Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: cuprum on July 04, 2015, 01:35:33 PM
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Photo album from the archives of the Soviet Col. Gen. Aviation - Ivan Sokolov.
http://www.photo-war.com/ru/archives/album4942.htm?page=11
In the album contains photos taken in the twenties, during service in Mongolia. Photos national holidays, architecture, pictures Mongolians in traditional costumes, photo graves in the open air. Portraits and group photos of Red Army soldiers, domestic scenes, performance of military service, military exercises, the celebration the First of May, photo banner Ulaanbaatar separate Cavalry Division, photographs aircraft P-1 Mongolian Air Force, as well as some pictures of the forties.
Several particularly interesting photo:
(http://www.photo-war.com/photo/shop/4976.jpg)
The Red Army man in the center of - armed with a rifle Winchester Model 1885 Single-Shot with a telescopic sight.
(http://www.photo-war.com/photo/shop/4953.jpg)
(http://www.photo-war.com/photo/shop/5010.jpg)
(http://www.photo-war.com/photo/shop/5011.jpg)
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German troops in Ukraine in 1918
http://joanerges.livejournal.com/1673373.html?view=9311389#t9311389
Several particularly interesting photo:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8256/8617857434_e255522733_c.jpg)
The armored train, captured by from the Bolsheviks.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8514/8589740127_8c275b7da8_c.jpg)
This German armored car, captured later Reds. Still later this armored car was captured Whites - is already from Reds.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8382/8632764670_bd3bc0809e_c.jpg)
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GREAT stuff!
Thanks for posting
Mike
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Looks like A Bussing armoured car -
http://www.barrageminiatures.com/30-vehicles
Barrage miniatures have one in 1/56 - apparently only a few were ever produced and all were used on the Eastern Front
Excellent model by the way.
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Panzerautomobil "Ehrhardt E/V-4 M.1915" (1. Pz-Auto-MG-Abteilung)
Here this armored car in the Don Army (White):
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i635/1304/74/87fb25df7e1a.jpg)
He was named "Colonel Bezmolitvenny"
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Rather depends on your definition of a few, lolforty or so made during the 'war'and another twenty+ After the war (these weren't as tough or well armoured as the war time vehicles)and there's also a report of one being used in the defence of Berlin in ww2.
In all an underrated model for gaming,(yes I do have one in my own range as do a couple of other companies :D)it's definitely a model worth adding to your collection regardless of who you buy it from.
Some very interesting pictures and a great find ,the staff car being my favourite it'll make a great story piece model for any collection.
Thanks for posting,
Mark.
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Thanks for sharing.
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Thanks Cuprum, interesting as always!
LB
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Cracking Cuprum! Thought it looked like an Erhardt myself .
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Great pictures,keep em coming!
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Fascinating photos Mr Cuprum....thanks for sharing
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Amazing. Thanks
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Those images are very interesting, especially the first one. I take note of the Remington or Winchester with the scope. Vary cool.
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(http://i011.radikal.ru/1510/5a/f4d68910bab5.jpg)
Achtung! Partisanen!
Protection of the German trains from partisan attacks. 1918.
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i602/1510/83/7fdd0416baa6.jpg)
The funeral of victims after a train wreck, arranged by the partisans. 1918.
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Your not making it easy for me to stick to my project list!
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"The armored train, captured by from the Bolsheviks."
Now this is amazing-never seen one with a slate or tile pitched roof over part of it before, and the tower looks way to big, and seems to be build from wood and stone! Would have expected it to have a heavy gun mounted in it?
I am going to have to do one of these... ;)
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This improvised armored wagons. Actually this is the usual steel wagon, usually used to transport coal. In the wall just cut slits for machine guns.
Such improvised armored trains were used frequently and everywhere. Including interventionists. Here for example an American armored train in Siberia:
(http://s020.radikal.ru/i707/1510/ea/b9c0bba1eabc.jpg)
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Interesting that the American railcar fit on the Russian broad-gauge rails!
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By order of the Russian government in the United States it was made more than a thousand such railcars even before the the First World War.
Americans:
(http://s017.radikal.ru/i409/1510/e4/2ba3bc28586b.jpg)
Armored railcar red:
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i634/1510/ae/2f09e3a00575.png)
Czech:
(http://s017.radikal.ru/i419/1510/50/59b871e64e83.jpg)
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Ah, if they were purchased for export, that makes sense they would be made to fit Russian rails already.
Interesting that the car kept its very American logo though!
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It's interesting to see that the American troops in the first image are in a dog toothed revetment.Turning the car into a mobile trench.I think I can see that as a model.
Mark.
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I think that the coat of arms of on the American armored train painted ourselves American soldiers.
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American soldiers, like many other interventionists, were engaged mainly the protection of railway lines in the rear of Kolchak from the red partisans. But not always successful - the partisans burned the bridge:
(http://s020.radikal.ru/i715/1510/ce/508c5fc76642.jpg)
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Fantastic resources as always I was especially gladdened by pics of Ehrhardt E/V-4 M.1915. Can download a paper one here http://www.landships.info/landships/models.html#
Always good see more trains the number of configurations seems almost endless.
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"The armored train, captured by from the Bolsheviks."
Now this is amazing-never seen one with a slate or tile pitched roof over part of it before, 9and the tower looks way to big, and seems to be build from wood and stone! Would have expected it to have a heavy gun mounted in it?
I am going to have to do one of these... ;)
Sorry to burst your bubble but they are structures behind the rail wagon. The 'tower' is probably a water tank.
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In Siberia and the Far East, in the rear of the Kolchak white troops fought around 100,000 Red partisans. Actually, no less than a third of them, fought under the anarchist black banners. Armies of anarchists were here even more than Makhno's army. Alas - about it little is known even in Russia itself.
Partisans had big problems with the weapons - about a third of partisans at the time of arrival of the Red Army were armed only with peaks(!), Also had a lot of hunting rifles and even capsular muskets. Often, partisans have used home-made cannon.
Partisans destroying small groups of white and interventionists, destroyed railway lines and bridges, controlled vast areas the countryside. When approaching Red Army captured the even small towns, chased the retreating enemy army.
After the arrival of Reds there were anti-Bolshevik partisans. Often these were those who had previously fought against the White Army, especially anarchists. But they were much smaller - about 30,000 people. Eventually they were defeated and disappeared.
(http://s42.radikal.ru/i095/1102/af/4bdb6761676b.jpg)
(http://s006.radikal.ru/i213/1406/2b/57749dbc30f3.jpg)
(http://s017.radikal.ru/i415/1307/b7/4da66c881321.png)
(http://papercraft.mybb.ru/uploads/000a/82/08/6730-1-f.jpg)
(http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/itaishinja/imgs/8/4/847efdde.jpg)
(http://cs407420.userapi.com/v407420105/232e/THdfparFY-4.jpg)
(http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/t_rm/19634584/268001/268001_900.jpg)
(http://shcotovo.narod.ru/scotovo.files/pic/olds/gros/kim_pen_ha_gros.jpg)
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Brilliant!
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This is a photo of my great grandfather, who was a Mennonite living near Odessa. My family left in the 1920s during the Stalinist Harvest of Sorrow.
As Mennonites are non-resisters, he was a rebel for joining the war effort at all, most did forstei service under terms rendered from the immigration under Catherine the Great.
Interestingly, during the Revolution, the Mennonites (well, some of them) picked up arms fought off armed bands looking to pillage, loot, or collectivize their farms. As being of Germanic descent, they were stuck in the middle. The formation of selbstschutzen was a first in nearly 500 years of Anabaptist and Mennonite doctrine. I wrote a paper on it in university, using the translated archives in Winnipeg. There is also a Master's thesis published there surrounding these events. To my knowledge, there are no other investigations into this phenomenon - and Mennonites today cringe when they talk about the resistance. Back to peace, I suppose.
Nevertheless here he is, in a Red Cross or medic uniform, my guess is 1917, with his buddies. One of them scored a nice warm Cossack style hat. My great grandfather is seated far right, looking at the picture, with the cap at a jaunty angle. That's how I roll too. He is like a mirror my father, and partly me. This picture is in my possession.
I hope you find it interesting cuprum, and others - I posted it once before but the mods removed it. Now that we have a thread, I hope it stays as it is relevant and historical.
(https://cama4.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/ax9kyty.jpg)
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Hi Grant. Photos really interesting, it's a pity that it is is not directly related to the theme of the Civil War.
I would like to to correct you some in what - in 1920 to Stalin's repressions was still very far :)
But the the Mennonites were really big problems. German settlements in Ukraine have been very prosperous, which caused interest among the various criminal and irregular forces. Germans brutally robbed and killed, and the Makhnovists, and the formation of Ukrainian nationalists. Red was carried out violent mobilization in the army, paying no attention to the the Mennonites pacifism. Mennonites have been forced to create armed self-defense groups in order to protect their homes and families. However on this subject among the the Mennonites was a split, by no means all communities have decided to create such detachments. With the arrival of the white these detachments forcibly headed by the White Guard officers, automatically turning these units into the enemies of the Red Army.
Thus the Mennonites served in arms in the composition and the white and the red army.
I know three very battle-worthy red army units consisting of the Mennonites, very well showed in battles: 1st Ekaterinshtadt German Communist Infantry Regiment, 2nd Baltsersk Infantry Regiment and German cavalry brigade.
(http://www.rusdeutsch.ru/image/history/Glava5/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5%20%D0%95%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%88%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B4%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%20%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BA%D0%B0.jpg)
Commanders of the Ekaterinenshtadt regiment
In white served volunteers Mennonites in the crew of an armored train "Dmitry Donskoy" in the Life Guards Dragoon squadron white Volunteer Army,
was formed German Jaeger Brigade (but later the Brigade moved to the side of the Red Army).
At us in the Altai region in Siberia, also lives a lot of Germans - have extensive German rural district and the city (Slavgorod), where the predominant german population. During the Civil War, they took an active part in the uprising and guerrilla struggle against the whites and Kolchak.
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It was the Stalinist collectivization of farms at the end of the 1920s, followed by the Harvest of Sorrow in 1932 (6 million to 14 million Ukrianians are estimated to have died) that caused my family to leave. http://www.amazon.com/The-Harvest-Sorrow-Collectivization-Terror-Famine/dp/0195051807#productDescription_secondary_view_div_1446476125491
Great extra information on the forces, I know the pictures a bit early, but still the uniforms would be similar enough eh?
There's also a good book called Ruslander by Sandra Birdsell which is a fictional account of this period, but based on the experiences of Manitoba Mennonites. A very good read!
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I know about the great famine in 30th years. Here in Siberia, and beside, in Kazakhstan, also died of hunger a lot of people. But the Conquest, in my opinion, is very biased researcher.
Uniforms on your photo certainly looks like a uniform Civil War period - all the armies used then a similar uniform. But it is very unusual cap badges on their caps. I have not seen these earlier. If you want - I will place this photo on Russian specialized resources to try to establish what the this military unit.
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Thanks cuprum; indeed it was a difficult time for all.
Looking forward to more information!
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Very interesting information.
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Hi Grant.
Your grandfather served in the the infirmary public organization "Union of Russian cities." This organization was established in August 1914 to help the government in the supply of military weapons and equipment, the provision medical aid wounded at the front. July 10, 1915 together with the "Zemsky Union" organized "Zemgor": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zemgor
Employees of this organization had an informal nickname of "Zemsky Hussars."
If you want details - need large scans of the shoulder straps in order to be visible letters.
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I guess it's the Chinese. 1929 - the Soviet-Chinese conflict.
Peaks short, for the cavalry, as it seems to me not suitable. And shoes for cavalrymen are not suitable. Even the officer. Pikemen?
(http://www.sammler.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-24473-0-45942400-1503423293.jpg)
Soviet armored train in battle. 1929.
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i619/1708/a5/5a552bc09dff.jpg)
Chinese improvised armored train. 1929.
(http://s013.radikal.ru/i324/1708/8b/e804349b1722.jpg)
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Cool. Also, the spears seem a bit short to be used as horse lances.
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I thought the same thing. In addition, they do not have sabers.
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I thought the same thing. In addition, they do not have sabers.
Well, one of them has a big sword, but those were more like infantry melee weapons, if I remember correctly.
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I just love this shit, thank you again Cuprum
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I guess it's the Chinese. 1929 - the Soviet-Chinese conflict.
Peaks short, for the cavalry, as it seems to me not suitable. And shoes for cavalrymen are not suitable. Even the officer. Pikemen?
(http://www.sammler.ru/uploads/monthly_08_2017/post-24473-0-45942400-1503423293.jpg)
They have rifles, so I doubt the pike is their prime weapon.
I wonder if it isn't to fight off cavalry. Spears went out of fashion when bayonets came in, but spears are better if you know you are going to have to fight off mounted troops.
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Perhaps the rifles do not have a bayonet? In addition, there is a certain predilection of the Chinese for hand-to-hand fighting with traditional weapons. Perhaps a spear for the Chinese is more convenient and familiar to the bayonet in hand-to-hand combat.
Combat infantry against the cavalry with cold steel? In the 20th century? We need a tight formation. An ideal target for artillery or a tachanka. Even for ordinary infantry with shop rifles ...
I think the spear is a replacement for the bayonet.
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One thought, spears are quite effective against unarmed civilians not so much against trained and armed soldiers.
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A rifle with a bayonet is still more effective anyway. From it you can simultaneously shoot and use in melee. I think here the issue is not efficiency, but lack of armament.
Let's remember Chinese units of swordsmen of the period of the Second World War. The reason for their appearance is the lack of modern weapons.
(http://s009.radikal.ru/i307/1708/9c/41baba70c366.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cB4Rx0WVqAs/VqUdHMZPmkI/AAAAAAAAE4w/2k9aqDiaAcU/s1600/Chinese_Soldiers_of_the_29th_Route_Army_%25281937%2529_Chinese_Nationalist.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VttxoosUr0Q/VqVpFtdGj5I/AAAAAAAAE7k/nINEt00QYDY/s1600/Chinese_Soldiers_Army_Nationalist.jpeg)
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"Combat infantry against the cavalry with cold steel? In the 20th century?"
Yes, the Polish general Juliusz Rómmel, Commander of the 1st Cavalry Division, ordered the Polish infantry just to receive the much feared red cavalry of Semyon Budyonny in formations from the Napoleonic wars, in closed ranks with bayonets and infantry fire (plus of course use of all the available machine guns).
And it worked fine.
If I remember correctly, it is described in "White Eagle, Red Star", by Norman Davies.
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The tactics of Napoleonic wars :D
Did the Poles have special spears to fight the Red cavalry or did they have enough rifles with bayonets? ;)
Such cases often occurred during the Civil War in Russia. Even reflected in feature films. But still, no special spears were made for this. But the guerrillas, with a lack of modern weapons used spears often. In Siberia, two-thirds of the red partisans were armed with spears and used them in combat.
1:42 - 2:59
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIIexTJuSKU
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"Cotton" armored trains.
In Transcaspian Front, because of the lack of necessary materials for creating improvised armored trains, cotton bales were used.
British:
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i617/1705/1c/c8c541c5bff0.jpg)
Reds:
(http://s018.radikal.ru/i524/1705/56/f448a44cec6d.jpg)
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Fantastic pictures- thank you for sharing.
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Polski_improwizowany_pociag_pancerny_z_1920r.jpg
Polish improvised "armoured" train 1920