Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: Rich J on May 30, 2012, 11:13:14 AM
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For those who find it hard to get on the official forum or like a mail list better -
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/MusketsandTomahawks/
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Signed up today mate. Ill try and post my reserach as i get on my FIW project.
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I joined Yahoo groups a while back, but for some reason never seemed to be able to get on properly with it.
Could one of you send me an idiot's guide and I'll join up. :D
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I joined Yahoo groups a while back, but for some reason never seemed to be able to get on properly with it.
Could one of you send me an idiot's guide and I'll join up. :D
I have the same problem - its a right royal pain ..
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They have made changes lately that make it easier. Go to the group via the link. Press join group. You then have to make a profile or pick one you already have. Mostly this is just your email address.
Fill in the spam bot trap - by entering the letters and numbers that are in the fuzzy box and then press join. I will then accept the request (fairly quickly unless it is night time here) and there you have it.
It lets you customise your settings but don't worry The default is to get all group mail and I can't see there being a real lot.
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Joined :)
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You and 45 other people :)
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I joined a couple of days ago ,had aquick look downloaded a couple of scenarios ,went back today and im no longer a member ? :-[
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Same story for a longer time and , being a french player, having helped for some questions...
I'm out? ???
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I sent out a number of messages saying that only members with settings set to recieve email would be allowed to stay in. Feel free to rejoin and make sure your settings are at least 'daily digest'.
Didn't want a lot of dead wood just in for what they could nab.
:)
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didnt get the message just checked not even in the spam folder , and usually i put my settings to recieve email so sorry if i didn't this time . :'(
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You wouldn't have got it as you were set to no email.
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my mistake as i said normally set for emails as its the only way i know whats happening with work and family dont get time to check everyday.Rejoined and posted and had emails so hopefully ok now.Cheers
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"Didn't want a lot of dead wood just in for what they could nab."...
Dead wood! nab§
I understand how FIW started with your diplomatic ability.
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To be fair I didn't shoot and scalp anyone so must have better diplomatic skills than Washington.
:)
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Now before we start, do you need to declare a vested interest in this Rich? :)
Aren't you the guy who helped translate the book & did a pod-cast recently on Meebles extolling M&T's virtues?
I also saw a post where you took issue with someone who said M&T was "complicated". I understand where he is coming from.
Well, the book itself is hard going IMHO. I bought the rulebook after hearing the podcast when the three reviewers were saying how fabulous the game was. While i didn't "need" another set of rules for FIW (one of my favourite periods) i thought i'd give them a go as the sub-plots in particular sounded interesting. Also one of the guys i know plays them [although he concedes that TVG shades it for him]
I have just laboured through Movement, Shooting and Melee. It is turgid stuff and hardly bounces off the page. I must have spent 10 minutes reading Spotting [One page] and trying to work out what it is attempting to do
I'm sure it will all make sense once i've played a couple of times. First game on Thurs which i'm looking forward to
I'm keeping an open mind about M&T and will give them a fair crack as i enjoy skirmish games, particularly for this period which i think it lends itself to.
This post is not meant to be a test of your Diplomatic skills nor an attack on you/M&T. Just my assessment of the rules at first read and, as yet, unplayed.
I've also registered on the M&T Forum but thought i'd post here as this is neutral ground ;)
James
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Vested interest - not at all. I did NOT translate the rules (in fact no one did the French author rewrote them in English and Mike Hobbs help to edit the English). Yes I did just appear on the M&M podcast talking about the rules (I am usually a guest on there and have also done lots of casts with Neil about various rule sets over the past year or two) - you mean you are not an avid listener, shame on you :)
AND yes I really like the rules, that is not a vested interest, I should in fact be saying how better my Flying Lead rules are to cover the period so buy those instead and make your own stats up - or maybe write my own FWI suppplement - but I'm not because I don't do that AND I couldn't make them feel better than M&T for FIW - SO are you happy:
NO VESTED INTEREST TO DECLARE
The reason I don't use nick names on forums is so people know who it is :)
Now I must declare I have the diplomatic skills of a hungry lion in a baboon enclosure so one shouldn't really test it :)
Like I said in review on the Podcast after years of reviewing rules I found the core mechanics very simple indeed, nothing new, move, take inches off for terrain, roll to hit, roll to kill, melee roll to hit then roll to save etc etc. Even the reaction test for morale is straight forward. Although, mainly my comment was aimed at the fact the poster had whinged how complicated they were and then said they play Sharpe Practice. Now to me (I play SP a lot) this was daft, unless it was a veiled attempt to suggest SP was a lot better.
The bits in the rules that make them different to me, and why I like them so much, is the way the cards, objectives and side plots work. To me this gives them a lot more replayability and feel than a lot of other sets (like TVG that you have mentioned) outside of maybe the 2HW sets called Long Rifle and Muskets and Mowhawks.
To be honest though if you spent 10 minutes trying to figure out the spotting test maybe the rules are too complicated for you. I read it and thought it was too simple. A distance column things are seen at in various cover which moves to the columns right or left depending on the modifier - leaving a distance that units are spotted at!
Maybe you'll like it on Thursday, I hope so, if not then there are other sets out there, and it makes little difference to me which one you use unless of course you go out and get Flying Lead and then we can cobble some FIW rules together.
Rich
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I should have said "edit" not "translate", and i probably mixed you up with Mike
"The bits in the rules that make them different to me, and why I like them so much, is the way the cards, objectives and side plots work. To me this gives them a lot more replayability"
Which caught my attention and the reason i bought the the RB
"To be honest though if you spent 10 minutes trying to figure out the spotting test maybe the rules are too complicated for you."
Oh, you're probably right. The fact that it doesn't translate well is neither here nor there. That or i exagerrated to make a point, or was tired, or my son was watching the TV, or i'm a bit slow perhaps. Unlike you, clearly.
"Maybe you'll like it on Thursday, I hope so, if not then there are other sets out there, and it makes little difference to me which one you use ..."
I hope so too. As i said, i'll keep an open mind. But i won't lose sleep if i don't. I'll just sell them on
"Now I must declare I have the diplomatic skills of a hungry lion in a baboon enclosure so one shouldn't really test it"
I'll try to keep that i mind but can't promise ..
James Woodward [Oswald on M&T Forum]
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Probably is the wrong word - you definitely mixed me up with Mike (must be the welsh voice and Jones family name). Test away either here or on the Saga forum I don't mind, so long as no one expects me to be diplomatic then its fine :)
I spend too long in Aussie land to be diplomatic :)
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Well, as you asked ..
British Light Infantry - should they be, erm, Light Troops rather than just Scouts?
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It's important to look at the stats and not just the special rules/traits. If you compare the Light Infantry to the regular infantry they already differ a lot. They are irregular, they have more movement and a better base shooting stat (to allow them to shoot effectively without being in a line like benefits the regular troops with 'firing line'.
This makes them act more like light troops, the irregular cards split their 4 actions up to 4 cards over the turn (so they can flit about) rather than the 2 cards with 2 actions of the regulars. The extra 1" move increases the command radius by 2" in effect meaning they can operate more spread out (they can be up to the movement rate away from their unit leader figure). So already they act very different from the regulars before you add any of the options such as elite or sharp shooter. THEN they get the scout trait which means they movement over difficult ground is done at normal rate and they manage small linear obstacles without losing 2" of move, all which means again they act like lights :)
Hope that helps :)
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That is interesting and helpful - thank you.
I see that there are also slight differences with the CFdM and Coureurs des Bois. Very subtle although i confess that how that plays in practice eludes me for the moment. I'll have to dig some figures out and run through the rules before my game Thurs.
BTW - i have Foundry & Crusader Regulars. Both mix in very well with my GM Rangers, Huron, Settlers etc
James
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Q please ..
It says in the book that you can go back to a unit to complete its 2nd Action i.e. British Regulars. [Action Sequence p12] How do you keep track of having an outstanding action?
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To be honest this has only happened a few times in many many games. It's only regulars and provincials that will ever get the chance. Useful when you need to move a unit out the way to allow one behind to move and shoot leaving the first one to then shoot if the enemy is driven out of cover. Most of the time you'll be doing two actions, but it is useful sometimes. We either remember or in big games mark them with a spare officer figure.
Please ask anything before your game.
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Ok thanks
So what triggers that 2nd [reserved] action? Can you just call it in at any time?
Or do you need to wait until another Regulars etc card? If so, would that give you 3 x Actions (i suspect not)?
Cheers, James
PS All this talk of FIW, I've now dug out my pack of 8 x Foundry British Grenadiers to paint after having a short break from the period :)
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Not really a reserved action really which is why it is of limited use. If you don't use it that card you lose it. Remember unlike other card activation systems a regular card will trigger 2 actions for ALL your regular units.
However, you can put units on what is called vigilance which allows you to shoot after an opposing unit has completed an action. Handy for when you can't spot a unit but know its there. You wait til they shoot (usually allowing you to now spot them) and then return fire in their turn. In effect it is overwatch.
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So, having a solo practice 200pt game running through the rules with these
BRITISH
Officer/Trait [Ranger]
6 x Regulars
2 x 6 Rangers
FRENCH
Officer/Light Infantry
8 x CdB
6 x Huron
7 x Huron
I've divided forces into "thirds" to accomodate Reserves. I know that the rules state that you must take 10 figures as the same troop type as the Office but assume that this is relaxed for smaller games? The example AWI force [p44] suggests that thats the case
Right, i'm going in ...
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Hold your horses. :)
The officer rule is right but it is 'troop types' not types of troop as it were. So you need 10 regulars not 10 of the same actual troop. But if you both agree who cares.
Looking at your lists the Brits is wrong in a couple of ways. Your regulars need to be at least 8 figs (8-12) and most people take 10 to tick the officer box. Which means the rangers need tweaking. Maybe take 8 rangers in one unit and buy more regulars.
The French technically need more marines to get the officer. Cut down your Huron which can be 4-6 in a unit and give them the auxiliary trait so the benefit from your officer maybe.
Nothing to stop you saying 250 points.
:)
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Right you are. Back to Plan A as it were ..
BRITISH
Officer/Trait
10 x Regulars
9 x Rangers with "Marksmen"
FRENCH
Officer/Light Infantry
10 x CdB
2 x 5 Huron
Objectives - The French would be a Mixed Force while the Regulars could never get Slaughter [with the D6+1] as i understand it
It may be hard on the British if they have to have Reserves but them's the Breaks**. I could do an all Ranger force but i'm wanting to try out the different troop types. Same with the Indians - i'd like to see how they get on by not being able to use the French Officer for Moral tests etc
Thanks,
James
** just realised that if i do roll Defence/Protection and one of the British Units are in Reserve then you get 10%, here 20 pts of Civilians. So i get to start with another 10 of my Galloping Major Settlers :D
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On the force list page the unit has a size stat. Rangers are between 6-8 men. So you can't take 9.
Indians without an officer don't like being shot at, keep them in area cover to get their +1 on reactions
The regulars will often end up with civilians. Don't forget to put the civilian cards in the deck.
Have fun.
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Good spot on the Rangers. cheers
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Just writing a battle rep/ how to play article for WI using Rangers so it was on my mind.
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would M&T be easily convertible for use as an ECW skirmish game? :)
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How is the AWI covered in M&T?
I've been wanting to do AWI for a long time but don't have money nor time for any bigger battles.
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There are lists and traits in the boom for AwI and FIW and the Indian uprisings. We play AWI with it often.
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Great news!
...well, not for my wallet.
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and a seperate list for the Hessians too
Q - Event cards in 200pt games ...
Ignoring the Options [End of Turn etc**], do you use all three in the deck?
** Planning looks interesting though
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You have to put all three in because an event only happens if card 1 is drawn first. Ie if 2 or 3 come up first nothing happens. Also some events 'continue' until the next card etc.
Rich
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You have to put all three in because an event only happens if card 1 is drawn first. Ie if 2 or 3 come up first nothing happens. Also some events 'continue' until the next card etc.
Rich
Must have missed that - thanks
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Shame you don't live near London then I could run you through a game.
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Shame you don't live near London then I could run you through a game.
M1 Service Station between London and Derby? :)
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would M&T be easily convertible for use as an ECW skirmish game? :)
ahem ;)
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ahem ;)
I'm not sure how you would deal with the Pike. As i'm still working my way into M&T i'll step aside on this ..
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I haven't even read the rules but can't you just ignore the pike? Not really a skirmish weapon I guess...
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The mechanics would work. But the flavour comes from the objectives, traits and side plots which are all very heavily themed for the genre. It would be a lot of work to make them work as well as they do.
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cheers :)
I'll more than likely get it anyway. (I will need some old school looking Indians though)
Tell the author to make another version/upgrade/codex, ECW to the Three Musketeers :-*
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Have tidied my lists for this evening. Both are just > of 200pts
BRITISH
Officer/Tactition [Natural Talent for Regular Officer]
11 x Regulars
8 x Rangers with "Marksmen"
FRENCH
Indian Chief
6 x CdB
3 x 6 Huron
Looking forward to it
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Hope you have fun. If you have any rules questions just ask.
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Hope you have fun. If you have any rules questions just ask.
Thanks. I've been through the rules a couple of times and i think i have a reasonable grasp of them now - we shall see :D
It'll be interesting to see how the flexibility of the Indians/CdB fare against the firepower of the Regulars and Rangers [marksmen]
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Make sure they stay in area cover esP the Indians who then count as being in dense cover.
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We had a really good first game. Hopefully a couple of photos may appear on here soon.
I acted as GM as i was the only person who had read the rules :)
The first building was placed dead centre after the roll and another within 8". British rolled Engagement [must destroy two-thirds of the French force]; the Indians a Scouting Objective [ explore all four quarters of the board then retire with at least a third of the starting figures]
For the sub-plots, the British Officer rolled "Boldness" [had to be within 12" of the Indians and LOS by 4 x Actions]. The Indians had got their hands on a secret document and had to Decipher it
The game played really smoothly and we had no real issues. It worked, it made sense and more to the point it was fun.
The Brits had their work cut out achieving their sub-plot as the forces started on opposite table ends
The canny Indian player [no rookie to gaming, just these rules] never strayed too far out of cover and never gave the Regulars the opportunity to fire at them using Firing Line. The Rangers & CdB seemed happy to take pot shots at each other; meanwhile the Indians weant about stealthily achieving its main objective. The Indian Chief also worked out the secret message.
The Regulars eventally tired of trying to lure the Huron into a trap and decided to start setting about them by Melee. This was surprisingly effective, due to weight of numbers.
My this time both sides were in poor shape. The Rangers had routed; a combination of attritional shooting by the CdB and then being butchered in combat. The Regulars avenged them though lkilling the Chief in the process.
Both Morale cards were added to the deck!
The Regulars were down to 4 figs plus the Officer but they only had to kill a couple of Huron to achive their Objection [the CdB were long gone.
The British got themselves into a position that they could volley fire .. but ...but ... the card just wouldn't come for them.
The Indians managed to escape past them & in doing so achieved their Objective and the sub-plot. A Major Victory for the French; the British achieving neither objective nor sub-plot. Not a moment too soon either; the next card was the French Morale. We had to try it; both Indian units would have failed on the dice roll. That would have given the French a Minor Victory; neither side would have obtained their Objective but the Indians would have achieved their sub-plot
After the gunsmoke had cleared i thought about a couple of things.
I had forgotten about Vigilance [overwatch]. The British may have gotten that shot off after all..
Also Natives treat Light Terrain as Dense terrain [you did say earlier too]
We're playing an AWI 400pt game next.
First impressions, I think these are a keeper .. :D
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Glad you enjoyed it. Sounds like a fun game was had by all.
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Thinking about it, if the Indians had failed their Morale it would have been a Draw
British would have obtained their Objective but the Frnch achieved their sub-plot ..
All good fun. Painting Foundry British Grenadiers at the moment
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That's the thing I love about the game. Just when you think it went well the side it bites you in the rear.
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It was interesting how the British player changed his tactics - it almost got him the win.
I give a quick resume of the basic/special rules at the start & off we went. Neither player had looked at the rules before
I'm now kicking myself for not buying any of the Conquest Longhouses and canoes from Northstar when i had the opportunity [sniff!]
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400pt list for our next game
AWI BRITISH
Officer/Trait
Officer (German)
10 x Regulars
18 x German Infantry/Determined
3 x 6 Indians
AWI CONTINENTAL ARMY
Officer/Trait
Officer/Trait
10 x Continental Infantry
8 x Light Infantry
2 x 10 x Militia/Provincials
1 x 6 Stocksbridge Indians
Any obvious gaps Rich?
Thanks
James
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Got some bad news for you. I think the 8-18 unit size is a misprint. Pretty sure it's supposed to be 8-12. Still you just take them as two units of 9.
Will check with the author for you.
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Got some bad news for you. I think the 8-18 unit size is a misprint. Pretty sure it's supposed to be 8-12. Still you just take them as two units of 9.
Will check with the author for you.
Thanks Rich. I only put them in the 18 so as to make it play differently. 2 x 9 is fine, in fact i would have left it to my opponent to split them if he wanted as 18s may be unmanagable on the tabletop