Just had a cogitate on Skellies...

[Mammoth miniatures]

A zombie is also mindless, driven either by base instinct or the instructions of it's necromantic overlord. I like to imagine that the biggest distinction is that a zombie will simply wear itself out until.ot falls apart into a pile of still undead but utterly useless rotten parts, where a skeleton is functionally immortal.

Remember kids - use your zombies sparingly on a hot summer's day. Those things have a best before date!

[anevilgiraffe]

wouldn't zombies require less effort? you just give them a spark and off they go, nothing needed to keep bits together, they have sinews and tendons so joints work with little effort, the brain may be mostly workable, so just wind them up and off they go...

skellies, you need to bind the bones together in a particular way, replace those sinews with magic, replace the eyes and ears with magic senses, and give them a magic brain to function.

[Mammoth miniatures]

wouldn't zombies require less effort? you just give them a spark and off they go, nothing needed to keep bits together, they have sinews and tendons so joints work with little effort, the brain may be mostly workable, so just wind them up and off they go...

skellies, you need to bind the bones together in a particular way, replace those sinews with magic, replace the eyes and ears with magic senses, and give them a magic brain to function.

I guess it's a "you get what you pay for" kind of deal. You can animate a corpse and set it off to go cause mischief but it'll still rot and fall apart unless you go through the rigmarole of embalming/preserving it somehow, in which case you may as well spend the time making a skeleton warrior that isn't going to get spend all day moaning and stinking only to get it's brain bashed out by some chump with a stick.

The skeleton is the classic choice of the discerning necromancer - it's a sign of quality, of pride in his work, and respect for both his craft and his enemies.
Sure all the cool hip young sorcerers are summoning zombies to impress their lady ghouls - and it looks like fun for a while , until you've got to clean the carpet because one of them slopped it's guts out and you've got a dozen complaints of public indecency because their trousers keep falling down over their withered legs.

Maybe now ol' sally snake hair or Debby dragon face is impressed by your zombie Beatles reunion, but in the long run that bad boy charm is going to run short and the ol'' classic skeleton army will always be in fashion.

[ithoriel]

to impress their lady ghouls

Do you mean their ghoulfriends? 

[beefcake]

This conversation is becoming too academic for me 

[Mammoth miniatures]

This conversion is becoming too academic for me 

Indeed - everyone knows skeletons should play the xylophone.

[Patrice]

zombies are mindless creatures driven by very basic instintcs, skeleton warriors keep most of their military skills.

Is that true?  Both obey the necromancer's basic orders. Skeleton warriors are best fighters indeed, and seem brighter, I mean more reactive. I suppose it's the stiffness and weight of all the dead flesh that prevents zombies to be swift; if you only have magically animated bones you can react, run, and fight, more easily.

This conversation is becoming too academic

Perhaps you are right, raising futile scientific debates about serious magical issues sounds somewhat complotist. 

[Freddy]

Is that true?  Both obey the necromancer's basic orders. Skeleton warriors are best fighters indeed, and seem brighter, I mean more reactive. I suppose it's the stiffness and weight of all the dead flesh that prevents zombies to be swift; if you only have magically animated bones you can react, run, and fight, more easily.

Depends on how you picture them of course- I take zombies as the classic zombie movie zombies, no matter who they were in their life, they are just mindless animals going for the meat, what a necromancer does is to herd them with simple control tricks so that they are distracted until the time comes to release their hunger. The skeletons, on the other hand, are soldiers: the echoes/shadows of the soldiers they were in their life both on physical and on metaphysical level.

Perhaps you are right, raising futile scientific debates about serious magical issues sounds somewhat complotist. 

Good thing about this forum is that out of 8 billions of people the two dozen who are interested in such a debate are here

[dadlamassu]

For our fantasy worlds of Morval Earth and Morvalayn we put in quite a lof thought into Undead and Risen Dead

Undead
Live creatures can be made to suffer undeath by magical means (Spell, Elixir or Nehruth cursed weapon.) When this occurs, most of the organs of the body cease functioning, actions and thoughts being now powered by the kah (soul) which draws its power from the ambient magic of Morval Earth. The magical organ of the kah lies within the body from the brain down the spinal cord. Normally, short of extra Magh Pozum (Maghi are minor deities) being provided, there is a period of inertia between normal life and active undeath. It is thought that as the original body of the creature decomposes, the kah moves down to a more central position in the remaining form. The sight and hearing of the kah no longer depend on the natural eyes and ears. Some claim the undead have unlight or dark sight. Certainly they see much better in the dark than in the light and become blind in sunlight. They have a greater fear of fire than living creatures. Undead cannot be stunned or drowned since they are not dependent on normal organs. Kah hearing is poorer than in life and speech becomes distorted.  Decomposition of undead bodies is slower than normal but does take place over time and is accompanied by the stench of rotting flesh. A physical blow penetrating the kah can destroy Undead. Obviously the loss of arms or legs will reduce the ability of the creature, for movement and fighting. Magical abilities tend not to be impaired by undeath. Mental processes are mostly relieved of physical desires and often become dependent on the source of magic causing the undeath. Unlike Risen Dead the Undead cannot run (double move rate.)

Decomposition leads to the undead being given four classifications: 
•   Primal Undead (Unnatural ones)  These appear as paler versions of themselves in life. Movement and fighting abilities remain similar.  They are often mistaken for live beings but are cold to the touch. They prefer the dark!
•   Secondary Undead (Cadavers, Zombies) In these, decomposition of flesh and clothing are prominent and they smell of decay. Called cadavers their movements are now slower. Their appearance is unnerving to most people. They maintain their energy by feasting upon victims Sunlight has a Terror Infliction (TI) of 5 against them. 
•   Tertiary Undead (Skeletons)  Now the original body has been reduced by decomposition to bone skeleton form. Movement remains slow in most cases. Sunlight renders them inert.
•   Phantasmal Undead (Spectres) For these the bones have dropped away and only the kah remains wrapped in a diaphanous form, normally resembling the creature’s appearance in life. Sunlight drives them through the flaches to the Mondo Vivache or spirit world.

The Risen Dead superficially are identical to the undead and can be classified in the same way except that there are no Phantasmal Risen Dead. The difference is that they are creatures that have died and been raised back to a magical form of un-life. Risen Dead have no magic powers. Their kah needs a source of energy more than that ambient in Morval Earth.
•   Primal Risen Dead; In the Primal State the body is still capable of drinking and eating the energy can be obtained from the fresh blood (Vampires) of living creatures. Primal Risen Dead also soon develop the ghouls’ grip ability. Studies indicate that the energy provided is commensurate with the level of intelligence of the creature the blood was taken from.
•   Secondary Risen dead lose the ability to drink and become wholly reliant on, ghouls grip or energy provided by magic spells. In these, decomposition of flesh and clothing are prominent and they smell of decay.  Risen dead have only fatigue two points as tired and two as inert.
•   Tertiary Risen Dead (Skeletons)  have been reduced by decomposition to skeletal form.  They move slowly in most cases and are entirely dependent on magic spells for their existence.

Ghoul's Grip is where a risen dead creature drains energy from a living creature by touch. Such a drain can be fatal for the victim if maintained too long.
Some Morval Earth plants are poisonous to the Risen Dead energy producing system. These include most timbers, especially mistletoe and garlic! There is also an Energise Risen Dead spell.
Risen Dead Vampires Wooden weapons add +3 to their strikes, Mistletoe +4, against R.D. Vampires.
Primary Risen Dead can replace energy by Ghouls grip, eating brains or drinking blood. Living creatures can provide 2 draughts of blood per cubit size for a vampire. (Normal person = 8 this represents half the blood present in the body.) A vampire can drink two draughts per move. Two draughts from a rational being or six from a beast can provide one Fatigue point's worth of energy.
Victims become Wounded after losing a quarter of their draughts of blood, Dazed after losing half their draughts of blood, Fainted after three quarters and are Dead after losing all.

Fighting Undead Zombies (Secondary Undead) - hand weapons and polearms are most effective against UD Zombies adding +2 to their melee bonus and strike value.  When an UD Zombie defeats an opponent it will attempt to consume part of the victim.  A zombie can consume one portion per move. Living creatures can provide 2 portions per cubit size for a zombie. (Normal person =4 cubits). Two portions from a rational being or six from a beast can provide one Fatigue point’s worth of energy.
Victims become Wounded after losing a portion, Crippled after losing two and are Dead after losing three.

Ghouls: Ghouls are degenerate creatures that lie somewhere between natural and undead states. It is said that they appeared after the great plagues that ravaged Morval Earth when they survived by consuming the tainted flesh of the dead in order to survive.  The combination of depravity and contamination turned them away any form of religion and so they have been abandoned by the Maghi.  It also warped their physical appearance, disturbed their mental capacity and created a form of existence that is as much undead as it is alive. They exist to feed and though they can use the Ghoul’s Grip for sustenance they prefer to consume the flesh of the recently dead. Though physically strong they are cowardly and when they are driven to attack they do so from ambush and in superior numbers.  Ghouls usually dwell in small family groups near cemeteries or a necropolis where they can dig up freshly buries corpses.  It is also not unusual for ghouls to follow armies on the march seeking a ready source of food.

Ghouls Grip: Risen Dead can gain energy by draining it from living creatures by use of this means. 
Ghouls dice as in melee against their victims, often achieving a +4 full surprise bonus in the first round. For each value of wounding or worse the ghoul takes two fatigue points from the victim.
Risen dead have only two fatigue points as tired and two as inert (Collapsed).  A clove of garlic bars ghouls grip within 1" of it. A touch of garlic will drain 1 fatigue point from Ghoul per clove.

[Harry Faversham]

How would a Skelly army stand against an army of K9s, they'd be run off wiv, and reburied!!!
 

[dwbullock]

Perhaps you are right, raising futile scientific debates about serious magical issues sounds somewhat complotist. 

Ultimately, when the zombies fall apart, the conversation would then turn to compost-ist.

[ithoriel]

Coming next: Angels per pinhead
 
The answer to any question in fantasy that amounts to "how does that happen?" is "A wizard did it!"

[Condottiere]

I always assumed it was the warping influence of Necromantic magic that did that bit.

Like Skeleton Warriors...

[dadlamassu]

How would a Skelly army stand against an army of K9s, they'd be run off wiv, and reburied!!!
 

Often also wondered what Skellidoggies run off with, crunch and bury.