Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: FifteensAway on May 12, 2023, 02:20:33 PM
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I recall in Wargames Illustrated decades ago there were some articles about some very stylized warships. Anyone recall the issues - especially the one with the aircraft carrier? I think they were for 25 mm games. I am looking to do something similar in 15 mm.
Looking to create a very stylized aircraft carrier for a war-game - much smaller than a 1930's era fleet carrier. However, I'm thinking of the USS Saratoga as inspiration, just dramatically downsized.
Probably use the Minairons biplanes for aircraft, the 1/144th scale, not the 1/100th scale - a little easier to manage size-wise.
Thoughts, references, guides - and those WI issues - happily entertained.
Thanks!
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I've got a whole thread on this on the Hereford1938 Blog:
https://hereford1938avbcwtng.blogspot.com/search/label/Naval
Lots of photos, including (I think) the Wargames Illustrated ones you mention. I've
yet to put my own two "stylized" aircraft carriers up on the blog, but you can see the
"toy" inspiration for them already there, plus Tim Rose's conversions of them.
One of the things that emerges from the thread is the size of the aircraft. The Wargames
Illustrated "stylized" carriers used 1/72 planes, but that meant that you could only have
one, or at the very most two, on the flightdeck. IMHO, that doesn't look right, rather
"overwhelming" the carrier itself. I guess we're all just used to seeing "flights" of aircraft
on a carrier deck, and the problem is how you achieve that "look" (or whether you're happy
to forego it).
I solved that problem by using "stylised" planes (which happened to fit in my VBCW world)
obtained very cheaply from Ebay - very 1930s -
https://hereford1938avbcwtng.blogspot.com/2020/04/aircraft-reach-for-vbcw-sky.html
Of course, they're not for everyone (nor frankly are the toy carriers!) but one way forward
might be to do the carrier in 1/100 to house 1/144 planes?
I'm still working out the right solution for "crew" i.e. should they be 28mm, 20mm, 15mm,
12mm to fit in with the size of the carrier and the size of the planes? At the moment, I'm
keeping "the crew" number down and intending to use a mixture of scales, ie Captain &
Staff in 28mm, aircrew in 20mm, AA gunners in 15mm. This way, of course, madness lies...
Trust this helps!
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leadboy,
Some cool stuff at your links. And the commenter who commented about Richard Marsh and November 1995 WI issue will get me where I want to go. I have that issue - somewhere, just have to dig it out of the magazine storage area.
My ship will be very stylized. Part of your write ups gave me an idea: Use a much smaller scale ship with smaller scale planes in order to build a 'larger' ship stationed off shore and then have larger planes (1/144) to fly over the game table land areas [a little bit of 'forced perspective']. But still a stylized ship. Off to explore something in the 1:220 (Z scale) size range which would be much easier to build, source parts for, and store and transport, all important considerations. Oh, and the smaller scale can allow a 'larger' version able to accommodate more planes on the deck! The main appeal of going 'smaller'.
Thanks for the reply. And glad to hear from others with ideas and thoughts.
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There were some toy carriers, scale unknown but they used to be for diecast toy planes, the first time I saw one it was about 3 feet long and probably 9 or 10 inches wide, but a decade later they were down to about 2 feet long.
If you could find a second hand one of those it might save some work on the hull.
You would still need to upgrade the superstructure and add appropriate detailing.
But it would be a robust foundation.
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FifteensAway - thanks and good ideas as playing with scale is both fun and kind of necessary
when you're looking to build an aircraft carrier ! One further idea: if you're looking at "stylized"
and going down in scale, perhaps the Meng Warship Builder Aircraft Carriers are a thought
(they've got a Lexington, certainly) - Fujimi also produce(d) some "eggship" Japanese aircraft
carriers, I think. Anyway, "eggship aircraft carrier" in google will produce lots of pretty pictures!
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... and good ideas as playing with scale is both fun and kind of necessary when you're looking to build an aircraft carrier !
Unless you are RichH or Akula ^__^
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Unless you are RichH or Akula ^__^
It was only 10 foot long, and besides… my VBCW days are long behind me :)
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While hunting around for bits and pieces and which carrier to model on, I've switched over to focusing on a Casablanca Class escort carrier. Being much smaller than a fleet carrier, should be easier to build something reasonable. But still plan to keep it at around 2'-3' in overall length. Off to hobby shop for a bit. edit: after realizing how late the escort carriers started building, not going that route - but might use their size as a guide.
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Well, other projects - some in 1:1 scale - muscled out the carrier project but finally back to it (though hunting parts in spare moments) and found the Richard Marsh article to use as a guide. Will be giving the photos some serious study to minimize down to the simplest items to give a ship-shape appearance without doing great detail. They are background to the planned game after all.
Probably the best find so far is Quaycraft and their 1:128 range of ship's parts. Might cost a bit but will give some 'authenticity' to my otherwise simplified models - I hope.
One advantage I will have is being in a smaller size I should be able to use solid bits of wood for my hulls, though I plan to at least glue some cross-grained pieces together before cutting out basic hulls. This is to help reduce possibility of warpage.
My plan is to scratch the following: aircraft carrier, destroyer/cruiser, one or two submarines, and two tramp steamers.
These will be added to two plastic model submarines, maybe one toy 'fantastical' submarine that will be greatly toned down, and three additional merchant ships from plastic ship models. May add in a tug boat and will add in that presidential yacht.
Now need to sort out that Quaycraft order and start getting serious.
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Rather than an aircraft carrier per se have you thought about a seaplane carrier/tender? Something along the lines of the USS Langley, the WW1 era Ark Royal or HMAS Albatross? Would be a bit more manageable and you could just buy/make an appropriately sized tramp steamer and whack a deck and some cranes on it. They are also pretty iconic interwar type ships.
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Carlos,
A variation on Langley is part of the plan - but not as a seaplane tender in WWII. This is for a game set in mid-1930s when Langley was an actual carrier. My version will only be flying on and off biplanes.
Scratching a couple of tramp steamers is necessary to ensure they can handle very specific figures - but a few will be conversions as mentioned.
Worthy of note that my goal is ahistorical.
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If you are still "in progress" on this project (and are in the continental US) I can cut and send to you hull shapes cut out of blue insulation board. I have built dozens of pre-dreadnought ships for my steampunk campaign. Insulation board is light, rigid and waterproof. Very handy stuff. Contact me at daftrica89@ yahoo.com if you are interested.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--4kq4WD-VyI/URWKAphkzWI/AAAAAAAAHCI/1FwUqO7rxdg/s1600/SAM_7636.JPG)
more here : https://antonswargame.blogspot.com/p/adventures-in-blue-board-and-foamcore.html (https://antonswargame.blogspot.com/p/adventures-in-blue-board-and-foamcore.html)
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Rather than an aircraft carrier per se have you thought about a seaplane carrier/tender? Something along the lines of the USS Langley, the WW1 era Ark Royal or HMAS Albatross?
There is always the HMS M2.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/British_Submarine_HMS_M2.jpg)
I have visited it, and it is very spooky.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_M2_(1918) (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_M2_(1918))
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It would take a few years and the Japanese obsession with gashapon to make it work.
The IJN developed a number of (relatively) successful submarine carriers. One of them was part of group, including mini-sub carrying submarines, that did something that successive post war Australian governments have attempted with little to no success, it actually lowered the price of Sydney waterside property prices. Sydneysiders panicked when their city was successively flown over, invaded by mini subs and then shelled. Folk fled west and property prices crashed.
It should be noted that living in the shadow of a giant coat hanger that annually gets used as a pyrotechnic mortar baseplate has been conclusively demonstrated to lower the intellect by up to forty points, so the Japanese can only claim a qualified success. ;)
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Project very much still alive and on the potential itinerary for 2024 - a few things up first that are higher priority.
Carlos M., I'm afraid I am throughly confused by your post.
Anton, for the moment I think I have a handle on things nautical but I will certainly keep your offer in mind (but feel free to PM with your rates if you are still paying attention).
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Gashapon: Those dopey egg shaped mystery toys that pop out of vending machines and are so beloved of the Japanese. Think of Kinder eggs.
Giant Coat Hanger: A bridge that purportedly unites the northern and southern sides of Sydney Harbour. Used annually to stage the New Year fireworks. Sydneysiders think this is so cool they queue for up to 18 hours to find a spot to watch this. Anyone who has seen the fireworks on Copacabana Beach knows the Sydney thing is a bit shit by comparison and you can get a drink in Rio.
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Used annually to stage the New Year fireworks. Sydneysiders think this is so cool they queue for up to 18 hours to find a spot to watch this. Anyone who has seen the fireworks on Copacabana Beach knows the Sydney thing is a bit shit by comparison and you can get a drink in Rio.
How do they compare to the Baltimore/DC Fireworks barges out in the Chesapeake? That's by far been the most impressive fireworks barrage I've seen so far, though it was 4th of July, not new year's (but then 4th is always going to be bigger in the States anyway).
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There's over a million people gather for reveillon on Copacabana beach. If you are using public transport you need to buy your metro ticket in advance. There are stages set up along the beach and genuine headline acts attend. Along with carnaval it's probably the biggest party on earth.
The fireworks are incredible, several tonnes worth from barges moored offshore, and it's a dramatic backdrop to start with added to by the collection of cruise liners that gather for the event.
After the fireworks people will party on and of course you have the spectacle of many thousands making tribute to Iemanjá, the goddess of the sea (something we do every year no matter where we are) throwing flowers into the sea and offering prayers in hope of a good new year.
Oh and did I mention you can drink? People bring booze to you and food. So unlike Australia, where public alcohol bans are in place on NYE and revellers only have some shit show, typically from a TV pop contestant, to distract them from the absence of booze.
Reveillon in Salvador is pretty damn good as you have the backdrop of one of the world's most beautiful and largest bays along with some of the world's happiest people but nothing comes close to Rio in terms of spectacle and experience.
So if you ever get the chance and you like fireworks..........
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Oh I do love fireworks.
Crowds, not so much... and that bit goes triple for the missus. lol
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If you just want the hull blanks they would be free. A complete model might run a bit more, I'm retired and build largely for amusement.
Once I got started I couldn't stop. They are in the mail and should arrive shortly
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEipHIpN1YUl9w5FdVLM2WGjpAgJc15haq9ffa4o84CyBwRGgGoDnhlhk2_gniWOUmxVNg3dg80ZTYBV2t8WHt9T1Y6hWSzBo33IuUBeiyey9SEOkc_OjikOL4N5izZkikckIXm2jTSaIYCrZ0CzmdWwx6Uvr6sUBURakcFU2lltg9Zg8WYEHB_14ztuVC7o/s4000/20240422_231324.jpg)
To see how that all happened look here : https://antonswargame.blogspot.com/2024/04/a-little-something-i-whipped-up-to-stay.html (https://antonswargame.blogspot.com/2024/04/a-little-something-i-whipped-up-to-stay.html)