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Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: Grimm on March 22, 2009, 09:28:50 PM

Title: US Doughboy Help ! more pic.!!
Post by: Grimm on March 22, 2009, 09:28:50 PM
Hi All
I stard my TaT Us Army for ww1 in the next two weeks but I allready need some informations 
so my first question is
Are these Books a good stard for some background knowledge ?
Did someone have these books ?

osprey
The US Army of World War I (Men-At-Arms Osprey)    
Us Doughboy 1916-19 (Warrior)

next question and very important !!(I think I ask that again ?!?)
Have someone painted Us ww1 Figures and wich color do you use ?
best where from Vallejo colors for me (Number and Name )

Thanks a lot for your help

Grimm
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: Calimero on March 22, 2009, 10:05:58 PM
Maybe this might help you...

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=6953.msg77169#msg77169  8)
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: Helen on March 22, 2009, 11:04:17 PM
Hi Grimm,

I've the books, but I've not started painting the remainder of my US forces. I also use my Men @ Arms "US Marine Corps in WW1 1917-1918" in addition. Why? because they are a number of plates in the US Army uniforms an it shows a better hue for colour.

There is certainly a contrast in colours from both books based on the artist intpretation. Myself, I'd go for  the Men @ Arms title as this is closer in my mind to the US Army colours alongside the marine title.

Colours I've work with as an example:

I personally find VMC Military green (70925) or Russian Green (70894) far better than Reflective green (70890) and please don't ask me why.

German Cam Medium Brown (70826), Yellow Green (70881), Khaki (70988), Dark Sand (70847), Tan Yellow (70912), Russian Uniform (70924), GW Graveyeard Earth, Khaki Grey (70880) and German C Beige[70821 (mixed)] for webbing (more on the former).

Looking at all my various references an illustrators, not two are alike with their coloured illustrations.

For my US Marines in AEF uniform I'm going for a mix of colours as stated above.

I'm sorry, I can not be of more assistance until I start painting this area in question; however Mike H from Musketeer miniatures fame provided me with a link to a colour convertor:

http://colors.silicon-dragons.com/full_line.php


Good luck and keep us posted.

Helen
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: Doc Twilight on March 23, 2009, 01:19:57 AM
Helen -

Don't suppose you'd have a guess at how the Harlem Hellfighters might vary? I suspect the helmet would be dark green. Would anything else differ in color from the standard kit?

-Doc
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: Helen on March 23, 2009, 01:39:44 AM
Helen -

Don't suppose you'd have a guess at how the Harlem Hellfighters might vary? I suspect the helmet would be dark green. Would anything else differ in color from the standard kit?

-Doc


Hi Doc,

Thanks, I'm no expert on this really. The books I've show these guys both in Adrian and Dishpan helmets, but in the olive green outfits. The Adrian was supposely used in training and followed up by the Dishpan for combat, but I'd go with both especiialy if you are using Brigade Games which incidently, needs soem additional codes.

Looking at the uniform, I'd look at Russian Green, followed by this colour plus more Russian uniform. I'd then use Russian uniform plus a Tan colour, Iraqi sand or Dark Sand. One VMC that I've been using on my Turks is Green Ochre with English uniform an I think this may work in with the other greens as a shade colour.

When I get through some of my painting stack I'll give it a try on my US Marines in AEF uniform.

Helen
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: archangel1 on March 23, 2009, 01:43:48 AM
Helen -

Don't suppose you'd have a guess at how the Harlem Hellfighters might vary? I suspect the helmet would be dark green. Would anything else differ in color from the standard kit?

-Doc


Obviously not Helen, but I think I can help.  :D  The 369th, under French command, was issued Adrian helmets and French equipment, worn over American uniform.  The helmets were apparently dull blue-gray with a brown leather chinstrap.  Cartridge pouches, belts and bayonet frog were brown leather, haversack is light brown cloth, water bottle is covered in horizon blue cloth with enamelled mug and the gasmask canister is painted khaki.  The US uniform tended towards a browner shade of olive drab.  Leggings were canvas-coloured and boots were brown leather.  The rifles should be Berthiers.

A good reference to look out for is 'World War I Infantry in Colour Photographs' by Laurent Mirouze.  It's 'Europa Militaria N°3' from Windrow & Greene Publishing.  ISBN 1-872004-25-3
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: Grimm on March 23, 2009, 06:14:33 PM
thank you all you will see the figures soon  :D :-*

Cheers Grimm
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: Doc Twilight on March 23, 2009, 08:56:19 PM
Helen -

Don't suppose you'd have a guess at how the Harlem Hellfighters might vary? I suspect the helmet would be dark green. Would anything else differ in color from the standard kit?

-Doc


Thanks much, Archangel. That's a huge help.

Perhaps, being Canadian, you can help me with one other question.

I've often seen a series of photographs identified as Black Canadian troops. Any idea who these guys might be? On that note, why don't I see photos of Black Canadian troops in WW2?

-Doc


Obviously not Helen, but I think I can help.  :D  The 369th, under French command, was issued Adrian helmets and French equipment, worn over American uniform.  The helmets were apparently dull blue-gray with a brown leather chinstrap.  Cartridge pouches, belts and bayonet frog were brown leather, haversack is light brown cloth, water bottle is covered in horizon blue cloth with enamelled mug and the gasmask canister is painted khaki.  The US uniform tended towards a browner shade of olive drab.  Leggings were canvas-coloured and boots were brown leather.  The rifles should be Berthiers.

A good reference to look out for is 'World War I Infantry in Colour Photographs' by Laurent Mirouze.  It's 'Europa Militaria N°3' from Windrow & Greene Publishing.  ISBN 1-872004-25-3
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: archangel1 on March 23, 2009, 10:14:34 PM
Grimm,

Check your email.  Let me know if you get it.

Mike

Edit - Sorry, wrong Grimm!
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: Calimero on March 23, 2009, 10:20:05 PM

Wasn’t the Canadian infantry mixed regiments? (black and white serving in the same units?)
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: archangel1 on March 23, 2009, 10:32:24 PM

Wasn’t the Canadian infantry mixed regiments? (black and white serving in the same units?)

I think you're right.  What little I found online, in a brief look, seems to indicate that, once they were finally 'allowed' (nice, huh?  ::) ) to enlist, they fought alongside white soldiers, rather than being segregated.  It's a pity there isn't more information available.  It could be a fascinating story.
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help !
Post by: Doc Twilight on April 06, 2009, 02:48:20 AM
Helen -

Don't suppose you'd have a guess at how the Harlem Hellfighters might vary? I suspect the helmet would be dark green. Would anything else differ in color from the standard kit?

-Doc


Hi Doc,

Thanks, I'm no expert on this really. The books I've show these guys both in Adrian and Dishpan helmets, but in the olive green outfits. The Adrian was supposely used in training and followed up by the Dishpan for combat, but I'd go with both especiialy if you are using Brigade Games which incidently, needs soem additional codes.

Looking at the uniform, I'd look at Russian Green, followed by this colour plus more Russian uniform. I'd then use Russian uniform plus a Tan colour, Iraqi sand or Dark Sand. One VMC that I've been using on my Turks is Green Ochre with English uniform an I think this may work in with the other greens as a shade colour.

When I get through some of my painting stack I'll give it a try on my US Marines in AEF uniform.

Helen

Wow, Helen. I don't know how I missed this reply. But a much belated thank you. I'm grateful! Thinking about doing up some of the 370th infantry for "Through the Mud and Blood".


-Doc
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! pic. edit
Post by: Grimm on April 07, 2009, 03:14:01 PM
OK here is my first try
is that ok or i I fail to use the right colors ?
(I still waiting for my osbry book )

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/2/6_07_04_09_4_11_38_1.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/2/6_07_04_09_4_11_38_0.JPG)

Grimm
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! edit pic.
Post by: Plynkes on April 07, 2009, 03:52:28 PM
Grimm, old chum, you have got the colours totally wrong. I was just doing some research and found this picture of a doughboy. Seems they wore all-white uniforms, though some units had red-and-white-checked gloves:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/045.jpg)

 lol Just kidding! Superb job there, as always.



As far as the colours really go, I couldn't say. My books show a wide variation between a very green kind of khaki (like you have painted), right through to one almost the colour of sand. It seems like with most armies, there was a lot of variation (or all the books are wrong).
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! edit pic.
Post by: Calimero on April 07, 2009, 04:34:15 PM
I think that you choose the right colors. The figure on the left look like the one I painted. I’m not 100% sure but I think that the Marines uniforms where greener and the Army uniforms had a more "brownish" shade.

@ Plynkes, I would love to see a wargame table with a unit of these white clad chaps one day!  lol
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! edit pic.
Post by: Grimm on April 07, 2009, 05:18:07 PM
 lol lol lol I must throw the figures away !!
Plynkes  it would look nice to have a army of these white clad chaps in a trench.

grimm
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! edit pic.
Post by: Will Bailie on April 07, 2009, 05:33:05 PM
Quote
Perhaps, being Canadian, you can help me with one other question.

I've often seen a series of photographs identified as Black Canadian troops. Any idea who these guys might be? On that note, why don't I see photos of Black Canadian troops in WW2?

Sorry to contradict Calimero and Archangel, but the Canadian army segregated African Canadians into their very own unit, the 2nd Construction Battalion.  In general, racism was a very real problem for all minorities in Canada in the early 20th Century.  On the west coast, Japanese Canadians were routinely turned away by army recruiters, however they got around that by taking the train to Calgary and joining the army there.  

More info on 2nd Construction Battalion here:
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/youth/sub.cfm?source=feature/week2006/vw_edres/crtimes_news/page1
and here:
http://agora.virtualmuseum.ca/edu/ViewLoitDa.do;jsessionid=5A279316F6252FDEC050EF95265DA4C8?method=preview&lang=EN&id=3189

That being said, some black Canadians may have made it into to the army in other regiments, but they would have been exceptional.  

Excellent looking doughboys, Grimm.  I've seen more depictions of the slightly greenish uniform than of the sandier coloured uniform, so I'm sure you're right on with the colour scheme.  And I'm sure that Plynkes' doughboys would be great for the North Russia campaign!
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! pic. edit
Post by: Helen on April 07, 2009, 11:03:47 PM
OK here is my first try
is that ok or i I fail to use the right colors ?
(I still waiting for my osbry book )

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/2/6_07_04_09_4_11_38_1.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/2/6_07_04_09_4_11_38_0.JPG)

Grimm

Hi Grimm,

They look okay by me! Well done to you. I agree with Dylan, there are various hues from Khaki to Green used by illustrators in the Ospreys. The USMC was closer to Field Grey, so there you go!

Helen

Now can you give us a run down on the colours used , that is, if you can remember - Thankyou.

Helen
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! edit pic.
Post by: Grimm on April 08, 2009, 10:11:47 AM
 lol I use the colors you and Calimero tell me on the left side I stard with russian uniform on the right side russian green (it work better then Reflective green ;))

The helm is Reflective green


I paint 8 of these last night so my first 10 Boys are ready  :D
I make pictires and post them.

What realy make me angry was the manny flesh that  the G: War Miniatures have.
I think they are the best company for ww1 figures but they where badly cast .
You diden´t have such a problem with other companys but any way the figures are fantastic.

other question
Where to find a list of insignia and badge for the US Army in ww1

Grimm
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! edit pic.
Post by: aircav on April 08, 2009, 11:37:37 AM
They look fantastic Grimm, thanks for the colour info.
Try here for WW1 us patches:
http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~worldwarone/WWI/insignia/shoulder.html


Keith  o_o
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! edit pic.
Post by: Helen on April 08, 2009, 10:46:39 PM
lol I use the colors you and Calimero tell me on the left side I stard with russian uniform on the right side russian green (it work better then Reflective green ;))

The helm is Reflective green


I paint 8 of these last night so my first 10 Boys are ready  :D
I make pictires and post them.

What realy make me angry was the manny flesh that  the G: War Miniatures have.
I think they are the best company for ww1 figures but they where badly cast .
You diden´t have such a problem with other companys but any way the figures are fantastic.

other question
Where to find a list of insignia and badge for the US Army in ww1

Grimm


What! You took my suggestion and ran with it! I'm so glad Grimm that they turned out lovely with your painting craft.

It will be lovely to see the remainder when they are finished.

Keep up the stirling work.

Thanks AirCav for the reference.

Helen
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! edit pic.
Post by: Grimm on May 30, 2009, 01:45:48 PM
ok the army is ready now

As I painted the figures I realize a few bad things .
I realy love the G.War Miniatures but these bilisters where very bad cast lot of flash around the figures ,some faces are slope and by the HMG Team the stand are missing .
The most things can be fixed with painting and greenstuff or cut away but It taks me a long time .
I hear that thise mistaks are a reason of a bad casting house so please kick them in the .... because the sculpts are a dream and it is a shame if they disfigure by a bad caster .

Then I starded with the Brigade Games tanks and that was a tragedy these figures where the worst castings I ever see !!!
Sorry your figures are very nice and I love The AC57 Stuff but these tanks are a shame .

So my Question is why companys with so many nice figures do such a fail ?

Anyway here come the pictures of the army .
next will be the Battle of Belleau Wood , a smal part of it  ::)

cheers Grimm

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/6_30_05_09_2_19_27_1.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/6_30_05_09_2_19_27_3.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/6_30_05_09_2_21_25_1.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/6_30_05_09_2_21_25_2.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/6_30_05_09_2_21_25_0.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/6_30_05_09_2_19_27_0.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/6_30_05_09_2_19_27_4.JPG) (http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/6_30_05_09_2_19_27_2.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/6_30_05_09_2_21_25_3.JPG)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/6_30_05_09_2_21_25_4.JPG)
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! more pic.!!
Post by: Plynkes on May 30, 2009, 01:52:52 PM
Ah, splendid, Grimmbo, old chum. I was looking at these in the gallery earlier and wondering when you would share them with the masses. Love the little baby tanks. Great little things, those Renaults, ain't they?

I take my hat off to you, mate. Your stuff just gets better and better.*






*Which does NOT mean that I thought it was rubbish to begin with.  :)
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! more pic.!!
Post by: Calimero on May 30, 2009, 02:35:42 PM

I agree with Plynkes those are really awesome  8)
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! more pic.!!
Post by: Grimm on May 30, 2009, 04:50:02 PM
Thanks Guys  :-*
 I must say that the Tank drivers are British and about the tanks I diden´t know if the US use these camo ,but I will use the Tanks for other armys too and the camo was the best way to vanish the bad carsting.
now I must buy some figures for a british army the tank drivers feel lonesome  ::)

grimm
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! more pic.!!
Post by: Helen on May 31, 2009, 12:51:32 AM
Nice work Grimm  8)

Sorry to hear about the Brigade games FT 17s. I've the resin and whilst I cannot comment on the metal versions I'm very pleased with the resin casts.

If you could be so kind when you have some time please if you could provide an overview of the paints you use for the folks who may have an interest in painting AEF.

Thankyou an again thanks for the topic.

Helen
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! more pic.!!
Post by: Grimm on May 31, 2009, 07:49:42 AM
sure I do it tomorrow ,today is familyday ,and I diden´t have much time  :?
Title: Re: US Doughboy Help ! more pic.!!
Post by: Le matou rouge on May 31, 2009, 11:06:03 AM
Very nice  :-* I really like those FT 17, very nice camo !

By the way, don't you have a German army to show too ? and a Turkish one ?  ;)

meow,
Matt