The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[YPU]

And GW is going to follow the Warmahordes model in every posible way.

Not sure how exactly I would define the warmahordes model... More CCG like with ever expanding combos taking over the "best list" spot?

[Ajsalium]

Probably.

But mostly I was referring to this:
· The rulebook will come with the lists for the six factions.
· Said lists only include basic units (maybe just 3 or 4 per faction).
· There will be "campaigns" that will provide new units for every faction.
· Those units will only be sold temporally (until the next "campaign").
· Round bases, for skirmish action.

[YPU]

Meh, sounds like a huge leap, I remain sceptical.

Mind, I might actually like to see a WHFB skirmish game, but less miniatures implies even higher prices for less models per box.... 

[Tactalvanic]

Meh, sounds like a huge leap, I remain sceptical.

Mind, I might actually like to see a WHFB skirmish game, but less miniatures implies even higher prices for less models per box.... 

Agree with the skepticism but you have hit on the similarity there with GW's standard approach - less content, more cost.

So it does fit.

The idea of limited edition, already exists and recent releases for 40K have had a couple boxed sets of limited edition stuff. Granted some as re-releases.. Twice.. but that aside, no reason not to do it to WHFB.

I would agree with skepticism of them systematically copying any particular competitors systems,

 I can see them cherry picking in effect the bits - from any sources - including competing systems, to then be applied to the shrinking pool of customers they have to bleed moneys from.

Nothing new there.

The idea of skirmish game is nice, but again its GW and cynically they did skirmish in the Warhammer world before, and very well with the likes of Mordheim.

Thats going or gone digital along with a lot of other "specialist" older games they no longer support..

Sigh, if any of its true I suspect its:

1. we are going to change WHFB completely. Just Because
2. rulebooks and miniatures will cost more for less content. Because thats what we do
3  You will still pay for/buy it.
4. We want more money/blood from the few of you still buying are stuff.
 
The size creep for supersized centre piece models suggest as well that it won't be that long before that centre piece is the only piece in your Army Skirmish Warband

[Timbor]

I have been following these rumours, I guess time will tell.  I just wonder how well they will do if they clone warmachine.  I mean, folks are leaving GW for the likes of Privateer Press... I assume those loyal to GW like the mass battle aspect of the game.  If that is completely reworked, then they could lose that loyalty.  My understanding is the appeal of PP is, among other things, well written and balanced rules (compared to GW I guess) and a very supportive relationship with the community events.  Both have traditionally been lacking in GW of late.

Regardless, I think it may be time to try and pick up a few boxes of GW stuff I have admired but not wanted to buy outright.  These rumours suggest they may be doing away with large parts of the range, so... hmmmm. 

[Vanvlak]

Regardless, I think it may be time to try and pick up a few boxes of GW stuff I have admired but not wanted to buy outright.  These rumours suggest they may be doing away with large parts of the range, so... hmmmm. 

Yes, but which are going? I guess the current fluff gives clues, but I'm not following it. Did someone mention Bretonnia disappears or something?

[Timbor]

I have no idea what disappears.  I just wanted to get some of the recent wood elves.  That and some warhammer forge figures.  I bet those will go eventually too.  FW has put up the rules for all their monsters online for free:  http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/fwDownloads

[Cubs]

Did someone mention Bretonnia disappears or something?

Why not, they took Kislev out into the field and shot it in the face. It's a pity the human factions were allowed to wither and fade, because the likes of the (non-Chaos) Norse, Kislev, Nippon and other minor nations, were wonderfully rich options for the human player, way back when. It was probably the popularity of these quasi-historical armies that led to the development of Warhammer Fantasy (which they also killed off of course).

[Vermis]

1. we are going to change WHFB completely. Just Because

Well, from what I hear, because WFB sales have tanked and knocked the game off the top five of some list or other I don't care about. Also to strip out the generic fantasy bits that they can't copyright, maybe. But... yeah. It's not much better. But it's not like they could do something like, I dunno, write better versions of their current rules or not charge goofy money for plastic models.

I mean, folks are leaving GW for the likes of Privateer Press... I assume those loyal to GW like the mass battle aspect of the game.

Nah. I've seen a few people rave about how great an alternative Kings of War is, in the face of these rumours. They either get no response or get a quick, snarky rebuttal. Some about the state of KoW models (can't blame them, TBH), but mostly about how it's 'not Warhammer'. I mean, the only way to have a good fantasy game with character is to have eleventeen special rules on every unit or character, and what sane person doesn't want to muck about with casualty removals when you've got about 200 minis on the table? Weirdos.

As far as I can tell, loyalty to WFB boils down to two things: ubiquity, meaning you can easily get a game, especially a pick-up game in a GW store (which is getting trickier with falling popularity of the game and store problems too) and 'support' of the game, which seems to mean 'release of new kits' as opposed to rules fixes and whatnot. So that apparently means what Alan Merrett said in the Chapterhouse court case is right: the GW hobby is buying GW products.

[Timbor]

Some of my local gaming folks are picking up KoW - I am supposed to play a game this weekend.  It does seem a bit of 'warhammer-lite', but as you mentioned, it is more streamlined and just the rules for playing an actual game without having five special rules per unit.

As someone with a full time job and family and rapidly fading hobby time, this is nothing but a good thing!  When I was 15 or something I probably would have thought differently... but then again, I probably spend more in 3 months of hobby purchases than I did in all my teenage years... go figure.

[Vermis]

Ninja edit above.

Some of my local gaming folks are picking up KoW - I am supposed to play a game this weekend.  It does seem a bit of 'warhammer-lite', but as you mentioned, it is more streamlined and just the rules for playing an actual game without having five special rules per unit.

As someone with a full time job and family and rapidly fading hobby time, this is nothing but a good thing!

I don't mind the break-point unit blocks in KoW too much, which is what I think is causing most of the cognitive dissonance in WFB fans; but there are a couple of little hiccups in the rules that mean I've also been mentioning Mayhem. I think it has a little more 'crunch' in a few little ways, and a little more tactical nous in the action points, polydice and command mechanics. But, if the WFB fans don't pay much attention to the KoW fans, imagine how much I get listened to on that game.

[Tactalvanic]

I agree with the reference  Vermis,

So that apparently means what Alan Merrett said in the Chapterhouse court case is right: the GW hobby is buying GW products.

That is their idea of the hobby we enjoy, There's the main difference, they will do, try, change, copy and whatever else they need to, to move their product and take as much from their customers as possible in each and every way.

 Oddly many of the manufacturers other than the aforementioned, with some exceptions, also primarily do what they do partially for profit, and er, fun - they enjoy what they do.

Don't get me wrong I am sure GW do enjoy what they do, which is gouge money out of a primarily small ranged target customer base, that is an age group rather than anything else.

Customer loyalty is not relevant. As they expect us to grow out of toy soldiers...

Yeah like thats going to happen 

I Only just grew back into them.

KoW has issues, but then all rulesets do, will see if their second edition resolves some of them.

And There are even  some threads here for battles using older rules, including Fantasy Warriors, they are great by the way. So we don't even need new rules to have fun with our soldiers.

Sadly though there is that big thing about getting enough people together to play something else, if anything.

But things change, I will sit back relax, and see what nonsense comes next 

[Momotaro]

Been saying since forever that both Wahammer lines need a range of games that allow you to start playing with the first box of troops you buy and let you build up from there.

As someone who has WFB models, but no investment in the game, this could be very interesting...  A smaller game, tight ruleset (GW can make them...), regular campaign updates for all armies.  But...

First, I have no faith in their pricing.  The reason I'm not a regular GW customer is that I won't pay £15 for an inch-tall plastic army man.  Offering me a different £15 army man won't change my mind    And really, it's the core of GW's problems, isn't it?  Over the years they've priced themselves into a "luxury" corner.

And second, the rest of the rumours are insane, to an old fool like me anyway.  Limited edition runs, dumping an entire line of old models, screwing about with basing...    This game could be great - as part of a coherent strategy to retain older customers and pull in new ones.  I just don't think they have the sense to think that way.

[Tactalvanic]

So sad that there is always such huge potential for something from them and its almost always wasted..

"Right what way is the wind blowing now? quick, piss everything into it and put the prices up"

The IP the back catalogue of miniatures, the "specialist games" and more, there is so much and its always wasted time and again, just so long as the accounts balance looks ok ish.

[YPU]

Not sure if anybody else was aware, but apparently there is a warhammer quest PC game out now?