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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Legiocustodes on 13 May 2017, 10:16:43 PM

Title: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 13 May 2017, 10:16:43 PM: As some of you have already guessed I am the author of the up-and-coming Crusade Era skirmish game from Osprey entitled Outremer: Faith and Blood, which has just gone on pre-order on Amazon. Whilst I can't say too much about the game just yet I would like to show you some models that I have painted up for playing it. These guys are Military Order warriors from the Templars and Hospitallers and have been fighting as a warband in my play tests.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b6dgpIqsPvc/WRdWOEyhO_I/AAAAAAAAC3c/341vniHgD5M3WlHJ0soameqxpT77iAJHgCHM/s640/blogger-image-142650815.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JU60mey11Ug/WRdmZzE0EII/AAAAAAAAC3s/pgB3NgUsOBgWmhRpeJ_HzSJsNbAtHjYsgCHM/s640/blogger-image--645773492.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XDIt8KLCq2U/WRdmg40WRtI/AAAAAAAAC3w/JwJIAHpg4N8pUZ2sOU1Ofvhxp4JM3VbVgCHM/s640/blogger-image--463265093.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QdlS3HPtLp0/WRdmmKnruYI/AAAAAAAAC34/IwIvwyFCw6gGFQien0oD_NrOIqJwha-ngCHM/s640/blogger-image--821370600.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-voiOq8IhE20/WRdmootzFrI/AAAAAAAAC38/IITSyjBU46U6t_3N45f8zHbW4ThS0GXggCHM/s640/blogger-image--1035016832.jpg)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hqaDxrauYHY/WRdmjlrdN0I/AAAAAAAAC30/DuOFNcwa3i08pX8VSYNYGIxhpvLPUetHgCHM/s640/blogger-image--1642544810.jpg)

These guys were a real joy to paint, I find the mix of black and white models breaks the potential monotony of painting.

The models themselves are a mix of Fireforge; Essex and Perry miniatures. I have deliberately painted them to look like the artwork from the front cover of my book as it's such a great piece of art that Osprey have commissioned for me.

There's a bit more info on my blog at:
https://classicastartes.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/templars-hospitallers-and-outremer.html (https://classicastartes.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/templars-hospitallers-and-outremer.html)

I'll be working on some Saracen fighters next....
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Plynkes on 13 May 2017, 10:24:47 PM: They're bloomin' lovely. Top drawer.

Those Osprey war games just keep on coming, don't they? I had no idea this one was even in the works. Too many for me to keep track of. Not complaining, mind.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 13 May 2017, 10:33:38 PM: Thanks mate they were a labour of love for me, I either painted them in pairs or individually so I could spent more time on them. It's the joy of a Warband size game; one can lavish suitable attention on each of the fighters.

Yeah Osprey have a steady pace of production for new games but like you say I don't think it's a bad thing; I've never been so spoiled for choice and even niche interests get their own 'mainstream' books.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Duncan McDane on 13 May 2017, 11:54:55 PM: Skirmish games in the Crusades setting. What's not to like? :D
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Harry Faversham on 14 May 2017, 02:16:54 AM: :-* If the rules are as good as the figures you're onto a winner! :-*
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Sunjester on 14 May 2017, 08:06:20 AM: Oh No, not another Osprey ruleset to to distract me! lol

Like Plynkes, I had not heard about these. At least I won't have to paint more figures for it, I've already got big armies for playing Soldiers of God.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: FierceKitty on 14 May 2017, 08:49:16 AM: Quote from: Duncan McDane on 13 May 2017, 11:54:55 PM
Skirmish games in the Crusades setting. What's not to like? :D

Lack of massed armies!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 14 May 2017, 09:00:00 AM: Cheers guys;

I'm glad you like the models, I have to say painting white robes can be a bit of daunting task at first, but after a while it becomes easier. Foundy's Artic Grey A,B and C are a godsend for white!

Yeah there is indeed a lack of massed armies for which I make no apologies; I have always been a skirmish player at heart and I have made a game that my peers and I would like to play. The good news is there are plenty of other large scale battle games out there to tickle that particular interest, so not all is lost.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Anderson Collection on 14 May 2017, 10:12:50 AM: Top work :-*
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Duncan McDane on 14 May 2017, 10:36:34 AM: Quote from: FierceKitty on 14 May 2017, 08:49:16 AM
Lack of massed armies!

I'm more of a skirmish-man myself, Khun Meaow ;).
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: henryv on 14 May 2017, 10:07:19 PM: Very nice Brothers.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: marcusluis on 15 May 2017, 12:41:59 AM: Which crusade will it be covering?
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 15 May 2017, 05:52:17 AM: I've predominantly focussed on the first - third crusade in my
Playtestmg but it can be used for the later Crusader period too.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: has.been on 15 May 2017, 07:12:02 AM: Figures look excellent! Will it do well? "Deus Vult" (As God wills it, a Crusade chant)
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Raff the Sweetling on 15 May 2017, 03:45:05 PM: The guys look damn good. For my taste they should be a little bit dirtier. But definitely already already damn good work, thanks for show. A real inspiration
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: NurgleHH on 15 May 2017, 04:03:07 PM: Quote from: has.been on 15 May 2017, 07:12:02 AM
Figures look excellent! Will it do well? "Deus Vult" (As God wills it, a Crusade chant)
To be correct it is: "Deus lo vult". ;)
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: has.been on 15 May 2017, 09:40:28 PM: To be correct it is: "Deus lo vult"

I did wonder why all the other Crusaders laughed when I said it.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: NurgleHH on 15 May 2017, 10:04:17 PM: Quote from: has.been on 15 May 2017, 09:40:28 PM
To be correct it is: "Deus lo vult"

I did wonder why all the other Crusaders laughed when I said it.
And they let you sign all these papers with three crosses, right? lol
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Inkpaduta on 16 May 2017, 12:02:55 AM: Will it be like Lion Rampant where skirmish is defined as a handful of units built by points
or skirmish in the sense of each figure equals one man and they fight as individuals not units?
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 16 May 2017, 07:13:22 AM: Morning All;

Can't say too much; but here are a few bits:

It will be a Warband size game for between 4-14 models; if that's not your thing then that's cool, by a lot of people enjoy this size of game....including me. Don't get me wrong I enjoy a massed battle as much as the next man but I far prefer smaller games where each individual is a key player rather than just a glorified wound marker for his formation. It's not everyone's cup of tea; but that's the great thing about the hobby; there is so much variety.... if you want massed battles play sword point; if you want space marines play Warhammer 40k and if you want Navy SEALS play Black Ops.

It will completely different to and on a much smaller scale than Lion Rampant; in Outremer each model will represent an individual bespoke fighter and no two warriors will be alike.

As for the models.... yeah I agree they could be dirtiter but I just couldn't bring myself to weather the cloaks after so many layers of white paint! :-)
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: CaptainHaddonCollider on 16 May 2017, 07:55:50 AM: I have to ask: does the two monks serve a propose in the rules, other than just stranding by and looking awesome? I have a few perry-monks myself, and love the miniatures, but somehow they always end up on the spectator seats when we play LR or Hail Caesar. Will Outremer have rules for clergy?
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 16 May 2017, 08:10:59 AM: The clergy definitely have a role in the game... and while they may not be awesome fighters themselves they do bringing other benefits to your force that are very useful!!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: CaptainHaddonCollider on 16 May 2017, 08:56:35 AM: Quote from: Legiocustodes on 16 May 2017, 08:10:59 AM
The clergy definitely have a role in the game... and while they may not be awesome fighters themselves they do bringing other benefits to your force that are very useful!!

:D :D :D sounds good, consider me sold
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: NurgleHH on 16 May 2017, 10:39:40 AM: I have to ask: Please explain to me, why I should buy your rules, when I have Open Combat, Saga and Brink Of Battle? Do you use an existing engine or will your game use something designed by yourself?
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 16 May 2017, 11:01:02 AM: All good games! I'm not going to strong arm anyone into buying my game; that's not my style. Suffice to say it's my own system not based on any other engine. I believe Outremer does offer a more structured campaign system for developing your Warband over time and seeing your fighters grow as they gain experience than many other systems. I'll release more information nearer the time as that wasn't the original purpose of this thread and I don't want to go too far off tangent!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: has.been on 16 May 2017, 07:52:34 PM: And they let you sign all these papers with three crosses, right?

Sign? Sign!!!! Do I look like a priest or monk? I sir do not have to write, I am a Noble!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Dalcor on 16 May 2017, 09:29:07 PM: Well, I am in! Hope you will be able to reveal more soon. As I always wanted to play with Order of St. John with small skirmish, as I do not have the time or money to invest into another big army for LR/DR/PL/TMWWBK :-D

So I will have Outremer for Crusades and En Garde for Siege of Malta (as soon as there will be any models available).
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Inkpaduta on 17 May 2017, 02:23:51 AM: That sounds good to me. I have never cared for someone calling a set of rules skirmish
then saying you need this many units of 10-20 figures to play it. So, I am interested.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Maxromek on 17 May 2017, 11:08:19 AM: Minis look great!

Also, will there by Byzantines in the rules?

As a 12th century re-enactor this really tickles my fancy :D
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: FierceKitty on 17 May 2017, 12:44:41 PM: Quote from: Duncan McDane on 14 May 2017, 10:36:34 AM
I'm more of a skirmish-man myself, Khun Meaow ;).

The world is big enough for both of us.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 18 May 2017, 12:53:43 PM: I completely agree 3-20 models is a skirmish game for me; 20-60 is a small battle; 60+ is a large battle and 120 + makes me have a nervous breakdown ;)

The exact forces in the book aren't solidified yet; however my plan is to try and release additional factions afterwards for free. Overall I'm hoping that there will be something for everyone who enjoys a good skirmish!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Maxromek on 18 May 2017, 02:29:10 PM: So Byzantines are a chance then :D

That sounds excellent, really looking forward to the book now! Even started painting some Normans and Crusaders I had stashed away :D
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 18 May 2017, 03:17:43 PM: Excellent; I love the Norman look for early crusaders; it really gives you loads of ranges to choose from. I have some from Conquest; Gripping Beast; Perry and a load of other companies for mix and matching.

What company are yours from; I'd love to see some photos when they're done!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Maxromek on 18 May 2017, 03:29:47 PM: You may have to wait for a while now, I finished my Masters and am in a process of moving flats and then going home to Poland for the Summer :D

Mine are mostly Black Tree Design. I really like them and when you can get them for 50% off they are super cheap. Less than a pound per model! The sculpting is pretty good and the proportions are good as well. The design may be a bit anachronistic compared to our current knowledge of the arms and armour used back in those days, but isn't too much of a deal. BTD does have some really cool looking Normans though, there's a chap with an eagle/hawk that is absolutely amazing!

I have some Conquest cavalry as well, which await some minor tweaks and conversions (I don't like how the heads and necks just stick out from the body).
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 18 May 2017, 03:52:02 PM: Hmmmm i haven't used Black Tree design... I might be about to go on their website and blow some money!!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 18 May 2017, 04:05:58 PM: .... I can confirm I have just spent a considerable whack on there; and footsore miniatures too!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: axabrax on 19 May 2017, 02:38:22 PM: This looks interesting. I'm not fervent enough about the Crusades to want to buy and paint 30+ figs, and if I did want to do that I would probably just play Saga. Something sort of like Mordheim in the Crusades era sounds good though. I'm hoping that you manage to weave religion into the campaign rules for flavor. The "bespoke" profiles sound good too.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Breazer on 19 May 2017, 03:41:43 PM: I'm very curious to see what this will look like. I like the look of your warband a lot btw.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 21 May 2017, 11:25:10 AM: Hi Guys;

For those of you who've PM'd me I'll try and get back to you soon; I'm tucked up with my day job at the moment (it has a nasty habit of getting in the way of hobby time).

If you like small Warband games with a focus on character development like mordhiem then this should be right up your alley!!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 21 May 2017, 10:03:36 PM: Ive managed to do another two Hospitallers for this force: a brother-sergeant with a crossbow and a brother-knight with a mace and shield:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_ZHiOox2z98/WSHttMrungI/AAAAAAAAC40/Rme9P1J44j08wv9YxZLd5QAdPuaWNbZvQCHM/s640/blogger-image-1027918395.jpg)
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Dalcor on 21 May 2017, 10:09:40 PM: Very nice
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 21 May 2017, 10:16:01 PM: Cheers mate! I have to say the hand-painted cross on the shield was an emotional experience!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Maxromek on 21 May 2017, 10:18:41 PM: Awesome!

Yeah, I used to play Black Templars in 40k... those Maltese crosses were a nightmare!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 21 May 2017, 10:20:07 PM: Thanks mate! Yeah as an ex-Black Templar player myself I know what you mean! Praise be to the Emperor for sculpted shoulder pads!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Dalcor on 23 May 2017, 11:59:15 AM: To be honest, I am not sure what armies we will purchase but we need to have some adversaries approach the club.

I like the Knight Hospitallers though, and that will be where I will start to build and army for Outremer. However as we do not know how the rules will looks like regarding construction of the warband, its very hard what and how

However I despise metal models so where there will be plastic option I am going for plastic.

Also not sure which period will be sipported. I would like to go for Fireforge Templars as Brother-Knights-At-Arms and Brother-Sergeants-At-Arms.

For Arab I will do some Nizari Izmails and there I have to look for option. Definetely "Saracen Assassin" sold by Navigator Miniatures and then preferebly plastics from GB or metals from any company I found pleasant to the eye.

Very important questions. Are horses and camels involved? I know its small skirmish, but without horse in Holy Land you were death.
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: axabrax on 23 May 2017, 05:51:38 PM: +1

Good rules for mounted combat will be vital. I see this and coming up with a balanced campaign system as the two toughest challenges for this project.

"Very important questions. Are horses and camels involved? I know its small skirmish, but without horse in Holy Land you were death."
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Dalcor on 24 May 2017, 09:52:15 AM: Quote from: Legiocustodes on 21 May 2017, 10:16:01 PM
Cheers mate! I have to say the hand-painted cross on the shield was an emotional experience!
I painted crosses freehandely on my Infinity Knight Hospitallers. I am looking forward to renew this experience with Outremer :-D
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 24 May 2017, 04:01:12 PM: Hi all!

I can confirm there will be rules for mounted models, though horses will be expensive so don't expect to see loads in a warband.

As for the crosses, I have to say they do become easier after the first one!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Fenrir on 16 June 2017, 08:22:26 AM: I will definitely be pre-ordering this! Sounds like just my kind of game, and I've been wanting an excuse to paint up some plastic Gripping Beast Arabs for a while now!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Carnyx on 17 June 2017, 01:16:44 AM: Hello Legiocustodes,

I will most certainly pick up the rules, love the period in any scale. Your figures look fantastic, cheers!

Will the rules allow for multiple players, we often play with 4 or more players in teams?

Regards,
Carnyx
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 17 June 2017, 09:08:12 AM: Hello mate!

Thanks for the kind words. Yep multiple
Play for up to 4 warbands at a time is included!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Carnyx on 17 June 2017, 07:06:46 PM: Great news, look forward to getting my copy. Ordered through Chapters/Indigo. :D
Carnyx
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 28 June 2017, 09:56:54 AM: Pleased to hear it mate!! I think you'll really enjoy it!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: ayak333 on 13 July 2017, 01:40:20 AM: Definitely got interest here! How would you compare the rules to Blood Eagle and the like? I know you wrote 10-14 models per side, Blood Eagle runs about 5-8 which I found to be low for my taste, but I only played it once and the Blood eagle rules seem so flavorful. Either Way, Im excited for your rules. Any chance the setting will go beyond Outremer, toward the Baltic?
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 24 July 2017, 02:15:46 AM: Two different games, but if you like small character driven skirmishes then you'll like Outremer! I definitely have plans to expand the game into other Crusade era settings such as the Baltic Crusades!!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 24 July 2017, 05:47:37 PM: There are plenty of rules out there for larger style games if that's you're thing, I personally wanted a small skirmish/warband game for this period and couldn't find any I liked hence why I wrote these and to be fair they scratched that niche for me. Each to their own.

The maximum for a warband as written is 13 models per side on the table, but there is a way in which you could field up to 26. I'll be trying to get some in game shots at some point, but the trouble is when I'm playing I forget to take photos! I usually remember just after we've packed up! lol
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on 25 July 2017, 12:41:52 PM: Legiocustodes

How well can be adapted to other areas? I have been trying to find an excuse to collect Spanish Christians and Almohades and your rules looks like the perfect excuse to do it!
Title: Re: Outremer: Faith and Blood - MILITARY ORDER KNIGHTS
Post by: Legiocustodes on 25 July 2017, 07:42:39 PM: It's very flexible; the initial rules will easily cope with your needs and allow you to build those forces. But I'm hoping to expand the game later on with theatre specific lists which would make it even more bespoke!