What size for an 'essential' ACW collection - a "final" plan?

[FifteensAway]

Helping sell off a massive estate of miniatures collection has thoroughly invigorated my resolve to bring my own collection into a more manageable size, not by reducing periods but by reducing total numbers of figures within a period.  This will be occurring on multiple fronts.

I have both painted and unpainted, a Very Large collection of 15 mm ACW figures, both sides.  Time to reduce, at a minimum, which might keep the reduced part of the collection in my possession.  A big part of the goal is to reduce storage space needed.  And to avoid the insanity I am seeing with the estate sale - it is very possible that a hundred pounds, maybe a couple hundred pounds of figures will end up being nothing more than "fishing weights" from the estate.

I like the idea of having an "army" for both sides with brigades, divisions, and corps to build that army - but stylized to keep the numbers down.

I'm sure I will keep the unit sizes at 18 figures (currently at 24 + mounted colonel with a foot figure) to match my rules of choice, Rank and File.

What I am seeking input on is how many regiments to form a brigade, will three regiments be enough or should it be four regiments in a brigade?

Same question for the cavalry brigades, but possibly as few as two regiments to form a brigade?  Thoughts?

I am less concerned with it all being historically correct, that can be varied for a specific scenario with what is ultimately kept. 

I already know I will keep it at two brigades per division, and two divisions to a corps, with two corps to form an army.  I will also add at least a division of cavalry to each army.  And the north will get a reinforced division of colored troops beyond the basic army - or at least a brigade with cavalry and artillery.

I am thinking for the CSA, one brigade of gray over blue, another of gray over brown, one of just zouaves/tigers, and one of all butternut, and then more of gray over blue.  Take at least eight brigades to form the army as described above.

For the USA, there will be basic brigades of blue over light blue, the Iron brigade, the Irish brigade, maybe the Pennsylvania bucktails, a Zouave brigade, and a naval/marine brigade (at least in part).

I don't need to buy a single figure - at all - to make this happen.  Just need to reduce some of the already painted and paint a few units to mix in.

432 figures for 3 regiment brigades, 576 figures for 4 regiment brigades - double those numbers for both USA and CSA, plus the additional figures for the union, 864 or 1152, plus cavalry and artillery, casualties and generals, etc. 

Thank you for your input.

PS:  Yes, I know the zouaves and other specialty units were unlikely to form brigades, the above is more to guide building a visually enjoyable collection - and to avoid some of the tedium of the same units over and over paintingwise.

[kingsmt]

All I can say, my friend, is "Good Luck".

[Norm]

I am trying to build up ACW forces at the moment (28mm), so to get some early games in, I am going for 3 regiment Brigades and will want 3 - 4 brigades per side in total, representing 1 division.

Once I get enough regiments to do the above, I will increase either one or two brigades to 4 regiments in size, just for flexibility in coping with a wider variety of scenarios.

Amongst all of that, each side will just have 1 regiment of Zouaves as a representational thing and each side has one cavalry regiment, that at the end of building everything else, I might upgrade to two cavalry regiments.

I quite like the idea of having a ‘contained’ army, simply because it fits my table, my storage space and allows for other contained armies from other periods to also be owned. 

[FifteensAway]

Norm, sounds like a good plan.

And Kingsmt, nice to hear from you.

I think what I need is someone to 'figuratively' whack me over the head with a rubber mallet and yell at me, "You fool, you don't need that many figures!  Go smaller."

The good side of this is I already have a lot painted.  Just trying to get more rational in the overall size.  Or just plain sell the lot and focus on other areas.  Like the AWI - which Kingsmt will appreciate!

[vtsaogames]

Keep the numbers down? Three regiments per brigade then, two cavalry.

Another choice for variation in painting Union troops: the Vermont brigade had grey trousers.

[Leapsnbounds]

 I am in the same boat.  What would be a perfect sized gaming collection.  I look forward to the input in this post.

[FifteensAway]

For those of you building ACW armies, if you haven't already seen it, I recommend Mataksihi's recent thread here:

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=144889.0

Especially if you are building in 28 mm.  But even in 15 mm, that is a good place to start at and allows some good games with a little scenario variation.  Not sure I'd base skirmishers the way he has but apparently works with his rules - and adds some color to his collection.

[SteveBurt]

My 20mm ACW armies are 12 infantry regiments (32 figures) per side, 3 cavalry (10 figures) per side and about a dozen guns each side.
That’s enough for an evening’s gaming. They were completed over 25 years ago and I’ve never felt the need to add to them.

[vtsaogames]

I mostly play Bloody Big Battles, so my basic unit is often a brigade of ~4 stands. I have ~110 union infantry bases, 8 cavalry bases, 12 guns, and 12 dismounted cavalry, more than I need plus horse holders. And staff. My buddy has a similar force of Confederates.
If each infantry unit was a 4 stand regiment, that would be ~ 27 regiments or 6 to 9 brigades, 3 or 4 divisions.

This 15mm force basically fills up my plastic shoebox they call home.

[FifteensAway]

I sit at 41 ready to play infantry regiments, 21 Union, 20 Confederate, with 47 27 getting revamped by adding figures which would bring the total to 68 (3 "new" primed in that lot).  There is another 40 units waiting for paint.  That's 108.  And then cavalry and artillery and command, etc.  Considerably more than is needed.  While fun to plan and build, just too much to move forward with.  Time marches on and so does getting older.  And I don't want to leave my wife an excessive burden if I kick off before she does.

[vtsaogames]

I told my wife to give the figures to my buddies in the event. They can haggle over who gets the ancient, the medieval, the SYW/F&I, the AWI, the ACW, the 1866-1870 bunch, the WWI and WWII. Or she can put it out in the trash if that's easier. 

[OB]

I did something like this a while ago. I was trying to bring coherence to a succession of my own failed ACW Projects.

I went for 3 regiments per brigade, 2 units of cavalry mounted and dismounted and 2 batteries. I ended up with 3 infantry brigades, a small cavalry brigade and the artillery.

Enough for a nice sized game in 15mm.  I did both sides of course.

From then on I added whatever took my fancy. Tigers, Berdan's that sort of thing.

[syrinx0]

While fun to plan and build, just too much to move forward with. 

Maybe you can sell 'complete' ACW sides from your surplus? Finish painting while you enjoy it but sell some regiments/brigades as starter sets to others.

[forrester]

If you are planning on downsizing  and still having more than one corps, for me thats still a LOT !
I have in 6mm about 12 infantry units a side.. they are supposed to be brigades but look like regiments.  So as brigades I have a corps, as regiments a division.

Some brigades historically have several regiments but I think small ones, so you could easily let 3 units stand for all of them.

[FifteensAway]

Yeah, some good advice.  I need to convince myself to go smaller.  And, yes, sell off excess, painted or not - and already have a potential buyer. 

A stylized corps per side should be more than enough for most games.  Going that route can reduce to 12 and 12 infantry regiments per side with 3 regiment brigades - and maybe keep the 24 figure units on 8 stands, be a little less 'painful' in some ways.  And still add in the USCT for the Union.  That could easily get to 756 infantry figures.  Though already tempted to go to 4 regiment brigades which add another 224 + 24 USCT figures, or 1,008 infantry. 

That 1,008 may sound like a lot but I am a good chunk of the way there already, only needing a total of 36 regiments.  Would still need to paint some more units to get that mix I want - but that means more to sell to recoup a modest sum.  Would sell at a deal to potential buyer, a good friend.

Continuing on, by staying at one corps per side, I can just field a brigade of cavalry per side which is another 432 figures (4 units * 18 * 3 for mounted man on a horse and dismounts and householders doubled for the two sides.). Again, have probably considerably more than half the figures painted to get there.  Artillery would be easy, more than enough ready to go as far as guns, just need to paint more gunners to field four man crews, not overly difficult.  And I could paint up enough limbers - with caissons - to really make it look good.  And add in named generals (have a bunch) and maybe a few extras and almost there.  Just the wagons to mix in, have a few painted per side already.  And then a wee group of contraband and some special figures.

I could end up with a great collection with perhaps less than half the total figures sitting waiting for paint and/or ready to play.  A much smaller 'obstacle' to overcome.  And, if obstacle overcome and all painted and based the same, a nice collection to sell to a well-heeled buyer if I decide to let it go.

Keep on pushing me, folks.  I have lots and lots of casualty figures to add to the mix - and even some field hospital stuff, heck I even have Lincoln and Davis!  Should I include those just for the fun of it?  Decisions, decisions, decisions.  Quandaries and frustrations, too.  And opportunities. 

Unarmed civilians are easily sourced from my Old West stuff.  Want to talk having too much - that collection is absurd in size.  Not planning, yet, to downsize there, a true passion that the ACW just isn't for me, just another period.