Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Elbows on 28 August 2017, 04:55:07 PM
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Hey all,
The local group here has been doing some Bolt Action and I've enjoyed some games of Chain of Command. As such I feel it's time to put together a small force of models for the occasion when I'm invited to play WW2 in 28mm. Nothing substantial (a few squads, a few teams, a few vehicles).
My main interest lies in Burma, but I suspect it's rare to stumble into players with terrain and armies for that theater. So my next real interest lies with the very beginning of the Russian's involvement in WW2.
Is there a decent resource for what I should be looking at? I'm thinking of small engagements (read: 2-4 squads, a few weapon teams, an armored car or two, and maybe one light tank etc.).
I see a couple of sources for T-26's, and trucks. I've glanced at Eureka for bulking out some basic infantry with rifles, etc. I'd imagine I should avoid SMG-laden units, etc. Does anyone make horse-mounted infantry for the Russians and would that be appropriate for 1939-40?
Thanks for any heads up. I know my WW2 reasonably well but not well enough to know which kind of small AT/field guns the Russians could use in that time-frame, etc.
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Depending on your lead time (or how long you are willing to wait), it might be worth following the progress at Rubicon for your T26:
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=604.msg7515#msg7515 (http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=604.msg7515#msg7515)
Otherwise I would suggest Empress (I do not have a T26 but I do have their Carson Loyd MMG carrier:
http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/empress-miniatures-carden-loyd-mmg.html (http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/empress-miniatures-carden-loyd-mmg.html))
Rubicon also are working on a GAZ AAA truck:
http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=538.msg6859#msg6859 (http://forum.rubiconmodels.com/index.php?topic=538.msg6859#msg6859)
AT gun wise, might be worth looking at the PSC AT gun set which has an option to build one of I think these:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/45_mm_anti-tank_gun_M1937_(53-K) (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/45_mm_anti-tank_gun_M1937_(53-K))
http://theplasticsoldiercompany.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2_43&products_id=205 (http://theplasticsoldiercompany.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_2_43&products_id=205)
The figures are not the best (being scaled up).
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Okay, cool - that's generally where I had been looking. For some reason I thought I'd seen a Rubicon T-26 on sale already, but I guess I hadn't.
I saw the PSC AT-Guns and thought I could figure something out with them, so that's a good route to go. I'll do a little research on which guns to build (might need a minor tweak).
I don't suppose you could make a BT-5 out of the BT-7 kit from Italeri/Warlord could ya? :D
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Warlord, Trenchworx and Company B should have all that you need in trrms of vehicles and guns. I prefer Black Tree Designs or Eureka metals to Warlord plastic infantry but YMMV.
No one produced accurate WW2 cavalry or Cossacks but there are a couple of rumours of lines coming. Most people either buy cavalry from earlier periods or male some by combining plastiv infantry and ACW cavalry.
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Sounds good - I've been poking around sites during the day. The resin vehicles from Warlord - are they actual Warlord models, or (like most of their line) created somewhere else and sold for 130% the price by Warlord?
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AFAIK they are there own models and I have not seen them for sale elsewhere
Most other manufacturers in resin are the same price or dearer even without the Warlord sales and discounts
Apart from the Rubicon T-26 to come in next 6-12 months or longer - yes its their lead time - then resin is your only choice for EW Soviets stuff.
If you are in USA Canada you can try JTFM or AGNM - JTFM are made from a resin I dislike and take 4-6 months to receive - AGNM have cast on bases
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Perhaps this will prove useful: http://wk.frothersunite.com/sc/pulp/ww2soviet1.htm
Here is described the uniform of the Soviet army for the initial period of the war: http://siberia-miniatures.ru/forum/showthread.php?fid=13&tid=169
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Empress's Spanish Civil War is also likely to be your friend.
http://www.empressminiatures.com/userimages/procart25.htm (http://www.empressminiatures.com/userimages/procart25.htm)
T26 and BT5.
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AFAIK they are there own models and I have not seen them for sale elsewhere
The photographs on the respective websites of the Empress and Warlord Carden Loyd MMG carrier is similar right down to a moulding fault. YMMV
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Thank you guys, keep 'em coming!
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Didn't realise the Russians had Carden Loyd's in 1939-40? lol
Its a mutton Chop Miniatures one on Empress so who has stolen who's IP?
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0288/8306/products/wgb-bi-133-c-l-mmg-carrier-b_2_grande.jpeg?v=1397473524)
(http://www.empressminiatures.com/USERIMAGES/MCG003.JPG)
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This is the image you want.
(http://www.warlordgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/WGB-BI-133-MMG-1.jpg)
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Didn't realise the Russians had Carden Loyd's in 1939-40? lol
Well,
"The Soviet Union bought 20 Mark VI tankettes, which they designated K-25, as well as a licence. However, the final project was significantly modernised and the licence was dropped. Instead, the Bolshevik Factory in Leningrad started the production of the T-27 tankette, a modernised and enlarged variant of the British design. A total of 3,228 T-27 tankettes were built between 1931 and 1933"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carden_Loyd_tankette#Service_history (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carden_Loyd_tankette#Service_history)
The Soviet variant (1931-41):https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-27 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-27)
However my comment was more based on the model sources (of course as you point out the Carden Loyd is a Mutton Chop vehicle, the T26 is from the SCW range - the ex-HLBSCo modern vehicles do not use the "metal" type resin used on the Empress moderns and the Carden Loyd).
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How early is early? If you mean 1941 on then there are a number of ranges that will meet your needs. The biggest challenge for anything earlier like Poland, Khalkin Gol and Finland in 1939 or the invasion of the Baltic republics in 1940 is the lack of suitable figures. The issue here is headwear, no M-36 helmets. Even in 1941 a substantial proportion of the Red Army were still wearing them and they are pretty distinctive. Brigade Games made some pretty awful looking figures for Khalkin Gol and Baker Company make some fairly naff looking chaps in shlem and greatcoat. Others mileage may vary.
I pray that someone will do some decent early war Russians. Bizarrely, Brigade Games do some excellent Hicks sculpted Winter War Finns but no opposition.
Wondered myself about those Warlord tankettes. I'm contemplating purchasing one to convert into its Czech offspring. The Soviets made their own version of the Carden-Loyd, the T-27, but very few were in service outside of training units by 1941.
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As the army may evolve I'm okay bending the rules on helmets, etc. More concerned about vehicle availability, artillery/AT gun availability, and generally having the correct unit composition. I can bend on webbing, clothing, and helmets generally (also doesn't look like I have a ton of choices).
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You could find a helmet thats similar to the M36 (I'm no expert, but a german helmet looks close), modify it and cast copies?
I've done similar modifications/copying with instant mold. On low detail pieces like helmets it should work, bit it probably wont replicate faces well.
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Warlord, Trenchworx and Company B should have all that you need in trrms of vehicles and guns. I prefer Black Tree Designs or Eureka metals to Warlord plastic infantry but YMMV.
No one produced accurate WW2 cavalry or Cossacks but there are a couple of rumours of lines coming. Most people either buy cavalry from earlier periods or male some by combining plastiv infantry and ACW cavalry.
The Crusader German cav is not correct?
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Whatever happened to the Baker Company Winter War stuff? I thought there was a lot of it, but going to their site now he only offers 4 packs of Finns and no early Soviets?
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As a field 76 mm gun can use a cannon during the First World War. This gun was modernized in 1930 (you will only need to increase the length of the trunk).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/76_mm_divisional_gun_M1902/30
http://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/prod.php?prod=50
(http://s11.radikal.ru/i183/1708/27/39b3e2ac83a2.png)
Wheels could be an old model (for horse traction).
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The Crusader German cav is not correct?
For making Soviet Cavalry?
Bit tricky esp if you want sabres
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This is all excellent info. I took the first step and ordered the books and cards I'll need for Battlegroup Barbarossa (I know, I'm going to be odd and run it at 28mm, etc.). It's the only WW2 game I've enjoyed so far. This'll be a slow burn project so I'm just going to read and study the rules a good bit more before I start work on terrain/models.
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I look forward to seeing your progress.
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For making Soviet Cavalry?
Bit tricky esp if you want sabres
I think I had lost the train of thought. No, not for making Soviet cavalry which was indeed the original question. I thought you were just making a blanket statement about all WW2 cavalry.
I'll put my headphones back on now....
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While the topic is up here - what was Russia's air support in the earliest days of WW2? The IL-2 didn't show up until later in 1941 correct? I know there wasn't much of a Russian air force after the initial push, but what would I be looking at model-wise? (just using them for pictures mainly)
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Polikarpov 1-15s and I-16s mostly with a handful of early MiG and Yak models. Academy do a seviceable kit of the I-16 in 1/48 that's as cheap as chips.
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I think I had lost the train of thought. No, not for making Soviet cavalry which was indeed the original question. I thought you were just making a blanket statement about all WW2 cavalry.
I'll put my headphones back on now....
Oh right yes they are lovely EW cav and I have longed to buy some but there is no list in any set of rules for them. It is always Polish or Soviet Cavalry that is included if any.
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Copplestone Russians from their Back of Beyond range? Now sold through North Star.
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Organization of the Rifle Company of the Red Army on 22.6.1941. (click to enlarge)
(http://s016.radikal.ru/i335/1709/72/c07946fb85f1t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/big/vgs5aue7ku4ke)
http://s016.radikal.ru/i335/1709/72/c07946fb85f1.jpg
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Polikarpov 1-15s and I-16s mostly with a handful of early MiG and Yak models. Academy do a seviceable kit of the I-16 in 1/48 that's as cheap as chips.
Depends how many planes you want really, I tend to go subscale for planes anyway (so 1/72nd would work with 28mm). The Pe2 light bomber is fun, my early Russians have a couple of those. If that is too modern, there is always the Tupolev SB light bomber.
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I-15 (I-15 Bis or I-152), I-153 and I-16 will be fine. These aircraft were widely used as light attack aircraft during the initial period of the war.
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Yeah, I'll just be using one or two - probably from Easy Model in 1/72 (cheap, nicely painted and small - easy to mount on a flying rod).