The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Andrew Rae]

The galactic coordinates idea is my favourite.

RT03 squats were first featured in the September 87 flyer...

[Daeothar]

See I really want to like these Primaris Marines but they are just too damn clean cut and neat (Not the paint job but the sculpt) much like the Mk.7 but taken too the extreme.

I wish they looked more gritty like Mk.3, Hmmm I may have to do some helm and pad swaps with Mk.3 and see if that helps.

Actually, it's completely fluffy for them to be so cleancut.

Remember that during the Great Crusade, technology was on the rise and there was little of the gothic and grimdark we associate with 40K now. I remember reading that the Stormbird transport was a beautifully designed graceful and streamlined craft. Due to the many losses and expensive and lengthy manufacturing process, it was eventually replaced by the Thunderhawk; an ugly flying brick, all angles and functionality; nothing cleancut about it.

The subsequent Space Marine armor types reflect that, with the high(low?)light of the range being the Mk5 of course. And when Mks 6 and 7 were being deployed in numbers, the whole Imperial Cult was already (being) established, so the gothification of, well, everything had already begun. And this obviously included Space Marine armor.

So when Guilliman returns, his mind still firmly in the post Horus Heresy, a throwback to a pre-Heresy way of thinking is only natural. He wants to rekindle the Great Crusade, so having Marines that reflect this mindset is only to be expected...

Also; I remember the 3rd edition plastic multipart marines being released (and also the 2nd ed. mtetal Marines for that matter), and they were pretty cleancut too. Yes; there were bits to hang off belts etc, and the multipart aspect sparked a huge conversion wave, but in essence, they were pretty cleancut.

I can't say I really like the whole idea of Primaris Marines, but the fluff justification is alright, and the models themselves are cool. The only thing bugging me is that my 3 existing Space Marine armies are becoming obsolete (which is not an issue at all really, as I won't play 40K outside my group of friends anyway ).

But look at me; having an actual Space Marine rant, after being clean for almost 7 years...

[Chico]

Actually, it's completely fluffy for them to be so cleancut.

Remember that during the Great Crusade, technology was on the rise and there was little of the gothic and grimdark we associate with 40K now. I remember reading that the Stormbird transport was a beautifully designed graceful and streamlined craft.

The subsequent Space Marine armor types reflect that, with the high(low?)light of the range being the Mk5 of course. And when Mks 6 and 7 were being deployed in numbers, the whole Imperial Cult was already (being) established, so the gothification of, well, everything had already begun. And this obviously included Space Marine armor.

I think you have your Mk's mixed up a tad, Mk.2 Crusade armour and Mk.3  Iron Armour is rather gritty and boxy, these were the suits used for the Great Crusade.

Mk4 came just as the HH started and was the perfect suit (Fluff wise) but didn't  combine well with the earlier suits. Mk.5 is the bastardised  armour which were just thrown together during the Hersey (Again this was reconned at one point by GW, no idea if it still stands). Mk.6 Beakies for me is where everything started becoming too clean cut and less brutal looking.

As I said I wish the new Marines were in Mk.3  as that's the most gritty (Not once did I say grimdark though )

[Daeothar]

Trust me; I don't mix up my Armor marks...  

I never saw the Mk2 and 3 as 'gritty'. They were also clean during the Crusade (as in; no skulls, eagles, purity seals (obviously they did have oaths of Moment) or gothic elements, tabbards etc etc.)

Yes, they were segmented, but that's not the same as gritty. Everything during the Crusade was at the pinnacle of technological advancement, built for both function and aesthetics. Few would argue that Roman Lorica Segmenta armor was anything but cleancut for instance.

Mk5 I can actually see as 'gritty' because of the circumstances in which it was created; everything was falling apart and supplies and materials were scarce.

But (almost) everything before the Codex Astartes (on the loyalist side) IMHO is clean...

[Chico]

I never saw the Mk2 and 3 as 'gritty'. They were also clean during the Crusade (as in; no skulls, eagles, purity seals (obviously they did have oaths of Moment) or gothic elements, tabbards etc etc.)

All comes down to how you personally define the term gritty I guess, I feel Mk.2 and 3 are gritty as it's all rivets and exposed cables and wires, not many bells and whistles. Gritty to me isn't Grimdark or Gothic, just like to me Necromunda is gritty and not Grimdark (God I hate that word heh). Clean to me is smooth shapes and lines and everything covered up all prim and proper.

[Daeothar]

Yeah, I agree; it's all subjective and open to interpretation I guess.

When I read the first three installments in the Horus Heresy books, I got the distinct impression that the hight of the great Crusade was all shiny and glittering, the sky (galaxy) was the limit and humanity was reaching new heights of technological, artistic, social and military achievements.

And 'clean' suits of armor, as well as ships, planes, tanks, you name it, were part of that grand vision.

Mk1 was a relic from the reunification wars in the Sol system, developed from the suits that Terra's technobarbarians wore, so probably not as clean and tainted by the memory of the time that came before.

But the Mk2 armor, developed especially for the Legions sent out to bring the Emperor's light to the Galaxy; that was a symbol of hope and a bright future! It was notoriously difficult to repair and clean though, so I suppose that could contribute to it being 'gritty'.

Mk3 was created out of a practical consideration; more armor in the front, for close quarter fighting onboard ships and in the tunnels of Squat homeworlds. If anything, those extra plates on the front made it look decidedly cleaner of course; no more seperate bands of armor.

Mk4 was developed during this time and is considered to be the most sophisticated of armor types, and hence the most 'clean'. Although the fact that Horus had his (soon to be) traitor Legions supplied with them first does throw a bit of a shadow over that I feel. Still; it has always been my favorite, just edging ahead of the Mk6, mostly because of its cool helmet...

Now, Mk5, I consider to be a truly 'gritty' armor type. It was a stopgap measure; too few Mk4 suits were available to the Loyalist Legions (thanks to clever logistic planning by Horus), and the Mk6 and 7 wer  still in development and unavailable. So they used parts from any armor type available, and I understood that not two suits were exactly the same. It's full of 'Molecular Bonding Studs', to keep the layers of the armor plates together for lack of better (and lengthier) methods. And they were in a hurrry too. And considering the times of upheaval and decay into which it was born, I'd consider this to be the 'grittiest' of all marks.

M6 has always been pretty clean to me, mostly because of the RTB01 beakies, which had very little in the way of adornments, and whilst squating as if they had the extra spicy curry last night, the suits were looking very 'clean' and uncluttered. Much more so than the Rogue Trader Mk6 metal minis, which had all kinds of grittiness all over them. Still; the 2nd and 3rd ed metal adn plastic beakies were quite 'clean' as well. Only later on, from 5th edition and on, did they become more and more cluttered and grimdark.

Mk7; pretty much the same as Mk6, but substitute the RTB01 minis with Strike Force ones, and you're there.

And Mk8. Oh Mk8; why did we see so little of you? Still; the first two metal ones were pretty clean, reaching the same levels of technological advancement as the Mk4. And the one on the plastic sprues never was a real mk8, now was it? At least it was not cluttered into looking like a walking shrine, like its Mk6 and 7 compatriots...

Enter the Primaris; I give it to you; it's the 'cleanest' of all armors, and it certainly looks the part. But that only reinforces my idea that they're there to respark the light of the Great Crusade. Then again; their first vehicle just looks like a floating Rhino and Landraider hybrid; not 'clean' at all...

And maybe it's just because it's so tall, and that leaves more flat/blank areas of armor, instantly making it look 'cleaner' ?

So; where was I going with all of this? I sort of forgot; my long dormant and presumed dead Space Marine Fanboi Gland took over there for a bit, all cuddly and elaborating about Space Marine armor types. It feels wrong, but also, so right and liberating...

[Storm Wolf]

Thats why I like the new primaris jobbies, clean and uncluttered,  like it should be

now what chapter to do, can't decide

[Predatorpt]

Thats why I like the new primaris jobbies, clean and uncluttered,  like it should be

now what chapter to do, can't decide

Why not this one? http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102072.0

I know you suggested another name for the chapter but...

[Storm Wolf]

Why not this one? http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=102072.0

I know you suggested another name for the chapter but...

And some of my midget marines will be Lead Legion 

I have decided on the Vorpal Blades as my Primaris chapter name

Glen

[Predatorpt]

And some of my midget marines will be Lead Legion 

I have decided on the Vorpal Blades as my Primaris chapter name

Glen

Any connection to these guys? http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vorpal_Swords  When I was deciding on my Chapter, it was a draw between these and the Raptors (in the end, the Raptors won).

[Storm Wolf]

No connection as far as I know, but they will be catachan green with crossed bare cavalry sabres and will have the union flag on their armour somewhere, and as I wanted a UK connection vorpal as coined by Lewis Carroll was a good place to start as any

Herne's Hunters was another possibility

Thanks Glen

[von Lucky]

I'm guessing a Jabberwocky is their symbol.

[Storm Wolf]

I'm guessing a Jabberwocky is their symbol.

no, far beyond my painting or drawing skills unfortunately

but crossed bare cavalry sabres will be, hence the blades bit in the chapter name

G

[Kommando_J]

I had an odd idea for a space marine force, ive a few old rogue trader era space marines that i've never used due to scale but compared with primaris its not so bad...so was thinking the shattered remains of a chapter(represented by rogue trader era marines) reinforced by new primaris marines?

[Storm Wolf]

I had an odd idea for a space marine force, ive a few old rogue trader era space marines that i've never used due to scale but compared with primaris its not so bad...so was thinking the shattered remains of a chapter(represented by rogue trader era marines) reinforced by new primaris marines?

And I say go for it!