Basing.. or rather base clipping.

[Murawski1812]

OK, I see a LOT of beautiful figures on the site and I am always trying to improve my skills. One thing I noticed was a lot of figures that are based foot-to-base..... meaning that they are directly mounted by their feet to the base.... I really love this look and wanted to ask everyone... how do you do it? They sell some very cool cobblestone bases I would like to use, but when you glue the model, with its base onto it, it doesn't look as cool....

All of the Frostgrave figures and so many more come with "built on" bases for ease of casting. I have tried clipping and filing, but I wind up ruining more than I successfully trim down.

As this is a look I really desire, does anyone have any suggestions on how to remove the built on bases from the Frostgrave plastics and cast so that I can pin and glue them directly to the flat cobblestone bases without damaging them too much?

thanks in advance,
Dan 

[Hammers]

I use a disc sander and grind the integral bases down to a 1mm thinness or so. Then I glue them to a steel washer and add texture to the base.

[Kegluneq]

A pair of snips, some files, and a bit of care is enough for me.  Start with some miniatures you don't care much about, though, because there's a trick to snipping the tabs and metal base parts away without twisting the feet, and when you make a mistake the ankles will snap.

With the metal Frostgrave miniatures, I tend to trim away the metal "disk" part and then snip off the last bit from beneath the foot.  Then, with a hand drill, I drill right up into the leg through the heel and ankle and set a pin.  For bases, I use wooden circular disks -- at Historicon and other conventions there are bins where you can fill up a chinese take-out container with bases of whatever size you like, or there are outfits like Litko that sell them en-masse -- and then use a thin layer of green stuff pressed into a mold to make textures.  I use Basius pads, because I got in on that kickstarter, but you can do it yourself with a hobby knife and a ball of crumpled tin foil if you prefer.

Pinning the miniatures into the base gives the whole thing weight and presence.  Makes it stronger, and keeps the miniature from having that weird "lip" where the metal part has been glued onto a plastic disk.  However, I have also done a few bases where I just glue the base down, and then use superglue and some paver's base sand (super cheap) to make rugged terrain instead of bricks.

One last thing: Liquitex Black Gesso is my new favorite undercoat, and it also does a good job of sealing basing materials down.  Brush on, and it shrinks to fit, sealing the miniature.  Best of all, on my Reaper Bones miniatures, it gets rid of that persistent sticky-tacky feeling that would come with sealing the miniature.  Even covered in paint, the bones miniatures would get tacky with a sealer -- brush-on, testors, anything -- but starting with the black gesso eliminated the problem.

Hope this helps.

[Murawski1812]

Thanks!
I have tried the clippers and even slowly cutting with a hobby knife.. I have gotten the snapped ankles, etc....
I just really like the flat cobblestone disc bases I picked up and wanted to get the figures directly attached to them.

I don't have a sander that I think would work, but maybe at work... I was worried that there would be warping or even melting.

Unfortunately.. I tried some of these techniques on good figures, not.... lets say.. practice ones. So with failure came sadness and a reluctance to do this, but once I picked up these new bases.. well.. it is time to try again!

[Roger]

The way I've found that works without to much grief is to start on the outside edges with thin edge clippers, the cheap Chinese ones work well.
clip off around the outside of the feet, dont cut through the middle with to much meat still there, as this produces to much sideways movement (dont ask how I know this )
then I cut a line across in front of the feet, then behind the back of the feet .
Once I've narrowed this down as much as I can then I do 2 cuts between the feet , so I cut a section out, a thin saw works well.
then carefully snip around the feet.
sanding the bottom of the feet is a little bit to much pressure for the now thin leg so I support the foot on a flat surface and
cut the bottom off with a new sharp scalpel or craft knife.
Hope this helps
Roger

[Philhelm]

Plastic:  A sharp clipper should work fine.  Simply cut bits from around the base until the feet are outlined.  I would probably not start with a  cut down the middle though, since it will likely put stress on the legs.  The clipper can also be used to cut the majority of plastic beneath the feet, then you can simply file it down with a fine metal file.

Metal:  It would probably be best to saw the integral base manually.  Using the clippers will likely put a lot of stress on the model otherwise, as you have seen.  Afterward, just manually file the feet as necessary.

[Kegluneq]

Thanks!
I have tried the clippers and even slowly cutting with a hobby knife.. I have gotten the snapped ankles, etc....
I just really like the flat cobblestone disc bases I picked up and wanted to get the figures directly attached to them.

I don't have a sander that I think would work, but maybe at work... I was worried that there would be warping or even melting.

Unfortunately.. I tried some of these techniques on good figures, not.... lets say.. practice ones. So with failure came sadness and a reluctance to do this, but once I picked up these new bases.. well.. it is time to try again!

I cannot emphasize enough how important pins are to my whole operation.  Lots of things get pins.  I even use musical wire (for guitars and things) for my pins instead of paperclips and things and have some old bolt cutters I use specifically for cutting the musical wire because simple snips won't cut it.  Even if you have a weak joint on the miniature or a bit of damage to a foot, a good solid pin up into the leg and then down into your cobble bases (resin, I assume?) will save the miniature and make it resistant to falls.

The one thing you do not want to do is just superglue the feet of the miniature onto the base.  Cyanoacrylate cements do terrible with shearing forces, and miniatures will pop right off if you just superglue them down.  Superglue and a pin, though, gives support and structure.  No more issues.  Yes, my hand aches from using the hand drill but it's a skill that has really paid off.

Scoring up smooth surfaces also helps, so even if you cannot get a pin into a foot if there's a little flat surface you are trying to glue down you can carefully scrape some lines into it for superglue to make a stronger bond.  Frostgrave plastics do wonderfully well with this, and its easier and safer to score plastic than metal.

[Kegluneq]

...Chinese ones work well.
clip off around the outside of the feet, dont cut through the middle with to much meat still there, as this produces to much sideways movement (dont ask how I know this )
then ...

I know exactly how you know this.  With metal miniatures you can fix that bow-legging but with plastics you run the risk of just snapping the legs. If you are not patient enough to use a saw, cutting triangles has worked for me.  And then I have metal scraps I can use to make fake cobbles on other bases. 

Very near my own method, too. 

[pacarat]

For pinning and drilling, I use a flexible shaft attached to my dremel, and use a sewing machine pedal inline to power.

left hand holds fig, right hand the dremel shaft, and right foot controls rpm. works great.

[Connectamabob]

My procedure is the same regardless of material. First, I trim as close as possible with clippers. I use regular toenail clippers; I've tried a bevvy of different types and brands of nippers, and believe it or not, ordinary drugstore toenail clippers are the most clean-cutting and robust type of clippers I've found for model use by a wide margin.

Using the toenail clippers in small wedges/increments, I can sometimes get rid of the bridge of material between the feet without bending/stressing them if the space is wide enough, and the base is a "ground" type instead of a slotta tab.

Next, I use a scalpel to whittle the rest down to posts a little narrower than the feet themselves. Work a little conservatively: it's better to leave a little bit of extra material around the peg base than to risk cutting into the foot itself. If I was unable to eliminate the bridge between the feet with clipping, I will thin it down by whittling at this stage. Sometimes I can whittle it entirely away, sometimes I have to finish with a saw. Thin it as much as possible before getting out the saw, as the thinner it is, the less force the saw will impart to the figure beyond the cut. The important thing is to work in thin shavings instead of trying to carve wedges or chunks off, as this will be much more precise, and will impart less stress to the ankles.

If the legs/ankles are thinner than I feel secure with, I will whittle it down to the soles in anticipation of pinning instead of leaving a peg.

Then I finish with a file, shaping the pegs to round instead of faceted shape, and sculpting the material around the base of the pegs down to the soles proper.

If the legs/ankles are good enough, I mark and drill holes in my base of choice to accept the foot-pegs. If the legs/ankles are too weedy to feel secure/durable, I carefully drill up through the foot and pin. How far I drill and what material of pin I use depends on the shape and material of the model.

Pinning thin legs does take some careful spatial awareness skills: if the drill is off angle even a little, you can end up distorting or drilling out the side of the leg further up. I usually try to get to the knee, as the ankle is the major week point. On one or two occasions I've gone up to mid-thigh, but that's rare and "special circumstances".

My experiences with CA glue in general have been very inconsistent, so I use JB Weld epoxy. Takes a long time to cure, but you never ever ever ever have to worry about it failing, and it fills gaps, so you don't have to worry about mating surfaces fitting perfect.

[Murawski1812]

Thank you all again... I don't think I need to tell anyone what grief I have had so far!

Yes, I know pinning is key, especially with lead to plastic. I have had some good luck with plastic to plastic, but I use Loctite glues.... (cyanoacrylates) gel and quick set with Prism. So I have mostly pinned lead to plastic.

The bases I am using are the textured ones (cobblestones). I used to rough up my Flames of War bases as they were very slippery/flat... I even would soak them to get rid of the mold release.... the FoW bases have a LOT on them.

I tried some clipping last night... I now need to get between the legs and then remove the base remaining under the feet.

[Duke Donald]

My advice to you is very similar to Connectamabob's excellent post to you, with a few minor differences. I use a good quality wire side clipper rather than a toenail clipper, even if I admit the end result is likely to be same. I always pin both feet if the mini allows for it. This can be a delicate operation and requires very fine vise drills. I generally use a 0.5mm drill. I then insert fine dressmakers pins into the holes.

That said, I actually recently started using 0.5mm transparent bases and whilst I still pin the mini to fix it on a cork for converting and painting, I stopped pinning the minis on their bases after removing the pins and simply glue them with two tiny drops of super glue. I was reluctant to try this out (as I'm a bit obsessed with pinning everything), but to my surprise, this actually works perfectly and the bond is remarkably strong. Another advantage of not pinning to the base is that I do not have to drill very deep anymore into the legs, thus saving time and reducing the risk of breaking the min in the process.

Minis pinned on a cork:


and the same ones based:

[Murawski1812]

I have very good clippers (side cutters) and a large variety of very small/fine drill bits for the work.

I will have to get to work on these....

Currently, as I was undecided upon how to do the base work, I started on the Frostgrave skeletons.... who, as I am seeing it.. are harder plastic and come on thicker bases with thinner legs....

Time to practice on more sturdy ones.

 

[Major_Gilbear]

With plastic models, you can just sand down the base thickness drastically using some coarse sandpaper (or a little hand sander if you have one and are careful). Then, when it's thin, it's exceptionally easy to clip off and file around the feet with no problem or risk of damaging the model.

For metal bases you can do the same, but it takes longer/is more work. However, one you've reduced the base thickness to thick foil, you can just clip the rest off without much hassle or risk of breaking the model's ankles.

With metal bases, there's another trick I use (especially for the so-called "Broccoli" bases that Reaper Miniatures favours). You drill up through the base between the feet, and then widen the hole with a bigger drill bit. Then, with strong clippers, start cutting wedges (like pizza slices) out of the base, cutting back to the hole you've drilled. This will let you get a very tight finish to the feet which you can then clean up with a file. What the hole does is prevent the clipping of the base from "squeezing" the metal between the legs and deforming it so that it forces the legs apart and damages them.

You can also combine the sanding with the drilled hole and clipping if the base happens to be especially difficult, or if the model's feet/ankles are especially delicate.

[Murawski1812]

I am currently clipping down the henchmen form the box set. I will wait for the lead ones last.

It is actually a little bit easier than I anticipated....
The soldiers are clipping easy.... the undead are a bit harder.... and have thicker bases I think because of the thinner extremities.....