Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: MagpieJono on 30 May 2017, 09:26:40 AM
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Has anyone had any issues recently with the standard black paint from Coat D'arms?
I ordered two pots on my last order and both seem to have metalic flecks in them.
This hasn't been a problem I've had before so I'm wondering if it's a duff batch rather than a change in the recipe...
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I haven't bought coat d'arms black in a long while, but the last few bottles I had all dried shiny so I switched to Vallejo since that was easier to come by anyway
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Bought some at Carronade and it is fine. Sounds like a bad batch. Used them since they were Citadel!
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Only problem I have with coat d'arms is getting hold of them, a lot of the online traders no longer stock them, not sure why.
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Only problem I have with coat d'arms is getting hold of them, a lot of the online traders no longer stock them, not sure why.
Colonel Bill has them
http://shop.colonelbills-store.co.uk/epages/4f27da57-42ee-48c0-9cb8-22c9dd921a68.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/4f27da57-42ee-48c0-9cb8-22c9dd921a68/Categories/Coat_dArms_Paints (http://shop.colonelbills-store.co.uk/epages/4f27da57-42ee-48c0-9cb8-22c9dd921a68.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/4f27da57-42ee-48c0-9cb8-22c9dd921a68/Categories/Coat_dArms_Paints)
And Black Hat Games
https://www.blackhat.co.uk/product-category/coat-darms-paints/ (https://www.blackhat.co.uk/product-category/coat-darms-paints/)
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Stopped using Coat D'arms paints many years ago because they always dried shiny. Not a fan I'm afraid.
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Don't often get to say this, but I think you're doing something wrong there then Cap... ;)
I love 'em -- apart from the light browns, obviously. Don't recall any going shiny.
Is it down to thinning maybe? Your painting style looks like you thin the paints a lot and use several coats, whereas I'm lazy and norty and I often paint straight from the bottle so I don't have to.
I also run the bottles on a vortex mixer before use..
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I use some CDA. They definitely do NOT dry matt. But then, P3 don't and neither do Foundry. I don't mind too much as I varnish all of my figures so they are matt in the end.
I often use the white and the black "triads", but only for ease, as I can make up my own from other manufacturers.
I find their paints very thin, but that suits my style.
I mix them with paints from other makers - but then I do that with all of them.
Their "Leather" Triad - I rarely use anything else for, er, leather. ::)
Steve Dean arranged their triads.
I've never had the problem of metallic flecks - but I haven't bought any for years. I'd just contact the seller.
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A drop of Tamiya Flat Base sorts out the shine.
Don't use much CDA/Foundry/P3 these days - black and white mostly - but one advantage I find they have over Vallejo is that they're much more hard wearing.
Not had an issue with metallic flakes either.
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I use P3 paints, which are manufactured by the same company (HMG Paints in Manchester), and are designed to basically be a more up-to-date version of the old Citadel Colour range.
They do have a low satin sheen to them, but adding a little matte medium and water to them on the palette fixes this. Besides, I always put the paint on my palette and water it a little, so adding a dab of medium whilst I'm at it is trivial.
Failing that, I suggest a matt sealer at the end (or a glaze of clean water with a touch of matte medium in it) to kill any shine.
Now, all that said, if you bought plain black and have a problem with contamination (i.e., metallic flakes in the black), I would suggest going back to the store with a photo and a polite email to request a replacement. I would also suggest making a note of the batch (if there is one) in your email to the store so that the rest can be checked too.
Personally, whilst I have had a few paint do odd things over prolonged periods (sediment/flocculation normally), I have never ever had an issue with metallic flakes in regular flat paint.
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Well, it's been several years, but I bought several different colours and they were all irredeemably shiny when dry. Not high gloss, I accept, but rather more than a low satin sheen in my book. If you're a detail painter like me, the last thing you want is shiny paint. It just makes it too difficult to see what you're doing because of the light reflecting off the surface.
I do appreciate some matte medium would probably sort it out, but - call me old-fashioned - why should I have to faff about like that? If someone sells me a pot of paint labelled matt, flat or flat matt, that's what I expect to get. Not a semi-shiny finish. Its basically a breach of the Trades Descriptions Act. If Vallejo, GW and most 'craft' acrylic makers can manage to make their matt paints truly matt, why can't everybody?
Anyway. I binned them long ago. Sorry to be a stick-in-the-mud, but nothing is going to make me recommend a product which doesn't do what it says on the tin. Unless they've fixed their recipes in the last few years, I wouldn't touch Coat D'Arms paints with a bargepole.
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Thanks for all the replies. From my point of view I've never had an issue with Coat D'arms myself and haven't noticed them being particularly shiny when dry.
There's definitely something not right with the black though. Think I'll email Black Hat.
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If someone sells me a pot of paint labelled matt, flat or flat matt, that's what I expect to get.
Don't know if it's recent or not but the paints aren't labelled as matt and the railmatch paints I use that are also made by hmg are the same.
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There's no standardized definition of paint sheen terms. For some manufacturers, "matt" (or "matte") is synonymous with dead flat. For others, matt and flat are different, matt being slightly shinier. This is exacerbated by different pigments reflecting light in different ways, so even if you use the same techniques with two different pigments, you might get a different level of shine.
Managing that to get the effect you want is part of the job of the painter.
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There are international and EU standards for the terms Matt, Gloss and satin, they are in % terms too, so if they fit the band they can use the term. The paints industry has been regulated for a long while, as its part of a very very big business they all work as best to conform to a standard.
As others have said, get back to them as it could be a duff batch and even on a recall. There should be a batch number ref somewhere. I can guarantee they would want to know and if possible try to rectify the issue.
Had a number of occasions Ive had problems and always been stisfied with wither the shop, wholesaler and makers.
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Interesting. I haven't found such standards and have found many places that say that such standards do not exist. Could you please point me to where I can find them?
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Hi
If you have a problem with a pot of Coat D'arms paint then please let the retailer that you purchased it from know and they can contact me. Unless you bought it direct, of course.
The paints are NOT and have NEVER been labelled as matt (apart from Matt Varnish). CDA, Foundry and P3 are all made from the same LMP base (developed for a hobby supplier in the 1970s) and differ just in colours, they have a very slight sheen which is reduced if you mix them with water and eliminated if you use a flat base.
Hope that helps
Mike
Coat D'arms / Black Hat Miniatures
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Thanks for the clarification. What's LMP?
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Thanks for the clarification. What's LMP?
The original company it was developed for - something like Leicester Model Products...
Mike
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I do appreciate some matte medium would probably sort it out, but - call me old-fashioned - why should I have to faff about like that? If someone sells me a pot of paint labelled matt, flat or flat matt, that's what I expect to get. Not a semi-shiny finish. Its basically a breach of the Trades Descriptions Act. If Vallejo, GW and most 'craft' acrylic makers can manage to make their matt paints truly matt, why can't everybody?
Indeed. A long history of trial and error has left me with a rather select list of purveyors of matt paint. It takes quite a lot for an untested company to get in on that list. Reaper, Vallejo, Andrea, GW and Iron Wind have made it, I have a few pots of Humbrol acrylics to but they have issues with the medium so they sediment and cake horribly fast.
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The paints are NOT and have NEVER been labelled as matt (apart from Matt Varnish). CDA, Foundry and P3 are all made from the same LMP base (developed for a hobby supplier in the 1970s) and differ just in colours, they have a very slight sheen which is reduced if you mix them with water and eliminated if you use a flat base.
Thanks Mike. And fair enough in that case. Obviously since the pots didn't specify gloss, I clearly made the mistaken assumption that they were matt.
Only because most manufacturers DO label their paints gloss / matt / satin - so my erroneous assumption was that the default position for model / hobby paints would be matt unless otherwise specified.
But it sounds like there's quite a subset of people out there who like using semi-shiny paint from CD'A, P3, Foundry etc.
Can't for the life of me imagine why, but there you go. You pays your money etc... :)
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Hi
If you have a problem with a pot of Coat D'arms paint then please let the retailer that you purchased it from know and they can contact me. Unless you bought it direct, of course.
The paints are NOT and have NEVER been labelled as matt (apart from Matt Varnish). CDA, Foundry and P3 are all made from the same LMP base (developed for a hobby supplier in the 1970s) and differ just in colours, they have a very slight sheen which is reduced if you mix them with water and eliminated if you use a flat base.
Hope that helps
Mike
Coat D'arms / Black Hat Miniatures
Mike
Thanks for this. I did buy them from Black Hat.