The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Major_Gilbear]

I've probably been overthinking the idea of filler bases, what with some truly amazing ones out there.

Yeah, some are very elaborate!

But even if you want something more themed, it can still be economical. Off the top of my head:

- A big pyre for Empire Flagellants
- A wave with a beach-themed tray for Dark Elf Corsairs or High Elf Lothern Sea Guard
- A mausoleum for Grave Guard
- An obelisk for Tomb Kings or High Elves
- A statue of a great hero for Empire
- A herdstone for Beastmen
- A tent or cart for Bretonnians
- Gnarly old trees for Wood Elves
- Totem stones for Orcs
- Giant mushrooms for Night/Forest Goblins

And many more I'm sure! The point is to theme the army in a way that's both economical and fun, and that's exactly why I think it's actually more individual than trying to convert or pose models in big regiments. Anyway, I hope it gives you some ideas.

[Connectamabob]

I had no idea what these filler things were, so I googled.

Oh wow. The arguing. Pages and pages and pages of going round and round and round and now I'm smelling colors and tasting vertigo. That... actually makes me kinda glad I don't do big army stuff, just so I wouldn't have to deal with that. From the outside it seems clearly a "no right answer" thing, but oh my... you can just sit out here on the porch with some lemonade all evening, listening to the salty winds rustling through the jimmies.

[Vermis]

I had no idea what these filler things were, so I googled.

Oh wow. The arguing. Pages and pages and pages of going round and round and round and now I'm smelling colors and tasting vertigo. That... actually makes me kinda glad I don't do big army stuff, just so I wouldn't have to deal with that. From the outside it seems clearly a "no right answer" thing, but oh my... you can just sit out here on the porch with some lemonade all evening, listening to the salty winds rustling through the jimmies.

I don't think it's a problem inherent to big army games. It's a more contentious issue for Warhammer - where every ambulatory wound marker in that 40-50-count unit has to matter; where scenic elements in a unit became 'controversial' because some donkey decided to introduce 'true line of sight'; and even where some players resent you and accuse you of insulting them and cheating (or at least 'not doing it right') because you didn't shell out just as much silly money as they did (i.e. the GW hobby, according to Alan Merrett) - than with most other, unit-footprint-based, diorama-encouraging mass battle games. Yup, like you've seen, there's an awful lot of debating about just what a unit filler in WFB is or should be, and what it should contain, usually a hefty chunk of terrain; but I'm reading this topic and feel like adding to Major Gilbear's (entirely valid) suggestions: 'just space the filler base minis out a bit'.

[Duncan McDane]

I Hope they will make it a skirmish game. I left them halfway 4th edition, tried again a few 6th edition games but the mass battles combined with their army compositions and modelling style made me turn away from them for good. Or so I thought, until the apparent reshuffling and the rumours about a new set-up.
I might get the new box, but of course will use my own models since they've lost me on theirs...

[Vanvlak]

Heh, wonder if Frank Herbert's estate can sue GW now 
Check their website, the pic with the SM commander.

[Drachenklinge]

Actually I would't mind silly rules or GW-sales-politics if only my dwarfs (the ones painted in red) would finally become the move-bonus they so rightfully deserve.  

[Vermis]

I Hope they will make it a skirmish game. I left them halfway 4th edition, tried again a few 6th edition games but the mass battles combined with their army compositions and modelling style made me turn away from them for good. Or so I thought, until the apparent reshuffling and the rumours about a new set-up.
I might get the new box, but of course will use my own models since they've lost me on theirs...

Gonna be honest, I am kinda interested to see what they do for a skirmish games, even if I'm not altogether optimistic.

Heh, wonder if Frank Herbert's estate can sue GW now 
Check their website, the pic with the SM commander.

Blimey, could you narrow it down a bit?

[Dr Mathias]

Heh, wonder if Frank Herbert's estate can sue GW now 
Check their website, the pic with the SM commander.

I'm curious which image you mean... quite a bit of 40K background is Dune inspired, obviously, but I don't recall any obviously direct visual evidence off the top of my head.

[Major_Gilbear]

I had no idea what these filler things were, so I googled.

Oh wow. The arguing. Pages and pages and pages of going round and round and round and now I'm smelling colors and tasting vertigo. That... actually makes me kinda glad I don't do big army stuff, just so I wouldn't have to deal with that. From the outside it seems clearly a "no right answer" thing, but oh my... you can just sit out here on the porch with some lemonade all evening, listening to the salty winds rustling through the jimmies.

Eh... It's only a big deal if you play with the sort of people who want the benefit of the doubt when it suits them, but won't extend it to you in the same game when it doesn't. These are also often the same sort of people who argue over every rule to eke an advantage, and do so because they think it demonstrates how good they are playing the game. (Not to be confused with the folks who build strong/cheesy armies, although there is obviously a reasonable overlap between the two).

The main thing to remember when using unit fillers is they they just represent the same troops as the unit they're in. I also note that you are only likely to use these in big units (25+ models usually), and that they generally equate to a full rank's worth of models on average; since large units mostly gain from being hard to wear down rather then any real combat benefits, it's not unusual for them to have a rank or two stripped off by the time they make it into combat. In these cases, just take the filler out when such a loss occurs and add back in single model or two as needed to make up the correct number again.

An alternative is to use fillers on single bases. For example: gravestones can be used to pad out any Undead regiment, and shrubs or sprites for any Wood Elf unit. This way, the bases are not an issue for things like templates, and models can be swapped around within the unit to solve any tricky LOS issues. These are also useful if you have a regiment whose models are difficult to rank up, such as those holding halberds across their chests for instance.

With regard to the "legality" in game terms of base fillers, I would like to point out that GW used (back in 6E, at least) to supply bases that were 1 x 4 models in footprint in various basic regiment boxes. The idea was to make it easier and faster to deploy models and remove casualties from big units, and also to assist with ranking up awkward models. It didn't take long before there were examples in WD of players and staff who'd used these to make little vignettes within their regiments. So it's as "official" as anything else really, and many enterprising players used these bases to spread out the models a bit and make each box go further in terms of making a big regiment. <shrug>

I'm curious which image you mean... quite a bit of 40K background is Dune inspired, obviously, but I don't recall any obviously direct visual evidence off the top of my head.

He means the quote "Minds are the fear-killer", which is a spin of FH's "Fear is the mind-killer".

[Dr Mathias]

He means the quote "Minds are the fear-killer", which is a spin of FH's "Fear is the mind-killer".

Heh heh, yep, I just saw that and headed back here

[Major_Gilbear]

I mean, it's not a good as FH's version, but I guess it was meant to be a "reference joke"* rather than something pithy in its own right.


*These are "jokes" that aren't funny, and merely just references to something else instead. I notice these substituted for actual humor more and more these days, and assume it's an extention of internet meme humour...

[Vanvlak]

I mean, it's not a good as FH's version, but I guess it was meant to be a "reference joke"* rather than something pithy in its own right.


*These are "jokes" that aren't funny, and merely just references to something else instead. I notice these substituted for actual humor more and more these days, and assume it's an extention of internet meme humour...

Well spotted 
And that's the problem - if it were not intended seriously it would be fine, but the grimdark universe seems to have lost its sense of fun, and that makes the paraprasing unimaginative instead of clever Then again - I might be doing the same overthinking this!

[Dr Mathias]

I think the tweaked phrase could have just as easily been a 'Thought for the Day' in the Rogue Trader rulebook.

[weismonsters]

"Victory does not always rest with the big guns, but if we rest in front of them, we will be lost."

On that i think we can all agree.

"Minds are the fear killer" sounds altogether more questionable.

[Skyven]

I've been somewhat pleased with the announcement of AoS. Having items go oop is a great impetus to finally getting hold of them.

What I don't understand is the sense from some Warhammer players that this is the end of the game they enjoy -- is there some reason they think that they will no longer be able to play version 8? Or is this down to it no longer being allowed in GW shop games?