much more will they cost when they are actually available  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on January 28, 2016, 08:41:54 PM
I haven't tried out the latest editions of GW rules for many years so I must have missed several different versions already. Maybe I should buy again the early versions of 40K and FB rules and use them  :) Then again I'm not that much into mass battles anymore in the first place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on January 28, 2016, 08:51:39 PM
All this news sounds promising. Although I have to put on my tinfoil hat before I start thinking too hard about why those BB humans look like they'd be more comfortable with a lasgun in their hands instead of a halberd.

Second GW fantasy game to leave the old world behind? Will there be a sigmarine team?

Gah! Too late.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 28, 2016, 08:54:00 PM
That's another key point for most of my game group...no interest in amassing large armies of figures.  The closest we come is the Rampant series, with 50-60 models a side or so.  I'll be honest, 2nd edition was far more abusive if you wanted to do so, and it was still not an excellent set of wargaming rules, but it had a lot of character/flavor and did much more to present the differences in the races and the cultures of the universe.

Almost every other wargaming rules set I've played since has been better...so I'm not even on an Old Hammer-esque kick, outside of the coolness of some of the older figures/models.  I still like the universe but I'd be fine playing it with other rules -as you're looking for in your skirmish thread pocoloco.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on January 31, 2016, 12:37:04 PM
So... I'm still wondering about the significance of that "Middle Earth Model Designer" job advert linked to a few pages back. What is the situation with GW and the numerous Tolkien-based licenses these days? They must be holding on to some license if they're still intending to make "new Middle Earth products".

I think there's at least three licenses: LotR movies, Hobbit movies, and the original books.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 31, 2016, 08:36:04 PM
This old thing

http://investor.games-workshop.com/2011/02/09/243/

Not sure if there's anything more recent/detailed but would it be valid to assume a similar 6 years?

Maybe a last gasp - specialist game resurrection to eke something out of it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on January 31, 2016, 09:30:02 PM
Growing up, I remember GW stuff (games, models, and paints) in toy stores/toy and craft stores. Maybe that was because it was Ireland in the 80s, and the economy and the population for a long time just couldn't support a dedicated games store. The only one I knew of and frequented was a store called The Dice Man in Dublin - what a dark cavern of a store that was! But they stocked roleplaying games, and Citadel miniatures, and miniatures from companies I didn't even know existed. Actually, now that I think about it, in the late eighties/early nineties, Virgin Megastore in Dublin used to sell RPGs and so on. Looking forward to Blood Bowl, to be honest. If it's good, and the models are nice, then it's a win. If it's not good (hard to imagine, really, unless they completely change the game), and the models are not good, then so be it. It's not like I'll stop playing Blood Bowl with the models and living rulebook that I already have. I will always be thankful to GW for being the gateway for me to tabletop games (other than roleplaying games), and what they are attacked for calling "the hobby" (which to me means everything around the game - miniatures, conversions, painting, terrain, and what-have-you). However much they disappoint me with what they're doing now, or have been doing in the last decade and more, I'm not going to attack them or badmouth them about it. It would be a bit like turning on your first girlfriend, or the first girl you kissed as a teenager - what would be the point, twenty or thirty years later?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Rhoderic on January 31, 2016, 10:05:29 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 31, 2016, 08:36:04 PM
This old thing

http://investor.games-workshop.com/2011/02/09/243/

Not sure if there's anything more recent/detailed but would it be valid to assume a similar 6 years?

Maybe a last gasp - specialist game resurrection to eke something out of it?

I'm just very confused, then. What was all the talk about the licenses lapsing now? I haven't been paying full attention to developments at GW, so I may be in need of an infodump here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 31, 2016, 11:31:40 PM
Quote from: Rhoderic on January 31, 2016, 10:05:29 PM
I'm just very confused, then. What was all the talk about the licenses lapsing now? I haven't been paying full attention to developments at GW, so I may be in need of an infodump here.

Not sure, as that was just a quick google foo find.

Not really that up to speed on it either, for all I know the license will lapse before whoever they hire learns how to sculpt GW style?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 01, 2016, 01:33:45 AM
Quote from: Hawkeye on January 31, 2016, 09:30:02 PM
Growing up, I remember GW stuff (games, models, and paints) in toy stores/toy and craft stores. Maybe that was because it was Ireland in the 80s, and the economy and the population for a long time just couldn't support a dedicated games store.

I think it still has problems now. I know of five gaming shops around Belfast/east Ulster that closed down, and I only found out about three of them today.

Up here, AFAIK that leaves one in Newtownards and... GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on February 01, 2016, 06:48:44 PM
You're right, Vermis, Ireland is going through a bad recession again (as is Spain, and...so on). I was thinking more about how I considered it quite normal to buy GW stuff in toy stores right into the early oughties (what are we calling the first decade of the century, anyway?). Plus, while I don't particularly like GW anymore (either their games or their miniatures - although I did buy the plastic greatswords a while ago - lovely miniatures), I don't have any venom for them either. They introduced me to miniatures gaming, and I had lots of fun and have fond memories of first edition Warhammer, and those old Citadel blister packs, and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay - fantastic! They made my teenage years what they were, for better or for worse.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on February 02, 2016, 12:49:20 PM
FNAC went through a phase of having their stuff in stores in this part of the world for a while, but they seem to have given up on that. Not sure they got many sales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 02, 2016, 01:20:49 PM
Quote from: Hawkeye on February 01, 2016, 06:48:44 PM
You're right, Vermis, Ireland is going through a bad recession again (as is Spain, and...so on).

Belfast and Ulster are UK, not Republic of Ireland. I think I'll leave it there because this one's a powder keg!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on February 02, 2016, 09:23:52 PM
I think it's pretty normal to use the term "Ireland" to refer to the whole island, Cubs, without causing any discord. Nobody said anything about the republic specifically. I'm Irish - grew up and went to school and college in Dublin - and I don't think there was any confusion between me and Vermis about what we were talking about. Ireland - all of it - had terrible economic problems in the eighties, and it looks like the same thing is happening now. Obviously, that has an impact on leisure activities and luxury items (which wargaming items are, obviously), but my point was that Ireland in the early eighties hadn't yet had an initial opportunity to have those sorts of shops around. It (the island of Ireland) had to wait for quite a while for that, I think. Then when they appeared, the economy tanked again, so a lot of the specialty shops fell on hard times. It all makes for interesting sales venues/opportunities for tabletop games, except of course that now we have the internet.

[Edit] Actually, to be more precise, when I initially talked about Ireland, I guess I was referring to what I know (the Republic), and then Vermis confirmed that the situation was the same in Northern Ireland. There was nothing political to the discussion, in any case.

I hadn't realized that FNAC once had these sort of items for sale. Interesting. A bit like the Virgin Megastore having them. Games Workshop's sales team were clearly on the ball in the last decade of the twentieth century!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 03, 2016, 12:05:06 AM
Quote from: Hawkeye on February 02, 2016, 09:23:52 PM
[Edit] Actually, to be more precise, when I initially talked about Ireland, I guess I was referring to what I know (the Republic), and then Vermis confirmed that the situation was the same in Northern Ireland. There was nothing political to the discussion, in any case.

I wonder if it's not so much a matter of politics or economy, but awareness. Maybe it's because I grew up in a more rural area, but I don't remember seeing any GW products in shops around here (apart from that weird 'White Dwarf' thing in occasional newsagents), and on rare trips to bigger shopping towns I was more interested in the TMNT action figures and later, the computer games.
I have a feeling the 'average person on the street' awareness of any wargaming at all might be less than across the Irish Sea. Maybe it isn't, but if it is, it might be because of the only two, lonely GW shops in Belfast and Dublin, if you consider GW high street presence* to be important to introductions to wargaming. And that might be because Belfast and Dublin could be the only two population centres big enough to support GW shops.

(Man, Belfast still seems huge and sprawling to me. Imagine how I felt when I went to Birmingham for Games Day and London for Salute.)

*Mind you, despite being in the big, flashy Castlecourt shopping centre, I dunno if GW Belfast has much of a presence, tucked away in at the back. I'd been to Castlecourt dozens of times before realising it was there. And on that day, Trish Morrison felt an inexplicable chill...

(Although, to combine politics and economy, I agree that during GW's heyday in the 80s and 90s, Belfast had a lot on it's plate. I won't say too much more than that.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on February 03, 2016, 12:52:09 AM
Quote from: Vermis on February 03, 2016, 12:05:06 AM
I wonder if it's not so much a matter of politics or economy, but awareness. Maybe it's because I grew up in a more rural area, but I don't remember seeing any GW products in shops around here (apart from that weird 'White Dwarf' thing in occasional newsagents), and on rare trips to bigger shopping towns I was more interested in the TMNT action figures and later, the computer games.
I have a feeling the 'average person on the street' awareness of any wargaming at all might be less than across the Irish Sea. Maybe it isn't, but if it is, it might be because of the only two, lonely GW shops in Belfast and Dublin, if you consider GW high street presence* to be important to introductions to wargaming. And that might be because Belfast and Dublin could be the only two population centres big enough to support GW shops.

(Man, Belfast still seems huge and sprawling to me. Imagine how I felt when I went to Birmingham for Games Day and London for Salute.)

*Mind you, despite being in the big, flashy Castlecourt shopping centre, I dunno if GW Belfast has much of a presence, tucked away in at the back. I'd been to Castlecourt dozens of times before realising it was there. And on that day, Trish Morrison felt an inexplicable chill...

(Although, to combine politics and economy, I agree that during GW's heyday in the 80s and 90s, Belfast had a lot on it's plate. I won't say too much more than that.)

I spent a lot of my free time between 1995 and 2000 in the GW in Belfast. The main reason I knew it was there is that we used that entrance and walked through castle court everytime we went into town. Once I discovered it I was glad that I could get off the bus on the way home from school in the city center, go to GW for a bit, then walk out the back to North Street and get the next bus the rest of the way home.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on February 03, 2016, 05:32:06 AM
All that makes sense, although initially I was talking about the eighties, long before GW started its chain of shops (or at least long before a GW shop arrived in Ireland). I do remember that by the time the GW store arrived in Dublin, just on the north side of the Halfpenny Bridge, I was no longer doing any tabletop gaming, of course. Perfect timing. The high street presence thing is a whole side of this that has its own mysteries to it too, of course. But my teenage years - which were enormously influenced by roleplaying games and early fantasy wargaming - were long before the GW high street presence, and I wonder if that is one of the reasons I don't have the pretty nasty attitude toward all things Games Workshop that I often see displayed in this thread. My memories of Warhammer and miniatures all have to do with a group of five good friends who are to this day - thirty and even thirty-five years later - STILL my very good friends, in no small part because of the gaming through which we bonded when we were adolescent males who didn't have any idea how to bond with their friends. Again, no matter what GW is like now, how can I be anything but grateful for what they've done for me?

(I can almost feel a "What has Games Workshop ever given us?" Monty Python-esque rant on the way!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 03, 2016, 10:26:17 AM
Quote from: Hawkeye on February 02, 2016, 09:23:52 PM
Actually, to be more precise, when I initially talked about Ireland, I guess I was referring to what I know (the Republic), and then Vermis confirmed that the situation was the same in Northern Ireland.

Gotcha. Sorry, my bad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on February 04, 2016, 02:54:54 AM
Quote from: Hawkeye on February 03, 2016, 05:32:06 AM
(I can almost feel a "What has Games Workshop ever given us?" Monty Python-esque rant on the way!)

Nope, not from me. GW gave us here in Denmark the first easily accessible commercially available table-top miniatures games, that were, to some extent, the sole reason that some gaming Clubs came into existence (there was also that D&D/AD&D thing, but as RPGs could be easily played at one participant's home, they weren't the main factor).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on February 04, 2016, 05:25:43 AM
That's what I'm getting at too, Argonor. Somebody unhappy with GW will start by asking "what have they ever given us?" expecting everybody to agree with them that we have nothing to thank GW for. But then instead people start to add items to a really long list of great stuff they've given us (as I started to do in a couple of my previous posts). Sorry there seems to be some misunderstanding - I think we actually agree with each other. First Edition Warhammer. Early White Dwarf. 'Eavy Metal painting articles. Rogue Trader. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. Plastic multi-part minis. Mordheim. Blood Bowl. Necromunda. Space Hulk. Citadel acrylic paints (and washes!). Early Chaos Warriors. Early Eldar. Sisters of Battle. Oh, their games like Battlecars, the Judge Dredd RPG, so many things. Jesus, that's a pretty good track record! I mean, they're not perfect, but my god, look what they've given us. I may never play a currently-in-production GW game again, and I may scratch my head about their business and pricing decisions, and so on, but I will always be grateful for what they've done for the modern tabletop gaming hobby, and for how that shaped my teenage years. What more can you ask for from a company? I know this thread mostly seems to be about bashing GW, but I can't  bring myself to do it, even at the same time that I can't bring myself to be interested in anything they produce anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on February 04, 2016, 08:10:34 AM
I think that is part of the reason many of us are so unhappy with GW: They've done so much to grow and advance wargaming in the past and have made good products, grown settings we have really come to care about. But now they are making a shambles of it. They're squandering their legacy and for me, someone who still hasn't fully left the GW worlds behind, my reminisces and current project are tainted by the companies current shenanigans and attitude. At least, that's my reason for being annoyed with/critical of GW and shooting off the occasional cynical comment. I want GW to be good again and reclaim their creative/pioneer position, but they stubbornly keep doing what seems to be the opposite.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on February 04, 2016, 09:02:31 AM
Absolutely agree.

GW gave many of us an entry into  imaginative, detailed fantasy worlds, providing entertainement and escapism. Not all of them were GWs but others via licence. even before they started creating their own.

Their contribution cannot be understated in any regard, to UK gaming hobbies and other countries beyond that.

The sadness and gripe, and complaint, is in their more modern and recent historical behaviour and attitudes towards what is their livelihood -  their customers.

They have managed to sail their business through the hobby for many years, and hopefully will continue for many more, but that does not stop us wanting/wishing them to behave in a, well, frankly better way towards their customer base - existing and future.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: olyreed on February 04, 2016, 10:38:29 AM
Dont know if this is of interest to anyone, looks like it has a lot of potential, Chain of Command meets 40k

http://playingtheodds.com.au/chain-of-command-warhammer-40k/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on February 04, 2016, 04:20:03 PM
No, I understand that, Modhail and Tactalvanic. It just seems to me that the vitriol often seems to be far in excess of what might be expected. I prefer to be happy about what they gave us, rather than bitter about the fact that thirty years later (and more) they're not able to continue doing what they once did. Is it disappointing - I guess it is, but in some ways it's to be expected. I guess what I mean is that the intensity of hatred that's often directed at GW is such that it's difficult to imagine that the person expressing it ever felt anything positive for the company, or its games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on February 04, 2016, 09:54:25 PM
Valid point, I forget sometimes that the discussions/comments and viewpoints in other parts of the interwebs get a bit... extreme.

Amply demonstrated by some reactions to the destruction of the old world, here comes AOS.

I  was,  myself sad, but not fussed, still can play - some other people - well - went a bit nuts.

But that's people.  Some can be greatly impacted by something so much that like/dedication, love even, becomes serious hate..

I am not happy with them and will rib GW happily, but I am not burning my collection or plotting the demise of executive staff members etc.

But that can happen with any hobby or even thing -  Mattel and the new Barbie/s, I bet there are some extreme reactions to that as well that will boggle the mind in their intensity  :o

In the end they are just models/toys/figures etc - but I can see kids having to take their barbie doll to the shops now to make sure they get the right size clothes/accessories.. Maybe they will install special tiny changing rooms in the toy shops or something?

Still at least we are mostly stable in our eccentricities around here. Now where did I put my medication?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 04, 2016, 10:38:38 PM
Same as anything, I think the greatest emotional reaction came from those who felt they had invested the most in the company and then felt betrayed by the direction they took.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 05, 2016, 05:56:41 AM
I also think we need to remember that there is an entire class of hobbyist/gamer who solely concentrates on one hobby product: 40K or Fantasy.  While a lot of people play a number of games, run a bunch of systems, have numerous projects - there is a large crowd out there who buy one game, stick to it, and are solely invested in that game.  If your entire gaming/hobby world was Warhammer Fantasy, I can understand the anger/angst/spite etc.

I know a load of folks who owned/collected 40K and absolutely nothing else...didn't even play other games (hell, they may not have known other games existed!).  Some people base their entire hobby around attending conventions/tournaments based around their chosen game.  For those types, it would have been a pretty big deal for it to all go up in smoke.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: cutp on February 05, 2016, 06:37:51 AM
all: soooo many good points

a little sad, still have unpainted GW stuff to paint, still love it [Mordheim!], moved on to other stuff, still go back to Mordheim time to time [still have BFG, WFB, advanced heroquest, 40K etc in garage but inactive]

still like GW & FW sculpts and [old] fluff...but haven't bought in forever

like newer IPs from other companies too

me now: strange aeons, mordheim, x-wing, imperial assault, zombicide black plague, etc

hoping everyone still loving playing games and creating content/product for the games u love...painting, mods, terrain etc.

is GW ex-boyfriend/girlfriend[-ish]?

more disappointed than mad

curious about the specialist re-boot...

:)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Streetline on February 05, 2016, 10:29:31 AM
Quote
is GW ex-boyfriend/girlfriend[-ish]?

An ex partner most of us look at, shake our heads and wonder what happened.  Such potential.  Such fun.  We thought it was forever but we were young, we moved on, went in different directions.  Now we have new, often younger, partners, better in many ways; but your first is always your first.  Now we look at look at pictures of what they're up to on the internet.  And sometimes, when we can afford it, we go back.

Doesn't sound very wholesome...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 05, 2016, 04:22:39 PM
What Elbows said. The 'GW Hobby' view isn't just upheld by GW itself. I've seen plenty of gamers who don't see any point in even glancing at other games, considering their minis inferior and even viewing WFB's 'giant skirmish' mechanics to be the proper way of mass battle games. Although a lot of those who moved to KoW to get their mass battle fix after WFB blew up, were surprised how much they liked unit-based mechanics...

Me, I've all but moved on too, at least out of the 'GW is wargaming' mindset, but it wasn't entirely by choice. If you want to torture the ex-partner analogy, it's like an ex who's almost always sauntering by, making googoo eyes at you while still being the psycho hose beast (http://media4.popsugar-assets.com/files/2010/08/32/4/192/1922283/stacey-wayne_s-world/i/Stacy-Wayne-World.jpg) that chased you off.

(Does that make AoS the gun rack?)

I'll still buy GW stuff, for gaming in the old warhammer world; but - at the mo - only their smaller models at deep discounts, and only for smaller skirmish armies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 08, 2016, 11:42:31 AM
I'm still at the point where I really wish I could still love GW, but the things I loved seem to be gone. Maybe we'll go back to being friends one day, but not yet.

Also, I'm slightly annoyed that they put up a 'last chance to buy' section after they axed oxyotyl...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 08, 2016, 05:14:04 PM
When they killed Warhammer, I don't even look for nostalgic reasons anymore.

A local retailer says he is only carrying 40k from now, everything else is dead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 08, 2016, 05:27:59 PM
From a retail store point...I actually thought it would have been interesting to stock the following:

-Starter Box
-"Start Collecting" box for each faction (assuming they eventually do more to cover the races)
-Paint sets and some hobby bits, White Dwarf
-Specialist Games (if they ever release them proper)

And leave the rest to order, and have a catalogue handy.  I've never seen a hobby store which could afford to have anywhere near 20% of the 40K range available on the shelf.  The start collecting boxes would help with that. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 08, 2016, 06:36:52 PM
The shop I'm talking about carries (carried?) more than a GW store. For them to be all but done with GW says a LOT!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 08, 2016, 09:47:35 PM
I guess I mean, I can see a "retail lite" version of GW's (admittedly, rather silly) retail procedures.  They've always done all they could to minimize shops carrying their product, whether knowingly or not.

I feel as if you could come up with a easy intro-package with a lighter buy in for hobby shops.  We all know most hobbyshops are run on a shoe-string budget and often can't afford the huge buy-in required for certain GW products.  I think it'd be smart for GW to get exposure by using a lighter method.  You can't expect most hobbyshops to carry 1100+ product codes.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on February 12, 2016, 04:18:41 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 04, 2016, 10:38:38 PM
Same as anything, I think the greatest emotional reaction came from those who felt they had invested the most in the company and then felt betrayed by the direction they took.

Or it's the mistaken sense of entitlement that seems to be perpetuating society in general nowadays.

Imagine a guy who bought Ford Escorts every year from their introduction back in the day... when they stopped making them he most likely didn't set his on fire or storm the gates of Dagenham, he got on with his life. I've no idea whether he would soldier on with the last one he bought, buying spare parts where he could find them, or whether he just bought something else. I don't imagine he sat in the pub moaning incessantly about it for months though.

 ;)

I'm another Proto-High Street Shop fan. I remember the licensed products and while I wasn't into fantasy, they had historicals back then... essentially what passes as Wargames Foundry today. I even bought some of their Warhammer products to adapt to medieval games and wished someone could do the same for historicals... which eventually happened much later.

It all changed a long time ago for me, although I didn't feel the angst or betrayal some people appear to... things change, you move on.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 12, 2016, 05:01:37 PM
I have to say, I don't think it's a sense of entitlement at all.

Unlike the average wargame, Warhammer Fantasy had been around for 30+ years.  As I mentioned in another post, there are people whose whole hobby was this particular game, collecting, gaming, competing, attending tournaments etc.  Many folks had huge amounts of time, money etc. invested in a hobby genre/platform that they had no reason to expect to suddenly cease.  That's a crap way to treat a large portion of your customer base.

Now, that's not saying they can't continue to game in the last generation etc.  but the continuation of their hobby world is no more.  That sucks.  This isn't like discontinuing a board game, etc.  I think Mantic is being smart with their new KoW which will seek to provide a way for people to continue, but I suspect a lot of Warhammer folks won't move to another company even if the game supports their figures.

Entitlement is not partaking in a hobby or a gaming "world" for 10-20-30 years and then have it disappear.  That's just bad business and piss-poor customer service. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on February 12, 2016, 06:34:47 PM
I don't want to press the point, but the "we're special" is exactly what I mean... there are vintage Escort owners out there whose hobby is all of the things you've claimed for Warhammer Fantasy... there are probably a few more examples of the sudden end of something that was important to some group or other. 'The Escort' (WHF) is gone, how about a 'Ford Focus' instead (AoS)?

I won't argue that it wasn't a shitty thing to do and the way they went about it was wrong on many levels... but the only relationship there was between GW and its customers, was essentially that of any company and its customers... they sell and you buy, or not, and that's as far as it goes.

I don't wish to come across as blunt and unfeeling and I'm not, I think it was a phenomenal mistake on their part... but there it is. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on February 12, 2016, 06:48:21 PM
I sometimes wonder if Warhammer will enter the Specialist Games Arena.

There is a precedent for it, since apparently during a similar major campaign involving Archaon, years back, that was a practice run for end times (One that GW allowed the customers to choose the outcome for) which resulted in Grimgor beating Chaos, saving the Empire and then wandering of back to the Badlands to put another warband together. Games Workshop rapidly delegated this outcome as apart of some 'Alternate Universe', where Chaos was laid low and the world carries on (and was promptly never spoken of again).

Personally with the Old world gone, I'm just more inclined to use Warhammer stuff in my own fantasy setting to keep certain aspects of Warhammer alive for myself at least, expand on it and provide more variety (because lets be honest, it wasn't like Warhammer was particularly deep, there were some exceptions, but generally the setting came second to waging mass fantasy battles as was to be expected).

Honestly I do like the idea behind AoS with different dimensions.
Some of the Models are actually kind of cool.
It just sucks that this new setting couldn't have been an extension of and co-existing with the original Warhammer, without needing to obliterate it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on February 12, 2016, 07:12:06 PM
Is it really true that the people who invested a lot of time, energy, money, and so on into Warhammer had no reason to think it would suddenly cease? I can't think of anything, really, that anyone could not reasonably expect to change over a thirty-year period. In fact, I think it's amazing - almost unbelievable, in fact - that people got to play Warhammer (albeit in different editions) for as long as they did, with really only gradual changes occurring from edition to edition. Surely nobody playing particular computer games franchises expects to still be playing them thirty years later? Or people reading a series of novels by a particular writer - do they expect to still be reading new novels in the series after thirty years? I don't think so, and I don't understand why anybody expected this to be the case for Warhammer, or why anybody will expect it to be the case for other miniature games, like Warmachine, or Kings of War.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 12, 2016, 07:59:07 PM
Especially when people would have spent thousands on the End Times campaign setting for then all of those new purchases to effectively be null and void when it comes to things like tournaments etc. Yes they can still play it but if you are someone that is involved in going to GW events then that world you invested so many time and hours into is now probably not available any more at these official events. They would also argue that unofficial events, however useful they would be, are not the same therefore not worth time attending. GW has really set themselves up well with the Aura(?) of their events. If they don't set it up, it's not worth going to. GW hobby and all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 12, 2016, 09:23:31 PM
What I really don't get about all of this is why GW not supporting Warhammer stops anyone playing it. I mean, I have no desire to play Warhammer whatsoever, but I still have the first-edition rulebooks (bought second-hand when I was a kid). A couple of months ago, I bought third edition second-hand for a fiver - to amuse my kids with the illustrations and descriptions of monsters, rather than than to play. But if I wanted to play it - well, I would! I've got the book, I've got plenty of miniatures, and I know how the game is played. My opponents generally prefer to play SoBH and Lion/Dragon Rampant, but I'd have no problem persuading them to play a nostalgic game or two of Warhammer.

So - a genuine question - what on earth is stopping everyone else? Third edition had its problems as a game (mainly that it took so long; the magic was also overpowered for my tastes), but if you've got the book, you've got the "world".  And I presume that holds true for other editions as well. Why don't people just play which ever edition they prefer? Why the outcry?

I am genuinely puzzled. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 12, 2016, 10:16:33 PM
That's it though isn't it. GW fanboys even if they have had the rug pulled out from under them won't have anything to do with something not supported by GW. I guess they think GW knows best.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 12, 2016, 10:54:29 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on February 12, 2016, 06:34:47 PM
I don't want to press the point, but the "we're special" is exactly what I mean... there are vintage Escort owners out there whose hobby is all of the things you've claimed for Warhammer Fantasy... there are probably a few more examples of the sudden end of something that was important to some group or other. 'The Escort' (WHF) is gone, how about a 'Ford Focus' instead (AoS)?

If GW just sold models, I'd probably feel the same. But they sold models, and rulesets, and hobby supplies, and very often were the venue for clubs and games. They encouraged and sold a complete wraparound product that immersed people like nothing else I can think of. Everything a devotee bought or touched or read or played with was GW.

And these poor saps have been plugging away and showing immense loyalty to the brand (and brand loyalty is something every product strives for) when other people (like me) have told them they could get better stuff cheaper elsewhere. But the reward of this loyalty is to be told that the world they have invested so much in isn't changing or evolving or transforming ... it's gone. Taken away by the people who told them to invest so much in it in the first place! And that's what I mean by those who have invested the most, feeling the most cheated.

GW has encouraged its fans to not treat their product like any other product, they have groomed them to treat it like a way of life, telling them that non-Warhammer stuff is invalid in their world ... and then nuked that world out of existence. Sure, they can can still use the models and the rules, but the universe itself that formed the whole backbone is gone (as has the official support) and they probably feel pretty stupid for remaining loyal so long.   

I feel bad for them, I'll be honest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 12, 2016, 11:21:29 PM
Quote from: Hawkeye on February 12, 2016, 07:12:06 PM
Is it really true that the people who invested a lot of time, energy, money, and so on into Warhammer had no reason to think it would suddenly cease? I can't think of anything, really, that anyone could not reasonably expect to change over a thirty-year period. In fact, I think it's amazing - almost unbelievable, in fact - that people got to play Warhammer (albeit in different editions) for as long as they did, with really only gradual changes occurring from edition to edition.

Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 12, 2016, 09:23:31 PM
Why the outcry?

I am genuinely puzzled. :)

What Beefcake and Cubs said. For years GW built up the idea of keeping up with the Joneses, especially to play in tournaments and in pickup games with relative strangers (apparently around the world, too), and also with constant shakeups and revisions making certain units more powerful than they were, or a certain army the 'winner's' choice, and so on. Older versions become 'unsupported', and 'unsupported' means 'dead'.

Believe me, it bothers me to see gamers hostage to this attitude too, and 'why don't you use another edition (or game)?' is a question I've asked plenty of times, myself. And while I've had few good answers, I've often been given the reply "because I only have the time and opportunity to play pickup games in a GW shop". That brings up more questions and suspicions, but on the face of it some people are restricted, to some extent, in where and how they play; restricted by the framework GW set up, if you like.

Speaking for myself, my earlier post - about the break not being entirely by choice - is personal experience. I was part of the group of veterans ejected from GW Belfast years ago, about the time they banned SGs in store. Some of us had no other obvious gaming venue and it did look like the end. To be honest I do like to see it as the best thing GW did for my hobby, since one of the other vets started inviting us to his home for game nights, and we started trying a lot of newer, better games. But it still leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. For people who've been pushed out by the more mercenary attitude of latter-day GW, rather than gradually moving on from early, friendly, chirpy, nudge-and-a-wink-from-Brian-Ansell-and-Rick-Priestly GW, it probably still tastes bitter.

(Yeah, I know, they were always mercenary. There are degrees, though.)

So yes, I have moved on, and would rather play any other game than touch 40K again with a barge pole etc. etc. Thing is, I still have some connection to the company and the games, or the worlds of the games. From what I see a lot of ex-GW gamers feel the same, keeping an eye on the company's goings-on. That leads to a few points:

You wonder why people thought WFB wouldn't end, but the concept and background has been pootling along for decades, and I gather the background is possibly the biggest draw of GW's two core games. You might as well wonder why Star Wars: ANH remains popular and sells merchandise. But later editions of Warhammer were like the SW prequels: waiting for the higher-ups to realise their mistake and put out a good exploration of the universe. It seemed so easy to fix if they wanted to. Maybe a pipe dream in retrospect, but there you are.
With Star Wars, we get Episode 7. Flawed, but moving in the right direction. With WFB, we had the world blown up. Fixing WFB, as a general whole, is an impossibility now. Flawed as it was, the new rules and background are puddle-deep in comparison. This is one of the main complaints I hear, that WFB's falling popularity could've been solved with judicious tweaks and less money-grubbing. As the biggest wargaming company, it seemed impossible that GW couldn't do it. Instead, they went full-bore in the other direction. It's fairly frustrating.

Okay, so, why not play older editions or different rules? Like I say, that's what I already did. Still digging into the Warhammer background with more generic rules, and buying some GW minis to do it, too. For all their faults I thought GW did some pretty good, relatively generic fantasy minis and other concepts. Problem was how much of a premium they felt they had to charge for mass-produced injection-moulded plastic - especially for building big armies. And with AoS barging onto the scene, how long are some of those older minis going to stick around? Even being forced to consider panic buying for armies you've only just started, is irritating. All because GW didn't have the interest to fix WFB or the humility to admit the price for an 8th ed army was prohibitive.

GW dangles this interesting world in front of your nose but doesn't seem to want to make it easy or rewarding to play in their sandbox. Is that a TL;DR? I think that can be a TL;DR.

Dunno what else to say. I feel there's more grist for the mill. In the meantime, if anyone wants to buy me a set of WFB books from third ed to sixth ed to peruse, I'd be much obliged.

I won't ask for 1st-2nd ed.

I'm not greedy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on February 12, 2016, 11:40:57 PM
Part of the feeling of betrayal from a section of people seems to come from the massive bait-and-switch GW pulled in their eyes with the whole End-Times arc: Drawing gamers in with an epic story line and a break-neck rate of releases for all armies, whipping people into a gaming and buying frenzy as the storyline finally advanced in a dramatic way. Only to pull the plug on the very last day and effectively saying: everything you did and bought the last few months, all the money and time you spent is now immediately and irrevocably meaningless.
And then for the replacement product line to be, really, rather lacklustre. People felt exploited in a rather cynical way.

GW just handled it all really, really poorly from a PR/marketing standpoint. They could have drawn out the End Times arc over several years, instead of jamming it all through in a couple of months. Having people go through the End Times for a few years and stare at the inevitable for a few months before the killing stroke would have made the transition and acceptance gone much smoother that cramming a load of Ex-Machinas in a book and dropping the mic.
Or just introduce Age of Sigmar as a new game, set millennia after Chaos overruns the Old World, next to WFB as a third/fourth core game and then let WFB quietly fade away once most people had transitioned to AoS anyway would be a gentler way to do things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on February 13, 2016, 12:34:39 AM
I could believe the 'bait and switch' was actually more like the executive knife being wielded to avert a snafu... and that consideration for the customer wasn't even a consideration versus "how much will it cost us if we carry on against how much will it cost us if we ditch it?"... ditching it obviously won. If there was a betrayal it was that the customer wasn't even a factor in the decision.

Changes in staff, executives and all that stuff, makes continuity virtually impossible. If the guy who has the storyline in his head, that he's developed over a period of time, gets told "Don't bother coming in Monday", then those ideas and the continuity are gone. I gather the last few years of GW have been a whole series of "Don't come in Monday" for various people that were key to GW from pretty much day one. So perhaps rather than pay someone a lot of man-hours to go over all the lore, they just thought 'can it we'll start again'.

I probably have all the above wrong, I've not been in the scene (such as I could said to be 'in') for decades... but if you had a 'living' setting developed over decades, what else would make you scrap it, if not a profit issue or a complete absence of people who 'know' the storyline?

The other aspect is that long-term customers don't buy enough new product, they typically play with what they have, with the occasional new purchase. Short-term customers play for a few years and then put their stuff on e-bay, which either gets snapped-up by new players (lost sales of new product), or 'oldies' who wouldn't have bought them new in the shop anyway. New 'world' - new market and all that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 13, 2016, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on February 13, 2016, 12:34:39 AM

The other aspect is that long-term customers don't buy enough new product, they typically play with what they have, with the occasional new purchase. Short-term customers play for a few years and then put their stuff on e-bay, which either gets snapped-up by new players (lost sales of new product), or 'oldies' who wouldn't have bought them new in the shop anyway. New 'world' - new market and all that.

This is a real issue, and one that I have sympathy with. Without changing things with new rules, new releases, new mins, the sales for WFB would plateau into a steady trickle.

But is that worse than killing it? If they can't afford to print huge batches of old rules, why not do them as a 'print on demand' thing? That's what Osprey do with with Lion Rampant and that doesn't see to be suffering!

If they can't afford to support miniatures in their stores, why not keep them as an internet sales only gig? If they can't afford to keep them in warehouses, why not do them as a 'cast on demand' thing?

It seems like rather than just leave it alone, let it stay mummified based on the work of previous generations, they couldn't help but fiddle and killed the goose that lay the golden eggs, even if those eggs were smaller than they used to be.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on February 13, 2016, 11:21:19 AM
All of that would require a dynamic and holistic approach by the company's management; which I gather they don't have. Instead they have switchblade-wielding cost-cutters. Likewise 'if' what I hear is true, having 'cheap labour interns' doing the heavy-lifting instead of folk who have grown with the company, then their 'immersion' in the 'World of Warhammer' is going to to be akin to dipping a toe into the pool before deciding not to swim.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 13, 2016, 03:28:40 PM
It was really stunning when Warhammer died. They've already killed Lord of the Rings too.

If they sigmarize 40k, it's the end.

And they only have themselves to blame.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 14, 2016, 05:44:06 AM
Just putting it out there, there's a "last chance to buy" section on their website now. Really wish they'd done that before they nixed the lizardmens.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Redmao on February 14, 2016, 03:28:39 PM
I don't think people should be threatened by the upcoming simplified version of 40K.

GW needs new blood.
Without trying to sound like an old fart, I think that today's kids want it easy. I'm not calling them lazy, but instead of using imagination games, most seem to prefer video games and smart phones where everything is already perfectly laid out for them instead of pretend games like we used to play as kids.
In that optic, GW produced simpler rules for younger players to enjoy without feeling like they are doing homework just to have a squad of plastic soldiers move behind cover. More like a board game set of rules where you only have to roll over a precise number to succeed. Knowing GW, they won't stop producing the more expansive version of 40K in favor of this.

Once kids get really into the game, they'll move to the more advanced rules which offers more army/kit options and a deeper experience. So far, it seems like there will only be a single scenario: blow up the other army which is fine when you're 8 though some of the more interested players will start developing their own missions like we used to.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on February 14, 2016, 03:33:13 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 05, 2016, 05:56:41 AM
I also think we need to remember that there is an entire class of hobbyist/gamer who solely concentrates on one hobby product: 40K or Fantasy.  While a lot of people play a number of games, run a bunch of systems, have numerous projects - there is a large crowd out there who buy one game, stick to it, and are solely invested in that game.  If your entire gaming/hobby world was Warhammer Fantasy, I can understand the anger/angst/spite etc.

I know a load of folks who owned/collected 40K and absolutely nothing else...didn't even play other games (hell, they may not have known other games existed!).  Some people base their entire hobby around attending conventions/tournaments based around their chosen game.  For those types, it would have been a pretty big deal for it to all go up in smoke.

Very much agree.  I think of it this way. If you're a gamer who likes to play weekly or more and frequently attend tournaments, there are comparatively few options available to you.  If you want to really dive into one fictional universe and you enjoy painting miniatures the field shrinks even more and you're basically left with 40k, WHFB, Warmachine and maybe a couple others if you're in a large metropolitan area.

If your taste runs to big fantasy battles then WHFB is the only game in town and it's not at all surprising that those who value a built-in gaming community have flocked for years to 40k and WHFB and been more than willing to pay a high premium for it. Almost no other game offers the same.  

I'm a multi-game kind of guy, I like simple rules and I've got a few friends who do the same.  However, I've got no problem understanding both the mindset of the person who goes all in on 40k or WHFB. Further, I definitely comprehend the frustration when that relationship is severed by a massive change in the game, squat'ing of a favorite army, or any of the other changes that cause groups of folks to abandon the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on February 14, 2016, 07:49:18 PM
Quote from: Redmao on February 14, 2016, 03:28:39 PM
Once kids get really into the game, they'll move to the more advanced rules which offers more army/kit options and a deeper experience. So far, it seems like there will only be a single scenario: blow up the other army which is fine when you're 8 though some of the more interested players will start developing their own missions like we used to.

They could have done that with WFB, but look how that turned out, I suspect a two-tier system is not in their plans... If I was a 40K player I would be hoping for the best but seriously expecting the worst. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 14, 2016, 07:52:38 PM
The big difference is that 40K is still selling plenty.  GW's last sales report had Warhammer Fantasy Battles selling less than their hobby products line (paints/brushes etc.).  I think some blogs stated WHFB was something like 12-13% of their overall income? (while having a GIGANTIC product line...)

If GW loses more marketshare etc. I could actually see them ditching almost everything except 40K.  You could run the company on a fully supported 40K line if you re-shuffle some other finances.

Now, I do think they're going in the right direction for introducing players to 40K.  I don't see 40K dying.  Now, will they possibly slowly start to reduce SKU numbers?  Perhaps.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 14, 2016, 10:36:00 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on February 14, 2016, 05:44:06 AM
Just putting it out there, there's a "last chance to buy" section on their website now. Really wish they'd done that before they nixed the lizardmens.

You haven't seen the 'seraphon' part of the GW site? 8)

Quote from: Redmao on February 14, 2016, 03:28:39 PM
In that optic, GW produced simpler rules for younger players to enjoy without feeling like they are doing homework just to have a squad of plastic soldiers move behind cover. More like a board game set of rules where you only have to roll over a precise number to succeed.

Once kids get really into the game...

That's assuming kids get into the game. For all the trumpeting that GW was shedding old grognards who were killing WFB by not buying anything, AoS didn't seem to draw a swarm of paying children in to replace them.

I'd also say that GW''s core two were already pretty kid-centric, anyway! Numbers in maths homework might not inspire them, but numbers in points list, listbuilding, and mathammering seemed to be the main part of the games, and one of the favourite parts. I'd say that the things about the WFB rules that turned players off were GW messing about with those numbers: imbalanced points costs and rules churn; and some of the randomised, arguably* more tactical elements introduced to 8th ed - like the maligned random charge range - things that couldn't be overcome by fiddling with the strategic listbuilding phase.

*Not that I think it was a particularly good way to make the game more tactical. If that was their intent.

Quote from: Elbows on February 14, 2016, 07:52:38 PM
GW's last sales report had Warhammer Fantasy Battles selling less than their hobby products line (paints/brushes etc.).

I don't disagree that WFB was selling badly, but I thought GW's sales reports didn't go into that much detail?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 15, 2016, 02:14:54 AM
Quote from: Elbows on February 14, 2016, 07:52:38 PM
The big difference is that 40K is still selling plenty.  GW's last sales report had Warhammer Fantasy Battles selling less than their hobby products line (paints/brushes etc.).  I think some blogs stated WHFB was something like 12-13% of their overall income? (while having a GIGANTIC product line...)

If GW loses more marketshare etc. I could actually see them ditching almost everything except 40K.  You could run the company on a fully supported 40K line if you re-shuffle some other finances.

Now, I do think they're going in the right direction for introducing players to 40K.  I don't see 40K dying.  Now, will they possibly slowly start to reduce SKU numbers?  Perhaps.

I could see them killing everything entirely except 40k. That would make so much more sense than what they are doing now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 16, 2016, 07:29:02 AM
Quote from: grant on February 15, 2016, 02:14:54 AM
I could see them killing everything entirely except 40kSpace marines. That would make so much more sense than what they are doing now.

Just revised what you said there lol
Just regress to Horus herey, nothing else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 16, 2016, 10:03:01 AM
Quote from: Vermis on February 14, 2016, 10:36:00 PM
You haven't seen the 'seraphon' part of the GW site? 8)

Yes, but they took out a couple of models from the range.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Glitzer on February 16, 2016, 06:54:24 PM
I just realized GW cancelled the Fantasy Realm of Battle and is now only selling it in a bundle together with lots of AOS ruins (for about twice the last price)

It looks like they really working hard on scaring away any possible customers who come from other games...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 16, 2016, 07:05:37 PM
What did the previous entries include?  Was that their old line of fantasy buildings etc?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 16, 2016, 08:29:04 PM
Realms of battle is their six piece modular battle board IIRC. Kinda strange because I think more people buy that for 40k then AoS.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Glitzer on February 16, 2016, 09:00:36 PM
Quote from: YPU on February 16, 2016, 08:29:04 PM
Realms of battle is their six piece modular battle board IIRC. Kinda strange because I think more people buy that for 40k then AoS.  :?

They still sell the 40K Realm of Battle... just the Fantasy one suddenly disappeared without warning.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 16, 2016, 09:16:45 PM
Sure but I've seen more people play 40k on the "first" fantasy RoB table then on the newer city themed one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 17, 2016, 03:07:03 AM
Quote from: YPU on February 16, 2016, 08:29:04 PM
Realms of battle is their six piece modular battle board IIRC. Kinda strange because I think more people buy that for 40k then AoS.  :?

It's insanely expensive too.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on February 17, 2016, 05:19:15 PM
Do you suppose they will reach the old Rolls-Royce model of not putting an actual price on things, implying that if you have to ask the price then it's not the hobby for you?

I imagine Forge World's six Horus Heresy faux-leather bound books at £74 a go, are really the direction the discerning gamer collector wants to go.

 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 17, 2016, 05:39:03 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on February 17, 2016, 05:19:15 PM

six Horus Heresy faux-leather bound books at £74 a go

 ;)

Sir, that volume, folio if you will, is bound in the finest genuine synthetic that can be artificially created. Clearly, sir appreciates a quality synthetic when he sees it!

Sales pitch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 17, 2016, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: grant on February 17, 2016, 05:39:03 PM
Sir, that volume, folio if you will, is bound in the finest genuine synthetic that can be artificially created. Clearly, sir appreciates a quality synthetic when he sees it!

Sales pitch.

Welcome to the tyrell corporatio....sorry, forgeworld.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on February 17, 2016, 11:07:21 PM
Grant, if it were not for the fact that my family would have had me sectioned under the Mental Health Act for buying that unique example of the bookbinders craft, you'd have made a sale. 

:D

I did note that the books were at the cheap end of the FW spectrum... there's models there that are dearer than some cars I've bought.  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 18, 2016, 01:27:38 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on February 17, 2016, 11:07:21 PM
Grant, if it were not for the fact that my family would have had me sectioned under the Mental Health Act for buying that unique example of the bookbinders craft, you'd have made a sale. 

:D

I did note that the books were at the cheap end of the FW spectrum... there's models there that are dearer than some cars I've bought.  :o

Glad you enjoyed it :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on February 18, 2016, 03:38:35 PM
I suspect that  the GW hobby will devolve to the level of packaging collecting, one day.

There won't be anything in the packaging - box, blister, binder or whatever. Just the GW packaging collector's limited edition boxed sets.

Errr, Litterly.

Boxed sets of Grim/dark/fantasy picture covered boxes.

And then the price rises will of course continue, but as a break from the previous thirty years, rather than reduce the amount of miniatures/pages or whatever that previously would have filled the packaging, they will just make them....

Smaller.

Eventually I can see GW hobby becoming the default home and haunt of dedicated, collectors of high-end, empty collectable match boxes. Really really Grim/Dark/Fantasy empty match boxes.

Then after that, not sure how much smaller they can go, but I am sure they could think of something, maybe just go virtual packaging, digital download instead of actual real physical empty box.

Just a random thought  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on February 19, 2016, 01:10:34 AM
Come and see my GW stamp Collection...?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on February 19, 2016, 03:06:57 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on February 18, 2016, 03:38:35 PM
I suspect that  the GW hobby will devolve to the level of packaging collecting, one day.

There won't be anything in the packaging - box, blister, binder or whatever. Just the GW packaging collector's limited edition boxed sets.

Errr, Litterly.

Boxed sets of Grim/dark/fantasy picture covered boxes.

And then the price rises will of course continue, but as a break from the previous thirty years, rather than reduce the amount of miniatures/pages or whatever that previously would have filled the packaging, they will just make them....

Smaller.

Eventually I can see GW hobby becoming the default home and haunt of dedicated, collectors of high-end, empty collectable match boxes. Really really Grim/Dark/Fantasy empty match boxes.

Then after that, not sure how much smaller they can go, but I am sure they could think of something, maybe just go virtual packaging, digital download instead of actual real physical empty box.

Just a random thought  ;D

There are Paul Rand collectors out there.  At one of the museums in my past, I assembled an exhibit about him using books, book covers, and various product packaging that we loaned from private collectors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on February 19, 2016, 05:22:30 AM
Personally I think they missed the boat years ago, by not charging entry to their numerous 'miniatures galleries', offering a guided tour of the racks for an additional fee and having a small gift shop near the exit which sold miniatures of the miniatures, pencil sharpeners, bookmarkers, postcards and the like.

They could have applied to the Lottery Fund and everything.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 19, 2016, 08:04:23 AM
Or charge to exit the shop?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on February 19, 2016, 08:42:47 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on February 19, 2016, 08:04:23 AM
Or charge to exit the shop?

Both, more on the exit than entry ticket.

Quote from: rebelyell2006 on February 19, 2016, 03:06:57 AM
There are Paul Rand collectors out there.  At one of the museums in my past, I assembled an exhibit about him using books, book covers, and various product packaging that we loaned from private collectors.

Thats actually interesting, and, like with other known graphic designers and artists, help show how they shaped and influenced their surroundings, how they were influnced and the products etc associated with their work.

As with being able to see the packaging of products change over years to match the changing world they are in and the customer base.

GW of course have that policy of not telling who does what? or is that just for rules sets/models?

Quote from: Argonor on February 19, 2016, 01:10:34 AM
Come and see my GW stamp Collection...?  lol

GW stamp collecting. sounds like a good idea, they can sell the IP to different country postal services.

I wish I could take them more seriously after all they have done for the hobby. But I can't.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on February 19, 2016, 02:40:24 PM
I can somehow see 'Penny Black' and a '£50 Ultramarine' stamps competing for 'highest at auction' in some future time.

 ;) 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 20, 2016, 08:43:59 PM
Well, it looks like work ill be taking the price of the latest boxed game straight out of my pay this month ,as the deathwatch miniatures look great. I may even see if i can paint up the store copy....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 21, 2016, 02:10:40 AM
Quote from: nic-e on February 20, 2016, 08:43:59 PM
Well, it looks like work ill be taking the price of the latest boxed game straight out of my pay this month ,as the deathwatch miniatures look great. I may even see if i can paint up the store copy....

I just saw this myself. Pics up on the Dakka news topic:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/671862.page

These are the ones that interest me the most.

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2016/2/20/ae9f00aae632eb3642b0a2b26ba1b757_5394.jpg)

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2016/2/20/763223b971d89f834bb33d0a11c5dfda_5394.jpg)

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2016/2/20/3a7dd7df4da932ed22fdb41b4d8b066e_5394.jpg)

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2016/2/20/267b03e7a359db0339fe8a28444bd2ef_5394.jpg)

There, GW. See what you can do when you really want to?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 21, 2016, 04:26:06 AM
I think I just... Hooray. Hybrids are back! Now I can scour ebay for reduced price metals. Those look really nice as well. Perfect for a Necromunda group as well. I don't think GW has had me this excited in... 15 years? more?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on February 21, 2016, 05:36:06 AM
Quote from: beefcake on February 21, 2016, 04:26:06 AM
I don't think GW has had me this excited in... 15 years? more?

It might not be as long for me, but I admit, I'll have to buy these miniatures, and it'll probably be my first GW purchase since the embargo a few years ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on February 21, 2016, 10:09:41 AM
They do look very slick indeed. Quite amazing in many ways, these are plastic minis. It widens the gulf of quality even further, when you look at what the rest are trying to do with plastics. I'm no GW fanboy, I hate their marketing practices, but have to admit these are pretty damn tempting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on February 21, 2016, 10:35:25 AM
I'm actually liking what GW are trying to do, they seem to be listening to the gaming community a bit more, the prices need working on, but I can see some improvement in what they are doing, the starter army boxes are really good value, and these genestealers look fantastic, I'm very tempted to buy some
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on February 21, 2016, 01:07:59 PM
Well, not sure if they are listening that much - this would have been developed two, three years back? And they certainly don't listen to the volume of complaints on price. Or the love for WHFB. Let's not get carried away here. This is a decent boxset for sure, like all their boxsets. Meanwhile they continue to release single mini clampacks at £18 a pop! Just noticed that they are selling an ork warboss and five nobs, from a previous boxset, at £32 - I think I bought the whole box which contained loads more orks and marines for £60. So yeah, the boxes are good value, but I don't really see signs of improvement, quite the opposite from my standpoint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 21, 2016, 02:35:42 PM
Also this box contains ten named black library characters, in plastic. I've not read the deathwatch books but we're I a fan I'd be pretty happy to get all the characters in one box.(now imagine of they did gaunts ghosts vs cultists amd the men of iron......)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on February 21, 2016, 03:20:08 PM
I do like the models ( a lot), but what about the game?

We all remember the 'we sell models, not games' remarks.

I have no use for these models in other games, so if the game isn't any good, this box isn't

which would be a bloody shame....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 21, 2016, 03:56:01 PM
Fortunately I have a copy of ViDe:FuCo, so I'm set. ;)

For any 40K players, IIRC the 40K rules for these will be in a couple of upcoming WDs. I think I read something about a mini codex in the future, too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 21, 2016, 05:23:56 PM
While I'm not sure they're directly listening to customers they're definitely experimenting with ways to generate additional income, and I do think price is a consideration for them at this point (at least, solely based on entry level expectations).  I still believe the cheap "hook" is there and then you end up feeling compelled to buy a $20 single plastic figure, while you just received 30+ figures for $65 in your starter set.

I think it's obvious to a lot of people that "luxury" boardgames are every where.  There is a big market for $80-100 board games.  I think the new version of specialist board games (Assassin thing, Betrayal at Calth, Deathwatch etc.) are a simple way to get $120-200 out of nostalgic gamers, normal board gamers (who may be unaware of GW and its methods/universe etc.) and as a starter set for people ---- who may discover they like the universe and may eventually look into 40K, etc.

As with all of their starter boxes, they do tend to throw the entire GW pricing structure under the bus...but that's good for us, and maybe still accomplishes there goal of hooking the customer into considering buying more stuff in the future.

Also, it's a great way to get current 40K players to buy several $120 sets to attain limited edition miniatures etc.  Just like BoC is making people buy numerous copies to run full 30K armies, this game will likely be bought up by folks who want to run a Genestealer Hybrid force.  You'll probably have some folks buying 3-4 copies to get enough miniatures to run a full force etc.  Boom, you just sold a $400 army to a customer.

Same thing with the limited edition marines which I imagine will be included - if the game is $120-150, a lot of folks will still buy it just to get those marines.  I think it's some of the smarter stuff GW has done in years.  I'd like to see them continue down this path.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 21, 2016, 06:25:21 PM
For me this box is a whole new frostgrave 40k/ inq28 warband, one so pretty i don't even want to convert them. the marines are pretty awesome, and marines normally bore me (but fuck, that guy is riding a bike with a matreflipping hawk!)
i'll probably use them in something or just paint them up for the fun. Whther i play the deathwatch game is a second issue ,and i imagine most others will feel the same.
If they do bring out a mini dex then yeah, that's it, 40k has pulled me back in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 21, 2016, 07:24:32 PM
I give GW a golf clap for bringing out something nice that people want. It's not my own area of interest, but I do know there are plenty of people who have been waiting for Genestealer Cult stuff and will be drooling over these. Credit where credit's due and all that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on February 21, 2016, 07:27:07 PM
I think I will be getting this. Love the look of the figures and I missed the original Genestealer Cult stuff!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 21, 2016, 08:39:13 PM
If the cultists are available separately, then I'm in - not withstanding that they've just ruined my plan to use the original Magus figure I have to fund my retirement :'(

If they're only available as part of a box set, on the other hand, then I won't be buying. Fingers on all three arms crossed
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 22, 2016, 06:29:04 AM
Quote from: Cubs on February 21, 2016, 07:24:32 PM
I give GW a golf clap for bringing out something nice that people want. It's not my own area of interest, but I do know there are plenty of people who have been waiting for Genestealer Cult stuff and will be drooling over these. Credit where credit's due and all that.

I'm frankly stunned that they seem to be something... right?

Gene stealer cultists have long gone for stupid money. Golf clap indeed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on February 23, 2016, 10:27:13 AM
As someone who is currently trying to make a genestealer cult with chaos attributes and chaos armour etc, the advantage of plastic genestealers are not lost on me. These look really good too. The heads and rms are more dcompatible with the newer purestrains than the old ones presumably, but otherwise they re stylistically quite close to the original Goodwin/Olley sculpts. Presumably Goodwin had a hand in this new developement?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 23, 2016, 03:39:36 PM
They do look like Jes Goodwin work? They are quite appealing.

Don't get me wrong, I won't buy them, as if; but still they are nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Glitzer on February 23, 2016, 11:08:30 PM
Quote from: zemjw on February 21, 2016, 08:39:13 PM
If the cultists are available separately, then I'm in - not withstanding that they've just ruined my plan to use the original Magus figure I have to fund my retirement :'(

If they're only available as part of a box set, on the other hand, then I won't be buying. Fingers on all three arms crossed

Well there's always some SM players who will buy the box only because of the Deathwatch... I guess you can bet to find them on E-Bay
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 24, 2016, 08:15:56 AM
Quote from: Glitzer on February 23, 2016, 11:08:30 PM
Well there's always some SM players who will buy the box only because of the Deathwatch... I guess you can bet to find them on E-Bay

I wonder, I'm hearing a lot more people voice interest in the Genestealers then the marines. Then again LAF is not a bastion of hardcore spacemarine fans, I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 24, 2016, 08:38:43 AM
I think it's pretty simple...

One side in this box is a 20+ years out-of-print Oldhammer faction.  The other is "Turn it to 11" styled Space Marines, something we've been literally awash in (the only benefit here is apparently they represent characters from a book or game, so they have some notoriety for Space Marine collectors) for a decade or more.  I thoroughly imagine you'll see the Marines in droves on ebay after everyone picks up their copies.

I know numerous people planning on grabbing 2-3 boxes without any desire for the marines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on February 25, 2016, 09:28:55 AM
I do find it amazing that GW can put out hogwash that no one wants like Age of Sigmar then follow it up with an amazing quadruple whammy of Horus Heresy plastics, Starting Collecting! boxes, Genestealer Cult and the return of specialist games.

They might actually be financially capable as a company if they stopped doing dumb shit like AoS. They might actually start making profits year on year.

A bit more on topic: I don't think anyone's gonna want the SM from the Deathwatch box, so I'll be talking to a few Han friends to get some Genestealer stuff. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 26, 2016, 08:07:13 AM
What if they only released AoS so that people would flock to the deathwatch box, boosting their sales in 40k and giving them an excuse to end the fantasy stuff altogether? Doubt they would, but still...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 27, 2016, 10:42:07 AM
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 27, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
Deathwatch Overkill is out for pre-order - yours for a mere £100 - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Deathwatch-Overkill-EN)

Too rich for my blood, even with a 20% discount. If the cultitsts turn up on their own at some point I'll get them, but there's no rush. It's not like I'm short of stuff to paint  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on February 27, 2016, 04:55:30 PM
Rule one when buying from Games Workshop, never buy from Games Workshop! Check cheaper options such as and there are more of them.

£80.00 - http://wargameterrain.blogspot.be/2016/02/wayland-games-cheap-warhammer-40k.html?m=1 (http://wargameterrain.blogspot.be/2016/02/wayland-games-cheap-warhammer-40k.html?m=1)

£79.99 - if you order this weekend you enter a raffle to win £50.00 http://wargameterrain.blogspot.be/2016/02/element-games-cheap-games-workshop.html?m=1 (http://wargameterrain.blogspot.be/2016/02/element-games-cheap-games-workshop.html?m=1)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 27, 2016, 05:56:41 PM
Zemjw: I guess I just wanted it that much. And as I've been saying, maybe selling off the marines will soften the blow a little.

Or at least, can you find someone who wants to go halfs?

Belgian: other forums have noted that Element priced it one penny below their free shipping threshold. lol No free shipping at Triple Helix, at any price, but at least their £75 + £6 shipping is comparable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on February 27, 2016, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: Vermis on February 27, 2016, 05:56:41 PM
Zemjw: I guess I just wanted it that much. And as I've been saying, maybe selling off the marines will soften the blow a little.

Or at least, can you find someone who wants to go halfs?

Belgian: other forums have noted that Element priced it one penny below their free shipping threshold. lol No free shipping at Triple Helix, at any price, but at least their £75 + £6 shipping is comparable.

Also noticed that they offered these at one penny below free shipping!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 27, 2016, 06:43:18 PM
So, buy the cheapest thing you can possibly buy + the game.  lol

One of our great retailers in the states, The Warstore offers flat-rate $6.95 shipping on all continental US orders.  That's probably the best we'll do (though lots of ebay shops like to provide free shipping).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 27, 2016, 08:15:22 PM
I shall be picking this up from work ,but i'll have to wait a while since we're currently backordered by about 100 copies!  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 27, 2016, 10:55:33 PM
Quote from: zemjw on February 27, 2016, 04:40:54 PM
Deathwatch Overkill is out for pre-order - yours for a mere £100 - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Deathwatch-Overkill-EN)

Too rich for my blood, even with a 20% discount. If the cultitsts turn up on their own at some point I'll get them, but there's no rush. It's not like I'm short of stuff to paint  ;D

All on Ebay already! One seller has some quite reasonably priced sets of the different cultists.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 28, 2016, 12:18:53 AM
Yep, eBay is flooded with stuff at the moment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on February 28, 2016, 06:11:08 AM
I've ordered two full sets of the cultists from eBay@AU$150 each. I think that's a pretty good price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 28, 2016, 12:57:19 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 28, 2016, 12:18:53 AM
Yep, eBay is flooded with stuff at the moment.

I think anyone hoping to sell on their unwanted marines to recoup some money is probably going to be stuck with them for now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on February 28, 2016, 04:28:23 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 28, 2016, 12:57:19 PM
I think anyone hoping to sell on their unwanted marines to recoup some money is probably going to be stuck with them for now.


Yyyup. lol :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on February 28, 2016, 04:55:21 PM
Oddly enough I like the marines and am planning to go half and half with a friend who wants the genestealer cult, everyones a winner haha  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 28, 2016, 06:50:50 PM
I just don't quite get the marine on the bike. The way the board is set up in one picture makes it look like space hulk (sort of, maybe a bit more open). So a big chunky space marine bike? Sure, Deathwing fluff etc...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 28, 2016, 07:31:49 PM
I won't lie...I think all of the marines look pretty crap... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 28, 2016, 08:59:30 PM
Quote from: beefcake on February 28, 2016, 06:50:50 PM
I just don't quite get the marine on the bike. The way the board is set up in one picture makes it look like space hulk (sort of, maybe a bit more open). So a big chunky space marine bike? Sure, Deathwing fluff etc...

Okay but hear me out...He has a hawk..a CYBER HAWK!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on February 29, 2016, 06:58:19 AM
Does anyone know if this a limited edition set? I'm hoping this game is still around for my birthday in May!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 29, 2016, 07:01:34 AM
Quote from: nic-e on February 28, 2016, 08:59:30 PM
Okay but hear me out...He has a hawk..a CYBER HAWK!
lol
Clearly that explains it  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on February 29, 2016, 07:55:58 AM
Quote from: beefcake on February 28, 2016, 06:50:50 PM
I just don't quite get the marine on the bike. The way the board is set up in one picture makes it look like space hulk (sort of, maybe a bit more open). So a big chunky space marine bike? Sure, Deathwing fluff etc...

Yes, I was wondering the same myself. You go battle some Xenos in tight corridors of a mining world or what ever, riding a motorbike  o_o Maybe they could have made a more fitting walker type instead but well, if it's in the official fluff... And it's a nice model for those, who might have a White Scar army in the works.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 29, 2016, 08:30:38 AM
And with the 40K rules included in a White Dwarf...a lot of folks may be picking up the set simply for 40K and ignoring the board game altogether.  I don't think the bike was the best choice, but they must be completing a novel collection (I haven't read the books relating to the Deathwatch - I assume this box covers a well known group?)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on February 29, 2016, 08:48:12 AM
From what I understand of it, this group was made (including a new novel) for this board game. I may be wrong.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 29, 2016, 05:57:39 PM
Ahhhh, okay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 29, 2016, 09:13:02 PM
Quote from: throwsFireball on February 29, 2016, 08:48:12 AM
From what I understand of it, this group was made (including a new novel) for this board game. I may be wrong.
This group of marines is based on the deathwatch novels from black library that have been out for a while.
So i think there probably is a scenario for the biker marine and he probably does have some special rules that make him useful .
Really tho, i think it's just that you can't have a white scar without his bike.

Quote from: beefcake on February 29, 2016, 07:01:34 AM
lol
Clearly that explains it  :)
There ya go, it really is that simple :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on February 29, 2016, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: throwsFireball on February 29, 2016, 08:48:12 AM
From what I understand of it, this group was made (including a new novel) for this board game. I may be wrong.

Quote from: nic-e on February 29, 2016, 09:13:02 PM
This group of marines is based on the deathwatch novels from black library that have been out for a while.
So i think there probably is a scenario for the biker marine and he probably does have some special rules that make him useful .
Really tho, i think it's just that you can't have a white scar without his bike.

And here I thought it was like the 80s cartoons made up to sell toys, except without the awesome cartoons..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on March 01, 2016, 07:05:22 PM
ISIS declares fatwa against Warhammer: Age of Sigmar (http://newsthump.com/2016/03/01/isis-declares-fatwa-against-warhammer-age-of-sigmar/)

Quote from: News Thump
ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has threatened a terrible vengeance after his 10,000 point Tomb King army was rendered obsolete by new Warhammer rules.

Al-Baghdadi announced that the Great Satan America and its lapdog Games Workshop had fallen to a new low, after learning he’s wasted the last six months painting a whole shitload of skeletons.

The specially designated global terrorist claimed the Tombs Kings matched his playing style perfectly, as he’s used to leading an army of mindless zombies motivated by nothing but hate, rage and the need for power.

His followers cheered as he spoke yesterday of ISIS overrunning the lands of The Empire and Albion and crushing their enemies underfoot before toppling the towers of Araby, but started to sound a bit less certain when he went on to speak of a great invasion of Naggaroth and Ulthuan.

“In the name of Allah, the Just, the Merciful, we shall hunt down the infidel dogs who not only came up with the word ‘Urroks’ but also charged me over forty quid for a Liche High Priest I can’t even play,” he said petulantly.

“We shall overrun their lands, their shops and their shipping warehouse and they shall reintroduce 5th edition because that was best.”

The terror organisation is accused of wooing impressionable teenagers by telling them they can still play Chaos Demons and have a 1,000 point advantage when the Caliphate rules the world.

Made me laugh. :')
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 01, 2016, 08:42:45 PM
Someone at news thump REALLY hates age of sigmar, because this is their third satirical articles about it ! That's alot of time dedicated to a fairly niche joke.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on March 04, 2016, 09:17:11 PM
Over here the Genestealer cult figs are going for about $75USD shipped on ebay with bases.  Moving pretty quickly too as it says $37 sold already!

Not a bad deal actually.  That's a smidge under $2 a fig.  A veritable bargain by GW standards!

Must...
...resist...
   ... going down another GW rabbit-hole...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 05, 2016, 02:40:13 AM
I'm happy to say I've no real interest in Genestealer cults, or I'd probably be all over this too...(sigh).  I hope they wait on Warhammer Quest etc...till I have funds.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 05, 2016, 08:36:47 PM
I come close to buying it for the genestealers but Mr sensible head returned and I managed to stop myself. :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on March 05, 2016, 11:11:25 PM
ebay is completely flooded with the figures if you are interested.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 05, 2016, 11:55:02 PM
I can't count how many we sold today. I don't think we had one customer who didn't buy it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on March 06, 2016, 05:36:18 PM
Anyone seen this:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/blood-bowl/warhammer-world-share-ace-blood-bowl-teams/

GW is once again putting the Bloodbowl rulebook for download.
Even bigger are the teams. Old fashioned kitbashing. Something I haven't seen GW do in a very long time.
The dark eldar to dark elf team is actually I have been planning for a while (already have the box).

This scores some points with me.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 06, 2016, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on March 06, 2016, 05:36:18 PM
Anyone seen this:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/blood-bowl/warhammer-world-share-ace-blood-bowl-teams/

GW is once again putting the Bloodbowl rulebook for download.
Even bigger are the teams. Old fashioned kitbashing. Something I haven't seen GW do in a very long time.
The dark eldar to dark elf team is actually I have been planning for a while (already have the box).

This scores some points with me.

I hadn't, and it IS refreshing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on March 06, 2016, 08:36:27 PM
Link for the rulebook, etc:
http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/the-bugmans-xxxxxx-league-cup/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 06, 2016, 08:41:18 PM
Blimey, that's impressive!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on March 06, 2016, 08:46:07 PM
Haven't seen if it's LR6 or something else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 06, 2016, 09:06:52 PM
Quote from: Nord on March 05, 2016, 11:11:25 PM
ebay is completely flooded with the figures if you are interested.
Yes I thought it would be,but Mr sensible head also  pointed out that I didn't really have storage either  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 12, 2016, 06:43:35 PM
News just in: GW fans get first new dragon in over 20 years. Howls of disgust heard as far as north pole.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2016/3/11/3948ddcb8d05942139b5dbacb0ea3cda_94383.png

My biggest beef with it is that it's obscured by all that irremovable(?) sigmarine armour. Otherwise it's pretty good, and refreshingly different for GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 12, 2016, 06:52:33 PM
The chaos dwarf team has bull centaurs although they look kit bashed from chaos horses. The tails are completely wrong. The teams do look cool though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 12, 2016, 06:55:13 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 12, 2016, 06:43:35 PM
News just in: GW fans get first new dragon in over 20 years. Howls of disgust heard as far as north pole.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2016/3/11/3948ddcb8d05942139b5dbacb0ea3cda_94383.png

My biggest beef with it is that it's obscured by all that irremovable(?) sigmarine armour. Otherwise it's pretty good, and refreshingly different for GW.
Wings also look to be attached mid torso?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 12, 2016, 09:36:14 PM
Looks okay...but this is irrelevant to me.  The AoS (while the rules have been well received) have been far and away the most expensive and over-the-top styled stuff I've seen from GW. This is odd since it clashes heavily with their cheaper, simpler moves in other areas.

It looks silly with armor, and will likely be $200 USD or something.  Don't care:Engaged.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on March 13, 2016, 02:34:58 AM
The armour makes it look like something out of Dino Riders.
Got my Genestealer cultists in the mail; they might be the most finely detailed plastics I've ever seen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 13, 2016, 11:30:50 AM
Does that dragon have a 'meh' aura? Because that's what I'm feeling right now. That's good about the genestealers, though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 13, 2016, 11:43:36 AM
 lol lol lol

That dragon!

 lol lol lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 13, 2016, 02:00:01 PM
I know it's daft to take opinions about a model personally, and I wish people would grow thicker skins, meself. But it gets fairly frustrating when people ridicule a thing without giving any reason for it.

I think this is one of the best dragons GW has produced in years. Not the best evar, but one of the best by GW. I agree that the armour doesn't look great, but underneath it is something sculpted by the guy who sculpted the plastic carnosaur (http://i.imgur.com/yk6aD6q.jpg) - someone who knows what he's doing. I'm waiting to see the sprues, see how much of the armour is moulded on and what are separate pieces. I'm pretty sure those leg pieces can be left off, at least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on March 13, 2016, 03:45:53 PM
Quote from: Vermis on March 13, 2016, 02:00:01 PM
I know it's daft to take opinions about a model personally, and I wish people would grow thicker skins, meself. But it gets fairly frustrating when people ridicule a thing without giving any reason for it.

I think this is one of the best dragons GW has produced in years. Not the best evar, but one of the best by GW. I agree that the armour doesn't look great, but underneath it is something sculpted by the guy who sculpted the plastic carnosaur (http://i.imgur.com/yk6aD6q.jpg) - someone who knows what he's doing. I'm waiting to see the sprues, see how much of the armour is moulded on and what are separate pieces. I'm pretty sure those leg pieces can be left off, at least.

Just because the sculptor is great, doesn't mean the concept is not stupid.

I mean, look at obliterators and mutilators. Objectively great and well-done sculpts, but they just look dumb as a sack of bricks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 13, 2016, 11:07:18 PM
If it wasn't for the wings between the legs i'd pick it up and convert it,but i can't help but imagine it flying with its front abd bag sagging in the air like a big heavy bumbling daddy long legs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on March 14, 2016, 03:30:04 AM
Quote from: Vermis on March 13, 2016, 02:00:01 PM
I know it's daft to take opinions about a model personally, and I wish people would grow thicker skins, meself. But it gets fairly frustrating when people ridicule a thing without giving any reason for it.

I think this is one of the best dragons GW has produced in years. Not the best evar, but one of the best by GW. I agree that the armour doesn't look great, but underneath it is something sculpted by the guy who sculpted the plastic carnosaur (http://i.imgur.com/yk6aD6q.jpg) - someone who knows what he's doing. I'm waiting to see the sprues, see how much of the armour is moulded on and what are separate pieces. I'm pretty sure those leg pieces can be left off, at least.


For me, it's just the umpteenth example of GW figures looking more and more like Rescue Heroes:

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/48/ae/02/48ae02731ee328047c5d9f51d7488696.jpg)

 ;) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 14, 2016, 11:23:38 AM
Are those from the necromunda rerelease?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 14, 2016, 11:45:24 AM
Quote from: Vermis on March 13, 2016, 02:00:01 PM
I know it's daft to take opinions about a model personally, and I wish people would grow thicker skins, meself. But it gets fairly frustrating when people ridicule a thing without giving any reason for it.

I think this is one of the best dragons GW has produced in years. Not the best evar, but one of the best by GW. I agree that the armour doesn't look great, but underneath it is something sculpted by the guy who sculpted the plastic carnosaur (http://i.imgur.com/yk6aD6q.jpg) - someone who knows what he's doing. I'm waiting to see the sprues, see how much of the armour is moulded on and what are separate pieces. I'm pretty sure those leg pieces can be left off, at least.

I am not knocking the sculpting, mate.
There may well be a really nice beastie underneath.
It just looks damn ridiculous in that armour.

To me it looks like a chap that has fallen asleep drunk and his mates have dressed it up in a ludicrous outfit to take pictures of him.
Look at that expression on his face.
He looks well miffed at what they have done to him.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on March 14, 2016, 01:48:35 PM
Quote from: Mason on March 14, 2016, 11:45:24 AM
I am not knocking the sculpting, mate.
There may well be a really nice beastie underneath.
It just looks damn ridiculous in that armour.

To me it looks like a chap that has fallen asleep drunk and his mates have dressed it up in a ludicrous outfit to take pictures of him.
Look at that expression on his face.
He looks well miffed at what they have done to him.



I'd add that those lizard cavalry give no impression of being able to move fast, or having much of a range of motion with their necks/heads.  They're too wide and boxy, it just looks awkward.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 14, 2016, 08:33:13 PM
My one general complaint about that whole army is that the lizardy dragon things look HUGELY muscular...and as mentioned, not lithe, fast or sleek.  Look at the heft of the main dragon - questionable its wings could even lift the darn thing!  lol  I know it's pretty much necessary to match the bulk of the sigmarines, but it really does make them look rather...stupid.

Surely the armor on that dragon is removable.  If not, I think GW is stabbing themselves in the bum because a lot of folks would pick it up simply for being a dragon sculpt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 15, 2016, 11:00:33 AM
There's not much about the dragon that I like. It just doesn't look like a thing I'd want to paint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 15, 2016, 01:32:00 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 14, 2016, 08:33:13 PM
Surely the armor on that dragon is removable.  If not, I think GW is stabbing themselves in the bum because a lot of folks would pick it up simply for being a dragon sculpt.

I would suspect that it is not and it would not be the first time that GW screwed themselves out of sales like this. They could have sold a lot of medieval themed terrain sets if they had just made the skulls and gothic additions optional. Ditto with their 40K terrain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 16, 2016, 07:43:05 PM
http://gavthorpe.co.uk/2016/03/06/warbeast-authors-notes/

Some insight into Age of Sigmar from Gav Thorpe. Like most, I can't really say I agree with his rather enthusiastic take, but it's worth looking at just to read his replies to the comments.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on March 16, 2016, 10:34:43 PM
Interesting reading the comments. This one sums up my feelings about Age of Sigmar far more eloquently than I could:

Quote
We all know that a company like GW, bound by the expectations of shareholders, requires a constant flow of young-blood. It is only by acquiring a larger share of the adolescent demographic that GW can demonstrate growth in each financial report, and ensure continued investment.

However, the bigwigs seem to not understand how to win this elusive demographic. They seem to think that today’s kids want to be treated like kids, with patronisingly simple rules and stories filled with “Power level over 9000!” kinda stuff.

The reality is, no one wants to be treated like a kid, least of all kids. In fact, the higher the age requirement, the greater the appeal. Thus, a maturer take on a fantasy world, with complex human problems, political machinations, and a sense of historicity (like, say, ASOIAF), would be more marketable to today’s young. It would also be easier to envision oneself in such a world (because of its grounding in reality), and provide a neater context for tabletop battles.

As it stands, AoS seems a mess. As you mentioned, this may just be because it is nascent, but the fact remains, it doesn’t do the integral job of wanting me to know what happens next. So it doesn’t matter if the setting improves, because by then, no one will be reading.

The Warhammer world has been destroyed, and now the plot consists of various groups of nebulous figures floating around in spheres, in a universe that no longer has any structure or rules. Everyone we might have cared about is dead or acting completely out of character (or both, because death doesn’t even seem to matter any more). Implausibility is heaped upon implausibility, and attributed to “magic”. Thus, the grounding in a tangible world, with tangible politics and tangible human conflicts, has gone, and in its place is a strange fusion of sales brochure and cartoon surrealism. Even the names for things have been changed into self-parodies. (How the hell do you pronounce Aelves? What’s the difference between a Skullblood Berserker and a Bloodskull Berserker? Why is there no “i” in Fyreslayers? Are they trying to promote teamwork?).

I’m not being negative for negativity’s sake. I actually want to like the new lore. I want to be able to immerse myself in this new world as I did the previous one. And truthfully, honestly, genuinely, I cannot find anything positive about the new setting as it stands (which I concede may say more about me).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 17, 2016, 01:47:02 AM
"For example, the Stormcast Eternals. Even when I had been working in the Design Studio the idea of being able to translate the appeal of Space Marines into the fantasy setting had been something of an ambition, if not a specific objective. (Ironic considering Space Marines were partly created to capture some of the appeal that Chaos Warriors had in Warhammer Fantasy Battles at that time!)"

I think this might settle any disputes as to which aestethics were aimed for...   ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 17, 2016, 02:52:06 AM
So essentially the sigmarines are based on Chaos warriors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 17, 2016, 03:21:22 AM
Quote from: beefcake on March 17, 2016, 02:52:06 AM
So essentially the sigmarines are based on Chaos warriors.

Yeah, big, burly, blood lusting humans with huge shoulder pads and a menacing pose. Seems to fit the bill.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on March 18, 2016, 07:03:52 PM
Quote from: beefcake on March 17, 2016, 02:52:06 AM
So essentially the sigmarines are based on Chaos warriors.

If only that were the case.  The Chaos warriors (even the newer incarnations) are an order of magnitude less ridiculous than Sigmarines.  If they were based on Chaos Warriors they might be tolerable.

Unfortunately it's pretty clear that Sigmarines are based on Space Marines and all the ridiculousness that smashing them (and their bulky powered armor) into a fantasy setting entails.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: affun on March 18, 2016, 10:41:42 PM
Quote from: Argonor on March 17, 2016, 01:47:02 AM
"For example, the Stormcast Eternals. Even when I had been working in the Design Studio the idea of being able to translate the appeal of Space Marines into the fantasy setting had been something of an ambition, if not a specific objective. (Ironic considering Space Marines were partly created to capture some of the appeal that Chaos Warriors had in Warhammer Fantasy Battles at that time!)"

I think this might settle any disputes as to which aesthetics were aimed for...   ::)

I find this really saying of how clueless the design studio actually is. Translating Space Marines into a fantasy setting should start with looking at the mythological and cultural origins of where the trope space marine actually comes from.
As I see it; space marines are sci-fi knights or samurai. Warriors dedicated to their trade, to the exclusion of all else. Born and bred for battle. Why then, are the sigmarines based on space marines. and not instead the original source of the trope.
Admittedly they have somewhat greek ques in their design, which could be argued harkens back to old Spartan ideas, though Id argue that the over-all look is more roman, which again makes sense when you consider the popular cultural view on the roman war machine.

Honestly, I can just think of so many so much more interesting design avenues than what they went with, but then again I can also clearly see the logic of their design choices. The difference between the two being that I am not impressed by the stylistic choice, but rather find it crude and obvious.

***

Of course, in writing this, I have become part of the gripe-machine.I guess I just wanted to try and put words to how baffling I find the stormcasts. The latest cavalry is truly heinous to me, yet I see people lapping it up and praising them as cool. Too each their on taste, and if people find you in them, then more power to them. Its just that I do not see it. The design-aesthetic is so completely alien to all that I like that my only reaction can be rejection.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 19, 2016, 12:54:45 AM
Quote from: affun on March 18, 2016, 10:41:42 PM
The design-aesthetic is so completely alien to all that I like that my only reaction can be rejection.

I guess, you're too young to remember Masters of the Universe, then..?  ;)  lol

The Stormcast very profoundly Draw on the same greek/roman inspiration that was used for some of the elite Blood Angels. Some of the designs are more or less just exaggerated versions of the same sculpts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: affun on March 19, 2016, 08:32:51 AM
Quote from: Argonor on March 19, 2016, 12:54:45 AM
I guess, you're too young to remember Masters of the Universe, then..?  ;)  lol

The Stormcast very profoundly Draw on the same greek/roman inspiration that was used for some of the elite Blood Angels. Some of the designs are more or less just exaggerated versions of the same sculpts.

True true.
It's just that they also take themselves so damn serious!

Sidenote: I am too young to remember it, but MotU will always have a place in my heart  :D
(http://www.madman.com.au/wallpapers/he-man_and_the_masters_of_177_1024.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 20, 2016, 01:59:20 AM
Quote from: eilif on March 18, 2016, 07:03:52 PM
If only that were the case.  The Chaos warriors (even the newer incarnations) are an order of magnitude less ridiculous than Sigmarines.  If they were based on Chaos Warriors they might be tolerable.

Unfortunately it's pretty clear that Sigmarines are based on Space Marines and all the ridiculousness that smashing them (and their bulky powered armor) into a fantasy setting entails.

Argonor's quote saying Sigmarines, based on Space marines based upon Chaos warriors. I just left out the middle bit.
I actually prefer the sigmarines to chaos warriors myself. Less spikez and skullz.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 20, 2016, 01:57:34 PM
Latest rumor is that lost patrol is being re released with scouts and geanstealers , and that for the 30th space marine anniversary we may be getting an updated copy of the original RT marine box.

I almost feel like age of sigmar, although i don't hate it, was kirby's attempt to spoil the work of the incoming CEO who he knew would be more popular than him.


Also, GW are officially back on facebook with the warhammer age of sigmar facebook page, answering fan questions and giving out info on the upcoming organised play events.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 20, 2016, 05:14:45 PM
Regardless of peoples' opinions of AoS, I think the one thing that remains a fact is that Warhammer Fantasy was a failing non-profitable product line.

With a couple thousand SKUs and poor sales, they were always going to do something.  While I personally don't find AoS intriguing and I do find the models hideous and gut-wrenchingly expensive, the reality is that Warhammer Fantasy was going to be turned off or wildly re-envisioned somehow.

It does beg the question - what other options did they consider?  For the people decrying the disappearance of Warhammer Fantasy, we have to ask the question - what solutions did the fanzone have?

I'm not asking this in a mean spirited way, but what routes could GW have gone to save the Warhammer Fantasy line?  The only thing I could imagine would be a heavy reduction in figures, and the dissolving of a couple of races - minimize the SKU and release an equally radical 9th edition fantasy which changed the way the game was played.  Even then, a bunch of players would still have been out of luck.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 20, 2016, 06:18:51 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 20, 2016, 05:14:45 PM
It does beg the question - what other options did they consider?  For the people decrying the disappearance of Warhammer Fantasy, we have to ask the question - what solutions did the fanzone have?

Leave it alone. Don't blow it up. Have all rulesets available to purchase at a nominal price in PDF version. Keep only minimal stocks in store and have the rest as only available in the webstore. They don't have to keep updating rules and miniatures because there will always be a trickle of sales going through. It may not be massively profitable, but neither will it be loss-making because the investment into it will be negligible.

It didn't need poking at, everyone had their own favourite version of the rules and their favourite age of miniatures and GW could have tapped into that. They didn't even need to keep a load of stock in storage, they could just cast to order (when orders reach a viable number that is, not individually) as some companies do.

Alternatively, they could have flogged the licence for the mins to another company to take care of for them. I'm sure plenty of people would have lined up to bite their hand off. Foundry already do a load of their OOP models.

The fact that so many sites and FB pages have appeared, dealing in OOP GW models, games and rulesets, highlights the sort of market that could have been tapped.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on March 20, 2016, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 20, 2016, 05:14:45 PM
It does beg the question - what other options did they consider?  For the people decrying the disappearance of Warhammer Fantasy, we have to ask the question - what solutions did the fanzone have?

Leave the Old World intact, but refocus on it's gritty darkness, the threats in the cracks between civilized society, get it edgy and threatening again. Actually use the decades of background and depth the setting has accumulated. Downscale the rules from pushing blocks of infantry and monsters around to a (middling to large) skirmish level. Tap in to the popularity and market of fantasy skirmish games like Frostgrave, Lion/Dragon Rampant, et al. In other words, do those things that made Mordheim a hit, but expand across the entire setting.
Make standalone boardgames like Betrayal at Calth and Deathwatch Killteam for Fantasy (Re-use the Warhammer Quest brand, perhaps?). Use existing sprues, so it doesn't add too much to expenses.  Back up your claim of being a company that makes collector's figures and re-release some of the classic sculpts in small sets to leech off the Oldhammer market. And/or maybe accept that most of the Warhammer Fantasy cash will come from licencing (Mainly FFG and digital), but keep the range around as direct only for tie-in sales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on March 20, 2016, 07:05:15 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 20, 2016, 05:14:45 PM
Regardless of peoples' opinions of AoS, I think the one thing that remains a fact is that Warhammer Fantasy was a failing non-profitable product line.

By their own making. This often gets said as some way to justify why they killed it off officially, but the truth is they strangled it themselves years ago when they upped the model requirements whilst simultaneously at least doubling the price of all core infantry. No wonder people gave up and looked elsewhere! I know I did, and I'm a super Old World fanboy!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 20, 2016, 08:53:14 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 20, 2016, 06:18:51 PM
Leave it alone. Don't blow it up. 

But that wasn't selling product at the levels they wanted so its not really an option that they would take.

Quote from: Modhail on March 20, 2016, 06:51:31 PM
Leave the Old World intact, but refocus on it's gritty darkness, the threats in the cracks between civilized society, get it edgy and threatening again.

They certainly did do that in their RPG products but I don't know how successful it would have been in a mass-combat game. Those sorts of things tend to be what you read in the fluff but not see on the table.

Quote from: Modhail on March 20, 2016, 06:51:31 PM
Downscale the rules from pushing blocks of infantry and monsters around to a (middling to large) skirmish level.

I think this would have been an interesting idea but don't forget that they want to be selling 40K levels of models. Making a game with smaller model requirements only works if the market for it explodes.

Quote from: Modhail on March 20, 2016, 06:51:31 PM
Tap in to the popularity and market of fantasy skirmish games like Frostgrave, Lion/Dragon Rampant, et al. In other words, do those things that made Mordheim a hit, but expand across the entire setting.

Those games work, I think, because they allow you to use minis from any company and they are good games. GW is not a company known for the quality of their rules.

Quote from: Modhail on March 20, 2016, 06:51:31 PM
Make standalone boardgames like Betrayal at Calth and Deathwatch Killteam for Fantasy (Re-use the Warhammer Quest brand, perhaps?).

I view those "games" as a way for GW to make even more money selling sets of minis. I don't understand them in any way other than a fake value-added with highly desirable figures which makes them large sums of cash. Execution Force was okay, Betrayal at Calth was garbage and I didn't even bother looking at the rules for Deathwatch. No-one outside of GW fans is going to drop the type of cash for those "games".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 20, 2016, 09:00:29 PM
Beaky marine set,hmmm :-* I think that would sell very well! Hell depending on what it's like I could be tempted,
Though if they try cramming too much detail on them ,I wouldn't bother.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 20, 2016, 09:02:46 PM
Quote from: Gibby on March 20, 2016, 07:05:15 PM
By their own making. This often gets said as some way to justify why they killed it off officially, but the truth is they strangled it themselves years ago when they upped the model requirements whilst simultaneously at least doubling the price of all core infantry. No wonder people gave up and looked elsewhere! I know I did, and I'm a super Old World fanboy!

I think that the miniature market in general is moving away from mass-combat games and that Warhammer Fantasy was stuck no matter the changes. All of the really popular games these days have small model counts and we're even seeing professional skirmish games come out for Napoleonic and other historical periods.

Bolt Action sells at our store but outside a few old-timers, games like Black Powder, Hail Caesar and other just sit on the shelf. The last large sale of Napoleonic figures was for a group playing Songs of Drums and Shakos.

This is not a market that GW wants to be in. If they were happy with small but profitable sales then they never would have canned Specialist Games and their Black Industries RPG line.

AoS seems to be a perfect example of a lost cause. It can't radically change without pissing off its existing fan-base and the market seems to have gone somewhere that GW doesn't want to go.

My main issue with the game is that the background makes no sense for new players. Without reference to its existing setting you can't explain it to a new player and the game size is still far too large for most new players to get involved with.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on March 20, 2016, 09:06:16 PM
The funniest part of this whole fiasco is that Total War Warhammer (still irritated it's not called Total Warhammer) is coming out. When Dawn of War came out, 40k got a HUGE sales boost. And I mean that I think GW pretty much doubled their 40k take that year or something similarly silly.

Also, Warhammer Fantasy made up about 30% of GW's revenue stream. What that turns into in terms of profit, I don't know. It's certainly more than Age of Sigmar is making, though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. Peabody on March 20, 2016, 09:11:29 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 20, 2016, 09:02:46 PM
My main issue with the game is that the background makes no sense for new players. Without reference to its existing setting you can't explain it to a new player and the game size is still far too large for most new players to get involved with.

That's spot on!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 20, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
Quote from: throwsFireball on March 20, 2016, 09:06:16 PM
The funniest part of this whole fiasco is that Total War Warhammer (still irritated it's not called Total Warhammer) is coming out. When Dawn of War came out, 40k got a HUGE sales boost. And I mean that I think GW pretty much doubled their 40k take that year or something similarly silly.

They certainly got a revenue boost from their part of the profits of those games but I don't ever recall a store talking about doubling 40K sales.

Quote from: throwsFireball on March 20, 2016, 09:06:16 PM
Also, Warhammer Fantasy made up about 30% of GW's revenue stream. What that turns into in terms of profit, I don't know. It's certainly more than Age of Sigmar is making, though.

GW has, AFAIK, never split their sales off by individual lines. The best estimates that I have seen of current Fantasy v. 40K sales is that they are about 10% of their 40K sales. That certainly is in line with what we experience at our store and what I have heard from other retailers.

I doubt that we'll ever see any specific sales data from GW unless its to crow about increased sales. I doubt that their sales are even at their previous levels though. Any sales bump from Total War Warhammer would not really make a significant difference.

Besides, if I can play a huge mass-combat game on my PC why would I want to spend months and 1000's of dollars to attempt to duplicate that experience on the tabletop?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 20, 2016, 09:37:15 PM
I just don't see any way out of it for GW.  Regardless of how much people would have liked to see it stay around, and regardless of whose fault it was - it was bad business to keep the line running as it was.  I wonder if people would have accepted a 35% downsize in the line of kits if that had been an option instead.  Just cull a couple of races and kill off random units which don't sell.

I would have preferred to see a Warhammer Warband style game or something, but they went the opposite route.  It looks like they went straight to the 40K style of stuff (huge and insanely expensive miniatures).  I'm curious if it will work.  I don't think it will, despite a lot of people saying AoS is fun to play.  I just don't think the world has anywhere near the fan draw that 40K does/did.

Sadly all this means is that I'm concerned about a re-release of Warhammer Quest (how do you do that if the world doesn't exist anymore?).  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on March 20, 2016, 09:51:28 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 20, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
They certainly got a revenue boost from their part of the profits of those games but I don't ever recall a store talking about doubling 40K sales.

I definitely remember it being somewhere in one of their financials.

At the very least, their stocks increased from 600~ to 800~ after the release of Dawn of War... And then promptly crashed down to 400 the next year because of some fuck up or another.

Quote from: pixelgeek on March 20, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
GW has, AFAIK, never split their sales off by individual lines. The best estimates that I have seen of current Fantasy v. 40K sales is that they are about 10% of their 40K sales. That certainly is in line with what we experience at our store and what I have heard from other retailers.

I doubt that we'll ever see any specific sales data from GW unless its to crow about increased sales. I doubt that their sales are even at their previous levels though. Any sales bump from Total War Warhammer would not really make a significant difference.

See above. Also, who plays fantasy and 40k used to vary greatly depending on geographic region. Some areas had a lot more fantasy and some a lot more 40k. The area near me had quite a few fantasy players who just ended up quitting GW altogether.

Quote from: pixelgeek on March 20, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
Besides, if I can play a huge mass-combat game on my PC why would I want to spend months and 1000's of dollars to attempt to duplicate that experience on the tabletop?

It's a very different experience.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 20, 2016, 11:03:11 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 20, 2016, 08:53:14 PM
But that wasn't selling product at the levels they wanted so its not really an option that they would take.

I think that's the real issue isn't it? There's what the customers want, there's what is a sound business decision, and there's what GW want. I think the it's always sound business to give customers what they want whenever possible. If you're trying to work to a model that is unpopular with your market, you're probably not working to a good model.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 20, 2016, 11:42:49 PM
The counter to that is occasionally what customers want...is terrible business.  lol  You can't win them all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on March 21, 2016, 01:26:21 AM
Quote from: throwsFireball on March 20, 2016, 09:51:28 PM
See above. Also, who plays fantasy and 40k used to vary greatly depending on geographic region. Some areas had a lot more fantasy and some a lot more 40k. The area near me had quite a few fantasy players who just ended up quitting GW altogether.

I was always under the impression that the UK/Europe liked Fantasy much more than the US market, because our culture/history doesn't go back to the Middle Ages and is much more closely associated with guns.  That could be complete BS, but I know I heard it somewhere.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 21, 2016, 01:33:27 AM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on March 21, 2016, 01:26:21 AM
I was always under the impression that the UK/Europe liked Fantasy much more than the US market, because our culture/history doesn't go back to the Middle Ages and is much more closely associated with guns.  That could be complete BS, but I know I heard it somewhere.  :)

I suppose on a cultural level it is a little easier for us to insert ourselves into the fiction here in the uk, not just historically, but also due to all the references to then contemporary Britain that got chucked into warhammer during its early period.
 
this may also be why i see more american AoS players online than uk ones, as the type of fantasy being presented is a more contemporary warcraft style that can be related to without much cultural context to read into.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on March 21, 2016, 03:58:26 AM
Quote from: nic-e on March 21, 2016, 01:33:27 AM
I suppose on a cultural level it is a little easier for us to insert ourselves into the fiction here in the uk, not just historically, but also due to all the references to then contemporary Britain that got chucked into warhammer during its early period.
 
this may also be why i see more american AoS players online than uk ones, as the type of fantasy being presented is a more contemporary warcraft style that can be related to without much cultural context to read into.

I could see that definitely, although just about every design decision they've made with AOS is on that doesn't appeal to me.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 22, 2016, 11:05:23 PM
Well, GW not only got themselves back on facebook, but they were at a con this weekend and not only did they show off the new lost patrol game and bloodbowl box but they gave an actual interview and an unboxing about lost patrol! It's gonna be about $60/£40 , and looks pretty nifty.

Slowly, surely, it seems the filth of Kirby is washing away.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 22, 2016, 11:43:51 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 22, 2016, 11:05:23 PM
Well, GW not only got themselves back on facebook, but they were at a con this weekend and not only did they show off the new lost patrol game and bloodbowl box but they gave an actual interview and an unboxing about lost patrol! It's gonna be about $60/£40 , and looks pretty nifty.

Slowly, surely, it seems the filth of Kirby is washing away.

Link?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 22, 2016, 11:55:14 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 22, 2016, 11:43:51 PM
Link?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/03/40k-lost-patrol-unboxed-video-blood-bowl-box.html

There ya go!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on March 23, 2016, 04:50:01 AM
They were at Salt Lake Comic Con in September of last year promoting the hell out of AoS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 23, 2016, 12:50:57 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 22, 2016, 11:55:14 PM
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/03/40k-lost-patrol-unboxed-video-blood-bowl-box.html

There ya go!

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 23, 2016, 05:38:55 PM
Looks like they finally got around to squatting the Bretonnian line - most of it is no longer available and sold out.  :(

I did manage to order some questing knights, as I always wanted some of those...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 23, 2016, 06:10:01 PM
Quote from: Timbor on March 23, 2016, 05:38:55 PM
Looks like they finally got around to squatting the Bretonnian line - most of it is no longer available and sold out.  :(

I did manage to order some questing knights, as I always wanted some of those...
Khemri too, they sold off the stock it seems. I had to get a war sphinx....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 23, 2016, 06:48:20 PM
Never liked how they split the undead into two separate lines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 23, 2016, 07:26:27 PM
Quote from: Timbor on March 23, 2016, 05:38:55 PM
Looks like they finally got around to squatting the Bretonnian line - most of it is no longer available and sold out.  :(

I did manage to order some questing knights, as I always wanted some of those...

I've always wantedthe men at arms but never got round to getting them, and you know what, i can live with it,because i know i'd never actually get round to painting them. But still, I feel a little sad to know i don't ave the option now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 23, 2016, 07:30:11 PM
Well, the men at arms should not be hard at all to find on the second hand market... its the cooler stuff like the questing knights and trebuchets which are harder to find!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on March 23, 2016, 11:22:05 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on March 23, 2016, 06:10:01 PM
Khemri too, they sold off the stock it seems. I had to get a war sphinx....

Wanted a sphinx myself, just missed out on them on the US store. Found one on b-town for under retail so pretty happy with that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fastolfrus on March 23, 2016, 11:31:44 PM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on March 21, 2016, 01:26:21 AM
I was always under the impression that the UK/Europe liked Fantasy much more than the US market, because our culture/history doesn't go back to the Middle Ages and is much more closely associated with guns.  That could be complete BS, but I know I heard it somewhere.  :)

At a meeting at GW head office a few years back we were told that Fantasy sold better in Europe than in UK & global markets, but 40K sold better in UK & US markets. One of the GW staff wondered if it might be because most Europeans were uncomfortable with the 40K setting of a totalitarian empire ruling over everyone, (and possibly the eagles & skulls all over the place) but fantasy fitted in with folklore & mythology. The general consensus was that the fantasy side of things was only kept going to keep a European market presence.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on March 24, 2016, 02:41:40 AM
Quote from: fastolfrus on March 23, 2016, 11:31:44 PM
At a meeting at GW head office a few years back we were told that Fantasy sold better in Europe than in UK & global markets, but 40K sold better in UK & US markets. One of the GW staff wondered if it might be because most Europeans were uncomfortable with the 40K setting of a totalitarian empire ruling over everyone, (and possibly the eagles & skulls all over the place) but fantasy fitted in with folklore & mythology. The general consensus was that the fantasy side of things was only kept going to keep a European market presence.

It does seem like many of the newer, smaller Fantasy game systems are more popular in Europe than over here. Didn't even think of the Lebensraum angle.  :o  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 24, 2016, 06:01:36 AM
Quote from: beefcake on March 23, 2016, 06:48:20 PM
Never liked how they split the undead into two separate lines.
Mine aren't, and I have a mish mash ranging from Transylvania to Khemri with an undead menagerie including dogs, a rhino, an elephant and a dinosaur.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Humorous_Conclusion on March 24, 2016, 04:29:55 PM
Quote from: Timbor on March 23, 2016, 05:38:55 PM
Looks like they finally got around to squatting the Bretonnian line - most of it is no longer available and sold out.  :(

That's interesting, because none of it ever made it into the "Last Chance to Buy" section of the website.

That would suggest that either that section is being largely dropped just after it got started, or a good part of the Bretonnian line is likely to reappear re-packaged and re-based. GW have done this quite a bit recently. "Sold Out" sometimes means, "sold out in this box, about to be re-boxed".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 24, 2016, 05:37:31 PM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on March 24, 2016, 02:41:40 AM
It does seem like many of the newer, smaller Fantasy game systems are more popular in Europe than over here. Didn't even think of the Lebensraum angle.  :o  :(

Well, as I recall, the Nottingham HQ is referred to by locals as "The Reichstag."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 24, 2016, 07:26:08 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on March 24, 2016, 05:37:31 PM
Well, as I recall, the Nottingham HQ is referred to by locals as "The Reichstag."

The humongous imperial eagle can't have helped.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 24, 2016, 08:43:50 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on March 24, 2016, 05:37:31 PM
Well, as I recall, the Nottingham HQ is referred to by locals as "The Reichstag."

It is indeed. It makes it bloody easy to get a taxi there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 26, 2016, 12:08:15 AM
A good 8 pages of fantasy items from the bret, empire, dwarf, and the 3 elf ranges have been put up on 'last chance to buy'... big changes on that front.

And here I was hoping that they would continue to make the empire knights kit for another 20 years...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 26, 2016, 12:40:18 AM
Quote from: Timbor on March 26, 2016, 12:08:15 AM
A good 8 pages of fantasy items from the bret, empire, dwarf, and the 3 elf ranges have been put up on 'last chance to buy'... big changes on that front.

And here I was hoping that they would continue to make the empire knights kit for another 20 years...  lol

sigh...
Now there are so many figures i want, can't afford and have no immediate use for, but will no doubt be hunting down on some virtual reality version of ebay in 20 years time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 26, 2016, 12:51:45 AM
I know what you mean! I was thinking I should order the sisters of Twilight WE dragon and orion, but then I remembered that I still have the 4th ed wood elf dragon, and I have the OGAM Cerunnos models, which would serve the same purpose if/when I get around to painting them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 26, 2016, 01:56:17 AM
Wow, that's a lot of core stuff being done away with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 26, 2016, 06:19:32 AM
Quote from: Timbor on March 26, 2016, 12:08:15 AM
And here I was hoping that they would continue to make the empire knights kit for another 20 years...  lol
That could be the biggest loss of the WH world - dumping the empire was not a good idea.  :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 26, 2016, 09:34:36 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on March 26, 2016, 06:19:32 AM
That could be the biggest loss of the WH world - dumping the empire was not a good idea.  :-[

There are some empire bits and bobs in the normal purchase section, but they'll probably be redone as freeples or whatever they're calling it. Dang, I wouldn't mind the dwarf adventurers though...why must I have no money?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on March 26, 2016, 09:37:21 AM
The whole Empire range is intact, what are you talking about? The knights have gone, but all the foot troops and the other cavalry and the machines and characters are still there. New knights in the future maybe?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 26, 2016, 09:40:19 AM
Free company are going, along with valten, a warrior priest, Marius Lietdorf, Balthazar Gelt and some captains. Oh, and that Markus character that I never really liked. Most of it's still there, but not all of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on March 26, 2016, 09:54:04 AM
Looks like you have survived.  ;)

Empire is the third largest of the Order ranges, so there's no reason to believe they are being squatted - or should we say Bretted?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 26, 2016, 10:02:57 AM
Quote from: Nord on March 26, 2016, 09:54:04 AM
Looks like you have survived.  ;)

Empire is the third largest of the Order ranges, so there's no reason to believe they are being squatted - or should we say Bretted?
But the concept of the Empire as such is lost - it's not just the models in isolation, it's the background which they just scrunched up (almost literally!) and threw away. I hate to admit it, but the Empire was what got me to read up about central Europe in the 15th-17th century for the first time after secondaery school, some years - ulp, decades! - ago.

On another note - a £10.00 note, in fact - I went through the entire 8 or 9 pages of to be discontinued stuff, and found one item which warranted purchase, the set of 4 metal drunken dwarves, which I always liked but had never bought. £10.75, not cheap but reasonable enough, until I saw the shipping to Malta: ten quid for four small sozzled gents!  :o I've had AFVs with troops delivered from the UK for less. I guess it's a binning method for grouping everything up to x kg in a category, probably to make one want to buy more to at least get more for the postage cost. Not working this time. I'll get some Guinness and do the drinking bit myself instead...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on March 26, 2016, 10:08:29 AM
So all the previous copies of the rules/background have been destroyed too, preventing you from playing in the setting of your choosing? I did not realise GW's evil grip was so powerful.

There's always Total Warhammer, not long to wait now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 26, 2016, 10:46:43 AM
Quote from: Nord on March 26, 2016, 10:08:29 AM
So all the previous copies of the rules/background have been destroyed too, preventing you from playing in the setting of your choosing? I did not realise GW's evil grip was so powerful.

There's always Total Warhammer, not long to wait now.

No, that's not what I meant - I have a pile of empire stuff, and all the rules I want - and army books with background.
What I was trying to express - inadequately, I guess - is that it's a shame GW gave that up, I think it was an asset to the company and  to the hobby: the Empire, some of the human Dogs of War and Bretonnians are the closest to historical troops, and some of them could stand in for historical models at a pinch and if you're ok with cinematic representation of historical troop as opposed to accurate, and can lead to a different aspect of the hobby.

Whatever GW is and does, I owe it to them to get into gaming and have no regrets about that. I loved some of their work; and I still can feel sad when they throw away something which has value. I accept that WH was not making money, but I can't help feeling that better solutions could have been found. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on March 26, 2016, 12:36:49 PM
But....they have not given up on the Empire, it's still there, third largest faction, etc. Their range has suffered far less than others - knights and militia gone, plus a handful of characters. Everything else is still there. I'm not happy about what they did to WHFB, but it's still there, got loads of toys I can use, looking forward to Total Warhammer.

To be honest, there is so much historical around that can be picked up cheap - Perry, Fireforge, etc that I dont really see the retirement of these couple of boxes and a handful of characters of that much of a catastrophe. And if you are a fan of metals, then there's dozens of other companies you can buy from.

Chin up, it's not the end of the worlde. Oh wait...... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 26, 2016, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Nord on March 26, 2016, 12:36:49 PM

Chin up, it's not the end of the worlde. Oh wait...... ;)
I see what you did there  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on March 27, 2016, 10:16:30 AM
Here's something to cheer you up (or maybe depress you further), some lovely brushwork on the older Empire figures.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/395339 (http://www.coolminiornot.com/395339)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 27, 2016, 04:40:20 PM
Quote from: Nord on March 27, 2016, 10:16:30 AM
Here's something to cheer you up (or maybe depress you further), some lovely brushwork on the older Empire figures.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/395339 (http://www.coolminiornot.com/395339)
Very nice - thanks for the link. Those ogres are grand, as are the knights and the dogs - but it's always the larger units of foot troops whichmake an Empire army for me.  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 27, 2016, 05:11:11 PM
Lost patrol has been announced on the website, £35.
So instead of hiding everything until a week before release, they're trying out giving the customer information beforehand! 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on March 27, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 27, 2016, 05:11:11 PM
Lost patrol has been announced on the website, £35.
So instead of hiding everything until a week before release, they're trying out giving the customer information beforehand! 

I guess Kirby was literally the problem.

What a moron.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on March 27, 2016, 05:33:05 PM
Not convinced about that game, doesn't look as compelling a buy as some of the more recent efforts. Certainly the minis are nothing to get excited about. I suppose the price tag is a bit more affordable, but if I was in the market for figures I would look at Betrayal at Calth or Deathwatch Overkill, which seem far better value.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 27, 2016, 05:33:47 PM
Quote from: throwsFireball on March 27, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
I guess Kirby was literally the problem.

What a moron.

It's really beginning to seem that way. I went info my local gw yesterday and despite still not hitting me with that same joy it used too (maybe working in a game store makes me immune?) it was good to see leaflets on the counter. People's drawings on the wall,campaign posters and people's armies in the display cases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 27, 2016, 05:52:47 PM
Quote from: Nord on March 27, 2016, 05:33:05 PM
Not convinced about that game, doesn't look as compelling a buy as some of the more recent efforts. Certainly the minis are nothing to get excited about. I suppose the price tag is a bit more affordable, but if I was in the market for figures I would look at Betrayal at Calth or Deathwatch Overkill, which seem far better value.

I agree, but I think they're trying to stage boxed games at various price levels.  A lot of folks won't go into a shop and buy their kid $150 board game...but a $60 game is a bit more palatable.  Maybe a decent intro game for newer players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 27, 2016, 06:17:52 PM
Well, it's probably too early for such wild speculation, but perhaps we'll see a Warhammer Fantasy relaunch in a few years when they've sorted their shit out a bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 27, 2016, 06:42:42 PM
One of the podcasts I was listening to indicated GW wanted to get back into the tournament scene - and had mentioned introducing a "points system" for AoS.  I suspect you won't see a fantasy re-launch, but perhaps optional rules, or a add-on "AoS: Regiments" or something which will introduce a bit more of the bulk unit tactical play.

I do think the dice have been cast though, there isn't enough purchase support for massed rank-n-file fantasy gaming...at least the way they were going.  I think we'll see a lot of development in AoS but I doubt we'll see a return to classic Fantasy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 27, 2016, 07:06:38 PM
Couldn't see the new game n the website, although I did see them advertising free fast delivery if you send over $450. (Usual free delivery is if you spend over $100)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 27, 2016, 07:21:49 PM
There you go:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Lost-Patrol-EN (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Lost-Patrol-EN)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 27, 2016, 07:24:52 PM
Just found it myself but thanks :)
Looks to be lots of weapon options for the scouts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 27, 2016, 09:12:08 PM
Lost patrols priced for £35 for uk,the new genestealer doesn't do it for  me so I won't bother,I'm holding out for blood bowl as I  reckon my eldest would like playing that.

Mind me him and the wife/mum played monopoly last night and that was aggressive enough  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 27, 2016, 09:31:26 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 27, 2016, 06:17:52 PM
Well, it's probably too early for such wild speculation, but perhaps we'll see a Warhammer Fantasy relaunch in a few years when they've sorted their shit out a bit.

In the meantime I'd be happy if warhammer Diskwars was given more support. I'm not sure if it's GW or FFG who are to blame but it's a fun little game that catches the WHFB itch but it seems to have been left to wallow.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 27, 2016, 10:05:24 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on March 27, 2016, 09:31:26 PM
In the meantime I'd be happy if warhammer Diskwars was given more support. I'm not sure if it's GW or FFG who are to blame ...

It is a result of low sales.

Quote from: 3 fingers on March 27, 2016, 09:12:08 PM
Lost patrols priced for £35 for uk,the new genestealer doesn't do it for  me so I won't bother,I'm holding out for blood bowl as I  reckon my eldest would like playing that.

Are they new sculpts or are they just reusing the Genestealer sprue from that Ultramarines v. Tyranids boxed set?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 27, 2016, 10:08:43 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 27, 2016, 10:05:24 PM

Are they new sculpts or are they just reusing the Genestealer sprue from that Ultramarines v. Tyranids boxed set?


From what I understand full normal sprues, I was expecting "snap fit" stuff also.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 27, 2016, 10:24:08 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 27, 2016, 10:05:24 PM
It is a result of low sales.

Are they new sculpts or are they just reusing the Genestealer sprue from that Ultramarines v. Tyranids boxed set?


Dunno ,some look similar to the current ones in tyranid section, which they don't impress me at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 27, 2016, 10:30:14 PM
Looks as if GW are going back to the days of having loads of different types of games to play, not quite like those published in White Dwarf. Can't wait for BB and Necromunda to come back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on March 28, 2016, 06:44:00 AM
 :'(

First the nerf hammer.
Then the forgotten dusty shelves of neglection.
And now, finally, the ban hammer.

RIP Bretonnia, May nostalgia keep you warm.
 :'(

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 28, 2016, 10:17:24 AM
Looks like the free company is in the "last chance to buy" section also. Pretty useful for frostgrave I think, since those are the old mordheim models.  Could just be a re-boxing, in the end though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on March 28, 2016, 02:18:53 PM
Shoot, they really cleared out a lot of the ranges. I might have to do some panic buying...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 28, 2016, 02:35:49 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 27, 2016, 10:05:24 PM
It is a result of low sales


No doubt.  Low sales following very little publicity? Funny that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 28, 2016, 03:40:22 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on March 28, 2016, 02:35:49 PM
No doubt.  Low sales following very little publicity? Funny that.

FFG does very little marketing of products after release. They did create and sell Organized Play kits for the game but even with that game didn't sell as well as other products in their catalogue. Not sure why as its a pretty fun game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 28, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
Quote from: YPU on March 28, 2016, 10:17:24 AM
Looks like the free company is in the "last chance to buy" section also. Pretty useful for frostgrave I think, since those are the old mordheim models.  Could just be a re-boxing, in the end though.

While a decent, versatile kit - it's aging immensely.  I'd like to see a replacement box if Mordheim gets a re-boot (alternately, perhaps people will pick up the Frostgrave plastics for Mordheim if it does show back up!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 28, 2016, 04:36:59 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 28, 2016, 04:29:33 PM
While a decent, versatile kit - it's aging immensely.  I'd like to see a replacement box if Mordheim gets a re-boot (alternately, perhaps people will pick up the Frostgrave plastics for Mordheim if it does show back up!).
I might be blinded with nostalgia on them, I think. They were the first multi part plastic kit with such versatility I ever bought. The notion of a updated mordheim sprue isn't horrible. Lets wait to see if the new game doesn't end up being some sort of single session board game. (which would be a disappointment but might still be good)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 28, 2016, 05:24:40 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 28, 2016, 03:40:22 PM
FFG does very little marketing of products after release. They did create and sell Organized Play kits for the game but even with that game didn't sell as well as other products in their catalogue. Not sure why as its a pretty fun game.

Unless it's Star Wars related, when they fog that dead horse to within an inch of its life.

As for GW I've always been a fantasy guy and as such their current releases haven't appealed all that much. In general it's great to see them explore their IPthough, albeit in ohers mediums, warhammer total war Vermintide, Mordheim and the forthcoming Man O War computer game all look interesting and a few friends have played BFG on the PC and say it's very promising.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 02, 2016, 04:41:33 PM
I was sure these were out already, but GW have some stupidly expensive brushes (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Artificer-Brush-Bundle) up for pre-order

It's £16 for the Medium, £14 for the Small and £12 for the extra small  :o (or as a special sale price, £42 for the set)

I just bought 5 sable brushes from Rosemary & Co for a little over £21, and you can pick up W&N series 7 for considerably less than GW are charging

Mostly I just sadly shake my head at their prices, but things like this irritate me, as there are people who will willingly pay it, not realising they can get brushes every bit as good for a fraction of the price :(

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blofeld on April 02, 2016, 05:14:32 PM
Quote from: zemjw on April 02, 2016, 04:41:33 PM
I was sure these were out already, but GW have some stupidly expensive brushes (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Artificer-Brush-Bundle) up for pre-order
I thought for a minute this might be an April Fools! That's mad even for GW, would anyone actually buy them??
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on April 02, 2016, 05:17:20 PM
Quote from: zemjw on April 02, 2016, 04:41:33 PM

I just bought 5 sable brushes from Rosemary & Co for a little over £21, and you can pick up W&N series 7 for considerably less than GW are charging


Going a tad off topic but aye the R&C brushes are the best I've used, the series 401 Sable my personal favouites.

But GW releasing expensive brushes doesn't surprise me as they have a captive audience who will lap it up. It's just like there £7 for 100g of sand :O
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 02, 2016, 05:19:26 PM
Trouble is lot of people are brainwashed into using GW only products.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 02, 2016, 05:22:57 PM
Quote from: zemjw on April 02, 2016, 04:41:33 PM
there are people who will willingly pay it, not realising they can get brushes every bit as good for a fraction of the price :(

I know of people who would realise it, but go to GW for the 'convenience'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 02, 2016, 06:29:16 PM
And on the other side of things... https://www.facebook.com/Blood-Bowl-219720111727104/

Official GW bloodbowl page with pics ofthe first painted new bloodbowl mini.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 02, 2016, 06:52:49 PM
Nah. Can't get excited. That orc is just plug-ugly. Bits of pink and turquiose blobbed over it isn"t helping, either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on April 02, 2016, 07:30:56 PM
I can understand the mismatched attire but why has that orc partially applied lipstick?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 02, 2016, 07:49:20 PM
I think it's meant to be a bruise.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 02, 2016, 08:01:43 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on April 02, 2016, 05:19:26 PM
Trouble is lot of people are brainwashed into using GW only products.

I found this in the comments section of a post on facebook from the good rick himself.
"Rick Priestley Games Workshop don't make brushes - they buy them in from Winsor & Newton who supply rebranded brushes based on their standard range. Just once - when I was there - we persuaded W&N to do a limited edition of a range based on their premium Series 7 brushes - which are made to a higher standard and are generally held to be the best brushes available. If that's still the case, I would guess this is the same deal again - W&N Series 7 brushes sized to GW's 'inbetween' brush sizes. If so I'm sure they're very good. I generally go for Series 7's myself - as you can buy the sizes you want and many good art suppliers offer them at a discount."

I knew GW got their brushes made for them, but their standard brushes are so damned poor that i think maybe winsor and newton are actually selling them their cheap "student" quality brushes,the ones they have mass produced in china to sell to shops like the works.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 02, 2016, 08:05:30 PM
I don't know if I've just got issues, but I don't buy my brushes from a single company because I find it rare that any one brand gives me what I want from large, medium and small brushes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on April 02, 2016, 09:23:02 PM
Just seen that new BB orc. Doesn't really do it for me unfortunately. Nice to see they've kept the Wayne England artwork for the commentators though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on April 03, 2016, 06:32:23 AM
Quote from: zemjw on April 02, 2016, 04:41:33 PM
I was sure these were out already, but GW have some stupidly expensive brushes (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Artificer-Brush-Bundle) up for pre-order

It's £16 for the Medium, £14 for the Small and £12 for the extra small  :o (or as a special sale price, £42 for the set)

I just bought 5 sable brushes from Rosemary & Co for a little over £21, and you can pick up W&N series 7 for considerably less than GW are charging

Mostly I just sadly shake my head at their prices, but things like this irritate me, as there are people who will willingly pay it, not realising they can get brushes every bit as good for a fraction of the price :(



Are you kidding me?  That's around $60 in American currency.  Michaels and Hobbytown USA sell cheaper brushes.  I think even Walmart sells brushes now, since they've added hobby and craft supplies at their larger stores; I will check tomorrow when I make my weekly grocery run.  That is blatant price gouging.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on April 03, 2016, 06:49:18 AM
That's always got me, you can buy a set of professional jewelers files/saws for far less than GW charge, same for brushes and as for sculpting? A kit of dentist tools is apparently the best thing out there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on April 03, 2016, 06:52:56 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on April 03, 2016, 06:49:18 AM
That's always got me, you can buy a set of professional jewelers files/saws for far less than GW charge, same for brushes and as for sculpting? A kit of dentist tools is apparently the best thing out there.

This is probably exclusive to America, but I bought some good dental tools at a gun show at a fairly low price, from a guy who sells stuff for survivalists.  The dental pick has made panel lines and paint scraping a simple task.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on April 03, 2016, 11:53:56 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on April 03, 2016, 06:49:18 AM
A kit of dentist tools is apparently the best thing out there.

I got my kit of dentist tools from...a dentist. Whenever I have to visit them, I ask for used tools that otherwise would be thrown away. Last time I got lucky.

That's right, kids, with true wargamer mentality even a dentist's appointment turns into a thrilling opportunity. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 03, 2016, 12:02:28 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on April 03, 2016, 06:49:18 AM
That's always got me, you can buy a set of professional jewelers files/saws for far less than GW charge.

As somebody in that profession my tools tend to cross the line from professional use to hobby and back quite a lot, sometimes multiple times a day. The old GW pin vice is far superior to anything sold at goldsmith suppliers around here, for instance. I'm sure I paid GW rates over a product from some other producer, but I don't regret the purchase.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 03, 2016, 12:23:46 PM
Fair play, the GW pin vice with the big round rubber grip is a lovely piece of kit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 03, 2016, 06:12:11 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on April 03, 2016, 11:53:56 AM
I got my kit of dentist tools from...a dentist. Whenever I have to visit them, I ask for used tools that otherwise would be thrown away. Last time I got lucky.

I've tried that (don't even need a visit; me sister's a dental nurse, training as a dental hygienist) but it was no-go. Too many 'elf 'n' safety regulations, even around tools that haven't been near anyone's mouth.

Which is no big loss, because dental-quality wax carvers are pretty cheap on ebay, and from certain dental suppliers. Dental quality, as opposed to the even cheaper 12-tools-for-pennies sets that are usually recommended to wargames hobbyists, which can have pretty rough or chunky edges.

The latter's what the current GW sculpting are like. I was interested to see one of the set looked like a zahle/wax #5 (http://www.fairwaydental.com.au/assets/full/ZFL008.jpg), but checking them in-store, the edges are really thick and blunt. They look like 'safety' sculpting tools for kids, and I can only guess that's the reason. After a quick visit to the GW site, I see the hobby knife isn't available online, citing the risk of selling to minors, while the sculpting tool set is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on April 04, 2016, 02:37:13 PM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Imperial-Space-Marine-2016?utm_campaign=c33be48947-CW_2016_4_4_Imperial_Space__Marine_ENG

18 pounds! ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 04, 2016, 02:45:22 PM
When I seen ,I first thought it was a box set of a squad,one figure  o_o lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 04, 2016, 02:52:40 PM
I shan't bother, you have them...all

plastic or finecastic?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on April 04, 2016, 03:05:55 PM
What a shame. I really like the figure, but 18GBP for a single plastic figure is not reasonable IMO. I can get a whole Dreadball team for that price :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 04, 2016, 03:07:01 PM
Yeah but it does come with a 32 mm base  ;) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on April 04, 2016, 03:31:56 PM
Why do they price things like that? Do they expect people not to buy, so they charge high prices for a huge windfall?  Or are they expecting teenagers to whine and complain to their parents that they must spend $60 on the Genuine GW Products?  Or $25 for that special Space Marine with extra-wide base? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 04, 2016, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on April 04, 2016, 03:05:55 PM
What a shame. I really like the figure, but 18GBP for a single plastic figure is not reasonable IMO. I can get a whole Dreadball team for that price :(

They will fix that soon don't worry. New teams will be sold as individual multipart kits, you will be able to make one of three possible players from each mulitpart kit, with infinite possible poses possible depending on which one of them you decide to make.

No doubt also the new rules will insist you  have 21 available for a full team so that you have substitutes available...

Web bundle coming soon...

Seriously  though yes, wow thats expensive limited edition model, but it will be even more expensive when they find more them to sell in a few years time...

Still a complete 32mm base included, is that limited edition  as well?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 04, 2016, 04:04:27 PM
I still have at least half a box of the RTB1 plastic space marines, so I think I'll make my own.

That figure, in fact, looks quite similar to the original metal limited edition one they did, which I also have, so another reason not to buy.

As for the price - £18 seems to be what they've settled on for single figures at the moment. Wonder if we'll break £20 for a "regular" figure this year?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 04, 2016, 04:11:09 PM
Considering you can get single perfect quality GW figures off the Chinese for $5 each, it's almost like GW is trying to breed recasters. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 04, 2016, 04:25:44 PM
I do chuckle when I see $30 Forgeworld landraiders from China with "12 available / 76 sold".

China is awash with GW copies.  Also I see a lot of painting service stuff out of China and Taiwan - not bad work too, and prices are okay. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 04, 2016, 08:02:50 PM
Only available for two days as well. $59 down here, could probably buy dread all and a team for that amount when things are on sale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on April 04, 2016, 08:15:43 PM
I think I'll stick to buying RT era metal and plastic marines, as that is actually cheaper for me then buying new stuff in the shop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 05, 2016, 08:52:26 AM
Quote from: zemjw on April 04, 2016, 04:04:27 PM

That figure, in fact, looks quite similar to the original metal limited edition one they did, which I also have, so another reason not to buy.

sorry - bit of bad form to quote oneself ::), but I checked when I got home. The pose is indeed one of the original limited edition figures - Stuff of Legends link (http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/le/index.htm) - it's the LE2 Imperial Space Marine.

Even better, I have two of them  :D . Sadly, both need a long dettol bath and repaint, but still...

I tend to get nostalga twinge on Stuff of Legends - August 1986 first space marines (http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm). Happy days  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 05, 2016, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: zemjw on April 05, 2016, 08:52:26 AM
sorry - bit of bad form to quote oneself ::), but I checked when I got home. The pose is indeed one of the original limited edition figures - Stuff of Legends link (http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/le/index.htm) - it's the LE2 Imperial Space Marine.

Even better, I have two of them  :D . Sadly, both need a long dettol bath and repaint, but still...

I tend to get nostalga twinge on Stuff of Legends - August 1986 first space marines (http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm). Happy days  :)

Dem prices, damn. Even factoring in inflation, they only come out to about £3-£5 each, if that.

Don't worry, though, GW has your back with it's £18 miniatures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 05, 2016, 10:24:56 AM
Quote from: zemjw on April 05, 2016, 08:52:26 AM
sorry - bit of bad form to quote oneself ::), but I checked when I got home. The pose is indeed one of the original limited edition figures - Stuff of Legends link (http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/le/index.htm) - it's the LE2 Imperial Space Marine.

Even better, I have two of them  :D . Sadly, both need a long dettol bath and repaint, but still...

I tend to get nostalga twinge on Stuff of Legends - August 1986 first space marines (http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm). Happy days  :)

I only have one, but, I intend to stick with it, after all, its still actually in the mountain waiting for paint... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 11, 2016, 04:34:51 PM
They're back!  ;D

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1692/26098239330_968a8efb29_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FLdiiC)

Linky (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer?N=102295+4294965240)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on April 11, 2016, 05:07:12 PM
Ahh, so it was the space hulk kind of "last chance to but".  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 11, 2016, 05:24:29 PM
If they're ever throwing out any old sofas I think I'd buy a couple. The amount of stuff they seem to find down the back of them is just incredible  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 11, 2016, 05:36:55 PM
C'mon, neither of those are legitimate moans. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 11, 2016, 07:49:35 PM
Quote from: Scurv on April 11, 2016, 07:33:56 PM
If anyone actually read the blurb they would know it is a limited edition marine which is a reimagining of the first marine figure (the one everyone is saying they have already) to celebrate 30 years of space marines.

It is actually a collectors piece hence the stupid price.



Yup. I did. Still, I am happy with the original imagining.

Then considered the GW definition of limited edition, and concluded the high probability of more of this re-imagining of it turning up every few years.

Consider GW limited edition to mean "limited edition, this year?"

Is that legitimate enough  ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on April 11, 2016, 08:20:21 PM
So, they celebrate 30 years of Space Marines...
Will they also celebrate 30 years of Orks (the very first Warhammer 40K LE was an Ork after all, the marine was LE02...), 30 years of Eldar, 30 years of Imperial Guard, 30 years of Inquisition, etc. with special models?  :? 
Or are you just a second class citizen if you're not a 8 foot tall, genetically manipulated, power-armoured male power fantasy?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 11, 2016, 09:04:16 PM
You never know, they might surprise us and do just that...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 11, 2016, 09:17:25 PM
Quote from: Modhail on April 11, 2016, 08:20:21 PM

Or are you just a second class citizen if you're not a 8 foot tall, genetically manipulated, power-armoured male power fantasy?

I smell a reworking of 'Blazing Saddles' with 40K races. It's a winner, I tells ya!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on April 11, 2016, 09:36:46 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 11, 2016, 09:17:25 PM
I smell a reworking of 'Blazing Saddles' with 40K races. It's a winner, I tells ya!

It'll certainly be better than that "Ultramarines" movie...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cait Sidhe on April 13, 2016, 11:56:06 AM
Quote from: Scurv on April 11, 2016, 07:33:56 PM
If anyone actually read the blurb they would know it is a limited edition marine which is a reimagining of the first marine figure (the one everyone is saying they have already) to celebrate 30 years of space marines.

It is actually a collectors piece hence the stupid price.

Huh, it's £18 which is pretty much the standard for single character models from GW now, so nothing to do with being a "collectors piece".  ???

same as...

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Space-Marine-Captain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Space-Marine-Librarian
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-EU/Blood-Angels-Sanguinary-Priest-2014

etc... none of which are limited edition and some are even £20 or more if they have wings or something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 13, 2016, 05:09:31 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 11, 2016, 09:17:25 PM
I smell a reworking of 'Blazing Saddles' with 40K races. It's a winner, I tells ya!

Well, we're definitely gonna need a shitload of dimes!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on April 13, 2016, 05:14:13 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on April 13, 2016, 05:09:31 PM
Well, we're definitely gonna need a shitload of dimes!

 lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol  That is priceless, well done Fram.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on April 13, 2016, 06:08:23 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on April 13, 2016, 05:09:31 PM
Well, we're definitely gonna need a shitload of dimes!

Remember to get rid of the chewing gum first.  ;)

The way things are going, though, a shitload (metric or imperial, BTW?) of dimes will probably not even buy you a Games Workshop starter army... lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 13, 2016, 09:09:49 PM
EDIT: Just kidding, thanks GW Canada!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on April 13, 2016, 10:32:16 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 11, 2016, 09:17:25 PM
I smell a reworking of 'Blazing Saddles' with 40K races. It's a winner, I tells ya!

Poor old Gavriel Johnson, with his authentic rogue trader gibberish...

"The emperor is a gree*BONG*!"

"What did he say? The emperor is agreeable?"

"No godrum dagnabbit the emperor is a gree*BONG*!"

"The emperor is agreeable!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 13, 2016, 11:01:53 PM
The new games workshop boxed game confuses me. It's meant to be played on a 6x8 table but regardless, how much maneuvering are you really gonna do with just two knights?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 13, 2016, 11:29:36 PM
Quote from: nic-e on April 13, 2016, 11:01:53 PM
The new games workshop boxed game confuses me. It's meant to be played on a 6x8 table but regardless, how much maneuvering are you really gonna do with just two knights?

28mm really does not suit miniatures this big.

... Thinking on which, are there any Japanese style mecha games?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 13, 2016, 11:55:08 PM
Quote from: throwsFireball on April 13, 2016, 11:29:36 PM
28mm really does not suit miniatures this big.

... Thinking on which, are there any Japanese style mecha games?

Indeed.I imagine when the box gets bought by bit sellers looking for cheap knight parts you'll be able to pick up the rules/cards online cheap and play the game with smaller minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 14, 2016, 02:26:45 AM
Quote from: nic-e on April 13, 2016, 11:01:53 PM
The new games workshop boxed game confuses me. It's meant to be played on a 6x8 table but regardless, how much maneuvering are you really gonna do with just two knights?

Maybe I'm adding 2+2 and getting 5, but since Mark Rountree's last report mentioned that they absolutely wouldn't cheapen their premium image (or somesuch) by dropping prices on their existing products, I've had a feeling that all their 40K-themed board games - new products - are stealth price-drops for minis intended for 40K. Who really bought all those 30K marines just for Battle of Calth, or all those genestealer hybrids just for Deathwatch: Overkill? Especially with concurrent WD and much-vaunted Forgeworld Horus Heresy rules to go with them. You just buy the minis in bigger box sets with two forces, rather than boxes of ten minis for £35-40.

Maybe it's a bit of a stretch for those two games, where the minis don't already exist in 40K, at least not for a long while; and I don't know if the scouts and stealers in... erm... the scouts 'n' stealers game... are new, or just repackaged. But I think there's a better case for the knight game. Buying two knights, a chunk of scenery, and whatever other gewgaws for £120 has got to sting a little less than buying the two listed knights (original and warden flavour) alone, separately, for £180.

Oh, and you'd do it for Leman Russ.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Queeg on April 14, 2016, 03:40:45 AM
I would think that the GW board of directors would be happy just to settle for being in a position to celebrate 3 years of the Age of Sigmar in the future, let alone celebrate 30 years of any of the fantasy range .... celebrating it's history after wiping it out would be rather on the nose even for them wouldn't it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 14, 2016, 07:25:23 AM
A knights game? Seriously? 2 knights and some terrain with some rules. Obviously this is just a discount deal for 2 knights. I'd be highly suprised if the rules were any good. And if the rules were any good I can imagine a lot of people just using the old knights from Epic and playing it on a board the size of the Heroquest board.

...Unless these new knights have real firing* weapons and targets on them for little kiddies to aim at with arm popping** action when you hit the target, pew pew.

*Spring loaded
** More spring loaded action
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 14, 2016, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: Queeg on April 14, 2016, 03:40:45 AM
I would think that the GW board of directors would be happy just to settle for being in a position to celebrate 3 years of the Age of Sigmar in the future, let alone celebrate 30 years of any of the fantasy range .... celebrating it's history after wiping it out would be rather on the nose even for them wouldn't it?

Are they doing that? Any links?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 14, 2016, 02:26:29 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 14, 2016, 07:25:23 AM
A knights game? Seriously? 2 knights and some terrain with some rules. Obviously this is just a discount deal for 2 knights. I'd be highly suprised if the rules were any good. And if the rules were any good I can imagine a lot of people just using the old knights from Epic and playing it on a board the size of the Heroquest board.

...Unless these new knights have real firing* weapons and targets on them for little kiddies to aim at with arm popping** action when you hit the target, pew pew.

*Spring loaded
** More spring loaded action

I'd say look at it from the other side.  Instead of buying one Knight...you can get two for a "little bit" more money so you're probably likely to take a swing at it.  And let's be honest, sheets of plastic don't cost that much.  I think GW is doing some rather sly "get you to spend a bit more" strategies which will probably work.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 14, 2016, 03:50:11 PM
Quote from: nic-e on April 13, 2016, 11:01:53 PM
The new games workshop boxed game confuses me. It's meant to be played on a 6x8 table but regardless, how much maneuvering are you really gonna do with just two knights?

They'd have more space than they do on a typical 40K table.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 15, 2016, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: rebelyell2006 on April 13, 2016, 10:32:16 PM
Poor old Gavriel Johnson, with his authentic rogue trader gibberish...

"The emperor is a gree*BONG*!"

"What did he say? The emperor is agreeable?"

"No godrum dagnabbit the emperor is a gree*BONG*!"

"The emperor is agreeable!"
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 16, 2016, 12:36:01 PM
the knight: renegade games looks kind of interesting, though I have no intent of buying the actual set. Chances are the rules can be bought online for next to nothing soon enough, and I figure you could play it with epic scale models just as easy.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on April 16, 2016, 07:33:16 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 14, 2016, 07:25:23 AM
A knights game? Seriously? 2 knights and some terrain with some rules. Obviously this is just a discount deal for 2 knights. I'd be highly suprised if the rules were any good. And if the rules were any good I can imagine a lot of people just using the old knights from Epic and playing it on a board the size of the Heroquest board.

...Unless these new knights have real firing* weapons and targets on them for little kiddies to aim at with arm popping** action when you hit the target, pew pew.

*Spring loaded
** More spring loaded action

I like the knight model, but never bought one because I didn't want a 40k army to go with it and just one wasn't enough for a force on its own. I wanted to have just Knights duking it out, Robot Jox style. £90 online - split the box with someone and arrange giant robot boxing matches. Gonna be good fun, especially with 6-7 players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 16, 2016, 08:18:15 PM
Yeah that'd be fun...and if the rules are decent, nothing stopping you from kit-bashing other stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Eric the Shed on April 16, 2016, 08:57:23 PM
no GW presence at Salute....says it all really..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on April 16, 2016, 09:27:48 PM
Quote from: Eric the Shed on April 16, 2016, 08:57:23 PM
no GW presence at Salute....says it all really..

Weren't Forge World/GW there?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on April 16, 2016, 10:35:58 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on April 16, 2016, 09:27:48 PM
Weren't Forge World/GW there?

I think I saw them just to the right of the entrance when you first went in.

But no they weren't really making their presence known.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on April 16, 2016, 10:37:41 PM
That's... stupid.

Wasn't there a guy in Space Marine suit out the front?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fastolfrus on April 17, 2016, 12:01:25 AM
Quote from: Scurv on April 02, 2016, 09:01:39 PM
I just take really good care of mine so I don't have to replace them. Cant think of the last time I purchased a brush.

Clean clean clean with water while it is being used as well as afterwards

And occasionally use a drop of hair conditioner.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 17, 2016, 12:08:09 AM
Quote from: von Lucky on April 16, 2016, 10:37:41 PM
That's... stupid.

Wasn't there a guy in Space Marine suit out the front?

I think that's a cosplayer, judging by Reddit:
(http://i.imgur.com/RIaGbyR.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 17, 2016, 09:54:54 AM
He didn't remove the mould line off his bolter muzzle.... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 17, 2016, 10:07:48 AM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 17, 2016, 03:40:13 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on April 16, 2016, 10:37:41 PM
That's... stupid.

I can't imagine a show where they would have less success than Salute.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 17, 2016, 08:03:33 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on April 17, 2016, 03:40:13 PM
I can't imagine a show where they would have less success than Salute.

GW's fervently avoided reference or comparison to other games and minis for years. Salute practically demands it, with many other manufacturers and clubs that are right there, making their own noise.

Not to mention that anyone going to Salute has probably already at least one foot outside the GW ringfence, and are there to look at those other games. I'd say zealous GW fans marked Games Day, and now Warhammer Fest, on their calendars instead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Humorous_Conclusion on April 17, 2016, 09:40:30 PM
Games Workshop stopped having an "official" stand at Salute, outside of Forgeworld, some years ago. I think they figured out that no-one was going to buy anything directly from them when you could get them from half a dozen other stands at a substantial discount. There's still plenty of Games Wokshop buying and selling at Salute, just not actually from Games Workshop.

What was surprising was how quiet the ForgeWorld stand was this year. In previous years it was swamped. Last year they introduced a queuing system, but the queue was huge. This year it was never more than a dozen people. Maybe it was because they didn't bring anything like the full range?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 18, 2016, 01:58:07 AM
Quote from: Vermis on April 17, 2016, 08:03:33 PM
Not to mention that anyone going to Salute has probably already at least one foot outside the GW ringfence, and are there to look at those other games.

This is what my thinking was. Either on the way out or well past the doorway
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 18, 2016, 06:48:57 AM
They actually did have a stand at Crisis last year, which surprised me.
Wonder why they had one there and now not at salute?
Or did something happen there that they decided against salute?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 18, 2016, 09:45:49 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on April 18, 2016, 06:48:57 AM
Or did something happen there that they decided against salute?

All the other boys pointed at them and laughed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 18, 2016, 06:20:48 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/RjwNOS0.jpg)

Good job, GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 18, 2016, 06:24:21 PM
What is that?  An auction listing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on April 18, 2016, 07:17:08 PM
Nope, Chinese recaster list.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 18, 2016, 07:34:52 PM
Ah, so much like the $30 Chinese landraiders.  lol  Gotcha.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 18, 2016, 10:52:06 PM
Pictures of the new fantasy orks, or rather oruks are on the webs. Not really my taste. One piece fullplate just doesn't suit greenskins.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 18, 2016, 11:28:11 PM
Sigmarorcs? They look like Orks, in Space marine armour set in the fantasy world. Full plate wouldn't be so bad if it actually looked like full plate. I have to say though that I quite like the Wyvern Miniature (if that is what the big beasty is). Only one view of it at the moment though, in no way flight practical though but I guess it could be seen as having non-functional wings if you were worried about it, much like flightless birds. The Orcs might pass as some good, if smallish, ogres though with a headswap. I'd do that if I could get some cheap
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 19, 2016, 12:04:04 AM
Ooof...those...Orcs...eh...yeah.  lol

The wyvern beastie thing is definitely unique and I don't hate the shaman fella.  The rest, they really don't fit --- though I can see a ton of kit-bashed Orc 40K warlords/nobz in mega-armour in the future.

The problem I've been seeing with AoS is the contradictory nature of the game thus far and its model line.

Problem: Warhammer Fantasy line-battle game has large range, high starting cost.

Solution: Warhammer Fantasy skirmish with reduced range, no army book costs, and smaller possible armies.

Fly in Ointment: Create gigantic models which cost an absurd amount of money...essentially restoring the high buy-in cost once again (if you skip the "Start Collecting" boxes, which I suspect will eventually disappear).

I guess I'm not seeing the logic of a struggling line of miniatures hoping they'll sell more by making hugely more expensive models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 19, 2016, 12:42:41 AM
Quote from: YPU on April 18, 2016, 10:52:06 PM
Pictures of the new fantasy orks, or rather oruks are on the webs. Not really my taste. One piece fullplate just doesn't suit greenskins.

Weirdly, I really really like them. Bulky, crude and vicious.

The heads look a bit stupid but everything else is up my alley.

Tell you something too: These are gonna be some EASY Bloodbowl conversions.

EDIT: I think the biggest shame with Age of Sigmar is that GW could've done something interesting with it. If they'd gone all the way with the '80s metal aesthetic and had giant musclebeasts blasting each other into pieces with the focus on anime-style combat... It'd've been pretty cool and kind of original. Instead they didn't cut their ties enough and have tried to keep some sort of connection.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 19, 2016, 01:56:23 AM
It's just 40k close combat really. Same basic aesthetics, just different setting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 19, 2016, 07:20:24 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 19, 2016, 01:56:23 AM
It's just 40k close combat really. Same basic aesthetics, just different setting.

Which is the problem.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 19, 2016, 08:04:19 AM
Didn't like the orcs/orks from GW ,don't like those.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 19, 2016, 08:21:34 AM
Art from the Godbeast book:

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5F9wCM-q_WY/Vw9Y-Is3NZI/AAAAAAAAAjw/XH4Ojgpz-FItvaGfDMBRSMe91e-nMO3EACKgB/s1600/age%2Bof%2Bsigmar%2Bartwork%2Bstormcast%2Beternals%2Bvs%2Bskaven%2B1.jpg)

What could have been:

(http://i.imgur.com/hpSXrPY.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 19, 2016, 08:34:32 AM
Quote from: throwsFireball on April 19, 2016, 07:20:24 AM
Which is the problem.

Yep, one company selling two versions of the same game with different packaging. Way to compete with yourself GW. ;)

Where's that last image from. They still using Blanches artwork? Pretty sure he still works for them doesn't he?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 19, 2016, 09:06:08 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 19, 2016, 08:34:32 AM
Yep, one company selling two versions of the same game with different packaging. Way to compete with yourself GW. ;)

Where's that last image from. They still using Blanches artwork? Pretty sure he still works for them doesn't he?

Yep, that's Blanche's art. Supposedly the inspiration for the Sigmarines but considering how different they are it's a bit of a joke.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on April 19, 2016, 09:12:33 AM
Quote from: throwsFireball on April 19, 2016, 09:06:08 AM
Yep, that's Blanche's art. Supposedly the inspiration for the Sigmarines but considering how different they are it's a bit of a joke.

Has anything ever ended up looking like Blanche's sketches once sculpted?!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 19, 2016, 09:16:14 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on April 19, 2016, 09:12:33 AM
Has anything ever ended up looking like Blanche's sketches once sculpted?!  ;)

I think the Kingdom Death guys could have a real good go at it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 19, 2016, 09:54:16 AM
Zombie dragon by Tom Meier is pretty much a dead ringer, excuse the pun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on April 19, 2016, 10:40:58 AM
And Blanche's own converted miniatures.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5a/John_Blanche_-_Chaos_Minotaur_model.jpg)

Or her:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/John_Blanche_-_Amazonia_Gothique.jpg) (http://www.sodemons.com/technogallery/chaosette.jpg)

1986 sculpt by Micheal Perry based on 'Amazonia Gothique' by John Blanche. Okay, not quite, but close.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 19, 2016, 12:31:04 PM
The C15 Armoured Orcs were very close to the original Blanche sketch:

http://oldorcsneverdie.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/john-blanche-did-it.html (http://oldorcsneverdie.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/john-blanche-did-it.html)

And the original Slann and Broo lines followed similar sketches closely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 19, 2016, 01:04:00 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 18, 2016, 11:28:11 PM
Sigmarorcs? They look like Orks, in Space marine armour set in the fantasy world. Full plate wouldn't be so bad if it actually looked like full plate. I have to say though that I quite like the Wyvern Miniature (if that is what the big beasty is). Only one view of it at the moment though, in no way flight practical though but I guess it could be seen as having non-functional wings if you were worried about it, much like flightless birds.

My condiments exactly.

Quote from: Elbows on April 19, 2016, 12:04:04 AM
Solution: Warhammer Fantasy skirmish with reduced range, no army book costs, and smaller possible armies.

Fly in Ointment: Create gigantic models which cost an absurd amount of money...essentially restoring the high buy-in cost once again (if you skip the "Start Collecting" boxes, which I suspect will eventually disappear).

I guess I'm not seeing the logic of a struggling line of miniatures hoping they'll sell more by making hugely more expensive models.

I think that was the point! Maybe I'm crediting GW with too much sneaky intelligence (especially when it's so blatant) but while 'free army books, smaller starting armies' is a juicy dangling carrot that can and does hook fanboys, it almost seems like GW then carry the 'fewer customers providing the same revenue' thing over to their minis. Fewer minis providing the same amount of revenue...

And then it looks like the smaller armies are in no way intended to be the endpoint for gamers, if those 200-mini, £400+ bundles are any indication. 200 minis for a skirmish game, fer the luvva mike.

Quote from: throwsFireball on April 19, 2016, 12:42:41 AM
If they'd gone all the way with the '80s metal aesthetic and had giant musclebeasts blasting each other into pieces with the focus on anime-style combat... It'd've been pretty cool and kind of original.

Maybe it's a matter of viewpoint, but I thought that's what they - and others - did already.  :D

The art... the John Blanche design looks better, IMO, but perhaps only because it looks more 'lived in' and baroque, rather than obviously he-mannish. As usual.
The sigmarines vs. ratfiendstormogre piece: fairly basic rendering, no great sense of motion, oversaturation, everything (that has a mouth) suffering from lockjaw, a look as if the artist directly copied the models, and a couple of ol' digital art tropes - hoping that too much aerial perspective (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_perspective) (which isn't really working, IMO) and grubby sunbeam clouds will carry the piece. It might be made flatter if you ran over it with a road roller, but not much.

Not the worst illustration I've seen from GW, but man, if AoS models are kid's action figures, this is the clunky art that comes on the blister card.

(Something about the faces of the nearest stormcast and dracoth... it's not Dave Gallagher, is it?)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 19, 2016, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: Vermis on April 19, 2016, 01:04:00 PM
I think that was the point! Maybe I'm crediting GW with too much sneaky intelligence (especially when it's so blatant) but while 'free army books, smaller starting armies' is a juicy dangling carrot that can and does hook fanboys, it almost seems like GW then carry the 'fewer customers providing the same revenue' thing over to their minis. Fewer minis providing the same amount of revenue...

In the gaming industry, these kind of customers are called "whales". It's an entire business strategy to focus on the big spenders. It's also very manipulative and disgusting but hey ho.

Quote from: Vermis on April 19, 2016, 01:04:00 PM
Maybe it's a matter of viewpoint, but I thought that's what they - and others - did already.  :D

I'm saying they didn't go far enough.

Also the combat isn't right. It just feels like it's clung to it's roots instead of going full madness.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 19, 2016, 02:01:16 PM
Yeah, the "whale" concept was in full effect back in 2000-2005 when I was roommates with a store manager here in the states.  While it was a good time for us (cheap bits and lots of games) the sales strategy was (straight from the horse's mouth) concentrated on large initial purchases made by mom and dad for a kid.  The goal was to sell the hobby and get a $200-300 initial purchase.

There was no purchase strategy to keep current gamers (let's be honest, poor highschool and college kids is never a smart market) buying products.

I think my problem with AoS's new strategy is that while a lot of people seem to enjoy the game rules well enough, you're really risking it when a single character model now costs $33...which is even a lot considering most 40K characters are $20-25 a piece.  I guess we'll see if it works.  The issue was already a dwindling customer base with Warhammer Fantasy...the "increase the cost!" bit is just an odd approach to solving that problem.

PS: The above art is...without exaggeration probably the worst piece of art I've seen in a GW product.  Granted I haven't owned any books they've printed since the early 2000's, and I'm no fan of Blanche's art methods...but the warmed over comic book look, is truly terrible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 19, 2016, 02:36:13 PM
Quote from: Elbows on April 19, 2016, 02:01:16 PM


PS: The above art is...without exaggeration probably the worst piece of art I've seen in a GW product.  Granted I haven't owned any books they've printed since the early 2000's, and I'm no fan of Blanche's art methods...but the warmed over comic book look, is truly terrible.

I was just thinking the same thing. I think it goes back to the same problem that alot of the newer GW miniatures have,which is they are done by digital designers not physical artists. Whilst you can't say theyre inherently bad as technical works, They're just so ...soulless, more like an attempt to just recreate something photographically than give a fantastical exaggeration of these god warriors.
Not to mention the bizarre posing and dull colours.
It looks like art done by a small company to promote the start of a kickstarer,not the artwork we're used to from GW,which has always had an amazing portfolio of warhammer art.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 19, 2016, 02:48:33 PM
Yeah, GW has never been short of decent artists (again, from early 90's - early 2000's in my experience).  While John Blanche's stuff is a bit lazy, he's always been good at delivering "atmosphere".  My personal favourite was/is the Mark Gibbons work.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/80/50/ed/8050edb63dc1a98944323cf70e40a22f.jpg)

(http://www.fond-ecran.com/ORIGINAUX/divers/gw_necromunda/gw_necromunda_004.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 19, 2016, 05:12:41 PM
ThrowsFireball: oh aye, I know about whales. What I meant was something more like what Elbows mentioned:

Quote from: Elbows on April 19, 2016, 02:01:16 PM
The issue was already a dwindling customer base with Warhammer Fantasy...the "increase the cost!" bit is just an odd approach to solving that problem.

Not so much a small proportion of high-paying customers making up for the other, lower-paying customers, as a smaller proportion of customers being made to pay higher 'cos that's all the customers there are.

Quote from: throwsFireball on April 19, 2016, 01:30:36 PM
I'm saying they didn't go far enough.

Also the combat isn't right. It just feels like it's clung to it's roots instead of going full madness.

Ah, it is a matter of viewpoint. I think they've gone plenty full madness.  lol ;)

On the topic of GW artists we like, I went searching for images and some of them linked back to this topic, a couple of years ago! So I'll start off quoting myself.  :D

Quote from: Vermis on August 15, 2014, 02:52:48 PM
Quote from: Modhail on August 15, 2014, 01:01:40 PM
Blanche and Kopinsky beyond that era.

Yup. And a bit of Paul Dainton and Adrian Smith. And the guy whose art was in the 40K 3rd ed book, whose name escapes me. (Edit: Wayne England (http://www.northernshield-team.com/northernshield2/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/wayne_england_Thebolter.jpg).)
On that note, there were some of the guys on the Warhammer comic, crossing over with 2000AD in some cases. Colin MacNeil, Anthony Williams, the Kevs Walker and Hopgood, Tiernan Trevallion and the inestimable Wayne Reynolds.

I still have Jes Goodwin and Adrian Smith art books on me bookshelf, but I'd have to admit I've gone off some aspects of Adrian Smith's style. These images are examples:

http://art-of-40k.tumblr.com/image/82870901861
http://digital-art-gallery.com/picture/4041
http://chamberart.net/ru/view/51658-adrian.smith.damien.1427.html

Slightly contorted faces, and weird, twisted muscles around the shoulder (deltoids, pecs, biceps), pushed out to the corners of extremely wide ribcages. Maybe done for effect, but I don't know if it meshes well with the otherwise realistic (or at least well-done) rendering.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 19, 2016, 08:07:51 PM
John Blanche and Ian Miller are the GW illustrators I like. I think both transcend being "just" fantasy illustrators. I don't find anything about their stuff boring. I'm not sure if either's best stuff is their GW stuff - especially in the case of Ian Miller. I love the illustrations they did for the (textually awful) Tolkien Bestiary. I'm not sure if Blanche's Smaug (http://www.shirewisdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Smaug-Bestiary.jpg) would pass the Vermis test, but it remains the definitive Smaug for me.

I think Blanche's best orcs were the ones he did in that book too - although his Sorcery goblins are nice.

I also think that Blanche and Miller were far more interesting Tolkien illustrators than Howe and Lee.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 20, 2016, 12:43:43 AM
 lol

It gets a pass for reasons of Blancheness.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 22, 2016, 06:09:52 AM
Apparently one of the reasons GW killed Fantasy and has been cutting back on stores etc is because they feel they've reached market saturation.

Maybe they've reached market saturation because their products price out 95% of the population? o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 22, 2016, 10:08:41 AM
I'd go for the latter, for a couple of reasons: Kirby practically boasted they do no market research, how would they know how saturated the market is? (Though maybe it's different with the new guy) ICv2 figures suggest the tabletop gaming market is growing, while GW is standing still or shrinking. And forums are full of people saying they'd buy GW again, if it wasn't for the price or some other factor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 22, 2016, 10:31:13 AM
Quote from: Vermis on April 22, 2016, 10:08:41 AM
I'd go for the latter, for a couple of reasons: Kirby practically boasted they do no market research, how would they know how saturated the market is? (Though maybe it's different with the new guy) ICv2 figures suggest the tabletop gaming market is growing, while GW is standing still or shrinking. And forums are full of people saying they'd buy GW again, if it wasn't for the price or some other factor.

They need to reinvent their games.

40k has became a bloated mess, Fantasy was a bloated mess etc etc.

Cut down 28mm to skirmish games and collector's pieces (to be used for the skirmish games). Bring back Epic / Warmaster and use them for mass combat games. Also allows you to price them considerably lower for the sake of getting other customers.

Use a variety of scales, make the rulesets work together in some way and voila you've got a god damn money train. Get the customers on cheap smaller scale armies and then work them up to skirmish games with more expensive miniatures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 22, 2016, 10:48:49 AM
When I first started with 40k, (2nd edition) it basically was a skirmish system, none of this load yourself up n tanks nonsense. (Although I guess technically speaking the size of the battles would still be a skirmish by napoleonic standards. )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 22, 2016, 04:27:53 PM
Quote from: throwsFireball on April 22, 2016, 10:31:13 AM
They need to reinvent their games.

Well they make more money selling 30mm minis and vehicle kits. Until the company addresses that attitude and begins to make good games and focus on gameplay then they are SOL.

People say they might get back into GW games if the prices go down but that won't change the fact that for the most part their games are utter shit. Compare AoS or 40K to any of the games that get frequent mention here and ask yourself which one you would spend your money and time on based on the quality of the game.

Models attract people to a game but the quality of the game and the experience you get is what keeps you there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 22, 2016, 06:07:24 PM
I'm working on a 2nd Ed. project...but I can assure you I shant be getting anywhere near the mess that is 40K.

I've been listening to a lot of 40K podcasts lately just to kinda see what the game is.  It blows my mind how...different the game as become.

1) Create rule.
2) Create character which ignores said rule with special rule.
3) Create unit which ignores special rules which ignore the first rule.
4) Create character rule which allows character to use special rule when confronting a unit which ignores units which ignore the initial rule.
5) Create unit which undoes all special rules.
6) Create character rule which allows it to make a save against special rules which don't allow special rules...

It's gone beyond absurd to insane from what I can decipher.  I see big pie-plate templates and everything is Strength 8 or don't bother.  Characters have weapons which allow them to roll up to 12-15 additional attacks (all undone when units have boosted toughness, invulnerable saves on top of normal saves, with re-rolls etc. etc. etc.).

I always rather enjoyed the "absurdity" of 2nd edition, but it's got nothing on the weird meta-game which is the current 40K.  It also sounds (from what I can tell) that they're still dragging armies along with codices which are several editions old, but just get crutched to play current games.  Half of the armies in any given edition have current rulebooks, whilst others are patch-work quilts from previous editions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on April 22, 2016, 06:12:01 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on April 22, 2016, 04:27:53 PM
People say they might get back into GW games if the prices go down but that won't change the fact that for the most part their games are utter shit. Compare AoS or 40K to any of the games that get frequent mention here and ask yourself which one you would spend your money and time on based on the quality of the game.

Sums up nicely how I felt about GW rules since the beginning (probably the reason why I never got an army painted - simply not eager to play - although I ended up with umpty editions of both WFB and W40K and quite a couple of boxes worth minis) - only when I found LAF I discovered the galaxy of non-GW miniatures games, and I never really looked back since then...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 22, 2016, 06:16:05 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 22, 2016, 10:48:49 AM
When I first started with 40k, (2nd edition) it basically was a skirmish system, none of this load yourself up n tanks nonsense. (Although I guess technically speaking the size of the battles would still be a skirmish by napoleonic standards. )

I just think the scale of the game now is crazy and you need a massive board to play anything with maneuverability on. I've watched a few Battle Reports and even the "professionals" have boards way too small for the game they're playing.

Quote from: pixelgeek on April 22, 2016, 04:27:53 PM
Well they make more money selling 30mm minis and vehicle kits. Until the company addresses that attitude and begins to make good games and focus on gameplay then they are SOL.

People say they might get back into GW games if the prices go down but that won't change the fact that for the most part their games are utter shit. Compare AoS or 40K to any of the games that get frequent mention here and ask yourself which one you would spend your money and time on based on the quality of the game.

Models attract people to a game but the quality of the game and the experience you get is what keeps you there.

I guess we'll see how their CEO does. If you've reached market saturation, though, then you don't eliminate your market presence, you switch to a new market.

Like making multiple miniature scales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 22, 2016, 07:10:03 PM
Quote from: throwsFireball on April 22, 2016, 06:16:05 PM
I guess we'll see how their CEO does. If you've reached market saturation, though, then you don't eliminate your market presence, you switch to a new market.

Well as was mentioned before, I can't see how they think they are at market saturation when they don't do any market research.

I also doubt that comment since X-Wing sells more product than they do now. If anything they have saturated their remaining market. They aren't going to sell any more figures to their existing market.

Multiple scales only works as a solution if you produce good games. Bringing back Blood Bowl is one thing but ultimately Blood Bowl is a pretty bad, and boring, game. Same with Necromunda and Mordheim. Both of them succeeded because they were GW games and were in a market that wasn't full of competing titles. I doubt anyone would be dropping Frostgrave or SoBH to play Mordheim. Especially since neither of those games was balanced.

Epic is about the only game that they did that would succeed as a game and its also the one product they had that had extensive outside playtesting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 22, 2016, 11:38:27 PM
Quote from: throwsFireball on April 22, 2016, 10:31:13 AM
40k has became a bloated mess, Fantasy was a bloated mess etc etc.

Cut down 28mm to skirmish games and collector's pieces (to be used for the skirmish games). Bring back Epic / Warmaster and use them for mass combat games.

Way back when the first rumours of shakeups in Warhammer, and splitting it into a skirmish game and mass battle game appeared, I thought they could do worse than take all those ridonkulously huge armies and units of 8th ed and make the new mass battle game a 28mm-ified Warmaster. Similar to what Rick Priestly did when he turned it into Hail Caesar. Could've competed a bit better with KoW, rather than letting it - frankly - take over the stranglehold on fantasy mass battles.

Making a smaller buy-in/starting point skirmish game was still a right move; though maybe that detail was the only right decision in the process, because...

Quote from: pixelgeek on April 22, 2016, 04:27:53 PM
People say they might get back into GW games if the prices go down but that won't change the fact that for the most part their games are utter shit.

True! :) As we've said recently, it's almost as if the smaller starting point of AoS is just a piece of bait - a fake fly or a plastic worm on a hook - to get people interested, before funnelling them right back into the GW Hobby of buying expensive models, big armies, too many hardback books with unbalanced meta-gamey rules...

I can't imagine I'd ever get back into 40K rules either, and what Elbows said only makes it even more unlikely. In a similar vein to the AoS hook, I saw someone on another forum declare that GW was now gamer-friendly again because they offered 'free'  40K rules for genestealer hybrids in White Dwarf. Apart from the facts of the cost and availability of that issue, it didn't cross his mind that people might consider 40K to be some of the most gamer-unfriendly rules on the market, and a bit lacking as an enticement.

But, as I pointed out to him, I like to be able to buy GW minis for use with other rules. ;) Unfortunately, that still leaves the problem of high prices, to some degree. No rule in alternate systems that says 'on a roll of 4+, GW minis magically cost half of what they do', AFAIK.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on April 23, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
I do still miss 40k 2nd edition.

I also confess to remembering fondly all the fantasy years, from 5th edition through 7th, when I honestly enjoyed Fantasy.

Oh well. I do other stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on April 23, 2016, 02:14:04 AM
Went back and played 2nd edition a couple years ago.  Ruined most any nostalgia I had for that game.  It may not be quite as rules heavy as current versions, but it is CLUNKY!  The 2nd edition mechanics work great for Necromunda but for a squad-based game it's ridiculous. Rolling for the location of each individual jump pack marine? Come on...

I'm really looking forward to the new Warpath edition for some fast-playing rules that will let me field my 40k figs in a game that has a 40k'ish feel of gameplay without the layers upon layers of rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 23, 2016, 02:24:34 AM
I've started a time-consuming conversion for 2nd edition (basically streamlining it, removing some of the minutia, etc.) but it'll be a loooong process.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on April 23, 2016, 09:28:52 AM
Quote from: grant on April 23, 2016, 01:51:38 AM
I do still miss 40k 2nd edition.

I also confess to remembering fondly all the fantasy years, from 5th edition through 7th, when I honestly enjoyed Fantasy.

Oh well. I do other stuff.

Same sentiment here. I  miss playing fantasy battles in which the troops are engineered to be different and have different play styles. I thought that 8th edition was about the cleanest in terms of rules written, it was just the "buy more figures" engineering that ruined it. Strip out the need for huge units and it could have been perfect, for me at any rate.

Theses days I play Dragon Rampant, it's a nice enough system and we have had some good games, but it is bland compared to good old WHFB. My dwarfs are elite foot, my opponents beastmen are elite foot, my other opponents chaos warriors are elite foot, ad nauseum. I miss the crunch of the good old days. Part of the appeal was the distinctness of the different races - both in how they looked and how they played. Abstracted and simplified rules do not have this. The troops certainly look different on the table top, but they act in exactly the same way. We gave up using DR for WHFB and use it for LotR instead, which works better.

Yep, I miss good old WHFB. I thought I would still be playing it in my old age, it lasted over 20 years and gave me countless hours of enjoyment. It's still a sad loss to me. I know, I know, I can still play it, but others seem less inclined these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 23, 2016, 04:56:41 PM
Quote from: eilif on April 23, 2016, 02:14:04 AM
Went back and played 2nd edition a couple years ago.  Ruined most any nostalgia I had for that game.  It may not be quite as rules heavy as current versions, but it is CLUNKY! 

I had the same experience. The grenade rules alone can kill a game :-)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on April 23, 2016, 05:10:07 PM
Quote from: eilif on April 23, 2016, 02:14:04 AM
Went back and played 2nd edition a couple years ago.  Ruined most any nostalgia I had for that game.  It may not be quite as rules heavy as current versions, but it is CLUNKY!  The 2nd edition mechanics work great for Necromunda but for a squad-based game it's ridiculous. Rolling for the location of each individual jump pack marine? Come on...

I'm really looking forward to the new Warpath edition for some fast-playing rules that will let me field my 40k figs in a game that has a 40k'ish feel of gameplay without the layers upon layers of rules.

I'm not a huge fan of Mantic (some dodgy models, the never ending kickstarters) but their rules are generally solid. Kings of War 2nd ed is a much more streamlined and enjoyable mass battle game that WHFB ever was and I'm also looking forward to Warpath.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 23, 2016, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: Nord on April 23, 2016, 09:28:52 AM
Same sentiment here. I  miss playing fantasy battles in which the troops are engineered to be different and have different play styles. I thought that 8th edition was about the cleanest in terms of rules written, it was just the "buy more figures" engineering that ruined it. Strip out the need for huge units and it could have been perfect, for me at any rate.

Theses days I play Dragon Rampant, it's a nice enough system and we have had some good games, but it is bland compared to good old WHFB. My dwarfs are elite foot, my opponents beastmen are elite foot, my other opponents chaos warriors are elite foot, ad nauseum. I miss the crunch of the good old days. Part of the appeal was the distinctness of the different races - both in how they looked and how they played. Abstracted and simplified rules do not have this. The troops certainly look different on the table top, but they act in exactly the same way. We gave up using DR for WHFB and use it for LotR instead, which works better.

Yep, I miss good old WHFB. I thought I would still be playing it in my old age, it lasted over 20 years and gave me countless hours of enjoyment. It's still a sad loss to me. I know, I know, I can still play it, but others seem less inclined these days.

Hmm, I agree. I really really like Dragon Rampant, but I can see it getting a tad bland, even with the special rules to spice units up a bit. Crunch requires more fore-thought and planning and effort, and all of that seems near impossible nowadays.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on April 24, 2016, 04:54:21 PM
I know we've all moved on from the space marine 30th anniversary malarkey but I've done a little video review of the Apocrypha book.

https://youtu.be/VXNmNYVi1_o (https://youtu.be/VXNmNYVi1_o)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on April 25, 2016, 09:10:24 AM
Nice review, very detailed and you have a good speaking voice. I do think you should have ended the review mid sentence, that would have been so
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Mystic Spiral on April 25, 2016, 10:59:32 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on April 24, 2016, 04:54:21 PM
I know we've all moved on from the space marine 30th anniversary malarkey but I've done a little video review of the Apocrypha book.

https://youtu.be/VXNmNYVi1_o (https://youtu.be/VXNmNYVi1_o)

Thanks for that, first unboxing video I ever found useful. Didn't know the book even existed before it was sold out and it looked just like the sort of pointless art book I always want.

Probably decent if you don't already have most of the information. I have the originals(very dog eared). No need to get mugged on ebay for it now.

J
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on April 25, 2016, 11:32:15 AM
Quote from: Nord on April 25, 2016, 09:10:24 AM
I do think you should have ended the review mid sentence, that would have been so

I genuinely laughed out loud to that! I should have thought of doing it.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 25, 2016, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: Nord on April 25, 2016, 09:10:24 AM
Nice review, very detailed and you have a good speaking voice. I do think you should have ended the review mid sentence, that would have been so

It'd be almost like a Candlejack jo
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 25, 2016, 03:36:21 PM
Aos will begetting points this summer for competitive play, as well as more campaigns for narrative and expansions for unlimited play.
I'm feeling even more sure that AoS was kirbys bomb in the suitcase ready to kill off anyone who came after him and now damage control is beginning.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on April 25, 2016, 03:51:07 PM
Quote from: nic-e on April 25, 2016, 03:36:21 PM
Aos will begetting points this summer for competitive play, as well as more campaigns for narrative and expansions for unlimited play.
I'm feeling even more sure that AoS was kirbys bomb in the suitcase ready to kill off anyone who came after him and now damage control is beginning.

Yeah, just saw the ad (cannot get unsubscribed from mailing list), so basically back to basics, just with excessively more expensive models...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 25, 2016, 07:37:35 PM
Quote from: Argonor on April 25, 2016, 03:51:07 PM
Yeah, just saw the ad (cannot get unsubscribed from mailing list), so basically back to basics, just with excessively more expensive models...

Although now i am mor elikely to play it than i was fantasy, since the blocks always put me off. I like the AoS rule set for small games but can't be bothered to sit and try and negotiate the game for an hour or play a game of top trumpts to select my army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Landsknecht on April 26, 2016, 07:52:03 AM
This really shakes the foundation to the core.  X-wing has officially outpaced 40k in sales.  :o

GW should jump on the band wagon with the space combat games and re-release Battle Fleet Gothic.

http://www.spikeybits.com/2016/03/warhammer-dethroned-top-5-miniature-games.html (http://www.spikeybits.com/2016/03/warhammer-dethroned-top-5-miniature-games.html)

It will be interesting to see what GW's reaction will be this year.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 26, 2016, 07:55:20 AM
Quote from: Landsknecht on April 26, 2016, 07:52:03 AM
This really shakes the foundation to the core.  X-wing has officially outpaced 40k in sales.  :o

GW should jump on the band wagon with the space combat games and re-release Battle Fleet Gothic.

The problem is that, let's be honest here, BFG's rules aren't all that great. They're certainly no X-Wing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 26, 2016, 08:53:24 AM
To be honest I'm not really sure comparing 40k and x wing is truely relatable. X wing is basically ready in a box, no painting required and has an already established huge fanbase based upon a series of movies, whereas 40k fanbase is based purely upon itself so has done very well in that regard. X wing probably doesn't have the social stigma that surrounds other wargames.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on April 26, 2016, 09:10:20 AM
Those figures are US data, don't think they apply to UK and Europe, which is (to my knowledge) the bulk of GW's market.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 26, 2016, 09:14:30 AM
Fair enough then, still great work by FFG though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Landsknecht on April 26, 2016, 09:44:25 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 26, 2016, 08:53:24 AM
To be honest I'm not really sure comparing 40k and x wing is truely relatable. X wing is basically ready in a box, no painting required and has an already established huge fanbase based upon a series of movies, whereas 40k fanbase is based purely upon itself so has done very well in that regard. X wing probably doesn't have the social stigma that surrounds other wargames.
I've re-painted my Rebels for X-wing.  I have gotten to play more games of X-wing in the past year then the last ten years with my 40k Imperial Guard army.  Both games you are pushing tiny toys around a table so I would say it has the same social stigma.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 26, 2016, 10:09:44 AM
Yes but with x wing you don't need to be painting them. I think that is part of what people find strange about our hobby, having to paint your own toys. And the Reason x wing sells so well is because its fanbase doesn't need to rely on people that would visit the likes of this forum, miniature enthusiasts, its fanbase may come from the hordes of Star Wars fans out there. Of course I have no evidence to back this up, it's all just conjecture. By the same reckoning you could say monopoly is the same as imperial assault, pushing little plastic pieces around a board.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Mystic Spiral on April 26, 2016, 12:07:34 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 26, 2016, 10:09:44 AM
Yes but with x wing you don't need to be painting them. I think that is part of what people find strange about our hobby, having to paint your own toys. And the Reason x wing sells so well is because its fanbase doesn't need to rely on people that would visit the likes of this forum, miniature enthusiasts, its fanbase may come from the hordes of Star Wars fans out there. Of course I have no evidence to back this up, it's all just conjecture. By the same reckoning you could say monopoly is the same as imperial assault, pushing little plastic pieces around a board.

Reading reviews of the GW board games like Betrayal at Calth, Genestealery One, etc. The primarily board game people seem to quite like the games but are really thrown by the need to build such complex figures. Painting board game figures seems to be a  niche within a niche.

Board games are way more popular than our kind of games, most toy shops and even some WH Smiths sell X Wing. Can't really say the same for "proper" wargames stuff. Throw in a bigger audience plus Star Wars, plus Star Wars with new films coming out no wonder it's outselling poor old 40k.

Purely anecdotal, but a few wargames/rpg shops have told me that most of their business now comes from Magic The Gathering and board games. They always shift a load of X Wing too.

Anyway GW is a model company, not a games company, they said only 20% of their customers play the game. Must be true. ;)

Kind of wonder if their data is built from people like me who use the "I only paint" gambit to avoid the interminable chat and upselling?

J

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on April 26, 2016, 12:46:44 PM
Quote from: The Mystic Spiral on April 26, 2016, 12:07:34 PM
Reading reviews of the GW board games like Betrayal at Calth, Genestealery One, etc. The primarily board game people seem to quite like the games but are really thrown by the need to build such complex figures. Painting board game figures seems to be a  niche within a niche.

That's if they were primarily intended to be board games, rather than a way to get gamers to buy a big chunk of minis. :) I don't doubt that GW want a piece of the boardgame pie, but it's possible they're not sure how to break out of their rut and appeal to boardgamers, rather than their usual captive audience. (Seems like a relatively simple set of research and business decisions, but we're talking about GW here)

Quote
Purely anecdotal, but a few wargames/rpg shops have told me that most of their business now comes from Magic The Gathering and board games. They always shift a load of X Wing too.

I've heard this from different people, myself. That is, different people around the world who talk to shop owners, not shop owners themselves.

Quote
Anyway GW is a model company, not a games company, they said only 20% of their customers play the game. Must be true. ;)

Kind of wonder if their data is built from people like me who use the "I only paint" gambit to avoid the interminable chat and upselling?

J

What data?

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQeX4L0UZiDkx3cLH_LC57lJBeBcGz-5UEwQzEgE0n28YY1fw12Lw)

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 26, 2016, 01:04:35 PM
Quote
I think that is part of what people find strange about our hobby, having to paint your own toys.

Just my experience of course, but I find people tend to understand and appreciate the creative part.
How the game works with the ammount of rules and (gasp) no board gets the most frowns I´ve noticed.
Still, noticing a stigma has been rarer and rarer. Many find it quite interesting as long as you know how to present it.
At least there´s game pieces and clear victory conditions involved.
I don´t make a secret of my miniature hobby, but don´t really advertise the fact that I roleplay.
That, people just do not seem to be able to wrap their heads around.

Of course, I could have interpreted a lot of polite conversation incorrectly (just smile and nod at the crazy person and slowly back away....)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Mystic Spiral on April 26, 2016, 01:14:18 PM
Quote from: Vermis on April 26, 2016, 12:46:44 PM
I've heard this from different people, myself. That is, different people around the world who talk to shop owners, not shop owners themselves.

Heard from the shop, but I know that it's sort of meaningless and very localised. My own experience is to never go in on a saturday cos you can't see a thing for all the MTG players cluttering the shops.

J


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 26, 2016, 02:04:13 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 26, 2016, 08:53:24 AM
To be honest I'm not really sure comparing 40k and x wing is truely relatable.

Well in the sense that you are using then it isn't really comparable. But the OP was talking about just sales figures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 26, 2016, 02:07:13 PM
Quote from: Nord on April 26, 2016, 09:10:20 AM
Those figures are US data, don't think they apply to UK and Europe, which is (to my knowledge) the bulk of GW's market.

Its still pretty substantial that the US market has had such a dramatic shift. The store I work at sells factors more X-Wing than it does 40K. If it wasn't for the per unit price of 40K sets then I doubt the overall sales would be even close. As it is I think we sell more in total dollar sales of X-Wing
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 26, 2016, 02:15:08 PM
Quote from: The Mystic Spiral on April 26, 2016, 12:07:34 PM
Reading reviews of the GW board games like Betrayal at Calth, Genestealery One, etc. The primarily board game people seem to quite like the games but are really thrown by the need to build such complex figures. Painting board game figures seems to be a  niche within a niche.

My suspicion is that the "board games" are only a way for GW to sell discounted miniatures without being seen to be selling discounted miniatures. None of the games are good enough to justify the costs

Quote from: The Mystic Spiral on April 26, 2016, 12:07:34 PM
Board games are way more popular than our kind of games, most toy shops and even some WH Smiths sell X Wing.

Oddly enough one of the big US chain bookstores is now selling and promoting X-Wing. They are even having game nights.

Quote from: The Mystic Spiral on April 26, 2016, 12:07:34 PM
Purely anecdotal, but a few wargames/rpg shops have told me that most of their business now comes from Magic The Gathering and board games. They always shift a load of X Wing too.

Depends on the country you live in. In the US online retailers have really killed the market for games like Warmachine. Hence the initiatives by companies like Privateer Press and Asmodee NA to limit sales to those companies to try to rebuild their brick and mortar sales.

MtG can be a big sales generator but it isn't often the profit generator that other lines can be. Especially in the US where there is a lot more discounting of prices and online competition.

Quote from: The Mystic Spiral on April 26, 2016, 01:14:18 PM
Heard from the shop, but I know that it's sort of meaningless and very localised. My own experience is to never go in on a saturday cos you can't see a thing for all the MTG players cluttering the shops.

Its Friday for our store. And Tuesday. And a small group on Thursday. We do a lot of MtG sales (not sure of the profits it generates) but we still sell a lot more board games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 26, 2016, 02:51:43 PM
I thought it was common knowledge that game stores can't really survive without CCGs.  It's what I've heard from darn near every gaming store I've been to in the past 10 years.  I absolutely understand that miniature wargaming is a tough nut to crack, and a difficult hobby to "get into" regardless of how you try to do it.  It's why I find silly sales procedures even more ridiculous.

You already have a difficult market, why make it more difficult on yourself?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 26, 2016, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: The Mystic Spiral on April 26, 2016, 01:14:18 PM
Heard from the shop, but I know that it's sort of meaningless and very localised. My own experience is to never go in on a saturday cos you can't see a thing for all the MTG players cluttering the shops.

J




I work in a pretty big game store in london and yeah, magic and x wing are two of our most popular games and the things we shift the most of in volume. I think the actual money comes more from magic and big gw releases tho, since x wing is more like a consistent trickle than a flood. ( I have noticed a slight decline in x wing lately, tho it may just be that there hasn't been a major expansion in a while to get people buying, but people are certainly playing it constantly.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 30, 2016, 01:57:20 PM
So Valve is doing a deal to give free Dota 2 items for people who purchase Total War: Warhammer. (http://blog.dota2.com/2016/04/warhammer-comes-to-the-dota-2-workshop/)

Special limited edition ones.

Keep in mind that Dota 2 is one of the big games (especially in Russian etc) and you start to wonder if the new CEO is shaking his head at how Kirby tried to burn the house down when he was being forced out. I mean, 40k's sales were huge after Dawn of War came out. It's probably one of the main reasons 40k was doing so much better than Fantasy in terms of sales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 30, 2016, 04:56:59 PM
T H F Kirby (age 65), non-executive chairman.

He has not gone anywhere...

They seem to be doing some interesting, but I don't think its GW as such but the software companies utilising the IP. they have paid for, they want to make money, regardless of GW behaviour on their investment.

I see good business sense on Valves part here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on April 30, 2016, 05:32:03 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on April 30, 2016, 04:56:59 PM
T H F Kirby (age 65), non-executive chairman.

He has not gone anywhere...

They seem to be doing some interesting, but I don't think its GW as such but the software companies utilising the IP. they have paid for, they want to make money, regardless of GW behaviour on their investment.

I see good business sense on Valves part here.

To be honest, that seems just like a place to shove him for internal politics.

Oh, I have no doubt it's not GW. The point I'm making is that they're gonna sell a LOT of copies to people who don't really know much about Warhammer Fantasy which then drives Warhammer Fantasy sales which...

Doesn't exist anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 30, 2016, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: throwsFireball on April 30, 2016, 05:32:03 PM

Oh, I have no doubt it's not GW. The point I'm making is that they're gonna sell a LOT of copies to people who don't really know much about Warhammer Fantasy which then drives Warhammer Fantasy sales which...

Doesn't exist anymore.

yup completely agree.

But Mr Kirby is exactly where he wants to be, because of the politics he is in control of. If others were able to park him or sideline him, they would not have stopped at keeping him on the board.

Now if the company did  or does actually do very badly, it won't be because of anything he said or did, ever.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 02, 2016, 11:29:11 PM
For the computer gamers here...there will apparently be a "Dawn of War" game announcement tomorrow.  I'd guess this would be Dawn of War III.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on May 02, 2016, 11:45:13 PM
Quote from: Elbows on May 02, 2016, 11:29:11 PM
For the computer gamers here...there will apparently be a "Dawn of War" game announcement tomorrow.  I'd guess this would be Dawn of War III.

Dawn of War III, which will have a single unit on each side with twenty different abilities.

Seriously, though, DoWII's big problem was the divide between singleplayer and multiplayer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 03, 2016, 09:01:27 AM
There's an unboxing of Lost Patrol over at Tabletop Gaming News (http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/i-think-the-compass-is-broke-an-unboxing-of-lost-patrol/)

5 marines, 12 genestealers, 6 page rulebook
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on May 03, 2016, 08:55:07 PM
Quote from: Elbows on May 02, 2016, 11:29:11 PM
For the computer gamers here...there will apparently be a "Dawn of War" game announcement tomorrow.  I'd guess this would be Dawn of War III.

Dawn of War 3 just got announced. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ZgyNoHtjw)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 03, 2016, 11:18:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrXrk1ntTCc

Can't get a read on how this one will be.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on May 04, 2016, 05:28:53 AM
Quote from: Elbows on May 03, 2016, 11:18:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrXrk1ntTCc

Can't get a read on how this one will be.

Damn you can just post the YouTube link. o_o

Let me break it down:

That's pretty much all we know so far.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 04, 2016, 08:37:15 AM
Quote from: throwsFireball on May 04, 2016, 05:28:53 AM

They seem to be implying they're at Epic / Apocalypse scale with a LOT of things fighting on the map.


Are you getting this from some other source then the trailer? Cause I'm getting a "GW is pumping out absurdly large models these days, so lets use them!" vibe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on May 04, 2016, 09:02:46 AM
There's a few screenshots from PC Gamer, too:
(http://i.imgur.com/M6YutQG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/OaF0Ks2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZdX8blN.jpg)

Quote from: YPU on May 04, 2016, 08:37:15 AM
Are you getting this from some other source then the trailer? Cause I'm getting a "GW is pumping out absurdly large models these days, so lets use them!" vibe.

Steam page. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/285190/)
Dawn of War is famous for its epic action and those immense clashes are back - but now they're off-the-scale. Wage war with massive armies across violent volcanic terrain or onboard battlecruisers travelling fast through space.

I mean, I doubt they'll be competing with Supreme Commander but we'll see.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 04, 2016, 02:48:17 PM
Yeah the article said a return to more of the original Dawn of War scale...which really isn't huge, but is not the small 12-man approach from Dawn of War 2.  I've been playing around with Dawn of War Ultimate Apocalypse mod which is a lot larger than either.

As neat as it all looks, I probably won't bother.  I can bet money that units/armies etc. will all become DLC instead of being included in a normal $60 game.  Sega unfortunately went this route with the Total War franchises, and the last Company of Heroes (which was a huge failure compared to the first). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on May 04, 2016, 03:58:02 PM
There's now an unboxing vid on beasts-of-war as well of lost patrol.

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/unboxing-lost-patrol/

GW seems to be sending out review copies. It would seem they are slowly starting to get back into the online community.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 04, 2016, 05:48:15 PM
in that first image, roughly in the middle there is a SM with a hammer jumping in a pose that just cracks me up. Nothing more to add here.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on May 04, 2016, 07:15:29 PM
Quote from: YPU on May 04, 2016, 05:48:15 PM
in that first image, roughly in the middle there is a SM with a hammer jumping in a pose that just cracks me up. Nothing more to add here.  lol

 :o ;D lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 04, 2016, 07:48:49 PM
Quote from: YPU on May 04, 2016, 05:48:15 PM
in that first image, roughly in the middle there is a SM with a hammer jumping in a pose that just cracks me up. Nothing more to add here.  lol

Are you sure he's jumping? Sure his hammer hasn't inexplicably started to float away and he's hanging on for dear life and flailing his legs in confusion...? ;D

Overall, for me, take away the twinkly effects and it looks like they've done a great job of capturing the tabletop game.

... which means they're taking all these fantastic futuristic guns and lining up to shoot eachother from a dozen metres away, over an area the size of a football pitch.

TL;DR: the Verhoeven SST effect.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on May 04, 2016, 08:28:27 PM
Quote from: Vermis on May 04, 2016, 07:48:49 PM
Are you sure he's jumping? Sure his hammer hasn't inexplicably started to float away and he's hanging on for dear life and flailing his legs in confusion...? ;D

Yep, looks like Curious George being carried away by a balloon.   :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on May 06, 2016, 07:26:09 AM
@Hupp n at em

You made me laugh my hole off because it's true  lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on May 07, 2016, 01:32:42 AM
Anyone seen this yet?

https://youtu.be/WhtqT2xhmn0
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 07, 2016, 01:36:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhtqT2xhmn0

Warhammer quest.silver tower.
We have a stormcast, a human warrior, a dwarf, a priest of sigmar and a whole bunch of chaosy gribbles in the teaser vid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 07, 2016, 02:11:40 AM
Four minutes separation...good posting guys.  lol

Also, just take the "s" off of https, and you can insert the video here into the forum.  I would be more excited about this if I thought it was going to be a real genuine replacement for Warhammer Quest.  I highly, HIGHLY suspect this is just using the name to make a new board game. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 07, 2016, 03:34:28 AM
Yep, I hope they have put a lot of groundwork into the rules of this. I may just spring for this. $250 I bet though (NZD)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 07, 2016, 03:38:44 AM
I will be shocked if it is a heavy box with a seriously in depth game.  I very much imagine this will be on the level of Betrayal at Calth, or Deathwatch etc.  Again, I'd love to be proved wrong...but the original was a hell of a lot of game for the money (including a 192 page roleplay book!).  I just don't think the company would put out a game like that.

And I feel if they were going to release a huge serious second edition of Warhammer Quest it would be released with more...fan fare.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on May 07, 2016, 03:39:41 AM
Quote from: Elbows on May 07, 2016, 02:11:40 AM
Also, just take the "s" off of https, and you can insert the video here into the forum.

Most useful - thanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 07, 2016, 03:46:46 AM
Quote from: Elbows on May 07, 2016, 03:38:44 AM
I will be shocked if it is a heavy box with a seriously in depth game.  I very much imagine this will be on the level of Betrayal at Calth, or Deathwatch etc.  Again, I'd love to be proved wrong...but the original was a hell of a lot of game for the money (including a 192 page roleplay book!).  I just don't think the company would put out a game like that.

And I feel if they were going to release a huge serious second edition of Warhammer Quest it would be released with more...fan fare.

Agreed. I'm actually now thinking that the resurrection of specialist games is going to be through small boxed sets that may have little to no expansion to them. We'll see though.
Warhammer Quest Silver Tower sounds more like an expansion to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Queeg on May 07, 2016, 07:27:50 AM
Quote from: Vermis on May 04, 2016, 07:48:49 PM
Overall, for me, take away the twinkly effects and it looks like they've done a great job of capturing the tabletop game.
... which means they're taking all these fantastic futuristic guns and lining up to shoot eachother from a dozen metres away, over an area the size of a football pitch.

TL;DR: the Verhoeven SST effect.

My thoughts exactly, the screenshots are just like the local 4x4 table games of Apocalypse (better painted though).

There is a reason for the very short ranges of the 40k 'verse of course. Physics! Penetration drops off with range obviously due to gravitational and atmospheric drag (amongst other things), but more in the future because of scarce resources and STC construction techniques making all weapons only really effective at point blank ranges ....
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on May 07, 2016, 07:31:02 AM
As much as I love Warhammer Quest, while happy with this news, I'm reluctant to get very excited by this. We have no idea what the actual content will be, I fear it will be only an Execution Hour styled self-contained box with nailed-shut gameplay instead of the glorious open ended expansiveness of the original. Plus it is set in Age of Sigmar, a setting I find as inspiring as moldy toast...
I'm really hoping it's good though (and not too pricey).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 07, 2016, 07:53:53 AM
Quote from: Queeg on May 07, 2016, 07:27:50 AM
My thoughts exactly, the screenshots are just like the local 4x4 table games of Apocalypse (better painted though).

There is a reason for the very short ranges of the 40k 'verse of course. Physics! Penetration drops off with range obviously due to gravitational and atmospheric drag (amongst other things), but more in the future because of scarce resources and STC construction techniques making all weapons only really effective at point blank ranges ....
 

Yes. Exactly.

That's why  a big Hammer or Sword are just as effective a weapon in futuristic apocalyptic combat as any ranged weapon - everything is a point blank weapon...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on May 07, 2016, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: nic-e on May 07, 2016, 01:36:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhtqT2xhmn0

Warhammer quest.silver tower.
We have a stormcast, a human warrior, a dwarf, a priest of sigmar and a whole bunch of chaosy gribbles in the teaser vid.


Man, the Chaos guys look pretty cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: throwsFireball on May 07, 2016, 11:10:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c3F3Pk_qjY

GW is just throwing their IP away.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on May 07, 2016, 11:36:14 AM
I really don't know what to make of the warhammer quest AoS box.
I haven't played the origional but I know it was pretty indebt and open.

If this offers the same, with possibilies to play elves, dwarves and other heroes as well as add different monsters in the mix.

I suppose the things I don't like are easily replaced (Sigmarine exchanged for a generic paladin type model.)
Definitly not on my short list, but I'll be watching....

And decide if I have room for another dungeoncrawl.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on May 07, 2016, 11:55:29 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on May 07, 2016, 11:36:14 AM
I really don't know what to make of the warhammer quest AoS box.
I haven't played the origional but I know it was pretty indebt and open.

If this offers the same, with possibilies to play elves, dwarves and other heroes as well as add different monsters in the mix.

I suppose the things I don't like are easily replaced (Sigmarine exchanged for a generic paladin type model.)
Definitly not on my short list, but I'll be watching....

And decide if I have room for another dungeoncrawl.

This is just a hunch bit I reckon it will be WQ in name only.  Just as Lost Patrol wasn't a reissue of that game but a new thing with a similar theme. It'll be a simple streamlined game more in line rules wise with the old game Mighty Warriors.

Still, the minis will be nice and people will buy it anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyBrush on May 07, 2016, 12:44:03 PM
Sigmarines in my warhammer quest? ??? :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 07, 2016, 01:04:36 PM
I hope they improve the combat rules! WQ is pretty rubbish in that regard. It's not much fun in a four player game to finally get your turn, roll one dice and miss the attack. Turn over.

If in a game all you'll get to do for a turn is attack, you'll need a fun combat system. Even the bloated Age of Sigmar combat system would give a more enjoyable game. 3 rounds of (lots of) dice rolling for a mass combat game is pretty daft, but for WQ it would add a bit of suspense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 07, 2016, 01:56:17 PM
I agree, while I love WHQ it was the party development/character development and the way they managed dungeons which was great - not the fighting (heck even multiple wounds for everything from a Goblin and up was a bit silly).  I could see people scooping it up if it has:

A) a ton of miniatures
B) WHQ style room cards (particularly if you can use them with the original WHQ)
C) if it's a full on re-launch of the hugely in depth full WHQ experience
D) stupidly cheap for the miniatures (ie. includes a bunch of large Daemons or new Daemons)

The title for the box itself makes the decision for me.  The fact that Silver Tower is the main word with Warhammer Quest shrunk above indicates it's a "WHQ-esque" game and not Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower (ie. a proper expansion or relaunch).  Just my guess.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 07, 2016, 10:22:03 PM
Can't see "D" happening I'm afraid to say. Cheap compared to GW standards, yes, but not stupidly cheap. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Queeg on May 07, 2016, 10:39:11 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on May 07, 2016, 01:04:36 PM
I hope they improve the combat rules! WQ is pretty rubbish in that regard. It's not much fun in a four player game to finally get your turn, roll one dice and miss the attack. Turn over.


Oddly enough we found it a great social game. My brother and his girlfriend, the wife and brother in law used to have a WQ game every month or so for alooong time ...... of course it was a loooong time ago too :)

And we added a penalty to the rolling of a "1" by having to nip scull a zambucca .... great game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 07, 2016, 10:47:30 PM
 lol awesome rule. To be honest I'm not surprised it isn't in the AoS rules considering some of the strange things they have in there... Then again target market...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 07, 2016, 11:38:36 PM
Quote from: Queeg on May 07, 2016, 10:39:11 PM
Oddly enough we found it a great social game. My brother and his girlfriend, the wife and brother in law used to have a WQ game every month or so for alooong time ...... of course it was a loooong time ago too :)

And we added a penalty to the rolling of a "1" by having to nip scull a zambucca .... great game.

We always found having a full round of missing during heroquest to be amazingly funny, and we still do.Even more so now actually, since we have the advanced adult vocabulary needed to properly mock the person rolling.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on May 11, 2016, 03:47:29 AM
There is a lot of info here: http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2016/05/warhammer-quest-pics-and-release.html

And some good pics here: http://imgur.com/a/8J7y5

There is an official AoS bookface page, where they have posted studio pics of all the heroes: https://www.facebook.com/GWWarhammerAgeofSigmar/

Looks like retail will be $150USD for 51 miniatures... roughly $3 each on average is a pretty decent price by GW standards.  Looking forward to this release! I will likely pick this up, just maybe not right away.  I have a feeling next year's earnings report for GW will be quite good. It seems like all these boxed sets are selling like hotcakes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 11, 2016, 06:15:01 AM
Quote from: Timbor on May 11, 2016, 03:47:29 AM
There is a lot of info here: http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2016/05/warhammer-quest-pics-and-release.html

And some good pics here: http://imgur.com/a/8J7y5

There is an official AoS bookface page, where they have posted studio pics of all the heroes: https://www.facebook.com/GWWarhammerAgeofSigmar/

Looks like retail will be $150USD for 51 miniatures... roughly $3 each on average is a pretty decent price by GW standards.  Looking forward to this release! I will likely pick this up, just maybe not right away.  I have a feeling next year's earnings report for GW will be quite good. It seems like all these boxed sets are selling like hotcakes.

They also seem to be keeping these game in stock and not having them limited edition which is a bonus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 11, 2016, 03:36:56 PM
Well, I'm probably out.  I do think people are going to scoop this up though for the figures.  The price is probably a good bit cheaper than buying up Chaos stuff in boxes ---- not to mention if they're smart several of the heroes etc. will be proprietary sculpts.  Sad to see the board tiles don't use doorways and they're super-extreme Tzeentch.  I'll wait and see what the other side of the cards are like (only 13 tiles is pretty shallow, but they're double-sided).

Over-the-top AoS stuff and very limited cross-over for normal dungeon crawls is probably going to keep me away.  Most notably I didn't see anything about a role-play book in the contents listing.

Sadly, it is pretty much exactly what I was expecting.  Ie. not a whole lot.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 11, 2016, 04:13:58 PM
At least the mechanics look more interesting than the original. Seems to be some kind of Saga-esque resource management with dice rolled allowing certain actions and the dice/action pool being reduced by wounds and stuns.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on May 11, 2016, 04:51:10 PM
I just saw a rumour that the "Warhammer Quest" boxed game and expansions will also be sold in other retail outlets just like the "Battle for Vedros" 40k starter sets to draw in new kids. I could see that being successful... though the price point on Warhammer Quest is a bit higher...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Redmao on May 11, 2016, 07:00:38 PM
Perhaps GW is trying to get in touch with those who played Heroquest as kids and haven't set foot in a hobby stores in ages.
Nostalgic parents maybe?

The price point seems too high to get kids into the hobby.
Do kids still play board games these days?
I don't think that parents will shell $150 for a board game. Specially one that comes with unassembled miniatures.

Maybe if they get hooked on miniature gaming through Battle of Vedros, they might be tempted to try other games.
Maybe GW could do a fantasy line based on BoV to reach a younger audience instead of a big expansive box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on May 11, 2016, 08:45:41 PM
I dunno... let's not forget that the GW target demographic is not the super-thrifty. Also, considering the amount parents shell out for video games (I remember friends who would have shelves filled with dozens of video games at $50 each...), they may feel better investing in something that provides more tangible results (ie imaginative and artistic skills) than simply pushing buttons on a controller. I know I would with my kids (though I admit my opinion is skewed towards tabletop games). Besides, how many hours does the average video gaming teenager spend on most games before they get bored and want a new one? Don't most console games nowadays have only like 10 hours of playtime?

But who knows... maybe GW will make some smaller sized fantasy starter sets. There is talk of them continuing with the WQ line, so they could make addons or quickstart games or something. With all the GW IP being used in video games and mainstream media, I would hope that at worst they could recoup their investment in such an idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Queeg on May 11, 2016, 10:03:03 PM
Interesting set. I'm old school though and kinda miss the rats, mummys and skeletons.

Also, it was hard enough getting the original minis all painted for a game. there's no way the average player is getting those (display orientated) minis painted to a standard anywhere near what GW is showing. Don't get me wrong, when painted to cmon standard they look very enticing. I could probably paint them (as could many here) to that standard if I spent enough time on them, but heck, if I was going to spend that amount of time there's soooooo many other things I'd rather invest the bench time in.

Can't help thinking that with the "these are the most detailed minis ever released in a boxed game" thing that they're kinda missing the point of a fun, beer'n'zambucca boxed game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 12, 2016, 12:34:43 AM
I got to have a rummage through the store copy today.I can't say much but i can say i will be buying it, it looks fun and the rules seem nice. the pictures don't do the figures justice, and the familiars are a great resculpting of the classic chaos familiar figures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 12, 2016, 09:05:52 AM
This boardgame ties in nicely with the release date of warhammer: total war. I wonder if the is coincidence or not. I'm keen on seeng what this has to offer. I bought WQ old school for pretty cheap a while back, minus a few minis. Might just bring that out to play with my son for a bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on May 13, 2016, 10:04:23 PM
The familiars look good. Not fussed about the rest of it tho.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 13, 2016, 10:19:57 PM
Quote from: Queeg on May 11, 2016, 10:03:03 PM
Interesting set. I'm old school though and kinda miss the rats, mummys and skeletons.

Also, it was hard enough getting the original minis all painted for a game. there's no way the average player is getting those (display orientated) minis painted to a standard anywhere near what GW is showing. Don't get me wrong, when painted to cmon standard they look very enticing. I could probably paint them (as could many here) to that standard if I spent enough time on them, but heck, if I was going to spend that amount of time there's soooooo many other things I'd rather invest the bench time in.

Can't help thinking that with the "these are the most detailed minis ever released in a boxed game" thing that they're kinda missing the point of a fun, beer'n'zambucca boxed game.

This is my overwhelming issue with a lot of the GW miniatures line.  While they have a handful of deeply talented painters, the vast majority of 12-14 year olds will never make any use of the wildly over-detailed and complex miniatures they flood the market with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Queeg on May 13, 2016, 10:26:03 PM
Quote from: Elbows on May 13, 2016, 10:19:57 PM
This is my overwhelming issue with a lot of the GW miniatures line.  While they have a handful of deeply talented painters, the vast majority of 12-14 year olds will never make any use of the wildly over-detailed and complex miniatures they flood the market with.

It's quite ironic that I feel that these minis are toooo detailed for their purpose as in recent times I've been really disappointed with the style of their minis, mainly in 40k. I felt the sculpting standard had either been dumbed down deliberately or by the newer sculptors they'd replaced the old guard with after the "get with the new programme or get out purge".



 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on May 14, 2016, 01:32:03 AM
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d170/pauljamesog/WIP/larryleadhead11.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on May 14, 2016, 02:14:01 AM
@Queeg

I agree that the problem is in the details.  The fetishes and gew-gaws that typically festoon the average GW models don't strike me as detail or embellishment but a maddening manner of trademarking;  They seem to intend them to look too foolish but for any purpose apart from GW games.

What makes so many models I pick up attractive is their versatility.  They can blur the lines between genres and systems and have far more utility than have to even discuss relative pricing.  The only situation I couldn't see using them would be a GW store because the lack of tacky "tells" would make it clear they were not GW models.

Looking ahead the only GW models I can see purchasing within the next year remains the Blood Bowl renewal because they are nice models and fantasy football players are a niche purchase as is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on May 14, 2016, 09:01:06 AM
I like em, so there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on May 14, 2016, 09:09:00 AM
Quote
I agree that the problem is in the details.  The fetishes and gew-gaws that typically festoon the average GW models don't strike me as detail or embellishment but a maddening manner of trademarking;  They seem to intend them to look too foolish but for any purpose apart from GW games.

This is true of their scenery too, any potential wargamers are put off by the emphasis on skulls......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on May 14, 2016, 09:21:42 AM
The FLGS here, less than 150 yards from the GW store, has it down as a pre-order, with added goodies, for £72.  I was, however, hoping for a new WHQ, not an AoS add-on, no sale here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 14, 2016, 11:12:31 AM
I was hoping not to have to pay $315 NZD, no sale here either  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 14, 2016, 11:45:09 AM
They're display pieces. Lovely and ornate and they no doubt paint up very nicely. Nowt wrong with that really, but since they're being sold as part of a boardgame, perhaps releasing gaming pieces would have been more appropriate.

EDIT: And if that sounds a little churlish, I would say the price seems pretty reasonable given the content, if you're just looking to get the models and nothing else. Some positive changes have happened at GW of late, not least of which seems to be these (relatively) inexpensive boxed sets for those looking to pick up a bundle of models at well below RRP.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 14, 2016, 04:31:15 PM
And in other news...

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13227653_245766209122494_1215856982091364054_o.jpg)


'Oh' and 'dear'! These are a bit of a let down to be honest after all the recent releases. If Mantic were releasing these I wouldn't be surpised, but GW/FW!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 14, 2016, 05:09:16 PM
I've never been a huge Blood Bowl fan, but those are definitely not...jaw-dropping.  Odd too that the placard is "Forge World".  Is that any indication of a non-GW mainstream release?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 14, 2016, 07:36:12 PM
These are starter kit figures,the equivalent of push fit space marines. They're basic play from the box minis and j imagine when the team start working on the fun stuff we'll see some cool players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 14, 2016, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 14, 2016, 07:36:12 PM
These are starter kit figures,the equivalent of push fit space marines. They're basic play from the box minis and j imagine when the team start working on the fun stuff we'll see some cool players.

A real step back then in comparison to what we're getting with WQ and previous releases like Deathwatch and Betrayal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Queeg on May 14, 2016, 10:34:48 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on May 14, 2016, 04:31:15 PM
And in other news...

And we go from the sublime to the ....... a bit less than sublime, in the blink of n eye.

Geee, I know I must be sounding hard to please. Love the HQuest figs, some of the better stuff they've put out, just a bit, pointy maybe and difficult to paint for the intended market.

These are the polar opposite. Definitely board game cheapies but quick and easy to paint. Maybe the rest of the team is better, and the other races not yet seen. Still, to give them credit it must be hard to design a believable fantasy footballer ......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on May 14, 2016, 10:41:29 PM
There are some pics online from the warhammer fest event here:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/05/warhammer-fest-2016-blood-bowl-sighting.html

This one shows a bit more:

(http://cdn.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Blood-Bowl-Warhammer-Fest-1-768x576.jpg)

I think the sculpts look decent and nice to paint, if not a bit static for the humans.  The orcs look pretty cool.  Will be nicer to see them as the project nears completion though.  I never really got into Blood Bowl, but I loved the computer game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 14, 2016, 10:56:22 PM
I know the purpose of the game is a good bash 'em up but those punch spikes don't look conducive to holding the ball.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on May 14, 2016, 11:05:47 PM
They do look rather static, compared to everything else. Maybe they are meant to evoke some nostalgia, or maybe the designers just (ahem) dropped the ball. There's much nicer stuff around, Black Scorpion make some great fantasy ball stuff.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on May 14, 2016, 11:48:11 PM
They look good to me. If they're linemen, which I'm assuming they are, then they're just right. I'm not certain I get the complaint about them being "static" to be honest. Typically the "dancing around" Blood Bowl miniatures were always the worst ones - some of the various Elf ones that are guilty of that still make me shudder. The Thrower here, however, looks just right, although I will admit that compared to the wonderful metal human team that was the last team GW did before Blood Bowl stopped being supported, they do lack character. What does worry me is the "Forge World" sign. What does this mean for the game/figures, I wonder?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 15, 2016, 04:08:09 AM
If they were a bit more dynamic and lost the "all spikes and blades on my hands" nonsense I'd be a bit more appreciative.  But, as mentioned, the 3rd parties have really provided a shed-load of BB alternative teams.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on May 15, 2016, 06:20:35 AM
I like them and will be picking up a set.  While they are miniatures they are also playing pieces and the design of a lineman has to be innocuous to distinguish them from their positional team mates at a glance.  If all the players are wonky it's just a pain in the ass to keep track of.

The tacky accoutrements honestly sell me more on the models.  It's a return to a very silly game I loved when I was a kid back in the 80s.  Fantasy football isn't serious business  lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on May 15, 2016, 10:47:41 AM
Hand spikes and blades are the BB equivalent of Skullz.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on May 15, 2016, 11:34:36 AM
A Wolverine team?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 15, 2016, 11:56:55 AM
I quite like them. I think they're gaming pieces, which is right.

The orcs, however ... yeesh ... 'oy' even ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vindice on May 15, 2016, 01:45:16 PM
In other, other news, the Lord of the Rings stuff looks bloomin' gorgeous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: M Blakey on May 15, 2016, 02:02:42 PM
Quote from: Vindice on May 15, 2016, 01:45:16 PM
In other, other news, the Lord of the Rings stuff looks bloomin' gorgeous.

What stuffs that? Do tell
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 15, 2016, 02:20:13 PM
The more of a grognard I become, the more I appreciate Larry Leadhead.

And it might be the blue colour of whatever-material-that-is, but the BB minis look like a throwback to late-90's plastics like genestealers. Gaming pieces they might be, but with a Forge World label, what price gaming pieces?

Quote from: Nord on May 14, 2016, 09:01:06 AM
I like em, so there.

(http://urbanbohemian.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/body_snatchers.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: olyreed on May 15, 2016, 05:45:12 PM
These photos were taken from theonering forum. Looks like a new book and discontinued models being released, the scouring of the shire was one box set on show. I am glad they are continuing with the lotr stuff as I like the rule book and minis but never got round to collecting until recently
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 15, 2016, 05:54:33 PM
Sadly it all looks like Finecast for the LOTR stuff unless that's just for sculpts/prototypes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: M Blakey on May 15, 2016, 05:56:52 PM
Not a huge fan of what GW done to lotr but hell they look very nice!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 15, 2016, 05:57:19 PM
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/05/adeptus-titanicus-the-return-of-epic-latest.html (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/05/adeptus-titanicus-the-return-of-epic-latest.html)

Word on the web is Epic will return... in 8mm....  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on May 15, 2016, 07:23:05 PM
I like that Lake Town house.
Now, lets see the price point for it.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 15, 2016, 08:17:52 PM
There is no LotR game anymore.

Now it's just Warhammer with slightly different costumes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: olyreed on May 15, 2016, 10:16:40 PM
The lake town stuff is apparently going to be in plastic, they are also rereleasing the ruins of Osgiliath set as well
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: M Blakey on May 15, 2016, 10:20:03 PM
Quote from: olyreed on May 15, 2016, 10:16:40 PM
they are also rereleasing the ruins of Osgiliath set as well

That's great news as they've been on ebay for £40+
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 15, 2016, 11:15:11 PM
Quote from: M Blakey on May 15, 2016, 10:20:03 PM
That's great news as they've been on ebay for £40+

Are we sure they aren't going to cost that or more?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: M Blakey on May 16, 2016, 06:13:59 AM
Quote from: Argonor on May 15, 2016, 11:15:11 PM
Are we sure they aren't going to cost that or more?

You do make a very good point lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 16, 2016, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: YPU on May 15, 2016, 05:57:19 PM
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/05/adeptus-titanicus-the-return-of-epic-latest.html (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/05/adeptus-titanicus-the-return-of-epic-latest.html)

Word on the web is Epic will return... in 8mm....  o_o


I genuinely despair sometimes at the thought processes at GW

"what are the common micro scales"

"well, there's some 2mm, loads of 6mm, and some 10mm"

"Hmm, loads of choice there. I know, let's go for 8mm"

"8mm, why do you say that?"

"well, 2 + 6 = 8 and 10 - 2 = 8, so 8 will work with everything there"

"brilliant, that's why you're the boss. This is even better than your Finecast idea :o"

So we get infantry that can't be used with anything, a few tanks that may work, but lots that won't - and bugger all that fits with their own previous ranges.

Still, on the bright side, they have just saved me a bunch of money, because I would have picked up some of the stuff had they reissued it in 6mm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on May 16, 2016, 03:29:06 PM
Quote
The scale will be 8mm – They decided on this scale after 3D printing a Marine, Dread, Leman Russ, Warlord and a Mastodon in three different scales. 8mm was deemed the best as you could see the details to the point of telling different armour marks apart but didn’t make the Titans too big.

Apparently. Makes sense!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on May 16, 2016, 03:34:29 PM
Apparently they have seen GHQ quality in 6mm, nor what can be achieved with better sculptors.

It's a bust for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 16, 2016, 03:44:05 PM
Seems GW can even introduce scale creep to 6mm...

Shame.

Glad I already have enough 6mm original stuff.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 16, 2016, 04:08:13 PM
I was put off when they said that Epic will be via Forgeworld...if they try to do 8mm infantry in resin, I'll never play the damn game.  lol  Actually...I won't play full-stop if everything in the game line will be Forgeworld resin.  Expensive and a pain to work with.  No thanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 16, 2016, 08:43:10 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13248395_1215554135130731_4043503159490596165_o.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Mystic Spiral on May 16, 2016, 09:12:25 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on May 16, 2016, 08:43:10 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13248395_1215554135130731_4043503159490596165_o.jpg)

Where did you find that?

When's it for?

Only a lot excited.

J
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 16, 2016, 09:14:46 PM
Posted by warhammer world on facebook. Available for a limited time.
they must have either taken damn good care of the molds or the masters to still have them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 16, 2016, 09:16:25 PM
Yeah, I think it's only at Warhammer World.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Mystic Spiral on May 16, 2016, 09:25:26 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 16, 2016, 09:14:46 PM
Posted by warhammer world on facebook. Available for a limited time.
they must have either taken damn good care of the molds or the masters to still have them.

Thanks.

It's close to partizan. Useful... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on May 16, 2016, 10:52:51 PM
Quote from: Argonor on May 15, 2016, 11:15:11 PM
Are we sure they aren't going to cost that or more?

They were selling them at fest for £18.

Come on guys, there is some good news coming out of GW for a change and you still bash them.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Supercollider on May 16, 2016, 11:00:28 PM
Wonder if there's a way to get these in the US?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on May 17, 2016, 12:29:41 AM
Quote from: Nord on May 16, 2016, 10:52:51 PM
They were selling them at fest for £18.

Come on guys, there is some good news coming out of GW for a change and you still bash them.  :?

Well, this is the GW have-a-bash thread!  lol

They could be on for £10 and there would SOME reason to bash GW!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on May 17, 2016, 01:34:23 AM
Those were pretty cool models.  I still have most of them from back in the day so whatever they are charging for them is immaterial to me.  The fact that they are putting them out there makes me feel pretty good high price tag or no.  Blood Bowl was a brilliant game and leading up to a reboot I hope they raise some flags and share it with some new players. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 17, 2016, 10:54:41 AM
Quote from: Nord on May 16, 2016, 10:52:51 PM
They were selling them at fest for £18.

Come on guys, there is some good news coming out of GW for a change and you still bash them.  :?

No, I just asked a reasonable question, as everything they have been re-releasing over the last decade seems to be packaged with fewer parts at a higher price - and I don't even know what 'fest' is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: M Blakey on May 17, 2016, 10:58:07 AM
Argonor does make a good point I rembered when the LOTR plastics were 24 for £12 now there 12 for £15.

Fingers crossed not a huge price hike!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on May 20, 2016, 03:25:43 AM
Looks like the My Hero app is now live for Silver Tower.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on May 20, 2016, 01:20:43 PM
Quote from: M Blakey on May 17, 2016, 10:58:07 AM
Argonor does make a good point I rembered when the LOTR plastics were 24 for £12 now there 12 for £15.

Fingers crossed not a huge price hike!

Or 1 to 3 figures for £15... The Hobbit stuff is realllly expensive :(
I curious if the Forge World Lotr stuff will cost even more or not.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on May 21, 2016, 02:43:39 AM
Quote from: beefcake on May 14, 2016, 11:12:31 AM
I was hoping not to have to pay $315 NZD, no sale here either  lol

Just bought a copy for AU$189 on ebay, if that helps?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on May 21, 2016, 03:24:50 AM
Quote from: Lawful Evil on May 21, 2016, 02:43:39 AM
Just bought a copy for AU$189 on ebay, if that helps?

And they call that a "deal"!

Wow. Still obscene, isn't it? I guess much better than what GW is charging, but my word...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 21, 2016, 06:14:32 AM
Quote from: Lawful Evil on May 21, 2016, 02:43:39 AM
Just bought a copy for AU$189 on ebay, if that helps?

lol. I feel so much better now ;) Still too expensive for me.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 21, 2016, 06:17:40 AM
I see they are advertising the first of the "expansion packs"
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Warhammer-Quest-Mighty-Heroes
Basically already available plastics repackaged with some extra rules (for those interested in the ridiculous NZ price, $115 for four heroes).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 21, 2016, 03:27:47 PM
Not yet available in the U.S. but it doesn't surprise me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on May 21, 2016, 04:23:54 PM
The insanity continues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 21, 2016, 06:50:59 PM
If you missed the disappointment last time...

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13227087_1618814961772470_4570545795454479659_n.jpg?oh=2f0c9913471c7e69b082c74f45689448&oe=57DA9299)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on May 21, 2016, 08:31:52 PM
And it is really not a great book, badly edited, so why bother?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 22, 2016, 01:27:18 PM
And the link from FB to the webstore is 404'd and has been since it was posted.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on May 23, 2016, 08:58:54 PM
Games Workshop will be releasing plastic scenic bases, decoration bits, containers, barrels and crates! Looking interesting except for the bolt gun turrets on the armored containers, really guns on containers? Pictures compiled here http://wargameterrain.blogspot.be/2016/05/games-workshop-upcoming-plastic.html?m=1 (http://wargameterrain.blogspot.be/2016/05/games-workshop-upcoming-plastic.html?m=1)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 23, 2016, 09:43:06 PM
Guns on containers. I was thinking if they had some swing arm they could work for some q-ship or something, but no, they are permanent fixtures meaning you can't even stack them. I'm sure you can build them without the guns but man this is stupid. I mean there are plenty of weapon systems hidden in containers out there, entire missile launch installation in a container and all that, but bolting a pair of bolsters to the top.  lol  Really feels like some horrible executive decision. Anything they produce must have at least 2 out of three of guns, skulls or spikes.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 23, 2016, 10:09:37 PM
Too much good terrain available elsewhere. I did chuckle at the gothic arches...on the freight containers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 24, 2016, 04:48:29 AM
 lol I thought you were going to wait until the modders had gone to town on it.
Looking forward to the report though. I'm quite interested in it myself, just put Medieval 2 back on the computer and am playing through the Third Age (LOTR) mod. Should be fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: redeaston on May 24, 2016, 11:49:17 AM
Got mine through steam so its installed and ready to go. I will have a quick play tonight but wont have time for a proper go until the weekend.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on May 24, 2016, 12:06:13 PM
Anyone seen Games Workshops poor attempt to cash in on the Games release?

(https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Warhammer?categoryId=cat440002a-flat&sorting=rec&qty=12&Nu=product.repositoryId&N=102330+4294965125&view=table&_requestid=3299923)

I don't know why but it actually hit a nerve. They unnecessarily killed off the Old World to replace it solely with AoS, they then have all these big games out, only its set in the Old World, and its like they've suddenly thought: "Oh, we could have cashed in on that!" and temporarily brought back stuff they'd discontinued to get a few more sales in.

When the Total War Facebook page provided a link to the aforementioned page the comments were awash with disappointment.

Since the Total War: Warhammer franchise will remain in development for the next ten years, I have a glimmer of hope that GW will at least bring the Old World back in some form. Whether it be through a Specialist Games outlet or even just allow the Old World and AoS to exist in tandem.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 24, 2016, 02:33:18 PM
Oddly...Medieval II was much better graphically then many sequels up until Shogun II.  Rome II was a god damned shame.  While I may pick this up, it won't be until a sale.  I haven't bothered with any Total War content after how bad Rome II was, and I may not even bother with this one.  The company went on a very stupid DLC path, paying for things like single units, graphical upgrades, etc.  Absolutely a garbage company policy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on May 24, 2016, 03:46:27 PM
Quote from: Elbows on May 24, 2016, 02:33:18 PM
Oddly...Medieval II was much better graphically then many sequels up until Shogun II.  Rome II was a god damned shame.  While I may pick this up, it won't be until a sale.  I haven't bothered with any Total War content after how bad Rome II was, and I may not even bother with this one.  The company went on a very stupid DLC path, paying for things like single units, graphical upgrades, etc.  Absolutely a garbage company policy.


Therefore they seem a great match for GW....lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 24, 2016, 04:09:05 PM
Preeeettty much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 24, 2016, 07:15:02 PM
Quote from: Brummie on May 24, 2016, 12:06:13 PM
Anyone seen Games Workshops poor attempt to cash in on the Games release?

No. And still haven't, thanks to broken image links.  :P

Quote
When the Total War Facebook page provided a link to the aforementioned page the comments were awash with disappointment.

From Warhammer players sore at the disappearance of the old world, or Total War players who thought 'those are weak'?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on May 24, 2016, 09:14:15 PM
Quote from: Scurv on May 24, 2016, 06:31:48 PM
In the very quick battle I played of warhammer total warhaming it quickly devolved into a vast rugger scrum....

I've no idea what that means but I'm gonna bet it's not a compliment.   ;D

But yeah, I'm also in the boat of "no more Total War games" since they went on to riddle their games with DLC.
Plenty of better strategy games around to pick from.

Quote from: Brummie on May 24, 2016, 12:06:13 PM
Anyone seen Games Workshops poor attempt to cash in on the Games release?

The image link is broken somehow, it shows up when I quote you but not on your actual message, for me at least.
I did take a look though and that's just sad.  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on May 25, 2016, 01:24:40 AM
Quote from: Scurv on May 25, 2016, 01:15:52 AM
Also half the races are missing! Where are the elves and lizard men?

Not 100% sure but I think at some point they stated the game's going to be divided in 3 separate parts, each with their own races.
Sooooo... DLC.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 25, 2016, 05:57:59 AM
Good to know. i'll thrash lotr for a while and get this when the price comes down around $20, a few years then
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on May 26, 2016, 02:12:06 AM
Quote from: Scurv on May 25, 2016, 01:15:52 AM
well I have discovered a few things. It auto cripples the graphics to run better if you demand too much from it.

My computer which is set up for making movie special effects struggles with this game unlike any other. Every other game I just hit maximal quality graphics and it delivers. Not a good sign of optimisation. Especially when it makes the graphics worse than games that are over a decade old....

Also half the races are missing! Where are the elves and lizard men?



Sounds typical of the recent Total War releases.  Rome 2 is awful, and a huge waste of money.  And expect to spend an additional $10 for the elves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on May 26, 2016, 10:50:10 AM
Let's see if this image works.

(https://gallery.mailchimp.com/136827b843bb2808e5ae537dd/images/0152a865-43ca-4bc0-b21f-14c77154183a.jpg)

(https://gallery.mailchimp.com/136827b843bb2808e5ae537dd/images/3083a9ab-12fa-4214-ae53-5c144cca26ea.jpg)

(https://gallery.mailchimp.com/136827b843bb2808e5ae537dd/images/9c815511-2abe-467d-855d-b5ddd87d9fad.jpg)

Got a bit of a chuckle from it. No offence intended to folk who play 40K, and I know it's tongue-in-cheek marketing, but when I think 'discerning gamer', I think of someone wearing, and playing... something else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 26, 2016, 03:05:23 PM
Yep, that's an odd choice of words.  I'd be fine with "Storm into battle with this t-shirt!" kind of stuff, but when I read "discerning gamer" it brings to mind a well dressed chap with a stylish leather messenger bag, a small unobnoxious embedded design in a corner etc.  A kind of subdued but excellent quality item...

Heck, I wouldn't mind some "wargaming for adults" style swag. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on May 26, 2016, 06:02:23 PM
Well. truth be told, if I was still in the GW games as I used to be, I'd be all over this.
I do understand that people who are enthusiastic about the games will want this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on May 26, 2016, 07:06:36 PM
I sort of like the shirt with all the weapons on it I could see myself wearing that at a gaming event.
But then again it has not moved me to bother finding out the price. But knowing GW it is probably horrendous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 26, 2016, 08:23:24 PM
I hadn't read the center t-shirt...and I did chuckle a little.  Standard issue t-shirt. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on May 27, 2016, 02:23:33 AM
Because GW graphics and motifs are the highest form of fashion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on May 27, 2016, 05:48:13 AM
"stylish"  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on May 27, 2016, 06:28:18 AM
Well it's a style...ish....  ;)
And technically they're not wrong, the line is for wargamers able to discern things, as a blind wargamer would have no use for the graphic design printed on these shirts.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 27, 2016, 09:00:48 AM
Quote from: Elbows on May 26, 2016, 08:23:24 PM
I hadn't read the center t-shirt...and I did chuckle a little.  Standard issue t-shirt. 

Same here, I think I'll skip nitpicking exact word choice for their advertisement for once even.

They have a strong brand and recognizable iconography, a cloths brand is pretty much par for the course these days and TBH I would have worn it back when I still was into GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on May 31, 2016, 10:21:12 AM
I've had a chance to play Total War: Warhammer for a bit.

Thus far I quite like it. Its definitely a major improvement on the last two in the series. There are now more battles than previous games which generally revolved around fighting over towns/villages and rarely ever meeting inbetween (the A.I in Rome 2 used to flee at the first sight of open battle even if such an event was the ONLY WAY it could keep its settlements from being rushed).

Sieges are a bit more simplistic and tend towards the attacker trying to aggressively take the walls in some sort of frontal charge (or you can just bomb the crap out of said walls, or both!) whilst the defender arguably just has to hold various pull back positions. Its pretty linear.

All the Races are pretty unique in terms of play style. I've only played Empire thoroughly thus far, but Empire is more of a political animal with no clear military specialty; they have a bit of everything and for lower end troop types, a lot of it. The events for Empire are more involved IMO than say other races, as you are constantly having to deal with dodgy Elector Counts until you manage to unify the Empire in its entirety; warring with them is sometimes unavoidable, but best kept to a minimum as it makes you unpopular, best way build up brownie points back up is to wander of and murder Chaos/Orcs/Undead etc.

Orcs: Screw economy and smash shit; always attack, even when you have technically attacked them, 'Big Uns' are a bitch to kill, but they break easily though they have a higher chance to reform if not pursued. Very little in terms of infrastructure/tech and you need to fight regularly to keep them happy.
Dwarves: Very defense heavy. Get artillery quite early on in the game, can get bonuses when fighting Orcs, very short sweet tech trees.
Undead: Not played them yet but they seem really weak early in game. Its practically the case with these guys that if it weren't for the Elector counts fighting each other they'd probably get wiped out pretty quickly. Also a surefire way of defeating them is to kill their hero. Hero dies; the army collapses faster than all the rest do.

As for the missing races, the only races missing thus far that was a bit eyebrow raising was the Wood Elves, Beastmen and Skaven. Considering they live within the actual map space they could/should be included. My bets are Wood Elves will be a paid DLC (Bretonnia will be free DLC but they are already on the map) but Skaven may not appear until the next game along.

As for Beastmen, one can hope but I don't know how they'd fit them into the game per say. Another Nomadic force would be great, but another CHAOS force wouldn't, at least not in its current state.

Things I dislike:
Chaos becomes too much of an issue far too early on in the game. By turn 60, the Chaos Warriors and the Varg/Skraeling tribes just go berserk and start throwing out huge hordes that are just impossible game wise (pretty much you can hope to have one fully kitted out Army for each province you control AND have a decent income, you can squeeze in 2 per province but without a lot of trade agreements this is very hard). When the Chaos event starts out, the Chaos Warriors have two half armies that are ironically quite easy to beat so long as you figure a way to knock out their hell cannons early in a fight. As for the Varg/Skraelings they both, despite only owning a single province each have FIVE fully kitted out armies.

This comes as a bit of a game breaker for me, 1-2 armies per Chaos faction would be hard enough, but nigh 5 is just borderline impossible to repulse. Worse still is if you DO beat Chaos Warriors, 20 turns after this Archaeon and another wave arrives, and Archaeon is practically invincible.

Of course, if you beat Chaos Warriors first but not the Chaos Tribes, you may find yourself locked in a vicious war with no time to recover until the next wave of Spikey muppets arrive. Presumably if you beat this second wave, a third arrives and so on, so you will spend most of the game worrying about Chaos, rather than having a chance to fight everybody else and explore the game.

Ultimately I get the impression you just cannot beat Chaos, or rather you can't knock them out of the game like you can everyone else.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on May 31, 2016, 08:00:00 PM
I just love that they've finally fixed unit collision in this "warscape" engine. No more weird clipping or floating around for any units, even in the biggest and most moshpit-like crush of melee. Much more like Medieval 2 in feel. Now if only they could patch the engine for the previous games...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 04, 2016, 05:13:49 AM
The sickest burn

(http://i.imgur.com/wMaU0Ed.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 04, 2016, 05:32:44 AM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 06, 2016, 07:11:22 PM
One of my friends is playing and is currently on the Vampire Counts campaign. Apparently the VC have the worst economy, which makes tons of sense and is absolutely fitting, but it's funny to hear anyone actually describe them like that.

You can imagine some poor non-undead sod on VC retainer as a steward or something complaining pedantically about "total outputs" or "turnover" and the Carsteins just staring blankly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Redmao on June 07, 2016, 08:01:37 PM
Games Workshop announced the release of their Battle for Vedros line in stores.
We have yet to know where exactly this line will be available... Great marketing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 07, 2016, 08:20:01 PM
The first batch, posted on 28th of April. Update posted on 11th of May.

https://www.facebook.com/battleforvedros/photos/a.779529768857372.1073741828.779197942223888/820777914732557/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/battleforvedros/photos/a.779529768857372.1073741828.779197942223888/820777914732557/?type=3&theater)

Maybe no ones stocking it in Canada!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 07, 2016, 09:10:28 PM
What a silly post...four stores in the same state and two in another.  Really effective.  lol

I do suspect this idea will be a big success for them.  I may pick some up to play some games with my 9 year old nephew.  I think the real steal here will be if/when these stores decide to do 50-75% off random items in the store.  These kind of stores likely aren't buying into any GW limitations on what they can/can't do. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 07, 2016, 11:23:17 PM
Quote from: Redmao on June 07, 2016, 08:01:37 PM
Games Workshop announced the release of their Battle for Vedros line in stores.

Their what?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 07, 2016, 11:43:13 PM
North America-only (and apparently not much of it...) repacks of old sprues with simple rules (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G5F8ObYgjI) sold in non-gaming shops.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 08, 2016, 01:14:11 AM
Yep, basically from what I understand:

+Simplified rules to introduce players to the core concepts of basic 40K.
+Old plastic kit produced in pre-colored plastic (green for orks, blue for mehreeens)
+Sold together in a box with some brushes and small paint pots.

The weird thing is that they're targeting some odd retailers in the US --- not game stores.  So they're intentionally spreading the market to hobby shops which don't carry GW lines etc.  I think the hook here is that at some point some of these kits may be sold off at silly reduced prices if no one buys them.  A local store is more likely to clear the shelf at 75% off than a hobby store.

If they release any old vehicles (I think some Orc kopters are in there) you could maybe grab a few for a steal.  Interesting to see if it works at all.  It's a bold idea from such a controlling company.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on June 08, 2016, 04:07:03 AM
Agreed, it is a bold move, but TBH, the second hand market is already flooded with those models so any 'serious' gamer could easily find them and avoid paying GW's regular retail.  There is very little investment in the development as the figures are already sculpted... mostly just packaging and marketing investment.  I can see them selling enough to at least cover their costs for something like this.

If my boys were a bit older, I would pick up a kit like this for them to play around with so they don't ruin all my 'collectable' figures  ;) Heck, if it does well, I might just be able to do that in 3 years or so.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 08, 2016, 09:37:00 AM
The idea for Battle of Vedros is to reuse the moulds they have for the old Battle For Macragge/Assault On Black Reach boxed sets to make a "40k Lite" game for sale in more general retail outlets. I think the initial releases are a trial to see how they fare.

The ultimate intention I believe is to have a stand filled with boxes that are simplified versions (in coloured plastic as mentioned) of the typical units for the featured factions (Orks and Marines so far). These display stands would have a starter kit and then lots of add-on boxes, each add-on containing a complete unit. They are also to be priced at a much lower price point than GW's equivalent "full" kits.

Personally, I got on very well with the simplified kits from the recent GW starters. Much easier to clean up, assemble, and paint than the "full" kits - even if some of the details are a bit so-so occasionally. Once painted up, they are indistinguishable from the full kits, and they are usually at least half the price. My top tip in using these to build an army is to get one full kit (or to get selected parts from one through an online bitz-seller...) and spread the contents over half a dozen starter kits to jazz them up.

I hope Battle for Vedros does well, and that we see these cheap snap-fit kits released over in the UK too. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 08, 2016, 10:41:31 AM
Oh how I'd have loved for Silver Tower (and Betrayal at Calth and Overkill) to have included simpler, push-fit figures! So. Many. Parts.  o_o

The best Space Marines GW makes are the push-fit ones from the new 40k paint set. They're not squatting and their waists articulate as the armour is designed to do! https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marines-Starter-Paint-Set-2016 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marines-Starter-Paint-Set-2016)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 08, 2016, 11:39:59 AM
Well, I'm currently painting regular Dark Angel Marines from the DV box, and they are  a doddle compared to the fiddliness of the full kits.

Don't get me wrong, the new Tactical/whatever kits are very nice and sharp, and they have tons of cool options.

They just take forever to clean and assemble (more parts = more mouldlines), and when you have a full company on the table, nobody at any inspection distance is going to notice or care that they were loads more work than the three-part DV Marines who look just as good.

To my mind, the only way the DV marines could be significantly improved is if they had separate heads and if there were ten poses in a squad rather than six. That little detail would make them a bit easier to alter and vary over a big army. But you know, only if that sort of thing bothers you! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 08, 2016, 12:06:01 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on June 08, 2016, 10:41:31 AM
Oh how I'd have loved for Silver Tower (and Betrayal at Calth and Overkill) to have included simpler, push-fit figures! So. Many. Parts.  o_o

The best Space Marines GW makes are the push-fit ones from the new 40k paint set. They're not squatting and their waists articulate as the armour is designed to do! https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marines-Starter-Paint-Set-2016 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marines-Starter-Paint-Set-2016)

I hadn't seen those, I have to agree those are surprisingly good looking for push fit paint set models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on June 08, 2016, 12:56:04 PM
I've found that the packs of 5 push fit Cadians are much better mouldings than the multipart ones. They're cracking little models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Redmao on June 08, 2016, 04:57:27 PM
Wow, those three Marines from the paint set look much more dynamic than the regular push-fit Marines that come in the 10$ 3-pack and I like those.
Might have to get a set to make "special" characters.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 09, 2016, 05:35:53 AM
I'd be interested in getting some of the older sprues. Hopefully they will do it for fantasy in the future. Knights vs dragons would be a seller.
With any luck it will sell well and make them realise that lower prices work well...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 09, 2016, 02:36:29 PM
Quote from: beefcake on June 09, 2016, 05:35:53 AM
With any luck it will sell well and make them realise that lower prices work well...  lol

Well, it is technically a different product, and I would presume that the moulds have already been long paid for... So technically, they are not discounting their products, and all they have to do (for a minimal outlay) is watch big profit roll in.

It's basically the opposite of what they do when they repackage a box of models to only give you half but for the same price (plus a new-looking box, ofc).

Anyway, we'll see how it goes I guess; hopefully it will be reasonable and successful :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 09, 2016, 06:52:37 PM
Extra credits, a youtube channel mostly concerning the computer gaming industry and design just did a video on war-hammer licence games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOVrmfXolQg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOVrmfXolQg)

More observation and speculation then informed insight but still interesting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 10, 2016, 10:45:36 AM
Quote from: Scurv on June 10, 2016, 09:42:22 AM

Management, Usually the last word in stupid.

I once heard a bit of advice ... and I can't for the life of me remember where it was from. They said if you're a new boss, you need to change something, anything, as quickly as possible. Even if it's taking the tea break at 10.30 instead of 11.00, or storing the mop bucket in the kitchen instead of the toilet, something like that. It gets people very quickly used to the idea that you are actually in charge, rather than just being a caretaker following on someone else's policies.

All good fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 10, 2016, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: Cubs on June 10, 2016, 10:45:36 AM
It gets people very quickly used to the idea that you are actually in charge, rather than just being a caretaker following on someone else's policies.

(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/1/1e/Phb.png/revision/latest?cb=20100716195552)

Something something Games Workshop
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on June 10, 2016, 07:31:34 PM
So, I don't often go into GW, perhaps once a year for washes for which there does not seem a decent alternative.

So, I go in today. Hmmm, taller pots, OK, hope they've not marked them up too much. I need Earthshade & Green.

Thanks, that will be £9.10 please.

HOW MUCH?????

Two sodding paints & I can barely buy a chocolate bar with the change from a tenner!

I'm gonna have to find some alternatives in the future.

That's my GW-related whinge over.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 10, 2016, 09:56:06 PM
Quote from: Cubs on June 10, 2016, 10:45:36 AM
I once heard a bit of advice ... and I can't for the life of me remember where it was from. They said if you're a new boss, you need to change something, anything, as quickly as possible. Even if it's taking the tea break at 10.30 instead of 11.00, or storing the mop bucket in the kitchen instead of the toilet, something like that. It gets people very quickly used to the idea that you are actually in charge, rather than just being a caretaker following on someone else's policies.

All good fun.

That's very true based on my experience in academia. Sure as anything if a new Vice Pres gets in the door, they're going to change something (usually major and for the worse) just because they feel the need to be doing something...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 11, 2016, 01:17:49 AM
Quote from: Onebigriver on June 10, 2016, 07:31:34 PM
So, I don't often go into GW, perhaps once a year for washes for which there does not seem a decent alternative.

So, I go in today. Hmmm, taller pots, OK, hope they've not marked them up too much. I need Earthshade & Green.

Thanks, that will be £9.10 please.

HOW MUCH?????

Two sodding paints & I can barely buy a chocolate bar with the change from a tenner!

I'm gonna have to find some alternatives in the future.

 lol To be fair, it's slightly less than the cost of four 12ml pots. You'd get even less dairy milk for that.

When you say no decent alternatives: colour matching, or the particular way it oozes and shades?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 11, 2016, 09:54:34 AM
Quote from: Onebigriver on June 10, 2016, 07:31:34 PM
So, I don't often go into GW, perhaps once a year for washes for which there does not seem a decent alternative.

Well, there are if you buy a couple of empty dropper bottles and make your own. See "Les Bursley's Washes" (or such search terms) on YouTube for a demonstration on how. The upfront cost is reasonably high (maybe £20), but you can literately make pints of the stuff with what that buys you! Alternatively you can buy three pots of wash from GW for the same cost. [shrugs]

Quote from: Onebigriver on June 10, 2016, 07:31:34 PM
Thanks, that will be £9.10 please.

HOW MUCH?????

Yeah, the new double-size pots of wash are eye-wateringly expensive. I honestly don't know why people keep buying paint from GW since everyone seems to be miffed at how much they charge...  I mean, it's not like you have to leave your house to buy lots of alternatives online, so the "convenience" reason usually just translates to "I didn't plan properly". :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on June 11, 2016, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 11, 2016, 09:54:34 AM
I honestly don't know why people keep buying paint from GW since everyone seems to be miffed at how much they charge...  I mean, it's not like you have to leave your house to buy lots of alternatives online, so the "convenience" reason usually just translates to "I didn't plan properly". :?

Except I already said that there do not seem to be decent alternatives, in terms of consistency, colour, flow etc. The Vallejo washes can be gritty. In addition I recently bought online the Vallejo green wash & it is a ridiculously light green that is of little use (Hence my planned visit to GW). The Coat D'Arms range seem to suffer from an identity crisis - are they inks or washes? Kind of important to know which in terms of drying times!

As a rule I do not join in GW-bashing. It's a long time since I bought new miniatures from them, but that is my choice. If people are happy to pay their prices that's fine. Vallejo paints are my personal preference for painting, but GW's washes are superior. I had no hang ups about buying their washes, as the prices used to be comparable to those of other paint ranges, so I think my initial shock is understandable.

OK, these new pots contain more, so I'll decant some into smaller pots to reduce loss by spillage, but it might be time for me to investigate that schizophrenic coat d'arms range.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 11, 2016, 01:26:52 PM
Have you tried Army Painter? I like their washes, though I haven't tried all the colours.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 11, 2016, 01:56:18 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on June 11, 2016, 01:26:52 PM
Have you tried Army Painter? I like their washes, though I haven't tried all the colours.

They're inks. Nice enough and I do use them, but really they're just inks. The GW washes have a lovely slippery consistency that I've not found anywhere else. They adhere really well and have a sort of clingy feel that I like. I don't use them neat, but mix them up with paint, glazes and ink into my own pots of washes and it works well for me.

I completely understand where OBG is coming from. I'll keep buying them because I'm happy to pay that price for that particular product, since I save so much money buying my paints and everything elsewhere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 11, 2016, 02:19:13 PM
Quote from: Cubs on June 11, 2016, 01:56:18 PM
They're inks. Nice enough and I do use them, but really they're just inks. The GW washes have a lovely slippery consistency that I've not found anywhere else. They adhere really well and have a sort of clingy feel that I like. I don't use them neat, but mix them up with paint, glazes and ink into my own pots of washes and it works well for me.

No they're not. For some reason Army Painter call them inks, but Army Painter Dark, Strong and Soft Tone washes seem like a direct equivalent of the GW washes to me - I've used both. They're nothing like the old GW inks I have and nothing like the Vallejo Game Inks I use when I want, you know, an ink.

http://taleofpainters.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/review-army-painter-warpaints.html (http://taleofpainters.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/review-army-painter-warpaints.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on June 11, 2016, 02:31:06 PM
Yep I'd recommend the AP ''Inks'', they are a acrylic based wash and act the same as the GW products Also I found they don't tend to mist (Go slighty grey when dry) like some of the Vallejo Washes.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 11, 2016, 02:54:53 PM
@ Onebigriver:

I apologise, despite my quoting your post, I was actually speaking more generally as I see these comments often.

Quote from: Onebigriver on June 11, 2016, 12:33:10 PM
Except I already said that there do not seem to be decent alternatives, in terms of consistency, colour, flow etc.

Did you check out my suggestion?

If you did, you'll know that you can control all those elements to make the exact wash you want (and in any colour you need). All they are is water, acrylic medium, retarder, some flow improver, and a tiny amount of pigment (paint or ink). Changing the ratios changes the washes' properties.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 11, 2016, 03:24:04 PM
Quote from: Onebigriver on June 11, 2016, 12:33:10 PM
The Coat D'Arms range seem to suffer from an identity crisis - are they inks or washes? Kind of important to know which in terms of drying times!

They have both inks and ('super') washes. Ironically their inks are more like GW washes than their washes are, though that's not saying much. Been a while since I used them in anger, but I had a very strong first impression that CDA washes were little more than watered-down paint.

I have an old test pic here; different GW and CDA inks and washes on a white-primed termagant:

http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/pic/Vermis/scifi/CDAwash.jpg.html

(http://www.cheddarmongers.org/prod/gallery2/d/19157-5/CDAwash.jpg)

There's a bit more explanation on the page, but look at the middle shot in particular. CDA mid-brown wash on the spinefist (also on the carapace in the top pic), and CDA chestnut ink on the middle leg and ribcage. The ink is less blotchy, at least, IMO.
Compare them to the watered-down GW snakebite leather on the face, then to the (old) GW washes on the carapace plates, and the GW flesh wash ink on the tail and hindleg.

Then there are the super shaders, three shades in bigger pots that seem to be competitors to the Army Painter dips. The dark brown does have that polyurethane-y varnish look. The black seems thinner, more of a blackliner than a shader, perhaps. They work pretty nicely, IMO.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 11, 2016, 02:54:53 PM
If you did, you'll know that you can control all those elements to make the exact wash you want (and in any colour you need). All they are is water, acrylic medium, retarder, some flow improver, and a tiny amount of pigment (paint or ink). Changing the ratios changes the washes' properties.

I'd have to agree. I've had pretty good results myself, with Daler-Rowney matt gel glazing medium*, some kind of flow improver, and of course water and paint/ink.

* I don't know if it has to be Daler-Rowney, or glazing medium, but I think the thicker gel consistency helps make the wash more transparent while keeping some amount of body to stop the stuff pooling too much. (Even when thinned, though it can be thinned too much)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on June 11, 2016, 04:09:31 PM
I just used the VMC yellow ink and like the red it dries with a smooth gloss finish which makes painting on top a bit of a pain....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 11, 2016, 05:00:08 PM
Quote from: Vermis on June 11, 2016, 03:24:04 PM
They have both inks and ('super') washes. Ironically their inks are more like GW washes than their washes are, though that's not saying much. Been a while since I used them in anger, but I had a very strong first impression that CDA washes were little more than watered-down paint.

Many years ago now I ended up with a full set of CdA fantasy paints and I found their 'inks' to be utter garbage unfortunately. At the time GW were still using water based inks for their washes and having used GW inks back in the late 80's as well I was rather surprised that the CdA range was supposed to be the same as the old GW stuff. Bang on with thinking the CdA inks are little more than paint washes as that's exactly how they seemed to me as well.

For what it's worth I really like the current GW washes. I know you can mix your own equivalents and all that arsing around but for sheer convenience I'll take a pot of Nuln Oil and Agrax Earthshade every time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 11, 2016, 05:13:43 PM
I bought CdA Ink Wash Flesh hoping it was like the old Citadel Flesh Wash Ink and it was horrible. I've no idea what the hell it was supposed to be.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: olyreed on June 11, 2016, 07:41:50 PM
Looks like the ruins of osgiliath have been rereleased, £18
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on June 11, 2016, 07:49:51 PM
Quote from: olyreed on June 11, 2016, 07:41:50 PM
Looks like the ruins of osgiliath have been rereleased, £18

Awesome!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 11, 2016, 08:12:23 PM
Excellent - I hope they release another set to accompany the ruins and add variety.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 11, 2016, 08:27:32 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on June 11, 2016, 02:19:13 PM
No they're not. For some reason Army Painter call them inks, but Army Painter Dark, Strong and Soft Tone washes seem like a direct equivalent of the GW washes to me - I've used both.

So enraged was I by your knaveish challenge to my authoritah, that I made a point of getting my AP inks out when I was at the desk and ... you're absolutely right! I've been using them as an ink for years now, even a slightly watery ink. I squeezed a bit out and yes, it was a thin ink. Then I noticed a good quarter inch of sludge still in the dropper bottle, I popped a couple of little ball bearings in and gave it a good shake. Then when I squeezed some out it was indeed a nice, viscous wash.

Well raise my rent. Yet another day when I'm sure I'm right and end up being wrong, and all the richer for it. I'm chuffed to bits now, because I've got three bottles of the stuff!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on June 11, 2016, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on June 11, 2016, 08:12:23 PM
Excellent - I hope they release another set to accompany the ruins and add variety.

I just went on their website and it seems to be 'currently out of stock'. I guess a lot of people went for them! I've even gone and got an account so I can be notified when they come back in stock.

I'm on a constant lookout for good, realistic, medieval or semi-fantasy stone ruins, and I haven't yet found what I'm looking for. I've always admired this set though, and think it's definitely worth getting now its apparently available again. I plan to base it up and cover it with vines and bushes for a really overgrown effect.

GW, if you are listening, please release lots more good quality ruins WITHOUT all the skulls and such! They will sell like hot cakes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 11, 2016, 09:34:35 PM
@Cubs- Even better value, a wash and a thin ink! :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 15, 2016, 10:57:38 AM
White Dwarf is going back to monthly!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 15, 2016, 01:49:30 PM
I placed an order for the Eldar "Start Collecting" box which was just advertised for pre-order.  A Fire Prism, three jetbikes and a farseer on a jetbike.   Not too bad for $64 bucks. It's actually about perfect since those are units I don't have for my army.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on June 15, 2016, 02:55:19 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on June 15, 2016, 10:57:38 AM
White Dwarf is going back to monthly!

What was it previously? I stopped buying them 15 years ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 15, 2016, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on June 15, 2016, 02:55:19 PM
What was it previously? I stopped buying them 15 years ago.

Weekly for a little while.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 15, 2016, 03:08:01 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on June 15, 2016, 02:55:19 PM
What was it previously? I stopped buying them 15 years ago.

A year or two (?) ago, it split into Warhammer Visions - a thick but smaller format magazine, available in newsagents, monthly, that was just photos, photos and more photos - and the new White Dwarf - a weekly publication, only available in GW stores (IIRC) but fairly thin. About 32 pages.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on June 15, 2016, 03:17:29 PM
That ended fast enough....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 15, 2016, 03:45:57 PM
Almost tempting at £50 for the first year (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/White-Dwarf-12-Month-Sub-2016-Intro-ENG)

I had a peek inside a Warhammer Visions recently, hoping they'd fixed the appalling photography/layout and every caption in three languages aspects. Sadly, they hadn't :(

I'll think about this, just not sure how much it has to offer me these days. No interest in AOS and no real changes in 40k in what seems like forever (the Tau in particular seem to have halted all investment in things other than larger and larger robots).

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 16, 2016, 09:41:07 AM
Quote from: zemjw on June 15, 2016, 03:45:57 PM
(the Tau in particular seem to have halted all investment in things other than larger and larger robots).

Given the visual theme of the faction though, this does seem somewhat fitting! lol

I got a big handful of back-issues of both Visions and WD Weekly from Element games thrown into an order I placed earlier in the year, and there's absolutely bugger-all in them.

Both formats are too small to have nice big clear pictures, and there is very little actual text/content in them. You know those pointless click-bait style websites that are sometimes referred to as "content mills"? These are the analogue format of those, and you have to pay for them.

I do hope that they get back to writing full battle reports and producing tangible hobby content again. I also hope that they get proper background articles and stories back in, and not just printed excerpts from other publications. If there is enough in terms of scenarios and rules, I would like to see the return of the occasional compendiums they used to put out for their games.

Fingers crossed that they remember how to do all this? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 16, 2016, 11:26:13 AM
A few details ripped from FB.

Quote
So, after yesterday’s announcement, it seems there are a few questions some of of you are asking. Well, here’s the info…

1. What’s the price of the new White Dwarf?
The cover price of the new 156-page White Dwarf will be:

UK £5.99 | Euro €8 | Poland 30zł | Switzerland 14CHF | Sweden 70kr | Norway 65kr | Denmark 60kr

USA $9 | Canada $12 | Australia $15 | New Zealand $18

Japan ¥1,400 | China ¥60 | Hong Kong HK$82 | Malaysia RM37 | Singapore SG$14

(So, as you can see, the early-bird subscriptions really are a great saving. Check them out at: www.games-workshop.com.)

2. Will there be a digital edition?
Yes, absolutely! More news coming soon. (If you have a current digital subscription which ends after the end of July, then at that time please contact your local customer service team by phone or email and we'll see you right.)

3. Will I be able to get White Dwarf in my local newsagents?
White Dwarf will be available from all Games Workshop and Warhammer stores, independent stockists and – as the old saying goes – the better sort of newsagents everywhere. Ask them to order it.

4. What languages will the new White Dwarf be published in?
English, French and German.


States that it will cover News, Golden Demon, Battle Reports, Painting Masterclasses, Designer's Notes and Exclusive Games and Rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 16, 2016, 11:54:34 AM
Here a wish with no chance of being granted .... wouldn't it be nice if WD went back to being a hobby magazine, with articles and ads from non-GW stuff? Perhaps those days are well and truly gone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 16, 2016, 11:59:29 AM
Why would GW want to promote someone else's competing product? Can't blame them for keeping WD 100% GW. Different state of affairs for those first 10 years or so of WD.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 16, 2016, 12:27:47 PM
I agree that a GW wouldn't want to promote somebody else's products... I mean, I don't expect to see Samsung phones in Apple shops, do you?

And £6 an issue? Phew, count me out please!  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on June 16, 2016, 12:32:28 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on June 16, 2016, 11:59:29 AM
Why would GW want to promote someone else's competing product?

You have to remember though, GW has absolutely no competition.  ::)

Though it also works as a reason to keep other products out "those things you've got obviously don't exist, we don't want non-GW hallucinations in our magazine!".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: olyreed on June 16, 2016, 12:32:45 PM
ruins of Osgiliath back in stock if you want some
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 16, 2016, 12:38:01 PM
Quote from: olyreed on June 16, 2016, 12:32:45 PM
ruins of Osgiliath back in stock if you want some

Has the price changed at all? I believe there was some fear of up-marking before?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: olyreed on June 16, 2016, 12:50:28 PM
£18. I dont get paid till next week, probably be out of stock then  :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on June 16, 2016, 12:51:29 PM
Ruins are £18. Bought mine in 2010 for £12.75 from the now defunct Maelstrom, RRP then £15
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on June 16, 2016, 01:59:25 PM
I bought a box of the GW Large Basing Detail Kit last week. I normally make all my own bases, but have been running out of ideas lately, so I thought it would be worth the coin. It is the most disappointing GW thing I've purchased. Lots of bits, but the detail is very ordinary: really soft molding.  I've put some photos up on my blog, which I can't be bothered reposting here, sorry! If you want the gory details: http://preacherbyday.blogspot.com/2016/06/review-large-base-detail-kit-by-games.html (http://preacherbyday.blogspot.com/2016/06/review-large-base-detail-kit-by-games.html)

Bottom line though, stay away: it's just not worth it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 16, 2016, 02:09:50 PM
Your right, that is some of the softest detail on a high end plastic kit I have ever seen.  :`
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on June 16, 2016, 02:16:20 PM
Yep, I was seriously unimpressed. All the more so, because their stuff is usually so good in the fine detail department these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 16, 2016, 03:12:03 PM
@ blacksoilbill:

I wonder if this is another ham-fisted effort to prevent you from making a ruin from the bits rather then just basing with them... You know, because a proper GW ruin kit that they sell costs a lot more than the basing kit or something.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 16, 2016, 04:20:57 PM
That's a real shame, I thought they'd sell these like gangbusters simply because (scraping off skulls) you could use a ton of sci-fi figures with them.  I don't do slottas/raised bases but this should have been a huge sell for them.  I'm sure the 40K diehards will snatch them up but I was hoping they were a bit better.

EDIT: I'm making the assumption here that the newly released line of bases will be similar to that basing set...I could be wrong!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 16, 2016, 04:57:52 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on June 16, 2016, 11:59:29 AM
Why would GW want to promote someone else's competing product? Can't blame them for keeping WD 100% GW. Different state of affairs for those first 10 years or so of WD.

Not blaming them, not trying to argue a business model, just floating a bit of "Wouldn't it be nice ..."

WD used to be a hobby magazine packed with all sorts of lovely stuff. It had broad appeal, which is why it I liked it. It had that cooperative feel that a lot of this industry still does have with the smaller companies, knowing that to support the community and grow the hobby benefits all. Like I said, it's a wish with no chance of being granted and those days are probably gone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 16, 2016, 05:01:43 PM
@ Elbows:

From what I've seen online, the Sector Imperialis bases are also very softly-detailed. I also heard a rumour that these are not made by GW themselves, but rather outsourced...

Not so sure about the new terrain board itself, but a lot of details I've seen look both a bit soft and chunky. I suspect that this may be a compromise to get such a greebled set of boards to release from the mould however.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on June 16, 2016, 06:24:43 PM
I really want those Osgiliath ruins  >:(

When I first saw they were re-released, I went to have a look and saw them temporarily out of stock.I made an account with GW just to be notified when they were back...

Got emailed today at work to say they were back in stock. Great!
 
Came home... sold out again.

Why can't they just produce enough?????
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 17, 2016, 07:26:30 PM
Quote from: Charlie_ on June 16, 2016, 06:24:43 PM
I really want those Osgiliath ruins  >:(

When I first saw they were re-released, I went to have a look and saw them temporarily out of stock.I made an account with GW just to be notified when they were back...

Got emailed today at work to say they were back in stock. Great!
 
Came home... sold out again.

Why can't they just produce enough?????

They probably only have one or two copies of the mould, and when you have people ordering 4 or 5 at a time every single time they come back on the store, the supply is gonna be outstripped the demand.
they're trying to play catch up and you aren't helping  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 27, 2016, 04:28:02 PM
Just stumbled upon this old thread over on Dakka (gasp!) and it features one of the most sublime 40K armies I've ever seen...beautiful composition, perfect models etc.  Worth a look:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/589402.page

(particularly if you like Blood Angels)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Glitzer on June 27, 2016, 04:38:23 PM
Quote from: Charlie_ on June 16, 2016, 06:24:43 PM
I really want those Osgiliath ruins  >:(

When I first saw they were re-released, I went to have a look and saw them temporarily out of stock.I made an account with GW just to be notified when they were back...

Got emailed today at work to say they were back in stock. Great!
 
Came home... sold out again.

Why can't they just produce enough?????
I did not realize they are back, now I want them too...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 27, 2016, 04:48:43 PM
Anybody dug deeper into this "new" aircraft combat game GW is doing now with their flyers?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 27, 2016, 06:25:35 PM
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13512012_10153478543526315_1115935165192222078_n.jpg?oh=9710bfbe5b5ff561c4560e2c90abe1da&oe=57F7B382)


I assume this will be another 'cheapy' like Lost Patrol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 27, 2016, 08:16:10 PM
It's like they bundled everything I hate...and put it into one box.  That's brilliant.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 27, 2016, 09:04:23 PM
I'd agree, except for the fact it uses a hex grid by the looks of it.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on June 27, 2016, 09:21:22 PM
I look at the add and all I can think is:
"Gorechosen! The khorneflake endorsed by pro cereal killers! Now with extra skullz and spikes! Eat yours with Blood! For the Blood God!"

The  game just has that weird feel of 80s-commercial hyperbole to it...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 27, 2016, 11:55:28 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 27, 2016, 08:16:10 PM
It's like they bundled everything I hate...and put it into one box.  That's brilliant.  lol

And a very small box at that......

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on June 28, 2016, 01:21:28 AM
Quote from: Modhail on June 27, 2016, 09:21:22 PM
The  game just has that weird feel of 80s-commercial hyperbole to it...

It makes me think... brode-sode! (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx8sl2uC46A)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 28, 2016, 09:05:23 AM
Quote from: YPU on June 27, 2016, 04:48:43 PM
Anybody dug deeper into this "new" aircraft combat game GW is doing now with their flyers?

There's some stuff on Table Top Gaming (http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/stormcloud-attack-aerial-combat-game-available-from-games-workshop/) and some pre-orders up on GW (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000?N=4294965059+4294965067&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=cat440130a-flat)

You get for two flyers and a rulebook. Prices range from £60 to £75 depending on which set you go for. There's also a £20 fluff book

It brings back to mind the old game they did with Ork bombers trying to blow something up - what was it's name ???  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 28, 2016, 09:10:46 AM
Needs more skullz
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on June 28, 2016, 09:48:46 AM
I thought it was going to be a GW version of Wings of War/X-Wing but the stats and what rules there are look anything but.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 28, 2016, 10:45:25 AM
I assumed the flyers game is little more than what the Knights game was, a chance to buy two models for a cheaper price with a game tacked on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on June 28, 2016, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: zemjw on June 28, 2016, 09:05:23 AM

It brings back to mind the old game they did with Ork bombers trying to blow something up - what was it's name ???  ???

Bommaz Over Da Sulpha River.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 28, 2016, 01:11:35 PM
Quote from: TWD on June 28, 2016, 10:53:04 AM
Bommaz Over Da Sulpha River.



Thanks - googling for "games workshop ork flyers bridge destroying game" didn't find anything :?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 28, 2016, 02:45:33 PM
Quote from: TWD on June 28, 2016, 10:53:04 AM
Bommaz Over Da Sulpha River.



I really did like that game, had fun playing it with my son who was about six at the time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 02, 2016, 03:20:01 PM
I was looking for an Alarielle model to lead my DR elves.

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120204015_AlarielleEverqueen06.jpg)
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer?N=102295+4294965067&Nu=product.repositoryId&qty=12&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=cat440002a-flat&_requestid=235101





I might keep looking.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 02, 2016, 04:05:06 PM
Why is she riding a Tyranid?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 02, 2016, 05:14:29 PM
Because Age of Sigmar. lol

I'm torn. I kinda like the big beetle because it's a big beetle (it's novel, at least); but in the context of Warhammer, it's like one more step towards the game's transformation into pokémon. The Alarielle mini itself, with the tree-wings, is a nope. Both figures together, connected by bits of twig, is another instance of 'cheap' AoS relying on huge expensive models, and too over the top for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 02, 2016, 05:51:05 PM
Looks to me like its a 2 sprue set, the beetle looks like its all on one sprue with the other one being the Alarielle and a lot of decorative bits. Pity that the beetle sprue probably is the one everybody is going to want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 02, 2016, 06:28:05 PM
What a noisy mess, wow.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 02, 2016, 07:58:23 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 02, 2016, 06:28:05 PM
What a noisy mess, wow.

It is indeed a mess that is overheated.

Alarielle isn't the worst, the beetle is weird, and the wooden wings look like something that Wile E Coyote would manufacture from an Acme kit.

(http://bite-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/batsuit.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on July 02, 2016, 08:08:13 PM
Quote from: grant on July 02, 2016, 07:58:23 PM
It is indeed a mess that is overheated.

Alarielle isn't the worst, the beetle is weird, and the wooden wings look like something that Wile E Coyote would manufacture from an Acme kit.

(http://bite-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/batsuit.jpg)

Sir, I take offence. Mr. W.E.Coyote does better than wooden wings with leaves for feathers. That was my favourite cartoon show, that was.   :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 02, 2016, 08:37:08 PM
While I don't like that model,the idea of a giant stag beetle as a steed or beast of burden in a caravan.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 02, 2016, 08:40:43 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on July 02, 2016, 08:08:13 PM
Sir, I take offence. Mr. W.E.Coyote does better than wooden wings with leaves for feathers.

Funny, Grant, but I have to concur with m'learned friend here. lol

It reminds me of a couple of things. One escapes me at the mo, but the other is the Swamp Thing. Reinvented by Alan Moore in the 80's as a groundbreaking philosophical horror comic, then years later the 'New 52' rolled around and turned the character into an armoured he-man with leafy wings. (http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/10/101435/2574131-2514705_swamp_thing_08_pg11.jpg)

Quote from: FramFramson on July 02, 2016, 06:28:05 PM
What a noisy mess, wow.

Dunno if you mean the model or the photo, or both, but for the latter - yeah. It's so cluttered and badly composed that it almost pushes you into inspecting all the details rather than taking the model as a whole. Ironically, you can't see the forest for the trees.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on July 02, 2016, 10:08:26 PM
Agreed.

Those mini-treemen in the same pic look quite cool though!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 02, 2016, 11:07:57 PM
The treemen don't look Tree enough for me. I don't know what it is. They look too sculpted rather than natural. A hard balance to find but when you can enlist some of the great sculptors that GW has you would think they could.

I'm surprised they didn't 3d scan a tree and put the CEO's face on it.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 02, 2016, 11:16:53 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 02, 2016, 11:07:57 PM
The treemen don't look Tree enough for me. I don't know what it is. They look too sculpted rather than natural. A hard balance to find but when you can enlist some of the great sculptors that GW has you would think they could.

I'm surprised they didn't 3d scan a tree and put the CEO's face on it.  lol

I think you might have just found a new market there. I-ent.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 02, 2016, 11:46:00 PM
Um, oh... er, um....  wow.  Just wow... and not in a good way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 03, 2016, 12:14:15 AM
Oh. Just. Oh.

That is certainly a defined and defensible ip...

Whats the odds they will be "sold-out" very soon?

Not many skulz though.. I remember the last lot of tree peoples things had more skulz for adding decoration?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 03, 2016, 02:34:55 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 02, 2016, 11:07:57 PM
The treemen don't look Tree enough for me. I don't know what it is. They look too sculpted rather than natural.

It's like that Swamp Thing bit (in case people wondered why it was relevant) - take a strange, otherworldly, plant-thing personification of floral nature, turn it into a badazz Optimus-Prime-made-of-logs barbarian fightin' dewd with big clawz and a bigger... zword... with a grimdark skull-face mask and pondweed dreadlocks and glowy 'tribal' tattoos carved right into his skin, man, and I feel kinda tired now for some reason.

Though to be fair, I thought GW's last few iterations of tree-folk were less ambulatory tree and more Frankenstein's monster fashioned out of bits of rotten lumber, too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 03, 2016, 02:43:01 AM
Bring back the Marauder Treeman I say.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 04, 2016, 12:42:51 PM
Quote from: Vermis on July 02, 2016, 08:40:43 PM
It reminds me of a couple of things. One escapes me at the mo...

Maybe this was it?

(http://www.waltdisneysreturntooz.com/Mem_Puz_Bf.jpg)

The Gump. Also sounds a bit relevant.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on July 05, 2016, 10:51:11 AM
I just saw a pic of this Alarielle miniature on another site and immeditely came here to convey my emotions on the matter, but inevitably I was beaten to it.

No idea what that thing is that she is riding. Her muscle structure reminds me of the Trey Manor chaos warriors. Which is a bit odd cos isnt she supposed to be a wood elf or something?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 05, 2016, 10:58:06 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on July 05, 2016, 10:51:11 AM
No idea what that thing is that she is riding. Her muscle structure reminds me of the Trey Manor chaos warriors. Which is a bit odd cos isnt she supposed to be a wood elf or something?

I like the beetle, just you know don't entirely see what its doing here. Scrap that, its a stag beetle, and she is supposed to be the lady to cernunos the horned hunter, a stag man, and she is "riding" a stag thingy, get it.  :D

And well she is the atavar/embodyment of the element of life or some such in the new lore I think, not that far off from a chaos god, not saying she should have the muscles to go with it though!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 05, 2016, 11:42:21 AM
It's Age of Sigmar. Everything's packed with muscle. Moreso than they were, anyway.

Quote from: weismonsters on July 05, 2016, 10:51:11 AM
isnt she supposed to be a wood elf or something?

Quote from: YPU on July 05, 2016, 10:58:06 AM
Scrap that, its a stag beetle, and she is supposed to be the lady to cernunos the horned hunter

That was Ariel. Alarielle was everqueen of the high elves. Though given that her corner of high elf country was pretty woodsy, and the similarity of the names, the confusion's understandable. :)

I think that's the biggest background jar in my mind, that she's queen of the trees now. If you look at her bit of the GW store - Sylvaneth (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer?Nao=0&Nu=product.repositoryId&N=102295+4294965324&qty=12&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=cat440002a-flat) - there aren't any other elves, just trees. Trees with swords. Trees with ghosts. Trees with boobs. All the wood elves are tucked away in another pocket of all these dozens of 'new' factions. (Including glade guard, which I thought were part of that big plastic purge a while ago)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 05, 2016, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Vermis on July 05, 2016, 11:42:21 AM

That was Ariel. Alarielle was everqueen of the high elves. Though given that her corner of high elf country was pretty woodsy, and the similarity of the names, the confusion's understandable. :)


You are completely right, though I think they have rolled them into one character now? She looks a lot more like like the old Ariel then the old Alarielle I think? Might just be the wood theme. I wasn't a massive fan of the butterfly wings but this isn't any better for ariel in any case.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 06, 2016, 12:07:47 AM
Quote from: YPU on July 05, 2016, 11:48:58 AM
You are completely right, though I think they have rolled them into one character now? She looks a lot more like like the old Ariel then the old Alarielle I think? Might just be the wood theme. I wasn't a massive fan of the butterfly wings but this isn't any better for ariel in any case.

I think this is meant to be a reincarnation of ariel. In the same way Karl Franz became sigmar, ariel became Alarielle after the splitting of the old world into the new realms. I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on July 06, 2016, 09:00:25 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 06, 2016, 12:07:47 AM
I think this is meant to be a reincarnation of ariel. In the same way Karl Franz became sigmar, ariel became Alarielle after the splitting of the old world into the new realms. I think.

During the End Times Ariel "died" but passed part of her power on to Alarielle the Everqueen of the High Elves. Alarielle then became the remainder of the living embodiment of Isha that Ariel had been, in addition to the Avatar of Life magic. She also took Orion as her consort. This new one is a continuation and evolution of that concept.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 06, 2016, 06:26:45 PM
Oh. That makes perfect sense then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 06, 2016, 07:07:53 PM
Quote from: grant on July 06, 2016, 06:26:45 PM
Oh. That makes perfect sense then.

At this point with everything going on in age of sigmar I'm not even sure if you actually think this makes sense or are being sarcastic.

In any case this means her riding a stag related creature is pun material.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 06, 2016, 08:53:04 PM
 lol Never clicked to that. That's terrible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 06, 2016, 09:21:07 PM
I've been looking at AoS at my FLGS and I just just just cant do it.  To spend all that money on lackluster models and what appears to be an even more lackluster game seems to be a bad use of my time and money.  A shame really, I really loved GW stuff in the 90s
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 06, 2016, 09:47:12 PM
I've been on an oldhammer inspired trip down memory lane recently, rereading 3rd edition WHFB and 2nd ed 40k (I was never into RT at the time) and it's really rekindled my love for that early 90s GW stuff. I love the style of miniature from that era anyway but the rules are inspiring and leave me itching to break out some dice. Unfortunately I'm just not the type of gamer GW cater for any more. AoS just leaves me cold. It's quite interesting to see the direction thwy are heading in but they haven't made anything I want to play for years. Probably the first rerelease of Space Hulk.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 06, 2016, 10:41:41 PM
Quote from: YPU on July 06, 2016, 07:07:53 PM
At this point with everything going on in age of sigmar I'm not even sure if you actually think this makes sense or are being sarcastic.

In any case this means her riding a stag related creature is pun material.

Pure sarcasm lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on July 08, 2016, 05:09:42 PM
Cut'n'pasted to avoid cluttering Scurv's AoS review thread...

Quote from: Hobgoblin on July 08, 2016, 01:13:10 PM
I agree with that, but I also think Major Gilbear has a very good point when he suggests that kids like heaps and heaps of rules. I can remember greeting the publications of Ravening Hordes, Warhammer 3rd edition and Warhammer Armies with childish glee - more rules! More rules! It was only when, at the very end of my first gaming "career", I got into Hordes of the Things that I had a sort of epiphany: "This is a far better game - and it has far fewer rules!". Childhood's end?

I agree with it, myself. I only started with 6th ed, but even towards the end of that I was getting frustrated with the clutter of rules.

There's the armchair-neurologist reasoning that children are better at soaking up masses of info when they're forming masses of neural connections, but lack the frontal lobe development to make good judgements with it. Then when the frontal lobe's all grown up, the sheer number of neural pathways are pared right down. You can't have your brain-cake and eat it...
The gameplay of WHFB and especially 40K hook kids with this (that and all the ded kewl wikkid monsters and space mariens and grimdarkness*) - they're much more focused on what might generously be called strategy, and otherwise 'listbuilding' and 'mathhammering', than on tactics. Most of the decisions are made before the game, totting up stats and points and probabilities and special rules, rather than during.

Compared to the 'deceptively simple' style of rules. The rules are simple, or rather uncluttered and streamlined, not too much calculation and memorisation needed (it's not claims of simplicity, and then dumping piles of cards or warscrolls full of special rules for specific models on you), but the way they might cleverly interact can create complex situations** on the tabletop, that need a little tactical judgement.
If I had to simplify the definition further I'd call these adult games, not as a value judgement, but as a contrast to rules-heavy games, and the general (general) audiences they might attract, or be built for.

AoS, specifically... from my own viewpoint it's reported advantages seem like the worst of both worlds. It's got simple core rules, in the form of the infamous four pages, but there's no hidden complexity there (if there is, it's hidden real deep) - it's so bare-bones I almost fall asleep looking at it. Then you have the masses of rules, where most of the gameplay seems to be, in the warscrolls, which doesn't thrill me. Maybe I've just had bad experiences with stat special-rules card games, but to me AoS seems like a combination of that, and the progression of special rules mania that affected WHFB and 40K. Less about clever maneuvering, more about what models you can afford to bring to bear.

* There's that old C S Lewis chestnut (http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/84171-critics-who-treat-adult-as-a-term-of-approval-instead) that some wargamers like to trot out. Usually presented to defend playing with toy soldiers (and rightly so) but I think 'admiration of the grown up because it is (or seems) grown up' is another of GW's hooks. If different aspects of GW seem less and less 'grown up' to you in recent years, I put it to you that part of the reason is that you're not thirteen anymore. lol

** First guy I read, posting about this kind of thing, talked about the difference between 'complex' games and 'complicated' games. I like that.

Quote
I agree with all that. I do think, though, that the merits of the "Warhammer World" are slightly overblown. It was never as satisfying or coherent as Middle Earth or Glorantha (the obvious gaming yardstick) or even - I think - the much more lightly sketched Melnibone/Young Kingdoms. I always felt that the WHFRP stuff (Renaissance cities with things scuttling unseen beneath the streets and perhaps just the hint of a hoof under a robe where a foot should be ...) sat very poorly with the garish green orcs and their football-hooligan argot, for example.

After poo-pooing the fake grownupitudeness of WFB, I have to defend it. Or maybe it's not as contradictory as that - I do like the warhammer world-that-was, but I think most of the good background was set out long before I got into the game. (I started an Ogre Kingdoms army, which showed up in 6th ed, but only because I could twist the new fluff to match the old fluff) Then, IMO, GW tried to build on that, not with more intimate detail or exploring the sparser parts of their maps, but by focusing more on massive, cataclysmic, fantasmagorical... and utterly bland, impersonal, inconsequential battles. (Well, inconsequential, apart from the last one)
This is my beef with the new setting, and Pictor's defence of it. It's another progression of the unsatisfying paths GW went down. Fighting off a bunch of orcs from a tiny village might not be much in the grand scheme of the old warhammer world, but to me it feels more meaningful than even a whole continent in a - what, infinite multidimension? - of undefined, undeveloped continents being razed. A million deaths is a statistic...

And like I said, how you gonna raze a continent from a few-feet-square table, in a way you couldn't do with WFB, or any other wargame? If it's because you reached a designated objective point at the end of the game (Token? Scenery piece? I haven't clicked the links yet) I'm not entirely convinced. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 11, 2016, 04:59:52 PM
Well, as phenomenal a deal as Betrayal at Calth was/is...the sorted out components are now criminally priced:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40-000?N=4294965037&_requestid=1899741

On the plus side if you land a box of Betrayal at Calth, (at discount around $125) you're now getting $325 MSRP worth of stuff, lol.

If anyone is considering Horus Heresy era plastics, better grab the BaC box before they disappear.  Rumour is the box game may go away.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pijlie on July 11, 2016, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: wolfen on July 06, 2016, 09:00:25 AM
During the End Times Ariel "died" but passed part of her power on to Alarielle the Everqueen of the High Elves. Alarielle then became the remainder of the living embodiment of Isha that Ariel had been, in addition to the Avatar of Life magic. She also took Orion as her consort. This new one is a continuation and evolution of that concept.

I have absolutely NO IDEA what you just wrote.....  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on July 11, 2016, 08:29:14 PM
Quote from: Elbows on July 11, 2016, 04:59:52 PM
Well, as phenomenal a deal as Betrayal at Calth was/is...the sorted out components are now criminally priced:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40-000?N=4294965037&_requestid=1899741

On the plus side if you land a box of Betrayal at Calth, (at discount around $125) you're now getting $325 MSRP worth of stuff, lol.

If anyone is considering Horus Heresy era plastics, better grab the BaC box before they disappear.  Rumour is the box game may go away.


Have to admit the prices of those individual sets had me saying WTF! They cost so much more than the regular 40K versions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 11, 2016, 08:34:04 PM
The Contemptor Dreadnought is a rather abysmal single sprue kit...worth...maybe $24.95 MSRP at the very most.  Two plastic push-together hero figures for $50?  It's...absolutely mind-blowing.  And this is all from the boxed game which an exceptionally fairly priced kit (a damn bargain by GW standards).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on July 11, 2016, 08:45:12 PM
Quote from: Elbows on July 11, 2016, 08:34:04 PM
The Contemptor Dreadnought is a rather abysmal single sprue kit...worth...maybe $24.95 MSRP at the very most.  Two plastic push-together hero figures for $50?  It's...absolutely mind-blowing.  And this is all from the boxed game which an exceptionally fairly priced kit (a damn bargain by GW standards).

I think the two character models are quite nicely made kits but rather expensive for my tastes (although I did buy the anniversary marine!). Their price is nothing new I suppose when compared with other SM characters. The dreadnought pricing threw me though because like you pointed out, it's such a simple and very basic kit. £35 for it when a regular dread' is £28 is just...  :o Glad I got the boxed game!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: VoidValue on July 11, 2016, 09:22:57 PM
The worst part of Age of Sigmarine is that it's actually a pretty good idea. Anime-inspired fantasy with over the top fighting and craziness akin to a fight from Vedic mythology? Amazing plan and would sell awesomely.

Instead we get a butchered mess of Warhammer Fantasy that somehow both has too few and too many holdouts from the original setting and system.

... I want to make a fantasy wargame system where you have Goku from Dragonball Z as a character, now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 12, 2016, 01:12:06 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on July 11, 2016, 08:45:12 PM
I think the two character models are quite nicely made kits but rather expensive for my tastes (although I did buy the anniversary marine!). Their price is nothing new I suppose when compared with other SM characters. The dreadnought pricing threw me though because like you pointed out, it's such a simple and very basic kit. £35 for it when a regular dread' is £28 is just...  :o Glad I got the boxed game!

I agree that the characters are nice, but they're also static push-fit models...and nooooo way is that worth anywhere near $25 a pop.  I don't even agree with the $25-30 clamshell characters - and those are normally multi-part plastics with some weapons options/add-ons etc.  I think a lot of this is..."don't steal Forgeworld's thunder" with normal retail boxes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 12, 2016, 07:55:34 AM
Still underwhelmed with GW's offerings.  It's been ages since I bought from them....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 12, 2016, 11:12:23 PM
So the latest rumors are a mini AoS starter kit, 8 khorne guys, 5 stormcasts, a mini campaign story, rules and extras, for £20 .
Pics are on BoLS and honestly i think i may pick it up. I like the rules and hell, i can pick it up and paint it up for a night of mini skirmish games and its still cheaper than some other games I've picked up that can;t be expanded and didn't turn out to be very fun after one or two plays. 

GW did say they would release these boxes when they launched AoS, and they also said there'd be a few different ones, so i think we may see these fly off shelves as stocking fillers, gifts to kids, or as a cheaper toe dip for people looking to try the game without being overwhelmed by the massive box.
(£20 for 13 mini's a rule/fluff/scenario book, dice and beginners guide is petty cheap compared to other skirmish game starter kits and I think the kit will probably have special rules for playing as single models rather than units.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 12, 2016, 11:24:14 PM
I'd probably be in for that. I like the sigmarines as stone golems and having a small troop of them would be good. Selli off the Khorne guys to make a bit of cash back... Or just buy the sigmarines off someone else trying to get rid of them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 12, 2016, 11:48:13 PM
you get two paladins, 3 liberators, 5 bloodreavers and 3 blood warriors.
It looks like a very tidy little skirmish kit. No idea how balanced it is but i would assume since effort must have gone into planning it on some level it should be at least somewhat even.
The white dwarf pics also make reference to price, even going so far as to dare suggest that some people might not WANT to drop a bunch of cash on a game they haven't played yet.

Is that just basic common sense? of course.
But should we take it as a sign that GW are not only aware,but actively trying to counter their image as an over priced and close minded business that listens to its customers like my death neighbor listens to me clap with one hand? I think we should.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 12, 2016, 11:57:11 PM
I agree. Lately prices have seemed more reasonable. Not so much that I'll be buying hordes of their stuff. That boat has sailed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 13, 2016, 12:38:17 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 12, 2016, 11:57:11 PM
I agree. Lately prices have seemed more reasonable. Not so much that I'll be buying hordes of their stuff. That boat has sailed.

Oh aye, i'll never have what your standard games workshop employee would call an army. but if i enjoy painting and playing through the £20 box with my girlfriend, then it's worth it for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 15, 2016, 09:04:44 AM
Looking at the upcoming "Battle For Vedros", I wondered if AoS would eventually get a similar treatment.
I know the rules for AoS are simpler than 40k, but it's actually a sensible way to sell a model range.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 16, 2016, 10:15:00 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 15, 2016, 09:04:44 AM
Looking at the upcoming "Battle For Vedros", I wondered if AoS would eventually get a similar treatment.
I know the rules for AoS are simpler than 40k, but it's actually a sensible way to sell a model range.

The new storm of sigmar box and mini unit boxes are the AoS equivalent. they have the same little logo on the box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 16, 2016, 10:20:51 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on July 15, 2016, 09:04:44 AM
Looking at the upcoming "Battle For Vedros", I wondered if AoS would eventually get a similar treatment.
I know the rules for AoS are simpler than 40k, but it's actually a sensible way to sell a model range.

Battle for Vedros is really just the very first couple of rules for 40K.  Doesn't appear to be a different game.  It looks equivalent to the introductory game you'd play out of a 40K rule book back when they released starter boxes.  It's of course aimed at a completely different retail environment, but it is just 40K without diving into all of the crazy special rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: affun on July 16, 2016, 10:50:36 PM
Feels strange to say, but I might actually buy one of those Storm of Sigmar boxes.

Could use one or two of the Khorne warriors. My problem has always been that I tend to only paint single miniatures, and the few times gw produces something I might be interested in, its hideously expensive and in a box with between 4 and 9 others. (Still trying and failing to justify a box of Blightkings)

These seem "cheap" and cheerful. I wont feel mega remorse for chopping 1 up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 16, 2016, 10:54:22 PM
I was thinking about it but $65 NZD from GW (exchange rates currently $37 if bought from GW UK) Maybe I could order from a UK stockist on Ebay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on July 21, 2016, 11:23:17 AM
There are some pictures of the new bloodbowl sprues at https://tabletopgamersuk.wordpress.com/

I'm never quite sure about the rules to posting links to leaked images, so above is just to the main site. If you click on July 2016 under the Archives list on the left you'll see the actual article.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on July 21, 2016, 04:20:45 PM
Cool, thanks for the link.  There was some mention of booster packs to fill in specialist positions... I imagine those will be in plastic as well?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on July 21, 2016, 04:35:08 PM
I would have thought so, as they've pretty much abandoned F***cast.

I suspect the specialists will be in the £15 to £20 range, as per their usual single plastic figures :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 21, 2016, 04:57:34 PM
There are still a lot of finecast models around, but they do seem to moving away from it where possible.  I know their goal was "all plastics", but there are large ranges which have a lot of finecast stuff left.  Tyranids and Eldar come to mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 22, 2016, 05:53:45 AM
So what sort of units do they have. Be interested in seeing them in action

EDIT: Woah, the DLC for that costs cr@ploads... $NZD 25. That's more than I'm willing to pay for the base game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 23, 2016, 11:50:45 AM
There is a new Realms of battle board coming, and its a disappointment. The first one had those pits of skulls but those were easily filled. After that you were left with a decent board with rocks that scaled well from 28 to 6mm games.

The new one is entirely flat (no modular hills...) and the ground is covered with small pieces of ruins splattered with sigmarite and chaos symbols.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 23, 2016, 08:46:07 PM
Quote from: YPU on July 23, 2016, 11:50:45 AM
There is a new Realms of battle board coming, and its a disappointment. The first one had those pits of skulls but those were easily filled. After that you were left with a decent board with rocks that scaled well from 28 to 6mm games.

The new one is entirely flat (no modular hills...) and the ground is covered with small pieces of ruins splattered with sigmarite and chaos symbols.

To be fair to GW on this one, it is designed to fulfill the scenery rules that go with the game rather than acting as a multi uses 40k/fantasy board. It's expensive as hell and i nyl really like 2 of the tiles , but if you are fully into the game i can see it being fun.


I picked up Storm of Sigmar today . even tho i was using staff discount i would have payed full price for it because for me it's a nice shelf skirmish box. 4 scenarios for small games, some nice unit cards with art on the back, dice and a mini rule book. As someone who was initially interested in AoS as a small fantasy skirmish game i can see this box acting as a way of legitimizing small games ,With the generals compendium giving us the point system with to say "lets play a 500 point game" and it being able to actually limit the size of the game.

I also see it as a way to pull in casual gamers who want to play games but lack time to build so much as the big starter set ,let alone expand it. As a student i am one such player and this mini box feels like GW telling me they just want me to feel i can play, not feel like I'm required to buy mountains of stuff to get a game in.


I also think I've notices a long term strategy with GW with regards to getting AoS off the ground.
They know it would be a massive backlash due to the radical change, so rather than put everything in the release for it to be promptly ignored, they left it, They let early adapters enjoy the game and in the mean time they brought out games to rope back some of the old warhammer players by cashing in on their old properties.Silver tower, mighty heroes, the new gorefist game, center piece models.....
After a while even the most stringent anti AoS player might end up with a handful of characters by buying things not involved in the main game.
Then a year later when the game has found a new and enthusiastic player base they bring out the points, competitive play, the STRUCTURE that older players were used too.
Now after a year the initial rage has passed and those players are looking at their odd little collection of AoS compatible minis, looking at the new releases and thinking "well....i suppose i could try it ,since i have the pieces..and hey, those starter boxes are good value."

It's a slow grow strategy, but it allowed them to basically wait out the storm of rage and slowly feed the game into peoples collections.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on July 25, 2016, 09:57:09 AM
That is to give way too much credit to the management.  What has actually happened is that they didn't listen to their player base, sent out AoS, it has had lower than hoped for sales and now they are trying to find ways of getting back the people who have abandoned it.  The coming of Points is a sign of GW finally listening to customer feedback.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 25, 2016, 10:35:26 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 23, 2016, 08:46:07 PM
To be fair to GW on this one, it is designed to fulfill the scenery rules that go with the game rather than acting as a multi uses 40k/fantasy board. It's expensive as hell and i nyl really like 2 of the tiles , but if you are fully into the game i can see it being fun.

I'm very curious what specific rules they fit with? I've not really looked into AoS that deeply yet. To me it pretty much looks like a highly textured but effectively flat 4x6 table.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 25, 2016, 08:06:56 PM
Quote from: jon_1066 on July 25, 2016, 09:57:09 AM
That is to give way too much credit to the management.  What has actually happened is that they didn't listen to their player base, sent out AoS, it has had lower than hoped for sales and now they are trying to find ways of getting back the people who have abandoned it.  The coming of Points is a sign of GW finally listening to customer feedback.

An organised play and points system was announced when the game came out as a future release, it just got swallowed up by tides of nerd rage.

Would you really think GW didn't expect people to backlash at the death of fantasy? they would have known way ahead of time that launching this game was going to be an uphill struggle, so why bother putting all their cards on the table when the table is going to get flipped anyway?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on July 26, 2016, 09:09:25 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 25, 2016, 08:06:56 PM
An organised play and points system was announced when the game came out as a future release, it just got swallowed up by tides of nerd rage.

Would you really think GW didn't expect people to backlash at the death of fantasy? they would have known way ahead of time that launching this game was going to be an uphill struggle, so why bother putting all their cards on the table when the table is going to get flipped anyway?

If it was announced it was buried pretty deeply as I saw no mention of it.  That is also an idiotic thing to do.  Most of the nerd rage was due to lack of points and no tournament play.  To purposely hold that back for over 12 months is absurd and if true shows GW are even more out of touch with their customers than I thought.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 26, 2016, 09:52:51 AM
AoS with points; this is obvious as it enables quick pick-up play with no fuss.

AoS for tournaments; err..., no thanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on July 26, 2016, 10:08:40 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 23, 2016, 08:46:07 PM
I picked up Storm of Sigmar today . even tho i was using staff discount i would have payed full price for it because for me it's a nice shelf skirmish box. 4 scenarios for small games, some nice unit cards with art on the back, dice and a mini rule book. As someone who was initially interested in AoS as a small fantasy skirmish game i can see this box acting as a way of legitimizing small games ,With the generals compendium giving us the point system with to say "lets play a 500 point game" and it being able to actually limit the size of the game.

My thougts too - except the staff discount bit; I got the Wayland discount and put in some bonus points I had too. I also had an aversion to AoS when it came out, but I'm giving it a shot.
The box feels a bit like the small Warmachine starters, except you get two factions here.

I fell for it I guess. I will not be getting large forces for this, as I had for WH - anyway, I have a small pile of demons which can fit it, and I don't have to worry about square bases for AoS and round ones for 40K. Don't know why I bother as I don't get any games, still...
I am also going to make this a mini project and trying (for once) to get all the stuff (er - 13 models, + a further 3 I had bought 2nd hand) done.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on July 26, 2016, 10:11:37 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 22, 2016, 05:53:45 AM
So what sort of units do they have. Be interested in seeing them in action

EDIT: Woah, the DLC for that costs cr@ploads... $NZD 25. That's more than I'm willing to pay for the base game.

£12 here. Which is pretty standard.

If you think a game as big as Total War is only worth £12 I'd swear of computer games altogether. Aside from the odd early access business which always seem to be a 50/50 risk these days for buying into a dead project, a standard game these days is £20+ and considering the cost of making these things, we could see prices rise slowly over the coming years. Just like miniatures oddly enough.

Either way, Total Warhammer has provided hours upon hours of enjoyment. With pretty varied gameplay. My only gripe now is limited starting positions of factions. Be nice if you could start as Orcs in the middle of the Badlands, as opposed to its current starting position, which is easier to hold, but harder to expand from.

As for GW, I still find AoS fairly uninspiring, though the latest releases for the Sylvaneth were pretty cool and I may pick some of those up for a generic nature force.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 26, 2016, 10:17:30 AM
Quote from: Brummie on July 26, 2016, 10:11:37 AM
£12 here. Which is pretty standard.

If you think a game as big as Total War is only worth £12 I'd swear of computer games altogether. Aside from the odd early access business which always seem to be a 50/50 risk these days for buying into a dead project, a standard game these days is £20+ and considering the cost of making these things, we could see prices rise slowly over the coming years. Just like miniatures oddly enough.

Either way, Total Warhammer has provided hours upon hours of enjoyment. With pretty varied gameplay. My only gripe now is limited starting positions of factions. Be nice if you could start as Orcs in the middle of the Badlands, as opposed to its current starting position, which is easier to hold, but harder to expand from.

As for GW, I still find AoS fairly uninspiring, though the latest releases for the Sylvaneth were pretty cool and I may pick some of those up for a generic nature force.

I'll never swear off computer games! NEVER!  ;) I'm just saying I'm willing to wait for this game to come down in price before buying it. Look at the dawn of war games or Skyrim, cheap as chips now. I was thinking in comparison to the chaos DLC which is $10 this seems rather excessive. There must be a lot of extra content. Which is the thing that I hate nowadays about games. You basically just buy the game engine and need to pay for the rest of it as DLC.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: VoidValue on July 27, 2016, 12:18:07 AM
Games Workshop annual report is up and it's pretty disastrous all round. (http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Combined-document-with-front-page.pdf)

Only reason they've stayed stable at all is getting a lot of money from royalties (presumably from Total War Warhammer).

Lost £4mil operating profit otherwise.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 27, 2016, 01:55:23 AM
Quote from: VoidValue on July 27, 2016, 12:18:07 AM
Games Workshop annual report is up and it's pretty disastrous all round. (http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Combined-document-with-front-page.pdf)

Only reason they've stayed stable at all is getting a lot of money from royalties (presumably from Total War Warhammer).

Lost £4mil operating profit otherwise.

No surprises really. AoS was a train wreck, prices are absolutely insane, what's left?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 27, 2016, 02:48:46 AM
Is that quarterly or yearly? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 27, 2016, 05:51:00 AM
Quote from: Elbows on July 27, 2016, 02:48:46 AM
Is that quarterly or yearly? 

Says annual.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: VoidValue on July 27, 2016, 06:57:52 AM
Quote from: grant on July 27, 2016, 01:55:23 AM
No surprises really. AoS was a train wreck, prices are absolutely insane, what's left?

It's just a shock, really. People are always preaching doom for GW but this year is a real disaster for them.

Also the chairman's preamble is Kirby being disgustingly self-serving.

Quote from: Elbows on July 27, 2016, 02:48:46 AM
Is that quarterly or yearly? 

Annual so yearly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 27, 2016, 08:16:38 AM
Revenue and profit have stayed the same, give or take a percentage point. Earnings per share has risen. Is that disastrous?

In a year in which they have relaunched one of their main products, that seems pretty decent to me. If I was a shareholder I would be reasonably happy with that. As a gamer, GW lost my interest and respect years ago, though in the past few months they have made great efforts to reconnect with their customer base on social media which I appreciate as a step in the right direction.

If the rumoured free mini with the relaunched WD pans out, I think I will be even happier.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: VoidValue on July 27, 2016, 08:36:32 AM
Quote from: Nord on July 27, 2016, 08:16:38 AM
Revenue and profit have stayed the same, give or take a percentage point. Earnings per share has risen. Is that disastrous?

They've only maintained overall profit due to licensing of the IP (I mean, how many Fantasy / 40k games came out last year? Five? Six? Seven?) whilst the miniature profits have took a disastrous slamming (down from £15mil to £11mil).

Licensing the IP is in no way sustainable. People tend to get bored of playing in the same setting over and over again. A lot of 40k is untapped but it won't be in a year or two.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 27, 2016, 08:58:47 AM
Better buy their figures quick then, before they go under.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on July 27, 2016, 09:33:07 AM
Quote from: VoidValue on July 27, 2016, 08:36:32 AM
They've only maintained overall profit due to licensing of the IP (I mean, how many Fantasy / 40k games came out last year? Five? Six? Seven?) whilst the miniature profits have took a disastrous slamming (down from £15mil to £11mil).

...

So the part of the business that is growing is licensing IP on a world that they have destroyed?  Now that's joined up thinking!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 27, 2016, 09:45:03 AM
Quote from: jon_1066 on July 27, 2016, 09:33:07 AM
So the part of the business that is growing is licensing IP on a world that they have destroyed?  Now that's joined up thinking!

Oh yea I was considering that. I wonder how much warhammer sales Total war would have generated if only there still was a game set in that universe.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 27, 2016, 10:01:01 AM
Quote from: YPU on July 27, 2016, 09:45:03 AM
Oh yea I was considering that. I wonder how much warhammer sales Total war would have generated if only there still was a game set in that universe.  lol

That.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on July 27, 2016, 11:06:03 AM
This is what I never understood about the decision to scrap WFB entirely (although as mentioned they've kept some figures on to act as a gateway or because the funds to produce totally new ranges just isn't there).

They could have easily left the Old World in place and then had the whole Sigmarine war in the heavens as a new dimension to the whole setting and just concentrated on that for awhile, similar to the 30k/40k business.

I just cannot comprehend why they couldn't have done that, or why they did it and then had about 3 big games produced based in that setting(Total War, Vermintide and Mordheim), with the return of a 4th (that odd MMORPG from way back), which is just awesome advertisement...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 27, 2016, 12:54:41 PM
Just because its currently dead, does not mean it cannot live again!

Specialist games section, limited edition, WFB, with free rules, no point limits and small starter battle boxes etc etc.

When you least expect it, allong with C&Ds to all the people working on their own next rules versions...

Expect it to happen when they launch  The Total War - AOS  game tie-in/IP sales.

But whoo there was a lot of  reading in that annual report. It could have been almost 90% shorter without all the extra ambling preambling etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 27, 2016, 03:19:02 PM
"We learnt some valuable lessons during the year on how to deliver product system changes on this scale and as we released more of the range in the second half of the year, we finished the year with sales of Warhammer: Age of Sigmar at a higher rate than Warhammer has enjoyed for several years"

Sounds like AoS isn't really to blame no matter how much people want it to be.

"Costs have increased in the year, mainly as a result of our store opening programme and the full year effect of the depreciation of the investment in our visitor centre which opened in April 2015."

They re did warhammer world quite drastically which would have been VERY expensive.

"Gross margin was maintained in the period (2016: 68.3%; 2015: 68.9%). "

I swear everyone seems desperate for games workshop to fail so they can lament it's downfall a year later and give themselves something to search for on ebay.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: VoidValue on July 27, 2016, 03:32:06 PM
Conspiracy theory here: Kirby's fuck ups were all to drive GW share prices down so he could buy them and make profits off the constant dividends that he's created a culture of giving out to shareholders.

Quote from: jon_1066 on July 27, 2016, 09:33:07 AM
So the part of the business that is growing is licensing IP on a world that they have destroyed?  Now that's joined up thinking!
Quote from: YPU on July 27, 2016, 09:45:03 AM
Oh yea I was considering that. I wonder how much warhammer sales Total war would have generated if only there still was a game set in that universe.  lol

Wow guys this business acumen is shocking me. You mean that people seeing their armies on a computer might make them want to go out and buy armies in real life? Just like what happened with Dawn of War (which contributed to / created the strength of 40k as compared to Fantasy)?

Jesus this is groundbreaking stuff. Someone tell Kirby.

Quote from: nic-e on July 27, 2016, 03:19:02 PM
<snip>

This is also the company that said, "We don't produce wargames" so I take everything that is ever said by them with a grain (pile) of salt.

I mean, year after year Games Workshop has lost in their operating revenue. In 2013 they made £20mil and now they're down to £10mil.

These company reports never actually give enough numbers to disassemble what they're saying. They almost always read as Kirby covering his arse but this one especially.

What does sales of Warhammer: Age of Sigmar being more than Warhammer (NOT Warhammer Fantasy???) actually mean? They made more money when the End Times were going on so are they not including that in the figures?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 27, 2016, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: VoidValue on July 27, 2016, 03:32:06 PM
Conspiracy theory here: Kirby's fuck ups were all to drive GW share prices down so he could buy them and make profits off the constant dividends that he's created a culture of giving out to shareholders.

Wow guys this business acumen is shocking me. You mean that people seeing their armies on a computer might make them want to go out and buy armies in real life? Just like what happened with Dawn of War (which contributed to / created the strength of 40k as compared to Fantasy)?

Jesus this is groundbreaking stuff. Someone tell Kirby.

This is also the company that said, "We don't produce wargames" so I take everything that is ever said by them with a grain (pile) of salt.

I mean, year after year Games Workshop has lost in their operating revenue. In 2013 they made £20mil and now they're down to £10mil.

These company reports never actually give enough numbers to disassemble what they're saying. They almost always read as Kirby covering his arse but this one especially.

What does sales of Warhammer: Age of Sigmar being more than Warhammer (NOT Warhammer Fantasy???) actually mean? They made more money when the End Times were going on so are they not including that in the figures?

thy have to include it in the figures, so it is included, it just means fantasy was not selling, as we know.

Also kirby is no longer CEO ,it's Kevin Rountree. he's been in charge of the reopening of specialist games, the relaunch of lotr, the return to social media, the freezing of price rises on non new products and the return of monthly white dwarf coming this september.

these are all good decisions that will no doubt do great for GW,but at the moment they are spending money developing these before launch hence why costs have gone up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 27, 2016, 04:31:37 PM
Time.

 Peoples still expecting the Kirby model to be in full effect and the slow slow slide to oblivion continuing until, finally many gamer generations later, no one knows what Gamesworkshop was, but they all know what OOP Warhammer somethings are.

 Seriously though, if indeed the margin is down more because of a drive to change and invest, even move away from the Kirby business model, that's a chance for the currently living hobbyists to actually see positive stuff relating to GW in their lifetimes?

Wouldn't that be nice?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 27, 2016, 05:35:51 PM
There have been some good highlights in the past year...normally tempered by more madness shortly thereafter.  I can see hope.  Will I ever engage in 40K again in the modern era?  I doubt it.  Warhammer Quest hopes were dashed for me, but I have faith in a few more specialist ones, and the valuable board-game model for good minis could continue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 28, 2016, 11:56:41 AM
I wonder how much of the panic-buying of WHFB kits was lumped under "AoS Sales"?

I say this as when they put some kits up for last chance before scrapping them, they sold out *so fast* that they actually did another run and brought them back into stock briefly along with an announcement to tell us so.

Now to me that doesn't sound like that was off the back of AoS's success, but I'm sure somebody will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong...  ::)

As for the rest. Well, who actually knows? I don't think that re-investing so much back into the company is a bad thing personally, and we've all noted on this very forum that they have seemed keener recently to try some new (i.e., old) ideas in order to re-engage with their customers. As long as they keep trying, and make progress doing so, then I frankly hope they see some success from it.

Then again, I do wonder how much thought goes into some projects if the rumours of the resin-models-with-plastic-buildings game resurrection that is Epic are to be believed. As a FW dreadnought with arms is over £50, and that looks to be around the size of the smaller Titans (Warhound/Reaver), it means that a buy-in will likely be around £200+ per player for three models each, a pair of rulebooks, and some terrain. For that £400-500 you've jointly spent, you get to play Adeptus Titanicus Battletech with all the glorious manoeuvring, tactics, and strategy that three models each permits! Either way, I'm hoping the game will be good and scales to 6mm easily (rather then the new 8mm these will be), as I already have a load of Titans and scenery and would therefore just need the rulebook.  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 28, 2016, 03:41:54 PM
Maybe this is a scatter-gun approach to finding what works and what doesn't. You can't just turn back the clock, too much has changed in the hobby in so many ways, so perhaps there's a deliberate policy of giving nostalgia-inspired initiatives a go along with other ideas, in order to see what ones make money and what ones don't. After all, there are plenty of projects that get praise and cooing appreciation, both before and after release, but don't actually sell very well.

If GW can become a widely loved company again and still be financially successful, I'd be happy to see it. Would they get my money again? Well, why not. Anything's possible I suppose.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on August 01, 2016, 07:30:13 AM
Quote from: jon_1066 on July 25, 2016, 09:57:09 AM
...sign of GW finally listening to customer feedback.

Boy they must be getting desperate.   :o

On another note, GOG.com currently has the older Warhammer PC games on sale in case someone's interested.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 01, 2016, 07:42:08 AM
I got Shadow of the Horned Rat off 'em, decided it was unplayable, and waited to see if they'd put Dark Omens up for sale. Have they done that yet?

...

No, they haven't. :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on August 01, 2016, 08:24:18 AM
Quote from: Cubs on July 28, 2016, 03:41:54 PM
If GW can become a widely loved company again and still be financially successful, I'd be happy to see it. Would they get my money again? Well, why not. Anything's possible I suppose.

They got £12.50 from me over the weekend. I took out a 3 month subscription on the relaunched White Dwarf - not because I necessarily believe it's gonna be good again, I suspect it will still be aimed at younger viewers - but because I am curious, I think £4 for a 156 page mag is potentially decent VFM, but mostly to secure the freebie on the first issue which by all accounts will be a Khorne figure that I happen to collect (but would never fork out £18 for). If the mag turns out to be rubbish after the third issue, well I have my freebies and enough paper to cover my painting area for a good few months.

There's also a good chance they will get some of my cash later in the year for a Start Collecting box, or maybe the upcoming Blood Bowl set (not necessarily Humans v Orcs, but almost certainly Dwarfs v Skaven, if that particular rumoured boxset materialises). If you pick and choose and are not dragged into the system, their intro boxes are among the best value around.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 01, 2016, 09:39:11 AM
Quote from: Nord on August 01, 2016, 08:24:18 AM
They got £12.50 from me over the weekend. I took out a 3 month subscription on the relaunched White Dwarf - not because I necessarily believe it's gonna be good again, I suspect it will still be aimed at younger viewers - but because I am curious, I think £4 for a 156 page mag is potentially decent VFM, but mostly to secure the freebie on the first issue which by all accounts will be a Khorne figure that I happen to collect (but would never fork out £18 for). If the mag turns out to be rubbish after the third issue, well I have my freebies and enough paper to cover my painting area for a good few months.

There's also a good chance they will get some of my cash later in the year for a Start Collecting box, or maybe the upcoming Blood Bowl set (not necessarily Humans v Orcs, but almost certainly Dwarfs v Skaven, if that particular rumoured boxset materialises). If you pick and choose and are not dragged into the system, their intro boxes are among the best value around.

I'm still undecided about this. I had been thinking about risking the year's subscription, but I have drifted so far from GW that I think it would just be a waste of money.

Towards the end of the previous monthly WD the paint articles had become very basic and just seemed like teasers to get you to buy a digital book that explained things further. A lot of the remaining articles were about buying half a dozen very expensive kits and using a few bits from each of them to build a supamegabetta conversion. The battle reports had become an unreadable joke and their new photographer didn't really seem to know what he was doing.

I haven't bought any of the weekly issues, but the couple of WD Visions I've leafed through still seem to suffer from the same problems.

There's still a couple of weeks to decide. Despite the rant above, I may yet subscribe o_o

The three month sub sounds like a good idea, just as long as you remember to cancel the direct debit ;D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: M Blakey on August 02, 2016, 12:44:36 AM
The only reason I'd get a subscription is for the LOTR stuff and HOBBIT. But they are non existent from what I see in there  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 02, 2016, 12:50:07 AM
Quote from: M Blakey on August 02, 2016, 12:44:36 AM
The only reason I'd get a subscription is for the LOTR stuff and HOBBIT. But they are non existent from what I see in there  :?

Aren't they coming back under Forgeworld? Or something like that?

I don't even keep track of GW anymore it's such a train wreck.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: M Blakey on August 02, 2016, 12:57:05 AM
It certainly is Grant but over the last year or so it's virtually been shelved.... but lots of new releases and some OOP's are coming back! Hopefully a massive revival for the fans!  And I can get some figures back and not pay ebay prices... so far the re releases havent been exuberant and I've managed to finally get a few sets osgiliath ruins  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 04, 2016, 01:08:18 PM
AoS General's Handbook has been released, so now we've got point values  :D.
Anyone bought it ( I plan to, to give AoS a last chance ) and what do you think about it? And yes, I know, a second book in order to really start playing is, ehm, somewhat dubious imho but that ship has sailed, so...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 04, 2016, 06:58:13 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on August 04, 2016, 01:08:18 PM
AoS General's Handbook has been released, so now we've got point values  :D.
Anyone bought it ( I plan to, to give AoS a last chance ) and what do you think about it? And yes, I know, a second book in order to really start playing is, ehm, somewhat dubious imho but that ship has sailed, so...

It has the rules at the back so really it's all you need to start playing.
The points system is a little odd, and i'm sure GW will have to clirfy the whole"100 pointws, min 30 max 60" unit size thing they've gone with, but it has caused alot of fresh interest in the game and from all accounts it seems a perfectly balanced little point system.

The scenarios are where it shine for me, with wondering monsters and random encounters really adding to the "play to have fun" Feel of the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on August 04, 2016, 07:37:09 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 01, 2016, 07:42:08 AM
I got Shadow of the Horned Rat off 'em, decided it was unplayable, and waited to see if they'd put Dark Omens up for sale. Have they done that yet?

...

No, they haven't. :(


Yeah, Dark Omen is the one that's actually fun to play and can even be completed.
Shadow of the Horned Rat on the other hand is just a study in masochism and should be considered a crime against humanity.


Quote from: Nord on August 01, 2016, 08:24:18 AM
There's also a good chance they will get some of my cash later in the year for a Start Collecting box...

Those boxes are actually pretty good in general, especially for playing ITEN like we do around here.
Was waiting for the Eldar box myself but when it finally surfaced... 'disappointing' would be the word I'd use though I guess the units contained are useful in actual 40k?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on August 04, 2016, 08:24:06 PM
Heresy!

Shadow of the Horned Rat was brilliant. A brilliant brilliant game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 04, 2016, 08:28:10 PM
Steam have mordheim up for freeplay for three days and %60 off purchase price at moment...

tempted....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 04, 2016, 08:30:50 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 04, 2016, 08:28:10 PM
Steam have mordheim up for freeplay for three days and %60 off purchase price at moment...

tempted....

Played at a friend's a while ago and wasn't that impressed by it, but maybe I should give it another go...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 04, 2016, 08:48:28 PM
60% off you say. hmmm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 04, 2016, 09:28:16 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 04, 2016, 06:58:13 PM
It has the rules at the back so really it's all you need to start playing.

Yeah, but I bought the first HC book already  ;).
No problem with scenario's, the more, the better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on August 05, 2016, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on August 04, 2016, 08:24:06 PM
Heresy!

Shadow of the Horned Rat was brilliant. A brilliant brilliant game.

Weeeell, my memories of it involve the enemy outnumbering you in every single mission by 2-3 regiments to every regiment you have, your warmachines being incredibly lucky if they manage to fire a single highly ineffective shot before exploding (they would explode on the 2nd shot, with slight luck they didn't explode but became inoperational for the rest of the battle instead) and an after battle phase where you could replace lost troops in your regiments except you could buy around 1-6 guys per battle while you generally lost 15-25 guys if not the entire regiment due to the aforementioned outnumbering and maps that, most of which, did not allow you to force the enemy into narrow routes and even in the ones that allowed it, the enemy forces just swarmed against your defensive formation and overran it.

I recall making it to a map where you faced off against the Orc warboss by which time my forces consisted of 3 heroes (the mercenary captain, some elf and some dwarf I think) plus some bonus units that mission gave you.
After shrugging off a cannonball hit and watching the cannon explode while it tried to reload, the warboss wrecked absolutely everything on his own.

And the Skaven laughter from the game haunts my sleep to this day.


So err, not my kind of brilliant at least.  :D

Quote from: Tactalvanic on August 04, 2016, 08:28:10 PM
Steam have mordheim up for freeplay for three days and %60 off purchase price at moment...

tempted....

The user interface does seem to take some getting used to but the tutorials seem to explain things pretty well.
So far it seems to be quite fun though twohanded weapons seem to have a definite advantage while ranged units really seem like a novelty at best.

Edit: every mission's a serious challenge though, be warned.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 05, 2016, 10:01:22 PM
Quote from: Scurv on August 05, 2016, 09:27:29 PM
missile units are killers. Use them better.

What he said.

I always made sure I concentrated my missile units in one corner in a convex shape with foot units on the outside facing inwards, using terrain to funnel the enemy units into corridors of devastating fire. The foot units stood ready to flank-charge any nasties trying to close with the missile troops and the mounted troops galloped about to draw some enemy units away so they could only approach the defensive line in drips and drabs. The computer controlled units were pretty stupid and seemed to want to turn to face anyone close by, especially those declaring a charge. With a bit of nifty ordering, you could keep several enemy units milling around aimlessly by beginning then cancelling charges and then retreating ... right in front of your missile troops.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 05, 2016, 10:02:10 PM
I own Mordheim and I've tried to enjoy it several times...just...can't.  I just feel they went and made it all needlessly complex when it didn't need to be.  I'd have vastly preferred a computer version of the table top game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: VoidValue on August 06, 2016, 06:46:24 AM
Quote from: Elbows on August 05, 2016, 10:02:10 PM
I own Mordheim and I've tried to enjoy it several times...just...can't.  I just feel they went and made it all needlessly complex when it didn't need to be.  I'd have vastly preferred a computer version of the table top game.

They've tried to take advantage of computer game features (like it's possible you don't know where your enemy's units actually are etc).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on August 06, 2016, 08:17:08 AM
Quote from: Scurv on August 05, 2016, 09:27:29 PM
missile units are killers. Use them better.


Quote from: Cubs on August 05, 2016, 10:01:22 PM
What he said.

I always made sure I concentrated my missile units in one corner in a convex shape with foot units on the outside facing inwards, using terrain to funnel the enemy units into corridors of devastating fire. The foot units stood ready to flank-charge any nasties trying to close with the missile troops and the mounted troops galloped about to draw some enemy units away so they could only approach the defensive line in drips and drabs. The computer controlled units were pretty stupid and seemed to want to turn to face anyone close by, especially those declaring a charge. With a bit of nifty ordering, you could keep several enemy units milling around aimlessly by beginning then cancelling charges and then retreating ... right in front of your missile troops.


How can you say that when people shrug off ranged attacks like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/2wwychr.jpg)

 :D

More seriously though, my trouble with them is that they get off 1 shot for 15-35 damage depending on their weapon, then reload and can take no further action till next round at which point they're dead unless you've blocked every pathway to them with your melee guys, since practically all enemies have either twohanders or dual wielded weapons (think I've seen 1 enemy with weapon + shield combo so far) which 2-shot ranged guys.

Comparing that to melee guys dealing out 30-65 damage per attack w/ twohanders or dual-wielded weapons and having more staying power than the ranged ones, I'm having some trouble finding use for them outside of slightly weakening an enemy before the melee troops beat the everliving daylights out of them.
Maybe if there were several of them? Though with the starting party limit being 5 and it seemingly being necessary to split your troops to collect enough wyrdstone to make the shipments, the durability of melee troops seems to be a better choice.
It's likely just my playstyle being an issue.


One more thing:
Quote from: Cubs on August 05, 2016, 10:01:22 PM
... the mounted troops galloped about...

There's mounted troops?  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 06, 2016, 01:13:09 PM
I think we may be talking at cross purposes. I was talking about the old Shadow of the Horned Rat game that was released on the Playstation. Have I shown my age once again?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on August 06, 2016, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 06, 2016, 01:13:09 PM
I think we may be talking at cross purposes. I was talking about the old Shadow of the Horned Rat game that was released on the Playstation. Have I shown my age once again?

Possibly. Then again, I'm pretty sure that never came out where I am.

In other news, I went into the brand spankin' new warhammer store in the nearest city to where I live, mostly out of nostalgia. I told one of the guys there about Pulp Alley. He seemed genuinely interested! Must be a new guy, incomplete super-loyalty training or somesuch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on August 06, 2016, 01:43:52 PM
SothR was baaaaad. Played it to death on PC, but couldn't get past a skaven mission in a mountain pass. Always lost too much models, making the rest of the game impossible to complete. Which sucked because that was at about 80% in the game.
Sometimes I replayed missions 10+ times if the digital dice were against you (with the wizard's spells doing nothing for instance). Although I think the game was bad (DO was way better),  I still have good memories of it :)  
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 06, 2016, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on August 05, 2016, 04:34:39 PM
Weeeell, my memories of it involve the enemy outnumbering you in every single mission by 2-3 regiments to every regiment you have...

My memories of it, from the Gog download, involve a control panel with almost unintelligible and undecipherable icons, and units that, when directed to attack an enemy unit (melee or shooting) did that for a few seconds, then turned round and headed in the opposite direction.

I had a copy of Dark Omens years ago. I didn't find that too easy because I was young and stupid (these days I'm older and just a bit less stupid) but from what I remember it was more intuitive and child's play compared to SotHR. On the topic of bottlenecking, I also remember those gifts of maps, like the town where zombies had to shuffle slowly down a long, straight street. All you had to do was set up the bright wizard and one cannon at the other end and keep blasting. I wouldn't mind seeing that again. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 06, 2016, 02:20:43 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on August 06, 2016, 01:39:52 PM
I told one of the guys there about Pulp Alley. He seemed genuinely interested! Must be a new guy, incomplete super-loyalty training or somesuch.

Heh. I remember the time I got told off for bringing a Star Wars toy (boxed, just purchased) into the local GW. It was a total clampdown on non-40K stuff.

Then there was the fresh new blueshirt, at the time when the Necrons had recently been retconned from mindless C'tan slaves to scheming C'tan imprisoners, who didn't have a clue what the just-discontinued Pariah minis were.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on August 06, 2016, 06:00:53 PM
Quote from: Scurv on August 06, 2016, 09:44:28 AM
I get those missile boys up high. They cant be charged if they are 3 stories up sort of deal Fi.

Get the height to give you vision, range, protection, and all the bonus mods to the hits it brings.

Use a few of them.

Equip the captain and hero with pistols.

dont forget missile guys can carry hth weapons as well. Use your judgement on whether to have hth weapons or missile weapons readied.

If you keep the band to one or two groups you will be able to focus more damage on their individuals and chop them up piecemeal. Don't split up willy nilly for the stone.

A volley of fire to weaken or a few ranged shots from up high sniper style as they come in and then wack whack with the heavy hitters finishing them off.  

Alas, they didn't quite live long enough to see the dawn the market sold pistols...  ::)

I don't think it's quite the game for me though - I'm too focused on my dear characters while the game is about watching them become insane blind amputees before they finally die and are replaced by others destined for the same fate, like they're trapped in a realm of perpetual torment.


Quote from: Cubs on August 06, 2016, 01:13:09 PM
I think we may be talking at cross purposes. I was talking about the old Shadow of the Horned Rat game that was released on the Playstation. Have I shown my age once again?

Well, the first half of one of my earlier messages was about Shadow of the Hornet Rat while the other half was about Mordheim which likely caused some confusion.  ;)


Quote from: Vermis on August 06, 2016, 02:06:37 PM
My memories of it, from the Gog download, involve a control panel with almost unintelligible and undecipherable icons, and units that, when directed to attack an enemy unit (melee or shooting) did that for a few seconds, then turned round and headed in the opposite direction.

Good thing I haven't given that one another try then.  lol
Rites of War and Chaos Gate are the only ones I've tested so far... I think Final Liberation had live-acted cutscenes though, I should look into that some day.

Editty: Yup, Final Liberation sports live-action 40k videos. Available on Youtube for your viewing pleasure/horror.

Double edit: And there's apparently a new Deathwatch boxed game coming out with Space Marines versus Eldar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 24, 2016, 08:18:59 PM
So someone leaked images of a thousand sons sorcerer sprue. GW responded by posting up a video about the sprue and releasing the first tease of a new plastic kharn model.

They've also announced they will be live streaming their future tournaments and events.

and of course, theres puns like this...
https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/photos/a.235809753480677.1073741828.230219510706368/241127056282280/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/photos/a.235809753480677.1073741828.230219510706368/241127056282280/?type=3&theater)

The GW social media team are doing alot of work on all fronts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 24, 2016, 09:14:02 PM
Yep, and I can't say that's a bad thing.  They need to change and I see some of it happening.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 25, 2016, 08:45:00 PM
Sounds like a good step to interest their player base. Personally though I couldn't stand watching a 40k tournament live streamed, good for people developing strategy though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 26, 2016, 01:56:56 AM
That and I think the tournament scene is (sadly) where all the money is.  The love of the hobby is a distant second to selling a 17 year old kid five of the same tank so he can smash his buddies faces in as soon as he can glue them together and throw them on the table.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 26, 2016, 11:07:02 AM
Quote from: Elbows on August 26, 2016, 01:56:56 AM
That and I think the tournament scene is (sadly) where all the money is.  The love of the hobby is a distant second to selling a 17 year old kid five of the same tank so he can smash his buddies faces in as soon as he can [badly] glue them together and throw them on the table.

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 28, 2016, 05:06:59 PM
I looked at this and immediately thought 'Eisenhorn's gun-cutter'.

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120109002_CorvusBlackstar01.jpg)

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/deathwatch-corvus-blackstar
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 28, 2016, 08:13:10 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 26, 2016, 11:07:02 AM
Fixed that for you.

Nonsense, I've seen "pro painted" stuff on eBay.  It's been painted and assembled by pros...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 28, 2016, 11:54:12 PM
Professional somethings anyway...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on August 29, 2016, 12:12:04 AM
Quote from: Malebolgia on August 06, 2016, 01:43:52 PM
SothR was baaaaad. Played it to death on PC, but couldn't get past a skaven mission in a mountain pass. Always lost too much models, making the rest of the game impossible to complete. Which sucked because that was at about 80% in the game.
Sometimes I replayed missions 10+ times if the digital dice were against you (with the wizard's spells doing nothing for instance). Although I think the game was bad (DO was way better),  I still have good memories of it :)  

Admittedly it was a bit harsh, if you lost too many men you had to restart the mission or the game would let you carry on wih no hope of winning future battles. I completed it a few times although only ever after going through Zhufbar, I tried the other route a few times and never managed it.

The first time I finished the game I used a cheat (I was playing the PC version) that let your wizard cast spells again and again. I did eventually.finish it wihout the cheat although it was blooming difficult. Kids nowadays wouldn't stand for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 29, 2016, 01:15:18 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 28, 2016, 11:54:12 PM
Professional somethings anyway...

This is worth a look...

http://pro-painted.tumblr.com/

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 29, 2016, 09:10:43 AM
Oh my. They are... wonderful?
So if I got a professional painter to undercoat my minis. Would that count as pro painted?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 29, 2016, 12:36:22 PM
Yep, and you could sell them for $40 a figure!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on August 29, 2016, 03:16:48 PM
Quote from: Vermis on August 28, 2016, 05:06:59 PM
I looked at this and immediately thought 'Eisenhorn's gun-cutter'.

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120109002_CorvusBlackstar01.jpg)

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/deathwatch-corvus-blackstar

Wait until you see Inso converting it into a grymn dropship.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on August 29, 2016, 03:39:19 PM
Quote from: Ajsalium on August 29, 2016, 03:16:48 PM
Wait until you see Inso converting it into a grymn dropship.

I thought it already was one?  :D
(I wouldn't put it past the Inquisition to go scavenging after the Nids had their Short-n-Beardy All You Can Eat Buffet...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on August 29, 2016, 06:02:13 PM
"Filthy deviant-spawned heretical tech-trash! ... We'll take it."

Though on second thoughts, it might not make a good gun-cutter if this (http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?p=373813#p373813) or this (http://www.scholaprogenium.com/strmhawk.html) are supposed to be them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 30, 2016, 04:17:47 PM
Soo, looks like there is another version of kill team out in a months time. I like the idea, though there appears a strong suggestion you will once gain be drafting your forces from the normal codexi which might not be as balanced at they make it appear. Still I'm pretty happy to see GW support skirmish level games in even more shapes now, what with most of their board games being just that already.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 02, 2016, 09:53:04 AM
I just couldn't quite bring myself to subscribe to the new WD, but it's out. There's a review here - http://diceandbrush.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/review-white-dwarf-sept-2016-monthly-wd.html

Any thoughts/opinions from those who've got the new version?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 03, 2016, 01:55:22 AM
Very good value , with the miniature sweetening the deal (he's bloody massive!)
Solid battle reports, cool articles on modelling and miniature design, a very frank and open letters section, plenty of nostalgia and humor.

Reminds me of white dwarf when i started buying it around the late issue 200's.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on September 03, 2016, 02:18:43 AM
It's definitely worth the 8 euro's ( or whatever shells or peanuts everyone is using nowadays  ;) ) they ask for it. The free model alone seems to sell for 30 US$ - don't know the euro price - and the magazine offers modelling/painting tips, a showcase, some blahdieblah, some John Blanche artsy miniatures,  a bit looking back, rules for using the free model in Silver Tower, a battle report, tale of 4 gamers etc. etc.
I don't do GW anymore - at least not their mainstream games, but Goreslaughter and even Silver Tower are on the to-buy list - but it was entertaining and even sort of inspiring. No Lotr/Hobbitty stuff, though...
Oh, and I sort of ruined the free sprue c.q. model by cutting and breaking away too much already, but as said before, I hate sprues, especially when they break up a 28 mm Ogre sized miniature in 10 parts ( 11, because of my cutting skills  ;D. ). Wayyy overdone. The model itself is a bit static and a mixture between marine armour and some kind of Khornite barbarian, but with some cutting and puttying it should turn out ok-ish...
Yes, I will buy the next copy of WD...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on September 03, 2016, 10:06:06 AM
I'm not into GW anymore, but that actually looks an interesting read! I can see me buying this one to give it shot. Where can you get them in the UK these days? I know Tesco used to sell them, but I had a look last night and couldn't find it! It's not just being sold in the Games Workshop shops, is it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on September 03, 2016, 10:12:39 AM
It's only on general sale today so should be in the shops now. I think it's available in newsagents in the Uk, France and Germany.

I like it. It's a light read- no long articles or walls of text - but varied and lots of pretty pictures. The rules for all the boxed games are welcome too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on September 03, 2016, 10:45:09 AM
I thought it was alright. Don't know if I'd buy every issue but if there is a good painting or modelling article then I'd definitely pick the odd one up.

The free mini is nice, if not something I would normally buy.
The articles are a bit light, and for someone who hasn't kept up with GW for twenty ish years, a little confusing.
I am kind of amused by the advice column for readers to send in top quality photos of their minis, in a mag crammed with dark, cluttered, distant and top down pictures - everything they say to avoid!

Like I said, it's been a while so no idea of the current state of either fantasy or future universes (aside from a vague dislike of the AoS aesthetic), but when did the Deathwatch get to have whole armies? Isn't that kind of NOT THE POINT of them?

Overall not bad, but I've been out of the loop too long to get the most from it. That said, any more freebies would be most welcome.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 03, 2016, 01:24:50 PM
Quote from: JollyBob on September 03, 2016, 10:45:09 AM
Like I said, it's been a while so no idea of the current state of either fantasy or future universes (aside from a vague dislike of the AoS aesthetic), but when did the Deathwatch get to have whole armies? Isn't that kind of NOT THE POINT of them?

You should know the answer by now - the real point is to sell as many of them as possible, regardless of fluff. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 03, 2016, 01:42:58 PM
Yep, same thing with Grey Knights which are now an entire army etc...heck even Harlequins have their own codex and are their own army now.  Instead of putting these small units into larger codices they're double dipping and producing something like 25 codices at the moment. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 03, 2016, 09:09:10 PM
Yeah. I like how they were small specialised task forces. Always wanted a small legion of the damned unit that I read about in WD way back. Now they cost megabucks on eBay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on September 03, 2016, 09:46:50 PM
 I got my WD Today and it is quite good.The miniature is nice too.

 Free comic in the next issue.

 Tesco have it in which is a new one on me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vindice on September 04, 2016, 08:57:56 AM
I generally buy WI and WSS if there's anything in I'm interested in but I have to say for around the same price point White Dwarf is HUGE. Lovely quality paper as well.

I don't play enough GW to make it a worthwhile regular purchase but if you're even a bit interested in their stuff this is a must buy.

The miniature was fun but, as someone else said, humongous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on September 04, 2016, 09:08:11 AM
Yeah, humongous and not very useful unfortunately for someone who doesn't play GW. I can't think of a way to convert him into something useful! :?

The magazines good though. It's diffinately good that they reverted back to a better version of White Dwarf. And I did get it in Tesco for anybody interested in purchasing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on September 06, 2016, 08:18:09 AM
I will be using the figure as a chaos champion, eventually he will lead a unit of marauders. Yes, he towers over them, that's why he's the leader - I like variation in height, same is boring!

I would think he could be reasonably easily adapted to any kind of barbarian figure?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on September 06, 2016, 08:22:09 AM
Mine will make a fine Wasteland Raider leader, just swap that sword out for a AK and file the ball down to nice bowling ball, and remove the Knorne icons for a bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on September 06, 2016, 03:05:42 PM
 The miniature could be converted into a number of different genres or races.I have seen a great Post Apoc one done so far out of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blofeld on September 06, 2016, 09:49:12 PM
Its interesting and very un-GW like that they went back on their plan for the whole weekly editions and the imho awful Visions to the original format. Tempted to resubscribe as I stopped when there were only 5 words in English in the entire issue and you were paying an extra 3-4 quid for the privilege. The model is massive though! 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 07, 2016, 12:18:38 AM
Quote from: Scurv on September 06, 2016, 08:59:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZc6cr6G2E4

Nice 40k fan made animated movie.

The really nice bits are the parade vehicles and the cityscapes. Really captures the proper feel of the 40k universe.

Nice video, shame about the song.

Or for the long version: blimey those visuals are something else. Unbelievably good. :-* And then you have to listen to the voices of the Inquisition agent and his target... :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 07, 2016, 01:03:44 AM
Yeah, GW is "secretly" behind that project as well now, so that's both good and bad.  The voice acting needs a hell of a lot of work, and the gun shots were terrible sound bytes which I'm sure will be replaced.  Gets the feeling across pretty well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 07, 2016, 09:21:47 AM
I didn't notice the lip synch so much, but the target in particular sounds like a cross between Christopher Biggins and Roger Rabbit. :) It's like someone's OTT parody of what an upper-class twit (of the year) sounds like.

Elbows, when you say 'secretly behind it', you mean approving, or producing, or...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on September 07, 2016, 10:47:27 AM
I don't think this guy has nearly enough skulls on him. Has the throne of skulls run dry?

(https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture1/1131/71964fd7fd5b71c1a9cb3c6b1a74ceee_94383.jpeg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 07, 2016, 10:49:29 AM
Fluf wise it does make some sort of sense for those guys to be walking reliquaries, but I see your point.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 07, 2016, 10:55:49 AM
 lol The collectors card is skullz too!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Steve F on September 07, 2016, 11:26:52 AM
It's why they are at war all the time: they have to keep the supply of skullz flowing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 07, 2016, 02:00:53 PM
Quote from: Vermis on September 07, 2016, 09:21:47 AM
I didn't notice the lip synch so much, but the target in particular sounds like a cross between Christopher Biggins and Roger Rabbit. :) It's like someone's OTT parody of what an upper-class twit (of the year) sounds like.

Elbows, when you say 'secretly behind it', you mean approving, or producing, or...?

From what I understand, one of the GW Black Library writers is now writing for the film, etc.  So they're aware of it, supporting it and I don't think they're going to swing in with their legal team and crush it.  I'm not 100% sure about the depth of their involvement though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 07, 2016, 02:56:46 PM
Ah, ta.

Quote from: Elbows on September 07, 2016, 02:00:53 PM
I don't think they're going to swing in with their legal team and crush it.

 o_o Up is down and black is white.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 07, 2016, 03:27:45 PM
I think it's based entirely on "hey, this is free advertisement by a huge fan" and given the piss poor reception of their god awful "Ultramarines" movie flop, I'd imagine GW isn't planning on trying another film anytime soon.

It doesn't appear that the designer/producer is taking much liberty either with the appearance (i.e. it's all rather canonical), so they risk nothing.

The guy who is designing it works for Crytek(?) I believe, one of the larger companies behind video gaming software.  In fact the movie is actually built using a game-engine as opposed to normal CGI (I'm not sure how much of a difference there is).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 07, 2016, 05:07:23 PM
Don't mind me - still taken aback by the new, more open direction GW's going in. :)

Speaking of: I just saw this. GW advertising on the actual, honest-to-goodness telly!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pDlt40gNH04

Well, Hachette partworks advertising on the telly, but still.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 07, 2016, 07:11:33 PM
Bagged the magazine from smiths today (on my way home from working in a game store with the new white dwarf in my bag ..What's wrong with me?!)
The book is very nice, hard back, proper binding, colour pictures and timeline in the middle. It's a proper novel aswell, nothing skimped on.
The free gifts tempt me to subscribe for at least the first 5 issues.
I'll probably be picking it up in future!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vermis on September 07, 2016, 10:04:44 PM
I didn't pay enough attention to the ad to notice what's packaged with issue 1. I take it the novel's something already published by Black Library?

What else do you get if you subscribe? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 07, 2016, 11:14:14 PM
1st delivery is a free novel and notebook ,
then by your 4th delivery youve got bookeneds, a leather aquila notebook, a metal inquisition tankard and some 40k coasters.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: N.C.S.E on September 08, 2016, 04:49:42 AM
Off topic from current discussion, but in a bid to get a game at my university miniature wargame society (they all play 40k) I've got myself a 40k army (at last). Got an excellent 50% off deal on ebay for a pretty good selection of Vostroyan first born (the only figures in the entire 40k range I can stand!).

First impressions - damn the sculpts are good. Not the best I've seen, but damn near. Perhaps the best sculpts of rank and file infantry I've seen. Since they're all metal (and I love metal!) I'm really looking forward to getting these guys painted. After some rather humdrum steampunk figures with questionable sculpt quality I'm really looking forward to giving these guys an outing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 08, 2016, 09:18:01 AM
Quote from: nic-e on September 07, 2016, 11:14:14 PM
1st delivery is a free novel and notebook ,
then by your 4th delivery youve got bookeneds, a leather aquila notebook, a metal inquisition tankard and some 40k coasters.

I'm completely unsure if you are being sarcastic or sincere.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on September 08, 2016, 11:04:57 AM
I saw this in the local post office yesterday. £2 for a hardback 40k heresy novel seems pretty good. I tend to pick up books for reading in e format now as it's a pain trying to cram a few novels into carry luggage for travel with work etc. and as I have the paperbacks for the heresy series I gave this a miss. I also try to give collectors series and such like a miss as the 'completionist collector' in me takes over.

Still, if you have a long shelf which could support the weight of the series, this is quite a good quality product. With all the free gubbins like tankards and note pads as well, it's not a terrible price for what you get - especially for the grim dark fanboy. Shame that the books don't follow a linear plot but I guess cherry picking titles means that there is always a jump on point for folk to pick up hardbacks or special editions of something they want. In saying that though, the cover would seem out of place.

Anyhoo, overall not something for me, but can see the appeal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 09, 2016, 09:41:32 AM
I was fast forwarding through adverts last night when the 40k advert caught my eye. I briefly thought they were bringing Battlefleet Gothic back, given the space battle scene. It was a little disappointing to discover it was just for books.

The link to the subscription site and fluff is http://warhammer40klegends.com/, in case anyone's interested.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 09, 2016, 01:31:38 PM
The Battlefleet Gothic scene was likely from the recent computer game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 09, 2016, 04:01:09 PM
Fantasy Flight Games and GW parting ways - https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/9/9/a-new-path-forward/

Hopefully a friendly breakup, and not till Feb 28 next year, but that's a lot of titles that will be disappearing
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 09, 2016, 05:30:10 PM
Yeah that's brave...considering that their biggest source of income this year was from IP payments (ie. farming out the IP to video games, board games, cell phone games etc.).  Part of me thinks it's coming from FFG's side (I wouldn't want to work with GW if I was another company).  That or they're going to start bringing all of their boardgames in house - which doesn't bode well for the consumer.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 09, 2016, 08:57:02 PM
I'd better get some of those talisman expansions I've been wanting then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 09, 2016, 11:17:22 PM
hmm as of March 2018 - should we expect announcements of future releases under the resurrected "specialist games" of "new" imaginings  of all those boardgames?

Limited editions of course...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on September 10, 2016, 09:35:54 AM
So, in one stroke GW got rid of their most/only competent game designers?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on September 10, 2016, 09:37:47 AM
Was expecting this ever since Fantasy flight announced their fantasy massed battle game.
They're part of a much bigger beast now, Asmodee, and probably less likely to accept rules on what they may and may not produce.
Fantasy flight also currently has the biggest selling miniature game in X-wing.
It makes sense that they want more freedom in what the can make and the GW property is not as big a part of their profit as it used to be.

And as said GW is moving in on the boardgame market and will likely want more focus on their own products.

I don't really see a reason to see this as a parting on 'friendly' terms. They both stand to gain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on September 15, 2016, 08:02:16 AM
Quote from: Elbows on September 07, 2016, 03:27:45 PM
In fact the movie is actually built using a game-engine as opposed to normal CGI (I'm not sure how much of a difference there is).

Basically trading higher-end animation complexity (muscle simulation, fluid simulation, and the like), advanced lighting simulation ability, and some workflow efficiency for massive time/cost savings when it comes to rendering. Rendering can be a budget and schedule killer even on big studio productions, so this is a huge leg up for indies. In terms of trade offs, using a modern game engine for rendering can sort of be compared to shooting a live action movie on digital instead of film circa the late 90s/early 00s (the Canon XL1 era).

It's also a bit more accessible. A pro Hollywood/TV CG studio uses task-specialized programs costing tens of thousands of dollars in combined licencing, and often some percentage of in-house custom software too. A well kitted out and properly trained pro studio can do the same low-cost rendering a game engine can, and with better workflow efficiency, but that involves a much larger up-front investment of both money and training. A game engine has a much lower barrier to entry. Several of the big ones (like CryEngine and Unreal) offer some form of free hobbyist licencing. They have large support communities populated by both hobbyests and pro devs. And as a result of the things they need to do for games, they're decent all-in-one animation, basic physics sim, and rendering platforms.

There are free options (like Blender) which can technically do more and often better, but free programs tend to come with their own hurdles. The best ones are made by Sheldon Cooper/Maurice Moss types who don't have to satisfy paying clients, and thus can indulge their odd whims on what makes a good interface or system: powerful, but very dry and difficult to get into. Blender's a bad-ass piece of software that can do almost anything, but learning it kinda feels like learning to drive a Soviet submarine. Most however are perpetually half-finished and not a good working alternative unless one has literally no money. There's also some esoteric licencing conflicts that come into play when mixing pro and free software, which is why you don't see the likes of Blender used much in pro game or movie studios, despite it being feature-competitive with it's pro equivalents.

So for a hobbyist or fan doing an animated film in their spare time, a modern game engine is a great off-the-shelf solution for animated filmmaking, provided you're not going for 100% photorealism (they can get close enough to look pretty realistic in isolation, but not close enough to mix with actual live action elements). You can do the entire thing with basically a handful of apps on a single high-end gaming computer, with your biggest cost being the hardware for said computer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: bound for glory on September 16, 2016, 06:26:55 PM
I'm looking forword to Blood Bowl in December.

I have very nearly 2,000 blood bowl/fantasy football figures. I love the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on September 16, 2016, 06:40:38 PM
Bloody Hell!!
One thing I like about bloodbowl is that you need relatively few figures and here you have a BB collection rivalling my entire mini collection.
 :o

I'm not sure I'll buy it since my living rulebook print and old pitch work just fine, but if it's extremely good looking I could very well be tempted.
I love that stuff like that is coming back. I'm not coming back strait into 40k and AoS is strait out, but GW might be able to get some of my precious, precious hobby money if they keep this up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 16, 2016, 08:00:06 PM
If anyone is bored this is worth a look:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/579936.page

A really talented painter doing a beautifully unique Incan/Aztec based Space Marine force.  One of the best Space Marine forces I've seen in a long time.  Really, really cool attention to detail, not over-done.  Just exceptionally cool.  Worth a look.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 16, 2016, 08:01:44 PM
I hope they do a good job. I think though it will end up all too serious and not the fun looking game it was. I must get some more metal goblins for a goblin team. Love those guys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on September 17, 2016, 09:51:47 AM
Quote from: Elbows on September 16, 2016, 08:00:06 PM
If anyone is bored this is worth a look:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/579936.page

A really talented painter doing a beautifully unique Incan/Aztec based Space Marine force.  One of the best Space Marine forces I've seen in a long time.  Really, really cool attention to detail, not over-done.  Just exceptionally cool.  Worth a look.
Very nice. I'd toyed with this once, using lizardmen bits - this one is far less over the top and thus much better! Nice colours too.  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: bound for glory on September 17, 2016, 11:48:56 PM
Any guess as to how much the new Blood Bowl will cost? Over on DakkaDakka they are saying about $60usd.

I'm thinking much more than that.

Anyone?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 18, 2016, 01:50:03 AM
I have the first edition of the game (but the latest version of that edition, so it's all fluffed out and fixed).  It is truly fantastic.  I've heard less than stellar things about the sequel unfortunately.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: bound for glory on September 19, 2016, 02:47:36 PM
I've been into blood bowl since the first ed paper stand ups. I love the miniatures game, and my 13 year old son has the xbox game and the computer game.

I wish I could get him interested in the miniatures game.

That kid has been raised around miniatures, and he has zero interest in them.

My wife is painting Konflik '47 stuff for a custumer, and my son likes those, mayby I"ll get him some for xmas.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 19, 2016, 02:49:32 PM
Eh, that's a tough time.  At 13 he'll have a whole heap of competition for something he may not have any interest in.  My father was a big toy soldier fan, and a painter/modeler.  I developed into a modeler/gamer (though completely different genres etc.) and my brother did not.  No big deal.  I'd wait till he expresses genuine interest before spending too much money on it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: bound for glory on September 19, 2016, 05:22:54 PM
My wife and I just hope he does'nt get interested in the wrong things.

When I was 13, I went to a hardcore show and saw Minor Threat(1981), I then embraced Straight Edge, so I did'nt get into the wrong things.

Too much bad shit out there, these days.

Sorry if my profanity broke any rules, boys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: bound for glory on September 20, 2016, 07:00:57 AM
I hear you!

And can I presume that you were a skinhead, by your name pic?

I was  a skinhead from about 1983 to just before I joined the army in 1993.

I don't think there are any skins left in my country.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on September 24, 2016, 11:14:12 AM
I am not remotely engaged in the hobby these days but if I were I think I would be pleased to see the return of Genestealer Cults.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on September 24, 2016, 11:22:59 AM
They look like very nice kits. I'm glad I still haven't assembled the second half of my Overkill hybrids so I can mix in some different heads. The cute wee truck thing coming in a couple of weeks looks lovely too.

And Silver Tower character cards! https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Silver-Tower-Hero-Cards-ENG (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Silver-Tower-Hero-Cards-ENG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on September 24, 2016, 05:39:06 PM
The new Genestealer cult are nice, especially the saw-wielding model (nice to see an industrial tool instead of a chainsword!) - but £50 for 15 plastic models?!? Please tell me I'm missing something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on September 24, 2016, 05:43:59 PM
It is a shame that the recent flow of decent releases hasn't coincided with a sensible adjustment of prices. It's vastly overpriced merchandise.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on September 24, 2016, 07:27:31 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on September 24, 2016, 11:22:59 AM
......The cute wee truck thing coming in a couple of weeks looks lovely too........

What is this truck thing you mention??
 ??? ???

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on September 24, 2016, 07:50:34 PM
Quote from: Mason on September 24, 2016, 07:27:31 PM
What is this truck thing you mention??
 ??? ???



https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture1/1182/Screenshot_20160924-171817.png (https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture1/1182/Screenshot_20160924-171817.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 24, 2016, 08:13:59 PM
Truck doesn't look half-bad, but I'll be shocked if it's less than $35-40. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 24, 2016, 08:24:16 PM
Quote from: Elbows on September 24, 2016, 08:13:59 PM
Truck doesn't look half-bad, but I'll be shocked if it's less than $35-40. 

Well have to agree to disagree on that. I can't figure the point of the lower lying turret on the near side. Bad arc of travel and what for?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 24, 2016, 09:01:14 PM
Because 40K of course!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on September 24, 2016, 10:22:01 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on September 24, 2016, 07:50:34 PM
https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture1/1182/Screenshot_20160924-171817.png (https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture1/1182/Screenshot_20160924-171817.png)

Cheers.
 :D

That has potential.
Lets wait and see what the price point is, eh?
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 24, 2016, 10:56:46 PM
Doesn't look like a limo. If they brought out a limo I would be all over it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 25, 2016, 08:22:23 AM
Just be grateful it has wheels and is not based on the *shudder* Taurox Prime  (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Taurox-Prime)  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on September 25, 2016, 03:37:45 PM
Ughh shudder indeed, that Taurox prime should have been called the Prime Bollocks, horrid model and dont get me started on the imperial flyers the imperial guard valkyrie :-* I like but the rest :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on September 25, 2016, 03:44:41 PM
I quite like the taurox. I'd leave off the turret, all the guns and as much of the chintzy shit as possible and then I reckon I'd have a nice (but very daft) little truck thing. It's definitely grown on me since it was first released.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on September 25, 2016, 09:02:03 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on September 25, 2016, 03:44:41 PM
I quite like the taurox. I'd leave off the turret, all the guns and as much of the chintzy shit as possible and then I reckon I'd have a nice (but very daft) little truck thing. It's definitely grown on me since it was first released.

A friend of mine did almost exactly that.
A bright yellow PJ and it makes a great civvie construction-type vehicle.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on September 25, 2016, 09:15:24 PM
Talking of limos, there is a company that does one in resin but I forgot which. Can anyone remind me?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 25, 2016, 10:14:41 PM
Can't remember myself but I do remember the pricetag  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on September 25, 2016, 10:16:52 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on September 25, 2016, 09:15:24 PM
Talking of limos, there is a company that does one in resin but I forgot which. Can anyone remind me?

http://wargameexclusive.com/product-category/heresy-hunters/

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Leftblank on September 27, 2016, 07:35:34 PM
Blog http://amsterdam6shooters.nl/node/838 (http://amsterdam6shooters.nl/node/838)
[Summary] Fantasy wargamers are drama queens. They loooove horrible monsters, chivalrous knights and bright colours. They either love or hate Games Workshop - no reasonable inbetween, if I might believe the forums. And they looove the fear or hope that GW will die. The Downfall Of An Empire. Death Of A King. That storyline.

Personally I'm not really into fantasy - Napoleon is my hero, not a fictional Sigmar on a gryphon - but I'm very interested in how the top companies try to dominate the market and what their strategies are. Just like football: I don't play it, but I just can't get enough of football stats and formation stuff. So I happen to follow Games Workshop. And what do GW's results tell us? I tried to figure out.

(http://www.workforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/WF_041415_DeathofSalesman_680x300.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on September 29, 2016, 07:00:04 AM
Quote from: Mason on September 25, 2016, 10:16:52 PM
http://wargameexclusive.com/product-category/heresy-hunters/



Thanks Mason, that was it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 29, 2016, 02:37:44 PM
I know it's probably been said but £125 for stealer codex and £75 for 15 figures, :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 29, 2016, 02:39:58 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on September 29, 2016, 02:37:44 PM
I know it's probably been said but £125 for stealer codex and £75 for 15 figures, :o


That would be the limited edition 1.000 copies world wide right?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 29, 2016, 02:40:02 PM
Holy crap sticks...is that some limited edition nonsense?  Who pays $150+ for a book?  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 29, 2016, 04:25:05 PM
I think this is the beasty - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Genestealer-Cults-Ltd-Ed

- the full-colour 104-page Codex: Genestealer Cults;
- the 32-page How To Paint Citadel Miniatures: Genestealer Cults;
- 36 Tactical Objective cards;
- 7 psychic powers cards
- a double-sided poster featuring Genestealer Cults artwork
- 6 Tactical Objective markers, in the shape of Genestealer Cult icons.

Still doesn't seem even remotely worth it, and I quite like the genestealer side of things.

32 pages of "paint it purple" seems a tad much as well o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 29, 2016, 04:43:48 PM
That's at least better than a book, but yeah...nooo bueno for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 29, 2016, 10:51:16 PM
Quote from: zemjw on September 29, 2016, 04:25:05 PM
I think this is the beasty - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Genestealer-Cults-Ltd-Ed

- the full-colour 104-page Codex: Genestealer Cults;
- the 32-page How To Paint Citadel Miniatures: Genestealer Cults;
- 36 Tactical Objective cards;
- 7 psychic powers cards
- a double-sided poster featuring Genestealer Cults artwork
- 6 Tactical Objective markers, in the shape of Genestealer Cult icons.

Still doesn't seem even remotely worth it, and I quite like the genestealer side of things.

32 pages of "paint it purple" seems a tad much as well o_o
Yeah £115 hit wrong button earlier even if it's only 1000 copies still bit OTT. I like the era the stealer cult come from,but this is almost as bad as people charging silly money for OOP figures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 30, 2016, 12:09:31 AM
OOP minis are cheaper I think. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 30, 2016, 06:28:37 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 30, 2016, 12:09:31 AM
OOP minis are cheaper I think. lol
Yeah probably  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 30, 2016, 08:29:38 AM
Wel the website claims less then 60 left so we won't need to discuss that set for long anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 30, 2016, 09:22:54 AM
Quote from: YPU on September 30, 2016, 08:29:38 AM
Wel the website claims less then 60 left so we won't need to discuss that set for long anymore.
Yeah but there's independant shops that will bought copies as well,so that's probably why GW have not many left.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on September 30, 2016, 09:25:56 AM
10 3rd and 4th fen hybrids for 25 quid seems decent price, considering the detail on these plastic minis.

The other stuff, not so much..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on September 30, 2016, 04:09:13 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on September 30, 2016, 09:22:54 AM
Yeah but there's independant shops that will bought copies as well,so that's probably why GW have not many left.

Or GW just ran them through a shredder.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 01, 2016, 01:58:50 PM
Gw getting into battlemats  (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/search/searchResults.jsp?qty=com.gamesworkshop.endeca.EndecaUserContext%403ca48e61&sorting=&view=&Ntt=Battlemat)

4' x 4', £50 for the basic mat
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 01, 2016, 02:23:38 PM
What a silly one to start with...but GW gonna GW.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on October 01, 2016, 03:45:23 PM
The truck's official price seems to be 46 Euros.
Can't really make up my mind about it. It does look like something that'd fit in with my planned renegade IG group...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on October 02, 2016, 07:25:49 AM
No waaay! That truck is bordering on 'useful'! :o There's even no skulls on it! :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on October 02, 2016, 05:30:25 PM
Quote from: Andym on October 02, 2016, 07:25:49 AM
No waaay! That truck is bordering on 'useful'! :o There's even no skulls on it! :o

Thought the same and at discount price only £28.00 including the four crewmembers. Not too bad so might grab one for generic scifi usage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on October 02, 2016, 05:59:16 PM
Quote from: Andym on October 02, 2016, 07:25:49 AM
No waaay! That truck is bordering on 'useful'! :o There's even no skulls on it! :o

I'm in two minds myself - with some minor modifications and maybe a trailer, it could become a nice Cursed Earth vehicle. I already got one of the Taurox thingies when they were released for the same purpose. May need to revisit that thought.

Still, I'm not 100% sold yet. I was much more 'wowed' by that Inquisition dropship they released last month.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 02, 2016, 07:14:10 PM
Quote from: Belgian on October 02, 2016, 05:30:25 PM
Thought the same and at discount price only £28.00 including the four crewmembers. Not too bad so might grab one for generic scifi usage.

That is exactly what I have been thinking.
Easy to convert too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on October 03, 2016, 08:16:30 PM
Found a slightly cheaper source Alchemists Workshops £26.50 on Twitter.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on October 05, 2016, 12:37:17 PM
Anybody seen the points loyalty card? Spend over £10 get a stamp, get 8 or 10 stamps to get the awesome privilege of purchasing...PURCHASING a limited edition plastic terminator chaplain skull head chap.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 05, 2016, 03:16:59 PM
Yep...and I suspect that will work a treat with most people.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 05, 2016, 04:02:06 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on October 05, 2016, 12:37:17 PM
Anybody seen the points loyalty card? Spend over £10 get a stamp, get 8 or 10 stamps to get the awesome privilege of purchasing...PURCHASING a limited edition plastic terminator chaplain skull head chap.....

 lol lol lol

Ya gotta laugh....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 06, 2016, 08:51:45 PM
If you tag your Instagram posts with #PaintingWarhammer, they may end up on the GW website - announcement (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Gallery)

Wonder how many of my decades out of production stuff would end up there. Besides, I don't do Instagram, so there's that :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on October 07, 2016, 08:53:09 AM
Annnnd not a bad paint job in sight  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 07, 2016, 08:56:18 AM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on October 07, 2016, 08:53:09 AM
Annnnd not a bad paint job in sight  ::)

Yea they must be moderating them. Or Instagram has a culture of bad paint job shaming, I don't know.

I know it's childish and all that but I have a urge to start posting all sorts of non-gw models with that hashtag now.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 07, 2016, 09:00:20 AM
 lol

Do it  :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 07, 2016, 06:19:07 PM
Stumbled upon this 5-years-in-progress ridiculous scratch build by Mr. Hicks...

http://eldar.arhicks.co.uk/miniatures/eldar/craftworld/pegasus_1.php

Mind freakin' blown.  Absolutely absurd. Worth looking at - even if you're not a fan of panzees. :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 07, 2016, 06:28:39 PM
Quote from: Elbows on October 07, 2016, 06:19:07 PM
Mind freakin' blown. 

This, damn.  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on October 07, 2016, 07:14:00 PM
To quote a classic,
"That boy's got talent"  :).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on October 08, 2016, 09:45:15 AM
Talent.
And way more patience than me....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: bound for glory on October 08, 2016, 09:55:43 AM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on October 07, 2016, 07:14:00 PM
To quote a classic,
"That boy's got talent"  :).

I gue3s the guy with over 2,000 blood bowl/fantasy football figures SHOULD know where you got that, right?

Love those special play cards!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on October 10, 2016, 07:27:04 PM
First plastic Primarch?

(http://i665.photobucket.com/albums/vv18/onlyonepinman/Miscellaneous%20Miniatures/FB_IMG_1476122446301_zpsla08p5qo.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 10, 2016, 10:59:45 PM
Is there an excuse for him to be present in 40K or is this a 30K-tie-in, or perhaps an indication of 8th edition?

PS: Who doesn't like horntits?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 11, 2016, 02:07:23 AM
It's legit, by the way.  The guys at Warhammer TV confirmed it (and inserted a joke/tease about Sisters of Battle in plastic?).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on October 11, 2016, 09:02:13 AM
Quote from: Elbows on October 10, 2016, 10:59:45 PM
Is there an excuse for him to be present in 40K or is this a 30K-tie-in, or perhaps an indication of 8th edition?

A few weeks ago GW teasered artwork for an upcoming release which depicts Tzeentch vessels (Silver Towers?) assaulting the Space Wolves' homeworld. A Chaos incursion on Fenris - and an orbital bombardment by a Dark Angels fleet - has been a thing in the background already. As well as a "flickering" Astronomican, which indicates a serious malfunction of the Golden Throne and might have encouraged another Black Crusade. And this latest teaser seems to confirm a rumoured return of the Primarchs.

So it's all set for 40k Endtimes(TM). Seriously looking forward to it. Although that garish Magnus model looks as silly as his last incarnation. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on October 11, 2016, 12:42:26 PM
I was reading on the website about the fluff for the stealer cult,using the mining equipment from some remote or backward world,and converting it for war,really liked it, and the vehicles don't seem to badly priced,I just don't really like the miniatures .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on October 11, 2016, 01:15:02 PM
Is it horntits or tithorns?  There's a very important difference...

Today's mission is to find someone to call a "tithorn".  Off to Dakka it is then...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on October 11, 2016, 01:25:13 PM
I like it, I think, will decide properly when we see more angles. The nice thing is that it's not too 40K so could easily be used in a fantasy army. A contender for a greater daemon, for those who are none too keen on the scrawny chicken vibe. I could see him leading my Tzeentch troops into battle, if the price is not too high (so not much chance there then).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 11, 2016, 01:27:06 PM
Quote from: Mad Doc Morris on October 11, 2016, 09:02:13 AM
So it's all set for 40k Endtimes(TM). Seriously looking forward to it. Although that garish Magnus model looks as silly as his last incarnation. :?

Endtimes? Yay! paints me Stormcasts Blue and renames them as UltraCast StormMarines of Sigmar the Eternal Empra!?!

8th Edition sphere based mania of sci-fi v fantasy etc AOS gaming, so everyone can skirmish whatever they want forces from any Warhammer line?

New Magnus needs some more... skulls...? maybe hanging on chains from his tithorn/horntits?

But wow look the ones on his face mask. He certainly is horny in this version

Quote from: Momotaro on October 11, 2016, 01:15:02 PM
Is it horntits or tithorns?  There's a very important difference...

Today's mission is to find someone to call a "tithorn".  Off to Dakka it is then...

Don't blow it.

Or... are they nipplehorns?

Silly aside, I quite like it, but need to see more detail and the  :o Price  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 11, 2016, 01:38:16 PM
They could also be spearbazooms.   lol

Either way, I'd quite like to see the story for 40K moved.  You could leave almost all the books/forces as they are, but the story should indeed move.  The next 30K boxed game is Tzeentch vs. Space Wolves, so new 40K stuff could be joined by the 30K plastics (there is apparently a plastic Ahriman in the boxed game from the 30K era, etc.). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on October 13, 2016, 12:01:49 AM
Magnus is around in the 40th millenium. He is a daemon prince so i think he hangs around for ever. I am kind of pleased because I always liked the original idea of thousand sons as being mutants with Magnus in charge.

He looks ridculous. but at least he isnt a big red monkey carrying a giant babies rattle like the original epic version.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 13, 2016, 05:06:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZP2u1ePaHc

Pushfit minis.
Peg hole for the ball.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on October 13, 2016, 02:05:50 PM
The orcs look nice... though I am torn between picking up BB or Guild Ball.

There is now a BB website too: http://www.bloodbowl.com/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 14, 2016, 08:44:48 AM
Quote from: Timbor on October 13, 2016, 02:05:50 PM
The orcs look nice... though I am torn between picking up BB or Guild Ball.

There is now a BB website too: http://www.bloodbowl.com/

BB is a rather elaborate old-school-design boardgame played with wargame miniatures. Players' roles are as much team mangers as they are coaches.

GB is a modern-style sports-themed skirmish game played with display models. Players' role is pretty much the teams' coaches.

I personally prefer the latter (delicacy of the models notwithstanding) because I find the intricacies of the game mechanics more interesting and engaging.
However, I can completely understand why the former might be more appealing, especially for people who like the larger number of models on a team and the campaign/sports season aspect of the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on October 14, 2016, 09:06:32 AM
Bloodbowl looks awesome...but it is still Bloodbowl. Never really liked the game. Too slow, too unforgiving, too unbalanced. I did like the wackiness of it, but the rules just aren't my thing. Especially since I discovered Dreadball.
But for the fans this must be an awesome new box, but is it compatible with the old one (with the new pitch and measuring stick)? Would be terrible if it changed all ranges and stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on October 14, 2016, 10:13:14 AM
Ranges are changed, as each square is bigger (meaning you can actually keep a big miniature inside its square.

Quote from: Malebolgia on October 14, 2016, 09:06:32 AM
too unforgiving

Nuffle loves everyone equally.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 14, 2016, 02:36:53 PM
Prices of Guildball figures will also make you blush... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 14, 2016, 04:24:25 PM
Burning of Prospero contents:

(http://i.imgur.com/Zruz6AK.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on October 14, 2016, 04:58:09 PM
Interesting - pity they didn't include Magnus himself here.
Is it my eyesight, or are those custodians rather similar to Age of Sigmar stuff?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 14, 2016, 05:33:33 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on October 14, 2016, 04:58:09 PM
Interesting - pity they didn't include Magnus himself here.
Is it my eyesight, or are those custodians rather similar to Age of Sigmar stuff?


Well they're big and gold.

I'm a bit worried the Custodians might have the most ridiculous weapons GW have ever made. Those sword things... Have to wait and see.

Now I'm hopeful that next October they'll do a set with MkV armour. Always liked that one, but not really the Forgeworld version.

Edit: Here's a video: https://youtu.be/VVB1PbwDhf0 (https://youtu.be/VVB1PbwDhf0) Looks rather nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 14, 2016, 07:28:05 PM
I think the figures look quite good, and I really, really like the Ahriman there.  I'm tempted to pick up a set simply because I like the old Space Marine armour --- and the Tartaros(?) terminators look far more interesting than the Cataphractii, etc.

More importantly this is just good news for Horus Heresy gamers.  Combining this with BaC and you'd have a great overall force to run in HH, etc. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on October 14, 2016, 07:36:49 PM
The video DOES show them more clearly - not quite AoS, but there are some style similarities.
All is not yet dust - nice touch; as is making the Thousand Sons the victims in the video.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 14, 2016, 07:41:30 PM
Yep, they've done a good job overall in the books etc. with the Horus Heresy showing how (at least initially) the eventual Chaos forces really did think they were doing the right thing/just thing/smart thing, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 14, 2016, 09:35:43 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on October 14, 2016, 07:36:49 PM
The video DOES show them more clearly - not quite AoS, but there are some style similarities.
All is not yet dust - nice touch; as is making the Thousand Sons the victims in the video.


TBH though they did always look that way in their art.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on October 14, 2016, 10:21:43 PM
Quote from: YPU on October 14, 2016, 09:35:43 PM
TBH though they did always look that way in their art.


And I'm glad they stuck to that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 14, 2016, 11:36:54 PM
The BoC set got my attention, I just did not really like the Termies and the Dread was so stiff, but the contants of this box is REALLY tempting me.
 8) 8)





And I honestly thought that I was completely done with GW, but this MAY tempt me...... :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Doomsdave on October 15, 2016, 09:38:03 AM
This is really exciting for me.  The new trend at GW has brought me back.  I loved the Calth set.  This one is definitely on my list.  Did anyone else notice the Sister of Silence in that vid?  I am absolutely drooling over the tease about plastic SoBs though. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 15, 2016, 12:59:50 PM
So...  What happened to the new mail order thing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 15, 2016, 06:09:12 PM
Here's the first "Made to Order".... underwhelmed.  I'm not sure who 'ordered' this choice, but it's nothing exciting at all, and the prospect of paying double for minis I had a decade or two ago is not exciting in the least...

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Warhammer-40-000?Nu=product.repositoryId&Nao=12&N=102317+2322890120&qty=12&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=cat440130a-flat
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 15, 2016, 06:47:37 PM
Can you blame GW though?  There is a thriving Oldhammer market who is buying stuff for occasionally ridiculous prices on eBay.  I can't fault them for it at all --- and if I was in dire need of a certain model or two I'd probably be tempted.

I think it's pretty genius of GW cashing in on this phenomenon.

PS: I see this as a bonus as well because it will curtail some of the eBay insanity (though it'll return as these made-to-order are limited time only, and plenty of people will buy them and flip them for 150-200% of the cost later on eBay anyway).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 15, 2016, 07:19:18 PM
Well they are in metal. Should do the same but with necromunda. I'd love to see old WFB
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 15, 2016, 09:21:26 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on October 14, 2016, 05:33:33 PM
I'm a bit worried the Custodians might have the most ridiculous weapons GW have ever made. Those sword things... Have to wait and see.

Yup, the Custodes sword (a broaaaad sword and a stormbolter!) is indeed the most ridiculous weapon GW have ever made. lol

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2016/10/15/80d1f9000539e6d064f4df9d66ff6403_85311.jpg (http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2016/10/15/80d1f9000539e6d064f4df9d66ff6403_85311.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 15, 2016, 10:52:31 PM
Beefcake, just a heads up - one of the "made to order guys" was listed as finecast, so be sure to look closely before too much consideration!  I would actually be damn tempted to get a Necromunda gang if that happened --- the metal Kasrkin squad (great figures) is $41 for a 10 man squad.  Not brilliant, but I'd pay $40 for a Necromunda squad in metal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 15, 2016, 11:22:25 PM
Ahh. I only looked at the Kasrkin squad. Sadly with the expected re-release of necromunda I doubt we'll see them any time soon. Although maybe after Necromunda is released they might re-release the old gangs shortly after. Which would be a good move I would think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 15, 2016, 11:34:00 PM
Quote from: Elbows on October 15, 2016, 06:47:37 PM
Can you blame GW though?  There is a thriving Oldhammer market who is buying stuff for occasionally ridiculous prices on eBay.  I can't fault them for it at all --- and if I was in dire need of a certain model or two I'd probably be tempted.

I think it's pretty genius of GW cashing in on this phenomenon.

PS: I see this as a bonus as well because it will curtail some of the eBay insanity (though it'll return as these made-to-order are limited time only, and plenty of people will buy them and flip them for 150-200% of the cost later on eBay anyway).

Funny enough, I've been buying and selling on eBay quite a lot the last few weeks, and something that has struck me is how quiet the market is on the 'Oldhammer' stuff at the moment. I don't know if this is a temporary phenomenon or part of a trend, but the silly BIN prices are still there, yet the actual sold lots seem to be going for much less than a year or so ago.

I picked up a model for £8 last week that went for £40 a few months ago (there's one that's been asking £120 on a BIN for as long as I can remember). I'm trying to sell a lot at the mo for a little over £2 per model and not a nibble. It seems almost ... deserted right now. Maybe it's just a result of the silly BIN prices driving buyers away so there's less 'passing trade' on the other stuff. Or maybe it's that the bulk of the Oldhammer trading has moved onto dedicated sites where you get people buying and selling for reasonable prices. Who knows. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 16, 2016, 01:17:58 AM
Yep, I concur. I've sold $2700+ worth of old metals for a friend (ex-GW store manager) over the past few months, and the prices are not criminal...and some stuff is hard to shift.  However, I think with so many projects going on, I suspect there are plenty of people willing to pay $12-15 to get a figure to complete their set, or a squad or army etc.  I think the Oldhammer trading sites on Facebook are more productive.  While Oldhammer is a big movement as far as enthusiasm goes a lot of that is directed at people pulling boxed armies out of an attic and painting those, vs. buying them.

It is worth noting that the Oldhammer stuff in the UK is far more reasonable than anything here in the states.  You guys have far more stuff sitting around in shops/attics than we do in the states.  Some stuff is rare as hens teeth here, and I see people in the UK saying "Well I swung by the charity shop and picked up this box full of minis for a tenner...".  We find nothing like that here unless you raid a buddy's old stash!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on October 16, 2016, 01:55:21 AM
I picked up two like new Specialty Sets Warriors of Law and Warriors of Chaos for less than 30 each.  So that's about 3 per mini and they were never painted.  Plus the boxes and inserts. I think in a moment of craziness I paid 15 just for Harry the Hammer... in far worse shape.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 16, 2016, 03:39:55 AM
I think they'd have been better off doing Fantasy first, because that's where the real fanatics are (namely because a lot of those model lines are dead).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 16, 2016, 10:57:21 AM
Quote from: Elbows on October 16, 2016, 01:17:58 AM
 However, I think with so many projects going on, I suspect there are plenty of people willing to pay $12-15 to get a figure to complete their set, or a squad or army etc.

True. I paid £15 for the (admittedly quite rare) champion from the Orc Black Mountain Boys Regiment of Renown, whereas I'd paid around £3-ish for each of the other models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on October 16, 2016, 11:44:37 AM
Yeah, the prices of 80's and 90's Citadel stuff seem to go down to a more realistic level, probably due to the fact that a: the collector market again is saturated and b: AoS is there to stay and KoW or the 9th Age aren't that big yet.
I think it's a good thing GW re-releases their classics, I like to be able to buy what I want when I want it, the only thing is the price asked, and I won't pay their prices for a specific model, since my want list is too long already...
But GW is doing something right at the moment, it seems, and that's a good thing  :).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 16, 2016, 02:05:05 PM
Yep, I feel fortunate that Eldar hardly ever get new models so I've been able to find a crap ton of 2nd ed. models on eBay (not for cheap, but available).  If I played an army with more characters or limited models/figures I'd be stoked about the chance to pick up some long lost heroes...but alas the entire Eldar range is pretty much available second hand.

Now, as I said before - if Necromunda/Mordheim appear...that could spell a little trouble for me.  lol  I'd also like some metal arbites if they make them available (would be a great mix with the new Genestealer Cult stuff ----I think that should have been the actual boxed game for Deathwatch personally).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 16, 2016, 02:07:44 PM
Quote from: Elbows on October 16, 2016, 02:05:05 PM

Now, as I said before - if Necromunda/Mordheim appear...that could spell a little trouble for me.  lol  I'd also like some metal arbites if they make them available (would be a great mix with the new Genestealer Cult stuff ----I think that should have been the actual boxed game for Deathwatch personally).


Ooh I have to agree, that would have made a interesting combo.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on October 17, 2016, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Cubs on October 15, 2016, 11:34:00 PM
Maybe it's just a result of the silly BIN prices driving buyers away so there's less 'passing trade' on the other stuff. Or maybe it's that the bulk of the Oldhammer trading has moved onto dedicated sites where you get people buying and selling for reasonable prices. Who knows.  

As an occasional (OK, a "more than I ought to") eBay buyer over the last couple of years, I've noticed a mass abandonment of the "start at 99p and see how you go" model. It strikes me as very poor psychology on the part of sellers. Rather than hook people with 99p and then have them go "OK, so it's still less than a pint and will give me more entertainment ... OK, so it's still less than an expensive pint ...", current practice prices out fairly disciplined buyers (like me) straight away. And by pricing out some buyers, you're taking pressure off the rest.

There also seem to be many more lots on "eternal rotation". I'm particularly amused by various Grenadier lots that have been coming round for at least a year and which are all still available new and cheaper from Mirliton.

Comparative rarities like Trish Morrison beastmen and lizardmen always seem to go for pretty hefty prices in the end, so I wonder why people start them at a tenner only to get zero bids for week after week.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 17, 2016, 09:53:57 PM
Don't get me started on eBay computer pricing programs...those things are hilarious. Unfortunately, while good for eBay, it's now just a competitor to Amazon and no longer the source of quality deals between normal people.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 17, 2016, 11:28:29 PM
Quote from: Elbows on October 16, 2016, 02:05:05 PM

Now, as I said before - if Necromunda/Mordheim appear...that could spell a little trouble for me.  lol  I'd also like some metal arbites if they make them available (would be a great mix with the new Genestealer Cult stuff ----I think that should have been the actual boxed game for Deathwatch personally).

Also agree. Arbites would be awesome. They go for silly money on eBay. I always really like those minis but it was before I was able to afford the minis I wanted, when I wanted... so childhood lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on October 18, 2016, 05:20:33 PM
Why are the Arbites soo expensive? I've used some as proxy judges for my 2000AD project as (I thought)a cheap option to save buying proper judges!

(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10-18%2011.00.21_zpszenfr0jq.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10-18%2011.00.21_zpszenfr0jq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on October 18, 2016, 05:42:08 PM
Ooooo, those are nice...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on October 18, 2016, 06:06:21 PM
I feel like ebay has lost a ton of value/interest for me as a buyer since their 'global shipping program' was implemented. Sure there is the odd seller that offers regular postal options, but I hardly ever go on ebay anymore... for that reason mostly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on October 18, 2016, 06:36:09 PM
Quote from: beefcake on October 17, 2016, 11:28:29 PM
Arbites would be awesome. They go for silly money on eBay.

Really? I have a couple of blisters, somewhere... hmmm... nah... probably gonna keep 'em...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 18, 2016, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: Timbor on October 18, 2016, 06:06:21 PM
I feel like ebay has lost a ton of value/interest for me as a buyer since their 'global shipping program' was implemented. Sure there is the odd seller that offers regular postal options, but I hardly ever go on ebay anymore... for that reason mostly.

Oh that program is the worst and sellers who use it are the dumbest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 18, 2016, 07:58:36 PM
Quote from: Argonor on October 18, 2016, 06:36:09 PM
Really? I have a couple of blisters, somewhere... hmmm... nah... probably gonna keep 'em...
lol yeah, well "go" probably wasn't the best word to use. Maybe I should have said "are up for sale but very rarely sell..."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 29, 2016, 10:23:59 AM
Latest battlemat (Khorne Dominion) available for pre-order link  (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/AOS-Battle-Mat-Khorne-Dominion)  £50 for the basic mat, a lot more if you want a couple of bits of scenery with it.

Burning of Prospero is available for £90, with a variety of addons, such as a painting guide or White Dwarf. They charge extra to chuck in a copy of WD o_o

All pre orders here  (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/New-Exclusive?Nu=product.repositoryId&N=3069862953+3252425321&qty=12&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=catnewexclusive)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 29, 2016, 09:13:49 PM
Quote from: zemjw on October 29, 2016, 10:23:59 AM
Latest battlemat (Khorne Dominion) available for pre-order link  (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/AOS-Battle-Mat-Khorne-Dominion)  £50 for the basic mat, a lot more if you want a couple of bits of scenery with it.

Burning of Prospero is available for £90, with a variety of addons, such as a painting guide or White Dwarf. They charge extra to chuck in a copy of WD o_o

All pre orders here  (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/New-Exclusive?Nu=product.repositoryId&N=3069862953+3252425321&qty=12&sorting=rec&view=table&categoryId=catnewexclusive)

Comapny charges extra for more products? Madness.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 30, 2016, 02:08:00 AM
Wow... That battlemat is... $#!7
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 30, 2016, 03:52:08 AM
And again GW is so hooked on their own IP they create silly battlemats which are completely useless for other games (and quite terrible to look at if I'm honest).  They missed the boat incredibly with these mats, but I imagine plenty of fans will still buy them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 30, 2016, 04:30:47 AM
Not only useless for other gamers (which I can understand, they want to promote their brand) but useless if you aren't fielding a Khorne army. So I can only imagine Khorne people buying this. Why not make a generic Chaotic battlemat with lava streams and the like. Something I would still never buy but it would appeal to a wider variety of GW gamers I imagine.
Just glad I backed Axe and Brimstone for one much much cheaper.
Half that mat looks unsuable as it is covered in Lava. Do you have to have special rules (purchased at extra cost) that allow your units to have special Boots that let them walk on Lava? Or is it really just decoration to put your minis on. I'm not sure they really understand what a gaming mat is meant to be used for.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 30, 2016, 11:06:43 AM
They missed out a trick on their marketing blurb.

'You can even flip it over and use the plain reverse side for a proper game'

 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 30, 2016, 12:25:30 PM
Ah, clever.  When the lava cools and becomes hardened and black...you flip it over?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: rebelyell2006 on October 30, 2016, 08:40:57 PM
Or you can use the rubber reverse side to open stubborn jars and bottles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 30, 2016, 08:57:28 PM
We had better be careful.
If they get wind of all these inbuilt 'extra features' the price will go up....


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 30, 2016, 09:31:32 PM
I don't think we need to worry.  If they have a product that is selling, it'll become limited edition real quick.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 31, 2016, 12:23:57 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 29, 2016, 09:13:49 PM
Comapny charges extra for more products? Madness.

Insanity for sure. Much like designing a battle mat for AoS players rather than appealing to people who don't play AoS and have little interest in GW products full stop. ;)  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 31, 2016, 06:55:04 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on October 31, 2016, 12:23:57 PM
Insanity for sure. Much like designing a battle mat for AoS players rather than appealing to people who don't play AoS and have little interest in GW products full stop. ;)  lol

I can see the responses now. "GW made a mat that is perfect for my needs! DAMN THEM< i refuse to buy it!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 01, 2016, 07:09:25 AM
Is that new DLC (not free I imagine?)
Do you have them. Are they any good?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 01, 2016, 01:10:38 PM
Got my copy of Burning of Prospero today. The figures are technically great as usual. I've only assembled one Sister of Silence so far, but I like her a lot more than I'd expected from seeing the photos. She's pretty big though, the same height as a Mk4 space marine in a similar pose. Amusingly, in the latest White Dwarf the sculptor said 'my first goal was to get their scale right compared to the space marines'. It's a bit of a shame as the recent Genestealer Hybrids seemed to suggest GW were reducing their 'human' figures in size, while also making Space Marines a bit bigger with the Deathwatch. Maybe the Mk3 marines are larger than Mk4.

Not convinced by the rules on first look. Nothing seems particularly coherent; first there's a card games for the psychic phase, then one player move all their figures followed by the other, then players alternate taking activations for shooting and combat. Why not alternate movement? I'm assuming there must be a reason but it's hardly an elegant turn sequence.

None of it seems half as neat as Betrayal at Calth, which I really enjoyed. Hopefully White Dwarf will include rules for retro fitting some of the Prospero stuff into the earlier game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 01, 2016, 07:15:15 PM
The only thing which genuinely shocked me was that the game was not compatible with BaC.  Seemed like a no-brainer to create a linked series of games...but alas it was not so.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 01, 2016, 07:59:32 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 01, 2016, 01:10:38 PM

Not convinced by the rules on first look. Nothing seems particularly coherent; first there's a card games for the psychic phase, then one player move all their figures followed by the other, then players alternate taking activations for shooting and combat. Why not alternate movement? I'm assuming there must be a reason but it's hardly an elegant turn sequence.


"So what kind of activation are we going to use, cards? Alternating? IGUGO?"
"Yes."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 07, 2016, 01:32:03 PM
Just preordered blood bowl from local games store release date is 25th Nov.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on November 07, 2016, 02:14:13 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on November 07, 2016, 01:32:03 PM
Just preordered blood bowl from local games store release date is 25th Nov.

Thanks for the reminder, placed my order to FLGS as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 12, 2016, 10:19:30 AM
Just saw it on GW site $195nz for base game, or I could pre-order from wayland games (and get sent from a UK address and probably save $50. The teams look fairly priced... comparatively
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 12, 2016, 10:48:12 AM
My local store can discount GW items I had it for 58.50
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 12, 2016, 09:48:07 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on November 12, 2016, 10:48:12 AM
My local store can discount GW items I had it for 58.50

£52 at Wayland.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 13, 2016, 08:27:07 PM
Price is good, but as I don't like the look of these new models ( nor the fact that they come as sprues ) means I'll pass...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 14, 2016, 12:26:02 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 12, 2016, 09:48:07 PM
£52 at Wayland.


Had bad experience with wayland,will never buy from.them again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 14, 2016, 11:25:53 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on November 13, 2016, 08:27:07 PM
Price is good, but as I don't like the look of these new models ( nor the fact that they come as sprues ) means I'll pass...

I'm actually quite curious to see how many people do buy into this.  The rules themselves aren't different (and if I'm honest...not very brilliant either) and there have been loads of third party minis available for a long time.  There are some brilliant neoprene-based boards/tables for it, etc.  I wonder how many folks are going to buy in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 15, 2016, 01:57:02 AM
blood bowl is really popular still and alot of people really want official support for it . (yeah yeah, fan made projects ect ect but people always want official support.) Interest in it has been bigger than prospero which was a complete sell out, so i expect this will fly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 15, 2016, 11:32:19 AM
Quote from: nic-e on November 15, 2016, 01:57:02 AM
[...] people always want official support. [...]

And I'll never know why!  o_o

You have the game (plus it's better balanced by the fans than GW ever managed), and you have many different miniatures for every team (and more) ever conceived by GW, and it's been doing just fab without any interference from Nottingham... So why are so many folks so desperate to give all that up just to see BB support become "official" again? That's going backwards (and not in a good nostalgic way) surely?  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 15, 2016, 01:34:27 PM
What intrigues me is that all of the people I know have said "oh, cool, Blood Bowl is coming back" as opposed to "oh hell yes, I'm going to buy a copy!".  Either way, I'll continue to sit patiently and wait for Necromunda to be re-released (or Mordheim, doubtful).

They dashed my hopes of a real Warhammer Quest replacement, so my options are getting thin.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 15, 2016, 04:30:05 PM
I never bought it before so this is my first copy of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on November 16, 2016, 04:43:09 AM
Pass on Blood Bowl for me. I'm a huge fan of most of GWs 90s games (Necro, WHQ etc) but never got into BB though I do have an old metal Wood Elf team laying around somewhere...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Leifr Eiríksson on November 16, 2016, 05:47:35 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on November 15, 2016, 04:30:05 PM
I never bought it before so this is my first copy of it.

Likewise. I never bought into it when GW last supported it, this time I'm all in!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on November 17, 2016, 03:01:16 PM
I find this a hard proposition.  Blood Bowl was my first jump otside of RPGs that got me into wargames.  I still look back on it fondly but I'm finding this a bit of a hard pill to swallow.  If this were a new game I'd expect it to be staggered as new material is released but from what I understand there isn't anything new.  I resent that the game is being carved up into pieces and sold with "seasons".  The 1st ed Blood Bowl rules had rules for undead/necromantic teams and not including the rosters (excluding and orcs is pretty greasy IMO).

I like Human teams and I like the models but don't much care for Orcs and rules I already own.  It seems the scale of the field and measurements were upsized; To what end?  Wonkifying ranges with shiny templates doesn't make a new game but is it a pressure tactic to convince long time players to rebuy?

If I had more disposable income I'd definitely suck it up because the cash wouldn't matter.  As it stands I need to make the best use of my hobby funds that I can.  I'd rather be discovering new, exciting games than rebuying stuff.  I want specialist games to succeed but they are going to have to do something more substantial than see how successful Guild Ball has been then roll the old girl onto the corner with another layer of makeup.

I sound sour but I'd be less dismissive if they hadn't pretended the game didn't exist for the last decade and change (Collecting revenue from licensing doesn't count).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 17, 2016, 03:22:55 PM
So, don't buy it.  lol  Look on the bright side - the rules didn't change, correct?  If anything you'll simply have some new players to play against.  That's a win for you in my book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 18, 2016, 12:00:56 AM
I disagree. I really enjoy the dice rolling element in games, especially when it comes to that last ditch effort to get the touchdown in the last turn.  Of course this is really different for each person.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 18, 2016, 08:21:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o1r9uUDmoM

That is the actual GW channel.

When did GW actually become self-aware and funny? What is this crazy world I live in?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 18, 2016, 09:09:36 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 18, 2016, 08:21:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o1r9uUDmoM

That is the actual GW channel.

When did GW actually become self-aware and funny? What is this crazy world I live in?


 :o  lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 18, 2016, 09:24:17 AM
 lol lol

Yep, that did give me a chuckle.

And dont forget: You, of course, get a whole bunch of Skullz to decorate them with.
 ;D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on November 18, 2016, 10:10:03 AM
Hero Bases! What an awesome vid. Chapeau GW!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on November 18, 2016, 01:06:32 PM
 That is a funny video.Very corny.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 18, 2016, 02:14:28 PM
Quote from: beefcake on November 18, 2016, 12:00:56 AM
I disagree. I really enjoy the dice rolling element in games, especially when it comes to that last ditch effort to get the touchdown in the last turn.  Of course this is really different for each person.

I agree when you're first beginning...but once you get deep into a season and every single player has wounds/issues/gear/skills/attributes etc. it can become a ridiculous nightmare of numbers. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 18, 2016, 06:56:17 PM
I probably played too infrequently for that, lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on November 19, 2016, 05:07:10 AM
I found that when I was playing well I wasn't actually rolling that many dice;  Things were falling apart if I was being prompted to roll lots :) .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on November 19, 2016, 11:18:54 AM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/New-Exclusive?utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-7582f60b79-119392233&utm_campaign=7582f60b79-CW_2016_11_19_MTO_Chaos_EN_EU1&utm_medium=email&N=1034813519+366030045+3855522993&utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&_requestid=7422439

Awesome Slaanesh models for sale again, for a week, for a good price too!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 19, 2016, 12:12:16 PM
Cool, good to see those temporary re-releases actually offering some interesting options!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 19, 2016, 02:35:15 PM
How old are those steed riders?  Do those pre-date the old long-tongued ones from 2nd, or are they after the fact?

I see they're getting rid of the Thousand Sons conversions to make way for the new plastic kits which are on en route.  Good time to be a Thousand Sons/Tzeentch player.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 19, 2016, 03:12:44 PM
Quote from: Elbows on November 19, 2016, 02:35:15 PM
How old are those steed riders?  Do those pre-date the old long-tongued ones from 2nd, or are they after the fact?


They were the 3rd version of the Deamonettes and the 2nd version of steeds, and some of my favourites along with the 1st versions :)

Surprised to see them back, but glad as they fetch silly silly monies on Ebay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 19, 2016, 04:20:32 PM
So the Thousand Sons kits just showed up on all the rumour sites...lookin' pretty good.

(http://17890-presscdn-0-51.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/TS-Exalted-Sorcerors.jpg)

(http://17890-presscdn-0-51.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/TS-Occult.jpg)

(http://17890-presscdn-0-51.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Tzaangors.jpg)

(http://17890-presscdn-0-51.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/TS-Rubrics2.jpg)

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2016/11/19/6e75ed5b3a5958e860b36d67c42bf747_55577.jpg__thumb)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on November 19, 2016, 07:03:42 PM
Not a huge fan of the second and third sorcerer or deamons.

The rest actually is pretty cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 19, 2016, 08:31:30 PM
I feel about the same.  I don't get any "oh damn!" feels from them, but I think they're nice plastic kits which will serve well for the next 10 years or so.  I think you could kit-bash these with the Prospero plastics for a more varied force. (yes, even in 40K!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on November 20, 2016, 06:14:15 AM
I really like both sets of troops and the terminators.  To my eye they are right at the golden mean of cool vs. over the top with abundant detail and style.  The character models look silly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 20, 2016, 07:36:00 PM
I really like the beastmen there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 20, 2016, 09:52:02 PM
Something about the painting doesn't really work for me. Makes them look flat-ish while closer inspection suggests there is actual depth in the detail. The stark white background might not help either. I'm holding back judgement until I've seen some other painted pictures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on November 21, 2016, 01:05:46 AM
The beastmen are a nice touch, all they need now is thrall wizards and i'm sold!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on November 21, 2016, 09:36:00 AM
Aha! I think I understand the top right mage on the disc now:

(http://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/images/rixen_kaul_klickfix_sunny_map_holder.JPG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 21, 2016, 10:40:59 AM
Well, those kits will make a lot of people very happy (which is good, as they've been waiting about twenty years for these!).

I am also pleased to see lots of mk4 armour everywhere, and none of the "modern" mk7.

The kits do appear to have a fair few options too. Here's an alternative pic that shows different builds for the Sorcerers:

(https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/15078517_1361153577236542_680451206772686794_n-1.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on November 21, 2016, 10:42:40 AM
Still weird poses. The one flying on a huge fart is simply weird in posing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 21, 2016, 11:14:05 AM
Got the new white dwarf this morning. Turns out Space Hulk is back on the 3rd. £75, no mention if it's limited or not.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on November 21, 2016, 11:16:40 AM
Hahahahahahaha...for the third time??? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 21, 2016, 11:20:59 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 21, 2016, 11:14:05 AM
Got the new white dwarf this morning. Turns out Space Hulk is back on the 3rd. £75, no mention if it's limited or not.

Perhaps even though it was 'limited', sales in the first two rounds never hit the production 'limit'....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 21, 2016, 11:26:07 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 21, 2016, 11:14:05 AM
Space Hulk is back on the 3rd. £75, no mention if it's limited or not.

(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/175/315/PicardDoubleFacepalm-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 21, 2016, 11:38:42 AM
What exactly is the problem? It's a great game, available again. If they've any sense (and it seems there's more going around now) it'll be a permanent addition.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 21, 2016, 11:43:01 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 21, 2016, 11:38:42 AM
What exactly is the problem? It's a great game, available again. If they've any sense (and it seems there's more going around now) it'll be a permanent addition.

Mostly that the first re-release was touted as "strictly limited get it now or regret it forever edition"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 21, 2016, 11:47:24 AM
Was it though? And did you all buy it because of that reason alone?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 21, 2016, 12:01:21 PM
A lot of people paid what was (then) perceived to be a price premium in order to get something that was highly publicised as being strictly limited - and in fact the game basically sold out on pre-order alone due to this.

That then turned out not to be so limited (they "found" 50k units more), and then tweaked it ever so slightly to sell again a couple of years later.

I personally would mind less if the upcoming release of the game was cheaper and the models a little more compact/storable. At least it would be clear that it's not a limited (although perhaps seasonal) release, and that it's aimed at the boardgame market, and it would be different enough to not tread on those who bought the earlier version.

Anyway, it's a really shabby thing to do to all those customers that had the faith to buy that premium product unseen/unreviewed (and thereby made it a big commercial success on pre-orders alone).

Now, should it ever have been a LE in the first place? I think not, but GW obviously felt differently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 21, 2016, 12:15:02 PM
Are you describing your own situation, or is it vicarious anger?

Anyone who bought multiple - or single, still shrink wrapped - copies in 2009 had plenty of time of make money out of it. Anyone who bought multiple copies in 2014 was daft.

Anyone who bought it and actually played the bloody thing, well done, that was the whole point. Now more people can do likewise.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on November 21, 2016, 12:15:50 PM
Jup...it just stinks because they lied about it. Nothing else. Still a good release for any spaceship crawlers :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 21, 2016, 12:23:49 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on November 21, 2016, 12:15:50 PM
Jup...it just stinks because they lied about it. Nothing else. Still a good release for any spaceship crawlers :)

You already sold your copy! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on November 21, 2016, 12:34:25 PM
Jup, true. But that doesn't change the facts. And maybe I would have kept it if it was still LE ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 21, 2016, 04:04:31 PM
I bought every version of Space Hulk, happy to do so.

We will never know if GW was disingenuous about offering it on a limited basis with a plan to sell more later (as I recall there was a mysterious "discovery" of a few hundred copies a couple months after the 3rd edition sell out), or if they realized it was more popular than they expected and wanted to meet a demand.

Other companies have done the same thing- Foundry, Copplestone Castings, etc.

I suppose it is bad for investors but good for those who missed their opportunity for various reasons.

I'd just like to take a moment to applaud GW for releasing Mechanicus and Genestealer Cults, and exploring 30K. Who'd have guessed that three years ago?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 21, 2016, 04:25:07 PM
I'm the first to bash GW (They broke my heart/wallet and a ex-staffer) but they have been doing alot of good things of late, 'Stealer Cult, 30k, cheaper (for GW pricing) stand alone games and now Blood Bowl.

Now if they bring back Warmaster as 10/12mm and stay with the same or simpler  unit layout (3 stands) I may just go and spent some cash with them again. As Warmaster unlike Necromunda, Mordheim & other Spec games who have a large fan base all these later is a real bugger to get a game of and could use the ''Offical'' treatment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jambo1 on November 21, 2016, 04:55:29 PM
Quote from: Chico on November 21, 2016, 04:25:07 PM
I'm the first to bash GW (They broke my heart/wallet and a ex-staffer) but they have been doing alot of good things of late, 'Stealer Cult, 30k, cheaper (for GW pricing) stand alone games and now Blood Bowl.

Now if they bring back Warmaster as 10/12mm and stay with the same or simpler  unit layout (3 stands) I may just go and spent some cash with them again. As Warmaster unlike Necromunda, Mordheim & other Spec games who have a large fan base all these later is a real bugger to get a game of and could use the ''Offical'' treatment.

I haven't bought anything from GW in donkeys years but I'm with you on the Warmaster idea, if they released that again I would certainly be up for spending some cash with them. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 21, 2016, 05:50:08 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 21, 2016, 12:15:02 PM
Are you describing your own situation, or is it vicarious anger?

My own situation, and it isn't anger - it's deep disappointment.

Not because I'm some sort of horrible selfish person who doesn't want other people to enjoy it, but because because there was no real reason to have ever made it limited in the first place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on November 21, 2016, 05:59:08 PM
Quote from: Chico on November 21, 2016, 04:25:07 PM
Now if they bring back Warmaster as 10/12mm and stay with the same or simpler  unit layout (3 stands) I may just go and spent some cash with them again. As Warmaster unlike Necromunda, Mordheim & other Spec games who have a large fan base all these later is a real bugger to get a game of and could use the ''Offical'' treatment.
And Epic 30K would be cool... . :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 21, 2016, 08:14:05 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 21, 2016, 12:15:02 PM
Are you describing your own situation, or is it vicarious anger?


Bought it together with a friend, had the models painted by a very talented painter, played it quite a bit, contemplated selling our versions when the price kept climbing. I guess we should have done so, would have got us enough cash to buy another version, have it painted and still have cash left over. Ah well.

Honestly, I would have been ok if they made a new version of the game. Different models, different tiles, basically the same game but a "variant" edition, publish a pdf that can "only" be played if you have both heck they might have gotten my money a second time that way. Have their cake and eat it too.

Saying something is limited and then releasing it again a bit later, with virtually no changes is a shitty move. It is the kind of thing that made people lose trust in GW. I'm not bitter over this latest release, it's a good game, I've been enjoying it for years and am glad others can too. But as you can see it does touch on old sore spots for many of us.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 21, 2016, 10:43:40 PM
Only ever bought the original version  ::)

Never heard of the first limited edition until I got back into this hobby.

No great interest in buying any of the limited, less limited, latest.. un-er-limited? Versions....

But the main issue I see is the same that got me to walk away 20 or more years ago, and what clearly continued after.

Its not about their behaviour and tactics re one product, Space Hulk Editions is just a good example - its the overall sustained acts - featuring many products. Over many Years.

If finally somehow they are doing things better - sure they can re-release, new release and un-OOP anything they want, fine by me, and maybe if the pricing is right I might even buy into some of it - hell bring back Warhammer under special games even - brand it Warhammer Period Battles or  Historical or something :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 22, 2016, 03:24:14 AM
I bought the second "Limited edition" and have the original. So glad they now have stealer cults available too. I might need to source the old genestealer and deathwing supplements from the first edition to put the new minis to use.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Leifr Eiríksson on November 22, 2016, 07:44:04 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on November 21, 2016, 05:59:08 PM
And Epic 30K would be cool... . :D

Adeptus Titanicus is coming out next year?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on November 22, 2016, 07:59:34 AM
Sigh, so glad I bought spacehulk when I had the chance ::).

Well GW, at least go all out this time: support it and get it some supplements. Other chapters, genestealer cults. That would make it interesting for those who already have it. I might even buy an expension even though I rarely play it. Just because I love adding to my boardgame selection...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 22, 2016, 08:08:17 AM
I wonder if that is why they are re-releasing it. Now that the cult's fluff is back in the 40k universe maybe they are going to cash in on the expansions? I'd be happy with that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on November 22, 2016, 08:41:25 AM
Quote from: Leifr Eiríksson on November 22, 2016, 07:44:04 AM
Adeptus Titanicus is coming out next year?  ;)
Fingers crossed tightly  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 22, 2016, 11:28:09 AM
Quote from: Leifr Eiríksson on November 22, 2016, 07:44:04 AM
Adeptus Titanicus is coming out next year?  ;)

Would be nice but

In 8mm... assume that's GW "it looks better in our tests" standard scale creep and nothing to do with "6mm standard everyone else does"?

So expect it to be 18mm by 2018 if still supported, and  in "28mm" AOS style by 2019?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 22, 2016, 02:52:05 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 22, 2016, 11:28:09 AM
Would be nice but

In 8mm... assume that's GW "it looks better in our tests" standard scale creep and nothing to do with "6mm standard everyone else does"?

So expect it to be 18mm by 2018 if still supported, and  in "28mm" AOS style by 2019?


Adeptus Titanicus is just big stompy titans so 6mm, 8mm, it's all the same really. It's only if infantry and vehicles are introduced that I can see people who have 6mm stuff maybe being turned off by the larger scale as those pieces would likely look a little odd next to their armies. A lot of people seem to think this is the return of Epic 40K but it may just be another stand alone boxed game, maybe a few expansions to keep it going but I'd be surprised if GW are going to go all out and start producing everything 40K in 8mm. Seems too big a commitment when this is the GW age of one stop shop boxed games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 22, 2016, 03:06:04 PM
By the sounds of it, the Adeptus Titanicus models will be pretty big, but according to this info (https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/1210) the boxed game won't have any models, so you could just use old epic models. I get the impression infantry isn't involved. And that it could get pretty bloody pricey!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 22, 2016, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 22, 2016, 02:52:05 PM

Adeptus Titanicus is just big stompy titans so 6mm, 8mm, it's all the same really. It's only if infantry and vehicles are introduced that I can see people who have 6mm stuff maybe being turned off by the larger scale as those pieces would likely look a little odd next to their armies. A lot of people seem to think this is the return of Epic 40K but it may just be another stand alone boxed game, maybe a few expansions to keep it going but I'd be surprised if GW are going to go all out and start producing everything 40K in 8mm. Seems too big a commitment when this is the GW age of one stop shop boxed games.

True. Guilty as charged as I have both Epic and A.T. in the cubboard.

It was big stompy robots back in the day to if you did not involve epic.

I will sit back, shut up and wait to see what happens - but if as they say its all to be FW resin models, I doubt I will be able to afford enough of them - would have to default to originals anyway.

seems a bit dissappointing having a box if there's no minis going in it ..

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 22, 2016, 06:59:06 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 22, 2016, 03:06:04 PM
By the sounds of it, the Adeptus Titanicus models will be pretty big, but according to this info (https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/1210) the boxed game won't have any models, so you could just use old epic models. I get the impression infantry isn't involved. And that it could get pretty bloody pricey!
No models? Now that is a strange rumour. One I need to see to believe. Minis is GW's bread and butter.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 22, 2016, 08:37:34 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 22, 2016, 03:41:36 PM


seems a bit dissappointing having a box if there's no minis going in it ..




That's certainly an odd one and surely a tough sell.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 22, 2016, 09:05:11 PM
I'm getting the feeling GW is trying to move further into the board game market. Their break with Fantasy Flight might have something to do with it. It would make sense. Sell AT as a "board game" with tokens and make the miniatures a options for the wargamers, double your target audience with the board gamers who don't do miniatures. This is total speculation on my part though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 22, 2016, 10:39:13 PM
Quote from: YPU on November 22, 2016, 09:05:11 PM
I'm getting the feeling GW is trying to move further into the board game market. Their break with Fantasy Flight might have something to do with it. It would make sense. Sell AT as a "board game" with tokens and make the miniatures a options for the wargamers, double your target audience with the board gamers who don't do miniatures. This is total speculation on my part though.

I don't see AT as a boardgame, but then again Battletech is. The appeal of the recent boardgames is totally miniatures based and if it weren't for nice models at a reduced price would anyone have bothered with Betrayal or Deathwatch Overkill? It'll be interesting to see how they do end up packaging the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on November 22, 2016, 10:51:05 PM
Dunno if you guys have noticed, but Laurence John Blanche (yes, THAT John Blanche) is on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100013238950659). And he's posting some amazing art and miniatures:

(http://i.imgur.com/dGAlt06.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 22, 2016, 11:02:08 PM
Yeah, he posts on the Oldhammer sites every now and then. He paints his miniatures the way he paints his pictures; you can just imagine a cloud of flies around them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on November 22, 2016, 11:05:44 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 22, 2016, 11:02:08 PM
Yeah, he posts on the Oldhammer sites every now and then. He paints his miniatures the way he paints his pictures; you can just imagine a cloud of flies around them.

He really loves red.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on November 23, 2016, 04:26:06 AM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on November 22, 2016, 10:51:05 PM
Dunno if you guys have noticed, but Laurence John Blanche (yes, THAT John Blanche) is on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100013238950659). And he's posting some amazing art and miniatures:

(http://i.imgur.com/dGAlt06.jpg)

He sent me a friend request... wonder how long that's been floating around???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 23, 2016, 08:35:34 AM

To be honest my main suspicion of the 'board-game" push by GW and its possible marked success was partially if not mostly because the miniatures are effectively counters and markers, are a bit 3D - rather than discs of cardboard or plastic - or lower quality minis often found in other games. Bringing boardgames into the coven of the GW hobby looking for something a bit different to their normal fair?

I think possibly also because of other companies to, marketing much higher quality boardgames, have influenced that market to, and raised the bare regards what some people expect in the box.

Certainly its unlikely that they are impressed with the rules that GW create for them sometimes...

So, if true, it looks like AT re-vamp/issue will have to be able to stand up as a rules set of quality to have a chance, even maybe giving people options to use proxy units...?


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 23, 2016, 10:35:02 AM
I understood that AT is actually being handled by FW, and that GW are only providing the plastic ruins terrain.

Therefore, the "starter set" just being the rulebook, counters, and terrain doesn't seem too far-fetched. The intention I suppose is that players can get the generic starter bundle and then add whatever Knights and Titans are in the first releases to it as they want. I also suspect that FW will do various launch-day bundles, for example the starter plus two Reavers and two Warlords for £200 (or whatever).

There are currently no plans for anything other than Chaos and Imperial Knights and Titans, although some vehicles, fliers, and troops may be added to the game via future expansions if the game does well enough.

At the 8mm scale, the intention is to shrink and re-detail the digital files that were originally used for the Reaver, Warlord, and Knights. That's partially why the 8mm was chosen - at 6mm the details became too small and the parts became too delicate. As somebody who had a some FW Epic, I can attest to how ridiculously delicate most of the models were, and therefore have *some* sympathy for the apparent reasons behind the game's scale-change.

Knights are supposed to be about the size of GW's current crop of plastic infantry models (maybe Terminator-sized?), and the Reaver is supposed to be about the size of a Deadnought. I guess that would make a Warlord about the size of one of the bigger FW Dreads/AdMech Robots.

Given the projected sizes of the Titans, and using the FW Dreadnoughts as a price-guide (even down to Legion-themed bodies, and separate weapons), I can see a Reaver costing around £45, and a Warlord around £60. I'd hope it's cheaper, but as the game is supposed to be about 3-4 models a side I can't see it personally - it may even be slightly more expensive. I guess that's the other reason they won't be putting models in the starter-set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 23, 2016, 05:14:25 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 22, 2016, 11:02:08 PM
Yeah, he posts on the Oldhammer sites every now and then. He paints his miniatures the way he paints his pictures; you can just imagine a cloud of flies around them.

One of the things I've read about John Blanche's miniatures is that he tends to use much thicker paint than most people would and quite literally treats the miniatures more like a 2D picture. However he does it, I love it - both the more intricate things he used to do and the freer, more "painterly" recent stuff. With both his and Aly Morrison's stuff, there's an amazing inventiveness that's quite above and beyond the (considerable) technical ability.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 23, 2016, 05:43:08 PM
Quote from: YPU on November 22, 2016, 09:05:11 PM
I'm getting the feeling GW is trying to move further into the board game market. Their break with Fantasy Flight might have something to do with it. It would make sense. Sell AT as a "board game" with tokens and make the miniatures a options for the wargamers, double your target audience with the board gamers who don't do miniatures. This is total speculation on my part though.

I don't think it's that. It's just that a box with multiple FW resin 8mm titan/knight models would be a massively expensive single purchase. That doesn't look good at first glance. So they'll sell the rules in a box with other bits and pieces (but not stand-in titan tokens), and the models separately. It'll still be massively expensive to get into, but without the knockout sticker price upfront.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 23, 2016, 07:04:56 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 23, 2016, 05:43:08 PM
I don't think it's that. It's just that a box with multiple FW resin 8mm titan/knight models would be a massively expensive single purchase. That doesn't look good at first glance. So they'll sell the rules in a box with other bits and pieces (but not stand-in titan tokens), and the models separately. It'll still be massively expensive to get into, but without the knockout sticker price upfront.

Plus alarge part of the game is meant to be tweaking your titan loud outs, and it's easier to just buy your titans in bits that pay for a box of titans you might not use.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 24, 2016, 06:46:07 PM
However if they did them on plastic sprues that would allow for a wide range of weapons etc to go on it (unless they are doing adeptus titanicus in 28mm!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 24, 2016, 08:53:15 PM
Quote from: beefcake on November 24, 2016, 06:46:07 PM
unless they are doing adeptus titanicus in 28mm!

They do - link (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Legio-Titanicus-Titan-Maniple). It's 5 titans, so probably just a starter set for a single player o_o

Single Titans (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Warlord-Titan-Builder) are available to expand your force if required
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 24, 2016, 09:15:54 PM
Quote from: zemjw on November 24, 2016, 08:53:15 PM
They do - link (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Legio-Titanicus-Titan-Maniple). It's 5 titans, so probably just a starter set for a single player o_o

Single Titans (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Warlord-Titan-Builder) are available to expand your force if required


Aahhh... now 8mm sounds so much more cost effective and affordable.

Do they do a GW gaming mat for the 28mm version?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 24, 2016, 09:23:37 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 24, 2016, 09:15:54 PM
Do they do a GW gaming mat for the 28mm version?

Just buy 12 of the realms of battle boards, they snap together.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 25, 2016, 12:02:17 AM
Quote from: zemjw on November 24, 2016, 08:53:15 PM
They do - link (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Legio-Titanicus-Titan-Maniple). It's 5 titans, so probably just a starter set for a single player o_o

Single Titans (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Warlord-Titan-Builder) are available to expand your force if required

Yep. Remember that from a few months gone. Was more specifically referring to the upcoming game though. I bet some people out there will be using the rules for 28mm scale battles though. Madness. (may as well just make up a giant Genestealer suit and pretend to be a tyranid titan.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on November 26, 2016, 11:38:11 AM
Made my first GW purchase for years yesterday in the shape of the new WD. It appears to have been restored to magazine status rather than mini-catalogue, so that's good to see. Shame it's £6 but this is not only a GW problem.

What prompted my buying WD is the coverage of Blood Bowl. I am happy that they decided to keep the tried, tested and much vaunted rule set and it is pleasing that they will be expanding the teams, not just doing a one-off game as I had feared. The only downside is the scheduling of Death Zone but in the grand scheme of things I don't think this will put many people off. When you consider that the old boxed game was being flogged for a ludicrous £50 a few years ago even after the range had been allowed to die the new box isn't badly priced, although still at the limit of what is acceptable as is usual with GW. If I had anyone to play BB with these days I might consider buying this even though I already have plenty of the 3rd ed stuff.

Can't believe I am saying this but is the GW corpse stirring? They seem to be making a surprising number of good decisions lately, with the exception of the awful AoS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 26, 2016, 05:39:21 PM
Turns out that unlike puppies, Space Hulk isn't for life, just for Christmas. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/26/new-to-pre-order-thousand-sons-and-space-hulk/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/26/new-to-pre-order-thousand-sons-and-space-hulk/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on November 26, 2016, 08:24:54 PM
Thanks Sigmar there are Christmas every year! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on November 27, 2016, 08:36:38 PM
Chaos Black XL Spray Paint (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_BBY0-zO1M)
 
 :o  lol lol lol

I'm speechless  lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 27, 2016, 08:45:57 PM
Quote from: McMordain on November 27, 2016, 08:36:38 PM
Chaos Black XL Spray Paint (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_BBY0-zO1M)
 

Man that had me actually laughing out loud. Whoever decided to get GW a marketing department with a sense of humour deserves a medal, or at least a very shiny purity seal.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on November 27, 2016, 09:25:58 PM
That was brilliant! :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 28, 2016, 01:37:27 AM
While brilliant (I did laugh out loud a bit), it is unfortunately tied to one of their most overly expensive products...I'd be more excited about a price drop...than a larger can (unless the price stays the same). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 28, 2016, 09:27:51 AM
That video went on a bit. I'd have suggested something quick and snappy, and probably terribly inappropriate.

I use GW black spray all the time so a double sized can for only a few quid more is a good deal. It's £12.48 at Wayland (yeah, yeah, I know  ::) ) so just over 4 quid more than a standard sized can. That's like buying two normal cans for £6.24 each which is cheaper than Army Painter (a brand I won't touch when it comes to sprays!). People will now post about how many cans of auto spray they can buy for that price.  :P

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on November 28, 2016, 09:34:02 AM
Honestly, I don't understand why you wouldn't use gesso / Tamiya real primer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 28, 2016, 09:55:42 AM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on November 28, 2016, 09:34:02 AM
Honestly, I don't understand why you wouldn't use gesso / Tamiya real primer.

Never used gesso. Always imagined it was little better than just brushing regular acrylic on as a primer. Sprays (not airbrushing) create a much better and hard wearing bond to the surface of the model.

Tamiya sprays at Wayland cost £3.59 for a tiny 100ml can.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on November 28, 2016, 10:13:03 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 28, 2016, 09:55:42 AM
Never used gesso. Always imagined it was little better than just brushing regular acrylic on as a primer. Sprays (not airbrushing) create a much better and hard wearing bond to the surface of the model.

Tamiya sprays at Wayland cost £3.59 for a tiny 100ml can.

Gesso is a lot different to acrylic. It's thicker and forms more of a "rubbery" coat over the top. I don't know if it's quite as good as spray priming but it's definitely better than GW's stuff which is literally just spraypaint. It's also easier to reapply if you miss bits.

I was wrong on the Tamiya thing, I meant Krylon which is a real spray and you can get a huge can for cheap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on November 28, 2016, 10:28:41 AM
Krylon in Europe? Never found an address.
And personally I think GW's sprays are the best...both black and white. They give a perfect finish to the model (a lot less "slick" or "slippery" than most other sprays) and they take acryllic paints really well. And IMO it's not THAT expensive. I paint a lot and I buy 2-3 cans a year? It's not like I'm spending €100 a year or something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 28, 2016, 10:46:59 AM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on November 28, 2016, 10:13:03 AM
Gesso is a lot different to acrylic. It's thicker and forms more of a "rubbery" coat over the top. I don't know if it's quite as good as spray priming but it's definitely better than GW's stuff which is literally just spraypaint. It's also easier to reapply if you miss bits.

I was wrong on the Tamiya thing, I meant Krylon which is a real spray and you can get a huge can for cheap.


This stuff?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Krylon-51318-All-Purpose-Interior-Decorator/dp/B0009XB3UE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1480329852&sr=8-2&keywords=krylon+paint+primer (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Krylon-51318-All-Purpose-Interior-Decorator/dp/B0009XB3UE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1480329852&sr=8-2&keywords=krylon+paint+primer)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on November 28, 2016, 11:25:25 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 28, 2016, 10:46:59 AM

This stuff?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Krylon-51318-All-Purpose-Interior-Decorator/dp/B0009XB3UE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1480329852&sr=8-2&keywords=krylon+paint+primer (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Krylon-51318-All-Purpose-Interior-Decorator/dp/B0009XB3UE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1480329852&sr=8-2&keywords=krylon+paint+primer)



Am I retarded? I think I might be.

I ACTUALLY meant Hycote: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/White-Primer-Spray-Paint-400-ml-Hycote-Can-Fast-Drying-Formulation-/111873711356?hash=item1a0c315cfc:g:LQsAAOSwEjFXfQCR
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 28, 2016, 01:27:18 PM
I used too use GW spray all the time and in fact I quite like it but the price and having to walk into a GW store put me off. (Won't order spray online as it's a pain in the ass waiting for it)

I now use the Halford Matt Spray as it's cheaper, but I wouldn't say no to GW spray if I had it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 28, 2016, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on November 28, 2016, 10:13:03 AM
Gesso is a lot different to acrylic. It's thicker and forms more of a "rubbery" coat over the top.

Sounds similar to something called Plasti-Cote which I've used a few times with good results (it's also safe to spray on polystyrene and other stuff that melts under normal sprays). That and the black Hycote Primer I normally use are both crazy cheap if you shop around, especially in thrift stores like Home Bargains.

Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 28, 2016, 09:27:51 AM
People will now post about how many cans of auto spray they can buy for that price.  :P
 

Don't pull that trigger dude ... it's not something I can fight.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on November 28, 2016, 04:05:19 PM
I use Krylon ultra-flat primers these days; the cost is around $8cdn.  When painting miniatures I used GW primers exclusively for years.  It was never about about the price.  At one point the formulation was the best I had worked with.  A few years back I repeatedly had issue with GW brand primers; fogging and furry buildups on projects.  The staff were good about replacing the bad cans but converted models were usually write offs.  Bad batches, new formulations; Whatever the cause I was paying a premium for reliability and quality I wasn't getting so I stopped using it.  They have been producing some pretty decent stuff of late so I can't understand why they are trying to sensationalize something so trivial.  Maybe their web tv team is on salary and they can't bear having them do nothing when they are on the clock.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on November 28, 2016, 10:30:32 PM
I've become a fan of Badger Stynylrez primers. Rock-solid, and snugs down perfectly without filling detail, leaving a beautiful smooth satin surface. In terms of finish vs. durability, it's the best I've found.

It is on the expensive side though, and and doesn't have good (if any) brick-and-mortar distribution.

Also it's an airbrush primer, not rattlecan. Though IMO I'd really recommend making the switch from rattlecans to airbrush to anyone anyway. Much better control, much better finish quality, much better versatility both in terms of what you can do and what paints you can spray, and probably cheaper in the long run.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on November 29, 2016, 11:27:33 AM
I used to use colourworks primer. It was perfect. But now i cant sem to get it anywhere. I might give the GW spray a go.

I am starting to warm to GW again. I ended my boycott to buy some of the new genestealer acolytes and I dont regret it. Loads of spare arms and heads.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on November 29, 2016, 12:16:31 PM
I never actually went full on boycott.  I, "diversified my miniature portfolio"  :P .  I'd rather save my GDub money for their models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 30, 2016, 02:30:08 AM
I use airbrush Vallejo primers exclusively.  Love them. Can use the anytime, custom colours mean base is what I want, and I mix formulas to to get what I want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on December 06, 2016, 12:01:37 PM
Uh! recently I got excited about the reappearance of 'Old' Chaos champions on Games Workshops website. However it doesn't state what they are made of....call to Gw...uh! Finecast...

I wasn't convinced the person knew what I was on about, so if anyone knows different, let me know...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 06, 2016, 12:14:01 PM
Quote from: westwaller on December 06, 2016, 12:01:37 PM
Uh! recently I got excited about the reappearance of 'Old' Chaos champions on Games Workshops website. However it doesn't state what they are made of....call to Gw...uh! Finecast...

I wasn't convinced the person knew what I was on about, so if anyone knows different, let me know...

Yeah, I made that mistake and ordered them. Strangely, a couple of them are now in two parts even though the original metals were single parts. Also, they're covered in casting channels, not just vents but channels from one part of the figure to any raised detail. So much prep involved. I'd rather spend the time fixing up a crappy old metal casting. Same deal with the Jes Goodwin familiars, though at least their listing states the material.

But to GWs credit, as usual their customer service was quick and helpful and I returned the items freepost and got a refund.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on December 06, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Uh! What is more annoying, is that I think that you could buy metal ones in reissued form, from the website, only a few years ago!

Okay, back to trying to find chaos warriors on ebay that aren't crazy money, and don't have lead rot then...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 06, 2016, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: westwaller on December 06, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Uh! What is more annoying, is that I think that you could buy metal ones in reissued form, from the website, only a few years ago!

Okay, back to trying to find chaos warriors on ebay that aren't crazy money, and don't have lead rot then...

Not sure if you're married to GW figures or not, but there was a recent kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554542735/the-pantheon-of-chaos?ref=nav_search) project that produced old skool chaos warriors. May be worth contacting them to see if they're commercially available yet (although the latest project update suggests they're just about ready to ship to backers, so may be a bit early)

Miniatures were cast in metal and resin, with backer choice as to which they wanted. I talked myself out of backing the campaign, but it was a close run thing ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 06, 2016, 01:05:08 PM
Quote from: westwaller on December 06, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Okay, back to trying to find chaos warriors on ebay that aren't crazy money, and don't have lead rot then...

I don't think lead rot will be an issue, but some of the castings are bloody awful. Be prepared for a lot of work!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on December 06, 2016, 03:36:34 PM
Quote
Not sure if you're married to GW figures or not, but there was a recent kickstarter project that produced old skool chaos warriors. May be worth contacting them to see if they're commercially available yet

Pantheon of Chaos? Yes I thought about backing it...I didn't want all the miniatures though to be honest, they are pretty faithful to the Oldhammer vibe, but overall I prefer the GW ones from the late 80s. I don't mind proxies, I have some of the ex-grenadier ones that I shall use alongside. I'm surprised there aren't more proxies out there to be honest...

 I would probably buy some of the PoC ones if they became available commercially, but id want to pick and choose...

Quote
I don't think lead rot will be an issue, but some of the castings are bloody awful. Be prepared for a lot of work!

I have seen at least one on evilbay that has what looks like lead rot. Awful castings? its okay ive worked on Perry metals before, so I should be okay! I think it is your chaos warband that made me say, 'Id like to paint some chaos warriors'...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 06, 2016, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on November 29, 2016, 11:27:33 AM
I used to use colourworks primer. It was perfect.

Surely you can't mean this brand:

(https://www.paintdiscount.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/296x296/59f33fea1680a672507893ea0e20a010/c/o/colorworks_highgloss2.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on December 06, 2016, 07:30:10 PM
(http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/veryidian.jpg)
Based on the famous Blanche artwork. Soon to be released! I like her!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on December 06, 2016, 08:02:01 PM
Behold, post-Brexit Theresa May! Feast your eyes on her skull bewbs!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on December 07, 2016, 01:42:25 AM
Yes. But not colourspray. The one i had was called "Primer/Aplet". I have tried many brands
Quote from: YPU on December 06, 2016, 03:43:26 PM
Surely you can't mean this brand:

(https://www.paintdiscount.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/296x296/59f33fea1680a672507893ea0e20a010/c/o/colorworks_highgloss2.jpg)
, and that was the one that gave me best results.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on December 07, 2016, 03:24:50 AM
@Malebolgia

That is pretty cool.  It is drawing me closer on the nostalgia alone.  I prefer the source art (the pose on the figure seems to be leaned back a little too precariously) but I'm pretty sure I'd like one of those to paint.  I need a better job; At least 3 or 4 years of mediocrity then in a matter of months I'd like to buy a good number of their release.  When it rains it pours :) .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Leifr Eiríksson on December 07, 2016, 09:36:19 AM
Quote from: Gibby on December 06, 2016, 08:02:01 PM
Behold, post-Brexit Theresa May! Feast your eyes on her skull bewbs!

Christ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 07, 2016, 09:45:07 AM
Quote from: weismonsters on December 07, 2016, 01:42:25 AM
Yes. But not colourspray. The one i had was called "Primer/Aplet". I have tried many brands, and that was the one that gave me best results.

Thanks for the info, I'll keep an eye out for that variant to give it a go. the colorspray stuff is horrible for coverage in my experience, though I have only used white and metallic purple, not the easiest colours to get to look right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on December 07, 2016, 09:58:50 AM
Quote from: Malebolgia on December 06, 2016, 07:30:10 PM
(http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/veryidian.jpg)
Based on the famous Blanche artwork. Soon to be released! I like her!

When?..WHEN? WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on December 07, 2016, 11:27:20 AM
Quote from: Malebolgia on December 06, 2016, 07:30:10 PM
(http://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/veryidian.jpg)
Based on the famous Blanche artwork. Soon to be released! I like her!

Not interested ... not enough skulls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on December 07, 2016, 11:55:35 AM
Like her, a must have, for old times sake. Hope she won't cost more than 15 euro's.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 07, 2016, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on December 07, 2016, 11:55:35 AM
Like her, a must have, for old times sake. Hope she won't cost more than 15 euro's.
She's £15 (or whatever GW claim that is in Euros!) ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on December 07, 2016, 12:17:35 PM
Knowing GW, that will be about 20 euro. Wayyy too much for a single model, but still...  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 07, 2016, 12:40:08 PM
Some crackers in this weekends 'made to order'.

(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2016/12/7/b67ab127d44cb17e8a213c26d30abe82_94383.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on December 07, 2016, 02:03:38 PM
I'm only missing the assassin, the crossbow witch hunter and the daemonhost :/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 07, 2016, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on December 07, 2016, 02:03:38 PM
I'm only missing the assassin, the crossbow witch hunter and the daemonhost :/

They are all available individually, and are cast in metal. Yes, metal. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 07, 2016, 03:01:20 PM
Yep, and timed perfectly for the new Imperial Agents release.  The new Blanche-Sister looks excellent.  I assume it'll be in finecast or are GW back to releasing new models in metal? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 07, 2016, 03:36:10 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 07, 2016, 03:01:20 PM
Yep, and timed perfectly for the new Imperial Agents release.  The new Blanche-Sister looks excellent.  I assume it'll be in finecast or are GW back to releasing new models in metal? 

I believe that I read it will be in "resin". So that'll be Failcast then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 07, 2016, 04:21:23 PM
Ouch, negative.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on December 07, 2016, 04:52:16 PM
...When I rang customer services about what the Chaos Champions were made of, from their reaction to my 'Oh! ,Okay thanks anyway' gave me the distinct impression that it is quite a common occurence!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 07, 2016, 05:04:48 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 07, 2016, 03:36:10 PM
I believe that I read it will be in "resin". So that'll be Failcast then.

I'm actually quite surprised at that. I thought all the new character figures were multipart plastic now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 07, 2016, 05:58:57 PM
I've been after the assassin for a while.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on December 07, 2016, 06:16:36 PM
Apparently the Sisters Canonness is one of those super-limited editions... as in 1-2 per store and not for sale online.

Sucks... I imagine they would have made more profit just having it available for full release (if only for a limited time).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 07, 2016, 06:22:15 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 07, 2016, 03:36:10 PM
I believe that I read it will be in "resin". So that'll be Failcast then.

Some things on GW's site are listed as resin and others as Finecast so resin might mean resin.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 07, 2016, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: Timbor on December 07, 2016, 06:16:36 PM
Apparently the Sisters Canonness is one of those super-limited editions... as in 1-2 per store and not for sale online.

Sucks... I imagine they would have made more profit just having it available for full release (if only for a limited time).

GW announced on their FB page that they are selling it for a limited time rather than a limited run. Too bad for the scalpers and resellers (who will still make money, just not as much ;) )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on December 08, 2016, 03:57:24 AM
Well, that is great news!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on December 08, 2016, 02:59:14 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 07, 2016, 02:28:22 PM
They are all available individually, and are cast in metal. Yes, metal. :)

Woooo!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 08, 2016, 10:58:28 PM
the warhammer 40000 facebook page put up that it will be available for a while on the webstore. Limited in store sales but not to much digital.

All resin releases are now being made in forgeworld resin, not finecast.(see the limited edition ultramarine standard bearer/limited store opening models. )


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 09, 2016, 08:59:46 AM
Quote from: nic-e on December 08, 2016, 10:58:28 PM
All resin releases are now being made in forgeworld resin, not finecast.(see the limited edition ultramarine standard bearer/limited store opening models. )

Hmmm, not sure that's much of an improvement. I don't have any forgeworld resin figures, but I do have the Venator buggy thing they do. It was a clean enough cast, although rather fragile (several of the wheel suspension springs broke while I was trying to attach them). There are also some parts that will need to be straightened in hot water before they'll have a chance of fitting.

Hopefully the figures are better, and at least it's not the other stuff  :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on December 09, 2016, 09:28:52 AM
I got bought a Contemptor Dreadnought years ago with two Kheres Assault cannons. They were a god damn mess to sort. Six rods that had to be perfectly straight and perfectly attached at the same time. They didn't even get delivered from Forgeworld straight.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 09, 2016, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on December 09, 2016, 09:28:52 AM
I got bought a Contemptor Dreadnought years ago with two Kheres Assault cannons. They were a god damn mess to sort. Six rods that had to be perfectly straight and perfectly attached at the same time. They didn't even get delivered from Forgeworld straight.

The barrels for each assault cannon come in three pairs now, and mine were cast okay. Replacing them with plastic rod is always the best solution anyway though! ;)

I find with FW that casting quality depends on the item quite a bit. A new release, bought near release time, generally gets me a very good cast. Older models however often display soft or slipped details, mould slip, and other casting issues (I presume because as demand drops off for the mould, it gets replaced less often than it should?).

If FW are indeed casting the limited SoB model, then I expect it will be a good cast. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
The old island of blood set is being rerelased as an Age of Sigmar boxed set. Not a starter set, just a sort of secondary battle box.
£50 uk according to all internet sources.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Age-of-Sigmar-Spire-of-Dawn-ENG
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 10, 2016, 10:37:37 AM
That was a really good boxed set. I made a Skaven army out of the contents of several.

Have been out of GW for years now. It's too bad, the models seem nice, always liked the Skaven stuff and Orcs; I was perfectly happy with the 8th ed. rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 10, 2016, 11:07:49 AM
Quote from: nic-e on December 09, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
The old island of blood set is being rerelased as an Age of Sigmar boxed set. Not a starter set, just a sort of secondary battle box.
£50 uk according to all internet sources.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Age-of-Sigmar-Spire-of-Dawn-ENG

Ridiculously good value for money! I'd be all over that if Skaven or Elves were my thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on December 10, 2016, 01:03:58 PM
Elves should be your thing, you would paint them up beautifully I reckon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on December 10, 2016, 03:00:06 PM
Well the new canoness sold out immediately and is listed as "temporarily out of stock" not a good sign for a pre-order.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 10, 2016, 06:02:57 PM
Pleasantly surprised at the price of those female Inquisitors in the Made to Order section. They sell on ebay for twice as much.

I've been waiting for months for a reasonably priced one. Wasn't expecting to get it from GW!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on December 11, 2016, 02:33:45 PM
Spire of Dawn set sold out already!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 11, 2016, 10:24:26 PM
Quote from: Gibby on December 11, 2016, 02:33:45 PM
Spire of Dawn set sold out already!

Not surprised at that price. I expect to see the sprues cluttering Ebay in the coming weeks.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 11, 2016, 10:48:31 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on December 11, 2016, 10:24:26 PM
Not surprised at that price. I expect to see the sprues cluttering Ebay in the coming weeks.  ;)
[/quote

Don't worry, it'll be coming back soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 11, 2016, 11:00:04 PM
Quote from: nic-e on December 11, 2016, 10:48:31 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on December 11, 2016, 10:24:26 PM
Not surprised at that price. I expect to see the sprues cluttering Ebay in the coming weeks.  ;)

Don't worry, it'll be coming back soon.


I hope that's true of the Sylvaneth Darkroot Wargrove box. I pre-ordered with my FLGS (hate that term with a passion) and it seems they kept the pre-orders open expecting further stock when none was promised.  >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 12, 2016, 09:59:27 AM
Only the pre-orders have sold out; when they are "released", they will be back in stock. Of course, that does mean you'll be kept waiting a bit a longer, but it could be worse.

Speaking of which, the LE Canoness sold out everywhere online and in stores within about 3 minutes flat.
And instead of just allowing customers to pre-order more (like they are doing with their "Made to Order" range of models), you have to sign up to an email notification for when they are back in stock and are then limited to one per customer per purchase (assuming you get the email, and log in, and buy it before they are sold out again).
Considering they sold out again several times over the weekend (in  just a few minutes each time), their current sales method doesn't seem to be especially efficient!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 12, 2016, 10:27:47 AM
I suppose GW having limited stock of any given thing means that they aren't over stocked which probably makes shipping, distribution and storage easier. More importantly though it creates an urgency for the consumer which gets people to part with their money a damn sight quicker than having something always there that 'I'll get next week' only to be put back week after week until forgotten about.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 12, 2016, 11:23:30 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 12, 2016, 09:59:27 AM
Only the pre-orders have sold out; when they are "released", they will be back in stock. Of course, that does mean you'll be kept waiting a bit a longer, but it could be worse.

Speaking of which, the LE Canoness sold out everywhere online and in stores within about 3 minutes flat.
And instead of just allowing customers to pre-order more (like they are doing with their "Made to Order" range of models), you have to sign up to an email notification for when they are back in stock and are then limited to one per customer per purchase (assuming you get the email, and log in, and buy it before they are sold out again).
Considering they sold out again several times over the weekend (in  just a few minutes each time), their current sales method doesn't seem to be especially efficient!  ;D

I was going to buy this mini but after I saw how they were managing the sale I said "Fuk it." That would have included buying a whole bunch of paints to go with it.

Don't have time for this kinda crap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 12, 2016, 12:13:53 PM
I dunno, they seem to manage it just fine with their "Made to Order", and that's a limited window of opportunity too - but it doesn't frustrate your customers doing so. People have a week or so to order whatever they like, then the offer ends and GW make as many as needed to fill the orders. Simple, logical, easy.

Besides that, this figure will remain available via mail order for as long as they deem there is reasonable demand for it apparently (so it's not even that limited), but I suspect people like Ray above will just lose interest in bothering altogether.

Like I said, the "email, then hope for the best, but miss out again" is not a great sales model.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on December 12, 2016, 12:43:43 PM
If the new Canoness mini doesn't reappear before Tuesday Im just going to try my luck at the local GW store on Saturday.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on December 12, 2016, 01:18:42 PM
eminis has her on preorder. She is marked as out of stock, but you can still add her to the cart and checkout. I have used them in the past on various occasions and never had a problem with them.

http://www.e-minis.net/imperial-agents/adepta-sororitas-canoness-veridyan-edlimitada-prepedido-p-85383.html?language=en

Might be a bit expensive though, especiqally for those outside the Iberian peninsula since they use signed for delivery.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 12, 2016, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 12, 2016, 11:23:30 AM
I was going to buy this mini but after I saw how they were managing the sale I said "Fuk it." That would have included buying a whole bunch of paints to go with it.

Don't have time for this kinda crap.

Exactly. GW loves these kind of stupid games. I gave up on them a long time ago
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on December 12, 2016, 10:20:37 PM
Quote from: grant on December 12, 2016, 02:37:42 PM
Exactly. GW loves these kind of stupid games. I gave up on them a long time ago

It's very effective at building hype amongst their fanbase, mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on December 12, 2016, 10:22:49 PM
Around here the battleforce boxes were one per store for preorder, and the Sylvaneth one was out of stock already next week for the regular orders... I was really lucky to get one :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 13, 2016, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: McMordain on December 12, 2016, 10:22:49 PM
Around here the battleforce boxes were one per store for preorder, and the Sylvaneth one was out of stock already next week for the regular orders... I was really lucky to get one :)

Lucky bugger!  ;)

Oddly enough Wayland have just put the Sylvaneth battleforce box up as 'awaiting reprint' when they originally didn't even list them. I'm hoping GW are going to restock them because I thought they were a one and done set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on December 17, 2016, 04:02:26 PM
Well the manager at the local GW kept hold of a Canoness for me, its a resin miniature, why its resin instead of plastic is beyond me, but there's no casting defects, so thats a plus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 17, 2016, 05:33:44 PM
Plastic is crazy expensive for something they're only going for a limited run.  (and the Sisters players would wig out if a plastic mold was made for Sisters as it would indicate they might actually continue supporting the army).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on December 17, 2016, 10:19:33 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 17, 2016, 05:33:44 PM
Plastic is crazy expensive for something they're only going for a limited run.  (and the Sisters players would wig out if a plastic mold was made for Sisters as it would indicate they might actually continue supporting the army).

It's not a limited figure though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 17, 2016, 10:57:46 PM
They said it would be available for a limited time only, right?.  Now, they could pull a Space Hulk and put her out every 2-3 years...but that's a real waste of a plastic mold which can be pretty damn expensive.  If it were plastic it'd be for constant sale for the next 10+ years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 18, 2016, 12:34:57 AM
Well it could be limited time only by saying, you can purchase this all of 2016 and 2017. You can't purchase it between Jan 2018 and March 2018. After that you can purchase it until we go under.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on December 19, 2016, 07:08:11 AM
Upcoming Khorne Dragon from Forgeworld:

(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/forumfiles/khorne-dragon1.jpg)
(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/forumfiles/khorne-dragon2.jpg)
(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/forumfiles/khorne-dragon3.jpg)
(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/forumfiles/khorne-dragon4.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on December 19, 2016, 07:49:04 AM
HOLY S^&TSNACKS!!

I see the Warrior is going to be sat on his back. Undoubtedly wielding some close combat weapon that will never reach any enemy from way up there.
I...
It's just to much. I don't see how this could be of any gaming value and as a display piece it's still way over the top.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on December 19, 2016, 08:17:17 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on December 19, 2016, 07:49:04 AM
HOLY S^&TSNACKS!!

I see the Warrior is going to be sat on his back. Undoubtedly wielding some close combat weapon that will never reach any enemy from way up there.
I...
It's just to much. I don't see how this could be of any gaming value and as a display piece it's still way over the top.

Maybe he is sitting there just to guide the beast ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 19, 2016, 08:23:56 AM
Nicely sculpted but ... Skullz under the skin, really? not much I like about that. Give me the Heresy dragon any day over that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 19, 2016, 09:22:11 AM
I think the skulls under the skin are a cool idea, chaos should manifest itself in strange ways. The voivod is right though, he is going to need a very long spear.

As for forge world pieces beeing to large to game with, I think crossed and burned that bridge a while back. FW on occasion makes ridiculously large and arguably cool "miniatures" for about the kind of price you would expect. They then humour us by writing some rules for these models. It's silly but I don't mind.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 19, 2016, 11:41:23 AM
Age of Sigmar Apocalypse... wait...wasn't that the other way around...??  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 19, 2016, 02:14:09 PM
I just couldn't see sending that much money to Forgeworld when their resin is so spotty.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 19, 2016, 07:45:56 PM
I got the spire of dawn box (I have my ways...)
For £50 it's easily worth the cost.
All the island of blood miniatures, a little booklet containing some fluff from teh elf and skaven points of view, some warscrolls and the AoS rules.
I think it makes a nice alternative starter box for people who are already into the hobby and want to try AoS out, Or for kids who perhaps aren't ready to tackle the big starter box.

It is a little thin in terms of not having any scenarios to play through which is where AOS really shines but i see it as a companion box to the generals handbook, you have the two armies, play a couple of big battle games than use the GHB to expand your play options.


all in all i'd give it a solid 5 stars even if it is a reboxed product, simply because it's good value and a great way to get into the game or to lure friends in that doesn't revolve around khorne and the stormcasts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 20, 2016, 12:45:28 PM
Quote from: nic-e on December 19, 2016, 07:45:56 PM
all in all i'd give it a solid 5 stars even if it is a reboxed product, simply because it's good value and a great way to get into the game or to lure friends in that doesn't revolve around khorne and the stormcasts.


It's also tremendous value as a army set for non-GW games. I picked up a few of the sprues and some Biostrip-destined figures from my local shop when I got back into gaming, and they're terrific figures. They're also very "mass-battle-friendly", in that the spearmen are (or can be positioned) with their weapons upright. For £50, you get two full-sized (24-point) Hordes of the Things armies with additional options:

Skaven from the following:
6 x hordes @1 point (bases of five skaven infantry, so 30 of the total)
4 x warband @2 points (bases of three of the fiercer-looking skaven infantry with the hero, gunner and beast master thrown in)
2 x behemoth @ 4 points (the rat-ogres - which are just the perfect size for HOTT behemoths)
2 x artillery @ 3 points (flamethrower and mortar crews)
1 x sneaker @ 3 points OR 1 x lurker @ 1 point (the spare skaven infantryman from above, assembled thus):
(http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=77384.0;attach=46066;image)

Or you could configure the infantry as a mix of spears, warbands and/or hordes.

Elves from the following:
3 x spears OR 3 x shooters @ 2 points
3 x blades @ 2 points
1 x aerial hero @ 6 points OR 1 x flyer @ 2 points OR 1 x "dragon" @ 4 points (the griffin-rider)
1 x hero @ 4 points (the mounted leader)
2 x riders @ 2 points (the rest of the cavalry)
1 x magician @ 4 points (the wizard)
2 x cleric @ 3 points OR paladin @ 4 points (any of the command figures left over from the infantry allocations)

Or you could just make a two-figure infantry base with an officer or a standard-bearer.

I'm labouring the point slightly here, but I can't think of a better purchase for someone who wanted to get into HOTT or a similar game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 20, 2016, 01:10:45 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 20, 2016, 12:45:28 PM
I'm labouring the point slightly here, but I can't think of a better purchase for someone who wanted to get into HOTT or a similar game.

I'd argue any smaller scale will run you less for a more epic army. however within 28mm you are right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on December 20, 2016, 01:43:54 PM
Quote from: YPU on December 20, 2016, 01:10:45 PM
I'd argue any smaller scale will run you less for a more epic army. however within 28mm you are right.

Yes, smaller scales are definitely cheaper. I think HOTT looks best in 28mm, though, given the 3' x 3' playing space and the relatively low model count.

But for "epic", that boxed set is hard to beat, I reckon: you get an aerial hero (or whatever you want to use the griffin as; I'd be tempted to use it as a dragon in HOTT, which would give it that "swoops in to save the day just when the battle looks lost" feel), 2 x artillery, 2 x behemoth, and sundry heroes and magicians. Basically, you get more "specials" than you can legally field in any standard 24-point army. And that gives you plenty of choice.

Actually, now I think about it, you could stretch that boxed set a good deal further if you made the skaven entirely warbands and/or spears: with the command figures, you'd get 14 2-point elements and you could then use the warlock with the musket as a magician. That's 32 points right there, with 8 points of behemoths and 6 points of artillery giving you almost enough for two 24-point armies. And if you turned one warband into two sneaker elements, you'd get past 48 points ...

For the elves, you could base all the infantry two to a base to get 20 points of infantry and 4 points of riders, with another 14 points of magicians and heroes.

So that's potentially three and a half HOTT armies for £50. Not bad at all!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 20, 2016, 03:49:59 PM
(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/gathstorm-1.jpg)

As a long time Sisters of Battle fan, color me excited.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 20, 2016, 03:52:35 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on December 20, 2016, 01:43:54 PM
Yes, smaller scales are definitely cheaper. I think HOTT looks best in 28mm, though, given the 3' x 3' playing space and the relatively low model count.

hmm, I catch your drift. However I personally always felt that HOTT feels a bit strange with only a few models on a base. If there are 3 guys who have rules that are clearly written for a whole regiment in formation.

But that's a discussion for another topic, not the GW one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on December 20, 2016, 04:07:28 PM
Those look sharp!  I want some :) .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 20, 2016, 04:28:51 PM
So the big news the last couple of days:  Fall of Cadia

New plastic models (as shown above) and a hopeful movement of the storyline.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 20, 2016, 04:34:26 PM
That's actually interesting. I know a lot of people who prefer their Warhammer storyline static.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 20, 2016, 04:43:50 PM
I'm all about moving a story line assuming you don't "End Times" it and destroy everything you've built over the last 25-30 years.  You can do all kinds of story line adjustment without even changing rules or codices/armies/models/etc.  For instance, if Chaos starts beating the sh_t out of the rest of the 40K universe...it doesn't change a single thing (assuming they don't arbitrarily state "Oh, and the Tau were wiped out completely..." etc.) other than the narrative or story to begin your small game of 40K.

The 40K story line has been incredibly stagnant and honestly quite boring for a long time.  Granted GW have ret-conned a lot of stuff and made it terrible in their pursuit of new models and toys - the universe is pretty blase.  For a terribly long time we've had:

Space Marines: Superheros who swoop in to save the day
Imperial Guard: We sit in trenches and die by the millions to showcase the gravity of a situation
Eldar: We zip around on shipworlds and provide the deus ex machina where needed.
Tau: We're communal space farmers with amazing weapons
Chaos: We raid stuff, just don't come near the Eye of Terror, we've outlined it nicely on the map for you
Orks: We inexplicably haven't taken over the galaxy yet
Tyranids: Here's our number, call us when you need a minor story twist or a "near extinction" event of a popular group...then inexplicably disappear.
Dark Eldar: We're space pirates with no genuinely large ambitions...we shouldn't even be a factor.
Sisters of Battle: We're busy praying, don't bug us
Necrons: We flip like a coin and our background changes every six months to fit whatever GW needs.

Really there isn't any over-arching story worth telling at the moment.  Sure the armies are all in positions to engage each other randomly, which is nice for wargaming.  But story?  There isn't one.  I think this is why the Horus Heresy stuff has been quite successful for them - it's an actual story (even though we know the damn ending!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on December 20, 2016, 05:00:41 PM
@YPU

For years the common most common complaint I could recall was that both Warhammer universes didn't change.  In 40k in particular I remember a couple of world campaign events and successive Chaos codexes promising Abaddon's "next" Black Crusade being just over horizon.  Nothing ever came of it and there was a stagnation that became the norm.

Change is good.  I think it was one of the better decisions to change things within their IPs.  I think it would have been better received had it been incremental.  It didn't translate as well to the formerly stagnant universes and the similarly stagnant, entrenched fan base.  You cook frogs better if you heat the water when they are in it than when try to toss them in when it's at a boil.

The 40k event doesn't feel like as much a boomerang as the fantasy change up because there was an expectation this was supposed to occur for ages.  I don't think that any change would seem as jarring within the sci fi side of the house because the fantasy analogue already experienced such a shift.

I'm rather curious about the whole thing and looking forward to it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 20, 2016, 05:06:18 PM
I've been out of GW stuff for long enough that I don't really care what they do. But like I said some of the 40K players I know were kind of bashing warmachines more mobile storylines, since it was hard to "find your place" in them.

I think elbows has a interesting point on the retcons though. If you are going to change things change forwards, not backwards.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 20, 2016, 07:01:17 PM
They look like they're dragging toilet paper behind them. Weird.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 20, 2016, 07:10:50 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on December 20, 2016, 03:49:59 PM
As a long time Sisters of Battle fan, color me excited.

Me too, they look great... especially in plastic.

I have a whole army of unpainted sisters, but I'm wondering if I can convert these into female Stormcast Eternals....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 20, 2016, 07:17:43 PM
Those Sisters look pretty good.
I reckon that they will sell pretty well.
 8)

Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 20, 2016, 07:10:50 PM
I have a whole army of unpainted sisters, but I'm wondering if I can convert these into female Stormcast Eternals....

At first glimpse, that is what I thought they were.
So it should be quite possible to do exactly that.
 8)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 20, 2016, 08:50:38 PM
Games workshop have been saying in the comments on facebook that they aren't running an end times for 40k, that was strictly confined to fantasy.
This is purely a psu to get add some new narrative to the setting.

And also to give me a sweet new plastic female inquisitor model!
(GW finally making female models with faces that aren't melted and bodies that aren't sinewy leather shoelaces matted together.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 20, 2016, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: grant on December 20, 2016, 07:01:17 PM
They look like they're dragging toilet paper behind them. Weird.


Not as weird as a big clunky plastic flight stand or a black pole wedged into their nethers.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 20, 2016, 11:20:05 PM
I have a GW quick question :-) I dropped out of Citadel & GW when they started going plastic end of the 80's, leading to me quitting the hobby altogether. I've been lured back by the Dredd miniatures game & those leads, and in the process of getting proxies for that, I've kind of ended up with a 40k Sisters of Battle army. And some Witch hunters (because someone put them on a buy now on ebay extremely cheap). And I've discovered I still have a load of metal Space Marines from the end 80's. So as well as Dredd, I thought I may as well get the rules for this stuff so I can also wargame it 40k. Not bothered about most recent rules as I'm not getting back into GW current stuff because I can't deal with plastic.

I picked up this Codex below for Sisters of Battle. I assume the Codex are particular to a certain (I imagine by now out of date) rules edition? Can someone tell me if this Witch Hunters codex 2nd picture down would go / is same period edition as that SoB I bought, and which rules edition am I best going for? Do I need to get the rules that were contemporary to those codex and if so which is that (a picture of the cover would help loads) or would they work with the new set? If they'd work with any, which rules are the best ones to get? Thanks.

(http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/OR4AAOSw2xRYUXl3/s-l225.jpg)

(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/jt0AAOSwXeJYJfcX/$_103.JPG?set_id=880000500F)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 21, 2016, 12:01:00 AM
Nope.  The Sisters of Battle codex you've shown is from 2nd edition, the Witch Hunters from 3rd.  They are MASSIVELY different games (though 3rd-7th use similar stats/rules, etc.). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 21, 2016, 12:13:02 AM
Thanks for the info, good job I checked :-P It was the only Sisters Codex available anywhere (got one from Amazon) and only version ever sold on ebay on back searches. I guess it will still be good for background. I noticed that Witch Hunters Codex reckons to also cover 'some' of the Sisters stuff, so maybe that updates it and together they'd be enough to work with the 3rd edition rules (that sound a better option as they seem to cover a long period)?

Or would that 3rd edition Witch Hunters be enough on it's own to cover SoB without the 2nd edition SoB codex? (I could cancel that SoB order I only placed it this evening).

And which in your opinion is the best rule edition to go with, 2nd or 3rd?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 21, 2016, 01:20:51 AM
I love that 2nd edition book, I think it's good to have for just for background, relic descriptions, and characters. I believe it is still the book with the most 'pure Sisters' material.

I never played using the Witch Hunters book (I actually thought it was 4th edition but it looks like I was wrong. 3rd edition Sisters had a list in 'Chapter Approved' as well) but I have it anyway ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 21, 2016, 01:40:28 AM
I can't comment on the rules, as I prefer 2nd, but a lot of people like other editions.  For material/quality 2nd had (by far) the best codices with the most fluff, background and fully fleshed out lists.  If anything you'd like it for the pictures, colour plates, and storyline materials.  Also the 2nd edition Sisters of Battle codex is rare, so it's always a good buy.  They don't have a large army list though (it's never been a force that was given much real solidity by itself). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 21, 2016, 03:17:54 AM
Thank you, I think then, along with other input I've had I'm going to stick with the SoB book I bought and go 2nd edition. It will probably be more in tune with the 1st edition I played years ago & remember. It's the older original GW that I have a connection with anyway and that's kind of the point of my dabbling (one of the reasons the SoB clicked for me is because the helmet / gothic German armour reminds me of the original Citadel FA10 Adventurer), I'll probably find that connection with old GW more in their 2nd edition than in their later stuff. And as you say it's a good buy anyway, it can all cost a lot but as long as what you're buying is quality it's investing not consuming.

And I guess that's the thing with 3rd edition being more available & cheaper, it will likely be much less collectable going forward. I just got side tracked by the prospect of lots of cheap 3rd edition codex's. Blood Angels are pretty, but then so too are Dark Angels and Space Wolves. And Black Templars. A few £ per codex I could have had a (small) number of tiny units for lots of colour and known what they were :-)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 21, 2016, 10:53:13 AM
That awkward moment when you realise the toilet roll got tucked into the back of your knickers and you've been trailing it around for the last hour without realising.

Quote from: Dr Mathias on December 20, 2016, 03:49:59 PM
(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/gathstorm-1.jpg)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 21, 2016, 11:06:21 AM
Quote from: Cubs on December 21, 2016, 10:53:13 AM
That awkward moment when you realise the toilet roll got tucked into the back of your knickers and you've been trailing it around for the last hour without realising.

All you need is an Andrex puppy on the base and you are sorted.
 ;D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on December 21, 2016, 11:06:37 AM
Apart from now not being able to not see toiletpaper, I actually like the models.
I'm a sucker for angelic stuff and these are quite nice.

Once again the Saint falls firmly in the "how the hell do I transport this' category.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 21, 2016, 11:29:51 AM
I almost envy Ulfhednar, beeing able to jump into one of those old editions without having all the "baggage" from other editions kind of sounds nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 21, 2016, 11:53:10 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on December 21, 2016, 11:06:37 AM
Once again the Saint falls firmly in the "how the hell do I transport this' category.

Make it in two parts with a magnetic join where the toilet roll meets the knickers?
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on December 21, 2016, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 21, 2016, 10:53:13 AM
That awkward moment when you realise the toilet roll got tucked into the back of your knickers and you've been trailing it around for the last hour without realising.

GW has gone catholic in a way my Gustavus Adolphus idealizing upbringing makes me recoil. They look like something you would find in the ceiling of the cathedral of The Holy Mother of the Immaculate Conception. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on December 21, 2016, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 21, 2016, 10:53:13 AM
That awkward moment when you realise the toilet roll got tucked into the back of your knickers and you've been trailing it around for the last hour without realising.



There is an element of The Amazing Wanda in that sculpt, like "Hey presto!" and white doves spew forth from her sleeve.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 21, 2016, 01:04:20 PM

There is no limit to where and when GW find their insperation/ideas to take, and they are more than capable to combine Magic, religion and toilet roll adverts into the GW gaming hobby...

Whatever it takes to save the 40K Universe!

Nice minis though.

Now, where can I get an armor plated, skull covered toilet roll chasing puppy from. With jetpack and gun options..


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 21, 2016, 01:06:13 PM
Quote from: Hammers on December 21, 2016, 12:26:40 PM
There is an element of The Amazing Wanda in that sculpt, like "Hey presto!" and white doves spew forth from her sleeve.

You, sir, have a much cleaner mind than I do ;D Given their location, sleeve was not quite the body area that sprung to mind.

To the brain bleach o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 21, 2016, 01:34:16 PM
Yes no baggage (:-P I do as you'll see, just from a lot longer back). I've discovered in looking back at all this that I missed out a lot too because apparently GW stayed good in places for longer than I realised at the time. Effectively everything Games Workshop from around 1990 through to current day is completely new to me, it wasn't just me that walked away when they started going plastic through the early 90's it was everyone I knew who'd previously been into them gave up on it and have never touched it since, so I've not even known anyone still involved for them to have pointed the odd thing out to me. I got some old boxes out of storage the other day that haven't been touched in over 25 years, full of just bought and abandoned GW stuff like the 'new' Harlequin box set, the new Green Knight & High Elf Pegasus & loads of recently released High Elves (with rubbish plastic horses), then all the 'new' Epic & Titan box sets with all their sprues (that was the very last thing, I thought I could do that metal and got a load of epic leads but then they went all plastic)... And a box of GW plastic Cybermen and Daleks, they were ££££ing awful.

I think for my generation (Generation X, in the UK defined by our experience of being children in & forming our principles through our experience of the 1970's, being the first fully TV bombarded / saturated children who were conned over & over again by TV advertising claiming this or that toy or game were wonder things and super quality but that turned out to be absolute plastic trash, and the generation most immersed in playing with plastic airfix toy soldiers (which was massive in the 70's, Citadel & lead miniatures originally seemed like the mature & honest upgrade to that, when they started going plastic it was like a downgrade back into trashy children's toys and being conned again it was good stuff). And from a general view, lead miniatures are art, in pewter they're quite obviously proper Arts and Crafts movement, in plastic they're just not, they're a cynical and exact opposite. The wrong generation and those in it, the architects rather than the artists got to decide and they're still deciding wrong & compounding it, like they seem adamant GW's / Citadels future is plastic.

I'd never even heard of Sisters of Battle before a month ago & they are excellent, and I've been really surprised to discover how many good metal figures GW appear to have made in the 90's, a few really beautiful ones like the Witch Hunters, that Space Marine Veteran Vanguard set (with the jumpacks), the Emperors Champion, etc, but it's impossible to do much with them as almost all the other general marines have plastic arms and weapons, it looks like an entire project to just get one unit of grunt marines sorted in metal. Even the plastic backpacks are wrong, even painted you can still see they're plastic because the light sits on the material differently & the plastic backpack is first thing you touch when you go to move a model and it screams back it's a plastic toy. When I get round to sorting out my small 40k forces (in a while after my Dredd project that is easy in comparison) I'm going to be spending loads on Rogue Trader Space Marine metal packs off ebay.

This is why Sisters of Battle are ace and why I bought some (first GW things I've bought in 25+ years and even some direct off them), because they are metal (and not on chunky steroids). But then those pictures of the upcoming plastic Sisters of Battle make me sigh, if those were metal I'd be ready to throw money at them & be really looking forward to it, in resin I wouldn't bother unless it was purely for paint and display (which doesn't excite me as I want to interact with this art, which means gaming with it), in plastic you couldn't pay me to want one. You see toilet roll, I see rolling tumbleweed, the end of the last good (metal) Citadel range (and just as I'd discovered it existed).

But the SoB are there and that's ace, good 'old' GW, and there'll be metal proxies to add some new stuff, like Raging Heroes should be doing metals for their recent Nuns with guns kickstarter. It is a massive opportunity for the smaller manufacturers and grass roots to step up to the mature art market that GW are apparently intent on abandoning, those that are still arty (not too true life) & not resin only and still do metal should do well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 21, 2016, 01:35:09 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 21, 2016, 01:04:20 PM

Now, where can I get an armor plated, skull covered toilet roll chasing puppy from. With jetpack and gun options..


 lol lol
I am tempted to make one now.
 ;D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on December 21, 2016, 01:50:36 PM
Quote from: Ulfhednar on December 21, 2016, 01:34:16 PM
...This is why Sisters of Battle are ace and why I bought some (first GW things I've bought in 25+ years and even some direct off them), because they are metal (and not on chunky steroids). But then those pictures of the upcoming plastic Sisters of Battle make me sigh, if those were metal I'd be ready to throw money at them & be really looking forward to it...

You obviously have a personal preference for metal as opposed to plastic but the new sisters would be impossible to produce in metal - the scrolls would be too thin to hold the model up.  Plastic has its place, I don't think you can argue that metal = art and plastic = tat.  There are some very nice plastic kits and some rubbish metal figures.  The early plastics from GW were awful (I'm thinking those Orcs) but the industry has come a long way since then. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 21, 2016, 01:57:11 PM
Ulfhednar, since you mention the limited availability of full metal miniatures (especially marines) you might be interested in "In the Emperors Name" its a free variant ruleset written by fans who preferred a smaller scale skirmish game with simpler rules. It's specifically focused on the 40k background but in no way derivative from the 40k rules. It can be found here: https://iten-game.org/ (https://iten-game.org/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 21, 2016, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: Mason on December 21, 2016, 01:35:09 PM
lol lol
I am tempted to make one now.
 ;D



Go on - do it...do it.. - Armored flying Puppies, will make a change from flying zombie babies and skulls..

At least then will I know where to get one from  ;D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 21, 2016, 02:07:58 PM
Re GW helping the hobby - I remember the 70's, an historic wargaming / model and / or fantasy gaming type shop in almost every town near me. One in Shrewsbury, Bagnall's in Stafford, a fantastic one in Hanley in Stoke, a couple in Chester, an awesome Games Workshop in Birmingham that stocked all sorts of other peoples products (an absolute wonder land), but also small retailers in Birmingham that sold odd stuff, even one guy in a Victorian type arcade trading out of an alcove no bigger than a cupboard and over a half stable door like an old cigarette vendor. I was lucky to be taken round those history wargaming & model places because my Step Dad was into modelling and historic a bit, and I discovered fantasy leads thanks to his Military Modelling that carried a Hincliffe / Skytrex ad for the Ralph Bakshi Lord of the Rings film licensed miniatures they were selling I think Christmas 1978. So I have Hinchliffe to thank :-) Then I discovered Citadel via one of those independent model shops (one in Scarborough when we were on holiday who stocked Citadels blue 1980 Catalogue), but they weren't inventing anything, Ral Partha were already doing it, Citadel just did it better & best out of everyone (least like statues, most animate & interactive, most personable).

I'm a massive fan of what they did up to late 80's early 90's, I realise now I jumped ship too soon and they continued to be excellent for longer than I thought, but what they do now (going all plastic) is false and only about commerce, and unfortunately that's almost always very short sighted. Plastic will likely make them & GW loads within their careers, by the time it is landfill and made Citadels brand no better, they won't care they're sorted.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 21, 2016, 02:19:15 PM
Re the alternate rules, thank you I'll have a look, though I'm not really too bothered with rules, I'm almost entirely about the miniatures (just didn't want to waste money on the wrong rules). If they made leads I wouldn't care about rules like originally, we were fantasy wargaming before Warhammer was released or even proposed making it up ourselves or using the ridiculously basic rules out of Fighting Fantasy Warlock of Firetop Mountain, was just as much fun as Warhammer ended up being. The alternate rules community sounds good though and worth looking up.

Re the impracticality of those designs in lead, then imo the designs aren't right, they're like Japanese plastic manga / anime stuff (that is only collectable / valuable because they artificially contrive to make it so rare then hype it, and because it's so fashion focused, making it a fad & construct, temporary), which really considering this started out as / was a natural extension of the original English Arts and Crafts movement (just like Tolkien was), is such a sell out it's embarrassing. The sculptors are ace, the painters are ace, but I don't like the plastic direction they're having to accommodate and the material kills any inherent value in the item, they're just gaming pieces, fancy plastic counters. All GW need to do is to continue to do metal versions, even on a limited basis would be ok, but to throw it all into plastic is to throw away its greatest credibility, the fact it is quality, mature, real, and is art. Kids will get to 18 or 19 with this, their girlfriends will accuse them of playing with toys, plastic there's no argument like there was with leads, GW are turning themselves into a toy manufacturer.

edit - and I reckon this is the kind of influence they should be going with but I think they're too removed from source to get it.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/8c/db/b5/8cdbb56a6697c8a58f381d03d0a4c62c.jpg)

Re figures for others to make to ride off GW, studying ebay, female servitors & female inquisition seem to be where it's at.

And Nuns in general, you only have to surf ebay to see what lots of people want. Metal female witch hunters, female inquisition, female servitors (like Raging Heroes zombie girls that seem set to augment their Nuns in a servitor role), Sci-Fi Nuns with guns. Sisters of Sigmar are crazy prices (and from what I've seen on blogs to some extent for converting to sci-fi).

edit - and that's not to criticise Japanese anime / manga at all, I guess because their culture was reborn new after WW2 and they reinvented themselves from almost medieval to cutting edge modern engineering and tech, plastic is like an Arts and Crafts material to & for them like it isn't for us. I saw an amazing anime style Nazgul on horse cast in plastic and painted anime style for sale a while back, was obviously going to end up being worth loads cuz the material had integrity with the culture that visualised it, made it real & was proper art. Plastic for our culture isn't 'real' (it used to mean false in slang) to be able to cross over into art like it can for them, our Arts and Crafts was / is lead / pewter, copper, silver, gold (hand workable metals), wood, stained glass, stone, jewels etc, like in (proper) Tolkien (in fact exactly like how we take those things into our Sci-Fi, 40k & Steampunk is full of those things), like we try & paint the miniatures to shine with light like the Pre-Raphs and Waterhouse, we were Victorian because we are, not plastic. To conclude rant (I knew I shouldn't go near Citadel) I think it's the case GW have stated they're going potentially totally plastic because metal is too costly for them to do, I think long term for their brand it's too costly for them not to do metal to some degree and alongside, plastic makes it mass market and affordable which it needs to be, resin is great but is about a different art (painting), it's not enough, they need metal too as their art & for their integrity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 21, 2016, 06:32:17 PM
Re Sisters of Battle, in case anyone is interested Canoness Veridyan in resin finecast is just now back in stock on GW's site for a lot less than people are bidding for them on ebay. I got one because I agree resin is quality, it's just imo for paint & display & not the right medium for gaming / handling (given the chance with that character I'd get both, each for a different purpose).

(I really can't see why they can't do (if needs be limited) metal runs too of all this key stuff, their reasoning is flawed, they won't change people and mostly it's those approaching middle age, the original generation coming back to the hobby with money to spend and time to put into this, they're on ebay buying old metals for loads of money and ignoring the plastic stuff and GW totally, they even bid high on GW metal stuff that's never been OOP (or certainly isn't now and doesn't seem to have been and is lots cheaper on the GW site), they just assume it is OOP cuz they think GW is all plastic now and they won't go there. GW should wake up a bit).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Keith on December 21, 2016, 08:49:40 PM
Selling metals in the U.S. and some other countries can be a nightmare, and a company the size of Games Workshop would most likely have to start including a lot of very scary health disclaimers in states like California.

Shipping costs are exceptionally high (or factor in the cost of production spread internationally). Add to this how destructive metal miniatures can be to packaging with blisters etc. getting destroyed really quickly with very light handling.

A large part of their audience, probably the majority, are going to struggle with the skills required to get a good result with metals (pinning, filling and matching mis-aligned parts etc.).

I imagine with distribution at their levels the returns rate was pretty scary too.

Those were just a few points that immediately came to mind from my own experiences. I can imagine there is almost no benefit to Games Workshop supporting metals and can sympathise with them on that. Even the production pipeline must be far more straightforward to project manage these days.

I'm a lead-head at heart but have to admit that GW have been doing wonderful things in plastic for years. It's a more than acceptable medium for the scale modelling community and no less for ours (at least in my opinion).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 21, 2016, 10:40:30 PM
Yes I agree the plastic serves a mass market purpose for them & for many customers and great, but it is isn't what the core of the hobby is / what birthed it, GW didn't invent it they were just lucky enough to be in the right place & time as it was happening anyway, and sharp and enthusiastic enough to make the most of it, then they monopolised it, which was ok until it wasn't, but whatever it's not their's to fundamentally sell out & despoil so it suits them perfectly, though they are trying, it will end up escaping them. And re distribution, I think it's shocking American Reaper haven't had such a problem with it that they've usurped Citadel as the go to manufacturer for quality miniature characters, seems many in UK import loads while not giving Citadel a glance, because whatever GW try and pretend, plastic is not and will never be attractive or collectable, at least used for Western culture, it's a fundamental contradiction.

Btw, does anyone know if that current / latest version of Sisters of Battle Immolator has a plastic gunner? I ordered one to get free postage on the resin Canoness I bought today when they appeared back in stock but now realise it's probably a plastic gunner like in airfix kits isn't it :-(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Keith on December 21, 2016, 11:01:52 PM
Well, all seems a bit 'twenty years after the event' to me, but there you go. I sell metal figures myself, but beyond a certain volumes manufacturing is a nightmare.

For the record Reaper distribution is nothing near GWs. No shops and previously not particularly well represented in Europe. They are big certainly but even they've shifted massively into particularly affordable/cheap plastics (Bones).

At least the market is well serviced by metal alternatives these days so something for everyone.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on December 21, 2016, 11:05:57 PM
Quote from: Ulfhednar on December 21, 2016, 10:40:30 PM
plastic is not and will never be attractive or collectable

Well now surely that's just your (rather strong) opinion, and many people will definitely disagree.

Quote
Btw, does anyone know if that current / latest version of Sisters of Battle Immolator has a plastic gunner? I ordered one to get free postage on the resin Canoness I bought today when they appeared back in stock but now realise it's probably a plastic gunner like in airfix kits isn't it :-(

You really don't like plastic do you! You instantly disregard something if it has any ammount of plastic?

Now don't get me wrong, I like metal, and don't like BAD plastic sculpts.
I got into GW in the mid 90s, which is when plastic was getting big, but the plastic kits were definitely sub-par compared to metals, the attraction being they were cheap and easier to build up large regiments with, but you'd use metals for your characters, command groups, etc. Most of the time the plastic sets were just simpler monopose versions of existing metals, usually a bit 'chunkier' in appearance (best example being the Jes Goodwin high elf archers and spearmen. The plastics did the job, but if you could afford it, the metals did the same thing but looked so much better!)
By the late 90s they has started introducing loads of new plastic multi-part 'regiment sets', which at the time were the best thing I'd ever seen, mostly due to how you could construct your own models piece by piece, but looking back they did mostly look a bit goofy, and the metals were always better.
But today things are very different. GW has gone pretty much all plastic. I LOATHE their current style, and none of it appeals to me... but that's more to do with aesthetics rather than the material. Though having said that, a few years back (10 years) when they were doing good quality metals still alongside plastics, I was definitely preaching about how a lot of the new kits, though technically good, looked 'too plastic', and had the 'toy' look that you talk about. But now it's pretty much all plastics - though I don't like the style of the sculpts, that's just as much to do with the fact that I have no interest in GW and little interest in fantasy and sci-fi now... but I cannot deny their current kits are technically fantastic.

But let's take a look beyond GW. Look at Perry Miniatures.
They are arguably the leaders when it comes to plastic historical kits, and their plastics are FANTASTIC. Their metals are just as good sculpts, but the casting quality is notably inferior. Though once painted up they look just as good (as long as you don't look too close at certain areas), whilst you are painting them most people must surely agree the plastics are much better in every way. Their plastics definitely don't have that 'toy' quality.
BUT... with multi-part plastics, assembly is very important. I often see badly constructed Perry plastics (I'm talking about the WOTR sets here) which look awkward. But constructed well, and they look fantastic.

But other company's plastics are another story IMO. Gripping Beast, Fireforge and Conquest all have medieval / dark ages plastic sets which are MASSIVELY INFERIOR to the Perry ones, and look like goofy toys (in my opinion!). So I guess that goes to show how plastics can look bad, but when done right can look fantastic, can rival and at times better good metals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 21, 2016, 11:07:07 PM
If you dislike plastics - any fore into 40K is going to be tough.  I don't care for plastics myself, but I'm not opposed to buying them.  There's something to be said about a brilliant modular plastic kit - it's tremendously purposeful in wargaming for a lot of folks.  I like metals for the heft and simplicity of the sculpts (I like the simplicity of painting single piece metals).

If you refuse to work with plastics you're making a conscious decision based on your opinion, and you'll have to suffer for it. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 12:12:38 AM
:-) After double double checking it definitely no longer says it's any part metal I've just cancelled my Immolator (& also my Canoness resin otherwise would have paid postage on it) order, & my earlier order for a Black Templar Champion resin, I can't face the risk of a warping sword (though nothing against more compact resins for paint & display, like fine delicate bone china you wouldn't game with it but it can be real art, I may order the resin Canoness again if it's still available if more metals to order later).

Re the distribution and production issues of lead, if it was some leads alongside plastics (like Reaper do) everyone's happy and no problems (like it seems 90's was), it's plastic only that makes no sense except for GW who I'd guess want to go there because their own leads are too much competition for their plastic & resin, and for what they want people to be into for an operation most profitable and easy to run for them / their shareholders / dividends. But it's not up to them to dictate, the market will, and that will be potentially worse than bearing a more difficult and less profitable metal side product to their main plastic range that is actually their core brand & gives their entire range credibility it doesn't have without it. Re the age issue, that was the whole thing with leads, they were adult, which emphasised plastic was for children, they shouldn't take away leads from adults because it's best for kids, they shouldn't take the prospect of leads away from children looking forward to becoming adults with access to superior adult things. And re the environmental issues, however light and easier it is to manufacture and ship plastic at the time, ultimately it's just man made land fill waiting to happen, leads aren't, they're natural, recyclable, and those that survive & are good are little pieces of art & history, that people will always value because they're metal and real.

Re Perry Miniatures and historic plastic, nothing against that at all (in fact I have a load of plastic Esci Napoleonic stuff that was affordable & fun to wargame with while I was hating on Citadel plastics end 80's), but that historic stuff is about realism so it can get away with a non real material, it's not Arts and Crafts / a product of the imagination in the same way Fantasy & Sci-Fi are, it doesn't claim to be art or want to be collectable, it's just a tool (and a really good one that is great for immersion).

I think I get it extremely bad because of being exactly the wrong generation for plastic (which is what made me exactly right generation to have supported Citadel & GW when it all started, who gave us quality leads instead of plastic), but thing is there's going to be a lot of my generation coming back to this hobby as they find they have the time, space, & money to in middle age & then into retirement, I really think GW are going wrong by going totally plastic at exactly the wrong time, it's like them missing out on their own inheritance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on December 22, 2016, 12:36:34 AM
You haven't had a contemporary plastic model on your hands, have you?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 22, 2016, 12:39:08 AM
Therein lies the problem.  You're imagining GW has any interest in selling a few metal figures to the admittedly large Oldhammer audience.  They'll cash in by doing their small metal print-to-order bits, but you'll never see a concerted effort to go back to metals.  I doubt you'll see much of it from any company.  Plastics are more expensive to create molds for, but you can work that mold to death and produce untold thousands of kits.

Their stated goal for the past couple of years has been to eventually go all plastic (hence the $35 plastic single figures...).  I can also guarantee they have no interest in being green or recycling anything until a government or tax law forces them to do so.  It's all profit.  Their sales process about ten years ago was clearly laid out to my buddy who was running a GW store at the time: get parents to spend $200-300 initial investment for their 12-14 year old.  Continuing customers are not our concern.

That may have changed, but that's the kind of thought process you're getting.  I can't fault them for it, as they are simply a business in the practice of producing models.  You see Perry has gone this direction, Malifaux has gone plastics, Dreadball or whatever is going plastic, Warmachine/Hordes are turning to plastics.  Despite having a small audience of older players, the overwhelming majority of consumers want plastics (I'm not one of them).  I don't harbor a grudge, it just is what it is.

There are plenty of old metals on sale for eBay all day long (assuming you don't want any newly designed units).  Learn to strip and re-do them. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 01:30:31 AM
It was contemporary plastic that kicked off my anti-plastic resurgence, someone sold me a plastic as though it was metal and it's a horrible thing compared to the quite beautiful lead version (the dangers of ebay). And while ebay offers up a few it's disappointing that there's nothing new from them to look forward to. But there isn't, they're clearly full on with going plastic you can see it in the new sculpts like those Andrex Puppy Seraphims, that are looking to optimise the fact that they're specifically made out of plastic, it's beginning to look like it's coming off a production line, is mega mass produced and is made for children. And fine, but not at those prices they are crazy, it's a habit from metals (when it was justified) that this new way doesn't deserve customers to keep. Apart from the lack of weight / how horrible they are to touch / inferior they feel (which is a massive issue for gaming pieces) light sits differently on plastic, so paint does too and it shows on people figures (though resins seem good for it and seem same as lead with light or maybe even better, plastic is quite different). I reckon going total plastic will end up a bit of a bump for them, it is a shame after discovering how ace their metal Sisters of Battle (and other 90's things) are / were. But we do have those as you say, it is what it is, I'm going to back Warlord, their metal Dredd range was very good, they have the licence for the whole of 2000AD so maybe finally Nemesis (with real Citadel old metals as proxies while GW heads off to wherever lego goes to die).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ajsalium on December 22, 2016, 02:30:54 AM
Quote from: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 01:30:31 AM
It was contemporary plastic that kicked off my anti-plastic resurgence, someone sold me a plastic as though it was metal and it's a horrible thing compared to the quite beautiful lead version (the dangers of ebay).

May I ask what minis were those?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 04:06:08 AM
It was the Vanguard Veterans with jumpacks (I guess from the late 90's or bit later), I'd just discovered them for first time via a picture of them completely in metal (which was a shock as I thought all Space Marines had plastic arms), found 4 painted on ebay at lead type money but they turned up plastic (I'd had no idea they'd been done in plastic too). They have warped swords but it's the feel and lack weight, plastic just doesn't have the gravity to communicate a thing so serious as something that's supposedly real & alive. They are shells of the real thing and great as short term gaming pieces until things move on for just playing games (if games rather than figures are your priority) but that's all they are, they are long past the bin. And no matter how good the plastic materials have become since, it's still plastic and made up, added to a made up thing like sci-fi or fantasy it makes it all too childlike. And as they design for plastic, the style is becoming smother and ever more Disney.

It really doesn't matter though as all I wanted out of Space Marines was maybe 3 small units, 1 each Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, completely in metal as popular culture / sentimental art for display and for easy going but quality (so adult) gaming with friends. I'll forget about it for now, maybe Citadel will wake up to that as a product for oldhammers and make something like it. And I've got everything I really wanted from Sisters of Battle except a top boss, the metal Celestine is just too wrong, the Canoness is resin, and the new figures (pretty as they are) are going to be plastic. Free with MacDonald's Happy Meals plastic. edit - Actually those new models are close to being beautiful it's such a shame, gothic plastic is a paradox.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 22, 2016, 04:56:54 AM
My colleagues got me the new sister of battle miniature. She's very nice. Great casting and great detail. Really a perfect match for the artwork and i shall look forward to painting her up. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on December 22, 2016, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Ajsalium on December 22, 2016, 12:36:34 AM
You haven't had a contemporary plastic model on your hands, have you?

There aren't any plastic models anymore, only kits. 10+ parts for a 28mm single man-sized miniature is ridiculous in my book. I do own both the Silver Tower and Gorechosen boxed sets as the White Dwarf free Slaughterpriest but honestly I don't understand how those parts come together and individually the parts look far less detailed than they would in metal, as they look more artificial...
Won't buy plastics for the models, only boxed games and I will use my own metals as proxies...  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 22, 2016, 12:11:27 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on December 22, 2016, 11:31:50 AM
Won't buy plastics for the models, only boxed games and I will use my own metals as proxies...  :)

Look on eBay - you'll find the game rules and card components from the recent GW games on sale at a tenner or less.  Cheap way to get the game itself and Betrayal at Calth gets decent reviews just as a game.  Continues to be supported in White Dwarf too.

I like the plastic GW characters - I think you get more complex, realistic poses with them than you can with metal (thin pieces like cloaks especially).  I dread painting some of their more complex plastic troop sets though - too many places that are tough to get to.

In general, plastic is a great medium to work with, transports and stores more easily than metal and I like the level of detail on the models I have (while being happy to admit that the level of detail on my last metal Antares figures just blows the line's plastics away). De gustibus and all that.

Having said that, one of my projects for 2017 may be an all-metal Eldar aspect warrior force, and I've considered going back to my Antares Concord and rebuying the basic troops in metal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: N.C.S.E on December 22, 2016, 12:25:43 PM
The quality of plastic in my book is slightly inferior to metal, but more than balanced by the ease of conversion and modification.

My personal antipathy to plastic comes from the fact that I cannot get a single good looking paintjob on them and I have no idea why!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 01:31:50 PM
Re good paint job on plastic, ask any car resprayer / restorer, it's not possible to make plastic panels look right, because being a totally artificial material it reflects all light off it's top surface. Natural materials like metals like lead (or steel), or skin, wood etc (and it seems resin) absorb however small a proportion of the light they reflect back into their surface first before reflecting it, so unlike plastic their surface is slightly illuminated and merged with the light / world around them, like is the case with everything natural. Plastic will always look artificial by comparison to a natural material in normal lighting, they make painted ones look good / like painted metal in promo photo's via strong artificial lighting, you are being conned over what's possible so you're content with plastic instead of metal.

Lead absorbing & reflecting light was actually a technique used by the Pre-Raphaelites (who were part of the Arts & Crafts movement that evolved through to our time into Tolkien & lead miniatures) used to undercoat their canvass, particularly under painted skin, in thick white lead, so when the painting was finished it would absorb some of the light it was reflecting back, would glow and look genuinely alive, and those paintings do. In the context of what miniatures are and the artistic imagination & natural materials movement that spawned them, plastic is complete heresy and trash, it's an anti-art material, what GW are doing is anti-art and even anti the British art movement that spawned this industry and that they ride off. Them doing gothic styled models in plastic (at the expense of metal that they're seeking to marginalise / leave behind) is like Simon Cowell managing Syd Barret or the Rolling Stones, it's so false, conflicting & undermining it's repulsive.

edit - I wonder why they don't want to set up a separate company, perhaps called Citadel Miniatures, specialised in making versions of their stuff in lead for the oldhammer people, the collectors and the artist types, like they've created that ForgeWorld or whatever it's called for their dedicated plastic and resin? It would be efficient & commercially viable, as big as it's market proved it needed to be and willing to spend up to, I can only think they haven't because it's a simple fact that their leads out compete their plastics and resin, and they think they stand more chance of getting people to buy their fundamentally inferior / anti art plastic that makes them more money if there's no lead alternative.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 22, 2016, 01:52:17 PM
So... a figure coated in primer and several layers of paint and varnish still somehow reflect light depending on the properties of the casting material? Not the shape but the actual material?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 01:55:57 PM
Yes, light is an amazing thing. Car panels have tons of paint layers on them and fibre glass / plastic panels still stand out a mile and look trash. The Pre-Raphalites were using thick oil paint, a proportion of light still passes through it till it hit the lead, was captured in that lead surface and then reflected, illuminating itself and all the layers above it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 22, 2016, 01:58:47 PM
Truly.

What about the fact that all metal miniatures are originally made in either epoxy putty, polymer clay or are 3D printed? And what if the mould from which they are cast is silicon rather than natural rubber? Where's the honesty of natural materials then?

Edit: Regarding car panels, I'd wager any difference in the light quality between, say, a pressed metal wing and a moulded plastic bumper is more to do with the tolerances of production and the radii of creases. Good design and engineering will seek to minimise the differences between the two.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 02:06:28 PM
But those artificial materials don't form part of the object afterwards. It's not about a natural process, it's about ending up with an object that is naturally right and so communicates itself as real. I think it really must be a generational thing, we didn't only have art miniatures, we had indie / art music too, it's all gone so sold out & plastic, and the later generations don't see it, they really do think architecture is art and it's really not. Maybe we need a Brexit for GW, send them off to lego land and get some English art back.

edit - and 3D printing is not art, it's a way of usurping it, it shouldn't be anywhere near this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 22, 2016, 02:19:03 PM
Quote from: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 02:06:28 PM
edit - and 3D printing is not art, it's a way of usurping it, it shouldn't be anywhere near this.

Oh boy we just closed that can of worms on the "make something contest" page.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on December 22, 2016, 02:24:25 PM
It would be very interesting to see the surface difference between white metal and plastic under a powerful microscope.  I am sure there would be a difference but how well that would translate after three or more coats of paint is an interesting question.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 02:24:42 PM
Well a spade is a spade, people who can sculpt miniatures are gifted artists, what they can do deserves infinitely more respect than what a miniature knitting machine can do. And it's not just an academic issue, it's practical too because when a human sculpts something, the fact it might be slightly imperfect / characterful in a certain way because of it gives the thing itself real life, brings out the human in the subject, perfection like 3d printing seeks to achieve is wholly artificial.

re the light reflecting properties of lead v plastic, that plastic always looks artificial & low quality and that light travels into (natural material) objects quite a lot before coming back so that natural material has a natural / merged with reality real look unlike unnatural materials like plastic, even through many of layers of paint, they're just established facts and reality, and are evident for anyone to see. Just go compare the panel look on a Scimitar or TVR to any metal car, no amount of money or paint processes can make plastic look like it isn't plastic, if it was possible Companies like that would have done it and made tons more money (by selling more, because plastic looking things are low quality). Anyway it's not worth arguing, I only came on thread to ask about the rules then got sidetracked when I saw those new Sisters of Battle plastic figures that I hadn't previously seen, and that seem to confirm that the metal (proper) Sister of Battle range is effectively ended (which is why it got my attention so much as that's obviously disappointing for someone who has the metal SoB figures).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 22, 2016, 02:30:21 PM
While I would like to make a couple of counter-arguments, I think we might be better of discussing this in a separate topic in the future. This general GW topic was created because the discussions on other subjects often got "polluted" by banter and discussion about GW. It would be somewhat ironic if this topic then were to suffer from the same "pollution" by the big CAD 3d discussion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 22, 2016, 02:34:02 PM
Quote from: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 02:06:28 PM
But those artificial materials don't form part of the object afterwards. It's not about a natural process, it's about ending up with an object that is naturally right and so communicates itself as real. I think it really must be a generational thing, we didn't only have art miniatures, we had indie / art music too, it's all gone so sold out & plastic, and the later generations don't see it, they really do think architecture is art and it's really not. Maybe we need a Brexit for GW, send them off to lego land and get some English art back.

edit - and 3D printing is not art, it's a way of usurping it, it shouldn't be anywhere near this.

But I thought Arts and Crafts was all about the process - there is not separation between process and final item.

Also, a spade is a spade but the rest is entirely subjective. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on December 22, 2016, 02:34:45 PM
We're in danger of veering off into "what is art?"  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 22, 2016, 02:43:47 PM
Quote from: jon_1066 on December 22, 2016, 02:24:25 PM
It would be very interesting to see the surface difference between white metal and plastic under a powerful microscope.  I am sure there would be a difference but how well that would translate after three or more coats of paint is an interesting question.



Oh man, that brings me back to my metallurgy lessons. Cooling speed and temperature also changes the properties of many metals, if you let gold cool very slowly it will start to form crystal structures that are shaped like the original elder sign.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 03:05:07 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on December 22, 2016, 02:34:02 PM
But I thought Arts and Crafts was all about the process - there is not separation between process and final item.

Also, a spade is a spade but the rest is entirely subjective. lol

:-) That it's hand made and a natural thing, not that the process uses not nice / not natural materials. Look at William Blake and his acid etching, acid couldn't be less Arts and Crafts style / organically nice but the output is the epitome of it and was a massive influence in what came subsequently. Similar stuff with others using mercury to make gold stick to things. In art it's about what you end up, the object itself.

Anyway things to do, Happy Christmas :-)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 22, 2016, 03:08:00 PM
To you too. It has been an interesting digression.

And while I would never wish to go back to sculpting tiny figures with a pin (I feel much more enjoyment and creativity in digital) I did just lose half an hours work due to a brief power cut.

Swings and roundabouts. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on December 22, 2016, 03:55:07 PM
This is starting to remind me of the analog vs digital conflict in music production.... vinyl vs cds... etc....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 04:04:32 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on December 22, 2016, 03:08:00 PM
To you too. It has been an interesting digression.

And while I would never wish to go back to sculpting tiny figures with a pin (I feel much more enjoyment and creativity in digital) I did just lose half an hours work due to a brief power cut.

Swings and roundabouts. lol

oh wow I have your killer Hong Kong bot lady things on my list to get (which is quite a long list and will take a long time), I wondered if they might be digital but as robots they really work, are a brilliant design & in metal proper quality :-) And these (that unless I'm mistaken think are also yours) are some of my favourite miniatures and top of my list to get.

(http://otherworldminiatures.co.uk/figures/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/DryadNymphSylphPaint2-350x350.jpg)

edit - I know I'm not on my own with this plastic issue, everyone around my generation I knew dropped GW as trash quality childish toys when the plastic started to appear (it really was a step back into 70's trash), but maybe I have it even worse because I have a certain type (there are various very different ones, mine is ok) of ADHD traits which can seem a tiny bit Asperger, I can feel things I'm looking at in all my senses, maybe why I originally got so hooked on the lead minis so instantly & early, they just ring true, they capture and hold reality while it just slides off plastic. And I don't think it makes me an exceptional case so something they can afford to ignore commercially, rather I'm just much more aware of & saying instinctive truths others aren't so conscious off but are still affected & steered by.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on December 22, 2016, 04:36:41 PM
Well, to each his own. I don't like plastic as a medium to cast miniatures in parts on sprue, but as long as they are boardgame miniatures ( the bigger CMON stuff, some of the larget Myth and Bones figures ) it's perfectly fine with me. Digisculpting I also don't like, since it's nigh impossible tio get the character and natural flows of live things into a 2D drawing which artificially transfers into a 3D print. I have quite a few of those and no, the finer detail like hair is problematic, the curving in cloaks and robes too often looks way off, top detail isn't always sharp so no, when given a choice I prefer hand-made and hand-cast metals and am willing to pay for that aswell  :).

But back on topic, I must say the designs of some of the GW releases is pretty awesome. Won't buy them, though, since I don't like plastic model kits being used as gaming miniatures, but als long as GW keeps on re-releasing older favourites in metal I'll remain a loyal customer of theirs...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 05:18:09 PM
Totally agree with all of that (though don't have enough experience of digi-casts to know in detail, some figures just stand out as having an artificial / machine look to them). Totally agree some of GW's figures are superb, those new SoB seraphim look great (though the sculpt is obviously for plastic and the face is very much like a toy doll / Disney because of it, would be an instant head swap), but it's not happening because it's plastic only that they couldn't pay me to want, which is why it's so frustrating, especially as this now seems to be it, what Citadel figures there are already available is all there'll ever be.

But to (try to) leave the thread totally on topic, yes it's great they keep reissuing old leads, there's some 1990's Inquisition people gone on their site for sale again (listed in Internet only offers) that you'd be paying much more for on ebay to get old ones. Although people are still buying much higher on ebay for leads that WG are selling new on their site, because a load of people assume they only do plastic now and so don't go near them, it has negtively defined their brand & undermined their reach). And reasonably so, there's no prospect of new metals to keep checking them for, and most of the old figures they bring back are only offered in resin rather than metal which is of zero use (imo resin is great for occasional special compact figures that won't warp for paint & display, but it's wrong for gaming. I don't get why WG think 'collectors' wouldn't want to game / interact with their collections to be content with paint and display resin, it's not like paint & display was at the core of this hobby & the reason for GW's success, Golden Demon etc rode off the back off it and came later, we were buying masses of figures long time before any decent painted ones started to turn up, you only have to look at early White Dwarfs to see this hobby wasn't about paint & display for a long time). They won't condition adults to fit in with them, especially my generation who are the ones coming back to the hobby throwing the money about on ebay for old leads, cuz they're Gen X and can't be commercially conditioned (or rather they already were as children but in an extremely negative / cynical way, precisely the thing that WG originally benefited from as my generation flooded away from 1970's plastic trash for kids to Citadel's quality grown up leads). WG will just not get their money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Queeg on December 22, 2016, 07:06:23 PM
Being watching this discussion, very interesting . . .

So it's odd but being same generation I don't have the same views at all, but then I'm only 50 and so probably can't be considered a true adult. My sci-fi gaming started with Citadel back when the first figures and magazine were roleplaying orientated. Apart from playing the original Rogue Trader I've always used their figures with other rules (although own several editions of core rules and codex's) and have always been more interested in the look and conversion/setting possibilities of their stuff.

However the same as many older player/hobbyists I pretty much abandoned GW 8-10 years ago. My reasons were insane pricing/quality/value compared to other ranges and when they finally chucked out the support (figures and games) for specialty games Spacehulk/Mordhiem/Necromundia, all of where we were playing.  At the time there was a general decline in their sculpting quality too, they were dumbing down their stuff, in their "skull" phase and basically apart from a few character figs a lot of the ranges became bland to bad.

Now (curse them), and despite not being interested in their "core" systems of Sigmar and 40K, some of their new releases are getting really eye catching and tempting, whether metal or plastic. For me though I do prefer good quality plastics (sharp and detailed) as I like to convert stuff. The RTB beakies were a god send when they first came out and I quickly and easily made my own prone, kneeling and running poses, replacing the stand and shite ... er deliver pose.

On metals vrs plastics, for me the material is irrelevant if I like the figure, if the poses and detail are there it will get my interest. For the actual tabletop player base plastics are simply the way to go, ticking the ease of assembly and painting boxes. The cursed filing, assembly/pinning, painting and transport issues being the bane of metals in general. And some of their metals were rough, no question. Even on high end character figures, excessive flash, mould shift and soft detail could be equally present while others being sharp and close to perfection.

What plastic doesn't do however is add to the perceived value of the pure "collector". I can easily see the CMON crowd not liking a wholesale change to plastic whatever the quality as it's a bit harder to hawk a $300 paint job on something with no weight. And army resale value is also vastly lower, but then that's good for GWs business model as they need front end sales. They get no margin or royalty from collectors or "rare" resellers. The real reason GW kept metals though was for low volume figures (command and specialty) and low sale ranges, not to create any "art" value, it just wasn't economic to cut high cost steel moulds for that stuff. Now a lot of mould cutting is more accurate/automated and that has drastically reduced some of the cost of making plastics not to mention styrene resin is vastly cheaper than white metal compounds. BTW white metal isn't a "natural" substance, it's a man made alloy (and usually contains some pretty toxic stuff to make it workable) just like plastic.     

All said and done probably the main difference is I'm not a collector looking to make money from the metal/art. If I like a range for some tabletop use or an individual figure for the display cabinet I'll get it, no matter what it's made from. And 3D mastering has come a long way so I equally consider those now too, check out figures form Reedoak or Assault Models for what is possible. Early 3D was very average but was largely programme and experience limited. The lastest stuff is capable of doing things equal or better to a 3-up sculptor, but exactly as in traditional sculpting, the final result comes down to the experience, visualisation talent, skill and equipment of the digital sculptor.

Overall I'm now slightly impressed with GWs latest direction .... haven't forgotten their nefarious past though :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Keith on December 22, 2016, 07:15:18 PM
All of that ...  :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 08:21:57 PM
There is definitely a generational factor involved, I know from my database marketing career that it's an established thing and something to work with. I'm 46 and probably at the sharp end of my group, when our generation came of age from 87ish there was suddenly a different more cynical independent popular culture vibe than only a few years earlier. And the next generation (Y, apparently) weren't long behind and were even worse (they had the Tango ads made for them, on the basis they were so cynical they'd reject any product that tried to sell itself as false so they just acted daft trying to get name recognition). (It was a culture bubble that can be seen in lots of things that starts much earlier with a peak in the 60's then receding, but takes some step changes up through late 80's early 90's before it ends around end of 20th Cent with everything very placid / accepting again, because by then product quality had improved enough not to wreck relationships with kids and marketing / organisations had got sophisticated enough to communicate & condition effectively.

And as well there was / is a fundamental difference in people in the hobby, some were more interested in the games and scenarios and saw the miniatures as tools and / or opportunities, others driven by the miniatures and everything else was the tool / opportunity / vehicle for them. And that might be because or as well as, another fundamental difference in people where some are architects and others are artists (evident in microcosm in early Pink Floyd between art school Barrett and architect school the rest of them, and their respective audiences).

It's great some people are happy with GW being entirely plastic and no new metal, but it is only some people not the whole market, it's undeniably going to lose them interest / reach, integrity (it is them divorcing themselves from their heritage), sales, and so money just as things are, but potentially it will be on an increasingly significant basis (in relation to their market share) as my generation with my kind of attitude drift back to the hobby through middle age & retirement and who'll want better than plastic, who'll want the real thing in metal rather than a plastic model of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 22, 2016, 08:48:33 PM
I don't mind metal or plastic, or certain resins for that matter. The material doesn't seem to produce different results as far as painting goes, unless I'm missing something. The quality of the sculpt and the production value is my primary concern. But then again I have been said to persevere and 'polish turds' here and there too so I may not have good taste :)

'Finecast'... bad experiences. Mantic 'Restic'... very bad experiences.

I'm not quite sure why GW didn't go with metal or plastic on that limited releases Canonness though. I feel like anyone with sense (in before 'yes, but we're talking about GW' ;) ) would know that it would be a best seller and would need to be made out of something suitable for volume.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Queeg on December 22, 2016, 09:01:57 PM
Yup, definitely can see where you're coming from and agree with some things.

A couple not so much, the pigeonholing/generation thing not at all. Been in this industry, gaming and gaming forums for a looooong time (as I 'm sure you have) and maybe it's the groups I lean to, but most people that are either gaming friends or I know through the scene and who are most vehemently against plastics are Napoleonic or Horse n Musket players (savage generalisation I know and I do apologise but locally that's definitely the case).  Most of the others who play a bit of everything seem less wedded to metal vrs plastics, the much cheaper price and improved quality finally winning most over. And most of the "population group" I'm talking about are our generation, which makes up about 75% of most players, clubs and modellers here in NZ.

As to GW losing business I'd have to say most of the people you're referring to have already left and so will have little impact. GW actually seem to be turning the corner (well peeking around it) and I'd say they'll pick up much more from the people who left to play Bolt Action and a tons of other game systems that filled the GW void who might return, if only to buy some minis. The specialist games forums certainly seem buzzed with Blood Bowl and potentially Necromundia returning in some form.

The good thing is there's plenty of minis around so each to his own !!!

cheers
Brent
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on December 22, 2016, 10:08:28 PM
Agreed, Queeg summed up my feelings on the subject very well. I love the heft and feel of a metal miniature, but the products GW has put out in the last year or two have generally been spectacular in sculpting and execution. I am no fan of the sigmarines or the khorne stuff... but that is more preference than anything. Apart from disliking the style, I can't really find any technical fault in the figures themselves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 22, 2016, 11:16:13 PM
I've always been strongly drawn to horse & musket and Napoleonic too, though don't mind that in plastic if it's about large groups of figures and the colour, it links to a history that is real and the realness of that history takes over from the artificial modern plastic. So I had loads of Esci for fun gaming (because of the cost & ease & didn't mind), but I do prefer metal, if I'm doing history things seriously (or any fantasy / sci-fi at all because the subject doesn't have enough realness on it's own) and / or am bothered about individual characters they would have to be metal.

I don't mean to pigeon hole but it is a factor in the UK at least, and it's been weirdly in hand with other cultural evolution's (bouncing back & forth with America) so stuff knitted together to make significant things happen, altogether it created the market that WG exploited in order to explode in the 80's. Re GW have already lost those who'd care, these things cycle, apart from the culture thing I guess it's bound to be the case that a lot quit in late teens when real life demands take over, but will be heading back as those demands relax as they approach middle age+, GW are mad for removing themselves from their original market (quality lead miniatures that were works of art) and so from those returning people from the first generations and from their money. But maybe they see them and assume they can manipulate them back on GW's terms - like the Canoness is resin only (and in super excellent Oldhammer art style) to try and force people to buy resin, on the back of them just reissuing the SoB in metal, having pulled metal people back they're trying to convert first to resin by artificially limiting, then next to plastic with irresistibly pretty new plastic Seraphim (continue their spending and re-establish their habit but on WG plastic terms, classic converting). If so then there's a problem WG don't seem to get that most of my gen will, in plastic they're only toy models of irresistibly pretty Seraphim not the real thing, if I wanted pretty plastic models I'd be buying this kind of stuff instead:

(http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/upEAAOSwo4pYJ425/s-l225.jpg)

They won't convert most of those returning 80's & early 90's people into GW's new plastic world, they'll convert GW out of those potential customers world permanently. And yes the best thing is the other lead miniature manufacturers, I'm well into some of those they are excellent, but they can't make me new Sisters of Battle lead figures and Citadel are my oldest friend in this (even if I've been away for years), it's sad to see them resigning themselves to a plastic loony bin :-) That's definitely the end of my contribution to this thread, I'm glad some people like the plastic, I just think considering what it was, 'Citadel' deserves to be much more, which is reasonable enough.

edit - btw to clarify, I realise Citadel metals may not have contained actual lead for a long time as there are alternate alloys, although for all I know they still do. The point is they're metal which is quality, makes them the real thing rather than just cheap models of themselves and hopefully they'll paint same as old ones did. I will never get why WG would think people would be content with plastic models of their figures rather than their actual figures, it's such a broken, cheap, and without value concept. And they really think people would buy resin, to collect / celebrate other peoples lead miniatures that they're not allowed. It really is ridiculous in the most literal sense, it is so false.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on December 23, 2016, 12:38:02 PM
Well, what me got into the hobby - way back around 89/90 - were the massive amount of  figurines om display at a friends' house and later at a games shop. And the good thing was, whatever I saw on display looked the same - but  unpainted, of course - as what I saw in the blister packs/sacks/boxes on the walls and shelves. So after I got over the initial 3.99 pounds / 18 gulden-shellshock for 4 models on foot or 2 mounted ones I started buying and never looked back. It was only a bit later I started gaming on a regular base.
But, if today I would walk into a GW for the first time as the 18-year old lad I was back then, saw the models on display, asked the manager to see them and got a box of sprues - never mind the inflated pricing, I'd be used to that because of the current day price level of toys and games and apps etc. - I'd thank him in the nicest possible way and would walk out of the store never to return.
I see what you ( Queeg ) can do with plastic and I admire it greatly, but plastic model building is not my thing, I can do it, I did it but I don't really like it. As for resale value, I don't care. It's a hobby and hobbies cost money. Some people travel, go to bars or breed parrots, I collect a.o. toy soldiers.
But as said before, to each his own, plastic does have it's merits, I do have lots of 3rd edition Skeletons and 4th edition Goblins painted up and used them with great pleasure but - besides they were eiher single part figures or easily to assemble with great results - and I really enjoy lokking what skilled people can do with them but again, it's not for me. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on December 23, 2016, 12:55:35 PM
They can do beautiful things with plastic nowadays. Just take a look at Kingdom Death's plastic. Extremely high detail and IMO on par with the resins. Here is an example:
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic2481518_md.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: N.C.S.E on December 23, 2016, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on December 23, 2016, 12:38:02 PM

But, if today I would walk into a GW for the first time as the 18-year old lad I was back then, saw the models on display, asked the manager to see them and got a box of sprues - never mind the inflated pricing, I'd be used to that because of the current day price level of toys and games and apps etc. - I'd thank him in the nicest possible way and would walk out of the store never to return.


Well... these days toys and apps and games are incredibly cheap (compared to your models). With miniatures you need a ton of infrastructure (paints, glue, friends who either have kit already or are willing to learn (tall orders on both counts, particularly if your 18 year old self hasn't player)), as well as to understand that to get to the level of the works of art and awesome set ups we see online (and in GW stores, one of their great strengths) takes a lot of time and hard work.

By contrast, toys are generally set up in 5 minutes (if that) and the most expensive part of apps/computer games is the computer to play it on, which will generally available through parents/relatives (either as gifts or around the house), once that outlay is out of the way, computer games are often free (even quality ones) and you can begin playing once the download is finished (i.e. no longer than a few hours). And they provide instant gratification and loads of explosions.

Looked at like that, wargaming has some stiff competition.

On the other hand, no computer game can possibly compete with a beautifully done set up (like we see regularly on this forum). And the feel of working with physical things, as well as being free to make up your rules and scenarios without a degree in computer science (a big deal for a pretty computer illiterate guy like me) gives wargaming a few advantages despite everything.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 23, 2016, 06:39:21 PM
I think that once quality plastics started to appear (say what you will about art, or charm, or character, the quality is fantastic now days) it changed the expectation of the consumers as well.  With games like Warhammer 40K almost entirely plastic the expectation is that you can buy some kits and kit-bash until you pass out.  I'm on a bunch of Warhammer forums, despite not playing the current generation, and short of a few grognards like myself --- the response from their consumers is pretty overwhelmingly positive on the designs and model quality.  When a new kit comes out, it's not "oh that's nice", it's now "oh, I could make..." etc.

Once you set this kind of expectation (not to mention GW has become smarter and releases a lot of dual or triple kits --- allowing you build one of several units from a box or sprue) mono-pose anything will be looked down upon.  Even some of the fantastic press-kit pieces they produce are occasionally slammed for being just that...mono-pose.

I'll be honest, I don't think there is as large a market out there for metals from GW gamers as some folks have stated here.  A market?  Sure.  Enough to warrant running metals alongside plastics?  I doubt it.  Lots of people leave GW and don't return...lots return.  My gaming group numbers around 14 people, all of whom used to play WHFB or WH40K or other GW games - including a store manager and a couple of ex-employees of GW.  None of us play GW products at the moment.  Not a single one of us left because they went to plastic kits.  We left because GW become over-priced and they don't design very good games.

If 40-55 year olds don't find GW offerings attractive, I'm not surprised.  Simply put, you're not the target audience.  Is this a good business decision?  Who knows.  GW's had falling profits for several years now (not going bankrupt, but they're no longer in ascendancy).  We'll see how the next few years go.

If, like me, you like old models?  Buy them up on eBay.  There are plenty.  I've collected and built a comically large 6300+ points army of 2nd edition Eldar just this year.  All metal except vehicles.  No big deal.  I don't think GW owes me anything in metal, nor do I care that their rules became such crap that I left.  I collect and play what I like.  If they earn my business, good on them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on December 24, 2016, 01:02:56 AM
Speaking of the new Canoness, mine was flawlessly resin cast, on par with resin miniatures I got from Hasslefree over the years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 24, 2016, 01:27:53 AM
Quote from: N.C.S.E on December 23, 2016, 03:58:06 PM
Well... these days toys and apps and games are incredibly cheap (compared to your models). With miniatures you need a ton of infrastructure (paints, glue, friends who either have kit already or are willing to learn (tall orders on both counts, particularly if your 18 year old self hasn't player)), as well as to understand that to get to the level of the works of art and awesome set ups we see online (and in GW stores, one of their great strengths) takes a lot of time and hard work.

By contrast, toys are generally set up in 5 minutes (if that) and the most expensive part of apps/computer games is the computer to play it on, which will generally available through parents/relatives (either as gifts or around the house), once that outlay is out of the way, computer games are often free (even quality ones) and you can begin playing once the download is finished (i.e. no longer than a few hours). And they provide instant gratification and loads of explosions.

Looked at like that, wargaming has some stiff competition.

On the other hand, no computer game can possibly compete with a beautifully done set up (like we see regularly on this forum). And the feel of working with physical things, as well as being free to make up your rules and scenarios without a degree in computer science (a big deal for a pretty computer illiterate guy like me) gives wargaming a few advantages despite everything.

Re PC games, I came back to miniatures after spending many years gaming Total War & then WOT's MMO (where the average EU age is apparently 30+). It's completely empty of real satisfaction and genuine meaningful social interaction / contact, you exchange time and often a lot of money to end up with effectively nothing at all, it's empty and all cost. Games like that are full of people around my age looking for a hobby and slowly realising they're not finding it there, the amount of dissatisfaction on forums is pretty big as the games dumb themselves down for the masses and sell themselves out into pay-to-win, if their whales (big regular spenders) aren't leaving they're spending less or converting down to free to play, people like WG are quite desperately trying to find new cash cows before their existing ones die of being sold out & exhaustion, like WG have just gone into partnership with Total War over the development of their Rome MMO Arena (but in UK at least it's effectively the same market as WOT's and it's already exhausted with them). I think it's highly likely many like me will want something more real & will end up back in miniatures. It's refined, adult and a square deal you're in control of, PC gaming is time spent with a vampire. Can't comment on the younger ones. though it is obviously stiff competition for traditional gaming, but again ultimately the lack of anything real to show for what they've put in is bound to catch up with them. In fact it does - you could probably find it on you-tube, some young gamer made a film about PC gaming and how addictive, empty & destructive it is (was a WoWarcaft player), won some big award and is quite famous in those circles.

Re art, the pictures of all GW's beautiful (plastic) set ups, beautiful / attractive things are not necessarily art (a con people like Simon Cowell try and pull, referring to their entertainers as artists). Though that's not to say entertainers, or in this case decorators or maybe architects, aren't hugely talented / gifted, they clearly are, but it's a different thing to art, which is about truth, and working on something plastic so it doesn't look plastic isn't creating / finding truth. An honest lead miniature is a true thing, it has the gravity & realness to make representations of livings things (and communicate the truth of them) and make fantasy & sci-fi more true than plastic ever can, and resin isn't a gaming alternative.

Re plastics, it's just a completely different hobby (and not one that I or anyone I've ever known was ever interested in), it's model making, and plastic models are not miniatures anymore than serious plastic model kit 1/72 scale soldiers or for that matter Airfix kits in the 1970's were miniatures. It is the case if GW stop doing metal, they'll simply no longer be a miniature manufacturer and will have vacated the miniature market (they can pretend otherwise but it is an actively false pretence, in order to maintain perceived value and sales). That's the straight of it without any comment on whether they should or not, though to me it looks like heritage, credibility, and ultimately brand suicide, it's about much more than just how much they're selling right now or can expect to in the near to middle future.

Re old miniatures, I've got an eldar army too though not bought on ebay just abandoned for 25 years in a cupboard, with a untouched boxed set of Harlequins and a load of Scorpions (the things that looked like Predators) and stuff but it's just too much fantasy, always was. It was the very gothic and apparently more tongue in cheek SoB that really worked for me (they even had metal backpacks), but the boss is resin and the future is plastic, gothic is categorically not plastic, it's as bad as X-Factor so that's that. And resin swords warp, there's been a pro-painted resin Canoness for sale on ebay and you can see there's a slight bend in the sword, even for all that money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 24, 2016, 04:20:38 AM
Is there an impact whether you wargame with models or miniatures?

I'll be honest, I have to disagree with the majority of your points/opinions - but that's the joy of communication, we're all entitled to what we believe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Keith on December 24, 2016, 09:02:50 AM
I just spent 10 minutes browsing Putty and Paint. Easily some of the best miniature work ever seen, and a healthy split of plastic and metal. Then spent another 10 minutes on Iron Sleet ... certainly one of the more creative corners of the 40k world and almost exclusively plastic. Has to be really. It's craft that goes back to Paine and Horan (Historex etc.) crossed with madness of John Blanche. Perfect! Wrapped my little tour with a trip to David Soapers blog - earned one of the first Slayer Swords back in the day and still winning them in unseemly numbers after a break from the hobby. Dave's work is almost as close as this craft gets to art and he copes admirably with plastic.

Still love metal, happy to cut plastic. Actually don't draw a distinction but each to their own.

Be good to break this discussion out into a separate thread perhaps?




Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 24, 2016, 09:34:06 AM
There is only one true art form:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_painting

Everything else is just pale imitation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 24, 2016, 09:55:03 AM
Quote from: Keith on December 24, 2016, 09:02:50 AM
Be good to break this discussion out into a separate thread perhaps?


An "it's not what it used to be 25+ years ago" thread?  ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on December 24, 2016, 09:57:47 AM
I remember many years back working for GW when the 'do everything in plastic' decision came down, the central cause was worry over competition. Rackham, Privateer Press, and a whole host of smaller start-ups were offering lovely metal minis, and market share was eroding. Not much, but enough to be a worry for the future.

So the plan was to have customers only buying plastic kits, so they'd only be familiar with plastic kits, and would regard metal minis from other companies as something weird and difficult to use, so would stay faithful to GW. It would also put pressure on the other manufacturers to try and get into plastics, requiring massive investment that they would struggle to achieve. Of course, it ended up taking too long, so we got Finecast as a stop-gap. But it was about driving the market into thinking 'miniatures=plastic'.

The long-term affects are still with us too - if you really want to compete now, you need plastics. Warlord, Steamforged and
Hawk are all using plastic starter sets now. Simply because GW has made it so that's how the market buys new games. Which obviously makes it difficult for us tiny wargames businesses to compete. The number of smaller ranges/games being bought out by the likes of Warlord, Element, and Troll Trader is testament to that.

Must be nice to be GW. They make a decision, and it really does change the market.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 24, 2016, 10:46:07 AM
Quote from: Keith on December 24, 2016, 09:02:50 AM
I just spent 10 minutes browsing Putty and Paint. Easily some of the best miniature work ever seen, and a healthy split of plastic and metal. Then spent another 10 minutes on Iron Sleet ... certainly one of the more creative corners of the 40k world and almost exclusively plastic. Has to be really. It's craft that goes back to Paine and Horan (Historex etc.) crossed with madness of John Blanche. Perfect! Wrapped my little tour with a trip to David Soapers blog - earned one of the first Slayer Swords back in the day and still winning them in unseemly numbers after a break from the hobby. Dave's work is almost as close as this craft gets to art and he copes admirably with plastic.

Still love metal, happy to cut plastic. Actually don't draw a distinction but each to their own.

Be good to break this discussion out into a separate thread perhaps?






Thanks Keith, something nice to look at  :)

I had not looked at PuttyandPaint in an absolute age - much appreciate the reminder
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 24, 2016, 11:50:09 AM
Quote from: Lovejoy on December 24, 2016, 09:57:47 AM
I remember many years back working for GW when the 'do everything in plastic' decision came down, the central cause was worry over competition. Rackham, Privateer Press, and a whole host of smaller start-ups were offering lovely metal minis, and market share was eroding. Not much, but enough to be a worry for the future.

So the plan was to have customers only buying plastic kits, so they'd only be familiar with plastic kits, and would regard metal minis from other companies as something weird and difficult to use, so would stay faithful to GW. It would also put pressure on the other manufacturers to try and get into plastics, requiring massive investment that they would struggle to achieve. Of course, it ended up taking too long, so we got Finecast as a stop-gap. But it was about driving the market into thinking 'miniatures=plastic'.

The long-term affects are still with us too - if you really want to compete now, you need plastics. Warlord, Steamforged and
Hawk are all using plastic starter sets now. Simply because GW has made it so that's how the market buys new games. Which obviously makes it difficult for us tiny wargames businesses to compete. The number of smaller ranges/games being bought out by the likes of Warlord, Element, and Troll Trader is testament to that.

Must be nice to be GW. They make a decision, and it really does change the market.


I'm not going to continue with it so it doesn't need another thread, but just regarding the marketing / brand management side that I do definitely know about, one of the biggest mistakes Companies make in marketing / understanding their market is the self fulfilling prophecy, and it's been made much worse by databases and analysis (tracking trend, identifying targets / opportunities, and predicting) that modern marketeers rely on but that literally can't think outside the box. They're applauded for how much money they prove to make from homing in on & optimising opportunities while completely blind to all the other opportunities they're not seeing and money they're not making. And markets change, people in them cycle out then back in again (meaning databases and architect type marketeers can't really predict long term, they don't have the length of data to model it or the instinct to feel it), GW are positioning themselves in a way that they will be out of any potential loop like that, very few that have previously cycled out due to middle-life demands & constraints (when GW did metal) will come back to them for plastic (even though sentimentality will make them want to), they'll be frustrated, go elsewhere and reduce GW's market share, and potentially harm their brand. Because there's a very real danger for GW that those 80's people, their original customers who made them, effectively their peers with as much right to say what is and isn't gaming & miniatures as GW have, conclude very badly about them & their plastic, they could be influential opinion formers and turn GW's cheap false constructed ground into mud. And that's certainly where I am, I'm past being disappointed, having seen the Immolater plastic gunner that looks like the one out of my brothers Airfix Lancaster kit when I was 7, I just think GW's direction and new product is laughably cheap & childish, it's like being back in the 1970's. People will help GW dress that up as something else but it's Emperor's clothes.

Another thing, I don't get populations that want things their way at the exclusion of other ways, there's no real problem at all GW doing metal alongside plastic, only upsides (certainly for their brand integrity and image of quality). If they're that confident the new generations do want plastic, that strategy is in the bag, they don't have to extend it to the point of expecting adults to want kids things, those that are happy with plastic don't benefit because their hobby world will be smaller with less depth & dimensions for no metal / metal people, everyone will be the poorer.

edit - I guess like everyone, I formed my principles when I was young, I was effectively educated by Ian Livingstone, Bryan Ansell etc as to what gaming and miniatures were about. Nothing will shift me from that original source opinion. And the first plastics Citadel did, a rubbery giant / troll and then plastic Orcs were ok because they were just meant to augment, give volume by being cost effective which was fine. Full on plastic is GW changing their story in a way that conflicts with what they used to say and educated a generation to believe (or exploited the fact they already believed it from their bad experience with 1970's toys), that is an issue that is likely to come back and bite them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 24, 2016, 12:43:55 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on December 24, 2016, 09:34:06 AM
There is only one true art form:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_painting

Everything else is just pale imitation.

I expect there were cavemen carving their little Venus figurines out of stone who poo-pooed their contemporaries who worked in bone...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 24, 2016, 12:46:34 PM
It's probably not worth pointing out that the decade old plastic immolator is hardly representative of modern GW quality.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 24, 2016, 01:07:21 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on December 24, 2016, 12:46:34 PM
It's probably not worth pointing out that the decade old plastic immolator is hardly representative of modern GW quality.

Indeed - I used to have to putty, pin and superglue many of the big GW metal models for the neighbours' kids because they were horrific to build... and the staff in the local GW could often be seen doing the same for an anxious parent on a Saturday morning.

I like metal, and I like one-piece models, but plastic is in many ways a better material for many models, especially big ones.  The plastic Mordor troll was a godsend after the metal one with the massive pins and gap filling you had to put into the model.  And mixed metal-and-plastic kids were even worse.  When I was 8, I was building Airfix tanks more complicated and fiddly than all but the biggest and newest GW models, and GW starter sets have been reduced-part and snap-fit for at least a decade.

Ach, the hobby is big enough for all of us to get what we want out of it these days, so more power to all your projects chaps and chapettes!

I certainly miss the days when GW's was the spiritual successor to Carry On films...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on December 24, 2016, 02:04:44 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on December 24, 2016, 12:46:34 PM
It's probably not worth pointing out that the decade old plastic immolator is hardly representative of modern GW quality.
Too right - you only have to look at things like the Space Hulk plastics to see they really know what they're doing now. Dynamic, detailed, and only two parts per model! Just so impressive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on December 24, 2016, 02:08:13 PM
@Momotaro

I have fond memories of metal as well; I learned most of my hobby skills by trial and error in the lead days (A soldering iron is not a sculpting tool :) ).  Like you I find that practical hindsight trumps nostalgia and I appreciate the variety of kits that are available and the new technologies that have evolved the medium.

I enjoyed the direction the thread had taken in the last bit (regarding "new" aesthetics and technologies) and wasn't having much luck articulating how I wanted to comment/ enframe my comment until I read your post and it gave me a moment of clarity.

CAD is just another tool.  It seems clinical or overwrought but there is as much potential there as there is working in a traditional manner.  I know a Copplestone sculpt because he was the artist not because he used a particular sculpting tool.  I think the CAD sculptors need to find their voices as artists.  New and unfamiliar tools don't do a job deftly; It just takes familiarity to use them well a sensibility to know when embellishments shouldn't be added to a figure simply because they can.

I enjoy the new plastics because conversions are child's play;  I can work with a speed and fluidity that won't interrupt my process.  The other quality I really enjoy is the weightless of models where I don't have to concern myself with engineering counterbalances on a base and other foolishness if I want a flying figure.  I still love metals as well.  I'm simply attracted to the work of any sculptor who captures my imagination.  I'm looking forward to the next few years as more CAD artists find their feet.  
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ulfhednar on December 24, 2016, 03:00:35 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on December 24, 2016, 12:46:34 PM
It's probably not worth pointing out that the decade old plastic immolator is hardly representative of modern GW quality.

The metal gunner & guns off the original immolator are far superior, and those plastic cherubs on the new one look so plastic they're like something you'd see outside a Casino in Las Vegas, or in Rhyl. If I was going bother I'd be getting the old immolator with metal parts (specifically the driver) off ebay (and probably pay more than twice as much as GW's current one), or just the metal parts on their own and apply them to the new immolator, but it's too much hassle considering it's too limited anyway with the top boss in resin only and future releases in plastic.

Re CAD yes it has huge potential and it's exciting what it might mean, but I suspect it may end up like digital effects have in TV & film where it's just being done because it's so easy and so without any real understanding of art involved, it's driving out the art & replacing it with entertainment. The last Hobbit films were a good example, so much over the top just for the sake of it and because it was easy, and in the hands of people without the artistic depth or eye to get it right. A lot like modern marketing, databases have put marketing into the hands of accountants / farmers rather than real marketeers / hunters and it's making everything so bland, samey and limited. Things like the new Battlestar Galatica's were awesome with their special effects, Caprica even managed a really decent story line and lots of atmosphere, but they don't get close to the art that's in the old B&W's like Night of the Demon, when it was just proper artists doing the best they could. It was hand forging, like Saxon's did, like Dwarves, Elves, and Citadel used to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on December 24, 2016, 03:08:45 PM
You make some good points, Ulfhednar, but don't pretend your opinions are facts backed up with hard data; they aren't. I'm sure there are is a demographic of people you could get into a graph who gave up on GW for the same reasons as you, but it doesn't really mean the way things are now are OBJECTIVELY wrong. There are some amazing plastic miniatures out there that people have done some great work with, and some hideous metal miniatures out there that those same fantastic painters couldn't even make look good. All this talk of "proper artists" and such just comes across as sheer snootiness, and it's grating. No offence.


Quote from: horridperson on December 24, 2016, 02:08:13 PM
I think the CAD sculptors need to find their voices as artists.  New and unfamiliar tools don't do a job deftly; It just takes familiarity to use them well a sensibility to know when embellishments shouldn't be added to a figure simply because they can.

I agree. I think the "this is clearly off a computer" look is slowly disappearing - Games Workshop are particularly getting very good at combining digital sculpting with characterful output.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 24, 2016, 03:37:17 PM
Quote from: Ulfhednar on December 24, 2016, 03:00:35 PM
The metal gunner & guns off the original immolator are far superior, and those plastic cherubs on the new one look so plastic they're like something you'd see outside a Casino in Las Vegas, or in Rhyl. If I was going bother I'd be getting the old immolator with metal parts (specifically the driver) off ebay (and probably pay more than twice as much as GW's current one), or just the metal parts on their own and apply them to the new immolator, but it's too much hassle considering it's too limited anyway with the top boss in resin only and future releases in plastic.

Yes. Yes they are inferior. But you've missed my point...

Edit: Also, it's not new for GW to replace something with an inferior product. They did it all through the 90s with metal figures replacing metal. 90s chaos warriors are dire.

They still do, too; in terms of composition, the new plastic Kharn and Eldrad are not as good as the originals (Jes Goodwin is a hard act to follow) though I'd argue the new Ahriman improves things due to fewer (or rather different) constraints on the sculptor.

The difference is that now, unless you have a moral objection to plastic figures, the inferiority is not due to the manufacturing process, as was the case with the plastic immolator. Which is old.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 24, 2016, 03:57:13 PM
Quote from: Ulfhednar on December 24, 2016, 03:00:35 PM
Re CAD yes it has huge potential and it's exciting what it might mean, but I suspect it may end up like digital effects have in TV & film where it's just being done because it's so easy and so without any real understanding of art involved

Francis Ford Coppola(?) has said that computer effects allow the director to become an artist to and build EXACTLY the shot he wants.  He's also said that overuse of CGI shows in the film.  But here's a video that shows how much compositing and FX go into even soap operas:

https://vimeo.com/19274597 (https://vimeo.com/19274597)

Point is it's not all superhero films and Transformers where the FX are almost impossibly fast to follow - used judiciously, you won't even notice.  You have to look hard to see how many blood effects have been replaced by CGI these days (cuts down the laundry bills), how many locations don't even exist, and look really closely to see that many of the clouds of dust kicked up by bullets in Black Hawk Down are the same CGI effect repeated.

Happens in minis too - GW had a phase where they did CAD fur as raised triangles and it didn't look right without some very clever painting.  A lot of the newest stuff though has a naturalness and dynamism that you'd struggle to do in metal.  And GW was doing the Too Many Skullz thing long before they moved to CAD ;)

And again I'll say - if you prefer metal, I can see why and more power to you, sir!  You'll have a fine collection to pass down the years.  But I do love plastic too.

Can't wait to see what you do with the upcoming Warlord Dredd line!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on December 24, 2016, 04:09:38 PM
Hmmm I'm also in the camp that I really don't enjoy plastic miniatures or even multi-part, I do own many thousands but they just ain't my first choice.

For me It comes down too the fact I really hate sticking together/prepping, now and again for conversions are fine but I much rather spend my time painting then dropping fiddly bits (Sometimes glue covered) on a cat hair laced carpet.

I also like the weight of metal so much so I've taken to basing all plastics needing round bases on 2p's :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 24, 2016, 04:13:03 PM
I filled the hollow belly of a placcy nurgle champ with miscast lady heads so he matched the weight to my metal nurgle warband. He's got about 8 or 9 heads inside him. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 24, 2016, 04:44:45 PM
I'm assembling some Infinity models (metals!!!) and wishing they were as easy and enjoyable to put together as the GW Stormcast Eternal (evil plastic!!!) I built the other day. I like metal models but sometimes they make me want to jab my scalpel in my neck and end it all in a tribute to Khorne.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on December 24, 2016, 04:46:52 PM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 24, 2016, 06:05:03 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on December 24, 2016, 04:13:03 PM
I filled the hollow belly of a placcy nurgle champ with miscast lady heads so he matched the weight to my metal nurgle warband. He's got about 8 or 9 heads inside him. :D

Greedy bugger!
That does seem rather apt, though.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on December 25, 2016, 02:46:53 PM
Well, tbh, I don't like my 28mm metals being multiparts too. Recently bought in on a Red Box Games kickstarter, and the wolves and men-at-arms, although beautifully sculpted, are a pain to assemble, so they still are in their respective baggies and I doubt if those MAA will ever get out of them again. Pinning tiny Leadfree metal bits is a disaster in my book, but again, to each his own.
I ordered the Finecast Canoness - not received her yet - just for old time sake, probably won't build her but I will continue to collect a small metal warband of SOB...
Will be interesting to see what the next couple of years will bring. More plastics, will their quality inprove, will digisculpting finally be as good as handschulpting, will GW go on with the plastic or will they still be re-releasing old favorites rather than having resin recasts sold all over the internet...
Left or right, I feel it's a great time to be a wargamer/collector now, with both the old an the new readily available, GW - as a market leader - sort of reanimated and reinvented themselves ( think about what would have happend to our hobby if they went south... ) , kickstarter/indiegogo als platforms to raise funds for creative designers/sculptors who lack the funds to start for themselves etc. etc.... Excellent  :).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on December 25, 2016, 07:27:18 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on December 25, 2016, 02:46:53 PM
Well, tbh, I don't like my 28mm metals being multiparts too.

Agreed - I've made sure all our Burrows & Badgers and Sensible Shoes minis are single piece casts for that reason. Especially with so much crossover from boardgamers these days, multi-part metals just seem like a bad idea to me... plus, I tried to build some Infinity models once, and I still have nightmares... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on December 25, 2016, 08:22:41 PM
Hehehe aye while those mentioned above do suck to put together it still beats sticking together plastic tanks from Battlefront/GF9 and Perry's DAK/Tommys..

My desk is full of both atm :( ;)

Oh it's a hard life hehe
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 26, 2016, 12:15:40 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on December 24, 2016, 04:44:45 PM
I'm assembling some Infinity models (metals!!!) and wishing they were as easy and enjoyable to put together as the GW Stormcast Eternal (evil plastic!!!) I built the other day. I like metal models but sometimes they make me want to jab my scalpel in my neck and end it all in a tribute to Khorne.

THIS^

I'm currently painting the new plastic Khorne Exalted Deathbringer. What an amazingly detailed miniature. A plastic sprue with 7 parts.

Started painting almost 45 years ago... PLASTIC 54mm Historex Napoleonics. So I'm not bothered by material.

Also walls of text go unread... at least from me. But hey, have at it if you want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 26, 2016, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on December 26, 2016, 12:15:40 PM
THIS^

I'm currently painting the new plastic Khorne Exalted Deathbringer. What an amazingly detailed miniature. A plastic sprue with 7 parts.

Started painting almost 45 years ago... PLASTIC 54mm Historex Napoleonics. So I'm not bothered by material.

Also walls of text go unread... at least from me. But hey, have at it if you want.

I know some people are put off by what seems like a large part count with modern GW plastics but they go together so easily and there's so little clean up needed that you barely notice the number of pieces. Like I mentioned, the Infinity models I've been dealing with come in five pieces which might be on par with a GW plastic model but the amount of clean up, pinning, gap filling and general anger makes for a very different experience. I think a lot of our negative opinions of plastics are perhaps based on experiences with models from 20 years ago rather than modern day plastics. Current day GW plastics make me want to build them.  :)

Any pics of your Deathbringer?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 26, 2016, 05:10:26 PM
I don't mind the GW plastics, and some are very, very nice. I think a lot of the bad rep they get stems from the late 1990s and early 2000s. In those early years, despite being marketed as such, the "multipose" figure kits weren't really that, especially if the figure wasn't wearing armour of sorts to cover the joints. Many of the figures only worked in a very limited pose spectrum, anatomically, or you would have to do a lot of conversion work to make them look decent, pose-wise.

Those newer figures which were designed with a more limited pose spectrum look much better once assembled.

I'm very strongly focused on metal figures for my "Old without the Hammer" fantasy collection, but mainly because of the nostalgic angle and their specific style, not because they are intrinsically better figures than more modern offerings.

Space Marines in particular have come a long way concerning the plastics. I've still got a huge lot of RT metal stuff to assemble and paint for a pseudonostalgia project, but I would choose the new plastics over those since they are rather sharp and much more "technological" than any metal Marine I used to own (and I've still got a lot of those).

And let's face it, metal jump pack Marines were the worst, and not in a good way like German sausage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 27, 2016, 03:49:46 PM
Games workshop are reprinting rogue trader for the January second open day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 27, 2016, 03:56:41 PM
Quote from: nic-e on December 27, 2016, 03:49:46 PM
Games workshop are reprinting rogue trader for the January second open day.

Where'd that come from?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on December 27, 2016, 04:01:16 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on December 26, 2016, 01:42:04 PM
Any pics of your Deathbringer?

Not finished yet.

And it will be hardly comparable to your wonderful painting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on December 27, 2016, 04:08:35 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on December 27, 2016, 03:56:41 PM
Where'd that come from?

https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2016/12/27/from-the-archives-warhammer-40000-rogue-trader/

(https://20889-presscdn-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/NYOpen-day-exclusive-rogue-trader.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 27, 2016, 04:14:07 PM
I wonder if it'll fall apart like the original hardbacks did? I could have been tempted by a decent binding but train fare is a killer and I'm not taking the day off.  :(  I'll just have to glue those pages back into my old copy.  ;)

It says it's scanned from an original but I'd be a little concerned if it turns out to be the same quality as the Index Apocrypha books.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 27, 2016, 04:21:41 PM
Yep, sadly a swing and a miss.

A) Scanning from an old book...doesn't instill much confidence (and we know it'd be too much effort to go back and re-master the old book)
B) Pointless limited release to be hawked on eBay for $400.

As much progress as GW has made recently the un-ending torrent of limited release items is pretty silly.  The good looking Eldar art of Jes Goodwin would have been something I'd have purchased, easily.  But not for the $150 it goes for on eBay since they only sold a few thousand of them.  A lot of products they're cutting their own profits by not producing a reasonable number.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on December 27, 2016, 04:31:18 PM
Edit for privacy.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 27, 2016, 04:35:33 PM
I rather like what GW are doing with all these nods to the past and old school fans. I don't mind the limited nature of these things either. It's a limited market at best. I do wish some of this stuff was available to order though. Of course Ebay will be flooded with this stuff after the event but that happens with everything.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 27, 2016, 04:37:10 PM
Quote from: Chico on December 27, 2016, 04:31:18 PM
According to Andy Hoare

''And having seen this in the flesh, I can say it's of much higher spec than the original, 1987 hardback! The paper stock is heavier too, so it's a really nice, thick book.''



If that's true I wish I could get a copy. I do like a nice hefty book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on December 27, 2016, 07:13:01 PM
"Old rope, get your old rope here......., just give us your money".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 27, 2016, 08:45:43 PM
So does this make my original copy more or less valuable o_o ??? o_o

I'm sure next on their to-do list is to reissue the 1st edition of Warhammer Fantasy :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 27, 2016, 09:06:29 PM
Quote from: zemjw on December 27, 2016, 08:45:43 PM
I'm sure next on their to-do list is to reissue the 1st edition of Warhammer Fantasy :D

Good idea!
They can start from 1st edition and then slowly release them all until they finally blow up the world!
And then start all over again....etc, etc, etc....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 27, 2016, 09:13:20 PM
Quote from: Mason on December 27, 2016, 09:06:29 PM
Good idea!
They can start from 1st edition and then slowly release them all until they finally blow up the world!
And then start all over again....etc, etc, etc....

Isn't that a bit like how the Mayans thought the world worked? Their calendar would run out and everything would start over again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 27, 2016, 10:01:54 PM
Quote from: zemjw on December 27, 2016, 08:45:43 PM
I'm sure next on their to-do list is to reissue the 1st edition of Warhammer Fantasy :D

They did that already back at the 30th anniversary of Warhammer.

When's the Realm of Chaos anniversary?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on December 27, 2016, 10:32:58 PM
Looking at that ad, it doesnt say it is limited to the open day, it says it is available first at the open day. So maybe it will be like spacehulk, limited to an unlimited number of rereleases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 27, 2016, 10:38:34 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on December 27, 2016, 10:32:58 PM
Looking at that ad, it doesnt say it is limited to the open day, it says it is available first at the open day. So maybe it will be like spacehulk, limited to an unlimited number of rereleases.


Quote
The first time you’ll be able to get your book and mug will be January 2nd, and you’ll only be able to get them in person, at Warhammer World, and at selected events around the world through 2017.


Might make it a little easier to get for some.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 28, 2016, 12:03:13 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on December 27, 2016, 10:01:54 PM
They did that already back at the 30th anniversary of Warhammer.

When's the Realm of Chaos anniversary?

That's what I;m interested in. I bought a copy of it from Ebay but it's a terrible copy. Half falling out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on December 28, 2016, 05:58:03 AM
Quote from: Chico on December 27, 2016, 04:08:35 PM
https://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2016/12/27/from-the-archives-warhammer-40000-rogue-trader/



So only available at Open Day, so fuck the rest of the world, and eBay scalpers will make sure it's the most insane item of the year.

Slow golf clap for another outstanding marketing decision by Games Workshop. Slow. Golf. Clap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 28, 2016, 06:49:24 AM
First available at Warhammer World - then at select events around the world in 2017...

Guess it depends how many they have left after the first event.

....

Quote from: YPU on December 27, 2016, 09:13:20 PM
Isn't that a bit like how the Mayans thought the world worked? Their calendar would run out and everything would start over again.

No,no,no Mayan calendar was about preventing the end of the world via blood sacrifices to nourish the gods, therefore preventing it for a bit longer,eg " in order to hold the world in its orbit and prevent it from falling into an abyss of nothingness".

Sort of blood for the gods ...

Anyway completely different idea.... ::)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on December 28, 2016, 03:56:10 PM
Sort of blood for the gods ...

M`mm, blood for the blood god

Sure I have heard that before o_o

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 28, 2016, 06:40:47 PM
Slaanesh tried "Nipples for the nipple god" but it never caught on in the same way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 28, 2016, 10:03:19 PM
 :D

Nurgle:  Farts for the Fart God!  For the authentic game-room smell!  Well mine anyway...
Tzeentch:  Jigsaws for the Puzzle God!
Slaanesh:  Your Mum for the Cock God!  Or am I thinking of Kingdom Death?

What a way to start page 400 of the thread...  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 29, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
So... anyone else get 70 emails from GW this morning telling them that Spire of Dawn is back in stock?  ;D

Spire of Dawn is back in stock, by the way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 29, 2016, 01:08:49 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on December 29, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
So... anyone else get 70 emails from GW this morning telling them that Spire of Dawn is back in stock?  ;D

Spire of Dawn is back in stock, by the way.


Not had any emails from GW today oddly enough. By the way, the Warhammer app that's supposed to keep me up to date with all things GW has only had Black Library and games and apps updates posted. Nothing about any other releases even though my settings are set to receive everything.

I wasn't too bothered with the Spire set but those elves have won me over so even for them alone it's a damn good deal. Looks like the AoS battleforce sets are mostly unavailable again. I was hoping the Sylvaneth would have gotten a restock like the Orruk and Stormcast ones but I guess they're done now. GW must have overstocked on Khorne sets though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 29, 2016, 02:20:53 PM
I already have the skaven from the set (they're brilliant), or I'd split a box with you.  I'd be in it for the elves too.

Still, you could flog the skaven and offset some of the cost - makes those elves a bargain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 29, 2016, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on December 29, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
So... anyone else get 70 emails from GW this morning telling them that Spire of Dawn is back in stock?  ;D

Spire of Dawn is back in stock, by the way.

"Recently we sent you a large number of emails saying that a product was back in stock; sorry our system got over excited. Ironically we can only apologise by sending another email, sorry!

Thanks for your understanding, and rest assured that order will be restored to the Grot-pens in swift and brutal fashion as soon as I can find my heaviest spanner.

Yours sincerely,

Jim Butler

Webstore Big Boss"


I got 27. I also got my copy of spire of dawn way before release so I didn't need any of them!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on December 29, 2016, 08:16:42 PM
I got several hundred emails from them when the Canoness came back in stock. There was one about every 90 seconds from the afternoon until the next morning.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on December 29, 2016, 08:31:13 PM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on December 29, 2016, 08:16:42 PM
I got several hundred emails from them when the Canoness came back in stock. There was one about every 90 seconds from the afternoon until the next morning.

Do they continue until you buy one?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on January 06, 2017, 01:59:36 PM
Did anyone else watch the Warhammer Live (https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer) Jes Goodwin interview yesterday? It was quite interesting and delightfully off message with Jes talking about designing 'toy soldiers' and why Eldar, Kharn and Ahriman have 'big hats'.

You can watch live for free but must subscribe to watch later ($5 a month or something). Wednesday schedules would be worth keeping an eye on for writer and designer interviews. And Duncan.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 07, 2017, 03:16:30 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on January 06, 2017, 01:59:36 PM
... Jes talking about designing 'toy soldiers'

He's wrong, it's art! I will now write several paragraphs on why GW aren't as good as I remember them being when I was 12.

 lol

Did Jes say anything revealing about anything that might get us miserable old sods excited/angry? I can't be bothered paying out a sub for anything (and Virgin Media blocks Pirate Bay  ;) ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on January 07, 2017, 04:45:32 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on January 07, 2017, 03:16:30 PM
Did Jes say anything revealing about anything that might get us miserable old sods excited/angry? I can't be bothered paying out a sub for anything (and Virgin Media blocks Pirate Bay  ;) ).

One thing he mentioned was that they all thought Rogue Trader would be a six month thing then back to more fantasy. Apparently he got Eldar because he was the new boy and other sculptors had claimed sci-fi armoured warriors (Space Marines) and space dwarfs, though of course he does like elves too (a lot I'd imagine).

He said he's mostly doing concept work now as he doesn't want to learn digital sculpting. He still does some 3ups I think as the Tech Priest Dominus (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ad-Mec-Tech-Priest-Dominus) is his, though likely done a couple of years ago at least.

Edit: you could probably watch it with the free trial.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 07, 2017, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on January 07, 2017, 04:45:32 PM
One thing he mentioned was that they all thought Rogue Trader would be a six month thing then back to more fantasy. Apparently he got Eldar because he was the new boy and other sculptors had claimed sci-fi armoured warriors (Space Marines) and space dwarfs, though of course he does like elves too (a lot I'd imagine).

He said he's mostly doing concept work now as he doesn't want to learn digital sculpting. He still does some 3ups I think as the Tech Priest Dominus (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ad-Mec-Tech-Priest-Dominus) is his, though likely done a couple of years ago at least.

Edit: you could probably watch it with the free trial.

I bet if anyone else had said they didn't want to go digital they'd be gone. How many of the old guard are left now. Jes, Blanche has a token role and Trish Carden maybe?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 08, 2017, 10:04:21 PM
Ho-ree Chap!

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/lord-of-change.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on January 08, 2017, 10:34:40 PM
Wow!

At last they've got round to more plastic greater daemons, and good to see the Lord of Change, who has always been my fave... and perhaps the least popular of the four?

It kind of hurts my eyes to look at.... but I think that's just the paintjob. Sure looks like a good model. I'd love to see it painted in a different style.

Certainly looks more menacing and serious than the classic old metal 'birdman' one!

I gotta say I find GW's 'greater daemon' concepts undeniably rather cool, despite my general dislike for all things Warhammer these days.
With one exception they have really cool names and are great unique concepts for big, all-powerful bad guys.
Lord Of Change. That's an awesome name, and I love the idea of a crazy bird-sorcerer who represents both devious, labyrinthine plotting and insane brain-melting ever-changing chaos.
Keeper Of Secrets. Again a very cool name, and the idea of a hermaphrodite bull-creature with four arms and crab claws is pretty freaky, and thus cool.
Great Unclean One. How can you argue with that epic name? And when done well, has the potential for the most wonderful (and disgusting) model.
Bloodthrister. Ok, ok, that sounds pretty dumb, and it has never been the most unique of the four in appearance..... But three out of four isn't bad!

I remember the old metal sculpts of these four big guys which came out in the late 90s I think? Seemed very cool at the time, but perhaps haven't aged well (though I think the Great Unclean One still stands up well). For some reason they gave them new and inferior heads some years later, no idea why...
Then the BIG resin Forge World ones... WOW. Those four are just incredible. Flawless. Terrifying. And of course beyond the financial means of most gamers.
And looking back at the original old metal ones which first came out in the very early 90s... They were cute! No where near as big as their later incarnations, not much bigger than man sized, but they had multiple parts so you could kind of make your own, had more variety, a bit goofy looking....

And now they are finally doing them all in the big plastic kits.
I'm not sure what I think about the Bloodthirster from a few years ago. Yes, I think it's probably a great model, just the GW paintjobs put me off it a bit. I think the variant with the two-handed axe and the darker colour scheme worked the best, the one with bright red skin and the weird whip (is that a brick on the end of a chain?) not so much. I was a bit confused that they put out ANOTHER bloodthirster shortly afterwards, apparently some named character, much the same but not as good IMO....
And also a bit confused that they were releasing all these big monster kits and hadn't got round to the greater daemons much earlier? They even released an almost-great-unclean-one Nurgle monster character thing, which dwarfed the current metal GUO and made him look pathetic (in size at least).
But this Lord Of Change... yes, I like it! Very interested in seeing if it comes with any variants in the box as seems to be the norm nowadays, and definitely want to see it painted by someone else.

Looking forward to the Keeper Of Secrets and the Great Unclean One, hopefully not too far in the future!!!!

Well done GW, I guess...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 08, 2017, 10:45:47 PM
Is that actually a photo of a painted mini, or is is a graphic render, photoshopped together with a photo of a base?

I had the same feeling when looking at the battlesister picture - something very unreal about her face...No depth in the picture...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on January 08, 2017, 11:25:08 PM
Quote from: Argonor on January 08, 2017, 10:45:47 PM
Is that actually a photo of a painted mini, or is is a graphic render, photoshopped together with a photo of a base?

I had the same feeling when looking at the battlesister picture - something very unreal about her face...No depth in the picture...?
I think it's the really bright colours they paint with and the glaring white backgrounds. I don't think they do the sculpts any favours.

I really like the look of this one. I didn't think much of the new Bloodthirster. Or the old one, to be fair, it was always my least favourite of the greater demons. But this? I like this a lot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on January 09, 2017, 03:17:18 AM
The Lord of Change looks a beast but I'm not sure how I feel about it.  They were always characterized as the weedy greater demon but he looks pretty buff.  While I'm not sure of the the direction I have to give them some points for going it their way.  I liked the skeksis stylings of the old lord but that's to the credit of Brian Fround not the GW team.  Love it or hate it it is theirs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 09, 2017, 05:30:03 AM
Apparently there are a couple of options in the box (including making Fateweaver, a named character?).  I'd like to see a slightly scrawnier/creepier head with a more bird-like face...but all in all I can't complain.  I am a little troubled by the continued direction of overbearing detail though.  I shudder to imagine the average 12-15 year old who gets this (somehow affording it) and tries to paint it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on January 09, 2017, 09:05:00 AM
Quote from: Elbows on January 09, 2017, 05:30:03 AM
I shudder to imagine the average 12-15 year old who gets this (somehow affording it) and tries to paint it.

You think they paint them!  :o

Happy for all the gamers who like this, they are absolutely ecstatic on dakka which is a real turnup as they are a very critical bunch. For me, it's the same as almost everything they have put out for fantasy recently - just too much. Too big, too many gubbins hanging off overly exaggerated features. It's like they have said, "turn it up to 11? Why stop there, go to 13".

I am starting to sound like the other moaning old farts around here now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 09, 2017, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: Nord on January 09, 2017, 09:05:00 AM
For me, it's the same as almost everything they have put out for fantasy recently - just too much. Too big, too many gubbins hanging off overly exaggerated features. It's like they have said, "turn it up to 11? Why stop there, go to 13".

Yup.

They jumped the shark years ago and have since been jumping whales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 09, 2017, 11:03:38 AM
I really like that new Lord of Change - the style (even the head) is just how I hoped it would be.

That said, these untransportably-huge over-delicate models with sky-high price tags are wearing thin. Like with the Bloodthirster, if this model was about half or two-thirds the size, I would consider getting one. As it is, I would have nowhere to put/store it, and doubt I could ever transport it anywhere for a game. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 09, 2017, 01:16:52 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 09, 2017, 05:30:03 AM
I shudder to imagine the average 12-15 year old who gets this (somehow affording it) and tries to paint it.

This mini, like most of the stuff that GW is now putting out, is no more suitable for 12 year olds than Kingdom of Death. It is aimed at a different market.

12 year olds go for zombicide and frostgrave... easy to paint and cheap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on January 09, 2017, 04:09:53 PM
I like these demons much better than the current crop:

(http://www.solegends.com/citcat198504cja/c198504cjp028-02.jpg)

I especially like the left-hand "chaos demon" - he's exactly the sort of squatting monstrosity that Elric might encounter in some nest of chaos. There's a nicely painted example here (http://forum.oldhammer.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5992&start=0). The mantis-bodied female one is excellent too - something of late-period Zarozinia about her, I think.

I'd crawl over fifty bloodthirsters just to get to one C34, and a lot of people seem to agree: he and his kind go for about 40 quid each on eBay.

Happily, this guy - who also features in those old Citadel catalogues - is still available from Ral Partha Europe:

(http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/images/01-014.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 09, 2017, 04:41:21 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on January 09, 2017, 01:16:52 PM
This mini, like most of the stuff that GW is now putting out, is no more suitable for 12 year olds than Kingdom of Death. It is aimed at a different market.

12 year olds go for zombicide and frostgrave... easy to paint and cheap.

I disagree a bit.  I know the kits are aimed at older, more competent modelers...but I think there will be no shortage of hilariously bad Magnus, Lord of Change etc. floating around in the 14-18 range of players.  40K enjoys one of the youngest gamer groups of any miniatures game I can think of (even if they're just buying up a box or two and not actively playing).  Just searching eBay almost daily for old 40K models...the pain...the misery.  lol  I've never seen such poorly painted stuff. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 09, 2017, 04:57:18 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 09, 2017, 04:41:21 PM
the pain...the misery.  lol  I've never seen such poorly painted stuff. 

I say, you seem to have spelt "Pro" incorrectly  ::)

That aside - like the new not very mini demon, will maybe one day get a cheap proly-painted one off ebay...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on January 09, 2017, 05:30:31 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 09, 2017, 04:41:21 PM
40K enjoys one of the youngest gamer groups of any miniatures game I can think of (even if they're just buying up a box or two and not actively playing).  Just searching eBay almost daily for old 40K models...the pain...the misery.  lol  I've never seen such poorly painted stuff. 

Though they have an excuse if they are beginners! We all have to start somewhere, paint shaming is not cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on January 09, 2017, 05:58:38 PM
I agree with all criticism that these big centrepiece models are too over the top in terms of details... and seem too delicate and difficult to transport......

But I think it works well in this case. It's a god damn Lord Of Change!

And yes, he is supposed to be the 'spindliest' greater daemon... but he's still a greater daemon! I'm sure the other three would still all beat him in an arm wrestle, but he should be able to destroy regular guys like you and me.

I like the more bestial head. Though the more 'human' old bird head (if that makes sense - it was less bestial and had more human character) still has its charm. I've heard it has multiple head options, so if one of them is less bestial then that will work nicely, giving you the option!

I don't think every Warhammer army needs a big over the top centrepiece model like this. But if there is one army it works well for, it's Chaos, and if there is one god who the over-detailed, spindl, look works for, it is Tzeentch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: twrchtrwyth on January 09, 2017, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: Nord on January 09, 2017, 05:30:31 PM
Though they have an excuse if they are beginners! We all have to start somewhere, paint shaming is not cool.
+1
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 09, 2017, 07:03:14 PM
I'm quite sure all of the stuff on eBay is from old collections - a collection of peoples' first models (hence why they're selling them).  If I saw the stuff I painted in the 90's, I'd probably shudder.  I just look at GW's entire line of models now and I find almost nothing that makes a good model for young painters to cut their teeth on.  Maybe the starter push-fit marines, etc.  I think their range is out-pacing their entry market.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 09, 2017, 07:39:30 PM
Quote from: Nord on January 09, 2017, 09:05:00 AM
"turn it up to 11? Why stop there, go to 13".



The new setting is a big mash up of all the heavy metal/michael moorcock/psychedelic fantasy aspects of the old world, so it makes sense for them to model this way.
And why not? Every game system has made it's universes off the back of tolkien and old folklore and while they certainly are great (my tolkien collection is insured. I kid you not.) this is a different world ,one that IS turned up to 13.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 09, 2017, 08:33:35 PM
"Everything turned up to 13" sort of works for Chaos.

But only if you don't also do it for everyone else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 09, 2017, 09:41:36 PM
It's a kit, not a model, at least that's how I look at it. Lots and lots of parts, a monopose and only a few options for head/weapon changes. You cannot bend it, like you can with metals, in order to get a slightly different, more natural look/pose unless you start very heavy converting, cutting and modelling. Not something I greatly enjoy doing while putting together a 50/60+ parts plastic kit. But, as always, to each his own, there's no right or wrong in the hobby, and I admire people greatly who can actually make something really personal, lifelike and unique out of it but again, it's not my cup of tea...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 10, 2017, 02:52:25 AM
I feel like there's a 'Neo Baroque' thing going on in GW miniatures (and in some other aspects of pop culture as well).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 10, 2017, 08:29:48 AM
I'm not going to buy one, but that Lord of Change is excellent - it is as though GW have finally worked out how to bring to life the idea behind the first LoC miniature.

(I say this as a die-hard Space Marine (2nd ed Epic) player. Greater daemons should be huuuuge).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 10, 2017, 08:30:34 AM
Not for me really, but a lovely model.  Reminds me a little of the description of Rumour in the Aeneid:

Rumour, compared with whom no other is as swift.
She flourishes by speed, and gains strength as she goes:
first limited by fear, she soon reaches into the sky,
walks on the ground, and hides her head in the clouds.
Earth, incited to anger against the gods, so they say,
bore her last, a monster, vast and terrible, fleet-winged
and swift-footed, sister to Coeus and Enceladus,
who for every feather on her body has as many
watchful eyes below (marvellous to tell), as many
tongues speaking, as many listening ears.
She flies, screeching, by night through the shadows
between earth and sky, never closing her eyelids
in sweet sleep: by day she sits on guard on tall roof-tops
or high towers, and scares great cities, as tenacious
of lies and evil, as she is messenger of truth.

Very Tzeentch!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on January 10, 2017, 05:39:52 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on January 10, 2017, 08:30:34 AM
Not for me really, but a lovely model.  Reminds me a little of the description of Rumour in the Aeneid:

Rumour, compared with whom no other is as swift.
She flourishes by speed, and gains strength as she goes:
first limited by fear, she soon reaches into the sky,
walks on the ground, and hides her head in the clouds.
Earth, incited to anger against the gods, so they say,
bore her last, a monster, vast and terrible, fleet-winged
and swift-footed, sister to Coeus and Enceladus,
who for every feather on her body has as many
watchful eyes below (marvellous to tell), as many
tongues speaking, as many listening ears.
She flies, screeching, by night through the shadows
between earth and sky, never closing her eyelids
in sweet sleep: by day she sits on guard on tall roof-tops
or high towers, and scares great cities, as tenacious
of lies and evil, as she is messenger of truth.

Very Tzeentch!

Great comparison! (And it brings Higher Latin screeching back from the past ...)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 10, 2017, 05:42:52 PM
It's true!  Book IV was the set text for my Higher in 1985!

I'm sure whoever first designed the Lord of Change at GW knew their legends  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on January 10, 2017, 09:51:34 PM
Yup, Book IV. Mine was 1990 ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on January 10, 2017, 10:59:10 PM
What are people's thoughts on the new gangs of commorah game?

I'm not sure if I can link to it here, it is from the official warhammer community site you see...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 10, 2017, 11:10:28 PM
Quote from: matthais-mouse on January 10, 2017, 10:59:10 PM
What are people's thoughts on the new gangs of commorah game?

The consensus is that the card terrain is very lame, but the models included might be a 'relatively to GW standards' good value, depending on price.
If the rules are neat I may make spires that go down to the ground and create a plexiglas surface that sits on them so it feels like they're up high. I'm hoping it's fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 10, 2017, 11:28:21 PM
Despite being a life-long Eldar player I've never liked anything Dark Eldar related so I just click away when I see it mentioned.  Is it just a $60 mini-game like Lost Patrol, etc?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 11, 2017, 03:28:21 AM
I think it looks like GWs attempt to get in on the X wing style manoeuvre template game market.
They're playing to their strengths by using a part of their universe that fits and by having narrative campaigns rather than the lack of narrative leagues that X-wing works on.

I can see them using this as a rules feedback game for later skirmish games like the rereleased necromunda or mordheim equivalent.

I'll probably buy it because
A) I like the models.
B) I like games in the 40k universe that don't take an age to play
And C) staff discount so why the hell not?

The terrain is awful but I'm sure something that won't matter when i proxy in my own terrain.

All these little boxed games to seem to me to be the design teams way of testing the water and the new CEO's way of offering discounts without "cheapening the brand" which was always their line when it came to their prices.
It's a good thing I say.

It's a small release with a niche appeal, but that's awesome, it means we can expect alot more of these kind of tie on board games from GW in the future.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 11, 2017, 11:35:11 AM
Have to see the contents of the box first. The setting sounds good to me, I probably will play it a few times but buy it myself is the next chapter ( not really a 40K fan, although I enjoyed Necromunda a lot ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 6milPhil on January 11, 2017, 08:17:03 PM
Games Workshop has battled back from a tough 2015 to post much-improved figures for the second half of last year, with revenues soaring and pre-tax profit more than doubling.

The Nottingham-based company, which is known for its model figures, saw profit before tax leap to £13.8m in the six months to November 27, compared to £6.3m for the same period in 2015.

Games Workshop also saw revenues jump 28.2pc from £55.3m to £70.9m, with chief executive Kevin Rountree saying the business and the hobby is in “good shape”.

The company’s share price climbed nearly 5pc in early trading on Tuesday morning.

The retailer, which specialises in figurines of fantasy creatures such as aliens and goblins, exports to countries including Australia, Japan and the US.
Games Workshop revenues jumped from £55.3m to £70.9m
Games Workshop revenues jumped from £55.3m to £70.9m

After opening 17 stores (including relocations) and closing eight in the six-month period, it now has 460 shops across the world, including new stores in Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong.

The half-year results come after a challenging 2015, when it was hit by disappointing Christmas sales and a slowdown on the high street.

But the company announced in October that sales had been boosted by the weakening of the pound.

“Our business and hobby are in good shape,” said Mr Rountree. “We are pleased to report sales and profit growth in the period across all channels. The improvement was built on a considerable team effort across the business.”

He added: “The key priority in the period reported has been to give our store managers the appropriate product and sales support to help them recruit new customers, retain our existing customers and re-recruit lapsed customers. Recruiting new store managers remains a key area of focus.”

Games Workshop also sells its intellectual property to video game developers. Royalties from these sales more than doubled in the half year compared to the same period in 2015, from £1.5m to £3.3m.


via: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/10/profits-soar-games-workshop-fantasy-model-retailer-battles-back/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/10/profits-soar-games-workshop-fantasy-model-retailer-battles-back/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 11, 2017, 08:58:35 PM
Quote from: 6milPhil on January 11, 2017, 08:17:03 PM


Games Workshop also sells its intellectual property to video game developers. Royalties from these sales more than doubled in the half year compared to the same period in 2015, from £1.5m to £3.3m.


via: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/10/profits-soar-games-workshop-fantasy-model-retailer-battles-back/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/10/profits-soar-games-workshop-fantasy-model-retailer-battles-back/)

Well that is nice money for free for them (Yes, I know they had to develop a fan base originally, among other things, for this to happen so not technically free)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on January 11, 2017, 09:26:15 PM
The LoC is too busy but pretty decent. I still love the originals - time poring over the catalogue pages thinking about the head and body combinations was time well spent! I still have all except the KoS, which was 'borrowed' and never returned.

As for GW's financial performance - they have missed out on this for years for the simple fact that they were making nowhere near enough of their creative potential.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 11, 2017, 09:43:19 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on January 11, 2017, 09:26:15 PM
As for GW's financial performance - they have missed out on this for years for the simple fact that they were making nowhere near enough of their creative potential.

That's it right there, in my opinion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 13, 2017, 07:27:25 PM
Well... I have finished my first Khorne figure, an Exalted Death Bringer and he looks great. I love the miniature.

Now I've started on the Knight-Azyros miniature:

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120218003_SCEternalKnightAzyros01.jpg)

Like the Death Bringer I modified the miniature a bit by lopping off the wings on the lantern thingy. On the Death Bringer I lopped off the hanging skulls under his axe.

Nevertheless, I am really amazed at how they design and sprue these miniatures. He is, at least to me, an absolutely fantastic miniature and I can't wait to put paint on him. The way they got him into the air and the design of those wings is just amazimg.. at least to me.

Which brings me to another topic.

It had been quite awhile since I have bought anything, miniatures wise, from GW. When Age of Sigmar came out, I not only bought the starter box, but also the starter paint set. The metallic paints are, IMO, absolutely first rate. I used the gold for my Stormcast and the Bronze for the Khorne dudes. The washes are also really nice. In fact, I never used pre-made washes before, but after watching Duncan and trying them out, I found they made a great deal of difference to my painting.

GW has, on numerous occasions, helped me bring my painting up a notch. I'm glad they are hanging in there and still able to teach an old dog like me a new thing or two.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 13, 2017, 07:32:52 PM
Looks like GW is going to release a Gyrinx miniature (from the olden days of Rogue Trader). 

I'm liking their direction lately.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 13, 2017, 07:49:09 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on January 13, 2017, 07:27:25 PM
Well... I have finished my first Khorne figure, an Exalted Death Bringer and he looks great. I love the miniature.

Now I've started on the Knight-Azyros miniature:

Like the Death Bringer I modified the miniature a bit by lopping off the wings on the lantern thingy. On the Death Bringer I lopped off the hanging skulls under his axe.

Nevertheless, I am really amazed at how they design and sprue these miniatures. He is, at least to me, an absolutely fantastic miniature and I can't wait to put paint on him. The way they got him into the air and the design of those wings is just amazimg.. at least to me.

Which brings me to another topic.

It had been quite awhile since I have bought anything, miniatures wise, from GW. When Age of Sigmar came out, I not only bought the starter box, but also the starter paint set. The metallic paints are, IMO, absolutely first rate. I used the gold for my Stormcast and the Bronze for the Khorne dudes. The washes are also really nice. In fact, I never used pre-made washes before, but after watching Duncan and trying them out, I found they made a great deal of difference to my painting.

GW has, on numerous occasions, helped me bring my painting up a notch. I'm glad they are hanging in there and still able to teach an old dog like me a new thing or two.

I've heard good things about those golds. Cool model! I've pretty much totally changed my mind on the AoS thing. The rules look really cool, and the setting is just different. I think my initial disdain was because I was comparing it to the old setting (which I loved).

I hope you go back to posting pics of your work. Duncan's videos are ace aren't they?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 13, 2017, 07:53:59 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on January 13, 2017, 07:32:52 PM
Looks like GW is going to release a Gyrinx miniature (from the olden days of Rogue Trader). 

I'm liking their direction lately.

Going off of Warhammer Community teasers and the ever-revolving rumor mill, the big question is currently "what goes with the Gyrinx".  There have been a couple of pictures of painted models (well portions of...) which people have been unable to crack so far.  Likewise Duncan painting a Gyrinx on a rather large oval base - likely intended for a character model who accompanies the Gyrinx - is killin' people.  There is art of an Eldar Shadow Seer character with a Gyrinx, so it's likely that's what we'll get.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 13, 2017, 07:54:40 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on January 13, 2017, 07:27:25 PM
The metallic paints are, IMO, absolutely first rate. I used the gold for my Stormcast and the Bronze for the Khorne dudes. The washes are also really nice.

I might give them a run out then since I'm getting a bit low on some of my metallic paints.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 14, 2017, 10:09:16 PM
Quote from: Gibby on January 13, 2017, 07:49:09 PM
I've pretty much totally changed my mind on the AoS thing. The rules look really cool, and the setting is just different. I think my initial disdain was because I was comparing it to the old setting (which I loved).

Same here. Different game, different setting. Silver Tower started to turn me and now I'm all in. I like it for what it is rather than disliking it for what it isn't.

Must get my first Stormcast guy finished.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 14, 2017, 10:23:02 PM
The new novel to tie in with the tzeench release looks to really add that nice nitty gritty human viewpoint to the world of AoS .

"n Mortal Realms news, we have City of Secrets. Nick Horth’s novella returns us to the Mortal Realms several generations after the events of the Realmgate Wars, in one of the new Free Cities. It has a much more human scale than those great epic tales that established the mythos of the realms: fewer grand epic battles and more murder-mystery (though there is still battle, obviously). The heroes here are not the sigmarite-clad Stormcasts, but humble humans, duardin and aelves, navigating the twisting alleys, politics and literal backstabbing of a sprawling city, to uncover a darkness that lies beneath the surface."

And fron the warhammer TV interview
"he explains further that a free guild captain see's something he should not have seen and only the witch hunter and his companion who is a duardin is helping him. He goes on to explain this book will see how normal people view all the craziness but on the ground level things are still similar yet not. Like there is a shard of the world that was in the sea next to the city that is mined as currency to be used to glimpse in the future.

Also the scourge privateers control the docks and they are not nice people going by Nick's description of them twitch chat called them pretty much Aelven mafia well they sound like it. The witch hunter is from the order of ayzr created by sigmar to destroy corruption in the new cities but they are stretched to the absolute limit with all the new people coming into the cities.

They also look at the divide between those who came from ayzr who are taking all the important jobs and the tribes nomands and people who survived the age of chaos coming into the cities it seems they live in the more slum like area. Also many of the people of ayzr view these people coming in corrupted by chaos because they wonder how they survived with the age of chaos hanging over them.

Also we get to see how a normal human views a stormcast of course some are heroic and mingle with the populace but the ones in the city are the knight excelsior who hate everything to do with chaos and of course if they get a hint they will carry out a purge and purges happened in the past. Hence why the witch hunter's job is so important.

One last thing sigmar's hope was to have all three main races living in the cities together of course certain armies are seperate and doing their own thing even if they are allies but largely the cities are a mixed population perhaps with one main group. Like the city on the novel is mainly a free guild city while let's say the one in the realm of life has a larger aelf population since it was mainly built by the phoenix temple. "

Sounds good to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 15, 2017, 10:20:49 AM
Quote from: nic-e on January 14, 2017, 10:23:02 PM
Also the scourge privateers control the docks and they are not nice people going by Nick's description of them twitch chat called them pretty much Aelven mafia well they sound like it.

They're the descendants of the Dark Elves aren't they? If they're now a mean gang then if anything they've turned quite nice compared to their ancestors. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 15, 2017, 12:24:33 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on January 13, 2017, 07:27:25 PM

It had been quite awhile since I have bought anything, miniatures wise, from GW. When Age of Sigmar came out, I not only bought the starter box, but also the starter paint set. The metallic paints are, IMO, absolutely first rate. I used the gold for my Stormcast and the Bronze for the Khorne dudes. The washes are also really nice. In fact, I never used pre-made washes before, but after watching Duncan and trying them out, I found they made a great deal of difference to my painting.

Got to agree with you there - I'm loving the base colours and the metallics especially.  Try the new Retributor Armour gold base and Stormhost silver layer paints - they're expensive but work brilliantly.

Duncan's painting vids have been brilliant, and have given me a lot of good tips.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on January 15, 2017, 12:44:33 PM
I still dislike the aesthetic of AoS.  Just does nothing for me. 

I do think the direction GW are heading is much more positive than anything they've done for years. And looking at their published profits a lot of other people are thinking that too. 

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 15, 2017, 01:09:54 PM
Here's the alternate build of the LoC (I guess this is Fateweaver?)

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/tzeentch-kairos.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on January 15, 2017, 01:51:44 PM
Interesting, you would have thought with numerous head options available (I think there are two normal plus the two fateweaver ones, for a total of four, but I may be wrong), they would have provided one without an 'screaming' open mouth? Would look really cool with a closed mouth, less monstrous, more 'sly' looking appearance I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on January 15, 2017, 01:53:32 PM
Not a fan of those colours...
I really liked the blue on the wings of the other model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 15, 2017, 07:52:08 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on January 15, 2017, 01:53:32 PM
Not a fan of those colours...
I really liked the blue on the wings of the other model.

If only it came unpainted ....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on January 15, 2017, 08:29:51 PM
That would be nice, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on January 15, 2017, 09:22:30 PM
Quote from: nic-e
Quote from: The Voivod on January 15, 2017, 01:53:32 PM
Not a fan of those colours...
I really liked the blue on the wings of the other model.

If only it came unpainted ....

Quote from: The Voivod on January 15, 2017, 08:29:51 PM
That would be nice, wouldn't it?

Now don't give them ideas... before you know it, the figures will be pro-pre-painted at x times the previous price... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 15, 2017, 10:21:14 PM
Well, stripping is an option...for making enough money to afford those minis...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on January 16, 2017, 12:17:52 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on January 11, 2017, 09:43:19 PM
That's it right there, in my opinion.

Yep, the minis put out for the last year or so have been for the most part, incredible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 19, 2017, 12:45:46 PM
Just received a new order from GW.

I got the Daemon Prince  :-*:

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120201055_DaemonPrince03.jpg)

It is very cool miniature with lots of variations of weapons and heads. I plan to build it at the same time I will be doing my Khorgorath:

(http://i.imgur.com/VeqcNgh.jpg)

The plan is to use some of the parts from the Daemon to convert the Khorgorath a bit; as I don't like the basic model all that much.

Also, seeing as how I am now putting on the full press with Khorne, I went ahead and bought the Mephiston Red Spray primer. I believe it will vastly speed up my progress... we'll see.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on January 19, 2017, 01:10:06 PM
I like the khorgorath, it's pretty easy to swap out the head. That's what I did.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZKXNCkrUTz0/VnvfYOfWlkI/AAAAAAAAE0M/owKUM_VMtMY/s1600/Khorne-80.jpg)

Sorry, but I do not like the daemon prince model, one of the worst they have ever produced.  :(

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 19, 2017, 01:57:31 PM
Excellent conversion on dat Khorgothingy, Nord. You just made a mwoaish model look absolutely great  :).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 19, 2017, 02:31:01 PM
Nice take on the khorgorath Nord. If I ever paint mine I was thinking of making the skulls look a bit bloody too, as if they're pushing out of him rather than just set into the flesh. Love the look of the Khorne symbol cut into the body.  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on January 19, 2017, 02:59:21 PM
Nice job,
Good headswap and I much prefer your paintjob
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 19, 2017, 03:08:46 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on January 19, 2017, 01:57:31 PM
Excellent conversion on dat Khorgothingy, Nord. You just made a mwoaish model look absolutely great  :).


Agreed!

I'm looking to not only swap out the head, but possibly other things too. Will see how it goes, but I'm thinking about changing the hands (there is a really nice axe that I can use from the Daemon, for example) and maybe getting rid of the skulls coming out of the skin. I'm not too into skulls everywhere and like the knorne models because their body musculature is so well done.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 19, 2017, 11:14:01 PM
For any of the Oldhammer crowd, I've been assembling a blog, wherein myself and some friends will be trying some 2nd edition Warhammer 40K with some changes.  Aside from that, the blog is a place where I've been collecting all the resources I can.  There is some good art, some videos, some codex and white dwarf overviews, and several PDF resources for the cards heavily present in 2nd ed.

http://projectanvil.blogspot.com/

If you get bored, perhaps worth a perusal!  We're working on re-producing all of the main datafaxes from the game as well (same layout, but hoping to make crisp, printable PDFs etc.). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 20, 2017, 04:10:47 AM
Quote from: Elbows on January 19, 2017, 11:14:01 PM
For any of the Oldhammer crowd, I've been assembling a blog, wherein myself and some friends will be trying some 2nd edition Warhammer 40K with some changes. 

Best edition, but I'm afraid for me I'm long past my 40k days ... too bad, really.

Good luck with the project!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on January 20, 2017, 07:12:34 AM
I like the Khorgorath's stock head but Nord you nailed that paint job!  Much prefer it to the studio version.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 20, 2017, 02:37:19 PM
Funnily enough, I have been a bit of a 2E fixation recently (and It's shocking how many of the game rules I've retained through all the editions since then!).

For me though, the vehicle rules (especially for light vehicle and Dreads) are far too fiddly to bother with, as is the mind-boggling array of (only slightly) different templates.

I'd want to do new vehicle rules myself really, and I'd also reduce the number of templates to something more manageable (so flamer, Destructor, and Stream of Corruption would all use the same template for example).

Finally, I would probably transcribe all the Codexes into a more user-friendly format (i.e., all the special rules, statlines, weapon options, and points are on one page for each unit entry). All the flipping back-and-forth to write an army list out just winds me up!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 20, 2017, 03:46:23 PM
I actually really like the vehicle rules, but I enjoy stuff flying across the board exploding and killing all my stuff...

I agree about the templates for the most part (I'd remove the thudd gun template) and I agree with Destructor being useless as a "new" template etc.  As far as stats and stuff goes I find it pretty easy to keep most of them in my head, but I agree that a cheat-sheet might be in order for each army.  Much like the Chaos Codex cheat sheet.  I'd say I want to keep about 80% of 2nd ed. as far as the chunkiness goes - simply because I enjoy the chunk!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 20, 2017, 04:52:24 PM
I don't really mind the vehicle wackiness so much, it's more the overly-involved results determination. With more than one vehicle per side (say, like a bike or Land Speeder squadron), it gets really slow really fast.  :?

In a similar vein, needing all the big datafaxes really clutters up the table in an edition that already has a lot of clutter to begin with (since I assume everybody and their mother uses the Psychic cards etc?!).

The vehicle weapon upgrades/options should also be in the army list rather than on the datafaxes too, as you need that info when you're list-building but not when you're playing.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 20, 2017, 05:12:24 PM
While I'm a big proponent of cards...I agree with a larger game you end up with a ton of stuff.  I think you can ditch the force deck (as we're doing), the mission cards are crap, etc.  I've considered a binder to hold all of the wargear cards (ala collecting baseball cards or somesuch).  I'll keep you posted as we trim some of the fat.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 20, 2017, 08:20:49 PM
When I was young (cue suitable music...  ;)), it was less of an issue in some ways because most of us played in the time-honoured tradition of Floorhammer - so plenty of room, even if you sometimes couldn't find the Land Raider's datafax because you were sitting on it. Now that I'm all grown up, I need to sit at a table because sitting cross-legged on the floor for more than about fifteen minutes hurts my knees - this makes economy of space (and the visual spectacle of a game's progress) more important to me these days.

For the Psychic phase, I think the WHFB magic dice system works pretty well - and it's easy to bodge into 2E since it's basically still "sci-fi Warhammer". Plus, you only need a few spell cards or a spell reference table for each discipline then. However, it does make events like Energy Drain, Psychic Duel, and Reflection hard to include without the Warp Deck.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing how you get on with your efforts - please keep us (er, me?) updated? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on January 21, 2017, 06:01:25 PM
2nd ed really was ace. My army was Orks, which meant I pretty much always lost but could have fun while doing so. Even taking full advantage of the allies rules and taking a Chaos Lord in terminator armour, Chaos dreadnought and Lord of Change (with Orks remember!) didn't help much against Space Muhrines. People could build truly silly characters. My friend would take a Tech Priest, give him a jet pack and graviton gun and use him to assassinate Ghazghkull and it worked virtually every bloody time!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 21, 2017, 07:57:12 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on January 21, 2017, 06:01:25 PM
2nd ed really was ace. My army was Orks, which meant I pretty much always lost but could have fun while doing so. Even taking full advantage of the allies rules and taking a Chaos Lord in terminator armour, Chaos dreadnought and Lord of Change (with Orks remember!) didn't help much against Space Muhrines. People could build truly silly characters. My friend would take a Tech Priest, give him a jet pack and graviton gun and use him to assassinate Ghazghkull and it worked virtually every bloody time!

I played orks and was virtually unstoppable- until Warp Spiders came along! Loved 2nd and 3rd edition greenskins :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 21, 2017, 09:08:07 PM
lol, I hear you. I had tyranids, 2nd ed tyranids was so awesome because it also had the genestealer cults army list, which I pawed through religiously but never managed to get any cult minis. They never stocked them where I was. I still have my 2nd ed tyranid army too. My brother had eldar and those damn warp spiders. Killed my Hive tyrant way too easily. Then they just jumped away again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 21, 2017, 09:17:54 PM
I think it's an eye opener when you look at the size/content and quality of 2nd ed. codices compared to many which followed.  I have a break down of all of the codices on that blog and it's mind-boggling how huge some of the army lists are - the Chaos Codex being shockingly notable in its size/scope.  It's one of the things which left a terrible taste in my mouth going into 3rd.  Oh, that huge wealth of knowledge tome?  Here's a small booklet with half of your army missing... :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on January 21, 2017, 09:58:19 PM
Yeah - looking at my Chaos Codices now - they really went on a diet.

And another Ork player (first army), I loved the mantra "Orkses never lose a battle, if we win we win, if we die we die fightin' so it don't count, if we runs for it we don't die either, cos we come back for annuva go, see!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 21, 2017, 11:06:41 PM
WFB Chaos Army list came in a freaking boxed set!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 22, 2017, 01:10:39 PM
I'm really liking the new Tzeentch miniatures.

Thankfully they are on pre-order. I am resolute in not adding to my lead/plastic pile so until I get some other stuff done, they will have to wait.

So right now I'm working on a unit of Judicators, a Knight-Azyros, 5 Sisters of Battle (using the new paint scheme to see how they turn out), a unit of Bloodreavers, a Daemon Prince and the khorgorath.

So once I finish all that... Tzeentch here we come...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 22, 2017, 02:43:04 PM
While I've no interest in building/gathering a Tzeentch force I just think it's neat to see them finally be supported on the level you normally see Khorne/Nurgle (which are arguably the most popular/common/etc.).

If they do this kind of release for each god over the next say 2-3 years...Chaos players will be in a darned good place.  I also hope they keep with the older armour - I've never understood why they weren't modeled in more older heresy stuff anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on January 22, 2017, 02:55:47 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 21, 2017, 09:17:54 PM
I think it's an eye opener when you look at the size/content and quality of 2nd ed. codices compared to many which followed.  I have a break down of all of the codices on that blog and it's mind-boggling how huge some of the army lists are - the Chaos Codex being shockingly notable in its size/scope.  It's one of the things which left a terrible taste in my mouth going into 3rd.  Oh, that huge wealth of knowledge tome?  Here's a small booklet with half of your army missing... :)

It was the same in WFB going from 5th edition to 6th.

My own army (High Elves) didn't really lose any units (unless you count special characters (the Everqueen got her own Maiden Guard unit that went with her), and the 'bound monsters' that every army had access to), but it was definitely a much slimmer tome. The 4th and 5th edition High Elf books had a very extensive history of the race - the Chronicles of the Phoenix Kings I think it was called. That wasn't in the 6th edition book, which instead had a much more slimmed-down summary. I was very disappointed at the time, all the 6th edition books were like this.

Though the 6th edition rulebook itself was fantastic and was jam-packed full of incredible new artwork, which I think made up for it.

But yeah some other armies surely lost a lot of units moving over editions. The Empire, off the top of my head, lost Kislev Winged Lancers, Kislev Horse Archers, War Wagons, Reiksguard Foot Knights, Halflings, Ogres....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 22, 2017, 03:45:06 PM
Love the new Tzeentch units.  The Tzaangors are especially beautiful.  I shall be resolute for the moment, although a Start Collecting box would see my will crumble...

The thing I like most about them is that they're the first models, for me, that really fit the theme of the AoS game - "war in heaven comes to the lands of mortals".  Magical and weird and great minis too.  Stormcast and Gorechunderers (or whatever they're called) never really did it for me.

There are about half a dozen things I could buy from GW right now, and the LotR Iron Hills Ram Riders may well tip me over the edge.  I've not felt like that about them in, well, decades.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 22, 2017, 06:11:23 PM
Well the new character models for the 2nd Fall of Cadia book (?) are out...aaaand...blech.

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/reveal.jpg)

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/reveal3.jpg)

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/reveal2.jpg)

I don't even know where to start...other than there's now increasingly less likelihood I'd try 8th edition when it comes out.  The Age of Sigmar approach to the styling is not a good sign...and quasi-good-bad-wtf Eldar?  (soon to be renamed Aeldari...because GW).  No thanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 22, 2017, 06:24:53 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/01/22/gathering-storm-ii-first-look/


Eldar godhead? Eldar godhead!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 22, 2017, 06:27:27 PM
REPOSTING - because this was at the bottom of the last page:

Well the new character models for the 2nd Fall of Cadia book (?) are out...aaaand...blech.

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/reveal.jpg)

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/reveal3.jpg)

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/reveal2.jpg)

I don't even know where to start...other than there's now increasingly less likelihood I'd try 8th edition when it comes out.  The Age of Sigmar approach to the styling is not a good sign...and quasi-good-bad-wtf Eldar?  (soon to be renamed Aeldari...because GW).  No thanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 22, 2017, 06:31:52 PM
aeldari is thought to be their ancient name for themselves. Bare in mind Eldar is only what the imperium calls them.

The models are meant to be the court of a new eldar god, so of course they look different, they're a rebirth of the old eldar ways.

besides which the eldar models have never matched the levels of detail and arcane styling that their artwork gave them, at least now they do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 22, 2017, 06:54:48 PM
I like the third model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on January 22, 2017, 06:56:41 PM
I like the first one... it is screaming to me to see it converted into a part-bionic noblewoman from Terra  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 22, 2017, 06:59:53 PM
Quote from: Timbor on January 22, 2017, 06:56:41 PM
I like the first one... it is screaming to me to see it converted into a part-bionic noblewoman from Terra  :D

She's my favorite of the bunch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on January 22, 2017, 08:49:27 PM
She's Asajj Ventress!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on January 22, 2017, 10:34:32 PM
I really like the second one.

And it's because it's quite restrained and subdued. No ridiculous leaping or flying pose, no bizarre flying energy stuff, and no daft oversized hat! Just a solid looking eldar guy with a sword. Nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 22, 2017, 11:26:53 PM
I quite like the first two. The third one looked better in the video I saw. I like the Slaaneshi-infested? look to it, but not a fan of the swirling energy. I don't think that ever works.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 23, 2017, 02:20:51 AM
Quote from: Gibby on January 22, 2017, 11:26:53 PM
I quite like the first two. The third one looked better in the video I saw. I like the Slaaneshi-infested? look to it, but not a fan of the swirling energy. I don't think that ever works.

It's their new thing i suppose. It'll go away in a few years in the same way faces on shields and slotta bases have gone away since.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 23, 2017, 03:50:19 AM
Quote from: Gibby on January 22, 2017, 11:26:53 PM
I don't think that ever works.

I agree, the hard edged nature of sculpture just doesn't capture ethereal and energy effects well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on January 23, 2017, 05:52:59 AM
I like the first model.  It's interesting and who hasn't wanted to paint a cat with earrings?  I'd like the model to paint it up like my cat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 23, 2017, 06:07:06 AM
The first one is really good. Some egits on Reddit were saying it was a "boring and static 2nd edition pose" but they seem to be in the minority. She's got characterisation going on with her pose and everything.

Quote from: Gibby on January 22, 2017, 11:26:53 PM
I quite like the first two. The third one looked better in the video I saw. I like the Slaaneshi-infested? look to it, but not a fan of the swirling energy. I don't think that ever works.

The Eldar (Aeldari now?) gods are basically Chaos daemons. He's an avatar of Ynnead, the Eldar god of the dead.

I think the concept of the sculpt is great and really well executed but the reality of it is that I have no idea where the hell I'd start assembling it, never mind painting it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on January 23, 2017, 11:04:02 AM
Yep, love the first one: lots of potential for conversions to imperial nobles / persons of importance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 23, 2017, 07:16:26 PM
Why did they focus on the cats tail?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 23, 2017, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: beefcake on January 23, 2017, 07:16:26 PM
Why did they focus on the cats tail?

GW has been showing a small, cropped teaser image a week or two before releasing the full pic, to get people guessing.

The detail shots are the previously shown teasers, incorporated into the larger view.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 23, 2017, 08:28:35 PM
Good to know there is a reason. Otherwise that would just be weird.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 24, 2017, 12:50:51 PM
Well...

New Stormcast warriors coming...

(https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture4/1635/SCE-vanguard-hunters.jpg)

and Gryph-hounds!

(https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture5/1635/SCE-gryph.jpg)

There has also been rumors of a new form of cavalry... Gryph-chargers.

Can't wait!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on January 24, 2017, 12:52:24 PM
So they have finally given the Sigmarines bolters.... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 24, 2017, 12:57:14 PM
Well, the Gryphhounds would work pretty nice as later WFB Tzeentchian Chaos Hounds.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 24, 2017, 01:05:03 PM
The gryph hounds look really cool...the Stormcasts look absolutely awful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 24, 2017, 01:17:49 PM
Trim the limbs off and knight's in space,shame they don't scale with anything else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 24, 2017, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on January 24, 2017, 12:52:24 PM
So they have finally given the Sigmarines bolters.... ::)

HA!

That's what I thought, too!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 24, 2017, 02:16:45 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 24, 2017, 01:05:03 PM
The gryph hounds look really cool...the Stormcasts look absolutely awful.

Agreed!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 24, 2017, 03:42:49 PM
Nice. A new Battletome supplement is on the way for Stormcast too. Sounds like these new SC are scout/outrider types and are meant to look a bit more seasoned after traversing the mortal realms. I bet they'd paint up nicely with a bit of grime and battle damage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 24, 2017, 04:10:21 PM
The only plus I see is that they'd be excellent conversions for people wanting to add to their Custodes armies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on January 24, 2017, 04:15:22 PM
More Warhammer Quest! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/01/24/your-quest-continues/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/01/24/your-quest-continues/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 24, 2017, 04:20:45 PM
They can continue to get stuffed until I see a proper successor to the original game.  The Warhammer Quest re-do has been my biggest disappointment with GW in a long time - and I think they're firing on most cylinders lately and headed in the right direction.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on January 24, 2017, 04:21:59 PM
Yet more sigmarines???

But to be fair, if we put aside all the fuss about whether people like the aesthetic direction, whether they look more fantasy or sci-fi, whether it's not 'real warhammer', blah blah blah.... I do think these ones look pretty cool. Funnily enough I actually think they look better than the ones with shields, hammers, spears, etc.

And the hounds are great. Can't complain about them. There will be plenty of uses for them beyond AoS no doubt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 24, 2017, 04:24:34 PM
I do like the Gryph Hounds (minus the "stab your trainer in the heart" spikes...those can be clipped off) - any idea of the scale?  I haven't seen them next to anything.  Are they dogs or comically huge (ala Space Wolf...wolves)?   Horses, even?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on January 24, 2017, 04:29:25 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 24, 2017, 04:20:45 PM
They can continue to get stuffed until I see a proper successor to the original game.  The Warhammer Quest re-do has been my biggest disappointment with GW in a long time - and I think they're firing on most cylinders lately and headed in the right direction.

It was my biggest surprise - a fun game and not the turgid bore that was the original.

But looking at the artwork in the post, it seems all the characters are existing plastic figures, which would be a tad uninspiring following Silver Tower. And hopefully they'll keep the core rules and not needlessly mix things up like they did with the dire Burning of Prospero.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 24, 2017, 05:41:11 PM
"We’re very excited about this for all sorts of reasons. The game will obviously see new quests and challenges for gamers, but perhaps just as excitingly, this set will have an even more involved narrative, and will explore the dark labyrinths beneath one of Sigmar’s new Free Cities: Hammerhal, the twin-tailed city – a metropolis that is built around a Realmgate and sprawls across two realms!"


City of secrets was an amazing book and well worth reading for any old fantasy fan, so if this adds the same level of depth and character to another of the free cities then i am down for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 24, 2017, 06:11:49 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on January 24, 2017, 04:29:25 PM
It was my biggest surprise - a fun game and not the turgid bore that was the original.

But looking at the artwork in the post, it seems all the characters are existing plastic figures, which would be a tad uninspiring following Silver Tower. And hopefully they'll keep the core rules and not needlessly mix things up like they did with the dire Burning of Prospero.

Looking at the artwork I can spot a couple of characters that we got in the heroes sets so I really hope they aren't going to put those in the box. I'm still interested but hoping I don't end up with a third bloody Slaughter Priest or another Tzeentch Sorcerer!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 24, 2017, 06:17:56 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on January 24, 2017, 06:11:49 PM
Looking at the artwork I can spot a couple of characters that we got in the heroes sets so I really hope they aren't going to put those in the box. I'm still interested but hoping I don't end up with a third bloody Slaughter Priest or another Tzeentch Sorcerer!

I wonder if this is a place holder because they don't want us to see their new models ahead of time.
Silver tower artwork wasn't shown until the release because they didn't want to give away new units and models despite the game being announced a while before hand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 24, 2017, 06:26:54 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 24, 2017, 04:24:34 PM
I do like the Gryph Hounds (minus the "stab your trainer in the heart" spikes...those can be clipped off) - any idea of the scale?  I haven't seen them next to anything.  Are they dogs or comically huge (ala Space Wolf...wolves)?   Horses, even?
I did wonder if they could be used as steeds for the smaller end of 28 mm ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 24, 2017, 06:41:47 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on January 24, 2017, 06:26:54 PM
I did wonder if they could be used as steeds for the smaller end of 28 mm ?

as a rule no .Probably for 15mm or some halflings maybe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 24, 2017, 07:30:40 PM
Quote from: nic-e on January 24, 2017, 06:17:56 PM
I wonder if this is a place holder because they don't want us to see their new models ahead of time.
Silver tower artwork wasn't shown until the release because they didn't want to give away new units and models despite the game being announced a while before hand.

Could be right there, at least I hope so as it would be a shame if they Assassinorum Execution Forced it up by just loading the box with 'old' models. Sounds like it's a fair way off though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 24, 2017, 08:29:11 PM
Furthermore, some new, lighter armoured Stormcasts are due out soon:

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/SCE-armyshot.jpg)

Scout-types! Probably look better with alternate paintjobs, like the heavy infantry.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 24, 2017, 09:10:19 PM
Late to the party and wearing the same dress as another guest.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 24, 2017, 09:24:04 PM
Sigmarine Wolves? Or are they bear pelts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 24, 2017, 09:50:41 PM
Quote from: beefcake on January 24, 2017, 09:24:04 PM
Sigmarine Wolves? Or are they bear pelts.

Quote
These swift and deadly warriors are a new type of Stormcast Eternal – rangers, trackers and cavalrymen without compare. They are swift vengeance to the forces of Chaos, and the outriders and scouts of Sigmar’s armies. The models that are on the way make for an imposing army (and you may recognise a little piece of their kit from a previous Rumour Engine…).

The sleeker armour of these hunters allows for more dynamic miniatures compared to the heavy-hitters found in many Stormcast Eternal battlelines. They also have a much more feral appearance, draped in furs and pelts, and feeling much more like an army that is at home in the wide realms, rather than a fresh new arrival from Azyr (as the Stormcasts were when we were first introduced to them).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 24, 2017, 10:41:09 PM
So space wolves for AoS  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on January 24, 2017, 11:47:22 PM
I'm sure "Shadows over Hammerhal" is an early Bathory album... o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: N.C.S.E on January 25, 2017, 06:43:11 AM
Although GW priced me out long ago - I always had fond memories for the massive battles with all the classic fantasy stuff tucked in willy-nilly.

But the new Age of Sigmar stuff is just... ugh... :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on January 25, 2017, 07:07:13 AM
Their armour is sleeker than the earlier eternals but the thought of these guys doing anything other than stomping through the woods (and defoliating it) is laughable.  They aren't your dad's harriers and the poor deer will never see them coming :) .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 25, 2017, 08:45:27 AM
The thing about the new furry goldmarines is that they already have a lot of models released compared to everything else. I would much rather have seen more things for those armies that have fewer models (and which are more restricted  in variety if you want to stick to their strict theme - the fire slayer dwarfs, the various undead, the Sylvaneth, etc., or even releases for a new armies (elves, dwarves, humans...). :?

So regardless on my own feelings of heavily-armoured golden warriors tramping about "stealthily" by dint of wearing furs (sorta like the Necrons that wear the skin of flayed humans...  ::)), I think a different release would have been much more fun.

That said, I do rather like the Gryph Hounds. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on January 25, 2017, 09:15:51 AM
And here's me thinking that nothing could ever be more boring than month after month of slightly different coloured space marines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 25, 2017, 11:06:30 AM
Quote from: Nord on January 25, 2017, 09:15:51 AM
And here's me thinking that nothing could ever be more boring than month after month of slightly different coloured space marines.

There's a lot of false memory going on when it comes to the Stormcast releases. I think last year saw the release of the Knight Questor from Silver Tower, the massive Stardrake and the Dracothian Guard set. I could be wrong but I think everything else was from 2015 so that's just three miniatures releases for the gold guys last year. But of course it's just month in month out Stormcast releases and nothing else.  ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 25, 2017, 11:40:25 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on January 25, 2017, 11:06:30 AM
There's a lot of false memory going on when it comes to the Stormcast releases. I think last year saw the release of the Knight Questor from Silver Tower, the massive Stardrake and the Dracothian Guard set. I could be wrong but I think everything else was from 2015 so that's just three miniatures releases for the gold guys last year. But of course it's just month in month out Stormcast releases and nothing else.  ;)


To be fair, a lot of armies/sub-factions are still awaiting their first Battletome, whereas the Stormies are about to be on their third Battletome.

I totally understand GW's desire to have a "Fantasy Space Marine" faction in their new game, and I do like 40k Space Marines as much as the next guy, but I also find that other factions tend not to get the same level of attention as a result of the over-focus on Space Marines (and that honestly gets pretty stale).

The best thing for AoS recently (IMO, of course) are the Tzeentch releases, and I can only hope that they will see a few more units/models come out to really establish them as a varied force.

I am also looking forward to seeing updated and expanded Slaaneshi models for both sci-fi and fantasy (as Khorne and Nurgle tend to get the spotlight much more often for obvious gameplay-related reasons).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on January 25, 2017, 11:52:05 AM
Not keen on the new lighter armoured types, the hounds are nice but really I have no use for them
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 25, 2017, 12:15:59 PM
Yep, I guess the Stormcast are to AOS, just as Space Marines are to 40k. So they are going to get a lot more love.

I'll probably get the new sets but I am really interested in what the new class of cavalry will look like. Personally, I'm not really into gigantic miniatures though I have to admit that Stardrake and the Dracothian Guard look awesome.

And I also don't like the gazillion multi-part kits. For me, I'm happy with various complete bodies with different arms, weapons, heads, etc., but when you have to glue together legs to 2 piece torsos... I think they have gone too far.

All in all though, I'm pretty happy with the direction of GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 25, 2017, 01:05:06 PM
Why not just release Ram-Man, She-Ra and Skeletor and be done with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 25, 2017, 01:45:13 PM
Well, I'd buy those, even as multipart plastic kits  :D.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on January 25, 2017, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on January 25, 2017, 11:06:30 AM
There's a lot of false memory going on when it comes to the Stormcast releases. I think last year saw the release of the Knight Questor from Silver Tower, the massive Stardrake and the Dracothian Guard set. I could be wrong but I think everything else was from 2015 so that's just three miniatures releases for the gold guys last year. But of course it's just month in month out Stormcast releases and nothing else.  ;)



Fair enough, though I meant that I find 40k a bit tedious because it's just more marines all the time. Now, it's happening to fantasy too and that's become tedious. Yawnfest for me, I have moved on, shouldn't really be here moaning about it. But hey, seems obligatory to whinge on a forum, so wtf.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 25, 2017, 02:23:54 PM
Quote from: Nord on January 25, 2017, 01:49:05 PM
Fair enough, though I meant that I find 40k a bit tedious because it's just more marines all the time. Now, it's happening to fantasy too and that's become tedious. Yawnfest for me, I have moved on, shouldn't really be here moaning about it. But hey, seems obligatory to whinge on a forum, so wtf.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/15/b3/0d/15b30d6fef0fe2a27706850452ef5420.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on January 25, 2017, 02:32:44 PM
And yet you have responded.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 25, 2017, 02:55:13 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on January 25, 2017, 01:45:13 PM
Well, I'd buy those, even as multipart plastic kits  :D.

I think they would sell pretty well!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 25, 2017, 02:56:50 PM
Check out this terrain piece:

(http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tgacommunity/monthly_2016_12/large.IMG_0983.JPG.cdf268af4d3a57305f83a07b4f508ffd.JPG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on January 25, 2017, 03:16:32 PM
WOAH! That is brilliant! How steady is it? But I love it! Reminds me of the inginuity of things like the old Necromunda tower (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kaLzjA70mZc/T4iNar9-47I/AAAAAAAAA2k/k6nEl-B8ipk/s1600/Necromunda+Terrain.JPG).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 25, 2017, 03:32:49 PM
I think that'd be neat for a display...or even more so if it had several layers.  I think (as is the case with a lot of set-piece boards) the replayability would be very limiting. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 25, 2017, 04:28:38 PM
Quite a few examples crop up on Google image searches: link (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wargame+terrain+floating+islands&biw=752&bih=275&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiht8GD1t3RAhXjBcAKHcIxB9oQ_AUIBigB).

I think they look quite fun, and I guess the floating islands can be moved around like any other terrain for variety (at least, if they are designed/set up that way).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 25, 2017, 05:18:17 PM
Would make a great game, with portals from 1 island to the other, of course every time a random transportation  :D.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 25, 2017, 06:10:32 PM
I understand the new releases for sigmarites. They are a new faction. Other factions already have armies you can buy.
Edit: Autocorrect put in forecast, not sigmarites.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on January 25, 2017, 10:04:08 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 25, 2017, 01:05:06 PM
Why not just release Ram-Man, She-Ra and Skeletor and be done with it.

Ha!

A while back, while making the kids' Halloween masks, I watched a documentary on steroid abuse. It contained an interesting point about the size and shape of action figures over recent decades. The filmmaker showed how GI Joe (or the equivalent) had gone from a lean, muscular, fit-looking chap to a grotesquely swollen parody.

I do think the parallel trend in miniatures is a bit of a shame. Some recent GW releases are taking it almost beyond parody. As an example, I really like the paintwork on these Sigmarines (http://www.exprofundis.com/stormcast-eternals-of-the-immortal-tribunal/)- it's a great idea, really well executed. And I like the opposing Malal force (http://www.exprofundis.com/slaves-darkness-chaos-warriors-malal/) just as much or more. But look at the bare-chested Malal warriors - despite the superb colour scheme and conversions, those torsos are just ridiculous.

The recent Tzeentch acolytes were another case in point - all ludicrously buff. It's particularly strange, because one terrific thing about the Warhammer universes has been the sense of wretchedness that John Blanche et al. are so brilliant at conveying. And all those superb modellers and painters who do the likes of the Iron Sleet, Convertorum and Ex Profundis blogs are so good at capturing it. But the recent crop of models really do seem to be taking their nod from He-Man and Skeleton rather than from all the great illustrations that Blanche & co. have done to create the Warhammer universes.

The miniatures now seem to be in a kind of (upper) arms race: the orcs already have arms as thick as a man's waist, so the chaos acolytes have to be even more ripped, and the fully blown chaos warriors get physiques that are like a child's drawing of a superhero.

That said, I think the female Eldar with the cat is terrific (I'd be tempted to replace the big sword with a small, elegant pistol), and those griffon-dog things are nicely Moorcockian.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 25, 2017, 10:17:04 PM
I think I would suggest Blizzard's World of Warcraft, followed closely by Wizards of the Coast adopting a video game driven aesthetic as the precedent for the over the top Herculean look.

Add a contemporary Neo-baroque aspect to the mix (emphasis on split second time, a la The Matrix and derivatives) and a convoluted sense of design and space (see the end credits to The Avengers 2), and there you have current GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 25, 2017, 10:26:34 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on January 25, 2017, 10:04:08 PM
It's particularly strange, because one terrific thing about the Warhammer universes has been the sense of wretchedness that John Blanche et al. are so brilliant at conveying. And all those superb modellers and painters who do the likes of the Iron Sleet, Convertorum and Ex Profundis blogs are so good at capturing it.

Wretchedness ... you've got it exactly. Like they're all in a dystopian Discworld universe. Don't get me wrong, there's a place for the bodybuilder models - it's traditional for barbarian fighters and such. But it shouldn't be the norm or what's the point?   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on January 26, 2017, 03:02:25 AM
Visually that terrain piece looks pretty cool.  For play-ability it might run a little flat with upstairs/downstairs really breaking up LoS and creating compartmentalized combats.  I wonder if breaking up the large islands into smaller stepped platforms (three rather than two?) might help with that by establishing a middle ground that could be contested from either the first or third tier.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 26, 2017, 06:31:11 AM
 

Actually I am primarily wondering if the the lake slides back to reveal a Thunderbird style launch bay underneath.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 26, 2017, 12:18:56 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 25, 2017, 10:26:34 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on January 25, 2017, 10:04:08 PM
It's particularly strange, because one terrific thing about the Warhammer universes has been the sense of wretchedness that John Blanche et al. are so brilliant at conveying.

Wretchedness ... you've got it exactly. Like they're all in a dystopian Discworld universe. Don't get me wrong, there's a place for the bodybuilder models - it's traditional for barbarian fighters and such. But it shouldn't be the norm or what's the point?   

I agree.

It's one of the reasons that I simply can't bear the plastic IG models (besides the travesty that are the Catachan plastic sculpts) - they are Space Marine sized, and the added bulk exaggerates and highlights the distorted "heroic" proportions all the more.

I don't mind the Khornate barbarians being very buff (it suits them), but I was surprised at seeing the Tzeentchian Acolytes looking similarly-buff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on January 26, 2017, 12:22:27 PM
There's some hand-waving that says fat merchants and skinny clerks are warped into musclebound hulks when the cults go to war, so it sounds like the background writers were equally surprised at the size of the Acolytes!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 26, 2017, 02:23:04 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on January 26, 2017, 12:22:27 PM
There's some hand-waving that says fat merchants and skinny clerks are warped into musclebound hulks when the cults go to war, so it sounds like the background writers were equally surprised at the size of the Acolytes!

Being a Chaos god, I'm surprised there isn't one guy whose head turns into a teapot.

"Bob, you can stay, uh, back at camp and serve refreshments... don't nod, you're spilling it everywhere!".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: N.C.S.E on January 26, 2017, 03:33:06 PM
Surely the idea of chaos and the idea of tea are two diametrically opposed concepts!   ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 26, 2017, 05:28:50 PM
It'a Chaos tea, full of Bob's brain... urr juices fluid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 26, 2017, 06:02:46 PM
Agree about the over-buffness and in fact the whole "This has turned from grimness (actually, wretchedness is the perfect word; thanks, Hobgoblin) into World of Warcraft and hyper power superhero type stuff. At first I utterly hated it because the Old World meant a lot to me; it was the world I immersed myself in growing up as a weirdo teen and on into being a weirdo adult. I also really liked the grittiness of the setting and was way more interested in how a conscripted farmhand managed to try and survive in a battle that featured horrible Chaos Trolls than I was about mighty heroes and powerful wizards.

I started to look at AoS and its intense and O.T.T aesthetic as a bit like the ridiculousness of Power Metal album covers, with stupid motivations behind everything and an almost anything-goes backdrop. Ultimately I think there is a lot of fun in that, and some of the models are awesome for what they are (rather than what they aren't) but if the look doesn't appeal and you (like me in MOST cases) need a decent setting to really get nice and immersed then it'll probably never quite be for you. The discussion in here has reminded me of my love for the Old World in comparison to the new stuff.

And yes, I KNOW that the Old World hasn't really gone anywhere and I can still play games set within it if I want, but there IS something nice about a game having official channels for new releases, new expansions and campaigns and such. I sort of envy those who are REALLY into the new setting as GW really are bringing out some cool stuff for it. The new Warhammer Quest looks to be exploring a more traditional dungeony adventure, and they've already had one narrative-shaking campaign since AoS came out. Being a part of that even just passively is fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on January 26, 2017, 11:21:14 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on January 26, 2017, 02:23:04 PM
Being a Chaos god, I'm surprised there isn't one guy whose head turns into a teapot.

"Bob, you can stay, uh, back at camp and serve refreshments... don't nod, you're spilling it everywhere!".

First time I've really laughed out loud at a forum comment that I can remember!

Regarding the "buff" thing. It's not just in miniatures, it's popular culture generally. Starting with Conan you can draw a line all the way to "Fight Club", through "ripped" Calvin Klein models through the Spartans of "300" to today. I've sort of recently got into fitness and you go to look at cardio routines on YouTube and they're being performed by what look like shirtless bodybuilders, totally absurd.

Edit: there's this too- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 27, 2017, 12:29:10 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on January 26, 2017, 11:21:14 PM
First time I've really laughed out loud at a forum comment that I can remember!

Regarding the "buff" thing. It's not just in miniatures, it's popular culture generally. Starting with Conan you can draw a line all the way to "Fight Club", through "ripped" Calvin Klein models through the Spartans of "300" to today. I've sort of recently got into fitness and you go to look at cardio routines on YouTube and they're being performed by what look like shirtless bodybuilders, totally absurd.

Edit: there's this too- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus

Helen mirren recentley said something similar about the state of men in hollywood. That is to say that 30 years ago a hero might be buff, might be toned, but he was normal, human looking. Your Arnies and such were the exception rather than the rule, and funny guys like woody allen weren't expected to also be sculpted gods.
Skip forward and almost every male actor is by default a sculpted hero like being regardless of context.
Shows like Game of thrones have managed to actually avoid it, but in big budget films it seems that every single character,both male and female has to be beyond peak physical form to the point of caricature.
Now you have designers who aren't referring to films like Excalibur and krull, but the new conan and 300 films for their high fantasy sword and sorcery, so this trend is going to be absorbed. (And i say this as a 22 year old art student who works alongside these same designers, not a crotchity old man.(no offence ;) ) )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 27, 2017, 01:43:13 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 27, 2017, 01:25:04 AM
Ok, not on the topic of age of ziggy. I have been playing Mordheim the computer game online with other people.

OMFG......it is so damn cool! The best 2 player turn based game I have ever played. Me and my gaming bud have been having nothing but ultra fun with it. Having got in on this with the beta , this updated and balanced final version is just a treat. With a human opponent playing against you it is elevated into the realm of 'beyond awesome.'

The best description I can give is, it is like you are playing minis with all the paperwork sorted out for you and a flawless hidden movement system in place.

Anyways if people have the game and are looking to kick it up a level with a human opponents. Or they want to get the game for some online wargaming then we should form a casual league.

We play on Steam too.

You'll be happy to know the makers of the game have announced a necromunda game using similar mechanics then? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 27, 2017, 03:06:56 AM
You've caught my interest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 27, 2017, 04:57:54 AM
Necromunda, sorry mate. Don't have Mordheim online just yet, although I did buy Vermintide on the Steam sale recently and need to give that a go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 27, 2017, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on January 26, 2017, 02:23:04 PM
Being a Chaos god, I'm surprised there isn't one guy whose head turns into a teapot.

"Bob, you can stay, uh, back at camp and serve refreshments... don't nod, you're spilling it everywhere!".

From The Perry Bible Fellowship:

(http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF136-Super_League.jpg)


All we need now is for the GW designers to be inspired by (but not influenced, and especially not as a result of seeing anybody else's work ever) this comic strip and introduce a new Chaos god in AoS.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on January 27, 2017, 09:26:40 AM
Quote from: nic-e on January 27, 2017, 12:29:10 AM
(And i say this as a 22 year old art student who works alongside these same designers, not a crotchity old man.(no offence ;) ) )


To be fair I'm only 33!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 27, 2017, 09:43:40 AM
Quote from: nic-e on January 27, 2017, 12:29:10 AM
Skip forward and almost every male actor is by default a sculpted hero like being regardless of context.
Shows like Game of thrones have managed to actually avoid it, but in big budget films it seems that every single character,both male and female has to be beyond peak physical form to the point of caricature.

I'm a rugby player (got an away game tomorrow in the valleys actually) and the sort of body shapes on show in the changing room would surprise you. Some of the fittest and strongest players have very ordinary looking physiques and a good few of the gym-bunnies struggle with the physicality on the pitch. I always recall the flabby fella Bruce Lee was sparring with at the start of 'Enter the Dragon', flinging himself around like a rare one. Gives hope to us all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 27, 2017, 11:16:11 AM
Quote from: Cubs on January 27, 2017, 09:43:40 AM
I'm a rugby player (got an away game tomorrow in the valleys actually) and the sort of body shapes on show in the changing room would surprise you. Some of the fittest and strongest players have very ordinary looking physiques and a good few of the gym-bunnies struggle with the physicality on the pitch. I always recall the flabby fella Bruce Lee was sparring with at the start of 'Enter the Dragon', flinging himself around like a rare one. Gives hope to us all.

I can believe it. As I say, the images that are trickling into the inspiration pool now are not of real strong people but of an already fantastical standard. When you start the the only way to go is the up. That's why the new khorne minis have abs on their abs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Leifr Eiríksson on January 27, 2017, 11:48:24 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 27, 2017, 01:25:04 AM
Ok, not on the topic of age of ziggy. I have been playing Mordheim the computer game online with other people.

OMFG......it is so damn cool! The best 2 player turn based game I have ever played. Me and my gaming bud have been having nothing but ultra fun with it. Having got in on this with the beta , this updated and balanced final version is just a treat. With a human opponent playing against you it is elevated into the realm of 'beyond awesome.'

The best description I can give is, it is like you are playing minis with all the paperwork sorted out for you and a flawless hidden movement system in place.

Anyways if people have the game and are looking to kick it up a level with a human opponents. Or they want to get the game for some online wargaming then we should form a casual league.

We play on Steam too.

Have they surmounted all of the original problems at launch? I recall it being a bit of a disaster to be honest!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 27, 2017, 01:18:20 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 27, 2017, 01:13:01 PM
Yeah, It is a solid game now. We just had a game of Witch Hunters vs Undead. Super tactical, heaps of twists and turns and nail biting finish.

Highlights included me having one of my Ghouls set up away from the rest of the warband and then infiltrate in through the rear areas and steal the witch hunters holy shrine from their loot wagon.

Perfect heist only spoiled by a fanatic who just happened to be in the neighbourhood. He sorted things out by popping the end of a heavy flail through the poor creatures head just before it could get away in among a tangle of ruined houses. (he never would have found me once I was in that rats nest.)

Once people get the hang of the game and realise it is not a good idea just to headlong rush into a mass brawl, it is a whole new experience.

Damn... I may have to look more into that now.  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on January 27, 2017, 03:28:12 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 27, 2017, 09:43:40 AM
I'm a rugby player (got an away game tomorrow in the valleys actually) and the sort of body shapes on show in the changing room would surprise you. Some of the fittest and strongest players have very ordinary looking physiques and a good few of the gym-bunnies struggle with the physicality on the pitch.

Yes. It's always the apparently undersized front-rowers that you have to watch out for. Over the years, I played rugby with a few guys whose gym work was primarily bodybuilding (rather than just getting stronger) and who consciously followed diets to create a lean, "vascular" look. They were all prone to severe bruising and were
 frequently injured - just not enough padding! There's also certainly a phenomenon where some people are much, much stronger than they look - this can be natural or the result of low-rep weight training (the opposite of the bodybuilding approach). And "old-man strength" (which anyone who's played club rugby will have encountered) is a real thing - something to do with shortening tendons and better leverage, if I remember correctly.

Archaeological evidence (e.g. from the Repton find of Viking corpses or from the Towton battlefield) does show that medieval warriors were very heavily muscled, with the same sort of bone spurs that are found on people who do a lot of weight training. But they were very unlikely to be "ripped" like a bodybuilder following a special diet - just think of all that mead and ale! And - and this is where a lot of fantasy designs go wrong, I think - however strong they were, they weren't doing the bench press. Even early-20th-century strongmen/bodybuilders (Saxon and Sandow) didn't have the disproportionate pecs that can only be achieved through horizontal pressing. Lifting weights overhead was the big thing. But a lot of miniature designers seem to reckon on a very early development of the bench press in their pseudo-medieval milieu.

I'd argue that a lot of older fantasy miniatures already factored in appropriately heavily muscled physiques. The Perry norsemen (now the Foundry Vikings) look about right, allowing for "heroic scale". But current trends - and I think those Tzeentch acolytes are a case in point - take it to a bizarre extreme.

Quote from: nic-e on January 27, 2017, 12:29:10 AM
Now you have designers who aren't referring to films like Excalibur and krull, but the new conan and 300 films for their high fantasy sword and sorcery, so this trend is going to be absorbed. (And i say this as a 22 year old art student who works alongside these same designers, not a crotchity old man.(no offence ;) ) )

Good points! The interesting thing, though, is that there are counter-examples in popular culture - and they're actually the dominant ones. You mention Game of Thrones, but what about the Jackson Tolkien films? I'm no great fan of them, but they create a much more coherent and plausible vision of the fantastic than the campy 300 or the new (or old) Conan. And between them, they're clearly far more popular.

And there's a case in point: the LotR films' Uruk-hai, which were very unlike the book's descriptions, but were big, muscly sword-and-sorcery beasts that might have been more at home in a Conan adaptation. And, given that, very well done. But look at the miniatures based on them: they're convincingly done as big, burly beasts that might slip into the All Blacks back row, yet they don't look like action figures. And - this, I think is a key test for fantasy miniatures - they don't look absurd next to historical figures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 27, 2017, 04:03:31 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on January 27, 2017, 03:28:12 PM


Good points! The interesting thing, though, is that there are counter-examples in popular culture - and they're actually the dominant ones. You mention Game of Thrones, but what about the Jackson Tolkien films? I'm no great fan of them, but they create a much more coherent and plausible vision of the fantastic than the campy 300 or the new (or old) Conan. And between them, they're clearly far more popular.

And there's a case in point: the LotR films' Uruk-hai, which were very unlike the book's descriptions, but were big, muscly sword-and-sorcery beasts that might have been more at home in a Conan adaptation. And, given that, very well done. But look at the miniatures based on them: they're convincingly done as big, burly beasts that might slip into the All Blacks back row, yet they don't look like action figures. And - this, I think is a key test for fantasy miniatures - they don't look absurd next to historical figures.


A point well made and one i had thought of but didn't think to write out. There will always be exceptions of course, but I would argue that as game and media companies have to try harder to create recognisable setting to compete with each other the old fantasy tropes are being pushed aside in faour of the more animated styles we now see, because these are easier to imprint a house style onto. It's far easier to say "our aremour is this " when it's 8 foot tall bright purple and suspiciously shaped than if it's your standard gondorian plate and mail.

I'd also say that things like Lotr and GoT get away with it by being pre established low fantasy settings that had their image very much cemented by their fans before they were really absorbed into the mainstream consciousness, that is to say that 20 years ago most people had heard of lord of the rings but the only people who had a clear image of what everything looked like were the hardcore fans who had turned to myth and history for context, just as the writers did.

Plus we should remember that contemporary fantasy is building on top of this foundation, rather than parallel to it. In the same way contemporary art trends often arise out of a conceptual attempt to counter what came before or re-contextualise it through alteration and subversion, so fantasy literature and imagery will be doing the same.
I would argue that that was exactly how warhammer came to be.An invention of punk art students and writers who decided to take on boar the new counter tolkien fantasy of moorock and create a crippled tolkienesque world. That became the norm and you get games like warmachine that rebel against that norm with big ugly models and bright colours, games like warcraft that ramp up the brightness and size, and then a new generation of designers come into GW having absorbed media that was a reaction to their own original reactionary creation and a new reaction begins, this one an OVER EXTREME version of fantasy, where EVERYTHING is ramped up to 11, where the world isn't a twee magic land, it's an INFINITE REALM of GODS AND CELESTIAL POWER.

If the original GW team were starting out now with AOS,we'd be seeing it as a caricature of things like Warcraft, a punky side swipe at hyper fantasy tropes. The problem of course is that GW did really well by creating a pastiche that was as endearing as the elements it was subverting (probably due to it's working out of affection for its source material rather than it's contempt.) and now it has to create a sincere universe.

Don't get me wrong, I like AOS, I think it's a much better game, but i'm very much playing in my own worlds set somewhere loosely within their infinite realms.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on January 27, 2017, 04:18:43 PM
Quote from: nic-e on January 27, 2017, 04:03:31 PM
The problem of course is that GW did really well by creating a pastiche that was as endearing as the elements it was subverting (probably due to it's working out of affection for its source material rather than it's contempt.) and now it has to create a sincere universe.

Good analysis. I think the "sincere universe" point is key here. The original Warhammer scenarios took place against a very lightly sketched background (basically, "our world but a bit different, and throw in whatever you like") and were very tongue-in-cheek. Then the RPG took the material in a different direction - more sincere on one level, but still winking at another. But then, as the RPG faded and the wargame took off, the background became the foreground and restrictive at the same time. It's always good to remember that the earlier editions of Warhammer had systems for statting up whatever you cared to place on the table and actively encouraged the use of non-GW figures (even in 54mm!).

I suppose AOS is in some ways an extension of the more "sincere", restrictive background that characterised later editions of Warhammer - and slightly po-faced because of it. And, in the process, the inspiration seems to have drifted from Breughel and Rembrandt to 300 if not Tom of Finland (which makes the po-facedness all the stranger!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 27, 2017, 04:33:30 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on January 27, 2017, 04:18:43 PM
Good analysis. I think the "sincere universe" point is key here. The original Warhammer scenarios took place against a very lightly sketched background (basically, "our world but a bit different, and throw in whatever you like") and were very tongue-in-cheek. Then the RPG took the material in a different direction - more sincere on one level, but still winking at another. But then, as the RPG faded and the wargame took off, the background became the foreground and restrictive at the same time. It's always good to remember that the earlier editions of Warhammer had systems for statting up whatever you cared to place on the table and actively encouraged the use of non-GW figures (even in 54mm!).

I suppose AOS is in some ways an extension of the more "sincere", restrictive background that characterised later editions of Warhammer - and slightly po-faced because of it. And, in the process, the inspiration seems to have drifted from Breughel and Rembrandt to 300 if not Tom of Finland (which makes the po-facedness all the stranger!).

I think part of the reason is also the changing market. When warhammer came around it was aiming at the D&D players.Fantasy was, I am told, considered a little bit weird by the traditional wargamers of the time.If anything the game itself was as much a pastiche as the background, A tool used by many for serious strategy being put to use to make giants kick goblins like footballs.
Now that isn't the case, fantasy is the dominant norm and wargaming is no longer the closed off hobby of bored dads and retired generals.Taking the piss out of it,even in a loving way, just isn't going to bite anymore. anything overly tongue in cheek is going to be dismissed as not serious enough to be worthy of the attention by the vast majority.
Add on top the fact that games need a world to sell now. I can't tell you how many dead game systems there are at work that act as shelf filler, not because they are bad games (if anything it's some of the best rule sets that suffer) but because the world feels tacked on or like a standard cut and print setting. AOS has managed to over come this hurdle by sheer bulk, using the financial and historic weight of GW and the warhammer world to draw people in while the world is built around it.

I'd say games like Arceworld and Relicblade are closer to the attitude that birthed warhammer.Quirky , loose, a little bit punk (or indie i suppose would be the contemporary equivalent.) with some obvious jokes and sideways glances at the genre as a whole, but made out of a sincere love, one that is grounded in an understanding that the whole thing is a little bit weird and nerdy anyway so why take it too seriously. Give it 30 years, if the systems are still being played, They'll be taken alot more seriously and their worlds will be alot more rigid and humourless than they are now, not by design, but by the evolution of player expectation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on January 27, 2017, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on January 27, 2017, 04:18:43 PM
I suppose AOS is in some ways an extension of the more "sincere", restrictive background that characterised later editions of Warhammer - and slightly po-faced because of it. And, in the process, the inspiration seems to have drifted from Breughel and Rembrandt to 300 if not Tom of Finland (which makes the po-facedness all the stranger!).

I wouldn't project too much sincerity onto GW (they're clearly just having fun), nor would I call AoS background restrictive. The exact opposite in fact. It seems deliberately designed to allow GW and their players to insert whatever they want into the game, and no-one in GW is going to tell you 'you can't do that because of this background note'. Some players might, but GW never will; they just want you to buy their toys. Warhammer 40k will go the same way - the whole Eldar thing this month is just a background reason to allow gamers to buy whatever eldar figures they want, be it Craftworld, Dark or Harlequin. And there will be plenty of reasons why they could include figures from other ranges too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on January 27, 2017, 05:27:48 PM
(http://www.beastsofwar.com/age-of-sigmar/lordaquilor-leads-charge-age-sigmars-stormcast/)

Cor! Love that beastie!  :-*

Edit: pic not showing? http://www.beastsofwar.com/age-of-sigmar/lordaquilor-leads-charge-age-sigmars-stormcast/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on January 27, 2017, 05:36:57 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on January 27, 2017, 05:27:48 PM

Cor! Love that beastie!  :-*

Edit: pic not showing? http://www.beastsofwar.com/age-of-sigmar/lordaquilor-leads-charge-age-sigmars-stormcast/

Exactly! Po-faced?!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 27, 2017, 06:31:33 PM
"men of the free guild, BEHOLD MY MIGHTY CHICKEN!"

I love it. According to GW on facebook it's a wild beast of the realms tamed by the stormcasts to explore and scout, a nimble road runner compared to the stubby bulldog of the dracoth.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 27, 2017, 08:10:48 PM
"My steed is tireless in pursuit, fearless in battle and lays my breakfast egg every day without fail".

Love the model and the Gryph-hounds!  And the 40k Yvaine model needs to be a scheming Reverend Mother in some Imperial court...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 27, 2017, 08:53:30 PM
I like the new beastie (the rider still looks...awful) but the only thing I find odd is the choice of cracking colour scheme on the flanks.  Get that beastie some lotion!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 28, 2017, 04:13:15 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on January 27, 2017, 05:27:48 PM
Edit: pic not showing?

Here you go:

(http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tgacommunity/monthly_2017_01/Lord-Aquilor-500x452.jpg.436653c74164dc570fd4292d54b02dd7.jpg)

Makes me smile.

But then again... it would.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on January 28, 2017, 06:44:31 AM
You know, I never quite got into those AoS aesthetics despite some interesting aspects, but I really like that specific griffon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 28, 2017, 06:45:29 AM
More and more I think GW are trying to make an anime-themed game and just don't know how to do it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on January 28, 2017, 10:19:45 AM
BB Dwarfs already sold out?! Does anyone know GW's release strategy for BB?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on January 28, 2017, 10:38:48 AM
I like that griffon rider, real nice creature, the rider needs a head swap though, would look better bare headed
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 28, 2017, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on January 28, 2017, 06:45:29 AM
More and more I think GW are trying to make an anime-themed game and just don't know how to do it.

For me, this new world is far more dynamic and creative. I could never get into the old warhammer because, well, for example, Bretonnians were just medieval troops in a fantasy setting.

But now they are going to town with some really amazing (at least to me) concepts backed by superb miniatures.

With the General's Handbook folks now have a rule set for competitive gaming and from what I can see, they are moving away from the initial "skirmish" concept back to mass battles.

There is a nice web site devoted to the AoS which seems to be doing quite well... The Grand Alliance Community (http://www.tga.community/). If you have any interest in AoS, I think it is worth a visit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on January 28, 2017, 10:49:02 AM
Love this guy, in fact a demon army is really tempting from this range, except the cultists
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 28, 2017, 02:52:31 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on January 28, 2017, 10:49:02 AM
Love this guy, in fact a demon army is really tempting from this range, except the cultists

Where is the pic of the cultists? I went back a few pages and didn't see them. Just curious.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on January 28, 2017, 03:18:38 PM
These guys: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Kairic-Acolytes (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Kairic-Acolytes)

Obviously the aesthetics are a matter of taste, but for all that they're ridiculously exaggerated, inhuman and daft I reckon they're the best muscly dudes, multi-option kit GW have done, much improved over the Khorne equivalent. I think they could benefit from a less stark painting technique though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on January 28, 2017, 03:20:47 PM
I think I'm going to use artizan miniatures moors with some other bits for my human elements, but really love the daemons from this range
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 28, 2017, 05:58:23 PM
I think the entire Tzeentch release set is pretty fantastic so far (both AoS and 40K).  It's all quite cohesive and well done.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 29, 2017, 10:09:43 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on January 28, 2017, 03:18:38 PM
These guys: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Kairic-Acolytes (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Kairic-Acolytes)

Obviously the aesthetics are a matter of taste, but for all that they're ridiculously exaggerated, inhuman and daft I reckon they're the best muscly dudes, multi-option kit GW have done, much improved over the Khorne equivalent. I think they could benefit from a less stark painting technique though.

Thanks

Quote
They walk amongst the unsuspecting, remaining covert, waiting patiently until the correct time to strike.


How? They're bigger than Arnold Schwartzenagger, and wear face masks à la 50 Shades of Tzeentch.

They do look tough though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on January 29, 2017, 10:58:24 AM
To be fair, everyone looks like Swarzenegger in AoS, so they'll blend right in.

I actually like the models though. Not the first thing I'd think of for Tzeench, but I like the desisgn of them.
Several of this new range (such as the sorcerer above) are quite nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 29, 2017, 02:31:06 PM
Quote from: grant on January 29, 2017, 10:09:43 AM
Thanks


How? They're bigger than Arnold Schwartzenagger, and wear face masks à la 50 Shades of Tzeentch.

They do look tough though.

In fluff terms they wait in their normal bodies until the right time, then they call on the power of change to swell their bodies. It isn't even clear if thy actually are strong, or if it's all an illusion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on January 29, 2017, 06:07:19 PM
Quote from: nic-e on January 29, 2017, 02:31:06 PM
In fluff terms they wait in their normal bodies until the right time, then they call on the power of change to swell their bodies. It isn't even clear if thy actually are strong, or if it's all an illusion.

Oh, they become battle-warped?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on January 30, 2017, 11:39:16 AM
Then there is this...
http://www.peta.org.uk/media/news-releases/peta-asks-games-workshop-ban-fur-warhammer-characters/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 30, 2017, 11:59:33 AM
It's OK - they're actually the furry pelts of chaos renegades who were trapped for days in crushing, steel-jawed traps.

Space Wolves love their Fenrisian Wolves, and often feed them on heretics, mutants and dry cleaner servitors who did a bad job getting the mead out of their robes.

No animals harmed at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mahwell skel on January 30, 2017, 12:54:30 PM
And yet no mention of the Necron flayed ones wearing the skins of humans!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on January 30, 2017, 01:12:39 PM
This world is truly getting more insane by the minute
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: N.C.S.E on January 30, 2017, 02:00:59 PM
Uhh... what?

There's logic in there somewhere. I cannot understand where though...

"Indeed, nothing on the bloody battlefields of Warhammer’s war-torn
world could match the horrific reality that foxes, minks, rabbits, and other
living beings experience at the hands of the fur trade. "

Huh?

I'd call this an April Fool's joke if it were that time of year... But this... this is just sad...

Surely PETA has more effective uses of its time than going after manufacturers of lead soldiers.

I'm no fan of GW these days, but for what is ultimately a fantasy and sci-fi made up world this is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 30, 2017, 02:41:46 PM


I would have thought the pure sable paintbrushes might be more pertinent - lets just keep that to ourselves?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 30, 2017, 03:09:11 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 30, 2017, 02:41:46 PM

I would have thought the pure sable paintbrushes might be more pertinent - lets just keep that to ourselves?


It's the death of all those Static-Grass Bears for their lovely green bristles that makes me saddest of all...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mahwell skel on January 30, 2017, 03:36:28 PM
Teddy bear thatch!  :'(

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on January 30, 2017, 04:49:56 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 30, 2017, 02:56:51 PM
When did everyone decide no one but them has a sense of humour and a working brain?

Your job is to highlight your organization's belief that wearing dead animal skins is bad. You fire off a tongue in cheek letter to the boss of a toy company that leans towards over the top machorama stuff.

The nerdsphere that consists of buyers of said machorama erupts in a blather about it. Message received, mission successful. All pretty funny too. 1 for the letter itself 2 for the post letter knicker twisting from the peanut gallery. Overall I give it 7.5/10



Meh, they've been doing it for years. I remember them petitioning Judas Priest to change their song to "Hell bent for Pleather". Same schtick but for every 100 people that are made aware of PETA's cause 99% will think they're sanctimonious pricks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on January 30, 2017, 05:17:33 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 30, 2017, 02:56:51 PM
<snip>

Because making your organisation seem to be the bunch of pushy ecotossers that everyone already thinks you are is a great idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 30, 2017, 05:34:44 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 30, 2017, 02:56:51 PM
When did everyone decide no one but them has a sense of humour and a working brain?

Your job is to highlight your organization's belief that wearing dead animal skins is bad. You fire off a tongue in cheek letter to the boss of a toy company that leans towards over the top machorama stuff.

The nerdsphere that consists of buyers of said machorama erupts in a blather about it. Message received, mission successful. All pretty funny too. 1 for the letter itself 2 for the post letter knicker twisting from the peanut gallery. Overall I give it 7.5/10



I completely agree its most likely a bit of fun and humour on their side (PETA) and its got them some exposure and awareness - like their nude protests/banner carrying - so good for them  :)

But I want some fun to  :D

Me doing nude stuff behind a banner would not be fun for anyone including me so...

Quote from: Andrew May on January 30, 2017, 04:49:56 PM
Meh, they've been doing it for years. I remember them petitioning Judas Priest to change their song to "Hell bent for Pleather". Same schtick but for every 100 people that are made aware of PETA's cause 99% will think they're sanctimonious pricks.

As I am part of the miniature painting 1% (not the wealthy 1%) of the population, not too worried about what the other 99%  are thinking of them (PETA).

Can we get back to the GW releases now?

Am liking a lot of the Tzeentch stuff

Not enough to be able to afford much of it but liking it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on January 30, 2017, 06:45:26 PM
I hope they don't find out how I work Sooty.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on January 30, 2017, 08:19:43 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on January 28, 2017, 04:13:15 AM
Here you go:

(http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tgacommunity/monthly_2017_01/Lord-Aquilor-500x452.jpg.436653c74164dc570fd4292d54b02dd7.jpg)

Makes me smile.

But then again... it would.

"Squaaawk!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 30, 2017, 09:33:54 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 30, 2017, 09:19:23 PM
Which brings us back to

"The nerdsphere that consists of buyers of said machorama erupts in a blather about it."

PETA figured out the vast majority of wargamers already think (possibly correctly  ;) ) they are sanctimonious pricks, it is not about making wargamers change their ways. It's about everyone else laughing at the grumpy old fur loving men having conniptions about being told what to do with their toy soldiers.

Which makes your reaction the exact reaction they were aiming for with this perfect troll. I am bumping my score up to 8 for PETA.

THe only way the hobby 'wins' this is by ignoring PETA's shenanigans completely.



Which is absolutely what GW will do because GW weathered the storm of nerdrage that was the age of sigmar release so they sure as hell don't care about this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 30, 2017, 09:46:50 PM
I would have responded to their email with the following:

"To those concerned,

Feel free to play beastmen, and take revenge!  You can get the following to start you off..."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on January 30, 2017, 09:57:30 PM
@Scurv, I'll refer you to my opening word "Meh"....
but of course in your hurry to always be right you might have misssed that. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 31, 2017, 04:51:41 AM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on January 30, 2017, 06:45:26 PM
I hope they don't find out how I work Sooty.

 lol Best post in a long time!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on January 31, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
I had a look at theat PETA thing. My favourite bit was from one of the comments below:

"There is nothing in 40k that is a good example of life choices."

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 31, 2017, 01:37:30 PM
Joining the Gryph-hounds, the Vangurad Hunters and Lord Aquilor are Steel Eagles and Stormcast Vanguard Auxiliaries mounted on Gryph-Chargers...  o_o

I think I want them all!

If I'm going to stick to my pledge of not buying until I have finished what I already have painted... I need to get my butt in gear.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on January 31, 2017, 01:43:35 PM
The pricing of the new furry Stormcast is quite interesting - £37.50 for 10. When the Stormcast Liberators were first released they were £30 for 5. Now those are being repackaged into packs of 10 as well, though the price has not been announced.

Unfortunately for everyone else, GW still haven't acknowledged the drastic change in the value to GBP, so the same furry Stormcast box is 50 Euro or $60.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on January 31, 2017, 01:53:39 PM
Yep,

Appears they are repackaging into 10 Liberators, Judicators and Van-Guard Hunters per box (6 for Prosecutors).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 31, 2017, 05:50:31 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on January 31, 2017, 01:53:39 PM
Yep,

Appears they are repackaging into 10 Liberators, Judicators and Van-Guard Hunters per box (6 for Prosecutors).

I hope that they don't change the minimum squad sizes in the GHB though (like they did with the... er, Paladins was it?) - a lot of people with the Start Collecting sets are going to be rather upset otherwise that they have a number of very under-sized squads.


Quote from: Ray Rivers on January 28, 2017, 04:13:15 AM
(http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/tgacommunity/monthly_2017_01/Lord-Aquilor-500x452.jpg.436653c74164dc570fd4292d54b02dd7.jpg)

I rather like that - the bird especially (although I feel ambivalent about the rider). Nice colourful paintjob too! :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on January 31, 2017, 06:46:10 PM
I think the big griffin and that floaty, four-armed wizard/demon thing are great. The crossbow-pistols are pretty awful, though - they don't even look like they have a slot for the string. And if bolt guns were good enough for Warhammer amazons, why not just give these armoured chaps some?

(http://www.solegends.com/citcat1984comp2/citcomp2001-03.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 02, 2017, 01:13:23 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on January 31, 2017, 05:50:31 PM
I hope that they don't change the minimum squad sizes in the GHB though (like they did with the... er, Paladins was it?) - a lot of people with the Start Collecting sets are going to be rather upset otherwise that they have a number of very under-sized squads.

I don't think folks who want to engage in Match Play will mind given the amount of minis needed to put together a 2000 pt army.

But yea, hopefully they won't change the squad sizes soon, however, when GHB2 comes out, it wouldn't surprise me if squad sizes change.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 02, 2017, 01:44:50 PM
Check this out (2000 pt Stormcast Army) posted on Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/29/top-5-lists-from-blood-glory/):

Quote
LEADERS
Knight Azyros (100)
– General
– Artefact: Quicksilver Potion
– Command Trait : Reckless

Knight Azyros (100)
– Artefact: Quicksilver Potion

UNITS
Liberators x 5 (100)
– Warhammer & Shield
– Grandblades: 1

Liberators x 5 (100)
– Warhammer & Shield
– Grandblades: 1

Liberators x 5 (100)
– Warhammers
– Grandhammers: 1

Prosecutors with Celestial Hammers x 6 (200)
– Celestial Hammers
– Grandaxe: 2

Judicators x 5 (160)
– Skybolt Bows
– Shockbolt Bow: 1

Judicators x 5 (160)
– Skybolt Bows
– Shockbolt Bow: 1

Paladin Protectors x 10 (400)
– Starsoul Mace: 4

Paladin Retributors x 10 (440)
– Starsoul Mace: 4

BATTALIONS
Warrior Brotherhood (140)

WOUNDS: 132

TOTAL POINTS: 2000 / 2000

And the photo of his army:

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Ben-Johnson-army.jpg)

How nice is that!  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 02, 2017, 01:55:54 PM
Is that pre-heresy Crimson Fists?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 02, 2017, 02:16:03 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on February 02, 2017, 01:55:54 PM
Is that pre-heresy Crimson Fists?  ;)

Close: Black Templars release confirmed in 7th Edition!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 02, 2017, 03:43:05 PM
That's a really nice army.

For those interested in AoS there's a great fan supplement making the rounds rigth now called hinterlands. It's about 6 pages of add on rules to make AOS into a skirmish campaign game in the vein of necromunda. (the guy that made it has done AMAZING work on it, to the point that alot of people thought it was an official GW leak.)

http://www.tga.community/files/file/19-hinterlands-skirmish-campaigns-in-the-mortal-realms-by-sam-james/


It's well worth a look for anyone looking for a solid skirmish system since the AOS rules are free, the generals handbook points are readily available online, the warscrolls are free and this supplement is free.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 03, 2017, 12:43:29 PM
Robot Gullyman and black Dark Angels in 40k?

http://i.imgur.com/mJvgwWp.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/mJvgwWp.jpg)

Looks a lot more bad ass than the Forgeworld Heresy version of him.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on February 03, 2017, 01:22:10 PM
Good ol' Rowboat Girlyman.
Is he supposed to have the Emperor's sword there or something? I think the big man himself was the only one with one of those.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 03, 2017, 01:22:21 PM
I think Gullyman looks pretty bad...but it'll be interesting to see what follows. (Cypher on his right - fallen angels behind?)

(http://i.imgur.com/gy7CyUm.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 03, 2017, 03:06:34 PM
There's also a new GK/Ordo Malleus Inquisitor at the front right of the pic too. ;)

I like RG, but I feel the trim around the edges of his armour look a bit too... Chaos-y?

Hopefully the Lion wakes up in time:

(http://www.wobblymodelsyndrome.com/uploads/3/3/4/2/3342427/623071_orig.jpg)
From "Wobbly Model Syndrome (http://www.wobblymodelsyndrome.com/)".


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 03, 2017, 04:19:27 PM
40k keeps getting better and better. Good riddance Alan Merrit, holding the timeline for so long really stagnated the flow of minis. I was bored stiff of GW two years ago but they've just gone from strength to strength recently. Im glad I don't collect the modern figures as I'd be bankrupt and divorced by now!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 03, 2017, 04:21:45 PM
I'm all for moving the story forward.  I've found the new minis very hit-or-miss, but that's been the case for a while.  I think Gullyman looks pretty awful as a miniature, but I'm sure they'll sell bajillions of them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 03, 2017, 06:59:36 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/03/gathering-storm-iii-rise-of-the-primarch-first-look/

Confirmed by GW. Also a very funny warhammer TV video on their facebook page about the internet. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 04, 2017, 12:07:19 PM
Quote from: nic-e on February 03, 2017, 06:59:36 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/03/gathering-storm-iii-rise-of-the-primarch-first-look/

Confirmed by GW. Also a very funny warhammer TV video on their facebook page about the internet. :)

Funnily enough I saw the march issue of WD on Ebay only the other day!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 05, 2017, 11:52:13 AM
Quote from: nic-e on February 03, 2017, 06:59:36 PM
Also a very funny warhammer TV video on their facebook page about the internet. :)

Just confirms what I said that all the "rumors" were actually planted publicity. Pictures were being posted continuously over at Dakka and Bols ever since AoS came out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhgS_5r7drI

Now if only Chris would watch the video and stop hyperventilating that GW is going to shut down the forum for posting photos that, in fact, are being purposefully leaked.

And BTW... here is a photo of those Gryph-Chargers in green:

(https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture1/1655/C3bBeigWIAAQXLO__1_.jpg)

 :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vindice on February 05, 2017, 08:15:18 PM
Oh. Those look... actually really rather nice.

Goddammit. I need money for food.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 05, 2017, 08:30:31 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on February 05, 2017, 11:52:13 AM
Just confirms what I said that all the "rumors" were actually planted publicity. Pictures were being posted continuously over at Dakka and Bols ever since AoS came out.



I think some of it is leaks, some of it is just damage control since they have started to enjoy building their own hype.

I think in this case it was damage control, No doubt they'd much rather have this months focus be on the eldar box rather than the one a month out.The stormcasts i think are a real leak but since it isn't a huge thing they aren't too bothered about a few pics of confirmed units.

Not silver tower, that seemed TOO well managed, likewise with magnus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 06, 2017, 12:59:36 AM
There is a rather well known web site that has been "leaking" information every since the start up of AoS.

If GW was so hot to "protect it's IP" (as it has in the past) they would have been closed down.

My impression is that "rumors" spreed like wild fire and GW used this social phenomena to their benefit... and still do. And they are even laughing about it. If that isn't a "wink and a nod" I don't know what is.

Lots of folks have remarked that there has been a rather large shift in the way GW does business. I would submit, this is another indicator.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on February 06, 2017, 09:52:03 AM
The potential new direction GW are taking is heartwarming, my main issue now though is that all the very obviously CG sculptured miniatures don't tickle my fancy and they don't scale so well with my old stuff :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 06, 2017, 10:06:32 AM
I agree on the hit and miss, but their fantasy stuff has just gone off the rails, and not in any good way.  Too much, too expensive and with very little character. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 06, 2017, 10:24:12 AM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 06, 2017, 10:06:32 AM
Too much, too expensive and with very little character. 

Too much? Yes, but mostly books/rules. Of course, they cannot release rules upfront all in one go first after their experience with Chapterhouse, so we're somewhat stuck with this release model. I don't blame GW, but a free digital rules delivery system and free online army builder would benefit both GW and their customers enormously in this regard. Releases would then feel less overwhelming.

Too expensive? Definitely. They always have been though, and I don't want to get into the debates all over again right now about what miniatures should cost. Suffice to say that their bundle deals which work out at "discounts" of 25-70% of the separate contents' combined RRP have been flying off the shelves for a reason, and have even tempted old vets back to GW. To me, that basically highlights what they should cost to start with - and I'm pretty certain that sales across the board would rise overwhelmingly if they did.

Very little character? Hmm, yes and no. I don't find crude and wobbly-sculpted models to be "characterful" any more than clinically digital and awkwardly-posed plastic models do. The GW starter box models and their single-figure clampacks are great examples of what can be done. That plastic clampack Brian Nelson Nurgle Lord is a perfect example of a miniature that hits all the classic notes but brings the crisp detailing of a modern techniques to the sculpt. Even in cast in metal or resin, sculptors like Andrew Rae show that there needs be no loss of character just because it's a digital sculpt.

To bring the topic back a little, those green Sigmarine riders are a great example - the birds look fantastic, but the riders on them much less so. In fact, on some of the models, it looks like they're barely holding on!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 06, 2017, 11:34:16 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 06, 2017, 10:24:12 AM
To bring the topic back a little, those green Sigmarine riders are a great example - the birds look fantastic, but the riders on them much less so. In fact, on some of the models, it looks like they're barely holding on!

Yes, the birds are much more interesting than the riders. One thing, though - the more reasonably sized battle axe that one of those figures is holding looks immeasurably better than those goofy oversized hammers. I presume the hammers aren't actually supposed to be foam in the fluff, but that's the only visually plausible explanation!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 06, 2017, 01:01:20 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 06, 2017, 10:24:12 AM
Too much? Yes, but mostly books/rules. Of course, they cannot release rules upfront all in one go first after their experience with Chapterhouse, so we're somewhat stuck with this release model. I don't blame GW, but a free digital rules delivery system and free online army builder would benefit both GW and their customers enormously in this regard. Releases would then feel less overwhelming.

Too expensive? Definitely. They always have been though, and I don't want to get into the debates all over again right now about what miniatures should cost. Suffice to say that their bundle deals which work out at "discounts" of 25-70% of the separate contents' combined RRP have been flying off the shelves for a reason, and have even tempted old vets back to GW. To me, that basically highlights what they should cost to start with - and I'm pretty certain that sales across the board would rise overwhelmingly if they did.

Very little character? Hmm, yes and no. I don't find crude and wobbly-sculpted models to be "characterful" any more than clinically digital and awkwardly-posed plastic models do. The GW starter box models and their single-figure clampacks are great examples of what can be done. That plastic clampack Brian Nelson Nurgle Lord is a perfect example of a miniature that hits all the classic notes but brings the crisp detailing of a modern techniques to the sculpt. Even in cast in metal or resin, sculptors like Andrew Rae show that there needs be no loss of character just because it's a digital sculpt.

To bring the topic back a little, those green Sigmarine riders are a great example - the birds look fantastic, but the riders on them much less so. In fact, on some of the models, it looks like they're barely holding on!
Sorry, when I wrote 'too much' I meant the minis.  The 'fantasy' stuff seems way way over the top.  I'm not sure if it's to just solidly define their IP, sell bigger and more expensive models or some combination of the two.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 06, 2017, 01:55:15 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 06, 2017, 01:01:20 PM
Sorry, when I wrote 'too much' I meant the minis.  The 'fantasy' stuff seems way way over the top.  I'm not sure if it's to just solidly define their IP, sell bigger and more expensive models or some combination of the two.

It's a thought I've voiced before on this thread, but I wonder what would happen if GW pulled out a box of - for example - utterly generic, low-fantasy orcs. Not steroidal ape-things in medieval space suits, but ugly, gangly, pot-bellied monsters of the sort they used to make in, say, 1984-5. And with all the market-leading qualities of design, finish and multi-part options that their current models possess.(Imagine the option to make the whole box with pig-snouted D&D heads ...)

I can't help but think that they'd absolutely hoover up the 'long tail' of RPGers and wargamers who aren't in thrall to their increasingly marmitish fantasy IP.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 06, 2017, 10:37:07 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 06, 2017, 01:55:15 PM
It's a thought I've voiced before on this thread, but I wonder what would happen if GW pulled out a box of - for example - utterly generic, low-fantasy orcs. Not steroidal ape-things in medieval space suits, but ugly, gangly, pot-bellied monsters of the sort they used to make in, say, 1984-5. And with all the market-leading qualities of design, finish and multi-part options that their current models possess.(Imagine the option to make the whole box with pig-snouted D&D heads ...)

I can't help but think that they'd absolutely hoover up the 'long tail' of RPGers and wargamers who aren't in thrall to their increasingly marmitish fantasy IP.

People would complain about GW pandering to them and claim they are too expensive/have the wrong ears/don't like the coat buttons ect ect ect/.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 06, 2017, 11:26:23 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 06, 2017, 01:55:15 PM
It's a thought I've voiced before on this thread, but I wonder what would happen if GW pulled out a box of - for example - utterly generic, low-fantasy orcs. Not steroidal ape-things in medieval space suits, but ugly, gangly, pot-bellied monsters of the sort they used to make in, say, 1984-5. And with all the market-leading qualities of design, finish and multi-part options that their current models possess.(Imagine the option to make the whole box with pig-snouted D&D heads ...)

I can't help but think that they'd absolutely hoover up the 'long tail' of RPGers and wargamers who aren't in thrall to their increasingly marmitish fantasy IP.

There's a Kickstarter for you to put together ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 07, 2017, 08:09:58 AM
Well I went and bought Total War Warhammer. Will be downloading it shortly. $12 USD from humble bundle monthly subscription. What a deal! I'm wondering if there is a catch though. I can opt out of the monthly deal straight away so I don't need to pay again. Here's a link for anyone interested (You get a steam key when you purchase it)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on February 07, 2017, 08:39:01 AM
And the link ;)

https://www.humblebundle.com/monthly/?mcID=102:589507cc2190d444315a801e:ot:56cec9d7733462ca894851fc:1&utm_source=Humble+Bundle+Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2017_02_06_February2017_Drop_ForHonor&linkID=5898c99a6dc3608c6c8b4569&utm_content=cta_button0
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Braxandur on February 07, 2017, 08:41:05 AM
There is no catch. I've been buying those bundles for quite a whil and in the last months also got vermintinde and Mordheim for a similar price, together with a lot more of nice games which I'll never have time for...


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 07, 2017, 08:42:15 AM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 06, 2017, 01:55:15 PM
It's a thought I've voiced before on this thread, but I wonder what would happen if GW pulled out a box of - for example - utterly generic, low-fantasy orcs. Not steroidal ape-things in medieval space suits, but ugly, gangly, pot-bellied monsters of the sort they used to make in, say, 1984-5. And with all the market-leading qualities of design, finish and multi-part options that their current models possess.(Imagine the option to make the whole box with pig-snouted D&D heads ...)

I can't help but think that they'd absolutely hoover up the 'long tail' of RPGers and wargamers who aren't in thrall to their increasingly marmitish fantasy IP.
Lancer miniatures do decent metal orcs cheap not pig faced but chain mail etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 09:07:09 AM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 06, 2017, 01:55:15 PM
It's a thought I've voiced before on this thread, but I wonder what would happen if GW pulled out a box of - for example - utterly generic, low-fantasy orcs. Not steroidal ape-things in medieval space suits, but ugly, gangly, pot-bellied monsters of the sort they used to make in, say, 1984-5. And with all the market-leading qualities of design, finish and multi-part options that their current models possess.(Imagine the option to make the whole box with pig-snouted D&D heads ...)

I can't help but think that they'd absolutely hoover up the 'long tail' of RPGers and wargamers who aren't in thrall to their increasingly marmitish fantasy IP.

Two quick thoughts on this:

1) Why would GW care to make something over which they have no control over? They don't have any of these models in their fantasy/sci-fi worlds any more (for 25+ years), and have made great and obvious moves to establish their own lore and thier own look. Releasing "utterly generic" miniatures for somebody else's game doesn't really feel like they'd be getting a return on the design and world-building effort they've put in so far.

2) Why would you want/need GW to release these for you? If they are "utterly generic", wouldn't you be better off petitioning somebody else to make them?

Quote from: nic-e on February 06, 2017, 10:37:07 PM
People would complain about GW pandering to them and claim they are too expensive/have the wrong ears/don't like the coat buttons ect ect ect/.

Also very true. I see the same pickiness over the very early 1980-something sculpts as I see over the modern ones. What if the minis are too big? Or too short? Or the heads aren't quite what you wanted? Fitting in with somebody else's view is always very risky for any manufacturer.

On this sort of subject, Northsar recently put out some fairly classically-styled plastic Gnoll that looked like they should tick similar boxes that you've asked for in your Hobgoblins. Yet I'm having a hard time finding any user-painted examples or even much discussion of them on the 'net. I therefore think that you might be over-estimating the the 'long tail' of RPGers' desire to hoover anything up in the sort of bulk required to make economically-priced plastics viable.


Edit:

For your plastic Hobgoblins, have you looked at GW's Goblin Warriors (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Goblin-Warriors?_requestid=35789)? I think they'd combine well with Wargames Factory's Orcs (https://store.warlordgames.com/products/orcs) to give you the look that you're after. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 07, 2017, 12:11:23 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 09:07:09 AM
Two quick thoughts on this:

1) Why would GW care to make something over which they have no control over? They don't have any of these models in their fantasy/sci-fi worlds any more (for 25+ years), and have made great and obvious moves to establish their own lore and thier own look. Releasing "utterly generic" miniatures for somebody else's game doesn't really feel like they'd be getting a return on the design and world-building effort they've put in so far.

Why? To steal everyone else's lunch money, of course!  ;)

If the models were generic, there would be no need to worry about control. That's the point.

And it would hardly hamper their own world-building projects. All they would need to do to include generic models is print some stats for them.

Citadel's success was founded on generic models. Then they developed a pretty generic setting for fantasy games (the Old World), which arguably became less generic (and perhaps less popular) as they refined it. They've now moved to a much more niche setting, which means that they're no longer appealing to a fairly large "generic fantasy" audience. I just wonder why they don't pounce on that market.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 09:07:09 AM
2) Why would you want/need GW to release these for you? If they are "utterly generic", wouldn't you be better off petitioning somebody else to make them?

To be clear: this isn't a personal plea! I've got enough old lead (not least after some recent eBay extravagance ...) to last for decades. I just wonder why GW doesn't think about doing what made it (or rather Citadel) such a success in the first place: making the best miniatures out there for use in all manner of games.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 09:07:09 AM
On this sort of subject, Northsar recently put out some fairly classically-styled plastic Gnoll that looked like they should tick similar boxes that you've asked for in your Hobgoblins. Yet I'm having a hard time finding any user-painted examples or even much discussion of them on the 'net. I therefore think that you might be over-estimating the the 'long tail' of RPGers' desire to hoover anything up in the sort of bulk required to make economically-priced plastics viable.

These guys (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=77384.msg1145291#msg1145291)? Now, I really like them, but I think the gnoll is hardly the most commercial choice of monster. Great for D&D players, yes, but I agree with you that RPGers aren't ever going to be a vast market - and especially not for niche monsters.

I see the long tail as being composed chiefly of fantasy wargamers, with RPGers making up a much smaller element. I suspect few RPGers ever play with appropriate miniatures for each encounter, unless they're drawing on a decades-old collection or purposefully limiting their encounters to models they have. But add up all the players of non-AOS massed-battle and skirmish games, and I suspect they come to quite a total.

Now, lots of miniature manufacturers make generic orcs (like GW used to). I suspect that GW could, if they were so inclined, release a set of generic orcs that were simply much better than everyone else's. Imagine a set of orcs that were as good, or even better, than the GW ungor sprues (some of their nicest multipart kits for my money - good dynamism in the poses and yet nicely understated). Perhaps quite pricy - say £30 a box for 10 - but with loads of options. For example, you might have three or four different sorts of heads - "classic" (i.e Tolkienesque), pig-faced, beetle-browed and lantern-jawed in a C15 style, D&Dish hobgoblins or whatever.

You might even have a versatile "Evil Humanoids" kit that could be made up as various monsters, and then "Armoured Evil Humanoids", "Evil Humanoid Specialists" and so on. And then "Small Evil Humanoids" (goblin and kobold heads, and whatever else). Rinse and repeat for dwarfs, etc.

Now, all you need to do to include them in AOS is knock up a "war scroll", right? And you could even include some primitive tech weapons on the sprue for use as 40K "planetary natives" ...

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 09:07:09 AM
For your plastic Hobgoblins, have you looked at GW's Goblin Warriors (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Goblin-Warriors?_requestid=35789)? I think they'd combine well with Wargames Factory's Orcs (https://store.warlordgames.com/products/orcs) to give you the look that you're after. :)

Thanks! But I'm not actually after plastic hobgoblins; I was merely suggesting that GW could do well by adding some generic stuff to its lines - precisely because I think GW would do it better than anyone else. The Wargames Factory orcs are a good example of where others  have fallen short. I've played around with them a bit (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=77384.msg951264#msg951264), but the awful hands and arms are really limiting (the GW warg-rider arms improve them no end, but it's right arm only, alas; the Frostgrave gnoll arms are probably the solution). And there's a schoolboy error in having the only bare head with an eyepatch.

I think the comparative quality of the GW goblins you link to (all reservations about the film design aside, those are great little critters) shows the opportunity here.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 07, 2017, 12:29:56 PM
Games workshop stopped being generic years ago, if they ever were. Their style has always been fantasy ramped up to 11.perhaps that just seems generic since they have been the go to fantasy game maker for pushing 40 years.

As to why would they not make generic models for general use?  Why should they bother?  They effectively spawned an army of companies doing just that to cash in on the bed for warhammer models,  but gw has always maintained its position of being the best. Why make something generic that lowers the standard of the product line to compete with your copy cats, when you can just continue making your own stylised stuff and having the industry follow?

I think you're confusing gw and citadel as they have been for the last few decades with what they were during their very early origins before they set themselves a style.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 01:14:43 PM
Basically as nic-e says.

Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 07, 2017, 12:11:23 PM
Why? To steal everyone else's lunch money, of course!  ;)

GW aren't really interested in your lunch money though - that's what their paints and hobby accessories are for.
They are much more interested in your Birthday and Christmas money, and in your parent's wallets (opened by your pester-power). ;)


Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 07, 2017, 12:11:23 PM
If the models were generic, there would be no need to worry about control. That's the point.

No, GW want exclusive control of what they make - and also of anything they "create" even if they never actually make any models for it. That's the point, rammed home to GW rather uncomfortably by the Chapterhouse fiasco.


Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 07, 2017, 12:11:23 PM
And it would hardly hamper their own world-building projects. All they would need to do to include generic models is print some stats for them.


Well, it does impact on them; that tooling and sculpting and machine-time (and warehousing, shipping, etc) is all effort that could be spent on something else that sells with much bigger margins, and which they retain a tight control on (i.e., which you can only get from them). In other words, it's an Opportunity Cost.


Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 07, 2017, 12:11:23 PM
Now, all you need to do to include them in AOS is knock up a "war scroll", right? And you could even include some primitive tech weapons on the sprue for use as 40K "planetary natives" ...

Hmm, not really. They neither fit anything in terms of factions, nor provide enough to do anything with on their own. A random unit of "X" genrally hasn't made most people's games for a very long time either - that's actually one reason that GW formed the more rigid factions that they have (a discussion I'm sure we've had before). In other words, players aren't interested, and GW doesn't want to bother making a full faction out of them so that players are.

______________________________________

I like your own efforts with the plastics BTW, thanks for the links. :)

Still a shame to see so few FG Gnoll though, as I think the kits look very nice. They'd make good stand-ins for Beastmen types in KoW too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 07, 2017, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 01:14:43 PM
Basically as nic-e says.

GW aren't really interested in your lunch money though - that's what their paints and hobby accessories are for.
They are much more interested in your Birthday and Christmas money, and in your parent's wallets (opened by your pester-power). ;)

Ha! Brilliant!  :D

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 01:14:43 PM
No, GW want exclusive control of what they make - and also of anything they "create" even if they never actually make any models for it. That's the point, rammed home to GW rather uncomfortably by the Chapterhouse fiasco.

Oh, sure - that is how they think. But does that attitude obscure opportunities, I wonder? I reckon that GW plastics are so far ahead of the competition that they could afford to rest on the quality.

And in answer to your some of your points below and some of nic's, I'd point out that GW have been making fairly generic fantasy stuff in the form of their LotR/Hobbit film tie-ins. If this site and the blogosphere are an indication (and they may not be representative, I accept), those models have been widely used with non-GW wargames. But the IP on which they are based is ageing (and, in the case of the Hobbit films, not very good to begin with; my kids rolled their eyes through the Five Armies one the other day, the younger having just finished the book.).

So, if they are to continue to cater for the generic fantasy market while they make their own fantasy stuff more of a specialist taste, there might be a place for non-Tolkien/Jackson generics.

Now, I'm not for a moment suggesting they will do any such thing - for all the reasons you outline. But I wonder what the player base of AOS is compared with KOW and the rest of the long tail? Was the decline in the popularity of WHFB due to less interest in fantasy battles generally or more competition for other games? I've never played KOW and probably never will, but I gather that the consensus is that it's a better ruleset that WHFB.

The basis for this whole idea is what GW said - or used to say - about being a miniatures company rather than a games company. I know they have been going big on board games recently, but if they're still broadly about the miniatures, I wonder why they're so obsessed with IP. To put it another way, I suspect that the runaway, decades-long success of 40K may not be replicable in other genres.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 01:14:43 PM

I like your own efforts with the plastics BTW, thanks for the links. :)


Cheers! I'm afraid the detail on the WF orcs is a bit soft for my rather primitive drybrush-and-wash style.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 01:14:43 PM
Still a shame to see so few FG Gnoll though, as I think the kits look very nice. They'd make good stand-ins for Beastmen types in KoW too.

Yes, they're great - and the arms are a fix for the WF orcs, which is a mercy. I've been using gnoll parts to make some Moorcockian (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=77384.0;attach=52897;image) and Boschian (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=77384.0;attach=52789;image) chaos creatures too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 07, 2017, 02:02:16 PM
For myself, my concepts of 'fantasy' really came out of my experience with 1e AD&D. The fortunate thing there is that Otherworld minis entire line follows that aesthetic. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 07, 2017, 02:06:01 PM
I have to agree that there is zero incentive for GW to do anything much different from what tey are doing now, and to in fact double down on that strategy. As MG stated, they got burned, from their pov, from the Chapterhouse case... even though let's be honest Chapterhouse was hardly a financial ripple.  My guess is that they did not want to see the flood doors open to a real competitor.  By the by, I had a bunch of the Chapterhouse Tru Scale, really nice stuff!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2017, 02:32:49 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 07, 2017, 12:11:23 PM
I suspect that GW could, if they were so inclined, release a set of generic orcs that were simply much better than everyone else's.

I don't agree with that. GW doesn't make the best models in the world, only the widest available. Digisculpts will never best handsculpted ones unless you make megamultipart kits out of them, and that's not for everybody. The Silver Tower Dwarf Slayer consists of 11(!) parts. Ridiculous for a 28mm fig in my book. Add to that fur/hair won't be as detailed in digisculpts as in handsculpts, mail looks too artificial, ditto for plain skin, grain in wooden poles and especially in fantasy those are main features of miniatures.
Add to that GW is expensive to very expensive, compared to other manufacturers unless you buy a starter box / complete game, that's superb value for money.
I won't name all the sculptors available, but current models by Chis Fitzpatrick, Tom Meier, Felix Panugia e.g. are much better in detail than anything GW produces at the moment... So yes, if GW did some generic Orcs Avatars of War would pick up immediately with better ones at a cheaper price. So I don't blame GW for not doing so, it's a simple matter of business...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 07, 2017, 02:34:30 PM
That's all got nothing to do with digital sculpting and everything to do with plastic miniatures production.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2017, 02:37:12 PM
Maybe, but I've got some metal digisculpts too and they suffer from the same thing... Hair, foldings with clothes, they're not up to par with handsculpts. But I'm happily proven wrong  ;).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 07, 2017, 02:41:47 PM
Blame the sculptor not the tools. I've got hand-sculpted figures that show the same issues. Heck, I've sculpted figures both by hand and digitally that show those issues! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2017, 03:00:48 PM
It's also to do with the casting material mediums - and plastic is intolerant of anything that even comes close to being an undercut, which is why you often get what you get.

Technically though, one could still reproduce the style of a "hand" sculpt "digitally if you wanted to - every ring in a piece of chainmail could be slightly different and irregular if you wanted it to be for example. I'm not really sure it would actually make a model notably better in the end (which is one reason nobody really does that with digital sculpts, with time invested into the sculpt being another).

So as Andrew says, odd-looking hair, or fur, or chainmail has very little/nothing to do with the sculpting medium, and much more to do with the sculptor and the casting medium (and, presumably, time).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 07, 2017, 03:30:57 PM
To go into things a bit further, there certainly are traits that feature more prominently in digitally sculpted figures than in hand sculpted ones.

For example, strangely swirly cloaks. In hand sculpting, cloaks are a pain in the ass; in digital they are relatively easy and can be pulled this way and that so that if the sculptor doesn't keep things in check, they look a mess. It's easier, so the reckless sculptor takes things further than is perhaps desirable.

But poorly sculpted drapery that doesn't follow natural patterns is all down to the sculptor. It's the sculptor who ignores natural drapery, either through ignorance or choice, not the tools they are using. There's nothing about digital sculpting that inhibits natural drapery.

Other things, such as too small heads (not a GW problem), too small details or blank expressions are down to the disconnect between what we see on screen and what appears in reality with a printed model. The sculptor has to learn the level of exaggeration required (with face the answer is 'a lot more than you'd think'). I'm not much of a fan of the new wave of '8+ heads tall' figures that are appearing from various companies (no more realistic than a 5 head tall bobble-head), and this has been facilitated by how much easier it is to control the head size on a digitally sculpted figure. Just ask any traditional sculptor who has had to scrap a head because they'd managed to make it that little bit too big.

Regarding fur, it's certainly easier to get a simulation of fur (or at least what over the years what wargamers have accepted fur looks like) with some putty and a needle. But the much maligned fur-like-leaves actually first appeared on Brian Nelson's plastic Chaos Warriors, which were hand sculpted and done for plastic production. I think GW have actually improved their method of sculpting fur for plastic a lot, but it's always going to be much more restricted than something sculpted for resin or metal production. Bizarrely, I chose this as a reference in the few times I've sculpted fur digitally, even though I was working for metal production - at the time I liked the look. I fear I failed miserably but that's down to me, not my tools. In future I will try a different method!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 07, 2017, 03:44:48 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2017, 02:32:49 PM
I don't agree with that. GW doesn't make the best models in the world, only the widest available. Digisculpts will never best handsculpted ones unless you make megamultipart kits out of them, and that's not for everybody. The Silver Tower Dwarf Slayer consists of 11(!) parts. Ridiculous for a 28mm fig in my book. Add to that fur/hair won't be as detailed in digisculpts as in handsculpts, mail looks too artificial, ditto for plain skin, grain in wooden poles and especially in fantasy those are main features of miniatures.
Add to that GW is expensive to very expensive, compared to other manufacturers unless you buy a starter box / complete game, that's superb value for money.
I won't name all the sculptors available, but current models by Chis Fitzpatrick, Tom Meier, Felix Panugia e.g. are much better in detail than anything GW produces at the moment... So yes, if GW did some generic Orcs Avatars of War would pick up immediately with better ones at a cheaper price. So I don't blame GW for not doing so, it's a simple matter of business...

What a load of biased ill informed tosh.

You're mistaking stylistic/aesthetic  choices informed by the necessities of plastics tooling for "quality" of sculpting (whatever that means). Also the price thing...the figures cost what they cost and you'll just have to get over it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 07, 2017, 05:12:43 PM
 lol

How do you really feel Andrew?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2017, 05:27:30 PM
Fine, show me a digisculpt by Gael Goumont that is better than a comparable handsculpt by him...  :).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 07, 2017, 05:32:18 PM
What would that prove? Gael's been sculpting by hand a lot longer than he's been sculpting digitally.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 07, 2017, 06:40:44 PM
Quote from: nic-e on February 07, 2017, 12:29:56 PM
Games workshop stopped being generic years ago, if they ever were. Their style has always been fantasy ramped up to 11.perhaps that just seems generic since they have been the go to fantasy game maker for pushing 40 years.

Oh, they certainly were generic - through several editions of Warhammer at the very least. And I don't think "fantasy ramped up to 11" has always been their thing either. There's still a lot of the "pathetic aesthetic" about the Skaven, for example. I think you could argue that a lot of GW's fantasy stuff is - even now - still more restrained than, e.g., Reaper's.

Quote from: nic-e on February 07, 2017, 12:29:56 PM
Why make something generic that lowers the standard of the product line to compete with your copy cats, when you can just continue making your own stylised stuff and having the industry follow?

Why would generic stuff lower the standards, though? Some of the less stylised current GW stuff is of a very high standard - the e.g. LOTR range and those marvellous ungors.

And isn't is something of an open question as to whether the industry will follow the AOS trend? The imitators, for now, seem to be still looking to the later iterations of WHFB.

Quote from: nic-e on February 07, 2017, 12:29:56 PM
I think you're confusing gw and citadel as they have been for the last few decades with what they were during their very early origins before they set themselves a style.

Well, their take on the generic certainly became the norm (in the 90s, perhaps?). And even in the 80s, their stuff was the best expression of generic fantasy around, but it was always fairly generic. Sure, they added lots of their own touches (the Slann and the Skaven, most obviously), but the core of the Old World was alway Tolkien and Moorcock filtered through D&D. I don't think they've got very far away from that until fairly recently (with things like that big undead wizard - Nagash? - and then AOS). The classic Warhammer stuff was generally a bit more earth and gritty and historically grounded than what the likes of Reaper and Ral Partha were producing.

Certainly, there's been a move towards the cartoonish ever since the introduction of slottabases, but the overall look of Warhammer  has, for the most part, been somewhat pseudo-historical. Much less so now, though!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 07, 2017, 06:48:32 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2017, 02:32:49 PM
I don't agree with that. GW doesn't make the best models in the world, only the widest available. Digisculpts will never best handsculpted ones unless you make megamultipart kits out of them, and that's not for everybody. The Silver Tower Dwarf Slayer consists of 11(!) parts. Ridiculous for a 28mm fig in my book. Add to that fur/hair won't be as detailed in digisculpts as in handsculpts, mail looks too artificial, ditto for plain skin, grain in wooden poles and especially in fantasy those are main features of miniatures.

Ah, but we're talking about multi-part, multi-option kits here. I can't think of a manufacturer that does fairly naturalistic fantasy (those ungors again!) in plastic as well as GW. There are lots of people who do the over-the-top-stuff as well or better than GW in plastic, but my hypothetical orcs are generic low-fantasy!

Quote from: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2017, 02:32:49 PM
Add to that GW is expensive to very expensive, compared to other manufacturers unless you buy a starter box / complete game, that's superb value for money.

Are manufacturers like Avatars of War that much cheaper?

Quote from: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2017, 02:32:49 PM
I won't name all the sculptors available, but current models by Chis Fitzpatrick, Tom Meier, Felix Panugia e.g. are much better in detail than anything GW produces at the moment... So yes, if GW did some generic Orcs Avatars of War would pick up immediately with better ones at a cheaper price. So I don't blame GW for not doing so, it's a simple matter of business...

Hang on - Avatars of War don't do rank-and-file orcs of the over-the-top GW sort yet, so I don't see them jumping in immediately!

I agree that Tom Meier's stuff is sublime. But it's all in metal, as far as I'm aware. The Thunder Mountain orcs are brilliant, but they're not multi-part, multi-option kits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 07, 2017, 07:40:05 PM
Quote from: grant on February 07, 2017, 05:12:43 PM
lol

How do you really feel Andrew?

Trust me, I held back.

I really want to post up some of the Kingdom Death hard plastics and comparisons to the resins but feel that again, the aesthetic choice or sculpting "style" would distract from the point I'm trying to make.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on February 07, 2017, 07:47:02 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2017, 05:27:30 PM
Fine, show me a digisculpt by Gael Goumont that is better than a comparable handsculpt by him...  :).

Check out Andrew's sculpts...(Statuesque). His digital stuff is way beyond most traditional sculpts in terms of quality *IMO*. Really, 3D printed models can be insanely good. Warzone/AVP models, extremely well done and better than a lot of traditionally sculpted models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 07, 2017, 07:58:34 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on February 07, 2017, 07:40:05 PM
I really want to post up some of the Kingdom Death hard plastics and comparisons to the resins but feel that again, the aesthetic choice or sculpting "style" would distract from the point I'm trying to make.

That's certainly pertinent with all the comparisons being made between the Forgeworld and GW primarch models. One is a collectors piece sculpted for resin production that largely ignores the existing sculpting style and aesthetic, the other is designed for plastic and very much follows the GW house style, which as you said is formed from the needs of plastic production.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2017, 08:09:35 PM
I know Statesque, it's on my to buy list and like I said, I'm happily proven wrong.  :)
The best digisculpts I'vee seen and felt up to now are the Prodos Load Legends, great designs, the material is excellent, the castings clean and very crisp but they compensate in their designs for the material. The Warzone KS I skipped, because I didn't like the designs ( and I spend too much each month already on the hobby... ). Will see it in time at Brax', though...
But take e.g. the production resins for Mythic Battles and before Conan and see the difference between digi and hand... You cannot truly say the digistuff is of equal quality with the old fashionedhandiwork...
But, in the end, it is my hobby budget and if I like a model enough I'll buy it, whether it's a digisculpt, a handsculpt, a plastic, metal or resin one...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on February 07, 2017, 08:32:57 PM
I am happy with GW's  current progress, and even with their stylistic choices. They seem to be improving in attitude compared to many years that have passed, and that's a positive.

Their lotr is very much related to the movies, that's great and if that suits the needs of some ( I have a few for certain things - goblins mainly for weedy mass gangs of skaven slave fodder).

Its different again to Mithril range - there are some good and bad in there, but that aside I am happy they are available to.

My point being the miniature market currently seems to be alive with stuff. new stuff, old stuff, new stuff looking like old stuff even.

Whatever flavour I want there is likely something to suit. Do I want a dust up between some metal magic, 40k, Aliens, judge dredd and WWWII?

Sure go for it if you can afford them.

In essence I would rather GW stuck to what they are doing, and hey some of it I might pitch in and buy, even at their prices. But I like where they hopefully are going currently - somewhere positive after such a long time of negative - I am happy they keep going there, and don't mess up everything everyone else is putting out!

I don't really see anything "generic", just of a particular "style" sometimes related even to a particular "period", 80s, 90s, whatever. I like the diversity we are getting, and I want to keep it that way, so if a particular style grabs me, I can have some of that, and then maybe change to something else if that picks my fantasy.

I like that we have so much choice available.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 07, 2017, 09:01:32 PM
I think GW has made their decision quite a while ago.  It appears they have little to no interest in enlarging their market of consumers by producing generic miniatures, as their style is increasingly different (and hugely divisive).  So they've obviously decided they don't want to make kits for people to use outside of their game - they must assume they have a large enough market share and a rabid enough consumer base (and it appears they probably do) to skip the rest of the market.  They already took the unfortunate step a bit ago to go down the "no rules without a model" approach because of concern over alternate companies or 3rd party suppliers.

Do I think GW could drastically increase their sales with more generic miniatures?  Absolutely.  It appears they don't wish to go that route, so be it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 07, 2017, 11:37:16 PM
Pity the Perry twins don't do fantasy any more. Given the quality and style of their work for Citadel back in the day, and their expertise in making good plastic sets that retain much of the realistic poses of metals, a plastic boxed set of the 'beastly humanoids' with various head options would be lovely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Braxandur on February 08, 2017, 06:44:54 AM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2017, 08:09:35 PM
The Warzone KS I skipped, because I didn't like the designs ( and I spend too much each month already on the hobby... ). Will see it in time at Brax', though...

I guess you mean Siege of the Citadel... The Warzone have already been gathering dust for quite some time  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 08, 2017, 06:50:26 PM
GWs official response to PETA has been put up!

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/02/08/fur-the-emperor/

It is everything I had hoped it would be.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 08, 2017, 07:29:10 PM
Quote from: nic-e on February 08, 2017, 06:50:26 PM
GWs official response to PETA has been put up!

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/02/08/fur-the-emperor/

It is everything I had hoped it would be.

Wow. Damn, I think I love new GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 08, 2017, 07:49:45 PM
Yep, spot on.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on February 08, 2017, 10:07:32 PM
GW made fairly generic Fantasy models until a couple of years ago.  The problem was, nobody was buying them any more.  And they've not been interested in making models for other people's games since 1986.

Could they sell more?  Double the range, double the income?  Probably not, and certainly not just on the basis of us old forum farts *who would buy a box each.  If they're lucky - half of us would say "that's not what I want an orc to look like".  But they've doubled the production, stock, shipping and handling costs.  Their shops already can't stock the entire range.

This isn't just about IP, the new style of models uses their 3D sculpting and injection moulding to the max.  GW have made a market niche for themselves that no other company can even break into - skinny, dynamic kits, whirling magical energies (hey, I didn't say I liked everything about them), giant monsters, mechs and vehicles in styrene.  Why fight for scraps in the generic gaming market?  Never sell low when you can sell high, there's always another guy who can beat you on cost and volume.  We forget that GW is smaller than ANY of Hasbro's brands.

if you want orcs, GW make about half a dozen types for LotR, and another half dozen for LotR.  Mantic make them in plastic, so do Shieldwolf, and Reaper, even eM-4.  Want them in metal - there are dozens of ranges from the 70s, 80s all the way up to the present. Ral Partha, Tom Meier, Scotia Grendel (the old Harlequin LotR range minus insignia), Asgard, Denizen, Mirliton - those are just some of my favourites.

Want a Tzaangor?  You have to go to GW.

* I speak only for myself when I use the description "old fart"  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 08, 2017, 10:10:44 PM
What he said ^^^

Top post.  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on February 08, 2017, 10:18:27 PM
Agreed. Well said!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on February 08, 2017, 10:21:38 PM
The fiver's in the post chaps...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 08, 2017, 11:16:34 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on February 08, 2017, 10:07:32 PM
GW made fairly generic Fantasy models until a couple of years ago.  The problem was, nobody was buying them any more.  And they've not been interested in making models for other people's games since 1986.

Could they sell more?  Double the range, double the income?  Probably not, and certainly not just on the basis of us old forum farts *who would buy a box each.  If they're lucky - half of us would say "that's not what I want an orc to look like".  But they've doubled the production, stock, shipping and handling costs.  Their shops already can't stock the entire range.

This isn't just about IP, the new style of models uses their 3D sculpting and injection moulding to the max.  GW have made a market niche for themselves that no other company can even break into - skinny, dynamic kits, whirling magical energies (hey, I didn't say I liked everything about them), giant monsters, mechs and vehicles in styrene.  Why fight for scraps in the generic gaming market?  Never sell low when you can sell high, there's always another guy who can beat you on cost and volume.  We forget that GW is smaller than ANY of Hasbro's brands.

if you want orcs, GW make about half a dozen types for LotR, and another half dozen for LotR.  Mantic make them in plastic, so do Shieldwolf, and Reaper, even eM-4.  Want them in metal - there are dozens of ranges from the 70s, 80s all the way up to the present. Ral Partha, Tom Meier, Scotia Grendel (the old Harlequin LotR range minus insignia), Asgard, Denizen, Mirliton - those are just some of my favourites.

Want a Tzaangor?  You have to go to GW.

* I speak only for myself when I use the description "old fart"  :D

You've said it far better than i could. That's what i meant by not underselling themsleves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 09, 2017, 02:41:51 PM
Bye the bye....

If you have been using the GW metal paints, especially the gold, I have a recommendation for the highlight.

Some use Liberator Gold (as I have on my Stormcast) or if you want a reallly flashing highlight to use silver.

Recently I tried out Sycorax Bronze on my old school Sisters of Battle I'm repainting. This Bronze color actually is an amazingly good highlight for gold armor. The recipe I have used on them was undercoat with Retributor Armour, wash with Reikland Fleshshade, repaint the raised areas with Retributor Armour and then highlight with Sycorax Bronze.

The highlight really jumps out and gives a very nice "shiny" gold armor look.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 09, 2017, 03:35:37 PM
I'll have to try that. I'm needing to order some paint so I'll add the bronze to the order.

I've noticed a few of the GW painting guides suggest highlighting Retributor Armour with Liberator Gold, but they're totally different gold colours. I just went with adding a bit of silver to the mix for highlights.

Retributor Armour is such a good gold though, I've used it to speed paint some of my Silver Tower tzeentch all metallic and it's so lovely and shiney!

Edit:

SO SHINEY! Kinda wish I'd done them all in Retributor Armour but the other colours help to identify the different figures.

(http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss125/Khorosho-Productions/shiney_zpsekp2cpwg.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 09, 2017, 04:00:09 PM
Neat! I'd like to see the weapons done in a different colour, carved jade daggers maybe? Still looks rad as is.  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 09, 2017, 04:47:21 PM
Thanks. I might experiment to see if I can find a really lazy was of doing jade daggers, maybe green with black washes, especially as the rest of the tzeentch figures feature more weapons. In the meantime though, I'm just going to bang them out so I have at least one fully painted (well, coloured anyway...) set from these bloody boxed games I keep splashing out on. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 09, 2017, 07:19:05 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on February 09, 2017, 03:35:37 PM
I've noticed a few of the GW painting guides suggest highlighting Retributor Armour with Liberator Gold, but they're totally different gold colours. I just went with adding a bit of silver to the mix for highlights.

Liberator Gold works well with the Retributor Gold as long as there is enough space between the highlight, the shade (Reikland Fleshshade) and the base coat to set it off. It therefore works really well with my Stormcast as they are large models.

The problem, is that Liberator Gold is just not shiny enough when there isn't a really good contrast.

That is what I found painting the old Sisters of Battle (which are really busy models). The Liberator Gold just didn't work... but the Sycorax Bronze, OTOH, just lept right out.

Quote from: Andrew Rae on February 09, 2017, 03:35:37 PM
Retributor Armour is such a good gold though, I've used it to speed paint some of my Silver Tower tzeentch all metallic and it's so lovely and shiney!

SO SHINEY! Kinda wish I'd done them all in Retributor Armour but the other colours help to identify the different figures.

Yep... they look awesome!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 11, 2017, 12:02:15 PM
What do ya'll think of the new Death Forest?

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120199043_DeathWorldForest01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 11, 2017, 12:24:52 PM
I like that it's something new. I'd prefer a pic of it laid out on a tabletop.  I'm very impressed with the gryph hound price. £12 from wayland games. Pricing is getting better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on February 11, 2017, 12:32:46 PM
Quote from: beefcake on February 11, 2017, 12:24:52 PM
I like that it's something new. I'd prefer a pic of it laid out on a tabletop.  I'm very impressed with the gryph hound price. £12 from wayland games. Pricing is getting better.

But then the Death world forest is £80 which IMO is far too expensive.

I like it though, something a bit different.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 11, 2017, 12:33:06 PM
Quote from: beefcake on February 11, 2017, 12:24:52 PM
....I'm very impressed with the gryph hound price. £12 from wayland games. Pricing is getting better.

I agree.
I am seriously considering a couple of boxes of those, which will be my first GW purchase for a very long time indeed.
I now need to go and lie down.....
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 11, 2017, 12:48:58 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on February 11, 2017, 12:32:46 PM
But then the Death world forest is £80 which IMO is far too expensive.

I like it though, something a bit different.

The Death World set does seem a tad pricey but it's sixty odd elsewhere which might be a bit more reasonable.

I really like the pricing of these new releases. The 10 man Stormcast sets are great in comparison to what the 5 figure sets were. The battletome is cheaper than expected too which is good news for owners of the old books (a supplementary book like the Stormcast Extremis one would have been £20!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 11, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
The deathworld forest or whatever looks..."okay" at best and is incredibly expensive.  That's a fail for me (it also doesn't look very useful). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 11, 2017, 02:37:35 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 11, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
The deathworld forest or whatever looks..."okay" at best and is incredibly expensive.  That's a fail for me (it also doesn't look very useful). 


I think it could also be useful for AoS representing a twisted chaos landscape or including bits in a Sylvaneth woodland.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 11, 2017, 04:00:27 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 11, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
The deathworld forest or whatever looks..."okay" at best and is incredibly expensive.  That's a fail for me (it also doesn't look very useful). 

Initial impression is that it let one dreadful but that might partially be down to presentation. I'd like to see it on the tabletop, in context. My inner child hopes that the eldar rune thingy heralds the arrival of some Deathworld Exodites.... o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 11, 2017, 04:52:41 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 11, 2017, 02:37:35 PM
I think it could also be useful for AoS representing a twisted chaos landscape or including bits in a Sylvaneth woodland.

Certainly could be useful, I agree.

I can't get a scale of it though so it is hard to make any judgement. So yep, we need more photos.

As to the new pricing of the Stormcast minis...  :o

And just another tip thing folks might find interesting. As I have said before, I have never used pre-made washes before. The Reikland Fleshshade does great work with gold, as I am sure most folks know. What I discovered though was that Nuln Oil can be used as a "sloppy and fast" way to black line darker colors. Not only do you get a nice black edge/line, but you also get a darker blend on the color it is applied to. You don't really slop it on though, but just use a fine brush so that you can control the amount you are applying. Overall, I am finding the GW washes to be very useful in more ways than one. Though I guess that applies to any pre-made wash.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 11, 2017, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 11, 2017, 02:25:59 PM
That's a fail for me (it also doesn't look very useful). 

Actually, for GW (AoS and WH40K) games it could be quite useful. If you read the description it talks about have an ability to poison and kill folks who get too close.

Not sure, but this "the terrain has capabilities more than just blocking line of sight", which is a central theme in AoS games, looks like it is being introduced into 40K as well.

I like the general idea concerning "purposeful" terrain. It thus serves more than to just pretty up a gaming board and has to be considered in how you play the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 11, 2017, 05:10:07 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on February 11, 2017, 04:52:41 PM

As to the new pricing of the Stormcast minis...  :o




Is that pleasant surprise or utter horror?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 11, 2017, 06:40:48 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on February 11, 2017, 12:32:46 PM
But then the Death world forest is £80 which IMO is far too expensive.

I like it though, something a bit different.

Hence me not writing about it's price. Iol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on February 11, 2017, 07:02:37 PM
Picture of the Games Workshop Deathworld box content along with a picture showing some miniatures for scale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on February 11, 2017, 07:04:06 PM
Quote from: Mason on February 11, 2017, 12:33:06 PM
I agree.
I am seriously considering a couple of boxes of those, which will be my first GW purchase for a very long time indeed.
I now need to go and lie down.....
 ;)



Just buy them from an online retailler, saving you at least 20% on £80.00 and that's quite some money you save!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 11, 2017, 07:10:06 PM
Quote from: Belgian on February 11, 2017, 07:04:06 PM
Just buy them from an online retailler, saving you at least 20% on £80.00 and that's quite some money you save!

Oh, dont worry, I intend to.
I could not hand GW my money without someone brokering the deal so that I do not feel so 'dirty'.
 ;)

I am not after those Death World efforts, though.
Just some of those Hound thingies.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 11, 2017, 07:32:40 PM
Quote from: Mason on February 11, 2017, 07:10:06 PM
Oh, dont worry, I intend to.
I could not hand GW my money without someone brokering the deal so that I do not feel so 'dirty'.
 ;)

I threw GW some cash directly this morning for the SC battletome and warscroll cards because I'm sick of Indie retailers shafting me on pre-orders.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on February 11, 2017, 07:40:13 PM
Quote from: Mason on February 11, 2017, 07:10:06 PM
Oh, dont worry, I intend to.
I could not hand GW my money without someone brokering the deal so that I do not feel so 'dirty'.
 ;)

I am not after those Death World efforts, though.
Just some of those Hound thingies.
 ;)



Those Gryph Hounds are indeed very tempting!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 11, 2017, 10:41:52 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on February 11, 2017, 12:02:15 PM
What do ya'll think of the new Death Forest?

Hmm, not especially keen really... And that's without considering the price.  :?


Quote from: Ray Rivers on February 11, 2017, 05:01:51 PM
Not sure, but this "the terrain has capabilities more than just blocking line of sight", which is a central theme in AoS games, looks like it is being introduced into 40K as well.

I like the general idea concerning "purposeful" terrain. It thus serves more than to just pretty up a gaming board and has to be considered in how you play the game.

It was in WHFB, and also in in 40k, before it was in AoS. Actually, a simple form of special terrain rules were also in Epic40k, but I'll put money on it that almost nobody ever gave that edition of the game much play time.

However, in WHFB many players apparently just ignored all the extra rules.  :?

For my part, terrain needs both some risk and reward, or otherwise it risks either becoming a dominating focus or is simply avoided (in my experience anyway). Obviously for some terrain like fortifications, this is very apt! Other times, it doesn't help the game too much.


Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 11, 2017, 07:32:40 PM
I threw GW some cash directly this morning for the SC battletome and warscroll cards because I'm sick of Indie retailers shafting me on pre-orders.  :D

Yeah, I had a conversation not that long ago with a friend about that very topic! Considering how often this happens, I actually wonder if GW deliberately under-supplies the third-party retailers in order to cash in on the initial release enthusiasm themselves?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 11, 2017, 10:54:38 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 11, 2017, 10:41:52 PM
Yeah, I had a conversation not that long ago with a friend about that very topic! Considering how often this happens, I actually wonder if GW deliberately under-supplies the third-party retailers in order to cash in on the initial release enthusiasm themselves?

I'm more inclined to think it's the retailers at fault. They know how much stock has been allocated to them but they keep taking pre-orders. Wayland have a warning on their pre-orders now stating that there might be delays in supplying items. If it's something that will definitely be restocked like models that will be available for the next few years then fine but limited supply boxed sets or things like books (Disciples of Tzeentch battletome for example) then from now on I'll pre-order direct. I missed out on the Sylvaneth Battle Force set before Xmas and almost missed out on the hardback Tzeentch battletome last month.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 11, 2017, 10:57:34 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 11, 2017, 10:41:52 PM


However, in WHFB many players apparently just ignored all the extra rules.  :?



Most of the (Not all.) WHFB players I set up tables for at work just push It all off the table because it gets in the way. Nevermind working around it and pretending there is some strategy to be had or you know FUN FROM NARRATIVE. Nope, Flat featureless tables are apparently of immense value to the armies of the old world.(Don't start me on 9th age....)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 11, 2017, 11:05:23 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 11, 2017, 07:32:40 PM
I threw GW some cash directly this morning for the SC battletome and warscroll cards because I'm sick of Indie retailers shafting me on pre-orders.  :D

Yep, I can see ya point there, as it did happen to me recently with some Judge Dredd stuff.
Claimed to be 'in-stock' and then received email that they would get hold of it in a few weeks.
Suffice to say, that did not happen.

Not in any hurry, though, so I can wait until the early rush is over.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 11, 2017, 11:07:37 PM
I understand completely - same friend I mentioned above also missed out on the Sylvaneth army box (actually, I didn't realise it was limited at the time, and indeed still find it odd that it was).

As much as I like the guys who run it, I must say that Wayland are especially slow in getting stock.

Does GW simply underestimate demand that much I wonder? And I also wonder how many casual purchasers are put off and never make that impulse buy if they can't get something without waiting for re-stock?

Anyway.


Quote from: nic-e on February 11, 2017, 10:57:34 PM
Most of the (Not all.) WHFB players I set up tables for at work just push It all off the table because it gets in the way. Nevermind working around it and pretending there is some strategy to be had or you know FUN FROM NARRATIVE. Nope, Flat featureless tables are apparently of immense value to the armies of the old world.(Don't start me on 9th age....)

I don't think a lot of people ever had many pieces of terrain on the table to start with, and I generally observed that woods = woods, and hills = hills, and a house = a house, etc. Regularly, almost no effort was made to roll on the charts to see what features the terrain had when units entered it, as this was considered "stupid" and "unpredictable".

Then again, reading through some of the terrain charts myself, I could sorta see why they might have felt that way...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 11, 2017, 11:23:30 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 11, 2017, 11:07:37 PM

I don't think a lot of people ever had many pieces of terrain on the table to start with, and I generally observed that woods = woods, and hills = hills, and a house = a house, etc. Regularly, almost no effort was made to roll on the charts to see what features the terrain had when units entered it, as this was considered "stupid" and "unpredictable".

Then again, reading through some of the terrain charts myself, I could sorta see why they might have felt that way...

That's understandable.I personally never used to really put the rules into terrain because i preferred it to be a back drop to my adventures. What I'm referring to is not a lack of or dislike for random terrain effects, but a desire instead to just whack down armies onto a blank table (i had a request for the wooden board to be removed so they could just have white plastic once!) so you can reduce the game down to the tactical challenge that some people believe it is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 12, 2017, 09:40:05 AM
Quote from: nic-e on February 11, 2017, 11:23:30 PM
That's understandable.I personally never used to really put the rules into terrain because i preferred it to be a back drop to my adventures. What I'm referring to is not a lack of or dislike for random terrain effects, but a desire instead to just whack down armies onto a blank table (i had a request for the wooden board to be removed so they could just have white plastic once!) so you can reduce the game down to the tactical challenge that some people believe it is.

That rings lots of bells from the dim and distant past of my childhood games of second and third edition. I recall games being played on dinner tables with vast armies and pretty much zero terrain (a hill made of books, now and then, perhaps?).

I think it actually highlights a problem with the Warhammer rules - at least in those editions (first was a bit different). There was a huge amount of emphasis on minor differences between troop types (strength, toughness, weapon skill, etc) but almost no emphasis on how different troop types interacted with terrain. That's why I found Hordes of the Things such a revelation when I switched from Warhammer to that: suddenly, terrain was vital, because players of certain troop types would be very keen to see as much of it as possible.

So, if you have orcs in Warhammer, they're just orcs: a bit harder to kill than human infantry, and a bit slower in combat. The same troops in HOTT would probably be classed as warband (as would hobgoblins, elven wardancers and chaos beastmen): fierce, fast-moving shock troops. Now, these troops can sweep away other infantry units if they simply beat them (rather than double their score), but won't do that most times against the better infantry (spears and blades). Put them in bad going, though, and they become lethal, because most other troop types suffer a significant penalty for fighting in bad going. Beasts (wargs, wolfriders, giant bears, whatever) are similar.So, the orc/wood elf/hobgoblin/Norseman/beastman player has a huge incentive to have plenty of bad going on the table: not only are warbands and beasts much better at fighting in bad going, but they don't suffer movement penalties in it. And when you add on HOTT's lurkers (suddenly deployed in combat with enemies against troops in bad going) and water lurkers (ditto for water features), terrain becomes an indispensable part of the game. And its placement is actually mandated by the rules.

I'm using HOTT as an example, but the same's true of Dragon Rampant (which has a fair bit of HOTT DNA, as I think the author has acknowledged, and refines the effects of bad going in some interesting ways). And I'm sure it's true of other games. The point is, these bad-going-friendly troop types aren't fringe options (like Warhammer skirmishers - which nobody ever used, as far as I recall), but staples of the game.

It's easy to see why Warhammer went the way it did if you look at first edition and its scenarios (e.g. The Ziggurat of Doom). As an RPG/skirmish hybrid, the detailed stat lines and subtle variations between, say, a goblin and a hobgoblin made perfect sense. The Ziggurat of Doom features six dwarves versus 3d6 goblins (of whom the first six can be hobgoblins) + 1d6 more for the first three turns. The eponymous pyramid has broken stairways and piles of rubble, so terrain is fully incorporated into the scenario - and vital: those dwarves crossbowmen will need as much cover as they can get and can exploit the bottlenecks created by the unbroken stairs.

But once you start drifting into massed battles, individual (rather than group) interactions with terrain become less important. And here, later editions of Warhammer show their skirmish roots. It's a game originally built for situations where a small pile of rubble has obvious tactical advantages, but not one that legislates well for the advantages that a bigger terrain feature might offer to (say) ferocious, loose-order troops or how that same terrain might impair heavily armoured, close-order troops. And while the individual stat-lines were great for forcing the individual dwarf crossbowman to decide whether to risk a long-range shot at the tough hobgoblin in the distance or the greater certainty of taking out a frailer goblin who's less of a threat up close, they often seem a bit superfluous or even fiddly in a massed-battle situation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 12, 2017, 11:44:58 AM
I'm new to the fantasy side of things, so had no idea this wasn't a novel idea.

And yep, it makes sense that while "purposeful" terrain could easily be used to one's benefit in a small skirmish game, it would just get in the way of a large battle.

Back to the terrain itself, even with the photo with the minis in the picture, I still can't get an image of scale and need to see it on a table.

I'm not in a rush either, so, I'll guess we shall see it soon enough.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on February 13, 2017, 12:16:41 AM
Since this is the GW discussion...can anyone help a new 40k player (me) assemble a force? I don't have any of the rulebooks yet (there's rumors there's going to be a new edition this year, so I'll wait a bit more before buying then), just miniatures. We can talk by PM  ;) And yes, after all these years staying away from 40k, I got pulled back when they announced that a Primarch would be back  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 13, 2017, 12:43:24 AM
Quote from: Predatorpt on February 13, 2017, 12:16:41 AM
Since this is the GW discussion...can anyone help a new 40k player (me) assemble a force? I don't have any of the rulebooks yet (there's rumors there's going to be a new edition this year, so I'll wait a bit more before buying then), just miniatures. We can talk by PM  ;) And yes, after all these years staying away from 40k, I got pulled back when they announced that a Primarch would be back  lol

Have you narrowed down what faction you might go with?

I haven't played 40K rules since 3rd edition... I will probably be buying the next edition though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on February 13, 2017, 12:46:54 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on February 13, 2017, 12:43:24 AM
Have you narrowed down what faction you might go with?

I haven't played 40K rules since 3rd edition... I will probably be buying the next edition though.

Going for the Space Marines since those are the miniatures that I can go into a store here in Portugal and buy. Most of the other factions have to be ordered.

The owner of the local store says I have enough guys to do a Demi-Company, but I need to know what weapons to choose on the models and such - that's the burden of doing the things the other way around, first I assemble the minis then I'll buy and read the rules, lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on February 13, 2017, 04:06:24 AM
Quote from: Predatorpt on February 13, 2017, 12:46:54 AM
Going for the Space Marines since those are the miniatures that I can go into a store here in Portugal and buy. Most of the other factions have to be ordered.

The owner of the local store says I have enough guys to do a Demi-Company, but I need to know what weapons to choose on the models and such - that's the burden of doing the things the other way around, first I assemble the minis then I'll buy and read the rules, lol.

Build for Heralds of Ruin Kill Team (http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.com/p/kill-team-rules.html) (small scale 40k with VERY few models, especially as Space Marines) and then plan something out from there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 13, 2017, 12:14:11 PM
@ Predatorpt:

Shoot me a PM with what you've got models/options-wise, and what you want in terms of game size and gameplay. Also, how backwards-compatible you want this army to be (mostly for things like Grav or Centurions). ;)

Roughly-speaking though, half a Battle Company is:

1 Captain or Chaplain
0-1 Command Squads (5 models)
3 Tactical Squads (5-10 models each)
1 of the following: Assault Squad, Bike Squad, Attack Bike Squad, Land Speeder Squadron, or Centurion Assault Squad
1 of the following: Devastator Squad or Centurion Devastator Squad
0-1 Dreadnought, Ironclad Dreadnought, or Venerable Dreadnought

The perk you get for this formation is that every model gets Objective Secured (which IIRC helps them contest objectives better than other non-ObSec troops, and lets them continue "holding" them after they've moved away).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on February 13, 2017, 07:06:07 PM
Thanks, Shub-Nullgurath and Major_Gilbear - in you case, I'll drop you a PM later today, as soon as I take stock of the things I have here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 16, 2017, 07:01:46 PM
GW put up a bit of info on the new Warhammer Quest game up for pre-order at the weekend. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/16/unboxing-the-new-warhammer-quest/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/16/unboxing-the-new-warhammer-quest/)

Not convinced by the tile - too many textures and I don't like the lack of any black border. Just looks a mess in the photos.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 17, 2017, 03:33:24 AM
I'm really enjoying Warhammer Total War at the moment.
I'm playing as the Vampire counts faction (I collected undead growing up). The AI can be a bit strange at times, e.g. computer sending all infantry up at once but faster infantry gets up and close too quick. Most battles have been easily won.
The one thing I do like is the characters in the game. Just like in WFB they are massively overpowered (but not too badly balanced), they roam around as a single person as opposed to a unit and can take a beating and deliver one. The character advancement is great. You gain new abilities and spells for your characters. Magic items and followers. Units can get magic banners etc. Well worth the $12 USD I paid for it from Humble bundle.
The biggest drawback I am finding (although I will get used to it) is the city/town interface. It doesn't seem as userfriendly as it used to be.
Still it's great fun and I'll be playing it for quite some time. Factions will be quite different to so hopefully a lot of replayability.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 17, 2017, 09:15:18 PM
Slambo's grown a bit...

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Slambo-Exalted-Hero (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Slambo-Exalted-Hero)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 17, 2017, 09:39:37 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on February 17, 2017, 09:15:18 PM
Slambo's grown a bit...

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Slambo-Exalted-Hero (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Slambo-Exalted-Hero)

Ooof! That's an ugly figure! Oddly enough, I brought up the original earlier today (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=96364.msg1216252#msg1216252) in the discussion of the not-Heroquest figures. For me, the "half-Slambo" original Heroquest chaos warrior was always preferable. There's something about figures with twin axes that's always "off", somehow.

Certainly, this "update" looks a lot less elegant than the one they did of the original space marine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 17, 2017, 09:40:59 PM
I've also been looking for the original. Not lately. I prefer the original but think this one is nice (if not the price)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 17, 2017, 10:06:08 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 17, 2017, 09:39:37 PM
Ooof! That's an ugly figure! Oddly enough, I brought up the original earlier today (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=96364.msg1216252#msg1216252) in the discussion of the not-Heroquest figures. For me, the "half-Slambo" original Heroquest chaos warrior was always preferable. There's something about figures with twin axes that's always "off", somehow.

Certainly, this "update" looks a lot less elegant than the one they did of the original space marine.

I prefer the plastic heroquest Slambo to metal Slambo too, if you ignore the limitations of the plastic moulding. I'd go as far as to say the basic concept is my perfect Chaos warrior.

I spent faaaaaar too much effort sculpting new feet, replacing his massive free hand and scrapping out some of the filled undercuts. No one will notice but he's such a bad ass and (almost) worth it. I got the metal one recently as well and while very nice, he's a bit goofy.

This new Slambo is interesting to see how they updated him, but I wish the sculptor had knocked out a bit more of the symmetry and straight edged precision. He shares the Stormcast rotund torso too. Don't get why they have to be so tubby.

Still tempted mind you. Resin though... had better be less work than the finecast Slambo I returned to GW last year.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on February 18, 2017, 12:07:38 AM
Boris Simiano just sculpted a nice chaos warrior in that style for an upcoming Kickstarter

nm i see it has already been posted elsewhere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 18, 2017, 12:29:37 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on February 17, 2017, 09:15:18 PM
Slambo's grown a bit...

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Slambo-Exalted-Hero (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Slambo-Exalted-Hero)

I fucking love that they kept the name!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 18, 2017, 03:57:49 AM
While I appreciate the old Slambo nod, I don't find the miniature that...lovely?  As mentioned by someone else it's almost far too symmetrical and is missing some of the leather and natural posing of the older metals.  Also, someone said it's on a 40mm base so that guy is freakin' HUGE.  :`
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on February 18, 2017, 07:04:00 AM
That's strange, he's not on the UK site! :? What's $50 in pounds?......just checked, that's £29 for a single miniature! :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 18, 2017, 07:46:31 AM
I reckon it will be 20 pounds before Southern hemisphere markup.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on February 18, 2017, 10:09:11 AM
There is some charm to the older models.  It's probably more than a little nostalgia but looking at this model I don't understand why.  Why couldn't they retain the iconic styled armour and equipment but place the model in a more dynamic, inspiring pose?  Models of Slambo's vintage were static so they could be cast from a single mold which brings me to another why.  Why is this a multi-part kit? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on February 18, 2017, 10:09:19 AM
£15 on the uk site, and he's resin, a must buy this one for me
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 18, 2017, 12:35:13 PM
Just pre-ordered the Vanguard-Palladors and Lord-Aquilor.

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/230x238/99120218022_PalladorsVanguard01.jpg)

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/230x238/99120218020_LordAquillar02.jpg)

Have got to be the best Stormcast put out so far.  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 18, 2017, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: horridperson on February 18, 2017, 10:09:11 AM
There is some charm to the older models.  It's probably more than a little nostalgia but looking at this model I don't understand why.  Why couldn't they retain the iconic styled armour and equipment but place the model in a more dynamic, inspiring pose?  Models of Slambo's vintage were static so they could be cast from a single mold which brings me to another why.  Why is this a multi-part kit? 

He wouldn't be Slambo if he wasn't in Slambo's pose. While the armour, helmet and boots combo is iconic, he's gotta be slamboing. Boris's version might borrow the look, but he's not Slambo and not half as cool.

The new version isn't perfect, but I gave in and ordered him. Now I want a new version of Gladstone the Large. Though I guess then his name wouldn't be ironic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 18, 2017, 12:48:14 PM
I went with the box of old models dressed up as old Warhammer Quest that's trying to please everyone that bitched about Silver Tower not being old Warhammer Quest but that won't please any of those people anyway.  lol

The new SC are very nice but I think I'll wait and see if GW put together a bargain price collection later in the year. If they do that with Tzeentch I'm screwed.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on February 18, 2017, 12:54:04 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 18, 2017, 12:48:14 PM
The new SC are very nice but I think I'll wait and see if GW put together a bargain price collection later in the year. If they do that with Tzeentch I'm screwed.  :D

The monthly budget screamed: BUY THEM NOW! So I did.

As for Tzeentch... it's only a matter of time. Some great minis in that collection. Have a couple projects that need to get finished first, then they are a sure buy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on February 18, 2017, 01:07:07 PM
Yeah, I can see a Tzeentch army project later this year... :( :D

Went to Warhammer World for the first time yesterday evening while the kids went to a concert in Nottingham.  Brilliant place!  Food was nice, shops are dangerously good, the gaming hall is ace.  Saving the exhibitions for another visit.

Spent my pennies on the Rogue Trader reprint - fond memories!

Just when you think GW are learning though, I saw the new Dwarf goat riders for the Hobbit... £45 for 3 cavalry models in 28mm  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 18, 2017, 01:07:48 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on February 18, 2017, 12:54:04 PM
The monthly budget screamed: BUY THEM NOW! So I did.

As for Tzeentch... it's only a matter of time. Some great minis in that collection. Have a couple projects that need to get finished first, then they are a sure buy.

My monthly budget screamed NO! But I wanted the free GM's screen... and Slambo. I bet he'll have rules in WD for use in WQ at some point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 18, 2017, 01:08:50 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on February 18, 2017, 01:07:07 PM
Just when you think GW are learning though, I saw the new Dwarf goat riders for the Hobbit... £45 for 3 cavalry models in 28mm  ;D

FW resin though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on February 18, 2017, 03:01:26 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 18, 2017, 01:08:50 PM
FW resin though.

Well, just FW  ;)  Although Scibor's goat riders are currently €35 for 3 and Unreleased Minis will sell you 4 in metal for £42.

Beautiful models though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 18, 2017, 03:13:38 PM
Thankfully I have no interest in LotR (never seen the films or read the book!). Now, when the new edition of 40K comes out I might be in trouble.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on February 18, 2017, 03:32:15 PM
Yeah, it does say something about them that I'm still kind of "well maybe one day..." over the models  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on February 18, 2017, 06:14:41 PM
Hmm... The new Slambo does have better proportioned axes, but to me it seems a little strange that the 'improved' Slambo looks pretty much like the old one, except a little less characterful. I always thought that the chaos exhalted lord with two axes was the improved Slambo. I have never been a fan of the Slambo pose- it seemed to be the perfect miniature to highlight the problem with most due weld miniatures to be honest. I may be interested if GW produce improved versions of some of the other classic chaos warriors but there is still the resin issue, I guess that they mean finecast?...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on February 18, 2017, 07:39:59 PM
I'm not into Tzeentch but seeing those figures give me hope that Grandfather Nurgle will get the same treatment as them and the servants of the blood god.  Once I set eyes on those putrefying meatbags I'll have to go all in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on February 18, 2017, 08:28:26 PM
I have been gradually assembling a Tzeentch for a few years now. So far the only Newhammer models I have in it are the familiars from  Silver Tower which I got on ebay. But that may well change. The gaunt summoner and one or two other things look nice.

I may have a go at making my own Magnus the Red some day, since the citadel versions do not portray him how I imagine him at all.

Also, I was thinking, in the Lost and The Damned book there is a chaos reward called "face of Tzeentch", but there is no miniature for that. It would be nice to have one, i think that could look cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 19, 2017, 01:05:27 PM
Quote from: Andym on February 18, 2017, 07:04:00 AM
That's strange, he's not on the UK site! :? What's $50 in pounds?......just checked, that's £29 for a single miniature! :o


Yeah this guy's price point is obscene! And the model is terribly mediocre even.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 19, 2017, 01:57:28 PM
Quote from: grant on February 19, 2017, 01:05:27 PM

Yeah this guy's price point is obscene! And the model is terribly mediocre even.


Are we on about this guy? https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Slambo-Exalted-Hero (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Slambo-Exalted-Hero)

If so it is on the UK webstore and as has been mentioned already he's £15 and resin.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on February 19, 2017, 02:39:54 PM
Ouch! You guys down under REALLY get done by! That £15 is a BIG  difference to the $50 in New Zealand! :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 19, 2017, 03:14:48 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 19, 2017, 01:57:28 PM

Are we on about this guy? https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Slambo-Exalted-Hero (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Slambo-Exalted-Hero)

If so it is on the UK webstore and as has been mentioned already he's £15 and resin.

$30 Canadian though... yup same old symmetrical slambo.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 19, 2017, 04:10:46 PM
I'm prepping the original Slambo right now for painting next week!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 19, 2017, 05:53:20 PM
TALISMAN!!!

 :o


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/19/talisman-update/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/19/talisman-update/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on February 19, 2017, 06:04:53 PM
Cool always wanted to play that game
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 19, 2017, 06:58:24 PM
Quote from: Andym on February 19, 2017, 02:39:54 PM
Ouch! You guys down under REALLY get done by! That £15 is a BIG  difference to the $50 in New Zealand! :o
yep. If ever I really want something from them I usually buy from the UK and get it sent to a Package forwarding company. Worked out cheaper for Spacehulk.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on February 19, 2017, 08:47:28 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 19, 2017, 05:53:20 PM
TALISMAN!!!

 :o


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/19/talisman-update/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/19/talisman-update/)

Interesting! But surely FFG saturated the Talisman market? I wouldn't mind seeing a GW version of Relic, too. I enjoyed that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 19, 2017, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on February 19, 2017, 08:47:28 PM
Interesting! But surely FFG saturated the Talisman market? I wouldn't mind seeing a GW version of Relic, too. I enjoyed that.

I doubt they mopped up the GW market though. A nice shiny GW release with nice models would be a great alternative. It'll interesting to see whether they stick with generic fantasy or AoS it. Either way I'm happy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 20, 2017, 12:23:31 AM
It's frustrating as I bought the FFG latest edition of Talisman a few months before the announcement and then all the expansions were no longer printed and were snapped up so I've just been left with the base game (which I'm okay with).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 20, 2017, 01:31:33 AM
A lot of people got bit like that - I have the WHQ card game (which was absolutely based on future expansions...) and got nothing.  I ended up making up a bunch of my own monsters/quests/heroes to flesh it out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 20, 2017, 04:12:31 AM
 :'(
Well at least the talisman doesn't really need expansions. I play it so irregularly that I don't think I will really need expansions. At least until my kids are old enough to play it. Which could actually be quite soon judging by how quick they are getting at cottoning on to new games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 20, 2017, 02:42:28 PM
They'll have to go some way to make the figures any worse or the art any more naff than the FFG version...

Is it actually any fun to play?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on February 20, 2017, 04:02:27 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on February 20, 2017, 02:42:28 PM
Is it actually any fun to play?

If you like Ludo with prettier playing pieces then you will probably like it, but it is basically 'roll a d6 and hope you roll high'.

You can probably tell from that statement that I have no time for it, or Relic, but plenty of people, including most of my gaming group, do like it.
Horses for courses and all that.
 ;)

(Of course, having said that, I absolutely adore the original quirky figures for the game when it was first released in the 80's and would get it for them of they were redone in a similar style. Which aint ever likely to happen given that Silver Tower was  AOS-styled.....



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 20, 2017, 04:07:31 PM
I've never really cared about Talisman.  I know it has a charm of the old days, but as a game it's pretty meh.  I'll be skipping this one (though it could sell well if it sticks to the Old World and actually releases some new plastic figures).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 20, 2017, 06:10:49 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on February 20, 2017, 02:42:28 PM
They'll have to go some way to make the figures any worse or the art any more naff than the FFG version...

Is it actually any fun to play?

I think the FFG artwork is rather nice on all the Talisman sets. The models are 98% shite admittedly, but there are a few good ones in the last couple of sets (for bendy plastics anyway).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on February 20, 2017, 06:27:10 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 20, 2017, 04:07:31 PM
I've never really cared about Talisman.  I know it has a charm of the old days, but as a game it's pretty meh.  I'll be skipping this one (though it could sell well if it sticks to the Old World and actually releases some new plastic figures).

I agree.  It's fun the first few times but then you realise there are not very many meaningful decisions to be made.  And it's very easy for a group of experienced players to stop anyone winning.  I've seen games go on for days with the winner being the last player to lose the will to keep going.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 04, 2017, 08:13:26 PM
Triumvirate of the Primarch up for pre-order - pre-order (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Gathering-Storm-Triumvirate-of-the-primarch)

Maybe it's a sign of the times, but £55 for 3 figures doesn't actually sound too bad o_o

However, given that the primarch is on a 60mm dia base, that's one large figure :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 04, 2017, 08:22:37 PM
Quote from: zemjw on March 04, 2017, 08:13:26 PM
Triumvirate of the Primarch up for pre-order - pre-order (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Gathering-Storm-Triumvirate-of-the-primarch)

Maybe it's a sign of the times, but £55 for 3 figures doesn't actually sound too bad o_o

However, given that the primarch is on a 60mm dia base, that's one large figure :o

£44 from Wayland.

I rather like the two chaps with the primarch. In fact I prefer them to him.

Cue the outrage at the price tag or the 'it's not what it was in my day' comments.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on March 05, 2017, 12:26:21 PM
I really don't like all the fussy detail on most of the recent models from GW.  That Primarch looks like a right mess.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on March 05, 2017, 02:40:11 PM
Um £55.  Wow.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 05, 2017, 05:55:44 PM
Guilliman's expression looks like as if he's smelling something really unpleasant...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on March 05, 2017, 06:44:52 PM
He's smelling heresy!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 05, 2017, 07:04:33 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on March 04, 2017, 08:22:37 PM
£44 from Wayland.

I rather like the two chaps with the primarch. In fact I prefer them to him.

Cue the outrage at the price tag or the 'it's not what it was in my day' comments.  ;)

I agree. I'm not a huge fan of the Prinarchs,  in particular his head. The other two are pretty nice. In particular Cypher. He's needed a good model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 05, 2017, 08:27:36 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on March 05, 2017, 06:44:52 PM
He's smelling heresy!

Five minutes experiencing the Imperium in the 40th Millennium would cause any primarch to make that face ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 05, 2017, 08:41:09 PM
You don't need to use the face, just build it the helmet version ;)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/RobouteGuillimanHelmetContent-1.jpg)

I read that the parts can be easily swapped anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 05, 2017, 09:11:37 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on March 05, 2017, 08:41:09 PM
You don't need to use the face, just build it the helmet version ;)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/RobouteGuillimanHelmetContent-1.jpg)

I read that the parts can be easily swapped anyway.

I do prefer that
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on March 06, 2017, 05:00:56 AM
Helmeted version much nicer
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on March 06, 2017, 07:53:43 AM
Outrage at the price tag and 'it's not what it was in my day' comment, as per Stone-cold-lead''s request. :D

But I do like the model.
It is what I think a primarch should look like and partly makes me wish Sanguinius wasn't dead-dead.
Cypher is pretty cool to.
The grey knight is, well I like grey knight, but he's not very special a grey knight in my eyes. Still nice enough.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on March 07, 2017, 01:17:58 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on March 06, 2017, 07:53:43 AM

It is what I think a primarch should look like and partly makes me wish Sanguinius wasn't dead-dead.

Only dead until they decide to bring him back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 07, 2017, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on March 07, 2017, 01:17:58 PM
Only dead until they decide to bring him back.

Well, if any primarch can pull a vampire "not dead but sleeping" it would be him.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on March 07, 2017, 05:21:02 PM
True, I suppose.
And then I'd still wonder if I'd buy him.
The new fluff does have me kind of curious what's gonna happen next.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 07, 2017, 05:25:14 PM
I rather like the Cypher model, and I suspect he's going to be a major factor in sales of this box.
I don't mind Marneus, but I don't think I'd enjoy painting his armour, too elaborate. And I don't go for flaming swords much; but that's my personal view.
I did get the nice little set of gryph hounds, and couldn't resist Slambo, either - the latter in particular: I love classic chaos, and he's quite close to that description, if bigger; and the model with it's nice clean surfaces should be fun to paint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Humorous_Conclusion on March 08, 2017, 01:17:05 PM
Helmeted Gulliman makes me think of Optimus Prime for some reason.

I think it's a shame they had to bring back the most vanilla and uninteresting Primarch. Given this is all about Chaos, they should have brought back Leman Russ seen as he's supposed to be not dead but lost in the Warp. Still, if they've done one, maybe they'll do more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 08, 2017, 01:19:57 PM
I just received the Vanguard-Palladors and Lord-Aquilor mini.  :o

Great sculpts! They are, IMO, probably the best fantasy miniatures I have ever seen. Take that anyway you want, as I'm not a fantasy person in general.

I think I'll be using the lances for my Palladors, but the axes are really cool too. I'm sure I'll find some use for them in the future.

Also worth noting is that the construction instructions are now color printed booklets which, of course, contains the rules and stats for the minis. Very nicely done.

Can't wait to get at them, but have a bunch of minis to finish off first.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on March 08, 2017, 03:19:37 PM
Quote from: Humorous_Conclusion on March 08, 2017, 01:17:05 PM
I think it's a shame they had to bring back the most vanilla and uninteresting Primarch. Given this is all about Chaos, they should have brought back Leman Russ seen as he's supposed to be not dead but lost in the Warp. Still, if they've done one, maybe they'll do more.

Simple marketing reason for bringing this one back is that the Ultramarines are and will be GW's poster boys. However, there's an interesting 'fluffy' explanation in the recent White Dwarf: Any other primarch would probably have outright rejected to cooperate with the Imperium in its current state. In the light of this Leman Russ is explicitly mentioned as a poor alternative.

Neither a fan of the Ultras nor the Imperium – heck, nor the game as such! – these latest developments really caught my interest.
And I may have preordered the boxed set…
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 08, 2017, 10:30:33 PM
I'm not one for 40K myself, but all this plot business has also piqued my interest...

...not enough to add to my grey mountain, but enough to look.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 10, 2017, 04:16:20 PM
Appears a new starter box set including the Sisters of Silence and Custodian Guards are inbound.

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/TalonsOfTheEmperorContent.jpg)

Also appears that 5 figure box sets of both of these units will be coming as well. I may not be able to resist the unit sets...

I also picked up on a really vague rumor that GW may possibly be working on a "NEW" Space Marine to be release towards the end of the year... what-ever that means.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 10, 2017, 05:39:59 PM
A gold land raider?  :o
I remember the days when the Ultramarines had bling....!
Is it my eyes, or are AoS and 40K converging in more than one way?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 10, 2017, 05:46:28 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 10, 2017, 04:16:20 PM
Appears a new starter box set including the Sisters of Silence and Custodian Guards are inbound.

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/TalonsOfTheEmperorContent.jpg)

Also appears that 5 figure box sets of both of these units will be coming as well. I may not be able to resist the unit sets...

I also picked up on a really vague rumor that GW may possibly be working on a "NEW" Space Marine to be release towards the end of the year... what-ever that means.

God that box is going to sell well..I can already feel the stress of handling the preorders for it....


The new marine rumour seems to suggest that Rowboat Grillmaster is going to take up the mantle of warlord of the imperium and bring in some of that great crusade style technological advancement, Pushing mars to release plans that had been put on hold since the heresy for new marks of armour.

The chances are these will be a similar scale to the custodes mini's, suitably blingy , and act as an extra elite unit alongside the standard astartes.
Personally I think they will be GW's way of getting their marines to true scale without invalidating the entire old marine range, By releasing a technically elite box that people will just use to play as true scale models.


I also have a pet theory that 8th Ed will be a smaller scale of game that current 40k, Or at the very least scale down better than it currently does, in a similar manner to AoS. So we might see a future where 40k can be played between two armies of no more than 15 models and between two armies of hundreds of models using the same ruleset.
If you look at the latests faction releases (deathwatch, genestealer cults, fallen, thousand sons, custodes...All armies that can be played with smaller forces and then fit into larger armies. My prediction is that the 8th ed starter box will be similar to the death masque box and that will be the scale that 40k is marketed at, with everything else being a goal for larger games.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 10, 2017, 05:48:21 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on March 10, 2017, 05:39:59 PM
A gold land raider?  :o
I remember the days when the Ultramarines had bling....!
Is it my eyes, or are AoS and 40K converging in more than one way?

I really do think that Games Workshop has what I'd call an overall 'Neo-Baroque' aesthetic running through their output over the last couple of years. The predominant use of gold, flowing ornamentation, convoluted poses, and overall theatricality appear to be present in AoS and recent 40K releases.

Quote
Personally I think they will be GW's way of getting their marines to true scale without invalidating the entire old marine range, By releasing a technically elite box that people will just use to play as true scale models.

That's what I have been thinking as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on March 10, 2017, 07:32:22 PM
2017 marks the 30th anniversary of 40k. For most of this time the Space Marine sculpts have been more or less the same. In particular if compared to more recent designs by GW, they show their age. Space Marines are still a favourite of many, many people and a unique selling point, therefore GW won't phase them out completely. But I can see them slowly shifting the angle towards more modern looking designs for the 43rd millenium while separating the traditional look into a reinforced 'historical' range for the Horus Heresy and its aftermath.
There's definitely room for improvement with the older sculpts – as shown by the latest Deathwatch releases and Marine character models which are noticeably bigger and more 'in scale'. I'm looking forward to what they come up with.

PS: The Adeptus Custodes design is not that new, the actual box artwork comes from the late 90s or early 2000's. The pseudo-Christian or 'Neo-Baroque' tone associated with the Imperium is even older. I would rather think that GW now have the ability to produce kits closely resembling what Blanche and others have envisioned already decades ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on March 10, 2017, 11:49:10 PM
Are those custodies different figures than the ones in Burning of Prospero? They look like different poses anyway.
What are the smaller figures? I read somewhere they were Sisters of Silence but they don't look anything like the BoP figures either.

edit: Nevermind. I didn't realize the BoP figures were multipose.I thought they were like most of the character figures in the boxed games and they  only went together one way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 11, 2017, 01:22:27 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on March 10, 2017, 05:39:59 PM
A gold land raider?

Well... I would paint it purple with gold insignia in line with the Sisters of Battle I have already painted.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 11, 2017, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 10, 2017, 05:46:28 PM
God that box is going to sell well..I can already feel the stress of handling the preorders for it....

Excellent observations concerning the direction GW may be heading.

Think you might have nailed it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 11, 2017, 01:34:30 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 11, 2017, 01:25:27 PM
Excellent observations concerning the direction GW may be heading.

Think you might have nailed it.

Despite my dislike of the custodes being put into the game (I have my reasons and they are many) I really do love GW and want them to carry on doing great stuff.

So I say this as someone who supports what they're doing for the most part... SLOW DOWN! You're going to give me a heart attack before i turn 25 handling all these pre orders for these new box sets! On release days I physically can't move fast enough to keep the shelves stocked with the new triumvirate boxes and books.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 11, 2017, 01:41:08 PM
I had wondered if perhaps the Custodes might be morphed into a 'New Marines'- style faction, since both they and Stormcast, and to a lesser extent the Deathwatch, show GW is desperate to make bigger marines. But if they actually do make New Marines, all the better. Under the chintz, and aside from the slightly awkward shoulder/arm join, the Custodes are great figures. If New Marines can match that but with less bling I'll have to get some.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on March 11, 2017, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 11, 2017, 01:34:30 PM

Despite my dislike of the custodes being put into the game (I have my reasons and they are many) I really do love GW and want them to carry on doing great stuff.

I probably agree with most of your reasons, but they were actually statted up in Rogue Trader back in 1987!  Mind you, they only wore underpants and a helmet back then  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 11, 2017, 03:42:18 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on March 11, 2017, 02:13:18 PM
I probably agree with most of your reasons, but they were actually statted up in Rogue Trader back in 1987!  Mind you, they only wore underpants and a helmet back then  :D

And if they did that now I'd probably be less bothered by them! :)

Mostly it's the same reason I don't get along with the fleshing out of the Horus heresy through games.for me 40k is all about fluff and the grand setting, and having everything stated removes all ambiguity from that. I no longer hear arguments about whether x could beat x come down to stories or fluf speculation, but instead it all just gets resolved with boring stat crunching.

A perfect example came up the other day when forge world asked on facebook who would win out of a custodes dreadnought and a nurgle monster. Rather than people going with fluff or rooting for their favorite, everyone was just quoting figures at each other.

For me having everything stated up removes all speculation and mystery from the game universe. I know I'm going to be in a minority that cares more about keeping the setting rich and opaque, But when people can't have fun arguing about whether the emperor could beat demon magnus ,then I feel we've lost something.
(the fact that we're going to get stats for the emperor hurts me.)

(As a side note, i'm seeing more calls for 40k to be more realistic and stop being so silly and gothic on forums like dakka dakka. These people need to play something else and I'll fight anyone who agrees with them.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 11, 2017, 06:53:03 PM
I'm In agreement. It is the same for any world created whether it be tabletop game, computer game or book. Keeping a sense of mystery over some things let's people imagine it in their own way (to some degree). When it comes to the emporer he is meant to be this supreme creation. Providing stats for him will show strengths and weaknesses. Also the stats in 40k have limits to them. Surely someone of his power should be beyond these limits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on March 11, 2017, 07:12:00 PM
It's in the nature of long-running geek media, I think.  A need to produce material to satisfy fan hunger.

Star Trek and Star Wars all suffered from massive setting bloat over the years (not to mention the Marvel and DC universes).  Given the nature of every media, a fair chunk of it was bound to be rubbish or contentious (or both), and eventually you find that every story has been told several times over for every character.  And of course every character has MET every other character - the universe becomes small, cramped.

Interesting that ST and SW have both had massive reboots, declaring a vast amount of material either non-canon or "in another universe".

One of the things I love about the 40k universe (and also Gates of Antares) is the notion that vast areas of former empires remain totally unknown.  They're for players to explore and make heir own stories and campaigns in.

Gaming universe resets have something of a chequered history, and the potential for a new direction to go totally wrong is, of course, very high.  Traveller's Virus, which played havoc with 15 years' worth of gaming campaigns was never entirely welcome, nor Age of Sigmar's destruction of the Old World (30 years' worth in that case).  Both were great new worlds to explore in their own right, but I reckon such radical revisions are best spun off as new gaming universes without touching the old.  I dunno, maybe the fans don't stop asking for the old stuff back unless authors say "it's gone forever".

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 11, 2017, 10:17:11 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on March 11, 2017, 07:12:00 PM
It's in the nature of long-running geek media, I think.  A need to produce material to satisfy fan hunger.

Star Trek and Star Wars all suffered from massive setting bloat over the years (not to mention the Marvel and DC universes).  Given the nature of every media, a fair chunk of it was bound to be rubbish or contentious (or both), and eventually you find that every story has been told several times over for every character.  And of course every character has MET every other character - the universe becomes small, cramped.

Interesting that ST and SW have both had massive reboots, declaring a vast amount of material either non-canon or "in another universe".

One of the things I love about the 40k universe (and also Gates of Antares) is the notion that vast areas of former empires remain totally unknown.  They're for players to explore and make heir own stories and campaigns in.

Gaming universe resets have something of a chequered history, and the potential for a new direction to go totally wrong is, of course, very high.  Traveller's Virus, which played havoc with 15 years' worth of gaming campaigns was never entirely welcome, nor Age of Sigmar's destruction of the Old World (30 years' worth in that case).  Both were great new worlds to explore in their own right, but I reckon such radical revisions are best spun off as new gaming universes without touching the old.  I dunno, maybe the fans don't stop asking for the old stuff back unless authors say "it's gone forever".




I think it's just that. The fans want this stuff because they of course want more of the thing they love. The issue is that the only way to add things like the emperor is either with novels (like the new one which has had fairly good reviews and i will read.) or collectable models, but people will always want to have these things in the game which they feel is the point of the universes existence.

Part of what makes middle earth great is that while you engage with the personal actions of heros, you also get a glimpse at a vast and often ruined world that hints at ancient stories. Part of the fun is not in reading, But in letting your mind wander through the barrows and ruins of arnor and speculate about what could have laid these lands so low.It's why some people (not me) don't really enjoy ther extended tales. 40k is the same , and I think the reason why things like INQ28 and inquisimunda have really taken off lately has been that those who love the universe have found it to be a good reaction against games workshops desire to add clarity to the setting through grand events.
It still allows them to engage with the hobby and setting they love in the tolkien way, A personal , small scope view of a vast and unknowable universe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 12, 2017, 05:33:47 PM
BTW...

Anybody know how the Custodes and Stormcast scale?

Are they the same height?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 12, 2017, 09:50:46 PM
On the bloat point:
I fully understand the fans' desire to know more about a cool setting. What I don't get is why fans can't just make it up themselves. I guess then you can't win internet arguments. But for me, part of the fun is seeing other people's different interpretations of fluff. I don't mind "canon" answers, but I find other interpretations can be even more interesting. True-scale Space Marines are a case in point: personally, they're not for me, as I found other interpretations of the RT-era fluff more interesting than the story GW subsequently told. 

All fiction necessarily leaves gaps, and there isn't any right answer to fill those gaps - just more or less interesting stories. Tom Stoppard's play "Rosancrantz and Guildenstern" really hammered this home for me. (For those who may be unfamiliar with it, he takes two minor characters from Hamlet and makes a play about what they were up to when they weren't appearing in the plot of Hamlet - it is well worth checking out).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on March 12, 2017, 10:36:40 PM
I'm most interested in the fringes of any imagined universe.  The undefined edges are where you get to create your own stories/legends.  A clearly defined "center" doesn't interefere with my own canon and a universe with edges full of unknown vagaries works just fine.  I appreciated Star Trek's Enterprise so I've never had a problem with 40k demystifying links to the past.  It's all good unless it's really poor storytelling like Star Wars.  It wasn't the act;  It was the execution.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 13, 2017, 12:41:13 AM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 12, 2017, 05:33:47 PM
BTW...

Anybody know how the Custodes and Stormcast scale?

Are they the same height?

Judging by this mash-up, they scale well with each other I'd say:

(http://i.imgur.com/SJr02DY.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 13, 2017, 12:48:21 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 13, 2017, 12:41:13 AM
Judging by this mash-up, they scale well with each other I'd say

Ah!

Thanks!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on March 13, 2017, 07:27:29 AM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 12, 2017, 05:33:47 PM
BTW...

Anybody know how the Custodes and Stormcast scale?

Are they the same height?
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 13, 2017, 12:41:13 AM
Judging by this mash-up, they scale well with each other I'd say:

I'm pretty sure they're based off the same greenstuff dolls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 13, 2017, 09:14:08 AM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on March 13, 2017, 07:27:29 AM
I'm pretty sure they're based off the same greenstuff dolls.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on March 13, 2017, 06:32:21 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on March 13, 2017, 09:14:08 AM
lol

You know what I mean. :p

Same CAD doll.

Speaking of which, I'm quite happy with the way GW does it. Corvus Belli (Infinity guys) seem to do random sizes in terms of scale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 13, 2017, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on March 13, 2017, 06:32:21 PM
You know what I mean. :p

Same CAD doll.

Speaking of which, I'm quite happy with the way GW does it. Corvus Belli (Infinity guys) seem to do random sizes in terms of scale.

 :D

The last lost of Infinity models I painted seemed a bit smaller than some of the other ones I'd done. Not a fan of scale shrink. Sometimes I suspect it's sculptors trying to show off with how tiny they can make things (and some people buy into the bullshit and think they're getting quality because it's teeny weeny!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on March 13, 2017, 09:11:25 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on March 13, 2017, 08:53:33 PM
:D

The last lost of Infinity models I painted seemed a bit smaller than some of the other ones I'd done. Not a fan of scale shrink. Sometimes I suspect it's sculptors trying to show off with how tiny they can make things (and some people buy into the bullshit and think they're getting quality because it's teeny weeny!).

It's not scale shrink, it's just the fact they outsource their modelling and no one seems to do any quality assurance on the scale. Models after Operation Icestorm are actually bigger in scale on average, but no one bothers to check the differences.

I mean, it's easily excusable just through saying "Oh gene manipulation" or something but it still irritates me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 13, 2017, 10:07:31 PM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on March 13, 2017, 09:11:25 PM
It's not scale shrink, it's just the fact they outsource their modelling and no one seems to do any quality assurance on the scale. Models after Operation Icestorm are actually bigger in scale on average, but no one bothers to check the differences.

I mean, it's easily excusable just through saying "Oh gene manipulation" or something but it still irritates me.

There are a lot of quality assurance issues with Infinity models that I could point out to Corvus Belli. Assembling their models is a chore at best whereas I look at modern day GW sprues and really want to put the models together. One reason why CB have got none of my money and GW have (a lot).  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 13, 2017, 11:15:46 PM
The Infinity mini's are awesome.

But, agreed, they are tiny weeny and putting them together can cause the clinching of teeth.

If they were at least 10% bigger I would have bought more than just a single one off buy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 14, 2017, 11:47:04 AM
I'm quite happy with the size of the current Infinity figures, but I intensely dislike the size differences between the same weapons on different models.

Whilst I suppose that in the future weapons could be slightly scaled to better suit users who are significantly outside the normal distribution curve, I cannot imagine that everyone having a personalised custom-scaled weapon is very logistically effective. It also makes conversions unbelievably difficult.

The other thing that rather annoys me is the very limited number of unique models in the current boxed sets. I get that for the weapons to have some interchangeability between then sculpts there needs to effectively be fewer significant differences, but the bodies are normally identical - not even variation in things like pouches, straps, equipment, etc. A great pity, as I would think that having all these digital sculpts would actually make this sort of thing easier.

Anyway, that's Infinity, and so not really appropriate in this thread.  ::)

Moving on, there appears to be an image of a new "Space Marine 2.0" figure floating around:

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1DTrWHV5hYs/WMP8hDzhGdI/AAAAAAAADpU/bzQtc9dB1Acdgdeir_d7qfiIODZKhLvGwCLcB/s1600/14717146_1390494827679535_4281314413960916357_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 14, 2017, 01:19:43 PM
Yeah, that's caused a damn firestorm on places like Dakka - whether it's real or not. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 14, 2017, 06:10:02 PM
This looks rubbish at first glance, but apparently it's a big box of multilevel terrain (and scouts and orks) using the Necromunda rules for multi-race skirmish.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/14/new-game-announced-at-gama-trade-show/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/14/new-game-announced-at-gama-trade-show/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 14, 2017, 06:25:37 PM
On the face of it, that's awfully "meh" and I think we're looking at something more akin to Gangs of Comorragh(?) than a proper Necromunda replacement.  My money's on a handful of old plastic scout and ork sprues (both dated and mediocre) and some terrain sprues for $60.  It could just be a super "meh" game which is really another GW clandestine sale mechanic.  Note they never have sales or discounts but they randomly package up boxed games/forces which are genuinely decent deals.

I doubt we're looking at a Necromunda succesor.  Only thing which would interest me would be new quality plastic/card terrain --- but we have so many MDF sources for that it'd have to be damn good.  My money's on a simple $60 boxed game as an excuse to get a bunch of scouts/ork boys for cheap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 14, 2017, 06:26:59 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on March 14, 2017, 06:10:02 PM
This looks rubbish at first glance, but apparently it's a big box of multilevel terrain (and scouts and orks) using the Necromunda rules for multi-race skirmish.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/14/new-game-announced-at-gama-trade-show/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/14/new-game-announced-at-gama-trade-show/)

OK, that would be the Necromunda that everyone was expecting.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 14, 2017, 06:31:54 PM
The GW rep on the Dice Tower stream did specifically say the it was based on Necromunda and that rules for all factions/ races were included in the box, which is big apparently. Mind you, he did seem a bit vague on things in general so who knows.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on March 14, 2017, 06:40:42 PM
It would only really be worth it if we get some nice new plastics. If it is just a rehash with reboxed old crap, will probably give it a pass.  It is mouthwatering to think what they could do with their current quality level for some plastic gangers...  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 14, 2017, 06:54:03 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on March 14, 2017, 06:31:54 PM
The GW rep on the Dice Tower stream did specifically say the it was based on Necromunda and that rules for all factions/ races were included in the box, which is big apparently. Mind you, he did seem a bit vague on things in general so who knows.

Could be neat. If they are being fluff-oriented on this, there were some interesting things showing up in the Armageddon book(s). Adepta Sororitas, Assassins, several marine factions, Officio Sabatorum, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 14, 2017, 08:58:55 PM
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/17310179_558928370898116_7521405272834199725_o.jpg?oh=c7a2ad0d907231610194ba74fdd0f22c&oe=595A471F)

If it's another £35 cheapie then I'll likely grab a copy for the sake of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 14, 2017, 09:33:59 PM
That's...all the terrain?  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 14, 2017, 09:39:02 PM
Someone said it's not all the terrain, but that would make it a weird product shot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 14, 2017, 10:02:28 PM
It's intriguing as it looks like it could be plastic terrain, but if it is then it might have a higher price tag. Not sure what to think of that now. 90 quid for fancy terrain but only a handful of old models...? Unless it's Blood Bowl price? Bloody teases!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 15, 2017, 03:28:11 AM
Games workshop put out a bunch of annoucnements at 2 in the morning and the internet bust a collective nut.

Necromunda rules reworked into a kill team style squad game with planned organised play.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/15/war-returns-to-armageddon/

New sky pirate dwarves,
Plus a reboxing of the aos starter set into coloured sprues cheaper box with cardboard terrain.
Plus something that seems suspiciously like an AoS mordheim relaunch...
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/15/a-new-race-descends-on-the-mortal-realms/


I was already dreading the next couple of weeks of pre orders..now I think I need a riot shield for work the way people are raving over those airships and plastic hive scenery.

(I want 2...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 15, 2017, 04:30:22 AM
I can see a whole new breed of Squats on the tables of the future.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on March 15, 2017, 06:39:01 AM
Jesus, those dwarves might have me buying from Games Workshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 15, 2017, 08:55:14 AM
Dwarfcast.  ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 15, 2017, 11:28:39 AM
A picture is worth a thousand words:

(http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/GAMA-KO-ArkanautIronclad-Content.jpg)

Looks like an easy conversion for VSF folks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 15, 2017, 12:24:45 PM
Seen the pics on facebook actually quite like the dwarves,might pick some up depending on prices.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 15, 2017, 12:55:22 PM
April release.

My birthday!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 15, 2017, 02:38:19 PM
If you remove some of the clunk I really really like the dwarfs, but not at all as any kind of fantasy race...they're squats plain and simple.  I think they'll be seeing a TON of non-GW gaming use from people.  I'd definitely consider building up a cool Squat side-force for 2nd ed. 40K.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 15, 2017, 02:45:23 PM
PS: This is a new pic making the rounds and may represent the "real" terrain from the box?  If so, much much better (about double what was shown earlier).  Two or three boxes of this would set up a serious table for those doing the game.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/GAMA-SWA-Scenery-Content.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on March 15, 2017, 02:51:34 PM
Well, don't forget "influenced by"-manufacturers who will certainly release loads and loads of Non-GW terrain pieces. Will get this game for sure  :).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 15, 2017, 02:52:54 PM
I think it's actually the same content as what was shown before, just spread out a bit more. The raised bit on the right is on the end of the other bit in the first image. Does look rather nice though, and beyond the Admech symbols and the massive spider skull, not too many random skulls. I think I'd want to make an in between level with part of the set.

Also, I'm a sucker for a bulkhead door. :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on March 15, 2017, 02:54:00 PM
I'm actually a little disaapointed, but only because ever since the Genestealer Cultist release I've been excited to see what they might do with plastic gangers - seems like the idea with this game is to encourage people to buy a box or two from an army they don't collect (makes sense!) and maybe take a bite of all the stuff going on with Inq28.

It's a great idea and should be loads of fun - I just wanted plastic 'civilians'!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 15, 2017, 02:56:47 PM
I personally won't be getting it as I don't give two sharts about playing 40K small squads in a setting like that.  If it stays around and I ever get into a big Necromunda push I'd consider it for some terrain - but even then it'd have to be better than the loads of MDF options which exist.  As I guessed the "12 factions" represent one squad/model type from each army.  Yawn.

I think it's probably a good entry level thing for new gamers (particularly since scenery is the hardest thing to drum into new player's heads), but as a useful product?  Meh, I'll play Necromunda.

PS: With the new Adeptus Titanicus game I could actually see using some of this terrain --- drop the ladders and remove any scale-indicative bits and you could build a large production world setting using this stuff as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on March 15, 2017, 03:05:33 PM
Not sure I'm keen on the new dwarf stuff
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 15, 2017, 03:59:16 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 15, 2017, 02:38:19 PM
If you remove some of the clunk I really really like the dwarfs, but not at all as any kind of fantasy race...they're squats plain and simple.  I think they'll be seeing a TON of non-GW gaming use from people.  I'd definitely consider building up a cool Squat side-force for 2nd ed. 40K.
Yeah I think they would suit a more mining influenced squat force.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 15, 2017, 04:11:29 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on March 15, 2017, 03:05:33 PM
Not sure I'm keen on the new dwarf stuff

I'll probably buy the ships and convert them to VSF.

Overall though, the release is a pretty remarkable by GW and is pretty "out of left field" for them. And that is kewl!

There is also a new AoS starter box coming as well with Khorne cast in red and the Stormcast cast in Gold. Now that is a "starter" box, where folks only need to put together the minis and can then start playing.

The amount of stuff coming out this year is just... well... staggering.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 15, 2017, 04:44:40 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 15, 2017, 04:11:29 PM
I'll probably buy the ships and convert them to VSF.

I was just thinking that the AoS stuff veers more and more in the steam punk direction. Not necessarily bad, as it befits the 'baroque' style better.

I'd never finish assembling and painting one of those airships, though. I already dread assembling the 5 Mantic Forge Father Steel Warriors I dug out earlier today, to give me some much needed diversion from painting Vikings  lol Too many parts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 15, 2017, 05:01:08 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 15, 2017, 04:11:29 PM
The amount of stuff coming out this year is just... well... staggering.

I can't keep up, that's for sure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 15, 2017, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on March 15, 2017, 03:59:16 PM
Yeah I think they would suit a more mining influenced squat force.

I am certainly considering getting hold of some as I think these are some of the best things that GW have released in a long time.
In fact, I must admit, I am surprised at just how much I am liking quite a few things that they have released lately.
First the Gryph Hounds and now these.

I shall look forward to seeing the price point at the discounters and may cave and buy something, other than their old washes, from them for the first time in about a decade.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 15, 2017, 09:33:56 PM
My one large disappointment looking back at the dwarfs is that the balloons for their airships are not fabric/cloth (i.e. something useful in far more kit-bashes for a variety of things).  The floating metal orbs w/ cannons is a bit much.  I'd like to see someone take the kits and tone them down immensely to something more palatable.  I think there is a huge source of "bits" here though.  I already started looking at 2nd ed. Squat rules...(sigh)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on March 15, 2017, 10:36:13 PM
 MOM miniatures have a great looking Dwarf Airship coming out soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fred on March 15, 2017, 10:47:23 PM
Those squat/dwarf airships are pretty cool. I was struggling to tell if they were fantasy or scifi at first.

Do you think with AoS they are going for a convergence of WH and 40k?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 15, 2017, 11:19:35 PM
The whole aim of AoS at the moment is to create "unique" GW-only IP products.  Within a year or two you'll see no links to "classic" fantasy anymore.  Classical or historical fantasy can't be copyrighted and protected.

I will say the steam dwarfs look far more sci-fi than they do any kind of fantasy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 15, 2017, 11:41:43 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 15, 2017, 11:19:35 PM
I will say the steam dwarfs look far more sci-fi than they do any kind of fantasy.

I agree.
That is the way I am looking at these at least.

And your earlier comment on 'toning them down' are shared too.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on March 15, 2017, 11:41:59 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 15, 2017, 11:19:35 PM
I will say the steam dwarfs look far more sci-fi than they do any kind of fantasy.

Hmm ... they've got kind of a Philip Pullman vibe, I think. To me, they're far more sci-fi than fantasy - but then 40K is far more fantasy than sci-fi ...

I rather like them. My only real objection would be that the sky-pirate/steampunk stuff is sufficiently interesting for them not to be dwarfs: I'm not sure their short stature really adds much.

The airships will be very handy for Hordes of the Things: airboats are a standard troop type in that game, but one for which there are precious few models ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 16, 2017, 09:38:48 AM
I like the steampunk dwarfs - weird metal balloons and all.

> Are the models a bit busy? Maybe, but I think the chosen colour scheme's probably to blame as well/

> Are they more sci-fi than fantasy? Yes, but that's not unheard of either. I've played lots of computer games with steampunk/clockwork goblins/dwarfs in them, and this fits pretty closely to that aesthetic. Maybe deliberately to attract a new generation who cut their teeth on computer games rather than analogue toys?

> Do they fit AoS? Er, hard to say - it's a very barren game-verse right now, so who knows? Certainly it's very advanced-looking compared to all the other factions we've seen so far, but we've had rumours of this for a *long* time now (along with rumours of huge dwarf golems). We also have the human engineers to come at some point too.


As for the Shadow War... Hmm. Disappointed that it's not actually Necromunda. Also a little disappointed that the opportunity wasn't used used to update some fairly old and horrible kits - but I guess the point of the game is to try and shift them. The terrain looks cool generally, but is once again *really* busy like all their other stuff - that will probably put me off as it has done before (shame :( ). However, I'd definitely still be tempted to see if I can snag the rules pamphlet - I pretty much have everything I need to play otherwise. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 16, 2017, 09:45:25 AM
I think this just reinforces ... if it needed reinforcing ... that GW has now taken its games somewhere else. No point me harping on about the 'good old days' because that genre doesn't exist for GW any more and it's tapping into a different market.

That's okay, that's why the Oldhammer stuff has such a happy little following. Vive la difference and all that. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 16, 2017, 09:54:12 AM
Yes, indeed.

I think that's why I like the dwarf stuff - it's not even trying to be "Warhammer" in my eyes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 16, 2017, 10:32:01 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 16, 2017, 09:54:12 AM
it's not even trying to be "Warhammer" in my eyes.

Indeed,

And that was a major factor of "okay, we ended this here" (end of times) and we start all over again.

Right off, with AoS, GW told folks that instead of building huge same faction armies (like in the old world), you would instead have different forces fighting together in alliances. So when you do your gaming, I could bring my Stormcast and you would bring your Sylvaneth and we would fight on the same side (Order).

I read on another forum about a guy who painted up a 2,000 pt army of Stormcast so he could play AoS with his buds and he stated that he didn't want to paint gold ever the rest of his life. That isn't the way it was supposed to be.

I think I'll probably stop painting Stormcast at about 30 models (just about there) and then change to another faction.

From what I am reading, they are moving in the same direction with 40K.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 16, 2017, 12:22:32 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 16, 2017, 09:38:48 AM

As for the Shadow War... Hmm. Disappointed that it's not actually Necromunda. Also a little disappointed that the opportunity wasn't used used to update some fairly old and horrible kits - but I guess the point of the game is to try and shift them.


I think the point of the game is to sell scenery. That's what many people will be buying it for and just like the Horus Heresy boardgames people will buy multiple sets. Maybe to a lesser extent it'll also act as a replacement for Kill Team which might die out with the new edition of 40K.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on March 16, 2017, 01:28:08 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 16, 2017, 10:32:01 AM
Indeed,

And that was a major factor of "okay, we ended this here" (end of times) and we start all over again.

Right off, with AoS, GW told folks that instead of building huge same faction armies (like in the old world), you would instead have different forces fighting together in alliances. So when you do your gaming, I could bring my Stormcast and you would bring your Sylvaneth and we would fight on the same side (Order).

Oddly enough, that's exactly what Warhammer was originally like. I've just had a glance at The Book of Battalions, a first-edition supplement. Gyokurinti's Raiders, for example, features hobgoblins, trolls, beastmen, chaos warriors, human wizards and a chimera. In second edition, the rules were that neutral forces could be allied with evil or good ones. I think the factional rot crept in with Ravening Hordes.

Also, if you look at some of the photos of early Warhammer games, the forces were far more varied and colourful than later came to be the case. The terrific Dever/Chalk poster that was used to advertise second edition shows an army of lizardmen, orcs, pig-faced orcs (!), hobgoblins, night goblins, great goblins and chaos warriors attacking a fortress.

In second edition (and third too, possibly - I forget), you could stat up anything you liked. I recall seeing an orc riding a huge flightless reptile in some of the photos used to illustrate third edition, for example.

So you could argue that Warhammer is going back to its freewheeling roots, albeit in a steampunky, wide-hipped and heavily armoured fashion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 16, 2017, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 16, 2017, 10:32:01 AM
Right off, with AoS, GW told folks that instead of building huge same faction armies (like in the old world), you would instead have different forces fighting together in alliances. So when you do your gaming, I could bring my Stormcast and you would bring your Sylvaneth and we would fight on the same side (Order).

...And yet, in the stories, battle reports, photographs, displays, etc, it's normally huge armies of mono-subfaction vs mono-subfaction.

I would also gently point out that GW always encouraged players to use alliances (and even back in the days of "Hero Hammer" WHFB 4/5E, the Empire army book had dwarves, halflings, etc that could be freely included), but that players themselves insisted on greater separation - so over the years GW ceded and made the subfactions increasingly separate. I should also point out that part of the players' desire for the self-contained separation of factions was to deliberately limit the army-building shenanigans that a small core of players in every gaming group always insist on exploiting. You should search out some of Hobgoblins LAF threads on the matter, as there was some good discussion about the matter in them. :) (Edit: beaten to the punch by the man himself!)

So, whilst I don't disagree with you, I find it interesting how GW more or less did the exact opposite of what the intention was right from the very start of AoS's launch.

I also sympathise with the tedium of painting (or removing mouldlines from) the same thing again and again - I'm batch-painting 20 Khorne warriors, and it's been a struggle!  o_o  Ah well, they'll look good when they're done :P


Quote from: stone-cold-lead on March 16, 2017, 12:22:32 PM
I think the point of the game is to sell scenery. That's what many people will be buying it for and just like the Horus Heresy boardgames people will buy multiple sets. Maybe to a lesser extent it'll also act as a replacement for Kill Team which might die out with the new edition of 40K.

Hmm, I get the impression that the scenery has always sold well enough - usually with some in-game rules to help it along.

I wonder if this is actually preparation to "pay off" the mould in advance of an actual re-release of Necromunda boxed game release in the future. I say this as:

> The minimum amount of terrain required for Necromunda is still quite a lot.

> I imagine GW will want to do the terrain in plastic and not cardboard

> Necromunda does actually need the terrain to function as a game, and I just don't think it would work at all as a board game.

> The minimum amount of terrain included in a starter box would still make the set prohibitively expensive (even with terrain add-on sets released separately). Looking at Cities of Death for example.

On the other hand, if the moulds for half the scenery in the starter are already paid off, then the set could be relatively heavily discounted, in which case it would easily sell well enough to make GW a lot of money over it's release life.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 16, 2017, 01:45:14 PM
Well, pictures and details are leaking for Shadow World and I desperately hope they're as good as they look.

I've been secretly hoping GW would prove me wrong, and so far the pics show some good things:

1) A thick rulebook (like 2nd ed. codex thick)
2) A pad for keeping track of your band (nice and old school)
3) A (gasp!) Movement stat back on the profile!

So, small things, but could hint at a genuine effort behind the game as opposed to a cheapo starter...(fingers crossed).  That could actually get me interested in the game itself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 16, 2017, 02:02:17 PM
Surely it shows the opposite? Rather than write a whole new system, or update to suit modern 40k, they can copy and paste much of the Necromunda rulebook and retrofit some new weapons and special rules for things that weren't around then. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, mind, but considering Betrayal at Calth, Silver Tower, Gorechosen and to a lesser extent Deathwatch Overkill all showed some interesting mechanics, there's very little genuine effort going on here, beyond making a good boxed product.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 16, 2017, 03:25:45 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 16, 2017, 01:32:19 PM
...And yet, in the stories, battle reports, photographs, displays, etc, it's normally huge armies of mono-subfaction vs mono-subfaction.

I would also gently point out that GW always encouraged players to use alliances (and even back in the days of "Hero Hammer" WHFB 4/5E, the Empire army book had dwarves, halflings, etc that could be freely included), but that players themselves insisted on greater separation - so over the years GW ceded and made the subfactions increasingly separate.

Interesting.

Thus, for a company that doesn't "listen" to it's players, they certainly seem to bend, in the end, to their wishes. The "General's Handbook" for AoS was lauded my many folks and especially competitive players.

I, OTOH, could care less about competition and could never sustain a commitment to put hundreds of minis of the same faction onto a table... unless it's historic gaming... but that is another creature. Even when I was hot on 40k, I just couldn't bring myself to painting up tons of minis for a mass battle and in AoS (because of the General's Handbook) has led from what I understand to be exactly what you describe... mono faction armies.

Which is why I always wanted GW to do 40k in 15mm. For that, I would have bought a lot of minis and been a BIG fan. Even then though, I don't think I would have fielded an army of just Ultramarines, for example.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 16, 2017, 04:47:25 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on March 16, 2017, 02:02:17 PM
Surely it shows the opposite? Rather than write a whole new system, or update to suit modern 40k, they can copy and paste much of the Necromunda rulebook and retrofit some new weapons and special rules for things that weren't around then. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, mind, but considering Betrayal at Calth, Silver Tower, Gorechosen and to a lesser extent Deathwatch Overkill all showed some interesting mechanics, there's very little genuine effort going on here, beyond making a good boxed product.

I'll gladly take anything 2nd ed. inspired over current GW rules abominations, and that's saying something because 2nd ed. aren't great rules.  If my choice is 2nd-ed based material vs. modern 40K or AoS?  I'll take 2nd ed. all day long.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 16, 2017, 05:10:03 PM
I thought 3rd edition 40K was decent. Anything after that seemed to get very 'meta' and ushered in the mathhammer era.

I really wish I had the time to paint all the Mechanicus and Genestealer Cult releases. I think GW knocked them out of the park.

I also picked up the Dark Eldar gangfight game, I haven't built the figures yet but it looks fun.

Games Workshop is actually making games again... good times.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 16, 2017, 05:27:49 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 16, 2017, 03:25:45 PM
Thus, for a company that doesn't "listen" to it's players, they certainly seem to bend, in the end, to their wishes. The "General's Handbook" for AoS was lauded my many folks and especially competitive players.

It's funny that the relationship is (or has long been) quite symbiotic though, and I feel that for a time GW forgot that until their bottom line could no longer be ignored or explained away.

For what it's worth, I am a player how does care about game balance (not so much competitiveness), and I also tend towards preferring mono-subfaction armies.

I have no issue with those who prefer allied/mixed forces though, nor those who prefer to not use points/army restrictions to determine a game size or army composition.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on March 17, 2017, 08:02:54 AM
I'm hoping for the best on this one.  The terrain is pretty but I'm most interested in what they are doing for the game itself.  I like my old school but I would really like to see them work from the old bones and flesh it out with some of the ideas they have collected over the years.  I would have been hesitant to make a statement like that a couple years ago but I have been impressed with what they have been doing more recently.  Is it a change of heart or a realization that it's easier to sell to people who like them?  I don't really care.  They have cleaned up their act a bit in my opinion and that's the one that matters when it comes to loosening my hobby purse strings.  Hoping for a good one :D .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on March 17, 2017, 08:43:17 AM
Bell of lost souls mentioned a GW presenter said Shadow wars mirrors Necromunda so much, you could theoratically fight against the old gangs.
This game peeked my interest. Necromunda wasn't without it's flaws, but great fun.
I do tend more to skirmish games of late, due to time restrictions and a tendency to flutter from project to project.

An excuse to dust of some old 40k models? Yes please.
An excuse to buy some GW models I'd otherwise never buy? Oh dear.

If they do this right, I'm afraid GW might just get their sticky fingers in my wallet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on March 17, 2017, 10:09:59 AM
And your soul.

My eye is spending time on the GW website for more than a minute or two. What's with that?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 17, 2017, 10:10:11 AM
Well I hope they bring out an actual Necromunda game with gang wars but seeing this I highly doubt it. Maybe a Hiver gang expansion?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 17, 2017, 10:28:46 AM
Quote from: von Lucky on March 17, 2017, 10:09:59 AM
And your soul.

My eye is spending time on the GW website for more than a minute or two. What's with that?

You're not the only one! In between all the facebook comments of 'not more Stormcast' and 'redo [insert army of choice]' there are people mentioning that this past year or so has brought them back into GW. Even the letters page of White Dwarf echoes that, although I'm sure the Alex Jones' of the miniatures world would say they're fake letters.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 17, 2017, 10:48:31 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on March 17, 2017, 10:28:46 AM
You're not the only one! In between all the facebook comments of 'not more Stormcast' and 'redo [insert army of choice]' there are people mentioning that this past year or so has brought them back into GW. Even the letters page of White Dwarf echoes that, although I'm sure the Alex Jones' of the miniatures world would say they're fake letters.  ;)

Me too....although I have not actually caved in yet, I probably will.
The possibilities of converting those new Dwarves into my sci-fi plans may prove too much of a temptation.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 17, 2017, 06:41:19 PM
(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/WHUW_shadespire_box_lid_Content-376x500.jpg)

I look forward to all the anti-Stormcast tears that will be shed on Facebook.   lol

Oh, and 'Tactical Arena Combat' surely ain't Mordheim. Someone on Facebook pointed out that the first hint of it not being Mordheim was the mention of it being geared towards competitive play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 17, 2017, 09:31:42 PM
That and there were some rumours about a 2018 game aimed at Mordheim --- so perhaps this isn't the Shadow World companion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 18, 2017, 08:40:32 AM
Hey, at least its a game with a small model count?  ::) I'm curious to see if it has any actual depth. I'm going to guess it wont stand up to comparison to Blood on the Sand by our own Furt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 19, 2017, 06:50:40 PM
Feast your eyes on the golden glow
 :https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Talons-of-the-Emperor-ENG
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on March 19, 2017, 06:56:23 PM
Fixed your link, 3 fingers.....

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Talons-of-the-Emperor-ENG (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Talons-of-the-Emperor-ENG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 19, 2017, 09:09:42 PM
Death players weep once more...

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/BladesOfKhorneBattletomeContent.jpg)

 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on March 19, 2017, 09:11:56 PM
More Khorne????
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 19, 2017, 09:26:03 PM
Khorne makes me weep...their model range is one of the most awful things GW currently produces.   lol  Everyone else seems to have benefited from some thought/restraint/artistic value...not Khorne.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 19, 2017, 09:34:18 PM
Quote from: Charlie_ on March 19, 2017, 09:11:56 PM
More Khorne????


Just an updated battletome, much like the Stormcast one. No new models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on March 19, 2017, 11:09:05 PM
I am hoping they diversify and add "common" warriors of Nurgle as the had for the other two powers prior to expanding the domain of the Blood God.  I need fodder for my AoS28 project so I can get that up and running.  A book is just a book; Hoping on models.  Still more interested in the 40k skirmish game atm though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 20, 2017, 06:32:32 AM
Quote from: Andym on March 19, 2017, 06:56:23 PM
Fixed your link, 3 fingers.....

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Talons-of-the-Emperor-ENG (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Talons-of-the-Emperor-ENG)
Cheers stubby fingers don't mix with iPhones lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 20, 2017, 09:19:20 AM
Quote from: Charlie_ on March 19, 2017, 09:11:56 PM
More Khorne????

To be fair, it can't be a surprise that the Chaos god of war and bloodshed is very well-represented in a wargame, can it? ;)


Quote from: stone-cold-lead on March 19, 2017, 09:34:18 PM
Just an updated battletome, much like the Stormcast one. No new models.

I hope that as they release more stuff, the various subfaction-specific tomes get "folded back" with any errata and updates into one consolidated book. It's very discouraging for any new player to need to buy lots of books and then download an errata/update for each book as well.

Of course, that doesn't help the "early adopters", but they'd still have a buy a new book anyway I guess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 20, 2017, 11:13:17 AM
Yeah, these updated battletomes are a good move. All the points and stuff from the General's Handbook are in there, updated warscrolls and new ones added. If it's anything like the Stormcast one it'll be a similar size to the old Khorne battletome but have more usable stuff in it and be a damned bit cheaper too. It makes it a lot easier for new players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on March 23, 2017, 08:01:16 AM
Looks like they did a sneak peek for the Death Guard and Cultists of Nurgle at Adepticon.  Saw a teaser video; Not much to it but I'm sure some better images will be on the way shortly.  Very much a 90s death guard vibe to the sculpts.  Look pretty decent but the shot of the cultist looked very cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 23, 2017, 09:25:59 AM
Kind of a Gorechosen type of thing by the looks of it.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/shadespire-unveiled/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/03/23/shadespire-unveiled/)

People will be pissy because Stormcast. There is a female liberator though so that'll either placate some people or anger others I'm sure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 23, 2017, 09:50:48 AM
I like the Chaos models, and I am pleased to see a lady Liberator that's more than just a headswap.

Of course, there are those that will undoubtedly complain that the model got made to look more feminine, I'm sure.  ::)

Anyway, I hope to see the bits parcelled out on Ebay soon - the Chaos chaps are calling to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on March 23, 2017, 10:03:13 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on March 23, 2017, 09:25:59 AM
People will be pissy because Stormcast. There is a female liberator though so that'll either placate some people or anger others I'm sure.

Female liberator conversion to Sister of Battle in power armour? I say yes.

Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 23, 2017, 09:50:48 AM
I like the Chaos models, and I am pleased to see a lady Liberator that's more than just a headswap.

Of course, there are those that will undoubtedly complain that the model got made to look more feminine, I'm sure.  ::)

I really don't understand that logic. "You should be able to tell the gender of miniatures whilst they also have realistic proportions and nothing to indicate their gender." It stinks of people who've only ever seen miniatures in individual hugely blown up photos.

Even with the Sisters of Battle breastplate, you can't even tell they're female when they're on the tabletop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 23, 2017, 10:09:27 AM
Yeah, not wanting to turn this into a boob-plate/battle-heels debate, but I was more referring to the fact that people are different sizes/proportions (regardless of armour bulk), and that I prefer seeing that variation better represented in units. For one thing it provides more interest/variety when painting them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 24, 2017, 11:37:51 AM
A female Stormcast:

(http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/spirehero-1.jpg)

Well executed IMO.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 24, 2017, 12:53:26 PM
I have nothing kind to say...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/Scribe_Enzo/stormcast4_zpsvjsypszh.jpg)

Edited my edit a bit as I'd lowered the chest armour a bit too much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 24, 2017, 01:35:29 PM
Looks like a warrior to me.

I'd buy them.

EDIT: In fact what I would like is a box with say 5 female warriors and all the kit to bash them into whatever unit I want... Liberators, Prosecutors and Retributors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 24, 2017, 01:50:21 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on March 24, 2017, 12:53:26 PM
I have nothing kind to say...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/Scribe_Enzo/stormcast2_zpszjezn17t.jpg)

Ditto.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 24, 2017, 01:54:47 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 24, 2017, 01:35:29 PM
Looks like a warrior to me.

That's not my dispute. I'm questioning the solid metal midriff armour with no articulation and the very high breasts. I think some of the second issue is due to the photo angle, and I've lowered the chest armour too much*, but the recent Sisters of Silence suffer from similar issues. The armour design with the super low belt also makes for a very awkward, oddly proportioned figure.

* Now changed, see above.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on March 24, 2017, 02:07:16 PM
Awful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 24, 2017, 02:29:26 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on March 24, 2017, 01:54:47 PM
I'm questioning the solid metal midriff armour with no articulation and the very high breasts.

That comes down to personal tastes.

The miniature seems fine to me. Strong legs, strong arms, nicely sculpted helmet. Cool.

To be quite honest it is miles ahead of the 30K Sisters who must be stick people to fit into their armor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 24, 2017, 02:46:36 PM
If I look back on all my masses of old 80's and 90's models they're all utter shite if true proportions and scale are applied to them (cue the that was then this is now argument). I really don't care if things are slightly off and not exactly how someone else would have made it. We can be quick to criticise some manufacturers whilst giving others a complete pass because we're fickle.

I thought the female SC might have been a bit more of a thing, a little more stand out, but as it is it's a pretty basic rank and filer. I really like the bareheaded chap in the same set. At first glance I thought that model was the female one because it looked the more interesting of the three. No dog in that fight though, I just like SC.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 24, 2017, 03:01:16 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 24, 2017, 02:29:26 PM
That comes down to personal tastes.

Well... not really. I don't think personal taste comes into whether or not she could move.

@stone-cold-lead: My criticism has nothing to do with 'true proportions' or scale, beyond breast height. If you're going to do boob armour, get it in the right place!

I do like Stormcast, but that they've chosen to give her low-rise armour instead of a feminised version of the male armour (whose belts sit much higher on the waist) means that the armour is totally immobile (cue 'terminators never worked' argument).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on March 24, 2017, 03:26:35 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 24, 2017, 11:37:51 AM
A female Stormcast:

<snip>

Well executed IMO.

They're going for the much coveted "heavily-muscled-women fetish" market.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 24, 2017, 03:28:59 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on March 24, 2017, 03:01:16 PM
I do like Stormcast, but that they've chosen to give her low-rise armour instead of a feminised version of the male armour (whose belts sit much higher on the waist) means that the armour is totally immobile (cue 'terminators never worked' argument).

Actually, if you have put together any of these, you find that in the male SC the upper torso fits so tightly to the lower torso that it is impossible to give it any twist in pose.

The female, OTOH, appears to have more space between the upper and lower torso, thus it would be quite easy to give it an ever so slightly different pose than just strictly erect.

If they were produced on a sprue in pieces, you could also cut down the amount of lower torso shown and thus, essentially, give the miniature the same look that you did in your "shopped" image.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 24, 2017, 03:29:19 PM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on March 24, 2017, 03:26:35 PM
They're going for the much coveted "heavily-muscled-women fetish" market.

 ;D

BTW... looking at the miniature, the only thing they really need to produce to change a male SC to a female SC would be a mod kit with just the upper torsos and helmets.

Bet those would fly off the shelves...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 24, 2017, 03:45:12 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 24, 2017, 03:28:59 PM
Actually, if you have put together any of these, you find that in the male SC the upper torso fits so tightly to the lower torso that it is impossible to give it any twist in pose.

The female, OTOH, appears to have more space between the upper and lower torso, thus it would be quite easy to give it an ever so slightly different pose than just strictly erect.

If they were produced on a sprue in pieces, you could also cut down the amount of lower torso shown and thus, essentially, give the miniature the same look that you did in your "shopped" image.

I wouldn't want to confuse putting together the plastic models with imagining how the armour might actually function. I'm not saying male SC armour is perfect or entirely workable, just that the female version is massively more compromised - not in the upper torso, but in the pelvis area.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on March 25, 2017, 06:37:20 AM
Quote from: Scurv on March 25, 2017, 12:36:35 AM
on other news the next total war warhammer game will be set in lustria with lizard men a given and possibly skaven

Perfect.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 25, 2017, 07:43:42 AM
Quote from: Scurv on March 25, 2017, 12:36:35 AM
on other news the next total war warhammer game will be set in lustria with lizard men a given and possibly skaven
Is that a new game or an big add-on? I'm loving total war at the moment.

I like the female stormcast. I may try to get one and do a headswap for some sort of half ogre paladin type.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on March 25, 2017, 09:30:54 AM
Quote from: beefcake on March 25, 2017, 07:43:42 AM
Is that a new game or an big add-on? I'm loving total war at the moment.

I like the female stormcast. I may try to get one and do a headswap for some sort of half ogre paladin type.

"Standalone expansion", I imagine. So you can buy it on it's own and it works on it's own but there'll be some level of integration (like people will be able to play multiplayer between all the factions etc).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 25, 2017, 01:13:55 PM
Sounds like past Total War games where it'll have its own small story line/etc. but will be compatible with the normal game for multiplayer, skirmish games, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 26, 2017, 08:10:44 AM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Tweezers-2017

Really???
 :o :o :o

Is this some kind of joke or do people actually pay this sort of money?

The mind boggles.......
 o_o o_o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 26, 2017, 08:33:35 AM
Quote from: Mason on March 26, 2017, 08:10:44 AM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Tweezers-2017

Really???
 :o :o :o

Is this some kind of joke or do people actually pay this sort of money?

The mind boggles.......
 o_o o_o
Did you see the file set below,£13 for 2 files,I bought a set of 5 draper ones in a tool roll cheaper than that .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 26, 2017, 09:34:13 AM
Quote from: Mason on March 26, 2017, 08:10:44 AM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Tweezers-2017

Really???
 :o :o :o

Is this some kind of joke or do people actually pay this sort of money?

The mind boggles.......
 o_o o_o



It's always been the same. Taking advantage of the myopic nature of people invested in the 'GW hobby' it's like the prices they used to charge (and probably still do) for a small pot of sand.

It also lets people like us feel all smug with our cheaper and superior tools and brushes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on March 26, 2017, 12:03:36 PM
TBF I found their line scrapper tool to be quite good, but their other stuff is quite overpriced.  Their brushes are garbage and I'd rather invest in a W&N that lasts a year or longer...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on March 26, 2017, 01:05:09 PM
You mean the mouldline remover? Plastic only or does it work on metal too?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 26, 2017, 04:34:57 PM
That's a tough mindset to break.  GW is fortunate in that they probably have the largest amount of gamers who solely play GW games.  While many other people are perhaps well rounded gamers and may play a number of different time periods and genres...I'm almost positive GW has a huge amount of customers who "only" play 40K.  I had a 40K gamer (from an adjacent tournament) ask me what the "fluff" was behind my Old West game I was running at a convention... lol  So, luckily for them a lot of people think that $20 for a can of spray primer is acceptable, or tools for $15-20-25 is normal, etc.

Good on them for raking in money.  I always tell people the first rule of buying into GW games...is to avoid as many GW products as you can, particularly in the hobby range. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on March 26, 2017, 05:11:25 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 26, 2017, 04:34:57 PM
I'm almost positive GW has a huge amount of customers who "only" play 40K. . 

Yep and sadly we have aload of those players at my local gaming Club, now and again I might one to try another game if everything is provided but still they go back and drink the GW Coolaid.

Oh well each to there own I guess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 26, 2017, 05:34:21 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 26, 2017, 04:34:57 PM
That's a tough mindset to break.  GW is fortunate in that they probably have the largest amount of gamers who solely play GW games.  While many other people are perhaps well rounded gamers and may play a number of different time periods and genres...I'm almost positive GW has a huge amount of customers who "only" play 40K.  I had a 40K gamer (from an adjacent tournament) ask me what the "fluff" was behind my Old West game I was running at a convention... lol  So, luckily for them a lot of people think that $20 for a can of spray primer is acceptable, or tools for $15-20-25 is normal, etc.

Good on them for raking in money.  I always tell people the first rule of buying into GW games...is to avoid as many GW products as you can, particularly in the hobby range. 

Once upon a time I was like this. It never occured to me to look beyond GW for tools, paints etc.

Brainwashed I suppose!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 26, 2017, 06:01:05 PM
The clippers, mouldline remover and the retractable knife are all worth the money. Everything else I generally recommend a substitute or amazon when people ask for them at the till.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 26, 2017, 09:32:18 PM
I really like the GW pin vice drill. I have a much cheaper one as well, but it lacks the lovely big soft pad at the end and fat grip. It's a much more comfortable tool to use and I feel more in control of it.

I don't have an issue with GW selling bits and pieces of decent quality hobby accoutrements. A few of them are excellent. But they're selling convenience and plenty of places do that too. I understand why they do it (because people buy it), but I don't understand when someone is shown a better quality, cheaper alternative ... and still won't take it because it's not sold by GW. That's a head scratcher.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on March 26, 2017, 10:34:42 PM
It's the same as people who ONLY buy Apple products.

One of the guys in work does it and when I asked he just said, "I know I should buy from someone else, but I guess I'm invested in it now."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 27, 2017, 03:19:40 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on March 26, 2017, 12:03:36 PM
Their brushes are garbage...

I love their left handed brush.

Only folks who make them.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on March 28, 2017, 01:28:38 PM
Quote from: Shub-Nullgurath on March 26, 2017, 10:34:42 PM
It's the same as people who ONLY buy Apple products.

One of the guys in work does it and when I asked he just said, "I know I should buy from someone else, but I guess I'm invested in it now."

I'm an Apple guy. Wouldn't buy anything else. Why would I?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on March 28, 2017, 01:31:24 PM
I have a pointed pair of Tweezerman brand tweezers that I used to use for micro decals that cost a lot more than that. Worth every penny. If the stuff is quality it's worth paying for, simple as that. That being said some of GWs stuff was good, most is overpriced crap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on March 28, 2017, 01:45:47 PM
Quote from: grant on March 28, 2017, 01:28:38 PM
I'm an Apple guy. Wouldn't buy anything else. Why would I?

Well, Apple products are designed to fail within the release window of the next product. If they're not failing then soon enough an OS update gets released which makes the product run a LOT slower to force customers to "upgrade" to the new product.

In terms of power versus cost, Apple computers are a lot less powerful than laptops and especially desktop PCs. I could build a desktop PC equivalent to an Apple laptop for a 1/4 of the cost and get a pre-built high-end laptop for 1/2 the price. The same can be said of phones, as you can get an Apple-equivalent phone for a fraction of the cost.

So, basically, every 2-3 years you have to replace an Apple product with another Apple product that costs much more than any of their competitors for no quality increase.

If that's not enough, see Richard Stallman's list (https://stallman.org/apple.html).

(I have to say, those reasons I gave remind me quite a lot of modern Games Workshop...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on March 28, 2017, 02:16:40 PM


Everyone has the right to be wrong.  o_o

Even Games Workshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 28, 2017, 05:37:08 PM
New Nurgle miniatures look OK, especially that cultist (?) - could be promising!

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/breaking-new-death-guard-mini-pics.html (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/breaking-new-death-guard-mini-pics.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 28, 2017, 06:42:59 PM
I like the fella with the goggles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 28, 2017, 06:53:24 PM
Yeah, that was the cultist guy I was talking about! My mind is now racing (probably optimistically) about the cool possibilities of a multi-part Nurgle cultist kit. If the others are as promising as Mr Goggles, that would be very pleasing indeed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on March 28, 2017, 08:18:22 PM
 Goggles guy does look great.As does the one behind him on the left.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 28, 2017, 10:43:35 PM
I'll be doing a 2nd ed. Death Guard inspired force (ordered up a Prospero box for the MkIII's).  Hoping to kit-bash between the "over the top" GW kits and the less-so kits.  I see in one of the fuzzier shots a throwback to the old dragon-mouthed auto-cannon on a terminator which is pretty cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on March 29, 2017, 07:39:05 AM
@elbows

Pretty much the same thought I had on the kits.  The mark III would look awesome combined with some of those components.  The only add I really need to go scrounging for will be some pickelhaubenesque helmet spikes :) .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2017, 10:11:46 AM
Quote from: horridperson on March 29, 2017, 07:39:05 AM
@elbows

Pretty much the same thought I had on the kits.  The mark III would look awesome combined with some of those components.  The only add I really need to go scrounging for will be some pickelhaubenesque helmet spikes :) .

Ditto.

Looks like model railway shops will be out of railing/fencing spiked tops across the country!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 29, 2017, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2017, 10:11:46 AM
Ditto.

Looks like model railway shops will be out of railing/fencing spiked tops across the country!  ;D
Arrowheads?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 29, 2017, 01:21:24 PM
I would imagine a third party supplier makes heads like that (or gas mask WW1 style heads, etc.).  Surely, someone?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 29, 2017, 01:43:04 PM
Some rulebook teasers are out for Shadow War Armageddon.  Unfortunately not great news.  While it's far more Necromunda than the dumpster fire that is current 40K, it's been smacked around with the "dumb down" stick as they did with other reborn titles like WHQ etc.  If you want full Necromunda depth you'll have to use the old Necromunda tables, etc.

-No wound depth, just dead or not
-One model per warband gets an upgrade each game(?)
-No real territories, etc.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 29, 2017, 01:50:56 PM
There's also the news that the terrain from "Shadow War: Armageddon" will be available separately (can't remember the prices but they are in this month White Dwarf - 3 new boxes). The game itself will cost £90 (or €120).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 29, 2017, 01:57:14 PM
Yep, there are three kits (which are combined in the starter box).  The prices are...proud to put it politely.  The main box (with online discount) will be the way to do this stuff for sure - particularly if you sell off your scouts/orks/rulebook from additional boxes.  That'd be the way to do a decent table.  In the U.S. it's retail at $130, so probably around $105-110.00 after discount.  Not an amazing deal by any stretch, but not terrible.

For reference they've listed some of the individual terrain kits at around $50-60...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 29, 2017, 02:05:44 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 29, 2017, 01:43:04 PM
Some rulebook teasers are out for Shadow War Armageddon.  Unfortunately not great news.  While it's far more Necromunda than the dumpster fire that is current 40K, it's been smacked around with the "dumb down" stick as they did with other reborn titles like WHQ etc.  If you want full Necromunda depth you'll have to use the old Necromunda tables, etc.

-No wound depth, just dead or not
-One model per warband gets an upgrade each game(?)
-No real territories, etc.

Well, it's not actually Necromunda...

And to be honest, for many people, after a few games' worth of skills and cool equipment (or injuries and rubbish trade/income rolls), there is a lot of disparity between the participating gangs in even a modest campaign. It's at that point that many gaming groups find that most of the campaign's starting players suddenly don't have much interest any more.

This "streamlined-Necromunda-40k" looks like what it is: a small covert ops skirmish game to use existing 40k kits, and which provides a more entertaining and fulfilling afternoon than the previous Kill Team effort.

Rules-wise, I suspect that it uses an AoS-style ruleset but presented in a more 40k manner, and that it'll be closely related to the upcoming 8th edition.

Plus, it shifts old models, and it lets GW test how widespread the real appetite of players is for skirmish 40k games. It also "softens" the upcoming changes to the 8E ruleset if people have already been playing with them for a few months.

Fair enough I say.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on March 29, 2017, 02:09:17 PM
Also I don't see how the reborn WHQ is dumbed down. It's a totally different ruleset, with interesting mechanics, and frankly is way easier and MORE FUN to play than the old game. IMO...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 29, 2017, 02:50:14 PM
To be fair the new WHQ isn't really Warhammer Quest, it's just using the title to sell the game.  I also have no doubt SWA will sell plenty well and be well received.  Personally the reason I like the older games was expressly for the chunk (and all the failings that came with it).  I don't need "way easier" to play.  I occasionally want something I can sink my teeth into, and buy a product which has enough depth (even if it needs tweaking) to keep me interested for a long time.  There is a reason games like Mordheim, Necromunda, and Warhammer Quest have healthy fan bases 20+ years after their release.

Give me the chunk, and I'll polish it myself.  I know plenty of people don't want/like that and fair enough.  Opinions will always differ.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on March 30, 2017, 12:17:03 AM
I'm sure there will be expensions for SWA, just as they did voor WHQ-ST. Never played the old WHQ but I like this one ( played 3 solo scenario's ), quick and easy play, and with a few tweaks you can make the heroes more "independent", as if played by 4 different players.
To be fair, it's a beer and pretzel game ( with quite a chaotic and unclear written rulebook, I like an index for starters and not having to flip trough several pages in order to solve a situation ) and I wouldn't play it over and over again with my gaming buddies - because it's not that big a challenge - but I'm pretty happy with it.
Will probably get the SWA and expect it to be a new game and not compare it with Necromunda, got that already, played and enjoyed that but as GW simplified their rules and games in order to sell to a younger public, that's fine with me.
In short, they sell miniatures and stick some rules to them so people can roll a few dice and buy storybooks if they want too  ;).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 30, 2017, 10:15:46 AM
If these rules are bona fide

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/leaked-rules-for-shadow-wars-armegeddon.html?m=1

It just looks like 2ed 40k minus the psychic phase and with he end bit tacked on
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 30, 2017, 11:01:17 AM
Well, simplified rules are not just aimed at "younger audiences"; some people just don't want to wade through a telephone-directory-sized rulebook simply to find out if they can move diagonally on the board, or fire a bow at a model 8 squares away.

In fact, quite a lot of the most popular boardgames that are considered to have a good level of replay value still have very simple rules.

Whilst with miniature games I understand that the demographic is a little different (as you have to assemble the miniatures at the very minimum), I do still get the impression that rules brevity is valued my many to enable quicker pick-up games. The real key is to have enough depth of gameplay and variety of force configuration to make the game more engaging and enduring than GW's other 40k skirmish effort "Kill Team".

With reference to rules "chunk" as Elbows calls it, the issue for me is that it adds a lot volume and complication for achieving something which is often not that important or detailed, and which is usually the source of imbalance and frustration for many players after only a few linked games - especially as they are typically elements over which there is no control over the outcome at all. (It's also not for nothing that Mordheim changed quite a lot of aspects of the Necromunda template in this regard!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on March 31, 2017, 03:36:32 PM
I don't dislike simple rules, as long as the game play is deep.
I think the rules for x-wing are rather simple. Their easy to explain and the gameplay can be very deep and divers.
Same goes for multiple games.

I'll just wait and see.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on March 31, 2017, 05:35:52 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 29, 2017, 01:21:24 PM
I would imagine a third party supplier makes heads like that (or gas mask WW1 style heads, etc.).  Surely, someone?

Anvil Industry does SF Stahlhelms with gasmasks in its Regiments range.  Pickelhaubes are due soon.

Quality?  It's not that they are as good as Forgeworld, rather I'm pleasantly surprised when Forgeworld lives up to what I've come to expect from Anvil  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 31, 2017, 06:46:40 PM
I love when people think Forgeworld is "high quality" stuff :P

Yeah at the moment I'm looking at the Anvil Stahlhelms and some of the Victoria Miniatures bare heads with gas masks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 31, 2017, 06:54:52 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 31, 2017, 06:46:40 PM
I love when people think Forgeworld is "high quality" stuff :P

My experience with 3rd party resin casters is that they are almost always better than FW. Ive used quite a few- Anvil, Mad Robot, MaxMini, Puppet's War (they started off rough but have gotten much better), Victoria, just to name a few.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on March 31, 2017, 09:27:58 PM
I used to like playing Necromunda but found the post-battle sequence a tedious slog. Mordheim was much better in that regard. What puzzles me is that GW would want the smaller games to be easy to play while the big core games are overloaded with special rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 31, 2017, 10:44:38 PM
So... the new Shadow War game is marked as 'while stocks last' on the NZ site. o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 31, 2017, 10:55:24 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on March 31, 2017, 10:44:38 PM
So... the new Shadow War game is marked as 'while stocks last' on the NZ site. o_o

And only 1 for person  o_o But the rules for the different factions are already here. 60 pages of them:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/ShadowWar/SWA_Killteams_ENG.pdf
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 31, 2017, 10:59:18 PM
Yeah and for free!
Well except for buying the minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 01, 2017, 08:45:51 AM
at 60 pages with full layout and (recycled) images they could have sold that as a small book, or even a pdf. Kudos to them for publishing it like this!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 01, 2017, 10:32:59 AM
Available while stock last and sold out on the english site as well.
Wut?
Well, I guess GW isn't getting any of my money anyway.

The PDF looked okay. Would've been a reason to finally put a brush to my lovely harlequin models.

Well, plenty of projects laying around anyway.

Or is this an april 1st joke?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on April 01, 2017, 10:33:41 AM
It sold out in a few minutes flat. Was going to buy it, had some Harlequins on order too to use with it.

I've cancelled that order now and asked for a refund. Well done GW. A masterpiece of new product release strategy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 01, 2017, 10:37:49 AM
Wow, "whilst stocks last!", and it's already sold out on pre-order.  :?

Oh well, I'm sure somebody else will want my money, eh?  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 01, 2017, 10:51:45 AM
I think it's just the pre-order stock that has sold out.  it will be back soon ;)

Kind of mystified why they're not selling the rulebook as a standalone, or in digital format.  Or indeed incorporating the bonus PDF into the actual rulebook, since they were obviously developed at the same time.  GW has sorely needed an intro game for 40k for a long time, and this looks like it.  Buy the book, buy a box of plastics, off you go!

My guess is that it's some kind of stopgap before Age of The Emprah, sorry 40k 8th Ed, comes out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 01, 2017, 10:52:55 AM
Yeah, puff of the book would be great.

I wonder how limited this will be though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on April 01, 2017, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on April 01, 2017, 10:51:45 AM
I think it's just the pre-order stock that has sold out.  it will be back soon ;)
When they do that, like with the Sisters of Battle canoness, they put an "email me" button so you can get an email next time it comes back in stock and gets sold out in 5 minutes.

So this looks like it won't come back in stock, unless they've suddenly changed how they operate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on April 01, 2017, 11:43:39 AM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on April 01, 2017, 11:06:41 AM
When they do that, like with the Sisters of Battle canoness, they put an "email me" button so you can get an email next time it comes back in stock and gets sold out in 5 minutes.

So this looks like it won't come back in stock, unless they've suddenly changed how they operate.

Nope.

The Canoness is available for order right now... and for quite some time.

So if you don't want to fight over the first product runs, you just wait and it will eventually be generally available for sale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on April 01, 2017, 12:00:36 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on April 01, 2017, 11:43:39 AM
Nope.

The Canoness is available for order right now... and for quite some time.

So if you don't want to fight over the first product runs, you just wait and it will eventually be generally available for sale.
I know it is. That's exactly my point. When that went out of stock, the status didn't change to "no longer available" it changed to an "email me when it comes back into stock" status.

This game has gone to "no longer available", which is what GW usually do when they are not going to get new stocks of something. Like, say, the winter-themed Bloodbowl boards.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 01, 2017, 12:15:13 PM
At least it is (was) £10 cheaper than what was listed in White Dwarf. Hopefully the individual scenery sets will also be cheaper. They were listed as £30/£30/£45 so a lot more cash for one extra scenery sprue and no figures or game. To be honest, I'd rather buy the scenery individually over a period of time, than splash out on the big box, so if they are cheaper that would be good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 01, 2017, 12:17:19 PM
New citadel paint product:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ9w9J7gfJI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ9w9J7gfJI)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 01, 2017, 12:20:16 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on April 01, 2017, 12:17:19 PM
New citadel paint product:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ9w9J7gfJI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ9w9J7gfJI)

One and a half thin coats.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on April 01, 2017, 12:23:52 PM
I couldn't give a hoot about the scenery. I wanted the damn game.

It's very vexing when GW pull this kind of nonsense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 01, 2017, 12:31:45 PM
Did this even show up on the USA site?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 01, 2017, 12:35:24 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on April 01, 2017, 12:31:45 PM
Did this even show up on the USA site?

Not til 10am whatever timezone they run the US webstore on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 01, 2017, 12:42:03 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on April 01, 2017, 12:17:19 PM
New citadel paint product:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ9w9J7gfJI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ9w9J7gfJI)

That did give me a chuckle but I do wonder just how many idiots have walked into a store and asked for it......
 ::)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 01, 2017, 12:59:58 PM
If it truly is Limited Edition and sold out for good then it's a weird step backwards for them. I thought they'd stopped that nonsense. I don't see why you'd do it when you've tooled up the plastic moulds etc!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 01, 2017, 01:03:25 PM
The terrain isn't limited. Just the big box.

The poor GW Community team are fielding lots of angst ridden message on Facebook. Looks like the plan was for it to be limited and not reprinted. Though who knows, it might still be reprinted.

Quote from: Warhammer 40,000 Facebook
Hey guys - we're sorry you missed out on this one - it took us by surprise how popular it was too! The good news is that the terrain will be available separately in the future, and we are looking at making the rules available as a digital download, so you will still be able to play this awesome game. We will have more news on this page as and when we get it.

You have to wonder why they promoted a 'while stocks last' product at an annual trade show.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 01, 2017, 01:15:12 PM
I had originally assumed it was a way to propel the start of the new terrain line - but that does make me question if the rulebook would be separate later on.  I've no real interest in it at the moment, but I think this "should" have been a genuine GW product - and I'm sure they'll realize the same.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 01, 2017, 01:15:50 PM
And I missed the pre-order  :( They confirmed the set will be available on stores on Saturday, the 8th, but not online anymore. They promised that the full rules will be available as an Ebook in a couple of weeks. After all the hype they do this?  :'( :'( It only feeds the Ebay scalpers who will sell the set at exorbitant prices!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on April 01, 2017, 01:24:37 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on April 01, 2017, 01:03:25 PM
The terrain isn't limited. Just the big box.

The poor GW Community team are fielding lots of angst ridden message on Facebook. Looks like the plan was for it to be limited and not reprinted. Though who knows, it might still be reprinted.

You have to wonder why they promoted a 'while stocks last' product at an annual trade show.

Well, they are GW. If they have the opportunity to screw something up, they'll do it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 01, 2017, 01:34:15 PM
Quote from: grant on April 01, 2017, 01:24:37 PM
Well, they are GW. If they have the opportunity to screw something up, they'll do it.

Considering how many cool things they have released for 40K over the last couple years, we were due for a genuine head-scratcher like this. They'll probably pull a 'We found a few hundred boxes in the warehouse' maneuver like they did with 3rd edition Space Hulk.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 01, 2017, 02:02:37 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on April 01, 2017, 01:34:15 PM
Considering how many cool things they have released for 40K over the last couple years, we were due for a genuine head-scratcher like this. They'll probably pull a 'We found a few hundred boxes in the warehouse' maneuver like they did with 3rd edition Space Hulk.

I think they won't do something like that again. They keep repeating that the rules will be available as an Ebook and that there aren't plans to do a new edition. And it seems that independent sellers (like Wayland for instance) were only allowed 10 copies. The hate on their FB page keeps rising...

I grabbed a copy in Spanish - it's not my first choice but it was the only one available for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Johnno on April 01, 2017, 03:06:06 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on April 01, 2017, 12:17:19 PM
New citadel paint product:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ9w9J7gfJI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ9w9J7gfJI)

April Fools?!?
 o_o



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on April 01, 2017, 03:31:08 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on April 01, 2017, 02:02:37 PM
I think they won't do something like that again. They keep repeating that the rules will be available as an Ebook and that there aren't plans to do a new edition.  The hate on their FB page keeps rising...
 

Well justified. An ebook isn't the same, and sure the models were crap old ones, but I too thought they were done with the limited edition nonsense. Do they ever learn? NO.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on April 01, 2017, 03:34:08 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on April 01, 2017, 01:03:25 PM
The terrain isn't limited. Just the big box.

The poor GW Community team are fielding lots of angst ridden message on Facebook. Looks like the plan was for it to be limited and not reprinted. Though who knows, it might still be reprinted.

You have to wonder why they promoted a 'while stocks last' product at an annual trade show.

Well, they wanted to create a hype about this game and they seem to have succeeded, even beyond expectations  :D.
They pulled some legs with the "limited" release of that Canonness, they did the same with their Hobbit Laketown boxed set of 3, and now this... Won't make them many friends, these actions...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on April 01, 2017, 03:36:06 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on April 01, 2017, 03:34:08 PM
Won't make them many friends, these actions...

Their group of friends dwindles daily, it seems. They just are so out of touch with reality. Say, is that an iceberg dead ahead? Well, full speed ahead then! We're unsinkable!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 01, 2017, 03:38:05 PM
For all the forward strides GW has made in the past year or two, this kind of stuff won't be winning them any friends.  I had little to no interest in SWA, particularly after seeing the lists etc., but even I would have picked up a rulebook on eBay for a couple o' bucks had this been a normal selling item.

I do think anyone who got a copy should hop on eBay and sell that for $250 to an idiot.  :`
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on April 01, 2017, 03:43:43 PM
Quote from: Elbows on April 01, 2017, 03:38:05 PM

I do think anyone who got a copy should hop on eBay and sell that for $250 to an idiot.  :`

Fully agree. Suck in the idiots while you can.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 01, 2017, 04:03:07 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on April 01, 2017, 03:34:08 PM
Well, they wanted to create a hype about this game and they seem to have succeeded, even beyond expectations  :D.

True, hype is all good, but I just imagined that because it was being touted to traders, it would be a long term product.

Still, it's given us all something to feel superior about which is always welcome! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 01, 2017, 04:05:07 PM
My brother has a friend in Scotland, who works near a GW shop. I decided to nag him a bit and he ended up going to the store a couple of minutes ago - the staff seemed to be a bit overwhelmed with all the clients asking about the next Saturday release of the game and are saying that the stock will be limited and on a basis of "first come, first served".

I don't know if that applies to all the GW stores, but it seems that unless you are friends with someone of the staff of your local GW, you won't have much luck on getting the game on a store if you don't want to wait on a queue for the store to open...

I still can't understand why GW couldn't anticipate something like this after all the publicity they made for the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 01, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
Quote from: grant on April 01, 2017, 03:43:43 PM
Fully agree. Suck in the idiots while you can.  lol

I wish I was exaggerating.  I'd imagine that the hardback rulebook (if you purchased say two copies for the terrain) will probably net you $50-60 USD just selling it on eBay.  Times like this I wish I'd had extra cash floating around and ordered a couple sets.

Heck I wonder if I could sell my extra artillery dice for $24.95 on eBay as special Shadow War: Armageddon dice.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 01, 2017, 04:41:31 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on April 01, 2017, 04:05:07 PM
My brother has a friend in Scotland, who works near a GW shop. I decided to nag him a bit and he ended up going to the store a couple of minutes ago - the staff seemed to be a bit overwhelmed with all the clients asking about the next Saturday release of the game and are saying that the stock will be limited and on a basis of "first come, first served".

Ouch. I wouldn't want to be those staff members having to tell customers (made up of a lot of the more socially ill-equipped sort) that they can't have their toy because it's sold out forever.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 01, 2017, 05:35:38 PM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on April 01, 2017, 11:06:41 AM
So this looks like it won't come back in stock, unless they've suddenly changed how they operate.

Well spotted  :D

Daft of them, mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on April 01, 2017, 06:31:41 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on April 01, 2017, 05:35:38 PM
Well spotted  :D

Daft of them, mind.

Ah, GW - you just keep making all the wrong decisions at the right times. Well done.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on April 01, 2017, 08:01:37 PM
GW seem to have commitment issues. Were they really 'bitten' with Specialist Games? I highly doubt it. Their recent effort to actually produce games has been commendable but they still come across as horribly corporate in terms of behaviour and pricing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 01, 2017, 08:24:52 PM
I just hope they see this as an awesome idea and try to bring out an actual necromunda game, not a proxy
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 01, 2017, 08:33:28 PM
Quote from: Gibby on April 01, 2017, 04:41:31 PM
Ouch. I wouldn't want to be those staff members having to tell customers (made up of a lot of the more socially ill-equipped sort) that they can't have their toy because it's sold out forever.

It's worse than you can possibly imagine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 02, 2017, 12:11:01 AM
And it starts...no comments  >:(

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/Ebay_zpsvrvvkozd.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on April 02, 2017, 12:34:52 AM
Quote from: nic-e on April 01, 2017, 08:33:28 PM
It's worse than you can possibly imagine.
I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit.

(I've worked in customer service.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 02, 2017, 01:34:26 AM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on April 02, 2017, 12:34:52 AM
I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit.

(I've worked in customer service.)

I've worked in NHS admin and reception, a massage parlour, a wetherspoons and as a leafleter, and I can tell you that working in a game store has been the job with the most demanding entitled short sighted and infantile customers.
It also has some of the nicest I might add, But my god are the bad ones bad......


I honestly dread GW release weekends some weeks because of the customer indignation i will be forced to sit through as they blame me for their own failure to pre order an obviously popular limited product or ask me why I can't just make more of a thing i have no part in producing for a company i don't work for.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on April 02, 2017, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on April 02, 2017, 12:11:01 AM
And it starts...no comments  >:(

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/Ebay_zpsvrvvkozd.png)

I had a quick look on Ebay yesterday and noticed that quite a few of the Shadow War sets were listed as pre-order items. I wonder how many of those are being sold by people with actual copies to sell? I bet a few Ebay purchases will be refunded next week.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 05, 2017, 10:48:39 PM
Just saw a review of the terrain for Shadow War and it looks great  :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u3Eq08BGEI


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 06, 2017, 01:38:10 AM
The terrain is definitely the highlight.  Sadly you'd need perhaps three boxes to get a decent table covered, but it's a nice design - cool to see modular stuff.  I like the included bits which would allow you to match other terrain to the aesthetic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on April 06, 2017, 10:18:32 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't like the terrain? The colour scheme might be putting me off as much as anything but it doesn't look very in keeping with GW imperial aesthetic. If it's 40k I want my factories to have gothic arches and millions of skulls tbh, this isn't doing it for me. The castellated gantry bits are weirdest imho, looks almost Orky?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 06, 2017, 11:21:48 AM
The terrain isn't really quite what I'd hoped for (given the original Necromunda terrain aesthetic, anyway), but seems to fit in reasonably well with the other Imperial stuff they've released previously. That is, not just the Cities of Death, but the Promethium Pipes, the Power Plant, etc.

Looks like I won't be buying it regardless of my feelings though, so... <shrug>.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on April 06, 2017, 01:30:15 PM
I think the terrain is very awesome. Not much interested in the game, per se.

My feeling is that it works for just about any SciFi game you want to play with it.

Add in already available terrain such as the Void Shied Generator, Haemotrope Reactor, Promethium Relay Pipes, containers and accessories and you can really pack out a gaming board very easily.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on April 07, 2017, 10:03:42 PM
https://instagram.com/p/BSlcdQWgdJp/
Looks nice painted imho
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on April 07, 2017, 11:39:14 PM
@Andrew May

I agree.  Viewing it as a fantasy sculpt rather than historically accurate depiction of armour it looks very sharp with such a nice paint job.  The form may be stylized but she hasn't been turned into cheesecake reduced to sporting a chainmail bikini.  There are some really bad miniatures out there so I'm surprised this one took as much heat as it has here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 07, 2017, 11:40:57 PM
How long has this been up. Old school BB minis in METAL!

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Boxed-Games?N=3139375953+1894043718&_requestid=8903262

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on April 08, 2017, 12:06:17 AM
What a time to be alive!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 08, 2017, 01:04:54 AM
Quote from: horridperson on April 07, 2017, 11:39:14 PM
@Andrew May

I agree.  Viewing it as a fantasy sculpt rather than historically accurate depiction of armour it looks very sharp with such a nice paint job.  The form may be stylized but she hasn't been turned into cheesecake reduced to sporting a chainmail bikini.  There are some really bad miniatures out there so I'm surprised this one took as much heat as it has here.

For me, the most glaring thing that's wrong with it is the size of the hammer. It just reads wrong - as it does for the original batch of Sigmarines. The size of the head suggests that it's a Larp weapon wrought of ... foam. It upsets the balance of the figure, and I'm sure it violates some principle of sculpture. For it to make any visual sense, the weapon-head has to be virtually weightless.

A conventional, small, sharp warhammer head that finishes where the current one starts would look far better, I think - and would actually make the figure look more heroic/angelic/god-like.

I thought the recent Sigmar cavalry with smaller, pierced axe-heads looked much better than the infantry in this respect. Less, as so often, is more.

Having just watched a documentary on the Towton skeletons, which showed the wounds that the relatively small heads of real warhammers inflicted, I can't fathom why anyone would think that making a warhammer bigger makes it look more menacing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 08, 2017, 09:15:08 AM
Probably because she'll be fighting giant monsters, obscenely muscly warriors enfused with evil magic, and generally existing in a universe where there's a magic metal for every purpose. Not to mention the Stormcasts are 7-8 foot tall superbeings who probably use normal, realistic sized hammers as tooth picks. The whole AoS look is always going to be absurb in terms of proportions - not least the insane weaponry on offer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 08, 2017, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: Gibby on April 08, 2017, 09:15:08 AM
Probably because she'll be fighting giant monsters, obscenely muscly warriors enfused with evil magic, and generally existing in a universe where there's a magic metal for every purpose. Not to mention the Stormcasts are 7-8 foot tall superbeings who probably use normal, realistic sized hammers as tooth picks. The whole AoS look is always going to be absurb in terms of proportions - not least the insane weaponry on offer.

That is because GW is just sooooo Money-Supermarket.....

(https://www.moneysupermarket.com/etc/moneysupermarket-micro-app/en_GB/gadgets/skeletor/img/skeletor-staff.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 08, 2017, 10:48:42 AM
I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think Hobgoblin likes oversized weapons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 08, 2017, 10:55:19 AM
Quote from: Mason on April 08, 2017, 10:01:47 AM
That is because GW is just sooooo Money-Supermarket.....

Now I have a mental image of Duncan in hotpants and stilettos.  You bastard :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on April 08, 2017, 01:51:17 PM
Quote from: Mason on April 08, 2017, 10:01:47 AM
That is because GW is just sooooo Money-Supermarket.....
I think they are more confused.com...

Nice to see some old skool BB minis but from what I have seen they don't even remotely scale with the new ones. And some of it is well priced while some is ludicrous - two bull centaurs are worth the same as an entire Chaos Dwarf team apparently!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Braxandur on April 08, 2017, 04:50:37 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on April 08, 2017, 10:48:42 AM
I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think Hobgoblin likes oversized weapons.

You think so?
It's high fantasy, with magic weapons that are probably weightless, but them being big just increases the odds of hitting something
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on April 08, 2017, 06:25:14 PM
Well, I think it's a good thing of GW to re-release some old Bloodbowl classic teams. Hope they will continue to do so with other classics, since online prices on auction sites sometimes are skyrocketing. Still have a giant wish list  :).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on April 08, 2017, 07:22:45 PM
The other problem with all the teams currently available from GW is that they only stretch to 12-13 players. I have a feeling that GW will be happy that some people will buy two of a team just to get the options, although who wants 4 Orc throwers?! There will be a huge surplus of BB throwers on the market.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on April 08, 2017, 08:16:34 PM
Quote from: Braxandur on April 08, 2017, 04:50:37 PM
You think so?
It's high fantasy, with magic weapons that are probably weightless, but them being big just increases the odds of hitting something

Go big or go home.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on April 09, 2017, 03:05:38 PM
I can't understand the pricing of those Bull Centaurs but the chaos team is very tempting at £32 for 12 players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 09, 2017, 04:22:05 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on April 08, 2017, 10:55:19 AM
Now I have a mental image of Duncan in hotpants and stilettos.  You bastard :D

 lol lol
There are some things that you should really keep to yourself, mate.
 ;D ;)


Quote from: thenamelessdead on April 08, 2017, 01:51:17 PM
I think they are more confused.com...

Yep.
That works.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on April 09, 2017, 06:34:36 PM
http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/shadow-war-armageddon-terrain-kits/

I much prefer them with the different paint schemes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 09, 2017, 06:39:44 PM
There's a nice rusty version in this month's White Dwarf that has me tempted.

Rulebook is getting a printing too:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/09/shadow-war-armageddon-the-rules-available-soon/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/09/shadow-war-armageddon-the-rules-available-soon/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 09, 2017, 07:17:33 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on April 09, 2017, 06:39:44 PM
...

Rulebook is getting a printing too:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/09/shadow-war-armageddon-the-rules-available-soon/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/09/shadow-war-armageddon-the-rules-available-soon/)

And that's a stab in the heart for all the bastards who are selling their rulebooks on Ebay at stupid prices - the new rulebook is going to updated with all the factions available on their site plus 2 new ones. Serves them right.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 09, 2017, 07:55:30 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on April 09, 2017, 07:17:33 PM
And that's a stab in the heart for all the bastards who are selling their rulebooks on Ebay at stupid prices - the new rulebook is going to updated with all the factions available on their site plus 2 new ones. Serves them right.

They really do listen now, don't they?  Will pick this one up - GW has needed a proper introductory starter game for the main 40k armies for about 20 years.  Buy the book and a box of troops, off you go!

I have absolutely no idea why they didn't do this in the first place, mind, but it's a good move. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 09, 2017, 09:01:45 PM
Well, seeing as how that book was the main thing I wanted from the box....

I will probably pick it up...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 09, 2017, 09:14:24 PM
If it is any good I may pick it up too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 09, 2017, 09:18:35 PM
I just bought the scenery from a colleague who only wanted the box for the book.
Now i can have the scenery and the book and i'll still have saved money!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 10, 2017, 08:11:29 AM
Good for you.
I'm not interested in the scenery. It's nice, but You'd need sooooo much of it.

I have plenty of orks, and basicaly only need a boc of scouts to get some options.

Basicly, just the book (especially a better book with more factions.) is perfect for me.

I think my harlequins might hit the painting table soon, and I'll probably bite the bullet and buy a ridiculously prices solitaire...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on April 10, 2017, 03:48:28 PM
Late to the party as usual, but I just saw the post about the shadow war armageddon rulebook.  Once I saw that it was going to have stats for the inquisition I was sold.

Looks like I'm going to buy my new first GW product in 6 years.   
I wonder what it will cost?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 10, 2017, 05:35:17 PM
Sadly, the real question is with a newer/large hardback book, I can see typical GW prices coming into (read: $55-65 for the book).  That'll be a hard pass for me at that point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 13, 2017, 12:20:50 PM
Skeleton party time! Dance, Skellies, dance! Like the look of these guys; who doesn't love a dancing skeleton?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/13/warhammer-underworlds-shadespire-new-faction-revealed/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/13/warhammer-underworlds-shadespire-new-faction-revealed/)

I can see myself getting Shadespire. I like Gorechosen and the idea of a similar game appeals, especially if it gives the opportunity to paint small groups of characterful figures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 13, 2017, 12:35:22 PM
When I read this.....

Quote from: Andrew Rae on April 13, 2017, 12:20:50 PM
Skeleton party time! Dance, Skellies, dance! Like the look of these guys; who doesn't love a dancing skeleton?


....I thought: WTF???

Gotta say that I really like them.
I feel that I shouldn't, but I do.
 8) 8)

And that Magnavent set has made me look at it a few times.

This is getting scary!
 :o :o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: baldlea on April 13, 2017, 12:45:12 PM
Quote from: eilif on April 10, 2017, 03:48:28 PM
Late to the party as usual, but I just saw the post about the shadow war armageddon rulebook.  Once I saw that it was going to have stats for the inquisition I was sold.

Same here. They might finally get me impulse buying again: I don't want to buy dozens of similar figures to play their games. Now I will almost certainly start buying the odd box of figures to build teams from different factions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 13, 2017, 01:10:44 PM
Quote from: baldlea on April 13, 2017, 12:45:12 PM
Same here. They might finally get me impulse buying again: I don't want to buy dozens of similar figures to play their games. Now I will almost certainly start buying the odd box of figures to build teams from different factions.

I have a feeling that may be the case for quite a few people.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 13, 2017, 04:46:44 PM
Quite like those Skellies, and I could do with a few Whights for my Undead... Hmm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 13, 2017, 05:00:15 PM
They've posted a photo now as well as a video in the link above:

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/SS_SoW_Deathrattle1.jpg)

Cracking figure. Nice chunky details, should be fun to paint.

Edit: These guys are remarkably generic. I like the AoS style generally, but I also like that these are just generic skeletons - really well done. They're even more generic than their bat-wing helmeted Warhammer colleagues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on April 13, 2017, 05:01:12 PM
GW skeletons have always impressed me but these guys are something special.  A good looking bag of bones but then very strong character and a sense of identity;  Yes please :D .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on April 13, 2017, 05:48:28 PM
These undead are amazing
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 13, 2017, 06:11:36 PM
Those'll do the job nicely!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on April 13, 2017, 11:09:09 PM
I like what I'm seeing, especially as those skellies are snapfit, so no fuss with glueing, just a quick plug & play. Will buy this set for sure  :).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 14, 2017, 01:19:27 AM
 :o GW are really beginning to do themselves justice again. Those skellies are amazing. And only 1 skull in sight. I can see them being used in a variety of settings. I wonder if they are trying to sell their minis so they fit into other games much like others try to sell minis for GW games (not that they need to as they are a sizable chunk of the market) GW to buy list: not-necromunda book, skellies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 14, 2017, 01:50:00 AM
My first thought was that GW might need to be careful - they're starting to tread into "normal" Fantasy again.  Heck if they aren't huge and expensive I'd buy some for dungeon crawls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 14, 2017, 03:06:31 AM
Agreed. I didn't think about the enormous scale they will be when thinking about these guys. Still they are very nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 14, 2017, 10:48:06 AM
It says in the article they match the existing undead figures.

They were sculpted by Maxime Corbeil (http://www.puttyandpaint.com/captain_normandy) apparently. It was mentioned in the last white dwarf that we'd see his first GW figures soon, so I guess these are they. Well done that man!

Edit:

Here's a quick resized comparison...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/Scribe_Enzo/SS_SoW_Deathrattle1_zpsdtu9uwl0.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 14, 2017, 03:15:08 PM
Yep, perfect Wights!

I'll be buying these if the others are like this.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on April 14, 2017, 03:41:01 PM
I don't worry too much about scale creep and scale diiferences; irl people also vary about build and height, up to 20-25%, even within the same population. The main thing is to keep the weaponry roughly of equal size and base them the same ( you can win or loose a few mm's with basing too ).
As said, like the models, snapfit I feel is a pre, will certainly buy this game and hopefully it will be played and enjoyed as much as Silver Tower within Clan McDane  ;).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: N.C.S.E on April 14, 2017, 06:08:46 PM
I occasionally wander into this thread for a browse and I haven't seen a single miniature I've looked the look of for a long time until I saw these skeletons just now. Character to skeletons I've never seen before in a wargaming miniature.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Barbarian on April 15, 2017, 12:05:32 AM
Except the ones from Rackham in 2003... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 15, 2017, 01:55:55 AM
Yep, the Rackham are hard to beat...hell almost anything by old Rackham was hard to beat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 16, 2017, 11:37:01 AM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on April 14, 2017, 03:41:01 PM
I don't worry too much about scale creep and scale diiferences; irl people also vary about build and height, up to 20-25%, even within the same population. The main thing is to keep the weaponry roughly of equal size and base them the same ( you can win or loose a few mm's with basing too ).

This is a very good point. People worry far too much about scale differences, I think. Look at the line-up of a national rugby side during the anthems: even though everyone there is well above average size, the "scale differences" are remarkable: between 5'6 and 6'10, for example, and between 80 and perhaps 130 kg. The differences at a low-level club game might not be so pronounced, but you still get a huge variety of "scales". I can't imagine that a Dark Age comitatus (for example) would have been much different in this regard.

I think the new skeletons look terrific. That spearman would make a superb undead hero or champion for just about any game. The somewhat outsize armour actually works well (for once!), because it emphasises the desiccated status of the occupant.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 22, 2017, 05:38:32 AM
SW Armageddon is up for preorder now: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/shadowwar-armageddon-sb-eng-2017
Pricey (if bought downunder, used to almost be able to get the box of Necromunda for this price) I may see if I can pick it up from Ebay with a UK stockist.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 22, 2017, 12:05:24 PM
It's £25 here, which is neither unusual nor unreasonable for a 200-page softback rule book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 22, 2017, 12:19:58 PM
Yeah, pretty good price.
I'll see if I can get it at some discount site, but I somehow doubt it, being that's it's limited 1 per order.

Either way, I'm getting this. First GW must have in years...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 22, 2017, 02:07:29 PM
And here's the official announcement of the new edition of 40K

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/22/the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000-your-questions-answered/

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 22, 2017, 02:49:29 PM
(https://warhammer40000.gw-hub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Paint-Hero-Banner.jpg)

Big marines! They look just like that one from a few weeks back...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on April 22, 2017, 03:45:10 PM
The big marines look great. I don't want to have to start my marine army over...but I probably will if they are real.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 22, 2017, 03:47:43 PM
That's going to upset a ton of people (and make others quite happy).  I see a lot of 7th ed. players bemoaning the fact that the current books/codices are going to be invalidated.  They "announced" 8th earlier today.  Not a big surprise since they teased it a few months ago.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 22, 2017, 03:56:29 PM
True scale marines at last - will be great!

Also:

Quote
Why should I trust you?
Come on! This is New Games Workshop™

Seriously though, everything we’re talking about now is just an extension of all the community engagement work we’ve been doing over this last year and a half. We’ve learned a lot from you guys and gals, and we’ve tried really hard to make sure everything you’ve asked for is included. And if we’ve missed something? Drop us a line on the Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page and let us know. We’ll make sure your requests are given proper consideration.

This might be the first time I've seen official acknowledgement that they have intentionally changed for the better (thereby admitting they had been ballsing up for so long).

Quite looking forward to the new 40k. Not really bothered about all the tearing of garments that might happen (usually it's tournament players going apeshit anyway, and who cares about them?  ;)), they will never please everyone. At least they are nowadays acknowledging their fans are human and not walking wallets.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on April 22, 2017, 04:03:25 PM
Sounds like 40k has been somewhat AoS'd, at least from a gameplay point of view.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 22, 2017, 04:06:42 PM
Yep, very AoS...which will alienate a lot of people, and then bring alternate players in/back.  Horus Heresy will remain with its current rule set for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 22, 2017, 04:17:32 PM
I wonder if they'll get away from 'I go, you go'. Or at least, 'I do all my turn, you do all your turn'. Something like Burning of Prospero, maybe, but less of a mess. It's a shame AoS didn't follow the Lord of the Rings turn sequence at least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 22, 2017, 04:37:51 PM
I'm a bit sad that I don't have a full 40K army anymore. Sold them off to my great regret...

I suppose now is the time to put the nose to the grindstone and really work on my Sororitas.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on April 22, 2017, 04:42:46 PM
Well this is going to make me very happy. Our group is sticking with 7th edition. I can get all the 7th codices now for cheap on Ebay once they release the new crap. Score!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 22, 2017, 05:01:14 PM
Well, to each his own.

I've played 7th ed only once and, while I enjoyed throwing some dice with a friend, I found the game utter rubbish.

If the new edition actually improves gameplay, especially with free/cheap rules/codices, I might actually start playig again.

If not, I'll just find alternative rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on April 22, 2017, 05:02:36 PM
Quote from: fitterpete on April 22, 2017, 04:42:46 PM
Well this is going to make me very happy. Our group is sticking with 7th edition. I can get all the 7th codices now for cheap on Ebay once they release the new crap. Score!

Or they'll be sold for twice the price because they're OOP RARE Collectible L@@K.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 22, 2017, 05:10:39 PM
We'll probably stick to 2nd ed.  I think GW will have to do some massive stuff to make me interested in current 40K.  Sadly, AoS has some exceptionally silly things which likewise don't appeal to me. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on April 23, 2017, 05:28:38 PM
Stone Cold
The purge has already started. I picked up 6 codices on ebay today for 35-40% off. These were just the ones I really wanted to get, I'll probably wait for the rest to get cheaper.

Played a 4 player game of 7th last night with 4 players 6000pts aside(we have a 20 ft table).Great fun was had by all.

Pete

Edit I just got 5 more at 50-60% off.Man this is great!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vindice on April 23, 2017, 07:30:07 PM
If they make 40k as simply as AoS, I'm back in for the first time since 2nd. Especially seeing as I now have SWA for small scale skirmish and to use my converted Inq28 figures...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 24, 2017, 09:09:50 AM
I think that 40k will be a lot like AoS with some differences.

Namely, given how common vehicles are in 40k (like Rhinos for example), I cannot see that the datafax style cards for these will be anything other than inconvenient. I would therefore expect these to have some simplified form of vehicle rules - maybe key parts of the model's weaponry/mobility stop working at half-wounds or such.

Similarly, whilst the AoS big monster datafaxes (er, warscrolls) are fine, in 40k there is a whole faction that contains many of these big monsters. Again, it will be a pain to play if each one has to be tracked with a card full of effects. On the other hand, something that mirrors a "lighter" vehicle rules like halving certain key stats (WS, BS, and A?) when the monster is at half-wounds would again be fine.

The current AoS monstrous creature warscolls with the detailed degradation of the model's performance as it suffers damage would be then limited to the biggest units - Knights, giant walkers, superheavies, and possibly a few iconic larger-sized units like Land Raiders.

Flyers, which I'm really not a fan of at this scale, would also need some consideration. I suspect that they will continue to be units that come in from off-table and fly across before exiting again. Ultimately though, I'd rather they were kept for big game sizes (or specific scenarios) where appropriate anti-air units can also exist without upsetting game balance.

Lastly, the shooting rules will undoubtedly be tightened up - there's a lot more shooting in 40k than in Fantasy, so it makes sense to define (and possibly more carefully limit) the effects of shooting.

If AoS was four pages of rules (i.e., a sheet of paper folded in half), I can see this new 40k being eight pages long with these changes (i.e., two sheets of paper folded in half).

With respect to the new Marines, I feel this is not just an attempt to large-scale them, nor to force everybody to re-buy their models again. Rather, this is also a golden opportunity for GW to reign in the sheer number of SM kits and create some design/manufacturing space for other armies. I do get that 40k is about humans' struggle against the forces that beset them, but the Marine bias has made it difficult to launch new ranges I think. And, in the end, it's variety that helps to keep things fun and interesting for everyone, so it's still important for non-Marine armies to be popular and receive support/new models.

I hope that GW do some new fun things for 40k, produce some 8E rules that encourage more diverse game sizes and allow for more balanced games, and that they don't torpedo the success of new model kits with too much "bling" or prices that make your eyes water and knees tremble (Sigmarines, I'm looking at you!). And hey, since I'm wishlisting now, I hope that we don't get any more of those horrible 5-model "dual unit" kits!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 25, 2017, 01:21:04 AM
Ok...this is really the New GWTM

Quote
As Andy mentioned on tonight’s Warhammer 40,000 Live Q&A over on Facebook, our Customer Service teams are all set to give you vouchers for any codexes or Warhammer 40,000 rulebooks you’ve bought in the last 8 weeks.

So, if you’ve just bought a codex for a new army, or the rules for Warhammer 40,000 itself, in the weeks before the new edition was announced last Saturday, we’ll send you a voucher for the cost of your book. Usually, we’d do this for up to 4 weeks before the update was announced, but as we’re so excited about the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, we’ll be extending this to 8 weeks (8 weeks for the 8th edition!). And of course, you can keep your book(s).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/24/just-bought-a-codex-dont-worry-weve-got-you-covered/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 25, 2017, 01:36:16 AM
Quote from: Predatorpt on April 25, 2017, 01:21:04 AM
Ok...this is really the New GWTM

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/24/just-bought-a-codex-dont-worry-weve-got-you-covered/

Indeed. We were plannign for this to be GW only purchases but no, Independent stockists count aswell.GW are outright letting people swap in to the game whilst avoiding hurting too many feelings. Seems a solid strategy to get people into trying the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 25, 2017, 01:39:37 AM
They are definitely going a long way to reclaim a lot of lost goodwill. I don't feel so stubborn about purchasing from them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 25, 2017, 01:57:19 AM
Here's some news on the 8th Edition, from the live Q&A:

Quote
Credit to JT Mcdowell

8th edition summary from the live stream today

-Any weapon can hurt anything.
-Armour values are gone, but Vehicles get weaker as they get damaged.
-No stat capped at 10, and way more damage capacity on things like Knights.
-tactical interrupts with command points,14 basic Force Orgs. to generate those.
-Templates are gone.
-Massive playtesting, Every unit has been reexamined.Balance may be on the horizon!
-Sounds like combined factions like AoS, but everything available Day 1. Codexes with army specific force orgs to generate command points to follow.
-All models and all factions will be represented. Good news!
-"Power Level" points like AoS for narrative and "Matched Play" points similar to now.
-Allies are still viable, but no more sharing abilities across factions. Abilities work by Keyword, like Adeptus Astartes, Astra Militarum or Dark Angel.
-Anyone who has bought a codex in the last 8 weeks will get a voucher for its value, with proof of purchase. Details on the warhammer site. That's massive, and a huge boon to the community.
-Move Stat is also back and the statline will do "a lot more work" wonder what that will look like?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 25, 2017, 06:33:43 AM
Well, they do seem to be changing, and I admit I'm very tempted to have another bash at 40k.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 25, 2017, 07:47:59 AM
Quote
They are definitely going a long way to reclaim a lot of lost goodwill. I don't feel so stubborn about purchasing from them.

A while ago I was gonna post that I still wouldn't buy a whole lot of them. It still expensive as hell.
But I might buy a box of grey knights for SWA.
And maybe some more space marine scouts, just to have a team.
And I allways fancied a squad of battle sisters.
If 8th edition is actually fun, I might finally get that deathstrike missile for my guard.
I'd allso like that Space marine flying troop transport...

Ooooooooooooooh, crap......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 25, 2017, 09:01:16 AM
Good for GW I say.

We've all been longing for this sort of interaction, and for them to listen to their customers - now that it seems they'd openly decided to give it a go, I can only hope this turns out to be very successful for them. :)

And refunding obsolete army books bought in the last two months...? That *has* to be a first for GW!  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on April 25, 2017, 09:14:59 AM
Whelp GW finally done it, yep that's right they won my interest back heh.

Not saying I'll dive right into this new 40k Edition as both Bolt Action/Konflik '47 and Beyond the Gates of Antares take up my playing time but I will be watching what happens and if time/funds allow dip my toe again.

Good times and the rage quitters selling their snizzle on Ebay should save my wallet too :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 25, 2017, 10:25:55 AM
This is the first time in a couple of editions that makes me wonder what the rules will be like. I might get one of my old armies from the shelve ring up an old gaming buddy and give it a go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 25, 2017, 10:56:09 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on April 25, 2017, 07:47:59 AM
A while ago I was gonna post that I still wouldn't buy a whole lot of them. It still expensive as hell.
But I might buy a box of grey knights for SWA.
And maybe some more space marine scouts, just to have a team.
And I allways fancied a squad of battle sisters.
If 8th edition is actually fun, I might finally get that deathstrike missile for my guard.
I'd allso like that Space marine flying troop transport...

Ooooooooooooooh, crap......
lol
That's a long list
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 25, 2017, 12:46:22 PM
No kidding :P

I think it would be better for me if their rules continue to suck :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 25, 2017, 12:47:28 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on April 25, 2017, 12:46:22 PM
I think it would be better for me if their rules continue to suck :D

 lol

GW just can't win, can they?  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 25, 2017, 02:34:59 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on April 25, 2017, 12:46:22 PM
I think it would be better for me if their rules continue to suck :D

lol

True!

They started getting my intereset again with the Mechanicus release, it blew my mind that they were finally doing that. Then GS Cults... just crazy.
I am very certain I will be buying into 8th.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on April 25, 2017, 02:36:29 PM
Well GW have won this time for me ... I've played Warhammer Fantasy since the Skaven came out (1986?), but have never been tempted by 40k. However, with Shadow War Armageddon, and now version 8, I'm actually looking at making my first ever purchases. Just wish the skaven were there too (and yes I know about Mantic's space skaven).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on April 25, 2017, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on April 25, 2017, 01:57:19 AM
Here's some news on the 8th Edition, from the live Q&A:

Quote

-Any weapon can hurt anything.
-Armour values are gone, but Vehicles get weaker as they get damaged.



Granted I'm not well versed on actual 40k rules but wouldn't the above mean that Imperial Guard's going to lasgun the living daylights
out of absolutely anything by sheer amount of lasguns firing?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 25, 2017, 03:07:51 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on April 25, 2017, 03:00:36 PM
Granted I'm not well versed on actual 40k rules but wouldn't the above mean that Imperial Guard's going to lasgun the living daylights
out of absolutely anything by sheer amount of lasguns firing?

There are multiple ways this could be avoided, IIRC at some point you could have "to hit" scores of 7+ which required a roll of 6 followed by a roll of 4+ they might implement that. You could do the same but in groupings of a squad's dice. Alternatively they might just increase the point value of the guards a bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 25, 2017, 03:16:22 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on April 25, 2017, 03:00:36 PM


Granted I'm not well versed on actual 40k rules but wouldn't the above mean that Imperial Guard's going to lasgun the living daylights
out of absolutely anything by sheer amount of lasguns firing?



I imagine this will be similar to how vehicles and larger units currently work in AoS.

Whilst it's theoretically possible for a lasgun to would the landraider, it will be needing solid 6's across the board, and while yes you could kill it in one turn with 300 lasgun shots, The actual in game chance of that is pretty small.
It's similar to the steam tank i run with my empire army, It CAN be killed by goblin arrows if enough goblins shoot at it, But it's yet to happen and it's more likely that a squad of goblins might try to bum rush it before getting blown to oblivion by cannons and guns.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 25, 2017, 06:12:20 PM
@ Fiona White:

There's so many (fairly simple) ways this could be done, that I'm sure that we'll probably see a few examples rather than just one.

For instance, an IG squad could have a rule called "weight of fire" that gives them a modest chance of killing something big if there's enough of them firing at it together. However, perhaps that rule needs all ten models alive, and not moving, and still requires them to roll  six to hit and six to wound.

Or perhaps, it could be done by an Officer issuing an order like "Target the weak points" that gives one squad within "x" range an improved chance to damage something big if they hit it.

Maybe there will be a rule will be on especially tough models, perhaps allowing them to re-roll their fixed saves against low-damage attacks. If those models have lots of wounds as well, then it's going to take more than sixty lasguns to down one!

Ultimately, the move to a system where anything *could* damage anything else is to help alleviate the feeling that every list a player makes (and therefore the models they build) has to be tailored against every enemy; instead, all-comers lists are much more possible, and this helps encourage players actually finish and paint their armies.

For the sake of 4 pages of free rules, plus the free unit entries, I would suggest having a look on the GW website at their Age of Sigmar stuff to see how aspects of 40k8E might look. It's not a super in-depth game that's going to win awards for its brilliance, nor is it a replacement for a mass-battle game, but it is a perfectly acceptable light game for about 20-60 models each side, and it's not like you have to buy the rules or spend loads of time learning them (4 pages!). ;)

Anyway, just some thoughts! :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 25, 2017, 06:22:13 PM
While I'm not personally keen on everything hurting everything (removes a tactical element) they stated on an FAQ on Facebook that it would take...a "lot" of fire from Guardsman to destroy or hinder something like a Land Raider.  I can see an easy way around this, but I'll patiently wait to see how it turns out.  Being free, I'll check it out - but overall I'm not likely to dive in playing 40K again.

On a plus, they stated no shooting in/out of combat...so that's one of my biggest negatives out of the way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 25, 2017, 06:31:21 PM
If you use your imagination then on a sci fi battlefield everything being able to hurt everything makes sense. It might not be that a lasgun is piercing a tank's armour, but it could've got into the viewing port, pinged off the crewman's face and then ricocheted into a vital component. Weirder things have happened...

I think it's important for every model to actually be even the littlest bit useful all the time, otherwise you go back to the whole obsolete unit no one buys or uses thing. Which is crap, and is how it's been for too long. List building shouldn't be part of the tactical element.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on April 25, 2017, 07:01:49 PM
Quote from: Gibby on April 25, 2017, 06:31:21 PM
List building shouldn't be a big part of the tactical element.

Hear, hear. The metagaming aspect was what put me off the Warhammer family in the first place. I prefer games to be decided on the table, not on the paper.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 25, 2017, 07:07:21 PM
Lots of games sadly go that way as well. Themes goes out the window and meta takes over. I believe X-Wing is well down that rabbit hole, as is Malifaux and some others.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 25, 2017, 07:23:52 PM
Quote from: Gibby on April 25, 2017, 07:07:21 PM
Lots of games sadly go that way as well. Themes goes out the window and meta takes over. I believe X-Wing is well down that rabbit hole, as is Malifaux and some others.

oh yea, the first time warhachine did a major rule overhaul the meta quickly became "finding the best combo" to the point of people playing with "count as" models all the time to test a new "build" it felt a lot like magic the gathering, which I quit for the same reason really. Give me thematic over beaten to death meta any day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 25, 2017, 08:45:37 PM
Any game which is aimed at tournaments, or serious competition...particularly where prizes/trophies/swag are on the line will complete sour the experience for everyone else outside of your own small gaming group.  It has a trickle-down effect and makes casual pick-up play nearly impossible.

Playing with a small group of like minded individuals?  Solid.  Anything else?  Hold on to your butts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 25, 2017, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: Elbows on April 25, 2017, 08:45:37 PM
Any game which is aimed at tournaments, or serious competition...particularly where prizes/trophies/swag are on the line will complete sour the experience for everyone else outside of your own small gaming group.  It has a trickle-down effect and makes casual pick-up play nearly impossible.

Playing with a small group of like minded individuals?  Solid.  Anything else?  Hold on to your butts.

Nothing makes me want to sell off an army more than playing it in a tournament. So unpleasant.

I actually wanted to like Infinity, but the guys running demos at GenCon were into winning even as they were teaching it to newbs like me. Pretty much soured me on that too- I took that as an indicator of the 'overall game culture'.

Honestly, the games I enjoy the most are ones I run as a GM...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 25, 2017, 09:31:43 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on April 25, 2017, 08:55:29 PM
Nothing makes me want to sell off an army more than playing it in a tournament. So unpleasant.

I actually wanted to like Infinity, but the guys running demos at GenCon were into winning even as they were teaching it to newbs like me. Pretty much soured me on that too- I took that as an indicator of the 'overall game culture'.

Honestly, the games I enjoy the most are ones I run as a GM...

That sums the whole feel of 'tournament play' up for me.
I used to be regular 40k player when it was amongst a group of like-minded friends, playing at least once a week.
When I moved I joined a local club.
I entered a tournament there thinking that it would be the same but maybe a 'little' more serious, and soon realised that those that played 'competitively' were not my cup of tea and gave up 40k soon after.
I have played 40K once in the last ten years since.

The same with a Blood Bowl tourney at GW HQ.
Whilst I met loads of great people there who really knew how to enjoy themselves two of the six I was drawn to play against made me vow never to play that game 'seriously' ever again.
(One of those two was actually 'red-carded' from the tournament having picked up a 'yellow' against me for cheating and then arguing with a ref about it. I guess he then did it again....).

No more tournament games for me.

I agree with your sentiment regarding GM'ing a game.
I enjoy that far more and treat it as I did when GM'ing an RPG: Sometimes it is better for gameplay, story and harmony that the players 'win' even if they didnt.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 25, 2017, 10:33:42 PM
They have now posted some examples of the unit profiles:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/25/warhammer-40000-unit-profiles/

Tomorrow they'll post some examples of the weapon profiles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 26, 2017, 12:16:37 AM
As more info comes out, I'm liking the stuff a little less.  Shame really, but I think it's still a huge move in the right direction for 40K.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on April 26, 2017, 04:24:40 AM
That's a lot of responses.  :D

I was thinking about the combination of everything now being able to hurt anything and the "vehicles get weaker as they take damage"
resulting in a first few hits damaging a vehicle, causing it to start taking damage more easily and being less capable of hurting enemies back
and shortly after resulting in a lot of near or totally useless scrap metal.

Guess that'll depend on the new weapon profiles, my current train of thought's going with the old lasgun profile with it having rapid fire, allowing
a basic Guardsman squad to toss down 20 shots on a good day (30 if using an Order) and with Imperial Guard being able to field at least 25-55
(plus heavy weapon teams & special weapon squads) guys as a single Troops choice...   ;D

But to clarify I'm only gaming in the 40k universe with the In The Emperor's Name ruleset anyways, so official rules changes don't really effect that.
The whole big battle thing just isn't my thing.
Mostly I'm just amused by how this suddenly changes the entire universe as before a Land Raider could fearlessly push into lightly armed enemies
but now guys with las- and autoguns, heck probably even knives, can suddenly tear apart anything - walkers, tanks, titans, fortresses.

What I'd love to see is the retconning of several past battles, the crews of previously invulnerable metal juggernaughts watching in disbelief as their
machines of war are suddenly undone by light arms fire. That'd be quality entertainment, I tells ya.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on April 27, 2017, 12:13:39 AM
Based on what I've seen (and can comprehend based on my limited 40K knowledge) I see some good and bad points. I don't like how flamers don't have a template anymore, but I do like that different models have different move speeds. There's no way that an ogryn should be able to move as fast as a harlequin, imo. Back to your regularly scheduled headless chook running.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 27, 2017, 12:31:56 AM
Wow, I am so out of touch with 40k. They got rid of move speeds?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on April 27, 2017, 03:23:02 AM
In Rogue Trader rules harlequins and ogryns both have move of 6. Normal eldar a move of 5. Those ogryns have a surprising turn of pace.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 27, 2017, 03:44:20 AM
Long legs :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on April 27, 2017, 05:25:30 AM
Fair enough, but having all foot infantry move at the same speed made little sense to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 27, 2017, 05:40:03 AM
Definitely. Think if squats were back in the universe. Squats moving the same speed as harlequins, or hormagaunts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 27, 2017, 09:00:31 AM
Quote
Wow, I am so out of touch with 40k. They got rid of move speeds?

Yes. yes the did...
In 1998   lol

Don't feel bad. I just pre-ordered a GW product.
What year is this??
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 27, 2017, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 27, 2017, 05:40:03 AM
Definitely. Think if squats were back in the universe. Squats moving the same speed as harlequins, or hormagaunts.

Maybe this is all because the Squats will be making a return....
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on April 27, 2017, 11:05:01 AM
Quote from: Mason on April 27, 2017, 10:04:28 AM
Maybe this is all because the Squats will be making a return....
 ;)



I'd love to see squats. And Space Skaven ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 27, 2017, 11:21:56 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on April 27, 2017, 09:00:31 AM
Yes. yes the did...
In 1998   lol

Don't feel bad. I just pre-ordered a GW product.
What year is this??
Really. I think I actually was still collecting Tyranids then. I did buy something like 4th ed rules at one stage and now it rings a bell. '98 yeesh.

Quote from: Mason on April 27, 2017, 10:04:28 AM
Maybe this is all because the Squats will be making a return....
 ;)

Well they brought back genestealer cults so you never know.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 27, 2017, 11:37:53 AM
Re: Movement, one thing that became very quickly apparent in 3E with universal movement distances is how much more dynamic the game became. Even with the return of movement values in 8E, I fully expect many units to retain a movement value of around 6", simply because with the old RT/2E typical 4" movement, it takes forever for troops to move on a 6' x 4' board when a game meaningfully lasts about 4-5 turns.

Re: Squats, those are dead and gone. GW confessed quietly on several occasions that they tried to come up with cool ideas for them, and in the end simply felt that they couldn't come up with anything compelling. Therefore, after a long time on ice, they were finally written out of the background as having been wholly consumed by the Tyranids. Of course, GS Cults were recently resurrected as a faction with models, but then they had always remained part of the current background - unlike the Squats.

Re: Space Skaven, I don't think 40k needs more swarm/horde armies really. Orks and Tyranids in particular have a hard enough time already, and I'm struggling to seeing what Space Skaven could bring that's unique besides being man-rats... Most of their schtick is already covered by Orks.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 27, 2017, 11:59:10 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on April 27, 2017, 09:00:31 AM
Yes. yes the did...
In 1998   lol

Don't feel bad. I just pre-ordered a GW product.
What year is this??
THAT long ago? good grief.  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 27, 2017, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 27, 2017, 11:37:53 AM
Re: Squats, those are dead and gone. GW confessed quietly on several occasions that they tried to come up with cool ideas for them, and in the end simply felt that they couldn't come up with anything compelling. Therefore, after a long time on ice, they were finally written out of the background as having been wholly consumed by the Tyranids. Of course, GS Cults were recently resurrected as a faction with models, but then they had always remained part of the current background - unlike the Squats.

Not ALL of the Squats were consumed.
Some of them were hiding in Robert Girlyman's stasis casket.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 27, 2017, 12:52:26 PM
Fair enough then!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on April 27, 2017, 01:03:45 PM
Quote from: Mason on April 27, 2017, 10:04:28 AM
Maybe this is all because the Squats will be making a return....
 ;)



They are already here. Check out the Kharadron Overlords, in the AOS section.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on April 28, 2017, 07:35:11 AM
There were the Demiurg which were kind of interesting then there was the matter of one Sholto Unwerth's heritage :D .  I can see them being an awkward edition to 40k lore as an abhuman race.  With the Mechanicus cults appropriating the tinker/wonderbuilder role it left them in a bit of lurch.  When you strip away that and the ancestor worship/veneration for the monotheistic Imperial cult short, stocky humans with facial hair falls short of a compelling faction identity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 28, 2017, 08:14:13 AM
New White Dwarf model for those that haven't seen it yet:

(http://i.imgur.com/gzEE08N.jpg)

Showcasing the new Space Marine armour being designed for 8E, but modified in a the usual tongue-in-cheek way for ol' Grombrindal.

Also, despite the lack of gauntlets to paint red, he seems to be painted in a Crimson Fists scheme?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 28, 2017, 08:16:23 AM
He looks like a squat  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 28, 2017, 08:42:28 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 28, 2017, 08:16:23 AM
He looks like a squat  ;)

...Hence why I though to post him here!  ;D  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 28, 2017, 08:51:26 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 28, 2017, 08:16:23 AM
He looks like a squat  ;)

Ya see what happens when you spend 10.000 years in Girlyman's stassis casket?
Yer fink yer a Spaace Maureen and not a Squat!
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 28, 2017, 09:08:15 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on April 28, 2017, 08:14:13 AM
New White Dwarf model for those that haven't seen it yet:

Showcasing the new Space Marine armour being designed for 8E, but modified in a the usual tongue-in-cheek way for ol' Grombrindal.

Also, despite the lack of gauntlets to paint red, he seems to be painted in a Crimson Fists scheme?

Is he in the shop yet? I've just searched for Dwarf, and it was none of the 63 results on the main store or 16 results on forgeworld.

I thought they'd stopped the annual white dwarf figure, as it's been a few years since I've seen one. Any word on material - resin or plastic?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 28, 2017, 10:19:37 AM
@ zemjw:

I think he's a May release.

Also WD didn't ever really stop doing exclusive minis, rather they just sort of petered out like WD itself did. With the re-launch of the current WD, they simply re-purposed the 8E WHFB plastic Trollslayer for AoS, and this power-armoured dwarf is therefore the first new "WD" model for a little while.

As for the material... Hard to say. Some of the details do look like they have been sculpted with plastic in mind, and GW may well decide to make him in plastic if they think they can sell enough or get enough return from his pricing. However, I suspect it may end up being resin, just because the recent SoB Canoness and Chaos Warrior were both resin, and I would think this is a similarly limited model.

I've seen a price of £17.50 bandied about, but I have no idea if he'll actually be more or less than that; nor do I know if his purchase requires a WD subscription, or if he'll be on "open sale" for a limited time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 28, 2017, 10:36:43 AM
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for it.

They used to be WD only, but the last few I've just bought over the counter at the Warhammer shop, so fingers crossed.

Price is silly as ever, but I view these as display pieces rather than gaming pieces, so I don't mind so much (I still mind, just not as much as paying £15+ for a plastic chaos champion bloke ;D)

I'm hoping for plastic. The limited edition figures I have in F***Cast haven't been too bad, but I'm sure my luck will run out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 28, 2017, 11:37:51 AM
People could use him as a short Space Wolf. Not sure if the genetics would allow that though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Humorous_Conclusion on April 28, 2017, 11:44:10 AM
For those people keen to see the back of the "meta" stuff, I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon. GW have just posted an article discussing the different army builds you can use for the new Kharadron Overlords in Age of Sigmar.

Simplifying the basic rules in AOS seems to have shifted a lot of the complexity onto the unit special rules and the meta remains alive and well. I wouldn't expected the new 40K to be any different.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on April 28, 2017, 11:59:53 AM
By shifting the detailed rules to the units, and by releasing free unit rules, it does give GW the opportunity to change units in the light of player feedback though. This could in turn give them a continual release schedule, rather than needing a new edition every few years, which I imagine would also see less disruption to their sales.

I'd prefer to see far fewer unit special rules in both games (and most of those that remain should really be universal rules which could be put on a crib sheet), but I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on April 28, 2017, 05:34:50 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 28, 2017, 11:37:51 AM
People could use him as a short Space Wolf. Not sure if the genetics would allow that though.

One where the Gene-seed has gone wrong! He's been short all his life, but developed a Napoleonic Complex and makes up for it by trying harder! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 28, 2017, 11:28:50 PM
These civilian vehicles look brilliant
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120199054_GalvanicServohaulers01.jpg)

They'll be available to pre-order tomorrow, from the GW (but are available already on GW's New Zealand version of the site, lol). Plus more Sector Mechanicus terrain and the White Dwarf in power-armour  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on April 28, 2017, 11:32:25 PM
Oh wow those are great! They could also be used in a fallout setting with a minimum of conversion work.

These could actually tempt me to give GW some of my money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 28, 2017, 11:52:25 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on April 28, 2017, 11:28:50 PM
These civilian vehicles look brilliant
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120199054_GalvanicServohaulers01.jpg)

They'll be available to pre-order tomorrow, from the GW (but are available already on GW's New Zealand version of the site, lol). Plus more Sector Mechanicus terrain and the White Dwarf in power-armour  ;)

Well there's a plus side to having to pay exhorbitantly inflated Southern hemisphere prices.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 28, 2017, 11:57:04 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 28, 2017, 11:52:25 PM
Well there's a plus side to having to pay exhorbitantly inflated Southern hemisphere prices.

You can say that indeed. I was doing some conversions to see how much would they cost and I was appalled by the difference in prices :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 29, 2017, 12:52:26 AM
They snuck those out! not even a sniffter of a rumour!
They look great. I want to convert ...something ..not sure what.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on April 29, 2017, 01:56:18 AM
I like that retro vibe.  20s/30s mining kit powered by space juice; Very cool!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 29, 2017, 05:33:41 AM
 :o :o
I MUST have them!
 :-* :-*

OK, GW, you win.....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 29, 2017, 07:38:29 AM
Oh wow fusion powered crawlers I need those  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on April 29, 2017, 08:10:16 AM
Quote from: Mason on April 29, 2017, 05:33:41 AM
:o :o
I MUST have them!
 :-* :-*

OK, GW, you win.....



Yeah, I'm trying to squeeze them in to any current projects, but I can't manage it! :'(

Honest to god, it's like someone at Gw has gone "Wow! Did you guys know there's a World Wide Interweb out there?!? There's all these people we could be getting money off of, saying stuff about us!" Suddenly nearly every single new GW has peaked my interest and I haven't played 40K in donkeys ages! :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 29, 2017, 09:33:59 AM
Ok, that's more than nice  8) 8) 8
Not cheap, I expect, but they are rather splendid. 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on April 29, 2017, 09:36:08 AM
Amazing. And the good thing is, more - resin - manufacturers will jump on the bandwagon and release their own tractor variations, so more choice  :).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on April 29, 2017, 10:36:52 AM
Just checked and the civilian vehicles will retail at £25.00 not bad in my opinion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 29, 2017, 10:45:14 AM
Quote from: Belgian on April 29, 2017, 10:36:52 AM
Just checked and the civilian vehicles will retail at £25.00 not bad in my opinion.

Anyone have a link?
 ???

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on April 29, 2017, 10:54:37 AM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Sector-Mechanicum-Galvanic-Servohaulers-2017

Not sure about their size, though. I think they will be a lot smaller than expected...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gunbird on April 29, 2017, 10:56:54 AM
There is a pic in that link with miniatures around it. Not small at all, dear chap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 29, 2017, 11:20:11 AM
The price  is reasonable (although shipping to Malta isn't....) and they can be seen with the scenery bits too, not tiny.
And yes, I pre-ordered.... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on April 29, 2017, 11:41:33 AM
*must buy a grimdark tractor*

back when I bought White Dwarf (so 15-20 years ago) there was a great little article about an abandoned dig site - I think it's when they were creating the first stirrings of Necrons via GorkaMorka maybe, and I've always wanted to recreate it. Seems like they've done half the work for me!


edit: hahahahahahaha red fire extinguisher, good to know that particular element of culture has survived 38,000 years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 29, 2017, 11:44:30 AM
Quote from: Jagannath on April 29, 2017, 11:41:33 AM
edit: hahahahahahaha red fire extinguisher, good to know that particular element of culture has survived 38,000 years.
That and the tool box! :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 29, 2017, 11:49:02 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on April 29, 2017, 11:44:30 AM
That and the tool box! :D
Both toolbox and extinguisher should have been made of skullz.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 29, 2017, 11:52:59 AM
'Sector Mechanicus Galvanic Servohaulers'
 o_o o_o o_o

No wonder that I could not find them using the search function!
 :)

And I agree, not a bad price at all.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 29, 2017, 01:31:32 PM
From the website description:

Quote
Also included are a toolbox and fire extinguisher, because in the grim darkness of the far future safety is still a top concern.

Can anyone pinpoint the date that GW recovered a sense of humor?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 29, 2017, 01:35:07 PM
It gets even better when you consider the amount of spikes that cover everything.  lol

Good to see little things like that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on April 29, 2017, 01:58:07 PM
Quote from: Andym on April 29, 2017, 08:10:16 AM
Yeah, I'm trying to squeeze them in to any current projects, but I can't manage it! :'(

MegaCity 1 surely  :D

They don't look half bad really.

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on April 29, 2017, 02:52:12 PM
More positive developments.

Maybe they could do a big skull made out of fire extinguishers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 29, 2017, 02:52:57 PM
Quote from: Jagannath on April 29, 2017, 11:41:33 AM
*must buy a grimdark tractor*

back when I bought White Dwarf (so 15-20 years ago) there was a great little article about an abandoned dig site - I think it's when they were creating the first stirrings of Necrons via GorkaMorka maybe, and I've always wanted to recreate it. Seems like they've done half the work for me!


edit: hahahahahahaha red fire extinguisher, good to know that particular element of culture has survived 38,000 years.
This it ?
http://gorkamorka.overblog.com/2014/10/terrain-necron.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 29, 2017, 03:56:26 PM
That was a pretty cool setup.

I've been planning an Imperial excavation site, basically an old cathedral. The crane would be good for that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on April 29, 2017, 04:29:42 PM
Hey hey hey hey hey hey!

I tried zooming in and counted only about 2-3 skulls per machine. What is this madness? :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 29, 2017, 05:15:55 PM
Just ordered one in from local games store  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 29, 2017, 06:44:24 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on April 29, 2017, 04:29:42 PM
Hey hey hey hey hey hey!

I tried zooming in and counted only about 2-3 skulls per machine. What is this madness? :o

And those that are there should be easy enough to hide.
Something must be very wrong indeed!
 :o :o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on April 29, 2017, 07:01:17 PM
Quote from: Gunbird on April 29, 2017, 10:56:54 AM
There is a pic in that link with miniatures around it. Not small at all, dear chap.

Yes, you're right. Makes it even better value for the money. GW's on fire these days  lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 29, 2017, 08:22:50 PM
The Grombindal figure was up for pre-order - £17.50 resin - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Grombrindal-40-years-of-White-Dwarf-2017

Clicked on it, and already out of stock >:(

It's got the "email me" thing, which I think someone here said meant it would come back into stock. I've clicked that, but whether or not anything comes of it is anyone's guess.

So, yeah, they're improving, but some parts of the company have still not received the memo :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 30, 2017, 12:14:55 AM
This months white dwarf has a big two page spread for Age of Sigmar:Skirmish.

My hope is that since GW have been bringing alot of fan created content into the fold and making it official, they will have given the author of hinterlands a good deal and made it into their official skirmish supplement.

Either way i'm excited to see what they do with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on April 30, 2017, 12:29:49 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on April 29, 2017, 02:52:57 PM
This it ?
http://gorkamorka.overblog.com/2014/10/terrain-necron.html

YES! Thanks - great seeing that again. 'civilian' elements were a revelation to my tiny mind back then!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on April 30, 2017, 12:52:01 AM
Quote from: zemjw on April 29, 2017, 08:22:50 PM
The Grombindal figure was up for pre-order - £17.50 resin - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Grombrindal-40-years-of-White-Dwarf-2017

Clicked on it, and already out of stock >:(

It's got the "email me" thing, which I think someone here said meant it would come back into stock. I've clicked that, but whether or not anything comes of it is anyone's guess.

So, yeah, they're improving, but some parts of the company have still not received the memo :-[

The same happened with the Mechanicus haulers, the first production wave is already sold out. But yes, they said in their official FB page that when it has the "email me" button that means they'll do another run.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on April 30, 2017, 07:09:14 PM
Quote from: Mason on April 29, 2017, 05:33:41 AM
:o :o
I MUST have them!
 :-* :-*

OK, GW, you win.....



I've been wondering what to do with a certain someone's desert scavenger figures, and I reckon they'll go perfectly with those GW vehicles as a backwater AdMech scavenger/archaeology/repair team.  All rust and dust!

Archaeology most be the most dangerous job in the 40k universe - everything you dig up is higher-tech, better-armed and smarter than you.  I can see the Children of the Sands getting into a few scrapes along the way!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 30, 2017, 11:39:58 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on April 30, 2017, 07:09:14 PM
I've been wondering what to do with a certain someone's desert scavenger figures, and I reckon they'll go perfectly with those GW vehicles as a backwater AdMech scavenger/archaeology/repair team.  All rust and dust!

Archaeology most be the most dangerous job in the 40k universe - everything you dig up is higher-tech, better-armed and smarter than you.  I can see the Children of the Sands getting into a few scrapes along the way!

It seems that great minds think alike.
 ;)

Although those vehicle should also go very well with the People of the Sands painted in AdMech colours and something else planned.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 02, 2017, 08:48:57 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on April 30, 2017, 07:09:14 PM
...Archaeology most be the most dangerous job in the 40k universe - everything you dig up is higher-tech, better-armed and smarter than you.  I can see the Children of the Sands getting into a few scrapes along the way!

I too like to live dangerously...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 02, 2017, 12:38:03 PM
Seeing that picture reminds me of the nods in GorkaMorka that the planet they're all marooned on is actually a Necron tomb world! :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 02, 2017, 12:58:45 PM
Exactly!  :)

I've always found it a shame that the demise/fade-out of Gorkamorka never provided the opportunity to explore that (sic) deeper. The Diggas supposedly had stumbled upon some archeotech already, if I recall correctly.

I would have loved to play my 2nd ed Necrons in such a setting. I even have the Skullz necron Autopsy Table, dressed up to be part of an Adeptus mechanicus camp, as an onbjective marker for them...

But perhaps the Necron profiles for Shadow War will finally give me that oportunity. So here's to hoping a future expansion for SW:A will include vehicle rules!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 02, 2017, 03:05:59 PM
The background, stories, and details about Mektown were always some of the best bits about the game for me - and probably the most detailed explanation of Orky life since RT days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 02, 2017, 08:44:09 PM
Just got an email from GW saying Grombrindal's 40th Birthday figure is back in stock for pre-order.

Managed to get him this time :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on May 02, 2017, 09:30:06 PM
@Major_Gilbear

In a lot of ways GorkaMorka struck me as the last hurrah of Rogue Trader.  The more whimsical elements of the 40k universe went there to die as the grimdark was becoming so serious.  It was a fun Mad Max homage and I still regret never tracking down the mutants with their brutal demi-lunes :D .  I thought those were really cool looking models. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on May 13, 2017, 08:43:21 PM
Yet another baffling Blood Bowl release. By what logic do GW produce a goblin team consisting of 12 goblins (useless in game terms) and top that off by setting the price in line with, say, 12 orcs? I haven't looked at the new supplement yet but that policy is gouging in anyone's language. Such a shame.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Wirelizard on May 13, 2017, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on May 13, 2017, 08:43:21 PM
Yet another baffling Blood Bowl release. By what logic do GW produce a goblin team consisting of 12 goblins (useless in game terms) and top that off by setting the price in line with, say, 12 orcs? I haven't looked at the new supplement yet but that policy is gouging in anyone's language. Such a shame.

From the GW website's fluff on the new gobbo team:
"The Scarcrag Snivellers made a decision a long time ago to make an attempt at playing Blood Bowl without all the sneaky tricks employed by most Goblin teams. Eleven Goblins line up at the start of the match – no Trolls, no Secret Weapons – and do their very best to last at least a couple of drives before they’re stomped into the ground."

That seems like an attempt to justify the most boring and cheapest-to-produce gobbo team possible. I'm kind of assuming they'll gradually add the Trolls and Secret Weapons one figure at at time, each in it's own blister, to make turning these figures into a playable, fun gobbo team as expensive as possible.

I'll stick with my gobbo team converted from Reaper Bones Pathfinder gobs, thanks, with the full slate of weapons and trolls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 13, 2017, 10:35:41 PM
I can see the logic. Half of what prompted kirby to axe BB was that people didn't really need to buy anything once they were in.Great for the player but terrible for a business, So while it may be something of a Richard relocation, I do understand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 14, 2017, 03:32:15 AM
Quote from: nic-e on May 13, 2017, 10:35:41 PM
I can see the logic. Half of what prompted kirby to axe BB was that people didn't really need to buy anything once they were in.Great for the player but terrible for a business, So while it may be something of a Richard relocation, I do understand.

This is correct in one business sense, and wrong in another.  It was a commonly held belief back in the mid-late 90's that Specialist games detracted from the sales of normal Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40,000.  What they didn't really address was that it brought in a whole new customer - who was never going to build/buy an army.  Plenty of people play Blood Bowl and don't play 40K/Fantasy.  So is it worth the small amount of time/money to produce one-off game boxes?  I think so.  You're opening up a whole market.  Maybe not a huge one, but a sale is a sale.

Warhammer Quest was probably the most well thought out concept toward this - as it had numerous expansions, as cheap as the $15 character packs (DLC of yore!) and most importantly featured a large monster list, which allowed people who played WHQ to throw in any Warhammer Fantasy models into their games.  So someone who wouldn't spend $900 on building a big fantasy army, might spend $200-300 on additional boxes/blisters of monsters to populate his dungeon.

While plenty of GW's consumers maybe played both, plenty didn't.  You had a lot of dedicated 40K/Fantasy "core" players and a lot of folks who almost exclusively played the 'big box' specialist games.  You want to support something like Blood Bowl?  Make an occasional expansion.  Make plenty of teams (no one plays just one).  Make some nice neoprene stadium mats, and funky dice.  You won't  get the amount of investment that you will from a big spending 40K player but that's no reason to ignore that market segment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on May 14, 2017, 03:37:48 AM
Quote from: Elbows on May 14, 2017, 03:32:15 AM
Make plenty of teams (no one plays just one). 

This is completely anecdotal of course, but many people I played with in the days of Necromunda and the like easily bought a 40k marine army's worth of gangs. Heck, I had a full fleet (every option/ship type available) for each of the four main factions in Battlefleet Gothic. Glad I never totaled up what I spent on that...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 14, 2017, 04:20:31 AM
Oh, I agree.  I have friends who had 4-5-6 gangs for Necromunda aaaand a lot of hired guns etc.  Again, it may not add up to a full big army, but you can get a lot of money out of folks with Specialist games (and...gasp...make games people like!) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on May 14, 2017, 05:57:53 AM
The release sched around BB does seem pell mell.  I am tempted because Blood Bowl was my first GW game.  As much as I like to see the game getting attention I'm just not sure I can give it mine.  With everything already existing (mechanically beyond an odd tweak or two) it falls to the trickle of models breaking into palatable "buy em all" sized lots.  The only logic I can see to the "season" nomenclature is the realization Guild Ball is popular and divvies content into seasons.  In the case of the latter there is narrative and progression of the teams where BB is just time-gating existing clubs to break up the sales.

Tempted but GW actually has me modelling some AOS28 and SW:A/Inq28 stuff atm so I'll keep my dose of GW somewhere it's pleasing me for the time being.  I hope they do well enough they do something with BFG though.  If they relaunch that all be over it like a fat kid on smarties.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on May 14, 2017, 09:08:43 AM
Quote
Glad I never totaled up what I spent on that...

Yeah, I did a rough estimate on what I spend on x-wing.....
Suffice to say, I ain't informing the missus.

I actually really understand the fact that GW continually brings out small additions to the game, instead of making it a huge release in one go:
They have to keep it on the radar. People need to keep talking about it.
Other games that continue to get support do this. If they don't, people will maybe buy in big at the start, but then the internet will 'forget' about it.
By all these small releases it keeps appearing on gaming websites, drawing the attention of new players and keeping things fresh for existing ones.
I think they made the right call by doing this and GW is finally finally using the internet to their advantage....

So, I spend more money on GW products than I did in years.
I'm painting GW models at the moment and I just said I think their buseniss approach makes sense....

WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING????
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on May 14, 2017, 10:46:15 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on May 14, 2017, 09:08:43 AM

So, I spend more money on GW products than I did in years.


I can top that. This year alone I went to the GW more often than in my whole life before  lol .
They're onto something, I like what they are doing, I'm back buying some of their paints and "specialist" Games and I even like playing them. So far I refrained from buying their sprues ( if they were metals/resins I surrendered long time already, those brilliant Skitarii and Dark Eldar... ) , but one day, who knows...  :o.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 14, 2017, 08:21:50 PM
It comes to us all, Duncan, but you're among friends here... you can talk about it :)

This week I bought White Dwarf - my first since issue 102 in 1987!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 15, 2017, 08:17:41 PM
Well, looks like I'll be buying some of the new primaris marines for use as true scale deathwatch.

Also the AOS skirmish book goes up for pre order this weekend, £6 retail.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 16, 2017, 09:15:37 AM
Many good things are happening in Nottingham of late, but the munchkin has not quite left the building it seems... lol

Primaris Marines:
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 16, 2017, 12:54:15 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/primaris-space-marines-faq-may15gw-homepage-post-2/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/primaris-space-marines-faq-may15gw-homepage-post-2/)

That is a pretty decent FAQ, a lot more sane than the GW we are used to, even if it's full of hyped marketing.  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Redmao on May 16, 2017, 02:31:07 PM
The recent Deathwatch Marines already seemed taller than the tactical Marines I already have and now these Primaris dudes are even taller which is great.
Maybe they'll even fit with 30mm sci-fi minis from other brands.

I'm looking forward to test a "regular" SM helmet on these since GW said that helmets and shoulder pads are the same size as the regular Marines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 16, 2017, 03:04:23 PM
Yes, these will be a god send to TrueScale Marine enthusiasts.  I think the stats/fluff are lazy as hell - but good for them.  I do think this will signal a very slow scale creep change until all marines are the "Primaris" derivatives, etc.  That doesn't interest me in the slightest, but there will always be a massive horde of normal scaled plastic space marines.

TrueScale may be neat, but at the point Warhammer 40K currently sits (i.e. throw hundreds of plastic models at the table), I can't fathom making marines even more expensive. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 16, 2017, 03:22:03 PM
I simply went the other route; when starting my IG army, I went for the RT era plastics, which are quite a bit smaller than even the 2nd ed metal guardsmen. So now they scale well with my 'standard' marines...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 16, 2017, 03:42:14 PM
I'm just waiting for someone to make the big marines bigger. Someone will. It's inevitable.

Quote from: Elbows on May 16, 2017, 03:04:23 PM
...TrueScale... TrueScale

StopThat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 16, 2017, 05:20:34 PM
WhySo?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 16, 2017, 05:48:54 PM
CosWhy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on May 16, 2017, 05:54:22 PM
Hmmm from a design point of view, it feels like a missed opportunity to introduce a more distinctive 'New' Armour Mark. The New Helmet is particularly disappointing. From a real world point of view, I will interested to see the prices- Games Workshop stuff is imho too expensive for most of the core models these days anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on May 16, 2017, 06:45:45 PM
I'm still holding out for a set of plastic mark VI Beakies released in a Heresy game :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 16, 2017, 07:05:19 PM
But, but... what about Mk IX armor?  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 16, 2017, 07:35:44 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on May 16, 2017, 07:05:19 PM
But, but... what about Mk IX armor?  ::)

lost in the warp, surpassed during testing, reserved for upgrading standard astartes warriors,microsoft style numbering, take your pick!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 16, 2017, 08:06:02 PM
I would LOVE an HH styled box game which release a new all MkVI sprue.  Seriously...that'd be fabulous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 16, 2017, 09:40:31 PM
I dunno, the MkIV style helmets in the Calth box and on the Primaris marines have become my favourite.

De gustibus and all that...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on May 17, 2017, 12:19:39 AM
I think space marines should be smaller :-p
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 17, 2017, 06:28:39 AM
Quote from: nic-e on May 16, 2017, 07:35:44 PM
lost in the warp, surpassed during testing, reserved for upgrading standard astartes warriors,microsoft style numbering, take your pick!
Chaos will get this one. Or else it will be a prototype which failed to reach the Astartes' standards and which will be plugged by the Ad Mech. Although the upgrade hypothesis is a good one too.

I've missed this sort of speculation... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on May 17, 2017, 01:45:02 PM
Quote
I dunno, the MkIV style helmets in the Calth box and on the Primaris marines have become my favourite.


I like the MkIV Helmets on the Calth marines (and the studded legs) but I feel that the primaris marines helmets are a bit too similar and a bit more, meh!

I'm hoping Mk V Marines come out for HH.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 17, 2017, 02:07:16 PM
Apparently MkIX was "Deathwatch" armour and is represented in their box?  I've never seen much use of proper MkVIII "Errant" armour, really.  Personally the entire MkVI is just my favourite.  The capless shins/legs, the grooved boot tips, the simple chest plate w/ cabling (which is perfectly useful from the MkIV set), studded, non-adorned shoulder pads.  Everything about that mark is my favourite.  I even kit-bashed a bunch of MkIVs to cheat and look like MkVI's because I was lazy.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 17, 2017, 08:47:57 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on May 17, 2017, 06:28:39 AM
Chaos will get this one. Or else it will be a prototype which failed to reach the Astartes' standards and which will be plugged by the Ad Mech. Although the upgrade hypothesis is a good one too.

I've missed this sort of speculation... :D

Or perhaps it was rolled out during the cursed founding and as such is considered bad luck? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 18, 2017, 12:45:55 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on May 16, 2017, 03:42:14 PM
I'm just waiting for someone to make the big marines bigger. Someone will. It's inevitable.


Yeah, I can see it a mile off. They'll be lengthening the torso and arms maybe the thighs too.

I already saw a guy on Instagram make the new dwarves (whatever they're called) more "realistic" by lengthening the legs  ??? Tbf it looked pretty decent painted up but why bother lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 18, 2017, 04:24:00 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on May 18, 2017, 12:45:55 AM
Yeah, I can see it a mile off. They'll be lengthening the torso and arms maybe the thighs too.

I already saw a guy on Instagram make the new dwarves (whatever they're called) more "realistic" by lengthening the legs  ??? Tbf it looked pretty decent painted up but why bother lol.

Really? They're pretty big as it is already.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 18, 2017, 08:18:38 AM
Quote from: beefcake on May 18, 2017, 04:24:00 AM
Really? They're pretty big as it is already.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NWaaJdqoMVs/WRy8o5e4oiI/AAAAAAABJ-E/hUTXm7e85EYdlxUK_RZOoJLTEvtYgDUaACLcB/s1600/Overlord%2Bfirst.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 18, 2017, 08:20:29 AM
Also it occurred to me that after Mk "X" armour, naturally you'll get MK "XL" "XXL" etc.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on May 18, 2017, 09:08:15 AM
@Andrew May

Is the image you posted the dwarf body?  Looks awesome with that marauder head.  I think it would fit in very well with the old RT figures from the late 80s as, "normal" but that'[s scale creep for you.  Apart from the somewhat blocky build the rough looking void suit and mohawk really sell it as a classic homage.  Without even bringing squats and space dwarves into the story he'd make a great stand in with older figures or a fine high gravity human in any entourage. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 18, 2017, 09:24:33 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on May 18, 2017, 12:45:55 AM
I already saw a guy on Instagram make the new dwarves (whatever they're called) more "realistic" by lengthening the legs  ??? Tbf it looked pretty decent painted up but why bother lol.

Yeah, they had a bit of a twitter spat with the GW studio manager (or some such position) about that. Someone else on Instagram described it, in all seriousness, as a 'true scale' dwarf. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 18, 2017, 10:53:05 AM
Quote from: horridperson on May 18, 2017, 09:08:15 AM
@Andrew May

Is the image you posted the dwarf body?  Looks awesome with that marauder head.  I think it would fit in very well with the old RT figures from the late 80s as, "normal" but that'[s scale creep for you.  Apart from the somewhat blocky build the rough looking void suit and mohawk really sell it as a classic homage.  Without even bringing squats and space dwarves into the story he'd make a great stand in with older figures or a fine high gravity human in any entourage. 

If you google "between the bolter and me" you'll find it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 18, 2017, 10:55:07 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on May 18, 2017, 09:24:33 AM
Yeah, they had a bit of a twitter spat with the GW studio manager (or some such position) about that. Someone else on Instagram described it, in all seriousness, as a 'true scale' dwarf. lol


"Worlds tallest dwarf"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 18, 2017, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on May 18, 2017, 09:24:33 AM
Yeah, they had a bit of a twitter spat with the GW studio manager (or some such position) about that. Someone else on Instagram described it, in all seriousness, as a 'true scale' dwarf. lol
So were they taking the piss or do they think "truescale" just means bigger, or fitting 32mm or something like that?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 18, 2017, 11:56:48 AM
Quote from: beefcake on May 18, 2017, 11:39:25 AM
So were they taking the piss or do they think "truescale" just means bigger, or fitting 32mm or something like that?

Ah wait, I'm mixing things up. The 'true scale' dwarf comment was a joke I think. I'm mixing it up with an entirely serious comment left on their blog about using 1/35 tanks for making 'true scale' Leman Russes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on May 18, 2017, 12:07:21 PM
Quote from: beefcake on May 18, 2017, 11:39:25 AM
So were they taking the piss or do they think "truescale" just means bigger, or fitting 32mm or something like that?

Surely 'truescale' would make the buggers eight foot tall and not 32/36/whatever mm.....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 18, 2017, 12:12:48 PM
Oh, they're slowly getting there, one millimeter at a time.

Before the year 30,000 AD, those guys will be 8ft tall!  :D


+++EDIT+++ Dang! I just did the math, and it sort of works out too!

Let's say (for simplicity's sake) that 30 years ago, space marines were 25mm, and now they're 28mm. That's roughly 1mm per decade, yes? So for them to 'grow' from 25mm to 8 ft (2.64m), it will take 26,150 years.

According to the old fluff, the Emperor was born/created approximately 12,500 BC. So if 40K's calendar starts with his birth, then we're looking at 38,650 AI (Anno Imperator). And taking some rounding errors into account, we're very near 40K's 'current' time.

And if, for some reason, we're to take the 40K calendar as a continuation of ours, then it'll be 28,167 AD, which is very close to the time that the Emperor started on his secret Primarch project.

I'll go geek out further on my own now... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 18, 2017, 12:16:17 PM
Quote from: Mason on May 18, 2017, 12:07:21 PM
Surely 'truescale' would make the buggers eight foot tall and not 32/36/whatever mm.....


8ft dwarfs. Crap I'd hate to see giants then.
Sorry, truescale giants ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 18, 2017, 12:41:32 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on May 18, 2017, 12:12:48 PM
And if, for some reason, we're to take the 40K calendar as a continuation of ours, then it'll be 28,167 AD, which is very close to the time that the Emperor started on his secret Primarch project.

You might be on to something.

Edit:
Sorry that should read "you might be on something".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 18, 2017, 02:10:41 PM
So... I guess the term "Sigmarines" now applies to both AoS and WH40k.  :)

On the brighter side, larger (plastic) Space Marines (if the AoS Stormcast are anything to go by) means that they will be far easier to paint up and GW can go wild with intricately excruciating detail.

BTW, the Stormcast are pretty much 40mm in height. Do you think the new Space dudlies will be the same?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on May 18, 2017, 02:20:01 PM
Quote
+++EDIT+++ Dang! I just did the math, and it sort of works out too!

Slow day at work, huh  :D

The fluff doesn't have me convinced. I'm not getting hyped on the super-super soldier aspect.

I like the design of the armour well enough. They're nice models.

If they'll ever appear in my army remains to be seen, though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 18, 2017, 02:24:25 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on May 18, 2017, 02:20:01 PM
Slow day at work, huh  :D

Still basking in last night's victory... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on May 18, 2017, 02:40:08 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on May 18, 2017, 12:12:48 PM
I'll go geek out further on my own now... lol

Sorry if I damaged you, mate.
 ;D ;)



Quote from: Andrew Rae on May 18, 2017, 12:41:32 PM
You might be on to something.

Edit:
Sorry that should read "you might be on something".

 lol lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 18, 2017, 05:34:25 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 17, 2017, 08:47:57 PM
Or perhaps it was rolled out during the cursed founding and as such is considered bad luck? :)
It would go well with my Legio Fausta marines then*  :D

*Hint: they got their legion name because I roll 1s.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on May 18, 2017, 05:53:16 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on May 18, 2017, 12:12:48 PM
Oh, they're slowly getting there, one millimeter at a time.

Trouble is, they'll spend the best part of 10,000 years as the galaxy's premier fighting force of womble-headed midgets.

I always wanted to see a beakie marine with his helmet off... and he actually was a womble under the armour  :D

Quote
I'll go geek out further on my own now... lol

Best that I do the same... ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 18, 2017, 09:12:05 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on May 18, 2017, 02:10:41 PM

BTW, the Stormcast are pretty much 40mm in height. Do you think the new Space dudlies will be the same?

I hope they Primaris aren't too massive as I'm kit bashing massive bloody thunder warriors out of stormcasts ATM.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 23, 2017, 10:59:55 AM
Launch date for new 40K preorder 3rd June - Nurgle vs Ultramarines:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-launch-date-announced-may22gw-homepage-post-1/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-launch-date-announced-may22gw-homepage-post-1/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 23, 2017, 12:41:05 PM
Well, I must say, I remain cautiously optimistic. All codices in 5 fixed books? That's great news as far as I'm concerned. Now of course, with this major overhaul (like from 2nd to 3rd ed), they cannot release the codices piecemeal; they have to release them all in one go.

Now, I'm sure there'll be supplements; there always are. But they're definitely going the Infinity or Warmachine route; all playable factions in one (ok; 5... ::) ) book(s).

The boxed set looks like decent value again too, with the full hardcover book inside. I might consider getting one, if the rules are right.

Also; Lieutenants appear to have made a comeback, complete with elaborate helmet stripe! 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on May 23, 2017, 12:47:57 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on May 23, 2017, 12:41:05 PM
Well, I must say, I remain cautiously optimistic. All codices in 5 fixed books? That's great news as far as I'm concerned. Now of course, with this major overhaul (like from 2nd to 3rd ed), they cannot release the codices piecemeal; they have to release them all in one go.

Now, I'm sure there'll be supplements; there always are. But they're definitely going the Infinity or Warmachine route; all playable factions in one (ok; 5... ::) ) book(s).

The boxed set looks like decent value again too, with the full hardcover book inside. I might consider getting one, if the rules are right.

Also; Lieutenants appear to have made a comeback, complete with elaborate helmet stripe! 8)

Has anyone noticed what they say on the end of the page? About the Index Books? They are temporary  :'(

Quote
...Oh, and don’t worry, this doesn’t mean Orks and Tyranids are now on the same side, it just means they share a book for the moment. In the future, they’ll get their own dedicated codexes.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 23, 2017, 12:53:45 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on May 23, 2017, 12:47:57 PM
Has anyone noticed what they say on the end of the page? About the Index Books? They are temporary  :'(

I think it's the same idea as the Grand Alliance books in AoS, which over time are superseded by Battletomes for individual factions, and now add in extra rules for single faction armies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 23, 2017, 01:17:26 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on May 23, 2017, 12:47:57 PM
Has anyone noticed what they say on the end of the page? About the Index Books? They are temporary  :'(

Well, I obviously didn't...  ::)

That's too bad, but understandable from a commercial point of view of course...

Then again, still quite similar to the Warmachine model, where you get the rulebook with all faction in it. But later dedicated tomes for all factions detail more specific units etc...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 23, 2017, 01:59:36 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on May 23, 2017, 01:17:26 PM
Then again, still quite similar to the Warmachine model, where you get the rulebook with all faction in it. But later dedicated tomes for all factions detail more specific units etc...

Hmm, not exactly. The WM model only really produces the faction books because they acknowledge that (1) there is just no way all the units and fluff can go into one book, and (2) it's better for factions to have a book each as most players can then pick up the books that interest them the most.

In (1), it's worth noting that apart from PRIME, the books always move the story on, so there's never really anywhere appropriate to put all the unit collections anyway. In (2), it's worth noting that the rules come with the models anyway, and/or via faction decks that contain all the faction's cards up to that release point, so they are really quite optional.

What GW are doing is different though; although I expect there will be "story tomes" in the MW sense (i.e., moving the story on), I wouldn't expect all factions to get a look-in to every book like they do in WM. That's why aside from the initial launch books/collections, I would expect GW to revert back to a Codex-style format. If AoS is anything to go by, the various Codexes will be periodically updated throughout the life of the edition too, adding in new formations, rules updates, and any new models released since the last Codex.

Now, if GW continue to give away the unit rules for free on their website as they did with AoS, then this model is actually not bad at all. However, if they decide to force book purchases by putting a lot of the rules and unit options exclusively behind multi-book paywalls... Well, then I forsee a lot of piracy when it comes to the faction Codexes.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 23, 2017, 02:22:06 PM
I'm a bit dubious about the way the books will play out (i.e. the first armies to get "real" codices always tend to benefit from power creep, etc.), but this is the only way to do a brand new edition, with every army essentially getting a small temporary codex.  Ideally I'd have liked to have seen these online for free...but money is there to be made I guess.  It's akin to 3rd edition when they launched the game with very thin (and crappy) codices for all the forces at the same time.

Starter set looks interesting though I question putting the big 280-page hardbound book in there.  While the "core rules" will be free online it looks like there is a large section of advanced rules, scenarios, etc. which won't be available - meaning you'll have to lug around a big hardbound book which is a little silly.  I'm hoping for a surplus of rulebooks on eBay from people getting multiple starter boxes for the models.

I hate the death guard models which is a shame...but also saves me some time.  I don't have to wait on them.  Really, comically, absurdly over-styled...an affront to the senses, lol.

I was telling Audrey I see a very AoS approach to the marines too - with the squads all being armed with identical weapons.  I wonder if the NuMarines will remove the idea of mixed weapon squads.  That's obviously much easier for rules/etc., but is taking a large part of the marine fluff and flushing it down the toilet.  Admittedly it future-proofs models and units and it's something that fits/works with the Eldar army...making army building way easier.  I will be sad though, if the actual Tactical Squad disappears as the NuMarines take over.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 23, 2017, 02:41:23 PM
Oh go ahead; blame it on the new guy! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on May 23, 2017, 02:45:45 PM
The more I see the images of the Primaris, the more I fell in love. The Inceptors and the Captain in Gravis armour are my favourites. And the bolt rifle with the drum magazine is also great.  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 23, 2017, 02:56:59 PM
I kind of like the airborne poses of the jumppackers; long overdue, that...

And the armor seems to be amalgated from those elements most liked; Mk4 helmet, Mk8 ankles, abdominal plates and collar, Mk7 chestplate and greaves, Terminator hipplates...



+++EDIT+++ As an aside; I've had a project lying around for almost a decade that has now been overtaken by no fewer than two new GW releases within the space of a couple of months; a combat squad of Tru-Scale™ Imperial Fists Marines for use in Necromunda (as a GM force, using the movie marines rules from Citadel Journal)

First there's Shadow War, basically putting Space Marine stats into the Necromunda game system, and then these Primaris Marines come along, pre-empting any need for cutting up and merging all those Terminator and Power Armor parts I had gathered...

I guess that'll teach me to follow through with projects instead of letting them flaunder in conversion hell for decades... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pictors Studio on May 23, 2017, 03:26:12 PM
I'm with you.  I think the new marines are great and I will be making an army out of them too.  I'm not sold on starting a new army for Chaos, I have three Chaos armies now and stuff for a Thousand Sons army that is unpainted too.  I guess getting Death Guard would get me the complete set (Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh and undivided) but it is another army to store somewhere.

Still they are fantastic models.

It looks like it will be 95 quid retail and the army books are going to be about 12 pounds each.

This is the first 40K starter set I've been excited about since 1998. 

To be fair I was very excited about both Betrayal At Calth and Burning of Prospero but they weren't 40K starter sets.

Now I just have to decide which marine chapter to do.  Probably going to go with Ultramarines. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 23, 2017, 05:24:14 PM
NuMarines seem to be equipped in the style of the HH Marines, which is actually fine as far as I'm concerned.

The Deathguard are fine, and can always be "cut" with plain Mk3 armour to get some nice Nurgle elements whilst toning down the more extreme design elements.

Likewise, the Nurgle cultists would actually make a great Necromunda Scavvies or GorkaMorka Muties with modest effort.

I am also fine with having a hardback book in the box - it could after all still be a smaller sized book and not a giant door stop. If this is the case, I would be especially happy! :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on May 23, 2017, 05:40:10 PM
I, too, was thinking about turning those cultist into a a scavy gang, but I hardly see a need for the rest of the nurgle.
I've never liked nurgle..

Still looks like a nifty box, but if I need to buy new books for all my armies, getting back into the game is still going to be pretty expensive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on May 23, 2017, 06:11:28 PM
wow. this thread is SUPER well hidden...no wonder I had no idea we had a GW thread haha
I started a whole thread since I had no idea of this so I'll just copy what I said there :p

well the new starter has been announced.
well we have the usual babyish "OH NO THE END HAS COME" rubbish and the old "THEY ARE REPLACING MARINES. GW WANTS YOUR MONEY" (as opposed to every company on earth who don't want your money...).
but after 11yrs of not touching GW...I have to say I am LOVING this set and will certainly save up for it as much as I can do.
it'll likely be a hefty price like the horus heresy sets with those models in.
But I think they are gorgeous. even the assault marines that everyone hates.

there we go. so yeah.
well done GW. you just made me wanna play 40k again
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diablo Jon on May 23, 2017, 06:13:24 PM
Guess I'm in the minority then. I'm really not digging the new uber marines the whole concept is just crap IMO. The Nurgle stuff I'm loving though which is good, if I'm the only one,because there should be loads going cheap on ebay (I hope) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Modhail on May 23, 2017, 06:25:03 PM
I like the Nurgle stuff, and the return of a Lieutenant to the Marines' ranks. Really not fond of the Ubermarines Jump troops and Captain in "Gravy" armour, though.... I really dislike the hoods and jumppacks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Keith on May 23, 2017, 07:04:49 PM
Seriously think this is great. Some of the figures hit higher notes for me than others, but altogether there's nothing to criticise from my side. Ill be in on this sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on May 23, 2017, 10:20:11 PM
The silly-name-creep has taken hold of 40k.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 23, 2017, 10:20:28 PM
(http://steppingbetweengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Screenshot_2017-05-23-20-26-53-1.png)

 :o Oh boy. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus?

Photo nabbed from here (http://steppingbetweengames.com/new-8th-edition-40k-models-size-comparison/).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 23, 2017, 10:51:42 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on May 23, 2017, 10:20:28 PM
(http://steppingbetweengames.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Screenshot_2017-05-23-20-26-53-1.png)

 :o Oh boy. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus?

Photo nabbed from here (http://steppingbetweengames.com/new-8th-edition-40k-models-size-comparison/).

WEll now i want them even more! they are the right bloody size!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 23, 2017, 10:59:22 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 23, 2017, 10:51:42 PM
WEll now i want them even more! they are the right bloody size!

I dunno. I mean, I like them in that size compared to human figures so they'll look great in Inq28 warbands. But I kinda feel bad for Chaos Marines. It doesn't seem right that they're all smaller than these new guys - ignoring background reasons. Baddies should be the big, bad, scary guys. Just like Stormcast make Chaos Warriors - even the new Blood Warriors - look a bit weedy, so do these guys make the Plague Marines less intimidating. At least the Plague Marines have a couple of mm on the Mk4 guy.

Still really like them, but I just wish they (and Stormcast) were a bit smaller, and the Plague Marines (and Chaos Warriors) were a bit bigger.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 23, 2017, 11:44:50 PM
Yep... the transition to Sigmarines is now complete!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Redmao on May 24, 2017, 01:25:22 AM
I really like the new size. Now I'll be able to pit some Space marines against my Imperial Assault Storm troopers  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on May 24, 2017, 01:37:29 AM
Here's the price list for the UK (according to Warseer):

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/18581969_10213764956064833_2101727443338120319_n_zpsu3lero4k.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on May 24, 2017, 07:53:32 AM
So.....

How free are these rules going to be now?

I mean I'm not complainling that they're going to sell hard-copies. I might even be looking into them over time.
But I'm not really feeling like having to buy a rulebook (because that contains all of th rules) and then 4 index books (I have four armies: Blood angels, Imperial guard, Craftworld Eldar en Orks. None of those share an index book).

That would be 95 pounds, just for the books....

How much of those indexes are going to be onine? Did I miss something?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: cyagen on May 24, 2017, 08:11:50 AM
I like the fact that the SM are now "true scales".

However, my guess is that they are not going to replace all SM with them. I'm willing to bet that they are only going to be available to chapters on the right side of the rift.

But their stats are so good that people are going to buy them anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 24, 2017, 08:27:17 AM
I'm pretty sure that "eventually" these will replace the entire space marine range. I totally see why they're doing it but I'm not sure if I like it personally. The Primaris look pretty good all in all, more "action/sci fi" with the odd gothic touch but I can't see them mixing well with old armies. It's a bit incongruous to be having marines that are taller than terminators, and if they're getting their own tanks etc then I think the change over is inevitable.

As for the chaos models, I'm not hugely enamoured with their presentation in the promo shots but I look forward to seeing what customers do with them, the converters will have a field day!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 24, 2017, 08:44:08 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on May 24, 2017, 08:27:17 AM
... the converters will have a field day!

I'm not sure about that; they're not multipart like standard Space Marines I think, but rather one, two or three part sculpts that are a right pain to convert well.

At least, if the Dark Vengeance Chaos Space Marines and cultists were anything to go by. I have those, and they look great, but conversion work on them is very involved indeed and requires at least a moderate level of skill...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on May 24, 2017, 08:55:03 AM
I read somewhere, cant remember where, that they are ALL multipart plastics, like the 30K box sets....?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 24, 2017, 09:06:55 AM
Quote from: Col. Aubrey Bagshot on May 24, 2017, 08:55:03 AM
I read somewhere, cant remember where, that they are ALL multipart plastics, like the 30K box sets....?


Whilst the basic Deathguard and NuMarines may be "full" multipart kits, I'd imagine that the characters are fixed-pose on mini-sprues, and that the Blight Drone and Cultists are either snap-fit or low part-count like the HH Contemptor.

Doing this is actually a great way for GW to recover the initial costs of all those new kits, as even with a subsidised Starter Box price, they will sell vast numbers of the kits easily. They did this back in 3E to launch the new SM and DE kits as well, and the 3E plastic Marines therefore became the default Marine model for almost everyone overnight.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 24, 2017, 09:24:17 AM
The classic how-do-10-space-marines-fit-in-a-Rhino research question just got a tiny bit more complicated. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 24, 2017, 09:38:44 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on May 24, 2017, 09:24:17 AM
The classic how-do-10-space-marines-fit-in-a-Rhino research question just got a tiny bit more complicated. :D

 lol

Horizontal stacking might be inevitable now!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 24, 2017, 10:42:55 AM
...Or we might finally see a suitably-scaled NuRhino?  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 24, 2017, 10:45:53 AM
Well, considering the size difference between the original Rhino and the current one, there certainly is precedent...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 24, 2017, 10:56:58 AM
I thought they'd already said that new tanks are planned. I'm sure that nu-marines won't fit in a rhino, you'll need to buy the brand new super rhino to transport them.  o_o

I'm still sure the hardcore converters will go nuts, the Iron Sleet mob et al are surely champing at the bit!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 24, 2017, 01:22:47 PM
They're definitely setting up to replace the Space Marine line over the next 5-10 years.  All of their vehicles are old enough to warrant replacement, and they've stated on their page that current Space Marines would be eligible for the Primaris update.  I'm pretty confident this will mean that all new Space Marine models and characters will likely be of the Primaris version, until the old ones simply fade away.

I think new characters or re-done characters for the Space Marines will suddenly all have opted for the Primaris conversion, etc.

We shall see.  Personally I think aesthetically they look fine, but scale-wise they look poor.  We've had some lopsided scaling issues before but the appearance will now be that people are playing at two totally different scales.  It just looks silly on the table top.

The scale apparently has gone way up with the plague marines too - all the more reason not to get them.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ggo5GegWfXE/WSUvfrdFgTI/AAAAAAABPw4/Jtb93Gw_2DgEDsjdTUKNotQxmvZbOHJlACLcB/s1600/IMG_20170524_123035.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 24, 2017, 01:31:19 PM
Quote from: Elbows on May 24, 2017, 01:22:47 PM

The scale apparently has gone way up with the plague marines too - all the more reason not to get them.


That makes no sense fro ma story sense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on May 24, 2017, 01:37:46 PM
Quote from: YPU on May 24, 2017, 01:31:19 PM
That makes no sense fro ma story sense.

They said something about Nurgle being the first of the Chaos Gods to take notice of the Primaris Marines and act accordingly, giving more power (aka making them bigger) to the Death Guard. And the new novel from the Black Library will talk about that first confrontation (setting up the starter box).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 24, 2017, 01:41:45 PM
Quote from: Elbows on May 24, 2017, 01:22:47 PM
The scale apparently has gone way up with the plague marines too - all the more reason not to get them.

I'm the opposite. That guy looks bigger than the plague marine in the other comparison photo so is suitably imposing. I've been needing a big nurgle guy for a warband I've been planning and the current size of marine just didn't cut it.

Quote from: YPU on May 24, 2017, 01:31:19 PM
That makes no sense fro ma story sense.

C'mon. 10,000 years in the warp must give you a few inches as well as horns and belly tentacles. ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 24, 2017, 01:45:23 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on May 24, 2017, 01:41:45 PM
C'mon. 10,000 years in the warp must give you a few inches as well as horns and belly tentacles. ;D

Well, predatorpt has the explanation above. But I like your idea better. If right around the rollout of the primaris marines a new breed of Nurgle chaosmarine with very similar characteristics would emerge that creates a very nice dark symmetry and well as an interesting mystery as to how that happened.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on May 24, 2017, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: YPU on May 24, 2017, 01:45:23 PM
Well, predatorpt has the explanation above. But I like your idea better. If right around the rollout of the primaris marines a new breed of Nurgle chaosmarine with very similar characteristics would emerge that creates a very nice dark symmetry and well as an interesting mystery as to how that happened.

Well. Ol' Papa Nurgle was stretching out having a relax in the back garden when he looks over the fence and sees Mr-Girlyman-Jones next door has some new bigger Maureens to dot around his fishpond and says to himself: 'I am gonna have to get me some of them!'.

 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 24, 2017, 02:15:41 PM
I thought the fluff always stated that plague marines are hulking great beasts, bigger than any loyal marine in height and mass?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on May 24, 2017, 02:44:46 PM
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h54/JamesValentine/scale_zpskwm8zpxy.png) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/JamesValentine/media/scale_zpskwm8zpxy.png.html)

1: not everything is perfectly lined up so that needs to be addressed before anything can be said.
2: Nurgle marines being bigger kinda makes sense to me and always should of been I feel.
3: we do not yet have the full picture concerning fluff. so people saying "it makes no sense"...are making no sense
4: this is STILL not evidence of replacing marines. I want a clad iron quote from GW via video.

until then its just more DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 24, 2017, 03:42:25 PM
Quote from: Elbows on May 24, 2017, 01:22:47 PM
They're definitely setting up to replace the Space Marine line over the next 5-10 years.

And almost certainly all the others too... kinda like warhammer.

Quote from: Andrew Rae on May 24, 2017, 01:41:45 PM
10,000 years in the warp

I guess, based on how folks reacted to destroying the warhammer world and starting all over again, that probably wasn't a good idea.

Nevertheless... the same result.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on May 24, 2017, 03:57:15 PM
no...it was a brilliant idea. fantasy was dull. at least now its more like a proper game
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 24, 2017, 08:37:49 PM
I wonder if they'll fuck it all up and upscale everything else too! One of my frustrations with AoS is that the Khorne marauder guys are huge, much taller than 40k humans in fact much taller than "old marines".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 24, 2017, 08:58:04 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to sell magnifying glasses so everyone could keep the same models but they all look bigger? Or just get people to stand closer? I'll bet the legal gurus at GW could find a way to trademark 'standing closer to a table'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 24, 2017, 09:17:43 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on May 24, 2017, 08:37:49 PM
I wonder if they'll fuck it all up and upscale everything else too! One of my frustrations with AoS is that the Khorne marauder guys are huge, much taller than 40k humans in fact much taller than "old marines".

At least they didn't upscale the forthcoming Shadespire skellies, which suggests not everything in AoS is going supersized. The handwavium about Tzeentch cultists being clerks and merchants who magically beef up when the revolt comes still makes me smile though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 25, 2017, 12:33:28 AM
Seems GW have commissioned Devil Pig games to make a 40k skinned version of heroes of Normandy.

Whilst i haven't played it, I have been told that the original is excellent.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dezmond on May 25, 2017, 10:11:25 AM
Oh wow. 'True Scale' (or at least Really Tall) space marines.

I guess it's about time to go through another 40k phase.

(http://buyorsellahomeinlosangeles.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/tony-MO-van-zandt.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 25, 2017, 11:04:06 AM
Quote from: nic-e on May 25, 2017, 12:33:28 AM
Seems GW have commissioned Devil Pig games to make a 40k skinned version of heroes of Normandy.

Whilst i haven't played it, I have been told that the original is excellent.

Yes, I'm curious about that as well, might be a fun way to dip the toes into 40k without having to resign to their normal rule systems.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 25, 2017, 11:08:56 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on May 24, 2017, 08:37:49 PM
I wonder if they'll fuck it all up and upscale everything else too! One of my frustrations with AoS is that the Khorne marauder guys are huge, much taller than 40k humans in fact much taller than "old marines".

The elves from the Spire of Dawn set (originally the Island of Blood set) are the same size as the AoS Khorne Blood Reavers and they pre-date AoS by 5 years I think. And everything is bigger than 'old' marines  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on May 25, 2017, 11:55:49 AM
I'm not sold. My biggest army for 40k is a Nurgle marine army. It took a lot of conversion work to get right and I don't think these will mix well. Might try and get hold of a blight drone though.

Plus I'm not a fan of these models with the built in effects e.g. The billowing smoke et cetera. It makes computer aided sculpting really obvious IMO.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on May 25, 2017, 01:05:09 PM
I'm not sold on the new Uber-Marines but I do really like the Death Guard :D.

When I played 40k many moons ago I was never a Nurgle fan but I'm tempted to get a few sprues of these when the re-sellers start splitting boxes on Ebay.

Though I was a Slannesh fan so I wonder if Noise Marines will get the plastic treatment at sometime.. then I'll be drawn back in for good hehe  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 25, 2017, 08:59:11 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on May 25, 2017, 11:55:49 AM


Plus I'm not a fan of these models with the built in effects e.g. The billowing smoke et cetera. It makes computer aided sculpting really obvious IMO.
Agreed.
Having a bunch of them with identical smoke looks really wrong for something that should be highly random. Mini poses, not too bad if you have a few duplicates but smoke etc...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 26, 2017, 12:51:40 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on May 25, 2017, 11:08:56 AM
The elves from the Spire of Dawn set (originally the Island of Blood set) are the same size as the AoS Khorne Blood Reavers and they pre-date AoS by 5 years I think. And everything is bigger than 'old' marines  ;)

Interesting, that long ago I was pretty much out of the miniature hobby, maybe just getting back into it via Frothers and alternate mini producers. When I looked at a lot of GW minis I was pretty nonplussed back then and certainly didn't buy any to compare. In fact I've only just st started buying again (a little) seeing as GW are really excelling these days.

Oh btw, I mean the old marines as in the current incarnation before Primaris turned up. The Khorne mateys are a head taller!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on May 28, 2017, 01:27:22 AM
The new dreadnought looks great (albeit with some Tau inspired bits  lol)

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/18698315_1550033735016126_941660159313869770_n_zpspzlnynrn.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on May 28, 2017, 02:43:20 AM
Would you say that its greater size makes it...good?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 28, 2017, 04:23:23 AM
Definitely looks more mobile. Are those anti infantry things facing downwards.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on May 28, 2017, 05:38:16 AM
Quote from: beefcake on May 28, 2017, 04:23:23 AM
Definitely looks more mobile. Are those anti infantry things facing downwards.

On the right-arm weapon system? I rather suspect these to be power cell thingies for what is probably a melter or plasma cannon.

That dread is looking quite nice and animated in a good way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 28, 2017, 09:00:42 AM
That dread looks a little like the original dreadnought. The knees and hip going inti the body have a similar figure 8 style. I wonder if you can remove some bulk from the body to bring it even closer?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 28, 2017, 11:31:39 AM
I will echo the sentiment, that is one nice looking mech! It has potential as a generic 28mm mech I'd say.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on May 28, 2017, 04:59:58 PM
And someone else noticed the similarity:

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/18700766_10156129395541124_4706497286505296787_o_zpspv2ksyhp.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 28, 2017, 06:10:25 PM
I was planning on making truescale marines using Sigmarites when I got round to a 40k skirmish proiject. I guess this makes things easier?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on May 28, 2017, 06:23:40 PM
Well what can I say shadow wars armageddon is the first GW rulesbook that I have brought since 4th edition 40k (which I hated) and it seems rather good too,

GW surprising me at the moment in a good way lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 28, 2017, 11:43:23 PM
https://instagram.com/p/BUpf6tLlNKW/

The size of that new dread! ££££?

Edit: I can't help but feel like this stuff is sort of shitting on players "old" collections a bit. I don't know though, give it 6 months and I'll change my mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 28, 2017, 11:49:03 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on May 28, 2017, 11:43:23 PM
https://instagram.com/p/BUpf6tLlNKW/

The size of that new dread! ££££?

Edit: I can't help but feel like this stuff is sort of shitting on players "old" collections a bit. I don't know though, give it 6 months and I'll change my mind.

PEAS AND RICE ! It's huge!!!

I like it, I really like it. I like the primaris marines.I want to run an army of them so i can playu space marines as they should be, hulking great elites with a tiny army and alot of hitting power.

But i also agree, If i were a marine player already I'd feel like my army was about to be eclipsed for a very long time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 29, 2017, 08:57:00 AM
Quote from: Scurv on May 29, 2017, 03:20:20 AM
It is gundam kit sized. Cheaper and better looking mecha is now a solid choice for the sigmarine player.

It's time Bandai do a wargame. If they sacrificed Gundam level possibility for mere GW levels they could make an undeniably impressive range of wargaming mech's for jaw-dropping prices.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 29, 2017, 09:26:59 AM
They did make some small versions a while back which were QUITE nice. I have a couple around here... somewhere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on May 29, 2017, 11:58:19 AM
Ah, scale creep. The best "resetting the market" thingy GW can do. Makes tons of miniatures and 2nd-hand armies obsolete overnight ( at least to the die-hard fanboys ) so yes, good thinking of them.
They terminated Warhammer Fantasy, now they terminate the classic 40K and will set the competition back a couple of years, again.
I'll keep my eyes open for cheap, discarded classic metal 40K figs from now on  :D.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 29, 2017, 12:08:38 PM
GW plan things 3 years ahead of time, so this has been in the works a while.
If you ask me they put in place the insurance policy for current gen marine players a while back with the switch to 32mm bases.
As bases are what's measured from in 40k, Having standard marines bump up to 32mm means they will match the base sizes of the normal tactical primaris, So anyone who wants to proxy their current marines as primaris and their primaris as tacticals can do without major issue.

I thought this when they rebased them, they it was going to be as prep for true scaling, And i thought the same when the deathwatch marines were scaled to be larger than their normal brothers.

It's going to have zero impact in game terms if people are mixing their armies, and whilst I'm not huge on the fluff , It doesnt undo any of the previously held canon of the 40k universe.
If GW really are planning on replacing all marines with primaris then The next edition should read something like this
" By M42 all Astartes had taken the pilgrimage to the primaris forge, Either out of desperate need or their own desire, and undergone the enhancement surgery at the hands of the mechanics surgeons of the imperium secondus. Those few hold outs that refuse to shirk from the original designs of the emperor now serve with the inquisition or the echlisiarchy, Revered as living relics of the emperors great crusade. "
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 29, 2017, 12:29:22 PM
So no news yet when the numarines are going to drop?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 29, 2017, 01:04:41 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on May 29, 2017, 12:29:22 PM
So no news yet when the numarines are going to drop?

Primaris in the new edition box, pre order this weekend, Release the week after.
I imagine the primaris proper release will be the weekend after or go up for pre order on new edition release weekend.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on May 29, 2017, 01:38:06 PM
I like em. Proper scale. Shame if people feel alienated by their old toys being weenies in comparison but things have to move forward.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on May 29, 2017, 03:05:11 PM
Will be interesting to see what happens to the Imperial Guard or whatever they are called these days. I think that it's a good thing that a marine is actually going to be larger than a basic human. It reminds me of all the old ork fluff describing them as being much larger and more ferocious than humans yet they used to have skinny little arms devoid of musculature.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on May 29, 2017, 04:58:37 PM
And it's official, there's a new founding, with new chapters (Fulminators is now a Chapter name...for real):

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/29/new-warhammer-40000-the-ultima-founding-may29gw-homepage-post-4/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 29, 2017, 05:54:39 PM
They'll purge the enemies of Mankind by raging at them and calling them names.

But rest assured they'll use suitably big(ger) words of course.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on May 29, 2017, 07:15:42 PM
The primaris marines will look a bit odd mixed with the others I think...

Also;

"the Adeptus Astartes are stretched thinner than ever"

Tabletop says otherwise no doubt  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 29, 2017, 08:51:32 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on May 29, 2017, 07:15:42 PM
The primaris marines will look a bit odd mixed with the others I think...

Also;

"the Adeptus Astartes are stretched thinner than ever"

Tabletop says otherwise no doubt  lol

Hasn't that always been the case ? The eldar are the last handful of a dying race, each life worth the life of a planetful of lesser beings, But they seem to throw their lives away on the tabletop in what are, scalewise, minor skirmishes.
There are meant to be less than a million marines in total and yet I'm sure in the year and a half I've worked in a FLGS I've probably sold that many personally.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 30, 2017, 09:49:19 AM
Has this been brought up yet?

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/IMG_6893.png)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 30, 2017, 11:55:52 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on May 30, 2017, 09:49:19 AM
Has this been brought up yet?


Don't think it has yet.


For clarity, this should be 2 version of the game, with no intended link between them. (as far as we know for now) they are doing a AoS one, but get that many prefer old world and they are doing that straight as its own thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 30, 2017, 01:31:05 PM
I'm interested to see what they do with the AoS side of things largely for background material. The Old World version is a lot less appealing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on May 30, 2017, 01:48:19 PM
I like that there's an option. AoS doesn't appeal as much to me, but I'd give it a crack if given the option.

On the subject of things that probably haven't been brought up yet, here's this: http://tinyurl.com/y9wcmr7z
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 30, 2017, 01:50:33 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on May 30, 2017, 01:48:19 PM
I like that there's an option. AoS doesn't appeal as much to me, but I'd give it a crack if given the option.

On the subject of things that probably haven't been brought up yet, here's this: http://tinyurl.com/y9wcmr7z

Is that the old old kit with the tiny driver?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on May 30, 2017, 01:59:28 PM
Yeah. They repacked old models - from Assault on Black Reach for instance - with stickers instead of decals and sell them at toy stores instead of model shops. But at insane prices, at least here in Portugal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on May 30, 2017, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: YPU on May 30, 2017, 01:50:33 PM
Is that the old old kit with the tiny driver?

Depends on what you think is old  ;) this looks to be the Trukk from the Gorka Morka game, so mid to late 90's and the driver was in line with the orks from that era, but tiny compared to anything nowadays
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on May 30, 2017, 02:26:32 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on May 30, 2017, 01:48:19 PM
On the subject of things that probably haven't been brought up yet, here's this: http://tinyurl.com/y9wcmr7z

Yep, "Battle for Vedros", discussed last year (link (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=57122.5280)). ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on May 30, 2017, 04:17:02 PM
Quote
Depends on what you think is old  Wink this looks to be the Trukk from the Gorka Morka game, so mid to late 90's

Sorry to brake it to you, but yes, that is considered old these days.
Not judging, I'm right there with you  ;)

Wondering if they'll be available here and if it would be worth it. Well, maybe more the marines, but still...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 30, 2017, 04:30:43 PM
Lol Gorkamorka is 20yrs old, meaning I was playing it on my mum's living room floor when I was 14. I remember being wowed and by Brian Nelson's brand new metal figures but worrying that they didn't fit with my collection of Adams/Perry Space Orks from 1st/2nd ed.

The more things change, eh?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 30, 2017, 06:17:02 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on May 30, 2017, 01:31:05 PM
I'm interested to see what they do with the AoS side of things largely for background material. The Old World version is a lot less appealing.

Invert this completely, and I agree.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 30, 2017, 06:42:32 PM
Quote from: Elbows on May 30, 2017, 06:17:02 PM
Invert this completely, and I agree.  lol

Fightin' talk!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 30, 2017, 08:15:28 PM
Don't you have some Bloodskullborne Bloodreavers w/ Skulldemonbleeder Blades of Death to be painting?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on May 30, 2017, 08:45:07 PM
I am excited that they're still acknowledging the Old World.

Interested to see how they flesh out the AoS fluff.

Good times!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on May 30, 2017, 09:54:15 PM
Quote from: Gibby on May 30, 2017, 08:45:07 PM
I am excited that they're still acknowledging the Old World.

Indeed.
Which bodes well for a possible re-release of Mordheim.......maybe.
 ::)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 30, 2017, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Elbows on May 30, 2017, 08:15:28 PM
Don't you have some Bloodskullborne Bloodreavers w/ Skulldemonbleeder Blades of Death to be painting?  ;)

I'm a Goldenstorm Lightningcast type! Although I haven't completely given up my old f*** grognard card. I bought some pre-slotta skellies at the weekend...






...for an AoS Skirmish rules warband!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on May 31, 2017, 02:57:42 AM
How are the AoS Skirmish rules? One thing that struck me when I tried AoS was how it had potential for smaller, skirmishy games.

...with a healthy amount of houseruling, of course.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 31, 2017, 03:55:06 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on May 31, 2017, 02:57:42 AM
How are the AoS Skirmish rules? One thing that struck me when I tried AoS was how it had potential for smaller, skirmishy games.

...with a healthy amount of houseruling, of course.

At a glance a very simple set of minor rules tweaks and a light campaign system for warband progression similar to the Path to Glory rules. Not that different to standard AoS I guess but it does make it a little bit easier to play small scale games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 31, 2017, 05:44:29 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on May 31, 2017, 02:57:42 AM
How are the AoS Skirmish rules? One thing that struck me when I tried AoS was how it had potential for smaller, skirmishy games.

...with a healthy amount of houseruling, of course.

Good, they're designed for narrative play so i've been habing a good giggle at all the people raging online that they can't take the changeling at the recommended campaign starting size, But if you accept that you're not there to play over powered units and actually want ti invest in your characters, It's good.

The scenarios are where it really shines, They are really look fun and give you a good base to build a flavourful campaign from. The campign is a bit barebones but it's in there and can be expanded on. The fluff is nice aswell, You're essentially fighting in tomb kings mordheim.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on May 31, 2017, 06:55:24 PM
Oddly enough the skirmish rules appear to be the only AoS publication without the actual AoS rules in them! Every other book, the battletomes, the campaign books, the General's Handbook, the 'getting started' book all feature the actual rules somewhere in them. I know they're free online but that seems an odd oversight.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 31, 2017, 07:24:58 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on May 31, 2017, 06:55:24 PM
Oddly enough the skirmish rules appear to be the only AoS publication without the actual AoS rules in them! Every other book, the battletomes, the campaign books, the General's Handbook, the 'getting started' book all feature the actual rules somewhere in them. I know they're free online but that seems an odd oversight.

Depends, maybe they will stop adding them to everything going forwards?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 01, 2017, 12:05:07 AM
What do you mean 'without the rules?' Does it just give you the fluff and expect you to have the dice-rolly part yourself?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on June 01, 2017, 12:51:46 AM
I read through the skirmish rules (the background not the rules; I still have to try and sort those out) and I see some parallels between it and the old Mordheim setting.  The skirmish set is a quick fix for small scale AoS but I'm looking at it as a test for a true Mordheim successor.  I can't see them loking back to the Old World for a revival.  If you were to take every reference to Shadeshards (or whatever they called it) and subbed in Warpstone you would have a very familiar setting for a future Mordheim-like.  I think they are set on a board game format rather than a skirmish game though.  I'd love to see it but I really want BFG too :D .  I'm happy and for the first time in a very long time there are a lot of GW models hitting my paint table.  They are bankrupting me with kindness.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 01, 2017, 12:54:48 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 01, 2017, 12:05:07 AM
What do you mean 'without the rules?' Does it just give you the fluff and expect you to have the dice-rolly part yourself?


The core AOS rules.
The book contains add on tules for skirmish play but not the 4 core pages of game rules.
Every other book up to this point has had them, Tho to be honest i think they may have decided that as this book is essentially an add on for the generals handbook there's little need for them in it.Also it keeps it cheap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on June 01, 2017, 07:46:35 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 01, 2017, 12:05:07 AM
What do you mean 'without the rules?' Does it just give you the fluff and expect you to have the dice-rolly part yourself?
Rogue trader players manage it.
I own and read that rulebook and that is just a case of roll dice and guess
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 01, 2017, 08:13:54 AM
I think that for a rulebook, it's weird to not include the core rules (all four pages of them), especially when they are required for the stuff in the Skirmish book, and when all the big army/background books do.

I'm also a bit surprised that they went with a big-format stapled-page book; a smaller book would have been easier to carry about. The stapled binding is probably what limits the page count rather severely, and I suppose that hardback would have been too expensive - plus anything perfect-bound is a bastard to keep open for reference during play.

Anyway, it looks like a pretty straightforward set of add-on rules, although I would be tempted to start with a bit more than the initial 25pts. At 25pts, you are going to have about three models, which going by previous experience of many other games, is frankly not that much fun to play with. Still, these are easy things to house-rule, eh? :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 01, 2017, 10:48:09 AM
(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/TokyoToyFairMarinesWeb.jpg)

Japanese release only, for now.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/space-marine-heroes-in-japan/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/space-marine-heroes-in-japan/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 01, 2017, 10:58:47 AM
Nice to see that even in the far future, there's a place for male voice choirs.

(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Joey-Tribbiani-Shocked-Reaction-Friends.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 01, 2017, 11:11:23 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on June 01, 2017, 10:48:09 AM


Japanese release only, for now.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/space-marine-heroes-in-japan/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/space-marine-heroes-in-japan/)

Wait, are these pre-painted blind bagged collectable models? Since that is what Japan tends to go for. Fascinating to see GW moving into that market, might not be a bad idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 01, 2017, 12:55:26 PM
No, they're coloured plastic single-sprue Gashapon style blind boxes.  Pretty clever and hugely market appropriate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 01, 2017, 07:53:14 PM
Bugger, I want them.
Now what?

EDit:the store display box looks like a rhino. God damn it, I really want to collect these now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 01, 2017, 09:38:18 PM
Start hitting up eBay or find a buddy in Japan.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on June 01, 2017, 09:46:42 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 01, 2017, 09:38:18 PM
Start hitting up eBay or find a buddy in Japan.  lol

Don't we have Laffers from Japan?  ;D I would gladly pay to have these Space Marines  o_o

The male choir heads (thanks for that image, Cubs!) make them just right for doing some Angry Marines!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 02, 2017, 01:24:50 PM
Aren't angry marines just regular marines?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on June 02, 2017, 01:34:30 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on June 02, 2017, 01:24:50 PM
Aren't angry marines just regular marines?

No... https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Angry_Marines  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on June 02, 2017, 01:52:05 PM
Anti-grav vehicles inbound! Space Marines Repulsor

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/02/let-your-soul-be-armoured-with-faith/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on June 02, 2017, 01:54:46 PM
those Japanese marines are gorgeous.
yeah it doesn't confirm the UK will get them...but no doubt we will someday.
maybe a new paint set?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on June 02, 2017, 02:05:51 PM
HOLY FRICK!

put me down for a platoons worth please
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on June 02, 2017, 02:54:18 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on June 02, 2017, 01:52:05 PM
Anti-grav vehicles inbound! Space Marines Repulsor

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/02/let-your-soul-be-armoured-with-faith/

Land Speeder and Land Raider had a drunk one night stand. Way OTT for my tastes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 02, 2017, 03:06:24 PM
Quote from: Chico on June 02, 2017, 02:54:18 PM
Land Speeder and Land Raider had a drunk one night stand. Way OTT for my tastes.


It certainly ain't no Right Guard deodorant stick with guns glued to it.  lol

Nice to see grav tanks appearing in the Imperium though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on June 02, 2017, 03:08:23 PM
Call me racist if you like, but newhammer space marines all look the same to me.

That repulsor thing is a joke. On a par with the taurox prime.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on June 02, 2017, 03:21:16 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on June 02, 2017, 03:06:24 PM
It certainly ain't no Right Guard deodorant stick with guns glued to it.  lol

Nice to see grav tanks appearing in the Imperium though.

Hehe never understood the Oldhammer crowds fasination with that thing either.

Quote from: weismonsters on June 02, 2017, 03:08:23 PM
Call me racist if you like, but newhammer space marines all look the same to me.

That repulsor thing is a joke. On a par with the taurox prime.


I love the plastic Mk.3 and Mk.4 kits but aye Mk.7 and above all look a tad boring/samey. I liked the Taurox Prime though.. once I gave it wheels :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 02, 2017, 03:33:20 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on June 02, 2017, 01:52:05 PM
Anti-grav vehicles inbound! Space Marines Repulsor

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/02/let-your-soul-be-armoured-with-faith/

Dang; dat gatling...  :-*

Looks like Assault Frag launchers over the doors, twinlinked forward firing lascannons, and turret mounted lascannon plus even more launchers.
But what the Dorn is that coaxial thing? ???

Plenty of stowage for conversions too btw.

It looks Landraider sized, but floating.

I'm still on the fence though. I mean: it definitely looks Space Mariney and has a certain odd cool factor, but antigrav? One thing it does not look like; a deodorant bottle...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 02, 2017, 03:38:56 PM
Right now, I think it's a bit crap.  However, in the hands of a sane modeler who removes the seven (yes...seven) missile launcher boxes and removes the comically over-sized rotary weapon on the turret ring, it could be cool looking.  Comically over-the-top at this point, in a bad way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 02, 2017, 03:58:05 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 02, 2017, 03:38:56 PM
...removes the comically over-sized rotary weapon on the turret ring, it could be cool looking...

I'm hoping for many to do exactly that, as I can immediately see the potential for my crawling-along-at-a-snail's-pace Space Crusade modernisation project, for which I will be needing 6 man/marine portable gatling guns...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on June 02, 2017, 04:29:31 PM
Quote from: Chico on June 02, 2017, 03:21:16 PM
Hehe never understood the Oldhammer crowds fasination with that thing either.
Heresy!  :o

Quote from: Chico on June 02, 2017, 03:21:16 PM
I liked the Taurox Prime though.. once I gave it wheels :D
I can believe it. It is really the wheely track things that do my head in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on June 02, 2017, 05:13:34 PM
And here's a photo for anyone whod didn't saw the video:

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40kArmouredSoul.jpg)

There's also a new book coming out near Christmas:

Quote
We’ve said right from the start that the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 is one that we’d work to make even better over time. This is one of the ways that will happen. Each year, you’ll have a new Chapter Approved, expanding your gaming options and making what we think is already the best Warhammer 40,000 ever, even better.

Expect the first Chapter Approved book in time for Christmas.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/02/let-your-soul-be-armoured-with-faith/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 02, 2017, 05:26:29 PM
It needs sponson mounted guns.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 02, 2017, 06:40:36 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on June 02, 2017, 05:26:29 PM
It needs sponson mounted guns.  :D

A Primaris marine will hold a normal marine with a heavy bolter by the ankles out the side door... actually, that will be my first conversion on the beast ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on June 02, 2017, 07:35:30 PM
Quote
A Primaris marine will hold a normal marine with a heavy bolter by the ankles out the side door... actually, that will be my first conversion on the beast Wink

I will be severely dissapointed if this in fact will not happen.... :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 02, 2017, 07:48:45 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on June 02, 2017, 06:40:36 PM
A Primaris marine will hold a normal marine with a heavy bolter by the ankles out the side door... actually, that will be my first conversion on the beast ;)

The Primaris marine should hold the regular marine under his arm like a gun and the heavy bolter must be held sideways for maximum cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on June 02, 2017, 08:17:35 PM
Waiting for the day someone does a conversion of an open interior with a child safety seat for a normal space marine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 02, 2017, 08:34:03 PM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on June 02, 2017, 08:17:35 PM
Waiting for the day someone does a conversion of an open interior with a child safety seat for a normal space marine.

:D

Not for Guard armies though - "the airbags popped on the Chimera and killed the entire squad..."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 02, 2017, 09:33:27 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on June 02, 2017, 03:58:05 PM
I'm hoping for many to do exactly that, as I can immediately see the potential for my crawling-along-at-a-snail's-pace Space Crusade modernisation project, for which I will be needing 6 man/marine portable gatling guns...  :D

Sounds like we have similar plans ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 02, 2017, 10:02:35 PM
I think it's bloody gorgeous, but I'm also sad that the land raider, the tank I saved up for four weeks and which
Was the death sentence fir anything in its way when I started, so now be the lesser of the marine tanks. Now if they release a primaris land raider then I'll be fine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on June 03, 2017, 01:12:35 AM
They certainly seem to be doing alright business wise https://investor.games-workshop.com/2017/06/02/trading-update-on-close-of-financial-year-ended-28-may-2017/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on June 03, 2017, 09:58:15 AM
I actually quite like it, the ace marines should have better tech than the guard, so grab tanks seem pretty apt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on June 03, 2017, 11:24:38 AM
In cruel jest the Primaris marines put all the coolest wargear in stowage bins high on the sides of the AFV where their little brethren just couldn't reach :D .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on June 03, 2017, 12:07:11 PM
"You must be at least THIS tall to go on this ride."

I actually quite like it, apart from those missile pods and the twin guns on the front. The placement of those doesn't work for me. It might seem better when I see one for real.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 03, 2017, 12:10:19 PM
I feel a book of bad poetry coming on:

I wish I was, my brothers,
Primaris just like you
I'd ride out in a Rhino
and fight your battles too

I'd shoot those orks and punch those Tau
I'd show the world my might
But you leave me in the fortress
Just for my lack of height

Your guns are twice the size of me,
Your glove could fit my head
But let me kill an Eldar
Or Las some Necrons dead

Strap me in my tiny Pod
And drop me down from space
Onto a world of Heresy
I'll melt its slimy face!

Excerpt from "The Littlest Space Marine".

You think GW will commission me?  And yes, I have been drinking...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on June 03, 2017, 01:08:17 PM
No envy here: Space marines are plenty manly:

"I'm a Space Marine and that's Okay!
I pray all night and I fight all day!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on June 03, 2017, 01:15:59 PM
Ordered the starter box and the Index Xenos 2 and the Imperium 1.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: vodkafan on June 03, 2017, 03:08:07 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on June 02, 2017, 05:26:29 PM
It needs sponson mounted guns.  :D

No no sponsons please!
I actually like this as a general SF tank what's it called? and how much? (Prepares defibrillator ready to deal with effects of extreme unpleasant shock)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 03, 2017, 03:29:30 PM
It's called the Repulsor and I'd assume a $65-85 pricetag. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on June 03, 2017, 03:39:02 PM
Quote
Ordered the starter box and the Index Xenos 2 and the Imperium 1.

Wow, With Wayland games it's actually a pretty decent price.
Off course I have 4 armies spread over 4 indexes  :-[

I might at one point actually order the starter set. If I can sell the chaos stuff to someone, it will be a pretty nice deal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: vodkafan on June 03, 2017, 04:08:13 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 03, 2017, 03:29:30 PM
It's called the Repulsor and I'd assume a $65-85 pricetag. 

Ah. I could buy both sides for a historical skirmish game for that. OK thanks
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on June 03, 2017, 05:04:43 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on June 03, 2017, 03:39:02 PM
Wow, With Wayland games it's actually a pretty decent price.
Off course I have 4 armies spread over 4 indexes  :-[

I might at one point actually order the starter set. If I can sell the chaos stuff to someone, it will be a pretty nice deal.


I went for a Spanish store called Bandua - they were doing bundles with 20% discount (Dark Imperium Box + Index Xenos 2 for instance) and the solo Index have a 15% discount. I was lucky, I only have Tau and Orks (plus some Tyranids) and they are all in the same book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on June 04, 2017, 12:31:56 AM
@Momotaro

You spent entirely too much time on that and it was brilliant :D .  Love the book title and the illustrations are dancing around in my head.

Preordered the main box.  I've made arrangements to part out the marines so I'll walk off with the Death Guard and a rule set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 04, 2017, 12:47:53 AM
Went to warhammer world today and tried out 8th. Its alright, I still prefer Age of sigmar because it's simpler but i can see myself playing for the first time in ages.

I also had a chat with a few of the guys in there about the new direction GW are taking, And they mentioned that things are much more relaxed.They were happy to openly chat about other games (Openly chatting in their flagship store about FoW, magic,KoW ect ect )  About rules mechanics, about future releases and even company policy. (the ten commandments are apparently no longer being pushed)

It was a really pleasant change of pace from the hard selling of a couple of years back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on June 04, 2017, 01:55:43 AM
I blame Momotaro for this one...

(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj93/predatorpt/Forums/thelittlest1_zpsavzkxizs.jpg)

Photoshop job done by my brother, pictures taken from Google  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on June 04, 2017, 03:56:11 AM
Lamentations of Little Brother Liliputian

Have I not loved my Emprah?
Have I not shown no Fears?
He threw an epic hissy fit
And shed salty, manly tears.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on June 04, 2017, 11:50:28 AM
Brilliant!

GW needs to do a "Littlest Space Marine" line of models...

In the tradition of all the best cartoon characters, Predoatorpt's version looks like a right little sh*t :D

I'll start with the rulebook and an index to dip my toes in.  Got enough figures to keep me busy for a while.

Also, an interesting article on how Lego rebuilt itself from the point of impending bankruptcy.  May be appropriate in this thread:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jun/04/how-lego-clicked-the-super-brand-that-reinvented-itself (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jun/04/how-lego-clicked-the-super-brand-that-reinvented-itself)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on June 05, 2017, 10:54:09 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on June 03, 2017, 03:39:02 PM
Wow, With Wayland games it's actually a pretty decent price.
yeah but with wayland the items will never arrive in the first place and you'll never see them or your money again  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 05, 2017, 11:28:19 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on June 05, 2017, 10:54:09 AM
yeah but with wayland the items will never arrive in the first place and you'll never see them or your money again  lol

I think that's a thing of the past now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 05, 2017, 12:06:47 PM
I've only used Wayland a couple of times, but both times have been very good service.

I read somewhere that the secret is to only order stuff that's shown as being in stock, as it's the "awaiting" stock stuff that can take a long time to turn up.

Back on topic, the grav tank is slowly starting to grow on me, dammit!!!! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on June 05, 2017, 12:58:50 PM
I've ordered from wayland plenty of times and while yes, at one point it proved difficult to get out of stock items, they have always delivered.

Can't say the tank is growing on me, but the primaris sure are.
I really find myslef looking forward to this edition.

But I was always looking forward to a new edition for fantasy.

I'm still quite positive, though, GW does seem to have turned a new leaf.

Has anyone else noticed a shift in tone in this thread?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 05, 2017, 01:44:47 PM
I saw the new 40k Starter Box models this weekend at Games Expo UK, and I have to say that they looked very nice in hand. Even though I have too many marines already and no real interest in Nurgle. *cough*. Damn, that cough wasn't there a moment ago!  :P  ;)

The chap at the demo table said the new rules had been very well received overall, and that the new game was much more fun than 7E was. Whilst, yes, I know he was there to promote the game and was hardly going to say it was bad, he did genuinely seem to have enjoyed his solid day of playing demos with the constant crowd of people. He also pointed out that the contrast with the demos he ran two years ago for AoS could not have been greater, despite being a very similar set of rules.

Whilst I freely admit the old WHFB ruleset was clunky, and I (still) do not feel the current AoS rules are anything like a proper replacement, I do appreciate the simplicity of a 4-page ruleset that just lets you get some models on the table for an enjoyable hour or so of rolling dice with a friend and (optionally) making sound effects whilst doing so. Like my friend pointed out to me earlier this year, he can read the rules on the bus over to mine, and doesn't need to study a full rulebook a few days beforehand. :)

In this respect I think that the modified AoS rules fit 40k like a glove, and I am very much looking forward to 8E landing.

I also hope all the rules will be properly free too, as I prefer to buy books because I want them, rather than buying them out of obligation just so that I can plan what I might want to play with/buy next. Fingers crossed that GW take that bold move!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 05, 2017, 02:16:50 PM
I would never use wayland again,firestorm games in Cardiff is better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Romark on June 05, 2017, 02:23:48 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on June 05, 2017, 02:16:50 PM
I would never use wayland again,firestorm games in Cardiff is better.
Firestorm games have a very good mail order service  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 05, 2017, 03:16:18 PM
There's another Jes Goodwin interview about to start at 3.30pm on Warhammer TV. Last one was worth a watch and this time it looks like he'll be taking about the new big marines. https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer (https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on June 05, 2017, 10:36:53 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on June 05, 2017, 12:58:50 PM
Has anyone else noticed a shift in tone in this thread?

I skim this thread, but in the last few months I've read some of the posts that didn't have images. I even walked into the Games Workshop store last week!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 05, 2017, 10:41:43 PM
Credit where credit's due, the change in management has brought about a big change in tone and direction and it's bringing more smiles back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on June 05, 2017, 11:48:10 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on June 05, 2017, 10:36:53 PM
I skim this thread, but in the last few months I've read some of the posts that didn't have images. I even walked into the Games Workshop store last week!
It can be a shock to the system doing that...other than to buy a agrax earthshade
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 06, 2017, 09:07:43 AM
Quote from: Cubs on June 05, 2017, 10:41:43 PM
Credit where credit's due, the change in management has brought about a big change in tone and direction and it's bringing more smiles back.
Precisely! Things have changed in many ways, ans I entered a GW shop for the first time in many years too! And came out with a box of genestealer cultists.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 06, 2017, 09:16:48 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on June 06, 2017, 09:07:43 AM
Precisely! Things have changed in many ways, ans I entered a GW shop for the first time in many years too! And came out with a box of genestealer cultists.

Exactly this.

Although in my case, it was a box of Harlequins... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 06, 2017, 09:24:24 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on June 06, 2017, 09:07:43 AM
Precisely! Things have changed in many ways, ans I entered a GW shop for the first time in many years too! And came out with a box of genestealer cultists.

Quote from: Daeothar on June 06, 2017, 09:16:48 AM
Exactly this.

Although in my case, it was a box of Harlequins... :D

This exactly the reason that I have steered clear.
The potential list of things that I could walk off with has grown somewhat recently....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on June 06, 2017, 10:54:51 AM
I've managed to only walk away with some technical paints.

Of course, online I've bought the shadow war book. 20 scouts, a forge world eldar tank, some 30k marines and eldar scorpion exarch....

So, that's not helping.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 08, 2017, 01:01:15 AM
Spoiler alert.
These marines are really lovely to paint.

(http://oi1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/18952533_10206894504440633_2134427766581461290_n_zps9anxxfxv.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on June 08, 2017, 01:03:32 AM
All those highlights...if only I could do those  :'( Fantastic painting!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on June 08, 2017, 07:39:19 AM
There is something about those new bolters that look a bit off. I think they are to long.

The painting is nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 08, 2017, 08:51:15 AM
Yeah; when thinking of boltguns, I'm still sort of remembering the RTB01 bolters, with the ammo clip ahead of the foregrip. So these have just astonishingly long barrels.  :D

They still look cool though... ;)

And nic-e; great paintjob, that! 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on June 08, 2017, 10:39:56 AM
Well, to be fair: these aren't boltguns.
They're bolt-rifles.

And nice PJ, indeed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 08, 2017, 11:37:15 AM
Too kind,Cheers chaps!

Quote from: Dr. Zombie on June 08, 2017, 07:39:19 AM
There is something about those new bolters that look a bit off. I think they are to long.


I kept thinking the same thing. My instinct was that the bolter should end about 3 mm ago. in hand you don't notice too much but they are...off.

The new flying bases are utter ass.they look great and are a step forward from the snappy stick of disappointment, But they rely on a tiny little hook that the miniature rests on.If you super glue them they take ages to fix and if they aren't 100% set then the miniatures will either tumble off or slump under its own weight.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 08, 2017, 11:51:30 AM
Quote from: nic-e on June 08, 2017, 11:37:15 AM
The new flying bases are utter ass.they look great and are a step forward from the snappy stick of disappointment, But they rely on a tiny little hook that the miniature rests on.If you super glue them they take ages to fix and if they aren't 100% set then the miniatures will either tumble off or slump under its own weight.

The new ones the jump primes come with, or are there other new ones?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 08, 2017, 11:54:00 AM
Quote from: YPU on June 08, 2017, 11:51:30 AM
The new ones the jump primes come with, or are there other new ones?

The jump marine onces.
They're just a little u shped shelf where a small part of the mini can rest, But the connection point is 1mm x1mm and those marines are massively front heavy when you put them on. Every time i picked them up they fell off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 08, 2017, 12:35:29 PM
That's a shame, as I think they look pretty cool. But as said; still a lot better than the transparent sticks up the arse that we used to see.

The curved design makes them 'float', which is something the straight flying bases lacked. Looks like I will be using strong metal wire just like before then. Coincidentally, I used to do the curved flying base/rod years ago already; I just think it conveys the illusion of flight much better than those anal glowsticks... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 08, 2017, 12:57:54 PM
That's bizarre...but I suppose it wouldn't be GW without some terrible flight stands/bases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 08, 2017, 01:13:04 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on June 08, 2017, 12:35:29 PM
anal glowsticks... lol


Let's not forget that at one point an entire factions weaponry was based upon those.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 08, 2017, 02:36:04 PM
They still are, aren't they?

I'm glad that I completed my entire Necron army with the old metals, foregoing that novelty aspect altogether... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 08, 2017, 02:50:43 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on June 08, 2017, 02:36:04 PM
They still are, aren't they?

I'm glad that I completed my entire Necron army with the old metals, foregoing that novelty aspect altogether... ::)

I think all the new plastics opt out of the glow sticks, but there are a couple of mainstays that weren't updated such as warriors that still use them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 08, 2017, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: YPU on June 08, 2017, 02:50:43 PM
I think all the new plastics opt out of the glow sticks, but there are a couple of mainstays that weren't updated such as warriors that still use them.


I think all the latest heroes were sculpted to not need them and instead all had unique weapons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 10, 2017, 05:07:43 PM
Thunderhawk Gunship is back from ForgeWorld - link (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Space-marines-thunderhawk-gunship-2017). £450, so cheap enough to get a whole squadron ;D It's £530 if you want it with a landing pad (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Thunderhawk-Gunship-with-Landing-Pad-2017)

The email claims it will hold 30 space marines, but I don't see that mentioned on the pre-order page. Not sure if that's 30 of the old or new true-scale ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 10, 2017, 05:11:32 PM
I remember the metal one coming out when I was a kid, came in a wooden presentation box for £400 iirc.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on June 10, 2017, 09:14:51 PM
Does Forgeworld have the same mafia exchange rate as GW?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 10, 2017, 10:28:51 PM
Started work on the nurgle miniatures from the starter box today. Dear god, these zombie chaps are wonderful! I;m already planning a converted warband of them for AoS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on June 11, 2017, 05:54:53 PM
Having seen the laughable Skaven Team Booster pack for BB I have changed my view on the situation once again. When BB was first released I thought it was decent. A few releases later (including the stupendously bad Goblin set) and the whole thing was to me ok at best. Now with the Skaven booster I don't see any reason to maintain any optimism for the game while it is in GW's hands. They simply do not know how to make good on this game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 11, 2017, 08:36:18 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on June 10, 2017, 05:11:32 PM
I remember the metal one coming out when I was a kid, came in a wooden presentation box for £400 iirc.  ;D

That model has a place now in a kind of cult-hobby following as being one of the heaviest/worst/most difficult modeling challenges around.  Everytime I see someone post about one on an Oldhammer board there is a lot of "Don't do it!" or "You'll be sorry!" kind of stuff thrown about.   lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 11, 2017, 08:37:31 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on June 11, 2017, 05:54:53 PM
Having seen the laughable Skaven Team Booster pack for BB I have changed my view on the situation once again. When BB was first released I thought it was decent. A few releases later (including the stupendously bad Goblin set) and the whole thing was to me ok at best. Now with the Skaven booster I don't see any reason to maintain any optimism for the game while it is in GW's hands. They simply do not know how to make good on this game.

That does beg the question though: do they need to?  There is such MASSIVE 3rd party support for Blood Bowl - why rely on Games Workshop (let alone the piss-poor resin models you get from Forgeworld)?  Are you hoping for new rules, or something?  I'd just use the poplarity to get some sweet pitch-mats and some new dice or something and keep using whatever you want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on June 12, 2017, 06:21:53 AM
To be honest I was unlikely to indulge in it as I still have enough 3rd ed, but it's disappointing that a new generation aren't being treated to a good release. The second hand and alternative markets must be breathing a sigh of relief!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MYNKD on June 12, 2017, 07:47:13 AM
So the new Death Guard are the same size as the Primaris:(https://spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/comparativa-marines-death-guard.jpg)

It seems that GW have been sneakily changing the scale of the miniatures size the Thousand Sons release: (http://i.imgur.com/LGpVRJu.jpg)

If they were gonna change the scale, I wish they'd've made the Primaris 40mm base size in terms of height and then changed the normal space marines into the new Primaris scale.

I really do like the size difference for the Death Guard though, they're some beefy guys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 13, 2017, 08:59:41 PM
Well I enjoyed Total War Warhammer. Now number 2 is coming out http://store.steampowered.com/app/594570/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II/
Very closely on the heals of the first. I'm kind of disappointed that it isn't an expansion to the first game as I bought some DLC for the first one so even if the original races from the first game are included it kind of makes purchasing the DLC redundant, Even if it was a full priced add-on at least it could be added to the original stuff you bought. Maybe it is an updated engine?
Looks good though. I don't think I'll be purchasing it any time soon. Maybe humble bundle will bring it down to $12 again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MYNKD on June 13, 2017, 09:05:05 PM
Quote from: beefcake on June 13, 2017, 08:59:41 PM
Well I enjoyed Total War Warhammer. Now number 2 is coming out http://store.steampowered.com/app/594570/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II/
Very closely on the heals of the first. I'm kind of disappointed that it isn't an expansion to the first game as I bought some DLC for the first one so even if the original races from the first game are included it kind of makes purchasing the DLC redundant, Even if it was a full priced add-on at least it could be added to the original stuff you bought. Maybe it is an updated engine?
Looks good though. I don't think I'll be purchasing it any time soon. Maybe humble bundle will bring it down to $12 again.

They have a combined world. So if you have both you can play a Grand Campaign with both on the same campaign map. It's (kind of) a full fledged expansion that can ALSO be bought as standalone.

Why it's called Total War Warhammer 2 I don't know (why it's not called Total Warhammer is still a mystery to me).

But yeah:

Quote
Shortly after launch, owners of both the original game and Total War™ WARHAMMER II will gain access to the colossal new combined campaign. Merging the landmasses of The Old World plus Naggaroth, Lustria, Ulthuan and the Southlands into a single epic map, players may embark on monumental campaigns as any owned Race from both titles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 13, 2017, 09:10:13 PM
 lol I guess I should learn to read. THanks for that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 17, 2017, 12:57:40 PM
The primaris marines have been reminding me of something for a while, and now I've finally realised what. Their proportions looks a lot close to this than any of the previous versions:

(http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/1283678970/gallery_26_548_80597.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 17, 2017, 01:13:23 PM
"Get away from her, you bitch!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on June 17, 2017, 02:52:42 PM
Not really sold on them myself, appreciate that they are bigger and more realistically proportioned, but they just look a bit 'off' to me. Shoulder pads look too small compared to the recognised space marine aesthetic, if you ask me. I'm not sure about the position of the bolt rifle sight either-looks too far back?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on June 17, 2017, 03:08:20 PM
The bolters are just plain wrong. With their longer barrels they look somehow out of balance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 17, 2017, 07:50:42 PM
They don't have the "wow" factor for me. I'm not a 40K fan but can appreciate good models, from whatever setting and era ( and manfacturer ). But these are just, I don't know, the have the same appeal as dry biscuits or any anonymous family car. Nothing that calls for a second look, I'm afraid... :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on June 17, 2017, 07:59:19 PM
The 8th edition Battle Primer is now available on GW's site:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Battle-Primer-2017-ENG
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 17, 2017, 09:33:38 PM
Looking at the indexes for the new codex books, they are pushing new names pretty hard. everything has to b e copyrightable I guess. Didn't realize its T'au now for instance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 18, 2017, 06:31:48 AM
Quote from: Predatorpt on June 17, 2017, 07:59:19 PM
The 8th edition Battle Primer is now available on GW's site:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Battle-Primer-2017-ENG
I thought that was a new spray paint until I clicked the link.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 18, 2017, 09:01:37 AM
Quote from: beefcake on June 18, 2017, 06:31:48 AM
I thought that was a new spray paint until I clocked the link.

 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 18, 2017, 08:16:27 PM
I've been working the launch all weekend ( in a tin lined railway arch with no windows, no air conditioning and no wind, with 80 magic players on site...It has been very very hot...) and the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive.
It's actually quite unnerving to have warhammer fans tell you how happy they are with games workshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyBrush on June 19, 2017, 10:29:25 AM
Quote from: beefcake on June 18, 2017, 06:31:48 AM
I thought that was a new spray paint until I clicked the link.

Same here. Terrible choice of name lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: powerfrog99 on June 19, 2017, 11:32:53 AM
Quote from: nic-e on June 18, 2017, 08:16:27 PM
...and the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive.
It's actually quite unnerving to have warhammer fans tell you how happy they are with games workshop.

I have read quite a few similar comments these days, looks like they finally found out that by just smashing an old system you don't get the best press...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on June 19, 2017, 12:10:01 PM
Quote from: nic-e on June 18, 2017, 08:16:27 PM
It's actually quite unnerving to have warhammer fans tell you how happy they are with games workshop.

I'm looking forward to it. Just wish Games Workshop and Dark Sphere would get around to shipping my pre-orders.  :-)

[Edit]
Yeah, Games Workshop order arrived and Dark Sphere is on the way (delayed by failure of GW to deliver items to Dark Sphere).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 19, 2017, 12:19:23 PM
My 8th ed arrived just now  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 20, 2017, 09:16:27 AM
Four classic bloodbowl teams are coming back through made to order next week for one week only - link (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/18/blood-bowl-made-to-order-2/)

Vampires, ogres, wood elves and halflings.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 20, 2017, 09:18:56 AM
lol, just bought the wood elves here on LAF. Really want the goblin team to turn up on there but I doubt it will.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: steders on June 21, 2017, 01:06:49 PM
I think 8th Ed 40K looks interesting, the Nurgle lads look fantastic and the giant marines have grown on me.
I am surprised GW haven't released any datasheets to go with the free to download core rules. Would it not make sense to have something like normal marines and Orks so people can have a quick go, see if they like the rules.
Otherwise, whats the point?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 21, 2017, 01:39:44 PM
They won't likely be repeating the AoS approach of free unit rules (they only did that trying to salvage the debacle that was killing off their entire world and generally pissing off the entire Warhammer Fantasy community).  40K sells more than enough to not need the nibble of free units.  It'd be nice, but completely unnecessary.  40K is one of the few games that will sell, regardless of quality, etc.

Space Marine products and the starter box is almost as good as printing money for GW.  I'm not complaining, just saying I don't think we'll see much free.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 21, 2017, 01:47:37 PM
I think I quite like the rules but bugger me if GW doesn't have a knack for vague wording. One example that jumped out at me was for Ogryns in transports:

"Each ogryn takes the space of three other models."

Does this mean an ogryn takes three or four spaces? As in, "This Ogryn is a big dude and takes up three seats where other models would only take up one" OR "Here's an Ogryn sitting in a seat, but he's also taking up the seats of three other guys".

Why not just say "[in transports] an Ogryn counts as 3 [or four, whatever] models"? Even "Each Ogyrn takes the space of three [or four...] models" is clearer. The 'other' is what messes it up.

I'm pretty sure it's three. But who knows. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: steders on June 21, 2017, 01:55:24 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 21, 2017, 01:39:44 PM
They won't likely be repeating the AoS approach of free unit rules (they only did that trying to salvage the debacle that was killing off their entire world and generally pissing off the entire Warhammer Fantasy community).  40K sells more than enough to not need the nibble of free units.  It'd be nice, but completely unnecessary.  40K is one of the few games that will sell, regardless of quality, etc.

Space Marine products and the starter box is almost as good as printing money for GW.  I'm not complaining, just saying I don't think we'll see much free.
I wasn't saying they should release all details for all of their figures, just some examples so you can try the rules or even put them in white dwarf.
Seems pointless to have free rules but absolutely no stats so you can play them
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 21, 2017, 01:58:00 PM
Yep, they desperately need a technical editor with a mind toward wargaming.  It's not difficult for the main writer to sit down and develop cut-n-paste entries for stuff like this, which, history tells us, will be abused/questioned/rolled about in the tournament community.

The main rules writer (and/or technical editor) should have provided a template for most of the things necessary.  They also made the mistake like they did in 7th of giving dozens of units the same exact rules...and calling them something different, because "flavor"?  Numerous units have a deep strike ability and have it named dozens of different ways - even worded slightly differently in several entries.  This is just dumb.

I always tell people...Games Workshop has never written a brilliant rule set.  They've made a lot of fun ones, but no one has ever read a rule set from GW and thought "this is technically brilliant!".  Never, ever. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 21, 2017, 01:59:18 PM
Quote from: steders on June 21, 2017, 01:55:24 PM
I wasn't saying they should release all details for all of their figures, just some examples so you can try the rules or even put them in white dwarf.
Seems pointless to have free rules but absolutely no stats so you can play them

Luckily for the casual gamer, almost all of the rules for all of the units have been leaked online already, so the community took care of that for them. :D  (also, I believe the intent is to perhaps include the rules sheet within the new model boxes, so that might be a way to introduce brand-new-gamer-Johnny to how the game works?)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 21, 2017, 02:50:28 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 21, 2017, 01:59:18 PM
...also, I believe the intent is to perhaps include the rules sheet within the new model boxes, so that might be a way to introduce brand-new-gamer-Johnny to how the game works?

Well, that might work.

Back in the day, I always felt slightly disappointed with the boxed sets I bought; a styrofoam tray, some metal and plastic components and that was it. No fluff, no how to, no flavor, not even a small leaflet! (Although there usually were some waterslide transfers).

I loved the models, but I would have liked some more cool pictures to gawk at. And with the more complicated plastics of today, at least an instruction leaflet would be appreciated, but adding rules would certainly make a box more interesting for young buyers.

The first Warmachine starter boxes were like that; with a huge rules sheet and stat cards for all the included units. That made the entire experience more involved immediately.

I can imagine that this GW line with the cheap and easy starter models in highstreet stores, (which should have been long available by now, but I haven't seen a single one so far) will have some extra printed material included, as the goal of those is to draw new customers in.

Did those ever happen, or was that just a threat btw?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 21, 2017, 02:54:22 PM
If you're talking about the somewhat bizarre Battle of Vedros set...it happened, kinda?

It was a re-hash of old starter set plastics (Battle for Black Reach?) molded in coloured plastic - though some weren't?  Anyway, they planned on selling this in non-game stores.  When they announced it in the US they mentioned places like Hobby Town USA, even Ace Hardware.  I don't think it ever caught on.  You can find the stuff on eBay etc. but it's actually quite pricey.  I was excited at the prospect of cheap GW stuff I could pick up for my nephew, but it never really happened.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on June 21, 2017, 03:00:20 PM
TheDark Imperium box is very impressive. I like the models and the rulebook is packed full of stuff. Even the dice are nicer than normal...bit I was surprised that there wasn't a starter mini campaign /tutorial in there like in previous boxes. Or did I miss it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 21, 2017, 04:44:18 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 21, 2017, 01:58:00 PM
I always tell people...Games Workshop has never written a brilliant rule set.  They've made a lot of fun ones, but no one has ever read a rule set from GW and thought "this is technically brilliant!".  Never, ever. :D

I'd say Space Hulk is a candidate for a brilliant rules set, along with Battlefleet Gothic. The problems with those sets arrived with the add-ons and supplements.

I made the mistake of buying my 40K 8th book from the GW website. Naturally, it hasn't arrived yet.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 21, 2017, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 21, 2017, 02:54:22 PM
If you're talking about the somewhat bizarre Battle of Vedros set...it happened, kinda?

It was a re-hash of old starter set plastics (Battle for Black Reach?) molded in coloured plastic - though some weren't?  Anyway, they planned on selling this in non-game stores.  When they announced it in the US they mentioned places like Hobby Town USA, even Ace Hardware.  I don't think it ever caught on.  You can find the stuff on eBay etc. but it's actually quite pricey.  I was excited at the prospect of cheap GW stuff I could pick up for my nephew, but it never really happened.



That's what I feared, yes. I had the same hopes (and exactly the same motivation as it turns out), but never saw a single set in the wild...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on June 21, 2017, 05:33:06 PM
Last time I was in Antics Bristol they had some of the Vedros sets. I didn't see the prices...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Steve F on June 21, 2017, 06:09:48 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 21, 2017, 01:58:00 PM
Yes, but no one has ever read a rule set from GW and thought "this is technically brilliant!".  Never, ever. :D

Warmaster - in particular the initiative system - was both ingenious and hugely influential.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on June 21, 2017, 07:26:07 PM
Quote from: Steve F on June 21, 2017, 06:09:48 PM
Warmaster - in particular the initiative system - was both ingenious and hugely influential.

Yep, see the "_______ commander" series.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 21, 2017, 07:26:51 PM
Quote from: Steve F on June 21, 2017, 06:09:48 PM
Warmaster - in particular the initiative system - was both ingenious and hugely influential.

And I've recently acquired a copy of Man O'War (still in transit), of which I hear nothing but good things...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 21, 2017, 09:17:31 PM
Quote from: Steve F on June 21, 2017, 06:09:48 PM
Warmaster - in particular the initiative system - was both ingenious and hugely influential.

That was a seriously fun game, and great machanics. I didn't play it much for lack of opponents so I forgot about it ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on June 21, 2017, 10:27:02 PM
Infuriating though it can be, I consider Blood Bowl to be a brilliant ruleset.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: steders on June 21, 2017, 11:01:41 PM
Spacehulk. Fantastic game. After a couple of turns its second nature.

Sorry Elbows, this seems to turning into 'what have GW ever done for us?'
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 22, 2017, 12:31:46 AM
Quote from: Gibby on June 21, 2017, 10:27:02 PM
Infuriating though it can be, I consider Blood Bowl to be a brilliant ruleset.

If you mean 3rd edition, then I am with you with this one.
It had its faults when abused, but which ruleset is above players 'breaking; it?
Very clever dynamics.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on June 22, 2017, 10:07:23 AM
Quote from: Steve F on June 21, 2017, 06:09:48 PM
Warmaster - in particular the initiative system - was both ingenious and hugely influential.
agreed...probably why it died so quickly. GW fans hate ingenuity.
though its later incarnation in war of the ring was a joke.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on June 22, 2017, 12:42:52 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on June 21, 2017, 05:20:04 PM
That's what I feared, yes. I had the same hopes (and exactly the same motivation as it turns out), but never saw a single set in the wild...

The Vedros stuff is widely available in 'Game' stores - the video games chain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 22, 2017, 12:57:36 PM
They've done something similar to vedros with the new thunder and blood set for age of sigmar.
the named characters are available separate (but not the lord relictor... >:( )  and for £50 you get the troops, two lesser heros, a play mat and the box folds out into scenery (more of these please!new players need to understand that terrain is not optional! )
 
Along with the spire of dawn box that makes 3 old starter boxes brought bac into circulation as cheaper starting points for new players . I also have a suspicion that we may see the new official age of sigmar starter box around autumn,when the second generals handbook drops.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on June 22, 2017, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on June 22, 2017, 10:07:23 AM
agreed...probably why it died so quickly. GW fans hate ingenuity.
though its later incarnation in war of the ring was a joke.

Warmaster was released in 2000 and sale of official miniatures ended in 2013. That hardly qualifies as "quickly"
But thanks for surveying all the GW fans and discovering we don't like innovation. I wonder then what it is about the game that attracted me to it?  ???

Warmaster performed exactly as such GW games were expected to at that time. Initial high interest and excitement followed by rapid decline to a small but dedicated rump of enthusiasts. The were designed to fill the gap years between the "Big Box" game releases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 22, 2017, 04:11:26 PM
Quote
rump of enthusiasts

 :o lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on June 22, 2017, 04:50:56 PM
Not all rumps of enthusiasts are enthusiasts of rump
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 22, 2017, 05:54:26 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 21, 2017, 01:58:00 PM
I always tell people...Games Workshop has never written a brilliant rule set.  They've made a lot of fun ones, but no one has ever read a rule set from GW and thought "this is technically brilliant!".  Never, ever. :D

I actually think 2nd ed. Space Marine is a brilliant ruleset: the orders system, the importance of breaking units and capturing terrain rather than wiping out the enemy, the balance between fire-power and close combat, the army cards, the simple yet effective dice mechanics.... it is the only GW game I have played consistently since the early 90s.
Lets not mention the abomination that was Titan Legions
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on June 22, 2017, 06:22:07 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on June 21, 2017, 07:26:51 PM
And I've recently acquired a copy of Man O'War (still in transit), of which I hear nothing but good things...

Excellent purchase. Man O war is a brilliant game
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on June 22, 2017, 09:04:33 PM
The trouble with Warmaster is/was (I still play it now maybe once or twice a year) is that you can and do quite often see more than half your army sit there doing nothing as they fail order after order.

As a Greenskin Warmaster player I have 2 main choices, go with Crown of Command on my General and risk failing a a test (If you fail a test with your General your turn ends, no other Hero can order) or rely on a low Leadership Hero to maybe get 1 or 2 orders in before failing and hopefully it doesn't mess up when it's needed most.

More than once I failed the first order with the General and by effect lost a whole turn.

Honestly if I didn't already have a force I wouldn't buy into it now adays.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on June 22, 2017, 09:13:59 PM
Quote from: Chico on June 22, 2017, 09:04:33 PM
The trouble with Warmaster is/was (I still play it now maybe once or twice a year) is that you can and do quite often see more than half your army sit there doing nothing as they fail order after order.

As a Greenskin Warmaster player I have 2 main choices, go with Crown of Command on my General and risk failing a a test (If you fail a test with your General your turn ends, no other Hero can order) or rely on a low Leadership Hero to maybe get 1 or 2 orders in before failing and hopefully it doesn't mess up when it's needed most.

More than once I failed the first order with the General and by effect lost a whole turn.

Honestly if I didn't already have a force I wouldn't buy into it now adays.

Whether that's a feature or a bug is entirely dependent on your perspective... do you want your fantasy army to behave like historical armies of the middle ages/antiquity did, where command and control was difficult and orders being spread by runners or horns or whatnot could be confused or delayed?  Or do you want a more chess-like, gamey (not using that as a negative) system with predictable moves?  With it being such a core mechanic of the game, I'd argue that the ruleset itself skews toward the "simulation" approach vs the chess one.  It could probably have been done better by not relying on the d6 to determine that though...but that limited range of random results distribution is a well documented result of using d6's, and I think has led to the greater use of more-sided dice like d10's and 12's in recent rulesets.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 22, 2017, 10:06:52 PM
In that regard, does anyone have any opinions on this (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=101538.0)? (Strengths and weaknesses of Warmaster and Mayhem: I've played only the latter, but am interested to know how it compares to Warmaster).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on June 22, 2017, 10:58:29 PM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on June 22, 2017, 09:13:59 PM
Whether that's a feature or a bug is entirely dependent on your perspective... do you want your fantasy army to behave like historical armies of the middle ages/antiquity did, where command and control was difficult and orders being spread by runners or horns or whatnot could be confused or delayed?  Or do you want a more chess-like, gamey (not using that as a negative) system with predictable moves?

It's a good point, myself I want a game where all my expensive little lovingly/time consuming painted toys do something in a game (Even of that's something small like moving, being a threat or just fodder). Sadly 90% of my gaming time is at a local Club where I have to spend money both to travel there and for the night itself so the idea of paying twice (for the figures then to use them) for the Army to go ''Nope, I'll just sit here all day'' isn't all that thrilling.

It's a fine balance between having a predictable Rule system and a random one, for example my favour rules sets atm are Bolt Action and Gates of Antares were there is a high randomness factor but not too random and ways to limit and control it for Army choices.

Also fun fact I was staff at GW Watford a few months/half a year (Might even be longer after, year or so :/ ) after Warmaster came out, I hated running intro games of it as it was so out of the norm for a GW gameset that there were many cries of rage and confusion hehe.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 23, 2017, 06:33:55 AM
I'm also a big fan of 3rd edition Blood Bowl. I've been recollecting (not remembering but actually collecting... again) teams recently. I got a skaven team, boxed set (not the box) plus Hakflem and headsplitter for about 35 pounds. So glad I got them as I used to play a skaven team but sold it off. Also managed to get a large human team and undead team plus wood elves. All I really want now is a goblin only team. they are so much fun with the secret weapons they have. I'm trying to get my son into laying it too. I think I'll let him get a hand on my Heresy miniatures Ogre team (4th ed?). That should give him some big bashing potential.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on June 23, 2017, 10:36:31 PM
Space marine 2nd ed and original space hulk were nice games.

Advanced space Crusade, not so much...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 23, 2017, 10:52:51 PM
That time of year again!

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Hulk-2016 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Hulk-2016)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 23, 2017, 10:55:33 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on June 23, 2017, 10:52:51 PM
That time of year again!

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Hulk-2016 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Hulk-2016)

Huh....Now it's very tempting to treat myself as a post degree reward.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 23, 2017, 11:25:51 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on June 23, 2017, 10:52:51 PM
That time of year again!

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on June 24, 2017, 09:07:59 PM
Quote from: nic-e on June 23, 2017, 10:55:33 PM
Huh....Now it's very tempting to treat myself as a post degree reward.

Do it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on June 24, 2017, 10:16:55 PM
I just assembled one of the new Lord of Change miniatures. It is huge - same size as the Heresy Netherlord which is also ssat on my worktop, and  absolutely towering over my other Lord of Change. An impressive beast.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 25, 2017, 09:25:32 AM
Quote from: nic-e on June 23, 2017, 10:55:33 PM
Huh....Now it's very tempting to treat myself as a post degree reward.
Go on, do it. I bought the new 40k to fulfil a vow made to the gods* if I managed to get to the top (and again safely to the bottom) of Ben Nevis a couple of weeks back.

*take your pick.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 25, 2017, 12:16:40 PM
Quote from: Gibby on June 24, 2017, 09:07:59 PM
Do it!
Quote from: Vanvlak on June 25, 2017, 09:25:32 AM
Go on, do it. I bought the new 40k to fulfil a vow made to the gods* if I managed to get to the top (and again safely to the bottom) of Ben Nevis a couple of weeks back.

*take your pick.

I caved and got some skeletons ,spirit hosts, dark oath chieftain and dungeon tiles instead. Planning on running heroquest with AoS minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 25, 2017, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on June 25, 2017, 09:25:32 AM
Go on, do it. I bought the new 40k to fulfil a vow made to the gods* if I managed to get to the top (and again safely to the bottom) of Ben Nevis a couple of weeks back.

*take your pick.

That is a good idea.
Reward yourself for completing a task.
 :D

I went to the shop earlier for some milk and a paper, maybe I should order myself something as a reward for completing that task successfully.
 :D ;)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 25, 2017, 03:31:33 PM
Quote from: Mason on June 25, 2017, 03:26:01 PM
That is a good idea.
Reward yourself for completing a task.
 :D

I went to the shop earlier for some milk and a paper, maybe I should order myself something as a reward for completing that task successfully.
 :D ;)



Well done, you deserve it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on June 25, 2017, 06:59:41 PM
New releases announced...and I really like these guys (Primaris Reivers):

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40kPrimarisReiversReveal.jpg)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/25/new-primaris-space-marines-and-death-guard-announced/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 25, 2017, 07:06:11 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on June 25, 2017, 03:31:33 PM
Well done, you deserve it!

That is what I told myself too!
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 25, 2017, 07:13:05 PM
Those new starter packs with tiles and card terrain are pretty much perfect products.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vindice on June 25, 2017, 07:55:56 PM
My wife just bought me Space Hulk as a present just because.
 :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 25, 2017, 08:06:22 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on June 25, 2017, 07:13:05 PM
Those new starter packs with tiles and card terrain are pretty much perfect products.

That box as terrain is a great idea, it's not much but so much more than nothing!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 25, 2017, 08:20:05 PM
Although looking again, those reivers all look like they're on high heels, wearing Halloween masks....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on June 25, 2017, 08:24:07 PM
Not sure on the reivers. But loving the captain, librarian and nurgle stuff
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 25, 2017, 08:25:43 PM
What's that?! a 40k version of the storm of sigmar box with primaris marines and death card, a play mat and card scenery!?
OH GOD, I'M INDECENTLY EXCITED!

Quote from: Predatorpt on June 25, 2017, 06:59:41 PM
New releases announced...and I really like these guys (Primaris Reivers):

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/40kPrimarisReiversReveal.jpg)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/25/new-primaris-space-marines-and-death-guard-announced/

So there's a little ditbit of fluff that says cawl has possibly been using traitor genesede from the pre heresy days in his new creations. Do we know of any other sneaky, murdery, stealthy marines with a fondness for psychological warfare?......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 25, 2017, 08:26:55 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on June 25, 2017, 08:20:05 PM
Although looking again, those reivers all look like they're on high heels, wearing Halloween masks....

I just dont 'get' them.
Weird dress sense aside, why would you send out a marine with the 40K equivalent to a spud gun and a potato peeler?


I do like that Librarian, though.
 8) 8)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 25, 2017, 09:02:41 PM
Quote from: Mason on June 25, 2017, 08:26:55 PM
I just dont 'get' them.
Weird dress sense aside, why would you send out a marine with the 40K equivalent to a spud gun and a potato peeler?


I do like that Librarian, though.
 8) 8)


Just a theory but....
You send them along the abandoned and forgotten trench lines outside the besieged hive, under the enemy radar. They get into the hive through the old transport gate.The guards don't hear them coming, They were looking for charging giants, Not ghosts in armour.

Then they start.every night, more and more sentries are found strung from the spires, more soldiers are found dead in their barracks and more men are reporting skull faced assassins hiding in the shadows. Before you know it that traitor hive isn't looking out from its walls to the imperial armies, it's eating itself alive trying to find and kill the spectres that have kept them awake for 3 weeks with gunshots and screams in the dark...


Where a scout is recon and assassination, these guys look to be more terror and destabilisation.



On an unrelated note, GW finally remmebered that scenery is the best past of the hobby and started putting paper playmats and cardboard scenery in it's boxes. I'm going to be having that mini starter box on release day and pasting the mat onto a piece of board, then adding some shadow wars scenery for a 2x2 skirmish board.
I'm really excited for 40k, it's nice.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 25, 2017, 09:06:06 PM
The Reivers (while a fine concept) look pretty daft with regards to posing...and as Andrew mentioned their "dynamic" posing apparently means raising the heel of one boot.

I think the other products in general are home-run ideas (mainly for their retail stores and getting kids/new players into the hobby).  I'm waiting to see how comprehensive the rulebook is from, say, "Know no Fear".  I'd like a trimmed down rulebook (basically everything MINUS the fluff).  So if one of these kits includes that I'll be hunting for one on eBay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 25, 2017, 09:50:20 PM
I think that at least within the lore a bolt pistol is still an extremely potent weapon, but relatively short ranged.

The poses are probably because these are very easy snap fit models. And I must say, they look quite decent for snap fit models. A lot better than some we have gotten trough the years, but they look like wargamers trying to dance. slightly twisting and lifting their heels.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 25, 2017, 11:05:43 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on June 25, 2017, 08:20:05 PM
Although looking again, those reivers all look like they're on high heels, wearing Halloween masks....

No, they are sneaky assassins, so probably do a lot of  walking around on tip-toe... in power armor.

High heels would make to much noise..

Walking like a ballerina is clearly going to be much quieter.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 25, 2017, 11:24:02 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on June 25, 2017, 11:05:43 PM
No, they are sneaky assassins, so probably do a lot of  walking around on tip-toe... in power armor.

High heels would make to much noise..

Walking like a ballerina is clearly going to be much quieter.


bloody games workshop! their poses are so strange, you'd never find those kinds of conventions of good sculptures....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrapposto
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 25, 2017, 11:59:59 PM
I'm seeing cut off jeans and hi top trainers...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 26, 2017, 12:43:50 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on June 25, 2017, 11:59:59 PM
I'm seeing cut off jeans and hi top trainers...

I couldn't resist....

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/sneakers%20for%20sneaking_zpsd1lcsg6k.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on June 26, 2017, 01:38:21 AM
The reivers look like they took some some design cues from the scout armour.  They have the similar, "moon boots".  As snap fits all of them look quite impressive.  The disproportionate Primaris love is discouraging though. 

"Hey marine lovers you can't have your big boys taking orders from little fellas!  Here are some Special Characters and a brand newsie unit that steals the Night Lords schtick only bigger and better.  Suck it chaos! Here's three snapfit troops for you."

If the goodies do everything the baddies do they dilute the integrity of their own IP.  The Imperium has always been morally sketchy and a dubious.  If anything Gulliman should have injected some direction into their moral compass.  I'm sure the servants of Chaos and Necrons will be terrified when they see tall scouts trying to disguise themselves as them with party masks.  Great conversion fodder for more Night Lords though :D .

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 26, 2017, 06:15:50 AM
Meanwhile, did anyone else notice the single mention of Squats in the new 40K rule book?


Before you get too worked up, it's in the appendices, and then just listed as a tolerated abhuman race (along with ogryns - including 'grey ogryns' (?), ratlings, cat people (?!) endemic to a planet of unmemorable name...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 26, 2017, 06:26:11 AM
I just see these new fellas as the Primaris version of Scouts, ready for when they phase out the 'ikkle Bikkle Marines' and replace them completely with the new 'Big Boys' over time.
Heavy bolter and sniper rifle options next...?
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on June 26, 2017, 07:20:14 AM
Are the grenades they carry on their chests flat on the back or do they have grenadeshaped indentations in their armour?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 26, 2017, 09:33:30 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on June 26, 2017, 07:20:14 AM
Are the grenades they carry on their chests flat on the back or do they have grenadeshaped indentations in their armour?
lol

Probably two piece grenades that snap together like Lego.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 26, 2017, 10:38:36 AM
Quote from: nic-e on June 25, 2017, 11:24:02 PM
bloody games workshop! their poses are so strange, you'd never find those kinds of conventions of good sculptures....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrapposto


But they're not Contrapposto, look at the line of the hips and shoulders.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on June 26, 2017, 12:21:34 PM
Quote from: beefcake on June 26, 2017, 09:33:30 AM
lol

Probably two piece grenades that snap together like Lego.

That could work you snap the two halves together to prime the grenade.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 26, 2017, 01:09:59 PM
Quote from: YPU on June 25, 2017, 08:06:22 PM
That box as terrain is a great idea, it's not much but so much more than nothing!

Exactly like the Infinity starter boxes...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 26, 2017, 05:00:53 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on June 26, 2017, 10:38:36 AM
But they're not Contrapposto, look at the line of the hips and shoulders.

It was more a joke about the fact that everyone gets up in arms any time a miniature doesn't have two feet planted firmly on the floor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on June 26, 2017, 06:02:39 PM
I quite like the Reivers, as already pointed our rather Night Lordy :D.

Now those new Death Guard I may just have to get as they look tasty, never been a Nurgle fan more a Slaaneshi devotee but with each release my resolve is weakening.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 26, 2017, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: nic-e on June 26, 2017, 05:00:53 PM
It was more a joke about the fact that everyone gets up in arms any time a miniature doesn't have two feet planted firmly on the floor.

They should just plonk a rock (or skull) under one foot like proper miniatures... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on June 27, 2017, 04:27:09 AM
One thing I have found amusing is the criticism about how generic the models are.  It seem a 180 from the runing death by skulls (or any other bling accoutrements) the models are are usually festooned with.  I'm not sure if it speaks for a new trend in the models or is just a practical measure because the Primaris guys can be attached to any chapters and any pre-molded bits and bobs would diminish the universality.

I think they did the "rescaling" of Chaos better where there have been "big" chaos offerings at least since the thousand sons.  Throughout the period there hasn't been a, 41st millennium dollar man story;  It just happened incrementally and I liked it.  I like the new models because they are just begging to be chopped up and made into different stuff. 

 

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on June 27, 2017, 09:56:16 AM
One thing I feel is that over time, a lot of 40k stuff has evolved to become less 'distant future' in its look and more, 'near future'. In particular Space Marines, taking a lot of their style from real world militaries, especially special forces.

Whereas the styling of Rogue Trader and 2nd Edition drew inspiration from a wide variety of sources such as a mish mash of pop culture, the classics, biblical stories and history (particularly medieval) resulting in a fairly distinctive look for the 40k universe, The 40k of today feels like it draws a lot of its visual cues from computer games, other sci fi wargames and films and TV shows directly as opposed to being inspired by them, when in the past it seemed a lot was inspired by the Warhammer 40k universe.

A good example of this would be that the new Reivers although quite decent looking (posing issues aside) seem to be very reminiscent of Tom Clancy's 'Ghosts'. Yeah they look quite cool but they exist much more in the here and now of reality than the far flung future, and are perhaps the antithesis of the Mark VI Beaky Helmet.

Also I wish Games Workshop would stop painting EVERYTHING as Ultramarines. They've being doing it for over 15 years now I reckon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 27, 2017, 12:32:42 PM
Quote from: westwaller on June 27, 2017, 09:56:16 AM
Also I wish Games Workshop would stop painting EVERYTHING as Ultramarines. They've being doing it for over 15 years now I reckon.

Ultramarines as the "default" is partly because the studio army has been Ultramarines since 2E, so about 25 years I reckon. And although in 3E the studio dabbled initially with Imperial Fists, they reverted back to Ultramarines soon enough, and then to a darker blue scheme when 4E launched.

At around the same time during 3E, the Black Legion became the default scheme for all Chaos models too.

It's quite clear that this was in line with GW's desire to make the "default" model schemes easily accessible for players who wanted to copy that paint scheme, and both are dark colours applied over a black spray undercoat with a metal trim.

Other models of that era also followed that trend, and the painting guides for most of their model ranges changed quite obviously in line with this new approach as well. WHFB6E for example had its army books filled with painting guides that were essentially variations of "black spray-basecoat-ink wash-drybrush" and emphasised getting big units done quickly.

Whilst the more recent trend towards brighter and more colourful models again is very welcome, I note that the trend towards these "default" colour schemes has remained.

I do see more examples of schemes and forces on the backs of the model boxes than I used to though, and likewise more photos of schemes and forces in the various publications; these are very welcome. For example, in 40k 6E/7E I started to see small themed studio armies pictured in their publications for Raven Guard, Salamanders, White Scars, and Iron Hands, all of which looked great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 27, 2017, 01:29:15 PM
I really can't praise GW enough for their comunity interaction these past few months.Getting in fan illustrators that are loved by the fan base to help and work on the community website was a great idea, and it's refreshing to see gw drop the "skulls and grim seriousness 4evar" attitude towards it's IP once in a while.

Having said that, these illustrations sometimes really don't gel with the material they're depicting.Seeing an adorable space marine is jusy unnerving!  lol

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/weird_zps6lwu4udo.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 27, 2017, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: nic-e on June 27, 2017, 01:29:15 PM
I really can't praise GW enough for their comunity interaction these past few months.Getting in fan illustrators that are loved by the fan base to help and work on the community website was a great idea, and it's refreshing to see gw drop the "skulls and grim seriousness 4evar" attitude towards it's IP once in a while.

Having said that, these illustrations sometimes really don't gel with the material they're depicting.Seeing an adorable space marine is jusy unnerving!  lol

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/weird_zps6lwu4udo.jpg)
I hadn't seen this, you're write - they seem to be up for adoption!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 27, 2017, 01:36:56 PM
Speaking of boring Ultramarine colour schemes, I'm curious when we'll see the first "new" Chapter of Primaris marines - at least from a GW aspect.  They stated in the Primaris fluff, etc. that entire new Chapters had been developed.  I'm waiting to see if GW adopts any of these as a new common chapter, or even at least releases some colour schemes/background to some new ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on June 27, 2017, 05:21:34 PM
I take the point about them being more generic. The fact that they do not carry half a gothic cathedral about their person is definitely a plus, but there is still something ugly about them.

I have a small collection of the original MK 8 Errant armour marines from around 1992. They also look quite functional, but much more menacing and elegant than these.

I have done a zenithal prime on the lord of change model which shows up all the detail. It really is looking promising. I feel that the studio paintjob doesnt do the model justice. By focussing on making it "pop" all over, it is visually confusing. Obviously these people are first rate painters, but they are churning out these paintjobs according to some specifications which dont always fit the model. I am thinking of using rich darker tones over most of the model and only making the heads lighter tones. If i get decent results I´ll post pics somewhere.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on June 27, 2017, 05:31:31 PM
Quote
I feel that the studio paintjob doesnt do the model justice. By focussing on making it "pop" all over, it is visually confusing. Obviously these people are first rate painters, but they are churning out these paintjobs according to some specifications which dont always fit the model

More then once I thought a GW model wasn't that great untill another painter actually slapped some decent colours on it.
They do have a tendency to pick the wrong colours a bit to often.
Then again sometimes they hit the mark quite well. It's a pretty mixd bag.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 27, 2017, 09:06:47 PM
Metal Bloodbowl teams up for sale now, only a few days left. Im tempted to get some sent to my brothers house in England for my parents, who are visiting him at the moment, to bring back for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MYNKD on June 28, 2017, 11:01:37 AM
I really hope Games Workshop replaces the rest of the CSM kits with ones as high quality and same scale as the Death Guard some time soon. I see stuff like this (http://imgur.com/a/0iF5C) and it really makes me think that GW have missed out on some real quality kit ideas (and they seem to struggle with non-aligned mutations that aren't just "turn into chaos spawn").

As an example, you could have a threesome with Abaddon and Fabius Bile if you really wanted to, that's how old they are.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 28, 2017, 11:03:34 AM
Quote from: MYNKD on June 28, 2017, 11:01:37 AM
As an example, you could have sex with Abaddon if you really wanted to, that's how old they are.

 :o :o :o

 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on June 28, 2017, 11:14:59 AM
Quote from: MYNKD on June 28, 2017, 11:01:37 AM
I really hope Games Workshop replaces the rest of the CSM kits with ones as high quality and same scale as the Death Guard some time soon. I see stuff like this (http://imgur.com/a/0iF5C) and it really makes me think that GW have missed out on some real quality kit ideas (and they seem to struggle with non-aligned mutations that aren't just "turn into chaos spawn").

As an example, you could have a threesome with Abaddon and Fabius Bile if you really wanted to, that's how old they are.

Absolutely. Some of the kits are awfully old and creaky now. The Khorne Beserkers? After the Rubric marines and presumably a new Death guard box I hope at least to see new plastic Khorne Beserkers and Noise Marines, and a new CSM kit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on June 28, 2017, 11:48:35 AM
Quote from: Mason on June 28, 2017, 11:03:34 AM
Quote from: MYNKD on Today at 12:01:37 PM
As an example, you could have sex with Abaddon if you really wanted to, that's how old they are.
 :o :o :o

 lol lol lol

Giving completely new meanings to Biles Rod of torment and Abaddons Powerfist.  :o :-X :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Romark on June 28, 2017, 11:58:48 AM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on June 28, 2017, 11:48:35 AM
Giving completely new meanings to Biles Rod of torment and Abaddons Powerfist.  :o :-X :'(
:o now that's an image I'm going to have trouble forgetting  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 28, 2017, 02:38:42 PM
Quote from: Dr. Zombie on June 28, 2017, 11:48:35 AM
Giving completely new meanings to Biles Rod of torment and Abaddons Powerfist.  :o :-X :'(

 :o :o
You have spent too long speaking with Dirk.
It appears that he has warped your mind!
 ;D ;)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 28, 2017, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: Romark on June 28, 2017, 11:58:48 AM
:o now that's an image I'm going to have trouble forgetting  lol

Don't worry, 1d4chan have got you covered....

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/800px-Abaddon_and_some_kittens_by_twopunch-d6kosgl_zpsudq97muw.png)

(http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p771/Nic-e2/460px-Rule_63_Ezekiel_Abaddon_zpskqaugiax.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 28, 2017, 03:14:29 PM
Speaking of old figures...the Eldar range is almost as ancient as they are in the fluff. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on June 28, 2017, 05:05:27 PM
Quote from: beefcake on June 27, 2017, 09:06:47 PM
Metal Bloodbowl teams up for sale now, only a few days left. Im tempted to get some sent to my brothers house in England for my parents, who are visiting him at the moment, to bring back for me.

How long are your parents visiting? Doesnt it usually take several weeks for them to be cast and sent out since they are made to order? I thought it said up to 30 days or something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 28, 2017, 08:10:01 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 28, 2017, 03:14:29 PM
Speaking of old figures...the Eldar range is almost as ancient as they are in the fluff. :D

Yep, Avatar, warp Spiders and Phoenix Lords, well I can remember them coming out when I was a kid!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 28, 2017, 08:33:34 PM
I collect Sisters of Battle- I don't want to hear any griping about old miniatures ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 28, 2017, 08:58:33 PM
Quote from: Timbor on June 28, 2017, 05:05:27 PM
How long are your parents visiting? Doesnt it usually take several weeks for them to be cast and sent out since they are made to order? I thought it said up to 30 days or something.
That's plenty of time :) but thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 28, 2017, 10:59:54 PM
What are the citadel miniatures that have been available for the longest? I mean never having left the catalog? Eldar Avatar seems oldest to me, there's bound to be some classic Jes Goodwin stuff that's NEVER gone OOP?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on June 28, 2017, 11:04:32 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on June 28, 2017, 10:59:54 PM
What are the citadel miniatures that have been available for the longest? I mean never having left the catalog? Eldar Avatar seems oldest to me, there's bound to be some classic Jes Goodwin stuff that's NEVER gone OOP?

The Avatar and Phoenix Lords must be surely. Those things are all ancient.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 28, 2017, 11:06:11 PM
Those two old classic Servitor models?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 28, 2017, 11:07:07 PM
There was a thread on Dakka about this exact subject.

It came down to the Goff Rockers (some limited metal/resin figures still available on their site for no real reason) and a handful of the Eldar models.  I think the Avatar and a few of the Warlocks were the oldest recognizable models (followed closely by Warp Spiders, Phoenix Lords, etc.).  They were circa 1991-1992.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 28, 2017, 11:10:42 PM
I was just thinking of those old farseer types. Goff Rockers don't count as they were OOP for years.

EDIT: Earliest date I can get on the classic servitors is 1993. I'm tempted to assault my WD collection to get it pinned down!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 28, 2017, 11:17:57 PM
(http://40.media.tumblr.com/1b65210810f76f0ebc5a004f8bf28d9b/tumblr_nnoov6OUXA1r1g40zo9_1280.jpg)

Then there's this pic, so they're pretty ancient.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 28, 2017, 11:25:33 PM
That Ragnar Blackmane is still available.  It looks like he was out in 92, along with the servitors.

The Avatar came out in late 92 or early 93 according to the catalogues - near the time of the Phoenix Lords.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 28, 2017, 11:31:19 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 28, 2017, 11:25:33 PM
That Ragnar Blackmane is still available.  It looks like he was out in 92, along with the servitors.

The Avatar came out in late 92 or early 93 according to the catalogues - near the time of the Phoenix Lords.

Yeah, they were released with the classic Wolf Priest originally. I'm sure my buddy had all those classic SW guys (I can't believe that Ragnar is still in production!) when we were in primary school (I'm currently 33!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 28, 2017, 11:39:17 PM
I think it's Ragnar. The warlocks on sale today are modified versions of the originals as far as I can tell. Ragnar definitely came before the Avatar.

Edit: I reckon December 1992 for either Ragnar or the Servitors, maybe both. That's going by the little covers in last months anniversary WD. ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 28, 2017, 11:47:31 PM
I've gotten minorly obsessed and from digging about a bit online the warlocks are 1990 but Mr Rae reckons they're not in their original state. Some guy on Warseer (I thought that site died?) says he stripped a classic servitor and it had '91 on the slot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 28, 2017, 11:52:08 PM
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99060209205_SnotlingsNEW01.jpg)

Hang on a ruddy minute....are a couple of those little blighters from the dark old ages of the eighties? The one with the net? The one throwing the puffball? The slingshot one?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 28, 2017, 11:58:52 PM
I'd question continuous sale on those. :D

Ragnar was definitely December 1992 (link) (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/White_Dwarf_156_%28UK%29), for rules anyway. I think maybe the servitors were earlier, but that's before my WD time, man, before my time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 29, 2017, 12:12:31 AM
You could be right, got caught up in all the excitement!  lol

Been trawling other forums, Dieselmonkey reckons the slotta base is the oldest thing in production....lol, I bet they're not using the 1980's injection mould though.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 29, 2017, 12:47:03 AM
The Warlocks weren't changed, but they ditched several of the original Warlocks (namely ones fielding laspistols) so the "earliest" Warlocks are no longer around.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 29, 2017, 01:07:36 AM
Ah yeah you're right, it's only the one at the back that is a modified version of the oldest set. But the other two are 93 anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 29, 2017, 01:16:21 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on June 29, 2017, 12:12:31 AM
You could be right, got caught up in all the excitement!  lol

Been trawling other forums, Dieselmonkey reckons the slotta base is the oldest thing in production....lol, I bet they're not using the 1980's injection mould though.  o_o

I think the ones i have right now are dated to last year.They may just change the date ,or they have a new base mould cut per every 10 or so sprue moulds to ensure base production can keep up with kit production.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on June 29, 2017, 03:08:29 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on June 28, 2017, 11:52:08 PM
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99060209205_SnotlingsNEW01.jpg)

Hang on a ruddy minute....are a couple of those little blighters from the dark old ages of the eighties? The one with the net? The one throwing the puffball? The slingshot one?

I had a look at the Stuff of Legends and the guy with the net was definitely on the snotling pump wagon in 1999. Also it looks like he was on the original c22 pump wagon as shown on a flyer from March 1987 (http://solegends.com/citc/c022snotlingpump/index.htm). This dates him before craftworld eldar by a few years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on June 29, 2017, 12:14:51 PM
I think the oldest models still current for 40k are the Ragnar Blackmane and the Eldar Avatar and Phoenix Lords (plus maybe a few Warlocks), as these are from the very end of the RT era/start of 2E era. The Servitors are a good spot too.

For Fantasy, I would have said Nurglings, Snotlings, and Teclis. However, the Nurglings were recently retired for plastic versions, and I'm not sure how available the Snotlings have actually been over the years. As for Teclis, he was replaced in 6E/7E with a new sculpt, but the old version was brought back for 8E - so again, I wonder if he counts.

Then you have all the models that were either much more corner-case or limited release. So the classic Jes Goodwin Chaos Space Marines (from 1990), and his Power Armour Variants series, Ork Goff Rockers, etc. Similarly a lot of very old Citadel monsters that have been variously available (usually from mail order) over the years too.

Edit: Oldest plastics are the Khorne Berserker Marines. I think these pre-date almost all the other plastic kits, except perhaps the Space Marine Bike. However, as the bike sprue was re-cut to add in wheels, backpacks, and shoulder pads, I would say it doesn't count!

Either way, it looks like they are pretty much all Jes' sculpts from what I can tell! :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 29, 2017, 12:35:00 PM
Someone might be able to confirm, but I'm pretty sure Ragnar was a new release in WD156, December 1992, while the servitors (along with the no longer available Iron Priest) were new releases in WD159, March 1993. I'm pretty sure the Avatar and Phoenix lords came later as I remember them being profiled in WD, and my first (and only remaining WD) was 160, though I bought 156 as a back issue a few months later.

So I put forward Ragnar as the oldest* continuously available figure. :D

There are older figures on sale like the snotlings, but I think there was a time when they weren't available.

Edit:* Oldest probably should read longest or something, as the servitors may well be dated 91 on the tab, while Ragnar is 92...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 29, 2017, 01:09:47 PM
Well, unless someone finds the release date of the servitors predates Ragnar then he must be the longest continually available figure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 29, 2017, 01:14:15 PM
Worth it.



Definitely worth it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on June 29, 2017, 01:23:04 PM
Ragnar is listed in the Green Citadel catalogue released in 1993 of all 1992 releases under Space Wolf Characters.

I'm going to have a look for the Servitors now...

Looks like 1992 also as they are in the same Green catalogue on Stuff Of Legends too (with the Iron Priest)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 29, 2017, 01:28:40 PM
Wait, wait, wait!

The Ragnar on the GW website doesn't have the original backpack!

Therefore, does he count as the original figure?

We need Norris McWhirter!

(Servitors are in the green catalogue too, under Space Wolves)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on June 29, 2017, 01:37:41 PM
Oops cross post!

Ragnar is resin now too, I mean shitecast, sorry. What about all the Imperial guard metals Tallarn, Mordian, Vallhallans? They have been around for ages too. Or did they dissapear for a bit? I know sometimes it takes a bit of digging to find stuff on the GW website...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 29, 2017, 01:45:03 PM
I'm sure Norris would allow changes of moulds and castings material.

Metal IG were definitely later, 94ish.

The catalogues are unreliable as several of the 'NEW!' items in WD160, April 93, are in the Green 92 releases catalogue.

Unless figures were released in 3 figure blisters first then listed as 'NEW!' a few months later when on sale individually.

Oh god, we'll never know! o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on June 29, 2017, 01:56:04 PM
...Unless someone has the relevant White Dwarf!... My Dad dumped all mine a few years back, along with the 2nd Edition 40k rule/codex/wargear books that were in the same pile!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on June 29, 2017, 02:05:16 PM
Over to you, Mr May. WD156 and 159, and a forensic check of all listings up to 18 months prior to those dates.

Of course, there are innumerable Oldhammerers who could stroll over to their overstocked shelves, pull out the relevant magazines and check for us, but they don't care, man! They don't care about anything beyond 19-fucking-91!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 29, 2017, 03:34:43 PM
Yeah, and I'd ignore the tabs on the figures feet solely because GW has a habit of "releasing" models years after they were originally designed/tested.  Some of the plastic kits in the past have been released a year or more after they were designed (release dates don't match the plastic production/design dates).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Humorous_Conclusion on June 29, 2017, 04:16:02 PM
Ragnar was released in White Dwarf 156 along with Ulrik the Slayer. This was part of the Space Wolf army list which was still 40K 1st edition. The Avatar and Phoenix Lords didn't come along until 2nd edition.

However, the Stone Trolls (now called Rock gut Troggoths) were released in White Dwarf 155.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on June 29, 2017, 04:26:14 PM
http://forum.oldhammer.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2911&p=34347&hilit=longest+continuous+production#p34347

The consensus there is that the snotlings were always availablçe in some form by mail order since 1986.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on June 29, 2017, 04:58:16 PM
Sorry Rea, just dropping in but on daddy duties today.

Good call on that stone troll above though!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 29, 2017, 08:19:07 PM
Quote from: westwaller on June 29, 2017, 01:37:41 PM
Oops cross post!

Ragnar is resin now too, I mean shitecast

It'll be resin not finecast. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: S_P on June 30, 2017, 03:25:16 PM
Interesting piece in the wire magazine about necromunda this month.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 30, 2017, 03:40:37 PM
The computer game?  Because the folks who did Mordheim (meh) are doing a computer game version of Necromunda.  There is also the rumour of a new boxed game (easy - they just make some ganger sprues and throw in the current terrain = done).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on June 30, 2017, 04:51:55 PM
Quote from: Elbows on June 30, 2017, 03:40:37 PM
There is also the rumour of a new boxed game (easy - they just make some ganger sprues and throw in the current terrain = done).

Is that still going? I thought Shadow War ended up being the 'new' Necromunda.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 30, 2017, 05:24:31 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on June 30, 2017, 04:51:55 PM
Is that still going? I thought Shadow War ended up being the 'new' Necromunda.

Necromunda is dated for later in the year AFAIK.
it's really easy to bring a game back if you build up a big base of players who are fimilair with the rules beforehand. Those players playing shadow wars right now are a test bed, given a taste of necromunda to use their existing miniatures with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 01, 2017, 01:51:05 AM
Hopefully they will also do what they are doing with Bloodbowl and bring back the metals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 01, 2017, 10:56:35 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 01, 2017, 01:51:05 AM
Hopefully they will also do what they are doing with Bloodbowl and bring back the metals.

Indeed, still would like to add a few more gangs to the collection, but I refuse to pay those inflated prices everybody seems to be asking now...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 01, 2017, 07:11:42 PM
Yself and some friends are heading to WHW in a few months (something we haven't done for a few years) and I notice in the stipulations now you must have painted and based models in order to use their tables. This has been the cause for some grumbles from some of the party (Not sure why we aren't going for three months and they only have to paint Shadow war kill teams!) But I think it's great. I used to hate seeing the mass of grey plastic on their nice tables.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 01, 2017, 07:39:36 PM
I've seen no shortage of complaints about this kind of stipulation with regard to GW stores, etc.  To me it makes sense - you are their mobile advertising while you're there.  They're letting you use their game space and terrain in exchange for being a billboard of the hobby.

Back around maybe 2004 I was visiting the local GW shop frequently.  Had a small Eldar army but more importantly the local GW was staffed by people I became friends with, including the manager.

At that point the corporate policy was no public gaming and only Thursday night "bring and battles" of 1,000 points - again with the 3-colours stipulation etc.  I had befriended an old likeable guy who happened to be a "damaged" Vietnam vet.  One of his few joys in life was getting to play some tabletop games, 40K being one of them.  I approached the store manager and asked if we could come in mid-day on Wednesdays and do some gaming.  He knew we both had fully painted armies and allowed us a couple hours during the week to make use of the store's tables and terrain (we'd push together tables and run quite large 2,000+ point games).

While this was against the wishes of the regional manager etc., it was simple to him.  If a potential customer came in he could show them the little 5 Marines vs 10 Orks starter demo that every store had...or he could show two players in the midst of a massive 8'x4' game w/ tanks, walkers, heaps of infantry - all painted nicely etc.  It was advertising the product far better than a demo game ever could.  We were not outlandish gamers and it was a 22 year old kid and a 55+ year old man.  We gamed like this for a week or two for several months until the gentleman ended up in a psychiatric hospital again --- but when we gamed we always had a dozen or more people swing by and watch the game while they were perusing the store.  Just good advertising.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 01, 2017, 08:27:56 PM
Oh, and just to put a damper on everything good and neat...a wild price hike has just appeared.  lol  Oh, and $35+ hero plastic kits, lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on July 02, 2017, 10:48:21 PM
Since this is the official GW thread, here's an idea ;) We are seeing so many members going back to 40k, so what about we create our own "official" forum Chapter?

It would be a team effort and the main objective would be to re-use old figures that are gathering dust. One member could do a tactical squad; another an assault one and so on.

We would have to agree to a paint-scheme; Chapter Name and someone would have to do the fluff part  lol

To get the ball rolling: as for the name I propose "Lead Adventurers" and I pledge a Tactical Squad of 10 Marines (bought used from Ebay, being stripped of paint right now).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on July 02, 2017, 11:21:26 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on July 02, 2017, 10:48:21 PM
We would have to agree to a paint-scheme; Chapter Name and someone would have to do the fluff part  lol

Most obvious colours are Rotting Flesh and Knarloc Green!

Which incidentally are the exact paints I overused and abused for a load of Nurgle chaos marines lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on July 02, 2017, 11:38:41 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on July 02, 2017, 11:21:26 PM
Most obvious colours are Rotting Flesh and Knarloc Green!

Which incidentally are the exact paints I overused and abused for a load of Nurgle chaos marines lol

Didn't thought of that, it matches the colors of the forum  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 02, 2017, 11:45:54 PM
Man...I'm so close!

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HkBX4zrc9IM/WShbh7gFqCI/AAAAAAAADYA/tT-FyL9S9LgMl6w2cqzVC3HtXmduHjTWgCLcB/s1600/AssaultMarines%2B%25284%2529.JPG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MYNKD on July 03, 2017, 12:05:22 AM
Quote from: Predatorpt on July 02, 2017, 10:48:21 PM
Since this is the official GW thread, here's an idea ;) We are seeing so many members going back to 40k, so what about we create our own "official" forum Chapter?

It would be a team effort and the main objective would be to re-use old figures that are gathering dust. One member could do a tactical squad; another an assault one and so on.

We would have to agree to a paint-scheme; Chapter Name and someone would have to do the fluff part  lol

To get the ball rolling: as for the name I propose "Lead Adventurers" and I pledge a Tactical Squad of 10 Marines (bought used from Ebay, being stripped of paint right now).

Lead Champions, maybe? Renowned for their reluctance to use more modern technology?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on July 03, 2017, 12:08:50 AM
Quote from: MYNKD on July 03, 2017, 12:05:22 AM
Lead Champions, maybe? Renowned for their reluctance to use more modern technology?

It sounds better than my idea. I vote for that one instead  :o Lead Champions it is  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on July 03, 2017, 01:28:02 AM
Anyone know the points cost of a regular tactical marine in 8th edition?
We need to do a comparison between a regular old marine and a primaris one(24 pts in 8th) to point out primaris marines for 7th edition ;)
Thanks,Pete
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on July 03, 2017, 07:12:51 AM
Quote
Lead Champions, maybe? Renowned for their reluctance to use more modern technology?

All their vehicles in bare metal? Because they acquire butt-loads of them. They just never seem to get around to painting them...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MYNKD on July 03, 2017, 07:48:53 AM
Quote from: fitterpete on July 03, 2017, 01:28:02 AM
Anyone know the points cost of a regular tactical marine in 8th edition?
We need to do a comparison between a regular old marine and a primaris one(24 pts in 8th) to point out primaris marines for 7th edition ;)
Thanks,Pete

Tactical Marine w/ Default Loadout (Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades) is 13 pts per model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 03, 2017, 09:20:58 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on July 03, 2017, 12:08:50 AM
It sounds better than my idea. I vote for that one instead  :o Lead Champions it is  ;)

Finally I know what chapter to paint my C100 marine squad, better not leave them
Another 25 years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on July 03, 2017, 10:14:49 PM
If we come up with a good colour scheme then I will paint up a squad of beakies from my Rogue Trader entourage in that scheme. I already decided on a scheme for my terminators so its too late for those.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 03, 2017, 10:32:44 PM
Lead Devils or the Leadbutts  :D.
Funny enterprise, won't join since I have barely anything with a traditional gun, let alone with bolters and laserthingies. Will see where this is going, of course  ;).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 04, 2017, 07:54:40 AM
There are several examples of people painting full plate armour by polishing and washing bare metal miniatures, so that might be a starting point...

So bare metal marines with forum-green shoulderpads, backpacks and helmets, black weapons and some lead rot around the feet?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 04, 2017, 08:34:39 AM
Yeah that won't work with plastic miniatures.....

I think some sort of forum green scheme with black weapons. Just need a chapter badge....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 04, 2017, 09:11:29 AM
Obviously. I've got an entire box of RTB01 marines lying about, everything still on sprue. I might well dedicate a few to something silly like this, and they'd be a plain tan plastic as opposed to shiny metal. Maybe the metal is just for officers and veterans then?

Just replace bare metal for bare plastic for the rank and file marines...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on July 04, 2017, 02:27:47 PM
The castle tower with the moon behind it for the chapter symbol?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 04, 2017, 02:41:28 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on July 04, 2017, 02:27:47 PM
The castle tower with the moon behind it for the chapter symbol?

Something like this?
The dreaded "lead tower"  lol

(http://i.imgur.com/OL1bhE7.png)


(I'm not a graphic artist and apologise to everybody's sensibilities)

EDIT:
Refined the shape a bit.

(http://i.imgur.com/16T5i3u.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on July 04, 2017, 02:48:39 PM
I like that tower/moon design.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 04, 2017, 03:42:43 PM
Quote from: weismonsters on July 04, 2017, 02:48:39 PM
I like that tower/moon design.

Thanks! It might need some more walls at the bottom to enhance the "looming" feel the top banner castle has, but I think it has potential.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MYNKD on July 04, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/062q1dH.png)

Beige - #f6f6d6
Dark Camo - #999966
Light Camo - #cccc99

Forum colours including hex codes.

Try it on the B&C Space Marine Painter? (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/smp.php)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 04, 2017, 04:45:25 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/DZgjfvF.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: weismonsters on July 04, 2017, 05:58:35 PM
Nice job guys.

Could we also an an actual camo-scheme as an alternative scheme for veterans of the Badab Wars or something?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MYNKD on July 04, 2017, 07:09:47 PM
Actually, what wars would the Lead Champions have gotten involved in? The Vestfalen Wars?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on July 04, 2017, 07:48:00 PM
So who's making Chapter Master Witchheimer?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 04, 2017, 08:41:09 PM
That's a good point...we'd have to establish Chapter positions for the major mods, etc.

Oh, and let's do a simple logo so that some of us who suck at painting can maybe swing it free-hand. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 04, 2017, 08:48:45 PM
Quote from: Elbows on July 04, 2017, 08:41:09 PM
That's a good point...we'd have to establish Chapter positions for the major mods, etc.

Oh, and let's do a simple logo so that some of us who suck at painting can maybe swing it free-hand. :D

Is that tower I did on the previous page too complicated for ya?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 04, 2017, 10:27:01 PM
I didn't see that one.  It's not super easy, but it's do-able.  The hardest part would be the white circle.  I'd be up for doing some kind of simple Space Marine squad in those colours.

Any thoughts on the veterans (white helmets?).  Sergeants, devastators, assault marines and their different colour helmets?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on July 04, 2017, 11:31:36 PM
I'm in with at least one guy.

He's primed as was going to be a Space Wolf ronin type. He can be a chaplain or something. I might have the drive to do a 5-man squad.

Maybe a painting-club type thread? I doubt this'll be as ridiculous as Angry Marines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 05, 2017, 12:32:39 AM
Since the colours are so close - I'm planning on tossing these guys inw ith my Chaos Marines when they get done.  If white helmets are cool I'm thinking of a full assault squad w/ MkVI armour jump packs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on July 05, 2017, 01:54:52 AM
Quote from: MYNKD on July 04, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/062q1dH.png)

Beige - #f6f6d6
Dark Camo - #999966
Light Camo - #cccc99

Forum colours including hex codes.

Try it on the B&C Space Marine Painter? (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/smp.php)

Now I just need to see Vallejo color equivalent to that so I start painting my squad  ;D

Quote from: YPU on July 04, 2017, 02:41:28 PM
Something like this?
The dreaded "lead tower"  lol

(http://i.imgur.com/OL1bhE7.png)


(I'm not a graphic artist and apologise to everybody's sensibilities)

EDIT:
Refined the shape a bit.

(http://i.imgur.com/16T5i3u.png)

Great work. Of course I can't freehand that, but that's a problem I'll see to later.

And to everyone that talked about the different painting schemes, I guess that some metal parts (aka "unpainted") would look great on the Lead Champions, lol. And Veterans with white helmets sounds good, not so keen on the Red for Sergeants and such but I'm still taking my first steps on the world of 40k.

weismonsters - I can't see any problem with having some alternate-scheme Marines. Like the Raptors Chapter, who changes its scheme according to the theater of war. If anyone wants to do different scheme, in different times of the Chapter's history, they are more than welcome.

Quote from: von Lucky on July 04, 2017, 11:31:36 PM
I'm in with at least one guy.

He's primed as was going to be a Space Wolf ronin type. He can be a chaplain or something. I might have the drive to do a 5-man squad.

Maybe a painting-club type thread? I doubt this'll be as ridiculous as Angry Marines.

It seems we have enough interest to warrant starting a topic? What do you guys say? And we still need a fluff writer who can cobble a story together and name some of our Chapter's characters - Chapter Master Witchheimer is as must, thanks, Vanvlak!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 05, 2017, 02:54:15 AM
I'd agree with a separate topic/hobby log.  The only thing I'm not sure of is which name we were planning on using.

EDIT: Perhaps a poll in the thread for the name of the chapter would be a nice start too.  Looking at one of the giant matrix pictures for the Space Marine chapters, the most common are:

Angels of ______
_____ Angels
_____ Hands
_____ Warriors
_____ Fists
_____ Templars
Sons of ______
_____ Legion
The Emperor's ______


There's actually a Chapter named Crimson Castellans who use a tower (red w/ white though).  At a glance I chuckled at "Lead Fists" and "The Lead Legion".  We could use the old military slang "Lead Farmers" :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on July 05, 2017, 04:50:40 AM
"Angels of Lead" and the "Lead Legion" sound hilarious. I've never painted a space marine in my life, although I think I have two or three lying around. This sounds like a lot of fun, though. So, what are those Vallejo paint equivalents?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 05, 2017, 08:17:32 AM
Only if we name our battle barge the Lead Zeppelin of course...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 05, 2017, 08:24:52 AM
I suppose if we are serious enough about this we could have decals printed.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 05, 2017, 08:32:11 AM
Oh we could.

But then I remember the Legio Bolter & Chainsword, which I helped create back in the day. We had decals printed too, and I still have the entire sheet in my decal box, completely untouched... ::)



And I know it has been mentioned before, but look at the change in perception 8th edition 40K has brought about. Take this thread and look at the complaints and rants of the posts in the first couple of hundred pages and compare them to the warm fuzzy posts we're having now, including the fact we're now contemplating creating our very own Space Marine chapter!

Quite remarkable, I'd say...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on July 05, 2017, 11:05:57 AM
I was happier with 40k until I saw the prices of the new Primaris 'one model' kits. Seems GW are back to business as usual  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on July 05, 2017, 11:23:20 AM
Yeah, well that's just the price for character mini's.
Can't expect them to drop prices now.
I just bought a harlequin sollitaire for 21 euro's   o_o
I mean, it's a nice model and all, but for 5 euro's extra I get a box of metal infinity mini's.
Needed it for shadow war, though so I caved....

That said, they announced those primaris reivers easy build models: 3 for 12 euro's.
That's not to bad. I think I'll pick up one of those, assuming 3 is enough for a squad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on July 05, 2017, 12:30:44 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on July 05, 2017, 01:54:52 AM
Now I just need to see Vallejo color equivalent to that so I start painting my squad  ;D
Okay. I'm colour blind - so this part of my reply should be taken with a long caveat.

I found:
http://encycolorpedia.com

Which can convert colours to Vallejo and Tamiya (and a whole lot of other paints). For the hex colour codes MYNKD gave, I have:

http://encycolorpedia.com/f6f6d6
Vallejo 70.928 (Light Flesh)
Vallejo 70.919 (Foundation White)
Vallejo 70.820 (Off White)

So I guess a flesh colour with a bit of white added.

http://encycolorpedia.com/999966
Vallejo 70.996 (Gold)
Vallejo 70.847 (Dark Sand)
Vallejo 70.791 (Liquid Gold)

Well - that's not going to work lol - too flashy.

The website gives Tamiya 80371, XF71 (Dark Green)

Vallejo's conversion chart:
http://cdn.acrylicosvallejo.com/5b001b2cd9766dd8ca5eb1d045ba8c75/vallejo-equivalence-2012.pdf

Doesn't give anything for Tamiya XF71. I think Vallejo 70.988 (Khaki) is a good match (though a dark green, like Vallejo 70.893 (US Dark Green) or Vallejo 70.894 (Russian Green) might be good to contrast).

http://encycolorpedia.com/cccc99
Vallejo 70.917 (Beige)
Vallejo 70.976 (Buff)
Vallejo 70.837 (Pale Sand)

Website gives Tamiya 80371, XF14 (JA Grey)

Vallejo's conversion chart:
http://cdn.acrylicosvallejo.com/5b001b2cd9766dd8ca5eb1d045ba8c75/vallejo-equivalence-2012.pdf

For XF71 gives Vallejo 70.971 (Green Grey) as any alternative. That doesn't look right.

So - short version is:
f6f6d6 - Vallejo 70.928 (Light Flesh) with some white to lighten it
(http://www.gnom-sklep.pl/miniaturka,3033.jpg)

999966 - Vallejo 70.988 (Khaki) with a little Vallejo 70.914 (Green Ochre) to lighten it
(http://www.gnom-sklep.pl/miniaturka,3153.jpg)

I thought Vallejo 70.893 (US Dark Green) with a little Vallejo 70.914 (Green Ochre) to lighten it would work, but it's too dark.
(http://www.gnom-sklep.pl/miniaturka,3133.jpg)

cccc99 - Vallejo 70.976 (Buff) with a little Vallejo 70.913 (Yellow Ochre) to lighten it
(http://www.gnom-sklep.pl/miniaturka,3158.jpg)

Quote from: Predatorpt on July 05, 2017, 01:54:52 AM
And to everyone that talked about the different painting schemes, I guess that some metal parts (aka "unpainted") would look great on the Lead Champions, lol. And Veterans with white helmets sounds good, not so keen on the Red for Sergeants and such but I'm still taking my first steps on the world of 40k.
Yeah - I think I will paint some parts gunmetal/silver.

Quote from: Elbows on July 05, 2017, 02:54:15 AM
The only thing I'm not sure of is which name we were planning on using.

EDIT: Perhaps a poll in the thread for the name of the chapter would be a nice start too.  Looking at one of the giant matrix pictures for the Space Marine chapters, the most common are:
Poll sounds good, or just a thread with who's in and preferred chapter name.

Quote from: Scurv on July 05, 2017, 04:38:43 AM
The smartass in me demands I say "Why not make it a nurgle chaos band, easier in terms of what it consists of due to the nature of chaos forces, the colours match perfectly as does the fluff. A bunch of stinky overweight creatures with bad skin match match both nurgle and wargamers rather well after all.  ;)
I'm thinking more like the Space Wolves or Raptors, etc. Every chapter has rules but these guys aren't as strict as sticking to them, resulting in a more of a mercenary feel.

Quote from: Hawkeye on July 05, 2017, 04:50:40 AM
"Angels of Lead"
I like this.

Quote from: Daeothar on July 05, 2017, 08:17:32 AM
Only if we name our battle barge the Lead Zeppelin of course...  lol
And this.

Quote from: Daeothar on July 05, 2017, 08:32:11 AM
And I know it has been mentioned before, but look at the change in perception 8th edition 40K has brought about. Take this thread and look at the complaints and rants of the posts in the first couple of hundred pages and compare them to the warm fuzzy posts we're having now, including the fact we're now contemplating creating our very own Space Marine chapter!
Totes. Look at how long this reply has become lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on July 05, 2017, 12:38:56 PM
I realise the US Dark Green is a little dark, I orginally thought it could work - but I've edited my two posts as I don't think it will.

Adding the swatch here again to see what it looks like in this post with the relevant background colour.
(http://www.gnom-sklep.pl/miniaturka,3153.jpg)

I also on the whole like YPU's scheme. I think we'll all be modifying it a bit though. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 05, 2017, 01:13:52 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on July 05, 2017, 12:38:56 PM
I realise the green is a little darker, but a few highlights will sort it out.

I also on the whole like YPU's scheme. I think we'll all be modifying it a bit. :)

I used the same hex codes given, basically to see how stuff would look in general on a marine, but I do like the way it turned out.

I have a squad of scouts to paint for shadow war, so I might as well go with this scheme!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on July 05, 2017, 01:15:56 PM
I have edited both posts. The Khaki works for me now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on July 05, 2017, 01:18:32 PM
von Lucky - thanks for taking the time and doing those conversions, I didn't knew about that site.  :o

Daeothar - the decals you mention, are they these ones? http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/files/file/171-legio-bolter-chainsword-chapter-marking-decal-sheet/

Printing decals sounds like a good idea - if we have enough interested people, lol.

Anyone care to open a topic? I don't know how to open a poll for the name of the chapter  :`
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on July 05, 2017, 02:01:36 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on July 05, 2017, 11:23:20 AM

I just bought a harlequin sollitaire for 21 euro's   o_o
I mean, it's a nice model and all, but for 5 euro's extra I get a box of metal infinity mini's.


Yeah but Corvus Belli do like to pass on the workload to the customer. How many hours work is it going to take to clean up and assemble them before losing the will to live and putting them back in the box?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 05, 2017, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on July 05, 2017, 01:18:32 PM
Daeothar - the decals you mention, are they these ones? http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/files/file/171-legio-bolter-chainsword-chapter-marking-decal-sheet/

Yup; those are the ones  :)

If I recall correctly, I actually have two full sheets of them because in the end I decided that going with a 'regular' Deathwatch squad would be preferable... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on July 05, 2017, 02:48:09 PM
I'm setting up a new thread now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on July 05, 2017, 03:44:42 PM
Done:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102072.0

Will edit first post as required.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on July 05, 2017, 03:45:51 PM
Quote
Yeah but Corvus Belli do like to pass on the workload to the customer. How many hours work is it going to take to clean up and assemble them before losing the will to live and putting them back in the box?

Sweet Jesus, I bought a new box of Aleph. I've cleaned them just to have some hobby time.
Now the assembly part............
Yeah, you have a point....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on July 05, 2017, 07:03:59 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on July 05, 2017, 03:45:51 PM
Sweet Jesus, I bought a new box of Aleph. I've cleaned them just to have some hobby time.
Now the assembly part............
Yeah, you have a point....

 lol It's 'fun' right?  o_o

Whilst the GW stuff might come in as many parts, those figures go together so easily and are enjoyable to build too. When I see a modern GW kit I want to put it together. When I see a baggy full of Infinity bits I want to buy the farm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on July 06, 2017, 05:15:55 PM
So right about infinity figures, I bloody hated building them
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MYNKD on July 06, 2017, 06:50:08 PM
Solakain Spearman Kitbashing video from Warhammer TV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYHy9Fq2HME&feature=youtu.be

It's nice to see kitbashing coming back into vogue at GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 06, 2017, 08:49:12 PM
Quote from: MYNKD on July 06, 2017, 06:50:08 PM
Solakain Spearman Kitbashing video from Warhammer TV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYHy9Fq2HME&feature=youtu.be

It's nice to see kitbashing coming back into vogue at GW.

Duncan is the hero we need, But maybe not the hero we deserve....

(They had a whole heap of people asking for a breakdown of his conversions on the skirmish live streams, So it's really nice that they're giving people the content they want.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 08, 2017, 12:53:01 PM
Pre orders are up. First strike looks like a must buy for me.
I really only want the pox walkers and marines, But at £25 it's a 15 saving on buying the 4 mini boxes you get, plus you get the rules/mat/ect ect.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 08, 2017, 09:20:18 PM
You know, I even look at the inflated NZ prices and for $65 I'm thinking this isn't too bad a deal. Tempted
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 08, 2017, 09:32:12 PM
And I just preordered my first GW stuff in a long time. $56 from Mightyape and I was getting some other stuff anyway so shipping wasn't really an issue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 09, 2017, 04:16:11 PM
I have also caved-in and pre-ordered first strike as I like the new bigger, cleaner Marines and the Nurgle stuff looks really good and for £25 proper good :o

I will mostly using the minis for Shadow Wars as standard marines, but as Crimson Fists I think?

The Nurgle models will make a good Chaos kill team

Luckily all my existing marines are few, and will be retired to space hulk 2nd ed. My unmade ones may become an inquisitor or three.

Plus of course some Lead Adventure Marines  ;D

M`mm what to do with Grey Knight Terminators?

All the best

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 09, 2017, 09:36:16 PM
The less-than-inspiring new Nurgle artillery vehicle...

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19959044_1379651872160519_7195443762540656206_n.jpg?oh=e9be7620af85b5b87d74387bb8c67f54&oe=59D25DA5)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 09, 2017, 10:11:31 PM
More commonly known as Nurgle's chode
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 09, 2017, 11:01:42 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 09, 2017, 10:11:31 PM
More commonly known as Nurgle's chode

Isha seems alright with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on July 10, 2017, 09:58:49 AM
I like it. Simple but looks good
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 10, 2017, 10:49:07 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 09, 2017, 10:11:31 PM
More commonly known as Nurgle's chode

Quote from: nic-e on July 09, 2017, 11:01:42 PM
Isha seems alright with it.

 lol


Without all the Nurgle-ish bits that tank looks like it might fit into an Iron Warriors army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 10, 2017, 06:10:12 PM
Never seen the point of siege/artillery units on the 40k tabletop. Quite uninspiring in terms of function, but I like that it isn't utterly caked in too much detail.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 10, 2017, 06:35:51 PM
Same reason they have fighters and bombers flying at 20' over a football pitched sized battlefield...to sell you models.  I see the same thing with games like Flames of War where there's zero reason to have that artillery on the board.

I can get over a siege gun and mortar (oddly I just made a scratch built tank much like this).  I wish they had better rules for bunkers/defenses and the use of actual siege guns.

Here's the only film (ever, I believe) of the Sturmtiger firing its 385(?)mm rocket propelled howitzer at a city in Poland I think.

(http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/26/45/ff/2645ff6cf3f10556ec38cbf6a96eda91.gif)

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on July 10, 2017, 07:21:23 PM
Wow looks like a fisher price toy
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on July 10, 2017, 07:28:02 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on July 10, 2017, 07:21:23 PM
Wow looks like a fisher price toy

To be honest, I think a lot of the new Nurgle stuff gives that impression, especially those Poxwalker things.
I do like that Drone thingy, though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 10, 2017, 08:03:48 PM
Let me put it this way...I was just starting a Nurgle theme Chaos Space Marine force when they announced Death Guard were coming back in ...March?  I was excited about the prospect of cheap starter-box plastics.  I haven't liked a single Nurgle model I've seen yet.  I will not likely be buying anything from their line - heck I've likely not even going to play Death Guard - just a Chaos Space Marine force.

 :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on July 10, 2017, 09:22:55 PM
I really like it to be honest, it's got a old school Epic Demon Engine flavour like the Khorne Doom Blaster.

Will I buy it? Maybe in a year when I can get it 2nd hand on ebay :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on July 11, 2017, 04:10:58 AM
i don't mind the design.  It fits the aesthetic of retro future tank and looks right moving forward with WW1 styled Plague Marines.  The problem for me is that it is a field piece.  Why bother?  It would look cool to my eye with a buboe/pustule turret dome with a close support weapon for an infantry support AFV which works for my conception of a Death Guard advance.  Leave this siege crap for the Iron Warriors.  Artillery is something I wish they would just leave off the field and simulate attacks from far away but then they couldn't sell models inappropriate to the scale of the battlefield.  I'd like one to convert somewhere down the road for the role I described but it's not on my buy soon list.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 11, 2017, 08:11:37 PM
It's bonkers if they don't do a Nurgle possessed tank kit. There's been brilliant Nurgle rhino/predator since day one pretty much. Would love to see an official conversion set full of pustules, rotting skin hatch covers, clambering nurglings, eyeballs and whatnot!

Daemon engines would be cool too, I always loved that seige tower type jobby in epic, some influences from Man O War's plague ships wouldn't go amis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 11, 2017, 08:20:10 PM
Just a thought but if the Rhino didn't look big enough for 10 old Space Marines, how the hell is it going to be big enough for the uber "true-scale" Primaris Marines?

Does that mean that the Land Raider will become the new transport of choice? At least the only one big enough for 10 Primaris.....

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on July 11, 2017, 08:30:40 PM
@Andrew May

I'm actually happy they kept it stock rather than "poxing" it up.  Nurgling things up with GS and spares is pretty easy compared to trying to remove molded festering to get a "clean" version.  I see the kit having cross comparability (As is it looks like it should have IW scrawled on it).  This way it's adaptable to any traitor forces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on July 11, 2017, 08:51:03 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on July 11, 2017, 08:20:10 PM
Just a thought but if the Rhino didn't look big enough for 10 old Space Marines, how the hell is it going to be big enough for the uber "true-scale" Primaris Marines?

Does that mean that the Land Raider will become the new transport of choice? At least the only one big enough for 10 Primaris.....

Glen

I seen it mentioned a couple of times that there will be Primaris versions of most things, so most likely a larger Primaris Rhino will be coming out, no doubt twice the size and 3 times the money cost hehe
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 12, 2017, 12:40:26 PM
Yeah, there aren't many decent model kits in 1:35 which are cheaper than GW kits.  Now stuff like the Land Raider (which is a large model), perhaps, but you have to find a stellar deal on a model kit to beat out a GW kit by any large margin.  Perhaps toy kits if you luck out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on July 12, 2017, 01:45:52 PM
Seems the Talisman rumor from earlier this year isn't going to lead to a new shiny edition in any way.

http://www.talismanisland.com/?p=8128 (http://www.talismanisland.com/?p=8128)

Part of me is glad as I've got all the 4th edition sets but I was hoping for something new from GW. I'd have loved it if they reprinted the 4th edition stuff but replaced the models with high quality versions (most in the games are utter crap sadly). Oh well, saves me money and at least keeps the nicest looking edition out there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on July 12, 2017, 05:21:45 PM
Quote from: Scurv on July 12, 2017, 05:14:40 PM
for cheap robots/walkers, Gundam and other japanese anime kits are massive savings. A dreadnought here is $74, that is over 10 gundam no grade kits or up to 6 or 7 high grades or 2 master grades. Get a 1/100 and you have a titan sized kit for $60.




Yeah but do you want to play 40K or Super Whizz Bang Transformo-Bots (don't mention Tau anyone  ;) )?  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on July 12, 2017, 05:41:47 PM
The body on that reminds me of the Battletech hard suit type infantry... what were they called? Nice work by the way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 13, 2017, 12:29:37 AM
Quote from: horridperson on July 11, 2017, 08:30:40 PM
@Andrew May

I'm actually happy they kept it stock rather than "poxing" it up.  Nurgling things up with GS and spares is pretty easy compared to trying to remove molded festering to get a "clean" version.  I see the kit having cross comparability (As is it looks like it should have IW scrawled on it).  This way it's adaptable to any traitor forces.

I mean like upgrade sprues for the chaos tanks to Nurglify them. One generic sprue and a tank specific for each would be cool. Imagine a predator turret sprue with different daemon faces wrapped around etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 13, 2017, 12:56:53 AM
It's worth pointing out that busted/used/unbuilt old hobby kits are around to be found for a lot cheaper than £20 whereas GW stuff tends to have a higher resale value.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on July 13, 2017, 08:16:02 AM
Kits and toys have always been used as fodder for 40K vehicles but I think it's really just a matter of how those things are 40K-ified to fit into the general aesthetic of the game world. Picking the 'right' pieces and converting them to fit in, great stuff, but just plonking down a Gundam robot and a toy dump truck might take some people out of the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 13, 2017, 08:18:15 AM
Quote from: Scurv on July 13, 2017, 12:39:28 AM
Why you would convert a detergent bottle into a hover tank is beyond me! Dude seriously, you are going to argue that you have to use official 40k stuff to play 40k? I use Gundams because I like them, the sort of person who objects to that sort of thing we don't play games with anyway.

What? That 30yr old conversion?  lol

Of course you don't have to use official minis to play 40k, just it might not be the right game for you if you're interested in saving money.  ;)

Edit: and what SCL said.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on July 13, 2017, 12:29:30 PM
Everybody involved, kindly turn it down a notch. Stat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 13, 2017, 01:42:36 PM
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/260/548/363.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 13, 2017, 01:49:11 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 13, 2017, 01:42:36 PM
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/260/548/363.jpg)

This one came up in a meme Page on Facebook a couple of days ago and caused a whole heap of confusion  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 13, 2017, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 13, 2017, 01:49:11 PM
This one came up in a meme Page on Facebook a couple of days ago and caused a whole heap of confusion  :)

As in 'about to crack open a cold one ... with the boys'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 13, 2017, 03:46:56 PM
Yep, this thread went full retard for a page or two.  Back to silly Space Things w/ guns.

(https://regimentalstandard.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/ultramartravelposter.jpg?w=760)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 13, 2017, 03:58:33 PM
Quote from: Shamash-Bel on July 13, 2017, 02:53:01 PM
I feel like this is the worst time to come into this thread. Hello, everyone! lol

Every now and then the pressures of modern life are released in a maelstrom of terror.

(http://media.giphy.com/media/ABgNxvbk95V3W/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on July 13, 2017, 05:52:09 PM
Well said. So please get back on topic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 13, 2017, 05:57:23 PM
Sorry guys.

So what's next for 40k Nurgle? I've seen leaked pics of a daemon force but looks like conversions and standard figures.

Adding to my earlier wish lists I'd love to see a Nurgle hellbrute type thingy, sized to fight that new Primaris dread. Would look great themed like the Deathguard, draped in mail dribbling maggots from every nook.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 13, 2017, 06:00:59 PM
There's a heap of stuff which has been spotted in the old leaks which has yet to come to fruition.  Expect multi-part Nurgle Plaguemarines, some form of plague terminators, Mortarion as a daemon primarch and I'd guess a few other kits. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 13, 2017, 06:14:27 PM
I was looking on the Forgeworld website yesterday (hovering over several items to buy  lol) but it seemed that a lot of the generic Space Marine models aren't there anymore?

I must admit it's been a few years since I visited but I suppose some of the older moulds have gone and they're not bothering to replace them?

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 13, 2017, 06:23:11 PM
Yeah, they've ditched a lot of decent products in the pursuit of more $90-100 dollar resin Primarchs for HH. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 13, 2017, 06:33:35 PM
Ah, I thought that might be the case  :(

Never mind, less for me to spend money on  lol

Although those new 'robots' look rather shiney  :D

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 13, 2017, 06:36:24 PM
So has anyone else seen the new disclaimer under the magmadroth that has been going around ?

If you buy it from the webstore you will instead be sent the start collecting fyreslayers box, for the same price. The full magmadroth kit plus a unit of 10 dorfs and some other thing.

Found it
(http://i.imgur.com/w1LmUN8.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 13, 2017, 09:02:58 PM
I hadn't seen that, but this price conflict has happened with a number of models.  There was a Lizardmen big beastie who was $85-90...as was the start collecting box which included a bunch of other models, etc.

As long as they price the stuff as it is, it's somewhat silly to have both of the boxes in productiong/being sold.  So order your Magmadoodle and sell off the extra fellas for some cash back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 13, 2017, 09:17:41 PM
I made this up as a joke...on a joke.  Some people may recognize the idea.  lol

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HOb2BZ63Df0/WWLVoMuiDdI/AAAAAAAADhw/QrKbXEt-j5YwJvXmi4ghXMbfsrMiBgTtACLcBGAs/s1600/RendingPony.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 13, 2017, 09:37:32 PM
Quote from: Elbows on July 13, 2017, 09:17:41 PM
I made this up as a joke...on a joke.  Some people may recognize the idea.  lol

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HOb2BZ63Df0/WWLVoMuiDdI/AAAAAAAADhw/QrKbXEt-j5YwJvXmi4ghXMbfsrMiBgTtACLcBGAs/s1600/RendingPony.png)

The pinnacle of space marine technology  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 15, 2017, 02:56:03 PM
Well the new AoS boxes are up fpr preordsr,and GW have officially dropped the price of the magmadroth.all of them have been relisted at £50 ,with the disclaimer that you also get a bunch of other stuff with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 15, 2017, 05:59:09 PM
Quote from: Elbows on July 13, 2017, 09:17:41 PM
I made this up as a joke...on a joke.  Some people may recognize the idea.  lol

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HOb2BZ63Df0/WWLVoMuiDdI/AAAAAAAADhw/QrKbXEt-j5YwJvXmi4ghXMbfsrMiBgTtACLcBGAs/s1600/RendingPony.png)


 lol ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 16, 2017, 10:30:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GFxX6Cz_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high)

More marines in high heels, I know they're models but I didn't realise they were catwalk models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on July 16, 2017, 10:34:45 AM
Urgh!
Not quite as bad as those Centurion things but I do not like this idea.
Almost like a cheap Power Rangers style of Cyclone missile launcher terminator mash-up.

I really think that GW are going further away from the original Marine aesthetic with each release.
This is going the way of AoS, I feel.
Which I, for one (and I may well be alone!), do not feel 'works'.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 16, 2017, 10:51:05 AM
Apart from the tippeetoe thing and the guns on guns on fists on guns I don't mind them per say, I mean they fit the Primaris aesthetic but I don't think they'll ever produce something as iconic as terminator armour.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 16, 2017, 11:05:26 AM
The middle one is even striking the 'pose'  lol

cheers

James
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 16, 2017, 04:13:39 PM
Yeah, nothing amazing about those.  I do like the helmets (with the Terminator-esque lower jowel-tusk/outlets), but they're really just better looking Centurions, which isn't saying much.  The more comic-booky "double guns for everything!" approach to modern GW styling still leaves a lot to be desired.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 16, 2017, 04:16:52 PM
Not big on those accessories either. Leave the walking tank look to the dreads I think. How do they even fire those wrist guns, given they're also wearing power fists?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on July 16, 2017, 04:25:59 PM
Quote from: jimbibbly on July 16, 2017, 11:05:26 AM
The middle one is even striking the 'pose'  lol

cheers

James

If he could pout, it would quite literally be "Blue Steel"  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on July 16, 2017, 04:26:51 PM
They must have a good save, they've even got schurzen armour for their vitals, these Primaris Marines think of everything >:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 16, 2017, 04:56:21 PM
They are wearing Gravis armour, same as the Captain.

They look as ridiculous as the Centurions. Which is pretty ridiculous
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on July 16, 2017, 06:41:43 PM
They are okay I guess, not that I'm going to be buying any
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on July 16, 2017, 06:49:54 PM
The things dangling at their crotch really mess up the proportions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 16, 2017, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on July 16, 2017, 06:49:54 PM
The things dangling at their crotch really mess up the proportions.

People tell me that at the swimming pool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on July 17, 2017, 02:21:03 AM
All those extra weapony bits make them look like bizarre mech-marines...not a fan.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 17, 2017, 03:46:04 AM
There is a lot of lazy going on with the recent wave of digital sculpts from GW.  They're...technically good or nice sculpts, but there is an overwhelming number of copy-cat poses, equipment, etc.  Also the somewhat childish "everything has twin guns everywhere!" is kinda weak.  I do think the death knell of Space Marine is ringing loud in the ears.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on July 17, 2017, 02:40:24 PM
Elbows, your spot on there
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 17, 2017, 03:37:34 PM
Umm, did they really need to give them Sporans with skull icon options?

Still the proportions legs/torso seem off, just don't quite look right. could they not just upsize/update terminator armor with a bit of new stylin' and be done with it?

Its not like they haven't made terminators bigger before

Waiting for the Prima  is Ballerina set to come out
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on July 17, 2017, 04:16:05 PM
The Prima Donna set? lol

I just wish they'd done the Primaris bigger so that they could begin to fix the scale of the normal marines. It's all over the place at this point, it's almost as bad as Infinity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 17, 2017, 05:23:43 PM
The design is actually based on a Goodwin skech that has been floating around online for years .I remember it coming up in a rumour thread on warseer back when A:warseer was a thing and B:before 5th edition.

Sorry to link to spiky bits but It's quicker than me going through the many steps of saving ect ect ect

https://spikeybits.com/2017/06/old-marine-concepts-becoming-new.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on July 17, 2017, 07:30:47 PM
Quote from: Shamash-Bel on July 17, 2017, 04:16:05 PM
The Prima Donna set? lol
If the new procedure can crack making women into marines, maybe they could upgrade Mad Donna Ulanti. She'd be a proper Primaris Donna.

Can't help thinking those armour sporrans would be awfully clanky, noisy and irritating.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on July 18, 2017, 03:39:04 PM
I like them myself. but then I'm one of the rare breed I guess.
much better than centurions and pretty much 90% of stuff to come out for AoS
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 18, 2017, 03:51:39 PM
Those new snapfit Poxwalkers look pretty ok for the money:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Etb-Death-Guard-Poxwalkers-2017
Might even pick up a box for use as some bloated post-apoc muties, never can have enought of those...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 18, 2017, 05:07:47 PM
We'll see. For a tenner/15 euro I'm willing to give it a try. Paint them dark and gritty, cut away what looks stupid and I'm sure they will look rather well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 18, 2017, 07:48:57 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on July 18, 2017, 03:51:39 PM
Those new snapfit Poxwalkers look pretty ok for the money:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Etb-Death-Guard-Poxwalkers-2017
Might even pick up a box for use as some bloated post-apoc muties, never can have enought of those...

I find them ok, but kind of boring.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on July 19, 2017, 09:58:31 AM
Quote from: Scurv on July 19, 2017, 09:52:25 AM
I did both and saw nothing alarming. Anitas review of Dishonored II was rather good actually. No one was butthurt that DII has a female villain although it was expressed the evil lynn trope was somewhat predictable and tired.

So where is the mass butthurt I am meant to be awed and alarmed by? I am just not seeing it. Care to point it out with examples?

And of course, no evidence will ever be enough. ::)

Let's just ignore people in this thread complaining about Dark Eldar villainesses.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Michi on July 19, 2017, 12:45:34 PM
Whoever wants to have the opposite sex of an existing model is always free to try a conversion, isn't it?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QvXr16XY4Qg/VoU9pIQgSYI/AAAAAAAAI00/B8nE_YzflyE/s1600/%255EKinderbilder%2B008.JPG)
I did rather often and I´m happy with it. Nothing easier than a head swap on a person in (power) armour...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 19, 2017, 12:54:53 PM
Quote from: Michi on July 19, 2017, 12:45:34 PM
Whoever wants to have the opposite sex of an existing model is always free to try a conversion, isn't it?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QvXr16XY4Qg/VoU9pIQgSYI/AAAAAAAAI00/B8nE_YzflyE/s1600/%255EKinderbilder%2B008.JPG)
I did rather often and I´m happy with it. Nothing easier than a head swap on a person in (power) armour...  ;)

Very nice! I would have assumed they were different sculpts entirely. Mind you,not enough skulls for this thread ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Michi on July 19, 2017, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 19, 2017, 12:54:53 PM
Mind you,not enough skulls for this thread ;)

Of course you´re right, but they were simply meant as examples. This is what I was essentially talking about:
Quote from: Michi
Nothing easier than a head swap on a person in (power) armour...

BTW: Wouldn't those particular superhuman marine steroids make a female jaw grow as well as a male's? In that case there wouldn't even be much difference in their facial physiognomies as well. I mean: You can't tell a male Tau from a female, can you - why wouldn't that apply to (super)humans (in armour) alike?   :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 19, 2017, 02:11:13 PM
I was just coming on here to say how absolutely amazing I think the new Daemonette sculpts are - they've absolutely nailed the androgyny Slaaneshi creatures are supposed to have in a way that none of the previous efforts have.

But I guess this isn't the thread for that at the moment   :'( Thanks to some ludicrous claims about the most prevalent form of bullying being bandied around earlier. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 19, 2017, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 19, 2017, 02:11:13 PM
I was just coming on here to say how absolutely amazing I think the new Daemonette sculpts are - they've absolutely nailed the androgyny Slaaneshi creatures are supposed to have in a way that none of the previous efforts have.

But I guess this isn't the thread for that at the moment   :'( Thanks to some ludicrous claims about the most prevalent form of bullying being bandied around earlier. 

New demonettes?

I'm not sure I've seen those.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 19, 2017, 02:24:21 PM
Oh well maybe they're not very new. The ones currently on sale in the GW website. I had not seen them before, but then I don't really look at the daemonic ranges much (in 28mm I game more in the RT era, before Chaos was a thing). Sorry if I was misleading and commenting on old news!

Anyway, they're excellent sculpts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 19, 2017, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 19, 2017, 02:24:21 PM
Oh well maybe they're not very new. The ones currently on sale in the GW website. I had not seen them before, but then I don't really look at the daemonic ranges much (in 28mm I game more in the RT era, before Chaos was a thing). Sorry if I was misleading and commenting on old news!

Anyway, they're excellent sculpts.

Just reboxedso that justifies the confusion:)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 19, 2017, 04:33:32 PM
See my reference on the other page as to why GW should totally not get involved in this silliness... lol

Does anyone have the "Know no Fear" box? I'm curious what the rulebook is like - hoping it's a softback option without all the extraneous junk.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 19, 2017, 07:38:45 PM
Found a "Know no Fear" unboxing video on YouTube - sadly the smaller rulebook does not include the full rules, so it's not a cheaper/smaller/softback option.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on July 19, 2017, 07:39:59 PM
I've had some Death Guard from the Dark Imperium box sitting assembled for almost a week now. Painting paralysis is atrocious. I want to paint them but I can't make my mind up on what and how.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on July 26, 2017, 04:52:46 PM
Well then, I hope everybody calmed down a bit.

I've been asked to re-open the thread and will do so provided you folks stay on topic, which is:


Thank you very much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 26, 2017, 05:17:06 PM
So while we were out gw released..

A cheesy 80' trailer for the new generals handbook with siege rules, alliance rules and a whole load of new content.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/25/game-changing-again/

Codex Space marines with preorders for the new dreadnought as well as teasers for a new chaplain and apothecary .

A new edition of Talisman and expansions out for Christmas.

rereleased the bloodbowl dice that sold out on release.


And for anyone that picked up the evning standard the other day there was an article in there about GW's amazing profits this year compared to previous years.


Oh, And Tom Kirby just left....
https://investor.games-workshop.com/2017/07/25/retirement-of-tom-kirby-as-non-executive-chairman/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 26, 2017, 05:30:23 PM
Yep, and the Space Marine codex is out in the wild being reviewed and gamed.  Some interesting choices (both good and bad).  A lot of hints at the beginning of the decline of normal Space Marines already.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on July 26, 2017, 10:02:16 PM
I played my first game of 40k 8th tonight and while not as fun as I find Bolt Action and Gates it was still a good hour of fun.

Will I go out of my way and drop other games in favour of it? No, Will I play it again? Yes I think I will.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 26, 2017, 10:12:56 PM
The trick is to adapt the unit activations to 40K (shouldn't be that hard) and find a person with a reasonable attitude akin to yours.  I think it's a good basis to "create" a solid game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on July 26, 2017, 10:21:28 PM
Quote from: Elbows on July 26, 2017, 10:12:56 PM
The trick is to adapt the unit activations to 40K (shouldn't be that hard) and find a person with a reasonable attitude akin to yours.  I think it's a good basis to "create" a solid game.

Honestly I think there's really no point for me in adding random activations in 40k as It's just easier to play Gates when I want  a sci fi game like that and 40k when I fancy something else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 27, 2017, 11:49:15 AM
Quote from: nic-e on July 26, 2017, 05:17:06 PM
So while we were out gw released..

A cheesy 80' trailer for the new generals handbook with siege rules, alliance rules and a whole load of new content.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/25/game-changing-again/

A new edition of Talisman and expansions out for Christmas.


Interesting. Still have to play my second AoS game, but the rulebook and general additions ( General's Handbook, Skirmish )  I'll keep collecting, so that goes for this one aswell. The specific Army/Scenario Books I'll pass on, one cannot have everything.
Talisman, never owned a copy so maybe this will be my first version.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: baldlea on July 27, 2017, 12:34:06 PM
Quote from: Elbows on July 26, 2017, 10:12:56 PM
The trick is to adapt the unit activations to 40K (shouldn't be that hard) and find a person with a reasonable attitude akin to yours.  I think it's a good basis to "create" a solid game.

Our group is considering this. We are completely sold on Bolt Action and Gates of Antares. The fact we have 40k figures into which we've put time and money means we keep an eye on 40k even if we haven't played for a couple of years. We also still like the background.

We just can't bring ourselves to play a Ugo Igo game anymore. That leaves us with using our figures for other rules systems (Pulp Alley, Clash on the Fringe etc. which we already do) or tweaking 40k to make it more like our beloved Warlord games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on July 27, 2017, 01:12:26 PM
Quote from: baldlea on July 27, 2017, 12:34:06 PM
Our group is considering this. We are completely sold on Bolt Action and Gates of Antares. The fact we have 40k figures into which we've put time and money means we keep an eye on 40k even if we haven't played for a couple of years. We also still like the background.

We just can't bring ourselves to play a Ugo Igo game anymore. That leaves us with using our figures for other rules systems (Pulp Alley, Clash on the Fringe etc. which we already do) or tweaking 40k to make it more like our beloved Warlord games.


This. I used to be a massive WHFB fan and played it all the time, even going to tourneys. Eventually that died off and I moved house to a more remote area so played less, fewer players around. When I did find a gaming buddy he was more into historical so we both tried the other side of the fence games. Now I find I prefer other games rules - Saga, Bolt Action, Antares, etc. Warhammer seems so clumsy and clunky and, well, pretty dull really. I just use my huge collection of fantasy figures in other rules systems. At one time I never thought I would stop playing WHFB, absolutely loved it. Now, I can't imagine ever playing it again, I enjoy other systems far, far more.

I guess the moral of the story is to be less dogmatic, try something new rather than sticking with the same old, same old.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 27, 2017, 01:33:04 PM
I'm in the same boat as you guys.  While I play a bit of 8th, my true heart lies with 2nd and with our revisions which introduced alternating activations.  I'm looking to do some alternate types of Warhammer 40K games with the local group - we're going to be doing a general's overview (where a commander in a separate room is issuing short orders based on poor feedback during the game, etc.).  Anything to change up the monotony of the basic 40K game. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 27, 2017, 01:41:11 PM
@ Nord:

Same thing happened to me. Once I played other games (Warmachine in my case), the way GW writes rules and balances games just seemed to be not very good.

For example, I used to *love* Necromunda despite it's poor balance; then my friend and I played Infinity pretty thoroughly, and when I finally returned to Necromunda, it felt flat and dull by comparison (gameplay-wise, as background-wise I still love it).

Gradually found the same thing with most of the other "big rule" GW games too, and I think only some of the boardgames, BFG, and Epic have actually stood up well over time.

On the other hand, I have discovered lots of other games that I really enjoy now, so that's a pretty good outcome I feel. I still dabble in GW games, but I find their models to be waay superior to their games (generally speaking! ;)). When I do play GW games nowadays, it's purely for nostalgia reasons rather than because the games are inherently good.

Quote from: Elbows on July 27, 2017, 01:33:04 PM
[..] we're going to be doing a general's overview (where a commander in a separate room is issuing short orders based on poor feedback during the game, etc.).  Anything to change up the monotony of the basic 40K game. 

So... Kreigsspeile then? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 27, 2017, 03:17:53 PM
I'd like to try Necromunda with alternate activation actually.  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 27, 2017, 05:58:26 PM
Well I folded and have the First Strike boxed set, and I have now ordered the Know no Fear boxed set and a couple of months ago I got the Shadow War: Armageddon rulebook.

I've barely bought any GW for years, what's bloody going on lol

But I know one thing, no more baby marines for me o_o

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 27, 2017, 06:09:28 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on July 27, 2017, 03:17:53 PM
I'd like to try Necromunda with alternate activation actually.  8)

Try it with Bolt Action-style activation maybe? That way it's a bit more tense than alternative activation or IGOUGO.

Also, I think that any model should always have a free shoot reaction if targeted (i.e., shot at or charged), and only Overwatch allows you to shoot at an activating model freely (regardless of whether the Overwatching model was targeted or not). That way there is a bit more risk to certain actions, and combined with the activation mechanic suggested above can produce much more interesting games.

Of course, you're still saddled with D6, but at least with the above changes the game feels more risk-reward than the original version. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 27, 2017, 06:35:56 PM
Yep, you can make almost any game 10x more intriguing by throwing poker cards at it.  I particularly enjoy the system I use in Shoot N' Skedaddle where each character on the table activates on two cards --- meaning there's even more calculating involved (and the rare instance when a character activates twice in a row).

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 29, 2017, 12:41:40 AM
I have to say things have indeed changed...a few years ago I was praising warlord as a great/friendly company and had abandoned GW...now GW are on the rise and im finding that as warlord have gotten bigger they have become more GW-like.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on July 29, 2017, 01:57:06 AM
First time I've posted in this thread; and largely because of it I have just had a massive Forgeworld/GW splurge,for my Inquisimunda progect...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 29, 2017, 04:45:35 AM
Hopefully you don't feel too unclean as a result lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on July 29, 2017, 07:12:26 AM
@Kommando_J
 
Competition is healthy.  We all must enjoy it to some degree or we wouldn't be playing toy soldiers (Though I confess to enjoying painting them more than playing with them :D ).  It's good for game companies too.  There are more games and companies producing them than there were a decade ago.  The influx of new ideas (or well recycled ones) that come from new voices also encourage the major players to reconsider what they are producing as well as how they are relating to their consumers.  The only downside is that it's even more difficult for me to stay focused on a single project with so many possibilities out there.  I even want to give ACA Star Fleet a go in the near future.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 29, 2017, 07:32:00 AM
Yep, im a butterfly as it is but seeing everyone have all that blanchitsu/inq28 fun...im tempted back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Agis on July 29, 2017, 09:53:41 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on July 27, 2017, 03:17:53 PM
I'd like to try Necromunda with alternate activation actually.  8)

Maybe try this:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102330.0
 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 29, 2017, 11:43:07 AM
Quote from: Agis on July 29, 2017, 09:53:41 AM
Maybe try this:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102330.0
 ;)

Cool thanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 29, 2017, 11:47:06 AM
Quote
The Repulsor is so heavily armed and armoured that is doesn’t skim over the landscape but instead crushes the ground below it. The tank grinds forward with a deep bass thrum, reducing rock to gravel and fallen bodies to smears of gore and powdered bone.

40k fluff or thrash metal lyrics?
Also wow at the prices of the preorders but entirely expected.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on July 29, 2017, 12:02:24 PM
I am tempted by that chaplain, despite the price.

Also, check out this version of the new dread. The pose sells the model so much better than the one in the online shop.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveBowerman8/status/891033369072586753 (https://mobile.twitter.com/SteveBowerman8/status/891033369072586753)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 29, 2017, 12:14:37 PM
Yeah chaplain is nice, I like the stormcast vibe, great greaves.
Nice dread pic too, I'd like to see more dynamism in the close combat arm though. I think the smurf one is deliberately posed like the old one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on July 29, 2017, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on July 29, 2017, 11:47:06 AM
Also wow at the prices of the preorders but entirely expected.

Indeed!
 :o :o

I was seriously tempted by the Librarian, and that Chaplain is great too, but that price for a single plastic model is a bit strong for my liking. Lovely figures, though.

I could just convert my own from bits that I have already.
That makes more sense to me.
 :D



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 29, 2017, 05:47:13 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on July 29, 2017, 11:47:06 AM
40k fluff or thrash metal lyrics?
Also wow at the prices of the preorders but entirely expected.

That's pretty badass.

I'm surprised by the price of the Repulsor to be honest, I was expecting at least £60 and possibly £70 .£50 is alot but when you consider that a land raider is only £5 less it isn't too bad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 29, 2017, 11:00:16 PM
Quote from: nic-e on July 29, 2017, 05:47:13 PM
That's pretty badass.

I'm surprised by the price of the Repulsor to be honest, I was expecting at least £60 and possibly £70 .£50 is alot but when you consider that a land raider is only £5 less it isn't too bad.

...I remember a time when land raiders cost £30 and I considered that dear.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 29, 2017, 11:51:58 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on July 29, 2017, 11:00:16 PM
...I remember a time when land raiders cost £30 and I considered that dear.

I remember getting the landraider for my birthday back when it was £30 ,going into school and being able to use the box cover as a certificate of badassery to all my friends.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 30, 2017, 01:14:23 AM
Same, although for me it was my mad notes Night goblin boxed set(remember that?) although everything truly changed the day my bud Nick brought in something for me to borrow...the Mordheim rulebook.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 30, 2017, 02:42:15 AM
I have been told by the guys on the warhammer facebook page that the repulsor does have interior detail. IT has a detailed floor, seating and control panels with an internal bulkhead leading to the engine and cockpit.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 30, 2017, 08:31:44 AM
I also expect it's much larger than it looks when presented by itself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on July 30, 2017, 09:15:52 PM
After some interesting poses in the starter box, GW's sculptors have retreated to their squatting, legs akimbo safe space. :(

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Primaris-Hellblasters8cds.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on July 30, 2017, 09:23:17 PM
See I really want to like these Primaris Marines but they are just too damn clean cut and neat (Not the paint job but the sculpt) much like the Mk.7 but taken too the extreme.

I wish they looked more gritty like Mk.3, Hmmm I may have to do some helm and pad swaps with Mk.3 and see if that helps.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on July 30, 2017, 09:27:30 PM
Quote from: Chico on July 30, 2017, 09:23:17 PM
See I really want to like these Primaris Marines but they are just too damn clean cut and neat (Not the paint job but the sculpt) much like the Mk.7 but taken too the extreme.

I wish they looked more gritty like Mk.3, Hmmm I may have to do some helm and pad swaps with Mk.3 and see if that helps.

I concur. So I did.

(http://i.imgur.com/WAJU241l.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on July 30, 2017, 09:45:51 PM
Great minds think alike eh?

That helps alot they lot good mate, now I'm thinking MK.3 helm and pads, plus switch out the backpack to the more classic Mk.4 :)

I got a feeling this'll get expensive fast hehe
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 31, 2017, 01:02:52 PM
Leaks around about new basing kits. Sprues of vines and bracken in flexible plastic (pvc?) and a pack of 300 skulls.... lol self parody yes but come on, they should have done that years ago. I'm 100% buying a set.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on July 31, 2017, 01:33:05 PM
Oh, they have sold packs of skulls before - that's nothing new really. ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 31, 2017, 01:50:11 PM
But a pack of over 300 plastic skulls?  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reed on July 31, 2017, 01:50:49 PM
In the grim darkness of the 41st millenium, everything needs more skulls. MORE.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on July 31, 2017, 07:50:11 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on July 31, 2017, 01:02:52 PM
Leaks around about new basing kits. Sprues of vines and bracken in flexible plastic (pvc?) and a pack of 300 skulls.... lol self parody yes but come on, they should have done that years ago. I'm 100% buying a set.  o_o

Flexible plastic vines....I'm curious. Where's the rumour from?

As for the skulls...I've never actually had a need for skulls and if i did I have enough of a GW bits box that I could probably restart civilisation with plastic skulls acting as currency , but if they're nice I may look into it.

(Ignore me, I just found it.The vines look great and will be a must buy!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 31, 2017, 09:02:16 PM
I'd probably get some skulls if they are cheap enough lol
I really want to make a skull obelisk.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 31, 2017, 09:28:09 PM
I wonder how the vines etc will handle paint though? Wouldn't want someone's GD entry suddenly flaking paint at the slightest touch!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 01, 2017, 12:33:15 AM
I just received my first box of GW stuff in a long time. The new small boxed set of marines and Nurgle guys. I only gave it a slight lookin because my Reaper Bones 3 stuff arrived the same day... in a box 10x the size .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 03, 2017, 10:31:32 PM
GW must be having fun watching the reaction to this one. Lots of wild speculation about what the code means...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/03/incoming-transmission-b50-ap78903mh-aug-3gw-homepage-post-4/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/03/incoming-transmission-b50-ap78903mh-aug-3gw-homepage-post-4/)

Seems to me '78903' most likely refers to September 1987. 30 years of 40k. No idea on the rest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 03, 2017, 10:45:47 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on August 03, 2017, 10:31:32 PM
GW must be having fun watching the reaction to this one. Lots of wild speculation about what the code means...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/03/incoming-transmission-b50-ap78903mh-aug-3gw-homepage-post-4/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/03/incoming-transmission-b50-ap78903mh-aug-3gw-homepage-post-4/)

Seems to me '78903' most likely refers to September 1987. 30 years of 40k. No idea on the rest.

If they aren't having fun then I am! Dakka dakka and /tg/ are tearing each other apart over a thousand different theories, all of them with no grounding and all of them willing to die for their theory.
I'm starting to wonder if this new openness from GW is actually a way to subversivley purge the internet of That guys by giving them stress heart attacks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 03, 2017, 11:47:44 PM
The galactic coordinates idea is my favourite. lol

RT03 squats were first featured in the September 87 flyer...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 04, 2017, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: Chico on July 30, 2017, 09:23:17 PM
See I really want to like these Primaris Marines but they are just too damn clean cut and neat (Not the paint job but the sculpt) much like the Mk.7 but taken too the extreme.

I wish they looked more gritty like Mk.3, Hmmm I may have to do some helm and pad swaps with Mk.3 and see if that helps.

Actually, it's completely fluffy for them to be so cleancut.

Remember that during the Great Crusade, technology was on the rise and there was little of the gothic and grimdark we associate with 40K now. I remember reading that the Stormbird transport was a beautifully designed graceful and streamlined craft. Due to the many losses and expensive and lengthy manufacturing process, it was eventually replaced by the Thunderhawk; an ugly flying brick, all angles and functionality; nothing cleancut about it.

The subsequent Space Marine armor types reflect that, with the high(low?)light of the range being the Mk5 of course. And when Mks 6 and 7 were being deployed in numbers, the whole Imperial Cult was already (being) established, so the gothification of, well, everything had already begun. And this obviously included Space Marine armor.

So when Guilliman returns, his mind still firmly in the post Horus Heresy, a throwback to a pre-Heresy way of thinking is only natural. He wants to rekindle the Great Crusade, so having Marines that reflect this mindset is only to be expected... :)

Also; I remember the 3rd edition plastic multipart marines being released (and also the 2nd ed. mtetal Marines for that matter), and they were pretty cleancut too. Yes; there were bits to hang off belts etc, and the multipart aspect sparked a huge conversion wave, but in essence, they were pretty cleancut.

I can't say I really like the whole idea of Primaris Marines, but the fluff justification is alright, and the models themselves are cool. The only thing bugging me is that my 3 existing Space Marine armies are becoming obsolete (which is not an issue at all really, as I won't play 40K outside my group of friends anyway ::) ).

But look at me; having an actual Space Marine rant, after being clean for almost 7 years... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 04, 2017, 12:20:51 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on August 04, 2017, 11:30:00 AM

Actually, it's completely fluffy for them to be so cleancut.

Remember that during the Great Crusade, technology was on the rise and there was little of the gothic and grimdark we associate with 40K now. I remember reading that the Stormbird transport was a beautifully designed graceful and streamlined craft.

The subsequent Space Marine armor types reflect that, with the high(low?)light of the range being the Mk5 of course. And when Mks 6 and 7 were being deployed in numbers, the whole Imperial Cult was already (being) established, so the gothification of, well, everything had already begun. And this obviously included Space Marine armor.


I think you have your Mk's mixed up a tad, Mk.2 Crusade armour and Mk.3  Iron Armour is rather gritty and boxy, these were the suits used for the Great Crusade.

Mk4 came just as the HH started and was the perfect suit (Fluff wise) but didn't  combine well with the earlier suits. Mk.5 is the bastardised  armour which were just thrown together during the Hersey (Again this was reconned at one point by GW, no idea if it still stands). Mk.6 Beakies for me is where everything started becoming too clean cut and less brutal looking.

As I said I wish the new Marines were in Mk.3  as that's the most gritty (Not once did I say grimdark though :P)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 04, 2017, 01:00:17 PM
Trust me; I don't mix up my Armor marks...  lol

I never saw the Mk2 and 3 as 'gritty'. They were also clean during the Crusade (as in; no skulls, eagles, purity seals (obviously they did have oaths of Moment) or gothic elements, tabbards etc etc.)

Yes, they were segmented, but that's not the same as gritty. Everything during the Crusade was at the pinnacle of technological advancement, built for both function and aesthetics. Few would argue that Roman Lorica Segmenta armor was anything but cleancut for instance.

Mk5 I can actually see as 'gritty' because of the circumstances in which it was created; everything was falling apart and supplies and materials were scarce.

But (almost) everything before the Codex Astartes (on the loyalist side) IMHO is clean... :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 04, 2017, 01:39:17 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on August 04, 2017, 01:00:17 PM


I never saw the Mk2 and 3 as 'gritty'. They were also clean during the Crusade (as in; no skulls, eagles, purity seals (obviously they did have oaths of Moment) or gothic elements, tabbards etc etc.)



All comes down to how you personally define the term gritty I guess, I feel Mk.2 and 3 are gritty as it's all rivets and exposed cables and wires, not many bells and whistles. Gritty to me isn't Grimdark or Gothic, just like to me Necromunda is gritty and not Grimdark (God I hate that word heh). Clean to me is smooth shapes and lines and everything covered up all prim and proper.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 04, 2017, 03:09:49 PM
Yeah, I agree; it's all subjective and open to interpretation I guess. :)

When I read the first three installments in the Horus Heresy books, I got the distinct impression that the hight of the great Crusade was all shiny and glittering, the sky (galaxy) was the limit and humanity was reaching new heights of technological, artistic, social and military achievements.

And 'clean' suits of armor, as well as ships, planes, tanks, you name it, were part of that grand vision.

Mk1 was a relic from the reunification wars in the Sol system, developed from the suits that Terra's technobarbarians wore, so probably not as clean and tainted by the memory of the time that came before.

But the Mk2 armor, developed especially for the Legions sent out to bring the Emperor's light to the Galaxy; that was a symbol of hope and a bright future! It was notoriously difficult to repair and clean though, so I suppose that could contribute to it being 'gritty'.

Mk3 was created out of a practical consideration; more armor in the front, for close quarter fighting onboard ships and in the tunnels of Squat homeworlds. If anything, those extra plates on the front made it look decidedly cleaner of course; no more seperate bands of armor.

Mk4 was developed during this time and is considered to be the most sophisticated of armor types, and hence the most 'clean'. Although the fact that Horus had his (soon to be) traitor Legions supplied with them first does throw a bit of a shadow over that I feel. Still; it has always been my favorite, just edging ahead of the Mk6, mostly because of its cool helmet... ::)

Now, Mk5, I consider to be a truly 'gritty' armor type. It was a stopgap measure; too few Mk4 suits were available to the Loyalist Legions (thanks to clever logistic planning by Horus), and the Mk6 and 7 wer  still in development and unavailable. So they used parts from any armor type available, and I understood that not two suits were exactly the same. It's full of 'Molecular Bonding Studs', to keep the layers of the armor plates together for lack of better (and lengthier) methods. And they were in a hurrry too. And considering the times of upheaval and decay into which it was born, I'd consider this to be the 'grittiest' of all marks.

M6 has always been pretty clean to me, mostly because of the RTB01 beakies, which had very little in the way of adornments, and whilst squating as if they had the extra spicy curry last night, the suits were looking very 'clean' and uncluttered. Much more so than the Rogue Trader Mk6 metal minis, which had all kinds of grittiness all over them. Still; the 2nd and 3rd ed metal adn plastic beakies were quite 'clean' as well. Only later on, from 5th edition and on, did they become more and more cluttered and grimdark.

Mk7; pretty much the same as Mk6, but substitute the RTB01 minis with Strike Force ones, and you're there.

And Mk8. Oh Mk8; why did we see so little of you? Still; the first two metal ones were pretty clean, reaching the same levels of technological advancement as the Mk4. And the one on the plastic sprues never was a real mk8, now was it? At least it was not cluttered into looking like a walking shrine, like its Mk6 and 7 compatriots... ::)

Enter the Primaris; I give it to you; it's the 'cleanest' of all armors, and it certainly looks the part. But that only reinforces my idea that they're there to respark the light of the Great Crusade. Then again; their first vehicle just looks like a floating Rhino and Landraider hybrid; not 'clean' at all...

And maybe it's just because it's so tall, and that leaves more flat/blank areas of armor, instantly making it look 'cleaner' ?

So; where was I going with all of this? I sort of forgot; my long dormant and presumed dead Space Marine Fanboi Gland took over there for a bit, all cuddly and elaborating about Space Marine armor types. It feels wrong, but also, so right and liberating... lol

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/1b/1b31a7473fed320aab61fc0e93158176a1ef09de4156ba7e3c718e5999d700fb.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 04, 2017, 07:20:01 PM
Thats why I like the new primaris jobbies, clean and uncluttered,  like it should be lol

now what chapter to do, can't decide o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on August 04, 2017, 07:50:52 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on August 04, 2017, 07:20:01 PM
Thats why I like the new primaris jobbies, clean and uncluttered,  like it should be lol

now what chapter to do, can't decide o_o

Why not this one? http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102072.0

I know you suggested another name for the chapter but... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 04, 2017, 09:39:24 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on August 04, 2017, 07:50:52 PM
Why not this one? http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102072.0

I know you suggested another name for the chapter but... ;)

And some of my midget marines will be Lead Legion  lol

I have decided on the Vorpal Blades as my Primaris chapter name

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on August 04, 2017, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on August 04, 2017, 09:39:24 PM
And some of my midget marines will be Lead Legion  lol

I have decided on the Vorpal Blades as my Primaris chapter name

Glen

Any connection to these guys? http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vorpal_Swords  When I was deciding on my Chapter, it was a draw between these and the Raptors (in the end, the Raptors won).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 04, 2017, 10:33:45 PM
No connection as far as I know, but they will be catachan green with crossed bare cavalry sabres and will have the union flag on their armour somewhere, and as I wanted a UK connection vorpal as coined by Lewis Carroll was a good place to start as any :)

Herne's Hunters was another possibility :o

Thanks Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on August 04, 2017, 10:48:36 PM
I'm guessing a Jabberwocky is their symbol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 05, 2017, 06:40:14 AM
Quote from: von Lucky on August 04, 2017, 10:48:36 PM
I'm guessing a Jabberwocky is their symbol.

no, far beyond my painting or drawing skills unfortunately lol

but crossed bare cavalry sabres will be, hence the blades bit in the chapter name

G
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on August 05, 2017, 11:11:18 AM
I had an odd idea for a space marine force, ive a few old rogue trader era space marines that i've never used due to scale but compared with primaris its not so bad...so was thinking the shattered remains of a chapter(represented by rogue trader era marines) reinforced by new primaris marines?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 05, 2017, 11:49:50 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on August 05, 2017, 11:11:18 AM
I had an odd idea for a space marine force, ive a few old rogue trader era space marines that i've never used due to scale but compared with primaris its not so bad...so was thinking the shattered remains of a chapter(represented by rogue trader era marines) reinforced by new primaris marines?

And I say go for it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 05, 2017, 12:17:09 PM
This is something that I never thought would happen, but I have ordered some AoS figures, Stormcast Eternals and Khorne stuff, which I previously thought were ludicrously like bad 80's toys.
 :o :o :o

I have had an idea of how I want to use them for a 'fun' project for a while now and it has now gotten to the point where I am going to give it a go.
 :D


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 05, 2017, 12:45:40 PM
Quote from: Mason on August 05, 2017, 12:17:09 PM

I have had an idea of how I want to use them for a 'fun' project for a while now and it has now gotten to the point where I am going to give it a go.
 :D

FUN, with a GW product? Get out of here!  >:(

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 05, 2017, 08:18:05 PM
Quote from: Mason on August 05, 2017, 12:17:09 PM
This is something that I never thought would happen, but I have ordered some AoS figures, Stormcast Eternals and Khorne stuff, which I previously thought were ludicrously like bad 80's toys.
 :o :o :o

At first I hated them - they were the final stage in GW's World of Warcraftification of the Old World. As time's gone by, I've come to appreciate AoS as its own thing, rather than compare it to the Old World I was nostalgically a bit too attached to. So, now I like most of the AoS stuff. It's ridiculous power metal fantasy, but that's part of the fun!

Though I must admit I utterly hate the "Khorgorath" from the starter set, there's no redeeming thing about that model. Its presence cheapens the rest of that box set!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 05, 2017, 09:24:19 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 05, 2017, 08:18:05 PM
At first I hated them - they were the final stage in GW's World of Warcraftification of the Old World. As time's gone by, I've come to appreciate AoS as its own thing, rather than compare it to the Old World I was nostalgically a bit too attached to. So, now I like most of the AoS stuff. It's ridiculous power metal fantasy, but that's part of the fun!

Though I must admit I utterly hate the "Khorgorath" from the starter set, there's no redeeming thing about that model. Its presence cheapens the rest of that box set!

Have no fear, I completely agree with you on all counts.
I have just decided to embrace the rather ridiculous aesthetics and make use of them, although there will be a fair bit of conversion work involved.
I have a plan!
 ;)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 05, 2017, 10:32:13 PM
Well the latest theory is that that teaser video GW put out and their latest rumour engine post are actually build up for the return of the squats, and you know what?
It kind of makes sense!

Apparently the code relates to the code of the old squat/guard weapon sprue and sections of the video text when added to the warhammer community URL lead you to articles about dwarves.


This article break it down (in spanish)
https://www.lavozdehorus.com/vuelven-los-squats/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 05, 2017, 11:43:12 PM
Just saying I predicted it back here http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=87573.msg1080881#msg1080881 lol
It would be good to see if squats came back. Not a fan of them but loads of people were. I won't hold my breath to see if it is true though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 06, 2017, 08:45:21 AM
I doubted they would bring back both Ad Mech &  'Stealer Cult and they did, so maybe Squats coming back might happen.

It may just end up being plastic Death Korps, which in itself isn't a bad thing either :D.

Myself I wanted it too be Blood Axes though hehe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 06, 2017, 10:22:32 AM
Yes, I won't rule anything out myself now that they brought back the 'stealer cult from the grave.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 06, 2017, 03:39:37 PM
Quote from: Chico on August 06, 2017, 08:45:21 AM
I doubted they would bring back both Ad Mech &  'Stealer Cult and they did, so maybe Squats coming back might happen.

It may just end up being plastic Death Korps, which in itself isn't a bad thing either :D.

Myself I wanted it too be Blood Axes though hehe.

They have been mentioning the death korps alot lately in their campaign posts and in the regimental standard.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 06, 2017, 05:26:27 PM
Aye well seeing as the Cadians the arguably the most iconic and well selling of the Imperial Guard have been all but destroyed in the fluff (To a lesser or greater extent) they do need a new figurehead for the IG range.

Why not Death Korps as said figurehead, they always sold well for FW and much like the 30k can have plastics by GW and the expensive toys by FW still.

Hell even I was buy some DK for the novelty alone :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 06, 2017, 05:37:21 PM
Quote from: Chico on August 06, 2017, 05:26:27 PM
Aye well seeing as the Cadians the arguably the most iconic and well selling of the Imperial Guard have been all but destroyed in the fluff (To a lesser or greater extent) they do need a new figurehead for the IG range.

Why not Death Korps as said figurehead, they always sold well for FW and much like the 30k can have plastics by GW and the expensive toys by FW still.

Hell even I was buy some DK for the novelty alone :)

Cadia stands!

The gathering storm book mentions that 90% of the cadian guard were off world as is normal for them. So 90% of all cadian troops plus the inumerable regiments that use their gear and patterns means they will never disappear.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 06, 2017, 05:54:25 PM
True, but the Start Collecting boxes for the Imp Guard are listed as "No Longer Available". That's a very unusual move at this time unless it means something new is coming for them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on August 06, 2017, 07:26:18 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 06, 2017, 05:54:25 PM
True, but the Start Collecting boxes for the Imp Guard are listed as "No Longer Available". That's a very unusual move at this time unless it means something new is coming for them.

I think that lots of boxes that are marked that way are just being re-branded for 8th edition. At least that's the official explanation for most of the Tau range that's now not available.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 06, 2017, 07:32:51 PM
Ah, that makes sense I guess!

Now if only they were changing the name on the boxes back to "Imperial Guard" :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 06, 2017, 09:41:16 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 06, 2017, 07:32:51 PM
Ah, that makes sense I guess!

Now if only they were changing the name on the boxes back to "Imperial Guard" :D

Or even Imperial Army  :o lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 06, 2017, 09:49:15 PM
I'd love a redux of the rogue trader imperial army style.  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 06, 2017, 10:48:10 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 06, 2017, 05:37:21 PM
Cadia stands!

The gathering storm book mentions that 90% of the cadian guard were off world as is normal for them. So 90% of all cadian troops plus the inumerable regiments that use their gear and patterns means they will never disappear.

Nope GW doesn't like then any more so they'll all be fed to Tyranids ;) then in 20 plus years will return in a promo vid to get anyone talking only to turn out to just be another Marine Ha!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 07, 2017, 06:18:39 PM
Not being sued for knockoffs, as that would be too ironic, but they're being sued - Spikey bits link (https://spikeybits.com/2017/08/games-workshop-is-being-sued-for-62-5m.html)

Quote
Moore alleges violations of the U.S. Law and RICO under 18 & 15 U.S. CODE, including but not limited to Fraud, Price Fixing, Tortious Interference, Breach of Contract, Unjust Enrichment, Restraint of Trade, Conspiracy and Antitrust Violations.

No idea how it will end, but could be fun while it lasts o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 07, 2017, 07:58:27 PM
Quote from: zemjw on August 07, 2017, 06:18:39 PM
Not being sued for knockoffs, as that would be too ironic, but they're being sued - Spikey bits link (https://spikeybits.com/2017/08/games-workshop-is-being-sued-for-62-5m.html)

No idea how it will end, but could be fun while it lasts o_o

Wow, that reads like a bad joke.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 07, 2017, 09:01:13 PM
50,000% markup  lol I actually find myself wanting to defend GW on that. While it might cost 6c to produce one plastic miniature. Making a limited run of a plastic miniature may also cost 6c per miniature however tooling, advertising, paying for warehousing and labour etc would cost substantially more. $30 is a ridiculous price but a "1000% markup to 60c of the cost of the plastic involved in the miniature wouldn't cover all the extra costs.
Good luck in that court case buddy.
I would actually like to know what he would do with the 62.5m dollars (It may have said that but I didn't read the entire article)
I'm a bit sceptical whether this article is true or not.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 07, 2017, 09:03:52 PM
Reads like the transcript of a Trump call to Nottingham.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 07, 2017, 09:07:33 PM
The plaintiff sounds like an absolute loon with too much time on his hands and no chance of winning. Like he's a few cups short of the miniatures version of the Boston Tea Party.  I'd not looked at Spikey Bitz before but the fact that that website is taking him seriously does not speak well of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 07, 2017, 09:24:47 PM
Well, it has given us all a good laugh at least.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on August 07, 2017, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on August 07, 2017, 09:07:33 PM
The plaintiff sounds like an absolute loon with too much time on his hands and no chance of winning.

Doesn't every club have at least one?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 08, 2017, 12:53:11 AM
Yep, a few grand spent on just that lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 08, 2017, 08:06:56 AM
According to some sources around online the bloke is a known loon who runs a few con churches and has tried it on with several companies, including ringing up one supplier and pretending to be a woman in order to get free product. I have a feeling whoever told him this was good to go has never heard of games workshop and thought "hey, how hatd can a company that makes toy soldiers be?"
I almost feel sorry for the lawhammer he's about to get.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on August 08, 2017, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: zemjw on August 07, 2017, 06:18:39 PM
Not being sued for knockoffs, as that would be too ironic, but they're being sued - Spikey bits link (https://spikeybits.com/2017/08/games-workshop-is-being-sued-for-62-5m.html)

No idea how it will end, but could be fun while it lasts o_o

The thing is, he's not wrong on some of them:

Quote
Moore alleges violations of the U.S. Law and RICO under 18 & 15 U.S. CODE, including but not limited to Fraud, Price Fixing, Tortious Interference, Breach of Contract, Unjust Enrichment, Restraint of Trade, Conspiracy and Antitrust Violations.

Emphasis are mine. Bold are the ones they've definitely done and will be easy to find evidence for. Italic are the ones they've done but will be hard to find evidence for.

To break it down:
Price Fixing - GW require that American shops sell at a price THEY set, not allowing shops to set their own price. Easily viewable in any contract they've provided to an American Gaming Store.
Tortious Interference / Restraint of Trade - GW will have undoubtedly contacted shops and told them that they have to remove other people's goods or place GW's goods at pride of place. More 80s / 90s stuff, though, doubt they've done it in the past decade.
Unjust Enrichment - GW "uses" people's Intellectual Property (Dune, Michael Moorcock's books, Glorantha, Starship Troopers etc) to make their setting and then sues other individuals for "using" their intellectual property to create stuff. I say "use" but you can submit "inspired by" or whatever else.

Most of it sounds like waffle, but he might hit them with the price fixing one. GW in the USA are definitely price fixing.

EDIT: What GW are doing is definitely price fixing: (https://www.thebalance.com/g00/price-fixing-types-examples-why-it-s-illegal-3305955?i10c.referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F):

Quote
Vertical price fixing: It usually occurs between those in the supply chain, like an auto manufacturer and its dealers. For example, a manufacturer of a really popular doll might use its clout to force its retailers to follow the "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price, " and not offer sales or discounts.

This type of price fixing has been illegal since 1911. That's thanks to the Supreme Court's decision in Miles vs Park when the Court said price fixing violated the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. Some manufacturers get around this through vertical integration. For example, Apple has its own stores. That allows it to remain full-price without being accused of illegal price-fixing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on August 08, 2017, 04:28:57 PM
Quote from: Shamash-Bel on August 08, 2017, 02:52:27 PM
GW in the USA are definitely price fixing.

Really? As I understand the law, price fixing has to occur between competitors. What GW have done is set a maximum level of discount a retailer can apply to their product; a perfectly legal move to maintain a perceived 'high-end' value of their products. It is simply part of their terms, and if a retailer wishes to stock GW, they'll sign it.
But it is not 'collusion between rival companies to sell a product, service, or commodity at a fixed price for mutual benefit.'
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 08, 2017, 05:27:45 PM
Yep, it's douchey but not illegal.  Anyone can limit retailers of their product to prices...it's just no one else is really mad enough to try it.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on August 08, 2017, 06:01:36 PM
Quote from: Lovejoy on August 08, 2017, 04:28:57 PM
Really? As I understand the law, price fixing has to occur between competitors. What GW have done is set a maximum level of discount a retailer can apply to their product; a perfectly legal move to maintain a perceived 'high-end' value of their products. It is simply part of their terms, and if a retailer wishes to stock GW, they'll sign it.
But it is not 'collusion between rival companies to sell a product, service, or commodity at a fixed price for mutual benefit.'

From Wikipedia:

Quote
Price fixing is an agreement between participants on the same side in a market to buy or sell a product, service, or commodity only at a fixed price, or maintain the market conditions such that the price is maintained at a given level by controlling supply and demand.

Apple were done for something similar in 2015 by colluding with publishers to push eBooks by manipulating prices, IIRC.

I won't deny the whole thing is pretty fuzzy and IANAL but he's definitely got something that a lawyer could sink their teeth into there.

EDIT: Found something that shows it's definitely illegal (https://www.thebalance.com/g00/price-fixing-types-examples-why-it-s-illegal-3305955?i10c.referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F):

Quote
Vertical price fixing: It usually occurs between those in the supply chain, like an auto manufacturer and its dealers. For example, a manufacturer of a really popular doll might use its clout to force its retailers to follow the "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price, " and not offer sales or discounts.

This type of price fixing has been illegal since 1911. That's thanks to the Supreme Court's decision in Miles vs Park when the Court said price fixing violated the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. Some manufacturers get around this through vertical integration. For example, Apple has its own stores. That allows it to remain full-price without being accused of illegal price-fixing.

So yeah, GW is probably fucked on that front.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 08, 2017, 06:22:37 PM
You're not "forcing" retailers to do anything if you have a retail agreement and they sign it.  Now if GW signed a normal retail agreement with a store, disagreed with their pricing and then mysteriously started having supply issues for that store, or something more shady?  Perhaps.  However, a signed and agreed upon retail arrangement can essentially get you out of anything.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 08, 2017, 08:38:10 PM
http://newsthump.com/2017/08/08/games-workshop-sued-for-62-5m-or-one-warhammer-starter-set/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on August 08, 2017, 08:53:26 PM
Quote from: Shamash-Bel on August 08, 2017, 06:01:36 PM
EDIT: Found something that shows it's definitely illegal
I'm not so sure; what they're doing is minimum resale price maintenance; often referred to as vertical price fixing. As you say, it was classed as illegal in 1911, but in 1997 State Oil Co. v. Khan led to the US Supreme Court deciding that vertical price fixing is no longer considered a per se violation of the Sherman Act.

It's one of the few bits in the lawsuit that might require actual court ruling, but I still reckon GW are on the right side of that one.


In other news... GW have a special mini to celebrate 30 years of 40K... although I can't really see what's special about it, TBH. Looks pretty much like a regular Primaris to me.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/07/warhammer-40000-turns-30-and-theres-a-new-model-to-celebrate/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/07/warhammer-40000-turns-30-and-theres-a-new-model-to-celebrate/)

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/40k30YrsPrimarisSergeant_Image1nz.jpg.jpg)



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 08, 2017, 09:33:09 PM
He's got a reeeeally long bit of loo roll?

Left foot looks weird. Like they forgot to move the upper part. Oops.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on August 08, 2017, 10:11:50 PM
Quote from: Elbows on August 08, 2017, 06:22:37 PM
You're not "forcing" retailers to do anything if you have a retail agreement and they sign it.  Now if GW signed a normal retail agreement with a store, disagreed with their pricing and then mysteriously started having supply issues for that store, or something more shady?  Perhaps.  However, a signed and agreed upon retail arrangement can essentially get you out of anything.

The "retail arrangement" is (or was) illegal. It's antitrust stuff.

Quote from: Lovejoy on August 08, 2017, 08:53:26 PM
I'm not so sure; what they're doing is minimum resale price maintenance; often referred to as vertical price fixing. As you say, it was classed as illegal in 1911, but in 1997 State Oil Co. v. Khan led to the US Supreme Court deciding that vertical price fixing is no longer considered a per se violation of the Sherman Act.

It's one of the few bits in the lawsuit that might require actual court ruling, but I still reckon GW are on the right side of that one.

The Khan thing isn't quite the thing in this case, but it's Leegin that's the key in this case:

Quote
Vertical price-fixing by agreement was considered per se illegal in the U.S. until a pair of modern-day Supreme Court cases spaced ten years apart established the current rule that all forms of resale price setting — maximum, minimum, or exact — are judged under federal law by the rule of reason. The 1997 decision in Khan overturned a 29-year old case to declare that the rule of reason applies to maximum price agreements, while the far more controversial Leegin decision in 2007 jettisoned a 96-year old precedent by extending Khan to minimum prices (and the analytically equivalent exact prices). Likely because maximum prices have the effect of holding down costs, while minimum or exact prices prop them up, bills have been introduced both in Congress and at the state level to legislatively overturn Leegin by restoring the per se rule to minimum resale price agreements, but, so far, only Maryland's efforts have been enacted into law. While application of the rule of reason in this context is too new to assess its effect and the empirical evidence supporting the consumer welfare arguments in favor of going back to the per se rule is lacking, the emotion is not, increasing the odds that Congress will turn back the clock, other states will join Maryland, or both.

However, regardless whether Leegin survives, none of the legislative efforts aimed at minimum resale price agreements affect the Supreme Court's 1919 ruling in Colgate that setting maximum, minimum or exact resale prices without an agreement (that is, unilaterally) is not illegal price-fixing prohibited under the Sherman Act. As a result, a supplier may announce a price at which its product must be resold (that is, establish a ceiling, floor, or exact price policy) and refuse to sell to any reseller that does not comply, as long as there is no agreement between the supplier and its reseller on resale price levels. Even when resellers follow the supplier's resale price policy, there is no unlawful agreement. With this latitude, many manufacturers of desirable branded products have successfully discouraged the discounting of their products in such diverse industries as consumer electronics, furniture, appliances, sporting goods, tires, luggage, handbags, videos, agricultural supplies, electronic test equipment, and automotive accessories and replacement parts.

God knows what'll happen, though. It'll be an actual groundbreaker. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duke Donald on August 08, 2017, 10:16:28 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 08, 2017, 08:38:10 PM
http://newsthump.com/2017/08/08/games-workshop-sued-for-62-5m-or-one-warhammer-starter-set/

That made me laugh!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 09, 2017, 12:09:37 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on August 08, 2017, 09:33:09 PM
He's got a reeeeally long bit of loo roll?

Left foot looks weird. Like they forgot to move the upper part. Oops.

Came here to post that pic, super underwhelming.

I know they've been painting rapid prototypes for years but there's some pretty egregious print lines visible on the big image!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 09, 2017, 04:26:50 AM
Yeah, I just noticed those print lines too. You think they would have done something about that. A little photoshop goes a long way. Hopefully they will clean up the masters before producing them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 09, 2017, 08:06:36 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 09, 2017, 04:26:50 AM
Yeah, I just noticed those print lines too. You think they would have done something about that. A little photoshop goes a long way. Hopefully they will clean up the masters before producing them.

They don't need to clean up any masters as the tools are cut straight from digital, the print is used to get painted shots sorted well ahead of production.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 09, 2017, 08:55:03 AM
I have the original space marine, so I was a bit miffed that I missed the recent re-release of it.

This one, not so much :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 09, 2017, 09:15:02 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on August 09, 2017, 08:06:36 AM
They don't need to clean up any masters as the tools are cut straight from digital, the print is used to get painted shots sorted well ahead of production.
Interesting. Do they go straight to the electro-eroding or whatever it is called, based upon it digitally?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 09, 2017, 11:06:45 AM
Quote from: Scurv on August 09, 2017, 08:51:04 AM
it might also be worth noting that unmagnified they would be all but invisible.

I know, it's ridiculous how good the prints are really, I've handled lots of high quality prints so they just jumped out at me. "Egregious" was fairly hyperbolic tbh.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 09, 2017, 11:08:24 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 09, 2017, 09:15:02 AM
Interesting. Do they go straight to the electro-eroding or whatever it is called, based upon it digitally?

I don't know what CAM process they use specifically I'm afraid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 09, 2017, 09:51:37 PM
Interesting times, better learn a new trade fast!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 10, 2017, 02:38:54 AM
You brought up the point yourself though - an artistic background helps.  I see a LOAD of digitally designed stuff where the end product is a competently modeled piece...of terrible artistic design.  I think there is a huge portion of the digital sculpting community (amateurs and professional) with very little artistic background or capability.

A good sculptor is a good sculptor regardless of medium...and I think many companies fall extremely short/flat in that department.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 10, 2017, 07:52:28 AM
Hit the point right on the head there guys. CAD is a tool, and like any tool, you are going to need more than skills with that specific tool to actually make something good with it.

Or alternatively, have somebody do with good artistic sense do the initial designs, and have somebody with good CAD and engineering skills do the final work, preferably with some back and forth feedback.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on August 10, 2017, 09:16:50 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on August 09, 2017, 09:51:37 PM
Interesting times, better learn a new trade fast!

I hear you - if the hobby ever does go purely digital, I'll find another job; I've got no interest in digital modelling at all. I like putty!  :D

That said, I doubt we'll see it happen... the tech is there already, I just think the will to do it on the part of customers is lacking. Already, pre-built, pre-painted models have way more success than more hobby-level stuff. Look at the success of X-wing, for example.

I think home-printing hobbyists will wind up being just another segment of the hobby, rather than a replacement. We're looking at further fragmentation, rather than a wholesale changeover, IMHO.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 10, 2017, 09:21:21 AM
Old-school modelling won't go away because for all but the very largest operations (as was pointed out above, an outfit like GW can have the dies actually digitally created - no master required), you're still making a master which needs to be recast a couple times to get a production mold. It really doesn't matter how you get there - conventionally or digitally. Both can take about as long and is determined more by the skill of the sculptor with their chosen tools than anything else.

But having more tools is better and opens things up to allow more people to create minis. So it's good all round.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on August 10, 2017, 09:29:13 AM
The reason I don't think 3d printed at home miniatures will take over is the simple fact I'm sure there's a lot of people like me who just enjoy building kits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 10, 2017, 10:49:58 AM
I see the New Mortarion has been doing the rounds in his atrocious paint scheme.
and what a pile of junk it is too. certainly one to avoid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 10, 2017, 11:34:43 AM
Quote from: Lovejoy on August 10, 2017, 09:16:50 AM
I hear you - if the hobby ever does go purely digital, I'll find another job; I've got no interest in digital modelling at all. I like putty!  :D


I actually enjoy digital sculpting (I've only done some very basic stuff) but I'm not convinced it's going to be a viable long term career choice. I'm 5 years into sculpting professionally and the industry's changed so much already. I'm cautious of the time and money investment involved in going digital only to find myself without the client base I need.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on August 10, 2017, 11:41:15 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on August 10, 2017, 11:34:43 AM
I'm cautious of the time and money investment involved in going digital only to find myself without the client base I need.
There's an endless stream of KS projects always shouting for digital... getting them to pay for it is a bit more tricky, though.

Still, there's always GW!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 10, 2017, 11:57:46 AM
I have a fair few 3D printed 1/56 WW2 Tanks/Trucks which I order rather than printing myself.

While the price is fantastic on the mid to low end range (£7 a Truck, £10 a Tank) the prep work needed with sandpaper or a chemical bath to remove print lines is a bloody pain in the bum, but still beats building plastic kits in my eyes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 10, 2017, 03:15:41 PM
Games workshop responding to leaks with humour and good spirit!
This one made me giggle, Even if I am confused why a plauge marine admin miniature exists!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMu9G7Pyw8

Also mortarion looks much better in the round, as is usually the case for GW miniatures. These dynamic big display figures don't do well in 2d photographs at all.
I liek the look of the little flying nurgling censor bearers at his side, I can see them being used in a skirmish warband.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 10, 2017, 03:44:56 PM
That gave me a chuckle.

And that skull abacus really is quality!
 lol lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 10, 2017, 04:01:15 PM
Quote from: Mason on August 10, 2017, 03:44:56 PM
That gave me a chuckle.

And that skull abacus really is quality!
 lol lol



indeed,  A super human warrior, a traitor to a god, servant of the embodiment of entropy ,mutant , 10,000 year old warp dwelling murderer ...

..And his job is to conduct basic admin.
I love it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 10, 2017, 04:01:42 PM
Quote from: Mason on August 10, 2017, 03:44:56 PM
That gave me a chuckle.
And that skull abacus really is quality!
 lol lol

I enjoyed it ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 10, 2017, 04:52:48 PM
Is the wink coming back to 40K? One can certainly hope so...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on August 10, 2017, 05:58:39 PM
In other news, after seeing the Primaris Repulsor in the "flesh", I'm really going to get a couple of them. If you take their turret off, you get a nice armored anti-grav lander, perfect for 28mm figures (in this case it really seems you can fit 10 Space Marines in there, but not Primaris ones, lol). And almost no skulls in sight, praise Roboute Guilliman!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 10, 2017, 06:10:41 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on August 10, 2017, 05:58:39 PM
In other news, after seeing the Primaris Repulsor in the "flesh", I'm really going to get a couple of them. If you take their turret off, you get a nice armored anti-grav lander, perfect for 28mm figures (in this case it really seems you can fit 10 Space Marines in there, but not Primaris ones, lol). And almost no skulls in sight, praise Roboute Guilliman!

if you get one could you snap a photo of the interor for me? Every review of the kit seems to go "huh, isnide detail,meh, lets look at the guns we've already seen "
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on August 10, 2017, 06:15:00 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 10, 2017, 06:10:41 PM
if you get one could you snap a photo of the interor for me? Every review of the kit seems to go "huh, isnide detail,meh, lets look at the guns we've already seen "

Will do. The one I saw was already assembled and the only interior it had was only some benches. Apparently even the Rhino has got more detail than this one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on August 10, 2017, 07:07:44 PM
3d printers are very maintenance intensive as well as prone to break down in a way the casual user simply can't deal with.  In many ways this is also true of printers for printing on paper.  To the point where printer manufacturers have figured out if they offload the cost onto ink and toner, they can solve many printer failures by simply selling the customer a brand new printer, subsidized by high ink and toner costs.  I don't think a similar solution is going to be available for 3d printers any time soon.

3d printing as a hobby will become more and more accessible to more people as they become more reliable and easy to use, but I am not sure if they will ever be ubiquitous in modern homes.

They don't have to be in order to have a disruptive effect on my industries.  With the internet people can find a 3d printer for hire within their own city really, really easily.  There are websites I can use to find people even a few blocks away who will print things for a small fee.  As the costs of the printers goes down, those operating on a break even basis will charge lower and lower prices.

GW may one day be negatively impacted by this trend, but it's not today.  It's hard to even predict when it will be.  Or to what degree the disruption will be.  I may be a bit cynical, but I think their business model basically already revolves around selling people a hobby they could do more efficiently elsewhere.  So it will probably continue to function in the face of wide spread easy local access to quality 3d prints.

From what I understand, the disruptive technology in the publishing world was not the home printer.  It was the ereader.  I'm not sure what the analogue to the ereader is in the miniature wargaming world, or if there even is one, but I suspect it will take something like an ereader rather than a printer to be truly devastating to the miniature industry.

There's also a lesson to be learned from how people deal with piracy.  Content creators that establish a relationship with those who enjoy their creations have figured out that people will pay for them even in the face of free competition in the form of piracy.  Again and again people create cool miniatures and then post about them in various places and people ask about them being cast.  With market places for STL files and things like crowd funding and subscription/patronage platforms miniature producers are going to be able to find a place in a disrupted industry.

My suggestion would be to get in front of the camera now.  Start having a real face.  Start building a community of people you are inviting to participate along with you.  GW is doing this and it will become more important as the industry changes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 10, 2017, 07:50:16 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on August 10, 2017, 05:58:39 PM
In other news, after seeing the Primaris Repulsor in the "flesh", I'm really going to get a couple of them. If you take their turret off, you get a nice armored anti-grav lander, perfect for 28mm figures (in this case it really seems you can fit 10 Space Marines in there, but not Primaris ones, lol). And almost no skulls in sight, praise Roboute Guilliman!

I have not seen it in person but do agree that it would make a perfectly good sci-fi grav tank.
Not too much obvious 40K stuff that cannot be hidden or removed.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 10, 2017, 08:53:13 PM
Quote from: Mason on August 10, 2017, 07:50:16 PM
I have not seen it in person but do agree that it would make a perfectly good sci-fi grav tank.
Not too much obvious 40K stuff that cannot be hidden or removed.


I picked one up at Claymore last Saturday at £10 off  :D

Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet. I was thinking "grav tank", but the lander option could be worth exploring.

There are pictures of the sprues on the GW site - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marines-Primaris-Repulsor), but I'm not sure they help...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 10, 2017, 09:21:51 PM
Its a nice lump of tanky grav thing, but, no not that badly dragged back to GW yet to consider it..

The lack of skull plating really helps to.

Quote from: Scurv on August 10, 2017, 08:23:50 PM
Simply not true, Have two printers, Both worked straight out of the box and have never broken down. Have balanced the print bed a few times in a few years, that takes 2 minutes and is easy. That is the limit of maintenance required. Does your printer break down all the time?

This.

I bought last year a cheap (yes less than £200 its that cheap)  Prusa Chinese clone self assembly kit thing. Even has heated  build plate (ooh).

Intentionally - so I could swear and curse and bitch and learn what it does.

Which I did, all of the above.

Added bits, printed bits to add, bought extra fans, fiddle some more, changed bits, add bits etc.

It works. It works fine actually. Ok not straight out of the box, but to be fair it was in pieces at that point... ::)

I think up to know I might have actually spent £200 pounds on it including filament!

I don't get that much time to mess with it. so filament lasts a while... on my second reel.

Miss-print - yes, but that's been mainly down to either the STL or the slicer, or just not quite setting it right.

sometimes have to align the bed, yes, that's about it. It works, nothing massive - hooks clips and other bits and bobs - movement trays etc  and things, even some basic scenery since sorting the additional fan for cooling.

But I have not actually had it break down on me yet.

I will eventually get a better one but no rush as although surprised by the fact, it does work.

To be honest the only issue I really see with them is time - eg how long it takes to print stuff, and I think that more than anything else, will keep mass production or large production runs in manufacturing settings from being impacted, whether in our hobby or other places for longer than anything else to do with 3d printing.

we as hobby people merrily will set something printing for 4 or 10 or 18 or whatever hours, its fine by us.

But I cannot see large companies being happy with the idea of printing 10,000 item runs, and basing that on each item taking 4 hours to print, so they will be ready by... oh god no. and if there is an error in the print run - object badly sliced or whatever....

Surely that's why in the example of our happy small scale hobby they are primarily used to created masters that are used to create moulds for making large numbers of copies for sales/distribution currently surely? Even large numbers of printers that would be needed for large scale mass production -  would be a bit excessive currently even forgetting the possible long print times?

for small scale production of items, yes great, but for large runs of hundreds or thousands or more of something err, no I don't see that being done yet, its a useful tech and enhancement to many existing methods of production yes.

Its proved quite useful for printing things not hobby related more than for hobby stuff to be fair. So far

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 10, 2017, 09:44:05 PM
Folks.

Games Workshop plots and ploys => On topic.

3D printing woes and joys => Off topic.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on August 10, 2017, 09:55:18 PM
Quote from: Scurv on August 10, 2017, 08:23:50 PM
Simply not true, Have two printers, Both worked straight out of the box and have never broken down. Have balanced the print bed a few times in a few years, that takes 2 minutes and is easy. That is the limit of maintenance required. Does your printer break down all the time?

The difference between the hobby user and the general public using one is enormous.  Providing tech support for 3d printers is very similar to providing tech support for copiers and paper printers.  Individuals going "but my printer never has problems" doesn't actually encapsulate what's really going on in the larger user base once you add in truly casual users.  There is a very good reason the home paper printer market has embraced the disposable printer business model.

Anyway, the more important point is that GW is already in the business of selling people on a premium approach to the hobby, so if they're already out-competing the cheaper options, they'll probably find a way to make things work with 3d printers easily accessible to everyone.

It's also far more interesting how GW is preparing for that shift by becoming more communicative with their customers.  They want to invite them to purchase an experience of participating in their worlds through collecting, building models, painting them and playing games.  They can do that even in a world of acccessible 3d printing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 11, 2017, 12:14:24 AM
The new pics of Morty floating around (literally) look pretty nice!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 11, 2017, 06:25:26 AM
Morty has a huge amount of detail on it, not sure I like it that much, but well.. probably outside of my ability.

 I actually have a triumvirate of the primarch set (won it in a raffle, still amazed at winning that - my luck normally does not stretch quite that far) - but although nice, I would never have actually bought it new.

Matching him on the Nurgle side although almost tempting, not sure about that, and plenty of other stuff I really, really should find the time to get on with. ::)

Still resisting the new GW temptation
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reed on August 11, 2017, 11:26:08 AM
Mortarion looks like a fairy. Bloated and putrid, but still a fairy.
Someone had to say it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 11, 2017, 01:52:50 PM
I think he can be fixed...

-Replace the wings
-Chop off the floaty chains and flies/nurglings
-Replace the slightly over-silly scythe with something a bit more sane
-Find a way to mount it that doesn't include floating.

I think there is potential there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 11, 2017, 01:59:35 PM
I'm pretty impressed already, really looking forward to seeing what the CMON crowd do with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Agis on August 11, 2017, 03:38:54 PM
Quote from: Reed on August 11, 2017, 11:26:08 AM
Mortarion looks like a fairy. Bloated and putrid, but still a fairy.
Someone had to say it.

True, proof:
(https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2017/8/10/896174-Mortarion%20scheme%20tweak%20-.jpg)

But I have to agree, the mini can be improved!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 11, 2017, 03:41:56 PM
GW have got the galvanic servo haulers back in,just picked mine up from local independent model shop as he had ordered it for me, thinking of using them for scenery for necromunda.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 11, 2017, 03:46:06 PM
He has got a Brian Froud vibe tbh but I don't mind that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on August 11, 2017, 05:55:53 PM
I think the main problem is the fairy wings. If you paint them in another scheme - maybe a bit more like rotten/putrid flesh - it would vastly improve the mini.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on August 11, 2017, 06:05:04 PM
I find a lot of these highly detailed miniatures quite difficult to 'see' in GWs photographs.

Usually the face should be the centre of attention. With the lighting here the centre of attention is all over the place, on the wings, the legs and on the spikey back protrusion.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 11, 2017, 06:09:24 PM
Quote from: westwaller on August 11, 2017, 06:05:04 PM
I find a lot of these highly detailed miniatures quite difficult to 'see' in GWs photographs.

Usually the face should be the centre of attention. With the lighting here the centre of attention is all over the place, on the wings, the legs and on the spikey back protrusion.



This is why the miniatures often goes up in peoples opinions when GW release a 180 video.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 11, 2017, 06:50:20 PM
The pic Agis posted is a digital re-paint by someone over on Dakka I think --- it helps tremendously.  GW chose a really piss poor colour palette to showcase the Death Guard --- purple/pink/camo green simply isn't stunning or attractive in most cases.  I think it's hurting a lot of their models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 11, 2017, 07:09:37 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 11, 2017, 06:09:24 PM
This is why the miniatures often goes up in peoples opinions when GW release a 180 video.

This is very true. I didn't like Mortarion at all when I first saw the 2D image, but when I saw the 3D version spinning around on the video I thought he looked ace. An alternate paintjob will be even better I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 11, 2017, 07:27:47 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 11, 2017, 07:09:37 PM
This is very true. I didn't like Mortarion at all when I first saw the 2D image, but when I saw the 3D version spinning around on the video I thought he looked ace. An alternate paintjob will be even better I think.

A miniature is just a figuarative sculpture, and like most figurative sculptures they will have a "face" , the perfect angle from which to view the dynamism,pose and narrative of the sculpt.
GW seem weirdly bad at capturing that in their photographs, and i think it might be because they post their miniatures in nice big battle displays where every single figure now is it's own individual detailed sculpture.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 11, 2017, 08:54:41 PM
I also think there's a downside to making the figures so dynamic and trying to get them to look awesome from every angle. Don't get me wrong, they're great but back in the halcyon days of Jes' classics you got that "icon" image straight up from the front BAM! There's a reason those Phoenix Lords have been on sale for 20yrs for example.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 11, 2017, 09:13:10 PM
So, at which point did the sisters get a flying stealth submarine?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Sisters-Of-Silence-Kharon-Pattern-Acquisitor-2017 (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Sisters-Of-Silence-Kharon-Pattern-Acquisitor-2017)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 11, 2017, 09:17:39 PM
Quote from: YPU on August 11, 2017, 09:13:10 PM
So, at which point did the sisters get a flying stealth submarine?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Sisters-Of-Silence-Kharon-Pattern-Acquisitor-2017 (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Sisters-Of-Silence-Kharon-Pattern-Acquisitor-2017)

Announced a few months ago. I love it, I can just imagine it heading over the sands about a meter in the air, Flying in exactly the way that bricks don't.
All whilst going "wohmwohmwohmwohmwohmwohmwohm..."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on August 11, 2017, 09:27:44 PM
Quote from: YPU on August 11, 2017, 09:13:10 PM
So, at which point did the sisters get a flying stealth submarine?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Sisters-Of-Silence-Kharon-Pattern-Acquisitor-2017 (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Sisters-Of-Silence-Kharon-Pattern-Acquisitor-2017)

Personally I love it...but in a Pulpish-sort of way. Looks like something a Pulp-Era Batman could use  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 11, 2017, 09:47:30 PM
It's a cracking looking model but really doesn't say 40k to me. Not even in an RT way  o_o

New design team?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 11, 2017, 09:56:55 PM
A lot of the Forgeworld stuff has a bit of a different look. Most of it fits the 40k mood, but occasionally something stands out as a bit different. I see it as expanding the 40k image a bit rather than sitting outside of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on August 12, 2017, 07:48:21 AM
Quote from: jimbibbly on August 11, 2017, 09:47:30 PM
It's a cracking looking model but really doesn't say 40k to me. Not even in an RT way  o_o

New design team?


I really like it! 8)

Can you not imagine it with a red and gold/brass colour scheme, with someone to a similar name of Glash Fordon flying it? Actually the black makes it look as if it's out of the old B/W Flash Gordon programmes....but at 85 squid though..... :o

Flash Gordon or even maybe Dune? It has that mechanical worm look!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on August 12, 2017, 11:04:02 AM
It's definitely got that dune feel to it, like the vehicle the navigators use
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 12, 2017, 11:34:52 AM
I'm wondering if the new skull set might be a good source of replacement heads for my old plastic skellies. Though the original heads are part of the charm, a bit more variety wouldn't go amiss. I doubt I'd want to mix the originals with these new ones though.

Mixing in newer GW plastic skellies wouldn't look so out of place as well.

If I had the Vampire Counts/ Tomb Kings skellies I would definitely use these new skulls. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Skulls-2017 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Skulls-2017)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on August 12, 2017, 12:18:04 PM
The skull pack is really good will definitely buy this for use with my skeletons
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 12, 2017, 12:19:47 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on August 12, 2017, 11:34:52 AM
I'm wondering if the new skull set might be a good source of replacement heads for my old plastic skellies. Though the original heads are part of the charm, a bit more variety wouldn't go amiss. I doubt I'd want to mix the originals with these new ones though.

Mixing in newer GW plastic skellies wouldn't look so out of place as well.

If I had the Vampire Counts/ Tomb Kings skellies I would definitely use these new skulls. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Skulls-2017 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Skulls-2017)

I was thinking if the bird skulls from this box could be a good way to add some variety to skeletons , sort of like undead beastmen/tzaangors .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 12, 2017, 01:26:40 PM
A couple of the large horned skulls might work nicely on a skellie horse.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 12, 2017, 01:33:22 PM
Quote from: Andym on August 12, 2017, 07:48:21 AM


I really like it! 8)

Can you not imagine it with a red and gold/brass colour scheme, with someone to a similar name of Glash Fordon flying it? Actually the black makes it look as if it's out of the old B/W Flash Gordon programmes....but at 85 squid though..... :o

Flash Gordon or even maybe Dune? It has that mechanical worm look!

Good call  8)

Almost good enough to make me buy it  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on August 12, 2017, 02:18:43 PM
Quote from: Andym on August 12, 2017, 07:48:21 AM


I really like it! 8)

Can you not imagine it with a red and gold/brass colour scheme, with someone to a similar name of Glash Fordon flying it? Actually the black makes it look as if it's out of the old B/W Flash Gordon programmes....but at 85 squid though..... :o

Flash Gordon or even maybe Dune? It has that mechanical worm look!

I keep looking at it for 15mm as a massive drop ship type thing - I like a science fantasy vibe to my Sci Fi and this looks like it'd be grand to deliver an evil group of baddies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 12, 2017, 04:34:25 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on August 11, 2017, 09:27:44 PM
Personally I love it...but in a Pulpish-sort of way. Looks like something a Pulp-Era Batman could use  :D

I can see it being used in a Judge Dreddesque-setting. Like the design, the price not so much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 12, 2017, 07:41:54 PM
Some extra info on the new 40k RPG.
Announced on warhammer community but the new publisher have out out some info .
http://www.ulisses-us.com/wrath-glory-faq/?fref=gc

"What is Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay: Wrath & Glory?
Wrath & Glory is an officially licensed, brand-new roleplaying game set in the universe of Warhammer 40,000.

How is it related to the 8th edition of the tabletop miniatures game Warhammer 40,000?
The events that are occurring in the Dark Imperium of Warhammer 40,000 8th edition forms the central backdrop for Wrath & Glory. Characters adventuring into the Dark Imperium witness firsthand the dire threat that the Great Rift brings to the galaxy.

What does it have to do with the FFG RPGs?
Wrath & Glory is an entirely separate game line from Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and the other RPGs developed by Fantasy Flight Games.

What system does Wrath & Glory use?
Wrath & Glory has a brand-new game system involving dice pools of d6s to represent your character’s abilities. The game focuses on highlighting brutal combat, fast action, and a deep immersion into the setting of the 41st Millennium.

What is the focus of Wrath & Glory’s game line?
Wrath & Glory allows players to take on the roles of characters from the Warhammer 40,000 setting, including intrepid agents of the Imperium of Man and even some of the classic alien races that populate the galaxy.

What are the first Wrath & Glory products?
The game line begins with one core rulebook that contains everything you need to get started in the grim darkness of the far future.

What else is on the horizon for Wrath & Glory?
Future releases in the Wrath & Glory line feature campaigns that revolve around distinct elements of the Warhammer 40,000 universe, each campaign focusing on a different experience."


Sounds like it could be fun. I like pool systems, And I really like GWs new pattern of partnering with smaller but well regarded companies. spreading their third party support to multiple parties that can dedicate more time to it rather than just handing it over warts and all to FFG could be one of the best things for their third party IP.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 13, 2017, 11:00:45 AM
Necromunda is back baby! More info and two escher and goliath sculpts in the link!

www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/13/breaking-news-necromunda-returnsgw-homepage-post-1/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 13, 2017, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 13, 2017, 11:00:45 AM
Necromunda is back baby! More info and two escher and goliath sculpts in the link!

www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/13/breaking-news-necromunda-returnsgw-homepage-post-1/

Very nice, never thought I'd see the day. Quite like the preview sculpts as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 13, 2017, 11:20:21 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 13, 2017, 11:00:45 AM
Necromunda is back baby! More info and two escher and goliath sculpts in the link!

www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/13/breaking-news-necromunda-returnsgw-homepage-post-1/

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 13, 2017, 11:24:51 AM
By the sounds of it the rules have been updated too. No movement, shooting etc phases. Good!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 13, 2017, 11:31:57 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 13, 2017, 11:00:45 AM
Necromunda is back baby! More info and two escher and goliath sculpts in the link!

www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/13/breaking-news-necromunda-returnsgw-homepage-post-1/

Wooo-Hoooo!

Plastic kits of gangers too.
 :D :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Braxandur on August 13, 2017, 11:56:57 AM
Getting happier with GW al the time...  a weird (and somewhat nostalgic) feeling

Let's now jus hope that GW won't "miscalculate" demand, if a starter box will come out, or pull that limits stunt that they did with Shadow War once more....

My wallet though, is less happy, and sincerily hopes that other rumours such as a rerelease of dark future will be proven untrue and also that there will be no further warhammer quest, horus heresy or other skirmish game boxes (it already sort of accepted necromunda and shadesspire and reserves have been built up)....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 13, 2017, 12:11:22 PM
Well my Facebook, instagram and snapchat are all just flooded with necromunda hype. Dakka dakka has since more  rules into and unpaid plastic pics.
Release is October.

I'm starting to feel bad for other companies that try to announce things ahead of release. Every time you think games workshop are going to have a quiet period between big releases they drop some news about an upcoming big release and suddenly a large amount of potential hobby money is all but thrown their way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 13, 2017, 12:14:20 PM
Man, GW are really doing awesome stuff now. I am pretty damn excited for this. Post-Apoc/2000AD fans should be too; multipart plastic gangers!

Fingers crossed for my old Ratskin buddies returning!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 13, 2017, 12:30:24 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 13, 2017, 12:14:20 PM
Man, GW are really doing awesome stuff now. I am pretty damn excited for this. Post-Apoc/2000AD fans should be too; multipart plastic gangers!

Fingers crossed for my old Ratskin buddies returning!

The poster they were giving out looks to face a ratskin on it. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on August 13, 2017, 12:32:50 PM
Finally! I love those figures, looking really promising. I know a lot of you guys have been stoked by GW recently, but much of what they have done had been meh for me. I mean, come on, recyling space marines by making them bigger, boxes of skulls, and the AOS sigmarines - talk about self parody. I wanted to like Blood Bowl, prices were decent for a change, but the sculpts somehow did not do it for me. But now, fingers crossed, these look far, far better. I will definitely keep an eye on this. I won't be frothing like the fanboyz, but I am interested. A decent small scale skirmish game ripped off from based on Mad Max/Judge Dredd would be a good thing I reckon.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on August 13, 2017, 01:09:04 PM
A decent small scale skirmish game based on Judge Dredd is what youre after? Did you ever consider the Judge Dredd game? :D

It is actually really good...

Anyhoo, yeah this should bring in much more players if done well. The chat on twitter seems to be 6 gangs available on release with outlanders to follow and 'new' gangs following that. I'm not overly fussed on the new sculpts but hoping they price around the same as the BloodBowl teams they recently released. Scenery will no doubt be a key sale for GW now.

I'd hope for a decent volume of rules to be available and echo the dismay at the limited run hype GW plumps for. No surer way to turn people into keyboard warriors than to limit the amount of product to create more hype. Using the old excuse of underestimating demand doesnt cut it when youve used it for over a decade...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 13, 2017, 01:27:58 PM
I wonder how much teeth gnashing there will be about the figure size. Those Escher look to be around the size of the recent Sisters of Silence i.e. pretty bloody tall!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 13, 2017, 01:49:08 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on August 13, 2017, 01:27:58 PM
I wonder how much teeth gnashing there will be about the figure size. Those Escher look to be around the size of the recent Sisters of Silence i.e. pretty bloody tall!

Eschers are on 25mm bases according the the painter ,where the goliaths are on 32mm.

I don't mind these guys being a little taller in exchange for more detail and stylish garb, 40k's scale is all over the place anyway so the bits will still work with enough other stuff.

Did people really think the SoS are too tall? I think they're some of gw's best proportioned minis in a while.(plus bare in mind they were being made alongside custodes and primaris, so there would have been some future proofing going on.)


Also:
From LittlePlasicSoldiers

"We have an info dump of information for you from speaking to the amazing Specialist Games veteran designer Andy Hoare at The Forge World Open Day 2017.

So we are broadly looking at a game based on the 8th Edition 40k mechanics, but tailored to skirmish warfare. We see the edition of Action Points, that can be used to active gangers in a similar way to how Space Hulk works. Different actions will cost different points, such as activating a Heavy will cost two Action Points, whereas your run of the mill Ganger will cost only one.

We are looking at a release schedule much like BloodBlowl, this is the ‘Preview’, launch of the initial box set will follow in the same sort of timescale as from when BloodBowl was ‘Previewed’ then launched.

The box itself will contain the Escher and Goliath gangers we have seen already, the rules, accoutrements and most likely Shadow War terrain. The Specialist Games studio do not have the resources to produce terrain solely for Necromunda, so they are trail blazing the Shadow War release with all the cool terrain that was released with that boxed set, and subsequently in individual kits until present. The rules will allow for play in the way we are used to on gangways, ramps and gantries, but also in tunnels making use of the Zone Mortalis tiles available from Forge World.

We will see all the gangs from Hive Primus return, along with the gangs from Outlanders and Fanatic. We will also see new gangs and some expansion of the fluff on Necromunda.

HIVE SECONDUS was written about in the Fanatic days, a Hive overrun by Genstealer cult, nuked by the Necromunda Defence Forces to rid the planet of the infestation. However, the hive toppled on its side with most of the Cultists surviving resulting in the Defence Forces building a large trench system in the surrounding Ash Wastes to isolate the remains of the Hive from the rest f the planet. It is hinted we will be visiting this intreaging story in the future!

We will be posting updates as we get them!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 13, 2017, 02:19:15 PM
Those are quite nice,I started doing some with historical/fantasy28mm as didn't want pay the prices some necromunda figures are fetching.still got the rules an outlander supplement in loft.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Redmao on August 13, 2017, 03:48:04 PM
Looking forward to what will come out for the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 13, 2017, 04:37:43 PM
My only concern with the use of SWA terrain is that the game needs far more to play reasonably.  The SWA box, while a good deal, was nowhere near enough to play an actual game on a legitimate table.  Necromunda is in the same vein.  Not a big deal as I look forward to eventually doing a full table for SWA/Necromunda/40K etc...but it's a consideration of the limitation of the cool plastics.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 13, 2017, 07:05:10 PM
Jesus wept I think I'm going to go all in on this. Haven't been this excited about a release in years nay decades.

Gorkamorka next please?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 13, 2017, 07:06:27 PM
HMM still waiting to see if dark future gets rereleased.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on August 13, 2017, 07:13:48 PM
I am definitely intrigued by this. Figures look rather nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 14, 2017, 05:26:42 AM
Genestealer Cults, Mechanicus, Necromunda... I have to admit to being slightly amazed at what the design studio is putting out. Might as well mention Shadow War and Gangs of Commoragh, whuch appear to be side projects but they're fun games none-the-less.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 14, 2017, 08:02:50 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on August 14, 2017, 05:26:42 AM
Genestealer Cults, Mechanicus, Necromunda... I have to admit to being slightly amazed at what the design studio is putting out. Might as well mention Shadow War and Gangs of Commoragh, whuch appear to be side projects but they're fun games none-the-less.

If anything those side projects are what get me. Does anybody remember the age that the GW website was full of mini games? Skaven pit fights with rat ogres and other mutant beasts, chariot races etc. Those were the the golden days in my rose intend nostalgia goggles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 14, 2017, 04:11:28 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 13, 2017, 11:00:45 AM
Necromunda is back baby! More info and two escher and goliath sculpts in the link!

www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/13/breaking-news-necromunda-returnsgw-homepage-post-1/

Am I the only person who prefers the original miniatures (metals not the plastics) to these new ones. 

The new ones seem overly detailed and fussy, just like most of GW's recent stuff.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 14, 2017, 04:35:35 PM
Hmm, I think it may be a slightly unfair comparison given that we've not really "seen" the full model kits yet, and also keeping in mind that are painted versions are not from the 'Eavy Metal team.

The features and details that I've seen so far look very encouraging I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 14, 2017, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Derek H on August 14, 2017, 04:11:28 PM
Am I the only person who prefers the original miniatures (metals not the plastics) to these new ones. 

The new ones seem overly detailed and fussy, just like most of GW's recent stuff.   

The new ones are very different, it's almost apples to oranges stylistically. The old metal E/G were very "realistic" in comparison lovely mid period Goodwin/Perry figures. These definitely fit the more stylised modern plastics template. There's definitely nostalgia at play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on August 14, 2017, 08:49:20 PM
Those Goliath figures are awful. Squat, chunky physiques that even the most dedicated of bodybuilders could never hope to achieve.  I see GW is continuing its long slow march towards "37.25mm Rescue Heroes".  lol

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51JF2GHCRKL.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 14, 2017, 09:26:10 PM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on August 14, 2017, 08:49:20 PM
Those Goliath figures are awful. Squat, chunky physiques that even the most dedicated of bodybuilders could never hope to achieve.  I see GW is continuing its long slow march towards "37.25mm Rescue Heroes".  lol

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51JF2GHCRKL.jpg)


where the old miniatures and artwork were examples of refinement and realism not seen since Bernini, Of course.


(http://i.imgur.com/GY6iPQA.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/BVzowbO.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 14, 2017, 09:48:19 PM
Lol, always loved that picture tbf. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 14, 2017, 09:51:35 PM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on August 14, 2017, 08:49:20 PM
Those Goliath figures are awful. Squat, chunky physiques that even the most dedicated of bodybuilders could never hope to achieve.  I see GW is continuing its long slow march towards "37.25mm Rescue Heroes".  lol


To be fair, if you're looking for realism, you're in the wrong universe :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 14, 2017, 10:10:53 PM
Quote from: Gibby on August 14, 2017, 09:51:35 PM
To be fair, if you're looking for realism, you're in the wrong universe :)
lol

I always loved that Goliath picture as well. Flex and shoot!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 14, 2017, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on August 14, 2017, 09:48:19 PM
Lol, always loved that picture tbf. :D

Me too, It's metal as feck!

I think claiming that 40k gang members from a group that call themselves the goliaths look a bit too muscular is a silly hill to die on  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on August 15, 2017, 01:39:26 AM
I think these plastics look respectable. I don't know where you get the notion that the old Necromunda figures were not fussed with too much detail... the metal escher gang have a ton of bits and bobs on them, except for maybe the juves...

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d0/a5/b7/d0a5b78b753e49e5a3d6108402d6f3eb.jpg)

They aren't going to make a decent profit selling a rehash of figures from 25 years ago. It has to be modernized if they want to expand their customer base. I am not privy to their numbers, but I assume that bringing in new markets is more profitable than pandering to old diehards that may or may not buy something...  o_o

If LAF has taught me anything, it's that a proper paintjob can make any motley crew of figures seem cohesive. I see no reason why this cannot be the case again, barring glaring differences in scale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 15, 2017, 02:16:27 AM
I just knocked together a couple of comparison pics. Now my editing skills are basic and I kept the same ratios from the original images. I matched up the base sizes to each other to see how close the heights were.
Goblin green base rims are a no-no now?
They look quite out of scale, however the new one has high heels and a tall hairdo and the old one is ever so slightly bent. That can't account for too much though can it.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 15, 2017, 02:34:59 AM
Looks like some proper amazons are going to be joining the old gang to me :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on August 15, 2017, 04:44:26 AM
Make space marines that finally tower over normal sized humans?

Make gigantic normal sized humans.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 15, 2017, 06:34:10 AM
lol ridiculous isn't it. Sure angles and might come into that shot but still much larger. Amazons definitely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 15, 2017, 09:50:49 AM
I have an old House Delaque gang that are going to be midgets by the looks of it - Hobbits of the Underhive :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on August 15, 2017, 11:44:42 AM
Maybe this might give the kick up the proverbial I need to get my original metal Goliaths painted after all these years!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 15, 2017, 11:47:13 AM
Who would've thought when this thread was started that we'd be discussing the return of Necromunda on its 500th page? Wonder if Epic is next  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 15, 2017, 11:55:17 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on August 15, 2017, 11:47:13 AM
Who would've thought when this thread was started that we'd be discussing the return of Necromunda on its 500th page? Wonder if Epic is next  :D

You're aware that an 8mm version of Adeptus Titanicus is coming in 2018 right?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 15, 2017, 11:58:12 AM
Quote from: Elbows on August 15, 2017, 11:55:17 AM
You're aware that an 8mm version of Adeptus Titanicus is coming in 2018 right?  lol
Aware yes, in 2018 no. :D
WOnder if they'll extend to a Space Marine style game too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 15, 2017, 12:12:21 PM
Quote from: Elbows on August 15, 2017, 11:55:17 AM
You're aware that an 8mm version of Adeptus Titanicus is coming in 2018 right?  lol

With 15mm Space Maureens, right?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 15, 2017, 12:35:11 PM
Nah, this is where you use your normal non-Primaris marines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 15, 2017, 01:23:06 PM
Getting silly now,won't be long before it's 54 mm one on one gaming  o_o


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 15, 2017, 01:28:39 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on August 15, 2017, 01:23:06 PM
Getting silly now,won't be long before it's 54 mm one on one gaming  o_o

They tried that once, mind...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 15, 2017, 02:25:58 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on August 15, 2017, 01:28:39 PM
They tried that once, mind...
Did they I wouldn't have took any notice of that scale would just assumed they were fancy bookends  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on August 15, 2017, 02:40:33 PM
500 pages of discussion on Games Workshop...  :o

Gosh, we really do love to talk about them, don't we... ?

;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on August 15, 2017, 03:13:32 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 14, 2017, 09:26:10 PM

where the old miniatures and artwork were examples of refinement and realism not seen since Bernini, Of course.


(http://i.imgur.com/GY6iPQA.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/BVzowbO.png)

I'm 25, my first GW exposure was Battlemasters and a smattering of late 90's Warhammer.  Not sure why my critique has to come from a place of nostalgia.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on August 15, 2017, 03:58:45 PM
Anyone would think scale creep had never happened before! Remember when we all played with 25mm miniatures?!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 15, 2017, 04:06:36 PM
Quote from: zemjw on August 15, 2017, 09:50:49 AM
I have an old House Delaque gang that are going to be midgets by the looks of it - Hobbits of the Underhive :D
[/quote
That's got me thinking, I've been messing around with fireforge and hail Caesar miniatures with anvil bolt pistols as bolters for 28mm sci fi ,they could be made into a squat mining gang as their only 3/4 size of current GW 40k stuff  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on August 15, 2017, 04:54:23 PM
I've probably done more 54mm gaming than most on here, and I realize scale creep in terms of height is not a GW thing.  That actually does not overly bother me, aside from the annoyance of older figures gradually looking weirder and more out of place next to newer stuff.  Just not a fan of figures who make The Hulk look well-proportioned.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 15, 2017, 06:03:19 PM
Quote from: 3fingers][quote author=Westfalia Chris on August 15, 2017, 01:28:39 PM
They tried that once, mind...
Did they I wouldn't have took any notice of that scale would just assumed they were fancy bookends  lol[/quote]

For a moment or seriousness, Inquisitor, back in 2001 or 2002. Essentially "heroic" 54mm figures, but it never quite took off, although some folks have done amazing things with it.

Quote from: Captain Blood on August 15, 2017, 02:40:33 PM
500 pages of discussion on Games Workshop...  :o

Gosh, we really do love to talk about them, don't we... ?

;)

Now think of all the threads I would have had to nuke if it wasn't for this grimdark cesspool of scum, villainy (and only war).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on August 15, 2017, 07:29:05 PM
Yes, 500 pages is pretty impressive. Hopefully we don't crash the server with such a large thread  lol

Here is a question that has been nagging me for a while... you often hear reference to brutes such as the goliaths as having/being 'slabs of vat-grown muscle'... is there any actual explanation for what that is? Is the muscle grown in vats and grafted on? Are they just given hormones (possibly developed in vats)? Or maybe they just live in vats and it has a beneficial effect on skeletal muscle development?  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 15, 2017, 08:08:28 PM
Quote from: Timbor on August 15, 2017, 07:29:05 PM
Here is a question that has been nagging me for a while... you often hear reference to brutes such as the goliaths as having/being 'slabs of vat-grown muscle'... is there any actual explanation for what that is? Is the muscle grown in vats and grafted on? Are they just given hormones (possibly developed in vats)? Or maybe they just live in vats and it has a beneficial effect on skeletal muscle development?  o_o

Probably a combination of vat-grown muscle grafted on, steroids, lifting weights, and straight up hard work. It was in the fluff that House Goliath was situated in a particularly harsh area of the hive. Id say that the overwhelming majority of the members of any house are pretty much menial labor or factory workers for the Imperial war machine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 15, 2017, 10:33:20 PM
It wouldn't take that long to genetically select for muscles like that (in mad bonkers sci fi) didn't the fluff have some iffy explanation of house Escher, like their "menfolk" were all bed-ridden flimsy fellows?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 15, 2017, 11:37:17 PM
yep
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on August 16, 2017, 10:39:53 AM
On the subject of the 500 pages (and growing), we've recently had a number of threads closed where it would, in my opinion at least, have been beneficial to keep separate.

Consider the Necromunda thread. There is product to discuss and information on new rules structures. People interested in discussing this have to wade through a lot of bumf on here to find something which is pertinent to their gaming. Now I'm not looking to start an argument or anything, but it may be worth reconsidering how best to allow future discussion of GW games. Whether personally you like them or not, a load of people play and want to discuss in a positive manner. I appreciate that there are some who will try their best to derail any thread into needless GW bashing and that this in some way curtails that but it's not helping long term is it? Particularly given the recent increases in positive discussion.

Whilst not an ideal situation either, can those that be, consider having at least sub threads for individual GW games to allow meaningful discussion on those specific games and allow this to be for 'general' discussion? Again, I appreciate that this may lead to some cross posting but that happens a lot with a fair chunk of other games on this page anyway.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 16, 2017, 12:35:15 PM
Quote from: Mr Brown on August 16, 2017, 10:39:53 AM
On the subject of the 500 pages (and growing), we've recently had a number of threads closed where it would, in my opinion at least, have been beneficial to keep separate.

Consider the Necromunda thread. There is product to discuss and information on new rules structures. People interested in discussing this have to wade through a lot of bumf on here to find something which is pertinent to their gaming. Now I'm not looking to start an argument or anything, but it may be worth reconsidering how best to allow future discussion of GW games. Whether personally you like them or not, a load of people play and want to discuss in a positive manner. I appreciate that there are some who will try their best to derail any thread into needless GW bashing and that this in some way curtails that but it's not helping long term is it? Particularly given the recent increases in positive discussion.

Whilst not an ideal situation either, can those that be, consider having at least sub threads for individual GW games to allow meaningful discussion on those specific games and allow this to be for 'general' discussion? Again, I appreciate that this may lead to some cross posting but that happens a lot with a fair chunk of other games on this page anyway.



As far as I know, there is no actual Necromunda product yet, so discussing rules would most likely be idle speculation. One the product has been released or is imminent, specific threads on rule discussion and miniatures as well as actual hobby projects will be more than welcome.

Time and again discussions like these escalated to lockdown level quickly simply because there was nothing actual to discuss. With GW in particular, it seemed to always bring out the worst. In light of why we installed the GW thread in the first place, I am not inclined to get down that road again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on August 16, 2017, 12:59:58 PM
Ok fair enough.

Product has been shown officially be GW and includes both painted and unpainted versions of at least 4 models to show the two factions in the new starter box. There have also been a number of statements by GW on their official media feeds to give an insight into the rules they are planning.

I can't see how this is any different from discussing a new planned Osprey rule set for example. Ok I can see the argument that the authors for some of these games actually comment on the threads in question but it seems like there isn't consistency. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 16, 2017, 01:30:11 PM
Quote from: Mr Brown on August 16, 2017, 12:59:58 PM
Ok fair enough.

Product has been shown officially be GW and includes both painted and unpainted versions of at least 4 models to show the two factions in the new starter box. There have also been a number of statements by GW on their official media feeds to give an insight into the rules they are planning.

I can't see how this is any different from discussing a new planned Osprey rule set for example. Ok I can see the argument that the authors for some of these games actually comment on the threads in question but it seems like there isn't consistency.  

Duplicate threads get locked, too, regardless of topic. Intersecting threads are decided on a case-by-case basis. And blatantly, Osprey Games never caused us to have to moderate several dozen threads all dripping with GW bashing and blatant personal attacks. The scope and scale of argument the discussion of GW Topics incited, unless there was actually a Project behind it, was unparalleled and let to the concentration of "discussion of pre-release topics and general GW policy" in a single thread.

To repeat, once the release is imminent, I'd say a specific Necromunda discussion thread is fair game. Once people actually know what they are discussing. GW, their fans and foes are why we cannot have nice things.

People should also remember that, while the vast majority of members appreciate good GW-related projects on artistic merit alone, the LAF never had a dominant Games Workshop focus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on August 16, 2017, 01:33:51 PM
There's a classic discussion over on dakka, about whether the new necromunda figures scale with the old, about how people like/dislike the snippets of rules, and (classic) the moral implications of producing figures with peaked hoods, even though there's been no reveal as yet on new figures. Is that the kind of thing you want to discuss?  ;)

Personally, I think a separate thread would be an appropriate place to froth/ponder/complain, it doesn't make sense to me having a giant 500 page thread on absolutely everything GW. There isn't a similar one for Warlord/Perry/Victrix/whoever - and GW are now producing a bigger range of product which, to my mind, merit their own discussion.

My tuppence.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 16, 2017, 01:45:31 PM
To be honest that would be awesome in comparison with reducing whole Necromunda discussion to "why our thread was closed and we got dumped to silly 500 page GW general thread about nothing where old timers have funny yet not very relevant chats*" I see here.. o_o

 this move kinda killed the N discussion anyway..


*(I have pleasure reading such chats but they are hardly relevant to Necromunda news and nobody will find any information they are looking for browsing through whole thread  from hell you we here)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Gray Ghost on August 16, 2017, 02:02:23 PM
GW does that so you have to go out and buy all new figures

Quote from: Hupp n at em on August 15, 2017, 04:54:23 PM
   aside from the annoyance of older figures gradually looking weirder and more out of place next to newer stuff.  Just not a fan of figures who make The Hulk look well-proportioned.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 16, 2017, 02:55:33 PM
Necromunda reboot looks really promising so far, but I really want to get my hands on it before judging it.

I guess simply put once product is available, as with AOS - people will post happily with lots of separate threads and discussions as normal depicting what they do with the product, opinions and work etc.

AOS cleanly falls under Fantasy stuff, and not Future war stuff or similar I know. But

I like much of what people have posted about AOS and some of it has changed my opinion of it slightly. A lot of it is frankly showing stunning work and really interesting battle reports, with others providing excellent critique of its failings.

But all the different things people are doing with it, does not to me work as part of a single AOS thread, nor is there really enough to push it into its own sub-forum? others may differ with me there of course.

I guess similar with Necromunda reboot to be the honest.

If its really popular, once its out that it merits similar treatment to say Frostgrave maybe gets  a subsection of its own, that's fair too. And welcome.

Otherwise  lots of peoples posts start appearing in Future Wars section or whatever

Or even maybe a  "GW Specialist games" section for all the special GW stuff, who knows.

I can understand it in that anything GW does can generate lots of varied views and opinions and to a greater extent why its possibly better to keep a lid on it until full release of the game
 
We are all very passionate about our hobby, and that shows sometimes in how quickly some discussions escalate in unexpected directions. so maybe a little limiting for a short period until there's more than mostly speculation and titbits to work on is ok?

Especially when involving GW. This master thread although not perfect, has for a long time worked mostly very well in containing the passions they stir, good and bad, in a lot of us.

I really look forward to seeing what others do with Necromunda when it's released. In lots of separate posts.

But what I really want to see is New Epic stuff though, but sadly that's going 8mm anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on August 16, 2017, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: AWu on August 16, 2017, 01:45:31 PM
To be honest that would be awesome in comparison with reducing whole Necromunda discussion to "why our thread was closed and we got dumped to silly 500 page GW general thread about nothing where old timers have funny yet not very relevant chats*" I see here.. o_o

 this move kinda killed the N discussion anyway..


*(I have pleasure reading such chats but they are hardly relevant to Necromunda news and nobody will find any information they are looking for browsing through whole thread  from hell you we here)

Well, as much as I do understand the concerns and reasons for locking down the Necromunda thread, this step also for me has killed the discussion. Instead of some nostalgic blabla about the best/worst of Necromunda now/then, it's now part of a 500+ pages monster on everything GW.

If it was just a mere rumor thread, I would have understood, but to bring a prominent example, Necromunda is very much in the same stage (or more advanced since they got actually painted minis) than the Batman game currently developed by Monolith and the latest Frostgrave stuff. Yet both are not mixed up (with Conan, Mythic Battles or Dracula's America and everything Northstar/Osprey).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on August 17, 2017, 08:33:34 PM
I've only been lurking for a while, but I've noticed that when people post something they did hobby wise they can discuss any aspect of it they want and things stay civil and productive.  If you've got something to say about the new necromunda, make some sci-fi urban terrain and put a paragraph in there.  I think people will respond well to both the terrain and the discussion in treads like that.  I've just noticed a trend on any message board related to GW that discussing in a vacuum is where the fighting happens while discussing in relation to hobby activity is where respectful dialogue happens.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Wirelizard on August 17, 2017, 08:41:03 PM
Quote from: chamberlain on August 17, 2017, 08:33:34 PM
I've only been lurking for a while, but I've noticed that when people post something they did hobby wise they can discuss any aspect of it they want and things stay civil and productive.  If you've got something to say about the new necromunda, make some sci-fi urban terrain and put a paragraph in there.  I think people will respond well to both the terrain and the discussion in treads like that.  I've just noticed a trend on any message board related to GW that discussing in a vacuum is where the fighting happens while discussing in relation to hobby activity is where respectful dialogue happens.

^^^ That right there. That's why this thread exists and why the mods do those mod things that they do. There's a metric tonne of GW-related hobby threads bubbling along quite productively all over LAF, the straight discussion stuff gets funneled here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 17, 2017, 09:01:13 PM
Quote from: chamberlain on August 17, 2017, 08:33:34 PM
I've only been lurking for a while, but I've noticed that when people post something they did hobby wise they can discuss any aspect of it they want and things stay civil and productive.  If you've got something to say about the new necromunda, make some sci-fi urban terrain and put a paragraph in there.  I think people will respond well to both the terrain and the discussion in treads like that.  I've just noticed a trend on any message board related to GW that discussing in a vacuum is where the fighting happens while discussing in relation to hobby activity is where respectful dialogue happens.

You seem very reasonable for a Skeksis ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on August 18, 2017, 12:03:42 AM
I wonder if the new Necromunda rules will end up being close enough to either Shadow War: Armageddon or 40k 2nd edition that it'd be easy enough to use that as a basis for a Skeksis, Garthim and Crystal Bat (well, maybe some poling slaves as well) warband.  Got to keep that prophecy from coming true.  Even in the 41st millennium.

Though my local gaming people have figured out that 8th edition 40k and then that Age of Sigmar skirmish supplement work pretty well together.  It's a bit more relaxed and less tactical than shadow war with its pinning mechanic punishing mistakes so thoroughly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cait Sidhe on August 18, 2017, 11:10:39 AM
Quote from: chamberlain on August 18, 2017, 12:03:42 AM
I wonder if the new Necromunda rules will end up being close enough to either Shadow War: Armageddon or 40k 2nd edition

From earlier in this gigantic thread (and also in the closed Necromunda discussion thread):

Quote
So we are broadly looking at a game based on the 8th Edition 40k mechanics, but tailored to skirmish warfare. We see the addition of Action Points, that can be used to activate gangers in a similar way to how Space Hulk works. Different actions will cost different points, such as activating a Heavy will cost two Action Points, whereas your run of the mill Ganger will cost only one.

I also saw some chat somewhere about group activation with leaders kinda like Frostgrave. Sounding good to be honest, IGOUGO is a really outdated mechanic these days (unless there's some kind of reactions system to balance it like Infinity) so good to see it ditched.

I'm just concerned about how the campaign system is gonna work... as far as I heard the Shadow War system is basically just choose a model to give a new ability to after each game. Hoping they've not dumbed it down to that kind of level...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 18, 2017, 12:29:02 PM
For anyone interested, HMO collectables, Makers of very nice and expensive statues and character sculpts, Have just got the license to make 1/6th scale 40k statues from GW.

These will no doubt be expensive as all hell but sodding gorgeous to look at.

Also I'm really enthusiastic about the way GW are spreading their IP to smaller companies.
It feels like a show of support for the wider industry from GW ,and a noted change from their isolationism.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on August 18, 2017, 09:51:17 PM
Quote from: Cait Sidhe on August 18, 2017, 11:10:39 AM
I also saw some chat somewhere about group activation with leaders kinda like Frostgrave. Sounding good to be honest, IGOUGO is a really outdated mechanic these days (unless there's some kind of reactions system to balance it like Infinity) so good to see it ditched.

I'm just concerned about how the campaign system is gonna work... as far as I heard the Shadow War system is basically just choose a model to give a new ability to after each game. Hoping they've not dumbed it down to that kind of level...

It's definitely a downside to the big thread to lose things in the multiple pages.  Don't know how I didn't see that.  Thanks!

I agree that IGOUGO is out dated.  Though to be fair lots of non-IGOUGO turn structures are just as old (appearing alongside IGOUGO in all sorts of early 60s wargaming rules and newsletters).  What I don't like is people not playing a game when they play a game.  It's why i find the original necromunda rules quite dissatisfying.  It's far more tactical than other warhammer games and it really punishes new players for mistakes and they can have entire turns where they do nothing as stuff actually in contact with the enemy is all pinned.  It's cool that it rewards skill and all that, but for new players and people just looking for a laugh, sitting there either from IGOUGO or everything pinned is just boring.

It's entirely possible that the new necromunda, if it does turn out to be sufficiently like 8th edition, plus the index book imperial 2 will be my go to 40k skirmish rules going forward.

I've of two minds for the campaign system.  I've played 500+ games of league bloodbowl (in person).  I've now hit the point where I have zero patience for teams getting ground away with injuries and deaths.  I've done it enough and I just don't enjoy it any more.  Perhaps something like the hinterlands 2.1 document on The Grand Alliance for Age of Sigmar skirmish will be compatible with the new Necromunda?  It has an experience point system, I believe.

I've started looking at miniatures for some 40k sci-fi skeskis.  Looking like taking hunched robed reaper bones and adding the triangular shoulder dress and then swapping limbs and heads will work.  I'm sure I can find vulture heads somewhere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on August 18, 2017, 10:17:08 PM
Quote from: chamberlain on August 18, 2017, 09:51:17 PM
I've started looking at miniatures for some 40k sci-fi skeskis.  Looking like taking hunched robed reaper bones and adding the triangular shoulder dress and then swapping limbs and heads will work.  I'm sure I can find vulture heads somewhere.

Wargods of Aegyptus Nekharu are ideal: https://www.crocodilegames.com/store/itemList.cfm?catID=25&sort=prodID
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Timbor on August 19, 2017, 06:22:19 AM
Has there been much mention yet of the blightwar nurgle thingy coming up for AoS?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/17/nurgle-rises-in-the-mortal-realms-aug-16gw-homepage-post-1/

Looks like Nurgle will be getting chaos snails! (according to internet detectives)

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e8d83d11d20047c692e4f66a8dfcc77d71b76b3704ca723b9b5224a2c47229ce.jpg)
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7bb17fdb776178225759de7f3cf882b9877e886b84a260599c0b9047827c0df4.jpg)

Interesting to see how it turns out once it is revealed. I can't help but think that Scibor miniatures did it first though...

Maybe they will send GW a CnD, perhaps?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2017, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: Timbor on August 19, 2017, 06:22:19 AM

Maybe they will send GW a CnD, perhaps?  lol

That depends, Does he already have a C&D letter he can take a pressmould from?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 19, 2017, 10:12:04 PM
Quote from: Scurv on August 19, 2017, 08:14:21 PM
Ok, that was one of the best minis snarks I have ever read!

To be clear, I think Scibor is an amazing sculptor when he's working on things he's enthusiastic about, But it's very clear that he's found a way to churn stuff out for maximum profit. I can't say i wouldn't do the same because I absolutely would.His commissions and custom work are great, A really talented figurative sculptor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on August 19, 2017, 11:54:45 PM
Dragonsnails! Greg Stafford(he of Runequest) may have something to say about that...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on August 20, 2017, 12:04:49 AM
Quote from: Blackwolf on August 19, 2017, 11:54:45 PM
Dragonsnails! Greg Stafford(he of Runequest) may have something to say about that...

I mean, about half of Warhammer's Chaos is lifted wholesale from Glorantha. What's one more thing? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 20, 2017, 01:00:46 AM
Oh, Have we mentioned that World of tanks are going to be doing a bunch of 40k vehicles? I don't know how the game works but I'm sure there's going to be alot of fun in sending a bunch of shermans up against a landraider.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on August 20, 2017, 03:44:20 PM
(https://i.redd.it/qmhts4n42wgz.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 20, 2017, 04:19:24 PM
Daftest warhammer figure ever?

(https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/AoS-Blightwar-Image3ntoixs-e1503084982282.jpg)

But also one of the most fun.

From a new Nurgle vs Stormcast box set. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/20/blightwar-new-rules-new-models-and-moregw-homepage-post-2/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/20/blightwar-new-rules-new-models-and-moregw-homepage-post-2/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 20, 2017, 05:00:06 PM
 lol lol lol

I actually like that.
Not as a serious gaming figure but it is a bit of fun nonetheless.

Of course, it will probably look less fun when I see the price tag......

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on August 20, 2017, 06:23:37 PM
I am definitely getting that set!!!

I think it is made for me. Wonderful.

I have been paying gw so much money lately that my head is spinning.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 20, 2017, 06:29:48 PM
Did one of the oldhammer players swap the designs for the grimplague pusscrawler for this amazingly smiley thing?
 lol

Also that plant on the back.. "little shop, little shop of horrors..."


EDit:
NEW STARTER SET? that slipped under the radar! I have some stormcasts i've been meanign to turn into an army and I've always loved nurgle... god damn it GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on August 20, 2017, 06:31:24 PM
Wow! That is so awesomely stupid, it's actually reaching regions of stupidity that are way beyond awesome. Maybe even ...wait here it comes...legendary!

That thing is incredible. Could be right out of a Moorcock novel. The snail-king of Slurpina-va-Niak!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 20, 2017, 06:34:17 PM
And a cool female stormcast assassin with a badass haircut and decent face sculpt...

I like it.
(http://i.imgur.com/iRhUwMb.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 20, 2017, 06:57:25 PM
I may grab one of those too, as I need a female Stormcast for this little idea that I have had and that would save me time converting one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 20, 2017, 07:15:19 PM
Quote from: Mason on August 20, 2017, 06:57:25 PM
I may grab one of those too, as I need a female Stormcast for this little idea that I have had and that would save me time converting one.


You could also wait till October for Shadespire to launch and get the Angharad Brightshield miniature. since it's a smaller boxed game and GW are targeting the x-wing market it may prove cheaper.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 20, 2017, 07:48:28 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 20, 2017, 07:15:19 PM
You could also wait till October for Shadespire to launch and get the Angharad Brightshield miniature. since it's a smaller boxed game and GW are targeting the x-wing market it may prove cheaper.

Thanks for the tip off, as I had not even heard of that one.
Not too bothered which, so long as it is fairly cheap.
As both of them will be in a boxed set I will just wait until one of the 'set-splitters' gives a decent price on ebay.
Nice to know that there will be options.
 :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 20, 2017, 08:27:26 PM
Not as daft as the Space Wolf flying chariot thing...

Love the figure, the anchor thing has me cracking up along with Audrey 2.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 20, 2017, 08:42:21 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on August 20, 2017, 08:27:26 PM
Not as daft as the Space Wolf flying chariot thing...

Love the figure, the anchor thing has me cracking up along with Audrey 2.

I Think the anchor is meant to be a plough so that nurgles top gardener can plans seeds as he goes and leave a trail of beautiful rotting flowers and sentient living dead trees.



I like to look of the decay/growth wheel that comes with the blightwar set, Adds some narrative fun to the game. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 20, 2017, 09:00:41 PM
Lol still cool but I like the idea that it's to stop him going too fast!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 20, 2017, 09:05:51 PM
That Nurgle beastie is great! Really captures the comic fun-loving aspect of Nurgle creatures. I haven't kept up with the fluff for a long time, but the old descriptions e.g of Beasts energetically bounding around looking for new friends fit with this mini perfectly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 20, 2017, 09:31:36 PM
I think it's the pose of the plague bearer I like the best. Sculptor totally nailed it. That and the happy snail.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 20, 2017, 09:58:40 PM
The legs of the beastie are a tiny bit reminiscent of the old metal beast of Nurgle; the rest is fun all the way.
I too have been thinking of some Nurgley stuff which can also go with my 40k Plague marines, and a handful of the Stormcast - I have a handful and they're fun to paint if you don't obsess over the detail - and this fits the bill.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on August 20, 2017, 11:19:02 PM
I don't understand why people like Nurgle and his minions, he never appealed to me.
But man, I do want that snailthing. I would probably convert it to be less nurgleish though.
The female stormcast is nice as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 21, 2017, 01:25:09 AM
Definitely too far on the "fun" scale to interest me.  It seems like a caricature of a wargaming miniature.  Luckily I'm not the target audience.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 21, 2017, 10:49:52 AM
Quote from: Elbows on August 21, 2017, 01:25:09 AM
Definitely too far on the "fun" scale to interest me.  It seems like a caricature of a wargaming miniature.  Luckily I'm not the target audience.

Ditto. I'll leave this particular flavour of fun to those who will enjoy it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on August 21, 2017, 12:00:31 PM
Quote from: Elbows on August 21, 2017, 01:25:09 AM
Definitely too far on the "fun" scale to interest me.  It seems like a caricature of a wargaming miniature.  Luckily I'm not the target audience.



It begs the question: So why bother?  8)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 21, 2017, 12:25:09 PM
In the vague and remote hope that GW starts to do market research and gets an inkling that some people want to play a wargame and not Alice in Wonderland?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 21, 2017, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: Elbows on August 21, 2017, 12:25:09 PM
In the vague and remote hope that GW starts to do market research and gets an inkling that some people want to play a wargame and not Alice in Wonderland?  lol
A war game set in wonderland would be rather interesting, although probably not to the Reverend's taste...  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 21, 2017, 01:30:09 PM
American McGee's Alice would be an interesting start for sure.  Great creepy game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 21, 2017, 02:11:58 PM
Quote from: Elbows on August 21, 2017, 01:30:09 PM
American McGee's Alice would be an interesting start for sure.  Great creepy game.

Every time I hear his name I always think it sounds like the sort of phrase i would use to dismiss someone as overly steryotypically american.

"hey, did you hear what happened in the states?"
"I dunno, Did some American Mcgee deep fry a gun?"

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 21, 2017, 02:22:56 PM
Actually, am I the only one who gets a Kingdom Death vibe off that slug?

I mean; obvioulsy the legs are just legs and not penises and the demon on top is sexless instead of sporting more boobs than a Juan Diaz Daemonette, but I still have the feeling some clues were had there...

And a dozen(?) pages ago I mentioned that GW is bringing the wink back into 40K, after everything went over the top grimdark with 3rd edition. Looks like I'm right; this will certainly earn a few chuckles each game.

Oh; and Little Shop of Horrors? I was thinking Super Mario myself... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on August 21, 2017, 03:01:54 PM
I won't be buying it, but fair play to gw nice to see them put s bit of fun back into fantasy
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on August 21, 2017, 05:39:15 PM
I like both characters actually, although I'd prefer the slug to look less cheerful and more wretched/glum. Either way, I think these are a "buy" for me. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 21, 2017, 06:19:32 PM
As always, 4chan has given me a few solid laughs.

I'm actually amazed how well this release has been received, It makes me think that AOS has been successful in attracting a more fun narrative focused player base.

(http://i.imgur.com/MiC3ELP.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/IG3ctGC.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 22, 2017, 10:58:05 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 21, 2017, 02:11:58 PM
Every time I hear his name I always think it sounds like the sort of phrase i would use to dismiss someone as overly steryotypically american.

"hey, did you hear what happened in the states?"
"I dunno, Did some American Mcgee deep fry a gun?"


lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 23, 2017, 03:20:36 PM
The new female Stormcast is really nice, but I'm not going to buy an entire box game to get her.

When is GW going to start releasing females in unit sets or hero boxes?

It's about the only thing I would buy now to add to my collection.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ninefingers on August 24, 2017, 06:35:38 AM
Quote from: Scurv on August 23, 2017, 04:01:55 PM
that is a pandora's box you have opened there. People lose their shit when you say GW needs more females. (Be it gamers or figures!)
But why aren't there more female smurfs?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on August 24, 2017, 06:45:54 AM
Quote from: Scurv on August 23, 2017, 04:01:55 PM
that is a pandora's box you have opened there. People lose their shit when you say GW needs more females. (Be it gamers or figures!)

Let's not do this one AGAIN. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 24, 2017, 09:16:29 AM
Whu? But I had a whole rant about boob armour!

Pfff ... no fair ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 24, 2017, 11:24:47 AM
Store it for next week; it'll come up again... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 24, 2017, 11:43:31 AM
That one is brilliant  lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on August 24, 2017, 11:51:23 AM
Quote from: Scurv on August 23, 2017, 04:01:55 PM
that is a pandora's box you have opened there. People lose their shit when you say GW needs more females. (Be it gamers or figures!)

Couldn't care less.

Like I say, there are the only Stormcast minis I'm willing to add to my collection.



Corrected. Thank you. Don't mean to be an ass, but much of the aforementioned squabbling I found to be silly. To each his own.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 24, 2017, 01:48:56 PM
Couldn't care less*

Well the first crack in the new GW armour has appeared.  Rob (the bearded fella who teamed with Duncan on Warhammer TV) has parted with GW.  I'd like to imagine it was for some reason other than GW clamping down on his opinions/etc...but I suspect not.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 24, 2017, 01:58:47 PM
What were his opinions?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 24, 2017, 02:13:25 PM
Quote from: Elbows on August 24, 2017, 01:48:56 PM
Couldn't care less*

Well the first crack in the new GW armour has appeared.  Rob (the bearded fella who teamed with Duncan on Warhammer TV) has parted with GW.  I'd like to imagine it was for some reason other than GW clamping down on his opinions/etc...but I suspect not.


They have been advertising his job for a while, Maybe he only wanted to do it for a short while, Or they got him in to kickstart it all as a short time thing with a view to having a revolving cast?
Shame because I found robs commentary during the live sessions to be really funny.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 24, 2017, 07:00:35 PM
Plastic Sisters Plastic Sisters Plastic Sisters

Come on, say it with me!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 24, 2017, 07:11:16 PM
So on their facebook page GW are giving away 100 £25 web vouchers for anyone that has already subscribed to their newsletter or subscribes before september 1st.
I had to do a double take, I really did.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on August 24, 2017, 11:03:33 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 24, 2017, 07:00:35 PM
Plastic Sisters Plastic Sisters Plastic Sisters

Come on, say it with me!
Honestly, if they finally release some and do a good job of it, I wouldn't be able to throw my money at them fast enough.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 25, 2017, 10:28:10 AM
I just discovered classic plastic chaos marines in a sealed box at my parents place. What do you guys say, open em up and revel in the nostalgia or sell em off?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 25, 2017, 10:30:08 AM
Quote from: YPU on August 25, 2017, 10:28:10 AM
I just discovered classic plastic chaos marines in a sealed box at my parents place. What do you guys say, open em up and revel in the nostalgia or sell em off?

Open the box, sniff the nostalgia.....and then sell 'em.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on August 25, 2017, 10:50:11 AM
Quote from: Mason on August 25, 2017, 10:30:08 AM
Open the box, sniff the nostalgia.....and then sell 'em.
 ;)




I agree. Plastic Chaos Warriors and some of the 2nd gen. Multipart plastics were cool, but afaik the marines didn't age that well. Inhale nostalgia and then cheer at the price they'll make in the bay!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on August 25, 2017, 11:00:34 AM
They were good those chaos warriors, bizarre physiques though. It's a shame they've abandoned the teutonic aspect of chaos warriors, I'd love to see an update on that kit (a sort of 'chaos undivided' take on the khorne kits I guess).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on August 25, 2017, 02:29:06 PM
Quote from: YPU on August 25, 2017, 10:28:10 AM
I just discovered classic plastic chaos marines in a sealed box at my parents place. What do you guys say, open em up and revel in the nostalgia or sell em off?

Join the Oldhammer trading group on Facebook, post a pic of something clearly not 'Oldhammer' and ask 'What this? How much?'.  lol

Pet peeve aside, I'd just open the damn things and paint them up in a fit of nostalgia.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 25, 2017, 03:49:36 PM
http://ninjadivision.com/ninja-division-signs-license-with-games-workshop/


Games workshop has handed out another third party contract, This time to Ninja Division for a boxed card game.

Description from link :
Ninja Division has signed a license with Games Workshop to create a card game under the Warhammer Fantasy property for the tabletop games market.

DOOMSEEKER™

Doomseeker is a tabletop card game, created by David Freeman and John Cadice, where players take on the role of a mighty dwarf slayer. Each player’s character is sworn by the slayer’s oath to seek a glorious death in battle for a crime committed or stain on that dwarf’s honor.  The slayers eschew worldly pursuits, dye their beards and hair in fierce and fiery reds and oranges, tattoo their ruddy flesh, take up their weapons, and wander the old world seeking their doom battling monsters and enemies of their race.

The Doomseeker card game pits players against one another to see who can die the most glorious death! Push your luck, challenge the denizens and monsters of the Old World, with each victory bringing you more glory, and ultimately your death can be met at the hands of a truly worthy foe! Slotted for release in Spring 2018, Doomseeker will be a boxed card game with cards, dice, and tokens needed to play.



I know I've said it before, But I am really excited about gw's new attitude to smaller developers. I'm sure there's an element of hedging their bets, But giving smaller companies a big IP to play with and gain some exposure from speaks to me of a real passion and desire to support the wider tabletop industry. Also the game sounds pretty fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 25, 2017, 06:20:30 PM
It's also a shrewd, low risk move for GW. They sell the licensing rights, and if the thing is a flop, well, that's on the affiliate company and not GW.

They'll probably do loads of these little deals and just run with the few that actually catch fire.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 25, 2017, 06:54:34 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 25, 2017, 06:20:30 PM
It's also a shrewd, low risk move for GW. They sell the licensing rights, and if the thing is a flop, well, that's on the affiliate company and not GW.

They'll probably do loads of these little deals and just run with the few that actually catch fire.

Of course, It saves them having another FFG style break where they suddenly have no third party partners, But when you consider that they could just bring it all in house or hand it off to someone like Piazo or similar then the path they've taken seems like a beneficial one for everyone involved.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 25, 2017, 07:46:31 PM
Yep, I think it was last year or the year before (possibly both) where the main thing keeping GW afloat was income from licensing agreements (phone app games, video games etc.).  It's a good revenue flow for them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 25, 2017, 07:49:12 PM
Quote from: Elbows on August 25, 2017, 07:46:31 PM
Yep, I think it was last year or the year before (possibly both) where the main thing keeping GW afloat was income from licensing agreements (phone app games, video games etc.).  It's a good revenue flow for them.

They've said themselves that their IP is their most valuable product. It makes sense for them to ahnd out alot of smaller contracts, They get more time to work on their core games and expand new ones whilst also having more control over the way each individual third party product reflects their IP.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 25, 2017, 08:20:50 PM
Having deals with more small companies instead of one bigger one also gives them more leverage with the licensees. FFG is big enough that they could tell GW to take a walk instead of the usual situation, which is the other way around. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 25, 2017, 09:06:19 PM
Which is what will probably happen if any of the licences prove too profitable/successful
.
When the licence runs out GW can simply take over on the back of someone else' hard work getting it off of the ground, or simply raise the price for renewal.

Win-win all round for them, I reckon.
.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 27, 2017, 09:32:57 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on August 25, 2017, 02:29:06 PM
Join the Oldhammer trading group on Facebook, post a pic of something clearly not 'Oldhammer' and ask 'What this? How much?'.  lol

Pet peeve aside, I'd just open the damn things and paint them up in a fit of nostalgia.  :)
lol yeah or try an sell something that you can still buy from GW   ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shamash-Bel on August 27, 2017, 10:15:22 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 25, 2017, 06:20:30 PM
It's also a shrewd, low risk move for GW. They sell the licensing rights, and if the thing is a flop, well, that's on the affiliate company and not GW.

They'll probably do loads of these little deals and just run with the few that actually catch fire.

It also means that the smaller companies can play with game mechanics whilst knowing they will get a certain percentage of sales (since there are people out there who will buy ANYTHING Warhammer).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JArgo on August 28, 2017, 07:23:47 AM
Warhammer Historical

We were playing Legends of the Old West yesterday and the conversation turned to the whole Historicals series.

In the spirit of the new GW we wondered why GW don't rerelease the books as PDF's?

They could start with the best sellers to see how it goes and in comparison to the crazy prices old issues go for secondhand, they'd be good value and maybe snapped up.

Where's the downside for GW?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on August 28, 2017, 07:51:46 AM
Since GW don't sell any historical minis, it would only boost the sales of their competitors (other miniature manufacturers) and perhaps turn ppl playing historicals and not GW products. And since GW can't have IP over historical names etc, they could 't protect their interests in that field either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on August 28, 2017, 08:42:14 AM
Quote from: JArgo on August 28, 2017, 07:23:47 AM
Warhammer Historical

We were playing Legends of the Old West yesterday and the conversation turned to the whole Historicals series.

In the spirit of the new GW we wondered why GW don't rerelease the books as PDF's?

They could start with the best sellers to see how it goes and in comparison to the crazy prices old issues go for secondhand, they'd be good value and maybe snapped up.

Where's the downside for GW?

Selling a product with a picture of non GW models or terrain in it is a big nono for a company trying to promote themselves as all inclusive holistic "the hobby" devoid of any competitor
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 28, 2017, 01:03:44 PM
Yep, while it would make tons of sense to sell that line again and make money off of it --- they've left that option in the dust.  Even the new 40K codices no longer have any entries (even weapon options) which are not actual models released by Games Workshop.  The days of converting weapon load-outs for your Space Marine captain are at an end.  This is probably their worst move as a company (despite generally getting better and better recently).

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on August 29, 2017, 08:47:39 AM
Surely it would be silly for any manufacturer to promote a competing product? Also, did their historical books sell really that well in the first place and would it really be worth them diverting funds to do a reprint?



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on August 29, 2017, 08:55:51 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on August 29, 2017, 08:47:39 AM
Surely it would be silly for any manufacturer to promote a competing product? Also, did their historical books sell really that well in the first place and would it really be worth them diverting funds to do a reprint?





Plenty of people cross promote and give credit to other companies in their books. GW like to consider themselves existing in a world devoid of all other gaming, so that's the image that they promote.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on August 29, 2017, 10:50:51 AM
Quote from: Kitsune on August 29, 2017, 08:55:51 AM
Plenty of people cross promote and give credit to other companies in their books. GW like to consider themselves existing in a world devoid of all other gaming, so that's the image that they promote.

There's plenty of cross promotion of products out there but I think that tends to be more for complimentary products rather than competing ones. GW aren't in the historical market anyway and I don't know why the even stepped foot in that genre. They're making leaps and bounds with the new 40K and a reinvigorated AoS so no need to give historics a thought from a business standpoint.

I would disagree that GW think they exist in a bubble. They may have thought that way in the past but that really doesn't appear to be the case now. You can happily mention other games to store staff and not be blanked. Someone mentioned gaming up at Warhammer World and how much gamers and staff alike were chatting about other games and companies. Look at GW's increased presence at various cons too. They're back in the community of gaming and seem well aware that they can't deny the broader hobby. If anything, the changes with GW we've seen over the past two years shows how aware they are of their competitors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on August 29, 2017, 01:02:54 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on August 29, 2017, 10:50:51 AM
GW aren't in the historical market anyway and I don't know why the even stepped foot in that genre.

From what I remember it was a personal project from the game designers that went a bit further than planned.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 29, 2017, 11:44:01 PM
Quote from: voltan on August 29, 2017, 01:02:54 PM
From what I remember it was a personal project from the game designers that went a bit further than planned.

Yeah, half the "old guard" were/are avid historical players. I heard a funny story that the studio had to ban staff from painting historical figures in their lunch breaks.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on August 30, 2017, 12:41:43 AM
From what I can tell all the historical fans pretty much ended up in warlord games lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 30, 2017, 01:52:13 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on August 30, 2017, 12:41:43 AM
From what I can tell all the historical fans pretty much ended up in warlord games lol.

If you look deep enough on warlords site you can find a bunch of posts from their early days about them hosting games of warhammer historical at games day and thanking GW for their help...It's all very strange...


On the bright side last time I was at WW the staff and I had a good conversation about all the local games companies and how nice their miniatures are.I was told that the old line of "don't ask don't tell" with regards to other companies has since been removed, So whilst they won't say "hey, go buy these instead" they will say "yeah I play bolt action, It's fun!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 31, 2017, 02:02:54 AM
Well if i wasn't sold already then the funky riffs and pissed off cockney accent have tipped me over the edge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=23&v=xwD6Z7GzGxI

EDit:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/31/a-closer-look-at-necromundagw-homepage-post-2/

GW are releasing news so fast it's becoming stressful to try and post it !

Necromunda playable as a tile style dungeon/tunnel game and 3d multi level game.
Tiles in the game look cool, card versions of the zone mortalis board with some plastic scenery that pays homage to the old necro bulkheads.
figures are all multi part plastics, custimisable right down to the hair(!)

Also orcs for shadespire,
New AoS campaign coming with death model revealed,
Chapter approved coming,
Warhammer heroes award for nominated local hobby heroes.
And the pain app looks pretty good. (lets you pick colours from photos and tells you which colours to mix to make them.Basic colour work but can be useful.it does other stuff too.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 31, 2017, 04:07:57 AM
Well after seeing what is in the boxed set I am hoping for them to release a rulebook by itself. Sewer sections don't really scream underhive to me. That way I will be able to look at the new rules with my old gangs and my old terrain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on August 31, 2017, 04:32:27 AM
Separate eBook and I'll take a look, but don't really like the miniatures or tiles enough to buy the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on August 31, 2017, 09:03:48 AM
Quote from: nic-e on August 31, 2017, 02:02:54 AM
...pissed off cockney accent

Made me want to Van Gogh myself!

Sold on the game though  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 31, 2017, 11:31:18 AM
I really liked the preview artwork of the Escher leader, a real through back to Blanches Amzonette painting from waaaaaaaay back in the past of time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 31, 2017, 11:57:56 AM


Rulebook looks smalish. I wonder if it will have full campaign or they will BloodBowl it.
But I was sold on anything Necro with minis since 1996 so...

Pity our thread was gutted
(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21231998_10155669150768236_2586339346572294021_n.jpg?oh=7c07a52f6a060b04108469ac57aa44d8&oe=5A5EB3B8)

Gals Boltgun/Needler is strange but her whip is best GW made so far
(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21192315_10155669153383236_2835836395289349698_n.jpg?oh=957f8124343bd8d8c151f6d9a00b5676&oe=5A28AE63)

Goliath look too uniform near the Escher IMHO (I guess thats a boon of modular hairstyles :P
But I like them, They will see a ton of uses in =Inq28= style of gaming
(https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21192346_10155669151433236_6693940217884958472_n.jpg?oh=e7b10b22344234cadd3f31a43134dc80&oe=5A1A87B5)

What bother me are strange special dice. But I am quite happy with playing 1st/Community editions if rules will fail on me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 31, 2017, 12:10:10 PM
Looks great. Tiles in the box suit me just fine as I don't have the space for multi-level terrain at the moment. If I was feeling (very) flush I could upgrade to the Zone Mortalis 3D tiles. Looks like those bulkheads will fit the 3d versions too.

Optimistic regarding the rules too as it looks like James Hewitt was the main rules guy before he left GW and I've liked all the boxed games he did. Always seem that bit more interesting than the main GW rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 31, 2017, 12:33:34 PM
Definitely an interesting decision to make them flat tiles for the starter terrain - but it makes sense with the sub-$100 rumour I'd heard regarding the starter box.  Shame people won't get an option for discounted SW terrain like previously.  The models look okay, but I've never played Escher or Goliath so I'm kind "eh".  Waiting on Cawdor, Van Saar, Delaque etc.

Interesting to see unique dice, unit cards, and the mention of mutants and spyrers in the promo video.  Sadly absent was any mention of Arbites though that could be an expansion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on August 31, 2017, 12:41:45 PM
I'm fully stoked - the Goliath and Escher aesthetic is close enough that with a bit of work those will mix into the same faction... techno barbarians here we come!!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 31, 2017, 12:43:24 PM
Yep, generic techno-crazies will be super useful to a lot of folks outside the game.  Mad Max projects, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on August 31, 2017, 12:59:30 PM
I like the look of the new figures for the most part, but what's with the giant revolvers the Goliaths are toting? Those are just odd.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 31, 2017, 02:26:19 PM
Rewolwer shotguns probably ?
Or rewolwer stubbers/auto (well... rewolwing) guns ?

Goliath always had biggest weapons :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 31, 2017, 04:50:39 PM
I'm all in on this. Everything looks and sounds fantastic to me.

I like the introduction of tunnels/tiles- there are so many scenes in the various books and fluff pieces that involve cramped tubes and tunnels, or habitat areas, that it makes sense to address that aspect of the setting. Necromunda isn't all vast domes filled with walkways and gantries.

Time to start figuring out how to make a 3D version of the board sections :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 31, 2017, 04:55:25 PM
Honestly One thing about necromunda that always bugged me was that people played it on tables with HUGE lines of sight! This is meant to be a twisting hive , not a roof battle on top of the local co-op!

As much as i love (And wish for) more verticality in games, getting people into the cramped tunnel fighting mindset seems like a good idea.Then they can move up to the shadow wars scenery which is more open but is also very cramped and has alot of cover built in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 31, 2017, 04:57:13 PM
This means of course, eventually I'll have to do a full Necromunda board...back burner for a while though. :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 31, 2017, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on August 31, 2017, 04:50:39 PM

Time to start figuring out how to make a 3D version of the board sections :)


These are the easiest method... https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/searchResults?qty=com.gamesworkshop.endeca.EndecaUserContext%404249d91b&sorting=&view=&Ntt=zone+mortalis (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/searchResults?qty=com.gamesworkshop.endeca.EndecaUserContext%404249d91b&sorting=&view=&Ntt=zone+mortalis)

Have I been conditioned by high pricing, but are these tiles not actually too bad value? Especially considering the time saved making something similar. Not as fun as DIY I guess though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 31, 2017, 05:25:07 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on August 31, 2017, 04:58:12 PM
These are the easiest method... https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/searchResults?qty=com.gamesworkshop.endeca.EndecaUserContext%404249d91b&sorting=&view=&Ntt=zone+mortalis (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/searchResults?qty=com.gamesworkshop.endeca.EndecaUserContext%404249d91b&sorting=&view=&Ntt=zone+mortalis)

Have I been conditioned by high pricing, but are these tiles not actually too bad value? Especially considering the time saved making something similar. Not as fun as DIY I guess though.

I actually thought the same a while ago... £28 each.. not cheap but certainly not too bad for what they are.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on August 31, 2017, 06:48:55 PM
Quote from: blacksoilbill on August 31, 2017, 12:59:30 PM
I like the look of the new figures for the most part, but what's with the giant revolvers the Goliaths are toting? Those are just odd.

Hand Cannons!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 31, 2017, 08:52:45 PM
I quite like those board I have to say..

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/IMG-2924-e1504142605431.jpg)

Deathwatch Overkill and Silver Tower are beauties but overdone.
Those look simple and gritty but great at the same time.

My only peve with them is lacking of walls, but they should be doable
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on August 31, 2017, 09:11:55 PM
Making the walls could be easy enough. Make one section and a corner and cast them in plaster.

I'm wondering ....if you made the walls about 6 inches high and put some ladders/hatch markers on the boards, you could maybe make a vertical/tower board.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on August 31, 2017, 10:23:58 PM
Yeah, and for those that missed it, some of the Space Marine Primaris characters are really nice, like the Chaplain:
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120101180_PrimarisChaplain01.jpg)

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Space-Marines-Primaris-Chaplain
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on August 31, 2017, 10:49:38 PM
I considered buying those plain Zone Mortalis tiles for the SW:A and for the Necromunda as well but opted against it in the end. For a decent 4' x 4' table one would have to buy 16 tiles and that money could be spent elsewhere, thus the cheaper option for me. But it was very tempting and hard to resist the lure of nice premade tiles  :? Then again if Necromunda is playable, as it seems, on smaller board, say 3' x 3', then only nine ZM tiles needed, quite a price drop there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 31, 2017, 11:03:03 PM
Quote from: nic-e on August 31, 2017, 09:11:55 PM
Making the walls could be easy enough. Make one section and a corner and cast them in plaster.

I'm wondering ....if you made the walls about 6 inches high and put some ladders/hatch markers on the boards, you could maybe make a vertical/tower board.

I was thinking simpler, Foamcore for starters but around 2-3 inch high. To have wall impression but to not hinder moving miniatures.

Moving them in 2 broad room with 7 inches walls could be difficult.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 01, 2017, 04:09:37 AM
I'm looking forward to the outlanders supplement and any new gangs they bring out. Will they do ash waste nomads? (I could actually imagine that as a separate game by itself, kind of like Gorkamorka.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on September 01, 2017, 09:15:40 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 01, 2017, 04:09:37 AM
I'm looking forward to the outlanders supplement and any new gangs they bring out. Will they do ash waste nomads? (I could actually imagine that as a separate game by itself, kind of like Gorkamorka.)

Unless it's been announced I wouldn't hold your breath. Some people are still expecting a Deathwing and Genestealer expansion for Space Hulk!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 01, 2017, 10:01:01 AM
I'll live in hope :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on September 01, 2017, 11:11:40 AM
I could see those tiles work out well in judge dredd like settings too. Perhaps together with that other battle cardboard stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on September 01, 2017, 01:23:27 PM
I hope the boards are good quality card like we've seen in their big box boardgames and not the cheap flimsy type they used in Gorechosen.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 01, 2017, 01:54:40 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on September 01, 2017, 01:23:27 PM
I hope the boards are good quality card like we've seen in their big box boardgames and not the cheap flimsy type they used in Gorechosen.



I think the gorechosen board is fine considering its size.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on September 01, 2017, 02:49:06 PM
A cheaper option for walls would be the Pegasus Hobbies stuff.
They are easily built into most shapes and would be easy to make more 40k with the addition of some spare bits.
Better still, as they are slot together kits, you could easily cahnge the layout each time.
They price of a box full of Gothic style walls would be about the same as one of those tiles....

(https://pegasushobbies.net/catalog/images/4923-med.jpg)

https://pegasushobbies.net/catalog/p145/%234923-Gothic-City-Buildings-Large-Set/product_info.html


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on September 01, 2017, 04:12:14 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 01, 2017, 01:54:40 PM
I think the gorechosen board is fine considering its size.

It's a thin bit of cheap card with the artwork pasted on rather than the thicker printed board of the other games. I guess it's fine for what it is (even if I'd have preferred the better quality stuff) but I hope the Necro boards aren't that cheaply done. The heavier weight stuff would stand up to extensive use better. It's just not clear in the images because it's all likely prototype pieces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 05, 2017, 11:51:40 PM
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-05/warhammer-maker-tops-u-k-stock-gains-for-2017-as-profit-surges

"The U.K. maker of Warhammer battle games overtook copper miner Kaz Minerals Plc as the biggest gainer in the FTSE All-Share Index this year after saying sales and profit are booming.

Games Workshop Group Plc shares jumped 10.4 percent to 1,812 pence at 9:00 a.m. in London, extending its advance for the year to 154 percent. That takes it past Kaz’s 145 percent gain at the top of the 640-member index."


certainly different to two years ago!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on September 06, 2017, 01:18:45 PM
But someone on the internet said AoS was shit and a massive fail!  ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 06, 2017, 01:43:32 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on September 06, 2017, 01:18:45 PM
But someone on the internet said AoS was shit and a massive fail!  ;)



MUH FANTUSSEE!!
8th ED ISN'T CUMPETIEEV!!

Honestly, Some people almost act like they want Kirby back!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 06, 2017, 02:03:13 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 06, 2017, 01:43:32 PM
Honestly, Some people almost act like they want Kirby back!  lol

Hey; he was one of the icons of the industry! (https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kirby)...  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 06, 2017, 03:11:33 PM
It's good to see them having a strong year - they did have a pretty bad spate within the past 5 years or so.  They needed some boosting.  Well done to 'em.  Next year should be more of the same with Necromunda, new 40K, etc. continuing to pile on sales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 06, 2017, 06:48:54 PM
Todays regimental standard explicitly mentions Zoats and screamer killers.I'd say this is nothing but GW have been slipping rumours in everywhere recently, And the regimental standard articles usually hint at what's coming up for release. We know the tyranids are the next codex to get released and they haven't had any new miniatures in a while...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on September 06, 2017, 07:17:19 PM
Who'd have thought interacting with your costumers and playing into their needs is good for your company?

Seriously though, I am glad they've turned a new leaf. It's obvious from this thread alone that a lot of people are happy with what their doing of late.

I finally have (what seems to be, haven't played it yet) playable 40k ruleset, that is somewhat balanced.
Old favorites are coming back.

Quote
MUH FANTUSSEE!!

yeah, still not to happy about that one. And I don't think anything like it will be back soon. I understand many people like AoS, but I still feel like I have a bunch of models I don't have a decent rule set for. (that pdf they released with the original release doesn't count.)
But who knows what the future brings? A new ruleset by GW or someone ellse?
It's not that I'm getting bored in the meantime...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on September 06, 2017, 09:28:40 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 06, 2017, 06:48:54 PM
Todays regimental standard explicitly mentions Zoats and screamer killers.I'd say this is nothing but GW have been slipping rumours in everywhere recently, And the regimental standard articles usually hint at what's coming up for release. We know the tyranids are the next codex to get released and they haven't had any new miniatures in a while...
Zoats?!

They really will do anything to avoid releasing plastic Sisters of Battle, won't they?  ;)

I would totally buy zoats, though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on September 06, 2017, 09:57:04 PM
I can't help but wonder how much of their newly built-up goodwill they'll lose once they finally declare the Primaris are the new Space Marines and the old guys are gonna get Bretonnian levels of support from there on.


Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on September 06, 2017, 09:28:40 PM
Zoats?!

They really will do anything to avoid releasing plastic Sisters of Battle, won't they?  ;)

I would totally buy zoats, though.

Bear in mind that any potential plastic Sisters would naturally be out of scale with the old metal Sisters.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 06, 2017, 10:00:26 PM
I don't think they even need to announce that - people who think otherwise are simply in crazy denial.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 06, 2017, 10:03:23 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on September 06, 2017, 09:57:04 PM
I can't help but wonder how much of their newly built-up goodwill they'll lose once they finally declare the Primaris are the new Space Marines and the old guys are gonna get Bretonnian levels of support from there on.

In my mind it can't come fast enough.The issues with the design of the old marines become even more glaring when you see them next to the primaris, It almost feels cruel to let them suffer!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on September 06, 2017, 10:23:13 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on September 06, 2017, 09:57:04 PM
I can't help but wonder how much of their newly built-up goodwill they'll lose once they finally declare the Primaris are the new Space Marines and the old guys are gonna get Bretonnian levels of support from there on.
I'm glad I never did get around to painting more than a handful of space marines even after all these years. I paint slowly, what can I say?

Quote from: FionaWhite on September 06, 2017, 09:57:04 PM
Bear in mind that any potential plastic Sisters would naturally be out of scale with the old metal Sisters.  ;)
My headcanon is that scale creep in the 40K model ranges is because the younger generation have been getting their 3 Zoatibix every day.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tomrommel1 on September 07, 2017, 10:12:41 AM
I would rather keep the old Marines ,too . Yes I am so old that I remember Rough trader and just love the old beaky Marines!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on September 07, 2017, 11:36:11 AM
Quote from: tomrommel1 on September 07, 2017, 10:12:41 AM
I would rather keep the old Marines ,too . Yes I am so old that I remember Rough trader and just love the old beaky Marines!

There's not going to be any problem keeping them. 

It's getting new ones that's going to become impossible. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on September 07, 2017, 01:10:50 PM
I rather like the "Primani" new Marines, not only because they are a proper size, but mainly because they are relatively clean (detail wise) without too many flippity-widget unnecessary bits as the current crop appear to be, to my eyes anyway.

This was one of the reasons I was yearning for some RTB01 plastics and early RT/2nd metals because in general they were much cleaner and less fussy, but then LO! Primaris Marines and bingo! lol I brought the First Strike and Know No Fear boxsets and I haven't paid GW for anything direct for many a year, trust me I was gobsmacked at myself........

Then again I don`t have a lot invested in the "stunty" marines. As of now, I have an unbuilt tactical squad which may well become renegade humans in power armour? My Blood Angels are for Space Hulk (2nd ed), so no problem.

My new Primani are Space Wolves, but proper grey (not baby duck-egg blue) yuk!, but will be suitably dirty and gritty looking, all are mounted on clear bases, my plague marine forces will be based on clear bases also.

I will be interested to see what they do for Grey Knights, Deathwatch et all? I like them both but I will not be buying any "stunty" marines from now on, so it be interesting to see what happens?

See you from the other side of the plastic and pewter mountain

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on September 07, 2017, 07:57:40 PM
Not understanding why the new 3 death guard are £25, the anniversary marine is £20 and Mortarion is £85.

The previous 3 death guard are £10
5 multi part primaris are £20
And magnus and gulliman are both cheaper primarchs
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 07, 2017, 08:01:16 PM
Yep, there's no real logic to that one short of "ohhh, limited edition" kind of silliness.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on September 07, 2017, 11:12:24 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on September 07, 2017, 07:57:40 PM
Not understanding why the new 3 death guard are £25, the anniversary marine is £20 and Mortarion is £85.

The previous 3 death guard are £10
5 multi part primaris are £20
And magnus and gulliman are both cheaper primarchs

People will happily pay those prices, that's why.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 08, 2017, 12:59:38 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on September 07, 2017, 11:12:24 PM
People will happily pay those prices, that's why.

Sad but true, expect the same every time they release one.  I dread to think what the price will be on the last one they release, to complete the set, as I bet they will look at gradually doing each one..for  a little bit more each time.

As great as their new approach to other things seems to be, don't see the price policy ever changing,
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on September 08, 2017, 01:56:28 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on September 08, 2017, 12:59:38 PM
Sad but true, expect the same every time they release one.  I dread to think what the price will be on the last one they release, to complete the set, as I bet they will look at gradually doing each one..for  a little bit more each time.

As great as their new approach to other things seems to be, don't see the price policy ever changing,

Which is why I will be converting an easy-build intersessor into a primaris librarian and an easy build riever into a lone wolf for my wolf puppies, i am not now or ever going to pay £22.50 RRP for a single mini no matter what :o lol

I will get some of those aggressors though :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on September 08, 2017, 08:46:07 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on September 07, 2017, 11:12:24 PM
People will happily pay those prices, that's why.
I Won't :p
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on September 08, 2017, 10:41:54 PM
I agree - more likely "some people". And yes, the slow boiling of a lobster in a pot of warm water is always a good sales technique.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 10, 2017, 08:32:02 PM
Apparently the 3 death guard blokes are priced so high because they have a book of designers notes/artwork prints with them.
sort of a release collectors item i guess?
Eh, I'm sure someone want them.


On the bright side the new deathguard terminators look very pretty! It's almost a shame since they look alot like typhus, And will inevitably make typhus look extra tiny, And the typhus sculpt is still amazing.



EDIT:

I'be got a problem now...
That overpriced box? It comes with 3 very nice prints of john blanches nurgle sketches.
I've paid more than that for prints and these 3 would look very nice framed alongside my display case.

I'll be honest, at this point I',m thinking everything else in the box is extraneous..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on September 11, 2017, 11:09:21 PM
Isn't there a new Typhusdoimg the rounds on Instagram?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 11, 2017, 11:28:15 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on September 11, 2017, 11:09:21 PM
Isn't there a new Typhusdoimg the rounds on Instagram?

Just had a look (search for #typhus and it's in the top posts along with all the nurgle stuff that's on the way.)
It isn't bad... certainly a great sculpt. I think the problem is that the typhus sculpt was just great anyway! Having him with his scythe raised certainly help shim stand out against the new deathshrouds but there was always something very pragmatic and solemn about the old sculpt , he wasn't pointing or shouting, just silently killing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 12, 2017, 12:27:03 AM
And the new Typhus mini is friggin' huge (read: larger than a Gravis Captain fella).  Personally I think the old mini trumps it...the new one is just "meh", but you can always toss his head on one of the other Deathshroud fellas.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 12, 2017, 09:49:26 AM
Quote from: nic-e on September 11, 2017, 11:28:15 PM
It isn't bad... certainly a great sculpt. I think the problem is that the typhus sculpt was just great anyway! Having him with his scythe raised certainly help shim stand out against the new deathshrouds but there was always something very pragmatic and solemn about the old sculpt , he wasn't pointing or shouting, just silently killing.

Exactly what I was thinking...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on September 15, 2017, 07:04:53 AM
Quote from: Elbows on September 12, 2017, 12:27:03 AM
And the new Typhus mini is friggin' huge (read: larger than a Gravis Captain fella).  Personally I think the old mini trumps it...the new one is just "meh", but you can always toss his head on one of the other Deathshroud fellas.

Agreed. The new one is daft. Way too much detail (which doesn't suit Death Guard at all imo) and a silly drunken pose. Nope, old one is way better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 18, 2017, 07:45:31 PM
I really like to look of firestorm.
Compatible with AoS skirmish and all other AoS play styles, So no need for huge armies and massive units. Just a few heroes carving out a kingdom in the wild parts of the mortal realms.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/17/firestorm-the-armies-of-the-great-cities-and-the-elite-of-the-death-guard/

"Firestorm is a new way to play Warhammer Age of Sigmar, allowing you and your friends to battle for supremacy in map-based campaigns. As you win battles, you’ll be able to capture territories and build a kingdom of your own, adding powerful gameplay benefits to your army. Inside the box, you’ll find the campaign map, decks of dominion cards for each player and stickers to mark your impact on the Realm of Fire – all of these are fully reusable, meaning after one Firestorm campaign you’re free to set up another one. There are unique strategic challenges to map-based play for gamers, while for narrative players this is an easy way to structure a campaign. Firestorm has been designed to be compatible with any kind of play – you can fight your battles in tense games of Skirmish or try the new siege rules from the General’s Handbook 2017, or even string them together to create varied, rich, and thematic games.

There’s more! Firestorm comes with 10 new allegiance abilities representing the unique armies of the Great Cities and those who would tear them down. The Great Cities are the kingdoms of Order in the Mortal Realms, each home to a unique and varied collection of humans, elves, duardin and Stormcast Eternals. You may remember some of them from the Season of War campaign, such as the Greywater Fastness, others you may have already explored, like Hammerhal, while some are completely new, like Tempest’s Eye. The new allegiance abilities are designed to represent how these cities fight; the forces of the Phonecium, for instance, are inspired to fight harder by the deaths of their comrades, honouring the Ur-Phoenix, while the armies of Anvilgard crush their foes underfoot in relentless marches. We’ll be previewing some of these next week in detail – what’s more, these are usable in any of your games, not just Firestorm! "
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 18, 2017, 07:55:24 PM
A boxed set for map-based campaigns gets my stamp of approval, for at least being interesting content.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on September 19, 2017, 11:11:22 AM
It certainly has potential.  Their Open War cards work well enough.  Hopefully this box builds on that same approach.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on September 19, 2017, 11:44:54 AM
well I've been hearing that the revised BFG is supposedly going to be set during the horus heresy.
no alien races.
just loyalist and traitors.
so pretty much 1 design of ship in different sizes.

on the topic of sizes I've heard the scale will be smaller than the current OOP ships.
so if you already have a fleet GW are laughing in your face.

just what I've heard so far
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on September 19, 2017, 12:31:59 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on September 19, 2017, 11:44:54 AM
well I've been hearing that the revised BFG is supposedly going to be set during the horus heresy.
no alien races.
just loyalist and traitors.
so pretty much 1 design of ship in different sizes.

on the topic of sizes I've heard the scale will be smaller than the current OOP ships.
so if you already have a fleet GW are laughing in your face.

just what I've heard so far

Not heard about BFG coming back!

I think we tend to expect GW to just rehash these old games the way they were or at least they way we remember them, but that's not really good business. They want people to buy the games and to encourage old timers to spend money on the new product rather than on Ebay. GW aren't being shitty or trying to piss off the old fan base intentionally. We have to be careful as well that we're not expecting a full range of products for some of these things. Adeptus Titanicus gets resurrected and everyone assumes that the full Epic range is going to return. Some of these games might just be one off stand alone games. I could see BFG Horus Heresy as a one off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 19, 2017, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on September 19, 2017, 12:31:59 PM
Not heard about BFG coming back!

I think we tend to expect GW to just rehash these old games the way they were or at least they way we remember them, but that's not really good business. They want people to buy the games and to encourage old timers to spend money on the new product rather than on Ebay. GW aren't being shitty or trying to piss off the old fan base intentionally. We have to be careful as well that we're not expecting a full range of products for some of these things. Adeptus Titanicus gets resurrected and everyone assumes that the full Epic range is going to return. Some of these games might just be one off stand alone games. I could see BFG Horus Heresy as a one off.


I could see it as a standalone or as a starter kit in all but name, Ibn the style of calth and prospero.
They'd have those boxes for people to play with , put out a few plastic kits, and then have the other more custom stuff done by foregworld. the plan was for foregworld to handle specialist games for the most part from what i understand and the model seems to be working well for bloodbowl.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 19, 2017, 12:54:48 PM
The main thing to remember with both Adeptus Titanicus (also set in the HH) and the new BFG (likely set in the HH) is that these are, by now, unproven games.  While there is a cult following online for the games - nothing is proven, and the Horus Heresy is doing well for them.  However, they're following the original AT philosophy.  By doing Horus Heresy you get to test the waters with one set of models.  If the game is a failure, just leave the boxed game as is, and carry on with other projects.  If successful, then continue and eventually do alien races, etc.

It's smart, and the same reason they did it way back when the first Titanicus game was released (which, if I recall was two sets of Imperial titans done u in different colour plastic?).  Also if BFG goes to multi-part, convertible plastics...all the die hard BFG fans will absolutely be buying new models to supplement their current fleets.  The rules will be different, and ships will be different, etc.

This is just a safe business decision and has nothing to do with spiting players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on September 19, 2017, 01:01:33 PM
Quote from: Elbows on September 19, 2017, 12:54:48 PM
It's smart, and the same reason they did it way back when the first Titanicus game was released (which, if I recall was two sets of Imperial titans done u in different colour plastic?). 
Correct - they also had a choice of 2 heads, with one slightly more chaos-y, although I've seen both on Imperial plastic Warlord titans from the period. Red and blue, if I remember correctly (I have also seen black).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 19, 2017, 07:37:05 PM

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/19/starting-a-gaming-club-sep-19gw-homepage-post-2/

A nice little article from Warhammer community,written by some of the guys at weta workshop about starting a gaming club.

Obviously this is a case of YMMV but it's nice to have GW putting these ideas out that might not haveoccoured to some newer players and could promt them to look into their local clubs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on September 20, 2017, 02:52:07 PM
A painted Mortarion is already up for sale on ebay with 6 heroes, 3 drones, 20 Plague Marines and I'd guess 40 pox walkers - for a cool 4 grand $...!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40K-Chaos-Space-Marines-Army-Mortarion-Death-Guard-Nurgle-PAINTED-/322760962907?hash=item4b260d735b:g:pmUAAOSwnyBZwTT8 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40K-Chaos-Space-Marines-Army-Mortarion-Death-Guard-Nurgle-PAINTED-/322760962907?hash=item4b260d735b:g:pmUAAOSwnyBZwTT8)
It's nice and all, but not the highest level of paintwork I've seen, and - $4,000?!?!!?  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 20, 2017, 05:20:12 PM
As we used to say in the car business "there's an ass for every seat".  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 22, 2017, 11:03:31 AM
If anyone is interested in Warhammer fantasy Roleplay digital books, Humble Bundle (https://www.humblebundle.com/books/warhammer-rpg-books?hmb_campaign=free_outlastdeluxe_2017&hmb_source=download_page&hmb_medium=banner) has a good deal going now. $20 for a crap load. I think 22 books in total. This includes the 1st edition in digital format too.

Good for another 5 days or so.

or you can just pay $1 and get 4 of them (including the core book)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 22, 2017, 01:48:03 PM
Shhhhh, I've been trying not to look at that again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on September 22, 2017, 06:27:54 PM
Quote from: Elbows on September 22, 2017, 01:48:03 PM
Shhhhh, I've been trying not to look at that again.

Damn you all! I so wanted to ignore that!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 22, 2017, 10:53:16 PM
The Humble Bundle is a cracking good deal - a ton of background and gaming ideas if you're into the Old World at all, not just roleplaying.  All for the cost of a cinema ticket and snacks.  It's worth the money they're asking ten times over - may be the best PDF deal I've EVER seen.  IIRC it's 27 books, and the quality is good.

You also get a 30% off voucher for the Cubicle 7 RPG store in the bundle - I picked up a couple of £25 books and the savings effectively paid for the Warhammer Fantasy deal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 22, 2017, 11:30:15 PM
That's the kicker too...Cubicle 7 is going the "new" Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, so if that coupon counts, it could be worth up to $20 by itself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 23, 2017, 02:04:31 AM
I don't really do RPG's myself (yet, maybe sometime in the future) and have all but stopped with Warhammer but it was such a good deal I couldn't pass it up. Even just for the fluff and stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 23, 2017, 12:30:56 PM
THey just put up some new hobbit bundles. Looks like they'd bundled laketown militia and soldiers into 12 man warbands rather than 3 man blsiters.
£40 a warband but I think that's a saving over buying the individual blisters.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on September 23, 2017, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on September 22, 2017, 10:53:16 PM
The Humble Bundle is a cracking good deal - a ton of background and gaming ideas if you're into the Old World at all, not just roleplaying.  All for the cost of a cinema ticket and snacks.  It's worth the money they're asking ten times over - may be the best PDF deal I've EVER seen.  IIRC it's 27 books, and the quality is good.

You also get a 30% off voucher for the Cubicle 7 RPG store in the bundle - I picked up a couple of £25 books and the savings effectively paid for the Warhammer Fantasy deal.

Hur hur hur...just bought and downloaded the bundle. Some decent stuff and good art. I still like the 1st Ed. better, but ruleswise the 2nd was a big step forward and for that price I simply couldn't say no. And some of the stuff is surprisingly well written!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 23, 2017, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: beefcake on September 22, 2017, 11:03:31 AM
If anyone is interested in Warhammer fantasy Roleplay digital books, Humble Bundle (https://www.humblebundle.com/books/warhammer-rpg-books?hmb_campaign=free_outlastdeluxe_2017&hmb_source=download_page&hmb_medium=banner) has a good deal going now. $20 for a crap load. I think 22 books in total. This includes the 1st edition in digital format too.

Good for another 5 days or so.

or you can just pay $1 and get 4 of them (including the core book)
Getting twenty-six titles for $20 is a deal, but how is the quality and does it have one's name and order number watermarked on the product? I bought Stephen Danes' Bad War and supplements and has my full name and order number on each page. >:( I understand why it's done, but would've preferred either the # or # and 1st name...

Had Black Industries come out with Shades of Empire or The WFRP Companion early on, instead of thin titles like Old World Armoury, Bestiary or Sigmar's Heirs, I wouldn't have zoned out of 2nd Edition and then engaged in rush purchasing on hearing news of discontinuation - got the French versions of Tome of Corruption, Children of the Horned Rat and Night's Dark Masters, as it was cheaper than paying ~$100/book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 23, 2017, 06:33:25 PM
Quality is good - the line is recent enough that they are not scans.  Most likely PDF exports of the original DTP files.

No watermarks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 23, 2017, 06:36:27 PM
Quote from: Momotaro on September 23, 2017, 06:33:25 PM
Quality is good - the line is recent enough that they are not scans.  Most likely PDF exports of the original DTP files.

No watermarks.
Thanks. Only the Career Compendium needed, but I'll fork ou the $20 for the English versions of the aforementioned titles, especially as I couldn't find any possible errata or Q&A for 'em.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on September 23, 2017, 06:39:10 PM
Quote from: nic-e on September 23, 2017, 12:30:56 PM
THey just put up some new hobbit bundles. Looks like they'd bundled laketown militia and soldiers into 12 man warbands rather than 3 man blsiters.
£40 a warband but I think that's a saving over buying the individual blisters.

Yeah, the blisters would be £60 for 12 figures, so a bit of a decent saving there.

Wish they'd do the same with the mattock- and crossbow-wielding Iron Hills dwarfs on Forgeworld ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 24, 2017, 06:48:04 PM
Teasers for the guard codex up on warhammer community with some nifty looking conversions of some classic regiments.

Also this looks really interesting....

"Of course, if you’re starting a new Astra Militarum army, you’ll need somewhere to play them, and Moon Base Klaisus is perfect. Building your own boards is a fun and rewarding experience, but it’s not always practical for gamers who are limited by space or just want to set their games up quickly – the new Moon Base Klaisus set gives you everything you’ll need to get gaming in minutes on a great looking 6’x4′ board. Made up of modular card tiles – designed to be interchangeable to vary your battlefields – and featuring push-fit ruins, Moon Base Klaisus is great for gamers looking for an easy way to make sure they’ve got a cool-looking place to play, wherever they are. The ruins themselves are designed to fit in with both the Sector Mechanicus and Sector Imperialis terrain, meaning if you do decide to build a more bespoke gaming board you’ll be off to a head start.

(https://i.imgur.com/0wypVu6.jpg)

Lovely thick card with push fit plastic ruins. A nice update to the frankly awful to store cities of death terrain. I can see these being brilliant for stores and game clubs.

Storing terrain was always a HUGE problem at work, We had racks dedicated to scenery and we tried to keep mats nice and flat or tiles stored neatly but having enough scenery for say 6 40k tables when you don't have alot of tear down stuff is a huge space commitment. Having a table that goes neatly back in the box is ace. (WE tried the tablescapes tiles but they cost a fortune and weighed a ton. The citadel tiles are okay but cumbersome.6x4 mats started to fray and got stained alot.the old GW grass mats were good but looked like they had mange after so many years of use.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on September 24, 2017, 11:06:05 PM
Yeah, there's a huge "don't let perfect be the enemy of good" factor with terrain. Nicely done card tiles look are enough to create immersion on the tabletop, I reckon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on September 24, 2017, 11:08:37 PM
Those ruins look nice but if that's all that comes in one box... :/

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 24, 2017, 11:16:02 PM
Quote from: pocoloco on September 24, 2017, 11:08:37 PM
Those ruins look nice but if that's all that comes in one box... :/



WE don't know how much comes in the box or how much the box is yet.

Think of it this way, Let's say you just got into 40k with 8th edition. You didn't wanna get the full starter set because you didn't want to pay so much so you got one of the smaller ones. Well then you have a play mat and the cardboard scenery that came with that.

now it's a few months down the line, you like the game, you've got a few more models but your paper play mat and cardboard terrain isn't enough anymore.
You only just started in the hobby, you don't have the confidence or skills to build a full 6x4 ...

So you buy this.
You just started out so you don't need the full 6x4 straight away, so you do 4x4 with the plastic in the box.

Then you want to do 6x4, so you add in your cardboard scenery.

by the time you think "huh, I need more terrain" then you're already at the point where you'd be looking at building or buying your own terrain.



Also I have to say that having set up tables for 40k players for about 2 years , This seems to be the standard amount of terrain they like.I think it sucks , But I want nice narrative games with cool scenics and multi level gameplay. Most players seem to like sort of open fields with a little bit of LOS blocking.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on September 25, 2017, 11:34:31 AM
Quote from: nic-e on September 24, 2017, 11:16:02 PM

Also I have to say that having set up tables for 40k players for about 2 years , This seems to be the standard amount of terrain they like.I think it sucks , But I want nice narrative games with cool scenics and multi level gameplay. Most players seem to like sort of open fields with a little bit of LOS blocking.


Someone was bemoaning the lack of good tables in AoS on the Grand Alliance forums. Seems most players really don't care too much about terrain and find it just gets in the way. Rather sad and bizarrely enough that guy said when he put together detailed tables for a campaign he had people literally get angry with him over it and very few wanted to take part. A few scatter pieces in a box with some tiles is probably the best GW could expect to sell to some.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 25, 2017, 11:42:21 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on September 25, 2017, 11:34:31 AM
Someone was bemoaning the lack of good tables in AoS on the Grand Alliance forums. Seems most players really don't care too much about terrain and find it just gets in the way. Rather sad and bizarrely enough that guy said when he put together detailed tables for a campaign he had people literally get angry with him over it and very few wanted to take part. A few scatter pieces in a box with some tiles is probably the best GW could expect to sell to some.

It's silly really since the games are built to use terrain. AOS actually benefits greatly from a nice terrain dense table with lots of height and cover, But all those converts and latecomers from fantasy still want an open field with a church in the middle.

I think 40k in 7th was suffering from alot of people not wanting terrain because it got in the way of their fancy game ending god weapon combo, Very much a case of "I wanted to destroy my enemy with this forgeworld deathcock but the table gave them cover saves thats not fair balablahblah MUH TACTICS!!"

......Working in a store didn't make me jaded towards gamers ...no at all.....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on September 25, 2017, 12:03:54 PM
There seems to definitely be a hold over from WFB for a lot of players when it comes to AoS. I've not played WFB since 3rd edition but even then any area of dense terrain just got played around as moving units in ranks and files through it was a pain. Whatever game though, I think narrative play suits a more terrain filled table but a lot of people seem to prefer the competitive mind set and a clean table.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on September 25, 2017, 12:07:11 PM
Yes, it's sadly funny that many gamers just want to find a way to bend the rules for their own benefit, whether it's about the units, rules, terrain, scenarios or whatnots. Having run some campaigns back in the day running a LFGS it still bugs me so much that I will carry the scars forever in my soul  ::)

Then again, of course with bigger armies the logical thing for a proper battle _field_ would be that field with a hut in the middle/side and two opposing armies clashing over it, maybe a forest on one side and hill on the other. And then for good skirmish gaming the table should be cluttered with nice terrain pieces... that's one reason why I prefer skirmish gaming nowadays, another being that I might actually paint enough minis for a skirmish game but not for a proper army  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on September 28, 2017, 08:55:13 PM
https://warhammerunderworlds.com (https://warhammerunderworlds.com)

Cant believe no one is talking about this!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 28, 2017, 09:11:59 PM
you're right, We need to address these important developments...

(https://i.imgur.com/cBPGE7E.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/t8PW34i.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/duhmzaV.jpg)


I love these little drawings they keep putting on the retail section of their sites.



Shadespir elooks like alot of fun, very much GW's answer to X wing which is no bad thing (I just wish i could stop seeing vloggers and review sites calling it "the new mordheim".they said the same of skirmish and of frostgrave and it just lead to both books being spat on by a large number of players who were misinformed about what they were buying.)

I was hyped up for it when it first leaked but now I've been waiting so long I've become distracted!GW is nothing if not rigourous with it's foreplay but sometimes you just need to stop ,take my wallet, open it up and give it a ruddy good seeing too.As it is my wallet is closed up but making smokey eyes at necromunda....

 I will play it if i can and hope to get into it because hey, Gorechosen was amazing fun and i like simple games I can convert up cool miniatures for.

I just wish they'd done this as a september release instead of having it go up against necromunda, because damn there are going to be some torn wallets when that drops.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on September 28, 2017, 09:36:26 PM
Seems like a pretty low price on this too at £40 (although there are people complaining about it already!) so Definitely on my wants list. I'd like to know how much the other two warband sets are but I'm very tempted to just get them as well anyway when released. The skelly set looked great and orruks might be interesting to paint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on September 28, 2017, 10:27:57 PM
Well I'm loving the price it's going out at, and extra war bands for £20 that's pretty good too! It's nice you don't have too many figures to paint to get playing
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on September 28, 2017, 10:29:03 PM
I'm into the khorne models for shadespie, I find the Bloodbound (?) kit a bit restrictive so it'll be nice to have a bit more variety in a warband if nothing else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on September 29, 2017, 10:39:47 AM
Yeah, well, what's to talk about? I'll get my copy when it's available and I will probably go for all the warbands. Khorne and Death are a must and the rest, well, I'm a hoarder  :'(.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on September 30, 2017, 12:01:07 AM
The new cardboard game board is up on the new Zealand site.

No idea what the price is yet because NZ to GBP exchange means nothing to GW.

That cardboard looks really thick, to the point that i thought these were demo pictures using prints pasted onto plywood.

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99220199067_MoonBaseKlaisus04.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 01, 2017, 02:15:03 AM
Quote from: nic-e on September 30, 2017, 12:01:07 AM
The new cardboard game board is up on the new Zealand site.

No idea what the price is yet because NZ to GBP exchange means nothing to GW.

That cardboard looks really thick, to the point that i thought these were demo pictures using prints pasted onto plywood.

Together with the four little plastic ruins, the set runs £50. And on the other side from the board is a "red Mars" landscape that's in the style of the old plastic Realm Of Battle board (might even be a high-res overhead photo of one).

One minor thing to note is that it's a few inches smaller than 6'x4' area when set up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 01, 2017, 01:27:03 PM
And £40 elsewhere so even better value.

It'll be interesting to see how hard wearing the boards are.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on October 03, 2017, 07:46:48 AM
Quote from: majorsmith on September 28, 2017, 08:55:13 PM
https://warhammerunderworlds.com (https://warhammerunderworlds.com)

Cant believe no one is talking about this!

Interesting review of Shadespire at http://www.mengelminiatures.com/2017/10/review-shadespire.html (http://www.mengelminiatures.com/2017/10/review-shadespire.html)

I really like those undead.  They will probably wind up joining by Dragon Rampant warband. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 03, 2017, 10:45:15 AM
Yes. Those undead are very, very nice. I might say the best undead GW have brought out (And I still have a lot of love for the 90's undead due to the nostalgia). Just wish they were metal lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 03, 2017, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: beefcake on October 03, 2017, 10:45:15 AM
Yes. Those undead are very, very nice. I might say the best undead GW have brought out (And I still have a lot of love for the 90's undead due to the nostalgia). Just wish they were metal lol.

You'll have fly away plastic skellies and be grateful! Just don't sneeze near them.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 03, 2017, 01:54:45 PM
So Shadespire came about after the miniatures design team made some random push-fit figures originally intended for AoS release, and WQ Silver Tower's rules were written after the miniatures in the box were all decided. Imagine what they could do if they coordinated rules and figures from the start! ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 03, 2017, 02:02:19 PM
Hey now...most of the best things come from accidents (original Golf GTI for example) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 03, 2017, 02:09:19 PM
True. Though I hope that whoever spotted the potential of the push-fit figures at least gets a raise!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 04, 2017, 11:16:33 AM
Bit late to the show, but my god - 8th ed 40k is really anti combat isn't it? Literally can't run a combat focused nid army, you need to have guns.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on October 04, 2017, 01:05:42 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on October 04, 2017, 11:16:33 AM
Bit late to the show, but my god - 8th ed 40k is really anti combat isn't it? Literally can't run a combat focused nid army, you need to have guns.

I haven't found that myself, I found there tends to more combat this edition and it's from turn 1 with so many units now able to arrive from reserve/deep strike ect 9" away and first turning charging

What I have noticed though is combats isn't quite as bloody as you now have the option to disengage so you need to hit units with overwelming force to kill it in one combat phase.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 08, 2017, 08:56:26 PM
So someone on the old social media wrote an open letter to GW, a very polite one, asking what their current stance was with regards to better gender representation in their games.

Games workshop , seeing this potential grenade of outraged defensive man babies , answered with tact and clarity.

GW's answer :

(https://i.imgur.com/bbeSRJe.jpg)


just putting the core issue aside for a second, Can you imagine GW even thinking of taking a stance like this 5 years ago? let alone doing so after prompt from a players letter? sure, it's an easy PR goal to say "hey, we don't hate women" , but it's also gotta be a nice thing to see for new female players who might be put of by the outwardly exclusionary seeming hobby.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 08, 2017, 09:05:06 PM
Unfortunately, the replies from the player base still feature an alarming number of frightened, angry men ranting against what feminist40k (they posted the question that this answers) are trying to achieve.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 08, 2017, 09:10:48 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on October 08, 2017, 09:05:06 PM
Unfortunately, the replies from the player base still feature an alarming number of frightened, angry men ranting against what feminist40k (they posted the question that this answers) are trying to achieve.

Yeah I read through the comments... But then I remembered working in a store and know that these players are just the very vocal minority who normally don't paint their armies and think terrain gets in the way of the game, and as such they deserve only to be shunned  lol

I mean hell, The 40k universe was given it's style by John Blanche, a man who if he could would play entirely with female armies.all of them with badass hair.
Then again I once saw someone on dakkadakka claim with utter authority that john blanche had nothing to do with giving 40k it's style, so lord knows what goes in in the minds of 40k players.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 08, 2017, 09:11:40 PM
We had a brew up about this earlier in the thread, personally I think it's a bad business decision - but only their sales numbers will answer the question at some point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 08, 2017, 10:54:37 PM
I think it's entirely appropriate to have more 'normal' female models in both fantasy and sci-fi gaming. Why not? It helps to reflect what a growing proportion of gamers want to see and it also follows with where our society is right now, with more women taking combat roles in the military as opposed to just women-only units. It's not about being politically correct, so much as pulling the hobby along with a changing market.

Dare I say it, it also helps the hobby to evolve, mature and shed its clichéd old skin. The cheesecake chainmail bikinis still have a place in the tongue-in-cheek style fantasy models, as do the over-muscled barbarians in fur pants. We can still enjoy the fun without taking it seriously, just now we have a better variety of styles to choose from. 'Calamity Jane' Deadwood style, or 'Calamity Jane' Doris day style, if you will.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on October 08, 2017, 11:20:56 PM
The majority of my project fall in to pseudo-RPG, small, roleplaying adventure encounters and I'm actively put off by mini collections that don't have some women in them - it's weird. Doesn't mean I want PC weirdness (I've warrior bands of raiders that are all male because their tribe is classically patriarchal, for example) but I just think that with no women on the table the make-believe world seems a bit gray.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on October 09, 2017, 07:23:03 AM
I personally love that there's more options for ladies with not-chainmail-bikinis out there to choose from. Could you imagine the chafing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on October 09, 2017, 10:34:12 AM
Quote from: Cubs on October 08, 2017, 10:54:37 PM
... It's not about being politically correct, so much as pulling the hobby along with a changing market.

Hit the nail on the head there, Cubs! At Derby over the weekend, there was a notable increase in the number of female attendees, and a quick check shows our FB page has 13% female 'Likes' now. It's definitely a shifting market, and GW would be mad not to take advantage of it.

I can see it being difficult to integrate them into the Guard though, unless they resculpt the Cadians altogether. Without boob-plate, it'd be down to proportions to tell them apart. And the current male models don't look much like humans, really.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 09, 2017, 05:55:56 PM
As many people have pointed out, people have been clamouring for things like plastic Sisters or female IG for nigh-on 20 years now, with so many fans resorting to conversions or not-figures.

Easily a dozen minis companies have taken advantage of this demand over the years and made money that GW could have been making all along.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 09, 2017, 08:15:45 PM
Having been at the 'coal face' so to speak the thing that people are worried about isn't more female minis of 'boobplate', its the message, if you look at videogames companies once you start that whole route where you are trying to appease peoples PC demands it can go from reasonable to lynch mob very quickly,.

For example, the company that makes the witcher video games series coming under fire for not having any non-white people...despite the fact its made in Poland by an all white team and and based on a property based on Polish mythology, they stood their ground but other companies have folded.

The thing about SoBs is the demand has been vocal but that does not necessarily mean popular, people are vocal about squats but most I know don't care about them and don't miss them.

I can see 40k being particular vulnerable i that many aspects are ''problematic'' and some are being removed, look at slaanesh,, I reckon that the whole 'mystery' is really just GW unable to decide what they want to do(cut or keep?) because let's be honest, age of sigmar is warhammer with lots of the 'adult' aspects shed away.

I would point out though that GW has said the pc thing...but given release schedules etc, it will be another few years before we actually see it in action(the pc bubble could well have burst by then).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 09, 2017, 08:29:49 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on October 09, 2017, 08:15:45 PM


For example, the company that makes the witcher video games series coming under fire for not having any non-white people...despite the fact its made in Poland by an all white team and and based on a property based on Polish mythology, they stood their ground but other companies have folded.



But we're talking about 40k, a universe where women do in fact exist.

Quote from: Kommando_J on October 09, 2017, 08:15:45 PM

I can see 40k being particular vulnerable i that many aspects are ''problematic'' and some are being removed, look at slaanesh,, I reckon that the whole 'mystery' is really just GW unable to decide what they want to do(cut or keep?) because let's be honest, age of sigmar is warhammer with lots of the 'adult' aspects shed away.



Slaanesh hasn't gone anywhere, after the fall of the old world it gorged on the souls of the elves and then in its exhaustion was captured by the elves and chained up in the mortal realms. It's power is still in the realms, its followers still active , even more so ast hey search for it and fight to take its place, and many have directed their worship onto archeaon as a proxy slaanesh, giving him power over its followers.

slaanesh was put on ice because they're doing the gods one at a time. Honestly slaanesh needs a rethink not because its unfriendly to kids, but because the people who whinge about it are the same people that stick half a barbie doll on a defiler and call it a masterful work of art, then spend the whole game making sex jokes, or put greenstuff dicks on their rhinos because to them "Excess" translates as "chance to express my unevented sexual frustration in increasingly worrying and socially inept ways whilst making others worry about my personal tastes and hygiene"

Slaanesh, cool idea, awesome potential, terrible fans.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 09, 2017, 08:31:53 PM
So ... the bit where people are saying it's not about political correctness ... ?

I'm genuinely confused about what bubble is going to burst as well. Frankly I see customers wanting the depiction of women to move past the 'sex symbol' phase, past the 'independent strong woman' stage, into the 'ordinary human being' stage. I don't see it regressing and going backwards.

But while you're at it and since you brought up the matter, I would also like to see more racial diversity in the hobby as well. Not for political correctness either, just for variety and a believeable representation of whatever the subject matter is. Obviously, if the genre calls for the predominance of a certain ethnicity then I think we can all understand that. We don't have to move to extremes just to want things to move a little.  

PS. Honestly curious about widely diverse opinions on what, to me, seems a sensible and overdue development in the hobby, not trying to be narky or poke at people for thinking differently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 09, 2017, 11:19:16 PM
Outstanding posts, Cubs and Nic-e!

We all want the 40K universe to keep filling out, and I assume women are still just over 50% of the population in the 41st millenium.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 09, 2017, 11:29:16 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 09, 2017, 08:29:49 PM
But we're talking about 40k, a universe where women do in fact exist.

I know, it was to liustrate the lack of logic when it comes to demands.

Slaanesh hasn't gone anywhere, after the fall of the old world it gorged on the souls of the elves and then in its exhaustion was captured by the elves and chained up in the mortal realms. It's power is still in the realms, its followers still active , even more so ast hey search for it and fight to take its place, and many have directed their worship onto archeaon as a proxy slaanesh, giving him power over its followers.

slaanesh was put on ice because they're doing the gods one at a time. Honestly slaanesh needs a rethink not because its unfriendly to kids, but because the people who whinge about it are the same people that stick half a barbie doll on a defiler and call it a masterful work of art, then spend the whole game making sex jokes, or put greenstuff dicks on their rhinos because to them "Excess" translates as "chance to express my unevented sexual frustration in increasingly worrying and socially inept ways whilst making others worry about my personal tastes and hygiene"

Slaanesh, cool idea, awesome potential, terrible fans.

I agree on the fans but I definitely think that they are stalling, they've been doing khorne for ages.

''I'm genuinely confused about what bubble is going to burst as well.''

The constant PC media push, look at the whole google furore.

''Frankly I see customers wanting the depiction of women to move past the 'sex symbol' phase, past the 'independent strong woman' stage, into the 'ordinary human being' stage. I don't see it regressing and going backwards''

I don't disagree, GW should do more female miniatures(provided they get the faces right).

''But while you're at it and since you brought up the matter, I would also like to see more racial diversity in the hobby as well. Not for political correctness either, just for variety and a believable representation of whatever the subject matter is.''

ll for it, we need guard that don't have generic Caucasian features, although we should be careful, at 28mm scale its easy to do other races wrong...look at warlord and their Japanese...


I think the hobby does need change but I also realise that at the end of the day pragmatism will play out, some stuff will be adopted and some stuff will be flash in the pan as (getting back to my videogame example) the people yelling the loudest about how properties must conform aren't the ones actually buying them.


''We don't have to move to extremes just to want things to move a little. ''

Agreed, but as far as I can see once a company starts to budge it can create a ripple effect.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 09, 2017, 11:40:53 PM
But to move way from boring PC...we must confront he true scourge of our times...32MM SCALE!!!!!!

I'm seeing loads of new, interesting properties...in 32mm so completely incompatible with my 28mm stuff...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 10, 2017, 08:10:19 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on October 09, 2017, 11:29:16 PM
All for it, we need guard that don't have generic Caucasian features, although we should be careful, at 28mm scale its easy to do other races wrong...look at warlord and their Japanese...

Don't remind me. It's like 1960's 'Commando' comic style. And the fact that they painted them bright yellow ...

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5pcj5R3DqGE/USQP-hcvioI/AAAAAAAAAMc/5Z44Pbuw2d0/s1600/picard-double-facepalm-gif-5917.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 10, 2017, 08:14:42 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on October 09, 2017, 11:29:16 PM
I think the hobby does need change but I also realise that at the end of the day pragmatism will play out, some stuff will be adopted and some stuff will be flash in the pan as (getting back to my videogame example) the people yelling the loudest about how properties must conform aren't the ones actually buying them.

Okay, yeah, I gotcha. I don't disagree with that. I've never really been a shouter or a banner waver and tend to automatically tune out frothers, since it's my experience that when someone starts screaming to force people to hear (metaphorically and literally) it's often because their words aren't important enough to be listened to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 10, 2017, 12:04:49 PM
Was thinking more thee chaps and some of the other separate heads, the last are especially bad as despite being starved are bigger in scale than the older BA stuff.

I think that GW is doing well but needs to be careful, its had a taste of internet love but it could lose again very quickly, for instance the new necromunda release doesn't even have the main rulebook in it!

...I get the whole testing the waters with board-games (its led to good things so far) but this feels like chiselling a fan base that has given GW a second chance it doesn't deserve.

If i'm being honest I am slightly alarmed at the boobplate thing because in my eyes 40k is SUPPOSED TO BE IMPRACTICAL!

You pray to your guns and light incense to turn on your computer...of course the armour will be impractical...the fact is, their is nothing practical about an elite order of nuns in high end gear (as space marines do their job better, and mixed-sex stormtroopers can do it cheaper).

Also pretty much John Blanches entire art style would have to go lol.

Also looking online its a small male group wanting sob's for the most part, as far as I can tell the top GW armies for women seem to be Skaven and Tyranids oddly enough with some eldar/elves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 10, 2017, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: Scurv on October 10, 2017, 10:28:30 AM
somewhat harsh review cubs. Not very yellow.

They've repainted them (or perhaps rejigged the photos)! The ones from a few years back were just nasty.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on October 10, 2017, 12:58:10 PM
Those bamboo spear guys would make decent post apoc nutcases....  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 10, 2017, 01:03:21 PM
You can find the older paint jobs in the bowels of the site I think, the face sculpts are still iffy, TAG japanese are the superior choice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 10, 2017, 01:21:30 PM
I like diversity in my available hobby stuff. and it is already diverse, and continues getting even more so.

 This is a good thing. Those demanding radical change, well sorry but go get a dose of common sense, and whilst your at it don't come back. There is nothing in this hobby that needs that much of a radical change.

There's plenty of real things they could be trying to change, and should be shouting about.

Our miniature hobby may not be perfect, but its better than a lot of other stuff we could be doing.

GW are, I find it difficult typing this, actually doing alright currently, and if it takes another 3 years or 6 years or more to make some more changes, well carry on, as there are plenty of other stuff to do (maybe not more years actually - my teeth are getting long..)

This is a hobby, I like it,  its different for everyone, in its differences it still manages to brings a lot imaginative people together, with diverse ideas and approaches, and in that feeding the rest of us with fresh ideas that we ourselves may not have thought of.

It does not have to be PC or balanced or whatever all the time, it just has to be safe (clean?) fun.

Those bamboo guys do really look useful nutcases...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 10, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
The bamboo guys are very nice, shame they wouold tower over my chindits!

I've always thought adapting ww2 minis to a post apoc scenario might be cool...

I think the mistake companies make is they forget that you should show not tell, after all as Goebbels himself said the best propaganda works becuas ethe people dont even realise it is propaganda.

Bad squiddo has a good approach, it makes female minis but doesnt go out of its way to make a political point, the minis speak for themselves in terms of quality.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 10, 2017, 03:16:16 PM
Warlords still aren't as bad as the defiance games Chinese troops....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 10, 2017, 03:19:01 PM
For what it's worth, here's the question GW answered. Even female marines are hardly "radical" and the tone is hardly "demanding". It's a polite enquiry that was met by a polite answer from GW, a lot of support from many and a lot of bile from others.

Quote from: Feminist 40k
Greetings to you, Games Workshop. We are a fairly new 40k community.

Contrary to popular myth, there are a lot of women who like and play 40k. However, many women have said that they do love 40k - the game, the lore, and models - but are put off by a hostile gaming environment (especially online) and a rather limited amount of diversity among the model range.

We have hundreds of members, no more than 60% of whom identify as male - this is what can happen if misogyny is tackled. We have always stood up against the harassment many female gamers have encountered, especially online, but we respectfully suggest that Games Workshop could help improve the environment by improving (non-sexualised) representation in the model range, especially in the human factions in the Imperium.

Surely there are many women serving in the Astra Militarum, but we don't have models to represent that. The Adepta Sororitas are in need of an update... proper plastic kits, prices more in line with other armies, and hopefully less of the notorious "boob-plate" issue.

We also believe that female Astartes would be a very positive step. Given recent lore developments such as Primaris Marines, it seems a fairly simple thing to introduce Adeptae Astartes into the lore. We are convinced that these would prove very popular, especially for new players, and surely plenty of existing players would also like them too to add extra variety to their collections. A female hobbyist looking to get started into 40k shouldn't have to look too far to find an accessible army to collect, should she?

Thanks for reading.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 10, 2017, 03:59:28 PM
The Astartes are basically neutered and rightly angry about it, does it really matter what they were to start with?

I am very glad my hobby is not restricted to just GW, I know there are alternatives of most stuff available and have no issue gaming with them or using different ruless with GW stuff.

Still they are doing some interesting things, so will be interested to see what shows up in 3 years from now.....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 10, 2017, 04:28:07 PM
Indeed, GW works on a cycle so any changes made now wont become really apparent until a few years down the line.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on October 10, 2017, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: Scurv on October 10, 2017, 05:48:23 PM
Space marines are neutered! WHAT!

Now bear with me

If they are forcibly neutered that makes them involuntary celibates.

Aka Incels (google it)

That is possiblly the funniest miniatures joke ever played.

Also explains why the girls want nothing to do with space marines.

 lol lol lol lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on October 10, 2017, 06:20:03 PM
Neutered!

That explains the angry marines then :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 10, 2017, 07:55:37 PM
It is kind of implied over the years that the SPace Marine creation process renders them sterile.

effectively suppose you could call it a sort of chemical induced sterility... others put it down to heavy training routines etc - no time for anything else but WAR! Even if they coould - same difference whatever way you put it.

Others suggest otherwise of course, eg slaanesh followers - but hey thats chaos maybe they have a mutation for that, even then its an avoided subject as such for the marines - everybody else is doing it, but they are busy doing WAR! etc etc.

Which is fair enough its a wargame after all

But GW keep well clear of it - bloody good job to.

 I think its hilarious though that all those giant super warriors are the equivalent of pretty much Castrati with guns..

But I guess that means they can sing as they War as there is  only War!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 10, 2017, 10:02:19 PM
That's also funny given that, historically, eunuchs were known for being plump, passionless fellows, for the most part (which was a trait wanted by rulers for certain positions).

Quote from: Kommando_J on October 09, 2017, 08:15:45 PM
The thing about SoBs is the demand has been vocal but that does not necessarily mean popular, people are vocal about squats but most I know don't care about them and don't miss them.

You have to be careful of purely anecdotal "evidence", especially when it's from a community which may be something of a closed bubble, as local hobby groups often are.

As mentioned, many companies over the past 20 years have made plenty of money at GW's expense supplying a demand GW chose to ignore, (which, I might add, is not some new PC "trend" - people have been asking for two decades!). From not-Sisters to IG conversion kits, I think that this is evidence enough that there was and is more then enough money in such things to justify GW producing them in-house.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 10, 2017, 10:18:23 PM
Dunno where people are getting the idea that Space Marines are castrated (or that their willies are chopped off as someone on a Facebook thread was claiming). Sterile and asexual probably, but not castrated.

But it does get brought up every time someone suggests female marines, as if they are somehow genderless and therefore no female representation is needed.

From the Horus Heresy books in particular, a lot is made of how they are now 'post-human' and have great difficult relating to or understanding standard humans. Which could of course be a joke in itself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 10, 2017, 10:23:57 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on October 10, 2017, 07:55:37 PM


Others suggest otherwise of course, eg slaanesh followers - but hey thats chaos maybe they have a mutation for that....

There's actually a really good bit in the Horus heresy novel fulgrim about this.

During a concert created by a chaos tainted computer to celebrate the emperors childrens victory over a (chaotic!) alien race, the music being played is so tainted with the warp that it bend reality of drives people to madness and excess. The concert hall becomes an orgy of violence and ..well, orgy.

The marines in attendance are so pumped at the sheer experience of having their super human fortitude pushed to it's limits that when the musicians are slain by demons summoned by the chaotic tune, they grab the instruments and use them like weapons, causing mindless chaotic noise that kills people. It vividly expalins the marines physical pleasure at the flood of sensory experience and the hyper violence they are inflicting as they are pushed beyond their self imposed limits.

They become the first noise marines, But the whole scene is a really well written hint at the possible sexual repression and violent outburst that each marine is capable of.

Many don't like that book but I think it does a really god job of portraying slaanesh as something other than the god of tits and peeps, and as a much more sinister and disturbingly alluring force in so many ways.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 10, 2017, 10:31:14 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on October 10, 2017, 10:18:23 PM

From the Horus Heresy books in particular, a lot is made of how they are now 'post-human' and have great difficult relating to or understanding standard humans. Which could of course be a joke in itself.

Indeed. I like the section where loken befriends a remembrancer but is almost constantly confused by her every action or reaction to him, to the point where he finds the idea that a human might have a crush on him utterly impossible and has a serious moment of confused reflection.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 10, 2017, 10:39:45 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 10, 2017, 10:23:57 PM
the god of tits and peeps,

I think I've found a new line for my resume.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on October 10, 2017, 11:53:31 PM
For what it's worth these days, I recall that in one of the old 1st edition Space Hulk books the marines were, after discovering Traitor Marines,
discussing what could Chaos possibly promise to one of them that could drive them to betray all they stood for and one of the possibilities brought up
was fleshy pleasures of the adult sort and their collective reason for dismissing the possibility was something akin to "their training teaching them the
transitory nature of such things" which seems to suggest that back then they were packing functional guns downstairs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 11, 2017, 01:26:56 AM
Quote from: Cubs on October 10, 2017, 10:39:45 PM
I think I've found a new line for my resume.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pTRIqhkMHY
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 11, 2017, 06:49:24 AM
''You have to be careful of purely anecdotal "evidence", especially when it's from a community which may be something of a closed bubble, as local hobby groups often are.

As mentioned, many companies over the past 20 years have made plenty of money at GW's expense supplying a demand GW chose to ignore, (which, I might add, is not some new PC "trend" - people have been asking for two decades!). From not-Sisters to IG conversion kits, I think that this is evidence enough that there was and is more then enough money in such things to justify GW producing them in-house.''

Interesting points, i'd wonder for example, how much third party kits has affected sales/sales patterns, does buying third party(and therefore not buying SoB's for example) throw off the numbers as to GW's eyes less of their products are being bought (and logically they are unpopular?).

I'd disagree on the imperial guard conversion kits, forgeworld has done a few and I recall a very nifty pack of metal heads for conversions...we still need a sprue of great coats though.

I think someone with a thorough understanding of Gw release schedules needs to wade in and educate us as a friend pointed out, this is vital, for example: Inquisitor greyfax while released relatively recently was designed as a hobby piece(not for public sale mind you) a few years ago and therefore, her ''boobplate'' is not indicative of the current trend...but the trend a few years ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 11, 2017, 07:58:31 AM
Multiple sources show that space marines are functional but psycho conditioning, diet, meditation and various biological changes mean they feel no desire, the above character acknowledges a female iterator is classically beautiful but in a wholly intellectual way, he notes that his thinking her beautiful has no feelings behind it essentially.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 11, 2017, 01:02:21 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on October 11, 2017, 07:58:31 AM
Multiple sources show that space marines are functional but psycho conditioning, diet, meditation and various biological changes mean they feel no desire, the above character acknowledges a female iterator is classically beautiful but in a wholly intellectual way, he notes that his thinking her beautiful has no feelings behind it essentially.

and other's including sections of some older GW publications (I think I originally came across something in an old whitedwarf about sterility something so that kind of stuck in my young mind way back then), and more recently some of the novels (I think some of the Heresy ones actually) hint towards sterility or simply no interest/comprehension  in/of that kind of stuff - one comes to mind where a marine was remembering is family and his father saying goodbye when he was taken to be marined, and as he was the last son, although proud realised it would be the end of his family line - his only son becoming a marine and never having children..

I suspect its mainly "whatever flavour you want - done" thing. After all its fantastical sci fi grimness. Depending on the author/s choice they may lean in one or the other direction and change their mind later kind of thing.

At the end of the day we are playing with them primarily making pew pew noises, War! for our entertainment and pleasure, not.. other things.

I remember reading that particular book with the chaos "party" scene and the resulting slaughter. It still managed to avoid the sexualisation of the the Marines even in an orgy, they still ended up killing things, War!

"Hey, Noise Marine, is that a tentacle in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"

"WAR!"

Still its really just opinions on a small aspect of the 40k Universe, something to mention in passing, laugh at the variations and leave it aside just like GW do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 11, 2017, 01:11:54 PM
As for the:

Want plastic sisters, Want space Dwarfs, and we want them from GW.

I think that's basically answering itself, there are those who want them from GW, not some other source, they don't want to kitbash or use proxy miniatures.

It's a bit sad? perhaps, I can understand if its specific to the look/design hopes, that they want the particular GW style as such.

Each to their own. Just enjoy it.

But even if they do roadmap something in the next few years, no guarantee can be implied that it will be anything like what the requester wanted. Its GW after all.

I can be happy just to see what they are doing right now, its not all bad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 11, 2017, 10:22:35 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on October 11, 2017, 06:49:24 AM
Interesting points, i'd wonder for example, how much third party kits has affected sales/sales patterns, does buying third party(and therefore not buying SoB's for example) throw off the numbers as to GW's eyes less of their products are being bought (and logically they are unpopular?).

I'd disagree on the imperial guard conversion kits, forgeworld has done a few and I recall a very nifty pack of metal heads for conversions...we still need a sprue of great coats though.

I think someone with a thorough understanding of Gw release schedules needs to wade in and educate us as a friend pointed out, this is vital, for example: Inquisitor greyfax while released relatively recently was designed as a hobby piece(not for public sale mind you) a few years ago and therefore, her ''boobplate'' is not indicative of the current trend...but the trend a few years ago.

The exorbitant price of the metal Sisters, even though most of them are technically in print, probably has something to do with it too.  
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 11, 2017, 10:30:29 PM
Pics doing the round online of a forgeworld primaris super heavy grav tank.

It's an ugly ,heavy, boxy looking beast bristling with guns and i want to marry it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on October 11, 2017, 10:57:58 PM
Well, it will probably cost as much as a wedding.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 12, 2017, 12:03:20 PM
Quote from: Gibby on October 11, 2017, 10:57:58 PM
Well, it will probably cost as much as a wedding.

It'll bring more joy and last longer though.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 12, 2017, 12:26:52 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on October 11, 2017, 01:11:54 PM
Want plastic sisters, Want space Dwarfs, and we want them from GW.

I think that's basically answering itself, there are those who want them from GW, not some other source, they don't want to kitbash or use proxy miniatures.

It's a bit sad? perhaps, I can understand if its specific to the look/design hopes, that they want the particular GW style as such.


That's not true. I know many of my customers want GW female models, but still by lots of my heads in the meantime. If it's from GW it's visible in a way conversions using my products will never be: in a shop on the high street for wee girls (and boys) to see and be inspired by.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on October 12, 2017, 08:01:05 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/12/forge-world-preview-the-first-ever-primaris-super-heavy/

Any guesses on the price?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 12, 2017, 08:03:34 PM
All of the money.

you send GW your bank statement, and if they decide you have enough, they take it all and send you one.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on October 12, 2017, 08:09:09 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 11, 2017, 10:30:29 PM
a super heavy grav tank

A...what?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 12, 2017, 09:14:29 PM
It's very nice looking but would take up half the table.

I like how the title reads "Forge World Preview: The First Ever Primaris Super-heavy" as if Primaris space marines have been around as long as the regular marines and they finally got around to making a tank for them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on October 12, 2017, 09:25:17 PM
Has anybody noticed.....a lack of skulls! :o

That may be more use as a generic sci fi tank! 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 12, 2017, 09:33:00 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on October 12, 2017, 12:26:52 PM
That's not true. I know many of my customers want GW female models, but still by lots of my heads in the meantime. If it's from GW it's visible in a way conversions using my products will never be: in a shop on the high street for wee girls (and boys) to see and be inspired by.

For some it is, I don't say all - I simply say "there are those" and your customer's are simply proving the over side to it, some people, like me even, are "those that are", who are happy to source or find something to suite a specific need elsewhere, the point, is that some, are not. They may change or they may stringently stick to their guns as such, or heads even.

Its a self limiting choice as such, if they are happy with that, great but there's a limit as to what they will get from that single source.

I am not in denial and saying "everyone" - as that denies the depth and variety that I have already mentioned I like so much.

So yes it is true, but so is what you say as well.

Both aspects stand in relation to the hobby space as such and how some perceive how they want it, like it and have it. or not in the case of some not currently available GW Plastic things.

I Like super heavy grav tank..

it does not sound right but I like it.

Sadly I, no. wow. nice. no. I am financially incapable of whatever they will be asking for that.

Quote from: Andym on October 12, 2017, 09:25:17 PM

Has anybody noticed.....a lack of skulls! :o

That may be more use as a generic sci fi tank! 8)

Those cost exta, and come in a seperate optional multipart upgrade kit....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on October 12, 2017, 11:20:46 PM
Really nice vehicle, but a little large for my gaming tables! Oh and out of my price range
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Connectamabob on October 13, 2017, 01:18:35 AM
The tank... actually looks pretty cool. I'm picky about sci-fi tanks, but I like that one.

It is impossible for me to imagine it coming in at a reasonable price point though. Anything resin that size is going to cost a mint, and when you add the "GW markup" to the estimate, things get far beyond nope. Everyone will want one, but they'll probably only actually sell like five of them.

If I could say anything to GW about it, it would probably be "anything that retails for more than 1/3 the cost of a 3D printer is only going to make your 'alt minis' problem worse".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on October 13, 2017, 02:51:30 AM
I like the way it looks, but definitely won't be getting it.  It'd be cool for the once a year giant mega game type thing that some people do at a con or whatever.

The current most expensive space marine item forge world sells is the Sokar pattern Stormbird at £750.  The Thunderhawk is £450.  I don't know their sizes well enough to know which is more analagous to this tank, but I could easily see it being around the Thunderhawk's price.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 13, 2017, 04:21:15 AM
I don't look on FW much so I must say that finding out that even just a Thunderhawk costs 450 quid bowled me over.

Holy Christmas biscuits! I can't even begin to imagine what this gravtank will cost.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on October 13, 2017, 07:29:09 AM
Good grief, it's big - the turret looks Predator-sized.
Nice design which balances the old look - it's a bit Land Raidery up front - with something new.
Something old, something new, something blue (at least the UM one in the video) - did someone mention weddings?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on October 13, 2017, 09:46:51 AM
It's big and likely expensive.  I think the real issue for me is I doubt I'm well heeled enough for that kind of party.  If money were no object I could see building it without that giant turret and using it as a drop ship for any number of sci fi games.  I like that it isn't festooned with "iconography".  Not bad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 13, 2017, 11:42:03 AM
Quote from: chamberlain on October 13, 2017, 02:51:30 AM
I like the way it looks, but definitely won't be getting it.  It'd be cool for the once a year giant mega game type thing that some people do at a con or whatever.

The current most expensive space marine item forge world sells is the Sokar pattern Stormbird at £750.  The Thunderhawk is £450.  I don't know their sizes well enough to know which is more analagous to this tank, but I could easily see it being around the Thunderhawk's price.



Probably closer to thunderhawk than stormbird prices. The stormbird is HUGE. it's what the US president would describe as "bigly". I can see this clocking in around 400,but it looks a little shorter than the thunderhawk. Probably equivalent in resin when you swap out wings for turrets etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on October 13, 2017, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: chamberlain on October 13, 2017, 02:51:30 AM
...forge world sells ... the Sokar pattern Stormbird...

How in the Emperor's Stool Sample's name is that a Stormbird? :o :-[

I once started the process of building a Stormbird of my own. I gathered all descriptions of the craft in the Horus Heresy books, and got a pretty clear picture of how it should look (still open to a lot of interpretations though).

This here is basically a scaled up Thunderhawk, and not at all in line with how it was described. The descriptions go on about how streamlined and sleek it is. With variable geometry wings, room for 50 marines and one or two Rhino's, on two flightdecks.

It was built with tech predating the Crusade; much more expensive, advanced and graceful than the more prosaic and practical later stuff.

So no flying bricks, but actual large planelike craft.

My effort was based on a Thunderbird2 toy, married to a 1/48 F-14's swing wings and tail surfaces. And it would actually be big enough to carry the described payload. The hangup was getting the swing wing mechanism small enough to not interfere with the functional interior.

One of these days I should pick it up and finish it (it has been languishing for almost a decade). My Imperial Fists would be grateful to finally receive their ticket off of this dirtball... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on October 13, 2017, 01:00:35 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on October 12, 2017, 09:33:00 PM
Quote from: Andym on October 12, 2017, 09:25:17 PM
Has anybody noticed.....a lack of skulls! :o
Those cost extra, and come in a seperate optional multipart upgrade kit....

Yep, the skulls are available (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Skulls-2017) for just £15 extra. Bargain! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: secharles on October 13, 2017, 01:10:21 PM
Quote from: Gibby on October 11, 2017, 10:57:58 PM
Well, it will probably cost as much as a wedding.

still ... cheaper than a divorce
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 15, 2017, 03:40:16 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on October 13, 2017, 01:00:35 PM
Those cost extra, and come in a seperate optional multipart upgrade kit....


Yep, the skulls are available (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Skulls-2017) for just £15 extra. Bargain! ;)

Those skulls are actually great piece of kit!
I was making fun about this box-o-skullz and ended getting one and being happy about them :P

You are thinking about set of doors with skulls like these but I guess twice the size and price
(https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99550102013_DEATHGUARDLANDRAIDERDOORS1.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 19, 2017, 12:13:23 PM
Just read on Tabletop Gaming News that Wizkids are partnering with GW

official announcement - here (https://wizkids.com/2017/10/19/wizkids-announces-new-partnership-with-games-workshop/)

Quote
The multi-year deal will span numerous categories and include the most iconic Warhammer 40,000 characters and more. WizKids will create two new board games, along with dice games based in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, with additional plans to republish classic board games Fury of Dracula and Relic.

Thoughts??? :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 19, 2017, 12:52:02 PM
Don't much care tbh, only liked the boardgames for the nice metal minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 19, 2017, 01:50:20 PM
So wizkids will make 30 games, promote nome of them, make a variation of dice masters that no one plays, then forget about them all in two weeks because the one person left on the planet that cares about heroclix needs another spiderman.

Is this gw doing wizkids a favour or something?
"" hey kid, print this for us and we'll pretend to be your mate for the afternoon "

" sure thing mister G! And can I maybe use your IP to draw in fans to our floundering game systems? "

" well see, now eat these worms. "
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 19, 2017, 02:31:04 PM
'Fury of Dracula' was brilliant and I was just thinking about it the other day. There was so much tension in the game, so many ways to win/lose for each side and a nice combination of good planning, skilful use of resources and luck!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 19, 2017, 02:41:31 PM
Quote from: Cubs on October 19, 2017, 02:31:04 PM
'Fury of Dracula' was brilliant and I was just thinking about it the other day. There was so much tension in the game, so many ways to win/lose for each side and a nice combination of good planning, skilful use of resources and luck!

Aye, it's a very fun and frustrating game. But the fact that tehy specifically mention it is what makes me think they're using wizkids as a glorified printing company.The FF Dracula was fine, And i doubt GW will really ask for much of an overhaul of it or relic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 19, 2017, 04:28:53 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 19, 2017, 02:41:31 PM
Aye, it's a very fun and frustrating game. But the fact that tehy specifically mention it is what makes me think they're using wizkids as a glorified printing company.The FF Dracula was fine, And i doubt GW will really ask for much of an overhaul of it or relic.

If it's anything like Talisman I'd expect the wizkids releases to just be reprints of the FFG editions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 19, 2017, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on October 19, 2017, 04:28:53 PM
If it's anything like Talisman I'd expect the wizkids releases to just be reprints of the FFG editions.

That's what i mean by wizkids are being used as a glorified printing service and being paid token service by being allowed to mess with the 40k ip for two minutes.

GW are going to dress wizkids up in Fantasy flights old clothes, put it in a cheap wig and have it act out all it's dirty desires. deep down wizkids will know GW doesn't love it, it's just a rebound, But hey, they get new dice masters sets out of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 20, 2017, 07:55:51 PM
"The multi-year deal will span numerous categories and include the most iconic Warhammer 40,000 characters and more. WizKids will create two new board games, along with dice games based in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, with additional plans to republish classic board games Fury of Dracula and Relic."

Called it.

If they were interested in making serious money they'd do a 40k version of their pocket model game. Imagine a booster pack containing two pop out 40k ships and a little rules sheet for pocket space combat.

They won't because that would require more than half an hours development and support.but a man can dream.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 21, 2017, 10:19:42 AM
A few made to order Eldar in the webstore. A couple of classics there.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=1125463923+974158953&utm_campaign=f57654d292-GW+21st+October+Craftworlds+GB&utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-f57654d292-114372085 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=1125463923+974158953&utm_campaign=f57654d292-GW+21st+October+Craftworlds+GB&utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-f57654d292-114372085)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on October 21, 2017, 06:53:42 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on October 21, 2017, 10:19:42 AM
A few made to order Eldar in the webstore. A couple of classics there.

Interesting, I never knew they made an official bonesinger.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 21, 2017, 08:36:59 PM
They did and as a promo model (for DoW release ? but I might be mistaken here) for a short time.
And it reached very high prices on secondary market lately and was heavily recasted.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 26, 2017, 01:11:14 AM
A very funny little article to tie into the World of Tanks game.

"The Tyger tank was first seen in the so-called “Two World War”. This conflict seems to have been notable for only featuring two planets – Terra and Venus – making it a relatively small skirmish. Like the MULE used by the Adeptus Mechanicus in days of yore, the Tyger is probably named after an animal of Old Earth, in this case, large, nine-legged insectoids from the Yndonesian Bloc, bred as beasts of war. One early tank commander, Wilhelm Swordsworth, allegedly wrote war poetry about the prowess of this vehicle, but alas only fragments remain. The Tyger was apparently a large battle tank for its time, but is several measures smaller than a Baneblade, indicating the primitive nature of early Terran technology."

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/10/25/the-history-of-the-imperium-tanks-of-old-terra/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 26, 2017, 07:52:05 AM
Quote from: nic-e on October 26, 2017, 01:11:14 AM
A very funny little article to tie into the World of Tanks game.

"The Tyger tank was first seen in the so-called “Two World War”. This conflict seems to have been notable for only featuring two planets – Terra and Venus – making it a relatively small skirmish. Like the MULE used by the Adeptus Mechanicus in days of yore, the Tyger is probably named after an animal of Old Earth, in this case, large, nine-legged insectoids from the Yndonesian Bloc, bred as beasts of war. One early tank commander, Wilhelm Swordsworth, allegedly wrote war poetry about the prowess of this vehicle, but alas only fragments remain. The Tyger was apparently a large battle tank for its time, but is several measures smaller than a Baneblade, indicating the primitive nature of early Terran technology."

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/10/25/the-history-of-the-imperium-tanks-of-old-terra/

It gets better, in the "sher-man" description:  "Attacking the enemy with a cavalry sabre from the turret hatch would be all but impossible due to its awkward position, even if the crew drove the officer very close."

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on October 26, 2017, 09:00:50 AM
lol That rarely yielded the desired effect. Not for lack of trying though... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on October 26, 2017, 06:48:16 PM
Just opened a GW email with a link to Necromunda.com - and it's crashed! I suspect this one'll do well for 'em.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 26, 2017, 07:08:03 PM
It should.  The new model sprues are pretty slick (monopose-esque with variable heads/weapons) and some of the monoposes are paired and swappable (so you get the fluidity of the monopose with the variety of plastics).  Looks promising.  Here's hoping the other four gangs look good - since I like neither Escher nor Goliath (yawn).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on October 26, 2017, 07:23:50 PM
Playing Necromunda; Possibly.  I'd really like to paint those models and build a hot terrain set.  Then I would play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 26, 2017, 08:35:49 PM
Quote from: YPU on October 26, 2017, 07:52:05 AM
It gets better, in the "sher-man" description:  "Attacking the enemy with a cavalry sabre from the turret hatch would be all but impossible due to its awkward position, even if the crew drove the officer very close."

 lol
I rather expect that only tanks from the Bright-Tush Chapter were equipped for that sort of thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 27, 2017, 01:00:15 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on October 26, 2017, 08:35:49 PM
I rather expect that only tanks from the Bright-Tush Chapter were equipped for that sort of thing.

Fear not..
Although here obviously pictured outside of the tank, one of the protagonist of cult classic polish series Czterej Pancerni i pies (4 tankers and a dog) drove T-34 with sabre close by.

(http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/95/db/c2/z12770197IE,Wlodzimierz-Press-.jpg)

And returning to the real world.
All I see about Necromunda so far I like. (except starter set not having full rules inside :()

I love little elements of terrain inside (data panels and little shrine rox) but what cached my eye was not only another box as terrain piece (lovely detail), but box printed inside as large room (great for some Pit Slave gladiatorial combat)
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Necro-SpielOct26-Products2tcs.jpg) !

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 27, 2017, 01:10:53 AM
Also, notice that some of the bulkhead pieces are either copies of the originals or definite homages.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 27, 2017, 04:36:51 AM
I really preferred how the old Necromunda was playing in wide open spaces which really spoke of the enormity of the Hive city. The underhive was so large it had it's own environment!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on October 27, 2017, 08:54:06 AM
Agree. Like Old New York in Futurama.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on October 27, 2017, 09:06:27 AM
Looks great!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on October 27, 2017, 09:42:12 AM
Oh the temptation of it all!!  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 27, 2017, 10:11:40 AM
Rulebook for that will be released alongthe game, but what worry me more is that you got roles only for Escher and Goliath in main box, and we dont know if rules for rest of the house gangs at least will be included in the Gang War or we will have to wait for another expansion..

(https://necromunda.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/09/Gang-War-ENG.png)
Quote
The rules included with the Necromunda: Underhive boxed game cover battles set in the claustrophobic tunnels beneath the hives – but gangs also clash above ground, amid sprawling machinery that fills vast domes from ground to ceiling. Necromunda: Gang War is a set of rules that allow the players to use 3D terrain in their games, bringing a literal new dimension to their battles – and also an incredibly detailed campaign system, in which 2-6 (or more!) players develop their gangs, fight for territory and dominate the other Houses.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on October 27, 2017, 10:37:14 AM
Quote from: AWu on October 27, 2017, 10:11:40 AM
Rulebook for that will be released alongthe game, but what worry me more is that you got roles only for Escher and Goliath in main box, and we dont know if rules for rest of the house gangs at least will be included in the Gang War or we will have to wait for another expansion..

(https://necromunda.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/09/Gang-War-ENG.png)


What I'm unsure about is if I could just get Gang War and buy the dice etc desperately. I don't really need the starter box and I want to use all the fancy terrain I bought for shadow war anyway. But will the tukes either be available sepeerately or included in gang war?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 27, 2017, 11:02:06 AM
Thats a big If.

Measuring by blood bowl 74 pages supplement I would say no..
Page  48 is a furthest page pointed to in the reference sheet.. so unless there is a lot of background in the rulebook or/and rules are super dense written I doubt they will be included in the supplement (Blood bowl model doesnt have them in supplements - but there is all released so far team list in each)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Darren on October 27, 2017, 11:12:37 AM
For BB, the core rules are in the main set and it's not available separately.  The add-ons just add extra rules, teams and star players.

For Necromunda, I would imagine you will need the core rules from the box set and then the Gang War book will add rules for playing in 3D terrain and extra gangs.  I'm sure other gangs not in the box will be downloadable from the website.

All I can say is that it's probably worth getting the box set, especially if you can get it from a discounted Indy retailer.  You would be able to sell the gangs and scenery from the box on eBay easy enough if you didn't want them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 27, 2017, 01:02:54 PM
from what I can tell the boxed set has the rules for underhive/tile fighting,  while the expansion is more for the futher up hiveclassic girder and walk ways look.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 27, 2017, 01:28:39 PM
They might release Rulebook as stand alone similar to Shadow War but there was no information given on the topic and Starter Box is not previeved as limited release.
So Blood Bowl treatment is almost sure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 27, 2017, 08:26:46 PM
If you go to the website there is a section for legacy gangs which is currently waiting to be updated , but will most likely provide rules for all the old gangs on release day.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 28, 2017, 10:37:47 AM
New Shadespire factions are up for preorder. 14 pounds (Wayland games price) seems like a good deal grumble grumble $60 NZD grumble grumble buy it on ebay instead
I was surprised to notice that the whole undead set only had 8 skullz featuring on them... and as there are 7 minis that means only 1 that is not an actual head for the mini!  :o
Easily the nicest skeletons GW have brought out IMO
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on October 28, 2017, 12:14:20 PM
£13 at dark sphere
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on October 28, 2017, 12:33:46 PM
Ohhhhh! Those skeles are lovely! :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 02:15:51 PM
Look what the postman just dropped off....

A wonderfully produced book of prints by Mr John Blanche.It's a wonderful thing and every image is packed full of wonderful artwork and amazing reimaginings of historic works of art.

The print quality is fantastic, you can clearly see every mark and line without any pixels or blurring.
I'll post up a more detailed review of the works inside the book on my blog soon but I had to show it off now!

(https://i.imgur.com/kKY9sza.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/k4Wnkah.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/bJHFau5.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/CLZQOwW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0aDx7jB.jpg)

And my favourite piece from the book....

A wonderful reworking of JMW Turners The fighting temeraire

(https://i.imgur.com/FoMfh7C.jpg)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 02:22:49 PM
 unrelated to my above post ..
Finally, we’ve had loads of questions from Necromunda fans about when Delaque, Cawdor, Orlock and Van Saar will be joining Goliath and Escher in glorious plastic. We’re pleased to say that Necromunda: Underhive and Gang War will be but the first of many Necromunda releases. While Goliath and Escher will be available in their own boxes from day one, they’ll be followed by the four other Great Houses in 2018. If you’re eager to get stuck in straight away, make sure to like the Necromunda Facebook page for the latest news and updates about the game, and be sure to check out the Necromunda website.


So if you just want the mini's you can buy them straight away.
Cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on October 28, 2017, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 02:22:49 PM
unrelated to my above post ..
Finally, we’ve had loads of questions from Necromunda fans about when Delaque, Cawdor, Orlock and Van Saar will be joining Goliath and Escher in glorious plastic. We’re pleased to say that Necromunda: Underhive and Gang War will be but the first of many Necromunda releases. While Goliath and Escher will be available in their own boxes from day one, they’ll be followed by the four other Great Houses in 2018. If you’re eager to get stuck in straight away, make sure to like the Necromunda Facebook page for the latest news and updates about the game, and be sure to check out the Necromunda website.


So if you just want the mini's you can buy them straight away.
Cool.

There's already a seller on eBay where you can "pre-order" the gangs for £50 ffs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on October 28, 2017, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 02:15:51 PM
Look what the postman just dropped off....

A wonderfully produced book of prints by Mr John Blanche.It's a wonderful thing and every image is packed full of wonderful artwork and amazing reimaginings of historic works of art.

The print quality is fantastic, you can clearly see every mark and line without any pixels or blurring.
I'll post up a more detailed review of the works inside the book on my blog soon but I had to show it off now!

(https://i.imgur.com/kKY9sza.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/k4Wnkah.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/bJHFau5.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/CLZQOwW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0aDx7jB.jpg)

And my favourite piece from the book....

A wonderful reworking of JMW Turners The fighting temeraire

[img width=507 height=598]https://i.imgur.com/FoMfh7C.jpg




Nothing arrived for me here today, I'll be waiting by the front door all Monday!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 28, 2017, 02:53:15 PM
Got mine too, as a Xmas gift for my partner who's new to JB's work but loves all the wee details and the intricacy of the drawing. It's a lovely, lovely book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 02:54:25 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on October 28, 2017, 12:14:20 PM
£13 as dark sphere

You can afford to offer cheap discounts when you don't pay proper tax ,employee pensions or insurance in case an employee falls of a ladder and refuse shifts to any employee that complains....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on October 28, 2017, 03:40:39 PM
?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 03:57:59 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on October 28, 2017, 03:40:39 PM
?

All truth. I've been told by friends who are still there that it's not got better since I left.
There's a reason they went through 14 employees in the time I was there.

I'm not saying don't buy from them cus I know people working there still who I don't want to be out of a job and I don't wish for the failure of any brick and mortar store, but I'd maybe go with Gifts for Geeks or element games or warboar. Even wayland for all their issues do at the very least pay their employees properly and ensure a safe work environment.




Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on October 28, 2017, 04:17:18 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 03:57:59 PM
Even wayland for all their issues do at the very least pay their employees properly and ensure a safe work environment.

You need to expound on this statement. Especially concerning a safe work environment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 04:59:54 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on October 28, 2017, 04:17:18 PM
You need to expound on this statement. Especially concerning a safe work environment.

very well.

So, staff at dark sphere have no contract.When i started work I was told my contract would be sorted soon, but this had been the owners line for the last 5 years according to the manager.
We had no fire safety routine, This was left to us to make at one point despite us having no fire safety training, and our advise was not impleimented.
(the fire exit was blocked by shelving for spry cans.)

We had to climb ladders regularly. I have had ladder training but none was provided by dark sphere and we had no safety measures should the ladder slip on the smooth concrete floor.

We were not registered as employed, paid only cash in hand (with a drug dealer handshake..i kid you not.) and as such we received no workplace pension, were not insured in case of injury and had no guarantee of sick pay or any rights , which led to staff freqently having wages frozen or being refused hours if they annoyed the owners by asking for things like safety training.

no lifting training was provided. I'm a small guy but on numerous occasions I was told outright to life huge boxes up a ladder. This led to one member of staff getting a serious back injury and another developing knee problems.

The owners seek out and employ recent immigrants to the UK who are not aware of UK employment law and fire them without notice after a couple of weeks.Some of these guys barely spoke english but were put on the shop floor to answer customer issues and then got shouted at by the owners for not knowing what to say, or were new to london and made to travel across the city on errands.

Pay rates and dates were not set, meaning we had no way of ensuring we could even pay our rent on time.this led one employee to quit and LEAVE THE UK because the owners refused outright to give her a guaranteed wage of £300 a month despite her doing work FAR in excess of that rate.

Because we were not officially employed no tax was being paid on our behalf, which has lead past employees to get in trouble with HMRC because they assumed legitimacy on behalf of the owners. One employee is still paying this back. (There were rumours and some evidence that money was being funnelled into a charity registered to the same adress as the company for tax reasons but we were never able to confirm that.)

All of this pales in comparison to the attitude of the owners , Who were frequently rude, threatening or near violent to staff. (and some customers) All of us were threatened with firing multiple times for minor issues. Communication from the owners was non existent and many things handled in private emails were not passed down to us, leading to mistakes on orders which we were then reprimanded for.

Due to the need to handle inter staff communications we were all in a staff facebook page and had to be logged into facebook at all times, Which meant we would often be shouted down via facebook at 3 in the morning or forced to answer work issues during off days, without pay.
our facebook profiles and messages were often read by the owners while we were not at work as they had saved out passwords without our consent, and on numerous occasions they would ask us about private messages between employees.

There is FAR FAR FAR more that I'm leaving out but yeah, After working there I won't buy there.
It was enough of a job to get me through uni, but the other full time staff were often driven to tears (literally) by the working environment.

As i say, in my time there 14 members of staff came and went.

EDIT:there's also the attitude of the owners to other stores. Okay, you are a competitor, but there is communication and agreement between the stores around london of WHO does what games WHEN. When approached to join, the owners fo dark sphere told the other stores to fuck off and deliberatly held events to steal their player base.Ask any of the owners of stores around london about dark sphere and they'll have some stories to tell you.
Likewise their attitude to their suppliers was atrocious, often shouting and swearing down the phone at them.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 28, 2017, 06:56:43 PM
Sorry nic-e but that sounds like a store which does need to fail. Preserving neighbourhood B&M stores isn't worth someone's life, health or livelihood. To say nothing of their sanity or peace of mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 07:07:41 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on October 28, 2017, 06:56:43 PM
Sorry nic-e but that sounds like a store which does need to fail. Preserving neighbourhood B&M stores isn't worth someone's life, health or livelihood. To say nothing of their sanity or peace of mind.

honestly the best thing that could happen to it is that someone else buys it and turns it into a well run store.
but since that won't happen you're right, it does need to go under and someone else open a replacement.
It won't ,because it's the main venue for MTG in central london, But it does need too.

As i say, the reason i don't actively wish for it's demise is for the sake of the staff and community i know, not out of any great love for the store itself.If a replacement came and hired them it'd be fine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on October 28, 2017, 07:18:34 PM
That book looks awesome!  I saw on a post on Inquisitorium warning of it's sale but 3 hours was too late :( .  Great looking book.  Would love to rifle through those images.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on October 28, 2017, 08:26:02 PM
Is there a link to the Blanche book please? I've just done a search and couldn't find anything. Am guessing it's limited or out of my price range but you never know.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on October 28, 2017, 08:43:41 PM
The price was nice but the run was too small to grab :( .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 09:23:26 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on October 28, 2017, 08:26:02 PM
Is there a link to the Blanche book please? I've just done a search and couldn't find anything. Am guessing it's limited or out of my price range but you never know.

Price was £30 but it sold out quickly, a limited one time run.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 28, 2017, 09:26:01 PM
I would just like to say that I am RIDICULOUSLY excited about the new Necromunda. As someone who seriously lacks for space, I am pleased it has a floorplan version. I can't wait to try it on my old Space Hulk floorplans!

(Also hoping the rules will be less gash than last time. Positive buzz about recent GW rulesets is promising).  
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 28, 2017, 10:19:33 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 04:59:54 PM
very well... lots of bad stuff.

Sounds like great fun! I did some seasonal work at a major toy retailer 12 years ago. On the first day we had to watch one of those crap health and safety videos before being sent off into the warehouse where every rule was broken. Shelves stacked way higher than they should have been requiring some dangerous ladder balancing to stock and pull. Boxes (usually big ride on toys) stacked so high that they had to be climbed on to reach those at the top and thrown down to the floor just to 'safely' get them and yourself down (ever wondered why you've bought a box of smashed stuff?!). Lots of boxes would have 25kg+ weight labels on them and clearly state a two man carry requirement but good luck finding help to lift them when staff were unofficially expected to pull and carry those boxes on their own. It was rather amazing to see some staff shouldering 6 foot snooker tables through the store. I had to drag the bloody things. You should have seen the manager panic when one of the temps put his shoulder out trying to stack a heavy weight box at arms length above his head whilst standing on the top step of a ladder. Of course it was his fault not the store's even though the whole warehouse was expected to be stocked that way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on October 28, 2017, 10:37:41 PM
As a customer I've never had anything but great service from dark sphere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 28, 2017, 11:18:43 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on October 28, 2017, 10:37:41 PM
As a customer I've never had anything but great service from dark sphere.

That's not because of the owners ,It's because the staff care about the games and the community. The warehouse is separate from the store so those guys are more free to do their jobs but are also constantly supervised by the owners mother.

The guys working there cared about doing their job well because A:the staff are gamers too, and B:any minor delay meant having the owner scream in your face.
(We all get good service from Amazon but they treat their employees like crap.When you're afraid that slipping up means you can't pay your rent , you tend to bend over backwards for customers.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 29, 2017, 03:11:49 AM
I got into a big argument on facebook about the Voodoo Forest thing, people buying up loads of copies despite it being a limited non-repeated run, (you can probably guess which was me).

One guy for boasting that he ''held off'' before buying two extra copies(one to give and one to keep, apparently he plans to cut up the first...), later another guy got attacked for suggesting to Blanche that he explicitly say one copy per person to avoid any more people using the ''I wasn't told not to'' excuse.

One thing i have noticed sometimes...Blanche himself can be very cranky/dismissive to his fans, he pretty much outright accused one guy of plagiarism, he often takes statements or comments(some not even directed at him) badly and overall comes off as not really getting the point of social media...like Jesus man, cheer up and be nicer, his fans would do probably anything for him and he treat them at times almost like an inconvenience(is this just me seeing this?).

Also I dnt get why he cant let someone else handle distribution, all he does is the art but he makes it seem like a huge hassle printing and shipping the stuff(im pretty sure its done by others?) which is why its a limited run.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 29, 2017, 09:49:55 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on October 29, 2017, 03:11:49 AM
One thing i have noticed sometimes...Blanche himself can be very cranky/dismissive to his fans, he pretty much outright accused one guy of plagiarism, he often takes statements or comments(some not even directed at him) badly and overall comes off as not really getting the point of social media...like Jesus man, cheer up and be nicer, his fans would do probably anything for him and he treat them at times almost like an inconvenience(is this just me seeing this?).

Also I dnt get why he cant let someone else handle distribution, all he does is the art but he makes it seem like a huge hassle printing and shipping the stuff(im pretty sure its done by others?) which is why its a limited run.


He’s old, he’s ill and it’s his personal FB page so he can do as he wants. There are other forms of social media that would likely work better for him, but it is what it is. I think we can all understand a pensioner 'not really getting' Facebook. Or perhaps we could all realise not everyone wants to use Facebook in the same way.

I got impression that printing and postage was handled by friends, not by anyone expecting a payday. So one print run it is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 29, 2017, 12:19:49 PM
Voodoo forest was a personal project for him ,not a commissioned work. the fact that a print run went up for sale at all is sort of amazing since he normally just gives a few prints to close friends.

As to Blanche on facebook, he's very friendly with his friends....
When he joined he was mostly just adding people from the Inquisimunda and AoS28 groups whose work he liked. Then word got out that he was on facebook and people began bombarding him with messages asking for tips or validation when all he wanted was to talk about miniatures.
And then you have the 17 year olds in call of duty t shirts saying his work isn't very 40k? That'd make me grumpy.

I also wonder if his sudden social media presence wasn't nudged along a little by gw?I know he isn't an employee of theirs anymore, But you have to wonder if someone at GW said "hey john, there's a large community of modellers who idolise your work,it'd be amazing if you could interact with them and make them feel more engaged with the mainstream hobby?" at which point Blanche chugged a bottle of windsor and newton crimson ink and rode off on a latex motorbike .
He used to post on iron sleet and spiky rat pack but always under a different name and only because he knew those guys personally.

Also yeah, He's an elderly chap with long term health issues who just wants to show his toy soldiers off, not act as messiah.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 29, 2017, 09:32:59 PM
NOW, I already have a nice little painting holder from Oshiro .

BUT, this looks very nice, with little springloaded grips to hold models.
Also i got mine at salute but it took me bloody ages to find anyone selling one and i've never seen a store carry anything like it, so this is GW filling a hobby tool highstreet niche.Sure i have a draw full of corks like everyone else, but this looks nice, chunky, comfy to hold.

(https://i.imgur.com/TR5MDq5.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 30, 2017, 12:10:32 AM
''He’s old, he’s ill and it’s his personal FB page so he can do as he wants.''

I understand he is both old and ill and that he doesn't get facebook, also I was talking about the group interactions, since he took all the pics off his personal page people really only interact through the various groups.

''There are other forms of social media that would likely work better for him,''

Indeed, he has an instagram which he ported his pics to, id would think its a better fit too.

''When he joined he was mostly just adding people from the Inquisimunda and AoS28 groups whose work he liked. Then word got out that he was on facebook and people began bombarding him with messages asking for tips or validation when all he wanted was to talk about miniatures.
And then you have the 17 year olds in call of duty t shirts saying his work isn't very 40k? That'd make me grumpy.''

People do talk about miniatures and I have yet to see any examples of 17 year olds saying his work isn't 40k(they'd be banned right quick).

I can get the logic by GW if true in that inq28 has boomed, it also is one of the things keeping him in a job as I find that GW itself is utilising his artwork less and less compared to before (a trend I hate).

''I got impression that printing and postage was handled by friends, not by anyone expecting a payday.''

Me too but when people complained he made it seem like it was a personal hassle which confused me.

Tbh methinks things should go back to intermediaries.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 30, 2017, 05:56:37 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on October 30, 2017, 12:10:32 AM
I have yet to see any examples of 17 year olds saying his work isn't 40k(they'd be banned right quick).

Maybe that's why you haven't seen any lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 30, 2017, 07:47:50 AM
Lol yes, but if that is the case, why take it out on others? If you go online you are going to be exposed to people saying things you don't like.

I guess it just sits wrong with me how dismissive he can be, flinging around accusations of plagiarism when he does not own nor did he invent the concept of spooky forests for example.

I think this may be a case of not meeting your idols (albeit online).

Take our very own Fenrir for example, I would hold that up as a great example of a creator interacting positively with fans, Blanche could take notes lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 30, 2017, 08:33:20 AM
''I so agree with this. Possibly because I say an awful lot of stuff people don't like IRL and on the net. ''

Lol, who hasn't? Chances are no matter what you say someone will find it offensive/annoying etc.

''all art is derivative and mr blanche should know this.''

Indeed, and the way he went about it felt wrong as well(not sure if thread is still up) I would almost guess that jealousy may be partial motivation as the fellow in question has done some truly fantastic/creepy conversions and art pices, up there with blanches best almost.

''If you idolise people you will invariably be disappointed.''

True, although I did not go so far as to idolise him, I would have considered him a hobby hero/inspiration in the past.

And to pick up an earlier point while Blanche may be annoyed about people asking for tips etc....what did he expect, for years he did have a painting column called Blanchitsu that focused on his style, it'd be like Bruce Lee getting mad somebody asked him about Jeet Kun Do.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 30, 2017, 08:48:36 AM
IIRC he still has that column every now and again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 30, 2017, 11:52:13 AM
Quote from: YPU on October 30, 2017, 08:48:36 AM
IIRC he still has that column every now and again.

It's in WD every month although I don't know if he actually has anything to do with it. It's mostly conversions in his style done by a group of modellers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 30, 2017, 12:01:11 PM
He does and he contributes but is happy to show off the work of his fans.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 30, 2017, 12:08:34 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but just thumbing through WD and surprised by a few details about Necromunda. Looks like the two starter gangs, bulkheads, barricades and bases are all available separately. That'll screw the bits sellers on Ebay!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 30, 2017, 12:21:21 PM
The new painting handle is only £5.
Thats less than what I paid for my current one!

They're also bringing back the water pot with the brush holding rim.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 30, 2017, 12:45:38 PM
The new scenery bundles look to be pretty good value too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on October 30, 2017, 01:05:06 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 30, 2017, 12:21:21 PM
The new painting handle is only £5.

Mine was free with a bottle of wine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on October 30, 2017, 01:08:21 PM
Quote from: Nord on October 30, 2017, 01:05:06 PM
Mine was free with a bottle of wine.

That is still my prefered method as well. And the foil is brilliant for making banners.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 30, 2017, 01:10:32 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 30, 2017, 12:21:21 PM
The new painting handle is only £5.
Thats less than what I paid for my current one!

They're also bringing back the water pot with the brush holding rim.

 lol lol lol

This is an ironic statement, eh?

I really do hope so.

Quote from: Nord on October 30, 2017, 01:05:06 PM
Mine was free with a bottle of wine.

Quote from: Dr. Zombie on October 30, 2017, 01:08:21 PM
That is still my prefered method as well. And the foil is brilliant for making banners.

AND you get a FREE bottle of wine!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 30, 2017, 01:38:26 PM
I like my wine cork method, but I find it really heavy and awkward when I hold the whole bottle up to the light to get those close in details.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on October 30, 2017, 01:48:44 PM
Quote from: Mason on October 30, 2017, 01:10:32 PM

AND you get a FREE bottle of wine!


Usually I only manage to salvage the cork and the foil before the rest is claimed by Ms. Zombie.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 30, 2017, 02:07:45 PM
And with all the talk of John Blanche here there's a set of Dark Millennium playing cards featuring his artwork due out next month. From the examples in WD though I think I'll pass.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 30, 2017, 02:22:35 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on October 30, 2017, 02:07:45 PM
And with all the talk of John Blanche here there's a set of Dark Millennium playing cards featuring his artwork due out next month. From the examples in WD though I think I'll pass.

Cool. I accidentally started collecting playing cards a while ago so I'll be grabbing those.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on October 30, 2017, 03:11:44 PM
To summarise my feelings about the Gundabad Orcs pack from FW:

(https://i.imgur.com/oQ008Ed.png)

I still hate the fact that GW killed the LotR game before I could get into it. The miniatures are absolutely stunning but they're massively overpriced them now.

Any recommended alternatives, guys?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on October 30, 2017, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on October 30, 2017, 03:11:44 PM
To summarise my feelings about the Gundabad Orcs pack from FW:

(https://i.imgur.com/oQ008Ed.png)

I still hate the fact that GW killed the LotR game before I could get into it. The miniatures are absolutely stunning but they're massively overpriced them now.

Any recommended alternatives, guys?

The new Oathsworn minis from Northstar have a more traditional Tolkeiny  vibe. You can get the old Harlequin LotR  stuff (quite nice in a mid 90s way) from Scotia Grendel
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 30, 2017, 03:21:39 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on October 30, 2017, 03:11:44 PM
To summarise my feelings about the Gundabad Orcs pack from FW:

(https://i.imgur.com/oQ008Ed.png)

I still hate the fact that GW killed the LotR game before I could get into it. The miniatures are absolutely stunning but they're massively overpriced them now.

Any recommended alternatives, guys?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/28/save-money-on-your-middle-earth-army/

Probably sold out because they're doing this offer....

They're also releasing Battle companies as a separate rulebook in the next month!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 30, 2017, 03:21:58 PM
Nah guys there are actually quite a few people who prefer a more "pro" gripping piece for attaching their miniatures to. Spotted loads of them at SMC earlier this month. And the price of this GW one is a LOT cheaper than the one's most use, since they use goldsmithing/engraving vices.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on October 30, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on October 30, 2017, 03:15:56 PM
The new Oathsworn minis from Northstar have a more traditional Tolkeiny  vibe. You can get the old Harlequin LotR  stuff (quite nice in a mid 90s way) from Scotia Grendel

I really like the Oathmark dwarves, but I'm not too sure on the goblins. The heads are a bit oversized compared to their bodies but we'll see how they look once they're painted up.

The Scotia Grendel orcs suffer from the same "cartoonishness" that the Perry couple managed to dodge with the LotR miniatures.

Quote from: nic-e on October 30, 2017, 03:21:39 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/28/save-money-on-your-middle-earth-army/

Probably sold out because they're doing this offer....

They're also releasing Battle companies as a separate rulebook in the next month!

I had not spotted that, thanks! 12 for £40 is still extortionate pricing, though. Even for Games Workshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 30, 2017, 03:41:27 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on October 30, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
I had not spotted that, thanks! 12 for £40 is still extortionate pricing, though. Even for Games Workshop.

£3.33 for a fantasy figure too much?!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on October 30, 2017, 03:52:46 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on October 30, 2017, 03:41:27 PM
£3.33 for a fantasy figure too much?!

In the age of 40 plastic miniatures for £20? Damn straight.

Even from GW, it's a lot. You get 10 Primaris Reivers (32~mm base, almost 35mm height) for £35.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on October 30, 2017, 04:01:22 PM
Quote from: YPU on October 30, 2017, 03:21:58 PM
Nah guys there are actually quite a few people who prefer a more "pro" gripping piece for attaching their miniatures to. Spotted loads of them at SMC earlier this month. And the price of this GW one is a LOT cheaper than the one's most use, since they use goldsmithing/engraving vices.

I like them because I don't want to waste time attaching a plastic figure to a cork when i'drather paint it on the base or have blue tac fail me and have a half painted figure drop on the floor.
The one I got from Oshiro is great but you till need bluetac.   
This one from GW is actually an advance on some of the other ones I've seen and as i said before, Is probably the only one you're going to find in a highstreet hobby shop whilst also being cheaper than most others online.

(There was a good little laugh on DakkaDakka. The thing was leaked and everyone goes
 "hurr durr I dont wanna pay £30 for it , HEre's  one that you should buy which is cheaper ,it's £10."
"oh it's £5? What the hell....?"

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on October 30, 2017, 04:01:56 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on October 30, 2017, 03:52:46 PM
In the age of 40 plastic miniatures for £20? Damn straight.

Even from GW, it's a lot. You get 10 Primaris Reivers (32~mm base, almost 35mm height) for £35.

Don't look up that old thread about 'what's a figure worth?' then. You won't be happy what the manufacturers here have to say in it.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on October 30, 2017, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on October 30, 2017, 04:01:56 PM
Don't look up that old thread about 'what's a figure worth?' then. You won't be happy what the manufacturers here have to say in it.  ;)

Oh, trust me, I'm willing to pay a bit (quite a bit) more to a small company but someone who is mass manufacturing is a different matter altogether. :p
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 30, 2017, 08:11:14 PM
I guess those miniatures they mass produce are cheaper.. :)


I wanted that handle but was skeptical knowing that good model handle cost around 20 - 25 pounds..
For 5 I will get it fast. (You sure its not a typo for 25  ?:)

For plastic models glued to plastic bases it will be great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on October 31, 2017, 12:07:05 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on October 30, 2017, 03:26:58 PM
I really like the Oathmark dwarves, but I'm not too sure on the goblins. The heads are a bit oversized compared to their bodies but we'll see how they look once they're painted up.

The Scotia Grendel orcs suffer from the same "cartoonishness" that the Perry couple managed to dodge with the LotR miniatures.

Oversized heads are an authentically Tolkienish trait, though. The large heads of various orcs are mentioned in The Hobbit and LotR: the Great Goblin ("a huge head"), Ugluk (or one of his followers - "a great goblin head"), Grishnakh ("great head") and Azog ("a huge head bound in iron"). And there's also this line from the drafts in HoME (discarded, but written long after Orcs had become an established concept in Tolkien's mythos):

“Swiftly they stripped the orc, peeling off his coat of black scale-like mail, unbuckling his sword, and unslinging the small round shield at his back. The black iron cap was too large for Sam (for orcs have large heads for their size), but he slipped on the mail."

So, much as I admire the Perrys, their recent film-based LotR orcs are significantly less Middle Earth-appropriate than their 1980s Citadel orcs, which have the big heads and long arms hanging almost to the ground that Tolkien describes. I'd say the Oathmark goblins are much closer to the 80s Perry LotR orcs and all the more Tolkienish as a result.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 01, 2017, 01:44:05 AM
So at the moment, I work with very young kids to improve their reading (I'm on a track for a proper full-on teaching job in a few years, hopefully).

This is almost assuredly an unwise thing, but since wee ones are notorious disease vectors (they already got me - and everyone else at home - sick once so far and the school year's only seven weeks in), we're referring to them at home as nurglings, and my school work to therefore be in service to Papa Nurgle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 01, 2017, 09:13:18 AM
Every school.. every friggin one..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 01, 2017, 09:15:55 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 01, 2017, 01:44:05 AM
So at the moment, I work with very young kids to improve their reading (I'm on a track for a proper full-on teaching job in a few years, hopefully).

This is almost assuredly an unwise thing, but since wee ones are notorious disease vectors (they already got me - and everyone else at home - sick once so far and the school year's only seven weeks in), we're referring to them at home as nurglings, and my school work to therefore be in service to Papa Nurgle.
lol
Well I'm 10+ years into teaching, I must be a plaguebearer. I rarely get sick (touch wood) but probably spread the diseases to those around me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 01, 2017, 04:32:17 PM
I am told by a friend who's also been at it for a few years that you soon stop getting sick all the time. One supposes that teachers develop a ferociously protective immune system.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 01, 2017, 04:55:54 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 01, 2017, 04:32:17 PM
One supposes that teachers develop a ferociously protective immune system.

I think that's true. The parents, however, end up getting whatever the kids have swapped in class, whilst the kids' turbo-driven metabolism shields them from the worst effects.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on November 01, 2017, 05:03:27 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on October 30, 2017, 03:11:44 PM
To summarise my feelings about the Gundabad Orcs pack from FW:

(https://i.imgur.com/oQ008Ed.png)

I still hate the fact that GW killed the LotR game before I could get into it. The miniatures are absolutely stunning but they're massively overpriced them now.

Any recommended alternatives, guys?

The Lord of The Rings game was my first miniature wargame and is still my favorite game because it's easy yet not simple. Always buy my miniatures second hand ain't gonna pay retail prices for their plastic and metal miniatures. Ask around and check second hand sites.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on November 01, 2017, 06:52:57 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 01, 2017, 04:32:17 PM
I am told by a friend who's also been at it for a few years that you soon stop getting sick all the time.

In all my years of teaching, colleges in London and a private school in Hampshire, I never managed to go a single term without catching at least one cold and a bout of laryngitis (even in the spring/summer).

Good luck with the teaching, very few things are so worthwhile.

Back on topic though, my wallet is shaking at the thought of all the Necromunda goodies, and the new bases and scenery...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 03, 2017, 09:19:14 PM
For those who like their board games to take all day to play through...

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23032453_2061183670562335_5320862004956361205_n.jpg?oh=ee9bf390aa1fbf2b04aaa5de5f5943a3&oe=5AA69DB3)

Reprints of the FFG Revised 4th edition.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 03, 2017, 09:39:06 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 03, 2017, 09:19:14 PM
For those who like their board games to take all day to play through...

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/23032453_2061183670562335_5320862004956361205_n.jpg?oh=ee9bf390aa1fbf2b04aaa5de5f5943a3&oe=5AA69DB3)

Reprints of the FFG Revised 4th edition.  :D

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/talisman

If you look at the link they have all the expansions ready to go! That's one hell of a release, even if it is all already made.
Looks like some of the expansions that were really hard to get are coming back aswell which is nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 03, 2017, 10:14:28 PM
Sudden update!

(https://i.imgur.com/9ltwkBS.jpg)

Ahhh Yeahhhhh!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/03/news-codexes-heroes-blood-glorygw-homepage-post-3/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 03, 2017, 10:31:16 PM
Time for another round of gender politics discussion in miniatures gaming  ;)

So many new releases, even just within AoS recently that I can't keep up with. Passed on Blood Bowl, can't do 40K and Aos, and Necromunda might have to be ignored as well. Blight War, Firestorm and what is looking to be a crap ton of Shadespire are now joined by a very tempting scenery bundle and more Warhammer Quest cards. I need a better paying job or someone to put me out of my misery!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 03, 2017, 10:33:59 PM
Quote from: nic-e on November 03, 2017, 09:39:06 PM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/talisman

If you look at the link they have all the expansions ready to go! That's one hell of a release, even if it is all already made.
Looks like some of the expansions that were really hard to get are coming back aswell which is nice.

Well that's great news. I was just getting into talsiman when they pulled it from the shelves. I really wanted some of those bigger expansions. Looks like I can get them now!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 03, 2017, 10:40:43 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 03, 2017, 10:31:16 PM
Time for another round of gender politics discussion in miniatures gaming  ;)

So many new releases, even just within AoS recently that I can't keep up with. Passed on Blood Bowl, can't do 40K and Aos, and Necromunda might have to be ignored as well. Blight War, Firestorm and what is looking to be a crap ton of Shadespire are now joined by a very tempting scenery bundle and more Warhammer Quest cards. I need a better paying job or someone to put me out of my misery!  lol

The current consensus on the forums and /TG/ is "Awesome!"
I'm sure someone will kickstart the generic anti female character memes soon enough and we can look forward to some delightful insights into the minds of timmy the eternal sperglord, But for now all is well in the realms.

Also I just really like this mini.The paint it a little thick (Or should that be THICC?), but as with all GW releases the studip aintjob is normally hiding a very cool figure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on November 03, 2017, 10:53:18 PM
I've been toying with the idea of sculpting a female Darkoath like that for a while....guess I won't bother now!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 03, 2017, 10:56:09 PM
Quote from: nic-e on November 03, 2017, 10:40:43 PM
The current consensus on the forums and /TG/ is "Awesome!"
I'm sure someone will kickstart the generic anti female character memes soon enough and we can look forward to some delightful insights into the minds of timmy the eternal sperglord, But for now all is well in the realms.

Also I just really like this mini.The paint it a little thick (Or should that be THICC?), but as with all GW releases the studip aintjob is normally hiding a very cool figure.


There'll be the noisy 'not another female character' crowd and the 'I want a female equivalent of every GW model' crowd and somewhere in the middle there'll be the vast majority of people who just think 'cool model'.  :D

I'm wondering if this figure is part of some small thing or a bigger set or game box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 03, 2017, 11:03:58 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 03, 2017, 10:56:09 PM
There'll be the noisy 'not another female character' crowd and the 'I want a female equivalent of every GW model' crowd and somewhere in the middle there'll be the vast majority of people who just think 'cool model'.  :D

I'm wondering if this figure is part of some small thing or a bigger set or game box.

I think it's one of the special characters they mentioned a while ago as coming for each alliance next year. They showed the death one a while ago , And with the teaser of a new ,shadowy AOS logo, I'm wondering if we might be getting a new starter set...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 03, 2017, 11:14:50 PM
If they are changing the logo I am guessing something akin to Blightwar
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on November 03, 2017, 11:31:19 PM
That chaos female is just brilliant
I don't like the latest aos khorne stuff at all, it's all bloodskull mcskullstab but she's great
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 04, 2017, 12:04:22 AM
Don't care for the lady (a bit...stereotypical I guess), but I dislike the Darkoath Chieftain dude as well.  Just rather uninspired/boring miniatures.  Sounds like there is story movement in AoS, or a new army inbound etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 04, 2017, 12:21:18 AM
I always hoped Cathay would be a part of the Warhammer armies. I guess a new army inbound being Cathay would be a bit of a stretch  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 04, 2017, 12:30:00 AM
Quote from: Elbows on November 04, 2017, 12:04:22 AM
Don't care for the lady (a bit...stereotypical I guess), but I dislike the Darkoath Chieftain dude as well.  Just rather uninspired/boring miniatures.  Sounds like there is story movement in AoS, or a new army inbound etc.

That Drakoath guy is one of more popular base miniature in Inquisimunda crowd.

I agree that he is quite uninspiring... but I saw people do wonders with him..
Go figure..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on November 04, 2017, 12:33:34 AM
I'm in the middle, it makes sense as chaos is very equal opportunities lol I dont think we need female equivalents of everything(why not do something entirely new?) not sure it would work for things like dark elves as all wytches are female.

I'm with elbows in that neither does anything for me personally, the darkoath chieftain is too big/detailed while the warqueen looks a bit like she was ripped from the latest marvel film, both I think with the right paintjob/conversions could look great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 04, 2017, 11:01:06 AM
Quote from: nic-e on November 03, 2017, 11:03:58 PM
I'm wondering if we might be getting a new starter set...

The logo looks a bit Nurgley with that tarnished finish but a Nurgle themed starter right after Blight War? Unless there's going to be a bunch of new Nurgle models released. I know people are clamoring for pestigors and I've wondered whether we'll see some kind of Nurgle warrior types beyond just Blight Kings. Maybe fantasy versions of the Pox Walkers from 40K? Plus a few things do need updating. Beast of Nurgle is in dire need of a new sculpt as every version since the original 80's one has been utter crap. Great unclean one also is currently no match for the new big demon sculpts and things like Epididididididi-ma-jig are a bit shite by modern standards. January release plus battletome???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 04, 2017, 07:29:20 PM
Quote from: boneio on November 03, 2017, 11:31:19 PM
That chaos female is just brilliant
I don't like the latest aos khorne stuff at all, it's all bloodskull mcskullstab but she's great

I'm with this fella.

Also, I'm sorry GW, but the "Warhammer Hero" image in the article is just too hilarious.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on November 05, 2017, 01:37:55 AM
I have to partially agree with Fram in that although I dislike the mini its a nice change from bloodskull of the skull bloods, wielder of the skull-reaping bloodsword, scourge of the skull reef upon the blood shore of the red ocean...of skulls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 05, 2017, 11:23:35 AM
They released a set of skulls recently.. for all you DIY skullgluerry :)

Maybe they are temporary out of skulls ? :O

[Edit]
Some genius in FB group I follow made most GW thing with the new Skull set  lol lol lol
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yuUw8PcFUyuL0I91TL0sisUO8AZZC4pAdjkqUhLCW0jVqPNRhIYE42n7dC4Tc6KBn7qcdbQAsEyWGurMinqgqHOvbnhZXqwa8qeaoecDonPYGVqlBxZkOrfUtFvPbCdkBWHGcbwXlucpm2yS536fPWIBywFb5OnE7YPhDGjAUyyr48nhmAhcXrF9OaxUH_47CunzKbtChtbcIvuW5RcOj-J-9CAm2XXMWfZ7lmYIIIBjCFdQmRWUwlHkHvFPUjTDeJh2BW-sOUoUuXk2IIi8A5UdVilSyQI-vNQXoALK1TUrZKUx6nlAvhL3exMOjvIOeqS5zjp3B0nIuwDiPM2TNwblTbBQSoYcuWpKKKjOx0pg3jBQkbZkbgoWIbxz_XdOS5SOCTDj5OXBcywkT-aLhtuOni4ywjG47bvwCpnVS-v_B2ltx_iKvBAqgsuY-0XRqigjbxeIPEh2-2RVuMV157o8wVIRsnDAZjGSvEGXYpB-eUW5dAyxyd_zg3W2SlgViqyH9fNUvb6sazmw4lOba2IqJV0K3sulAGwMTsrgeX61j8RVRJfI039EztBDcEbaAxXPCl9wdgUzXs5e_i6zkOnXlh5O1C2xC8AM1kTYoA=w675-h900-no)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on November 05, 2017, 12:02:16 PM
Skull-ception...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on November 05, 2017, 04:00:13 PM
Needs more skulls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 06, 2017, 12:37:56 AM
Seems unnatural, better call an investigator... perhaps Mouldering Skully?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 06, 2017, 12:41:11 AM
A nice video from the designers of Necromunda. They breakdown why they have taken certain decisions such as using a 2d board to keep buy in costs low and not overwhelm new gamers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=rDdeAeLMwEs
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 06, 2017, 06:49:23 PM
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/nobody-getting-harassed-in-games-workshop-20171106138625

“A nice man with an asymmetrical beard asked me if I was ‘a hobbyist’, although I didn’t initially realise he was talking to me because he was looking at the floor."

It's true but they shouldn't say it  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 06, 2017, 08:09:59 PM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 07, 2017, 08:47:48 PM
New Codex!

(https://i.imgur.com/GVNoCkW.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 08, 2017, 02:09:30 AM
Here's hoping the Darkoath Warqueen heralds the release of updated Marauders...

Not so much the age, but the quality of the plastic foot Marauders looked subpar, compared with the then other contemporary plastics. I'd go with the Avatars of War stuff, but they're superglue only and in that case, I might as well go with metal or resin.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 08, 2017, 10:53:18 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on November 08, 2017, 02:09:30 AM
Here's hoping the Darkoath Warqueen heralds the release of updated Marauders...

Not so much the age, but the quality of the plastic foot Marauders looked subpar, compared with the then other contemporary plastics. I'd go with the Avatars of War stuff, but they're superglue only and in that case, I might as well go with metal or resin.

Yeah, they're awful models in comparison to everything else in the Slaves to Darkness range. Likewise those bloody horrendous zombies that everyone seemed to love so much are in dire need of being updated. Both sets are very 90's even if they are from a later date.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on November 08, 2017, 04:12:26 PM
I agree about the zombies! Bloody awful, they need to do new ones
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 08, 2017, 04:21:36 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on November 08, 2017, 04:12:26 PM
I agree about the zombies! Bloody awful, they need to do new ones

Especially given how nice the rest of the undead stuff is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on November 08, 2017, 05:03:00 PM
Yeah especially with the new shade spire skellies!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 08, 2017, 05:55:01 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 08, 2017, 10:53:18 AM
Yeah, they're awful models in comparison to everything else in the Slaves to Darkness range. Likewise those bloody horrendous zombies that everyone seemed to love so much are in dire need of being updated. Both sets are very 90's even if they are from a later date.

The zombies look even worse when you compare them to the zombies from the corpse cart which are really amazing! If GW used them as a template for a box of ten monopose zombies then they'd sell like hot plague covered cakes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on November 08, 2017, 06:41:31 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on November 08, 2017, 05:03:00 PM
Yeah especially with the new shade spire skellies!
Very much especially the Shadespire skeletons.
I didn't get Shadespire but bought the Ironjawz (they seem to be a fun paintjob) and the skeletons, and although the green guys are good, the skeletons are superb, the best palstics from GW I've ever seen.
They're snap-together, and the poses mean they are barely convertible, but they are a lovely lot. The scythe fellow is splendid, as is a chap with a conical helm. The proportions are excellent, no huge muscles here (well they are skeletons... ;D), but they stick out from all other GW stuff. They are characterful, and the detail is splendid without being too busy and overwhelming. One of the swords has delicate corrosion marks and a tiny hole right through in one point, and they got it just right.
I'm gushing, I know. But these deserve being gushed over.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 08, 2017, 06:50:25 PM
Funny little video about the new water pot.

I think GW are deliberately giving us meme worthy images.
(https://i.imgur.com/6U4NXaf.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on November 08, 2017, 08:31:37 PM
Quote from: nic-e on November 08, 2017, 06:50:25 PM
Funny little video about the new water pot.

I think GW are deliberately giving us meme worthy images.
(https://i.imgur.com/6U4NXaf.png)

Please report to your nearest commissar ASAP.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on November 08, 2017, 09:06:05 PM
Luke's APS never fails to disappoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgzCb7QS6JA
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 08, 2017, 11:10:03 PM
GW shops started publishing shaky unboxing videos of Necromunda on their FB pages.
So games will be on display 11th to taunt us til 24 :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LmRKZwMNmU

Nothing new really but I watched it twice nevertheless  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 10, 2017, 10:14:33 PM
Duble posting really.
I managed to ambush early box of Necro and made ultimate visual proof about the scale.

Best match I found and the difference is clearly visible

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4e1PnFue6Z0/WgYkIPgeo3I/AAAAAAAAGMA/baH_6cjcbIE9PWLf0FjZH8MSR0gC9_WAwCKgBGAs/s1600/23334019_10155871073693236_2663163917518617451_o.jpg)

And the Bulkhead
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AlXFUthTr-Q/WgYjinzxHlI/AAAAAAAAGL0/-1W23oap0KYMKB1Rqj9v2NiUzT2x60k5QCKgBGAs/s1600/23456479_10155870705958236_3835686841331930582_o.jpg)


I will update the blogpost I made with extra photo when they will become available
http://waristheh-word.blogspot.com/2017/11/new-necromunda-scale-answers.html


And as extra note - those models are seriously gorgeous, and terrain elements are great.
My favorite is little shrine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 10, 2017, 10:49:51 PM
So smaller doors with bigger minis  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 10, 2017, 11:22:11 PM
All you know is just another brick in the shrinking wall..  lol

I will check how walls work with Sector mechanicus and City ruin walls next time when I will have the chance
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on November 11, 2017, 10:33:38 AM
So, couldn't resist. Ordered from Dark Sphere: Necromunda Underhive, Gang War, nice shiney dice sets and some additional 25mm bases (for Shadow War GSC - finally I can base them).

Now just the long wait (probably have to wrap them up for Christmas too).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 11, 2017, 01:28:50 PM
Quote from: AfricanAl on November 11, 2017, 10:33:38 AM
(probably have to wrap them up for Christmas too).

That will be plain self inflicted pain man..
 :o o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on November 11, 2017, 02:29:43 PM
Quote from: AWu on November 11, 2017, 01:28:50 PM
That will be plain self inflicted pain man..

Well, I'll obviously have to open the boxes when they arrive, just to check that everything is in there ...  ;-)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 11, 2017, 06:53:46 PM
Hahaha, I'm going to wrap mine now and sneak it under the tree. On Christmas morn I will shred the paper, squeal in delight and hug the box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 11, 2017, 10:50:28 PM
To all those people putting there Necromunda boxed sets under the tree, don't forget to push the kids out of the way in your rush to get to it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 12, 2017, 06:49:15 PM
Scale creep is getting ridiculous!

(https://i.imgur.com/o6hLMGo.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 13, 2017, 12:53:16 PM
For Necromunda!

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/FWPreview-Nov13-BountyHunter1te-500x466.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 13, 2017, 01:03:43 PM
Not fan of the pose (its blocking some of the details) and I hate the gun, but I love the miniature.. And will get at least one for sure!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 13, 2017, 01:14:57 PM
It's a nice figure. Though it's another one of those GW figures that I always think would look better if its other foot was on the pipe/rock/dead marine. C'mon, the Greeks worked this shit out thousands of years ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 13, 2017, 01:15:52 PM
More info: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/13/coming-soon-beastman-underhive/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/13/coming-soon-beastman-underhive/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 13, 2017, 02:44:38 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 13, 2017, 01:14:57 PM
It's a nice figure. Though it's another one of those GW figures that I always think would look better if its other foot was on the pipe/rock/dead marine. C'mon, the Greeks worked this shit out thousands of years ago.

Well, at least they remembered that you simply HAVE to have a skull or two on the subject somewhere....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 13, 2017, 03:07:25 PM
I just noticed he has a cigar and now I really want it. Also waiting for Peta to see this and try to figure out if this is a step in the right direction or not....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 13, 2017, 04:02:38 PM
Looks good, but without reading the article I assume it's resin/Forgeworld and thus I'm out.  Shame really.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 13, 2017, 06:36:24 PM
Painted
(https://20889-presscdn-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/40k-open-days-template-for-product-promo-images-bounty-hunter-700x700.jpg)

Yes
FW and resin.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 13, 2017, 06:51:41 PM
If nothing else I like the fact that beastmen sub-humans are still a thing in 40k
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 13, 2017, 06:55:44 PM
Quote from: YPU on November 13, 2017, 06:51:41 PM
If nothing else I like the fact that beastmen sub-humans are still a thing in 40k

I agree with you there.
 :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 13, 2017, 06:58:28 PM
All bulkhead types around
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c8tFHYrjwAM/WgnnukEltyI/AAAAAAAAGM8/siiEGkazbmYiMJXm_A5hTnBvOFtsQvxXQCKgBGAs/s1600/23511031_10155878528968236_199525440726845159_o.jpg)

And two of the new ones stacked close to Sector mechanicus .
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pXRfTaXUO68/Wgnn7kX2NlI/AAAAAAAAGNQ/865oA3ntMWgSTwzXGuNMEPspjlWzA1GFgCKgBGAs/s1600/23509061_10155878534863236_8060432722985083968_o.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 13, 2017, 07:18:02 PM
It looks really nice painted.
Plus the forgeworld team tend to paint things a little nicer than the GW team in my opinion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 13, 2017, 07:45:19 PM
Those pictures of the new bulkheads are very useful, thank you.
 :)

I think I shall see how much they are going for when the bits sellers start on ebay, as I can see a use for them.
 8)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 13, 2017, 08:41:47 PM
GW is selling this set (its 2 copies of a bulkhead frame you get with the starter box
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120599002_BulkheadHatches00.jpg)
Around 20 pounds
Dor have two options of opening mechanism - knob pictured here and large bar like one. Really cool.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-PL/Necromunda-Bulkhead-Hatches-2017

And at similar price again 2 sprues of scatter terrain you get in the starter
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120599001_NecromundaBarricades00.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 14, 2017, 09:00:41 AM
GW putting up most of the box contents separately from the get go is a nice fuck you to the Ebay bits sellers. Making the gangs available is just common sense but the terrain as well really surprised me when I saw it in WD.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 14, 2017, 10:00:59 AM
That has surprised me too!
 :o

Thanks for the tip-off, AWu.
That is great news as I have no interest in the figures as they are just too big, but the scenery on the other hand....
I shall be getting some of them.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 14, 2017, 11:27:31 AM
I picked up the dark millenum playing cards the other day to go with my copy of voodoo forest.
They're very nice, lovely art work, plenty of characters to inspire conversions.
(This isn't helping with my accidental playing card collection. I have 12 decks that i never use that i have picked up purely because they were pretty.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 15, 2017, 12:59:19 PM
I  managed to snag some measurements. Might be of interest to some.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V4Mw65r0yUc/Wgt7r0GFC3I/AAAAAAAAGOU/XSELdHnga24X48UsHE4Tx6frkg_LovAOgCKgBGAs/s400/20171113_171230.jpg)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RjIPJA8FTso/Wgt7r3NsePI/AAAAAAAAGOU/_33J5lAXk5kk9xqmtfdz8mCtwi5F5WmggCKgBGAs/s400/20171113_171222.jpg)


I am going to make me some walls..
BTW: Walls not only will add visually to the game but measuring anything beyond 12 inches and deciding if there is open loss or cover or no-loss is quite difficulty without them.

The 3d doors and cover loos strange withoud proper walls in the palce of walls.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dhA0CSHYa9pSCUZ4nna5berXw7mEE7D0mD2jCtbaCRsLD5EMdz83BQ6VnpWasQy--rh31Tn0U8regENaw4RjqsEMuoiUH_SnFLRrANW80b-hTsrKJA8ziYX40csivM9XXlobWsYwCV0pe0jB0zHuxXkerJS1j8Vx7dPu8mxeuJJhewhU0K4FbbNJoo57X9K6zFJvGRD59pNo4l3lNIxoK0rOaC0R2AIghPKzN7jrxxX-ojSAIwZyw7fkpt0iGvIzg7AySfU2pau_1fdvt7LnflpEHzhsDI3XZSrle5u1P4TWqXA_NvGS_bcNDd-cTv5jwsraI3jY7Q_Pw3VEgwEu7M5NxuovZpcs54PryH19JRGo0bTxjuI2sqQMDoK-LV_r6KMdz8kV4Wvi2VMgKH00p6iRmTJEfsSA5x00b0AlKKLOvwmtpadLPXWwqCFJjjhUZgIsFxW-AG1-CFYdeW_NwQrNvVxQrhHOoW4zIEKailcwlYS1GnWWRTUHBiNmZV0GdiKyV-D8cIsqJtaiHWDQatdCDABsdEuU3KJndVqwydCkbfNCRlbmuGYsUf94oEUjoKzFfK6UxofHNZSMkv15tAbbKEhEXXlIhLztxEIlGg=w1560-h878-no)

We tried short game yesterday.
Rules are IMHO step in the good way but there are some annoyances (ex: sustained fire/ jam die is counterintuitive. It jams on one side only and show number of hits that are non applicable for most of the weapons. It would be cool and easier to grasp  to have one empty die with  just on one side jam result.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on November 15, 2017, 02:11:06 PM
If anyone want to get his hands on one of the best tanks never produced by GW, there's a KS doing the rounds:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/604055223/mortian-battle-tank

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a1/eb/da/a1ebdaecd7f73e80d164c0ef09849b3e--battle-tank-tanks.jpg)

I had one some years ago. Full resin kit, bigger than a standard Leman Russ, smaller than a Baneblade, ideal for IG players who want something different.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Agis on November 15, 2017, 04:11:59 PM
Wait, the Macharius is still available from Forge World, or?
(https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99590105319_MachariusWithVanquisherCannons01.jpg)
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Macharius-Vanquisher
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on November 15, 2017, 06:28:05 PM
Quote from: Agis on November 15, 2017, 04:11:59 PM
Wait, the Macharius is still available from Forge World, or?
(https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99590105319_MachariusWithVanquisherCannons01.jpg)
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Macharius-Vanquisher

And the Mortian is a smaller Macharius  :D They have a German review here:

http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/2009/review-mortian-battle-tank/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 15, 2017, 08:27:30 PM
Regardless, it's obviously a "not" Macharius tank.  Incredibly obvious, lol.  Good for them if they can shift them without being sued.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on November 15, 2017, 10:23:48 PM
Judging by what I have seen of the new Necromunda GW have realised that there aren't a great many manicured lawns in the hive of hives.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on November 16, 2017, 12:22:43 PM
Any comparisons shots of the new 'Munda minis with older 'Munda ones and maybe with Primaris marines out there yet?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 16, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on November 15, 2017, 10:23:48 PM
Judging by what I have seen of the new Necromunda GW have realised that there aren't a great many manicured lawns in the hive of hives.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 16, 2017, 03:25:26 PM
Funnily enough, when they release Arbites it would be a superb scenario.  A techno-Medici style house being raided by an angry gang (who somehow penetrated the upper strata of the Hive).  A special scenario on a very pristine "Upper crust" Imperium board would be very cool.  Arbites being called in (perhaps overly ornate Arbites because they're receiving payoffs...).

There.  You can have your manicured lawns. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 16, 2017, 10:10:22 PM
Quote from: pocoloco on November 16, 2017, 12:22:43 PM
Any comparisons shots of the new 'Munda minis with older 'Munda ones and maybe with Primaris marines out there yet?

I put them into this very thread
but if you are to lazy to look for them
http://waristheh-word.blogspot.com/2017/11/new-necromunda-scale-answers.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 16, 2017, 11:01:35 PM
Andy Chambers is doing an Ask Me Anything on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/7decnl/im_andy_chambers_ask_me_anything/

Quote
How were you able to successfully pull off the quasi-mullet and chops (http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/2/7/18830-Andy%20Chambers,%20Copyright%20Games%20Workshop,%20Retro%20Review,%20White%20Dwarf.jpg)? Many have tried, but you somehow succeeded.

Ahahahahaha oh my lord
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 17, 2017, 09:41:51 PM
Rules for Forge world Beatman Bounty Hunter
(https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99550599002_GorHalfHornBountyHunter01.jpg)
This guy again

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/Gor-Half-horn-download-combined.pdf


Looks fun but he is expensive. We know nothing about cost of hiring him in campaign yet :(

Cool that rules are free, but I hoped we will get his card in the box with him!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on November 18, 2017, 12:01:31 AM
Quote from: AWu on November 16, 2017, 10:10:22 PM
I put them into this very thread
but if you are to lazy to look for them
http://waristheh-word.blogspot.com/2017/11/new-necromunda-scale-answers.html

Yep, was too lazy so many thanks for the link :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on November 18, 2017, 06:34:14 AM
I really am trying to like that beastman model, the old one was one of my favourites, but the plasma pistol looks a bit clunky and not like a plasma pistol and, I hate to say it.....he seems to have ca-ankles! :?

The old one was kinda delicate looking, but this one....it seems they got to the legs and got bored! “Oh, I’ll just stick on some armour plates to save me doing any detail!”

It would be good if they upped their game with this idea. What about a beastman style gang? An armoured Centaur, a heavy weapon Minotaur or just different animal types. What about a lion commander/gang leader model?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2017, 09:38:42 AM
Uh, to be honest the gun on the Bounty hunter Beastman reminds me more of a hairdryer..

Maybe its a plasma hairdryer with high setting for melting things, low for hair. Drying.

He is a Beastman.. so maybe he needs it to be Multi-function...

Just has to remember to be careful with his settings selection.

Dial on the side :

- Dry
- Fluff dry
- Ranged plasma burst

?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 18, 2017, 11:44:28 AM
I find their latest offerings to busy or cluttered looking?
And to big awkward looking remind me of the Wild West exodus stuff which I don't like for same reasons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on November 18, 2017, 11:56:30 AM
I like the mini and the plasma pistol is a riff on the old one.

I overall like the mini but Jesus wept its expensive and its cost to hire for games is overkill.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 18, 2017, 01:20:02 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2017, 09:38:42 AM
Uh, to be honest the gun on the Bounty hunter Beastman reminds me more of a hairdryer..

Maybe its a plasma hairdryer with high setting for melting things, low for hair. Drying.

He is a Beastman.. so maybe he needs it to be Multi-function...

Just has to remember to be careful with his settings selection.

Dial on the side :

- Dry
- Fluff dry
- Ranged plasma burst

?

You think there is any other reason Escher would hair* this guy ? :>


*I will take my coat...  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2017, 04:45:43 PM
Quote from: AWu on November 18, 2017, 01:20:02 PM
You think there is any other reason Escher would hair* this guy ? :>


*I will take my coat...  o_o

That won't be necessary, really,  let me get it for you  ;D

Haircare aside, it is a bit busy, and ok its nice but, its not quite.. something, it does not have it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 18, 2017, 04:51:53 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 18, 2017, 04:45:43 PM
Haircare aside, it is a bit busy, and ok its nice but, its not quite.. something, it does not have it.

I think a less frantic paintjob would calm things down a lot, less extreme highlights and fewer scritches & scratches on every surface. I understand why they do it - for showing extra detail in close-up photography - but I reckon a subtler bit of colouring-in would make a big difference.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 18, 2017, 05:30:46 PM
Quote from: AWu on November 17, 2017, 09:41:51 PM
Cool that rules are free, but I hoped we will get his card in the box with him!

Quote from: FW
...a Fighter Card is included

You do!  :)


As far as pricing goes he is a bit pricey but not necessarily that much more expensive than some resin casts from other manufacturers. Hasslefree's resin masters are around 10/12 quid not including VAT for example (yes I know they're master castings and FW are shit and HF are great and GW are the Evil Empire  ;) ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 18, 2017, 05:35:19 PM
Thats cool then. I would be pissed off after I will pay 18 pounds for him (and lets be realistically here - I will pay 18 pounds for this guy.. probably twice :( )


I like the model a lot but dont like the gun. There is slight chance I will buy some cheap Harlequin with plasma pistol of the RT era bunch and transplant...
To make him more like his original RT self.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 18, 2017, 06:37:48 PM
Any Oldhammerers recognise the pistol from some old Adventurer or whatnot? It has a distinct whiff of Bob Naismith's 'stick random shapes together' weapon design process.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Citizen Sade on November 18, 2017, 07:40:23 PM
Nope, looks like one of those cheap, rechargeable MiniVacs to me. Maybe he’s the cleanup crew?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 18, 2017, 07:52:22 PM
But guys, he's smoking a cigar! That makes up for everything else!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 18, 2017, 08:01:11 PM
Everything got them this time around. There are two cigar smoking Goliath head in each N set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 18, 2017, 09:35:04 PM
I really like the Beastman, he'll be added to my Renegade Guard force even if I don't end up using him for Necromunda as intended.

At £18 though it does sting abit but it'll make a nice treat to myself as I'm such a good boy hehe
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on November 19, 2017, 03:09:44 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 18, 2017, 06:37:48 PM
Any Oldhammerers recognise the pistol from some old Adventurer or whatnot? It has a distinct whiff of Bob Naismith's 'stick random shapes together' weapon design process.

It's based on the plasma pistol from the old beastman mini, http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Beastmen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 19, 2017, 05:51:13 AM
Quote from: Citizen Sade on November 18, 2017, 07:40:23 PM
Nope, looks like one of those cheap, rechargeable MiniVacs to me. Maybe he’s the cleanup crew?

He's here to take out the trash!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 19, 2017, 09:52:00 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on November 19, 2017, 03:09:44 AM
It's based on the plasma pistol from the old beastman mini, http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Beastmen

Well if it is, they fucked it up because that looks like a plasma pistol and this doesn’t.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on November 19, 2017, 10:01:12 AM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 19, 2017, 09:52:00 AM
Well if it is, they fucked it up because that looks like a plasma pistol and this doesn’t.
It's wearing a cunning disguise to help the bounty hunter sneak up on people without them realising who he is?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on November 19, 2017, 04:33:35 PM
I think they tried to play of the new horus heresy style plasma pistol as well

http://www.bitzbox.co.uk/images/horus_heresy_mkiv_tactical_plasma_pistol_large.JPG
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 19, 2017, 04:48:47 PM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on November 19, 2017, 10:01:12 AM
It's wearing a cunning disguise to help the bounty hunter sneak up on people without them realising who he is?

Hello my name is mister... Nroh Flah Rog... Yes that'll do.. And i come from..Some place faraway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on November 19, 2017, 07:08:12 PM
I preordered the Necromunda box from Wayland. Always wanted a bunch of Eschers. I’m just a bit worried about the models being very ‘busy’, but we’ll see when I try and paint them!

The beastman is outrageous at £18... I’ll convert one  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on November 19, 2017, 08:28:38 PM
From Necromunda product descriptions:

"A major part of Necromunda: Underhive is the included tactics cards. ... Gang Tactics, which are 20 cards usable by any House"

"Escher Gang Cards
- 8 Escher Tactics cards, which are for the exclusive use of the Escher gang;
- 12 Gang Tactics cards, which can be used by any gang in Necromunda: Underhive;"

"Goliath Gang Cards
- 8 Goliath Tactics cards, which are for the exclusive use of the Goliath gang;
- 12 Gang Tactics cards, which can be used by any gang in Necromunda: Underhive;"

From Warhammer Underworlds: Shadespire product descriptions:

"60 unique cards for use in games of Warhammer Underworlds: Shadespire, broken down as follows:
- 11 universal objectives, for use with any Warhammer Underworlds warband;
- 10 universal upgrades, for use with any Warhammer Underworlds warband;
- 10 universal ploys, for use with any Warhammer Underworlds warband. "

" 60 unique cards for use in games of Warhammer Underworlds: Shadespire, broken down as follows:
- 11 universal objectives, for use with any Warhammer Underworlds warband;
- 10 universal upgrades, for use with any Warhammer Underworlds warband;
- 10 universal ploys, for use with any Warhammer Underworlds warband. "

Anyone else think this model of distributing rules is terrible?  It's like trying to bolt on the X-Wing business model onto board games.  Want all the rules you might use for your Orruks or Escher?  Guess you need to get the Undead or Goliath as well...

This totally killed the local interest for both these games.  Then the full rules for necromunda aren't even in the game and you have to buy a separate book.  This is just so strange compared to how contained and complete all the 40k releases have been.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 19, 2017, 08:30:23 PM
I don't really have a problem with it. GW have to make money for these games to stay in production, The cards and extras are optional add ons for those who want to expand the game, And keeping them seperate keeps the boxed games cheaper for those who just want a simple gaming experience.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: chamberlain on November 19, 2017, 08:40:22 PM
Probably the worst result will be if two people have a mismatch in what they want out of it.  Something tells me that if you buy the core game and play against someone who bought the core game and the expansions to get the extra tactics cards they are going to be playing at a totally different power level than you.  Like the difference in power level between X-Wing lists where one person just buys what ships are cool and uses the cards they come with and another person has access to every upgrade card ever produced.

Also, GW seems to have no problem making money on 40k and AoS without putting rules usable by Tyranids in a box of Space Marines.

Hey, maybe this is the future for the commercial side of wargaming.  The Fantasy Flight upgrade card model can be forced into pretty much every product right?  Maybe we will start seeing "Stratagem" cards for any 40k army bundled in specific models.  "This Blood Angels Honour Guard box comes with 10 Stratagem cards, 6 of which can be used by any army!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 19, 2017, 08:42:14 PM
With a bit of luck the FULL rules will become available online at some point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 20, 2017, 01:27:51 PM
Necromunda tactics cards are not on the same page that Shadenspire decks..
They can be easily emulated without having physical card.

In Shadenspire you draw and manipulate actual thing and the game is meant to be played competitively in tournament.
So X-wing styled cashgrab is unavoidable practice, but it will be managable untill they start to put one super good card as a bonus for big box like Blightwar costing 100 pounds and being unplayable in Shdowspire at all -thats what pisses me in X wing).

But In Munda they are just xtra gimmick non essential to game play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 23, 2017, 12:03:25 PM
Genestealer Cult in 3rd edition Space Hulk! Worth getting White Dwarf for I reckon.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/23/revealed-new-warhammer-holiday-season/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/23/revealed-new-warhammer-holiday-season/)

Tempted by those Easy Build Aggressors to make some non-wonky Terminators too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on November 23, 2017, 01:02:36 PM
And Sly Marbo is back!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on November 23, 2017, 01:07:24 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on November 23, 2017, 01:02:36 PM
And Sly Marbo is back!  ;D

Really like the new mini as Well!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on November 23, 2017, 01:10:08 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on November 23, 2017, 01:07:24 PM
Really like the new mini as Well!

Yeah, if they could do the Catachans in this style  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 23, 2017, 01:16:33 PM
I thought he was dead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on November 23, 2017, 01:34:06 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 23, 2017, 01:16:33 PM
I thought he was dead.

Sly Marbo can't be killed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 23, 2017, 03:42:02 PM
I made this earlier...

(https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2017/11/23/916984_sm-.png) (https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/916984-.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on November 23, 2017, 03:54:52 PM
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on November 23, 2017, 04:08:31 PM
 lol

Makes one wish that head was available as a separate piece.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 23, 2017, 04:12:07 PM
Re: Sly Marbo -

1) The arm muscles are so grotesquely over-developed, he can literally no longer straighten his arms fully!

2) Spot the 'Audrey II' on the base.

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/40kNov23-Marbo1hde.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on November 23, 2017, 04:16:40 PM
Nice to see Cigars are still a big thing in the 41st Millennium.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 23, 2017, 04:31:33 PM
Yeah, not understanding the Little Shop of Horrors addition there...but whatever.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 23, 2017, 05:41:28 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on November 23, 2017, 04:16:40 PM
Nice to see Cigars are still a big thing in the 41st Millennium.

Hehehe, I was thinking the same. I need to make some cigar crate terrain now  lol

Quote from: Elbows on November 23, 2017, 04:31:33 PM
Yeah, not understanding the Little Shop of Horrors addition there...but whatever.

Just a little easter-egg death world plant. The very name 'Marbo' sort of puts the whole concept into joke land anyway.

Funny, I painted a Rogue Trader era mercenary today and his arms were about the same- an anatomical mess :)

Looks like I'll need the get the Dec. White Dwarf for genestealer rules in Sapce Hulk though :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 23, 2017, 06:38:45 PM
Quote from: Elbows on November 23, 2017, 03:42:02 PM
I made this earlier...

(https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2017/11/23/916984_sm-.png) (https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/916984-.html)

Now we just need a froggy head.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 23, 2017, 06:51:54 PM
*clears throat*
OHMYGODSLYMARBO!NEWCATACHANSCULPT!HOOKITINTOMYVEINS!!

Ahem...
Anyway.

The anatomy is ridiculous ,but he's a CATACHAN! they're meant to be ridiculous.The old plastic were horendous but I bloody love them.This guy just oozez character. I can almost hear him growling "hey bub,eat this" before punching a commissar in the face.

An easy build dreadnought is nice.I liek the dreadnought model but don't want to spend £40 on something I mostly want to convert, so this is a nice option.
The Angel primaris are nice, will be good bases to build some cool characters from.

GW are really on a roll in my eyes lately and I get a nice big paycheck soon,this could be worrisome.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on November 23, 2017, 08:07:38 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 23, 2017, 04:12:07 PM
2) Spot the 'Audrey II' on the base

That’s the thing that turned this from a “maybe buy” to a “must buy” for me!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 23, 2017, 08:52:18 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on November 23, 2017, 04:16:40 PM
Nice to see Cigars are still a big thing in the 41st Millennium.

What with the rise of vaping, perhaps Sam Slade's robot 'Stogie' isn't so ridiculous after all!

(https://i1.wp.com/img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bobmitchell/blog%20pics/bonus%20pin-up/2000ad%202140030_zpsfrcswnz0.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 24, 2017, 01:50:55 PM
Becoming a big fan of all the easy build clip together stuff, the lower pricepoint is much closer to what I can pay/willing to pay for new toys, plus I'll end up converting them anyway so it doesn't matter too much if they all look alike in the same box.

Hell we all grew up chopping up lead and metal figures so single piece plastics ain't much harder.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on November 24, 2017, 03:46:00 PM
Necromunda Underhive arrived from Dark Sphere (Yeah!). Checked all the contents are there (have had three GW boxes this year with bits missing, so was being a bit paranoid). Now in pile to wrap up for Christmas to stop me going back and fiddling with all the goodies (Boo!). Dice, Gang War and extra bases due to arrive tomorrow (more Yeah!)

What is the current consensus over White Dwarf? Is it worth a subscription?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 24, 2017, 03:48:03 PM
Quote from: Chico on November 24, 2017, 01:50:55 PM
Hell we all grew up chopping up lead and metal figures so single piece plastics ain't much harder.

I look back on some of the conversions I pulled off, old super chunky metal figures, using only an Xacto knife, and I’m amazed I didn’t cut off an entire finger.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 24, 2017, 03:50:45 PM
Had a chance to read Gang War today...
And IMHO that game is much improved over 1st edition..
Genuinely its better game.. :O
Gangers have simplified advancement yes- but that means they advance almost like in 1st edition.. yep - its called simplified advance now.. (and have Lads got talent advancing to a specialist on 2 and 12)
Leader, champions, juves and specialist (new hero ganger that is normal ganger but advances like one of the heroes and can be upgraded to full champion)
buy what they want paying for each advancement various number of points - obviously Wounds more than WIllpower..
You have full control <3
Skills have 3 broad categories.
Primary - you chose skill
Secondary - you roll random skill
and any skill (roll random but cost much more)
Number of deaths will be much reduced - another great thing.. you can try to heal almost dead guys and only one result on D66 result in certain death
This is all I wanted from experience system..
My only problem is artificial abridgement of the rules..
There is just no sensible reason beyond silly marketing to not print rules for all common weapons in thet book..
Ad mine gripe is not with that GW want to more money.. its bacause its badly and stupidly done..
Until then we have
https://necromunda.com/…/ENG_Necromunda_Gangs_Of_Legend_Dow…
But Overall.. WOW.. I did not expected that GW - the Moloch the Evill corporation the guys that killed Warhammer blah blah blah
can make my favorite game so much better than it was in 1995 :O
But they did it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on November 25, 2017, 05:58:10 AM
I slowed my response to Necromunda.  I'd planned to go all in but some other projects caught my fancy and I kiboshed it for the now;  I didn't make any terrain leading up to the release so I didn't earn it yet anyway :D .  Thanks AWu for your opinion on the Gang War release.  I am interested from what you wrote and will get around to it eventually.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on November 25, 2017, 11:00:19 AM
Speaking of Necromunda. The new Orlocks look great

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/25/all-the-latest-from-the-warhammer-40000-open-day-nov-25gw-homepage-post-1/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 25, 2017, 12:28:45 PM
Like the new Orlocks - especially the ones looking like a cross between old orlocks and the Confrontation Maniacs.

But those new scum from forgeworld.....  :-* :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 25, 2017, 12:39:12 PM
Quote from: AWu on November 24, 2017, 03:50:45 PM
WOW.. I did not expected that GW - the Moloch the Evill corporation the guys that killed Warhammer blah blah blah
can make my favorite game so much better than it was in 1995 :O
But they did it!

They're definitely becoming a different beast! Glad to hear the game is great! Have resisted... thus far :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 25, 2017, 12:40:07 PM
Like the new Orlock figures, but as I see it's coming with yet another book...if this becomes a thing for each gang, I'll be passing on the new Necromunda.  No interest in buying a $30 book for each separate gang.  This kind of drawn out trickle of DLC which arguably should be in the main box/book is a huge turn off for me.

I'll more than likely pick up the gangs and play the old game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on November 25, 2017, 04:14:25 PM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on November 28, 2017, 11:51:53 AM
I received the game and ordered Gang War off the back of it. I’m impressed so far. Built a couple of the gangers and really like the models. Almost nervous to paint them as there’s a lot of detail! Great mileage in the sprues for generic post-apocalyptic gangers as well, and the nice and simple industrial bases are a bonus.

The FW hive scum look great but given that they’ll inevitably be around the £20 mark, I’ll just cut the stars off some of the myriad Chaos Cultists I have  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 28, 2017, 11:36:17 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on November 28, 2017, 11:51:53 AM
Almost nervous to paint them as there’s a lot of detail!

Look at Duncan videos pn painting them.
He make it look simple but his proposed techniques really let anyone paint those guys to satisfactory level (although with a surprisingly high number of gw paints :P but some of the sets he use are totally worth it - i switched to GW skin formula after watching him)

I will snap and take the FW Gor but I am waiting pricing of FW gang upgrade set with breathless anticipation..


And if anyone hasn't seen them: Orlocks
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/40kOpenDay-Orlocks1kjvd.jpg)
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/40kOpenDay-Orlocks2jcda.jpg)

And scumers
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/FWPreview-Nov27-Image2qf.jpg)
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/FWPreview-Nov27-Image1ge.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 29, 2017, 03:59:48 AM
I was very disappointed to see a considerable lack of bandannas.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 29, 2017, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: beefcake on November 29, 2017, 03:59:48 AM
I was very disappointed to see a considerable lack of bandannas.

I honestly misread that at first as lack of bananas :O

Not liking the Orlocks or Scummers though, give me more Beastmen dammit hehe
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 29, 2017, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: beefcake on November 29, 2017, 03:59:48 AM
I was very disappointed to see a considerable lack of bandannas.

I really like the new Orlocks. I always thought the original models were the dullest looking of the whole Necromunda range. Just a bland 80's movie street gang. The new ones whilst still having a generic gang look are much nicer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 29, 2017, 04:10:16 PM
They will still be dulest but I like those guys..  ;D

Original Orlocs were almost conversions of metal Catachans of the time..
I did not hate them because they were unable to  rise any hot feelings in me.
But they grew on my later.

Those I like from the beginning.
They don't tempt me to start Orlock gang but to fill ranks of many different love life scum of the galaxy, criminal elements, heretics, militias and such.
Grat base models for really anything. I hope that Delaque will make similar but coated.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on November 29, 2017, 11:46:31 PM
Out of the all the Necromunda stuff I've ever seen, I've only ever felt like getting a single model and knowing this
new stuff'd be off-scale ain't making me want more.  :-X


Quote from: Chico on November 29, 2017, 02:10:31 PM
I honestly misread that at first as lack of bananas :O

In the grim darkness of the far future, bananas are in short supply...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 30, 2017, 12:28:54 AM
Quote from: FionaWhite on November 29, 2017, 11:46:31 PM
Out of the all the Necromunda stuff I've ever seen, I've only ever felt like getting a single model <snip>

Which one?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grimmnar on November 30, 2017, 03:26:15 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 29, 2017, 03:45:59 PM
I always thought the original models were the dullest looking of the whole Necromunda range.
You thought this over the original Goliaths?

Grimm
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 30, 2017, 03:47:09 AM
Quote from: Chico on November 29, 2017, 02:10:31 PM
I honestly misread that at first as lack of bananas :O

Not liking the Orlocks or Scummers though, give me more Beastmen dammit hehe
To be honest when I was typing it I was thinking about bananas
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on November 29, 2017, 03:45:59 PM
I really like the new Orlocks. I always thought the original models were the dullest looking of the whole Necromunda range. Just a bland 80's movie street gang. The new ones whilst still having a generic gang look are much nicer.
They are very nice looking models but the "bananas" really tied them together as a gang. I guess these guys have shoulder pads in common but they just don't look like Orlocks to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 30, 2017, 05:12:44 AM
One thing irking me about the paintjobs are the buzzy bee kneepads,. Are the kneepads really that hazardous that they need to be painted that way. (Still WAY better than I can paint)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on November 30, 2017, 07:23:42 AM
Originally my favourites gangs were the Eschers and the Van Saars. Curious to see the new look of the Van Saars, if GW manages to get that far with this new 'munda. Going to pick up the new stuff today, the core box, the book (one of many, it seems, unfortunately) and extra terrain boxes.

Got the old Cawdor gang box (MIB) as well couple of blisters... don't dare to open them yet as don't have a chance to basecoat them unless with a brush  :?

Like the look of those FW 'munda minis, except that batsman. I too think they could have done better, now, as stated earlier by many, the mini seems to be too busy. Of course, being a lousy and lazy painter might affect my opinion :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on November 30, 2017, 07:54:03 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on November 30, 2017, 12:28:54 AM
Which one?

That'd be this poor random Escher:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3e/1c/8b/3e1c8b243e2849b1109728e108be3ab3.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 30, 2017, 03:01:29 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on November 30, 2017, 07:54:03 AM
That'd be this poor random Escher:

Whoa, cool paint scheme (and well done). Might be stealing that one ; )

Is that yours?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on November 30, 2017, 03:25:21 PM
Of all the classic gangs I found Orlocks the least interesting.  They looked like mediocrity and too many details short of an identity (Hey let's put loincloths on some Catachans.).  Of the three new gangs I've seen it's not shocking that, if they have done something of distinction, it is being underwhelming.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on November 30, 2017, 04:34:28 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on November 30, 2017, 03:01:29 PM
Whoa, cool paint scheme (and well done). Might be stealing that one ; )

Just to clarify, none of that's actually mine, just an example of the mini in question I found off the internet - my paintjob would be considerably less competent.  lol
On the bright side you have my full permission to steal the paint scheme.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on November 30, 2017, 04:43:45 PM
Games workshop are running a community survey asking for customer feedback. They've mentioned in the comments that they may be opening up an online forum soon aswell!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 30, 2017, 05:36:23 PM
Quote from: nic-e on November 30, 2017, 04:43:45 PM
They've mentioned in the comments that they may be opening up an online forum soon aswell!

Those poor bastards. I hope they get a bonus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 30, 2017, 05:45:41 PM
Quote from: Grimmnar on November 30, 2017, 03:26:15 AM
You thought this over the original Goliaths?

Grimm

Now I thought the Orlocks back then were dull, but I hated the concept and execution of the Goliath models when I first saw them. Over the years though the old Necromunda stuff has grown on me so I can see it all as being of it's time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 30, 2017, 05:48:44 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 30, 2017, 05:36:23 PM
Those poor bastards. I hope they get a bonus.

I'm sure they know what to expect if they do set up a forum. They've been on Facebook a little while now.  ;) 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 30, 2017, 05:53:55 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 30, 2017, 05:36:23 PM
Those poor bastards. I hope they get a bonus.

Haha, yes... the old forum was a quite something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on November 30, 2017, 07:06:24 PM
I remember that forum  lol

Can’t see it getting much mileage in the current day and age though. Forums aren’t hip.

My copy of Gang War arrived today and I am just a -touch- disappointed. It may as well have been combined with the existing rulebook but I can understand why it wasn’t. It is going to be a pain compiling all the rules together though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 30, 2017, 07:46:52 PM
To be fair, the current management might have a rather easier time of things with a forum these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on November 30, 2017, 09:07:21 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 30, 2017, 07:46:52 PM
To be fair, the current management might have a rather easier time of things with a forum these days.

They'll just need an auto ban for that minority who still complain about the death of WFB or those who keep demanding battletomes for armies they bought 5 years ago and haven't spent any money on since.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on November 30, 2017, 09:12:01 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on November 30, 2017, 07:06:24 PM
My copy of Gang War arrived today and I am just a -touch- disappointed. It may as well have been combined with the existing rulebook but I can understand why it wasn’t. It is going to be a pain compiling all the rules together though.

I'm kind of hoping that eventually, they'll compile everything together in one big book - similar to the old rules where they released the books from the box game and Outlanders together.

I have that compilation book, so I'll probably just pick up some of the new miniatures initially and stick with that - and then if they do release all the rules together as one sometime down the line, I'd pick that up.

Otherwise I'm with you - it is going to be a complete pain to have to pick up another Gang War book with every new gang release just to get the full Necromunda experience.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grimmnar on December 01, 2017, 08:32:25 AM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on November 30, 2017, 07:06:24 PM
My copy of Gang War arrived today and I am just a -touch- disappointed. It may as well have been combined with the existing rulebook but I can understand why it wasn’t. It is going to be a pain compiling all the rules together though.
Really? Cant get the reasoning?
Because if they included it in the original rulebook you would have paid more money to them. :-)

Grimm
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on December 01, 2017, 09:00:27 AM
It's so long since I visited a GW shop I was stunned to realise that I don't remember any of their current games. Have they had a complete rewrite?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 01, 2017, 09:02:48 AM
Quote from: Grimmnar on December 01, 2017, 08:32:25 AM
Really? Cant get the reasoning?
Because if they included it in the original rulebook you would have paid more money to them. :-)

Grimm

I think they'll make more money from a bunch of supplements than a single volume. I get the impression they're rolling out rules bit by bit almost as an unlock system to build the game over time. Probably to keep a steady flow of income over several months and maintain interest longer than letting everyone blow their load in one purchase only to move onto the next new thing 6 months down the line. Looks like the one and done boardgame approach might be done with and this and Shadespire are indicative of their current model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 01, 2017, 09:03:22 AM
Quote from: joroas on December 01, 2017, 09:00:27 AM
It's so long since I visited a GW shop I was stunned to realise that I don't remember any of their current games. Have they had a complete rewrite?


You mean you haven't heard of AoS?!  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 01, 2017, 09:20:47 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on December 01, 2017, 09:03:22 AM
You mean you haven't heard of AoS?!  :o

I can't believe they just destroyed the Warhammer world.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Blyi-LSIIAA3Uca.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on December 01, 2017, 10:30:46 AM
AoS I have heard of, but there seems to be these enormous collection of new boxed games......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 01, 2017, 10:38:02 AM
Quote from: joroas on December 01, 2017, 10:30:46 AM
AoS I have heard of, but there seems to be these enormous collection of new boxed games......


Yeah GW definitely responded to the boardgame boom of the past few years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on December 01, 2017, 11:17:34 AM
Quote from: Cubs on December 01, 2017, 09:20:47 AM
I can't believe they just destroyed the Warhammer world.

Indeed, I've just read about it myself in this month's "Behind The Times" mag, I'm stunned!

 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 01, 2017, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: joroas on December 01, 2017, 10:30:46 AM
AoS I have heard of, but there seems to be these enormous collection of new boxed games......


Aside from Shadespire I'd guess a lot of what you're seeing are just the various AoS and 40K sets. Lots of different boxes but just different price levels for the same games really. There could be some of the stand alone boardgames there too but some of those should be pretty familiar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 01, 2017, 12:21:07 PM
Bit of news on the WFRP front again.

Quote
The initial releases for WFRP Fourth Edition will be a core rulebook and a boxed starter set.

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/24131453_1429855027083259_4462044331879864029_n.jpg?oh=8b13897b370a300dc4593b2f27e89e5d&oe=5ACA04EC)

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/24067810_1429855183749910_845131122291609432_n.jpg?oh=0ed2855c706c36b15ee019803b021afa&oe=5A8FBF10)

Quote
“The initial plan was to make some small updates to the awesome second edition, and that would mean we would be able to release the game in 2017. We’re all huge fans of the first and second editions of WFRP, and we wanted to take the game back to those roots.

“When I got into the guts of the game I started seeing more opportunities to add in some of the things we’ve learned over the years. This more creative direction meant a longer development phase. Games Workshop are extremely supportive of us taking the time we need to make WFRP Fourth Edition the very best game it can be, and so that’s what we did. I’m very excited about the way things have come together!

“The release date of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Fourth Edition will be set for mid-2018, with a specific date to be set in a few months. Thank you for your patience while we invest the time to make the best game we can.”


https://www.facebook.com/Cubicle7Entertainment/ (https://www.facebook.com/Cubicle7Entertainment/)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 01, 2017, 01:52:35 PM
Some interesting observations to GW's current approach to licencing for computer games

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtY3Lto_lR4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtY3Lto_lR4)

TL;DR: Scattershot approach seems to work, everybody forgets the misses but the hits stick out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on December 01, 2017, 02:21:14 PM
I'm curious as to which will prove the more popular game, this or the AoS RPG, also to be produced as a separate line by Cubicle 7.

http://cubicle7.co.uk/our-games/age-of-sigmar-roleplaying-game/

My money is on WHFRP personally.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 01, 2017, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on December 01, 2017, 02:21:14 PM
I'm curious as to which will prove the more popular game, this or the AoS RPG, also to be produced as a separate line by Cubicle 7.

http://cubicle7.co.uk/our-games/age-of-sigmar-roleplaying-game/

My money is on WHFRP personally.  :)

Personally I'm more tempted by the AoS RPG because it's something new and it'll help flesh out the game world more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on December 01, 2017, 02:51:56 PM
Upcoming blood bowl elf team looks pretty nice.

(https://i.imgur.com/BG993Kl.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 01, 2017, 03:03:18 PM
Could make a nice brat gang for Necromunda too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. The Viking on December 01, 2017, 04:53:16 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on December 01, 2017, 02:25:52 PM
Personally I'm more tempted by the AoS RPG because it's something new and it'll help flesh out the game world more.

Yeah I think this one is a winner.

The old dark world has been sent into the ring too many times.

Give me something fresh and crazy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on December 01, 2017, 08:56:35 PM
AoS is a silly world where all is in chaos and turmoil and the only things that live are killing machines though. Isn't it? Doesn't sound like a place for RPG!

Like the BB Elves, they are definitely one of the best of the new teams. They actually suit GW's dynamism at all costs approach.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 01, 2017, 09:30:08 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on December 01, 2017, 08:56:35 PM
AoS is a silly world where all is in chaos and turmoil and the only things that live are killing machines though. Isn't it? Doesn't sound like a place for RPG!

The world wasn't terribly well fleshed out to begin with but GW have begun to create a more living and breathing world through Warhammer Quest and the cities/alliances sets. The RPG is exactly what could add to that. It's early days still so there's loads to add and it gives players/GMs a lot of space to get creative themselves, far more so perhaps than with the World that Was. Bear in mind as well that the original WFRP was released long before the Old World had been codified into the now familiar setting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 01, 2017, 10:14:19 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on December 01, 2017, 08:56:35 PM
AoS is a silly world where all is in chaos and turmoil and the only things that live are killing machines though. Isn't it? Doesn't sound like a place for RPG!

Like the BB Elves, they are definitely one of the best of the new teams. They actually suit GW's dynamism at all costs approach.

Yes and no.

After the death of the old world, sigmar and the souls of many great heros/gods floated in the void as chaos consumed itself.

Eventually the winds of magic formed realms. Near infinite plains that embodied their forming winds. the spirits of life,races long dead and new races born into these realms soon sprang up, populating each realm. Sigmar saw this and from his celestial home he built an empire.
Eventually chaos returned, seeing these new realms in the void, archaon ,now grand marshall of the chaos gods, ploughed over the empire of sigmar and the alliance he had formed with the new gods of death, life and destruction.
Sigmar retreated and locked himself in azyr, the celestial realm.

This started the age of chaos, where everything fell slowly to chaos or was forced into hiding for millennia.

the setting of Age of Aigmar starts at the end of the age of chaos, When sigmar has completed work on his new army to march against the dominant powers of archaon and his forces and take back the realms, using and ancinet realmgates built by various races and peoples in days long gone.

We are noew a few hundred years in, as the summer campaigns and campaign books each pushed the narrative a few decades forward.
Cities have been built by pioneers from aigmars realm, old alliances have been reformed between the godess of life and sigmar. Those who were in hiding have started to come forward and huge areas have been conquered and exist in a delicate state of peace as chaos is pushed back.

the reason age of sigmar feels empty is because it's NEW and it's HUGE. Gone is the single map with its unchanging borders. An overnight raid by a chaos warlord seeking glory could push the frontier of order back hundreds of miles, or a captured realmgate could mean the building of a new city of life in the middle of the land of death.
There's endless scope for exploration and fun, with the freedom for all kinds of bizarre moorcock style fantasy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on December 01, 2017, 11:13:13 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on December 01, 2017, 03:03:18 PM
Could make a nice brat gang for Necromunda too.

I'm doing some ridiculous conversions for a Brat gang atm.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on December 01, 2017, 11:33:51 PM
Quote from: nic-e on October 17, 1974, 05:37:25 AM
the reason age of sigmar feels empty is because it's NEW and it's HUGE. Gone is the single map with its unchanging borders. An overnight raid by a chaos warlord seeking glory could push the frontier of order back hundreds of miles, or a captured realmgate could mean the building of a new city of life in the middle of the land of death.

That's why it doesn't work for me. With what appears to be an infinite world and no distinct, detailed histories which match a clear geography, there are no stakes. Anything can change at any time so there's no inherent drama. Just continual war. Yawn.

That said, given a decade of lore writing that might change. And the aos lore I have read has the feeling of an Epic in the true sense of the word, so I'm not dismissing it - it's just not grounded enough for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on December 01, 2017, 11:57:10 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on December 01, 2017, 11:13:13 PM
I'm doing some ridiculous conversions for a Brat gang atm.  lol

Photos, man. Photos!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on December 02, 2017, 10:20:43 AM
Is it just me who measures his age in the wargaming hobby by the number of Blood Angels codices issued? I must be six, at least.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 02, 2017, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: boneio on December 01, 2017, 11:33:51 PM
That's why it doesn't work for me. With what appears to be an infinite world and no distinct, detailed histories which match a clear geography, there are no stakes. Anything can change at any time so there's no inherent drama. Just continual war. Yawn.

That said, given a decade of lore writing that might change. And the aos lore I have read has the feeling of an Epic in the true sense of the word, so I'm not dismissing it - it's just not grounded enough for me.

It just needs time. It's only been a couple of years so there's plenty of world building to do. I think some people though really like the lack of a fully formed game world and prefer the freedom to put their own spin on it, just like early Warhammer. I'm looking forward to seeing some of the blanks and vagaries filled in a bit more though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 02, 2017, 01:42:51 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on December 02, 2017, 10:20:43 AM
Is it just me who measures his age in the wargaming hobby by the number of Blood Angels codices issued? I must be six, at least.  ;D

lol

I remember the day I was born!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on December 04, 2017, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on December 01, 2017, 11:57:10 PM
Photos, man. Photos!

Emailed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 06, 2017, 05:24:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MofgqGcXsRI&feature=youtu.be

Games workshop let the guys from Miniwargaming on youtube do a video behind the scenes at warhammer world. Pretty funny, and there's a sneak peak at the new beast of nurgle.

I got the december white dwarf today and my god it's packed with stuff! BAttle reports for AoS , 40k, necromunda, and the lord of the rings, content on shadespire, spacehulk, warghammer quest, necromunda, blnachistu , armies on parade...free stuff too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tomrommel1 on December 07, 2017, 07:28:20 AM
hilarious
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 07, 2017, 10:26:10 AM
Quote from: nic-e on December 06, 2017, 05:24:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MofgqGcXsRI&feature=youtu.be

Games workshop let the guys from Miniwargaming on youtube do a video behind the scenes at warhammer world. Pretty funny, and there's a sneak peak at the new beast of nurgle.

I got the december white dwarf today and my god it's packed with stuff! BAttle reports for AoS , 40k, necromunda, and the lord of the rings, content on shadespire, spacehulk, warghammer quest, necromunda, blnachistu , armies on parade...free stuff too.


That beast of nurgle looks like it might be a throwback to the original (and best) model.

It was rather nice to see the Space Hulk rules for hybrids in WD. Might put to rest the expectations of those who think Deathwing and Genestealer should get boxed sets (not happening!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 07, 2017, 08:22:31 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 01, 2017, 01:40:51 PM
Now not buying that humble bundle of the WHFRPG stuff comes back to bite me like a redback spider!

Cubicle 7 have just released the first edition rulebook on RPGNow (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228084/Warhammer-Fantasy-Roleplay-First-Edition-Core-Rulebook) for $9.99

Quote
Fully OCR'd, bookmarked and cleaned up to look amazing, the first edition of the seminal Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay comes to PDF!

We’ve painstakingly scanned every page, and created a PDF that maintains the appearance of the original. This does make for a slightly larger file than we’d normally produce, but on this occasion, we think it’s worth it for all the great First Edition feel! The PDF is also extensively bookmarked for ease of reference.

We released a version earlier in the year via Humble Bundle that did not have the colour plates of the Games Workshop edition, but this new PDF does have all those glorious colour plates we know so well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on December 08, 2017, 09:06:49 AM
Quote from: Scurv on December 07, 2017, 08:51:06 PM
I have that in book form.
Same. Got it on eBay and it wasn't expensive as I recall. This pre-dates the Oldhammer explosion though, so no doubt it is pricey these days. Lovely item.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on December 08, 2017, 08:30:52 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on December 08, 2017, 09:06:49 AM
Same. Got it on eBay and it wasn't expensive as I recall. This pre-dates the Oldhammer explosion though, so no doubt it is pricey these days. Lovely item.

Yeah got that too, never played but I used to love pouring over it as a lad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 08, 2017, 10:36:09 PM
I was looking at my copy just today!

Bought direct off the shop shelf of local hobby shop when it was shiny new and took far to good care of it over the years.

sigh....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 08, 2017, 11:11:32 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on December 08, 2017, 08:30:52 PM
Yeah got that too, never played but I used to love pouring over it as a lad.

Ditto.
Never actually played that edition but really enjoyed reading through them.

I now have almost all of the original campaign packs for when I can finally nail our old rpg group down for a regular game  sometime....
It may happen one day.
 ::)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on December 10, 2017, 09:21:40 PM
I was struck by an urge to procure Blood Bowl stuff this morning and was disappointed by the price s on eBay of 3rd edition models, not least because I have already got a fair bit. To my surprise GW have still failed to make it possible to build teams properly in most cases. What have people on here done? Any tips? Some non-GW stuff is ok but I'm much more interested in the proper mini's. Not really interested in kit-bashing either, and if anyone suggests converting AoS models there will be trouble.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 11, 2017, 02:40:21 PM
Really in the lapse of normal Blood Bowl, a bunch of alternate 3rd party teams became available - mostly in resin.  Stuff like Black Scorpion, etc.  This was what carried Blood Bowl for a decade or more in the market's absence.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on December 11, 2017, 07:28:26 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on December 10, 2017, 09:21:40 PM
I was struck by an urge to procure Blood Bowl stuff this morning and was disappointed by the price s on eBay of 3rd edition models, not least because I have already got a fair bit. To my surprise GW have still failed to make it possible to build teams properly in most cases. What have people on here done? Any tips? Some non-GW stuff is ok but I'm much more interested in the proper mini's. Not really interested in kit-bashing either, and if anyone suggests converting AoS models there will be trouble.

Have this ork team for sale if interested?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on December 11, 2017, 08:54:24 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on December 11, 2017, 07:28:26 PM
Have this ork team for sale if interested?
Thanks, will consider it. I actually had those but they went missing somehow.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on December 12, 2017, 05:08:24 PM
Something else I'm sure we all already have.  ;)

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228632/Warhammer-Fantasy-Roleplay-First-Edition--Shadows-Over-Bogenhafen-The-Enemy-Within-Part-1?affiliate_id=169435 (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/228632/Warhammer-Fantasy-Roleplay-First-Edition--Shadows-Over-Bogenhafen-The-Enemy-Within-Part-1?affiliate_id=169435)

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25299214_1441187632616665_728168601553483716_n.jpg?oh=23e191d608babb36b105a603b3eed743&oe=5ACE2866)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on December 15, 2017, 03:56:29 PM
Ah, Shadows Over Bögenhafen.

We made it exactly to the point where some pompous windbag of a noblewoman informed us that she and her bodyguard would be
taking the coach and we could wait a few weeks for the next one. Said bodyguard was willing to enforce this with violence.

Being the fine and upstanding ladies and gentlemen we were, we killed the bodyguard, noblewoman and coachman to boot,
then ran off with the coach that was later used for firewood and the horses for steeds.

None of us ever set foot in Bögenhafen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 15, 2017, 04:28:51 PM
There's nothing quite as pitiful as the look on a GM's face, when their carefully crafted and beautifully planned scenario, potentially running for several in-depth and meticulous weeks, suddenly gets torpedoed by psychotic players 'thinking outside the box'.

I recall one game (forget which) where, to the surprise of the GM, none of the characters decided they wanted to go to visit the tavern after a long journey. 'A good night's sleep and a fresh start in the morning' was the order of the day. After chewing his lip for a couple of seconds, he stated, "There's a giant flashing neon sign above the tavern, with an arrow pointing down, saying 'PLOT HINT HERE'.' We visited the tavern.

There was another wonderful game (run by my brother) where, in the middle of a modern day murder-mystery scenario, one of the characters in the party decided to shoot a policeman's helmet off his head, to stop him being annoying. The inevitable bad rolling happened and the story came to a grinding halt as he was arrested for murdering the poor man in cold blood. Sigh. Who'd be a GM?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 15, 2017, 05:08:13 PM
Been there, done that.

(buys new book for RPG game)

First player/NPC interaction, player gets upset and punches prominent (read: entire story revolves around him) NPC...whilst wearing power armour.  NPC is turned into a paste, and I tossed the book aside and we played some Nintenda 64 while I fumed.  >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 15, 2017, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 15, 2017, 07:49:11 PM
GM's have to think on their feet and roll with the punches as players do dumb stuff all the time.

My rule of thumb is a three point story arc with a few paragraphs of plot points scribbled down is sufficient for an adventure design.

Meticulous notes and pages of description make the wheels fall off more often than not.

Agreed. I tend to draw a rough map of the plot with a few key encounters, and then fudge it to get the players there without them realising.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on December 15, 2017, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 15, 2017, 04:28:51 PM
Who'd be a GM?

I've GM'd many times.
The PTSD is what made me the player I'm today.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 15, 2017, 11:49:13 PM
Quote from: Scurv on December 15, 2017, 07:49:11 PM
GM's have to think on their feet and roll with the punches as players do dumb stuff all the time.

My rule of thumb is a three point story arc with a few paragraphs of plot points scribbled down is sufficient for an adventure design.

Meticulous notes and pages of description make the wheels fall off more often than not.

bAtal planz nOver survivze kontAKt wif de emEny!!!1

- Warnob Klawzwitz
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 16, 2017, 12:43:08 AM
Oh, I fully agree...and I went on to GM a lot of fun games.  This was just one of those moments...and it let me know the mood the players were in.  So it was a day for Dr. Pepper, popcorn, and Goldeneye. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 16, 2017, 10:01:29 AM
Forge World are currently having a sale.... 10% of a warlord titan!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on December 16, 2017, 01:38:13 PM
Quote from: nic-e on December 16, 2017, 10:01:29 AM
Forge World are currently having a sale.... 10% of a warlord titan!
Put me down for ten.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on December 17, 2017, 12:35:09 AM
Quote from: nic-e on December 16, 2017, 10:01:29 AM
Forge World are currently having a sale.... 10% of a warlord titan!

A Christmas miracle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 17, 2017, 11:08:07 AM
You'd be stupid Not to buy 12.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on December 17, 2017, 03:32:01 PM
10th one is free...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on December 18, 2017, 02:39:45 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on December 18, 2017, 09:12:45 PM
Quote from: AWu on December 17, 2017, 03:32:01 PM
10th one is free...  lol
I think I'm right in saying that you'd have to buy ten to get a free one. No less of a giveaway for it though, obviously.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 19, 2017, 12:31:57 AM
A snip at the price!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on December 25, 2017, 09:31:08 PM
New Nurgle figures.....!!! Merry Christmas.  8) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 26, 2017, 09:50:49 AM
I think that's just a middle school let out for the holidays...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on December 26, 2017, 10:17:37 AM
Did anyone else notice that on p.16 of the Necromunda Underhive rulebook an area set aside for visitors to the Palatine Spire Hive Primus is mentioned, said visitors being "Squats and Eldar"?  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on December 26, 2017, 10:33:36 PM
(https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture4/2656/JanPreview-Dec19-Unclean3bdr.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 26, 2017, 11:35:08 PM
Looks like a plastic version of the Forgeworld one... but more friendly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 27, 2017, 12:51:06 AM
Yep, comes with several options including a new named character version --- personally I think its the soft daisy-like paint scheme that GW insists on using for their latest Nurgle efforts which undermines the miniature a ton. I "bet" it could look pretty sickening when done right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 27, 2017, 07:30:16 AM
Yes. A pale grey, almost white would look rather sickening. Purplish blotches etc. But Nurgle stuff has always been green I guess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 27, 2017, 06:46:44 PM
I like the new heralds of nurgle. A dancing jester with his old mentors head on a stick and a frankly hideous (in a good way) sculpt of a tallyman with a giant distended mouth perched on his shouler that wouldn't like out of place in a hieronymus bosch fever dream.

I'm curious to see what else they do. they've mentioned the mortal followers of nurgle, and since the blightkings are a new kit, perhaps we could be getting nurgle cultists or pestigors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on December 27, 2017, 06:49:01 PM
Also, GW should just up and make a cartoon.
These little shorts are really fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pkbh6pUGac

(all nurgle lords are from somerset now.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on January 01, 2018, 06:48:58 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on December 11, 2017, 07:28:26 PM
Have this ork team for sale if interested?
Quick update: while visiting an old friend today my old orc team miraculously resurfaced in amongst all his old GW! A pleasant surprise to kick off 2018.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 02, 2018, 01:15:11 PM
New beast of Nurgle isn't quite what I thought it was going to be!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 04, 2018, 05:36:48 PM
I don't know about you all, but my second love in wargaming was dusty skeletons. I've built up a collection of them, and paint them fondly.

After AoS dropped, GW cut the TK line from production. This is a sad state of affairs, as vampires have been done to death in fantasy gaming and the TK offered a unique asthetic.

Personally I think the core skellies just needed a reboot to be in line with the tomb guard, and the range would have sold like hotcakes. Strong core troops, strong monsters, strong heroes.

I want to hear other gamers reasons for/against get bringing back the TK range. What are your thoughts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 04, 2018, 05:41:47 PM
@staff and/or more experienced users

Trying to read between the lines here; does this thread exist to basically discourage users from discussing GW products on LAF?

I can understand why quarantining the vitriol was a good move in 2013 (as a moderator on Dakka Dakka, I have special sympathy) but it may be time to rethink this policy thanks to GW turning their business model around and being much more customer friendly.

Unless GW is too "mainstream" for LAF or similar?

@stone-cold-lead

I can't think of a single reason NOT to bring TK back. A substantial portion of the line is practically brand new. Core units need updating but otherwise the product line is completely suitable for the setting and mechanics of Age of Sigmar. As I mentioned in the other thread, GW's biggest challenge at the moment seems to be production capacity. They cannot keep up with demand for their plastics. Here's hoping they will expand production capacity with some of the record 2017 revenues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on January 04, 2018, 05:51:40 PM
Quote from: Manchu on January 04, 2018, 05:41:47 PM
@staff and/or more experienced users

Trying to read between the lines here; does this thread exist to basically discourage users from discussing GW products on LAF?


No, it's designed to stop multiple threads about GW swamping LAF, as per the opening post to this thread. It's explained there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 04, 2018, 05:53:23 PM
Rather than specifically targeting the vitriol, I think it was also because with the output GW has at times the fantasy and sci-fi boards were nothing but people discussing GW products. People would then start to discuss things relating to both the original topic and that of other ones and there would be 3-4 nearly identical discussions going on.

Or that is how I remember it, I could be wrong.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on January 04, 2018, 06:09:26 PM
No, you’re right. Hence one consolidated topic for all things GW related regarding their products and practices.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 04, 2018, 06:43:37 PM
Sure I read the OP. Just seems draconian, although, again, during that time period where GW was so anti-customer and a lot of hobbyists were posting perhaps justified but certainly redundant rants about how terrible GW was, I can totally sympathize. But it seems like the answer is just, GW was just too popular of a subject. And that won't have changed now, with GW doing a lot better on its customer-facing performance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on January 04, 2018, 08:00:32 PM
If you go on any of the chans and the "traditional gaming" boards, then you'll find a lot of them implemented something like this to stop ten billion 40k threads from popping up.

Unless it's a Warhammer focused community, there's no point in allowing it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 04, 2018, 08:40:43 PM
Many of us came here actively seeking out non-GW communities and projects.  There are still a ton of cool GW product related project threads and game reports here, but no endless circlejerk discussions.  That's what this thread is for.  To say nothing of the dozens of GW-centered gaming sites.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on January 04, 2018, 11:02:29 PM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on January 04, 2018, 08:40:43 PM
There are still a ton of cool GW product related project threads and game reports here, but no endless circlejerk discussions.  

This and what YPU and the Captain have said. There have always been plenty of threads where people have offered up what they have painted and played as regards any GW game. But endless threads about GW releases and the wants and needs of its fan base shut out other systems. Add in the haters, moaners and whingers piping-up, and it became a problem; as mentioned above.

So people actually doing something with the stuff can open individual threads to their heart's content on the appropriate boards, while just talking 'GW', just like any other single topic, was confined to a single thread.

No anti-GW conspiracy or policy, just good forum sense.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 04, 2018, 11:35:26 PM
Speaking of GW.....

they just launched the website for Malign portents. If you haven't watched the last 4 teaser videos I recommend you do so, they're lovely little cartoons that do a great job of building atmosphere.

For those who are down on AoS because of the realms or lack of concrete setting, check out the website, It has a cool video explaining the mortal realms, how they interact and where they are in relation to each other. There's some nice little stories on there and some fluff about the regular people living in the age of sigmar.

https://malignportents.com/

Also on the tomb king discussion, Skirmish and shadespire both focus on the Katophranes, a Egyptian style kingdom of sorcerers that defied Nagash by escaping death. He pounded them into another dimension when he found out, but there are some very tomb king style bits scattered throughout the various undead titbits of AoS.


(edit:there's also interactive maps with key locations and facts.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 01:54:17 AM
I really do hope the core skellies get a redo. A combined kit on the infantry and new skellies horsemen would be awesome
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 08:55:10 AM
Quote from: Hupp n at em on January 04, 2018, 08:40:43 PM
Many of us came here actively seeking out non-GW communities and projects.
Quote from: Arlequín on January 04, 2018, 11:02:29 PM
But endless threads about GW releases and the wants and needs of its fan base shut out other systems. Add in the haters, moaners and whingers piping-up, and it became a problem; as mentioned above.
So yeah, this sentiment is why I suspected (and, I think, can pretty solidly conclude) that discussing GW is, for all practical purposes discouraged, here on LAF. Which is fair enough, of course. There are other sites on the internet after all.

@nic-e: Good point RE: Shadespire - there's nothing explicitly TK-related but the look/feel of some of the art really does evoke the "spirit" of TK. Maybe TK will be somewhat rebranded away from the faux-Egyptian style to a more generic "lost empire" theme?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 05, 2018, 10:03:02 AM
Hmm. I'm not sure discouraged so much, after all there are 542 pages of this stuff (the first 300 odd are all complaints though  lol ) But I guess it is more, let's not let GW take over the forum. I guess that could be seen as discouraged though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on January 05, 2018, 11:16:46 AM
Quote from: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 08:55:10 AM
So yeah, this sentiment is why I suspected (and, I think, can pretty solidly conclude) that discussing GW is, for all practical purposes discouraged, here on LAF. Which is fair enough, of course. There are other sites on the internet after all.

Erm no... Talk about anything is encouraged, but nobody or anything gets unequal treatment, favour, or implied priviledge. Beefcake is quite correct, talk about anything, but don't let one thing become what the forum is about.

There's no fear or favour, quite the opposite; a forum search for any broad GW game terms will almost certainly produce a high number of posts and of course, as already mentioned, 542 pages of 'GW talk' doesn't look like it's being suppressed in any way.

I understand that this is the opposite of a forum or two, past and present, where if you didn't play GW, you were made very unwelcome. Here everyone is welcome, but nothing gets special treatment, positive or negative.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 11:24:53 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on January 05, 2018, 11:16:46 AM
nothing gets special treatment, positive or negative.
Well, is discussion of any other company/group of product lines "ghettoized" (shut down, relegated to a single uselessly huge thread)? Seems like special treatment. Which makes sense, it's a special case. I mean, there's no need to get defensive about it. LAF has a policy of strictly restraining discussion of GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on January 05, 2018, 11:43:58 AM
Not per say, but whenever other games systems start dominating specific boards they tend to get swept off into their own little sub-boards: Strange Aeons, Frostgrave, IHMN, etc. Sometimes the interest in these games dies down and then they get merged back in (Atomic Cafe is one example). Not much difference tbh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on January 05, 2018, 11:46:18 AM
Quote from: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 11:24:53 AM
Well, is discussion of any other company/group of product lines "ghettoized" (shut down, relegated to a single uselessly huge thread)? Seems like special treatment. Which makes sense, it's a special case. I mean, there's no need to get defensive about it. LAF has a policy of strictly restraining discussion of GW.

We are only restricting discussion of general GW policies (e.g. product, release schedule, pricing, world domination etc.) to a single thread since those escalated with alarming regularity into repetitive mud-slinging and name-calling circlewhatevers.

One is free to have discussions on actual available products, specific hobby projects, miniature painting, the merits of their paint range. No problem with opening a thread on those. Keep it on topic and purposeful, and avoid bashfests, is what we request. One may just have to provide something of interest.

The focus of the LAF has always been on a wide variety of games and miniature lines, with no bias given officially towards or against any, but people being what they are (hell if you ask me but that is beside the point), there have been fads and favourites, and back then a very strong focus on BOB, Darkest Africa and other Adventure games since the discourse back then in Germany was overwhelmingly GW-centric, whereas there were few forums with a broader perspective.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 12:28:15 PM
I love LAF and have no problem with the way the forum is run. Having a "ghetto" thread for GW discussion is fine with me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on January 05, 2018, 01:23:17 PM
Quote from: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 11:24:53 AM
I mean, there's no need to get defensive about it.

I'm not, just calling it how I see it for the sake of discussion.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 05, 2018, 01:36:13 PM
I think LAF does GW right.  It really doesn't need to become the cesspool that Dakka Dakka is.  In fact I go to two forums: LAF...and Dakka Dakka (mainly when I want to just enjoy how good LAF is by comparison, kinda enjoy slingin' mud on occasion with the miscreants).

GW-aimed forums do tend to be the very worst forums I've been on, so keeping the GW influence to a moderate level on LAF is a smart move and keeps the forum more professional, polite, and seemingly mature.  If someone wants to talk GW there are dozens of forums and hundreds of facebook pages for every single army/desire.  LAF is the best collection of the "other" stuff on the web.  It's the only collective place I've found for all of the odd, bizarre and rare wargaming genres which struggle to maintain a large supportive online presence by themselves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 01:50:24 PM
Dakka Dakka isn't a cesspool. We run that forum the way we do to encourage (not merely tolerate) discussion and of course it has always been a GW-centric discussion. I value LAF because of the hobby-oriented content but the discussion here is pretty thin, with many "+1" style posts. And when a nice little convo about the possibility of TK making a comeback gets shuffled into this dustbin thread, you can see why. I love to browse LAF because the projects people post here are much more in line with my tastes in miniatures gaming than the more monolithic scene over on Dakka Dakka. Nothing wrong with different sites having different strengths, doesn't mean one is a cesspool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 04:39:20 PM
Getting back to my sub topic of tomb kings.....what other ways do you think they should come back?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 05, 2018, 05:54:54 PM
Maybe have a standard 'Necromancer' and 'Undead Minions' options, via which people could decide whether their Necromancer is an undying Tomb King, a Vampire Lord, a Wight Sorcerer, or whatever. The accompanying minions could be flavoured accordingly, but run along similar lines. Perhaps each faction could have certain bonuses or abilities, but still be assembled along similar lines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 05, 2018, 06:57:33 PM
I've just grabbed the old 2nd hand warhammer quest out of storage. Never played it before. Going to give it a go with my son today. Should be fun. Anyone know where to get pdfs of the additional warrior quest packs? I've picked up some of the minis over time but never the paper bits to go with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 05, 2018, 07:21:47 PM
Quote from: Cubs on January 05, 2018, 05:54:54 PM
Maybe have a standard 'Necromancer' and 'Undead Minions' options, via which people could decide whether their Necromancer is an undying Tomb King, a Vampire Lord, a Wight Sorcerer, or whatever. The accompanying minions could be flavoured accordingly, but run along similar lines. Perhaps each faction could have certain bonuses or abilities, but still be assembled along similar lines.

You can do that already basically if it's little more than an aesthetic choice. Abilities would help encourage people though and is something GW has been doing with other factions to lead the more needy competitive list type of gamers in the right direction.

As for how to reintroduce TK, I don't know anything about their lore so I'm not sure whether they fit into AoS from a fluff point of view. Unless they've been specifically killed off then I guess GW could resurrect the faction or at least the aesthetic. I suspect the latter would be more likely to occur but may might not be quite what TK fans would expect. GW have thrown a few curve balls recently when bringing things back from the past. I doubt they'd want to put another faction of slightly different looking skellies back into their catalogue but maybe something like mummified undead that would be a very distinct troop type/faction might work better. Shadespire warbands might be a good testing ground for new models but again I wouldn't expect skellies there when one already exists in the range. At this point I think TK are only one step closer than Bretonnians to being brought back, and Bretonnians have shit all chance of reappearing. Most undead players are desperate for a Battletome (beyond the ghouls) so I reckon that is more likely to appear sooner than a new range of undead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on January 05, 2018, 07:37:44 PM
https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/1952017071785589/?type=3&theater

"There's a HUGE reveal on the way for Warhammer 40,000 tomorrow - make sure to check back to see what it is! In the meantime, let the wild speculation BEGIN:"

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26169517_1952017071785589_1499464613730408974_n.jpg?oh=d25b331f41ca622e9b8763a6ed32bccd&oe=5AF5F6A6)

What do you guys think it's gonna be?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 07:45:38 PM
Plastic sisters. Tied in to an order hereticus release
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 07:53:26 PM
We have Sisters of Silence in plastic. But Adepta Sororitas remain metal.

Just take a moment to absorb that.

Accordingly, it is more likely that GW will announce the Jokaero Liberation Army tomorrow than plastic Sisters of Battle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 05, 2018, 07:53:51 PM
Squats.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on January 05, 2018, 08:05:11 PM
Is it too much to hope for the Slann? Or do they no longer exist in 40K?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on January 05, 2018, 08:08:18 PM
I'm personally calling it now: New army based off whatever creature's skull is on the Xenos Codex:

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60040199087_IndexXenosVol2ENG01.jpg)

Hope it's Rak'gol, but I think it might be Ambull related faction.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 08:10:41 PM
It's not really clear if Slann are still a thing in 40k. They may be the "Old Ones."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 08:11:03 PM
Quote from: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 07:53:26 PM
We have Sisters of Silence in plastic. But Adepta Sororitas remain metal.

Just take a moment to absorb that.

Accordingly, it is more likely that GW will announce the Jokaero Liberation Army tomorrow than plastic Sisters of Battle.

One can hope. Otherwise I'll just keep casting my squad of metals for cheaper.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 08:11:56 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on January 05, 2018, 08:08:18 PM
I'm personally calling it now: New army based off whatever creature's skull is on the Xenos Codex:

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60040199087_IndexXenosVol2ENG01.jpg)

Hope it's Rak'gol, but I think it might be Ambull related faction.

That's a good spot. I'll bet you are right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 05, 2018, 08:19:33 PM
Neurons maybe? I'd hope for a new faction though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 08:21:52 PM
Announcing a new faction would be exciting. But GW cannot* support the existing factions.

*honestly seems to be "cannot" as opposed to "will not"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 08:24:10 PM
Quote from: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 08:21:52 PM
Announcing a new faction would be exciting. But GW cannot* support the existing factions.

*honestly seems to be "cannot" as opposed to "will not"

They need to upgrade thier production capacity
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 05, 2018, 08:35:30 PM
ok, GW's facebook team is on fire in the comments on there. Dunno why, but it's always good to know somebody at the big boys can still crack a decent pun at their own expense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 08:45:28 PM
Quote from: YPU on January 05, 2018, 08:35:30 PM
ok, GW's facebook team is on fire in the comments on there. Dunno why, but it's always good to know somebody at the big boys can still crack a decent pun at their own expense.

Self deprecating humor is, just like spice, the spice of life
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 05, 2018, 08:48:01 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on January 05, 2018, 08:08:18 PM
Hope it's Rak'gol, but I think it might be Ambull related faction.

Hadn't heard of the rak'gol, but man that is quite a bit of fluff for them from the rpg books.

Quote from: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 08:45:28 PM
Self deprecating humor is, just like spice, the spice of life

Exactly!


Somebody on facebook commented it might well be space marine chapter "returning" to its own codex again, or some new (primaris?) chapter. It does sound like the obvious option.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on January 05, 2018, 09:05:37 PM
Quote from: YPU on January 05, 2018, 08:48:01 PM

Somebody on facebook commented it might well be space marine chapter "returning" to its own codex again, or some new (primaris?) chapter. It does sound like the obvious option.

I fear that is probably exactly what it will be. And what makes me really sad is that this is economically the best thing they can do because spess marines sell...funny stuff doesn’t  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on January 05, 2018, 09:33:55 PM
Maybe it's the Alpha Legion returning from posing as a Traitor Legion  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on January 05, 2018, 09:38:19 PM
"They have watched.
They have waited.
They are coming."

Suggests something new entirely rather than something like Sisters getting plastics. Maybe a third marine faction.  ;D
I'm gonna do the crazy thing and go sleep, then see what fell out later tomorrow.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 05, 2018, 10:16:35 PM

Which Spess Marines Primachs are still AWOL Good/bad/meh presumed not/probably dead for the last 10'000 years or so?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 05, 2018, 10:26:41 PM
Part of me wants it too be a new non-SM Faction but my guess is Space Wolves and Lemon Russ or The Fallen and Luther (Since he's fluff has moved forward in the DA Codex to have escaped the Rock).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on January 05, 2018, 10:39:39 PM
I will be really surprised if this will not be a something-something Spacemarine thing. :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 10:41:11 PM
It's custodes termiantors:

(https://i.imgur.com/3M8Ff2b.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 11:08:22 PM
Quote from: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 10:41:11 PM
It's custodes termiantors:

(https://i.imgur.com/3M8Ff2b.png)

Emperor damn you. You beat me. I had the link copied and everything.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 05, 2018, 11:08:52 PM
Quote from: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 10:41:11 PM
It's custodes termiantors:

(https://i.imgur.com/3M8Ff2b.png)

I doubt that's the BIG reveal.They tend to show off alot of upcoming stuff at the open days.A box of troops, no matter how shiny, doesn't seem to warrant HUGE news warnings.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 11:12:21 PM
Quote from: nic-e on January 05, 2018, 11:08:52 PM
I doubt that's the BIG reveal.They tend to show off alot of upcoming stuff at the open days.A box of troops, no matter how shiny, doesn't seem to warrant HUGE news warnings.

They are custodian terminators. They are big, and they are news
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on January 05, 2018, 11:49:57 PM
Quote from: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 11:12:21 PM
They are custodian terminators. They are big, and they are news

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 06, 2018, 01:32:25 AM
Quote from: lord marcus on January 05, 2018, 11:12:21 PM
They are custodian terminators. They are big, and they are news

But they aren't really out of the ordinary. If you told me yesterday that GW were going to release custodes terminators I'd shrug and say "yeah probably".

It's not a release that stands out as SO out of the ordinary that it warrants special warning.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 06, 2018, 04:48:17 AM
Agreed.
They have Watched, Maybe a tzeentch thing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 06, 2018, 06:00:30 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on January 05, 2018, 11:49:57 PM


You have made me very happy with one of my favorite quotes from Futurama.

A good day to you, sir.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on January 06, 2018, 08:04:07 AM
I'm pretty sure the "Custodian terminators are the big announcement" thing is just someone at GW fucking with people. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on January 06, 2018, 11:00:32 AM
My 2p on the subject:

The Watchers in the Dark of Dark Angels fame?

or the

Alien group that tried to bring about the quick fall of man, so that Chaos did not win the universe that were in the Alpha Legion book.

or I would like to see a return of the Sensi (Emperors real sons) or maybe the Tyranids aren't just invading our galaxy maybe they are running from something

Probably none of those

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 06, 2018, 11:15:07 AM
Turns out it's a full Custodes release, with new jetbikes and other plastic kits, including the termie things we saw yesterday.

Forge world will be releasing rules to use 30k in 40k.

While cool, I am underwhelmed. I wanted sisters or a necron release.

On the AoS front:

New battletome: legions of Nagash. 4 new "allegiances" or army's within. Each tied to either one of the mortarchs or nagash himself. MORE RELEASES TO COME.

This means we may see the tomb kings again. God emperor I hope so.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Corso on January 06, 2018, 11:17:11 AM
Would like the Tomb Kings back too. The Undead were pretty neglected on the AoS front, so the Legions' book is good - would like new zombies though.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on January 06, 2018, 11:18:32 AM
Great.
Big announcement for the start of the year is bling marines...yay...Woot...*snores*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 06, 2018, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: Corso on January 06, 2018, 11:17:11 AM
Would like the Tomb Kings back too. The Undead were pretty neglected on the AoS front, so the Legions' book is good - would like new zombies though.



Why? Mantic zombies are great.

Agree with you on the legions book. I'm more interested in tomb kings, and models in general, but I may pick it up anyway.

@jamesValentine my sentiments exactly
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Corso on January 06, 2018, 11:26:14 AM
Quote from: lord marcus on January 06, 2018, 11:19:37 AM
Why? Mantic zombies are great.


True, but new zombies by gw could be better though price-wise they may be a monster! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 06, 2018, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: Corso on January 06, 2018, 11:26:14 AM
True, but new zombies by gw could be better though price-wise they may be a monster! lol

I'd probably buy a set, but I'm seeing it as super hard for them to top mantic zombies
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 06, 2018, 12:04:25 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on January 06, 2018, 11:18:32 AM
Big announcement for the start of the year is bling marines...yay...Woot...*snores*

In my book it would be more of a big announcement if the new release was not about space/fantasy marines. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 06, 2018, 12:06:31 PM
Quote from: Dolmot on January 06, 2018, 12:04:25 PM
In my book it would be more of a big announcement if the new release was not about space/fantasy marines. :?

I was hoping for necrons on the 40k front
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 06, 2018, 12:09:55 PM
Well that Death battletome should shut up the FB whiners at last (just need to silence the Skaven and Slaanesh whingers)  ;) . I'm gonna call it now though, no Tomb Kings re-release. Can't see any reason for it. I'd put money on new zombies though as the current ones are horrendously dated and utter shite.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 06, 2018, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on January 06, 2018, 12:09:55 PM
Well that Death battletome should shut up the FB whiners at last (just need to silence the Skaven and Slaanesh whingers)  ;) . I'm gonna call it now though, no Tomb Kings re-release. Can't see any reason for it. I'd put money on new zombies though as the current ones are horrendously dated and utter shite.

I don't know, both arkhan and neferata have a claim yo them
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on January 06, 2018, 02:04:12 PM
It's definitely Custodes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUI1WOUpuYg

Same language as the teaser.

God damn it GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on January 06, 2018, 02:45:56 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on January 06, 2018, 02:04:12 PM
It's definitely Custodes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUI1WOUpuYg

Same language as the teaser.

God damn it GW.

Probably the biggest disappointment since Karl-Franz magickally survived Empire in Flames...

Super-Spess-Marines! Wow. What’s next? I hope a lost Spess Marine Chapter that can be painted any way you like!?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on January 06, 2018, 02:48:14 PM
Quote from: Manchu on January 05, 2018, 07:53:26 PM
Jokaero Liberation Army

Now I'm sad because that's not a real thing  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 06, 2018, 03:08:48 PM
I dont have anything against Custodes but after such mysterious preview I expected anything not released in 2017 :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 06, 2018, 03:16:49 PM
Yep, that were underwhelming.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on January 06, 2018, 03:31:16 PM
Gold marines... :yawn:

The Nagash battletome looks interesting though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 06, 2018, 03:33:59 PM
I'm more excited for the mention of a Thousand Sons Codex coming soon and that they'll be able to use all the AoS Tzaangor range.

Love me those Tzaangors but don't play AoS, so perfect for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 06, 2018, 03:35:41 PM
Quote from: McMordain on January 06, 2018, 03:31:16 PM
Gold marines... :yawn:

The Nagash battletome looks interesting though.

I hope arkhan or neferatas allegiances have to models come back
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on January 06, 2018, 08:49:01 PM

So it actually DID turn out to be a 3rd marine faction.   :?
Colour me extremely underwhelmed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 06, 2018, 08:56:19 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on January 06, 2018, 08:49:01 PM
So it actually DID turn out to be a 3rd marine faction.   :?
Colour me extremely underwhelmed.

And an existing chapter that got its own coxed, we were all right and we are all disappointed.  :?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on January 06, 2018, 11:31:43 PM
Quote from: YPU on January 06, 2018, 08:56:19 PM
And an existing chapter that got its own coxed, we were all right and we are all disappointed.  :?  lol

The one time we're right...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 07, 2018, 02:16:47 AM
Quote from: FionaWhite on January 06, 2018, 11:31:43 PM
The one time we're right...  :D

honestly for xenos i was hoping for necrons, for either terrain or conversion potential
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on January 07, 2018, 12:20:06 PM
40k fluff has always been a bit silly when applied to tabletop but Custodes armies running around seems a bit daft.

I’m feeling thousand sons at the moment; bought a box of Rubric marines to enjoy.

This year I would like a plastic sisters release (come on, GW!) and a set of noise marine plastics.

I don’t know why but I’m really liking 40k at the moment. Happens every couple of years. I’m glad it’s coincided with GW becoming a bit more customer focussed too. Funnily enough, I haven’t played the actual game since the very start of 3rd Edition...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 07, 2018, 12:35:57 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on January 07, 2018, 12:20:06 PM
40k fluff has always been a bit silly when applied to tabletop but Custodes armies running around seems a bit daft.

I’m feeling thousand sons at the moment; bought a box of Rubric marines to enjoy.

This year I would like a plastic sisters release (come on, GW!) and a set of noise marine plastics.

I don’t know why but I’m really liking 40k at the moment. Happens every couple of years. I’m glad it’s coincided with GW becoming a bit more customer focussed too. Funnily enough, I haven’t played the actual game since the very start of 3rd Edition...

I have a deep dislike of the idea of custodes fighting in the 41st millenium. I was OKAY with it in horus heresy games, just, but i always think that having something exist as a unit on the tabletop destroys alot of it's mistique in the setting, and gives fuel to those special gamers who only view the fluff through a filter of in game stats.

forgeworld put up a post recently asking who would win out of X unit and x character. The comments were just full of "well this has this stat and if it rolled this and had this rule it would win"  but no one saying "well ,he has the sword of x and fought at the battle of x, he's the better warrior."

I fear for the day that they bring the emperor into horus heresy games and we get a thousand gamers saying "oh he's not that powerful because on the table you can kill him with this units special rule".

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 07, 2018, 06:37:12 PM
Yes. The emporer is one they should never bring back. It would sell very well though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on January 07, 2018, 07:03:18 PM
Quote from: beefcake on January 07, 2018, 06:37:12 PM
Yes. The emporer is one they should never bring back. It would sell very well though.

 >:D

Does he have T 7 or 8? And how many attacks???

 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Corso on January 07, 2018, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on January 07, 2018, 12:20:06 PM

This year I would like a plastic sisters release (come on, GW!) and a set of noise marine plastics.


That would really be nice. Should have been released before the custodes, in my opinion. There are too many golden armoured warriors around gw! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 07, 2018, 07:13:09 PM
Quote from: Corso on January 07, 2018, 07:06:34 PM
That would really be nice. Should have been released before the custodes, in my opinion. There are too many golden armoured warriors around gw! lol


There are too many space Marines or space marines-like armies
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on January 07, 2018, 07:55:36 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on January 07, 2018, 12:20:06 PM
40k fluff has always been a bit silly when applied to tabletop but Custodes armies running around seems a bit daft.

This year I would like a plastic sisters release (come on, GW!) and a set of noise marine plastics.

My sentiments exactly.

A new marine army before sisters, orks, tau, necrons...galling to say the least.

And yes I'd love an emporers children codex but it can wait.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on January 07, 2018, 08:16:20 PM
Next up, Custodes Primaris!
Then some traitor Custodes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 07, 2018, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on January 07, 2018, 08:16:20 PM
Next up, Custodes Primaris!
Then some traitor Custodes.

i think traitor primaris based on fabius bile will happen. custodes are literally incorruptible
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 07, 2018, 08:29:47 PM
Quote from: DivisMal on January 07, 2018, 07:03:18 PM
>:D

Does he have T 7 or 8? And how many attacks???

 lol lol lol

God fucking dammit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on January 07, 2018, 08:57:48 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on January 07, 2018, 08:16:20 PM
Next up, Custodes Primaris!
Then some traitor Custodes.

My call: Custodes Grey Knights. Protecting the Emperor from Demonic/Psychic assiassins.

These will open the market for the Custodes Grey Knights army.

First releases:

Custodes Grey Knights and Custodes Grey Knight Terminators

Then within the next few months : Custodes Grey Knights Dreadknights!!!

Fuckityfuck! And thereafter a completely new army: Custodes Grey Knights Primaris!

Led by no one else but Da EMPRAH himself!

Whoooooo ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on January 08, 2018, 12:54:51 AM
Quote from: Corso on January 07, 2018, 07:06:34 PM
That would really be nice. Should have been released before the custodes, in my opinion. There are too many golden armoured warriors around gw! lol

Wait till 'Pimp My Space Marine' hits YouTube.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 08, 2018, 03:48:09 AM
When does Gang War 2 come for Necromunda?
I have decided to indulge myself with this game.
I don’t know why.

On another note, I had to file a PayPal dispute with forgeworld who didn’t respond to a missing Beastmen Mercenary. Not a word. And in another few days, they’ll have to pay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on January 08, 2018, 04:49:25 AM
Necromunda will supposedly receive an update once per quarter. House Orlock will be first IIRC.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 08, 2018, 10:04:19 AM
Quote from: Scurv on January 07, 2018, 11:40:46 PM
This is an upside of a homebrew system. Wen I add a faction one is always happy with the choice.

Solo gamer?  ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 08, 2018, 05:02:08 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 07, 2018, 11:40:46 PM
This is an upside of a homebrew system. Wen I add a faction one is always happy with the choice.
Quoted for truth! The point goes even wider I think. For example, I'd say the Ironsleet hombres' Green Mechanicvm and Thorn Moons stuff is the most exciting development of 40k I've yet seen. Not a homebrew system as such, but amazing creativity.

(Link for those who don't follow the blog: https://ironsleet.com/2016/06/19/the-bio-pilgrymme-part-iii-enter-arch-magos-biologis-sverre-arrheniuss/ (https://ironsleet.com/2016/06/19/the-bio-pilgrymme-part-iii-enter-arch-magos-biologis-sverre-arrheniuss/)  )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 08, 2018, 05:52:02 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 08, 2018, 11:07:41 AM
just do all the painting

aaannnndddd in other news

Who is in the photo of the line up for the opening of the first GW store?

http://londonist.com/london/features/the-gaming-dynasty-that-began-in-a-west-london-flat

(https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2018/01/i730/gw_1978.jpg)

Is that Ronnie Renton?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 08, 2018, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: lord marcus on January 08, 2018, 05:52:02 PM
Is that Ronnie Renton?

It wouldn't be unlikely. He is ex gw.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 08, 2018, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: nic-e on January 08, 2018, 06:16:53 PM
It wouldn't be unlikely. He is ex gw.

I am aware. I consider him a friend, even though I haven't been able to get up to gen con or adepticon to see him in years. We keep in touch though. Solid bloke, good company he runs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 08, 2018, 09:28:19 PM
Quote from: Scurv on January 08, 2018, 11:07:41 AM

Who is in the photo of the line up for the opening of the first GW store?


Is that the cast of 'Gregory's Girl'?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on January 08, 2018, 10:46:33 PM
Quote from: lord marcus on January 07, 2018, 08:17:14 PM
i think traitor primaris based on fabius bile will happen. custodes are literally incorruptible

Oh yeah, I actually recall reading some kind of mention about that earlier.
At least one more marine army coming up then.


Quote from: DivisMal on January 07, 2018, 08:57:48 PM
My call: Custodes Grey Knights. Protecting the Emperor from Demonic/Psychic assiassins.

These will open the market for the Custodes Grey Knights army.

First releases:

Custodes Grey Knights and Custodes Grey Knight Terminators

Then within the next few months : Custodes Grey Knights Dreadknights!!!

Fuckityfuck! And thereafter a completely new army: Custodes Grey Knights Primaris!

Led by no one else but Da EMPRAH himself!

Whoooooo ;D

Hey, Forge World already makes Horus (and to my understanding he's also got stats in one of the HH rulebooks?) so not bringing out the Emperor for those 40'000+ point games would make him look somewhat out of place.
Not so sure on the Grey Custodes however...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 10, 2018, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: lord marcus on January 08, 2018, 05:52:02 PM
Is that Ronnie Renton?

And, more important, who of those are still into the hobby?  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 10, 2018, 10:18:00 PM
John Lennon is standing first in the line..so not all of them for sure.. 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on January 11, 2018, 03:25:09 AM
Finally got my Necromunda Gor today. Nice mini.
He took so long I’d lodged a PayPal dispute.  >:(
Oh well; expensive resin bugger showed up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 17, 2018, 10:58:50 AM
This could be interesting:

Quote
German game publisher and distributor Pegasus Spiele announced a licensing agreement with Games Workshop to produce new games based in the world of enduring fantasy board game Talisman.

Pegasus Spiele will release four games set in the fantasy world of Talisman beginning later this year. The first will be a children’s game, designed by Lukas Zach and Michael Palm (BANG! The Dice Game, Aventuria: Adventure Card Game, The Dwarves), released in the second half of 2018. The other three games include an expandable card game, a role playing game, and a dice game. Release dates were not announced.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/39371/pegasus-spiele-licenses-world-talisman?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook (https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/39371/pegasus-spiele-licenses-world-talisman?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on January 17, 2018, 10:06:00 PM
Necromunda got me in the mood for some more GW modelling and painting shenanigans lately. First time building marines in a few years and my god they’ve come a long way... the deathwatch guys I’m making are fantastic.

Only downsides are I HATE removing mould lines and if you do it badly on power armour it really shows :/

And also the bigger bases they’re putting everyone on means I’m having to put more effort into my bases which I’ve never enjoyed!

Apart from that, I think GW have finally won me back...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 18, 2018, 01:42:12 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on January 17, 2018, 10:58:50 AM
This could be interesting:

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/39371/pegasus-spiele-licenses-world-talisman?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook (https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/39371/pegasus-spiele-licenses-world-talisman?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook)

EDIT: Nevermind - read your link as 40K related, and it's not...soooo, nevermind. :D

They had 40K Talisman from FFG when it was out, so this isn't a big surprise.  Probably re-boxing it, or doing a very "not" copy of it. The game was called "Relic"

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jGl6ZYDSOe8/UUgG3Tk4NVI/AAAAAAAAA5c/NbThhcJVmiw/s1600/Warhammer+40k+relic+board+game+layout.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 18, 2018, 01:52:21 PM
That's pretty darn colourful for a representation of the grim darkness of the far future... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 18, 2018, 04:38:48 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 18, 2018, 01:42:12 PM
They had 40K Talisman from FFG when it was out, so this isn't a big surprise.  Probably re-boxing it, or doing a very "not" copy of it. The game was called "Relic"

Also known as 'Space Ludo'....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on January 18, 2018, 05:45:56 PM
I have to be honest, the new marines are really beautiful. But overall I think I'm past GW stuff. That said, I'd LOVE to get one marine and paint it up, preferably a Mk6 pointy beak. I wish I had bought that anniversary mini from a few years back.... None of my mates in Nederland play 40k either otherwise I'd hit them up to trade for one marine... Oh well....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on January 18, 2018, 06:00:40 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on January 18, 2018, 05:45:56 PM
I have to be honest, the new marines are really beautiful. But overall I think I'm past GW stuff. That said, I'd LOVE to get one marine and paint it up, preferably a Mk6 pointy beak. I wish I had bought that anniversary mini from a few years back.... None of my mates in Nederland play 40k either otherwise I'd hit them up to trade for one marine... Oh well....

That was exactly my thinking, now a couple of weeks later I’ve bought about 20 marines and have a couple of characters on mail order XD
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 26, 2018, 09:17:41 AM
Aelven BT on the way. Christ do I cringe at the voice acting in those GW vids though.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/26/new-codexes-factions-our-heroes-and-more-breaking-news-from-the-las-vegas-opengw-homepage-post-1/?utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_campaign=c7d0ef8591-GW_26th_January_LVO_GB&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-c7d0ef8591-114372085 (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/26/new-codexes-factions-our-heroes-and-more-breaking-news-from-the-las-vegas-opengw-homepage-post-1/?utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_campaign=c7d0ef8591-GW_26th_January_LVO_GB&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-c7d0ef8591-114372085)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on January 26, 2018, 09:48:16 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on January 26, 2018, 09:17:41 AM
I cringe at the voice acting in those GW vids though

You'd think they'd be able to afford videos with decent actors and production which doesn't result in such a noisy voice track...

Good news on the witch elf battletome, as long as it comes with new units that is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on January 26, 2018, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: boneio on January 26, 2018, 09:48:16 AM
You'd think they'd be able to afford videos with decent actors and production which doesn't result in such a noisy voice track...

Good news on the witch elf battletome, as long as it comes with new units that is.

The voice actors always seem to be over acting and it's just awful. I guess they use the same few. I reckon this is the same woman who did the awful Necromunda voice over.

I think there are few new models to go along with this release. It'll partially quieten the 'make Aelves' demands on Facebook but of course people won't be happy until dark, high and wood elves get updated fully.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on January 26, 2018, 12:30:11 PM
Yes there's a video out now with new models, including what look like medusae archers.

Suppose it makes sense that they'd update Khaine first, given GWs policy of pursuing the more unique (I.e copyrightable) elements of their setting.
Sadly that means we can't expect updates to the more generic elves
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lord marcus on January 26, 2018, 05:06:19 PM
Quote from: boneio on January 26, 2018, 12:30:11 PM
Yes there's a video out now with new models, including what look like medusae archers.

Suppose it makes sense that they'd update Khaine first, given GWs policy of pursuing the more unique (I.e copyrightable) elements of their setting.
Sadly that means we can't expect updates to the more generic elves

Link?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 26, 2018, 09:19:01 PM
Just look up LVO or "Daughters of Khaine".  And yes I think GW will continue its push to make more unique units/races so "normal" stuff will disappear quickly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 27, 2018, 12:40:47 PM
Quote from: boneio on January 26, 2018, 12:30:11 PM
Sadly that means we can't expect updates to the more generic elves

And into that breach, Oathmark has been stepping... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 27, 2018, 03:37:52 PM
Those new elves are full of useful bits for Blanchitsu-style 40k conversions!  I predict a number of serpent-bodied tech-priests will soon appear in the 41st millennium.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on January 27, 2018, 08:19:37 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on January 27, 2018, 03:37:52 PM
Those new elves are full of useful bits for Blanchitsu-style 40k conversions!  I predict a number of serpent-bodied tech-priests will soon appear in the 41st millennium.





True dat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 29, 2018, 07:22:49 PM
I am waiting for Slaaneshian demons.

Medusa from Cauldron kit is prohibitive expensive :)

BTW: Have you seen n ew Eisenhorn?
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27067573_10156084348713236_1686419233349610100_n.jpg?oh=142a722915094a9f97151b4a4e9690c0&oe=5B1DD57E)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on January 29, 2018, 08:01:53 PM
Yep, And i do want one. (Or two, to convert one.)

(https://i.imgur.com/7ATt38M.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andym on January 30, 2018, 09:24:36 AM
Quote from: nic-e on January 29, 2018, 08:01:53 PM
Yep, And i do want one. (Or two, to convert one.)

(https://i.imgur.com/7ATt38M.jpg)

That’s a cracking idea for games! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on January 30, 2018, 10:59:38 AM
Isn't that just unpainted hatred with a 1cp cost?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on January 31, 2018, 10:17:32 AM
I would play that card constantly. with how lazy 40k players are painting it'll break the game!  lol

also loving eisenhorn. so I may try and grab him
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 01, 2018, 06:46:51 PM
Ahem....

SQUATS ARE BACK!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc0-8BBkkq4
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on February 01, 2018, 06:54:15 PM
I'm half expecting that to turn out to be a steroid-filled Ratling.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on February 01, 2018, 06:57:50 PM
I think the other two clocks will cause more meltdowns.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 01, 2018, 08:20:42 PM
They are exploring ancient themes with new Necro. Abhuman ex guardsmen Half horn, now Squat.  I am half expecting Ambulls!

Whats next Space marines searching some punkt at checkpoints ? :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 01, 2018, 08:38:53 PM
Soooo... squat character for Necromunda as a teaser followed by full 40K release later?

How many people awaiting the return of squats won't be happy I wonder?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 01, 2018, 08:52:20 PM
For some reason, I'm amused that I recognize those as cheap Ikea clocks and know they actually don't have any glass in them. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 01, 2018, 09:38:00 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 01, 2018, 08:20:42 PM
They are exploring ancient themes with new Necro. Abhuman ex guardsmen Half horn, now Squat.  I am half expecting Ambulls!

Whats next Space marines searching some punkt at checkpoints ? :P

All I know is, GW have been getting my money with Necromunda, the first time in almost a decade they’ve seen me pay anything to them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on February 02, 2018, 08:10:48 AM
That movie made me smile. Their new advertisement strategy is really funny, and since some time I really do like what they publish. The comeback of squats and beastmen is very well appreciated!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 02, 2018, 10:11:42 AM
All I took out of that ad is that they're seeking to placate the masses by releasing a single model instead of a larger gang.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on February 02, 2018, 11:47:27 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on February 02, 2018, 10:11:42 AM
All I took out of that ad is that they're seeking to placate the masses by releasing a single model instead of a larger gang.

Yey, we're getting diddly-squat
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on February 02, 2018, 05:13:20 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on February 02, 2018, 10:11:42 AM
All I took out of that ad is that they're seeking to placate the masses by releasing a single model instead of a larger gang.

There are "masses" who want them to bring back the Squats?

A very small group of highly vocal fans is probably closer to the truth. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 02, 2018, 07:45:21 PM
Quote from: Derek H on February 02, 2018, 05:13:20 PM
There are "masses" who want them to bring back the Squats?

A very small group of highly vocal fans is probably closer to the truth. 

I'd say there'sa very small group of non vocal fans who have been getting on with collecting squat armies, and there's a roaring mass of memelords who think it's endlessly funny to ask GW about the squats, and after so many years the joke has worn thin enough the GW is killing it.

Hell, even the meme of resetting the squat clock comes from the community as a response to people making jokes about squats, and GW have LITERALLY SMASHED THE CLOCK, all to get people to bloody well shut up!  lol

I think the mini will be wonderful and sell like hot cakes in the arctic tho, as people will desperatley want it just for the sheer humour of finally having a squat.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 02, 2018, 07:58:20 PM
Quote from: Derek H on February 02, 2018, 05:13:20 PM
There are "masses" who want them to bring back the Squats?

A very small group of highly vocal fans is probably closer to the truth. 

And half of them are people who just want squats to return without any intention of buying anything released after 1991.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 02, 2018, 10:55:46 PM
Quote from: Scurv on February 02, 2018, 09:56:51 PM
fans blow
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 02, 2018, 11:06:43 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 02, 2018, 07:58:20 PM
And half of them are people who just want squats to return without any intention of buying anything released after 1991.

I honestly think they would sell like hotcakes. They could do a release like the genestealer cult, not masses of figures but endless appeal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 03, 2018, 01:20:36 AM
Squats as a separate Guard unit (Or whatever they are calling the imperial guard these days).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on February 03, 2018, 10:43:42 AM
Years ago who'd have thought they'd bring back 'Stealer Cult as a full army so anything is possible when it comes to other forgotten gems thoughout the year to make a come back.

Me, I was over the moon when they did the Beastmen Bounty Hunter (Even at £20) so if they are bringing back a Squat even if it will just be only a single release I'm still chuffed as I'd rather have the option of buying it than not.

Big (Ha!) Squat fan and even had my own range of Evil Space Dorfs sculpted and I'd still happy to see a new GW Squat :)

Now I just need plastic Noise Marines in the RT style and they can have all my monies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on February 03, 2018, 12:28:39 PM
This is back out again, I really am glad they decided to release it once more, it's a nice model
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on February 03, 2018, 01:30:42 PM
Ooh I'm getting that building. Lovely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on February 03, 2018, 05:45:23 PM
Got an email from Wayland today with a pre-order of the new GW plastic zombies.

I've been waiting for this for so long...

Anyone got any teaser pics of what they look like?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 03, 2018, 05:54:54 PM
Prepare yourself!*

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Deadwalkers-Zombies-2018 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Deadwalkers-Zombies-2018)





* for disappointment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on February 03, 2018, 06:00:39 PM
I can't believe they are still trying to sell those misshapen horrors (and not in a good way)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 03, 2018, 06:01:03 PM
 :-I

really?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 03, 2018, 06:24:52 PM
Are we permitted to have Necromunda thread since game was released ?

Few previevs from weekender: Only two models but lots of plans

Escher weapons - 3 sets . No boltguns but 2 stubbers one left hand gas blower and many plasma melta and nedler guns and pistols
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27752237_10156327980431282_3010117314442981774_n.jpg?oh=0faf99557784b8bc45f3947a0afee081&oe=5B16BC20)


And 3 concept art for new guild factions
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27545575_10156328167341282_839447208355878660_n.jpg?oh=9ca8b71878cb0bb75c237a851d5d687e&oe=5ADF3FCF)
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27459760_10156328167101282_5348697551422494559_n.jpg?oh=ee2bb3af43d83d097bda3d18e2de282f&oe=5B199D4A)
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27458913_10156328166426282_1694173027297717423_n.jpg?oh=143c6dd3d27ca3e21a308b67fd5d2cce&oe=5AE65D3E)

Planned settings:
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27331938_10156098236373236_5643051340517896728_n.jpg?oh=55e7bd07e1b9f760d01037cd061ca92a&oe=5AD889F9)
Factions
(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/27368498_1698024053551517_5296731866714614189_o.jpg?oh=0435448c14f48a19541cbf56f123232b&oe=5AD95F69)


And new minis on official page
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/03/news-horus-heresy-necromunda-weekendergw-homepage-post-1/


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on February 03, 2018, 06:40:02 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on February 03, 2018, 06:00:39 PM
I can't believe they are still trying to sell those misshapen horrors (and not in a good way)

Gutted!

I actually thought they were going to bring out some new undead miniatures. Those zombies must be the best part of 20 years old now. Very very disappointed.  :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 03, 2018, 07:54:49 PM
So they'll be wrecking Necromunda with a new version of Spyrers soon - gotcha.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 04, 2018, 02:15:21 AM
I'd like to see the Bull Gorg fluff come back (unless it already has?) and a mini to go with him. He was always a favourite bit of Necromunda fluff for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on February 04, 2018, 02:17:47 AM
That Necromunda stuff looks great but the zombies get more pitiful every time I see them.  The corpse cart is such a nice looking model and surrounding it with those is liking pooping in your tuba.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 04, 2018, 10:46:15 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/o9x2GXp.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on February 04, 2018, 11:01:48 AM
Nice model, nice painting, but too strong a fantasy vibe for my taste these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on February 04, 2018, 11:43:56 AM
The squat looks pretty good, but I’m very much excited about the plans for Necromunda. Sounds like it will be a major production line in the future.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 04, 2018, 04:48:32 PM
Some nice stuff.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/03/news-horus-heresy-necromunda-weekendergw-homepage-post-1/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/03/news-horus-heresy-necromunda-weekendergw-homepage-post-1/)

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/SquatMini-Feb03-Content24Ado.jpg)

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/SlagmystMini-Feb03-Content23Agf.jpg)

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/OrlockBossWithDog-Feb03-Content28sf.jpg)

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/EscherHuntress-Feb03-Content26dw.jpg)

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Termite-Feb03-Content2so.jpg)

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Landspeeder-Feb03-Content4yz.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 04, 2018, 05:07:42 PM
What bugs me about that squat is the 'action figure' pose, with a big lump (apparently weightless) something in each hand like it's completely not awkward and the most natural thing in the world. Why? Yes, the proportions of GW dwarves gives them a big bulbous belly and it creates sculpting challenges in how a model can hold an item across their body, but surely the sculptors are good enough to rise to said challenges.

He's (or maybe she's ... 'It's the beard') stood in a relatively passive stance. Why the need to hold a boltgun in one hand and an oversized hammer in the other at the same time? Why not have the subject holding a single weapon (or tool) in a realistic way? Or (shock horror) not holding anything at all? Thumbs hooked into belt with weapons slung would have looked great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 04, 2018, 05:17:56 PM
Re: Scurv: Yeah, GW have realised that middle aged man-children (I proudly include myself in this group) are just as much if not more likely to spunk cash on the hobby as kids are, and are now fully catering to that market!

Re: the new pics: That gribbly looking bounty hunter is cool, but nothing that couldn't be kitbashed already. Like the Orlock and Escher a lot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on February 04, 2018, 05:22:28 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Landspeeder-Feb03-Content4yz.jpg)


"Brother Adonai... didn't we have a flight control display deck in this thing a moment ago?"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 04, 2018, 05:39:07 PM
Love the retro-speeder.  Unfortunately it souns like it'll be a Warhammer World exclusive and thus is out of the question for US buyers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FunkyBrush on February 04, 2018, 06:37:06 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 04, 2018, 04:48:32 PM

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/SlagmystMini-Feb03-Content23Agf.jpg)


I like this guy. Is he wearing a Tau drone for a hat?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on February 04, 2018, 06:43:08 PM
Some of the upcoming Necromunda stuff sounds good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 04, 2018, 10:03:30 PM
That hatted chap looks pleasingly like one of the bounty hunters from The Empire Strikes Back.

 
Quote from: Cubs on February 04, 2018, 05:07:42 PM
Why not have the subject holding a single weapon (or tool) in a realistic way? Or (shock horror) not holding anything at all? Thumbs hooked into belt with weapons slung would have looked great.

Couldn't agree more. We've seen very little of that since the original Harboth - but how good was that cross-armed pose compared with all the weapon-brandishing that's followed?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on February 04, 2018, 10:49:14 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on February 04, 2018, 10:03:30 PM
That hatted chap looks pleasingly like one of the bounty hunters from The Empire Strikes Back.

I like him also, but I can't shake the impression that his hat is made from a Tau drone?

The water guild is reminiscent of the Tau also, but like them I do!

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on February 05, 2018, 05:36:41 AM
My thoughts are as follows:

Pros:
- Variety of gang types slated.

- Concept of npc minis.

- Call backs to old RT era minis with the beastman, squat and(apparently) a ratling cook with power ladle in the pipeline!

- Plastic kits supported by resin weapons packs.

- Each gang having its own pet/beast.


Cons:
- Not liking the staggered release format, nobody I know wants to get invested in necromunda at all until all 6 house gangs are released.

- The guilders look too high tech and not 40k enough.

- Love the sculpts for the most part although most seem to be not very convertable, the joins especially are bullshit and from the looks of it the resin minis are all justtwo/three piece minis.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on February 05, 2018, 11:18:47 AM
I love how they still use mills bombs 40,000 years into the future
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 05, 2018, 01:53:23 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on February 05, 2018, 05:36:41 AM

- Not liking the staggered release format, nobody I know wants to get invested in necromunda at all until all 6 house gangs are released.


It's just following in the same vein as Blood Bowl and Shadespire. I suspect if they spunked everything out in one go the game would die quicker though. Gradual releases increases their ability to keep people on the hook which these days is especially important when there's so much competition. Might also be an issue of manufacturing capability and not wanting to clog up schedules. I'm sure I read somewhere, could have been TGA Community that GW have been having problems at that end. Still, halfway there with the gangs.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 05, 2018, 09:25:04 PM
Yeah, I'm not getting into Necromunda, but it's based on the rather silly staggered release - coupled with numerous Gang War books coming out every couple of months to support each gang.  I simply won't be supporting that kind of thing unless a large proper rulebook combination is planned.  The books are priced rather much for what they are also, meaning within 12-18 months you could be "required" (more or less) to have a half dozen $30 just to play a game of Necromunda like you used to.  Really not a fan of that approach at all.

If you want to stretch out model releases that's fine...but the constant flow of books is a massive turn off for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 05, 2018, 09:51:25 PM
Quote from: Scurv on February 04, 2018, 05:00:03 PM
Someone at GW figured out Nostalgia sells by the look of things.

I imagine it like this.

On his first day, Mr rountree sat at his new desk, straightened his tie, and looked at the list he had had compiled of every request made by warhammer fans over the last 20 years.

He called in the design team and without turing from the window he said "Make them."

"Which...which ones?" they asked fearfully.

rountree spins in his chair ...
"ALL OF THEM. "

the design team run out in terror, pencils and sculpting tools waving frantically.

Rountree looks down at the homepage of DAKKADAKKA ,he sees the thousand comments moaning.A smile crosses his face.

"Those bastards want warhammer?I'll give them all the warhammer they can take..."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 05, 2018, 09:57:40 PM
I don't have a problem with gradual releases ( Shadespire e.g. ). That way the game will be longer available and I cab pick and choose what to buy and what not to buy. I wish they'd make the old Necromunda gangs available - made to order or last chance to buy - though. Really like the new models but 10+ parts a model is ( way ) too much for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 06, 2018, 04:39:17 AM
Quote from: Elbows on February 05, 2018, 09:25:04 PM
Yeah, I'm not getting into Necromunda, but it's based on the rather silly staggered release - coupled with numerous Gang War books coming out every couple of months to support each gang.  I simply won't be supporting that kind of thing unless a large proper rulebook combination is planned.  The books are priced rather much for what they are also, meaning within 12-18 months you could be "required" (more or less) to have a half dozen $30 just to play a game of Necromunda like you used to.  Really not a fan of that approach at all.

If you want to stretch out model releases that's fine...but the constant flow of books is a massive turn off for me.
I hear ya, me too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 06, 2018, 01:46:03 PM
To release "everything" at once would be both impossible and stupid af.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on February 06, 2018, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on February 06, 2018, 01:46:03 PM
To release "everything" at once would be both impossible and stupid af.
and something no miniatures company has ever done or done successfully. but the new necromunda community demand to be spoon fed everything instantly and unrealistically.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 06, 2018, 04:32:47 PM
So, you genuinely believe GW is incapable of launching a game with a whoppin' six plastic gang kits, and (gasp) a rulebook which actually contains...all the rules?  Lose the attitude.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 06, 2018, 04:55:50 PM
They're probably just going the low-risk route to see if online interest actually pans out into sales. It makes (albeit annoying) sense to dip the toe and see how popular each release is before planning how/when/if to expand them. After all, they're trying to bring back a game that was shelved for not being profitable enough, so it's not surprising.

I agree though as a (potential) consumer. I might be tempted by nice models, but I'd be a lot more likely to invest in a game if I knew exactly what the finished product looked like. Expansions to a core game are one thing, but teasy-weasy bits and pieces don't float my boat. Presumably given the options of potentially annoying customers and risking a big loss in launching the whole thing in one go, they're going with the lesser of two weevils.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 06, 2018, 05:06:16 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 06, 2018, 04:32:47 PM
So, you genuinely believe GW is incapable of launching a game with a whoppin' six plastic gang kits, and (gasp) a rulebook which actually contains...all the rules?  Lose the attitude.

Content wise all gangs and rules would about equal a regular army launch, if that, I'd guess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 06, 2018, 07:59:20 PM
you've also got to remember that GW know gamers better than gamer think.

They know that if they launch EVERYTHING , a whole bunch of gamers will blow their load and then have to explain to their unpainted miniatures that "it's never happened before, i've just been so excited" and then the game will stagnate as everyone settles into playing the same lists over and over and they have to have huge gaps between new small releases.

SO it's far better for the game if things are staggered. A few months here and a couple of gangs , a campaign, a new setting ect ect, it means that people who want to invest in necromunda as a long term game or project will always have something to look forward to while they work on their current project, and they can afford to go all in as time goes on, not get put off by £700 of new releases.


Games workshop know you, they know deep down we all want to be teased. they've got their back to us and they're taking their bra off slowly, rather than giving it away for 20p behind the local co-op.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on February 06, 2018, 08:35:34 PM
Except people like me who want to play newcromunda but because the gangs I like aren't out yet, I'm not bothering. Doesn't mean I won't commit in future of course, but I would have thought releasing six core gangs followed by a more steady drip feed would make more sense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 06, 2018, 08:59:23 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on February 06, 2018, 01:46:03 PM
To release "everything" at once would be both impossible and stupid af.

Palladium had a bloody good go at doing that with the Robotech Kickstarter, and yes, it proved to be impossible and stupid af.


On the issue of some people wanting/expecting all the main gangs to be released at once we have to realise that GW don't necessarily have the resources we think they do. They don't have a limitless pot of funds, they don't have a vast army of designers working on projects and they don't have vast manufacturing capabilities. Necromunda is a side thing in comparison to their two core games. Design, production and manufacturing likely have to fit around the bigger things they're working on with the AoS and 40K. They've also got Shadespire and Blood Bowl on the go as well, although one of those is perhaps getting a bit more of a push at the moment. It might not be perfect for all of us but in the long run it's likely to help keep a game alive for longer.

Not so interesting story perhaps but I was looking for Shadow War Armageddon pics the other month and came across a forum post somewhere where someone mentioned that their gaming group had moved on from SWA and no one played in their area anymore. It read like SWA was years old yet it was a post made just a few months after the release of the rule set. It may have been a little stop gap game with little support but people moved on from it pretty damned quick even before the release of Necromunda to tempt them.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 06, 2018, 09:09:22 PM
Also, Specialist Games is a skunkworks who also have to make products for Bloodbowl and Adeptus Titanicus. I’m sure they’d prefer to release things faster, but probably can’t. They’ve already said some Bloodbowl teams are being done freelance by their in-house sculptors, presumably in their spare time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 06, 2018, 09:20:26 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on February 06, 2018, 09:09:22 PM
Also, Specialist Games is a skunkworks who also have to make products for Bloodbowl and Adeptus Titanicus. I’m sure they’d prefer to release things faster, but probably can’t. They’ve already said some Bloodbowl teams are being done freelance by their in-house sculptors, presumably in their spare time.

But GW have millions of Pounds and can fart out plastic sets and games at will!  ;)

Get your tin hat ready for when Adeptus Titanicus is released. I reckon there'll be a hell of a shit storm when it turns out to not be what some people expect it to be. As in it'll be Adeptus Titanicus not a full blown epic scale re-release. The fans can be their own worst enemy at times.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on February 06, 2018, 09:59:20 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 06, 2018, 08:59:23 PM
we have to realise that GW don't necessarily have the resources we think they do.

We know they don't. I don't think it's hearsay that they're over-capacity on manufacturing let alone design.

Doesn't mean they couldn't prepare all the gangs in advance and *then* release more than just two at once. The point, I suppose, is that they don't have to. They will know what works for them. Probably.

Re. Adeptus Titanicus, I concur. I'm sure it'll be a hit but I want epic not just titans so, as with all these things, there's no way GW can please all the people all the time!
But just being back in a situation where GW are doing more games than I have time/money/desire for is a good thing, I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on February 06, 2018, 10:13:17 PM
A fair chunk of the market can only run to one purchase a month and presented with two or more choices means at leaat one option doesn't get bought each month. Trickle releases one per month and each one gets bought by the faithful.

Pre-Xmas is the time to release multiple options.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 06, 2018, 10:16:41 PM
Quote from: boneio on February 06, 2018, 09:59:20 PM
They will know what works for them. Probably.

Which is likely why we're getting things released the way they are.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Braxandur on February 06, 2018, 10:46:30 PM
I'm happy with the staggerd release. People can complain about i what they want, but GW actually put together a download making it possible to use the old gangs...  so you don't really have to wait if you don't want to..

Bringing everything out in one go would kill the franchise withing a year. Games keep on being interesting as long as expenasions come out...  realeasing everything is once would be stupid...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 06, 2018, 11:10:56 PM
Indeed.
How many of those wonderful skirmish systems that have been launched on kickstarter in the last few years have mqnaged to stay on shelves?

Very very few, mostly because they gave it all away up front and didn't account for the magpie personality of most tabletop gamers.


On another note, The free warscrolls for the fireslayers are interesting. The leader of their warband is so powerful he's been given his own warscroll separate from the unit itself. If you wanted to dip your toe into AOS you could easily do it with a shadespire box and the skirmish book.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 07, 2018, 12:23:31 AM
While the near-naked dwarf look will never grow on me, I fear, it looks as if the Shadespire skaven will be quite a pleasant surprise. From that one photo, they look like very dynamic versions of the Island of Blood ones (which are great): scruffy, ragged and (relatively) non-steroidal. I'm sure there'll be one or two with knives on their helmets or whatever, but the ones shown fighting the dwarfs look really good:

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/WHUWWarbands-FyreslayersFeb5-Warband9ev.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 07, 2018, 07:47:20 AM
Wow. Looking at those dwarfs makes me want to break out singing YMCA. They are just missing the sailor.

On another note. I wonder if the release of that other skirmish game (orks and scouts, I forget the name) was brought out before necromunda because they knew people would lap it up as a necromunda stand in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on February 07, 2018, 08:25:43 AM
Fair point about the plastic kits but it doesnt change the fact lots of people are pissed about the staggered release of the books, the get you by list is a decent idea but it still doesnt change the fact that it's goig to cost a fellow a fair chunk of change to have all six house gangs in the newcromunda style.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 07, 2018, 08:48:46 AM
Quote from: beefcake on February 07, 2018, 07:47:20 AM
Wow. Looking at those dwarfs makes me want to break out singing YMCA. They are just missing the sailor.

On another note. I wonder if the release of that other skirmish game (orks and scouts, I forget the name) was brought out before necromunda because they knew people would lap it up as a necromunda stand in.

Shadow War Armageddon was definitely a stop gap release and a bit of a messed up release at that. The boxed version being discovered to be a very limited release only upon it appearing in the web store and a book release not ready to go or possibly even planned prior to that. Certainly a hiccup in GWs pretty stellar performance over the last couple of years and probably indicative of their manufacturing capability issues. I read on TGA Community that the AoS Nurgle releases this year were due last year for example!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 07, 2018, 09:02:56 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on February 07, 2018, 08:25:43 AM
Fair point about the plastic kits but it doesnt change the fact lots of people are pissed about the staggered release of the books, the get you by list is a decent idea but it still doesnt change the fact that it's goig to cost a fellow a fair chunk of change to have all six house gangs in the newcromunda style.

I can see the frustration with the gang war supplements. If each was nothing more than rules for a specific gang then whatever, but yeah when they also contain universal rules it must be a bit annoying. At least they're not essential rules for gameplay. I'd imagine that a compendium will be released at some point down the line to cash in on the 'waiters' and those late to the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on February 07, 2018, 10:53:34 AM
'' I'd imagine that a compendium will be released at some point down the line to cash in on the 'waiters' and those late to the game.''

A bit unfair to the early adopters though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2018, 11:22:25 AM
I understand staggered releases, and I can even (sort of) understand not putting the "full 3D game" rules into the starter box.

But a nice hardback with full rules for all six House gangs, and a proper set of campaign rules is what GW1 should have been. To accompany this, the other four House gangs should have been released one-a-month to get them all out by Easter. The plastic House gang kits should have all the basic weapons that you'd expect, with rare and esoteric weapons being saved for separate upgrade packs (this also maximises the use of Necromunda gangs as alternative Imperial Guard, Chaos Cultists, etc., and boosts sales of the kits).

Following on from this, there are still rare/esoteric weapon upgrade packs, a dozen gangs, and a score of hired guns, special characters, alternative sculpts, themed/narrative campaigns, weather charts, special scenarios, interactive terrain rules, and loads of additional story and background that could have been used to fuel further supplements spaced a few months apart in order to support the game.

Instead, a lot of people who might be interested see that they have to buy a load of separate stuff besides the big starter box, and then might not have the gangs they want out yet, and then see that weapons and ganger types are still not fully released, and then... just wander off and forget about it.

I totally get staggered releases, but the choice of what and how to release this new edition of Necromunda is confusing and frustrating to say the least. From what I can see so far, it's done as much harm as it has good. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 07, 2018, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on February 07, 2018, 10:53:34 AM
'' I'd imagine that a compendium will be released at some point down the line to cash in on the 'waiters' and those late to the game.''

A bit unfair to the early adopters though.

Well GW will be wanting to maximise sales of stuff throughout the initial release period. I know that makes them money grabbing assholes in the eyes of some but it's what's going to keep the game turning a profit for now (GW runs as a business not a hobby). Once the main releases and extras are done with and sales start to drop off that's when I'm sure they'll make it quicker and cheaper to get into to push sales further. It's not unfair for all early adopters if people are happy with and understand the release strategy. Some are going to wait it out and see but let's remember no one's being forced to buy Necromunda.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on February 07, 2018, 01:28:37 PM
''It's not unfair for all early adopters if people are happy with and understand the release strategy.''

That's the thing though, people do understand are unhappy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on February 07, 2018, 01:43:13 PM
Quote from: boneio on February 06, 2018, 09:59:20 PM
Doesn't mean they couldn't prepare all the gangs in advance and *then* release more than just two at once.

That would be a very poor decision economics-wise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventory_theory).

(What, Argonor making a post defending GW, *gasp*?! - Well I'm still not getting back into buying their, in my opinion, grossly overpriced products, but having a major in business economics, I do 'get' some of their decisions.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 07, 2018, 04:47:55 PM
Those slayers?look aweful,the skaven remind me of the frostgrave gnolls,for some strange reason.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2018, 05:09:25 PM
I think I'm going to be buying a few of those Shadespire Skaven sets for use in Mordheim... Anybody want to buy the cards that I'll going spare off me?  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2018, 05:13:26 PM
I'll get both the Shadespire gangs ( Dwarf & Skaven ). I like the game, like to try out new gangs, they're dead cheap when ordered from Wayland and as the models are snapfits ( 3 - 4 parts ) they will surely get used. Were they the standard 10+ parts per model sprues, I'd probably pass or only buy the basic set and use my own proxy models...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on February 07, 2018, 08:53:55 PM
Quote from: Argonor on February 07, 2018, 01:43:13 PM
That would be a very poor decision economics-wise (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inventory_theory).

(What, Argonor making a post defending GW, *gasp*?! - Well I'm still not getting back into buying their, in my opinion, grossly overpriced products, but having a major in business economics, I do 'get' some of their decisions.)

Fair point, there, thank you.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on February 07, 2018, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on February 07, 2018, 11:22:25 AM
I understand staggered releases, and I can even (sort of) understand not putting the "full 3D game" rules into the starter box.

But a nice hardback with full rules for all six House gangs, and a proper set of campaign rules is what GW1 should have been. To accompany this, the other four House gangs should have been released one-a-month to get them all out by Easter. The plastic House gang kits should have all the basic weapons that you'd expect, with rare and esoteric weapons being saved for separate upgrade packs (this also maximises the use of Necromunda gangs as alternative Imperial Guard, Chaos Cultists, etc., and boosts sales of the kits).

Following on from this, there are still rare/esoteric weapon upgrade packs, a dozen gangs, and a score of hired guns, special characters, alternative sculpts, themed/narrative campaigns, weather charts, special scenarios, interactive terrain rules, and loads of additional story and background that could have been used to fuel further supplements spaced a few months apart in order to support the game.

Instead, a lot of people who might be interested see that they have to buy a load of separate stuff besides the big starter box, and then might not have the gangs they want out yet, and then see that weapons and ganger types are still not fully released, and then... just wander off and forget about it.

I totally get staggered releases, but the choice of what and how to release this new edition of Necromunda is confusing and frustrating to say the least. From what I can see so far, it's done as much harm as it has good. :?

Exactly this. I'm not buying Necromunda at the moment - not because the cost is much of a concern but because it feels like an incomplete game, and because yes I object to having to buy several books just to get what other manufacturers would release in one volume.
I'm not ruling out getting into it in the future but, anecdotally at least, theyre missing out on a few customers this way.

I'm not cutting off my nose to spite my face, I'm just underwhelmed at the moment with the new Necromunda.

Similarly Malign Portents - Undead are my thing, but I added up what it'd cost to buy into this release and the books, cards, dice alone are enough to buy most of an army!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 07, 2018, 09:14:19 PM
Basically what Major said.  I don't support video or PC games which do this kind of DLC-drip-feed (regardless of how commercially successful it is), and I'm unlikely to go in to a tabletop game which does the same.  That is not how you earn my business.  GW can do stuff the way they want, but I will continue to vote with my meagre wallet, no big deal.  As stated earlier, I'm likely to buy a couple boxes of Cawdor gangers to run old Necromunda (particularly if they can be substituted as Chaos Cultists for a 40K army of mine), but Necromunda had a chance to become one of my "big" projects (i.e. buy a lot, build a full table, start a local community league, etc.) and it's no longer being considered.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 07, 2018, 10:01:51 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on February 07, 2018, 10:53:34 AM
'' I'd imagine that a compendium will be released at some point down the line to cash in on the 'waiters' and those late to the game.''

A bit unfair to the early adopters though.

Early adopters generally pay a premium to be early adopters though.

In a world of regular deep discount sales (e.g. buying a newly released PC game vs waiting for a Steam sale) and games being incomplete at launch, that's something that's more and more generally acknowledged.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 07, 2018, 10:07:58 PM
Quote from: boneio on February 07, 2018, 09:01:06 PM


Similarly Malign Portents - Undead are my thing, but I added up what it'd cost to buy into this release and the books, cards, dice alone are enough to buy most of an army!

Really?

Cus i'm looking at the website now and even if you went all in on the accessories, the bundle for that is only £37.50 . That's the book, dice, measuring template and cards.
If you add the dead marshall that takes you to just under £60 . Not a small amount but not an army by any stretch, and you've still got a fair bit to add into your games.

hell, throw the undead battletome in and you you're not even at £80 .

It's not cheap, but that's two books a deck of cards a set of dice a temple and a plastic character. you aren't exactly getting sod all for your money , and if you wanted to engage in the malign portents stuff you really only need to book.

For that much you COULD but a start collecting box and a couple of extra boxes of skeletons , but it's not an army worthy of Shyish.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 07, 2018, 10:12:09 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on February 07, 2018, 10:01:51 PM
Early adopters generally pay a premium to be early adopters though.

 

Sorry to doublepost but this just reminded me of something. If you wanna look at how not to do early adapter schemes, look at steamforged new game.
Wanna help us playtest our ruleset? Well you better bloody pay for the privilege and we expect results!  instead of a pdf and some paper tokens or an open table at shows, they're just selling expensive playtest boxes. sure you get the miniatures, but the premium price comes from you being the lucky boy or girl who gets to spend their evening filling in a pros and cons chart for them!

And all for only £120!!! Isn't that great! Do some work for us AND pay for the privilege!

So say what you want about the necromunda release model, at least GW playtest things before making you pay for them (even if they aren't always the best at it!)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on February 08, 2018, 08:43:34 AM
Just saw a guy answering questions on 4chan about the new gang war 2(he bought a copy at the weekender) some points:

Pros:
 - Three different profiles for bounty hunters, one is clearly a squat suitable profile

 - Expanded weapon list with stats.

 - Rules for hangers on/hired goons.

 -  Many Dramatis personae

Cons:

 - No new trading list if i'm reading things correctly, so while their is rules for a bolter for example, their is no way to actually buy one as their is no price/rarity listing.

- The above means that hired goons/bounty hunters aren't as good/varied as they could be
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 08, 2018, 09:30:15 AM
Quote from: nic-e on February 07, 2018, 10:07:58 PM
Really?

Cus i'm looking at the website now and even if you went all in on the accessories, the bundle for that is only £37.50 . That's the book, dice, measuring template and cards.

...and if you wanted to engage in the malign portents stuff you really only need to book.


Yep, a mere £12 if you shop at the right places will get you the book. The only thing that you really could do with adding onto that to get the most out of the campaign rules is a harbinger model but for some people £16 seems to still be considered an armies worth of cash.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 08, 2018, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 08, 2018, 09:30:15 AM
but for some people £16 seems to still be considered an armies worth of cash.

For some wargamers, it'll always be 1987.  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 08, 2018, 11:15:54 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on February 08, 2018, 10:42:49 AM
For some wargamers, it'll always be 1987.  :P

 lol

It can take a while to drop old mindsets. I remember being shocked at £6 for a 3 figure blister back in 2001. And let's not forget that people were bitching in 1987 about the cost of models and how these new kids just accept whatever GW put out.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 08, 2018, 10:38:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/g8LoOiK.jpg)

I'm excited for this one.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on February 09, 2018, 12:13:43 AM
Yeah I'm only really moaning because I can't afford/justify to buy all of this month's releases  lol
Skullvane Manse is just great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 09, 2018, 02:56:40 PM
Hired guns for Necromunda by FW.

(https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99560599003_NecromundaHiredGuns01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 09, 2018, 03:03:33 PM
I still can't get over how bad the pistol arm is on the tall male scummer. The sculptor needed to study anatomy a bit more before being thrust out into the world as a GW/FW sculptor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 09, 2018, 03:09:39 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on February 09, 2018, 03:03:33 PM
I still can't get over how bad the pistol arm is on the tall male scummer. The sculptor needed to study anatomy a bit more before being thrust out into the world as a GW/FW sculptor.

Some FW sculpts can be a bit ropey. I thought the Blood Bowl stuff from recent times was a bit rough.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 09, 2018, 03:16:43 PM
That is true.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on February 09, 2018, 05:00:47 PM
Not a fan of that arm either- It could be the angle of the photo though?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 09, 2018, 05:05:41 PM
There's a 360 spin on the FW site, even worse from the rear. It's a common digi-sculpt rookie mistake, lazily rotating the arm from the wrong place - in this case somewhere on the ribcage. There doesn't appear to be any movement of the shoulder either, something GW figures don't often have as they're mostly modelled in rigid armour and shoulder movement is never factored in, but should have been done in this case.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 09, 2018, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: nic-e on February 08, 2018, 10:38:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/g8LoOiK.jpg)

I'm excited for this one.


 lol

could use more skullz tho

 ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 10, 2018, 01:55:14 AM
I reckon get rid of the roof. Makes the building look crap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 11, 2018, 07:36:35 PM
Made to order next week.

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Preview-Feb11-NecroMTO4e-484x500.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 11, 2018, 07:44:06 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 11, 2018, 07:36:35 PM
Made to order next week.

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Preview-Feb11-NecroMTO4e-484x500.jpg)

OOF, They have not aged well.
I don't remember Kal Jericho being so so ugly.
and mad donna seems to have aged like a fine cheese, in that she looks melted.
Maybe it's just the painjobs but damn those are some faces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 11, 2018, 10:29:46 PM
Missed them the first time around. Hopefully they will be "affordable", as in, not the 15 pounds they ask for a single stadard character these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on February 11, 2018, 10:54:26 PM
Quote from: nic-e on February 11, 2018, 07:44:06 PM
Maybe it's just the painjobs but damn those are some faces.

Trust me; it's the paintjobs...

I've got Mad Donna and the face is way better IRL than that picture suggests. In fact, even the original 'official'  painted picture already was heaps better.

(http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/3/33/MadDonnaMiniature.gif)

Why they downgraded is anybody's guess...  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 12, 2018, 02:48:18 AM
Just seen a picture of the Knight of shades next to a primaris and a spirit host. Its a big figure, much bigger than the promo pictures make it look. Also looking at the costs for running the new characters in skirmish fans, you'd be starting with 3-5 man warbands, which could be fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 12, 2018, 07:19:10 AM
Sigh. I'd really like mad Donna but looking at the prices of the malign portents set I don't think I'll give it a go. $65 for a single mini, $260 for four. I wouldn't pay $65 for all four of them. So I think mad Donna will be at least $50. I may as well pay ebay scalper prices.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on February 12, 2018, 02:56:15 PM
Who's the man in tattered clothing stood behind Kal?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Braxandur on February 12, 2018, 04:15:22 PM
Quote from: MagpieJono on February 12, 2018, 02:56:15 PM
Who's the man in tattered clothing stood behind Kal?

I thought he is called Scabs, Kal his  sidekick.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 16, 2018, 10:21:00 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/14/the-slayer-returns/ I'm not sure how to feel about this...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 16, 2018, 10:30:53 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on February 16, 2018, 10:21:00 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/14/the-slayer-returns/ I'm not sure how to feel about this...

I get the impression a few people have got their knickers in a twist over this. I don't know enough about them to really care but if it means a couple of nice models get released later on that could be good, unless they end up being shonky Forge World sculpts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 16, 2018, 07:50:18 PM
games workshop just released this teaser .
The only thing they've said on facebook is "Glub Glub."

I REALLY hope this is manowar/dreadfleet and not the fishmen that were rumoured .
I'd also be very happy for it to be ghost pirates or anything other than fish people.
And bigger me that ship in the video looks nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTZAvybjv2Q
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 16, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
I'd be surprised if they're going the Manowar route. Seems a few people have had the undead pirates/wraith fleet suspicions for a little while. No idea where the initial suggestion for that came from but maybe this is it. Totally new undead straight after a battletomb release though would seem a little odd.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 16, 2018, 08:25:56 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 16, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
I'd be surprised if they're going the Manowar route. Seems a few people have had the undead pirates/wraith fleet suspicions for a little while. No idea where the initial suggestion for that came from but maybe this is it. Totally new undead straight after a battletomb release though would seem a little odd.

It was sort of a joke that too many people took seriously.
Almost all the rumour engine pics that people assumed were fish men have now been released as something else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 16, 2018, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: nic-e on February 16, 2018, 08:25:56 PM
It was sort of a joke that too many people took seriously.
Almost all the rumour engine pics that people assumed were fish men have now been released as something else.

I've heard the fishmen 'joke' quite a bit. It gets rolled out on most AoS FB page comments probably by the same guy who thinks he's being more hilarious than the 'it's more Stormcast' guy.

Over on the TGA community:

Quote
The guy (temouloun) that told us about Custodes and TS in november and about DoK has spoken:

This is an actual piece of scenery GW is going to sell, and that will have its own rules like the Sylvaneth Wyldwood. It's part of the entire Sea Aelves new range, which are absolutely stunning visually, will have tons of sea creatures to ride, one of which is MASSIVE, and unique high cost heroes with crazy design. Also forget about the Cthullu look, their design is closer to bad-ass Atlantean Spartans.

Who knows?  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 16, 2018, 09:27:01 PM
I think it's pretty safe to say it won't be a new Man O'War/Dreadfleet --- that was a collossal failure and the cause for them abandoning boxed games for quite some time (with the exception of the always-easy-to-sell-Space-Hulk).  There are still hobby shops with Dreadfleet boxed games available and that was a limited one time print of the game.  Probably the biggest flop in a long time for GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on February 16, 2018, 09:31:21 PM
Awww now I really want it to be Fishmen :D :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 16, 2018, 10:36:22 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 16, 2018, 09:27:01 PM
I think it's pretty safe to say it won't be a new Man O'War/Dreadfleet --- that was a collossal failure and the cause for them abandoning boxed games for quite some time (with the exception of the always-easy-to-sell-Space-Hulk).  There are still hobby shops with Dreadfleet boxed games available and that was a limited one time print of the game.  Probably the biggest flop in a long time for GW.

I wouldn't rule out a return to Man O'War at some point in the future (with an AoS twist of course) if GW thinks it would sell but I don't think anyone should hold their breath. Dreadfleet not being Man O'War was one issue that game had. I didn't recall it being so long until the next boxed release but yeah, 4 years until Assassinorum Execution Force came along and that was a much safer, cheaper release (in production terms). I'm not sure we're going to see anymore stand alone boxed games now though. The piecemeal release schedules of Blood Bowl, Shadespire and Necromunda look to be the new model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 16, 2018, 10:43:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZbwWtxS.jpg)

5 years ago.

"NEXT WEEK IS THE MIGHTY RELEASE OF THE AWESOME AWESHIP! BUY WHITE DWARF TO FIND OUT THE FIRST DETAILS!"

Now.

"Glub glub, Discuss."

Love it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Too Bo Coo on February 17, 2018, 02:47:19 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 16, 2018, 10:36:22 PM
I wouldn't rule out a return to Man O'War at some point in the future (with an AoS twist of course) if GW thinks it would sell but I don't think anyone should hold their breath. Dreadfleet not being Man O'War was one issue that game had. I didn't recall it being so long until the next boxed release but yeah, 4 years until Assassinorum Execution Force came along and that was a much safer, cheaper release (in production terms). I'm not sure we're going to see anymore stand alone boxed games now though. The piecemeal release schedules of Blood Bowl, Shadespire and Necromunda look to be the new model.

So, Man O War was the better game?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 17, 2018, 05:13:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFzdIaBnckg
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on February 17, 2018, 12:18:40 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 17, 2018, 02:47:19 AM
So, Man O War was the better game?

Man O' War was/is a rather fun game, of course it suffered from the same rules heavy clunkyness that most GW games had from that period.

I always loved the fact you could have boarding actions between crew and end up taking over/scuttling ships rather than the endless circling and firing broadsides which tends to happen in most ship games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 17, 2018, 12:53:59 PM
Quote from: Chico on February 17, 2018, 12:18:40 PM
Man O' War was/is a rather fun game, of course it suffered from the same rules heavy clunkyness that most GW games had from that period.

I always loved the fact you could have boarding actions between crew and end up taking over/scuttling ships rather than the endless circling and firing broadsides which tends to happen in most ship games.

You should give pirates of the spanish main a try, or any of the expansions .you can add different crews, board and command opponents ships (or scuttle your own to stop that happening!) explore islands , build or conquer on land fortifications or just pile broadside after broadside into your enemy.

The core rules are actually a very fun little naval game and if you use scenarios from other systems and ignore their own "get the gold" objective, it works as a wonderful , light, and FUN ruleset.
(plus you can still buy it INSANELY cheap on ebay.)

I was actually thinking of homebrewing a new version of Man o WAr using the base rules of Age of sigmar, No wi think I'll wait and see what GW are doing before I start hacking up systems.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 17, 2018, 04:29:44 PM
Quote from: Too Bo Coo on February 17, 2018, 02:47:19 AM
So, Man O War was the better game?

No idea how the two compare. I own Dreadfleet but have done little more than look at the components as that appears to be the main aspect of this 'hobby' for me these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 17, 2018, 04:42:00 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 17, 2018, 04:29:44 PM
No idea how the two compare. I own Dreadfleet but have done little more than look at the components as that appears to be the main aspect of this 'hobby' for me these days.

so ....wanna sell it? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 17, 2018, 08:52:29 PM
Quote from: nic-e on February 17, 2018, 04:42:00 PM
so ....wanna sell it? ;)

Funnily enough I actually have two copies and yes I do want to sell one of them.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 17, 2018, 10:05:12 PM
Hey, is there anyone out there in the UK planning on buying anything from GW this week? I want to get Mad Donna but refuse to pay NZ GW prices ($24 as opposed to 7 pounds) I'd rather deal with someone I've had transactions with before (or who has been on here forever).
Thanks

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 17, 2018, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: beefcake on February 17, 2018, 10:05:12 PM
Hey, is there anyone out there in the UK planning on buying anything from GW this week? I want to get Mad Donna but refuse to pay NZ GW prices ($24 as opposed to 7 pounds) I'd rather deal with someone I've had transactions with before (or who has been on here forever).
Thanks

If you're on facebook join the group warhammer booty sharing . It's a group of people who help grab exclusives or limited items for each other without price inflation. So far it's all gone well and there have been no rip offs, and everyone is friendly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on February 17, 2018, 11:46:33 PM
Quote from: beefcake on February 17, 2018, 10:05:12 PM
Hey, is there anyone out there in the UK planning on buying anything from GW this week? I want to get Mad Donna but refuse to pay NZ GW prices ($24 as opposed to 7 pounds) I'd rather deal with someone I've had transactions with before (or who has been on here forever).
Thanks

I'm the same.

$24 for Mad Donna, plus $20 to ship it over...  :'(

I want it as I have a mad long time urge to collect all the models released for the original Necromunda and Outlanders books but if there is anyway to get it cheaper somehow...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 19, 2018, 04:49:45 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/18/shadow-queen-unveiled/ This just in: Morathi finally learns how to put a top on. More at 11.

The regular Morathi isn't...too bad, I guess? But dang, getting the other bit to games would be a pain...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 19, 2018, 01:25:24 PM
The big one is really well sculpted...the smaller one is a lot less so.  I agree with the transportation nightmare (a continuing theme with GW uber-models unfortunately).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 19, 2018, 01:43:09 PM
I think the smaller one would always suffer to stand up next to its other form.i like the look, an elegant beautiful seductress, almost the evil twin of the sylvaneth queen. But I think perhaps she'd be better without the gold wings.

I really can't fault the giant form, it's dynamic and full of movement and terror.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 19, 2018, 03:24:02 PM
Quote
Blitz Bowl is a new way to play Blood Bowl. The teams are smaller, the games are faster but the action is just as intense, as each player seeks to distinguish themselves in the eyes of Nuffle*  in the infamous Crush recruitment rituals in fast-paced skirmish games.

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/NYToyFair-Feb17-BlitzBowlSpread2ev.jpg)

Quote
Space Marine Adventures allows 1-4 players to join forces and attempt to break into a Necron labyrinth. Choose your hero and use each character’s unique skills to battle various deadly hazards, not least of which are the Necron guardians themselves. The easy-build nature of the kits and intuitive game make it suitable for players aged 8 and over – good for anything from family games nights to a quick adventure for a regular gaming club. While this set is a great introduction to the 41st Millennium, each Space Marine in the set is also a unique and dynamic sculpt, making them great additions to an existing collection, too.

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/NYToyFair-Feb17-SMAdventuresSpread4wk.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on February 19, 2018, 05:10:16 PM
Space Marine Adventures sounds like what a family friendly Saturday morning cartoon about 40k would be called, I like that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 19, 2018, 05:40:38 PM
Looks like it comes with a velvet bag. Could be a blind token drawing mechanic ala warlord games.

A light sci to dungeon crawl in the same vein as space crusade sounds fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 19, 2018, 05:56:18 PM
From that pic it looks like the necrons are card tokens.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 19, 2018, 07:11:58 PM
yeah, I wonder if that is going to reflect in the price...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on February 19, 2018, 07:20:51 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on February 19, 2018, 05:10:16 PM
Space Marine Adventures sounds like what a family friendly Saturday morning cartoon about 40k would be called, I like that.

This week on Space marine adventures Chapter master Barney learns the benefits of friends, family and purging the enemies of mankind with nothing but a sharp piece of fruit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 19, 2018, 07:27:19 PM
Quote from: YPU on February 19, 2018, 07:11:58 PM
yeah, I wonder if that is going to reflect in the price...

I'm sure it'll be a budget price tag. These are aimed at indy stores as introductory games for newbies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 19, 2018, 07:38:30 PM
Quote from: beefcake on February 19, 2018, 05:56:18 PM
From that pic it looks like the necrons are card tokens.

What's odd is that the general snaps from the toy fair show it with necron miniatures. Could be that they just had them out for show but I'd find it weird if GW made a game where only half the units in it were actual miniatures. Not ruling it out, but it'd be odd.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on February 20, 2018, 10:54:24 AM
Blitz Bowl, bah!  >:(

They should have gone for the good old Street Bowl, smaller teams, narrower field than normal BB has.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 20, 2018, 11:28:42 AM
Quote from: pocoloco on February 20, 2018, 10:54:24 AM
Blitz Bowl, bah!  >:(

They should have gone for the good old Street Bowl, smaller teams, narrower field than normal BB has.

This does use smaller teams. Pitch looks smaller but I'm not a BB aficionado so can't be sure on that. Never heard of Street Bowl. Was that a fan made thing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on February 20, 2018, 12:08:48 PM
Dungeon bowl, wasn't it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 22, 2018, 06:00:52 PM
40K RPG on the way.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/22/wrath-and-glory-rites-of-instructiongw-homepage-post-4/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/22/wrath-and-glory-rites-of-instructiongw-homepage-post-4/)

(http://www.ulisses-us.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/SliderWnG.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 22, 2018, 06:20:36 PM
Yep, they've been promoting it for a while.  I'm not in love with the dice-pile mechanic they've chosen, but I'd play it if someone wanted to - love role-playing games and don't get to play them nearly enough.

Also, worth noting...the mechanic seems to be based on rolling numerous D6s with a 4+ needed, a 6+ providing a double "success".  Tasks would require X successes depending on difficulty etc.

After seeing that I realized that some packs of dice from the Betrayal at Calth box would fit that almost perfectly; each provides two "scores", and one "critical score".  They also sell for dirt cheap.  I've got maybe 30-40 of them.  While you could use normal D6's, a little more icons add some atmosphere.

(http://averweij.web.cern.ch/averweij/HD/D1239.JPG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on February 22, 2018, 07:04:04 PM
Imperial Guard is playable so it's got my interest. Was worried this'd be all marines all time too.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 23, 2018, 12:19:06 AM
I guess it's time to link the tales of The All-Guardsmen Party again: http://www.theallguardsmenparty.com/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on February 23, 2018, 08:28:37 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on February 23, 2018, 12:19:06 AM
I guess it's time to link the tales of The All-Guardsmen Party again: http://www.theallguardsmenparty.com/

I love that tale  :D

In fact, our current 40K DM must have taken cues from this, as we've played a year long campaign getting our characters from measly teenage boys to full fledged Space Marines (through an ork invasion of our home world, to citadels besieged by chaos), until we were finally of sufficient rank and stature to start our adventure proper...

We basically played a year long introduction!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 23, 2018, 11:36:51 AM
So i was at warhammer world the other day (got to go in the proper businessy bit, where the wars get hammered.)
While i was there I picked up a laketown house. I'm sure others have said it but after finally having one in my hand i can say that it's a REALLY nice kit.
It goes together great, lots of choice, dozens of nice little set dressing bits, and hardly a mould line to speak of.
If you do ANY kind of medival/fantasy gaming i'd strongly suggest picking one up. I got mine for age of sigmar and while it might look silly next to a stormcast, It works great as a dock side house of merchants building in one of the free cities.

It scales well with most human sized models (empire/perry miniatures/ral partha ect) and the boat makes an excellent 15mm scale boat .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 23, 2018, 02:32:21 PM
Yep, that's one of the best terrain kits they've ever put out...really solid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 23, 2018, 07:42:44 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 23, 2018, 02:32:21 PM
Yep, that's one of the best terrain kits they've ever put out...really solid.

And speaking of terrain, looks like they're realeasing a fantasy flavour of their 40k ruins.

They look nice, fairly simple but some weathering and set dressing or a bit of kit bashing could see them make a great starting point for interesting AOS ruins.

Funnily enough it was a toss up between a laketown house and the ruins of osgiliath for my AOS scenery, and now I think I might be able to bash the osgiliath ruins and the new AOS ruins together in the future.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/23/coming-march-blood-snakes-battlesuitsgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/

Oh yeah and also tau and medusa elves i guess.....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 24, 2018, 02:25:26 PM
Rules for Genestealer cults in Necromunda in the new WD.

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60020117002_GenestealerCultNecroGangENG01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on February 24, 2018, 04:28:09 PM
Ugh, I used to hate the fact that in 2nd edition you had to hunt down old WD's to get rules for models.

I hope they're not going down that route again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 24, 2018, 04:33:49 PM
They are...along with the printed books it seems (one book per gang).  Unless they do a huge compendium at some point you're looking at a dozen or more books/magazines by the time Necromunda is properly up and running.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 24, 2018, 05:17:32 PM
On the bright side i got to see the new elves at warhammer world and my god they're pretty in the flesh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on February 25, 2018, 10:34:01 AM
Quote from: Elbows on February 24, 2018, 04:33:49 PM
They are...along with the printed books it seems (one book per gang).  Unless they do a huge compendium at some point you're looking at a dozen or more books/magazines by the time Necromunda is properly up and running.
Not gougey at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 25, 2018, 01:28:15 PM
X-wing has proven that people are willing to buy everything if it means they can have a special rule or an in game bonus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 25, 2018, 01:46:38 PM
GW are awful for daring to put additional content for their games into White Dwarf. The way I'm forced to purchase their magazine and dig through back copies for additional rules and missions for games like Space Hulk, Lost Patrol and Warhammer Quest is despicable and something no one should be subjected to.

 ;)

Are we really at that point? Complaining about additional content that GW could have simply not bothered to put out at all? I know it's all about the piecemeal release of certain games and some people are all pissy about that but GW have always put new rules and content in White Dwarf. There's no pleasing some people.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on February 25, 2018, 05:42:01 PM
Well if they release them in an compendium eventually, I guess it wouldn't be that bad.

I just got flashbacks to having to browse through every bargin bin with old WD's I could just to be able to field my eldar prism tank.

I'll grant it that, since I'll keep playing the old necromunda  rules anyway, this will probably not affect me in the slightest, so I was probably being a bit of a grouch for the sake of being a bit of a grouch.

Don't get me wrong; GW is really moving in the right direction of late

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 25, 2018, 05:46:31 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 25, 2018, 01:46:38 PM
GW are awful for daring to put additional content for their games into White Dwarf. The way I'm forced to purchase their magazine and dig through back copies for additional rules and missions for games like Space Hulk, Lost Patrol and Warhammer Quest is despicable and something no one should be subjected to.

 ;)

Are we really at that point? Complaining about additional content that GW could have simply not bothered to put out at all? I know it's all about the piecemeal release of certain games and some people are all pissy about that but GW have always put new rules and content in White Dwarf. There's no pleasing some people.  ::)

In fact did necromunda itself not START in white dwarf as confrontation, and fan interest brought it out of white dwarf ? It could very well be that GW are giving these rules out so that A:people can have a little variety and fun with new rules in between book releases and B:GW know can gauge response to certain rules and edit them for future release in their own books.

And if you REALLY don't want to pay for them, they'll be uploaded online within the week.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 25, 2018, 05:48:46 PM
Simply make a list in which White Dwarf is what expansion/rule/scenario for your games, saves a lot of digging through old piles of magazines  ;).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 25, 2018, 06:22:36 PM
The new Age of sigmar ruins look very nice when put together.

Also it seems they are releasing a card tile sat similar to the 40k lunar battlescape they put out a few weeks back.
As someone who's always looking for a cheap and effective way to improve my grass mat battlefield but has no room for the sculpted table of my dreams, this could be fun!

(https://i.imgur.com/ojBCaxb.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on February 26, 2018, 01:02:56 AM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 25, 2018, 01:46:38 PM
GW are awful for daring to put additional content for their games into White Dwarf. The way I'm forced to purchase their magazine and dig through back copies for additional rules and missions for games like Space Hulk, Lost Patrol and Warhammer Quest is despicable and something no one should be subjected to.

 ;)

Are we really at that point? Complaining about additional content that GW could have simply not bothered to put out at all? I know it's all about the piecemeal release of certain games and some people are all pissy about that but GW have always put new rules and content in White Dwarf. There's no pleasing some people.  ::)


I bet that if we go back to the early days of this thread - and I’ve been around to read all of the posts - people were complaining because GW were NOT putting content in White Dwarf lol

I’ve seen it all. I think my first issue purchased of WD was sub-100, a long time ago. The content drove the magazines then; it was fun.

This issue of WD might actually be the first one I buy in something like 7-8 years...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on February 26, 2018, 07:02:38 AM
I think I stopped reading White Dwarf because there wasn't any content.  I remember the earliest issues I read (around 100) when every issue had neat stuff to add to games.  I might have to take a look.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 26, 2018, 02:38:09 PM
Quote from: nic-e on February 25, 2018, 06:22:36 PM
The new Age of sigmar ruins look very nice when put together.

Also it seems they are releasing a card tile sat similar to the 40k lunar battlescape they put out a few weeks back.
As someone who's always looking for a cheap and effective way to improve my grass mat battlefield but has no room for the sculpted table of my dreams, this could be fun!

(https://i.imgur.com/ojBCaxb.jpg)

Yeah, a double sided board. Looks quite nice. The new ruins look pretty handy but bear in mind that display board has some realmgates and other bits added to it.

From White Dwarf:

Quote
Also included in the box is a padlocked grill (leading to a mysterious dungeon, perhaps)

The same bits will be available just as a terrain set but I wondered whether that mention of a dungeon was a hint that people might want to use Warhammer Quest in conjunction with an AoS campaign. Not exactly rocket science I know but some folks need a little creative prod every now and again.

Warhammer World have a displays book out soon too. Only available at WW though so everyone get your moaning faces on.  :D

(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28276486_1862587897094015_7693349796785793221_n.jpg?oh=b8cb5290c1b599a872e5c19c13ec22a0&oe=5B1A0CAF)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on February 26, 2018, 03:06:42 PM
Oh..that books looks awesome, pity it can only be bought there  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 26, 2018, 03:24:41 PM
I suggested that they should do a nice gallery coffe table book a few months ago.

I doubt it's all my fault, but i'll take credit for that book! I just wish they'd launched it last week when i was there!


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pocoloco on February 27, 2018, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 20, 2018, 11:28:42 AM
This does use smaller teams. Pitch looks smaller but I'm not a BB aficionado so can't be sure on that. Never heard of Street Bowl. Was that a fan made thing?

Quote from: Andrew May on February 20, 2018, 12:08:48 PM
Dungeon bowl, wasn't it?

Dungeon Bowl was excellent set, especially if made more maze-like with the additional corridors and rooms from the Advanced HQ game :)

Street Bowl had narrower pitch and only seven team members on the field (IIRC). The rules game in one of the versions of Living Rulebook, once again, IIRC. The idea of Street Bowl was as the name states, a BB game played by neighbourhood gangs/teams on the streets etc places and if one succeeded to advance one's players enough, they might make a cut into a real BB team :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on February 27, 2018, 08:44:18 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 25, 2018, 01:46:38 PM
GW are awful for daring to put additional content for their games into White Dwarf. The way I'm forced to purchase their magazine and dig through back copies for additional rules and missions for games like Space Hulk, Lost Patrol and Warhammer Quest is despicable and something no one should be subjected to.

 ;)

Are we really at that point? Complaining about additional content that GW could have simply not bothered to put out at all? I know it's all about the piecemeal release of certain games and some people are all pissy about that but GW have always put new rules and content in White Dwarf. There's no pleasing some people.  ::)
Yes, but in the case of Necromunda I would argue that they have taken a full game and split it out, rather than adding to a full game. The WD genestealer rules could be excepted from this; my criticism is aimed more at the official release schedule.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on February 28, 2018, 06:39:47 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 25, 2018, 01:46:38 PM
GW are awful for daring to put additional content for their games into White Dwarf. The way I'm forced to purchase their magazine and dig through back copies for additional rules and missions for games like Space Hulk, Lost Patrol and Warhammer Quest is despicable and something no one should be subjected to.

 ;)

Are we really at that point? Complaining about additional content that GW could have simply not bothered to put out at all? I know it's all about the piecemeal release of certain games and some people are all pissy about that but GW have always put new rules and content in White Dwarf. There's no pleasing some people.  ::)

Why don’t they just put them for download on the website? Easy free PDF, like they used to with necro stuff?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on February 28, 2018, 07:51:28 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on February 28, 2018, 06:39:47 PM
Why don’t they just put them for download on the website? Easy free PDF, like they used to with necro stuff?

They're trying to sell a game? I'd assume that by the time GW put the original rules out as free PDFs the game was dead anyway. New game, new rules to some extent, they need to make money off it. I know AoS has a free rule set but that's a miniatures heavy game where most of the money will come from but Necromunda isn't going to shift anywhere near as many boxes of models per customer. Unless you're on about the Genestealer gang rules in which case they want to sell you a copy of White Dwarf (the bastards!  ;) ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 28, 2018, 09:48:35 PM
And how dare they launch a new magazine at £8 a month that gives you a new kit each issue and allows younger players to get into the hobby! The gouging bastards!

http://www.warhammer40000conquest.com/

(this looks awesome and i will be buying it. The LOTR partwork series got me into this hobby so anyone that calls this a bad move can suck the lead out of my dusty frodo.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on February 28, 2018, 10:01:22 PM
The first issue for £1.99 on it's own looks like a bargain from what you get with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on February 28, 2018, 11:29:00 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on February 28, 2018, 07:51:28 PM
They're trying to sell a game? I'd assume that by the time GW put the original rules out as free PDFs the game was dead anyway. New game, new rules to some extent, they need to make money off it. I know AoS has a free rule set but that's a miniatures heavy game where most of the money will come from but Necromunda isn't going to shift anywhere near as many boxes of models per customer. Unless you're on about the Genestealer gang rules in which case they want to sell you a copy of White Dwarf (the bastards!  ;) ).

Rules in WD.

Fine, sell WD for the week it’s out (is it still weekly?) but then put them online for people to access.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on February 28, 2018, 11:55:26 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on February 28, 2018, 11:29:00 PM
Rules in WD.

Fine, sell WD for the week it’s out (is it still weekly?) but then put them online for people to access.

No, it's monthly and has been for over a year now.

But under your plan there's no reason for people to buy white dwarf. GW have a magazine expressly for these little rules tidbits and extra content. I pick up white dwarf partly for the hammerhal adventures despite not owning the game, because i can use them in other dungeon crawls.
if you don't want to pay for them GW really have very little obligation to give them to you.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 01, 2018, 07:06:36 AM
These sorts of rules and extra fluff are the reason I used to buy WD in the first place. Saying that. I do hope they do a compendium.


Oh, and adding to this did GW bring out a rereleased version of the slaves to darkness book or warhammer world or something like that?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 01, 2018, 09:02:44 AM
Quote from: Kitsune on February 28, 2018, 11:29:00 PM
Rules in WD.

Fine, sell WD for the week it’s out (is it still weekly?) but then put them online for people to access.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do that later on. Of course they'd at least wait for the March issue to sell out fully first though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on March 01, 2018, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: voltan on February 28, 2018, 10:01:22 PM
The first issue for £1.99 on it's own looks like a bargain from what you get with it.

Heck, issue 4 with six minis and some paint for £7.99 isn't a bad deal either!

Might pick a few of these up myself.

Edit - Is this out yet? I couldn't see a release date on the link. Only 80 parts mind! I wonder how popular the one with the free measuring sticks will be?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: ErikB on March 01, 2018, 06:24:23 PM
I got a magazine kinda like the Conquest one with one easy-build intercessor attached.

My 5-year-old little boy went nuts.  He is dreaming up his own chapter, wants to paint them orange or yellow (can't decide, yet), and wants to call them Airborne Marines.  Despite that being a little oxymoronic, he's delighted and we're having fun together.

He is just adorable (sorry, proud daddy I am....)

He assembled his first marine in just a few minutes and did a find job with the knife trimming off the little bits.  I'm impressed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on March 01, 2018, 06:36:20 PM
Quote from: ErikB on March 01, 2018, 06:24:23 PM
I got a magazine kinda like the Conquest one with one easy-build intercessor attached.

My 5-year-old little boy went nuts.  He is dreaming up his own chapter, wants to paint them orange or yellow (can't decide, yet), and wants to call them Airborne Marines.  Despite that being a little oxymoronic, he's delighted and we're having fun together.

He is just adorable (sorry, proud daddy I am....)

He assembled his first marine in just a few minutes and did a find job with the knife trimming off the little bits.  I'm impressed.

This made me smile  :) My (nearly) 4 year old daughter really enjoyed a recent Warhammer World open day so I'm trying to gradually encourage her interest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 01, 2018, 09:47:51 PM
I took a family friends 8 year old son around warhammer world about a month ago. He has discovered warhammer through a friend at school and spent the entire day in the exhibition hall marvelling at everything, explaining what it all was to me (These are robots, these are warhammer!) and at the end he went straight into the store, got an easy to build box of tyranids and built them right there and then.
(tyranids because ,in his own words "they were killing those robots and they were covered in lava and woosh."

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on March 02, 2018, 04:36:09 AM
If there any way to make the Conquest magazine thing worthwhile if you're not in the UK?
Even after currency conversion, it seems like a good deal.
EDIT: Does anyone have a good (read: cheap!) UK package forwarding service they can recommend?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on March 02, 2018, 09:07:52 AM
Is it not for sale in GW shops worldwide?
Would like to pick up the odd issue, but I'm not shelling out 32 UKpounds a month for mags I don't need when buying the White Dwarf at the same time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 02, 2018, 09:16:42 AM
Quote from: nic-e on February 28, 2018, 09:48:35 PM
And how dare they launch a new magazine at £8 a month that gives you a new kit each issue and allows younger players to get into the hobby! The gouging bastards!

http://www.warhammer40000conquest.com/

(this looks awesome and i will be buying it. The LOTR partwork series got me into this hobby so anyone that calls this a bad move can suck the lead out of my dusty frodo.)

£8.00 a month wouldn't be too bad, but it's £8.00 a week for 80 weeks, which comes in at £640.

Assuming I can find it I'll likely pick up an issue or two, but issue 4 looks like the first one I'll aim for
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on March 03, 2018, 12:54:03 PM
Is this new mag out yet? Where can you get it? It's worth it for the paints
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 04, 2018, 06:45:01 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on March 03, 2018, 12:54:03 PM
Is this new mag out yet? Where can you get it? It's worth it for the paints

Not yet. I checked on the w h smiths store system the other day and we don't have a releasedate for it. The first four issues are listed as "warhammer partworks test 1-2-3-4." which might be a bit revealing. They ran a pre order system for the books partworks before that came out, but perhaps this is a test for future partworks magazines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 04, 2018, 08:11:18 PM
It seems they are doing something right  lol

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2018/mar/03/fantasy-miniatures-bring-roaring-success-to-uks-games-workshop

Quote
...The shares have risen more than 160% in the past year, giving the company a market value of £770m, more than breakdown specialist AA – one of the companies booted outed of the 250 index in the reshuffle – and the retailers Card Factory and Jacamo owner N Brown. Its current share price of £22.95 compares with £5 two years ago.

“Games Workshop fans act very much like those of Lego, as almost a cult following,” says GlobalRetail analyst Zoe Mills. “It is not cheap however, with great craftsmanship in its range, this is a hobby consumers are willing to invest in. It appeals to an older demographic than Lego, with detailed painting involved in the process. This is not for young children...”
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 04, 2018, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on March 04, 2018, 08:11:18 PM
It seems they are doing something right  lol

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2018/mar/03/fantasy-miniatures-bring-roaring-success-to-uks-games-workshop

They were one of  the top company in terms of growth on the uk stock exchange towards the end of 2017.
I find the comparison with Lego interesting, as it's a really obvious one that i'd never thought of.
(But my god i wish the guardian would change their warhammer stock image! I see that same picture from the battle for macragge on every article about GW.That was 3 editions ago!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 05, 2018, 11:13:48 AM
GW is releasing first starter box without marines!! World is going to an end.. thats official..

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 05, 2018, 12:37:59 PM
Quote from: AWu on March 05, 2018, 11:13:48 AM
GW is releasing first starter box without marines!! World is going to an end.. thats official..

You tease!  ;)

What is it? Link?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 05, 2018, 12:43:58 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on March 05, 2018, 12:37:59 PM
You tease!  ;)

What is it? Link?

Faeit212 has some pictures at least, seems to be a set called ForgeBane with Mechanicus vs Necrons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on March 05, 2018, 12:46:04 PM
Now that is interesting...  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 05, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on March 05, 2018, 12:43:58 PM
Faeit212 has some pictures at least, seems to be a set called ForgeBane with Mechanicus vs Necrons.

What's Faeit212?

Anyway, Mechanicus stuff might make sense of one of the rumor engine pics recently (part of a terrain piece).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on March 05, 2018, 01:03:13 PM
New starter set is on the Warhammer Community pages.  https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/05/forgebane-coming-soongw-homepage-post-1/

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/40kForgebane-Mar5-ForgebaneBox1eg-484x500.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 05, 2018, 01:04:48 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on March 05, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
What's Faeit212?

Anyway, Mechanicus stuff might make sense of one of the rumor engine pics recently (part of a terrain piece).

Clicky (http://natfka.blogspot.fi/2018/03/new-forgebane-box-set-necrons-vs.html)  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 05, 2018, 01:40:27 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on March 05, 2018, 01:04:48 PM
Clicky (http://natfka.blogspot.fi/2018/03/new-forgebane-box-set-necrons-vs.html)  ;)

Cheers  :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 05, 2018, 01:44:12 PM
MMMM it comes with two of those new mini knights.

I may have to buy that.Added to the ad mech start collecting box i've been telling myself i'll finish some day, i'd have a pretty substantial army!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 05, 2018, 02:06:14 PM
I really like the Armiger model, but I'm sad it currently has one weapon option.  I assume later options will exist...and at that point I think a Dark Mechanius force would be fun to do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 08, 2018, 10:20:41 PM
FAQ/Errata/Typos for Necromunda addressed (mostly).  Only took seven pages...

https://necromunda.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2018/03/Necromunda_FAQ_v1_ENG.pdf

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 09, 2018, 02:02:22 PM
Very good.. Toxin weapons are worth taking at last..
Sad part is that it was released much after Gang War 2 and does not touch problems it created..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 09, 2018, 05:25:19 PM
Yeah, on another forum people posted a list of another two dozen issues they didn't address...so maybe eventually?  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 09, 2018, 08:44:55 PM
Different weapon properties in GW2 weapons table are worst offender here..
Its pity how bad they are handling such a wonderful game.
I really dig NeoMunda despite their attempts to ruin it :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on March 09, 2018, 09:32:31 PM
Yep, its got the potential to be great but GW are working hard at ruining it, gw2 especially was a big disappointment, mostly about bounty hunters which seem to be all overpriced.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 10, 2018, 09:39:50 PM
Insanely overpriced if you ask me..

They would be rare sight if the cost would be fixed to whats appear to be their base cost, but with weapons they are insanely pricey..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on March 11, 2018, 09:47:51 AM
Apparently the prices will get fixed according to various comments i've seen on facebook.

I have to wonder of Mr Hoare was high when he thought it up, I get that being able to tailor your warrior to your opponent is useful...but really the prices are not at all worth it for one battle, who has that kind of credits to burn?

Also some of the new bounty hunters are not all that effective, Eyros Slagmist for instance, while very resilient, only has a laspistol, for his price you could permanently hire a ganger/champion with much better weapons for far more bang for your buck.

What you're really paying for is a couple of weapons early (ie the boltgun, which feels like a con) and knowing in advance what skills they have.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 11, 2018, 08:14:40 PM
They get random skills for such huge price! So they are even not very taylored at all..

IMHO this is a dud..

They could work for basic cost. But to be honest without any mechanism mitigating gang size this edition it would be always better to buy 2-3 extra gangers
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on March 12, 2018, 11:19:30 AM
''They get random skills for such huge price! So they are even not very taylored at all..''

The named ones skills are set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 12, 2018, 02:20:38 PM
Yeah but they are constructed sub par for the cost..
245 points for character armed with knife and stub gun.. seriously ? :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 12, 2018, 02:29:17 PM
Forgebane goes up for pre order this coming saturday, And the necron codex will be following close behind it.

Which is great and all, but when are they going to get to the REALLY important stuff and relaunch man O war in the mortal realms?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 12, 2018, 10:03:54 PM
With all those flying ships it would be very cool.. But after Dreadfleet flop i guess they are reluctant..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 14, 2018, 08:17:16 PM
REveals from GAMA.

Kill team is back, more in depth ,with new (really nice looking) modular scenery.

chaos team for bloodbowl, lots of conversion potential.

two new shadespire warbands, blood warriors and stormcast swifthawk agents.

Van saar for necromunda, They look AMAZING. Completley un40k, utterly sci fi, with clear plastic shields and high tech weapons, i can see them being used in every sci fi game from now until the end of plastic.

and we might soon have some proper info on the Idoneth deepkin! :)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/14/kill-team-doom-lords-van-saar-and-moregw-homepage-post-1/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 14, 2018, 08:45:58 PM
Ouch!

Those Van Saar look superb....I think they may break my resistance.
 8)


And those Deepkin look VERY interesting.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 14, 2018, 09:52:46 PM
Van Saars rox
Need them

There is trailer of skirmish game too thats really intresting
(terrain alone is interesting enough!)

https://youtu.be/BYwCOrz4oEo
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on March 14, 2018, 10:38:24 PM
Wow, GW have really turned it around. Cut free from the shackles of the previous management team, they are really producing some excellent stuff. The vanSaar models are just superb. Looks like they are trying all sorts of new developments to encourage newcomers too, they look set for another 30 years at this rate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 14, 2018, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: Nord on March 14, 2018, 10:38:24 PM
Wow, GW have really turned it around. Cut free from the shackles of the previous management team, they are really producing some excellent stuff. The vanSaar models are just superb. Looks like they are trying all sorts of new developments to encourage newcomers too, they look set for another 30 years at this rate.

There was a bit of anecdotal gossip floating around when Roundtree took over , Saying that he called them up and said nothing was off the table, they can pursue all their side projects and everything that had been off limits was now free for review.
seems that given a more open and liberated creative environment, the GW team can do wonders.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 15, 2018, 01:42:19 AM
I'm hopeful.

Kill Team needs to hit it out of the park, but I'm not sure they will - Shadow War was mediocre garbage.  If they can steer away from that, perhaps something to consider.  I've long wanted to do a proper 40K skirmish, but I loathe the idea of making one myself.

Van Saar look excellent, full stop.  They look great for any kind of sci-fi endeavor, and would make amazing IG infantry, Imperial Assassins, or any generic things you need.

GW is still heading a good direction - now if only they'd get their head out of their ass and stop charging $30-35 for single character sprues we'd be set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 15, 2018, 06:29:39 AM
 Wow. Those Van Saar are great minis. I know they were the tech crowd in the hive but they seem too techie for my necromunda liking. I still love the sculpts though. I really hope they bring out new Spyrer minis. They will cost and arm and a leg per mini I reckon though as you only need a few for a gang.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: commissarmoody on March 15, 2018, 11:05:14 AM
They do look great. Don't know about using them as Van Saar, but I don't know what their new fluff is.
But I will be picking more then a few of them up. Think they would be great for an inquisitor assault team or regular agents kitted out for more overt action.

 Could also be a governors body guard. Guard Special Ops team...etc

I know that I will make at least two teams biased off of the Mass Effect MERC groups. Such as Blue Suns,  and another done up like Eclipse who will use some Tau tech. (they will also work as Tau human-helper infiltration teams)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 15, 2018, 11:12:07 AM
The new Necromunda miniatures obviously are superior sculpts to the old gangs. But I'm heavily invested in the old metal minis; I have nearly all the original gangs, and Van Saar is one of the few I'm still lacking.

But right here, right now, I may be swayed to get me the new miniatures instead of the old metal ones. It looks like GW finally managed to extract, distill and refine cool and sculpt it into miniatures! 8)

I got an immediate Infinity vibe from them, especially the ones with the multivisored face masks. If I won't be using them for Necromunda, they'll be very useful for any generic scifi setting...

Colour me interested!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on March 15, 2018, 11:21:35 AM
Quote from: commissarmoody on March 15, 2018, 11:05:14 AM
They do look great. Don't know about using them as Van Saar, but I don't know what their new fluff is.


Van Saar have access to archotech weapons plants allowing them to make far more advanced equipment than anyone else, however there is a fault with the system leaving the clan riddled with radiation poisoning, so they need the armour suits to live.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dentatus on March 15, 2018, 03:57:40 PM
I'm still on the fence about the new Necromunda rules but I will get some Van Saar. They are great figs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Maj Guiscard on March 15, 2018, 06:23:37 PM
Non Space Marine High Tech Human Soldiers!
Woot, I'm in  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: commissarmoody on March 16, 2018, 05:45:06 AM
Thanks mighty flip for filling me in on their background.
And looking forward to seeing what you do with them Major Guiscard. Will 8 ball be receiving new kit then?
I plane on makeing a few groups out of these new figs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on March 16, 2018, 09:01:03 AM
Crap, didn't even play SWA yet.
Still, it did get me excited for some 40k again, so not a complete waste.

I would love if the new Kill-Team is, like, actually a good game, instead of subpar with an awesome 40k sauce.
Swa got me painting some 40k and I was looking forward to it, but just from the book I already thought it was lacking a bit in the options/gameplay department.

If GW brings out the potential it has, that would be sweet. Wouldn't really mind buying another book if this really give some options.

And, agreed, those Van Saars look ace.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Maj Guiscard on March 16, 2018, 10:39:18 PM
Maybe Commisar Moody, just maybe
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 16, 2018, 10:51:37 PM
Well it says kill teams is an entirely new rule set, not based on 8th edition. It also says great for roleplayers, which makes me think it has quite a bit of in depth progression going on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 17, 2018, 12:30:55 AM
What was shown have 3 levels of simple skills in it. But lets hope its only the tip of an iceberg..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: commissarmoody on March 17, 2018, 12:52:15 AM
Quote from: nic-e on March 16, 2018, 10:51:37 PM
Well it says kill teams is an entirely new rule set, not based on 8th edition. It also says great for roleplayers, which makes me think it has quite a bit of in depth progression going on.
fingers crossed on that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 17, 2018, 02:26:04 AM
I'd probably be keen on a kill team like that. Hopefully rules for all factions in the one box...  lol
I'd like a Necron Kill team.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 17, 2018, 07:49:16 PM
Forgebane is up for pre-order - £95 - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40000-Forgebane-2018-ENG. Not really doing anything for me :(

The Van Saar's, on the other hand :-* The one downside is that I suspect they will be kits rather than components, which is going to make converting them a right pain. I do like the direction GW is going, but the move away from separate torsos and legs is annoying. I'm busy using a box of Empire Militia troop torsos with Tau legs to make some more irregular looking Tau. Their current kit fascination is going to make that a lot more difficult in future :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 17, 2018, 08:09:14 PM
Unfortunately GW is going full-bore into "not conversion friendly" kit design in an effort to protect themselves a bit more from the 3rd party market.  Shame, really.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 17, 2018, 08:18:14 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 17, 2018, 08:09:14 PM
Unfortunately GW is going full-bore into "not conversion friendly" kit design in an effort to protect themselves a bit more from the 3rd party market.  Shame, really.

Whilst i can see what you mean with certain kits, I've had no real problem messing around with recent GW kits. It may take a little more work or a bit of thinking outside the box, But the absolutel wealth of nice kits seems to have been a boon to kitbashes and converters in recent years.

The sisters of silence are a good example. They are designed to go together in a very particular way, certain legs to certain torsos ect.
When i opened the sprues i thought "bugger...useless." but after messing around for a bit i found alot of great potential for them!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on March 17, 2018, 08:25:13 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 17, 2018, 08:09:14 PM
Unfortunately GW is going full-bore into "not conversion friendly" kit design in an effort to protect themselves a bit more from the 3rd party market.  Shame, really.

Just bought the orlock boxed set and found that...why couldn't they be flat joins!?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on March 17, 2018, 08:34:54 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 17, 2018, 08:09:14 PM
Unfortunately GW is going full-bore into "not conversion friendly" kit design in an effort to protect themselves a bit more from the 3rd party market.  Shame, really.

I assumed it was to enable them to design more dynamic looking models and get away from the shitty 90's He-Man armed models that still plague the darker corners of their catalogue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on March 17, 2018, 08:41:37 PM
So what if they only go together in a specific way? No different to a single part metal casting or similar where any conversion work you want to do is done from the point where the model is complete. Saw off an arm, weapons, head, etc and find a replacement bit, sculpt in some join detail. Beyond me, but it obviously can be done. Besides, arms that attach to torsos via flat joins can often look a bit off, like He-Man arms as SCL points out lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 17, 2018, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on March 17, 2018, 08:25:13 PM
Just bought the orlock boxed set and found that...why couldn't they be flat joins!?

I thought this a while ago, Until I actually went back and look at the flat joint miniatures i have. As much as i loved putting catachan arms on everything, the big flat joints of the older 40k kits make for some really obvious and ugly joins. where the parry brothers can do flat joins because their models are very fine and realistically proportioned, GWs style just really doesn't suit flat joins, because without some armour or something covering them they just end up looking way too obvious.

(and lets not even talk about the chaos marauders. If I ever wanted a 28mm he-man , I know what kit i'd go for!)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 17, 2018, 10:04:30 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 16, 2018, 10:51:37 PM
Well it says kill teams is an entirely new rule set, not based on 8th edition. It also says great for roleplayers, which makes me think it has quite a bit of in depth progression going on.

Colour me vaguely interested, assuming...

Quote from: AWu on March 17, 2018, 12:30:55 AM
What was shown have 3 levels of simple skills in it. But lets hope its only the tip of an iceberg..

... it's more than those 3 levels.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 17, 2018, 11:23:03 PM
Quote from: nic-e on March 17, 2018, 08:18:14 PM
Whilst i can see what you mean with certain kits, I've had no real problem messing around with recent GW kits. It may take a little more work or a bit of thinking outside the box, But the absolutel wealth of nice kits seems to have been a boon to kitbashes and converters in recent years.

The sisters of silence are a good example. They are designed to go together in a very particular way, certain legs to certain torsos ect.
When i opened the sprues i thought "bugger...useless." but after messing around for a bit i found alot of great potential for them!

She is a beauty Nic-e.. Very statuesque in a good way,  I am actually enamored in more static "Brother in arms" style poses lately myself. They just go  together better for pictures :P

And I agree..
Apart from really single pose models like Shadespire miniatures, modern GW plastic are wonders to work with conversion wise..
Plastic is of high quality and cut well and some green stuffing was always part of conversion making.

Look at this guy. He is really simple conversion made from new Orlocks.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ADCkd7iYs9TkJEdza6n8iBQ58EVCoq3LDAe4LrysOd40X_dmgX5jbFjJJQi8-Hcp2oTJQPNkP386vZX6dXUBaYNVaEdwhzp6B6YzREBC1k2_CR7youpsNrWJOYRiLYMJBfSCgATOO4ERhbKWaXnKfC7vDYlQ_Zd5AQecet1isQM8Nx5HQio6i3pLVtcqSz_HjJD8XvUkQ3ojnVDWJj_7lBDFsNyjxM5QaHZ_EF7HYM4vWhOqH8SF69C7FCQts7Hn6n9iKMD8rLwnutAJcLy5gYTOnM7JgqjMunVsKO2UWtUDFN6pOdwT_HXw1Kyqkfdz-Srjyba1vyE-gu8qXz8weZZFmvhjYwQTWAbzaqK8LQfHXzszNybBGASMCUirhGSzfyuoATPC3vrnKH55JTq07HDDm_kajFwKEVQFYDAfyfnUtRrFcqqKL_D3Z-PD-MN_rX2Bwz-cSCgWLqQFU45EdALgOTd_Hv6KMCmsMl1kmNKD32Xy2NTTtlFAW1QoRs7G7BhEX-HAa1QW_q9KlpunTZeJBDFv6ofFk6X53DygmLA-Q44Ma329REhQF4CYu6w8LhUZHy7t6o6IIzGnI10ApTkanXRap0cA7M4hofY=w635-h900-no)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JeBk94-5yaAdnWQc8_r4NvO6p2aEMtdOMrBN1ClOTB1aED470wqH2m9d-jrO8nzgXdoOF9G8Lg2D0znb065PSBXjO6stfaNoyweVTDr72YbCvwht8I0pPFclYcdBHyj4P3oBTgPp39biw9Wg4b_Tt9YLZDkg4DFIZHz8FPVunOHTRgoiZByiLs4qY_VKb9o0JJndw7KBh95Wa7kiuxoTA0qShJdMqlA7FfXM4alO6UOZKa6jHFaoDuWNAa47vzXpJ5QkSE_KCM58Ux3oxe2ea_pM1_tPYBthC73b2NI7iXqPOUH_IL2izPaFPR2W_hjTR1eJEy8hkX6OVPE-LbRFYLYCpAxng3DFyVm3kQoJ99HBBzHQ-f-idXB2dngKiuUad4OWB_RhvKZ05WuK_4TVmGq5Q-GOv-VaVhed7eTQ48g9RLugwKzUp98Sb3bKSZ776DfhE4fkNbI0h88Njcd3VaLl_9QNGClN3VKVzT6UNi2nxtIN3l0FcUJ0bvb-rPgNH5ciKg-S94C_VkvG4YNiU2yaacrDO-mi-DRTtD93N8wVlkr0P6tq_X4EOLv1V-OJDVw41XCGcojjMfrWs1ED9U-C6hfJBe-YDwiJ52s=w798-h900-no)

While I am generally more interested in converting and building than painting [well building is much easier :] and playing and I am buying most of the kits for parts theese days (actually all except Necromunda bought last year were either for parts or converting)
. I find new models extremely easy to work with.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 18, 2018, 09:20:06 AM
Yeah, I second the comments that the new kits are excellent for conversions! They cut so easily, and there is a surprising amount of very easy compatibility across the kits.

I actually think GW is more conversion-friendly now than in the past with the separate torsos etc. Now it is much easier to have dynamic-looking conversions.

Looking forward to mashing the Van Saar and Orlock kits together, too. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: commissarmoody on March 18, 2018, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on March 18, 2018, 09:20:06 AM

Looking forward to mashing the Van Saar and Orlock kits together, too.
That should be an interesting looking bunch.
I am thinking of mixing a batch with some Tau bits, and have a set of Harliquine masks set aside for another. I hope they fit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 18, 2018, 01:11:28 PM
I'd agree with the more dynamic poses if it weren't for some hilariously bad design choices by GW on some kits.  Luckily only a few (and I don't care how easy plastic is to convert a hand with a weapon should be a flat join).  The Stormcast stuff I'm selling on eBay for some buddies is a good example.  The model "could" 100% be designed with flat hand joins to wrists like "most" models.  They're not doing anything special in their posing...but the hands are specifically cut with a bizarre scalloped cut to join an equally bizarre wrist join.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 18, 2018, 01:25:29 PM
I am yet to acquire some stormcast (for cutting and 40king obviously)
But what pisses me off more than strange joints is that forearms are cast on the shield :)

But that is an evergreen :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 18, 2018, 02:39:06 PM
With all these new kits, it would be great if GW made some upgrade kits for their Imperial Guard. The Command Squad box is a great start but a new box, with maybe veteran bits/females torsos and heads would be even better. The fact that I've assembled almost 40 Cadians in a week made me realize that...

Even using Anvil industries bits you can't get enough variation when it comes to legs for instance. And I wanted to add female soldiers but since I can't afford buying those from Victoria Miniatures, had use Statuesque heads on normal Cadian and Anvil bodies :\
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 18, 2018, 02:53:11 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on March 18, 2018, 02:39:06 PM
With all these new kits, it would be great if GW made some upgrade kits for their Imperial Guard. The Command Squad box is a great start but a new box, with maybe veteran bits/females torsos and heads would be even better. The fact that I've assembled almost 40 Cadians in a week made me realize that...

Even using Anvil industries bits you can't get enough variation when it comes to legs for instance. And I wanted to add female soldiers but since I can't afford buying those from Victoria Miniatures, had use Statuesque heads on normal Cadian and Anvil bodies :\

Having your boobs flattened by armour (does the standard IG armour actually provide any noticeable in-game protection these days?) is a small price to pay in service to the Emperor.
I've actually used the same method myself and will likely stick with it. GW's focus seems to be getting new stuff for AoS, more new marines for 40k and some of the new Specialist Games stuff out so I wouldn't expect IG getting anything anytime soon.

Edit: anyone have experience with the Raging Heroes minis? I recall there were some girls there who might've fit okay-ishly with GW Cadians.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on March 18, 2018, 03:15:07 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on March 18, 2018, 02:53:11 PM
(does the standard IG armour actually provide any noticeable in-game protection these days?)
You can write your name on it so when they find your charred corpse, they can identify you and therefore won't be charged with desertion.
Though you may be charged, posthumously, with having a defaced uniform.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 18, 2018, 03:40:09 PM
Quote from: voltan on March 18, 2018, 03:15:07 PM
You can write your name on it so when they find your charred corpse, they can identify you and therefore won't be charged with desertion.
Though you may be charged, posthumously, with having a defaced uniform.

Just the way I remember it then.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on March 18, 2018, 03:48:05 PM
As for conversion i have just spent a very enjoyable Sunday morning converting Primaris Intercessors and Rievers into true-scale Deathwatch marines , all this whilst preparing sunday dinner lol.

I even converted the 30 year anniversary Intercessor Sergeant into Artemis, so i am pleased.

All my old marines are now going to be human renegades, they are just too small .

See you fron the otherside of the press tool

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 18, 2018, 08:18:11 PM
So this afternoon I tested the theory, and I can confirm that the new Orlocks are absolutely ace to convert - so much fun to be had with them!

(Pic is very WiP - still need to do the greenstuffing. When they're a bit further advanced they'll be appearing in my Yerot's World thread in Future Wars).

(https://imgur.com/3PSSr28)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 18, 2018, 08:20:21 PM
Hmmm, dunno why the image didn't work. Trying again:
(https://i.imgur.com/3PSSr28.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 18, 2018, 10:58:12 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on March 18, 2018, 03:48:05 PM
As for conversion i have just spent a very enjoyable Sunday morning converting Primaris Intercessors and Rievers into true-scale Deathwatch marines , all this whilst preparing sunday dinner lol.

I even converted the 30 year anniversary Intercessor Sergeant into Artemis, so i am pleased.

All my old marines are now going to be human renegades, they are just too small .

See you fron the otherside of the press tool

Glen

The primaris are an absolute dream for truescalers or anyone playing inq28 style games.
Big chunky panels and nice flat spaces for freehand, they cut up nicely and they mesh perfectly with alot of existing marine bits.
I really need to get on and finish my primaris crusader and his retinue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 19, 2018, 01:21:31 PM
Agree. I dropped all my truescale projects and switched to primaris.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on March 20, 2018, 12:48:33 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 17, 2018, 08:09:14 PM
Unfortunately GW is going full-bore into "not conversion friendly" kit design in an effort to protect themselves a bit more from the 3rd party market.  Shame, really.
which is a pain for those of us who only really want to model, convert  and paint while avoiding a poorly written garbage ruleset
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 21, 2018, 09:40:42 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on March 20, 2018, 12:48:33 PM
which is a pain for those of us who only really want to model, convert  and paint while avoiding a poorly written garbage ruleset

Such true!

Much annoy!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 22, 2018, 03:08:03 AM
And GW just announced plastic Sisters of Battle, coming in 2019.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/22/breaking-news-major-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/
Quote
Yup, plastic Sisters of Battle are on their way. For reals.

We know many of you have been waiting patiently (and impatiently…) for a long time for the Adepta Sororitas, and that for many of you this is more than ‘just’ a new army. So, we’re going to do something we’ve never done before – right up until the release, we’ll be bringing you updates on the Sisters of Battle, sharing images and snippets of info and a whole ton of behind the scenes goodness.

Emperor willing, the Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas will be ready to take the fight to the renegade, the heretic and the unbeliever in 2019.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 22, 2018, 03:22:40 AM
Quote from: Predatorpt on March 22, 2018, 03:08:03 AM
And GW just announced plastic Sisters of Battle, coming in 2019.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/22/breaking-news-major-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 22, 2018, 03:52:03 AM
So the deepkin basically are sea elves?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 22, 2018, 08:31:31 AM
Yep...some are riding sharks & sea horses...or a big turtle.

While a couple of the minis look cool most are just a bit OTT for my tastes, a bit too on the nose, though maybe its just the paint jobs that are turning me off.

I was hoping for an AoS faction I would actually like but at the mo I could maybe see me getting a few minis at the most...maybe...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on March 22, 2018, 11:03:15 AM
FINALLY plastic sisters! Really hyped for these, hyped like the giddy 13 year old Space Marine fanboy that I once was. I thought it was going to happen soon, glad I just sold my metal sisters  lol

In other news I went to Warhammer World for the first time recently, was in Nottingham anyway and had a couple of hours to kill. Wish i’d Had more time! I was awed by some of the displays. Some like the Emperor vs Horus dio that I’ve admired for years are just 10x nicer in the flesh, and there’s some very old John Blanche stuff on display. Due to running out of time we didn’t get to go to the bar which was a shame, so I’ll definitely go back.

The ‘Dioramas’ book mentioned earlier in the thread was the only thing I bought; there’s a deal with this plus an exhibition ticket (face value £7.50) for £20 which isn’t too bad. It’s not a particularly hefty tome but it’s a very nice memento after seeing the displays themselves.

Genuinely happy with the visit. The wife even enjoyed it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 22, 2018, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Predatorpt on March 22, 2018, 03:08:03 AM
And GW just announced plastic Sisters of Battle, coming in 2019.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/22/breaking-news-major-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/

Now, I'd be excited if not for the fact that they'll be out of scale with my metal sisters.  :?
I do suspect that this is great new for anyone interested and without prior models, however!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 22, 2018, 01:05:16 PM
And more Imperial Knights...which look really bad (shame since the normal Knight kit looks superb).  Overall, an exceptionally "meh" combination of announcements.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 22, 2018, 02:15:32 PM
I thought the new knight looks like a mini warlord titan. It makes me wonder if GW kinda wish they could make titans smaller.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 22, 2018, 03:27:26 PM
Well they're launching a new Adeptus Titanicus eventually, so maybe this can be used as a proxy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 22, 2018, 04:28:42 PM
I see they are doing a Warhammer Legends website for old minis with no rules. I wonder if they are aiming to stop selling the older minis and port them across to there so they don't have to keep putting them into the generals handbook.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 22, 2018, 05:14:36 PM
I believe that is the plan - as well as not being able to use them in tournaments going foreward etc.  So you can use them in fluffy local games, but cannot take them to large events.

Personally don't have a problem with that - would rather see that than have them disappear completely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 22, 2018, 05:57:43 PM
Agreed.

I think I'd actually like to see the non-AoS factions (the hang-overs from the old world) dropped. It would certainly help to make the game feel less cluttered because with all the options there now its a bit of a mess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 22, 2018, 06:02:15 PM
I have to say, I can't stand the AoS aesthetic or any of the factions - but I sadly agree, the old armies need to be removed - just rip the band-aid off, rather than letting them sit, slowly rotting and being removed from the webstore, lol.

If you're going to kill classic Warhammer Fantasy - just do it wholesale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 22, 2018, 06:10:58 PM
 lol I'm no fan either though part of me wants to like something in AoS. The Orruks came close but those not-boars are just plain fuggly. Sadly, I don't think the fishy elves are gunna do it for me either  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on March 22, 2018, 06:33:49 PM
I think they literally jumped the shark on this one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 22, 2018, 06:42:28 PM
Well, I like the new Deepkin creatures and will probably get some for conversions at least.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 22, 2018, 07:48:54 PM
The elf with a cloak that turns into a wave is another case of technical genius. I'm looking at it and thinking "no, can't work, no way that's a plastic kit." but it is.
god damn GW do you kidnap sculptors in the night or something?!


Also like the sound of a website for older models. there are alot of wonderful ,well loved sculpts that are either out sized by current releases or have no use in game, and there isn't a foundry or a ral partha for the moulds to go to.

It's nice to know that GW want to keep their legacy sculpts for fans.It shows a respect to the sculptors and an desire to support the hobby beyond their current output.
who knows, We might even see the brets and tomb kings on there since the steel moulds are most likely still sat around .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 22, 2018, 07:54:43 PM
Quote from: grant on March 22, 2018, 06:33:49 PM
I think they literally jumped the shark on this one.

Exactly the phrase that came to my mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 22, 2018, 08:13:17 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 22, 2018, 07:54:43 PM
Exactly the phrase that came to my mind.
OK, who's going to make a conversion of Fonz the elf leaping over a levitating shark?
Nice models (I really liked the turtle, especially if it lost the stuff it's carrying), but how do they float in the air - or breathe? Does the mage cast 'sharknado'?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 22, 2018, 08:32:38 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on March 22, 2018, 08:13:17 PM
OK, who's going to make a conversion of Fonz the elf leaping over a levitating shark?
Nice models (I really liked the turtle, especially if it lost the stuff it's carrying), but how do they float in the air - or breathe? Does the mage cast 'sharknado'?

Pretty much.

From what we know, The mages of the deepkin cast an enchantment that allows them to move on land as if they were still in the ocean, they can swim through the air.
Imagine you've sent out a patrol to guard the coast , your men are tired, annoyed and cold. The captain shouts down "don't worry lads, These fools can't bring their monsters on land!"
and then out of the deep shoots a giant carnivorous turtle shooting bolts the size of a mans torso, floating on mist and rain and rushing down on them at the front of a tidal wave of cavalry.
You'd be pissed to say the least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on March 22, 2018, 08:32:43 PM
For the now-wacky theme of the AoS setting, I like the Deepkin a lot. Fun models.

Keen to see what the classic model range website takes the form of. It's a money maker for them if they go whole hog with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 22, 2018, 09:13:49 PM
I see wonderful conversion opportunities for bio-mechanical sharks etc. ridden by ace-looking Eldar Exodites. Dunno about a flying shark in AoS, but a bio-mechanical one in the outer regions of 40k sounds alright!

Like the look of the actual sea elves too. Not overtly good- or evil-looking, whereas GW can get a bit too black-and-white on that in the past.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 22, 2018, 09:26:20 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on March 22, 2018, 09:13:49 PM
Like the look of the actual sea elves too. Not overtly good- or evil-looking, whereas GW can get a bit too black-and-white on that in the past.

It seems to hark back to Tolkein's Elves of the Silmarillion, proud and cruel and lacking the wisdom of the surviving races of the later years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 22, 2018, 09:33:34 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 22, 2018, 09:26:20 PM
It seems to hark back to Tolkein's Elves of the Silmarillion, proud and cruel and lacking the wisdom of the surviving races of the later years.

I had a similar thought when i saw the elf with the ocean cloak , It made me think of "for the arising of the King of the Sea was terrible, as a mounting wave that strides to the land, with dark helm foam-crested and raiment of mail shimmering from silver down into shadows of green. The trumpets of Manwë are loud, but Ulmo's voice is deep as the deeps of the ocean which he only has seen.  " and the other descriptions of the elves and the vala, Their Raiment often being described as the ocean, the sky, the earth, the woods ect. a borderline elemental force.

Also look at his armour, It's gorgeously art nouveau, With fish faces melding into scales into cloth into water. it's so elegant!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on March 23, 2018, 03:32:51 AM
The new elves remind me of some of Blanches older artwork, can definitely see some conversions in some of the minis.

While its good sob's are getting plastic I reckon many will be disappointed when they come out and the aesthetic doesn't match the older stuff (GW has indicated an anti-'boobplate' stance).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 23, 2018, 04:36:51 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on March 23, 2018, 03:32:51 AM
The new elves remind me of some of Blanches older artwork, can definitely see some conversions in some of the minis.

While its good sob's are getting plastic I reckon many will be disappointed when they come out and the aesthetic doesn't match the older stuff (GW has indicated an anti-'boobplate' stance).
We shall see. The recent Saint Celestia plastic kit (only plastic sisters in existence to date) may turn out to be a good example of what's to come, or it may end up fairly different. Who knows?

I'm sure we'll start seeing previews in a few months.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 23, 2018, 05:47:29 AM
Quote from: nic-e on March 22, 2018, 08:32:38 PM
Pretty much.

From what we know, The mages of the deepkin cast an enchantment that allows them to move on land as if they were still in the ocean, they can swim through the air.
Imagine you've sent out a patrol to guard the coast , your men are tired, annoyed and cold. The captain shouts down "don't worry lads, These fools can't bring their monsters on land!"
and then out of the deep shoots a giant carnivorous turtle shooting bolts the size of a mans torso, floating on mist and rain and rushing down on them at the front of a tidal wave of cavalry.
You'd be pissed to say the least.
Oh great, now I might actually want to get them  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 23, 2018, 07:16:39 AM
The enchantment fails and they are all left wallowing on the battlefield. Now that would be a good spell counter.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 23, 2018, 07:54:27 AM
Quote from: beefcake on March 23, 2018, 07:16:39 AM
The enchantment fails and they are all left wallowing on the battlefield. Now that would be a good spell counter.

Imagine sea elves in ornate armour, flopping about on the shore and gasping for breath - literally fish out of water.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 23, 2018, 08:59:09 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on March 23, 2018, 07:54:27 AM
Imagine sea elves in ornate armour, flopping about on the shore and gasping for breath - literally fish out of water.

(http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/36600000/Spongebob-Squarepants-image-spongebob-squarepants-36623110-1000-641.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on March 23, 2018, 09:28:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vscKu1q.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 23, 2018, 12:30:08 PM
Heh
Duncan lives in the internet as simulacrum of himself :P

I quite like fish elves.
Not sure would want them but they are unique and truly trippy fantasy in style of flying whales and such.

And they create potential for underwater adventures.

There was once saying..
What it is - one hundred elves at the bottom of the sea ?
- A good start! :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 23, 2018, 01:06:26 PM
Quote from: AWu on March 23, 2018, 12:30:08 PM
And they create potential for underwater adventures.

My thinking exactly.
I have been gathering bits and pieces for an underwater fantasy setting for a while now, including some of the Wrath of Kings stuff and these Deepkin beasties will be great for that idea too.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on March 23, 2018, 03:45:27 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on March 23, 2018, 04:36:51 AM
We shall see. The recent Saint Celestia plastic kit (only plastic sisters in existence to date) may turn out to be a good example of what's to come, or it may end up fairly different. Who knows?

I'm sure we'll start seeing previews in a few months.

Both the ceelstine kit and the grey fax kit(with the boobplate) where designed quite some time ago as GW operates on a three year cycle apparently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on March 23, 2018, 08:29:20 PM
Some interesting design choices on those elves - part of which look pretty great (liking the ornate armour), others positively terrible. Not a fan of the pale bald eyeless figures, nor does it seem a great idea to equip such fighters with bows - although I'm sure there is some dodgy story behind that.

Idoneth Deepkin.
The Age of Sigmar names really don't work for me. Granted, "Tomb Kings" or "Lizardmen" were hardly original, but these are just trying too hard to be new and copyrightable. They sound neither like something the people would call themselves, nor how another people might name them.


Pretty intriguing to see what's being made by GW these days under the new management though. A strange mix of fan-favourites and completely whacky stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 23, 2018, 08:50:07 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on March 23, 2018, 08:29:20 PM

Idoneth Deepkin.
The Age of Sigmar names really don't work for me. Granted, "Tomb Kings" or "Lizardmen" were hardly original, but these are just trying too hard to be new and copyrightable. They sound neither like something the people would call themselves, nor how another people might name them.


I can see it being a combo of both.

Idoneth = the name they gave themselves after being abandoned by teclis. 

Deepkin = the name others give them, either elves who view them as odd family or other races that view them as a terror from the depths.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 23, 2018, 09:00:37 PM
I have to admit though... as beautiful as they are, I was rather disappointed that we got sea elves instead of fishmen. Was hoping to build a horde of Innsmouth citizens.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on March 23, 2018, 09:55:19 PM
Quite liking this new Deepkin range and the Daughters before them.

Never really bothered too much with AoS before now (Kings of War was/is my Fantasy bread and butter game) but I'm tempted to give it a bash as some of the AoS Start Collecting sets are amazing value (For a GW product that is hehe).

I guess I've handed back in my Oldhammer Card then  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 23, 2018, 10:07:16 PM
Quote from: Chico on March 23, 2018, 09:55:19 PM
Quite liking this new Deepkin range and the Daughters before them.

Never really bothered too much with AoS before now (Kings of War was/is my Fantasy bread and butter game) but I'm tempted to give it a bash as some of the AoS Start Collecting sets are amazing value (For a GW product that is hehe).

I guess I've handed back in my Oldhammer Card then  lol

Age of sigmar is full of oldhammer style insanity.

I'm curious to see what the deepkin start collecting will be. they seem to have alot of releases ,so it could be anything!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 24, 2018, 09:26:25 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on March 22, 2018, 09:13:49 PM
I see wonderful conversion opportunities for bio-mechanical sharks etc. ridden by ace-looking Eldar Exodites. Dunno about a flying shark in AoS, but a bio-mechanical one in the outer regions of 40k sounds alright!

Like the look of the actual sea elves too. Not overtly good- or evil-looking, whereas GW can get a bit too black-and-white on that in the past.
Flying sharks reminds me of the old Maui t shirt I had in the 90s ,native Americans riding great whites in the sky .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 24, 2018, 09:36:18 AM
I’ve always wanted to Do a wet 40k Agri world where land is islands and already settled by exodites ,(probably watched moana too much with my daughter ) lol
But I bet the turtles are not cheap .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 24, 2018, 10:33:26 AM
I see the Necrons are getting their "start collecting Necrons" set. I must say, I'm tempted to start collecting Necrons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on March 24, 2018, 11:10:04 AM
But they already had one. ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 24, 2018, 06:45:18 PM
Did they? Maybe this release is for chumps like me then lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 24, 2018, 08:25:21 PM
Yeah, I actually liked the earlier Start Collecting set for them since it came with the groovy spider-walker.
Had planned to get it to make up a Necron force for ITEN (and now possibly for the upcoming Kill Team too) but I'm afraid that I'm not so taken with the flying gunchair.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 25, 2018, 12:27:05 AM
Maybe I'll just continue collecting the old metals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on March 25, 2018, 08:54:59 PM
Quote from: beefcake on March 25, 2018, 12:27:05 AM
Maybe I'll just continue collecting the old metals.

Same, looking forward to this new website for finishing off collections, there are a stick of dwarf minis i'd love to buy.

Also i'd go ape of they started casting up mordheim minis again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on March 28, 2018, 03:52:42 PM
Anybody else just get this email?

Quote from: hachette
Thank you for subscribing to Warhammer 40,000: Conquest.

We would like to inform you that we have paused the publication of this title but we are hoping to launch the collection nationally in the near future.

We will be sure to keep you informed of any developments via email, and if we do launch the collection nationally we will send you the first 3 issues of the collection for free as a thank you for supporting Warhammer 40,000: Conquest from the beginning.

Please rest assured that your account has not been charged at all. If you’d like any more information please contact us via one of the methods above.

The obvious read is that they worked out the finances when 75% of people are going to drop after one or two issues, but maybe they didn't get enough bites?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 28, 2018, 04:08:05 PM
Yeah, I got that email too.

I suspect you may well be right WW.

Perhaps they will re-jig the items that are being given away with issues?

To be honest, I think they would have been better off showing the first few months worth of issues and items that come with them.

Part of the problem might also have been that people worked out the cost and the fact that essentially, it seemed to be the starter set bundle with paints, broken down into small weekly instalments. The issue with that is you can go out and buy the cheapest starter set for £20ish.

In the long run, very few people are going to stick around for 80 issues. And this is the problem ALL of this sort of magazine scheme have. People will dip and out when the items they want are on the front. Some of them look more than worth it. For £8 getting a small group of minis is worth it on it's own when compared to RRP.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on March 28, 2018, 04:11:48 PM
No wonder no one can find a copy! Does anyone buy more than a couple of issues of partworks? (I mean some people must do, but the steep climb in price is always off-putting, besides what was the market? If it was supposed to be to hook kids into 40k then by making it a subscription thing doesn't really make sense does it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on March 28, 2018, 04:19:24 PM
I was semi tempted by the 2000ad partworks but then that was an easy one to take pieces of and the rates even at full price were decent.

From what I gather talking to a couple of flags owners the market for this one was very much tesco's basically - that seems a reasonable target for a loss leader to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 28, 2018, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: westwaller on March 28, 2018, 04:11:48 PM
No wonder no one can find a copy! Does anyone buy more than a couple of issues of partworks? (I mean some people must do, but the steep climb in price is always off-putting, besides what was the market? If it was supposed to be to hook kids into 40k then by making it a subscription thing doesn't really make sense does it?

It wasn't 'just' a subscription thing.

Personally, I thought it was a clever idea. Especially for kids. Because when you look at what you were getting it was well worth the money and after the first month or so you would have a paint brush and a effectively a starter paint set with miniatures to paint, dice to play. And various aspects of the rules and painting guides.

In the UK at least, supposedly the average pocket money given to kids now is £10 per week. That seems a bit much to me, but even if you consider that to be true - what can you buy in GW for £10 per week? Not a lot I would hazard a guess. So it would be saving up for things. When you look at it like that, it's a pretty viable investment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on March 28, 2018, 08:48:50 PM
I remember getting my £3 a week which is why my mid 90s ultramarines army consisted mostly of Bikes and Tactical Squads  lol

It’s a shame about the magazine. I too think it’s a good idea. I think it wouldn’t do much harm for GW to get their box sets into Argos or similar (again, I believe Space Crusade and Space Hulk were?) just to increase that market penetration.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on March 28, 2018, 09:29:25 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on March 28, 2018, 08:48:50 PM
It’s a shame about the magazine. I too think it’s a good idea. I think it wouldn’t do much harm for GW to get their box sets into Argos or similar (again, I believe Space Crusade and Space Hulk were?) just to increase that market penetration.

Certainly wfb 4th was - for a bargainous 25 quid.

Sadly I think Argos is about as lively as wfb now. I guess the modern equivalent is amazon? Was gonna suggest toys r us but...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on March 28, 2018, 09:37:43 PM
I did think that as I posted  lol

I suppose the big supermarkets have taken on a lot of the bricks and mortar toy sales, perhaps getting something into the toy aisle would be a real coup.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 28, 2018, 11:19:13 PM
They did the same thing with the novels partwork a while ago and then one day that just appeared in the wild! Also it seems SOME PEOPLE did manage to get copies, Tho whether that was from stores or through a direct order I don't know.

Personally i just wanted more of their starter brushes, they have such firm bristles and are perfect all purpose/detail brushes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 29, 2018, 06:26:24 PM
So various places are indicating that partworks do limited region releases as a test for a full blown national thing. Someone on facebook is suggesting that this will get the go ahead after hitting four figure subscriber numbers with nothing but a single post online in regards to marketing.

However, as I had set up a subscription, and that their wording was a bit ambiguous - I shot them an email:
Quote
Hi guys,

Thanks for the email today. Could I enquire as to why this has been postponed? Also, does this mean my subscription is actually cancelled or does it mean that when it starts again, my subscription will start from then?

As you can imagine, I didn't hope to get an answer to the first bit but if you never ask you never get! Their response:
Quote
Thanks for your email.

The subscription hasn't been cancelled but will resume when it starts up again.

If you have any further questions, then please let me know.

So those of you that subscribed, but now no longer want to, do not think your subscription has been cancelled. It sounds very much like this will happen at some point in the future.

I also wonder whether the paints we see will be actual pots you can buy in store, or the smaller ones that have been seen before on the front of the lord of the rings magazine etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on March 29, 2018, 07:54:58 PM
Possibly slightly off topic, but does anyone have experience of the Black Library books and the readability of the authors? I'm tempted by the Humble Bundle offer which roughly works out as £11 for 20 ebooks, a couple of which are compilations or omnibus editions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on March 29, 2018, 08:01:49 PM
Quote from: Skyven on March 29, 2018, 07:54:58 PM
Possibly slightly off topic, but does anyone have experience of the Black Library books and the readability of the authors? I'm tempted by the Humble Bundle offer which roughly works out as £11 for 20 ebooks, a couple of which are compilations or omnibus editions.

I think they’re generally very enjoyable. They’re always well paced and quite exciting, like a decent action film. Obviously because of the setting there’s very little in the way of a wider meaning (some of the Horus heresy books excepted).

What I do like about most of the WH40k books is that they generally don’t waste too much time on exposition; they assume you know a bit about the universe to begin with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 29, 2018, 08:15:14 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on March 29, 2018, 08:01:49 PM
I think they’re generally very enjoyable. They’re always well paced and quite exciting, like a decent action film. Obviously because of the setting there’s very little in the way of a wider meaning (some of the Horus heresy books excepted).

What I do like about most of the WH40k books is that they generally don’t waste too much time on exposition; they assume you know a bit about the universe to begin with.

I'll echo that, But I'd also say be careful of any authors that are also rules writers/former GW studio staff. the stories themselves may be fine, but they tend to be an utter slog.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 29, 2018, 08:19:03 PM
Quote from: Skyven on March 29, 2018, 07:54:58 PM
Possibly slightly off topic, but does anyone have experience of the Black Library books and the readability of the authors? I'm tempted by the Humble Bundle offer which roughly works out as £11 for 20 ebooks, a couple of which are compilations or omnibus editions.

Writing quality varies tremendously from author to author, but I find them pretty enjoyable if not profound. I have done some conversions based off book descriptions, so I must have found some inspiration there.

What faction or genre are you thinking you'd like to read about?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 29, 2018, 10:26:45 PM
I just went for the $1 bundle. Solely for Gotrex and Felix. The only thing that made me want the big bunde was Kal Jericho Omnibus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 29, 2018, 11:29:46 PM
Quote from: Skyven on March 29, 2018, 07:54:58 PM
Possibly slightly off topic, but does anyone have experience of the Black Library books and the readability of the authors? I'm tempted by the Humble Bundle offer which roughly works out as £11 for 20 ebooks, a couple of which are compilations or omnibus editions.

I have not read any GW fiction other than the Horus Heresy novels, since Dan Abnett's Inquisition boks, which are all wonderful, I reckon, and have even survived several culls of my book cases. I reckon I will keep the, for a long time as they are always worth reading again.

I love the Horus Heresy books and would recommend them to anyone interested in a good 'origins' style background to the 40K universe. The books are of variable quality but usually provide good entertainment and inspiration even when they are not as good as others in the series (although I do struggle with just about all of the Dark Angels stuff, to be honest...).

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 30, 2018, 02:38:49 PM
There are some very decent GW novels, including some super old ones (they had some random novels in the early 90's late 80's which were superb).  The Horus Heresy, at least the first 5-6 books are pretty damn good.

Abnett is always entertaining, Aaron Dembski Bowden isn't half bad, and Gav Thorpe can do pretty good work on occasion.  I picked up a previous humble bundle which was 12 or so of the HH books and read most of them without feeling like I was wasting time doing so.

However, the elephant in the room is that their prices outside of a deal like humble bundle are...borderline comical in some instances.  eBooks being $15+ etc.  So Black Library gets nada from me unless it's in a humble bundle or bought used off eBay/Amazon, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ethelred the Almost Ready on March 30, 2018, 10:06:05 PM
Is this an early April Fools joke?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FR/Nazgul-of-Dol-Guldur-Collection-2018

Nice figures, but insane price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Plynkes on March 30, 2018, 10:20:29 PM
As Allen Curtis once put it, Forgeworld is not for the likes of us, it's for the children of Russian Oligarchs.

When they get tired of buying football teams, they start collecting 40k.  :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on March 30, 2018, 10:25:17 PM
Just the combined price of the three separate packs. A discount would have been nice, mind you.

Given that it's Forge World, the separate packs are.. probably not that badly priced. Given that a fairly normally sized figure can be 15+ quid https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-FR/Gor-Half-horn-Beastman-Bounty-Hunter-2017. It's just that it hits home a bit harder when you'd buy 9 of them at once. On the plus side, add the Necromancer and Keeper of the Dungeons, and you've got yourself a 1000pts army. My bigger gripe would be that the proportions seems off on most sculpts. Torso, length and thickness of arms.. just not quite right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobby Services on March 30, 2018, 10:55:46 PM
If I'm converting the price correctly, that works out to about $15.50 a model.  Nine unique sculpts, in mid-quality resin, probably well cast.  It's more money than I'd spend on it personally, but hardly outrageous.  And it's quite a bit cheaper than their average plastic character model for 40K or AoS, many of which are $20 and up.

The paint jobs are laughably simple, but they fit the subject.  Nazgul are easy to paint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 31, 2018, 04:12:08 AM
With LotR/Hobbit shifting to Forge World I am completely done buying new stuff for Middle-Earth, that's for sure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on March 31, 2018, 08:11:50 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on March 30, 2018, 10:25:17 PM
My bigger gripe would be that the proportions seems off on most sculpts. Torso, length and thickness of arms.. just not quite right.

The weird thing is I seem to go back on forth on this. sometimes they look fine then in another photo the same miniature looks like a gorilla armed child in it's dads armour.
I remember when they were released they looked entirely off, then i thought they were fine, then not. Maybe it's me? or maybe the figures are cast in actual wraith resin.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 01, 2018, 07:16:48 AM
Quote from: Hobby Services on March 30, 2018, 10:55:46 PM
Nine unique sculpts...

I'm not sure I'd say there are 9 unique sculpts as 7 of them seem to have the same basic pose, to my mind that's bad for almost 100 quid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on April 03, 2018, 08:55:05 AM
Everyone seen this? Would have thought it was an April fools if it had come out a day earlier lol.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/02/forge-world-preview-beast-meets-bot-in-the-underhive/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on April 03, 2018, 12:49:41 PM
Yes, doesn't look at all like it belongs in GW's IP.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 03, 2018, 01:38:56 PM
Yep, and oddly some gangs will be getting hired work robots before other gangs are even actually released it seems.  Poor state of affairs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on April 03, 2018, 03:54:30 PM
Is that a 40K flavoured Labourjack (as in Warmachine...)?  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 03, 2018, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: Elbows on April 03, 2018, 01:38:56 PM
Yep, and oddly some gangs will be getting hired work robots before other gangs are even actually released it seems.  Poor state of affairs.

Is this a serious moan or tongue in cheek? Hard to tell.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 03, 2018, 04:18:44 PM
To be fair, the ambull was just a D&D umber hulk. And I don't know what people mean  about it not looking 40k,it seems fine to me. Perfectly inkeeping with the style of 40k robots.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 03, 2018, 06:12:22 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on April 03, 2018, 04:13:13 PM
Is this a serious moan or tongue in cheek? Hard to tell.

I think you know which.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 03, 2018, 07:24:27 PM
I don't - I mean that's why I asked.

It could be taken either way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on April 03, 2018, 08:09:31 PM
Quote from: nic-e on April 03, 2018, 04:18:44 PM
To be fair, the ambull was just a D&D umber hulk. And I don't know what people mean  about it not looking 40k,it seems fine to me. Perfectly inkeeping with the style of 40k robots.

It's the artwork, it looks like something out of a generic video game from 5 years ago. And the robot doesn't seem to have signature gw stylings.
Still, theres room for the actual model to be great  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on April 04, 2018, 05:02:56 PM
I'd read a point on 4chan that due to how 'lax' things were back in the good old days, the ambull design is still owned by the original sculptor, hence why a newer ''not-ambull'' is available on knightmare  miniatures and why GW is doing a take on it instead of a straighter update.

Ignore that, turns out one of the Perrys is the sculptor, also the old ambull is based off the umber hulk of DnD fame.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on April 08, 2018, 02:14:05 PM
Quote from: Elbows on April 03, 2018, 01:38:56 PM
Yep, and oddly some gangs will be getting hired work robots before other gangs are even actually released it seems.  Poor state of affairs.
The entire Necromunda release has been more than just a "poor state of affairs".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on April 08, 2018, 03:04:41 PM
Normally i'd be straight on the developer hate train but in this case I would say the fact that it's one small team doing all the work that is to blame.

I for one love all the rogue trader call backs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 08, 2018, 03:29:17 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on April 08, 2018, 02:14:05 PM
The entire Necromunda release has been more than just a "poor state of affairs".

I've seen countless versions of this claim online and I dtill fail to grasp the problem.
The game is being made by a small team of a larger studio, The gangs are being released slowly yes, but if you want a specific gang you just wait, The same as anyone that wants anything. if GW had put necromunda out with all the gangs ready, all the extra content in a big £90 rulebook then i'm sure the same people bemoaning the lack of (insert favourite gang) would also moan that there's too much to buy and they can't be bothered with the investment.

It isn't just about profit. A stepped release schedule stops the game getting stagnant. New rules shake up the meta of the game and stop one gang dominating the game for an entire edition. This way sure, Cawdor may be on top for 3 months, But then a new book will come along that offers all gangs new tools and tricks and the players are forced to rethink their tried and tested lists and methods. Turning necromunda into a living game seems to me to be the best way to keep the game from becoming a stagnant net listed mess. And as much as those still playing with their old gangs might say "ah well we've been playing at my house for 20 years and it never got stagnant. " good for you, But GW can't see inside your house. They can only see what happens in their stores and events, and in those situations where you have 300 people playing together using gangs built partly on community feedback online, They will notice unbalance or bias.
with the current release structure, they can correct that as it comes up.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 08, 2018, 03:33:20 PM
So will the figures in the Warhammer Legends range be metal or Finecast/resin or whatever it's called nowadays? So id it for characters and/or units? I prefer the generic Order list, as I like to field knights, not ugly shits on wingless griffins, so will this mean I won't be able to use the stats in the compendium list in Matched Play?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 08, 2018, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: nic-e on April 08, 2018, 03:29:17 PM
I've seen countless versions of this claim online and I dtill fail to grasp the problem.
The game is being made by a small team of a larger studio, The gangs are being released slowly yes
The rate of releases is not nearly the biggest gripe with Necro's current state. The real problem lies in a seeming complete lack of proofreading. Sections are missing, unclearly written or completely inconsistent with other parts. A suddenly rushed release schedule is to blame there, whatever the reason for that is.

That said, the release strategy certainly doesn't help either. Although I agree that a series of updates and releases help keep the game alive and fresh, and am very happy with ongoing support, they really are milking it, to the detriment of the game. Releasing full rules for the main gangs would have allowed a much more interesting playing field than just the two for which they made new models, and then a single new gang every few months. But of course, this would have allowed third parties to make and sell stand-in models, so they didn't. Same with the available armoury: old models and conversions that cannot be used until a new release offering relatively basic options comes along. Before too long, you'd get tired of the expense required, the wait until your faction is available or remotely complete, or indeed just having to carry 4 books around for a simple 10-figure skirmish game. Especially when the intermediate time has clearly not been spent on proofreading and decently editing the material.

Quote from: Condottiere on April 08, 2018, 03:33:20 PM
So will the figures in the Warhammer Legends range be metal or Finecast/resin or whatever it's called nowadays?
It's usually whatever the figures were produced in before they went out of production I think. So can be either, depending on the specific sculpt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 08, 2018, 07:37:25 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on April 08, 2018, 04:58:29 PM
The rate of releases is not nearly the biggest gripe with Necro's current state. The real problem lies in a seeming complete lack of proofreading. Sections are missing, unclearly written or completely inconsistent with other parts. A suddenly rushed release schedule is to blame there, whatever the reason for that is.

I'm starting my 3D boards for Necro now. My biggest gripe about the new incarnation of Necromunda thus far is the dark gray and textured background behind body text in the rulebooks. That should never have gotten through the design stage- it's a first semester graphic design student mistake.

Proofreading, clear technical writing, and good layout & design is a lost art it seems. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on April 08, 2018, 11:13:51 PM
You can tell that their is some type of disconnect with the way that the profile for gor half horn is different in two parts of the same book, also the constant changing up of weapon qualities/prices as each new gang comes out.

The chaos club has a club at 25 creds and heavy flamers are now back to being unwieldy for example.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 09, 2018, 12:15:34 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on April 08, 2018, 04:58:29 PM
It's usually whatever the figures were produced in before they went out of production I think. So can be either, depending on the specific sculpt.
I think those re-released Juan Diaz Daemonettes metal? I'd like to see a Golgfag in metal instead of Finecast, but it's not going to happen, unless it's a naughty copy.  :-[

On the TGA fora, someone mentioned Oldhammer stuff, but I don't know what it means to him/her, as I doubt there will be a re-release of the Elven Attack Chariot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on April 09, 2018, 02:57:03 AM
Dr Matthias has it right, when he says that proofreading, among other things, is a lost art/skill. I really don't think that a rushed release is the reason for the mistakes in the Necromunda rules (or, indeed, in any recent GW rules). The problem is that basic editing and proofreading (and advanced editing and proofreading, for that matter) simply aren't taught anymore, at least at third-level, and they aren't much valued by modern employers. I've been a college professor for twenty years, and with each passing year students struggle more and more with these skills, and (it needs to be said) professors struggle to teach them as they themselves are the products of an education system in which these skills are no longer prioritized. Unfortunately, a failing education system will have a trickle-down effect when it comes to the quality of games publications too! There's no escape from it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 09, 2018, 05:15:52 AM
As someone who worked at a military college in the South here in the States...you would shudder to see the things I saw.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on April 09, 2018, 12:27:51 PM
Proof reading is exactly the problem with all the latest GW stuff.
That and the amount of books needed to play because rules are spread all over the place.
Necromunda only needed maybe 2 books maximum.
Now it feels like you need as many books as 40k games do.
Plus GW pdfs
And FW pdfs
And white dwarf lists.

No thank you.
Train wreck avoided.

Also not a fan of monopose models disguised as multipart kits
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 09, 2018, 02:59:40 PM
Sadly the monopose-multipart kits seems to be the standard now from GW, they put me right off building what was going to be my Primaris force.

I think I'm going to scratch my 40k & Necromunda itches with the Fistful of Lead Galactic Heroes rules; I fancy using old-school marines for 40k and some of the new Necromunda minis (suitably converted to tone down some elements) for gang fights.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cait Sidhe on April 09, 2018, 03:13:22 PM
Quote from: nic-e on April 08, 2018, 03:29:17 PM
if GW had put necromunda out with all the gangs ready, all the extra content in a big £90 rulebook then i'm sure the same people bemoaning the lack of (insert favourite gang) would also moan that there's too much to buy and they can't be bothered with the investment.

Why would the Necromunda rulebook cost £90!? Just because that's the cost of all these separate books they're releasing is proving the exact complaints people have. The original Necro had all the gangs (barring Outlanders) and didn't cost £90 for the rulebook, that's a mental argument. Regardless of which gang you play you still need all the rulebooks (and the full box set) because they're adding weapons, gear and other rules back in bit by bit so it isn't a case of "waiting" until your gang is released.  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 09, 2018, 08:20:56 PM
Quote from: Cait Sidhe on April 09, 2018, 03:13:22 PM
Why would the Necromunda rulebook cost £90!? Just because that's the cost of all these separate books they're releasing is proving the exact complaints people have. The original Necro had all the gangs (barring Outlanders) and didn't cost £90 for the rulebook, that's a mental argument. Regardless of which gang you play you still need all the rulebooks (and the full box set) because they're adding weapons, gear and other rules back in bit by bit so it isn't a case of "waiting" until your gang is released.  :(

£90 is hyperbole for "a large enough amount of money that people would moan about it."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cait Sidhe on April 09, 2018, 08:33:45 PM
Quote from: nic-e on April 09, 2018, 08:20:56 PM
£90 is hyperbole for "a large enough amount of money that people would moan about it."

Yes, I imagine people would "moan" about a £90 rulebook cause it's ludicrous. ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 09, 2018, 08:51:59 PM
Quote from: Cait Sidhe on April 09, 2018, 08:33:45 PM
Yes, I imagine people would "moan" about a £90 rulebook cause it's ludicrous. ;D

let's be honest, people would moan about any price because that's what they do.
It could be £5 and come with a free orgasm and people would moan that they didn't get a cuddle afterwards.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 09, 2018, 08:58:10 PM
Quote from: nic-e on April 09, 2018, 08:51:59 PM
let's be honest, people would moan about any price because that's what they do.
It could be £5 and come with a free orgasm and people would moan that they didn't get a cuddle afterwards.

Keep the cuddle and make me a sandwich.

How many times do I have to tell you?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 10, 2018, 11:30:23 AM
Quote from: nic-e on April 09, 2018, 08:51:59 PM
let's be honest, people would moan about any price because that's what they do.
It could be £5 and come with a free orgasm and people would moan that they didn't get a cuddle afterwards.
Of course people would moan if it came with a free orgasm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on April 10, 2018, 12:18:23 PM
 lol


Think the most I've paid for a single book is ~60 Euros.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 10, 2018, 12:36:42 PM
I bought a second hand copy of The lost and the damned a while back. I'm not going to say how much it cost. Suffice to say enough that I may get it professionally rebound.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 10, 2018, 05:08:46 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 10, 2018, 11:30:23 AM
Of course people would moan if it came with a free orgasm.
Well, I'd certainly hope they'd be getting their moany's worth.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: twrchtrwyth on April 10, 2018, 05:17:34 PM
 
Quote from: beefcake on April 10, 2018, 11:30:23 AM
Of course people would moan if it came with a free orgasm.
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 10, 2018, 06:51:41 PM
I'll admit...well played for most of this page.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 14, 2018, 04:49:17 PM
The deepkin are up for pre-order, with what I thought had to be a misprinted price when I first read it - Eidolon of Mathlann (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Eidolon-Of-Mathlann-2018) yours for merely £65.00.

I quite like the Thralls, but I really like the shipwreck, and it's reasonably priced at £25.00 (I actually thought they'd swapped the prices on the shipwreck and the figure). I have no idea what the warden figure is doing, although carrying your own ink supply with you makes sense, I suppose  lol

Still waiting patiently for the Van Saars, can't be too long now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 14, 2018, 06:44:19 PM
The blades of the Thrall's weapons are OTT and the eyeless heads still look odd. Perhaps they would have been better with helmets that cover the eyes.

I'd like to know when the Van Saar and Kill Team are released.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 14, 2018, 08:11:14 PM
Quote from: zemjw on April 14, 2018, 04:49:17 PM
The deepkin are up for pre-order, with what I thought had to be a misprinted price when I first read it - Eidolon of Mathlann (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Eidolon-Of-Mathlann-2018) yours for merely £65.00.

I quite like the Thralls, but I really like the shipwreck, and it's reasonably priced at £25.00 (I actually thought they'd swapped the prices on the shipwreck and the figure). I have no idea what the warden figure is doing, although carrying your own ink supply with you makes sense, I suppose  lol

Still waiting patiently for the Van Saars, can't be too long now.

For some reason the Idoneth Deepkin are the first thing that GW has released in ages that has me really wanting to buy into something of theirs for ages. I cant see myself playing AOS but I can see me getting some of those new releases to use elsewhere.
I love the Thralls and Shipwreck and do not think the price is too bad.
 :)

The Warden fella is great but I am not paying that much for a single figure and that big fella is a great idea but insanely priced.
  :o :o

Saying that, I may cave in on the beasties, though, as I really like them.
Especially the big turtle thingy....
 ::)

What am I saying???
 :o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on April 14, 2018, 10:11:42 PM
Personally while they look nice the deepkin are not for me, i'd just like to know when the rest of the named bounty hunters are out for necromunda, finally be able to use the rest of gang war 2...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on April 15, 2018, 11:58:16 AM
I think GW have been at the glue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 15, 2018, 05:33:55 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on April 15, 2018, 11:58:16 AM
I think GW have been at the glue.

I think that I have too....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on April 15, 2018, 05:51:27 PM
Having read the background I quite like the sea elves, although as usual for modern gw they are very ott in both fluff (a magical sea comes onto the land) and design.

30 quid for ten plastic models though, is that the new normal as well? Problem is I'd rather spend that 3 quid per figure on old models I don't yet have. Or non-gw plastics.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 15, 2018, 06:15:33 PM
Price is a tad steep ,But that eidolon of mathlann is absolutley gorgeous. It's such a coherent and elegant design,With the various aquatic design elements being so well meshed together, I could probably look at it for a good few hours and pick apart all the wonderful little motifs on his armour. And the water is fantasically done and
He's also quite a big bigger than i thought, I imagine he's a similar height to Archon the everchosen (minus the wings and a fair bit slighter.)  Not exactly £65 big but a very very good centrepiece figure.

I think the deepkin are going to be a popular faction regardless of price.

(Also £25 for that shipwreck is lovely. I'll be getting one of those for my town of mystport! )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on April 15, 2018, 10:14:00 PM
The water on the figures: how are painters of average ability or worse supposed to make that look good? There are going to be some expensive but iffy-looking models gracing the gaming tables of the world. GW take this approach to 'centrepiece' models far too far.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 15, 2018, 10:20:37 PM
Quote from: boneio on April 15, 2018, 05:51:27 PM
Having read the background I quite like the sea elves, although as usual for modern gw they are very ott in both fluff (a magical sea comes onto the land) and design.

I have no interest in any of the fluff for AOS, it all sounds like a load of tosh to me, but I do like some of the figures for use in other settings with a little imagination.

Quote from: boneio on April 15, 2018, 05:51:27 PM
30 quid for ten plastic models though, is that the new normal as well? Problem is I'd rather spend that 3 quid per figure on old models I don't yet have. Or non-gw plastics.

It does seem to be the norm.
For GW.
Plenty of sensibly priced plastics out there, and GW stuff is available much cheaper if you are patient and wait for people to get fed up and sell them on on ebay.
I have picked up a load of Stormcast for conversion at very cheap prices that way.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 15, 2018, 10:36:15 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on April 15, 2018, 10:14:00 PM
The water on the figures: how are painters of average ability or worse supposed to make that look good? There are going to be some expensive but iffy-looking models gracing the gaming tables of the world. GW take this approach to 'centrepiece' models far too far.

I admit that the idea of painting that wave cloak terrifies me! But when i started the hobby it was the big kits like that that I aspired too. Big centrepiece kits were what i always wanted to paint first but bought last ,partly cus i had to save for them but also because i wanted to make sure they looked the best! :)

I can easily see a new player looking at the new nurlge army, the daughters of khaine, or the deepkin, and building their army , learning to paint as they go, then finishing it off with that final special kit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 15, 2018, 11:52:53 PM
With AOS they really had the scope to make a new faction completely different to anything else. Maybe some sort of warp creatures that aren't chaos or something new born out of the breaking of the old world. Maybe the future will see something like this?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 16, 2018, 01:57:11 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 15, 2018, 11:52:53 PM
With AOS they really had the scope to make a new faction completely different to anything else. Maybe some sort of warp creatures that aren't chaos or something new born out of the breaking of the old world. Maybe the future will see something like this?

Well they teased a model that is a literal ball of pure magic, So they're certainly pushing the crazyness in some areas.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 16, 2018, 07:48:04 AM
I couldn’t find the cavalry or turtle? But I shudder to think how much , even the paint set seems expensive to me I must be getting old or poorer  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on April 16, 2018, 07:57:44 AM
Quote from: nic-e on April 16, 2018, 01:57:11 AM
Well they teased a model that is a literal ball of pure magic, So they're certainly pushing the crazyness in some areas.

Soooo, rainbow-coloured superball stuck on a flying stand?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on April 16, 2018, 08:24:23 AM
Quote from: FionaWhite on April 16, 2018, 07:57:44 AM
Quote
Well they teased a model that is a literal ball of pure magic, So they're certainly pushing the crazyness in some areas.
Soooo, rainbow-coloured superball stuck on a flying stand?

Well, that does sound better than a floating stone head with the features of David Copperfield... I guess they cannot copyright the latter, even though "it's magic!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on April 16, 2018, 08:35:52 AM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on April 16, 2018, 08:24:23 AM
Well, that does sound better than a floating stone head with the features of David Copperfield...

What the Dickens are we talking about?  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 16, 2018, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: Nord on April 16, 2018, 08:35:52 AM
What the Dickens are we talking about?  :D
The price of fish.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 16, 2018, 06:35:19 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on April 16, 2018, 06:24:39 PM
The price of fish elves   :D
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on April 16, 2018, 06:38:38 PM
Quote
Well, that does sound better than a floating stone head with the features of David Copperfield... I guess they cannot copyright the latter, even though "it's magic!"

Jeez, 44 years not remembering Sean Connery in Zardoz ... and you bring it all back!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 16, 2018, 08:00:27 PM
Quote from: Skyven on April 16, 2018, 06:38:38 PM
Jeez, 44 years not remembering Sean Connery in Zardoz ... and you bring it all back!

I can't ever forget! Zardoz was a wonderful shared thing in one of my circles of friends for years (and still is, a little).

Of course Charlotte Rampling's Consuella is a wonderful tonic for one's memory... (don't tell my wife  ;D )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on April 16, 2018, 08:04:02 PM
ZARDOZ speaks to you.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BioEFqJtVnQ/maxresdefault.jpg)

I have seen the future, and it does not work.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on April 16, 2018, 08:11:28 PM
Quote from: Charlie_ on April 16, 2018, 08:04:02 PM
ZARDOZ speaks to you.
Sheesh. My English Lit teacher was into John Boorman films. I had to write essays about Zardoz when I was at school.

There are times when I think that is all in the past. Then someone makes me remember it.

In fairness, a big floating stone head would fit right in with the Age of Sigmar stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 16, 2018, 09:26:08 PM
Quote from: Cultist of Sooty on April 16, 2018, 08:11:28 PM
Sheesh. My English Lit teacher was into John Boorman films. I had to write essays about Zardoz when I was at school.

There are times when I think that is all in the past. Then someone makes me remember it.

In fairness, a big floating stone head would fit right in with the Age of Sigmar stuff.

There is (was*) a giant moon that had been hijacked by demons and given to a khorne warlord to use as a floating death fortress.
(I say was because during the malign portents the players voted to use ancient arcana scattered about the realms to construct a magical gun that shot it back in time , to a point where Lizardmen were busy doing something with it, causing all kinds of time warp carnage.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on April 17, 2018, 08:17:54 PM
I found a website a few years ago which sold not-ZARDOZ and some not-Boorman-Excalibur miniatures but can’t for the life of me remember what company it was.

On topic; I like the deepkin types but can’t see them having a massive appeal really... though the Thralls do remind me of Falmer from the Elder Scrolls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 17, 2018, 08:46:07 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on April 17, 2018, 08:17:54 PM
I found a website a few years ago which sold not-ZARDOZ and some not-Boorman-Excalibur miniatures but can’t for the life of me remember what company it was.

Rogue Miniatures do a Not-Merlin, maybe they have Zardoz too....

http://www.rogueminiatures.co.uk/index.php/sword-miniatures/jack-miniature-35.html

Edit: They also have Arthur and Mordred.
I could not find Zardoz, though....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 17, 2018, 09:23:18 PM
I was thinking earlier that the deepkin are probably the largest departure GW have ever done from the standard Tolkienesque fantasy archetypes.
While I must admit I'm not big into elves, I can't think of any other games with such off the wall elves as AOS now has.
And we still have a couple more elven races to go yet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on April 17, 2018, 10:33:00 PM
I'm not really into the elves themselves, but I dig the look on some of those sea creatures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 18, 2018, 06:56:47 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on April 17, 2018, 08:17:54 PM
I found a website a few years ago which sold not-ZARDOZ and some not-Boorman-Excalibur miniatures but can’t for the life of me remember what company it was.

On topic; I like the deepkin types but can’t see them having a massive appeal really... though the Thralls do remind me of Falmer from the Elder Scrolls.

I can confirm that I can also recall such a figure, but unfortunately I can't remember who made it either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on April 18, 2018, 09:39:05 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on April 18, 2018, 06:56:47 PM
I can confirm that I can also recall such a figure, but unfortunately I can't remember who made it either.

It was the war store (http://www.thewarstore.com/cgi-thewarstore/sb/productsearch.cgi?search_field=exterminator)

They used to also do a zed and zardoz masks (http://www.40kforums.com/vb/showthread.php/7465-Zardoz-army-New-miniatures-from-te-war-store!/page2)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 19, 2018, 09:13:31 AM
There was a panel at the last PAX about the entanglement of metal/rock and roleplaying games, with a good segment dedicated to GW and Warhammer records (that was a thing?!) The youtube video was taken down due to copyright claims (you get that with music) but you can watch it here. I found it rather amusing.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dbk500xi2pj7g4v/power%20word%20rock.mp4?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dbk500xi2pj7g4v/power%20word%20rock.mp4?dl=0)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on April 19, 2018, 06:13:42 PM
Quote from: YPU on April 19, 2018, 09:13:31 AM
Warhammer records (that was a thing?!)

Definitely. I recall an album by Man'O'War on the Warhammer label.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on April 19, 2018, 06:26:24 PM
Quote from: Argonor on April 19, 2018, 06:13:42 PM
Definitely. I recall an album by Man'O'War on the Warhammer label.

I think the most successful band on the label were probably the nightly Bolt Thrower, who are still very good. Their album Realm of Chaos is a british death metal classic and it’s all 40k.

I also remember a band called Laaz Rokkit.

Nowadays they can’t use the original artwork though because they basically lifted it from existing GW sources.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: meninobesta on April 19, 2018, 09:05:39 PM
Unfortunately they disbanded a couple of years ago, after their drummer passed away  :(

back to the underwater stuff: that shipwreck seems to be a glorified piece of aquarium decoration
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 19, 2018, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: meninobesta on April 19, 2018, 09:05:39 PM
Unfortunately they disbanded a couple of years ago, after their drummer passed away  :(

back to the underwater stuff: that shipwreck seems to be a glorified piece of aquarium decoration

but given the size it's probably cheaper . the cheapest one on pets at home is £30 .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 20, 2018, 04:39:27 AM
Ali express (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/24-12cm-Large-Aquarium-Decoration-Plactic-Aquarium-Ship-Boat-Air-Split-Shipwreck-Fish-Tank-Decor-Wreck/32672210788.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.36.6fc722bbVoBw9b&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10344_10068_5722815_10342_10547_10343_10340_5722915_10548_10341_10698_5722615_10697_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_5722715_5711215_10059_308_100031_10103_441_10624_10623_10622_5711315_5722515_10621_10620,searchweb201603_28,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=db08928e-9f98-40b9-b113-20b316ef7d22-5&algo_pvid=db08928e-9f98-40b9-b113-20b316ef7d22&transAbTest=ae803_2&priceBeautifyAB=0)

$12 AUD

24cm long
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 20, 2018, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 20, 2018, 04:39:27 AM
Ali express (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/24-12cm-Large-Aquarium-Decoration-Plactic-Aquarium-Ship-Boat-Air-Split-Shipwreck-Fish-Tank-Decor-Wreck/32672210788.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.36.6fc722bbVoBw9b&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10152_10065_10151_10344_10068_5722815_10342_10547_10343_10340_5722915_10548_10341_10698_5722615_10697_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_5722715_5711215_10059_308_100031_10103_441_10624_10623_10622_5711315_5722515_10621_10620,searchweb201603_28,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=db08928e-9f98-40b9-b113-20b316ef7d22-5&algo_pvid=db08928e-9f98-40b9-b113-20b316ef7d22&transAbTest=ae803_2&priceBeautifyAB=0)

$12 AUD

24cm long

But £20-40 shipping if I want it this month. Also while nice, it looks like more of a 15mm scale ship looking at the details. Could be useful for a small pirate project though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on April 24, 2018, 09:23:59 AM
Van saar next week, apparently at least one brute(the ambot) gets rules plus pets on top of armory/van saar rules.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/04/22/coming-next-week-the-isharann-doom-lords-and-van-saar/

Also orlock special character soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Juxt on April 24, 2018, 10:44:22 AM
Damn! That's one of the best looking cyber-hounds I've seen.  Pity I don't play sci-fi games that often anymore  :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on April 24, 2018, 10:51:16 AM
Well, I've bought into AoS with Khorne Bloodbound. I think with a different paint scheme they can fit into a Japanese-esque gothic dark fantasy setting (ala Berserk), whilst still being useable for AoS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 28, 2018, 09:56:14 AM
New necromunda stuff up for pre order at Forgeworld https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/searchResults?N=926345243+995043222

Multi part resin £18 to £20 per figure

Van Saar up as well https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Necromunda-Van-Saar-Gang-2018

£25 for the gang, out 5th May. I've been looking forward to these guys, got a birthday voucher to spend  :D

Edit to add van saars
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on April 28, 2018, 06:02:23 PM
Played some Shadespire last night. Actually a really good game, and I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 28, 2018, 07:39:22 PM
I had a look at the van sarr sprue pictures. I like bits, But i looked at it for a long time before syaing "well...that's certainly a sprue of bits!"

I was also thinking, for the price, I can't think of a way to get ten figures of comparable quality in any material. The closest comparison i could think of would be infinity minis in terms of style and detail, But you'd still be looking at double that price for ten , and the same for that many malifaux figures.
It just struck me as curious that where GW has pushed plastic figures to insane new levels, Alot of companies have caught up with them in price.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 28, 2018, 08:21:34 PM
I noticed torso and legs separately on the sprue, rather than the 3/4 of a figure they've been pushing recently. I'm hoping they are as generic as they look and the parts aren't keyed together.

However, given that there are only five poses and the duplicate poses look to have the same legs and torsos, I suspect I'm going to be disappointed :'(

The weird ponytails will be the first things to go, but other than that, I get a corporate hit squad vibe from them. I'm not sure I would field them as a single unit, but sprinkled in amongst some other groups they could make good leaders/specialists.

I appreciate that kind of breaks the whole Necromundan gang thing they have going, but I'm thinking of them for use with other rules...

Pricewise the new sets are good value, especially when compared to £18 per Necromundan hero from Forge World announced today.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 28, 2018, 08:52:16 PM
The weird ponytails will be the first things to go, but other than that, I get a corporate hit squad vibe from them. I'm not sure I would field them as a single unit, but sprinkled in amongst some other groups they could make good leaders/specialists.
[/quote]

Agree with the above and i am probably going to get some but those tecno-tails have got to go!

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 28, 2018, 09:11:47 PM
I also wonder how versatile they will be to assemble, and was pleased by the seemingly flexible layout from looking at the sprue. Although plastic is obviously the easiest material for conversions anyway, I too am quite disappointed with the trend of very much mulitpart but hardly multipose plastics. When weapon X can only be used with body Y, pretty much all gangs just end up looking the same, which I found quite striking with the Goliath and Escher gangs I've seen.

Quite like the Van Saar aesthetic too by the way. When it comes to Necromunda and Bloodbowl, I think they have generally done a pretty fantastic job reimagining the various teams/gangs, retaining the core elements of their design, but making them so much more modern looking.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 28, 2018, 09:15:55 PM
It does let them sell you and additional weapons sprue from forge world  at inflated prices.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on April 28, 2018, 09:49:54 PM
The van saar sprues are very odd, this from the online store stands out:

''- 2 each of 5 body designs, each wearing armoured bodygloves, which can be assembled in 2 recommended ways:
- Body 1 can be armed with a lasgun and power knife, or a suppression laser
- Body 2 can be armed with a plasma gun and shock stave, or a rad cannon;
- Body 3 can be armed with a lascarbine or a lasgun
- Body 4 can be armed with a combi weapon (lasgun/melta) and Hrystrar pattern energy shield, or a lasgun
- Body 5 can be armed with 2 plasma pistols, or 2 laspistols;
- 20 heads – 12 bare, 8 helmeted – which can be attached to any body you wish;
- 10 pairs of shoulder pads;''

The bounty hunters are too expensive, especially the more useless ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 29, 2018, 01:05:28 AM
Forgeworld prices are utterly absurd. I'm bordering on a GW fanboy these days (somehow) and I still think FW take the piss. Their resin and casting quality isn't even that great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on April 29, 2018, 01:21:49 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on April 28, 2018, 09:49:54 PM
The van saar sprues are very odd, this from the online store stands out:

''- 2 each of 5 body designs, each wearing armoured bodygloves, which can be assembled in 2 recommended ways:
- Body 1 can be armed with a lasgun and power knife, or a suppression laser
- Body 2 can be armed with a plasma gun and shock stave, or a rad cannon;
- Body 3 can be armed with a lascarbine or a lasgun
- Body 4 can be armed with a combi weapon (lasgun/melta) and Hrystrar pattern energy shield, or a lasgun
- Body 5 can be armed with 2 plasma pistols, or 2 laspistols;
- 20 heads – 12 bare, 8 helmeted – which can be attached to any body you wish;
- 10 pairs of shoulder pads;''

The bounty hunters are too expensive, especially the more useless ones.


Yeah....I like me some kitbashing but the thought of putting those models together is giving me a headache!  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 29, 2018, 08:10:12 AM
Ah, that's a shame then - just more fixed combinations after all.

As for the Forge World products, the weapon packs (Escher at least, haven't looked into the Goliath ones) seem a bit like the Necromunda books: some nice things spread over several products, trying to make you purchase them all. Providing some additional weapon options separately is great (although resin seems a suboptimal material for the needle weaponry!). Having three expensive packs with quite an amount of overlap, however, not so much. Some options once again won't fit particular bodies because of the way they have been designed, meaning you may also need another pack to have the same weapon but fitting torso B.

Liking the look of the figures though, and I expect Belladonna and Slate to be quite popular as (the basis for) gang leader models. I know Belladonna will find her way to my desktop for that same reason; it's only a matter of time before a leader starts missing as many bits and pieces as she has had replaced with technology...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 29, 2018, 09:30:48 AM
Given the repeated poses, for a skirmish game I can't see myself using these in numbers bigger than 5...luckily that should be spot on for the Fistful of Lead: Galactic Heroes rules so I'm happy enough in that regard.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on May 03, 2018, 02:03:18 PM
I have the first two gangs for Necromunda and all the nostalgia in the world couldn’t get me past the horrible weird GW construction. Obviously they don’t want other companies to mix with them. They can’t even mix with themselves as a result.

Absolutely hated building my two gangs. Never played.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lolbat on May 03, 2018, 02:22:57 PM
I am still thinking about getting the Van Saar boxed set to build for Rogue Stars or AE: Bounty where the limits on build types isn’t as big a deal. The entire Necromunda line has been designed in an odd way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hawkeye on May 03, 2018, 11:14:11 PM
I love the look of the Van Saar models, but before I pick them up I think I'll have to take the plunge and get the core game. I love Mordheim, but missed out on Necromunda somehow, and I don't really want to let it happen a second time, even though I get very little gaming in these days. Plus, the core game actually seems like a pretty good deal - particularly since there's no guarantee that the rules will come out separately, or if they do, that they'll be a reasonable price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on May 04, 2018, 08:11:55 AM
Quote from: grant on May 03, 2018, 02:03:18 PM
I have the first two gangs for Necromunda and all the nostalgia in the world couldn’t get me past the horrible weird GW construction. Obviously they don’t want other companies to mix with them. They can’t even mix with themselves as a result.

Absolutely hated building my two gangs. Never played.

Agreed.

I'm working (struggling) through the Escher gang at the moment. Putting models together is the part of the hobby I hate the most anyway but working on these models has caused me to turn the air blue on more than a few occasions. I got so frustrated with the restrictive combos that I've made up 4 models and haven't gone back to them in over a fortnight.

Case in point:
If you want to use the jacket on the Eschers, the only arms that then work with it is the shock whip and combi needle rifle/boltgun arms - so if you want to change the load out and still have the jacket look right, you need to chop the weapons up. The whip hand is fine if you change it to something like a power sword, but the combi weapon?

What a hassle.

Due to the design and the position of the arm and gun, it is next to impossible to remove the old weapon cleanly without damaging the shoulder pad and upper arm, and if you don't have much in the way of green stuff skills, it is hard to fix it up and get it looking okay.

I got there in the end, but it seemed to be far harder than it had any right to be for a plastic model.

Why couldn't they have done it so that all the weapons can connect to the arms at the wrists to allow different combos to be done easily?

 >:(

I'll try and finish the gang up at the weekend, but man, it is a chore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on May 04, 2018, 09:33:46 AM
Know what you mean, the goliath kit is decent, it annoys me no end that the orlock kit has so man extras fixed on like the tool kits and satchels.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 04, 2018, 02:17:05 PM
Yeah; even with the first edition back in the day, it always irked me that they casually stated in their rulebooks that models needed to be converted as they progressed in a campaign. So you needed to model each and every change in loadout and other modifications.

No matter which group I've played the game with though, we have always done away with the WYSIWYG 'rules', as it was an achievement in itself to have a fully painted gang each campaign, and like would we cut up models that had our best possible paintjobs applied.

And remember the poses on those metal models? Most were actually pretty easy to convert, but there were some poses in there that made it virtually impossible to remove/replace a weapon or limb without having to resculpt half the mini.

Not to mention that as poor students, we could ill afford buying an entire new gang for each campaign. Although it's obvious what GW were thinking about that... ::)

Then came the 2nd wave of miniatures, with a lot more posability and modularity in regards to weapon loadout. But the only gangs that were sculpted to an acceptable standard (IMHO) were van Saar and the Enforcers (I really disliked the Orlocks and Goliaths, and I don't think there were more gangs) and the ranges were pretty shortlived too.

So the entire difficult to convert thing is not new. Which is surprising, considering GW's drive to keep everything WYSIWYG (and sales up ;) ). I had hoped that the new plastics would make converting a breeze. But let's face it; even with the abovementioned issues, it's still many times easier than cutting through a metal miniature with nothing at hand but a blunted X-Acto knife lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on May 04, 2018, 03:09:09 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on May 04, 2018, 02:17:05 PM
But let's face it; even with the abovementioned issues, it's still many times easier than cutting through a metal miniature with nothing at hand but a blunted X-Acto knife lol
Ah... I don't know what's worse: when you're unable to get through, or when you suddenly do...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 04, 2018, 03:12:05 PM
Trust the voice of experience and many scars; it's the latter. Definitely the latter...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on May 04, 2018, 03:53:27 PM
Cleaning the mould lines off the Eschers has been one of my least favourite hobby experiences ever.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on May 04, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
Necromunda team leader Andy Hoare mentioned on the Twitch stream that the Van Saars are rather more versatile than I had orignally given them credit for - as per the webstore list, the fairly limited options mentioned (two per body) are purely recommendations; designed to fit that body pose particularly well. Most arms have the same joints, allowing for all kinds of additional poses and combinations besides those mentioned.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on May 04, 2018, 11:20:48 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on May 04, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
Necromunda team leader Andy Hoare mentioned on the Twitch stream that the Van Saars are rather more versatile than I had orignally given them credit for - as per the webstore list, the fairly limited options mentioned (two per body) are purely recommendations; designed to fit that body pose particularly well. Most arms have the same joints, allowing for all kinds of additional poses and combinations besides those mentioned.

I know they would never admit it but GW must recognise the potential for certain ranges to get used outside of their own systems; they’re too business savvy not to. It’s be silly for them not to make gangs like Van Saar a touch more modular!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on May 05, 2018, 01:53:57 PM
There are systems.. outside of Games Workshop? There is more to the hobby? What is this heresy you speak of?!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 05, 2018, 04:40:51 PM
On another note, The back cover of this months White dwarf is actually the baord for a game included in the magazine, battle between two wizards.

you can use minis, or you could make paper chits. A nice bit of oldschool paper wargaming.
And I believe it has been written by the chap that wrote the hinterlands expansion for AOS, who was hired by GW on the back of his fan made content.

Also this lovely little story went up recently on the malign portents website. There have been a few really good ones on there that fleshed out the world of age of sigmar, but this one that deals with the actual cost of death and reforging for a stormcast eternal is very cool. It gives you an idea of why , despite immortality, these warriors really would rather not die and do have a stake in their own survival and victory.

https://malignportents.com/story/the-price-of-apotheosis/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on May 06, 2018, 02:34:10 PM
Who's splashing out (pun intended) £140 for two flying turtles then, eh?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on May 06, 2018, 05:04:14 PM
Not me that’s for sure .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on May 06, 2018, 09:48:10 PM
I should of course have said shelling out. What was I thinking?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 06, 2018, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on May 06, 2018, 09:48:10 PM
I should of course have said shelling out. What was I thinking?

At least we have learned not to make the same mistake. Your example has taught-us.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on May 07, 2018, 02:39:17 PM
Quote from: Cubs on May 06, 2018, 10:18:47 PM
At least we have learned not to make the same mistake. Your example has taught-us.
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on May 08, 2018, 09:06:35 PM
Bought the van saar boxed set over the weekend, tbh not all that impressed.

They minis are detailed but given the lack of interchangeability, I don't see the point in having the legs as separate pieces for example.

Also puzzled as why the made the shock mace and energy shield the same(left) arm, one right and one left so they can be wielded together would have made more sense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 08, 2018, 09:45:33 PM
It's disappointing that the Necromunda kits aren't as good as they should be. I am tempted to get the Van Saar box but for Fistful of Lead so I will only need 5 minis; I guess the lack of options won't be such an issue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 08, 2018, 10:32:05 PM
I'm working the clsing shift tomorrow and I plan on solo gaming the little boardgame on the back of white dwarf to myself...
I'll give a report  lol

EDIT:

I decided to combine this game with my current interest in oldschool monochrome hex and chit games, So i knocked this up using the promo pics from white dwarf and the "what you need" section from warhammer community.
Nothing complex, But a little excersize in simplifying a design.
GS=gaunt summoner
H 1 = blue horror.
H 2 = pink horror
H 3 = brimstone horror.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 10, 2018, 07:58:31 PM
New boxed game ( according to rumours Box for the Kill Team previeved some time ago) ROgue trader squad vs .. you guessed it Nurgle.. (luckily it looks like they will be easily de-nurgled)

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MJWMS1rWsXU/WvRiVSMKWwI/AAAAAAABa-A/w5N9ruMjqV4oFH53I6KxQhWz_-eOqUYyACLcBGAs/s1600/roguetraders1.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pZN34bGNWJ8/WvRiVTrbVDI/AAAAAAABa98/aa67Synua-YL7ugD7YqMo8W81co_n889ACLcBGAs/s1600/roguetraders2.jpg)

Most of the guys looks super cool, but I am not sure about Raypunk infantry.. Their helmets looks like from Wenus not from 40k. But heads are easy swaps (And fights with Amazons from Wenus could be an intriguing perspective.. not everyday has to be grimdark.. :).

I love me space doberman.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on May 10, 2018, 08:06:01 PM
My first thought was ''Plastic Plague Ogyrns!!'' and my 2nd was ''I guess the other stuff is cool too..'' lol :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 10, 2018, 08:19:00 PM
I really love the look of those guard/crew? in the corner, and their flak jacketed dog.
They have areal retro space vibe, but with the added grimmy veneer of 40k. I foresee them being worked into many a blanchitsu project.


Also this months white dwarf, well worth the cost for the mini game. It's good fun. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 10, 2018, 08:19:27 PM
They are cyber plague ogryns.. But as long as they dont have those ugly horns that plague latest nurgle releases I am happy - as they will be easy to de nurgle..

Slaneesh excess ogryns here I come!

Quote from: nic-e on May 10, 2018, 08:19:00 PM
Also this months white dwarf, well worth the cost for the mini game. It's good fun.

I got it for Venator gang but I am tempted by the game with some proxies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 10, 2018, 08:36:10 PM
Quote from: AWu on May 10, 2018, 08:19:27 PM
They are cyber plague ogryns.. But as long as they dont have those ugly horns that plague latest nurgle releases I am happy - as they will be easy to de nurgle..

Slaneesh excess ogryns here I come!

I got it for Venator gang but I am tempted by the game with some proxies.

Give it a try, I've heard it described as being a bit like magic the gathering in the way you cast and counter spells, But it's really just a very lice little dicepool game with a bit of resource management and tactical planning thrown in. It's not a game that would warrant a full GW release, But I could see it easily filling the role of something like love letter at game night , A 10 minute time filler.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 10, 2018, 09:04:41 PM
I'm not a fan of the Nurgle guys but will see when the proper pics drop. The Imperials guys look ok but blurry.

I was surprised to see Archaon inducted into the Hall of Fame in the new WD, especially given it was chosen for composition. When I look at it my eye is drawn all over the place, I think its a messy-overly-detailed mini.

On the plus side I actually enjoyed a 40k battle report for the first time in ages.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 10, 2018, 09:25:11 PM
I agree on mis-hall of faming.. Especially that model is quite new. I guess is marketing ploy to boost sales
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 10, 2018, 09:27:32 PM
So... A new boxed skirmish game , called rogue trader.
Mutants, inquistition agents, and FUNKY DISCO GROOVES.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZcAQ03hB6w

(Is that what the guardians of the galaxy would be in the 40k universe? )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on May 10, 2018, 09:31:04 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 10, 2018, 09:27:32 PM
So... A new boxed skirmish game , called rogue trader.
Mutants, inquistition agents, and FUNKY DISCO GROOVES.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZcAQ03hB6w

(Is that what the guardians of the galaxy would be in the 40k universe? )

oh my. that's a bold move cotton, but it might just pay off for them
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on May 10, 2018, 09:38:47 PM
Cripes, I still need to paint Necromunda and this is coming down the pipe?

Slow down GW!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 10, 2018, 09:44:44 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on May 10, 2018, 09:38:47 PM
Cripes, I still need to paint Necromunda and this is coming down the pipe?

Slow down GW!!!

Aint no breaks on the money train....

This one really feels like GW looking at the blanchitsu/Inq28 movement and going "hey that's cool...let's make them a boxed game and see what they do."
I'm really curious to see what else is in the box, cus so far it looks like a really pretty mix of retro 50s sci fi, steampunk and body horror.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 10, 2018, 09:51:43 PM
YT link seems broken but better photos than on the previous page surfaced

(http://i.imgur.com/yKYX0X6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4lCl5Ac.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/UVoTlVa.jpg)
Meet Tentacle my slaneshian ogryn.. he plays in a band, likes to sniff cocaine and have fondness for japaneese schoolgirls..
(http://i.imgur.com/BFHQSdx.jpg)

Assasin is an Ace
(http://i.imgur.com/W2Sbd2R.jpg)

But Tech adept is waste of plastic in such lovely set :O
(http://i.imgur.com/cAIvMct.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on May 10, 2018, 09:55:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb9eMhoFg8I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 10, 2018, 10:00:58 PM
they took it down and reuploaded it after spelling the title as rouge trader.
You'd think after so many years they'd know to double check that ;)  lol

Still tho, Damn.
I like the look of the (waht i'm assuming is ) rogue trader, the woman with a big turtleneck and amazing hat. I like the medic ,the Jes goodwin style crewmen...
The mutants are a sort of chaos undivided mix. there's alot of nurgle in there for sure, but then I'm also seeing alot of general chaosy bits. they're also very mechanical..could be a rogue inquisitor/tech priest has been up to no good at the galactic edge?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Inso on May 10, 2018, 10:06:48 PM
Could it be a ship-bound version of Arbites?... and are those Chaos Dwarfs?!

There are some VERY interesting items in there :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on May 11, 2018, 01:59:12 AM
Damn, I'm impressed. It looks like GW has been researching their fanbase's creations. This is a must-buy.

Quote from: nic-e on May 10, 2018, 10:00:58 PM
they took it down and reuploaded it after spelling the title as rouge trader.
You'd think after so many years they'd know to double check that ;)  lol

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on May 11, 2018, 04:51:44 AM
I'm thinking this is a WHQ adventure game that narrates the fallout of a Gellar field mishap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 11, 2018, 06:39:35 AM
This does look good; and if it's ship-based I'd name the latter The Rouge Trader  :D :D
Red ones go fasta anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 11, 2018, 07:55:20 AM
From what I can see I like the crew troopers and the assassin is ok but the rest are too cartoony for my tastes. I am surprised they didn't go dark and gritty given its Rogue Trader.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Juxt on May 11, 2018, 08:13:38 AM
I hope that the cartoony feel is more down to the paintjobs than the sculpts, and I'd love it if the models were split into sensible components. The smaller models are really grabbing my attention and if the box is reasonably priced I'll be getting it for the nurglings, flies, maggots, dog etc alone (then parting out the bigger dudes to those who want 'em)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 11, 2018, 09:09:24 AM
A girl with feathers and hidden face is totally Blanche style.  Blanschest model they did in the last decade. We cant clearly see the medic. Only Tech priest put me off. But he will be salvageable with a hobby knife and some bad attitude. Cartoony is in the paintjobs. Do some washing on these white helmets and they stop looking like that :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 11, 2018, 10:43:45 AM
Paintjobs on studio models never sell the sculpts very well. They have to be clean and crisp, which doesn't fit with a big box of blanchitsu bait. No doubt when in hand the blanchitsu crowd will work wonders with these.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 11, 2018, 02:15:52 PM
Agree. Some of them lately are making me dislike fine models,  Sly Marbo is good example.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 11, 2018, 02:28:05 PM
Totally agree with nic-e that GW seem to be reflecting inspiration back from the Blanchitsu folk on this - my first thought on seeing the troopers was "They look like something Migs on Ironsleet would do".

I have a feeling the Imperial stuff from this will go very nicely with the Van Saar kit for conversions. I am excite!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: area23 on May 11, 2018, 06:40:31 PM
This is really cool. I'm really amazed with GW since the Genestealer cult. It's just getting better all the time.
I personally love the pulpy rogue trader crew and I really like the mad techpriest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on May 11, 2018, 06:58:28 PM
Wow all i need now is some re-imagined Logans world characters and i will truly be in :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on May 11, 2018, 09:49:01 PM
Not too excited about yet more Nurgle, but that is rather compensated for by the other figures - the troopers look very nice. And that dog! Looking forward to seeing some close-ups of the other characters. And that dog!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dentatus on May 11, 2018, 10:12:57 PM
I'll get a copy if only for those quirky models. If the game itself is good, I might well find myself becoming a GW fanboy in my dotage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on May 12, 2018, 09:40:59 AM
What I see doesn't do much for me. It might be because 40k's lore is all 'everything is terrible forever so have a few latin puns while you skin your friend's face off' but I guess some of it might be nice if it's not a hundred dollarlydoos for ten guys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 12, 2018, 11:05:34 AM
I have to say new undead model are great! I was always bone guy (deathrattle IIRC in current terminology) but those wraith things are little wonders.

(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32260440_1797248346962420_7472700340022804480_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=50107eb157dc9440daa682585453db30&oe=5B83FC91)
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32235654_1797248403629081_2655738313893216256_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9f0e235104bb23606810963c9278ac06&oe=5B544D9D)
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32376723_1797248466962408_8456843365202264064_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=d078306ac962fc235007d14eea1bb26d&oe=5B50FBD5)
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32323608_1797248833629038_8500525196942245888_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=3552ee32df1aebab631633a205d9d3a4&oe=5B4FD8FD)
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32293686_1797249013629020_8327426006184886272_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7aa7836828ed86176519b1d8f146f1d7&oe=5B5205A6)
(https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32294713_1797248663629055_1399024728395481088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=6cfe64d98152016d25570ed628ea0199&oe=5B9A1C53)
Ok.. this might be little overdone :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 12, 2018, 11:17:48 AM
Now, GW's style doesn't do it for me lately, but these are very good and a perfect example of getting the best out of modern materials. You couldn't have done these in metal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 12, 2018, 11:46:52 AM
Totally agree. Although I have slight suspicion that despite the plastic an axe shaft of the last one may be a weak spot  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on May 12, 2018, 12:34:20 PM
They do look nice, but transporting them looks like it'd be a nightmare.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 12, 2018, 12:44:26 PM
These are really nice.

I'm not a fan of the gibbet on the last guy but that should be easy to remove for those inclined.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on May 12, 2018, 01:30:13 PM
2nd edition AoS sounds rather exciting to me and those Undead things while not my cup of tea are still really tasty.

But this is what I wanted too see:

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/WHfestLiveBlog-Post12-30-SororitasMain1cd.jpg)

Staying classic but just updated, perfect :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 12, 2018, 01:57:04 PM
Lots of pictures of 8-10mm titan stuff floating around the web as well, not sure to the legality of the pictures so I won't post them here, but its definitely interesting stuff. multiple plastic boxes as well as modular terrain.

EDIT: BoW are now hostic pictures of it, which I guess means they are OK to post

(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Adeptus-Titanicus.jpg)

(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Adeptus-Titanicus-Single.jpg)

(http://www.beastsofwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Adeptus-Titanicus-Terrain.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on May 12, 2018, 04:03:08 PM
Well that Sororitas is about perfect as far as I'm concerned.

Undead are sweet too.

Games Workshop got an injection of something good a couple years ago, what a turn around.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on May 12, 2018, 04:26:15 PM
Love the undead, and those titans are nice too
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tomrommel1 on May 12, 2018, 05:05:21 PM
Some more pictures of the Sisters:
(https://wargamesgazette.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/img_2669.jpg)

(https://wargamesgazette.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/img_2668.jpg)

(https://wargamesgazette.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/img_2667.jpg)

(https://wargamesgazette.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/img_2666.jpg)

(https://wargamesgazette.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/img_2665.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on May 12, 2018, 05:14:05 PM
Can’t wait for the knights - they’ll definitely be fine for 6mm, regardless of the notional scale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 12, 2018, 06:57:37 PM
Quote from: Jagannath on May 12, 2018, 05:14:05 PM
Can’t wait for the knights - they’ll definitely be fine for 6mm, regardless of the notional scale.

Goes for all the Titans really, they are ludicrously large anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 12, 2018, 07:01:56 PM
BoLS has some more details of the Titanicus release details including he boxes and terrain

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/05/breaking-adeptus-titanicus-more-details-mini-pics-video.html

I am officially now not buying anything until August
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 12, 2018, 07:02:41 PM
I was none plussed about titanicus before .

Now , seeing it on the table with that lovely terrain, seeing that its plastic... I want it. It's so freaking adorable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on May 12, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
I like the SOB i really do, but i am sad that the face is less "Debbie Harry" than the picture, sigh.

Oh well you can't have everything
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 12, 2018, 07:19:36 PM
I dunno about Titanicus...back in the day it was gunna be my first game but the chap in the shop suggested Space Hulk instead. I really liked that kinda beetle-carapace look but the new titans are just kinda bland in comparison.

I am intrigued by the idea of a new AoS edition and the talk of the improvements in fluff as the current version was very lacking in that department. Still...I can't really see me buying it.

It's a shame that nothing seems to have been seen or heard of Kill Team.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 12, 2018, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on May 12, 2018, 07:19:26 PM
I like the SOB i really do, but i am sad that the face is less "Debbie Harry" than the picture, sigh.

Oh well you can't have everything
Speaking from experience, the painting can get you there though. It's all in how it's handled.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 12, 2018, 08:31:23 PM
Battle Bunnies have some great photos

http://battlebunnies.blogspot.ca/2018/05/adeptus-titanicus.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 12, 2018, 08:51:41 PM
I do wonder if this might damage the overheads of smaller companies like vanuard, that have done a wonderful job filling the gap left by epic. Those GW modular titanicus buildings look amazing , and seem like they are poised to kick the legs from under vanguards own range of plastic epic scale scenery.

EditL:

Also god damn the AOS stuff is cool. The stormcast artillery is great, I've wanted big stormcast ballistai since the start . The undead are gorgeous. the physical spell models look gnarly as hell and seem like they could add alot of fun to the game. (or see alot of use in rpgs)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 12, 2018, 10:17:30 PM
More pictures of the stormcasts and undead.

The stormcasts are actually gorgeous. These are so dynamic, they really look liek they're in the middle of a fight. The war machine and engineers look really cool, very masters of the universe in a good way.
I can see myself restarting my stormcast project....

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNcHW34YxMMBW7PW_4K-NGZDtNzWx_rf9zyhvasZh73UyuUcrzH3xJErEzr42qrdg?key=bzhSR1F4amhBcUFJbVptMHBoa2dQQmJWX1ZtR1JB

https://www.facebook.com/Garro30k/photos/pcb.1797250433628878/1797248340295754/?type=3&theater
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on May 12, 2018, 11:11:59 PM
This popped up on my twitter, colour me surpised if real.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on May 12, 2018, 11:17:59 PM

Titanicus is actually looking interesting although I'd hope for more representation than just Imperium and evil Imperium.

Quote from: Kommando_J on May 12, 2018, 11:11:59 PM
This popped up on my twitter, colour me surpised if real.

That is a real if alternate manufacturer made mini.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on May 12, 2018, 11:43:29 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on May 12, 2018, 11:17:59 PM
Titanicus is actually looking interesting although I'd hope for more representation than just Imperium and evil Imperium.

The original started out like that and expanded, I guess it really depends how successful the initial release is to how much gets added.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on May 12, 2018, 11:54:13 PM
Quote from: voltan on May 12, 2018, 11:43:29 PM
The original started out like that and expanded, I guess it really depends how successful the initial release is to how much gets added.

Here's hoping then, I guess. Worst case, I can still see the terrain being useful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on May 13, 2018, 12:00:39 AM
Quote from: FionaWhite on May 12, 2018, 11:17:59 PM
Titanicus is actually looking interesting although I'd hope for more representation than just Imperium and evil Imperium.

That is a real if alternate manufacturer made mini.

Kinda relieved, also tbh the new SoB while detailed is just off for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 13, 2018, 01:07:43 AM
Quote from: nic-e on May 12, 2018, 08:51:41 PM
I do wonder if this might damage the overheads of smaller companies like vanuard, that have done a wonderful job filling the gap left by epic. Those GW modular titanicus buildings look amazing , and seem like they are poised to kick the legs from under vanguards own range of plastic epic scale scenery.

The terrain isn't going to be 6mm scale so it will look wildly out of scale next to Epic figs. I doubt they have anything to worry about
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 13, 2018, 01:38:08 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on May 12, 2018, 11:11:59 PM
This popped up on my twitter, colour me surpised if real.

That IS pretty cheap for an espresso.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 13, 2018, 03:40:50 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 12, 2018, 07:01:56 PM
I am officially now not buying anything until August

The Warlord Titan appears to be a similar size to a 40K Knight and is reported to have as many pieces. If that is true then I am retracting my earlier statement as there will be no way I can afford the game
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on May 13, 2018, 08:50:50 AM
Quote
The Warlord Titan appears to be a similar size to a 40K Knight and is reported to have as many pieces. If that is true then I am retracting my earlier statement as there will be no way I can afford the game

That is both awesome and dissappointing at the same time.
I can just imagine how awesome a game of this will look like.
But yes, I would never get into a game that expensive.

Hmm.. maybe just use the warlord as imperial knights in 40k and  kill two birds in one stone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on May 13, 2018, 09:33:59 AM
I don’t think the titans are that big 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 13, 2018, 10:15:38 AM
Those are knights, but according to sources twice removed they're a quarter of the size of the 40k counterparts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 13, 2018, 03:00:07 PM
The Warlords are 3x the size of the AT Knight models and are, by my estimate, more complex than the 40K Knight kits.

Not saying that they are going to be comparably priced but I am prepping myself for some serious sticker shock
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on May 13, 2018, 04:24:06 PM
They look really great and my nostalgic heart really want them. But I am afraid that when I see the pricetag my enthusiasm will be somewhat lessened.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tim in saskatoon on May 13, 2018, 06:20:41 PM
Quote from: nic-e on May 12, 2018, 08:51:41 PM
I do wonder if this might damage the overheads of smaller companies like vanuard, that have done a wonderful job filling the gap left by epic. Those GW modular titanicus buildings look amazing , and seem like they are poised to kick the legs from under vanguards own range of plastic epic scale scenery.

I don't know, I have a feeling it will be the one box and that will be it. It'll probably go the way other games have gone - like Dreadfleet and Space Hulk. There will be some new people that buy it to check it out. There will be some people that loved AT back in the day, but sold off all their stuff ages ago and will buy back in with this. And then there are all the people who still have a tonne of epic stuff that would LOVE to buy into a new game if it were compatible... but won't buy this because they already have a tonne of epic stuff that will be completely incompatible with this... They'll keep playing with what they've got and buying stuff from places like Vanguard.

All that being said, it seems Blood Bowl and Necromunda are doing okay, so... maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.

As pretty as they look I probably won't be buying into it as I have a tonne of Epic stuff already... Totally would have bought MORE from GW if they'd rereleased it in a similar scale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 13, 2018, 07:14:18 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on May 13, 2018, 09:33:59 AM
I don’t think the titans are that big

I see you use the same scale reference as DeafNala:

(http://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx269/DeafNala/2015%20Random%20Photos/2017%20Random%20Photos/DSCN4392.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 13, 2018, 09:58:53 PM
Quote from: tim in saskatoon on May 13, 2018, 06:20:41 PM
I don't know, I have a feeling it will be the one box and that will be it. It'll probably go the way other games have gone - like Dreadfleet and Space Hulk. There will be some new people that buy it to check it out. There will be some people that loved AT back in the day, but sold off all their stuff ages ago and will buy back in with this. And then there are all the people who still have a tonne of epic stuff that would LOVE to buy into a new game if it were compatible... but won't buy this because they already have a tonne of epic stuff that will be completely incompatible with this... They'll keep playing with what they've got and buying stuff from places like Vanguard.

All that being said, it seems Blood Bowl and Necromunda are doing okay, so... maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.

As pretty as they look I probably won't be buying into it as I have a tonne of Epic stuff already... Totally would have bought MORE from GW if they'd rereleased it in a similar scale.

Already confirmed to be a supported game with seperate scenery, knights, reaver and warlord kits avaliable to buy, plus new command boards and warhounds coming in the future.

I recon from there they'll add eldar and some mechanicus dominatus weapons before they start expanding it epic style with tanks and infantry.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 13, 2018, 10:32:52 PM
God damn it , I'm trying to save for a masters degree...I'm being really good, I walk to work and everything to save money, But GW are going to really test me with these....

i mean god damn, just hook it up to my veins!


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on May 13, 2018, 10:53:43 PM
They look great in that scale!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 13, 2018, 11:04:12 PM
Been messing about with half a box of the new Van Saar this weekend (I really need to update my WiP thread). They're perfect for conversions, but.... fuck me, that kit is needlessly huge.

Separate heads and necks? Why?
Three pieces to assemble a single weapon-holding arm? Why?

My advice: mix them with Hybrid and Mechanicus and Empire bits and you'll actually be able to enjoy being alive.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on May 14, 2018, 12:21:33 AM
Im finding the van saar boxed set is hard going too, I get that the weapons all come from the same stc but using separate barrels is just making things confusing.

As I said earlier, having the torso/legs as one piece makes much more sense, not like you can mix and match them anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 14, 2018, 07:52:13 AM
While I understand the desire to make the titans bigger for painting I can't help but think that a game with so many big models will be a right logistical pain to transport everything you need to play, what with the minis themselves as well as the buildings etc. Not to mention the cost of these larger titans, the change in scale is really brought home when you see them up against the classic AT titan.

When I was reading the current WD it occurred that with the Deepkin they are kinda AoS Dark Eldar, travelling vast distances to raid...but why are most of the characters on foot and how do they and the eye-less ones get about...do they have to set off weeks in advance to make sure they get there at the same time as the swimmers? I've heard a lot of people draw comparisons to the Kharadrons but at least all the dwarfs get to sail on their airships.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on May 14, 2018, 11:51:36 PM
Not a big fan of the elves riding eels...


But this....

Is pretty cool...!

(https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture7/2941/WHfestLiveBlog-AoSProduct1rb.jpg)

(https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture6/2941/WHfestLiveBlog-AoSProduct7sb.jpg)

(https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture8/2941/WHfestLiveBlog-AoSProduct4ry.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 15, 2018, 07:51:14 AM
I definitely like the balance of detail on these minis and this new range seems to have a good sense of character...I just don't like those bloody-silly bat ears on the top dude, though that is an easy fix.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on May 15, 2018, 08:43:23 AM
I love the bat ears!  :-* Guess we all like different things eh?

As an old timer with several (really) elf and undead armies in years gone by, it's been a real treat recently seeing all these new figures. I thought the fish elves had a couple of nice models but overall it was a bit too much for my conservative tastes - I thought the plastic Island of Blood set was better. Riding round on fishes is stretching it a bit even in a fantasy world. But flying skulls wearing bed sheets - ooooh yeah, they are fine. I guess they tap into a deeply rooted vision of death as a cloaked skeleton, so are more "believable". A better range in my eyes. The new Black Coach looks interesting too.

Neither are as nice as other stuff they have announced though - the dark elf blood bowl team and the Necromunda new release get the Gold award from me. And currently painting up some Iron Hill dwarfs and they are just lovely.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 15, 2018, 08:53:45 AM
Quote from: Charlie_ on May 14, 2018, 11:51:36 PM
(https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture6/2941/WHfestLiveBlog-AoSProduct7sb.jpg)
"Despite being the only one not blindfolded, Cedric always managed to be the one that picked up the bell."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 15, 2018, 09:01:08 AM
Quote from: beefcake on May 15, 2018, 08:53:45 AM
"Despite being the only one not blindfolded, Cedric always managed to be the one that picked up the bell."

Getting clobbered to death with a bellend is no joke mate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 15, 2018, 10:15:18 AM
Just noticed he has 2 bell ends! The second one is rather well hung... off his robes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 15, 2018, 10:20:58 AM
Ah, the ultimate goal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 15, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/WHfestLiveBlog-Post2-Sorceries6vb.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 15, 2018, 03:14:35 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on May 15, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/WHfestLiveBlog-Post2-Sorceries6vb.jpg)

Anyone made a fart/bad gas joke yet?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on May 15, 2018, 03:32:12 PM
Quote from: beefcake on May 15, 2018, 10:15:18 AM
Just noticed he has 2 bell ends! The second one is rather well hung... off his robes.

Must be the dong to his other bell's ding.

I'll get my coat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 15, 2018, 05:45:38 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on May 15, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/WHfestLiveBlog-Post2-Sorceries6vb.jpg)

They are coming out with 6 different "wizards" from 6 different factions that come with a mini that represents the spell they are casting.

I think it is a great idea. Sure other companies will jump on THAT bandwagon as soon as they can.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 15, 2018, 06:12:08 PM
I think there have been minis to represent spells for years its nothing particularly new.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 15, 2018, 06:32:02 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on May 15, 2018, 06:12:08 PM
I think there have been minis to represent spells for years its nothing particularly new.

Ah... I'm not much of a fantasy person so not really an expert. Haven't seen such minis though but I will defer to you all since I'm pretty much a newb to such things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 15, 2018, 09:07:07 PM
I'm not particularly up to date either, I thought AoS did away with most complex spells that needed tokens on the table?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 15, 2018, 09:37:10 PM
Quote from: YPU on May 15, 2018, 09:07:07 PM
I'm not particularly up to date either, I thought AoS did away with most complex spells that needed tokens on the table?

It's a new part of the second edition. Malign sorcery. We don't know much yet, but the description given is that the new edition lets you have cinematic magic.Spells that dominate parts of the board, that move and target or just hang around.

also in AOS spells aren't part of the core rules , but are on the warscroll of the caster. MAlign portents had a few that hung around.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on May 15, 2018, 10:04:31 PM
This fits with the way GW has changed its idea of scenery as something players are expected to scratch build to not only stuff that you buy from GW but that has rules and points costs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on May 17, 2018, 09:36:20 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 15, 2018, 03:14:35 PM
Anyone made a fart/bad gas joke yet?
My immediate thought was that she is holding up an aerosol can. Is she casting 'The Lynx Effect'?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 17, 2018, 11:05:48 PM
That burning skull was pepersprayed into retreat :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 18, 2018, 02:41:02 AM
I think it would be great just as a fire elemental
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on May 18, 2018, 01:33:08 PM
I am digging those spectral undead.  I love that mounted model.  Better the dead, than those silly fish elves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on May 19, 2018, 02:22:19 AM
Quote from: horridperson on May 18, 2018, 01:33:08 PM
I am digging those spectral undead.  I love that mounted model.  Better the dead, than those silly fish elves.

Me too.

I have quite a large Vampire Counts army made up across the 7th and 8th edition Warhammer days, which has most choices. Coincidentally some of the very few options I don't have for the army is a unit of Wraiths, a mounted Wight King and a Black Coach - all of which has been previewed by the Warhammer Community over the past week, and all of which look nice enough to buy...

Maybe time to start adding to the pile of bones again...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 19, 2018, 03:43:29 PM
While I like fish elves but not enough to want any in my collection (except octopus + some guy..)

I totally love wraths.

My fav death units are skeletal horde  (I was spoiled by old Blansche art from cover of WFRP expansion) but apart from Shadespire 7 (and skeletal knights) we have cool but weak posed units from few editions ago and not much hope of overhaul. I totally miss the charm of GW ghouls and mega ghouls but spectral coach and specters and now those wraiths we  are seeing I see myself buying.. just beautifull models..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on May 19, 2018, 04:46:34 PM
GW just out out an article on WC warning of an upcoming price rice on brushes.

30p per brush roughly, But they give their reasoning and said they wanted to give advance warning.
Seems pretty fair , Although the only GW brush i use is the little starter brush they give away with painting sets.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: horridperson on May 19, 2018, 05:18:23 PM
@ red kop

I'm the same.  Those last few models will fill out the range and give it the best looking army out of the box award in my opinion.  I may never finish that black Coach reno that's been stalled for the past year :D .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on May 20, 2018, 10:33:45 PM
Well pictures of the London 40k GT have been floating around.

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/59828864/london-grand-tournament

Do 40k players have absolutely no self respect to actually pay to play on this garbage?
And from what I hear it's always like this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on May 21, 2018, 04:31:13 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on May 20, 2018, 10:33:45 PM
Well pictures of the London 40k GT have been floating around.

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/59828864/london-grand-tournament

Do 40k players have absolutely no self respect to actually pay to play on this garbage?
And from what I hear it's always like this.

I think the majority of 40k players will play on semi-decent tables. Its not really a matter of self respect, I feel, but rather a focus on competition rather than narrative / scenario / fun. These people exist in every game; there are scores of people who play X-Wing with power gaming in mind and don’t give a hoot about the ‘names’ of the pilots on the table. It’s symptomatic of having a ‘tournament scene’ in any game or genre.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cait Sidhe on May 21, 2018, 04:42:47 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on May 21, 2018, 04:31:13 PM
It’s symptomatic of having a ‘tournament scene’ in any game or genre.

Yeah I keep hearing since I last played Warmachine in 1st Ed everyone uses 2D terrain these days to remove any ambiguity with line of sight and stuff, kinda makes me sad to be honest. I guess at some point it just becomes about crunching numbers and building lists.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 21, 2018, 07:29:02 PM
Quote from: Cait Sidhe on May 21, 2018, 04:42:47 PM
I guess at some point it just becomes about crunching numbers and building lists.

Exactly this. I've often wondered if this is an influence from Magic the Gathering, a game I actually really enjoy but which takes list(deck)-breaking and number-crunching to a really technical extreme (without losing what aesthetic value the game has, too).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 21, 2018, 07:41:01 PM
Quote from: Cait Sidhe on May 21, 2018, 04:42:47 PM
Yeah I keep hearing since I last played Warmachine in 1st Ed everyone uses 2D terrain these days to remove any ambiguity with line of sight and stuff, kinda makes me sad to be honest. I guess at some point it just becomes about crunching numbers and building lists.

Most of the players left playing Warmachine locally are tournament players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on May 21, 2018, 08:22:01 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on May 21, 2018, 07:29:02 PM
Exactly this. I've often wondered if this is an influence from Magic the Gathering, a game I actually really enjoy but which takes list(deck)-breaking and number-crunching to a really technical extreme (without losing what aesthetic value the game has, too).

A bit off-topic but I quit MtG because it became a game of checking the current set's most effective decks on the net, then buying the cards needed for that deck and playing that till the next set comes out.
After that I tried one of the videogame versions but it turns out not even that allows free deckbuilding anymore so I assume that's the way the game's supposed to be played now? *shrug*

As I've understood it that's the kind of thing going on in miniature tournament gaming too, at least 40k. Can't say if it's spread there from Magic or from there to Magic though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 21, 2018, 10:27:45 PM
I always assumed GW was copying WotC when it came to the tournament stuff. I don't really know what I'm talking about, but bear with me if you feel like it.
I don't remember WD in the late 90s pushing the tournament scene, or anyone at that time naming army list archetypes - both kinds of thing (from company and from GW gamers) seemed to come after the MtG pro-tour really took off and made massive, massive, massive amounts of money for WotC.

Sure, power-gamers in GW games have always been hugely annoying bellends for the most part, but that kind of hardcore number crunching and gaming the meta-game and naming list archetypes... I'm sure these are all things were popularised by MtG. But one's precious meta-gaming calculations about list match-ups will be thrown out of whack if the scenery favours one side of the table  o_o

Can't really blame the MtG guys, "win at all costs" means something different when the chance of turning pro is available.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 21, 2018, 10:42:17 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on May 21, 2018, 10:27:45 PM
Can't really blame the MtG guys, "win at all costs" means something different when the chance of turning pro is available.

The internet and the ability to build up a wider tournament scene outside your city is probably what helped enable the 40K tourney scene.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 21, 2018, 11:11:12 PM
Tournaments sell models.. That is one of the marketing strategies that pays up..

When tournaments were organized privately they allowed proxies and such.making tournament scene was only sensible option for GW..

Problem was that Magic, X wing, Warmachine were games created with that in mind. And GW were hobby gaming games.. So rules were written without certain tournament mindset. Wordings are unclear and subject to interpretation.. and armies weren't properly playtested or not updated for 10 or more years..
Polish tourney scene is very competitive and stats from making Polish rules clarifications and similar documents :D IMHO GW games arent good tourney games, Shadespire is. But as long as people want to be competitive.. there is money in it for GW..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on May 22, 2018, 02:33:11 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/21/21st-may-warhammer-adventures-tales-for-younger-readersgw-homepage-post-1/

Gw books for young kids...seriously GW get your house in order first ffs, also kinda get aos but 40!? This kinda puts me off GW tbh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 22, 2018, 03:20:52 AM
Quote from: AWu on May 21, 2018, 11:11:12 PM
Problem was that Magic, X wing, Warmachine were games created with that in mind.

None of them were. They adapted to a tournament scene after a few years and it seems as if X-Wing is updating itself to version 2 based on a fairly significant focus on tournament play. Aside from CCGs like Spoils there aren't a lot of games that have been designed with tournament play in mind
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 22, 2018, 03:21:59 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on May 22, 2018, 02:33:11 AM
Gw books for young kids...seriously GW get your house in order first ffs, also kinda get aos but 40!? This kinda puts me off GW tbh.

The 40K book fills me with dread.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on May 22, 2018, 04:22:58 AM
Apparently one of the characters is a weapons hating pacifist, one is a deserter and the tech priest has withered arm in an exoskeleton(any decent tech priest would just remove the arm)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: commissarmoody on May 22, 2018, 08:49:16 AM
Just think of them as the sanitized version of the bible stories that they teach kids in Sunday school. Or the old Grim folk tells that got the happy ending Disney treatment. Pretty much as the propaganda that the kids in those fantasy worlds are fed on "Civilized" Imperial worlds.... Before the realty of being drafted into the work force or military crushes them.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on May 22, 2018, 09:09:49 AM
Quote from: AWu on May 21, 2018, 11:11:12 PM
Tournaments sell models.. That is one of the marketing strategies that pays up..


That simply isn't true for GW.
Tournament players makeup a tiny minority of GW customers.
Even if a small number of tournament players spend a lot for money on soldiers that is far, far outweighed by the huge number of kids dropping £50 a month on Space Marines.
Given that tournament players are often experts in using eBay and other secondary markets as well as the habit of some of selling one army to fund the next they're not a significant sales market for GW.

In an immature market like Poland the influence of tournament players will be disproportionate, but globally it's all about "churn and burn" players who are throwing down whatever they've got in GW stores or on their kitchen table.

At one point (around the turn of the century) GW saw tournaments as a marketing tool. A way of promoting a "top tier" of the hobby (inthe same way the Champons League inspires park fotballers). But they've spent the last 15 or so years distancing themselves from that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on May 22, 2018, 02:24:43 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on May 22, 2018, 02:33:11 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/21/21st-may-warhammer-adventures-tales-for-younger-readersgw-homepage-post-1/

Gw books for young kids...seriously GW get your house in order first ffs, also kinda get aos but 40!? This kinda puts me off GW tbh.
Considering the adults don't give a crap about the background of 40k anymore they have to target somebody.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 22, 2018, 07:48:23 PM
Quote from: TWD on May 22, 2018, 09:09:49 AM
Even if a small number of tournament players spend a lot for money on soldiers that is far, far outweighed by the huge number of kids dropping £50 a month on Space Marines.

I know this is the common perception of GW's business model but at least in terms of non-GW game stores it quite simply isn't true. The store I work in sells a lot of 40K and the number of "burn and churn" customers we have is minimal. Almost zero in fact. The majority of our customers are older gamers and are dedicated to their hobby.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on May 22, 2018, 08:36:13 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on May 21, 2018, 08:22:01 PM
A bit off-topic but I quit MtG because it became a game of checking the current set's most effective decks on the net, then buying the cards needed for that deck and playing that till the next set comes out.

Ok, at the risk of going off topic this has almost never been true (speaking as a player since 94). The nature of magic is that as a deck rises in the metagame it's own dominance factors against it as players can increasingly play very specific counter strategies and the deck itself must adapt to the mirror. In even the most degenerate of formats (which has really only happened about 4 or 5 times to my recollection) there are always at least two or three tier 1 lists.

I don't think the "net decking" complaint has really been meaningful in 10+ years since that level of information is so trivially and widely accessible to all.

Anyways. Magic is magic. It suits tournaments. Wargames imho really don't, and both are good things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on May 22, 2018, 09:36:17 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on May 21, 2018, 08:22:01 PM
A bit off-topic but I quit MtG because it became a game of checking the current set's most effective decks on the net, then buying the cards needed for that deck and playing that till the next set comes out.
After that I tried one of the videogame versions but it turns out not even that allows free deckbuilding anymore so I assume that's the way the game's supposed to be played now? *shrug*

As I've understood it that's the kind of thing going on in miniature tournament gaming too, at least 40k. Can't say if it's spread there from Magic or from there to Magic though.
This ridiculousness.
100× this ridiculousness.
It's a cancer that Magic has allot to answer for.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 22, 2018, 11:16:41 PM
Well, a cancer seems a bit over the top...

Actually I really don't see anything to complain about.

I quite like GW games. The way I like to play them, power-gamers are pretty much playing a completely different game. Why would it bother me if other folks like playing a completely different game?
(Same goes for my experience of MtG: find good people, play good games).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 23, 2018, 01:33:59 AM
I have actually played MtG since 1994 and complaints about "net-decking" always sound rather amusingly quaint to me, a bit like a complaint about the internet in general.

I didn't think there'd be much animus to MtG here; I would have assumed indifference, really.

Anyway, in that same time period I've also been involved in various tabletop wargaming scenes as well, and tournaments have always been present there too. Maybe a very specific subset of games would have a minimal or no tournament scene at all (say, old-style mass historicals), but for tabletop stuff in general, there's usually some sort of recurring official competitive format.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on May 23, 2018, 06:41:53 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 22, 2018, 07:48:23 PM
I know this is the common perception of GW's business model but at least in terms of non-GW game stores it quite simply isn't true. The store I work in sells a lot of 40K and the number of "burn and churn" customers we have is minimal. Almost zero in fact. The majority of our customers are older gamers and are dedicated to their hobby.
I wasn't denying that there are older gamers.
Clearly there are. I am one myself. :)
I was denying the assertion that Tournaments generate sales.

I think I might want a somewhat bigger sample than "the store you work in" to decide that adult, dedicated gamers make up the bulk of the hobby. :D

However the changes over the last few years have clearly targeted an older, nostalgic demographic than previously,  and been rewarded with record sales (though volume has also played a part) so perhaps the older gamers are more significant than GW has previously believed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 24, 2018, 12:01:58 PM
Quote from: TWD on May 22, 2018, 09:09:49 AM
Even if a small number of tournament players spend a lot for money on soldiers that is far, far outweighed by the huge number of kids dropping £50 a month on Space Marines.

Nah... the kids are all playing Frostgrave.  ;)

I think one of the things you folks don't appreciate is how many folks out there are simply collectors. Collectors aren't kids. They buy miniatures they enjoy painting.

I'm a collector of GW models. I like them for their character and detail. I appreciate them moving from 28mm to 40mm because you get more detail and they are easier on the eyes to paint.

BTW there is a great Youtube channel on AoS by a Brit who is a collector. His name is Kitetsu. Check him out:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTX2KaSsRsy_HAQgEDs59lg
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 03:26:43 PM
Quote from: TWD on May 23, 2018, 06:41:53 PM
I think I might want a somewhat bigger sample than "the store you work in" to decide that adult, dedicated gamers make up the bulk of the hobby. :D

Well it is probably the biggest game store on the planet. My experience with other independent retailers is the same though. From talking to them in person or at trade events they almost all have the same experience of their 40K and AoS client base.

I suspect that if there are any churn and burn kids they are probably going to be at GW stores since people with no experience of the hobby would go there directly. The amount of product available at the average GW outlet now is pretty small though so I don't know how much an impact that makes since anyone getting more involved in the hobby will have to buy somewhere other than a local GW location.

Quote from: TWD on May 23, 2018, 06:41:53 PM
However the changes over the last few years have clearly targeted an older, nostalgic demographic than previously,  and been rewarded with record sales (though volume has also played a part) so perhaps the older gamers are more significant than GW has previously believed.

I don't think that it is nostalgia as much as GW is working to bring back their Specialist Games range and their "non-core" titles as they have been asked for more than a decade. They have these existing and established properties and it makes sense for them to once again expand them to help broaden their market. The fact that we have nostalgic feelings for them shouldn't be confused with GW marketing them as nostalgia titles. We all need to try to step out of our own shoes and look at these releases independent of our own presumptions about them.

They are using them to get gamers into their marketspace in the way that the games were used, accidentally or deliberately, in the past. Necromunda has a totally different experience in the core boxed set than it did previously for instance. Its just that not a lot of companies would build a huge range of games like this and then ignore them for as long as GW has.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on May 24, 2018, 12:01:58 PM
I think one of the things you folks don't appreciate is how many folks out there are simply collectors.

I'd be surprised if this market, at least in terms of GW sales, was very large at all. The fact that Tom Kirby thought that collectors were a large part of the GW market makes me assume that this is not the case.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 24, 2018, 04:42:29 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 03:28:31 PM
I'd be surprised if this market, at least in terms of GW sales, was very large at all. The fact that Tom Kirby thought that collectors were a large part of the GW market makes me assume that this is not the case.  ;)

They are nevertheless a factor. To what extent I don't know, but if you were to be playing a video game, and buying all the premium stuff available, you would be termed a "Whale." And believe me, the "whales" impact the direction of the company.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on May 24, 2018, 05:19:09 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 03:26:43 PM
Well it is probably the biggest game store on the planet.

A large non-representative sample isn't any more representative than a small one.   If that were the case we could just survey the population of Shanghai if we wanted to find out what's going on worldwide. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 06:26:32 PM
Quote from: Derek H on May 24, 2018, 05:19:09 PM
A large non-representative sample isn't any more representative than a small one.

Its a bit odd to quote one sentence and then ignore the next that expands on it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 06:27:21 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on May 24, 2018, 04:42:29 PM
They are nevertheless a factor. To what extent I don't know, but if you were to be playing a video game, and buying all the premium stuff available, you would be termed a "Whale." And believe me, the "whales" impact the direction of the company.

Do you spend more than $10,000 a month on minis? If not then you're not even close to being a whale. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on May 24, 2018, 07:03:30 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 03:26:43 PM
Well it is probably the biggest game store on the planet. My experience with other independent retailers is the same though. From talking to them in person or at trade events they almost all have the same experience of their 40K and AoS client base.
With respect that's still not a representative sample. I think later on you say something about stepping out of our own shoes... :)
We're probably both expressing our own cultural/national experiences and biases. I've an Anglocentric view of the hobby, yours is (I'm guessing) North American.

Quote from: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 03:26:43 PM
I suspect that if there are any churn and burn kids they are probably going to be at GW stores since people with no experience of the hobby would go there directly. The amount of product available at the average GW outlet now is pretty small though so I don't know how much an impact that makes since anyone getting more involved in the hobby will have to buy somewhere other than a local GW location.
The type of hobby store you work in is actually atypical of independent stores in the UK (and, from my time working in GW not the majority worldwide either). Most GW products sold by independents in the UK go through toy stores, where GW stock sits alongside dolls, traditional board games Lego, teddy bears, train sets etc. Hobby stores like yours are infrequent here (though seeing a resurgence in recent years to my untrained eye). As far as I know toy sales are significant in NA and Euro markets as well, though smaller than in the UK.

Hobby stores, of the type run "by gamers for gamers" inevitably attract an older, dedicated crowd but they're not the majority of stores, and nor do they generate disproportionately high sales across the independent sales as a whole. They're important, and they provide great resources and support to the older hobby section but they're not the bulk of GW customers.

Many GW store managers in conversation always used to insist it was the veterans and regulars - older hobbyists like themselves - who kept the tills whirring. Analysis of actual sales figures and impartial observation always revealed it was the younger, passing through crowd who really kept them going. A good manager new the value of both.
Quote
I don't think that it is nostalgia as much as GW is working to bring back their Specialist Games range and their "non-core" titles as they have been asked for more than a decade.
Older guys asking to have back games they used to enjoy in their youth sounds like the definition of nostalgia to me. :D

Quote
They have these existing and established properties and it makes sense for them to once again expand them to help broaden their market. The fact that we have nostalgic feelings for them shouldn't be confused with GW marketing them as nostalgia titles. We all need to try to step out of our own shoes and look at these releases independent of our own presumptions about them.

To be fair I am basing my perceptions of this on places like here where the overwhelming feeling is "Cor, Necromunda's back - I used to love that!" Clearly it can't be only nostalgia that's driving sales, they must be attracting new players (or so my fat dividend cheques tell me :)). Wonder if they'll stay or churn and burn? (My gut feeling 90% churn, 10%stay).

Quote
They are using them to get gamers into their marketspace in the way that the games were used, accidentally or deliberately, in the past. Necromunda has a totally different experience in the core boxed set than it did previously for instance. Its just that not a lot of companies would build a huge range of games like this and then ignore them for as long as GW has.
They didn't ignore them. A lot of time and money was invested in Specialist Games when they had their own team and magazines. And the sales didn't justify it. They needed time out of the limelight, time for some new Games Devs to be given their head to have another crack at them and, just maybe,  time for a little nostalgia to kick in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 24, 2018, 07:09:47 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 06:27:21 PM
Do you spend more than $10,000 a month on minis? If not then you're not even close to being a whale. :)

Individually.. nobody does.

Have you seen the collection of Mongoose Matt? If he invested the money he buys on GW minis into stocks instead, he would be a majority shareholder.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 08:25:35 PM
Quote from: TWD on May 24, 2018, 07:03:30 PM
Analysis of actual sales figures and impartial observation always revealed it was the younger, passing through crowd who really kept them going.

What sales figures are you referring to? GW has never released any sales figures even broken down by game type not to mention breaking them down by age demographics.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on May 24, 2018, 07:09:47 PM
Individually.. nobody does.

So I don't really understand your point then. Who are the whales in this example then? If they buy so much then where are the UK and NA equivalents of the LE figures they sell in Japan?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on May 24, 2018, 08:32:12 PM
Who said anything about them being released?
I worked there. I had access to sales figures. I also went and observed in stores and read reports and analysis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 08:38:34 PM
Quote from: TWD on May 24, 2018, 07:03:30 PM
With respect that's still not a representative sample. I think later on you say something about stepping out of our own shoes... :)

Interesting comments about the UK. Its pretty much the exact opposite of what occurs in NA. Maybe its an issue with rental rates for retail?

The 40K boxed sets that GW made to put into retail stores are almost impossible to find here except when you order then specifically and when we do sell them people aren't even sure what they are because they aren't available in retailers like Toys R Us or Walmart here. Not even sure if people can get them in retail locations in the US.

Wonder what the European experience is?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 08:39:43 PM
Quote from: TWD on May 24, 2018, 08:32:12 PM
I worked there. I had access to sales figures. I also went and observed in stores and read reports and analysis.

Then say that. People can't read your mind.

Do you have some examples you can share and from what years/markets they are from?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on May 24, 2018, 09:16:13 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 08:38:34 PM
Wonder what the European experience is?

I have a GW store and another 3 brick and mortar shops that sell GW products within easy driving distance. And I don't live in a major city here in Spain.

As for the "Whales" these folks buy thousands of Euros of GW product. To dismiss them out of hand shows you are not willing to have a rational discussion.

Adios for now!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on May 24, 2018, 09:19:39 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 24, 2018, 08:39:43 PM
Then say that. People can't read your mind.

No mind reading necessary. Just the ordinary kind would do.

Quote
from my time working in GW

 :D




Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: commissarmoody on May 24, 2018, 10:16:20 PM
2 cents from a normal hobbyist, it was the GW/Milton Bradley board game "Hero Quest", bought in a local malls KB toy that started my life as a table top gamer.

I belive I was 9 years old at the time. Point being, is every one has to start the hobby some where. So I dont see any problem with more entery leval products to get more, life time gamer's involed.
Also, how may of those turn and burn players will in their mid teens or early 20s. Find the old minatures they bought as a kid and decided to give it another go? :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on May 25, 2018, 02:25:28 PM
...why are people talking about giant fish buying GW products?
I mean the shops are empty enough 24/7 to fit a whale easily...if and when open.
But whales play GW games?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 25, 2018, 02:40:28 PM
Cetaceans in general have a long habit of gaming. I remember in the 90's there was a craze among porpoises for playing Space Hulk and Warlock of Firetop Mountain. It ruined a lot of gaming clubs for the other members because, a) they demanded to be wetted down every five minutes, b) they kept their dice in their blowholes and it made a mess every time they rolled them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on May 25, 2018, 05:00:02 PM
OrcaMorka!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 25, 2018, 07:54:31 PM
Quote from: TWD on May 25, 2018, 05:00:02 PM
OrcaMorka!

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: ink the troll on May 26, 2018, 12:45:25 AM
Quote from: Cubs on May 25, 2018, 02:40:28 PM
[...] b) they kept their dice in their blowholes and it made a mess every time they rolled them.
“keep yer dice dice in yer blowhole”  does sound like an euphemism for something or the other. Possibly...

3.) something that involves, erm, suction and caters to some kind of very special interests/tastes that probably shouldn't be discussed here (even if by sheer accident you happened to be a marine biologist).
2.) something along the lines of, say, a squad leader yelling  ''Hey there, nancy boys, keep yer dice in yer blowholes- no reason to get yer knickers in a twist or shit yerselves just 'cause them's a bunch of alien muthafuckas tryin' ta peel the faces off yer skulls!! Ye joined the Army to fry bug brains, no?!' *ratatatatat*
1.) something like “Oi landlubbers, ye might be thinking the sea is rough now, but  it's gonna get rougher once we're rounding Cape Horn- so keep yer dice in yer blowholes- no need ta feed tha fuckin' fish just yet!” ( Mostly because here in Germany we have the term 'Würfelhusten' and the expression 'Würfel husten'- literally translated 'dicecough' and 'dice coughing' or 'to cough dice'-  both synonyms for/ colloquial expressions for 'kotzen'/ to vomit.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on May 26, 2018, 01:31:57 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_rz609UIAAim0D.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 26, 2018, 05:23:04 AM
Quote from: grant on May 26, 2018, 01:31:57 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_rz609UIAAim0D.jpg)
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 26, 2018, 01:04:25 PM
I am filled with pride regarding this forum sometimes.

On a slightly different, and unfortunately valid, note, having got on a bit of a Runequest nostalgia trip lately, I was left sighing wistfully at what might have been if GW had kept producing Runequest's miniatures. Imagine what lovely things the Mr Perry's might have been producing with modern GW stylie production behind them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on May 27, 2018, 07:19:00 PM
Quote from: Cubs on May 26, 2018, 01:04:25 PM
On a slightly different, and unfortunately valid, note, having got on a bit of a Runequest nostalgia trip lately, I was left sighing wistfully at what might have been if GW had kept producing Runequest's miniatures. Imagine what lovely things the Mr Perry's might have been producing with modern GW stylie production behind them.

I hear you!

Imagine if this range had actually been made ...

(http://heartsinglorantha.d101games.com/files/2013/01/john-blanche-dark-trolls.jpg)

... and made in plastic 30 years after the rest of the Runequest stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 27, 2018, 08:53:36 PM
Those are pretty sweet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on May 30, 2018, 01:18:44 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/29/29th-may-faction-focus-seraphongw-homepage-post-3/

New summoning rules don't seem too bad. It's nice that you can still charge up without a slaan on the table.

I really want to forgive GW and dip my toes back into what passes as their fantasy line, but I still can't tell if the seraphon are actual physical beings or not. Aside from the slann. They're too OP to die now, from what I can tell.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 30, 2018, 09:27:37 AM
They have gigantic star lizards. Star Lizards!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on May 30, 2018, 07:46:29 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on May 30, 2018, 01:18:44 AM
I still can't tell if the seraphon are actual physical beings or not.

I read that once they've been "summoned" or "manifested" into being that they're flesh and blood and very much alive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on May 31, 2018, 03:20:12 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on May 30, 2018, 01:18:44 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/29/29th-may-faction-focus-seraphongw-homepage-post-3/

New summoning rules don't seem too bad. It's nice that you can still charge up without a slaan on the table.

I really want to forgive GW and dip my toes back into what passes as their fantasy line, but I still can't tell if the seraphon are actual physical beings or not. Aside from the slann. They're too OP to die now, from what I can tell.


I just can’t even keep up with GW any more. They’re so out there.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 01, 2018, 11:34:51 AM
Agreed. I must confess I turned fanboy at last  :D.
Even if an army overall doesn't appeal to me there always are a few units that are "too good to miss", whatever gaming system... And if I like the game, well... Thankgoodness the Shadespire gangs are dead cheap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on June 01, 2018, 05:22:04 PM
Two cawdor gang pics up from warhammer community.

Looking suitably deranged/would make great scavvies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 01, 2018, 06:36:36 PM
I not fan of them as a Cawdor gang (but thats not surprise as I started to like the Cawdor only after geting the old models because they were such a great sculpts :)

But they are insane cultists and fanatics conversion material..
Combination with flagellnts and Imperial models will give us endless possibilities! <3
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 01, 2018, 07:28:21 PM
Make a good stealer cult.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 01, 2018, 08:16:59 PM
My first reaction to that Cawdor pic was  :-* :-* :-*

Then my eye was drawn from the amazing minis (guy with bottle, guy with buzz-saw pole esp) to some of the others. The RPG-crossbow is daft even by GW standards, and the pole-gun thingies are not something I'd ever use.

So now my reaction is more like  :)

Some good conversion bits as AWU says above, so I'm keen, but I'm not blown away by the gang as a whole.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on June 01, 2018, 08:52:03 PM
............what an absolute pile of crap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 01, 2018, 09:11:56 PM
I dunno...when I look at each new gang it's almost like I can hear the barrel being scraped; why does every gang have to have weird unique wargear? Those rifle halberds look daft and a rope around my enemies neck would be great in a bit of fisticuffs...I could use it to throttle him.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 01, 2018, 09:27:42 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on June 01, 2018, 08:16:59 PM

Some good conversion bits as AWU says above, so I'm keen, but I'm not blown away by the gang as a whole.

My guess is they will look much better in some grimdark blanschitsu paintjob.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 01, 2018, 10:03:35 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on June 01, 2018, 09:11:56 PM
I dunno...when I look at each new gang it's almost like I can hear the barrel being scraped; why does every gang have to have weird unique wargear? Those rifle halberds look daft and a rope around my enemies neck would be great in a bit of fisticuffs...I could use it to throttle him.
The original cawdor also had the noose.

I might be the only one that likes the gun. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 01, 2018, 10:13:19 PM
I am not fan of Panzerfaustcrossbow but it will be cool bit, and they might have something less weird on the sprue (Orlock harpoon gun was a littledowner to me but they have beautiful stubber.
But I love gun halaberds  :-*


Hanging rope is Cawdor distinctive feature since 1st edition (this and the face mask as Imperial fanatics are doing unisex hijab in the Necro fluff)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on June 02, 2018, 08:44:49 AM
Good news that a boxset for Middle Earth is to be released, hopefully the support for this range will continue. Chance to buy some cheap plastics to bolster the collection, maybe even some new sculpts if we are lucky.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 02, 2018, 08:56:15 AM
I know the noose is from the original models but its still a daft idea.

If GW are focusing on Pelennor Fields then I kinda assume the new starter box will likely be old plastics?

I spotted a mention of Kill Team on Sprues & Brews, apparently in an FAQ Andy announced that Kill Team and Rogue Trader are tied in to each other...not quite sure what that means though I guess they use the same rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 02, 2018, 12:06:57 PM
Its probably mass produced plastic fake anyway.. it wont clench..
Hemp ropes are not a easily found in the Underhive :P

And its kinda like cross on the neck to them. Declaration of sacrifice or something like that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on June 02, 2018, 01:04:43 PM
I quite like the rocket crossbow. The pose does make it look a bit like he's trying to play snooker with it, though.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on June 02, 2018, 01:19:35 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on June 02, 2018, 08:56:15 AM
If GW are focusing on Pelennor Fields then I kinda assume the new starter box will likely be old plastics?

Quite possibly, though the chance to pick up some cheap plastics is not a bad thing.

I am just glad they have gone back to supporting the system and hope it continues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 02, 2018, 01:32:20 PM
I'd like to see more hooded heads on the Cawdor models. These mask/face combo's give them a Joker meets the Riddler feel, the bodies and weapons seem fine to me.
Oh well, there's always the 3rd party solution for the heads...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on June 02, 2018, 01:34:38 PM
I'm a bit disappointed by the Cawdor. The halberd guns are odd. But the main thing is the way the cowls sit around their neck: just not natural at all. They look more like the collar of a space suit than a cloth cowl. For me, this is the first of the necro kits where the original is far better. Pity, as Cawdor is one of my favourite gangs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on June 02, 2018, 01:47:24 PM
Oh well my resistance to the new Imperial Knight renegade box lasted all of 5 minutes. Cheap way to get two knights and a piece of the industrial terrain though!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 02, 2018, 06:50:18 PM
In days like this I am very happy that those knights kept me cold :>

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 03, 2018, 02:28:57 AM
Quote from: AWu on June 02, 2018, 06:50:18 PM
In days like this I am very happy that those knights kept me cold :>

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 03, 2018, 12:47:28 PM
the gun halberds make complete sense to me.

Who else uses them? Custodes! who are they? Why, the holy angelic guardians of the emperor, Legends in themselves, beings of such heroism and might that they are seen as near angels to those that hear of them from the priests of the imperium.

It makes  complete sense to me that a band of religiously driven nuts would try to emulate the custodes , modelling themselves as bodyguards to the faith and the emperor by proxy.
but they have to do it in their own ramshackle way.

I really like the kit. Even the really odd stuff like the crossbow grenade launcher makes sense to me. Poor extremists cobbling together what they can from stolen scraps. you don't need to look too far today to find examples of protesters and extremists alike cobbling together catapults to take on riot police, or using fireworks as improvised grenades.

BUT since I don't play necromunda, these guys are going to be made into a grimdark brettonian men at arms unit who follow around my stormcast hero.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 03, 2018, 01:03:53 PM
I agree.

And good luck - they seem nice fit for Bretonia guys (GW will burn in hell for many things but killing Bretonnia men-at-arm box is special sin - they have so much potential its just sad).

Mine Cawdor would be retinue for tech-barbaric knight on my Patalonia Campaign.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 03, 2018, 01:17:26 PM
Quote from: AWu on June 03, 2018, 01:03:53 PM
I agree.

And good luck - they seem nice fit for Bretonia guys (GW will burn in hell for many things but killing Bretonnia men-at-arm box is special sin - they have so much potential its just sad).

Mine Cawdor would be retinue for tech-barbaric knight on my Patalonia Campaign.

I always used to put off buying a box for conversions reasons and then it was gone. I got hold of a bunch from a trade in at work not long after and to be honest , as nice as the torsos are, they don't have as much potential as i always thought. the arm joints make them very difficult to repose since they really were made for ranking up. It's a shame they never got an update, but these chaps will do the job nicely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on June 03, 2018, 01:25:41 PM
Quote from: Nord on June 02, 2018, 01:19:35 PM
Quite possibly, though the chance to pick up some cheap plastics is not a bad thing.

I am just glad they have gone back to supporting the system and hope it continues.

Great news that they're again supporting the LOTR range and hopefully some new plastics that would be nice!

If not quite happy to grab some cheap reinforcements for my collection.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 03, 2018, 01:39:06 PM
Quote from: AWu on June 03, 2018, 01:03:53 PM
I agree.

And good luck - they seem nice fit for Bretonia guys (GW will burn in hell for many things but killing Bretonnia men-at-arm box is special sin - they have so much potential its just sad).

Mine Cawdor would be retinue for tech-barbaric knight on my Patalonia Campaign.
Ooh got any pics , I am doing feudal guard using fireforge sergeant at arms .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 03, 2018, 04:59:42 PM
Quote from: nic-e on June 03, 2018, 12:47:28 PM
Who else uses them? Custodes! who are they? Why, the holy angelic guardians of the emperor, Legends in themselves, beings of such heroism and might that they are seen as near angels to those that hear of them from the priests of the imperium.

I very much doubt that Hive Gangers would know of the existence of Custodes, let along know how they are armed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 03, 2018, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on June 03, 2018, 04:59:42 PM
I very much doubt that Hive Gangers would know of the existence of Custodes, let along know how they are armed.

They'd know them as saints, mythical, biblical figures. Most developed worlds in 40k know of the astartes and the founding legions, but as angels and heroes of legend.

Even if they don't, its a nice visual nod to the extreme ends of faith in the imperium. The golden guardian with spear in hand, and the shabby weirdo with a hook on a stick.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 03, 2018, 06:55:17 PM
Yeah but there is a big difference between a 'regular' space marine and one of the Emperor's elite bodyguards who until recently have not been seen outside of the Imperial Palace since the Heresy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 03, 2018, 07:36:29 PM
I can easily see the patriarchs of House Cawdor possessing a battered copy of a holy tome from Terra- brought out for the faithful to view on special occasions- containing illuminations of Custodes. Humans emulate all sorts of behaviors they don't understand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 03, 2018, 09:51:57 PM
I would think more akin to Biblia pauperum.

Fresco and religious art including them on the right hand of the Emperor as some king of angelic chorus.


No specific custodes stuff (although adeptus could be evocated in religious festival and such)  but angelic iconography,  like peopole for ages didnt know how roman soldiers looked like but they know exactly how flaming sword of the archangel looked.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on June 03, 2018, 10:45:06 PM
Also think of Imperial propaganda, no doubt the proceedings of major religious events are recorded on terra and broadcast elsewhere (possibly for money).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 04, 2018, 12:15:07 AM
indeed. It could even be that, given the imperiums love of GIANT STATUES! that a few lowly gangers have ventured to the mid/upper hive and seen the statues of great saints and the holy angels of the emperor that line the streets and then modelled themselves as elite warriors "blessed" by their visit to the upper hive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pacarat on June 04, 2018, 08:53:03 PM
Quote from: blacksoilbill on June 02, 2018, 01:34:38 PM
I'm a bit disappointed by the Cawdor. The halberd guns are odd. But the main thing is the way the cowls sit around their neck: just not natural at all. They look more like the collar of a space suit than a cloth cowl. For me, this is the first of the necro kits where the original is far better. Pity, as Cawdor is one of my favourite gangs.

Extra heavy starch at the dry cleaners...de rigeur.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on June 05, 2018, 03:55:52 AM
Quote from: pacarat on June 04, 2018, 08:53:03 PM
Extra heavy starch at the dry cleaners...de rigeur.
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on June 05, 2018, 09:24:49 AM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=1125463923+995043222

No mention of knights yet?

£100 models don't do anything for me.
Yeah they look nice but... £100...

The two mini knights for £45 is pretty good.
But I'm sure in WD it said these mini knights were made for built up areas and close quarters...so why super long guns???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 05, 2018, 12:22:02 PM
So they can poke them through windows to gun down people inside :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 05, 2018, 03:35:28 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on June 05, 2018, 09:24:49 AM
But I'm sure in WD it said these mini knights were made for built up areas and close quarters...so why super long guns???

They're truncheons?


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 06, 2018, 08:18:00 AM
or cattle prods. for big cattle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on June 06, 2018, 12:43:55 PM
Think I am going to get the new Soul Wars Box set, but I really don't want to collect Nighthaunts.

Any of ya'll interested in the Nighthuant minis and cards for say around 30 euros including shipping in the EU?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on June 06, 2018, 01:32:56 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on June 06, 2018, 12:43:55 PM
Think I am going to get the new Soul Wars Box set, but I really don't want to collect Nighthaunts.

Any of ya'll interested in the Nighthuant minis and cards for say around 30 euros including shipping in the EU?

Ha, I'm exactly the other way around and therefore interested in your proposal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on June 06, 2018, 05:19:33 PM
Almost certainly will pre-order it and am not interested in gouging folks... but I do want to get the General's Handbook as well, so it is a way to offset some costs.

I'll post the Nighthaunts in the "For Sale" section and offer it here first. Have got pretty much all the Stormcast I want, so really not interested in a trade for them. What I would really be interested in is a box of Khorne Wrathmongers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 06, 2018, 06:57:32 PM
Quote from: beefcake on June 06, 2018, 08:18:00 AM
or cattle prods. for big cattle.
Having just seen The Shape of Water, cattle prod truncheons immediately came to mind too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 06, 2018, 11:19:22 PM
I dont care for AoS but I want to get those Nightgaunts for sure.
I wonder how they will cost locally.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 09, 2018, 12:41:43 AM
And interesting one here...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-44413297

GW is splitting a 5 million pound bonus out amongst its employees as a way to reward them for helping achieve massive profits.

Complain about the prices all you want, But I'm happy to know that the companys reformed image is being reflected in its attitude towards its own staff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 09, 2018, 12:58:40 AM
Split 1 way to the CEO  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on June 09, 2018, 03:59:59 AM
http://www.tga.community/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on June 11, 2018, 03:45:25 PM
Quote from: nic-e on June 09, 2018, 12:41:43 AM
And interesting one here...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-44413297

GW is splitting a 5 million pound bonus out amongst its employees as a way to reward them for helping achieve massive profits.

Complain about the prices all you want, But I'm happy to know that the companys reformed image is being reflected in its attitude towards its own staff.

If equally split, nearly £3000 each! That’s nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on June 11, 2018, 04:10:56 PM
Just read that the Soul Wars box will sell for 95 pounds.

So I think an offer for the Nighthaunts to folks here in Europe (including shipping) of 30 Euros sounds about right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on June 11, 2018, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: Sbloom141 on June 11, 2018, 03:45:25 PM
If equally split, nearly £3000 each! That’s nice.

I seriously doubt it will be an equal split.
A part timer getting the same as a manager? Or executive?
Not going to happen.
Proportional sharing. With the lion’s share at the top, as it usually is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on June 11, 2018, 05:45:28 PM
Quote from: grant on June 11, 2018, 05:05:33 PM
I seriously doubt it will be an equal split.
A part timer getting the same as a manager? Or executive?
Not going to happen.
Proportional sharing. With the lion’s share at the top, as it usually is.

An executive is normally not referred to as an "employee."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on June 11, 2018, 08:03:49 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on June 11, 2018, 05:45:28 PM
An executive is normally not referred to as an "employee."
Do you mean a non-exec? The chief executive, for example, is very much an employee.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 11, 2018, 11:38:38 PM
word online says it's being split on an even rate based on hours worked. so an upper management type that clocks in 15 hours a week will be getting less of it than a store manager that pulls 9 hour shifts and runs demos.

Also Andy hoare on facebook mentioned that GW actually has a bonus sharing scheme in place and always has, this it just the largest amount that's even been put through it at once.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 11, 2018, 11:43:51 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on June 11, 2018, 04:10:56 PM
Just read that the Soul Wars box will sell for 95 pounds.

So I think an offer for the Nighthaunts to folks here in Europe (including shipping) of 30 Euros sounds about right.

For 30 Euro I will free you from that burden :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 12, 2018, 12:39:57 AM
you also get the full hardback rulebook in the box ,like dark imperium, which is nice.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 12, 2018, 12:00:23 PM
Cheap as chips. Will get me one, even if I'm not to do anything with the Sigmarines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 12, 2018, 01:09:54 PM
Just seen on Facebook all the old imperial guard are no longer available, luckily I bought some tallarn other month, never got round to the vahallans though  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 13, 2018, 10:22:30 PM
They could take her life.. but they couldnt take her boobies!
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/AoSMortrach-June13-LadyOlynder1eh.jpg)

I like the model but they are striking :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 13, 2018, 10:32:29 PM
I get a certain Joseph Michael Linsner-vibe from that one...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nic-e on June 13, 2018, 10:36:11 PM
I like how understated it is. Alot of the nighthaunts range seems very pared down in contrast to the stormcasts , And i think are all the better for it. They aren't dripping with tokens and gubbins, they're very simple, classic, well sculpted ghasts.

Given that the other mortarch models look like an explosion in a superglue factory on bring your skeleton to work day, this one really stands out.

Also ...

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 13, 2018, 10:57:46 PM
Yeah.. Mortarhs looks like early Lady Gaga, and she is Bennett era Lady Gaga.
Still Lady gaga but more elegant :P


But as someone on FB mention.. she is good base  for this iconic art
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35268956_10102231568430923_3460317234692358144_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=f997a4708351b33dd4a8f3cf18f89643&oe=5BB96404)

Dont know who she is (Belisarius Cawl wifey ? ) but I love her.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 14, 2018, 01:59:36 AM
I love that ghost, the veil and overall aesthetic calls to mind the Neoclassical and Romantic era funerary sculpture, smooth and macabre. That's the first Age of Sigmar mini I've been remotely interested in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 14, 2018, 06:37:28 AM
Quote from: nic-e on June 13, 2018, 10:36:11 PM
I like how understated it is. Alot of the nighthaunts range seems very pared down in contrast to the stormcasts , And i think are all the better for it. They aren't dripping with tokens and gubbins, they're very simple, classic, well sculpted ghasts.

Agreed, she's quite refreshing...in a dusty spectral kind of way :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 15, 2018, 10:16:13 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on June 14, 2018, 01:59:36 AM
I love that ghost, the veil and overall aesthetic calls to mind the Neoclassical and Romantic era funerary sculpture, smooth and macabre. That's the first Age of Sigmar mini I've been remotely interested in.

My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 15, 2018, 12:06:52 PM
A smooth bump where a lady's chest would be … it's all too shocking.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/05/10/article-1276822-098302C0000005DC-666_468x414.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 15, 2018, 01:44:03 PM
She would paint up very nice, very dark & grim.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: meninobesta on June 15, 2018, 02:32:20 PM
Quote from: Cubs on June 15, 2018, 12:06:52 PM
A smooth bump where a lady's chest would be … it's all too shocking.

it surprises me, since most warhammer players have bigger ones...  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Suber on June 15, 2018, 04:43:05 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on June 14, 2018, 01:59:36 AM
I love that ghost, the veil and overall aesthetic calls to mind the Neoclassical and Romantic era funerary sculpture, smooth and macabre.

Just a quick response to call your attention on this local religious tradition in Valencia, Spain, where you can find a whole ritual surrounding a lady dressed like this:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/40/7d/32407d0ef34fcff549e9d08406a02fcc.jpg)

Behold her attack!

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/83/d8/97/83d897adb4419409c3220ee476762299.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on June 15, 2018, 06:21:50 PM
She protec.

She attack.

But most of all, she got rack. (Aparently)

Definitely gonna pick that up for mechanicum purposes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 15, 2018, 09:12:33 PM
Quote from: Suber on June 15, 2018, 04:43:05 PM
Just a quick response to call your attention on this local religious tradition in Valencia, Spain, where you can find a whole ritual surrounding a lady dressed like this:

Thank you sir, very interesting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on June 15, 2018, 10:18:29 PM
(http://d2clgeqocjw7k2.cloudfront.net/5ad47d6ce6d0260400f3f29a/frame_0000.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on June 16, 2018, 03:22:32 PM
Soul Wars and easy to fit Sequitors... per-ordered.

This looks like a great deal. Can't wait.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on June 16, 2018, 04:25:35 PM
Now if she'd have cone-shaped ta-tas in the fashion of classic Tomb Raider, she could use those as an extra weapon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on June 16, 2018, 05:27:53 PM
Quote from: AWu on June 13, 2018, 10:22:30 PM
They could take her life.. but they couldnt take her boobies!
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/AoSMortrach-June13-LadyOlynder1eh.jpg)

I like the model but they are striking :P
What’s a bland boring paintjob for a bland boring model.
Oh dear  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on June 16, 2018, 06:37:07 PM
Another tranche of ludicrousness from GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 16, 2018, 09:38:43 PM
I like the model but I agree that her paintjob is a little bland, well classic cartoon ghost style.
But I bet pro painters will make wonders with it! There is place for blending orgy there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 17, 2018, 09:20:33 PM
I've just watched the new How to Play vids for AoS...I admit I am more intrigued now but then I start looking at all the special rules and it turns me off again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on June 18, 2018, 08:38:15 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on June 14, 2018, 01:59:36 AM
I love that ghost, the veil and overall aesthetic calls to mind the Neoclassical and Romantic era funerary sculpture, smooth and macabre. That's the first Age of Sigmar mini I've been remotely interested in.
Check out the Myrmourn Banshees, too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on June 19, 2018, 03:28:36 AM
Thought this was the best place to ask this.
Who sculpted the Empire State troops from the early 90s? The metal puffy sleeves guys.
My friend said he thought it was the Perrys but they are in a different style than the figures I know they did sculpt like Brettonians and the Dogs of War various pikemen.
I'm getting ready to paint and repaint about 400 of them and was just wondering.Some of those sculpts are 20-30 years old now and man do they hold up!
Thanks,Pete
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on June 19, 2018, 06:12:15 AM
I believe those are Perry sculpts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on June 19, 2018, 09:02:39 PM
Yeah that was the Perrys.

The Dogs Of War range were somewhat more slender and leaning towards being more realistic is size and scale.... Because they sculpted them many years later, so they had no doubt evolved as sculptors! If the '4th edition' Empire range was earlier 90s.... 92? 93? I belive the Dogs of War range was later 90s... 98? 99? The '5th edition' Bretonnian range was probably somewhere in between, with the release of the 5th edition of the game. 97? 98?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on June 20, 2018, 02:10:13 AM
Huh ok. I don't know about realistic size but the DoW were definitely  more slender. The detail on the armor, lace and ruffles is head and shoulders above anything they did in the DoW or Brett range too. I guess I'm in the minority maybe but the Perrys own figures aren't my cuppa
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 21, 2018, 01:30:15 PM
Quote
The Gangers of House Cawdor wield crude halberds designed to imitate the weapons wielded by their idols – the Adeptus Custodes – although their effectiveness leaves a lot to be desired...

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35986683_189717468396909_10641155137994752_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeH07SoPgIQwV0KKqqt8NiIl9pJ2S7DdO7hZDWlETRKH-8JlLs8sbfU-DfqFmrFvr4veuC1jXBLRObgGqzjMgEM9qQfxLal79tC2tTNHoZLEPg&oh=0c848dabddcf0b86cead4c2d5338a02c&oe=5B9F26CE)


So thats official. Weapons in the image of the saints :P

PS: They could at least skin the rat for the kebab!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on June 24, 2018, 02:01:49 PM
But all the vitamins are in the skin....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on June 27, 2018, 09:22:19 AM
A bit disappointed with the Cawdor miniatures to be honest.

For me they're definitely the weakest of the bunch in terms of looks.

Out of completeness sake I'll pick some up as I want to get at least one of each gang, but they look pretty meh... Shame, as I've been rather impressed with everything else that they've released for Necromunda so far.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 27, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
I was in a GW shop last Friday and they're only stocking the main game in the shop now. All the gangs and extra bits (including the bases) are mail order only.

I was quite surprised, given that they're still releasing kits and it still seems to be an active project. Seems particularly harsh that the bases have to be ordered online
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 27, 2018, 10:57:00 AM
That does seem a very odd decision. It'd not like even stocking one of each gang would take up too much space.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on June 27, 2018, 11:11:58 AM
Quote from: zemjw on June 27, 2018, 10:55:00 AM
I was in a GW shop last Friday and they're only stocking the main game in the shop now. All the gangs and extra bits (including the bases) are mail order only.

I was quite surprised, given that they're still releasing kits and it still seems to be an active project. Seems particularly harsh that the bases have to be ordered online

That is odd. There is an online retailer here in NZ which seems to have everything covered so far but wonder if that'll change if it is all mail order only? If so that may complicate things a little more  :?

What a strange decision.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 27, 2018, 03:28:18 PM
My local non GW shop have everything most of the times, but we are playing it in shop quite intensively. I guess when we stop it will stop ordering replacements and will go mail order.

I guess when the shops will move to pushing new AoS edition it make sens economically (you have to keep less stock in central storage than in each shop you have.

I am not buying anything apart from paints in GW shop anyway because of prices anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 27, 2018, 03:44:52 PM
Yeah, the sales bloke did ask if I was interested in the new AoS stuff. I didn't get thrown out when I said I preferred the Old World figures, somewhat to my surprise. I suspect if he knew how old my Citadel fantasy figures are it would have been a different story (there's a good chance they're older than he is) lol

I always feel uncomfortable discussing fantasy and SF in their shop as I don't play their systems. Usually I just buy what I went for and try and get out as quickly as possible. I think it loses them business from me, as I am prone to "ooh shiny" and I'd probably spend a lot more if left just to wander around the place :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 27, 2018, 03:51:53 PM
I must admit to avoiding their shops sometimes rather than face the overly-pushy sales staff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on June 27, 2018, 09:33:48 PM
I had the same issue with the Van Saar, was going to walk down on the release day and just buy a box and Gang War 3, was told "nope, you need to order online" turns out that they made most of their sales through the base set, so after a few months they rotate all the extra stuff out of the bricks and mortar stores to make room for the next new game that comes out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on June 27, 2018, 09:39:14 PM
Don't know about anyone else but there is almost no chance of me making an impulse buy in GW now the models are hidden behind pictures. When the walls were covered in blisters (not in a Nurgle way) I could spend ages looking at the actual models and wanting to buy almost anything.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 27, 2018, 10:27:34 PM
Agree.. Now even plastic blisters have large sticker with info in Polish stick at the back blocking sight of the sprue..  and same pics that are on the boxes i can see in the net...
As I said, only go there for paints and sometimes random mail order exclusive I cannot order through my normal sources.

Additionally I was pissed that they bring only 10 copies of Goodwin artbook for shop anniversary.. I was 11th person :(
Shitty practice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on June 28, 2018, 01:06:51 AM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on June 27, 2018, 09:39:14 PM
Don't know about anyone else but there is almost no chance of me making an impulse buy in GW now the models are hidden behind pictures. When the walls were covered in blisters (not in a Nurgle way) I could spend ages looking at the actual models and wanting to buy almost anything.

Digging for treasure used to be the best part! That’s weird.
Haven’t done GW since Necro re-release and since sold on; I doubt they’ll get any of my money again. I do miss 40k 2nd edition out of pure nostalgia.... o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on June 28, 2018, 05:35:14 PM
I have never gotten into GW in general. Yea... I put together a small army of space marines and Eldar. Bought a bunch of Tyranids and sisters of battle (painted only 5). But fighting for the empire really never appealed to me.

As for Warhammer... I thought and still do, that the original fantasy armies were just too child like. Probably because of my "historic" gamer background. I did like Khorne and Chaos, but elves and rats... just didn't appeal.

Then came Age of Sigmar. And while I know that most on this forum hate the Stormcast, for me, Chaos, now had a worthy enemy. So I have bought a lot of stuff from GW in the last couple years:

1. Age of Sigmar Starter Box
2. Judicators
3. Lord-Aquilor
4. Vanguard-Palladors
5. Knight-Vexillor
6. Lord-Castellant
7. Knight-Azyros
8. Knight-Questor
9. Soul Wars Starter Box
10. Easy to build Sequitors
11. Exalted Deathbringer with axe
12. Daemon Prince
13. Dragonfate Dais

So... I guess a lot of the older folks have drifted away, but I am one of the newer folks who like the new look.

The models themselves are gorgeous, though they take me a long time to paint. Still when they are finished... they have become the prize of my miniature collection. Just finished my Knight Azyros... what a stunning model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 29, 2018, 01:57:48 AM
I definitely agree with the fact that stormcast are a worthy foe for Chaos. Before it just seemed inevitable that Chaos would reign. I liked the minis a bit to begin with but like them even more now. I've bought a few for chopping up into this and that but given the choice of starting a new army with GW I'd choose Stormies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on June 29, 2018, 02:47:16 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on June 28, 2018, 05:35:14 PM
Bought a bunch of sisters of battle (painted only 5).

Still got them? If so, do you want them? If not, can I have them?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 29, 2018, 03:17:58 PM
Genestealer Hybrid With No Name..

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bMCEfdXG5Cs/WzX0hJhTvrI/AAAAAAABdAk/JKl4vckeSjwyY6uMCREp9xJSyeqRuIR_gCLcBGAs/s1600/1530224524-capture.png)

Will join my Cult for sure!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 29, 2018, 07:17:03 PM
Damn, he looks SICK! :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 29, 2018, 08:34:36 PM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36327413_10156466665423236_96160795884257280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeF_7QpXM5c-qhuwmf1ILWRmO7ckuawASBihHTgoZab7QDA60gk8ELlE_tBpRlWB0nCAucLadV-zhyhvtgoGzt904H5klvxFCV98h3GlA1HTkQ&oh=6da79d822564a0cfee18b114ce6bddea&oe=5BA3FA71)

Better photo
And great Aberrant
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36376275_10156466667048236_560896396413108224_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeGxAuxV5Le8fXiYMq_8BWC8YzXFPZEQdsBT2jKOw_RrNzehVI6PkRwHfDvJ6UtUA3hh3HMJ5jvGLYSsJ1af1rAc1MYwEMWOMoHEyT8_SfMYaA&oh=aa1ffcba0a7defa9198668054a763111&oe=5BE60B2D)

From the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h-jRxwhxTk&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on June 29, 2018, 08:40:38 PM
(https://i.redd.it/7algfmw56x611.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sbloom141 on June 29, 2018, 09:53:32 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on June 29, 2018, 08:40:38 PM
(https://i.redd.it/7algfmw56x611.jpg)

I can’t imagine there’s much of a crossover market there! I can imagine this just being a horrific unwanted Christmas present in lieu of proper miniatures that would otherwise be purchased by that auntie who knows her nephews/nieces like ‘the Warhammers’ lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 29, 2018, 09:57:47 PM
 lol yes, terrible. Bought by the hardcore W40K and Hardcore Monopoly collector crowd
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on June 30, 2018, 08:40:23 AM
Abaddon the Despoiler has launched his 14th black crusade...all the hotels shall be his!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on June 30, 2018, 08:50:24 AM
"What do you mean 'I've got a Get Out Of Exterminatus Free card'?"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 30, 2018, 09:32:20 AM
My only happy Monopoly encounter was Pokemon monopoly played with group of wargaming friends in some downtime..:P

So dont discard it too quickly :P It could be hilarious!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 30, 2018, 12:15:51 PM
That gunslinging Stealer is great!
 :-*

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 30, 2018, 12:34:49 PM
I know right ?

And make me want to do posse of hybrid gunslingers on some forgotten texas/mexico border looking planet with tumbleweed and all.. vs Salomon Kane from the Inquisition :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on June 30, 2018, 03:59:55 PM
You see the new models on Warhammer Community?

Here's one:

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/AoSOpenDay-June30-Harrows5zd.jpg)

The Nighthaunts are looking pretty amazing... though I'm pretty sure I couldn't do them justice with my brush.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 30, 2018, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: AWu on June 30, 2018, 12:34:49 PM
I know right ?

And make me want to do posse of hybrid gunslingers on some forgotten texas/mexico border looking planet with tumbleweed and all.. vs Salomon Kane from the Inquisition :P

Stop it!
 >:D

As I have just the right scenery collection for that scenario.....
 ;)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on June 30, 2018, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: Mason on June 30, 2018, 04:08:57 PM
Stop it!
 >:D

As I have just the right scenery collection for that scenario.....
 ;)

Well you are two thirds there already then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 30, 2018, 10:08:21 PM
Quote from: Mason on June 30, 2018, 04:08:57 PM
Stop it!
 >:D

As I have just the right scenery collection for that scenario.....
 ;)

I have nil but you sir.. have even less.. you have no excuse :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on June 30, 2018, 11:44:21 PM
Some of the Nighthaunt stuff looks really nice, I really like the new Black Coach in particular - though I'm dreading how much it is likely to cost...

I had the old one once upon a time for my Vampire Counts army but it was the only thing that got lost in a house move about 5 years ago and I've never found it since. The new one is far nicer so I might get one for my old VC army which I only use in 9th Age games these days.

It is just a shame that some of the newer Nighthaunt units don't transition well into the VC army for 9th Age so whilst they are nice, I've not got a real reason to pick a lot of the units up, especially when my hobby pocket money is limited.  :'(

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: powerfrog99 on July 01, 2018, 07:44:00 AM
I never took to AoS, and one major cause was the drastic change of the model size. Orks, Khorne (the more Space Marine guys) Tzeentch Tzangor and Stormies were just not fitting to my collection of buildings, landscapes and armies. I have to admit I was always a bit inflexible when it comes to scales and sizes, and Orks as big as ogres (my mate actually plays them as ogres in WHFB) I understood as: We don't want the old stuff any more!
So although some of these models were really great stuff I was out... :( :(

Surprisingly for me with the snake ladies and the fish elves the size seems now back to normal and my interest grew back to some extend :)
Now these Nighthaunt really do it for me :o :o, I am back buying GW models  :D
An army of ghosts is in the planning and hte starting boxes are in the post  ;D ;D

Now it's just creating some profiles for WHFB and the ghost will enter the fray on our tables  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 01, 2018, 06:41:39 PM
Quote from: AWu on June 30, 2018, 12:34:49 PM
I know right ?

And make me want to do posse of hybrid gunslingers on some forgotten texas/mexico border looking planet with tumbleweed and all.. vs Salomon Kane from the Inquisition :P
Logan’s worlds helsreach  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Romark on July 01, 2018, 10:10:31 PM
Just wondering if there are any rumors about new human troops in the pipe line
to replace the old Perry Empire plastics ?
Curious,that's all,honest  ,not tempted by the new ghosties,really  ;) :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 01, 2018, 11:23:08 PM
I have not heard anything but I am mainly interested in 40k.
Sigmarites made them a little redundant.

On thing sure looking at other releases they will be different.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on July 02, 2018, 09:28:45 AM
New Warhammer 40K roleplaying game up for pre-order - http://www.ulisses-us.com/wrathandglory/

The TTG article explains it a bit more - http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/wrath-glory-warhammer-40000-role-playing-game-available-for-pre-order/

Quote
The adventures in Wrath & Glory take place in the new era of Warhammer 40,000 that was introduced with the 8th Edition of Warhammer 40,000 miniatures game.

This is a galaxy torn asunder by a great warp storm that altered reality itself forever bringing the great rift.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 02, 2018, 03:23:35 PM
Quote from: Romark on July 01, 2018, 10:10:31 PM
Just wondering if there are any rumors about new human troops in the pipe line
to replace the old Perry Empire plastics ?
Curious,that's all,honest  ,not tempted by the new ghosties,really  ;) :)
Are you referring to these guys?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Empire-State-Troops (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Empire-State-Troops)

Those aren't Perry designed, but by the same guy who did the Pro Gloria/Warlord Landsknechts. IIRC, the Perry ones were the single pose spearmen and handgunners in 6th and the multipart plastics, with metal components, in 5th and carried in to 6th, sans metal parts.

GDubs probably has no intention of releasing new humans, as they're too busy pushing their $igmarines. Some of us thought that the Darkoath Warqueen would usher in new generic barbarian sculpts, to replace those subpar Chaos Marauders, but I don't think there will be anything new in the near future.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 02, 2018, 03:53:33 PM
But then the Wight King chappie brought some new Nighthaunts so maybe the Darkoath queen and fungus head goblin will bring some friends too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Romark on July 02, 2018, 05:04:13 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on July 02, 2018, 03:23:35 PM
Are you referring to these guys?
Yep,those are the ones I was thinking of :)I thought Alan Perry designed them?
Shame then,as try as I might,I just can't like the Sigmarite style of minis :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 02, 2018, 05:53:56 PM
I heard something about new Goblins and new chaos is always in the works as long as its Nurgle  :-X

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 02, 2018, 06:00:10 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 02, 2018, 03:53:33 PM
But then the Wight King chappie brought some new Nighthaunts so maybe the Darkoath queen and fungus head goblin will bring some friends too.
Maybe...

The Darkoath Warqueen and Fungoid Cave-Shaman are Grand Alliance character figures released with Malign Portents and tied to existing ranges, like the stuff released with Storm of Chaos, so we won't be seeing anything from either faction for some time. Undead variations are all the rage and released with Ao$ 2.0, along with umpteenth $tormcast tome. Pics of the DW figure has her leading generic Marauders, so I doubt these will get new versions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 02, 2018, 06:07:35 PM
Quote from: Romark on July 02, 2018, 05:04:13 PM
Yep,those are the ones I was thinking of :)I thought Alan Perry designed them?
Shame then,as try as I might,I just can't like the Sigmarite style of minis :(
Perrys have a distinctive style, like realistic feathers and a lack of reliance on caricatures for faces. The archers and greatswords aren't bad, so why the awful State Troops and handgunners/crossbowmen? The Empire Free Company/Mordheim Mercenaries were discontinued and I thought these would be great for conversions, due to the weapon variety, but GDub$ has decided to prune anything not Sigmarine. If I interpreted a pic correctly, Stormcast are getting a battlecat like mount, while "Free Peoples" no longer have barded warhorses in what amounts to a poor man's Planescape setting.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on July 02, 2018, 07:15:36 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on July 02, 2018, 06:07:35 PM
Perrys have a distinctive style, like realistic feathers and a lack of reliance on caricatures for faces. The archers and greatswords aren't bad, so why the awful State Troops and handgunners/crossbowmen? The Empire Free Company/Mordheim Mercenaries were discontinued and I thought these would be great for conversions, due to the weapon variety, but GDub$ has decided to prune anything not Sigmarine. If I interpreted a pic correctly, Stormcast are getting a battlecat like mount, while "Free Peoples" no longer have barded warhorses in what amounts to a poor man's Planescape setting.   

I don't think horses exist in the AoS world!

If I'm correct, the Stormcast now have three different cavalry units on monsters.... The dragon-cat things.... The bird/griffon things... And now some sort of battle-cat thing, which I think are supposed to be different to the earlier more reptilian ones?

Meanwhile we have elves riding sharks and eels.....

It's only the 'evil' factions that have suggestions of horses.... I.e. the Varanguard (is that the name?) are on big mutated / demonic sort-of-horse things, and the new ghost faction have hints of undead horses on a few of the new units (but still no fully formed skeletal horse!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 02, 2018, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: Charlie_ on July 02, 2018, 07:15:36 PM
I don't think horses exist in the AoS world!

If I'm correct, the Stormcast now have three different cavalry units on monsters.... The dragon-cat things.... The bird/griffon things... And now some sort of battle-cat thing, which I think are supposed to be different to the earlier more reptilian ones?

Meanwhile we have elves riding sharks and eels.....

It's only the 'evil' factions that have suggestions of horses.... I.e. the Varanguard (is that the name?) are on big mutated / demonic sort-of-horse things, and the new ghost faction have hints of undead horses on a few of the new units (but still no fully formed skeletal horse!)
Pistoliers and Outriders ride on horrible looking horses...

The War Altar of Sigmar and the Celestial Hurricanum are pulled by armored warhorses...

Dragon Princes aka Dragon Blades ::) rely warhorses and so do the Dark Elves, who are part of Order. 

Horses aren't extinct, they just don't fit in with the imagery of Ao$...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on July 02, 2018, 09:38:55 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on July 02, 2018, 07:18:21 PM
Pistoliers and Outriders ride on horrible looking horses...

The War Altar of Sigmar and the Celestial Hurricanum are pulled by armored warhorses...

Dragon Princes aka Dragon Blades ::) rely warhorses and so do the Dark Elves, who are part of Order. 

Horses aren't extinct, they just don't fit in with the imagery of Ao$...

Ah, but those are all 'old warhammer' releases! I'm talking about the new AoS factions that have been released. I imagine eventually all the old ranges will be discontinued. For example when the new 'normal' elf faction comes out, I think the old high elf range will go. Though it's possible parts may remain (example being the witch elf units are now part of a 'real' AoS faction).

I wouldn't be surprised when the new 'high elves' one day come out their cavalry will be riding eagles, mini-dragons, lions, etc rather than horses.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 02, 2018, 09:41:06 PM
This is releasing (re release but accompanying Nighhaunts release)  this week.. of course we might say that horses are risen from long dead carcases but I think lack of horses is too much :P
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207045_Hexwraiths01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on July 02, 2018, 10:11:06 PM
Oh ok, fair enough.  :)

Still, there have technically been no new horses released since AoS hit.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 03, 2018, 01:31:33 AM
Quote from: Charlie_ on July 02, 2018, 09:38:55 PM
Ah, but those are all 'old warhammer' releases! I'm talking about the new AoS factions that have been released. I imagine eventually all the old ranges will be discontinued. For example when the new 'normal' elf faction comes out, I think the old high elf range will go. Though it's possible parts may remain (example being the witch elf units are now part of a 'real' AoS faction).

I wouldn't be surprised when the new 'high elves' one day come out their cavalry will be riding eagles, mini-dragons, lions, etc rather than horses.
You mentioned horses, nothing about 'em being new or old... ;)

The Grand Alliance abilities - Order, Destruction, Chaos and Death - have been removed from the General's Handbook 2018, along with the abstract siege rules, and placed in the core rulebook. So if you like to mix and match, you'll have to get the hardcover, though all the other abilities for Free Peoples and etc. are in the GH - I guess 4 pages took up too much space, in a book shorter than last year's one. :-I According to one poster on the Grand Alliance Community, the GH2018 refers to a battleplan that's in the core rulebook. I thought I could ignore Malign Sorcery, but I might have to get it too, for the artifacts.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 03, 2018, 10:13:11 AM
Quote from: AWu on July 02, 2018, 09:41:06 PM

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207045_Hexwraiths01.jpg)
Anyone else think that the top left horse looks like a carrot on a stick coaxing the horse on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on July 03, 2018, 04:00:44 PM
Just the angl3 of the pic, fantastic figures though
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 03, 2018, 06:03:28 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 03, 2018, 10:13:11 AM
Anyone else think that the top left horse looks like a carrot on a stick coaxing the horse on.

Now as you mention it.. yes :P
But i think the miniature swing it in reality :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 05, 2018, 02:37:38 PM
Sorry for duble post but it will make thread show  ;)

Kill Team info landed
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Kill-Team-box-set-Infographic-EDITvg.jpg)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/05/5th-july-kill-team-the-game-youve-been-waiting-forgw-homepage-post-2/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=KillTeamRecruitmentVideoJuly5&utm_content=KillTeamRecruitmentVideoJuly5

Starter terrain looks amazing, with that low model count maybe it will cost same as AoS ad DI starters

What is most interesting is FAQ file
It has info about Rogue Trader as expansion to Kill Team about Rogue Trader

Those guys Ive been waiting for ages :)
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/KillTeamLaunch-July5-Terrain20by.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 05, 2018, 03:30:06 PM
After a brief flick through it looks fairly promising...just after I spent the remainder of my gaming budget for the year  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 05, 2018, 03:39:07 PM
Its a trap. I know I will want Rogue Trader Kill Team.. and I suspect similar price point.. I could buy one of them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 06, 2018, 02:13:56 AM
I have to say I'm tempted. DAMN YOU GW!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on July 06, 2018, 09:06:41 AM
Looks like they're making what could be a relatively inexpensive small scale skirmish game very expensive indeed.

No surprise there.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 06, 2018, 09:13:05 AM
Well no prices yet but I am sure you are right.

At the same time they are at least selling the rulebook separately so if you already have terrain and minis then that's all you need. Otherwise the boxed game is likely to be a good deal, though obviously you could grab the rulebook and a normal box set of minis and just use stand-in terrain or make your own.

I like the idea of Kill Zones but I'm not sure I would buy one unless if I particularly wanted the terrain.

The idea of the Kill Team with a bit of terrain is a good idea to slowly grow a terrain collection but I'm sure they won't be cheap.

I guess with GW if they don't see a regular return from the Kill Team sets then it will just pass onto the back burner but it does sound like the game is being designed around a slower buy-in to 40k which makes sense.

Hopefully we will see some plastic Eldar Rangers at some point now...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on July 08, 2018, 10:45:14 AM
Nice concept, but doubtless the pricing and release schedule will bear the typical GW flaws.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 08, 2018, 11:56:45 AM
Looking at what we have seen all models are released , it will be only repacks so far. So it should be playable from the start.
Personały not that tempted but I had fun with Shadow War even if brief and the box was well worth the price for scenery alone.
But I will have to get RogueTrader. Question is will it be playable from the box (as stand alone should be).

ANd why bother with new system if Necromunda is very good indeed (it has some problems but core is very playable and works).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on July 08, 2018, 01:01:14 PM
Quote from: AWu on July 08, 2018, 11:56:45 AM
ANd why bother with new system if Necromunda is very good indeed (it has some problems but core is very playable and works).

This. If they focussed a bit instead of producing three (four?) self competing games... The tantalising prospect of a necro ruleset with some actual editing in a complete volume. Sigh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on July 08, 2018, 06:24:40 PM
Or combine it.

I would love my delaques having to fight a smaller *insert chaos/xenos* incursion.

Still haven't played origional Kill-team, but that's on me. It seemed like a good excuse for some light 40k gaming, but nothing spectacular.
I'll probably get into this eventually. It looks tempting. And I sure have plenty of models to play it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on July 10, 2018, 10:47:16 AM
I was excited by kill team to start with.
but then my GW skepticism came back...
will I still need to buy a dozen codex and index and download countless PDF to only use a dozen miniatures?
will it be as much a shambles as necromunda was and still is? I don't want to buy a Kill War Team book every 2 or 3 months for the privilege of using my toys.
is it going to be mutilated and all the fun and joy sucked out by the community like 8th edition 40k?

ugh...I can't get excited anymore after 10yrs of bitter disappointment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 10, 2018, 01:35:32 PM
:D I know what you mean...I think I have been fighting my disappointment with GW since 2nd ed :D

I can at least confirm that the rulebook has all the rules you need for the first 16 factions as mentioned in the Kill Team FAQ. However, they are releasing faction specific Tactic cards in each of the Kill Team starters.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on July 10, 2018, 03:53:48 PM
But will the rules on the tactic cards be available elsewhere? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 10, 2018, 04:45:42 PM
If tactics are that snippets they post for each band with command points - it is possible.

With Necromunda cards GW even dont provide card list for any product they sell.. not to mention rules on them..
They are all fanmade
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on July 14, 2018, 08:05:37 PM
Some new "made to order" entries up - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=2512876101+2950365987)

Got to say, I don't remember many of them, which surprises me slightly. Mix of metal, plastic and resin

Also a bunch of Stormcast stuff up for pre-order - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=2512876101+3206404541&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+%3C%3D+1531598460000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1531598460000%5D)

I do like Astreia Solbright, Lord-Arcanum (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Etb-Astreia-Solbright-Lord-arcanum-2018). However, it's a 90mm oval base, which means it looks like the figure is over 90mm tall o_o

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120218035_AstreiaSolbrightHiRes01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 14, 2018, 09:37:22 PM
Not much to me but I might get AoS entry leaflet with new Stormcast for Ł5.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on July 15, 2018, 02:36:29 AM
Quote from: zemjw on July 14, 2018, 08:05:37 PM
I do like Astreia Solbright, Lord-Arcanum (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Etb-Astreia-Solbright-Lord-arcanum-2018). However, it's a 90mm oval base, which means it looks like the figure is over 90mm tall o_o

Probably will pick her up one day (loving the female stormcast), but I would definitely put something else in her right hand, probably an axe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 15, 2018, 04:45:48 AM
I like the look of the undead lord on the throne. I'd be tempted to turn it into a palanquin though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 15, 2018, 12:19:41 PM
Something new to Munda at last
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37117189_1877689378918316_6911310937198690304_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeEhEFOPZSRMmTS44hZ0JRkKyYJjYyLxL2ziDtQymfUThjzigaZfSMFpE2sk6pQwEB_a8zoMyWgSG6mkS3pKGYDNO1rFZ-yoa271pHJTo0cOpw&oh=e0a4003807a6acdd2ed206a30aec4987&oe=5BDBDE1D)
Cawdor we have seen - now clean of paint.

But new cards set for campaign looks interesting.
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36279857_10156504101508236_7430726032660889600_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeEKDSuN8DheN9oIC4ExHA37n7ngWTjfJDPs9NmSUQvamAlyUtml5zPEJxIn55qVbUOsfyBvn7giEJa3XIWZQnyEGeIKk_h5kDwGfxlrSrjiIA&oh=647146bc5d59161de147cf247a27fdb4&oe=5BE0654E)

Although I hope rules are included in the GW IV (we dont know anything about what it contains apart from 3 pages of Cawdor rules..

In the other news they also shown new LOTR set (Rohirrim and army of the dead vs Mordor) and Blood Bowl cheerleaders for 4 or 5 teams.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 16, 2018, 06:33:39 AM
I used to have Gorbad, Zacharius, and of course Grom back when I played.

The night haunt flugelhorn trio is something I WANT to like... but I just CAN’T.

I feel sad when I think of Warhammer ... I loved 4th through 8th ... but just can’t seem to get back to where I once belonged. Get back, JoJo.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 17, 2018, 08:55:11 AM
I have to admit, I was salty about AoS for a long while, but with the new stuff coming out (particularly the fact that your army doesn't go into a mass panic if your general dies) I might have a look at it. The $55 starter set isn't too bad and I might even get some use out of the stormcast guy that comes with the $14 book.

Then again, with the lancing that Bretonnians got (their warscrolls honestly don't seem that bad to me) my usually gaming friend won't dive in with me, so odds are I wouldn't get much use out of them at all. Not like I've got money to burn right now, anyways.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 18, 2018, 03:40:55 AM
Quote from: AWu on July 15, 2018, 12:19:41 PM
Something new to Munda at last
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37117189_1877689378918316_6911310937198690304_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeEhEFOPZSRMmTS44hZ0JRkKyYJjYyLxL2ziDtQymfUThjzigaZfSMFpE2sk6pQwEB_a8zoMyWgSG6mkS3pKGYDNO1rFZ-yoa271pHJTo0cOpw&oh=e0a4003807a6acdd2ed206a30aec4987&oe=5BDBDE1D)
Cawdor we have seen - now clean of paint.

But new cards set for campaign looks interesting.
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36279857_10156504101508236_7430726032660889600_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeEKDSuN8DheN9oIC4ExHA37n7ngWTjfJDPs9NmSUQvamAlyUtml5zPEJxIn55qVbUOsfyBvn7giEJa3XIWZQnyEGeIKk_h5kDwGfxlrSrjiIA&oh=647146bc5d59161de147cf247a27fdb4&oe=5BE0654E)


Although I hope rules are included in the GW IV (we dont know anything about what it contains apart from 3 pages of Cawdor rules..

In the other news they also shown new LOTR set (Rohirrim and army of the dead vs Mordor) and Blood Bowl cheerleaders for 4 or 5 teams.

Some gangwar 4 details are now up (https://www.facebook.com/notes/garro/gang-war-4-details/1878454805508440/)

cawdor rules
6 new scenarios
rules for Bionics
domination campaign system
revised skirmish rules
more hired guns and characters

And they brought back the killer cyborg scenario!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on July 19, 2018, 05:08:47 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 17, 2018, 08:55:11 AM
I have to admit, I was salty about AoS for a long while, but with the new stuff coming out (particularly the fact that your army doesn't go into a mass panic if your general dies) I might have a look at it. The $55 starter set isn't too bad and I might even get some use out of the stormcast guy that comes with the $14 book.

Then again, with the lancing that Bretonnians got (their warscrolls honestly don't seem that bad to me) my usually gaming friend won't dive in with me, so odds are I wouldn't get much use out of them at all. Not like I've got money to burn right now, anyways.

My regular opponent back in 5th (pre dark ages and internet  lol) was a Bret player; her regularly spanked my lizardmen.

Down with Bretonnia ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: powerfrog99 on July 19, 2018, 06:40:10 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 15, 2018, 04:45:48 AM
I like the look of the undead lord on the throne. I'd be tempted to turn it into a palanquin though.

Oh yes a great model, I'm thinking of putting it on a scenic unit base together with some of these reapers  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 21, 2018, 03:35:55 AM
Hmmm $220 for Killteam. No thanks. Oops $250 NZ
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Warhammer-40k-Kill-Team-2018-eng
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 21, 2018, 07:10:14 AM
Australian dollars, that is. Same price as the AoS and 40k starters - less minis, but quite a hefty chunk of scenery from the looks of things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 21, 2018, 09:31:50 AM
That shakes out to £120, although there does always seem to be a lump added to Australian prices, so perhaps it'll be cheaper in the UK. Although, you do need to have the 40K ruleset to play the game as well, which might raise eyebrows when you're paying over £100 for a board game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on July 21, 2018, 10:06:36 AM
Yeah! Kill Team Starter Set pre-ordered, £63.80 inc. UK delivery. Been wanting this since missing out on the Shadow War starter set. :-)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 21, 2018, 10:43:05 AM
lol. Actually I put the wrong price for my region (NZ) $250. So 100% markup.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 21, 2018, 10:53:38 AM
Quote from: Cubs on July 21, 2018, 09:31:50 AM
That shakes out to £120, although there does always seem to be a lump added to Australian prices, so perhaps it'll be cheaper in the UK. Although, you do need to have the 40K ruleset to play the game as well, which might raise eyebrows when you're paying over £100 for a board game.

Nope. This is a stand alone game so you don't need the regular 40k rulebook or any codexes. Full rules are included as well as Faction rules and Faction tactics, though not all as cards.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 21, 2018, 11:08:12 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 21, 2018, 10:53:38 AM
Nope. This is a stand alone game so you don't need the regular 40k rulebook or any codexes. Full rules are included as well as Faction rules and Faction tactics, though not all as cards.

Oh, I thought I'd read on Boardgame Geek that you needed the core rules? If that's £60+ then for the full set that's a lot more reasonable. Not cheap, but certainly reasonable compared to similar board games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tomrommel1 on July 21, 2018, 11:20:35 AM
preordered a set here in Germany it is 106 Euros
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on July 21, 2018, 12:05:38 PM
Kill Team looks like it could be a game my son would happily play with me, but I'll just be getting the core rules. 

I've got plenty of toys - Marines and Tyranids already painted and ready to go, Orks needing painted.   I also have loads of scenery already and I can make the cards myself. 

Also considering the First Strike  boxed set which would give me a Death Guard team and loads of Primaris options for the Marines. 

Looks like it should be a lot of fun for a relatively low investment.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 22, 2018, 02:31:52 PM
Quote from: Derek H on July 21, 2018, 12:05:38 PM
Looks like it should be a lot of fun for a relatively low investment.

This exactly. A great way to taste something new and not having to dig out every last penny from under the couch. Will order Kill Team and if I like it, will - of course - get me some more teams.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on July 22, 2018, 02:42:38 PM
Just checked at Wayland Games and Warhammer 40K: Killzone is €79.18 including shipping to Belgium, not too bad!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ninefingers on July 27, 2018, 09:57:16 PM
Kill Team is the first GW game that I've bought into since they brought out that LOTR starter set with the plastic Fellowship figures. I've even bought the Deathwatch Kill Team set, fair play to them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 27, 2018, 10:29:52 PM
A deathwatch kill team. My boy would be into that. He's playing Spacehulk Deathwing on the PC at the moment and loving it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 28, 2018, 03:45:40 AM
Quote from: Cubs on July 21, 2018, 11:08:12 AM
Oh, I thought I'd read on Boardgame Geek that you needed the core rules? If that's £60+ then for the full set that's a lot more reasonable. Not cheap, but certainly reasonable compared to similar board games.

You can get the core rules separately, instead of buying the whole starter box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on July 28, 2018, 08:25:48 AM
The black coach has been put up for pre-order on the NZ webstore

$230NZ  :o

That is so eye watering expensive  :'(

I may have to sell some of my children...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 28, 2018, 10:12:00 AM
Phew, roughly twice the price of the Mortis Engine/Coven Throne kit. That really doesn't make much sense, even for GW.

After seeing some games of Kill Team being played, I can't say I'm very impressed. It certainly is fast and easy to learn, but just doesn't seem to offer much in the way of tactical depth. Still as good an excuse as any to get a little fun force of figures on the hobby desk and then on the table of course.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on July 28, 2018, 12:02:41 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on July 28, 2018, 10:12:00 AM
After seeing some games of Kill Team being played, I can't say I'm very impressed. It certainly is fast and easy to learn, but just doesn't seem to offer much in the way of tactical depth.

I have to confess, I haven't watched any games in play, but have seen some stills. Would a bigger table and more terrain add to the tactical depth?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 28, 2018, 01:32:47 PM
It would probably change it for the better, although perhaps a lot depends on the factions on the table. From what I've seen (also still limited of course, but some different gangs and scenarios), it's just a bit too all-or-nothing. Some of the guns just blow everything off the table and some figures can be so fast that distances don't matter much anyway. Things like the simplistic wound system and limited variation within at least some of the kill teams don't help either. I suppose I would simply expect a bit more granularity at this scale, a greater importance of positioning etcetera. It's not terrible, but... it just doesn't seem all that interesting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 28, 2018, 01:40:28 PM
As a big fan of 2ed 40k for smaller scale stuff I think ill stick to Shadow War (or 2ed 40k!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on July 28, 2018, 03:09:20 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on July 28, 2018, 01:32:47 PM
It would probably change it for the better, although perhaps a lot depends on the factions on the table. From what I've seen (also still limited of course, but some different gangs and scenarios), it's just a bit too all-or-nothing. Some of the guns just blow everything off the table and some figures can be so fast that distances don't matter much anyway. Things like the simplistic wound system and limited variation within at least some of the kill teams don't help either. I suppose I would simply expect a bit more granularity at this scale, a greater importance of positioning etcetera. It's not terrible, but... it just doesn't seem all that interesting.

That's a bit disappointing (serves me right for pre-ordering before the reviews come out)!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on July 28, 2018, 03:49:20 PM
I think it looks fun and there seem to be a lot of decisions to be made in game, certainly more than 40K. But I guess that's not saying much. There have been lots of mistakes in the videos (there are some poorly worded rules) and some players seem to love ignoring cover in favour of standing in the open. I guess that's a hangover from playing 40k?

Glad I downloaded the ebook and it's got me planning lots of kill teams. Though I'll be jamming in all sorts of extra stuff such as characters, just because the rules, stats and weapons are so similar to 40k it would be a waste not to!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 28, 2018, 04:46:33 PM
There certainly are a number of small changes to the normal order of things (literally - more back and forth in a game turn) that are nice improvements on normal 40k (which I don't rate very highly). Can't imagine it being too difficult to simply add in more profiles and factions yourself, that will certainly make the more restricted lists much more interesting. And as said, it's great for hobby projects - be it a small band of themed conversions, or indeed just not wanting to paint more than a handful of Harlequins.  ;)

In addition, the new terrain is really well done - a clever design making it very versatile, and you can't go wrong with flying buttresses. It's interesting how quite some recent GW figures have become much less flexible in their construction, while they now release this scenery that can be built in many ways and combines perfectly with some other kits - something they seemingly can't bother with within the same sprue of Necromunda fighters.


As an aside, I'm trying to understand why the vampire in the new Black Coach is all chained up. I thought the casket was just a nice sleeping spot basically, and the article description doesn't seem to indicate a major change in its role for the AoS world. So why not have a normal sleeping vampire, as depicted on the lid of the sarcophagus?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on July 28, 2018, 05:55:51 PM
It’s explained here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/24/24th-july-reinventing-the-black-coachgw-homepage-post-4/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/24/24th-july-reinventing-the-black-coachgw-homepage-post-4/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 28, 2018, 07:57:17 PM
Ah, look at that - thanks!

Still doesn't really make sense why they keep him tied up. Ah well, it matters little as I'd build the kit with the lid on.. and won't do either at anything near that pricepoint anyway. Bit of a shame for one of the few new releases that both has a clear use in 'old' Warhammer armies, and stylistically still fits well in them too. Still can't believe it's twice the price of a Mortis Engine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 28, 2018, 11:16:28 PM
Just saw the new kill-team rules courtesy of a friend and must say...disappointed to be quite honest, while the gameplay itself looks fun I miss the modularity of shadow war when it comes to weaponry, the whole rule about making only rules for minis really puts a dampener on conversion opportunities.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 29, 2018, 06:44:36 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on July 28, 2018, 01:32:47 PM
It's not terrible, but... it just doesn't seem all that interesting.

My thoughts exactly
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tjgreenway on August 01, 2018, 04:26:21 PM
I've ordered Kill Team as a gateway back into 40k - I'm hoping it'll be a fun little game that I can play while I'm painting up my accidental Marine army - I do think the real fun will come with future expansions though,  really hoping that they'll expand the options available a bit. That being said,  I've mostly bought the set for the terrain and the models, as I'm starting from scratch with sci-fi terrain and I've wanted to paint some Hybrids up for ages! Really liking the look of the skirmish size boards that are included in these boxed games too,  I can see myself getting plenty of use out of it.

If the game sucks,  I'll just switch to a different ruleset for my 40k skirmishing - there's plenty of options out there!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 01, 2018, 06:53:37 PM
They seem to be doing something right.   Profits just about doubled last year, while turnover was up about 30% http://bit.ly/2O2FQmt
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on August 01, 2018, 07:16:30 PM
Would anyone happen to know how fancy/varied those background generators in the Kill Team rulebook are?
Even if the rules aren't all that impressive, I might find those nice to have around.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 01, 2018, 07:21:59 PM
I believe the generators are fluff only with no rules. I think the idea is that they encourage players to create a story for their team to better convert them with a sense of character but as I said, there are no rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on August 01, 2018, 08:00:58 PM
They're OK. Here's an example result from the Imperial Guard entry:

Catachan Name: Gunnarsen
Background: Penal Trooper (then a short paragraph of fluff)
Mission: (sort of their 'motivation') Hold at All Costs (then a short paragraph of fluff).
Squad Quirk/Trait: Faithful (fluff)
Specialist: Dutiful.

They're quite good prompts - the way they can interact with each other gives you a few good ideas. I suspect there's significantly better ones out there, but personally I find it very exciting that GW is including these small, pseudo-RPG bits in their games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 01, 2018, 08:14:38 PM
Just been watching a bit of the Clone Wars series...I was really getting the vibe that Kill Team could be used to recreate those sort of battles in 40k.

It's a shame that there aren't any rules for light vehicles yet as sentinels and such like would be fun even if they were lighter versions or something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on August 01, 2018, 08:38:17 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 01, 2018, 08:14:38 PM
It's a shame that there aren't any rules for light vehicles yet as sentinels and such like would be fun even if they were lighter versions or something.
Time to bring back Tin Boyz methinks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on August 01, 2018, 09:44:58 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 01, 2018, 07:21:59 PM
I believe the generators are fluff only with no rules. I think the idea is that they encourage players to create a story for their team to better convert them with a sense of character but as I said, there are no rules.

Ah, sorry - I wasn't very clear. I meant the gameplay rules themselves being, by the sounds of people, rather lacklustre, not that the background generators themselves needed to have rules.  :)


Quote from: Jagannath on August 01, 2018, 08:00:58 PM
They're OK. Here's an example result from the Imperial Guard entry:

Catachan Name: Gunnarsen
Background: Penal Trooper (then a short paragraph of fluff)
Mission: (sort of their 'motivation') Hold at All Costs (then a short paragraph of fluff).
Squad Quirk/Trait: Faithful (fluff)
Specialist: Dutiful.

They're quite good prompts - the way they can interact with each other gives you a few good ideas. I suspect there's significantly better ones out there, but personally I find it very exciting that GW is including these small, pseudo-RPG bits in their games.

That does sound nice, thank you.  Could definitely use those with ITEN...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 03, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
I love this art so much.. New but soo Confrontation at the same time

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38252524_1908110329209554_562824729354829824_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=29bed20e3c92e42348ea502208289bf2&oe=5BCBF74B)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 03, 2018, 07:51:41 PM
Absolutely - pure class that. I'm very much looking forward to any and all Necromunda models to be released in the next year or whenever they'll come out. Quite a few interesting designs from the look and sound of things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 03, 2018, 10:41:24 PM
Just bought the kill team book (ebay rather than NZ prices)
Looks like I'll be getting a couple more lictors for an all lictor kill team with some variations.
Also a good chance for bringing out the old school genestealer cult.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 03, 2018, 11:46:37 PM
Always loved the idea and art but not the model themselves of Lictor. Current one is quite cool but failcast :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 04, 2018, 02:44:42 AM
Just found out a couple of days ago I have a 10 pound ebay voucher since I haven't spent anything on there in ages. Was going to buy something anyway!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 05, 2018, 12:36:12 PM
Looking at the Cawdor sprue on the GW site, I'm kinda surprised. On the plus side, it looks waaaay less fiddly than those fuckin' van saars, but it also looks like there aren't as many options as you might expect. Only one heavy weapon, for example (it is the silly panzerfaust-bow).

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 05, 2018, 03:48:36 PM
Eschers have none.

What bugs me are only 2 basic weapons not mounted on the spears + 4 pistols+flamer pistol).

I guess they are forcing the theme.
On the other side Cawdor wont be difficult to convert.

From one perspective this is very cool but as old time Necro players I miss my choice. Ive never adopted houselist in my 1st ed campaigns.
Updated weapons list are some relief but they are missing some stuff. I would prefer to rise the price of the boltgun by ex 10 creds in Eschers than ommit it altogether.
Especialy when its available in the market as common equipment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tjgreenway on August 08, 2018, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 01, 2018, 08:14:38 PM
It's a shame that there aren't any rules for light vehicles yet as sentinels and such like would be fun even if they were lighter versions or something.

I reckon something will eventually appear for using bigger models in games, probably aimed at narrative or open play. For a friendly game between friends, though, it'd be easy enough to write in walkers and the like as a kind of challenge scenario, with the stat lines being pretty much the same as their 40k counterparts (I know some amendments have been made in cases, but it should be easy enough to eyeball whether something needs a change or not for casual play  :D )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 11, 2018, 10:08:36 AM
This may just be my favourite product GW has done in ages. A set of measuring sticks shaped like some of Middle-earth's iconic weapons - in sizes relevant in game to the particular weapon (e.g. Sting is 4", the movement distance of a Hobbit). They're pointless yet useful. They're glorious.

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/MiddleEarth-Aug9-Image4o.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 11, 2018, 10:09:42 AM
Adeptus Titanicus up for pre-order - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=3281529261+995043222+3699755487&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+<%3D+1533981780000+and+product.endDate+>%3D+1533981780000%5D&utm_campaign=95bbb31ff2-GW_11th_August_Adeptus_Titanicus_EN_EU&utm_medium=email&utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-95bbb31ff2-114551345)
Won't spoil the surprise by giving away the price, but it's probably as well not to have your mouth full of water when you look at the page  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 11, 2018, 10:27:09 AM
Quote from: zemjw on August 11, 2018, 10:09:42 AM
Adeptus Titanicus up for pre-order - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=3281529261+995043222+3699755487&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+<%3D+1533981780000+and+product.endDate+>%3D+1533981780000%5D&utm_campaign=95bbb31ff2-GW_11th_August_Adeptus_Titanicus_EN_EU&utm_medium=email&utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-95bbb31ff2-114551345)
Won't spoil the surprise by giving away the price, but it's probably as well not to have your mouth full of water when you look at the page  :o
lol
I looked at the price and expected the titans to be massive. The Warlord is only 6" big. Yes that is large but not for the price!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on August 11, 2018, 10:50:47 AM
I’m not interested in the main game, but I’ve preordered to boxes of knights, can’t wait to get stuck in to those! Looks to me that they’ll be fine for 6mm, judging from comparison pics I’ve seen on Instagram. I can feel a gladiatorial knight project coming on - the equivalent of the old tourney on a knight world. I also might treat myself to a titan at some point for 6mm terrain - the plastic kit would make breaking it up into a ruined wreck much easier. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on August 11, 2018, 10:51:19 AM
GW just lined up all the sharks in the world's vast oceans and not only jumped them but have overshot and can currently be seen orbiting the earth.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 11, 2018, 11:52:14 AM
HAHAHA...is it April already?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 11, 2018, 01:37:22 PM
This sad pricing..

But lets return to fun GW :

Sword make me want to platy Hobbit game <3 Lovely stuff..
(I still have One ring that was bonus on Fellowship sprue near mu painting station and play with it sometimes :P


And after reading Gang War 4 i am in love with bomb rats rule.
Its soo old school and cool. Most funny GW rule made in like 20 years :P

You can deploy bomb rats and if you pass Int test they will went 6 inches the way you want them to.. otherwise they will go at random..
If you are in 9 inches at the begining of the turn and pass int testthey will go the way you want, otherwise thjey will go random.
And you can deploy more.. each turn. You can have horde of random running critters that will explode near any model  :-* lol

I was Cawdor skeptic but now I am building the rats :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on August 11, 2018, 02:03:33 PM
That's an awesome rule. There will be some very funny games!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 11, 2018, 03:51:04 PM
So if a maniple consists of 3-5 titans then each player needs to spend at least £240!


Hmm...no thanks GW, that game is too specialist for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ballardian on August 11, 2018, 05:18:14 PM

 Loved the original Ad.Tit. so really want to like this one - good models but the size increase seems to apply to the price too :'( I suppose when you consider the cost of your average 40K army £200 + doesn't seem so extreme - let's see what the discounters do with it - seen the Warlord for £52 as opposed to full GW whack, but I imagine you'll still need a couple, plus Reavers, Warhounds (& now Knights). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 11, 2018, 05:22:35 PM
Yeah in an article on Warhammer Community they say a basic game starts with a maniple of 3-5 titans plus knights.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 11, 2018, 08:50:55 PM
While Titans are cool I watched demo game on Yt and it looks kinda boring with tons of dice rolls with little consequences..
I wasnt planing to buy it because of financial reasons but now I dont have second thoughts.

It will stay Munda and BBB for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 13, 2018, 12:09:39 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/08/13/13th-aug-genestealer-cults-in-necromunda-freefw-homepage-post-3/

Genecult rules for Necromunda update and download.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 14, 2018, 12:36:35 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on August 05, 2018, 12:36:12 PM
Looking at the Cawdor sprue on the GW site, I'm kinda surprised. On the plus side, it looks waaaay less fiddly than those fuckin' van saars, but it also looks like there aren't as many options as you might expect. Only one heavy weapon, for example (it is the silly panzerfaust-bow).

Now Im still waiting for my box to turn up, but pretty sure there is a heavy stubber attached to one of the pole weapons?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on August 14, 2018, 12:55:15 PM
At $55, I might consider picking up the box of small titans, for...reasons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 14, 2018, 08:58:53 PM
Wasn't sure if I should post this here or in its own thread, but Nordic Weasel Games have just published Renegade Scout (https://www.wargamevault.com/product/249657/Renegade-Scout--Bleeding-Edge-Retro-Gaming), which claims
Quote
What is Renegade Scout? Other than 179 pages jammed full of gaming goodness?

*Renegade Scout is very old:

It is a “retro-clone” of the venerable Rogue Trader game rules many of us grew up on, offering mechanics that are familiar and well-loved to fight fantastical battles between brave heroes, terrible monsters and strange space aliens.

You can even grab your original figures right off the shelf and battle it out, using the conversion rules presented in the back.

*Renegade Scout is very new:

This isn’t a simple copy with a new lick of paint.

Everything has been updated and rewritten to play in a way that feels modern and elegant, removing the clumsy and awkward to keep the game moving and exciting.

*Renegade Scout is open to playing the game your way.

You can grab almost any figures you already own. We’ve included profiles for 15 alien species, several human troop types and monsters.

You can customize your own heroes and roll up random equipment and skills.

If you like how they do, you can level them up across multiple games, at least as long as you can keep them alive.

If you like to play campaigns, we include tools for two different approaches.

If you like vehicles or psychic powers, we got those.

An army builder? Off map artillery? Calling in evac choppers? A beefy section on how to solve everything from breaching doors to building things mid-battle?

We have all those.

Random tables? Strange terrain types? Space ghosts? Yes, yes and yes.

What if you have never written a scenario before? What if you want to be the GM? What if you don’t know how to paint a miniature? What if you want to play solo?

Included are advice sections for all of these situations and more.

It's on Wargames Vault for $19.99.

I still have plenty of Rogue Trader figures, so I may pick this up at some point. Again, apologies if this should have been in its own thread
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 14, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
You can have a Space Ghost?

(http://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/spaceghost_0.jpg?resize=1100x740)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 14, 2018, 09:32:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BP6mh2O5T8

This made me kinda sad a little

New Warbuggy

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lEPKHGI_kaY/W3MRdYKofCI/AAAAAAABfIc/kj6P2Af4ewAfHssYeKnP8U5ni5LI5prmQCLcBGAs/s1600/sf6.PNG)

21 years.. and I was playing GW games when old warbuggy was new one  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 14, 2018, 11:49:07 PM
I can remember the old one coming out along with the wartrak and truk.

I remember the older versions. I think the metals were still the late Rogue Trader / very early 2nd ed. So they'd been around a fair while too. Ooooh yes!

(http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/rt205orkbuggy/wd98p23rt205orkbattlebuggyx-02.jpg)

And for good measure:
(http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/rt070546orkvehicles/Wd112p27OrkFieldGunWartrakxx-02.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 15, 2018, 08:37:29 AM
Looks good to me. The new buggies are coming in a new game and though some are calling it the new GorkaMorka I think it will likely be one bought mostly for the minis. From what little has come out about it I am getting a GorkaMorka meets Dark Future vibe which is cool.

On a side note while the GW video is funny it is sad to see such a cool older mini being smashed...I guess that is GWs new MO, Kill The Past.

Renegade Scout sounds interesting but there is no way I would drop $20 on something without at least a preview.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 15, 2018, 10:00:59 AM
I like that new model in fairness, but it needs a shed load more clearance off the ground, or the first pebble or speed bump it hits is going to rip off the front!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on August 15, 2018, 10:32:05 AM
Quote from: Cubs on August 15, 2018, 10:00:59 AM
I like that new model in fairness, but it needs a shed load more clearance off the ground, or the first pebble or speed bump it hits is going to rip off the front!

I'm not sure the Orks care as long as it went fast and loud.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 15, 2018, 12:25:30 PM
Fast and loud...just not very far :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 15, 2018, 12:55:46 PM
Red go fasta.. not fara..

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 15, 2018, 02:38:52 PM
Looks good. 21 years to get to that.
The Crooked Dice PA buggies are also good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 15, 2018, 02:56:35 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 15, 2018, 08:37:29 AM
Looks good to me. The new buggies are coming in a new game and though some are calling it the new GorkaMorka I think it will likely be one bought mostly for the minis. From what little has come out about it I am getting a GorkaMorka meets Dark Future vibe which is cool.

On a side note while the GW video is funny it is sad to see such a cool older mini being smashed...I guess that is GWs new MO, Kill The Past.

Renegade Scout sounds interesting but there is no way I would drop $20 on something without at least a preview.
Pictors Studio must be behind it... :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 15, 2018, 03:54:00 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 15, 2018, 02:56:35 PM
Pictors Studio must be behind it... :o

?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 15, 2018, 04:17:17 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 15, 2018, 03:54:00 PM
?
If I'm not mistaken, the smashed Ork vehicle is from Gorkamorka? So it'd be plastic? Probably isn't apt in this case, other than the Gallagher act...

In the past, I've had this disagreement with him over on TMP. He's so convinced of the superiority of plastic figures over metal that he issued a challenge: tossing a GW metal sculpt and a plastic one off a building. The plastic figure will come out okay, while the metal one be flattened or something. I don't think it ever occurred to him that a flattened metal miniature might qualify as a Zinnfiguren, while an heat gun to a plastic figure will result in a blob. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 15, 2018, 04:33:10 PM
It's alright. Just a shame they'll probably update nothing else like trakks or heaven forbid some deffkoptas.
If you ain't marines or nurgle you ain't getting much except jack shizzle.

Probably be £50 each as well...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 15, 2018, 04:58:11 PM
:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 15, 2018, 08:17:05 PM
If you're not making scratchbuilt Ork vehicles, you're doing Orks wrong.  >:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on August 15, 2018, 08:19:46 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 15, 2018, 08:17:05 PM
If you're not making scratchbuilt Ork vehicles, you're doing Orks wrong.  >:D

Hua. Remember the WD Gobsmasha?

(https://sho3box.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/gobsmashaplans.jpg)

Glorious.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 15, 2018, 08:33:20 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on August 15, 2018, 08:17:05 PM
If you're not making scratchbuilt Ork vehicles, you're doing Orks wrong.  >:D
Most clubs. Stores and players wouldn't accept them these days
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 15, 2018, 08:54:42 PM
I remember that article...I didn't build it though I went with one of the battlewagons shown at the end of the article...the one with a huge cannon stick out of a house on wheels :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 15, 2018, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on August 15, 2018, 08:33:20 PM
Most clubs. Stores and players wouldn't accept them these days

You're going to the wrong places.  The only place I know where they wouldn't accept that thing would be  a GW shop. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 15, 2018, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 15, 2018, 08:37:29 AM
On a side note while the GW video is funny it is sad to see such a cool older mini being smashed...I guess that is GWs new MO, Kill The Past.

Edit - weird.

I had typed that I'm not sure how true that is. I think it's more that they are re-visiting the past for those too young to have experienced the games the first time round. The new Necromunda is better than 95's, although a little more complex. And there are plenty of references in there to the old such as the Beastman bounty hunter - a nod to an older miniature. And the Squat bountyhunter, not to mention it sounds like we might get Brat Gangs again, first seen in Confrontation (late 80's).

Everything seems to be taking a bit of a deeper delve into the fluff, and is richer for it IMHO.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 15, 2018, 10:16:12 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on August 15, 2018, 08:33:20 PM
Most clubs. Stores and players wouldn't accept them these days

You should tell those clubs, stores, and players to fuck off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 16, 2018, 08:08:59 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on August 15, 2018, 10:09:21 PM
Edit - weird.

I had typed that I'm not sure how true that is. I think it's more that they are re-visiting the past for those too young to have experienced the games the first time round. The new Necromunda is better than 95's, although a little more complex. And there are plenty of references in there to the old such as the Beastman bounty hunter - a nod to an older miniature. And the Squat bountyhunter, not to mention it sounds like we might get Brat Gangs again, first seen in Confrontation (late 80's).

Everything seems to be taking a bit of a deeper delve into the fluff, and is richer for it IMHO.

I loved the original Necromunda but the way GW have handled the new one just puts me right off.

I think we will have to disagree, which is cool. But, GW have been fairly heavy handed in many ways at breaking up what 40k was over the 30 odd years I've been in the hobby; it's gone from a skirmish game where 20-30 minis was considered a big force to game that seems to be almost as big as an Epic game (seriously when you look at some of the Epic battle reports from WD back in the day the armies used are the same size almost as a 40k army in a WD battle report now). Plus they broke up the galaxy and the whole threat from the Eye of Terror for seemingly no reason (Pappa Smurf seems to zap about all over the place). Where once I absorbed 40k in all forms now I barely have any enthusiasm for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tjgreenway on August 16, 2018, 08:35:21 AM
Quote from: Cubs on August 14, 2018, 09:09:53 PM
You can have a Space Ghost?

(http://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/spaceghost_0.jpg?resize=1100x740)

Exactly my first thought when I read this  lol

Tempted to grab these rules, been hoping to find something to handle some small scale, high powered 40k skirmish hijinx in a very narrative sense, and I feel a return to the old school RT style RPG-meets-wargame will be better suited for what I have planned than Kill Team's Open Play or Narrative Play options (at the moment, I'm sure more will be added down the line that may bring it more into line with what I'm after!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 16, 2018, 12:51:02 PM
A few quick questions for anyone who has picked up Kill Team...


Cheers
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on August 16, 2018, 05:31:22 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 15, 2018, 08:54:42 PM
I remember that article...I didn't build it though I went with one of the battlewagons shown at the end of the article...the one with a huge cannon stick out of a house on wheels :D

Not sure but maybr it was this braincrusha? Was in the first WD i bought and it's stuck with me.

(http://wh40k-de.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/7/76/Braincrusha.JPG/300px-Braincrusha.JPG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 16, 2018, 06:12:21 PM
Quote from: waitwhat on August 16, 2018, 05:31:22 PM
Not sure but maybr it was this braincrusha? Was in the first WD i bought and it's stuck with me.

(http://wh40k-de.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/7/76/Braincrusha.JPG/300px-Braincrusha.JPG)
And there were GW models of all these wonderful orky vehicles too - in Epic scale at least - ah, the nostalgia.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 16, 2018, 06:19:06 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 16, 2018, 08:08:59 AM
I loved the original Necromunda but the way GW have handled the new one just puts me right off.


On the plus side rules are logically placed and equipped with great table of contents.
Its much better document for studying the rules than actual mess GW is releasing.
It might be part of its greatness maybe ? Chaos of early more creative period ?
But its frustrating to use as a gaming material.
I have everything they released and I use reddit compilation as rules document..

You are seriously loosing because of prejudice against shitty business model
NeoMunda IS better game than Necromunda was.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 16, 2018, 06:58:43 PM
Quote from: waitwhat on August 16, 2018, 05:31:22 PM
Not sure but maybr it was this braincrusha? Was in the first WD i bought and it's stuck with me.

(http://wh40k-de.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/7/76/Braincrusha.JPG/300px-Braincrusha.JPG)

That's the one :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 17, 2018, 06:28:38 AM
Apparently, the latest Necromunda expansion has been a huge improvement: logical, free of the many inconsistencies of previous books and indeed fixing a number of existing issues. Or: as you should be able to expect from any rulebook, let alone one produced by GW. That said, needing the starter set for the main rulebook and several of the expansions to just play the basic game (depending on your gang of choice, you won't quite require all 4) is still ridiculous. For a player just starting out, that is an immense pricetag for a skirmish game of 10-15 models, not to mention the difficulty in finding relevant and most up-to-date rules scattered over those 5 (and counting) books. I'll just stay with the hobby side of things, hoping that there will be a decently written official compendium by the time my gang is actually finished.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The_Wanderer on August 17, 2018, 08:42:03 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 17, 2018, 06:28:38 AM
. I'll just stay with the hobby side of things, hoping that there will be a decently written official compendium by the time my gang is actually finished.

+1 - It's getting stupid that to play a game you need coming up for 5 books, half of which have duplicate material printed in them or are full of errors. Just going to wait for the compendium....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on August 17, 2018, 06:12:00 PM
For the life of me i can't understand why GW don't put all the army list stuff, if not the rules themselves, online for free as living rulebooks purely as a vehicle to sell more minis. The margins on thd books must be awful and the opportunity cost huge at the prices they are.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 18, 2018, 05:28:43 AM
All involved, please stop referring to and recommending the downloading of illegal copies of copyrighted material.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on August 18, 2018, 05:33:56 AM
Considering i;ve spent £70 so far on the 4 gang war books i'd be pretty pissed if they just suddenly made them all free or even pulled a blood bowl and released them all as one update book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on August 18, 2018, 06:40:38 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on August 18, 2018, 05:33:56 AM
Considering i;ve spent £70 so far on the 4 gang war books i'd be pretty pissed if they just suddenly made them all free or even pulled a blood bowl and released them all as one update book.

If they've done it for Blood Bowl then I would assume that there is a good probability that they'd do a compendium of some sort for Necromunda.

I've personally put off buying any of the Gang War books in the hope that they do eventually do release one and in the meantime will just keep plugging away at painting models and making scenery for a time where I can hopefully play the full game easily without having to bring along the national library to my gaming sessions  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on August 18, 2018, 12:28:21 PM
For a long time GW's stated aim was to stop sprawling rules releases due to the burden it places upon their customers. They are now very cynically and deliberately returning to that method. The thing that surprises me is that so many people seem prepared to go along with it. There are so many alternatives these days. The only thing that could conceivably interest me is Blood Bowl but as their aim is clearly to gouge money, with support and choice/options placed far behind in terms of priority I have no choice but to give it a miss. They can stick their third throwers and meagre rules offerings you know where.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: olyreed on August 18, 2018, 03:00:04 PM
Kill team Rogue Trader seems to be the next thing
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on August 18, 2018, 03:18:00 PM
Flaming 'eck, what is this? Could this mean a return of the big hats?  :D

(https://i.imgur.com/hpXYLh2.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pendrake on August 18, 2018, 05:49:10 PM
A conversion using that endless spell model that looks like a flaming head?

(I would not mind CDs making a comeback.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 18, 2018, 11:21:58 PM
Quote from: olyreed on August 18, 2018, 03:00:04 PM
Kill team Rogue Trader seems to be the next thing

Yes
and I am happy panda


(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39467925_10156586208503236_2133740229394169856_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=4ef2e92b1a0f16a09eb008c400ffdc11&oe=5BF3FB8A)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39306753_10156586211538236_4458536366644396032_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=eeb36632b0d40a25dfc2b3e90d775bf2&oe=5C0E013F)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on August 18, 2018, 11:22:43 PM
Are they plastic sisters in the background?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 19, 2018, 12:31:32 AM
No

Those are plastic brothers unfortunately :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: commissarmoody on August 19, 2018, 03:00:38 AM
Your not going to see sisters tell next year. But they did post 3d images of their weapons load out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 19, 2018, 12:12:00 PM
Kill Team: Rogue Trader looks amazing for those miniatures. No idea if I'll buy the game, but I will be watching ebay like a hawk for the parts breakdown sellers.

The new Space Marine counsel with bionic wrist is also  :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 19, 2018, 03:10:18 PM
Rogue trader is the only thing remotely interesting to me since everything inside is unique and not just recycled garbage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on August 22, 2018, 11:54:26 AM
I stopped playing GW games late 1990's (dont' count WFRP or DH). I haven't even missed any of them, especially since they dropped metals and got into 'finecast' or whatever it's called, and since the miniature's sculpting esthetic has been moving more and more into the 'cartoony' realms.

But I must say I am getting mildly interested in the the games they've done in recent years, from Bloodbowl and Necromunda to Killteam and Adeptus Titanicus (provided it expands into tanks and infantry...) This KT: Rogue Trader could be my way back in?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 22, 2018, 02:15:29 PM
Kill team as a game is kinda bland IMHO, but Necronmunda and Blood Bowl are way to go.
You can play both bands from Kill Team Rogue Trader in Necromunda  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 22, 2018, 08:10:26 PM
It looks like they've decided to do the magazine thing after all - http://www.warhammer40000conquest.com/

First issue £1.99, no idea about outside UK, but they are quoting a euro price

There are standard and premium subscriptions,  £7.99 and £9.49 respectively
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on August 22, 2018, 09:16:25 PM
Euro price is for Ireland.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on August 22, 2018, 10:19:40 PM
Am I missing something or does it not actually say when it's coming out?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 22, 2018, 10:29:13 PM
The email I got:

Quote
Dear Warhammer 40,000: Conquest subscriber,

We are delighted to let you know that on the 29th of August Warhammer 40,000: Conquest will be launching nationally!

As a valued test subscriber, we will be re-activating your subscription from issue 1 and will be sending you the first 3 issues free of charge. This means that you don't need to subscribe again once the new website is live.

For security reasons we could not hold onto your payment details from the test, so you will need to re-enter them. Please look out for an email in the next week detailing how to do this.

If you have any questions about this process or any other part of your subscription, please contact us on Facebook from tomorrow or call us on UK 0333 300 1045 or ROI 0333 300 1046. (Lines are open Monday to Friday, from 9am to 5pm. Local rates apply from a landline).

We'd like to thank you again for supporting Warhammer 40,000: Conquest, and we hope you enjoy your collection!

The free items have changed since the test as well - which is worth noting I guess. Hopefully that helps? Although I'm not convinced launch means hits the shelves, but we'll see I guess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 22, 2018, 10:45:44 PM
Urm … I'm not saying that's a scam email, but it's worded very like a scam email might be worded.

Might be worth just double-checking it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 23, 2018, 07:40:30 AM
I will more than likely pick up the cheap first issues and give the minis to my kids to paint.

The two Nurgle issues (2 & 4) combined may well build a cheap Kill Team so I might grab those for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 23, 2018, 09:24:02 AM
From the FAQ it looks like they're planning 80 issues. At £7.99 an issue (ignoring the first few cheap ones), that adds up to just under £640.

Probably reasonable value given what they're supplying, but still a heck of a lot of cash, and very much in their control as to what you get each issue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 23, 2018, 09:26:19 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 23, 2018, 07:40:30 AM
I will more than likely pick up the cheap first issues and give the minis to my kids to paint.

The two Nurgle issues (2 & 4) combined may well build a cheap Kill Team so I might grab those for me.

3 Plague Marines and six poxwalkers will leave you about 30 points short of a full 100 point Kill Team. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 23, 2018, 10:07:12 AM
I bought the box set of all those minis with First Strike. I might get the second book to get some more Plague Marines and do some conversion work on them. when do they come out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 23, 2018, 11:58:24 AM
Quote from: Derek H on August 23, 2018, 09:26:19 AM
3 Plague Marines and six poxwalkers will leave you about 30 points short of a full 100 point Kill Team. 

Ahh thanks dude. I got my copy of the rules yesterday but I'm not gunna look at it till I finish the minis I'm painting...takes a quick peek... ::)

In that case a 2nd copy of one of those issues should fill use the rest of the points.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 23, 2018, 12:17:56 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 23, 2018, 11:58:24 AM
In that case a 2nd copy of one of those issues should fill use the rest of the points.

Another copy of the issue with three Plague Marines will give you the points you need, but they're easy build figures that only go together one way.  You will have  no flexibility whatsoever in how they look or what they're equipped with.

Two of the figures will be Plague Champions and there's only one of them in the Death Guard Kill Team list. 

To get a viable force with some flexibility you'd really need to buy a £30 box of Plague Marines or hit Ebay. 


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 24, 2018, 12:59:22 AM
Quote from: Cubs on August 22, 2018, 10:45:44 PM
Urm … I'm not saying that's a scam email, but it's worded very like a scam email might be worded.

Might be worth just double-checking it.

It's not.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on August 25, 2018, 10:47:28 AM
The Lord of The Rings - The Battle of Pelennor Fields starter set pre-order has just been launched along with the rebranded classic plastic minatures. Looks like there are again 24 miniatures in a box for £25.00 (£20.00 at discounters), that's some good news as I quite like the perry brothers sculpted range and game which started my miniature wargame hobby way back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 26, 2018, 01:06:13 AM
I was actually casually considering the new LOTR...but the combined rulebook/army book combo is $120...far too much for my "kinda sorta" interest level.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 26, 2018, 04:47:25 AM
 Sigh... If only it was $120 for me  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 26, 2018, 10:01:57 AM
Found on Dakka Dakka.  New stuff for Beasts of Chaos. 
(https://fotos.miarroba.com/fo/37af/295C07D5EC235B826936275B826886.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 26, 2018, 11:46:53 AM
Ahh so that sexplains the bull endless spell then. I guess another of the older ranges translates across fully to AoS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 26, 2018, 03:53:11 PM
I love that bull, but i can't help having "Rider's in the sky" going through my addled brain, whenever i see it.......hmmm?

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pendrake on August 26, 2018, 04:57:08 PM
Once upon a time a headstone was a Terrain Project. That used to be one aspect of ”The Games Workshop Hobby” ...Building your Own, unique, custom terrain.   :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on August 26, 2018, 06:09:51 PM
I remember the WD article where Paul Sawyer (?) built one as part of his slowly building beastman Army. I always remember that Army - they were based so beautifully.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 26, 2018, 06:44:31 PM
Next release is a shark jumping a shark, as a shark jumps over them and is in turn being jumped over by a giant shark covered in glyphs, swirling flames, parchment scrolls (for some reason) and a hundred thousand skullz (with tiny sharks jumping them).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 26, 2018, 07:46:31 PM
Quote from: Pendrake on August 26, 2018, 04:57:08 PM
Once upon a time a headstone was a Terrain Project. That used to be one aspect of ”The Games Workshop Hobby” ...Building your Own, unique, custom terrain.   :-I
Still is, mate.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 26, 2018, 09:06:45 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 26, 2018, 06:44:31 PM
Next release is a shark jumping a shark, as a shark jumps over them and is in turn being jumped over by a giant shark covered in glyphs, swirling flames, parchment scrolls (for some reason) and a hundred thousand skullz (with tiny sharks jumping them).

There is actually an unreleased Forgeworld sculpt of a space marine riding a gigantic flying shark with rocket launchers and bolters attached. The marine has a dorsal fin on the top of his helmet, so presumably when he flies underwater on his shark he can look just like a shark.

Edited to say: can't believe I missed the "putting the marine in Space Marine" pun on first go  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 26, 2018, 10:28:17 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 26, 2018, 06:44:31 PM
Next release is a shark jumping a shark, as a shark jumps over them and is in turn being jumped over by a giant shark covered in glyphs, swirling flames, parchment scrolls (for some reason) and a hundred thousand skullz (with tiny sharks jumping them).

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 26, 2018, 10:31:16 PM
Pre ordered the Middle Earth books.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 27, 2018, 08:55:32 PM
I am really tempted by starter set but I will wait till better cash flow in october (I will get middle earth Orcs for Orktober :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on August 29, 2018, 01:46:43 AM
Quote from: Jagannath on August 26, 2018, 06:09:51 PM
I remember the WD article where Paul Sawyer (?) built one as part of his slowly building beastman Army. I always remember that Army - they were based so beautifully.

Aaaah the rise of good ole' Vradchuk, good times.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on August 29, 2018, 12:16:26 PM
So just in case anyone is still interested in this, I just picked up the first issue ofWarhammer 40,000 Conquest from WHSmith.

Haven't had a chance to look in the magazine yet, but yes, there are three Primaris marines, three paints and a brush, and the price is indeed £1.99.

Be rude not to, really...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 29, 2018, 01:10:38 PM
Quote from: JollyBob on August 29, 2018, 12:16:26 PM
So just in case anyone is still interested in this, I just picked up the first issue ofWarhammer 40,000 Conquest from WHSmith.

Also in Asda.  My son bought 13 of the things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 29, 2018, 01:52:03 PM
I am hoping to pick up a copy or two before they sell out, it'd be a good way of picking up some cheap minis for me kids to paint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on August 29, 2018, 02:25:16 PM
Quote from: Derek H on August 29, 2018, 01:10:38 PM
My son bought 13 of the things.

 :o

I'm actually quite looking forward to the next few issues, and will be interested to see what else the mags come packaged with over the weeks. Can see myself having a few impulse purchases, although the inevitable "build a Chaos Defiler in 24 parts" and "its not a ruler, its a bolter shaped tactical range-finder, honest!" may get a pass...   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 29, 2018, 02:30:09 PM
It won't be in the shops after a few issues.  None of these part-works ever are. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 29, 2018, 05:26:22 PM
Yeah I picked up 3 of them, and then had an argument with the CO-OP staff who tried to charge me £5.99 each
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on August 29, 2018, 05:35:13 PM
Was going to buy 5 or 10 issues on the Partworks website but it's only for UK customers ...

Anybody willing to help out a poor European mainlander?   ???   :D Please send a pm
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on August 29, 2018, 08:24:28 PM
So it looks like it's only the first two issues that are reduced in price now, but the website now shows the full collection available.

Depending how they portion them out there could still be some good deals on offer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 30, 2018, 05:45:39 AM
Are these not available internationally. I'd like to get a few for my son.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tjgreenway on August 30, 2018, 07:23:10 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 30, 2018, 05:45:39 AM
Are these not available internationally. I'd like to get a few for my son.

UK and Ireland only t start, but likely to be rolled out elsewhere if they're successful - GW have strongly hinted that they're waiting to see how it's received before going international, which is fair enough.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 30, 2018, 10:04:41 AM
It looks like everything up to now is from the various starter kit boxes. Cant imagine them including tanks an stuff, though you might get one of them Nurgle bloat fly engine thingies
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on August 30, 2018, 10:34:57 AM
This is what they're promising on one of the bits of paper that comes with the thing. 

(https://spruesandbrewsblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/img_20180829_0957077708208484204328923.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 30, 2018, 11:22:30 AM
New Shadespire Undead from the second starter set.
I would prefer more banshees but i love them..

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/NovaReveals-Aug29-WHUWNighthaunt21hrcv.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on August 30, 2018, 11:24:27 AM
Especially the chap carrying his own skull and the fellow with candlestick and keys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on August 30, 2018, 11:35:22 AM
Re the Conquest partwork...

So anything that comes on more than one sprue is going to be split across multiple issues, you reckon? Take the grav-tank for example - probably what, three issues at eight quid a time? That's £24, less than half the price of buying one from your local GW shop...  :?

This is slowly becoming more tempting, even though there is no need or justification for me buying it...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 30, 2018, 11:45:49 AM
I wonder if they will end up putting a small piece of the tanks in each issue plus a few miniatures. That way you have to buy many issues to get the complete kit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on August 30, 2018, 12:07:35 PM
Given that the subscription model is to send out four issues together once a month, it would be very easy for them to split a tank over several issues and it still arrive in one go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 30, 2018, 12:35:45 PM
My Mrs went all over town this morning but no sign of the Conquest mag anywhere...that sucks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 30, 2018, 02:00:44 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 30, 2018, 12:35:45 PM
My Mrs went all over town this morning but no sign of the Conquest mag anywhere...that sucks.

Yeah I've been 4 places today looking and there is no luck for me, everywhere is either sold out or don't stock it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Brown on August 30, 2018, 02:58:32 PM
A local GW store manager made the, obvious but I still missed it, point that if you and a friend split it between two with one taking Marines and the other Deathguard, you are spending around £16 a month for a fair chunk of stuff by the end of it.
Most folks playing 40k will probably average a £16/month spend so this isn't bad at all. I'll see about getting the first couple of issues available in stores for Kill Team and conversions etc., but a subscription isn't for me.

The new Underworlds stuff is looking very nice. The Nighthaunt in particular are pretty characterful and will 'flesh' out my AoS army nicely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 30, 2018, 04:10:53 PM
It's also worth noting that after around 5-6 issues it will be subscription only. So you won't be able to just walk into a shop and buy the ones you want. Which is standard for Partworks and the like I believe.

Also, for those that are looking in the obvious places, the co-op's in my area have stocked them too. So whilst ASDA sold out quite quickly there were a number in my local co-op.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on August 30, 2018, 04:37:44 PM
None in my Co-op, local Newsagent or Tescos. :(
Might have to go on a little hunt soon... I can't help thinking the evil eBay barons might snatch them all and make a profit on flogging them!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 30, 2018, 06:03:41 PM
I hadn't spotted that it'd be going subscription only.

My Co-Op doesn't stock it but the wife FB'd the local GW and they are putting a couple of copies aside for me to collect tomorrow.  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 30, 2018, 06:36:34 PM
Friend of mine got it for his son in WH Smith’s in Dorset uk
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on August 30, 2018, 06:56:34 PM
I picked up two in my local Co-Op this morning.
Like someone else said they were mis-priced at £5.99m but the staff happily changed to the correct £1.99.
Next issue will be £4.99 and then subsequent ones £5.99

I was going to grab a couple of issue 2 if they'd stayed at £1.99 but as I don't play Nurgle £4.99 makes it unlikely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jambo1 on August 30, 2018, 07:03:37 PM
Not a GW fan and not a sci-fi gamer but I have bought this to give it a try. Looks a decent enough magazine and minis and paint!! :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tjgreenway on August 30, 2018, 07:39:10 PM
Well, the reveals from Nova have certainly piqued my interest - I'll be swerving the Pro game, but Warhammer Quest 40K sounds like it'll be fantastic and seems like Slaanesh may be getting some love soon - just in time to coincide with the Slaaneshi themed Inquisitor campaign I'm planning. Those, plus the Kill Team Rogue Trader pretty much puts paid to any chance of me saving any money this year, at this rate my 5 month old daughter will have more in her account than I so soon  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 30, 2018, 08:50:24 PM
Slaaneshian stuff is meant for 2019 i heard. But as its my favourite power i wonder whet will we see.

Quest stuff is buy for sure. Especially that it will have few characters (incl Rogue trader) and 3 new Chaos marines ! Not Nurgle bastards but plain undivided guys!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Harry Faversham on August 30, 2018, 10:32:23 PM
Got 6 magazines this afternoon, that's 18 figures. Went to the boozer to celebrate and after mi' third pint a plan was cogitated... stand by for the 'Bridgemen'!

:)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Poiter50 on August 30, 2018, 11:53:31 PM
Saw them in Dublin Easons and WH Smith just the last week. Didn't check price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ninefingers on August 31, 2018, 07:04:51 AM
I restrained myself when I saw it by chance in Smiths the other day - and only bought one. The three Intercessors will form part of a Kill Team with some marines I found in a box the other day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 31, 2018, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: TWD on August 30, 2018, 06:56:34 PM
I picked up two in my local Co-Op this morning.
Like someone else said they were mis-priced at £5.99m but the staff happily changed to the correct £1.99.
Next issue will be £4.99 and then subsequent ones £5.99

I was going to grab a couple of issue 2 if they'd stayed at £1.99 but as I don't play Nurgle £4.99 makes it unlikely.

Subsequent issues will be £7.99.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on August 31, 2018, 02:52:37 PM
It seems that the magazine is also being sold in Europe after all. A group of 40k fans in Spain bought it:

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on August 31, 2018, 02:56:15 PM
And here's a topic about it (in Spanish): https://www.cargad.com/index.php/2018/08/27/warhammer-40-000-fasciculos-en-castellano/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 31, 2018, 03:28:32 PM
I went to my local GW today, for the first time in ages, to collect a couple of copies as previously arranged by PM on FB and they were closed for training. No mention of that yesterday when it was arranged with the store manager. When contacted about it he didn't apologise, just said I've got a box of them so come and get a copy before we sell out. Wow...great customer service...perhaps I should just count my blessings that GW allow me to buy their stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Bibliophile on August 31, 2018, 04:06:06 PM
I'm admittedly new to this hobby, having only played for about two years now. I was excited to hear that GW was reviving the Middle Earth line...

...until I saw today that just to buy the two books to play the game will cost nearly $200!

Am I crazy? Are they crazy?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Middle-earth-Rules-Collection-2018-eng
 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Middle-earth-Rules-Collection-2018-eng)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DeafNala on August 31, 2018, 04:29:46 PM
To be honest, I am crazy AND I wouldn't buy the books at any price...I am also not fond of Lord of The Rings or G.W..
HOWEVER, there are Folks who LOVE LotR and/or G.W. who will drop their coins for a copy. Miniatures & miniature games are a divine obsession or true love depending on your point of view. What we, as a group, will spend our available bucks on isn't necessarily sensible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 31, 2018, 04:33:40 PM
My local doesn't reserve copies of things either. I've asked before, it's not policy. They also limited copies to three per customer to prevent someone walking in and buying them out of stock in one go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on August 31, 2018, 04:34:05 PM
Oz prices...


Still expensive everywhere else, mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on August 31, 2018, 04:37:18 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on August 31, 2018, 04:34:05 PM
Oz prices...


Still expensive everywhere else, mind.

Yeah I was going to say... A lot cheaper in the UK.

I've ordered them. Not from GW mind. It's cost me 56 pounds (about 100 Australian dollars) which is a bit steep... But I want them so what you gonna do?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 31, 2018, 06:11:17 PM
This is the kind of topic that should be best discussed within the GW thread, hence my joining the two.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on August 31, 2018, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Bibliophile on August 31, 2018, 04:06:06 PM
...until I saw today that just to buy the two books to play the game will cost nearly $200!

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Middle-earth-Rules-Collection-2018-eng
 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Middle-earth-Rules-Collection-2018-eng)
That's a link to the Australian web page.

The US one is here (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Middle-earth-Rules-Collection-2018-eng). The two are $120. (One  of them comes in the starter box set though.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Bibliophile on August 31, 2018, 10:49:04 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on August 31, 2018, 04:34:05 PM
Oz prices...


Still expensive everywhere else, mind.

Didn't realize I had stumbled into the Australian pricing. My apologies. $120 is still expensive, but not as crazy as I had initially thought!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jamesmanto on August 31, 2018, 11:30:54 PM
Quote from: The Bibliophile on August 31, 2018, 10:02:34 PM
I'm admittedly new to this hobby, having only played for about two years now. I was excited to hear that GW was reviving the Middle Earth line...

...until I saw today that just to buy the two books to play the game will cost nearly $200!

Am I crazy? Are they crazy?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Middle-earth-Rules-Collection-2018-eng
 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Middle-earth-Rules-Collection-2018-eng)

They aren't crazy if people will pay that much.

I get my Middle Earth fix with Dragon Rampant and not GW figures.

Get some lovely Footsore Goths to use as Rohirrim. Conqueror Models make FANTASTIC dwarves. Oathmark do some nice plastic Elves and Goblins and Dwarves. Anyone's German tribesmen or some Gripping Beast Dark Ages types (irish maybe or Picts) for Dunlendings.  I've seen some really nice Elves made from Norman troops with added plumes and cloaks etc.

Lots of options out there. You don't have to use GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 01, 2018, 01:39:30 AM
$140 in Canada.
I opted in. Swapped a second set for more Rohirrim than you can shake a spear at. Thanks to my buddy Wally for the great deal!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 01, 2018, 01:43:12 AM
I'd only really be interested in the Nazgul on the beast. out of that stuff. It is quite nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 01, 2018, 01:48:37 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 01, 2018, 01:43:12 AM
I'd only really be interested in the Nazgul on the beast. out of that stuff. It is quite nice.

Honestly the old metal one is nicer. If you can find one it’s worth it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on September 01, 2018, 03:09:23 AM
Australia has always suffered when it comes to gw, other countries pay way less.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 01, 2018, 05:08:03 AM
Quote from: grant on September 01, 2018, 01:48:37 AM
Honestly the old metal one is nicer. If you can find one it’s worth it!

:) If I could find one cheap I would but at least $100 is a bit too much lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on September 01, 2018, 06:26:19 AM
That new Middle-earth starter set looks to be decent value - the annoying type of pricing where you may as well shell out for the whole thing if you just want the book and some of the figures inside, as buying those seperately would cost the same, but now they're accompanied by another mountain of minis which you are sure to find a use for at some point. Not great for the backlog though.

Pretty happy with what I've read of the rule changes too - clearly aimed at both more balance and more theme, the latter of which is certainly not unimportant for the immersion into the setting. It looks to become the best edition of one of GW's best games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: peleset on September 01, 2018, 07:20:55 AM
Agreed, not crazy just unseemly.

I don't follow this game, so I wonder how much of this is new and how much is old material. Perhaps a trawl of Ebay for an old edition could scratch your itch and give you a better idea of if you want to go #@$%! deep into the GW money pit.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ethelred the Almost Ready on September 01, 2018, 07:45:45 AM
I agree with Peleset, I would try to get an older version of the rules. I suspect little will be changed.  Wait a few months until people have written a few reviews and then decide whether you need the new rules.
There are few GW figures I would use.   Northstar for elves and orcs (goblins), Conqueror for dwarves.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on September 01, 2018, 08:42:38 AM
This is not like the usual GW rules releases where i.e. a new codex has a few points changes and two new units. Fixing some inbalances, creating new ones that will be partly fixed with a new codex of another army that now has things to be fixed etc.

They spent the past two years revisiting and revising every single profile in the game, doing so simultaneously to create interesting and balanced rules all across the line (rather than the power creep that otherwise is typical). Special rules have been reworked and rewritten to avoid confusion in interactions, while rewarding thematic play and armybuilding.

The main ruleswriter is both a highly competitive player and has a great love of Middle-earth, both of which show. Older versions of the game were certainly playable, and I enjoyed them a lot, but some parts were quite messy or just too clearly imbalanced. It really looks as if they tried to fix that and create a better game, rather than sell more of whatever thing's new. Just because it's Games Workshop doesn't mean it can't be made with passion and quality in mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: RAD on September 01, 2018, 10:03:58 AM
Does anyone knows if the rules include small  scale skirmish rules like battle companies?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: olyreed on September 01, 2018, 10:40:40 AM
I don't think the new rules will have battle companies in it, I will check later when I get my copy but they only recently released the battle companies rule book, think it was the first to go under the Middle Earth title that GW have changed to
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 01, 2018, 11:21:02 AM
New epic Reaver Titan up for pre-order - £35.00 https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Adeptus-Titanicus-Reaver-Battle-Titan-2018

I have one of the originals in my display case. May have to pick this up,  if for no other reason than nostalgia  :D

Will be interesting to see how much bigger the new one is
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on September 01, 2018, 11:57:00 AM
Quote from: zemjw on September 01, 2018, 11:21:02 AM
New epic Reaver Titan up for pre-order - £35.00 https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Adeptus-Titanicus-Reaver-Battle-Titan-2018

I have one of the originals in my display case. May have to pick this up,  if for no other reason than nostalgia  :D

Will be interesting to see how much bigger the new one is
Me too, except my old metal Reaver is still to be constructed - and I just ordered the new one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on September 01, 2018, 01:34:55 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on August 31, 2018, 04:33:40 PM
My local doesn't reserve copies of things either. I've asked before, it's not policy. They also limited copies to three per customer to prevent someone walking in and buying them out of stock in one go.

I just managed to get the last copy in my local WH Smith's by fractions of a second because the guy stood in front of them paused to readjust the pile in his arms. :(

I have to question the morality of the people buying these in bulk. What are you gonna make on this after fees and postage, like a tenner maybe? Personally I'm feeling guilty enough picking one up, thinking about the feel-bad of the kids coming along later. Smh
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 01, 2018, 01:37:37 PM
None of the newsagents, Tesco or what have you around me are selling it but my father in law managed to pick up a couple of copies (for my kids) from his village newsagent and they are in the middle of nowhere. The distributions seems really hit and miss.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on September 01, 2018, 11:47:28 PM
If you've got a Games Workshop / Warhammer shop near you, drop in there, they've always got a copy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on September 01, 2018, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on August 31, 2018, 02:52:37 PM
It seems that the magazine is also being sold in Europe after all. A group of 40k fans in Spain bought it:

No import either, it's actually in Spanish and cheaper too at 1.5€... £1.30-ish. When I was living there GW was usually more expensive than in the UK.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on September 02, 2018, 12:03:14 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on September 01, 2018, 08:42:38 AM
This is not like the usual GW rules releases where i.e. a new codex has a few points changes and two new units. Fixing some inbalances, creating new ones that will be partly fixed with a new codex of another army that now has things to be fixed etc.

They spent the past two years revisiting and revising every single profile in the game, doing so simultaneously to create interesting and balanced rules all across the line (rather than the power creep that otherwise is typical). Special rules have been reworked and rewritten to avoid confusion in interactions, while rewarding thematic play and armybuilding.

The main ruleswriter is both a highly competitive player and has a great love of Middle-earth, both of which show. Older versions of the game were certainly playable, and I enjoyed them a lot, but some parts were quite messy or just too clearly imbalanced. It really looks as if they tried to fix that and create a better game, rather than sell more of whatever thing's new. Just because it's Games Workshop doesn't mean it can't be made with passion and quality in mind.

Well, you have certainly made me think about it.
 :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 02, 2018, 10:36:34 AM
Ok, so middle earth.

When people talk about imbalance it tends to mean 'tournament' style play where you want to be able to have a game where you have two evenly matched forces line up against each other.

I think it's really important to remember that this is not what the original LotR game from GW was intended for. Hence they had different books for the different movies.

It encouraged you to replay moments from the movies and books and had scenarios to depict that. So naturally, when converting it to play in competitive games it was going to have imbalance issues because at least initially, it was intended more for narrative play.

Although I have not played masses of it, for me, it was one of the best sets of rules GW had released in a long time for proper skirmish level - small sided armies.

I loved the 'hero' mechanic that allowed interruption of play and inspired moments. I still feel that this could have been brought into the other games. I felt it really depicted how a truly heroic character or personality can affect a battle.

So in large, I'm not overly surprised it needed balancing for how they now would like people to play the game, mainly because the origins were quite different.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 02, 2018, 01:31:26 PM
I think the sound of rules was always more interesting to me than the setting with LotR. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the LoTR films (not the Hobbit) but the game itself never grabbed me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on September 02, 2018, 01:40:06 PM
On the Warhammer Conquest front: If you get a subscription from Issue 2, you get Issue 3 for free. If you then ALSO get a subscription from Issue 4, you get Issue 4 for free and you get Issue 5 and 6.

So, you get:
Issue 2 - £4.99
Issue 3 - Free
Issue 4 - Free
Issue 5 - £7.99
Issue 6 - £7.99

You also get two sets of their mini mould scrapers and plastic glue. All for a total of £20.97.

Then ring up and cancel the subscriptions after delivery.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 02, 2018, 01:42:28 PM
That sounds incredible cheeky, but considering the way these magazines generally work, can't blame you!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 02, 2018, 01:56:36 PM
I read a review of the mags and apparently the customer service is shocking with them ignoring requests to cancel. When punters have cancelled DD with the bank the mag publisher then accuses you of owing money. It still all kinda sounds a bit shady and vague to me.

Here is the review... https://fauxhammer.com/reviews/warhammer-conquest-magazine-review-issue-01/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 02, 2018, 03:35:08 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on September 02, 2018, 01:40:06 PM
On the Warhammer Conquest front: If you get a subscription from Issue 2, you get Issue 3 for free. If you then ALSO get a subscription from Issue 4, you get Issue 4 for free and you get Issue 5 and 6.

So, you get:
Issue 2 - £4.99
Issue 3 - Free
Issue 4 - Free
Issue 5 - £7.99
Issue 6 - £7.99

You also get two sets of their mini mould scrapers and plastic glue. All for a total of £20.97.

Then ring up and cancel the subscriptions after delivery.

It doesn't work like that. The subscription isn't taken out weekly. It's delivered monthly. So if you phone up to cancel, you either cancel this months or next months delivery.

So when it says after 4 deliveries - it is talking months in reality. Not issues.

Edit: see here - https://www.warhammer40000conquest.com/how-it-works/

So you can't earn the reward for your 1st delivery twice. And if you step in and out and then back in, it will count deliveries like that so if you skip a month or two I'm guessing you can still earn the other freebies if you total enough deliveries.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on September 02, 2018, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 02, 2018, 03:35:08 PM
It doesn't work like that. The subscription isn't taken out weekly. It's delivered monthly. So if you phone up to cancel, you either cancel this months or next months delivery.

So when it says after 4 deliveries - it is talking months in reality. Not issues.

Edit: see here - https://www.warhammer40000conquest.com/how-it-works/

So you can't earn the reward for your 1st delivery twice. And if you step in and out and then back in, it will count deliveries like that so if you skip a month or two I'm guessing you can still earn the other freebies if you total enough deliveries.

Your first first delivery (which will happen two weeks from now) is:

Issue 2 - £4.99, Issue 3 - Free, Citadel Modelling Set

After this, you cancel this subscription.

Then your second first delivery (which will happen five weeks from now) is:

Issue 4 - Free, Issue 5 - £7.99, Issue 6 - £7.99

After this, you cancel this subscription.

You set up two concurrent subscriptions at the same time. You then cancel the subscriptions as the deliveries occur. The whole system will be automated, no one will check to see if you've got your first time bonuses improperly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 02, 2018, 04:22:13 PM
Yeah, I think you could get away with that IF you used a different address and someone else's payment method. Otherwise the subscription is assigned to an account with your address and details. So if you cancel and restart, it won't count as your first delivery again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: twrchtrwyth on September 03, 2018, 07:36:21 AM
I'm not sure discussing what is effectively cheating is the kind of thing gentlefolk should be discussing, especially not in such a public way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dampfpanzerwagon on September 03, 2018, 06:16:12 PM
After seeing the TV adverts, I picked up three packs from my local WH Smiths store. I might get (1) issue two as the figures and paint pot still looks great value, but issue three is less good value.

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LjPQqVAVAKM/W4zkyyG7-dI/AAAAAAAAUAs/sSY7IKHIgWoTziSu1ogs-jtzysAKw6AzQCLcBGAs/s320/screenshot_20180315-2149302.png)

Tony

See Blog for more details.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on September 03, 2018, 08:19:03 PM
The return of Rogue Trader is just a week away - seems that pre-orders are open next weekend.
I am finding the Rogue Trader and crew difficult to resist - their are some descriptions on the GW Community page; the board less so, but then again I am not a fan of printed boards. It seems there are corridors, which I like. The Nurgle lot (Nurgle does seem to be a big thing - figuratively as well as literally) I'm still uncertain about, but I get the nasty feeling they'll grow on me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 03, 2018, 09:22:22 PM
I wouldnt count too much on corridors. My bet is second board will fit on the opposite side of the first.

But I love it and  Ive pre ordered the game in my local FLGS..
I wonder if full KT rules will be included. I dont intend to play KT but it would be nice.

Ive built Rogue trader team already but the characters are great.

And I love big mutants  and small critters :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 04, 2018, 12:20:20 PM
Quote from: twrchtrwyth on September 03, 2018, 07:36:21 AM
I'm not sure discussing what is effectively cheating is the kind of thing gentlefolk should be discussing, especially not in such a public way.

I agree totally.

As someone who has subscribed, I can tell folks it just does not work like that. You have an account with Hatchett and you subscribe through that. So a bit like being a member on here and then say, signing up to a lead adventure mini monthly box thing. You could unsubscribe but still have your account.

So you can't unsubscribe a disappear off their radar and come back pretending to be a new customer. They have run partworks tons of times and have others running right now. They are not going to make it easy for people to make them possibly go bankrupt by fiddling lots of freebies from them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 04, 2018, 08:42:44 PM
I agree on being slightly disturbed by sharing plans to technically steal product from gaming company (its GW -  but this dont change a thing really)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on September 04, 2018, 10:20:41 PM
Quote from: AWu on September 04, 2018, 08:42:44 PM
I agree on being slightly disturbed by sharing plans to technically steal product from gaming company (its GW -  but this dont change a thing really)
It is like the magazine-buying equivalent of list-abusing power-gaming  :D

On a different note, I cannot wait for the RT game to come out. I need to own those imperial miniatures!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on September 04, 2018, 10:49:20 PM
Quote from: twrchtrwyth on September 03, 2018, 07:36:21 AM
I'm not sure discussing what is effectively cheating is the kind of thing gentlefolk should be discussing, especially not in such a public way.
Quote from: mcfonz on September 04, 2018, 12:20:20 PM
I agree totally.

As someone who has subscribed, I can tell folks it just does not work like that. You have an account with Hatchett and you subscribe through that. So a bit like being a member on here and then say, signing up to a lead adventure mini monthly box thing. You could unsubscribe but still have your account.

So you can't unsubscribe a disappear off their radar and come back pretending to be a new customer. They have run partworks tons of times and have others running right now. They are not going to make it easy for people to make them possibly go bankrupt by fiddling lots of freebies from them.
Quote from: AWu on September 04, 2018, 08:42:44 PM
I agree on being slightly disturbed by sharing plans to technically steal product from gaming company (its GW -  but this dont change a thing really)

I don't think accusing people of theft on a public forum when they're paying for a product is a gentlemanly thing to do. lol

If you have a coupon that says "£10 off purchases over £40, valid once per purchase" and you use it twice, is that theft? No, of course not. Theft is an actionable crime. Accusing someone of committing a crime when they're suggesting something similar to clever coupon use is pretty unreasonable, in my personal opinion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 04, 2018, 11:27:49 PM
While i think that your example is faulty (Its more like - buy 40Ł and get something worth 10Ł free, then return stuff you bought, get 40ł back, buy it again to get another freebie  and then return main stuff again - get 40 back but keep the freebie scheme )

I dont think LA and this thread is a place to discus schemes like this
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 05, 2018, 05:39:22 AM
It's obviously veering into fraudulent behaviour (and outright fraud, in a legally enforceable way, IMHO, under German law; UK might be different).

At the very least, it has an ethically rather unsavoury air. Will all involved please cut it out now before you post something that may land you in hot water.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on September 05, 2018, 12:05:44 PM
Since I can tell you guys are unhappy with this, I'll stop and remove past messages. I do want to state that I disagree that theft, fraud or anything illegal or unsavoury has been suggested here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 05, 2018, 12:22:40 PM
Your own previous post did not  even agree with your next, changing from using a coupon twice to having two coupons, don't mind structured discussion, as long as its consistent, but don't care, its not the topic I want to read about here, so glad its gone.

Thankfully in most cases in our modern world there are mechanisms stopping you using a coupon more times than you are supposed to.

Look forward to this topic getting back on topic and moving on :)

If I see some of those magazines I might pick some up but unlikely, i really trying to find a way of justifying getting a chunk of titanicus, but will not be this month for sure!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on September 05, 2018, 12:39:01 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on September 05, 2018, 12:22:40 PM
Your own previous post did not  even agree with your next, changing from using a coupon twice to having two coupons, don't mind structured discussion, as long as its consistent, but don't care, its not the topic I want to read about here, so glad its gone.

It made no relevant difference to the point anyway. ::)

Two coupons each usable once is the same as a single coupon usable twice.

Anyway, like I said, time to stop the discussion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 05, 2018, 12:45:40 PM
On a more positive note, and especially for me as they are my current gang in action, GW have updated and made available for free, the Chaos Cultist rules for Necromunda - which you can find here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/04/the-dark-gods-rise-in-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 05, 2018, 12:55:39 PM
The Horus Heresy box sets have been removed from sale, is this the beginning of the old stumpy marine being purged in favour of the new taller primaris...or just making way for something new? Time will tell  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on September 05, 2018, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on September 05, 2018, 12:55:39 PM
The Horus Heresy box sets have been removed from sale, is this the beginning of the old stumpy marine being purged in favour of the new taller primaris...or just making way for something new? Time will tell  ???

I think they probably did a limited run and then (shocker) discovered sales died off as soon as the invalidated the scale of the HH marines.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on September 05, 2018, 01:19:10 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on September 05, 2018, 12:55:39 PM
The Horus Heresy box sets have been removed from sale, is this the beginning of the old stumpy marine being purged in favour of the new taller primaris...or just making way for something new? Time will tell  ???

Well... no, because all the figures in those boxes are available in separate sets.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 05, 2018, 01:27:45 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 05, 2018, 12:45:40 PM
On a more positive note, and especially for me as they are my current gang in action, GW have updated and made available for free, the Chaos Cultist rules for Necromunda - which you can find here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/04/the-dark-gods-rise-in-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/

And what a much nicer updated gang it is now..
I absolutely loathe limiting wargear options to be based on single plastic set..
Now they are cool

GW made Chaos great again :>

My only little against is that they did not include Cult brute wile there are many options to choose from, and 3 more will be available next week..
Ambull and Ogryn are ok but Big mutants with tentacles would be better :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 05, 2018, 02:31:12 PM
Yeah I misread the spawn being available for purchase in Skirmish games only at first . . . . . now I have to hope I fail a roll.

Mutants would be cool, extra limbs even . . . . which Stealer cultists have so surprised they haven't gone that route with CC's. Not only that but the actual miniatures available are quite limited. You can only get the basic grunts now, so conversions are required.

That said, I do have 'Tentacle' in my gang who has a tentacle for an arm and it counts as a flail. After one of our first Necro '17 games he has been nicknamed 'Tentai'  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 05, 2018, 02:54:16 PM
Spawn is very cool little gimmick but can be costly to upkeep. It would be best probably to have 3 dedicated Spawn handlers - cheapest possible :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 05, 2018, 06:23:08 PM
Got my Middle Earth rulebooks today, along with some One Ring and Rohan dice.

Production values excellent, nice bookmark in the binding, and the rules cleanup is nicely done from what I can read at a glance.

Looks like Middle Earth is back on the menu, boys!

Back to painting my Rohirrim.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 05, 2018, 10:18:42 PM
That Pelennor Fields box might be my first GW purchase in.... well, forgot when I did the last one, it's been quite a while... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on September 06, 2018, 11:06:22 AM
Quote from: Argonor on September 05, 2018, 10:18:42 PM
That Pelennor Fields box might be my first GW purchase in.... well, forgot when I did the last one, it's been quite a while... ::)
It'll be 11yrs for me...so I guess not since LotR was killed off by the community
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on September 07, 2018, 01:50:55 PM
This is probably going to be my only purchase for a while. https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/PeachysPDF.pdf
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on September 08, 2018, 02:05:29 PM
Rogue Trader is £80. That is less painful than I thought it might be! :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 09, 2018, 01:40:49 AM
Actually spent some money on a LOTR figure today when I found a mounted Eowyn/on foot metal blister. No finecast will tarnish my table! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on September 09, 2018, 10:06:11 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on September 08, 2018, 02:05:29 PM
Rogue Trader is £80. That is less painful than I thought it might be! :)

Is Rogue Trader an independent game/spinoff, or is a campaign set for Killteam?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 09, 2018, 11:42:27 AM
Quote from: Verderer on September 09, 2018, 10:06:11 AM
Is Rogue Trader an independent game/spinoff, or is a campaign set for Killteam?

Expansion, Kill Team is required to play, though you do get 40K rules for the two new factions, if you care about that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on September 09, 2018, 02:01:17 PM
ok, thanks Flip. RT is definitely on my radar
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 09, 2018, 02:30:38 PM
Yeah, at £80, I thought it was a tad expensive considering it's not a stand alone game and requires another £20 or whatever for the core book.

At discounted rate it's not too bad I suppose.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 09, 2018, 03:19:51 PM
Whoa...I thought you got the Kill Team rules with the RT box. That seems a little cheeky.

Oh well, I wasn't interested in those minis anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 09, 2018, 06:16:58 PM
It is suxy. I dont plan to play it but they should be there instead of these quick start rules...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on September 10, 2018, 10:54:15 AM
I am ok with that, provided the minis are good & it's a good value for the price otherwise.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 10, 2018, 11:55:52 AM
Minis are great (I am buying it for the minis alone - both teams are great) but value is not that good in comparison with Kill team starter terrain sprues.


 GW would probably want 30+ pounds for each team minimum separately and it have two sprues of Ready-for-Necromunda terrain and decor.
But that pale in comparison to 50+% off in the original set.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 10, 2018, 12:13:57 PM
I was looking through the new WD earlier and I started wondering if GW will do smaller starter sets for MESBG? I've not interest in painting large armies like Pelennor Fields but a couple of smaller skirmish forces might be fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on September 10, 2018, 01:31:50 PM
Getting rather tempted to jump in on the new Middle Earth game honestly as it's quite nostalgic for me.

I was GW Staff when the Fellowship of the Ring game came out and had painted a few of the sets for the Watford store so I'm thinking about grabbing some now and seeing how badly my painting has changed in the last 15 or more years lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on September 11, 2018, 04:36:27 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on September 10, 2018, 12:13:57 PM
I was looking through the new WD earlier and I started wondering if GW will do smaller starter sets for MESBG? I've not interest in painting large armies like Pelennor Fields but a couple of smaller skirmish forces might be fun.
You mean like the getting started boxes they have for their other games? The main limitation is that those sets only contain plastics, a playable army requires characters to lead it, and there are very few plastic character miniatures in the range (just a handful of named ones and some boxes have the option to build captains). Although there will be more plastic characters in the future apparently. Of course, a small starter for this game just means one or two boxes of troops really - a box of 24 warriors and one of 6 cavalry gives you a very playable force. One more box and you've got a fully fledged army in many cases.

If by skirmish you mean a dozen figures a side, the Battle Companies system may be of interest - it's SBG's version of Mordheim, using the standard rules and profiles for the game, with a campaign/experience system added on. Single sprue of most warrior types will get you a starting warband (with spares); add a single blister of each of the faction elites and you're set for a full campaign.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 11, 2018, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Chico on September 10, 2018, 01:31:50 PM
I was GW Staff when the Fellowship of the Ring game came out and had painted a few of the sets for the Watford store so I'm thinking about grabbing some now and seeing how badly my painting has changed in the last 15 or more years lol.

I remember entering a painting contest at the Cardiff GW store about 15 years ago - before I started painting for money. I painted the Boromir with the horn model and handed it in for the contest. When I went to collect it, the staff looked all embarrassed and said they'd entered it into the kids competition by mistake … in consolation they said it won easily. I felt very odd about that whole experience. I forget what the prize was, a crappy Warhammer novel I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 11, 2018, 07:07:24 PM
Quote from: Cubs on September 11, 2018, 05:22:18 PM
I remember entering a painting contest at the Cardiff GW store about 15 years ago - before I started painting for money. I painted the Boromir with the horn model and handed it in for the contest. When I went to collect it, the staff looked all embarrassed and said they'd entered it into the kids competition by mistake … in consolation they said it won easily. I felt very odd about that whole experience. I forget what the prize was, a crappy Warhammer novel I think.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmyEYTiUUAQ5t4C.jpg:small)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 11, 2018, 07:12:13 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on September 11, 2018, 04:36:27 PM
You mean like the getting started boxes they have for their other games? The main limitation is that those sets only contain plastics, a playable army requires characters to lead it, and there are very few plastic character miniatures in the range (just a handful of named ones and some boxes have the option to build captains). Although there will be more plastic characters in the future apparently. Of course, a small starter for this game just means one or two boxes of troops really - a box of 24 warriors and one of 6 cavalry gives you a very playable force. One more box and you've got a fully fledged army in many cases.

If by skirmish you mean a dozen figures a side, the Battle Companies system may be of interest - it's SBG's version of Mordheim, using the standard rules and profiles for the game, with a campaign/experience system added on. Single sprue of most warrior types will get you a starting warband (with spares); add a single blister of each of the faction elites and you're set for a full campaign.

Ahh that's true. Thanks, I will check it out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 12, 2018, 01:48:52 AM
Quote from: Cubs on September 11, 2018, 05:22:18 PM
I remember entering a painting contest at the Cardiff GW store about 15 years ago - before I started painting for money. I painted the Boromir with the horn model and handed it in for the contest. When I went to collect it, the staff looked all embarrassed and said they'd entered it into the kids competition by mistake … in consolation they said it won easily. I felt very odd about that whole experience. I forget what the prize was, a crappy Warhammer novel I think.

That’s the spirit! Attaboy!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on September 12, 2018, 09:35:10 AM
Ah yes, GW sponsored rewards: this must have been something like 20 years or more ago, but I came third in a local painting competetion, it was a big event for local one, and they had distinguished GW reps all the way from Britain promoting WH40k or WFB. Might have been the year they had Andy Chambers talking about the new 40k or something.

Anyways, the price I got was: 1) GW diploma for 'pretty good painting' 2) one (!) miniature painted by someone of the GW studio Crew and 3) one 40k pin which was missing the lock thingy....

needless to say I was a tad underwhelmed. Those GW folks did look a bit embarrassed when they handed out the prizes, maybe they had lost their luggage or something? At least they weren't handing hotel towels and soaps... lol

It's entirely possible they didn't realise how big the event actually was, I mean it was in Finland up there in the Chaos wastes. Only the biggest con in the Nordic countries at least way bakc then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on September 13, 2018, 07:47:39 AM
Oh, I went to a local game shop to buy some paints (another local hobby shop closed down for good this summer, and so went my source of Vallejo paints, among other things... :-[ ) And on impulse, I bought a box of Poxwalkers, and Orc BB team. I say, this is pretty good kit, you have 12 orc players, a bunch of tokens, and a set of transfers, all under 20 euros? Doesn't sound too bad.

I still got my old dwarf team for BB, so maybe I can entize one of my mates for a game of BB, they've never played it, poor buggers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on September 13, 2018, 12:33:48 PM
Quote from: Verderer on September 13, 2018, 07:47:39 AM
I still got my old dwarf team for BB, so maybe I can entize one of my mates for a game of BB, they've never played it, poor buggers.

That's shocking! BB is a great game, for me it's a rare example of GW making a game that actually still holds up really well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on September 13, 2018, 09:38:00 PM
My current gaming friends are almost solely into boardgames and RPGs, I don't think any of them have played miniature games in 15 years or more? But I have cunning plans to draw them into miniatures...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 14, 2018, 10:38:27 PM
Quote from: Verderer on September 13, 2018, 07:47:39 AM
. I say, this is pretty good kit, you have 12 orc players, a bunch of tokens, and a set of transfers, all under 20 euros? Doesn't sound too bad.


Its great. Only minus is number of positional players (you are getting only 2 Black orcs and 2 Blitzers and you want 4 of both.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on September 15, 2018, 12:38:31 AM
Quote from: AWu on September 14, 2018, 10:38:27 PM
Its great. Only minus is number of positional players (you are getting only 2 Black orcs and 2 Blitzers and you want 4 of both.

True that, you would eventually need a another orc box, or even the boxed BB basic set to have all the positionals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on September 17, 2018, 05:34:34 PM
I received my copy of Rogue Trader today - in Malta - that was really fast!
Useful (hopefully) point of information: although it's an expansion, the set includes the core rules in a pamphlet 8 pages (of rather small print!) long. I haven't checked, but I'd guess it's playable alone using these. There's the Rogue Trader rule book, with new rules and scenarios and rules for the two opposing teams; and as I think has been mentioned, a couple of small codexes (codices?) to use the teams in 40K.
Unusual box for GW, opening sideways, with the bottom half fully enclosed inside the outer box - very rigid.
Also unusual for GW, but not for Kill Team, the Nurgle guys are in green, the Rogue Traders in red; the equipment, doors etc in grey. Unusually - no dice! But you get the boards for the gaming surface and assorted cards and counters. Total of 33 models, with a variety of small Nurgle beasties.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 17, 2018, 05:39:52 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on September 17, 2018, 05:34:34 PM
Unusually - no dice! But you get the boards for the gaming surface and assorted cards and counters. Total of 33 models, with a variety of small Nurgle beasties.
There are two variants, one with dice, one without - for another £8.00 you could have got the dice  ;D - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rogue-Trader-Collection-2018-eng)

I assume you can buy the dice separately...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on September 17, 2018, 06:21:08 PM
Quote from: zemjw on September 17, 2018, 05:39:52 PM
There are two variants, one with dice, one without - for another £8.00 you could have got the dice  ;D - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rogue-Trader-Collection-2018-eng)

I assume you can buy the dice separately...
Oh yes, I'd forgotten about that - you're right. I had no need for more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 17, 2018, 09:40:49 PM
To be honest GW dice lately are on fire. They are great.

But Kill team dice are bit underwhelming...
I consider Deathwatch one for great deathwatch I logo but rest is just boring in comparison to epic nurgle festering dice!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on September 18, 2018, 05:13:50 PM
Heya folks - anyone got the new Adeptus Titanicus buildings in hand? Do they work for 6mm? I hear people say that the new scale is '8mm', but the knights I bought seem to fit fine with my 6mm stuff. It'd be ace if the buildings did!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 18, 2018, 10:55:19 PM
Quote from: Jagannath on September 18, 2018, 05:13:50 PM
Heya folks - anyone got the new Adeptus Titanicus buildings in hand? Do they work for 6mm? I hear people say that the new scale is '8mm', but the knights I bought seem to fit fine with my 6mm stuff. It'd be ace if the buildings did!!

I’ve seen them at the local store, and think they’d be fine for 6mm. I almost bought the buildings, don’t care about the rest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tjgreenway on September 20, 2018, 11:54:58 AM
Quote from: Vanvlak on September 17, 2018, 05:34:34 PM
I received my copy of Rogue Trader today - in Malta - that was really fast!
Useful (hopefully) point of information: although it's an expansion, the set includes the core rules in a pamphlet 8 pages (of rather small print!) long. I haven't checked, but I'd guess it's playable alone using these. There's the Rogue Trader rule book, with new rules and scenarios and rules for the two opposing teams; and as I think has been mentioned, a couple of small codexes (codices?) to use the teams in 40K.
Unusual box for GW, opening sideways, with the bottom half fully enclosed inside the outer box - very rigid.
Also unusual for GW, but not for Kill Team, the Nurgle guys are in green, the Rogue Traders in red; the equipment, doors etc in grey. Unusually - no dice! But you get the boards for the gaming surface and assorted cards and counters. Total of 33 models, with a variety of small Nurgle beasties.

Quick word of caution : the core rules included are for 40K, not Kill Team, they're the same sheet that comes in all the box sets. You definitely still need the Kill Team rule book to play Rogue Trader.

My set arrived today - the miniatures look great in the flesh so far, they've skipped pretty close to the front of the assembly queue, very much looking forward to painting the Starstriders half (although I hate that name!)   :D  For what it is, I'm very happy with the contents and definitely looking forward to playing through the narrative missions included with the wife. Definitely feel that it's a bit of a missed opportunity to bring in rules for custom Rogue Traders and their retinues, but it's a solid boxset regardless and there's always Inquisitor and Inquisimunda for those of us who like to tinker a bit more!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on September 20, 2018, 03:25:08 PM
Quote
Quick word of caution : the core rules included are for 40K, not Kill Team, they're the same sheet that comes in all the box sets. You definitely still need the Kill Team rule book to play Rogue Trader.
Oops - apologies if that was misleading - I had assumed it was for KT and haven't looked at it at all other than to notice is was a core rule set - hope I haven't misled anyone  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pendrake on September 21, 2018, 06:13:30 AM
Is anyone other than myself bothered by the brightly colored plastic that various GW figure kits are being shipped in? Things of Khorne in USA firetruck Red Blood Red, Ultramarines In Blue...[?]...

I got a tiny box of SCE Somethingorothers and discovered they were cast in a bronzey gold brown.  I got the box for the hound creature.

I really dig Gryphhounds.

So I have a gold hound. ::)   And a gold base to stick him on.  :(   Too bad I like black-edged bases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on September 21, 2018, 06:43:34 AM
Well, here's your time to start painting them. :D Or at least prime them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pendrake on September 21, 2018, 08:59:18 AM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on September 21, 2018, 06:43:34 AM
Well, here's your time to start painting them. :D Or at least prime them.
Sometimes it is a plus. They chose Purple for a big-purple-ball-of-death spell, FREX. The Gold is OK for stormcast Sigmarines (If you want to go with the canon color scheme) but can be a minus for someone that wanted to do something different.

Other color choices of theirs...  ;D  :o  ???  o_o  :-[ ...<— inspire a gamut of dissapointed reactions. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on September 21, 2018, 01:04:15 PM
Are those colours for plug & play starter sets only or is everything to be released now in bright coloured plastic?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cait Sidhe on September 21, 2018, 01:06:27 PM
Quote from: Pendrake on September 21, 2018, 08:59:18 AM
Sometimes it is a plus. They chose Purple for a big-purple-ball-of-death spell, FREX. The Gold is OK for stormcast Sigmarines (If you want to go with the canon color scheme) but can be a minus for someone that wanted to do something different.

Other color choices of theirs...  ;D  :o  ???  o_o  :-[ ...<— inspire a gamut of dissapointed reactions.

I'm really confused, are you just not painting your minis? I mean if that's the case how is solid grey for everything any better?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 21, 2018, 01:15:13 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on September 21, 2018, 01:04:15 PM
Are those colours for plug & play starter sets only or is everything to be released now in bright coloured plastic?

The colour plastic is just for the starter sets and easy build kits...everything else is grey plastic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 21, 2018, 01:31:32 PM
+Every Shadespire warband is colored plastic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 21, 2018, 04:57:36 PM
Shadespire is a boardgame though, so it is totally understandable as to why they went with colours for that, not everyone will be wanting to paint them.

Personally, I don't see the issue. Unless the issue is about making the games more accessable to people who perhaps aren't as keen on the painting / modeling side of things - or who are perhaps new to it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 21, 2018, 10:27:09 PM
Coloured plastic doesn't bother me either. Although I like to use painted minis my son and I just opened up a 40k starter set and he was dead keen on playing. The colours made it easier and look better than playing with grey vs grey. Must paint them though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 22, 2018, 12:37:39 AM
I like colored (apart from the bases - its difficult to remove for once colored halo at the bottom of the base) but  red plastic in Rogue trader seamed softer than usual GW
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pendrake on September 22, 2018, 04:53:21 AM
Quote from: Cait Sidhe on September 21, 2018, 01:06:27 PM
I'm really confused, are you just not painting your minis? I mean if that's the case how is solid grey for everything any better?
I have been known to paint a miniature. Or two.

Grey is better because it’s neutral. Having the sprue bright Red is super helpful if the models are Khorne daemons (like being primed already)  but bright Red for humans that are kinda pale faced pasty complexions with lots of black Armor ...the material color fights the primer.

For some things the colors work; others not. (The base of that purple spell needed to be ground brown or black but it was purple.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on September 22, 2018, 08:16:24 AM
Didn't mind my Shadespire Skaven (bought for Mordheim) being a dark brown plastic, but I wouldn't be too keen on anything in gold for example, just in case any paint rubs off (edge of bases or cloaks for example). Not a great look.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on September 22, 2018, 01:08:28 PM
Quote from: Pendrake on September 21, 2018, 06:13:30 AM
So I have a gold hound. ::)   And a gold base to stick him on.  :(   Too bad I like black-edged bases.

Well, I always prime minis after gluing them to the base... Point of comment: You could just paint the edge black..?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 23, 2018, 02:33:07 AM
I airbrush prime all my minis, and often use coloured primer depending on what I’m doing anyway. The original model colour is irrelevant.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 27, 2018, 09:29:30 AM
Being out of GW games for a while now I'm learning the new changes to 40k. One question I have is about charging. It used to be easy with the whole, Double the Move rule but now I find it strange with things with a high move such as a Lictor 9" still has the same charge as a slower creature like a pox walker move 5" how does this work?
Also the consolidate rule has me scratching my head a little as well. If you don't reach with your charge are you allowed the 3" consolidate or not? Newbie questions here :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on September 27, 2018, 04:45:00 PM
Quote from: beefcake on September 27, 2018, 09:29:30 AM
Being out of GW games for a while now I'm learning the new changes to 40k. One question I have is about charging. It used to be easy with the whole, Double the Move rule but now I find it strange with things with a high move such as a Lictor 9" still has the same charge as a slower creature like a pox walker move 5" how does this work?
Also the consolidate rule has me scratching my head a little as well. If you don't reach with your charge are you allowed the 3" consolidate or not? Newbie questions here :)

Now the move stats aren't involved, you just roll the 2D6 to Charge.

If you don't roll the necessary distance for the charge, there's no Charge. The consolidate moviment only works after the Fight (Close Combat) phase is resolved. And to get into the Fight, you need to Charge. So - no Charge, no Fight, no consolidate.

At least that's my understanding of the rules. I can be wrong, I only have like 6 games of 8th edition.  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on September 27, 2018, 06:01:52 PM
Quote from: Predatorpt on September 27, 2018, 04:45:00 PM

At least that's my understanding of the rules.
Sounds right to me.
Charging occurs after and in addition to movement. So a fast creature like a Lictor gets to move 9" and then, after pausing for the shooting phase, charge 2D6.
An Ork only moves 5", pauses, then charges.
So effectively a Lictor "charge move" is 2d6 +9 and an Orks is 2d6+5
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 27, 2018, 09:07:46 PM
Okay. I thought that charging occurred in the movement phase. That is quite a large gap that can be filled in one turn.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 28, 2018, 12:02:22 AM
That looks as good an explanation of the new charge rules as any.

The one thing I will say as a 'nid player. Combat isn't anywhere near as 'safe' as it once used to be. Using a tooth and claw focused 'nid swarm army isn't guaranteed to work and is in fact a lot harder to pull off these days. Mainly because of two things:

- Reaction Fire: Every unit gets reaction fire, and not just once per turn. So you can't burn that unit of three termagants to trigger reaction fire. If they are wiped out, the unit can reaction fire against the next charging unit. The super bane of this are units with flame throwers. Especially the Thousand Son's unit which I cannot remember the name of which effectively becomes nigh on impossible to get into combat with. :o
- Fall Back: Units can fall back without suffering any damage/hits for doing so and can shoot at you. So, that unit you just took heavy casualties to get into combat with? Yeah, that one! It can fall back in it's turn and blast away at whatever you have left. Obviously marines tend to make this a rather deadly affair. :'(

So use guns. I have found a new love for termagants even if I need a dumper truck to roll the dice . . . . .  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on September 28, 2018, 12:28:45 AM
So 40k remains as gamey and greasy as ever?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 28, 2018, 03:24:56 AM
That's a shame. I like my slicy Tyranids. I may just follow through with the theme of it anyway. I have plenty of termagants and shooty warriors anyway so they are always an option. I'm really only using this for kill team.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 28, 2018, 04:19:58 AM
I'm wondering if the kill team rules are different. They state that you can make a charge instead of a normal move. Also any reaction fire, overwatch as they call it, is a 6 to hit regardless of BS or modifiers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on September 28, 2018, 07:31:49 AM
Quote from: grant on September 28, 2018, 12:28:45 AM
So 40k remains as gamey and greasy as ever?
They're just game mechanics. Gamey-ness and greasy-ness would be the choice of the players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on September 28, 2018, 07:34:30 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 28, 2018, 04:19:58 AM
I'm wondering if the kill team rules are different. They state that you can make a charge instead of a normal move. Also any reaction fire, overwatch as they call it, is a 6 to hit regardless of BS or modifiers.
Not played KT so I don't know about movement. But the 6s thing is common to both. However flamers don't roll to hit, so they hit chargers automatically
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on September 28, 2018, 01:49:02 PM
Quote from: TWD on September 28, 2018, 07:31:49 AM
They're just game mechanics. Gamey-ness and geasy-ness would be the choice of the players.

Exactly. People who want to play that kind of "game" are usually tournament players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on September 29, 2018, 01:39:39 AM
Wait, wait, hold the vox...

People play 40K for fun?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on September 29, 2018, 08:44:23 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on September 29, 2018, 01:39:39 AM
Wait, wait, hold the vox...

People play 40K for fun?

Yes.
Next question.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on September 29, 2018, 01:37:31 PM
Quote from: TWD on September 29, 2018, 08:44:23 AM
Yes.
Next question.

Why do the Eldar, an ancient race facing slow extinction yet wise beyond human understanding, give Guardians, their citizen militia who are generally meant to stay at a safe-ish distance from the battle and provide covering fire for the Aspect Warriors, guns with range so pathetic that the pistols of other races laugh about it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on September 29, 2018, 01:44:27 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on September 29, 2018, 01:37:31 PM
Why do the Eldar, an ancient race facing slow extinction yet wise beyond human understanding, give Guardians, their citizen militia who are generally meant to stay at a safe-ish distance from the battle and provide covering fire for the Aspect Warriors, guns with range so pathetic that the pistols of other races laugh about it?

Farseers did it.

That's enough questions
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on September 29, 2018, 01:46:06 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on September 29, 2018, 01:37:31 PM
Why do the Eldar, an ancient race facing slow extinction yet wise beyond human understanding, give Guardians, their citizen militia who are generally meant to stay at a safe-ish distance from the battle and provide covering fire for the Aspect Warriors, guns with range so pathetic that the pistols of other races laugh about it?

They became the Tau :o

Honestly though, i agree completely at least 24 inches was ok but 12". Just to be clear thats shuriken catapults i am talking about lol

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 29, 2018, 03:31:01 PM
Dying race fielding citizen militia instead of undeadish constructs or robots bother me from the first time I meet eldar in WD 127.
I was drawn to them because of Jess Goodwin beautiful sculpts but the incompatibility of fluff and game play was strange...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on September 29, 2018, 06:06:08 PM
As someone who mostly played 2nd ed Space Marine (Epic scale - couldn't stand 40k rules in comparison), the Eldar made more sense. The Eldar army in Space Marine had man-for-man the best elite units (e.g. no other troop stand could reliably beat a Striking Scorpion or Exarch stand in c/c), but you could never field those units in numbers. You needed Guardians to bulk out your force in any sizeable game (and they were really crap, though at least had 50cm range and usually came with Falcons).

It gave you a sense of the dying race thing: exceptional elites/weaponry, but because the race was dying they could never field their good stuff in sufficient numbers. The citizens were thrown in to fight too, because everyone had to - no one could be left at home in large battles.

That said, when the Eldar won it was never the Guardians who carried the day. You set them up defending artillery/tanks, while your Scorpions, Exarchs, Wave Serpents, and Titans did all the killing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on September 29, 2018, 08:33:37 PM

Quote from: TWD on September 29, 2018, 01:44:27 PM
Farseers did it.

That's enough questions

Always knew there was something about them.


Quote from: Storm Wolf on September 29, 2018, 01:46:06 PM
They became the Tau :o

Honestly though, i agree completely at least 24 inches was ok but 12". Just to be clear thats shuriken catapults i am talking about lol

Glen

Yup, shuriken catapults.  :D
Lasblasters would've worked out wayyyyy better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 30, 2018, 01:38:13 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on September 29, 2018, 06:06:08 PM
As someone who mostly played 2nd ed Space Marine (Epic scale - couldn't stand 40k rules in comparison), the Eldar made more sense. The Eldar army in Space Marine had man-for-man the best elite units (e.g. no other troop stand could reliably beat a Striking Scorpion or Exarch stand in c/c), but you could never field those units in numbers. You needed Guardians to bulk out your force in any sizeable game (and they were really crap, though at least had 50cm range and usually came with Falcons).

It gave you a sense of the dying race thing: exceptional elites/weaponry, but because the race was dying they could never field their good stuff in sufficient numbers. The citizens were thrown in to fight too, because everyone had to - no one could be left at home in large battles.

That said, when the Eldar won it was never the Guardians who carried the day. You set them up defending artillery/tanks, while your Scorpions, Exarchs, Wave Serpents, and Titans did all the killing.

In Epic Armageddon you can use sensible army without guardians at all
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on September 30, 2018, 03:18:27 PM
Quote from: AWu on September 30, 2018, 01:38:13 PM
In Epic Armageddon you can use sensible army without guardians at all

One more reason why 2nd ed Space Marine was the best Epic game  ;)
(Until Titan Legions and the 'Nids expansion ruined it completely).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 30, 2018, 05:04:00 PM
That was my entry point into GW gaming, but Armageddon is just superior set of rules :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on September 30, 2018, 06:01:50 PM
Quote from: AWu on September 30, 2018, 05:04:00 PM
That was my entry point into GW gaming, but Armageddon is just superior set of rules :P

Yeah, I would agree on the rules front actually. Still prefer Space Marine 2nd though, thanks to the way all six original armies are so well balanced. Plus I just like army cards and order tokens. My entry point into GW gaming too, after Space Crusade.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 30, 2018, 11:11:11 PM
I am not counting The Talisman because polish edition lacked miniatures :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 02, 2018, 12:05:15 AM
Cool video in itself but Fiend is amazing   :o
And they went into number of boobs not size  :-* :-* :-*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWjDuD50AZY
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 02, 2018, 09:09:47 PM
Oh that's too good.  lol lol lol

Also, that looks like a neat and nightmarish direction for the Slaanesh to go in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on October 02, 2018, 09:18:06 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on September 30, 2018, 06:01:50 PM
Yeah, I would agree on the rules front actually. Still prefer Space Marine 2nd though, thanks to the way all six original armies are so well balanced. Plus I just like army cards and order tokens. My entry point into GW gaming too, after Space Crusade.

1000x this
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 02, 2018, 09:31:33 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on October 02, 2018, 09:09:47 PM
Oh that's too good.  lol lol lol

Also, that looks like a neat and nightmarish direction for the Slaanesh to go in.

Does look good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 02, 2018, 10:46:16 PM
And have you seen this ? Might be best part of the Orktober :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9_rqvdJplo&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on October 03, 2018, 09:41:40 AM
Bewtiful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 03, 2018, 03:28:23 PM
At least GW seem to have a sense of humour now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 03, 2018, 07:48:39 PM
Showing Kirby the door arguably turned out to the best decision GW ever made.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on October 03, 2018, 10:11:25 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on September 29, 2018, 01:39:39 AM
Wait, wait, hold the vox...

People play 40K for fun?
I did try once...it didn't go too well.
I even tried again recently with 8th...it went worse
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 03, 2018, 10:45:10 PM
Back in 2nd edition it was fun and colourful and silly. Those days are long gone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 03, 2018, 11:06:09 PM
Colourful yes, but that's down to how you narrate your games as much as anything else. Silly - very. Strategy cards that could wipe out the majority of your opponents force before you'd started a game. It had it's pro's and con's that's for sure.

My first edition of 40k was 2nd ed. I loved it. I also hated it. It was an easily abused system, like fantasy at the time.

ALL games rely upon the players for it to be fun. Very few games are instantly fun.

Last edition I played before the latest was very early 4th. I am enjoying games of 8th as much as I did 2nd. Mainly because of the opposition. They are good friends, we spend as much time procrastinating, joking, laughing as we do rolling dice and moving models. It's fun. We laugh at each other's 1's when we need 6's.

We're not uber competitive, we collect the models we like, build armies around them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 04, 2018, 03:30:12 AM
Quote from: AWu on October 02, 2018, 12:05:15 AM
Cool video in itself but Fiend is amazing   :o
And they went into number of boobs not size  :-* :-* :-*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWjDuD50AZY

Ha, I was watching that very sprue sell on ebay last week - went for £114 I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on October 06, 2018, 08:56:15 PM
Quote from: AWu on October 02, 2018, 10:46:16 PM
And have you seen this ? Might be best part of the Orktober :P

Seriously, that's too good  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 06, 2018, 09:59:02 PM
Two miniatures are being released as exclusive releases celebrating the opening of the 200th store.

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/500StoresMinis-06Oct-PrimarisLieutenant2aw.jpg)
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/500StoresMinis-06Oct-Garkorr1mn.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jambo1 on October 07, 2018, 03:06:59 PM
Space Marine looks a lovely figure. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 07, 2018, 03:40:40 PM
I think these two minis are the first limited edition minis I actually like so its a shame I won't be picking them up as I am unlikely to be near a GW that day...or lets be honest foot the almost certainly large price tag.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 09, 2018, 10:01:02 PM
Is it just me, or did this thread somehow just get shorter?
I'm sure we were on page 197 before.

Also - that LE Primaris is *very* nice!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on October 10, 2018, 03:54:32 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on October 09, 2018, 10:01:02 PM
Is it just me, or did this thread somehow just get shorter?
I'm sure we were on page 197 before.

Also - that LE Primaris is *very* nice!

It's currently on page 596 for me. Do you have your max posts per thread page count set higher than normal?  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on October 10, 2018, 10:00:43 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on October 09, 2018, 10:01:02 PM
Is it just me, or did this thread somehow just get shorter?
I'm sure we were on page 197 before.

Also - that LE Primaris is *very* nice!
I thought it was 597 last time i looked.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 10, 2018, 10:47:31 PM
Yeah sorry, meant 597 last time I looked. Then it was back to 596. Anyway, was just idle speculation.

Anyhoo, much as I like that LE Primaris, I now can't shake the thought that he's going 10-pin bowling. It is almost certainly just the angle, but from this angle he needed to be holding something else in his left hand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on October 14, 2018, 10:13:24 AM
Well, I purchased Rogue Trader and Fangs of Ulrich box (because it has the alchomite stacks)... welcome to my 'lead' pile. lol

Might get me some other terrain sets, these are rather nice. Maybe the industrial pipes? Have to dig up my old Necromunda bulkheads too, maybe I can figure out a use for them?

Collecting a Nurgle army seems very easy, they seem very prominent in the recent releases?



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 14, 2018, 02:41:53 PM
Deathguard are bloody good. There are some really nice minis out there for them as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 14, 2018, 07:29:54 PM
Yeah.. Nurgle is my least favorite chaos power but latest releases are so good that I broke and painted* some models. They are pleasure to work with..


* I wouldn't buy them stand alone but got Dark Imperium starter and small starter for Primaris and poxwalkers so i have them lying aropundand just tempting..:)

We might see some Orks in Orktober. Next Saturday pre order starts  for Speed Freeks game so it will be released at 27th :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 15, 2018, 05:28:53 AM
I make good money, but GW are out of my price range now. I don’t know how I could buy them over food...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on October 15, 2018, 05:49:12 AM
Yeah, cheap they arent.

Dark Imperium something I have been keeping my eye on. One might get a good deal from some retailer by now... and sell most of the Marines to get some money back, and keeping the filthy ones! :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 15, 2018, 11:52:32 AM
Heh.. Marines are beauties though :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 15, 2018, 09:05:00 PM
Reality is, GW have been expensive wargaming wise for 20+ years. If you look at inflation, they're not far off in line with it. According to the Bank of England £10 in 1990 is the equivelent to £22ish of todays money.

Now, they have also moved over to more expensive manufacturing processes due to demand. That aside, I think you'd be hard pushed to find the quality of miniature and printed rulebook for the cost of their starter boxes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 16, 2018, 08:44:05 PM
Starters are tasty...
And lets not forget that they started to do bulk offer with reduced price with their Start collecting boxes. They are quite Ok moneywise.

GW ,models are expensive but unless you want large hordes of them or some that are ridiculous priced like knights (and even they were sold in starter set deal with large discounts) its not that ban taking into consideration we are playing with expensive toy soldiers :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MeridarchGekkota on October 16, 2018, 09:11:25 PM
The biggest problem with GW is that I really don't have the time to paint up that many miniatures to an acceptable standard. Kill Team is really good though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on October 17, 2018, 08:15:32 PM
The problem with GW pricing is the wild inconsistency and gouging. Take Blood Bowl. Appalling release schedule, lack of options for building teams (seriously, work out how to build 16 player squads) and the prices are ludicrous for the FW stuff. It's £20 for 12 plastic goblins, £10 for four plastic goblins and £20 for 3 resin ones. An ogre, of which a human team can only take one, is £12. A troll, of which most goblin teams would take two, is £15. It's transparent and blatant.

The usual daft arguments about splitting orders with friends and converting shouldn't come into it. Fine if you like to do these things but this is GW's game so they should try being more customer friendly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 17, 2018, 09:59:03 PM
I think we can all agree that GW is the most expensive on the market.

Inflation, shareholders, elephants being harmed - none of these are mundane to the mere fact that GW prices itself at the top of the market.

And that means I’m pretty much priced out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 18, 2018, 04:31:42 PM
Yup, but I always think it's a bit of a non-starter tbh.

It's the same with every industry in the world. There is always a company that prices itself at the top, usually based upon quality of the service and product provided.

For tech, the likes of Apple do it.

It's often a discussion with perceived rising costs of GW, but when I started wargaming in the early 90's, they were more expensive than the majority of comparatives.

GW are also not the only 'gougers' - but some of the stuff is expected, the prices for things that will sell less, especially in plastic, will be more. Even if there is similar amounts of material involved. There are definitely cases of it being more obvious though, but like I say, it's not just GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on October 18, 2018, 04:47:53 PM
Honestly Im not sure whether they are expensive, or that other companies are just cheap.

My dad started getting GW stock at his shop, interestingly he says the stuff that sells the most is Necromunda and Shadespire kit (though he wonders if it's because the local GW doesn't stock it as much).

He sells the models etc for 10% less than GW, and as an old employee of the shop I still get discount which makes the sets VERY reasonable. So I stocked up on a few things and I'll be honest it's taking me FOREVER to get some of these models to a reasonable gaming standard!!!

I still like the background though and really like a lot of the audio dramas etc, although some of it can get a little confused.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 18, 2018, 05:59:36 PM
Well, only thing I buy full price are exclusives to the shops or impulse buy paints when I am at mall GW shop is and I have time when wife is buying some wifey stuff.
All I am getting is at -25% and I am picky and try to find some stuff even cheaper if possible (There was extra promotion for Dark Imperium starter set for example and I bought mine at -35%)

It might be due to there being only one GW shop in Poland but we have large market on discounted GW products.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on October 18, 2018, 07:32:28 PM
Its toy soldiers, not oxygen.You don't need them. You don't have to pay the prices.
If it's too expensive for you, don't buy.
That's how luxury goods work.

Current GW business performance indicates they're not too expensive for an awful lot of people.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 18, 2018, 08:53:31 PM
Quote from: TWD on October 18, 2018, 07:32:28 PM
Its toy soldiers, ITS LIKE oxygen.

I corrected your obvious type  lol

On the serious point: I agree
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 18, 2018, 09:12:36 PM
It is all true, we make choices. I like bikes, and I’m sure my bike collection would cause heart attacks at the prices I’ve paid for some of my builds.

I guess that’s where my old GW money went  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 18, 2018, 09:36:32 PM
Quote from: TWD on October 18, 2018, 07:32:28 PM
If it's too expensive for you, don't buy.
That's how luxury goods work.

So very true. I like chopping up GW miniatures for my own imaginary corners of the 40k setting, and I also like Magic the Gathering - but I realised ages ago that you can't serve those two masters at once.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 18, 2018, 09:56:52 PM
Agree.. I am trying to sell my Karn lately to fund new Middle Earth.. I was shocked how it is worth now  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 18, 2018, 10:23:31 PM
You are definitely right, selling MtG to fund wargaming is the way to go. Only problem is you have to make a clean break, because you'll never be able to afford those cards again.  :-[ I haven't managed to part with things like Ancestral or Vault for that reason.

On topic: one's perception of how expensive luxury goods are depends on the comparison as TWD and others said earlier...  I always assumed Forgeworld only exists to make GW look cheap and reasonable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on October 19, 2018, 07:43:22 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on October 18, 2018, 10:23:31 PM
You are definitely right, selling MtG to fund wargaming is the way to go.

Can't agree with that - mtg is an investable and easily traded stock which on average has only made gains on gains.

If you pay attention to the market (at a couple of well known sites) it pays for itself. The downside of course is that does require your active awareness and that's a time sink, but I can testify one can do both.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 19, 2018, 09:06:43 AM
Oh sorry, I just wasn't clear enough! I completely agree (at least as long as the Reserved List is maintained).

All I meant was that it is too expensive (for me anyway) to pursue both, and that you'll get a lot more miniatures from selling your cards than you will cards from selling your miniatures.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 19, 2018, 06:17:06 PM
For my MTG was social activity. I sold most of my cards around 2000. But I am returning from time to time when friends will lure me with some kind of limited format.
I keep some decks to play with my wife from time to time but I like best for this purpose pre constructed duel decks.

My last worth something cards are from drafting. They normally sit idly in the box and are worthless but when I learned that that bugger went from 15 $ card to 80$ card I had to react :P

I treat both as a hobby not investment and miniatures just give me much more fun  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on October 19, 2018, 07:16:16 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on October 19, 2018, 09:06:43 AM
All I meant was that it is too expensive (for me anyway) to pursue both, and that you'll get a lot more miniatures from selling your cards than you will cards from selling your miniatures.

True enough. Money spent on miniatures is essentially lost - can't think of anything except a few ancient rarities that appreciates - whereas money spent on cards generally averages out by product and appreciates by singles. And you're quite right - by the same token buying back into minis can be done incrementally and for a low initial outlay whereas buying back in to cards means loans of some sort.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on October 19, 2018, 08:35:45 PM
Metal GW figures seem to sell quite well from what I've seen - easy to strip and certainly quite sought after. Mordheim and Dogs of War ranges defintely do well. Recently sold some figures from the Storm of Chaos era (Slayer Doomseekers, Malakai Makaison's Goblin Hewer) for 2-3 times I thought they'd go for. On the flipside, that also means I'll probably never expand my own small Dogs of War/Regiments of Renown collection, as the prices those go for on ebay are mad enough to make GW's most excessive retail prices look reasonable. Wonder if any of those will see the light again as Made to Order sets - that would result in an impulse buy that'd leave my bank account traumatised.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 19, 2018, 09:26:14 PM
CCG's are a different beast though. You build decks specifically so often you are hunting certain types of cards which means you might get valuable cards that are no use to you.

You know what you are getting with miniatures, typically the things that make money are limited edition or OOP. With the limited editions you have some idea that their value will increase, although not all, some lose desirability. OOP - you can't really guess it, it just depends, and even then, nothing is guaranteed. Some mini's don't seem to gain much in value over time as much as others.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 20, 2018, 08:49:13 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on October 19, 2018, 08:35:45 PM
Wonder if any of those will see the light again as Made to Order sets - that would result in an impulse buy that'd leave my bank account traumatised.

I for one am *really* looking forward to the day that GW starts expanding the not-giants-in-shiny-gold-armour human factions in AoS. Updated plastic kits of various olde worlde normal-sized humans, like the dogs of war, would be amazing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 20, 2018, 10:14:39 AM
Speedfreaks is up for pre order for £90 - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40000-Speed-Freeks-2018-eng

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on October 20, 2018, 12:46:07 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on October 19, 2018, 09:26:14 PM
CCG's are a different beast though. You build decks specifically so often you are hunting certain types of cards which means you might get valuable cards that are no use to you.

That's not at all how it works, because a). trading and selling is a thing (cf. cardmarket.com) is a thing, b). you're either buying the singles you need or you're buying high volumes and looking to trade out anyway - the only ones getting random stuff they can't use are younger players without the finance, local player group, or access to internet. That's a group that exists but is pretty small.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on October 20, 2018, 07:07:25 PM
Quote from: zemjw on October 20, 2018, 10:14:39 AM
Speedfreaks is up for pre order for £90 - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40000-Speed-Freeks-2018-eng
ANOTHER £90 set...is that the only number GW knows?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on October 20, 2018, 07:19:16 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on October 20, 2018, 07:07:25 PM
ANOTHER £90 set...is that the only number GW knows?

Just the standard price point for their boxed games I'd imagine?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 20, 2018, 07:38:33 PM
No. They also know 290. The price of it in NZ  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on October 20, 2018, 11:14:54 PM
Seems to work for them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on October 21, 2018, 10:11:26 AM
I suppose it's the sort of price that is typically seen as a good investment to get into a game, splitting the box with a friend, or painting it all yourself for demo games etc. Not sure if they are able to tell whether this is optimal based on their own sales numbers though (even GW doesn't exactly release enough similar products at slightly variable price points to tell what's best - indeed, they seem to simply have chosen this number and stuck with it for now), but it no doubt sells "well enough" if they continue using it.
Consistent pricing (if not in terms of the amount of product in a box, but simply the per-product price) also helps with customers' expectations.
Not sure how this one looks in terms of value for money - not cheap enough to start it with limited interest in the game, but at the same time not too expensive to be an obstacle if I was interested.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 21, 2018, 10:07:45 PM
Wasn't Rogue Trader 80 ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 22, 2018, 12:06:54 AM
Technically, Rogue Trader is an expansion/add on to Kill Team. Although KT is also £80.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on October 22, 2018, 04:38:56 AM
Quote from: beefcake on October 20, 2018, 07:38:33 PM
No. They also know 290. The price of it in NZ  ;D

 :-[

&@$% NZ pricing...

... and I mean that in the nicest possible way...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 22, 2018, 09:07:54 AM
Yeah, I usually buy off ebay since that usually gets around the hole hemisphere non-selling issue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 22, 2018, 07:24:06 PM
Quote from: beefcake on October 20, 2018, 07:38:33 PM
No. They also know 290. The price of it in NZ  ;D

Jesus. They’re really bonkers, aren’t they!

I didn’t even look at the Canada price - not much point.

I can get the Adeptus Titanicus box for $250 Canadian which is $100 off at a shop I know. I’m tempted for the terrain and the overall robot feel.

Something to think upon...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on October 24, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
Maybe a bit OT but I found this a bit funny  :)

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/nobody-getting-harassed-in-games-workshop-20171106138625 (https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/nobody-getting-harassed-in-games-workshop-20171106138625)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on October 25, 2018, 05:59:44 AM
Quote from: Hammers on October 24, 2018, 07:30:26 PM
Maybe a bit OT but I found this a bit funny  :)

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/nobody-getting-harassed-in-games-workshop-20171106138625 (https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/nobody-getting-harassed-in-games-workshop-20171106138625)

I thought it wad funny a d hits the mark like all good satire!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on October 29, 2018, 06:01:34 PM
First Blackstone preview is up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/29/29th-oct-the-hunt-for-the-blackstone-fortress-1-the-precipicegw-homepage-post-1/

Looking very nice indeed, here's hoping for a plastic astropath/psyker.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 29, 2018, 07:07:55 PM
I particularly like the way he floats above his base slightly ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on October 29, 2018, 07:40:04 PM
If he had blonde hair he would be the double of flashheart off blackadder  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on October 29, 2018, 07:55:43 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on October 29, 2018, 07:40:04 PM
If he had blonde hair he would be the double of flashheart off blackadder  lol

Clearly that demands a Bob then.

Much more Devlin Waugh though imho
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 29, 2018, 10:48:05 PM
Love him
I quite like RT model from Rogue Trader buy she is not oo Rogue tradish.. This guy should be in Rogue trader.

I wonder if they did not re purpose him and added the rushed gal  ???

She is cool model byt lack distinctiveness and character Rogue Trader have to had to qualify for the job

BTW I am getting some Dastardly vibes here
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RXKJolS9Atg/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on October 30, 2018, 09:25:32 AM
Yes, the perfect villain!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 30, 2018, 11:04:09 AM
Quote from: AWu on October 29, 2018, 10:48:05 PM
This guy should be in Rogue trader.

I wonder if they did not re purpose him and added the rushed gal  ???

She is cool model byt lack distinctiveness and character Rogue Trader have to had to qualify for the job

Haha, see I was having the opposite thought. The RT mini is pure Blanche from concept sketch onwards, and is therefore perfect for a Rogue Trader to me - JB has done more than anyone to craft an aesthetic for the non-military side of the Imperium. (Well, less-military side, as everyone is armed... you get what I mean, I hope). As far as I know that choice of mini was very deliberate, as JB did a lot of the concept work for that release. This guy looks a bit mundane to be a Rogue Trader to me.

The beauty of current 40k is that the Blanchitsu stuff exists alongside a whole bunch of other aesthetics, so there is room for two preferences as opposed as ours are  :)

I'll probably be buying him, but he'll need a bit of conversion work  ;) Actually with that trenchcoat he's a great potential delaque boss conversion base model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 30, 2018, 04:46:30 PM
I will agree that Blanchitsu style is strong with her but its only good thing to say here.
Blansche own models for characters are over the top with character and never bland. With this she failed to provide..
She is not like his old miniatures line unfortunately :(


Difference between them to be honest is visible face and cartoonish painting.

But thats an opinion duel  >:(   ;D lol
We can discuss with some truly epic paint jobs on her. Ive yet failed to see any wonders done to her.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 30, 2018, 07:08:25 PM
Another hero for BF

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45001858_10156759453048236_2394155924890583040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=a2488c28371503c1872ca19e507a83fc&oe=5C7FC460)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on October 30, 2018, 07:16:35 PM
This is increasingly feeling like what KT:RT should have been.

Looking fwd to a scenery reveal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 30, 2018, 08:21:25 PM
This is nice and I like that there will be a plastic Eldar Ranger too...just need the rest of the squad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 30, 2018, 08:23:55 PM
Man, that Kroot is fantastic!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on October 30, 2018, 10:57:39 PM
I've been thinking for a while that I should convert up a Kroot mercenary. Job done!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 31, 2018, 08:05:35 AM
I've actually wanted to do a Kroot Kill team. They would be quite fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 31, 2018, 09:07:33 AM
I built up a Tau mercenary squad earlier this year from Tau legs and old empire plastic torsos. I had a spare kroot head and arms, so added a kroot to the squad (possibly the only kroot in the galaxy wandering around in trousers (he's kinda shy) :D)

This figure will definitely be joining the squad when it's available :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 31, 2018, 07:20:14 PM
And we have another!

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/BlackstonePreview-Nov1-Content1jvfr.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 31, 2018, 07:40:43 PM
Thats cool...doesn't look Imperial...maybe its xenos.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on October 31, 2018, 07:58:50 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on October 31, 2018, 07:20:14 PM
And we have another!

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/BlackstonePreview-Nov1-Content1jvfr.jpg)

Its a Martian Fighting Machine!!!! How apt for Halloween lol

M`mm now I am thinking????
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on October 31, 2018, 08:05:48 PM
I'm really looking forward to this set.

Be interesting to see if it'll be a pre-cursor to a new faction just like the AOS version showed of the incoming Tzeentch forces.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 01, 2018, 05:06:24 AM
I hope its a new faction. Maybe something from the past that opposed the necrons?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 01, 2018, 08:42:22 AM
From the Warhammer Community post about this: "The Blackstone Fortress is more than just a backdrop to your adventures in Warhammer Quest, but a participant in them – and it will not hesitate to try and stop you. Here’s a look at one of its mechanical minions, a Spindle Drone".  ;)

So unlikely to be a new faction in the sense of a new army, but could be a new faction in the same way that Gellerpox is. But who knows? Your guess is as good as mine!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 01, 2018, 11:47:13 AM
I like Silver Tower and recently they turned me into 40K ( Necromunda that is, with Kill Team and Speed Freeks soon to follow ) so yes, this is a no-brainer over here. Seems I'm rapidly turning into a fanboy of theirs  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 01, 2018, 04:46:53 PM
Blackstone Fortress appeared as a model in Battlefleet Gothic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 01, 2018, 05:53:26 PM
Yeah, a bit disapointed about the fluff for the Spindle Drone, makes the Black Fortress sound like the ring in Halo and the floaty thing that I forget the name of.

Anyway, another day and another mini:

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/BlackstonePreview-Oct31-Negavolt1jvrh.jpg)

Quote
Negavolt Cultists express their heretical devotion by despoiling machinery and corrupting the function of sacred technologies through daemonic invocations and abstruse rituals. Such cults can often be found on planets controlled by the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 01, 2018, 06:10:31 PM
Ew. And not in a good kind of nurgle way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 01, 2018, 06:29:04 PM
I like him. But his weapons are meh.. He will be great base! This head is wonderful. His body armor is great too..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 01, 2018, 08:33:07 PM
Quote from: beefcake on November 01, 2018, 06:10:31 PM
Ew. And not in a good kind of nurgle way.

Agreed. He’s got the rectifier probes in hand that little gray aliens like.

Kind of an awful mini.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 01, 2018, 08:38:26 PM
I love the cultist, though as I acknowledged above JB's aesthetic isn't everyone's taste so ymmv. I heard somewhere that the Ironsleet blog has had some influence on the design studio, and this mini certainly could be an example of the influence - it's the most Blanche thing GW have released in a while.

Like the look of the cartoon cultists in the video. Hoping they're not Chaos - be nice just to have some unaligned human renegades for a change.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 01, 2018, 08:44:52 PM
Quote from: AWu on November 01, 2018, 06:29:04 PM
I like him. But his weapons are meh.. He will be great base! This head is wonderful. His body armor is great too..

Agreed, the techo gorgon head is pretty cool!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 02, 2018, 10:06:39 AM
Breaking the current trend Blackstone Fortress will cost 95 ł

Unfortunately leaked pic show only price and hexes :P
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KSy8AwQnp2U/W9wb31pSeII/AAAAAAABhaw/PTWcXBtl4pk9IEnhc6nWorLx9HiApSFVACLcBGAs/s1600/45271554_10156770948259522_3123773106435391488_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on November 02, 2018, 10:41:09 AM
I am always really tempted by all these new preview pictures. But then I see the prices and snap back to reality.

They are simply to expensive for me. Because I would only get to play this game once or twice. As a sideshow to my other hobby doings.

But them minis sure do look nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 02, 2018, 11:46:30 AM
To be honest. My fun with them is more of playing with miniatures, converting and painting than gaming with them :)
So Ive bought Rogue Trader with absolutely no intention to use it as a game.

Here will be the same, but there is a chance I will play he game :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 02, 2018, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: AWu on November 02, 2018, 10:06:39 AM
Breaking the current trend Blackstone Fortress will cost 95 ł

Unfortunately leaked pic show only price and hexes :P
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KSy8AwQnp2U/W9wb31pSeII/AAAAAAABhaw/PTWcXBtl4pk9IEnhc6nWorLx9HiApSFVACLcBGAs/s1600/45271554_10156770948259522_3123773106435391488_n.jpg)

Doesn't look like a lot of bang for your buck does it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 02, 2018, 02:36:13 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on November 02, 2018, 02:02:05 PM
Doesn't look like a lot of bang for your buck does it?

No it doesn’t. GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 02, 2018, 09:38:17 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/BloodGloryReveals-Nov2-Delaque13nf.jpg)

At last.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 02, 2018, 10:16:52 PM
Quote from: AWu on November 02, 2018, 09:38:17 PM

At last.

Fuck. Guess I'm giving GW a wad of cash soon. (Actually don't love all the minis as such, but the conversion potential of those gangers and the Blackstone stuff is amazing). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 02, 2018, 10:34:08 PM
They are releasing two books as well. No GW5 by the looks of it.

One book with all of the gang lists and rules in it and a new rulebook with, I assume, all of the 3d rules and campaign rules in it.

Suffice to say I am glad I chose to play Chaos Cultists due to suspecting this sneaky underhand tactic might be on the cards!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 02, 2018, 10:47:01 PM
Delaque look very nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 02, 2018, 10:51:36 PM
That was predictable. I guess two books similar to Middle Earth books.

Gang Wars were a mess.. Stop gap measure, but some people could feel pissed off.


I will buy new books gladly.  Ive been playingBig Book for 1st edition for the last 20 years so I will get the playtime from the new books. And Ive got already from Gang Wars.
What pisses me slightly is waste of resources with them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 02, 2018, 11:20:11 PM
Quote from: AWu on November 02, 2018, 09:38:17 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/BloodGloryReveals-Nov2-Delaque13nf.jpg)

At last.

Wow. Those are cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 02, 2018, 11:39:44 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on November 02, 2018, 02:02:05 PM
Doesn't look like a lot of bang for your buck does it?

There is a better pic on Warhammer Community now - looks like close to 40 miniatures in the box, if I am counting correctly. (I am a little drunk th noo, so may not be counting correctly).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 02, 2018, 11:42:08 PM
Not keen on the Delaque's to be honest but damn the BSF box looks amazing. Need me those Traitor Guard, Rogue Psyker and Beastmen :D

I wonder if Santa will bring me a box ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 03, 2018, 12:07:19 AM
Quote from: Chico on November 02, 2018, 11:42:08 PM
Not keen on the Delaque's to be honest but damn the BSF box looks amazing. Need me those Traitor Guard, Rogue Psyker and Beastmen :D

I wonder if Santa will bring me a box ;)

Haven’t seen the 40k beastmen - where are the preview pics?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 03, 2018, 12:40:09 AM
40 miniatures and as a WHQ-game we can expect a quest of 10 or so so yes, plenty of hours playtime. Not dead cheap but good value for money I'd say. And those Delaques, excellent. If we hadn't a Necromuna campaign next weekend I'd chosen these as base models for my Chaos Cult gang instead of the 5 plastic plug & pray-ones + bitz thingies  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 03, 2018, 02:11:30 AM
Quote from: grant on November 03, 2018, 12:07:19 AM
Haven’t seen the 40k beastmen - where are the preview pics?
32 seconds on the Black Fortress video looks like a beastman on the right. Looks fun. I'll be grabbing some bits I hope.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 03, 2018, 02:33:34 AM
Quote from: AWu on November 02, 2018, 09:38:17 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/BloodGloryReveals-Nov2-Delaque13nf.jpg)

At last.
I think I just puked up my guts.
This garbage is a joke right?...RIGHT?!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on November 03, 2018, 03:50:03 AM
Torn by the new Delaque... They have a much better 'grimdark' feel than the old models (and could make excellent cultists) but for all that I am not sold on some of the poses
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 03, 2018, 08:14:27 AM
In their own right these are nice minis but they lack the dynamism I'd expect from Delaque minis. They look more like some kind of bureaucrats or something...well except for all the guns.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 03, 2018, 09:28:40 AM
Daleque miniatures were hardly very dynamic.
They are silent shadowy spies in trenchcoats not matrix ninjas.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 03, 2018, 09:42:38 AM
Interesting scale shot, make of it what you will.

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45299615_2406757306006683_5027559588505845760_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=fd936533e28f9c46d15050cd4d80894d&oe=5C7EBAEB)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 03, 2018, 10:06:12 AM
I did similar comparison (with an eye and matching base size on the monitor  lol. They should be in size with Plague marines from 2017.
So they will dwarf old CSM but will have great proportions!

To reach Primaris size I had to glue them on 2 mm plasticard under the feet and they work like a blast.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 03, 2018, 10:12:23 AM
I get that the first one is older marines and the last is the Primaris, but what era/range is the middle one from?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 03, 2018, 10:17:56 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 03, 2018, 10:12:23 AM
I get that the first one is older marines and the last is the Primaris, but what era/range is the middle one from?
It is a mini from the upcoming Blackstone Fortress box we've been discussing for the last couple of pages  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on November 03, 2018, 10:30:19 AM
Does it say Warhammer Quest on the Blackstone Fortress box? I thought that was fantasy, what am I missing? It's a 40k version of WQ?

I kinda like the new Delaques - but maybe more as cultists or other shady characters. Looks like tall and thin is the new style these Necromunda gangs are sculpted in? The esthetic stands out a bit from other 40K minis, especially the older Necromunda gangs. New sculptor or deliberate attempt to make them 'not' work with old minis?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 03, 2018, 11:48:12 AM
Yup - WHQ:40k.

The scale of the Chaos stuff jars me. They have repeatedly said they are not phasing out the old marines when asked about Primaris, and the background suggests that is true.

Suddenly, Chaos Marines just grow a bit.

Deathguard I can sort of understand as they bloat and the armour becomes part of their flesh so stretches and blisters etc.

Other Chaos Marines?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 03, 2018, 11:57:43 AM
I just wish they'd said "This is the scale we do Marines in now - your old models are still valid but we wanted to use what we've learned to make them true scale" rather than make up the convoluted lore around the Primaris. That way they could've gradually upscaled any other marine variants (including all the Chaos) as time went by. Sure it would've felt annoying to be out of scale if you had old armies but at least there wouldn't be weird lore contradictions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on November 03, 2018, 04:29:22 PM
I was really looking forward to the release of the Delaque gang.
Quite disappointed however at the look of these models.
If I saw them not knowing what they were I think I'd struggle to identify them as such.
To my eye they're not in keeping with the feel of the original gang.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on November 03, 2018, 07:15:59 PM
Quote from: MagpieJono on November 03, 2018, 04:29:22 PM
I was really looking forward to the release of the Delaque gang.
Quite disappointed however at the look of these models.
If I saw them not knowing what they were I think I'd struggle to identify them as such.
To my eye they're not in keeping with the feel of the original gang.

I feel the same way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on November 03, 2018, 07:20:01 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/BloodGloryReveals-Nov2-FleshHounds11be.jpg)

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/BloodGloryReveals-Nov2-Fiends12kg.jpg.jpg)

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/BloodGloryReveals-Nov2-DarkoathWarband15yv.jpg)



And last but not least....

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99229999171_WaterPot01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 03, 2018, 07:39:10 PM
I actually like the chaos flesh hounds and what are the others they look good techno barbarian or tribes people fodder .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 03, 2018, 07:41:23 PM
Quote from: Charlie_ on November 03, 2018, 07:20:01 PM
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99229999171_WaterPot01.jpg)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Z9OGuQyrfHAE8/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 03, 2018, 07:42:30 PM
Quote from: Gibby on November 03, 2018, 11:57:43 AM
I just wish they'd said "This is the scale we do Marines in now - your old models are still valid but we wanted to use what we've learned to make them true scale" rather than make up the convoluted lore around the Primaris. That way they could've gradually upscaled any other marine variants (including all the Chaos) as time went by. Sure it would've felt annoying to be out of scale if you had old armies but at least there wouldn't be weird lore contradictions.
Completely agree.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on November 03, 2018, 07:57:13 PM
I guess no one noticed that the Chaos Space Marines from the Dark Vengeance Box set were larger than the older Chaos Space Marines, same with the Thousand Sons they're also much larger than the old chaos space marines so I don't see how no one saw it coming.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on November 04, 2018, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: Charlie_ on November 03, 2018, 07:20:01 PM
And last but not least....

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99229999171_WaterPot01.jpg)

Any word on how much the Citadel Water for it will be?   ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 04, 2018, 09:50:48 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on November 04, 2018, 09:38:37 AM
Any word on how much the Citadel Water for it will be?   ;)

Also, will it be in Primaris scale or will that come later...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 04, 2018, 10:11:02 AM
They'll sell you a special bundle of the cup and the water at twice the price of adding them to your cart separately purely for the convenience of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 04, 2018, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: Gibby on November 03, 2018, 11:57:43 AM
I just wish they'd said "This is the scale we do Marines in now - your old models are still valid but we wanted to use what we've learned to make them true scale" rather than make up the convoluted lore around the Primaris. That way they could've gradually upscaled any other marine variants (including all the Chaos) as time went by. Sure it would've felt annoying to be out of scale if you had old armies but at least there wouldn't be weird lore contradictions.

Can you imagine the fuss if they had though? It would be worse than people complaining about Primaris. Changing base sizes was bad enough!

And the noise would go on and on until every existing Space Marine model had been remade in the new scale, which would never happen because GW are now much more about adding new things than endlessly reworking and replacing old models like they used to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on November 04, 2018, 12:21:52 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 04, 2018, 11:54:25 AM
Can you imagine the fuss if they had though? It would be worse than people complaining about Primaris. Changing base sizes was bad enough!

Honestly, I think it would have been better.

"Square bases are staying"

"This isn't the end of Warhammer"

"You can still use all of your old models"

The half truths are far worse than a policy of transparency because they erode trust. There'd be an outcry sure, but better clean and clear than dragged out and deceitful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 04, 2018, 01:39:40 PM
I don't think people can justifiably say that things shouldn't change unless they want every business in the world to collapse.

The same as people can stand there and say they wish that VW Golf's were still made to the same spec as 1985, but realistically the demand isn't there amongst other things like safety standards having changed etc.

I'm too long in this game to care now. I like something I buy it. If I don't, I take my money elsewhere. There are entire ranges of GW back catalog I watch people swoon over without any knowledge as to why, they weren't even considered good back then . . .

I like the new Primaris, I bought the cheap ones on the front of Conquest mag and converted them using cheap parts bought from here and there. I won't go out of my way for either game now.

And all of the things people tend to worry about like bases and old models only comes into it if you intend to take part in any official tournament. I never had the inclination so those things never even phase me.

Also, personally, I think things look better on round bases.

There, I said it.

Bite me! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on November 04, 2018, 02:09:36 PM
Have to agree with you there Fonz. Also never got why people were so much into some older models.

Take those Chaos Space Marines, they're proper ropey
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on November 04, 2018, 02:34:18 PM
Quote from: Brummie on November 04, 2018, 02:09:36 PM
Have to agree with you there Fonz. Also never got why people were so much into some older models.

Take those Chaos Space Marines, they're proper ropey

The argument for old models was never about better or worse but about models owned and painted already. One might think that is also a matter only for the tournament gamer, but that seems to be dismissively ignorant of the kids who form the majority of the market and their need to play at games in the same group or shop.

Railing against change is indeed futile and short-sighted, but not to be conflated with complaints about deceitful implementation of change. I'm pretty sure the vast majority  would be happier with a scale reset than the primaris lore nonsense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 04, 2018, 04:11:29 PM
How is the addition of Primaris marines deceitful?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on November 04, 2018, 04:20:52 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 04, 2018, 04:11:29 PM
How is the addition of Primaris marines deceitful?

The claim that they aren't replacing "normal" space marines. Call a spade a spade - it's about a scale reset to protect IP with the happy upside of selling more stuff. In GW land* square bases are functionally dead, your old models are not usable, and warhammer did die.

*yeah most people here won't care about GW land (myself included), but that doesn't mean it isn't true for those who do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 04, 2018, 04:51:43 PM
"Call a spade a spade".

They did. They called them Primaris marines which communicates they have no intention of ever replacing little marines on a like for like basis.

Little marines will be available until they don't sell enough to be viable. That will be years from now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 04, 2018, 05:23:46 PM
Quote from: beefcake on November 04, 2018, 10:11:02 AM
They'll sell you a special bundle of the cup and the water at twice the price of adding them to your cart separately purely for the convenience of it.

Chaps.. This IS the old news :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ9w9J7gfJI
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on November 04, 2018, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 04, 2018, 04:51:43 PM
"Call a spade a spade".

They did. They called them Primaris marines which communicates they have no intention of ever replacing little marines on a like for like basis.

You and I have very different understandings of how marketing works.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 04, 2018, 06:30:32 PM
It's certainly true I don't see deceit behind perfectly clear and understandable product decisions. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on November 04, 2018, 07:14:44 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on November 04, 2018, 06:30:32 PM
It's certainly true I don't see deceit behind perfectly clear and understandable product decisions. lol

You and I have very different concepts of perfectly clear and understandable product decisions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 04, 2018, 07:19:03 PM
That was obvious from your first comment. Remember; you don't care, right?

...

Anyway, WQ Blackstone Fortress looks quite interesting. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/04/the-blackstone-fortress-awakens/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/04/the-blackstone-fortress-awakens/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on November 04, 2018, 07:20:58 PM
There is another feature to the Primaris space marines other than size and that is their simplicity. Although I quite like a lot of the other Space Marines (I have a lot of them) they're very busy models.

Take the Blood Angels or Space Wolves, there is just so much going on. Which isn't the case with the Primaris which are a bit more plain. They're so much easier to paint I find myself drawn to them for that reason alone.

Lore wise I understand the argument they're a little contradictory, but many franchises tend to retcon. Given the normal space marines seem to have so many faults in makes sense they attempted to make a better space marine at a time of Uber galactic upheaval. The only issue is unless things have changed, rule wise Primaris aren't as flexible as their smaller cousins.

On another note Black Stone Fortress is looking very cool. I hope they release some expansions to flesh out the monsters that dwell within.

I do hope that if they're going down the route of new stuff that they revisit some of the Imperial Guard regiments, add a new Alien faction and make a start fleshing out the Eldar again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 04, 2018, 08:30:23 PM
Quote from: Brummie on November 04, 2018, 07:20:58 PM
There is another feature to the Primaris space marines other than size and that is their simplicity. Although I quite like a lot of the other Space Marines (I have a lot of them) they're very busy models.


I get what you say here but man.. I want busy primarises :P
Thats why I converted some to be Black Templars :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 04, 2018, 08:58:56 PM
44 miniatures in the Blackstone box, for £95. That is pretty good value, actually! (And very few poor minis in my opinion - don't like the Eldar Scout much, but otherwise pretty happy with those sculpts).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 04, 2018, 09:48:53 PM
Yeah, I mean, I agree to an extent.

But I think I've lived through enough sneaky under the radar wargames changes before that to sort of, shrug it off I guess.

I mean where do you start? It's not just GW.

Scale creep is industry wide, just look at Infinity. Or the drastic shift from RPG / skirmish in metal to mass battle game in PVC seen by Rackham.

The old 25's became 28's, then 30's and now 32's. Not unique to sci fi / fantasy either really. True 25's are gone. Lets not forget the - "No, they are 28mm." "Well sir, they measure 30mm." "Ah, well all true miniature makers scale to the eye . . . ."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 05, 2018, 03:31:03 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on November 04, 2018, 01:39:40 PM
Bite me.

No, you say sensible things. We all like the 80's but only in the 80's. Nowadays it's nothing more than nostalgia. It wouldn't stand up agains todays demands and be honest, if we'd see 80's classic non-gw models we'd step onto our soap boxes and demand they'd melt them on the spot to make some lead plumbing rubbish or something decent toywise at the very leastto look at and play with.
To me, the 80's and 90's were great. As is/are the current days, GW never before did release so many excellent playable fun games each year before and be honest, the plastic models beat our classic favorite metals hands down. It's not even a far game, so let's just stop the bloody nostalgia, cherish what we had at the time and enjoy what GW is re;easing nowadays. I dare you, look at it open minded. It's really great stuff. I'm sorry to say, but GW are on top once more, and it really hurts to say so for me..  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on November 07, 2018, 09:10:20 AM
I like the scale of Primaris Marines. But I don’t like the in-setting, er, deployment (if that’s the right word) with “Intercessors” instead of Tac Squads or “Inceptors” instead of Assault Squads, etc. Yes, I realize these parallels are not quite one-for-one as between Primaris and, um, mini Marines. But I wish GW had been either more up front about the scale-shift and said, well it’s finally time that Space Marines on the table top were a bit more accurate to their portrayal in the Black Library novels, or else just be more sneaky and continue the scale creep we’ve seen recently with stuff like the newer Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, and Death Guard figs, not to mention the CSM in the Dark Vengeance starter and in the upcoming Blackstone Fortress set.

As it stands, we’re now saddled with this frankly comical issue in the setting of genetically-modified super soldiers literally looking up to shinier genetically-modified super soliders. Surely, this is absurd even by 40k standards. If only we could just have 40mm Space Marines without all this dumb “Primaris” fluff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 07, 2018, 03:02:53 PM
I've never had an army of marines (outside of 6mm anyway), so maybe aren't as affected by the Primaris stuff, but in my humble one GW was quite sensible about it. Loads of people wanted true-scale marines. Loads of people would be upset if their existing marines no longer fit the fluff. So GW had to alter the fluff so that it made sense for true-scale/old-scale marines to be fighting side by side.... the Primaris story does that. I'm sure in the future, if the old-scale lines are discontinued, the fluff will be rewritten so that all the marines were true-scale from the get go.

I agree that the actual Primaris story is silly, but in my opinion it is no sillier than all the gene-seed bollocks - the best Space Marine fluff is the Rogue Trader era story that they're just particularly psycho or barbaric human beings undergone forcible religious conversion and elite military training  :)

Also, never understood the complaint that Chaos marines are oversized. The classic Chaos Warrior sculpts are almost all oversized compared to e.g. an Empire crossbowman or Brettonian knight, and are no worse off for it. I just figure that Chaos embiggens you.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 07, 2018, 09:03:58 PM
Quote from: Manchu on November 07, 2018, 09:10:20 AM
I like the scale of Primaris Marines. But I don’t like the in-setting, er, deployment (if that’s the right word) with “Intercessors” instead of Tac Squads or “Inceptors” instead of Assault Squads, etc. Yes, I realize these parallels are not quite one-for-one as between Primaris and, um, mini Marines. But I wish GW had been either more up front about the scale-shift and said, well it’s finally time that Space Marines on the table top were a bit more accurate to their portrayal in the Black Library novels, or else just be more sneaky and continue the scale creep we’ve seen recently with stuff like the newer Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, and Death Guard figs, not to mention the CSM in the Dark Vengeance starter and in the upcoming Blackstone Fortress set.

As it stands, we’re now saddled with this frankly comical issue in the setting of genetically-modified super soldiers literally looking up to shinier genetically-modified super soliders. Surely, this is absurd even by 40k standards. If only we could just have 40mm Space Marines without all this dumb “Primaris” fluff.

Well said, that's what I was getting at. The models are great - the hamfisted lore not so much.

Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 07, 2018, 03:02:53 PM
Loads of people would be upset if their existing marines no longer fit the fluff.

Well, they already didn't fit the fluff in the sense that they were out of scale relative to a Guardsman or whatever.

That said, 40k fluff is pretty silly anyway - super big-brother soldiers to the super soldiers won't hurt too much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 07, 2018, 10:58:27 PM
One thing I've always stuck by is that marines are not the ones out of scale, Imperial guard are.

If you look at relative sizes.

(https://orig00.deviantart.net/6f3d/f/2012/038/6/4/40k__know_your_races__by_csp499-d4p0y4z.png)

Guard are far to big. Simply shrinking them would actually bring a lot of others into line with their comparative sizes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on November 07, 2018, 11:06:27 PM
So, wait...

Sisters of Battle draw tits on their armour and Guardsmen have massive knackers?  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 07, 2018, 11:37:15 PM
As a normal human blood sack in the 41st millennia you'd certainly need to be big on something to go running around toe to toe with all of those nasties out there. Not to mention being called a heretic for sneezing! ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on November 08, 2018, 03:12:50 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on November 07, 2018, 10:58:27 PM
One thing I've always stuck by is that marines are not the ones out of scale, Imperial guard are.

Guard are far to big. Simply shrinking them would actually bring a lot of others into line with their comparative sizes.

Agree.  For quite a while now I've been using Warlord Bolt Action (mostly Germans and British Commandos) converted with more moderns heads, gear and lasguns as Imperial Guard.   They look perfect next to "normal"/pre-Primaris marines.  Of course, now they look like elves next to Primaris.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on November 08, 2018, 04:21:38 PM
Quote from: Reboot Guillotine on November 08, 2018, 03:12:50 PM
Of course, now they look like elves next to Primaris.

Well hang on, how big should an elf be?

/ducks
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on November 08, 2018, 04:45:37 PM
Quote from: waitwhat on November 08, 2018, 04:21:38 PM
Well hang on, how big should an elf be?

/ducks

A fair question in this day and age.

I was referring to a Keebler elf, not an Eldar or Tolkien elf.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 08, 2018, 07:49:35 PM
Quote from: Reboot Guillotine on November 08, 2018, 04:45:37 PM
A fair question in this day and age.

I was referring to a Keebler elf, not an Eldar or Tolkien elf.

Damnit, now I want cookies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 08, 2018, 08:18:08 PM
So more like an 'Elf on a Shelf'?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 08, 2018, 08:45:10 PM
Dunno who that Girl is but GW is upping their latest marketing achievements teaming up beloved Duncan and his sidekick Peachy with some local celebrity hot chick, that actually is explaining the rules of the game better than original GW staff :P

https://warhammer40000.com/blackstone-fortress/

Here : How to play.
And this is quite informative if quite long movie based on programs of such boardgaming celebrities like Will Wheaton and Felicia Day.

Intresting turn of event but marketingvise - good step. Broadening the base. (There are 2 female player characters in the box)


And then.. This happened..
GW is killing in targeted marketing this autumn :O

Everybody is hating our 40k Kiddie books.. How to change that attitude
Duncan Rhodes ? - nah he is overdone lately

Wait I have an Idea..

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/BLBlog-Nov7-Portraits-1ov.jpg)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/07/warhammer-adventures-the-audiobooks/?fbclid=IwAR3O0KWFN4LKIedEESkkFVS8jWVO9wBoOgwNrUG_AM2PlfuH_Dw67O2-1Sc


PS: They should make 40k movie with them :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on November 08, 2018, 09:18:01 PM
Quote from: Brummie on November 04, 2018, 07:20:58 PM
There is another feature to the Primaris space marines other than size and that is their simplicity. Although I quite like a lot of the other Space Marines (I have a lot of them) they're very busy models.

Absolutely.  In the olden (RT/2nd Ed) days I wished the marines were bedecked with gothic details.  Then over time it happened and, as you say, it just got too busy instead of a rugged soldier aesthetic.  The Primaris marines certainly solve that (for me, at least) with their simpler, more contemporary military vibe.

It took me a while to warm up to the MkX armor, but I rather like the basic Primaris marine (i.e. "Intercessor").  The proportions are killer, the bigger bolter is great.  The other newbies ("Inceptors" and "Aggressors") are more of a mixed bag for me.  But the basic dudes and all the options they bring (conversion-wise) are pretty good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 09, 2018, 12:25:24 AM
Quote from: AWu on November 08, 2018, 08:45:10 PM
Dunno who that Girl is
Becca Scott. From Geek and Sundry.
Quite a big name from quite a big site/youtube group.
Almost 2,000,000 subscribers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Braxandur on November 09, 2018, 08:06:24 AM
Becca Scott is indeed pretyt well known. While nice to look at, the way she explains games is not really clicking with me. She did also do the how to play for Age of Sigmar when the 2nd edition came out.

This time it really looked like she has no clue what she is talking about and uses a teleprompter. Onces I had that feeling, the way she stares and sometimes even moves her head forward is if to better see the text, started to annoy me. I didn't even get further than 1m25s  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 09, 2018, 08:57:53 AM
Now they made it much better.

What annoys me is the way they chatter around.  (I dont watch such programs from exact this reason - if she being totally unknown to me was not a clue )
But I guess I am just not the target - judging from my attempts at such programs as they are prevalent in them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 09, 2018, 11:59:38 AM
Quote from: Braxandur on November 09, 2018, 08:06:24 AM
This time it really looked like she has no clue what she is talking about and uses a teleprompter. Onces I had that feeling, the way she stares and sometimes even moves her head forward is if to better see the text, started to annoy me. I didn't even get further than 1m25s  lol

I dunno, but a tightly scripted, edited, tele-prompted how to play video seems like the best way of doing things if you want to get the rules across quickly and clearly. The unscripted asides by the GW staff aren't in her usual videos.

And later in the video, when they're playing the game, it's clear she knows the rules as she guides the rest of the players though the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 09, 2018, 12:32:38 PM
More silly is how Duncan and that other guy pretend they do not know the rules :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 10, 2018, 07:02:18 AM
Quote from: AWu on November 09, 2018, 12:32:38 PM
More silly is how Duncan and that other guys pretend they do not know the rules :P
Yeah. Why do they need to pretend?
They work for GW. We know they don't know the rules anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 10, 2018, 01:37:31 PM
Quote from: JollyBob on November 07, 2018, 11:06:27 PM
So, wait...

Sisters of Battle draw tits on their armour and Guardsmen have massive knackers?  :o

I know I do...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on November 10, 2018, 02:46:20 PM
The style of the Blackstone Fortress video didn't much work for me either.
I mean, I ended up watching all 99 minutes of it as I was interested in finding out how the game played, and differed from e.g. Silver Tower, but it simply was too fake, even more so in contrast with the actually spontaneous comments provided by players at times. The scripted sections would work alright for a short "how to play" video setting out the rules and things, but this was like the pictures they always had in rulebooks, of people with broad smiles standing around a gaming table looking about as unnaturural as possible. Four people actually having fun while playing the game (such as when they played through Silver Tower on the Twitch channel) is a much better advertisement than this, which half the time looks and sounds like the full-on commercial that it also is. As it went on, even the various camera angles they had started to feel wrong; just too clean and produced.


A David Tennant audiobook by the way? No interest in the story, but there's a voice I'd happily listen to for hours upon end.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 10, 2018, 04:20:41 PM
The pre-order is up - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-Quest-Blackstone-Fortress-2018-eng

I am tempted by the figures, if not the game so much, and 44 figures for £95 (presumably less from Wayland etc) is reasonable value.

I would like a bit more variety in the poses, and I suspect it's their standard kit approach, where converting is possible but verging on the masochistic.

I'll wait until I see some sprues before deciding, but I'm definitely leaning towards "buy" at the moment o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on November 10, 2018, 04:48:49 PM
The set retails for £76 at Element Games, should you be interested feel free to use my TIM940 code for double loyalty points at the checkout. Although very tempting I will pass as I have enough miniatures already!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 10, 2018, 06:25:06 PM
Quote from: Belgian on November 10, 2018, 04:48:49 PM
I will pass as I have enough miniatures already!

Error. Does not compute.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 10, 2018, 09:03:31 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c5/7a/e7/c57ae7759b776733539e25376a834dda.jpg)

Be like Smaug..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on November 10, 2018, 10:43:29 PM
I don't even tell people I paint miniatures anymore.  I say I'm a connoisseur of sprues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 10, 2018, 11:21:13 PM
I just preordered the Kroot scout from a bits seller. The rest doesn't really interest me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on November 11, 2018, 04:02:39 AM
I'm just excited to see something new that's not Nurgle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 11, 2018, 08:17:10 AM
Thanks for the reminder beefcake, have just pre-ordered me a Navigator.

I hope they do a plastic astropath at some point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on November 11, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
Quote from: Reboot Guillotine on November 10, 2018, 10:43:29 PM
I don't even tell people I paint miniatures anymore.  I say I'm a connoisseur of sprues.

... and now we are two; the movement grows like a virus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on November 11, 2018, 11:22:54 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on November 11, 2018, 11:00:12 AM
... and now we are two; the movement grows like a virus.

"No, I am Sprue-tcus lol"

Make that three ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on November 11, 2018, 07:51:20 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on November 11, 2018, 11:22:54 AM
"No, I am Sprue-tcus lol"

Make that three ::)

My name is Legion, for we are many...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on November 11, 2018, 08:04:12 PM
Quote from: wolfen on November 11, 2018, 07:51:20 PM
My name is Legion, for we are many...

My name is Brian and so is my wife lol ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on November 11, 2018, 09:48:14 PM
Hm, I was thinking of getting the Kill Team Starter Box set, but it looks like it's sold out atm? Both at GW and most retailers, is that unusal?

I don't much care for the techie minis, but the terrain and genestealer hybrids I like, plus you get the rulebook etc.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 11, 2018, 09:59:04 PM
GW have said they have lots of plans for Kill Team so I expect they are doing another run and it will be available again very soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belgian on November 12, 2018, 10:50:56 AM
Quote from: AWu on November 10, 2018, 09:03:31 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c5/7a/e7/c57ae7759b776733539e25376a834dda.jpg)

Be like Smaug..

Already feel like Smaug  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on November 12, 2018, 10:55:07 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on November 11, 2018, 09:59:04 PM
GW have said they have lots of plans for Kill Team so I expect they are doing another run and it will be available again very soon.

Sure, I was aware it's marked temporarily unavailable, but does that happen a lot with GW products?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Momotaro on November 12, 2018, 11:21:18 AM
Yeah, they cut down on machinery under Kirby, so you find a lot of stuff floats in and out of availability.  It's almost always back in stock in a few weeks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 12, 2018, 11:55:07 AM
That happens a lot with new bargain boxed sets.
I had to wait 2 months for Middle Earth Box restock (best bargain they did in heir history - so it sold really well)

Only discontinued starter set without restock was Kill Team predecessor Shadow War Armageddon (and it sold like hot cakes) but they say in advance that certain product are limited.

Kill Team starter was restocked some time ago (few weeks),  so I expect it will return before Christmas (I am considering it as Christmas gift to myself - its much more attractive that buying same terrain alone.

Saying that:
There are certain product you need to buy fast.
Card packs, some dices were limited and Underworlds card sleeves (GW seams to just do them as splash release and I cant buy me Orks and Garruk Reavers sets I want)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on November 12, 2018, 04:13:41 PM
Guess I'ma go in on this Blackstone Fortress.  I didn't get the last few boxes (because the exclusive HQ minis didn't really excite me, nor the Rogue Trader stuff) but this one has enough toys to be interesting for a while.  I like the Kroot guy, the Iron Giant, the burninator, chaos Cadians, goatboys, and the main chaos dude.  Also nice to see them expanding/revisiting the lore a bit and trying some new aesthetics, e.g. the robot and the fortress guardian things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 12, 2018, 04:38:56 PM
Quote from: Belgian on November 12, 2018, 10:50:56 AM
Already feel like Smaug  :D

A.lways

B.e

H.oarding
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: LordOdo on November 12, 2018, 04:48:34 PM
Anyone that has played both Nightvault & Shadespire? I may get one of those to get back into GW stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 12, 2018, 05:03:22 PM
Yes, Shadespire rocks. Buy it, you won't regret it. Nightvault has to wait till next month, other things to spend my money on atm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 12, 2018, 06:58:39 PM
I think Shadespire is out of print due to the release of Nightvault.

I might have a virtually untouched copy of Shadespire going though.  ;)

It's a good, fun game but not my style.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 13, 2018, 07:04:42 PM
Buy Nightvault.

Is more current rule set and has 2 unique bands (and Ghost band is just gorgeous!). Shadespire boxed warbands were released as stand alone.

if you like the game you may look for Shadespire box for boards that were in it, but if you want to buy something to play get the Nightvault.

And its very good game. Unlike anything GW released but very playable and very cool with small bands of beautiful models.

I own almost everything they released and I love it (well except the Sigmarines, but they are Ok too, just not so loved - their campy way of playing dont interest me too much, I am having most fun with glascannon skaven - hmm glass halaberd ?  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on November 13, 2018, 07:43:42 PM
I've been half looking at getting into Shadespire and/or Nightvault as I'm on a really small scale gaming binge right now and some of the warbands look really nice.

I may be wrong but it seems that is the major change with Nightvault is that warbands now have access to magic casting?

If I got Nightvault, would anybody using the warbands released for Shadespire be at a disadvantage due to there being no magic ability in these warbands?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 13, 2018, 08:18:34 PM
magic is an addition. Tp be honest its not major part of the game and spells are used sparsely apart from Tzeench warband.
I am yet to loose the match against Nightvault warband with my Skaven (I havent played vs magical Sigmarines mind you) - but they are not the opponents I fear (these are big Khorne dudes and Orcs).
Ghost can be devastating but they are not spell based in reality - they do move shenanigans.

But in reality power or lack of power of any warband comes from card deck and how you use it. And magic is not best option for anything really. It could be ok suport but spells are in direct competitions with Ploys (same spot) but Ploys are much better most of the times.

So technically speaking you will loose against guys that have most of the cards (which you can easily proxy unless you want to go tourney and win) and know what they are doing (this game is really a puzzle and game play is more important than cards or band) lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on November 14, 2018, 01:12:48 AM
Cheers for that AWu,

Good to hear that magic isn't all dominating as that was my initial worry between Shadespire and Nightvault.

I'll have to check it out. It is a game I've been looking over the past few months but I haven't taken the plunge yet and I've only heard good things.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on November 14, 2018, 01:11:51 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on November 07, 2018, 10:58:27 PM
One thing I've always stuck by is that marines are not the ones out of scale, Imperial guard are...

...Guard are far to big. Simply shrinking them would actually bring a lot of others into line with their comparative sizes.

And that's why I never went for the Cadian plastics, or the 2nd ed metal Guardsmen before that, but rather for the RT era Necromundan plastic Guardsmen (upgraded with later plastic weapons); at least lengthwise they're somewhat in scale with standard space marines. Of course they're way too bulky and goofy, but I chalk that up to Darwinian reasons (read: inbreeding)... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on November 14, 2018, 01:41:17 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on November 14, 2018, 01:11:51 PM
And that's why I never went for the Cadian plastics, or the 2nd ed metal Guardsmen before that, but rather for the RT era Necromundan plastic Guardsmen (upgraded with later plastic weapons); at least lengthwise they're somewhat in scale with standard space marines.

They are also gold dust. I have a box but I can't possibly afford to actually ruin them with paint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 14, 2018, 06:46:13 PM
Quote from: waitwhat on November 14, 2018, 01:41:17 PM
They are also gold dust. I have a box but I can't possibly afford to actually ruin them with paint.
lol I feel like  that about all my miniatures .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 14, 2018, 09:08:02 PM
Quote from: Red Kop on November 14, 2018, 01:12:48 AM
Cheers for that AWu,

Good to hear that magic isn't all dominating as that was my initial worry between Shadespire and Nightvault.

I'll have to check it out. It is a game I've been looking over the past few months but I haven't taken the plunge yet and I've only heard good things.

Only thing unique to magic is recovering used cards from your discard pile - but that hardly a game changer.
Rest of spell effect is easily duplicable by other ploys or not that attractive and spells are one use only.

Very Important new for anybody wanting to play in a tournament of Underworlds.
They made Ban (3 cards that should be banned) an d restricted card lists.
This should help to balance the game a lot.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/14/warhammer-underworlds-news-bans-restrictions-and-a-new-deck-buildergw-homepage-post-1/?fbclid=IwAR0lmK-fila62R8IFKtIS9p6S7wQq3x2nxTBi4y4xvh3CyVpsFbaCNnDh-c
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on November 16, 2018, 06:00:25 AM
Quote from: Momotaro on November 12, 2018, 11:21:18 AM
Yeah, they cut down on machinery under Kirby, so you find a lot of stuff floats in and out of availability.  It's almost always back in stock in a few weeks.

Ok, thanks Momotaro and Awu. I haven't really followed GW doings these past years, so this was a bit of surprise for me. I will wait patiently then...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on November 18, 2018, 02:33:49 AM
I may have kind of accidentally gotten one of my friends involved in AoS by showing him the kharadron overlords. With any luck, I'll have a regular sparring buddy again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 18, 2018, 11:49:00 AM
Wow! The year is 2018 and we're taking pics of women playing wargames because it's still a shock? Really?

Christ on a bike!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 18, 2018, 08:17:14 PM
To be honest I took pic of Smaug, girl is just in the frame  lol

This is 300 pound display model  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 18, 2018, 08:46:27 PM
Wouldn’t want to trip an drop it  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 18, 2018, 10:12:00 PM
Exactly..

Its time to get an insurance in the turnnament entry fee?:P


And Ive seen second Smaug some tables away risking its .. structural integrity.. lol lol lol
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46479667_10156800281768236_3440201918570299392_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=6d0b4f8a3b38b6793701e6665fb55629&oe=5CB06CD9)

Quality of this picture is the reason Ive scored that extra blonde on the second, close ups wont work with shaky hands   ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on November 19, 2018, 08:33:48 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on November 18, 2018, 11:49:00 AM
Wow! The year is 2018 and we're taking pics of women playing wargames because it's still a shock? Really?

You've more chance of seeing a real dragon at a historical tournament than a female player.

Seriously though, maybe there's a female-dominated corner of the internet where guys at tourneys are being defined by terms like "BO Guy", or "Mr Creepy with phone-cam".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: soldado on November 19, 2018, 09:48:19 AM
Quote from: Arlequín on November 19, 2018, 08:33:48 AM
You've more chance of seeing a real dragon at a historical tournament than a female player.

Probably because there'd be less creepy comments and surreptitious photo taking if a dragon turned up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on November 19, 2018, 10:10:18 AM
I was at Warhammer World at the weekend. Quite a few women of all ages playing (Middle Earth and AoS mostly I think) . Predominantly male people in the hall but still a significant number and certainly more than when I've been there previously. Can only be a good thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 19, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
Your concentration on hairy part not on 300 pound scally part says a lot about it  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 19, 2018, 07:35:06 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on November 19, 2018, 08:33:48 AM
"Mr Creepy with phone-cam".

One of these creatures was taking a picture of my brother's wife as she was feeding my new niece on the weekend, with the intention of acting as a member of the self-appointed morality police.

Luckily the facility was a city one (we were taking the older kids to an indoor playground at a local rec centre), so the staff (who he'd already annoyed) gave him merry hell before my brother had the chance to do anything rash.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 20, 2018, 09:42:39 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 19, 2018, 07:35:06 PM
One of these creatures was taking a picture of my brother's wife as she was feeding my new niece on the weekend, with the intention of acting as a member of the self-appointed morality police.
Some people are so clueless and need to worry about something that is actually a problem.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 20, 2018, 08:51:53 PM
Yeah, I mean if you wanted to take a photo of a dragon, you just ask the owner nicely - I suspect 9 times out of 10 they'd be only too pleased.

Women are certainly not that few in number in the gaming hobby now. I know several, but it is seeing things like this that prevent more from attending tournaments and shows.

It really shouldn't be case of 'Wow, wimmins' anymore. No matter their age, gender or perceived attractiveness. Imagine how the hell most of us would feel if the tables were turned.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syr8766 on November 20, 2018, 09:15:11 PM
My (sadly currently defunct, due to loss of venue, but looks like it may be making a comback!) local gaming club had a great diversity of folks (helped that we played a great diversity of games) including women, POC, ages ranging from teenagers-grandparents, etc. My experience in the United States, sadly, is that this is often the exception, rather than the rule. But The Icehouse Gamers (as it was known and shall be known again) was a safe space to come and push around figures, talk shop, etc. It helps that the organizers were all 'proper' adults who made sure that people felt welcome and encouraged a healthy environment. It also helped that it wasn't in a store. Nothing against stores, of course, but it's harder to establish consequences for bad behavior when the perpetrators are "paying customers", especially if you're staff and not the owner. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on November 21, 2018, 11:08:09 AM
A sign of the times maybe, but back in the day you'd have to look at the photo a fair amount of time before you even realised there were people in it too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 21, 2018, 12:36:26 PM
Quote from: Arlequín on November 21, 2018, 11:08:09 AM
A sign of the times maybe, but back in the day you'd have to look at the photo a fair amount of time before you even realised there were people in it too.

Sorry, but that just isn't true. Back in the day, with a film camera and a flash, you'd not be so able to sneakily take a photo.

It also used to be that you didn't notice the people in it because they were nearly always the same demographic and you didn't have people drawing your attention to someone that wasn't.  ;)

I'm not saying anyone was up to anything mischievous here, but it I think people need to realise how it could be interpreted. It's a far more open and inclusive hobby now than it ever has been. That sort of suggests change and dictates changes in hobby etiquette. 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on November 21, 2018, 02:06:11 PM
Another sign of the sign of the times is that a joke is now not usually recognised as such unless you add an emoticon.  ::)

That being said I am all for a more a more inclusive hobby and abhor any idea that anyone should be made to feel not welcome by the actions of others.

While the photo can be explained away, use of "Hot Chick" etc. in the text of a post would be less ambiguous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 21, 2018, 08:38:27 PM
Hey, hot chick killing Smaug is a direction I want to take my hobby into. Though such thing may vary :)

And to be honest I discovered her after taking this photo. 
But this conversation amused me too  to be honest.
I am generally not big event gamer and only women I meet playing wargames is my wife so I do not have such experiences (and the boardgames are quite different demographic around), but when one see intrusion of privacy instead of poetic beauty of the moment I can only say that my joke failed at the audience  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on November 22, 2018, 10:27:07 AM
I don't see invasion of privacy, if you go to a public place you're fair game, whoever you are.

In an ideal world though, there would be many more female members on this forum, possibly even the young lady herself. She would also feel confidant enough in the membership response to openly complain if she wasn't happy.

That's not going to just happen by itself though and as a male-dominated site, at least some of us males have to push things in that direction.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 22, 2018, 12:36:04 PM
Maybe let's just not refer to women as 'hot chicks', especially when they're minding their own business as a wargames tournament.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: LordOdo on November 22, 2018, 12:43:24 PM
It's an interesting discussion, but I think it would need a thread of it's own if it keeps going on :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on November 22, 2018, 01:45:34 PM
Quote from: LordOdo on November 22, 2018, 12:43:24 PM
It's an interesting discussion, but I think it would need a thread of it's own if it keeps going on :)

I'd rather it died right now tbh, it's a discussion that has run its course.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 22, 2018, 03:04:57 PM
I'll tell you guys what's a sign of the times: Yesterday I walked past a bar which had a poster in the window advertising "Misery Alleviation Hour".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 22, 2018, 08:30:05 PM
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ANSKeP14oK4/W_XkP-nk5NI/AAAAAAABiBc/NX8jwirO1Xsex3tgvqYVB0Tbop4vUMMsgCLcBGAs/s1600/21-11-3HeaddHound-1025x1339.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 22, 2018, 10:33:55 PM
Right, so they're going for the idea that in the Age of Sigmar setting people would be hysterical about a three headed dog and others would scoff at the idea?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 22, 2018, 11:35:58 PM
A bit silly agree but I am unfamiliar with AoS fluf apart from Shadespire
Three headed Fleshhound of khorne is rumored to get a model

Meanwhile in the real world:
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46513169_10156372040935129_4903703486287314944_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeHjC2P2JmLQ1LFxEV7pNQqdEZwQdyMJtmsaiaywyscWvRTW-sWknEcBbM29GuN7umsCMPRb1gV45aQfbvUyFe6NWjtkob1xwUy9tEM-AfgVqQ&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=aee0d10562354a1a9f06326fb9add3d9&oe=5C757B65)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46492579_10156372041015129_5592787021350305792_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_eui2=AeHLY6cKurazn15DL3o8L10yStldlucaH6zOrZowMzktohDBcUmz-XYhGNEEdIlLHG5c-H4Djc2NQI38OIIJGRJjaSs44gFhJd1LP8Lcs0HHLQ&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=f929de48fb7408dbb0bbbf0d30efe4eb&oe=5C724674)

Delaque Brute and Pet Animal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: lethallee61 on November 23, 2018, 02:03:54 AM
Well, after personally swearing to "never again" buy anything from GW, I went out yesterday and bought a "First Strike" starter set for 40K to satisfy a painting itch (I blame a recent read of a Horus Heresy novel).

Fortunately, the game itself appears to be a let down and the pricing of subsequent "essential requirements" means I doubt I'll fall any further into the maelstrom.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 23, 2018, 01:36:54 PM
So the twitch apparently spoke a lot about Necromunda. Someone did a list on fb;

Quote
Ian Henderson (19hrs): Necromunda notes from the Twitch live stream on Delque and updated Rules with Andy and Johnathan.

2 Hardback Books, main rules and gangs, inc slipcase double book Edition.
Rules updated and reformatted.
All book rules so far (not WD gangs) plus new material, world map, FAQ and Eratta.
Large background section Inc new background and Necromunda history timeline.
Gang War books will no longer be for sale.
Supplements will come out as add ons for the new books. No plans for annual rulebook compendiums.

Model status and conditions changed to be easier.
Movement and terrain rules cleared up.
Cover helps vs template weapons.
Toxin / armour save updated and clarified.
Generally, loads of rules tightened up. Very few rules actually changed in what they do.
All fighters can take Wargear, still have weapon restrictions.
Some weapon traits added, others tweaked. Weapons have some stat/modifier changes.
Beasts Lair changed with full profile.
New gang equipment like one use ammo cache or melta traps.

House sub-plots added. Use card decks or roll on 4 tables. Extra objectives, like attack a leader or use Coup de Grace with extra rewards of Creds, Rep, Exp and Tactics cards.

Bounty Hunters updated to help claim Creds and possibly stay with gang for more than one game.

Quarterly releases still coming. Might not all be gangs.

No Gang War 5. But Delaque rules will be available separately.
Minimum Tactics card deck size.

Delaque inc male and female models. A little taller than other gangs.
Long-las heavy weapon. Plus a couple of others. Nothing too big.
Gun shrouds (silencers), web Gauntlet, web solvent, digi-weapons
FW- gravgun, heavy flamer, plasma, melta
Spyker, forced psyker Brute
Spekter, drone servo skull / pet

Delaque Gang specific tactics inc moving obstacles, Intel check for auto miss, swap model positions, can’t target Chosen model, pitch black rules for rest of game.

General gangs tactics inc change attack target, 3 fighters get free shot, Chosen model may not be played, -1 BS WS and Intel on Chosen model.

Guild allies in the future. Guild representatives join gang.
Phyrr Cat models getting reworked.

Happy with that, I'll be getting both books. I have already discussed with my campaign group, we'll be ending the Turf War around Christmas, or just after. Ready to start a new Turf War in the new year.

We'll allow old gangers to be rehired as per rules, but normal starting amount. That way it's a very easy to add the new members to the campaign. With the new updated rules and them being all in one place, I will be super happy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on November 23, 2018, 08:29:15 PM
Makes me glad that I held off buying any of the Gang War books throughout the last 18 months or so - I'd much rather have to deal with 2 books than 5 or 6 whenever playing a game.

Still, looking forward to giving Necromunda more of a run out.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 23, 2018, 11:15:38 PM
Quote from: lethallee61 on November 23, 2018, 02:03:54 AM
bought a "First Strike" starter set for 40K to satisfy a painting itch (I blame a recent read of a Horus Heresy novel).

Fortunately, the game itself appears to be a let down and the pricing of subsequent "essential requirements" means I doubt I'll fall any further into the maelstrom.

Its very cool set.

What I may suggest if you would want to expand is Dark Imperium starter set.
More primarises and nurgle guys and good bulk price. Ive bought both sets without intention of laying 40K :P



Ad: Munda

I hope it will tempt more people to get into. Its great game.
And shitty release schedule with Computer games DLC model just scared many people off :(

Last quarter of 2017 was best time for GW games in ages with Necromundaand Underworlds being released.
Truly gems of playability unheard since LOTR

Torture harp is for real!  :-*
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46522758_2060799723940613_6898197117848780800_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=e812149abf126031d40e469b87785625&oe=5C74BB39)

And biker gangs are incoming in numbers
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/46505971_2060799773940608_1475985448508588032_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=1d0d44b6bc4926f9016dc13d4b4262fa&oe=5C74F771)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 24, 2018, 11:49:25 AM
Yeah, Necro has only been out a yeah. Last November wasn't it?

I've done the same, held back on the books. I suspect they won't be cheap but still. Worth it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 24, 2018, 12:43:46 PM
Ohhhh those new Slaaneshi sculpts are going to end up making me so poor  lol lol :o.

Those Hybrid Biker look amazing too, I don't need a Cult force though.. Do I? *willpower crumbling*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 24, 2018, 02:50:47 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/VigilusWeekender-Nov24-Noise2jvfesbhv.jpg)
 :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on November 24, 2018, 04:08:28 PM
Oh my... That is glorious!   :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 24, 2018, 08:19:30 PM
Talk about 40k getting back to it's roots!

That is sweet as.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 24, 2018, 09:58:44 PM
Ha, I have absolutely no use for that noise marine, and yet I want one!

Really like the new genestealer hybrid with table-console too. The map of warhammer world on the table is a nice touch, as is the nod to the fantastic unreleased Olley version from back in the day
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 25, 2018, 01:04:00 AM
Nice nostalgic piece.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on November 25, 2018, 06:39:21 AM
And so, for the first time in their history, GW has succeeded in convincing me I want to purchase a Space Marine...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on November 25, 2018, 10:12:56 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on November 24, 2018, 02:50:47 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/VigilusWeekender-Nov24-Noise2jvfesbhv.jpg)
 :-*
The Horror of Glam Rock!

Apologies to the Eighth Doctor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 25, 2018, 10:18:24 AM
I've now noticed the left hand - excellent sculpt, beautifully painted. The young ones will not fully get this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on November 25, 2018, 04:21:09 PM
So I guess this is the new Chaos shoulder pad.  The Black Legion dudes from Blackstone Fortress have them as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 25, 2018, 05:26:15 PM
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2zqcx6s.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 25, 2018, 07:12:56 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on November 25, 2018, 05:26:15 PM
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2zqcx6s.jpg)

LADAddon ;P

That Noise marine made me drool..


Quote from: Reboot Guillotine on November 25, 2018, 04:21:09 PM
So I guess this is the new Chaos shoulder pad.  The Black Legion dudes from Blackstone Fortress have them as well.

This is pattern started with Dark Vengance back in 2012


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on November 25, 2018, 07:19:37 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on November 25, 2018, 05:26:15 PM
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2zqcx6s.jpg)

If you fail twelve Black Crusades and the worst the Chaos Gods do to you is not letting you grow an inch or two, I'd say count your dark blessings.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Roo on November 25, 2018, 07:46:33 PM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on November 25, 2018, 08:10:08 PM
We will get a new Abaddon EVENTUALLY! I think 2019 will be the year Black Legion and Word Bearers make a return.

Rumours are Fulgrim is returning too.

Loving the Genestealer bikers. I hope they'd do some conversion sets etc so they can be used in Imperial Guard and Barbaric/Ganger forces because at this rate Genestealers look to be the only force capable of fielding some proper Special Ops type troops.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 26, 2018, 06:17:40 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on November 25, 2018, 07:19:37 PM
If you fail twelve Black Crusades and the worst the Chaos Gods do to you is not letting you grow an inch or two, I'd say count your dark blessings.

 lol

To be fair Abaddon didn't have a model for RT like Calgar. And then the Calgar model was around for yonks, I mean that must be an early-mid 90's sculpt, I'd say 93-94? When was the next one?

Poor old Abaddon eh. No love for the nasty gods there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 27, 2018, 12:45:36 AM
You know what they say, 13th is the lucky number for Black Crusades!

At what point does Abaddon just say, this shit ain’t working - let’s get a taco.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tjgreenway on November 27, 2018, 08:09:58 AM
New Black Legion definitely incoming as well, I'm loving the looks of the new Chaos stuff ..

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/VigilusWeekender-Nov24-Haakan9hgbrmx.jpg)

Quote from the WHC report ..

Quote
The Black Legion have come to Vigilus – led by the sinister herald known as Haarken Worldclaimer. This new champion of the Dark Gods has declared that the world of Vigilus will fall to the Warmaster, within 80 days…


Could the '80 days' be a hint as to when we can expect a new Abaddon? With the new models for Chaos (this character and the Blackstone Fortress guys), I feel like we're leading up to something big for Chaos  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 27, 2018, 10:16:34 AM
GW has said there will be releases for this campaign for several months so I suspect this will all be build up to a summer campaign and yes, could well see Abaddon get a new mini.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 27, 2018, 11:05:23 AM
I'm not sure if its the paint job but he looks a bit busy for my tastes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on November 27, 2018, 11:46:33 AM
Not keen on the whole spear thing honestly, plus they say mini Marines are dead but there's one on his base... Oh wait he's dead too ;)  :o  ;D :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on November 28, 2018, 03:37:24 AM
Quote from: Chico on November 27, 2018, 11:46:33 AM
Not keen on the whole spear thing honestly, plus they say mini Marines are dead but there's one on his base... Oh wait he's dead too ;)  :o  ;D :D

That’s a Primaris on his base. But I get the funny.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on November 30, 2018, 07:15:52 PM
Busy-ness is in the eye of the beholder, but my issue with some of GW's recent Chaos sculpts is a variation on that: they don't seem to make many design choices when it comes to details. That is, they just use every motif possible.   Horns/skulls/spikes? Check. Gaping maw on the armor? Check. Trophy rack? Check. Heads hanging from belt? Check. Tentacles, tubes, and teeth? Check. Glowing runes? Check.  Better add a jump pack, melee weapon, lighting claw and scenic victim just to be safe.

Before you worship the Chaos gods there should be a waiver stating you're okay with a mouth growing out of your shoulder and/or shin.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on November 30, 2018, 08:32:25 PM
What if the shoulder-mouth agrees but the warrior’s does not? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 30, 2018, 10:05:54 PM
I just though they accidentally welded the helmets to their heads so they needed a new way to gobble up poop or whatever it is they eat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on December 05, 2018, 01:27:25 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on November 27, 2018, 11:05:23 AM
I'm not sure if its the paint job but he looks a bit busy for my tastes.
Seems to be the style these past few years.
One I hoped GW were dropping when I saw primaris.
More useless bits + less charm and character = better...for reasons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on December 05, 2018, 04:52:48 PM
Quote from: Reboot Guillotine on November 30, 2018, 07:15:52 PM
Busy-ness is in the eye of the beholder, but my issue with some of GW's recent Chaos sculpts is a variation on that: they don't seem to make many design choices when it comes to details. That is, they just use every motif possible.   Horns/skulls/spikes? Check. Gaping maw on the armor? Check. Trophy rack? Check. Heads hanging from belt? Check. Tentacles, tubes, and teeth? Check. Glowing runes? Check.  Better add a jump pack, melee weapon, lighting claw and scenic victim just to be safe.

Before you worship the Chaos gods there should be a waiver stating you're okay with a mouth growing out of your shoulder and/or shin.

Oh god yes. I've spent at least two hours just prepping chaos models by slicing and cutting all of this additional stuff thats welded to them RIGHT OFF.

A process that burned out my rekindled enthusiasm for power armour...........the demons were much more fun to put together.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 06, 2018, 12:04:44 AM
I find painting GW miniatures to be a chore most of the time these days. I like them but my God they take a long time to paint.

They've entered their 'Rococo' phase if one parallels art history periods with GW miniature styles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on December 06, 2018, 12:35:24 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on December 06, 2018, 12:04:44 AM
They've entered their 'Rococo' phase if one parallels art history periods with GW miniature styles.

I blame the 3D sculpting. Makes it too easy to put excessive detail on everything.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on December 06, 2018, 02:21:56 AM
I once got booted from a miniatures forum for getting into a pissing match with a guy over a GW-busy-detail thread.  A few others and I were discussing the phenomenon a few years ago (pre-Primaris, when regular marines were getting weighed down with gothic bits) and a guy chimed in with something to the effect of "Y'all are just lazy.  I'm a true artist who loves painting the details, etc. etc."  I said some things that were scathingly witty, albeit slightly impolite, and was ejected.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 06, 2018, 06:45:59 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on December 06, 2018, 12:35:24 AM
I blame the 3D sculpting. Makes it too easy to put excessive detail on everything.

That's a good point pixelgeek, I can definitely see some cranking it up more and more on the digital sculpt far beyond what the physical limitations of putty allow. I wonder if traditional sculptors tend to make better digital sculptors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on December 06, 2018, 06:54:18 AM
3D sculpting also creates some obvious repetition and funny errors on models where they just Cltr-C'd (or whatever you do in CAD type programs) the same feature in different places...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 06, 2018, 07:22:12 AM
On that topic, my next kickstarter for STL files is now up and running  lol
Yeah, it is hard to get an idea of detail levels with 3d modelling until you print out the prototypes. Being able to enlarge it so it is 50x the size lets your do that. But they should be able to print it off and think "Hmmm... sometimes less is more" (Hopefully not, less spikes means more skullz)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 06, 2018, 02:56:37 PM
I don't agree with 3D printing meaning more detail.

Mainly because it ignores several factors. First of all, the more detail there is the more you have to consider things like moulding issues. This still applies to plastic miniatures as you have to pull them out of the mould and in theory, any problems are much more expensive to put right.

Then, when you consider the 'oldhammer' era, anything up until the mid 90's, miniatures tended to be stuffed with detail. Some sculptors still do it. Barely a space on a belt as you would find knives, grenades, pouches and ammo pouches etc. The older minis could definitely be just as busy.

The example given here is a Chaos hero/leader model. It is going to be chockablok with detail because that is typically, how fantasy and sci fi minis tend to be to stand out more.

IMHO, you are more likely to find detail on hand sculpted mini's where they are covering up things they are not so good, mistakes or in some cases to aid casting - if there is an area that would be an issue but a conveniently placed coin pouch removes that issue . . .

It's horses for courses and simply down to the sculptors artistic direction etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on December 06, 2018, 05:57:57 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on December 06, 2018, 02:56:37 PM
Mainly because it ignores several factors. First of all, the more detail there is the more you have to consider things like moulding issues. This still applies to plastic miniatures as you have to pull them out of the mould and in theory, any problems are much more expensive to put right.

A lot of this can be tested in software before the model even makes it to a moulding stage

Quote from: mcfonz on December 06, 2018, 02:56:37 PM
Then, when you consider the 'oldhammer' era, anything up until the mid 90's, miniatures tended to be stuffed with detail. Some sculptors still do it. Barely a space on a belt as you would find knives, grenades, pouches and ammo pouches etc. The older minis could definitely be just as busy.

I don't really agree with this. Compare the Ad Mech Ranger plastics to the old Imperial Guard plastics for instance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reboot Guillotine on December 06, 2018, 07:06:14 PM
Also Jes Goodwin's original 2nd Ed era marines were clean as a whistle.  The Ultramarine and Angels of Death codices saw those designs tastefully detailed up a bit (2nd Ed librarians, apothecaries, etc.) but it was the mid-2000s I think when the marines really started to get festooned with stuff.  But then again, appropriate levels of detail vs overly busy are in the eye of the beholder.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 06, 2018, 07:08:46 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on December 06, 2018, 02:56:37 PM
Then, when you consider the 'oldhammer' era, anything up until the mid 90's, miniatures tended to be stuffed with detail. Some sculptors still do it. Barely a space on a belt as you would find knives, grenades, pouches and ammo pouches etc. The older minis could definitely be just as busy.

Nah, I don't really agree with this bit either. I think the fussy mega-detail probably began around this time - in ye olde days we called it 'Chaos Spiky Bitz', which it seems was the forerunner to 'moar skullz' - but by comparison I remember the early 90's and 80's sculpts as being relatively free of superfluous frippery. It's one reason why I love the Oldhammer stuff of this time. 

EDIT: On the subject of 'Chaos Spiky Bitz', to my hazy recollection, the over-fussy decoration did seem to start on the Chaos stuff first, and then spread like a runny poo in the swimming pool to the rest of the ranges.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Arlequín on December 08, 2018, 07:42:03 AM
Yes, it was quite some time after that you could no longer use many Bretonnian and Empire figures as 'historicals'. Even a couple of the Dogs of War 'regiments' worked.

Then they let themselves go, got big and sprouted skullz. It was hard to keep the romance going for me and we grew apart.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 08, 2018, 01:39:41 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on December 06, 2018, 05:57:57 PM
I don't really agree with this. Compare the Ad Mech Ranger plastics to the old Imperial Guard plastics for instance.

Examples go both ways though. The early 90s Confrontation gangers have much more fiddly detail on them than any generation of Necromunda minis, including the current generation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on December 08, 2018, 02:01:16 PM
Quote from: Reboot Guillotine on December 06, 2018, 07:06:14 PM
Also Jes Goodwin's original 2nd Ed era marines were clean as a whistle.  The Ultramarine and Angels of Death codices saw those designs tastefully detailed up a bit (2nd Ed librarians, apothecaries, etc.) but it was the mid-2000s I think when the marines really started to get festooned with stuff.  But then again, appropriate levels of detail vs overly busy are in the eye of the beholder.

One of the things I liked about the new Primaris miniatures is that they are pretty 'plain'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 08, 2018, 05:43:39 PM
Plenty of rose tinted views going on here.

There are plenty of rogue trader minis etc that are festooned with pouches on every available space on their belt. Early space marines can fall foul of this too.

Space Wolves have always had tons of detail.

I'm not saying it's bad either. Personally if I like a mini, I like a mini - the amount of added detail etc can not suit some miniatures but suit others.

I just think it's one of those 'moans' that occurs a fair bit, like GW being too expensive - that tends to suggest that their mini's haven't been like that before. Bob Olley and Kev Adams are both known for throwing gubbins and details on their minis.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 08, 2018, 06:43:08 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on December 08, 2018, 05:43:39 PM
Plenty of rose tinted views going on here.

There are plenty of rogue trader minis etc that are festooned with pouches on every available space on their belt. Early space marines can fall foul of this too.

Space Wolves have always had tons of detail.

I'm not saying it's bad either. Personally if I like a mini, I like a mini - the amount of added detail etc can not suit some miniatures but suit others.

I just think it's one of those 'moans' that occurs a fair bit, like GW being too expensive - that tends to suggest that their mini's haven't been like that before. Bob Olley and Kev Adams are both known for throwing gubbins and details on their minis.

Indeed. I've got a RT-era alien mercenary type on my painting table which is so busy that I started painting him and then stripped the figure multiple times since no colour scheme seems to work properly.

More pouches than a Liefeld character.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on December 08, 2018, 07:01:44 PM
Aye plenty of Oldhammer miniatures that are festooned with random bits and overyly busy.

Bob Olley's Iron Claw ranges or Bob Naismiths Dark Elves are all good examples of this  and are bloody busy and can be a  real pain to paint.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1IvjntBT_Z4/UoOUGbOhkOI/AAAAAAAABec/ubEWMGzRJNc/s1600/c09darkelvesc3.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dsl3b7mgGZM/VJEWA5tsxoI/AAAAAAAACVM/fJtmHmlgeIk/s1600/Space%2BPirates.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 08, 2018, 08:59:38 PM
Ah, in my defence I didn't collect those ranges.

And Bob Olley's 'Iron Claw' range wasn't a Citadel range. It was produced by Citadel but wasn't released under their name.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on December 08, 2018, 09:17:07 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 08, 2018, 08:59:38 PM
Ah, in my defence I didn't collect those ranges.

And Bob Olley's 'Iron Claw' range wasn't a Citadel range. It was produced by Citadel but wasn't released under their name.

Hehe nitpicking at it's best there ;) but as you mentioned they were manufactured and distributed by Citadel and when Mr Olley left many of these ranges were assimilated into the main Citadel lists though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 08, 2018, 09:36:38 PM
I shall pick at the nit sir, I shall indeed pick.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 09, 2018, 12:37:14 AM
Quote from: Cubs on December 08, 2018, 09:36:38 PM
I shall pick at the nit sir, I shall indeed pick.
If you do that, it'll never get better. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 09, 2018, 12:55:05 AM
Well, I painted the entire Iron Claw Space Pirate range at the same time and thoroughly enjoyed it.
And I am not normally one for too many fiddly bits to paint, but I do love Olley's sculpts.

I suppose if a figure or range really takes your fancy you will enjoy it regardless of how much is going on..

Horses for courses, I guess....and being gamers we will never all agree.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on December 09, 2018, 02:13:09 AM
Quote from: Chico on December 08, 2018, 07:01:44 PM
Aye plenty of Oldhammer miniatures that are festooned with random bits and overyly busy.

Bob Olley's Iron Claw ranges or Bob Naismiths Dark Elves are all good examples of this  and are bloody busy and can be a  real pain to paint.


Maybe I have a different opinion of what we are discussing but those look like sculpting mannequins compared to some of the recent GW figs
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 09, 2018, 10:17:25 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on December 09, 2018, 02:13:09 AM
Maybe I have a different opinion of what we are discussing but those look like sculpting mannequins compared to some of the recent GW figs

Seen in the lead, those ranges and the Confrontation gangers are *very* busy, as compared to say the (imho wonderful) skitarii.

Though we could maybe distinguish between detail that makes sense (Confrontation gangers typically have side-arms, knives, optics, bandoliers, ammo pouches, rebreathers, communicators, tassles, piercings and studs, bones/trophies, shin pads, shoulder pads, and other bits of body armour, etc. - everything a hive ganger should have) as opposed to pointless detail (spikes with spikey skullz on them).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on December 10, 2018, 01:31:15 PM
It comes to miniature..

Aforementioned confrontation gangers - Brats especially are 100% full of details but they paint wonderfully and look great.
I am fond of classic Space wolves too and not so plain Marines from 2nd edition.
And I think that Primarises are little too plain, that is why I updetailed mine :P

But beauty of difference in our opinions let producers create different styles and find a niche on the market :P
I am all for variety in miniatures!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 10, 2018, 10:54:36 PM
Indeed.

The very fact that there are miniatures for all of our tastes out there just goes to show what a wonderful age of tabletop gaming we are in these days.

I wasn't trying to be pro / against loads of detail, sometimes it is distracting, sometimes it's not. It's all down to our own perspectives of course.

I merely feel that GW seems to get a lot of unwarranted flack because it seems so many gamers think of it a bit like an evil ex partner . . .

The best ones are the old ones, like when people say they only target kids but will then happily reminisce about days of yonder when they started wargaming aged 11 after seeing some friends collection of citadel miniatures and walking into their nearest GW . . .   ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on December 10, 2018, 11:48:42 PM
In other news:

Quote
The first episode of VoxCast, the official Warhammer 40,000 podcast, is here! Join Wade and sit back, relax and enjoy as he chats to Citadel Miniatures Designer and all-round hobby legend Jes Goodwin!

https://youtu.be/Pg7JUtnUT6Y
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on December 16, 2018, 12:20:06 AM
I like the Idea that omnipresent skulls are visage of Emperror face

And something christmasy from GW
https://youtu.be/pVBg07aXTNs
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 16, 2018, 02:47:37 AM
Quote from: AWu on December 16, 2018, 12:20:06 AM
I like the Idea that omnipresent skulls are visage of Emperror face

In all these years... I never even thought of that.

Wow, I feel even dumber than usual.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on December 16, 2018, 04:24:37 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on December 16, 2018, 02:47:37 AM
In all these years... I never even thought of that.

Its been mentioned a few times in the fluff. Specifically in relation to the Space Marine Chaplains. Probably easy to miss if you were not  binging on 40K fluff
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 16, 2018, 12:24:01 PM
So it seems that the new leadership are reaping the rewards of finally engaging with  the realms of social media and generally just online media.

This vid is also worth taking a look at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3os3i70nAU

I welcome this to be honest. In the past GW have relied heavily upon word of mouth but I have really enjoyed the various painting tutorials - especially for some of the technical paints.

It's bringing a sort of fresher feel with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: matthais-mouse on December 16, 2018, 04:02:03 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on December 16, 2018, 12:24:01 PM
So it seems that the new leadership are reaping the rewards of finally engaging with  the realms of social media and generally just online media.

This vid is also worth taking a look at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3os3i70nAU

I welcome this to be honest. In the past GW have relied heavily upon word of mouth but I have really enjoyed the various painting tutorials - especially for some of the technical paints.

It's bringing a sort of fresher feel with it.

I do enjoy most of their videos and glad they have gone down this route, I also found this one quite fun too...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVBg07aXTNs
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on December 17, 2018, 06:05:46 PM
Dont know how deep story viable Space Marines will be but GW is returning to film genre.
I couldnt stand their last attempt but it had its fans.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/17/an-animated-series-from-the-far-future-yeah-it-isgw-homepage-post-1/?fbclid=IwAR0XLBu5T-nFUhn3IO_jSeBORbvjqTWMB5ObZDcOF1sIC-RO3GBc2ZE7H_U

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Angels0fDeath-Dec17-Art1en.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 18, 2018, 06:40:24 AM
SPEHSS MAHREENS!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on December 18, 2018, 07:01:48 AM
#atleastitsnotchaos comes to mind?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 18, 2018, 06:13:12 PM
Are they Space Marines or Primaris, there is quite a bit of difference.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on December 18, 2018, 10:35:14 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on December 18, 2018, 06:13:12 PM
Are they Space Marines or Primaris, there is quite a bit of difference.
Yes. About 1' of difference.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on December 19, 2018, 01:26:52 AM
Quote from: AWu on December 17, 2018, 06:05:46 PM
Dont know how deep story viable Space Marines will be but GW is returning to film genre.
I couldnt stand their last attempt but it had its fans.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/17/an-animated-series-from-the-far-future-yeah-it-isgw-homepage-post-1/?fbclid=IwAR0XLBu5T-nFUhn3IO_jSeBORbvjqTWMB5ObZDcOF1sIC-RO3GBc2ZE7H_U

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Angels0fDeath-Dec17-Art1en.jpg)

You should definitely check the Youtube channel of the guy behind the project. Style is way better than their previous work ;)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTaGjGmcHYD2fqukCIVfjvQ
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 19, 2018, 09:13:28 AM
I got the feeling some of the shots (looking up towards the Imperator Titan for instance) were reworked directly from Helsreach.

Helsreach is pretty awesome though, and follows the book pretty closely as well.

It still has me contemplating converting and building Grimaldus' squad...

The visual style fits the characters well in more ways than one (their armour is black and white, and so is their outlook on life)  and it's certainly interesting, in a very Aha (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914) way :D

But i'd rather see a full length movie along the lines of Guardsman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bgi5STRe8E). Another fan-made short, but a darn good one. A two hour long movie made like that could finally break the chain of decidedly bad movies GW put out.

I personally have never seen Damnatus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYt3aFiheEI) (I just saw it's available these days though ;) ), and it was a shame how that was blocked by GW at such a late stage. If I recall correctly, it was finished, the creators were invited to Nottingham for a screening at GW behind closed doors, and after the end credits rolled, they were told that it was great, but GW would never allow it to be released, over the sound of marching lawyers in the background.

But apparently, it was not bad (certainly better than anything GW ever made or sanctioned; anyone remember Inquisitor? lol ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on December 19, 2018, 04:39:40 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on December 19, 2018, 09:13:28 AM
I got the feeling some of the shots (looking up towards the Imperator Titan for instance) were reworked directly from Helsreach.

Helsreach is pretty awesome though, and follows the book pretty closely as well.

It still has me contemplating converting and building Grimaldus' squad...

The visual style fits the characters well in more ways than one (their armour is black and white, and so is their outlook on life)  and it's certainly interesting, in a very Aha (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914) way :D

But i'd rather see a full length movie along the lines of Guardsman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bgi5STRe8E). Another fan-made short, but a darn good one. A two hour long movie made like that could finally break the chain of decidedly bad movies GW put out...


Just a note, Guardsman is made by the same guy that makes Helsreach ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 19, 2018, 04:49:43 PM
 lol

Well, that explains that then...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 19, 2018, 06:33:51 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on December 18, 2018, 10:35:14 PM
Yes. About 1' of difference.

There's more to it than that fluff wise. They don't have the same indoctrination to the chapters as they haven't come the same route. Many of them are not veterans of many campaigns either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on December 20, 2018, 06:33:13 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on December 19, 2018, 06:33:51 PM
There's more to it than that fluff wise. They don't have the same indoctrination to the chapters as they haven't come the same route. Many of them are not veterans of many campaigns either.
They have fluff? ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 20, 2018, 08:57:30 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on December 20, 2018, 06:33:13 AM
They have fluff? ???

Yes, but it's all Easy-to-Build...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on December 20, 2018, 10:39:50 AM
So I made the mistake of going into my local GW last week (On my Birthday no less heh) with the other half. So while idly chatting for a bit with the staff the other half spots the Nighthaunt figure range and asks what they are and how she now wants some.

Her interest in this hobby comes and goes but she loves all the Horror tropes.

So the oher day I went and bought her some bits for her Xmas pressie.

This can either go 1 of 2 ways:

1 - She throws the figures at me annoyed and I get a new army along with a bump on my head.

Or

2 - I'm going to be forever skint as she'll will want more and more of the range.

Places your bets here.

Edit: Either way I'll be having to paint the buggers lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 20, 2018, 11:29:42 AM
Quote from: Daeothar on December 20, 2018, 08:57:30 AM
Yes, but it's all Easy-to-Build...

And BIGGER!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 20, 2018, 11:42:57 AM
And more accessible!!!

OH THE HORROR!! ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 20, 2018, 09:05:58 PM
Quote from: Chico on December 20, 2018, 10:39:50 AM
Her interest in this hobby comes and goes but she loves all the Horror tropes.

Who doesn't? It's a great range - and the cheapest way to get the miniatures gets you an army too (YMMV).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 21, 2018, 04:05:27 AM
I haven't had much interest in Fantasy Battle since 1992, up until the new undead that is. I think they're pretty damn awesome.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 21, 2018, 05:05:43 AM
I've just developed an interest for the Daemons and Beastmen. Better put up a wanted notice here soon I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on December 24, 2018, 10:38:32 AM
Not sure if this has been noted elsewhere, but the 40K Conquest partwork for this week has the Munitorium Container.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YzOp883AlHw/XCO3niH2xeI/AAAAAAAAEhU/DaQfQ2-iQGYMgDKo3uJ3fujaioVYODDbwCLcBGAs/s1600/munitorumcontainer1.png)
Certainly cheaper than buying the box set from GW, and about the same as some online vendors.

If there are any left....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 24, 2018, 11:26:24 AM
That is a big IF :D

White Dwarf is getting an overhaul...again but it looks like Kroot Kill Team rules are coming.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 24, 2018, 11:51:18 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on December 21, 2018, 04:05:27 AM
I haven't had much interest in Fantasy Battle since 1992, up until the new undead that is. I think they're pretty damn awesome.

I have to agree about the undead.
In fact, I have some.....
 :o

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on December 24, 2018, 11:52:55 PM
Quote from: Mason on December 24, 2018, 11:51:18 AM
I have to agree about the undead.
In fact, I have some.....
 :o

Had a look for the first time in a few years - what with undead being my first love and all - and I agree, they are very tasty. Bit busy, but that’s a given and easily fixable.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 25, 2018, 02:33:03 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 24, 2018, 11:26:24 AM
but it looks like Kroot Kill Team rules are coming.

W00t!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 25, 2018, 07:34:18 AM
Cool. Just bought me some a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on December 25, 2018, 08:51:53 PM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=2512876101+2950365987
 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=2512876101+2950365987)
£15 for individual troop models?
GW wake the F**K up you pathetic tools.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 25, 2018, 09:19:38 PM
Yeah, I know I normally defend them when people say the normal stuff is too much. This is just ridiculous. It's literally just a special weapon infantryman.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 25, 2018, 09:50:57 PM
Funnier still when you see that one of the 15 pound (or $50 NZ ::) ) is included in the 20 pound squad of 5.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on December 25, 2018, 11:10:32 PM
This literally is a case of dartboard pricing.
Not that it matters.
At this time of year everyone is broke and would struggle to pay bills never mind anything else.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 26, 2018, 10:53:25 AM
Sold 2 squads for £40 in November .An I thought I was being cheeky then didn’t have any command figures though  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on December 26, 2018, 05:08:24 PM
Last Christmas I bought me a squad and a command squad  ( i had to  lol )

Happy I did despite them stil;l being silver.
I would like to get  more but its this or something Slaaneshy and I lack only heavy weapons of less use for ma Inquisimunda purposes. But I would like sergeants but not for 15 pounds each..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on December 26, 2018, 05:30:58 PM
On a more positive note the new AoS Grot Faction ''Gloomspite Gitz'' seem rather good

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/26/26th-dec-gloomspite-gitz-revealedgw-homepage-post-1/

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/GloomspiteGitzRevealed-Dec26-SquigHoppers-Content.jpg)

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/GloomspiteGitzRevealed-Dec26-SquigHerd-Content.jpg)

More stuff to come and oh almost forgot the the dice....

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1Qa7cZvgcL8/XCOuo7ARFyI/AAAAAAABi34/QWBurKticgALdQXw9XTzCAzB8crpkrvBwCLcBGAs/s1600/nightgobbbie%2Bdice.PNG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 26, 2018, 06:45:49 PM
I like what I have seen so far...I even kinda like the metal noses (well...dislike them less) given the focus on the 'Bad Moon'. I shudder to think how many grots you'd need for a force though. I guess Skirmish might be the answer there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 26, 2018, 07:01:48 PM
If there's one subject that does well with excess, lunacy and cartoonish exaggeration, it's Gobbo squig hoppers. I'd say they capture the spirit nicely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on December 26, 2018, 07:47:46 PM
Rather pleasantly surprised by these Gobbos, expected them to be a lot more 'funny' in a bit of a kid friendly way like some of the Nurgle stuff. Instead, they're weird but very much malicious too. Not bad, not bad at all.

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/GloomspiteGitzRevealed-Dec26-Skragrott-Content.jpg)


Some of the dice designs of late are a bit much though, having two pictured sides (1 and 6) is difficult enough, but searching for the particular pattern of irregularly sized pips, nah.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 27, 2018, 11:41:20 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on December 26, 2018, 07:47:46 PM
Some of the dice designs of late are a bit much though, having two pictured sides (1 and 6) is difficult enough, but searching for the particular pattern of irregularly sized pips, nah.

Surely the lumps and bumps adversely affect the way the dice fall, preventing an even chance on each side?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on December 27, 2018, 12:26:23 PM
Quote from: Cubs on December 27, 2018, 11:41:20 AM
Surely the lumps and bumps adversely affect the way the dice fall, preventing an even chance on each side?

It would be pretty typical for a goblin to cheat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on December 27, 2018, 01:52:00 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on December 24, 2018, 10:38:32 AM
Not sure if this has been noted elsewhere, but the 40K Conquest partwork for this week has the Munitorium Container.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YzOp883AlHw/XCO3niH2xeI/AAAAAAAAEhU/DaQfQ2-iQGYMgDKo3uJ3fujaioVYODDbwCLcBGAs/s1600/munitorumcontainer1.png)
Certainly cheaper than buying the box set from GW, and about the same as some online vendors.

If there are any left....
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 24, 2018, 11:26:24 AM
That is a big IF :D
Well I picked up another one today.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 27, 2018, 02:00:17 PM
Round my way, if the issue has a good gift then someone seems to buy them all up; some issues there are loads left and others seem to sell out in an instant.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on December 27, 2018, 02:41:56 PM
I have subscription so got this month's 4 issues. Some good stuff for quite the discount. There is a lot more terrain pieces to come which is quite cool.

Also get a lot of paints and inks for discount and many of them I didn't have.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on December 27, 2018, 07:30:23 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 27, 2018, 02:00:17 PM
Round my way, if the issue has a good gift then someone seems to buy them all up; some issues there are loads left and others seem to sell out in an instant.

This is generally good for people that need an army.

Otherwise terrain and unique models will disappear instantly as they are of interest to everyone :)

I would buy space marine taking his sword myself :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on December 27, 2018, 09:18:03 PM
 Been getting the Conquest magazine.Been good so far.Art book in the next Subscription.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 27, 2018, 10:25:45 PM
Art book isn't free though. Some people may be caught out by it. It's an additional £15, which for an art book, isn't too bad. But it's worth noting it's in addition to the subscription fee. Not only that, they can auto send you out another folder at the cost of £8 when they feel the first is getting full up.

I might well be cancelling mine soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 28, 2018, 06:13:55 AM
That does sound a little cheeky.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 28, 2018, 11:32:32 AM
I mean it is and it isn't - they have included a letter about it in the latest 'drop' but you have to contact them to opt out.

Now, I have called them a couple of times just to clarify when to expect the delivery and right at the beginning of the process. Their call center is in South Africa, and the line/connection is damned awful.

But personally if I have to call to cancel the artbook, I'll cancel the lot. Why go through the effort? Seems a bit of a risky move to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 28, 2018, 02:47:33 PM
Yeah, still seems a bit cheeky. I have heard that some customers have had difficulty cancelling their subscription though internet rumour always has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

It does sound risky but presumably they have done this kinda thing before and it works, whether that's through customer lethargy or desire I don't know.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on December 28, 2018, 03:13:56 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on December 28, 2018, 11:32:32 AM
Now, I have called them a couple of times just to clarify when to expect the delivery and right at the beginning of the process. Their call center is in South Africa, and the line/connection is damned awful.

Is it GW or the magazine distributor that you are contacting?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: waitwhat on December 28, 2018, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 28, 2018, 02:47:33 PM
Yeah, still seems a bit cheeky. I have heard that some customers have had difficulty cancelling their subscription though internet rumour always has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Not great difficulty but I had an awkward call centre call which seemed to work but then a letter a few weeks later demanding direct debit info for the next batch - an email sorted that out but one has to worry about the internal mechanisms.

I can only imagine the publisher is taking a huge hit on this one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 28, 2018, 11:58:03 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on December 28, 2018, 03:13:56 PM
Is it GW or the magazine distributor that you are contacting?

As I am in the UK, GW is in the same country as me.

This is all the Hachette who publish the mags.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 04, 2019, 03:24:16 PM
Well bad news upon the horizon which means should you be planning to spend money on GW sets and/or paints, do so in the next month!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/04/a-quick-heads-up/#utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=WHTV&utm_content=WHTVHeadsupJan4
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 05, 2019, 09:52:22 AM
Some rather nice new genestealer cultists announced - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/05/breaking-news-new-models-new-expansions-and-exclusive-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/

I do wonder what size the quad bike is going to be ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 05, 2019, 11:46:38 AM
I'm rather glad to hear they are at last doing something with Skaven and the new figure preview looks amazing:

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/NYOpendayReveals-Jan5-CarrionEmpireWarlock10rjvf.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on January 05, 2019, 11:55:49 AM
 The new Genestealer cultists look great.The Gunslinger one is in a new Killteam set.They even mention that they have not shown all of the GSC new pieces.Looking forward to seeing what else they have to release.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 05, 2019, 04:07:23 PM
Skaven dude is great. I fear that he will be in large box SKaven vs Ghouls as an exclusive though..

Other news are just great. Plastic Ambots ?
And such great models ?
I am not fan of Ambot ingame (Infiltrating giant monster tend to be major threat in a game making rest of the gang almost useless and making him auto include for the points) but I love the mini and I will get me pair.
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49701173_10156915020858236_8147972218039566336_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=873643fdf20218485a6456616f383c52&oe=5CBEA1A4)


Ambull for Blackstone is beauty too. I would prefer him without larvae falling but I guess its season for lying eggs and hatching offspring for him.
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49898866_10156915021583236_858071243822202880_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=518cfb6964bc2a8c952930821e8e6a9f&oe=5CC5528D)

I love Genecuklt lady and guy in long robes , assasin is great too. But I dont see them in my gene cult.
Chick will be Slaaneshian psyker, and the robed guy shouts - Inquisition to me :>

Genesteale with no name I am pissed off he wont be stand alone but I willwait for the pricetag attached. I wanted to buy hybrids he is with anyway.
But most surprising is this great fatty tech adept. I love him!
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/NYOpendayReveals-Jan5-KT-ThetaAquistusTechpriest50ef.jpg)

Again packed with unit but I am almost out of my sicarian legs and clawed hands so I will probably have reasons to get him.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on January 05, 2019, 07:31:56 PM
Quote from: Chico on January 05, 2019, 11:46:38 AM
I'm rather glad to hear they are at last doing something with Skaven and the new figure preview looks amazing:

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/NYOpendayReveals-Jan5-CarrionEmpireWarlock10rjvf.jpg)

Bashing out a power chord, teaching those Stormcast the true meaning of fuzz and wah-wah... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 05, 2019, 09:03:31 PM
That 3 armed gunslinger needs a Stetson on it for a frontier style  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on January 05, 2019, 10:06:38 PM
I actually wish the female Magus had been overweight. Sort of like a nod to the old metal patriarch miniature.

But I suppose skinny and tits sells miniatures and requires less thought...like skinny bimbo eldar snipers.
 :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 06, 2019, 03:39:58 AM
Id echo that. Great idea
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 06, 2019, 08:35:09 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on January 05, 2019, 10:06:38 PM
I actually wish the female Magus had been overweight. Sort of like a nod to the old metal patriarch miniature.

But I suppose skinny and tits sells miniatures and requires less thought...like skinny bimbo eldar snipers.
 :?

What? That kinda makes no sense.

You wanted a magus to not look like a magus and because its not your claiming its because sex sells? Apart from the general theme of gsc being sleek and stealthy.

I really like the model. Not boobs out overly sexualised like some minis out there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on January 06, 2019, 08:42:34 AM
I missed this beautiful Blood Bowl team:
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120907001_ChampionsofDeathTeam01.jpg)

And it has everything you need in the one box!

Source:
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/BB-Champions-Of-Death-Team-2018
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 06, 2019, 01:30:24 PM
Well. Its complete if you convert 2 skeletons to lacking pair of ghouls. But I agree this is hgreat set and almost playable from the box (I got it from my lovely wife for xmas :P

Skeletons are easy fix. Ghouls are quite skinny so greenstuffing bones with layer of skin from gs should be easy.


Only truly out of the box set are the Dwarves IIRC
(and Dark Elves are the worst)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on January 06, 2019, 01:51:22 PM
I told myself that this would be the year to stop buying stuff that would just join the unpainted pile. I'm wavering already: all the Genestealer Cult stuff, the Ambots, that Mechanicus guy!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 06, 2019, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: AWu on January 06, 2019, 01:30:24 PM
Well. Its complete if you convert 2 skeletons to lacking pair of ghouls.

It has two Ghouls.

- 2 Mummies
- 2 Wights
- 2 Ghouls
- 4 Zombies
- 4 Skeletons
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 06, 2019, 03:34:56 PM
The larvae spewing all over the Ambull epitomises the modern GW trend to just festoon models in detail for the sake of it. In this instance it takes away from an otherwise amazing re-imagining of a classic monster.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on January 06, 2019, 07:12:15 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 06, 2019, 08:35:09 AM
What? That kinda makes no sense.

You wanted a magus to not look like a magus
That's not what I said though.
Quote from: JamesValentine on January 05, 2019, 10:06:38 PM
I actually wish the female Magus had been overweight. Sort of like a nod to the old metal patriarch miniature.

But I suppose skinny and tits sells miniatures and requires less thought...like skinny bimbo eldar snipers.
 :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 06, 2019, 09:57:18 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on January 06, 2019, 03:00:18 PM
It has two Ghouls.

- 2 Mummies
- 2 Wights
- 2 Ghouls
- 4 Zombies
- 4 Skeletons

Yes but you want 4 ghouls probably.
There were nothing stoping them with adding those instead of skellies but they decided not to :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 06, 2019, 10:57:34 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on January 06, 2019, 07:12:15 PM
That's not what I said though.

It is sorta. The old patriarch model is a) old, b) a patriarch and therefore male. There is a male magus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on January 07, 2019, 08:45:54 PM
Quote from: AWu on January 06, 2019, 09:57:18 PM
Yes but you want 4 ghouls probably.
There were nothing stoping them with adding those instead of skellies but they decided not ot :(
You want 4 ghouls eventually but I think the undead box is reasonable.

I have heavily criticised the GW range in the past but have now received a Nurgle team. The only reasonable way to get this team right appears to be to get an entire additional box and sell the surplus bloaters. The FW booster is bound to include only one beastman if it ever comes out. I am sure GW know exactly what they're doing and I'm sure it works for them. I just hope it works for me...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on January 15, 2019, 11:45:08 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 06, 2019, 10:57:34 PM
It is sorta. The old patriarch model is a) old, b) a patriarch and therefore male. There is a male magus.
That's not.....
Forget it...I'm tired of banging heads on walla with 40k fans
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on January 16, 2019, 12:41:53 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine
That's not.....
Forget it...I'm tired of banging heads on walla with 40k fans

And yet here you are on a thread explicitly about Games Workshop and therefore 40k.

Maybe it's just me but if I didn't want to *bang heads" with 40k fans I think I'd steer clear of 40k/GW threads.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 16, 2019, 06:26:55 PM
And maybe not bring 'attractiveness/sex' into it?

Quote
But I suppose skinny and tits sells miniatures and requires less thought...like skinny bimbo eldar snipers.

Comments like that really wont enhance any position you are trying to make.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on January 16, 2019, 06:47:31 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 16, 2019, 06:26:55 PM
And maybe not bring 'attractiveness/sex' into it?

Comments like that really wont enhance any position you are trying to make.
I'm not the one who sculpted the pin ups porn stars.  So I didn't bring it into it
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on January 16, 2019, 07:04:29 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on January 16, 2019, 06:47:31 PM
I'm not the one who sculpted the pin ups porn stars.  So I didn't bring it into it

I'm with you on the pin ups but that's a Magus. The Patriarch was a Genestealer patriarch, so why would the female magus model hark back to the Patriarch? The old male magus was also skinny.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 16, 2019, 09:48:08 PM
Agreed Sir Theo.

But I'd add that we already have a Patriach and male Magus models - and it seemed odd to me to make this remark about the female magus.

Patriarch:
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120117001_Broodcoven05.jpg)

Magus:
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120117001_Broodcoven06.jpg)

The comment about pin-ups is misplaced. The female magus clearly isn't a 'pin-up'. GW largely don't do pin-ups either.

So far as I can tell the new female magus fits all of the aesthetics of the existing cultist range. Nothing any different apart from being female.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 16, 2019, 10:00:16 PM
The stance of the Patriarch seems really off...why would a creature tuck its tail between its legs? I know dogs do it but thats a submissive gesture not something they'd do on the hunt. It looks very unnatural and phallic. Tails are primarily for balance so it should be stuck out back, especially when balancing on the end of a pipe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on January 16, 2019, 10:07:00 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 16, 2019, 10:00:16 PM
The stance of the Patriarch seems really off...why would a creature tuck its tail between its legs? I know dogs do it but thats a submissive gesture not something they'd do on the hunt. It looks very unnatural and phallic. Tails are primarily for balance so it should be stuck out back, especially when balancing on the end of a pipe.

It looks to have a Space Marine helmet in its hand so I'm kind of getting the impression it's plucking the thing off its tail after a successful kill.
Or maybe it's impaling the helmet there to show off to everyone or make a puppet act to fool any remaining marines into a trap.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on January 16, 2019, 11:13:20 PM
Obviously overweight characters is too much of a stretch for some to imagine.

Forget it. Let's just stick to tits shall we. That appeals to today's mentality
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 16, 2019, 11:16:27 PM
Yeah, I would say given that stealers were influenced by xenomorphs from Alien, it is probably likely to be what Fiona has said. To be fair though,

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60010199010_DeathstormENG03.jpg)

The broodlord's aren't that far away and could be converted to be more alike quite simply I think.

The only other reasoning would be that the tail is connected to the pipe on the model as if to support more weight that way? Would still be a bit odd.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 16, 2019, 11:19:35 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on January 16, 2019, 11:13:20 PM
Obviously overweight characters is too much of a stretch for some to imagine.

Forget it. Let's just stick to tits shall we. That appeals to today's mentality

If you had just said that you would have liked to see more variation in body shapes in sculpts in general I would probably agree with you. Hasslefree are one of the few companies I know of that have that kind of coverage in their range.

However, as with this time, you just have to bring up physical attributes with sexualised terms which makes it sound a lot like you want miniatures of women YOU find attractive. Tbh it's more than a bit odd at this point that you keep on with that line of argument.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on January 16, 2019, 11:26:09 PM
I really don't give a shit any more
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on January 17, 2019, 01:11:16 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 16, 2019, 10:00:16 PM
The stance of the Patriarch seems really off...why would a creature tuck its tail between its legs? I know dogs do it but thats a submissive gesture not something they'd do on the hunt. It looks very unnatural and phallic. Tails are primarily for balance so it should be stuck out back, especially when balancing on the end of a pipe.

It was sculpted that way to mimic the shape of the crescent genestealer cult symbol, like the ones hanging off the bottom of the Magos’ robe
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 17, 2019, 07:36:31 AM
Good points on the pose of the Patriarch but it still looks really awkward...as mcfonz said I think I'd convert the Broodlord, he looks much more menacing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on January 17, 2019, 08:14:05 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on January 16, 2019, 11:13:20 PM
Obviously overweight characters is too much of a stretch for some to imagine.

Forget it. Let's just stick to tits shall we. That appeals to today's mentality

You seem to be making an issue of something that no-one, other than you, has said. Maybe calm down eh?

I liked the old Patriarchs. And there was a reason they were fat. The new ones are just a larger Genestealer. The idea that the Patriarchs got more bloated and also more cunning, and also more human as the cult spread. I liked that.

I haven't really been interested in starting a new 40k army but I have a few of the old GSC models (including 'medallion man' Disco Patriatch) and I'd be quite tempted...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 17, 2019, 08:28:17 AM
I'd like a fat magus, male or female. It really speaks of the genestealer cult where the brood brothers think the hybrids are almost godlike (while the patriarch is). Surely they would offer food to this guy or girl, time for a bit of gluttony? If I had that Ogre, Greasus Goldtooth, he would make a great starting point for a fat Magus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 17, 2019, 08:32:38 AM
beefcake that sounds like an awesome conversion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 17, 2019, 09:02:52 AM
Probably more effort than it is worth. lying on Space marine helmets instead of gems. Get rid of the beard... lots of work. I'll never do it though. (not only because I don't have the mini)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on January 17, 2019, 09:58:55 AM
Quote from: beefcake on January 17, 2019, 09:02:52 AM
Probably more effort than it is worth. lying on Space marine helmets instead of gems. Get rid of the beard... lots of work. I'll never do it though. (not only because I don't have the mini)

You'd probably need to do something about the gobbos underneath him too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 17, 2019, 11:32:47 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on January 17, 2019, 08:14:05 AM
You seem to be making an issue of something that no-one, other than you, has said. Maybe calm down eh?

I liked the old Patriarchs. And there was a reason they were fat. The new ones are just a larger Genestealer. The idea that the Patriarchs got more bloated and also more cunning, and also more human as the cult spread. I liked that.

I haven't really been interested in starting a new 40k army but I have a few of the old GSC models (including 'medallion man' Disco Patriatch) and I'd be quite tempted...

Yeah, I suspect that they wanted a more uniformed look these days. If I'm honest, I prefer the new look. I have the new Patriarch and don't mind the pose so much. At least it is more threatening than the old seated one in my eyes/mind.

I don't think Magus' would be over fed either. They are meant to be super intelligent rather than greedy and gluttonous. Remember, stealers and nids are space critters. Overweight/unhealthy critters don't make for good assets for the hive mind and are more likely to be consumed by them...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 17, 2019, 11:58:19 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 17, 2019, 11:32:47 PM
Overweight/unhealthy critters don't make for good assets for the hive mind and are more likely to be consumed by them...
Well they are going to be consumed anyway  lol
I guess I kind of like the idea of them being a bit like how Baron Harkonnen was represented in the Dune movie. In charge and prone to excess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 18, 2019, 06:12:47 AM
A large patriarch also works as in the civilian environments in which the cult works no one is likely to be over fed except the rich and powerful so being large is symbolic of status. I guess as well they were trying to invoke the Godfather so the Patriarch is behind the scenes pulling the strings...you better hope he doesn't step down from his throne cos when he does the planet is going down!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 18, 2019, 09:20:30 AM
Quote from: beefcake on January 17, 2019, 08:28:17 AM
.... If I had that Ogre, Greasus Goldtooth, he would make a great starting point for a fat Magus.

That is a bloody good idea!
I have the Ogre Paymaster figure somewhere and he would work pretty damn well as a basis for a Fat-Pat in my Cult with that coat of his.
It might just happen, if I can find him, of course....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on January 18, 2019, 11:29:58 AM
That fat seated Patriarch miniature was very deceptive, as I recall from Space Hulk he could still  attack with full Patriarch melee skill so any Terminators making the mistake of straying into melee range got to meet their Emperor very, very quickly.

Not that I ever made that mistake of course...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MachinaMandala on January 18, 2019, 12:27:34 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/197493458460475392/535794242191360000/image0-29.png)

 >:( lol o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on January 18, 2019, 12:45:03 PM
I think I just got a hernia. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on January 18, 2019, 12:59:55 PM
Pretty sure I'd have just walked away if I was supposed to be his opponent
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 18, 2019, 03:10:15 PM
I did once play against someone who had an army of gaunts and for each massive unit he would stand a few up at the front and just push the rest up behind in a big pile...needless to say I didn't play against him again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 18, 2019, 03:53:47 PM
Every time I wonder if I should get back into 40K because of the nice models … I shall think of that table.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 18, 2019, 04:09:41 PM
It is why I don't like to play large games.

As things stand with 40k though, you may as well use movement trays these days as there are not template weapons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on January 18, 2019, 04:22:38 PM
What about line of sight?  Is that not a concept anymore?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on January 18, 2019, 06:24:14 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 18, 2019, 04:09:41 PM
It is why I don't like to play large games.

As things stand with 40k though, you may as well use movement trays these days as there are not template weapons.
A multi-melta with no template?! Heresy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on January 18, 2019, 11:23:55 PM
What's worse is that I bet hundreds of 40k players would defend such pathetic players
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 19, 2019, 01:51:40 AM
Sorry. I've got to come to his defense. He obviously hasn't had time to put the minis together so a bag full of loose bits is a lot less messy than just a pile of heads, arms and torsos om the table. He has also put time into them as you can see the grey paintjob perfectly camouflages them into the board.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on January 19, 2019, 06:55:26 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on January 18, 2019, 11:23:55 PM
What's worse is that I bet hundreds of 40k players would defend such pathetic players

Quote from: JamesValentine on January 15, 2019, 11:45:08 PM
..I'm tired of banging heads on walla with 40k fans

On the one hand you don't want to "bang heads" with 40k players, on the other you're happy making sweeping unsubstantiated claims that belittle them.
How's that working out for you?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 19, 2019, 08:07:01 AM
well, they did at least get a game in.

Seriously though, my only concern really, are those GW jiffy bags?

I mean ok, in store casual game but they look like some sort of generic sandwich jiffy bags, no skulz or spikes printed on them anywhere...or even logo.

Possible new product to consider? Get your bits  box in play on the table in flexible terrain hugging storage media?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 19, 2019, 08:22:21 AM
Quote from: TWD on January 19, 2019, 06:55:26 AM
On the one hand you don't want to "bang heads" with 40k players, on the other you're happy making sweeping unsubstantiated claims that belittle them.
How's that working out for you?
Let's not start things up again please. It doesn't take much to be civil.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on January 19, 2019, 08:27:44 AM
Quote from: beefcake on January 19, 2019, 08:22:21 AM
Let's not start things up again please. It doesn't take much to be civil.

This.

Please don’t take digs at other members even if you disagree with what they say. It doesn’t get anyone anywhere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on January 19, 2019, 09:18:43 AM
I've been perfectly civil and helpful.

One of our fellow members is finding he's getting into arguments that cause him distress and I've attempted to highlight, using his own words, how this may be a problem of his own making.

Please accept my sincere and profuse apologies for anyone upset by my msplaced altruism.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 20, 2019, 09:30:05 PM
If anyone still is interested and missed it

Genestealer with No name will be released next week
Unfortunately with box of Hybrids so it wont be cheap

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/NYOpendayReveals-Jan5-KTStarnsDisciples21nhvfhs.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Suber on January 20, 2019, 10:24:24 PM
Quote from: MachinaMandala on January 18, 2019, 12:27:34 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/197493458460475392/535794242191360000/image0-29.png)

 >:( lol o_o

[Wilhelm scream here] o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 20, 2019, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: AWu on January 20, 2019, 09:30:05 PM
If anyone still is interested and missed it

Genestealer with No name will be released next week
Unfortunately with box of Hybrids so it wont be cheap

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/NYOpendayReveals-Jan5-KTStarnsDisciples21nhvfhs.jpg)

So far the kill team boxes have actually been pretty decent value in terms of they have often been cheaper than getting the individual kits on their own. I guess we'll have to see with that one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 20, 2019, 11:41:16 PM
if you want those hybrids (I dont have them yet and they have ton of great bits here) it will be Ok
if anybody would want only Leader - probably not so cool :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 21, 2019, 11:22:52 AM
Yeah, I've been holding off some for Necromunda. I'm running a campaign and will be for the forseeable as it is my fav game. So I may well look at these to get them off the ground. Would mean I have a kill team as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on January 21, 2019, 06:51:24 PM
Except that heroin is cheaper...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/21/heroin-for-middle-class-nerds-how-warhammer-took-over-gaming-games-workshop
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 21, 2019, 07:38:22 PM
Funko Pop figures on the way - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/21/warhammer-40000-funko-pop-figuresgw-homepage-post-2/

Didn't see a price, but may pick up one or two for fun. At least they're prepainted  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on January 21, 2019, 09:17:39 PM
Quote from: TWD on January 21, 2019, 06:51:24 PM
Except that heroin is cheaper...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/21/heroin-for-middle-class-nerds-how-warhammer-took-over-gaming-games-workshop
Unlike the Grauniad to use the word 'fascist' in an article.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 22, 2019, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: TWD on January 21, 2019, 06:51:24 PM
Except that heroin is cheaper...

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/21/heroin-for-middle-class-nerds-how-warhammer-took-over-gaming-games-workshop

Quote
That’s because the second thing to know about Games Workshop is, as Gillen says, that Warhammer was what middle-class nerds did instead of heroin. It was just as expensive, and probably no better for your social life. A small squadron of space marines would cost about £20, a fortune for a 12-year-old; but a full two-player game would need almost 10 times that many units, as well as tanks, bikes and special figures – not to mention huge bipedal dreadnoughts.

I dispute this. But mainly because it wasn't my experience and this expression seems to be based upon theirs.

Back in the early '90's, it seemed a lot more affordable. And in many way's it was. Back then you could pick up a large sample of individual models for as little as £2.50 and packs of multiples for £3.99 or £4.99, my memory is a bit hazy. I just know that characters and terminators were cheap.

Now, you can use the bank of England inflation calculator to find out that £3 (it only does whole £'s) of 1993's money (when I started gaming) is now £6 in today's money. And whilst there are some characters you can buy online (direct only) for as little as that, the reality is that the equivalents are much more.

Now I am not complaining about prices. Back then, and you can look in old white dwarfs to look at this, the Norwich store was relatively new and there were probably only around 15 stores in the UK let alone the world. I think that is what makes it all the more amazing.

They talk about 40 years. But in reality GW has boomed in the latter half of that.

Still, truth is, as a 15 year old with friends who were not into it and more into football and smoking cigarettes, I actually worked out it was cheaper than smoking - which I couldn't afford if I wanted to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 22, 2019, 02:25:41 PM
Yeah I seem to remember buying Night Goblins...£4.99 for either 3 command minis or 4 warriors.

Things are definitely more expensive now from GW. Interestingly I was looking at some Kev Adams goblins the other day on the RPE site and they were £2 each...pretty much the same price once you take interest into account.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 22, 2019, 06:29:52 PM
My wife brought that article to my attention yesterday, she ran across it while scrolling away on Facebook.

I was reading a Blackstone Fortress rulebook at that moment...  lol

I'm an addict.  :'( 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on January 22, 2019, 08:46:49 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 22, 2019, 02:25:41 PM
Yeah I seem to remember buying Night Goblins...£4.99 for either 3 command minis or 4 warriors.

Things are definitely more expensive now from GW. Interestingly I was looking at some Kev Adams goblins the other day on the RPE site and they were £2 each...pretty much the same price once you take interest into account.
GW are capable of sensible pricing but I think they generally choose not to do it. It's the inconsistency that gets me. Squads, BB teams etc are usually priced ok, but then they sell single miniatures for a similar price to the squads and it looks all wrong. It's fairly easy to see how they generate such healthy profits. Their struggles of a few years ago can surely only be attributed to falling sales rather than profit margins.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 22, 2019, 09:51:52 PM
The usual excuse you get for expensive plastic characters is that the molds are very expensive and obviously players don't need as many copies of a character as they do a squad...but I dunno, a few years ago the free event mini at Salute was plastic...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 22, 2019, 11:58:18 PM
Yeah, but the thing with the free event mini's you get anywhere is that they are not free.

Free to the first 5,000 or something isn't it?

Some companies will do discounts and what not for games minis because it's advertising and product placement. So Renedra might have done a deal for that one and the sculptor may have done the same, they get the mini in the mag and in other magazines. I think Wargames Illustrated have featured them before. Especially with the painting comp of which one category is last years mini.

In either case, it's £10 entry to get one. Even 1000 people through the door is £10k. For a small sprue like that, I think that's not far off. Plus they are always selling them the year after, those that are left. And I suspect that a production run with plastics is so low we'll see them sold there for a while longer yet.

I did once look into it, but size of sprue does make a difference to the cost. At one point I think someone was offering a small sprue like that for around £8-9k. I think that was outside of the UK, maybe in EU? But when you consider GW also have to cover the cost of infrastructure as well. And we all know that retail units (eg shops) are becoming more expensive (well at least in the UK and parts of the US - and in a lot of big cities).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 23, 2019, 07:25:37 AM
True...thanks for the numbers mcfonz.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 23, 2019, 07:28:09 AM
I'm keen to get into Warhammer Underworld (or whatever it is called) How do people rate it that have played it?
I just ordered the new troll guy because I liked the mini but it comes with everything else anyway...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 23, 2019, 11:31:43 AM
Quote from: beefcake on January 23, 2019, 07:28:09 AM
I'm keen to get into Warhammer Underworld (or whatever it is called) How do people rate it that have played it?

It's good but it has a very strong CCG element to it, owning certain cards boosts your chances of winning more then correct Warband placement at times.

Though having played many a CCG/TCG throughout the years I'm used to that aspect so It's not something that's stopped me playing it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 23, 2019, 12:10:10 PM
Quote from: beefcake on January 23, 2019, 07:28:09 AM
I'm keen to get into Warhammer Underworld (or whatever it is called) How do people rate it that have played it?
I just ordered the new troll guy because I liked the mini but it comes with everything else anyway...

Its very good game but its mix of board game and ccg not traditional miniature wargame.
I played it a lot and attended some tourneys.
Great fun.
To be honest - deck of cards and how do you play them is more important than miniatures.

But its very good game in itself and you can proxy cards with printouts from the internet or just use cards in your box (it will be playable but you could struggle vs people with larger card base)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 23, 2019, 12:33:35 PM
I bought the Shadespire starter set without fully realising what the game was purely because of the size of the game. It's not really for me so I have it sitting here totally untouched bar me taking the celophane off to look at.

I also have the healing potion card and the giant card etc from the white dwarf which I can throw in with it. Let me know if you'd be interested. And as an addict, I'd just be using the funds to buy more miniatures!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on January 23, 2019, 05:57:18 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 22, 2019, 11:58:18 PM
Yeah, but the thing with the free event mini's you get anywhere is that they are not free.

Free to the first 5,000 or something isn't it?

Some companies will do discounts and what not for games minis because it's advertising and product placement. So Renedra might have done a deal for that one and the sculptor may have done the same, they get the mini in the mag and in other magazines. I think Wargames Illustrated have featured them before. Especially with the painting comp of which one category is last years mini.

In either case, it's £10 entry to get one. Even 1000 people through the door is £10k. For a small sprue like that, I think that's not far off. Plus they are always selling them the year after, those that are left. And I suspect that a production run with plastics is so low we'll see them sold there for a while longer yet.

I did once look into it, but size of sprue does make a difference to the cost. At one point I think someone was offering a small sprue like that for around £8-9k. I think that was outside of the UK, maybe in EU? But when you consider GW also have to cover the cost of infrastructure as well. And we all know that retail units (eg shops) are becoming more expensive (well at least in the UK and parts of the US - and in a lot of big cities).

yeah I've always understood that plastic sets are very expensive to produce, so are only worth doing if it's going to be a big seller.

So a successful company like Perry Miniatures (one of the biggest names in historical miniatures, but obviously NOTHING like as big as GW in the wider gaming world) can afford to bring out two or three plastic boxes a year, but they only do it for ranges they know are going to sell lots of. They aren't going to bring out a plastic set for some really obscure range with limited customer interest - it would lose them money. At least, that's the way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong.

So following that logic, a small start-up company could make a huge mistake by investing lots of money into a plastic set that doesn't sell simply due to lack of customer interest - it could ruin them.

With that in mind, I am genuinely amazed when I stop and look at the ammount of plastic sets GW sell, with new ones coming out every month. Obviously something like a plastic Space Marine tactical squad is going to be a big seller forever..... But everything they release now is plastic, isn't it??? Every obscure character they decide to make is in plastic, and it presumably costs loads to make the sprue. I mean I'm sure they do it all in-house, whereas smaller companies have Renedra and others do the plastics for them. But still..... Really is amazing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 23, 2019, 06:55:06 PM
Yup. What's even more amazing is that for the main ranges, the releases have been planned and prepared for quite some time. I think it's been published that the White Dwarf is written three months in advance. So if you consider they often cover the releases for the coming month, that's a minimum four month lead team. I think in reality they have a range ready in advance and spread out some of the releases.

The biggest issue with smaller companies doing it is going to kickstarter where people nearly always demand free bonus sprues or a discount because it is kickstarter. Then they sell so many that after the kickstarter their range has almost saturated the sales in the desired market.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 23, 2019, 08:22:15 PM
I've wondered how profitable it was for GW to make so much plastic, and some kits seem sort of insane. I mean, a 28mm Deathstrike Missle Launcher?  o_o

What I can't figure out why they haven't made dedicated sets of plastic Mark V or VI 'Beakies'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 23, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
I would love a beakie squad.

Perhaps some kits subsidise others to help make all the plastic pay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 23, 2019, 08:54:39 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on January 23, 2019, 08:22:15 PM

What I can't figure out why they haven't made dedicated sets of plastic Mark V or VI 'Beakies'.
They have! Mind you they are 30ish year old I think. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 23, 2019, 08:56:21 PM
I wasn't introduced to Rogue Trader until well into 2nd ed so I have no nostalgic pang for beakies.

I am more than happy to dig around for the helmets that haven't already been snaffled by other gaming buddies with similar ideas. Hah! Just found one on my desk, that's a start!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 23, 2019, 09:13:52 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 23, 2019, 12:33:35 PM
I bought the Shadespire starter set without fully realising what the game was purely because of the size of the game. It's not really for me so I have it sitting here totally untouched bar me taking the celophane off to look at.

I also have the healing potion card and the giant card etc from the white dwarf which I can throw in with it. Let me know if you'd be interested. And as an addict, I'd just be using the funds to buy more miniatures!  ;D
I would be interested but postage to NZ is quite expensive for something that size and also my hobby budget is shot. Thanks for the offer though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 23, 2019, 09:40:25 PM
Dang, yeah that would be a killer!

Just to ensure our desire for minis is kept on close to ceiling levels:

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/BLCelebration-Jan23-SeverinaRaine1cerg.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 23, 2019, 10:05:22 PM
Nice looking mini with a restrained level of detail...I like it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 23, 2019, 11:36:07 PM
I love non boobed breastplate. First time in ages.

And i hope they will make more of book characters!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 24, 2019, 07:56:31 AM
Now that's a good min.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on January 24, 2019, 09:14:56 AM
Pffft.  Can't be a GW mini - I only count four skulls on it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on January 24, 2019, 11:44:54 AM
Am I the only one not seeing any picture here?  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on January 24, 2019, 12:24:20 PM
I couldn't see it either, so I just quoted mcfonz's post to get:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxnf1hRX4AY0hS1.jpg
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on January 24, 2019, 12:30:52 PM
That is a very nice miniature, obviously female without having all the pieces hanging out. Well done for that.  :)

The saddo in me through, is thinking how much of a faff she must have had drawing her sabre with the scabbard on her right hip...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on January 24, 2019, 12:53:08 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on January 24, 2019, 12:24:20 PM
I couldn't see it either, so I just quoted mcfonz's post to get:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxnf1hRX4AY0hS1.jpg

Cunning move, thank you.  :D

That does look nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 24, 2019, 02:03:22 PM
Quote from: jon_1066 on January 24, 2019, 09:14:56 AM
Pffft.  Can't be a GW mini - I only count four skulls on it.

We cant see her back :P


Quote from: JollyBob on January 24, 2019, 12:30:52 PM
That is a very nice miniature, obviously female without having all the pieces hanging out. Well done for that.  :)

The saddo in me through, is thinking how much of a faff she must have had drawing her sabre with the scabbard on her right hip...

She is from EU, she had to adapt to the right side traffic :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 24, 2019, 02:09:07 PM
I've changed the source of the image too, hopefully that helps. It's not saying that she is, but I hope she's not limited edition. She's being released for the Black Library Celebration day.

I may have to get her.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 24, 2019, 04:02:21 PM
So if that wasn't enough, there is more!

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/40kGSCRidgerunner-Jan24-Ridgerunner2ivr.jpg)
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/40kGSCRidgerunner-Jan24-Mortar7ehvd.jpg)
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/40kGSCRidgerunner-Jan24-Spotter3vrs.jpg)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/24/24th-jan-genestealer-cults-preview-the-achilles-ridgerunnergw-homepage-post-4/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on January 24, 2019, 04:03:33 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 24, 2019, 04:02:21 PM
So if that wasn't enough, there is more!

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/40kGSCRidgerunner-Jan24-Ridgerunner2ivr.jpg)

 :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on January 24, 2019, 04:18:52 PM
That is rather cool  8)

A flying/skimmer conversion would be even cooler  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 24, 2019, 05:12:00 PM
Quote from: OSHIROmodels on January 24, 2019, 04:18:52 PM
That is rather cool  8)

A flying/skimmer conversion would be even cooler  8)

You know, as soon as I saw you had replied to this I wondered if you were going to have said exactly that!

I don't think it would take much at all. Whip off the wheels, add some intakes to where the front ones go maybe. Ad thrusters to the space left by removing the rear wheels and suspension. Perhaps fill in the back a bit and add some rungs to climb up the side and maybe a spoiler and some fins.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 24, 2019, 05:27:13 PM
That's quite cool...I think it'd look good orkified.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: meninobesta on January 24, 2019, 06:55:27 PM
The Genestealer kult is becomming GW's GI JOEs :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 24, 2019, 07:20:15 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 24, 2019, 05:27:13 PM
That's quite cool...I think it'd look good orkified.

But not that good like 6 orky vehicles of similar style they released in october :P

Quote from: meninobesta on January 24, 2019, 06:55:27 PM
The Genestealer kult is becomming GW's GI JOEs :D

IG aka Astra militarium lineup  pale in comparision..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 24, 2019, 07:30:32 PM
That is a nice buggy , would make great base for ash waste nomad conversion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 24, 2019, 08:02:18 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 23, 2019, 09:40:25 PM
Dang, yeah that would be a killer!

Just to ensure our desire for minis is kept on close to ceiling levels:

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/BLCelebration-Jan23-SeverinaRaine1cerg.jpg)
Wow, after all these years and so many "not-IG" versions from probably a dozen manufacturers, there's finally going to an an official GW version.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: RAD on January 24, 2019, 09:50:03 PM
Mercy! Mercy for my wallet...!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 24, 2019, 10:26:48 PM
Do the rules require a large base for vehicles now, or is that a stylistic thing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 24, 2019, 11:25:03 PM
Is it that they include them for the tournament community they're increasingly catering to*, so that there are fewer arguments of where to measure to?

*not to suggest they're doing so exclusively, just perhaps being as inclusive as possible
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 24, 2019, 11:56:23 PM
Whilst I think you may be onto something in terms of measuring I don't think you could be further from the truth in terms of 'increasingly cater' to the tournament community.

In reality, GW has taken large steps away from that community in recent years. The emphasis in the rule book for 40k is on narrative play rather than competitive play and this is the same for AoS. I know for a fact our local GW has made a conscious decision to move away from encouraging anything like that in store, and there is no real surprise why.

That community is a minority amongst hobbyists these days and reality is that most of the people you play against are just wanting a bit of fun, it is a game after all, and something to socialise over.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 25, 2019, 07:53:11 AM
Well I certainly don't go for all that tournament stuff and am very much a narratively driven player. However, tournament players don't seem like the minority, every tabletop game seems to end up being talked about in tournament terms at our local game shop anyway where conversations about points, optimum lists etc are often heard.

When I say GW are increasingly catering to that community, it is in the sense that they actually acknowledge that style of play. Matched play, articles and discussions thereof, Shadespire is essentially a competitive tournament style game, and there's a tournament version of Kill Team on the way. It's not a bad thing, but it certainly is more than they used to do for the tournament players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 25, 2019, 08:00:44 AM
It'd be good to see some actual stats on the percentage of tournament players, 40k players, AoS players and all that. I hear lots of opinions being expressed all over the net but it'd be good to see something more reliable. Just out of interest really.

I haven't played a GW game in nearly 5 years, excluding HeroQuest at home with the kids, so I have no idea how many are playing what games.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 25, 2019, 08:24:10 AM
Heroquest doesn't count, let's just say it's milton Bradley, ;) so you're safe there.
I think vehicles such as this look better based as it pops the height up a little so when a based mini is beside it things look okay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on January 25, 2019, 12:07:41 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 24, 2019, 02:09:07 PM
It's not saying that she is, but I hope she's not limited edition. She's being released for the Black Library Celebration day.

A post from GW Nottingham said she would only be in-store during the Black Library celebration weekend. That doesn't mean much re. whether she'll be online for general release, though...

Not sure about that cults vehicle. In some shots I've seen it looks like a converted kids' toy (yes I know, all GW stuff is technically a toy  lol)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 25, 2019, 12:59:17 PM
Quote from: Gibby on January 25, 2019, 07:53:11 AM
Well I certainly don't go for all that tournament stuff and am very much a narratively driven player. However, tournament players don't seem like the minority, every tabletop game seems to end up being talked about in tournament terms at our local game shop anyway where conversations about points, optimum lists etc are often heard.

When I say GW are increasingly catering to that community, it is in the sense that they actually acknowledge that style of play. Matched play, articles and discussions thereof, Shadespire is essentially a competitive tournament style game, and there's a tournament version of Kill Team on the way. It's not a bad thing, but it certainly is more than they used to do for the tournament players.

The thing is, 'increasingly' would suggest that they are catering for that player more. I actually think the evidence is that it is less than they have done in the past. In fact, part of moving away from WHFB was that it was no longer selling well because they were tied down to a system that was reinventing the wheel purely for those tournament players.

Their focus completely shifted for AoS and yes, whilst they have introduced the likes of matched play etc, I think that alone speaks volumes. They 'introduced' it. It wasn't their priority straight out of the box. Now, the cynical part of me would say this could well be because at least initially they needed to sell the new world, the new fluff, because the settings have always been what really helps players to buy into their products and if they went in straight away with just pure competitive play I am sure it would have flopped hard. But then putting my balanced hat back on, I would say that also perhaps is indicative of their audience now. If they are concerned more about selling the universe than just selling to tournament players then guess where the money is at?

Also, moving those sorts of players out of the stores seems to have helped make GW a much more user friendly experience for all. And whilst I will admit that some of what I am saying is anecdotal and perhaps only symptomatic of the area I live in (Norwich, Norfolk), I can vividly remember a time when there were far more regional tournaments being arranged for 40k and WHFB, some official that sort of acted as a way into the grand tournament, others more independently organised. Talking of the grand tournament, do they still have those? They used to feature a write up of the finals in the White Dwarf in years gone by and look at the likes of the awards for best painted army etc.

As for Underworlds - I think it was more about a product for a certain market. It mixes CCG with models, with the CCG bit being probably more important than the models. For years GW licensed out stuff to the likes of FFG and I think with the new CEO they've realised that if they bring it in house, it's more valuable than the license they got. But also the gaming world has changed. They want to encourage people in from various directions. Many moons ago their official line was computer games are the biggest rival to their products. Now you have a boom in tabletop gaming with boardgames and wargames often meeting somewhere between the two zones of interest. Zombicide etc. I would not be at all surprised to see more of this kind of thing from them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 27, 2019, 02:17:46 PM
Quote from: boneio on January 25, 2019, 12:07:41 PM
A post from GW Nottingham said she would only be in-store during the Black Library celebration weekend. That doesn't mean much re. whether she'll be online for general release, though...

Yeah, like they did with their Canoness, that later did become available again by direct order... Or their recent offerings of a Nightgaunt and a Primaris commander, only at a special day. Bought mine a couple of days later from the back of the local GW-store.
So, we can safely say, there is limited and there is GW-limited  ;D. Nevertheless, if you want to be sure to get her, get her on the day itself. I know I will, it's a great miniature.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on January 28, 2019, 07:47:43 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/28/28th-jan-sanguinius-the-model-revealedfw-homepage-post-1/

Poor pose (especially legs)
Poor facial sculpt (but typical for FW)
Very unimpressive wings  (seriously Celestine looks better)
Very off putting base.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on January 28, 2019, 10:28:50 PM
Not my cup of tea but it a great figure, the face and pose is great very reminiscent of the art in the Sistine  chapel
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 28, 2019, 10:35:03 PM
Yeah not a fan of it, something just seems off about it.

I don't know why but alot of the newer HH stuff isn't doing it for me like the flying Custards, Alpha Legion Termies and all the Space Wolves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 28, 2019, 11:29:30 PM
Yeah. I'm not a great fan of the model either. I have had a few issues with some of the bases before in that they are huge and quite often requiring more resin than the miniature themselves.

I actually understand i with this one, as the idea is to give the impression of swooping in to strike, and without using the traditional flying bases this can be difficult to do without sticking a hole in the model somewhere. And on this pose it would be at the feet which would be a really weak point.

I believe it says there will be a version without the base though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 28, 2019, 11:58:54 PM
I like battle poses, not action poses so I'll pass on the Primarchs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on January 29, 2019, 12:21:05 PM
It looks like the rock is stuck up his jacksie
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 29, 2019, 12:54:59 PM
Quote from: boneio on January 29, 2019, 12:21:05 PM
It looks like the rock is stuck up his jacksie

Or has been produced from it. In the future, a high fibre diet is still important.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on January 29, 2019, 01:12:27 PM
Quote from: boneio on January 29, 2019, 12:21:05 PM
It looks like the rock is stuck up his jacksie

Well that is how I enjoy playing 30k: Beer, Burger and a Bugger... ahem..  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 29, 2019, 02:38:25 PM
Colour me unimpressed but to be honest only pair I like are Alpharius and Curze.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 29, 2019, 08:40:53 PM
Piles.

So much Grim Darkness, Unending War, beset by Zenos filth, Chaos and all sorts of other problems, there's just no time to fix those things.

Even Primarchs can suffer with Haemorrhoids - just so much worse than an ordinary frail, Terran citizen.. 

But, regardless, for the Emperor!!

Lets hope its not in his Gene-seed hmm?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: twrchtrwyth on January 29, 2019, 09:51:17 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 29, 2019, 08:40:53 PM
Piles.

So much Grim Darkness, Unending War, beset by Zenos filth, Chaos and all sorts of other problems, there's just no time to fix those things.

Even Primarchs can suffer with Haemorrhoids - just so much worse than an ordinary frail, Terran citizen.. 

But, regardless, for the Emperor!!

Lets hope its not in his Gene-seed hmm?
Www, matron!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on January 31, 2019, 05:25:32 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on January 29, 2019, 08:40:53 PM
Piles.

So much Grim Darkness, Unending War, beset by Zenos filth, Chaos and all sorts of other problems, there's just no time to fix those things.

Even Primarchs can suffer with Haemorrhoids - just so much worse than an ordinary frail, Terran citizen.. 

But, regardless, for the Emperor!!

Lets hope its not in his Gene-seed hmm?
Well, if anybody has a sedentary lifestyle, it's the Emperor...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 31, 2019, 02:34:36 PM
To change a topic a little  ;)

New Bikers legs are not molded to the bike se we will be ablo to sat anything on them..
Faster Pussycats Kill kill escher bike gang is a go!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 31, 2019, 02:40:39 PM
That's a nice design change to see, certainly makes them more flexible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 31, 2019, 06:50:20 PM
I suspect it might also be because Rough Riders might see a revamp ... after all, keeping horses happy whilst floating around in space is going to be harder than bikes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 31, 2019, 10:29:26 PM
IG needs new models like desert needs the rain..

Killing old metals was  suggestion of something new (at least I hope so)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 01, 2019, 02:41:40 AM
Quote from: AWu on January 31, 2019, 02:34:36 PM
Faster Pussycats Kill kill escher bike gang is a go!

Looking forward to seeing them :)

Those 'stealer bikes and other things are going to sell like hotcakes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 01, 2019, 07:11:38 PM
It will take ages as I was hit by biggest color choice block in a long time with my Escher (my first love gang since 1996)  that I painted Goliath and played them in a campaign in 2018 and now I am finishing Orlocks and Van Saars.. with one Escher color tester looking at my with reproach :(

But it will happen one day :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 01, 2019, 07:22:46 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 01, 2019, 07:11:38 PM
It will take ages as I was hit by biggest color choice block in a long time with my Escher (my first love gang since 1996)  that I painted Goliath and played them in a campaign in 2018 and now I am finishing Orlocks and Van Saars.. with one Escher color tester looking at my with reproach :(

But it will happen one day :)
One thing I do in cases like this is take a picture of the mini (white or grey primed, if you like) and mock up different colour options in photoshop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 01, 2019, 09:15:18 PM


With gangers I have to be able to paint satisfying color combination successfully on the miniatures (this is my curse really)

Goliaths, Orlocks and Van Saar clicked after test mini (VS with second take) but I decided I dont want Eschers to wear yellow bras because my 1st edition gang is
and I am struggling with making any color scheme make me happy since :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 02, 2019, 12:44:15 PM
Some hot new Necromunda art shown

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51377812_10156978585023236_4823799648424558592_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=4c1550585d9ab550ef1edc63b2212425&oe=5CE7E350)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51168216_10156978585233236_2816401925061214208_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=8d667916182ac3500e1e4d0b48f67a2f&oe=5CE8F6B6)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51103748_10156978585643236_1495728966491701248_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=ed9faee8e93714b2036318723540d7c8&oe=5CF4F285)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51330625_10156978585918236_2727674927292350464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=1106706845df59891039410cbdd55acc&oe=5D00A5C9)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 02, 2019, 01:43:56 PM
Man I wish I had time to paint ALL the new Necromunda stuff... Oh, to be back in high school and college with no kids or real responsibilities again!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 02, 2019, 01:57:27 PM
Slaver looks good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 02, 2019, 02:11:23 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on February 02, 2019, 01:43:56 PM
Man I wish I had time to paint ALL the new Necromunda stuff... Oh, to be back in high school and college with no kids or real responsibilities again!

I understand your sentiment but I was broke then so I would only watch anyway :P

And To be honest judging from the previous reveals it will take ages to see anything from this

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51482157_2159062557447662_2793012357800919040_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=8d4d3132f4ca769d81953921fc4fab3c&oe=5CFC2CFB)


Another Squat though (unless despite what text says just Goliath baby :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 02, 2019, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 02, 2019, 02:11:23 PM
I understand your sentiment but I was broke then so I would only watch anyway :P

My golden period was when I was working two jobs between undergrad and grad school, one job supplied my hobby money. I had full fleets with all options for the main four Battlefleet Gothic factions at one point, and that was just for that game :) How I had time to game... I don't know but I did :)

I love these new reveals, very cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 02, 2019, 04:41:30 PM
Genestealer Cults stuff up for pre-order link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=1125463923+995043222)

The bikes and buggy are £32.50 for 5, which is very reasonable. To add the sniper bloke on one of the same bikes is another £22.50   o_o

Some very useful figures in the release, I can see my first GW purchases this year in the near future ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 02, 2019, 07:16:30 PM
The one with wings looks like a yeld spyrer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 02, 2019, 09:33:46 PM
It does, but it's not.

I believe they confirmed before that Spirers wouldn't be returning.

This is going to be one of the personae dramatica or whatever they call them - a character that you can hire. He's ex Van Saar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on February 02, 2019, 11:16:38 PM
Quote from: zemjw on February 02, 2019, 04:41:30 PM
To add the sniper bloke on one of the same bikes is another £22.50   o_o
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......no.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 03, 2019, 04:37:27 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on February 02, 2019, 09:33:46 PM
It does, but it's not.

I believe they confirmed before that Spirers wouldn't be returning.

This is going to be one of the personae dramatica or whatever they call them - a character that you can hire. He's ex Van Saar.
Still cool to see Spyrers in one form or another. They were over powered in the original I hear (Never played them although collected them)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on February 03, 2019, 11:00:20 AM
Quote from: beefcake on February 03, 2019, 04:37:27 AM
Still cool to see Spyrers in one form or another. They were over powered in the original I hear (Never played them although collected them)

I wouldn't say they were overpowered to such a degree that they were unbeatable but it was like playing the game on easy mode.

What was unbeatable at least in my local meta were 20-30 man Scavvies Gangs that would to avoid worrying about starvation would just buy a Scavvy at the end of the game to put in the cookpot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 03, 2019, 06:48:05 PM
How does the necromunda stuff scale with 40k , is it bigger??
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on February 03, 2019, 06:51:54 PM
OMG... this just made me happy:

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/PreOrderPreview-Feb3-SKABattletome4el.jpg)

Mixed Skaven are now back, yes-yes! Along with the new Ratty we already seen are scenery, dice and Endless Spells.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/03/pre-order-preview-carrion-empire-and-genestealer-cults/?fbclid=IwAR20Hig_U8FBkAonv1H5Nj3yplxLqd39b3viVBRGYWFdIMAwTtZqdSR5Wns)

The other previewed stuff is good too I guess... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 03, 2019, 07:38:10 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on February 03, 2019, 06:48:05 PM
How does the necromunda stuff scale with 40k , is it bigger??

Anything you want to see compared in particular? I may have an example.

If anything, proportions have changed on the Necro plastics- the heads have gotten smaller (particularly the Escher) but are more in proportion with the overall body length.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 03, 2019, 07:46:57 PM
Agree
Ask a specific question

I might show you all gangs compared to certain miniatures but I am not too recent on 40k.

gangs are quite differently sized
Van Sarar are smaller, Goliath are giant and Escher are very tall
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 03, 2019, 07:49:54 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on February 03, 2019, 07:38:10 PM
Anything you want to see compared in particular? I may have an example.

If anything, proportions have changed on the Necro plastics- the heads have gotten smaller (particularly the Escher) but are more in proportion with the overall body length.
ust wondered how it compared to imperial guard or Skitarii , I know the Goliath’s are big . But wondered about the orlocks or Cawdor .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 03, 2019, 08:12:09 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on February 03, 2019, 07:49:54 PM
ust wondered how it compared to imperial guard or Skitarii , I know the Goliath’s are big . But wondered about the orlocks or Cawdor .

I have some of all that, I'll see what I can pop together.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on February 03, 2019, 09:17:42 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on February 02, 2019, 09:33:46 PM
I believe they confirmed before that Spirers wouldn't be returning.
I think Andy mentioned in the last Twitch stream that they would be back at some point, but fairly different (as they were indeed so difficult to balance). But I wasn't paying the closest attention, so may well be wrong.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 03, 2019, 09:33:04 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on February 03, 2019, 07:49:54 PM
ust wondered how it compared to imperial guard or Skitarii , I know the Goliath’s are big . But wondered about the orlocks or Cawdor .

Fast and dirty
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/51547965_234869837465212_411607426307981312_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=f008a1d8511e0586ddfc3f083bfcd179&oe=5CF98C01)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/51431012_248170272778735_8161301202366103552_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=85c19ccc05f188344899041c6e0f6ae9&oe=5D00D513)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 03, 2019, 09:40:53 PM
Lovely thankyou  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 03, 2019, 10:25:50 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 03, 2019, 09:33:04 PM
Fast and dirty

You're a speedy devil!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on February 04, 2019, 08:28:36 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on February 02, 2019, 01:43:56 PM
Man I wish I had time to paint ALL the new Necromunda stuff... Oh, to be back in high school and college with no kids or real responsibilities again!

Amen to that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 04, 2019, 11:02:00 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on February 03, 2019, 10:25:50 PM
You're a speedy devil!

Living in miniature chaos helps  ;)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/51195350_253370872231092_2882905997536395264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=c225e2765fb129465a0d4d1581715858&oe=5CE7BFD9)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on February 04, 2019, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 04, 2019, 11:02:00 AM
Living in miniature chaos helps  ;)
Call that chaos? Ha! I'd show you real chaos.. if only I could find my camera...


In other news, from today onwards, some of the formerly-excellent-value Start Collecting boxes have gone up in price a bit. Was worried they'd become marginal savings, but it's hardly a massive change. One I checked previously had €96 worth of kits for the price of €65, which has now increased to €70 (saving 27% rather than 33%).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 05, 2019, 05:41:46 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on February 03, 2019, 09:17:42 PM
I think Andy mentioned in the last Twitch stream that they would be back at some point, but fairly different (as they were indeed so difficult to balance). But I wasn't paying the closest attention, so may well be wrong.

Both could be right to be fair. What I had heard was that they wouldn't be coming back as a gang. So that would suggest that perhaps they might be hired guns of some sort?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on February 06, 2019, 02:37:30 AM
Hired gun for brat gangs which got a mention in the new rulebook.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 06, 2019, 04:24:33 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on February 06, 2019, 02:37:30 AM
Hired gun for brat gangs which got a mention in the new rulebook.

Hmmm, I read the new book, must have missed a reference to Bratts. Do you know where that was, roughly?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 06, 2019, 02:36:06 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on February 06, 2019, 02:37:30 AM
Hired gun for brat gangs which got a mention in the new rulebook.

Cool, that actually makes total sense to me in terms of fluff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on February 06, 2019, 06:08:53 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on February 06, 2019, 04:24:33 AM
Hmmm, I read the new book, must have missed a reference to Bratts. Do you know where that was, roughly?

Sorry no, although the chaos cult rules mention a bunch of bratt gangs joining in on an uprising for the thrill of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 06, 2019, 06:46:47 PM
I'm pretty sure Bratt gangs have been mentioned before. I can see them coming back as in many ways this Necromunda is Confrontation level fluff. Stuff only sort of glimpsed in later editions of Necromunda. Like guilder contacts were mainly just called that, not specific guilds.

One of the things that is hard to balance in game play is the fluff and what people want to play. One of the old problems with Spyrer's is that they were almost too good not to play. You didn't need so many models, making them a cheaper gang, and yet they were one of the best equipped meaning they could more than hold their own. Fluff wise, a hive sector shouldn't have been awash with them . . .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 06, 2019, 08:48:55 PM
Agree.. and they had some balance problems.

Like now Venators have.
Great concept but Hive sectors are swarmed by them and they tend to be played to be Op...

its like people want to play anything that is not a house gang :)

BTW it was hinted at last seminar that Venator and cultist varieties will be fleshed out in next book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 06, 2019, 09:13:44 PM
I’m Wondering what the ratskins will be like?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 06, 2019, 09:47:23 PM
Cool.

As things stand all of the freebie gangs need updating to fit with the campaign system they have gone with in the main book. We had been playing turf war. Now it's Dominion. Dominion seems closer to the old campaign system so I'm not fussed, but I need to work out if you can just keep repeating steps in it to run the campaign for as long as you like. Obviously, as things stand you have to treat them as one of the house gangs for boons.

I'm currently working it so that the venator player in our campaign earns creds still as their rules dictate but they have been hired by otherwise occupied powers from uphive who just want to see as much of the sector under the control of their purse as possible. So their main play is to take territories to deny other gangs their boons.

As for Ratskins - I hope they are just as cool as the used to be. I used to love having a ratskin scout as a hired gun. I now have a load of the old ratskins waiting to get unleashed again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 06, 2019, 10:21:14 PM
Heve you seen Ash waste nomans concepts ?

Blurry but very cool looking.

Ratskins were climatic and very powerful (immunity to treacherous conditions was major thing) but line suffered from being re purposed from musket wielding historical Indians.

I would like to see some models for one of my all time favorites Pit Slaves
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 07, 2019, 07:46:13 AM
Quote from: AWu on February 06, 2019, 10:21:14 PM
Heve you seen Ash waste nomans concepts ?

Blurry but very cool looking.

Ratskins were climatic and very powerful (immunity to treacherous conditions was major thing) but line suffered from being re purposed from musket wielding historical Indians.

I would like to see some models for one of my all time favorites Pit Slaves
Yes I never got the Native American vibe ,when it could been fur clad techno barbarians for example.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 07, 2019, 08:33:46 AM
Not sure they were repurposed, it was their fluff, although it had maybe gone a bit far. They were supposed to be tribal, I'm guessing a bit like some of the Mad Max / 2000ad characters etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 07, 2019, 12:42:35 PM
Yeah but srsly wooden muskets from XVIII century is just poor design choice if they were thought like that. Low tech underhive scrap muskets would be much better thing.. some of the sculpts could be used in historical gaming of French Indian war (with goblin green basing convention of the time you wouldnt notice them being from the future at all..)
IMHO if they were made from scratch they would have some sort of orky styled crude tech like in Gorka morka few years later.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 07, 2019, 12:46:51 PM
I wonder if the Cawdor weaponry would be better idea ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 07, 2019, 01:10:37 PM
Anything not seen in the movie The Last of the Mohicans...

 o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on February 07, 2019, 01:42:36 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 04, 2019, 11:02:00 AM
Living in miniature chaos helps  ;)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/51195350_253370872231092_2882905997536395264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=c225e2765fb129465a0d4d1581715858&oe=5CE7BFD9)

That's still nice and orderly. Now if you could see my table...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 07, 2019, 03:35:26 PM
Bear in mind you are not seeing my work table just miniatures swarming around my table (i used to fast comparison :)

Working space starts right of the plastic lid :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 07, 2019, 05:55:58 PM
Well you have to remember those at the bottom of the hive are very much those that time has forgotten. They were an outlanders gang, so outlaws. They didn't have the access to steady supply streams from up hive houses. They had autoguns, lasguns, shotguns etc as well. It was mainly the juves that had the lesser weapons.

I quite like that they were improvised. Much in the same way as scavvies who had the speargun along with blunderbusses and other less reliable weapons.

It was all about flavour.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on February 07, 2019, 06:19:25 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 06, 2019, 10:21:14 PM
Heve you seen Ash waste nomans concepts ?

Blurry but very cool looking.

Ratskins were climatic and very powerful (immunity to treacherous conditions was major thing) but line suffered from being re purposed from musket wielding historical Indians.

I would like to see some models for one of my all time favorites Pit Slaves

Are we thinking of the same range? I admit they had a bit of an Indian vibe but were stylistically very much in line with the other Necromunda stuff, and I don't recall a single musket-armed one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 07, 2019, 06:40:37 PM
(http://www.solegends.com/citcat1999/c1999p0200-01.jpg)(http://www.solegends.com/citcat1999/c1999p0201-01.jpg)

These?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on February 07, 2019, 07:55:54 PM
Right until proven wrong!  lol

Still, I'd say the theme is more "savages with guns" than "underhive Amerindians".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: RAD on February 07, 2019, 08:41:31 PM
Here comes a ratskin scout:


https://artelw.com/#w--ul-id-570-2/Wildling-Scout/p/130615661/category=0--w
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 07, 2019, 08:51:33 PM
They were also originally dogskins weren't they?

(http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/images/1/11/Citadel_Ratskin_1.jpg)(http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/images/b/bd/Citadel_Ratskin_4.jpg)

For me it's very easy to see Mad Max/2000AD influences in there. From the wastes, fur pelts being their groups recognised 'thing'.

I think the Perry's took it to the more 1st nation look and house painters took it further. But if you painted them with regular clothes and pelts and more mixtures of ethnicities I think you could see something more different. I recently had a go at painting my shaman to be like Depp in the Lone Ranger though . . .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 07, 2019, 10:17:24 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on February 07, 2019, 08:51:33 PM
They were also originally dogskins weren't they?

(http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/images/1/11/Citadel_Ratskin_1.jpg)(http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/images/b/bd/Citadel_Ratskin_4.jpg)

For me it's very easy to see Mad Max/2000AD influences in there. From the wastes, fur pelts being their groups recognised 'thing'.

I think the Perry's took it to the more 1st nation look and house painters took it further. But if you painted them with regular clothes and pelts and more mixtures of ethnicities I think you could see something more different. I recently had a go at painting my shaman to be like Depp in the Lone Ranger though . . .
Wow I forgot about that there was the artwork pic with one wearing a spiked collar, funny enough I was thinking of dog soldiers ,mainly due to the battlefield earth book where they ate the dead dog 😂
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 08, 2019, 12:22:44 AM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on February 07, 2019, 07:55:54 PM
Right until proven wrong!  lol

Still, I'd say the theme is more "savages with guns" than "underhive Amerindians".

Srsly.. from the 3 armed with muskets two could do extras job on the set of The last of the Mohicans without make up :P

You had to disavove it lol

I still like the models (I have around 10 of them) just not buy Native american looks (Even their faces are in style) I am ok with tribal but post apo tribal would be better.
And Muskets while crappy and never worth it as a weapon I have no quarrel with.. just make them look 40k ot XVIII K

Always played them as la long las  ;)

Quote from: mcfonz on February 07, 2019, 08:51:33 PM
They were also originally dogskins weren't they?

(http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/images/1/11/Citadel_Ratskin_1.jpg)(http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/images/b/bd/Citadel_Ratskin_4.jpg)

Nice miniatures, I havent known them. What line were they sold ?

Quote from: mcfonz on February 07, 2019, 08:51:33 PM
For me it's very easy to see Mad Max/2000AD influences in there. From the wastes, fur pelts being their groups recognised 'thing'.
I think the Perry's took it to the more 1st nation look and house painters took it further. But if you painted them with regular clothes and pelts and more mixtures of ethnicities I think you could see something more different. I recently had a go at painting my shaman to be like Depp in the Lone Ranger though . . .

I consider mine to have palish white skin (as they live in darkness..
But they so far in line...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 08, 2019, 01:49:20 PM
Those were effectively the Confrontation pre-runners to Ratskins but had dog pelts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 08, 2019, 01:49:49 PM
New Abaddon (well part of it :P )
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51555074_10156992884988236_6007898075819933696_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=8f814ada90242ab0b7433ca2bde387fa&oe=5CFDCF1C)

And they shown teaser to something being made between Shadespire and kill Team - probably Neo Mordheim for AoS (but no details)


Plus
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51449965_10156992881278236_8208765697703018496_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=006f88058de948170756c255d36924ae&oe=5CFA73A6)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51739663_10156992881413236_2868119228295151616_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=d1dcdaf60f9453f0774d967c14e699cf&oe=5CFA5902)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51768503_10156992881608236_4892572820841693184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=80ecc8b3bcea23b3c4be9ed85e03b2b1&oe=5CEC64E2)

And last but not least Second Nun
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51800927_10156992881843236_3875116405816819712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=0b1c64165ea14453a301ba14faaf75c9&oe=5CEAB9B3)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on February 08, 2019, 01:53:39 PM
The chaos marines and the spider fella look good. Never been a fan of big cumbersome standards and the obliterator kinda looks like evil hulkbuster...not sure whether I like him or not.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on February 08, 2019, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 07, 2019, 03:35:26 PM
Bear in mind you are not seeing my work table just miniatures swarming around my table (i used to fast comparison :)

Working space starts right of the plastic lid :)

I'll spare everyone the heart attacks the sight of my desk would induce plus I don't want to derail this thread any further.  ;)


Quote from: AWu on February 08, 2019, 01:49:49 PM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51739663_10156992881413236_2868119228295151616_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=d1dcdaf60f9453f0774d967c14e699cf&oe=5CFA5902)


I actually llike the look of the new Obliterator. Looks much more impressive than the old ones did to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on February 08, 2019, 03:47:23 PM
I must admit to really liking that Obliterator, especially considering that I never did like the original metal ones. And those have been around for a ridiculously long time as well! I liked the fluff, but the models were always a bit of a let-down to me, even back in the nineties. Here's to hoping there will at least be enough poses to fill out a(n un)decent squad.

Those Chaos Marines are in keeping with the ones from the Dark Vengeance box, which is good, I suppose, and that spider thing looks like it would be right at home in a Nurgle force as well, as there are quite a few design elements it shares with the new Death Guard vehicles. Just add some pustules in a triangle somewhere and maybe a nurgling on top, and it'll be sick...

And apart from the proportions being more realistic, I don't see much changes in the design of the Sister when compared to the original metals. She's probably taller though, as that looks like a 32mm base.

Overall, I like what I see in these new previews...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on February 08, 2019, 04:20:28 PM
I really like em!

Also like the look of the few Vanguard Primaris. Look a bit more sleek, though pretty advanced looking for 'grim dark'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 08, 2019, 04:53:12 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on February 07, 2019, 10:17:24 PM
Wow I forgot about that there was the artwork pic with one wearing a spiked collar

LOVE that pic, he had long spiked fingernails too from memory, and a lasgun over his shoulder. There was another even more rag-tag guy in the background. Gave me a strong sense that the original idea was much closer to scavvies than any GW miniatures depicted them as being. McFonz is right, the four confrontation-era sculpts wear dog rather than rat pelts. Though can't recall if they're called dogskins in the confrontation rulebook or wd articles (definitely sold as "Underhive gangers", nothing more), think that name might have come from the CCM wiki.

AWu - where might one find that blurry pic of the new nomads? Not too fussed on the new Necromunda releases to be honest, though the guilders might have interesting conversion potential.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 08, 2019, 07:56:02 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 08, 2019, 04:53:12 PM
AWu - where might one find that blurry pic of the new nomads? Not too fussed on the new Necromunda releases to be honest, though the guilders might have interesting conversion potential.

Hey Belligerentparrot if you use Facebook the Guy running pagenamed  Garro (with Garro dude drawing n the avatar) did great coverage of the seminars on latest weekender and have great number of pictures.

but Ive saved those concepts:
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51199330_10156978912943236_5329824337232920576_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=7a9561528ecb50a7bd058f7296bfe2c4&oe=5CFF985E)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51240494_10156978913883236_3243371513084116992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=9ee4df2aca8f28c48a196602c2b674d0&oe=5CFD1371)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51132432_10156978914693236_5300982137191661568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=bc83e9e60cb760f30071212393e0fa89&oe=5CE8FB8C)

Early step apparently but supercool.

Dudes on stilts are my favourite
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 08, 2019, 08:05:16 PM
Cool thanks! These remind me of Weirdingway's Ash Waste ant-farmer conversions. I wonder if this is another case of the Blanchitsu crowd influencing the design team?

Anyway, these look better concepts than the earlier Necro nomad minis, which were too uniform for my taste (and why did they almost all have one long sleeve and one short sleeve? Silly). Too early to tell if they're an improvement on the confrontation minis  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 08, 2019, 08:39:02 PM
I like the look of those beasts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 08, 2019, 09:14:01 PM
Forget the models, I love that artwork!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 08, 2019, 09:30:42 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 08, 2019, 09:14:01 PM
Forget the models, I love that artwork!

And how!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 08, 2019, 11:06:39 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 08, 2019, 08:05:16 PM
Cool thanks! These remind me of Weirdingway's Ash Waste ant-farmer conversions. I wonder if this is another case of the Blanchitsu crowd influencing the design team?

I hope!

Any link to them ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 09, 2019, 12:59:09 AM
Here you go pal, hope this works (I don't have an instagram ac, so not sure if I can link to pics properly).

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs_A4zTnUlY/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs_A4zTnUlY/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 09, 2019, 01:18:11 AM
I'm all about the new Sisters, bring 'em on. I know they're going to look fantastic.

Chaos will likely be much better than the old stuff... man I hated the Obliterators.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 09, 2019, 01:38:19 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 09, 2019, 12:59:09 AM
Here you go pal, hope this works (I don't have an instagram ac, so not sure if I can link to pics properly).

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs_A4zTnUlY/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs_A4zTnUlY/)

WOW

Indeed its like he was making those concepts  :-*

Quote from: Dr Mathias on February 09, 2019, 01:18:11 AM
Chaos will likely be much better than the old stuff... man I hated the Obliterators.

Those were the models making me want to puke.. and not in a good nurgly way..
This is one of the concept that do not transfer well to miniatures I guess
This is much better - huge improvement (but still not the minie I would buy.. The Archeotech spider god of the Underhive on the other hand.. yess please)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 09, 2019, 11:55:36 AM
I have been undecided on doing a necromunda/frontier planet with either gw  or frostgrave conversions(cheaper /smaller easier to store)
But these new necromunda artwork an pics are making me  wait to see what else comes out , An I love the stealer gunslinger starn?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 09, 2019, 12:39:08 PM
Frontier town could make Necro Shanty Town easily.

Why not both ?

BTW Frostgrave plastics works well with Necromunda arms.
Ive built some
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 09, 2019, 12:50:30 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 09, 2019, 12:39:08 PM
Frontier town could make Necro Shanty Town easily.

Why not both ?

BTW Frostgrave plastics works well with Necromunda arms.
Ive built some
Really I assumed frostgrave was lot smaller than the new necromunda ?
I did think about the new frostgrave tribal heads on barbarian bodies as ratskin alternatives
Apologies for non gw talk my bad!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 09, 2019, 01:08:17 PM
They are considerably smaller tbh. They'll probably work ok at a push. I have just about got away using a Cadian flame thrower set of arms on a cultist body to give my CC a bit of extra punch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 09, 2019, 01:19:02 PM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/52287122_406340613448106_3039291726788296704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=c56c5264066206bd61518667143ec288&oe=5CB5DC9C)

Voila (Excuse dirt, Ive seen it after taking photos and they stood for almost a year and take some dust from the renovation of my hobby room

Escher arms works perfectly.

heads are kinda smaller, but GW heads works good on them.
(Here you see dryad heads so this is quite specific)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 09, 2019, 01:44:13 PM
Yeah they look fine  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on February 09, 2019, 01:46:34 PM
Don't forget though that the Escher arms are going to be slighter than some of the other gangs...others might look too big on the FG plastics.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 09, 2019, 06:27:57 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 09, 2019, 01:19:02 PM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/52287122_406340613448106_3039291726788296704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=c56c5264066206bd61518667143ec288&oe=5CB5DC9C)


Long live the Green Mechanicvm!!!
 :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 09, 2019, 08:07:23 PM
More like Slaaneshian beastman from Liber chaotica books.

I love Green mechanicum but its so out of my stale I would struggle to replicate them and I prefer to do original stuff..
 But I got Driad heads idea from those projects  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on February 15, 2019, 02:48:41 PM
GW look to be releasing a 'Gorechosen in space' game. The original was good fun, though I always found it better playing with characters who had their stronger attacks on further away hexes. It meant more movement was necessary. All the characters you can see here have their strong attacks adjacent to their base hex (the dark blue hex on the character cards). I wonder if they've address that.

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/NYToyFair-Feb15-CombatArenaInProgress4udes.jpg)

Also lots of other stuff including an apparently simplified version of Warhammer Underworlds. Could be interested in that as I find the main game has a bit too many fiddly phases.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/15/15th-feb-new-models-games-and-funko-pop-at-the-new-york-toy-fairgw-homepage-post-3/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/15/15th-feb-new-models-games-and-funko-pop-at-the-new-york-toy-fairgw-homepage-post-3/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 15, 2019, 03:08:34 PM
I love thet sevo skull reloading the gun (even If I am not to fond to the prosthetic leg
This Rogue Traderess (Tradix?) (3rd in one year!!!) is must have for me, as are most of the models in this se
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51880943_10157010071978236_2025144687144206336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=beecbd761b159bbe9f05bb134924291e&oe=5CE0B46B)


Game dont look to interesting to me but they meant to be released for Blackstone fortress..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on February 15, 2019, 08:15:32 PM
Quote from: AWu on February 15, 2019, 03:08:34 PM
I love thet sevo skull reloading the gun (even If I am not to fond to the prosthetic leg)

Agreed on the gun loader skull, and the leg (which I'll likely replace).

I think there was what, two total Rogue Traders (one on a technicality because he's an Inquisitor with 'Rogue' on his base tab) released in 30 years, and now three?  o_o

(http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/rt072117igforces/Wd118p66072117Miscx-01.jpg)



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 15, 2019, 08:19:18 PM
The ambull looks fun to play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 15, 2019, 08:23:44 PM
I was hoping on more male though..

Well I guess I will have to do me my Abdul Goldberg myself :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 26, 2019, 06:16:26 AM
New FW bounty hunter would make an OK Goldberg I think.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 26, 2019, 07:19:18 PM
Too dark*.
I want something more 80ties silly in style preferably with a turban (Don't ask why that is how I imagine Abdul Goldberg :)

* I love the model and will get him but I want Abdul to be generic bad guy for any scenario


(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/NecroAmbull-Feb25-TitleImage1snf.jpg)
BTW: GW did hot last week Ambul on next week Ambull action..

Spoiler
Ambull won..

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/25/25th-feb-necromunda-ambull-vs-ambot-deathmatchfw-homepage-post-1gw-homepage-post-3/?fbclid=IwAR3xwSv6wVaLFKsJ8heC3eBsDx9QAvJzYql10CN0-WLnvi1-pg17cYioDUw
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 04, 2019, 11:19:18 AM
Question: is it worth picking up the general's handbook, or should I wait for the next one? I've been meaning to pick it up, seeing as how the seraphon rulebook's not getting and update any time soon (and I haven't had an AoS rulebook since ever)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on March 04, 2019, 12:28:00 PM
In your case: yes.
Amoyts & Ambull, yes, will probably pick them up. Totally into GW these days, both playing and enjoying their games and collecting their kits/models. Who would have thought that about a year ago...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on March 04, 2019, 01:26:07 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on March 04, 2019, 11:19:18 AM
Question: is it worth picking up the general's handbook, or should I wait for the next one? I've been meaning to pick it up, seeing as how the seraphon rulebook's not getting and update any time soon (and I haven't had an AoS rulebook since ever)

Yeah I'd say so, they new one (2019) comes out in the summer so still a few months away at least. I picked up a 2nd hand copy on ebay for £10 so it's not too wallet hurty.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 04, 2019, 10:38:08 PM
This is probably best advice. Get it but second hand copy, as this is publication that will be superseded periodically there should be second market
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 05, 2019, 07:17:48 AM
Cheers lads, I figured that might be the case. Handbook's also about thirty bucks cheaper than the seraphon tome new so I'll go for that, but I'll look out for cheaper options where I can.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 05, 2019, 07:59:46 PM
(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/40kAbaddon-Mar5-Abaddon7tyerhvfsh.jpg)

Dont be Abaddont be Abbaddo!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 05, 2019, 09:08:35 PM
Nice. I think they did a good job...though I do dislike the extra cables to arms that GW love doing, those things would get in the way in battle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on March 05, 2019, 11:11:42 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on March 05, 2019, 09:08:35 PM
though I do dislike the extra cables to arms that GW love doing, those things would get in the way in battle.

I'm pretty sure that's not the only thing in GW models that might prove inconvenient in battle. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 05, 2019, 11:20:41 PM
Half of the Black crusades failed because of this awkward moment when wind stopped to blow..

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/53838548_411186616355707_3305619376048177152_n.png?_nc_cat=110&_nc_eui2=AeE_YIaOwjDDFiRxokelTyRHFPJP3td7e8hSbuJu0a3B6u7UGIh49wPfTDAgCvJhO-KeqGStKR1tJf0q7JxwgtVUsKAFT0EkqqzRKgWCB8eGCw&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=d3d1d2220adc2fad3690d48b562f93d0&oe=5D24081A)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 06, 2019, 12:06:17 AM
 lol lol lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on March 06, 2019, 02:29:32 AM
One of his stormbolters has a jam...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 06, 2019, 07:45:49 AM
I like it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 06, 2019, 11:34:12 AM
Quote from: Dolmot on March 05, 2019, 11:11:42 PM
I'm pretty sure that's not the only thing in GW models that might prove inconvenient in battle. lol

"Lord, I have found some old fencing going a bit rusty."
"Strap it on my back underling, it will look mint. And put some bloody skullz on it."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 06, 2019, 12:09:59 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 06, 2019, 11:34:12 AM
"Lord, I have found some old fencing going a bit rusty."
"Strap it on my back underling, it will look mint. And put some bloody skullz on it."

 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 09, 2019, 10:21:24 AM
Just had a gw email, the ambots are great looking and the  character from the 40k box set would be great for feudal knight.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Shadowspear-EN-2019
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on March 11, 2019, 05:10:02 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/11/skulltaker-the-most-warhammer-model-ever/

I’m glad they’ve really embraced their sense of humour.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on March 11, 2019, 05:51:50 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on March 11, 2019, 05:10:02 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/11/skulltaker-the-most-warhammer-model-ever/

I’m glad they’ve really embraced their sense of humour.

Yeah, that's the best announcement ever. Making jokes about their own models - who would have thought about seeing GW doing this? Glad to see that in some aspects they've changed a lot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 11, 2019, 06:01:53 PM
But then does them laughing about it excuse doing it...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on March 11, 2019, 09:03:37 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on March 11, 2019, 06:01:53 PM
But then does them laughing about it excuse doing it...

I don’t think there’s anything to excuse. It’s called “fun”
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 11, 2019, 09:15:01 PM
:D I think you got the wrong end of the stick matey...I was meaning does joking about the mini standing on a rock and all that excuse the fact that he is; rather than come up with a different pose to convey the minis character they just decided to go with the rock thing...again...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 11, 2019, 10:10:41 PM
Spmi  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 11, 2019, 10:25:57 PM
Because in the future, there is no corrective footwear for uneven legs, so you have to make do with whatever balances you up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on March 12, 2019, 12:11:24 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on March 11, 2019, 09:15:01 PM
:D I think you got the wrong end of the stick matey...I was meaning does joking about the mini standing on a rock and all that excuse the fact that he is; rather than come up with a different pose to convey the minis character they just decided to go with the rock thing...again...

I mean they could do a character covered in rocks, standing on a skull.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 12, 2019, 12:39:26 AM
Has there been any mention of the Obliterators being available separately or will they be unique to the box set?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 12, 2019, 04:18:57 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on March 12, 2019, 12:11:24 AM
I mean they could do a character covered in rocks, standing on a skull.  lol
That would have to be a goblin mini. I'd love to see that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 12, 2019, 11:30:43 AM
They're fifty percent there all ready.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Gloomspite-Gitz-Rockgut-Troggoths-2019 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Gloomspite-Gitz-Rockgut-Troggoths-2019)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on March 12, 2019, 03:59:17 PM
Well played!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 12, 2019, 09:25:08 PM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54433680_1676977705667799_1738597723424161792_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=9951b2d2929a8cc0a99a285f197cf74c&oe=5D1DC023)

I giggled :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on March 13, 2019, 03:02:10 AM
Every time I keep coming to this thread expecting to hear of GW’s demise but they just won’t die.. are they vampiric?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 13, 2019, 03:18:02 AM
Well colour me interested with this. Warcry (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/11/breaking-news-from-gama/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=WHTVGAMAWarcryMar13&utm_content=WHTVGAMAWarcryMar13&fbclid=IwAR04F1-oPqWjYTgpn2SBZoHWOQr9ZCyNcP_dycjc3YtrDJsMepXnkhWoyaE)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Braxandur on March 13, 2019, 08:39:31 AM
Same here...

The corrupted commisar from Black Stone Fortress is also interesting :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRqX4y4qykE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRqX4y4qykE)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 13, 2019, 09:16:12 AM
Looks like there is at least Chaos Dwarf in that Warcry video...though without the bighat :D

Some of the models look interesting and some look a bit daft (those red helmets with a very restrictive view for instance) so about on par with GW. I look forward to seeing more pics so I can get a better look.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 13, 2019, 10:58:49 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on March 12, 2019, 03:59:17 PM
Well played!  lol

Err, I think I may be experiencing some issues with your signature:

(https://i.imgur.com/TDeX33r.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on March 13, 2019, 11:15:35 AM
Quote from: beefcake on March 13, 2019, 03:18:02 AM
Well colour me interested with this. Warcry (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/11/breaking-news-from-gama/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=WHTVGAMAWarcryMar13&utm_content=WHTVGAMAWarcryMar13&fbclid=IwAR04F1-oPqWjYTgpn2SBZoHWOQr9ZCyNcP_dycjc3YtrDJsMepXnkhWoyaE)

Same here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 13, 2019, 12:17:21 PM
Warcry looks veeeery interesting, I see great conversion opportunities for a pitslave gang there. Also the name and logo appeals to my crust punk side.  :)

Quite like the new Kai Jericho too, and the Traitor Guard commanders. It is hard to resist giving GW more cash than I'm comfortable with these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on March 13, 2019, 01:55:18 PM
Well it seems a very good time to be a AoS fan in 2019 and it's only March :)

Gloomspite Gitz, Flesh-Eater Courts, Skaven & Blades Of Khorne 2E Battletomes/new toys and a brand new Skirmish game Warcry! Plus Forbidden Power Expansion.

And me mates wonder why I'm too bloody skint all the time hehe
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 13, 2019, 02:59:23 PM
Quote from: grant on March 13, 2019, 03:02:10 AM
Every time I keep coming to this thread expecting to hear of GW’s demise but they just won’t die.. are they vampiric?

I dont think GW was ever in a better shape!

Warcry could be really interesting.
6 factions and all of them chaos cults could be a little limiting but Necromunda started in similar fashion and chaos cults will be much more open to conversions!
And that means no Sigmarines and thats always good thing (I dont have anything against them - I quite like the models but they are in friggin every starter set.. :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 13, 2019, 04:05:04 PM
Perhaps its a way of releasing the Dark Oath minis so they can help to spread the costs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 13, 2019, 07:05:10 PM
Quote from: grant on March 13, 2019, 03:02:10 AM
Every time I keep coming to this thread expecting to hear of GW’s demise but they just won’t die.. are they vampiric?
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 13, 2019, 07:42:48 PM
Call me bonkers, but I am mist interested in those Halfling Blood Bowl players....and I have not played BB for about 15 years!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 13, 2019, 10:03:27 PM
All depends on the Treemen really.

But strange choice for  team before Wood Elves and Lizardmen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 13, 2019, 11:07:33 PM
Quote from: AWu on March 12, 2019, 09:25:08 PM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54433680_1676977705667799_1738597723424161792_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=9951b2d2929a8cc0a99a285f197cf74c&oe=5D1DC023)

I giggled :>

 lol lol

Any idea what that figure on the left actually is...?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 13, 2019, 11:10:32 PM
Looks like a placcy PVC dnd mini.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 13, 2019, 11:13:49 PM
Is it wrong that I prefer it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 13, 2019, 11:56:34 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 13, 2019, 11:13:49 PM
Is it wrong that I prefer it?

Not to me.
\I prefer it too.
That is why I asked, as I can see some fairly easy conversions to old school Ambulls with that fella.
 :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 14, 2019, 12:31:26 AM
The brown fella looks like an actual creature. The one on the right looks like a villain from 'Batman Forever'. Death by neon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on March 14, 2019, 04:03:09 AM
The brown fellow is a dnd umber hulk(the original inspiration for ambulls) you can get an undercoated version for painting yourself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 14, 2019, 04:54:14 AM
Quote from: AWu on March 13, 2019, 10:03:27 PM
All depends on the Treemen really.

But strange choice for  team before Wood Elves and Lizardmen.

Isn't there a wood elves team already? Or am I just thinking of the elven union team?

I would be down for a Lizardmen team either way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 14, 2019, 05:35:58 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on March 14, 2019, 04:03:09 AM
The brown fellow is a dnd umber hulk(the original inspiration for ambulls) you can get an undercoated version for painting yourself.
Yes, I have one of those. Very nice too. Plastic Wizkids range like Bones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 14, 2019, 11:19:46 AM
Quote from: Cubs on March 13, 2019, 11:13:49 PM
Is it wrong that I prefer it?

You are not a true GW fan and you surely lack skulls on your outfit sir!


While I prefer Ambull, I want 2 or 3 cheap umber hulks too :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on March 15, 2019, 09:22:57 PM
Quote from: Mason on March 13, 2019, 07:42:48 PM
Call me bonkers, but I am mist interested in those Halfling Blood Bowl players....and I have not played BB for about 15 years!
If you are bonkers then that must mean I am bonkers. I really like these new halflings. I just hope GW do placcy treemen though or sales will be disappointing. Imagine having to fork out £40+ for two pretty much essential players.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 21, 2019, 11:11:10 AM
So, apart from discussing the pre-release teaser pics of some of the miniatures in it, has anyone already mentioned the Shadowspear box yet? Because I've now seen those new Primaris sculpts and they'd be enough to give me a right push off and over the 'Love 'em / 'Meh' fence, because those are awesome 8)

I already liked the lighter, not-scout armour better than the tactical version, but this set adds a whole range of tacticool stuff to them, making me actually wanting to paint up a few. The guy throwing the smoke grenade is just ace!

(https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/ShadowspearPreview-Mar3-Infiltrators2wnf-1.jpg)

And the Chaos contingent is pretty suave too, what with the Spider daemonengine, Obliterators and more marine poses.

The only thing not 100% doing it for me (modelwise, I'm sure the rules will be sweet) are the Autocannon-toting jumppackers. But I remember the role in Dark Eldar armies back in the day; those Scourges could be brutal, jumping heavy weapons all over the place.

So, even though I'm still in the process of painting up the contents of my Dark Imperium box (the Death Guard part anyway), I am now seriously tempted to get my hands on this box... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on March 21, 2019, 09:56:55 PM
Hello!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 21, 2019, 10:02:50 PM
I am a little surprised they aren't more chaosy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 21, 2019, 10:04:26 PM
Quote from: Manchu on March 21, 2019, 09:56:55 PM
Hello!
(http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=57122.0;attach=95464;image)

The guy on the right looks like he's thinking "why do I have to haul this thing again? It's creepy and it stinks..."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 21, 2019, 11:26:49 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on March 21, 2019, 10:04:26 PM
The guy on the right looks like he's thinking "why do I have to haul this thing again? It's creepy and it stinks..."

If that is the case then the chap on the left has obviously been a very naughty boy indeed!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on March 22, 2019, 12:04:21 AM
Quote from: Mason on March 21, 2019, 11:26:49 PM
If that is the case then the chap on the left has obviously been a very naughty boy indeed!
He failed his latin test...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on March 22, 2019, 03:05:47 AM
Quote from: Mason on March 21, 2019, 11:26:49 PM
If that is the case then the chap on the left has obviously been a very naughty boy indeed!

Well, they are with Chaos - I'd assume they have a daily naughtiness quota to fill.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on March 22, 2019, 06:36:06 AM
I haven't played 40K since the early days of 3rd edition.

I don't own any 40K models, none of my gaming group play 40K and I can't afford to start a new 40K army but god I'm wanting some of the new Chaos stuff...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on March 23, 2019, 10:58:59 AM
Putting a decent CSM army together must cost hundreds of pounds.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: RAD on March 23, 2019, 04:50:43 PM
I have abandoned the idea of playing 40K a long time ago, but one only needs a handful minis to play kill team, necromunda or inquisimunda. You can put a team up with a few bucks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on March 24, 2019, 05:41:27 AM
Yeah I might do.

I had a catch up with some gaming buddies this weekend and tested the water  there's no interest in any 40K gaming.

Plus I saw the price of the new Chaos Space Marine kit (in NZ$)... I think I'm cured...

I might try and pick up some of the chosen from Dark Vengeance to cure the itch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on March 28, 2019, 11:24:05 AM
Lots of good stuff from Adeption shown off.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/28/breaking-news-dark-power-unleashed/

My favourite:

(https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AdepticonReveals-Mar27-KoS7jhjgfdbwkdfkf.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on March 28, 2019, 12:15:23 PM
Lovely releases all 'round. And War Cry is still holding my interest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 28, 2019, 04:27:06 PM
That's it, I give up.

The new GW is sheer, unbridled madness:

https://players.brightcove.net/5778310444001/tEqh4qwjNN_default/index.html?videoId=6018672327001

In a world where so many game manufacturers are taking themselves and their products far too seriously, it's so wonderfully refreshing to see at least one major player "regressing" to the batty old notion that games ought to be fun for everyone - including the designers.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on March 28, 2019, 05:04:21 PM
lol

They surely have changed a lot from the time when the only form of communication they knew was cease & desist letters to fans. (Coincidentally, that's when I gave up...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on March 28, 2019, 05:12:11 PM
I'm super interested in the War Cry release - lovely setting for a war band based skirmish game. Those previewed minis look surprisingly restrained too...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 28, 2019, 05:37:33 PM
War cry looks more and more interesting I agree..
Although they diluted the millieu with non chaos warbands I guess its best for the game sales.

Strict closed settings like Necromunda gangs are great to keep long running communities but half of potential new people will want to play something they know already..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 28, 2019, 06:04:20 PM
Those iron golems make some tasty pitslave conversions , or gladiator slaves forced to fight for dark elf/ork pleasure?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on March 29, 2019, 02:19:16 AM
It’s just so ... silly looking. Floating head with black tendrils? Nope.

I honestly yearn for the 5th edition, many years ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 29, 2019, 06:41:00 AM
Yes, that looks dumb.
I do like the keeper of secrets, very androgneous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on March 29, 2019, 10:30:50 AM
Quote from: grant on March 29, 2019, 02:19:16 AM
It’s just so ... silly looking. Floating head with black tendrils? Nope.

I honestly yearn for the 5th edition, many years ago.

Luckily there wasn’t anything thing silly looking in 5th Ed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 29, 2019, 11:19:17 AM
Quote from: grant on March 29, 2019, 02:19:16 AM
It’s just so ... silly looking. Floating head with black tendrils? Nope.

I honestly yearn for the 5th edition, many years ago.

I agree that some of the endless spells are a bit silly, though my 13yr old self would have really enjoyed them. I think this is GW playing their customer base well: you don't need to use the endless spell models if you're a cynical old hand (nowt wrong with templates and counters like non-silly games use, eh?), but if you want to push a big floaty head around as your wizard unleashes destruction then you can buy one.

Miniatures-wise though, the recent GW stuff is remarkably better on the whole than static 5th era posing I'd say. And that new Keeper of Secrets is an amazing piece of work.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on March 30, 2019, 07:57:55 AM
Was fully expecting the new Keeper of Secrets to be some weirdly dynamic, half-floating model no doubt horribly impractical to transport or game with. But I'm impressed. That is probably one of the best models they have done in years, among the best models out there in general. Twisted enough to be upsetting, but not horribly so; elegant, mysterious. Improving on the old one wouldn't be difficult, but hadn't expected something this good. And it's not just some boring kinky succubus like most competitiors have created in the intervening years. Never much of a fan of Slaanesh, but that's just an excellent figure.

The other stuff I don't care much about. The Daemon Prince has some good parts, but the herald on it looks odd; Masque and mirror attendants have strange faces and the spell markers I've never liked (too big and chunky, and too "physical" for magic).

Warcry's Furies look pretty good though, about time those got some new models!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on March 31, 2019, 06:17:33 AM
The havocs are such a huge rip off.
Thankfully I don't think anyone is dumb enough to pay £32.50 for 7 weapons and 5 guys when you can buy a devastator squad and stick spikes on with 12 weapons options and 5 guys for £28.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 31, 2019, 10:47:34 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on March 30, 2019, 07:57:55 AM
And it's not just some boring kinky succubus like most competitiors have created in the intervening years.

Those models are cringy..

And surprisingly this androgynous and sensible brested Keeper is improvement over flimsy but cool FW model those busty monstrosities were all based on.
I like his/her face most. Inhuman and yet strangely attractive (painting it to show it will be different thing though :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 01, 2019, 03:44:08 PM
I'm really not sure if this is an April Fool or not, but I hope it is  o_o - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/01/introducing-the-iserv-pro/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Agis on April 01, 2019, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: zemjw on April 01, 2019, 03:44:08 PM
I'm really not sure if this is an April Fool or not, but I hope it is  o_o - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/01/introducing-the-iserv-pro/
It is, and a rather good one…
;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 01, 2019, 04:01:10 PM
Do you think it could tell me when the Squats are coming back?  :D  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on April 01, 2019, 06:18:54 PM
It is.. but  IMHO this is a huge mistake

Many people would pay silly cash for it :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on April 03, 2019, 03:41:50 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on March 29, 2019, 10:30:50 AM
Luckily there wasn’t anything thing silly looking in 5th Ed.

Luckily!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on April 04, 2019, 09:26:05 AM
https://spikeybits.com/2019/04/gw-flexes-legal-action-on-another-gaming-company.html

Always fun to see GW throwing their legal fat around
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on April 04, 2019, 09:51:33 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on April 04, 2019, 09:26:05 AM
https://spikeybits.com/2019/04/gw-flexes-legal-action-on-another-gaming-company.html

Always fun to see GW throwing their legal fat around

I'm waiting for a C&D for my War-Hamster idea ;)

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/712/370/c47.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 04, 2019, 09:55:28 AM
War Banner games (seriously, is that close enough to Warhammer to warrant bullying them? I remain unconvinced) then changed their name to Dark Peak games … and were promptly slapped with a 'Cease and Desist' from Peak Games.

I don't know what to think about any of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 04, 2019, 12:43:24 PM
Seems a bit petty to me, while the names are similar its not really a connection I ever made as the two companies are clearly different.

Maybe with the gradual roll out of the shop name change (from Games Workshop to Warhammer) they will change the company name to Warhammer and want to make sure the field stays clear before that happens.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 04, 2019, 01:11:06 PM
The trouble is, little companies probably can't even afford to fight their case, so it's not even about whether the action has merit or not, it's about whether GW wants to force people to back down by setting the legal Rottweilers on them. It's a real pity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 04, 2019, 01:40:52 PM
Indeed...from their point of view its just not worth it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on April 04, 2019, 01:56:14 PM
I suspect it's a combination of factors that unleashed the dogs of law, in that the company name was both phonetically similar (War Banner / Warhammer) and the company logo (white font on black field) is very close to the rebranding they did for their "Warhammer" stores a couple of years back.

Pity for War Banner, of course, but brand law is an awful quagmire, IMHO, and I am glad that I don't have to deal with it on a regular basis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 04, 2019, 03:13:21 PM
Is it also (he says, knowing not of what he speaks) a case of GW barricading up a potential slippery slope? You have to protect your name relatively widely, lest an exploitable precedent be set?

E.g. if War Banner is OK, then why not Warbanner, and before you know it some random company is selling a game called Heroquest  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 04, 2019, 03:23:59 PM
The thin end of the wedge effect? Could be. Perhaps they should go with Battle Banner and be done with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on April 04, 2019, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 04, 2019, 09:55:28 AM
War Banner games (seriously, is that close enough to Warhammer to warrant bullying them? I remain unconvinced) then changed their name to Dark Peak games … and were promptly slapped with a 'Cease and Desist' from Peak Games.

I don't know what to think about any of it.

There's just no winning for them, is there.

I vote for Peacecudgel Workshop as their next name.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 04, 2019, 07:11:57 PM
So the Peak Games one is more unfortunate as they don't even exist in the same realms, they are about mobile phone games.

War Banner/Warhammer I get, although it's taken them a while to slam down the C&D. Now, I might be reading too much into this but Andy Hobday recently took on War Banner didn't he? And he went there and essentially took the game he had created, Test of Honour, which meant Warlord Games could no longer stock it.

Thing is with them, they have a number of ex GW employees. It just seems to coincidental that War Banner suddenly gets a C&D after over a year of operating otherwise.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on April 05, 2019, 05:42:55 PM
Are Graham’s Workshop still trading?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on April 05, 2019, 10:11:53 PM
I assume you mean these guys (Graham's Wuerkshoppe)?
https://www.facebook.com/grahamswuerkshoppe.co.uk/

No idea - the website link doesn't seem to work.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on April 06, 2019, 01:12:56 AM
Quote from: FionaWhite on April 04, 2019, 04:18:50 PM
There's just no winning for them, is there.

I vote for Peacecudgel Workshop as their next name.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on April 06, 2019, 01:14:38 AM
Quote from: von Lucky on April 05, 2019, 10:11:53 PM
I assume you mean these guys (Graham's Wuerkshoppe)?
https://www.facebook.com/grahamswuerkshoppe.co.uk/

No idea - the website link doesn't seem to work.

That’s the one, “new” name since I last heard of them.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 06, 2019, 10:20:39 AM
Just had this in a email,I could never paint it or use it ,but damn it looks nice
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marines-Vex-Machinator-2019
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 06, 2019, 10:55:27 AM
I dunno, its kinda busy though maybe thats the paint job. Part of me wonders if it isn't the same same kind of silliness that gave us marines riding wolves and that damn wolf sledge.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on April 06, 2019, 12:10:46 PM
Nah
This thing is cool.
Santa wolf is not :>

I wonder if it can be built without the rider.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 06, 2019, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: AWu on April 06, 2019, 12:10:46 PM
Nah
This thing is cool.
Santa wolf is not :>

I wonder if it can be built without the rider.
Have a look if you scroll through the pics , there's sprue shots second one looks like it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on April 06, 2019, 05:06:31 PM
Quote from: Chico on April 04, 2019, 09:51:33 AM
I'm waiting for a C&D for my War-Hamster idea ;)

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/712/370/c47.jpg)

Actually it was Sandy Petersen's idea: http://glorantha.temppeli.org/digest/gd5/1997.11/1898.html

There's also a board game called Warhamster Rally:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1314/warhamster-rally

You might get credit for the hyphen, however.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on April 06, 2019, 08:22:03 PM
Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on April 06, 2019, 05:06:31 PM
Actually it was Sandy Petersen's idea: http://glorantha.temppeli.org/digest/gd5/1997.11/1898.html

There's also a board game called Warhamster Rally:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1314/warhamster-rally

You might get credit for the hyphen, however.

LOL there's always someone...

It was clearly (Good or bad) nothing but a joke post about a long standing Warhammer joke name.

Have a good day now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on April 07, 2019, 12:50:39 PM
Why are those new marines wearing shoes?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on April 08, 2019, 04:11:13 PM
Quote from: Chico on April 06, 2019, 08:22:03 PM
LOL there's always someone...

It was clearly (Good or bad) nothing but a joke post about a long standing Warhammer joke name.

Have a good day now.

OK. I was aware it was a joke, but had the impression you were claiming credit for the name. My bad. Nice picture, BTW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on April 08, 2019, 11:45:31 PM
Quote from: Kitsune on April 07, 2019, 12:50:39 PM
Why are those new marines wearing shoes?
To walk in...obviously
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on April 09, 2019, 05:22:44 PM
If GW's protection of its branding is still a topic of interest, I can't help wondering how these chaps will fare, particularly as their range includes not only orcs but orks:

http://www.warhansa.com/index.php/katalog/fantasy_orcs_goblins.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 10, 2019, 07:02:51 PM
Orc's is fine. Chapterhouse was a testcase really. They picked the company that took the 'p' more than others and went to town.

Orc is a long established name, so couldn't be protected. It wasn't original to GW. As a result of the other terms like Space Marine etc in that case being deemed too common to be protected they renamed pretty much their entire range of paints and the vast majority of the miniatures that had common names.

Orcs became Orruks with the introduction of AoS.

Orks I'm not sure about to be honest. But considering it is just a letter swap from Orcs I doubt it would be either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 10, 2019, 07:08:47 PM
How long before we see Orx?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 10, 2019, 07:13:27 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 10, 2019, 07:08:47 PM
How long before we see Orx?

Hasn't that already been taken by Mantic?  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 10, 2019, 07:34:47 PM
Yeesh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Leftblank on April 11, 2019, 01:21:02 AM
I'm a lawyer. I discovered similarities between the old War Banner logo and the NEW Warhammer logo. I think that was the reason for the C&D letter to War Banner. Money always wins.

My short blog with pics here: https://amsterdamwar.game.blog/2019/04/06/why-i-hate-games-workshop-lawyers/ (https://amsterdamwar.game.blog/2019/04/06/why-i-hate-games-workshop-lawyers/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 11, 2019, 06:38:36 AM
Nice blogpost there Leftblank.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on April 11, 2019, 02:12:58 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on April 10, 2019, 07:02:51 PM
Orc's is fine. Chapterhouse was a testcase really. They picked the company that took the 'p' more than others and went to town.

Orc is a long established name, so couldn't be protected. It wasn't original to GW. As a result of the other terms like Space Marine etc in that case being deemed too common to be protected they renamed pretty much their entire range of paints and the vast majority of the miniatures that had common names.

Orcs became Orruks with the introduction of AoS.

Orks I'm not sure about to be honest. But considering it is just a letter swap from Orcs I doubt it would be either.

All very true, no doubt, but I was primarily thinking of the company's name.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 11, 2019, 06:00:43 PM
I'd rather not be able to trademark something's name and risk a bit of (pretty much healthy) competition from small companies than have silly names like Orruks and Ogors and Gorefistmegathrumpicator that I was in charge of.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 11, 2019, 06:18:29 PM
This is exactly why any GW talk is kept to this thread.

Every so many posts we may as well just post 'EVIL GAMES WORKSHOP' let those that want to nod in agreement and the rest of us get on with being rather less negative and trying to enjoy what GW has to offer to the hobby. Being the biggest gateway for youngsters into the hobby is just one of them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 11, 2019, 06:19:26 PM
I was just making a joke about the new names (hence the o.t.t made up one). Let me add a smiley to make it clear.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on April 11, 2019, 09:41:04 PM
To cheer up the conversation..
Important announcement

https://newsthump.com/2019/04/11/black-hole-picture-actually-the-eye-of-terror-humanity-warned/?fbclid=IwAR3GDRToGQclPOeXVU4cuZU09aBveIecoVrnAgL743PO4GXktAth2B0w6PE
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 11, 2019, 10:32:49 PM
"Ork" is used by Tolkien (it was his preferred spelling, apparently). In The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, he wrote this:

Quote
I'll call the orks on you: that'll send you running!

And while that was published in JRRT's lifetime, I'm pretty sure that posthumously published stuff has used ork and orkish since. I suspect that the Tolkien estate is quite a big hitter when it comes to IP protection, and it certainly has form for taking on games companies. I'm not any sort of expert on this, but I imagine that the Tolkien estate might be displeased (or even forced to act) if a company were to try to claim "ork" as its trademarked alternative for "orc".

Also, orke is attested in English since the seventeenth century, according to the OED, and there's an ork in Tyrolese folklore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 11, 2019, 11:04:49 PM
Quote from: AWu on April 11, 2019, 09:41:04 PM
To cheer up the conversation..
Important announcement

https://newsthump.com/2019/04/11/black-hole-picture-actually-the-eye-of-terror-humanity-warned/?fbclid=IwAR3GDRToGQclPOeXVU4cuZU09aBveIecoVrnAgL743PO4GXktAth2B0w6PE

Not to worry that's at least 28,000 years into the fuure lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on April 12, 2019, 01:12:21 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on April 11, 2019, 11:04:49 PM
Not to worry that's at least 28,000 years into the fuure lol

Actually...

As the photographed black hole in M87 is 55 million light years away, the pictures does not look 28,000 years into the future, but 54,972,000 into the past.

So this Eye of Terror would have come into existence about 10 million years after the extinction of the dinosaurs. I'm sure there's something in there about the Old Ones and the War in Heaven... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on April 12, 2019, 01:15:14 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on April 11, 2019, 11:04:49 PM
Not to worry that's at least 28,000 years into the fuure lol

Open your eyes sheeple :P
Or to tie in sheeporks :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 12, 2019, 05:00:15 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on April 12, 2019, 01:12:21 PM
Actually...

As the photographed black hole in M87 is 55 million light years away, the pictures does not look 28,000 years into the future, but 54,972,000 into the past.

So this Eye of Terror would have come into existence about 10 million years after the extinction of the dinosaurs. I'm sure there's something in there about the Old Ones and the War in Heaven... :D

Of course i meant 28k into our future o_o ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 15, 2019, 02:04:14 PM
Just flicking through Saturdays sun newspaper and in the city section,it mentions GW says pre tax profit for year ending June 2019 is roughly 80 million up about 7 percent.😮
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on April 15, 2019, 05:59:55 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on April 15, 2019, 02:04:14 PM
Just flicking through Saturdays sun newspaper and in the city section,it mentions GW says pre tax profit for year ending June 2019 is roughly 80 million up about 7 percent.😮
Seems a lot.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 15, 2019, 06:25:19 PM
 lol lol lol

Warhammer 40K Custom Lost Legion with 10 Chapter Names (Aquatic Theme) (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40K-Custom-Lost-Legion-with-10-Chapter-Names-Aquatic-Theme/152147541393?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D56922%26meid%3D822fd9270e4448408705fa4801032ed9%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D12%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D163363747731%26itm%3D152147541393&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A9331b6ba-5fa2-11e9-8f27-74dbd180c950%7Cparentrq%3A220272d016a0ad782c19569efff4e8d8%7Ciid%3A1)

Anyone think this is worth $49.99 on eBay?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 15, 2019, 06:51:20 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on April 15, 2019, 06:25:19 PM
lol lol lol

Warhammer 40K Custom Lost Legion with 10 Chapter Names (Aquatic Theme) (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40K-Custom-Lost-Legion-with-10-Chapter-Names-Aquatic-Theme/152147541393?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D56922%26meid%3D822fd9270e4448408705fa4801032ed9%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D12%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D163363747731%26itm%3D152147541393&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A9331b6ba-5fa2-11e9-8f27-74dbd180c950%7Cparentrq%3A220272d016a0ad782c19569efff4e8d8%7Ciid%3A1)

Anyone think this is worth $49.99 on eBay?
With the shipping it’s a bargain
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 15, 2019, 08:10:34 PM
GW community survey at https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/SH89F3Y. Chance to win plastic sisters of battle figs

So I filled it in - it's a long survey by the way - hit done and got a server error. No idea if they got it or not o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 15, 2019, 08:57:17 PM
Yes I did that too, very long.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 15, 2019, 09:04:15 PM
Just done it, no issues. I guess the initial response may have been too much for the servers. Especially with the offer of a chance to win some free plastic sisters of battle... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on April 15, 2019, 10:17:57 PM
Did it
Mine was probably a bit shorter as I dont play 40k nor AoS so missed two large blocks :>

What stroke me was lack of Necromunda on the list of games played at the beginning..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on April 16, 2019, 01:40:57 PM
Has there been any more news about War Cry yet? It's one I'm really looking forward too (Chaos has always been best for war band on war band stuff) and I'm feeling the pull of a small 28mm project...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 16, 2019, 04:24:04 PM
Quote from: AWu on April 15, 2019, 10:17:57 PM
Did it
Mine was probably a bit shorter as I dont play 40k nor AoS so missed two large blocks :>

What stroke me was lack of Necromunda on the list of games played at the beginning..
Yeah, very inconsistent: noticed that both Necromunda and Middle-earth were mentioned in some, but not others (and sometimes it included one of these, sometimes the other: not just that both were missing or present). As if the compiler just wrote down whatever they happened to remember at the time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 16, 2019, 09:12:19 PM
Quote from: AWu on April 15, 2019, 10:17:57 PM
Did it
Mine was probably a bit shorter as I dont play 40k nor AoS so missed two large blocks :>

What stroke me was lack of Necromunda on the list of games played at the beginning..
Not to mention Oldhammer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 16, 2019, 09:56:01 PM
THERE IS NO OLDHAMMER!!! Or maybe they just don't care...I felt a little dirty mentioning I still play HeroQuest :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on April 16, 2019, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on April 16, 2019, 09:12:19 PM
Not to mention Oldhammer.

I mentioned Oldhammer once, but I think I got away with it
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 17, 2019, 04:20:20 AM
I put in the survey the the old world was a favourite part for me. I bet they will listen to the ramblings of those over 18...  lol oh to be part of the target market. At least I'm glad they do bring back the old minis in some form with those week long metal sales of old school minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 17, 2019, 05:10:00 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 17, 2019, 04:20:20 AM
At least I'm glad they do bring back the old minis in some form with those week long metal sales of old school minis.
Yet also dropping dated parts of the line with no word of warning every now and then, as with the normal Goblin minis recently, not to mention all the Brets during "the Event". Just a couple of weeks notice, that's all I ask - and did indeed ask for. Collectors can get a few boxes without having to trade in their second kidney via ebay, while GW can get a nice influx of cash before the old kits are put out to pasture, simultaneously looking customer friendly for doing so. Everybody wins.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 17, 2019, 06:21:18 AM
Yeah, word of warning before discontinuation would be nice. I was looking for the old wolfriders the other day and couldn't find them. Probably been gone for years though. I guess I'll just have to buy some fenrisian wolves for my old metal wolfriders (actually I bought some chaos wolves instead, they might be good for Goblin mounts if I don't chaosify them too much)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 17, 2019, 10:36:51 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 17, 2019, 04:20:20 AM
oh to be part of the target market.

Pretty sure GW sees the middle-aged man spending his disposable income on their products as equally important as the kids these days. It is one of the main keys to their rejuvenation: we're the guys who spend the big money on their stuff, so keeping us happy is a priority.

If you think about it, in the West at least ours is the only generation where someone get into their 30s, is earning good money, and says "I want to buy all the toys I couldn't afford when I was 14".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 17, 2019, 11:44:51 AM
True, they already have me, but their aim is to get the new blood in who will be the future big spenders. (well maybe their real aim is to make games that sell well but I guess I'm over generalising with my previous statement).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 17, 2019, 09:55:59 PM
The plastic wargs make nice whfb goblin mounts I've found.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 17, 2019, 10:06:20 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 17, 2019, 06:21:18 AM
Yeah, word of warning before discontinuation would be nice. I was looking for the old wolfriders the other day and couldn't find them. Probably been gone for years though. I guess I'll just have to buy some fenrisian wolves for my old metal wolfriders (actually I bought some chaos wolves instead, they might be good for Goblin mounts if I don't chaosify them too much)

Maybe the old Grenadier wolves could work out too???
I have an old metal goblin wolf rider somewhere (80's version) and a few of those wolves somewhere.
I shall see if I can find them and take a look for ya if you want....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 17, 2019, 10:16:11 PM
They're on eBay quite a lot. I've recently been buying up the old Chronicle Orc Wolf riders and keep having to scroll through pages of Citadel plastic Goblin wolf riders.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 17, 2019, 10:25:25 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on April 17, 2019, 09:55:59 PM
The plastic wargs make nice whfb goblin mounts I've found.
You're right, I might do a bit of face resculpting though... or not. I'll see what looks best.

Quote from: Mason on April 17, 2019, 10:06:20 PM
Maybe the old Grenadier wolves could work out too???
I have an old metal goblin wolf rider somewhere (80's version) and a few of those wolves somewhere.
I shall see if I can find them and take a look for ya if you want....



Thanks bud, I'm trying to keep it all GW based though (I don't know why but I don't like mixing brands too much)

Quote from: Cubs on April 17, 2019, 10:16:11 PM
They're on eBay quite a lot. I've recently been buying up the old Chronicle Orc Wolf riders and keep having to scroll through pages of Citadel plastic Goblin wolf riders.

Thanks. Just after wolves for now. Those old GW wolves were quite bad, too monopose for my liking, maybe a reason for them axing them?

Off to check for cheap wargs and fenrisian wolves. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 04:44:57 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on April 11, 2019, 06:18:29 PM
This is exactly why any GW talk is kept to this thread.

Every so many posts we may as well just post 'EVIL GAMES WORKSHOP' let those that want to nod in agreement and the rest of us get on with being rather less negative and trying to enjoy what GW has to offer to the hobby. Being the biggest gateway for youngsters into the hobby is just one of them.
Get over yourself...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 05:06:01 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on April 17, 2019, 10:36:51 AM
Pretty sure GW sees the middle-aged man spending his disposable income on their products as equally important as the kids these days. It is one of the main keys to their rejuvenation: we're the guys who spend the big money on their stuff, so keeping us happy is a priority.

If you think about it, in the West at least ours is the only generation where someone get into their 30s, is earning good money, and says "I want to buy all the toys I couldn't afford when I was 14".
Age is irrelevant, they're just banking on nostalgia and uncritical fanboys...

Who else would pay $35+ for a book of errata* every year? Blades of Khorne got a new book in 2 years and I bought mine in 2018. >:( Warhammer Chronicles is why I dropped out of WFB 6th edition and didn't come back til AoS and motivational discussion with a now former GW store manager. I skipped Ao$ 2.0 and now waiting 3.0 in a year or two - Warhammer works better in odd numbers or 3s. ;D Maybe if a mercenary faction is brought back...

*Yes, it's more than a book of errata, but GWdub$ is charging $10 more for less pages than in 2017 and 2016. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 05:08:52 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 17, 2019, 06:21:18 AM
Yeah, word of warning before discontinuation would be nice. I was looking for the old wolfriders the other day and couldn't find them. Probably been gone for years though. I guess I'll just have to buy some fenrisian wolves for my old metal wolfriders (actually I bought some chaos wolves instead, they might be good for Goblin mounts if I don't chaosify them too much)
I once asked Forge World why they removed Rhinoxen without notice and was told they didn't want to deal with panic buying... lol

Are the wolf riders in the 2018 General's Handbook? How about mercenary Orcs with crossbows? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 05:12:49 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on April 15, 2019, 06:51:20 PM
With the shipping it’s a bargain
Certified/registered mail, like for legal documents and jewelry, is around the $10 range, so might explain the price? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 18, 2019, 05:47:39 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 05:08:52 AM
Are the wolf riders in the 2018 General's Handbook? How about mercenary Orcs with crossbows?
No idea, last book I bought involving armies was many many years ago. I don't even know what the general's Handbook is  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on April 18, 2019, 09:23:19 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 18, 2019, 05:47:39 AM
No idea, last book I bought involving armies was many many years ago. I don't even know what the general's Handbook is  lol

General's handbook has the most updated rules/points for each race. Convenient, but little to no lore. New one's due out in a couple of months.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 18, 2019, 09:59:33 AM
It always bugged me, the idea of Orcs with missile weapons. Downright un-Orcy. I don't know what they're doing these days (as regards rules and profiles), but back when I still played Warhammer, they had a lower BS than WS, were T4 and cost a little more than a human. Giving them bows, even crossbows, just seemed a waste.

If only Goblins were allowed anything other than puny shortbows, they'd have had a decent missile option. But I guess that's the point of the Orcs and Goblins, you're encouraged to charge forward and get stuck in before animosity starts making everything go crazy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on April 18, 2019, 12:53:37 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 18, 2019, 09:59:33 AM
It always bugged me, the idea of Orcs with missile weapons. Downright un-Orcy. I don't know what they're doing these days (as regards rules and profiles), but back when I still played Warhammer, they had a lower BS than WS, were T4 and cost a little more than a human. Giving them bows, even crossbows, just seemed a waste.


It's funny how Warhammer has shaped our perceived thoughts around general Fantasy no matter how long ago we played it, I'm the same with Dwarves that they shouldn't have Wizards and Bows (Crossbows are ok mind).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 18, 2019, 12:56:23 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 18, 2019, 09:59:33 AM
It always bugged me, the idea of Orcs with missile weapons. Downright un-Orcy. I don't know what they're doing these days (as regards rules and profiles), but back when I still played Warhammer, they had a lower BS than WS, were T4 and cost a little more than a human. Giving them bows, even crossbows, just seemed a waste.

Which edition was that? I'm pretty sure Orcs always had WS and BS of 3 all the way through the first three editions. Hobgoblins had BS 2 (for reasons that were never explained; likewise Slann). T4 is right enough, though, and they were just a quarter-point more than a human - the higher toughness being offset by lower initiative.

For my money, the best Orcs Citadel/GW ever did was the first slottabased range by the Perry (some of which were based on the older armoured orcs, which I know you know and love!). One thing I really liked about that range is that they were quite Tolkienesque - bandy legs, long arms and some of the melee-equipped ones also toting bows (e.g. Axe Killer and Blane):

(http://www.solegends.com/citc/c015orcs2/fly198507fa-c15x-01.jpg)

Of course, the contemporary LotR range had lots of bow-armed orcs too; Tolkien seems to indicate that even the big fighting orcs in heavy armour carried bows too (the Uruk-hai in Isengard, the Uruk that gets shot by the tracker in Mordor). I've long wondered whether some of that C15 range were considered as candidates for the Red Eye or White Hand ranges (the likes of Shock Troop, Blade Bane, Sniper and Archer fit right in with those). And most of the biggest kills Orcs get in Middle Earth are achieved with arrows (e.g. Isildur, Balin and Boromir).

And even when Kev Adams took over from the Perrys, there were loads of Orc archers, including the second Harboth's set, and crossbowmen too. I used to like fielding lots of Orc archers in Warhammer, because they held up pretty well in exchanges of fire with other missile troops, thanks to their high T. When my Orc archers were lined up against a friend's high-elf archers at 12", the Orcs would tend to achieve slightly more casualties, thanks to the quirks of the Warhammer system (and much to my glee!)

So, I'd argue that bows used to be the quintessential Orc weapon in Warhammer!  :P

Not sure why the hobgoblins had BS 2. It might have been because there were only three hobgoblin archer models, or because of the Frenzy rule. Or it might just have been to keep their cost down relative to humans (hobgoblins were a bargain, though, thanks to Frenzy).

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 18, 2019, 01:47:16 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on April 18, 2019, 12:56:23 PM
Which edition was that?

Might have been 2 or 3.

I quite like those Orcs and I think they're my favourite slotta-based ones - I think they're the first generation slottas. But my all time faves will always be the pre-slotta C-series guys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 18, 2019, 01:50:41 PM
Quote from: Chico on April 18, 2019, 12:53:37 PM
It's funny how Warhammer has shaped our perceived thoughts around general Fantasy no matter how long ago we played it

Haha, yeah, despite devouring as many fantasy novels as I could find when a teenager, it is 3rd ed. Warhammer and the minis available at the time that still define my assumptions about these things. Dwarves do NOT cast spells  :) Wood elves are ninjas. And so on.

Always thought Orcs would go in for shooting though (all forms of killing would appeal to them), and could easily imagine them with guns actually. But that might be the early 90s Ork fluff (the louder the explosion the better) seeping into my fantasy tropes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 02:13:28 PM
Quote from: Chico on April 18, 2019, 12:53:37 PM
It's funny how Warhammer has shaped our perceived thoughts around general Fantasy no matter how long ago we played it, I'm the same with Dwarves that they shouldn't have Wizards and Bows (Crossbows are ok mind).

How about polearms and pikes? Dwarf wizards are fine, as they have worse stats than humans and I only recall Norse Dwarf models with bows. 

Perceived thoughts on Fantasy is dependent on which version of Warhammer shaped it: 1st-3rd, influenced by Tolkein, D&D and etc., diversity in opinions and list composition is normal, in contrast with increasing concepts of standardization in 4th and 5th, culminating in the buzzkill of 6th edition. Probably influenced by First Knight,  lol Bretonnians had the fun sucked out of 'em in 5th, though mercenaries were allowed - you could even include cannons, but lost the Lady's Favor - and gone in 6th, to languish in obscurity til cancellation. :-[ Saw a Youtube video lamenting the decline of Khorne into mindless savages, yet no one in the comments mentioned the forgotten technological aspects and thought missile weapons were dishonorable choices. lol 

Somewhat bemused over how some are so threatened enough by list options, based on their perceived notions of what something looks or behaves i fanatsy/sci-fi. Min/maxing tourney players and organizers are the worst and becasue of them, the Empire list lost Halflings, Dwarfs and Ogres and Dogs of War were gone by the end of 6th Edition. >:( Those tourney twats are why bases being unimportant for measuring in AoS 1.0/1.5 became standardized in Ao$ 2.0.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 02:24:38 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 18, 2019, 09:59:33 AM
It always bugged me, the idea of Orcs with missile weapons. Downright un-Orcy. I don't know what they're doing these days (as regards rules and profiles), but back when I still played Warhammer, they had a lower BS than WS, were T4 and cost a little more than a human. Giving them bows, even crossbows, just seemed a waste.

If only Goblins were allowed anything other than puny shortbows, they'd have had a decent missile option. But I guess that's the point of the Orcs and Goblins, you're encouraged to charge forward and get stuck in before animosity starts making everything go crazy.
While a waste to some for others it's option for fun and expression in gaming, especially Ruglud's Armored Orcs: I acquired 60 of the late 90s ones, as I like the look and the animosity rules were fun, though scrapped in 6th edition. :-[ Standard Orcs have been sidelined in Ao$, in favor of Black Orcs and pricey Super Black Orcs.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 02:36:07 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on April 18, 2019, 01:50:41 PM
Haha, yeah, despite devouring as many fantasy novels as I could find when a teenager, it is 3rd ed. Warhammer and the minis available at the time that still define my assumptions about these things. Dwarves do NOT cast spells  :) Wood elves are ninjas. And so on.

Always thought Orcs would go in for shooting though (all forms of killing would appeal to them), and could easily imagine them with guns actually. But that might be the early 90s Ork fluff (the louder the explosion the better) seeping into my fantasy tropes.
I think you've mixed up your editions...

Third Edition Dwarfs have wizards and they cast spells.

Wood Elves as ninja skirmishers weren't til 6th edition IIRC, along with the revised Beastmen, as in 4th an 5th, they weren't that different than High Elves, albeit with Wardancers.

Speaking of ninjas, Citadel had an extensive range, but they did nothing with 'em - even in 3rd they were limited. I would've liked to have a unit as generic or Regiment of Renown Dogs of War unit. On the Grand Alliance "safe zone", I asked about fielding 30 ninjas as Wardancers someone asked me: What's a Wardancer?  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on April 18, 2019, 05:06:23 PM
This garbage is horrific
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 05:14:32 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on April 18, 2019, 05:06:23 PM
This garbage is horrific

Iceman's the Ice Cream Man... :o

Who's that figure supposed to represent? The mail looks worse than what I've seen on 80s MM60 sculpts...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 18, 2019, 05:17:12 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 02:36:07 PM
I think you've mixed up your editions...

Ha, maybe, would have been early 1990s, Warhammer came in a box with high elves and goblins. Dwarves could not cast spells, and wardancers were by far the most effective wood elf unit (though treemen had their moments too).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 05:29:00 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on April 18, 2019, 05:17:12 PM
Ha, maybe, would have been early 1990s, Warhammer came in a box with high elves and goblins. Dwarves could not cast spells, and wardancers were by far the most effective wood elf unit (though treemen had their moments too).
That's 4th Edition with the rulebooks looking like they were bound from photocopies. Spent over a year reading White Dwarf, when it had small font and plenty of text, before acquiring the 3rd Edition softcover, but by the time I convinced my parents to get me Warhammer Armies, it'd been removed and replaced with another edition. Considering the orgy of colors and photos in the 3rd Ed book, I was disappointed with what came out of the boxed set, but now I know the reason for the lower production standards.

Wardancers were super, but the prior edition's rules had more details and High Elves had access to Sea Elf Wardancers, though I don't recall any specific sculpts. I didn't mind the Runecasters, but it would've been nice to have the option for spellcasters, maybe hailing from the expat community in the Empire, as their stats were awful - I guess GW wanted to differentiate from D&D.     

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 18, 2019, 05:31:03 PM
The head and sword arm look like they are from a different kit. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 18, 2019, 06:00:52 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 18, 2019, 01:47:16 PM
Might have been 2 or 3.

Definitely BS 3 for Orcs in both of those - were you robbed of untold arrow-based victories by dishonest opponents?!!

Quote from: Cubs on April 18, 2019, 01:47:16 PM
I quite like those Orcs and I think they're my favourite slotta-based ones - I think they're the first generation slottas. But my all time faves will always be the pre-slotta C-series guys.

Yes, those are the first slotta ones, though they share a lot of bodies and heads with the preslotta ones. The big difference, I think, is that the slotta-based ones got that consistent look with the underbite and upward-pointing tusks, whereas the earlier ones had that weird and wonderful variety of facial types - like that really hideous one with the long jaw that you've painted so well a couple of times.

Now I think about it, I wonder if that new uniformity was driven by the LotR range. Certainly, that first slotta-based range and their LotR peers are more physically coherent - more of a Middle Earth 'people' than the D&D-ish underworld monstrosities of the pres-slotta range, with their walrus tusks and huge fangs and elongated snouts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 18, 2019, 06:19:03 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on April 18, 2019, 06:00:52 PM
Definitely BS 3 for Orcs in both of those - were you robbed of untold arrow-based victories by dishonest opponents?!!

I'm a confused old man … stop hassling me.

Quote from: Hobgoblin on April 18, 2019, 06:00:52 PM
Certainly, that first slotta-based range and their LotR peers are more physically coherent - more of a Middle Earth 'people' than the D&D-ish underworld monstrosities of the pres-slotta range, with their walrus tusks and huge fangs and elongated snouts.

Yeah, those early pre-slottas still seem very much like deformed humanoid stylie beastmen or sea demons or whatnot, before shaking out into the recognised ape-pig style things they later became.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on April 18, 2019, 07:45:48 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on April 18, 2019, 05:17:12 PM
Ha, maybe, would have been early 1990s, Warhammer came in a box with high elves and goblins. Dwarves could not cast spells, and wardancers were by far the most effective wood elf unit (though treemen had their moments too).

That's 4th edition.

My entrance into Warhammer was that box set, but mine was second hand and didn't have the rulebooks!!! It did have the quick reference playsheets though, which is how I learnt the basic rules. It had the plastic high elves and goblins, a couple of card buildings, bright green card movement trays, some cardboard cutouts of a bolt thrower, Eltharion the Grim, Grom the Paunch, an orc shaman on a wyvern and an orc stone thrower.... to use until you bought the models of course. And I think it had a few of the  magic item cards.... I remember Sword of Teclis. I also had a White Dwarf from the same era, which had among other things showcases of the metal High Elves that were released alongside the plastics in the box set (which I absolutely fell in love with), and a battle report with Dwarfs vs Bretonnians (the latter in their pre-Arthurian rendition, when they were basically just medieval French).

By the time I actually got a friend interested in collecting Warhammer with me, the 5th edition was out. (For all I know actually it might have already been out when I got my 2nd hand 4th edition stuff). He promptly got the 5th edition starter set, with plastic Bretonnians and Lizardmen... and RULEBOOKS! So I could actually learn how the rules worked in full. Borrowing his rulebooks of course, my pocket money didn't stretch that far. He also somehow got hold of a complete Lizardman army with all the new metal releases (i.e. his parents bought it all for him, and I think his dad painted it all..... I always suspected he'd never painted anything himself, as after this initial purchase and painting spree all his new things were fielded unpainted and often half-assembled!)
He also got the Magic supplement with the hundreds of cards for all the different spells and magic items....
Whilst i was still saving up my pocket money and adding to my beloved High Elf army one blister pack at a time! The 5th edition High Elf army book was read through over and over again.


Somewhere along the way we got hold of a MASSIVE haul of old White Dwarf issues from a carboot sale, all dating from the 3rd edition days (or earlier). I had hours of fun reading through them and was amazed at the Warhammer that was before we got into it. And it had ROLEPLAY scenarios, I hadn't a clue what they were about at first.... the statlines had extra stats like 'intelligence' and 'willpower'! I really loved the old-school look of the 3rd edition era I saw in these WD issues, and decided to order loads of the old Wood Elf sculpts - this was back when if you could find the codes online, you could call up mail order and order them one by one....

Somewhere around that time Mordheim came out, and we both got into that and probably played it more than WFB, got a few friends into it too. That was a seriously good game for its time.

The 6th edition of WFB came out shortly afterwards which I remember was VERY exciting, new plastic sets for all the armies, new rulebooks, new army books, certain armies getting complete overhauls! I liked the rule changes at the time, it did make for better, smoother games.

And then we actually got hold of the WFRP rulebook and pretty much switched just to Roleplay, with me as the Gamesmaster for a year or two... Before we outgrew it a bit, went our separate ways....




Just a trip down memory lane there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on April 18, 2019, 08:26:36 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on April 18, 2019, 05:14:32 PM
Iceman's the Ice Cream Man... :o

Who's that figure supposed to represent? The mail looks worse than what I've seen on 80s MM60 sculpts...
It's supposed to be Eowyn from Lord of the rings.
We also get a crippled horse and deformed hobbit
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 18, 2019, 08:31:42 PM
 lol  lol lol That horse posing is hilarious...it's almost a caption contest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 18, 2019, 09:06:36 PM
I'm getting the impression that GW are directing their best sculpting talent to areas other than LoTR  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 18, 2019, 09:43:25 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on April 18, 2019, 01:50:41 PM
Always thought Orcs would go in for shooting though (all forms of killing would appeal to them), and could easily imagine them with guns actually. But that might be the early 90s Ork fluff (the louder the explosion the better) seeping into my fantasy tropes.

Might you have got it from The Hobbit?

Quote
It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them, and also not working with their own hands more than they could help; but in those days and those wild parts they had not advanced (as it is called) so far.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 18, 2019, 10:11:30 PM
Sometimes you just have to wonder who rubber-stamped those designs through quality control, "Meh, it'll do!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 19, 2019, 12:18:59 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on April 18, 2019, 08:26:36 PM
It's supposed to be Eowyn from Lord of the rings.
We also get a crippled horse and deformed hobbit

Eowyn?!?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qZgjwh7Wo4o/hqdefault.jpg)

Seriously, what was wrong with the older sculpts? Even redone in Finecast it looks better than this version...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 19, 2019, 07:29:20 AM
Quote from: Charlie_ on April 18, 2019, 07:45:48 PM

Just a trip down memory lane there.

A lovely trip! I have no fond memories of Warhammer 4th ed, because I chose to play Dark Elves. I painfully saved up over $100NZD for a 10-man unit of Cold One riders, which were then completely fucking useless (heavy cavalry with a 4+ save, I don't think so). Even the assassins sucked, as they couldn't beat heroes tooled up with magic items once the magic supplement came out.
I mean, it wasn't like we were playing that competitively or anything, but the DE army just didn't have anything fun. You set up your minis, they died without doing much, you wished you'd played 2nd ed. Space Marine instead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on April 19, 2019, 08:55:35 AM
Filled in the survey. Wasn't too bad, and I think shows GW willing to see where it should direct its efforts/resources.

And learnt something new, that Canadians need to answer a skill-testing question:
https://www.thebalanceeveryday.com/why-have-skill-testing-questions-for-sweepstakes-896839

(And that the Canadian province of Quebec has annexed Rhode Island without us knowing.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on April 19, 2019, 11:28:15 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on April 19, 2019, 12:18:59 AM
Eowyn?!?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qZgjwh7Wo4o/hqdefault.jpg)

Seriously, what was wrong with the older sculpts? Even redone in Finecast it looks better than this version...
It's odd how so much perry stuff they seem to want to replace. Gives me the impression they want no association with them.
But under the license the figures were supposed to be signed off by the actors...
Something tells me that's not the case or someone isn't bothering.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 19, 2019, 08:38:07 PM
More just very slowly phasing out metal (and finecast) products. As they've been doing for years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 19, 2019, 09:57:57 PM
But damn...if a jobs worth doing its worth doing well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on April 19, 2019, 11:00:24 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on April 19, 2019, 09:57:57 PM
But damn...if a jobs worth doing its worth doing well.
I think you just confused GW
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 20, 2019, 08:19:09 AM
 lol Well i suppose to do a job well you need differing opinions but GW are only after yes-men...cos everything they do is...like...totally awesome!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 20, 2019, 02:13:59 PM
I sometimes wonder if GW is run similarly to the Dilbert cartoon strip's  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 20, 2019, 10:40:53 PM
Tbf, GW have some of the best miniatures in the market out there. Their plastics are often hands down better than the majority of the market.

There was a time when this wasn't the case, late '90's to early 2000's. The likes of the battle for skull pass, were horrendous and a step backwards.

Now it's very different.

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99121499042_EowynandMerry04.jpg)
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99121499042_EowynandMerry03.jpg)

Looks to me like the set gives you the option of two ways to model Eowyn, I don't think the angle, possibly way it's been glued to the base of paint jobs are helping it massively. But I don't see a lot wrong with them myself.

Better pictures:
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99121499042_EowynandMerry02.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 12:39:17 AM
Still looks crap, especially the mail, and what's with the horse's head?

The GWanboyz will lap it up, regardless of the price...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on April 21, 2019, 09:24:53 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on April 20, 2019, 10:40:53 PM
Tbf, GW have some of the best miniatures in the market out there. Their plastics are often hands down better than the majority of the market.
Sticking on junk disguised as detail and blobby cad smoke and sharp cad fire is hardly "some of the best"
XD
Quote from: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 12:39:17 AM
The GWanboyz will lap it up, regardless of the price...
GW can do not wrong. They are the greatest ever.
That's why 90% of their models are never bought by the fans because they don't fit a Meta XD
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 21, 2019, 11:57:13 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 12:39:17 AM
Still looks crap, especially the mail, and what's with the horse's head?

The GWanboyz will lap it up, regardless of the price...

So why come on this thread? Just to bash?

I can't see anything wrong with the mail, lets put it another way, a good 80% of the miniatures market produces worse looking mail.

Quote from: JamesValentine on April 21, 2019, 09:24:53 AM
Sticking on junk disguised as detail and blobby cad smoke and sharp cad fire is hardly "some of the best"
XDGW can do not wrong. They are the greatest ever.

That's why 90% of their models are never bought by the fans because they don't fit a Meta XD

That's why they keep making profit after profit in a world where most miniature companies aren't? So far, all you have done is come on this thread to slag off stuff.

This model doesn't look feminine enough for you. A previous miniature was too slim and not masculine looking enough for you.

All this has proven so far is you folks just want to slag something off so find this thread to hijack and slate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 21, 2019, 02:52:50 PM
I dunno, McFonz, the thread is for all GW discussion, right? That includes slagging them off (justified in the case of those LoTR figures I'd say, whereas the new Keeper of Secrets - now that is stunning sculpting!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 21, 2019, 03:57:31 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on April 21, 2019, 02:52:50 PM
I dunno, McFonz, the thread is for all GW discussion, right?

Yah but page after page of people slagging the same mini gets boring after a while. It’s crap. We all get it. Move on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 21, 2019, 03:57:49 PM
Sure, if you think trolling is good.

These  may not be GW's best but they're still not as crap as being claimed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 04:33:20 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on April 21, 2019, 11:57:13 AM
So why come on this thread? Just to bash?

I can't see anything wrong with the mail, lets put it another way, a good 80% of the miniatures market produces worse looking mail.

Lighten up Francis...

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=57122.msg1455486#msg1455486

You're either happy with "any GW talk is kept to this thread" or you're not!

You're clearly a passionate bloke, so The Grand Alliance Community (https://www.tga.community/) might be a better fit?

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/10999-stop-with-the-complaining-and-remember-why-we-have-tga/

It's a nice safe space/echo chamber complete with various types of "like buttons" and a mod who gives you penalty points for criticism he doesn't consider constructive, though what's constructive is relative based on his bias. lol

I'd like to see some data concerning this good 80% producing worse looking mail and are you differentiating between metal, resin and styrene?

It's possible the horse is supposed to be an Arabian, due to the smallish head and high carried tail, and since the films were shot in New Zealand, might explain the sculpting source.   

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 04:36:07 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on April 21, 2019, 03:57:31 PM
Yah but page after page of people slagging the same mini gets boring after a while. It’s crap. We all get it. Move on.
How many pages on this thread and how many pages specifically "slagging" the same mini? How would you feel about page after page praising it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 21, 2019, 06:04:10 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 04:33:20 PM
Lighten up Francis...

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=57122.msg1455486#msg1455486

You're either happy with "any GW talk is kept to this thread" or you're not!

Not sure what your point is. I was pointing out that this thread exists because people can't keep it reasonable. Critique is one thing, but some statements you are making are rubbish. And I don't see you on threads elsewhere slating other miniatures for even worse chainmail...

Also you have history. You are a troll. You've history elsewhere, grinding forums into the rubbish of purely gas-lighting. Which is exactly what you are doing here.

Quote from: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 04:33:20 PM
You're clearly a passionate bloke, so The Grand Alliance Community (https://www.tga.community/) might be a better fit?

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/10999-stop-with-the-complaining-and-remember-why-we-have-tga/

It's a nice safe space/echo chamber complete with various types of "like buttons" and a mod who gives you penalty points for criticism he doesn't consider constructive, though what's constructive is relative based on his bias. lol

I've no interest of going anywhere else - you know this isn't a certain other site right? You know that the entire approach to this place is meant to be on the whole more positive, whilst constructive criticism is good, slating something for being utter crap isn't. And you don't seem to jump on other sculpts elsewhere for the same issues...

Quote from: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 04:33:20 PM
I'd like to see some data concerning this good 80% producing worse looking mail and are you differentiating between metal, resin and styrene?

There is a huge chunk of the historical market where the mail is not as good as that displayed on this mini. Mainly because being handsculpted it takes a hell of a lot more time and effort to sculpt actual links.

Quote from: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 04:33:20 PM
It's possible the horse is supposed to be an Arabian, due to the smallish head and high carried tail, and since the films were shot in New Zealand, might explain the sculpting source.

Wait, you think the movies might actually have been the sculpting source?!! Wow. NSS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Braxandur on April 21, 2019, 07:10:44 PM
Guys, I think it is time to take a step back and calm down a bit ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 07:18:56 PM
Quote from: Braxandur on April 21, 2019, 07:10:44 PM
Guys, I think it is time to take a step back and calm down a bit ;)
Have been replying calmly to (he who shall not be named), but that personal attack was unwarranted - did I insult a relative?:D Will calmly reply back later tonight, but he'll call me names again... :'(

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on April 21, 2019, 07:23:09 PM
I'd prefer nobody calling anybody anything except their given names under appropriate circumstances.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 21, 2019, 10:54:49 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on April 21, 2019, 04:36:07 PM
How many pages on this thread and how many pages specifically "slagging" the same mini? How would you feel about page after page praising it?

Get over yourself and move on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 21, 2019, 11:36:32 PM
So I heard a rumour that there are going to be non chaos factions for that new warhammer fantasy skirmish thing (the one that previewed new chaps furies).
Anyone else seen this, I heard about it but haven't seen anything on the met myself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on April 22, 2019, 12:00:02 AM
I found this:
https://aosshorts.com/warcry-age-of-sigmar/

Which links to this tweet:
https://twitter.com/WHWeeklyTom/status/1105824894686769156/photo/1
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on April 22, 2019, 12:06:46 AM
It was in the Warhammer Community adepticon post. The photo with the faction logos is gone, though it’s in the link Von Lucky posted.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/28/breaking-news-dark-power-unleashed/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/28/breaking-news-dark-power-unleashed/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 22, 2019, 12:33:07 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on April 21, 2019, 10:54:49 PM
Get over yourself and move on.
The truth comes out...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 22, 2019, 12:54:19 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 21, 2019, 11:36:32 PM
So I heard a rumour that there are going to be non chaos factions for that new warhammer fantasy skirmish thing (the one that previewed new chaps furies).
Anyone else seen this, I heard about it but haven't seen anything on the met myself.

The videos have shown icons for other factions and one of them is clearly Orks so there will be non-chaos factions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 22, 2019, 12:58:33 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 21, 2019, 11:36:32 PM
So I heard a rumour that there are going to be non chaos factions for that new warhammer fantasy skirmish thing (the one that previewed new chaps furies).
Anyone else seen this, I heard about it but haven't seen anything on the met myself.
Assume Undead, Orcs, $igmarines, and etc... :`

Don't expect normal humans, even though they're the bulk of the population in this Poor Man's Planescape setting. :(

On the plus side, based on the art, there might be some decent pantless barbarians and I hope they replace those godawful muscle suit wearing Chaos Marauders.

(https://i2.wp.com/aosshorts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/w8.png?fit=1380%2C565)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 22, 2019, 01:18:43 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on April 19, 2019, 11:28:15 AM
It's odd how so much perry stuff they seem to want to replace. Gives me the impression they want no association with them.
But under the license the figures were supposed to be signed off by the actors...
Something tells me that's not the case or someone isn't bothering.
Are figures still ascribed to "The Citadel Design Team" or was this also dropped?

Didn't know about the actors signing off on sculpts, just knew the purchased license prevented figures being in the same scale and IIRC, some phobia about mixing the ranges in tournaments. 

Thought of buying some Lake-town Guard for use as Kislevites, but

1) They're pricey resin, not styrene

2) The mail is off and some of the details look soft.

The best Empire plastics produced by the Perrys were the multipart ones, with metal guns and crossbows, from 98/99 - 20 for $19.99 and included a movement tray. I understand the need to Warhammerify human figures, but those bags of skulls should've been an option on the sprue, instead of powder monkeys and bottles. Had the Perrys done the new range in 7th, Empire payers wouldn't be trawling eBay for spare heads from the previous Warhammer and Mordheim ranges, to replace the simian caricatures - the archers and greatswords look fine. The prices are ridiculous, especially for greatswords, as $19.99 in 1999 would be $30.50 today, but it's $24.75 for 10 figures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 22, 2019, 01:53:08 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on April 21, 2019, 06:04:10 PM
Not sure what your point is. I was pointing out that this thread exists because people can't keep it reasonable. Critique is one thing, but some statements you are making are rubbish. And I don't see you on threads elsewhere slating other miniatures for even worse chainmail...

My point is: you're contradicting yourself...

It's only rubbish, because you're biased and now whataboutism?!? lol
Quote from: mcfonz on April 21, 2019, 06:04:10 PM
Also you have history. You are a troll. You've history elsewhere, grinding forums into the rubbish of purely gas-lighting. Which is exactly what you are doing here.
Temper tantrum already?

You must think I'm some kind of super master baiter...

Care to list the forums?

Quote from: mcfonz on April 21, 2019, 06:04:10 PM
I've no interest of going anywhere else - you know this isn't a certain other site right? You know that the entire approach to this place is meant to be on the whole more positive, whilst constructive criticism is good, slating something for being utter crap isn't. And you don't seem to jump on other sculpts elsewhere for the same issues...

Then kindly don't be rude about it...

Need I bring up why you fled to Random Platypus?

Whataboutism again...

FYI, I was "pretty harsh" on those Pro-Gloria/Warlord Landsknechts for similar reasons...

Quote from: mcfonz on April 21, 2019, 06:04:10 PM
There is a huge chunk of the historical market where the mail is not as good as that displayed on this mini. Mainly because being handsculpted it takes a hell of a lot more time and effort to sculpt actual links.

Now you dropped percentages, 'cause you couldn't back it up. lol What happened to fantasy and sci-fi?

Quote from: mcfonz on April 21, 2019, 06:04:10 PM
Wait, you think the movies might actually have been the sculpting source?!! Wow. NSS.
Completely went over your head and thanks again for the insult...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on April 22, 2019, 06:16:23 AM
Guys, please stop this. It's not going anywhere. You've made your respective points and all this is merely causing aggravation for no tangible result.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on April 22, 2019, 07:41:59 AM
I like trains
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 22, 2019, 08:57:58 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on April 22, 2019, 07:41:59 AM
I like trains

Squat land trains, am I right?  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 22, 2019, 09:03:57 AM
Good to see everyone having such a lovely, pleasant holiday weekend.....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 22, 2019, 09:56:59 AM
Can't remember if it's in your personal profile or accessed via the relevant other person's profile, but there is an option on this forum to ignore other users. This means their posts simply won't be displayed to you anymore. Everybody is free to say whatever they want, but it is everybody's own choice who they listen to. Which in turn means everybody else can just go back to discussing what they like and don't like about little plastic soldiers like normal responsible adults.

Quote from: beefcake on April 21, 2019, 11:36:32 PM
So I heard a rumour that there are going to be non chaos factions for that new warhammer fantasy skirmish thing (the one that previewed new chaps furies).
Anyone else seen this, I heard about it but haven't seen anything on the met myself.
I guess (and a pure guess it is) that they simply create rules for little warbands of other factions to more easily attract players (you can A: use existing models, and B: use your favourite race, rather than different flavours of Chaos). Probably a good move for creating a player base, although it risks upsetting the theme a bit, in the same way that a local group may have more Genestealer Cult than House gangs in a Necromunda campaign, or Tomb Kings and Lizardmen in Mordheim. Anyway, maybe they'll create some bundles for particular warbands of other factions, but I won't be expecting any new models for them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 22, 2019, 11:02:24 AM
I think there is a chance we may see some new minis for other factions. The only new models Kill Team introduced was the terrain whereas the WarCry box seems to have all new minis and terrain so they are kinda setting a precedent. Obviously it all depends upon what the aim for the game is; the Kill Team starter is no longer available so maybe WarCry will stay around longer...or maybe they will just repackage everything.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on April 22, 2019, 11:03:24 AM
Don't see the problem with Eowyn and Merry figure. Extreme close up photos tend to make any 28mm figure look subpar. And the mail looks pretty decent to me, better than a lot of historical shite where the sculptor just pushes holes into the putty. I'm not a GW fanboy, they lost me years ago when the prices rocketed, but even so, they do make bloody nice models. If the criticism was about the price tag, I could agree, but the sculpt itself looks pretty damn good to me. Most of the companies putting out mundane plastics would love their models to be this "crap". Different strokes, different folks I guess.

Meanwhile, loving the new Slaanesh greater daemon kit, beautiful stuff. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on April 22, 2019, 11:36:56 AM
As you say, I think the close up photo doesn't help, and the particular painting style used (little blob highlights on the face, etc) doesn't suit close up photography a lot of the time but looks excellent at tabletop distance. I'd agree that GW still make some of the best plastic kits, particularly in terms of technical proficiency (sprue design is really a cut above), my personal opinion is that the art style they go for now is a bit too far in the cartoony and overly-detailed direction for my tastes, but if you like that style then they've never been better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 22, 2019, 11:54:30 AM
But then thats a key point...this model should be sculpted in the same style so it fits in with the existing range.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 22, 2019, 01:58:22 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on April 22, 2019, 11:54:30 AM
But then thats a key point...this model should be sculpted in the same style so it fits in with the existing range.

Maybe it’s a difference between physical and 3D sculpting?

Quote from: Gibby on April 22, 2019, 11:36:56 AM
my personal opinion is that the art style they go for now is a bit too far in the cartoony and overly-detailed direction for my tastes, but if you like that style then they've never been better.

I think that this tendency can be seen in some of the new Sylvaneth models for Underworlds. They seem more stylised than previous models in the range and ‘softer’ in terms of details. It’s a style that works for something meant to be cartoony like Goblins but looks really odd in the burgle daemons.

They appear to be able to stray from it for models like the new Khorne warbeasts.

Mind you the new Slaanesh Greater Daemon models seem exquisite so they can stray into more detailed and realistic models when they have a bigger physical canvas to draw onto
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 22, 2019, 02:10:18 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on April 22, 2019, 08:57:58 AM
Squat land trains, am I right?  :D
I would've loved to see a Squat Land Train in 40K, just look at the Chaos Dwarf Daemon powered one...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 22, 2019, 03:27:09 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on April 22, 2019, 11:02:24 AM
I think there is a chance we may see some new minis for other factions.

Well I would think that they would want to recycle their existing ranges but they seem to be eager to create new sculpts for Underworld. It might depend on how many models you need for the game and what type. Underworld has new models but that always strikes me as a) a way to push sales of the game and b) because the game needs some grunts and a command model or two and the AoS models aren't package in that fashion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 22, 2019, 03:37:19 PM
That's true...the new Chaos Guys could be a way to release new Dark Oath minis prior to them being reboxed in AoS size units.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 22, 2019, 03:54:40 PM
Quote from: Nord on April 22, 2019, 11:03:24 AM
Don't see the problem with Eowyn and Merry figure. Extreme close up photos tend to make any 28mm figure look subpar. And the mail looks pretty decent to me, better than a lot of historical shite where the sculptor just pushes holes into the putty. I'm not a GW fanboy, they lost me years ago when the prices rocketed, but even so, they do make bloody nice models. If the criticism was about the price tag, I could agree, but the sculpt itself looks pretty damn good to me. Most of the companies putting out mundane plastics would love their models to be this "crap". Different strokes, different folks I guess.

Meanwhile, loving the new Slaanesh greater daemon kit, beautiful stuff.
I have no problem with people having no problem with this model, but the close up clearly shows whoever designed it, whether by hand or by software, produced holes instead of something looking close to links: should look more like "Cs", due to the holes being close together and when worn, in horizontal rows across the body and vertically with sleeves. Notice how it doesn't hang naturally on the extended arm? I noticed the same problem with the Rackham Confrontation Mercenary Captain, except with lower half of the body. The thing is, this has always been the case with GW plastics, such as plastic Black Orcs and Chaos Marauder cavalry, and they haven't even attempted at improvement, which is why I ascribed the label - it can be done reasonably, like Perry plastics. I've given up on sculpting decent mail on conversions, so bought the smallest texture plate from Greenstuffworld. 

     
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on April 22, 2019, 09:31:13 PM
Looking at this:
(https://i1.wp.com/test.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/AdepticonReveals-Mar27-WarcryWarbands22kvrjhqqc-500x282.jpg?resize=500%2C282)

There will be Orks, Goblins, Dark elves girls, Some other elves ? (my bet is undersea ones), Vampires, Ghosts, Sigmarines and something :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 22, 2019, 10:19:23 PM
Whats the one top left...is that Ogors?

The rest...Witch Elves, Vampires, Goblins, Sea Elves, Orruks, Dark Elves and the Golden Boyz...thats my guess at least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on April 22, 2019, 10:59:55 PM
My guess for the top left is Bonesplitterz rather then Gutbuster Ogors (but could go either way), along with Daughters of Khaine, Soulblight Vampires, Gloomspite Gitz, Stormcast, Ironjawz and the last 2 I'm unsure off but guessing Privateers and Nighthaunt at a push.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 23, 2019, 03:25:03 AM
I'm hoping Ogors, I've wanted a reason to make a small band of them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 23, 2019, 03:32:31 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 23, 2019, 03:25:03 AM
I'm hoping Ogors, I've wanted a reason to make a small band of them.
I get the impression GW doesn't know what to do with Ogres, but at least they haven't been scrapped like basic Orcs and Goblins...

I'm still waiting for Maneaters as a faction or part of a "neutral" mercenary group - weren't Fyreslayers supposed to be mercenaries?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 23, 2019, 03:34:42 AM
Yeah, I just had a look at the site and they only have mounted options (plus the hunter) Maneaters would be great and would actually make a great faction for this
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on April 23, 2019, 03:49:32 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 23, 2019, 03:34:42 AM
Yeah, I just had a look at the site and they only have mounted options (plus the hunter) Maneaters would be great and would actually make a great faction for this
In AoS 1.0, with the General's Handbook, I was planning a Maneater company of 1 or 2 groups and 2 or 3 regular Ogre "recruits" - to fulfill the minimum unit requirement. Since Ruglud's Armored Orcs/Mercenary Orruks were also available, points permitting, would've included one or two units - have 60 I'd like to be able to use again.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on April 23, 2019, 09:17:54 AM
Splitting Ogors into 4 factions at the start of AoS (2 of which only had a single option) was a tad silly of ol' GW but hopefully just like the Skaven and the Gitz book they'll all be rolled back into one.

I would even be happy if they kept Beastclaw Raiders and Gutbusters separate but allowed Firebellies and Maneaters back into one the main factions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on April 26, 2019, 01:36:58 PM
Well, as I missed the Kill Team box ( who'd have guessed they'd oop'd it after 3 months ) I won't let this one escape me. Like the preview models and I really like the current way of playing GW's ( specialist ) games. Quick play, easy to get a grip with the rules and enough depth to keep it a challenge. And the small miniature count means it's nugh impossible to stick with one warband/gang/team but rather collect them all...
2 years ago, who'd have thought I turned out to be a GW-fanboy  o_o.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on April 28, 2019, 11:46:15 PM
New battle box.
Only two new models but Gobbo knight is cool
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58576610_10157172238828236_7891585073017782272_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=55917300867f3f18822f286191a2969b&oe=5D695A3F)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 29, 2019, 08:05:41 AM
I love this guy, I think GW nailed him.

The tree-fella though doesn't work for me, the pose is off with regards to the wings. If they want the wings out then the pose needs to be more dynamic if not then the wings need to be tucked away. Winged creatures only get the wings out to fly, stretch or for display so having wings out while just resting a foot on a rock look off. Plus, wielding a glaive with wings out is a recipe for disaster. I also think combining a buckler with a glaive is daft, the two weapons just don't make any sense going together.

Having said all that I'm fairly sure such concerns could be sorted with conversion work.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on April 29, 2019, 09:33:41 AM
I like him, but apart from Incubi helmet he is not to interesting to me.
But I like non dynamic models better and better as I grow older. Almost always there is something awkward in overly dynamic poses.. o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on April 29, 2019, 09:44:48 AM
GW really have been nailing all the AoS content this year and I'm quite enjoying being surprised by whats next.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 29, 2019, 09:45:42 AM
Looking at the rider, I just realised how the new night goblin look draws a bit from the goblins in Labyrinth. 10/10 for me, shame I'll never have any use for them.

Tree guy has excellent green mechanicvm conversion potential, so I'm keen, but I totally agree about the wings. Still better than the recent shadespire warband minis for the same faction. I thought that vine-legs mini would be great, but actually it looks very unconvincing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on April 29, 2019, 09:46:30 AM
I was surprised by lack of Warcry so not all of the surprises from GW are cool  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on April 29, 2019, 01:10:24 PM
I want them to do a super-over-the-top redo of the clubbers and netters from the 90’s now!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 29, 2019, 01:29:09 PM
I can see it as two models in one...the netter flinging out the net, swirling it around to ensnare an opponent...the clubber meanwhile is jumping over the netter to bring his oversized club down on said opponent. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 30, 2019, 09:35:30 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on April 29, 2019, 01:10:24 PM
I want them to do a super-over-the-top redo of the clubbers and netters from the 90’s now!
Or maybe someone that has been recreating nostalgia miniatures could do that...  ;)
But I agree, I'd love to see some clubbers wielding oak trees  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on April 30, 2019, 12:22:46 PM
Arhhh, i loved the old Netters and Clubbers minis though the LE ones were even better.

(http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/images/8/81/Limited_Release_-_Goblin_Night_Goblin_Netters_Pair_2.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 30, 2019, 01:20:55 PM
I need to see a diorama of these two getting ready to attack some big beastie (typical goblin lack of sense) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 30, 2019, 09:17:20 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on April 30, 2019, 01:20:55 PM
I need to see a diorama of these two getting ready to attack some big beastie (typical goblin lack of sense) :D
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/58/26/b1/5826b1ac950f3b8b43b83f710378cb6e.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 30, 2019, 09:37:00 PM
 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 30, 2019, 10:03:29 PM
Okay, I'm officially snorting through my nose and shaking my shoulders at that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on May 04, 2019, 10:19:34 PM
What is best in life? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiKPCLVQ6n4)
 lol lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 04, 2019, 11:17:21 PM
I want to watch Conan again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 04, 2019, 11:38:45 PM
I am getting  tired of these content free teaser videos they post.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 04, 2019, 11:53:53 PM
This is pure gem.. :-*
Straight after watching I undercoated my Underworlds barbarians :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 05, 2019, 08:05:57 AM
Quote from: McMordain on May 04, 2019, 10:19:34 PM
What is best in life? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiKPCLVQ6n4)
 lol lol lol lol
I missed that one, thanks for posting it - I am glad GW have found their sense of humour again  lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: gmanrocks on May 05, 2019, 10:34:17 AM
Just wondering if anyone was planning on going to Warhammer Fest this year? If you are, would you mind picking me up the exclusive Blood Bowl Minotaur? Just drop me a PM if you can help.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on May 06, 2019, 09:48:54 AM
The iron hands tech boy ain't too bad.
Created allot of whinging about beige a primaris.
But it's been 2 years now? Probably time to get over it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 06, 2019, 11:21:43 AM
The only element of this I dislike is the heavy bolter and its ammo belt...honestly there must be more ammo held in that massive belt than in the tiny ammo box.

Apart from that he's cracking.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 06, 2019, 07:50:48 PM
I can’t help but see him as having a narrow, droopy moustache!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on May 06, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on May 06, 2019, 07:50:48 PM
I can’t help but see him as having a narrow, droopy moustache!  lol

Wait that is not a moustache?  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Predatorpt on May 07, 2019, 12:54:48 AM
Quote from: McMordain on May 06, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
Wait that is not a moustache?  :o

Yeah...thought it was a moustache also  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 07, 2019, 08:04:37 AM
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/be951b7ec298cc6d571a83a55ff4b8c3/tumblr_nv1okyFg1r1uquzqvo1_400.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 07, 2019, 09:07:39 AM
I'm in the same boat.

I like the look of the new kill team elites. My son will be happy to see the death guard elite lord of contagion in there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 07, 2019, 09:38:45 PM
It is mustache overflowing respirator  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 07, 2019, 11:16:17 PM
We need the official line on the moustache/respirator debate!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 07, 2019, 11:38:50 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on May 07, 2019, 11:16:17 PM
We need the official line on the moustache/respirator debate!

Why can't it be both?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 08, 2019, 07:41:17 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on May 06, 2019, 07:50:48 PM
I can’t help but see him as having a narrow, droopy moustache!  lol

Dogdangit! Now that can't be unseen!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 08, 2019, 08:39:57 AM
Quote from: Daeothar on May 08, 2019, 07:41:17 AM
Dogdangit! Now that can't be unseen!  lol

It is a great idea - he is a techy - its obviously a very advanced, approved  moustacherator. probably has to pray to it while applying sanctioned lubricants etc to ensure it droops precisely.

used to filter gases,liquids and solids, whilst providing a source of emergency rations in it fibres from previous meals, when needed.

Brilliant idea and all space marines should have one under their helmets as a secondary resperator.. if they don't already.

VEry useful when they get promoted to a higher rank and lose their ranged weapons and helmet, and have to go close quarters/charge everything with their bladed/chainsawed/powered weapon of choice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 08, 2019, 03:27:47 PM
Absolutely. I've seen one or two of these that could be considered a weapon in their own right...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on May 08, 2019, 05:49:51 PM
So Series 3 of the Space Marines Heroes have gone too Chaos.

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59665643_2321768241221335_7249310964879720448_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=6466287bfa82855dc09d0906c8e5021e&oe=5D2D9CBE)

(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59376044_2321768301221329_8245296396010258432_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=868c94fa881989e0856d7d1432ab44f8&oe=5D2B3766)

Not bad at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 08, 2019, 08:45:04 PM
Blimey they are doing some nice stuff there, and although the first does seem to be over compensating, they are lacking skulls, in a positive way and the detail is nice without being too overloaded.

I am almost tempted to go nurgles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 09, 2019, 01:45:40 AM
The details look a bit soft and the drops on the armour and the weapons are huge and look cartoony.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 09, 2019, 05:59:09 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 09, 2019, 01:45:40 AM
the drops on the armour and the weapons are huge and look cartoony.

These are really large images at eye level though. They probably look just fine on the tabletop, and in fact might not be properly noticeable if they were sculpted at the "correct" size.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on May 09, 2019, 06:40:33 PM
I'm not convinced its very dark and menacing to be welding a cannon that fires honey.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on May 09, 2019, 07:02:57 PM
Quote from: tin shed gamer on May 09, 2019, 06:40:33 PM
I'm not convinced its very dark and menacing to be welding a cannon that fires honey.

Ha! Perhaps it's just escaphism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaphism) ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on May 09, 2019, 07:10:27 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on May 09, 2019, 07:02:57 PM
Ha! Perhaps it's just escaphism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaphism) ...

Honey, that's not honey. It's Nurgle juice ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on May 09, 2019, 07:21:08 PM
Don't worry Honey its only nurgle juice !
Is not something you want to here on a first date.

Still looks like a lovecraft inspired bee keeper.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 09, 2019, 07:31:15 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 09, 2019, 05:59:09 PM
These are really large images at eye level though. They probably look just fine on the tabletop, and in fact might not be properly noticeable if they were sculpted at the "correct" size.

If it is like any of the previous minis then I suspect that the photo is indicative of how it looks 'in the plastic'.

The Nurgle figures don't have any of the same sort of menace that their new Chaos Marines do. They have done a soft, rounded look to them all with exaggerated external elements (like the enormous flies) that really don't make the figures look menacing. Same thing with the Gellerpox models and the new Nurgle daemon characters.

The range has a 'melted icecream' look to it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 09, 2019, 09:48:57 PM
I guess this is natural for Nurgle. He is Father Nurgle and quite friendly and funny fellow :>
A least in the old fluff i know...  I lost co tact with modern GW long ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on May 09, 2019, 11:07:42 PM
I must admit I much prefered An Imperium run by  the nepotism of civil servants with a zombie emperor whos day job was air traffic control and ate his descendants on his lunch breaks.Whilst tech support hit things and pretended they knew what they were doing.

I wonder why they dropped such a universe  ::)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 09, 2019, 11:53:20 PM
Quote from: tin shed gamer on May 09, 2019, 11:07:42 PM
I must admit I much prefered An Imperium run by  the nepotism of civil servants with a zombie emperor whos day job was air traffic control and ate his descendants on his lunch breaks.Whilst tech support hit things and pretended they knew what they were doing.

I wonder why they dropped such a universe  ::)
Excessive realism is boring in Fantasyland.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 09, 2019, 11:53:49 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 09, 2019, 07:31:15 PM
If it is like any of the previous minis then I suspect that the photo is indicative of how it looks 'in the plastic'.

The Nurgle figures don't have any of the same sort of menace that their new Chaos Marines do. They have done a soft, rounded look to them all with exaggerated external elements (like the enormous flies) that really don't make the figures look menacing. Same thing with the Gellerpox models and the new Nurgle daemon characters.

The range has a 'melted icecream' look to it.
The flies look terrible and no amount of painting will save them. That, I can agree with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on May 10, 2019, 09:08:06 AM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on May 09, 2019, 07:10:27 PM
Honey, that's not honey. It's Nurgle juice ;)
Not impressed with stuff dripping from the left eye, though that might be badly painted - how do you paint a 3d droplet to make it look flat?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 10, 2019, 09:49:28 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 09, 2019, 11:53:49 PM
The flies look terrible and no amount of painting will save them. That, I can agree with.

Yes; the flies are really bugging me too...

As for the rest; carefully shave off the most annoying droplets (especially the one coming out of the barrel), and remove the entire vapour thingy coming out of that staff plus the ridiculous fly in front of the left leg and they're welcome alternate poses in any Death Guard army I suppose.

Probably prohibitively expensive though... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: meninobesta on May 10, 2019, 11:04:22 AM
first think it came to mind was this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crying_Boy
 :D

the painting doesn't help what it seems to be a nurgle space marine as good as the recent batch is
it looks like he has a fried egg on his breastplate and with that yellow liquid his gun appears to be a golden-shower-blaster  :o

anyway, a regular mini which was tainted by a poorly chosen colour scheme..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Civil Fimir on May 10, 2019, 11:13:30 AM
I'm not into 40k and generally don't like figures GW makes these days, but personally I think that insect going through evolving process is the best part in that figure. I’m assuming it’s meant to give artsy impression of movement and that’s just one fly we see, which I think is very cool idea.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on May 10, 2019, 11:27:08 AM
The only impression Nurgle stuff ever gives me is "why would I want any of that?".  ;D

Tzeentch is where it's at.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 10, 2019, 11:46:10 AM
Why does he have a set of blue bagpipes protruding from his head and backpack?

Nurgle noise marine ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 10, 2019, 08:09:00 PM
Forget the honey vomit gents
Behold..
Chibi marines

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Bandai-May10-SDFigures3bwtdb.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on May 10, 2019, 09:24:01 PM
Quote from: tin shed gamer on May 09, 2019, 11:07:42 PM
I must admit I much prefered An Imperium run by  the nepotism of civil servants with a zombie emperor whos day job was air traffic control and ate his descendants on his lunch breaks.Whilst tech support hit things and pretended they knew what they were doing.

I wonder why they dropped such a universe  ::)
The IT departmen were suing them for libel...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 10, 2019, 10:03:42 PM
Chibi 40k...I...I just don't know what to say...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 10, 2019, 10:23:12 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on May 10, 2019, 10:03:42 PM
Chibi 40k...I...I just don't know what to say...

Better than some of GW's mid/late 90s output, I'd say  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 11, 2019, 12:42:38 AM
They look like normarines near primarises :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 11, 2019, 06:13:07 PM
All the cool stuff spoiled today and you lot got stuck on the chibi marines!  lol

So much cool stuff. What do you think of the "contrast" paints (paint-glaze hybrid designed to be forgiving, from what I can tell)? Or the oodles of new models?

Updates spilling out all day here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/10/warhammer-fest-uk-2019-live-bloggw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-1/

The shire thugs! New combat hobbits! Hobbit hole kits! Paints! Units and upgrades for tons of factions in all shapes and sizes! Discuss, discuss!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 11, 2019, 06:39:55 PM
New Warcry band blow my mind. Thats aesthetic I want from my slaneeshian mortal units.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Fest2019-Sat15-WarcrySF2ujd-1.jpg)(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Fest2019-Sat15-WarcrySF4jcd-1.jpg)


Apart from that they previewed new hardcover expansion for Necromunda that is missing from official previews.
And there is teaser for new Arbitrators for Munda.
Greatest news for me.

Underworlds Lion left me cold but I own 14 war bands and actively play 4 or 5 so as long as this will be my most often played game I will buy it anyway :)

To be honest I buy everything Necromunda and Underworlds that GW is releasing (apart of some extra gadgets like dice for each faction and such)
There is a chance I will play those games for long years and I want to support them.

Hobbits and ruffians looks great - I fear that they will be expensive forge worlds models as a niche topic.
Ruffians would work perfectly as thugs for Frostgrave

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
The FW Shire stuff looks great which is good as normally they fluff faces.

I want to see Contrast paints up close before I comment.

I am starting to get a bit of a Flash Gorden vibe from Warcry...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 11, 2019, 07:15:14 PM
All forge World faces Ive seen were good .. They just rarely paint them to a standard they deserve in studio models..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 11, 2019, 07:15:26 PM
New Warcry faction looks interesting, though with less Inq28/Necro conversion possibilities than the other two (which is what I'm always looking out for).
Lovely models and aesthetic, though - really liking the Warcry idea. Best thing GW has done for ages.

Cool to see the re-sculpted Cawdor character is finally on the way (original was deemed too KKK by the management).

Shire thugs look great, pity I have no use for 'em.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 11, 2019, 07:24:29 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on May 11, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
I want to see Contrast paints up close before I comment.

Some case shots here: https://www.facebook.com/Garro30k/posts/2307453755941874

IMO, they won't work for everything, but are definitely a decent alternative to quick-dipped armies, and will almost certainly have some uses in normal painting too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on May 11, 2019, 07:42:25 PM
Ooh the skitarri hovercraft thingy looks good
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 11, 2019, 07:48:30 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on May 11, 2019, 07:15:26 PM
New Warcry faction looks interesting, though with less Inq28/Necro conversion possibilities than the other two (which is what I'm always looking out for).

My first though was I need two sets one for Warcry and second for my Slaanesian cult for Inq28. Those helmets  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 11, 2019, 08:39:15 PM
While I've only seen one of the Warcry factions I like so far I do like the visual exploration of chaos.

Quote from: FramFramson on May 11, 2019, 07:24:29 PM
Some case shots here: https://www.facebook.com/Garro30k/posts/2307453755941874

IMO, they won't work for everything, but are definitely a decent alternative to quick-dipped armies, and will almost certainly have some uses in normal painting too.

Thanks for the link. I can see it working for some people, and that's cool, but I can't see me taking it up...but then I like taking my time painting :D

A Primaris tank...shame its not a rhino-replacement. It's ok, was never really a big fan of the other version.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 11, 2019, 08:54:07 PM
Live the new warcry preview. Might be my faction.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 11, 2019, 09:55:59 PM
I don't mean to be 'that guy', but the brand new patented new before seen 'Contrast Paints' seem to be a glaze.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 11, 2019, 10:45:27 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 11, 2019, 07:24:29 PM
Some case shots here: https://www.facebook.com/Garro30k/posts/2307453755941874

IMO, they won't work for everything, but are definitely a decent alternative to quick-dipped armies, and will almost certainly have some uses in normal painting too.

Note that the paints require you to use the special Contrast primer
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 11, 2019, 10:54:43 PM
Quote from: Cubs on May 11, 2019, 09:55:59 PM
I don't mean to be 'that guy', but the brand new patented new before seen 'Contrast Paints' seem to be a glaze.
I mean, I said that from the get-go. They're just a sort of glaze/paint mix.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on May 11, 2019, 11:03:48 PM
Quote from: AWu on May 11, 2019, 06:39:55 PM
New Warcry band blow my mind. Thats aesthetic I want from my slaneeshian mortal units.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Fest2019-Sat15-WarcrySF2ujd-1.jpg)(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Fest2019-Sat15-WarcrySF4jcd-1.jpg)


The topmost guy's helmet reminds me of one of those alt-manufacturer heads I've seen around...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 11, 2019, 11:32:31 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 11, 2019, 10:54:43 PM
I mean, I said that from the get-go. They're just a sort of glaze/paint mix.

Then I cannot but agree with you sir. It looks like paint with a glaze agent added.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 12, 2019, 03:55:59 AM
So if these are just basically regular glazes, what are the best glazes from other companies around? I'm interested.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on May 12, 2019, 10:32:38 AM
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59914418_10158324803429348_2030581802208329728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=cece7aa4397490b064301fa790949d5b&oe=5D602911)

The new paints to me look like a combination of the AP Dip and the old ink/white undercoat method. Be interesting to see the White paint (Not the Undercoat mind) for the series as I'm always trying out easy white methods.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on May 12, 2019, 12:03:30 PM
I suspect that i will be sticking with variations on the army painter dip etc methods lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on May 12, 2019, 04:26:18 PM
I... quite like that chibi Sister of Battle.
Not sure I could see myself purchasing one, but the fact that it's not a definite no is something I'll have to take some time to process.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on May 12, 2019, 04:58:36 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on May 12, 2019, 04:26:18 PM
I... quite like that chibi Sister of Battle.
Not sure I could see myself purchasing one, but the fact that it's not a definite no is something I'll have to take some time to process.
I wonder how they scale with Raging Annie (and does the womble have no chapter marks)?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 12, 2019, 05:00:55 PM
Quote from: beefcake on May 12, 2019, 03:55:59 AM
So if these are just basically regular glazes...

They are not. They require a specific primer so there is some interaction between the paint and the primer to create the effect. They appear to work like a glaze but the fact that the main tone of the paint is still visible on the model and that it pools more than a glaze would make me think that it is some hybrid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on May 12, 2019, 06:38:59 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 12, 2019, 05:00:55 PM
They require a specific primer

Well they say you need their new primer but honestly just how true that is remains to be seen, they also say you need to use citadel branded clippers and glue when making there stuff so I'll take it with a pinch of salt for the moment *Shrugs*.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 12, 2019, 07:06:21 PM
Quote from: Chico on May 12, 2019, 06:38:59 PM
Well they say you need their new primer but honestly just how true that is remains to be seen

Why would they develop a line of primers for these paints if they weren’t required? They already sell spray that they sell as primers so what reason would they have to sink time and money into developing new primer if they didn’t have to?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on May 12, 2019, 07:15:34 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 12, 2019, 07:06:21 PM
Why would they develop a line of primers for these paints if they weren’t required? They already sell spray that they sell as primers so what reason would they have to sink time and money into developing new primer if they didn’t have to?

Because they are a company that wants to make money first and foremost. If they say you need such and such alot of people will just say Ok and buy it without thinking twice even if it may cost more than other cheaper or sometimes better options.

So yes until it's released and people just get to play around and have a good ol' test we don't honestly know if it's really needed or just the ''recommended'' option.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on May 13, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
Suspect the primer is fairly low tooth, if not very smooth. I use Harold grey primer on terrain which has a lot of tooth and washed etc. can be difficult on it. Probably to avoid that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on May 13, 2019, 09:17:40 AM
The contrast primer seems like a great product for the first basecoats over white. Spray white, add contrast and then you're set for fast shading and highlighting. Seems excellent for fast but good looking paintjobs.
And yes you can make the stuff yourself, but I don't care for that...I'm way too lazy lol. I want a simple and good product from a pot that is consistent. It's the main reason I love the old GW/AP washes. You can speed up your painting a lot and they are great for quick good blends. So I'll probably buy all of them!
And sure they work fine over white. No need to buy super expensive coloured primers. White is the way to go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on May 13, 2019, 11:59:59 AM
Quote from: Chico on May 12, 2019, 07:15:34 PM
Because they are a company that wants to make money first and foremost. If they say you need such and such alot of people will just say Ok and buy it without thinking twice even if it may cost more than other cheaper or sometimes better options.

So yes until it's released and people just get to play around and have a good ol' test we don't honestly know if it's really needed or just the ''recommended'' option.

This.

I suspect that some spray primers for cars would work fine. The proof will be in the pudding but the cynical side of me agrees with Chico on this one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 13, 2019, 04:07:05 PM
Yes; this has happened so many times already. Think Kneadatite, which was then marketed (first) by GW as Green Stuff at a mark-up that would leave any eighties Wallstreet broker in tears of envy. then there was Future Floor Polish, which found its way into the original Armypainter dip. Or Oyumaru, sold to unsuspecting miniature gamers as  Instamould at dozens of times its original price.

So I take it this will be no different. We'll just have to wait until somebody finds out the origin of the product, and it can be bought in bulk at a fraction of the price... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on May 14, 2019, 11:20:00 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 12, 2019, 07:06:21 PM
Why would they develop a line of primers for these paints if they weren’t required?
I remember when I was this innocent and trusting...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on May 14, 2019, 02:57:46 PM
I expect the reasoning is much less nefarious, it’s probably just as much down to “exact” (read branded) colour matching. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on May 14, 2019, 03:10:40 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on May 13, 2019, 04:07:05 PM
Yes; this has happened so many times already. Think Kneadatite, which was then marketed (first) by GW as Green Stuff at a mark-up that would leave any eighties Wallstreet broker in tears of envy.
I am not convinced about your chronology here, I am sure I remember references to Green Stuff before GW began marketing it. I accept I could be wrong.

I only started using it (instead of Milliput which I had been using since the 'eighties) when it became available from GW.

I thought Kneadite was a local brand (like the ill named "crazy glue), and green stuff a generic one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on May 14, 2019, 05:50:54 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 12, 2019, 07:06:21 PM
Why would they develop a line of primers for these paints if they weren’t required? They already sell spray that they sell as primers so what reason would they have to sink time and money into developing new primer if they didn’t have to?

It doesn't take very much time or money to design new packaging.   If it's in a new tin it can be presented as a new product. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on May 14, 2019, 06:38:30 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 12, 2019, 07:06:21 PM
Why would they develop a line of primers for these paints if they weren’t required? They already sell spray that they sell as primers so what reason would they have to sink time and money into developing new primer if they didn’t have to?

It'll be to do with their own primers - not anyone elses. The colour primers I have used from them are relatively matt, so as someone else has said elsewhere, it's likely that they need to be a bit smoother for the flow to work. If that exists already out there, GW will still bring their own branded product in. They're not going to send a customer to somewhere like Halfords where they could learn the primers are cheaper and better etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 15, 2019, 09:01:20 AM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on May 14, 2019, 03:10:40 PM
I am not convinced about your chronology here, I am sure I remember references to Green Stuff before GW began marketing it. I accept I could be wrong.

It was just an example (just like the other two I gave). For me, GS was first available through GW. Only later, when I discovered online hobby forums did I find out that it was in fact called Kneadadite and originally developed as a sealant for use by plumbers. Then again; that's what I was told; I never really researched it, so I might be off.

Then again; despite possible screwed chronology, as an example it still stands I reckon... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on May 15, 2019, 04:28:17 PM
With regard to Green Stuff, I don't know whether the formulation has remained unchanged, but my understanding  - admittedly unverified - is that it started out in life as a product called Duro, and was discovered by sculptors like Tom Meier and modellers such as Bill Horan, presumably in the late 1970's if not before. When its application for modelling and popularity with modellers became apparent, the manufacturer repackaged it - or a variant of it - as Kneadatite and marketed it to hobbyists. This was long before GW claimed it as their own, and used the name Green Stuff, though I have no idea whether they first used that name, or simply decided to apply a popular - and more memorable -  term as a brand name.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on May 17, 2019, 08:22:16 AM
It was definitely called "green stuff" long before GW produced it. In the late 80s, I used to get small quantities of it from the guys at Acropolis and Fantasy Forge, and they always called it "green stuff". I never saw the packaging it came in, so I don't know how it was branded, but it was identical to what GW sells today.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on May 17, 2019, 11:44:13 PM
I remember very early on,that the Green Stuff John Blanche used was plastic sprue,melted with turps; an old military modellers trick.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 18, 2019, 12:41:47 AM
Melted sprue! That is hilarious... and concerningly toxic sounding...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on May 18, 2019, 02:10:14 AM
Quote from: beefcake on May 18, 2019, 12:41:47 AM
Melted sprue! That is hilarious... and concerningly toxic sounding...

Worked very well at the time,used it to fill gaps et cetera,of course my fingers are a bit odd these days...Turps,love the smell ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on May 18, 2019, 09:22:14 AM
Quote from: beefcake on May 18, 2019, 12:41:47 AM
Melted sprue! That is hilarious... and concerningly toxic sounding...
Did you not have an old liquid poly bottle that you dropped sprue into to make thickened gunge for filling?

Way back when story - a youthful twins allegedly sent in their master of a rhinoceros to Citadel with its core made of plasticine. It did not react well to the mould making process.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on May 18, 2019, 12:50:54 PM
That right there is an oops if I ever heard one!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 20, 2019, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: Blackwolf on May 18, 2019, 02:10:14 AM
Turps,love the smell ;D

I was a quite impatient lad back in the day, with an explosive temper to boot. So for my tenth or so birthday, my parents completely ignored my wants list and gifted me with a stack of plastic model kits, plastic cement, (cheap) brushes and little metal pots of enamel paints. My father cleared out a space under the tiny skylight in the attic, put a table there and further provided me with a Stanley knife, some rags, and an old mustard jar filled with turpentine for cleaning my brushes.

So yeah; kudos to my parents for setting up a easily angered ten year old with a knife and volatile liquids in an unsupervised location lol

I still don't know what cultivated my patience into what it is now; the conditioning of having to build those kits, or the neuron-melting smell of turpentine in that sunblasted, hot attic.

But I do know that to this day, its smell (just like polycement's) has a soothing influence on me... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on May 22, 2019, 11:35:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/meZb83U.jpg)

Very, very impressed with these little chaps. Really tempted to get a box and paint them up just for the hell of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Keith on May 22, 2019, 12:32:05 PM
Jeepers those are nice!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 22, 2019, 06:41:04 PM
Okay, those are GOOD.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 22, 2019, 07:56:50 PM
We saw them months ago on this thread :P

But I agree.
Unfortunately treeman is very divisive
(I am ok with him personally  - I think the painjob is not making him justice - but most people tend to hate it)

(https://preview.redd.it/fsc3s502glw21.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=205fb7657e48b0bc8c466a9c771bfd393a4ad287)

And As anyone who played BB know you need max Treemen when playing Halfings :P
(and you still are lowest possible tier anyway :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on May 23, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
That's a named character though right, not the generic one? Latter should be released at some point soon I'd imagine, but apparently it makes sense to have a star player first...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 23, 2019, 08:53:30 PM
ahh

This make sense only if standard one will be made from  plastic (which makes sense as he plays for wood elves too and they are one of top and most popular teams)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 24, 2019, 10:35:22 PM
Sorry for double post.

GW released for free few more Tactics cards for Necromunda..
Like with previous some are super powerful, some are rubbish
But they are free and Gene cult, Chaos cult (i love theirs) and Venators got their first ones.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/24/necromunda-gang-tactics-cardsfw-homepage-post-3/?fbclid=IwAR3Nz5hwRMGTrAFr-37VBmEKfs28DaffQ5OBPdKE-CVwjuF5BkrzZJy7oDc
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on May 25, 2019, 12:12:47 AM
Quote from: AWu on May 24, 2019, 10:35:22 PM
GW released for free few more Tactics cards for Necromunda..


Thanks mate, I missed this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 25, 2019, 12:37:45 AM
Well, if you don't like that treeman preview an older version is up for sale on made to order. I have the even older version which I think is best for halfling teams.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on May 25, 2019, 12:17:57 PM
The Halfling team is ace, no question about that. However, this must be up there in GW's pantheon of all-time greatest rip offs. Twelve Halflings? Seriously? This has to be a deliberate gouge. I defy anyone to defend it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on May 25, 2019, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on May 25, 2019, 12:17:57 PM
The Halfling team is ace, no question about that. However, this must be up there in GW's pantheon of all-time greatest rip offs. Twelve Halflings? Seriously? This has to be a deliberate gouge. I defy anyone to defend it.

Hehe I must be getting used to GW pricing then as I thought £20 for  12 Halflings plus a roster sheet, transfer sheet, 2 sausage-wielding turn markers, 3 extra “balls” was ok value.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on May 25, 2019, 07:05:40 PM
Quote from: Chico on May 25, 2019, 02:46:09 PM
Hehe I must be getting used to GW pricing then as I thought £20 for  12 Halflings plus a roster sheet, transfer sheet, 2 sausage-wielding turn markers, 3 extra “balls” was ok value.
It's the fact that 12 Halflings is never enough. Almost all Halfling teams are going to be 14 H plus two Treemen. If they can get seven undead on a sprue they can bloody well get seven Halflings on one. Regular GW customers seem to have infinite patience for their pee taking methods.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on May 25, 2019, 08:22:07 PM
Well granted it's been awhile (Read: 3rd Edition) since I've played 'Flings but the only time I've ever had a full roster was 12 'Flings, 2 Treemen, Treeman Starplayer and Puggy Baconbreath and that was due to being underdogs so many times I could afford 2 stars at once.

They die so quick I never had a full team other than then.

Though nice little dig with the ''Regular GW customers seem to have infinite patience for their pee taking methods'' comment at then end, I'm a fairly regular buyer and I have no patience for GW silly pricing and practices.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 25, 2019, 09:09:01 PM
Those guys are on half sprues they could easily drop in an extra sprue..
Box will have 5 small sprues anyway

I know this is no pricing woes consolation but judging by Goblin team, those sprues could be available in blister to finish off the team
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 31, 2019, 10:12:04 PM
Some nice new reveals. I think I'm dold on the enforcers for necromunda (might use them in kill team though) however the sniper let's them down.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/revealed-at-the-uk-games-expo-2019gw-homepage-post-1/

Elf BB team looks nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on May 31, 2019, 10:51:59 PM
Elf team is the first totally dressed team :P
Its a nice detail although I am not sure its very wood elfy - I pictured them as most fear of elves not most prude.

I am not to keen on the enforcers. I think they look a little bland but this is helmets fault IMHO. Too space mariny.
Will be much better with bare heads.

I love pose with flashlight and pistol though..

My faves are Crow guys for Warcry and new Cultists  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on May 31, 2019, 11:37:08 PM
Oh man the Corvus carbal   :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 01, 2019, 10:26:33 AM
I have just been googling Warcry , really like the untamed beasts
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on June 01, 2019, 10:46:55 AM
That's about the most METAL picture ever!  lol

It's like a Manowar album cover from the eighties...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 01, 2019, 11:37:02 AM
Quote from: JollyBob on June 01, 2019, 10:46:55 AM
That's about the most METAL picture ever!  lol

It's like a Manowar album cover from the eighties...
You say that like it’s a bad thing 😂 they are certainly better than those old plastic chaos marauders .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on June 01, 2019, 12:35:00 PM
Okay, I might be sold on the Enforcers, if there is no moulded logo on the circular plate on the chest (it looks like an Ork glyph on the photographs).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 01, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Hot damn that new Warcry faction is AMAZING!

I don't think I've ever been as wow-ed by a set of miniatures before  :-*

(Also would love to know the design process: Ynneadwraith has been making 40k conversions along pretty much exactly this aesthetic for a few years now, wonder if the studio has been watching with interest).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 01, 2019, 04:55:01 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on June 01, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Hot damn that new Warcry faction is AMAZING!

I don't think I've ever been as wow-ed by a set of miniatures before  :-*

(Also would love to know the design process: Ynneadwraith has been making 40k conversions along pretty much exactly this aesthetic for a few years now, wonder if the studio has been watching with interest).
Any links?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 01, 2019, 05:24:33 PM
Here ya go:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/revealed-at-the-uk-games-expo-2019gw-homepage-post-1/#gallery-4-1 (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/revealed-at-the-uk-games-expo-2019gw-homepage-post-1/#gallery-4-1)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 01, 2019, 07:51:51 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on June 01, 2019, 05:24:33 PM
Here ya go:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/revealed-at-the-uk-games-expo-2019gw-homepage-post-1/#gallery-4-1 (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/revealed-at-the-uk-games-expo-2019gw-homepage-post-1/#gallery-4-1)
Is that Ynneadwraiths work?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on June 01, 2019, 11:54:54 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on June 01, 2019, 12:35:00 PM
Okay, I might be sold on the Enforcers, if there is no moulded logo on the circular plate on the chest (it looks like an Ork glyph on the photographs).

Same - they look great. I think it's a painted on Aquila, so useful for many sci-fi settings.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 02, 2019, 04:31:14 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on June 01, 2019, 07:51:51 PM
Is that Ynneadwraiths work?

Hmmm, just spent several minutes realising that I don't know how to make a link appear as an image. Technology is not my strong point.
So here is another pic of the new Warcry gang:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/revealed-at-the-uk-games-expo-2019gw-homepage-post-1/#gallery-4-2 (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/revealed-at-the-uk-games-expo-2019gw-homepage-post-1/#gallery-4-2)

And here is a link to instagram of Ynneadwraith's amazing 40k Crows:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Btb4dvcnN85/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/Btb4dvcnN85/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on June 02, 2019, 07:46:50 AM
Nice. Over the link you posted, right mouse click, "View image" and then copy and paste that URL in your post (adding the "[img]" tags at the beginning and end if you want to).

There was a murder of 15 crows outside my place this morning - I think it's a sign!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 02, 2019, 09:17:58 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on June 02, 2019, 04:31:14 AM
Hmmm, just spent several minutes realising that I don't know how to make a link appear as an image. Technology is not my strong point.
So here is another pic of the new Warcry gang:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/revealed-at-the-uk-games-expo-2019gw-homepage-post-1/#gallery-4-2 (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/revealed-at-the-uk-games-expo-2019gw-homepage-post-1/#gallery-4-2)

And here is a link to instagram of Ynneadwraith's amazing 40k Crows:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Btb4dvcnN85/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/Btb4dvcnN85/)
thanks belligerent, I struggle with tech as well 👍 Did He /she? Do some 40k elk men conversions I have seen those on the internet and they look similarly painted to the crows.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on June 02, 2019, 09:42:35 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on June 01, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Hot damn that new Warcry faction is AMAZING!

I don't think I've ever been as wow-ed by a set of miniatures before  :-*

(Also would love to know the design process: Ynneadwraith has been making 40k conversions along pretty much exactly this aesthetic for a few years now, wonder if the studio has been watching with interest).

Those Warcry crow guys look great. Suddenly I'm interested in the game.

At the very least I'll be getting them!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 02, 2019, 06:03:17 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on June 02, 2019, 04:31:14 AM
Hmmm, just spent several minutes realising that I don't know how to make a link appear as an image. Technology is not my strong point.


You hit a right button on it, and then chose - Open graphic in the new card (or how your browser name it)
Then picture should open on the new page with direct link to it.
Then you copy the adress from your browser
and add to your post with Insert Image function

It works only with direct link (ie: picture expansion at the end like .Jpg or .BMP

I take it from your post by above method
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/EXPO-May31-Cabal9elf.jpg)

Quote
Same - they look great. I think it's a painted on Aquila, so useful for many sci-fi settings.

Its new Necromunda logo - stylized Aquila.
Its so delicate that i suspect its decals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 02, 2019, 07:29:11 PM
Quote from: JollyBob on June 01, 2019, 10:46:55 AM
That's about the most METAL picture ever!  lol

It's like a Manowar album cover from the eighties...

 lol lol lol
I was thinking exactly the smae thing.
For a second I thought I was in GW Hammersmith and it is 1988 all over again.
 :D :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 02, 2019, 07:46:12 PM
Quote from: Mason on June 02, 2019, 07:29:11 PM
lol lol lol
I was thinking exactly the smae thing.
For a second I thought I was in GW Hammersmith and it is 1988 all over again.
 :D :D
Well I don’t they will be £2:50 unfortunately 😂
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 02, 2019, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on June 02, 2019, 07:46:12 PM
Well I don’t they will be £2:50 unfortunately 😂

 lol lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on June 07, 2019, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on June 01, 2019, 10:26:33 AM
I have just been googling Warcry , really like the untamed beasts

So close...! They should have named it Gwarcry. Fits the miniatures well too.
And that photo is awesome 😎
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: gmanrocks on June 07, 2019, 12:59:06 PM
As GW seem to hitting people right in the nostalgia (and continuing to work it over), I dunno if anyone had seen it yesterday, but Zoats are back (as a BB Star Player a least).

(https://external-preview.redd.it/WC-S91fN92Lv1nXqx--_8vpU8Gu5EKHWiewwAV1rJfg.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b1e2a7ba197cfdca818627c28bb1ce7256b31fbb)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 07, 2019, 02:06:57 PM
Part of me likes the nostalgia trip...but part of me thinks of it as plundering.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 07, 2019, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on June 07, 2019, 12:10:56 PM
They should have named it Gwarcry.

Ooooo.... that's good.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 07, 2019, 02:21:50 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on June 07, 2019, 12:10:56 PM
So close...! They should have named it Gwarcry. Fits the miniatures well too.
And that photo is awesome 😎
  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 07, 2019, 07:25:20 PM
Instant classic, Malebolgia  lol.
Can't wait for its release, but it will probably be July...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 08, 2019, 10:07:58 AM
See in the sun newspaper today that 1900 members of staff got a £2500 bonus ,they predict sales of 254 million  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on June 08, 2019, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on June 07, 2019, 02:06:57 PM
Part of me likes the nostalgia trip...but part of me thinks of it as plundering.

Can you plunder yourself? It's a bit like stealing your own money... ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 08, 2019, 04:46:05 PM
The contrast paints are up for pre-order, but I'm rather underwhelmed :( Paint details here (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/detail?N=3891072176&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+%3C%3D+1560012120000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1560012120000%5D)

Video of them being used here - https://citadelcolour.com/playlist/6038888620001/6038130494001, but the result looks half finished.

Approach seems to be

prime with light primer
pick the dominant colour and apply appropriate contrast paint to whole model
apply other contrast paints as required. This is where the first problem comes in, as the lighter contrasts don't easily go over darker ones. In the video he re-applies the primer colour to the model in the areas where he's going to put the lighter contrast colour

The end result, as I said, looks pretty poor, not even sure I'd consider it tabletop quality

18ml pots, so should last a while, but £4.75 a pot. This is the same price as the shades, but they're in 24ml pots. I may pick up one to have a play with, but I'm not seeing these replacing my shades anytime soon

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on June 08, 2019, 05:51:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/xlm8km4.png)

Agreed. This is the finished result; not quite what the initial Contrast marketing alluded to. Then again, I think this was always aimed at just bashing out painted stuff quickly. It still beats grey hordes I guess! Besides, other models probably come out better - organic ones like monsters/Tyranids etc. This model probably wasn't the best to demonstrate the product with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 08, 2019, 06:24:52 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on June 08, 2019, 03:37:56 PM
Can you plunder yourself? It's a bit like stealing your own money... ;D

:D I was thinking that just re-doing models from the past to earn a quick buck is plundering while firmly establishing the mini in the range isn't. My uncertainty comes from not really following the lore anymore as it feels clunky and plot driven.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 08, 2019, 09:36:01 PM
I'm quite interested to see what the new paints are like - not least because I have scores if not hundreds of various sort of unpainted reptile kicking around, and I think these paints might work very well as single-coat "cheats" on those.

I can also see these being very handy for RPG figures (adventurers, bandits, townsfolk, etc.): deal with cloaks and clothing in a couple of single-layer colours and then spent a bit of time on the faces to personalise them.

The video isn't terribly inspiring, but seems to be aimed at the clumsy (or, more likely, at kids). There's no obvious reason to paint the non-blue bits blue to begin with; they could just be left bare undercoat for the other paints.

Last night, I was playing around with the two new ghost paints, which I gather are precursors to this range. They do a reasonable job over scaly hides - better than a standard wash. So I'm hopeful.

Also, the guy at The Convertorum got some very good results (http://convertorum.blogspot.com/2019/05/a-pillar-of-community.html) with the new paints. Interestingly, he drybrushed the models white over the grey or bone undercoat before applying the contrast paints.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 08, 2019, 10:39:23 PM
I'm also keen to see how the contrast paints work on smaller scales. I have visions of whipping through scores of 15mm and 10mm figures at a sitting ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on June 08, 2019, 11:04:32 PM
Good point about the smaller scales. These could be brilliant for those!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on June 08, 2019, 11:33:56 PM
Everyone has their own tabletop standard and this can up the game of casual painters. I'm interested.   I've been painting a Empire army of old GW metals for a year now, over a thousand infantry and 250 cavalry. During the week I paint 1 to 1.5 hours a night and whatever I can on the weekend depending on schedule. 40 infantry a week so if it saved me 5 minutes a fig that's a extra 3.5 hours a group. That's a lot of time saved. The marine pictured would have taken me 2 steps instead of 1. So one coat then highlight could save me a easy 5 minutes a figure.     Like Hobgoblin I have a lot of figures to paint. Like to get them done before I leave this earth.                     
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on June 09, 2019, 02:27:58 AM
Same as Hobgoblin - I’m interested to see why these so on small scales, I’m a very slow painter so my 15mm mass battle dreams might be helped along here. I am worried that the shallower detail of 15mm might not be advantageous here.

Of note to some - I’ve been following Contrast with interest and nearly every painter I’ve read who’s had a go said that Ultramarine blue is the worst one. So maybe that picture doesn’t quite tell the whole story. I’ve preordered a few to give them a go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on June 09, 2019, 09:38:01 AM
While Contrast isn't directly aimed at me (I don't have a unpainted pile anymore, they end up on ebay if they sit around too long now) I'm still interesting in how the white handles and the flesh paints do.

Hate painting both white and human flesh tones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 09, 2019, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: Jagannath on June 09, 2019, 02:27:58 AM
I am worried that the shallower detail of 15mm might not be advantageous here.

Yeah, that might be a problem. More generally, I wonder how well they'll work on things that aren't ultra-animated/detailed GW plastics. I can imagine that what looks good on an AoS figure with fluttering robes and flags might look a little less exciting on a Gripping Beast viking or whatever.

Quote from: Jagannath on June 09, 2019, 02:27:58 AM
Of note to some - I’ve been following Contrast with interest and nearly every painter I’ve read who’s had a go said that Ultramarine blue is the worst one. So maybe that picture doesn’t quite tell the whole story.

That's good to know. Blood Angel Red seems to be the one getting the best write-ups.

I'm intrigued by the white paint, which looks like it could be a way to get stormtrooper-ish armour done very quickly (and consistently, which is probably more important). I can't quite imagine how it works, but judging by the Convertorum link I posted, it seems to do the trick.

The overall effect, I think, will be a lot of 'bright but dark' armies; the 'parade' standard GW is showcasing involves extra highlights with other paints.

I played around with the reported prototype Nighthaunt Gloom (a nice marine-iguana-ish colour). Here's how it looks over white on three scaly beasties. In each case, the skin is just a single coat. With the lizardman archer, you can see that it does a better job of picking out the scales than the orange wash on his jaw and underbelly or the red wash on his armour.

And with the kobold, the skin already looks better, I think, than the brown bits, which have had washes of both paint and GW 'wash'. I'll probably add a few swift highlights to his brow and nose, etc., but I'm quite happy with how his hide has come out.

With the plastic lizardman, I'd be happy to call the scales done and pay more attention to the other bits. The effect's certainly much better than a single coat of a standard wash. So, if these new paints are better than Nighthaunt Gloom, I think they might work quite well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on June 09, 2019, 02:33:30 PM
Yeah those gave come out nicely - especially useful for scales, which a are sooooo time consuming to paint properly. A good white recipe to try for you:

Vallejo silver grey (a sort of warm off white) - good coverage on black
Vallejo grey wash - works really nicely on above.
Layer silver grey again.
Layer a true white highlight.

The other thing I’ve realised about contrast for bulk painting 15s is I’ll need to get much better at cleaning up mould lines - my usual ‘thick’ layer painting style means I can vanish mould lines if I miss them. No such luck with contrast.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 09, 2019, 04:17:00 PM
This, and you'll need to fill in the gaps between different parts and smooth it up afterwards, or you'll get nasty results. Our local GW has a demonstration coming week so I'll go and see if I like the effects. Will probably use them on single part metal mini's, though ( which are great for the classic basecoat/wash/drybrush and/or highlight method anyway ), modern multipart plastics not so much...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 09, 2019, 04:45:33 PM
Quote from: Jagannath on June 09, 2019, 02:33:30 PM
Yeah those gave come out nicely - especially useful for scales, which a are sooooo time consuming to paint properly.

Yup - it's hard to tell from a WIP photo, but from comparing the plastic lizardman with finished examples of his ilk, I think that Gloom paint achieves roughly the same effect in one coat as preshade/drybrush/wash/drybrush/wash again. And yes, scales are a nightmare. I'm taking an increasing amount of solace from the fact that many real-world reptiles don't have the paler underbelly that they are always given in fantasy illustrations.

I'm also hopeful about contrast paints as a tool in tackling some of the best old Grenadier stuff. A lot of the best Grenadier miniatures have very subtle details. They come up well with preshading and drybrushing, but they don't take well to drybrushing once some colour comes on. I'm thinking here of John Dennet's fur and feather textures in particular. So I wonder if spray undercoat, white drybrush, contrast might be the best way to do those justice. The same goes for some old Tom Meier stuff, which I'd already resorted to painting mainly with layered washes, so fine is the detail.

Quote from: Jagannath on June 09, 2019, 02:33:30 PM
A good white recipe to try for you:

Vallejo silver grey (a sort of warm off white) - good coverage on black
Vallejo grey wash - works really nicely on above.
Layer silver grey again.
Layer a true white highlight.

Thanks - I'll give that a try! Silver grey is pretty much the best paint around, I reckon.

Quote from: Jagannath on June 09, 2019, 02:33:30 PM
The other thing I’ve realised about contrast for bulk painting 15s is I’ll need to get much better at cleaning up mould lines - my usual ‘thick’ layer painting style means I can vanish mould lines if I miss them. No such luck with contrast.

It's a good point. I'm going to get a batch of odds and ends assembled and based this week for the arrival of contrast, with particular attention to mouldlines.

Duncan, I think the gaps, etc., is only a problem with some modern plastics. A lot of the new GW stuff is pretty seamless - and so are some of the older things (like the Isle of Blood skaven, for example).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 09, 2019, 09:31:37 PM
people on the 6mm facebook group have shown some impressive results using the contrast paints for 6mm space marines.
(https://scontent-ams4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/62119346_895933714959_931556622428274688_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_eui2=AeEOSTlkltRKK3ZFljtYxhy_aWHg_DoOA9DzCb8HHjgXEvPoSWE_oS1Gtbn3yYktwRmTqVJc4ENUnHb2qNYM22-fZjsbE_mYJEGgPoenWpapSA&_nc_ht=scontent-ams4-1.xx&oh=cf18bd11460c7061717c88990acccd0f&oe=5D5374B0)

from Austin Hunt posted here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/266872090170793/permalink/1110012725856721/


And there is a album of the same detailed base painted in ALL primer/pain combinations here: https://imgur.com/gallery/cge87zj
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 09, 2019, 09:50:40 PM
Both those links look very promising! I'd seen the base thing, but minus the photo of the reds and yellows.

Presumably, a pure white drybrushing (e.g. with Vallejo white over the bone/grey undercoat) would push the contrast a little further too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on June 09, 2019, 09:51:30 PM
Oh man, thanks for that! You could turn an epic space marine army out in an afternoon - or, in fact, some 6mm astronauts......  :D

Sorry Hobgoblin - totally forgot you’re a fellow silvergrey advocate already!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 10, 2019, 10:27:44 AM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on June 09, 2019, 09:50:40 PM
Presumably, a pure white drybrushing (e.g. with Vallejo white over the bone/grey undercoat) would push the contrast a little further too.

I'm not sure, I've heard people say the primers for this are a bit smoothers to push the paint away from the edges more, if you were to drybrush before the contrast paint it might result in more paint sticking to or being absorbed by the Vallejo white and reducing the effect. or maybe it works great, I don't know!  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on June 10, 2019, 12:44:50 PM
Yeah this was my understanding - that the primer isn’t really a primer (in the sense of a surface with tooth) at all, it’s smooth to help the contrast flow. I’m actually looking forward to playing with this stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 10, 2019, 01:45:47 PM
Quote from: Jagannath on June 09, 2019, 09:51:30 PM
Sorry Hobgoblin - totally forgot you’re a fellow silvergrey advocate already!

It's the paint of paints!  ;)

On the white thing: I noticed that the Convertorum guy said he'd drybrushed his marines white on top of the base coats before using the contrast paints; it seems to have worked pretty well. In that link to the base samples, I didn't see much of a difference between the 'special' new sprays and the standard Corax White, so I wonder if the strengths of the new sprays have been slightly hyped (I'm sure they're a bit smoother, but people who've used the new paints say that they work just fine over any light-coloured undercoat). But I'll certainly pick up a can.

Incidentally, the science behind the use of off-whites seems to also explain why white gesso isn't as good as black for miniatures; the titanium dioxide particles are too big to be as smooth, or something along those lines.

A friend in Singapore has been trying them out in a shop today. He reports that they're a bit like Tamiya acrylics, and that there's a gulf in quality between colours (purple weak, red great, apparently).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on June 10, 2019, 02:27:41 PM
Ah that’s good intel.

I’m excited to try some zenith work in airbrush before the contrast is applied. All in all they should be a fun new tool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 11, 2019, 08:53:48 AM
Quote from: Jagannath on June 10, 2019, 02:27:41 PM
I’m excited to try some zenith work in airbrush before the contrast is applied. All in all they should be a fun new tool.

Ooh, that does sound like an interesting combination!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Exiledadmiral on June 11, 2019, 07:57:51 PM
Hi all, I was at warhammer fest this year and was seriously impressed with the contrast paints for certain applications. Squigs, trolls, goblins and eldar all looked great! Space marines not so much, which makes it all the more frustrating that they're using them as the display models, even if they are their babies.

Personally I'm excited not to have to basecoat, wash and basecoat again to get to a decent looking level. I hate basecoating, I enjoy the highlighting and the detail work. I think with these paints I might actually be able to paint an army!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on June 12, 2019, 01:34:03 PM
I also had the chance to play with the Contrast range last Saturday in my local GW. I was there for about 3 hours and painted 2 of the 40K Nurgle miniatures (terrific plastic by the way!). On the first model I spent about 90 minutes and on the second one 45 minutes. Which is on the fast side for me. Instead of experimenting with all colours and splashing them around I tried to paint a whole miniature with them and see what I could achieve. These two miniatures were painted with Contrasts over the two special primers (nr. 1 over the bone colour, nr. 2 over grey). I used a pot of light grey to add a bit of highlighting here and there and painted the base black at home.
I was pleasantly surprised! The range works very well and you can get terrific results with some of them. The Iyanden yellow is absolutely fantastic. I can't wait to paint tons of miniatures with this colour. Such a fantastic vibrant yellow with excellent coverage and a very nice orangey shade. Wet blending the tentacles to get some colour blending also works very well. In general you really need to be careful with wet Contrast, because it will mix and blend in no time with other wet colours. But if you want to wet blend colours, that is super easy!
As a range it's an odd mix though. Some colours like the yellow, Ultramarines Blue or Blood Angels Red are -very- strong in colour and are extremely thick. Others, like some purples and greens (can't remember their silly names though) are much thinner and felt more like glazes. I can't really imagine basecoating with these thin colours, but the effect they give is fantastic. Very subtle and excellent to glaze and add colour tones to a model. So they're unlike the old washes; these all felt similar in opacity, consistency, pigment values, etc. But a lot of Contrast paints cannot be compared to each other. That was a bit odd.
But are they great? Yes! Are they all great? No. There are colours I didn't like (some Ork Green that dried patchy) and some are too thin or too dark for their effect. So I do recommend checking them out on YouTube or paint samples before you get them. And this is also very personal...so if you can try them out, DO IT!

Model 1 - 90 minutes, Contrast + light grey highlights here and there
(http://paintoholic.nl/images/contrast1a.jpg)
(http://paintoholic.nl/images/contrast1b.jpg)

Model 2 - 45 minutes, Contrast + light grey highlights here and there
(http://paintoholic.nl/images/contrast2a.jpg)
(http://paintoholic.nl/images/contrast2b.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 12, 2019, 02:59:16 PM
Cracking results there, especially the wet blended areas.
 :-*

I think I may have to give them a go as I have some Eldar unpainted that may benefit from this system.
 :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Exiledadmiral on June 12, 2019, 08:54:48 PM
I like those pox walkers! The blending on then looks great. I really like the effect of the dark contrast paints on metallic areas too, looks like it would be great for matt black guns and things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 13, 2019, 02:08:03 PM
The pox walkers look great!

I'm very interested to see how these paints will work on old metal miniatures with shallow but intricate detail. I'm thinking of the likes of Ral Partha, Grenadier (especially stuff by John Dennett and Julie Guthrie) and Metal Magic. A lot of the stuff produced by those companies was great, but was detailed in a very different way from Citadel/GW's stuff. It's much harder to paint to the same level, because features are more delicate and the sculpting's more subtle.

I was looking last night at Julie Guthrie's old Grenadier dragon-man:

(http://www.miniatures-workshop.com/lostminiswiki/images/6/63/Gren-jgp-876.jpg)

 It's a great little model, but almost immune to conventional highlighting and shading because the ribs on the wings are so subtle; I've never had good results even with drybrushing on stuff like that. I was going to attempt to paint it just with washes and glazes over a white undercoat. But these new paints might just do the trick ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tuco74 on June 13, 2019, 04:03:02 PM
The contrast paints do look great and I'm particularly interested in the flesh colours as I hate painting faces.
But what happens when you need to touch up an area because you've been a bit messy with another colour? Not that I ever do that obviously.
Presumably you need to apply some more primer before you use the contrast paint?
Also, does anybody know if this formulation is proprietary to GW or can we look forward to other companies coming up with their own versions?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 13, 2019, 04:13:43 PM
Quote from: tuco74 on June 13, 2019, 04:03:02 PM
The contrast paints do look great and I'm particularly interested in the flesh colours as I hate painting faces.
But what happens when you need to touch up an area because you've been a bit messy with another colour? Not that I ever do that obviously.
Presumably you need to apply some more primer before you use the contrast paint?

From looking at the GW site, it seems that they sell potted paint in their "layer" range that matches the two new primers. So I think you can retouch with that, then reapply the contrast stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on June 13, 2019, 09:43:41 PM
So tried out those new Contrast paints today in GW Watford, honestly with mixed results.

Pros:
White and Black are really good.
Easy rust/dirt effects.
Fast.
Great wet blending.
Great to layer over metallics (Just be careful and will need thinning with medium).

Cons:
Messy and hard to control while still being speedy (Its speed or control).
Costly (£4.75 a pot and you use a fair bit).
Certain colours are weaker than others and some layers are shiny when finished.

So while they may not be aimed at me I'll still be picking up the white at least as that's honestly the true start of the range from my standpoint.

This is just my view point, but I recommend trying them at least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 13, 2019, 10:25:56 PM
Useful info!

Quote from: Chico on June 13, 2019, 09:43:41 PM

White and Black are really good.

That's very good to know - especially as those are two of the hardest colours to get right with conventional painting.

Quote from: Chico on June 13, 2019, 09:43:41 PM
Certain colours are weaker than others and some layers are shiny when finished.

Any thoughts on which colours should be avoided to start with? Or is more a case that the weaker ones would be OK for certain jobs and the strong ones too strong for others?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on June 13, 2019, 11:00:02 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on June 13, 2019, 10:25:56 PM
Any thoughts on which colours should be avoided to start with? Or is more a case that the weaker ones would be OK for certain jobs and the strong ones too strong for others?

I'm guessing it's the case that it will be job dependant and lots of playing around will be in order.

But from my hour or so of messing around I can say Blood Angels Red is a rather strong/rich and covers well but dries with a unexpected candy red finish if you use too much or go with 2 thin coats. Iyanden Yellow on the other hand goes on better if you add some medium and go for 2 thinner coats to get a full richness.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 13, 2019, 11:03:30 PM
Thanks! I'll make a few tentative purchases when these hit the stores, so all advance info much appreciated!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on June 14, 2019, 10:45:32 AM
Gosh - John Blanche really is a very talented artist:

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Community-Contrast-JBlance-June11-DreadHarrow4fds.jpg)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/11/contrast-testimonies-john-blanchegw-homepage-post-3/

It's amazing how similar to his other stuff he's managed to make this. I'm stoked to get hold of this stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 14, 2019, 10:54:00 AM
Don't get me wrong it is nice but the pooling of paint is a big turn off for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 14, 2019, 11:06:15 AM
"There are a lot of great shades of brown in the new range". Why am I not surprised JB would say something like that?  :)

Quote from: Jagannath on June 14, 2019, 10:45:32 AM
Gosh - John Blanche really is a very talented artist
The man is a god! I am very lucky to own some minis he converted and painted. Photos don't quite do them justice.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 14, 2019, 12:59:47 PM
He is an artist that went into the miniatures.
Not the other way around :)


As a kid I preferred clean heroics of Mark Gibbons to JB disturbing artwork but now I remember mostly JB art  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 15, 2019, 05:39:29 PM
Picked up a batch of the contrast paints today. My son and I are trying them out - very favourable impressions so far. I sprayed a whole batch of them earlier, but here are a couple of light-undercoated models I had lying around. The troll's had a dab of Plaguebearer Green and the demon has had Snakebite Leather on the body, Skeleton Horde on the head and Blood Angel Red on the horns.

I reckon these are going to be a godsend for getting RPG encounters ready for the table!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on June 16, 2019, 09:50:31 AM
Nice work - I realise it complements your ‘preshade and glaze’ painting style really nicely, it’s sort of the ‘hobgoblin method’ in a pot!

I’m going to go and get some today - I’ve cleaned and prepped some 15s as a test and I’m also keen to try it on some realistic models plus some 6mm I’ve got in the printer at mo. Seems like quite a cool tool. That brown is really good - I saw some great results on fur, which I hate painting with my layering style.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 16, 2019, 10:15:05 AM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on June 15, 2019, 05:39:29 PM
Picked up a batch of the contrast paints today. My son and I are trying them out - very favourable impressions so far. I sprayed a whole batch of them earlier, but here are a couple of light-undercoated models I had lying around. The troll's had a dab of Plaguebearer Green and the demon has had Snakebite Leather on the body, Skeleton Horde on the head and Blood Angel Red on the horns.

I reckon these are going to be a godsend for getting RPG encounters ready for the table!
So did you use the GW spray they say you need or just a regular other brand spray? looks good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on June 16, 2019, 10:35:34 AM
I got a couple of contrast paints yesterday. Had a bash at a couple of skeletons I'd had lying around for a while. Painted (almost) entirely with contrast paints (apart from the metal) the whole thing took me about half an hour to do the lot.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dentatus on June 16, 2019, 11:47:57 AM
So these new GW paints are what, thick inks? Thinned paint with a high viscosity?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 16, 2019, 12:14:42 PM
Those skeletons look great!

Jagannath - I think these are going to be revolutionary for 15mm. The very bright colours among the range are going to be perfect for the 'overstated' look that works so well at that scale. My 15mm-HotT-on-28mm-bases project is looking like a very quick 'win' now. And then there's 10mm ...

The duller colours are good too. Snakebite Leather and Skeleton Horde are my favourites so far.

Beefcake - those first two figures were sprayed with Corax White, washed in Ajax Earthshade and drybrushed in Vallejo White a long time ago. I've been using the Wraithbone primer, though - it's really good. It's only very slightly off-white, and is possibly actually brighter than Corax White. I tried drybrushing some figures with Vallejo White and not bothering with others. It may make a slight difference, but I'd be keener to drybrush in Vallejo White if the figures had been sprayed with Corax; the white drybrushing creates more of a contrast on the duller Corax White even without preshading.

I've got at least 50 miniatures on the go at the moment after yesterday's spree of undercoating and testing. Here are the first two finished ones. These were dead quick to do, and the outcome is as good as I need it for fleeting RPG encounters. I might give the mushroom man's head a bit of a drybrush and wash to brighten it a bit, but I wouldn't be bothered with him as is.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=77384.0;attach=100961;image)

Dentatus - they're a bit different: like thinner Tamiya Clear paints with a better flow. They don't leave much in the way of tidemarks, so you could paint part of a robe, get interrupted and come back to it without any problem.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Exiledadmiral on June 16, 2019, 01:02:48 PM
Nice work! I'm getting very excited to try these now, got some arriving tomorrow. Those monsters look pretty great, it's nice to see the effect on some older models, not just GWs brand new plastics with all their fiddly details.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 16, 2019, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: Dentatus on June 16, 2019, 11:47:57 AM
So these new GW paints are what, thick inks? Thinned paint with a high viscosity?

I've seen some people speculate that there are 2 types of pigment being used, one main colour and a wash like an extra layer for the colour modulation. No clue if this correct.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on June 16, 2019, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: Dentatus on June 16, 2019, 11:47:57 AM
So these new GW paints are what, thick inks? Thinned paint with a high viscosity?

They look a bit like thick washes once they are on. But they handle more like paint.

For me they will be handy for eating into my lead moutain, although I will probably only use them on 'rank and file' guys. I'm going to be interested to see who better painters use them.

I only bought a couple as I was curious but I'm so impressed I'm going to order half a dozen more. Oh and AI was painting over Vallejo polyurethane primer, not the ones GW have made. Seems to work fine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on June 16, 2019, 11:59:02 PM
Ummm,I’ve been doing something similar to the contrast paints for awhile (mostly for military modelling),mixing acrylic varnish with Vallejo paints and storing the mixes in empty Tamiya paint jars; for instance I have three jars of German Black Brown of different consistency’s for spraying panel lines on aeroplanes...works a treat,also good for terrain et cetera.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: redzed on June 17, 2019, 08:15:18 AM
Quote from: Dentatus on June 16, 2019, 11:47:57 AM
So these new GW paints are what, thick inks? Thinned paint with a high viscosity?
Matt Medium with pigment added. 

Paint them over a matt coat and it will stain more, paint them over a more satin coat and they'll stain less and 'flow' more and create 'contrast'.
In the 70's people used thinned oils over white for the same effect, in the 80's lots of people would thin their acrylic paints for the same effect, (some of the period WD's have photo's of figures painted this way).
These are just a 'one stop shop' solution.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dentatus on June 18, 2019, 08:51:06 PM
No offense but it doesn't look much different than Block Painting + Dip in Wash. What am I missing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on June 18, 2019, 08:53:57 PM
Quote from: Dentatus on June 18, 2019, 08:51:06 PM
No offense but it doesn't look much different than Block Painting + Dip in Wash. What am I missing?

I think you skip the 'block' step; just prime and paint on the contrast paint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 18, 2019, 09:23:02 PM
Ultramarines Blue is not as it used to be theese days :P

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64328703_1141876999329674_2011324422983516160_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=d45fca4ce41b7e54e161ec3e4de1baeb&oe=5D78B263)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 18, 2019, 09:58:30 PM
I guess the ultramarines are getting a gritty remake, I recognize that bottom colour from most modern war movies and computer games.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 18, 2019, 11:11:56 PM
Quote from: Dentatus on June 18, 2019, 08:51:06 PM
No offense but it doesn't look much different than Block Painting + Dip in Wash. What am I missing?

I confess that I've never used the dip method, so I may be missing something, but there are quite a few differences, I reckon.

First, as Argonor says, there's one less stage involved. But the contrast paints are much quicker. The reason I've never used dip is that I gather it takes quite a while to dry (overnight?). These don't take much longer than a regular wash or glaze to dry.

Second, it's not an 'all or nothing' thing like dip. With these, you can used them on only part of each miniature. You can paint the armour conventionally, or the faces, or whatever. But you can use these to whizz through areas that are boring or inconsequential or tricky - for example, using the contrast paints on a wizard's robe and its fur lining, but doing his face and hands in a conventional manner.

Third, wet-blending: there's loads you can do with these to create smooth effects and multi-hue shading and whatnot. You could slap one of the flesh tones onto a face and work in some redd around the nose and mouth and some blues or purples around the eyes. For painters more patient and skilful than me, I suspect there's loads of ways to do interesting things very quickly.

Fourth, some of the colours do things that dips definitely don't do. The white, for example, does something that I haven't seen in other paints, and is great for fur, hair and beards in a single application - and keeps the overall colour as white. And the flesh tones are really good - again, because the shading they create is quite subtle.

Fifth, the fact that they come in so many different colours makes them really versatile. I've been trying the black over conventional steel paint; it looks great. So I'm thinking about a chaos warrior with black armour and a red helmet and gauntlets: really simple to do - just paint all the armour steel and then use the black and red contrasts over the respective areas. It'd take about ten minutes. And so on.

There may well be more!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 19, 2019, 09:21:56 AM
I'm really being swayed to buy these.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on June 19, 2019, 10:13:24 AM
As a painter rather than a gamer I don't need to get loads of minis on a table quickly, but I am very interested in the applications for armour effects and smoothing out contrasty highlights. I think I may grab a half a dozen and have a play with them. I'm thinking white, black, skeleton bone to start, possibly a flesh one - are there any other "must haves" do you reckon?


I must admit, I'm really intrigued by the white one, I've often wondered why nobody ever did a white ink or wash so this is really getting my imagination going.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 19, 2019, 10:30:26 AM
The Snakebite Leather is really good, though it is quite 'heavy'. But it's great for dealing with boots, belts and the like in a single stroke. I'd get a flesh one and either a dark brown (Wyldwood?) or a bright colour like Blood Angel Red (again, a 'strong' one).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on June 19, 2019, 11:05:02 AM
Yeah, good point, one thing I have learned is you can never have too many shades of brown!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 19, 2019, 12:05:46 PM
I'm eying the snakebite and dark greys as well, might turn my dieselpunk tanks into one coat and done jobs  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 19, 2019, 01:42:10 PM
Quote from: JollyBob on June 19, 2019, 11:05:02 AM
Yeah, good point, one thing I have learned is you can never have too many shades of brown!  lol

Words of wisdom sir!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 19, 2019, 05:56:01 PM
Quote from: AWu on June 19, 2019, 01:42:10 PM
Words of wisdom sir!
Absolutely!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on June 22, 2019, 05:47:47 PM
Quote from: JollyBob on June 19, 2019, 11:05:02 AM
Yeah, good point, one thing I have learned is you can never have too many shades of brown!  lol
There is definitely something about browns. I often find that there are adjoining areas that I want to be brown but need a wide range available to deal with contrast issues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 22, 2019, 07:42:32 PM
Quote from: JollyBob on June 19, 2019, 11:05:02 AM
Yeah, good point, one thing I have learned is you can never have too many shades of brown!  lol

50 Shades of Brown....?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 22, 2019, 09:41:52 PM
Ew. The dirty prequel.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on June 23, 2019, 05:02:59 PM
Slight change of topic, I know, but does anyone know when Age of Sigmar: Warcry is launched? My efforts to glean this rather basic information thus far have been stymied by technical issues, among others (i.e. the GW website froze when I went there, and, incredibly, the manager of my local independent games store, which sells everything GW-related, hadn't heard of it). I'm not. a GW fanboy myself, so often feel intimidated when asking about their games, very few of which I've actually played, so please be gentle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on June 23, 2019, 05:14:11 PM
I have a feeling I've seen late July being mentioned somewhere - though I'm unsure whether that's officially confirmed anywhere. As a big summer release, that seems about right - later would be quite far off, but any earlier and there would be more information out there by now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 23, 2019, 05:15:56 PM
Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on June 23, 2019, 05:02:59 PM
Slight change of topic, I know, but does anyone know when Age of Sigmar: Warcry is launched?

I thought I had read something or watched a video that stated a July release. I don't think GW has ever announced a date. I think that their pattern has been to give two weeks notice :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 24, 2019, 05:19:29 AM
I hope late July, I'm going to be hording my pennies for it (which will take a while considering the legal tender here is dollars and cents).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 24, 2019, 09:33:05 AM
I'm guessing they'll announce the release date (and hopefully another gang) at Warhammer Day next week - it seems like Warcry is the biggest new project in the can at the moment, so it'd be a fitting headline for Warhammer Day. If it is the usual fortnight notice, mid-July pre-orders I guess?

Hoping (against hope_ all the gangs are available at once, as I really want those crows!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 24, 2019, 11:43:28 AM
Staggered release I'd imagine given gws  regular release format. but probably staggered of sets not previewed I'm wondering if they'll have a few different boxes sets of 2 war bands as starter sets with the ones we've seen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 24, 2019, 12:04:02 PM
They was to ba a playable demo of it at the next GW event (end of the month so probably upcoming saturday.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 24, 2019, 12:17:26 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on June 24, 2019, 09:33:05 AM
I'm guessing they'll announce the release date (and hopefully another gang) at Warhammer Day next week - it seems like Warcry is the biggest new project in the can at the moment, so it'd be a fitting headline for Warhammer Day. If it is the usual fortnight notice, mid-July pre-orders I guess?

Hoping (against hope_ all the gangs are available at once, as I really want those crows!

Warhammer Day seems to be about Apocalypse, not Warcry, as I understood our local GW store manager correctly :-).
Expect Warcry to be released in july or early August.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 24, 2019, 02:58:09 PM
Yeah, that does seem much more likely, unfortunately (from the point of view of someone who couldn't care less about Apocalypse).

I guess we might get one more gang preview next weekend at best, then? Ho hum.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on June 24, 2019, 06:25:15 PM
Thanks everyone. So - late July / August. I wonder how long it will stay in print? I'm just getting used to the idea that the best GW games seem to have a relatively short lifespan (e.g. Underworlds: Shadespire and Warhammer Quest: the Silver Tower)
or maybe this just applies to the ones I'm attracted to. (I know Shadespire has been replaced by Nightvault, but there seem to be differences of opinion as to whether it's an improvement.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 24, 2019, 09:13:36 PM
Normally "specialist" games have a lifespan including support/new releases for about 1,5 year. Wouldn't wait too long buying their basic boxed set, though, sine Kill team was sold out ( and oop-d ) after only 3 months. We'll have it on pre-order, just to be sure ;-).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 25, 2019, 08:45:57 AM
I'm glad to have found a way around the southern hemisphere price gap now by buying from a UK stockist through ebay that does free shipping. No more second hand GW stuff for me, except for nostalgia or it is super ridiculously priced (which may be most things).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on June 25, 2019, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: beefcake on June 25, 2019, 08:45:57 AM
I'm glad to have found a way around the southern hemisphere price gap now by buying from a UK stockist through ebay that does free shipping.

Oohh, from one inhabitant of New Zealand to another, I'd be interested in knowing more if you don't mind...

I'm always looking for ways to avoid paying the bottom of the world tax on GW stuff...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 25, 2019, 03:48:14 PM
Saturday on Warhammer Day will be a special "limited  ;D" model in store and on mail order, a Sister of Battle ( Sister Superior Amalia ). No idea if she will be available later on through mail order, so if you want one better get one on saturday or be prepared to pay eBay scalper prices. The new SoB army will be released later this year.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 25, 2019, 03:51:01 PM
Quote from: Red Kop on June 25, 2019, 11:42:41 AM
Oohh, from one inhabitant of New Zealand to another, I'd be interested in knowing more if you don't mind...

I'm always looking for ways to avoid paying the bottom of the world tax on GW stuff...

Wayland perhaps? I hardly buy second hand GW anymore, price level is ridiculous, be it "Oldhammer" or oop's plastic from 6 months ago. And in the wake of that classic Ral Partha, Grenadier, Harlequin, Heartbreker etc. price levels are rising aswell, although much of that stuff is still being released by other compagnies.
Sheer madness these days...  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 25, 2019, 09:04:22 PM
I thought GW clamped down on companies sending games abroad a few years back. Wayland used to do it, but had to stop under threat of not getting any more stock - old dakka thread on the subject (https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/516314.page)

I wonder how the ebay seller is getting around it, or if they're just ignoring the restriction and hoping GW don't notice

Quote
Basically GW says to the stores "If you want to be allowed to sell GW products you can't ship them to overseas buyers." Among other things.

So your store has to sign a deal with GW to get any product to sell, and part of that deal is an agreement to sell only to "authorised" buyers, namely people in your region.

The store is free to sell any GW stuff it gets to anyone it wants, and no one can stop that. But if they do, GW won't sell them any more GW products and they'll have to stop because they have nothing to sell.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 25, 2019, 10:01:35 PM
I wonder how that works with eBays Global Shipping Program where the seller sends it to an address in their own country.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 25, 2019, 10:10:49 PM
Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on June 24, 2019, 06:25:15 PM
. (I know Shadespire has been replaced by Nightvault, but there seem to be differences of opinion as to whether it's an improvement.)

Oh, Its most definitely improvement as a gaming set.

One might argue against Living Card Game model and seasonal (MTG like) changes, but starter itself presents much more playable teams and easier start in the game.
Both Shadespire warbands are sold separately with much better cards now, but while I like to play and see regularly Garruks Khorne, Steelhearts  Eternals were just neither fun nor interesting to play..
I suggest giving it a go.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on June 26, 2019, 03:03:31 PM
Thank you, I think I will. The reservations I expressed were a result of reading this review:

https://www.alwaysboardneverboring.com/2018/12/review-warhammer-underworlds-nightvault.html
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 27, 2019, 11:39:15 AM
Only real problem with Underworlds now is that until they will retire some of the early cards (Like in M TG blocks) the game is getting quite expensive for a Tournament level gaming as you need to buy each box ever printed to get full choice of cards. (and like 50% of those cards are trash)

But if you are more casual player - using cards from the sets you have is perfectly Ok.

And if you want full experience you can just print some proxies (I do a lot - I have every card but I am keeping 8 decks build and almost half of the cards stays the same in each deck.
Best thing to do if you want to skip the hassle of knowing the cards is to start with online deck database and then modify the functioning decks with cards you personally like. It works great for me.

but If you want to start gaming and have fun Nightvault set is just better than Shadespire.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on June 27, 2019, 01:40:33 PM
Thanks again. I knew the game involved card play, but didn't realise there was a deck-building / collecting element to it. I've never been attracted to MTG and its ilk. I've tried a couple of times - not very hard, admittedly - and been left cold. I take it Underworlds is a kind of hybrid, and I'm sure it's worth a try. I don't envisage taking part in tournaments.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 27, 2019, 01:59:13 PM
Yes, its is ccg (or better Living card game as all card sets are pre constructed instead of ccg random boosters) hybrid.
You construct two decks - one consisting of cards you can play in various moment of the game and more importantly second one consisting of objectives you have to score  Glory points (points counted to win the game)

It is great game but I suggest trying it first before buying into.
As its more of a boardgame with miniatures than traditional miniature war game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on June 27, 2019, 06:28:19 PM
I've watched one or two play-throughs of Nightvault and Shadespire, but paid more attention to the minis than the gameplay, I must admit. I assume the card play makes it impractical as a solo game, but then that may be fairly academic. At my local store which stocks it I spoke to the manager briefly about it, but he hadn't played it, so couldn't tell me much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on June 27, 2019, 08:03:42 PM
I doubt its  feasible as a solo game, as scoring secret objectives is a key of the game.

It would require some form of AI similar to race for the galaxy to play properly.

And without card play its in reality a bland predictable game in which most of the factions (all that are based on scoring vp with other means than pure aggro)
are unplayable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on June 28, 2019, 12:07:34 AM
Quote from: AWu on June 27, 2019, 08:03:42 PM
I doubt its  feasible as a solo game, as scoring secret objectives is a key of the game.


My solo opponent is a damnable cheat, so he would definitely know all the secret objectives to win at all costs, the bastard.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on June 28, 2019, 02:54:10 PM
That's one reason I dislike playing solo, the other being that the idiot just can't understand the rules.

Hell, I'm going to get this game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 04, 2019, 03:28:46 AM
Any news about Warcry?

I can't be the only one fed up with these vapid previews. In White Dwarf of yore, by now there would be a few paragraphs about the minis and mechanics...

Are the figures multi-part, like the Bloodreavers, or push fit?

Could I just buy the figures or would they come with cards?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 04, 2019, 07:34:01 AM
Nothing I've seen and I agree. Need more info, not more armageddon stuff. Sick of hearing about that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 04, 2019, 03:16:52 PM
There's a big GW event in mid-July - can't remember its name right now - that they're using Warcry art to advertise, so I guess we'll hear a lot more about it soon enough.

Getting very impatient for the Crows gang, myself!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 04, 2019, 03:22:26 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 04, 2019, 03:16:52 PM
There's a big GW event in mid-July - can't remember its name right now - that they're using Warcry art to advertise, so I guess we'll hear a lot more about it soon enough.

Getting very impatient for the Crows gang, myself!
Warcry art with posed minis is the only thing I've seen so far...

I'm interested in these themed Marauders for a pit fighter/gladiator warband, but need to know if it'll take as much work as removing the iconography from Bloodreavers.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on July 04, 2019, 06:54:31 PM
If recent releases are anything to go by, multipart may be a likely but multipose is unlikely.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/EXPO-May30-WarCryCorvus11bba.jpg)
Looking at those, I suspect multipart but with/without build options. I very much doubt multipose. It'll be like Necromund I suspect but we'll have to wait to see if you can build them with different weapons/heads etc.

More - https://www.warhammer-community.com/?s=warcry
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 05, 2019, 11:48:49 AM
Daemons in the upcoming White Dwarf for Kill Team. I'll be getting that one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on July 06, 2019, 11:09:32 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 05, 2019, 11:48:49 AM
Daemons in the upcoming White Dwarf for Kill Team. I'll be getting that one.
Monstrosities from the dark, swirling maelstrom known as the warp who form themselves into organised forces that conveniently balance against their foes. Forgive my cynicism but I've never been convinced by the idea of only-daemon forces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 07, 2019, 04:10:10 AM
Just like real life battles that are always equally balanced then despite relative country sizes?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on July 07, 2019, 01:35:16 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on July 06, 2019, 11:09:32 PM
Monstrosities from the dark, swirling maelstrom known as the warp who form themselves into organised forces that conveniently balance against their foes. Forgive my cynicism but I've never been convinced by the idea of only-daemon forces.
It's almost as if it's all made up or something.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on July 07, 2019, 07:42:12 PM
Quote from: TWD on July 07, 2019, 01:35:16 PM
It's almost as if it's all made up or something.
All I'm saying is that the idea of regiments with musicians and standards tends to go against the grain of the fluff, artwork etc. I am aware that we are discussing fantasy and not historicals.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 08, 2019, 12:29:06 AM
Angelic/demonic choirs are strongly hinted in real world fluff..  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on July 08, 2019, 03:01:57 PM
Have we seen these already?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Adeptus-Mechanicus-Skorpius-Dunerider-2019

New Ad-Mech tank kit, can be assembled as a floating LDV!

I actually really like it...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: twrchtrwyth on July 08, 2019, 06:40:34 PM
Quote from: JollyBob on July 08, 2019, 03:01:57 PM
Have we seen these already?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Adeptus-Mechanicus-Skorpius-Dunerider-2019

New Ad-Mech tank kit, can be assembled as a floating LDV!

I actually really like it...
I hadn't seen it so thanks for sharing. I really like that too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 08, 2019, 10:49:40 PM
Renders look really bad (as most of them do)
but painted specimen (ess /) is wonderful
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66717898_2408791572474758_4626453576279916544_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_oc=AQlv9ErbH1wIbAq-ajgIHMBKftC07V92L_fYY1Rh9q6_OjO3YBBrh2BmoAsu9DWlXgxHCUX0fdHUBEaRlVPwBljO&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=77052f09d0cd845a68c778a75e48fef2&oe=5DB317FB)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on July 08, 2019, 10:51:28 PM
Quote from: JollyBob on July 08, 2019, 03:01:57 PM
New Ad-Mech tank kit, can be assembled as a floating LDV!

I actually really like it...

Without the guns I could really use that.
Thanks for drawing our attention to it.
 :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on July 08, 2019, 11:38:01 PM
Quote from: Mason on July 08, 2019, 10:51:28 PM
Without the guns I could really use that.
Thanks for drawing our attention to it.
 :)
Oh, I agree. Could be a great transportation for my Spaaace Otters/Badgers...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 10, 2019, 02:28:48 PM
Latest Warcry warband:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/10/warcry-a-new-warband-risesgw-homepage-post-1/

Only two words to say, really:  FUCK YES!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 10, 2019, 02:35:37 PM
more stilts? I'm detecting a theme here. I'm ok with it, but its a strange one.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 10, 2019, 10:53:59 PM
I like them but apart this Blanche stilt guy they are little nondescript
Crow dudes and Snakemollesters are much more to my liking.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 11, 2019, 06:59:48 PM
Quote from: AWu on July 10, 2019, 10:53:59 PM
I like them but apart this Blanche stilt guy they are little nondescript
Crow dudes and Snakemollesters are much more to my liking.

Those heads though... they just scream Dark Mechanicus conversion potential to me (something about them reminds me of servo skulls). They are perhaps the most useful for conversion bits out of all the gangs so far.

On that note, I can't say I'm at all interested in Warcry for the game itself, but the Crows and these guys are must-haves for me for 40k warband conversions. It is a shame so many of the Warcry sculpts are barefoot though - I guess that makes sense for Chaos gladiators, but it will need some explaining (or greenstuff) for the 41st millenium.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 12, 2019, 11:42:28 AM
Barefooted guys are my personal pet peeve in 40k..
Its 40K...
Even Romans wore sandals :P

I agree to conversion potential. Those guys could be straight 40k cultist, and with minor weapon swaps will be just perfect.
Heads are really good and I like those halos.

I hope that Warcry will be playable. I am looking for cool climatic fantasy skirmish (AoS  skirmishes left me cold) with more models than Underworlds
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on July 12, 2019, 03:34:29 PM
Maybe they're meant to be the Spartans or Zulus of their era, both of whom abjured footwear. Whatever the culture, however, some explanation is surely required for their perfect baby-pink soles - either they should be bleeding or leather-like and calloused.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 12, 2019, 04:21:13 PM
Maybe it turns out that "feet with skin like a new-born's" is a surprisingly common Chaos mutation? Bet GW are kicking themselves (ha!) they left that one off those endless, endless charts in Lost and the Damned.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on July 12, 2019, 04:39:24 PM
My guess is the solution will be found in the next addition to the Citadel Technical range. Or perhaps several solutions: corns, blisters, raw flesh, calloused flesh, etc. according to taste.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 12, 2019, 04:50:55 PM
I pity those fighting the female gang members. You know what they say, 'Hell hath no fury like a woman's corns'.





.. sorry ..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 12, 2019, 06:36:14 PM
Quote from: AWu on July 12, 2019, 11:42:28 AM
Barefooted guys are my personal pet peeve in 40k..
Its 40K...
Even Romans wore sandals :P

I agree to conversion potential. Those guys could be straight 40k cultist, and with minor weapon swaps will be just perfect.
Heads are really good and I like those halos.

I hope that Warcry will be playable. I am looking for cool climatic fantasy skirmish (AoS  skirmishes left me cold) with more models than Underworlds
Romans wore sandals (soleae) indoors and shoes or boots (calcei) outdoors...

I don't mind bare-feet, as it'll allow me to sculpt on a variety of shoes, depending on the socioeconomic status of the figure. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 13, 2019, 06:30:12 PM
Quote from: Cubs on July 12, 2019, 04:50:55 PM
I pity those fighting the female gang members. You know what they say, 'Hell hath no fury like a woman's corns'.





.. sorry ..

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/JubilantWeeklyCoati-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on July 14, 2019, 02:18:39 AM
Final Warcry band has been revealed, from the realm of light.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/14/new-models-revealed-at-the-atcgw-homepage-post-1/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 14, 2019, 12:39:06 PM
Not my favorite but it is quite unique.

Helmets remind my of Idoneth deepkin
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 14, 2019, 12:49:25 PM
Hmm...the models are nice enough but the lore...the lore...their wargear and whatnot is clearly well made and they are displaying martial skills suggesting a line of masters and yet they are described "as mad as the most frothing cultist of Tzeentch". Madness does not a culture make.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 14, 2019, 01:00:35 PM
Eh?

The models remind me of the bad old days of Citadel, when they couldn't quite decide how to represent Chaotc tendencies on a model, so decided to stick a Christmas decoration on their heads. What could be crazier than a mad hat, right?

Take the big fans off and you're left with an unsettling mask that conceals ... what? Would've been much better I reckon. Nothing a sharp knife can't solve no doubt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 14, 2019, 04:24:54 PM
I like the helmets. Its good place to put the colour on these models. I dont like the bathing suits. although I have to salute them for wearing sandals for once :P


And ties in nicely with modern elf styling
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120219004_Volturnos02.jpg)

 IMHO helmets are little to heavy for bikini clad, but while ranking them around 5th place for my favorite Warcry band - I still like them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 14, 2019, 05:05:27 PM
Did some quick photoshoppy things for altered Cypher minis:

No plume:

(https://qdjwlq.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mNW07pADVV6AP296Avcjhk9oVIZZyzHuCY2ft7cGHDJ-EYBTZSrLIFgdEabfUACFc91OQWCj_bwyBWcGRvXqpWokKN9MEWJkApnSlf23yHGulmI0chQLA-86EgV58n6OBYyVx3f42-bq9U1LIHo8R8nmKXNuMdG0SsihmPQ0VtTIaNGbWybKUpZIVw7dwLMOr546m-GnyV0_ppAZpM7d0gw?width=440&height=584&cropmode=none)

No "any of that excessive headgear":

(https://pjjwlq.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mbMF6IytzGPfHrJtaOgZKc2BTITcSs3OwPYPjTP9nUwq1FN-D-TufmL9ECb4duQXPrs_-8GboHOdvsPymdz4rCIa8alhrhWw2Y73VzzjX6NZUm1fGI-lczGEejenb9twM2VepdJFvtFF973htJXsd6EiEqW2cs7limcR5Z57kA-RKZ9wHcsXXWohcUgiS9FiLsUKwPYAc665DjIGTrsmsxQ?width=440&height=584&cropmode=none)

A Kairic Acolyte head (no idea how they will actually scale):

(https://pzjwlq.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mQU9EO8w34NwwwQXAC7Gr6QVa0FaSjoQY8hEo0lXgBRUFWQ1pMOrLihWT7YegEQBhX7LmNNMBY50c4PkhPruE5bXVDU4DC9pkpCdhDPU3HlVVlQQX1tb6oDK7DxqXBXX3rZ18zGgcvVnv6GRSG-XgHNPeLYCc4PoosAvHvy_T__iD6WSRGTJQd54o5u--IslgDfKoO2yqELLTSoqcEmV-rQ?width=440&height=584&cropmode=none)

And finally, while I was planning to try some Daughters of Khaine mask, I figured a normal head with some sort of veil might fit the aesthetics too:

(https://qtjwlq.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mGZ2VaQ5lyYNYEij3j_n68GWpX56UVHNbsEBj6q7glPrcj_w8N7_h13-Ryspq2U0U9WdfxcfWcryKBDNFY3gD7OaXcbdi4wd-XGtVZ1DPO4uL5EJqE3OVL8HbbOdnnFo71m4qQ4sxOoETRCt9HzQfeuqoWhDSHscVgtc511WytoDXMYcFy62DeZcYTkt3GGF5Cozj-jznu4tzQruVjEHqrA?width=440&height=584&cropmode=none)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 14, 2019, 07:01:24 PM
Wow...that does make quite a difference without the OTT headwear. I think the Kairic Acolyte head works the best.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 14, 2019, 07:09:30 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on July 14, 2019, 05:05:27 PM
Did some quick photoshoppy things for altered Cypher minis:



Heh
I was going to link your pics from FB here :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 14, 2019, 07:33:44 PM
Quote from: AWu on July 14, 2019, 07:09:30 PM
Heh
I was going to link your pics from FB here :)
Well, I didn't post them on FB...   lol
Put them on DakkaDakka earlier today though, wonder how quickly they ended up travelling.

EDIT: new article online, with all kinds of information, including a release date: 3rd of August, pre-orders from next Saturday.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/14/coming-soon-warcry/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 14, 2019, 08:05:53 PM
I was on Dakka looking for a better photo of that Starter set display so I might see them there :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 14, 2019, 08:47:41 PM
Yeesh, that's a lot of accessories and extra purchases for the game. I won't preorder but hear out some reviews etc first.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 14, 2019, 09:09:36 PM
Was hoping all the gangs would be available at the same time. A faint hope I know, but what the hell, sometimes I'm an optimist.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 14, 2019, 11:11:15 PM
Its surprising that third one is out at the day 1..
They had to keep the interest going as long as its possible..

I hope they wont overdo like with Necromunda.. but the gangs are ready  this time and shown already so they will be out til the years end for sure
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on July 14, 2019, 11:44:14 PM
It's very much worth pointing out that Necromunda was the first big kick off for the new Specialist games team. When it started I think they had two writers on board and a sculptor who wasn't full time with them I think.

Since then their team has grown to more than 10 people and could be more than that now.

It's also depends on the intent of the gangs. So, Necromunda sprues were always going to be more complex than say Shadespire warbands as you needed that level of choice to build gangs. You also needed to be able to diversify over more than one box as gangs like Cawdor will need more than the ten miniatures in one box.

If these warbands are going to be more limited like shadespire they should in theory be quicker to produce.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 15, 2019, 01:23:00 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 14, 2019, 08:47:41 PM
Yeesh, that's a lot of accessories and extra purchases for the game. I won't preorder but hear out some reviews etc first.
I'd like to see some actual previews, like mechanics...

Once again regular humans are ignored in favor of Sigmarines, so much for using my Dogs of War figures and even Ogre Maneaters. >:(

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/WarCryPreview-Jul14-WarbandSymbols20hhce.jpg)

The core box will be almost $200, cheaper for UK residents, and for those of us wanting a warband box for converting, I'm not happy with having to pay for the included cards. >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 15, 2019, 01:25:41 AM
Quote from: wolfen on July 14, 2019, 02:18:39 AM
Final Warcry band has been revealed, from the realm of light.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/14/new-models-revealed-at-the-atcgw-homepage-post-1/
Are these supposed to be Chaos Amazons or another mixed gender warband?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 15, 2019, 03:40:19 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on July 15, 2019, 01:23:00 AM
I'd like to see some actual previews, like mechanics...

Once again regular humans are ignored in favor of Sigmarines, so much for using my Dogs of War figures and even Ogre Maneaters. >:(

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/WarCryPreview-Jul14-WarbandSymbols20hhce.jpg)

The core box will be almost $200, cheaper for UK residents, and for those of us wanting a warband box for converting, I'm not happy with having to pay for the included cards. >:(

At least there is the option for getting the book only.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lord Raglan on July 15, 2019, 11:33:37 AM
I have never got into GW fantasy games before, but this new skirmish game looks interesting, plus the miniatures and the terrain pieces are stunning:

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2019/07/WarCry-Starter-Set-Games-Workshop.jpg)

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2019/07/Iron-Golem-Warband-Games-Workshop.jpg)

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2019/07/Untamed-Beasts-Warband-WarCry.jpg)

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2019/07/WarCry-Raptoryx-Games-Workshop.jpg)

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2019/07/WarCry-Harpies-Games-Workshop.jpg)

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2019/07/WarCry-Terrain-Games-Workshop.jpg)

This might well be my entry point for a little fantasy action  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mosstrooper on July 15, 2019, 11:41:53 AM
Looks good it all depends on the rules , hope they are better written and clearer to understand than Kill Team .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lord Raglan on July 15, 2019, 12:02:40 PM
I like the fact it's a skirmish game and the size of the warbands will make it easy to paint up within a month, but yes, it would be good to understand more about the rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 15, 2019, 12:47:13 PM
Bands will be sold separately for sure.

As to human faction.. I doubt we will see one before they will remake them for AoS
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 15, 2019, 02:00:23 PM
I wonder if GW has decided/concluded that regular old humans just don't sell in fantasy games. They might not be wrong for all I know.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 15, 2019, 03:39:40 PM
Quote from: YPU on July 15, 2019, 02:00:23 PM
I wonder if GW has decided/concluded that regular old humans just don't sell in fantasy games. They might not be wrong for all I know.

I would hazard a guess that it is more likely a case of finding ways of making the factions so distinctive that GW can aggressively protect their IP and whatnot. The Sigmar stuff works better for them in that respect than the old Empire/Bretonnians. They may also be holding back on more human factions until they develop the AoS fluff a bit more. I've no idea though.

That said, the Flagellant box must do good business for GW: the whole Inq28 converting scene would look very different without it! (That box was waaaaay ahead of its time too, doesn't seem out of place alongside the most recent stuff).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 15, 2019, 03:46:06 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 15, 2019, 03:40:19 AM
At least there is the option for getting the book only.
News to me... :-I

Part of the appeal of Mordheim, was the plastic and card rules in the box, but but here GW has gone overboard: why a folding gaming board? Pointless for running larger games. I can't be the only one bored with the cards: if I wanted to play Warmachine/Hordes, I'd invest in mercenaries. lol Cards took up too much space in games of WFB 4 and 5, so I prefer charts and pen and paper. Another thing I liked about Mordheim was John Blanche's Hieronymus Bosch inspired illustrations, in contrast with contemporary lazy looking drawings. :-[

Maybe I'm too old...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 15, 2019, 03:52:00 PM
Quote from: AWu on July 15, 2019, 12:47:13 PM
Bands will be sold separately for sure.
My issue isn't with bands being sold separately, it's with having to pay for the cards supplied with the boxes - have decks of useless cards from buying Rackham figures.
Quote from: AWu on July 15, 2019, 12:47:13 PM
As to human faction.. I doubt we will see one before they will remake them for AoS
Remake 'em as what? All the good kits, like the repacked Mordheim mercenaries, offered plenty of customization options, in contrast with the awful Empire sculpts of 7th Edition.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 15, 2019, 03:59:02 PM
Quote from: YPU on July 15, 2019, 02:00:23 PM
I wonder if GW has decided/concluded that regular old humans just don't sell in fantasy games. They might not be wrong for all I know.
AFAIK, regular humans are selling well in other fantasy settings: Warmachine mercenaries, for instance. I'd say it's purely profiteering: 3-5 Stormcast for $25-$58 in contrast with 10 spearmen - it used to be 20 spearmen for ~$25 >:( - an scrapping of knights in favor of Demi-gryph riders.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 15, 2019, 04:42:27 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 15, 2019, 03:39:40 PM
I would hazard a guess that it is more likely a case of finding ways of making the factions so distinctive that GW can aggressively protect their IP and whatnot.

Considering the funky names everything has nowadays, I think you might be right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on July 15, 2019, 06:50:55 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on July 15, 2019, 03:52:00 PM
My issue isn't with bands being sold separately, it's with having to pay for the cards supplied with the boxes - have decks of useless cards from buying Rackham figures. Remake 'em as what? All the good kits, like the repacked Mordheim mercenaries, offered plenty of customization options, in contrast with the awful Empire sculpts of 7th Edition.

  ::)

So this is a boxed game. The warbands will be expansions to that game.

As with a lot of game systems they may come with supporting cards/rules etc. That's very much life. The privateer press stuff is the same, but those tend to be far less cross compatible with other companies miniatures due to it being steampunk fantasy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 15, 2019, 09:50:58 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on July 15, 2019, 03:46:06 PM
News to me... :-I

Quote
The Core Book is included in the Starter Set, as well as being available separately at launch – perfect if you’re splitting the set with a friend and don’t want to have to share a rulebook with your new arch-nemesis!

From this link, just above the war bands subtitle quite a way down the page.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/14/coming-soon-warcry/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 15, 2019, 11:18:00 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on July 15, 2019, 03:52:00 PM
Remake 'em as what?

Who knows.
Blind water breathing elves were as surprising as Sky pirating dwarves - but I like both reskinings a lot more than plain tolkienesque dwarves and elves

Quote from: Condottiere on July 15, 2019, 03:52:00 PM
All the good kits, like the repacked Mordheim mercenaries, offered plenty of customization options, in contrast with the awful Empire sculpts of 7th Edition.

Mordheim Mercenaries was on of their best set in history, same with Bretonian man-at-arms..
But most of the models from that age were kind of dreadful..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 16, 2019, 09:11:16 AM
I have nothing constructive to add about Warcry in this post, but just wanted to note that we're now on page 666 of the thread.
Pretty fucking metal of us, I must say. Gwarcry indeed  ;) 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 16, 2019, 03:21:39 PM
(https://i1.wp.com/metalwani.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/metalheads.jpg?fit=790%2C444&ssl=1)

PS: this was my 3333th post. That must count for something too, right? :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 16, 2019, 11:42:58 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 16, 2019, 09:11:16 AM
I have nothing constructive to add about Warcry in this post, but just wanted to note that we're now on page 666 of the thread.
Pretty fucking metal of us, I must say. Gwarcry indeed  ;)

I nearly posted this yesterday! Thank you for reminding me that I’m not quite grown up after all!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on July 17, 2019, 08:14:20 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 16, 2019, 09:11:16 AM
I have nothing constructive to add about Warcry in this post, but just wanted to note that we're now on page 666 of the thread.
Pretty f**king metal of us, I must say. Gwarcry indeed  ;)
Rats, I wanted to post that ^___^
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Aerendar Valandil on July 17, 2019, 08:31:51 AM
I like some of the models and I generally feel that GW has taken a much more original road than before AOS. I think that has been botb a tendency - more fantasy went other ways than classic renissance-medieval-ish - but I think the IP played a role too.

Sadly, I usually paint so slow that I keep it with classic fantasy (and a bit of historics) and pmost models do not fit in that. They are to outlandish and the chaos is 'too much'. So it's generally not for me. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 17, 2019, 11:03:20 AM
Ok I have to avow that I wanted to post something on 666th page :P

Returning to meritum
Warcry will feature ( IMHO TooFatLardies derived and this is a good thing as they make my favorite games and with some Saga flair too :) dice pool mechanic that will decide how skills are activated and how big the outcome will be in one go - very elegant.

If only non duble dice were used in activation - one can dream.. o_o
BUT its shocking novelty and extra depth to GW game we do not see often  :o
Turns will require some tactical decision making  lol
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66756503_10157370411188236_2062990912459374592_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_eui2=AeGVk-jT7dXuBp-Rhz571wXvId4JFKm8tuRSnwpF8P36ZLhjY_QUbgvXzCTspgEe6DDmA3dm9KPihYjGeRL1TRGta5EKn2JKgE05ZEMERf9aKw&_nc_oc=AQkiTsU9ox9BTX1Jnl4yfpDMFryEmohFY_OiCvkq-iVl10iAKIqQPR5w8KmYFlQVUhMKLwAj7xbY8x1hPbBqKeir&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=7d270228c73c796b969a1b44aceb576d&oe=5DEA1035)

and for your ease, skill table looks like that
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67199333_10157370423333236_5025247921143021568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_eui2=AeEWyDPi-lT1en9GxmBlQpgFVDIc0y3iWuz4de3useu0fGusdTzH6Bh8VXcbyD5aIyE-UQoforsfezi1ayTssBOmhqZBeR0dl1Kb65GQL-ECZQ&_nc_oc=AQlRsrT9PdrLHZDHE93Ru2_Ny9-OiE7OPL6zCpBoxTFW7zUIRWdFFSKIclg6HhSluhzO-J6gFtuvlZySr9WpaWj0&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=cd63e1106b7c239a4aea72b3bef48ea7&oe=5DA01F76)

Some warriors have skill icon so only they will be able to use those skills
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 17, 2019, 11:37:31 AM
My my, that is indeed quite a different approach!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on July 17, 2019, 01:24:51 PM
We must cease posting now. Lest we advance to 667
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on July 17, 2019, 03:31:30 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on July 17, 2019, 01:24:51 PM
We must cease posting now. Lest we advance to 667

Agreed. Wouldn't want anyone's head to explode, or anything.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 17, 2019, 03:56:59 PM
Looks like this will be the last post ever in this thread then...  :D

Who dares?   lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 17, 2019, 05:34:17 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on July 17, 2019, 08:14:20 AM
Rats, I wanted to post that ^___^
As the primus poster, I had thought of bringing this up, but realized contemporary "Warhammer" is about as edgy as hipster lettuce...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 17, 2019, 05:56:09 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on July 17, 2019, 05:34:17 PM
As the primus poster, I had thought of bringing this up, but realized contemporary "Warhammer" is about as edgy as hipster lettuce...

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/cwKEyFg7TY0o0/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on July 17, 2019, 06:07:22 PM
You do not have that old paired Chaoa mutations: Exploding Head plus Regeneration?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 17, 2019, 08:42:02 PM
So, well.. looks like there might be a Warhammer 40k TV series in the near future. Live-action and everything.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/17/heretic-traitor-rogue-inquisitor-tv-stargw-homepage-post-2/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 17, 2019, 08:57:10 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on July 17, 2019, 08:42:02 PM
So, well.. looks like there might be a Warhammer 40k TV series in the near future. Live-action and everything.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/17/heretic-traitor-rogue-inquisitor-tv-stargw-homepage-post-2/
Yikes, I won't be watching that! No disrespect at all to anyone who feels differently, but I find the fiction is the weakest part of GW's output by a long way. GW hooked me through the look of the thing, especially the Goodwin sculpts and Blanche conversions. I'd see a cool mini in WD and it would suggest all sorts of world-building possibilities (even more true now of the amazing multi-part kits that all fit so well together - soooooo much conversion potential). I never got anything much out of how the fiction bits would fill up that space of possibilities.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 17, 2019, 09:10:13 PM
I like the backstory but don't really think grimdark translates well to the screen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on July 17, 2019, 09:33:30 PM
Being a bit old school and having worked for them back in '98 (in a store as a keytimer for not a long period of time) I was reliably informed back then that game canon and Black Library were two different things.

As such, I look at them as two seperate product lines that whilst related are not as entwined or reliant upon each other as some would think.

The books have been successful though and it's only logical that they would try a TV show at some point.

A group of friends and I were discussing this the other day and felt that an Inquisitor or Rogue Trader crew would be the best approach. Coupled with a Firefly vibe.

Grimdark isn't how GW has always been depicted. Most of the fluff is written from the perspective of the higher echelon's of the Imperium, but in the past planets and stories  have been far more steeped in popular culture. So there is plenty of room to minimise that.

It could be fun, my main worry is they tie it down too much to existing books rather than using a possible show to be a way of introducing and visiting various aspects of the 40k universe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 17, 2019, 09:46:13 PM
The Eisenhorn series isn't all that 'grimdark' from my point of view, it's more of a cyberpunk/noir action series set in the 40K verse. Abnett's stuff is called "Abnettverse" by the fandom because it is fairly non-canon and has a lot of stuff that doesn't seem to fit the rest of the established fiction.

That said I like his stuff quite a bit, just re-read the Eisenhorn books last week and am almost through Ravenor again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 17, 2019, 11:29:48 PM
Damn.. that should ba a last story on page 666.. Some moderator need to cut few post :P


As a general rule I do not read stuff about space marines as I find it mostly lacking or hack and slash but I like to read some non marine stuff. Off course its a bit silly pulp literature for the most part but some of the characters and stories are really cool and well made.
Shia Calpurnia Arbitrator series are cool noir meets Dread, Ciapas Cain is quite repetitive but well done parody, Necromunda stuff is really down to earth  and Inquisition series are things worth read if one likes broader world of 40k.
In my opinion Eisenhorn is best piece of fiction out of GW stable.

So they chosen wisely but lets hope they will do him justice or there will be a lot of disappointed fans :)

But I hope for models accompanying the release most of course :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on July 18, 2019, 01:51:10 AM
Yep,Dan Abnett is the best,though the last 1st and Only novel was disappointing, Shia Calpurnia is great, possibly the most literate 40k novel, and the Night Lords trilogy is good too(can't remember the author, oh that's right Aaron Demski something or another). Most of the others are repetitive, and a bit boys own adventure...
PS Double  Eagle by D. Abnett is my fave,along with his hard sci fi novel Embedded (not a 40k ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 18, 2019, 09:01:18 AM
I have a bit of mixed feelings about this news.

On the one hand, I'm rejoicing, as it's long, long overdue that a high production value 40K movie or series is made. Considering the fact that much smaller franchises have made it to the silver screen, riding a big budget, it's baffling that 40K never got this before now. Especially since the 40K fandom, even though often subdued and (somewhat) secret in real life, is quite substantial and global.

Part of the reason for this on the other hand, probably is GW's former stance on fan projects such as Damnatus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYt3aFiheEI), which was in production for years, had a very tight budget (all self funded I believe), had a (sort of) stamp of approval from GW, but when they wanted to release it, it was C&D'd to death (because of German copyright laws, if I understood correctly).

It, and many other (much less ambitious) projects, were quite bad obviously. Shoestring budgets, amateur actors, directors, prop makers etc, all made these projects fall into the 'so bad it's good' category most of the times. But they were all lovingly made, and they at least gave us 40K on screen, something GW hadn't done since Inquisitor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClfhBZR9-As). This was the last (and only) official live action GW movie, and it was on par with, or even worse than, a lot of fan made stuff (especially Damnatus). It was official, but apparently suffering from the same restrictions as all those later fan projects; low budget, well willing but inadequate actors, low quality props, etc.

Then, after many years, GW released Ultramarines (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsvCLG1QZjs), a CG film heralded as cutting edge, with a great story, but it was equally terrible, with dated CG, a badly scripted and edited story (if you could even call it that), and it was an all out disappointment. Most computer games cut-scenes (including those from 40K games!) were much better quality. In fact, in-game footage of contemporary 40K computer games such as Space Marine was much better!

GW just never put in the funds required to release a film worth the watch, because they wanted to keep everything in-house, and they simply did not have the funds to do it right. So teaming up with larger production houses is the only way to go, and with the new direction GW has taken, they have now finally seen the light.

So here's to hoping this project will do the entire franchise justice (for once), and we won't be solely dependent on fan projects for our on-screen 40K fix. What is desperately required though, are people who understand the universe through and through and know about all the intricate little details of the 40K world. And not through just reading Eisenhorn front to back (which certainly is worth it), but also the other fiction, especially the older stuff, so they also know about the evolution, retcons and progression of the fluff.

And it's obvious they will have to live up to quite the standard these days. I mean; check out the more than excellent recent fan projects, such as Astartes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI9c_PbdfD4), Helsreach (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMdHfOC7VQ) or Guardsman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bgi5STRe8E&list=PLkIeFCvRifOPw9vt2iwlMo9LJU7aUeOeI)... 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 18, 2019, 09:26:11 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on July 17, 2019, 09:46:13 PM
The Eisenhorn series isn't all that 'grimdark' from my point of view, it's more of a cyberpunk/noir action series set in the 40K verse. Abnett's stuff is called "Abnettverse" by the fandom because it is fairly non-canon and has a lot of stuff that doesn't seem to fit the rest of the established fiction.

That said I like his stuff quite a bit, just re-read the Eisenhorn books last week and am almost through Ravenor again.

That's good, hopefully they'll go down the non grimdark path and bring in some of the old school poking fun at the hobby look too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 18, 2019, 10:22:11 AM
I hope they can reach the levels of awesome seen in Final Liberation's cutscenes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 18, 2019, 11:14:50 AM
Quote from: FionaWhite on July 18, 2019, 10:22:11 AM
I hope they can reach the levels of awesome seen in Final Liberation's cutscenes.

Eisenhorn is decidedly more low key than the epic (sic) battles in Final Liberation.

As said; it's more a detective/noir type of narrative, with a lot of cloak and dagger stuff. But there is a lot of skirmish sized action which would translate into live action perfectly. And most of those scenes are really thrilling. In fact, the entire trilogy is one big page turner.

Especially the widely differing settings on all the planets he visits are gripping, as each is completely different from the next, with local cultures also vastly different from each other, just like customs, clothing, technology etc. It's an almost Dr. Who-ish kaleidoscope of settings.


My favourite 40K book though, is Space Marine by Ian Watson. In many ways, it was the seminal work on Space Marines, basically defining the SM fluff, as at that time (late Rogue Trader), there was no clearly described background for Space Marines. Ian Watson was specifically hired to flesh this out in fiction. He was also an established scifi author, and not an eager GW employee writing sanctified fan fiction (as happened a lot later on), and it shows. It's quite a ride, as its content feels almost feverish and constantly on edge, and much weirdness is included that has later been watered down, changed or completely omitted.

He went on to write the Draco trilogy too, which would later be known as The Inquisition War (Draco, Harlequin and Chaos Child). This work probably was the inspiration for Abnett to later write Eisenhorn. I have to admit though that the Eisenhorn trilogy is far superior to the Draco one. Especially the ending of the Draco trilogy feels rushed, but here too, much of the foundation of 40K fluff was laid down, a lot which resonates to this day.

Much of the content of Space Marine and Draco, Harlequin and Chaos Child has been retconned in one way or another in the following decades, but for me, they still stand as the granddaddy of all 40K novels that came after 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 18, 2019, 12:29:00 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on July 18, 2019, 11:14:50 AM
Eisenhorn is decidedly more low key than the epic (sic) battles in Final Liberation.

As said; it's more a detective/noir type of narrative, with a lot of cloak and dagger stuff. But there is a lot of skirmish sized action which would translate into live action perfectly. And most of those scenes are really thrilling. In fact, the entire trilogy is one big page turner.

Especially the widely differing settings on all the planets he visits are gripping, as each is completely different from the next, with local cultures also vastly different from each other, just like customs, clothing, technology etc. It's an almost Dr. Who-ish kaleidoscope of settings.


My favourite 40K book though, is Space Marine by Ian Watson. In many ways, it was the seminal work on Space Marines, basically defining the SM fluff, as at that time (late Rogue Trader), there was no clearly described background for Space Marines. Ian Watson was specifically hired to flesh this out in fiction. He was also an established scifi author, and not an eager GW employee writing sanctified fan fiction (as happened a lot later on), and it shows. It's quite a ride, as its content feels almost feverish and constantly on edge, and much weirdness is included that has later been watered down, changed or completely omitted.

He went on to write the Draco trilogy too, which would later be known as The Inquisition War (Draco, Harlequin and Chaos Child). This work probably was the inspiration for Abnett to later write Eisenhorn. I have to admit though that the Eisenhorn trilogy is far superior to the Draco one. Especially the ending of the Draco trilogy feels rushed, but here too, much of the foundation of 40K fluff was laid down, a lot which resonates to this day.

Much of the content of Space Marine and Draco, Harlequin and Chaos Child has been retconned in one way or another in the following decades, but for me, they still stand as the granddaddy of all 40K novels that came after 8)

Ooh, I wasn't quite referring to the scale of conflicts depicted, rather to the epicness of acting and effects seen.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 18, 2019, 01:39:24 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on July 18, 2019, 12:29:00 PM
Ooh, I wasn't quite referring to the scale of conflicts depicted, rather to the epicness of acting and effects seen.  :D
Ah, you mean Lieutenant Gruber as Planetary Governor and farting orks?  ;D lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 18, 2019, 01:59:28 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on July 18, 2019, 01:39:24 PM
Ah, you mean Lieutenant Gruber as Planetary Governor and farting orks?  ;D lol

High Inquisitor Blackader, is that you?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 18, 2019, 02:04:08 PM
Quote from: YPU on July 18, 2019, 01:59:28 PM
High Inquisitor Blackader, is that you?

That would actually be quite memorable :P


Lets be honest.. bar of expectations set by previous GW attempts was set low..
But even mediocre series created today are mostly watchable...

Even if it will be really bad it will by Ok :P
My biggest hope is they went road of GOT and went X rated byt I fear they will want it watchable by kids without parental supervision... so PG 13 max.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 18, 2019, 02:52:20 PM
Quote from: YPU on July 18, 2019, 01:59:28 PM
High Inquisitor Blackader, is that you?

 lol
I'd pay to see that, to be honest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 18, 2019, 04:19:14 PM
Woo, page 668 - the neighbour of the beast!

The Blackadder Christmas Special has something close to High Inquisitor Blackadder, and at one point High Inquisitor Baldrick as well.

On GW stuff, those of you who read a lot of the fiction - are any novels focussed on characters who aren't heroic and don't perform any great deeds, they just try to survive (kinda like a 40k version of McCarthy novels like Blood Meridian and The Road)?

I ask because one reason I prefer e.g. Blanche's vision of the 40k setting to what I've got from dipping into the fiction is that JB has a real soft spot for the unremarkable denizens of the imperium: while almost all the fiction I've read is all about super dudes doing big things, JB is busy converting and painting a poxy old man armed with nothing but a stick  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 18, 2019, 04:39:40 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 18, 2019, 04:19:14 PM
On GW stuff, those of you who read a lot of the fiction - are any novels focussed on characters who aren't heroic and don't perform any great deeds, they just try to survive

Well, if you like Blackadder, there's Ciaphas Cain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciaphas_Cain)...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 18, 2019, 06:06:38 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 18, 2019, 04:19:14 PM

On GW stuff, those of you who read a lot of the fiction - are any novels focussed on characters who aren't heroic and don't perform any great deeds, they just try to survive (kinda like a 40k version of McCarthy novels like Blood Meridian and The Road)?

I ask because one reason I prefer e.g. Blanche's vision of the 40k setting to what I've got from dipping into the fiction is that JB has a real soft spot for the unremarkable denizens of the imperium: while almost all the fiction I've read is all about super dudes doing big things, JB is busy converting and painting a poxy old man armed with nothing but a stick  :-*

Necromunda novels are closest in My opinion.
But avoid Kal Jeriko ones as he is paragon hero and mary sue and kick ass at every opportunity.

Try Junktion. Its  most down to earth Ive read. And its actually quite interesting.
Its about a city in the underhive which is raided by the guild death squad because light flickered uphive (as the city steals power to survive) and social and political changes it brings and reconstituting social order. Main protagonist is lamp lighter - he walks around and changes the bulbs in lamps. IIRC he has two pages of heroics when he defends himself from some ganger and kills a scavie. But generally its hard fight for survival.




Ciapas Cain is Harry Flashman 40k. But he is much more heroic than the original :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 18, 2019, 08:23:52 PM
Quote from: AWu on July 18, 2019, 06:06:38 PM
Try Junktion. Its  most down to earth Ive read. And its actually quite interesting.

I'd heartily recommend Junktion, it is quite good. I think it's the best description of an underhive setting. The other Necro books are really random in quality.

The Enforcer/Shira Calpurnia series are great for 40K setting description, beyond the battlefield.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 18, 2019, 08:52:53 PM
Junktion sounds cool, will give it a go. Cheers dudes!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on July 18, 2019, 09:16:20 PM
Yep Junktion is good,written by rhe same fellow who wrote the Calpurnia novels.
Going off topic a little; has anyone read the Kingdom comics by D.Abnett,or the novel Fiefdom in the same setting? Rather good post- apocalyptic with a sense of humour,and a bit of analogy  ,I've have often thought about converting a Goliath into a Gene the Hackman.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 18, 2019, 09:43:50 PM
Here is my take on lamp lighter Kaas protagonist of Junktion (sory for not the best photo)  :)
(I built him after reading the book - so rich for inspiration it is as would master Yoda said :) but now he is my Dome runner in NeoMunda)

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wlAOL3i01jo/XHkbmhqsWCI/AAAAAAAAGzQ/A9tpGCcvg08JCdkPKsE_18wVoPSP6PjVACKgBGAs/s1600/53043128_264591471124097_344018457978732544_n.jpg)

Only protagonist of GW nowel I built (I started to work on Eisenhorn but long before he had a book :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on July 18, 2019, 09:48:31 PM
Nicely done 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 18, 2019, 09:55:08 PM
Quote from: Blackwolf on July 18, 2019, 09:16:20 PM
,I've have often thought about converting a Goliath into a Gene the Hackman.

Havent read that but go for it.
Making characters its actually great fun.

BTW: Said that Eisenhorn trillogy is probably best piece of fiction ever written for 40K , I cannot say the same about Raveonr trillogy (direct continuation) but world-building in Ravenor is best Abnettt ever did. Its worth the read just for Carnivora, Planet with cyber birds and animal farming agri world. Those settings are just perfect for Inquisimunda gaming.
And cattle rustler gangs and outlaws is a port of Necromunda I think about since last 15 years* :)

*That is my second longest project I havent do a thing for - first being Sump based Necro-morka with boats and spider hunting I conceptualized in 1996 :P
But one of those days!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 19, 2019, 03:46:14 AM
What is Warcry going cost us? Updated Now with UK Prices (http://natfka.blogspot.com/2019/07/what-is-warcry-going-cost-us-updated.html)...

Some bizarre pricing for US residents: the hardcover is closer to the exchange rate of £1=$1.25, but the box is £100 vs $170...  :-I

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KRihQ-i7-Zo/XS7ZTrWaiRI/AAAAAAABoxA/2_qnVrzcTEc_5_KrzGEilK1NzVD2y5aOQCLcBGAs/s1600/warcry.PNG)(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Lg-NQbX2okM/XS7ZTijoYKI/AAAAAAABow8/TFCWC4P8DfA1xpJP9629n_QaFZcBKN4_wCLcBGAs/s1600/warcry2.PNG)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7PsSSmhhk9U/XSyTOTp43NI/AAAAAAABots/N2CQpUKhWLkxbCw1bU3PKEnDic4-ZGQnQCLcBGAs/s1600/precios%2Bwarcry.jpg)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--nWAjM58Utg/XSzSg30GkfI/AAAAAAABouA/mpiLHv4GDPAVBjEd5Hv36XPVypaemGHnACLcBGAs/s1600/thumbnail_image%2B%25281%2529.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 19, 2019, 04:40:38 AM
"Only" $50 for an 8-9 miniature warband box....and to think I liked the miniatures.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 19, 2019, 05:43:15 AM
Quote from: Elbows on July 19, 2019, 04:40:38 AM
"Only" $50 for an 8-9 miniature warband box....and to think I liked the miniatures.  lol
You're paying for the experience! lol

Speaking of the miniatures...

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/WarcryUnboxing-Jul15-IronGolemSprues6jcje.jpg)

If the Iron Golems are an indicator, there are no customization options, hence the focus on the cards - definitely not Mordheim 2.0. :-[

If the cards are packaged with the warband boxes, does this mean the stats won't be in the rulebook? I like the Cypher Lords "ninja" style feel, so why not use the cards with 80s Citadel ninjas? What's the worst that could happen?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 19, 2019, 08:04:53 AM
There are apparently a handful of modeling options in some of the kits, though it doesn't appear they have any actual impact on the miniatures.  And yes, the cards are the characters and that's it.  No modification, no experience, no weapon swaps, no long-lasting health penalties, etc.  It's a super streamlined game (and not in a terribly positive fashion).

It's aimed at the folks who want to play a very streamlined game in 30-35 minutes and set up and go again.  That's not my style of game.  It'll do well I'm sure.  They have removed all of the "steps" to fighting someone.  You make one roll, and on a '6' you do double damage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 19, 2019, 08:30:47 AM
On the plus side it's only $15 for a ruler!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 19, 2019, 10:00:12 AM
That's a nice looking Iron Golem sprue! Soooooooooo much conversion potential!

I was going to hold off until the Crows come out, but I may not be able to resist the Golems.

Gameplay actually sounds really interesting, and closer to some of the things I loved about 2nd ed Space Marine (initiative changes each turn, no tedious roll to hit then again to wound process) while also some mechanics GW haven't tried before. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 19, 2019, 10:32:57 AM
In the upper right corner there is a mace and a kind of flail - you can chose and they mentioned that one option has greater reach.
And last trooper can have chain and mace or mace and hammer - my guess is that this one too isnt cosmetic :)
But thats appear to be all.
Those are like metal miniatures of old.Just easier to cut  lol

I agree - it wont be Mordheim style game.
its Kill team.
Its sad that they did not make AoS Necromunda but I guess Kill team sold better...

Hey, we are living in a times of 20 pound per squat.. 50$ for 8-9 models dont sound that bad :P
(https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99550599037_NECRagnirGunnsteinSquatAmmojack01.jpg)

Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 19, 2019, 10:00:12 AM
That's a nice looking Iron Golem sprue! Soooooooooo much conversion potential!

I was going to hold off until the Crows come out, but I may not be able to resist the Golems.

Gameplay actually sounds really interesting, and closer to some of the things I loved about 2nd ed Space Marine (initiative changes each turn, no tedious roll to hit then again to wound process) while also some mechanics GW haven't tried before.

Agree on both counts. I will pre order and I actually want to try and play this game - a thing I cannot say when I bought some Kill Team expansions :P

Mordheim is a great game in every aspect apart from an actual game playing rules :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 19, 2019, 12:40:00 PM
Err...is he going to load his shotgun with...a spanner...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 19, 2019, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 19, 2019, 12:40:00 PM
Err...is he going to load his shotgun with...a spanner...?

You mean there's another way?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 19, 2019, 01:58:10 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 19, 2019, 12:40:00 PM
Err...is he going to load his shotgun with...a spanner...?

Don't ask me.. I had the same question :)

My guess is he is servicing the gun, as he is ammo jack - extra to help you gang conserve and upkeep your equipment and ammo
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 19, 2019, 02:10:30 PM
I'd love to see GW figure designers on their way to work. They must carry literally everything they own with them all the time, each hand filled with some bulky item and a poorly secured backpack slung over one shoulder with more stuff bulging out of it, whilst their belts presumably carry their keys, phones, etc..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 19, 2019, 02:39:34 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 19, 2019, 12:40:00 PM
Err...is he going to load his shotgun with...a spanner...?

Maybe he's fixing it? (That's the best I can do, sorry. Does look suspiciously like the designer got caught in two minds about the pose).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cosmotiger on July 19, 2019, 03:15:59 PM
Looks like he's about to make a very delicate adjustment with his high precision gunsmith tools.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 19, 2019, 03:45:18 PM
The look on his face says: "How in holy terras name did that get in there?"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on July 19, 2019, 04:16:30 PM
Silly answers. Quite obviously, he's just used the spanner to straighten his mohican.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 19, 2019, 04:44:53 PM
Clearly he needs a large tool to get three crates of ammo in that gun, how else is he going to get it all in there?

and to be fair isn't it looking more like an adjustable wrench?

So maybe its just for adjusting stuff that he can't adjust with his armor plated hand? A little bit of Wrenching about?

Looking at his should he looks to be bolted together everywhere so probably there are some nuts we cannot see on the gun, or other nuts that he needs it to adjust.

Yeah I would go for that, he shoots with one hand and adjusts his loose nuts with his adjustable wrench so can do all sizes, keeps it in his hand as if he puts it in his GW  bag it will fall out and get lost. Never be able to adjust his nuts again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 19, 2019, 06:06:20 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 19, 2019, 04:44:53 PM
Yeah I would go for that, he shoots with one hand and adjusts his loose nuts with his adjustable wrench so can do all sizes, keeps it in his hand as if he puts it in his GW  bag it will fall out and get lost. Never be able to adjust his nuts again.
Are there awards for risqué out of context posts? :o

I should point out Condottiere is primus poster 69er... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 19, 2019, 06:08:52 PM
I'll get my hat..

Still, more on topic, although they may be interesting space dwarfs and all but plastics for 20 pounds a pop, each.

oww...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 19, 2019, 06:35:18 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 19, 2019, 06:08:52 PM
I'll get my hat..

Still, more on topic, although they may be interesting space dwarfs and all but plastics for 20 pounds a pop, each.

oww...
You're paying for the privilege of playing with plastic... ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 19, 2019, 07:03:18 PM
Well according to some sources.. its much better than anything cast in metal don't you know.

It's GW so whatever the material its a privilege to play with.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on July 19, 2019, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: AWu on July 18, 2019, 09:55:08 PM

*That is my second longest project I havent do a thing for - first being Sump based Necro-morka with boats and spider hunting I conceptualized in 1996 :P
But one of those days!!!

^^^ same, that and “Gorkamorka on da water” idea I had... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 19, 2019, 08:48:39 PM
I too have dreamed of a sump spider hunt game. I've been accumulating parts for many years ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 19, 2019, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on July 19, 2019, 08:48:39 PM
I too have dreamed of a sump spider hunt game. I've been accumulating parts for many years ;)
Haha, it seems a number of us have had the same idea. The only mini I still have from my early 90s attempt at a Tyranid army is the big spider-squig, for precisely this purpose.
Not done anything else towards actually playing such a game, though. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 19, 2019, 10:31:38 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on July 19, 2019, 08:39:32 PM
^^^ same, that and “Gorkamorka on da water” idea I had... lol

Quote from: Dr Mathias on July 19, 2019, 08:48:39 PM
I too have dreamed of a sump spider hunt game. I've been accumulating parts for many years ;)

Call me Ismael but we have to make a community project  o_o lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 20, 2019, 12:11:23 AM
Well Warcry preorders are up here in NZ. I'm out, at least of the boxed set. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/searchResults?N=1997019759+3206404541
$330, that's like a big BIG weeks grocery shopping for a family of five, you know, one of those weeks where everything needs buying at once and then you raid the chocolate bars at the checkout to console yourself with how much it is going to cost but it only pushes the price up even higher *with some change to spare).
And that's just the regular starter set, THere's an even more expensive one!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 20, 2019, 12:23:09 AM
That one is a bundle with some book :)

I am never paying full retail for GW stuff locally (and we are not so ripped off like people Down under - Jesus.. it cost more than 1/3 less here full retail) and it is expensive  but I still regret not getting Killteam starter.
It you want to play the game its like
Core rules 83
two bands 99+99
Thats 281
And this terrain, board and cards ( 38 $) are surely worth 50
(Second terrain set cost 180)

So its still a good deal  :o
Just good deal on very expensive toys
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on July 20, 2019, 01:02:02 AM
Quote from: AWu on July 19, 2019, 10:31:38 PM
Call me Ismael but we have to make a community project  o_o lol
Not a bad idea 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on July 20, 2019, 10:22:43 AM
Someone has already started a Necromunda on water project I believe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 20, 2019, 12:24:43 PM
This is all rather off-topic, but I've always enjoyed the idea of apocalypse on the water as you can scatter your terrain a bit more hodge podge due to stuff falling over, and the perfectly flat surface of say a battle mat makes good sense as water surface.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 20, 2019, 12:49:12 PM
Ive started with mutant pirates, but those made so far are slightly underarmed for munda
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on July 20, 2019, 02:04:23 PM
Ooh a 40k water world I like that ,  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 20, 2019, 03:50:13 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on July 20, 2019, 10:22:43 AM
Someone has already started a Necromunda on water project I believe.

Correct, it's called "Mare Solum". There's a Facebook group for it. I think Jimbibbly has made some stuff for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 20, 2019, 04:12:21 PM
And Warhammer Underworlds season 3 announced, Beastgrave.
They sure like to keep up the pace, don't they?  :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MeridarchGekkota on July 20, 2019, 05:12:13 PM
Well that "Age of Sigmar Open Day" was a disappointment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 20, 2019, 07:57:51 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on July 20, 2019, 04:12:21 PM
And Warhammer Underworlds season 3 announced, Beastgrave.
They sure like to keep up the pace, don't they?  :P

Well Seasons are part of the game but IMHO it would work better in 18 or 24 month seasons and better spread releases.

I wonder if this is a centaur ur an elf with an animal companion (I need a centigor for my beastmen for Mordheim so I might be biased :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on July 21, 2019, 12:50:54 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on July 20, 2019, 03:50:13 PM
Correct, it's called "Mare Solum". There's a Facebook group for it. I think Jimbibbly has made some stuff for it.

Unfortunately Facebook is not my thing,I did try...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 21, 2019, 02:45:08 AM
Quote from: MeridarchGekkota on July 20, 2019, 05:12:13 PM
Well that "Age of Sigmar Open Day" was a disappointment.
How so?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 21, 2019, 03:28:30 AM
Cypher Lords (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warcry-Cypher-Lords-2019)

AoS stats (https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls//ENG_Warcry_AoS_Warscroll_CypherLords.pdf)

Minimum unit size of 8($53.13 - incl MA 6.25% sales tax) and maximum 32($212.50)... :-I

I've got 30 Citadel ninjas, so will buy one box for the cards. Not sure why the Thrallmaster is on a 32mm round, while the rest are on 25s. :? If one in 8 models must be a Thrallmaster, how can 1 in 8 must be a Luminate? Should it be "or"?

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120201085_WCCypherLords07.jpg)(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120201085_WCCypherLords08.jpg)(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120201085_WCCypherLords09.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 21, 2019, 03:53:45 AM
Quote from: Blackwolf on July 21, 2019, 12:50:54 AM
Unfortunately Facebook is not my thing,I did try...

You're probably better off for it :)

I really like the look of the Warcry stuff, but I simply have to draw the line somewhere. Sisters of Battle are coming up too...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 21, 2019, 07:18:32 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on July 21, 2019, 03:28:30 AM
I've got 30 Citadel ninjas, so will buy one box for the cards. Not sure why the Thrallmaster is on a 32mm round, while the rest are on 25s. :? If one in 8 models must be a Thrallmaster, how can 1 in 8 must be a Luminate? Should it be "or"?
Base sizes differentiate unit types in Warcry.
As for the model limits, they just want/force you to use multiples of a box. 1 in 8 minis represents a Thrallmaster, 1 in 8 a Luminate, 6 out of 8 "others".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 21, 2019, 09:36:00 AM
Quote from: AWu on July 20, 2019, 07:57:51 PM
I wonder if this is a centaur ur an elf with an animal companion (I need a centigor for my beastmen for Mordheim so I might be biased :P

That one might be the lion ( behind an Elf/Aelf/whatever it's called these days ) they showed earlier, I'm afraid.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 21, 2019, 09:47:54 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on July 21, 2019, 03:28:30 AM
Cypher Lords (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warcry-Cypher-Lords-2019)

AoS stats (https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls//ENG_Warcry_AoS_Warscroll_CypherLords.pdf)

Minimum unit size of 8($53.13 - incl MA 6.25% sales tax) and maximum 32($212.50)... :-I

I've got 30 Citadel ninjas, so will buy one box for the cards. Not sure why the Thrallmaster is on a 32mm round, while the rest are on 25s. :? If one in 8 models must be a Thrallmaster, how can 1 in 8 must be a Luminate? Should it be "or"?


Thrallmaster is a character ( don't know his background ) but characters in many rules systems come on a larger base. In AoS, Chaos Marauders ( Bloodreavers they're now called? ) come on 25mm whilst Chaos Warriors ( no idea what they're called these days ) on 32mm. I don't see that as strange. Might look even better  ;). Fun thing is, I see they use next to 25mm bases also 28mm bases in this gang.
The battle scroll I read that out of every 8 models 1 must be a Thrallmaster and 1 must be a Luminate. So that leaves you with 6 other warriors per box of 8. You want 2 boxes? Then you have 2 Thrallmasters, 2 Luminates and 14 other warriors. And so on...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 21, 2019, 12:34:58 PM
Oof, that cities of sigmar book's going to be pricey, I can feel it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 02:43:47 PM
Quote from: Blackwolf on July 21, 2019, 12:50:54 AM
Unfortunately Facebook is not my thing,I did try...

I think you'd do right to just look up the pics on google and keep well away from the facebook groups.

(SMALL RANT INCOMING)

I loved them at first and for ages something was ''off''that I couldn't quite put my finger on, it wasn't until a guy on one of the inq28 facebook groups went on a rant that I realised what.

All of the inq28/aos28/blanchitsu-aligned FB groups have become more than a little clique-ish with John Blanche kind of at the core, he seemingly can do no wrong and is tbh brusque and at times quite rude.

The ranter accused them of having an inner circle and while I agree with Mr Blanches rejoinder that it was just him and a group of friends(a man can have a close knit friends group of course)...it does feel that way, they all host games, big up each others stuff and the rank and file of the group seemingly are superfluous.

Also he is seemingly permanently unhappy despite having a legion of adoring fans that would in all probability do anything for him and constantly comlains of attention on social media, has deleted past accounts...yet stays about.

A major bugbear of Mr Blanches is everyone trying to achieve his style(which he freely admits he got by copying classical artist) and while I fully get that attempts to monetise it for facebook/youtube are too far, I dont see the harm in people doing it for themselves and as the ranty man pointed out, he seemingly doesn't have a problem when its one of the ''inner circle'' doing it.

Tbh now the whole thing is dragging me down, the whole thing has gone a wee bit cultish and as a regular member I just feel discouraged from posting.

(SMALL RANT ENDED)

Sorry if this has come out of left field, been holding it in for a while and have nowhere else to share it as the original guy got deleted (I was looking forward to a bit of spirited debate) and it was made clear that dissenting thought with regards to mr blanche would not be tolerated on any of the groups.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 21, 2019, 03:35:12 PM
Well that does sound rather naff. TBH while I like some of his stuff on the whole its a bit OTT for my tastes and I think he pushes things to extremes, which is good for the creative process, but I much prefer it when his concepts are dialled back slightly for production.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 03:46:32 PM
The whole thing has become rather naff, part of me suspects this might be part of some brilliant performance piece that's too highbrow to even be comprehended, especially the fact that he purposefully types in a weird fashion (he spells my as 'mii' for example).

He seems to take offence easily and be very suspicions of even the most innocuous of questions, you can ask him ''hey have you heard of X movie?'' and he'll answer ''...no I don't kno wat that is...'' (ellipses included).

Personally I find this community much more encouraging in many levels, while some boards have their ''stars'' their doesn't seem to be any outright domination by any one member.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 21, 2019, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on July 21, 2019, 09:36:00 AM
That one might be the lion ( behind an Elf/Aelf/whatever it's called these days ) they showed earlier, I'm afraid.

nah
Cenrtaur elf for sure
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/66839609_10157379380988236_3366434296188370944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_eui2=AeFOc6kduP3SK5c7rgOhazUC7rz2S_mU0gorIshQPOrJ7RlQ_r26xNcItya1yZPR0oq1CMl-arGN1337zmlXAW0zoZpbncT9_0U3qNDn-CUjLQ&_nc_oc=AQlmNPZyiWRQR-ACLbM6yHI4TAOL9vv412OpmjtaYTJ_VXZHEQGYZE4hVuVGWqiMb_ZWPHu9aT3bBE7_8xN3yb2i&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=ceebf1917cfab1d8ffb8e9d43b83fe38&oe=5DA8CF8C)

As to Fb

Well I am user n many groups and I think its great thing - but for showing up miniature projects forum is just much superior tool.
Searching for one pic of a mini I saw 6 months ago is just impossible on most of the groups I am in.
Said that its great for community projects and group communication and building.

Groups are very very different though. From all love and be merry ME gaming group (nicest one of the large groups Ive seen) to a sour and bad attitude 40k.

While JB is just grumpy old man and can be rude at a times (well most of the times)he is a master of the art of world building and visuals. Whatever I like it or not (and I love most of his work despite being unable to replicate anything Blanchistsu :)
But I am looking at his Inner circle minis on the blogs mostly I haven't seen anything off putting bvut I suspect that when you post non Blanschitsu stuff on prominently Blanschitsu group you are not that interesting to the rest of the group.. Same is on 15mm sci fi group - you might feel strange if you are not into blower memes and inside jokes (that sometimes compromise of the half of the group output) :P
To each his own. I think that there is place for just anyone on Fb hobby related.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 21, 2019, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 21, 2019, 03:35:12 PM
Well that does sound rather naff. TBH while I like some of his stuff on the whole its a bit OTT for my tastes and I think he pushes things to extremes, which is good for the creative process, but I much prefer it when his concepts are dialled back slightly for production.

Same. I never 'got it'. He's very very good at portraying the seedy, crumbling decay of a once proud empire type image. His unhygienic images (if you know what I mean) are crammed with disturbing detail, dirt, and a sort of festering quality makes you want to scratch yourself. So yeah, it's effective. But I never really liked his pictures much for all that and have never understood the devoted acolytes (not just for his work, but anyone's to be honest - admiration is one thing, but blind fandom has never touched me). For all the detail, his pictures seemed somewhat … thin somehow. I prefer bolder, simpler compositions that show economy of line.
   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 05:21:14 PM
''While JB is just grumpy old man and can be rude at a times (well most of the times)he is a master of the art of world building and visuals.''

Agreed, I respect his talent but just wish he'd lighten up.

''But I am looking at his Inner circle minis on the blogs mostly I haven't seen anything off putting bvut I suspect that when you post non Blanschitsu stuff on prominently Blanschitsu group you are not that interesting to the rest of the group.''

You misunderstand me, he complains about blanchitsu imitators quite vocally, unless they are one of is close friends who do seem to get a pass, although i must add more than a couple have styles that I would argue are distinctive enough to be styles in theor own right even if they did start off as inspired by his work.

I say the groups are ''blanchitsu'' but they are supposed to be just dark interpretations of warhammer 40k, necromunda, age of sigmar and historical respectively...but Blanches presence has kind of skewed things somewhat if that makes sense, blanchitsu somehow both dominates but is also a sore topic that often gets threads locked/deleted.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 21, 2019, 06:40:35 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 05:21:14 PM

You misunderstand me, he complains about blanchitsu imitators quite vocally, unless they are one of is close friends who do seem to get a pass, although i must add more than a couple have styles that I would argue are distinctive enough to be styles in theor own right even if they did start off as inspired by his work.

Ahh, Yess he does.
But Ive seen it only when sombody straight up copies his work in the same medium. There was one harsh exchange I recall when some guy was making 2d artworks in his exact styel.
But Ive never saw this in miniatures and I saw him complementing some totaly random dudes with cool styling and over the top detail work.

Quote from: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 05:21:14 PM
I say the groups are ''blanchitsu'' but they are supposed to be just dark interpretations of warhammer 40k, necromunda, age of sigmar and historical respectively...but Blanches presence has kind of skewed things somewhat if that makes sense, blanchitsu somehow both dominates but is also a sore topic that often gets threads locked/deleted.

Again I havent felt it but maybe I am not that deep in those discussions. I am there mainly for the pictures :P
These days I delete about 50% of my post before posting it.. lol o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 21, 2019, 07:48:40 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 21, 2019, 12:34:58 PM
Oof, that cities of sigmar book's going to be pricey, I can feel it.
I'd say $40-$60, more if one's daft enough to buy the limited edition version - in a year or two it'll be replaced, like Blades of khorne for a 3rd time. >:(

https://spruesandbrews.com/2019/07/20/battletome-cities-of-sigmar/ (https://spruesandbrews.com/2019/07/20/battletome-cities-of-sigmar/)

Quote
This Battletome combines the Freeguild, Duardin and Wanderers into a book that covers the 8 cities of Sigmar, each allowing different command abilities and unit combinations! Ben Johnson mentioned to us it is possible to do a Steamtank army!! More news as we get it!

I don't know who Ben Johnson is and probably don't care, but an all Steamtank army... :o

Reminds of when I fielded 6 Bull Rhinoxen in a friendly game... ;)

Might make up for getting spat on for using square bases... >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 08:36:21 PM
''But Ive seen it only when sombody straight up copies his work in the same medium.''

He does but his friends get a seeming pass.


''There was one harsh exchange I recall when some guy was making 2d artworks in his exact styel.''

That one I get or the tutorial videos on youtube as they were monetised..but then he complains about people wanting to paint their miniatures like him, forgetting that they are free to and it probably keeps him in a job as GW seems to be moving away from his style to an extent. He freely admits to having his work be heavily influenced by others but treats the same happening to him as an annoyance and incomprehensible

I get he feels like it is his style but he has done turials in the past and quite possibly the bulk of what makes up his style actually belongs to GW..

''I saw him complementing some totaly random dudes with cool styling and over the top detail work.''

I have too but it seems to be much rarer than his friend group who also as they are also admins seem to dominate the groups.

''Again I havent felt it but maybe I am not that deep in those discussions. I am there mainly for the pictures :P''

Smart man, I look at the pics and ignore the discussion which seems to consist mostly of Blanche-worship, part break downs and complaints.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on July 21, 2019, 08:37:40 PM
Seriously? We're complaining about what non-member private individuals post on Facebook now?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 09:01:12 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on July 21, 2019, 08:37:40 PM
Seriously? We're complaining about what non-member private individuals post on Facebook now?

Why not?

This is the designated gw dump thread, and it started off with me pointing out how the facebook groups have essentially lost their utility, its as legit a topic as anything else GW related, sure they are private individuals but a good few see themselves as part of an art 'movement' and I have seen it start to filter into non-facebook/blogs. -  a perfectly legit topic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on July 21, 2019, 09:07:14 PM
The discussion didn't organically evolve, you swerved immediately into criticising someone who isn't here to defend themselves.

I'm not going to get into it, but for anyone else reading this I'd like to say I don't recognise the scenario as painted by Kommando_J.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 09:25:56 PM
''The discussion didn't organically evolve, you swerved immediately into criticising someone who isn't here to defend themselves.''

Yes I I fully admitted that before, it started off as a friendly warning and became a bit of an unburdening, and yes while it didn't evolve organically, it doesn't need to, people can chime in to this thread with whatever they want as long as it is GW related.

I'd be happy to take it up with him, but I doubt it would change anything, all of the pages he uses are heavily moderated by his friends, and last time somebody tried they got banned and maligned and I don't fancy the same as I quite like his work.

I would say however, that my main focus is on how cultish the various facebook GW pages have become (not just the Blanche dominated ones) while I love being able to talk to the developers it seems very one sided in that you can't argue (even respectfully) on things without getting dog-piled.


''but for anyone else reading this I'd like to say I don't recognise the scenario as painted by Kommando_J.''

Given how moderated the pages are and how quick this type of thing is deleted, even a semi-serious browser could actually miss it, but I get you are saying this to signal your disagreement.

I will say in case people think this is some character assassination, it isn't.

I immensely respect the man and his skills, I just don't like his own personal attitude towards some things and some of his fans, and feel that it definitely alters the facebook GW landscape and not always for the better (but mostly for the better).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 21, 2019, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 02:43:47 PM

(SMALL RANT INCOMING)

I have so many things to say in response, but I'll try to be brief  :) Maybe I'll come across as part of the problem, which would actually maybe help me understand what you say a bit more.

First up, as someone who has now spent more than half their life in punk scenes around the world, I certainly hear you about being fed up of cliques - oh boy, do I hear you. It is one reason I could never stomach the Oldhammer thing even though there are loads of good people in it and I like the miniatures. The whole declaration and whatnot was a bit too "I'm more punk than you" nonsense. And I agree that some of the Inq28 crowd can get that way.

But I wouldn't blame JB or PDH or the Ironsleet boys (I assume that is what you mean by the inner circle). JB is an old man who has more than paid his dues and just wants to enjoy his hobby and his art. All those guys connected because they saw what they were trying to do in what each other was doing. I don't know if I'd say they big up each other - more that they're constantly pushing each other in what they aim to do with the hobby. Just look at the way each Ironsleet project is even more time-consuming and thorough than the last. JB and co use social media because that is how they connect with other like-minded souls. If you ever visit Nicolas Grillet's amazing gallery, you can still see the message where JB gets in touch - it is kinda sweet.

Are you a fan of the band Tool by any chance? If not, ignore the next bit, it won't make sense. But if so, I think JB is rude for the same reason Maynard is a grumpy old fucker: he just wants to enjoy making his art and stop having people putting him on a pedestal (with inevitably others then coming along trying to knock him off it).

So what I'm trying to say is that the problem might not be the people who are pushing themselves and posting stuff to inspire their friends and anyone else who wants to take it up, but the folk who make it out to be any more than that. 

We all have our thing, right? This forum generally has a strong distaste for power gaming and half-assed scenery, sometimes to the point of mockery and disdain of the contrary opinion. JB and co. have this "mood is king" thing to how they approach their projects. But I've never seen them claim that that is what the hobby should be, or what grimdark is, or whatever (maybe I've not looked closely, tho). If other people want to put them on that pedestal, I imagine that is annoying.  :)

So yeah, like Andrew I guess I don't recognise the scenario here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on July 21, 2019, 09:40:54 PM
@Kommando_J: GW thread or not, when has this ever been the forum to criticise individuals?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 09:58:51 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 21, 2019, 09:39:16 PM
I have so many things to say in response, but I'll try to be brief  :) Maybe I'll come across as part of the problem, which would actually maybe help me understand what you say a bit more.

First up, as someone who has now spent more than half their life in punk scenes around the world, I certainly hear you about being fed up of cliques - oh boy, do I hear you. It is one reason I could never stomach the Oldhammer thing even though there are loads of good people in it and I like the miniatures. The whole declaration and whatnot was a bit too "I'm more punk than you" nonsense. And I agree that some of the Inq28 crowd can get that way.

But I wouldn't blame JB or PDH or the Ironsleet boys (I assume that is what you mean by the inner circle). JB is an old man who has more than paid his dues and just wants to enjoy his hobby and his art. All those guys connected because they saw what they were trying to do in what each other was doing. I don't know if I'd say they big up each other - more that they're constantly pushing each other in what they aim to do with the hobby. Just look at the way each Ironsleet project is even more time-consuming and thorough than the last. JB and co use social media because that is how they connect with other like-minded souls. If you ever visit Nicolas Grillet's amazing gallery, you can still see the message where JB gets in touch - it is kinda sweet.

Are you a fan of the band Tool by any chance? If not, ignore the next bit, it won't make sense. But if so, I think JB is rude for the same reason Maynard is a grumpy old fucker: he just wants to enjoy making his art and stop having people putting him on a pedestal (with inevitably others then coming along trying to knock him off it).

So what I'm trying to say is that the problem might not be the people who are pushing themselves and posting stuff to inspire their friends and anyone else who wants to take it up, but the folk who make it out to be any more than that. 

We all have our thing, right? This forum generally has a strong distaste for power gaming and half-assed scenery, sometimes to the point of mockery and disdain of the contrary opinion. JB and co. have this "mood is king" thing to how they approach their projects. But I've never seen them claim that that is what the hobby should be, or what grimdark is, or whatever (maybe I've not looked closely, tho). If other people want to put them on that pedestal, I imagine that is annoying.  :)

So yeah, like Andrew I guess I don't recognise the scenario here.

A thoughtful and appreciated response, I don't blame the 'inner circle'' themselves as they are all nice fellows that just happen to be friends with John, I don't even blame john for the clique element to the whole thing as he clearly doesn't like the fan boyishness either.

I guess I just don't like how the atmosphere has become so cultish and a lot of good work ends up drowned out.

My only real 'problem' with Blanche is I wish he'd cheer up or just not take things so badly, seeing him interact with his friends is indeed sweet and quite nice, reading how he talks to others though it just makes it seem ...painful for lack of a better word and as he is so hyped up his every utterance is liked and shared so its hard to avoid in a way.

I wish people would forget abut his approval and just enjoy themselves and that he in turn wouldn't get so ornery about other people and their arguing about ''what is and isn't blanchitsu'', at this stage of the game its gone far beyond his control and is off evolving in a dozen directions, better to just sit back and enjoy.

''@Kommando_J: GW thread or not, when has this ever been the forum to criticise individuals?''

It dies happen but I get your point, I only intended that to be a small vent lost in this monstrosity of a thread.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 21, 2019, 10:05:34 PM
And a thoughtful and appreciated response in return!

I wonder if JB regrets it being called Blanchitsu? It must matter to him that it is his name. Kinda like Marx's line: "I am not a Marxist".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 10:11:11 PM
''I wonder if JB regrets it being called Blanchitsu? It must matter to him that it is his name. Kinda like Marx's line: "I am not a Marxist".''

Now that you say that I would bet on it, he was especially pissed recently about the guy doing blanchitsu tutorials on youtube as he hates the misrepresentation.

I get the feeling of ownership of the style but given that he did it as a (presumably paid) column for years, I am struggling to see it at times - not to mention he has explicitly said that all of the 40k elements belong to GW, for private art pieces he sn;t even allowed a servo skull I think, despite those being his invention in the art.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 21, 2019, 10:21:09 PM
I do not share Kommando J point of view - IMHO its good that those guys opened their own (as they are admins) group to the public and I can see a lot f great miniatures..
ANd as a guest hthere I am not going to criticese that their community is represented the most

But he is expressing his dislike for this practice.
And you are expressing your displeasure with Kommando J having an strong opinion.
While I can see both merit and flaw of his comments I cant see  what your post add to the discussion apart from dissent. Its just provoking a flame.
Please lets all end this topic, and go on for discussion of GW stuff and not personal comments about other members of LA.

Pax gentleman. And lets talk about some great miniatures not other members.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on July 21, 2019, 10:29:21 PM
Quote from: AWu on July 21, 2019, 10:21:09 PM
I do not share Kommando J point of view - IMHO its good that those guys opened their own (as they are admins) group to the public and I can see a lot f great miniatures..
ANd as a guest hthere I am not going to criticese that their community is represented the most

But he is expressing his dislike for this practice.
And you are expressing your displeasure with Kommando J having an strong opinion.
While I can see both merit and flaw of his comments I cant see  what your post add to the discussion apart from dissent. Its just provoking a flame.
Please lets all end this topic, and go on for discussion of GW stuff and not personal comments about other members of LA.

Pax gentleman. And lets talk about some great miniatures not other members.

I'm lost. Who's criticising Kommando_J for strong opinions and who's making personal comments about other members of LAF?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on July 21, 2019, 10:37:47 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 10:11:11 PM
This is the designated gw dump thread,

Then you'd be more than a bit wrong.

Quote
the GW thread isn’t a bin for complaints but a hiving off of GW discussion, whether it be positive or negative.

Quote
the GW thread is not a rant thread, but may appear so since any unfocused discussion (i.e. not properly hobby-related) has a very high probability of going there, just because the company tends to polarise the community to such an extent.

I find it all a bit odd. And I might invoke Capt.Blood here a bit, but I honestly don't get why some folk really enjoy instigating negativity so much.

Nothing wrong with not liking the style or composition of a miniature or even the lack of technical ability displayed in the sculpt itself. I get all of that.

But the discussion here has gotten very specific about an individual. It's not even about their role within GW and appears to be pointing out they don't like imitators as if that is enough of a reason to suggest they are a grumpy old so and so.

To say that this line of discussion comes across as a bit cowardly and pathetic is an understatement.

I'd rather it kept on topic and the term 'dump' didn't literally appear to mean you thought you could soil it as you felt fit to because no where else on the forum allows it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on July 21, 2019, 10:41:35 PM
 I've not spoken to Jon Blanche in nigh on thirty years.(Maggie insisted I go tip sand out me boots Some where cold and crappie.Instead of painting figures.) I  left the old studio having Been there a month .
So couldn't add anything either way. Other than drunken nights in Rock City.Or being bored out of my skull staying in the company house in Bullwell.Or the lectures for staying out all night. ::)

Mind you I didn't recognize Brian May when he came down.Just another long haired bloke rolling dice. lol
So I'll change the subject because I probably missed it (and there's no way I'm trawling through pages on phone just to check .lifes too short ;D )

Is this thread going to be re branded 'Warhammer' as well or are we defiantly stuck in our ways?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on July 21, 2019, 10:44:20 PM
Worrhamuh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 11:02:51 PM
''It's not even about their role within GW and appears to be pointing out they don't like imitators as if that is enough of a reason to suggest they are a grumpy old so and so.''

It was more than just that if you had actually read through my replies.

''To say that this line of discussion comes across as a bit cowardly and pathetic is an understatement.''

'First off, no need for the attacks, second i'd ask you actually read my replies, its not as simple as you boil it down to, if it was as simple an issue as you make it out to be i'd have no porblems.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on July 21, 2019, 11:08:56 PM
Haha, indeed Mark.
I may have inadvertently derailed this thread...by my comment about not doing Facebook.
I have found most groups,whether on the internet, physical clubs,pop culture groupings et cetera ,always end up the same,there are the cool ones,the ones with a sense of entitlement, the naysayers ,and the downright odd( that would be me). I think a lot of has to do with pride and insecurities; now I have learnt over my 54 years that the best thing is to be nice,and if other people are less than nice move along,life is too short.Even here on the LAF, if discussions get too fraught,move away, don't add to your or others pain,most of us are just middle aged chaps trying to get along,have a bit of social interaction  and some positive communication with others of a similar inclination. We are all the same and all a little different, in idipsum. And you know what? It just doesn't matter.

Now back to GW.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 21, 2019, 11:13:23 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on July 20, 2019, 03:50:13 PM
Correct, it's called "Mare Solum". There's a Facebook group for it. I think Jimbibbly has made some stuff for it.

Here it is and everything that gets posted on FB gets posted in this thread.

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=107994.msg1349184#msg1349184 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=107994.msg1349184#msg1349184)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 11:23:17 PM
The mare solum one I actually wasn't too bothered started off as a private thing, its theirs after all, they all freely shared the stuff on their fab blogs.

I would like to make one correction to AWu

- the main goups grew out of the in28 group which started off as public - an extension of the culture that developed first independently with the release of inquisotr and the old army lists, then kind of solidified in the ammobunker forum, to say that anyone has ownership over inq28 as a whole  is incorrect in my own opinion.

Also yes, back to warhammer, I recently played my first ever proper game of age of sigmar and have become somewhat a convert! So thanks to my buddy Nick for inviting me round saturday and showing me how to play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 21, 2019, 11:29:27 PM
For the record he played as legion of nagash against my (his) kharadron overlords, he tarpitted me and although I came close to wiping him out (after all but kill one unit of skeletons several fucking times) the turn limit kicked in and we called it a draw!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 21, 2019, 11:36:12 PM
Quote from: Blackwolf on July 21, 2019, 11:08:56 PM

I have found most groups,whether on the internet, physical clubs,pop culture groupings et cetera ,always end up the same,there are the cool ones,the ones with a sense of entitlement, the naysayers ,and the downright odd( that would be me). I think a lot of has to do with pride and insecurities;

Heh
Blackwolf
You accidental described phenomenon known as an Iron law of oligarchy  lol

Ok, work related fun aside
Lets go back to GW :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on July 21, 2019, 11:54:04 PM
Haha, indeed. Just looked it up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 22, 2019, 02:12:55 AM
Quote from: AWu on July 21, 2019, 11:36:12 PM
Heh
Blackwolf
You accidental described phenomenon known as an Iron law of oligarchy  lol

Ok, work related fun aside
Lets go back to GW :)

Is their a 'quietly observes from the background' category?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on July 22, 2019, 11:04:02 PM
Campaign rules for Warcry. (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/22/warcry-preview-campaigns/) It sounds interesting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 22, 2019, 11:18:15 PM
Sisters Repentia images dropped, gotta say I love 'em.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/SoBBulletinRepentia-Jul22-Repentia3-he7i.jpg)

Still haven't painted my metal ones :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 22, 2019, 11:22:28 PM
Nice sculpts, hoping for a plastic priest kit when it all comes out, personally.

Has anyone here tired the underworlds game? Is it fun? I tired asking my friends but all got spooked when I mentioned the card element.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 23, 2019, 12:30:31 AM
I love them, being less sexualized do them a lot. Previous models were more slaaneshy kinky than repenty :P

Warcry review - quite extensive. To be honest it paints full picture of the game
https://youtu.be/SFm1q-m4HeM

They did battle reports too.
Its looks to be very fun and surprisingly deep little skirmish.
But campaign are not the deep or level of Munda or Heimm its totally different game and takeo n campaign is narrative not rpg progression styled but from what I see it delivers as a game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 23, 2019, 03:59:33 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on July 21, 2019, 07:18:32 AM
Base sizes differentiate unit types in Warcry.
As for the model limits, they just want/force you to use multiples of a box. 1 in 8 minis represents a Thrallmaster, 1 in 8 a Luminate, 6 out of 8 "others".
Do you have the rulebook? Are these mandatory base sizes? I missed mention of 28mm bases, though I cannot differentiate the 3mm difference in the photo. It's not like Citadel's past foray into 17mm round bases or 20mm ones in WotC's Chainmail. I can think of better ways of noting differences between model types than using another base size - didn't need it in Mordheim. Does the Luminate and 3 Mirrorblades or 3 Mindbound end up on the 28s?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 23, 2019, 04:05:53 AM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on July 21, 2019, 09:47:54 AM
Thrallmaster is a character ( don't know his background ) but characters in many rules systems come on a larger base. In AoS, Chaos Marauders ( Bloodreavers they're now called? ) come on 25mm whilst Chaos Warriors ( no idea what they're called these days ) on 32mm. I don't see that as strange. Might look even better  ;). Fun thing is, I see they use next to 25mm bases also 28mm bases in this gang.
The battle scroll I read that out of every 8 models 1 must be a Thrallmaster and 1 must be a Luminate. So that leaves you with 6 other warriors per box of 8. You want 2 boxes? Then you have 2 Thrallmasters, 2 Luminates and 14 other warriors. And so on...
Chaos Marauders with marks still exist and Bloodreavers are a type of Khorne themed Marauder on 32mm bases, but I prefer 'em on 25s, as they're not Chaos Warriors. The battle scroll is another example of AoS verboseness...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 23, 2019, 06:25:41 AM
Guerrilla Miniature Games did an Unboxing & How to Play...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFm1q-m4HeM

As well as a Let's Talk on the game...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhW-EcuW3Bs

Not exactly a glowing review.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on July 23, 2019, 07:43:16 AM
Quote from: AWu on July 23, 2019, 12:30:31 AM
I love them, being less sexualized do them a lot. Previous models were more slaaneshy kinky than repenty :P


I never saw the older miniatures as kinky, just a bunch of warrior women in scraps of armour, rags and chains....wait...hang on...  :o
Joking aside, I never got a Slaaneshy feel to them, in fact I felt they fit in quite nicely with the grim dark setting.

In regards to the new sculpts, I have mixed feelings. On one hand I like how they kind of resemble the artwork from the Witch Hunters codex, with the piercings in the skin, brands and mouths sewn shut. But on the other hand, they seem a bit to muscular out of armour compared to the 5 new Sisters in armour we have had in the past 3 years.
Also not a fan of the interface plugs, mostly because they have never been mentioned/featured before as far as I know (admittedly my lore knowledge is limited).
Would prefer a more tattered look to them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on July 23, 2019, 11:39:29 AM
I'll wait till I see them in the flesh so to speak.
can't stand these rubbish CAD pics.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 23, 2019, 09:54:52 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on July 23, 2019, 07:43:16 AM
...not a fan of the interface plugs, mostly because they have never been mentioned/featured before as far as I know (admittedly my lore knowledge is limited).
Agreed... As far as I know, only the Astartes were ever equiped with the black carapace. Sisters and inquisitors were equiped with pressure activated armour, which would always be a fraction of a second slower than the 'true' power armour of space marines...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 23, 2019, 09:59:15 PM
Sometimes I think GW could do with someone who checks over fluff to present a clear standard. For the Abaddon mini the designer was talking in White Dwarf about how he gave the mini a Black Carapace under his armour...but the Black Carapace goes under the skin. GW fluff is all over the place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 23, 2019, 09:59:22 PM
I played Warcry

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67373598_10157386324833236_443472347022753792_o.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQkWQTSuGim7E1kkK3qBacD5-D3EklCHyOLIaT5Ij2uwyrkZF8aH6C_lzTqHvL1T3ATNi9MPVj_TBG9uBwMgx7YE&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=9bd2b30e9aaece8e03c3204f8b4b5d3a&oe=5DB0940D)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67146903_10157386325163236_1209182050016296960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQmr05Ba7XZMBWzwFpjzMYIe9DORGF2TQHo-5leBCQq_kHe7jXiJYuK6aymwwD7plBvQm2FPjewMJJGi5bK2bAo0&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=b23bea76ae63681cb885f415b0b6ca73&oe=5DB1DC07)

Its quite cool and very tactical game. Scenarios are constructed in a way that you have to play scenario and some bands could be handicapped.

I played Untamed beasts and had to decide which of my models carries a treasure chest. My opponent had to kill him and take the treasure. But I had to nominate a model at the start of 2 nd turn when reinforcements arrived and the scenario had only 3 turns.
So to catch potential campy treasure keeper my opponents would have to plan accordingly and wait. He decided to smash my starting guys and had very small chance to get the treasure guy. Anyway again he went for carnage and killed my leader unnecessarily and I won easily.
Its hard to not want to kill everybody with bunch of bloodthirsty chaos cultists :P

Ive killed his leader and 3 lesser guys and grunt and i lost my beast herder leader and some grunts.
Most definitely MVP was big wildcat thingy with 8 of movement and ability to be forced by beastmaster for and extra attack and survived the game.

Overall great game. I loved it. And preordered a copy.
Just don't expect to play deep campaign with it.
It will be perfect for pick up games though (and probably tournaments and such which interest me less).

Its less time consuming and tough decision game as Underworlds but its much easier to get into and dont need great investment in cards ( you only need your model cards and your faction and shared activated abilities so one box of a miniatures and you are playing the game.

If I understand it correctly there is one building miniatures decision in the starter box. You can built Iron golem standard bearer with an iron gong or Preceptor (?) with huge hammer.
I cant say anything about the terrain as we used pre painted Garden of Morr shop had on hand.


The cards for creating the missions can have big impact or almost non existent. We had a card that asked for drafting another pair of cards and using both from which one was +1 to movement for everyone (meh) but the second one gave the both bands extra die for activation rolls (we rolled 7 dice each turn - and this was huge - my opponent managed to use pair of quadruple results in one turn- that would let him win the scenario most probably but he went for max carnage of Ogre model.)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on July 23, 2019, 10:49:59 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on July 22, 2019, 11:22:28 PM
Nice sculpts, hoping for a plastic priest kit when it all comes out, personally.

Has anyone here tired the underworlds game? Is it fun? I tired asking my friends but all got spooked when I mentioned the card element.

Yeah.

It's an out of the box game in that you just use the minis as is. The CCG bit is meh. It's a bit like loot crating. Certain cards come in certain sets so if you want to get the best cards you buy the sets and try and sell the stuff off that you don't want... As soon as I realised that's how it worked I flogged my set. It's a nice enough game but super tournament aimed. If you like more narrative driven games this isn't it. If you can find relaxed folk to play games against it's ok. But if they have better cards than you it becomes a bit of a difficult game to compete in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 23, 2019, 11:13:58 PM
I love the game and bought everything (sans extra colored dice for each faction)

But its quite hard game to pick up and get into to be honest. To take full from it you need to have most of the cards or print proxies.
I have every team released for it and I painted up more I ever played (and I play this game often -just ever with 8 bands out of 16 i have and often with 3-4 - I bought most bands without intent of playing them just for cards)

The minis are great and present nice hobby opportunity. I like to paint my models in small bands (so tend to skirmishes these days) and this is great game with really tough decisions just not too good game for casual players IMHO.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on July 24, 2019, 12:29:50 AM
Yeah. It's a boardgame with CCG elements. I've just seen they ban cards now too. So very much CCG element.

It's not that complex to pick up. It's just not aimed at any form of narrative.

It's nice enough. No complaints on the mini's. Some top mini's amongst the range.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 24, 2019, 07:44:16 AM
I have been watching some Warcry battle reports of YouTube and their Double, Triple & Quad mechanic (to activate special abilities) puts me very much in mind of SAGA.

It seems that players set up terrain as dictated by cards drawn from a deck. The only problem with this is that the boards seem to be very light on terrain with relatively large areas with no terrain so both of the games I've seen so far ended up being a punch up in the centre. I assume that each new terrain set will include more cards and presumably there is nothing to stop you from adding more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 24, 2019, 10:15:53 AM
The punch up in the centre could be a thing but it depends on the deployment cards.
In my game we had smal mele in the center and another melee in the middle side where guy with the treasure was deploying.

I had doubts about the terrain density but the game is constructed in such way and with so few models in mind  it works Ok.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 24, 2019, 10:52:48 AM
Thanks AWu. Do you think the lack of customisation limits the gameplay or could make it repetitive?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 24, 2019, 12:07:24 PM
IMHO it could but not too fast.

They were bragging about 30 millions of combinations of cards during creation of battlefields but lets be honest - those options are quite cosmetic sometimes.

Most important thing is that you have to split your forces between 3 detachments Dagger, shield and hammer (each one need at least 1 model and no more than 1/3 or 50% and biggest one (shield?) need minimum 33%)
But you dont know how they will deploy and If they will deploy turn one or turn 2+ from reserves - thisis dictated by card drawn after splinting.
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60220299012_ENGWCBattleplanCards02.jpg)
You can see hammer, dagger and shield icons and deployment zones. They are symetrical on all cards I saw. Here - Dagger and Hammer deploy in second turn.
This is major factor creating friction and fog of war on the battlefield and its the tool for making games different.

Second factor is roll for initiative/abilities - they can change course of the game allowing extra attacks, more devastating attacks, extra movement and even one heals - but its hardly useful IMHO in such low turn games. Those again are quite few and will be repetitive but combination of dice rolls should make game unpredictable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 24, 2019, 12:15:45 PM
Cheers. The low turn count and random deployment makes me wonder if you could be stuffed before a game starts if you are unlucky in the draw.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 24, 2019, 12:24:14 PM
Not a fan of (low) turn count games but I understand why they do it; the pressure builds up from the first model you move, every move counts and it makes you really think what to do and when, keeping in mind the scenario demands in order to win.
And if I really don't like the game, at least got myself some great models and terrain  lol.
Underworlds I buy for the models, like the game but I don't like the hours of planning what cards to use, which complement what and when.. Give me and my opponent a random stack of cards and then let's see whom plays them out the best, that's more my type of game. Making the best of a bad situation or, rather the stuff the old hired captains had to deal with: This is our city, these are the troops at your disposal and over there is the enemy. Good luck defending it, if you fail and not get killed we execute you ourselves  :D.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on July 24, 2019, 08:37:22 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 24, 2019, 12:15:45 PM
Cheers. The low turn count and random deployment makes me wonder if you could be stuffed before a game starts if you are unlucky in the draw.

My oponent was, but that forces you to play for scenario and not for maximal kills (well unless they are the objective)


Quote from: Duncan McDane on July 24, 2019, 12:24:14 PM
Not a fan of (low) turn count games but I understand why they do it; the pressure builds up from the first model you move, every move counts and it makes you really think what to do and when, keeping in mind the scenario demands in order to win.
And if I really don't like the game, at least got myself some great models and terrain  lol.
Underworlds I buy for the models, like the game but I don't like the hours of planning what cards to use, which complement what and when.. Give me and my opponent a random stack of cards and then let's see whom plays them out the best, that's more my type of game. Making the best of a bad situation or, rather the stuff the old hired captains had to deal with: This is our city, these are the troops at your disposal and over there is the enemy. Good luck defending it, if you fail and not get killed we execute you ourselves  :D.

I was not to keen on low turn count but as I said I love underworlds and they make me warm to the idea.
There is no time for build up, waiting till the best time and such, just brutal fight for victory from the first turn...
Thet work better in such game as it takes annoying strategies of not interacting with opponent less destructive...

But I will have to persuade myself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on July 25, 2019, 06:28:44 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on July 23, 2019, 10:49:59 PM
Yeah.

It's an out of the box game in that you just use the minis as is. The CCG bit is meh. It's a bit like loot crating. Certain cards come in certain sets so if you want to get the best cards you buy the sets and try and sell the stuff off that you don't want... As soon as I realised that's how it worked I flogged my set. It's a nice enough game but super tournament aimed. If you like more narrative driven games this isn't it. If you can find relaxed folk to play games against it's ok. But if they have better cards than you it becomes a bit of a difficult game to compete in.

Might just give it a pass then, my buds got sick of the whole competitive mtg scene and we all like narrative stuff better. Thankfully you can guy the minis cheaper, sans cards.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on July 25, 2019, 06:34:08 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on July 25, 2019, 06:28:44 PM
Might just give it a pass then, my buds got sick of the whole competitive mtg scene and we all like narrative stuff better. Thankfully you can guy the minis cheaper, sans cards.

I agree.
I have played a few times but it is basically a boargame, nothing more than that.

There are some nice figures available for it and I have picked up a few on ebay without cards for reasonable prices.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 25, 2019, 10:49:01 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on July 23, 2019, 07:43:16 AM
Also not a fan of the interface plugs, mostly because they have never been mentioned/featured before as far as I know (admittedly my lore knowledge is limited).

Quote from: Daeothar on July 23, 2019, 09:54:52 PM
Agreed... As far as I know, only the Astartes were ever equiped with the black carapace. Sisters and inquisitors were equiped with pressure activated armour, which would always be a fraction of a second slower than the 'true' power armour of space marines...

That's been my understanding too. Maybe the sister's plugs are for/from interfacing with a Penitent Engine since she's Repentia?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 26, 2019, 09:21:45 AM
Quote from: FionaWhite on July 25, 2019, 10:49:01 PM
That's been my understanding too. Maybe the sister's plugs are for/from interfacing with a Penitent Engine since she's Repentia?
The article states it is to wear power armour. It is new background, and although e.g. the previous Repentia sculpts did not have them, I don't think the new lore so much replaces as expands existing conventions - it simply was never explained how or to what extent the power armour functioned before. As stated below in the blurb from Warhammer Community, the plugs are to make the armour more practical in use, but it is in no way as advanced or far-reaching as full black carapace.
Quote
In this design, you can clearly see the exposed plug ports that would normally enable a Battle Sister’s muscles to work in tandem with the enhanced fibre bundle network within her power armour. The power armour worn by the Adepta Sororitas (and other agents of the Imperium, such as Inquisitors) doesn’t require the full interface of an Adeptus Astartes black carapace.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on July 27, 2019, 08:56:28 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on July 26, 2019, 09:21:45 AM
The article states it is to wear power armour. It is new background, and although e.g. the previous Repentia sculpts did not have them, I don't think the new lore so much replaces as expands existing conventions - it simply was never explained how or to what extent the power armour functioned before. As stated below in the blurb from Warhammer Community, the plugs are to make the armour more practical in use, but it is in no way as advanced or far-reaching as full black carapace.

Almost sounds like there'd been some general improvements in the tech but we all know that's heresy.  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 27, 2019, 09:32:26 PM
There's about 30 pages of argument about the powered armor interface plugs on the Dakka forum, I'm going to respectfully suggest we not going down that hole too far and accepting that GW changes things up from time to time :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 27, 2019, 10:12:38 PM
Have they ever explained how Terminators wear their armour without dislocating both shoulders and both hips?
(Not in dire need of an answer, but it is a genuine question. Last time I read the terminator fluff (Advanced Space Crusade, never managed to actually play a game of that come to think of it) there was a full human being in the suit unlike, say, dreadnoughts).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on July 27, 2019, 10:24:27 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 27, 2019, 10:12:38 PM
Have they ever explained how Terminators wear their armour without dislocating both shoulders and both hips?

Always took it for granted it was like the fan pic below. but honestly who knows.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1e/9c/98/1e9c98b1e0e37c153deedcc168a13155.jpg)

Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 27, 2019, 10:12:38 PM
Last time I read the terminator fluff  (Advanced Space Crusade, never managed to actually play a game of that come to think of it) there was a full human being in the suit unlike, say, dreadnoughts).

Hehe your well up too date on the fluff then ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 28, 2019, 06:38:25 AM
In the RT days you did get some people wearing suits of Dreadnought armour, not just those gravely injured in battle. I guess GW decided that wasn't quite Grim Dark enough and changed it to beaten up, half-dead marines only.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 28, 2019, 10:48:57 AM
Quote from: Chico on July 27, 2019, 10:24:27 PM
Hehe your well up too date on the fluff then ;)

Ha, yeah once I got hooked on Confrontation and the hive I lost interest in 40K the game, found the humble untrained imperial denizen way more interesting than the actual armies in that universe. That termie picture works ok sideways on, but when you look at the old sculpts front-on, it doesn't work nearly so well - human limbs don't really fit in those suits without dislocation/detachment!

Lost Egg: hehe, yes I imagine that was the thought process. While GW's efforts to grimdark things up are often silly, the walking sarcophagus thing actually suits even the RT dreadnought sculpts in my humble opinion.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on July 28, 2019, 11:20:13 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 28, 2019, 10:48:57 AM
That termie picture works ok sideways on, but when you look at the old sculpts front-on, it doesn't work nearly so well - human limbs don't really fit in those suits without dislocation/detachment!


I think it's a combination of both horrible old sculpts combined with the fact it's not humans inside rather large framed superhumans.  o_o o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 28, 2019, 11:50:06 AM
Yeah...sometimes I wonder exactly when they became superhuman freaks rather than just pumped gene enhanced humans.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 28, 2019, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 28, 2019, 11:50:06 AM
Yeah...sometimes I wonder exactly when they became superhuman freaks rather than just pumped gene enhanced humans.

Erm' sometime in the 1990s I think lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 28, 2019, 02:43:29 PM
:D I still kinda think of them more like Sardukar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 28, 2019, 04:03:29 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 28, 2019, 02:43:29 PM
:D I still kinda think of them more like Sardukar.
That picture sequence in the RT rulebook of the feral world warrior being recruited into the marines? Loved that idea of them. Ah, nostalgia.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 28, 2019, 04:23:29 PM
Ironically the original space marines in the original RT rulebook, sounded a lot like the ret-conned Thunder Warriors in present day fluff. Barely controlled killers on a very short leash.

And I still get a kick out of Lord Lucan being in charge of the space wolves lol, at least we now know where he ended up????? :o

M`mm may use this as a basis for my true-scale "Not-Primaris" marines when I do them.......
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 28, 2019, 06:13:03 PM
I think thats what appealed...they kinda blurred the lines between good and evil. I think the monastic vibe never really worked for me, I much prefer my marines to be brutal sadistic killers :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 28, 2019, 06:40:07 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 28, 2019, 06:13:03 PM
I think thats what appealed...they kinda blurred the lines between good and evil. I think the monastic vibe never really worked for me, I much prefer my marines to be brutal sadistic killers :D

Yeah a bit like Khan Noomien Sing and the other Eugenic super persons from Star Trek!

Advanced abilities leads to enhanced ambitions and aggression >:( ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 28, 2019, 07:16:12 PM
Hence how comes so many fell to Chaos in the heresy. But no...its all about Daddy issues now  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on July 28, 2019, 10:57:18 PM
This question came up on a facebook group with GW employees on it some time ago now. Supposedly the Space Marine fluff has always been super human freaks - that was what the gene enhancements did.

And they never stopped being recruited from worlds where warriors were born from the conditions they grew up in. Caliban was such a world before it got torn apart and reduced to a meteorite.

Then the monastic bit. I think they just pushed the crusading knights thing a bit more in both directions. As in, they took both the monastic bit some were and the rampaging homicidal butchers others were and put them together.

So whilst on their ships and between battles they are monk like. When in battle they unleash hell and have no limits to the destruction they will reek upon their enemies.

Talking of how to they fit in suits of armour.

The old rogue trader marines. I mean, I only caught the tail end of those in the early 90's. And I have little nostalgic fondness for them. But how in gods name was a super human anything meant to fit in that armour? ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 29, 2019, 08:24:59 AM
Remaining three Warcry warbands (crows, snakes, face-belts) up for pre-order next week. That was pretty fast!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 29, 2019, 08:35:56 AM
I guess they really really didn't want to repeat the Necromunda schedule :D I think its great that they are releasing them so soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on July 29, 2019, 11:04:17 AM
Not sure if it wouldn't have been better to release all chaos bands at once, but glad to see them out shortly after.

Speaking of the Necromunda release schedule, not sure this looks very promising. Another hardcover book so soon (is it? It feels soon) after the last one and a bucketload of new cards that one imagines will be out of production before too long. Underdog cards do look like a good idea however (whether they're implemented remotely well remains to be seen...).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on July 29, 2019, 12:51:17 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on July 29, 2019, 08:24:59 AM
Remaining three Warcry warbands (crows, snakes, face-belts) up for pre-order next week. That was pretty fast!

Seems like this is just another 6-months release, 12 months-after support game  :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 29, 2019, 03:20:26 PM
That does seem to be GWs mo for games now...well apart from 40k, AoS and maybe LOTRs. There are some that forecast GW wants to push only the new and shiny and that eventually all minis will have a limited shelf life before they are replaced by the new-new and shiny. I'm not sure the customer base will fully support that though...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 29, 2019, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on July 29, 2019, 12:51:17 PM
Seems like this is just another 6-months release, 12 months-after support game  :-I
I dunno, that doesn't seem to be true of Necromunda, there is still a bit more to come for that (if we get everything we're told we're getting). And ditto Bloodbowl and Underworlds/Shadespire/Whatever it is called.

The short-life games don't seem to have as much work put into them as Warcry (e.g. very few if any new miniatures for Killteam). To me it feels more like Necro and Underworlds. Personally, I'm only in it for the minis so not bothered either way, but hopefully there is some reason for optimism about its longevity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on July 29, 2019, 06:19:57 PM
Necromunda - not really greatly different to when it was originally released, just people knew what was coming so got demanding about it and didn't like waiting for the gang they wanted to pick up again.

When it was released, the new specialist games department was made up of two people. Now it has over a dozen.

The new GW management, it would seem, have taken a good look at the market and what games are doing well. Smaller scale skirmish games and a boom in boardgames looks like the areas that have caught their eye and since refusing to renew licences on some of their IP items with FFG they have launched a few more of their own smaller scale skirmish games and boardgame type games.

They have been fairly well supported. Two new books this year for Necromunda. Ambots and soon Arbitrators to be released along with special characters. Rather happy with it all myself tbh.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 30, 2019, 03:14:50 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 29, 2019, 03:20:26 PM
That does seem to be GWs mo for games now...well apart from 40k, AoS and maybe LOTRs. There are some that forecast GW wants to push only the new and shiny and that eventually all minis will have a limited shelf life before they are replaced by the new-new and shiny. I'm not sure the customer base will fully support that though...
Looking forward to the release of biodegradable plastic figures...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 01, 2019, 07:28:38 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 28, 2019, 06:38:25 AM
In the RT days you did get some people wearing suits of Dreadnought armour, not just those gravely injured in battle. I guess GW decided that wasn't quite Grim Dark enough and changed it to beaten up, half-dead marines only.

Dreadnaught armour was different, I believe, to dreadnaughts. For starters, the old dreadnaughts would have struggled to fit a living person in them at all.

I believe dreadnought armour was a precursor name for terminator suits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 01, 2019, 08:17:50 AM
Terminators were out then too though it was originally known as Terminator Dreadnought armour. None of the RT vehicles, nor many since, have ever been the right size...this is I think a concession for practicalities sake both for keeping the cost down as well as making sure not to fill up the gaming table.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 01, 2019, 09:06:34 AM
Lost Egg's memory is better than McFonz's. In the early days dreadnoughts were 'the ultimate in personal armour', though some wearers would go insane from being cooped up in them, and others would go rogue, forming roaming bands of Dreadnought Mercenaries hiring out to the highest bidder. See White Dwarf 100.

Terminator armour was Tactical Dreadnought Armour - smaller and more mobile, so could be used in spaces Dreads couldn't operate, e.g. space hulks.

Dreadnought mercs. Fuck yeah.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 01, 2019, 07:37:34 PM
New Aeronautica Imperialis, Warhammer Underworlds and Blood Bowl.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/01/gencon-previewgw-homepage-post-1/

Was looking forward to the latter two, but can't say I'm a fan of the sculpts or the design choices...

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/GenConreveals-Aug1-AeronauticaImperialPlanes2hvhr.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/GenConreveals-Aug1-AeronauticaOrkPlanes3ujvr.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/GenConreveals-Aug1-WHUWBeastmen9hhcwgf.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/GenConreveals-Aug1-WHUWBeastmen10ejmcg.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/GenConreveals-Aug1-WHUWKurnothi11vhgwr.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/GenConreveals-Aug1-BBSaurus8jnvgwf.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/GenConreveals-Aug1-BBSkinks7qjkjbhgd.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 01, 2019, 07:49:08 PM
Hm, I actually quite like those lizardmen.

The other two are kind of uninspired retreads, though the Chaos minis are still fine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 01, 2019, 07:53:00 PM
Oooh!

I do like those Beastmen, and can see myself picking up the miniatures at some point for use with my OGAM Greeks.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 01, 2019, 08:47:37 PM
The clothing on the lizardmen is what mainly puts me off - the saurus players look great otherwise. Skink heads look strange however.
As for the underworld teams, the ungor look very flat with the spread arms and legs; the others certainly aren't bad (although I wish they painted them with more fur and less skin). Absolutely not a fan of the elves; far too strongly resembling their mortal enemies the beastmen with these mutations, and besides the centaur the poses aren't great either (normally a strength of these Underworld figures). First tree-elves, now beastmen-elves. Can't we just have normal wood elves anymore? I'd even be willing to call them waeld aelves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 01, 2019, 09:03:07 PM
This time none of the bits announced made me go ''ohhhhh yes please'', it's actually nice for once not to be adding to my hobby load hehe
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 01, 2019, 09:50:01 PM
Quote from: Chico on August 01, 2019, 09:03:07 PM
This time none of the bits announced made me go ''ohhhhh yes please'', it's actually nice for once not to be adding to my hobby load hehe

Haha, yeah, me too. Though I can see those aelf heads featuring in a number of Necromunda Brat gang conversion projects.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 01, 2019, 10:28:47 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 01, 2019, 08:47:37 PM
...the ungor look very flat with the spread arms and legs; the others certainly aren't bad (although I wish they painted them with more fur and less skin).

Funny you should say that, as it is the Ungor heads that I do not like much, too boxy, but I would inevitably be tinkering with them anyway so thought that I could live with that. The rest of the Beastmen look pretty good to me and I probably would leave them pretty much as is.

Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 01, 2019, 08:47:37 PM
Absolutely not a fan of the elves; far too strongly resembling their mortal enemies the beastmen with these mutations, and besides the centaur the poses aren't great either (normally a strength of these Underworld figures). First tree-elves, now beastmen-elves. Can't we just have normal wood elves anymore? I'd even be willing to call them waeld aelves.

As for those 'Elves', I did not really look.
Gotta say I agree, they are weird! Call an Elf an Elf, is what I reckon. No need for this weird mash-up on them.
 ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on August 02, 2019, 12:19:28 AM
I mostly like the lizardmen, although the eyes on the skinks are a tad big imo.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 02, 2019, 06:39:18 AM
If I was a Beastmen player I'd just stick the Beast-Elves in my army for added visual flavour.

I can't say I'm sold on them as a concept though they might be good for Eldar Exodite conversions.

Seems odd to pitch Beastmen vs. Beastelves in the same box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 02, 2019, 09:32:00 AM
The elf-beast with the horn, something about that pose and all makes me feel like I've seen him before in the 90?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 02, 2019, 09:36:09 AM
I'll pick up those beastmen I reckon, if they are separate. I'll chop that scenic base tree off that second under and add a weapon though. I just don't like bases that have large pieces that move around with the model when they should be terrain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on August 02, 2019, 09:46:18 AM
Quote from: YPU on August 02, 2019, 09:32:00 AM
The elf-beast with the horn, something about that pose and all makes me feel like I've seen him before in the 90?

The combo of the horn, the spear and a half elf, half beast does make him look like a small version of Orion

I don't like the elfs at all, the two on the right especially just look weird, like there's no middle part and the legs go straight into the chest
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 02, 2019, 02:40:26 PM
Quote from: Mr Tough Guy on August 02, 2019, 09:46:18 AM
The combo of the horn, the spear and a half elf, half beast does make him look like a small version of Orion

Aah that must be it, that weapon even reminds me of that four bladed spear a bit.

(http://www.oocities.org/timessquare/1247/orion.jpg)

What a strange model that was.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on August 02, 2019, 02:54:05 PM
Is it weird that I really like the self-harming beastman...?  ???

The skinks are very cartoony, although the one tonguing the ball made me laugh. I'm not the target audience for Blood Bowl anyway, but I'd buy that one for shits and giggles.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on August 02, 2019, 03:44:34 PM
I'm interested in seeing what the new AI is like. It looks a little basic. But if it's a quick and dirty dog fighting game I may be interested.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 04, 2019, 03:02:57 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 01, 2019, 08:47:37 PM
The clothing on the lizardmen is what mainly puts me off - the saurus players look great otherwise. Skink heads look strange however.
As for the underworld teams, the ungor look very flat with the spread arms and legs; the others certainly aren't bad (although I wish they painted them with more fur and less skin). Absolutely not a fan of the elves; far too strongly resembling their mortal enemies the beastmen with these mutations, and besides the centaur the poses aren't great either (normally a strength of these Underworld figures). First tree-elves, now beastmen-elves. Can't we just have normal wood elves anymore? I'd even be willing to call them waeld aelves.
Until GW stops aping Rackham, there will be more of these types of figures...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on August 04, 2019, 03:38:12 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 02, 2019, 06:39:18 AM
Seems odd to pitch Beastmen vs. Beastelves in the same box.

In a game called Beastgrave?  lol

Quite like the beastmen, nice set of figures if you ask me, plenty of character. Presumably they will eventually be released as easy to build set at £15, which make them around £2 a figure, that ain't too bad at all. They may well join my beasty warband.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on August 04, 2019, 03:48:11 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 01, 2019, 07:37:34 PM
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/GenConreveals-Aug1-WHUWKurnothi11vhgwr.jpg)

So err, am I the only one seeing that elf-centaur thing pushing his spear through his chest?  lol
I know it's not the case but at a glance the convenient placement of that harness plus the colours used in the spear make it look like there's a bloody hole in which the spear goes and the spear blade then just pops out from the middle of his chest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 04, 2019, 06:07:01 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on August 04, 2019, 03:48:11 PM
So err, am I the only one seeing that elf-centaur thing pushing his spear through his chest?  lol

Now that you mention it, it sure does.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 04, 2019, 06:53:44 PM
Can't unsee it.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on August 05, 2019, 04:30:10 PM
Quote from: FionaWhite on August 04, 2019, 03:48:11 PM
So err, am I the only one seeing that elf-centaur thing pushing his spear through his chest?  lol
I know it's not the case but at a glance the convenient placement of that harness plus the colours used in the spear make it look like there's a bloody hole in which the spear goes and the spear blade then just pops out from the middle of his chest.

Not such a bloody hole, as there's no sign of blood. Otherwise, it is somewhat disconcerting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 09, 2019, 09:21:15 PM
I've got Warcry

Models are gorgeous but the main strength of this box is in the terrain. It is superb.
I was visiting berlin last week and they had terrain from the box on sale for 60 Euro and now after getting mine I regret not buying it then :)
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68732426_10157424271458236_5494964734547460096_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQnD7GvKdd6551gJdGwn9aGQRGmKFrK0UOciCnk45blywC0JHET4stvbMzem40OkwSQxZy08rxIc5Ct0Dv32rKn7&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=7eab51bd8e02c3f6726ffac0444c7cd8&oe=5DD92AB5)
(Random Suda samurai is for scale as I was making the photo for my friends :)

My only gripe with it is that I preferred silly skulls to Sigmar sculptures everywhere on the wall sections as they were more generic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 10, 2019, 10:06:37 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 04, 2019, 03:02:57 PM
Until GW stops aping Rackham, there will be more of these types of figures...

Better than Rackham.

Rackham is one of those companies which has a of nostalgia attached to them. They did have a huge impact on the industry, their style was very marmite though. I liked the wolf-men types and the concepts for AT43 - but GW stuff isn't that close to their style.

That said, in the early 2000's Rackham defenitely led the way in terms of technical sculpts etc. But that was 15 years ago now. And whilst some approaches and styles survive in other manufacturers, GW is probably one of those least guilty of 'Imping' - I would suggest that Privateer Press draws far more inspiration from Rackham and can suffer for it as a result as they never quite hit it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 10, 2019, 11:51:10 AM
Well I just saw on my latest news letter" from Element games, that the latest Space Marines to be "Primarised???? :o" are Ultrasmurf Chiel Libby Tigurius and White scars Korrso Khan. Plus a new space marine codex (not sure about this one though).

So I think the trend is clear all Marines are going to be tru-scale from now on, in fact when was the last release of a new stumpy marine?

I know its being obvious for awhile, but to see it actually happening is still quite strange. I like the Primaris stuff, but I feel sorry for those with 100s of stumpy marines already painted etc. I wonder how long before they are truly back-burnered by GW for Primaris types.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on August 10, 2019, 11:53:29 AM
The relatively few painted stumpy marines I  have are going to be fielded as powered armoured humans, very like sisters of battle.

But then again I use a mash-up of 3rd, 1st and 2nd edition 40K rules, so I can do what I want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 10, 2019, 12:10:17 PM
I have my old dark angels. Not sad really. I got a lot of good use out of them as they grew, changed and evolved for 20 odd years. Easily got my money and enjoyment from them. As dark angels, they can also be used as "fallen" as they would not be Primaris.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on August 10, 2019, 01:31:56 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on August 10, 2019, 11:53:29 AM
The relatively few painted stumpy marines I  have are going to be fielded as powered armoured humans, very like sisters of battle.

I like this idea, and I’m pretty sure it existed in early Rogue Trader. I like to think of ‘normal’ power armour as closer to Fallout world - military have access, some rogues and raiders have some... that kind of thing.

I too, bought Warcry - I’ve got a different painting style I want to experiment with (dirty, lots of oil washes - very different my usual) and Warcry seemed a good excuse!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on August 11, 2019, 08:24:26 AM
I have to admit to losing interest in the "tru-skale" (TM) marines (I probably have a lifetimes supply of unassembled going back to 3rd edition).

The local charity bookshop was the recipient of my 4th to 7th edition books (I needed the shelf space and the 7th edition rules were still in their shrink wrap).

I did build a squad for Killteam, but they are still to be painted.

Are the traditional marines still available?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 11, 2019, 09:19:55 AM
Yep, the traditional marines are still available though FW have cut back a bit, for example you can buy mkVI marines but not the Umbra boltguns.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 11, 2019, 10:13:31 AM
Quote from: Jagannath on August 10, 2019, 01:31:56 PM
I too, bought Warcry - I’ve got a different painting style I want to experiment with (dirty, lots of oil washes - very different my usual) and Warcry seemed a good excuse!

I've tried the same lately with my Skitarii - I like the effect but its not worth the hassle for me :)
 In Warcry I want to test those new GW paints

I've played 4 full games and I have to say I like the game a lot so far.  Some scenarios are very exciting to the very end. This is game for everyone wanting fast skirmish battle with simple rules.
And it is really playable with one box of miniatures (if your opponent have a starter set off course :P ) - although Ideally you want to have 2 boxes to play campaign - or more if you want o optimize your war band.
But 3 turn scenarios (especially ones that require you to capture something and have it at the ends of the match or kill certain model are really skewed to Defender/player with initiative in first turn.
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67946853_10157430096258236_3854392522893688832_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_eui2=AeHu-GCaWn3umvkSCk-127OVw3HovkdgGZ1An4mmcFQKz7zF8nUC6UkWJNaSrfZ1CgfatKmSXHGuetQsgPEEWNaiDIIAOIhMAHw6qrtC5VXpdQ&_nc_oc=AQkP4VRptzfKGLEcip2XHFmwWKeJMJi4vLbndhEuw8IgBsIOY2Cyx4G0_tT6c9Ph7oM69MTkR68r5bQ4Y4aXEye9&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=08fedb1c64dad6eee83aa2a0f44eb500&oe=5DDD6DC1)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on August 11, 2019, 10:27:41 AM
One thing I thought about Warcry terrain (which is why I bought it too!) is that I’d have rather had more building walls than the statue head because it bothers me that the rest of the statue is missing! A whole other set with a giant collapsed statue would be very cool though!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 11, 2019, 12:30:54 PM
I share your resentment for the rest of the statue (it would be great in place of walls ad IMHO muli levels are overrated in this game - it happened sporadically in my gaming and only when somebody could deploy above the ground floor) but I love the lone head..

kinda Age of Zardoz :)

On a side note I started to make statue that Steelheart champions have on the bsse (again head only :)

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/67884226_369650800389760_7362175820586024960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_eui2=AeFEnp3ysXD-Gdc9rWwn-IotLzNM-W1ZypcNA94aT4jbuZeiKroACvPMDG8qUeM2438U4CR6llMsX5iI_f5q5sWK_tdpROk0PaDCtbe3Mjvg5g&_nc_oc=AQkiKqYTaVMUKR4qmaLCWEMSwzsERM9686-gk8d3M8GWBV2JaBYxxnBoyGEtGXLA1moR3AooDyAm-U_3cQNUaSNk&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=e6f8a5af962922a2440c76dd1384b6f9&oe=5DEB96BA)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 11, 2019, 02:07:11 PM
These new codex are amazing!

A 50% finished SPESS MAHREEN codex for ONLY £25.
And then you have the privilege of finishing it off with £17.50 supplements!
AND you'll no doubt have a FREE!!! day 1 FAQ for each book just to make them playable because they released them unfinished for your convenience!
AND!!! To save time and effort they just ignore space wolf blood angel and dark angel fans to make it more convenient for you! The gullible customer!

That is such an amazing bargain from an amazing company.

That's almost like video games released 50% finished that everyone LOVES buying add-ons for! They're so popular!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 11, 2019, 05:33:42 PM
Srsly James.. you are still playing 40k ? And still expect better?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 11, 2019, 06:51:56 PM
I'm still playing 40k?
That's news to me!  :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 11, 2019, 07:04:26 PM
So why bother with SM codex?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 11, 2019, 07:41:49 PM
I haven't. Because it's pure bullshit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on August 11, 2019, 07:48:23 PM
Quote from: AWu on August 11, 2019, 05:33:42 PM
Srsly James.. you are still playing 40k ? And still expect better?  lol
His hobby isn't Games Workshop games. His hobby is complaining about Games Workshop games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 11, 2019, 07:56:49 PM
Do we have to go through all this again? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 11, 2019, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on August 11, 2019, 07:56:49 PM
Do we have to go through all this again? ;)

I really hope not...

Just a reminder that pretty much every edition since 3rd edition has done the same thing. Fot those that have been around long enough, that was 21 years ago.

Even 2nd ed had a codex for different chapters.

I'll file this one under - "Here we go again!", "Not the dumping (both meanings) thread."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 11, 2019, 10:16:29 PM
Yeah, thats not strictly true as these aren't full codexes so you need both Codex Marines and the Chapter Codex.

I can see both the good and bad points of doing it like this but as I don't play 8th Ed its no skin off my nose. Besides, I dislike playing SCs so wouldn't get one anyway.

I would be intrigued to hear if there is any clear indication of chapter organisation for a full Primaris Chapter as at the moment that range still seems like its missing some key options.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 11, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
Quote from: TWD on August 11, 2019, 07:48:23 PM
His hobby isn't Games Workshop games. His hobby is complaining about Games Workshop games.

He got me unprepared :)

BTW due to some unknown glitch in new and otherwise very cool Necromunda expansion (there are rules for use robot from Blackstone Fortes as a black market Brute for example)
- The Enforcers (Neo-abitrators) cannot use nor buy their most trademark item - manacles :)
There was even Community article about top 5 Enforcer equipment listing Manacles as Top 2 IIRC :P

But somehow they are only gang that cannot buy them in the rules and every other gang can buy them on black market  o_o

Necromunda groups are puzzled and I find it very hilarious  lol lol lol

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/threeSixty/99120599011_NecEnforcerPatrol3360/01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 12, 2019, 06:31:55 AM
That is tragically hilarious...and entirely in keeping with GWs rules writing :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: armchairgeneral on August 12, 2019, 09:18:59 AM
I noticed my local Games Workshop in Chester has changed it's shop front to Warhammer. Is this part of a company name change?

Just curious. As a historical wargamer, I only buy the odd pot of paint or other modelling items from them occasionally.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 12, 2019, 09:26:50 AM
All new shops are called Warhammer and the old shops have their name changed when they get refurbished. I think its a very slow roll out for a company wide name change. No idea how long it will take but likely in the end Games Workshop will be known only as Warhammer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 12, 2019, 09:35:33 AM
The main (possibly only) Edinburgh store changed its name a couple of years ago. I'd assumed they would rebrand all the stores at once, quite surprised to hear they haven't.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 12, 2019, 09:38:11 AM
Maybe its a cost thing as they only tend to do old stores when they refurbish. I suppose that way they don't need to worry about confusing people as they change has enough time to filter through to the community with little to no effort.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 12, 2019, 07:47:19 PM
The Watford store changed names last week and as far I know (Yet to go inside only walked past) it's haven't had a refurb.

Not keen on the name change to be honest but then again when I worked there the amount of people calling the store thinking it was ''Game'' was rather annoying so all down too name recognition and all that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 12, 2019, 08:24:06 PM
All new GW products have Warhammer on the spine instead of GW.

Stumpy marines are still getting released in the blind box single figure packs, Series 2 is Terminators and is out in September.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 12, 2019, 10:15:17 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 11, 2019, 10:16:29 PM
Yeah, thats not strictly true as these aren't full codexes so you need both Codex Marines and the Chapter Codex.

It's bang on true. 3rd ed had exactly the same set up. With a main vanilla marine dex and then supplementary dex for each specialist chapter.

I mentioned 2nd ed because each chapter needed it's own specialist book apart from Angels of death which had two chapters in it. Not the same, I agree.

So it has been done before is all I was pointing out. Which is true.

Quote from: AWu on August 11, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
He got me unprepared :)

BTW due to some unknown glitch in new and otherwise very cool Necromunda expansion (there are rules for use robot from Blackstone Fortes as a black market Brute for example)
- The Enforcers (Neo-abitrators) cannot use nor buy their most trademark item - manacles :)

I wouldn't say it is their most trademark item. I would suggest shock batons would be those. Or the combat shotguns and bolters of old. It is also not entirely true.

Quote from: AWu on August 11, 2019, 11:28:27 PM
There was even Community article about top 5 Enforcer equipment listing Manacles as Top 2 IIRC :P

But somehow they are only gang that cannot buy them in the rules and every other gang can buy them on black market  o_o

Necromunda groups are puzzled and I find it very hilarious  lol lol lol

As with a lot of things these days, folks like to jump to conclusions before the read through stuff properly and flake out over it.

They don't have manacles but they have access to a drill that replaces the Coup de Grace action with one that removes a model from play in close combat like they had succumbed to a webber attack. That is to say they have been hogtied and prepped for collection to be taken off by the law. So essentially, they have been manacled. For the purposes of the rules it does exactly the same thing as models that have been webbed in the post game sequence.

This is exactly what the manacle rules do. So I suspect what they are saying here is that they either follow a code of killing on sight or they try to arrest. Which fluff wise makes more sense to me.

Either your police force is going to shoot first and worry about prisoners when they find someone still skulking around after, or they will seek to cuff and detain folks at the first opportunity to do so.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 12, 2019, 10:21:31 PM
Quote from: Chico on August 12, 2019, 07:47:19 PM
The Watford store changed names last week and as far I know (Yet to go inside only walked past) it's haven't had a refurb.

Not keen on the name change to be honest but then again when I worked there the amount of people calling the store thinking it was ''Game'' was rather annoying so all down too name recognition and all that.

Yeah - this. I worked for them back in '98 as a 16 year old. We used to get calls for poker sets, backgammon sets etc.

Couple that with the fact that both main games include the word 'Warhammer' in their titles, as do some of the specialist/box games (warhammer Quest etc). And that the majority of folk not in the hobby use the term 'warhammer' to identify it. I have even known people to as "are those warhammers?" - it's what the company is famous for. It makes sense.

It's a bit like people using 'hoover' as a descriptive term when vacuuming is the term and Hoover just happened to be an incredibly popular brand. That then adapted to "I'm doing the hoovering".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 12, 2019, 10:52:23 PM
So the actual police of 40k cannot buy handcuffs...
Wow...just wow.

Thank god you don't pay a premium for amateurish trash right?...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 12, 2019, 11:58:57 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on August 12, 2019, 10:15:17 PM
As with a lot of things these days, folks like to jump to conclusions before the read through stuff properly and flake out over it.

They don't have manacles but they have access to a drill that replaces the Coup de Grace action with one that removes a model from play in close combat like they had succumbed to a webber attack. That is to say they have been hogtied and prepped for collection to be taken off by the law. So essentially, they have been manacled. For the purposes of the rules it does exactly the same thing as models that have been webbed in the post game sequence.


Not really
Restraining protocols skill is very different to Magnacles.
Its coup de grace action wth +1 to capture result
 vs
combat action that do not remove enemy from the battlefield but block movement and give penalty to combat
Fun fact magnacles are described as being used by arbitrators and Enforcers :P

And there was this..
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/02/palanite-enforcers-kit-focusgw-homepage-post-2fw-homepage-post-3/

Super hillarious.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 13, 2019, 01:37:31 AM
Quote from: AWu on August 11, 2019, 12:30:54 PM
I share your resentment for the rest of the statue (it would be great in place of walls ad IMHO muli levels are overrated in this game - it happened sporadically in my gaming and only when somebody could deploy above the ground floor) but I love the lone head..

kinda Age of Zardoz :)

On a side note I started to make statue that Steelheart champions have on the bsse (again head only :)

(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/67884226_369650800389760_7362175820586024960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_eui2=AeFEnp3ysXD-Gdc9rWwn-IotLzNM-W1ZypcNA94aT4jbuZeiKroACvPMDG8qUeM2438U4CR6llMsX5iI_f5q5sWK_tdpROk0PaDCtbe3Mjvg5g&_nc_oc=AQkiKqYTaVMUKR4qmaLCWEMSwzsERM9686-gk8d3M8GWBV2JaBYxxnBoyGEtGXLA1moR3AooDyAm-U_3cQNUaSNk&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=e6f8a5af962922a2440c76dd1384b6f9&oe=5DEB96BA)
Needs more boobies...

Have you considered using the tumbled heads from Mount Nemrut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Nemrut), the Colossus of Constantine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_of_Constantine)  or the various other colossi as references or would these be too historical for your liking? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 13, 2019, 01:43:37 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 12, 2019, 09:26:50 AM
All new shops are called Warhammer and the old shops have their name changed when they get refurbished. I think its a very slow roll out for a company wide name change. No idea how long it will take but likely in the end Games Workshop will be known only as Warhammer.
The Brookline store has been called Warhammer from the get-go...

Went there on opening day, October 15, 2016, to pick up Gorechosen... >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 13, 2019, 01:58:36 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on August 12, 2019, 10:21:31 PM
It's a bit like people using 'hoover' as a descriptive term when vacuuming is the term and Hoover just happened to be an incredibly popular brand. That then adapted to "I'm doing the hoovering".
It's a shame the popularity no longer matches the quality and the same applies to Kenmore, due to outsourcing...

Nowadays, I'm a Miele man...

The SMC20 Microset (https://mielestore.com/smc20-microset.html) is perfect for hobbyists, who tend to spill flock on hardwood floors.  >:(

(https://mielestore.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/700x560/e9c3970ab036de70892d86c6d221abfe/s/m/smc20-microset.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 13, 2019, 02:47:11 AM
When did Adeptus Arbites become Palanite Enforcers? What does Palanite mean? Why couldn't they be called Palatine? How many books does one need and will any old 6 sided dice do or is the Enforcer Patrol Dice Set (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Enforcer-Patrol-Dice-Set-2019) required?

Ever since joining the Church of Zocchi, all other throwable objects have proven inferior to Gamescience® Dice!

Working on my Stallone voice...

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 13, 2019, 02:53:45 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 13, 2019, 02:47:11 AM
When did Adeptus Arbites become Palanite Enforcers? What does Palanite mean?

I think it was a mistake that went to print at some point and they had to go with it. They probably meant to write 'Palatine' (like the main hive) or 'Palatinite' (being from the Palatine Hive).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 13, 2019, 03:04:03 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on August 13, 2019, 02:53:45 AM
I think it was a mistake that went to print at some point and they had to go with it. They probably meant to write 'Palatine' (like the main hive) or 'Palatinite' (being from the Palatine Hive).
If I'm not mistaken it's Palatinate, but it could be explained away as High Gothic! lol

What was wrong with Adeptus Arbites?

Anyone played Necromunda on the Space Crusade board? A little reluctant to fork out $125+ for the boxed set...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 13, 2019, 08:56:49 AM
Enforcers are not the Adeptus Arbites. The former are concerned with gang warfare and keeping some sort of order in de hive. They would be a common sight on the streets, just the local (violent and merciless) police force. The Adeptus Arbites, meanwhile, only gets involved when things really get out of hand. Major Chaos cult uprising, hunting down powerful psykers. There's only supposed to dozens, perhaps a few hundred of them on the entire planet. You don't send MI5 or the FBI to track down a shoplifter.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/30/law-in-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-3/

According to Andy Hoare in one of the recent twitch streams, Palanite is not a typo, but I also fail to see how it is correctly written in the meaning of "from the Palatine Hive".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 13, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
Like Selenite or Sigilite..
Dont know english enough to judge the source.

but my guess is Palantine was untrademarkable :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on August 13, 2019, 02:23:53 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 13, 2019, 08:56:49 AM
Enforcers are not the Adeptus Arbites. The former are concerned with gang warfare and keeping some sort of order in de hive. They would be a common sight on the streets, just the local (violent and merciless) police force. The Adeptus Arbites, meanwhile, only gets involved when things really get out of hand. Major Chaos cult uprising, hunting down powerful psykers. There's only supposed to dozens, perhaps a few hundred of them on the entire planet. You don't send MI5 or the FBI to track down a shoplifter.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/30/law-in-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-3/

According to Andy Hoare in one of the recent twitch streams, Palanite is not a typo, but I also fail to see how it is correctly written in the meaning of "from the Palatine Hive".
Good explanation.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 14, 2019, 12:22:38 AM
Yup. Though this hasn't always been the way things have been depicted and it has confused some folks.

Also, Necro has quite a few Arbites due to having a large base of them there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 17, 2019, 05:01:38 PM
Some more Space Marines announced - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=1125463923+3206404541&Nr=AND(sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw)&Nrs=collection()%2Frecord[product.startDate+%3C%3D+1566061080000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1566061080000)

Not sure I have a use for it, but I am liking the tactical warsuit (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Primaris-Invictor-Tactical-Warsuit-2019) It's on a 90mm base, so it's a big beast :o

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120101264_SMPrimarisInvictusTacticalWarsuit01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 17, 2019, 05:09:19 PM
It is a nice mini though it doesn't seem very Space Marine to me...and then theres...

"Fire the nipple guns!" lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on August 17, 2019, 06:15:50 PM
That would make a good load all or construction/mining walker ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 17, 2019, 07:36:58 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 17, 2019, 05:09:19 PM
"Fire the nipple guns!"

Godsdamn you, now I need that mini  lol

On a serious note, I agree on the conversion potential it has. As a gigantic stealth walker, it is a bit silly. But a lovely sculpt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 17, 2019, 10:29:00 PM
That thing is supposed to be stealth?  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 18, 2019, 12:10:28 AM
Yep, Ninja marines are huge. Didn't you know? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 18, 2019, 02:36:40 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 17, 2019, 05:09:19 PM
It is a nice mini though it doesn't seem very Space Marine to me...and then theres...

"Fire the nipple guns!" lol
:` :` :`

Battletech had mechs with nipple guns years before GWdubs...

(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/5/54/3025ostsol.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 18, 2019, 03:24:46 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 18, 2019, 02:36:40 AM
:` :` :`

Battletech had mechs with nipple guns years before GWdubs...

(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/5/54/3025ostsol.jpg)
No that's the udder sort of nipple guns... I'm so sorry, I'll just go now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 18, 2019, 04:43:34 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 18, 2019, 03:24:46 AM
No that's the udder sort of nipple guns... I'm so sorry, I'll just go now.
Not a leg man I gather?  How about plus size?;)

Pinion (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Pinion)

(http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/c/c3/Pinion.jpg/603px-sb20t1n4pjtw8iu3le9xi5mue1pd5dp.jpg?timestamp=20150928225616)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on August 18, 2019, 06:33:31 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 18, 2019, 12:10:28 AM
Yep, Ninja marines are huge. Didn't you know? ;)
To steal a line from Barry Norman "small buildings can hide behind them".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 18, 2019, 06:34:31 AM
Wow...I didn't realise there was such a tradition of nipple guns...hmm do you think that's what Magnus was emulating when he designed his daemon prince armour :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on August 18, 2019, 06:41:48 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 18, 2019, 02:36:40 AM
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/5/54/3025ostsol.jpg)
This is probably not the forum, but I had forgotten how some of the Batletech designs managed to be both derivative and rubbish.

Someone has taken a Zentradi Tactical Pod Regult, swapped the hips round but forgotten to change the posture to match.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/macross/images/8/8c/Regult.gif/revision/latest?cb=20131005135903)
Gah!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 18, 2019, 07:25:43 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 18, 2019, 03:24:46 AM
No that's the udder sort of nipple guns... I'm so sorry, I'll just go now.
Muhahahaha  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 19, 2019, 01:33:31 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 18, 2019, 06:34:31 AM
Wow...I didn't realise there was such a tradition of nipple guns...hmm do you think that's what Magnus was emulating when he designed his daemon prince armour :D
Sometimes horns are just horns...

Unlike Gundam's mobile suits Battletech mechs have weaponry attached to parts of the chassis and there are only so many hardpoints: shoulders, chest, arms and a few rear mounted options, some at arse level. lol I have yet to see a crotch hardpoint*: imagine a twin drum loading projectile firing mount, though with jamming being a random annoyance, expect the usual sympathy talk. ::)   

*IIRC, the Epic Imperator Titan had a crotch gun and if damaged, it lost an attack die!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 19, 2019, 07:10:49 AM
Yeah but it was such a small gun all the other titans laughed at him
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 19, 2019, 09:37:26 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 19, 2019, 01:33:31 AM
...imagine a twin drum loading projectile firing mount, though with jamming being a random annoyance, expect the usual sympathy talk. ::) 

Sexmachine's hidden gun in From Dusk Till Dawn comes to mind here lol

Tarantino must have liked it a lot, because the same prop showed up in at least two other movies of his (or Rodriguez's; the line blurs sometimes... ::) ).


Also, I once started on a Golden Daemon squad entry with Inquisitor Draco and his retinue on a scenic base. His squad included Imperial Fist Captain Lexandro d'Arquebus, whose armour was richly decorated. So richly in fact, that it was described as having a rearing unicorn engraved on the crotchpiece (yeah; the guy knew how to be subliminal lol )

And with Space Marine sizes being what they were BP (Before Primaris), even with him 'biggerized', I was completely stumped as to how to proceed with that. And to think I once managed to paint a full litany, in Latin, on a Space Marine shoulderpad rim! The project kind of faltered from there... Thanks Ian Watson ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 19, 2019, 09:02:32 PM
New Blackstone Fortress stuff just a couple of weeks after Warcry - I'm surprised at how quick that is to be honest. GW seem to be on an insane release schedule just now.

Also, have to say the previewed Sister of Battle medic is terrible. A shame, as everything else SoB they've previewed has been OK at least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 19, 2019, 11:34:39 PM
It's too quick to follow. We do/did Necromunda, still do Kill Team once in a while, later this week we're going to start on Warcry, still buying inot Shadespire season 1/2 and in a couple of weeks 3, but just for the mini's, Silver Tower hasn't been finished yet so BSF still lies untouched in the closet ( ok, that sounds a bit, ehm, well..., don't think too much about it   ;D ) and I even haven't really started on 40K or AoS.  o_o.
Ah well, back to the hobby table, glueing Warcry terrain for the upcoming days...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 19, 2019, 11:37:19 PM
The pose is lazy. Unimaginative. Boring. Static. Lifeless and just gives off a vibe of complete obliviousness to what's going on.

The sculpt is stiff and overly busy.
Somebody just found the CAD "bits box" and threw on everything.

A typical 2019 GW sculpt. No effort because why bother? People will throw money at boring designs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 20, 2019, 03:25:38 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on August 19, 2019, 11:37:19 PM
A typical 2019 GW sculpt. No effort because why bother? People will throw money at boring designs.

I would be one of those people... :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on August 20, 2019, 05:04:28 AM
Actually,I rather like it,and the casualty (and the duckies) have lots of potential. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 20, 2019, 06:18:50 AM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on August 19, 2019, 11:34:39 PM
It's too quick to follow. We do/did Necromunda, still do Kill Team once in a while, later this week we're going to start on Warcry, still buying inot Shadespire season 1/2 and in a couple of weeks 3, but just for the mini's, Silver Tower hasn't been finished yet so BSF still lies untouched in the closet ( ok, that sounds a bit, ehm, well..., don't think too much about it   ;D ) and I even haven't really started on 40K or AoS.  o_o.
Ah well, back to the hobby table, glueing Warcry terrain for the upcoming days...

Yeah, there was a time when you could engage with each of GWs games but there are sooo many now and such a rate of releases you'd have to be Elton John to afford it .


I like the idea of the Sisters medic but more as a diorama rather than as a gaming mini.

The wounds on the prone sister don't really look terribly severe...not that I've ever been shot so what do I know...they look like they were positioned low down and to the side so that she can grasp her icon thingy without blocking them. Plus that reaching off to the unseen seems a little William Shatner level of death scene :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 20, 2019, 08:53:53 AM
She's just reaching out begging someone to stop her reading that damn ungainly "where the hell do i carry this" giant ass book and just tend to her wounds instead of shouting off into the distance completely ignoring her existence.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 20, 2019, 02:19:03 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on August 20, 2019, 08:53:53 AM
She's just reaching out begging someone to stop her reading that damn ungainly "where the hell do i carry this" giant ass book and just tend to her wounds instead of shouting off into the distance completely ignoring her existence.
I actually really like the idea of imperial medics giving a faith (morale) boost to surrounding troops, but no actual medical aid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cosmotiger on August 20, 2019, 03:52:40 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 20, 2019, 06:18:50 AM
I like the idea of the Sisters medic but more as a diorama rather than as a gaming mini.

Yep, I know GW's heor figures have gotten bigger and bigger over time, but what's the size of that base? 50mm ? 60mm? more than that? You're basically pushing around a terrain feature.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 20, 2019, 06:58:59 PM
The figures are separate from the base. You can clearly mount them in other ways if you please.

The reading actually sort of works, if you imagine the servos doing any medical work, while the hospitaller tends to, um, spiritual needs. Also that medic has multiple arm and head options, so I'm sure there's other ways to make the figure work.

Not the greatest figure, but far from horrible. I'm sure it'll be possible to put together a couple of decent medics out of the various hospitaller bits.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 20, 2019, 07:52:01 PM
I'll probably buy her if it's a bit affordable ( as in, less than 30 euro's ), quite like the scene.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 20, 2019, 08:01:22 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 20, 2019, 06:18:50 AM
Yeah, there was a time when you could engage with each of GWs games but there are sooo many now and such a rate of releases you'd have to be Elton John to afford it .

Woooaaahh! Hold your horses there!

So GW started with a catalogue of RPG's and games based in various universes from generic fantasy tropes through to Dr. Who and Judge Dredd. In many ways, this didn't really stop until the death of specialist games in the mid 2000's.

The 1990's saw the releases of Epic, Necromunda, Warhammer Quest, Gorkamorka, Mordheim, Talisman, Inquisitor, Man O'war, Warmaster, Space Hulk and various other little games like the Ork fighter aircraft boxed game. Any back catalogue or old White Dwarf will identify that this isn't unusual for GW. In fact, what was unusual was the period from around 2000 when specialist games became confined to web support only until a couple of years ago when GW woke up and realised that with the boom in tabletop gaming they have such a rich universe in which to base games they could aim at that market.

I don't think they expect you to buy into everything, they hope you do but they are not foolish enough to think everyone can afford to buy into all of the games and systems.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 20, 2019, 09:02:03 PM
There's a humble bundle at the moment for what looks like all the Dark Heresy RPG PDFs - link (https://www.humblebundle.com/books/warhammer-40000-dark-heresy-rpg-books?hmb_source=)

$1 for the core book and some others up to $18 for the whole lot
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 20, 2019, 09:34:31 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on August 20, 2019, 08:01:22 PM
Woooaaahh! Hold your horses there!

Dunno if I agree with everything you say there, but maybe it is also my perspective that has changed. Most of those 90s games you mentioned seemed like shit to me at the time, so I cared not for them. Now I want all the shiny shiny things!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 21, 2019, 07:59:08 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on August 20, 2019, 08:01:22 PM
Woooaaahh! Hold your horses there!

So GW started with a catalogue of RPG's and games based in various universes from generic fantasy tropes through to Dr. Who and Judge Dredd. In many ways, this didn't really stop until the death of specialist games in the mid 2000's.

The 1990's saw the releases of Epic, Necromunda, Warhammer Quest, Gorkamorka, Mordheim, Talisman, Inquisitor, Man O'war, Warmaster, Space Hulk and various other little games like the Ork fighter aircraft boxed game. Any back catalogue or old White Dwarf will identify that this isn't unusual for GW. In fact, what was unusual was the period from around 2000 when specialist games became confined to web support only until a couple of years ago when GW woke up and realised that with the boom in tabletop gaming they have such a rich universe in which to base games they could aim at that market.

I don't think they expect you to buy into everything, they hope you do but they are not foolish enough to think everyone can afford to buy into all of the games and systems.

Quote from: Belligerentparrot on August 20, 2019, 09:34:31 PM
Dunno if I agree with everything you say there, but maybe it is also my perspective that has changed. Most of those 90s games you mentioned seemed like shit to me at the time, so I cared not for them. Now I want all the shiny shiny things!


:D Yeah I think my memory might be cherry picking here...plus not all of those games were out at the same time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 21, 2019, 08:14:27 AM
Somewhere along the line, without even realizing it, I've become a collector of all those nineties GW games. So now I have a copy of almost every boxed GW game that was released in those years. Yes; that includes the 'Wargame Series' and the smaller, simpler versions of the large ones. I'm only short a couple of games and sufficient shelf space now... ::)

But seriously; I remember walking into the only GW store in the Netherlands at the time and being gobsmacked by the amount of different games they had on the shelves; all shiny, all unobtainable (because money) and I'm probably making up for my inability to buy them back then by collecting them, but it's become a somewhat important part of the hobby for me.

And to be honest, most of them aren't even that good. There obviously are a few gems in there, but the majority are just OK at best and there are even a few stinkers too, but it's always fun to take one of those ancient beasts out for a spin, even if it's just for nostalgia's sake... :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on August 21, 2019, 08:23:28 AM
GW over the years like most companies have had larger and smaller active game ranges.

Of course some are hits, some misses, and its difficult to understand/accept why some get dropped faster than others over the years.

Then they end up for a while with barely 2 active game/products as such, everyone bemoans the lack of GW variety, the closure of specialist games etc.

Now they have in effect brought some back, are we heading towards bemoans of to many games?

To much cost, high prices, always but too many?

Pick and choose, enjoy the ones you like and hope they are not the ones they drop in the near future instead?
 
Choice is a good thing.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 21, 2019, 08:53:02 AM
Not always. In fact too much choice can actually be a problem, people can psychologically seize up unable to make a choice.

I think a middle road is best, offering a few choices that cover a range of areas or else you risk the options crossing over and then, from a business point of view, you risk competing with yourself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 21, 2019, 04:30:09 PM
The GW release schedule is far too fast for my liking but that's mostly down to their pricing being high and my own limited toy funds and hooby time.

I have no hope of keeping up with buying everything I want so have to pick and choose, while if there were some or more quite periods I could go and see what I missed and have a breather.

Though I will say some other companies are getting as bad (Warlord and too a lesser degree Mantic).

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 21, 2019, 05:32:10 PM
Quote from: Chico on August 21, 2019, 04:30:09 PM
The GW release schedule is far too fast for my liking but that's mostly down to their pricing being high and my own limited toy funds and hooby time.

I have no hope of keeping up with buying everything I want so have to pick and choose, while if there were some or more quite periods I could go and see what I missed and have a breather.

Though I will say some other companies are getting as bad (Warlord and too a lesser degree Mantic).
QFT...

While I expect planned obsolescence from GW products, unexpectedly with  Man O' War, >:( I never expected an accelerated rate, especially with rule and army books, like a 3rd edition of Blades of Khorne book in 4 years. Will the Book of Judgment and the Book of Peril be re-released as a single streamlined title in 2 years, meaning I've wasted around $82, in addition to the $110+ for the core rules and gangs book and the cards?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 21, 2019, 05:37:01 PM
Now we know the origins.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 21, 2019, 07:24:57 PM
pfffffffttthahahahahaha  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 21, 2019, 09:11:44 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 21, 2019, 05:32:10 PM
. Will the Book of Judgment and the Book of Peril be re-released as a single streamlined title in 2 years, meaning I've wasted around $82, in addition to the $110+ for the core rules and gangs book and the cards?

Don't quote me on it, but they said after doing the new rule book and gangs of the underhive book that they wouldn't be doing that again in terms of combining previous releases into a single book. I think in response to feedback. Also, they are hardback, where as before the gangwar books were softback.

Quote from: Lost Egg on August 21, 2019, 07:59:08 AM
:D Yeah I think my memory might be cherry picking here...plus not all of those games were out at the same time.

Epic(whichever edition it was), Necromunda, Warhammer Quest, Gorkamorka, Mordheim, Inquisitor, Space Hulk and Warmaster were not all released at the same time but when you consider most (note MOST) of those came at around or after Necromunda in 95 it is fair to say that they were around very very close together.

And I missed Bloodbowl off that list.

The latest version of Necromunda was released in 2017. Underworlds Shadespire was early 2018. Warcry is this year, almost 2yrs on from Necromunda.

I also like that when I point out inaccuracies, other folks then suggest that they were all poor games so don't count. ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 21, 2019, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on August 21, 2019, 09:11:44 PM
The latest version of Necromunda was released in 2017. Underworlds Shadespire was early 2018. Warcry is this year, almost 2yrs on from Necromunda.

I also like that when I point out inaccuracies, other folks then suggest that they were all poor games so don't count. ;D
Also the new Rogue Trader, Blackstone Fortress, Titanicus, Kill Team (basically twice  o_o), and the revamped BB teams in the last couple of years. I don't think the initial sentiment was that inaccurate, but nae bother, I see what you're saying.

One other difference, now I think about it, between current and past GW output that might alter perception is the new style of minis. Everything except Titanicus fits, or can easily enough be made to fit, amazingly well with everything else.
That has probably shaped my sense that GW's output is a bit overwhelming. I have no idea if e.g. Inquisitor was a poor game, it was of no relevance to my addiction to 40k/Necro converting. Pretty much *all* the new stuff has endless conversion potential if you like that sort of thing. And I fuckin love that sort of thing! 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 22, 2019, 09:48:06 PM
Shah, yes. Well that's a different thing.

If you ask me, the millennium ushered in a sort of strangely paranoid GW that saw a popular specialist game (how could I forget BFG!!!) As a distraction away from the main games. This coupled with a huge licence in LotR meant specialist games were mothballed then ditched altogether.

This time, I think they have, correctly, seen that specialist games can add to the depth of the actual asset they sell - their universes.

Even Necromunda seems to teach you about hive worlds and give cities. Glimpses into civvy life and perils that is otherwise missing from most other fluff.

Kill team, which saw it's first edition as part of the 3rd/4th ed 40k rulebook, allows folks to depict much smaller actions, though primarily aimed at quick tourney gamers. I do feel the old rulebook version and supporting white dwarf articles were more narrative and more fun to play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 23, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
£176 for two sculpts!  :o
What a steal!!!  lol

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Golden-Keshig-Jetbike-Full-Strength-Squad-2019
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on August 23, 2019, 03:49:25 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on August 22, 2019, 09:48:06 PM
Shah, yes. Well that's a different thing.

If you ask me, the millennium ushered in a sort of strangely paranoid GW that saw a popular specialist game (how could I forget BFG!!!) As a distraction away from the main games. This coupled with a huge licence in LotR meant specialist games were mothballed then ditched altogether.

This time, I think they have, correctly, seen that specialist games can add to the depth of the actual asset they sell - their universes.

Even Necromunda seems to teach you about hive worlds and give cities. Glimpses into civvy life and perils that is otherwise missing from most other fluff.

Kill team, which saw it's first edition as part of the 3rd/4th ed 40k rulebook, allows folks to depict much smaller actions, though primarily aimed at quick tourney gamers. I do feel the old rulebook version and supporting white dwarf articles were more narrative and more fun to play.

What ended up killing specialist games was the death of the fanatic magazine editor at the time, with him gone as driving force the whole thing shuttered in under a month.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 23, 2019, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on August 23, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
£176 for two sculpts!  :o
What a steal!!!  lol

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Golden-Keshig-Jetbike-Full-Strength-Squad-2019
It's one champion and five regulars, so £176.00 for 6 flying penises - much more reasonable ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 23, 2019, 04:00:06 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on August 23, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
£176 for two sculpts!  :o
What a steal!!!  lol

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Golden-Keshig-Jetbike-Full-Strength-Squad-2019
I see six scuplts... :?

It's $276 for us stateside. :o
 
Is this like that Next Generation episode in which Picard was interrogated by that Cardassian? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 23, 2019, 04:16:49 PM
I think he ment two different sculpts (the champion & 1 trooper), though 6 minis (5 of the same trooper sculpt).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 23, 2019, 07:51:56 PM
Quote from: zemjw on August 23, 2019, 03:59:42 PM
It's one champion and five regulars, so £176.00 for 6 flying penises - much more reasonable ;D

Well, if the penises are flying, totally reasonable.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 23, 2019, 09:43:04 PM
Exactly why I said 2 sculpts.
Not 6 minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 24, 2019, 12:44:11 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on August 23, 2019, 09:43:04 PM
Exactly why I said 2 sculpts.
Not 6 minis.
No need to be testy! ;D Sculpts and minis are interchangeable, like scale and size... :D

TBF, flying penises are tight! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 24, 2019, 01:11:25 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on August 21, 2019, 09:11:44 PM
Don't quote me on it, but they said after doing the new rule book and gangs of the underhive book that they wouldn't be doing that again in terms of combining previous releases into a single book. I think in response to feedback. Also, they are hardback, where as before the gangwar books were softback.
That doesn't rule out a edition in two years...

The local Warhammer store manager told me there won't be another AoS edition, but based on the proliferation of supplements, there might be consolidation in the near future. :-I What I liked about AoS was that aside from the General's Handbook and maybe an army book, you could focus on purchasing minis. With AoS 2.0, I needed the core book, as I played with Grand Alliances and it was removed from GH, >:( the General's Handbook, though I only need it for the points, and Malign Sorcery - this and some bad gaming experiences is why I bowed out. I'm also uncomfortable paying for errata, in this case points values, and was why I lost interest in WFB 6th edition with Warhammer Chronicles.       

I purchased an Iron Golems band on eBay, but have no use for the cards, as I lost interest in the game. The converted sculpts will be added to an unit of pit fighter mercenaries consisting of figures from today, Mordheim and 1980s Chaos Thugs. Will be using either WFB 6th Ed., with encumbrance rules added back in, 5th edition or 3rd.

Looking at the books, Necromunda has the same production values as expected from Specialist Games of old and the 1990s, compared with anything from AoS. :) Will be receiving my Palanite Enforcers soon and might get additional boxes to field a 40 man platoon. 8) 

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 24, 2019, 01:45:55 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 13, 2019, 08:56:49 AM
Enforcers are not the Adeptus Arbites. The former are concerned with gang warfare and keeping some sort of order in de hive. They would be a common sight on the streets, just the local (violent and merciless) police force. The Adeptus Arbites, meanwhile, only gets involved when things really get out of hand. Major Chaos cult uprising, hunting down powerful psykers. There's only supposed to dozens, perhaps a few hundred of them on the entire planet. You don't send MI5 or the FBI to track down a shoplifter.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/30/law-in-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-3/

According to Andy Hoare in one of the recent twitch streams, Palanite is not a typo, but I also fail to see how it is correctly written in the meaning of "from the Palatine Hive".
I've seen mention of the MI5/FBI, but I don't think it's an apt comparison: nothing in that paragraph suggests intelligence roles! A better comparison would be the Palanites being the equivalent of Vigiles, sans firefighting capabilities, and Adeptus Arbites being Cohortes Urbanae. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 24, 2019, 02:03:11 AM
Quote from: AWu on August 13, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
Like Selenite or Sigilite..
Dont know english enough to judge the source.

but my guess is Palantine was untrademarkable :P
Selenite is a mineral and Selene was a lunar goddess.

Sigilite is a made up word, so might be trademarkable.

Palantine is a commune in the Doubs department in the Bourgogne-Franche-Comté region in eastern France.

Palatine can't be trademarked, but Palanite sounds like another mineral named after someone with the surname Palan - https://www.houseofnames.com/palan-family-crest (https://www.houseofnames.com/palan-family-crest).

I think someone was trying to be clever and derived Palanite from Palantir - so much for moving away from Tolkien! 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 24, 2019, 02:17:04 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on August 14, 2019, 12:22:38 AM
Yup. Though this hasn't always been the way things have been depicted and it has confused some folks.

Also, Necro has quite a few Arbites due to having a large base of them there.
It's what the people wanted!

I remember the concept sketches from Confrontation and the early models from 40k in stylized helmets, while the ones from 2003, look more like Enforcers, but with different helmets. Maybe Forge World will release helmet variants and rules to convert the Enforcers into Adeptus Arbites? Listed under equipment options, but I don't see Shock staves and Vigilance Pattern Assault Shields on the sprue... :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on August 24, 2019, 07:19:09 AM
Quote from: Kommando_J on August 23, 2019, 03:49:25 PM
What ended up killing specialist games was the death of the fanatic magazine editor at the time, with him gone as driving force the whole thing shuttered in under a month.

That is incorrect.
Steve Hambrook passed away in September 2003.
Fanatic Magazine was was launched in and published until the end of 2004.
Specialist Games products continued to be produced and available until 2008.

Steve was the editor of most (if not all) of the individual SG magazines. Andy Hall (still very much alive and writing for the Warhammer Total War video games) was editor of Fanatic Magazine (Fanny Mag as it was sometimes known :)).

Economics (and some internal GW politics) put an end to Fanatic/SG . Steve's sad and untimely death was not a factor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 24, 2019, 09:12:17 AM
So nobody is going to blame the declining quality of sculpts and rules?

Two rather huge factors?
I mean come on compare early figures of Mordheim and Inquisitor to the latter days.
Compare the rules from BFG for Imperial and Chaos to Tyranids and Necrons.

Producing low quality unplaytested garbage killed specialist games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on August 24, 2019, 09:56:31 AM
I alluded to that with "internal politics' :)
Fanatic wasn't given access to the Studio sculptors and other creatives and so had to rely on freelancers.

Some of the resulting product didn't therefore meet the standards and expectations of existing GW customers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 24, 2019, 01:03:19 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on August 24, 2019, 09:12:17 AM
So nobody is going to blame the declining quality of sculpts and rules?

I'd love to, but both my wallet and the number of games played say otherwise  :).
Never bought more new stuff, never bought more models for more systems without even caring what game they are for, never played so many different GW-games in the same time period. In fact, until Necromunda 2.0 the only thing I bought 40K'ish was my old Cawdor gang, back in the mid 90's. And I feel the newest Necromunda tactically has more to offer than the old version, especially the alternate activation, combined with group activation.
So no, I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 24, 2019, 03:05:51 PM
I suspect James Valentine was suggesting that the second generation of things, Fanatic sculpts, were worse quality (that is to say, the second run of Scavvies was worse that the first versions). I would agree in many cases, I think the second version of the gangs (especially the Redemption) was objectively worse than the first gens.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 24, 2019, 03:26:05 PM
Indeed.
Hence why my examples mentioned did not include necromunda. So as to make it very clear I was referring to games from back in the day (though that would include old necromunda)

But just like I said sculpts not figures from the scar bikers people twist words to suit a narrative.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 24, 2019, 08:00:31 PM
While I like that there are many attractive games.

They do compete with themselves for my money.
I am buying Munda but I would like to get mor of the Middle Earth stuff, and Blackstone and more Warcry and some 40k and AoS stuff but I am sticking to Munda and maybe Blackstone expansion because of to big saturation of releases
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 25, 2019, 01:48:49 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on August 24, 2019, 03:26:05 PM
But just like I said sculpts not figures from the scar bikers people twist words to suit a narrative.

Mwoah. I think it has more to do that when people see the name JamesValentine in a GW-related topic they expect to see just another case of whining about models, games, rules or pricing policy GW.
We know, you don't like it, in the days of yore everything was better, cheaper, more thought-trhoug, more artsyfartsy, more feeling with the subject, more original, more soul etc. etc. etc.
Nowadays it's just rubbish and stupid and everything sucks and whine whine whine. Fine. Just don't get surprised if people get a bit fed-up with your pathetic crusade on GW. Grow up, sonny. Models wil be bought, sold, painted and played with, regardless whatever you - or me - say about it. It just annoys the hell out of me, this pointless whining.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: redzed on August 25, 2019, 12:42:25 PM
"Fight, Fight, Fight", 
I'd just like to say that everything after 3rd edition is rubbish, except for WAB, WAB was ace but GW destroyed it.
GW used to feast on the tears of children but now they gorge themselves on adult angst.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 25, 2019, 01:04:18 PM
Keep it civil, chaps. That goes for everyone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 25, 2019, 01:54:02 PM
Quote from: redzed on August 25, 2019, 12:42:25 PM
"Fight, Fight, Fight", 

Neh, I'll pull out of this one and just ignore JV's posts. Probably what I should have done in the first place.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 25, 2019, 03:33:07 PM
What with the pre-order coming up soon does anyone know if the two Kill Teams in the new starter are similar points?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on August 25, 2019, 04:33:31 PM
Late to the party again....

I thought the last nail in Specialist Games' coffin was the loss of figure manufacturing capability when GW ceased metal figure manufacture.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on August 25, 2019, 04:45:20 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 25, 2019, 03:33:07 PM
What with the pre-order coming up soon does anyone know if the two Kill Teams in the new starter are similar points?
Did I mention being late to this party.
Rather than trawl through previous posts can anyone ell me what new Kill team starter set?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on August 25, 2019, 04:48:37 PM
Even later, and daring a digression: I haven't bought any new GW games in a very long time, and have minimal experience of any of their games. (Didn't like 40K at all and am still not tempted by it, LotR - as it was then - seemed promising after a sample game in store, but I never got beyond buying models, mostly acquired via the old Battlegaming in Middle Earth magazine.)

Somehow, I've always wondered what, if anything, I was missing. Consequently, as a result of an impossible to resist purchase of the main AoS rulebook & Core rules via eBay, I am now, for better or worse,  committed to delving into a system and background of which I know virtually nothing.

My question is: what should I do next? Please be gentle; I'm easily discouraged.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 25, 2019, 05:09:34 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on August 25, 2019, 04:45:20 PM
Did I mention being late to this party.
Rather than trawl through previous posts can anyone ell me what new Kill team starter set?

Basically its the same as before but with the Mechanicus terrain & board plus the teams have been changed to Primaris Reivers vs. Tau Fire Warriors. No idea what the points of the two teams is like so whether they are comparable. Also, I've no idea if the typos & FAQs have been added/updated in the book.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on August 25, 2019, 06:55:09 PM
Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on August 25, 2019, 04:48:37 PM
My question is: what should I do next? Please be gentle; I'm easily discouraged.

Well, you can't go wrong buying one or two Start collecting! sets (if there is one) from the faction you want to play. Also getting their newest Battletome is recommended as well.
The rest depends on how you want to play, going to tournaments or casually with friends.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 25, 2019, 07:05:36 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on August 25, 2019, 04:33:31 PM
Late to the party again....

I thought the last nail in Specialist Games' coffin was the loss of figure manufacturing capability when GW ceased metal figure manufacture.
Hmm? GW never stopped producing metal minis. Changed a bunch to resin, sure, and any new releases are plastic (or resin if via Forge World), but some figures have been continuously in production in metal, to this day. They've even started getting more old metal models back in production, both in Made-to-Order waves and just returning them in general (the latter exclusively for Middle-earth as far as I'm aware).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 26, 2019, 01:15:51 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 25, 2019, 07:05:36 PM
Hmm? GW never stopped producing metal minis. Changed a bunch to resin, sure, and any new releases are plastic (or resin if via Forge World), but some figures have been continuously in production in metal, to this day. They've even started getting more old metal models back in production, both in Made-to-Order waves and just returning them in general (the latter exclusively for Middle-earth as far as I'm aware).
Which figures have been continuously produced in metal? AFAIK, if not discontinued the figure would be re-released as Finecast. I don't like the made to order service, as it's a limited time gimmick...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 26, 2019, 01:18:23 AM
Those made to order do seem gimmicky - hey, we found some almost
dead moulds and will cast until they die.

Still, it’s a nostalgia seller.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on August 26, 2019, 02:11:28 AM
Steel Legion ,Ratlings and a few Guard characters are still there in metal. Almost all the sisters. Up until  recently Mordians,Valhallans, and Tallarnan s too.
Unless the descriptions havn't been changed that is. Like the old saying "If its a lie he told it" lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 26, 2019, 03:12:21 AM
Anyone have a clue as to GW's plans with Necromunda gang and tactics cards? Could one play a campaign without them? In the two years since its release, the majority of the card packs are OOP and some like the Van Saar gang are $40+ on eBay.:o I might be able to get the Escher and generic cards from the Underhive box cheaply on eBay and Enforcers and Goliath available ATM, but out of luck on everything else. Some nice people on the web have made lists containing all the common and gang specific cards and it's not that difficult to assign numbers and have players roll for 'em with percentile dice.

Some have made some custom ones:

(https://yaktribe.games/community/attachments/85ebwec-png.76114/)

Are there any free paper sci-fi boards and terrain compatible with the Necromunda ones? I might be able to get the Underhive tiles separately from eBay and was thinking of unearthing my Space Crusade board, though the squares might be small, but everything else is fantasy: Hero Quest board, Advance Heroquest tiles, D&D and Rackham Cadwallon reversible tiles. Maybe the Rackham Hybrid tiles with Necromunda Barricades, Bulkheads and Objectives?

Would like to avoid purchasing more dice, especially as I prefer Gamescience ones, so found charts for Firepower and Injury:

Firepower Dice Chart
D6   Result
1   1 hit + Ammo !
2-3   1 hit
4-5   2 hits
6   3 hits

Injury Dice Chart
D6   Result
1-2   Flesh Wound
3-5   Serious Injury
6   Out of Action
 
Are the Scatter Dice the same as the artillery dice that first came out in WFB 4th Edition?

If I'm not mistaken, the two round and flame templates are the same size as past ones from WFB and W40k?
 

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 26, 2019, 03:15:55 AM
Quote from: fitterpete on August 26, 2019, 02:11:28 AM
Steel Legion ,Ratlings and a few Guard characters are still there in metal. Almost all the sisters. Up until  recently Mordians,Valhallans, and Tallarnan s too.
Unless the descriptions havn't been changed that is. Like the old saying "If its a lie he told it" lol
Since the latter are no longer available, then couldn't one assume it's remaining stock? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on August 26, 2019, 03:49:35 AM
Sure
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: grant on August 26, 2019, 04:28:01 AM
Quote from: fitterpete on August 26, 2019, 03:49:35 AM
Sure

? Cryptic?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 26, 2019, 08:22:40 AM
I'm still waiting for that new Beastman Underworlds crew to come out. They look great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on August 26, 2019, 09:39:38 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 25, 2019, 05:09:34 PM
Basically its the same as before but with the Mechanicus terrain & board plus the teams have been changed to Primaris Reivers vs. Tau Fire Warriors. No idea what the points of the two teams is like so whether they are comparable. Also, I've no idea if the typos & FAQs have been added/updated in the book.
Thanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 26, 2019, 11:44:00 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 26, 2019, 03:12:21 AM
Anyone have a clue as to GW's plans with Necromunda gang and tactics cards?

Afaik they did have some problems with the printer so they were looking for a solution. The message is mixed wheter or not they will get a reprint. Wouldn't surprise me if they turned up as free downloads on the community site, because a small reprint - most p[eople who need them will already have bought them - at a new printer won't be cheap.
Never played a campaign - yet - but yes, if your opponent has them you'll going to need them aswell.
My advise would be to make a list of them and dice for it ( of course, I'd never suggest to copy them in order to make your own cards, that would be illegal  :D ).
About templates, dice, terrain etc, why not buy the starter set at a discounter? Even if you don't plan to use either of the gangs you'll still have more than enough spare weaponry and conversion parts....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 26, 2019, 11:59:20 AM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on August 26, 2019, 11:44:00 AM
Afaik they did have some problems with the printer so they were looking for a solution. The message is mixed wheter or not they will get a reprint. Wouldn't surprise me if they turned up as free downloads on the community site, because a small reprint - most p[eople who need them will already have bought them - at a new printer won't be cheap.
Never played a campaign - yet - but yes, if your opponent has them you'll going to need them aswell.
My advise would be to make a list of them and dice for it ( of course, I'd never suggest to copy them in order to make your own cards, that would be illegal  :D ).
About templates, dice, terrain etc, why not buy the starter set at a discounter? Even if you don't plan to use either of the gangs you'll still have more than enough spare weaponry and conversion parts....

This.

Easily playable without though. And personally, I don't really like the 2d version of the game. It limits how well you can get out of the line of sight or off the level that is being flamed etc.  But otherwise, you could use pretty much any board. Buy some MDF, get it cinto the appropriate size and etch in your own board design etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 26, 2019, 12:15:22 PM
The best thing about the new version - although I must admit I only played about 10-12 games of the 1st version and got the book much later, so I'm quite the rookie on that one - in my book is the alternate activation. I act with a model, you act with one, then I go again. Combine that with the possibility of Group Activation and yes, enough tactical choices.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 26, 2019, 12:42:30 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 26, 2019, 01:15:51 AM
Which figures have been continuously produced in metal? AFAIK, if not discontinued the figure would be re-released as Finecast. I don't like the made to order service, as it's a limited time gimmick...
A fair few Middle-earth figures. A few have transferred to Finecast, or have been replaced by newer resin/plastic sculpts, but Rohan Royal Guard have certainly been available since 2003, always in metal.

Made-to-order is of course not ideal from the perspective of a customer, but the reality is that GW can't possibly have continuous stock of all the figures they have ever made. Either they're gone forever, or they literally take the moulds out of storage, cast however many products are sold, then put them back in storage for another few years. In many cases, I very much prefer it to not being able to buy the particular mini ever again (or at typical eBay prices).

Quote from: Condottiere on August 26, 2019, 03:15:55 AM
Since the latter are no longer available, then couldn't one assume it's remaining stock? 
In the particular case, no idea. In general, no, metal figures still available are not just remaining stock. Plenty have been temporary unavailable, only to come back later. They are still producing metal figures (albeit not releasing new sculpts in that medium), and they have never stopped.

Quote from: Condottiere on August 26, 2019, 03:12:21 AM
Anyone have a clue as to GW's plans with Necromunda gang and tactics cards?
In the latest Necromunda twitch stream, Andy Hoare said they might reprint the out-of-production card packs as a one-off later this year. They are planning to create new packs for all teams too (likely available until they sell out like the first version). They are not necessary to play the game, and plenty of people prefer playing without them (especially when picking them rather than getting random ones, there are some obvious picks that are very strong and not particularly fun). They can play a role in balancing underdogs, but there are other ways of doing that.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 27, 2019, 08:24:49 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 26, 2019, 12:42:30 PM
Made-to-order is of course not ideal from the perspective of a customer, but the reality is that GW can't possibly have continuous stock of all the figures they have ever made.

They used to though...

About 15 years ago I had the privilige of visiting the Nothingham facilities and had a tour of the entire grounds, including the packaging and production area. Mail order still was a thing then, and they had rows upon rows of racks with plastic trays of bits. And individual orders were being picked by the mail trolls there. If they were out of a particular bit, the appropriate mould was picked and a few spins were done to fill the tray in question.

The big catalogues of 2006 and 2007 were the pinnacle of this service they provided. And back in the day, I've made quite a few conversions using particular parts which I got through mail order.

I was disappointed to hear this great service was first diminished and then withdrawn. But I suppose we should count ourselves lucky that they still at least make to order, which is, as you already stated, much preferable to miniatures simply becoming OOP altogether...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 27, 2019, 08:39:26 AM
I remember when they showed conversions in WD and whatnot, then made those bits as a little kit you could buy though Mail Order...I bought some of the kits for Exodite conversions based off of Mike McVeys diorama...never did actually get around to converting them up though.

I'd love to have all the old Mail Order mini catalogues I used to own, loads of classic minis in those I always meant to pick up but never did.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 27, 2019, 03:29:28 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 26, 2019, 03:12:21 AM
Anyone have a clue as to GW's plans with Necromunda gang and tactics cards? Could one play a campaign without them?

Would like to avoid purchasing more dice, especially as I prefer Gamescience ones, so found charts for Firepower and Injury:

Firepower Dice Chart
D6   Result
1   1 hit + Ammo !
2-3   1 hit
4-5   2 hits
6   3 hits

Injury Dice Chart
D6   Result
1-2   Flesh Wound
3-5   Serious Injury
6   Out of Action
 
Are the Scatter Dice the same as the artillery dice that first came out in WFB 4th Edition?

If I'm not mistaken, the two round and flame templates are the same size as past ones from WFB and W40k?

You are correct on the dices.
Templates are standard GW.
Cards are biatch but are floating around the net redone in MTG format (using some mtg card creator). I dont like how they look myself (to colorful but could be printed b&w) but smaller sizes is better for gaming.

And yes you could play campaign without them.
They add level of complication and some cool tactic (and 2 or 3 cards should be outright banned from use and few other decided before the game Click-spare ammo interaction)
but I forget thm half of the time any.
So you can play perfectly well without them - I would suggest applying Underdog rules from whit dwarf instead - as cards are used as bonus for point difference games - but this is not that good way of evening the odds anyway (WD rules are better)

If you have any questions you can PM me to not lost them here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 27, 2019, 06:20:15 PM
http://magicseteditor.boards.net/page/downloads

Honestly, there are better template sets for the cards out there that they could have used to fit the setting, even within MTG.

(https://i.imgur.com/vkCoGUM.jpg)

I am producing these to be the random draw cards for my gang at the moment. Nice, simple and relatively fitting.

The advantage to these cards is that the GW ones are a strange size and don't fit any sleeves well other than their own, of course.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on August 27, 2019, 06:59:35 PM
Quote from: McMordain on August 25, 2019, 06:55:09 PM
Well, you can't go wrong buying one or two Start collecting! sets (if there is one) from the faction you want to play. Also getting their newest Battletome is recommended as well.
The rest depends on how you want to play, going to tournaments or casually with friends.

Thanks. I certainly won't be playing tournaments, and frankly the whole question of playing at all is somewhat theoretical, as with all of my projects. I did go to a gaming night at my local independent store a couple of weeks ago and watched a game in progress for a while, but it quickly became apparent my presence, let alone participation, was not required. Nevertheless, I'll pretend it all has some purpose, as the only alternative would be to give up.

I"m not familiar with the Battletome - is this distinct from the General's handbook? I've seen 2018 and 2019 editions of this - should I buy both?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 27, 2019, 07:05:36 PM
A Battletome cover a specific faction with fluff & rules, while the General's Handbook adds more to the game overall rather than for any one faction. The rules theselves are available for free for all the AoS models and are on each models page on the GW website, check under the Rules tab.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on August 27, 2019, 07:23:23 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I'll do my best.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 28, 2019, 04:05:43 AM
Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on August 27, 2019, 06:59:35 PM
I"m not familiar with the Battletome - is this distinct from the General's handbook? I've seen 2018 and 2019 editions of this - should I buy both?
If you're interested in battleplans and some Open Play rules, then get each GH: General's Handbook 1, 2017, 2018 and 2019. If you're just interested in points values, then only the most recent one will do. I got out of AoS after some disappointment...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 28, 2019, 04:22:27 AM
What an inauspicious start!

My eBay purchases of Palanite Enforcers and Iron Golems arrived...

The shrink-wrapped PE is missing the transfers :-[ and customer service told me to take it up with the seller. Only if I couldn't get it resolved was I to email them a copy of the order details and then would they mail me a sheet "this time". ::) Based on the person's tone, it sounded like GW will be doing me a favor, since I didn't buy direct. lol I'm registered on the GW site and have ordered stuff for store pick up, but will this mean I'll be on a list? What if another box of Enforcers are missing transfers?

My interest in the game has waned... :-I

The Palanite sprues are nice, but don't feel as enthused as I'm for the Iron Golems and I have no interest in playing Warcry - just wanted the figures for pit fighter conversions.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 28, 2019, 08:02:12 AM
You can have my transfer sheet if you want it, I don't bother with decals, don't really think Enforcers should have a chest logo like Batman.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on August 28, 2019, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 27, 2019, 07:05:36 PM
A Battletome cover a specific faction with fluff & rules, while the General's Handbook adds more to the game overall rather than for any one faction. The rules theselves are available for free for all the AoS models and are on each models page on the GW website, check under the Rules tab.

I would like to add that the Battletomes have the rules for the faction specific army abilities, artifacts, spells and various traits, that you can give to your heroes, which cannot be found anywhere else.
As Lost Egg said the rules for the various models and the core rules themselves can be downloaded from the GW site. You can also get the point values from various army building apps, like the Warscroll Builder (https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/) on Warhammer-Community. However, if you want to know for example, what a Mirrorshield artifact does on a Stormcast hero, or what the Regrowth Deepwood spell is on a Sylvaneth wizard, you have to get the Stormcast or Sylvaneth Battletome respectively.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on August 28, 2019, 04:49:59 PM
Thanks to Lost Egg, McMordain and Condottiere. Part of the problem is... I don't know what I want! Aren't there scrolls / cards? Do I need them to feel like a whole person?

I'm expecting the hardcover rule book and paperback core rules any day, so that isn't an issue. Almost everything else is. (BTW, I don't do apps. I don't do phones, tablets, or digital assets in any form.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 28, 2019, 05:04:23 PM
I don't play AoS but if I did I would grab the General's Handbook and print off the rules from the GW website and stick with that, certainly for the first few games. Then if I wanted to really get into the game or wanted to explore the fluff of my chosen faction then I'd pick up the Battletome.

I believe the unit cards are for quick reference so that all depends on if you find these things useful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on August 28, 2019, 08:29:53 PM
I'm a big AoS player, diving into AoS isn't for the faint of wallet i'm afraid but as a new player you can get away with the following:

Rulebook Download - Free
AoS army builder app - Free or if you want all the fancy bits £1 a month.
Battletomb for each faction your playing - £25ea
Latest Generals Handbook - £20
2 start collecting boxes (Amazing value and even more so from a 3rd party seller) - ??? as it varies.

I'd recommend getting the £10 faction specific cards and token packs as they ared a real godsend to speed up the games and the hardback rulebook for ease of flick though and the missions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on August 28, 2019, 09:13:32 PM
The Warscroll Builder is still there if you do not use apps. It does not have the unit stats and abilities, but as we said before you can get those from their respective pages on the GW site.
I stopped buying the Warscroll cards because my friends and I play mostly matched play games, and once an errata or faq comes out for a unit the cards can become obsolete. If you don't care much about this though, it is nice to have them. On the other hand you can print out the downloadable unit rules as well. The tokens are usefully though, I often forget abilities and spells and they are great as remainders :P
Rules wise the hardcover rulebook is enough to get you started. Get 2-3 Start collecting for the faction(s) you like and you are good to go. If you like it and want more, get the latest Generals Handbook and the Battletomes for your faction(s). And more models of course :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 29, 2019, 07:49:37 AM
I haven't been able to stop both puking and laughing over this lanky greasy haired emo piece of poop  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 29, 2019, 08:30:39 AM
I really dislike the head...perhaps there will be the option of fitting the helmet in its place. The big clunky looking claws look off too. The rest of him is ok.

I wonder if this means we will be seeing assault Primaris soon.

Personally I am much more interested in the plastic Howling Banshees.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 29, 2019, 08:42:49 AM
The howling banshee was one of three only great things.
That and the regular sisters and the Rohan building.

Everything else in the NOVA preview thing ranges from Meh to garbage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 29, 2019, 08:55:19 AM
Just spotted that Rohan house on Faeit, it is very nice. I don't play the game though so not for me.

I may pick up a box of the Battle Sisters to use as Imperial Agents for 2nd Ed 40k.

Not really sure about the new Undead faction, they seem to be very heavily influenced by the Necrons; the sculpts seems solid enough but they are just not to my taste.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on August 29, 2019, 09:29:44 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 29, 2019, 08:55:19 AM

Not really sure about the new Undead faction, they seem to be very heavily influenced by the Necrons; the sculpts seems solid enough but they are just not to my taste.

The big swordy guys look like Tyranid Warriors! I’m not liking the faction much at all  :? I do like the big “Prometheus engineer” guy though.

Funny that the Howling Banshee, basically unchanged over decades is the most exciting thing shown (to us oldies at least)  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on August 29, 2019, 09:35:06 AM
Don't fix what isn't broken.

That's what happened to Shrike  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 29, 2019, 10:29:39 AM
I hoped for new skeletons (the ones they sold are made for rank and file and have all same hunched pose)
And they made..
Skeleton-Marines..

Ad:Shrike stupid hair - They said it will be first primaris beaky helmet so it should be included

Whole news page
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/

Uprising book for Munda looks cool (although teased model doesnt  o_o ), and Monsters for Warcry are interesting too.
Rest dont interest me anyway
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 29, 2019, 10:30:19 AM
I agree the prometheus engineer guy is cool but the rest of the faction doesn't do it for me. the mounts are weird and they don't really scream undead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 29, 2019, 10:55:51 AM
More 'munda stuff *drowns in plastic*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on August 29, 2019, 11:11:12 AM
It's not that Shrike's mini marine version looked much better… Despite their "true scale" upgrade, Primaris models are still rather limited in poses. Here's hope for some conversions.

Regarding the new Nagash guys, they seem to be another reinvention of an older range, Khemri in this instance, in order to trademark it. While I do appreciate the experimental spirit (and was an early adopter of Stormcasts and even their steampunk dwarves), GW's latest attempts with submarine elves and now fantasy Necrons have failed to impress me. But each to their own. This new range might at least provide some nice bits for Necrons and Tyranids.

Looking forward to the Adepta Sororitas release. Ordinary battle sisters look largely unchanged, so I'll definitely paint some for Kill Team.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on August 29, 2019, 12:24:19 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on August 29, 2019, 10:55:51 AM
More 'munda stuff *drowns in plastic*

I hope!!

I retract beaky statement..
Unless its a additional non vital component - beaky kead might be hard to do :(
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Nova-Aug29-40k-ShrikeDetail3ngrd.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on August 29, 2019, 02:03:55 PM
Chico & McMordain, thanks again for the AoS advice. I'm about to go to the independent store to see what they have. I've seen loads of stuff there but had little idea what was useful.  I now have a better idea. As for the General's Handbook - does the current edition make earlier ones obsolete?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on August 29, 2019, 03:05:37 PM
Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on August 29, 2019, 02:03:55 PM
As for the General's Handbook - does the current edition make earlier ones obsolete?
Yes, if you need the points for Matched Play...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on August 29, 2019, 03:06:29 PM
I like that Rohan house.
That could be easily converted to just about any fantasy setting.
(But then I like a lot of the GW scenery pieces, they will work perfectly with my current Playmobil adventures!  :D).

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on August 29, 2019, 03:22:38 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on August 29, 2019, 03:05:37 PM
Yes, if you need the points for Matched Play...

Is anything else in the handbooks of value?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on August 29, 2019, 03:45:16 PM
You are welcome :)

Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on August 29, 2019, 02:03:55 PM
As for the General's Handbook - does the current edition make earlier ones obsolete?

Not entirely. The Core rulebook and GHB have four sections, Open Play, Narrative Play, Matched Play and Conquest Unbound (and the rulebook has the Core rules as well).
Open Play has basically no restriction on what you can field as an army. This section in the GHB provides various methods for army building, creating missions and deciding victory goals. The Open war rules in the 2018 GHB are still can be used without any problems. Plus it has rules for aerial combat.
Narrative play is what it's sounds like. There is some lore about a bigger battle or campaign in the realms followed by rules, battle plans and army suggestions to play it out. This part is also usable in any of the GHBs.
Part of the Matched Play and Conquest Unbound sections will make earlier versions obsolete though.
Matched Play has the point costs of the units and these are updated and adjusted every year in the GHB as GW sees it necessary. It also has a section on how to build your army in various point levels (1000-2000-2500), which can have some changes as well. The 2019GHB introduced a new 1000 point game variant as well. The battleplans can be used from earlier versions though, if both players agree.
Conquest Unbound has the Allegiance Abilities for factions which does not have a Battletome yet. These also change between GHB-s.
If you can get the 2018GHB cheap go for it, if not the 2019 version is enough.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on August 29, 2019, 05:33:14 PM
Thanks, that's very informative. FWIW, having had a look on the shelves of the aforementioned independent store, and dithered considerably, I've just bought....the Painting Guide, as well as the Getting Started book with 'free' Stormcast Eternal, which I originally assumed was for the 1st edition, as I remember a similar publication, but is in fact for 2e. I almost bought a set of command dice, but was told these weren't essential, though they sound like a good idea. I asked about faction cards, as mentioned elsewhere, and was pointed in the direction of War Scrolls (?) which I left alone for the time being, at least until I know what they're for. I also almost bought GH 2019, which was £16, as was the 2018 edition.

I should have the Core Book & extras by tomorrow, and will be well and truly overwhelmed.

P.S. Rereading earlier replies, it seems that the War Scrolls include tokens - is this correct? Assuming these are to show current status / condition, I assume the command dice I saw show a unit's orders?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on August 29, 2019, 08:41:42 PM
Warscrolls are the encompassing name of a units stats and abilities. The Warscroll cards are the card versions, for quick reference during gameplay. Warscroll card packs for a faction contain all the cards for that factions units. This means that the number of cards per factions is varied, as there is a lot more Stormcast units than for example Sylvaneth. Also these Warscroll card packs have two sheets of thick cardboard tokens, mostly for faction specific abilities, artefacts and spells. The problem is these packs are usually limited runs and sell out quickly.
The 8 of the 20 command dice can be used to show which units have run, charged or retreated and the like, while the rest are simple d6 that can be used to keep track of command and victory points, or roll for anything that requires a d6.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on August 30, 2019, 07:05:01 PM
Thanks yet again. I've received my rules etc. (from the Soul Wars starter set) but have barely started browsing, let alone reading. First impressions are that the art and photos are very impressive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 31, 2019, 04:11:18 PM
Primaris Marines don't do it for me, but on the whole I'm not a marine fan - except the Nurgly ones - so that doesn't count. Xenos is more my cup of tea.
The new Tomb Kings, really like Samurai-style helper on the Mortach base, the tomb guards ( although I probably will be using/painting  them as evil chaotic elite skellies ) and the cav. is rather fine aswell. The rest, mwoah...
SoB's, we'll see what the units will look like. Have 2 "limited" characters, but I tend to start a small faction of the classic Jes ones....
Ah well, can't love them all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 04, 2019, 01:18:01 AM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on August 28, 2019, 08:02:12 AM
You can have my transfer sheet if you want it, I don't bother with decals, don't really think Enforcers should have a chest logo like Batman.
Awesome! Will send PM shortly...

Was expecting GDubs to deliver, but instead of the transfers, I received a pack of Warhammer Quest Blackstone Fortress Explorer/Hostile cards! Would have preferred Gang tactics cards... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 04, 2019, 06:38:58 PM
I managed to get all of the game components for Blackstone Fortress without the miniatures for £15. I have plenty of decent minis to use in their place.

Not tried it yet though - any good?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on September 04, 2019, 08:45:39 PM
Rohan house looks good, but man those new "forged undead" Oshkosh or whatever are a pretty good example of when GW's newer digitally sculpted stuff falls flat.  They're just so stiff.  They look like awkward old action figures, they were "posed", but the joints don't function like real joints.  So they look like a guy afraid he'll smear his ribcage with whatever is sticky on his inner arm, rather than just holding a spear (or what have you) in a way that looks natural.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 04, 2019, 09:32:22 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 04, 2019, 06:38:58 PM
I managed to get all of the game components for Blackstone Fortress without the miniatures for £15. I have plenty of decent minis to use in their place.

Not tried it yet though - any good?

Nice single player Boardgame, best Ive  played so far but.
Ok game overall. Give it a chance.

Although multiplayer experience could be a little dull IMHO
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on September 06, 2019, 04:28:42 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/GotrekVsTheWorld-Sep5-Warscroll35hbs.jpg

Is it just me, or is Gotrek just a little OP?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 06, 2019, 05:50:04 AM
Pretty standard for Gotrek, after all, he's cursed to be unstoppable isn't he? Never to fulfill his slayer vow? But yes, that does look quite challening. TBH I don't know what other minis are like. If he has similar stats to a bloodthirster then yes, way OOP.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on September 06, 2019, 09:43:51 AM
Honestly no he's not that OP, hard and tough as nails yes though (As he should be).

He's 520pts and rather slow, so in big games he won't make much of a impact and in small/standard sized games he'll won't be used much after the ''New toy'' hype and if he is just avoid/tarpit him.

You have to remember that in AoS most armies now have summoning for free and can just send in free stuff to lock down Mr G.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 07, 2019, 03:56:55 AM
So I started assembling the Palanite Enforcers and noticed a few things...

Box content total:
- 6 Enforcer shotguns
- 6 Enforcer boltguns
- 12 autopistols
- 6 stub guns
- 2 stub guns with flashlights
- 2 sniper rifles
- 2 shock batons
- 2 concussion carbines
- 2 magnacles
- 12 heads in 6 different designs

There are no autopistols. ??? Bits stores list the holstered sidearms as autopistols, but I double checked, they're revolvers/stub guns. Not really an issue, though how are these attached to the body, so they look like they're hanging naturally - assembly instructions and pics are no help? Empty holsters for those wielding stubguns. Part 45: stub gun and flashlight combo looks cool, but superfluous, as all Enforcers have a pair of lights on their shoulders.   

There are only 2 head options, not three, though there's a variety of necks.

It would've been nice to have an open left and right hand, so the concussion carbine isn't always wielded right-handed and pointed upwards and a shock baton on the left or magnacles on the right and bolt gun on the left. I suppose I could remove a left hand from a shotgun and attach it to the carbine, but not sure if I could get the arms to fit. 

Concussion carbines are a must, as there are no Subjugator equipment options on the sprue - will Forge World release upgrade sets? I would like a boltgun, carbine and shotgun which could be slung over the models shoulder or suspended from the hip.

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on September 07, 2019, 08:07:39 AM
Both the bolter arms and the shotgun arms of the Palanites fit the shock carbine perfectly. I’ve done it, I’ll try and get pics for you.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 07, 2019, 01:00:51 PM
Just noticed newsagents have the first issue of the Age of Sigmar partworks magazine for £2.99, you get 13 miniatures (3 Sigmar warriors, and 10 wraiths/ghosts) and 6 dice. Not bad for £2.99 at all.

Space Marine Heroes series 2 is also out (the Terminator collection) though that's £7.99 for one random miniature. If you want a squad of five, its cheaper to just buy the regular squad set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 07, 2019, 01:33:54 PM
Wow that AoS part works sounds like good value...I might keep an eye out for it. Didn't know they were going to do one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on September 07, 2019, 01:37:28 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on September 07, 2019, 01:00:51 PM
Just noticed newsagents have the first issue of the Age of Sigmar partworks magazine for £2.99, you get 13 miniatures (3 Sigmar warriors, and 10 wraiths/ghosts) and 6 dice. Not bad for £2.99 at all

Just shows how ridiculously overpriced GW miniatures are normally if they can give you all that for less than 3 quid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 07, 2019, 01:40:38 PM
Quote from: MagpieJono on September 07, 2019, 01:37:28 PM
Just shows how ridiculously overpriced GW miniatures are normally if they can give you all that for less than 3 quid.

The second issue is £5.99 and has the banshee ghost women on it and a pot of paint, then its £7.99 an issue after that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on September 07, 2019, 01:56:16 PM
Any supermarkets selling this?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on September 07, 2019, 01:58:13 PM
Quote
ust shows how ridiculously overpriced GW miniatures are normally if they can give you all that for less than 3 quid.

Probably the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a while, it’s that cheap to entice people into collecting the magazine


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 07, 2019, 02:28:32 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on September 07, 2019, 01:58:13 PM
Probably the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a while, it’s that cheap to entice people into collecting the magazine

Standard partworld magazine MO, and has been since the 80's, first issue is dirt cheap with loads of freebies, then gets more expensive with less stuff with each subsequent issue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on September 07, 2019, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on September 07, 2019, 02:28:32 PM
Standard partworld magazine MO, and has been since the 80's, first issue is dirt cheap with loads of freebies, then gets more expensive with less stuff with each subsequent issue.

I'm sure they're not losing pounds per issue by selling at that price though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 07, 2019, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on September 07, 2019, 02:28:32 PM
Standard partworld magazine MO, and has been since the 80's, first issue is dirt cheap with loads of freebies, then gets more expensive with less stuff with each subsequent issue.

Not particularly accurate if you look at the Conquest magazines.

What they do is make it a far better idea of subscribing. So splitting a dreadnought over two issues for example. £25 rrp. You pay £15.98. Which is still better than most discounters can offer you and you get two mags in addition.

Now, you may not give much value to the mags. But then that's because you are not really the target audience. The target audience is youngters and people new to the hobby who are given a nice bite-size way of getting into 40k.

It just so happens to be a good way of getting a discount off stuff you may or may not want.

I cancelled my subscription as I'm not playing much 40k anymore and wanted to spend my hobby budget elsewhere. But for each monthly cost, I more than got the values worth. Later issues included the likes of the easy build Lord Felthius and his tainted cohort, which are £25 normally, with one issue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 07, 2019, 10:06:33 PM
Anyone know if there is an easy way to get this overseas?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on September 08, 2019, 12:02:38 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 07, 2019, 10:06:33 PM
Anyone know if there is an easy way to get this overseas?

We seem to get them sporadically in Oz,I’ll keep an eye out if you like?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 08, 2019, 12:28:57 AM
I don't believe it is on general release in the UK yet.

As with Conquest, they seem to do a targeted release in certain localities and via some stores then a general released based on the success that had.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 08, 2019, 01:20:44 AM
Quote from: Blackwolf on September 08, 2019, 12:02:38 AM
We seem to get them sporadically in Oz,I’ll keep an eye out if you like?

I'll keep my eyes open here as well then. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 08, 2019, 05:09:56 PM
I found it in the local Co-Op  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 08, 2019, 05:47:40 PM
You'll find them everywhere, so long as you are in the initial release area. Otherwise you will find them incredibly difficult to come by.

It's not up on the Hachette website so it isn't on general release yet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on September 08, 2019, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: wolfen on September 07, 2019, 08:07:39 AM
Both the bolter arms and the shotgun arms of the Palanites fit the shock carbine perfectly. I’ve done it, I’ll try and get pics for you.

Pic
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo203/foyt21/20190830_091701_zpspi5f8brz.jpg) (http://s376.photobucket.com/user/foyt21/media/20190830_091701_zpspi5f8brz.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 09, 2019, 12:26:48 AM
Quote from: wolfen on September 08, 2019, 06:40:43 PM
Pic
(http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo203/foyt21/20190830_091701_zpspi5f8brz.jpg) (http://s376.photobucket.com/user/foyt21/media/20190830_091701_zpspi5f8brz.jpg.html)
Thanks. How easy was it to remove part of the stock with the left hand? Any thumbs lost in the process? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: wolfen on September 09, 2019, 06:07:09 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on September 09, 2019, 12:26:48 AM
Thanks. How easy was it to remove part of the stock with the left hand? Any thumbs lost in the process?

Depends on the way you go about it. The low pose left hand has a thumb in the way so I couldn’t salvage the bolter itself. Had to cut it into pieces to avoid losing the thumb. The upward pose its easy to remove the foregrip and left hand from the original weapon with no damage to the hand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on September 09, 2019, 05:38:42 PM
Seriously need to tone down the greasy lanky emo hair theme. Looks absolutely pathetic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on September 09, 2019, 05:45:51 PM
Regarding the AoS part-work, I'd be grateful if one of the members who has seen / purchased it could tell me what region they are in. I'm in the East Midlands, which has not been blessed with initial distribution, but I have a niece in the North West whom I might ask to look out for one for me, but I don't want to do so if she's also in one of the barren areas, as she doesn't regularly go into town, I understand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 09, 2019, 06:12:41 PM
A nice collection of fetishes on the accessory sprue and I like the beakie helmet (I wonder if FW will do some too) but yeah those hair cuts are terrible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 09, 2019, 06:47:19 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on September 09, 2019, 05:38:42 PM
Seriously need to tone down the greasy lanky emo hair theme. Looks absolutely pathetic.

Looks fine to me.

Tone of this is aimed for you anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.

I mean, it's not like 40k has a history of dodgy popular culture based hair cuts is it?

Though the use of 'greasy' could be a bit misconstrued as well. A lot of Emo's I know actually look after their hair, it's not greasy.

Perhaps they should go back to the Space Marine standard mullet?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 10, 2019, 07:41:21 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on September 09, 2019, 05:38:42 PM
Seriously need to tone down the greasy lanky emo hair theme. Looks absolutely pathetic.
Plenty of chance to paint it a different way too. The pale face with black hair doesn't need to be the go to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 10, 2019, 05:33:27 PM
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--sVYgsurm--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/ikrkecwu23uhkcbd3646.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 11, 2019, 11:42:46 AM
Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on September 09, 2019, 05:45:51 PM
Regarding the AoS part-work, I'd be grateful if one of the members who has seen / purchased it could tell me what region they are in. I'm in the East Midlands, which has not been blessed with initial distribution, but I have a niece in the North West whom I might ask to look out for one for me, but I don't want to do so if she's also in one of the barren areas, as she doesn't regularly go into town, I understand.

North East
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on September 11, 2019, 11:46:07 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 08, 2019, 05:47:40 PM
You'll find them everywhere, so long as you are in the initial release area. Otherwise you will find them incredibly difficult to come by.

It's not up on the Hachette website so it isn't on general release yet.

Havn't seen it around South Herts/North London area yet, but hopefully it will be as I quite like to get a few of the issue one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 11, 2019, 02:33:03 PM
Not in the East of England either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on September 11, 2019, 02:40:44 PM
Quote from: Chico on September 11, 2019, 11:46:07 AM
Havn't seen it around South Herts/North London area yet, but hopefully it will be as I quite like to get a few of the issue one.

When the conquest magazine was launched the manager of my FLGS said this was the exact issue. Potential new members of the hobby never got chance to buy it as established gamers were going in any buying 5 at a time. Obviously can't blame anyone for this due to the cut price models but wonder if GW have done any research about how many people it actually draws into the hobby.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on September 11, 2019, 06:43:50 PM
As noted above its currently in a trial, rather than countrywide release. So if it's not in your area, then it's because it's not being trialled there, not because people are buying all the copies.

In the past they used to be trialled in the Tyne-Tees TV channel region as it was a small, geographically discrete area for the purposes of the supporting TV advertising.

As someone above said it was on sale in the NE I'd guess that's still the case (though Tyne-Tees no longer exists as s TV region/station).

IIRC it was at least six months after the trial before the 40k version went on sales. Though post Christmas was also s traditional time to launch partworks nationwide.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on September 11, 2019, 06:50:24 PM
Quote from: MagpieJono on September 11, 2019, 02:40:44 PM
When the conquest magazine was launched the manager of my FLGS said this was the exact issue. Potential new members of the hobby never got chance to buy it as established gamers were going in any buying 5 at a time. Obviously can't blame anyone for this due to the cut price models but wonder if GW have done any research about how many people it actually draws into the hobby.
GW don't do any testing. The partworks manufacturer does that.
The model is that they sell huge numbers of the first one, thrn rapidly decreasing numbers of subsequent issues until they settle on a rump of subscribers by around the 5th issue.
The test in the NE will allow them to establish how many they need of the first one to justify the demand for the later ones. Existing GW fans may mean higher numbers of the early discounted editions than other similar partworks, but if they weren't able to factor that in the 40k one would have died a death and they wouldn't be trialling an AoS one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 11, 2019, 08:00:18 PM
Quote from: MagpieJono on September 11, 2019, 02:40:44 PM
When the conquest magazine was launched the manager of my FLGS said this was the exact issue. Potential new members of the hobby never got chance to buy it as established gamers were going in any buying 5 at a time. Obviously can't blame anyone for this due to the cut price models but wonder if GW have done any research about how many people it actually draws into the hobby.

The thing that really irks me is scalpers who buy multiple copies purely to sell at a profit. You saw it a lot with the conquest releases up until it went subscription only. I subbed to that for a while then stopped.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chico on September 11, 2019, 10:11:24 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 11, 2019, 08:00:18 PM
The thing that really irks me is scalpers who buy multiple copies purely to sell at a profit. You saw it a lot with the conquest releases up until it went subscription only. I subbed to that for a while then stopped.

Aye I agree, I actually want mine and will be put to good use rather then selling.

I'm surprised just how good issue 1 seems price savings wise compared to the 40k version though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 12, 2019, 02:45:40 PM
Quote from: TWD on September 11, 2019, 06:43:50 PM


As someone above said it was on sale in the NE I'd guess that's still the case (though Tyne-Tees no longer exists as s TV region/station).



Still exists as a brand and regional news and weather under ITV Tyne Tees.

The local Co-op I frequent (in Middlesbrough) had 5 or so issue one's just piled up in the kids section. If anyone is wanting the mini's I could have a look around and see if any are left?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on September 12, 2019, 07:19:49 PM
Ah, I though it had gone the way of LWT and Anglia.

Sounds like it's still the favoured test bed region for partworks then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on September 12, 2019, 11:38:18 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 11, 2019, 08:00:18 PM
The thing that really irks me is scalpers who buy multiple copies purely to sell at a profit. You saw it a lot with the conquest releases up until it went subscription only. I subbed to that for a while then stopped.

Conquest has not gone subscription only.  My local Asda gets in six every week.  You have to get there quite early to get the better ones, but the less good ones stick around a while.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 13, 2019, 02:33:24 AM
Anyone know where I could find the Badzone Delta - 7 tiles set in the US? Cards going OOP is one thing, but terrain?!? Google's no help... :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 13, 2019, 06:43:15 AM
Quote from: Derek H on September 12, 2019, 11:38:18 PM
Conquest has not gone subscription only.  My local Asda gets in six every week.  You have to get there quite early to get the better ones, but the less good ones stick around a while.

So far as I am aware, no shops here are sticking it anymore and haven't done so for a while. It's the same with most partworks I have seen. So I would say that ASDA is one of a handful of exceptions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 13, 2019, 08:23:24 AM
My local WHSmiths seems to get copies in but thats about it as far as I can see around my way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 13, 2019, 08:28:52 AM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on September 12, 2019, 02:45:40 PM
Still exists as a brand and regional news and weather under ITV Tyne Tees.

The local Co-op I frequent (in Middlesbrough) had 5 or so issue one's just piled up in the kids section. If anyone is wanting the mini's I could have a look around and see if any are left?

Pending shipping costs, I might be interested, as those ghosts/wraiths would be a welcome addition to my undead army... :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 13, 2019, 09:52:03 AM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on September 12, 2019, 02:45:40 PM
Still exists as a brand and regional news and weather under ITV Tyne Tees.

The local Co-op I frequent (in Middlesbrough) had 5 or so issue one's just piled up in the kids section. If anyone is wanting the mini's I could have a look around and see if any are left?
I'd also be interested. With shipping I'm sure it would be a great deal cheaper for me. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 14, 2019, 01:18:47 PM
Sorry chaps, issue one is no longer available. The shop only had two copies of issue two, I bought one and left the other for someone else. Second issue gives you 4 banshees, a pot of white paint and a brush for £5.99.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 14, 2019, 08:39:39 PM
You're a good fellow for looking. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 16, 2019, 08:05:07 PM
Quote from: beefcake on September 14, 2019, 08:39:39 PM
You're a good fellow for looking. Thanks. :)

Seconded  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kommando_J on September 16, 2019, 08:07:05 PM
I tried my local wh smith but could find none, couldn't tell if scalpers had got there or they just weren't in yet. Bizarrely GW itself doesn't sell the damn thing either.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on September 16, 2019, 08:59:58 PM
Quote from: Kommando_J on September 16, 2019, 08:07:05 PM
I tried my local wh smith but could find none, couldn't tell if scalpers had got there or they just weren't in yet. Bizarrely GW itself doesn't sell the damn thing either.
Are you in the North East of England?
Because if not it won't be in your local WHS (or anywhere else) as it's is currently only on trial in the N E.

Assuming the trial us successful it will go on sale across the UK later.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 18, 2019, 10:40:12 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/16/battle-sister-bulletin-part-16-your-first-painted-vehiclesgw-homepage-post-3/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/16/battle-sister-bulletin-part-16-your-first-painted-vehiclesgw-homepage-post-3/)

New Sisters of Battle Rhino on display, looks to be just a new upgrade sprue, rather than the previously shown Mark 1 Rhino. Maybe that will be coming at a later day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 18, 2019, 10:59:16 AM
That's a shame as I do prefer the round doors of the mark 1. Looks cool though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 18, 2019, 09:47:11 PM
I mean ignoring the concept of putting doors through track systems... the round doors were always pants. Way too small and required space marines to crawl out of them!! Or slide I guess.

I vastly prefer the idea that the doors drop down as ramps. Makes exiting and entering the vehicle much more rapid. Plus one door which potentially means it could be more armoured than two.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nordic1980s on September 18, 2019, 10:10:30 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 18, 2019, 09:47:11 PM
I mean ignoring the concept of putting doors through track systems... the round doors were always pants. Way too small and required space marines to crawl out of them!! Or slide I guess.

I vastly prefer the idea that the doors drop down as ramps. Makes exiting and entering the vehicle much more rapid. Plus one door which potentially means it could be more armoured than two.
GW could always go full M113. And they kinda did in 1991, when in Golden Demon awards they gave the 1st 40K vehicle prize to M113-Rhino (http://demonwinner.free.fr/uk/1991/golden_demon_winner.php?categorie=2) vehicle. Please see also 3rd winning position here (http://demonwinner.free.fr/uk/1988/golden_demon_winner.php?categorie=1).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 19, 2019, 06:25:12 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 18, 2019, 09:47:11 PM
I mean ignoring the concept of putting doors through track systems... the round doors were always pants. Way too small and required space marines to crawl out of them!! Or slide I guess.

I vastly prefer the idea that the doors drop down as ramps. Makes exiting and entering the vehicle much more rapid. Plus one door which potentially means it could be more armoured than two.

Fair enough. I've always seen the rhino as being much larger 'in real life' than the scale of the model would suggest so to me the marines would be able to walk out of the round doors; it's common for model vehicles in 40k to be made smaller in this way so they take up less room on the tabletop. One advantage of the round doors is that they could be opened without the vehicle having to stop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 19, 2019, 08:10:13 AM
Then again; I've seen a project online at least 15 years ago, where someone used 10 (admittedly quite a bit smaller) 1st ed Landspeeder crew members as mounted marines inside a 1st ed Rhino.

And it fit!  :o

It was as cramped as a fully loaded real world APC (actually, maybe not even that cramped ::) ) and it required quite a bit of modeling to create an actual interior and opening hatches etc, but it worked out great.

It was the inspiration for my own 1st ed Rhino with full interior and opening hatches, but for the life of me, I'm unable to find the original now...  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 19, 2019, 08:20:05 AM
Wow...that does sound like an impressive conversion, would love to see it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 19, 2019, 09:46:06 AM
I'll have to (re)take some pictures, as that army has been shelved for many years now.

Come to think of it; I must have mentioned it many times here on the LAF, but never actually showed it off. So this might well be the time... ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on September 19, 2019, 10:03:34 AM
Quote from: Daeothar on September 19, 2019, 09:46:06 AM
I'll have to (re)take some pictures, as that army has been shelved for many years now.

Come to think of it; I must have mentioned it many times here on the LAF, but never actually showed it off. So this might well be the time... ;)

Am I thinking correctly that those are Imperial Fists that I've seen on the Bolter & Chainsword boards, they were always one of my favourite space marine forces I've ever seen, you should totally show them again, they'were magnificent
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on September 19, 2019, 10:07:04 AM
Stuff things and doodads
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 19, 2019, 10:28:16 AM
I like the Salamander guy, the sculptor did a good job on the armour. However, I dislike the cable to his pistol...I assume its a fuel line...a canister would have looked much better.

The fist guy is OK though how in the hell is he gunna press the tiny buttons on his wrist communicator / scanner with those massive power fist digits? Maybe it's the angle but the gun on his shoulder looks like someone just took a gun, chopped off the hand and stuck it on his shoulder. As I say maybe its the angle but it looks clumsy. I've also just noticed the gun sight thingy that seems to be sticking out in front of his eye...what if he wants to use that for targetting something off to his left...does he have to rotate around? Couldn't he just have had a bionic eye? Err...does his power fist have a knuckle duster?

The Sisters Rhino looks great, a lovely balance of detail without overloading the mini, unlike the Fist fella. I love the elegance of the wing on the missile launcher.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on September 19, 2019, 10:58:49 AM
I think someone was watching the Star Wars trench run in regards to that targeting scanner.

Just a heads up, Space Marine Heroes series 2 is out at retail now, £7.99 (or cheaper online) per box gets you a random Terminator miniature, they are quite nice poses and sculpts, even if they are already obsolete due to Primaris. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 19, 2019, 11:29:57 AM
Quote from: Mr Tough Guy on September 19, 2019, 10:03:34 AM
Am I thinking correctly that those are Imperial Fists that I've seen on the Bolter & Chainsword boards, they were always one of my favourite space marine forces I've ever seen, you should totally show them again, they'were magnificent
Yup; that's probably them then, as I was still a moderator on there when I started that force, somewhere around 2006 I believe... :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 19, 2019, 05:55:56 PM
Whenever I see a Marine in all-yellow armour with red trim like that I can only ever imagine them as a member of the Angry Marines.

(https://1d4chan.org/images/thumb/c/c7/Jet-Propelled-Rage-Dispenser.jpg/450px-Jet-Propelled-Rage-Dispenser.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on September 20, 2019, 02:22:16 PM
That flaming torch thing on the Salamander is a bit pants! Come to think of it hugely impractical too for most things...
Imagine him leading a company of marines through a forest - can anyone smell burning?! Great for heatseeking missiles to lock on to though!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on September 20, 2019, 06:54:48 PM
That yellow armour pj on the fisting commander is incredible. The battle damage, the intense colouring, very nice. Could make an - imho, because I like the look of evil/Xenos/low grade tech much more - dull looking army like Space Marines quite interesting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on September 23, 2019, 04:37:54 AM
Aw geez, I can feel the price of the cities of sigmar book from here...and I'll probably end up buying it.

The gaming book has my attention as well. Might even be worth it, seeing as how I've only got the core rules at the moment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 23, 2019, 05:20:13 AM
 >:( >:( >:(

So GDub$ discontinued the archers box!?!

Next to the overpriced Greatswords, they were the most human looking sculpts in Ao$. Now we're down to inbred looking State Troops, with faces looking rather simian. Why the hell did GDub$ discontinue anything by the Perrys in favor of this crap back in 7th Edition?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on September 23, 2019, 05:26:36 AM
The archers haven't been there for ages, mate. Could be there's something better coming soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 23, 2019, 05:42:43 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on September 23, 2019, 05:26:36 AM
The archers haven't been there for ages, mate. Could be there's something better coming soon.
They were available last month or the month before. What are they going to replace 'em with, more Smegmarines? I was going to have a rant about the hippophobic nature of Ao$, but what's the point?   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 23, 2019, 07:19:31 AM
This seems like such a delayed response...

I mean everyone knew this was coming in terms of the old world stuff going eventually.

As for Perry, they still exist, they still sculpt. I have seen folks use their historical as fantasy Bretonnians/Empire. Warlord have plastic puffy sleeved chaps.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 23, 2019, 05:20:36 PM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70574930_2549398148414099_5186472601068765184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQkoLpF49T3-sB6cB3PQEdU14YEYFvVxbZ7V76z_zOd2vBVM_bTbX7xCkWU77SFbeBmhDWiSDKs6S6MvAuvy-1mk&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=7308fdf4b9c3da792b38bac693916f72&oe=5E3D4697)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 23, 2019, 05:38:14 PM
That is a singularly unfortunate choice of off-white tone for the armour...  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on September 23, 2019, 06:10:40 PM
Well yes, unless they're now wearing nude bodysuits.

Slightly off-topic, but still GW-related, I made an impulse buy of Aeronautica Imperialis today. All I know of it is from watching a Youtube unboxing video, and a how to play demonstration on Warhammer TV. Beccy Scott must be the Carol Vorderman of war-games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 23, 2019, 07:04:55 PM
Jain Zar looks nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on September 23, 2019, 07:09:30 PM
Though I like long hair under most circumstances, thought something shorter than herself might be more sensible, so as not to drag it through the dirt all the time. Could also be a bit more durable with a single solid pin through the foot-ruin connection point. Some time well spent in photoshop later:

(https://zl4tag.sn.files.1drv.com/y4mk54Gts2H-WjUhpDbc3J2YYgzndjNsiF2Z5NN9Cv15P8Q9kf4dwS6GsEJO553l3DkZO-__ABVcENl6EeA_kfnUCDM2JBXOJ-ohHOqtUEA_ohJVKP-9HMSEyHh8tBmZWQ_nkld8V0Wi8cG17kuxBZce0SGvXQE1vL0dMLfCrCvz0w1vCstvYm-hT5cPLBUdJ8S0jVXxjfcsbJLb5MyOw_D2Q?width=1000&height=1000&cropmode=none)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 23, 2019, 08:42:51 PM
That would have been a far preferable model.  While I'm glad to see plastic Aspects and Phoenix Lords maaaaybe get proper service, the Jain Zar is not a surprise, an exceptionally unwieldy model - this is a trend GW has been going hard at lately.  I already have the Phoenix Lords so I'm not rushing out to buy one, but it's sad to see another model that'll be a massive pain to transport/keep without breaking, etc.

I do think you could fix it (similar to the photoshop), etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 23, 2019, 08:48:26 PM
Hmm...true...now I look at it the hips seem a little odd, though maybe thats just the angle of the pic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cosmotiger on September 23, 2019, 09:15:19 PM
There must be some legal mandate that every version of the Jain Zar model must be as tippy as posible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Nord on September 24, 2019, 01:11:48 PM
I must be getting old, pretty much every new GW release I like less and less, and I find myself muttering "not as good as it used to be". And then I tell everybody on the GW fan thread.  ::)

Insert grumbly old sod emoticon here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 24, 2019, 03:17:42 PM
Nothing wrong with that, their style has changed hugely over the years and there is some stuff I don't like so much stylistically. Others I prefer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on September 24, 2019, 03:41:13 PM
Sorry, me again, rudely interjecting a hopelessly naïve query into a proper discussion. Just wondering whether GW has a department that replaces defective parts, such as the base in my Aeronautica Imperialis set which only has numbers in the altitude window, or are they too big to be bothered with things like that? In short, is it worth even asking?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 24, 2019, 03:47:35 PM
Yep its definitely worth asking. I believe heir line is that if you got it from GW then go to a store or call them up and they will sort it but if you got it from a 3rd party then contact them first.

I've not had problems with GW bits before but I have with Forge World and they always sorted it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on September 24, 2019, 03:51:49 PM
Thanks for the prompt reply. I receive GW's newletter, but have made no attempt to navigate their website for mundane information.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on September 24, 2019, 04:22:09 PM
And it doesn't look like I'll be doing so today, either - site down for maintenance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 24, 2019, 05:18:41 PM
No probs...you could always try to message them on one of their Facebook pages or check the packaging, that might have a customer services email or phone number.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on September 24, 2019, 05:30:07 PM
The site's back up. I'm just composing my email to customer services, after getting distracted and browsing the statement on IP,  specifically requests to make a model based on part of their IP they haven't got around to producing yet. This is because I encountered someone on YouTube quite recently who claimed they allow people to make a single recast "for personal use", which I found difficult to believe. I don't thus far see this specifically prohibited, but that rather depends on a pretty liberal reading of the statement. I'm not a lawyer, but GW can afford the best.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on September 24, 2019, 06:06:07 PM
Well, well - a reply within 15 minutes. It's in the post. Normal procedure, however, is to go to the store, I was told, even if independent, I assume.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 24, 2019, 06:13:15 PM
Ahh, glad to hear it..

I believe that you can make your own minis and cast them for personal use but if you sell them then you're in trouble. I think this is fairly standard with any IP as the minis are effectively 'fan made' and done so for the love of the thing rather than financial gain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on September 24, 2019, 06:18:25 PM
Hmm...that surprises me, if only because a home copy means a lost sale to the manufacturer of the original, assuming it is still in production, of course. In any event, copying a flight base would require a 3D printer, as well as technical knowledge I lack.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 25, 2019, 05:21:13 AM
Recasting existing figures or parts thereof without permission by the rights holder, even if long OOP,  is a copyright violation which GW, and rightfully so, are likely to challenge. Under various legislations, they are obliged to do so to protect their IP.

I therefore find claims that they will generally allow or tolerate any "personal use recasting" highly dubious.

LAF does not endorse recasting in any way, so please cease discussing this aspect immediately.

If you do a sculpt yourself, 100%, of a concept created by GW, this is a bit different, but can be asking for trouble depending on the circumstances, e.g. Chapterhouse miniatures. Again, this depends on the legislation, but using trademarked names and designs is generally risky.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 25, 2019, 06:38:30 AM
OK Chris but I would like to clarify that I was only talking about casting your own personal sculpts for your own use, and not those produced by a company.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 25, 2019, 07:48:40 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on September 25, 2019, 06:38:30 AM
OK Chris but I would like to clarify that I was only talking about casting your own personal sculpts for your own use, and not those produced by a company.

Yes, I saw that, but this kind of discussion usually veers off in the potentially litigious rather quickly, and as they say, "on the high seas and in court, you are in God's hand".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 25, 2019, 09:11:09 AM
Interesting discussion this, always.

Chris, hopefully I'm not fueling any fires here (not my intention), but I clearly recall reading (at least) several articles in White Dwarf in the past (I'm talking early 2000s) where the authors (all GW employees btw) explained how they went about making a specific conversion. And in the process, they explained that they made recasts of certain elements they required a lot of.
Either they simply referred to this as 'I made a cast of (this element) and made a number of these for this project', or (in at least one case), they actually explained the process of making Green Stuff press moulds! Heck; one time, when I wanted a dozen of a very specific WHFB banner pole they only sold assorted, a mail order troll told me on the phone that he would make sure at least one would be included, and that I could then press mould copies to my heart's content!

So apparently, in the past, GW not only allowed the casting of certain elements for personal use, but they actively promoted it! Now, this was before the rise of massive internet commerce and Ebay, and they were still doing mail order for parts. It was, for all intents and purposes, a different time.

And I suppose that the entire message that GW allows single casts for personal use originates in that era.

Back in the nineties and early 2000s, before Ebay and webstores, it was actually pretty difficult to actually flog any recasts you made in any meaningful number. Oh; you could sell a few at your local club(s), but reaching out to the rest of the world was a bit of a challenge. So any recasting done, and it obviously was (GW knew about it and wrote about it themselves) was so contained and local, that it was no threat to GW and in fact, it had been a staple of the hobby for decades, so was just accepted as fact.

But with the massive changes in availability of materials, commercial channels, online instructions etc, etc, I do not find it strange at all that GW (and all the other miniature companies) have changed their stance on the 'casting for personal use'. And I think they're right in doing so too.

TLDR: GW used to allow copies for personal use, but with the advent of internet commerce, they have changed this and do not allow it any longer...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 25, 2019, 11:34:09 AM
Those cans of worms really should have a use-by-date. I'm getting a bit tired of them cropping up all the time. lol

That said, "allowed" may be the wrong term, I think they "tolerated" it back in the day since it was a minuscule problem and, as you say, not an issue with distribution being expensive and time-consuming. But to my knowledge, they have repeatedly acted against "professional", or rather, "habitual" recasters, as well as some instances of C&D letters against fora that actively discussed this.

Many manufacturers may have tolerated stuff, but still I think it is a dangerous assumption, if not downright false to assume such behaviour might continue in this day and age.

Ethical considerations of non-profit-copying aside, it is against the letter of the law in Germany and numerous other countries. I would certainly prefer we did not discuss this in a way that may be construed as LAF endorsing it, which we do not, and this type of legalese roundabout detour discussion is pretty much that, IMHO.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 25, 2019, 12:40:11 PM
Agreed; let's get back to our regular programming...

So; how about those Primaris guys eh?  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on September 25, 2019, 01:06:06 PM
Still don't like 'ole fireback the Salamander
 (I know I probably don't have to put that bit of the kit on if I don't want to but it still is pants imho  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 25, 2019, 01:32:38 PM
Well, there is precedence...

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/fd/b4/8efdb4c83fd0d65d380744d11b2fe3c8.jpg)

 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cosmotiger on September 25, 2019, 05:56:06 PM
Don't mind me, just walking around with a barbeque grill on my back.   lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 25, 2019, 06:43:00 PM
Quote from: Cosmotiger on September 25, 2019, 05:56:06 PM
Don't mind me, just walking around with a barbeque grill on my back.   lol
... hang on, hang on, let me get the sausages out. There'll be time enough for lunch and to beat the orks too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on September 25, 2019, 07:18:53 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on September 25, 2019, 06:43:00 PM
... hang on, hang on, let me get the sausages out. There'll be time enough for lunch and to beat the orks too.

Purity sausages! In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only Wurst!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 25, 2019, 07:23:00 PM
Looks more like Fallout Iguana on a stick!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 25, 2019, 09:54:01 PM
Quote from: AWu on September 25, 2019, 07:23:00 PM
Looks more like Fallout Iguana on a stick!

Could be both, you can never really be that sure in the grim darkness what they have put in your sausages..

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 25, 2019, 10:08:50 PM
Well it's not very grimdark if you have a fricken angry mob torch atop your helm is it? May as well throw in a couple of sparklers and a Katherine wheel to complete the set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 26, 2019, 12:47:17 AM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on September 25, 2019, 07:18:53 PM
Purity sausages! In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only Wurst!
Double entendre or just my imagination! >:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on September 26, 2019, 08:22:35 AM
Well, I've always found it strange that Chapters with animals as their badge are prone to wear the pelts of said animals.

I mean; look at the Space Wolves. 'We venerate the Fenrisian Wolves of our home planet as our totem and spiritual animal. So every one of us has to go out there, kill one in the most barbarian way possible, then flay it and wear its pelt. You know; because we love 'em...'.

And they're not alone in that either. The Salamanders do the same, just like the Celestial Lions, Space Sharks and even my own Fiery Lions (but that's mostly because sculpting a pelt was easier at the time than sculpting a plain cloak lol ).

Makes you wonder about what certain other chapters have to go through to adorn themselves though. I mean; the Imperial Fists are in serious trouble in that regard, considering the Emperor really only has (had?) two hands... :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 26, 2019, 08:58:06 AM
Wolf sausages, Salamander sausages, lion sausages.. eerr - Shark Sausages... no problem - leader cooks them on the field of battle, you never know when hunger might strike.

Would have preferred pies but I guess an oven on their backs might not be  "showey" enough..

Now that's a chapter idea "The Imperial Pie Masters"..

Initiation rituals involving stuffed puffed pastry crusts and assorted other chapter venerated animal parts? Made in a barbaric Venerable traditional way of course.


Oh..

Emperor did/does? have two hands, thats plural, they can be re-used...recycling the 40k way.

Unlike the other chapters, The Fists are not into single use totems.. I guess someone puts them back after every barbaric veneration.

Hat, please.
Where did i put my coat...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 26, 2019, 10:33:17 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on September 26, 2019, 08:58:06 AM
...recycling the 40k way.


Refisting
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on September 26, 2019, 10:57:05 AM
lol to all of you. But mainly Awu
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 26, 2019, 02:00:10 PM
Well there is historic precedent. The Vikings held dangerous animals such as wolves and bears in high regard but also saw status in shearing their pelts. Space wolves are based upon a viking-esque theme.

There are other such examples too, amongst many cultures around the world.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on September 26, 2019, 03:18:21 PM
Stop using reality and logic!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 26, 2019, 05:24:41 PM
I will when someone stops being serious about silly hi fantasy sci fi... ;D

Also, I get the feeling that Kroot are the universes most underrated BBQ specialists.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 27, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 26, 2019, 05:24:41 PM
I will when someone stops being serious about silly hi fantasy sci fi... ;D

Also, I get the feeling that Kroot are the universes most underrated BBQ specialists.

It could be that their taste for "Long Krootox" put off the casual barbecue fans.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on September 28, 2019, 06:46:09 AM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Battletome-Cities-Of-Sigmar-HB-EN-2019 Huh. I was expecting 85, even a solid 90. 70 I might be able to do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on September 28, 2019, 10:43:52 AM
Bit disappointed that they haven't reworked all the Cities of Sigmar kits to fit in with AOS. Still got characters with square bases and freeguild  troops with the old world Karl Franz markings on armour.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 28, 2019, 11:17:05 AM
Beastgrave ghouls are very cool and have bats base!
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/71518311_968477903487189_3818953244495839232_n.png?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQkWJxKajtOm9KX8Vd5KIUHp527MNZxz2xmFnaMThKPFAG8U7k_QlzDzSlISl-NlQCK_doZf3ilNuXYwfjkTkIO9&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=eb025a2c0eb3847d03d3824b244346af&oe=5E35894A)

Very cool, dislike for current ghouls kept me from finishing my Mordheim undead!

And with cool  ghoul chick
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/71384938_1172623566269061_6781463995552366592_n.png?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQmY5N4TfOwrPDzoD0JskkcAEb6e0mTRKyS72_NJPZ6bLWpENGJoLxJrF32tXoR1rxH4_PGAKLN81NycoPGqgCNe&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=bef23f38f10a3969a673aa5604d0d42d&oe=5E3735BB)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 28, 2019, 12:08:48 PM
I like the look of those.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 28, 2019, 04:24:38 PM
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/InStores-Sept28-Grymwatch2dfg-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on September 28, 2019, 05:42:57 PM
The ghouls look great!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on September 28, 2019, 10:57:08 PM
I think they look a bit shite tbh and I love nearly everything GW put out these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on September 28, 2019, 11:32:59 PM
Have you seen previous ghouls? :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 29, 2019, 12:46:57 AM
They remind me of the bad guys in Pandorum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandorum)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on September 29, 2019, 10:03:18 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on September 28, 2019, 10:57:08 PM
I think they look a bit shite tbh and I love nearly everything GW put out these days.

But at least three of them are 'heroic' judging by the 'foot on a rock' criteria!
 ;D ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: driller on September 29, 2019, 02:50:04 PM
those are some crappy ghouls
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 29, 2019, 02:50:26 PM
Quote from: Andrew May on September 28, 2019, 10:57:08 PM
I think they look a bit shite tbh

I was worried it was just me!

I try to be a positive kind of guy, but even for GW these look way OTT and puerile to me. Perhaps what I think a ghoul is, does not match they think a ghoul is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 29, 2019, 05:06:38 PM
I don't like them particularly, but I also don't think they're rubbish.

I think it's the style. I suspect they have gone for a more unique look on a ghoul because of all of the generic looking ghouls that are out there.

I mean, the Muller ones that Heresy have are decent enough. But then you have the mantic ones (though only really one decent head for them and limited poses).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Harlock on September 29, 2019, 07:22:27 PM
Quote from: Mason on September 29, 2019, 10:03:18 AM
But at least three of them are 'heroic' judging by the 'foot on a rock' criteria!
 ;D ;)

The one with the halberd is pulling off a great Bruce Dickinson impression
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on September 29, 2019, 10:26:21 PM
Not just mean that thinks they're crap at least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on September 30, 2019, 12:04:29 AM
Quote from: Cubs on September 29, 2019, 02:50:26 PM
I was worried it was just me!

I try to be a positive kind of guy, but even for GW these look way OTT and puerile to me. Perhaps what I think a ghoul is, does not match they think a ghoul is.

Oh I love OTT and puerile most of the time but the anatomy is puzzling (I see what’s supposed to be going on with the hunched backs but...I don’t know  ??? ) the giant flowing merkins are frankly ridiculous!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on September 30, 2019, 06:53:48 PM
I know they're loincloths, but now cannot unsee merkins. My eyes! My brain!

In other news, the new Warcry faction preview guy looks surprisingly boring, given all the other gangs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: gmanrocks on October 01, 2019, 07:58:34 AM
It looks like Marvel are going to be publishing GW comics. How long before an Avengers/Ultramarines team up?  ;D

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2019/09/30/marvel-games-workshop-warhammer-comics/ (https://comicbook.com/gaming/2019/09/30/marvel-games-workshop-warhammer-comics/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on October 01, 2019, 02:26:24 PM
Quote from: gmanrocks on October 01, 2019, 07:58:34 AM
It looks like Marvel are going to be publishing GW comics.

Fully expecting imminent announcement of the Sisters of Battle Disney princess movie.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 01, 2019, 03:42:45 PM
Just think of the songs for that! :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 01, 2019, 08:24:33 PM
"We're a hard habit to break!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 01, 2019, 08:59:46 PM
Supercalifragilisticemperorshalitosis

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on October 01, 2019, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on September 30, 2019, 06:53:48 PM
I know they're loincloths, but now cannot unsee merkins. My eyes! My brain!
Are they though? They're hairy, don't have any string holding them in place from what I can clearly make out, and their larger brethren, the Crypt Horrors, definitely just have very hairy nether regions(/merkins). I think the current normal plastic ghouls do have loincloths, but those look like.. cloth.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on October 02, 2019, 08:35:40 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 29, 2019, 05:06:38 PM
I don't like them particularly, but I also don't think they're rubbish.

I think it's the style. I suspect they have gone for a more unique look on a ghoul because of all of the generic looking ghouls that are out there.

I mean, the Muller ones that Heresy have are decent enough. But then you have the mantic ones (though only really one decent head for them and limited poses).

I used The Hobbit Goblins for mine (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=51947.msg1252169#msg1252169), and they're better ghouls than GW ghouls (or Mantic ones), although I did use the Heresy Ghoul King as a leader...

(http://www.fierylions.nl/Pictures/ForumPictures/VampireCounts/Ghouls5.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 02, 2019, 08:38:41 AM
Yeah, they work well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 02, 2019, 10:20:50 AM
Love those goblins!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 02, 2019, 10:29:37 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on October 01, 2019, 09:04:19 PM
Are they though? They're hairy, don't have any string holding them in place from what I can clearly make out, and their larger brethren, the Crypt Horrors, definitely just have very hairy nether regions(/merkins). I think the current normal plastic ghouls do have loincloths, but those look like.. cloth.

Hmmm, now I've spent longer looking at ghoul crotches than I intended to..... yeah, I see what you mean. It was halberd guy's left hip that made me think loincloth, could be some string there. Guess we'll have to wait for GW's fancy 360* shots to go up on the website.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 02, 2019, 11:19:56 AM
Well I like them ar least. Probably because when I got the u dead army book back in the 90s I loved the story about Vorag (that wanted to autocorrect to Borat) the ghoul king and really wanted an all ghoul army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 02, 2019, 11:40:06 AM
For those of a saucy disposition, who enjoy a little 'Ghoul on Ghoul' action, I can recommend Brian McNaughton's 'Throne of Bones'. He does have some … unsavoury appetites (as do the ghouls of course) … but it's an enormous collection of stories in a fantasy setting, all based around a necropolis infested with ghouls, right in the middle of a bustling city, with all the ghoul cultists and their secret societies, dark sorceries and unnatural pastimes. It's a great way to get you in the mood (or perhaps out of it) for collecting ghouls.

And yes, there is a Ghoul King!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on October 02, 2019, 10:38:52 PM
I'm between books so I might give that a go for £1.99 on the Kindle. As a dedicated Ghoul enthusiast, I can't see that I have much to lose (including sanity).

On topic, I like those Ghouls. I think a grittier paint job would bring out the best in them (but this is often the case for the modern GW stuff; I find their studio painting style emphasises the overall cartoony-aspects of what can look really gritty and grim from other painters).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 03, 2019, 06:08:29 AM
And perhaps a proper flesh colour would look better as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 03, 2019, 09:49:00 PM
Quote from: Gibby on October 02, 2019, 10:38:52 PM
I find their studio painting style emphasises the overall cartoony-aspects of what can look really gritty and grim from other painters).

You're absolutely bang on with that. I think it could be what puts me off the new GW releases, because they all look like kids' toys to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 05, 2019, 10:53:40 AM
Space Marine action figure - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Bandai-Space-Marine-2019

£75.00, delivery within 270 days :o

Worringly, I am tempted o_o

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99700189055_BandaiPosableMarine01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 05, 2019, 10:58:29 AM
I don't know if its the angle but the bolt rifle looks massive...it seems to be the same length as his leg.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on October 05, 2019, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on October 05, 2019, 10:58:29 AM
I don't know if its the angle but the bolt rifle looks massive...it seems to be the same length as his leg.

He's just happy to see whoever he's seeing right now. ;)

Collectors' item, I guess. I'd be happy with the normal figures, and by the time this becomes available, they'll probably still be (marginally) less expensive per figure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 05, 2019, 12:06:02 PM
Oh its quite massive by the looks of it

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99700189055_BandaiPosableMarine03.jpg)


I'll be honest, I'm mostly hoping this opens bandai's eyes to wargaming as a market, and tries their own hand at it. Their plastic kits are second to none, and quite affordable in the home market at least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 05, 2019, 12:06:46 PM
New NEW primaris marine scale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on October 05, 2019, 12:35:46 PM
Scale creep is getting crazy. :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 05, 2019, 01:31:16 PM
I'm kinda surprised he isn't a Lieutenant :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 05, 2019, 02:24:41 PM
The new bolt rifles are that long. Though with Bandai's style, they tend to like oversized guns so wouldn't be that surprised if it's a tad bigger either.

£75 is steep though. Especially when you consider the value of the start collecting boxes and the game starter sets which are around that ball park or cheaper.

This is really much more for the collector, which I'm not so much of. I like unique models in my armies but at this price point I'm not tempted at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on October 05, 2019, 05:26:43 PM
Branding aside, £75 is a reasonable for an assembled and painted action figure of this size from Bandai...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 05, 2019, 06:09:45 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on October 05, 2019, 05:26:43 PM
Branding aside, £75 is a reasonable for an assembled and painted action figure of this size from Bandai...

I mean yeah, hence why I said aimed at collectors and not so much their usual target audience.

I guess that is why they went with Bandai rather than doing their own, which they could have done, and probably not been quite so expensive or exaggerated gun-ness.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 05, 2019, 08:38:55 PM
Just another form of brand advertisement getting bandai to do it. Smart move.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on October 06, 2019, 09:17:16 AM
They do not mention the scal (they do mention the size at eight inches).

I am guessing 1/12. I initially expected Action Man size (1/6).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on October 06, 2019, 12:53:06 PM
It's interesting to see the re-interpretation needed to articulate the figure.
For me its heading towards R2D2 hotwheels and Darth Vader on a chopper.
I must admit it puts me in mind of those illustrations of  the anatomical exaggerations required to fit into marine armour.
I like it as a novelty but I'd rather spend that kind of money on my hobby .
At the risk of being in a minority .I think it just shows up how naff the new colour schemes are especially once you up scale.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 07, 2019, 06:12:31 PM
I am shocked
This set of cultist is priced in the range I can call quite Ok, I expected more than 20 pounds, and with discounts I will be able to get it for around 12

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60010699018_BSFEscalation03.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 07, 2019, 10:20:02 PM
There is some general shock around the internet about that kit (and another releasing with it).  BSF has been at the top of the "wait, how much?" pile, even by GW standards...so I'm curious why this is suddenly vaguely priced within the realm of reason.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on October 08, 2019, 09:57:02 AM
Obviously a mistake.
GW meant to type £40...still a bargain for the fanboys  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ragsta on October 08, 2019, 11:48:20 AM
700 pages whooooo! Does everyone get a free Primaris now?  ;) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on October 08, 2019, 12:24:52 PM
Quote from: Ragsta on October 08, 2019, 11:48:20 AM
700 pages whooooo! Does everyone get a free Primaris now?  ;) :D

Nope.

At 40,000 replies though...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 09, 2019, 06:28:31 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on October 08, 2019, 12:24:52 PM
Nope.

At 40,000 replies though...  :D
If we get this thread that far, it probably the grim darkness has already set in.  >:D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on October 09, 2019, 07:05:49 PM
Quote from: zemjw on October 05, 2019, 10:53:40 AM
Space Marine action figure - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Bandai-Space-Marine-2019

£75.00, delivery within 270 days :o

Worringly, I am tempted o_o
Looks like you weren't the only one. All 9000 have sold.
Would imagine that means this won't be the last one they'll make - though I imagine it will be a while until a non-Marine/Imperial figure gets made.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 09, 2019, 07:40:30 PM
This item was collectible both to gw crowd and to bandai figure crowd..
It could probably sell 9000 in the Japan alone  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on October 10, 2019, 01:48:20 PM
I was strangely attracted to this, though I really, really dislike Space Marines. As far as I know, no-one here has mentioned another collaboration between GW and another giant. All I know of it is from this painting video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3IFbOHPH18
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on October 18, 2019, 05:56:27 PM
I seem to have killed this thread stone dead. Sorry, I didn't mean to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on October 19, 2019, 08:21:01 AM
Reminds me how it shouldn't be too long until the Bandai chibis are to be released, though I'm not quite sure via what sales channels they will be available outside of Japan. Playasia has a picture of some painted examples, first time I've seen those.
(https://s.pacn.ws/1500/xh/warhammer-40-000-chibi-figures-series-1-set-of-5-pieces-602615.2.jpg?pyuwhf)

Still appear to only be available as random packs; a shame as the only one I might look to purchase is the Sister. Though I do like how the Skitarii looks like a Jawa.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on October 19, 2019, 05:43:04 PM
I wasn't aware of these, and, like you, am most, and indeed almost entirely, drawn to the Battle Sister (assuming that's the centre figure - I'm afraid my knowledge of the GW universe lags some way behind that of most contributors to this thread). It strikes me, as someone who has a hard time seeing the fascination which the 40K aesthetic, in particular, holds for many, that many of GW's figures are almost caricatures already, and that a chibi or other SD approach is not as much of a leap as it might be for other figure ranges. I could even see myself playing with the chibi miniatures, whereas 40K per se holds no attraction for me at all.

In case anyone's wondering why I'm even bothering to be here, I am just dipping my toes into the AoS waters, but find the aesthetic style of the figures not to my taste. I intend to paint mine closer to the grim and gritty style of one of the LAF members -  apologies for not knowing the user name - who has brilliantly demonstrated the possibilities of this approach.

I'm also considering giving Kill Team a go, but if I do, I won't be using GW figures or the 40K setting at all, at least until the chibis become available, if indeed they do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on October 19, 2019, 09:51:29 PM
I think you mean Blasphemia Blackwood, the Gardens of Hecate project. Brilliant indeed. I've found that AoS ( and other, 6th-8th edition GW-models are irl pretty nice, but the GW Eavy Metal Team painted them too clean and Disney to my tastets and yes, then it's easy to look elsewhere. Really got back into them with Shadespire, those models are new stuyle GW but with the right pj  and colour choice theyy can be turned into great figs...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on October 20, 2019, 04:47:21 PM
Yes, that's the project I was thinking of. It showed me that Warhammer AoS doesn't have to be - as you succinctly put it - 'Disney' fantasy.

I've bought very few figures so far, and haven't really decided on a faction. I have a couple of the Underworlds sets - I'm undecided about the game itself, chiefly because of the CCG element and tournament style of gameplay -  chosen purely on the basis that I liked the look of them (skeletons and goblins, though GW of course has other names for them) which is more than I can say for the majority of those sets, or the official AoS ones. Normally, undead would be, so to speak, a no brainer, but the images of the zombies on their box are a complete turn off, as are those of the ghouls, which have been discussed at some length recently.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 20, 2019, 09:18:26 PM
You should see Dark Age of Sigmar group (they have FB group and there are some blogs around here)

Blasphemia Blackwood is part of this aesthetics.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on October 20, 2019, 10:39:16 PM
http://www.exprofundis.com
These are some dark conversions 👍
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on October 21, 2019, 12:34:07 PM
@AWU: yeah, great FB-group. Lots of inspiration.

@Andrew: Do you know the FB-group "The Inquisitorium - The Beating Heart of INQ28". It did get me ( after decades of not liking it ) getting started with Sci-Fi/40K wargaming. Kill Team is a great game, small warbands so you get multiple ones and never get bored painting/modelling them and it's also challenging enough not to get bored to quickly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on October 21, 2019, 01:36:40 PM
Thanks for the responses. I really like the idea of Dark Sigmar. Access to those FB groups is not open to me, however.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on October 21, 2019, 03:44:34 PM
Just send a request to join them. If it's not your cuppa tea ( which I doubt ) you can always leave...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on October 21, 2019, 04:12:45 PM
Sorry, I was less than clear. My Facebook account is suspended. I've no idea why, but it appears irreversible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 21, 2019, 09:10:40 PM
Hmm.. so you are kinda stuck with blogs.

Look at Iron sleet - they do mostly dark 40k but some Dark AoS too
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 22, 2019, 09:22:57 AM
I second the ex profundis and iron sleet blogs. Absolutely outstanding stuff and so inspirational. Nicolas Grillet's blog has some very dark AoS and Inq28 stuff too (and some praise from godfather Blanche as well).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on October 22, 2019, 04:40:29 PM
Thanks, I'll look for those. I assume they're readily googlable. If not, I'll return for precise directions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 22, 2019, 06:45:07 PM
They should be
Those are really strong brands in miniatures blogosphere

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on October 22, 2019, 06:50:01 PM
I've found them, thanks  - in fact there was a link to one. There is some powerful imagery there, though I'm not particularly keen on 'mutant abominations' (they remind me of certain acquaintances.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on October 24, 2019, 12:24:16 PM
New Necromunda "starter kit" has been announced, Dark Uprising, comes with a new Chaos Cult (cos we cant have to many of them these days) and an updated Enforcers gang with new riot shields and heavy weapons. Also included is a whole load of modular terrain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on October 24, 2019, 01:20:19 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on October 24, 2019, 12:24:16 PM
New Necromunda "starter kit" has been announced, Dark Uprising, comes with a new Chaos Cult (cos we cant have to many of them these days) and an updated Enforcers gang with new riot shields and heavy weapons. Also included is a whole load of modular terrain.
Love the look of the terrain and the enforcers, but the chaos cult leaves me a bit cold. Hopefully, that saves me a good wad of cash!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 24, 2019, 01:21:57 PM
I had a quick look and while the cultist champion looked good I'm not so sure of the rest of the gang. The terrain looked very cool though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 24, 2019, 04:57:03 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on October 24, 2019, 12:24:16 PM
New Necromunda "starter kit" has been announced, Dark Uprising, comes with a new Chaos Cult (cos we cant have to many of them these days) and an updated Enforcers gang with new riot shields and heavy weapons. Also included is a whole load of modular terrain.

There are various musings elsewhere suggesting that there might be new upgrade plastic sprues for enforcers. I think someone counted 11 miniatures and you only get 5 on a sprue. As you say, there are the weapons and shields too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on October 24, 2019, 07:53:39 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on October 24, 2019, 04:57:03 PM
There are various musings elsewhere suggesting that there might be new upgrade plastic sprues for enforcers. I think someone counted 11 miniatures and you only get 5 on a sprue. As you say, there are the weapons and shields too.

Yeah i gave the Enforcers another look, my guess is a single regular Enforcer sprue giving you 5 guys that have already been released, then another with 6 guys, which I wouldnt be surprised if they were snap fit monopose like Black Fortress or Killteam Rogue Trader.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 24, 2019, 08:02:33 PM
Those enforcers in the photo are not painted the exact same way. Very simmilar but with variance.
So they used oldmodels (cheap bastards :)

My guess is too a snap fit sprue

Cultist are bit sad after those wonderful Blackstone cultists set
I hope they are multi pose

New band for Warcry is a bit generic but I just need that beastmen for my Purlpe Spire slave hunter beastmen..
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Spiel2019Reveals-Oct24-SpireTyrants9hhsgc.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Spiel2019Reveals-Oct24-SpireTyrants8hhgs.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 24, 2019, 08:09:00 PM
The guy on the left with the flail and sword looks like the pit fighter from WHQ. Purposeful I reckon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 25, 2019, 03:02:13 PM
The Flesh Grinder necro gang would have been more interesting (to me) if some female gang members had been included. I like the apparent mixture of Goliaths and others though.

Was hoping Ratskins would be next.

I can't explain to myself why I am ambivalent about the Enforcers. It looks like an awesome kit, but I just have no interest in buying them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 25, 2019, 11:17:17 PM
Prety excited about this new release (well the ogors really) I like the new Tyrant despite the washing line hanging above him. Not too sure about thered hand paint scheme though Surely if it was blood or paint on them it would rub off onto the weapons. But that's just a paint scheme anyway. New basic ogors would have been nice though which is what I was hoping for.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Feast-Of-Bones-EN-2019?Pmp=contrast
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 26, 2019, 12:09:32 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on October 25, 2019, 03:02:13 PM
The Flesh Grinder necro gang would have been more interesting (to me) if some female gang members had been included. I like the apparent mixture of Goliaths and others though.



There might be.
Female Iron Golems are quite unobvious.

I sadly expect mono pose with variation like Black fortress beastmen

This guy is exact the same
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73237090_10157630365038236_2889356295385645056_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQlv4lSl76rF6HHbpkkPgalomjVT83_VmKWtoamEYfFc_q2pV9hf2-icPUfxPgEZOxo&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=3b376810253e986e839ce8333356eb0e&oe=5E1B025B)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on October 27, 2019, 01:51:16 AM
Could one of the apologists here clarify why Greatswords are now $45 and those subpar halberdiers/spearmen and crossbowmen/handgunners $30? They got rid of regular Dwarfs in favor of Hammers/Longbeards and Ironbreakers/Irondrakes to justify the now $50 tag...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 27, 2019, 02:01:00 AM
Quote from: AWu on October 26, 2019, 12:09:32 PM

There might be.
Female Iron Golems are quite unobvious.

I sadly expect mono pose with variation like Black fortress beastmen

This guy is exact the same
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/PcHBwB5csDRwxcCUaXlnYaFCiZlKBK4tkVfe5ugATZurh72c5KJEjyMwwc5hPHWR5P8AUiEbKqDuZB8J4w4fyos1DzXDspIruQxGDUkeC8hxnvi2T-lorZZMsOm1IEpxdATU6J784lnTDDq80k6e-JOs8Lsge7kdFJFMa7L2Mb18XUIYi-O1xYrNvA6N-w6-MGPa4zm8BL03RrDmV886wvJBfZ10UfhkX1WXkxCOeaB__xiHUK-lnmgKsZ0gaSGSju8UXhZ3_wQD33_p7Gn3HgWVwhg55nYHuTJHrzFN_D6ZB7rK27HFpmT-HHmuWUMZcWEgODcd6iehWQopCiREdb-qUHbxsMUu3Yuw4J-mn8WpFcf-7rFJD1eA8gxAZPNYysi16pt7e6705G1WNWDqyMqNFmRk_hPd0iD0u4XEOQ03I1l5z4ezk1eJ5PmHImNWQfeUpsq2m71hmYIFjxphFvPRFECs7_u08WQK9f4yjjx24-vKMtkORr4Lzg-q58GJ4mMsw9gGvfq92Ult8no_MGsJNRoPCX7AbVV6DAahC_rDvZTizDSEocJTpurQFYQvf2G9IFNY-ysbMmThfJCYEeZ_DdC5TTU3nmA92kNKnRnMtOQHcLr3RQSfGrDIRKL6w7_ywtygb-iDoipZK-3EGDxho2aXSxaHtRzy552TZzktIpnQYFbORA=w1500-h600-no)
Image not working mate. Don't think the forums can parse a google search image link like that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 27, 2019, 06:29:31 AM
That's odd...it was working yesterday and it was definitely the same guy. It looks to be the standard now for GW to double up sculpts in the same kit...given the prices they ask for that seems a bit tight fisted.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 27, 2019, 03:09:11 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on October 27, 2019, 02:01:00 AM
Image not working mate. Don't think the forums can parse a google search image link like that.

Bloody Google changed linking? It was link to my google photosalbum open for anyone.

I changed it for Fb, it should be better now
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73237090_10157630365038236_2889356295385645056_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_oc=AQlv4lSl76rF6HHbpkkPgalomjVT83_VmKWtoamEYfFc_q2pV9hf2-icPUfxPgEZOxo&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=3b376810253e986e839ce8333356eb0e&oe=5E1B025B)

I totally expect them to be done like bBlackstone fortress Beastmen and Psykers.
Interchangale parts fitting pair of bodies.

But this guy is total clone and its the one with most interesting weapon..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on October 27, 2019, 07:00:51 PM
Yes, picture works now!

Looking at the whole group, there appear to be 5 different bodies, each shown three times. A five-figure sprue would be consistent with all the other Necromunda gangs. With the differently sized/proportioned bodies in this gang, not quite all parts may be interchangeable between all bodies (and ruleswise, not all may be able to use all weapons - only the smaller guys (juve-equivalent?) appear to have a pistol.. as it happens, three of them holding it exactly in the same way).
The guy with that friendly looking circular saw weapon appears to have the same main body of the one in the front centre, which means that at the very least the heads should be interchangeable. Difficult to say whether the arms would fit another body, the weapon is held pretty close to the figure.
Even if made into the same parts as the other Necromunda sets, however, there doesn't seem to be too much variation in weapon loadouts for this gang. Unless they reserve all alternative weapons for a Forge World upgrade kit of course!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 27, 2019, 07:47:19 PM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73271714_10157635103738236_6724433564370206720_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQljM-k8IjdfzDtrTN1zdxDl_Yisgn75ZxHVnjkk4qsXYalLqKq2BPqRta9yxJF-p1U&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=97c1d6bfa3f7c5cc1c280de92ae305d3&oe=5E22F88C)

3 big bodies, 2 small bodies
3 same sprues
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 27, 2019, 11:42:10 PM
Arguably not that different to normal gangs then. 5 bodies on a sprue and two sprues. So doubles of everything.

To be fair, if they are much like a vanilla Chaos Cult, then 15 models is decent. Cawdor and Chaos Cultists tend to end up with numbers over quality weapons and items. If you use the right card, you can get at least a couple of fighters in addition to whatever the scenario dictates.

The look suitably nasty. Chaos cult types getting a lot of love at the moment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 28, 2019, 11:05:45 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on October 27, 2019, 11:42:10 PM
Arguably not that different to normal gangs then. 5 bodies on a sprue and two sprues. So doubles of everything.

Yes.
And looking at that Its suspiciously around he Champions and juves sprues they said they will be making someday.
I was thinking that this project became vapor-mini but who knows now.. 3 big guys and 2 juves per sprue sounds perfect
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 28, 2019, 11:56:35 PM
I'm not sure they promised 'sprues' but they did say juve models at least.

Tbh, I'm not that bothered by them. I've never been overly convinced that 'juves' should just be 'young' members of a gang. I've always thought they could equally just be new members who have little or no fighting experience.

There are a lot of things for them yet to cover if what they have said so far is anything to go by.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on October 29, 2019, 12:05:52 AM
Maybe not promise but there were some hints about possibility of a plastic set like that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 03, 2019, 11:27:23 AM
For when you just refuse to acknowledge that less really is more. But know your fan based will literally buy anything you push out your backside.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 03, 2019, 11:51:48 AM
Most of it is over the top for me, but I apreciate the round doors as a nod to the old models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 03, 2019, 11:58:56 AM
Not enough skullllzzzz.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 03, 2019, 12:43:21 PM
The first one is far more OTT than the previous two versions. This being the last:
(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/113494355642_/Immolator-of-Sisters-of-Battle-soldier-painted-action.jpg)

The 2nd one though, is arguably better than it's predecessor, though it is very subjective:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/d4YAAOSw-FRcJJvZ/s-l400.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on November 03, 2019, 12:54:55 PM
It depicts the problem of driving tanks through a church quite well though...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on November 03, 2019, 01:31:07 PM
Some interesting beasties coming out for Warcry too (as well as new Chaos Warriors and Knights):
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/02/new-reveals-chaos-sororitas-tanks-and-moregw-homepage-post-1/

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/BloodandGlory-Nov02-Agroid8sdfed.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/BloodandGlory-Nov02-Spirhinx2wsd.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 03, 2019, 01:58:08 PM
I would never have guessed that Mindstealer Sphiranx  is a warhammer model, but I do quite like it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 03, 2019, 02:28:56 PM
Yeah, it should be 30% smaller and Escher Chymerix :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on November 03, 2019, 02:30:39 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on November 03, 2019, 11:27:23 AM
For when you just refuse to acknowledge that less really is more. But know your fan based will literally buy anything you push out your backside.
::)

It perfectly possible to express personal dislike for an object without at the same time sneeringly condemning people who have a different opinion to yours.
Maybe you could give that a try sometime?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 03, 2019, 02:45:45 PM
Quote from: AWu on November 03, 2019, 02:28:56 PM
Yeah, it should be 30% smaller and Escher Chymerix :P

Is this like the Brown Bear Vs Black Bear thing again?  lol Only, I can assure you, after a very close encounter (four feet at most) with a Black bear, at that moment - when your brain is trying to decide what course of action your basic instinct should take, the thought that there is a larger version of it out there never crosses your mind...  ;D :D Luckily, these Brown bears just wanted to eat candy from the trash can due to the Pocono mountains becoming colder sooner that year and so foraging further down into warmer climates. They were friendly enough, at least, it didn't tear any of my limbs from my body and let me go back to bed with my body intact.

Quote from: TWD on November 03, 2019, 02:30:39 PM
::)

It perfectly possible to express personal dislike for an object without at the same time sneeringly condemning people who have a different opinion to yours.
Maybe you could give that a try sometime?
;D lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on November 03, 2019, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: TWD on November 03, 2019, 02:30:39 PM
::)

It perfectly possible to express personal dislike for an object without at the same time sneeringly condemning people who have a different opinion to yours.
Maybe you could give that a try sometime?

Yeah that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on November 03, 2019, 03:01:12 PM
Quote from: YPU on November 03, 2019, 01:58:08 PM
I would never have guessed that Mindstealer Sphiranx  is a warhammer model, but I do quite like it.

It really reminds me of Kingdom Death.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 03, 2019, 07:50:16 PM
Damn, they previewed new Munda box for soon release.. I hoped to prolong this genormous drain on my resources closer to the xmass  :o

But I want this terrain badly!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 03, 2019, 08:39:18 PM
Those Old Time Revival land raiders are quite hilarious to me. Silly as all get out... shamelessly, hopelessly, gloriously over the top, but that doesn't bother me in the least. The combination pipe organ and missile-launcher is especially ridiculous and I love it.

Who says only Orky stuff is allowed to be funny? 

More importantly, this is a sign of designers who are clearly having a lot of fun doing what they're doing, and (barring horrible rules or similar that makes a game outright unplayable) there are few qualities of a game that attract me more than signs that the designers are having entirely too much gleeful fun while making it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on November 03, 2019, 09:57:03 PM
These are a real surprise - in that they are keeping the old WFB aesthetic rather than replacing them with something new and ridiculous. Not too over the top, that old classic look re-done in more dynamic poses more suitable for a skirmish game.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/BloodandGlory-Nov02-Warriors3sdg.jpg)

And the knights are great too, some of them have very cool (and realistic) poses...

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/BloodandGlory-Nov02-Knights9sdcvx.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 03, 2019, 10:41:58 PM
I like those! As ever, the studio paintwork is extremely neat and crisp which gives the figures an almost cartoony aspect. I suspect that with a grittier painting style these will look perfect!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 04, 2019, 06:25:53 AM
Those Chaos Warriors would look great for HeroQuest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 04, 2019, 07:41:51 AM
Wow, the skull to mini ratio is in favour of the minis!
I do like those and the heroquest call is a good one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on November 04, 2019, 09:35:29 AM
the chaos warriors kind of remind me of the black knights from the Excalibur movie.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on November 04, 2019, 11:25:34 AM
Quote from: Gibby on November 03, 2019, 10:41:58 PM
I like those! As ever, the studio paintwork is extremely neat and crisp which gives the figures an almost cartoony aspect. I suspect that with a grittier painting style these will look perfect!

When I look at these GW images, all I can think is 'Photoshop'. I recognise there's a painting style and set of techniques that can create this kind of look, and I appreciate they probably employ tip-top painters to create their showpiece models. But this highly attentuated, hyper-sharp-edge-highlighting style just doesn't look real to me on these models. It's too consistent and clean across every single thing they put out. I would stake money that these images are heavily treated - if indeed much of the 'painting' itself isn't done with software and pixels rather than brushes and liquid paints. Accepting that serious GW-painters of the Golden Demon fraternity can achieve extraordinarily high end results, I'd be interested to see some of these showcase models in the flesh. I bet they don't look quite like this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on November 04, 2019, 11:35:37 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 03, 2019, 08:39:18 PM
Those Old Time Revival land raiders are quite hilarious to me. Silly as all get out... shamelessly, hopelessly, gloriously over the top, but that doesn't bother me in the least. The combination pipe organ and missile-launcher is especially ridiculous and I love it.

I have to say, I love the pipe organ Rhino too. I'd love to de-missile it and make it a mobile pulpit for an imperial preacher. Ludicrously baroque, but for me that's what 40k is all about!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on November 04, 2019, 11:46:40 AM
Quote from: Captain Blood on November 04, 2019, 11:25:34 AM
When I look at these GW images, all I can think is 'Photoshop'. I recognise there's a painting style and set of techniques that can create this kind of look, and I appreciate they probably employ tip-top painters to create their showpiece models. But this highly attentuated, hyper-sharp-edge-highlighting style just doesn't look real to me on these models. It's too consistent and clean across every single thing they put out. I would stake money that these images are heavily treated - if indeed much of the 'painting' itself isn't done with software and pixels rather than brushes and liquid paints. Accepting that serious GW-painters of the Golden Demon fraternity can achieve extraordinarily high end results, I'd be interested to see some of these showcase models in the flesh. I bet they don't look quite like this.

The image is obviously photo-shopped in the sense that each mini is photographed and then stitched together to create a whole but photo-shopping the mini paint jobs?  That's quite a stretch and quite an accusation to make.  I know GW has sunk low in many people's eyes over the years but ... wow, that is really lowering the bar for bad behavior.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on November 04, 2019, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: jon_1066 on November 04, 2019, 11:46:40 AM
The image is obviously photo-shopped in the sense that each mini is photographed and then stitched together to create a whole but photo-shopping the mini paint jobs?  That's quite a stretch and quite an accusation to make.  I know GW has sunk low in many people's eyes over the years but ... wow, that is really lowering the bar for bad behavior.

Well I could absolutely be wrong, but to my eye the finish looks just too sharp and smooth to be handpainted plastic. I don't think it would be that surprising, would it? I don't even think it's bad behaviour. I doubt there's a production-based business on the face of the planet that doesn't retouch the brochure images of its products - from cars to toys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 04, 2019, 12:48:11 PM
The edge highlights on the black armour are very very crisp. Photoshopped or not, it's not a style I like too much because it looks so artificial. I prefer more subtlety myself!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 04, 2019, 05:09:02 PM
I'd argue it's a painting style that fits the product, that needs to be super-crisp, formulaic and lacking nuance because -

- the models themselves are very very busy, so the paintjob needs to display the model and 'pop' the details,
- it presumably needs to done quickly so painters can churn out the releases to tight schedules,
- it needs to be a single style that all their painters can adopt as a consistent process and a uniform look.

I admire it for what it does and the skill of the painters to achieve such a dramatic finish, but aesthetically it's not a painting style that appeals to me.

As for photoshopping … well, it's a bit like plastic surgery isn't it? What level is acceptable and when does it become 'cheating'? Most of us who photograph our mins will tweak the colour and contrast and such, perhaps even remove bits of fluff and imperfections that the eye has missed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on November 04, 2019, 05:23:18 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on November 04, 2019, 12:38:31 PM
I doubt there's a production-based business on the face of the planet that doesn't retouch the brochure images of its products - from cars to toys.

Playmates?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 04, 2019, 07:57:53 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on November 04, 2019, 12:38:31 PM
Well I could absolutely be wrong, but to my eye the finish looks just too sharp and smooth to be handpainted plastic. I don't think it would be that surprising, would it? I don't even think it's bad behaviour. I doubt there's a production-based business on the face of the planet that doesn't retouch the brochure images of its products - from cars to toys.

Personally I think they are paint jobs. It's super easy to clean up edge highlights like these by going back in near the edge with black again to tidy any slips.

It's the plastic bit I wouldn't be surprised about. I'm guessing to 3d sculpt them they sculpt a whole figure then break it down into parts to do the sprues - maybe someone else can confirm this. If that's the case, it wouldn't surprise me if these are perhaps 3d prints of the sculpts. After all, it isn't a new thing for companies to have more crisply detailed resins cast for painters use or master castings if metal, just to ensure those mini's you see in the mags, brochures or web-stores are top notch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 04, 2019, 09:20:33 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on November 04, 2019, 07:57:53 PM
It's the plastic bit I wouldn't be surprised about. I'm guessing to 3d sculpt them they sculpt a whole figure then break it down into parts to do the sprues - maybe someone else can confirm this. If that's the case, it wouldn't surprise me if these are perhaps 3d prints of the sculpts. After all, it isn't a new thing for companies to have more crisply detailed resins cast for painters use or master castings if metal, just to ensure those mini's you see in the mags, brochures or web-stores are top notch.

3d printed pre-production prototypes is really quite possible yes. The prototypes are made anyway before the plastic mould anyway so it speeds up the process a bit. Packaging can be designed while the moulds get cut etc.

I have no insight into GW processes, but I'd think the part breakdown is done somewhere between concept sketches and target designs to make sure they don't end up with good 3d sculpts that can be broken down to fitting parts. (though I assume their sculptors know a fair bit about that as well!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 05, 2019, 02:15:44 AM
They could even be the three ups they use to make the molds from that way achieving a high quality level of painting would be much more achievable. Fine details are much easier to paint when the size is maximised.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Keith on November 05, 2019, 07:59:26 AM
FWIW I've been lucky enough to have first-hand contact with a lot of the studio painted releases over the last year (it's a work thing) and frighteningly the photos they use are really very honest. You can also see a lot of original studio work in the museum there too. The Necromunda figures, for example, are mind-blowing in real life. They also showcase the latest releaees in the Warhammer World shop and in those cases they can use the studio painted models too.

I'm pretty confident that in most cases touch-ups are limited to the usual level-correction and colour balancing etc.

Occaisionally they paint 3D prints but I understand it's quite rare and more typically for one-offs, very early previews or models that sit outside of the release schedule for some reason. The first Sister of Battle 'teaser' model was one and people did actually spot some print-lines on the bolter. Subtle but there. Final production plastic will usually be smoother than a test print. Development lead-times can be 2 years+ so there are plastic production models available for the painting team well in advance.





Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on November 05, 2019, 11:42:32 AM
Quote from: beefcake on November 05, 2019, 02:15:44 AM
They could even be the three ups they use to make the molds from that way achieving a high quality level of painting would be much more achievable. Fine details are much easier to paint when the size is maximised.

Do they still use three-ups and a pantographic rig to cut the moulds? These days, I'd think they'd directly machine them from a CAD-based mould design file using CNC?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on November 05, 2019, 03:08:53 PM
Love those chaos warriors!!! A nice gritty more realistic paint job will make them look a lot better!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 05, 2019, 06:08:39 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on November 05, 2019, 11:42:32 AM
Do they still use three-ups and a pantographic rig to cut the moulds? These days, I'd think they'd directly machine them from a CAD-based mould design file using CNC?

Probably spot on there. Some smaller companies still use it with traditional sculpting
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 05, 2019, 06:35:48 PM
I know the Perry's paint their 3-ups to advertise upcoming releases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 05, 2019, 10:20:34 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on November 05, 2019, 11:42:32 AM
Do they still use three-ups and a pantographic rig to cut the moulds? These days, I'd think they'd directly machine them from a CAD-based mould design file using CNC?

I've actually heard of it going the other way round at some companies. Hand sculpt a 3 up, 3d scan it and clean it up in CAD and CNC from there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on November 05, 2019, 11:16:39 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on November 05, 2019, 11:42:32 AM
Do they still use three-ups and a pantographic rig to cut the moulds? These days, I'd think they'd directly machine them from a CAD-based mould design file using CNC?
They've been going straight from the CAD to mould for years, in fact I remember hearing somewhere that the design program they use is Specifically for creating moulds.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on November 06, 2019, 03:26:02 PM
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/SubjFocus-Nov08-Ram-j43lx.jpg)

I'm the only one who thinks that underslug grenade launcher is more dangerous to the user than to any opposition?  lol
Seems like a really bad design to me...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 06, 2019, 03:30:36 PM
 lol lol lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 06, 2019, 03:43:20 PM
Is it supposed to be a launcher of some sort?  I thought it was shotgun shells used to "fire" the ram?  Maybe they painted the barrel there by accident :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on November 06, 2019, 03:50:26 PM
Quote from: McMordain on November 06, 2019, 03:26:02 PM
Seems like a really bad design to me...

As a weapon, probably, but sometimes you just need a combined bottle opener / staple remover.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cosmotiger on November 06, 2019, 04:28:39 PM
Quote from: Elbows on November 06, 2019, 03:43:20 PM
I thought it was shotgun shells used to "fire" the ram?

If that's the case, they put the shells in the wrong way!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 06, 2019, 07:57:16 PM
Actually looking closer I think they are nerf darts.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on November 06, 2019, 09:27:34 PM
 lol
Now thats all I can see.
Strapped to a really aggressive sowing machine
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on November 06, 2019, 09:33:04 PM
Quote from: tin shed gamer on November 06, 2019, 09:27:34 PM
lol
Now thats all I can see.
Strapped to a really aggressive sowing machine
'Tis probably a Singer  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 06, 2019, 10:47:37 PM
That's a weird design for sure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 07, 2019, 10:00:46 AM
Quote from: Blackwolf on November 06, 2019, 09:33:04 PM
'Tis probably a Singer  ;)

Its a strange cross over of brands, but I'm happy to see GW branch out a bit.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on November 07, 2019, 11:34:04 AM
Outside of the scenery I'm really not sold on the Uprising set, I dont need another 5 base Enforcers, the Corpse Grinder cult look far to 40K Space Marine ish than Underhive. I prefer the cultists we have already had to these newer ones. Would have really preferred Ratskins vs Spire brat gangs  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on November 07, 2019, 05:35:39 PM
Quote from: tin shed gamer on November 06, 2019, 09:27:34 PM
lol
Now thats all I can see.
Strapped to a really aggressive sowing machine

It doesn't look particularly agricultural to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on November 07, 2019, 05:41:05 PM
 ::) sewing machine. Apparently my predictive text was born on a farm.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on November 07, 2019, 07:27:49 PM
Quote from: McMordain on November 06, 2019, 03:26:02 PM
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/SubjFocus-Nov08-Ram-j43lx.jpg)

I'm the only one who thinks that underslug grenade launcher is more dangerous to the user than to any opposition?  lol
Seems like a really bad design to me...
The rounds look like they would not fit through the prongs of the staple remover.

Without servo assist the recoil would probably push the barrel down as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on November 07, 2019, 07:32:40 PM
Quote from: tin shed gamer on November 06, 2019, 09:27:34 PM
Strapped to a really aggressive sewing machine
Or a jigsaw (power tool not a plaything).

Of course there was the Nail Gun in "The Wire".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on November 07, 2019, 07:33:31 PM
Quote from: YPU on November 07, 2019, 10:00:46 AM
Its a strange cross over of brands, but I'm happy to see GW branch out a bit.  lol
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 07, 2019, 09:18:21 PM
I don't know, I guess working in the garment industry is more dangerous in the future, and seamstresses have to use much heavy equipment to get the job done.

Really how else are those sisters of whatever going to get there metal robes sewn up ?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 08, 2019, 08:10:33 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on November 07, 2019, 09:18:21 PM
I don't know, I guess working in the garment industry is more dangerous in the future, and seamstresses have to use much heavy equipment to get the job done.

Really how else are those sisters of whatever going to get there metal robes sewn up ?

It's certainly a hard habit to break.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on November 08, 2019, 08:25:38 AM
 lol  ::)

The more I look at the figure the more I get the feeling someone wasn't enjoying their work.Some of the brush strokes are more, going through the motions rather than considered.
Plus the nerf darts and the transformers knee pad.
Definitely feels like someone is seeing what they can get away with.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daniel36 on November 08, 2019, 09:42:13 AM
Yeah, that weapon looks odd, but nothing you can't cut away. Looks like an easy "conversion" to make it look more realistic.

The new box is a bit too expensive for me, but there will probably be a few folks who will buy it for the scenery alone so I can buy the gangs and books off of someone when the time comes.

The scenery looks great, but I have plenty of that. I do quite like that they have different Enforcers than the regular boxed set. They look great, aside from that odd looking grenade launcher.

The Cult gangers are a bit boring, and I already have the regular older Cultists for that, so I might just skip those entirely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitfox on November 08, 2019, 11:30:18 AM
I'm a bit concerned he appears to have loaded his shells the wrong way round, just as well he's got the kneepad really!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on November 08, 2019, 02:27:29 PM
::)

In today’s Times (Paywall, sorry, but you can read the first para... )

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/games-workshop-marches-on-with-shares-up-15-rdb25njgd

In summary, at £1.7 billion, GW now has a bigger market capitalisation (The total value of shares in the company) than major UK high street brands like Sports Direct and Dixons Carphone Warehouse.
Their stock price has risen by 700% in the last three years :o
The word ‘bubble’ springs to mind, but whatever it is they’re doing, the market and analysts clearly believe they’re going to keep making vast profits for the rest of time...

First half sales of £140M, and pre tax profits of £55M.

Someone somewhere sure is buying a shitload of their product...

Got a spare 50 quid? Forget buying a model, buy one share in Games Workshop Inc. instead ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on November 08, 2019, 03:45:34 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on November 08, 2019, 02:27:29 PM

Got a spare 50 quid? Forget buying a model, buy one share in Games Workshop Inc. instead ;)

The word 'spare' is unknown to me, at least when paired with 'quid' or '£', but I would in any case be loath to acquire something, however potentially profitable,  that would inevitably be adorned with unnecessary adornments such as skulls / z, chains and spikes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on November 08, 2019, 03:56:23 PM
lol

Fair point.

I wonder if they have skullz on their share certificates? I mean they put them on everything else ::) ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on November 08, 2019, 05:04:47 PM
Mine has an imperial Eagle on it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on November 08, 2019, 06:39:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on November 08, 2019, 03:56:23 PM
lol

Fair point.

I wonder if they have skullz on their share certificates? I mean they put them on everything else ::) ;)

I was actually thinking they'd not only be part of the print design, but somehow physically present for the full GrimdarkTM effect. We know they've got  the moulding technology for it, and their chemists, having presumably completed their paint brewing duties for the time being, may well be assigned to impregnating the certificates with NurgleTM rot. (Or something. I actually have little idea of the GW mythos or its official terminology. Apologies to everyone for my undoubted errors, any unintended misrepresentation of Games Workshop  PLC and its intellectual properties, etc.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shahbahraz on November 08, 2019, 09:57:27 PM
Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on November 08, 2019, 06:39:40 PM
I was actually thinking they'd not only be part of the print design, but somehow physically present for the full Grimdark TM effect. We know they've got  the moulding technology for it, and their chemists, having presumably completed their paint brewing duties for the time being, may well be assigned to infusing the certificates with nurgle rot. (Or something. I actually have little idea of the GW mythos or its official terminology. Apologies to everyone for my undoubted errors, any unintended misrepresentation of Games Workshop  PLC and its intellectual properties, etc.)

You know they have form for sending the boys around don't you? ;-) 

(Though Nottingham 'hard-men' tend to lose cred when you hear the accent.. it's like being threatened with a cream bun by someone in a crumpet shop in Devon.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on November 09, 2019, 05:17:48 PM
Well, I'm from Leicester. Do I need to say more?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 09, 2019, 08:13:07 PM
Those poor Aussies.
Having to pay £263 for the £175 necro-rip off-munda box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 09, 2019, 09:43:28 PM
Wait to you see what the New Zealanders have to pay...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 09, 2019, 09:44:51 PM
Lol. I'm a kiwi and was just going to say. 286 pounds... I wouldn't pay NZ$286! I'd probably only pay about $100 for that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 09, 2019, 10:31:27 PM
It's an expensive set. A rough totting up of costs of stuff seems to bring it out to be about right going by their prices.

Not a rip off. Well, not unless you think GW's prices are generally a rip off. They are one of the most expensive on the market, but then there isn't anyone quite as big or high street present as them either.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 09, 2019, 10:46:44 PM
Tis a heftily priced set there. Still, I'm sure it'll do well in its market. For myself, I'd be more tempted to get stuck into my vast array of old Necromunda PDFs and look at alternative mini/terrain ranges were I to get into the game. Ultimately, it's all down to what you want and how much you're prepared to pay. Given the news around GW shares, they're clearly drawing in more than they're turning away!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 10, 2019, 01:34:53 AM
2 weeks of groceries for a family of five, or 26 miniatures and some terrain, cards and book. Just trying to put some perspective on the relative pricing there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on November 10, 2019, 02:20:56 AM
I have to agree .When prices start looking more like phone numbers . I'd rather spend the money on real life.

TWD.
I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure DDAY put paid to those.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 10, 2019, 12:05:25 PM
beefcake - why not both? 105 packs of 2 minute noodles (for 3 weeks of eating) from PAK'nSAVE?

Sure, you're probably going to lose a few kilos and the youngest isn't going to make it - but you get Games Workshop miniatures in the end!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 10, 2019, 01:28:50 PM
The new Necro is more expensive than I thought it would be, given that everyone who really wants Enforcers already owns them. If this were the first we've seen of the Enforcers, I imagine this would have sold like hotcakes.
Though on second thoughts, I guess the terrain is the selling point. It does look lovely.

Beefcake - I feel your pain. It was only when I moved from NZ to the UK that I felt able to get back into the hobby at all!
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 11, 2019, 04:41:11 AM
Quote from: von Lucky on November 10, 2019, 12:05:25 PM
beefcake - why not both? 105 packs of 2 minute noodles (for 3 weeks of eating) from PAK'nSAVE?

Sure, you're probably going to lose a few kilos and the youngest isn't going to make it - but you get Games Workshop miniatures in the end!
Hmmm. Kids could go feral for a few weeks. Stick them out in a paddock somewhere for a few weeks feasting on raw sheep... Tempting...

Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 10, 2019, 01:28:50 PM
The new Necro is more expensive than I thought it would be, given that everyone who really wants Enforcers already owns them. If this were the first we've seen of the Enforcers, I imagine this would have sold like hotcakes.
Though on second thoughts, I guess the terrain is the selling point. It does look lovely.

Beefcake - I feel your pain. It was only when I moved from NZ to the UK that I felt able to get back into the hobby at all!
 

Ebay's still my friend. I can get UK prices with free shipping, just takes patience for it to arrive though. I'm not interested in this latest Necromunda anyway so it doesn't really bother me. I can't imagine them selling a lot down this way though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 11, 2019, 02:16:18 PM
Not quite sure if the rulebook from the new Necromunda starter set is a revised edition of the first one or just about the same with some edited mistakes. Got both the original and hardbacks but as the price from this new set is a bit more than I'm willing to pay ( only want the cultists and probably the terrain ) it all comes down to the rulebook. Do I need it or not?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 12, 2019, 03:37:22 AM
At first I thought the Citadel Painting Handle 5 pack at $40 (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Painting-Handle-Box-Of-5-2019) was good value, but then I remembered paying $8/handle over a year ago and now these are $10 each!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 12, 2019, 09:07:40 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on November 11, 2019, 02:16:18 PM
it all comes down to the rulebook. Do I need it or not?

I dont think that you need it if you have hardback.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 12, 2019, 11:07:05 PM
OK, thanks. Then I'm probably better off buying a box of those Flesh Cultist and maybe a few pieces of terrain...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 12, 2019, 11:46:05 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on November 12, 2019, 11:07:05 PM
OK, thanks. Then I'm probably better off buying a box of those Flesh Cultist and maybe a few pieces of terrain...

In all honesty, if you are willing to put in the effort, I would go look at what the various MDF cutters have on offer that is comparable terrain wise. TTCombat do a few options and it'll fill your table at a better rate for less than the GW stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 13, 2019, 01:04:28 AM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on November 11, 2019, 02:16:18 PM
Not quite sure if the rulebook from the new Necromunda starter set is a revised edition of the first one or just about the same with some edited mistakes. Got both the original and hardbacks but as the price from this new set is a bit more than I'm willing to pay ( only want the cultists and probably the terrain ) it all comes down to the rulebook. Do I need it or not?
It's revised AFAIK, but not complete, just like the Underhive book, and more than likely will be out of date in a year or two! According to the fine folks at YalTribe (https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/new-models-incoming.8526/page-97#post-212333), you'll need the rulebook in the box to play the campaign, as it's not in the Book of Ruin.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 13, 2019, 01:08:16 AM
This been covered yet?

At least were being treated to another Age of $igmar model, though I don't expect her to go for less than $30...

https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/new-models-incoming.8526/page-97#post-212281 (https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/new-models-incoming.8526/page-97#post-212281)

(https://yaktribe.games/community/attachments/75317304_2621764824731652_2984561336492490752_n-jpg.98224/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 13, 2019, 01:14:47 AM
Quote from: Elbows on November 06, 2019, 03:43:20 PM
Is it supposed to be a launcher of some sort?  I thought it was shotgun shells used to "fire" the ram?  Maybe they painted the barrel there by accident :D

Necromunday: Your Move, Creep! Initial Impressions of the Palanite Enforcers (https://www.goonhammer.com/necromunday-your-move-creep-initial-impressions-of-the-palanite-enforcers/)

Quote
SLHG Pattern Assault Ram “Sledge Hammer” – This is a high-strength, versatile melee weapon with a built-in grenade launcher with frag and choke grenades. It’s a weird one, reader. Grenade launchers want to be far from their targets, but this is a melee weapon with an attached GL. It doesn’t make a ton of sense. It could, however, be deadly in the hands of a later-campaign champion or leader.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 15, 2019, 03:22:25 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/15/old-world-new-warhammer/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on November 15, 2019, 03:27:36 PM
Ahahaha that's funny!

I wonder if it'll be warmaster type game though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 15, 2019, 03:39:43 PM
Quote from: Gibby on November 15, 2019, 03:22:25 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/15/old-world-new-warhammer/

I have no words.

Except those of course.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 15, 2019, 03:50:20 PM
My head hurts it ,So they blew up the old world now in a couple of years they may bring it back ??, The cynic in me thinks that they may bring in fewer models at a greater price??
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 15, 2019, 04:25:42 PM
I don't think they'll change the scale etc.

I think it'll more likely be like 30k. Which has been a relative success leading to them doing plastics for them. The only difference being that they have plastics for the old world from the last time out, AND you can use the new stuff too. So the new Chaos warriors on slightly bigger bases for example.

Considering you need less of them in AoS it could be a way of selling larger numbers of new models anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 15, 2019, 04:47:31 PM
Yeah, I agree with McFonz - indeed, they basically say in the article that it'll stand to AoS as the Heresy stands to 40K.

Looks like a good way to keep the older gamers on board to me. Sure, they already have armies, but when has "I already have an army" stopped most of us from buying more?

Would also be very interested (in a theoretical way, at least, not going to buy 'em) to see GW with current capabilities do Bretonnians properly.

If they finally did the Norse as well (I still remember wanting to do a Norse army based on the hints in the white army book that came with one of the early boxed versions of Warhammer), that would be cool!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 15, 2019, 05:38:02 PM
The less visited nations and races would benefit from attention, but would they get it? Norsca, Cathay, Tilea, Estalia, Kislev, Bretonnia, Hobgoblins, Slann … Albion even! And would GW bother to cater to the aesthetic wishes of the Oldhammer enthusiasts who yearn for subtler sculpting, less OTT nonsense and a focus away from the core armies if they knew each release is likely to appeal to niche collectors? I remain sceptical.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on November 15, 2019, 06:04:29 PM
In my head it went more. "Guys... Have we still got those 8th edition moulds? Coz I've just seen what the Muppets are paying for a plastic head on eBay."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 15, 2019, 06:46:34 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 15, 2019, 05:38:02 PM
The less visited nations and races would benefit from attention, but would they get it? Norsca, Cathay, Tilea, Estalia, Kislev, Bretonnia, Hobgoblins, Slann … Albion even!

Indeed! But which hobgoblins and which Slann? Like you, I imagine, I fear that proper Aly Morrison-style hobgoblins and Slann braves and cold-one riders are unlikely to materialise ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 15, 2019, 07:21:14 PM
I wonder if the map they show is any kind of hint of whats to come...though with a 3+ year wait I assume it's little more than an idea and some notes right now.

New minis in the old style would be great to see but I have my doubts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on November 15, 2019, 07:34:18 PM
Wouldn't it be lovely if they re-released some if the old metal miniatures from the 80s and 90s... cue dreams of Jes Goodwin elves, Kev Adam's gobbos, Perry humans...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 15, 2019, 08:04:40 PM
I mean, there are soooo many Kev Adams gobbos out there, and his sculpting has improved over the years as has the mould making etc. I'd just buy the ones that are already out there... Or commission him to do modern takes on the old ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on November 15, 2019, 08:11:13 PM
Quote from: tin shed gamer on November 15, 2019, 06:04:29 PM
In my head it went more. "Guys... Have we still got those 8th edition moulds? Coz I've just seen what the Muppets are paying for a plastic head on eBay."
lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 15, 2019, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on November 15, 2019, 08:04:40 PM
I mean, there are soooo many Kev Adams gobbos out there, and his sculpting has improved over the years as has the mould making etc. I'd just buy the ones that are already out there... Or commission him to do modern takes on the old ones.

I'd quibble slightly with that. I like all of his stuff, and it's consistently tremendous, but I think his very best stuff is some of his earliest. If you look at the first goblins and orcs he did for Citadel, they've got a bit much more of the Perrys' naturalness of posture and animation than some of his later stuff. I also find that the weapons of his mid=80s Citadel orcs, though they're often outrageously shaped and spiky, look a bit more feasible than some more recent ones (where there are a lot more double-headed axes with very thick hafts, for some reason).

That's not to say that he's not still doing great stuff - he absolutely is - but the mix of Perry-style naturalism and outrageous cartoonishness in the orc with the ball and chain and the one on the boar below are hard to beat. (The one on the left is a Trish Morrison orc). And his first range of goblins - the ones mixed in with the Perrys' ones - are probably the best he ever did.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 15, 2019, 08:57:52 PM
Also think KA did some of his best work in the 80s, also agree he's still great.

Back to new old world:
Perhaps I'm getting carried away with the Heresy comparison, but I too wondered if the map was a clue. I idly wonder if the core of it might be mildly differentiated human factions, led by significantly differentiated heroes.
Heroes and the handful of new factions aside, the Heresy range didn't demand much of GW's sculptors, except for the poor bastards on shoulder pad duty  :)

In any case, if my limited knowledge of the 40k crowd is anything to go by, Oldhammer punters will buy lots of new stuff in the old style. I expect people will go nuts for the redux Blanche chaos amazon - maybe GW are testing demand with that? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 15, 2019, 10:12:15 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on November 15, 2019, 06:46:34 PM
Indeed! But which hobgoblins and which Slann? Like you, I imagine, I fear that proper Aly Morrison-style hobgoblins and Slann braves and cold-one riders are unlikely to materialise ...

I really liked the idea of Hobgoblins being steppe types, with Mongol or other Asiatic styling - the Oglah Khan wolf riders were well done - but the odd knife-dancing ones with the giant hats were really awful. Lustria in general has been left to whither on the vine as has everything else beyond the rather restrictive Old World map. Remember the punk-haired Amazons? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 15, 2019, 10:18:18 PM
Quote from: Cubs on November 15, 2019, 10:12:15 PM
I really liked the idea of Hobgoblins being steppe types, with Mongol or other Asiatic styling - the Oglah Khan wolf riders were well done - but the odd knife-dancing ones with the giant hats were really awful.

Yes. I reckon the Aly Morrison ones were so good that anything that came after couldn't really live up to them. I've hoarded dozens of them, but almost fear to apply the brush!

Quote from: Cubs on November 15, 2019, 10:12:15 PM
Lustria in general has been left to whither on the vine as has everything else beyond the rather restrictive Old World map. Remember the punk-haired Amazons?

Oh, yes - they were great! And the two ranges of Perry slann! The first range of Trish Morrison ones were very nice too, but the subsequent range of uniform squatters were a bit bland; I still like them, but they're not as good as the more dynamic range that preceded them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 15, 2019, 10:46:31 PM
I like the look of the new gobbo wolf rider wolves (I might mount some old comical goblins on them though)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: LordOdo on November 15, 2019, 11:13:41 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on November 13, 2019, 01:08:16 AM
This been covered yet?

At least were being treated to another Age of $igmar model, though I don't expect her to go for less than $30...

https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/new-models-incoming.8526/page-97#post-212281 (https://yaktribe.games/community/threads/new-models-incoming.8526/page-97#post-212281)

(https://yaktribe.games/community/attachments/75317304_2621764824731652_2984561336492490752_n-jpg.98224/)

Oooh lovely mini  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. White on November 16, 2019, 12:29:53 AM
yeah, I would buy that ^ Amazonia model for sure.

Regarding a return to the Old World...I wanna know why GW announced this 'three years' out? They've held their cards pretty close the last few years. Only announcing stuff a few weeks ahead of time.

What's the deal here?

Is Kings of War that much of a threat? Is KoW getting a new edition? Why does GW want rank-and-file fans to sit on their wallets? It seems they want to take the wind out of the sails of _something_.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 16, 2019, 12:36:05 AM
Quote from: Gibby on November 15, 2019, 03:22:25 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/15/old-world-new-warhammer/
Could this be the Warhammer Legends they've been talking about?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 16, 2019, 12:57:33 AM
Quote from: Cubs on November 15, 2019, 10:12:15 PM
I really liked the idea of Hobgoblins being steppe types, with Mongol or other Asiatic styling - the Oglah Khan wolf riders were well done - but the odd knife-dancing ones with the giant hats were really awful. Lustria in general has been left to whither on the vine as has everything else beyond the rather restrictive Old World map. Remember the punk-haired Amazons?
Don't know if true, but I heard Oglah Khan and Ghazak Khan were discontinued due similarities with WWII caricatures of Asians. :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 16, 2019, 01:21:32 AM
Quote from: Jack Hooligan on November 16, 2019, 12:29:53 AM
yeah, I would buy that ^ Amazonia model for sure.

Regarding a return to the Old World...I wanna know why GW announced this 'three years' out? They've held their cards pretty close the last few years. Only announcing stuff a few weeks ahead of time.

What's the deal here?

Is Kings of War that much of a threat? Is KoW getting a new edition? Why does GW want rank-and-file fans to sit on their wallets? It seems they want to take the wind out of the sails of _something_.
Hasslefree offers it's own version, called Blanche (https://www.hfminis.co.uk/shop?product=blanche~hfh096&category=fantasy-%26%0D%0Asteampunk~fantasy-humans).

I guess in three years' time, demand for Age of $igmar would wane and I get the impression it's not as popular as 30k or 40k...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 16, 2019, 01:27:52 AM
Quote from: LordOdo on November 15, 2019, 11:13:41 PM
Oooh lovely mini  :-*

I wonder if GW will do a Warlock figure too? IIRC, weren't the two bundled together? Depending on the price, it might be cheaper scouring eBay for the lead versions... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 16, 2019, 03:59:25 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 10, 2019, 01:28:50 PM
The new Necro is more expensive than I thought it would be, given that everyone who really wants Enforcers already owns them. If this were the first we've seen of the Enforcers, I imagine this would have sold like hotcakes.
Though on second thoughts, I guess the terrain is the selling point. It does look lovely.

Beefcake - I feel your pain. It was only when I moved from NZ to the UK that I felt able to get back into the hobby at all!
As an Enforcer player, I've been waiting for Subjugator bits and I hope these will be available separately - 12 man box? Until then, I'll scour eBay for the box contents... 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 16, 2019, 06:54:42 AM
Quote from: Jack Hooligan on November 16, 2019, 12:29:53 AM
Regarding a return to the Old World...I wanna know why GW announced this 'three years' out? They've held their cards pretty close the last few years. Only announcing stuff a few weeks ahead of time.

What's the deal here?

I wonder if this was something a lot of people asked for on the GW survey. When they announced Sisters of Battle they did so saying it'd be 2 years till they were released.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on November 16, 2019, 09:27:40 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on November 16, 2019, 06:54:42 AM
I wonder if this was something a lot of people asked for on the GW survey. When they announced Sisters of Battle they did so saying it'd be 2 years till they were released.

That’s what I thought, the hype for SoB has been sustained for a couple of years without much let up!

I figure it’s also a way of sustaining their insane profits, they’re going to run out of things to release at this rate.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on November 16, 2019, 10:41:55 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on November 16, 2019, 09:27:40 AM
That’s what I thought, the hype for SoB has been sustained for a couple of years without much let up!

I figure it’s also a way of sustaining their insane profits, they’re going to run out of things to release at this rate.
And the hype appears to have worked - the new Sisters of Battle set has just sold out in 13 minutes (pre-order for most the world minus NZ, AUS, Japan and North America).


Very confused by the Old World revival. Not particularly excited actually, partially due to the way they ended it the first time, partially because we have no idea what the revival even means, partially because the quality of lore, rules and some designs as of late have not exactly been inspiring. However, anything based on existing designs has been rather terrific in modern plastics (the aforementioned SoB are a pretty good example), so new figures could be great. Bringing back older plastics seems strange seeing how they only recently culled large proportions of the Empire, Wood Elf, High Elf, Dwarf and Greenskins ranges. Not to mention the full extermination of the Tomb Kings of course, who had many recent plastic kits. Though I imagine it will involve something like that, with anything that was metal/resin replaced by new plastic sets too (as they're certainly phasing out anything that isn't plastic now).

But even that last part is confusing. Various 40k armies still have a lot of resin in the ranges. As do a fair few Age of Sigmar factions in as far as those factions/units survived the transition. In addition, there still are several old factions that have basically gotten nothing new in Age of Sigmar so far (Ghouls/Skaven/Ogres got 1 character sculpt? Others like the Lizardmen nothing but rules?), and a whole range of factions they haven't even got around to releasing (the new shadow something elves led by what used to be Malekith, similar for light elves, now apparently new Orion-esque wood elves, perhaps a new actual normal human faction?). Where will they get the production capacity to recreate the old WHFB figures if they already appear to struggle updating their core ranges?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on November 16, 2019, 12:54:20 PM
Quote from: Jack Hooligan on November 16, 2019, 12:29:53 AM
yeah, I would buy that ^ Amazonia model for sure.

Regarding a return to the Old World...I wanna know why GW announced this 'three years' out? They've held their cards pretty close the last few years. Only announcing stuff a few weeks ahead of time.

What's the deal here?

Is Kings of War that much of a threat? Is KoW getting a new edition? Why does GW want rank-and-file fans to sit on their wallets? It seems they want to take the wind out of the sails of _something_.

I think Kings of War has a respectable following. The new edition came out this month. And very nice it is too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tim Haslam on November 16, 2019, 03:15:42 PM
So basically all we can do here is try and guess what this ‘new’ warhammer world is going to turn out?
After the way they blew up the original Warhammer world, I’m in the synical camp.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 16, 2019, 03:43:15 PM
At first I was a bit cynical about what they'll do with the Old World in this way, but I've thought about it for a bit and am cautiously optimistic. They're aiming at the nostalgia market. They've seen how well their Specialist Games revival is doing, they've seen there's still a market for rank and file games, and there's still a market for fairly down-to-Earth (ok, compared to Age of Sigmar's style of fantasy that is) fantasy with regular medieval humans milling about in identifiable ways. If they bring this out and it's the Old World with heavy AoS flavour, they'll lose the very market this move is aimed at, rendering it pointless.

Ultimately though, for me this announcement comes a bit too late. About a year or two ago I'd be super excited, but since then I've been collecting 6th Edition books and building my own forces from various ranges, accepting that the Old World I love still exists in my mind to be gamed in with any willing friends. What I do hope for is that some of the old kits make a return as there are some forces I'd like to do that 3rd party manufacturers just don't do as well (for my tastes).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Bloggard on November 16, 2019, 03:59:53 PM
Quote from: Jack Hooligan on November 16, 2019, 12:29:53 AM

Regarding a return to the Old World...I wanna know why GW announced this 'three years' out? They've held their cards pretty close the last few years. Only announcing stuff a few weeks ahead of time.

What's the deal here?

Is Kings of War that much of a threat? Is KoW getting a new edition? Why does GW want rank-and-file fans to sit on their wallets? It seems they want to take the wind out of the sails of _something_.

exactly my thoughts which I've expressed in kind on the TGA board.
seems very strange on the face of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 16, 2019, 04:18:03 PM
Quote from: Tim Haslam on November 16, 2019, 03:15:42 PM
So basically all we can do here is try and guess what this ‘new’ warhammer world is going to turn out?
After the way they blew up the original Warhammer world, I’m in the synical camp.

My local store manager has confirmed to my gaming club that it is essentially what the Horus Heresy is to 40k. So it sounds very much like it is gaming in the old world. Whether that will follow the new rules or a new version of WHFB we'll just have to see. But I don't mind that tbh.

Quote from: Condottiere on November 16, 2019, 03:59:25 AM
As an Enforcer player, I've been waiting for Subjugator bits and I hope these will be available separately - 12 man box? Until then, I'll scour eBay for the box contents... 

"Hope" - I've seen comments like this around before. Of course they'll be available separately. They have been confirmed to be released as a 6 model box. So this new boxed set has half a box of the enforcers and an entire box of Subjugators.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on November 16, 2019, 05:00:21 PM
My take on this is GW probably plans to largely "fill in" the majority of 40k and AoS factions in the next 3 years and needs something new in which to keep the money rolling in.

In the last few years we've seen a massive reinvention of Fantasy in AoS and the expansion of/replacement of Old kits and Factions in 40k. I've no doubt that with the reintroduction of Necromunda, Titanicus and Aeronautica that in the next 2 years we will see Epic and Gothic return (as they seem to release one of these games each year). I don't know what we will see for AoS, but I suspect after Shadespire and Warcry something will come along.

However at the end of the 3 years maybe the opportunity for BIG releases for AoS and 40k might start to dry up.

I suspect the Old World is a way to counter this, as well as offer reimaginings of other legacy games like Mordheim and Warmaster. I also suspect, like others have said with GW leaning more towards plastics that we will see Horus Heresy in Plastic make a return during a similar time period as well.

Why they've announced it now is a bit bizarre, though I suspect the plethora of Rank and File fantasy games from other manufacturers may have caught them off guard.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 16, 2019, 05:04:10 PM
Quote from: Gibby on November 16, 2019, 03:43:15 PM
If they bring this out and it's the Old World with heavy AoS flavour, they'll lose the very market this move is aimed at, rendering it pointless.


This is the rub. Is it going to basically be a resurrection of the later editions of WHFB, or a hard reverse into Oldhammer? Whichever they do, it's not going to please everyone. If I was them - and I can't quite believe I'm saying this - I wouldn't bother with the Oldhammer market since us old farts love the models from 30+ years ago and I don't see them going that far back with the fluff or sculpting style, plus we tend not to spend huge amounts at a time so it may not be financially viable. If they do bring out new models with the subtle understated flavour of the 80's I'll be gloriously happy, but I don't expect it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tim Haslam on November 16, 2019, 07:08:09 PM
Yup,
Sadly I agree.
Fantasy was never GW’s major money maker, it was always 40k
This is why eBay is flooded with barely used 2nd hand space marines.
AoS, no matter how good a game system some may say, is just fantasy 40k.
And it sells.

Anyhow, hope I’m wrong in 3 years time, and loads of lovely new plastic fantasy figures are released.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 16, 2019, 07:30:03 PM
A friend of mine also pointed out that 30k is sort of "Winding down" in a way, in that they've reached the Siege of Terra in the main release storyline, and while the Black Books are behind that, they're not far off.

A return to Oldhammer in 2-3 years gives them something to shift to while leaving 30k fallow for a while.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 16, 2019, 09:29:11 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 16, 2019, 07:30:03 PM
A friend of mine also pointed out that 30k is sort of "Winding down" in a way, in that they've reached the Siege of Terra in the main release storyline, and while the Black Books are behind that, they're not far off.

A return to Oldhammer in 2-3 years gives them something to shift to while leaving 30k fallow for a while.

This seems like a very sane idea too be honest.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 16, 2019, 10:05:53 PM
I get the distinct impression there are actually thinkers in charge at GW these days, a mix of hard-headed business people who have actual 5yr strategies, with people who love the hobby and understand the importance of not maximising profit with every decision if it nurtures the genre.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on November 16, 2019, 10:56:39 PM
Could the Old World hook be a way of doing a few more boxed games? An Old World edition of the new versions of Warhammer Quest, or a Mordheim product, maybe.

Seems odd to announce it three years early. But seems too much of a coincidence that a new King's of war edition just came out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on November 16, 2019, 11:27:03 PM
Sisters of Battle limited edition super rare box set sold out after 2 minutes, much to the despair of people on Facebook, looks like a lot of scalpers got copies based on eBay listings.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 17, 2019, 02:35:44 AM
MiniWarGamers React to "Warhammer: The Old World" Announcement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqMFRE86O5E)...

Despite claims of the base being unimportant, squares were pulled from the store earlier in the year, but if they're returning to the Old World, will these be returning?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 17, 2019, 03:08:20 AM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on November 16, 2019, 11:27:03 PM
Sisters of Battle limited edition super rare box set sold out after 2 minutes, much to the despair of people on Facebook, looks like a lot of scalpers got copies based on eBay listings.

I nabbed one off the main GW site. I started buying Sisters when they were first released and never really stopped collecting them even after many years without playing 40K. I think the new models are excellent overall.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on November 17, 2019, 05:16:11 AM
Unfortunate I took way too long to respond to the email notice of the sale. All sets were already gone.  The ebay parasites will not get my money. Maybe I will see a set in a local store.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 17, 2019, 08:22:22 AM
You never know. They might Space Hulk it and have another limited edition box come out.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on November 17, 2019, 10:52:30 AM
Quote from: syrinx0 on November 17, 2019, 05:16:11 AM
Unfortunate I took way too long to respond to the email notice of the sale. All sets were already gone.  The ebay parasites will not get my money. Maybe I will see a set in a local store.
You won't be the only one - having been F5ing religiously (seems fitting...) for 20 minutes that morning, it appears the main pre-order window (global minus North America, New Zealand, Australia and Japan) opened a minute early (9:59am), I only received the newsletter email at 10:08 and the webstore displayed they were sold out 10:12.
The website apparently also crashed due to the amount of traffic, and reportedly anybody arriving even shortly after 10am was unable to get anywhere. While I had continued access, every step of the ordering process took almost a minute in loading time; felt like dial-up internet at times!
I think it took the antipodes a bit longer to buy their allotted number, and North America seems to have taken about half an hour to sell out.
Good thing there was a two-week pre-order period.  o_o

Anyway.. I guess they were a bit popular.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on November 17, 2019, 02:17:24 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on November 16, 2019, 10:56:39 PM
But seems too much of a coincidence that a new King's of war edition just came out.

Do you even think Mantic register on the GW radar?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 17, 2019, 02:28:56 PM
I don't see why not, even if only for the fact that it was started by an ex-GW employee.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on November 17, 2019, 04:09:50 PM
I suspect they are aware, but I don't think Mantic really bother GW in the sense of make them knee jerk in such a way.

More a case of watching the market and seeing the 9th Age and a host of other games doing well enough to test the waters with a game that pays honour to the longer term fans.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 17, 2019, 06:10:23 PM
I wonder if they plan on following the AoS model of a handful of options for each faction with little to no wargear options or if they plan on doing more, looking at Horus Heresy FW have produced a larger number of kits but then most can be used by any legion.

I look forward to seeing an update with something a bit more solid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 18, 2019, 02:42:48 PM
Quote from: beefcake on November 17, 2019, 08:22:22 AM
You never know. They might Space Hulk it and have another limited edition box come out.  :D
Nah. They'll stick them in getting started boxes.

Look at shadowspear as proof
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 18, 2019, 03:21:24 PM
As far as I can tell the only limited part of this box set was the unique codex art?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Manchu on November 18, 2019, 04:18:05 PM
Hard to say. The sprues included definitely are not the ones that will be coming in the respective unit boxes next year. Then again, maybe this box will be repackaged as a Start Collecting box down the line (as per the newest SM and CSM SC boxes, originally packaged together as Shadowspear). I'd think the cards will be available when the "real" release happens. And the white dice are just white dice, no special symbols or anything.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on November 19, 2019, 12:43:07 PM
Quote from: Manchu on November 18, 2019, 04:18:05 PM
And the white dice are just white dice, no special symbols or anything.

They are holy white dice.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on November 19, 2019, 05:55:53 PM
This was racist Flip  o_o :o lol ;D ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 20, 2019, 04:33:32 AM
Oh my lord (https://twitter.com/Calliethulhu/status/1196977665061900289):

Quote
So apparently Games Workshop have decided that Warhammer 40k needs *checks picture* the popemobile
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJyE1dDXkAA_j7R?format=jpg&name=medium)

I love it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on November 20, 2019, 05:14:34 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 20, 2019, 04:33:32 AM
Oh my lord (https://twitter.com/Calliethulhu/status/1196977665061900289):
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJyE1dDXkAA_j7R?format=jpg&name=medium)

I love it.

I must say, except for some of the detail, that wouldn't have looked out of place in a Jodorowsky-Moebius comic.

Quadruple-linked flamers, though. Somebody really likes their heretics barbecued...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 20, 2019, 06:20:49 AM
This'd make a nice piece for a diorama or some terrain but for me it ranks alongside Logan Grimnar's santa sleigh...too daft for my tastes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 20, 2019, 08:01:00 AM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on November 20, 2019, 05:14:34 AM
I must say, except for some of the detail, that wouldn't have looked out of place in a Jodorowsky-Moebius comic.

Quadruple-linked flamers, though. Somebody really likes their heretics barbecued...
The carven skeletons positioned as if they were firing the flamers is an especially nice touch.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on November 20, 2019, 10:03:00 AM
Rules wise the popemobile is a bit daft, its only usable if you take Order of our martyred lady, so its sub faction specific  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on November 21, 2019, 08:58:16 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 20, 2019, 04:33:32 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJyE1dDXkAA_j7R?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: Lost Egg on November 20, 2019, 06:20:49 AM
This'd make a nice piece for a diorama or some terrain but for me it ranks alongside Logan Grimnar's santa sleigh...too daft for my tastes.
I have to agree.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: steders on November 21, 2019, 10:29:26 AM
I hated that santa sleigh BUT i really like this.
It harkens back to early Rogue trader art with a dash of Monty python
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gabbi on November 21, 2019, 10:46:06 AM
Quote from: LordOdo on November 15, 2019, 11:13:41 PM
Oooh lovely mini  :-*

Love it!
Too bad the sprues look like finecast...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 21, 2019, 11:51:15 AM
Quote from: steders on November 21, 2019, 10:29:26 AM
I hated that santa sleigh BUT i really like this.
It harkens back to early Rogue trader art with a dash of Monty python

I was thinking Dave Allen! I can imagine an irreverent sketch with a nun in a hovering pulpit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on November 21, 2019, 07:58:04 PM
Quote from: steders on November 21, 2019, 10:29:26 AM
I hated that santa sleigh BUT i really like this.
It harkens back to early Rogue trader art with a dash of Monty python
Feel the same - it's ridiculous and silly, but not quite too much. It feels like precisely the type of ornate statement a faction like this would make. Especially with those flamers attached.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 22, 2019, 02:06:37 AM
Quote from: steders on November 21, 2019, 10:29:26 AM
I hated that santa sleigh BUT i really like this.
It harkens back to early Rogue trader art with a dash of Monty python

Same, I detest the Space Wolf sleigh. Not sure why but I expect marines to be more practical. Ministorum on the other hand can be full on Nemesis the Warlock craziness.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Griefbringer on November 22, 2019, 11:03:48 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 20, 2019, 08:01:00 AM
The carven skeletons positioned as if they were firing the flamers is an especially nice touch.

Carven? I would assume that they are actually remains of particularly honoured members of the order who have been, instead of ordinary burial, been granted the special honour to crew the flamers, thus allowing them to server the Emperor even after their death. The dark grayish colour is from all of the soot that has accumulated on them over the centuries, an unenvitable side effect of such a long service in burning the heretics. Unlike the rest of the edifice, the bones are not cleaned and polished, thus making their lenght of service more visible.

For the Emperor!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 22, 2019, 05:04:57 PM
Liking the new mephiston.
Could of loved it if they hadn't cocked up the hair.

Edit: stupid morons put the sword blood drop upside down
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on November 22, 2019, 08:50:02 PM
The gem near the tip? Seems to match the Mark Gibbons' illustration. But it is a weird place to put a gem on a sword, nice model though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 22, 2019, 09:16:53 PM
But it and the skull are the wrong way relative to up and down on a sword  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on November 22, 2019, 09:25:22 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on November 22, 2019, 09:16:53 PM
But it and the skull are the wrong way relative to up and down on a sword  lol

On the original figure the skull and drip were upside down to each other, so at least the new model sorted that! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on November 23, 2019, 11:51:58 AM
I haven't really paid attention to GW goings on, but I kinda regret missing out on the old Deathwatch Overkill and Killteam starter sets (the one with A. Mechanicus and genestealers).

I suppose once they run out of stock, they're never coming back? So the only option is to hunt for them online, eBay etc?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr Tough Guy on November 23, 2019, 12:04:47 PM
they say it's based on classic mark gibbons artwork, but the first thing I thought when seeing it was this:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6McqvdxepUA/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 24, 2019, 02:39:16 PM
Quote from: Verderer on November 23, 2019, 11:51:58 AM
I haven't really paid attention to GW goings on, but I kinda regret missing out on the old Deathwatch Overkill and Killteam starter sets (the one with A. Mechanicus and genestealers).

I suppose once they run out of stock, they're never coming back? So the only option is to hunt for them online, eBay etc?

Everything is still available, mostly in Start Collecting and terrain sets. But Deatwatch Overkill was very usefull, as were the Kill Team Terrain sets with playing board... Probably those will be totally scalped out, as are the newest AoS boxed 2-factions scenario sets.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 24, 2019, 08:05:31 PM
Ahh the chapter approved gamer pass is two books this year  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on November 25, 2019, 02:03:36 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on November 24, 2019, 02:39:16 PM
Everything is still available, mostly in Start Collecting and terrain sets. But Deatwatch Overkill was very usefull, as were the Kill Team Terrain sets with playing board... Probably those will be totally scalped out, as are the newest AoS boxed 2-factions scenario sets.  :'(

True I guess, but it was the combo of minis, board & terrain pieces that looks attractive, plus I am guessing they would have been cheaper in comparison? Oh well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 25, 2019, 07:27:44 PM
Yes, those sets are good deals, hence the rampaging scalpers. These days it's possible to order such a boxed set in a GW store, on the they go on preorder. That should guarantee you a copy...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on November 26, 2019, 07:16:50 AM
The result might suprise you. :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9ILnRqo9UQ&t=0s

Obviously the deck was stacked before the cards were layed out in this one. But on a metaphysical level I think that is apropriate no?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on November 30, 2019, 03:20:06 AM
Anyone ever seen where someone has pointed out and transferred stats and rules for primaris and custodes (the stuff that wasn't in 7th) for 7th edition rules? I know we can just port over most stats but points and special rules are beyond me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 30, 2019, 10:04:56 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/30/reveals-from-the-warhammer-40000-open-daygw-homepage-post-1/
The new ad mech air craft I must have one !! :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 30, 2019, 10:37:46 AM
Yeah, that has a lot of potential  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 30, 2019, 11:23:04 AM
Hideous wings but the rest of the flyer looks great.

The SoB mini looks good but too much for my tastes as a gaming piece...a great diorama though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on November 30, 2019, 11:39:15 AM
GW does batman now?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on November 30, 2019, 11:55:01 AM
Quote from: JamesValentine on November 30, 2019, 11:39:15 AM
GW does batman now?

I'd rather say it's very reminiscent of the Fallout Vertibird with a touch of Dune.

I'm very, very positively surprised.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on November 30, 2019, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on November 30, 2019, 11:23:04 AM
Hideous wings but the rest of the flyer looks great.

The SoB mini looks good but too much for my tastes as a gaming piece...a great diorama though.
It’s the wings that sold me I’m thinking trigran empire/ feudal guard style?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 30, 2019, 12:18:32 PM
Fair enough mate. The wings put me in mind of Dune but I've never been a fan of the look of their flyers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 30, 2019, 03:11:19 PM
Oooft, that Sisters triumph thing suggests so many amazing conversion opportunities. Those acolyte sisters are the best SoB minis yet I'd say.

I also thought of Dune on seeing the Mechanicus flappy thing. Always liked how weird the Dune tech seemed to be in the first novel. Personally I'd prefer the wings a little less organic-looking though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on November 30, 2019, 05:48:25 PM
My first thought for the flyer was Lexx, it's going to get used for everything but the thing it's supposed to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 30, 2019, 06:30:53 PM
Like to see what people are going to make of that flyer. No use for it as it sits (ok, flies ), but it has potential.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 30, 2019, 06:38:02 PM
Quote from: voltan on November 30, 2019, 05:48:25 PM
My first thought for the flyer was Lexx,

Good call  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malamute on November 30, 2019, 07:08:41 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on November 30, 2019, 11:39:15 AM
GW does batman now?

And who doesn’t love Batman? :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on November 30, 2019, 07:18:59 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on November 30, 2019, 11:39:15 AM
GW does batman now?

No? Quite obviously not.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 02, 2019, 07:11:13 PM
Quote from: OSHIROmodels on November 30, 2019, 07:18:59 PM
No? Quite obviously not.

(http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/t867nt.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on December 02, 2019, 08:02:40 PM
Is it me or is there only one skull built in?
If that's the case I might have actually found a kit I'd actually find a use for.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 02, 2019, 08:21:09 PM
I'll echo others that the "everything-but-those-silly-wings" part certainly has potential.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on December 03, 2019, 01:13:31 AM
Like the flyer very much :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on December 03, 2019, 02:43:17 PM
The Archaeopter has gone to the top of my 2020 shopping list. Adeptus Mechanicus were my first, and still my favourite, 40k army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on December 03, 2019, 08:03:52 PM
Quote from: OSHIROmodels on November 30, 2019, 07:18:59 PM
No? Quite obviously not.
Lead adventure: showing no humour since...forever...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 03, 2019, 08:09:35 PM
"Holy IP infringement, Batman!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on December 03, 2019, 08:12:24 PM
Ah crap.  Now there's gonna be two dozen people claiming I'm claiming IP infringement and twisting my words till mods start beating me with a stick  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 03, 2019, 08:13:09 PM
Ahh..but the AM flyer has chicken legs...so...yeah...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on December 03, 2019, 08:18:44 PM
Do we have to go through this again, guys? Please cut it out, all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 03, 2019, 09:02:19 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on December 03, 2019, 08:18:44 PM
Do we have to go through this again, guys? Please cut it out, all.

Whoa there Smokey; Jim got a little ribbing for missing a reference, and everyone else just seems to be joking. No smoke, no fire. You can put the extinguisher away.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 03, 2019, 09:04:35 PM
That is an exceptionally good memory of the old Batman series! I mean, I loved that show as a kid but had no recollection of that chopper.

Regarding GW, anyone else noticed the Forgeworld Bloodbowl ogresses?  :o  I have to say, I'm genuinely enjoying GW's recent commitment to including more female sculpts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on December 03, 2019, 09:35:35 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on December 03, 2019, 09:02:19 PM
Whoa there Smokey; Jim got a little ribbing for missing a reference, and everyone else just seems to be joking. No smoke, no fire. You can put the extinguisher away.

Yeah, I'm not old enough to know about the spidey copter  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 03, 2019, 10:23:55 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on December 03, 2019, 08:12:24 PM
Ah crap.  Now there's gonna be two dozen people claiming I'm claiming IP infringement and twisting my words till mods start beating me with a stick  lol

(https://www.billboard.com/files/styles/article_main_image/public/media/radiohead-burn-the-witch-vid-2016-billboard-650-1548.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 03, 2019, 10:25:50 PM
I reckon that flyer is two halves of two really good models, they just shouldn't be stuck together like that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 03, 2019, 11:23:24 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on December 03, 2019, 09:02:19 PM
Whoa there Smokey; Jim got a little ribbing for missing a reference, and everyone else just seems to be joking. No smoke, no fire. You can put the extinguisher away.

If we are to be honest, I think it's 50% an obscure reference few people got and to be honest, clearly isn't inspiration for the model. And 50% - no one can ever really tell when said person is being serious or not considering the nature of a large amount of their previous statements in this thread, including the perception that anything can be said and gotten away with in it.

Perhaps if folks were generally a bit nicer, less sarky, and more respectful, people's responses to them would be equally so.

As you say, "no smoke, no fire".  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew May on December 04, 2019, 12:09:50 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on December 03, 2019, 09:04:35 PM
Regarding GW, anyone else noticed the Forgeworld Bloodbowl ogresses?  :o  I have to say, I'm genuinely enjoying GW's recent commitment to including more female sculpts.

Where did you see those?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on December 04, 2019, 01:46:45 AM
Quote from: Andrew May on December 04, 2019, 12:09:50 AM
Where did you see those?
https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodbowl/comments/e4lbof/ogre_release/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodbowl/comments/e4lbof/ogre_release/)
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/01/coming-soon-chaos-cults-ogre-teams-war-in-rohan-and-more/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/01/coming-soon-chaos-cults-ogre-teams-war-in-rohan-and-more/)

(https://i.redd.it/cjnaoxmve2241.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on December 04, 2019, 01:52:11 AM
Kit Focus: Start Collecting! Slaves to Darkness (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/02/kit-focus-start-collecting-slaves-to-darknessgw-homepage-post-1/)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/d17ef36e.jpg)

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/620555877719474186/651312737418477568/image0.png)(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/3db3b846.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 04, 2019, 06:48:54 AM
I do like those Ogre ladies...would definitely get some if I had an ogre army.

The bare heads for the S2D Warriors look cool too. Some might work well for marines. I wonder if these are from the Start Collecting set or the full kit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on December 04, 2019, 12:43:59 PM
Now I want a Bat-Copter!

And some big Ogre lasses too!

Feck knows what for but they do look fun!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Charlie_ on December 04, 2019, 03:50:33 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on December 03, 2019, 09:04:35 PM
That is an exceptionally good memory of the old Batman series! I mean, I loved that show as a kid but had no recollection of that chopper.

I know it featured in the 1960s Batman film, which is an absolute classic in terms of campy absurdity! They take the batcopter out to investigate a yacht in distress... Batman is lowered down to the yacht... ("lower the BAT-LADDER, Robin"... I kid you not!). But it was a trap, the yacht was a hologram! Robin accidentally lowers batman into the sea, and when he is lifted out there is a shark attached to his leg!

This immortal line follows..... "Robin! Hand me down the shark-repellant Bat-spray!" The spray does its job, and the shark falls back into the sea.... and EXPLODES!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shahbahraz on December 04, 2019, 08:33:59 PM
I'm pretty sure Netflix made a movie with a very similar plot..   :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 05, 2019, 09:59:55 AM
Charlie_ - I loved that movie and the scene as a kid. Champagne comedy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on December 05, 2019, 06:35:02 PM
The edge highlighting on those chaos warrior's helmets makes them look like members of KISS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 05, 2019, 06:37:05 PM
The dude with the eye patch looks a bit elven...apart from the ears...maybe he trimmed them down? :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on December 07, 2019, 04:07:12 AM
Quote from: MagpieJono on December 05, 2019, 06:35:02 PM
The edge highlighting on those chaos warrior's helmets makes them look like members of KISS.
They are a chaotic army... ::)

The Kurgan and eye-patch heads have bare and helmeted versions, unsure about Messrs nose-ring and mohawk.

Anyone else think the female Ogres are a little sexualized?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on December 07, 2019, 04:53:19 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on December 07, 2019, 04:07:12 AM
Anyone else think the female Ogres are a little sexualized?

No more than your average loincloth wearing male chaos warrior.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 07, 2019, 04:59:14 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on December 07, 2019, 04:07:12 AM

Anyone else think the female Ogres are a little sexualized?

You've made me look at the Great Maw gut plate in a whole different way on that left one... ew  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on December 07, 2019, 09:56:08 AM
(https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000132880850-mju9oi-t500x500.jpg)

Ilove how they've bulked out the team with new rules and player types.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 07, 2019, 10:00:58 AM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on December 07, 2019, 11:25:47 AM
Are those chaos warriors out yet? I was interested in how much they are but can't find them on GWs website. Anybody else find it a bit hard to locate things on?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 07, 2019, 11:34:00 AM
I believe they are going up for pre-order next week.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on December 07, 2019, 11:50:10 AM
Okay. Thank you.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on December 07, 2019, 12:44:57 PM
BB Ogres. 16 players. Finally a whole team in a box. Why on earth could they not do that before? Especially halflings.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on December 07, 2019, 02:25:33 PM
Don't do Bloodbowl but 4 ogers and some snots at that price is a steal. Should make some nice pit fighters/ bodyguards...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: LordOdo on December 14, 2019, 10:10:12 PM
Very tempted, and I've never ever played a single game of Bloodbowl before...   :o

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99020999030_BBChaosDwarfMTOCollection.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on December 15, 2019, 08:39:18 AM
Those guys certainly haven't aged badly.
That said, I'm also looking forward to a new plastic set of the same, as the Blood Bowl teams so far have been pretty great.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on December 15, 2019, 10:35:23 AM
Quote from: LordOdo on December 14, 2019, 10:10:12 PM
Very tempted, and I've never ever played a single game of Bloodbowl before...   :o

You should try it. :) While not perfect, it's a compact game which handles the various teams with their entirely different stats and playing styles reasonably well. Sometimes (or even constantly?) single die rolls mean triumph or tragedy, but that actually forces you to adapt to new situations quickly when the ball is suddenly in a completely unexpected place and your key player is down. That's where real skill enters play.

I think I completed my chaos dwarf team on the previous "made to order" round a couple of years ago. It could have been my first GW purchase in a decade or so, right after they finally stopped being outright hostile toward their customers and fans. lol

And of course, that team is still unpainted. :P

I should do something about it. :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on December 16, 2019, 05:58:42 PM
I want one, but would like to know the price up front and even though it can be ordered through the store, by the time I get there it'll probably be sold out in the US warehouse - I won't be waiting for the doors to open!


Quote
As longtime fans are well aware, Grombrindal – the White Dwarf himself – has appeared in many forms over the years. We’re excited to show you this year’s special edition model: Tech-Priest Grombrindal!

Our hero has sworn oaths of fealty to the Priesthood of Mars! In return for his loyalty, he’s been blessed with augmetics, including a glorious beardful of mechadendrites and data-tethers. The Adeptus Mechanicus has honoured him with the trappings of a Magos, including an appropriately sized Omnissian axe.

Of course, his first order of business was giving the Black Gobbo the servitor treatment! This hapless grot is the natural counterpart and nemesis of the White Dwarf, suffering yet another humiliating defeat in this vignette. He does have a pretty sweet, tiny arc claw, but his mind-wiped consciousness probably can’t even appreciate it properly. Maybe that data-wafer Grombrindal’s about to insert will make him realise how cool his new body looks.


Quote
How Can You Get One For Yourself?

Tech-Priest Grombrindal will be available exclusively in Warhammer and Games Workshop stores, starting right after Christmas,* between Thursday the 26th* and Sunday the 29th of December.

If you’re keen, you should plan to be there when the doors open, as he’s bound to be popular! If your local store runs out, you can still order him in-store until December 29th – we’ll ensure there are enough and ship them out as soon as possible.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/aba0112a.jpg)(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/28a9ca0d.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 16, 2019, 06:09:37 PM
The WD himself does nothing for me but I'm digging the dribbling grot-servitor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 16, 2019, 07:28:56 PM
I have pretty much all the white dwarf specials, and would happily have bought this one. However, getting to a shop is a hassle, especially to almost certainly then have to order it from them anyway.

I'll see how bored I am over the holidays, but I may just skip this one  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 16, 2019, 08:39:26 PM
Can you not call the store to enquire about cost?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 16, 2019, 08:46:29 PM
It's not so much the cost, more the hassle of getting to a store that soon after Christmas.

It may be possible to order one over the phone from them, so I may try that. However, if they allow that, then why not just let folk order it online. It's almost as if they're trying to get people into their stores just after they've received money from relatives - but I'm sure it's not that  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 17, 2019, 06:56:52 AM
Yes well the nearest store for me is about 300km away so... Definitely give it a miss, even if I liked it.. which I don't. Not a dwarf fan though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on December 18, 2019, 05:51:48 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on December 16, 2019, 08:39:26 PM
Can you not call the store to enquire about cost?
Just did and they won't know until a day or two before or during the release - was told to check Warhammer Community.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 18, 2019, 08:17:29 PM
I would just go by previous prices. They are usually £20-30.

They never have done orders over the phone to stores, but they can usually give more info. If I get a chance to pop into my city tomorrow, I'll stop by GW and ask them - if not, indie stores sometimes have a bit more info and will share it where as official stores may not be allowed to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on December 25, 2019, 11:52:01 AM
£17.50 for a scout?
That's some strong shot you're smoking.

Oh well at least Azrael got an upd-...oh...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 25, 2019, 01:28:05 PM
Yeah, I don't imagine that guy will fly off the shelves  :) Easy enough to convert a better-looking mini from the current kits if you want the character.

The new Tzeentch disc rider, on the other hand, looks amazing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on December 25, 2019, 06:10:38 PM
Yeah that scouts way overpriced!!! Stupidly in fact and it’s not even that nicer figure
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on December 25, 2019, 10:32:30 PM
Miniatures may not be particularly nice. But I see plenty of piss poor older sculpts on ebay go for extortionate amounts of money. Each to their own. There is always someone else's view on objects. Tis the way of the world and it'll never be changed.

Easier just to shrug your shoulders and move on.

I never really get why people pay thousands of pounds for a watch when a £20 will still tell the time - it doesn't mean I think I'm right, or they're wrong. We're just different. And who am I to care about how someone else spends their money?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on December 26, 2019, 08:35:03 AM
Quote from: majorsmith on December 25, 2019, 06:10:38 PM
... and it’s not even that nicer figure
So it will fit in with the rest of the scouts...
(Disclaimer: Space Marine Scouts in their current form are some of my least favourite GW figures - YMMV).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JamesValentine on December 26, 2019, 09:56:45 AM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on December 26, 2019, 08:35:03 AM
So it will fit in with the rest of the scouts...
(Disclaimer: Space Marine Scouts in their current form are some of my least favourite GW figures - YMMV).
Current plastic scouts are pure trash.
The metals are superior.
Just this one wasn't &#128514;
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 26, 2019, 08:49:59 PM
Yeah the basic metal marine scouts were superbly done - I painted up a bunch a year or two ago.  The plastics are horrid (well the faces at least).  The Naaman dude is awful.  A bit laughable he's the cost of an entire box of modern plastics from places like Fireforge, or Oathmark, Frostgrave, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on December 28, 2019, 11:19:32 PM
I disagree. Scout s are not that bad when you head transplant  lol

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XnFh9pH495bW2SQ1O00zbXvVem3Z5wzCVmAtuGgH1WcTgCfOg6_z-jlS5UqavPNSr49SJvTvoCDwTwI_OKJVYSZ9q0tXeueyQRVcJAWJ7-bbe4xpFOLLZXxKszlcAjXnyqdXG00HEyXsaxWvdzt1pKM2iX8xcLUK1K2MIJ5zJP1xDvnfa-FcgtyFk1yHeuYaFgPGkZrifAAP5Py4PzLlI-zfaU4pXw7TVpzPTlZ8XvIaVzw0eTzGFUFtDRcdWH07BOYSgBT36d5Rmbq97ava6gchsB638I_NvT0RZhxD4s1srTrOFxoMbZzf31L-TLlu-B8uw6nLWnoo7Yw_dSdRyHXhAXA54qoHfpdKWts7Qh0qgub0yB8dAyv5XGmsRz89Ete58SOtrA_de6RqM3awmsq4noc8UBvT-mG5Sm3E9YjHHSQTvS2vivPBV0Nof1DthnqTdhg4pkIRTM4OjB0pWp58Zb6CunGHb31di-iWfzSxNURla7MqL3hF1mS2bRyr5rFDOHPqyfS1_3rF3Pwg-UyK_CBkGoP4W8FmUIhF9KlLmgiHHGUWMXG-zThlMEYXQ-L7uJbwA9im4kAGx8O-kl-2me5_iQiJQAzYv973bBEi_LU5JhoeLtheVSZG9171FlS7NdNYbByOQCYZq6C4tEeYQNvFBahO-Z47fLvYM1TFzW0UqUK66g=w771-h581-no)

Is photo visible? Google made something silly with links
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 29, 2019, 06:21:46 AM
Yep, I can see the pic. I agree with you too, the old Pig Iron heads worked well and the ones you have there look good too AWu.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on December 29, 2019, 08:11:35 AM
Yeah what is the deal with the plastic scout heads, they are awful lol

I have some nice sensible Pig Iron heads in ballistic helmets on order for my one plastic box of scouts and the scout land speeder storm that I have got to build for my Raptors chapter.

My metal scouts are cool and I have always liked them :-*

Better than gurning scouts

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 04, 2020, 10:30:15 AM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battletome-Kharadron-Overlords-Ltd-Ed-2020
Anyone noticed the bird like flier in top left corner of the codex ?

Also the new hunter ogre or what ever their called now looks tempting and I had decided not to buy any gw stuff any more &#128514;
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 04, 2020, 10:36:54 AM
I do like his understated look.

Yeah I had wondered about that bird.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 04, 2020, 06:20:40 PM
I'll be getting that ogre for sure. I might even try to pick up a second to get to sabretysks and convert the other ogre.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 04, 2020, 08:57:19 PM
Is... is that a BEARTRAP CROSSBOW?!

 ;D lol :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cait Sidhe on January 05, 2020, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on January 04, 2020, 08:57:19 PM
Is... is that a BEARTRAP CROSSBOW?!

 ;D lol :-*

Off course not, don't be ludicrous. It's a bear trap harpoon gun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AdmiralAndy on January 08, 2020, 06:30:45 PM
Part 1 of new Hachette partwork is in WHSmith's.

£2.99 gets you 13 miniatures 3 Sigmarines of some type and 10 ghosts.

So can give the system a try or pick up some cheap figures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mallo on January 09, 2020, 01:31:16 PM
Just don't subscribe. Hachette is the worst company in the world to deal with. Only buy from shops.

I have my own horror story with them but a quick look online shows hundreds of similar issues with them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: SpaceGoblin on January 09, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
I just tried to buy one at my local shop this morning but found somebody else had bought the lot. Get it while you can I guess  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AdmiralAndy on January 09, 2020, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: SpaceGoblin on January 09, 2020, 01:57:04 PM
I just tried to buy one at my local shop this morning but found somebody else had bought the lot. Get it while you can I guess  :D

Sorry to hear Spacegoblin, its why I posted to help with a heads up. They also have it in ASDA and maybe worth Forbidden Plant if one near you or may also be worth checking out other supermarkets. Good Hunting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on January 10, 2020, 02:14:12 PM
Picked it up today for the 10 ghosts. Definitely worth £2.99. They'll probably end up as a SBH warband and/or dungeon inhabitants.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: aircav on January 10, 2020, 05:31:42 PM
Picked up a couple today for the wraiths, don’t know what I will do with the Sigmarines though (although the kids might want to chuck some paint at em)   ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: emosbur on January 10, 2020, 09:19:42 PM
I am going to use the sigmarites as statues for Frostgrave.


Milo.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elk101 on January 10, 2020, 09:48:12 PM
Still can't find it  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fastolfrus on January 10, 2020, 10:08:53 PM
Got one in Scarborough. Will use the ghosts for Strange Aeons etc. but no idea what to do with the golden wombles. Probably send to the charity shop
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Bryanbowdell on January 10, 2020, 10:36:41 PM
Tesco seems pretty well stocked with them
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 11, 2020, 10:51:29 AM
Sisters are up for pre-order - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=1125463923+3639190268)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on January 11, 2020, 04:51:41 PM
 I got fifteen on pre-order from a local newsagent.

 Ghost are really nice figures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on January 11, 2020, 10:18:56 PM
I rather like the Ogre chap,he has a certain Frostgrave look,however his crossbow reminds me of the things I use to build when I was twelve and as successful  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cherno on January 13, 2020, 06:47:16 PM
Today while in a local supermarket, in the newspaper & magazine section, I noticed a new magazine by Games Workshop centered around the 40k universe. It is one of these "collect something over a dozen issues, with each one containing a tiny bit of it" affairs. In this case, the first issue had sprues of Ultramarines ("Your first Citadel miniatures!") plus bases and three pots of Citadel paints (blue, red and something else), and of course the magazine. The advertised price was €1.99, I guess it will be quite a bit higher for the following issues. I didn't look at it more closely as I was at work, though. I found it quite interesting  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on January 13, 2020, 09:31:51 PM
Co-ops a good spot! Got 4 today!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fastolfrus on January 13, 2020, 10:01:45 PM
Local Warhammer shop has a shelf full of them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 14, 2020, 07:28:23 AM
Always buy those when you see them, if only for a present or to recruit new blood  ;).
They don't appear in the Netherlands, but at the time I bought 4 of the 1st Lotr DeAgostini's, just for the models...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on January 14, 2020, 11:09:21 AM
Quote from: majorsmith on January 13, 2020, 09:31:51 PM
Co-ops a good spot! Got 4 today!

Thanks for the tip, just picked up a couple of the mags!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gabbi on January 14, 2020, 01:39:29 PM
Quote from: fastolfrus on January 10, 2020, 10:08:53 PM
[...] no idea what to do with the golden wombles. Probably send to the charity shop

As already suggested, they can be used as statues (animated or not).

Quote from: emosbur on January 10, 2020, 09:19:42 PM
I am going to use the sigmarites as statues for Frostgrave.

There's even a quick tutorial available on CItadel Colours website, in the unlikely case someone needs it:
https://citadelcolour.com/playlist/6041675186001/6042721254001
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 14, 2020, 02:21:42 PM
Quote from: zemjw on January 11, 2020, 10:51:29 AM
Sisters are up for pre-order - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=1125463923+3639190268)

Now I have pretty much stopped buying GW minis because I hate having to paint all of the extraneous detail on them. Blood Bowl figures not included in this general announcement.

That said, I love these new Sisters of Battle figures. I am also amazed at the painting of the red tabards in these models as well as the faces. Incredible work.

I'd be half tempted to pick these up if I wasn't going to spend the last of my cash on the 7TV Flash Gordon models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 14, 2020, 08:05:52 PM
Quote from: aircav on January 10, 2020, 05:31:42 PM
Picked up a couple today for the wraiths, don’t know what I will do with the Sigmarines though (although the kids might want to chuck some paint at em)   ???

If you still haven't decided and your kids don't want em - there are always school clubs, one of which folks are already sending some to: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=122008.0
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on January 15, 2020, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: Cherno on January 13, 2020, 06:47:16 PM
Today while in a local supermarket, in the newspaper & magazine section, I noticed a new magazine by Games Workshop centered around the 40k universe.

Is this a separate publication to the Age of Sigmar one that has previously been mentioned? I've seen neither so far, but then I no longer go to WH Smith, and seldom visit large supermarkets. Also, I'm broke.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 15, 2020, 08:09:30 PM
I would assume cherno is outside of the UK and this is possibly somewhere they are trialing or have launched the 40k Conquest series. It's been going in the UK for over a year now and you can't get it in stores anymore I believe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on January 15, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 15, 2020, 08:09:30 PM
I would assume cherno is outside of the UK and this is possibly somewhere they are trialing or have launched the 40k Conquest series. It's been going in the UK for over a year now and you can't get it in stores anymore I believe.

No, it's a new Age of Sigmar publication in the UK. Going by the name of Mortal Realms.
First issue in the shops last week - I think issue 2 is out tomorrow.
https://www.warhammermortalrealms.com/

The 40K one was (IIRC) two years ago.
A version of Mortal Realms was trialled in the north of England earlier this year (as is typical of these products) but this is a full countrywide release.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on January 15, 2020, 08:22:30 PM
I'm still able to pick up the odd issue of Conquest in my local WH Smith's. I think they generally just have it for standing orders but get a couple extra copies on top. Depending on what kit is included they bounce off the shelves pretty quickly so it's a total lottery as to whether I can get the good ones.

Anything with just paint tends to hang around though...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 15, 2020, 11:39:09 PM
Quote from: TWD on January 15, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
No, it's a new Age of Sigmar publication in the UK. Going by the name of Mortal Realms.
First issue in the shops last week - I think issue 2 is out tomorrow.
https://www.warhammermortalrealms.com/

The 40K one was (IIRC) two years ago.
A version of Mortal Realms was trialled in the north of England earlier this year (as is typical of these products) but this is a full countrywide release.

See:

Quote from: Cherno on January 13, 2020, 06:47:16 PM
Today while in a local supermarket, in the newspaper & magazine section, I noticed a new magazine by Games Workshop centered around the 40k universe. It is one of these "collect something over a dozen issues, with each one containing a tiny bit of it" affairs. In this case, the first issue had sprues of Ultramarines ("Your first Citadel miniatures!") plus bases and three pots of Citadel paints (blue, red and something else), and of course the magazine. The advertised price was €1.99, I guess it will be quite a bit higher for the following issues. I didn't look at it more closely as I was at work, though. I found it quite interesting  :)

I know the mortal realms one is out. I have a copy. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 16, 2020, 01:09:53 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 15, 2020, 11:39:09 PM
See:

I know the mortal realms one is out. I have a copy. :)

IIRC they restarted the 40K version in a few new markets
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on January 16, 2020, 02:58:22 PM
That must be the case, given the different setting, price, and the inclusion of paints. I've just got a copy of Mortal Realms from the Warhammer shop, and the only 40K publication they knew of was Conquest. BTW I don't suppose we can complain that the first issue of MR costs £1 more than Conquest...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on January 20, 2020, 05:18:23 PM
Has anyone seen the video released today about the Citadel air paint range?

Not only is it bad enough pouring paint into an airbrush cup from a Citadel paint pot, the video clearly shows a big lump going I to the cup... nice way to bung up your airbrush I'm sure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on January 20, 2020, 05:27:29 PM
I wonder whether GW are hoping to benefit from this campaign:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/droptop/droptop-by-drtabletop?ref=profile_saved_projects_live
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on January 20, 2020, 05:52:28 PM
Why is it that Age of Sigmar: Mortal Realms isn't available in the US? Aside from the figures, what are the contents of the magazine?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cherno on January 20, 2020, 08:21:45 PM
The magazine I saw in the supermarket was Warhammer 40,000 Conquest, which apparently came out in the UK months ago. I might have seen some White Dwarf issues years ago in regular shops but to see something like this was weird. GW really must have a good market access.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 20, 2020, 10:55:45 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on January 20, 2020, 05:52:28 PM
Why is it that Age of Sigmar: Mortal Realms isn't available in the US? Aside from the figures, what are the contents of the magazine?

Always been the way. Done in the UK first, where the primary market is I guess, or perhaps the guaranteed market is? Then sometimes rolled out elsewhere.

Could be licensing. US not listed on one of their national markets though, so could have something to do with that. https://hachettepartworks.com/home/about
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 20, 2020, 11:34:31 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 20, 2020, 10:55:45 PM
Always been the way. Done in the UK first, where the primary market is I guess, or perhaps the guaranteed market is? Then sometimes rolled out elsewhere.

I don't think that the company that puts out these periodicals does them in the US. Years ago there were some for the LoTR movies that had minis and they were in the UK only.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on January 21, 2020, 01:39:37 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 20, 2020, 10:55:45 PM
Always been the way. Done in the UK first, where the primary market is I guess, or perhaps the guaranteed market is? Then sometimes rolled out elsewhere.

Could be licensing. US not listed on one of their national markets though, so could have something to do with that. https://hachettepartworks.com/home/about
Is this why GW closed down its US factory? AFAIK, none of these loss leaders have been rolled out in the US and I don't think factor in UK GW's decisions, other than being a source for profits and possible subsidization.

On eBay, I once came across a UK White Dwarf with a free metal Aenur model and should've picked it up, as it was cheaper than buying the figure, but already had the US issue.:( It's possible there's some law against supplying "toys" with magazines... ;D 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on January 21, 2020, 04:14:18 AM
Are you sure GW ever had a significant manufacturing presence in the US?
I receive sprues of plastics with my Wargames Illustrated magazine frequently so the US postal system seems to have no issue delivering them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on January 21, 2020, 05:16:06 AM
Quote from: syrinx0 on January 21, 2020, 04:14:18 AM
Are you sure GW ever had a significant manufacturing presence in the US?
I receive sprues of plastics with my Wargames Illustrated magazine frequently so the US postal system seems to have no issue delivering them.
AFAIK, they had a manufacturing facility, but I don't recall where it was and when it was shutdown - https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/601282.page;jsessionid=0B094989B1A017BC0BD7B2F97F7824AC#6949604 (https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/601282.page;jsessionid=0B094989B1A017BC0BD7B2F97F7824AC#6949604) - and didn't make a difference in the price. I remember for ~$19.99 you could get a regiment box of 12-20 figures, with metal parts for command, a movement tray and stickers for banners. :(

On a related note, was checking the GW contact page (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Contact-Us) and came across these holidays:


Good Friday is an holiday in Tennessee, but what's Emperor's Day?  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on January 21, 2020, 09:45:10 AM
Meanwhile...

Another paean to the commercial success of GW (and its ballooning value as a stock) in the business pages of today's Times...

Given the company's total market valuation is now far, far bigger than a number of huge, successful and well-known UK businesses and brands - and yet GW's market is de facto limited by demographics (like it's 90% teenage boys), the whole thing still feels like a ridiculously massive bubble to me. But it's certainly a darling of the stock markets right now.

I quote the entire piece below...
Enjoy, you GW enthusiasts ;)

---------

"Games Workshop delivers a heroic tale for the modern age of investing...

Sometimes a business is so unexpectedly successful for its shareholders that it demands attention. Games Workshop, the maker and seller of Warhammer toy soldiers, is one of them.

For years this was a barely noticed, tiny business that toddled along in its own narrow niche, a rather dweeby niche, stumbling occasionally and making little apparent progress. Then, from 2016, it took off. The shares have rocketed from less than £5 to £70 in the space of four years. The company is now valued at £2.3 billion, considerably more than Dixons Carphone, say, or William Hill or JD Wetherspoon.

Stock market stars don’t normally do this. They usually go up like a rocket from launch and frequently come down just as quickly. Fevertree, the fizzy drinks group that has warned about it profits, seems to be well in to the second phase of this trajectory.

Games Workshop has been different, more of a sleeping giant. And for any entrepreneur who feels stuck in a low-growth rut, for any stockpicker who dreams of making 14 times their money, there are potential lessons here. For example, how on earth could a piddling maker of plastic figurines have become one of Britain’s 25 most valuable manufacturers? And was it possible to identify the signs of its coming success back in 2016?

Unreliable stuff, hindsight, but Charles Hall, a top-ranked analyst with Peel Hunt, the company’s house broker, believes that there were clues at the time and had a “buy” rating on the company even then. This, he says, “was a hidden gem in plain sight”.

Perhaps the biggest “buy” signal was the way in which the rise of social media was changing the world. Games Workshop was in the process of transforming itself from a company resistant to the phenomenon to one harnessing it. Previously it had regarded digital technology as a threat, one that would lure tabletop hobbyists away from physical products. Instead, the rise of Facebook and Instagram were to dramatically boost the hobby. Gamers have become more absorbed, more immersed in Warhammer’s fantasy world and better able to connect with millions of like-minded people around the globe. Seventy-six per cent of sales are now outside the UK. The network effects have been potent. Far from being a threat, social media has been a transformative boon.

Another reason for Warhammer’s success was the decision in 2015 to simplify the rules and popularise the games. Purists hated that, the complexity was the point for them, but it brought in far more youngsters (the main market is 12 to 18-year-old boys) than it alienated and started to appeal more to girls, too. Games Workshop also started to promote itself to schools (2,000 of them now run after-school Warhammer clubs) and the scouts (who dish out badges for Warhammer, as well as for camping and hillwalking).

It was a clue for sharp-eyed investors that the company was more prepared to popularise and monetise its assets. So was the decision to start licencing its carefully realised characters. New management under Kevin Rountree, a former PWC accountant, signalled a gradual change of heart on licencing, which has scooped in £10.7 million in the last six months alone. A television series based on the Warhammer character Eisenhorn, which has already spawned books, computer games and figurines, is being developed.

One other factor contributing to Games Workshop’s success was perhaps its decade in the wilderness. It had briefly prospered on the back of the Lord of the Rings movies in the early Noughties, making figures from the trilogy. That flurry of business quickly dissipated, leaving the company forced to cut costs, close shops and shed staff. It led to years of pain and restructuring, but left the business leaner and wiser. In future it would nurture its own IP, not piggyback off someone else’s. Now it employs 290 highly creative people designing new fantasy worlds, figures and stories — “our fortress wall”, the company says. Add to that the 500 stores worldwide where customers are encouraged to socialise, paint and play in person — “our fortress moat”.

The results speak for themselves. Profits are up from £17 million in 2016 to a forecast £96 million for the year that will end in May. Investor sentiment also has been transformed. The shares now trade on a price/earnings multiple of thirty times, as against an unloved ten times in 2016. Patience, attention to detail, the imagination to harness new technologies and a willingness to risk customer ire by changing the rules (literally) have all paid off handsomely.

The fabulous valuation comes at a cost, of course. Shareholders (from George Soros to JP Morgan) are likely to punish any disappointment in future. Mr Kirby used to warn of the pressures of having to meet shareholders’ growth expectations, saying that it could lead to “truly lamentable decisions”. Today’s management will need to be doubly vigilant they don’t adulterate the magic formula. Hornby, which has a market value of only £49 million, one-fiftieth the size of Games Workshop, shows that much-loved toys alone are not enough to build a successful business.

Active stockpicking is out of fashion. Passive investment is far cheaper and usually produces better returns. After the Neil Woodford debacle, confidence in star sharepickers is in the basement. But being able to identify future winners is important if actives are ever to stem the tide towards index tracking.

It would be silly to suggest that Games Workshop was an obvious “buy” in 2016. But there were clues. Unless we recognise that, active stockpicking is heading for even deeper trouble.

In the dark, brutal, dystopian world of Warhammer 40,000 years in the future, the four Chaos Gods are said to keep up a plentiful supply of wrath, violence and general mayhem. How agreeable that they have served up such a gentle winner back in the real world".

Patrick Hosking is Financial Editor of The Times

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on January 21, 2020, 10:03:25 AM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/574/takemymoney.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on January 22, 2020, 03:54:22 AM
Next Week’s GW Products & Pricing CONFIRMED (https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/01/next-weeks-gw-products-pricing-confirmed-5.html)

:o :o :o
 :( :( :(

MDF appears to be a cheaper alternative...


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 22, 2020, 08:34:11 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on January 21, 2020, 01:39:37 AM
Is this why GW closed down its US factory? AFAIK, none of these loss leaders have been rolled out in the US and I don't think factor in UK GW's decisions, other than being a source for profits and possible subsidization.

On eBay, I once came across a UK White Dwarf with a free metal Aenur model and should've picked it up, as it was cheaper than buying the figure, but already had the US issue.:( It's possible there's some law against supplying "toys" with magazines... ;D

No. GW are not the distributer of the magazine, I gave a link to the distributer which is where I said I got the infor from...

Nothing to do with factories in the US or elsewhere...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 22, 2020, 10:01:41 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on January 21, 2020, 05:16:06 AM

Good Friday is an holiday in Tennessee, but what's Emperor's Day?  :?

https://nationaltoday.com/october-holidays/
These are the possibilities. My bet's on national liqueur day  lol.
In other words, booze 'til you snooze-day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 22, 2020, 12:10:05 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on January 21, 2020, 01:39:37 AM
Is this why GW closed down its US factory? AFAIK, none of these loss leaders have been rolled out in the US and I don't think factor in UK GW's decisions, other than being a source for profits and possible subsidization.

Somewhere around 2004 or so, when visiting GW Nottingham's offices, I was told that the US facility was there purely for insurance reasons. Should the UK facility burn down, they would have a fall back option. Why they chose a US location for this, I have no idea.

I suppose with the advent of outsourcing their production (to China for a while even), this was no longer required, and they shut it down. Probably during the Kirby Decline?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 22, 2020, 09:59:47 PM
Any idea when it was opened up? When I worked for GW for a brief time in 1998 I was told that GW's approach to repeat the UK business model in the US hadn't worked initially because the market was already more used to buying products via mail order and were less reliant upon stores for purchases. They realised the internet was more important for them than having a store.

I would hazard a guess that this initial move to the US may have included a factory to mimic the UK set up. However, perhaps they realised that due to it being a more mail order market that they didn't necessarily need a factory to meet the demands in the same way, or perhaps lesser demand than expected. Then as you say, Chinese production combining with that resulting in the US factory being kept as insurance before they decided it wasn't needed at all?

Supposition I know.

But still. None of this has anything to do with Hachette distribution.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on January 22, 2020, 11:29:15 PM
GW US Headquarters was in Glen Burnie Maryland. I dont know what they actually made there but I do know they had bins and bins of pewter not in boxes or blisters yet. Whether it was shipped from the UK then packaged or it was cast here I have no idea. I knew a few guys who got jobs there thinking they were going to be the next WD writer/editor some day. The big draw was you could buy pewter miniatures per gram for cheap. Or just scoop some up in your pocket as one guy did, he came in one time with a pocket full of warhammer quest wardancers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 22, 2020, 11:42:55 PM
As staff back in the tail end of the '90s if you 'graduated' (become a fully indoctrinated fully fledged red shirt) you could go to Nottingham HQ and buy miniatures by weight. This is back when they were metal. I can't remember what the £ per weight ratio was but it was silly good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on January 23, 2020, 05:48:51 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on January 22, 2020, 11:42:55 PM
As staff back in the tail end of the '90s if you 'graduated' (become a fully indoctrinated fully fledged red shirt) you could go to Nottingham HQ and buy miniatures by weight. This is back when they were metal. I can't remember what the £ per weight ratio was but it was silly good.

I hear you can do the same now, but it is in plastic and you have to go to China......

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 23, 2020, 10:09:04 PM
 lol

Mostly terrain then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on January 24, 2020, 05:35:41 AM
Zoat!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on January 24, 2020, 09:56:21 AM
OOoooooooOOOOooooohhhhhhhh.....!  :o

Yes, please!  :-*

That's going to be horribly expensive though, isn't it... ?  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 24, 2020, 12:42:02 PM
My guess is cost of Ambull

Also the shown high elves
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/01/24/from-aelves-to-zoats-previews-from-lvogw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-1/?fbclid=IwAR2Q1uSSC7CaJhwqjWKsZrm-8ducEOgJOF55XM9npHWOkoiASwslXWpQcuI
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shahbahraz on January 24, 2020, 02:00:47 PM
Have to love the overblown GW hyperbole...  'From the earliest days of Warhammer Age of Sigmar' - like it was a stone circle from 5,000 BC. It came out in 2015 FFS.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on January 24, 2020, 02:25:25 PM
I have to love robot horses, empty armour guy and Teclis's MC Hammer pants...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on January 24, 2020, 02:33:54 PM
Damn, looks like I need to follow tradition and get my old zoat(s) painted before the new one gets released :)

At this rate GW will be releasing Piscean warriors, Cthellan Cudbears, Enslavers, and Space Minotaurs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on January 24, 2020, 03:01:25 PM
Those skitarri horse skirmishers with a headswap could be some cracking space western cowboys ? The flying jobby would be good for a necromunda spyrer?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on January 24, 2020, 05:28:22 PM
Oh I want one :-* and I will feed it the mandatory 3 zoatabix a day! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on January 24, 2020, 05:29:40 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on January 24, 2020, 02:33:54 PM
Damn, looks like I need to follow tradition and get my old zoat(s) painted before the new one gets released :)

At this rate GW will be releasing Piscean warriors, Cthellan Cudbears, Enslavers, and Space Minotaurs.

I bloody hope so!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 25, 2020, 05:14:13 PM
Fuck yes to the zoat. Wonder how big it is going to be?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 25, 2020, 08:04:59 PM
Some new Necromunda releases up

Corpse Grinder Cult Gang (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Necromunda-Corpse-Grinder-Cult-2020)

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120599013_CorpseGrinderCult01.jpg)

Palanite Subjugator Patrol (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Necromunda-Palanite-Subjugator-Patrol-2020) - the one with the sewing machine foot  o_o

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120599012_PalaniteSubjucatorPatrol01.jpg)

I'm not sure about the corpse grinders. I think they may grow on me if I consider them in a outdoor wasteland setting, rather than an underhive.

I like the subjugators, but yuo only get six for the price of a full gang - I guess royalties to Singer pushed up the cost o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 25, 2020, 08:07:05 PM
The underhive is pretty vast and parts of it like wasteland, but also nothing to say that your hive fights occur on the edges of the base of the hive so perhaps some collapsed areas of what was once part of the dome way back...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 25, 2020, 09:07:11 PM
Look at the sprues. They are the same but Shields lock a lot of space and there are 3 of them per sprue

I would love me Pisceans.
I got Ambull from Spain half year before new Ambull from GW..
Now I am waiting for Pisceans and Spaniards are loosing revenue :P
(I would but them already if they have 5 poses but there are only 2 of them and I want a smalish band
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on January 26, 2020, 04:00:41 AM
These been brought up before? I'm surprised there are still sculptors at GW who know how to make a decent horse... ::)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/130ebc40.jpg)(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/a95ec68e.jpg)(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/41fb8e70.jpg)(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/f8c1a99d.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on January 26, 2020, 04:50:49 AM
Not a big fan of the Teclis model - not sure what is going on with Teclis himself - it looks like he's just been placed there as an afterthought - not sure if it is the angle of the photo or not but it looks a bit odd...

I like the cavalry the best, they look really good.

We play a fair bit of 9th Age and one of the guys plays Highborn (High) Elves and he's pretty happy that he is finally able to get rid of the horrible 6th edition Warhammer Spearelves he's been using...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on January 26, 2020, 05:54:42 AM
The High Elves are beautiful - great detail (with, admittedly, a standard of painting I'll never achieve). That "Celennar" is stunning.

Red Kop - there's a (very) quick video of the model - it looks better from other angles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on January 26, 2020, 09:50:06 AM
The cavalry looks almost good. I wonder if it's just the angle of the photo. lol

(Or maybe the lack of steampunk and skulls?)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von Lucky on January 26, 2020, 10:12:46 AM
...aaannnnddd I think I know why I love the Celennar - reminds me of Kingdom Death lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on January 26, 2020, 10:32:22 AM
That empty suit of armour is extremely well done.

I did not notice the bloke perched on the weird critter's wing. Okay he is floating in front of it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 26, 2020, 12:57:36 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on January 26, 2020, 10:32:22 AM
That empty suit of armour is extremely well done.

GW definitely has been stepping up the complexity of their plastic models over the years, and its very cool to see them do something like this with it. Much more feasible in plastic then say metal.


The masked sphynx isn't particularly ground breaking, (kingdom death indeed) but it looks pretty cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 26, 2020, 01:11:06 PM
I'm not a huge fan of "tactical scenery" but that monster is ace. I like the new spear-elves too, although I would be tempted to cut the helmet crests off.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 26, 2020, 03:04:27 PM
Quote from: von Lucky on January 26, 2020, 05:54:42 AM
Red Kop - there's a (very) quick video of the model - it looks better from other angles.

It does look better in the video but he is oddly static. Especially considering the concept art they have that shows him leaping into action
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on January 26, 2020, 06:51:08 PM
I like the phrase 'tactical scenery' it's a lovely way to say it's bloody useless trying to move it .Coz it'll break.
I'm not a fan of such oversized pieces on a table.It might as well be a roleplay session once everyones put static pieces on a table then It's just chucking dice at  dioramas
Admittedly I'd happily paint one if given half a chance.
I'd just half to do something about that 'Fortnight T pose.' It's a little too Manga for my tastes .
There's a couple of design choices that seem odd but I'll end up with some at some point.As these are the only elves I've been tempted by since the Griffin in the Blood Island set.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 26, 2020, 08:34:12 PM
My main concern would be what will follow an Elven god if the inevitable power-creep keeps upping the ante for factions down the line. An extinction-level asteroid strike for the Orruks?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on January 26, 2020, 09:44:33 PM
This is not the first elven god so.. :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 27, 2020, 07:00:37 PM
I think the Teclis has some potential if you surgerize him to separate him and the sphinx and then just use them as standalone units (put him on a flight stand or just touching a small rock base or whatever.

In theory I mean - you'd obviously have to make stats for them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hupp n at em on January 27, 2020, 07:54:16 PM
Woah, they finally fixed the high elf helmets to look decent, shocked.  Looks a bit like they ripped off the Peter Jackson LOTR design though  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: powerfrog99 on January 27, 2020, 08:44:56 PM
I really really like these Elven troops  :-*
I can only agree that  These are a proper replacement for the old ones (I never bought!)
Let‘s hope the scale fits well to the Blood Island stuff;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 27, 2020, 08:51:07 PM
It might just be the paintjob, but those elves (sorry, aelves  o_o) are really making me think of one of the Warcry factions.

Agree about putting Teclis on a flight-stand too. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ady on January 28, 2020, 02:15:45 PM
Some of the high elves look nice to me - not sure about the legs on the horses though.. Theres just something about them...

Mind you, the same could be said about all the recent horses GW do so it's probably me :)

I don't like the Teclis model though - the rather large crescent moon/horns on the helmet just look ridiculous...… I guess all the high Elf buildings must have 'T' shaped doorways
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on January 29, 2020, 02:55:43 PM
Apologies if this has been shared before. Came across these by accident and found it useful.

Details the contents of the Warhammer: Conquest magazine.

https://www.fauxhammer.com/news/spoiler-alert-full-warhammer-conquest-magazine-contents-leaked/ (https://www.fauxhammer.com/news/spoiler-alert-full-warhammer-conquest-magazine-contents-leaked/)

This link details the contents of Warhammer: Mortal Realms magazine.

https://www.fauxhammer.com/news/warhammer-mortal-realms-magazine-issues-1-12-content-confirmed/ (https://www.fauxhammer.com/news/warhammer-mortal-realms-magazine-issues-1-12-content-confirmed/)

What I particularly liked was that they tried to calculate the value of the contents in each magazine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 01, 2020, 06:04:21 AM
New Goliath brutes and Juves have been previewed for Necro. Can't stand the brutes. Juves are kinda interesting - possibly one male and one female body? Hard to tell.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/1eac589e.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/acd02dfc.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on February 01, 2020, 06:41:37 AM
I wonder why the Juves aren't armed with basic pistols and pipes...they seem to be carrying the heavier equipment.

The Brutes would make good Orks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 01, 2020, 06:58:32 AM
New Ogre and Nurgle Underworlds are up for preorder as well. I'll be getting that ogre (quite like the nurgle ones too though!). Not for underworld but for the generic army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on February 01, 2020, 08:14:45 AM
The Brute looks like he comes from The World Eaters' home world.

Games Workshop's sculptures have an unhealthy obsession with sewing machines, as shown by one of the juves.

I agree, I thought juves were cheap choices with cheap weapons.

I hate autocorrect.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 01, 2020, 10:37:15 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on February 01, 2020, 06:41:37 AM
I wonder why the Juves aren't armed with basic pistols and pipes...they seem to be carrying the heavier equipment.

The Brutes would make good Orks.

I agree abt the Orkish element. Still a terrible model though  :) In the old Freebooterz book you could take human mercs who wanted to be Orks. Always thought Goliaths should have been like that (just as confrontation-era Bratts model themselves on Eldar).

As for the Juves, I think they're meant to be factory workers trying out for the gang, or something? So they bring their tools with them - haven't graduated to having proper weapons yet.

Mr Smurf: that is some excellent autocorrect there  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on February 01, 2020, 01:06:23 PM
Agree, brute looks ordinary, but juves are nice. I've been thinking of doing a space Luddite gang: they'd fit nicely.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 01, 2020, 04:30:37 PM
Brutes might look better with different paintjob really - this one is not serving them well.

Of coursejuves (or prospects) have to be shown week after Ive built my juve from CorpseGrinder  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 02, 2020, 01:22:51 AM
I hardly noticed the Necromunda figs with the announcement of Tau aircraft for Aeronautic Imperialis. Finally decent aircraft for my Epic Tau force.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on February 03, 2020, 09:21:08 AM
Weird, the Goliath Juves are called Forge-Born Prospects, that are trying to get in the gang, so not Juves yet :/

So they have heavy/special weapons, then become Juves and are given pistols instead? Will need to look through the book when I gets it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 04, 2020, 01:57:09 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 01, 2020, 06:04:21 AM
New Goliath brutes and Juves have been previewed for Necro. Can't stand the brutes. Juves are kinda interesting - possibly one male and one female body? Hard to tell.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/1eac589e.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/acd02dfc.jpg)

Those Brutes are Stimmers - IIRC, Xtreme Goliaths probably larger and might be Specialist Champions - and come on a 40mm bases and the juves can be used as juves or prospects, a level below juve on 25mm bases. ;D

House of Chains will be another supplement... ::)

(https://yaktribe.games/community/media/bbb341d4-1e0d-4a15-b919-630b546ee69f-jpeg.43334/full)

Necromunda is becoming organized:

(https://yaktribe.games/community/attachments/50692537_230698444536165_448039701144666112_n-jpg.103983/)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on February 04, 2020, 06:33:57 AM
So...every gang is getting their own Codex then? Seems a bit much.

I don't like the idea of tiny guys carrying big weapons...surely the young'uns wouldn't be trusted or have the strength to wield them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on February 04, 2020, 08:49:18 AM
It does feel like its getting out of hand, and we are still missing 6 original gangs, Spyrers/Brats, Ratskins, Redemptionists, Pit Slaves, Scavies, and Ash Waste Nomads.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 04, 2020, 11:02:03 AM
I'm keen to see some scavvies. They'd be great, and spyrers that aren't OP.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 04, 2020, 02:04:59 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on February 04, 2020, 06:33:57 AM
So...every gang is getting their own Codex then? Seems a bit much.

Agreed!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 04, 2020, 03:06:44 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on February 04, 2020, 06:33:57 AM
So...every gang is getting their own Codex then? Seems a bit much.

That is their business model now. Produce a base game and then come out with accessories and books.

AoS has the Endless Spells and terrain pieces. 40K has campaign books and datacards. Nexromunda has lots and lots of books

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 04, 2020, 03:38:05 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on February 04, 2020, 06:33:57 AM
So...every gang is getting their own Codex then? Seems a bit much.
Who knows... :-I

There's no guarantee that these books won't be re-released in a consolidated form in a year or two, like the Gang War titles. I'm used to buying Warhammer Army books every 4 years, but with Ao$, titles are re-released every two years. >:( I wouldn't have minded if the products had great artwork and/or fluff and cost less than or as much as an Osprey Men-At-Arms title, but when each is $40+, you begin to lose interest. The General's Compendium used to be $25, then became $35 with less pages and the e-book is $25 - you're paying half-bothered rules and errata! At least the Necromunda books have evocative art, but the rules are all over the place and supplements can contradict each other - in the recent errata, Palanite Enforcers can now buy from the general market.   

Quote from: Lost Egg on February 04, 2020, 06:33:57 AM
I don't like the idea of tiny guys carrying big weapons...surely the young'uns wouldn't be trusted or have the strength to wield them.
The figures look like they're having some difficulty lugging the gear and a reliance on straps, unlike the regular Goliaths... 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FionaWhite on February 05, 2020, 02:36:17 AM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on February 03, 2020, 09:21:08 AM
Weird, the Goliath Juves are called Forge-Born Prospects, that are trying to get in the gang, so not Juves yet :/

So they have heavy/special weapons, then become Juves and are given pistols instead? Will need to look through the book when I gets it.

Well, with all the 'roids they're taking it's no wonder their reasoning capabilities are starting to go.    ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 05, 2020, 11:39:33 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on February 04, 2020, 03:38:05 PM
Who knows... :-I

There's no guarantee that these books won't be re-released in a consolidated form in a year or two, like the Gang War titles. I'm used to buying Warhammer Army books every 4 years, but with Ao$, titles are re-released every two years. >:( I wouldn't have minded if the products had great artwork and/or fluff and cost less than or as much as an Osprey Men-At-Arms title, but when each is $40+, you begin to lose interest. The General's Compendium used to be $25, then became $35 with less pages and the e-book is $25 - you're paying half-bothered rules and errata! At least the Necromunda books have evocative art, but the rules are all over the place and supplements can contradict each other - in the recent errata, Palanite Enforcers can now buy from the general market.   
The figures look like they're having some difficulty lugging the gear and a reliance on straps, unlike the regular Goliaths...

Actually they've stated they won't be doing consolidation books again.

The rules aren't half bothered either. At least, not since ditching the gang war books which I think was their way to get a game out as quickly as possible which had consistency issues and required you to have all of them more or less. At least now, if you have the Gangs of the Underhive book and the Rulebook, you can play games quite happily without needing any of the others.

The only thing I am not sure about at the moment is the ease in which gangs can get special weapons. Especially the likes of cultists. In the campaign we're running at the moment a chaos cultist gang has played 2 games and already has two flamers and two grenade launchers as well as the witch who can shoot flames from their eyes (S2 flamer).

But that is literally my only quibble right now - otherwise it's a good system and the rulebook is massively improved from what we had before which was like a fighting fantasy book of old but spread over several publications. Most of the books now have all of the rules for new equipment bar those that are already listed in the weapon traits etc in the underhive book.

The new goliath figures, at least the ones you are talking about, are meant to look like they are struggling a bit more. I believe they are effectively juves. Which is ace. Exactly as they should be, not fully roided up yet, still earning their badges but trying to go to town the way the fully beefed up members do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 06, 2020, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on February 05, 2020, 11:39:33 PM
Actually they've stated they won't be doing consolidation books again.

The rules aren't half bothered either. At least, not since ditching the gang war books which I think was their way to get a game out as quickly as possible which had consistency issues and required you to have all of them more or less. At least now, if you have the Gangs of the Underhive book and the Rulebook, you can play games quite happily without needing any of the others.

The only thing I am not sure about at the moment is the ease in which gangs can get special weapons. Especially the likes of cultists. In the campaign we're running at the moment a chaos cultist gang has played 2 games and already has two flamers and two grenade launchers as well as the witch who can shoot flames from their eyes (S2 flamer).

But that is literally my only quibble right now - otherwise it's a good system and the rulebook is massively improved from what we had before which was like a fighting fantasy book of old but spread over several publications. Most of the books now have all of the rules for new equipment bar those that are already listed in the weapon traits etc in the underhive book.

The new goliath figures, at least the ones you are talking about, are meant to look like they are struggling a bit more. I believe they are effectively juves. Which is ace. Exactly as they should be, not fully roided up yet, still earning their badges but trying to go to town the way the fully beefed up members do.

 ::)

The half-bothered is in reference to Ao$, but you knew that and regarding Necromunda, the community (https://yaktribe.games/) differs from your view.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 07, 2020, 12:02:59 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on February 04, 2020, 08:49:18 AM
It does feel like its getting out of hand,

Tbh, I'm really cutting back on GW-stuff because of this. I like the odd game and I appreciate them actively supporting their "specialist" games after a couple of years, but the urge to own every add-on, book and model for a system has gone. I like to buy the basic game on release, get myself a couple of gangs and if I'm really into the game buy an expansion book for it but that's it.
But to explore the game and it's latest releases for year after year, no. There's a lot more to play and purchase than everything GW releases and I only got so much time and so much ( or little  ;D ) budget...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 07, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on February 06, 2020, 12:35:29 AM
::)

The half-bothered is in reference to Ao$, but you knew that and regarding Necromunda, the community (https://yaktribe.games/) differs from your view.

I didn't know that - be clearer next time.

You literally just linked to the yaktribe community... I was referring to the 2017 release of the rules, not the 1995 ones, because we are talking about modern releases. And for what it's worth, yaktribe supports both old and new versions of Necromunda.

Sometimes it is very clear you are just wanting to instigate arguments for arguments sake when you clearly know little about what is going on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 07, 2020, 09:04:16 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on February 04, 2020, 08:49:18 AM
It does feel like its getting out of hand, and we are still missing 6 original gangs, Spyrers/Brats, Ratskins, Redemptionists, Pit Slaves, Scavies, and Ash Waste Nomads.

I agree with the sentiment. I have Redemptionists and Ratskins waiting to get to the table again as well as Scavies now. However, I will point out that Ash Waste Nomads were not an original '95 gang release or part of Outlanders. I think their rules came later in the fanatic magazine as part of the specialist games range around the same sort of time the Orlock and other gangs had new sculpts added.

Brats were a Confrontation gang which they are talking about bringing back. Spyrers have been said to not be returning in the form of a gang. So with the way the Goliath book is looking, could be possible that they do an uphive book of some sort for Brats with Spyrers has specialist hired guns maybe? In a similar vein, I would hope to see Redemptionists as part of a book focusing on the Cult of Redemption which could delve into the belief systems behind Cawdor and how they are connected to the even more fanatical Redemptionists. Could see some hugely fun characters going with those!

I'm not sure pit slaves as a gang had rules released as part of Outlanders either. As hired guns yes. Ratskin hired guns were part of the '95 starter rules as well. But then we don't have the Wyrd's either at this point.

Ratskins is one a few folks have been talking about. I wouldn't be surprised to see them return to a more Dogskin theme of the confrontation gang which was less 1st nation orientated. In theory, due to their style etc, they could be coupled in a book with the Ash Waste Nomads.

That's just going on the previous books which typically have featured the rules for two gangs in each. Plenty of reason to be hopeful yet.  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 07, 2020, 09:32:21 PM
Spyrers were actually the 95 version of Brats: uphive nobles going on downhive killing sprees. As McFonz says, Nomads eventually got some models and rules for Necro, but nothing seemed very well thought-out and the minis are really odd. (Why does everyone have only one sleeve? Marauder Nomads are way more fun).

I am very nervous about the scavvies. GW's scavvy miniatures have been steadily downhill in my opinion. Goodwin Confrontation scavvies > Marauder confrontation scavvies > Morley's horribly cartoony 95 scavvies > half-bothered redux gang for Specialist Games (actually one of those bosses was OK).

I love the original idea of scavvies, and with GW's current capabilities they could make a fuckin amazing plastic kit. Not sure they will though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on February 07, 2020, 09:43:28 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on February 07, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
You literally just linked to the yaktribe community... I was referring to the 2017 release of the rules, not the 1995 ones, because we are talking about modern releases. And for what it's worth, yaktribe supports both old and new versions of Necromunda.
Not sure what you meant to say there; the second point seems to counter the first one? Condottiere said many on Yaktribe were not particularly positive about Necromunda (the latest version), having some detailed threads with all inconsistencies between books and the likes. Then you said this was irrelevant (implying Yaktribe focuses on the '95 edition?), followed by saying the website features both?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 07, 2020, 09:51:51 PM
If they do scavvies I'm looking forward to seeing the Scaly. I'm imagining a huge beast of a mutant this time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 07, 2020, 10:23:30 PM
I’d be interested on their take on ratskins this time .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 08, 2020, 10:43:39 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on February 07, 2020, 09:43:28 PM
Not sure what you meant to say there; the second point seems to counter the first one? Condottiere said many on Yaktribe were not particularly positive about Necromunda (the latest version), having some detailed threads with all inconsistencies between books and the likes. Then you said this was irrelevant (implying Yaktribe focuses on the '95 edition?), followed by saying the website features both?

My point was, dumping a link to the front page of yaktribe means nothing. I'm not going to trawl a forum to find threads if someone else is to lazy to link to the ones they feel say otherwise.

I haven't said anything was irrelevant - just that it wasn't clear what Condi was alluding to by just dropping the front page. I guessed that it might be that '95 is better than modern. Which, if you go back to what I was saying, wasn't my point. My point was the Rulebook and Gangs of the Underhive are vast improvements on the Gang War releases owing to have to flip backwards and forwards between them all and the boxed game rule book and the inconsistencies between them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 08, 2020, 10:47:25 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 07, 2020, 09:32:21 PM
Spyrers were actually the 95 version of Brats: uphive nobles going on downhive killing sprees. As McFonz says, Nomads eventually got some models and rules for Necro, but nothing seemed very well thought-out and the minis are really odd. (Why does everyone have only one sleeve? Marauder Nomads are way more fun).

Yeah, similar fluff but depiction was incredibly different. Where they differed on fluff is that Brats where typically more flamboyant weren't they? Where as Spyrers are more spec ops teams of assassins who didn't want to be easily linked back to their sources. Almost like Batman not wanting people to know he is Bruce Wayne.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on February 10, 2020, 09:39:48 AM
Also, Bratz were more on par with regular gangs in terms of numbers and equipment, albeit with newer, flashier weapons and cleaner, brighter clothes, while Spyrers were more of a one-(wo)man army. In fluff, they usually operated alone too, if I recall correctly.

And Spyrers going down into the underhive, all kitted out in a powered suit of choice, were doing so as a rite of passage to be allowed to take up an actual ruling position within their families. Bratz were just spoilt rich, well, brats, who went slumming out of boredom and for kicks.

Exactly like Lexandro D'Arquebus (the later Imperial Fists captain) did with his bike gang, swooping down the central vents of Necromunda Prime to drive-by shoot unsuspecting factory workers in the lower levels, just for fun...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on February 10, 2020, 10:48:35 AM
I'd rather see Bratz than Spyrers, just kind of irritating when you have older gangs/factions being left to gather dust, not to mention the new Guilder add-on's that have no miniatures, yet they shoe horned Genestealers and two Chaos cults in (Helots and Corpse Grinders).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 11, 2020, 06:04:20 PM
Enter the House of Chains  (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/11/enter-the-house-of-chainsgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/)
Quote
House of Chains introduces Prospects into gangs for the first time. These are the up-and-comers of the House and represent the future of the gang. In House Goliath, they’re called Forge-born, and they are desperate to prove themselves to the Alphas of the clan so they can take their place as future champions and leaders. As you can see from their profile, they’re not there quite yet.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/686f6984.jpg)
Quote
They’re cheaper than a regular ganger and have different abilities to Juves, which offers you a lot of customisation in how you build your gang.
Who was it said that these were "effectively juves"? I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about... ::)

Something I mentioned before about specialist champions:
Quote
But what good are new rules without new models to go with them? Well, not only are the Goliath Forge-born getting some miniatures, but they come in a kit with Goliath Stimmers, who are new House-specific Champions.

Quote
The House of Chains goes into detail about the different origins of fighters in House Goliath, be they Vatborn (those created in a vat), Natborn (those born naturally) or Unborn (those from outside the House). If these fighters aren’t quite what you need, then there are rules to apply gene-smithing to them. Vatborn, Natborn and Unborn fighters can all take different Gene-smithed upgrades that increase both their characteristics and credit cost. Want your fighters to be even tougher than regular Goliaths? Give your Vatborn the Dermal Hardening upgrade and they will laugh off all but the strongest attacks.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/63d6fe84.jpg)

Upgraded Goliaths are now not Primaris Marines...

Quote
Vatborns are your “baseline” Goliath fighters, but you can upgrade any number of them to Natborn or Unborn and then Gene-smith away to your heart’s content!

New hanger-on figures:

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/64e7be02.jpg)

A return to N17:


(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/316522a8-1600x900.jpg)


Quote
Of course, we couldn’t just let Goliath have all of the fun! All six House gangs are going to get their own book and, just like the House of Chains, they will all feature extensive background, new fighters, alliances, Bounty Hunters, House-specific tactics and more. Each gang will also get new plastic kits along with their book. Exciting, eh? Let’s take a look at the (Ash) road map for what’s coming up.
Great to know that all your recent purchases have been invalidated and they're obviously going re-release these eventually, just like Ao$. lol

I forgot to mention new cards will be released, starting with Goliath, so I'm glad I missed out on the old ones!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 11, 2020, 08:48:07 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on February 11, 2020, 06:04:20 PM
Who was it said that these were "effectively juves"? I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about...


Yeah I think that was me, when I put the first pic of these up. My bad  ;)

Like the look of a couple of those hangers-on!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 11, 2020, 09:27:19 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 11, 2020, 08:48:07 PM
Yeah I think that was me, when I put the first pic of these up. My bad  ;)

Like the look of a couple of those hangers-on!
Nah, it wasn't you...

 :-X

I like all those Forge World models too, as with a little tweaking, they could be used in WFB. I'm not thrilled about the 6 new "army" books and how many pages could be devoted to one House? Gangs of the Underhive will be invalidated, but I'm not sure about The Book of Judgement and The Book of Peril. With power creep already an issue, now there will be more books to reference and the possibility of more inconsistencies - the 2019 errata fixed a few issues, but caused some more. :-I 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 11, 2020, 09:35:05 PM
Just realised the hangers-on are Forgeworld. Will wait and see the price before I decide whether I like 'em.  :) That mancatcher guy is pretty cool though, kinda reminds me of the Logan's World ork slavers in the rt rulebook.

If I actually played the game I'd be pissed off at having a whole load more books to buy. I definitely find GW a lot less frustrating since shifting to homebrew/other rules. The minis are by far the best thing they put out, at least for my purposes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on February 12, 2020, 05:35:33 AM
Yes, mancatcher looks great. Pity he's FW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on February 12, 2020, 10:15:09 AM
Just noticed that the gladiator is standing on an Ambots severed arm.  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 12, 2020, 09:07:33 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on February 11, 2020, 09:27:19 PM
Nah, it wasn't you...

Yeah, he means me, even though others did too, no one else 'called' him out on the stuff he keeps posting. 

So lets address that.
Quote from: Condottiere on February 11, 2020, 09:27:19 PM
Who was it said that these were "effectively juves"? I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about... ::)

I have no issue holding my hand up to that. Especially as the evidence you suggest proves that wrong, actually proves it right. So "effectively" in that use can also be expressed as 'almost', 'more or less', 'virtually', 'practically', 'in effect' etc. So, as the intent suggests, I wasn't saying they were precisely Juves. That was clear from the equipment they were carrying. But the bulk, or lack there of, the bodies themselves suggested not yet fully fledged Goliaths. Now the evidence.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/686f6984.jpg)
This statline differs from a Goliath Juve in a few ways. Juves are T3, I3+, Cl5+ and Wil10+.

So they are very similar in stats, as in they don't have the Goliath ganger BS, retain the faster movement of a Juve but have the T4 of the ganger. This might be something owing to the new rules about the birth of the characters themselves which is explained later. They have better Wil but are worse Cl and Initiative, though the same I as gangers.

So visually, which is what I was going on, and stats wise, they are very similar.

Quote
"In House Goliath, they’re called Forge-born, and they are desperate to prove themselves to the Alphas of the clan so they can take their place as future champions and leaders. As you can see from their profile, they’re not there quite yet."

"They’re cheaper than a regular ganger and have different abilities to Juves, which offers you a lot of customisation in how you build your gang."

So, they're not a ganger. The suggestion from the above is that they progress the same was as Juves in that they follow the same rules for advancing with XP - that comes from the "take their place as future champions and leaders", as Juves can do this.

Ergo, they are like Juves, and could be said to be 'almost'/'more or less'/'virtually'/'practically'/'in effect' Juves. Their position in a gang is similar. Their description is similar - essentially they are 'like Juves but with different options'.

Not really seeing your point.

Quote from: Condottiere on February 11, 2020, 09:27:19 PM
I'm not thrilled about the 6 new "army" books and how many pages could be devoted to one House? Gangs of the Underhive will be invalidated, but I'm not sure about The Book of Judgement and The Book of Peril. With power creep already an issue, now there will be more books to reference and the possibility of more inconsistencies - the 2019 errata fixed a few issues, but caused some more. :-I

I believe there is a WHTV episode where this is going to be addressed. I like to hold back before I make knee jerk comments on things in case they turn out to be wrong. I'd be a bit narked if what you say is true, though when I compare to other hobbies out there, overall it isn't that expensive. The books are still cheaper than console games and you don't have to use the modern miniatures or even GW miniatures if you don't want to.

My Delaque gang is from Heresy Miniatures, my current Venator gang is lead by an old Black Scorpion oop sheriff converted, a mantic mini with a skitarii(sp) head, three Dark Age (CMON) miniatures, a converted WHFB Ogre with heavy bolter and some Die Hard sci fi miniaures. All of which have also been used in other games in the past (old Necro for the Delaques).

There are ways and means of doing games cheaper. Usually you can save on miniatures if you look to 2nd hand markets or other manufacturers. I have a regular Necromunda group and we love the game. It's grown from 3 of us to 8 and keeps growing. So £20 for a book to continue that fun? I don't need more gangs...

More books to reference, again, time will tell. At worst the rules from the underhive book will be repeated in the new house specific books. However, even if they do that, the underhive book has 160 pages. The house gangs are dealt with by page 60. It also includes the trade chart, weapons charts, hired guns, brutes and pets. Now, they might include the house specific ones but it would require repetition in all of the books of the other stuff if they were to completely invalidate the under-hive book.

Quote from: Condottiere on February 11, 2020, 09:27:19 PM
Upgraded Goliaths are now not Primaris Marines...

I believe the fluff already has Goliaths having been recruited by (I believe) the Imperial Fists as it is one of their recruiting worlds. So actually although that comment is in jest, it's actually not far from the truth.

Finally, on a more positive note and a bit of conjecture. If they are using these House specific books to introduce more depth and background to the house gangs, I wonder if that will mean we see a return of some old things through them?

Some houses had named character hired guns in the past like Bella Donna who is yet to be seen in her original form. There is a similarly named character but it's not her.

I also wonder if the reason Cawdor are one of the two last gangs on the list to be released (I assume as they are not for this year) is because they could naturally provide the step over into the 'Outlander' gangs. It would make sense that the Redemptionists are part of that book, at least going on historical fluff references, they are of the same belief just a little more heretical/extreme and outlaws.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 13, 2020, 02:29:33 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 11, 2020, 09:35:05 PM
Just realised the hangers-on are Forgeworld. Will wait and see the price before I decide whether I like 'em.  :) That mancatcher guy is pretty cool though, kinda reminds me of the Logan's World ork slavers in the rt rulebook.
Single figures from GW main and Forgeworld are priced the same nowadays, with the only difference being something $30+ in plastic vs higher quality resin. Also FW has a silly habit of removing products with little to no notice, like everything human related for WFB... >:(
     
I like the fat bloke on the left, as he looks like something from John Blanche's art. :) 
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 11, 2020, 09:35:05 PM
If I actually played the game I'd be pissed off at having a whole load more books to buy. I definitely find GW a lot less frustrating since shifting to homebrew/other rules. The minis are by far the best thing they put out, at least for my purposes.
It's become a juggling act trying to decide whether to buy the latest figure or the rules to use one and then there's the unavailability of overpriced terrain pieces, like the Zone Mortalis Tiles - maybe a US facility would've alleviated things? I've heard the claim that these newer books are optional, but based on my experience with Ao$, you'll be at a significant disadvantage showing up without the latest battletome or supplement, like Malign Sorcery. With Necromunda rulebook and supplement QC being as is and errata released at a snail's pace, sometimes requiring its own errata, lol discussions have resulted about rules as intended(RaI) and rules as written(RaW).     
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 13, 2020, 03:02:00 AM
Warhammer Community article about the newHigh Elf spearmen (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/10/the-lumineth-lowdown-part-2-spear-phalanxes-and-runic-symbolismgw-homepage-post-2/) - the fluff reads like bad fanfiction!

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/d9cb0dce.jpg)(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/4871f98b.jpg)

Quote
As the Auralan Wardens fight as a phalanx, they have been designed in a variety of defensive poses, with leaf-shaped shields to the fore and long spears thrust forwards to face the enemy. Their shields each have a crescent-shaped nook, enabling the warriors to support the weight of their spear shafts and thrust their weapons forwards even when their shields are interlocked. The shields themselves are interchangeable and feature intricate woven lattice work on their unarmoured side, hinting at the incredible craftsmanship that is synonymous with everything the Lumineth create.
Why not say back or reverse side? Shields don't have unarmored sides, they're just planks of wood covered in parchment or leather. Incredible craftsmanship?!? More like the designer could be bothered to add some details! lol
Quote
With the exception of triangular tabards of scale mail, the lower halves of the Wardens remain unarmoured – these areas of the body are protected by the interlocking shields of the phalanx. Meanwhile, the upper halves feature a mix of male and female torsos, each clad in layers of scale and plate armour with elegant, curved pauldrons. Their armour is bedecked with sun and moon icons, symbolising the twin gods of Hysh, for their warriors are neither Tyrionic nor Teclian exclusively. The interchangeable heads of the Auralan Wardens are protected by full helms and crowned with exotic plumes.
TBF, while I appreciate the male and female parts, I can't tell the difference, especially with the helmets - thankfully I don't see boob plates. All these parts will mean the price will be $40-$50 for 10 figures, so not an economical way to build up a pike block for WFB - a massed battle game with skirmish level priced figures.  :-I
Quote
Each of the Auralan Wardens carries a short sword strapped to their backs. Though not designed to be their primary weapons, these blades would be drawn for self-defence should an enemy get inside their reach – or to extricate their spears should an enemy become kebabed on the shaft!
The sword on the left doesn't look short to me and why strapped to the back? Sure it looks cool, but it's not an easy way to draw a sword of this length in an emergency: one hand has to grip the scabbard from the bottom, assuming the left, while the other unsheaths it. It would've made more sense to have the sword on the left or right hip. How does one extricate a stuck spear with a sword? :?
 
I wonder how these Corinthian helmets would look on Empire State Troops or Palanite Enforcers...

Anyone planning on converting these spearmen to look like these High Elf mercenaries from the '98 Dogs of War book?


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 13, 2020, 03:36:48 AM
Apparently I now have to add 'Necromunda' to "politics' and 'religion' as topics I don't bring up in polite company.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on February 13, 2020, 06:29:27 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on February 13, 2020, 03:36:48 AM
Apparently I now have to add 'Necromunda' to "politics' and 'religion' as topics I don't bring up in polite company.

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 13, 2020, 07:53:26 AM
 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on February 13, 2020, 09:34:22 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on February 13, 2020, 03:36:48 AM
Apparently I now have to add 'Necromunda' to "politics' and 'religion' as topics I don't bring up in polite company.


 lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 13, 2020, 11:08:06 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on February 13, 2020, 03:36:48 AM
Apparently I now have to add 'Necromunda' to "politics' and 'religion' as topics I don't bring up in polite company.

 lol Funny coz it is true. I used to be a member of the Eastern Fringe necro forum. It was a pretty chilled place, until someone asked an innocent question about whether you get experience for a wounding hit if the target makes their armour save. Jeez, did the ensuing "debate" escalate quickly.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr. Zombie on February 13, 2020, 11:33:30 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 13, 2020, 11:08:06 AM
lol Funny coz it is true. I used to be a member of the Eastern Fringe necro forum. It was a pretty chilled place, until someone asked an innocent question about whether you get experience for a wounding hit if the target makes their armour save. Jeez, did the ensuing "debate" escalate quickly.

Well don't you?


 :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 13, 2020, 03:02:05 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 13, 2020, 11:08:06 AM
lol Funny coz it is true. I used to be a member of the Eastern Fringe necro forum. It was a pretty chilled place, until someone asked an innocent question about whether you get experience for a wounding hit if the target makes their armour save. Jeez, did the ensuing "debate" escalate quickly.
What do you expect when talking about the grim darkness of the far future? ;)

(https://1d4chan.org/images/thumb/8/82/Dance_Steps_For_GWs_Space_Hulk_Game.jpg/500px-Dance_Steps_For_GWs_Space_Hulk_Game.jpg)


The hobby's a passionate place, so escalation is a possibility, though some easily get upset if people don't immediately take everything they say as gospel... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 13, 2020, 04:15:07 PM
New info about Ogryns in the Underhive (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/13/house-of-chains-ogryns-in-the-underhivegw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/)...

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/74e94c9e.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on February 13, 2020, 04:28:34 PM
They'd make some big Orks!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 13, 2020, 09:26:11 PM
Multi part plastic   :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on February 14, 2020, 01:31:35 AM
Sooooo much better than the brutes. But what are the purple thingies on their chests?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 14, 2020, 06:04:38 AM
Great as big servitors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 14, 2020, 01:12:30 PM
Hm. The middle one doesn't look quite finished, missing his arm and his backpack  lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 14, 2020, 04:59:49 PM
There's a mean machine version waiting to be converted in there...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 14, 2020, 05:14:53 PM
I can't get over how bizarre the mouth is on the guy on the left...looks like he's wearing a mask with a mouth drawn on it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 14, 2020, 05:35:21 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 14, 2020, 05:14:53 PM
I can't get over how bizarre the mouth is on the guy on the left...looks like he's wearing a mask with a mouth drawn on it.

The centre model has the same exaggerated jawline. The positioning just makes it look less severe and faux.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on February 14, 2020, 06:34:55 PM
Is the one on the right armed with another sewing machine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on February 14, 2020, 07:42:47 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on February 14, 2020, 01:12:30 PM
Hm. The middle one doesn't look quite finished, missing his arm and his backpack  lol.

He’s mostly ‘armless.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 14, 2020, 10:15:48 PM
Quote from: blacksoilbill on February 14, 2020, 01:31:35 AM
But what are the purple thingies on their chests?

Freeze pop dispensers, looks like  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 14, 2020, 11:11:34 PM
So it looks like they've ALL had their right arm removed, presumably as a way to fit a specific mech arm for a specific job. Maybe the purple things are phials of meds that keep them going, like the Star Trek Jem Hadar and their 'White'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 14, 2020, 11:15:02 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 14, 2020, 11:11:34 PM
So it looks like they've ALL had their right arm removed, presumably as a way to fit a specific mech arm for a specific job. Maybe the purple things are phials of meds that keep them going, like the Star Trek Jem Hadar and their 'White'.

Yeah, 'stims' I'd say. I quite like them. They are mutants of sorts so I would expect them to look odd compared to ogres or even mainstream Imp Guard ogrns due to being in the underhive.

Edit: Just seen this on facebook...
(https://scontent-lhr8-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/86457504_10156912263067694_2806148240397828096_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=4tq4rSTrfY0AX-1Nrn3&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-1.xx&oh=4d4f47a91358f52c060dfc5e9f01a22c&oe=5EC53590)

Not sure I am overly keen on it. But I suppose it looks messed up enough for what it is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on February 15, 2020, 09:04:44 AM
Slaine!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on February 15, 2020, 11:16:56 AM
Any one seen the new warcry skaven bombadier? Striking the death metal guitar pose  lol
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Skaven-Warlock-Bombardier-2020
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fred on February 15, 2020, 01:02:25 PM
£17.50 for 1 small plastic figure. Fuck me.

Is this pay to win come to figure gaming?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 15, 2020, 03:30:07 PM
Quote from: fred on February 15, 2020, 01:02:25 PM
£17.50 for 1 small plastic figure. Fuck me.

Is this pay to win come to figure gaming?

GW has had that sort of pricing for single command figures for some time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 15, 2020, 03:36:11 PM
Quote from: fred on February 15, 2020, 01:02:25 PM
£17.50 for 1 small plastic figure. Fuck me.

Is this pay to win come to figure gaming?
I like everything about this figure but the price, but what do you expect when the dropped metal figures? Plastic molds are expensive, especially for single figures, but it's not going to dissuade the intoxicated faithful.

At the current exchange rate, £17.50 should be around $23, but I expect it to be priced at $30-$35, 'cause you're a foreigner paying for the privilege!



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 15, 2020, 04:02:35 PM
Generic gang tactic cards might be gone (or moved to a specific pack?), as the pre-order (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Necromunda-Goliath-Gang-Tactics-Cards-2020#) only has Goliath cards.

(https://yaktribe.games/community/attachments/chains-png.105232/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 15, 2020, 04:09:34 PM
The Ogor Mawtribes Warboss is sort of affordable when you compare him to the other ones. 25 euros, that would be about 18 euros through Wayland and the likes. Might be temped...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 15, 2020, 09:34:57 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on February 15, 2020, 04:02:35 PM
Generic gang tactic cards might be gone (or moved to a specific pack?), as the pre-order (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Necromunda-Goliath-Gang-Tactics-Cards-2020#) only has Goliath cards.

(https://yaktribe.games/community/attachments/chains-png.105232/)

They've had issues with the cards, though what is odd is that some cards have become available again after initial release, like the enforcers I believe.

It's all a bit odd as the gang specific cards are actually quite few in number where as the generic ones seem to be numerous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: RAD on February 16, 2020, 02:46:23 PM
Necromunda has always been my all times fav, since the early days of confrontation (which produced wonderful minis at the time, some of them i'm only painting now after 30 years catching dust  in boxes).

I've always liked best skirmish games with more narrative into it, and while i stopped playing years ago, i've always went on painting (at a very slow rate caused by lack of time) gangs, or squad sized teams just in case... And when GW dropped Mordheim and Necromunda, I hanged on with INQ 28 to keep motivation.

But this Necromunda V2 they've done is really awesome. Of course there are the usual GW issues everyone dislike for good (and not so good) reasons.

Most of the sculpts are simply awesome (ok except OOTRUM 8-8, still don't understand how they managed to do that one...) and i'm very happy with the content of the books.

And the future seems bright considering the schedule they've issued for the year and a half to come, hopefully at the end of which should bring us the even more interesting part (IMH and very personal O of course...):scavvies, redemptionists, ratskins, outlanders...

Sorry for this sudden and indecent burst of out of place enthousiasm.

But then i thought it was the right place.

Sorry to have written this pointless post.

You can now resume your usual activities.





Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 16, 2020, 03:17:56 PM
I agree RAD.

I love the direction they are going with Necromunda. It's background allows for old school stuff to still be about in modern 40k so it's a really ace sandpit for nostalgia.

The biggest issue I think GW and Necromunda has is the humble d6. So many different gangs and characters and only six sides of a dice to differentiate them. I think a lot of the balancing issues stem from this in that rules are then needed on top to differentiate. Some odd.

For me, at the moment, the availability of special weapons is an issue. Venators can only access them through their leader and champions. Chaos cultists and house gangs can have as many as they like. Which has lead to the cultist gang in our current campaign having flamers and grenade launchers as well as a couple of heavy stubbers...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 16, 2020, 05:51:14 PM
£42 for all four of the slaver/pitslave Goliath allies - that is actually much less than I feared!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on February 16, 2020, 07:14:10 PM
Enthusiasm is good RAD,keeps the hobby alive :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 16, 2020, 08:52:48 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on February 16, 2020, 05:51:14 PM
£42 for all four of the slaver/pitslave Goliath allies - that is actually much less than I feared!
It's $66 for US residents, so an exchange rate of £1=~$1.57... >:(

Even Paypal's dodgy rate is only 0.04 more than the actual rate.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 16, 2020, 08:53:40 PM
Quote from: Blackwolf on February 16, 2020, 07:14:10 PM
Enthusiasm is good RAD,keeps the hobby alive :)

I second that! And a great post RAD, I also second your enthusiasm for Necro v2. I'm only interested in the minis, and I have to say I was a little disappointed at first. I dislike how regimented and uniform each gang looks in Necro (hated that in v1 too), always preferred the way the Confrontation minis look recognisably of the same gang but not uniform. But the incredible compatibility between so many GW plastic kits these days makes getting a less uniform look easy - and fun!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 16, 2020, 08:56:47 PM
Ogre Tyrant (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ogor-Mawtribes-Tyrant-2020) is available for pre-order for $35, but it lacks the head and weapon options of the old version.

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120213022_OMTyrant01.jpg)

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120213022_OMTyrant04.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on February 16, 2020, 09:34:58 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on February 16, 2020, 08:52:48 PM
It's $66 for US residents, so an exchange rate of £1=~$1.57... >:(
Even Paypal's dodgy rate is only 0.04 more than the actual rate.

We have had this conversation a lot lately about GW and Warlord on different threads.  At least for Warlord this isn't an exchange rate issue.  They said "we do sell at different set prices when we offer our products with a foreign currency ".  Could be Brexit related, different overhead costs or just what they think the local market will pay.  I assume the latter.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on February 16, 2020, 10:16:19 PM
Quote from: syrinx0 on February 16, 2020, 09:34:58 PM
We have had this conversation a lot lately about GW and Warlord on different threads.

GW has had odd exchange rates for years. Not sure why people would be bringing it up again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 17, 2020, 01:41:42 AM
Quote from: syrinx0 on February 16, 2020, 09:34:58 PM
We have had this conversation a lot lately about GW and Warlord on different threads.  At least for Warlord this isn't an exchange rate issue.  They said "we do sell at different set prices when we offer our products with a foreign currency ".  Could be Brexit related, different overhead costs or just what they think the local market will pay.  I assume the latter.
Brexit affecting the pricing of hobby products shouldn't be of concern to anyone this side of the Atlantic. Overhead is an issue, but US hobbyists were charged more even back in the early 2000s, but it's only been in the last five or ten years that price hikes have increased to ridiculous levels. In the past, this could've been avoided by ordering from GW UK after I moved back stateside, from 1997-~2000, due to some items not being available, but this option is banned by them, even though it's a dodgy business practice, at least in the EU - Price discrimination is not allowed]https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treatment/unfair-pricing/index_en.htm#shortcut-4]Price discrimination is not allowed (https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treatment/unfair-pricing/index_en.htm#shortcut-4).

Price difference might be justified based on physical presence, but this doesn't explain Forge World's pricing: you can't have the purchase shipped to your local GW store, even though you're charged local sales tax.

I'm not trying to make this political, merely pointing out the difference in prices...

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on February 17, 2020, 05:06:51 AM
That EU law only applies to pricing within the EU markets though.  I would agree the price difference seems to be getting larger recently but not sure how much that has really changed in the last few years.  That impression may also be due to my now infrequent purchase of new GW models.  The price gouging just makes me more picky in what I purchase.  I doubt their stock will be impacted.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on February 17, 2020, 04:14:02 PM
Quote from: syrinx0 on February 17, 2020, 05:06:51 AM
That EU law only applies to pricing within the EU markets though.  I would agree the price difference seems to be getting larger recently but not sure how much that has really changed in the last few years.  That impression may also be due to my now infrequent purchase of new GW models.  The price gouging just makes me more picky in what I purchase.  I doubt their stock will be impacted.  lol
It's a shame our legislators can't do something similar, but it's probably small potatoes... :(

I'm also getting the impression that we're subsidizing their loss leaders.

The only option is eBay and I have issues with them too.

NB: Someone will bring up game stores, but for their information they charge RRP, with discounts for service members. Some do offer X percent off GW products, like the defunct WarStore, but when shipping and internet sales tax is added, there's hardly a saving, compared to the discounts offered by UK stores - no longer available to foreigners.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 17, 2020, 07:15:12 PM
I doubt it's the only such example and I doubt it is only one way...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 23, 2020, 11:57:03 AM
Is it just my ill-informed outsider's impression, or is GWs recent air battle game going the way of Space Fleet/Gothic: a massive list of imperial options, and a small handful for each other faction?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on February 24, 2020, 09:58:55 PM
My guess its natural way of things like with historical miniatures - we have insane overpopulation of the British stuff :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 25, 2020, 09:09:44 AM
Ha, probably true. And I guess games like Necro and Inq28 flesh out the imperial bits of the fluff in much more detail than the other species get, so an imperial bias maybe seems natural.

Weirdly, when I first got totally hooked into GW (1991) it felt as though the Orks got the most attention: they had more options than the other armies in 2nd ed. Space Marine, and three whole books for 40K.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 07, 2020, 04:47:07 PM
There are a load of Start Collecting Age of Sigmar armies up for pre-order - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=647457687+1593255432&utm_campaign=GW_7th_March_Seraphon_EN_EU&utm_source=CUSTOMERS&utm_medium=email&utm_content=&utm_term=_[/url)

They look pretty good value for what you get and I am very tempted by the Skinks, although it does help that I have some Birthday vouchers to spend  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on March 10, 2020, 10:28:16 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/10/revealed-at-gamagw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-4/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/10/revealed-at-gamagw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-4/)

Loads of new stuff announced. Not sure on the Escher becoming fake Dark Eldar knock offs though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 10, 2020, 09:19:46 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on March 10, 2020, 10:28:16 AM

Loads of new stuff announced. Not sure on the Escher becoming fake Dark Eldar knock offs though.

I actually quite like that. There has always been something eldar-y about Escher minis. JG put some of his Bratt ideas from Confrontation, which were intentionally eldar-y, into the 95 Escher sculpts.

The new Eschers with bows and whips would make great post-apoc minis with just a little modification. I really like one of the "undead" ones too (face veil), and the female enforcer. Not sold on the other necro stuff, especially the silly Cawdor.

Those new high elf, sorry aelf, archers look ace too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 10, 2020, 09:23:22 PM
Some pics:
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/ffdb0d40.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/6ebefeb4.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 11, 2020, 08:56:51 AM
This may make me appear shallow, but those are rather ugly.

And the two other ones have strange poses, not sure what it is about them, but the poses ring alarm bells.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 11, 2020, 10:14:32 AM
Not gonna lie, I'm kind of excited about the seraphon temple. The fact it drops on my birthday helps too...even though I have a billion things I could paint already.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 11, 2020, 08:14:37 PM
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/fce201d6.jpg)

Get out!!! Get OUT NOW!

As someone who did archery for a fair bit of my youth and coached it for a bit too - this is just shocking. So, so, sooooooooo many issues.
1) Arrow on wrong side of bow.
2) Three strings?
3) How are those strings attached?
4) The limbs of the bow are different lengths.
5) The top limb is three separate pieces of wood, different lengths, stepped...
6) The quiver is a different length to the arrow on the bow. I doubt he'd be able to pull back the length of those arrows on that bow.
7) Where he is holding the strings to is wrong.

How hard is it to get these things right? The first google image that comes up when searching "archery" (for me at least) is this:
(https://cdn.britannica.com/s:700x500/26/91526-050-C4C7B73A/Archer-recurve-bow-target.jpg)

Utter basics there in one simple image. This is just shocking.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 11, 2020, 08:29:28 PM
Ha! My first thought was "Those heads are going to look excellent on genestealer hybrid and delaque torsos for an austerely religious hive guild".

Three bow strings is very dumb, but also very warhammer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on March 11, 2020, 09:00:44 PM
They probably watched a Lars Andersen video and thought 'anything goes'... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 11, 2020, 09:02:14 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on March 11, 2020, 08:14:37 PM
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/fce201d6.jpg)

Get out!!! Get OUT NOW!

I guess we now have an answer to the question "what is worse than bows with no bowstrings?"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on March 11, 2020, 09:26:34 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on March 11, 2020, 08:14:37 PM
...

It's fantasy.

Maximum fantasy, no less. :P
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on March 11, 2020, 09:39:34 PM
It looks to me like a mashup of recurve and compound bows,maybe elves shoot bows differently in warhammer world? A bit silly as always,Baneblades et cetera are just as bad,look at the size of the barrels,how many shells could be stored...
Commissar: “why did you retreat?”
Tank commander: “ran out of ammo”
Commissar: “you only fired two shots...”
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 11, 2020, 10:02:18 PM
As silly as it looks

Different lengths of the limbs are perfectly ok, and arrow position is historical too.

(https://fujimae.com/906-tm_thickbox_default/arco-kyudo-yumi-japones-220m-potencia-18-kg.jpg)

Eastern style archery - although elves grip is wrong so it is bad modeled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n5M2KHVyWI

As to the mini itself and rest of your problems with it..
Well - it is a silly miniature, lets not go there  :P

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 11, 2020, 11:04:20 PM
So it's just a hideous mashup?  lol

So we have a Samurai bow, with a very strange upper limb, the three bowstrings held in place with metal eyelets and, what are those? Bolts?

Not massively aware of the Eastern style archery. But if that's how they shoot, fair play to them and I concede. Also seems historically odd that in modern times you have folks digging it up when in reality, if it was so successful, it would have been adopted more widely but seems to have been most successful with mounted archers who were going for speed and manoeuvrability over power. Which is fine against unarmoured targets but perhaps a lot less useful against more armoured targets.

In fairness, even the English long bows at Agincourt would have had a hard time penetrating the full plate armour of the French Knights. But power also means range which the Lars Anderson vids proved if anything. Most of his archery was at relatively close range, at which point, it's arguable if you are better off just wacking the enemy with something sharp. Hit and run, yes, which again, suits mounted archers.

I'm not a huge fan of compound bows. For me they always had more in common with a crossbow because of the way they are designed to do the work for you. But then I liked to shoot with nothing but a pin for a sight... All these counter weights, sights, pulleys, fancy ring pulls with triggers etc. If your fingers didn't ache, you didn't strain to loose after an hour...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 12, 2020, 10:52:28 AM
I think it is a refugee from a post apocalyptic world where you make bows out of vehicle parts, such as leaf springs.
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Leafs1.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 12, 2020, 11:17:23 AM
I am going to say something very silly. It might have looked better if he was also holding 3 arrows. Even more stupid but at that point you just have to accept it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 12, 2020, 11:51:50 AM
I was about to ask a bunch of questions/make a bunch of comments about how fuckwitted it is … and then I remembered that for years now the answer has been "Because GW", so I won't bother.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 12, 2020, 12:13:30 PM
The extra strings are back ups for when they break as you cut the bow off the sprue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 12, 2020, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on March 12, 2020, 12:13:30 PM
The extra strings are back ups for when they break as you cut the bow off the sprue.
Not for a musical accompaniment?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 12, 2020, 04:19:04 PM
He does play a mean bass line.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on March 12, 2020, 04:50:39 PM
I am no toxophilite, but, as ever, have a couple of probably pointless observations.

1 .The phrase 'more than one string to one's bow' must surely mean something, though not necessarily this.

2. With regard to penetrating power of long bows against armoured targets, a dimly remembered account of Agincourt mentioned bodkin-pointed arrows being used for precisely this purpose - supposedly to lethal effect -  while broadhead arrows would be used against unarmoured or lightly armoured foes. No doubts this is an oversimplification, and has been overtaken by recent research, but it's a point * that seems to get little consideration in rules.

* Unintentional and unforgivable if unavoidable pun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodkin_point
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 12, 2020, 06:17:24 PM
Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on March 12, 2020, 04:50:39 PM
1 .The phrase 'more than one string to one's bow' must surely mean something, though not necessarily this.

I suspect this in is relation to the bow of an instrument such as a violin, which tend to snap. I could well be wrong as I have no experience the musical arts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 13, 2020, 12:11:59 AM
It could also be more literal. As in you carry more than one bow string in case one snaps, you have a replacement. As for Agincourt, I'll dig up a YouTube link in the morning.  :)

Edit: "This term comes from the custom of archers carrying a reserve string. It first appeared in English in the mid-fifteenth century, and by 1546 it was in John Heywood's proverb collection."

Probably because they used less predictable materials back in the day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on March 13, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
Its made up fantasy. If it was a historical mini then yeah, rip away, but its an elf  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 13, 2020, 12:30:28 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on March 13, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
Its made up fantasy. If it was a historical mini then yeah, rip away, but its an elf  ;)

 :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 13, 2020, 01:44:37 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on March 13, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
Its made up fantasy. If it was a historical mini then yeah, rip away, but its an elf  ;)
Elves are not historical! You have destroyed Christmas! You FIEND!

Okay not sure on the connection there, I just got carried away....

^__^
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 13, 2020, 03:09:10 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on March 12, 2020, 03:52:31 PM
Not for a musical accompaniment?

I like this one best.

And probably the reason elves have slowly becoming extinct too...

Quote
The tense wait before battle always got to Boriël Moonglow, as it did now. 'You know what I'd rather be doing right now, Andariël?' he sighed to his compatriot next to him in the makeshift trench they were hunkering down in. 'Compose a verse to the beauty of the falling rain', his comrade in arms finished for him. 'I know Boriël; you're ever the pacifist. Now be silent, the enemy can approach any moment now!' And Andariël resumed his watchful gaze across the clearing.
Sulking, Boriël turned to his bow. Oh, how he despised its murderous aspect, but how his heart warmed at the thought of the soothing tones of its strings when played with caressing hands. Absentmindedly, he began softly strumming the three strings that made up the harp part of his issued war bow. And without realizing he began playing an ancient melody dedicated to the myriad hues of gold of a particularly beautiful elven maiden of legend.
Annoyed, Andariël turned to his reluctant brother in arms, but as he was about to chastise Boriël on his lapse of discipline, he heard the captivating sound of a second bow harp weaving its melody into Boriël's. And then a third, and a fourth, coming further down the line of hidden positions.
A veil lifted from his heart and he felt the urge so break out in song. And he was not alone, as irresistibly, all elves positioned on the hidden defense line joined in a joyous song, in praise of a beauty long since gone.
The entire line of elves, although well hidden from view in their forest mantles, thus became easy prey for the horde of orcs breaking the treeline across the glade, their pig-like eyes gleaming with murder, as they honed in on the despicable wailing across the field, and they made it across unopposed at a full run. Boriël never knew what hit him...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 13, 2020, 03:47:43 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on March 13, 2020, 03:09:10 PM
And probably the reason elves have slowly becoming extinct too...
CASE NIGHTMARE GREEN is the reason the Alfär are becoming extinct.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 13, 2020, 04:27:02 PM
You know it's a story of fantasy when they start talking about Elves in a trench... Since when have Elves ever got their hands dirty like that?!! ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on March 13, 2020, 05:21:42 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on March 13, 2020, 11:54:44 AM
Its made up fantasy. If it was a historical mini then yeah, rip away, but its an elf  ;)
I was just thinking "I hope no one tells him about the skeleton musicians with horns"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on March 13, 2020, 06:09:20 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on March 12, 2020, 06:17:24 PM
I suspect this in is relation to the bow of an instrument such as a violin, which tend to snap. I could well be wrong as I have no experience the musical arts.

Almost certainly true. I have no idea why I never thought of this. Maybe someone should tell GW's sculptors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on March 13, 2020, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on March 13, 2020, 12:11:59 AM
It could also be more literal. As in you carry more than one bow string in case one snaps, you have a replacement. As for Agincourt, I'll dig up a YouTube link in the morning.  :)

Edit: "This term comes from the custom of archers carrying a reserve string. It first appeared in English in the mid-fifteenth century, and by 1546 it was in John Heywood's proverb collection."

Probably because they used less predictable materials back in the day.

Alright, that's almost certainly more true than the previous offering, plausible though that seemed at the time (about 30 seconds ago). While unattributed, the quote marks lend credibility to your definition. The odd thing is that the phrase as currently used usually relates to variety in method or approach to a task, rather than a simple back-up or replacement of hardware, but that's presumably down to the evolution of linguistic usage.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 13, 2020, 08:37:11 PM
Quote from: TWD on March 13, 2020, 05:21:42 PM
I was just thinking "I hope no one tells him about the skeleton musicians with horns"
What instrument was the horned skeleton playing?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on March 13, 2020, 08:41:23 PM
The penny whistle
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 14, 2020, 12:31:36 AM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on March 13, 2020, 08:37:11 PM
What instrument was the horned skeleton playing?
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Deathrattle-Skeleton-Warriors-2017
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207040_DeathrattleSkeletons02.jpg)
Although I have a feeling you may have been joking
Should have had him playing his own ribcage as a xylophone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 14, 2020, 06:13:47 AM
Quote from: beefcake on March 14, 2020, 12:31:36 AM
Although I have a feeling you may have been joking
Should have had him playing his own ribcage as a xylophone.
Not quite...

There was one (kind of) in Army of Darkness! lol

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZMVOR6Q1xeA/XK4l4X84ChI/AAAAAAAAUDU/RmZ-3PMXlXAIDQ9SZ-HC-GsteWCeLa0rgCLcBGAs/s1600/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 14, 2020, 08:45:09 AM
Quote from: beefcake on March 14, 2020, 12:31:36 AM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on March 13, 2020, 08:37:11 PM
What instrument was the horned skeleton playing?
Although I have a feeling you may have been joking
Yes, sorry. A bit of an Eats Shoots and Leaves joke.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 14, 2020, 12:38:57 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on March 11, 2020, 11:04:20 PM
So it's just a hideous mashup?  lol

So we have a Samurai bow, with a very strange upper limb, the three bowstrings held in place with metal eyelets and, what are those? Bolts?

Not massively aware of the Eastern style archery. But if that's how they shoot, fair play to them and I concede. Also seems historically odd that in modern times you have folks digging it up when in reality, if it was so successful, it would have been adopted more widely but seems to have been most successful with mounted archers who were going for speed and manoeuvrability over power. Which is fine against unarmoured targets but perhaps a lot less useful against more armoured targets.

In fairness, even the English long bows at Agincourt would have had a hard time penetrating the full plate armour of the French Knights. But power also means range which the Lars Anderson vids proved if anything. Most of his archery was at relatively close range, at which point, it's arguable if you are better off just wacking the enemy with something sharp. Hit and run, yes, which again, suits mounted archers.


It was mostly mounted game to be honest
But bows were in common use in Polish Commonwealth forces long into XVII century, side by side with pistols so they have to be good weapons in horse skirmishing eastern style.

Not saying it is sensible, but it was used on the right (apart from the grip which is western and should be shot with an arrow on the left of the bow.
Using it like that wouldnt hit to precise I think :>

Stupid mashup sums it up nicely
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 14, 2020, 01:10:13 PM
It is funny that we accept that dark magic is animating these skeletons as undead soldiers, but not that the same dark magic can make them toot their horns!

Reminds me of an anecdote my brother told me about playing the 'Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles' RPG years ago. The premise of the game is that the characters are animals that have mutated into animal-human hybrids to have their various adventures. One player's character was a monkey that was wielding an M60, which he had fitted with a silencer. Cue the immersive debate about how this was not possible and he couldn't have it, although technically the rules did not specify he couldn't. Then someone pointed out they were discussing a talking monkey who wore clothes and used a machine gun and arguing about the mechanical possibility of a silencer on an M60. There was a quiet pause followed by various versions of "Yeah, fair enough" and disbelief was suspended was ever so slightly more so the game could continue.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 14, 2020, 02:18:07 PM
I wonder if there is a term to describe that point where our suspension of disbelief fails? And does it usually fail at issues that are grounded in reality? Silencers on machine guns or things with no lungs blowing horns?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on March 14, 2020, 06:58:37 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on March 14, 2020, 08:45:09 AM
Although I have a feeling you may have been joking

Yes, sorry. A bit of an Eats Shoots and Leaves joke.

I got it, but was also then left struggling to see how I could have punctuated for more clarity
😁
I'm not sure I understand the Oxford comma but would thus have been an instance?
"skeleton musicians, with horns"
I'm not sure that's any better. Or that this thread is the right place for grammatical discourse.
🤪
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 14, 2020, 07:13:50 PM
My apologies, I was trying to be amusing.

One of the features of the English language (besides stealing anything that is not nailed down) is its ability to have multiple meanings.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 14, 2020, 07:17:30 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on March 14, 2020, 07:13:50 PM
My apologies, I was trying to be amusing.

One of the features of the English language (besides stealing anything that is not nailed down) is its ability to have multiple meanings.

Structural ambiguity is a great source of humour
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on March 14, 2020, 07:41:20 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on March 14, 2020, 07:13:50 PM
One of the features of the English language (besides stealing anything that is not nailed down) is its ability to have multiple meanings.

It totally stole that from other languages, though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 14, 2020, 09:13:26 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on March 14, 2020, 07:13:50 PM
My apologies, I was trying to be amusing.

One of the features of the English language (besides stealing anything that is not nailed down) is its ability to have multiple meanings.
I got it, just the written word is hard to judge sometimes if there is humour or seriousness. I actually read the original as a horned skeleton.
Should it be named a horny skeleton? A little hard to tell with the armoured loin cloth in the way I guess (assuming it is a male skeleton that is)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 14, 2020, 10:04:17 PM
Quote from: beefcake on March 14, 2020, 09:13:26 PM
Should it be named a horny skeleton?
That would be a boner?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on March 15, 2020, 10:08:25 AM
Can anyone link me to the newer, dynamic chaos warriors on the UK GW site? I can't find them at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on March 15, 2020, 01:25:11 PM
I think they are only available in the starter army set
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on March 15, 2020, 01:29:16 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on March 15, 2020, 01:25:11 PM
I think they are only available in the starter army set

Ah thank - was that always the case?
Oh well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 15, 2020, 02:17:26 PM
They are here
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-PL/Start-Collecting-Slaves-to-Darkness-Collection-EN-2019

But I fail to see them as stand alone
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cultist of Sooty on March 15, 2020, 02:35:48 PM
Quote from: beefcake on March 14, 2020, 09:13:26 PM
I got it, just the written word is hard to judge sometimes if there is humour or seriousness. I actually read the original as a horned skeleton.
Should it be named a horny skeleton? A little hard to tell with the armoured loin cloth in the way I guess (assuming it is a male skeleton that is)
So, something like this chap from Diehard Miniatures...?

(https://diehardminiatures.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Satyr.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on March 15, 2020, 04:20:23 PM
Quote from: Jagannath on March 15, 2020, 01:29:16 PM
Ah thank - was that always the case?
Oh well.
The different units do appear to all be on separate sprues however, so they could be released independently at some point - although there is no telling if or when...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 16, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on March 14, 2020, 10:04:17 PM
That would be a boner?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaSu0RgRUh8
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 21, 2020, 07:29:31 PM
I dont know if this is permanent or Korona contingency but GW opened their twitch archive for free.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on March 22, 2020, 06:54:46 AM
Yes, it is to keep people entertained during the mandatory or self-imposed isolation, and the lengthy hobby sessions for which there may now be time.
Videos can be found here: https://www.twitch.tv/warhammer/videos
Mostly battle reports, interviews and painting streams.

They also mentioned they would be offering some event-exclusive models online for limited periods, seeing as the events are cancelled.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 22, 2020, 07:06:22 AM
Thanks for the link Coenus! :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: LordOdo on March 22, 2020, 10:34:06 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on March 22, 2020, 06:54:46 AM


They also mentioned they would be offering some event-exclusive models online for limited periods, seeing as the events are cancelled.

Curious to these!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 22, 2020, 01:42:32 PM
So far they shown this guy:
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/BloodGloryReveals-Nov2-EventExclusiveMarine10tc.jpg)

No info how will he ba available
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 22, 2020, 02:30:12 PM
He's quite nice...shame about the Ultra-Smurf skirt he's wearing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 22, 2020, 07:25:44 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on March 22, 2020, 02:30:12 PM
He's quite nice...shame about the Ultra-Smurf skirt he's wearing.

In these modern times any marine is able to don a skirt.

However, for those of you who are not such huge fans of leather and metal studs, you could always convert it to a loin cloth which is better fitting to a number of other chapters.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 22, 2020, 07:28:56 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on March 22, 2020, 07:25:44 PM
However, for those of you who are not such huge fans of leather and metal studs, you could always convert it to a loin cloth which is better fitting to a number of other chapters.

I suspect that the tabard is a separate piece.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 23, 2020, 04:03:03 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on March 22, 2020, 07:25:44 PM
In these modern times any marine is able to don a skirt.


Modern, I thought 40k was the future? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on March 23, 2020, 06:58:33 AM
I’m not concerned about his tabard,however I’m a little worried about his thyroid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 23, 2020, 11:47:50 AM
Quote from: Blackwolf on March 23, 2020, 06:58:33 AM
I’m not concerned about his tabard,however I’m a little worried about his thyroid.

You got my attention :)
WHy?


Quote from: pixelgeek on March 22, 2020, 07:28:56 PM
I suspect that the tabard is a separate piece.

All modern monoposes have it molded to the legs belt/chest
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 23, 2020, 01:54:34 PM
Quote from: AWu on March 23, 2020, 11:47:50 AM
All modern monoposes have it molded to the legs belt/chest

I keep on forgetting all the weird things they can do with the 3D sculpts these days. That said, if it is part of the left leg it may be possible to remove it and cover the space with some greenstuff
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on March 23, 2020, 06:31:40 PM
Quote from: AWu on March 23, 2020, 11:47:50 AM
You got my attention :)
WHy?

His bulging eyes :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 24, 2020, 03:20:07 AM
Interesting news on the Old World front. It seems kislev will be a playable faction again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 24, 2020, 08:26:11 AM
Nice concepts but it seems odd that the first unit they show isn't as grounded as I'm sure a lot of WFB fans would like.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 24, 2020, 08:42:27 AM
What worries me is that the insanely OTT Sigmar aesthetics seem to carrying forward into the Old World project, meaning it won't actually be anything like the Old World at all. Why do the weapons have to literally be made of ice? Ah well, it's not aimed at me I guess ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 24, 2020, 10:26:44 AM
Yes I was a bit disappointed at that also.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on March 24, 2020, 10:37:29 AM
Well COVID-19 finally reached GW as well. I got this mail an hour ago:

Quote
Hi Everyone,

Seems it’s finally time to stay at home and tackle that pile of sprue you’ve been stashing under the bed and finish that half-painted unit that’s been languishing on your desk.

The safety and wellbeing of all our customers and staff are paramount to everyone here at Games Workshop. In response to the developing global situation surrounding the spread of COVID-19, and following the advice and instruction from both the government here in the UK and throughout the world – we are closing Games Workshop sites around the globe.

This means that all our Warhammer and Games Workshop stores will be shut from the 24th March until an initial date of the 14th April. We’ll also be closing our factory and distribution centres – so our online stores (Games Workshop, Forge World and Black Library) won’t be selling or shipping any physical products during this period either. If you’ve recently placed an order and are waiting for it to arrive, please give us 48 hours to contact you. If you've still got questions after that, then please drop our Customer Service team a line via email, they’ll be valiantly working from home to ensure you’re supported over this period.

Now, more than ever, the wonderful spirit of friendship and cooperation that binds Warhammer hobbyists around the world is needed. With that in mind, the Warhammer Community and Warhammer TV teams are bunkered down in their hobby rooms at home ready to update warhammer-community.com with fun Warhammer news, articles and content each and every day.

And, of course, you’ll also still be able to keep yourself entertained with some cracking ebooks and audio dramas from Black Library’s digital offering.

Most importantly, everyone stay safe – be supportive to the people around you, and keep your mind and body happy and healthy. When this all blows over, we’ll get back to throwing dice together soon enough!

Sincerely,

Andy Smillie
Global Head of Warhammer Community Team
Tuesday 24th March 2020
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: LordOdo on March 24, 2020, 10:54:23 AM
Read that too.

So I guess it will actually not be possible to get those limited models..

About Kislev, I'm happy to see the Old World again, but weapons made of ice... :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 24, 2020, 01:47:17 PM
Understandable.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 24, 2020, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: LordOdo on March 24, 2020, 10:54:23 AM
About Kislev, I'm happy to see the Old World again, but weapons made of ice... :?

That does seem troubling. I'm curious to see how they are going to rerelease their old miniatures as well. Or are they?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 24, 2020, 04:26:14 PM
Did anyone else see those kislevs and remembered the medieval Russians fireforge done?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on March 24, 2020, 04:32:17 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 24, 2020, 08:42:27 AM
What worries me is that the insanely OTT Sigmar aesthetics seem to carrying forward into the Old World project, meaning it won't actually be anything like the Old World at all. Why do the weapons have to literally be made of ice? Ah well, it's not aimed at me I guess ...

Agreed.
Looks like the same aesthetic will be used, so I am another losing interest in the 'Old' World.....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on March 24, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
Had a feeling they'd do that when it was announced. The overall art direction and sculpting style went in the World of Warcraft direction before they blew the Old World up. Personally, I say pick your favourite Old World incarnation and have fun with that - plenty of alternative figures out there that fit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 24, 2020, 11:23:08 PM
Maybe they'll release the old world stuff in Glorious Metal*




*Silver coloured plastic
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 25, 2020, 12:38:19 AM
Quote from: beefcake on March 24, 2020, 11:23:08 PM
Maybe they'll release the old world stuff in Glorious Metal*




*Silver coloured plastic

Can they even spin metal at scale anymore? Or will any old figures be the similar to the week-long releases they have been doing this last year?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 25, 2020, 01:40:30 AM
I'd hate to see the prices of any of their latest stuff in metal. Such gigantic pieces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on March 25, 2020, 02:33:01 AM
Quote from: Mason on March 24, 2020, 04:32:17 PM
Agreed.
Looks like the same aesthetic will be used, so I am another losing interest in the 'Old' World.....
If it's not actually old world then it isn't going to get my money.  Seems dumb.  Do old world or sell AOS and ignore the old world.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 25, 2020, 09:39:27 AM
Looks like that have shut their online ordering  down atm? .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 25, 2020, 01:37:17 PM
Yep, shut their factory as well as stores. I was hoping to convert some of the new escher minis during the lockdown, but I guess nothing will be being released for a while.

On the Kislevs: I can live with ice weapons if they're magical items that characters have. In any case that female warrior has excellent necromunda conversion potential!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on March 26, 2020, 01:35:38 PM
Quote from: beefcake on March 25, 2020, 01:40:30 AM
I'd hate to see the prices of any of their latest stuff in metal. Such gigantic pieces.

I'd hate to tray and get it all glued together.  Lots of pinning. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 26, 2020, 09:11:32 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on March 25, 2020, 01:37:17 PM
Yep, shut their factory as well as stores. I was hoping to convert some of the new escher minis during the lockdown, but I guess nothing will be being released for a while.

On the Kislevs: I can live with ice weapons if they're magical items that characters have. In any case that female warrior has excellent necromunda conversion potential!
I think they are for a special ice queen guard. They are some sort of wizard themselves as well. I imagine like the old light wizard acolytes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on March 28, 2020, 02:46:25 PM
New AoS Aelves previews

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/829c2834.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/0e6714ef.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ec6c7698.jpg)

I generally do not like elves, but I really like how over the top this new faction is.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on March 28, 2020, 02:51:43 PM
Quote from: McMordain on March 28, 2020, 02:46:25 PM
New AoS Aelves previews

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/829c2834.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/0e6714ef.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ec6c7698.jpg)

I generally do not like elves, but I really like how over the top this new faction is.  lol

How the fluk do they ever get through any door :o, el-stupido lol.

Jumped the shark with these lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 28, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on March 28, 2020, 02:51:43 PM
How the fluk do they ever get through any door :o, el-stupido lol.

Jumped the shark with these lol

Because nothing says Elf like bull horns, massive hammers and a giant minotaur carrying little mountains on its shoulders.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-83iSFTPc01s/Tws28xQFdOI/AAAAAAAAAok/dBJfbGv6_qQ/s1600/jump+shark.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 28, 2020, 03:02:48 PM
(https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91022532_10158098022628236_604114178411593728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=ca434c&_nc_ohc=UOo7mVuZkIsAX8zbPpj&_nc_ht=scontent-waw1-1.xx&oh=c2a334d8a4d8e4a3fae3ee2c7addf351&oe=5EA3AF98)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on March 28, 2020, 03:45:39 PM
And I just realised mini-Bonsai trees :? lol o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on March 28, 2020, 03:54:25 PM
Fabius Bile didn't change much, another case of not really being able (or not needing) to improve a classic Jes Goodwin design :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 28, 2020, 04:47:24 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 28, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
Because nothing says Elf like bull horns, massive hammers and a giant minotaur carrying little mountains on its shoulders.

They are mountain spirits. There is an earth theme that runs through some of the models and it is getting expressed more evidently in these larger models. The elves with the hammer are guardians for the mountain spirits or they fight with them... something like that.

The horns and emblem on their helmets is a bit extreme though. A shorter version of it might not have seemed so odd.

I do rather like the big guys though. Too bad I'll never be able to afford them
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 28, 2020, 05:09:39 PM
The high elves look stupid!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on March 28, 2020, 05:34:43 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on March 28, 2020, 05:09:39 PM
The high elves look stupid!

Well technically they are light aelves.
But yeah they look stupid, so they fit right into the AoS aesthetic and I love it.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 28, 2020, 05:44:30 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on March 28, 2020, 05:09:39 PM
The high elves look stupid!

Put some effort into it. There are so many things a person could make fun of and you just say they are 'stupid'.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on March 28, 2020, 06:22:52 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 28, 2020, 05:44:30 PM
Put some effort into it. There are so many things a person could make fun of and you just say they are 'stupid'.  ;)

Ok they look Astupid, see what I did there, quick GW will copyright it lol

G
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 28, 2020, 06:24:43 PM
Why waste my time an effort, but I wonder how many aelf or what ever you want to call them players have been left with that weird taste in your mouth when you quite not been sick  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 28, 2020, 06:52:49 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on March 28, 2020, 06:24:43 PM
Why waste my time an effort

Well if you really want to save time and effort you could just not post?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 28, 2020, 06:53:21 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on March 28, 2020, 06:22:52 PM
Ok they look Astupid

Should probably be Aestupid
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on March 28, 2020, 06:59:37 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 28, 2020, 06:53:21 PM
Should probably be Aestupid

Very possibly  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AWu on March 28, 2020, 08:16:07 PM
I like them

Lets be honest High Elves with those stupid cone giant helmets were AEstupid for some 30 odd years :>
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 28, 2020, 08:17:33 PM
I actually don't mind the basic look of the Aelves, sort of high elf crossed with the LotR Guards of the Fountain Court:
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99801464029_GuardsoftheFountainCourtNEW01.jpg)

I've always like those.

I just don't like the silly mountain on the shoulders, or the beast tips to the helms...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 28, 2020, 08:17:47 PM
Quote from: AWu on March 28, 2020, 08:16:07 PM
I like them

Lets be honest High Elves with those stupid cone giant helmets were AEstupid for some 30 odd years :>
They were from France.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 28, 2020, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on March 28, 2020, 08:17:33 PM
I just don't like the silly mountain on the shoulders

I quite like those. The bonsai trees don't look right (the colour saturation is wrong against those mountains)  but they probably added them for a sense of continuity across the range since they are used elsewhere.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 28, 2020, 09:31:34 PM
High Aelves, Horny Elves, its their new Aesthetic ? Elves gain a letter to their names and go all horny?

And they have Rockeries. next they will want a shrubbery to go with them.

I guess the new Aelf building scenery that will come out will have swing-barn-doors, or they all walk sideways everywhere.

but otherwise they are quite pretty....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on March 28, 2020, 09:40:31 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on March 28, 2020, 06:52:49 PM
Well if you really want to save time and effort you could just not post?
Sorry didn't know I wasn't entitled to voice my opinion
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 28, 2020, 09:49:11 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on March 28, 2020, 09:40:31 PM
Sorry didn't know I wasn't entitled to voice my opinion

Voice it all you want. Just make it worth the time and energy of people to read. "That is stupid" is about the level of critique of a fie year old. Surely you can reach higher standards than that?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 28, 2020, 09:56:23 PM
I doubt anyone wants that discussion to continue ^^

I like the Aestupids. The monsters have a kinda Slaaneshi feel to me, the first one kinda makes me think of the original Keeper of Secrets. Might just be me though :)

The new Flame-grilled Warcry faction looks cool for the most part. A couple of bad sculpts but a bunch of really nice ones. Might buy a box if I can sustain enthusiasm until lockdown is over.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on March 28, 2020, 11:06:41 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on March 28, 2020, 09:56:23 PM
I like the Aestupids. The monsters have a kinda Slaaneshi feel to me, the first one kinda makes me think of the original Keeper of Secrets. Might just be me though :)


I think they do and I do think that is deliberate. Slaanesh had all of their souls and they were drawn out of him/her/them
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on March 29, 2020, 09:38:45 AM
I like the bonsai trees (but not the bonsai mountains).

Why does the one with the trees have a flat paper mask over his/her/its face?

Also it is a very flat and static pose.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on March 29, 2020, 01:01:51 PM
Quote from: Cubs on March 28, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
Because nothing says Elf like bull horns, massive hammers and a giant minotaur carrying little mountains on its shoulders.

I've never seen an elf but if someone told me they wore helmets with bull horns, carried massive hammers and created giant minotaur avatars of the mountains, I'd say fair enough.

I am wishing I'd got round to sculpting the big armoured fairies wearing silly tall horned helmets that I've been scribbling in my sketchbook for the past year and a half, though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hammers on April 01, 2020, 11:57:25 AM
Quote from: McMordain on March 28, 2020, 02:46:25 PM
New AoS Aelves previews

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/829c2834.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/0e6714ef.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ec6c7698.jpg)

I generally do not like elves, but I really like how over the top this new faction is.  lol

The Lawn Croquet storm troopers
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 01, 2020, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: Hammers on April 01, 2020, 11:57:25 AM
The Lawn Croquet storm troopers

 lol lol lol

Bizarre, or what!
 o_o o_o

Good Chaos conversion fodder, though.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 01, 2020, 03:20:33 PM
Bloody hell whatever next, the Knights that say "Neeeeee!" lol lol lol lol lol

Actually that would be way, way better :-*

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 01, 2020, 04:10:39 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on April 01, 2020, 03:20:33 PM
Bloody hell whatever next, the Knights that say "Neeeeee!" lol lol lol lol lol

Actually that would be way, way better :-*

Glen
THAT would be brilliant with a shrubbery on top.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 01, 2020, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: Hammers on April 01, 2020, 11:57:25 AM
The Lawn Croquet storm troopers

Now I'm never going to see them as anything else. Good thing I wasn't going to buy them anyway
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 01, 2020, 04:33:45 PM
The Aestupelfs with the two handed hammers would really have to practice not hitting their horns every swing..

"no,no,no swing the hammers from side to side or underarm in combat, never up and down!!"

"remember your balls and wickets!, Croquet for the Croquet God!!!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 01, 2020, 05:05:34 PM
...hmm...maybe the horns are actually spring loaded and just kinda twang back into place after every swing... lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 01, 2020, 05:17:18 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on April 01, 2020, 05:05:34 PM
...hmm...maybe the horns are actually spring loaded and just kinda twang back into place after every swing... lol lol lol

I think they are nerf safety foam, they are capped as well for safety see?


All silliness aside, I'm not a huge fan either. I do like seeing them trying something a bit different? if something along this line was made 30 years ago they would be that obscure unit some people go wild for.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on April 01, 2020, 05:28:30 PM
That's interesting idea, They are nicely detailed, etc, but a bit to far out maybe,

Still they are some sort of elite?  special rules for crutch shots?

So  maybe others units will continue to be less horny?

or maybe that's how they carry their bows when not using them?

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on April 01, 2020, 07:16:18 PM
With those Aelves I would agree that the shark has been jumped.

Makes me wonder what they will come up with for the relaunch of Warhammer Fantasy. By the look of the latest Middle Earth minis I am expecting at the very least exaggerated, heroic blocky sculpts. The new plastic Eomer looks like he has the physique of the Rock and the characters faces seem to look a lot less like the actors in the movies. More like Clone Wars animation styled features.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Aerendar Valandil on April 01, 2020, 08:01:18 PM
I'm not a GW-basher and I liked the recent cavalry and infantry. But this is really beyond me.

This is what have come to expect though: sometimes what they make is impressively good, some things are impressively ..ehm.. not my taste.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 04, 2020, 04:03:19 PM
GW are doing a virtual voucher thing in April. For every £50 you spend on virtual vouchers they'll add £5 to it. Then, at the time of the great rebirth you can spend them on what you want.

Details here - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/GW-Virtual-Gift-Voucher)

I had my eye on the new skinks starter set but didn't get a chance to purchase before the great shutdown. It's tempting to get some now and save a few quid when I get around to buying them
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on April 11, 2020, 03:42:46 AM
I'd say do it. You get a big ol' laser cannon/snake gun with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on April 15, 2020, 10:16:56 PM
Henry Cavill (the Witcher) paints miniatures, GW no less,as seen on Bored Panda :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 15, 2020, 10:20:26 PM
Yeah, MrsCub spotted that. I'm sure it was because of her interest in GW, and nothing to do with the possibility of him taking his shirt off at some point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on April 15, 2020, 10:30:05 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 15, 2020, 10:20:26 PM
Yeah, MrsCub spotted that. I'm sure it was because of her interest in GW, and nothing to do with the possibility of him taking his shirt off at some point.
lol  You could always try the same thing. Not for me though, almost 55...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on April 16, 2020, 03:25:31 AM
Quote from: Cubs on April 15, 2020, 10:20:26 PM
Yeah, MrsCub spotted that. I'm sure it was because of her interest in GW, and nothing to do with the possibility of him taking his shirt off at some point.
No doubt it was her keen interest in new GW material that you might share an interest in. His shirt was certainly not a point of interest.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 16, 2020, 11:24:38 PM
Quote from: syrinx0 on April 16, 2020, 03:25:31 AM
His shirt was certainly not a point of interest.  lol

She said she was worried he might get paint on it and thought if he took it off, it would just be sensible to prevent him ruining it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on April 17, 2020, 01:03:35 AM
A quite sensible recommendation.  Of course you could provide him an old tshirt so he doesn't get cold....    lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on April 17, 2020, 10:48:30 PM
Quote from: syrinx0 on April 17, 2020, 01:03:35 AM
A quite sensible recommendation.  Of course you could provide him an old tshirt so he doesn't get cold....    lol

She could then of course spill something on it...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Exiledadmiral on April 28, 2020, 11:18:42 AM
There's a pretty sweet looking catachan colonel in the pipeline, exclusive to third party retailers and GW are giving it to them for free so they can keep all the profits.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/04/28/reopening-soon-games-workshop-com/

Nice looking miniature! Need to get in touch with my flgs and get one preordered I reckon!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 28, 2020, 12:22:37 PM
It looks like Danny glover? 🤔
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 28, 2020, 02:09:59 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on April 28, 2020, 12:22:37 PM
It looks like Danny glover? 🤔

More like Carl Weathers
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: commanderkaiser on April 28, 2020, 02:12:03 PM
It does look like such a cool model. I'm really tempted to put my name down at my flgs but I just know I'd buy it and it would sit in a pile for years  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on April 28, 2020, 02:17:40 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on April 28, 2020, 02:09:59 PM
More like Carl Weathers
Yes even better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on April 29, 2020, 12:58:56 PM
Quote from: Exiledadmiral on April 28, 2020, 11:18:42 AM
There's a pretty sweet looking catachan colonel in the pipeline, exclusive to third party retailers and GW are giving it to them for free so they can keep all the profits.
I have to say, that's a pretty classy move on the part of GW. It feels like it wasn't all that long ago that GW was doing all it could to cause third party retailers to wither on the vine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on April 29, 2020, 02:19:11 PM
Gotta say that Catachan fella is one of the best GW figures that I have seen for a while.
 8)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on April 30, 2020, 12:14:05 AM
Quote from: blacksoilbill on April 29, 2020, 12:58:56 PM
I have to say, that's a pretty classy move on the part of GW. It feels like it wasn't all that long ago that GW was doing all it could to cause third party retailers to wither on the vine.

I agree, very classy.

There was a bit of a swing with third party retailers. Way back when there were fewer GW shops they were pretty good so far as I am aware. Then the dawning of online shopping and ebay occurred. And this got GW's backs up. And to be fair, also some FLGS. At that time GW, so far as I am aware, GW was giving out a blanket retail discount. What happened was that folks were able to buy cheap GW stuff, hawk it on ebay for huge discounts 30%+ at times and do it all from their spare room / garage.

This is not a good business model. It means that all of the hard work of GW's own stores and FLGS was being undercut meaning that players would happily play games at clubs etc and visit stores less. In many ways it's not particularly supportive of the hobby either.

The last time I checked, and this may be a bit out of date now, they had changed it to a structure instead of a blanket discount. This means that if you don't meet certain criteria the discount isn't as good.  Things like shelf space, having one of their racks, having a gaming table and able to demo their games etc. Makes sense to me and also cuts out the huge under-cutters who don't have the overheads that the FLGS and GW stores have for providing an entrance into the hobby and for continuing to consistently support it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on April 30, 2020, 01:33:38 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on April 30, 2020, 12:14:05 AM
There was a bit of a swing with third party retailers. Way back when there were fewer GW shops they were pretty good so far as I am aware. Then the dawning of online shopping and ebay occurred. And this got GW's backs up. And to be fair, also some FLGS. At that time GW, so far as I am aware, GW was giving out a blanket retail discount. What happened was that folks were able to buy cheap GW stuff, hawk it on ebay for huge discounts 30%+ at times and do it all from their spare room / garage.
I wasn't really aware of these factors. Good to know, thanks!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 30, 2020, 02:25:36 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on April 30, 2020, 12:14:05 AM
The last time I checked, and this may be a bit out of date now, they had changed it to a structure instead of a blanket discount. This means that if you don't meet certain criteria the discount isn't as good.  Things like shelf space, having one of their racks, having a gaming table and able to demo their games etc. Makes sense to me and also cuts out the huge under-cutters who don't have the overheads that the FLGS and GW stores have for providing an entrance into the hobby and for continuing to consistently support it.

It also limits what product you can get, how much and how often.

My FLGS can order in 'special order' product that even the local GW store can't get in.

They also restrict when you can promote product online and how much of a discount you can offer it at.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on April 30, 2020, 02:43:57 AM
Not saying they are not much better at supporting local stores now but years ago they put my favorite store out of business by adding a GW store in the same area.  The other local gaming store dropped GW and miniatures completely.  I buy online now. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on April 30, 2020, 05:33:23 AM
Quote from: syrinx0 on April 30, 2020, 02:43:57 AM
Not saying they are not much better at supporting local stores now but years ago they put my favorite store out of business by adding a GW store in the same area.  The other local gaming store dropped GW and miniatures completely.  I buy online now.

Yours was not the only one. Tom Kirby was a tw*t.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on May 01, 2020, 09:24:24 AM
Apparently the Catachan Colonel is limited to 1 model per store....needless to say its already on eBay for between £100 to £400.... well done GW....  >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Exiledadmiral on May 01, 2020, 09:35:25 AM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on May 01, 2020, 09:24:24 AM
Apparently the Catachan Colonel is limited to 1 model per store....needless to say its already on eBay for between £100 to £400.... well done GW....  >:(

Bloody hell, guess I'm not bothering then! Who's spending £400 on a miniature?!

It'll probably come out down the line anyway, like 'event exclusive' Lieutenant Amulius, which was available online a few months ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on May 01, 2020, 09:44:02 AM
Well the event exclusive was released cos the events were cancelled. None of the other (as far as I know) limited miniatures have been re-released.  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Exiledadmiral on May 01, 2020, 10:32:45 AM
Oh was that the reasoning? Makes sense. If you can get to warhammer world easily they sometimes have them there though, we went to warhammer fest 2019 and my mate got an Amulius but I didn't bother. We then went to warhammer world, I think for the paint day, and they had a shelf full in the shop!

Presumably there's some minimum number they need to shift to make producing the model worthwhile? It's the first exclusive in a long time I've actually wanted!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on May 01, 2020, 10:59:29 AM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on May 01, 2020, 09:24:24 AM
Apparently the Catachan Colonel is limited to 1 model per store....needless to say its already on eBay for between £100 to £400.... well done GW....  >:(

It's not one per store, but it's also not masses more at the moment.

Most of the "event exclusives" are cleverly titled that and often are available at other "events" too. Some of them have been seen several times now.

However, in this instance, they were to help out the FLGS who have more than likely taken a hit, especially if they don't have an online shop. Or, if in the case of my favoured FLGS, happened to be in the process of moving premises due to success, to a new store in a slightly more expensive but larger footfall part of the City.

I love the miniature, but I love the hobby more. If there is someone out there who wants it enough to pay £400 for it and it helps my FLGS store to keep going during these challenging times, then I am not going to get upset one bit. Sorry, but the hobby, the local gaming community and the fortunes of a small one man business are far more important than my like of a piece of plastic.

It really isn't something anyone should be getting upset over.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on May 01, 2020, 06:24:46 PM
Reports I've seen so far indicate between 1 and 4 models per store, presumably based on the store's size.
It's a bit silly that GW states that gifting such a small number of models will in any way massively affect the independent stores' income in these trying times, as they'll only make hundreds extra by indeed eBaying them... Can't fully blame stores in dire straits for going down that road, but not a fan of it either. I see the stores advertising it as being to "support the local store", but most local customers obviously won't be the ones bidding on and purchasing those figures. Some other stores are using theirs in raffles, which sounds like a much better way to raise funds and involve the local community.

At any rate, I can't see it as a bad move from GW either. These would presumably have been the full amount of models they currently had available, spread thinly as there are so many stores. It could take months to make more, assuming their restarting production runs focus on normal items for direct sales and restocking stores (in addition to which production will be slowed down for the foreseeable future too).

That's the second new Catachan character figure though. Wonder if those old, absolutely horrible plastic troops may actually finally be replaced in the nearish future...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Exiledadmiral on May 01, 2020, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on May 01, 2020, 06:24:46 PM
That's the second new Catachan character figure though. Wonder if those old, absolutely horrible plastic troops may actually finally be replaced in the nearish future...

I hope so! The commands squads, heavies, tanks and even the ogryns and ratlings are up to date these days, it's just those ugly old troopers spoiling the view.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 01, 2020, 09:45:49 PM
The metal cetaceans are vastly superior IMO.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 01, 2020, 09:57:53 PM
Stores could always raffle them off
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on May 01, 2020, 11:26:54 PM
Personally I feel a better way would have been for GW to offer this mini to stores free with their regular orders for a limited time, say six months to a year, with a recommended RRP, that way people who collected the limited minis or played Guard would be able to get hold of one. As it stands very few people are going to get hold of one, and its just going to leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.

One store close to me is getting 1 mini, they are raffling it, to get a ticket you have to spend so much on GW products, how much you spend will result in how many tickets you get.... Well guess my Guard army isnt getting a new colonel.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 02, 2020, 10:50:01 AM
So, the store manager will get a miniature then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on May 02, 2020, 02:48:16 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on May 01, 2020, 11:26:54 PM
Personally I feel a better way would have been for GW to offer this mini to stores free with their regular orders for a limited time, say six months to a year, with a recommended RRP, that way people who collected the limited minis or played Guard would be able to get hold of one. As it stands very few people are going to get hold of one, and its just going to leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.

One store close to me is getting 1 mini, they are raffling it, to get a ticket you have to spend so much on GW products, how much you spend will result in how many tickets you get.... Well guess my Guard army isnt getting a new colonel.

That's the same as my FLGS.

The next bit will be hard to hear perhaps. It is not meant as a personal attack and more of an observation.

I have never really liked limited edition miniatures. A lot of the time it makes their value inflate unrealistically, as in, not all of them are even worth the hassle. So I gave up giving a damn a very long time ago. But part of this is also that no one is entitled to a product. Should we get angry that it isn't more readily available just because it means we can get one? It doesn't sit right with me. It's limited, not all of us will be able to get one. However, as I said before, if this means the FLGS are being able to make money to keep them going, then I struggle to see why anyone has an issue.

The entire Kingdom Death business model is based on limited editions. 90% of what appears to be the now OOP CMON range was limited in number. There are way, way, way more things to get upset about, least of all models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 02, 2020, 07:09:27 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on May 02, 2020, 02:48:16 PM
But part of this is also that no one is entitled to a product. Should we get angry that it isn't more readily available just because it means we can get one?

True words.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 02, 2020, 09:01:49 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on May 02, 2020, 02:48:16 PM
But part of this is also that no one is entitled to a product. Should we get angry that it isn't more readily available just because it means we can get one?

Yeah, I want to second, or third, or second Pixelgeek's seconding, this. Nothing annoys me more in the hobby. (Not saying Mr Flip was expressing this sense of entitlement).

To be honest, as good as that mini is, I've seen way better conversions of IG officers out of existing GW bits. If you want it but can't get it, hit up the bitz stockists and make your own.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on May 02, 2020, 10:41:31 PM
My favourite Imperial Guard officer model? It isn't GW. And it isn't Imperial Guard. But it works.

(http://www.hfminis.co.uk/img_cms/product_images/A201%20Major%20Hoare%20green.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 03, 2020, 10:04:52 AM
I think the issue is simply one of messaging.

First, a post goes up saying "New whatsit coming soon! Extra special and cool!" and then players are left to find out on their own, a bit later, that OH BY THE WAY, this is being dropped in such limited quantities that you probably won't ever get one.

That's the worst of both worlds, as you allow people to become excited for something, to start planning how they'll use it, only to shoot them out of the saddle. That's where the so-called "feeling of entitlement" occurs, because in my experience nothing pisses people off more than taking away something they thought they had (even though players don't "have" an unreleased item, there is the presumption that the average collector can buy one and the brain treats it as such).

If the mini is described as being extremely limited in the original release, you're setting expectations much more appropriately. People will be excited at the possibility of getting one, but not to the point where they expect one.

Leaving stores with no guidelines is also not the best idea. I've seen this exact sort of promotion from many game companies before (offer something extremely limited to a store for them to dispose of as they see fit), and many store owners find the marginal profits (because the item is so damn limited in the first place), to be far worse than the headache, with long time customers arguing over it or blaming the owner for a poor distribution scheme, meaning those owners end up bearing the brunt of fanboy rage and the intention of helping their LGSs backfires. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on May 03, 2020, 10:46:56 AM
Sorry but that hasn't happened locally and doesn't seem to have happened in the example above either.

And to be fair, the time between the initial announcement and the clarification about numbers for stores was pretty fast. 24hrs at most I think. And it clearly wasn't planned. GW admitted as much. And it didn't have weeks and weeks of lead time only to find out before the day.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on May 03, 2020, 03:08:08 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 03, 2020, 10:04:52 AM
First, a post goes up saying "New whatsit coming soon! Extra special and cool!" and then players are left to find out on their own, a bit later, that OH BY THE WAY, this is being dropped in such limited quantities that you probably won't ever get one.

We're all adults here. I think we should all be able to handle disappointment. Blaming GW because they weren't specific enough about distribution is just trying to avoid taking responsibility.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 03, 2020, 07:07:00 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on May 03, 2020, 03:08:08 PM
We're all adults here. I think we should all be able to handle disappointment. Blaming GW because they weren't specific enough about distribution is just trying to avoid taking responsibility.

Well, we did have posters expressing disappointment (or sardonicisms). Whether it's handled well or not, doesn't mean something that was intended to make folks feel good has instead made them feel bad.

And this is LAF. If we want to claim we're all adults here, that's fine, but the gaming public in general =/= LAF!

Mcfonz, maybe your PARTICULAR store's clientele is comprised of entirely sensible, well-behaved, emotionally-balanced individuals, but I assure you that when I was talking about store owners who find these sorts of things more headache than help, I am talking about real people, whom I know personally, who currently operate gaming stores. Nor are these owners blaming their customers or saying their customers are horrible either, but when you have literally thousands of registered customers, never mind the unregistered ones (I realize not all stores are this big - I know owners of more "ordinary" stores too), and you get one or four boxes of ~whatever~, the revenue is basically insignificant.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 03, 2020, 07:15:42 PM
I'm not even really blaming GW here. It's a mistake, but one made trying to be helpful ("I'M HELPING!"). It just didn't have a lot of thought put into it, which speaks to the fact that they need to re-engage with LGSes, if they really do want to support them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Exiledadmiral on May 03, 2020, 08:21:59 PM
I agree with everyone!

I'm going to go ahead and say I was disappointed that I'm not getting this mini. I got over it pretty quickly, but the feeling was there.

That's not to say that I want my flgs to go under, and if they've only got one or two to sell I hope they sell them for as much as they possibly can.

I'm banking on them doing another run as an event exclusive or something, since the model itself must have been in the pipeline long before this, and aren't plastic moulds horrendously expensive to get set up first time round?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on May 04, 2020, 08:46:16 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on May 03, 2020, 10:46:56 AM
Sorry but that hasn't happened locally and doesn't seem to have happened in the example above either.

And to be fair, the time between the initial announcement and the clarification about numbers for stores was pretty fast. 24hrs at most I think.
From GW? I may well have overlooked things, but I have seen no statements from GW itself about the extent to which the models were limited. They were advertised as a "special edition" mini that was no doubt somewhat restricted in number, but the first I heard exactly how restricted was from random forum dwellers who in turn heard from their local store (and when that came out, other local stores still didn't appear to have any idea how many they would get). If I were a store owner, I may indeed rather have had GW keep their 2 Catachans than have to disappoint a few dozen customers by explaining the situation and just how few minis were provided.

Quote from: FramFramson on May 03, 2020, 10:04:52 AM
I think the issue is simply one of messaging.

First, a post goes up saying "New whatsit coming soon! Extra special and cool!" and then players are left to find out on their own, a bit later, that OH BY THE WAY, this is being dropped in such limited quantities that you probably won't ever get one. [...]
I think that's a fair point. Yes, people really shouldn't be getting too upset about not being able to purchase some particular toy soldier. But people would have been less disappointed if it was immediately clear they would almost certainly be unable to obtain it, rather than how it went down now.


As for the whole limited edition thing, well, it is what it is. I guess I typically don't really care as I don't care for the models in question anyway (for GW specifically, the limited models are space marines 80% of the time, which is excellent as my interest in those is even more limited than the number of Catachans available to independent game stores!). But I'd probably be annoyed if a faction I'm a big fan of that hardly ever gets new releases finally appears to get something new and great, only to later find out I'd either have to spend about 200 quid or I'm out of luck. The normal artificial limitation drives up prices a fair bit (including the actual RRP...), but the amount this one goes for on eBay...  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on May 05, 2020, 12:58:53 AM
I think there needs to be a clear line here.

GW rarely makes a model they describe as 'limited edition' anymore. They have miniatures that they call 'Event Only' - which has been something that they have done for quite some time, prior to doing plastic miniatures even. It tends to mean they carry a stock of them at events, which included Salute a few years ago. It just meant they were not available at retail.

Some of them have been available for more than one store opening or store anniversary for example. There are reports of others being available at Nottingham HQ.

Quote
but I have seen no statements from GW itself about the extent to which the models were limited.

I would hazard a guess that this is because it would very much depend upon how many stores asked for them. I don't think it was a case of sending two out to every store for example. I am aware that a discussion took place between my local store and GW for example.

Quote
If I were a store owner, I may indeed rather have had GW keep their 2 Catachans than have to disappoint a few dozen customers by explaining the situation and just how few minis were provided.
Fine, then you weren't a store that needed the helping hand. I was always told not to bite the hand that feeds you.

Quote from: FramFramson on May 03, 2020, 07:07:00 PM
1) Mcfonz, maybe your PARTICULAR store's clientele is comprised of entirely sensible, well-behaved, emotionally-balanced individuals,
2) but I assure you that when I was talking about store owners who find these sorts of things more headache than help, I am talking about real people, whom I know personally, who currently operate gaming stores.
3) Nor are these owners blaming their customers or saying their customers are horrible either, but when you have literally thousands of registered customers, never mind the unregistered ones (I realize not all stores are this big - I know owners of more "ordinary" stores too), and you get one or four boxes of ~whatever~, the revenue is basically insignificant.

1) There are two to three stores in Norwich. The one I call my FLGS is yes, comprised of entirely sensible and well-behaved people. Emotionally balanced is subjective. You can be emotionally unbalanced and still be well behaved people and sensible. Of the other two, one is really a toy store so people will only really pop in and out so a different type of customer, and the other is a direct competitor of the one I refer to. I know all three reasonably well and I haven't seen anyone spit their dummy out.
2) Suggesting they are people you know, are real and currently operating gaming stores suggests that you believe I am making what I have said up. I haven't.
3) In which case, the idea of these models isn't for them and I would recommend they don't take up their allocation and perhaps allow another store who is struggling more financially due to the current conditions to take advantage of them.

It was less than 24hrs from it being announced to stores getting the information and it filtering out across the internet. Considering that this wasn't likely to have been something that had a lot of planning behind it, GW has been shut for some of this period too, I think there also has to be a bit of a pinch of salt. This miniature wasn't going to be used in this way, they decided to use it this way in response to the pandemic. It was likely quite a spontaneous act, and one with the right intention and, quite rare for GW, recognition that their indy stockists tend to do a fantastic job where they can't in supporting the community through regular gaming venues etc.

But by all means, slag them off for not getting it spot on. Some people will just never be happy with GW no matter what.

Quote
Whether it's handled well or not, doesn't mean something that was intended to make folks feel good has instead made them feel bad.

It goes back to my point then doesn't it? Should anyone really be that upset? This reminds me of the recasters on facebook that bang on about there being nothing wrong with recasting OOP models because they should be able to own them - as if it is a right. Even with the normal event only miniatures there can be a limited stock depending upon the event they are being sold for.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Keith on May 05, 2020, 08:38:42 AM
Interesting thread.

GW have been on +80% furlough for a significant period now, across all departments and only just starting to get up to speed again. As you can imagine this has a significant impact across the entire organisation so I can forgive if the social media or marketing teams aren't 100% on point right now. The whole org is desperately under-resourced.

I'm confident this initiative comes from a good place and imagine the original (and most valuable) intention is to promote foot-fall towards their independent stockists. Clearly they aren't going to provide enough 'limited' figures worldwide to have a significant impact on struggling businesses. What can be achieved though is to encourage customers to reach out to indies and, in some cases, even remember they exist at this time. If I was running small store right now I'd certainly appreciate a public nod from GW during a period when clearly their own stores are going to be in a heavily compromised financial situation.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on May 05, 2020, 10:48:27 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on May 05, 2020, 12:58:53 AM
Fine, then you weren't a store that needed the helping hand. I was always told not to bite the hand that feeds you.
GW are not the hand that'd be feeding me, though; that would be my loyal customers, and I wouldn't enjoy being in a situation where I find myself having to disappoint more of those customers than I can make happy by supplying this mini.

I agree it's a nice gesture from GW, and understand completely that they couldn't do more (having only so many figures available), nor would I expect them to (they're not a charity, and any models they give away for free is great). All I'm saying that the situation would have been better for both the stores and the customers alike if the initial communication had simply included a line saying that there would literally only be a few per store (whatever the amount is, 1-4 seems to be the range I've read so far).
While the realistic financial benefits for stores simply selling them at the usual pricepoint are rather limited, it at least shows some actual appreciation from GW for the independent stores, while of course providing some good PR too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 05, 2020, 07:54:36 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on May 05, 2020, 12:58:53 AM
Fine, then you weren't a store that needed the helping hand. I was always told not to bite the hand that feeds you.

No one is suggesting that any store owner call up GW and tell them to piss off.

Quote
3) In which case, the idea of these models isn't for them and I would recommend they don't take up their allocation and perhaps allow another store who is struggling more financially due to the current conditions to take advantage of them.

The allotment for something like this will generally be issued in a standard way, and actually refusing your allotment involves extra work (if doing so is even possible - the minis may just be sent along with a given store's next GW shipment), and the miniatures wouldn't be automatically redirected to some store or other GW felt was struggling in particular anyway, because again, these are allocated in a very simple, standard way for expediency's sake.

I suppose a store in this position COULD, if they were feeling generous, redirect their stock after receiving to a local competitor which is doing worse than them, but then they'd be answering questions from their customers (who have seen the news online and are expecting you to have the model, however few) about why they have none and the "rival" store across town has six.

Even if you're feeling generous, it's still a headache.

Quote
But by all means, slag them off for not getting it spot on. Some people will just never be happy with GW no matter what.

I literally said I don't really blame GW. We all make mistakes sometimes, should we not learn from them?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 05, 2020, 09:28:06 PM
Cannot please everyone.

So. either do something and not please everyone. Do nothing and not please everyone.

Damned if you do and you know the rest.

I am not the happiest person with GW, but recent years has seen a lot of change with them, somethings will always be the same.

Maybe its a bit poorly interpreted, or poorly planned, but at least they made the gesture with something, that they did not have to do.

And you know, its getting talked about, so thanks guys, missed the target somewhat, but at least its something.

to be fair, not seen it, not bothered about not seeing it, and certainly not that fussed I have not got one, but hey well done and grats to you if you did, are and have one.

Anything GW related that's more interesting going on?

GW themed PPE?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 05, 2020, 09:52:47 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on May 05, 2020, 09:28:06 PM
GW themed PPE?

Probably best to avoid a Nurgle theme.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on May 06, 2020, 02:31:33 AM
If they choose to make more at a later time they always can.  I would probably buy one.  :)

+2 on not making Nurgle PPE.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 06, 2020, 10:02:59 PM
Quote from: Cubs on May 05, 2020, 09:52:47 PM
Probably best to avoid a Nurgle theme.

ah. that. one.

yeah not that one.

where did I put my hat and coat?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on May 07, 2020, 12:56:25 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on May 05, 2020, 09:28:06 PM
Cannot please everyone.

So. either do something and not please everyone. Do nothing and not please everyone.

Damned if you do and you know the rest.

<snip>

Anything GW related that's more interesting going on?

Agreed, and yes (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/04/additional-armaments-for-adeptus-mechanicusgw-homepage-post-1/).

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/_7Cm1f~O~G0rh4Y~.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/4-Yh9Ai-_q2V_N5b.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/3R~dZ1-x7-Hg~o1O.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/O8-yq4~WJr3-bW_7.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/qM_9U_9kU_b4_8Ik.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on May 07, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
Games Workshop's webstore is now using a virtual queue system to get into the store and view products. I must have lucked out on Friday and got in before it was implemented. Cant believe that many people need Nuln Oil that they have to have a queue system  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 07, 2020, 08:03:15 PM
Could just be that some dicknose is trying to DDoS the GW site. It happens. Happened to our Cuprum's site (Studio Siberia - love their work) for several months on end!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Exiledadmiral on May 07, 2020, 09:56:56 PM
I really like the admech cowboys, with them and the Genestealer Kelermorph there's some cracking Wild West in space minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on May 08, 2020, 08:43:12 AM
yes that's really more interesting.

Remember to sit the necessary virtual safe distance from your internet device whilst in the queue.

There are an awful lot of dicky people DDOS'ing around, and it only really takes one, to really impact a particular site.

If they decide they have reason, but it never stops, there's always prods and pushes going on to see if they can get in/do worse to your stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on May 08, 2020, 10:22:20 AM
GW stated last Friday when they were reopening the store they would have a virtual queue. Would have made more sense to have one of those last November when they released the Sisters limited box set. Also limiting purchases of certain paints and glue I think (they are the new toilet paper). Glad I picked up a bumper bottle of black wash last year from a discount store  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: RAD on May 17, 2020, 06:35:09 AM
Hmmm, they're not taking orders today. "Come back tomorrow" it says.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on May 18, 2020, 12:27:44 PM
Pretty nice, that Skitarii cav.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on May 23, 2020, 04:48:20 PM
Some new stuff from the previews today - A new edition of 40k with some neat sounding progression mechanics for games (combat patrol is back finally) , new necron warriors and units, new marines etc ...

Nothing astounding, but what was shown was quite nice.

the most revealing thing was the amount of racism on display in the chat box, all swiftly dealt with by the moderators but still, very much made me feel that what i thought was a minority in the community is in fact not so, which was deeply disappointing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 23, 2020, 04:57:48 PM
Link to the blog of the events pretty much as they're happening is here (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/23/the-big-warhammer-40000-previewgw-homepage-post-1/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 23, 2020, 07:43:56 PM
It seems like they're taking eighth ed and mostly keeping the good parts while actually fixing a lot of things people had complaints about?

Man, who knows how long it will last, but it sure is nice to see a major game company being run well for a change, instead of the seeming default state of constantly fighting their customers for imbecilic reasons (which is faaaarrrr from being purely an "Old GW" issue). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 23, 2020, 10:11:42 PM
Looks like you can keep the codices too which seems a nice step.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on May 23, 2020, 10:38:15 PM
Yeah, having watched the twitch stream, it looks like they have been heavily play-testing with a select group of players rather than just in house.

It would also appear that they have put some emphasis into narrative campaigns again - called Crusades, and into smaller games with Combat Patrols that can be played in 1hr.

This has my attention as whilst I like what they have been doing miniatures wise for the last few years, I haven't been sold on the rules for quite some time. 8th made terrain quite bland and boring. I'm on the committee of my local gaming club and when I was tasked with finding out what the 40kers were wanting from terrain it was actually quite limited.

Personally, I can also see this being "end times" for the traditional marines - or 1st born as they are now called.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 25, 2020, 08:29:53 PM
I don't think this has been shown here, apologies if it has.

Designing vehicles for the Imperium - link (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/25/adeptus-mechanicus-designing-the-reinforcementsgw-homepage-post-4/)

Channeling their inner Lexx o_o It's a shame, as there's almost a nice vehicle there  :(

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/f3D_K~f8uY~86x_I.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on May 26, 2020, 08:38:02 AM
I actually kind of like that aircraft. I like a lot of the Adeptus Mechanicus stuff even if I am not a fan of much of the current 40k stuff. The mechanical horses did not do much for me but I love the look of the Skitarii and Rust Stalkers. They are all too expensive for me from new though so I am always scouring EBay for a deal instead. I managed to get some Skitarii but no luck on Rust Stalkers yet.

As for 9th Edition... I have lost track of the editions to be honest. I played Rogue Trader back in the 80's. It is mindboggling to see how the game and universe has evolved over the years. Despite liking the aesthetics of some of the newer Adeptus Mechanicus, the only factions I find interesting are the Tyranids and Tau. The 9th Edition reveal trailer just reminds me how little I like the Imperium of Man and Necrons.

EDIT: Might make a decent ornithopter for a Dune setting game...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 26, 2020, 10:30:53 AM
I like its look but … it's very Steampunk and all that, very Dick Dastardly (from 'Wacky Races' and 'Catch the Pigeon' … no? just me?) … but is it 40K? We're talking about a level of technological achievement that transports forces to warzones using interstellar flight but then puts them in flappy bat machines?

But hey, 40K left me behind a long time ago, so who cares about the limits of my belief suspension.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on May 26, 2020, 01:25:08 PM
I am with Cubs on this one....does not really work in 40K for me, but I can certainly see it fitting in my own colony world but maybe not with those wings.
Hmmmm...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 26, 2020, 04:26:57 PM
Maybe a Tech Priest accidentally uploaded an ancient Wacky Races DVD to an STC machine...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on May 26, 2020, 06:32:21 PM
Perhaps that was an attempt to show the wings were retractable for storage on a carrier vessel and not flappy wings?  Still a bit weird for 40K.  I do dislike the fixed ball side guns sticking out parallel to the vehicle that they have on all their tanks. Seems rather unwieldy and prone to damage
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 26, 2020, 07:27:07 PM
I believe that was a spoiled a few weeks back in this thread, and the comments were that while it was an odd choice for 40k (and yet people seem to think the Skitarii cavalry are fine...), it was excellent conversion fodder or ripe for use for other things.

So, it's not a bad thing that the model exists.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on May 26, 2020, 08:01:42 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 26, 2020, 07:27:07 PM
So, it's not a bad thing that the model exists.

Absolutely.
I can certainly use it and save the wings for something else.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 26, 2020, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: Mason on May 26, 2020, 08:01:42 PM
Absolutely.
I can certainly use it and save the wings for something else.
 ;)
yeah using the wings and body for separate projects seems to be the general opionion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on May 27, 2020, 04:20:26 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 26, 2020, 07:27:07 PM
...and yet people seem to think the Skitarii cavalry are fine...

So, it's not a bad thing that the model exists.

Funny you should mention that.  I kind of like the cavalry  :)   They seem at least as useful as the weird flyers every one is getting.  I might get a few of those to go with my other Skitarii units I have collected to paint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on May 27, 2020, 05:44:57 PM
The cav are a bit too 'hell-bent-for-leather' in their poses for my taste, I suspect the poses will be limited. I could use a few that aren't full gallop. GW doesn't seem to do the open modular thing anymore.

I like the dorky looking flyer myself, might be nice for the Dune project. I just completed the Ramshackle Games ornithopter, so not sure I need one of them though :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on May 28, 2020, 12:40:12 AM
Ok. For dune the wing vibe might work.  I still dislike the side guns though.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on May 28, 2020, 01:01:54 AM
Quote from: syrinx0 on May 28, 2020, 12:40:12 AM
Ok. For dune the wing vibe might work.  I still dislike the side guns though.  :)

The side guns are weird, no doubt about that. I don't see this thing doing AC-130 style strafing runs :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on May 28, 2020, 08:03:06 AM
Huey gunships had side guns,as they turned away the gunners would open up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on May 28, 2020, 08:05:48 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on May 28, 2020, 01:01:54 AM
The side guns are weird, no doubt about that. I don't see this thing doing AC-130 style strafing runs :)
It's 40k it's not supposed to be normal 😂
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on May 28, 2020, 05:07:46 PM
Yeah, it's not like their tanks have designs that would work either...

Just in case some of you were not aware, a new edition of 40k is due out later in the year - and when I say later, typically they have released new editions at the end of the summer (UK summer). A new website with a rather nice trailer is up for the new edition of 40k. https://warhammer40000.com/

A better look at some of the miniatures that are going to be coming out, and some of those in the new starter box can be found on the community site here (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/24/warhammer-40000-more-models-revealedgw-homepage-post-3/).

Some of the ones I like:

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/U5vYo8Nx1C4c8Pq4.jpg)
Not entirely sold on the war cricket bat / chisel though, but it's nice otherwise. I think it's been confirmed to be called a Judiciar.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/jA9bD00xKF6cXn4G-500x402.jpg)
New Necron Lord miniature.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on May 28, 2020, 06:07:24 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on May 28, 2020, 05:07:46 PM
Yeah, it's not like their tanks have designs that would work either...
True.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on May 28, 2020, 06:22:05 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on May 28, 2020, 05:07:46 PM
Not entirely sold on the war cricket bat / chisel though, but it's nice otherwise. I think it's been confirmed to be called a Judiciar.

There's a few points of similarity with a character from the book 'Shadow of the Torturer'. The main character, Severian, is a member of the Torturer's Guild and ends up being an itinerant Executioner. Severian's sword looks like that and is named 'Terminus Est'. The series, "Book of the New Sun" is about as  'grimdark' Imperium as anything I've ever read, including actual 40k novels. I believe along with Dune and Nemesis the Warlock, the Book of the New Sun series had some major influence on 40K. Great books- very peculiar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on May 28, 2020, 06:37:29 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on May 28, 2020, 06:22:05 PM
There's a few points of similarity with a character from the book 'Shadow of the Torturer'. The main character, Severian, is a member of the Torturer's Guild and ends up being an itinerant Executioner. Severian's sword looks like that and is named 'Terminus Est'. The series, "Book of the New Sun" is about as  'grimdark' Imperium as anything I've ever read, including actual 40k novels. I believe along with Dune and Nemesis the Warlock, the Book of the New Sun series had some major influence on 40K. Great books- very peculiar.

But also very good 👍
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on May 28, 2020, 10:57:27 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on May 28, 2020, 06:22:05 PM
There's a few points of similarity with a character from the book 'Shadow of the Torturer'. The main character, Severian, is a member of the Torturer's Guild and ends up being an itinerant Executioner. Severian's sword looks like that and is named 'Terminus Est'. The series, "Book of the New Sun" is about as  'grimdark' Imperium as anything I've ever read, including actual 40k novels. I believe along with Dune and Nemesis the Warlock, the Book of the New Sun series had some major influence on 40K. Great books- very peculiar.

IIRC an executioner's sword is also hollow, and partially filled with mercury, to shift its point of gravity when put to use.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on May 28, 2020, 11:19:37 PM
Yes, there's definitely a nod to Gene Wolfe in that. One of my favourite bits of The Book of the New Sun is that chilling scene with the alzabo waiting for the firelight to die and Severian fretting that the lack of a point on Terminus Est means that he can't defend himself from the beast without room to swing the sword.

With this GW figure and the Annihilation film's nod to the alzabo, there's been quite a bit of Wolfeian influence about recently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on May 29, 2020, 06:47:27 AM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on May 28, 2020, 11:19:37 PM
With this GW figure and the Annihilation film's nod to the alzabo, there's been quite a bit of Wolfeian influence about recently.

Heck yes, when a friend had me watch Annihilation I went full-on nerd about the similarity to the alzabo :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 29, 2020, 12:34:25 PM
Necron Lord looks way to busy. If I were to buy it I'd chop off one of those arms to improve it (But it will be out of my price range and I don't have any inclination to get a 40k army at the moment)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dentatus on May 30, 2020, 02:16:31 AM
'Severian' was my first thought the instant I saw that Primaris Executioner fig. I'll pick one up for that reason alone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on May 30, 2020, 04:48:55 PM
The sword made me think of historic executioners blades, the german Richtschwert in particular.
https://historisches-museum-frankfurt.de/de/node/33927?language=en (https://historisches-museum-frankfurt.de/de/node/33927?language=en)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on June 04, 2020, 01:52:27 PM
I have to say, after not really buying into 40k as a rule system now for over 15 years - I tried a few games of 8th but disliked it (more on that in a mo) - what I am reading on the changes and other aspects of 9th I am starting to get really tempted by it.

(The more in a mo bit) I tried 8th, but I tried it with Nids, and the few games I played I was watching my army do ALL of the running, which you expect to a degree admittedly. But it was just dead boring. Static marine gun line. Run, die, run, die. Then when a unit finally made contact with the enemy, overwatch. By the time actual combat was reached I had so few models left that they were incredibly unlikely to win. If they managed to survive, marines just backed off an inch and blasted them away. It was dull, boring and repetitive. Overwatch was still overpowered - especially with any flame weapons. D6 auto hits with a couple of them per unit means you should be pinging a good 7 hits just in overwatch. Against most basic troopers with armour of 6+, that's insta death on 3+/4+.

They are changing combat and overwatch to reward units that actually make it. We haven't been told exactly how yet but I do wonder if a return to 2nd ed style overwatch will work, where you have to sacrifice something to get it. Either way, the way it is now, combat armies are at a real disadvantage so I am happy to see them try and rectify that for my Tyranids.

More things they have said they are changing here (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/01/new-40k-the-game-you-love-but-bettergw-homepage-post-1/) and here (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/03/warhammer-40000-matched-play-points-and-an-appgw-homepage-post-1/)

Also Crusade (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/02/join-the-crusadegw-homepage-post-1/) - the narrative campaign part of the game... It's already got the interest of some of my club who haven't touched a GW game in a long while.

I can honestly see people possibly tempted to play this with older miniatures. There seems to be a nice way of leveling up your models and really building a small characterful force about it. I wonder if it'll be the end of Kill Team? (I didn't like kill team, I felt it scaled badly as they didn't do much but shrink the main game, d6 auto hits on single targets instead of units...).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Wirelizard on June 05, 2020, 07:43:22 PM
You charged a gun line with melee troops and expected some other result than "shot to pieces"?

Regardless of lore or background or whatever, that's exactly what I'd expect to see happen in any ruleset if you tried something as brain-dead as charging an unsuppressed gun line with melee troops, so the fact that 40k actually causes that to happen seems like a point in it's favour, not against.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on June 05, 2020, 07:58:29 PM
In a setting with more swords and spears than guns, where there are numerous units designed purely for melee, it is incomparable to real world charging into un-suppressed gunlines. Ever hear of bug swarms in sci fi?

Besides, if we are going to start praising 40k for adhering to expected real world outcomes, well, that will fall apart quickly. There isn't such a thing as suppression in 40k! The fact is 8th made many melee based armies (many of which were thematic) unviable. Allowing marines to shuffle out of melee and fire pretty much wrecks close combat capabilities and strategies that worked fine in prior editions, and there is nothing wrong with disliking that.

Might also be worth remembering that it's very easy to come across as rude in text form.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on June 05, 2020, 09:02:14 PM
Thanks Gibby.

Unqualified responses are the best aren't they!  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 05, 2020, 10:22:45 PM
Tyranids was one of the armies I kind of almost got close to maybe collecting … back in the day. I really liked the idea of them (too much time watching 'Starship Troopers' and 'Aliens') and the idea of overwhelming defenders with hordes and hordes of nasty beasties really appealed. But then I was reading battle reports and 'official' advice re:tactics and it just didn't seem right that you had to equip them with missile weapons (what the hell is that about?) or sacrifice half your army before contact, then probably get the crap beaten out of you anyway. When all the other side has to do is hunker down in close support and keep the finger on the trigger, where's the fun for anyone?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 05, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
I've not played in a good long time (except a bit of kill team). I have an old school nid army, mostly all metal 1st iteration of hormagaunts which I think are still the best. Sacrificing half the army doesn't seem like to bad a drawback, you're expecting to lose a lot as you send them in which is part of the fun, are you going to have enough to destroy them when you reach. But if these new rules effectively squash even that then it doesn't seem pointless, its especially bad when you have shooting units that can still easily beat the 'nids in hand to hand like marines vs gaunts nowadays (IIRC). Saying that. I love the big nid usints like the Lictors and Carnifexes. Don't know how they match up but I have an all lictor kill team (which got destroyed in killteam indoor setting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on June 06, 2020, 08:39:58 AM
Well I remember Rhino-rush and other such madness from 3rd edition and earlier lol where the argument was that the game was skewed to-much to melee!

Oh well how the hamster wheel turns. I am not going for V9, didn`t like V8 overmuch once the rules bloat started. Sticking with Rogue Trader for skirmishes and 3rd edition for bigger battles (but only using army lists from the rule book). Adding alternate activation though.

Have fun with your chosen set everyone.

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 07, 2020, 06:12:23 AM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on June 06, 2020, 08:39:58 AM
Well I remember Rhino-rush and other such madness from 3rd edition and earlier lol where the argument was that the game was skewed to-much to melee!

That brings back some bad memories  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on June 07, 2020, 08:29:18 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on June 07, 2020, 06:12:23 AM
That brings back some bad memories  lol

Indeed ;) however, whilst I started playing with Rogue Trader in 88 or 89? I do have a soft spot for 3rd edition as that is probably the version I played the most games with and probably ever will. It`s not a bad set of rules as long as extra cheddar is not added to it. I like the simplicity of it, especially the core rules before the bloat.

Of course everyone has their favourites and least favourites and who am I to argue.

Right I`m off to board my RH1NO, see ya lol

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on June 12, 2020, 11:55:24 AM
Ello, quick question but is anyone else having to prove they're human every time they go on a GW website? Something that's started for me yesterday.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 12, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
It's letting me browse the main site, where is your humanity being questioned  ???

I did have to clear its cookies recently to get it to show me anything at all on the site
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on June 12, 2020, 03:51:29 PM
Quote from: voltan on June 12, 2020, 11:55:24 AM
Ello, quick question but is anyone else having to prove they're human every time they go on a GW website? Something that's started for me yesterday.

Wasn't there something in 40k along the lines of "Suffer not the alien to live?" Maybe they're training their spam filter on that and it got over-zealous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on June 12, 2020, 06:39:17 PM
Quote from: zemjw on June 12, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
It's letting me browse the main site, where is your humanity being questioned  ???

I did have to clear its cookies recently to get it to show me anything at all on the site

The warhammer community site, but I also got it on their main site when I went to check. I've done all the usual things to try and clear it, it'll probably stop now I've asked.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 12, 2020, 09:30:36 PM
Quote from: Westfalia Chris on June 12, 2020, 03:51:29 PM
Wasn't there something in 40k along the lines of "Suffer not the alien to live?" Maybe they're training their spam filter on that and it got over-zealous.

 lol lol

I was always under the impression that they would take anyone's money.
Xenos or not....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 13, 2020, 11:05:32 AM
Quote from: Mason on June 12, 2020, 09:30:36 PM
lol lol

I was always under the impression that they would take anyone's money.
Xenos or not....
Judging by article I seen this morning you could be right, they have made that much money during lockdown they are going to repay the government back what they have borrowed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: scatterbrains on June 13, 2020, 11:11:20 AM
Quote from: voltan on June 12, 2020, 11:55:24 AM
Ello, quick question but is anyone else having to prove they're human every time they go on a GW website? Something that's started for me yesterday.

I've been getting it a lot, including on lead adventure forum. But I connect on tablet or phone from China and sometimes through a VPN in Hongkong so I wasn't surprised.

I'm no longer sure what an umbrella really looks like.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on June 13, 2020, 11:19:19 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on June 13, 2020, 11:05:32 AM
Judging by article I seen this morning you could be right, they have made that much money during lockdown they are going to repay the government back what they have borrowed.

 lol lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on June 13, 2020, 11:25:01 AM
Quote from: zemjw on June 12, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
It's letting me browse the main site, where is your humanity being questioned  ???

I did have to clear its cookies recently to get it to show me anything at all on the site

Are you using an apple device? I've seen alot of people saying the same thing when using IOS but so for no windows/android issues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on June 13, 2020, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: scatterbrains on June 13, 2020, 11:11:20 AM
I've been getting it a lot, including on lead adventure forum. But I connect on tablet or phone from China and sometimes through a VPN in Hongkong so I wasn't surprised.

I'm no longer sure what an umbrella really looks like.

I was getting boats, but as predicted now I've questioned it, my humanity has been reinstated.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 13, 2020, 05:27:56 PM
I'm speechless on this reveal:

(https://scontent.fict1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104413297_2660866790900610_8102561448221729529_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=E6aaiOjETfoAX_acFge&_nc_ht=scontent.fict1-1.fna&oh=c1bdf3b156235086fe1bd8f977c204ea&oe=5F0C73ED)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 13, 2020, 05:31:24 PM
Okay fair play, that rocks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Historiker on June 13, 2020, 06:16:04 PM
The 40K Reddit is suddenly replete with MarioKart jokes. I now can see why.

Not to criticize anyone who likes it, as tastes can not be argued about and I am happy when people are happy, but in my view that is one very strange vehicle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on June 13, 2020, 06:29:38 PM
You beat me to it lol

I must admit to wondering what military vehicles provided the inspiration? I suspect it's
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 13, 2020, 06:53:46 PM
Take the marines an gun turret off, make good 40k utility vehicle for ships hangers or a mine,
In fact leave gun on an use it in stealer cult with the bikes flanking it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on June 13, 2020, 07:04:01 PM
Quote from: tin shed gamer on June 13, 2020, 06:29:38 PM
I must admit to wondering what military vehicles provided the inspiration?

Lunar rover + Toyota Hilux?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on June 13, 2020, 08:02:24 PM
40k's tone needs to return 100% to the Rogue Trader era's 2000AD-inspired colourful ultra-satire tone. The designers are nailing that, but within a setting that now takes itself seriously.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on June 13, 2020, 09:13:51 PM
M`mm ???

I like this a whole lot less than the Genestealer cult ATV, that would have been so much better :-*,oh well never-mind lol

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on June 13, 2020, 09:15:15 PM
Still it goes with the bikes (old and new) doesn`t it?

"In the far future, there is no ground clearance!" lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 13, 2020, 09:51:27 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on June 13, 2020, 09:15:15 PM
Still it goes with the bikes (old and new) doesn`t it?

"In the far future, there is no ground clearance!" lol
Potholes are against the emporers will 😂
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on June 14, 2020, 07:40:13 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on June 13, 2020, 09:51:27 PM
Potholes are against the emporers will 😂

Indeed Sir! :D, potholes are the work of Chaos,literally lol. We will not go down into Chaos.

Still Nurgle is in ascendancy all around the globe today isn't he? And Khorne as well I fear :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on June 14, 2020, 07:47:51 AM
With bigger wheels it might be better. Strangely Forgeworld have some very nice,believable ATVs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on June 14, 2020, 09:15:41 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on June 13, 2020, 05:27:56 PM
I'm speechless on this reveal:

(https://scontent.fict1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/104413297_2660866790900610_8102561448221729529_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=E6aaiOjETfoAX_acFge&_nc_ht=scontent.fict1-1.fna&oh=c1bdf3b156235086fe1bd8f977c204ea&oe=5F0C73ED)
Okay on a table top, as long as there is not much terrain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 14, 2020, 09:26:56 PM
What annoys me about that is how small the wheels are (or how low the ground clearance is, if you prefer). 

That's not an ATV, it's a go-kart!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Calimero on June 14, 2020, 09:31:33 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on June 14, 2020, 09:26:56 PM
What annoys me about that is how small the wheels are (or how low the ground clearance is, if you prefer). 

That's not an ATV, it's a go-kart!

...Maybe if was issued to the Highway patrol branch of the Ultramarines? ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on June 15, 2020, 01:49:59 AM
I like the vehicle but it should be an Arbites or IG local defense force.  It certainly doesn't seem likely to handle dropping in or going off road.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on June 15, 2020, 06:59:43 AM
I have to agree it looks more like a STV (some terain vehicle)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 15, 2020, 08:06:03 PM
Quote from: YPU on June 15, 2020, 06:59:43 AM
I have to agree it looks more like a STV (some terain vehicle)
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fastolfrus on June 15, 2020, 08:10:16 PM
Maybe it's intended for all golf-course terrain?
So it's actually an AGCTV.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 16, 2020, 08:14:16 PM
"BRING ME MY DRIVER!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Historiker on June 16, 2020, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on June 16, 2020, 08:14:16 PM
"BRING ME MY DRIVER!"

Hilarious  lol !
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on June 16, 2020, 11:42:31 PM
They have flying marines with heavy weapons. Why would they need an ATV?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Johnno on June 17, 2020, 01:28:42 AM
Some  lol lol lol responses there.

There are aspects of that "ATV" I quite like. But overall something looks off. Maybe the wheels and ground clearance or those side panels...

Anyone else thinking of meshing Gaslands and Mario Kart using them?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on June 17, 2020, 04:38:05 AM
Swap the Marines for some Copplestone gang guys, enclose the driver a bit and this vehicle might just work for Gaslands.  Tad more expensive than your normal Hotwheels build though.   lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on June 17, 2020, 06:11:59 PM
This might cause a bit of a ripple in the world of 40k gaming. (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/17/overwatch-overhaulgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-2/)

Quote
The first and biggest change is that Overwatch has shifted from a standard reaction to a Core Stratagem, costing 1 Command point to perform. As Stratagems can only be used once per phase, you’ll have to think long and hard about your odds of success. For example, Aggressors armed with flamestorm gauntlets are sure to roast some of the attackers, whilst a half-strength Astra Militarum squad may struggle to cause enough damage to warrant the cost. 

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/z5U3Igj9JBg9w9Lb.jpg)

So it's essentially limited to a once per phase stratagem that costs 1cp. I think this actually makes for a nice tactical option, there are some other things that work in combination with it eg;

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/f8SC2z6hFVl8bA5o.jpg)

So I think this may mean people look more closely at unit composition and their role on the battlefield. Flamers and other auto hitting weapons will now favour units designed to take and hold objectives or to hold positions such as flanks.

They have dealt with the one real issue I had with 8th which means this may be the first edition of 40k in about 15 years that I'll actually play more than two games of. It certainly does look like they are trying to encourage games to involve more movement and less static gunlining.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on June 22, 2020, 09:27:01 AM
I sure feel sorry for THAT guy...  :o

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/9YtB6iYz4P4lZf51.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: scatterbrains on June 22, 2020, 03:55:36 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on June 22, 2020, 09:27:01 AM
I sure feel sorry for THAT guy...  :o

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/9YtB6iYz4P4lZf51.jpg)

Lol in 2020 i would be grateful for being that guy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 22, 2020, 07:11:40 PM
Quote from: scatterbrains on June 22, 2020, 03:55:36 PM
Lol in 2020 i would be grateful for being that guy.

Don't want to be accused of politics, so all I'll say is that my favourite quip has been "So which page of the Book of Revelations are we going get today?"

(it's even a 19th year for locusts!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 23, 2020, 12:14:20 PM
Yeah, will get me a small force of those new Necrons.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 24, 2020, 05:26:30 AM
I do like the necrons. I may also get a new force.
That is a nice model although I don't particularly like scenic elements moving with the model. That guy will be having the flesh ton off him for the entire game!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: scatterbrains on June 24, 2020, 09:48:41 AM
Quote from: beefcake on June 24, 2020, 05:26:30 AM
That is a nice model although I don't particularly like scenic elements moving with the model. That guy will be having the flesh ton off him for the entire game!

+1 great for diorama but sorta unnecessary for a gaming peice. There's definitely a sweetspot somewhere between that and a chess pawn.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on June 24, 2020, 04:25:03 PM
I agree Scatterbrains... the trick is finding it. Quite a challenge.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 27, 2020, 09:58:22 PM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ordo-Xenos-Lord-Inquisitor-Kyria-Draxus-2020
Ooh I like this.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 28, 2020, 05:07:37 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on June 27, 2020, 09:58:22 PM
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ordo-Xenos-Lord-Inquisitor-Kyria-Draxus-2020
Ooh I like this.

Yeah me too. Love the idea behind it, and also love the non-cheesecake element (no stupid boobplate, etc.). Not sold on the wyvern thingy, but a little converting can solve that issue!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on June 28, 2020, 06:07:19 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on June 28, 2020, 05:07:37 PM
Yeah me too. Love the idea behind it, and also love the non-cheesecake element (no stupid boobplate, etc.). Not sold on the wyvern thingy, but a little converting can solve that issue!
Well it's not metal so easy to not add it, only thing I don't like is the £20 price tag  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on June 29, 2020, 11:18:25 AM
Quote from: syrinx0 on June 17, 2020, 04:38:05 AM
Swap the Marines for some Copplestone gang guys, enclose the driver a bit and this vehicle might just work for Gaslands.  Tad more expensive than your normal Hotwheels build though.   lol

And about four times the size. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 05, 2020, 05:48:24 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on June 28, 2020, 06:07:19 PM
Well it's not metal so easy to not add it, only thing I don't like is the £20 price tag  lol
It's $35, so £1=$1.75, :o instead ~$25 and this excludes State Sales Taxes...

I'd like to think it would've been £10-£15 had it been metal, as it's not cheap to produce characters in plastic, but it's GW, so anything goes and people will still buy it and rave about!

GW even has unofficial "official" forums for AoS...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 05, 2020, 08:18:50 PM
It seems like people are really, really liking the 9th ed rules?

I don't know what the average sentiment is on this board, but when the subject is mentioned by wargamers in other locations online, the comments seems to be overwhelmingly positive. The phrase "this is the best set of rules GW has ever published for 40k" is not uncommon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on July 05, 2020, 09:57:22 PM
I have not played in quite a few years but the 40K players who occasionally game with my group seem to like some of the changes.   Maybe I'll blow the dust off my IG boxes and give it a try whenever our groups get together again.

One moan I heard was a new painted army bonus that in essence will require you to paint all of your forces to be competitive.  If true, it is an interesting way to discourage primer armies while promoting the contrast paint method.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 05, 2020, 10:16:19 PM
Quote from: syrinx0 on July 05, 2020, 09:57:22 PM
I have not played in quite a few years but the 40K players who occasionally game with my group seem to like some of the changes.   Maybe I'll blow the dust off my IG boxes and give it a try whenever our groups get together again.

One moan I heard was a new painted army bonus that in essence will require you to paint all of your forces to be competitive.  If true, it is an interesting way to discourage primer armies while promoting the contrast paint method.

I saw some moaning about that - Personally I think it's a great rule - If you're at a tournament you haven't just dropped in, you planned to go, so you had time to paint your minis. If it's a rule that gets enforced in bigger events it may kill grey horde tournament lists once and for all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on July 05, 2020, 10:41:14 PM
I thought most big tournaments required painted forces anyway, so this would probably only effect  local gaming.  I'm not bothered by it as diverse painted armies with colorful terrain filled table were what made it fun for me (and why I drifted off into historical gaming).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 06, 2020, 12:13:14 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 05, 2020, 08:18:50 PM
The phrase "this is the best set of rules GW has ever published for 40k" is not uncommon.

Wildly low bar
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 10, 2020, 03:18:05 PM
I quite liked the simpler approach of 8th edition  when it came out, but the rules bloat that followed soured me on it.

That said...Im going to get the new box set, they do represent decent value for GW products and I like a lot of the models in the box. I've got all the Primaris from the 8th ed box and the ones in this one I cam add to that to make a more varied army. The Necrons I may sell. I've got a load of the original metal fugly ones that I love dearly and I cant see them matching!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 10, 2020, 08:36:47 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on July 06, 2020, 12:13:14 AM
Wildly low bar

Considering the community tends to lean to "old version was better, stop ruining the game!" on most topics, its still a surprising result.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 11, 2020, 11:15:57 AM
Preorders went up at 10am, it looks like many third party stores ran out of their allocation within a number of minutes! Im not sure if the numbers were constrained by production/distribution issues or artificially limited- I know that's a tactic GW have used in the past.

I ended up ordering a box. I do like the look of the models, whether I end  playing much 9th edition 40k remains to be seen. I probably played about a dozen games of 8th over its run.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 11, 2020, 03:30:16 PM
Quote from: YPU on July 10, 2020, 08:36:47 PM
Considering the community tends to lean to "old version was better, stop ruining the game!" on most topics, its still a surprising result.

From that perspective it is probably unique. I don't think many people really missed seventh edition 40K though.

I think they are doing a very good job of servicing their current fanbase. From reading the rules and looking at the new releases I don't think that they will be making a lot of new converts though. If you didn't like 8th edition then I suspect that you won't like 9th though as it still continues the habit of adding special rules to everything on the table.

Good on GW though for at least giving their fans more of what they want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on July 11, 2020, 03:35:30 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on July 11, 2020, 11:15:57 AM
Preorders went up at 10am, it looks like many third party stores ran out of their allocation within a number of minutes! Im not sure if the numbers were constrained by production/distribution issues or artificially limited- I know that's a tactic GW have used in the past.

Allocations depend on how much of the GW range you carry. Including things like paint. My FLGS is enormous and carries a huge range of product so they have a healthy number of preorders available.

I suspect that there are two factors at play. Covid is still restricting GW's manufacturing capability and the company has also not been in the habit of producing a lot of stock for anything other than core products. I also recall them saying early on that this Indomitus box was going to be a limited print run so the lack of pre-orders shouldn't be a surprise.

I, once again, suspect that the company is also hesitant to do a big release at the monent given the unknown nature of the extent of impact that Covid 19 has had on the hobby.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 12, 2020, 09:36:17 AM
You've probably got a point there. It does seem, however, that GW moved the goalposts a little for independent sellers at the last minute, which doesn't appear to have helped matters. There were also issues such as Goblin gaming's online shopping system kept selling after they had already reached their limit (although to their credit I think they've dealt with that promptly and with transparency,  its just a shame)

The demand is impressive though, there seems like a big interest in this release, more so that last time around.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 12, 2020, 11:56:25 AM
I remember my time working in a flgs, and big GW releases were always a strain. Demand always outstripped supply, because GW can't be certain of allocations until a couple of days prior to delivery, mostly due to the fact that they are still producing copies of everything right up to the wire. I remember the horus heresy boxed sets were a painful one, we were told we'd be getting something like 200 copies but had about 600 people put themselves down for pre order, then on the day we got about 100 extra copies (you buy them by request, so gw charges you for as many as they can provide within your request) and they all sold out within a day just from walk in customers.

Gw to their credit are actually quite good to deal with, and have a very dedicated stockist support system, they just struggle to keep up with demand for big releases, which has the knock on impact of slowing production on less desirable kits that get bumped off the supply line to make more space for new stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 24, 2020, 07:40:25 PM
This is the good stuff, right here:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Edp0sINWkAAo4kF.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 24, 2020, 07:49:41 PM
That's fantastic, such fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on July 25, 2020, 03:23:27 AM
That is magnificent! What a fun Trojan ork concept and well executed.   The "not ork" sign really sells it. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 25, 2020, 07:22:43 AM
Quote from: syrinx0 on July 25, 2020, 03:23:27 AM
That is magnificent! What a fun Trojan ork concept and well executed.   The "not ork" sign really sells it. lol

Indeed it is, a ork Testudo and Trojan Bunny all in one, excellent.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 25, 2020, 07:27:08 AM
Quote from: syrinx0 on July 25, 2020, 03:23:27 AM
That is magnificent! What a fun Trojan ork concept and well executed.   The "not ork" sign really sells it. lol
I like the "Spesh Marines" part myself.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on July 26, 2020, 07:42:52 PM
It's been a while that I clicked on this thread, but now I'm so glad I did.
 lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on July 27, 2020, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: The Voivod on July 26, 2020, 07:42:52 PM
It's been a while that I clicked on this thread, but now I'm so glad I did.
 lol lol

Me too.
That Orky thing is genius!
 8) 8)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on July 29, 2020, 10:11:23 AM
From today’s edition of The Times...


‘The value of Games Workshop rose above £3 billion for the first time yesterday after the maker and seller of fantasy miniature soldiers unveiled a record set of results.

Games Workshop said that it had lost six weeks of sales and profits as a result of the closure of its stores — yet despite the disruption from lockdown it still increased sales by 5 per cent to £269.7 million for the year to the end of May, while pre-tax profits rose by 9 per cent to £89.4 million, beating its own forecasts.

Shares in Games Workshop leapt by 920p, or 10.9 per cent, to £93.75 last night, valuing the business at £3.06 billion.

The maker of Warhammer toy soldiers is now valued at almost three times the worth of Dixons Carphone and 50 per cent more than Marks & Spencer’.

There’s plenty more on this (behind a paywall alas)

Games Workshop eh? A business worth £3bn...  ::)

I hope all those corporate investors and wealth management fund managers are suitably grateful to you loyal GW customers lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Citizen Sade on July 29, 2020, 10:42:20 AM
There was a very similar article in The Sunday Times on July 5th when the shares were worth a mere £83.35. Crazy, isn’t it? Makes me wish I’d kept hold of the shares that I sold after the release of The Return of the King film.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 29, 2020, 02:12:04 PM
Please stop reminding me of how stupid I was not to buy shares when i had the chance...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on August 07, 2020, 12:09:31 PM
The new bloodbowl team look like they'll be great parts for =][= figures...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fE2wk-ijXA
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on August 07, 2020, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: Lawful Evil on August 07, 2020, 12:09:31 PM
The new bloodbowl team look like they'll be great parts for =][= figures...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fE2wk-ijXA

Seems like a lost opportunity to not have new teams in the set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 07, 2020, 04:25:55 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on August 07, 2020, 04:14:23 PM
Seems like a lost opportunity to not have new teams in the set.
Pretty sure they are new teams. ;) Another set of humans and orcs though.

New Black Orcs look pretty fun too, and the revised Varag Ghoul-Chewer certainly looks proppa mean:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/06/waaagh-ere-come-da-black-orcs/

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/dfhLtO2gQRKR22h2.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on August 07, 2020, 06:04:54 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 07, 2020, 04:25:55 PM
Pretty sure they are new teams. ;) Another set of humans and orcs though.


Thats what I mean. Variant Humans and Orcs instead of Chaos Dwarves or Necro for example.

I didn't buy the initial box set because I don't care about those teams so I've got no interest in this new one.

I get why they did Humans and Orcs for the first set. They are decent intro teams but surely this isn't an intro box anymore
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 07, 2020, 07:21:54 PM
Starter boxes are always intro boxes.

They may not be for the experienced players but they are for anyone else that picks it up for the first time. I've played bloodbowl all of twice in my life. If I was to get into it properly, I would need to get the starter set.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on August 07, 2020, 08:27:42 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on August 07, 2020, 04:25:55 PM
New Black Orcs look pretty fun too, and the revised Varag Ghoul-Chewer certainly looks proppa mean:

I hope that it is easy to remove that corpse from his shoulder. Looks pretty sweet aside from that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on August 08, 2020, 10:25:08 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on August 07, 2020, 08:27:42 PM
I hope that it is easy to remove that corpse from his shoulder. Looks pretty sweet aside from that.
Certainly looks like it would be a largely separate piece, and the model would indeed look better without. It's plastic anyway, so fairly straightforward to carve bits off here and there, and the good thing with Orcy things is that you don't even have to tidy it up too much afterwards!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 08, 2020, 12:09:09 PM
Always found it a little funny that Bloodbowl has Varag Ghoul Chewer and the old WFB had fluff about Vorag the Ghoul King (I was so keen to make a ghoul army back then)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 13, 2020, 09:12:06 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/11/necromunda-home-sweet-home/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/11/necromunda-home-sweet-home/)

Some new Necromunda terrain incoming, looks useful for post apocalypse type games, certainly a shortage of skulls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on August 14, 2020, 06:52:34 AM
I like some of the terrain gw do but these kinda remind me of kiddies playsets
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on August 14, 2020, 07:23:36 AM
Something without skulls? Something that could be more general purpose, multigame terrain? Nice!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 14, 2020, 10:26:19 AM
Quote from: majorsmith on August 14, 2020, 06:52:34 AM
I like some of the terrain gw do but these kinda remind me of kiddies playsets

Yeah building out of the box following the instructions you kind of get unwieldy play set vibe, but Im sure many of the skilled modellers here can do well with them.


In unrelated news, GW is releasing another wave of micro board games to select retailers (and from the sounds of it select countries).

  https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-board-games-coming-soon/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-board-games-coming-soon/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on August 14, 2020, 11:05:54 AM
 The Game shops in the UK will be stocking the new micro games Phil.They have them up on the store along with release date.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 14, 2020, 11:26:24 AM
That gang stronghold doesn't look too bad.

It's a shame the small boxed sets aren't more widely available beyond overpriced ebay sales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 14, 2020, 11:41:26 AM
Quote from: manic _miner on August 14, 2020, 11:05:54 AM
The Game shops in the UK will be stocking the new micro games Phil.They have them up on the store along with release date.

Where?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 16, 2020, 01:57:24 PM
I am surprised to see the new board games. GW's been there before (mid-90s, with lots of counters rather than miniatures tho) and I had the strong impression it didn't work for them then. I wonder what they think will be different this time around?

Or maybe they're riding such a high just now they feel they can try it out and if it fails, well, they can absorb the hit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on August 16, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
Not available in the Netherlands, unfortunately. Some chains in Germany will stock them. They're a nice addition for the models.
@BP: GW is more "hot" now than it's ever been before. They even had to introduce their own pre-order system in Warhammer shops ( formerly known as Games Workshop store ) because some boxed scenario sets had become sold out within the hour... It's ridiculous, these days. Buy a box, split the contents and sell it for double on internet. Buy a "limited" boxes set, like Sisters of Battles of Indomitus and you can sell it on for double or triple the original price ( although GW did a second run on Indomitus, because of the flak they got on their release policy... ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 17, 2020, 08:11:35 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on August 16, 2020, 01:57:24 PM
I am surprised to see the new board games. GW's been there before (mid-90s, with lots of counters rather than miniatures tho) and I had the strong impression it didn't work for them then. I wonder what they think will be different this time around?

Or maybe they're riding such a high just now they feel they can try it out and if it fails, well, they can absorb the hit.

Tabletop gaming as a whole is booming, hugely, and has been for quite some time now. Boardgames especially. Back in the mid '90's, less so.

Also, Underworlds could be said to be a boardgame and Warhammer Quest isn't far from it. It's arguably the first time since they stopped some of the licensing out too. A lot of the licensed games did well. So it made sense they made the decision to bring it back in house.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on August 17, 2020, 08:15:17 AM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on August 16, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
Not available in the Netherlands, unfortunately. Some chains in Germany will stock them. They're a nice addition for the models.
@BP: GW is more "hot" now than it's ever been before. They even had to introduce their own pre-order system in Warhammer shops ( formerly known as Games Workshop store ) because some boxed scenario sets had become sold out within the hour... It's ridiculous, these days. Buy a box, split the contents and sell it for double on internet. Buy a "limited" boxes set, like Sisters of Battles of Indomitus and you can sell it on for double or triple the original price ( although GW did a second run on Indomitus, because of the flak they got on their release policy... ).

GW have done special edition launch sets a fair bit in the past. Nothing new there really. The mark up on stuff depends where you look. I've seen more people than not being very fair when splitting their sets. From as little as £40 for one of the faction halves.

There will always be scalpers and their prices will always be dependent on what some fools are willing to pay over the odds for.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on August 17, 2020, 01:50:23 PM
I picked up a copy of the first space marine adventures when it was on sale a couple of months ago. it's a fun little game, with a bit of tinkering it could make a very nice dungeoncrawler, and it's simple enough that you can homebrew quite a bit for it.

I'm interested in the age of sigmar dungeon crawler lost patrol reskin thing, Could be fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on August 17, 2020, 09:44:11 PM
I had my first game of 9th edition 40k the other day, also my first game on Tabletop Simulator, which was novel but surprisingly good and something ill.do a lot more of.

We played a game using the Crusade rules, the very small table took some getting used to but it was rather fun (albeit in a 40k way). Me and some friends are doing a small Crusade campaign on TTS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 18, 2020, 10:37:17 AM
Cool. I've looked at TTS but thought "no thanks" my brother got it recently so am now wondering if it is any good. I take it you can do online PVP. Also do you need to pay extra for games like 40K?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on August 18, 2020, 02:26:13 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 18, 2020, 10:37:17 AM
Cool. I've looked at TTS but thought "no thanks" my brother got it recently so am now wondering if it is any good. I take it you can do online PVP. Also do you need to pay extra for games like 40K?

Ive always been the same tbh. Tabletop gaming should be played on a tabletop...but actually I was quite impressed. You can do PvP, solo stuff, basically you create a room which is password controlled and so you can limit entry to people you know. We use a Discord voice channel for chat. Its basically a big sandbox with tools for manipulating the assets you load in. So is capable of playing any sort of game ypu can physically play on a tabletop.

Most stuff is just accessible from the workshops so it's all free to download. The table, models, tokens etc I just downloaded and is available for anyone to use, there is a Battlescribe TTS application that helps create and populate lists too which is handy for stuff like 40k.

Ive had a look at other stuff and I noticed mods for Bolt Action, Saga, Sharp Practice, Frostgrave etc. There is even some official mods (Relicblade  being a notable one) which dont have the legal question marks over them!

Ive got friends who play a lot of board games and RPGs using TTS, for the relatively low price on steam its pretty impressive tbh. Particularly at the moment!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 22, 2020, 12:22:27 AM
I'm liking the look of the new Slave Ogryn gang for Necromunda. Great for a variety of things, but looks like a lot of duplicate pieces.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Necromunda-Slave-Ogryn-Gang-2020
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on August 22, 2020, 04:51:46 AM
Quote from: beefcake on August 22, 2020, 12:22:27 AM
I'm liking the look of the new Slave Ogryn gang for Necromunda. Great for a variety of things, but looks like a lot of duplicate pieces.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Necromunda-Slave-Ogryn-Gang-2020

 I know GW is expensive, and I know it is gauche to even bring it up... but I realized my eyebrows had involuntarily raised up as far as they could go when I went back to the price.

I was hoping to nab one for a project, didn't realize they were going to be sold in a set of six ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 22, 2020, 05:03:52 AM
There's a set of 2 as well (and remember it will probably be half the price in the UK and elsewhere in the northern hemisphere)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 22, 2020, 08:41:24 PM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on August 22, 2020, 04:51:46 AM
I know GW is expensive, and I know it is gauche to even bring it up... but I realized my eyebrows had involuntarily raised up as far as they could go when I went back to the price.

Yeah, don't be fooled by the NZ$ - having grown up in NZ, we used to refer to the NZ$ as the peso of the South Pacific. In the UK the full gang is selling for £50, and the two-ogryn set (with almost? all the options) for £25. It is a little more than I expected, but my fellow New Zealanders do get ripped off, as Mr Beefcake points out.

New Orlock stuff revealed today is a bit disappointing. OK ideas and cool to see some female gangers, but the sculpts are really lacking something. I dunno, it is almost like the sculptors were thinking about something else while doing the sculpting - they're just kinda uninspired.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 23, 2020, 12:09:25 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on August 22, 2020, 08:41:24 PM
Yeah, don't be fooled by the NZ$ - having grown up in NZ, we used to refer to the NZ$ as the peso of the South Pacific. In the UK the full gang is selling for £50, and the two-ogryn set (with almost? all the options) for £25. It is a little more than I expected, but my fellow New Zealanders do get ripped off, as Mr Beefcake points out.

New Orlock stuff revealed today is a bit disappointing. OK ideas and cool to see some female gangers, but the sculpts are really lacking something. I dunno, it is almost like the sculptors were thinking about something else while doing the sculpting - they're just kinda uninspired.

Where did you grow up?
Yes the orlock stuff isn't great. I still prefer the original metal orlocks to these plastics. (prefer plastic van saar to metal easily though)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 23, 2020, 01:12:07 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 23, 2020, 12:09:25 AM
Where did you grow up?
Yes the orlock stuff isn't great. I still prefer the original metal orlocks to these plastics. (prefer plastic van saar to metal easily though)

Spent the first twenty-odd years of my life an hour north of Auckland (now it is technically Auckland). Now on the other side of the world.
The most interesting of the new Orlocks is the guy they didn't make a miniature for on the book cover - the miner guy looks cool. I was thinking I'd get the new box and a hybrid box and get converting, then I realised how much that would be cash-wise.

The orlocks are the only gang from the old Necro I think is better than the new stuff, though nothing has ever been as cool as the Confrontation gangs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on August 24, 2020, 01:45:15 PM
Quote from: beefcake on August 22, 2020, 12:22:27 AM
I'm liking the look of the new Slave Ogryn gang for Necromunda. Great for a variety of things, but looks like a lot of duplicate pieces.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Necromunda-Slave-Ogryn-Gang-2020

All the plastic Necromunda box sets have been made up of two or more identical sprues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 05, 2020, 06:30:51 PM
Checking the High Elves on the store page...

Sixty Dollars for 10 archer or pikemen figures?!? :o At least the Greatswords are an elite choice, so one could argue for the $40+ price, but these are Elven regulars. :? Odd that the base size isn't mentioned - 25mm or 32mm? To justify the price, EE lists the number of components, ::) but thankfully they've omitted it this time.

The figures are okay, but what's with the ridiculous back mounted scabbards?!? Looking at the sprues, I don't see that much in the way of customizability to justify the price and there are no options for a musician and standard bearer.

On the plus side, pikes are back...

With my eyestrain issues, I thought I read summetal! lol

Quote
Sunmetal Weapons: The pikes used by Auralan Wardens are tipped with pure sunmetal that can burn a victim from the inside out.If the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with a Warden’s Pike is 6, that attack inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target and the attack sequence ends (do not make a wound or save roll).

Quote
Wall of Blades: When Auralan Wardens stand shoulder to shoulder, they present a bristling wall of pikes towards the foe. If the target unit made a charge move in the same turn, add 1 to wound rolls for attacks made with this unit’s Warden’s Pikes and improve the Rend characteristic of that weapon by 1.

I'm thinking showing up with Alcatan'si, Leopold's, Pirazzo's or Ricco's pikemen as proxies...   ;)

Anyone seen the new D6's?

Quote
A new frontier in dice has opened. Your eyes do not deceive you – using aelf-like craftsmanship, careful planning and several buckets of the finest aetherquartz, we've designed CYLINDRICAL dice! These aren't just a Warhammer first, but a brilliant accessory for Lumineth Realm-lords players, offering you eye-catching dice that match the aesthetics of your army.

This set includes 20 D6s – but not as you know them! Each includes a skull on the 1 face and an aelven rune on the 6 face.

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99220210001_LRLDiceLead.jpg)(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99220210001_LRLDiceFeature.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on September 05, 2020, 07:16:14 PM
I ordered the dice as a present to myself. I just really like the look of them and they'll go well with my inq28 navigator warband.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 05, 2020, 09:46:51 PM
They're very nice-looking, but someone tell those sods that cylindrical dice have been around for ages and ages.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on September 05, 2020, 10:36:40 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on September 05, 2020, 09:46:51 PM
They're very nice-looking, but someone tell those sods that cylindrical dice have been around for ages and ages.

Damn your eyes sir! Take that back! Games Workshop invented them and you know it*! And they probably invented the cylinder too!



*Although I may remember scoring little marks on the side of a pencil as a makeshift die, so I could play the Fighting Fantasy books in school when I was meant to be working.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 06, 2020, 12:00:04 AM
That's quite obviously a hexagonal prism, not a cylinder, GW can't even get geometry right.
Saying that, they do look quite cool. Might see if I can find something similar on Aliexpress, lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 06, 2020, 12:02:51 AM
I fail to see how those will stop rolling easily on a table.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 06, 2020, 02:37:43 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on September 05, 2020, 09:46:51 PM
They're very nice-looking, but someone tell those sods that cylindrical dice have been around for ages and ages.
Those sods on TGA Community think GW's innovative in brush technology! lol

I've seen dice like this before, but never used 'em.  Would rolling a D-Total (http://www.gamescience.com/D-Total-Black-with-White-Numbers_p_171.html) in a store cause a warp storm? ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 06, 2020, 07:31:08 AM
Its all a bit harsh really

They are only re-inventing things and copyrighting it.. I mean really, very inventive. Aefls, Aedarves, Aeliens or, well, you get the idea

probably wheels next so expect Cease and Desists soon for all your vehicles.. Just hope they are not made of Finecast..

hmm finecast bubble dice, there's an idea, guaranteed not one alike.

I am surprised they stuck with the old name "dice" and didn't change it to something else Aedice etc.

Although this is all starting to sound more like they are adopting some sort of regional accents into their ranges.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Aerendar Valandil on September 06, 2020, 10:44:10 AM
Didn't I see cavalry somewhere?

I'd like to know how far the scalecreep goes this time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 06, 2020, 02:59:00 PM
Quote from: Aerendar Valandil on September 06, 2020, 10:44:10 AM
Didn't I see cavalry somewhere?

I'd like to know how far the scalecreep goes this time.
Posted pages back...

I like the realistic looking horses, but they'll probably be on the same sprue, so useless for other projects. :(

If these are $60 + sales tax per box, how much will a pack of 5 horsemen go for? >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on September 07, 2020, 06:27:30 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on September 06, 2020, 12:02:51 AM
I fail to see how those will stop rolling easily on a table.

They're not meant to. They haven't told you yet, but they can only be used in a unique patented dice tray designed exclusively for the purpose of selling - I mean, improving the quality of the gamer's otherwise pointless existence.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 07, 2020, 07:16:10 PM
Quote from: Andrew_McGuire on September 07, 2020, 06:27:30 PM
They're not meant to. They haven't told you yet, but they can only be used in a unique patented dice tray designed exclusively for the purpose of selling - I mean, improving the quality of the gamer's otherwise pointless existence.

The other thing I don't get about them is the AoS can require huge numbers of dice. How are you going to roll more than a few of these at a time?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 08, 2020, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: pixelgeek on September 06, 2020, 12:02:51 AM
I fail to see how those will stop rolling easily on a table.

You uncivilised heathen! One does not simply roll dice on the tabletop anymore! One has to have a dice tray and roll like a civilised man using a dice cup...

What is the world coming too?

P.S. I actually was doing this for the game of 40k I played last week. Worked until 30 shots from termagants, then not enough space in the dice tray to roll them all...  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 08, 2020, 02:17:38 PM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 08, 2020, 10:28:15 AM
You uncivilised heathen! One does not simply roll dice on the tabletop anymore! One has to have a dice tray and roll like a civilised man using a dice cup...

Actually I think rolling a mitt full of those dice on a table might be ine of the Aelves new Endless Spells.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on September 08, 2020, 03:06:31 PM
IMO, if you have to roll more than 2 dice... your rules suck.  ;)

Beer and pretzels, baby!  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on September 08, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on September 07, 2020, 07:16:10 PM
The other thing I don't get about them is the AoS can require huge numbers of dice. How are you going to roll more than a few of these at a time?

I hadn't thought of that, but a few possibilities spring to mind. One is a massive glove - adorned with the appropriate faction symbols, of course - which permit holding and rolling the requisite number of dice into the tray, which will vaguely resemble a baseball catcher's mitt, functionally speaking, though of course the prominent symbols will prevent anyone from making such a fatuous observation. Depending on the space and personnel available, one might have to nominate a fellow player, or non-playing friend or family member, as 'catcher'. Alternatively, the 'glove' and 'mitt' might, if made of sufficiently sturdy material, interlock, thus becoming a large shaker; once sufficiently shaken it will be placed in such a way - possibly incorporating a fold-out mechanism - as to allow all the dice to face upwards and reveal the scores when the top half (glove) is removed from the bottom (mitt).

Another is to use a spring-operated dice-thrower to project the dice onto an large tray (both naturally bearing appropriate faction symbols and legal text threatening action against anyone who tries to copy the idea). This might require some brainstorming, particularly from a health and safety perspective, though if the dice are projected perpendicularly with sufficient force, the tray might be replaced by a double-sided adhesive sheet attached to a ceiling, also functioning as flypaper. (Replacements will, of course, be available, as will a tool for removing the dice once the scores have been read from below).

I'm sure more imaginative minds than mine will produce further, possibly superior, ideas than the above.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 08, 2020, 11:02:45 PM

Pish, simple, GW  Galvanized dustbins of dice. skirmish games, so you only need a small area of table for miniatures, frees up the rest of the room  to roll your dustbin of dice.

Of course all suitably designed with your chosen faction/team/army details on your bin.

Has to be galvanised, as plastic bins won't make the right noise when you shake them...

Think of the workout and excercise your going to get to.

Ok smaller less serious games you can get a cheap plastic bucket but metal would still be better of course.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 09, 2020, 11:59:26 AM
I've been diving into any and all 6mm sci-fi rules I can find of late, and while I've also always mocked the buckets of dice, I'm starting to realise that it does allow for faster play than most other systems. It feels very inelegant but it's so easy it's hard to cock up, and with 3-4 different colours of dice at your disposal, you can roll for multiple weapons in a unit at once. Compared to systems that require 2d6 per weapon system, or even a combination of various dice up to 5 which you all add together PER WEAPON on a vehicle (looking at you polyversal) gameplay grinds to a halt.

So yeah, buckets of dice, unelegant as a brick to the face, also the simplest solution. KISS in action I guess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 09, 2020, 01:19:24 PM
Yup. I think the criticism of such a system, not necessarily GW's, is that it then becomes about how many dice you roll rather than rules that make units different, or armies different to play for example.

I suppose I aught to give a very quick review of the first game I played.

Necrons Vs Tyranids 1000pts / 50PL.

My opponent took to the field with nothing but the Necron force from the Indomitus set, which is from memory, around 5pts off the limit of 1000 for our game.

I took 997pts of Tyranids using the new points on battlescribe and the 8th edition codex.

Rather than a battle report I'll do a reflection as we didn't really keep track as it was a learning game - neither had played 9th yet and neither of us had played 40k in some time. My last game would have been the last of two or three right at the start of 8th, his was probably longer than that I think.

Necrons: The warriors are fantastic. They get to come back on a 5+ and whilst at first glance that may seem like a 5++ invulnerable save it's actually even better. Their rules mean that you count as outnumbering your opponent on an objective no matter how many Necrons are on it. Mainly because at any moment those 9 lifeless robots can suddenly become reanimated once more.

He took them with the rifles and they did a pretty decent job of softening up incoming gaunt and stealer units. They are aided and abetted by their lord who can confer certain buffs onto them such as bonuses to rolling to hit. The combo works well as whilst he is near to them he cannot be targeted and being near to at least one unit of them means they get buffed. Removing them from those objectives was not going to be easy, and nor was it.

Then throw into the mix the reanimator. At the end of the game we had mixed feelings. It can boost nearby Necron Warriors by making their reanimation roll 4+ instead of 5+ and we didn't really track how much of a difference this made. The fact that I had reduced the unit to around 4 models on two occasions and it was back up to 9 by the time I managed to charge it suggests that it did help. I felt it meant that the one unit it was focused on became rather unstoppable with that and the Overlord's buffs as well.

The Destroyers and Plasmacyte made pretty short work of a unit of genestealers despite being cheaper. However, they suffered pretty badly to Smite and then the combined charge of a carnifex with monstrous crushing claws and the avenging hive tyrant, though it took two rounds of combat to finish them off. If they had attacked softer targets on my left, they probably would have decimated a unit of tyranid warriors as well as a unit of genestealers on that flank. Pretty decent unit but you won't want to stick them out on their own unless you are confident they will smash up a lonely enemy unit isolated from the rest of the army.

That's about as much as I can remember of the Necron reflection. My opponent was toying with the idea of dropping the reanimator for another unit of warriors.

Tyranids: Lesson 1 - do not play 9th like it is 8th. The memory of the slaughter faced at the hands of running across a table only to face overwatch after overwatch clouded my judgement and I was too cautious. That coupled with the way that Command Points used to work and it took me a good three turns for 9th edition to sink in. By then it was too late to overcome the one Victory Point that separated us by the final turn.

I took a Hive Tyrant and a Broodlord for HQ. Two units of 10 genestealers, a unit of 10 hormagants, a unit of three tyranid warriors (one armed with a deathspitter) and a unit of 10 termigants for troops. To give a bit more ummph and something that offered something a little different so I went with a carnifex with monstrous crushing claws and a lictor.

Again, due to being too cautious I ended up running out of time and not deploying my lictor.

So, turn 3 reflections. Spend those CP's. You start with 6 and some very nasty stratagems which can be lethal. One allows you to deploy 5 genestealers within 6" of your Broodlord but 9" away from your enemy at the end of your movement phase. Broodlord advances, uses strategem. The wonderful thing about Broodlords and stealers is that they can charge even if they advanced that turn. So the unit he called in the turn before and him were able to charge and the unit that had just appeared was able to at least try to charge in which they managed.

That's nasty. If that isn't enough there is a similar stratagem that for 1CP allows a unit of termagants to come on at the end of your movement phase as if reinforcements.

So, with more abundance of CP's I now need to also expand the number of miniatures I am taking to games so I can spam them on when I want to.

My overall reflection is that 9th is incredibly more balanced. Combat is no longer a hit and hope - destroy the enemy unit when you charge or face them falling back and shooting you to bits. The nids have their teeth in the game again. However, shooting remains to be rather nasty and thins down enemy numbers as you would expect.

The unit I was most disapointed with was the warriors. I took them as a bit of shooting back up, instantly realised the deathspitter is a waste so will try a venom cannon next time. The other two, along with the termagants had devourers which spit out quite a bit of firepower.

The only major gripe I had was terrain. It certainly works more smoothly, but cover save bonuses are rather redundant. The sorts of units that are really wanting to benefit from cover saves are weak units with poorer armour. Most weapons of S4 or higher carry a -1 AP. So in reality, it's merely giving your grunts their 6+ armour save back. Had they made it a shooting modifier I think it would have been led to it being used in a more thematic way. As it is, I can see more heavily armed units getting more out of it than grunts, which always grinds with me.

Spacemarines, now with two wounds, walking around in armour as good as some vehicles, will know that a weapon with a -2AP will be reduced to a -1AP in cover which reduces them to a 4+ save rather than 3+. In that instance, cover does nothing for a guardsman or any grunt that has a 6+ save. I know this isn't entirely new, but it just irks me a little that the units that really don't need cover and who are often depicted walking around firefights calmly in the open, faithful in their armour, are actually the ones that are better off hugging those ruins. But meh, minor gripe.

Next to the warriors the hormagants were the next underperforming unit. Their 6" consolidate move is great if they make it into combat with the enemy and win. However, they are a bit powderpuff otherwise. They are ok in combat, they are very much combat termagants really. I think they would serve a better purpose in a larger brood, certainly larger numbers in larger pointed games. A good expendable unit.

Overall, after one game, 9th really feels much better. The game was balanced especially taking into account my cautiousness. Had I done what tyranid armies should always do, and just go for it, I would have had far more success. Bearing in mind though, just killing stuff won't win you games. You need to complete your mission objectives. I can't wait for game two. If it's 1000pts I would be tempted to throw in a Tervigon and drop the warriors and lictor and gain another source of termagant spawning... their firepower may lack AP but is numerous! Not to mention, if deployed near an objective, shifting them is going to require some serious extermination pest control.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 11, 2020, 03:38:56 AM

I recall the ads, but could never find it, but I think the Hero Gladiators (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=313&v=mvoxFrsK_QQ&feature=emb_logo) range was creative with the cylindrical dice...



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on September 12, 2020, 02:24:23 PM
It is nice to see a Necron enjoying his Lego. Look at the lovely wave he's managed to build.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/kpLm7GghsvzoQ0M9.jpg)

Actually, there are some seriously cool sculpts being revealed today, but once I saw the Lego I couldn't unsee it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on September 12, 2020, 03:25:16 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on September 12, 2020, 02:24:23 PM
Actually, there are some seriously cool sculpts being revealed today, but once I saw the Lego I couldn't unsee it.

Who's going to be the first one to paint it in flat red, blue, yellow and white? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on September 12, 2020, 04:30:42 PM
I quite like the look of that primaris speeder, But It'll look even better with the marines ripped out, the gun turret replaced with a flatbed cargo area, and a crew of sump sea scavengers on top. Give it a beaten up industrial paintjob and it's even better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 12, 2020, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: YPU on September 09, 2020, 11:59:26 AM
So yeah, buckets of dice, unelegant as a brick to the face, also the simplest solution. KISS in action I guess.

I don't think it is though. There are a limited number of possible results on a D6 especially in  AoS where you have mods and rerolls. You can average out the results of that many D6 pretty easily without seriously changing the results.

Fewer dice would be simpler even if there are more models in a unit. Look at Oathmark. 20 models in a unit. You roll a max of 5 dice. Quick resolution.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 12, 2020, 04:33:03 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on September 12, 2020, 04:30:42 PM
I quite like the look of that primaris speeder

Hard to believe it was the same team that made the Mario Cart vehicle

Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on September 12, 2020, 04:30:42 PM
But It'll look even better with the marines ripped out

Well at least that poor deaf SOB in the turret
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 12, 2020, 07:48:11 PM
Link? Can't find a danged thing on this update y'all are talking about.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 12, 2020, 08:27:11 PM
If you keep scrolling down the page you get to the shinies - link (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/12/the-codex-show/)

All that, and nobody's mentioned the new Primaris Marines ;D - Bandai Marines (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=2512876101+1678010640)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on September 13, 2020, 11:48:10 AM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on September 12, 2020, 04:30:42 PM
I quite like the look of that primaris speeder, But It'll look even better with the marines ripped out, the gun turret replaced with a flatbed cargo area, and a crew of sump sea scavengers on top. Give it a beaten up industrial paintjob and it's even better.

That is a good looking and useful bit of kit, just ripe for conversion.
 8)

That Nurgle Termie is the first of the newer Nurgle figures that I actually like, more reminiscent of the older style without any silly bells or clouds of cartoon smoke coming out of it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on September 13, 2020, 12:02:13 PM
Quote from: pixelgeek on September 12, 2020, 04:33:03 PM
Hard to believe it was the same team that made the Mario Cart vehicle

Well at least that poor deaf SOB in the turret

I am assuming the SOB just comes out standing as is, the turret and weapon option being built into his shoulder pads...

As for an 8 inch tall £85 slightly more than true scale space marine toy - er no, no not thankyou. nice for somebody seriously into it, but its  alot to shell out for even a basic 5 man team.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 13, 2020, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: zemjw on September 12, 2020, 08:27:11 PM
All that, and nobody's mentioned the new Primaris Marines ;D - Bandai Marines (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=2512876101+1678010640)

This scale creep's getting way out of hand!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 14, 2020, 08:17:21 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on September 13, 2020, 08:27:22 PM
This scale creep's getting way out of hand!

You say that but I'm pretty sure the horus herresy books mention Orks that grow to the size of buildings, this is just putting that gene in the marine.  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on September 15, 2020, 07:53:38 PM
I'd hate to see the price for an army starter box!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on September 15, 2020, 08:05:17 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on September 15, 2020, 07:53:38 PM
I'd hate to see the price for an army starter box!

Just you wait. Someone is going to do it
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 25, 2020, 08:02:03 PM
GW are giving you a £6 voucher if you spend £40 with them online by the end of September.

In a stunning example of my luck, I ordered from them last weekend  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on September 25, 2020, 10:32:35 PM
Quote from: zemjw on September 25, 2020, 08:02:03 PM
GW are giving you a £6 voucher if you spend £40 with them online by the end of September.

In a stunning example of my luck, I ordered from them last weekend  :(
I thought was bit cheeky Tbh ?
Spend £40 by end of the month to get £6 off when you order in Oct I read it or did I get it wrong 😂
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on September 26, 2020, 03:05:09 AM
Quote from: 3 fingers on September 25, 2020, 10:32:35 PM
I thought was bit cheeky Tbh ?

I agree. If they really liked their customers - just offer a discount up front. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on September 26, 2020, 08:45:19 AM
Quote from: zemjw on September 25, 2020, 08:02:03 PM
GW are giving you a £6 voucher if you spend £40 with them online by the end of September.
More accurately, they're offering [some] voucher after spending [some] amount of money - even within the same currency, I've seen at least 4 different combinations of numbers floating around.
Just a test to see how they can get the most people to spend the most extra money.

Having to order within a few days to qualify is just another enforced fear of missing out strategy, and then you have to spend the voucher within a month too. Even for stuff you may have wanted to get anyway, the discount is lower than several other shops offer (especially when considering the value of the second order, which you probably want to be big enough to qualify for free shipping etc).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on September 26, 2020, 11:06:04 AM
So, spend £40 to , eventually, get £46 worth of stuff....or go to another source and get, typically, 20% off of their price anyway.

Hmmmm....

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on September 26, 2020, 12:13:09 PM
Quote from: zemjw on September 25, 2020, 08:02:03 PM
GW are giving you a £6 voucher if you spend £40 with them online by the end of September.

Could be useful by mail order only thingies...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on September 28, 2020, 05:32:46 PM
US version:

Quote
A $9 Voucher Just For You...
 
Despite everything going on, the Warhammer hobby is healthier than ever. That’s in large part thanks to you and the amazing community of Warhammer fans around the world sharing positivity and great projects online.
To say thanks, we've a free $9 voucher for you.

All you need to do to claim your voucher is spend $65 on games-workshop.com by the 30th of September and we’ll give you a voucher for $9 to redeem against an order in October.

What's more, once you use your voucher, we'll give you another one! (Rumour has it there might even be a third voucher on the offing…)
That’s it. Now, go grab those kits you’ve been eyeing up.

Those 10 High Elf pikemen are $60 :o and adding on a Contrast Paint at $7.50 and with 6.25% MA tax, I get a total of ~$71.72. ::) I'll pass...

Who're these people who claim it's cheaper to get in "da 'obby" today than 20 years ago? ;D

Old enough to remember when they had proper mail order sales and threw in free bitz for spending a certain amount... :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 29, 2020, 09:23:29 AM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on September 26, 2020, 08:45:19 AM
More accurately, they're offering [some] voucher after spending [some] amount of money - even within the same currency, I've seen at least 4 different combinations of numbers floating around.
Just a test to see how they can get the most people to spend the most extra money.

Having to order within a few days to qualify is just another enforced fear of missing out strategy, and then you have to spend the voucher within a month too. Even for stuff you may have wanted to get anyway, the discount is lower than several other shops offer (especially when considering the value of the second order, which you probably want to be big enough to qualify for free shipping etc).

Oh god, it's just like a <ghasp> SALE!  :o A lot of gaming companies do this, shove stuff on sale for limited periods, offer discounts etc. Hell what is Black Friday? Or Cyber Monday? I get it if you didn't like those either but "enforced fear of missing out strategy"... this is capitalism. Love it or hate it, this sort of thing is present in every single industry.

You could always order into your local store, if there is one local to you. No postage then.

Funny though. Loads of people moan that GW never does anything like this, then when they do they moan more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: commissarmoody on September 29, 2020, 10:16:10 AM
Quote from: Condottiere on September 28, 2020, 05:32:46 PM
US version:

Those 10 High Elf pikemen are $60 :o and adding on a Contrast Paint at $7.50 and with 6.25% MA tax, I get a total of ~$71.72. ::) I'll pass...

Who're these people who claim it's cheaper to get in "da 'obby" today than 20 years ago? ;D

Old enough to remember when they had proper mail order sales and threw in free bitz for spending a certain amount... :(
Yeah that's why I switched to historicals, I can't afford the power and price creep.  lol
But when I started gameing in 1997, GWs used to be cheaper then most historicals. Guess it's the price of success.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cait Sidhe on September 29, 2020, 11:18:22 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 29, 2020, 09:23:29 AM
Oh god, it's just like a <ghasp> SALE!  :o

It's not a "sale" though, it's a psychological trick as others have pointed out. You're not getting that £6 off what you're buying, you're getting the promise of £6 off (next month and only next month) provided you make two large orders instead of one. It's to get you putting in regular orders and on the timescale they decree...

Quote from: mcfonz on September 29, 2020, 09:23:29 AM
Funny though. Loads of people moan that GW never does anything like this...

...and another withered finger curls closed on the monkey paw...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on September 29, 2020, 01:07:43 PM
Quote from: Cait Sidhe on September 29, 2020, 11:18:22 AM
It's not a "sale" though, it's a psychological trick as others have pointed out. You're not getting that £6 off what you're buying, you're getting the promise of £6 off (next month and only next month) provided you make two large orders instead of one. It's to get you putting in regular orders and on the timescale they decree...

Yeah, I get you. But it's pretty commonplace. Supermarkets do it all of the time. Some brands do it, put a discount off the next purchase on their packaging. Hell, it's exactly what McDonald's does with it's hot drinks though you typically get until the end of the year rather than the next month. It isn't brilliant, but then again, spending £40 is not difficult and with the new edition that's a rule book and a unit I guess. It's around 15% of the purchase back. Which whilst it isn't 15% off, is in line with FLGS and some online retailers in that sense. But it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think it's more a case of just hating capitalism at this point - which is fine by me but call it what it is. All of these sales practices to try and sell more and more often, surround us. I'm somewhat immune to them. If it suits what I am doing, then fine, if not? It's clearly not aimed at me or people in the same position as me.

Quote from: Cait Sidhe on September 29, 2020, 11:18:22 AM
...and another withered finger curls closed on the monkey paw...

 :o And in this year of all years?!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 29, 2020, 02:13:48 PM
I do kindof regret not getting any of their "virtual vouchers" when they were doing a "buy some, get some free" thing at the start of the pandemic. I don't think there was any time limit on when they could be spent, but I didn't see me buying anything for them for a while so didn't bother.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on September 30, 2020, 01:30:07 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on September 29, 2020, 09:23:29 AM
Funny though. Loads of people moan that GW never does anything like this, then when they do they moan more.

This is not a sale.  A sale would be an immediate discount.  Given it's a delayed discount for less than I can get online from other vendors for my initial purchase, it seems rather silly.  When I bought P&G items (that I needed anyway) from my warehouse club - I received a 25% gift card rebate.  The point of this type of rebate is to get people to buy their brands in the belief we will purchase them again.  I fail to see how this effort by GW is really meaningful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 01, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Quote from: zemjw on September 29, 2020, 02:13:48 PM
I do kindof regret not getting any of their "virtual vouchers" when they were doing a "buy some, get some free" thing at the start of the pandemic. I don't think there was any time limit on when they could be spent, but I didn't see me buying anything for them for a while so didn't bother.

You mean when they, effectively, offered an extra 10% free?
Then raised their prices by at least 10% to offset this!!!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 01, 2020, 02:29:48 PM
That's the one. For some reason I remembered it as being much more generous, like 50% free, but you're correct, it was 10%. Perhaps that was why I didn't bother :(

I was given some physical GW vouchers for my birthday, which was just before the lockdown. Hopefully I'll get to spend them before my next birthday o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 01, 2020, 11:14:22 PM
Quote from: syrinx0 on September 30, 2020, 01:30:07 AM
This is not a sale.  A sale would be an immediate discount.  Given it's a delayed discount for less than I can get online from other vendors for my initial purchase, it seems rather silly.  When I bought P&G items (that I needed anyway) from my warehouse club - I received a 25% gift card rebate.  The point of this type of rebate is to get people to buy their brands in the belief we will purchase them again.  I fail to see how this effort by GW is really meaningful.

I mean, I hate to say it, but you know, you failing to see how it is meaningful doesn't mean it is actually meaningless. What it possibly is worth it for is the direct only stuff you can't get elsewhere and can't get the 20% off that the other retailers can offer on the standard stuff. And I think you can still order it into your local store if you have one, which means no postage. Still not a lot.

Also, I accept that it isn't a 'sale', and sort of have done for a few posts now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on October 05, 2020, 06:26:04 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on October 01, 2020, 11:14:22 PM
I mean, I hate to say it, but you know, you failing to see how it is meaningful doesn't mean it is actually meaningless. What it possibly is worth it for is the direct only stuff you can't get elsewhere and can't get the 20% off that the other retailers can offer on the standard stuff. And I think you can still order it into your local store if you have one, which means no postage. Still not a lot.

Also, I accept that it isn't a 'sale', and sort of have done for a few posts now.

I buy the non direct items for a 20% discount retail then pay their higher fees for direct only when I have too which is rather rare. So far, I have never come out on the losing end of that. What do you buy direct that could cost less given the structure of this purchase twice for a discount deal? What real purchases worked out for you to make this deal meaningful?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on October 05, 2020, 03:15:51 PM
I'm not going to pursue this avenue of conversation any further to be honest.

There are areas in the world - where this may be more valuable than to others. I know of people in Australia who order direct as it is cheaper than buying new from shops there due to the additional costs that GW put on their prices there for shipping etc.

As already mentioned, not everyone has the ability or access to a FLGS which offers a 20% discount.

Whether it is meaningful to you or not, or me or not doesn't make it meaningless. It may make it less attractive to many people who have access to a 20% discount on RRP or who have no interest in direct only items. It may be a small number of people. But it is what it is. It is still a gesture. Something more than previously seen. And as someone else has mentioned, they did a deal with their vouchers as well.

They'll never suit everyone. Just the same as a sale on ties in your favoured clothing store may entirely pass me by. It doesn't bother me, I hope those that buy ties enjoy it. Meaningless to me as I have the four I will ever need, but perhaps not to someone who wears one 9-5, Mon-Fri and likes to mix it up with their suit accessories.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on October 05, 2020, 03:36:56 PM
looks like those new giants are coming next week. very curious to see what the price point is - I imagine something inline with the knight kits, but given recent prices it could be substantially more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on October 05, 2020, 05:59:47 PM
120 UKpounds has been leaked... A bit too steep for my wallet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on October 05, 2020, 06:39:40 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on October 05, 2020, 03:36:56 PM
looks like those new giants are coming next week. very curious to see what the price point is - I imagine something inline with the knight kits, but given recent prices it could be substantially more.
The price will be giant.

Sorry, I know. Too obvious.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: twrchtrwyth on October 05, 2020, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on October 05, 2020, 06:39:40 PM
The price will be giant.

Sorry, I know. Too obvious.
Bless you for trying though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on October 05, 2020, 08:54:10 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on October 05, 2020, 05:59:47 PM
120 UKpounds has been leaked... A bit too steep for my wallet.

Ouch. that's ...well, I pay that much for a months studio rental.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on October 05, 2020, 09:57:52 PM
I wonder if there will get to a stage where even the most die hard gw fan boy will say sod it your taking the urine now an not buy it ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on October 06, 2020, 01:01:53 AM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on October 05, 2020, 05:59:47 PM
120 UKpounds has been leaked... A bit too steep for my wallet.
I'm assuming it's a single sculpt...

Sons of Behemat: Gargants Evolved  (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/05/sons-of-behemat-gargants-evolved/)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/oDGRxcCYh94PMQE1.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 06, 2020, 05:15:25 AM
Quite nice though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Derek H on October 06, 2020, 01:43:27 PM
Quote from: commissarmoody on September 29, 2020, 10:16:10 AM
Yeah that's why I switched to historicals, I can't afford the power and price creep.  lol
But when I started gameing in 1997, GWs used to be cheaper then most historicals. Guess it's the price of success.

You seem to have a faulty memory there.  GW have never been "cheaper than most historicals".   In the early days of Citadel Miniatures, before they merged with GW, they may have been roughly comparable to most historicals, but that was the early 1980s and it's been downhill all the way since then.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 06, 2020, 02:18:33 PM
The price of individual models was higher with Citadel, but Warhammer used to be a skirmish game, with a few dozen models per side, whilst historicals were ... well, historically ... usually big-battle games needing hundreds of models per side. That seems to have swapped over somewhat. The trend towards skirmish historical gaming and good quality affordable plastics has opened up a lot of 'pick & mix' collectors (like myself) who probably wouldn't even bother to try to collect a Napoleonic Division 20 or 30 years back.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on October 06, 2020, 03:00:38 PM
I guess for some period of time, GW's plastics would have been cheaper than the historical metal figures too. Oh, how things change.


I do wonder about these new extra-giant giants though. Are they the same species as the previous ones? Are the older ones still children, facial hair notwithstanding? Are they like some fish that just grow bigger depending on how much space they get? Making new models (and making them biggerer each time) is one thing, but these are actually supposed to co-exist, they are in the same army. And next to each other, they just look... weird.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Jagannath on October 06, 2020, 03:11:50 PM
Totally get all the criticism, but I'll be damned if I don't really want one of those giants! haha
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on October 06, 2020, 03:13:07 PM
Quote from: 3 fingers on October 05, 2020, 09:57:52 PM
I wonder if there will get to a stage where even the most die hard gw fan boy will say sod it your taking the urine now an not buy it ?
Never gonna happen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on October 07, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on October 06, 2020, 01:01:53 AM
I'm assuming it's a single sculpt...

Sons of Behemat: Gargants Evolved  (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/05/sons-of-behemat-gargants-evolved/)


I am not sure what you mean by single sculpt. It's a multipart plastic kit and you can build one of the three variants (Kraken-eater, Warstomper, Gatebreaker) from the box.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/JBBxHB4759tIcoju.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/e6PGuitxyRuqiY5j.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/4x2pAHMzBo1Z85sS.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 07, 2020, 01:09:23 PM
Looks like leg pose will be the same for each, and arm pose fixed per type so I guess you can call that single pose sculpt?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on October 07, 2020, 01:55:12 PM
Quote from: McMordain on October 07, 2020, 01:07:23 PM
I am not sure what you mean by single sculpt. It's a multipart plastic kit and you can build one of the three variants (Kraken-eater, Warstomper, Gatebreaker) from the box.
I think you know what I meant...

I even linked to the article.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on October 07, 2020, 02:03:30 PM
Quote from: YPU on October 07, 2020, 01:09:23 PM
Looks like leg pose will be the same for each, and arm pose fixed per type so I guess you can call that single pose sculpt?
BINGO!

Considering that their figures are designed on a computer and for this price, you'd think they'd design more options with the leg arrangement. The easiest would be a connection point at the knees, so someone could model it running or kneeling. This is nothing more than a scaled up over-priced plastic giant and every army could use it as a mercenary, just like the original one, before GW changes their mind! 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 07, 2020, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on October 07, 2020, 02:03:30 PM
BINGO!

Considering that their figures are designed on a computer and for this price, you'd think they'd design more options with the leg arrangement. The easiest would be a connection point at the knees, so someone could model it running or kneeling. This is nothing more than a scaled up over-priced plastic giant and every army could use it as a mercenary, just like the original one, before GW changes their mind!

I don't think I agree, any movable joints will be very obvious on a model this size, making it look like a overweight barby doll at best. A kneeling pose would require alternative skirts and crotch arrangements as well which together with potential alternative legs would very quickly mean a whole extra sprue in the box of bits you'll have left over. Since its such a huge model I'd assume you only field one or two at most, meaning variety isn't as important as on massed troops?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on October 07, 2020, 04:00:44 PM
Quote from: YPU on October 07, 2020, 02:15:56 PM
I don't think I agree, any movable joints will be very obvious on a model this size, making it look like a overweight barby doll at best. A kneeling pose would require alternative skirts and crotch arrangements as well which together with potential alternative legs would very quickly mean a whole extra sprue in the box of bits you'll have left over. Since its such a huge model I'd assume you only field one or two at most, meaning variety isn't as important as on massed troops?
It's already an overweight Barbie doll, just like the smaller version! The "skirts" could've been made in segments or made smaller - what's with GW's fascination with overly long loincloths? You wouldn't need separate upper and lower legs, just have a point of articulation, like on action figures and any exposed joints could be covered up with molded caps to match parts of the knees. I'm looking at the sprues and I notice parts that will end up in a bits box, depending on the build - how about not so many useless extras? The old Marauder giant worked, 'cause the legs were in a neutral position, while both the plastic ones' legs looked choreographed, when fielded in more than one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on October 07, 2020, 04:59:42 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on October 07, 2020, 01:55:12 PM
I think you know what I meant...

I even linked to the article.

Mm.. no, that's why I asked. I can see your point now, but I disagree. It would bother me more to see three of the Marauder giants on the table than to see the three variants of the Mega-gargant. Though if we are talking about for example three Krakeneater then that is the same problem.
However I don't think it would be hard to mix and match the parts of the various versions.

Quote
I'm looking at the sprues and I notice parts that will end up in a bits box, depending on the build - how about not so many useless extras?

That is a thing since GW started to make dual/triple unit boxes. Lots of left over bits. I love converting and kitbashing though, so I see that as a win.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on October 07, 2020, 05:46:38 PM
Extra giant bits?

Buy an old, knackered Action Man on ebay and use the extra parts on it to make another giant as it looks like it could be a similar size.
 ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 07, 2020, 09:26:16 PM
I see the last version features Leo Sizechek's Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on October 10, 2020, 12:36:06 PM
Height is about 18 cms, just as the Mantic Giant. So there's your reference point when looking for cheaper alternatives. Might want to check out the larger Reaper Bones Giants for size as well or maybe toys dollies in that scale.  ;).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 10, 2020, 01:36:50 PM
There's also the new Mantic one, 19cm tall - link (https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/goblins/giant/)

It has a couple of variations, but they're separate kits
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 10, 2020, 03:07:05 PM
I do like the general proportions of the GW giants now - big feet, big guts and small heads. But the sheer size of them is ... bewildering. Seriously, what's the point of them as a gaming piece? Half a dozen strides and they'd be off the table. As a display model? Sure, they look fun, lots of compulsory fiddly bits and dangly stuff that GW love to put on things (no point seeing something unless you tie it to yourself and carry it around forever) and I like that the weapons look like something a giant may have collected and bashed together.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on October 12, 2020, 07:19:35 AM
I'll admit that there's bits I like about the new giant kit, but at $320 and brimming with spare hands and heads that can't really be used elsewhere (except maybe on very large bases as scenery or objective markers) I'm going to give it a miss.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Plynkes on October 12, 2020, 09:46:56 AM
I found two unopened pots yesterday. Devlan Mud and Gryphonne Sepia. That takes me back. Hope they are still good to go. I really depended on those two back in the day.  :)



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 12, 2020, 09:48:52 AM
Jesus wept £120ea for the plastic giants. Right, okay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: tin shed gamer on October 12, 2020, 12:01:51 PM
That's  ridiculous  ::)
I spent no where near that building an Empire force complete with war alter , steam tank, 45 + cavalry Including a 5 Marauder knights as the Army standard.(still painting). Franz and his Griffin, marauder Pegasus, and a Marauder Giant. 20 metal great swords and a couple of plastic infantry units.
It's one of those models that expose the finite nature of the current system/ programme. You build your self into a corner. The bigger the models get the less movement can be achived by the gamer. Less movement leads to less varriation  which in turn leads to stagnation. To the point you've nothing more than huge chunks of scenery that you throw buckets of dice for. Which leads on to monotony and disinterested gamer's Whole turn away from the old just in time for the Shiny new system.  It's a rince and repeat strategy which will reboot with the return of square bases. Thus a new generation gets drawn in . Which is great for business.
Pretty enough model but its on the verge of being a shelf sitter rather than a gaming piece.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 12, 2020, 01:40:20 PM
Not going to argue with anyone saying it is overpriced! It is a lovely kit though. I mean, that Mantic giant linked to above looks awful in comparison.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the Blanchitsu crowd do with this mini.

Also, I assume it does something good on the table? Back in the mid-90s I would have spent the equivalent (in today's money) on a unit of ten Cold One riders. Jesus they were terrible. My younger self didn't think through the possibility that heavy cavalry with a 4+ save at best and prone to stupidity were perhaps not an ideal army centre-piece.

Moral of the story, I guess: it has always been possible to spend way more than you should on Citadel/GW stuff. These days I just appreciate the sculpting and don't buy it if I don't want to pay for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on October 12, 2020, 01:48:15 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on October 12, 2020, 01:40:20 PM

I'm looking forward to seeing what the Blanchitsu crowd do with this mini.



It's tempting and I can think of several ways to hack it up and put it back together, But I'm not sure I can stretch to £120 for one.Even if it would be an excellent warband.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 12, 2020, 01:53:18 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on October 12, 2020, 01:40:20 PM
My younger self didn't think through the possibility that heavy cavalry with a 4+ save at best and prone to stupidity were perhaps not an ideal army centre-piece.

I hate the stupidity rule. It always seemed to apply to really (points) expensive stuff that you loved, so you either had to just shrug and try not to cry when they did nothing, or invest even more points in an expensive hero/wizard with a high enough Int/Ld (mounted, because stupid stuff always seemed to be fast as well) who did little expect chaperone them around.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on October 12, 2020, 02:22:31 PM
Yeah, the stupidity rule was wrecked by Warhammer's insistence on a long stat line. If stupidity had been tested on Ld rather than Int (i.e. if there had been no Int), it would have been fine, and troglodytes, trolls and cold ones would have all worked OK - a bit unpredictable, but not completely redundant. Troglodytes, for example, would just have been occasionally prone to brainfartery rather than being colourful and occasionally dangerous terrain pieces. But because the statline had Int, and stupid creatures must by definition have low Int, it was always absurd.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on October 12, 2020, 07:56:05 PM
INT disappeared after 3rd edition.
4th edition was released in 1992.
You appear to be complaining about a rule that hasn't existed for almost 30 years.

Fot all that time Stupidity has been tested against LD, the way you want.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 12, 2020, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: Cubs on October 12, 2020, 01:53:18 PM
I hate the stupidity rule. It always seemed to apply to really (points) expensive stuff that you loved, so you either had to just shrug and try not to cry when they did nothing, or invest even more points in an expensive hero/wizard with a high enough Int/Ld (mounted, because stupid stuff always seemed to be fast as well) who did little expect chaperone them around.

Totally agree, and I was thinking of 4th ed in making the point. It was OK if you played orcs and/or gobbos because pretty much everything good you had on the table could be totally useless if you rolled the wrong result on some unit specific "wacky greenskins" table. One more unit not quite functioning as you'd hoped didn't make a difference. Shrugging and trying not to cry was just life for the orc/gobbo general.

In any other army, though, it just wasn't fun: your plans should be foiled by a good enemy, not your own unit of crack heavy cavalry  >:(
The really stupid unit was probably me, for continuing to use them. But I paid a lot for 'em at the time.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on October 12, 2020, 09:02:13 PM
Quote from: TWD on October 12, 2020, 07:56:05 PM
INT disappeared after 3rd edition.
4th edition was released in 1992.
You appear to be complaining about a rule that hasn't existed for almost 30 years.

Fot all that time Stupidity has been tested against LD, the way you want.  :)

Ah - but I have never played any edition after third, so they don't count!  ;)

Glad to hear they fixed it. But my complaint - fresh in the mind after a recent nostalgic game of third - is really part of a larger one about 'classic' Warhammer: that all the fiddly little differences in the long statline tend to cancel out.

In our recent game, beastmen, lizardmen, orcs, hobgoblins and chaos warriors (and troglodytes, too, had they managed to fight anything) were all radically different in statlines, but all ended up as 'tough, durable infantry'. I think that was always a problem with Warhammer (at least in the editions I played): too much micro-differentiation between troop species and not enough high-level differentiation between troop roles.

I always compare Warhammer with Hordes of the Things, which was a revelation when we began playing it instead. It only has a few main infantry types (blades, warbands, spears, hordes, shooters), but they provide much more variety because their roles are so much more distinct. Warhammer should have much more variety with its gazillions of troop types, but when high WS is cancelled by middling S (or the opponent's high T or W), so much of that variety gets sucked out by the system.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 12, 2020, 09:15:23 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on October 12, 2020, 09:02:13 PM
Warhammer should have much more variety with its gazillions of troop types, but when high WS is cancelled by middling S (or the opponent's high T or W), so much of that variety gets sucked out by the system.

Nail on the head there. The (in my view irritating) roll-to-hit then roll-to-wound system is to blame. Compare 2nd ed. Space Marine (if that isn't too recent for you  lol), which also had gazillions of troop types, but also had a tonne of variety in unit roles. Quite striking to see the "gazillions of units" ethos working differently with a different combat system. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on October 14, 2020, 03:27:58 AM
The Mega Giant is up on the US store for $195... :o

So with MA State Sales Tax, it's ~$207. :o

Gdubs is offering this at an exchange rate of £1=~$1.62... lol

In comparison, Forge World's Bonegrinder Giant is $175!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 14, 2020, 10:03:47 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on October 12, 2020, 09:15:23 PM
Nail on the head there. The (in my view irritating) roll-to-hit then roll-to-wound system is to blame. Compare 2nd ed. Space Marine (if that isn't too recent for you  lol), which also had gazillions of troop types, but also had a tonne of variety in unit roles. Quite striking to see the "gazillions of units" ethos working differently with a different combat system.

But then the system kind of grew from the quasi-roleplay early edition Warhammers (1st and 2nd) with their character generation stuff and D&D type scenarios. It's a pity it never managed to evolve to skip that extra step (or two).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: ErikB on October 14, 2020, 04:59:42 PM
Quote from: Condottiere on October 14, 2020, 03:27:58 AM
The Mega Giant is up on the US store for $195... :o

So with MA State Sales Tax, it's ~$207. :o

Gdubs is offering this at an exchange rate of £1=~$1.62... lol

In comparison, Forge World's Bonegrinder Giant is $175!

Does anyone actually spend that much on one model?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 14, 2020, 05:18:03 PM
That's small change compared to some of ForgeWorlds models.

But I certainly wouldn't.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: ErikB on October 14, 2020, 05:47:26 PM
Forgeworld makes some amazing stuff but they're big, fragile, and so expensive.  I regularly blow $500 in a month or two on minis but I get a lot of little projects for that money.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on October 14, 2020, 08:41:30 PM
Quote from: ErikB on October 14, 2020, 04:59:42 PM
Does anyone actually spend that much on one model?
Depends on the model and whether it can be acquired on sale...

The Rackham Titan Dragon went for around as much, but that was a huge resin model...

A shame I missed out on it when it went on sale. :'(

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/V4MAAOSwqxRa8okk/s-l1600.jpg)

I recently purchased the Mid-Nor Hydra, but only after it was reduced to $68 from RRP $119.99.

(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2011/12/Confrontation-Hydra-Unboxed-in-HD.jpg)

My issue with the Mega Giant is that it's overpriced, especially for foreigners! >:( For £70 or £80, I might've been interested, but I've got other manufacturers' giants in metal for around $20-$30, like several WotC Chainmail Hill Giants (https://chainmailminiatures.com/2018/04/10/96290-hill-giant/).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 15, 2020, 05:36:46 AM
I bought both of those when they were on sale a while ago. Still sitting in the box waiting for me to find the guts to paint them lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on October 16, 2020, 01:39:51 AM
Quote from: beefcake on October 15, 2020, 05:36:46 AM
I bought both of those when they were on sale a while ago. Still sitting in the box waiting for me to find the guts to paint them lol.

 >:( >:( >:(

Had CMoN not flooded my inbox with figure ranges I had no interest in, I might not have ignored the messages and found out about the sale. :( With MM, their sales coincide with periods when I don't have the funds at hand, so again I pay attention, but had I done so, I could've grabbed the Hydra for $27 - someone guy got seven of them at this price!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 03, 2020, 03:02:06 AM
Looks like the Mega Giant's price hasn't dissuaded hobbyists from splurging on 2 or 3 at a time and this is with GW introducing stock limitations on newer products per store!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiCMQe-wJ2s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiCMQe-wJ2s)


Found this review of the unboxing and assembly of the Mantic Games' Giant (http://thehobbyheroes.blogspot.com/2018/11/mantic-games-giant-review.html).

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LYz6zNVPDDE/W-Dvc7F2bHI/AAAAAAAAAaU/rHr46ept4bcZ5N1XDQprXTINv6HKmCUxQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_0321.JPG)


According to u/solepureskillz, one way to get a bang for your buck would be to magnetize the Mega-Gargant's parts (https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/jhvip5/fully_magnetized_megagargant_if_a_models_going_to/), allowing a player to field a different giant per game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on November 04, 2020, 09:32:45 AM
Cool enough model, too big to be a gaming piece for my tastes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on November 04, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
On other matters, I went into my local Games Workshop on Saturday to stock up, and found Green Stuff is no longer stocked!

I am sure this is not not news to you, but it certainly a surprise to me.

[Edit]Okay, Our Gracious Host stocks it - for the next order....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 05, 2020, 01:16:16 AM
Three MORE reasons to visit your Warhammer Store! (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/04/three-more-reasons-to-visit-your-warhammer-store/)

I wonder how this will work with Covid and by the time I'm there on Saturday, they won't have any free minis. :-[

Quote
Yep, you read that right. Free! Every month, you’ll be able to pick up a new model at no cost, themed around one of the month’s releases.

With the epic new Broken Realms narrative arc for Warhammer Age of Sigmar kicking off this month, November’s models are Witch Aelves! Morathi would be proud.

Getting your free model is easy – just stop by your local Warhammer store and ask! Many stores will also be running painting competitions around the month’s free model – even more reason to try your hand at painting something a little different. Best to get to your store early each month – they will only have so many free models to give out.

Quote
There’ll be a new coin to collect each month and will include iconic symbols from Warhammer Age of Sigmar and Warhammer 40,000, starting with Daughters of Khaine for November.

The thing about coin collections is that they look way better in a nice display! So, after you’ve collected six different coins, you can claim a gorgeous booklet to show off your Warhammer coin collection to the world.

Each month, you can claim your coin with a qualifying spend of £60, €80 or $100 – easily covered by a Combat Patrol, or a Start Collecting! set and some paints.
I like the coin, but I'm not going to spend $100/month. The most I spent at the local GW was for Gorechosen on opening day...

Quote
Choose any ten pots from the Citadel Colour range, and you’ll get the most expensive one free! Whether you’re looking for loads of Contrast to get your new models Battle Ready, want some Layer and Shade paints to take them to the next level, or are after Technical paints for those finishing touches, you’ll be able to select exactly the colours you need.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Skyven on November 05, 2020, 12:17:07 PM
Ah, but it is a seven hour round trip by car to my nearest Warhammer store. So no goodies for me!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on November 05, 2020, 12:43:54 PM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on November 04, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
On other matters, I went into my local Games Workshop on Saturday to stock up, and found Green Stuff is no longer stocked!

I am sure this is not not news to you, but it certainly a surprise to me.


I buy it on eBay - you can get a large pack for a fraction of the price at which GW sell (or used to sell) a very small pack.

Like a 3ft. ribbon of GS for 7.95 post paid.

Never really understood why wargamers are willing to pay so much more for very small quantities of cheap commodities like flock, grit, basing paste or Green Stuff, just because it’s been divvied up into snazzy little branded packets ;)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 05, 2020, 05:21:25 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on November 05, 2020, 12:43:54 PM
I buy it on eBay - you can get a large pack for a fraction of the price at which GW sell (or used to sell) a very small pack.

Like a 3ft. ribbon of GS for 7.95 post paid.

Never really understood why wargamers are willing to pay so much more for very small quantities of cheap commodities like flock, grit, basing paste or Green Stuff, just because it’s been divvied up into snazzy little branded packets ;)

While it's not just a GW thing, I have an entire blog post on warning new gamers against buying game-branded materials.  I'm not sure if it's still current, but at one point GW was asking $32USD for a hobby knife, available from anywhere for $6, etc.  Citadel PVA glue (read: Elmer's glue) used to be like $12 for 6 oz. or something insane.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on November 05, 2020, 05:37:27 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on November 05, 2020, 12:43:54 PM
I buy it on eBay - you can get a large pack for a fraction of the price at which GW sell (or used to sell) a very small pack.

Like a 3ft. ribbon of GS for 7.95 post paid.

Never really understood why wargamers are willing to pay so much more for very small quantities of cheap commodities like flock, grit, basing paste or Green Stuff, just because it’s been divvied up into snazzy little branded packets ;)

I think alot of hobby products are marketed as being very specific, super refined hobby only materials so many new hobbyists don't realize they're being sold plumbers putty as a 300% markup, or that they can buy nicer brushes from an art shop for half the cost.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 05, 2020, 07:03:20 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on November 05, 2020, 12:43:54 PM
I buy it on eBay - you can get a large pack for a fraction of the price at which GW sell (or used to sell) a very small pack.

Like a 3ft. ribbon of GS for 7.95 post paid.

Never really understood why wargamers are willing to pay so much more for very small quantities of cheap commodities like flock, grit, basing paste or Green Stuff, just because it’s been divvied up into snazzy little branded packets ;)
You could also get basing material from IKEA! DYFT Decorative stones, natural 1 lb 8 oz (https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/dyft-decorative-stones-natural-60321611/)

(https://www.ikea.com/us/en/images/products/dyft-decorative-stones-natural__0417901_PE575878_S5.JPG?f=g)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on November 05, 2020, 07:34:35 PM
Quote from: Captain Blood on November 05, 2020, 12:43:54 PM
Never really understood why wargamers are willing to pay so much more for very small quantities of cheap commodities like flock, grit, basing paste or Green Stuff, just because it’s been divvied up into snazzy little branded packets ;)
There was a long running lament about the demise of model railway shops, model shops and wargames shops - quite often by the same people who were happy to buy stuff via the new fangled internet shops.

Most of my basing stuff is from model railway shops (larger quantities than wargames brands and generally better quality - currently using Woodland Scenics fine ballast from 2006).

Greenstuff has a shelf life (as does Milliput), and the quantities from GW shops worked for me.

I certainly would not buy it from the GW website.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 05, 2020, 07:38:22 PM
I've had greenstuff in the freezer for over a decade and it's still fine when I break off a chunk and use it. Milliput, not so much, but it's stored closer to a radiator than is good for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on November 05, 2020, 07:49:01 PM
Interesting idea (during the winter I might store it in the yard).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 05, 2020, 08:45:35 PM
I buy my Greenstuff in sausages online and they come in a sealed tube. Seems to keep it for years.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on November 05, 2020, 08:50:57 PM
 lol I still use plastic sprue soaked in mineral turpentine, something I learnt from an Airfix magazine circa 1680.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 06, 2020, 02:45:24 AM
Quote from: Cubs on November 05, 2020, 08:45:35 PM
I buy my Greenstuff in sausages online and they come in a sealed tube. Seems to keep it for years.
I had a green sausage in a tube once. Never worked too well after that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on November 06, 2020, 04:27:47 AM
I prefer ProCreate...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on November 06, 2020, 08:22:03 PM
Quote from: Blackwolf on November 05, 2020, 08:50:57 PM
lol I still use plastic sprue soaked in mineral turpentine, something I learnt from an Airfix magazine circa 1680.
I have a Humbrol liquid poly bottle with thickened liquid poly. :`
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on November 07, 2020, 07:18:30 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on November 05, 2020, 05:37:27 PM
.... many new hobbyists don't realise they're being sold plumbers putty as a 300% markup.....

Funny you should say that, as I use my green stuff for all sorts of things, plumbers putty being one such use.....although I do buy it by the yard at the same price point as Cap'n Blood, so it is not expensive.
 :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on November 12, 2020, 08:00:15 AM
Quote from: Ultravanillasmurf on November 04, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
[Edit]Okay, Our Gracious Host stocks it - for the next order....
And received with thanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on November 14, 2020, 04:01:16 PM
Placed a preorder for the new Blood Bowl set. I think they've got this one right.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3 fingers on December 05, 2020, 01:10:49 PM
Seen the email with the new warcry sets the shadow stalker crossbow man and nagash look good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: thenamelessdead on December 16, 2020, 08:54:54 PM
Quote from: thenamelessdead on November 14, 2020, 04:01:16 PM
Placed a preorder for the new Blood Bowl set. I think they've got this one right.
The set is excellent. The 2016 release always seemed a bit half-hearted to me and then they got a bit too gougey with the releases. This time the rulebook has plenty of teams and it feels like a proper, full game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on December 18, 2020, 01:09:19 AM
I grabbed a sprue of the noble human team off eBay to convert into Inq28 henchmen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on December 22, 2020, 01:16:51 PM
Make warhammer christmas decorations from warhammer TV.

Nothing special really BUT what caught me off guard is that they tell you to get materials from a craft shop! Obviously GW don't sell glass tree decs, But things like plaster filler haven't been seen in a GW tutorial in many a moon.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on December 27, 2020, 03:22:25 AM
Quote from: Lawful Evil on December 18, 2020, 01:09:19 AM
I grabbed a sprue of the noble human team off eBay to convert into Inq28 henchmen.
Any chance of posting pics when you get round to converting? How well would these work as the basis Necromunda venators or 40k mercenaries?

I'm thinking of getting a box of Blood Bowl Ogres and converting 'em into Roman gladiators using Jugula bits...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 11, 2021, 07:47:14 PM
Skinks coming to Warhammer Underworlds. I don't play the game, but the figures look very tempting - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/01/08/introducing-warhammer-underworlds-first-seraphon-warband/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 11, 2021, 08:28:50 PM
I saw that. And I was just after skinks for an army too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 11, 2021, 08:31:03 PM
I like the chameleon. I like to see lizardmen that look like lizards, rather than men with slightly lizardy features, if that makes sense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on January 12, 2021, 06:09:00 AM
Those are some very cool looking Lizardmen. It is going to be difficult for me to find them at a price I am willing to pay though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 12, 2021, 11:53:31 AM
GW doing very well during the pandemic - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55629984

Quote
Games Workshop, which makes the tabletop miniature game, saw sales hit a record £186.8m in the period, up 26%.

Games Workshop, which sells Warhammer and other miniature wargames around the world, said its online sales were up 90% in May to November while profits increased by a third.

Some 4.7 million people now use the Warhammer community website, it said, an increase of 200,000 on the same period last year.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Knightofspades on January 18, 2021, 11:50:12 PM
I dont know if this question is worthy of its own thread so I try asking here first.

Once I read a warhammer 40k book about a dude who could see the warp and when he was trapped by it once he was saved by his dead mother. And he was shocked to see that she was in the warp. I dont remember much other about the book.

Anyone know what this was?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 19, 2021, 07:39:29 PM
Kangaroos... elves on kangaroos.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/01/19/new-lumineth-and-soulblight-models-revealed-and-shot-on-a-non-terrible-camera/?utm_source=CUSTOMERS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GW_19th_January_Lumineth_ENG&utm_content=&utm_term=_&m_i=nPTEQTLy59SUZxyYWMPLeXoCCt6Z5GALxIvgMdOXHi%2BCa%2BNSGHTx66DqjRNk2l2bT9cPIDwt5Z6lyU0sAupy2hZgdsKm_ennnI
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pixelgeek on January 19, 2021, 07:44:51 PM
Kangaroos don't have full length front legs. Kangaroo-ish though. Like an antelope and a kangaroo mix

They are big though. How the heck would you transport a unit of those?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on January 19, 2021, 07:48:52 PM
"Shaved tauntauns!", my son said. They look pretty good as sci-fi mounts; not sure about the riders!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 19, 2021, 08:57:50 PM
They also don't have full length front legs :) Shaved Tauntauns is a good call though! lol I'd transport them with the base and ankle connection separate to the rest of the miniature via a piece of broken plastic. (Cries of "Mum, mines broken, buy me more" heard for miles around)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/17HVJuagRS0DyE9d.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 19, 2021, 09:45:49 PM
Maybe I've just got used to the way they do models lately, but these looks quite easy to transport - they're chunky enough that you can brace the thicker parts against the foam/packing material and keep the fiddly bits free floating.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on February 20, 2021, 03:12:29 PM
Whilst I'm not a huge fan of the Age of Sigmar aesthetic, the models in the new Warhammer Quest box look brilliant
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 20, 2021, 04:53:44 PM
There's a chance to win £300 of vouchers (I think, it's a bit contradictory) at the moment. Terms and conditions here (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Win-your-Basket-2021)

Quote
4.1.3. ensure that at least one item is present in your basket at 8.00 a.m. (GMT) on Thursday 25th February 2021 . My Warhammer accounts with empty baskets at 8.00 a.m. (GMT) on Thursday 25th February 2021 will not be counted in the draw.

or

Quote
4.1.5.when signed in to your ‘My Warhammer’ account, place an order of any value between 8.00 a.m. (GMT) on Thursday 18th February 2021 and 8.00 a.m. (GMT) on Thursday 25th February 2021 inclusive on either the Games Workshop web store (www.games-workshop.com) or the Forge World web store (www.forgeworld.co.uk).

The reason I say contradictory is that other bits imply you win what's in your basket. However

Quote
6.1. There are five (5) prizes to be won. Each prize is your choice of item(s), up to the value of £300 in total (or equivalent local currency as determined by GW), currently available on the Games Workshop or Forge World webstore. This value excludes delivery and sales tax, where applicable. The value of the prize pool is up to: GBP £1500 / $2646.06 AUD / USD $2049.85.

So I think it's vouchers

Given GW prices, it's a couple of boxed sets and a pot of paint, but still... ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on February 20, 2021, 05:05:29 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on February 20, 2021, 03:12:29 PM
Whilst I'm not a huge fan of the Age of Sigmar aesthetic, the models in the new Warhammer Quest box look brilliant

Yep, i'll be buying that. I don't know that i'll play warhammer quest more than a handful of times but I like every model in that box - to the degree that I can't even think what conversions I'd do to them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. White on February 20, 2021, 05:32:19 PM
Yeah, this set would be great to get someone started with a blanchitsu old world style Rangers of Shadowdeep game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 20, 2021, 09:02:32 PM
I note there's what's very clearly a Kislev to be spotted amongst the ranks of the mobs...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: powerfrog99 on February 20, 2021, 09:13:31 PM
I am quite flattened by the new quest minis that have been revealed sor far  :o

In particular the skeletion warriors are top notch I think.

Hard to wait for the rest to be shown...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on February 20, 2021, 10:39:26 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on February 20, 2021, 03:12:29 PM
Whilst I'm not a huge fan of the Age of Sigmar aesthetic, the models in the new Warhammer Quest box look brilliant
Well, it helps that (besides the steampunk dwarven hero), they're hardly Age of Sigmar stylistically! The undead could mostly have been released for Warhammer Fantasy/Mordheim; the skeletons (as did the recently shown vampires) are entirely in the same style as the previous Vampire Counts figures.

Thematically, I would hate that fact - the idea that this new setting, formed after the destruction of the previous one, and where countless years are supposed to have passed, where civilisations rose and fell, that setting has evolved to have people clad and equipped exactly the same way as the "present" timeline of the previous setting, that's just ridiculous... But thankfully, I'm entirely planning to just envision this game as taking place in or near good ol' Sylvania or to use the miniatures for Mordheim and other projects, so I'm actually very happy of the match and the aesthetic qualities of many of these figures.

Speaking of, the Wight King is pretty pretty too...

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/3y9gu3zvAsYWAy92.jpg)

And other new thingies for those who haven't seen them: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/20/warhammer-preview-online-lords-of-the-mortal-realms/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. White on February 20, 2021, 11:22:55 PM
Quote from: powerfrog99 on February 20, 2021, 09:13:31 PM
I am quite flattened by the new quest minis that have been revealed sor far  :o

In particular the skeletion warriors are top notch I think.

Hard to wait for the rest to be shown...

Everything has been shown. Both on Warhammer Community today and the Cursed City website.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on February 20, 2021, 11:45:05 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on February 20, 2021, 10:39:26 PM
Well, it helps that (besides the steampunk dwarven hero), they're hardly Age of Sigmar stylistically! The undead could mostly have been released for Warhammer Fantasy/Mordheim; the skeletons (as did the recently shown vampires) are entirely in the same style as the previous Vampire Counts figures.

Thematically, I would hate that fact - the idea that this new setting, formed after the destruction of the previous one, and where countless years are supposed to have passed, where civilisations rose and fell, that setting has evolved to have people clad and equipped exactly the same way as the "present" timeline of the previous setting, that's just ridiculous... But thankfully, I'm entirely planning to just envision this game as taking place in or near good ol' Sylvania or to use the miniatures for Mordheim and other projects, so I'm actually very happy of the match and the aesthetic qualities of many of these figures.

Speaking of, the Wight King is pretty pretty too...

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/3y9gu3zvAsYWAy92.jpg)

And other new thingies for those who haven't seen them: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/20/warhammer-preview-online-lords-of-the-mortal-realms/

That Wight King is beautiful
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 21, 2021, 04:33:39 AM
Yes, that Wight King is very similar to the old metal one, but revived a little.
I too am a big fan of the new Warhammer quest figures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on February 21, 2021, 03:53:08 PM
Someone at GW is really cranking out lovely skeletons at a record pace!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on February 22, 2021, 05:54:22 PM
Whilst browsing my lead mountain, I discovered some Valhallan figures.
Searching online and I've got the following:

I've no idea why I would have them, but any ideas on how much they would be worth secondhand?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 23, 2021, 02:56:47 AM
Depending on the figure, can be worth up to $10-15 a pop.  Basic troopers occasionally a bit less.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on February 23, 2021, 01:18:50 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 23, 2021, 02:56:47 AM
Depending on the figure, can be worth up to $10-15 a pop.  Basic troopers occasionally a bit less.

Thanks for the response. Guess I'll be selling them then!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 23, 2021, 01:56:23 PM
Quote from: nozza_uk on February 22, 2021, 05:54:22 PM
  • Valhallan Lieutenant
  • Valhallan Sergeant  with Chainsword
  • 3 x Valhallan with flamer

I only bought some of these late last year!  :)

For singles, I paid about £5-6 for the flamers, £4-5 for the Sergeant, and £6-9 for the Lieutenant. Postage was typically about £1.50 per figure on top. Normally though, I bought a job lot of figures to keep postage costs down, and it's a good way to get most of what you need for a fair price - after a few larger lots, I then go fishing for small number of loose figs to round out what I have into complete squads.

If you search on eBay, and set the filters to "sold items", it shows what people have paid for them. It's also notable to see the difference between what stuff sells for, and what some sellers on ebay ask for.  ;)

One more thing; keep in mind that the flamer and sergeant came in the old initial-release squad box (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4HzRuSjP4uA/W9sahCiP5xI/AAAAAAAAIoE/bCPPFCvVNMkiY9cbLCKzaVxPPokUR3i6wCLcBGAs/s1600/Ice%2BWarriors.JPG), so are quite common.
The Lt was available on his own, and also sold more than you'd expect since people bought and painted them up as Commissars for other Imperial Guard regiments too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Donpimpom on February 23, 2021, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on February 20, 2021, 10:39:26 PM
I'm entirely planning to just envision this game as taking place in or near good ol' Sylvania or to use the miniatures for Mordheim and other project
Exactly, same kind of thinking here.
It's a long time the lore of GW main fantasy game is gone in a direction that I find extremely boring.
I look at their assortment from the perspective to feed my old games, this is why I will get this new WQ as soon is released, even if I don't play the game I have a alternative uses for all the models and the tiles
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on February 23, 2021, 02:31:14 PM
Quote from: nozza_uk on February 22, 2021, 05:54:22 PM
Whilst browsing my lead mountain, I discovered some Valhallan figures.
Searching online and I've got the following:
  • Valhallan Lieutenant
  • Valhallan Sergeant  with Chainsword
  • 3 x Valhallan with flamer

I've no idea why I would have them, but any ideas on how much they would be worth secondhand?
As mentioned above, under the "advanced" search settings on ebay, you can check a box for older listings: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/ebayadvsearch
"Sold" obviously gives you the prices products sold for, while "completed" will show both sold and unsold products (green and black price tags respectively), so you can see what prices were perhaps unacceptably high too!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Phyllion on March 20, 2021, 03:21:50 AM
Quote from: Jack Hooligan on February 20, 2021, 05:32:19 PM
Yeah, this set would be great to get someone started with a blanchitsu old world style Rangers of Shadowdeep game.

I fancied getting this set (first GW purchase in many a year) and trying my hand at Blanchitsu. That suggestion for a rule set sets that idea in stone...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 22, 2021, 08:26:32 PM
To be fair to GW the new Vampire stuff is very nice
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McYellowbelly on March 22, 2021, 09:20:08 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on March 22, 2021, 08:26:32 PM
To be fair to GW the new Vampire stuff is very nice

That is nice, is it released yet?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on March 23, 2021, 12:35:40 AM
That vampire is a beautiful miniature!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 23, 2021, 03:44:19 AM
I do like the new undead stuff as well. Might be resurrecting my old army... sorry.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 25, 2021, 09:55:19 PM
Quote from: McYellowbelly on March 22, 2021, 09:20:08 PM
That is nice, is it released yet?

Not yet 'coming soon' apparently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on March 27, 2021, 10:34:43 AM
That new vampire looks great clean uncluttered miniature just had email come through with the high elves or what ever the fancy name they are called now , soon as I seen them I was like wtf! o_o And what mind bending substances were the designers on  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on March 27, 2021, 10:48:11 AM
Quote from: 3Fingers2 on March 27, 2021, 10:34:43 AM
That new vampire looks great clean uncluttered miniature just had email come through with the high elves or what ever the fancy name they are called now , soon as I seen them I was like wtf! o_o And what mind bending substances were the designers on  lol

I couldn't agree more when are they going to realise that less really is more in miniatures design. I loved the early Primaris marine sculpts for the same reason, but they have gone over the top on the newer releases (mostly). Oh well can we include faff and over detail in the same breath as scale creep?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 27, 2021, 07:47:50 PM
Yeah, I looked at some of those Elves (or whatever they're called now) and couldn't imagine how I would even begin to paint them.

It did give me new respect for their in-house painters, especially painting to that standard to what I imagine is a pretty tight dealine :o

It took me about an hour to clean and assemble one Van Saar Necromunda figure the other day. The preparation alone on those Elves would take me weeks :(

I do like the waterfall thingy though. I could see that being useful for all sorts of things :D

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120210035_LRLShrineLuminorLead.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on March 27, 2021, 08:01:11 PM
Quote from: zemjw on March 27, 2021, 07:47:50 PM
Yeah, I looked at some of those Elves (or whatever they're called now) and couldn't imagine how I would even begin to paint them.

It did give me new respect for their in-house painters, especially painting to that standard to what I imagine is a pretty tight dealine :o

It took me about an hour to clean and assemble one Van Saar Necromunda figure the other day. The preparation alone on those Elves would take me weeks :(

I do like the waterfall thingy though. I could see that being useful for all sorts of things :D

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120210035_LRLShrineLuminorLead.jpg)

It looks like it could be used for a Yakult advert lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 30, 2021, 02:35:02 PM
I was looking at the Lumineth Realm-Lords. To get quite honest, since I don't have much experience with plastic models, I am fearful that the pikes, spears, intricate bows and such, will break with very little handling.

Could someone chime in here? Is my fear unfounded or not?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 30, 2021, 02:59:48 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 30, 2021, 02:35:02 PM
I was looking at the Lumineth Realm-Lords. To get quite honest, since I don't have much experience with plastic models, I am fearful that the pikes, spears, intricate bows and such, will break with very little handling.

Could someone chime in here? Is my fear unfounded or not?

Honestly Ray, those sorts of parts take much more punishment than you might think. The bits I find *do* get damaged somewhat easily are anything that could reasonably be described as "dangly" or "spiky". I dread removing such parts from the sprue and cleaning them up, as this is the stage of the model when they are most likely to break.

As an example, I have a Khorne warrior who had a long flowing tassle hung from a ring linked to the pommel of his axe (example here (https://www.forbiddengaming.co.uk/ekmps/shops/ce9f1d/images/skullcrusher-head-hunter-axe-6580-p.jpg)). It was a great detail and looked reasonably sturdy, but sadly the ring was the weak point, and it snapped as I was cleaning up the part after removing it from the sprue. I ended up replacing the ring with one made from fine brass rod, and pinned it to the pommel of the axe - fixed, and much stronger than before.

I guess if it's something that would be a weak point on a metal model, the same would generally be true in plastic; and the options/repairs would also be the same.

However, when it comes to spears and the like, the length actually gives the part some flexibility, so as long as you're not very rough with them, they briefly bend slightly and then "spring back" should you happen to catch them with your sleeve or drop them for example. For example, I found some 30 year old plastic skellies rolling around loose in a box the other day whilst tidying, and the spears were all in perfect condition!  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on March 30, 2021, 09:18:33 PM
Reported price for cursed city is £120 - Which is fair given the amount in the box.

The price certainly made the child in me wince at the thought of how many 50p's i'd need to save to buy a copy, then I remembered I'm an adult. Then I my winced at how many 50p's I need to save up to buy a copy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 30, 2021, 09:52:26 PM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 30, 2021, 02:35:02 PM
I was looking at the Lumineth Realm-Lords. To get quite honest, since I don't have much experience with plastic models, I am fearful that the pikes, spears, intricate bows and such, will break with very little handling.

Could someone chime in here? Is my fear unfounded or not?

They are usually pretty chunky and robust, much more so than resin models, and far easier to put together than metal models.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on March 31, 2021, 09:55:38 AM
@Major_Gilbear - Thanks for the comprehensive response.

Indeed, I have found the more tiny bits to be more prone to breakage in construction as well. I have also found that when dropping plastic models it is best to just let them fall and not try to grab them. As Sir_Theo mentioned, the spears and pikes appear to be fairly chunky so it would seem my fears are perhaps misplaced.

Thanks all for the response.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on March 31, 2021, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: Ray Rivers on March 31, 2021, 09:55:38 AM
@Major_Gilbear - Thanks for the comprehensive response.

Indeed, I have found the more tiny bits to be more prone to breakage in construction as well. I have also found that when dropping plastic models it is best to just let them fall and not try to grab them. As Sir_Theo mentioned, the spears and pikes appear to be fairly chunky so it would seem my fears are perhaps misplaced.

Thanks all for the response.

I've certainly done more damage to myself and the model when trying to catch a falling plastic model than would have been done by just letting it hit the floor.
Spears and banners are fine, what bothers me are the tiny little dangly bits like pouches, charms and spikes - those break off and can't be found or repaired easily.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 03, 2021, 04:39:48 PM
I was going to post that Cursed City is up for pre-order on the GW web site - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=2512876101+3206404541)

However, it's already "no longer available online". There's no option to set up a callback email, so presumably if you didn't order within the first few minutes of getting the email, you'll need to look elsewhere.

Wayland and others will presumably get a stock, but I don't remember seeing anything about it being a limited edition run.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 03, 2021, 07:25:13 PM
Quote from: zemjw on April 03, 2021, 04:39:48 PM
I was going to post that Cursed City is up for pre-order on the GW web site - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=2512876101+3206404541)

However, it's already "no longer available online". There's no option to set up a callback email, so presumably if you didn't order within the first few minutes of getting the email, you'll need to look elsewhere.

Wayland and others will presumably get a stock, but I don't remember seeing anything about it being a limited edition run.
It won't be a limited edition run: the Quest titles stay in the range for a couple of years, and they'll keep them in production for as long as they have plans to release expansions (2-2.5 years for Blackstone Fortress).

It's just that GW has been having production issues (mainly covid-related I think, amplified for kits that require additional resources they don't produce in-house like the tiles or what have you in these boxed games). So the first wave may sell out quickly, but a few weeks/months from now there will be more; it won't be gone permanently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 03, 2021, 11:29:12 PM
I've been sorely temnpted by it but at NZ$400, it's not something that I can really afford. 2 months of power bills for a board game?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on April 04, 2021, 12:27:05 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 03, 2021, 11:29:12 PM
I've been sorely temnpted by it but at NZ$400, it's not something that I can really afford. 2 months of power bills for a board game?

I think the $390 one comes with the novel also.
Just the game is $345 and would assume Mighty Ape will have a bit of a discount on that price also... so it might be worth taking a look there. That's what I'll be doing.

I'm assuming that it will sell out faster than you can say "sell out" but hopefully that will just be the first wave and more stock will come through sooner rather than later.

Still a bit of coin though - gotta love the NZ tax on GW stuff...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 04, 2021, 06:23:14 AM
True, Mightyape will probably be a good 10-20% off. I don't think it is the tax though. It is GW's policy of actually selling things more expensive down south. You're not allowed to purchase through UK or US dealers which would still be cheaper. I heard they had some excuse of warehousing down this way (because they don't have warehouses everywhere  ::) ) Might be wrong on that though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on April 04, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
We missed it but will get it later on. Besides, we order on the discount from the UK and the preorders were limited to 1 only ( to prevent scalping ) so yes, patience, patience.
Enough kits to make and models to paint over here  ;).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Phyllion on April 04, 2021, 08:21:01 PM
Ordered Cursed City, first GW purchase for many years other than a couple of blood bowl teams. I’m sure I’ll get round to painting it...sometime.

Next, to look at Rangers of Shadowdeep...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on April 13, 2021, 06:28:11 AM
Quote from: Phyllion on April 04, 2021, 08:21:01 PM
Ordered Cursed City,...
Same. I have most of the Blackstone Fortress stuff; just missing Traitor Command which is like dried tigers penis these days. ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 13, 2021, 07:27:32 AM
Checked a couple of hours after it was up for sale. Sold out. Sigh, another curse of down under I imagine (haven't checked on GW official though)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on April 15, 2021, 07:54:36 AM
I can't say I'm too excited about Cursed City myself (although those zombies are right lovely in their way) but that Lord Kroak...I don't need BOTH of my kidneys to live, surely?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 15, 2021, 08:15:12 AM
Is there a new Kroak?
I'm mostly interested in the undead minis rather than the game. I might pick up the new underwrolds starter set and the vampire band though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on April 15, 2021, 08:45:02 AM
Yeah OK, GW has impressed me with the new Lord Kroak. Fair play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on April 15, 2021, 09:34:34 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 15, 2021, 08:15:12 AM
Is there a new Kroak?
I'm mostly interested in the undead minis rather than the game. I might pick up the new underwrolds starter set and the vampire band though.

Oh yes, there's a new Kroak...well not yet, but soon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on April 15, 2021, 10:18:16 AM
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/dUUu0QODxfg1kHM6-846x846.jpg)

I don't really need this... but I want one  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 15, 2021, 10:23:47 AM
It looks to be a lovely sculpt and a cool mini diorama...but I'm not a fan of these massive minis as gaming pieces. Still, a lovely mini.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 15, 2021, 10:36:13 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on April 15, 2021, 10:23:47 AM
It looks to be a lovely sculpt and a cool mini diorama...but I'm not a fan of these massive minis as gaming pieces. Still, a lovely mini.

Yeah, they look nice and all, but nice as display cabinet pieces. I wonder if there will be a clear aesthetic divide between the rumoured 'Oldhammer' ranges and the Age of Sigmar stuff, with a deliberate return to simplicity and understated models to tap into that market.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 15, 2021, 10:58:31 AM
Impressive as it is, I still prefer Kremlo as a miniature (a Perry classic).

Quote from: Cubs on April 15, 2021, 10:36:13 AM
I wonder if there will be a clear aesthetic divide between the rumoured 'Oldhammer' ranges and the Age of Sigmar stuff, with a deliberate return to simplicity and understated models to tap into that market.

Will we see his like again?

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eTRAuV1B_7U/T0FA1NW65YI/AAAAAAAAHEA/UfW9eqw6Kb8/s640/kremlo.png)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on April 15, 2021, 02:04:38 PM
Normally I am not a fan of big pieces like that for a character. Lord Kroak being what he is, is an exception for me.

That said I would welcome more simple sculpts... and when I say simple I mean simple like the latest Victrix sculpts not simple like Warhammer Quest.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 15, 2021, 02:24:12 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on April 15, 2021, 10:58:31 AM
Impressive as it is, I still prefer Kremlo as a miniature (a Perry classic).

Will we see his like again?


Well now, I just so happen to have a bunch of figures as a commission to paint for that scenario! Should be done over the summer some time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 15, 2021, 02:39:02 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 15, 2021, 02:24:12 PM
Well now, I just so happen to have a bunch of figures as a commission to paint for that scenario! Should be done over the summer some time.

Aha! Excellent news! I trust we'll be seeing them here!

Slann skin colours always lead me to paralysis by analysis, though I aim to eventually continue with the blue/red eyes/orange hands and feet combo that I've used in the past.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 15, 2021, 04:36:37 PM
I can appreciate the technical artistry that goes into a piece like that, but GW has long since "cranked it to 11" - with art coming before usefulness.  That's a model beyond the budget of half of GW's gamers...and beyond the painting skill of the remaining half. :D

When I see a model like this, I put on my "40K" goggles and then picture it unpainted with 3-4 pieces broken off being shoved around a table at the local store.  Also, I have a strong disdain for models, in general, which are difficult to transport.

So, while it's a cool miniature(?) and I look forward to seeing a handful of people paint it up gorgeously for painting competitions, I think it's pretty garbage as a gaming piece.  I feel like they skip the hugely important step of thinking "someone is going to have to paint this and put it in a box and carry it around".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on April 15, 2021, 04:48:39 PM
Quote from: Elbows on April 15, 2021, 04:36:37 PM
I can appreciate the technical artistry that goes into a piece like that, but GW has long since "cranked it to 11" - with art coming before usefulness.  That's a model beyond the budget of half of GW's gamers...and beyond the painting skill of the remaining half. :D

When I see a model like this, I put on my "40K" goggles and then picture it unpainted with 3-4 pieces broken off being shoved around a table at the local store.  Also, I have a strong disdain for models, in general, which are difficult to transport.

So, while it's a cool miniature(?) and I look forward to seeing a handful of people paint it up gorgeously for painting competitions, I think it's pretty garbage as a gaming piece.  I feel like they skip the hugely important step of thinking "someone is going to have to paint this and put it in a box and carry it around".

Maybe it's an elaborate long term plan to kill tournament gaming by making miniatures impossible to transport.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on April 15, 2021, 05:23:50 PM
Quote from: Elbows on April 15, 2021, 04:36:37 PM
That's a model beyond the budget of half of GW's gamers...and beyond the painting skill of the remaining half.

That's an interesting point. The problem (such as it is! ;)) with things like this is that they're not easily done "half decently". I've often noticed that really spectacular wargames tables often don't feature figures that are anything remarkable close up. I've seen loads of ancients games that have looked brilliant, but which features figures that - on inspection - were relatively crudely painted, often with extremely heavy black lining. And yet they were perfectly painted for the job (looking good from a couple of metres' distance).

Now, I've seen that sort of thing most often with 28mm ancients and medievals, but of course it could work well with any genre. But it's quite difficult to achieve, I think, with very elaborate and very detailed models - especially if they're huge.

And I think that's a bit of a shame. I've very rarely seen that brilliant two-metre effect from modern GW plastics, and I think it's probably hard to achieve because of all the detail and clutter. So you get a kind of polarisation: stuff that's really good and stuff that can't hope to compete. By contrast, the kind of simple, heavily black-lined figures I'm thnking of can compete really well with stuff that's technically better painted (and might even look better from a distance). I wonder if that's a bit of a dying art, in part because of the baroqueness of the miniatures and in part because those who can't paint particularly well are straining to emulate those who can.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 15, 2021, 07:40:26 PM
I don't mind in the least that weird, huge, complicated and beautiful pieces that push the boundaries of sculpture are being made, so long as they're not the only things being made.

Issues with the more ordinary troops being fragile is more worrying, like those horsetails on the chaos warhammers a few posts back. At least those are (relatively) fixable.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on April 15, 2021, 08:16:30 PM
Quote from: Elbows on April 15, 2021, 04:36:37 PM
I can appreciate the technical artistry that goes into a piece like that, but GW has long since "cranked it to 11" - with art coming before usefulness.  That's a model beyond the budget of half of GW's gamers...and beyond the painting skill of the remaining half. :D

When I see a model like this, I put on my "40K" goggles and then picture it unpainted with 3-4 pieces broken off being shoved around a table at the local store.  Also, I have a strong disdain for models, in general, which are difficult to transport.

So, while it's a cool miniature(?) and I look forward to seeing a handful of people paint it up gorgeously for painting competitions, I think it's pretty garbage as a gaming piece.  I feel like they skip the hugely important step of thinking "someone is going to have to paint this and put it in a box and carry it around".

Fair points about durability and ease of transport.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Kitsune on April 17, 2021, 04:27:56 PM
So, it’s been announced that Cursed City isn’t going to be available any more, so whoever didn’t get one, won’t be able to. Hmmmm.....I could have bought on release, but as they said specifically that this wasn’t ltd edition and I wanted to read some reviews, I kept my money in my pocket. Oh GW, same as ever with their FOMO antics
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 18, 2021, 11:23:47 AM
There was initially nothing to indicate the release would be limited, so while I'm happy to criticize GW for... anything really, this isn't really a typical case of profiting from FOMO.

It's still unclear if anything happened to change the plans (seeing how the last Quest box, Blackstone Fortress, was a basic range item available for 2.5 years) nor 100% guaranteed it will be gone (Warhammer Community has been silent, there are only some comments on Facebook pages, which don't rule out further production runs, merely say they aren't planned at the moment, or words to that effect).

Certainly a bit of a mess for a big release and a long-hyped one at that.

Main positive I see is that a more traditionally fantasy-styled release has apparently been massively popular, which seems promising for future products. More standard skellies and gritty witch hunters instead of flying fox-headed Elven archers or golden Space-Marines-but-in-fantasy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on April 18, 2021, 12:46:22 PM
GW and their cryptic ways never cease to surprise me.... but to be clear, not in a good way. While GW does make some things I like they are not a company I trust because of their lack of transparency.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on April 18, 2021, 02:07:27 PM
Quote from: Coenus Scaldingus on April 18, 2021, 11:23:47 AM
There was initially nothing to indicate the release would be limited, so while I'm happy to criticize GW for... anything really, this isn't really a typical case of profiting from FOMO.

It's still unclear if anything happened to change the plans (seeing how the last Quest box, Blackstone Fortress, was a basic range item available for 2.5 years) nor 100% guaranteed it will be gone (Warhammer Community has been silent, there are only some comments on Facebook pages, which don't rule out further production runs, merely say they aren't planned at the moment, or words to that effect).

Certainly a bit of a mess for a big release and a long-hyped one at that.

Main positive I see is that a more traditionally fantasy-styled release has apparently been massively popular, which seems promising for future products. More standard skellies and gritty witch hunters instead of flying fox-headed Elven archers or golden Space-Marines-but-in-fantasy.

Bat headed  elves ? Sounds chaos corrupted  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew_McGuire on April 18, 2021, 02:10:01 PM
I watched a YouTube video which quoted the GW statement and made a reasonably plausible if not authoritative effort at interpreting it, to the effect that the debacle is most likely the result of the excessive cost of importing components from China since Brexit, making a release such as Cursed City highly unprofitable for them.

It should be added that other theories are available, most of them neither more nor less plausible, but a deliberate intent on GW’s part to frustrate their customer base seems unlikely, to me at least.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on April 18, 2021, 04:23:08 PM
It appears to me that part of the reason for the anger of the GW fan base (which I do not count myself as being part of these days) is not just the unexpected sell-through, but the very swift and thorough erasure of the game from the GW site.  I couldn't even find the earlier teaser articles on the Community page, much less product listings.  That may be a bit of an overreaction - the actual Cursed City website is still up and operating, which seems an odd thing to overlook if they're trying to "Squat" the game - but it's being seen as proof of villainy on GW's part.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on April 18, 2021, 04:44:12 PM
Quote from: Chief Lackey Rich on April 18, 2021, 04:23:08 PM
It appears to me that part of the reason for the anger of the GW fan base (which I do not count myself as being part of these days) is not just the unexpected sell-through, but the very swift and thorough erasure of the game from the GW site.  I couldn't even find the earlier teaser articles on the Community page, much less product listings.
All articles are still there from what I can see: https://www.warhammer-community.com/?s=cursed+city
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolnikan on April 19, 2021, 01:54:43 PM
As someone who was interested in getting this set, but who was waiting for some reviews of the game and the actual minis, this is quite a disappointment. But then again, more money for other figures!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on April 19, 2021, 06:30:25 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/19/what-do-you-mean-not-all-beast-snaggas-ride-squigs/?utm_source=CUSTOMERS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=GW_19th_April_Talon_&utm_content=&utm_term=&m_i=OgudvILn_v2M0BPu5IxP_ziJzj%2BFn8yTrJkp0eJVCrwU2_Kl4Ag3AyREZm8_jnC0pgDtPmbfqsCJxKeg_U9SFBn48dstFl
The orks seem to be changing since I last looked quite like the  look of these compared to the ones with the long vertical heads might actually purchase some .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on May 08, 2021, 10:16:25 PM
Tanith Ist and Only to be released character, models so far as I know. Ambivalent about this,the last three novels have been decidedly ordinary.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on May 09, 2021, 10:37:55 AM
Quote from: Dolnikan on April 19, 2021, 01:54:43 PM
As someone who was interested in getting this set, but who was waiting for some reviews of the game and the actual minis, this is quite a disappointment. But then again, more money for other figures!

Yeah, same over here. If they don't even allow for the possibility to have one "made to order" like they usually do in their stores it's up to them. I bought in quite a few miniature kickstarters instead so no regrets over here.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 30, 2021, 12:53:43 AM
I like the new style of orcs (sorry orruks) they have made. Not so large a head. Not sure how it fits with all their lore etc but the minis are nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on May 30, 2021, 01:37:41 AM
Much prefer these new orcs to any previous GW orcs of the last few years - they feel much closer to the older citadel style - all gangly limbs and long droopy faces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on May 30, 2021, 08:20:52 AM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on May 30, 2021, 01:37:41 AM
Much prefer these new orcs to any previous GW orcs of the last few years - they feel much closer to the older citadel style - all gangly limbs and long droopy faces.


Yes, they're loads better - with some nods to both the old Perry orcs and the Kev Adams ones, I think:

(https://spruesandbrewsblog.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/img_7228.jpg)

And the hobgoblins are quite interesting too. With both lots, they're making a virtue out of the long, non-human torsos:

(https://preview.redd.it/ehlifkrzi3271.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=d580786bf86bda8c8be5c9dee2d6350cbbb24c79)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 30, 2021, 10:28:00 AM
I dunno. An improvement on the last couple of decades of Orcs, certainly and I do like the slimmer limbs and the generally more subdued feel to the designs. Less is more. But GW designers have an obsession with dangling stuff hanging sharply downwards ... it's odd. No armour or clothing on the torso (which seems oddly thick) but for goodness' sake pile it up on the shoulders! Maybe it's the robotic painting style but I'm not feeling it on these.

The Hobgoblins ... again, some nice stuff there - I do like the faces, the slim limbs and attempt to move them away from generic Greenskins with a design that ties them in together (perhaps a bit too much). But overall, with the thick torso again and stubby legs, that looks weird to me. They look like someone's dangling their pet hamster so it's stood on its hind legs. What are they armed with there, daggers and hand grenades? I always thought Hobgoblins looked best when they had the Asian designs, with hordes of wolf riders taking the place of Mongol riders in the Warhammer world. What exactly is their niche, because it doesn't say anything to me yet? These guys look half dressed and upside-down - let's have a strip of armour down our chest, but leave everything else except our metal pockets (for keeping more grenades in presumably) and of course some useless dangly stuff (curtain cords in their case). As with the Orcs, no-one's got a scabbard to keep their knife in, no-one has a purse or a food bag or even any real clothes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on May 30, 2021, 10:34:03 AM
I would echo Cubs on these, he has better articulated what I was thinking.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Atheling on May 30, 2021, 10:34:47 AM
They do look pretty good I have to admit!

Would there be enough variation to make an Oldhammer (3rd to 6th Ed) army?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ogrob on May 30, 2021, 10:37:09 AM
I really liked everything there. I was already sold on the winged Stormcast hero, and love the orcs and hobgobs. This will probably be my first GW starter box purchase since 6th edition Warhammer. Still not playing their rule systems though ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on May 30, 2021, 10:50:06 AM
Quote from: Cubs on May 30, 2021, 10:28:00 AM
But overall, with the thick torso again and stubby legs, that looks weird to me. They look like someone's dangling their pet hamster so it's stood on its hind legs.

Ha! That's hard to unsee!

They remind me a bit of Tolkien's description of the Woses:

Quote
[Before] them on the ground sat a strange squat shape of a man, gnarled as an old stone, and the hairs of his scanty beard straggled on his lumpy chin like dry moss. He was short-legged and fat-armed, thick and stumpy, and clad only with grass about his waist.

All your points on the equipment, etc., are bang on. That's what's so great about the old Perry orcs: you feel they're going about some nefarious business that involves the contents of their pouches, the liquor in their flasks and the odd severed head.

That said, though, these orcs are the first from GW in - what - decades that I can imagine buying to use in a D&D game. Mind you, that's before we know how big they are ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on May 30, 2021, 12:05:42 PM
 I really like the style of the new Orc's and Hobgoblins.The orc's like others have said do hint at the older ranges by the Perry's and Kev Adams.They also remind me of the old Rackham Orc's.
 The crossbow armed one's look really nice.As does the larger bolt thrower that was shown at the end.
 Will be interesting to see where they go with this and the Hobgoblins.The curtain tassles may just be ropes for tying up prisoners.It does mention that in the background they shared.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 30, 2021, 12:09:45 PM
The Beast-Skewer wouldn't be up to the job of monster slaying as it's not mobile enough...should be mounted on a beast of some sort.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on May 30, 2021, 08:24:29 PM
I'm sure we'll see some really nice alternative ( grimdark? ) paintjobs on those models in the near future. Some of those figs I like, some not ( yet ). Chariot and Bolt Thrower - if affordable I'll get, the leaders not, the troops,  maybe. Think the Sigmarite armor ( plates & scales ) is an improvement upon the older style, les 40K-ish...
But hey, chances are it will be sold out in under 5 minutes with a made to order in about 6 months, if we're lucky  lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 31, 2021, 06:28:26 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on May 30, 2021, 12:09:45 PM
The Beast-Skewer wouldn't be up to the job of monster slaying as it's not mobile enough...should be mounted on a beast of some sort.
I agree there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dentatus on May 31, 2021, 10:01:54 PM
I like the new orks - they look more dangerous than the usual cartoony ones - but I'm not jotting them on the Must Have list.
The Cursed City roll out was a let down for me. There I was, ready to take the plunge. Went even to the GW site to pre-order and everything. Only to get.... clotheslined.
Recovered from my disappointment and took it as a sign from the miniature gods to chip away at the Unpainted Mountain instead.
(or spend my hobby $$$ elsewhere)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 01, 2021, 01:35:49 AM
Quote from: Dentatus on May 31, 2021, 10:01:54 PM
The Cursed City roll out was a let down for me. There I was, ready to take the plunge. Went even to the GW site to pre-order and everything. Only to get.... clotheslined.
Recovered from my disappointment and took it as a sign from the miniature gods to chip away at the Unpainted Mountain instead.
(or spend my hobby $$$ elsewhere)

Same here, decided to direct more energy to Rangers of Shadow Deep.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on June 04, 2021, 11:28:28 AM
Not sure about the Greenskins. I love how they look...but they just don't look 'Games Workshop' to me. It's such a massive step away from their well known look and feel, it feels like a whole different company is doing these. And with this step I assume other ranges will be massively restyled too? Otherwise the range's style will be quite incoherent.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on June 04, 2021, 02:24:20 PM
Perhaps GW is trying to evolve an AoS aesthetic that will be different from Warhammer Fantasy in anticipation of its return.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 04, 2021, 02:57:47 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on June 04, 2021, 11:28:28 AM
Not sure about the Greenskins. I love how they look...but they just don't look 'Games Workshop' to me. It's such a massive step away from their well known look and feel, it feels like a whole different company is doing these.

I think there are some very clear echoes of classic GW tropes:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rzcrQVd0ui0/Velg3DtoJmI/AAAAAAAAE7A/5wzwepYTfyQ/s640/O1.jpg)

(From the Eldritch Epistles blog - Perry Citadel orc painted and converted by Kev Adams)

Or this classic orc (https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=112937.msg1542589#msg1542589) (painted brilliantly here by Nicklas P).

Quote from: Rick W. on June 04, 2021, 02:24:20 PM
Perhaps GW is trying to evolve an AoS aesthetic that will be different from Warhammer Fantasy in anticipation of its return.

I was thinking almost the opposite: perhaps they're harking back to the Old World stuff (antlered orc helmets, big red faces on shields) to lay some ground for the 'new' Old World.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 04, 2021, 03:18:00 PM
It looks to me like they're basing their new Orcs on the Hobbit movie Orcs - they have flatter faces, smaller mouths, smaller, narrower eyes. The classic Orcs had deeper eye sockets, more pronounced jaws and generally stronger bone structure. These Orcs look more like the old Half-Orcs to me. And the more I look at the odd creases in the thick torso, the worse I think they are. They're obviously trying to depict the shape of musculature, but have gone for thin skin wrinkles instead, like they're wearing a comedy T-shirt with printed muscles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on June 04, 2021, 06:42:58 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on June 04, 2021, 02:57:47 PM
I think there are some very clear echoes of classic GW tropes:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rzcrQVd0ui0/Velg3DtoJmI/AAAAAAAAE7A/5wzwepYTfyQ/s640/O1.jpg)

(From the Eldritch Epistles blog - Perry Citadel orc painted and converted by Kev Adams)

Or this classic orc (https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=112937.msg1542589#msg1542589) (painted brilliantly here by Nicklas P).

I was thinking almost the opposite: perhaps they're harking back to the Old World stuff (antlered orc helmets, big red faces on shields) to lay some ground for the 'new' Old World.

Echoes, sure… but different. Like Seraphon to the classic GW Lizardmen. Similar in some ways but otherwise different.

And yeah, I got a feeling of some old school GW influence but also the Orc designs from the Hobbit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lawful Evil on June 05, 2021, 09:19:00 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on June 01, 2021, 01:35:49 AM
Same here, decided to direct more energy to Rangers of Shadow Deep.

I'd love to use the orcs FOR RoSD!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Captain Blood on June 05, 2021, 10:17:32 AM
I like the faces. Much prefer these to the classic comical GW orc look of the previous three decades. These at least look like they’re meant to be evil, nasty fuckers, rather than entertaining comic caricatures.

Don’t like the overall design vibe though. It looks confused. Way too many different and conflicting cultural influences and references in the wardrobe department. I’m with Cubs - too many pointless dangly bits and overly fussy taradiddles.

Still, they’re distinctive, which at least is a step up from what has gone before.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 05, 2021, 12:09:02 PM
What with the grenades and what seem to be runes on the banner, the hobgoblins might be paving the way for a return of the Chaos Dwarfs - or whatever they will call them now. Wonder if the classic high hat will reappear - it would at the very least deserve a cameo appearance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 05, 2021, 02:03:02 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on June 05, 2021, 12:09:02 PM
Wonder if the classic high hat will reappear - it would at the very least deserve a cameo appearance.

They could take a cue from 'Cat in the Hat', and have a pile of successively smaller Chaos Dwarves hidden under the hat, each wearing another hat that conceals another Dwarf.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on June 05, 2021, 08:59:22 PM
Quote from: Cubs on June 05, 2021, 02:03:02 PM
They could take a cue from 'Cat in the Hat', and have a pile of successively smaller Chaos Dwarves hidden under the hat, each wearing another hat that conceals another Dwarf.
Now I have a vision of  matrioshka Chaos dwarfs... or rather, hatrioshaka  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Bloggard on June 09, 2021, 05:06:02 PM
I'm seeing some concern about the colour scheme chosen for the hob-goblins on other forums (tga etc) and I think rightly so, for reasons I've alluded to in other threads here.

otherwise I think they're very well done, on their own terms. kind of like the sort of pickelhaube helmet-y thing the hobs seem to have got going.

then I start seeing the media for a lot of their recent 40k product - books and figures. And I have to shake my head at the staggering far-right fetishism that it's very hard not to read into the 'good guys' presentation (I had kind of hoped they were getting away from that sort of thing, if in a subtle way).
If it's accidental it's horrendous.
If it's not accidental ... well, then ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on June 09, 2021, 07:45:00 PM
Quote from: Bloggard on June 09, 2021, 05:06:02 PM
I'm seeing some concern about the colour scheme chosen for the hob-goblins on other forums (tga etc) and I think rightly so, for reasons I've alluded to in other threads here.

otherwise I think they're very well done, on their own terms. kind of like the sort of pickelhaube helmet-y thing the hobs seem to have got going.

then I start seeing the media for a lot of their recent 40k product - books and figures. And I have to shake my head at the staggering far-right fetishism that it's very hard not to read into the 'good guys' presentation (I had kind of hoped they were getting away from that sort of thing, if in a subtle way).
If it's accidental it's horrendous.
If it's not accidental ... well, then ...

40k is suffering from flanderisation - The more time passes, the more black and white the setting gets. Annoyingly there's still lots of interesting stuff in the  novels (guilliman being disgusted at the imperium is a cool idea) but GW seem to be leaning too hard into the idea of "good vs Bad" , possibly to appeal to a more general audience?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 09, 2021, 08:12:54 PM
I wonder if the reliance on good vs. bad is also to prevent any major upheaval as neither side is going to come out on top. Whereas exploring the shades of grey, such as Gulliman's disgust of the Imperium and the religion centred on the Emperor would inevitably lead to massive changes. No matter what GW says they don't really want to upset the status quo too much, especially after what happened when fantasy was replaced with AoS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Bloggard on June 09, 2021, 09:46:37 PM
I don't want to go on ... it's not the place for it I guess.

but ... basically I received a warhammer community newletter highighting a new 40k novel featuring 'Gaunt's ghosts' or some such ... and the illustration ... well, blimey. Pic doesn't seem to be on the main GW website, which is  a small mercy.

I do remember (I think) reading an interview with Rick Priestley where he says (effectively) that the imperium and space marines weren't supposed to be good guys ... but as far as I can see they became so pretty early on. And ... well, as I say, with some of the recent AoS stuff I had hoped GW were moving on, and at a rather important time to be doing so, with the socio-political currents which are swirling all around these days.
But apparently not.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on June 09, 2021, 10:51:22 PM
I haven't paid much attention to 40K's background since the first book, but I thought it was always clear that there were no good guys. Isn't that an essential part of the whole 'grimdark' aesthetic?

I mean, the Imperium is a vast, totalitarian empire with an Inquisition, fanatical bio-engineered super-soldiers, commissars, slave-soldiers with exploding collars and hierarchies based on racial purity (poor old beastmen at the bottom!). It's a bit of a stretch to see them as 'goodies'!

Two significant influences on the background bear this out: Judge Dredd, where the judges are only good guys if you miss the satire (or sometimes on a relative basis); and Dune, whose empire and sardakaur (the originals of the Adeptus Astartes) aren't 'goodies' either.

I suspect you can trace the 'no goodies' theme right back to Laserburn, where you had sinister Imperials fighting equally sinister Redemptionists (and a very clear Dune inspiration for both).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 09, 2021, 11:24:15 PM
It's just factions innit? Each is following their own agenda, only 'allying' with other factions if it serves their short term purpose. The Space Marines just happen to be the coolest faction for most people (with a myriad of chapters, each their own flavour, look, weaponry and agenda) and the cornerstone of the whole 40K game. I always though it was a given that 40K was meant to be a more mature setting than the fantasy world (ironically, this might be why younger gamers sometimes find it more appealing), with its imperial pomposity and xenophobic doctrine laced with lead-heavy irony. It's a worry that this might be taken at face value by some or presented as a worthy cause, but I guess it's not always easy to write relatable characters serving something utterly hateful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on June 09, 2021, 11:38:44 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on June 09, 2021, 10:51:22 PM
I haven't paid much attention to 40K's background since the first book, but I thought it was always clear that there were no good guys. Isn't that an essential part of the whole 'grimdark' aesthetic?

I mean, the Imperium is a vast, totalitarian empire with an Inquisition, fanatical bio-engineered super-soldiers, commissars, slave-soldiers with exploding collars and hierarchies based on racial purity (poor old beastmen at the bottom!). It's a bit of a stretch to see them as 'goodies'!

Two significant influences on the background bear this out: Judge Dredd, where the judges are only good guys if you miss the satire (or sometimes on a relative basis); and Dune, whose empire and sardakaur (the originals of the Adeptus Astartes) aren't 'goodies' either.

I suspect you can trace the 'no goodies' theme right back to Laserburn, where you had sinister Imperials fighting equally sinister Redemptionists (and a very clear Dune inspiration for both).

We're living in a world where Rick and Morty is ludicrously popular, with 90% of the fanbase not realising the main characters are horrible people.  People can't discern the protagonist from hero and satire is pretty much dead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on June 10, 2021, 09:03:08 AM
Bloggard, I hear you mate. I feel the same.

EDIT: I deleted the rest of my original post as I believe I may have gotten too political.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 10, 2021, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on June 09, 2021, 10:51:22 PM
I haven't paid much attention to 40K's background since the first book, but I thought it was always clear that there were no good guys. Isn't that an essential part of the whole 'grimdark' aesthetic?

I mean, the Imperium is a vast, totalitarian empire with an Inquisition, fanatical bio-engineered super-soldiers, commissars, slave-soldiers with exploding collars and hierarchies based on racial purity (poor old beastmen at the bottom!). It's a bit of a stretch to see them as 'goodies'!

Two significant influences on the background bear this out: Judge Dredd, where the judges are only good guys if you miss the satire (or sometimes on a relative basis); and Dune, whose empire and sardakaur (the originals of the Adeptus Astartes) aren't 'goodies' either.

I suspect you can trace the 'no goodies' theme right back to Laserburn, where you had sinister Imperials fighting equally sinister Redemptionists (and a very clear Dune inspiration for both).

I think 40ks grim darkness is kinda hollow beyond the visuals nowadays...it's become a bit sanitised in some ways. I don't know if that was a deliberate decision or whether it was a slow process as more and more people in the studio just don't seem to get it. I guess GW becoming increasingly commercialised has contributed too...maybe its a mix of all three. It's become a bit too slick.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Bloggard on June 10, 2021, 01:41:33 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on June 09, 2021, 10:51:22 PM
I haven't paid much attention to 40K's background since the first book, but I thought it was always clear that there were no good guys. Isn't that an essential part of the whole 'grimdark' aesthetic?
 ...

as I mentioned re: Rick Priestly, that may well have been the original intention - and theoretically, the 'nuanced' understanding of the presentation, if you read the right (excuse the word) stories etc, may still pay lip-service to that.
But it seems pretty clear to me that there's a cruder understanding that can be arrived at all too easily, and GW do little with their imagery and spiel to discourage it imo.

fun fact that many of you probably know - the old GW headquarters 'look', before they swapped a space marine statue for a stormcast thingy one (and quite probably even since the swap!) ... local taxi-cab drivers referred to it as 'the bunker', as in a well-known hidey-hole from WW2.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Bloggard on June 10, 2021, 01:54:37 PM
Quote from: Grumpy Gnome on June 10, 2021, 09:03:08 AM
Bloggard, I hear you mate. I feel the same.

EDIT: I deleted the rest of my original post as I believe I may have gotten too political.

yes, GG - prob. not the place for such discussion - but then maybe it should be, the way things are going.

bit suprised by the replies I'm reading, tbh. But I guess I should take some heart from them, and hope they're not wilful naivety, and I'm being OTT.
I'll leave it there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on June 10, 2021, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: Bloggard on June 09, 2021, 05:06:02 PM
I'm seeing some concern about the colour scheme chosen for the hob-goblins on other forums (tga etc) and I think rightly so, for reasons I've alluded to in other threads here.

otherwise I think they're very well done, on their own terms. kind of like the sort of pickelhaube helmet-y thing the hobs seem to have got going.

then I start seeing the media for a lot of their recent 40k product - books and figures. And I have to shake my head at the staggering far-right fetishism that it's very hard not to read into the 'good guys' presentation (I had kind of hoped they were getting away from that sort of thing, if in a subtle way).
If it's accidental it's horrendous.
If it's not accidental ... well, then ...

I know this has moved on slightly but 40K has always been from the very start a satire/dystopian view of humanity with an overtly fascist Imperium. 

I really don't think the higher ups at GW are pushing a fascist agenda on the gaming world.  The fascism in the setting is a deliberate choice, not to propagate that view as a system with utility in the current world but as a setting.  Kind of like how Warlord are not neo nazis for producing SS minis and the makers of Mad Max don't want to bring about a world where people have to fight for petrol dressed in S&M bondage gear.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on June 10, 2021, 03:54:47 PM
Quote from: jon_1066 on June 10, 2021, 02:53:55 PM
I know this has moved on slightly but 40K has always been from the very start a satire/dystopian view of humanity with an overtly fascist Imperium. 

I really don't think the higher ups at GW are pushing a fascist agenda on the gaming world.  The fascism in the setting is a deliberate choice, not to propagate that view as a system with utility in the current world but as a setting.  Kind of like how Warlord are not neo nazis for producing SS minis and the makers of Mad Max don't want to bring about a world where people have to fight for petrol dressed in S&M bondage gear.

I dont think its intentional, but the problem is your mixing a public that can't infer that the protagonists (ie: the impetium) can also be bad guys, whilst the head office wants to steamline it into a very easy to sell product.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on June 10, 2021, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: Bloggard on June 10, 2021, 01:54:37 PM
yes, GG - prob. not the place for such discussion - but then maybe it should be, the way things are going.

bit suprised by the replies I'm reading, tbh. But I guess I should take some heart from them, and hope they're not wilful naivety, and I'm being OTT.
I'll leave it there.

Well, that’s the challenge isn’t it? Part of me is biting my tongue because I want to express myself and my concerns after years of being gagged due to my professions. Now I am technically free to speak my mind  and I hate to leave something unaddressed because it feels like complicity.

+++deleted++++

But I want to keep to the rules of this forum and avoid putting a target on the backs of my family.

So the rest of this post was deleted and my tongue is firmly bitten again.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on June 10, 2021, 05:09:52 PM
Quote from: jetengine on June 10, 2021, 03:54:47 PM
I dont think its intentional, but the problem is your mixing a public that can't infer that the protagonists (ie: the impetium) can also be bad guys, whilst the head office wants to steamline it into a very easy to sell product.

I suppose this comes down to how much is an artist responsible for mis-interpretation of their work. 

It's kind of difficult for me to see people looking at the WH40K Imperium and thinking it looks like a good idea any more than people looking at Ork society and thinking it is a shame Orks don't get to build our airliners or that Plague marines should be our medics.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on June 10, 2021, 10:55:25 PM
Some are wannabe fascists*, others like the aesthetic on a surface level not realising how shitty it actually is, alot  are suckered by "heroic space marines" not realising that (to us) they should really be terrifying monsters with a near psychotic level of zealoutry. Remember, there are Wehraboos and those whom LOVE the Empire from Star wars a bit too much.

*I know, I know, no politics, yet its not hard to say wannabe nazis would like something that uses some of their rhetoric (even if the point is "Imperium are evil"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on June 11, 2021, 09:56:33 PM
Quote from: jon_1066 on June 10, 2021, 05:09:52 PM
I suppose this comes down to how much is an artist responsible for mis-interpretation of their work. 

It's kind of difficult for me to see people looking at the WH40K Imperium and thinking it looks like a good idea any more than people looking at Ork society and thinking it is a shame Orks don't get to build our airliners or that Plague marines should be our medics.

I know plenty of people who think the starship troopers movie is not only a serious action movie, But also an excellent idea for how to run a society. The same people also think police should be more like judge dredd and think call of duty games are politcally neutral. some people are seriously context blind when it comes to engaging with fiction. It's hard to say how much an artist needs to be aware of this, and for the most part artists will pitch their work to a set audience. GW is in the unique and awkward position of being a major british success story , the face of the industry, and the owner of a sci fi IP that is reaching star wars levels of cultural pentration. I think in a way their desire to reduce 40k to a more black and white morality comes from that, but the result is a somewhat awkward situation in which your new "good" guys have all the trappings and ideologies of bad guys.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on June 11, 2021, 10:22:29 PM
I think most people can separate fiction from reality, and the overwhelming majority of 40k fans are happy to enjoy the setting as escapism. I think the current trend of fretting about how fantasy stories will turn our children into whatever flavour of villain is an annoying throwback to the Satanic Panic of the 80s. The sort of people who take 40k so seriously as to want to model reality on it are probably so far from being a threat that a steep hill or particularly large staircase would defeat them. Just my two cents. Honestly, I think that 90% of these "40k fascists" are just shitposting meme fans, and even if not, the idea that they're a real threat in any way to society is laughable.

I hope that straddled the right side of the line in terms of forum rules.

2000AD did the "America" storyline after they realised that some of the fanbase were unironic fans of the Justice Department. A casual reminder here and there should be enough, but at the end of the day, extreme minds will always find something to latch onto - it's unfair to blame creators too much when that happens.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on June 12, 2021, 11:24:28 AM
Quote from: Gibby on June 11, 2021, 10:22:29 PM
I think most people can separate fiction from reality, and the overwhelming majority of 40k fans are happy to enjoy the setting as escapism. I think the current trend of fretting about how fantasy stories will turn our children into whatever flavour of villain is an annoying throwback to the Satanic Panic of the 80s. The sort of people who take 40k so seriously as to want to model reality on it are probably so far from being a threat that a steep hill or particularly large staircase would defeat them. Just my two cents. Honestly, I think that 90% of these "40k fascists" are just shitposting meme fans, and even if not, the idea that they're a real threat in any way to society is laughable.

I hope that straddled the right side of the line in terms of forum rules.

2000AD did the "America" storyline after they realised that some of the fanbase were unironic fans of the Justice Department. A casual reminder here and there should be enough, but at the end of the day, extreme minds will always find something to latch onto - it's unfair to blame creators too much when that happens.

Whilst I disagree with your first paragraph, you'd be right with your second if GW actually bothered. The closest you get is an occasional note of "Oh yeah, and then the Imperium destroyed a fully functioning Democracy for simply existing". 2000AD had the balls to look at their fanbase dead in the eyes and go "The Judges are horrible, horrible people you dolts, remember that" .

We need a novel from the perspective of an ordinary person on a functioning world that gets invaded by the Imperium for colonization, watch the Guard commit warcrimes because of their indoctrination, watch the worlds leaders open the hand of peace only to get gunned down, witness the brutal terror of Space Marines tearing apart any resistance and gunning down protesters. Paint it in neon letters "THE IMPERIUM IS AWFUL"

Part of the problem as well, imo,  Is the darkening of the Tau. Fans justify the Imperium with "Well its a shitty universe, so you have to act awful" but the Tau were a clear example otherwise, yes there was some odd shady elements but on the whole pretty good. Then they became a more sophisticated communist regume with mind control, dissidents dragged away in the night and sterilization.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on June 12, 2021, 11:44:26 AM
"IN THE GRIMDARKNESS OF THE FAR, FAR FUTURE - NO ONE WILL HEAR YOU SCREAM!"

Or sadly even care if you do!

Luckily it's just a game

However, my real fear for future generations when I am long dead and gone is how close is reality going to be to those envisaged in the Aliens and Blade runner/"Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep" universes?

Shudder :-[

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on June 12, 2021, 02:12:59 PM
Jetengine, I agree about the shift in the tone of the Tau lore. It turned a faction I could identify with into one I could not.

My problem with how GW presents the Imperium is not that it is horrible but that it presents the universe as so horrible that the Imperium has to be horrible for humanity to survive. Torture, genocide, unwilling sacrifices with fanatical religious overtones. The ends justifies the means is glamorized. Being as horrible as possible is placed on a pedestal and praised.

Dang, I am running the risk of getting political here.

I could go on all day about how I feel glamorization of criminality has caused a terrible problem in US and UK society from a law enforcement perspective. Or how glamorization of dishonorable/unethical behavior in movies like the Dirty Dozen, Inglorious Bastards, and Fury has affected culture in the US Army from a military perspective.

Much as I love Firefly it has the baggage of perhaps unwittingly playing up support for Neo-Confederatism by helping perpetuate the “noble cause” myth.

Admittedly I feel a bit hypocritical because glamorizing war itself is an issue for a number of people. For as long as I can remember I have been drawn to military conflict. I remember watching Sands of Iwo Jima with my Dad at four years old and wanting go to a military school at five, which disappointing to me did not happen.

How I approach violence in media in regards to my son has been strongly challenged by my wife, who has a very different cultural background for me. From my perspective how sex and violence are treated is reversed between US and German culture, ie what is the bigger taboo.

But I have to ask myself how do I feel about my son one day consuming GW products knowing GW currently dominates so much of the hobbies done in our household. I certainly feel better about the moral and ethical examples set in the Tolkien universe, which even if imperfect sets a better tone than 40K, AoS and even WHFB.

In a way it is the Star Wars Stormtrooper, the Pirate, the Harley Quinn on the 7 year olds lunch thermos, t-Shirt and bedspread. Why do we create such cool images for things we should not want to emulate?

I doubt GW has an agenda to push fascist ideals but I think they have shown a willingness to not really care if their products end up doing so as long as they make money from it.

The thing is I enjoy hobbies that often glamorize violence. I am not a pacifist. To me there is a time and place for violence, contextless key. I only hold GW to the same standard I hold myself to when my son asks me why certain characters do certain things to each other in stories. Whether it is a cop arresting someone, a wolf wanting to eat Goldilocks and the three little pigs, or a supervillain attacking a superhero. We have not had to address war yet, he is just a bit too young and I doubt Mrs. GG is going to let him watch the Sands of Iwo Jima with me any time soon.

I hope I have not gone too far into politics but these are core concerns I have about GW. I do not feel it is an incredibly ethical corporation but it is immensely influential due to its remarkable success. I do not feel GW does enough to address diversity and inclusion and not doing so is a waste of that immense influence.

And this all impacts what Mrs. GG and I buy from GW or recommend to others. So I think it may be relevant enough to include in this thread… but the moderators may feel otherwise. If so, I am prepared to redact the contentious elements.

EDIT: In regards to the Satanic Panic of the 80’s and D&D. The concern was exaggerated and misplaced but that does not diminish the risk of irresponsible immersive role play on the psyche. I am far from an expert but since role playing can be a powerful training aid and therapeutic tool and any tool can be abused to become dangerous it is not something that should be used irresponsibly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on June 12, 2021, 10:36:52 PM
Quote from: jetengine on June 12, 2021, 11:24:28 AM
Whilst I disagree with your first paragraph, you'd be right with your second if GW actually bothered.

Fair enough. I kinda wish I hadn't got involved in this discussion, I suppose that essentially we all see things in varying degrees of seriousness, and I think most people can and do separate fiction and reality when the fiction is so far removed from the real world. I'm hereby bowing out and sticking to very much hobby-only discussions (which this one is very much only on the border of, as I feared).

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on June 13, 2021, 09:22:02 AM
I know I am long winded and preachy. Not my best attributes.

But I also know I do not have all the answers.

I know different people have different perspectives, different experiences. Maybe I am wrong about GW. I hope I am. I have mates that have worked for GW and suspect some still do despite having lost contact with them over the years. I have disliked a number of GW corporate and artistic decisions. But I am also aware of the joy the company has helped create. I appreciate the glee with which I painted my Crimson Fist Space Marines back in the 80’s.

Often I get wrapped up in my philosophical self reflection as I try to understand feelings of guilt or try to avoid feeling like a hypocrite.

Maybe part of my issue about being inclusiveness with GW is that too often I feel like there is no room in the 40k universe for me. No one I can cheer on or root for without feeling guilty about it.

Maybe it is irritation that it feels like GW panders to the part of their customer base that likes the cynicism and bitterness of a lore change for the Bretonnian religious faith into a sham, obere manipulation by the Wood Elves.

But maybe I resent that the change in lore of Bretonnian culture leans into class inequality and oppression rather than glossing over that to focus on Arthurian images of knightly glamor. So again I feel guilty about what I once enjoyed.

And clearly I do not feel strongly that I am boycotting GW or encouraging others to do so.

I just think it is important to apply critical thinking to all things, including games, and wonder, “Can I, can we, do better?”

It was good that GW disavowed Arch Warhammer. However I would like to feel that it was a genuine decision and not just a cynical sacrifice of a no longer useful means to their desired ends.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Bloggard on June 13, 2021, 02:56:57 PM
Quote from: Gibby on June 11, 2021, 10:22:29 PM
... The sort of people who take 40k so seriously as to want to model reality on it are probably so far from being a threat that a steep hill or particularly large staircase would defeat them. Just my two cents. Honestly, I think that 90% of these "40k fascists" are just shitposting meme fans, and even if not, the idea that they're a real threat in any way to society is laughable. ...

was going to keep my trap shut, but seeing folk here having a reasonable and thoughtful discussion, somewhat prompted by my postings, thought I'd just comment on your bit above Gibby.

On its own terms (your paragraphical sentiment) I would agree with you entirely, ... but the effect of GW's presentation that I'm worrying about, is a more subtle and yet mundane real-world thing.
Sort of drip-drip-drip if you like. Something, which, consciously or not by design, can feed into larger movements and attitudes. And I'm seeing plenty of evidence of the growth of those attitudes.

GW are kind of getting caught in no-mans's land it seems to me - and I wonder if there really is a struggle within the company between those who would like to promote a more inclusive quality to the good guys (and sorry, but again, if anyone really thinks the imperium is generally (implicitly if you like) presented as anything other than the 'good guys', you really are in denial imo) and those that are sadly invested in another less tolerant world-view.

This is kind of borne out by the Gaunt's Ghosts thing I mentioned to begin with - interestingly the paint-jobs on the figures sort of (half-heartedly) suggest that inclusiveness, whereas the really crass graphical art-work couldn't any more clearly deny any such possibility.

anyhow, maybe this is all a bit OTT for a thread on the LAF ... dunno. Probably. But it says a lot for this forum, how it's gone so far!

It's a 'difficult' subject (I mean - Grumpy Gnome, I wouldn't, these days, agree with your pass for Tolkien, and I was quite the devotee in times past), to say the least.
And I can quite understand the 'oh for goodness sake, it's just a game / entertainment / fiction - get real' response.

thanks again for the comments and thoughts.

I should add that GG in his post one before his last above, puts thoughts and concerns of mine better than I could.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 19, 2021, 04:50:47 PM
New Age of Sigmar starter set is up for pre-order Age of Sigmar: Dominion (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Age-Of-Sigmar-Dominion-EN-2021)

I suppose £125 for 60 figures and rulebooks isn't too bad, although I don't see any signs of scenery pieces in the pictures. It's just a shame I'm not keen on the Sigmarine aesthetic :(

They had a weird queuing system first thing this morning, but they do seem to have enough sets that it hasn't turned into a one-off, limited edition release.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 20, 2021, 05:28:35 AM
Yeah, I noticed the queue thing too. Had to wait a short time to look. It was 6 minutes so I just left and came back about 20 minutews later, lost my place in the queue, queued up again and it was just 1 minute wait. Leaving you 10 minutes to make a purchase is a bit of a sneaky sales tactic (well, not sneaky really) Increase that FOMO by limiting your time online before your space is given to someone else.
I'm quite impressed by the set but have better things to spend my money on (like groceries).
I'm more and more impressed by their aesthetic lately and I'm a bit of a die hard 90's era fan. I'm being more and more swayed by plastic these days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on June 20, 2021, 10:27:41 AM
Quote from: beefcake on June 20, 2021, 05:28:35 AM
I'm more and more impressed by their aesthetic lately and I'm a bit of a die hard 90's era fan. I'm being more and more swayed by plastic these days.

I actively disliked the Age of Sigmar aesthetic early on, but I have to say now the range is a lot more fleshed out I am warming to a lot of the stuff now I see it in context. I dont think its for me (although I can definitely see a use for a Dwarf Airship....) but I appreciate it a lot more- and a lot of the stuff is extremely pretty- albeit impractical as a gaming piece imo.

That said I can't see a place for Age of Sigmar in my rules collection. But at least I can appreciate what they are doing now a bit more
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on June 20, 2021, 11:32:25 AM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on June 20, 2021, 10:27:41 AM
impractical as a gaming piece imo.

Yes indeed. Aside from the fiddly bits etc I can't stand miniatures with terrain sculpted for them to stand upon, the odd rock or skull to rest feet on is okay (if overdone) but A hole pillar that follows a gargoyle or angel creature around is a bit much for me. Spoils the toys lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on June 22, 2021, 01:12:30 AM
Quote from: Grumpy Gnome on June 04, 2021, 06:42:58 PM
Echoes, sure… but different. Like Seraphon to the classic GW Lizardmen. Similar in some ways but otherwise different.

And yeah, I got a feeling of some old school GW influence but also the Orc designs from the Hobbit.

These Orcs are supposed to be followers of Mork, so more cunning and brutal, instead of the brutal and cunning of Gorkers, like the discontinued regular Orcs, Black Orcs and Super Black Orcs. Shamans are supposed to be Morkers and if you look at the recent ones, they do look a little slimmer than the ones I recall from WFB 6th Edition.

The Hobgoblins look like the ones from WotC's OOP Chainmail line: Hobgoblin Adept (https://chainmailminiatures.com/2017/11/22/88590-hobgoblin-adept/). The one thing I dislike about the Hobgrots is the tassets suspended from their hips and held up by ropes from the breastplate - the belly is exposed! Was someone listening to a Shakira song? lol


(https://chainmailminiaturescom.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/img_6351.jpg?w=1024&h=1024)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 04, 2021, 01:51:53 PM
I really like the new ork warbeast things they just previewed - The swamp lizard thing has hints of the old Nick Bibby dragons in it's overall shape - it almost looks like an animal that could actually exist.

The goblins riding a giant insane troll is fantastic, It reminds of something Rackham might have put out.It also looks familar, as if i've seen the concept somewhere before, but I can't quite place it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reed on July 06, 2021, 03:32:21 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on July 04, 2021, 01:51:53 PM
I really like the new ork warbeast things they just previewed - The swamp lizard thing has hints of the old Nick Bibby dragons in it's overall shape - it almost looks like an animal that could actually exist.

The goblins riding a giant insane troll is fantastic, It reminds of something Rackham might have put out.It also looks familar, as if i've seen the concept somewhere before, but I can't quite place it.

I think it was another company using Rackham's concept art that put out a goblin wizard riding atop a Red Troll.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cait Sidhe on July 07, 2021, 10:30:30 AM
Quote from: Reed on July 06, 2021, 03:32:21 PM
I think it was another company using Rackham's concept art that put out a goblin wizard riding atop a Red Troll.

Nope, Master Sulphur was an official Confrontation mini (I have a copy kicking about somewhere). Probably recasts you've seen from the usual guys.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qy8AAOSwiSBfW8jY/s-l400.jpg)

I've seen a bunch of folk unhappy with the different style of GW orcs/goblins but got to say they're a vast improvement for me. Then again I've always hated the gorilla orcs...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AndrewBeasley on July 08, 2021, 08:20:31 PM
Looks like Dominion stock is a limited run (but larger than the last collections at least):

Quote
Stocks of Dominion are starting to run low, so if you want a ruthless ready-made horde of your own, this is your last chance to pick up a copy

Taken from Warhammer Comunity article 'These Amazing Kruleboyz Paint Jobs Bring Stunning Colour to the Swamps of Ghur'
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Reed on July 08, 2021, 10:20:27 PM
Meanwhile, the biggest wargaming distributor and retail here in Spain just posted that they have overstock of Dominion boxes that they will sell at a discount.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AndrewBeasley on July 09, 2021, 10:22:53 PM
Quote from: Reed on July 08, 2021, 10:20:27 PM
Meanwhile, the biggest wargaming distributor and retail here in Spain just posted that they have overstock of Dominion boxes that they will sell at a discount.
As does my normal shop here in the U.K. - a case of GW spreading FUD I wonder???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ogrob on July 09, 2021, 10:25:59 PM
If they have to tell people it's selling fast they have way more stock left than they hoped for at this point. Still got me to buy my first GW start box in two decades.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on July 10, 2021, 04:19:21 AM
The AOS rebuild still leaves me cold so I will give Dominion a pass.  I was interested in the Gaunt's Ghosts release but the $10.5 USD per figure cost will probably end my interest. Maybe if I see them on ebay for resale later...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Condottiere on July 10, 2021, 04:50:18 PM
Quote from: Reed on July 08, 2021, 10:20:27 PM
Meanwhile, the biggest wargaming distributor and retail here in Spain just posted that they have overstock of Dominion boxes that they will sell at a discount.
What level of discount? Probably cheaper at RRP than what we're charged in the US...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 16, 2021, 12:55:00 AM
The new Kill Team box looks interesting- the two factions look great (Ork Commandos and gorgeous Death Korps of Krieg) the Ork terrain is nice and the rules actually sound....fun? no ranges for the majority of weapons, multiple wounds per model, simplified movement. Just sounds like a beer and pretzels dice chucker
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on July 16, 2021, 04:10:28 AM
Yes, I'm pretty excited about this release. I use 40k stuff for Pulp Alley, so these new purpose-built skirmish teams will be perfect. I hope there are more sets to come.

Normally I have no interest in GW's rules, but these ones do seem much more interesting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on July 16, 2021, 04:13:55 AM
Quote from: blacksoilbill on July 16, 2021, 04:10:28 AM
I use 40k stuff for Pulp Alley, so these new purpose-built skirmish teams will be perfect.
Lol I have something similar in mind for the fantasy stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 16, 2021, 04:54:35 AM
I don't recall orks having access to any kind of sniper before, that's a new development.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on July 16, 2021, 06:46:05 AM
Quote from: Dr Mathias on July 16, 2021, 04:54:35 AM
I don't recall orks having access to any kind of sniper before, that's a new development.
It’s not very orky is it  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on July 16, 2021, 09:35:13 AM
Gorgeous box. First time in ages I feel a bit of temptation towards a GW product.
Not gonna give in. I have enough projects, but I do feel kind of sorry I'll never get to paint those.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on July 16, 2021, 09:40:02 AM
Quote from: The Voivod on July 16, 2021, 09:35:13 AM
Gorgeous box. First time in ages I feel a bit of temptation towards a GW product.
Not gonna give in. I have enough projects, but I do feel kind of sorry I'll never get to paint those.

Could always buy the odd single mini from Ebay ? Use 'em in skirmish games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dwbullock on July 16, 2021, 07:08:34 PM
I thought ork snipers were called grots.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 16, 2021, 11:26:40 PM
Kommandos haz always displayed proppa un-Orky behaviour.

Don't get us started on dem Blood Axe weirdoz!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 16, 2021, 11:32:51 PM
Sneaky Morkers ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on July 17, 2021, 09:57:50 AM
No armour saves in melee because it's "comparatively easy" to find a weak spot in any armour...yeah that sounds a bit off. Even if it was easy to find a weak spot and your opponent was rubbish at defending it then it'd still be a lot easier to injure someone in little or no armour.

Quote
Getting embroiled in a melee is especially deadly as, unlike ranged combat, armour saves won’t help you here – in such close confines, finding an exposed joint or aiming for a foolishly unprotected head is comparatively easy. The only thing standing between an operative and the whirring blades of a chainsword is their own fighting skill, and this gives true close combat specialists a real moment to shine.

From the WC article here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/16/close-combat-is-a-deadly-dance-of-death-in-new-kill-team/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on July 17, 2021, 10:12:53 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 17, 2021, 09:57:50 AM
No armour saves in melee because it's "comparatively easy" to find a weak spot in any armour...yeah that sounds a bit off.

Yes, that does sound a bit bizarre.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on July 17, 2021, 10:39:51 AM
Quote from: blacksoilbill on July 17, 2021, 10:12:53 AM
Yes, that does sound a bit bizarre.

Agreed. Guess they want to try to balance out melee versus ranged but this seems off to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on July 17, 2021, 11:00:50 AM
Hours wait to get on their website get on it beast snaggas sold out and box set was £125 wouldn’t of paid that for 25 figures .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 17, 2021, 11:14:12 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 17, 2021, 09:57:50 AM
No armour saves in melee because it's "comparatively easy" to find a weak spot in any armour...yeah that sounds a bit off. Even if it was easy to find a weak spot and your opponent was rubbish at defending it then it'd still be a lot easier to injure someone in little or no armour.

From the WC article here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/16/close-combat-is-a-deadly-dance-of-death-in-new-kill-team/

Must be why humans didn't bother with armour until ranged weapons became the norm!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 17, 2021, 11:14:42 AM
That is really puzzling rules logic...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 17, 2021, 11:28:10 AM
Yeah one wonders why did Roman Legionnaires and fully armoured knights etc, etc, ever bother to don heavy and restrictive armour at all ???

Silly GW, silly :o lol

Don`t worry the next new edition will put armour saves back ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 17, 2021, 11:51:14 AM
Not getting a save when grappling against a guy with a knife, but getting one when hit in the chest with a Laser beam seems counter intuitive!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 17, 2021, 09:03:10 PM
Maybe the module writers mistook the GW universe for the Dune one.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on July 18, 2021, 02:36:22 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on July 17, 2021, 09:03:10 PM
Maybe the module writers mistook the GW universe for the Dune one.  lol

The slow knife...

Seriously though, sounds like a dumb rule :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 18, 2021, 03:06:25 AM
Sounds like Tyranid kill teams will be next to useless then.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 18, 2021, 01:39:38 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on July 17, 2021, 09:57:50 AM
No armour saves in melee

The justification is silly, I agree. But there were no armour saves in c/c in 2nd ed Space Marine for example, and it worked really well.
 The fact that Kill Team shooting sounds a little closer to 2nd ed SM than normal 40K makes me wonder if the rules writers were digging into GW's past.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: BZ on July 22, 2021, 12:28:39 PM
Nobody until now? Really?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/21/square-bases-and-kislev-ascendant-see-your-questions-about-warhammer-the-old-world-answered/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 22, 2021, 01:19:28 PM
I have absolutely no doubt I will.end up buying the rules (and any other fancy hardback book they bring out)

Id also be very tempted by a Kislevite range
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 22, 2021, 01:52:59 PM
I've been idly keeping an eye on the Old World project, but welcome as it is, I do fear that it will have the modern aesthetics for rules and models. In which case, it won't be for me. Bring back the simpler, classic designs and I might just part with some geld.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on July 22, 2021, 04:59:50 PM
I was very excited about this when they first pronounced it but have since been completely burned out by GW way of dealing with rules.
I have had to accept that their rules are just no longer for me. They don't feel fresh and they they don't feel like they'll never be balanced as pushing the newest models is more important than having a balanced game.
I think I'll need to use other rules with my GW armies.

I'll still check it out. I'm curious and they might actually pleasantly surprise me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. White on July 22, 2021, 05:14:09 PM
I'm not really sure why they're doing this. WFB sales lagged, the old world storyline progressed and was destroyed, players were told to rebase to rounds. Now, there's a reverse course and some of these older armies can go back to squares? I guess market research shows it'll be profitable?

I'm also out. I was a huge GW fan and not just Oldhammer style nostalgia either. I think GW hit another major creative peak around 2016 with the nifty standalone titles like Gorechosen and Silver Tower.

However, I'm not a fan of recently released titles. All the lines seem to be based on the Fantasy Flight Games - micro transaction model. "Not just minis and rules, but buy some cards, some tokens, some rulers, some dice, etc"...all of which go oop.

So, outside of BB, I'm pretty much out on GW. I _much_ prefer the old school leanings of books like Osprey's Lion/Dragon Rampant and Ronin. A thin rule book, some d6s, and any minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 22, 2021, 06:16:21 PM
It does seem a bit odd. If they wanted to bring back an Old World themed product to milk the old fans through the power of nostalgia id have personally gone with an old world themed Warhammer Quest (I suppose Cursed City isn't too far off this) and maybe give Mordheim the Newcromunda treatment
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr. White on July 22, 2021, 06:24:04 PM
Or something like Mordheim. Gang level skirmish games have been en vogue in recent years. they could ride that trend and release a few Old World style minis for the oldheads and those that like that era.

From reports when they crushed the Old World, it was that sales were slumping and Rank n Flank wasn't popular anymore. Are KoW and Oathmark really doing so well that GW thinks this will be profitable again? What about the risk this has of splitting their current fantasy base? Maybe the modern gamer has so much disposable income they'll buy armies in both AoS and Old World? I dunno.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 22, 2021, 06:35:16 PM
Quote from: Jack Hooligan on July 22, 2021, 06:24:04 PM
Or something like Mordheim. Gang level skirmish games have been en vogue in recent years. they could ride that trend and release a few Old World style minis for the oldheads and those that like that era.


An ideal one would be to do a mordheim source-book for warcry, then release mordhiem faction and campaign packs that allow you to use your old gangs or, More likely, new miniatures from the old world range.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 22, 2021, 06:51:14 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on July 22, 2021, 06:35:16 PM
An ideal one would be to do a mordheim source-book for warcry, then release mordhiem faction and campaign packs that allow you to use your old gangs or, More likely, new miniatures from the old world range.

Sod the new stuff, with its endless special rules for everything before, during and after the game, it's cards and etc, etc. (Disclaimer: I do like the early Primaris Marines before they got too fussy, except I use them for correct "Tru-scale" marines)

Some of that was true for oldhammer/old40K (6-7th) but it was still far better than chrome 40K or whatever the hell the fantasy equivalent is supposed to be?

Only really intersting thing recently released (well 2017  :o) by GW IMHO was Shadow Wars: Armageddon, but they killed that stone flat also  :-[, I am actually going to use it to run my version of Stargrave with Necromunda mechanics for my sins  ;D

Sorry if the above comes across a bit strange, but I have just eaten a big slab of bread pudding and the sugar rush may have kicked in lol

Happy gaming people
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 22, 2021, 07:02:51 PM
I played quite a lot of Shadow War, but it was only ever a product to test the water I think. It was pretty much just 2nd ed 40k/Old Necromunda after all.

Unfortunately my gaming friend are still very much into whatever is new from GW so as soon as Kill Team came out that was it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 22, 2021, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on July 22, 2021, 07:02:51 PM
I played quite a lot of Shadow War, but it was only ever a product to test the water I think. It was pretty much just 2nd ed 40k/Old Necromunda after all.

Unfortunately my gaming friend are still very much into whatever is new from GW so as soon as Kill Team came out that was it.

You are quite correct it is almost a direct port from 2nd & Necro, but thats part of the charm I feel. I just hate this whole battleforged nonsense and endless warlord traits etc trap that the modern stuff seems to have fallen into. Yawn!

I desperately tried to like it (bought into killteam/40K 8 & 9th) but I can`t get on with the reams of special rules it reminds me of trying to play "Fizbin" on the wrong day  lol. Oh and the endless rulebooks to buy :o :(

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 22, 2021, 08:58:07 PM
Reading that WHC post makes it sound like this is more of a cash grab then a proper return to The Old World.  I'm out of GW 100% so it doesn't really matter to me.  I simply cannot stand the way GW does business...so I have a feeling you're going to find a lot of classic Warhammer Fantasy fans getting burned out by the GW "power creep, constant DLC, endless errata, new books every 12 months" business.

I have a feeling GW saw a gap in their all-consuming hunger, the community that is still playing rank-n-flank, but with Mantic's rules or other rule sets, etc.  At the very least GW figures they can sell old players a new $45-60 book for their old army.

I'll be shocked if GW actually supports the game with full armies of models - a competing product (in a sense) for their own AoS.  I suspect they realized though that most AoS players are more 40K players dabbling in fantasy, with very few Warhammer Fantasy converts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dolmot on July 22, 2021, 10:33:10 PM
I'm actually cautiously optimistic about this.

After being an avid WHFB player in the early-mid 00s, I did my personal "rage quit" somewhere around 2008, maybe. That was the time when Kirbyism at GW got really crazy. No specialist games. No internet presence beside the shop site. No special offers. No bits service. No fan material or other improvisation in WD. They even axed the mail order troll title and cartoon characters, explaining that "we're too serious for that now". Just a catalogue-like magazine and communicating with the fan base via numerous C&Ds. Someone claimed that their internal policy was "if the fans want something, we precisely won't do it, just to show them who's the boss". No idea whether that was really true, but it definitely felt like their modus operandi.

The gaming scene itself had also turned extremely toxic in ways that I may explain in more detail later (if I find it worthwhile). There was just no fun of any kind in sight so why bother.

7th edition (2006)? Rules-wise, nice small improvements over 6th. I even got a fancy collectors' version of the rulebook. However, it was ruined by a couple of abysmal army books. GW provided no fixes or support whatsoever in those days, and the tournament-driven scene was violently against any homebrew changes, thus the end result turned borderline unplayable as the army books rolled in.

8th edition (2010)? Had already lost my interest for various reasons, some of them listed above. Also, as a possible act of overcompensation against "cavalryhammer" accusations, the rules and releases seemed to favour ludicrously large (monstrous) infantry units requiring too much investment and hassle for an average gamer. Kirbyism continued. The game seemed to lose its popularity and eventually got killed for good as you know.

Age of Sigmar (2015)? "Geez, our fantasy game requiring 50-strong units no longer sells. That other skirmish-format game about space marines still does. Ergo, the only possible solution is to turn WHFB into a skirmish-format game about space marines too!" I have no interest whatsoever in space marines. Also, there was already a skirmish-format mid-tech-level game, known as Warmachine/Hordes. Renaming races and units to keyboard-mashed nonsense for IP protection or whatever. Just...why bother? Absolutely nothing in here for me.

However, around that time, there was one ray of light, namely appointment of Rountree as CEO. Suddenly there was appreciation for customers and fans, hobby articles, rumours, videos, fan-made material, specialist games, stuff of legends, you name it. GW sales and stock price skyrocketed.

Still, no real game of fantasy battles.

I was completely disconnected from all things GW for over 10 years, thus the bitter details have already been lost in time, like tears in the rain. I feel like I could do a complete reboot now.


Well, that rant got a bit long. Anyway, what we have in here looks like a complete reversal of Kirbyism and AoS shenanigans. Could you call that full list of announcements (square bases, old names, old world, even name-dropping 1st and 3rd editions) total fan service to the oldhammer crowd? Too good to be true? Is there a catch? We'll see but I definitely won't jump into doomsaying yet.

Is it going to break through? Is it going to last? To be honest, I don't care. The local scene has been playing 9th Age, Kings of War and various oldhammers for years with varying levels of popularity. If the New Old World is a complete stinker...hey, just continue with those alternate versions which are already doing reasonably well. There's nothing to lose, really, only a moderate chance of winning if the new game is a good one. If they don't provide a full line of miniatures...hey, I already have plenty, and even a small handful of oldhammer-compatible terrain releases with a "tech update" to current production values would make me happy enough.

Honestly, I have nothing to dislike in that announcement. It promises exactly what I'm looking for. Regarding the implementation, see above. I can take any bits that are actually good, skip the rest, and keep playing sporadically. Meanwhile, there's a good chance that it will bring in some old and new players, who may stick around even if the community decides to play another edition instead. No commitments, just opportunities. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 22, 2021, 10:54:31 PM
If could wave the magic wand and wish for things I know wouldn't happen, I'd wish for all the vintage Citadel models locked away under IP protection laws to be released again. Some of the old sculpts, maybe retouched, tidied up, cast properly and available for sale? Wouldn't that be a beautiful thing. Imagine a world of 'cast on demand' where those elusive models you've been seeking for years was suddenly available to the drooling fans once more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 22, 2021, 10:59:00 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on July 22, 2021, 07:54:05 PM
You are quite correct it is almost a direct port from 2nd & Necro, but thats part of the charm I feel. I just hate this whole battleforged nonsense and endless warlord traits etc trap that the modern stuff seems to have fallen into. Yawn!

I desperately tried to like it (bought into killteam/40K 8 & 9th) but I can`t get on with the reams of special rules it reminds me of trying to play "Fizbin" on the wrong day  lol. Oh and the endless rulebooks to buy :o :(

Glen

The best thing they ever did was all the Index books.when 8th 40k was released. If they'd have just stopped there id have liked it a lot more!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 23, 2021, 05:05:21 AM
I'm looking forward to it. If not just to see what they do with it. I'll still base my ogres (not ogors) on round bases whenever I get around to painting them (probably when they kill of the old world again).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 23, 2021, 07:16:49 AM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on July 22, 2021, 10:59:00 PM
The best thing they ever did was all the Index books.when 8th 40k was released. If they'd have just stopped there id have liked it a lot more!

Even better would have been including them in the rulebook, like 3rd edition did. Oh and the heady days of a £8 full codex and £4 minidex, instead of the over-inflated and expensive nonsense we have now that may only last for a year or maybe two at the most >:(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 23, 2021, 07:36:46 AM
So good luck to them, mainly maybe, some miniatures - new but with old aesthetic would be interesting.

smells of marketing the old thing as the next great new thing, but with all the extra modern cards, special rules etc, combined with the classic OOP/new versions releases routines in place.

If there is a free basic rules release to take a look at, ok

Otherwise I am good.

Quote from: Storm Wolf on July 23, 2021, 07:16:49 AM
Even better would have been including them in the rulebook, like 3rd edition did. Oh and the heady days of a £8 full codex and £4 minidex, instead of the over-inflated and expensive nonsense we have now that may only last for a year or maybe two at the most >:(

Yes but we are meant to have grown up and abandoned it all to the skip after two years, so that the next edition/generation of customers can start burning their parent's money...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 23, 2021, 07:49:47 AM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 23, 2021, 07:36:46 AM
So good luck to them, mainly maybe, some miniatures - new but with old aesthetic would be interesting.

smells of marketing the old thing as the next great new thing, but with all the extra modern cards, special rules etc, combined with the classic OOP/new versions releases routines in place.

If there is a free basic rules release to take a look at, ok

Otherwise I am good.

Yes but we are meant to have grown up and abandoned it all to the skip after two years, so that the next edition/generation of customers can start burning their parent's money...

Well I am a wargamer so I never grew up ;), plus where is the fun in that  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: sonicReducer on July 23, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
I have been on a big GW kick recently having bowed out of GW games about 10 years ago. I think it is stress induced nostalgia  lol
Hitting my upper 30's, massively stressful 18 months with 4 kids at home, living in a building site for 6 months .... definitely got me pining for simpler times when a mini dex cost £4 and a Space Marine Captain not much more.

I wouldn't know where to start with GW games now. I looked at the Dominion box but there is just something off for me with these new orruks ... They are technically excellent but just missing some of the soul of the older minis that I find in sculpts like the Perrys and Foundry. I could just be a grumpy grognard (I suspect this is the case). The older minis had a bit of whimsy and slapstick to them.

What dropped me hardest from GW was the constant revolving door of money. New editions, codexes, mini prices ... I remember considering starting a Dark Elves army when plastic Witch Elves came out for something like £30 for a box of 10, needing 2 or 3 boxes for one unit in the army. I noped out of the whole system and sold off a big Word Bearers army and 2 WHFB armies including some OOP metals. Can't see myself going in for this Old World rehash. I did pick up the new Bloodbowl box on a whim and I'm pretty keen to play 7's which looks a good beer and buddy game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 23, 2021, 04:16:51 PM
I'm exercising my own GW nostalgia by rewriting my own version of 40k (which I've basically spliced Bolt Action and 2nd ed 40k together) and Fantasy battle (a mishmash of 2/3 and 4th with chunks of other games I've enjoyed over the years) so the games play the way I want, raiding my mums attic where thankfully I've still kept a lot of my oldest stuff, and keeping a sharp eye on ebay and selling sites. Its getting harder but there are still bargains out there, particularly with 40k, I picked up an entire Space Wolf army with the majority of the special characters for about 40 quid  about 2 or 3 years ago. Im also a fan of the clearly hand sculpted models of yield GW and it gives me.great joy to own them amd paint them!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on July 23, 2021, 06:22:32 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on July 23, 2021, 04:16:51 PM
I'm exercising my own GW nostalgia by rewriting my own version of 40k (which I've basically spliced Bolt Action and 2nd ed 40k together) and Fantasy battle (a mishmash of 2/3 and 4th with chunks of other games I've enjoyed over the years) so the games play the way I want, raiding my mums attic where thankfully I've still kept a lot of my oldest stuff, and keeping a sharp eye on ebay and selling sites. Its getting harder but there are still bargains out there, particularly with 40k, I picked up an entire Space Wolf army with the majority of the special characters for about 40 quid  about 2 or 3 years ago. Im also a fan of the clearly hand sculpted models of yield GW and it gives me.great joy to own them amd paint them!

Go Sir Theo, Go.

More power to your elbow and good luck and happy gaming

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 24, 2021, 01:22:04 AM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on July 23, 2021, 04:16:51 PM
I'm exercising my own GW nostalgia by rewriting my own version of 40k (which I've basically spliced Bolt Action and 2nd ed 40k together) and Fantasy battle (a mishmash of 2/3 and 4th with chunks of other games I've enjoyed over the years) so the games play the way I want, raiding my mums attic where thankfully I've still kept a lot of my oldest stuff, and keeping a sharp eye on ebay and selling sites. Its getting harder but there are still bargains out there, particularly with 40k, I picked up an entire Space Wolf army with the majority of the special characters for about 40 quid  about 2 or 3 years ago. Im also a fan of the clearly hand sculpted models of yield GW and it gives me.great joy to own them amd paint them!
Look out for your C&D letter  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 24, 2021, 08:29:56 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 24, 2021, 01:22:04 AM
Look out for your C&D letter  lol

I think he only has to worry about that if he tattoos the rules onto his back.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 24, 2021, 10:02:57 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on July 23, 2021, 07:49:47 AM
Well I am a wargamer so I never grew up ;), plus where is the fun in that  lol

This is of course utterly true, and as my better half will happily admit, and agreee, I fit well within that spectrum.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: aktr on July 26, 2021, 07:28:17 AM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on July 23, 2021, 04:16:51 PM
I'm exercising my own GW nostalgia by rewriting my own version of 40k (which I've basically spliced Bolt Action and 2nd ed 40k together) and Fantasy battle (a mishmash of 2/3 and 4th with chunks of other games I've enjoyed over the years) so the games play the way I want, raiding my mums attic where thankfully I've still kept a lot of my oldest stuff, and keeping a sharp eye on ebay and selling sites. Its getting harder but there are still bargains out there, particularly with 40k, I picked up an entire Space Wolf army with the majority of the special characters for about 40 quid  about 2 or 3 years ago. Im also a fan of the clearly hand sculpted models of yield GW and it gives me.great joy to own them amd paint them!

those rulesets sound amazing - would you be willing to share them?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on July 26, 2021, 08:43:05 AM
Quote from: aktr on July 26, 2021, 07:28:17 AM
those rulesets sound amazing - would you be willing to share them?

I dont know if amazing is the right word!

Certainly once they are in a place where I am happy with them I can share them in Dropbox etc. I'll let you know.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on July 31, 2021, 10:56:51 AM
Welp, looks like GW are flushing their good will down the drain again. Any fanmade media will now be legally challenged, irrespective of its profit earning capabilities. Guve it 5-10 years and they'll have "changed again". Then rinse/repeat.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 31, 2021, 11:21:42 AM
They seem to have come down hard on fan made animations.. with changes regards their published guidelines

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-SE/Intellectual-Property-Guidelines

not unsurprising with their recent release schedules and new animation stuff coming out?

basically within their traditional approach to business, regards infringements.

Shame to an extent, as on the one hand they have even hired "fan" animators based on their created content.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on August 03, 2021, 08:57:58 AM
Am I the only one who thinks the newer case foam is kinda crap? I get that the basic square foam may not be one-size-fits-all enough for GWs increasingly outlandish designs, but their weird modual design is a bit half assed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on August 16, 2021, 09:37:47 AM
Being a very casual follower of GW stuff at best, I completely missed Cursed City the brief time it was available... which is a pity, since I really dig the minis I've been seeing lately. I liked Blackstone Fortress too for the minis... not that I've painted them or even played the game once. You know how it goes. Completely lost my painting mojo when Covid hit, I suppose I have no motivation to paint at all, since I've got no-one to paint them for. What we play is online, Fallout 76 & Roll20 for 'tabletop' roleplay etc. Plus I've had to avoid sitting too much due to emobolism in my upper leg... That should be sorted after September, one hopes. :-[

Anyways, not to whine about it, I suppose there's no chance of finding Cursed City somewhere, ebay etc? And even if I did, I suppose the price would be postively supernatural, right? lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 16, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
I'm sure you'd be right about the ridiculous pricing. I hope they do a second run.
Hope your leg gets sorted too :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 17, 2021, 02:20:56 PM
Quote from: Verderer on August 16, 2021, 09:37:47 AM
Anyways, not to whine about it, I suppose there's no chance of finding Cursed City somewhere, ebay etc? And even if I did, I suppose the price would be postively supernatural, right? lol

You can buy all the bad guys, if that is what you're after, from GW I believe. Haven't checked for a little while but you certainly could. They've made an "army box" kinda thing for it as a faction of the Undead ranges.

I expect the good guys will be in a similar box soon. So no need (I hope) to worry or pay ebay prices.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on August 17, 2021, 04:13:08 PM
Yes, I remember seeing the skeletons and zombies for sale in the store; are the characters available separately too?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 17, 2021, 05:16:59 PM
Radukar the Wolf is available by himself, or you can get him and all the other characters in the Radukar's Court box. Both only available online at the moment as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on August 18, 2021, 02:35:03 PM
As irritated as I get with GW, I do like their partworks, mostly because it allows me to puck and choose exactly what I want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 19, 2021, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Verderer on August 16, 2021, 09:37:47 AM
Being a very casual follower of GW stuff at best, I completely missed Cursed City the brief time it was available... which is a pity, since I really dig the minis I've been seeing lately. I liked Blackstone Fortress too for the minis... not that I've painted them or even played the game once. You know how it goes. Completely lost my painting mojo when Covid hit, I suppose I have no motivation to paint at all, since I've got no-one to paint them for. What we play is online, Fallout 76 & Roll20 for 'tabletop' roleplay etc. Plus I've had to avoid sitting too much due to emobolism in my upper leg... That should be sorted after September, one hopes. :-[

Anyways, not to whine about it, I suppose there's no chance of finding Cursed City somewhere, ebay etc? And even if I did, I suppose the price would be postively supernatural, right? lol

Some local game stores still have copies.  There's one at my FLGS, so they're out there- but yes the eBay versions are all around $260+ at the moment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 20, 2021, 09:21:17 AM
Looks like they're releasing a new weekly magazine to get folk into 40K - Warhammer 40,000: Imperium Magazine. Note, this may be UK only just now - link (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/18/build-up-a-truly-massive-collection-of-miniatures-with-the-new-warhammer-40000-imperium-magazine/)

Suggestions it kicks off next week, not sure about the price

Quote
    What could be better than learning the fundamentals of the Warhammer hobby in a weekly magazine series? How about getting your very own models with it every week? That’s exactly what you’ll get with Warhammer 40,000: Imperium, launching in the UK in just one week’s time.

    This series has everything you need to get started, including an awesome variety of models, paints, and tools in each issue, and tutorials designed for newcomers to the hobby. It’s the perfect way to start or expand your collection.

    Pitting Necrons against the forces of the Imperium, subscribers will end up with two sizeable armies over the whole run, as well as scenery and a great foundation for your paint collection. Feast your eyes on all of the models you’ll have once the series is complete.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on August 21, 2021, 01:03:00 PM
Just watched the first of the hammer and bolter animations that is up for 24 hours free on warhammer community. It was rather fun, Although the style reminded me more of an intro cinematic than a full cartoon - I see what they were going for but compare it to something like the opening animation to the movie Priest, it falls a little short visually (ALthough that may be unfair, comparing genndy tartakovsky with nameless animation studio #55674) still it was fun enough, some humour, some violence, plenty of orky slang.

Also as a side note, I was told this week by my local GW store manager that they no longer sell greenstuff- at all. so...yeah, kind of annoying.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 21, 2021, 01:36:21 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on August 21, 2021, 01:03:00 PM
Also as a side note, I was told this week by my local GW store manager that they no longer sell greenstuff- at all. so...yeah, kind of annoying.

If it's any consolation, you can get it in bigger quantities for less online.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diablo Jon on August 21, 2021, 02:12:10 PM
Quote from: zemjw on August 20, 2021, 09:21:17 AM
Looks like they're releasing a new weekly magazine to get folk into 40K - Warhammer 40,000: Imperium Magazine. Note, this may be UK only just now - link (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/18/build-up-a-truly-massive-collection-of-miniatures-with-the-new-warhammer-40000-imperium-magazine/)

Suggestions it kicks off next week, not sure about the price

Around the 25th of August I believe (£8.99 an issue after the first couple of magazines). I'm already signed up. I haven't really kept up with 40k in recent times but it looks like you quite get a lot of stuff for your money with the magazine if you stick out all the issues. I should get four issues a month so I'm thinking one week a month I'll have a GW painting week to slowly build up a collection of new 40k models.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on August 21, 2021, 02:20:12 PM
Quote from: Cubs on August 21, 2021, 01:36:21 PM
If it's any consolation, you can get it in bigger quantities for less online.

Of course, but it's still an inconvenience, and one that might discourage young hobbyists picking up sculpting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 21, 2021, 06:28:54 PM
Oof.  Tried to watch the free preview on Warhammer Community.  That animation was...dreadful.  More like a promo-video for a Kickstarter for a small company, or an intro video for a Mobile App game, etc.

Not the video I would have led with as an "example" of what can be had with the subscription. Pretty dire stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Exiledadmiral on August 21, 2021, 11:22:28 PM
I loved the animation preview personally. Very stylised and I think it fit the Ork perspective really well. I was a little worried they were going to try to make it family friendly, but then a guy got cut clean in half and another had a massive hole blown through him, so my fears were allayed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on August 22, 2021, 02:26:14 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on August 21, 2021, 02:20:12 PM
Of course, but it's still an inconvenience, and one that might discourage young hobbyists picking up sculpting.

All you need nowadays is a digital sculpting programme and a resin 3D printer.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on August 22, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on August 22, 2021, 02:26:14 PM
All you need nowadays is a digital sculpting programme and a resin 3D printer.

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not since I've genuinely seen that advice given to new hobbyists who just want to learn basic sculpting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on August 23, 2021, 12:13:03 AM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on August 22, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not since I've genuinely seen that advice given to new hobbyists who just want to learn basic sculpting.

I was being a bit disingenuous really. I am a firm fan of the art of sculpting by hand (although I can't do it myself) but it is possible to just do everything by CAD method nowadays.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 23, 2021, 09:50:37 AM
Trouble with home 3D printing, from the very little I've seen of its process and the results, is that you're reliant on the sculpting templates out there, which produce very samey faces and poses. Maybe in time it will evolve to the stage where you can literally use your laptop to sculpt anything you want in any design, but for now you're stuck with choosing between relatively generic heads and bodies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on August 23, 2021, 06:19:08 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on August 23, 2021, 12:13:03 AM
I was being a bit disingenuous really. I am a firm fan of the art of sculpting by hand (although I can't do it myself) but it is possible to just do everything by CAD method nowadays.

It certainly is BUT it's essentially an entire second hobby - many of the hobbyists I know who use 3d printing now basically use it exclusivley instead of buying minis to convert - in part because 3d printing has it's own time sink to consider.

It's alos just always great to learn to use actual materials where possible - you lean alot about working in three dimensions from using your hands and being able to mess with the limits and strengths of different materials. (let's not even start on the number of 3d sculpts that get put up in kickstarter promos that are basically uncastable...)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 23, 2021, 06:45:39 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on August 23, 2021, 06:19:08 PM
It's alos just always great to learn to use actual materials where possible - you lean alot about working in three dimensions from using your hands and being able to mess with the limits and strengths of different materials. (let's not even start on the number of 3d sculpts that get put up in kickstarter promos that are basically uncastable...)

From a professional standpoint, I can confirm this. I've definitely done a couple of jobs trying to save sculpts that were technically superior to my own work, but practically impossible to mould or even print as a functional game piece.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on August 25, 2021, 04:46:10 PM
https://www.warhammer40000imperium.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvKOAkMHM8gIV2-7tCh32nwW7EAAYASAAEgJzIfD_BwE

Picked up the first issue for £2.99 today. It has an Ultramarines Primaris Lieutenant and a Necron Warden, plus some d6 and acetate ruler. I'm planning to convert the marine to the Space Wolves and just paint the warden for the hell of it. Can't grumble for 3 quid.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: stone-cold-lead on August 25, 2021, 05:25:01 PM
Do these part works actually work out as being a bargain over all? £700+ if you stick with it for all 80 issues!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on August 25, 2021, 05:35:17 PM
Quote from: stone-cold-lead on August 25, 2021, 05:25:01 PM
Do these part works actually work out as being a bargain over all? £700+ if you stick with it for all 80 issues!

You know, if it was a model partwork I'd say no, but given GW prices and the fact that these issues retails at £8.99, I think it might save some money even if it's not a bargain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on August 25, 2021, 05:45:29 PM
Quote from: Onebigriver on August 25, 2021, 05:35:17 PM
You know, if it was a model partwork I'd say no, but given GW prices and the fact that these issues retails at £8.99, I think it might save some money even if it's not a bargain.

The savings compared to buying the same figs at retail vary between 44% to 55% depending on where you live, and that assumes you pay full price for the mag itself (which many will not).  So yeah, it's a "bargain" on par with their big holiday boxes if you actually want everything or think you can reliably trade unwanted stuff off.  Some idiots are expecting to sell the figs they don't want to mitigate the costs, which is going to work poorly since the market will be flooded with this stuff from all the other people thinking the same way.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Patrice on August 25, 2021, 06:20:34 PM
By sheer curiosity I looked at the subscription page, it's from Hachette. Since many years this French company floods bookshops in France (and apparently in English-speaking countries too under the name Hachette partworks) with series of magazines with thingies to collect included beneath the cover.

In my experience the first issue can be good value, you get some miniature or something for a really low price, I sometimes bought one. The second issue is usually a bit more expensive but can still be interesting if you really want something. Afterwards it's a fool's curse of bank account damnation, I never tried it. I've seen them selling magazines at a ridiculous price with little bags of miniature plastic bricks for people to make some building, I didn't try to calculate how much it could have cost in all to the poor people they caught.

My advice: run to buy the first issue if you like what comes with it; have a look at the second issue, just in case. Then forget the following ones and buy a couple of pints instead.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on August 25, 2021, 06:49:00 PM
Quote from: Patrice on August 25, 2021, 06:20:34 PM
My advice: run to buy the first issue if you like what comes with it; have a look at the second issue, just in case. Then forget the following ones and buy a couple of pints instead.

While I agree with you in general, the ridiculous pricing on GW figs will make specific issues worth getting even after the price per issue spikes (as it did the last two times they did this routine).  Subscribing to the whole run is certainly nuts unless you truly want every single thing, but if someone wants specific models it's worth keeping an eye on what's coming with each issue and trying to grab just what they want.  The trick there becomes getting the issue before it disappears, often through getting bought by speculator/scalpers who then charge a mint on the secondary market.

You can get some bargains even through Hachette, but it takes some luck and effort.  Or you could just not get hypnotized by "cheap" GW stuff that's still less economical than just paying retail for North Star or Wargames Atlantic or Victrix or...well, you get the idea.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 25, 2021, 07:19:48 PM
Warhammer+ is open for subscription - https://warhammerplus.com/

£10 voucher and other stuff when you subscribe

ps I thought this topic was pinned, but it's drifting in the warp storms just now  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: AndrewBeasley on August 25, 2021, 09:11:17 PM
The other problem I find is that I would like to cherrypick magazines but very few stockists keep more than the first 4 or 5 issues available 'off the shelf' and you have to either subscribe directly or via the shop with no return options.


For me it's a 35 minute drive to a magazine shop that stocks them throughout the run and there is always the risk they have run out...


Last time (Space Marines vs Death Guard) I missed out on some figures I was after and ended up on eBay trying to save a little money compared to game shops who discount GW sets.


I do wonder if there are any returns and if they are worthwhile - when I last looked they where not available unless you subscribed BUT that was mid print run.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on August 25, 2021, 09:36:28 PM
Guys, this is the kind of discussion that should go on the GW discussion thread. If you have actual hobby-related topics based in this magazine, feel free to open new topics on that, but I have folded this one into the main thread where the magazine is already under discussion.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on August 26, 2021, 11:07:21 PM
Quote
My advice: run to buy the first issue if you like what comes with it; have a look at the second issue, just in case. Then forget the following ones and buy a couple of pints instead.

Amen to that.
IF I wanted any of the part-work subjects
I would be really worried about:-
a) the enormous cost, say £800 for a...Milenium Falcon.
b) getting to issue 499 & the publisher stops sending.

That said I am in possession of the Part-work on HMS Victory!
'How come?' I hear you ask. My wife's friend's father
 collected every issue, intending to open them all only
when he had the lot. By then he would be retired & have
the time to make a 1/100th Napoleonic 104 gun first rate
ship of the Line, only he then passed away. As I am a War Gamer
it ended up with me, so if anyone wants to buy & collect  it
from my garage I will pass the proceeds onto the Wife's friend.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on August 27, 2021, 04:15:25 PM
This part-work isn't like the model kit ones though - you're not building a baneblade over 80 issues - so even if publication stops, you're still going to have the miniatures as opposed to having an incomplete kit.

IMO, if you like Ultramarines & Necrons then it's worth collecting the magazine. I bought issue one because you get two miniatures for £3, I can have fun converting one but not lose too much sleep if it goes wrong, and I can enjoy painting the other even if it has no practical purpose for me.

I am tempted by issue 2 as it's £6 and you get three necrons. Could be a useful little sci-fi warband. Plus you get a paint.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 28, 2021, 05:19:04 AM
Sounds like a cheap Kill-Team
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on August 28, 2021, 01:53:59 PM
Went to my local Smiths, took the one of the many
copies of the mag to the check-out.
'£9.99' he said. 'No' I replied, 'First issue under £3'
Smugly he went on, 'That's not the first issue, don't
have any of them,  it is  the introduction to Wargaming.'
I declined to spend a tenner for the 2 figures on the front.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: joroas on August 28, 2021, 03:42:17 PM
Nearly got caught on that one too.  A bit sneaky!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Patrice on August 28, 2021, 10:23:35 PM
Quote from: has.been on August 28, 2021, 01:53:59 PM
'£9.99' he said. 'No' I replied, 'First issue under £3'
Smugly he went on, 'That's not the first issue, don't
have any of them,  it is  the introduction to Wargaming.'

 :o :o The retail price doesn't appear on it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on August 28, 2021, 10:41:17 PM
Yes it does.
And it has a different title to the new partworks.
I admit I picked up the expensive one first. But checked and then easily located the cheaper partworks and bought that instead. 'Sneaky' I think is overstating things - they're clearly (to me at least) different products. Don't think there's any attempt to con anyone.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on August 28, 2021, 11:38:19 PM
Nearly fell for that myself in Smiths. The new partwork is called Imperium. The other magazine is a one off called Getting Started with Warhammer 40,000 or similar and is a tenner. Issue one of Imperium is definitely £2.99, then regular price will be £8.99 (but £5.99 for issue 2).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on September 04, 2021, 12:17:27 PM
Typically GW have released the beast snaggas separately again , s as hame I soar my dummy out after missing out on the box set and decided to collect the 2 nd edition snake bite orks instead an hit eBay 😂
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 07, 2021, 11:33:33 AM
Did anyone else get spammed by GW last night?

In addition to the normal newletter I also got the German version o_o Another copy of the German version made it to an email address that ForgeWorld has, but not the main GW site, so even odder.

Strange things happening in the Warp...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on September 07, 2021, 12:48:48 PM
Yep.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 09, 2021, 04:58:21 AM
lol, yep I got the German version too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on September 12, 2021, 07:46:07 AM
I didn't get the german version, now I feel a little left out!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on September 19, 2021, 09:34:38 PM
Been waiting for GW to do this (without hope, really) ever since the Confrontation hive gangers back in the early 90s. I've never liked the way the Necromunda gangs are all so uniform - surely some Goliaths wear shirts? Not all Eschers wear crop tops? Etc etc.
Anyway - we're getting non-uniform hive gangers! With both male and female options!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/09/19/gen-con-a-new-gang-of-outlaws-revealed-for-necromunda/

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on September 19, 2021, 09:57:48 PM
It's about time they put out some decent NPC's.  Imagine how much you could do if these and the other Necromunda kits were old-school multi-parts, etc. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on September 19, 2021, 10:28:10 PM
Quote from: Elbows on September 19, 2021, 09:57:48 PM
It's about time they put out some decent NPC's.  Imagine how much you could do if these and the other Necromunda kits were old-school multi-parts, etc.
Sorry dude, I don't understand? The new kits, and I expect these too, are all fantastic for conversions if that is what you mean. Sure you've got to think a little harder about how to cut 'em up, but they cut up so well. Just look at all the stuff on instagram from the Inq28 and Blanchitsu folk.
Bitz websites get a lot more money from me than GW does these days.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von der Tann on November 22, 2021, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: Chief Lackey Rich on November 22, 2021, 07:22:44 PM
... and after the neo-Nazi incident in Spain, that population is growing.

What did I miss???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on November 22, 2021, 08:34:12 PM
Quote from: von der Tann on November 22, 2021, 07:33:18 PM
What did I miss???

Short version, some ass calling himself "Austrian Painter" showed up at a tourney in Spain wearing Nazi iconography on his clothes.  Apparently had a DAK Ork army too, but that's neither new nor unusual nor clever., and it wasn't the issue.  One (maybe more) of his opponents complained to the tourney organizer, who insisted (apparently correctly) he couldn't eject the guy because of the way Spanish law works, and when the complainer refused to play the neo-Nazi he was given a game loss while his opponent got a win and finished out the tourney.  The news hit the internet, people freaked out (as well they should), the wannabe-fascist got the tourney results yanked off his ITC ranking a few days later, and GW put out this bit of corporate virtue signaling:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/11/19/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/

Going to guess the next thing to happen will be some bright spark of a Hitler-in-training picking a really recognizable symbol from 40K (like that inverted omega for the Ultramarines) and having his little group of brownshirts adopt it as their own, wearing it hate rallies and getting on the news with it prominently featured, happily explaining to reporters how it was inspired by the beautiful writings of Games Workshop who've really helped encourage them to carry on the Reich's work, and [insert group] are actually mutants and should be purged with fire in the Emperor's name, etc, etc. 

GW's legal department might as well shoot themselves once that train wreck starts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: von der Tann on November 23, 2021, 05:45:58 AM
Quote from: Chief Lackey Rich on November 22, 2021, 08:34:12 PM
Short version, some ass calling himself "Austrian Painter" showed up at a tourney in Spain wearing Nazi iconography on his clothes. 

Thanks - I missed that. Sad thing this happened, even more sad they didn't sanction the dude right away. But I guess humanity will never get rid of idiots ...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on November 23, 2021, 06:48:03 AM
Quote from: von der Tann on November 23, 2021, 05:45:58 AM
Thanks - I missed that. Sad thing this happened, even more sad they didn't sanction the dude right away. But I guess humanity will never get rid of idiots ...

Quite the conversation going on about the incident over on Dakkadakka. I think GW is not doing enough but it is typical GW.

In other news… I am surprised how much I like some of the more recent non-Middle Earth GW sculpts. The Middle Earth sculpts lately look rather blocky. Kind of like square jawed Soviet art.

The new Necromunda scatter terrain will work nicely for other games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on November 23, 2021, 01:27:58 PM
Quote
Quite the conversation going on about the incident over on Dakkadakka. I think GW is not doing enough but it is typical GW.

Literally what else can they do? The fact they had to put a message out about it and explain the difference between fantasy and reality is a joke
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 23, 2021, 01:44:07 PM
I like the look of the Outlaw gang that goes up for pre-order next week.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/iFDxa2DOOxK6Rdnq.jpg

I can see them being useful as basic gangers but also for anyone wanting to have some civilians, with a wee bit of conversion. I'm all about the small games of 2nd ed 40k right now and will likely do a gang of these facing off against an inquisitor...don't fancy their chances though :D

It'd be cool if there was some heavy weapons in the box but it shouldn't be too hard to kit bash some up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on November 23, 2021, 01:46:58 PM
That outlaw gang looks pretty damn good
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 23, 2021, 01:53:18 PM
I've been trying to work out what you get in the box...given that there are 4 body designs and 3 of each shown in the pic I'm guessing you get 3 sprues, each with the 4 body types on.

Also shown in the pic there are 8 different heads and 11 different weapons.

So if there are 3 sprues each with 4 bodies, 8 heads and 11 weapons that gives you a hell of a lot of bits and possible combos. Of course I could be wrong.

Either way with a couple of heavy / special weapons a box would be a good sized gang with spare gangers and plenty of options.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 23, 2021, 02:19:57 PM
Is it just me, or are these figures (which I'm looking at as generic sci-fi options) a bit ... lifeless compared with, say, the Stargrave kits or the Wargames Atlantic sci-fi stuff?

Perhaps it's just the paintjob or something, but they mostly look a little odd to me - especially the ones with a different weapon in each hand.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 23, 2021, 02:29:41 PM
I think that might be a taste thing, thought the GW paint job hasn't done them any justice. I can see a lot of conversion potential amongst them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: BZ on November 23, 2021, 03:07:01 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on November 23, 2021, 02:19:57 PM
Is it just me, or are these figures (which I'm looking at as generic sci-if options) a bit ... lifeless compared with, say, the Stargrave kits or the Wargames Atlantic sci-fi stuff?

Perhaps it's just the paintjob or something, but they mostly look a little odd to me - especially the ones with a different weapon in each hand.
Not just You. They are especially plain compared to other Necromunda miniatures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on November 23, 2021, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on November 23, 2021, 01:27:58 PM
Literally what else can they do? The fact they had to put a message out about it and explain the difference between fantasy and reality is a joke

They can do a lot more than a canned PR statement. How about interviews with key GW bosses, artists and writers speaking out against real world hate? How about humorous adverts of violence being left to toy soldiers? How about 40k having some positive plot threads about combating hatred in order to succeed?

You may think it is a joke but in my experience there are plenty of folks who see Fantasy and fiction as means to show community approval of their values, ie the ends justifies the means, xenophobia is just commonsense, might makes right, do not question authority, mercy is for the weak, science is just another form of religion, etc etc etc ad nauseum.

As for the new gang, I like the less over the top look. I think they will fit in better with Wargames Atlantic and Stargrave for that very reason.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 23, 2021, 03:45:35 PM
Quote from: Grumpy Gnome on November 23, 2021, 03:27:21 PM
As for the new gang, I like the less over the top look. I think they will fit in better with Wargames Atlantic and Stargrave for that very reason.

Agreed. I can see me using them for building civilians, gangers, servitors, knight pilots etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 23, 2021, 08:18:19 PM
Quote from: Chief Lackey Rich on November 22, 2021, 08:34:12 PM
corporate virtue signaling

"We won’t let you participate. We don’t want your money. We don’t want you in the Warhammer community." seems quite a bit stronger as a statement than something I'd deride as mere "virtue signalling".

 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mr.J on November 23, 2021, 08:19:54 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 23, 2021, 08:18:19 PM
"We won’t let you participate. We don’t want your money. We don’t want you in the Warhammer community." seems quite a bit stronger as a statement than something I'd deride as mere "virtue signalling".

Agreed. I thought it was a well thought out and well expressed statement.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diablo Jon on November 23, 2021, 09:35:53 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on November 23, 2021, 01:44:07 PM
I like the look of the Outlaw gang that goes up for pre-order next week.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/iFDxa2DOOxK6Rdnq.jpg

I can see them being useful as basic gangers but also for anyone wanting to have some civilians, with a wee bit of conversion. I'm all about the small games of 2nd ed 40k right now and will likely do a gang of these facing off against an inquisitor...don't fancy their chances though :D

It'd be cool if there was some heavy weapons in the box but it shouldn't be too hard to kit bash some up.

I'm certainly going to be in for some of these I'm building an imperial guard force that represents the last desperate defenders of an Imperial city with the city's civilians are having to fight side by side with last guardsmen. I reckon these will be perfect along side a few Orlocks and Cadians to form a really mixed bag of defenders.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 23, 2021, 11:57:35 PM
Yeah. Great as generic guard minis for a bit of a militia force. I like that there is a chainsword. Don't see them much on your basic troops, (or I haven't looked hard enough)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 24, 2021, 06:45:49 AM
Quote from: Diablo Jon on November 23, 2021, 09:35:53 PM
I'm certainly going to be in for some of these I'm building an imperial guard force that represents the last desperate defenders of an Imperial city with the city's civilians are having to fight side by side with last guardsmen. I reckon these will be perfect along side a few Orlocks and Cadians to form a really mixed bag of defenders.

Cool idea, it sounds like a characterful force.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on November 24, 2021, 11:17:43 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on November 23, 2021, 08:18:19 PM
"We won’t let you participate. We don’t want your money. We don’t want you in the Warhammer community." seems quite a bit stronger as a statement than something I'd deride as mere "virtue signalling".

Exactly this.

Though presumably I'm virtue signalling by agreeing with this :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Patrice on November 25, 2021, 01:57:50 PM
Quote from: Chief Lackey Rich on November 22, 2021, 08:34:12 PM
One (maybe more) of his opponents complained to the tourney organizer, who insisted (apparently correctly) he couldn't eject the guy because of the way Spanish law works

That's stupid. I don't know what Spanish law says about it but you can always expel someone for improper or provocative behaviour. Game organizers need to be clear about this and ready to face such problem when it arises.
Title: GW Product Recall Notification
Post by: Chief Lackey Rich on November 26, 2021, 08:41:05 PM
This is a new one - Bounca the Squig has had a product recall issued:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/recall

It's a stuffed toy, so I'm guessing either something on it is a choking hazard or whoever made the thing used dangerous materials in the process (maybe something toxic if (say) a kid were to try to eat the fool thing, or just plain flammable?).  Can't say I've seen GW have this problem before but maybe I missed a previous incident.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 26, 2021, 08:51:09 PM
It's the pom-poms - 'Can become a detached and cause a choking hazard'. American safety regulations are very strict about such things - these guys banned Kinder Surprise eggs for the same reason.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 26, 2021, 10:28:52 PM
I now have an image in my head of shady types hanging out at gaming conventions... "Wanna buy a squig?"  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 28, 2021, 08:59:16 AM
Anyone managed to pre-order the outcast gang before it was sold out online?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 28, 2021, 11:50:08 AM
I pre-ordered two boxes from Wayland Games. I was tempted by the market but in the end I realised I'd probably just use the containers and little bits so the stall stuff would just go unused. I might pick up the bits I like from eBay or other at some point.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 28, 2021, 04:56:19 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 28, 2021, 08:59:16 AM
Anyone managed to pre-order the outcast gang before it was sold out online?  lol

Not me, I was hoping to get one. They're spot on for a small project I have in mind.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 28, 2021, 06:04:05 PM
Dr Mathias there is at least one box up for sale on eBay and I'm sure there are some retailers still out there with them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 28, 2021, 08:57:33 PM
...Are the Outcast crew and book a limited release then?

If so, then I'm struggling to understand the logic...  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 28, 2021, 09:50:21 PM
I assume they aren't and that they proved more popular than GW expected. I would have thought they'd restock them when they can.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on November 29, 2021, 10:49:40 PM
GW seems to have a VERY hard time calculating the amount of stock they need, trending toward under-production. I get why some companies do it, for hype reasons and limited boutique style releases that may or may not have to do with raw material supply... but why GW can't figure out how much plastic to mold and cardboard to print is pretty mystifying.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 30, 2021, 04:06:00 AM
Because plastic is super expensive and can't be recycled. Oh wait...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 30, 2021, 06:44:06 AM
Given GWs drive for hype sales and that they'd like / expect hobbyists to buy the new shiny every week, under production could well lead to considerable loss of sales so I'm surprised GW hasn't cracked down on sorting this problem out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on November 30, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
I'm surprised that outlander/outcast gang set sold out that quickly. It looks rather bland and uninspired - to me - and only 1 small sprue that you'll get 3 times in that box. I'd expect to get Perps, rag-tag post-apoc wasteland survivors and/or cyberpunk style miniatures than this underdressed Orlockians...  Rather underwhelming, this :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 30, 2021, 03:46:16 PM
Fair enough. I prefer the more understated look and aside from the stripy-quilted armour I don't see much resemblance with the Orlock gang.

I have heard some likening them to the old Free Company sprue from Mordheim and I can certainly see a lot of conversion potential, especially with a bit of kit bashing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on November 30, 2021, 08:18:45 PM
Yeah, these guys are filler or conversion fodder and that's not only okay, but quite useful.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on December 05, 2021, 07:14:48 AM
Am I reading this right?

On the GW website it is 170 Pounds but on the EU website it is 224 Euros… which is considerably more than the 192 Euros Google says the conversion rate should be.

Is the Rohan Stronghold only going to be able to be purchased from the GW website?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 05, 2021, 07:49:09 AM
Sounds pretty standard for GW practice. NZ$560 which is 285 pounds. Pretty cheap in comparison.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on December 05, 2021, 08:05:23 AM
Why does GW do that?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on December 05, 2021, 08:26:37 AM
Quote from: Grumpy Gnome on December 05, 2021, 08:05:23 AM
Why does GW do that?

Funny, I can't find the ass emoji  lol

No one knows why, but I suspect that immense profitiering/grasping could be the root cause  ;)

Have a nice Sunday everyone

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 05, 2021, 09:26:03 AM
I recall a long time ago when it first started happening they blamed it on shipping and warehousing of stock, but that is a load of BS. Also they stopped southern hemisphere people buying from northern hemisphere. So I can't buy from US GW shops or any stockists of their products. Ebay is good generally though but still have some issues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 10, 2021, 06:47:05 PM
To understand GW's business methods, you simply need to understand one phrase: because they can.

Now, as a disclaimer - I don't have an issue with how any company chooses to run their business.  I'm a full on free capitalist, do whatever you want.  However, I do vote with my wallet, etc.

GW is in a position as a game company that few other companies are.  They're "Apple" levels of comfortable in their market.  They have a vast and voracious consumer base who will buy anything, at, as we're seeing, any cost.  Their IP's are incredibly strong, and they're a multi-billion dollar company now.  Their influx of new customers outweighs their loss of older customers (people who aren't particularly keen on paying $100 for a tank).

They have fully embraced the "FOMO" (fear of missing out) business model.  They have intentionally produced fewer kits than they can sell for the past 4-5 years on major product releases.  This benefits them in a number of ways. 

1) Brand value, etc.  Look no further than eBay to see how wildly expensive old and out-of-print GW kits can be, particularly boxed games. 
2) Less stress on warehousing.  I don't think this is a real problem for them, but it makes it easy when you're not sitting on product. 
3) It motivates the 'next' release, by scaring all the consumers into the fear of missing out - guaranteeing massive pre-orders and panic buying the second a product is released. 
4) If consumers don't buy the entire product release, the scalpers will - a guarantee of making an additional 10-15-50% by selling the boxes or bits online, etc.
5) They get to occasionally play the hero by re-releasing the sold out product.  They did this with the 40K starter box (THE MAIN PRODUCT YOU SELL), a month after it sold out immediately, they charged in and said "We'll custom make you one, so no one is left out!".  Something they didn't need to do if they had produced an acceptable number, but it garnered them a lot of positive online press.  "Look at how great GW is, they'll actually sell us something they make!", etc.

GW makes heaps of money.  Every single decision they make is intentional.  They don't make mistakes calculating demand.  They have a vast supply of consumer information, sales numbers, etc.  A worldwide massive company producing only 5,000 or 10,000 of starter box games...is intentionally taking the piss.  When a product goes missing for 3-4 months, it all but guarantees the next run to be sold out faster/easier, etc.  It's about keeping the consumer on the fishing line.

Very few companies have such a consumer market they can use in this fashion.  As mentioned before, companies like Apple and some other fashion accessory companies can do this kind of thing - money is no object and everything they make will be sold, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on December 13, 2021, 03:08:40 AM
Good points, thanks for the thoughts. Its probably good that I don't run a business ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on December 20, 2021, 03:16:04 PM
So if you missed it the first time, here is your chance to miss it again  lol
Cursed City: Resurrected! (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/20/cursed-city-resurrected/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 20, 2021, 07:06:37 PM
Yeah, I saw that mentioned on facbeook and had a chuckle (see my post above about GW getting to act like a hero when they...sell a product they produce) :D

I'm sure the expansions will disappear pretty quick.  Cursed City didn't go as insane as many of the other mainstream 40K or AoS boxes, but they were still going for a subtle premium on eBay recently.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 20, 2021, 08:03:57 PM
Yep, I'm still interested in it but will never get it due to the price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 21, 2021, 02:52:28 AM
I'm torn on getting it TBH. I did rather fancy it, but I also don't want to condone this:

Quote from: Elbows on December 20, 2021, 07:06:37 PM
GW getting to act like a hero when they...sell a product they produce

I'm also still pretty miffed that they took down any/all content relating to Cursed City when it sold out, and then refused to answer any questions whatsoever about what happened. I mean, why not just be honest and say a reprint is coming sometime later in the year (and in the process screw over all those scalpers who were banking on milking their copies on ebay)?

I really am totally tired of the "overhype - sell out - reprint to order" sales model, and that more than anything else has made me stop bothering (again...) with anything GW has been doing in the last year or two. Endless "limited edition" stuff which are models to fill in product gaps, and that people actually want a model for is also not helping (e.g.: why can't we just have even one standard Terminator Chaplain plastic model, instead of two limited release ones? Or a nice Catachan senior officer instead of two limited release ones?).

Anyway, sorry to moan, but I evidently needed to get that off my chest!  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 21, 2021, 03:18:03 AM
Yoou're right though. I'd prefer there to be a standard product of those sorts of things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 21, 2021, 04:05:39 AM
Still no sign of a Blackstone Fortress reprint tho.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on December 21, 2021, 08:04:22 AM
I loathe the secrecy that permeates GW. While I have not worked for them myself, I have enough friends who have. GW makes some products I really like, it has some great artists (in all mediums) but the lack of transparency really bothers me.

It seems to be the same with Mantic and Warlord Games but I do not know anyone well who has worked for them so that is only my outsider impressions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on December 21, 2021, 12:09:05 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on December 21, 2021, 04:05:39 AM
Still no sign of a Blackstone Fortress reprint tho.  ::)

You can still buy the base game, but I doubt they will make a reprint of the expansions...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diablo Jon on December 22, 2021, 07:44:07 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on November 30, 2021, 03:46:16 PM
Fair enough. I prefer the more understated look and aside from the stripy-quilted armour I don't see much resemblance with the Orlock gang.

I have heard some likening them to the old Free Company sprue from Mordheim and I can certainly see a lot of conversion potential, especially with a bit of kit bashing.

Quote from: FramFramson on November 30, 2021, 08:18:45 PM
Yeah, these guys are filler or conversion fodder and that's not only okay, but quite useful.

Quote from: Duncan McDane on November 30, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
I'm surprised that outlander/outcast gang set sold out that quickly. It looks rather bland and uninspired - to me - and only 1 small sprue that you'll get 3 times in that box. I'd expect to get Perps, rag-tag post-apoc wasteland survivors and/or cyberpunk style miniatures than this underdressed Orlockians...  Rather underwhelming, this :?

Just in case anyone is interested I managed to get my hands on a box of the outcast gang and think they are great little minis. I've converted some to use them in my IG army.

(https://diablocrusade.files.wordpress.com/2021/12/img_20211216_202705262.jpg?w=1024)

(https://diablocrusade.files.wordpress.com/2021/12/img_20211216_202626837.jpg?w=1024)

(https://diablocrusade.files.wordpress.com/2021/12/img_20211216_202723757.jpg?w=1024)

https://diablocrusade.wordpress.com/2021/12/22/the-last-charge/  (https://diablocrusade.wordpress.com/2021/12/22/the-last-charge/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 22, 2021, 08:21:13 PM
They look cool. I grabbed two boxes but wasn't so impressed when I built them up. They are still ok and I built a preacher and some militia. I will use the rest of the first box at some point but I will likely sell off the second box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 23, 2021, 02:57:51 AM
I like the source lighting you've done there. The outcasts seem perfect for the IG to me. Impressed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 23, 2021, 07:27:42 PM
I got to glance the outcast sprues at my buddy's place.  Again, I think great conversion fodder, but what struck me as odd...all of the heads suck.  I mean, weirdly, look at the kit - the bodies, arms, guns, etc...all pretty cool.  All of the heads are garbage in that kit.  Luckily that's very easy to replace, but just a weird lack of quality in any of the head sculpts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 23, 2021, 08:26:02 PM
They're ok, as always some better than others. The oddest one to me is the head with the spiked hair and then a bald patch on the centre of his head...thats not how baldness works (strangely a receding hairline follows a pattern defo not represented here). One of the oddest things for me is that some of the arms are skinnier than others so while at first it seems like you get the option to mix everything up thats not the case. To me its potential only really comes out when added to other kits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 01:58:13 PM
GW are legitimately trying to resell the 1998 40k starter set. Madmen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 02:30:02 PM
And only three months after I bought a load of old Dark Eldar Warriors on eBay. Sigh.  :?

I mean, is it so difficult to telegraph some of this stuff in advance a bit more?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: swiftnick on December 24, 2021, 02:56:40 PM
Quote from: jetengine on December 24, 2021, 01:58:13 PM
GW are legitimately trying to resell the 1998 40k starter set. Madmen.

Have you got a link please?
I couldn't find it on the GW site.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 24, 2021, 03:34:05 PM
Here ya go...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/24/warriors-from-a-bygone-age-return-for-christmas-day-pre-orders/

Its a set with 10 marines & a landspeeder plus 20 Dark Eldar Warriors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 05:29:02 PM
Yep, and just one day's notice, to preorder for a very short unspecified amount of time, for an unspecified amount of money.

Holy bat-announcements, er, Batman!   :o  ::)

As my friend said when I told him: "Why...? I am so confused.  :? "
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on December 24, 2021, 07:20:21 PM
I'm sure someone wants a bunch of lanky 90's video game style eldar and some stumpy marines, but it ain't me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 24, 2021, 08:02:30 PM
+1 Why?

available to pre-order from Christmas day?

Please tell me they have "sold out" already?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 24, 2021, 08:27:24 PM
I'm bamboozled too. Those Dark Eldar are horrible sculpts compared to the current range. Why would anyone want this?

Hopefully 2022 brings Necromunda plastic Scavvies though!

Merry Xmas all!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 08:47:24 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on December 24, 2021, 08:27:24 PM
I'm bamboozled too. Those Dark Eldar are horrible sculpts compared to the current range. Why would anyone want this?
Well, if it was the full box with the scenery and the rulebook in some form, I could understand. But just the models on their own...? Even with a tenuous link to the Black Templars on the starter box cover, it does seem a bit strange to suddenly spring on people at Christmas. The minis inside were even officially painted as Ultramarines, so it's a feeble link at best.  ???

Quote from: Belligerentparrot on March 14, 1975, 02:02:44 PM
Hopefully 2022 brings Necromunda plastic Scavvies though!
Doubt it; they got rolled into the current version of Cawdor.  :?

Quote from: Tactalvanic on December 24, 2021, 08:02:30 PM
Please tell me they have "sold out" already?
  lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: swiftnick on December 24, 2021, 08:49:41 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 24, 2021, 03:34:05 PM
Here ya go...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/24/warriors-from-a-bygone-age-return-for-christmas-day-pre-orders/

Its a set with 10 marines & a landspeeder plus 20 Dark Eldar Warriors.

Thanks for that
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 24, 2021, 10:20:47 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 24, 2021, 08:47:24 PM
Doubt it; they got rolled into the current version of Cawdor.  :?

I'm sure concept sketches were shown at a GW event years ago (the design team does seem to be years ahead of the actual release). But now that I think about it, they were maybe Ash Waste Nomads instead. Anyway, the sketches looked pretty promising, and pretty scavvy-esque.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diablo Jon on December 24, 2021, 10:23:13 PM
Always loved the original Dark Eldar, I had a big army of them back in 3rd, they were easy to paint becuase they were very clean and had next to no extra crap on the miniatures. The original incubi are still, imo, nicer than the new ones. Having said that if I wanted a bunch of old dark eldar it's hardly difficult to buy 2nd hands one for no doubt far less than GW would want for new ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 24, 2021, 10:32:36 PM
I guess it's interesting that GW are offering up old plastic minis for sale again...who knows maybe they will bring back some old plastic minis for the new WFB.

But yeah, it seems a really naff idea to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on December 25, 2021, 11:22:23 AM
Wish they had done the 2nd edition!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on December 25, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Sixty quid for that is an absolute bloody joke. Utter madness.

Meanwhile the Thorins Company is actually...reasonably priced? Compared to its original release which was 4 packs £30 each.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 25, 2021, 03:37:16 PM
I can see the new jetbike Rangers as a good basis for Exodite conversions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diablo Jon on December 25, 2021, 04:12:58 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 25, 2021, 03:37:16 PM
I can see the new jetbike Rangers as a good basis for Exodite conversions.

I rather like the new Eldar miniatures can't say the same for the chaos ones which are rather uninspiring imo not awful just a bit boring

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/25/new-asuryani-clash-with-chaos-space-marines-in-the-next-warhammer-40000-battlebox/  (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/25/new-asuryani-clash-with-chaos-space-marines-in-the-next-warhammer-40000-battlebox/)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 25, 2021, 05:22:36 PM
Quote from: jetengine on December 25, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Sixty quid for that is an absolute bloody joke.
Well, I laughed out loud when I saw the price, so I guess that counts?  lol lol

Quote from: majorsmith on December 25, 2021, 11:22:23 AM
Wish they had done the 2nd edition!
Eh, 2E was around for a long time (4 year re-sets for editions was post 3E afterall, not counting the unpopular 6E that got just 2 years...), so there are lots of the old models floating about for fair prices still. Plus, it's models only remember!

Quote from: Lost Egg on December 24, 2021, 10:32:36 PM
I guess it's interesting that GW are offering up old plastic minis for sale again...who knows maybe they will bring back some old plastic minis for the new WFB.
We'll have to see I guess. I can see them perhaps bringing back Dark Vengeance, or maybe Battle for Macragge (bit pointless without the scenery though...), but I doubt we'll see Assault on Black Reach as the Deff Koptas would only eat into the sales of the new models. Of all the starters though, that one would interest me the most (assuming models only). ;)

I wonder if they'll do any of the WHFB starters? The 6E one (Empire and Orcs) was great, as was 7E (Dwarfs and Night Goblins). 8E was re-released for AoS already (as "Spire of Dawn"), so I doubt we'll see it again, but you never know.

Quote from: Diablo Jon on December 25, 2021, 04:12:58 PM
I rather like the new Eldar miniatures can't say the same for the chaos ones which are rather uninspiring imo not awful just a bit boring
They're all lovely models IMO, but their release feels a bit too late - Eldar should have had more plastic kits to replace their metal/finecast units looong before now, so "new" releases at this point are bound to feel a bit uninspired. However, personally, I'd still rather just have the kits in plastic without anything "new".
Chaos are fine, but again their Chosen and Warpsmith should really have been released last edition when the CSM range was redone (as they were an obvious omission). I think they're fine, but I'm not in a rush to get any.

Quote from: Lost Egg on December 25, 2021, 03:37:16 PM
I can see the new jetbike Rangers as a good basis for Exodite conversions.
That's actually an amazing idea! I found them rather "blah", but making them into Exodites actually has me interested in them now... Hmm, dangerous.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 25, 2021, 05:36:48 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 25, 2021, 05:22:36 PM
That's actually an amazing idea! I found them rather "blah", but making them into Exodites actually has me interested in them now... Hmm, dangerous.

 lol Sorry. It's a shame they haven't done new shining spears too for the lances...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 25, 2021, 05:45:17 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 25, 2021, 05:36:48 PM
lol Sorry. It's a shame they haven't done new shining spears too for the lances...
Well, the new rifles don't look like the old 2E needle rifles, and the lances were supposed to be laser-lances, so... Might not be too hard to pull off with some spare (2E) plastic Eldar arms, and converting the rifles into lances.

Hmm, I may need to make this happen. So I'll need a box of Dark Elf Cold One Knights too I suppose... Hmm again!  o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 25, 2021, 06:04:25 PM
Good luck sir! If I didn't have more than enough to be getting on with I'd join you.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on December 25, 2021, 07:40:37 PM
I quite  like the look of the space wood elves .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on December 25, 2021, 10:10:44 PM
They do look good!
I recently bought the two flying dragons,lovely kits though pricey. Best dragons GW has done since the early days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on December 26, 2021, 11:31:36 AM
Quote from: Diablo Jon on December 22, 2021, 07:44:07 PM
Just in case anyone is interested I managed to get my hands on a box of the outcast gang and think they are great little minis. I've converted some to use them in my IG army.

Cool conversions!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 29, 2021, 08:55:15 AM
New "Seasons" idea for 40K looks interesting. If I understand it, it is quarterly (?) tweaks to various forces, tied to developments in the fictional narrative.

On the plus side, that is a more creative and immersive version of "keep buying our stuff" than just redoing the codexes endlessly. On the minus side, it is still "you need to keep buying stuff to keep up".

I wonder if this is GW trying to emulate the card set cycles of Magic the Gathering's endless buy-in. Doesn't look as effective a strategy if it is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 29, 2021, 09:00:56 AM
I like this idea in that release waves will presumably be themed, e.g. this series of battles take place in dense jungle so everyone gets a scouting type unit.

Do 40k units come with rules in them? If so then presumably you wouldn't have to buy the season books?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 30, 2021, 01:32:48 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 29, 2021, 09:00:56 AM
If so then presumably you wouldn't have to buy the season books?
This is GW, more likely there will be 2 season books  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 30, 2021, 04:58:51 PM
Quote from: beefcake on December 30, 2021, 01:32:48 AM
This is GW, more likely there will be 2 season books  lol

"Did we say seasons?  We meant months..."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 02, 2022, 02:16:02 PM
So GW have put the new Ork Boyz box up for pre-order...

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/ork-boyz-combat-patrol-2022

£29 for 10 minis (9 boyz and a nob) but you can only build 3 shoota boyz and 5 with sluggas & choppaz plus one big shoota or rokkit launcha.

For a new kit that sounds really limiting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 02, 2022, 08:32:34 PM
That's on par with their recent kits for stuff like Chaos.  Fortunately the 3D print market can more or less make up for that (with bits and/or whole models).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 02, 2022, 09:05:39 PM
I bought my son a deathguard combat patrol for xmas (which he was excited about) and we were pleasantly surprised to find 3 bodies for chaos marines on the poxwalkers, apparently due to them being part of another boxed set, so we set to kitbashing 3 more marines out of the spare parts. kind of surprised by that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 03, 2022, 04:20:36 AM
Ah, yeah I'd imagine that's cut from the old starter box.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 03, 2022, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 02, 2022, 02:16:02 PM
So GW have put the new Ork Boyz box up for pre-order...

£29 for 10 minis (9 boyz and a nob) but you can only build 3 shoota boyz and 5 with sluggas & choppaz plus one big shoota or rokkit launcha.

For a new kit that sounds really limiting.
Yeah, it is.  :?

Dunno why either, as the previous box managed to do:

- 10 Orks plus a Nob (so 11 models total)
- All armed with slugga and choppa
- Or all armed with shoota
- Up to two models can have one big shoota and one rokkitt launcha
- Nob has fancy slugga, power klaw, big choppa, and two head options, plus a few different back banners
- Kit has loads of grenades, anti-tank mines, armour plates, scopes/sights, and other accessories.

Did the Orks kit really need a refresh? Yes, definitely. Is this the refresh it or Ork players deserved? Um, no...  :'(

When I look at how the Space Marines kit was revamped in 2017(?), it makes me sad to see the careless way that the newer kits for other factions have had their contents selected. Still, at least the Orks got a new kit, unlike the poor Cadians who just got an upgrade sprue of a few guns that their kit should always have had, pus a load of wonky-looking heads...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 03, 2022, 03:21:01 PM
Some of those new cadian heads aren't too bad and if this is the sort of update they missed out on then it's probably a good thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 04, 2022, 10:18:39 AM
Yeah I quite like the Cadian heads too. The female ones are better than the male, I think.

Nice to see GW going for a more understated approach to female minis on the Cadian and Outcast sprues. Not a boob-plate or exposed midriff anywhere.

That new Ork box's limited options seems very... unOrky!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 04, 2022, 10:34:16 AM
Ahh I've not seen the male heads, I just grabbed the female ones off eBay for a conversion.

The limited options in the Boyz box ie even more odd now GW have released details of the new Guardian box: 11 minis (inc. a weapon platform with at least 3 options shown, inc. a new one), the 10 guardians can be defenders with shuriken catapults or storm guardians with pistols and CCWs. So why increase the guardian options but decrease the ork ones? Especially as there are only 3 shootas in the boyz box so you'd need 3 boxes to build a unit of 10 shootas inc. a Nob...though no shoota for him. Weird.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on January 04, 2022, 01:17:57 PM
Agreed the options are pretty limited aren't they?

My other moan about the modern plastic kits is they are way too fiddly, hard to kitbash and only allow one or two options (generally) on how thay are made-up.

I much prefer the older kits as they were much less hidebound in how they could be made-up and they are much, much easier to kitbash :D

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 04, 2022, 01:21:27 PM
Definitely. Plus, reducing the options in the kits seems to play into the hands of 3rd party manufacturers and 3D sculpting / printing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 04, 2022, 05:12:05 PM
Yeah, but what you don't want to see is stuff like they've done with Plague Marines.  Their codex entry was limited to the weapons precisely included in the starter box from 8th edition.  They may have changed it since then, but they're rapidly moving toward "You can take what these models have, nothing more".  You see it with all the modern Space Marine Primaris models.

The Primaris lieutenants or captains are strictly limited to what models exist with wargear.  Until an official model gets a chainsword, or power fist...it's not an option.  So, I wouldn't be surprised to see GW go further in that direction.

They came out a few years ago in some online stream and had said that they thought it was "confusing" for gamers when options were included in the codex that weren't in the model kit, etc.  So...yeah...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 04, 2022, 05:53:57 PM
Yeah that's where I suspect they are going with it but still it seems mad. For a long time the flexability of GWs kits has been the biggest draw for me but that is rapidly diminishing with the new style kits, they just leave me cold no matter how cool the basic model looks.

I haven't the space or the time to get into 3D sculpting and printing but I have found myself going back to some of the older kits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Diablo Jon on January 05, 2022, 09:15:33 AM
You can still kit bash with the newer stuff but it's bloody hard work now for anything bar head swaps. The worst are the monopose characters who always have half a body attached to an arm or a head so that doing a head swap requires presicion surgery and a lot of filler.

 I guess it's partly down to the multi facet way of GW "Hobby" in that plenty of people just want to play the game competitively are happy with as little construction, of minis, as possible to get them on the table. On the other hand the inq28 and the 40K modellers and painters  crowd would much rather have multiple piece kits with interchangeable bits for maximum kit bash potential.

It's not just a GW thing either plenty of people are divided over historical plastic kits and weather they want cheap quick assembly miniatures or multiple part model kits for maximum variety.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on January 05, 2022, 10:27:04 AM
It's practically a circle: back when GW made metal miniatures in one piece you had to chop them up to covert them.
Multi-part metals were a little bit better, and multi-part plastics more so.
Then came the current design philosophy (whether driven by market ideas, the design software used or efficient mould design I do not know) which is driving conversion towards assembly of the model and cutting it up again, just as we used to do with metal miniatures in one piece. Getting towards a full circle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on January 05, 2022, 12:35:15 PM
An ever decreasing circle, just like the oozlum bird lol

https://vovatia.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/the-secret-of-the-oozlum/

As referenced by Sydney James ;) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on January 05, 2022, 05:24:22 PM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on January 05, 2022, 12:35:15 PM
An ever decreasing circle, just like the oozlum bird lol

https://vovatia.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/the-secret-of-the-oozlum/

As referenced by Sydney James ;) :D
And this place again proves to be a fount of knowledge!  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on January 05, 2022, 05:57:22 PM
Quote from: Vanvlak on January 05, 2022, 05:24:22 PM
And this place again proves to be a fount of knowledge!  8)

 lol you know it! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 05, 2022, 08:07:27 PM
Diablo Jon - wonderfully put.

For myself, I don't mind the "hard work", and to be honest I don't find it much of a bother - you do need to think  a little bit about how things are going to fit together, but for me that is part of the fun. I cut up a couple of metal Confrontation gangers the other day, and that was definitely the unfun kind of hard work.

I thought GW has hit on a pretty good balance to be honest (for the most part - whoever designed the Van Saars  needs a stern talking-to). If you want a big army, you can get it good to go relatively quickly. If on the other hand you're into skirmish gaming with lots of conversions, almost all the kits scale extremely well together and you get much more dynamic poses than you ever could sticking Cadian torsos onto Free Company legs.

John Blanche's stuff is a nice example: he's always been exceptionally creative and good at conversions, but his stuff went up several levels once he could make use of the recent kits (cultists and ad mech especially).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on January 10, 2022, 02:37:07 PM
Circling back to Necromunda Outcasts gang, the GW website shows this as sold out online. Was it ever in stock?
Looking at other online GW stockists, they all show it as 'awaiting stock'. Did anyone manage to get a set?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 10, 2022, 02:51:08 PM
It has been available on and off. The original run sold out pretty quick, then it was available again, now it isn't again... I've been told the pandemic has had a significant impact at GW - they aren't churning things out as you'd usually expect them to.

The set is ace - great for conversions and all sorts of things.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 10, 2022, 04:20:02 PM
They're available on eBay at above-MSRP if you're desperate.  While I want a box, I'm not feeding that machine.  I'll wait and if it shows up at a normal price/discount I'll grab a box. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on January 10, 2022, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 10, 2022, 04:20:02 PM
They're available on eBay at above-MSRP if you're desperate.  While I want a box, I'm not feeding that machine.  I'll wait and if it shows up at a normal price/discount I'll grab a box.

I'm the same. Not desperate for them, but if they become available again I'll grab a box. Was going to use them as perps for Dredd that's all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: vexillia on January 13, 2022, 12:32:05 PM
May be of interest:

Quote
Games Workshop has chucked another £500k at entrenched ERP project with no end to epic battle in sight
Plans for new online shop get seal of approval despite Microsoft Dynamics delays

UK tabletop wargames specialist Games Workshop has published the latest chapter in the long-running saga of how mighty IT warriors valiantly battled the intransigent forces of ERP. 3City Beach Bowl Cup, 2019: master tournament in Blood Bowl tabletop game (a Games Workshop game)

Players battle over the Blood Bowl tabletop game (a Games Workshop product set in an alternate version of the Warhammer fantasy setting – but with gameplay based on a mashup of rugby/American football)

The Nottingham-based company behind the Warhammer figures has been locking horns with its gigantean adversary since at least 2017, according to reports at the time [PDF].

But in its latest half-year results [PDF] for the six months to 28 November 2021, the retailer and manufacturer admitted it spent another £500,000 on the project, with no end in sight.

https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/13/games_workshop_launches_05m_at/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 22, 2022, 11:53:06 AM
Looks like the new strategy of GW isreleasing an initial one-off print for their specialist games / boxed sets and afterwards splitting them up into smaller parts which of course mean a hefty price increase if you total it up compared to the original box. Hive Scum, their Necromunda set. Now sold as a single sprue instead of the original box of 3 identical sprues. lol
The same they did with the slave Ogryns. And their "new" Kill Team starter has been split up between the models and the terrain.
Really, of course they can do whatever they want, but they' have to do so without me. I'll get their basic games when they are first released and that's it. Maybe another gang to game with if I like the models but for the rest, no bloody way. Plenty of other games and manufacturers to send my money to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 23, 2022, 08:11:15 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on January 22, 2022, 11:53:06 AM
Looks like the new strategy of GW isreleasing an initial one-off print for their specialist games / boxed sets and afterwards splitting them up into smaller parts which of course mean a hefty price increase if you total it up compared to the original box. Hive Scum, their Necromunda set. Now sold as a single sprue instead of the original box of 3 identical sprues. lol
The same they did with the slave Ogryns. And their "new" Kill Team starter has been split up between the models and the terrain.
Really, of course they can do whatever they want, but they' have to do so without me. I'll get their basic games when they are first released and that's it. Maybe another gang to game with if I like the models but for the rest, no bloody way. Plenty of other games and manufacturers to send my money to.

I was initially a bit miffed at them splitting the hive scum box, But then I realized that A: I only really want two or three of those minis. B: I'm never going to paint them anyway, and C: I can now get them for less than a tenner from goblin games.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 23, 2022, 10:34:58 PM
Yeah, I recall some folk on here complaining you just get three of the same sprue (not enough variation for 12 minis) when the box of 12 was coming out. I conclude either one or both of two things have happened: a) GW have really screwed this release up, or b) it is impossible to please all of the people all of the time   lol

I did get the box of 12, and to be honest I would have been fine with one or two sprues. I guess this new box of 4 kinda replaces the old Chaos cultist box of 5 as a relatively cheap way to get a few henchmen minis. I do miss that cultist box though, it was just excellent.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on January 24, 2022, 10:58:58 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on January 23, 2022, 10:34:58 PM

I did get the box of 12, and to be honest I would have been fine with one or two sprues. I guess this new box of 4 kinda replaces the old Chaos cultist box of 5 as a relatively cheap way to get a few henchmen minis. I do miss that cultist box though, it was just excellent.

I really was hoping for those Underhive Scumbags until they released those 4...  :?
The cultists, I snatched up a couple of extra boxes of 5, because they're such great and useful figs. But they have been OOP'd or just mailorder only?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 24, 2022, 01:36:50 PM
Pretty sure they're OOP now. Such a shame as they were so versatile. I wish I'd nabbed a couple more boxes when I had the chance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on January 25, 2022, 07:31:07 AM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on January 22, 2022, 11:53:06 AM
Looks like the new strategy of GW isreleasing an initial one-off print for their specialist games / boxed sets and afterwards splitting them up into smaller parts which of course mean a hefty price increase if you total it up compared to the original box. Hive Scum, their Necromunda set. Now sold as a single sprue instead of the original box of 3 identical sprues. lol
The same they did with the slave Ogryns. And their "new" Kill Team starter has been split up between the models and the terrain.
Really, of course they can do whatever they want, but they' have to do so without me. I'll get their basic games when they are first released and that's it. Maybe another gang to game with if I like the models but for the rest, no bloody way.

 Plenty of other games and manufacturers to send my money to.

The question is, how long can they squeeze before it becomes too much ?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 25, 2022, 05:39:24 PM
Yeah, it looks like they're pulling the same silliness they did with the Necromunda Ogryns (remember the box of six for $60...that became a box of two for $40?)

I snagged a box of the Outcasts, but I need to source some heads and bits to make them what I want.  Fortunately I don't think I'll need more than the twelve.  Probably my last GW purchase for...ever?  I have my two opposing Necromunda warbands now, so I'm more or less done.  I suppose I might snag an Underworld box in the future - as their warbands occasionally intrigue me for my dungeon crawls.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 28, 2022, 10:05:19 PM
Ash Wastes stuff is coming for Necromunda this year, and Eldar Pirates coming for 40k. This is good news! Can't say I'm excited about vehicle rules for Necro, but if we get a decent Nomads box I'll be very happy.

The one Eldar Corsair previewed so far looks ace to me (except for the bird, but that is easily removed).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on January 28, 2022, 10:52:07 PM
That Corsair does look nice. I'm not really a fan of the Avatar (although he is suitably big) but the Maugan Ra I am a fan of.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 28, 2022, 11:02:28 PM
I'm not feeling the Maugan Ra, personally.  Not that it's a bad sculpt...it just doesn't feel like Maugan Ra to me.  Not heavy enough, no skeleton boots, and I don't need the hood/cloak.  He feels more like a Harlequin Death Jester.  I think it's a shame since he's one of my favourite Phoenix Lords and thus far they've done well keeping to the Goodwin aesthetic.  He just looks a bit "emo" for me.

Also...general criticism of the entire range thus far...can we not be standing on slabs of rock?  Every single friggin' model...

Avatar is spot on for an Avatar (though weirdly painted by the studio with a bleeding...wrist instead of a proper bloody hand?)  I don't play 40K anymore, but I assume he may finally get rules making him suitably awesome, instead of his watered down garbage rules which were solely tied to his old model being small.

Shining Spears look fine, nothing special - helmets could have been cooler.  They're quite boring.  However, for the first time...ever(?) there will be suitable plastic bits for kit-bashing amongst all the kits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on January 29, 2022, 09:49:47 AM
In general the Eldarodels feel very safe- just modern versions of the old designs. As I like the old designs I'm ok with that, but itnsort of feels like an opportunity missed.

Also it doesn't affect me as I have a load of original Jes Goodwin Eldar and I'm not going to get any of the new stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 29, 2022, 02:28:16 PM
On the whole, I'm very pleased with the new Eldar stuff from a design point of view - some subtle tweaks and updates to old classics, and more options added to the kits that have been missing from the older boxes for years. I even rather like the new Maugan Ra, even if he's a bit different and standing very oddly on some convoluted scenery...

I think the Avatar is surprisingly "meh" though; rather than different heads and weapons, I'd rather the kit had some different arms and legs, so that everyone's model could be posed a bit differently (and frankly, different weapons and heads would have been perfect for Forgeworld to offer!). I also think the model's proportions look a bit squat, and the bloody hand seems to be dripping blood from his cuff instead? Yeah, this one's a missed opportunity I'm afraid, and especially a shame after the truly stunning work on the most recent greater daemon models like the Keeper of Secrets. Ah well.

However, I expect that all these are almost certainly going to be far too expensive to tempt me, and come years (at least a decade!) too late; I think these models will really only be of serious interest to players who don't already have an Eldar collection, although I expect that the Phoenix Lords and Avatar will probably please lots of those players too (which is good!).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on January 29, 2022, 03:13:25 PM
Quote from: Elbows on January 28, 2022, 11:02:28 PM
I'm not feeling the Maugan Ra, personally.  Not that it's a bad sculpt...it just doesn't feel like Maugan Ra to me.  Not heavy enough, no skeleton boots, and I don't need the hood/cloak.  He feels more like a Harlequin Death Jester.  I think it's a shame since he's one of my favourite Phoenix Lords and thus far they've done well keeping to the Goodwin aesthetic.  He just looks a bit "emo" for me.

Also...general criticism of the entire range thus far...can we not be standing on slabs of rock?  Every single friggin' model...

Avatar is spot on for an Avatar (though weirdly painted by the studio with a bleeding...wrist instead of a proper bloody hand?)  I don't play 40K anymore, but I assume he may finally get rules making him suitably awesome, instead of his watered down garbage rules which were solely tied to his old model being small.

Shining Spears look fine, nothing special - helmets could have been cooler.  They're quite boring.  However, for the first time...ever(?) there will be suitable plastic bits for kit-bashing amongst all the kits.

Pretty sure that Maugan Ra is them lazily recycling the Death  Jester CAD, similar pose as well iirc
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 29, 2022, 05:35:40 PM
Quote from: jetengine on January 29, 2022, 03:13:25 PM
Pretty sure that Maugan Ra is them lazily recycling the Death  Jester CAD, similar pose as well iirc

Yeah no, as a 3d sculptor I'm pretty sure you'd be faster starting from base dollies than trying to rework the death jester to that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 29, 2022, 07:20:49 PM
Quote from: YPU on January 29, 2022, 05:35:40 PM
Yeah no, as a 3d sculptor I'm pretty sure you'd be faster starting from base dollies than trying to rework the death jester to that.

Yup, I know a 3d sculptor and he said exactly the same thing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on January 29, 2022, 07:24:35 PM
Quote from: Duncan McDane on January 22, 2022, 11:53:06 AM
Looks like the new strategy of GW isreleasing an initial one-off print for their specialist games / boxed sets and afterwards splitting them up into smaller parts which of course mean a hefty price increase if you total it up compared to the original box. Hive Scum, their Necromunda set. Now sold as a single sprue instead of the original box of 3 identical sprues. lol
The same they did with the slave Ogryns. And their "new" Kill Team starter has been split up between the models and the terrain.
Really, of course they can do whatever they want, but they' have to do so without me. I'll get their basic games when they are first released and that's it. Maybe another gang to game with if I like the models but for the rest, no bloody way. Plenty of other games and manufacturers to send my money to.

The only difference this time was that they said when releasing the Ogryn box that they were doing exactly that. They didn't do it with the underhive scum box for outcast gangs but, they did say that these were scum... and no other gang is going to need 12. 4 is max per gang I believe, and like with the ambots and ogryns, you probably need just one, so easier to split with a mate. Like with scum, you'll maybe only need one or two.

When it comes to paying less for larger multiples... absolutely nothing new about that. Pretty much a staple of many, many, many product lines throughout all sorts of industries... even for services.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: NotifyGrout on February 01, 2022, 05:26:39 PM
Normally I don't pay much attention to GW, but I saw a television ad for their Imperium Magazine/subscription box type service.

An ad on TV. I'm still :o over it. Never thought I'd see the day.

Fauxhammer did a good breakdown of the savings if you buy through it versus buying separately, assuming you want what they are sending: https://www.fauxhammer.com/featured/warhammer-imperium-magazine-contents-list-issues-1-80/

I admit I am tempted to do one or two magazines just to gather some models for Stargrave and such.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on February 02, 2022, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: NotifyGrout on February 01, 2022, 05:26:39 PM
Fauxhammer did a good breakdown of the savings if you buy through it versus buying separately, assuming you want what they are sending: https://www.fauxhammer.com/featured/warhammer-imperium-magazine-contents-list-issues-1-80/

I like the Fauxhammer savings breakdown. They did a good one for the Mortal Realms magazine too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 10, 2022, 12:36:00 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/09/important-pricing-news/

At last, some good news for Aussies, not that I've felt the need to get direct from geedubs for a while.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 10, 2022, 04:41:31 AM
Hooray so instead of paying a 50% increase in price (generous) it's only 45%, lol
Still nice to know.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 10, 2022, 05:32:31 PM
I always love these articles...the "we've been forced to..." approach.  Gotta love it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: MagpieJono on February 10, 2022, 07:37:55 PM
Wonder why they're putting Blood Bowl teams up 20%?
Seems a bit steep.
Also why Blood Bowl teams and not Warcry or Underworlds warbands.
Very odd.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on February 11, 2022, 12:12:46 AM
Quote from: Elbows on February 10, 2022, 05:32:31 PM
I always love these articles...the "we've been forced to..." approach.  Gotta love it.

Not sure if everyone is aware, but the UK has been hit by a rather large energy bill rise. People can hand-wave it away if they want, but a local shop owner (2nd hand stuff and antiques including some GW items) told me their leccy bill has doubled. I would say his store is about the same size as a typical GW store.

GW has 130+ stores in the UK, plus 'the' factory. From what I have heard, they recently invested in bringing in all of the production AND production of books. So an increase in overheads there, especially as that will require more leccy. Essentially, no more outsourcing to China by the sounds of things. They have mainly done that for books and terrain after a few lessons with miniatures learned the hard way. There is both good and bad involved to that, they have to pay British wages, so minimum wage etc rather than use Chinese factory prices incorporating far cheaper worker wages.

In fact, one of the suggestions that the WHQuest:Cursed City game had to be dropped was to do with some sort of law about contents from mixed countries in one box... which turns out to be more accurate than the one about it being a copyright strike as it's coming back unchanged, which puts more credit to that.

On top of all of that, there are the pandemic and Brexit related increased costs in the UK. Which is all important now as all of the products will be made and shipped from here/there (depending upon where you are situated).

Not trying to rubbish any cost argument - that will just go on forever and ever with people never agreeing and entirely pointless IMHO, but to suggest they don't have to put prices up with the increase in power (gas and electric) costs in the UK whilst being a company with shareholders is somewhat unrealistic thinking.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 11, 2022, 03:58:42 AM
Sure, but I can't help but look at all of the other UK miniatures companies I buy from...who are not increasing prices.

There's also the subtext that GW was barely making a buck on these boxes...when asking $60 USD for two sprues of plastic...as if they're being "forced" to charge prices to even break even or make a buck, etc.  From a company with year over year record breaking growth, the top performing stock in the country, etc.

So while I understand there are some legitimate "options" for the why prices would go up, that's all predicated on their prices not being insane in the first place - which is the part I don't buy.

As a consumer, I don't care about GW's "overhead" or how they justify their costs.  A plastic soldier is either worth the money or its not.  But when I can buy stuff from Fireforge, Victrix, Frostgrave, Oathmark, Plastic Soldier Company, etc. all...for the same price as 2-3 years ago, I don't buy GW's claims.  As you said, it's an argument that will never end - but a company making record-breaking profits for its investors?  I'm not buying the hardship they're suddenly under.

If GW is too big of a company and buckling under its own weight (which I doubt), then they need to restructure.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jetengine on February 11, 2022, 08:28:17 AM
The only other company I'm aware of increasing prices is Ral Partha, but considering nearly everything they stock is metal and possibly cast in the USA I'm not exactly surprised.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on February 11, 2022, 10:41:29 AM
I think it's pretty cool of GW to get their production back to the UK, especially from a shipping / "green" point of view.
( so far politics ).
I think the stockholders are essentially the need for GW to increase those prices. They sure have much overhead and casting capicity can be a problem too but once a steel mold has been made it's just a matter of pushing the button and getting  2 or 3 high school students counting out and putting the sprues into blisters and boxes.
But after all, it's a hobby and unfortunately for the smaller manufacturers, if/when there are bills to be paid the hobby comes last  :?.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 11, 2022, 02:31:24 PM
It is just too early to make the "but other UK manufacturers aren't putting prices up" argument.

The energy price cap that protects consumers and businesses from massive bill increases is still in place. Most people's bills have gone up significantly, because it was uncompetitive to set tariffs at the cap before the crisis developed, but they've only gone up as high as the cap allowed for. So the main hit of the crisis so far has fallen on the small energy companies (over a dozen, I believe, are now out of business) rather than consumers.

That'll change when the price cap is lifted. Then it'll be homes and businesses taking the hit.

GW is big enough that it can act now. The tighter your profit margins, the stronger the incentive to put up prices only when you have to.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on February 11, 2022, 02:56:36 PM
Both Pendraken
http://www.pendraken.co.uk/blog/http:/89204c.39.ekm.shop/blog/price-increase-coming-on-february-1st/

And Kallistra
https://www.kallistra.co.uk/ have increased prices.

I can't remember if Alternative Armies announced a rise, but their Erin range returned recently at higher than before.

They won't be the last. GW tends to act as a lightning rod for this (because they're big, high profile and charge a lot already) but where they lead everyone else will follow. GWs will be at least partly driven by the needs of shareholders, smaller wargames companies may be able to "absorb" costs (take the financial hit personally rather than pass on to customers) for longer but 7.5% inflation in the UK is going to make our toys more expensive across the board sooner or later. :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on February 11, 2022, 04:09:09 PM
I never got the GW too expensive line.  Compared to historicals they are higher but compared to many other fantasy lines they are similar or even less.  eg Punga miniatures Blood Bowl compared to the GW ones are much more expensive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on February 11, 2022, 04:51:03 PM
There is a general price hike in raw materials in every sector which means end products get more expensive as well. So I'm not surprised miniature companies are raising prices as well.
Since I'm in the wargaming hobby, GW always seemed overpriced and I don't think that will change anytime soon...
Fortunately if one is not into their specific games or armies, there are a lot of good alternatives.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on February 12, 2022, 11:03:56 AM
I was reading this community update

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/11/range-rotation-is-coming-to-warhammer-40000-this-is-what-it-means-for-you/

which is fair enough...but I was shocked to see that the Space Wolf Rune Priest was still in production at all- he was in the 2nd edition codex! what a lovely model bur he must be tiny compared to his modern comrades. I contemplated picking him up but I will.not be buying a Finecast version and the ebay prices for the metal original ar even higher than the GW resin one!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: ErikB on February 12, 2022, 05:19:13 PM
I like our wargames hobby but, honestly, learning about GW's business practices, how world events affect the economic and materials terrain, how transportation vs local production decisions get made, all of this is an even more fascinating strategy game than any other.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 17, 2022, 12:21:31 AM
https://www.warhammerstormbringer.com/

Looks like they're doing another Mortal Realms, but with more model variety? Might be interesting for painters or people who want to dip their toes into specific armies without getting a whole lot, idk.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on February 20, 2022, 11:57:19 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on February 17, 2022, 12:21:31 AM
https://www.warhammerstormbringer.com/

Looks like they're doing another Mortal Realms, but with more model variety? Might be interesting for painters or people who want to dip their toes into specific armies without getting a whole lot, idk.

Is this actually out yet? Says 16th Feb, but the usual haunts didn't have it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 20, 2022, 11:57:00 PM
Quote from: nozza_uk on February 20, 2022, 11:57:19 AM
Is this actually out yet? Says 16th Feb, but the usual haunts didn't have it.

It's in trial mode right now, so they're checking interest with online subscriptions and a limited release before they roll it out to more places, from what I've heard.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 21, 2022, 03:21:54 AM
Wish they would do these down under.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on February 21, 2022, 06:24:37 AM
Mortal Realms came out down under just as covid began to show up. They even had an ad on tv for a while. I picked up the first issue at a newsagent, but then things got hairy and I didn't grab the others. Not sure if the 40k ones were popular enough to make it here.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on February 21, 2022, 09:27:38 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on February 20, 2022, 11:57:00 PM
It's in trial mode right now, so they're checking interest with online subscriptions and a limited release before they roll it out to more places, from what I've heard.

Darn. I'd buy a couple of issue 2 for the ten Gutrippaz, as you can never have enough Orcs  ;)

If anyone is interested, I might have some unopened Mortal Realms magazines that I'd be happy to sell on. Let me know and I'll see what I've got.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 21, 2022, 08:44:31 PM
First Ash Waste Nomad sighted.

Close to being good, but I don't like the (presumably) water pipe thingy around the legs. I'm guessing there'll be some very good kitbash possibilities with the Cawdor and perhaps Krieg kits, though.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/0ZoIlJOKz91zLhon.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 21, 2022, 09:45:41 PM
Still waiting on a Bull Gorg miniature myself. Easy to kitbash that though with the Ogryns now I imagine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 21, 2022, 09:50:17 PM
Quote from: beefcake on March 21, 2022, 09:45:41 PM
Still waiting on a Bull Gorg miniature myself. Easy to kitbash that though with the Ogryns now I imagine.

Indeed - lots of the big Nurgle guys are also useful. Here is John Blanche's attempt, which now resides happily in my collection, well out of reach of my 3.5 yr old.  8)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2D0cx3H6vNk/UhyRU3b9NNI/AAAAAAAACgI/VszxKfFyHbc/s1600/IMG_4766.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 21, 2022, 09:53:31 PM
That probably set you back a pretty penny? Nice. I may see if I can get some cheap bits of ogryns and make my own.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 21, 2022, 10:07:01 PM
Ha, well, it certainly wasn't a couple of quid. But it wasn't any more quid than if I'd bought the bits, built the conversion, and paid a pro painter to paint it.

I could see Forgeworld possibly putting out a Bull Gorg type add-on character in the future, actually. He's a famous enough Necromunda character. I've no idea if he's appeared in the endless series of faction books. But I guess we'll have to see if GW ever return to a focus on the underhive after the shift to the Ash Waste setting.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 21, 2022, 10:15:55 PM
Yeah. Looks like they are moving away from the hive for the time being. Bull Gorg was my favourite fluff from the original rulebooks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 24, 2022, 08:49:29 AM
Ash Wastes box is better than that preview mini suggested, I'd say. The giant flea riders are great!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/24/necromunda-ash-wastes-revealed-in-full-at-adepticon/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/24/necromunda-ash-wastes-revealed-in-full-at-adepticon/)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on March 24, 2022, 08:53:56 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on March 24, 2022, 08:49:29 AM
Ash Wastes box is better than that preview mini suggested, I'd say. The giant flea riders are great!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/24/necromunda-ash-wastes-revealed-in-full-at-adepticon/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/24/necromunda-ash-wastes-revealed-in-full-at-adepticon/)

OK… this has me stunned. GW has made some things I really like this time. Fair play to them. It is a shame I still hate their business practices but I have to give credit where credit is due. The buildings look great, the flea riders look awesome, the buggies are kind of neat. But I also suspect it will all be more expensive than I would want to pay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on March 24, 2022, 09:02:17 AM
yup, like that box - I'm not too bothered about the minis BUT the terrain is very neat.

I am very impressed by the horus heresy cinematic trailer - very shiny.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 24, 2022, 09:02:39 AM
Flea riders very nice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on March 24, 2022, 09:28:50 AM
Quote
But I also suspect it will all be more expensive than I would want to pay.

True, too true. It does look very nice though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 25, 2022, 11:07:04 PM
The other thing announced at Adepticon that caught my eye was the new box of Mark VI armour Marines (Beakies) for Horus Heresy.

They are more the scale of modern 40k so won't mix in with the RTB01 Marines, but still it's a welcome addition.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 01, 2022, 11:14:21 AM
Uh... squats.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on April 01, 2022, 12:25:39 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 01, 2022, 11:14:21 AM
Uh... squats.

remember the date...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on April 01, 2022, 04:59:40 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on April 01, 2022, 12:25:39 PM
remember the date...

So you're saying we're not getting deadly Squats, but diddly-squat?  o_o ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 01, 2022, 05:50:35 PM
The better joke would be if they announced on April 1st but it turned out to be true.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on April 01, 2022, 09:23:47 PM
Well we already have Squats in Necromunda so getting new minis isnt to far out there...and the video is a bit to well done for a joke...Then again...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on April 02, 2022, 09:59:16 AM
Considering how well Space Dwarfs sell for other companies I would not be surprised by their return.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 02, 2022, 05:06:15 PM
Unless they're doing a multi-day April Fool, they claim they are back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBFgZzYEr-8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBFgZzYEr-8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 02, 2022, 05:13:09 PM
He looks pretty cool.

Squats are an old faction that I'd happily see return with renewed fluff as I don't think they ever really nailed them down in the past.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 02, 2022, 05:17:43 PM
I converted a couple of their AOS dwarfs to more SF ones, which mostly involved removing a lot of rivets and using heads from the Wargames Atlantic box set. It will be nice not to have to do that again ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 02, 2022, 06:13:16 PM
I guess the question is will this just be a Kill Team or a full army...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ewart on April 02, 2022, 06:21:37 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on April 02, 2022, 06:13:16 PM
I guess the question is will this just be a Kill Team or a full army...

From what Warhammer Community website is saying it’s a brand new faction. With full fluff. I’d suggest it will be a full army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 02, 2022, 08:08:14 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on April 02, 2022, 05:13:09 PM
He looks pretty cool.

Squats are an old faction that I'd happily see return with renewed fluff as I don't think they ever really nailed them down in the past.

Agreed. I was once told (no idea if this is true) by an ex-GW guy that the Squats had grown to a full-blown faction due to sales of the early minis rather than any kind of plan. Once GW decided to give complex fluff to the Imperium, Orks, Eldar, and Chaos, the Squats were supposed to be like Ogryns and Beastmen, a sub-faction.
Space Marine 2nd ed. ("Ork and Squat Warlords") tried to reconcile the Dour-Space-Dwarf and Crazy-Biker sides to the Squat fluff but it still wasn't very thought through if I remember correctly.

I don't need a Squat army, but it'll be interesting to see what they do with the fluff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 02, 2022, 08:21:59 PM
They must have their chopper bikes though ... someone reassure me of that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on April 02, 2022, 08:27:16 PM
Colour me intrigued! I still have a couple of unpainted squats from ye olden dayes, but these might be interesting, too.

I wonder what their fluff will be. From the looks of arms and armour, those could work well as a Tau Empire "satrapy" force, or be a "human high tech" style force without all those neo-feudal, pseudo-medieval trappings of the imperium.

In any case, I'd be interested in a box at least to hold the fort in the abhuman enclave on Necromunda.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on April 03, 2022, 03:38:18 AM
Very intrigued.  Probably wouldn't go for an army as I have not been active in 40K for quite awhile but depending on the models it could entice me back in.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 03, 2022, 06:19:05 AM
That guy looks great. Squats never interested me before but I really like this aesthetic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on April 03, 2022, 07:46:30 AM
So the Leagues of Votann are appearing, and the April 1 news was a double bluff.
Curious to see how this will pan out.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 03, 2022, 09:27:24 AM
My only problem is that GW will saddle them with one of those stupid modern names like they have for Eldar, Orks and whatever. I wonder what they will get saddled with Asquats, Aminumius or some other such claptrap  lol

It would be nice to them back though :D

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 03, 2022, 09:50:35 AM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on April 03, 2022, 09:27:24 AM
My only problem is that GW will saddle them with one of those stupid modern names like they have for Eldar, Orks and whatever. I wonder what they will get saddled with Asquats, Aminumius or some other such claptrap

GW already said...

Quote
And while those nasty Necromundans still call them Squats, that’s not at all how they refer to themselves. These warriors have a long and proud martial history, and to those who aren’t on their bad side, they’re known as the Leagues of Votann – though they refer to themselves as Kin.

Sounds ok to me as Squat was only really ever going to be a derogatory term for them. I assume Votann is some ancestor for their founding or some such.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 03, 2022, 10:05:37 AM
Not the League of Lollipop?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 03, 2022, 10:13:33 AM
 
Quote from: Cubs on April 03, 2022, 10:05:37 AM
Not the League of Lollipop?

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on April 03, 2022, 10:35:30 AM
Quote
Not the League of Lollipop?

Only if they are easily licked!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 03, 2022, 10:45:28 AM
Picture up over at warhammer community

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/MHlBW3rs5ldMmdkm.jpg)

Mix of styles, but - separate toes on the boots  :o. Annoying to know you'll be greenstuffing a model before it's even been released :(

Although perhaps it's meant to be a cyborg type thing?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on April 03, 2022, 06:32:21 PM
I put my money on this guy having bionic feet, which in GW style almost always have some suggestion of toes on them. I'm also betting not the entire faction to have bionic feet, so what their regular style looks like remains to be seen.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 03, 2022, 08:14:53 PM
I really hope this is a case of various minis in a unit having various bionic bits, and not a case of Skitaari "oooh the environment is so dangerous we chopped our feet off" nonsense.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on April 05, 2022, 09:08:28 PM
I like the look of the Sq...Voltann guy, looking forward to seeing more models- characters and some helmeted heads etc and definitely what they do with Vehicles.The feet are weird, I assumed they were some sort of magnetic boots but not sure why they have separate toes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 05, 2022, 09:26:10 PM
Yeah the feet do look a bit odd...maybe they are bionic?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on April 06, 2022, 11:22:18 AM
I'm kind of interested to see the rest of these, although I'm assuming scale creep will mean these "squats" will now be the size of a RT Guardsman.  :?

Regarding the toes, am I the only one who'd be tempted to paint nail polish on them..?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on April 06, 2022, 11:51:48 AM
Looks a bit meh to me. Too generically sci-fi  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Spinal Tap on April 06, 2022, 02:31:49 PM
Quote from: OSHIROmodels on April 06, 2022, 11:51:48 AM
Looks a bit meh to me. Too generically sci-fi  :?

In agreement with this.

I currently have a soft spot for the Wargames Atlantic Space Dwarfs (Dwarves?) although they could do with a little more variety on the sprues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 07, 2022, 05:38:29 AM
While Squats coming back means nothing to me...I'm also in the "meh" camp.  I didn't like the poorly sculpted Necromunda reboot figure, but this one seems like he just went to Games-Workshop-R-Us...and looks like a very generic mix of other GW aesthetics with very little to make it stand out.

I also...completely agree these are going to be surprisingly large models, despite being "Squats".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on April 07, 2022, 09:06:05 AM
It would be nice to see the squats back again , but I’m wondering if a more ragged or industrial look would of been better? Squat pirates perhaps?
I also was looking at the plastic ork box set from that era an noticed how similar it was to the squats with a jerkin effect torso , bolters and plasma cannon .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 07, 2022, 09:21:40 AM
I like the idea of squat pirates.
Maybe different factions
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on April 07, 2022, 10:30:38 AM
Perhaps the issue is that in the 20 year gap, GW got outpaced by other companies wanting to do squats.
there are a dozen companies with fully fleshed out "not squat" ranges, and a handful producing in plastic already. Mantic have been doing it for years now.

GW are banking on nostalgia, But in this case it's a nostalgia market that has been well and truly tapped in the decades since the squats got squatted.
So i suppose they sort of have to do something different with them beyond a straight reboot, But what do you do? pirates? too close to the AOS sky dwarves. Miners? genestealer cults have that aesthetic ties down. High tech and sleek? Tau took that spot. Space vikings? Can anyone else hear wolves.

I'm curious to see what they do with them as a range, But I think they're going to struggle to overcome that initial issue of "what do we do with them" that caused the designers to abandon them in the first place. evidently they have SOMETHING, But personally I think their best bet is to cut ties with the old idea of squats completely.

Curiously the necromunda squat models are far closer to the old squats in style, So maybe this single mini is in fact a special variety of squat and the bulk of the release will look a bit more squat-y.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 07, 2022, 12:11:59 PM
I'd go with the biker gang aesthetic. They have the bellies and beards and the Squat Bikers are a well-loved thing. Maybe smugglers, with biker gang flavour?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Shahbahraz on April 08, 2022, 11:28:02 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 07, 2022, 12:11:59 PM
I'd go with the biker gang aesthetic. They have the bellies and beards and the Squat Bikers are a well-loved thing. Maybe smugglers, with biker gang flavour?

High Grav genetically modded asteroid miners... 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on April 09, 2022, 11:07:17 AM
Wow made to order space marines £21 a pop 😂😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on April 09, 2022, 11:33:00 AM
Yeah £21.00 for a nineties space marine captain... That has me gobsmacked to be honest. I bought one of those shown for eight quid on ebay last year!
Suddenly the ebay silly prices for these models are cheaper!
For now...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 09, 2022, 01:03:46 PM
Quote from: westwaller on April 09, 2022, 11:33:00 AM
Yeah £21.00 for a nineties space marine captain... That has me gobsmacked to be honest. I bought one of those shown for eight quid on ebay last year!
Suddenly the ebay silly prices for these models are cheaper!
For now...

WOW, I bet its failcast as well, that shite I will not buy, or handle even if free :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 09, 2022, 01:24:53 PM
I dunno, seems reasonable when compared to some of the new Tryanid stuff. Yours for a mere £312.50  :o

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/tyranid-harridan-gw-2022


(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99860106024_TYRHarridanGargoyleClustersLead.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 09, 2022, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: zemjw on April 09, 2022, 01:24:53 PM
I dunno, seems reasonable when compared to some of the new Tryanid stuff. Yours for a mere £312.50  :o

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/tyranid-harridan-gw-2022


(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99860106024_TYRHarridanGargoyleClustersLead.jpg)

Feck me! :o

https://www.dungeonland.co.uk/home/Dungeons-&-Lasers-Xenodragon-p382961524 25 quid or so from dungeons and lasers

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on April 09, 2022, 02:35:38 PM
I think the marines are cast in metal? I’m sure warlord cast GWs metals for them?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on April 09, 2022, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on April 09, 2022, 02:35:38 PM
I think the marines are cast in metal? I’m sure warlord cast GWs metals for them?

Yeah I looked, they are. If Warlord cast them, the originals from the 90s on ebay are probably better cast  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on April 09, 2022, 04:57:32 PM
Agreed! Warlords metals are pretty bad, as are Perry’s….
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on April 10, 2022, 01:36:34 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on April 09, 2022, 02:35:38 PM
I think the marines are cast in metal? I’m sure warlord cast GWs metals for them?

I think you are right. I got a couple of classic Eldar on the Made to Order type thing a year or so ago and they were metal (thankfully)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 10, 2022, 03:05:32 PM
Quote from: Sir_Theo on April 10, 2022, 01:36:34 PM
I think you are right. I got a couple of classic Eldar on the Made to Order type thing a year or so ago and they were metal (thankfully)

Well thank god for that  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on April 10, 2022, 07:39:08 PM
Usually it is in the description what they are made of.
Like this:
Quote
This finely detailed miniature comes in two components – a metal miniature and a plastic backpack. It is supplied with a Citadel 32mm Round base.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on April 10, 2022, 08:56:08 PM
It's a good thing they aren't resin - if they were they'd cost more than cocaine weight for weight.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on April 10, 2022, 10:11:49 PM
Quote
It's a good thing they aren't resin - if they were they'd cost more than cocaine weight for weight.

I'm sorry I don't know what you pay for coke. :D
The only time I tried sniffing it, the bubbles went right up me nose. lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 10, 2022, 10:14:00 PM
 lol Blimey that burns that does. I used to put fizzzy drinks in a cycling bottle until one day I pulled the cap up with my teeth and the gas shot into my mouth and out my nose.  :'( lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on April 10, 2022, 10:16:40 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on April 10, 2022, 10:14:00 PM
shot into my mouth and out my nose.  :'( lol

I normally have to pay extra for that...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on April 11, 2022, 07:19:45 AM
Quote
lol Blimey that burns that does. I used to put fizzzy drinks in a cycling bottle until one day I pulled the cap up with my teeth and the gas shot into my mouth and out my nose.  :'( lol

 lol lol lol

I did similar with a bottle of Orangina.
Mistakes:-
1) Opened it, only to THEN be told, 'You're supposed to shake the bottle'
2) Place thumb over top of bottle & shake said bottle.
3) Feel pressure building up under thumb & decide to start drinking.
4) Orangina jet washes my mouth & proceeds to exit ANY available way;
    back out of mouth, down throat & through both nostrils.
5) Attempt to take on air at the same time.
6) Expecting help & sympathy from my 'friends' who are too busy wetting
     themselves with laughter.
                :o :o :o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 11, 2022, 08:20:20 AM
Quote from: has.been on April 11, 2022, 07:19:45 AM
I did similar with a bottle of Orangina.

Doh!  lol lol

The new Norse Bloodbowl team look pretty cool, it'd be good if GW did some marauders like that or dare I say it a Norse faction for the new Fantasy.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/10/sunday-preview-beer-brutality-and-blood-bowl/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on April 11, 2022, 04:23:52 PM
Really liking the look of that necromunda land train! I'm just afraid, given GWs current bizarre prices, How much the beast is gonna be.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on April 11, 2022, 04:34:48 PM
Im hoping the land train comes with out the containers as I already have 8 of them to build, but I reckon about 50 squids for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 12, 2022, 07:35:05 AM
It looks cool but seems to be Necromunda is now getting far from the small group of minis to play a game. Looks like a fun mad max style thing though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: diehard on April 12, 2022, 08:25:45 AM
If I see more vehicles added then I might be a little more interested but as to the giant fleas will pass. Train does look pretty cool though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 12, 2022, 10:14:38 PM
Quote from: beefcake on April 12, 2022, 07:35:05 AM
It looks cool but seems to be Necromunda is now getting far from the small group of minis to play a game. Looks like a fun mad max style thing though.

It'll be interesting to see if this is really a stand-alone game in the same setting, won't it? I am wondering how GW will integrate the hive/wastes. For example, if I spend lots of creds gearing up for the Wastes (hiring Coin Guild vehicles and buying buggies, all of which don't seem to be useful on a standard hive gameboard), will it ever be worth my while moving my gang back into Hive warfare? 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on April 13, 2022, 01:53:39 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on April 12, 2022, 10:14:38 PM
It'll be interesting to see if this is really a stand-alone game in the same setting, won't it? I am wondering how GW will integrate the hive/wastes. For example, if I spend lots of creds gearing up for the Wastes (hiring Coin Guild vehicles and buying buggies, all of which don't seem to be useful on a standard hive gameboard), will it ever be worth my while moving my gang back into Hive warfare? 

In my experience the game is heavily reliant to having an arbitrator for campaign play, who acts almost like a GM in an RPG. He can help with the transition between settings, like selling hauling rigs, if there are no rules for this in the book(s).
Also I always thought about the various extra books, beside the core rule book and the underhive gangs book, as supplementary books. Not necessary but they can expand the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: NotifyGrout on April 15, 2022, 12:24:09 AM
I'm annoyed that my local Barnes and Noble rapidly sold out of issues 10 and 11 of Imperium. Meanwhile, the LGS that carries it still hasn't gotten anything later than Issue 5  :-[

I want less than half of everything that comes with it, so subscribing is not an optimal choice for me (especially since that money is going to Warzone Eternal's KS when that drops :D )
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 19, 2022, 12:13:36 AM
A belt-fed rocket launcher wielded by a tough lady on a souped-up quad. I'm not sure I'll buy it, but I love that it exists.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/M2Do5bhlnlRn52lH.jpg)

This also makes me think of a story my grandfather told me, of an enthusiastic US officer fitting some kind of cannon into the nose of my granddad's Catalina flying boat (he wanted something with a big gun that could fire upwards from the sea to hit Japanese coastal bunkers well-protected by overhanging cliff - don't ask me for any more details). No time for proper testing apparently  o_o, so off they went, only to discover that the physics of the gun's firing caused the plane to stop dead in its tracks in the water in front of the IJN position. I have no idea if this is a true story, but I feel sorry the poor guy driving the quad. 

Edit: d'oh, the rocket launcher'd be recoilless, wouldn't it? Ignore me  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: diehard on April 19, 2022, 05:16:10 AM
While the quads (and to some extent the terrain) I kind of like (not enough to buy it though) they really won't catch my real interest until they come up with cars and/or trucks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on April 19, 2022, 08:59:00 AM
 For the ash wasted to be pretty deadly lots of the figures seem to have a lot of bare skin showing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on April 19, 2022, 10:56:45 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on April 12, 2022, 10:14:38 PM
It'll be interesting to see if this is really a stand-alone game in the same setting, won't it? I am wondering how GW will integrate the hive/wastes. For example, if I spend lots of creds gearing up for the Wastes (hiring Coin Guild vehicles and buying buggies, all of which don't seem to be useful on a standard hive gameboard), will it ever be worth my while moving my gang back into Hive warfare?

Fun fact: Gorka Morka was originally intended to be an Ash Wastes game, to complement (the first) Necromunda. The original plan was to integrate it with Necromunda proper, to allow gangs to venture outside of the underhive. I can't remember what the reason was to change the setting to Angelis, but the origin can still be seen in several small tidbits in the rules and fluff of Necromunda. Especially Outlanders, where you can actually hire an Ashwaste Nomad Guide (or was it a tracker?) as a mercenary. Of course he's of little use within the Hive, but I like the fact that he's still there to hire anyway :)

Quote from: manic _miner on April 19, 2022, 08:59:00 AM
For the ash wasted to be pretty deadly lots of the figures seem to have a lot of bare skin showing.

Agreed. At the time I actually sourced an Ash Waste Nomad from Confrontation, the Necromunda forerunner, to fill this niche, and he was covered head to toes in rags and wrappings, including goggles, almost like a Tusken Raider...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 19, 2022, 08:24:25 PM
There's a bunch of stuff being withdrawn from sale "for a while". The list is here (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=1125463923+4033599123).

There are a couple that I'm almost tempted by, but probably not enough to buy them. They're a bit vague on when they're going, and some of them are already listed as being out of stock online.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 19, 2022, 09:33:13 PM
If they're not ditching those units permanently, maybe they'll move over to Siocast (with an obnoxious Games Workshop name instead), and charge even more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 19, 2022, 09:44:47 PM
Most of them appear to be epicfailcast anyway >:(

Not for me even if they were cheaper lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on April 20, 2022, 06:44:21 AM
Quote
Not for me even if they were cheaper lol
I agree.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 20, 2022, 11:51:59 AM
I'd be interested in the sci fi snakeman, but only if it were metal. And not at that price.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 20, 2022, 04:16:47 PM
Yeah, at a glance I thought they were all failcast, and that's why I assumed they were going to move to something like Siocast to replace it, so they can stop going through a half dozen boxes at the store to find one that isn't awful.  (Yes, that's what they do when you buy finecast in person, lol).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: NotifyGrout on April 29, 2022, 12:00:03 AM
So buying Imperium per-issue here in the States does not seem to be viable.

The local Barnes and Noble carries them, but someone buys up all of the Necron stuff (and the rarer Marine items like the Issue 11 Librarian, which would have been fun to paint) before I ever even see it.

There's a local store that I've bought a couple of issues from, and I'm sure they'd gladly pre-order just the ones I wanted...but they haven't heard anything from their distributors about Imperium since issue 5 :(

I guess I either need to subscribe and later become a hypocrite, selling off the excess later, or just not worry about it. It's almost as if this is by design  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 29, 2022, 02:06:50 AM
Pretty common unfortunately - I've seen a lot of reports of employees buying them up and flipping them on eBay etc.  Not something I find terribly surprising.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 29, 2022, 06:57:34 AM
I found the same things happens with GW store exclusives on their birthdays. I wanted to grab a copy of the Eldar sketchbook, got their early but it was already gone, claimed by a staff member.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on April 29, 2022, 08:37:25 AM
Well, I am getting my copy of Cursed City today, the local game shop is finally getting the new batch
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on May 02, 2022, 11:10:08 PM
And the minis are nice, the reason I got the game mostly, but I have to say that the graphics on those map tiles look a bit rough? I've seen much better ones in older games, what gives?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 03, 2022, 01:05:09 AM
I think you're just seeing the result of modern digital art.  For something like a board game that most people are just buying for the minis - they're skimping hard on the art.  It's a little weird because the art on the Dungeon Bowl stuff looks pretty solid (from what I can see) as it's basically a copy of the old WHQ tiles from the orginal game in the 90's.

I have found the majority of GW art in the latest stuff I own to be very...underwhelming?  I think they put out so much product they're just blazing through digital artists work, and it shows.  I admit I miss the classic Mark Gibbons style stuff.  There's plenty of brilliant fan art out there though :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Verderer on May 03, 2022, 05:55:01 PM
I dunno, it may well be, although the drawings LOOK hand drawn, only a bit rough? Another thing I can't understand about the art is the box cover, it's really rather underwhelming two colour thing, more like a sketch than anything... who thought that was a good idea? Maybe I just don't like the artists' style, but to me it seems poor art-direction.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 04, 2022, 05:39:51 PM
Well the Squat League of Votann trikes are here! I never thought THAT would happen. No wheels, though, and I am trying to decide whether it's for the better or not, currently thinking 'yay' not 'nay'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 04, 2022, 07:59:06 PM
I wasn't expecting a hover trike either! It fits in with the old gyrocopters and airships I think - it seems like a Squattish machine.

Personally, I'm most impressed with the new Chaos Cultists. A much improved version of the Blackstone Fortress ones!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 04, 2022, 09:07:52 PM
All the new Chaos sets look pretty damned good. The Possessed Marines in particular are really great too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 04, 2022, 10:20:36 PM
The face on the new Daemon Prince is awful but the rest look good, in fact the new possessed kinda put me in mind of the classic Chaos Renegades, all twisted by the warp.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 05, 2022, 05:22:26 AM
I'm indifferent on the Squat bike, leaning toward not liking it.

Chaos stuff is exceptionally Chaos, though GW continues to make models I can't see most people painting competently.  The cultist aesthetic is decent, not sure I like it more than the older scrappier dudes.  Matches the BSF expansion box more or less 100% style-wise.

The Chaos spawn/possessed stuff will look 100x better when someone paints them properly grim dark.  I think GW's "box art" painting style doesn't do anything useful with models like that.  If ThirdEyeNuke was still painting, I'd love seein his palette/style on the Chaos gribbly bits.

I'm to the point though where I'd rather they ditch Chaos Space Marines as a faction, and rather go full bore on a full Chaos faction, which can take a smattering of powerful, 10,000+ year old veterans.  I know it won't happen because marines sell, even spikey ones.  I'd just much rather see waves of Chaos beastman, traitor guard, etc. then just...space marines with spikes, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 05, 2022, 06:39:22 AM
Quote from: Elbows on May 05, 2022, 05:22:26 AM
I'm to the point though where I'd rather they ditch Chaos Space Marines as a faction, and rather go full bore on a full Chaos faction, which can take a smattering of powerful, 10,000+ year old veterans.  I know it won't happen because marines sell, even spikey ones.  I'd just much rather see waves of Chaos beastman, traitor guard, etc. then just...space marines with spikes, etc.

Agreed, I'd like to see proper chaotic looking forces, it always seemed odd to me that after all that time in the Eye of Terror and their corruption, the chaos marines still mostly maintained their legions...I think they should have fractured and mixed with all manner of chaos creatures long ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 05, 2022, 05:43:11 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on May 04, 2022, 10:20:36 PM
The face on the new Daemon Prince is awful

Luckily the kit comes with something like 6 heads! Two generics and one themed for each Chaos God. The first generic is probably the one you're talking about (seen more often in the previews, painted mostly white, and yes it's the worst of the lot), but I quite like the other generic (in the 40k preview, painted in a dark rose and kind of goofy, but in a way I enjoy).

The Faction-themed heads are kind of blah to me, though the Khorne one looks alright.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 05, 2022, 06:23:26 PM
I see what you mean though I think the faction themed heads have been photoshopped onto the body so if painted in their own scheme I think they'd look better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 06, 2022, 06:46:33 PM
I've seen enough parts in the previews that I'm seriously wondering if you can make two princes with that set.

What a stupid waste it is to have like, 4-5 pairs of arms and legs, 6 heads, loads of accessories, and only 1 torso. I sincerely hope they're not repeating that nonsense again (though it's all too common even with the newer GW).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 06, 2022, 09:56:13 PM
Yeah, options, while nice, often end up with tons of wasted plastic.  Maybe some ingenious person will make some 3D printed bodies that fit all the stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 07, 2022, 06:20:35 AM
Chaos Dwarfs are back  :D
A Warcry warband has been revealed by GW - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/06/revealed-a-wild-warcry-echoes-across-warhammer-fest/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/06/revealed-a-wild-warcry-echoes-across-warhammer-fest/) - and they are called 'The Horns of Hashut'.
They are described as being human followers of Hashut, who was the CDs' god; the are a vanguard force; and they are in chains, and this could indicate they are slaves, following the CD pattern. And GW couldn't resist pointing out they have tall hats!

Also more Squats (called Squats!) - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/06/revealed-squat-prospectors-hit-the-motherlode-in-the-ash-wastes/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/06/revealed-squat-prospectors-hit-the-motherlode-in-the-ash-wastes/) - as they live on Necromunda, and these are reminiscent of the old models in some ways.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on May 07, 2022, 02:10:20 PM
And, if you want to know what an off-duty Squat miner from Necromunda looks like....

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4805-070522130836.webp)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on May 07, 2022, 03:42:20 PM
Quote from: Mason on May 07, 2022, 02:10:20 PM
And, if you want to know what an off-duty Squat miner from Necromunda looks like....

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/55/4805-070522130836.webp)

 Loved these in Fraggle Rock.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on May 07, 2022, 03:54:06 PM
Made me spit my cider out . now I think they look like a squat slannesh cult .😂
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 07, 2022, 08:48:30 PM
 lol lol lol

Down in Fragglomunda.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 09, 2022, 09:25:35 AM
There's no denying that the Fraggle cave has some eerie similarities with the Underhive...  lol

And yay; Chaos Dwarfs!  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 07, 2022, 09:42:08 PM
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/j9bPts0yE82G1ifz.jpg)

Yes please! So much conversion potential  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 08, 2022, 02:05:55 AM
Pretty damn cool mini in my opinion, I like the badass matron look. The banner appears to be asymmetrically aligned with the torso though, not sure what that is about.

They could have went pinup and didn't, good on them. Speaking as someone who paints plenty of scantily clad miniatures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 08, 2022, 09:20:05 AM
If it were symetrical, it'd look too much like a back-banner, which it isn't; you can see the standard in the base behind the figure.

And is it a female? Couldn't tell to be honest, but I absolutely agree about it being a better mini for not being a pinup.

But does it speak to me? No, not really...  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: diehard on June 08, 2022, 10:27:58 AM
Yes is supposed to be female, her name is Ursula Creed and the specifically refer to "her" in the preview. To each their own but not that impressed. Haven't bought anything GW in ages but still like to look at the models. If I was younger though I might have gotten into the Herasy stuff coming out. Would have been cool though if they made it in a new scale to match the Titans. Yes I did love the old Epic 40K line.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on June 08, 2022, 02:24:48 PM
It's supposed to be Ursula Creed, I believe.
Usurkar Creeds daughter. He died when Cadia blew up, but she still managed to get his coat from the rubble appearantly.  :P

I do like the fluff, coat not witstanding as it is a nice throwback.
It's a good model. Good detail and it should have presence on the battlefield.
Not quite for me, but I see the appeal.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 08, 2022, 03:13:52 PM
I get the fluff, it's solid (that's her daddy's spare coat obviously), but I still don't like the model. Something about the face; it looks too... bland?

No: I guess I'll hold off till they release their CC focussed cousin, Apollo Creed...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pancakeonions on June 08, 2022, 03:29:30 PM
Quote from: JamesValentine on August 21, 2019, 05:37:01 PM
Now we know the origins.


... but which came first...?!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 08, 2022, 05:07:58 PM
I do actually like the fact that she seems ... bland, normal, physically sturdy but unremarkable ... because so many of the models are so far the other way. You could paint her up any way you wanted if you preferred a more eye-catching min.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 08, 2022, 05:33:06 PM
You're absolutely right there.

I mean; I've always advocated more toned down mini's myself; I'm not that onboard with all the munchkin look-at-my-gold-trim-I'm-so-special stuff that's been so prevalent the past decade or so.

But there's just something about the sculpt that's just a bit off to me; can't put my finger on it though...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on June 08, 2022, 06:03:28 PM
If I'd painted it I would have darkened the eyes more to give them depth and more personality.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: diehard on June 08, 2022, 06:18:00 PM
In the preview there's also an alternate head wearing a helmet.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on June 08, 2022, 06:24:41 PM
Quote from: Cubs on June 08, 2022, 05:07:58 PM
I do actually like the fact that she seems ... bland, normal, physically sturdy but unremarkable ... because so many of the models are so far the other way. You could paint her up any way you wanted if you preferred a more eye-catching min.

I agree with Cubs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on June 08, 2022, 06:31:42 PM
Looks great to me. I can see darkening the eyes so they show better at tabletop distance, but the face has a good amount of detail, it's just subtle.

Very difficult to take an average face and apply that late-middle-aged look to it so precisely. Well done that painter.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: The Voivod on June 08, 2022, 08:21:58 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on June 08, 2022, 03:13:52 PM
I get the fluff, it's solid (that's her daddy's spare coat obviously), but I still don't like the model. Something about the face; it looks too... bland?

I don't like the face, but I do think it fits the model. Not an attractive woman, but stern, strong.
She looks the part for an organisation as the Imperial Guard (That other name isn't happening).
She reminds me of the trunchbull from the movie Mathilda.
Not someone you're gonna be keen to argue with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on June 08, 2022, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on June 08, 2022, 09:20:05 AM
If it were symetrical, it'd look too much like a back-banner, which it isn't; you can see the standard in the base behind the figure.

Hahaha, well clearly *I* didn't initially see that. My brain went to 'back standard' rather than 'figure being conveniently posing in front of a placed banner poll'  o_o lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 08, 2022, 08:23:59 PM
Yeah, I couldn't have put it as well as Cubs, but that is a lot about what I liked about this mini. There are so many possibilities - with very little conversion she could be a bounty hunter or a gang boss or, well, the sky is the limit really.

GW are also getting very good at finding ways of making female minis without exaggerating breasts/hips/lips etc., but instead using subtle details. I'm thinking especially of the traitor guard for Blackstone Fortress, but not just them.

I'll be getting that Creed mini... better start putting some coins in the piggy bank now then I guess  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on June 09, 2022, 01:14:56 AM
Lose the wildly over-done base, and lose the "weapon in each hand as I wade into the fight!" and I'd like the model.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on June 09, 2022, 01:18:48 AM
I rather like her;  lose the oversized marshals baton,and a better paint job. Games Workshop has been for awhile in love with pastel shades…
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Simlasa on June 09, 2022, 11:12:58 AM
Please tell me if I'm just totally full of beans...
I've been watching my way through the Marvel/MCU movies for the first time... and I finally hit the Thor movies.
Now... I don't know all that much about GW's AoS setting for Warhammer (what WFB became), but from what little I do know it seems like GW might have taken some inspiration from these movies... the general move from a planet to scattered 'realms', energy weapons, the Stormcast warriors in huge golden suits,... the general space-fantasy feel of it all.
I understand GW's commercial motivation to move WFB toward their better selling (and less generic looking) 40K product... but it seems to me that fluff/visual elements in the Thor movies provided a ready blueprint for doing that.
The timing is about right, with the second Thor movie coming out just a couple years before AoS.
Not that it matters, but am I completely wrong for thinking I see similarities?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 09, 2022, 11:37:02 AM
It seems possible - the first Thor was 2011 I think, and AoS was, what, 2015?

Given that GW concept work is done years in advance of the actual releases, it is possible some of the GW team were thoroughly enjoying their Thor while working on AoS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Duncan McDane on June 09, 2022, 01:05:00 PM
I think the sculpt of that Cadian lady does what it's supposed to do but it doesn't excite me at all. A bit "clinical". And that goes for more of their current sculpts imho. Not really that surprising, when compard to the stuff they released about a year or 2 ago, the Warcry, Necromunda, Warhammer Quest, Underworlds Warbands. I couldn't find the money to keep up ( I tried, though  lol ) but nowadays I see releases and I think: meh. Just more of the same. Even the Ash Wastes don't excite me that much, it feels they could have done so much more with it. And the new Horus Heresy stuff? No, not going to buy into that, bores the ... out of me?
Ah well, at least if gives me time and funds to get a dent in my backlog  ;).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: pancakeonions on June 10, 2022, 05:59:00 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on June 09, 2022, 11:37:02 AM
It seems possible - the first Thor was 2011 I think, and AoS was, what, 2015?

Given that GW concept work is done years in advance of the actual releases, it is possible some of the GW team were thoroughly enjoying their Thor while working on AoS.

I suppose there might be some influences, but I don't really get that vibe...  Maybe more subtle than overt influences?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on June 14, 2022, 08:22:35 AM
Well, they do both have hammers...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on June 17, 2022, 04:13:14 PM
We played quite some Deadzone lately during the global campaign for Magnetar. This was our last game...Plague against Nameles. Fun game, as always!

(https://dub01pap001files.storage.live.com/y4maIXzJtxA8b12H1H7j5UyaGrxXEntXbwlp4FWxaCuv57ChBfxG-iekqnbAiUHcB5NyjF-jTIAq-0SJ13GYd7euyW_gEegnbXGxV46eihywFmxprIRUikBeuxR4wLYGpQnOhUy98hhgCy5EBAHyh7Ila-1vYNrKLoARAtSldPAr-AoTbin-P73k0vO2aW5LDR7?width=1024&height=461&cropmode=none)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 12, 2022, 07:52:31 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/07/11/your-journey-into-the-heart-of-ghur-starts-with-a-look-inside-the-new-warcry-boxed-set/

I haven't really cottoned on to warcry yet, but I like the lizardmen/seraphon ruins wrapped by trees.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on July 12, 2022, 08:05:36 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on July 12, 2022, 07:52:31 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/07/11/your-journey-into-the-heart-of-ghur-starts-with-a-look-inside-the-new-warcry-boxed-set/

I haven't really cottoned on to warcry yet, but I like the lizardmen/seraphon ruins wrapped by trees.

Yeah, it seems GW has been really catching my attention with their terrain lately.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 12, 2022, 03:26:35 PM
While I'm going through the beautifully cathartic process of finally selling off all my 40K stuff (and funding...all my other hobby projects) I really like the look fo the Kroot/Imperial Navy Breachers from the Kill Team announcement - solely for use in other games.  I also like the Underworld Witch Hunter band, looks very useful for Solomon Kane style adventures.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 12, 2022, 10:44:07 PM
I like those Kroot too. I'll be addeing them to my Tau at some stage (looking at expanding my kroot force.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on July 18, 2022, 07:23:45 PM
New votann vehicle

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/sHw76Ylm1HhyWYVP.jpg)

Article here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/07/18/put-pedal-to-the-metal-aboard-the-rugged-leagues-of-votann-sagitaur-atv/

I was ready to not like it, but it actually looks pretty good. Another vehicle to add to the plastic mountain  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on July 18, 2022, 07:30:30 PM
I like it and with the scale creep it’s probably right size fit for normal 28mm sci for figures .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 18, 2022, 08:45:03 PM
Well shit, I really like that.

Sunken rivets for the win  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 18, 2022, 08:53:12 PM
Pretty much like everything about it except the front mounted guns, those are just too silly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 18, 2022, 08:57:37 PM
Quote from: YPU on July 18, 2022, 08:53:12 PM
Pretty much like everything about it except the front mounted guns, those are just too silly.

Grabby arms and a radar for the top gun  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 18, 2022, 09:09:57 PM
I like it and will probably use it alongside some stargrave troopers.

It has a bit of a spacehunter look, is spacehunter had had a budget of more then 50p.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 18, 2022, 09:52:28 PM
I like it, minus the gun-overload.  If it wasn't GW priced, I'd argue it'd be a great 'generic sci-fi vehicle' for a lot of games. But, this will be an $85-100 product, so...pass.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on July 19, 2022, 06:38:16 AM
Quote from: Elbows on July 18, 2022, 09:52:28 PM
I like it, minus the gun-overload.  If it wasn't GW priced, I'd argue it'd be a great 'generic sci-fi vehicle' for a lot of games. But, this will be an $85-100 product, so...pass.

My thoughts echo those of Elbows. Again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on July 19, 2022, 08:27:24 AM
I do love the general aesthetic of that - very sci-fi buggy - but as a combat vehicle I'm afraid my disbelief can only be suspended so far. Why are the front bolters slung so low down that they'll only be able to blast rocks and bushes? SHADDAP! Why are the driver and gunner encased in nice big vulnerable glass bubbles? SHADDAP!  .. etc .. etc ..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 19, 2022, 10:16:43 AM
Oh, but I can see so many purposes for this thing!  :-*

Change out the front heavy bolters with a winch and the top turret with some other equipment and this would make a perfect exploration vehicle. I hate it when they do this, but it must be mine now...  :D

 +++EDIT+++ Just noticed though; what's with the weird bubbling(?) effect on the transparent parts? Their previous canopies were always perfectly clear...  ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 19, 2022, 10:33:21 AM
Quote from: Daeothar on July 19, 2022, 10:16:43 AM
+++EDIT+++ Just noticed though; what's with the weird bubbling(?) effect on the transparent parts? Their previous canopies were always perfectly clear...  ???

Looks like gloss varnish to me  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 19, 2022, 11:01:50 AM
Quote from: OSHIROmodels on July 19, 2022, 10:33:21 AM
Looks like gloss varnish to me  :?

That's what I thought. But then I told myself; a professional outfit like GW would certainly not make such a noob mistake, right? Right?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 19, 2022, 11:02:59 AM
You'd think...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on July 19, 2022, 11:56:12 AM
I'm eerily reminded of the venerable Armadillo from Grenadier's Future Warriors range...

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tpope/sol/grenadier/images/1907.jpg

???

I agree, though, that those heavy bolters look a bit naff down there. A winch would be better, indeed, or maybe a ram-bar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on July 19, 2022, 12:09:48 PM
Quote
I'm eerily reminded of the venerable Armadillo from Grenadier's Future Warriors range...

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tpope/sol/grenadier/images/1907.jpg

Gosh, I used to have one of those. Nobody wanted it, even (reasonably) painted & based.
Ended up practically giving it away.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 19, 2022, 01:12:12 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on July 19, 2022, 10:16:43 AM


 +++EDIT+++ Just noticed though; what's with the weird bubbling(?) effect on the transparent parts? Their previous canopies were always perfectly clear...  ???

If you look on the front bubble, you can see the slight layer marks of a 3d printed master - GW have been using 3d printed masters for a while to get painted examples ready ahead of production.

My theory is that they tried to smooth the clear canopies by painting on a bit of UV resin, And it didn't work amazingly well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on July 19, 2022, 03:31:31 PM
That would be my guess as well, i expect the final product to be fine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 19, 2022, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on July 19, 2022, 01:12:12 PM
If you look on the front bubble, you can see the slight layer marks of a 3d printed master - GW have been using 3d printed masters for a while to get painted examples ready ahead of production.

My theory is that they tried to smooth the clear canopies by painting on a bit of UV resin, And it didn't work amazingly well.

That makes sense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Blackwolf on July 20, 2022, 12:15:01 AM
I would be putting bigger tyres on it,they’re a bit out for ground clearance et cetera.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 20, 2022, 12:37:41 AM
I quite like it. The roll cage looks pointless though as the dome "cockpit" extends beyond it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 21, 2022, 01:16:19 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 20, 2022, 12:37:41 AM
I quite like it. The roll cage looks pointless though as the dome "cockpit" extends beyond it.

Yes, a bit goofy that bit. The rear one is so integrated into the hull you can barely see it!

But then actual roll cages which stuck out might look quite dumb. Rule of cool, I suppose - current version looks alright if you just shut off your brain! lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 21, 2022, 08:34:56 AM
Ah well; rally and touring race cars all have the roll cage on the inside, so I'll roll with it...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 28, 2022, 07:42:59 PM
The new Imperial navy miniatures don't really do it for me - they'll be kinda useful for conversions, but feel like variations on an overdone theme to me - but the Kroot... the Kroot are lovely, aren't they?
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/zVIl2SIqUTfmhjmc.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 28, 2022, 08:29:37 PM
They are, lots more movement than the current boxed set  :-*

However, I'm not crazy on anything else in this Kill Team release, so I should be able to hold out for the year it will take them to be released in their own box.

Checks watch... Is it time yet o_o

However, the budgie on the rifle blade has to go ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on August 28, 2022, 08:50:34 PM
I've always really liked the Kroot. These are excellent.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on August 28, 2022, 09:54:23 PM
Quote from: zemjw on August 28, 2022, 08:29:37 PM
They are, lots more movement than the current boxed set  :-*

However, I'm not crazy on anything else in this Kill Team release, so I should be able to hold out for the year it will take them to be released in their own box.

Checks watch... Is it time yet o_o

However, the budgie on the rifle blade has to go ::)
Agree with all of that!

Most of the silly bits (I include the 4-eyed budgie) will be easy to remove, too. That silly bow thing for example - two snips and it is an ace looking needle rifle or something like that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on August 29, 2022, 06:28:39 AM
I agree with the above (Kroot) comments.
I too will wait until the price for THEM drops. 8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 29, 2022, 07:20:32 AM
Me too. Big Kroot Fan. I've got a Tau army and am really wanting to expand the kroot a lot further. Like the look of the heavy weapon in there.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on August 29, 2022, 03:03:25 PM
Big kroot fan as well, and I love the sculpts overall but something about the weapons isn't doing it for me. They remind me a LOT of the conversions everyone was doing for the kroot mercenary army list ages ago. And I dunno, "looks like a conversion I did from spare parts 15 years ago" just isn't a huge compliment is it?  :? Some of them are more divergent designs and they aren't really that great to me either, very knock of wookie. Still, I havn't been this tempted by GW stuff in ages.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on August 29, 2022, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: YPU on August 29, 2022, 03:03:25 PM
Big kroot fan as well, and I love the sculpts overall but something about the weapons isn't doing it for me. They remind me a LOT of the conversions everyone was doing for the kroot mercenary army list ages ago. And I dunno, "looks like a conversion I did from spare parts 15 years ago" just isn't a huge compliment is it?  :? Some of them are more divergent designs and they aren't really that great to me either, very knock of wookie. Still, I havn't been this tempted by GW stuff in ages.

You've just pinpointed why they aren't doing it for me, despite wanting to like them. In all honesty it feels like alot of 40k stuff lately has had that kind of vibe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on August 29, 2022, 03:31:02 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on August 28, 2022, 09:54:23 PM
That silly bow thing for example - two snips and it is an ace looking needle rifle or something like that.

Turn it through 90 degrees and you have a bowcaster!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on August 29, 2022, 04:14:05 PM
Much as GW and 40K often puts me off, I have to admit I really like the Kroot and this set looks great… except for the bow weapon. I will likely end up trying to justify the costs of these as a holiday present request.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Patrice on August 29, 2022, 07:45:18 PM
The GW - Hachette new edition is now available in bookshops in France.

I don't (and will not) play WH40K, but I bought the first issue (€ 1.99) by curiosity.  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwTdJj0LCH0

https://www.hachette-collections.com/fr-fr/collection-warhammer-imperium/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on August 29, 2022, 08:23:25 PM
Those Kroot look siiiiiiiiiick. Makes me actually not mind that I never bought much of the older versions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 30, 2022, 11:04:49 AM
I waited patiently for ages to get my hands on a couple of Kroot Hounds for use as camp animals for my Tusken Raider force (as per the first couple of episodes of The Book of Boba Fett), and finally blagged a couple for a reasonable price a couple of weeks ago, and now they release plastics that will be widely available for cheap through box-splitters...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 30, 2022, 11:33:49 AM
Quote from: Daeothar on August 30, 2022, 11:04:49 AM
I waited patiently for ages to get my hands on a couple of Kroot Hounds for use as camp animals for my Tusken Raider force (as per the first couple of episodes of The Book of Boba Fett), and finally blagged a couple for a reasonable price a couple of weeks ago, and now they release plastics that will be widely available for cheap through box-splitters...  ::)

I wouldn't be too sure about that. I've just built some of the Kill Team Octarius Orks and the parts for them were spread randomly across three sprues. Not just the parts for an individual figure, but part 1 was next to part 80, which was next to part 23 etc. There were also parts that just seemed to be there to increase the complexity of the layout, eg a grappling hook type thing where one of the prongs was a separate part.

I have read in the past that GW do this to make splitting boxes difficult, and it definitely felt like that was their goal with the Orks. Any splitter trying to sell off individual figures from these kits will have their work cut out, and will charge accordingly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on August 30, 2022, 12:41:26 PM
That's just vile...  lol

I still regularly see sets of Blackstone Fortress sold off in individual parts (or small squads of the same type), but those sets are a couple of years old now, so it's well possible they changed tack in the meantime.

It could also be that the software they use for filling up the sprue space is getting more and more efficient and parts are fitted ever so tightly, like a bits Tetris game?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 31, 2022, 08:33:09 PM
Thus far, all of the Killteam "special" units have come out in their own box later - I believe?  I picked up the Corsairs (read: Eldar Pirates) in their own box recently.

For non-40K game stuff both the Kroot and breachers appeal to me for 40K adjacent gaming.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on September 01, 2022, 05:50:23 AM
Right GW, bring out the Vespid Stingwings next please.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 01, 2022, 08:43:08 AM
Quote from: beefcake on September 01, 2022, 05:50:23 AM
Right GW, bring out the Vespid Stingwings next please.

As much as I'm a kroot fan, I'd love to see the vespid get some attention as well!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on September 03, 2022, 04:26:24 PM
Looking at this tweet, the kroots do come with other weapon options that i might prefer. https://twitter.com/VincentKnotley/status/1565989637205680130?t=Z047g-f-gz-XC-7Wjc_DCw&s=19 (https://twitter.com/VincentKnotley/status/1565989637205680130?t=Z047g-f-gz-XC-7Wjc_DCw&s=19)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on September 03, 2022, 07:13:54 PM
They look better to me, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on September 03, 2022, 08:15:17 PM
Yeah, much better options. Not enough to make me spend £130(*) on it, but it does make buying the box set when it comes out on its own pretty much a sure thing.

(*) I'd thought it was much more expensive than Octarius, but looking back, it's only £5 more. Still not buying it, but not as big a jump as I'd thought.

And yes, I know there's Wayland, but there's more than enough in the paint queue just now. I've only just started the Orks from the Octarius box set I bought in August 2021 ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: manic _miner on September 03, 2022, 10:20:49 PM
 The Kroot are really nice figures.

 Dark Sphere games have the set for £97.50.Still quite high but way better than paying £130 for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on October 07, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
For those wanting a fluff download, Humble Bundle is offering a Rogue Trader and Deathwatch RPG bundle.
https://www.humblebundle.com/books/warhammer-deathwatch-and-rogue-trader-cubicle-7-books?hmb_source=&hmb_medium=product_tile&hmb_campaign=mosaic_section_1_layout_index_1_layout_type_threes_tile_index_1_c_warhammerdeathwatchandroguetradercubicle7_bookbundle

Just purchased it myself.  Hoping there will be some fodder and hooks for small-scope skirmishes, but even if not, I'm quite interested in the Rogue Trader fluff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 08, 2022, 05:41:05 PM
New Cadian plastics. These have been sooooo long in coming I'm actually not sure what I make of them. But they're certainly competently done and a big improvement on what has gone before!
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Ege7QPAwwrrRREvY.jpg)

My lukewarm reaction might just be that they now look so military they won't be great base models for other kitbashes. Some nice looking plastic Kasrkin or whatever they're called coming in Kill Team too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Terry Deathstrike on October 08, 2022, 05:53:10 PM
According to the article (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/08/warhammer-day-reveals-cadia-stands-with-an-all-new-army-set/), the new codex will encourage mixed regiments, including the old catachans.

It would certainly make for an amusing sight seeing the two side by side  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 08, 2022, 06:26:16 PM
Cadia has always been the absolute most boring/lethargic/uninspiring "Guard" pattern, so...even revising an old range, it just leaves me absolutely cold. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on October 08, 2022, 06:53:28 PM
I prefer them to the old ones, But I really just want some new plastic catachans.
These new cadians certainly seem to have more human proportions which I like, But GW are so committed to everything being chunky that the figures are now approaching 40mm to account for that - So either these will be very small to make them human sized next to a marine, or we'll have gone full circle and have marines and guardsman being the same size again.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on October 08, 2022, 07:05:50 PM
These look really nice but I have no desire to buy more IG/AM/WTFE and I suspect you are right:
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on October 08, 2022, 06:53:28 PM
... or we'll have gone full circle and have marines and guardsman being the same size again.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on October 08, 2022, 07:36:56 PM
I'll never understand how the 2003 plastic Cadians get so much stick. Brian Nelson pretty much nailed the brief - chunky toy soldiers with coherent proportions (very much *not* an attempt at human proportions). Ok maybe the heads and helmets are too big compared to the rest of the figure, but that's probably easily done when you're sculpting 3-ups rather than something at scale and you're trying to compensate.

But these new ones... I just don't get it. Something has gone very wrong with GW's 'standard' human dolly. The proportions are so out of whack with what I'd expect of GW figures. They just don't make any internal logic. There's no style - they're being pulled in too many directions, small heads and yet big, chunky details, heroic scale yet not. They're so basic, so every-GW-knockoff-stl-download-ever and just... off.

But what do I know, I like the 2003 cadians. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 08, 2022, 09:36:25 PM
Quote from: Andrew Rae on October 08, 2022, 07:36:56 PM
Something has gone very wrong with GW's 'standard' human dolly. The proportions are so out of whack with what I'd expect of GW figures. They just don't make any internal logic. There's no style - they're being pulled in too many directions, small heads and yet big, chunky details, heroic scale yet not.

Last week I made the (very exciting, to me) discovery that the new Traitor Guard heads fit perfectly for headswaps with the old late-80s Confrontation gangers. I hope that example speaks to your point because they really shouldn't fit. Those first Confrontation gangers were small, and with much more emphasis on correct proportions, as compared to everything else in the RT ranges: they're really unusual in that way. And as everyone knows, GW minis have progressively got larger since then. So how does a 1989 GW mini and a 2022 GW mini have the same size head, especially when the 1989 one does not even have the standard 1989 outsize proportions?

I wonder if the Cadians suffer especially badly with respect to your point though. The "standard" human dolly works alright to my untrained eye for the standard humans: the Underhive scum for example, or the latest traitor guard. But the Cadians are supposed to be ordinary humans and well-equipped body-armoured "future colonial marine" types all at the same time, aren't they? I imagine if they redo the Catachans it may be less of a problem, because if everyone has to look like John Matrix some of those different directions you mention won't apply. Or do you think it is a problem across the board?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on October 10, 2022, 08:17:00 AM
Uh oh; I recently acquired a back-breakingly heavy* bag of Pig Iron Colony heads, which I was planning to use on Cadian bodies, effectively turning them into (bad?) Germans in space. It's a conversion that was done a lot over a decade ago, and one that's always been in the back of my mind.

I ran into an auction of said heads lot and I decided to pick it up for later use, as it was cheap as chips and Cadian bodies are a dime a dozen, right?

Now, I suppose, I'll have to scrounge up enough Cadians to complete that project before they're priced through the roof. Because the current/previous Cadians are now probably OOP and the last couple of years even ubiquitous plastics have proven to become highly collectible once they're no longer produced. Even the despised 2nd ed monopose Space Marines Gretchin and Orks fetch a premium these days ::)

As an aside; I'm sure we'll get used to them eventually, but I'm not certainly not won over by the look of those new Cadians...


* Not really, but there were a lot of heads and exaggeration has a quality all of its own, right?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on October 10, 2022, 05:27:41 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on October 10, 2022, 08:17:00 AM
Now, I suppose, I'll have to scrounge up enough Cadians to complete that project before they're priced through the roof. Because the current/previous Cadians are now probably OOP and the last couple of years even ubiquitous plastics have proven to become highly collectible once they're no longer produced. Even the despised 2nd ed monopose Space Marines Gretchin and Orks fetch a premium these days ::)
Alternatively, you may see people trying to sell off their old Cadians to 'upgrade' to the latest version... possibly. After not seeing not many for sale on the FB For Sale groups I am a member of there are already a a couple of whole armies up in the last couple of days.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on October 10, 2022, 11:45:47 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/10/pull-back-the-vines-and-catch-a-glimpse-of-the-gnarlwoods-illusive-chameleon-skinks/

Well, this is a bit exciting! Not a huge fan of the blowpipes sticking so far out, but at least the seraphon seem to have rediscovered loincloths.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on October 11, 2022, 10:49:55 AM
I'm not that inspired by those Cadians the poses look quite wooden. Seems more of the same but bigger... and more expensive to buy a bit like the newer Ork boys it allows GW to sell more stuff to those who want all new stuff but it doesn't appeal to me.
I don't mind the old Cadians though so...

I do like the new Mark 6 marines so that's something positive i guess. Oh and the Death Corps of Kreig.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: NotifyGrout on October 11, 2022, 03:28:53 PM
Quote from: westwaller on October 11, 2022, 10:49:55 AM
I'm not that inspired by those Cadians the poses look quite wooden. Seems more of the same but bigger... and more expensive to buy a bit like the newer Ork boys it allows GW to sell more stuff to those who want all new stuff but it doesn't appeal to me.
I don't mind the old Cadians though so...

I do like the new Mark 6 marines so that's something positive i guess. Oh and the Death Corps of Kreig.

It would be nice if an old-school tac squad of ten Mark 6 marines with one special weapon and one heavy weapon was readily available. I think it'd be a fun project to recreate one of my RTB01 squads in the new models. I'll probably just buy a squad and bits on eBay.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 11, 2022, 04:51:30 PM
Yeah, that's my plan too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on October 12, 2022, 03:34:46 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on October 10, 2022, 11:45:47 PM
Not a huge fan of the blowpipes sticking so far out, but at least the seraphon seem to have rediscovered loincloths.
I don't mind the longer blowpipes as they can be quite long in reality, although I can see a shorter blowpipe being more robust on the games table.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 25, 2022, 03:45:17 PM
Youtube video with some images of the new guard and the tank

I hadn't expected the guard to be quite so big, although I shouldn't be surprised ::)

More pictures of the tank from GW itself - link (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/24/the-rogal-dorn-battle-tank-crushes-heretics-with-the-power-of-the-praetorian/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCDryRNcRgo
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 25, 2022, 03:50:10 PM
The Christmas Catachan releases look awesome.

(https://external-preview.redd.it/bVWAbxfSwyww9_wmWT3wBI3Eziyi-03IWptw49_IlUQ.jpg?auto=webp&s=6ec67edd4274f8f98b3653543097dcc35c3fc180)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on October 25, 2022, 04:37:13 PM
Anybody here going to ask their wife to get it for her husband, you know... while he's still a child?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on October 25, 2022, 04:41:00 PM
Quote
while he's still a child?

Growing old is compulsory.
Growing up is optional.
 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on October 25, 2022, 06:13:34 PM
As someone who never got into 40K, but kind of enjoyed seeing some of the models over the years (some not so much), I do actually quite like the 'Action Man' (GI Joe to everyone outside the UK) feel of the Imperial Guard - it appeals to my love of toy soldiers after all. But the size ... what are they now, 35mm? 40mm? Wasn't the whole point of making the Space Marines bigger to accentuate the size difference between them and the average human? Where do you put the artillery now, at the bottom of next door's garden?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on October 26, 2022, 06:55:40 AM
I recall the original 'blurb' was along the lines of,
Warfare has not CHANGED (my emphasis) for 40,000 years.
Which resulted in the Space Marine, the ultimate fighting machine.

In the (comparatively) few years since they (GW) seem to have
done little else BUT change the 'ultimate fighting machine'.

Their company, their rules. I even like some of the stuff (Tau & Stunties)
Not the failed WW1 tank designs for Humans, nor the prices, but hey
I'm not forced to buy any of it. There must be a lot who do like & buy it. ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on October 26, 2022, 09:41:52 AM
That guardsman is an absolute unit. I almost wonder if there's a member of the design team secretly upping the scale on everything as a very long winded way to get inquisitor back.
A shame as that height makes them almost ludicrously large compared to any other range.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 26, 2022, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on October 26, 2022, 09:41:52 AM
That guardsman is an absolute unit. I almost wonder if there's a member of the design team secretly upping the scale on everything as a very long winded way to get inquisitor back.

It all makes sense now lol

Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on October 26, 2022, 09:41:52 AM
A shame as that height makes them almost ludicrously large compared to any other range.
Sadly, Star Wars Legion and the new Infinity figures have all shown the same scale creep and I'm fairly sure they'll work alongside each other.

What sort of Game Universe that would create, however, is anyone's guess ???
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on October 26, 2022, 10:29:17 AM
It's a widely known fact that all of those designers and sculptors are members of the Action Man Cabal, secretly working towards bringing back the masculine Barbie dolls from back in the day.

It is foretold that the process will become irriversible once genuine cloth will be used for clothing articles...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on October 26, 2022, 12:00:01 PM
They get much larger and Hasbro will be punting a cease and desist at them for getting to close to their GI Joe and Action man product ranges..

By then it might well be cheaper to just buy GI Joe or action man anyway, and save on painting them..

 ;D

https://www.actionman.com/

https://uk.hasbropulse.com/collections/g-i-joe-toys-action-figures

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 26, 2022, 05:44:01 PM
See at the same time, this doesn't look so bad size wise to me?

(https://i.imgur.com/fvwb2yu.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Minus on October 27, 2022, 02:49:59 AM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on October 26, 2022, 09:41:52 AM
I almost wonder if there's a member of the design team secretly upping the scale on everything as a very long winded way to get inquisitor back.

It's GW, it's to sell more paint right? Which have decreased in size over time haven't they... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 27, 2022, 04:26:30 AM
Quote from: Cubs on October 25, 2022, 06:13:34 PM
As someone who never got into 40K, but kind of enjoyed seeing some of the models over the years (some not so much), I do actually quite like the 'Action Man' (GI Joe to everyone outside the UK) feel of the Imperial Guard - it appeals to my love of toy soldiers after all. But the size ... what are they now, 35mm? 40mm? Wasn't the whole point of making the Space Marines bigger to accentuate the size difference between them and the average human? Where do you put the artillery now, at the bottom of next door's garden?
I just laugh at the thought of those giant artillery canons on the 40K table pointing up to the sky, shooting something the equivalent of about 50m. Some sort of poorly ejactulating giant canon.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 27, 2022, 11:23:24 AM
All of this is once again pointing to the fact that epic is and will always be the best way to play 40k
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 27, 2022, 12:01:21 PM
I'd say Epic is the best way to play actual 40k battles while 40k skirmishes are best with RT.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on October 27, 2022, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: YPU on October 27, 2022, 11:23:24 AM
All of this is once again pointing to the fact that epic is and will always be the best way to play 40k

The irony is that 40k has always been the worst of the 40k setting systems - necromunda/kill team/inquisitor were great for small scale skirmish, Epic/titanicus for massive battles. As a result, 40k has always felt like it can't decide what it wants to be - it flitters between apocalypse sized car parks or trying to be a small platoon game with far too many massive units. The ideal for 40k as a game is to stick to combat patrol sized games and maintain a strong identity rather than stepping on its own toes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 27, 2022, 07:14:54 PM
Someone who was in the GW studio around that time once said to me that the original thinking was more to handle everything above skirmish engagements in 6mm. Fan demand to have the cool stuff in 28mm they were reading about and getting rules for in Adeptus Titanicus and 2nd ed. Space Marine was a significant part of heavy equipment and armoured formations coming into 40k (and drop ships etc. etc. - and I guess Forgeworld nonsense eventually).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 28, 2022, 11:24:32 AM
I listened to an interview with Rick fairly recently where he was talking about the development of 40k and before the game was even released it grew. Apparently, Brian Ansel had the mantra "Sci-Fi never sells" and they only let Rick make the game because they had agreed to when he got the job. But, as it was playtested it became so popular at the studio they expanded it.

It shows when you look at the sales bumpf at the time, in one article it says at most a dozen minis per side yet the mission in RT is much bigger and the campaign from the 1st Book of the Astronomicon is even bigger; apparently Rick wanted to include that in RT but ran out of room.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: eilif on October 28, 2022, 03:37:54 PM
I think we've known for years (decades?) that 40k struggles under the mantle of being a ruleset best suited to squad or platoon level that has somehow ballooned to Company level and even larger with no corresponding streamlining of the rules.  They've made several attempts over the years to scale back to a manageable level of granularity but each time the Codexes and expanions hit you're back to attempting RPG-like levels of flavor with barely manageable layers of rules and options.

I think the 40k system at its' best is old Necromunda (I like NCE version) and a strong attempt was made with Shadow War Armageddon.   

For a big 40k battle that feels like the fluff and plays fast and fun we turn to Grimdark Future.

Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on October 08, 2022, 06:53:28 PM
I prefer them to the old ones, But I really just want some new plastic catachans.
You might like these guys.
https://wargamesatlantic.com/collections/reptilian-overlords/products/spacenam
I was never a fan of Catachans, but they seem like what Catachans should be.
They're also supported by a pretty impressive range of 3d printed options as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: NotifyGrout on October 28, 2022, 05:24:37 PM
Quote from: eilif on October 28, 2022, 03:37:54 PM
I think we've known for years (decades?) that 40k struggles under the mantle of being a ruleset best suited to squad or platoon level that has somehow ballooned to Company level and even larger with no corresponding streamlining of the rules.  They've made several attempts over the years to scale back to a manageable level of granularity but each time the Codexes and expanions hit you're back to attempting RPG-like levels of flavor with barely manageable layers of rules and options.

I think the 40k system at its' best is old Necromunda (I like NCE version) and a strong attempt was made with Shadow War Armageddon.   

For a big 40k battle that feels like the fluff and plays fast and fun we turn to Grimdark Future.
You might like these guys.
https://wargamesatlantic.com/collections/reptilian-overlords/products/spacenam
I was never a fan of Catachans, but they seem like what Catachans should be.
They're also supported by a pretty impressive range of 3d printed options as well.

Agreed. I played a couple of games of 3rd Edition in its earliest days at the platoon level (something like 3-5 squads of troops, plus a few support models/vehicles) and it was actually fun. 2nd Edition works with Necromunda as though it was written for it- it was so much fun. Plenty of room for tactics, tailoring a gang based on improvements, but with just enough chaos to keep things unpredicable.

Another alternative for actual big battles is Warpath: Firefight. Even though it's made more for platoon level, it's significantly faster than 40k. Only issue is figuring out counts-as...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on October 31, 2022, 01:21:23 PM
I recently poked my regular opponent to play a game of Grimdark Future Firefight (the skirmish version of GF), and I fortuitously printed out 4 lists for forces I have in my cabinets. And a good thing, that, because we were able to play 2 games in one evening, with all the normal waffle we tend to throw in, plus the getting the hang of a new rules set.

But considering we were both (mostly) weened on 3rd edition, this was extremely easy going. There is a rulebook (free download, counting 17 pages), but there's also a rules sheet that is just one page. 'Codices' are also just one page. Combine that with your armylist, which is also prints on 1 page, and all the administration required at the table is 3 A4 sheets per side, with the possibility of just 2, if you want to keep the 'codex' out of it (it's not required during play).

And it was the most fun I've had playing (not-)40K since 3rd edition! We hadn't played 40K for about a decade (stopped at the tail end of 5th), but this was such an enjoyable experience, I will be back for more. And all those old-hammer armies I have displayed and am still building? They can now be played as is with these rules.

So yeah; a better 40K experience than 40K I'd say...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dr Mathias on October 31, 2022, 06:20:07 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on October 31, 2022, 01:21:23 PM
And it was the most fun I've had playing (not-)40K since 3rd edition! We hadn't played 40K for about a decade (stopped at the tail end of 5th), but this was such an enjoyable experience, I will be back for more. And all those old-hammer armies I have displayed and am still building? They can now be played as is with these rules.

So yeah; a better 40K experience than 40K I'd say...

Thanks for the recommendation, I simply can't (and won't) keep up with the multitude of books needed to play 40K anymore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: DivisMal on October 31, 2022, 09:52:17 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on October 26, 2022, 10:29:17 AM
It's a widely known fact that all of those designers and sculptors are members of the Action Man Cabal, secretly working towards bringing back the masculine Barbie dolls from back in the day.

It is foretold that the process will become irriversible once genuine cloth will be used for clothing articles...

 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: hubbabubba on November 12, 2022, 01:24:13 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on October 27, 2022, 12:57:37 PM
The irony is that 40k has always been the worst of the 40k setting systems - necromunda/kill team/inquisitor were great for small scale skirmish, Epic/titanicus for massive battles. As a result, 40k has always felt like it can't decide what it wants to be - it flitters between apocalypse sized car parks or trying to be a small platoon game with far too many massive units. The ideal for 40k as a game is to stick to combat patrol sized games and maintain a strong identity rather than stepping on its own toes.

Quoted for truth.
Well said
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 21, 2022, 07:51:14 PM
It is astonishing how hit-and-miss Forgeworld's Necromunda range is (and GW's really, but esp. FW).

But this is proper good Necromunda weirdness in my opinion!

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Q43TW0jS7kz5pAK1.jpg)

And she's got a weirdo Squat sidekick.
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/2JNd9GdhJrH58tHg.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Brummie on November 21, 2022, 08:15:00 PM
I'd just wish they'd bring Epic back.

I've been really put off by how bizarre GW release schedule is. The Space Marine range is wonky. I quite like the height of Primaris, but the range seems wonky with the old marines still about, and a lot of older Marine units not being fully replicated as Primaris.

Now your basic Human is getting almost as tall as a true scale SM, and I'm not taken by these new Cadians, they look too retro-U.S G.I. The Weapons etc have all taken a solid step back (although I like the addition of knee pads. Every soldier should have them).

Wish they'd stuck to the original design but made them more dynamic. I'd heard these were on their way and were looking forward to some new IG, but they're a big disappointment.

Also the Tank is just more daft than usual. 

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: blacksoilbill on November 22, 2022, 05:01:43 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 21, 2022, 07:51:14 PM
But this is proper good Necromunda weirdness in my opinion!
Yes, these are fantastic. It's just a pity they are Forgeworld.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on November 22, 2022, 08:37:07 AM
Quote from: Brummie on November 21, 2022, 08:15:00 PM


Also the Tank is just more daft than usual.

The tank is odd - it has the look of something designed by a dakkadakka comment thread, in which all the "realistic" mistakes of an imperial tank design were corrected, and in the end they just ended up with a WW2 tank with guns bolted on. It seems remarkably at odds with imperial tank design which always felt more interwar than specifically second world war. I almost wander if there wasn't too much consideration given to fan feedback at the expense of a strong creative hand.

The end result just looks like a chunky Cromwell and by extension has the look of a third party "not warhammer" tank.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 24, 2022, 01:41:33 AM
Quote from: blacksoilbill on November 22, 2022, 05:01:43 AM
Yes, these are fantastic. It's just a pity they are Forgeworld.

100%.  I see actual Blanchitsu from those sculpts...and in awfully produced, horribly expensive garbage Forgeworld resin.  Whoops.

PS: With Forgeworld pretending to still be a premium outfit I'm absolutely flabbergasted they don't do high quality resin prints instead of their ancient (and poorly done) resin stuff.  We know they print a lot of test models etc.  You can see in a lot of box art and promo-paint jobs that they're using resin printed minis, etc.  Time to ditch their awful resin and just print stuff.  Same goes for larger models - that should all be printed nowdays instead of cast.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on November 24, 2022, 11:49:58 AM
Quote from: Elbows on November 24, 2022, 01:41:33 AM
100%.  I see actual Blanchitsu from those sculpts...and in awfully produced, horribly expensive garbage Forgeworld resin.  Whoops.

PS: With Forgeworld pretending to still be a premium outfit I'm absolutely flabbergasted they don't do high quality resin prints instead of their ancient (and poorly done) resin stuff.  We know they print a lot of test models etc.  You can see in a lot of box art and promo-paint jobs that they're using resin printed minis, etc.  Time to ditch their awful resin and just print stuff.  Same goes for larger models - that should all be printed nowdays instead of cast.

I doubt it would be time/cost effective given the volume or orders they're likely dealing with.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 24, 2022, 12:24:41 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on November 22, 2022, 08:37:07 AM
The tank is odd - it has the look of something designed by a dakkadakka comment thread, in which all the "realistic" mistakes of an imperial tank design were corrected, and in the end they just ended up with a WW2 tank with guns bolted on. It seems remarkably at odds with imperial tank design which always felt more interwar than specifically second world war. I almost wander if there wasn't too much consideration given to fan feedback at the expense of a strong creative hand.

The end result just looks like a chunky Cromwell and by extension has the look of a third party "not warhammer" tank.

Nearly all their recent vehicles have been somewhat like this. That's not to say all their older designs were amazing (...they weren't), but the new ones do often seem to lack much focus in design or purpose. The Necromunda and Leagues vehicles are at the better end of the scale, I have to admit. By way of example though, I present this:

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120101250_SMPrimarisRepulsorExecutioner01.jpg)

It's got just about every type of weapon on it, for all sorts of different ranges and targets, and all pointing in every direction. Oh, and it transports part of a squad as well.  In terms of "design space" for a faction, this thing's an awkward hog that seems to either do everything competently, or nothing well enough to bother with. It's been out a few years now, and I still haven't warmed to it at all. :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on November 24, 2022, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 24, 2022, 12:24:41 PM
...It's got just about every type of weapon on it, for all sorts of different ranges and targets, and all pointing in every direction. Oh, and it transports part of a squad as well.  In terms of "design space" for a faction, this thing's an awkward hog that seems to either do everything competently, or nothing well enough to bother with...

That reminds of the design process of the M2 Bradley, as presented in the film Pentagon Wars...  lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on November 24, 2022, 12:37:05 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 24, 2022, 12:24:41 PM
Nearly all their recent vehicles have been somewhat like this. That's not to say all their older designs were amazing (...they weren't), but the new ones do often seem to lack much focus in design or purpose. The Necromunda and Leagues vehicles are at the better end of the scale, I have to admit. By way of example though, I present this:

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120101250_SMPrimarisRepulsorExecutioner01.jpg)

It's got just about every type of weapon on it, for all sorts of different ranges and targets, and all pointing in every direction. Oh, and it transports part of a squad as well.  In terms of "design space" for a faction, this thing's an awkward hog that seems to either do everything competently, or nothing well enough to bother with. It's been out a few years now, and I still haven't warmed to it at all. :?

Please don't remind me of that thing  lol I think if you strip it back to its basic hull there's a cool design under there but it just feels like too much, too design by committee. I think it speaks volumes about the failures of the design that I've never actually seen one in the flesh outside of a games workshop display case.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 24, 2022, 01:09:17 PM
I think that for me, the main issue is that while Primaris Marines are clearly “Space Marines 2.0” with many of the original design flaws addressed to a greater extent, that lesson does not seem to have carried over to their vehicles.

Whilst I understand the need to preserve the stylings of the Rhino and Land Raider in Marine vehicles (both for the faction’s design appearance, and for the in-universe STC explanation), I think a great opportunity to have two different styles of chassis for different applications has been missed.

Personally, I’d have had a two types of core chassis (one for tanks and weapon-carriers, and one for transports and command/utility vehicles) and in two different sizes (one large and one small). Whilst GW did do the two sizes, having more core chassis types seems to not have been considered. This is a shame, as it means that opportunity to “re-use” the core for new vehicle designs in future seems to be more limited than it needed to be.

Anyway, grumble over! ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: sir_shvantselot on November 27, 2022, 05:04:25 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on November 24, 2022, 01:09:17 PM
I think that for me, the main issue is that while Primaris Marines are clearly “Space Marines 2.0” with many of the original design flaws addressed to a greater extent, that lesson does not seem to have carried over to their vehicles.

Whilst I understand the need to preserve the stylings of the Rhino and Land Raider in Marine vehicles (both for the faction’s design appearance, and for the in-universe STC explanation), I think a great opportunity to have two different styles of chassis for different applications has been missed.

Personally, I’d have had a two types of core chassis (one for tanks and weapon-carriers, and one for transports and command/utility vehicles) and in two different sizes (one large and one small). Whilst GW did do the two sizes, having more core chassis types seems to not have been considered. This is a shame, as it means that opportunity to “re-use” the core for new vehicle designs in future seems to be more limited than it needed to be.

Anyway, grumble over! ;)

I’ve never had a GW tank. I’m assembling the Horus Heresy core box over Xmas. I’m a bit intimidated by how huge it is. Not just for construction but painting. Enjoyed the Pentagon Wars clip. Never knew of it. Sure that Colonel was on the West Wing when he got older.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 27, 2022, 05:54:37 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on November 24, 2022, 12:34:27 PM
That reminds of the design process of the M2 Bradley, as presented in the film Pentagon Wars...  lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXQ2lO3ieBA)

See I wish we had this kind of silly backstory to the new tanks! it would help give them character which they are currently sorely lacking sadly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fitterpete on November 27, 2022, 11:37:59 PM
I love the 40k vehicles.
I have around 40 or 50 Guard and Marine AFVs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Terry Deathstrike on November 28, 2022, 08:01:50 PM
Not really a fan of the modern GW design philosophy. In my uninformed opinion, it feels like the design studio folks collate a Pinterest board of cool things and then smoosh them together into an incoherent mess.

I wish they still sold the FW Leman Russ variants  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on November 29, 2022, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: Terry Deathstrike on November 28, 2022, 08:01:50 PM
Not really a fan of the modern GW design philosophy. In my uninformed opinion, it feels like the design studio folks collate a Pinterest board of cool things and then smoosh them together into an incoherent mess.
Well, err, that's basically the foundation of all of 40k, WHFB, and AoS settings isn't it? I mean, since the very beginning! Part of the charm, no? o_o

Quote from: Terry Deathstrike on November 28, 2022, 08:01:50 PM
I wish they still sold the FW Leman Russ variants  :'(
Well, some variants like the Vanquisher and the Executioner got rolled into the current plastic kit. However, if you mean hull and turret variants as well, including the Destroyer and Thunderer, then I know what you mean... There were an awful lot of LR variants if you start counting hull mods though, so I can see why keeping them all wasn't sustainable long-term. For me, I was always a bit surprised that there weren't any sort of plastic hull upgrade sprues available, for those who run armoured companies rather than infantry armies. It seems to me to be an "easy" way of adding more variety and a few of the more esoteric weapon options. I suppose they feel it might not sell well enough to make it worthwhile?
I was also somewhat surprised that the Chimera variants (Chimerax, Chimerro, and Chimedon) never got formal 40k models of some sort either (that I recall?), and also that the Griffon mortar carrier never got a plastic version (and ditto the Salamander). Seems a shame, as I would think these would be fairly easy to do!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on November 29, 2022, 11:49:28 AM
Quote from: Terry Deathstrike on November 28, 2022, 08:01:50 PM
Not really a fan of the modern GW design philosophy. In my uninformed opinion, it feels like the design studio folks collate a Pinterest board of cool things and then smoosh them together into an incoherent mess.

I wish they still sold the FW Leman Russ variants  :'(

I think there's absolutely a case of flanderization going on with alot of the main 40k designs, mostly the imperial and chaos stuff. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Terry Deathstrike on November 29, 2022, 08:34:50 PM
Very true, 40k has always been a hodge podge of borrowed designs and ideas.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that it feels like they've moved onto a fresh design philosophy since 8th edition, which clashes with my rose-tinted preference for stuff from 3rd to 5th edition. Newer stuff is designed to replace rather than complement (quite literally in the case of Primaris).

Perhaps the real issue at hand is that I've not a clue what 'design philosophy' actually entails  :D

@Major_Gilbear by variants I mean the proper nerdy stuff like Ryza, Mars and Stygies pattern Leman Russ. I managed to snag an old Leman Russ off ebay in the original box, which states it's a MK VII, which is nice bit of granularity.

These days, it's  an easily copyrighted mess of word soup for their naming conventions.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lovejoy on November 30, 2022, 09:16:54 AM
Quote from: Terry Deathstrike on November 29, 2022, 08:34:50 PM
@Major_Gilbear by variants I mean the proper nerdy stuff like Ryza, Mars and Stygies pattern Leman Russ. I managed to snag an old Leman Russ off ebay in the original box, which states it's a MK VII, which is nice bit of granularity.

You can still get the Mars pattern stuff. Here's one with a Ryza pattern turret:
Mars pattern Russ (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Death-Korps-of-Krieg-Mars-Alpha-Pattern-Leman-Russ-with-Modified-Ryza-Pattern-Turret)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Terry Deathstrike on November 30, 2022, 02:19:02 PM
Quote from: Lovejoy on November 30, 2022, 09:16:54 AM
You can still get the Mars pattern stuff. Here's one with a Ryza pattern turret:
Mars pattern Russ (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Death-Korps-of-Krieg-Mars-Alpha-Pattern-Leman-Russ-with-Modified-Ryza-Pattern-Turret)

So you can  :D

In my defence, they're filed away under Death Korps of Krieg rather than Astra Mili-what-now.

Also 70 quid!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 02, 2022, 01:30:45 PM
GW figure of the year voting now open - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/12/02/miniature-of-the-year-2022-voting-is-now-open/

Huge list to choose from, but no pictures  :? Hope you know your GW figures by name  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 02, 2022, 02:33:36 PM
Weird they didn't include the best miniature of 2022 (admittedly you can't buy one).

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120102136_AzrakhAnnihilatorWHCLeadnew.jpg)

Being a massive Mark Gibbons art fan...this is the best throwback mini they've ever done - and one of the only minis I lust after from GW.  Despite that I still won't pay the silly $85 people want on eBay.

(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2011/1/24/177506_sm-mark%20gibbons.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 02, 2022, 02:45:28 PM
@Elbows - There is a 40k Loot Sharing group on FB, someone on there might part with one for a reasonable price.

Search for the group: 40k Warhammer and general Wargames Trip Loot Sharing
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 02, 2022, 07:36:08 PM
Yeah, that Khorne Terminator is something I always wished they'd make a model of - and, now they have at last, it's behind a paywall of overpriced digital dross that I have less than zero interest in. Fail GW, big fat effing fail.  :-X
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 02, 2022, 07:45:40 PM
I just chuckled that the coolest model they could think to make was a copy of a piece of art from 25 years ago...and it's a banger compared to the stuff they've been putting out lately.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on December 03, 2022, 11:08:29 AM
Quote from: Elbows on December 02, 2022, 02:33:36 PM
Weird they didn't include the best miniature of 2022 (admittedly you can't buy one).

He is on the list: Warhammer+ - World Eaters Terminator Azrakh, The Annihilator
It is really an oversight to not include pics of the entries...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: fred on December 03, 2022, 02:07:01 PM
Anyone up to speed on the talk about a new version of Epic?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 03, 2022, 09:25:15 PM
Quote from: Elbows on December 02, 2022, 02:33:36 PM
... I still won't pay the silly $85 people want on eBay.
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2011/1/24/177506_sm-mark%20gibbons.jpg)

I lucked out and was able to snag me one on the local auction site over here for €40,- , still in its plastic wrap. I didn't know how dear they were at the time, I just knew I needed to have it. The 1998(?) GW catalogue was the first one I owned. It featured this artwork on the cover and it's always been simply awesome!  8)

Now to do it justice...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 03, 2022, 11:08:30 PM
Paint it black and white. True to the source material.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on December 04, 2022, 12:19:53 PM
Quote
Paint it black and white. True to the source material.

Nice idea, followed by Norman horses with green & yellow legs,
as per the Bayeux tapestry.  lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on December 10, 2022, 01:15:07 AM
Quote from: has.been on December 04, 2022, 12:19:53 PM
Nice idea, followed by Norman horses with green & yellow legs,
as per the Bayeux tapestry.  lol lol lol

Bayeux tapestry Bretonnians?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 10, 2022, 04:07:13 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on December 10, 2022, 01:15:07 AM
Bayeux tapestry Bretonnians?

I mean... I've heard of worse themes for a WHFB army!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on December 10, 2022, 09:49:35 PM
Quote
I mean... I've heard of worse themes for a WHFB army!

Oh do tell. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 11, 2022, 06:32:26 PM
Quote from: has.been on December 10, 2022, 09:49:35 PM
Oh do tell. :)
Well there's always the dreaded Primermarines.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: has.been on December 11, 2022, 06:34:21 PM
Quote
Well there's always the dreaded Primermarines.  lol
lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 11, 2022, 07:34:51 PM
Quote from: has.been on December 10, 2022, 09:49:35 PM
Oh do tell. :)
I gave this some thought before posting a reply... The thing is, regardless of what I may think of the theme, doing a whole army like that is a lot of work either way, and is always a passion project. The last thing I'd want to do is post something that might seem unkind about someone's army that they clearly care very much about - that's just unfair and rude.

However, I would call out the many 40k armies that are, erm, let's say very poorly-judged and WW2 themed, with insignia and everything.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on December 12, 2022, 11:40:23 AM
Quote from: has.been on December 10, 2022, 09:49:35 PM
Oh do tell. :)

I don't know about WHFB armys but this (or something very similar) went around as a cursed army back when I was still playing 40k, during 5th or 6th edition.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-G4VkP_kXrcY/UBlrbBRdJhI/AAAAAAAAL4E/-z9xetZ59Xo/s1600/DSC09058.JPG)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 12, 2022, 07:06:27 PM
See, not only is that brilliant (it really is - there's a significant amount of effort, skill, and creativity put in that), it always annoys exactly the right sort of people.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on December 12, 2022, 07:22:47 PM
Yup, I think that's hilarious. The commitment of hours in it just makes it funnier when you imagine the oh so serious tournament gaming rules lawyer faced with it. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 12, 2022, 07:26:43 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on December 12, 2022, 07:06:27 PM
See, not only is that brilliant (it really is - there's a significant amount of effort, skill, and creativity put in that), it always annoys exactly the right sort of people.  lol
exactly  :D

I have to say as well, with the butterflies among the scarabs? You could do a creepy as heck butterfly themed necron army.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on December 13, 2022, 01:15:14 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on December 12, 2022, 07:06:27 PM
See, not only is that brilliant [...], it always annoys exactly the right sort of people.  lol

Hmm, I dunno, does it? If you did this with historical games, would everyone still think the same, or would they feel it's tedious and get quickly bored of indulging you?  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 13, 2022, 02:07:15 AM
Which indulgence is there to make with 40k? Either it's someone from your friendly play group and you play with then of you want to or not, or its a tournament army in which case it's miles ahead of the bare bones painted or bate 3d printed figures that are the mark of those events in so many places. This is striking and refreshing. If indulging means playing against it I'd indulge it happily.
As for a historical wargame, i believe we have multiple instances of quite vivid pink uniforms in multiple eras?
But this isn't historical, it's 50k with its ork rockers with squig wig for glamrock hair, and rattling snipers who steal carrots. 40k with a necron overlord who in official lore has a collection of imperial guard regiments and sends thank you letters when commanders send armies his way that help fill gaps in his collection. I'm not sure how an army that already has an insect theme including butterflies is then something that goes too far?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 13, 2022, 06:44:38 AM
Eh, I mean I would pass on playing that - but I'm sure there are plenty of people who wouldn't.

I'm not personally a fan of "for the lolz" kind of gaming, even in a science fiction or fantasy setting.  One of the main draws to tabletop wargaming is the aesthetic, and that would ruin the game for me.  That's the beauty of wargaming though - I'm not required to play against a "silly" painted army, and vice versa.  There are opponents for everyone.

I have a local buddy who more or less can't take anything seriously, from 40K, to D&D to other tabletop games (Battletech, Battlegroup, etc.).  We still hang out, but we rarely game together because our tastes don't align, and that's fine.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 13, 2022, 07:53:51 AM
Or what if the Necron lord can only see in infra-red wavelengths - and uses lead based paint for rust resistance.

and doesn't even know it looks pink in different light? - bulk paint purchase from the Slaanesh paint company and so on as he liked the shade of grey?

Either way, 40K is meant as a parody, a joke about the worst of times, and eternal war and suffering and so on?

As others have said, different tastes, different imaginations etc etc.

To be fair, yeah looks at first a bit garish, yes, but after that and a crooked smile at the effort put in, yeah well done.

There was  a joke about my fathers trawlerman days ( one of many), when he and his partner where repainting their small trawler, in lead undercoat, and top coat of British navy grey (military surplus - Free - well sort of - it got trawled up so they used it - good paint so they weren't going to waste it)

They had to go out and earn some money of course, days in harbour don't earn, but had only finished the top coat on one side - money is what it is - got to have some

Trawlermen are no doubt still suspicious of what and where each of them are now just as much as in the 80's.. in case the other boat is catching something.. 

anyway they went out and did a days fishing and sailed back early - radio going nuts, as the other skippers tried to find out where they were and what they had found, and were they alright..

and who else was about as some new pink trawler had been seen going into harbour - but their battleship grey boat had been seen going out..

But yeah, they top coated the other side soon enough.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: ithoriel on December 13, 2022, 09:41:45 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on December 13, 2022, 01:15:14 AM
Hmm, I dunno, does it? If you did this with historical games, would everyone still think the same, or would they feel it's tedious and get quickly bored of indulging you?  :?

I remember a 25mm Gallic army that included Asterix, Obelix, Getafix, Vitalstatistix on his shield, et al. Amused me every time I saw it.

There was also the Arab army that had banners with inscriptions taken from confectionery wrappers, the Ghazi fanatics' one proclaimed,"Warning: may contain nuts."

Or how about the Chain of Command Volksturm unit based on the kids from Jojo Rabbit?

IMHO, war is a truly serious business, wargaming not so much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on December 13, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: ithoriel on December 13, 2022, 09:41:45 AM
There was also the Arab army that had banners with inscriptions taken from confectionery wrappers, the Ghazi fanatics' one proclaimed,"Warning: may contain nuts."

Reminds me of a Warhammer game back in the 80's - my brother and his mate were having a game one day round our house, Men of the West (my brother) vs Men of the East (his mate). The Eastern general was jauntily mounted on a flying carpet (no special rules) and he pointed at him proudly saying, "Guess what his name is!" After much shrugging he replied, "Mustafa Coffee," whilst looking at me pointedly. There were a few seconds of awkward silence before the penny dropped and I shuffled out to the kitchen to put the kettle on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 13, 2022, 11:18:52 AM
40K is full of parodies. Heck; as mentioned it IS one big parody, and in the right setting, a 'fun' army can be hilarious. I also remember a Hello Kitty space marine army and who can forget the Angry Marines? lol

Point is; there are those who take the whole setting way too serious, and even though I'm very, very well versed in 40K lore, I still recognise it for what it is.

Also, it's the out and out tournament players that are often way too serious about their game, most often only just meeting tournament requirements of at least 3 colours of paint on their miniatures (and often crappily so), because they're just there to field their killer list. But in my experience, those guys are also often not amused by out-of-context armies, no matter how well executed.

At best, the garish, out of character paintjobs will distract them enough to possibly allow for a more balanced game against their top-tier list and at worst, you've pissed them off with it. Either way you will probably lose the game, but will have achieved a moral victory :D

Mind; my experience of the 40K tournament scene roughly covers the decade between 2004 and 2014, or thereabouts, and it might have changed dramatically since then. But I realized that scene was just not for me, as I never actually felt it was enjoyable, so I stopped going.

Oh, and then there's the fact that even though I'd love to maybe one day do a 'funny' army, I'm such a slow painter, that the time and effort required would almost feel like a waste. As that spent time could have been dedicated to doing something a bit more useful. Also, since I don't do tournaments anymore, the point of doing up such an army would be rather moot anyway.

But I do still like me a good funny army every now and then.

(I do still have the components for a Saga Viking army, lead by pewter renditions of the TV-series Ragnar Lothbrook and his co-stars. Would that count? ;) ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: ithoriel on December 13, 2022, 11:22:28 AM
Quote from: Cubs on December 13, 2022, 09:46:56 AM
Reminds me of a Warhammer game back in the 80's - my brother and his mate were having a game one day round our house, Men of the West (my brother) vs Men of the East (his mate). The Eastern general was jauntily mounted on a flying carpet (no special rules) and he pointed at him proudly saying, "Guess what his name is!" After much shrugging he replied, "Mustafa Coffee," whilst looking at me pointedly. There were a few seconds of awkward silence before the penny dropped and I shuffled out to the kitchen to put the kettle on.

Bit more inventive than Mustapha Khamal :-)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on December 13, 2022, 02:10:19 PM
I struggle with 'silly' armies like the HelloKitty Marines, but ones with quiet nods like the aforementioned Astrix characters or Daeothar's planned Vikings work for me.
Ages ago, Gripping Beast previewed some greens for some 'Viking Reenactor models' (glasses, extra weight and all) that really appealed...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: ithoriel on December 13, 2022, 04:52:33 PM
Back when I played EVE Online I really wanted one of these, alas not actually available in game  :(

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Bt7xV4aHjY4/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: NotifyGrout on December 13, 2022, 11:00:21 PM
There's a time and place for both lore-accurate and just-for-kicks gaming.

Pick-up games at a local store, or tournaments are generally going to be the latter, barring specific instructions being provided well beforehand. As long as creativity isn't being used as an excuse for an unfair advantage, it should be welcomed there.

They're all toy soldiers in the end. People who take toy soldiers too seriously are likely not very fun to be around in general. If everyone's having fun, the rest is secondary. The problem, which sadly seems to hit the 40k community hard, is that some players can't have fun unless it's at someone else's expense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on December 14, 2022, 07:45:09 AM
Quote from: NotifyGrout on December 13, 2022, 11:00:21 PM
There's a time and place for both lore-accurate and just-for-kicks gaming.

Pick-up games at a local store, or tournaments are generally going to be the latter, barring specific instructions being provided well beforehand. As long as creativity isn't being used as an excuse for an unfair advantage, it should be welcomed there.

They're all toy soldiers in the end. People who take toy soldiers too seriously are likely not very fun to be around in general. If everyone's having fun, the rest is secondary. The problem, which sadly seems to hit the 40k community hard, is that some players can't have fun unless it's at someone else's expense.

here-here, could not agree more.

Glen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 14, 2022, 08:30:23 AM
I think its fair to say thats the competitive scene, or at least a part of it. There is plenty of friendly 40k games going down but lower stakes club events and games among friends etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: NotifyGrout on December 14, 2022, 06:32:22 PM
Quote from: YPU on December 14, 2022, 08:30:23 AM
I think its fair to say thats the competitive scene, or at least a part of it. There is plenty of friendly 40k games going down but lower stakes club events and games among friends etc.

The tournament/forever tournament prepping crowd definitely has a much higher instance of it, and to be fair, it seems like things are more laid back than they were a decade ago. The mid-2000s to the early 2010s saw a lot more focus on tournament gaming.

There's also a potential generational issue- many of us are old enough to remember when non-historical miniatures gaming still had stronger ties to RPGs and storytelling, like in Rogue Trader. I feel that the rise in popularity of RPGs seems to be having a knock-on effect in making narrative miniatures gaming more popular again.

There's room for both. I just think it's funny that people continue to try to do 40k tournaments when GW themselves have multiple games that are a lot more suited to competitive play.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 14, 2022, 07:43:37 PM
Without getting all political (don'cherknow), it's also worth remembering that 40k often suffers from the "Verhoeuvre" problem, where something intended as parody is subtle enough that certain folks (generally ones who're predisposed to this sort of thing anyway) end up missing that point entirely and instead end up embracing it all at face value.

In GW's own case there was a fair stretch - not all that long ago! - when they themselves fell to taking themselves rather over-seriously, so IMO it's good that the current owners stepped back a bit to remind everyone what the Empire of Man is really all about. While a few players who remember that era of GW might cling to it in a frankly embarrassing way, I think most players have been good about the reminder, if they needed reminding at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 15, 2022, 07:47:25 PM
Excellent point, Fram! And even when the parody was subtle, stuff like the old Ork rules ('Ere We Go, Freebooterz etc) added a hefty dose of silliness to the fluff that was hard to miss.

Can you imagine someone complaining "Your bright pink flower marines are ruining my vibe! Start taking it seriously! Now, let me fire my heavy weapon that involves tricking lots of cute little creatures called Snotlings into jumping into the warp, where they'll reappear inside your marines' armour defecating wildly"?
Title: Warhammer Movie
Post by: modelwarrior on December 16, 2022, 01:21:59 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63998585 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63998585)

So much opportunity to finally do this justice. If Amazon can do this correctly its an endless conveyor belt of money for Amazon and Games Workshop,but more importantly it can open the world of Warhammer to the mass public and allow them to see its more than little figures in a shop window. So many fantastic books covering the Warhammer world world make block buster movies on thier own.
Title: Re: Warhammer Movie
Post by: robh on December 16, 2022, 02:12:53 PM
Quote from: modelwarrior on December 16, 2022, 01:21:59 PM
........ If Amazon can do this correctly ........

"Henceforth my comfort and best Hope shall be,
By scorning Hope, nere to rely on thee."
Henry King 1643
 :(
Title: Re: Warhammer Movie
Post by: Wachaza on December 16, 2022, 02:37:51 PM
Cunning moves. Not the Witcher, not Superman but Warhammer. Cavill hasn't been out of the news for weeks. Excellent publicity.
Title: Re: Warhammer Movie
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 16, 2022, 03:50:31 PM
mores the point, its a no brainer.

They can throw millions at it, do whatever they like - lego spacemarines, with blue skin, all can be clones of Cavill, maybe buy some second hand plastic storm trooper stuff off disney, paint it blue too and all commanded by Tom Cruise, Primarch/emporer or whatever and all sorts of things, everything is possible.

No worries, no one can complain its not cannon, GW change that every year, and scale creep, well yeah.. that's cannon isn't it?

No need to ever look at any of the existing stories books etc, not really.

They can take all the footage they shoot for the first series/move and re-edit it every year and release it again for each new season/movie with a couple extra bits and new intro/packaging. So film once, release forever.

Betting the 3rd edition will likely be one of the most popular versions.

sounds great!

Wonder who they will give it to, to create script etc?

Title: Re: Warhammer Movie
Post by: modelwarrior on December 16, 2022, 04:49:56 PM
No idea about the script,but I would like to Eisenhorn as an introduction. It would be a nice way to unravel the Warhammer universe.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on December 16, 2022, 05:13:35 PM
A “there are no good guys as per official GW” Grimdark 40k Movie that brings the satirical “there is only war” British IP to mainstream international audiences…. What could possibly go wrong?

Much as I like Cavill I can not see this project ending up as anything other than like the World of Warcraft movie… or perhaps the Mutant Chronicles movie.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on December 16, 2022, 05:27:32 PM
nothing can go wrong, 'tis nothing but a positive, just think of all the tie-in plastic/fail/resin/casts etc they will be able to shift!

Everything will become 1 per box collectible edition multipart kits for the movie/TV market.

via amazon.

get your warhammer delivered by prime drone same day etc etc.

They can do a shop merge - Warhammazon collection points!

They can change the warehouse robots into servitors.

stick skulls and things on them.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on December 16, 2022, 06:20:32 PM
To quote Han Solo/Indiana Jones "I've got a bad feeling about this!" lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 16, 2022, 07:23:58 PM
The official GW announcement is here (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/12/16/warhammer-starring-henry-cavill/)
Title: Re: Warhammer Movie
Post by: FramFramson on December 16, 2022, 07:26:26 PM
Quote from: robh on December 16, 2022, 02:12:53 PM
"Henceforth my comfort and best Hope shall be,
By scorning Hope, nere to rely on thee."
Henry King 1643
 :(

 lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on December 20, 2022, 12:37:11 PM
This is from 11 months ago but worth watching for this discussion…. Cavill talking about 40k.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Lrr2uS6t8
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 24, 2022, 11:04:53 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FknjFQNXwAACJrR?format=png&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 25, 2022, 08:53:45 AM
I'm nearly at the end of my Bob Ross picture a day calender, and I don't remember seeing that one  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Argonor on December 25, 2022, 11:17:51 PM
F*ck, I'm 23 pages behind ...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on December 26, 2022, 08:06:43 PM
Quote from: Argonor on December 25, 2022, 11:17:51 PM
F*ck, I'm 23 pages behind ...  lol
So you're saying you didn't open your LAF GW Advent Calendar?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 27, 2022, 02:46:26 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on December 26, 2022, 08:06:43 PM
So you're saying you didn't open your LAF GW Advent Calendar?
lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 23, 2023, 02:22:38 PM
Opinion seems divided about the fact that the new imperial guard tank doesn't have a floor - Rather the bottom is open to the elements. Seems the bottoms of the tracks are scalloped as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 23, 2023, 03:49:36 PM
That's a weird choice...  ???

To me, this appears to compromise the structural integrity of the model, but coupled with the hollow tracks, this is most likely a cost saving move.

I can't escape the image of a Flinstones tank now lol

In-universe, it would also explain their vulnerability to mines...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 23, 2023, 04:15:41 PM

tis obviously to make it easier for dedicated GW hobbyists to paint inside of the model as well.

You get to use twice as much paint on one kit.

Bargain.

They will probably release a special "tank internal colour scheme"  or "camo inside" paint sets soon

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on January 24, 2023, 03:26:46 AM
There's a piece missing, just like the real Rogal Dorn.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on January 24, 2023, 11:34:00 AM
I have to say, that bottom is a big piece of sprue real-estate that provides very little in return during general play. It does look silly though when you look at the tank upside down...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on January 24, 2023, 12:13:54 PM
Look, it's clearly the method they use to squeeze so many troops in. It's like a clown car, the doors open and then a bunch of dudes come up through tunnels, into the tank and out the door.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 24, 2023, 01:47:30 PM
Shame to hear the bottom of the tracks are scalloped (that seems unnecessary to me), but I can understand not having the bottom of the hull. As YPU says, it's a bit of pointless extravagance in most cases, but there's also the fact that placing the tank over low or uneven terrain is easier to accomplish without "wobbly model syndrome".

I'm more bothered by the minor fact that the tank would look far better with all the extra weapons stripped off it, leaving just the main cannon, co-ax, and hull-mount. The extra weapons all over it (sponsons and... fender-mounts?) look like a complete afterthought. Take those away, and the Rogal Dorn is actually a pretty nice-looking tank.


Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on January 24, 2023, 03:26:46 AM
There's a piece missing, just like the real Rogal Dorn.
lol  Very well done!  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 24, 2023, 02:45:37 PM
To be fare, you probably need to leave the bottom off to allow them to keep feeding in all the ammo needed for the guns, as there won't be enough room for it all.

Is there a chaos topless version coming out with more skulls on it later?

But damnit, now I keep imagining it with all the extra guns gone, and yes, it does look better that way.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 24, 2023, 02:58:14 PM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on January 24, 2023, 01:47:30 PM


I'm more bothered by the minor fact that the tank would look far better with all the extra weapons stripped off it, leaving just the main cannon, co-ax, and hull-mount. The extra weapons all over it (sponsons and... fender-mounts?) look like a complete afterthought. Take those away, and the Rogal Dorn is actually a pretty nice-looking tank.


That's the secret to most of what GW release these days - Strip off 90% of the surface clutter and there's usually a cool model underneath it all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 24, 2023, 03:34:20 PM
It does actual say in the blurb, most of the extra gun bits are optional...


As if the target demographic would choose the "fewer mounted guns option!"



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: modelwarrior on January 24, 2023, 04:55:41 PM
Just seen the pictures of the Rogal Dorn missing bottom and it just makes me want to break out the plasticard ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 24, 2023, 05:02:34 PM
TT combat have put up a preview of their new MDF tank hull panel conversion kit.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 24, 2023, 05:08:46 PM
Quote from: modelwarrior on January 24, 2023, 04:55:41 PM
Just seen the pictures of the Rogal Dorn missing bottom and it just makes me want to break out the plasticard ;)
First thing that came to my mind as well  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 24, 2023, 06:07:35 PM
While this doesn't impact me at all, I don't particularly care...if GW didn't charge an eye-watering amount for their models.  I understand when most companies take a short cut, etc...but GW's prices - you damn well better get the whole damn model, lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 24, 2023, 06:31:31 PM
It's funny how nobody got offended when GW did this with previous vehicle releases, or with the undersides of turrets, or... other things of this nature?  ???

Sure, yes, GW frequently make odd decisions that impact in non-positive manner on their customers, but this is what people get upset about of all things?

I mean, nobody really noticed it before somebody posted up a whiny YT video to get attention. What's next, are people going to start demanding they get the "whole model" from North Star because the Frostgrave Soldiers have backpacks on their sprue that are cut out at the back? Honestly, it's just weird.  :?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 24, 2023, 06:52:02 PM
Though some people flip their vehicles over on the game board if destroyed so I can see why they might not like it...of course you could just store some cotton wool smoke in there and pop it out for the visual effect when it gets destroyed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 24, 2023, 06:56:01 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 24, 2023, 06:52:02 PM
Though some people flip their vehicles over on the game board if destroyed so I can see why they might not like it...of course you could just store some cotton wool smoke in there and pop it out for the visual effect when it gets destroyed.

Yes, would almost be an improvement in that case.

Honestly all a bit silly. A bit of cost-cutting which genuinely hurts no one. I'm all for calling companies on the carpet when they misbehave but this particular whinge is a bit of old-fashioned GW-Hyperfan nonsense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 24, 2023, 09:33:12 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 24, 2023, 06:52:02 PM
Though some people flip their vehicles over on the game board if destroyed so I can see why they might not like it...of course you could just store some cotton wool smoke in there and pop it out for the visual effect when it gets destroyed.

I believe 9th ed 40k removed this entirely - Vehicles simply disappear from the board like videogame characters now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 24, 2023, 09:42:32 PM
Well that's a bit naff, mind its not a problem for me as I don't play 9th.

I seem to remember in 5th (last time I played much 40k) I made a crater for each of my vehicles just in case they blew up or I'd strip the weapon off it it was wrecked.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on January 27, 2023, 09:15:45 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/27/lvo-2023-a-new-slann-starmaster-spawns-alongside-fresh-seraphon/

Hoo boy do I want 'em...I'll miss the lizard scale shields, though. The promises of new releases later do make me hope that cold one riders will get a much-needed update, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Westfalia Chris on January 27, 2023, 01:41:25 PM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on January 27, 2023, 09:15:45 AM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/27/lvo-2023-a-new-slann-starmaster-spawns-alongside-fresh-seraphon/

Hoo boy do I want 'em...I'll miss the lizard scale shields, though. The promises of new releases later do make me hope that cold one riders will get a much-needed update, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

I was never a big fan of the Lizardmen faction, but hoo boy indeedy. Those look really nice, and those feathered dinosaur steeds are a wonderful variation on the all-too-familiar themes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on January 27, 2023, 02:42:48 PM
Very nice! I too will miss the scaled shields a bit, but then I like that the new bronze ones are reminiscent of the old 5th edition models. I hope the Slaan will be of a suitable size to use in older square-base armies.  8)

And more Space Marines, this time with super-jumbo-rocket-missile-whatnots. Because, apparently, there are still not enough Space Marine models in the world. Good show then.  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Terry Deathstrike on January 27, 2023, 04:40:53 PM
Loving the new plastic Arbites!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/27/lvo-2023-play-the-ultimate-game-of-cops-and-robbers-with-kill-team-soulshackle/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 09, 2023, 04:17:03 PM
Price increases on some stuff from 06 March link (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/02/09/pricing-update/)

Average claims to be 6%. Paints pots and starter sets not affected

I suspect they won't be the only folk doing this in the coming months  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 09, 2023, 10:23:18 PM
Quote from: Terry Deathstrike on January 27, 2023, 04:40:53 PM
Loving the new plastic Arbites!

I quite like them but their armour, even by 40K standards, bugs me. Gutshots aren't nice!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 11, 2023, 04:41:35 PM
More of the individual Kill Teams up for pre-order. I've been waiting for the Kroot, and they're in this batch  :D - link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=3281529261+3206404541+3435060111)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on February 11, 2023, 05:52:48 PM
I just realized the new kill team has dark eldar which are basically 1 of each already existing warrior sprue, plus a new one. Seems quite reasonable but I was under the impression all the older boxes have been fully new models?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 11, 2023, 07:32:36 PM
Quote from: YPU on February 11, 2023, 05:52:48 PM
I just realized the new kill team has dark eldar which are basically 1 of each already existing warrior sprue, plus a new one. Seems quite reasonable but I was under the impression all the older boxes have been fully new models?

As I understand it, each Kill Team box has one entirely new set of figures and one existing set with an upgrade sprue. I bought Octarius, which had a new set of Orks and the existing Death Korps of Krieg with some new bits.

I suppose it cuts down development time and costs having to only sculpt one new set. I had no need for the version with the Kroot (can't even remember which one it was), so was happy to wait for the group to be released on their own.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on February 16, 2023, 10:34:34 PM
There's a new partwork starting now:

https://www.warhammerstormbringer.com/

I'll be picking up issue one for £2.99 and issue 2 for £5.99 as I like the look of those orcs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on February 17, 2023, 06:35:50 AM
I grabbed issue 1 from Tesco yesterday and I'll likely get the next 2 issues for the orcs & stormcast. Just checked and thats almost half the price of buying the basic AoS starter.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on February 17, 2023, 10:56:10 AM
Quote from: Onebigriver on February 16, 2023, 10:34:34 PM
There's a new partwork starting now:

https://www.warhammerstormbringer.com/

I'll be picking up issue one for £2.99 and issue 2 for £5.99 as I like the look of those orcs.

Got it last night from tesco - And I'll certainly get the 10 orcs for £6 with issue 2.

this first issue also comes with a nice card game mat perfect for skirmish sized games and a very nicely printed poster - Not that I'll ever actually put it up, but it is a good one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: john Hollyoak on February 19, 2023, 05:24:05 PM
I couldn't find Stormbringer magazine at our TEsco. Is it being sold anywhere else?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on February 19, 2023, 06:56:50 PM
Quote from: john Hollyoak on February 19, 2023, 05:24:05 PM
I couldn't find Stormbringer magazine at our TEsco. Is it being sold anywhere else?

I picked it up yesterday at WH Smith, which had loads of copies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on February 19, 2023, 07:19:53 PM
Got my copy at Smiths yesterday. Really taken with the orc figure, not so much the knight-arcanum. I can see myself dipping in to the orcy stuff past issue 2, maybe start off with a warband for SBH then expand it to something larger for Dragon Rampant.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 19, 2023, 09:06:44 PM
I failed in both Tesco and ASDA on Saturday, so it doesn't look promising.

I seem to remember picking up the last ones when I was in a GW shop, but I won't be near one for a while.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on February 19, 2023, 11:13:19 PM
Quote from: zemjw on February 19, 2023, 09:06:44 PM
I failed in both Tesco and ASDA on Saturday, so it doesn't look promising.

I seem to remember picking up the last ones when I was in a GW shop, but I won't be near one for a while.

You've still got another week before it goes weekly. Good luck!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on February 20, 2023, 02:17:36 PM
Got my copy in the local WHSmiths. Strangely, it was only available behind the counter and I fely very seedy asking for a magazine off the top shelf!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 21, 2023, 10:52:39 AM
So, Attilan Rough Riders are back at long last I see:

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/lxqxoUQMEd0WRSFE.jpg)

I'm... Not that taken with them, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on? Maybe is the chunkiness of the models, or apparent stiffness in their poses?

Either way, it's nice to have them back in a fairly traditional form at least. :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on February 21, 2023, 02:30:48 PM
Yeah I'm not a big fan either...I think it's the combo of a knightly chunkiness and a swift Mongal horseman, the two images just don't line up...it's the horse for me I reckon, strip them back a bit and they'd look better.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 21, 2023, 03:49:13 PM
It sounds silly to say it, because it is such a small detail, but to me they look a bit better with the alternative lance (the explosive charge one rather than the silly hand grenade cocktail stick).

Agree with you both on the other points. I'm thinking maybe it is the combination - several little design choices that I wouldn't notice the effect of individually, but together you just think "Hmmm, that mini is a bit off".

The Ad Mech cavalry was better I think, and I imagine there'll be lots of kitbashes between the two.



Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 21, 2023, 06:05:23 PM
The new Attilans are just an absolute mess.  Normally GW is pretty solid on models, but these are crap.  Their hats becoming part of their helmet looks stupid, and for some reason their horses have armour and barding like they're jousting?  Overall they're just an absolute mess.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on February 21, 2023, 09:13:53 PM
The stiffness of the poses is certainly something which stands out. And yes, the barding is a bit odd.

Plus, where are the horse archers??? Space Mongols but they only have lances and swords?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 21, 2023, 10:00:37 PM
The horses would have made sense (almost) if these were Death Korps. of Krieg or something similar...but all the Mongolian vibe is lost, with the "helmet" hat being almost insultingly bad.

I think the designer was issued a brief and just...missed it.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 21, 2023, 10:17:07 PM
Good idea, poor execution.

I'm not a big 40K aficionado, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Attilans meant to be light armoured, light cavalry used for guerilla strikes and raiding missions? These dudes have none of the Mongol flavour of the Attilans. What a missed opportunity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on February 21, 2023, 10:39:10 PM
Quote from: Cubs on February 21, 2023, 10:17:07 PM
Good idea, poor execution.

I'm not a big 40K aficionado, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Attilans meant to be light armoured, light cavalry used for guerilla strikes and raiding missions? These dudes have none of the Mongol flavour of the Attilans. What a missed opportunity.

GW seem to be shying away from the more direct "X culture IN SPAAAAACE!" design process of old. Unfortunately that seems to make redesigning certain legacy units a bit tricky, as has happened here with the rough riders who are simultaneously obviously meant to be space Mongols, but also aren't quite space Mongol enough to look distinct.  They don't strike me as light skrimishers, but instead as ww1 heavy cavalry with funny hats. (which is cool but if that's the case they should have leant into it more)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on February 22, 2023, 12:21:38 AM
I think I have 50 or 60 of the old skool ones laying around. Back in 3rd there was a provision in the rule book to have a whole force of them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on February 22, 2023, 01:07:43 AM
Quote from: Codsticker on February 22, 2023, 12:21:38 AM
I think I have 50 or 60 of the old skool ones laying around. Back in 3rd there was a provision in the rule book to have a whole force of them.
There sort of was in 2nd too... And Stormtrooper platoons too. A bit hand-wavey, but really not too hard to do.

In addition to the old RT figures and the later Attilans (and their converted spin-off Tallarn friends), I always liked that in some editions you could give your RR squads up to 2 special weapons - Flamers and Meltaguns were obvious candidates, but I always thought Plasma or GL could be interesting too. I felt that gave them enough poke to actually make a full force of them vaguely viable.

Anyway, I'd always hoped to see them re-released, perhaps in a few different types of regiment and/or with some different mount options, but these new ones just look off unfortunately. Shame, as it's a completely missed opportunity now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: NotifyGrout on February 23, 2023, 07:07:03 AM
The unit feels like it was designed by committee. It's like they couldn't decide whether to just update the old-school Mongolian feel of the originals, or redesign them into something new, so they tried to do both.

I wonder if alternate heads would make them look better. If they were going knightly orders or WW1 cavalry (in spaaace!) then why not go all out and put them on mecha-steeds?

I don't know if my view of GW is just that biased now*, or if I'm not the only one that feels that much of their products just feel like...products. The frustrating part is that I know they can make stuff that I like, because on occasion I see something that I like and either buy it or at least fight the temptation, but then the rest of the associated models in the range leave me kinda cold.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 23, 2023, 07:17:43 AM
I really liked the old design much more than these new ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 24, 2023, 06:50:06 PM
I remember converting a few of the old style Attilans to look like Cossacks, for a Valhallan force that never actually got off the ground.

Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on February 21, 2023, 10:39:10 PM
They don't strike me as light skrimishers, but instead as ww1 heavy cavalry with funny hats. (which is cool but if that's the case they should have leant into it more)

It was my first thought as well, that they were something like WW1 cavalry, and my mind immediately went to the Australian Light Horse for some reason, despite them looking nothing like it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 02, 2023, 05:40:19 PM
FW are going to be releasing an upgrade set for Despoiler squads wielding chainswords and bolt pistols (plus a power axe & a 2 handed chainsword).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/02/heresy-thursday-spice-up-your-legions-with-chainsaw-wielding-despoiler-squads/

Seems really naff that they won't be in plastic, I was hoping for more dynamic poses and jump packs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 02, 2023, 06:02:22 PM
Yeah, a missed opportunity for sure - assault arms could have been combined with jump packs and/or boarding arm/shield sets. I wonder if maybe the HH relaunch isn't quite as hot as they'd hoped...? Seems to have done well from what I can see, but who knows.

I note there's more infantry still to come. I wonder if these will be mk5, or if they'll be a troop type that can use assault arms (thereby getting an eventual plastic release afterall, sorta like they did with the Necromunda weapon sets)?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 02, 2023, 10:21:01 PM
Now that is...absolutely bizarre.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cypher226 on March 03, 2023, 02:24:39 PM
saw a pic of the rough riders with Cadian heads the other day which looked much better - the patrol cap + gas mask combo was particularly choice - they looked much more coherent.

I suspect the resin arms are a stop gap until the next round of plastic infantry.  Ridiculous pricing though, seeing as you'd need two packs for a minimum 10 man squad.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on March 03, 2023, 04:15:33 PM
Quote from: NotifyGrout on February 23, 2023, 07:07:03 AM
... on occasion I see something that I like and either buy it or at least fight the temptation, but then the rest of the associated models in the range leave me kinda cold.
Ditto. :-I
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on March 04, 2023, 12:02:20 PM
Picked up the last Issue 2 of the Stormbringer magazine in my local Asda this morning. Interestingly, they still had approximately 10 copies of Issue 1 available.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on March 04, 2023, 01:10:21 PM
Quote from: nozza_uk on March 04, 2023, 12:02:20 PM
Picked up the last Issue 2 of the Stormbringer magazine in my local Asda this morning. Interestingly, they still had approximately 10 copies of Issue 1 available.

Yep, think issue 2 has been understandably flying off the shelves. I grabbed the last copy in Smiths and ordered another copy from Forbidden Planet so I can put 3 units of "Gutrippas" together for Dragon Rampant.

Obviously a few cynical buggers have just bought them to sell at profit on Ebay, although I think the joker trying to sell just the magazine for £2 plus postage is on a hiding to nothing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: nozza_uk on March 11, 2023, 06:44:38 PM
Popped into the local WHSmiths and they had loads of Issue 3 of the Stormbringer magazine. Seems this issue is not as popular.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 11, 2023, 08:25:32 PM
Same for me, couldn't find a copy of issue 2 anywhere, a week later loads of issue 3 and still half a dozen copies of issue 1. Oh well, at least that means fewer minis to paint :D

It does make me think it's a shame for any kid looking to pick up a copy and missing out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 11, 2023, 08:30:39 PM
I haven't seen any of them at all in my local Tesco or ASDA. Loads of Thomas the Tank Engine magazines, so many, in fact, that I'm starting to wonder if there are any conversion possibilities for them  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 11, 2023, 08:34:59 PM
:D Maybe that should be some sort of collaboration...everyone picks up a cheap Thomas toy and converts it up :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luigi on March 13, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
New GW preview for Warhammer: The old world (http://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/13/old-world-development-diary-revealing-the-weapons-of-war/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 13, 2023, 03:36:49 PM
Elaborate, but not too over the top. Maybe it won't be too bad after all?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on March 13, 2023, 06:27:22 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on March 13, 2023, 03:36:49 PM
Elaborate, but not too over the top. Maybe it won't be too bad after all?
I agree, certainly reminiscent of Oldhammer. I am curious about basing.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 13, 2023, 06:30:55 PM
I believe they have said it will be the same sizes as before and square. Of course they may change that.

Aside from the map, all we've seen so far is a bit of art and some renders...I wonder if they are keeping things close to their chest to do a really big reveal or if the project is just slowly chugging along...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Aethelwulf on March 14, 2023, 06:12:24 AM
Can anyone tell me why the GW lotr miniatures come pre-assembled, and in only a few poses?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 14, 2023, 06:32:46 AM
I think that was always the case. Maybe it was initially done to keep the cost down...or maybe because they are slightly smaller in scale?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Aethelwulf on March 14, 2023, 08:53:04 AM
That could be it, they are definitely smaller, which is another reason I dislike them as they don't fit with other manufacturers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 14, 2023, 09:22:02 AM
I never understood that decision.

My memory of it is that it was a licensing thing, although it was probably more to try to make people buy more figures, rather than use their existing ones to dabble in Middle Earth

The weird thing is there wasn't that much of an overlap between the ranges, especially with humans (Empire had gone full high fantasy renaissance by that time), so it never made any sense to me. If you want to have skaven in Middle Earth, why not? The humans would have been much more useful in The Old World.

The only upshot for me was that it saved me a lot of money. I think I only ever bought a box of Rangers and the Warriors of the Dead, as there was no point buying stuff too small to use.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 14, 2023, 09:59:23 AM
To be honest; this was exactly the reason I never bought any LotR miniatures; they looked so weeny next to 'proper' 28mm heroic miniatures.

As far as I understand it, the scale difference was done at the behest of the IP holders; they wanted to keep the LotR game completely separate from the other GW lines, probably to protect the nature of the setting and prevent it from being diluted/infiltrated by other universes and aesthetics. Also; the likeness of the actors from the movies were probably protected too, and representing them with different miniatures might also be unwanted.

Also; the WHFB was a world of tropes and often silliness, not at all compatible with the more realistic and serious world of LotR.

But GW had a stake in this too: if anyone had, for example, a grey wizard in their WHFB Empire army, he would be a perfect Gandalf stand-in. I mean; that whole concept and sculpt WAS inspired by Gandalf in the first place. Adn then think Wood Elf Waywatchers, Orcs and Goblins, Trolls, Dragons, Wraiths, Hobbits; the list goes on and on. All miniatures GW would have sold already for WHFB, and might not sell again should the lines have been compatible.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Aethelwulf on March 14, 2023, 10:12:25 AM
Its weird to think that when you get an Aragorn miniature, you're actually getting a miniature of Viggo Mortensen lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on March 14, 2023, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on March 14, 2023, 09:59:23 AM
To be honest; this was exactly the reason I never bought any LotR miniatures; they looked so weeny next to 'proper' 28mm heroic miniatures.


Form me it is the exact opposite.  :)
I really like them because they are true scale 28 mm figures, with properly sized weapons and limbs.
Also as I'm aware they go well with 28 mm historical figures. A friend of mine uses plastic vikings as Dunlendings, and they don't seem to stand out at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 14, 2023, 01:03:43 PM
Oh, that's absolutely true.

However; I had absolutely 0 historical miniatures in my collection at the time (and I still do only a very few), so there was that...  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Aethelwulf on March 14, 2023, 03:06:04 PM
They fit fairly well with historical miniatures, but I find they don't really look right together.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on March 14, 2023, 05:01:55 PM
I found these two videos useful to learn more about the history of Lord of the Rings and Games Workshop, including why the sculpts are the size they are.

First an interview with Rick Priestly…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X71eQops6mw

Second an interview with the Perry Brothers…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjIA1vF64dc
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on March 16, 2023, 08:37:45 PM
Picked up issue 4 of Stormbringer today for the 4 paints.

Issue 6 has 10 "Hobgrot Slittaz" for £8.99 so that will be the next issue I pick up.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 16, 2023, 09:03:30 PM
Quote from: McMordain on March 14, 2023, 12:09:28 PM


Form me it is the exact opposite.  :)
I really like them because they are true scale 28 mm figures, with properly sized weapons and limbs.

Me too! I've bought a number of the LoTR range to convert to fit with old GW minis like the Confrontation gangers. Most oldhammer stuff looks too small next to modern GW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 17, 2023, 05:47:50 AM
This Old World release seems to be the longest release ever. Soon Age of Sigmar will become the old world the way things are going with the length of this release.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 17, 2023, 11:44:21 PM
If we're still a couple of years off seeing any minis, it is a standardly timed release isn't it? I can't recall exactly, but weren't the Ash Waste Nomad concept sketches previewed at a GW event several years before the minis arrived? I can't remember the exact timing, it was so long ago (which, I hope, supports my point). And some work had already started on that area of Necromunda before then as far as I know.

The difference with the Old World is that they're regularly drip feeding little snippets. Other releases have been more like the Ash Wastes I think -  if you get any well-in-advance inkling of the project's existence at all, you then get very long periods of radio silence from GW until close to the release buildup.



 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Sir_Theo on March 18, 2023, 12:14:05 AM
You'd think bringing the old world out in 2023, forty years since the original Warhammer Fantasy battle release, would make sense- but it looks more likely that the big summer release will be 40k 10th edition (sticking with their 3 year rotation) and I can't see them doing two big releases in the same year.

I don't really care about TOW as a game but I'm interested to see what gets rereleased, and any new miniatures- and I know I won't be able to resist a big expensive hardback book full of Old World maps and warhammer lore.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on March 18, 2023, 11:12:54 PM
I've had to give them somw wiggle room as they're not designed for r and f, but I've made some movement trays for my Stormbringer Orruks for Dragon Rampant:

(https://i.imgur.com/FWvG4iZ.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Terry Deathstrike on March 19, 2023, 05:08:00 PM
Has anyone seen Issue #80 of Imperium (Part 2 of 2 Guilliman)?

Last week when I picked up Issue #79 there were plenty spare but this week I couldn't find a single issue in my local or formerly local WHSmith.

Odd, as I'd expect GW supply Hachette with a complete kit and they just split it between two issue.

No luck online either  :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on March 19, 2023, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: Terry Deathstrike on March 19, 2023, 05:08:00 PM
Has anyone seen Issue #80 of Imperium (Part 2 of 2 Guilliman)?

Last week when I picked up Issue #79 there were plenty spare but this week I couldn't find a single issue in my local or formerly local WHSmith.

Odd, as I'd expect GW supply Hachette with a complete kit and they just split it between two issue.

No luck online either  :(

My local tesco had loads of it but i didn't see part 1 in there the other week.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 20, 2023, 12:18:17 AM
Quote from: beefcake on March 17, 2023, 05:47:50 AM
This Old World release seems to be the longest release ever. Soon Age of Sigmar will become the old world the way things are going with the length of this release.

They said it would be years when they first mentioned that this was a long term project. I believe the pandemic hit between then and now so it's anyone's guess. May have been planned for this year originally - who knows?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: mcfonz on March 20, 2023, 12:22:17 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on March 17, 2023, 11:44:21 PM
If we're still a couple of years off seeing any minis, it is a standardly timed release isn't it? I can't recall exactly, but weren't the Ash Waste Nomad concept sketches previewed at a GW event several years before the minis arrived? I can't remember the exact timing, it was so long ago (which, I hope, supports my point). And some work had already started on that area of Necromunda before then as far as I know.

The difference with the Old World is that they're regularly drip feeding little snippets. Other releases have been more like the Ash Wastes I think -  if you get any well-in-advance inkling of the project's existence at all, you then get very long periods of radio silence from GW until close to the release buildup.

Yup, it takes 2-3 years lead time I believe, from concept to production for a lot of GW products. Ash Wastes Nomads concepts were first shared at an event, like you say, I think in 2018 possibly 2019. Though there have also been a twitch stream or two from that era as well talking about plans of where they wanted to take Necromunda with things like Spyrer's etc.

Back then, specialist games were much more haphazard in that they had no dedicated sculptors so were relying upon citadel sculptors having a bit of spare time to sculpt things for them. I think there were also only two people in the specialist games team back in 2017-18. Now they have at least a dozen including their own dedicated sculptors.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cait Sidhe on March 20, 2023, 01:11:57 AM
I imagine if you want to see what the Old World stuff is going to look like just take a look at Total War: Warhammer 3. GW have been working with the devs on designing the factions including the newer ones like Cathay and Kislev which never really had full ranges. They're making a huge deal with the new upcoming DLC as well of Chaos Dwarves, so I expect to see them make a comeback in miniature form.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 20, 2023, 09:15:47 AM
Quote from: mcfonz on March 20, 2023, 12:22:17 AM
I think there were also only two people in the specialist games team back in 2017-18.

I think you're thinking of an earlier era. The new Necromunda came out in 2017, seems unlikely only two people were working on all that stuff  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Terry Deathstrike on March 20, 2023, 07:21:46 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on March 19, 2023, 08:34:13 PM
My local tesco had loads of it but i didn't see part 1 in there the other week.

Thanks, I'll try my larger local Tesco.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 21, 2023, 05:15:24 AM
Quote from: Cait Sidhe on March 20, 2023, 01:11:57 AM
I imagine if you want to see what the Old World stuff is going to look like just take a look at Total War: Warhammer 3. GW have been working with the devs on designing the factions including the newer ones like Cathay and Kislev which never really had full ranges. They're making a huge deal with the new upcoming DLC as well of Chaos Dwarves, so I expect to see them make a comeback in miniature form.
I'm looking forward to the chaos dwarves coming out. Better preorder the DLC (10% off)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luigi on March 23, 2023, 07:29:17 AM
New GW preview for Warhammer: The old world (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/the-full-might-and-majesty-of-the-seraphon-is-revealed/)


(http://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/new-ossiarch-bonereapers-and-soulblight-gravelords-heroes-rise-from-their-graves/[2[/u)

Lizardmen, beastmen, deadmen and...menmen
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 23, 2023, 07:45:24 AM
Love the new Kroxigor. Undecided on which head is better one is more dinosaur like, one more crocodile.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 23, 2023, 09:15:00 AM
For me, the crocodile ones are the best by far...  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luigi on March 23, 2023, 01:47:47 PM
For whatever reason my last post didn't link ALL the new previews.

So here they are

Lizardmen (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/the-full-might-and-majesty-of-the-seraphon-is-revealed/)

Undead (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/new-ossiarch-bonereapers-and-soulblight-gravelords-heroes-rise-from-their-graves/)

Normal (sic!) humans (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/get-your-first-look-at-the-human-soldiers-of-the-cities-of-sigmar/)

Uber humans and deamons (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/carve-a-path-to-the-heart-of-the-wyrdhollow-in-the-latest-warhammer-underworlds-box-set/)

Bestial humans (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/abandon-ship-kin-and-beastmen-flee-the-death-of-a-space-hulk-in-kill-team-gallowfall/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 23, 2023, 02:10:48 PM
I quite like the designs for the CoS humans and the 40k Beastmen. Probably won't get any, but the Beastmen might tempt me.

And in case anyone missed the announcement, new 10th edition 40k is coming: excitable release waffle here (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/a-mindblowing-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000-is-coming/).

On the one hand, 10th edition made me think "what, already?!", and then "9th was dull and tedious beyond belief. Maybe 10th will be a swing towards fun again?".  That last one is a rhetorical question, obviously...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 23, 2023, 09:03:27 PM
Quote
Combat Patrol: A Brand New Way to Play
As well as continuing support for Crusade and matched play, the new edition will introduce a brand new way to play the game: Combat Patrol.

This version is designed to be easy to collect and easy to play. Combat Patrol pitches small preset and balanced forces against each other, with the armies made of Combat Patrol boxes!

Not sure about Combat Patrol being designed only for the 'preset & balanced forces' in the Combat Patrol boxes. Hopefully GW'll tell us a bit more about that soon...I used to really love 40k in 40mins / Combat Patrol games but these seem like they'll be much bigger.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Major_Gilbear on March 23, 2023, 10:49:38 PM
@ Lost Egg:

Might not be; if they are each designed around a boxed force plus maybe another unit or character, they'd be around the size of a 2nd edition army.




Also, another Primarch is due to be released soon (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/23/lion-eljonson-primarch-of-the-dark-angels-returns-to-warhammer-40000/): Lion El'Jonson

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Lp4PyDuGZKHfKW1Z.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/XpocrmbmM9kezss9.jpg)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/fo8qJRNu8dhHLAKU.jpg)

Quite a nice model, and I like the helmeted head options in particular. I dread to think what it might cost though...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 23, 2023, 11:26:53 PM
"More than you can afford pal, Games Workshop."

While I don't do much in the way of any GW stuff (don't play any of their games, but occasionally pick up minis I like) I see more or less nothing of interest in this whole Adepticon, which is a pleasant surprise.

The Cities of Sigmar guys look okay, but again....far more Sigmar than Old World, so, nothing too exciting there.  They "look" a lot like the Chaos Legionaires from a little bit ago.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on March 24, 2023, 02:32:09 AM
Gawd.... I might buy the Gallowfall box set just for the sweaty beastmens. I mean, I already have some from the Blackstone Fortress game so what's a few more...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 24, 2023, 06:53:58 AM
Quote from: Major_Gilbear on March 23, 2023, 10:49:38 PM
@ Lost Egg:

Might not be; if they are each designed around a boxed force plus maybe another unit or character, they'd be around the size of a 2nd edition army.

They are a bit bigger then as I'm sure back in the day I had a combat patrol that was just 2 squads of 5 tac marines, a chaplain and a rhino...or maybe a razorback, while some of these combat patrols have flyers or dreadnoughts. I guess it'd be the same as 500pts of 2nd Ed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 24, 2023, 09:25:52 PM
I like the bionic bits on the beastmen, it is a nice touch that makes them squarely futuristic (rather than looking a bit too much like fantasy miniatures with weapon swaps).

A shame there are no autoguns though. Call me old fashioned (B-tpr Gaxt from Rogue Trader, some of the art in Slaves to Darkness) but beastmen really should have autoguns.  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 25, 2023, 08:13:22 AM
Yeah, a few autopistols but at least one with an autogun would have been nice.
I hope they do something like a space minotaur. That could be quite cool to go with them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on March 25, 2023, 10:24:17 AM
Jeeez the old metal imperial guard got a price hike! £19 for a single character figure?!?! Off their heads!!!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 25, 2023, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: majorsmith on March 25, 2023, 10:24:17 AM
Jeeez the old metal imperial guard got a price hike! £19 for a single character figure?!?! Off their heads!!!

plus please wait for up to six months to get it.

Even most of the smaller casters out there don't take quite that long...

Hopefully the rest of the hobby wont take to much note and try going up to that level in price and delivery times..

I guess that means ebay hikes, and gouges, with FOOP (Formally out of production) and BHCRM (bespoke hand cast Real Metal) etc being more commonly added to the list of acronyms/descriptions?

I will continue not needing any.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on March 25, 2023, 03:12:17 PM
I think warlord do their casting as well
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: sir_shvantselot on March 25, 2023, 03:19:45 PM
Quote from: majorsmith on March 25, 2023, 03:12:17 PM
I think warlord do their casting as well

Warlord do the metal casting for GW? Makes sense.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on March 25, 2023, 05:41:39 PM
Quote
Jeeez the old metal imperial guard got a price hike! £19 for a single character figure?!?! Off their heads!!!

Yep that's quite steep for what you get. The plasma trooper etc is that price too I notice. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on March 30, 2023, 03:31:44 AM
Quote from: westwaller on March 25, 2023, 05:41:39 PM
Yep that's quite steep for what you get. The plasma trooper etc is that price too I notice.

Just be glad you're not in Australia. That's a few too many dollarydoos for me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on March 30, 2023, 07:57:09 AM
Quote from: Vladimir Raukov on March 30, 2023, 03:31:44 AM
Just be glad you're not in Australia. That's a few too many dollarydoos for me.

New Zealand says "Hi!"

One Steel Legion guardsman costs us NZ$62.50. As of writing, this equates to just over £31 a miniature...

Eye watering...  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 30, 2023, 10:18:55 AM
It is starting to feel like 40K isn't a time period, it's what they intend to charge for a single miniature :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Aethelwulf on March 30, 2023, 11:08:57 AM
Quote from: zemjw on March 30, 2023, 10:18:55 AM
It is starting to feel like 40K isn't a time period, it's what they intend to charge for a single miniature :(
This is what I'm thinking as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on March 30, 2023, 01:12:58 PM
I'm glad I'm just dipping into GW with the Stormbringer partworks, the prices are just outrageous! Even if I still have a soft spot for the fluff, and you can prise Space Hulk from my cold dead fingers, I just can't see myself buying GW miniatures "full-time" ever again.

Anyway, Issue 6 of Stormbringer is out and it has 10 "Hobgrots" on it, so definitely value for money at £9

Issue 7 has 2 paints (catachan Flesh and Corax White), not up on GW paint prices but I'm guessing that this is one of the less value for money issues.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 30, 2023, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: Onebigriver on March 30, 2023, 01:12:58 PM
Issue 7 has 2 paints (catachan Flesh and Corax White), not up on GW paint prices but I'm guessing that this is one of the less value for money issues.

Those paints are £2.75 each, so yeah, not their most generous issue - not that I've seen any of them yet :-[
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on March 30, 2023, 02:26:56 PM
Quote from: zemjw on March 30, 2023, 02:18:08 PM
Those paints are £2.75 each, so yeah, not their most generous issue - not that I've seen any of them yet :-[

Have you tried Forbidden Planet? I ordered a copy of issue 2 from them and it was only £2 postage.

https://forbiddenplanet.com/380509-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-stormbringer-1/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 30, 2023, 03:24:11 PM
Quote from: Onebigriver on March 30, 2023, 02:26:56 PM
Have you tried Forbidden Planet? I ordered a copy of issue 2 from them and it was only £2 postage.

https://forbiddenplanet.com/380509-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-stormbringer-1/

I should be in a GW shop next week, but if I don't have any luck there I may give Forbidden Planet a try. I don't remember the last time I was in one of their shops, but I think it was pre-pandemic. Unfortunately I have no interest in 99% of the stuff they stock anymore, so I don't take the time to visit :(

To be honest, I don't need the figures and I'm not sure how compatible they are with my old school Orcs, but, hey, cheap figures are always worth adding to the pile lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on March 30, 2023, 03:41:12 PM
Quote from: zemjw on March 30, 2023, 03:24:11 PM
I should be in a GW shop next week, but if I don't have any luck there I may give Forbidden Planet a try. I don't remember the last time I was in one of their shops, but I think it was pre-pandemic. Unfortunately I have no interest in 99% of the stuff they stock anymore, so I don't take the time to visit :(

To be honest, I don't need the figures and I'm not sure how compatible they are with my old school Orcs, but, hey, cheap figures are always worth adding to the pile lol

They don't sell the partworks in GW stores.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on March 30, 2023, 04:48:03 PM
Quote from: zemjw on March 30, 2023, 03:24:11 PM
I should be in a GW shop next week, but if I don't have any luck there I may give Forbidden Planet a try. I don't remember the last time I was in one of their shops, but I think it was pre-pandemic. Unfortunately I have no interest in 99% of the stuff they stock anymore, so I don't take the time to visit :(

To be honest, I don't need the figures and I'm not sure how compatible they are with my old school Orcs, but, hey, cheap figures are always worth adding to the pile lol

I've no old school orcs but I'm going rummaging in the loft soon, and assuming you mean late 1980s/early '90s, I'll dig out some humans and take a pic with a "gutrippa" if you want.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ragsta on March 30, 2023, 04:57:16 PM
I was so excited when I saw Steel Legion were on Made To Order… £40 for 10!?? They’ve doubled in price!?

To be fair at least my pile of 200+ unpainted toys isn’t getting added to now.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 30, 2023, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: Onebigriver on March 30, 2023, 04:48:03 PM
I've no old school orcs but I'm going rummaging in the loft soon, and assuming you mean late 1980s/early '90s, I'll dig out some humans and take a pic with a "gutrippa" if you want.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm okay. As I said, I have no use for the figures, but cheap models are always nice to have, just in case lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on March 31, 2023, 06:53:24 PM
Had a look at the article about the new way of building forces on the Warhammer Community page.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/30/how-army-building-works-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

Apparently it's a lot simpler now. I've not played since the start of 6th but this doesn't sound easier at all...

Quote
For instance, you might be playing as the Gladius Task Force of the Adeptus Astartes. Your faction gives you the Oath of Moment army rule (more on this next week!) while your Detachment gives you access to six unique Stratagems – on top of the core group in the main rules – as well as four exclusive Enhancements for your Space Marine characters. It also bags you the Combat Doctrines ability, which allows you to pick from three powerful doctrines during your Command phase.

If you chose to fight with a different Detachment, you’d replace the Strategems, Enhancements and Combat Doctrines with those of the new Detachment.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 01, 2023, 12:19:59 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on March 31, 2023, 06:53:24 PM
Apparently it's a lot simpler now. I've not played since the start of 6th but this doesn't sound easier at all...

More dedicated players can correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that 40K was getting kinda close to Magic the Gathering, in that a competitive build should find and exploit powerful combinations of different special rules. It sounds like GW have tried to scale back and simplify that aspect to a significant extent. So I guess that makes army construction simpler too? 

I mean, it still sounds like there are several different layers (stratagems etc.) on top of just "Here are my units" but maybe each army has fewer, and more straightforward, combo possibilities? Not in a rush to find out, tbh.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luigi on April 01, 2023, 02:26:47 AM
New rumours from Natfka (http://Natfka http://natfka.blogspot.com/2023/03/rumors-for-old-world.html)via Reddit

Quote from: Reddit
more Stuff about Warhammer The Old World;

New Base for new produced and sold Sets;
-25mm - small Infantry
-30mm - larger Infantry
-60mm - monstrous Infantry,
-30mmx60mm - Cavalry

There will be no rules for base measures, you can use your old models with their old bases. You even could use rebased Models with Movement trays for round bases.

Launch Set will be (as said) Empire vs. Orcs

Bretonnia and Khemri were previews to show "those factions are not forgotten, we will bring complete new Stuff for them!"

Khemri will get the biggest range overhauls

Some older Models will return to production

First (6) Factions to get releases will be
Empire > Orcs &amp; Goblins > Chaos > Kislev > Bretonnia > Dwarfs
I don't know how much I believe, and those that I do believe (the base change) I'm not too fond of.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 01, 2023, 09:25:50 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on April 01, 2023, 12:19:59 AM
More dedicated players can correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that 40K was getting kinda close to Magic the Gathering, in that a competitive build should find and exploit powerful combinations of different special rules. It sounds like GW have tried to scale back and simplify that aspect to a significant extent. So I guess that makes army construction simpler too? 

I mean, it still sounds like there are several different layers (stratagems etc.) on top of just "Here are my units" but maybe each army has fewer, and more straightforward, combo possibilities? Not in a rush to find out, tbh.

I know what you mean, it all sounds too gamey for my tastes.

Thanks for the rumours Luigi. I think those bases sizes are only a wee bit bigger than before.

I thought Khemri was one of the more solid ranges from before so I'm surprised to see them down as being overhauled.

I doubt I'll get into WoW but I might get a few of the minis for my own rules.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on April 01, 2023, 02:55:53 PM
I jusr viewed Plasmo's excellent build of a Landraider kit. He usually does the more 'serious' model kits, but occasionally strays into scifi.

He has lighted up the model and because he decided on a Custodes paintscheme, he went with 24 karat gold leaf!  :o

Here's the kicker though; goldplating a Landraider turns out to actually be cheaper than buying GW gold spray paint! lol lol

Here's the vid:

https://youtu.be/rcNu1p29_B4 (https://youtu.be/rcNu1p29_B4)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 01, 2023, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on April 01, 2023, 02:55:53 PM
Here's the kicker though; goldplating a Landraider turns out to actually be cheaper than buying GW gold spray paint! lol lol

howling irl  lol lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 15, 2023, 07:52:58 PM
GW have shared a wee bit more on Warhammer Old World...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/14/old-world-development-diary-on-bases-and-the-barons-of-bretonnia/

Bretonnians are back, they look like the previous minis to me so nothing new. They also talk a bit about base sizes. Can't really say I'm surprised they are making the bases bigger...ranking up minis was a pain.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on April 15, 2023, 08:23:48 PM
I was happy to see them in lance formation, along with the mention of foot knights. The base thing kinda annoys me but is irritating rather than a burn the place to the ground problem. Just waiting to see what the rules turn out like, that'll be what decides if I jump in or just keep doing what I'm already doing and buy any figures I can use.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 16, 2023, 01:37:57 AM
I was happy to see this line at the bottom
Quote
All models in the Warhammer: The Old World range – including returning models – will be supplied with the correctly sized bases
So perhaps not entirely new minis across the board. Hopefully they will keep a bunch of the old ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 16, 2023, 09:05:44 AM
I can definitely see the Orc boar riders coming back as they weren't that old. Some kits definitely need re-doing as they were quite clunky.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on April 17, 2023, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: beefcake on April 16, 2023, 01:37:57 AM
I was happy to see this line at the bottom So perhaps not entirely new minis across the board. Hopefully they will keep a bunch of the old ones.

Provided the rules are ok, this means rebasing pretty much my entire Nightgoblin army, as they're on 20mm bases. Or more to the point; their movement trays. Because I will NOT be rebasing a couple of hundred of the little blighters lol

On the other hand; my Warriors of Chaos army will be completely OK, as they're based on 25mm already.

It looks as if they'll be dusting off some of the old moulds for most of the armies; they'll just be provided with different bases. And most of them are pretty much OK as they are I reckon, bar some exceptions of course.

I never was a fan of Lizardmen, but with those new Croxigor getting more of a crocodile look, I find I'm finally warming to the idea (like a lizard in the sun I suppose ;) ).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 18, 2023, 01:17:57 AM
I inferred from the article that 25mm based chaos warriors orcs etc will be getting bigger bases too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on April 18, 2023, 09:27:41 AM
Oh bother... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 18, 2023, 10:30:07 AM
Here were the words, you may be in luck
Quote
So now, all 20mm bases have been replaced with 25mm bases. Most (but not all) 25mm and 25×50 bases have been replaced with new-sized bases.
Wasn't really an inference now I read it again, lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 19, 2023, 04:12:59 PM
Given the scale-creep of GW models, it would be nearly impossible for any of them to fit on a 20mm base, let alone a 25mm square base.  I'd imagine you'll be able to field old armies against eachother without issue - but mixing old and new is going to be 'an issue' depending on the players.

I would not be surprised at all to see something like 30-32mm squares for stuff like Chaos Warriors (which will be a head taller than older minis, etc.).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on April 20, 2023, 08:21:06 PM
Interesting they're using those old plastic Brettonian infantry in the pics. I assume that means they might be rereleased? Those were pretty small at the time - smaller than the Empire flagellants for example - so I wonder how that is going to work  lol

On that note, apropos of nothing really... that flagellant kit is such a wonderful thing, isn't it?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 20, 2023, 08:48:42 PM
I think so as they specifically say that army was painted up for the new edition. I wouldn't be surprised if they got at least one new character though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on April 21, 2023, 12:58:40 AM
Yeah, they really seem to be showing off a lot of Bretonian stuff. I guess due to them destroyng the faction for AOS.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on April 21, 2023, 07:15:52 AM
Brets always were a staple of WHFB and a bit of a fan favourite, so it makes sense for them to shine front and center I guess...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on April 29, 2023, 02:59:50 AM
They mention in that article that if you're just rolling dice with your mates, you don't need to rebase anything. However, if you go competitive, you'll likely need to update things...or just stick the old bases on new ones.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on April 29, 2023, 10:10:56 PM
New warcry set announce ld and I really like the two warbands - stormcasts Vs ghouls (knights Vs zombie cannibals sounds fun on a bun) but I am really not enjoying the terrain of this latest warcry setting - it all looks like aquarium scenery to me.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 30, 2023, 08:30:31 PM
A couple of preview sculpts for Tomb King and Bretonnian - link (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/30/warhammer-the-old-world-a-noble-bretonnian-paladin-stands-up-to-a-tomb-king/)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/m1TWXnN6GI0vMn1Y.jpg)

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/BvR4cVp9V6PMBRy5.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on April 30, 2023, 08:41:00 PM
So ... it's just Age of Sigmar then. Same over-the-top aesthetics where the character has to dangle every damn thing they own off themselves to go out fighting. If they want to attract collectors from the Oldhammer market, they should really think about why Oldhammer (or Middlehammer or whatever) is still so popular.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 30, 2023, 08:44:38 PM
Well, that ain't no 20mm base, lol.  Those are very "modern" looking GW sculpts. lol  Busy...just super-duper-mega-busy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 30, 2023, 09:00:38 PM
On the bright side, neither of them is standing on/jumping off/making out with a rock, which seems like progress lol

But yeah, those are not 28mm figures :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on April 30, 2023, 09:01:28 PM
Quote from: Cubs on April 30, 2023, 08:41:00 PM
If they want to attract collectors from the Oldhammer market...

They don't.

 they want to attract people who got into Warhammer fantasy in the early 2000's and are now at just the right point in the 20 year nostalgia loop to be drained of disposable income.
They want people who got into fantasy as kids during 6th and 7th edition and have fond rose coloured memories of what to them seems to have been the golden age of warhammer, a golden age that just so happened to coincide with their discovery of it.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on April 30, 2023, 09:04:44 PM
Quote from: zemjw on April 30, 2023, 09:00:38 PM
On the bright side, neither of them is standing on/jumping off/making out with a rock, which seems like progress lol

But yeah, those are not 28mm figures :(

They got you covered with another AoS model though:

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/YBxSZsEFYONhXTWQ.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on April 30, 2023, 09:20:11 PM
Quote from: Elbows on April 30, 2023, 09:04:44 PM
They got you covered with another AoS model though:

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/YBxSZsEFYONhXTWQ.jpg)

Good god, that is a really pants Slayer :'(, I so miss the charm of the models of yesteryear.........
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Fitz on April 30, 2023, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Elbows on April 30, 2023, 09:04:44 PM
They got you covered with another AoS model though:

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/YBxSZsEFYONhXTWQ.jpg)

Yikes — that one would be right at home in a Brazilian Carnivale or a Croyden bondage bar.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on May 01, 2023, 05:52:36 AM
Quote from: Storm Wolf on April 30, 2023, 09:20:11 PM
Good god, that is a really pants Slayer :'(, I so miss the charm of the models of yesteryear.........

I don't see any pants there .... ;) :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Spinal Tap on May 01, 2023, 08:36:58 AM
One of my regular Frostgrave partners is into Warhammer Fantasy Battles and has quite a collection which still get use, and I was quite taken with the aesthetic of the Old World.

My interest has grown over the past few months, especially after seeing all Padrissimus's Tilean Campaign in the Fantasy forum, perusing Warhammer Army Project books and other source materials for the old game.

I was excited by the announcements about a return to the Old World but these new releases leave me cold.

If my other, admittedly limited, experience with GW stuff is anything to go by then pretty much everyone will jump on the new miniatures and all the older stuff will be abandoned in the blink of an eye.

Consequently I think I will be filing The Old World under .interesting but no'.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 01, 2023, 08:55:42 AM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on April 30, 2023, 09:01:28 PM
They don't.

 they want to attract people who got into Warhammer fantasy in the early 2000's and are now at just the right point in the 20 year nostalgia loop to be drained of disposable income.
They want people who got into fantasy as kids during 6th and 7th edition and have fond rose coloured memories of what to them seems to have been the golden age of warhammer, a golden age that just so happened to coincide with their discovery of it.

It's such a shame, because they obviously have talented sculptors and great production on their side - that Bretonnian looks like it was a lovely model about halfway through the process - but then it's like someone is constantly yelling "Needs more cowbell!" until the models end up looking like ... well, that. There were some very pretty models being made in the 90's/early 00's as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 01, 2023, 09:10:52 AM
It'll be interesting to see the sprue of the knight - could be you can just leave off quite a few gubbins if you don't want them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on May 01, 2023, 09:51:08 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on May 01, 2023, 09:10:52 AM
It'll be interesting to see the sprue of the knight - could be you can just leave off quite a few gubbins if you don't want them.

That doesn't seem to be how they do their sculpts these days though.
I'm thinking that's a single model on a small frame that goes together one way only. Maybe a choice of helmet, but other than that everything sculpted on.

Which makes it a "no" for me too. :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on May 01, 2023, 09:59:45 AM
Snipping off that stupid lantern would be fairly easy. The ork head/forced scenery on the other hand...

Another consideration is that it doesn't really seem to just be GW forcing this OTT aesthetic, but just them tapping into a large audience who seem to think "more detail = more better". The aesthetics of most modern fantasy media, from modern D&D to every last fantasy boardgame Kickstarter seems to be big, bombastic, World of Warcrafty type stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on May 01, 2023, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: TWD on May 01, 2023, 09:51:08 AM
That doesn't seem to be how they do their sculpts these days though.
I'm thinking that's a single model on a small frame that goes together one way only. Maybe a choice of helmet, but other than that everything sculpted on.

Which makes it a "no" for me too. :(


The article states that it's a resin model, so it'll be slightly more traditional in how it goes together.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on May 01, 2023, 03:28:06 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on May 01, 2023, 10:52:31 AM

The article states that it's a resin model, so it'll be slightly more traditional in how it goes together.
Ah, OK was responding to the previous posts which talked of sprues.
In that case it's even less likely to have options. And even more of a no from me

Just found another image which shows an alternate head (with pudding bowl cut).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tim Haslam on May 01, 2023, 03:36:07 PM
The attraction for me would be the big gaming events and tournaments using the new rules.
But I’m not a fan of the ‘new look’ fantasy, much prefer the look Oathmark has got. I suppose you’d call it traditional.

This of course puts me in a pickle,
Because to enter the big GW events I’d need an army of GW miniatures, as they don’t like any other manufacturers at their events (which is fair enough)

So I’m stuck,
I currently own a very nice army of Oathmark humans, which is easily a Bretonian look a like. So I can play the new rules.
But I won’t be able to enter the big events.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 01, 2023, 04:08:14 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on April 30, 2023, 09:01:28 PM
They don't.

 they want to attract people who got into Warhammer fantasy in the early 2000's and are now at just the right point in the 20 year nostalgia loop to be drained of disposable income.
They want people who got into fantasy as kids during 6th and 7th edition and have fond rose coloured memories of what to them seems to have been the golden age of warhammer, a golden age that just so happened to coincide with their discovery of it.

Laden with extraneous trinkets is also pretty on trend for the 20 year-old 6th edition Bretonnians they're resurrecting. Same with the Tomb Kings. 6th edition Warhammer design was not subtle.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 01, 2023, 04:28:18 PM
That old Bretonnian infantry kit had excellent trinkets from memory. A little dog, some odd bits of animal (snacks?), various weird symbolic items among the pouches and whatnot, and a really useful animal-tailed club.  Wish I had dozens more of those clubs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on May 01, 2023, 04:43:20 PM
Most of the plastic sprues from that era did have plenty of things to add. I remember making my first five or so Dwarfs and tricking them out with endless pouches, pipes, tankards and the like. Until my gaming pal pointed out I'd need to paint all those extra bits. The rest of the units were all considerably less encumbered!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on May 01, 2023, 05:16:21 PM
Quote from: TWD on May 01, 2023, 04:43:20 PM
Most of the plastic sprues from that era did have plenty of things to add. I remember making my first five or so Dwarfs and tricking them out with endless pouches, pipes, tankards and the like. Until my gaming pal pointed out I'd need to paint all those extra bits. The rest of the units were all considerably less encumbered!
I am helping paint a BT army for a friend right now. He went a bit ape shit and built everything in the army at once, compulsively buying, building and kit bashing every model in the army, utilising every piece on the sprue and even adding other pieces for other GW kits. It's going to be a long and tedious project  :'(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: sonicReducer on May 02, 2023, 06:22:21 PM
I started with 40K in 3rd and Fantasy in 6th and abandoned both many years ago. Priced out really, and got sick of chasing ever changing rules.

The modern GW CAD sculpts just don't have the same character in my opinion. They just look a bit ... lifeless. Also far too busy and cluttered. How anyone carrying so much cutlery gets any fighting done is a mystery.

I'm not particularly interested in the Old World - I think other games will do the same thing better. Oathmark or Kings of War for one. And I'm bracing myself for the hilarious resin prices. Bloodbowl characters are already ~£23 for one mini. Bonkers. No wonder the third party STL market is thriving.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 03, 2023, 05:56:37 AM
That Brettonian would be good in some sort of dungeon crawl, Warhammer quest, where all the extras on him would be a bit more explainable, lantern for underground etc. Lose the orc head entirely though, that's just odd when you are battling against a different army (maybe they'll have different heads to go under the sword, lol) But for a battelfield that is ridiculous. The drink bottle and lunch boxes and snack pack on the back really don't belong on a battlefield... unless he is a levelled up Friar Tuck.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/FCWhElZwN7dPpGHH.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on May 03, 2023, 08:42:52 AM
Ok, so he's a Questing Knight, which makes the load out more reasonable, but yeah, you'd drop all that crap the second you could.

As for the orc head, maybe it's a special attack? Before he closes with an opponent he whips it off his sword blade into their face, buying a moments distraction to stump closer under the weight of his camping gear...?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on May 03, 2023, 12:30:45 PM
The only thing I don't like is the smoke(?) effect on the lantern. I thought it was some sort of magical ghost face at first, and it took me ages to realize it was actually meant to be a lantern and not a skull reliquary or some other oddity.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on May 03, 2023, 05:07:58 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on May 03, 2023, 12:30:45 PM
The only thing I don't like is the smoke(?) effect on the lantern. I thought it was some sort of magical ghost face at first, and it took me ages to realize it was actually meant to be a lantern and not a skull reliquary or some other oddity.
I *THINK* they're just supposed to be melted candles, and someone decided to make them too big for the lantern because that would be easier to sculpt than something recessed? Looks naff, I agree.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on May 03, 2023, 05:30:45 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 03, 2023, 05:07:58 PM
I *THINK* they're just supposed to be melted candles, and someone decided to make them too big for the lantern because that would be easier to sculpt than something recessed? Looks naff, I agree.


On further inspection you  much be right - certainly candles, just a bit too chunky.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 03, 2023, 07:05:42 PM
Definitely melted candles.  My beef is that Bretonnians should have squires carrying all of that crap.  Also he's carrying a knife, a full size sword...and then an even bigger sword...with a shield casually stashed on his hip.

While early miniatures had a lot of options on a sprue, you never saw them "that" loaded.  I mean a lantern hanging from a sheath, etc?  It's just comically overladen.

Sculpting Bretonnians would have been the perfect opportunity to have a squire mechanic (which actually could have even had an in-game mechanic added --- being able to swap between weapons or gear load-outs mid-game, etc.). 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Andrew Rae on May 03, 2023, 07:25:58 PM
Quote from: Elbows on May 03, 2023, 07:05:42 PM
While early miniatures had a lot of options on a sprue, you never saw them "that" loaded.

6th ed characters: LINK (http://www.solegends.com/citcat2004us/c2004usp0426-00.htm) They look pretty loaded if you ask me. Just look at the 6th ed. 'remake' (by a different sculptor, I assume) of Brian Nelson's 5th ed. sorceress!

Figures loaded with junk was pretty much GW's whole thing in this period. They were mad for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 03, 2023, 09:42:21 PM
Quote from: FramFramson on May 03, 2023, 05:07:58 PM
I *THINK* they're just supposed to be melted candles, and someone decided to make them too big for the lantern because that would be easier to sculpt than something recessed? Looks naff, I agree.

Now look, everyone knows the best lantern is one with oversized candles (4, no less) that have somehow burned down enough to melt that much, despite being too big for the space, oozing out the open sides so the flames can get blown out immediately in any sort of wind. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on May 04, 2023, 09:57:14 AM
[Now look, everyone knows the best lantern is one with oversized candles (4, no less) that have somehow burned down enough to melt that much, despite being too big for the space, oozing out the open sides so the flames can get blown out immediately in any sort of wind. ]

 lol
I can't understand the reason that GW stuff is so blocky and angular nowadays? The antlers for example should be more rounded if they are supposed to represent real antlers. Arguably getting the basics 'wrong' really doesn't help with the idea that this miniature represents a real thing. So I guess it becomes a toy (which it is of course) but ultimately rather than being a miniature representation of a believable fictional character, the thing just screams 'I'm a toy!' 
Looks quite nurgle like too...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on May 04, 2023, 06:24:41 PM
Quote from: Cubs on May 03, 2023, 09:42:21 PM
candles (4, no less)

Handles for forks?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on May 04, 2023, 08:00:49 PM
Quote from: TWD on May 04, 2023, 06:24:41 PM
Handles for forks?

 lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 08, 2023, 10:59:02 AM
Quote from: westwaller on May 04, 2023, 09:57:14 AM
I can't understand the reason that GW stuff is so blocky and angular nowadays? The antlers for example should be more rounded if they are supposed to represent real antlers. Arguably getting the basics 'wrong' really doesn't help with the idea that this miniature represents a real thing.

If I recall correctly, this started almost immediately when GW's design studio began sculpting digitaly. I remember having exactly the same thoughts when I fist saw the (then) new Night Goblins. But where it was really apparent was the Imperial Wizard kit. The flowing robes and scrolls all had this slightly angular look to them that made them look distinctly unrealistic. Not bad, but unrealistic.

I suppose it's a look all of its own now. It might have begun as a limitation of the medium or skills of the sculptor back then, but GW has stuck to it ever since.

And it's not as if this affects other studios too. Look at Malifaux or Infinity. They have made the same jump in technology, but show none of those angular features.

So it can only be a deliberate style choice of GW's...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on May 08, 2023, 12:54:03 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on May 08, 2023, 10:59:02 AM
If I recall correctly, this started almost immediately when GW's design studio began sculpting digitaly. I remember having exactly the same thoughts when I fist saw the (then) new Night Goblins. But where it was really apparent was the Imperial Wizard kit. The flowing robes and scrolls all had this slightly angular look to them that made them look distinctly unrealistic. Not bad, but unrealistic.

I suppose it's a look all of its own now. It might have begun as a limitation of the medium or skills of the sculptor back then, but GW has stuck to it ever since.

And it's not as if this affects other studios too. Look at Malifaux or Infinity. They have made the same jump in technology, but show none of those angular features.

So it can only be a deliberate style choice of GW's...

It's also just an unavoidable limit of plastic injection moulding - you need at least 3degrees of draft to ensure proper release and avoid a vacuum when ejecting the sprue - there are programs like fusion360 that will automatically break a sculpt apart and alter it for injection moulding. nowadays I'm sure GW have their own system for doing this with digital sculpts, but in the early days it would have been a case of reaching a compromise with the software at the expense of detail/weird moulding decisions. It's no different to the olden days when a plastic mini would have a noticeable "slope" where there was less detail, but now they can account for that in the actual sculpting rather than letting it be a consequence of the pantograph system.

Malifaux get around it by breaking their kits up into a large number of small parts, infinity use siocast which is a proprietary resin injected into a rubber mould.(basically a jewellers wax injection machine but bigger)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 08, 2023, 02:04:38 PM
I still don't think it's a limitation of the moulding process though, but more a conscious choice in design.

The Wizard kit I mentioned has flowing cloth moulded in unnatural angles, perpendicular to the mould halves, so this is clearly not an artifact of the process itself. The antlers in the picture a few posts above also show this angularity.

It's a look, love it or leave it. I don't mind it myself, but it is a signature look.

Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on May 08, 2023, 12:54:03 PM
...Malifaux get around it by breaking their kits up into a large number of small parts...
The keyword being large here; I think when you start breaking up minis to such a degree you have to glue on the individual fingers, things might have become slightly misguided... ::)

Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on May 08, 2023, 12:54:03 PM
...infinity use siocast...
They do? All of my Infinity models are still metal, and I know there was talk about Siocast a few years back, but I didn't know they had picked up the tech. How is the quality compared to their metals?

And I mentioned the above two companies as I knew that they had both switched from manual to digital sculpting somewhere along the line, without the angular curves that are on trial here ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on May 08, 2023, 05:39:52 PM
Yeah i guess you have a point about the limitations of the medium and production process as mentioned by@mammoth miniatures, becoming the style- I'm used to cloaks and robes on miniatures being fairly angular as that's often how they are done and have been since I first had Heroquest for Christmas as a kid. However, on this new Knight pictured the sculpting of the robe doesn't 'read' well. What is causing the billowing on such a static figure? To make deep folds like that, the cloth would be fairly heavy so would the wind blow it about this much? On a cheaper figure I would perhaps accept it but with a mind on the probable price of this, I find it disappointing. Its a shame because I was quite interested to see what the new Old World releases would be like and if they'd differ much from the Sigmar style but it seems not.
Oh and didn't someone say above its actually a resin model?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luigi on May 08, 2023, 11:29:00 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on May 01, 2023, 04:28:18 PM
That old Bretonnian infantry kit had excellent trinkets from memory. A little dog, some odd bits of animal (snacks?), various weird symbolic items among the pouches and whatnot, and a really useful animal-tailed club.  Wish I had dozens more of those clubs.

I have a bunch of those, and I have no idea where I got them since I never once bought a Bretonnian kit.
If you want I can trade them to you for... idk? Shields? I'm always looking for shields. (or possibly some dwarf bits)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 09, 2023, 08:52:35 PM
Quote from: Luigi on May 08, 2023, 11:29:00 PM
If you want I can trade them to you

Thanks for the thought man, I'll send you a PM.

On a different note, I'm in two minds about these:
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Ld3EiUxNpGB8Ojfu.jpg)

On the one hand, they're lovely sculpts (especially the tribute to the 54mm Inquisitor henchman). But on the other hand, so much of GW's current output is excellent for converting why not just make your own versions and have a lot more fun with it? Kind of a weird kit to put out, in the sense that it fills a niche a lot of people who seem to want inquisitorial warbands (the Inq28 crowd) would rather fill themselves. I guess they'll just see it as a useful addition to the bitz box.

Interestingly, given what we were discussing, the accompanying article mentions an intentional heavy load-out of gubbins for most of these minis, to help disguise the fact that several of these minis have a "twin" base sculpt.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luigi on May 10, 2023, 01:03:49 AM
On the topic of additional bits/details.

I don't mind them when they're on the sprue, but I absolutely loathe them on the actual miniature.
And this has been an issue for at least 20 years. My plastic dwarfs (that came out at the tail end of 6th edition) have medals and pendants everywhere.
Nothing that can't be fixed with 5-10 minutes of sprue clippers and Xacto knife, but it's all useles flashy and gawdry details that adds nothing to models.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 23, 2023, 04:40:13 PM
Interesting that Chaos Daemons aren't going to be part of the new Old World Warhammer, beyond a few rules letting you use them if you want to.
(Also in that category: Dark Elves, Skaven, and a couple of others).

I'm surprised, given that the Chaos powers give WHFB fluff a lot of its distinct identity. But I can also see why they might have done so: Greater Daemons used to be so powerful you really needed a massive hero to go up against them. Take Greater Daemons out, and it might be easier to avoid HeroHammer silliness and give greater priority to units etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on May 23, 2023, 04:56:23 PM
I believe that the historic period they've picked is just before a great chaos invasion and the rise of Magnus the Pious so I assume daemons etc will feature a lot more in the future.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on May 23, 2023, 05:22:52 PM
How about simply not statting up the really big stuff eh?

But I suppose they need the escalation room for future releases... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Terry Deathstrike on May 23, 2023, 05:53:43 PM
I'd assume it's also so that they don't need to re-release the entire Fantasy range.

9 armies isn't too shabby though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on May 23, 2023, 07:48:39 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on May 23, 2023, 04:56:23 PM
I believe that the historic period they've picked is just before a great chaos invasion and the rise of Magnus the Pious so I assume daemons etc will feature a lot more in the future.

Ah, sorry, wasn't aware of that story line. For me the Old World is dimly remembered 3rd and 4th ed. and part of that dim memory is that Chaos was always around in the fluff.  I might be completely wrong about that!

Quote from: Terry Deathstrike on May 23, 2023, 05:53:43 PM
I'd assume it's also so that they don't need to re-release the entire Fantasy range.

Ha, yeah, I don't think that was ever going to happen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is never going to be anything more than a niche release, isn't it? We're going to get some old kits back, probably drip-fed, and a few new models to pad out the factions. Even so, I'd have thought the existing daemon range would work fine. You'd just need to put 'em on square bases, which GW have said they'll be selling separately.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Terry Deathstrike on May 23, 2023, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on May 23, 2023, 07:48:39 PM
Ha, yeah, I don't think that was ever going to happen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is never going to be anything more than a niche release, isn't it? We're going to get some old kits back, probably drip-fed, and a few new models to pad out the factions. Even so, I'd have thought the existing daemon range would work fine. You'd just need to put 'em on square bases, which GW have said they'll be selling separately.

They teased new Kislev models back in the mists of March 2020 so not sure if they've downsized their plans for the project heavily or they plan to have "seasons" based on a particular period and particular cast of factions.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on May 24, 2023, 08:01:34 AM
Sigh,
I regret getting rid of my kislev army. I think I had everything except ungol archers.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on May 24, 2023, 09:17:07 AM
I found myself looking for some Mummies recently, only to find the army had turned to dust. I nearly bought some Mantic ones, but they didn't quite do it for me, so I'm happy that the Tomb Kings are coming back.

Whether I'll be able to afford them without taking a second job, however...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on May 24, 2023, 03:53:39 PM
I find, if you want anything approaching "Oldhammer", Etsy is awash with excellent more classic Warhammer alternate armies being 3D printed (selling both the STL's, and printed models).  Highland Miniatures makes some absolutely superb stuff.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Ti8AAOSwHYlioOXj/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on June 02, 2023, 04:11:22 PM
New 40k rules are up for free download - link (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/02/download-the-new-warhammer-40000-rules-for-free-right-here/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 02, 2023, 05:50:50 PM
Theres also a battle report with the new new rules using the Combat Patrol version... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKqmf36YDds
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 05, 2023, 10:54:39 AM
OK, a bit of an Old/Middle Hammer conundrum.

I just came across these books on an auction site and I've never ever seen them before!

I'm assuming they're separately published White Dwarf articles and army lists under the (mail?)'Troll' banner. These appear to be in Spanish, but can anyone tell me if they were ever published in English as well? Because if so, I've got some more hunting to.

And here I was thinking I had each and every publication from Rogue trader up till 6th edition on the shelf...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on June 05, 2023, 01:39:13 PM
No idea as to if they were published in English or not but I wonder if they were originally printed as part of the Citadel Journel. Perhaps if the Journal wasn't available in Spain they may have done these booklets to help sell the models?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 05, 2023, 03:19:41 PM
Pretty sure Troll was the mail order magazine way back when

Should be a few online/ebay etc in multiple languages

Also

http://www.solegends.com/cittrollmag1998/index.htm

as mentioned here

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788431.page

If that helps any ran for a few years in UK and for longer in US apparently. but the articles your looking for might be in there and then just a case of finding the physical copies if you want

which it seems via the joys of the internets might cost anything from $3 to $695 per copy...  :D

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on June 05, 2023, 03:42:43 PM
Yeah, I just found this gem of a seller (https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=285154415047&_sacat=0)... ::)

Makes me regret not being more careful with my few copies back in the day.

I know Troll magazine, and like I said; I had a couple of issues. Great conversion stuff in there. But especially the Harlequin 'codex' in that picture intrigues me. Troll magazine was in black and white and that appears to be a colour cover. Also, Troll mag was a conversion corner basically, with people making cool conversions and then Mailorder facilitating people reproducing them by offering the complete bitz packages. Those were the days.

But they never really dabbled in rules, as far as I know...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on June 05, 2023, 09:23:52 PM
yup thats the one - keeps popping up when I search now i have started down this rabbit hole  :D

so searching around gets things like

https://dokumen.tips/documents/warhammer-40k-codex-arlequines-troll-18.html?page=1

so its clearly spanish version of Troll - issue 18 - the genestealer one is issue 17.

Good luck in your further searching for the English versions, but I would expect they exist... somewhere.. but if issue twenty is going for that much.. well. probably the seller really wants to keep it. you know OOP and all that  lol

Others of course put the decimal point in a slightly more affordable place

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=troll+mail+order+magazine&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=troll+magazine&_osacat=0

as example there are varied issues available but as Daeothar says its black and white.. maybe some specials where in colour.

Nice find and blast from the past
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on June 06, 2023, 11:37:45 AM
That's a small piece of history I never knew of! Having now read all the scans on SoL, I don't feel like I missed anything in not knowing, but it was still interesting to see. Cheers!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 01, 2023, 10:18:35 PM
I've been listening to some age of sigmar audiobooks lately and I have to say, I'm actually starting to like it far more as a setting and find it very refreshing compared to the 40k universe.
So much so that I actually went into forbidden planet and bought myself several copies of the age of sigmar partworks magazine, and for less than £60 was able to put together 2 500 point armies.

I've also been noticing as i work my way through the setting that it's far more psychadelic than GW really show - it's like a slightly less grizzly version of Yragael - Urm the Mad, With mortals and their humdrum lives being the exception rather than the rule as they try and carve some civilisation and normality out of the living fabric of reality. I can certainly see why at the start GW didn't put out much of the fluff, because it has taken me a bit of time to really settle into the world and get a feel for what sot of vibe GW are trying to put across - But now that I'm in it all feels remarkably oldschool weird, very heavy metal. the grim and humdrum lives of ordinary people still exist, but they are fragile and in constant peril. There's even a direct elric reference in the way stormcasts respond to the remains of the world that was, viewing it as a burning reminder of the wheel of creation and endless cycle of worlds coming and going.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on July 01, 2023, 11:15:48 PM
The setting has real promise now, compared to when it launched. At times, having read tidbits of the lore, I've started the look at the setting as being a bit like Planescape - which is great. The problem is, probably for commercial reasons, GW won't quite divorce it from the Old World as much as they ought to. The same handful of named characters from the old setting keep popping up, which for me has the effect of making it seem small and trite despite its presentation as a vast setting spanning different realms (or planes). The Warcry gangs and the previewed Cities of Sigmar mortals show us the potential for making the setting seem like a totally different place, so let's hope they go further down that road, rather than shoehorning WFB stuff in because they have models and known characters to sell.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on July 03, 2023, 10:03:11 AM
I guess this is the appropriate thread for this - Warhammer Fan Auctions Off Extensive Vintage Collection on eBay for a Hefty $63,000 (https://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/warhammer-fan-auctions-off-extensive-vintage-collection-on-ebay-for-a-hefty-63000)

He's selling it as a single lot, so I suspect a company will buy it and break it up to sell on, making the kits even more expensive for the hobbyist :(

Fortunately, I think I have most of them anyway, so I'm safe lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 03, 2023, 11:11:05 AM
Quote from: zemjw on July 03, 2023, 10:03:11 AM
I guess this is the appropriate thread for this - Warhammer Fan Auctions Off Extensive Vintage Collection on eBay for a Hefty $63,000 (https://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/warhammer-fan-auctions-off-extensive-vintage-collection-on-ebay-for-a-hefty-63000)

He's selling it as a single lot, so I suspect a company will buy it and break it up to sell on, making the kits even more expensive for the hobbyist :(

Fortunately, I think I have most of them anyway, so I'm safe lol

I've never understood the desire to collect thousands of unopened toys. every box in that collection needs ripping open!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 03, 2023, 11:23:32 AM
Bloody 'eck  :o

A treasure trove, if I've ever seen one!

But it pains me to see how this man will profit, while there are still so many wargamers in need who would be helped tremendously with just one of those sealed boxes...  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on July 03, 2023, 08:42:36 PM
There are, no doubt thousands of such similar collections, but this particular case where they're all completely sealed and unopened is rather novel. One wonders if this fellow ever painted or even played at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 03, 2023, 10:23:04 PM
Possibly owned an old store or did a smash and grab of one back in the later 90's?
I looked at what else he has to sell and there is plenty of other stuff available as well.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: vodkafan on July 03, 2023, 11:29:37 PM
Quote from: beefcake on July 03, 2023, 10:23:04 PM
Possibly owned an old store or did a smash and grab of one back in the later 90's?
I looked at what else he has to sell and there is plenty of other stuff available as well.

 Could still be a private individual. I used to work with a bloke who, when Airfix models first came out when he was a kid, bought TWO of each kit every time they came out. One to build and one to keep. I met him much later when he was married and middle aged. He took me up in his loft and it was a treasure trove- all the series 1 kits in their poly bags, plus series 2 and 3 kits he had had as presents for birthdays etc. He told me he had a dealer come around  (I suspect the influence of his long suffering wife)  who was foaming at the mouth at the sight of his hoard but he decided not to sell. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 04, 2023, 07:04:16 PM
I'm sure I had some interactions with that guy in the CCM Yahoo group - pretty sure he's a serious collector.

He should be selling it for £40,000 though.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cypher226 on July 05, 2023, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 03, 2023, 10:23:04 PM
Possibly owned an old store or did a smash and grab of one back in the later 90's?
I looked at what else he has to sell and there is plenty of other stuff available as well.

He bought out a closing-down store, iirc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on July 05, 2023, 10:49:45 AM
Each to their own and well done/congrats to him.

Firstly for collecting it all.

Secondly for managing not to unpack any of them.

Most importantly, and amazingly - managing to part with it for any amount of money - I suspect it all being never opened has made that much easier.

Getting me to part with anything is.. difficult.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 05, 2023, 10:46:59 PM
Quote from: Tactalvanic on July 05, 2023, 10:49:45 AM
Each to their own and well done/congrats to him.

Firstly for collecting it all.

Secondly for managing not to unpack any of them.

Most importantly, and amazingly - managing to part with it for any amount of money - I suspect it all being never opened has made that much easier.

Getting me to part with anything is.. difficult.
Yep. I would have been like a kid at christmas with shrinkwrap packaging crumpled around me while still wearing pyjamas.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on July 06, 2023, 06:59:10 AM
Quote from: beefcake on July 05, 2023, 10:46:59 PM
Yep. I would have been like a kid at christmas with shrinkwrap packaging crumpled around me while still wearing pyjamas.

Not gonna lie; with such a hoard, I'd still be like that  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on July 11, 2023, 09:13:25 AM
Quote from: Daeothar on July 06, 2023, 06:59:10 AM
Not gonna lie; with such a hoard, I'd still be like that  lol

Me too!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on July 24, 2023, 07:32:09 PM
Bunch of Space Marine kits about to be retired https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/space-marine-range-update-bikes-land-speeders-and-more-are-soon-zooming-off-into-the-sunset/

Should make that box of Scouts I never quite got around to building worth something  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 24, 2023, 10:36:28 PM
Some really nice new humans for age of sigmar/warcry - I think this is the first release that's been openly sold as a dual game kit. has a very mordheim feel and if you combined it with the warhammer underworlds witchhunters it'd really fit the bill.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/the-wildercorps-hunters-pair-human-and-hound-to-scout-the-mortal-realms/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on July 24, 2023, 10:52:22 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on July 24, 2023, 10:36:28 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/the-wildercorps-hunters-pair-human-and-hound-to-scout-the-mortal-realms/
Perfect for so many other games. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ogrob on July 24, 2023, 10:55:07 PM
The Cities of Sigmar release really does look quite good. There's some bits that are a litle wierd, but on the whole I really like the design.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 24, 2023, 11:15:19 PM
The little gnome at the foot of one of the crossbow guys....  :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 25, 2023, 07:47:28 PM
I haven't been interested in a GW release for some time, but the Wildercorps look excellent for other games.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on July 25, 2023, 08:34:20 PM
Quote from: Elbows on July 25, 2023, 07:47:28 PM
I haven't been interested in a GW release for some time, but the Wildercorps look excellent for other games.

I was thinking that as well, but the scale creep in a lot of GW stuff would concern me. Definitely want to see some size comparison pictures first
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on July 25, 2023, 10:37:06 PM
Good point.  Most of my stuff is big 28's, but GW is heading to full on 40mm with some of their stuff. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on July 26, 2023, 12:24:30 PM
Quote from: Elbows on July 25, 2023, 10:37:06 PM
Good point.  Most of my stuff is big 28's, but GW is heading to full on 40mm with some of their stuff.

My stormcasts are absolutely 40mm miniatures - lovely to paint as a result but they make even primaries marines look short.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ogrob on July 26, 2023, 02:36:39 PM
Honestly I think they won't be crazy. They are meant to be regular humans and need to be to scale with the huge Stormcast. I've bought a few sets of Warcry figures and most of them, except the figures that are meant to be big lads, are not too far off to my Victrix vikings in height and head size.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on July 27, 2023, 10:17:50 AM
That's quite good to know. Also good to hear they have different people of different height just like in real life.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ogrob on July 27, 2023, 11:43:29 AM
I'll pop some size comparisons on here tonight if I remember.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ogrob on July 27, 2023, 05:30:12 PM
Right, so here's a Victrix dacian and a Victrix viking, next to in order Darkoath Savagers regular size guys, then girls, then the large hero figures from the same kit. Then a comparison with some Corvus Cabal and finally with some Kairic Acoloytes.

A lot has happened with GW and proportions, and I feel all these can have a use together. I've used several Kairic Acoloyte bodies to build very large very muscular heroes (check my fantasy thread, for example my recent Rhudaur warlord on chariot). I also used some spare Darkoath Savager heads on Frostgrave Barbarian bodies.

(https://i.imgur.com/FJlDI7w.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/97H0xQq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/S9L7xVH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yjAfVVx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NduABWg.jpg)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mason on July 28, 2023, 07:59:04 PM
Quote from: Ogrob on July 27, 2023, 05:30:12 PM
Right, so here's a Victrix dacian and a Victrix viking, next to in order Darkoath Savagers regular size guys, then girls, then the large hero figures from the same kit. Then a comparison with some Corvus Cabal and finally with some Kairic Acoloytes.....

A very useful post with the added bonus of them all being nicely painted too.
Thank you!
 :)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on July 31, 2023, 09:02:26 PM
Nice painting, Ogrob!

GW have just given some info on how the new Epic game is going to play, and the basic structure is heavily indebted to 2nd ed. Space Marine: order tokens, and shooting alternating between sides (not really IGOUGO).

Always loved that ruleset, so I'm extremely interested.
(I'm also not very well-off, so won't be buying in for the forseeable. But the rulebook sounds like it could be a useful update to 2nd ed, so I'll keep playing with my early 90s 6mm stuff.)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on August 04, 2023, 09:20:23 PM
Previews of the rest of the cities of sigmar range now up on warhammer community - I have to say that it's looking like a really nice range, clearly alot of work has gone into making them their own distinct thing and not just empire 2 electric boogaloo.

I think these my end up being some of the nicest age of sigmar miniatures. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/04/cities-of-sigmar-the-entire-magnificent-range-revealed/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: batu on August 04, 2023, 10:52:13 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on August 04, 2023, 09:20:23 PM
Previews of the rest of the cities of sigmar range now up on warhammer community - I have to say that it's looking like a really nice range, clearly alot of work has gone into making them their own distinct thing and not just empire 2 electric boogaloo.

I think these my end up being some of the nicest age of sigmar miniatures. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/04/cities-of-sigmar-the-entire-magnificent-range-revealed/

I could not agree more.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on August 04, 2023, 11:00:44 PM
They are nice but still over the top I think. The Steel Helms are quite nice for rank and file troops (not that they are rank and file any more). Good to see they've got some Dark Angels hauling about the Matriarch there lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on August 05, 2023, 07:36:06 AM
While there are bits I like overall they are way too busy for my tastes.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on August 05, 2023, 02:38:24 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on August 05, 2023, 07:36:06 AM
While there are bits I like overall they are way too busy for my tastes.

Yep.  While I dislike almost every AoS miniature I've seen, the Cities of Sigmar line is particularly egregious in the "turn it to 11" ultra-high-super-busy fantasy style GW favours.  That's why I'm actually shocked that the Wildercorps or whatever seem almost sane by comparison.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 19, 2023, 10:47:28 AM
Some separate Kill Team boxes out link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=3281529261+3206404541+1759667823)

I do like the Beastmen, but I would have liked a few more guns on them, as there's not much SF about them as they are :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: McMordain on August 20, 2023, 01:28:55 AM
Quote from: zemjw on August 19, 2023, 10:47:28 AM
Some separate Kill Team boxes out link (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=3281529261+3206404541+1759667823)

I do like the Beastmen, but I would have liked a few more guns on them, as there's not much SF about them as they are :(

All the killteam figures can be built in at least two ways. The beastmen sprues have more than ten pistol holding arms, so I would guess one can build them all wielding a pistol and a cc weapon.
If you meant they lack ranged options, I agree. It would have been nice to have some rifles and heavy ranged weapons on them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on August 20, 2023, 03:17:53 AM
I might pick up that Beastmen box as I already have a bunch of Traitor guard from Blackstone Fortress. It looks as though I may be building  a Legion of The Damned for Xenos Rampant...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on August 20, 2023, 10:39:05 AM
Quote from: McMordain on August 20, 2023, 01:28:55 AM
All the killteam figures can be built in at least two ways. The beastmen sprues have more than ten pistol holding arms, so I would guess one can build them all wielding a pistol and a cc weapon.
If you meant they lack ranged options, I agree. It would have been nice to have some rifles and heavy ranged weapons on them.

It's good that there are more pistols, but yeah, ranged weapons would have been nice.

Also, bits of armour, pouches etc, something along the lines of their Forge World bounty hunter

(https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99550599002_GorHalfHornBountyHunter01.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on October 07, 2023, 01:36:53 AM
As a long time Ogre (Ogor, sigh) fan I'm pretty happy with the new warcry set. 5 Gorgers which the metal ones are some of my favourite Ogre minis for the Ogre faction. The human faction is quite nice too
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/warcry-hunter-and-hunted-2023-eng
(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60120299003_WCHandHCoreGameLead.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dentatus on October 11, 2023, 08:28:53 PM
I'm not a GW player but I actually bought that Hunter and Hunted box set. The concept and the minis were too cool to pass on, so I'll be slotting that ogre hunt scenario into another rule set.   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 16, 2023, 06:03:15 PM
This looks fun (and not unlike some very old Confrontation-era art). New Squat ash wastes vehicle.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/ZkR4uK0i4eFWF5cK.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on October 16, 2023, 08:58:22 PM
Okay, that is cool.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on October 16, 2023, 08:59:12 PM
It is, and has huge potential. Pity it's Forgeworld - I like their models, but they tend to be more work than regular GW and much more expensive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on October 16, 2023, 09:48:27 PM
It's an interesting design...I wonder what's going on with the tracks, they look like they are designed to rotate outwards...for driving down crevices / cracks or something?

Yeah, shame its FW.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on October 18, 2023, 11:00:15 AM
Perhaps to better descend into caves or something?

The cockpit is very reminiscent of a Bathyscaphe, so perhaps is for exploring submerged cave systems?

Alternatively, the whole track assembly is detachable, and a different payload might be carried underneath?

On second viewing though; there seems to be some mechanical stuff underneath the hull which appears to run all the way from track to track. So possibly the whole arm construction is just some ridiculously over-engineerd suspension system?

But it is an incredibly cool design at any rate...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on October 18, 2023, 12:19:48 PM
it doesn't hold up to mechanical scrutiny but it looks cool and as said reminds of deep sea exploration, but maybe focused on subteran stuff, the fact that we feel like there s a purpose to the mechanisms is more than a lot of gw designs so I'm happy with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on October 18, 2023, 01:26:21 PM
I love the look of that vehicle, just a shame that it is not in plastic.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on October 18, 2023, 04:59:39 PM
Precisely.

Quote from: YPU on October 18, 2023, 12:19:48 PM
it doesn't hold up to mechanical scrutiny
Well those ladders don't seem long for this world, certainly.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on October 18, 2023, 05:28:12 PM
Quote from: Grumpy Gnome on October 18, 2023, 01:26:21 PM
I love the look of that vehicle, just a shame that it is not in plastic.

On the plus side you can always enjoy guessing what the astronomical price will be.  I can't judge the scale, but being Forgeworld, I'd give that a solid $160?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on October 18, 2023, 05:57:35 PM
Honestly wouldn't be surprised if it appears in plastic in the medium term, much like the weapons sets have been phased out of FW resin production and into GW plastic production.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on October 31, 2023, 08:45:39 PM
They've squished the two webstores together into one. The new site to rule them all is https://www.warhammer.com/

It looks like the other names redirect to this one already, so there's no getting away from it ;D

Not sure I'm one with the new design yet. It seems more designed for mobile devices, rather than a desktop browser...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on November 01, 2023, 11:26:37 AM
It's actively awful.
I build ecommerce sites for a living, for multi-million turnover companies and on down to only half a mil a year, so I see a good mix.
There's no way I would have approved my team to put that site live.

It's full of UX problems. It's a backward step on actual functionality for the customer. It's incredibly bland.
I could go on.

It's bad enough that I suspect either self-sabotage, or that the decision making is in the hands of non-subject matter experts.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 01, 2023, 12:14:34 PM
I dunno anything about designing good websites, but two things about it I thought were strikingly odd.

One, the big images that cycle through on the right hand side of the screen. Some of these were of painted miniatures and people playing wargames. But a lot were (I presume) snippets from computer games or WarhammerTV productions. I expected more emphasis on miniatures!

Two, Necromunda and so on are buried under a non-descript "Other Games" tab.

My general sense of the site is that to find anything easily you really need to know what you're looking for. That can't be good.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on November 01, 2023, 12:33:05 PM
Good design and user experience is largely common sense and convention. Their new site breaks both of those in multiple ways.

Ultimately the users are the arbiters of what's good and you've hit one of the nails on the head:

Quote
My general sense of the site is that to find anything easily you really need to know what you're looking for. That can't be good.

The comments on the official channels on Facebook are full of normal users (i.e. non-experts) pointing out many ways in which it's poor.

A site can be bad in ways that only experts would identify (in other words, it could be better/room for improvement), or it can be bad enough that ordinary visitors can articulate how and why it doesn't work well for them.
For a company the size of GW to launch a site falling so solidly into the latter category, is extraordinary.

I can't really overstate this. They turn over nearly £500 million (not online, in total) and have done a worse job on their site than most companies making one hundreth of that.

Our beloved North Star have a very outdated, basic site (sorry if they read this, don't ban me  lol ) but as a selling tool it's so, so much better than the new GW site.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 01, 2023, 02:14:43 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 01, 2023, 12:14:34 PM
My general sense of the site is that to find anything easily you really need to know what you're looking for. That can't be good.

I know GW insist on their new (tm)able names, but being able to search for old names, like Troll or Orge, and having it do the conversion would be really helpful.

I did check on the new site, but it still insists on new names, which means you have to up to date with the lore (which I am not)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on November 01, 2023, 03:47:33 PM
It seems they have gone for all the modern bells/whistles and hip bits, and forgot the essentials

As already exampled - northstar is basic but it works.

I use sites for other things that are even more basic - they only recently made their order form an online one - barely in regards one of them - but for their product and range, it works perfectly for their business.

Several others have superbly functional modern websites, that tick all the boxes needed for their businesses plus all the modern extra bleuah you would rather was not there in some cases.

Guess you would expect that from a company like GW, but it does seem as suggested its not been done by people that have to use it..

Not somewhere I go often so not too.. bothered beyond the OCD of how bad it is in a modern way.

And because of that makes me not want to go there more, and even less likely to buy their stuff direct.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on November 01, 2023, 03:50:37 PM
GW's websites have never been the pinnacle of intuitive design and use. far from it actually.

In the early 2000's, GW's site was just dire, probably handwritten in HTML and full of bugs, broken links, circular references etc. It also looked really meh, even for the time.

The same surprise as displayed here was felt by users and observers back in the day too by the way.

Inbetween they've updated their designs several times now, and all I can say is that the iteration around 2004 or about that time was at least acceptable. It was pretty navigatable and was generally stable. The ones before and after have always been either not great to look at or hard to search through (or both).

So this is not a unique occurence, but it is mind boggling (as said) that they turn over such amounts and still manage to consistently end up with websites apparently built by a couple of well meaning, but not very savvy, high schoolers...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on November 01, 2023, 04:58:02 PM
The new website marks the official death of forgeworld as a unique entity. The FAQ (because websites need an FAQ) states that FW products will now be known as Expert or 15+ resin kits. AFAICT there is no forgeworld branding on anything.
Goodbye forgeworld.

(I do like the illuminated script at the start of each product description - tis a silly details but fun.)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on November 01, 2023, 09:24:02 PM
Great to see many people who are not the target market explaining how the new GW website doesn't work for them.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 01, 2023, 11:17:08 PM
TWD - ha! Are you sure, though? I'm approaching middle age, if I am not there already, and of a fairly stable disposition to spaff my hard-earned money on the toys I wanted, or their modern equivalent, when I was a teen earning a pittance.

I was under the impression that GW thought man-children like me are very much a target market, which is why they put so much effort into nostalgia these days (as compared, say, to the early 2000s).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on November 01, 2023, 11:52:24 PM
Quote from: TWD on November 01, 2023, 09:24:02 PM
Great to see many people who are not the target market explaining how the new GW website doesn't work for them.

I'm not sure of your point here.
I am both the target market and an ecommerce expert and I can assure you, it's an objectively bad site launch.
Also see my previous post - most of the 'target audience' is vocally unhappy with it, too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on November 02, 2023, 03:13:25 AM
Calling this new website "actively awful" is being kind.  The previous version was perfect in comparison. Thankfully the search works. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: sir_shvantselot on November 02, 2023, 06:34:03 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 01, 2023, 11:17:08 PM
TWD - ha! Are you sure, though? I'm approaching middle age, if I am not there already, and of a fairly stable disposition to spaff my hard-earned money on the toys I wanted, or their modern equivalent, when I was a teen earning a pittance.

I was under the impression that GW thought man-children like me are very much a target market, which is why they put so much effort into nostalgia these days (as compared, say, to the early 2000s).

No expert but heard someone recently of GW on the Painting Phase say 11-15 years olds are the core target market and they properly don’t care about us as we are too discerning, have collections too big already and dip into too many different manufacturers instead of allowing ourselves to become ‘Whales’ hooked on the GW project alone. The 11-15 year olds have big pockets through their middle class parents.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Dean on November 02, 2023, 07:32:02 AM
Absolutely true,  way back in the day the stores would host games at the weekend so parents could drop their kids off and go shopping, then come back and spend in the store for their little darlings.  As the kids got older they progressed to roleplaying or found there was a wider range to the hobby but there was always another cadre turning 11 behind them hahahaha
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on November 02, 2023, 08:57:57 AM
Quote from: boneio on November 01, 2023, 11:52:24 PM
I'm not sure of your point here.
I am both the target market and an ecommerce expert and I can assure you, it's an objectively bad site launch.
Also see my previous post - most of the 'target audience' is vocally unhappy with it, too.

Existing fans aren't the target market - they'll buy regardless and normally do so through third party retailers.
The target market is teens and their parents - uninitiated hobbyists who will buy from the GW site exclusively for the first few years of their time in the hobby, both of whom will probably want a site that's easy to use on a mobile device and has nice clear pictures and less clutter. It's worth remembering that counterintuitively gen z and under are pretty bad with computers and not great at navigating the internet/websites. They are excellent at navigating closed UI's like a mobile app, but really struggle with what we might consider a traditional website. Going forward most companies are going to want their sites to look more like an Instagram feed.

Personally I find it not too different from the previous site - a bit clunky but hardly world ending.


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 02, 2023, 09:25:20 AM
It's been that way as long as I can remember. Birthdays and Christmas are what puts money in GW's pockets, with the massive bundle sales that the kid won't ever paint and may soon get bored of, but that's okay because the next wave of kids soon comes along. The hobby supplies are there to keep the kids ins tore instead of looking elsewhere for anything at all, but the business model is reliant on a constant crop of new customers, not retention of the old. EBay and trade sites feed the Oldhammer/Midhammer appetite for us older hobbyists.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on November 02, 2023, 12:07:45 PM
I've just tried to search for a recent release on the GW website...
It's laughably bad - It took me two attempts to get the new mark 3 space marines to appear even though I searched... mark 3 space marines!
I'm not even getting the full range of products for Horus heresy either.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 02, 2023, 06:12:58 PM
I think GW's sales tactics have changed over time though.  I agree that in the retail store environment, it's likely still the same "aim for the kids with parents who will drop $200-300 on their initial buy in" tactic.  My roommate used to manage a GW retail store in the early 2000's and that was absolutely the aim.

For actual normal sales, I think GW has hooked fully into the tournament market - realizing that people will gladly buy three $150 tanks if they're strong in the "meta".  You can see GW concentrating more on tournament support, and tournament styled games, etc.

I think GW is aware that most of their sales now come from 40-something IT guys who are making comfortable salaries and don't blink at a $30 paintbrush, etc.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 03, 2023, 02:34:00 PM
Quote from: Elbows on November 02, 2023, 06:12:58 PM

For actual normal sales, I think GW has hooked fully into the tournament market - realizing that people will gladly buy three $150 tanks if they're strong in the "meta".  You can see GW concentrating more on tournament support, and tournament styled games, etc.


Totally agree with this, and I've often wondered if they're trying to emulate Wizards of the Coast on this. The tournament/"pro-tour" scene was very good for boosting Magic sales.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on November 03, 2023, 03:28:09 PM
I would have thought it would be both.  Large numbers of smaller sales to a revolving door of teenagers plus smaller volumes of large sales to a hardcore tournament crowd of post teens that stick with it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ray Rivers on November 18, 2023, 08:07:38 PM
My problems with GW nowadays are:

1) The miniatures are pretty much 40mm. That is too damn big for me and too much of a hassle to paint.
2) Their paint pots suck. The paint dries out too fast. I still have Citadel paints when they were in Hexagon shaped pots and they still work fine.
3) The cost is exorbitant... for everything

And I still believe that made a huge error by never getting into the 15/18mm market, where IMO, a real battlefield is fought on. What a shame...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 18, 2023, 08:16:04 PM
I can't remember what scale they've chosen, other than that it's bigger than old Epic >:( Given them a year or two and you may get your wish :(

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/12/sunday-preview-war-on-an-epic-scale-in-the-age-of-darkness

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/ebVbMPAH96uDGU5A.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 18, 2023, 09:06:49 PM
From the look of the mins, I'm going to guess 10-12mm, so what would that be, 1/150, something like that?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 18, 2023, 09:12:42 PM
Yeah I think it's 10mm...the same scale as the current titans and planes.

I don't know what it is but it seems a bit sterile to me...much less attractive than Epic used to be.

Spotted the sneak peak at the new beakie assault marines...overall I like them. I wish the regular beakies had legs like those (rather than the OTT power stance from Blackadder the 3rd) ...shame the kit-bashing potential of those kits is so poor.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: batu on November 18, 2023, 09:35:51 PM
(https://www.chaosbunker.de/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/HHIL_SprueSolarScale4.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on November 18, 2023, 10:58:03 PM
Quote from: zemjw on November 18, 2023, 08:16:04 PM
I can't remember what scale they've chosen, other than that it's bigger than old Epic >:( Given them a year or two and you may get your wish :(

1/4th of whatever 40k is.

which is a great way to keep the old "what size is 40k" debate going, but honestly with the way exact size has varied over the years with stuff, using the established models as a starting point and keeping it consistent from there really does make sense to me.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 18, 2023, 11:40:18 PM
This is also the same company who refuses to acknowledge that 40K has defined editions...which is...bizarre.

However, I had heard - more or less, that it's 8mm (by human standards?), so that picture seems to back it up.  I think people decided that when they released Adeptus Titanicus.  My understanding is those infantry are all on 40mm bases, which makes it...a big game.  While the scale/scope of such a game appeals to me (not the rules, but the models), I have zero doubt the price will be prohibitively expensive.

Fortunately it gives all the 3D printer fellas a proper scale to model off of now.  Etsy is alredy awash with more stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mallo on November 19, 2023, 11:19:42 AM
The infantry (not the big stuff like ogres or dreads) are on 25mm bases.

I hate trying to work out Epic scale at the best of times, old Epic was a mix of about three actual scales. But the new stuff is really about '7mm scale', if there was such a thing. Humans are about 8mm to the top of the model, 7mm to the eyes. Marines about 9mm to the top of the model, so about 8mm to the eyes.

It depends on pose as well as much extra material is on the feet, as they all have some sort of 'tactical rock' between the legs.

Its not really 8mm scale, its not really 6mm scale. It is its own thing, what ever GW decide to throw out. You won't get away mixing most older Epic models on the same base, but these fit will fit in fine with more modern '6mm' like vanguard, who has been putting out 7mm standard humans for years now.

The best thing to do is to just say its 7/8mm size, as its not really a scale at all.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 20, 2023, 07:30:29 PM
Some more stuff on the Old World. Combat this time - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/20/old-world-almanack-fight-the-good-fight-in-the-combat-phase/
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 20, 2023, 09:23:06 PM
This is just idle speculation until the rules are out, but I don't immediately see why they're bringing the WS and BS charts and whatnot back. Is it because they think these are good rules? If so, why'd they drop them?

I mean, I can understand why they're recycling quite a bit of 2nd ed. Space Marine for the new not-Epic game. GW haven't done a game at that scale for a while, and went with something that worked well enough.

But if GW think AoS has improved on the old Warhammer with respect to stat lines etc., why go back to the (in their view) less-good way of doing things?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on November 21, 2023, 08:52:16 AM
 Who knows, they do love a tinker.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on November 21, 2023, 03:07:46 PM
I'm feeling less enthused with every preview they release, for me this is just going to be about the old kits that get a re-release, I really dislike the new brettonian mounts they've shown, to me they seem a bigger scale to the riders and the cloth work doesn't look like cloth, saying that it may just be the paint jobs they've shown, we'll see when the community gets hold of them.

As a bit of balance, I do really like the dragon skeleton they showed off the other day.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 21, 2023, 03:21:05 PM
I never played old fantasy (beyond Mordheim, Warhammer Quest, etc.) but that WS table looks bizarre to me...to the point where I'm not sure why they bothered?

The 4+ swathe more or less defeats the whole table at a glance.  You're better: 3+, you're even: 4+, you're worse 4+...even more worse?  4+.  Quite worse?  4+.  Very badly worse?  4+.

Why have a table and not simplify it if the numbers barely matter?

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 21, 2023, 06:54:29 PM
Quote from: Elbows on November 21, 2023, 03:21:05 PM
Why have a table and not simplify it if the numbers barely matter?

When I started playing in the early 90s, the table was I think a hangover from an earlier more RPG-ish iteration of the rules. There were other things a GM might think of using the WS stat for in the earliest iteration, it wasn't necessarily just for determining whether you hit your c/c opponent. So while granular differences of WS might not be significant when it came to hitting your opponent, the stat differences might be significant elsewhere.

But even by the early 90s, there was only one thing WS was used for (mainly at least, it is possible a spell or two required the target's WS, I honestly can't remember), so the table was as puzzling as you say  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on November 21, 2023, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 20, 2023, 09:23:06 PM
This is just idle speculation until the rules are out, but I don't immediately see why they're bringing the WS and BS charts and whatnot back. Is it because they think these are good rules? If so, why'd they drop them?
...
But if GW think AoS has improved on the old Warhammer with respect to stat lines etc., why go back to the (in their view) less-good way of doing things?

I think because W:TOW is an exercise in nostalgia aimed at prising cash from older WFB players.

It's not aimed at the AoS crowd and it's not trying to be a set of new/better rules.

"This, sir is the return of the old Warhammer, just like it used to be, the game you loved back in the day, when you were young and life was a stream of endless possibilities.
That'll be £200+ of your middle aged income in exchange for a starter set and rush of nostalgic endorphins"
:D

I am very much here for it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 21, 2023, 07:46:53 PM
Quote from: TWD on November 21, 2023, 07:03:56 PM
"This, sir is the return of the old Warhammer, just like it used to be, the game you loved back in the day, when you were young and life was a stream of endless possibilities.
That'll be £200+ of your middle aged income in exchange for a starter set and rush of nostalgic endorphins"
:D

 :D Yeah, when you put it like that, only a fool would change something people are looking at with rose-tinted nostalgia.

If the Empire Free Company/Militia box comes back, I'll be a happy happy man. (I didn't love the minis when built, but it had a lot of extremely useful conversion bits).   
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on November 21, 2023, 08:08:04 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 21, 2023, 07:46:53 PM
If the Empire Free Company/Militia box comes back, I'll be a happy happy man. (I didn't love the minis when built, but it had a lot of extremely useful conversion bits).   

Ooo nice call sir, got me fingers crossed.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 21, 2023, 08:30:48 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 21, 2023, 07:46:53 PM
If the Empire Free Company/Militia box comes back, I'll be a happy happy man. (I didn't love the minis when built, but it had a lot of extremely useful conversion bits).

Yeah, that box has served me well for conversions over the years. There are still a few bits and pieces left on the sprues, so it may yet see more service :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on November 21, 2023, 08:53:35 PM
I liked that box, but to be honest the Frostgrave boxes are much better now for bits.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on November 21, 2023, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Elbows on November 21, 2023, 08:53:35 PM
I liked that box, but to be honest the Frostgrave boxes are much better now for bits.

Agreed.

The one advantage of the GW box is that the torsos and legs were separate, which was really useful. I converted some Tau using Tau legs and militia torsos, something couldn't be done with the xgrave kits without serious effort.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on November 21, 2023, 10:13:56 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 20, 2023, 09:23:06 PM
This is just idle speculation until the rules are out, but I don't immediately see why they're bringing the WS and BS charts and whatnot back. Is it because they think these are good rules? If so, why'd they drop them?

I mean, I can understand why they're recycling quite a bit of 2nd ed. Space Marine for the new not-Epic game. GW haven't done a game at that scale for a while, and went with something that worked well enough.

But if GW think AoS has improved on the old Warhammer with respect to stat lines etc., why go back to the (in their view) less-good way of doing things?

The whole release is just a nostalgia cash in - GW have been riding the trend for pop culture nostalgia HARD and the old world is no exception. If they wanted to put out a good game, they'd use the middle earth rules.or age of sigmar rules - but they want to sell the memory of childhood to adults, so I'm afraid it's clunky rules all the way down.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on November 21, 2023, 11:21:07 PM
Quote from: zemjw on November 21, 2023, 09:06:10 PM
The one advantage of the GW box is that the torsos and legs were separate, which was really useful.
Yeah, I found those torsos fantastic for 40K too: making Necromunda gangers, similar doublets are common in the art and the Confrontation-era sculpts! That is why I miss the box. I actually think the separate legs/torsos made for rather clunky looking minis if you built the militia as intended.

Funny to think the Flagellant box from the same era is still for sale. That box was ahead of its time in a lot of ways.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 22, 2023, 02:33:11 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on November 21, 2023, 06:54:29 PM
When I started playing in the early 90s, the table was I think a hangover from an earlier more RPG-ish iteration of the rules. There were other things a GM might think of using the WS stat for in the earliest iteration, it wasn't necessarily just for determining whether you hit your c/c opponent. So while granular differences of WS might not be significant when it came to hitting your opponent, the stat differences might be significant elsewhere.

On a note of pure pedantry, I'm not sure that's quite right - the first-edition rules did nominally include an RPG, but the WS stat was just for fighting. The RPG is very barebones, and there's no guidance at all on using the stats creatively - or even for standard RPG activities such as climbing or sneaking. The RPG is just the combat and magic system plus character generation (which includes skills without any resolution mechanism).

And the scenario provided (The Redwake River Valley) is a more of a series of linked tabletop skirmishes than a proper RPG adventure: there's a lot of player decision-making and the opportunity for some limited roleplaying, but it's really just to shape how the later battles will play out - in many ways, it's a forerunner of the classic scenarios for Warhammer 2nd edition, with opportunities to recruit troops for the key encounters or to lose them in clashes with wandering bands of monsters. It's more Orc's Drift than Keep on the Borderlands. That's not a bad thing - it looks like it would be great fun to play out.

I think it's more the case that the wargames of the 60s and 70s were very big on tables generally - and that Warhammer was put together quickly and not heavily playtested (Rick Priestley says as much, if memory serves, in a really interesting recent YouTube interview). The table is largely unchanged since the first edition (hitting has become one pip easier, and they now bother to provide target numbers for WS over six, but that's about it). For the most part, WS becomes largely redundant after a certain level - in the first edition, there's no difference between having WS 8 or WS 9.

Where the RPG side did play a part, I think, is in having WS go up to 10 (so characters could keep advancing for a long while and eventually be able to fight balrogs, etc., one on one ). In the first edition, WS 10 is marginally better than WS 9 - but the only advantage of being WS 9 is that you're closer to being WS 10, which means you only need a 2 to hit a foe with WS 5 rather than a 3 as at WS 8 or 9. (I'm pretty sure no one ever played the RPG for that long, though I'd love here about it if people did ...)

(After looking through The Redwake River Valley, I'm quite tempted to give it a go with the kids over the Christmas holidays - I just need to be sure I have 2d4 dwarves and 3d4 sea elves to hand! Maybe the Ziggurat of Doom first, though we've played that many times using Song of Blades and Heroes.)


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 22, 2023, 02:45:36 PM
Quote from: Hobgoblin on November 22, 2023, 02:33:11 PM
(After looking through The Redwake River Valley, I'm quite tempted to give it a go with the kids over the Christmas holidays - I just need to be sure I have 2d4 dwarves and 3d4 sea elves to hand! Maybe the Ziggurat of Doom first, though we've played that many times using Song of Blades and Heroes.)

On second thoughts, it could be really good to play out The Redwake River Valley with Mordheim.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on November 22, 2023, 02:50:44 PM
Some good news on the MESBG front….

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/20/the-armies-of-the-dead-fulfil-their-oath-in-new-translucent-plastic-kits/

I like the translucent ghosts even though I felt how Jackson handled the Army of the Dead one of his worst adaptations of the books.

The Gondor building sets look very practical for more than just Middle Earth. I have been able to get Ruins and a Tower but no undamaged buildings yet so maybe now I can.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on November 23, 2023, 06:06:54 AM
I would really love them to return to the old style aesthetic for the models in the Old World.
I'm glad to see the to hit chart back. I get frustrated with 40k having average models hitting targets in melee equally well whether they are pox walkers or a tyranid hive tyrant close combat specialist.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on December 04, 2023, 10:30:09 AM
Quote from: Grumpy Gnome on November 22, 2023, 02:50:44 PM
Some good news on the MESBG front….

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/20/the-armies-of-the-dead-fulfil-their-oath-in-new-translucent-plastic-kits/

I like the translucent ghosts even though I felt how Jackson handled the Army of the Dead one of his worst adaptations of the books.

The Gondor building sets look very practical for more than just Middle Earth. I have been able to get Ruins and a Tower but no undamaged buildings yet so maybe now I can.

But...why cast them in blue, when they are green in the movies? What a weird choice.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 04, 2023, 11:04:10 AM
They're sort of a light turquoise on my monitor, so perhaps they do move into the greenish spectrum IRL?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 04, 2023, 10:27:55 PM
The image with 3 of them is a bit closer to green as well, but I do see what you mean. Curious to see what they look like in real life.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/8EvMPAKPbYRILobm.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Malebolgia on December 06, 2023, 10:40:11 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on December 04, 2023, 11:04:10 AM
They're sort of a light turquoise on my monitor, so perhaps they do move into the greenish spectrum IRL?

From the site: "The Warriors of the Dead and the King of the Dead & Heralds kits have now been recast in clear plastic with a spectral blue tint for a unique impact on the tabletop."

Compare it with this:
(https://www.looper.com/img/gallery/the-lord-of-the-ringss-army-of-the-dead-explained/intro-1598288164.jpg)

Totally different hue. Feels like a missed chance.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 07, 2023, 11:55:49 AM
Yup; that's quite the difference!

Perhaps the cyan pigment was on discount?  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on December 07, 2023, 06:54:28 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on December 07, 2023, 11:55:49 AM
Yup; that's quite the difference!

Perhaps the cyan pigment was on discount?  :D

Honestly it's probably this - a primary colour based plastic is probably cheaper to buy by the tonne than a mixed colour. GW are nothing if not frugal when it comes to material costs - I remember when plastic microbeads were made illegal in cosmetics, GW switched their texture paints to use plastic microbeads because they were suddenly cheaper than anything else as suppliers tried to clear out existing stockpiles.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on December 08, 2023, 11:26:28 AM
Just seen the Christmas bonus the staff are getting , certainly lot better than the £50 I’m getting  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on December 08, 2023, 12:03:45 PM
Quote from: 3Fingers2 on December 08, 2023, 11:26:28 AM
Just seen the Christmas bonus the staff are getting , certainly lot better than the £50 I’m getting  lol

For a full time minimum wage retail worker it's about a month and a half of extra pay or two months of mortgage/rent put aside for a rainy day. It's doubly interesting when you think that GW isn't a cooperative but has in recent years seemed to act more like one than some actual cooperatives.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on December 08, 2023, 01:44:07 PM
Quote from: Malebolgia on December 06, 2023, 10:40:11 PM
From the site: "The Warriors of the Dead and the King of the Dead & Heralds kits have now been recast in clear plastic with a spectral blue tint for a unique impact on the tabletop."

Compare it with this:
(https://www.looper.com/img/gallery/the-lord-of-the-ringss-army-of-the-dead-explained/intro-1598288164.jpg)

Totally different hue. Feels like a missed chance.

One of the rare occasions where I prefer the divergence from screen accuracy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on December 12, 2023, 03:41:09 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on December 08, 2023, 12:03:45 PM
For a full time minimum wage retail worker it's about a month and a half of extra pay or two months of mortgage/rent put aside for a rainy day. It's doubly interesting when you think that GW isn't a cooperative but has in recent years seemed to act more like one than some actual cooperatives.

It's really good at the retail employee end; it's not exactly small change even on a roughly average salary; but it's still against a backdrop of them generally underpaying for professional roles because people want to work there. It's how they end up with a pretty young, somewhat naive workforce in my opinion.

As an example, I know someone who left a role in finance at GW for a £10k payrise and better working conditions. That's a better deal than a possible Christmas bonus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 12, 2023, 04:25:56 PM
To me thats kinda suggestive of arrogance on GWs part...either that or exploitative, squeezing what they can out of their workforce before they realise and move on...kinda like how they view their customers.

I worked briefly in one of their stores and the attitude was very much that you should feel blessed to work there...oh and I was expected to work an hour or two extra unpaid every day, plus a break of only 20mins...err no thanks.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TheMightyFlip on December 12, 2023, 09:41:03 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 12, 2023, 04:25:56 PM
I worked briefly in one of their stores and the attitude was very much that you should feel blessed to work there...oh and I was expected to work an hour or two extra unpaid every day, plus a break of only 20mins...err no thanks.

That's not uncommon in a lot of industries, "oh your on a salary 37 hours a week, you dont get extra pay, but we need you to work 48 ok? Thanks!"
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on December 14, 2023, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on December 12, 2023, 09:41:03 PM
That's not uncommon in a lot of industries, "oh your on a salary 37 hours a week, you dont get extra pay, but we need you to work 48 ok? Thanks!"

Yes, this is more of an exploitative retail practices issue than a GW specific one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on December 14, 2023, 12:57:03 PM
Quote from: TheMightyFlip on December 12, 2023, 09:41:03 PM
That's not uncommon in a lot of industries, "oh your on a salary 37 hours a week, you dont get extra pay, but we need you to work 48 ok? Thanks!"

Yeah I had this in WH smiths, hamleys, Hauser and wirth and every other front of house retail-ish position I've ever worked. And none of them gave me 2 grand afterwards.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on December 14, 2023, 04:23:23 PM
Had it in supermarkets your a department supervisor on salary you have to cover if people go sick , some days I was working 5.30 am to 8.30 at night 😡
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 16, 2023, 04:40:50 PM
The Forgeworld resin Elysian Tauros Venator is reborn today as the plastic Palanite Enforcer Tauros Venator o_o

I still have the resin one mostly unbuilt in the cupboard since 2011 :( This is largely due to the fact that it was a paint some bits before building, as well as the quality of the resin (the roll cage was all over the place)

Still, the new new one is £35, the same as the cost of the resin one... Getting the resin one was a bit of a saga, documented back when I still maintained my blog (https://zemjw.blogspot.com/2011/10/forge-world-venator-saga.html)

(https://www.warhammer.com/app/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120599065_PalaniteEnforcerTaurusVenatorConcussionCannons1.jpg?fm=webp&w=920&h=948)

(https://www.warhammer.com/app/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120599065_PalaniteEnforcerTaurusVenatorConcussionCannons5.jpg?fm=webp&w=920&h=948)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on December 16, 2023, 08:04:32 PM
I like the idea of that, but where the hell does the engine sit? o_o
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on December 16, 2023, 09:28:31 PM
Quote from: JollyBob on December 16, 2023, 08:04:32 PM
I like the idea of that, but where the hell does the engine sit? o_o

Hyper efficient single cylinder micro generator that powers a series of hub motors - It's all made up anyway.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on December 16, 2023, 09:46:04 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on December 16, 2023, 09:28:31 PM
Hyper efficient single cylinder micro generator that powers a series of hub motors - It's all made up anyway.
Of course powered by handwavium ;) lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 17, 2023, 12:05:17 AM
Quote from: JollyBob on December 16, 2023, 08:04:32 PM
I like the idea of that, but where the hell does the engine sit? o_o
Flintstones style.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on December 17, 2023, 09:08:35 AM
tbh I always had the same question with the real-world vehicles that these take inspiration from.

(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:4800/format:webp/1*QQ5mVuo4Y7LWGClVGG2-gg.jpeg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on December 17, 2023, 09:35:47 AM
Looking in a model shop other day at 1/35-1/48 scale kits £35 for that isn’t that bad a price .
I can see it being used by ash waste nomads .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 18, 2023, 08:49:12 AM
I bought two of the 4x4 and one of the 6x4 Forgeworld resin ones back in the day, secondhand, but unbuilt.

They looked to be a lot of work to get to look right and in the end I abandoned the idea and sold them off. I got me a bunch of Mantic Mules instead and they were great! Also; they came in plastic, which I vastly prefer over any type of resin.

This looks like another solid build though. I might still add one as an escort/firesupport vehicle to the convoy...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 18, 2023, 03:13:18 PM
The resin ones were notoriously "Forgeworld".  Have several buddies who tried them and...they ended up in various shapes. lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 18, 2023, 03:20:11 PM
Yeah; too much work as far as I was concerned.

But they were OOP when I put them up for sale and they were gone in an instant  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 18, 2023, 04:15:20 PM
GW and Amazon studios sign agreement https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/18/warhammer-amazon-contracts-signed-the-news-every-warhammer-fan-has-been-waiting-for/

Quote
All we can tell you right now is that an elite band of screenwriters, each with their own particular passion for Warhammer, is being assembled to help bring the setting and characters you love to the screen. This illustrious group will be championed by Henry Cavill, who stands ready to take his place as executive producer – bringing his pen, sword and/or spear to the project.

TV and Film production is a mammoth undertaking. It’s not unusual for projects to take two to three years from this point before something arrives on screen. Still, things are now properly rolling, and you can bet we’ll bring you all the latest updates and cool snippets as soon as we’re able.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on December 18, 2023, 04:46:50 PM
Gawd, I hope this ends up being a Good Film; something that will be enjoyable for the average movie goer, and won't get panned by critics... but I am sceptical.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: robh on December 19, 2023, 11:03:36 AM
It's an Amazon production aimed directly at GWs core (young & impressionable) audience. Expect vast amounts of blatant "messaging" and DEI approved characters linked by a poorly written script and crap cgi.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 19, 2023, 01:06:41 PM
Quote from: robh on December 19, 2023, 11:03:36 AM
"messaging" and DEI approved characters
Sounds great! It was frankly embarrassing in 1991 trying to get my Maori and Samoan friends into 40k and they're like "Are there no brown dudes left in this universe?"

Quote from: robh on December 19, 2023, 11:03:36 AM
a poorly written script and crap cgi.
Oh, maybe not so great then.  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 19, 2023, 01:21:47 PM
I can live with crap CGI; I also play with/against poorly painted minis and terrain after all  ;D

But the script better be good; suspension of disbelief is no problem, unless the plot is completely off the rails.

It's the same with those direct to DVD or amateur films on Youtube: no matter the effects and props are crap, not even an issue that the sound sucks, but when the story is incoherent, unclear and/or obviously altered in post-production, I'm out...

Also, I just watched Reacher, and Alan Ritchson would make for a perfect Space Marine! (next to Henry himself, obviously)

(https://i2-prod.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/incoming/article29164204.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200d/0_GettyImages-1454857550.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on December 19, 2023, 01:24:47 PM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on December 19, 2023, 01:06:41 PM
"Are there no brown dudes left in this universe?"
A frequent and recurring question regarding 40K. I remember mild surprise when Codex Armageddon showed the Salamander chapter space marines as black - until then, I don't think I'd seen a non-Caucasian figure in 40k!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 19, 2023, 02:01:33 PM
Ten thousand years of evolution and interbreeding would most likely have mixed every human phenotype into a single 'race', as predicted by current models.

This would be well before the expansion of humanity out into the stars, so once we spread acoss the galaxy, all humans would be mostly identical; olive brown skin, black hair and brown eyes.

All mutations such as blue eyes, red or blond hair and fair skin would be completely gone by then.

Unless of course, there would be new and possibly even more interesting mutations during that time. But because of the Village Earth effect, those would occur, but would never be able to stabilize and spread across an isolated and limited population, because those would no longer exist.

Only after the birth of Slaanesh would human population centers (read: planetary systems) be so isolated that a population could be altered enough to make a divergent phenotype sustainable. But even then only on very isolated, small communities.

One could wonder as to how the later Imperium would react to this, xenophobic as it is. But there are hints in scattered references in books and codices that all of this fear and hate is projected outward and humans are humans are humans, as long as they don't sprout extra eyes or limbs. I believe Last Chancers mentioned a completely albino population (two of which were inducted into the Penal Legion featured in the book(s)), but there are many more.

Bottom line; the Imperium does not care about the colour of skin, hair or eyes, as long as it's not overtly mutated (bright green skin with glowing white eyes for instance). An Imperial citizen is just that, and the Imperium, the Administratum and Echlesiary see them as such. Intra-human racism would be gone, the concept alien (sic) to them.

By this time, it's absolutely possible for entire populations on planets to have pale skin and red hair. Or blue eyes and black skin, or red eyes and grey skin. But the majority of human populations would still be that olive skinned, brown eyed phenotype they inherited from their Terran ancestors, and when they have regular contact with other humans, they would slowly but surely be absorbed into the 'regular' Human genepool again.

So any looks we assign to our Imperial miniatures are purely made up by ourselves, probably inspired by our own frame of reference. This goes for GW/BL authors just as well, so we might still catch references of blonde primarchs etc, but I myself like to adhere to the idea that 90% of all human population would have very similar skin-, hair- and eye colours...

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: jon_1066 on December 19, 2023, 03:29:19 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on December 19, 2023, 02:01:33 PM
Ten thousand years of evolution and interbreeding would most likely have mixed every human phenotype into a single 'race', as predicted by current models.

This would be well before the expansion of humanity out into the stars, so once we spread acoss the galaxy, all humans would be mostly identical; olive brown skin, black hair and brown eyes.

All mutations such as blue eyes, red or blond hair and fair skin would be completely gone by then.

...

I don't think genetics works like that.  It's a bit like saying humans will all have the same shaped nose and the same predisposition to type 2 diabetes.  There is plenty of room for genetic diversity within a population, otherwise how else would red hair or blue eyes still be present (after all it's had thousands of years to be bred out from the European population).  Those genes won't be bred out unless there is genetic pressure for them to be bred out so you'll just have them as part of the normal variance in the population.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 19, 2023, 03:44:22 PM
But that's exactly how they work.

Blue eyes have been with us somewhere between 6 to 10 thousand years, white skin is a mutation that occurred first around 8 thousand years ago.

The reason it was prevelant in the northwest of Europe was because of the population here being isolated enough from the larger genepool for the genes causing blue eyes and white skin to become more widespread.

Going further south, we can see skin, eye and hair colours gradually becoming darker again.

Red hair is more common in Ireland, because the gene(s) causing this colour became isolated in the relatively small population on the island.

And all of this occurred within a relatively short period of time.

But with travel now being infinitely more easy, fast and cheap compared to back then, it stands to reason that all different genomes will eventually melt together into a common equilibrium, which would be olive skin, black hair and brown eyes. Especially given a period roughly twice as long.

This is not to say that individual instances of red hair, blue eyes or white skin could never occur anymore; they would just not be dominant enough in the global population to create phenotypical identical groups.

Unless said groups would once again become isolated :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luigi on December 19, 2023, 04:04:59 PM
Any thoughts on the upcoming relaunch of Warhammer Fantasy?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Pattus Magnus on December 19, 2023, 04:22:15 PM
I’m happy to see that some of the old plastic models will be back in production. I haven’t followed the WFB rules for quite a few editions (3rd was the high point of my WFB gaming, with some “old hammer” since then) so I don’t have a strong investment in that aspect.

That said, I am curious about what direction the new version will go on some of the game mechanics - resurrecting the to-hit table had me scratching my head (the change in AoS to a single target number in each profile was simpler and didn’t feel to me like game play lost much from the shift). It may end up being kind of like the new version of Epic 40K - sort of like the classic version, but stripped down a bit.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 19, 2023, 04:40:20 PM
Quote from: Luigi on December 19, 2023, 04:04:59 PM
Any thoughts on the upcoming relaunch of Warhammer Fantasy?

There were some thoughts a few pages back, but thanks for trying to bring us back on topic  ;)

I see they've just published some stuff about how army lists work. I really like the way there are multiple required units: the Brettonians must have at least one unit of knights and one unit of peasants. That should mean the armies look pretty flavour-ful. Old Warhammer, at least 3rd/4th from memory, suffered from having flavour-ful lists but players eschewing 90% of the options on any given list.

Also, major heroes are restricted not just in terms of % of total army cost, but also in terms of size of army, something like 1 per 1k points. I don't know if that will make it more or less Herohammer. (If I can only take one major hero, does it makes sense for me to max their load out to make them extra-super-major? Hard to tell at this point).
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luigi on December 19, 2023, 04:58:45 PM
I'm... very neutral about it TBH.

It's always nice to see support for a favourite game but I do have to admit that in the almost 10 years the game was abandoned the community had develop on its own in terms of rules and ways to play.

As time goes by I've also found myself less and less interested in the game mechanics themselves and more involved with lore building and the painting aspect of the hobby with the rules themselves being just an excuse to put miniatures on the table.

Having said that, I'm happy to see restrictions on list building that seem to suggest a less cheesy approach to the  game.

As per the models... I'm hoping on a flood of plastic on the second hand market, but other than that I'm very indifferent I already have miniautres to last a lifetime so I won't need to rush and get anything new.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 19, 2023, 05:43:26 PM
To be fair, that's more or less always been Games Workshop's key to success.  Their games are generally middling to crap.  However, their aesthetics and lore are what actually drive their business (and they're well aware of it).  I think a lot of people are in the same neutral position.

They like the look of the Old World, the nostalgia (I do as well, though mainly from a more Mordheim standpoint), but then that's combined with mediocre rules and eye-watering prices. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on December 19, 2023, 07:47:24 PM
Quote from: Luigi on December 19, 2023, 04:04:59 PM
Any thoughts on the upcoming relaunch of Warhammer Fantasy?

I give it five years before they quietly drop it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on December 19, 2023, 08:32:37 PM
I'd be in it for the nostalgia however the range would be too late for my tastes. I've almost managed to get the entire 90's undeaqd catalogue which I still need to put a lick of paint on.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Khusru2 on December 21, 2023, 02:07:52 PM
I can see all those WWE and UFC fighters being offered roles. They all seem Orc size these days. Perhaps The Rock as a warboss?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on December 21, 2023, 03:33:34 PM
Actually The Rock would be perfect as a Salamander Space Marine. Somehow the CGI Sally in Pariah Nexus strongly reminded me of him...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 24, 2023, 09:07:29 PM
The plastics from 4th Ed. 40k are coming to Made to Order...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/24/sunday-preview-return-to-the-battle-for-macragge/

The terrain is still pretty sweet and its a fairly nice and simple collection of minis.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on December 26, 2023, 01:30:54 PM
Tomb Kings and Bretonians up first for old world release

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/26/warhammer-the-old-world-the-tomb-kings-of-khemri-revealed/

Quote
There is no single launch box for Warhammer: The Old World. Instead, there are two separate – and massive – core army boxes, each containing a full 1,250-point army with dozens of all-plastic miniatures each. On top of that, you get a complete 352-page hardback Warhammer: The Old World rulebook, a four-page reference sheet, 20 D6 dice, one six-sided scatter dice, three weapon templates, two classic red plastic measuring sticks, and transfer sheets.

I hope they plan to re-release individual boxes as well, as these do not sound like cheap options.

No date or prices just yet, got to build the tension...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 26, 2023, 04:35:23 PM
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/26/whats-coming-to-warhammer-40000-in-2024/

Looks like kroot are back...either a single rider or a unit, about 40s into the video.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on December 26, 2023, 06:15:59 PM
What I find more than slightly amusing is that one of the biggest issues with Warhammer Fantasy was that to really play the game you generally needed large armies, and the buy-in cost was pretty eye-watering - and that's 10+ years ago.

So they re-launch it with two army boxes which I can easily see being $300+ a pop...strong strategy.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on December 26, 2023, 07:45:01 PM
I was kind of surprised at the size of those two armies given they were 1250pts each...I'm sure back in 4th they'd have been half the size.

I'd be interested to have a flick through the books but its the return of some old plastic sets that I'm interested in but the new kits make it a pain. No wonder Stargrave, Frostgrave & Oathmark kits are so popular.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Basementboy on December 26, 2023, 07:56:31 PM
I have to agree about the kit selection feeling rather muddled- if they’d re-released the old range I would’ve bought it for nostalgia’s sake, and if they made a new line of lower fantasy miniatures I would likewise have bought them… but now that they’re trying to do both there’s clearly going to be some serious scale creep, and the proportions on some of the new plastics look positively ridiculous due to their attempts to fix that… lol
I’m still happy that we might be getting some new lore and art for WFB though, and it’s nice that the community around the old game is getting recognised by GW :)
All in all, I won’t be buying any models, but I’ll probably pick up some books on EBay and give them a look :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on December 26, 2023, 08:01:55 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 24, 2023, 09:07:29 PM
The plastics from 4th Ed. 40k are coming to Made to Order...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/12/24/sunday-preview-return-to-the-battle-for-macragge/

The terrain is still pretty sweet and its a fairly nice and simple collection of minis.

This was the first new starter set from my childhood and for once I was sorely tempted to give in to nostalgia. But £90 is too rich for my blood.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on December 26, 2023, 08:14:42 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on December 26, 2023, 07:45:01 PM
I was kind of surprised at the size of those two armies given they were 1250pts each...I'm sure back in 4th they'd have been half the size.

That strikes me as a good thing, given the restriction on major heroes is roughly 1 per 1k points. It makes a 1k battle look like it might involve a number of interesting units and hardly any big kill-everything heroes.

I've no nostalgia for the Macragge box. 2004 wasn't an era I enjoyed much.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Ultravanillasmurf on December 30, 2023, 02:02:16 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on December 26, 2023, 08:01:55 PM
This was the first new starter set from my childhood and for once I was sorely tempted to give in to nostalgia. But £90 is too rich for my blood.
And you have to wait 180 days....
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 07, 2024, 02:35:00 PM
Interesting that some of the older kits GW are bringing back into production are still metal. Presumably it's simply economically sensible since they'll have retained the moulds and likely kept some spincasting machinery in storage, But given how much of a deal they've made about getting old kits back up to snuff, and the new kits being made in forgeworld resin, I'm surprised they didn't make a switch to resin for the old stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on January 07, 2024, 03:00:45 PM
It might just be a temporary solution till they update figures to new materials or sculpts.

Otherwise it seems like almost everything's out of stock now, even with the couple of resellers I looked at.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dickiegranthum on January 07, 2024, 04:35:27 PM
Quote from: voltan on January 07, 2024, 03:00:45 PM
It might just be a temporary solution till they update figures to new materials or sculpts.

Otherwise it seems like almost everything's out of stock now, even with the couple of resellers I looked at.

Here as well.

It’s always that way - impossible to get what you want to order on day one, and then only sporadic restocks for North America. Horus Heresy is just as bad.

Super frustrating. I forgot all about it until this morning, and it’s gone, everywhere.

Well done, GW. Idiots.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 07, 2024, 04:48:48 PM
I got the email just after 10am (uk) time yesterday, and popped on to have a look. The queueing time was over an hour, so I didn't wait ;D

I looked again about teatime and got in with no problems, but the place was cleaned out. I tried to get on to check something later on, but the queue was back, although only 4 minutes. I still didn't wait.

I too wondered about the metal. I'm curious to see what a generation that has grown up on plastic makes of it, especially if it's still the same white metal, as that stuff was brutal to work with.

The prices were less than I had expected, but still a lot of cash for not that much stuff :(
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on January 07, 2024, 09:12:46 PM
On the up side ebay is flooded with bretonnians and the prices are cheaper than new GW box sets  o_o ... what a joke.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dickiegranthum on January 07, 2024, 09:45:58 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on January 07, 2024, 09:12:46 PM
On the up side ebay is flooded with bretonnians and the prices are cheaper than new GW box sets  o_o ... what a joke.

That’s just too damn funny. The resellers getting screwed? Awesome. 🤣
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 07, 2024, 10:41:06 PM
I looked. I saw. No.

I will however now take a peak at e-bay-brets.. lol

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vladimir Raukov on January 09, 2024, 01:10:57 AM
Over 400 dollarydoos for dudes with no skin? Tell 'em they're dreamin'!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 09, 2024, 01:24:31 AM
I'm a bit gutted that they are only going to be focussing on those 9 armies and the others are "legacy" which they've stated saying they won't be updating them. I've got a bunch of ogres and undead that look to be staying in their boxes for some time. I might pick up the rules when they ccome down in price.
My plans of an all squig army might come to fruition some time too when I get more cash seeing as O&G are a focus.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 09, 2024, 06:49:57 AM
@Beefcake - An all squig army? I'd like to see that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 09, 2024, 08:01:18 AM
haha. Mostly me dreaming. Unless I splurge and get a resin 3d printer and purchase some things that look similar to squigs.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dickiegranthum on January 09, 2024, 06:59:19 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 09, 2024, 06:49:57 AM
@Beefcake - An all squig army? I'd like to see that.

My 40k Orks army is themed “Squigs Gone Wild” - I’ve put squigs in Killa Kans, bouncing everywhere; giant squigs as often as possible. It’s squigtastic!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 09, 2024, 08:13:38 PM
Sounds crazy...I love it!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on January 09, 2024, 08:28:36 PM
Quote from: dickiegranthum on January 09, 2024, 06:59:19 PM
My 40k Orks army is themed “Squigs Gone Wild” - I’ve put squigs in Killa Kans, bouncing everywhere; giant squigs as often as possible. It’s squigtastic!
That sounds fun.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on January 11, 2024, 03:12:54 PM
Went into Smiths today and came across issue 1 the new 40K Hachette partwork Combat Patrol. For £2.99 you get a terminator captain and wing tyranid prime and 6 d6. Issue 2 has 3 Von Ryan's Leapers for £6.99, and then Issue 3 has 5 marines for the usual cover price of £9.99.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 11, 2024, 06:56:57 PM
 That actually sounds like a sweet deal!

I'm sure we'll see them pop up on Ebay, hugely inflated, shortly... ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 13, 2024, 09:59:59 AM
Nothing in my local Tesco or Asda  :(

Not sure if that means they've been grabbed, or if they're just not bothering to stock them (although they do stock White Dwarf)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on January 13, 2024, 04:48:42 PM
Quote from: zemjw on January 13, 2024, 09:59:59 AM
Nothing in my local Tesco or Asda  :(

Not sure if that means they've been grabbed, or if they're just not bothering to stock them (although they do stock White Dwarf)

Things are a bit odd with this release. I've not seen any ads on TV, and there is very little info on the Hachette website. It's not listed by Forbidden Planet yet. It was pure chance that I spotted it in Smiths, I'd gone in to see if the latest WSS was out yet!

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 13, 2024, 04:55:26 PM
Maybe it's a test in a few areas first. Have heard that's quite common.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 13, 2024, 04:58:39 PM
Quote from: Onebigriver on January 13, 2024, 04:48:42 PM
Things are a bit odd with this release. I've not seen any ads on TV, and there is very little info on the Hachette website. It's not listed by Forbidden Planet yet. It was pure chance that I spotted it in Smiths, I'd gone in to see if the latest WSS was out yet!
I keep forgetting FP stock those titles. There's not one near me, but buying online is definitely an option with them

The latest WSS just dropped through my door this morning, so if it wasn't in the shop, it will be soon :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on January 13, 2024, 05:47:32 PM
Quote from: zemjw on January 13, 2024, 04:58:39 PM
I keep forgetting FP stock those titles. There's not one near me, but buying online is definitely an option with them

The latest WSS just dropped through my door this morning, so if it wasn't in the shop, it will be soon :)

Cheers, will look next week!

According to Fauxhammer, the first 5 issues are being released to stockists as a trial to see if a full run is viable, but nothing to suggest this is regional. Maybe the staff at my local Smiths were overzealous and put them on the shelves early.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 13, 2024, 09:47:56 PM
The hachette part works are great - I've been selectively buying certain issues and have built an entire stormcast eternal army for about £100 - and not a small army either!


On that topic - next year age of sigmar will officially be 10 years old. My how time flies.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 14, 2024, 08:49:27 AM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on January 13, 2024, 09:47:56 PM
On that topic - next year age of sigmar will officially be 10 years old. My how time flies.

Holy crap, surely not :o I might still have the WD where they hinted at the end of the old world. It was one of the last issues where I actually understood some of what they were talking about, where race names made sense and weren't just jumbles of letters you could trademark  :(

Even 9 years makes me feel old. I'd better post this now, as I have to yell at some Goblins to get off my lawn

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on January 14, 2024, 09:40:34 AM
I can't even navigate their Web store any more looking for specific factions. You can't even sort by just good guys and bad guys because there's 3 or more mega factions with silly names.
Maybe I'm just old.. or simple.. or both. But I liked elves, humans and dwarves.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dickiegranthum on January 14, 2024, 03:51:44 PM
Quote from: Constable Bertrand on January 14, 2024, 09:40:34 AM
I can't even navigate their Web store any more looking for specific factions. You can't even sort by just good guys and bad guys because there's 3 or more mega factions with silly names.
Maybe I'm just old.. or simple.. or both. But I liked elves, humans and dwarves.

Fully agree - the new website is one of the worst redesigns, ever. A friend of mine who does design and I were talking, and he said they’ve added 3-4 clicks to everything you want to do, which is NOT what one wants in a webstore.

Nomad Investments: we’re shit, and keep making things worse. (TM)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Codsticker on January 14, 2024, 04:01:25 PM
Quote from: dickiegranthum on January 14, 2024, 03:51:44 PM
... he said they’ve added 3-4 clicks to everything you want to do, which is NOT what one wants in a webstore.
That's what I noticed too; I thought that was mildly annoying.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 14, 2024, 04:44:03 PM
I do find the "buy" banner that appears and takes up a big chunk of tablet screen particularly annoying.

That and being forced to confirm my currency choice every single time. If only there was a way to store that information locally between visits  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dickiegranthum on January 14, 2024, 08:11:48 PM
Quote from: zemjw on January 14, 2024, 04:44:03 PM
I do find the "buy" banner that appears and takes up a big chunk of tablet screen particularly annoying.

That and being forced to confirm my currency choice every single time. If only there was a way to store that information locally between visits  ::)

No cookie for NI!  lol

Anytime I register to wait for an out of stock product (complete waste of time, as by the time I click through, it will be sold out again, anyway!), I have to log back in. Every single time.

Memphis is ALWAYS short stock, while UK has loads; by switching countries I can see all the stuff I would buy.

Their inventory system is worse than their website.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 15, 2024, 04:30:30 PM
Per the latest warhammer community article, GW will be releasing an old unreleased brettonian sculpt from 2008 - in METAL.
This will be their first new* release of a metal single mini in a long time so i'll be curious to see what the price is.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 16, 2024, 12:21:38 AM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on January 15, 2024, 04:30:30 PM
Per the latest warhammer community article, GW will be releasing an old unreleased brettonian sculpt from 2008 - in METAL.
This will be their first new* release of a metal single mini in a long time so i'll be curious to see what the price is.

I've no idea, but someone is going to be mighty pissed. 

Jason (Ye Alchemist on ebay) sold one of the unreleased resin versions on ebay a few years ago for somewhere north of £750 if I recall. Might even have been significantly more - my memory is hazy. The price was driven by the rarity, only two known examples had been seen outside the GW studio at the time.

That dude is now the proud owner of a resin master of a released miniature. Poor dude.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dickiegranthum on January 16, 2024, 04:06:35 AM
Quote from: Belligerentparrot on January 16, 2024, 12:21:38 AM
I've no idea, but someone is going to be mighty pissed. 

Jason (Ye Alchemist on ebay) sold one of the unreleased resin versions on ebay a few years ago for somewhere north of £750 if I recall. Might even have been significantly more - my memory is hazy. The price was driven by the rarity, only two known examples had been seen outside the GW studio at the time.

That dude is now the proud owner of a resin master of a released miniature. Poor dude.

Epic … love the level of failure in the collector types.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on January 16, 2024, 04:21:10 AM
Wouldn't that just be the expected RRP?  ;D

I'm thinking 110AUD..
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 16, 2024, 08:52:56 AM
Quote from: dickiegranthum on January 16, 2024, 04:06:35 AM
Epic … love the level of failure in the collector types.  lol

Why? Did mini collectors bully you a lot at school or something? I'm not trying to be insulting, I just genuinely don't understand the comment.

In my experience the collecting niche of our already niche hobby is a very friendly and welcoming place: the old CCM group is the only internet community I've found that rivals LAF in that respect. I didn't see any failure there, just lots of impressive collections of well painted and very rare minis.

The poor dude who shelled out for the resin grail knight had exceptionally bad luck as it turns out - I don't know of any other case like it - but it doesn't seem like a failure to me.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 16, 2024, 11:11:41 AM
Well, it still is a resin, studio-only master, so should still be worth plenty more than a new pewter one. I find that the story behind ultra rare miniatures is at least as important as the physical model.

And he knows where and how he got it...

And yes; the CCM group (and also the 1999-collectors group) formed a wonderful community :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on January 16, 2024, 05:41:55 PM
Reference the Hachette Partwork for Combat Patrol, it turns out the trial is regional

https://www.fauxhammer.com/news/warhammer-40000-combat-patrol-announcement/#How_Does_a_Trial_Work
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 19, 2024, 02:10:06 PM
A couple of interesting things on the GW website today: lots of new Kroot and plastic Solar Auxilia incoming.

The Kroot aren't quite as good as the Kill Team Kroot in my opinion, but I imagine you could make a pretty good-looking squad mixing the two kits together.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 19, 2024, 09:48:10 PM
I'm excited for the new witch-hunters warband for age of sigmar - I like the idea of adding them to my stormcast army, old school inquisition style. Plus city of secrets was the first age of sigmar book I read and it really sold me on the world, so having the characters on the table will be fun.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on January 20, 2024, 08:49:30 PM
Ooh some more details on the plans for made to order in the update on orcs.

Apparently the Maurauder Giant is making a return?! But will it be cheaper than classic ebay prices?

"Made to Order
On top of all that, there’ll be a hand-curated selection of Made to Order Orcs and Trolls for the true connoisseurs, including none other than the fabled Marauder Giant – who, like all the others in this tranche, is returning in metal."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 20, 2024, 09:03:50 PM
That was the most interesting WoW article so far, especially the made to order stuff and the giant. It's nice to see those boar boyz return too.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: voltan on January 20, 2024, 09:49:27 PM
Those made to order announcements have been the most potentially expensive thing for me so far, was kinda tempted by the grail knights, luckily they'd sold out ages before I saw them.
 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on January 21, 2024, 07:19:52 PM
More preview news - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/21/sunday-preview-the-first-wave-of-old-world-made-to-order/

Lots of metal, and Orcs and Goblins coming back next

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on January 22, 2024, 01:28:54 AM
Mm, so made to order only available for limited FOMO cycles.

Should be enough for GW to cash in on old mini prices while maintaining a high ebay price for old minis
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: majorsmith on January 22, 2024, 08:36:06 AM
I don’t get the excitement of the old world, just another cash cow for GW to milk
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 22, 2024, 10:38:30 AM
What gets me is the atmosphere around the hype of: "At last we can play Old World WFB battles again!" As if they ever had to stop. But that's the "GW Hobby" for you, I suppose. Encouraged to stick with what's official and supported...
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 22, 2024, 04:01:34 PM
My main bugbear is that in many cases these are sculpts that people HATED when they were avaliable. The orc boys were loathed - players had been crying out for new orc plastics for years - then they went away for a couple of years and people are now THRILED to have them back. They were still available well into age of sigmar but somehow the new packaging is like some sort of magical nostalgia filter that makes people forget how many of these orcs you can still find on ebay/carboot sales/in shops with older age of sigmar stock.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 22, 2024, 04:38:07 PM
:D I know what you mean. I'm not really one for nostalgia, a crap sculpt in the 80s or 90s is still a crap sculpt now.

The plastic orc boyz do look good mixed with the 40k ork boyz.

For me the Old World suffers from the same problems that WFB suffered from, too many minis needed and the sculpts are either dated or dialled up to 11.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 22, 2024, 06:14:50 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 22, 2024, 04:38:07 PM
:D I know what you mean. I'm not really one for nostalgia, a crap sculpt in the 80s or 90s is still a crap sculpt now.

The plastic orc boyz do look good mixed with the 40k ork boyz.

For me the Old World suffers from the same problems that WFB suffered from, too many minis needed and the sculpts are either dated or dialled up to 11.

I've also already seen alot of "well I will play because I loved total war warhammer but I'll be proxying x/y/z"
Which is fine, totally great, absolutely what you should do if you want to play and like those models. BUT let's not pretend it's not part of why they killed the game in the first place - the buy in cost for a new player to catch up to the existing player base was INSANE, so people weren't buying in. Right now everyone is roughly on the same level but it's still going to be a real slog for a new player in 2 or 3 years time to make an army for TOW compared to the more freeform army building of AOS. GW are evidently angling for TOW to act as a horus heresy style system to the more mass appeal of Age of sigmar, but The horus heresy didn't take off fully until GW brought it into plastic and then made multiple cheap starter sets that acted as a shortcut to army building, letting new players catch up the the established player base with their existing and finished forces of forgeworld kits. But that only worked because the HH can be played largely with the same units regardless of your army choice.

Either the game maintains enough momentum to have a rolling base of new players buying in, or in a few years time we see the same tiered system we had with fantasy - Established players not buying anything, and new players locked out of the game because of the cost of catching up needed to play any games.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luigi on January 22, 2024, 08:05:54 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on January 22, 2024, 04:01:34 PM
My main bugbear is that in many cases these are sculpts that people HATED when they were avaliable. The orc boys were loathed - players had been crying out for new orc plastics for years - then they went away for a couple of years and people are now THRILED to have them back. They were still available well into age of sigmar but somehow the new packaging is like some sort of magical nostalgia filter that makes people forget how many of these orcs you can still find on ebay/carboot sales/in shops with older age of sigmar stock.

Eh... it's the same reason why so many people stopped playing the game. It's not like somehow the game  didn't exist anymore yet now a lot of people talk sa if they're finally allowed to play again.
As much as I don't get it, (and I really don't) a lot of people need a game to be "supported" in order to devote any time and effort to it.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 22, 2024, 08:56:52 PM
Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on January 22, 2024, 06:14:50 PM
Right now everyone is roughly on the same level but it's still going to be a real slog for a new player in 2 or 3 years time to make an army for TOW compared to the more freeform army building of AOS.

I'd guess in three years TOW will be mostly done. Not that I have any insider knowledge or anything, TOW just strikes me as the new Necromunda - they'll give it a massive push for 2-3 years, release one big expansion at the end of that time, and then less and less frequent, smaller and smaller, releases like we're seeing with Necromunda. Which does seem to be broadly the pattern of anything that isn't the big 3. Warhammer as you say had problems when it was one of the big 3, but (I would guess) it isn't going to be that this time around.

TWD noted further up the thread that this release is just a play for nostalgia-driven spending, it isn't about making a significantly better game. I agree some of the mini choices are odd given they were complained about at the time, I imagine they're going with what was most cost-effective (for GW, not for us  lol) to bring back. But I also imagine the "I hate AoS, GW should never have wiped the Old World" folk will still part with considerable sums of money to own minis they once disliked  :)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: TWD on January 23, 2024, 06:13:45 AM
Quote from: Gibby on January 22, 2024, 10:38:30 AM
What gets me is the atmosphere around the hype of: "At last we can play Old World WFB battles again!" As if they ever had to stop. But that's the "GW Hobby" for you, I suppose. Encouraged to stick with what's official and supported...

Yes I'm very amused by the folk posting about "finally being able to play Warhammer again" - I've played hundreds of games of Warhammer since AoS came out.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on January 23, 2024, 11:15:00 AM
Quote from: TWD on January 23, 2024, 06:13:45 AM
Yes I'm very amused by the folk posting about "finally being able to play Warhammer again" - I've played hundreds of games of Warhammer since AoS came out.

I thought of your games when I was posting that.  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on January 24, 2024, 01:44:45 AM
It's even more weird with things from companies like GW - which, if they're popular, often generate vast online communities.  Look at the people still playing Mordheim/original Necromunda, etc.  The community resources are vastly superior to normal GW publications, and nowdays you have huge libraries of 3D printable miniatures, etc.

The consensus from some podcasts I listen to was that more people are still playing "old" Necromunda over new Necromunda...simply because the amount of fan-made content, etc.

I know Fantasy had "WAP" and even the large group of people playing Kings of War using GW armies, etc. 
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 24, 2024, 09:30:39 AM
When I want to play oldhammer, I will grab the older rules set and go at it.

It has always baffled me that people stop playing certain games or editions, simply because they're no longer officially supported or were surpassed by a new edition.

I mean; they were perfectly good games when they were current, so why not play them anymore when they are the ones you like!

There are currently no competative players in my group (anymore), therefore the need to keep up with what's new and 'official' is completely absent. So why do they still want to play the latest edition, while we all own the old version that we played and loved for so long and were perfectly content with?

Just weird...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 24, 2024, 10:28:11 AM
+1 just what Daeothar just typed.

I kept trying but could not be bothered.

I guess because they are doing it for the next customer catch, I wish them and GW the best.

Same old.

I have old warhammer on the shelf in 3rd Edition flavour - good enough. I have plenty other rules to play with when I wish.

Really does not matter as we all have opinions varied regards the good/bad edition and so on. It'll do.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 25, 2024, 08:42:18 AM
The wonders of 3D printing...

Just browsing the auction sites, as one does, when I came across these beauties:

(https://images1.vinted.net/t/01_00ecc_TkqWakmu1ftpPkppJQqoNwf4/f800/1706119322.jpeg?s=7fa0bc0e0f41a494fa962b308ab455dd17c998ec)
Marketed as 'Vespa Marines'.

Gave me a right chuckle  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on January 25, 2024, 10:24:26 AM
yup so many people so many varied ideas, and such wonders can be produced
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Onebigriver on January 25, 2024, 09:01:39 PM
Issue 2 of Combat Patrol is out with three Tyranid Von Ryan's Leapers for £6.99. The boxes of 3 Leapers sell for around £30.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: syrinx0 on January 26, 2024, 04:18:05 AM
Quote from: Daeothar on January 25, 2024, 08:42:18 AM
The wonders of 3D printing...
Just browsing the auction sites, as one does, when I came across these beauties:

Marketed as 'Vespa Marines'.
Gave me a right chuckle  :D
Ok. I could buy and paint those.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Luigi on January 26, 2024, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on January 25, 2024, 08:42:18 AM
The wonders of 3D printing...

Just browsing the auction sites, as one does, when I came across these beauties:

(https://images1.vinted.net/t/01_00ecc_TkqWakmu1ftpPkppJQqoNwf4/f800/1706119322.jpeg?s=7fa0bc0e0f41a494fa962b308ab455dd17c998ec)
Marketed as 'Vespa Marines'.

Gave me a right chuckle  :D

I now need, and I mean NEED dwarfs riding a Vespas and Lambrettas
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 26, 2024, 09:19:59 PM
I went back with the intention of buying them and painting them up as Angry Marines, but they were already gone...  ::)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on January 26, 2024, 10:04:21 PM
Shriner Marines! I love them, please can you post a link?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 26, 2024, 10:59:37 PM
Had to do some searching, as the auction had already disappeared, but I eventually found them through an image search based on the above picture.

They're free models available through Cults3D:

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/scooter-cosmic-soldiers (https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/scooter-cosmic-soldiers)

Have at it  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 27, 2024, 08:22:17 PM
Angry Marines!  Yes!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on January 29, 2024, 05:33:55 PM
Not nearly as cool as marines on vespas, but.....

... one of the new event miniatures for the coming year. I really like this, and it is pleasingly uncluttered by AoS standards.  I expect we'll see lots of Inq28 bird-knights too  :) (I'll definitely be doing one)
(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/rAfswBoyp4lXTIMV.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 29, 2024, 05:41:59 PM
Ooh, I really like this one!  :-*
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: JollyBob on January 29, 2024, 05:44:03 PM
That's really rather splendid.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 29, 2024, 06:19:08 PM
Nice and uncluttered as you say BP...but the resting position of that warpick / hammer seems oddly uncomfortable...would it not just slide down the shoulder pad (blades/ feathers?) till it rests on the coller?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: batu on January 29, 2024, 06:46:59 PM
Yeah, very nice. I shame it is only available at events.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 29, 2024, 07:54:33 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 29, 2024, 06:19:08 PM
Nice and uncluttered as you say BP...but the resting position of that warpick / hammer seems oddly uncomfortable...would it not just slide down the shoulder pad (blades/ feathers?) till it rests on the coller?

It's magnetic  ;D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on January 29, 2024, 08:23:46 PM
:D Now I have a vision of it stuck there and anytime the knight sees someone he grabs hold of the handle and tries to make it look natural :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on January 29, 2024, 08:24:18 PM
Raven-themed, eh? Sir Edgar Allan Poop?  lol

(joke, joke... it IS a very nice model)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dickiegranthum on January 29, 2024, 09:09:44 PM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 29, 2024, 06:19:08 PM
Nice and uncluttered as you say BP...but the resting position of that warpick / hammer seems oddly uncomfortable...would it not just slide down the shoulder pad (blades/ feathers?) till it rests on the coller?

What if he’s not resting it and is actually about to get his dinner on a spit - a lovely raven! Aha!
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on January 29, 2024, 09:21:56 PM
Someone pointed out that between this and the flesheaters, AoS is going in a profoundly dark souls direction.

I'd really love to add this guy into my stormcast force as a proxy for a knight questor, but lord knows where I'll get one.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on January 30, 2024, 08:23:14 AM
Quote from: Lost Egg on January 29, 2024, 08:23:46 PM
:D Now I have a vision of it stuck there and anytime the knight sees someone he grabs hold of the handle and tries to make it look natural :D

 lol lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: john Hollyoak on February 02, 2024, 11:29:38 PM
Had the most weird experience today. Clearing out some of mom's excess books I decided to donate them to the charity section at our local Morrisons (Bromsgrove). Whilst putting them on the shelves I saw an interesting cover which proved to be Horus Heresy Siege of Terra, Mortis by John French. Not particularly interested in 30k but this had to be worth a pound donation.
WRONG!! it's in German! How on earth has a German copy ended up there. Answers on a postcard please.
John
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 03, 2024, 04:31:05 AM
I'd bet money it was a mistake order from Amazon or something (or Amazon shipped the wrong thing, etc.) so they tossed it in the charity shop.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: westwaller on February 03, 2024, 10:37:54 AM
Yes... I once wash sent a Polish (I think) language version of a Batman graphic novel by an online book seller.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 03, 2024, 06:44:56 PM
Amusingly I once tried ordering a 2nd edition Sisters of Battle Codex twice via Amazon.  Both times, they sent a 1990 Warhammer Fantasy Novel 'Plague Daemon' instead.

I assume this was an ISBN issue and they'd just been listing based off that.  The second time I was allowed to keep the novel and weirdly it was one of the best Warhammer novels I ever read.  Well before the "corporate" style books that followed.  It was an excellent stand alone grim fantasy novel.  Good stuff.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on February 03, 2024, 10:01:31 PM
Quote from: Elbows on February 03, 2024, 06:44:56 PM
Amusingly I once tried ordering a 2nd edition Sisters of Battle Codex twice via Amazon.  Both times, they sent a 1990 Warhammer Fantasy Novel 'Plague Daemon' instead.

I assume this was an ISBN issue and they'd just been listing based off that.  The second time I was allowed to keep the novel and weirdly it was one of the best Warhammer novels I ever read.  Well before the "corporate" style books that followed.  It was an excellent stand alone grim fantasy novel.  Good stuff.

I seem to recall this being a fairly widespread issue - I've had friends have the exact same thing happen to them. My theory is that Amazon probably just had a listing for "Warhammer book" and no specifics so everyone got plague garden overstock.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on February 04, 2024, 12:14:01 AM
Not sure, really.  The original Plague Daemon book was from 1990.  I found the Sisters of Battle Codex (2nd Edition) on Amazon in 2015 or so...so I figured it had to be too good to be true.  I actually wonder if it was just a re-used ISBN (if there is such a thing).

It's ISBN 10 is 1872372058, it's ISBN 13 is 9781872372051.

The Sister's Codex ISBN 10 is 1872372147....so close, but no cigar. :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 04, 2024, 07:28:05 AM
I was once sent a polish version of the boardgame descent from Book Depository in the UK. They then sent me the correct English version so now I have twice the minis for it. I think I've played it once, lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Vanvlak on February 04, 2024, 08:42:53 AM
I have a copy of the Khorne army list in German, but that's because I was daft and ordered the wrong version... ;D
Some years back however, my wife bought me a Forgeworld kit, and it never appeared; she contacted FW who replaced it. Some months later the original appeared, and we contacted FW to pay or send it back - but they were nice enough to tell us to keep it. As they were so nice, my wife later made another order, and the same happened again! It was not easy to tell them what happened the same time, but they once again insisted we keep it. Third time - and later - delivery was normal. But I was impressed by their quick and prompt and even generous response.  8)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on February 04, 2024, 03:30:04 PM
Probably a hold over from when there were still Mail Order Trolls :)

I've ordered many times from them back in the day, often with very particular asks, and they always came through. I remember wanting a certain type of Fantasy bannerpole, but they came in assortments. I wanted 10 I think, but they ended up sending me like 30 bannerpoles. 10 of them were the ones I wanted, and the rest were assorted other ones. I think they just kept grabbing form the tray until they had 10 of the ones I requested, not bothering to throw the rest back.

We also once had a group buy that, when it arrived, contained several parts which we never ordered, and was missing several minor other bits. So we called and explained and they had no problem shipping out the order again. Which then arrived with the exact same contents, including the parts we never ordered.

Which is why, nigh twenty years after the fact, I still have two Bloodthirster Left Wings in my Lead Mountain lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 04, 2024, 03:46:08 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on February 04, 2024, 03:30:04 PM
Which is why, nigh twenty years after the fact, I still have two Bloodthirster Left Wings in my Lead Mountain lol

 lol
This just gave me a laugh and a wave of nostalgia for their bitz service. Got so many useful Necromunda weapon sprues through that.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Flinty on February 04, 2024, 08:14:40 PM
I have  an itching to re-do Mordhiem in a very GrimDark style, and was so taken with Radaku's Court and the Bonerattle skeletons that I actually bought e-bay'd some.

You can imagine my interest was piqued when the Old Worlds was resurrected. However, I was less pleased to see the old sprues - looking at you, Flagellants - reappear. The old-style Tomb Kings (that cavalry!) are definitely not my cup of tea.

I know it's a separate system, but these are vastly different from their rather impressive sculpts/style in amongst the AoS range.
I was surprised to see the Bretonnian Battle Pilgrims are a) rather nice and b) metal - but not that they are already out of stock...

Rambling. Sorry.

I did see they would release figures for the 'core' factions, and I assume the Empire is one of these.

Although I think I know the answer, anyone heard/fancy a guess if they will release new units, or are they just going to re-run the old sprues and have a sprinkling of new characters?


Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on February 04, 2024, 09:01:57 PM
Quote from: Flinty on February 04, 2024, 08:14:40 PM
I was less pleased to see the old sprues - looking at you, Flagellants - reappear.
SNIP
Although I think I know the answer, anyone heard/fancy a guess if they will release new units, or are they just going to re-run the old sprues and have a sprinkling of new characters?

The remarkable thing about the Flagellants is that they've never gone away. They must be one of the oldest kits on the GW website that have been constantly on sale since their creation. Truly ahead of its time, that sprue - it stands up really well even today.

In answer to your question, some new units have been promised, but I suspect they're most likely to be "flavour" units, e.g. an elite unit here and there, or a previously under-explored faction appearing as an allies-only contingent (similar to guilds in Necromunda - Kislev will be one of these I suspect). The bulk-of-the-ranks type units will I would guess be rereleases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Red Kop on February 04, 2024, 09:19:51 PM
Whilst Bretonnia got a new unit of knights on foot and the Tomb Kings got the new bone dragon, for most armies it all looks to be 98% old sculpts being released with a few new characters released in Forge World resin.

I'm an Orc and Goblin player and they are the next army shown to be released.

I had heard rumours a while back that a new boar chariot and a wyvern model with the option of a warboss or shaman mounted on it were in the works but all official material shows the old chariot and warboss on wyvern from 6th edition and they have said that the wyvern with shaman from 1993 is going to be available on a made to order basis but unfortunately for the O&G there is nothing brand new unit wise except for two characters - an Orc shaman and a Black Orc Warboss - everything else is old models coming back from back in the day.

A lot of the old stuff is going to be re-released in metal so it will certaintly feel like you are playing Warhammer back in the 90s/early 2000s if nothing else...  :)

I am assuming that most of the armies will be the same - which is okay in some ways to allow people to complete their old school collections but yes, some of the old models are certainly showing their age... I'm not against it personally but I've seen that this is a big issue for a lot of people looking at the game.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on February 20, 2024, 09:00:47 AM
I know we're nowhere near April Fool's Day, so presumably this is actually a thing ??? o_o ???

PowerWash Simulator Teams Up With Warhammer 40,000 for a Special DLC Pack (https://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/powerwash-simulator-teams-up-with-warhammer-40000-for-a-special-dlc-pack/)

Quote
The Warhammer 40,000 Special Pack introduces players to a new dimension of gameplay within the PowerWash Simulator environment. Tasked with cleaning Imperial vehicles and machinery, players will dive into the rich lore of the Warhammer 40,000 universe, engaging with well-known machines and vehicles such as the Ultramarines Land Raider and the Blood Angels Thunderhawk, among others.

(https://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/image_3840x2160806-scaled.jpg)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on February 20, 2024, 09:16:25 AM
Powerwash simulator? lol lol

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel these days, aren't they? I usually postpone those chores till I really can't anymore (read: my wife orders me to go do them, but here they are offering a game that makes you clean stuff FOR FUN!

I'm sure it takes all sorts, but this is really daft to my eyes... ::)

However; when this turns out to be an actual thing, I do hope they will add the annointing rituals after the cleaning, or those Space Marine vehicles will never win another battle!

And now I'm curious if they will also include factions such as Orks or Nurgle... lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on February 20, 2024, 10:53:31 AM
Surely the only way to clean anything Nurgle would be to burn it :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on February 20, 2024, 11:07:41 AM
Oh yeah; a Kärcher won't cut that.

Cleanse it with fire!!  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on February 20, 2024, 05:55:45 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on February 20, 2024, 09:16:25 AM
Powerwash simulator? lol lol

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel these days, aren't they? I usually postpone those chores till I really can't anymore (read: my wife orders me to go do them, but here they are offering a game that makes you clean stuff FOR FUN!

I'm sure it takes all sorts, but this is really daft to my eyes... ::)

However; when this turns out to be an actual thing, I do hope they will add the annointing rituals after the cleaning, or those Space Marine vehicles will never win another battle!

And now I'm curious if they will also include factions such as Orks or Nurgle... lol

This and viscera clean up simulator were insanely popular - powerwash simulator is still massive with streamers since it's an easy game to chat over.
I imagine someone at GW realised that it's a great way to introduce the IP to a new audience of young folks
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on February 21, 2024, 03:41:45 AM
 lol
Not for me thanks.
I got lawnmower simulater free in a humble bundle package and can't bring myself to install it on the computer. I really don't see the appeal to those sorts of games (Train simulator just makes me wonder what is the point to it, can't even turn left or right!)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on February 21, 2024, 07:06:51 AM
Quote from: beefcake on February 21, 2024, 03:41:45 AM
lol
Not for me thanks.
I got lawnmower simulater free in a humble bundle package and can't bring myself to install it on the computer. I really don't see the appeal to those sorts of games (Train simulator just makes me wonder what is the point to it, can't even turn left or right!)

I don't even get the appeal of video games in general, but I know my friends absolutely go nuts for stuff like powerwash simulator, so someone at GW has clearly run the numbers and decided this is worth the effort.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on February 21, 2024, 07:40:07 AM
They run a live action version of this game at my local carwash. 'Course it's more 2005 VW Golfs than Land Raiders, but still, it's free to watch and if you're lucky you can play it yourself for a 12hr shift and they only charge you £5 an hour.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 04, 2024, 10:20:57 AM
Anyone seen the new Gnome team for Bloodbowl?

Gnomes are not exactly Bloodbowl material I'd say, but GW went ahead and made these anyway. They'll probably have some interesting special rules to make them viable. Oh; and they can field Treemen!

I have several Bloodbowl teams already, but they're all 3rd edition, and this is the version we tend to play locally. But this team is just so interesting to me, I might well pick them up just to paint them.

I have no idea why, but I feel like I must have them. I mean; they have a badger!

At the very least, some of the minis can do (double?) duty in my (concept) Doggerland Dutch force ::)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHqDwTCWkAALTtP.jpg:large)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on March 04, 2024, 02:55:58 PM
I like the Gnomes, even though I do not play Blood Bowl. It would be nice to see Gnomes in the re-release of the Old World.

Speaking of the Old World…

Burgschneider, a German larp and re-enactment costuming company has released a trailer for their upcoming clothing line done in partnership with GW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5hY33IirG8&t=165s

I have some Burgschneider stuff, decent quality and price for off the shelf costume pieces.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: YPU on March 04, 2024, 03:11:55 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on March 04, 2024, 10:20:57 AM

At the very least, some of the minis can do (double?) duty in my (concept) Doggerland Dutch force ::)


Would make Rien Poortvliet proud.

This is absolutely left field (or is that end zone in blood bowl?) but I am delighted to see it in a way that I haven't really felt for GW released in a long time.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 04, 2024, 03:43:44 PM
The foxes are my favourite part of this team. And there is something about that badger that makes me think of the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog in Monty Python and the Holy Grail It just looks like it might be more vicious than it has any right to be.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: sonicReducer on March 04, 2024, 06:16:50 PM
The gnomes are fun. There are other teensy teams like snotlings so they aren't a complete new idea. Great sculpts
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 04, 2024, 06:31:18 PM
Quote from: YPU on March 04, 2024, 03:11:55 PM
Would make Rien Poortvliet proud.
Exacly that!

But given the nature of the game, I'd go for Rien Moordvliet in this case  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: 3Fingers2 on March 04, 2024, 06:48:22 PM
Not into gnomes or Bloodbowl but FairPlay to them for bringing out a different race 👍
I did see pics of new kroot cavalry other day some sort of reptile steed ? If I remember rightly .
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Gibby on March 04, 2024, 06:59:00 PM
Quote from: Daeothar on March 04, 2024, 10:20:57 AM
Anyone seen the new Gnome team for Bloodbowl?

Gnomes are not exactly Bloodbowl material I'd say, but GW went ahead and made these anyway. They'll probably have some interesting special rules to make them viable. Oh; and they can field Treemen!

I have several Bloodbowl teams already, but they're all 3rd edition, and this is the version we tend to play locally. But this team is just so interesting to me, I might well pick them up just to paint them.

I have no idea why, but I feel like I must have them. I mean; they have a badger!

At the very least, some of the minis can do (double?) duty in my (concept) Doggerland Dutch force ::)


Love them! I'll be getting them (I've collected nearly all the Blood Bowl teams anyway). I reckon they'll be like the Halflings and Goblins; bottom tier team but absolutely hilarious fun to play.

As an aside, I was skeptical about Blood Bowl 2020's rules, but it's absolutely awesome. The main change is just the addition of a Pass stat for players as far as I can tell, which just helps with some diversity of rosters and skill combos (you can have a very agile player who still sucks at passing, or vise versa). There are some other changes but none that I disliked and all of them keep the game super fun. Perhaps your local mates could be persuaded to try it so you can field the gnomes for the odd exhibition match.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on March 11, 2024, 04:08:55 PM
I bought the 40k powerwash addon  lol For my kids really but...it's uh... it's quite relaxing and satisfying. Also has the weird bonus that lots of little parts on the models are named which I'd otherwise probably never know the name of.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Belligerentparrot on March 11, 2024, 09:00:49 PM
This is quite clever I think: GW bringing back at least one Ratskin in Necromunda without actually bringing back Ratskins (which is good, the old concept needed a serious rethink in my opinion).

Also, it is a great sculpt. Not keen on the rat itself, but the Beastmaster is excellent: some really nice details but not overly cluttered.

(https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/RMpeB2rNR8fCdO7s.jpg)

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on March 12, 2024, 12:42:43 PM
Looks like it's time for ages of sigmar 4th edition, as a pre adepticon teaser tends to mean a new rules update.

I've got to say I'm quite excited if the rumours of updated 1st edition stormcasts are true, as the current minis are far far nicer than those 1st wave of aos releases.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on March 16, 2024, 10:52:36 AM
New Kroot up for pre-order- https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/tau-empire-army-set-english-2024

I like the look of the figures, but don't need/want the book or cards. Hopefully they'll sell them separately at some point, as £135 is more than I'm willing to spend.

Quote
This massive box includes a whopping 26 miniatures

Not sure 26 figures == massive, but I'm not in marketing ;D

(https://www.warhammer.com/app/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60010113001_ENGKrootHuntingPack2.jpg?fm=webp&w=920&h=948)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on March 16, 2024, 12:01:19 PM
26 miniatures is definitely "early 2000s battle force" territory. I think you'd need several times that many kroot to even stand a chance at calling it an army in current 40k.

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Cubs on March 16, 2024, 12:12:25 PM
Having been very much out of the loop for a few decades, I am wondering what first convinced the Kroot that an enormous quasi-bipedal creature that presumably moves by bounding and changes from 4 to 2 limbs like a giant gorilla, was a suitable beast for a stable firing platform. Maybe they like to combine military ops with a fun rodeo?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on March 16, 2024, 05:41:47 PM
All fauna on the planet peck (pech?) is some form of mroot evolution, so i imagine it was more a case of "this one can still understand basic commands and hasn't tried to eat me".
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on March 16, 2024, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: zemjw on March 16, 2024, 10:52:36 AM
Not sure 26 figures == massive, but I'm not in marketing ;D

Ah, but it very clearly states that it's the box which is massive.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 18, 2024, 10:54:25 AM
Yup; the 26 miniatures are whopping instead...  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 19, 2024, 06:56:12 AM
I wonder, in the early 90's, how many snotlings came in a single blister.
Pretty sure you could get a whole bloodbowl team in a blister for first edition.
Probably wasn't considered whopping back then, lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 19, 2024, 11:59:14 PM
How about getting three Rhinos to a box, for like $15?  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Daeothar on March 20, 2024, 07:23:38 AM
Quote from: Elbows on March 19, 2024, 11:59:14 PM
How about getting a whopping three Rhinos to a box, for like $15?  lol

Fixed that for ya  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 20, 2024, 04:23:59 PM
"How about getting a whopping THREE Rhinos in a massive box for JUST $15!"

Even better, yes?
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Storm Wolf on March 20, 2024, 05:14:06 PM
Quote from: Elbows on March 20, 2024, 04:23:59 PM
"How about getting a whopping THREE Rhinos in a massive box for JUST $15!"

Even better, yes?

Indeed or 30 space marines for £9.99 or
14 Terminators or all of the Harlequins or a Mole mortar, Tarantula, Thudd gun and a Landspeeder for about £15 I think  :o lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: beefcake on March 21, 2024, 07:31:35 AM
Is it sad to think if I had a time machine I'd spend my turn going back and buying cheap GW stuff, lol.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Tactalvanic on March 21, 2024, 08:11:45 AM
nah not at all, but I would probably go back and buy cheap apple shares for me and come back to the future and buy expensive OOP minis from you  :D
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Constable Bertrand on March 21, 2024, 09:26:43 AM
OOh Marauder Giant is coming up on a limited basis. How many dollarydoos is that going to cost in metal?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/20/old-world-almanack-orc-and-goblin-classics-return-to-made-to-order/ (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/20/old-world-almanack-orc-and-goblin-classics-return-to-made-to-order/)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on March 21, 2024, 12:10:06 PM
Swanky new trailer for age of sigmar 4th edition.

I held off buying any books about half way through 3rd because I know GW now operate on a 3 year edition cycle, so buying into the game after 1.5 years seems like buying into the tail end of something. I do wonder if I'm alone in this, as I can't be the only one to look at a book released in month 34 of an edition and think  "hmmm...I'll leave it."
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: boneio on March 21, 2024, 12:36:39 PM
No, I don't think that's just you - most of the engaged players skip books as well unless they're going to use them *a lot*. And certainly there's no point buying the "end of edition" narrative books apart from as a collector.

Even within an edition there have been army books released within literally months of the previous version, so I pretty much don't bother and just use online sources. I've no idea if the trend is strong enough to impact GW's book sales in any noticeable sense. I hope it becomes that way, so that they do what everyone else does and release the rules for free via PDFs and keep updating them that way.

It's a little different with the niche games like Warcry and Underworlds. Those are self-contained so it's easy to just buy the books/cards and then not bother chasing the new edition.
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Elbows on March 21, 2024, 05:08:30 PM
Reminds me of one of the local gaming stores which opened up several years ago.  The owner asked me to come in and explain 40K (8th edition, back when I tried playing it again).  I went in, played a few demo games with him and his staff.

He decided to buy in, and became a massive GW retailer locally (eventually).

However...two months after getting started, I visited the store and he excitedly told me about a store going out of business and he'd bought up their stock of books.  He excitedly showed me an entire bookshelf of...7th edition books.

I had to painfully explain to him that he had purchased a bunch of paperweights.  I told him to drop the price to $5-10 and sell them to excited kids who just wanted a cool 40K book to look at.  He was suitably nonplussed.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: zemjw on April 01, 2024, 04:15:46 PM
No spaghetti tree, but amusing nevertheless  :) https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/01/thank-bribe-your-loved-ones-with-our-shiny-bright-new-warpstone-jewellery-range/

Spaghetti tree, for anyone wondering if I've completely lost it  ;D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8scpGwbvxvI&pp=ygUSc3BhZ2hldHRpIHRyZWUgYmJj

Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dickiegranthum on April 07, 2024, 06:15:42 AM
I broke down today…

I pre-ordered (at 15% off), from my favourite Quebec hobby shop (they almost always have the Anglais versions, but sell out of the français ones! lol ) the

Bloodbowl Gnomes! with the pitch, dice, treeman, cards - everything except the Forgeworld Rodney figure. I’ll grab him later.

I feel vaguely ashamed - I usually hate GW (who doesn’t?) - but these garden gnomes got me.

They … got … me …
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: Lost Egg on April 07, 2024, 07:25:44 AM
They're Gnomes so I think we can let you off this once  ;)
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: FramFramson on April 07, 2024, 10:06:00 PM
My lips are sealed; there'll be gnome entioning it.  lol
Title: Re: The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread
Post by: dickiegranthum on April 08, 2024, 02:26:26 AM
Quote from: FramFramson on April 07, 2024, 10:06:00 PM
My lips are sealed; there'll be gnome entioning it.  lol

😂

Too funny! No regret today. They growing like the garden gnomes they are.