Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: Mick_in_Switzerland on 20 November 2017, 07:57:58 AM
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I have a feeling that fewer people are taking an active part in the forum discussions both here and on TMP.
I have noticed it, particularly on The Miniatures Page, but also here too. I wonder if this is really the case or just an illusion.
I have also noticed that a lot of manufacturers are using Facebook to show their new launches and product development. It may be that this is the reason behind reducing traffic on the forums.
What do you think?
Are there fewer active participants in discussions?
Thanks
Mick
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I'd not noticed.
I left TMP a good few years ago. Perhaps others have done like wise. But this was due to the nonsense of TMP not for wanting to move to Facebook (which I still don't have an account on).
But here on LAF there is a lot happening - sometimes too much, its hard to keep on top of all the threads, which perhaps means that some new threads disappear rather quickly. And this might make discussion harder.
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I have found the LAF a comfortable forum, with plenty going on, with a lot of skilled hobbyists posting here as well as other places.
I have no interest in Facebook, primarily due to profession, but its of little interest to me.
Add to that simply work, work and sleep etc, not a great amount of time is left for hobby and forums. I dare say a lot of others have that issue to. Work before pleasure or whatever.
Would like to comment more, but as Fred already mentioned, and correctly to my mind, lots going and not enough time to read, think and comment/reply coherently/incoherently.
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Well, the way I see it, most forum discussions are cyclic, meaning that a lot of topics will surface at almost regular intervals. And depending on the forum, there is a changing/shifting membership, or it is somewhat stagnant.
Most younger players wil shift from platform to platform, and usually frequent several (or a lot), maintaining a (shifting) audience for those topics. But older players often tend to narrow their platforms down to only several or even one (in my case), after their preferences crystalize.
And since those topics that come around every six months or so on one's regular forum have been seen and participated in before, at some point, seasoned forum members will choose to not post anymore in those topics (seen it, done that). Which eventually results in less traffic and participation, especially when there is less influx of new members.
On top of that, the most active, younger potential members, have indeed shifted to other (social) media, such as Facebook, Instagram and/or Twitter, foregoing the 'slow' medium of online forums. And manufacturers naturally will follow the herd, lest they lose the chance to reach their customer base.
Now, all of the above is not withstanding those daring individuals who are seasoned forum members, but also do Twitter, Instagram and Facebook (or even MyPage lol ). I'm just basing this on my own experiences and what I see and hear from others. (Kudo's to all who have moved along with all of them newfangled, youngster mumbo jumbo! :D )
On the other hand; even though I'm a one-forum man myself (to limit my time at the keyboard ;) ), I find that real life is often keeping me from posting all of my painting, converting and sculpting work, simply because what little time I have, I'd rather be spending on actual hobby work, instead of setting up for photoshoots, photoshopping the pics, then uploading them and writing my (usually lengthy) accompanying texts and finally posting all of it on LAF.
I don't know how it is for others, but that is the situation I find myself in most of the time these days. And this was significantly different ten years ago, when there was no family life to upkeep, and less draining jobs and responsibilities left me with a lot of time to surf the forums, post all of my work and be active on lots of platforms.
So maybe, with the aging demographic of LAF, TMP and other forums, many other posters are experiencing the same challenges?
Again; all of this is based on my own experiences and what I see and hear from others, so my bias might be way off from the actual facts, but I can't escape the notion that there's a core of truth to the above...
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If I'm honest, I'm more of a lurker, unless I see the chance of annoying people with a weak pun. I don't have much to say on stuff most of the time and my threads are usually just about displaying the last thing painted. But I enjoy flitting about looking at what others have said and done.
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I think that it is a good point about miniature companies focusing on facebook and other social media promotion rather than forums, but I think that it is a mistake to only focus on such platforms. I'm increasingly finding I have to be active in finding out about forthcoming releases from companies rather than finding posts about new shiny things upon the forums. I think this is a bit of a mistake- I really wouldn't have known about the forthcoming Viking and Norman releases from Footsore, for example if I hadn't stumbled across them when looking at the Footsore pages after seeing Captain Bloods Romano British stuff. Its a similar story with the forthcoming Conquest Medievals. I was checking out their Robin Hood stuff... The other thing is that I used to get a lot of my miniature news from the now dead Steve Dean painting forum.
I wonder if companies are preferring to avoid posting previews on forums to avoid the criticism Tha inevitably follows every preview. I think that's a mistake. I don't always make up my mind based on the opinions of armchair experts after all!! (There are many people who really do know their stuff of course :D)
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@Cubs, there's nothing wrong with a weak pun...
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I used to post a lot of stuff, especially WIP, though I’m less inclined to now. I’m still making as much, still have the same time and enthusiasm for my hobby, but I share less of it through LAF. I do belong to quite a few other forums etc but I very, very rarely post on them (ditto Facebook, Twitter, etc).
Nowadays if I want to record a project’s progress (for later replication, etc) it tends to go onto my own website (it’s not a blog, no one else gets to comment, etc). So why do I now miss out the LAF stage? Basically, it was a lot of effort to post here for, seemingly increasingly, little reaction. Just to clarify, in posting on LAF I wasn’t looking for plaudits but the reality is that there’s little point duplicating effort for diminishing effect.
Nowadays, I tend to start a LAF ‘project thread’ if I’m looking for advice and info and then as long as others remain engaged I continue posting. If I sense there’s insufficient interest to justify the effort of double posting here, then I stop. :)
Edited for clarity
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That's a fair point Silent Invader, In response to a posting on another forum I have done a couple of hours research on the subject, only to receive no response whatsoever...
I think more people look and enjoy, but don't comment...
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I vist Facebook as well as LAF a lot for the hobby. Both have a format I like, which is important to me. It is a reason I rarely visit TWWS for example. I find it hard to follow trends and threads there for some reason. And I left TMP years ago for reasons specific to that forum, but not to fora in general.
My Facebook circle tends to be more local, while LAF tends to be more international. They are quite complementary actually.
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I think that it is a good point about miniature companies focusing on facebook and other social media promotion rather than forums, but I think that it is a mistake to only focus on such platforms.....
I wonder if companies are preferring to avoid posting previews on forums to avoid the criticism Tha inevitably follows every preview....
It might just be a time issue. With minis businesses being mostly very small concerns, with usually only one or two people running them, dedicating enough time to internet promotion can be tough.
When we run a Kickstarter, I make sure I update about a dozen forums, and Facebook and Twitter, every day during the project's run. But it takes at least two hours per day to do that, more if there is significant interaction.
Companies aside, I think there is a lessening of active discussion... one of the problems I've found is the overall quality of people's stuff. Basically, the standard has gone up, to the point where you can say little more than 'Excellent job!', and when five other posters have already said that, it seems unnecessary. Plus, there's a lot more posts of finished stuff, rather than ongoing projects, which gives limited options for discussion.
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I hear what you say about the time spent on promotion- I seem to spend as much time trying to promote my small business on the internet and social media platforms as actually doing the work for it!!
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Nowadays if I want to record a project’s progress (for later replication, etc) it tends to go onto my own website (it’s not a blog, no one else gets to comment, etc).
Basically, it was a lot of effort to post here for, seemingly increasingly, little reaction.
Out of curiosity, do you get more reaction on your own website?
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I love this forum and try to visit every day . What stops me posting more is that my photos often appear upside down , a problem which does not occur with other forums . I note that some other members have encountered this problem.
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Out of curiosity, do you get more reaction on your own website?
This might seem a little odd but it’s actually set-up to discourage reaction. It’s very much a place for me to record what I’m doing for later reference (as I bounce between projects). I get the occasional email but comments aren’t solicited by me. I do sometimes get a bit irritated where I find content copied to other places (without asking and/or crediting) so the Website is now coded to prevent hot-linking of images etc. Visits from links placed at some other pages are also automatically barred.
To summarise: Website is almost exclusively for my later reference rather than a tool of engagement. :)
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I love this forum and try to visit every day . What stops me posting more is that my photos often appear upside down , a problem which does not occur with other forums . I note that some other members have encountered this problem.
Presumably you are using images taken with an iPhone? In which case you just need to run the image through a resizing app after it has been edited for aspect.
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Personally my use of forums has dropped right off. I only really check out LAF these days and even then it's a very brief visit most times. I was active on a few forums but after getting a website, a blog and then a Facebook page I found the amount of time it took to post my own updates across that lot plus perhaps 3 or 4 forums (I don't like the copy/paste forum post approach) was just too much. Also, just trying to stay active on a number of forums that all cover the same basic hobby can end up being more like work. With some of the forums there's quite a big cross over of users as well so you're talking to the same group of people.
Social media has certainly drawn me away and replaced my use of forums. Maybe it's a little different for me being a full time painter because FB is far better for self promotion and reaching people. It's also quicker to post on FB because a quick pic and an 'I painted this today' comment is all that's needed. On a forum that same approach tends to be over looked more by people I think. We expect a little more effort from a post, a bit of information, some sense of excitement or achievement from the poster. A forum post consisting of nothing but a single photo or even worse just a link to someone's blog just doesn't cut it.
Generally though I'd say LAF is pretty healthy looking as far as a forum goes. For some reason whilst other forums have tended to splinter or devolve to a small hardcore group LAF has kept chugging along nicely. Maybe the banning of all off topic content has helped it do that? I'm sure FB etc has had some impact on the forum but nothing like as happened on the Oldhammer Forum for example. There was quite a vibrant community on that site some years back but with the creation of now a number of FB groups (and the shit show that that seems to be) it's a shadow of what it was.
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Thank-you everybody. This is very interesting.
I enjoy LAF a lot and it is the main forum that I use. I find it a nice place that is supportive of hobbyists.
I am also a supporting member of TMP but that appears to have a significantly smaller active membership than in the past.
(TMP has a number of issues with forum bugs, right wing US politics and general nastyness that have probably contributed to the decline).
Regards
Mick
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Seems to me that a lot of posters these days have topics which are simply links to blogs that take people away from the community here to view the content. Now this is perfectly acceptable and well within the rules of LAF, but you do tend to get fewer responses to such threads (I think comments are more likely to get left on the blog itself) and I'm unsure whether it altogether helps foster a sense of community here when things are "outsourced" in this way.
I've even seen people complaining that they didn't get enough LAF responses to these kinds of posts. It just seems in my experience that people are less likely to engage with a link than a fully-fledged thread. And it seems pretty rich to me to complain that a post that is set up to leech people away from the community to content somewhere else, doesn't get much of a response from that community. How can you complain at the lack of a community response when you're the one dragging people away from the community to be clicks on your blog? lol
But people love their blogs, and I totally understand that (and I like reading them too), so what can you do? There's little point having a blog if you're going to post the entirety of it on a forum as well.
I think Facebook and such is the way things are going, but not for me. I can't stand any of that shit, the world of social media. All those people walking around like zombies all day, phone in hand, eyes locked on it, hardly noticing the world around them. I know so many people who are like that all the time, you can barely have a conversation with them. I'm a bit old-fashioned, but forums are as modern as I'm going to get. As long as I'm still interested in painting and gaming, and as long as there is a LAF, this is where I'll be. :)
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The Stats on here suggest that the number of posts in the last few months is slightly down but does not appear to be significant
As far as my posts to the TMP are concerned and the corresponding linked hits to my blog are concerned there has been a definite down turn. Aside from the comments mentioned about TMP already I think the site is starting to show its age - it appears to be riddled with bugs (poster headings bearing no relationship to content is a big one)
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I'd agree there's a minor decline in comments on the forum. But I don't feel its related to a decline in interest. Rather a change in social etiquettes. If you look at older threads you'll see page after page of one sentence platitudes (in the nicest sense possible) Now people seem to avoid parroting others comments.
I'll admit it's important to receive comments . They help to qualify your efforts. Like a lot of members I prefer a question led conversation on my topics rather than pages of wow's( don't get me wrong I'd be wounded if there wasn't any wow's!)
I also think time. Alot of regular topic posters are snowed under at the moment.
But I suspect it might be a ripple effect after the changes to photo bucket.
As for TMP. I still view topics but not longer post. Just reading topics its plain to see its riddled with fan boy trolls and lackies.
I much prefer the adult attitudes and conversations on LAF. The moderators here's a probably some of the best and fairest out there.
Mark.
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It might also be something to do with the fact that the Perry brothers haven't had one of their box sets out for a while? There seemed to be a period a few years ago where they always seemed to be some exciting project or other, but it seems to me that they and others have slowed their production rate to some extent (except Warlord possibly)
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I have been an active LAF-user for years and still post everything I create. But I must say I'm having more fun with Facebook at the moment as you get more responses to something you post. Sometimes here I don't get a response to a post...and that doesn't motivate.
I will stay here and post images and react to others. But my activity has gone down a lot since I'm using Facebook and I don't see it going up anytime soon. I do prefer the way a forum works to the chaos that is Facebook.
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Seems to me that a lot of posters these days have topics which are simply links to blogs that take people away from the community here to view the content
.....<snip>.....
I think Facebook and such is the way things are going, but not for me. I can't stand any of that shit
As my general thoughts but would just have been a word for word repeat of and total agreement with, Plynkes' comments, I have just a few specific instances that put me off posting:
Posts with no info/pics just a link:
I don't bother to click to see an external link, you want me to see something and comment on it, post it here.
I have noticed several manufacturers have started doing this as well now.
Fanbois:
Some members seem to take any non favourable comment as a personal attack against their manufacturer of choice. LAF is one of the few fora I have visited where criticism is always constructive and fairly given. Accept that not everyone thinks like you do and accept that restrained criticism is appropriate to post.
No follow up:
If you post something, at least have the courtesy to revisit the thread later and respond, even if just to say "Thanks".
The only other thing I would comment (and is an accepted failing on my part) is about Photobucket. I got so pissed off with seeing page after page of grey Photobucket hosting on fora and websites that I have /photobucket/ as a personal wildcard entry in my ad-blocker software. So I no longer see the damn grey boxes, but unfortunately I don't see any other Photobucket hosted images either.
So I apologise as there are several threads on here that I would (and have) normally post on that I now don't see the images for.
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This might seem a little odd but it’s actually set-up to discourage reaction. It’s very much a place for me to record what I’m doing for later reference (as I bounce between projects). I get the occasional email but comments aren’t solicited by me. I do sometimes get a bit irritated where I find content copied to other places (without asking and/or crediting) so the Website is now coded to prevent hot-linking of images etc. Visits from links placed at some other pages are also automatically barred.
To summarise: Website is almost exclusively for my later reference rather than a tool of engagement. :)
Got it.
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This is my go to forum for most things and one of only three which I regularly participate in. There's a great bunch of folks on here and it's pretty good for keeping up to date with the general aspects of the hobby, (new figs, ranges, suppliers, rules, reports, etc) I'm interested in and plenty that I didn't think I was interested in but it turns out I am now :D
The other two are very period specific and give me that deeper dive detail on 18thC warfare which is my favourite period.
I don't use facebook for anything other than keeping up to date with my family and friends and not for the hobby. I find that most stuff goes on in here, on webpages or in blogs - if it aint on one of these formats its passed me by, and that's never been a problem, because there's always someone here who is in the know. :)
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I don't like Facebook for hobby projects.
You get the instant gratification of likes but the post is dead after 24 hours. There is also no continuity if you are doing a project.
I have created threads on LAF for my big hobby projects and I like to revisit them (often months later) when I do an update.
Mick
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Having got back into gaming only a year ago after a 5 year hiatus I have found LAF a valuable resource in all ways. I don't do facebook or other social media and never will. As others have already noted, there are limited hours in the day and I generally want to be painting and gaming, not on social media. The photobucket thing was a major knockback for me, I was just getting into sharing our game reports and painted stuff online.
I do find the forum discussion threads interesting, I read all that are relevant to the periods I game (or might want to game) although I don't often have much to contribute publicly.
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I tend to post here, on TMP, and on Facebook. I find each has it's uses.
Agree with some of the comments about TMP but there as still some knowledgeable people there who have provided useful advice.
The linking to a blog post I am also guilty of, but I try to post at least a few images and a precis and not just a link and the blog was created after prompting from a couple of members here :) Also when visiting blogs if I leave a comment there I also try to remember to leave one here too.
As for replying, I tend not to comment unless I have something useful to add. However if something really makes me go wow, then a great post, figure etc may be posted. It's also easy to see which topics you have commented on here so keeping the topics updated and replying to comments is easier than on some of the more outdated forums out there.
Hopefully this forum keeps going in the long-term as it is a great source of friendly advice generously given.
Tony.
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I still use forums frequently - though admittedly only a very few, because most don't have the traffic to warrant swinging by. Facebook has become a much larger part of my hobby - in fact I never used Facebook for it's "normal" use prior. I have had Facebook for a long time and didn't start actively using it till I realized there were some great hobby groups and it was really easy to follow manufacturers. It's obviously much easier to like a company's page than visit a dozen forums each day.
I don't "follow" people, including friends and family...so my Facebook page is nothing but hobby companies and my local gaming group. I run a couple of threads on LAF but barely visit other forums. I definitely do not visit company forums as most don't have any kind of traffic which generates interesting discussions.
I stick to LAF because the general level of quality and civility towers above other forums I've been on.
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Elbows, it seems we use Facebook in the exact same way :)
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Elbows, it seems we use Facebook in the exact same way :)
Same here too. Had a FB page long before I set up a profile (oddly enough you're not supposed to have a page without a profile but that's how it worked out at the time) and since setting one up I've used it purely to join a few groups and follow pages of interest. Friend requests get deleted and not following family or anyone. It's the best way to use FB in my opinion.
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Agreed. I admit I used to hate Facebook. Then I discovered the "unfollow" feature. Cranked up every security setting, turned off everything extraneous and blocked every Facebook game/app (those things where people used to invite you etc.). Once all that was done and I discovered the hobby aspect of Facebook , it's become a staple.
Probably not what Facebook wants to see from a "consumer", but it is what it is.
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...it was really easy to follow manufacturers. It's obviously much easier to like a company's page than visit a dozen forums each day.
Although bear in mind that Facebook tends to send a company's post to only around 10% of the users that Like their page... so it's easy to miss 90% of new releases if you just use FB.
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On general scale. Yes. Form of participation in internet is shifting.
Forums are format of the past, so most people sticking to it are interacting with web in traditional way.
Younger demographic do it in their own way and are not easily recruitable to such old school (in their eyes) way of social interacting.
So we are is a kind of ghetto.
I am meeting same people in FB groups and here. Most of us has double presence but I doubt in a strong shift in younger demographics toward older forms of communication.
The movement is natural phenomena.
Forums are loosing active members faster than they are able to recruit.
As to LA case
When you start realizing social change, its already here.
Its still best place in the net for 28mm miniatures that are not predominately GW.
But its a place where median of age is well beyond same in FB groups or on reddit.
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@AWu
From my experience LAF is still OK with a good base of people.
TMP has noticably less active people than three or four years ago.
Mick
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I'm not a manufacturer, but if I was, I would be using Facebook as it's the most time-efficient means of spreading the word and engaging with potential customers; followed perhaps by Twitter. As a customer I use the former, but not the latter, for just those reasons. If I want to be sociable I use real time phone calls and face to face.
The eclectic hobby painter will get an ego-satisfying number of likes etc. on Facebook, but if you're embarking on something long-term and with some permanency, and also want to engage others in discussion of it, the forums are the place to do it; Facebook is all about today's 'news' and folk will never be able to keep track of anything older than a few days.
I've always liked the old definition of forum: "A medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged". I have noticed a noticeable reduction in discussion however and there used to be a time when I lost hours on LAF engaging with others on a topic. I sometimes wish there was a like button here, as if you're late to a 'show' thread all the good platitudes have gone and you struggle to come up with something original to say. At least if there is some text to go with a picture, it gives me an opening for a question or comment with a bit more meaning.
Call me a curmudgeon if you like, but I also think it's extremely rude to come onto any forum just to re-direct others to your blog. Post here and discuss here, or not at all. Provide a link to your blog in your signature by all means, or even directly link to a blog post if it is relevant to a discussion; but like crashing a neighbour's party to invite everyone over to your place, posting just to direct people to your blog is not on. As this forum has to be paid for too, it's also like stealing your neighbours beer too.
I only use two forums, here and the TFL one. I never joined or used TMP and my hay fever doesn't do well with the tumbleweed and dust blowing around a few of the others. I think AWu is right and how people use the internet has changed. Ultimately reducing numbers of old gits traditionalists will slowly see some forums wither and die.
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Call me a curmudgeon if you like, but I also think it's extremely rude to come onto any forum just to re-direct others to your blog. Post here and discuss here, or not at all. Provide a link to your blog in your signature by all means, or even directly link to a blog post if it is relevant to a discussion; but like crashing a neighbour's party to invite everyone over to your place, posting just to direct people to your blog is not on. As this forum has to be paid for too, it's also like stealing your neighbours beer too.
While I don't find it rude, I very rarely click through to blogs unless people provide a good number of photos and text on the forum.
The fact that this thread has accumulated three pages in a day is also surely a sign that there is still some discussion alive on LAF.
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I'm an occasional poster . I agree TMP has half the posts of a few years ago .
It can be static , which is surprising that ł thought it was the biggest forum of the hobby .
Many reasons , an egotistical bizarre editor , out of date broken site , closing for an hour a day , little hobby news except ( no interest there )Warlords latest offering .
It looks it's days are numbered .
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I think it is a sign of the times, TMP I will have the odd shufty and search their history but too clunky to be honest.
Here I look regularly but less so am I likely to post as Face book in the last 12 months has taken over, whether groups with particular interests, instant access which you can scan over. I can get eye candy and comment instantaneously or swipe over. Where as even complementing on here is old skool or more so. Images now is harder to upload than say facebook which you are not bound by using a 3rd party host. On groups like our club I can link, post pics and hold chats and upload documents until the cows come home. News is instantaneous, promotion etc, competitions and the like make for instant gratification.
I can see in a few years Forums will go the way of Yahoo groups to a greater or lesser extent (Cannot access nor use Yahoo it is a nightmare and old hat).
As already said the like button can measure interest, I have noted people on forums who get a little angsty if people don`t comment or reply...why not you may ask...because you have to think of something to say, have to write it, at emoticons and post...in these days it may be getting to heavy for some people especially when competing with twitter, FB and things like Instagram and such
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I tend to post on someone else's thread if I see something I think is good, if I can see someone could do with a bit of encouragement, if I can answer a query, or if I have a query on how something has been done. I'll post my own thread if I have something to show, need some help or have something I think might be useful or of interest to others. I tend to not post as much on threads that are about opinions, unless it's something like "which one do you think works best?" etc. This seems to be how LAF works in general but it's definitely not how other places work! I browse LAF every day and there's a nice community here and arguments tend to be fairly minor compared to tmp, for example.
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I have noted people on forums who get a little angsty if people don`t comment or reply...
They are the people that Facebook is perfect for, yet a few of them take great pride in stating that they don't use Facebook. :?
My reason for not complementing them is that there is so much being contributed that it would really cut into my time here just posting "Great!" for each one. One click 'likes' would better sooth their ego surely?
I get people worry about giving all their personal details to FB, but you can simply give a false date of birth, fudge other details and even give a fake name if ID concerns are your reason for not joining. I might not reveal that I am the curvaceous Go-Go Bananas on FB to friends and family though.
;)
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Call me a curmudgeon if you like, but I also think it's extremely rude to come onto any forum just to re-direct others to your blog. Post here and discuss here, or not at all. Provide a link to your blog in your signature by all means, or even directly link to a blog post if it is relevant to a discussion; but like crashing a neighbour's party to invite everyone over to your place, posting just to direct people to your blog is not on. As this forum has to be paid for too, it's also like stealing your neighbours beer too.
As somebody who regularly posts links to my blog projects I can only apologise if it feels like gatecrashing somebody else's party. Its certainly not the intention for me and I am sure many others who do the same.
I use my blog to track the progress and diarise my projects, games and other aspects of my enjoyment in this hobby. I post up on the LAF to alert others that progress has been made, to stimulate conversation and to share ideas. I don't think repeating the entirety of my posts on the forum would be appropriate.
There have been plenty of occasions where I have come to this forum for inspiration and subsequently directed to another's blog/website. The forum serves as a fabulous resource and directory for all kinds of wonderful things.
The forum is is in my mind a place where like minded folks can share ideas, gather information and draw inspiration. The LAF is the best forum the hobby has to offer by a long shot and I have met some very talented and sociable people through it. My interest in the hobby is richer for it.
Whilst on the subject of blogs I have found that a number I follow are now posting less frequently - perhaps this is also a sign that these media have had their high watermark.
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As somebody who regularly posts links to my blog projects I can only apologise if it feels like gatecrashing somebody else's party. Its certainly not the intention for me and I am sure many others who do the same.
It's just my opinion and personal values, which are not shared by all obviously. I would probably feel that a few photos and a summary of the post, along with the link, would be more like "I'm having a party tomorrow guys" in comparison and far more reasonable to my eyes. It also adds to the forum and drives people to you, so everyone's happy.
That LAF does not have a rule against linking to blogs pretty much sums up the thoughts of the owner, so as Plynkes pointed out earlier, it's quite acceptable here.
Whilst on the subject of blogs I have found that a number I follow are now posting less frequently - perhaps this is also a sign that these media have had their high watermark.
Yes I've noticed this too. That said a lot were effectively 'FB' style picture posts and I assume that they have drifted to that medium. The others have reduced for all that however; I have about two hundred blogs on my reading list and I doubt more than thirty or forty regularly post now. My own posting has been drastically reduced too, but that is largely due to real life demands. A relative loss of wargames mojo has contributed though.
I browse LAF every day and there's a nice community here and arguments tend to be fairly minor compared to tmp, for example.
I think we tend more to 'differences of opinion' and 'debate', rather than 'blood feud'. It's a forum for grown-ups in the main.
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I get people worry about giving all their personal details to FB, but you can simply give a false date of birth, fudge other details and even give a fake name if ID concerns are your reason for not joining.
Dear Lord man, are you condoning the use of a false date of birth online?! I'm outraged!
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Dear Lord man, are you condoning the use of a false date of birth online?! I'm outraged!
Who me? :o
You would be surprised at how much anguish some people of a certain age experience when filling in false details. I'm sure they think the Internet Police will be giving them the three o'clock knock for it. Online daters cope better, as they are used to lopping ten years off their age.
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My two cents, for what it is worth.
I love this forum, it is my number one place to go on the net.
People are helpful when asked.
Also very little backbiting.
As for Facebook I don't use it, never will.
If you make wargame stuff and use FB only to sell your stuff,
you will get any money from me.
Don't want to sound mean, that's the way it is.
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Like an earlier poster I left TMP because of all the issues and nonsense.
I do not use facebook. However, I feel that I posted fairly regularly here
on LAF and love the site.
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I'm not a fan of Facebook. I tend to find I get a lot of pm's (which is a function of this forum I really like.) from people asking for help or inquiring after other things I do.
Like most people this is my go to site these days.
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Largely given up here, too few wargamers really, at least in my view. Facebook is much easier to use and generates far more interest in my experience.
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Don't use FaceBook, so that world wargaming or otherwise is closed to me.
I have not posted at TMP in over a year and I was quite prolific there.
I do like here, The Wargames Website and Pendrakens Forum, Consimworld and BoardGameGeek because they are just comfortable places to visit, where people are generally friendly and polite.
I really like blogs, they are generally run by creative people wanting to share and you can follow blogs that match your own interests, so building up a sort of daily news read.
I do put up links here to my blog (and without pictures - shock horror!), but my blog articles are often running at 2000 - 5000 words, so are significant pieces and so need their own space and provide an archive, rather than posting in full on one chosen forum.
I have blog articles that have been hit several thousands of times (one has almost 12,000 visits), yet have just a couple of comments - that can be unrewarding and sends the message to the blogger / writer that either interest is low or their effort is being taken for granted - both demotivate and it may well be that general climate of not appreciating what we actually have here, that is evidencing itself in lower forum turnout generally.
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I find that posts like Eric the Shed does get the balance right; there is enough information and photos to appreciate the subject at hand with a link to the greater detail for those interested. I don't mind that at all.
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I find that posts like Eric the Shed does get the balance right; there is enough information and photos to appreciate the subject at hand with a link to the greater detail for those interested. I don't mind that at all.
I'm blushing now.... :-*
Your cheque is in the post...
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I hate using Facebook - the interface is a jumbled mess. Plus I hate them as a company as well. The only reason I even have a Facebook (which has zero personal information at all and was instead set up as an adjunct to my website) is to view Facebook pages that require you to have an account to view them.
Twitter is easier to understand but can still be a mess, especially for multiperson conversations or anything long form (Twitter "threads" must be one of the worst formats for writing known to man).
At least forums are formatted so that people can have an actual proper conversation, in a clear, easy-to-follow manner. My posting goes up and down as my hobby interests are highly cyclical (and minis are at the nadir at the moment, sadly), but I don't think that overall the forums are suffering. LAF is still a large and healthy community.
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I agree with you about the format - I come here for a natter. This is a good place. Happy.
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I’m a solid lurker, I probably post now as much as I ever did, which is to say very infrequently. I visit at least twice a day, though. Just usually never log in.
I was active on a number of forums say 10-15 years ago, and I think in general they have slowed down significantly. I don’t think the medium appeals to a lot of the younger generation who are used to social media being much more instant. I like the slower pace of forums though.
I suppose after remembering all the flame wars and arguments of my internet-youth, I generally don’t get involved in much discussion but I’m happy to appreciate other people’s work.
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I am more of a forum guy as well ... it seems more orderly put together. And with one login I can see everything.
I have been a while on FB, but there seemingly more and more groups were built. So you need to be invited, otherwise one did not see the content.
Private groups ... in the net ... invented for all mankind to share ... great. That is like private hobby groups. If you do not know it before hand, you cannot go there. Brilliant.
FB being for everyone, but then not without being in a 1000 little groups. Not my thing. Maybe to oldscool with that. Like whatsApp, if you do not know the people, you cannot talk to them. Nonsense.
So ... I need to get the contact from a website or a forum ... well ... then why not stay here in the first place?
Here so much is going on, that I enjoy "new post"-functions. Screening over every title of every post. If it catches my interest I lurk in at least for looking.
However, since it is not my main forum, I am just looking in here every now and then. Sometimes more frequently.
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I think others have already said it all for me.
I don't do FB, so that's not for me. Manufacturers who exclusively use it don't get my business, but that's not going to hurt anyone! lol
I daily visit LAF and the Pendraken forum, plus a couple of others I use regularly. TMP I look at occasionally but far less often than I did say 5 or 6 years ago, it goes in phases, I visit a few times in succession then remember just how many arseholes there are posting on it and drift off for a couple of months, then dip my toe in the water again.
As far as LAF goes, I post on threads that interest me, I don't always respond if my only comment is "Great", it depends how much time I have at that moment. I do regularly post links to my blog (sorry!), but try to give an indication of what it's about and at least one representative picture. I do that because it's easier than posting a long message and multiple pictures on 4 or 5 different fora. I do try to respond to anyone who comments on one of my threads.
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I have been a while on FB, but there seemingly more and more groups were built. So you need to be invited, otherwise one did not see the content.
Private groups ... in the net ... invented for all mankind to share ... great. That is like private hobby groups. If you do not know it before hand, you cannot go there. Brilliant.
FB being for everyone, but then not without being in a 1000 little groups. Not my thing. Maybe to oldscool with that. Like whatsApp, if you do not know the people, you cannot talk to them. Nonsense.
So ... I need to get the contact from a website or a forum ... well ... then why not stay here in the first place?
The whole 'private' thing is one of my bugbears too. It's not just FB either. I find it utterly obnoxious for some reason when a forum might have a private board or thread that only a select group can take part in. With FB groups I wish more would actually be viewable by non-members because at least then you could see whether the group is worth joining in the first place. It's not as if they're hiding porn!
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I see a tendency to more and more being moved to facebook. But I really really don't like it. Because as facebook is really a rotten media format for storing information and having longer discussions. Because once things get off your front page it is basically gone. It really takes some digging to find it again. Facebook really is only for a quick fix of someone falling down stairs or some video of a cat.
Forums on the other hand are virtual libraries of everything cool. I sometimes revisit threads that are several years old to find inspiration. They are easily found via the search function. Sometimes I even just travel down the rabbithole that is the related post at the bottom of the screen.
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I find it utterly obnoxious for some reason when a forum might have a private board or thread that only a select group can take part in.
I used to be on a rugby forum years back where they introduced 'Private Rooms' for each national team (Wales, Ireland, etc..) for select members to join. I thought it would be fun and felt all important when I was invited in to one. Turned out it was a way for small minded people to feel big and special whilst they bitched about other people who couldn't read what they were saying. I left the forum after a couple of weeks. That sort of elitism isn't for me.
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Forum...???
What is a forum?
I would never do that sort of thing, old chap.
All that posting and commenting.
Not for me.
Not at all.....
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LAF fills all my needs. I have dabbled with my own site etc but LAF is robust and collaborative. I have given up posting my stuff anywhere else, I upload my images on my own server and link them here.
No offence to Chris and Alex, but I do think the format of LAF is starting to feel a bit dated. Given what is available out there the filtering functions are less than what they could be and he format would do well with some adaption to mobile devices.
All this would of course take quite a some time and money to implement. I don't know, maybe a kickstarter could finance a face lift?
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I see a tendency to more and more being moved to facebook. But I really really don't like it. Because as facebook is really a rotten media format for storing information and having longer discussions. Because once things get off your front page it is basically gone. It really takes some digging to find it again. Facebook really is only for a quick fix of someone falling down stairs or some video of a cat.
Forums on the other hand are virtual libraries of everything cool. I sometimes revisit threads that are several years old to find inspiration. They are easily found via the search function. Sometimes I even just travel down the rabbithole that is the related post at the bottom of the screen.
That reflects my own view so accurately I can’t improve on it.
The transient nature of Facebook and some of its real world problems do make me wonder if it will be around in 10 years time, whereas I can see forum-based structures being around indefinitely.
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The whole 'private' thing is one of my bugbears too. It's not just FB either. I find it utterly obnoxious for some reason when a forum might have a private board or thread that only a select group can take part in. With FB groups I wish more would actually be viewable by non-members because at least then you could see whether the group is worth joining in the first place. It's not as if they're hiding porn!
I think the private thing on Facebook is a consequence of open groups being visible to friends. I remember when the Frothers group started it was open, but posts and comments were then shared with the friends and family of the members. No one needs to read that shit unless they’ve chosen to! lol
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Dear Lord man, are you condoning the use of a false date of birth online?! I'm outraged!
I always wondered whether your screen age nodded to the noted aesthete and art critic Brian Sewell. He used to claim to be 103 and - somewhat surprisingly - was also a rugby enthusiast.
What's great about this forum, I think, are the inspiring projects, the melange of styles and the depth of discussion. I might occasionally look at other forums when search results (game reviews, techniques, whatever) point there, but little tempts me to stay. There are lots of blogs that I regularly visit (Gardens of Hecate, The Convertorum, Iron Sleet, etc), but I haven't found nay forums that match this place.
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I think the private thing on Facebook is a consequence of open groups being visible to friends. I remember when the Frothers group started it was open, but posts and comments were then shared with the friends and family of the members. No one needs to read that shit unless they’ve chosen to! lol
Maybe people just need to stop sharing everything they see on the internet! ;) That's exactly why I don't have a friends list on FB. It's all slacktivist rainbow filtered profile pics and inspirational quotes. Although I guess a Frothers group might be a little more incriminating. lol
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...I remember when the Frothers group started it was open, but posts and comments were then shared with the friends and family of the members. No one needs to read that shit unless they’ve chosen to! lol
A better way of self-moderation I can't imagine... >:D lol
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You can't self-moderate other Frothers. lol
Anyway, my facebook is purely for work and hobby. My 20 'friends' (needs a prune) don't get a look in!
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I hadn’t really noticed a drop off. Don’t look at TMP much these days - clunky and often filled with peculiar views.
LAF is my favourite place. I visit regularly each day, to revel in the eye candy and the good company. Yet to find a friendlier place. Thanks to LAF I have met lots of talented and genuinely lovely folks, some of whom have become good friends.
It basically inspired me to start Crooked. I still feel guilty and a bit dirty every time I post something with the commercial tag. I wish I had time to post more, but I wish I had time for more hobby projects to post about in general!
Facebook is good for me as a micro-business. I can reach lots of folks who may never have heard of me and it also builds a little community. I have never really got on with Twitter, but suspect that and Instagram would build things further.
I do use Private FB groups too, but that’s to manage the work of specific projects and teams (development, playtesting etc) rather than as a wierd elite club. Don’t get that at all!
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My first introduction to forums was TMP which I used to visit a lot and found very useful. It still has its uses but appears to be more and more US right wing centric which can leave me quite exasperated so I just dip in and out now.
LAF is much more agreeable a site to visit but tends to be more painter than gamer focussed and again I visit it much less frequently than before.
The forums I visit most days are those of the Society of Ancients and Society of 20th Century Wargaming. They are much smaller and more focussed on areas that interest me.
On internet interaction generally most of my online time is facebook. My Club (Falkirk and District) has its own page and it is great for seeing what is going on, arranging games, general chat. I follow lots of other wargames pages and am always seeing interesting stuff.
So in terms of general trends I would say away from yahoo groups (remember them :o) with forums hanging on but slowly losing ground to facebook but still with a place for a few years at least.
Oh and blogs - I have one and read other people's but as with the forums I think they have reached a peak and now are in gradual decline.
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I love LAF.
Since I returned to the hobby a couple of years go, this forum has pretty much been the only place I go online, and browsing this was the inspiration to get started again the first place. What I'm mainly here for is big impressive project logs, and discussions on historical things that interest me and general hobby / gaming discussions.
My interests are quite narrow (late medieval), so I don't really look at any of the other boards except the Medieval and Renaissance ones (plus the fantasy board, general hobby board and the workbench), but when I occasionally do I'm always reminded at what a wealth of other fantastic stuff there is here on periods and genres I thought I had little interest or knowledge in.
I do often wish there were more people posting stuff and starting interesting discussions on the medieval board, but then I guess I should probably just 'get out more' and look at other eras and genres. I couldn't possibly say whether there is less stuff being posted than there used to be... If it sometimes seems like that to me, it could be because the 'honey moon period' of browsing old threads and projects is over?
I hear a lot about TMP, and my morbid curiosity has led to a lot of 'research' as to what all the (negative) fuss is about.... and I do casually browse it, but don't really ever see anything there that I don't get here. It does seem like a very weird place. The Medieval boards are a bit of a wasteland really.... There seem to be little threads on users' actual painting work, and when there is it's already been posted here. Every now and again there is an interesting long discussion which is worth reading, but the weird, dated layout doesn't make things easy, and there seems to be a lack of any sort of community or atmosphere. And don't get me started on the reposting, my friend (smile). I don't really look at any of the other boards there, and I'm aware there is a mind-boggling array of them.
I've never used any other forums, and indeed have never really found any that look worth signing up for.
I don't like (or really understand) the idea of using facebook for this hobby. I have a facebook account and regrettably concede it is useful socially (though my account has been wiped of any personal information, I don't like the idea that people can look me up there and see what school I went to, etc), but have never really considered using it as an alternative for forums like this. The forum format, when done well (I consider it done well here) is perfect for hobbies like this I think. The only hobby facebook page I look at is the Perry Miniatures ones, to see their new release and their amazing battle reports, but I never comment or 'like' anything.
I like blogs, and am happy to be redirected to peoples' blogs from posts here. Putting a few pictures and some words, with a link to the blog for further photos if people want to see more, seems like a perfectly fine idea to me.
I've often wanted to do my own blog, but in the end decided that just having one good long thread here for my project is the better idea for me. I do still think someday I will have a site to showcase my 'finished' project with photos of all scenery, units, etc in detail, plus battle reports, my rules to download..... but only when it's 'finished'... and when does that happen?
Long live LAF!
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I see a tendency to more and more being moved to facebook. But I really really don't like it. Because as facebook is really a rotten media format for storing information and having longer discussions. Because once things get off your front page it is basically gone. It really takes some digging to find it again. Facebook really is only for a quick fix of someone falling down stairs or some video of a cat.
Forums on the other hand are virtual libraries of everything cool. I sometimes revisit threads that are several years old to find inspiration. They are easily found via the search function. Sometimes I even just travel down the rabbithole that is the related post at the bottom of the screen.
This, mostly.
That said, I've just recently found new friends and a much more social experience around the hobby on Facebook.
Both forums and social media have a place for me, but for real lasting discussions or showcases, it has to be a forum.
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I have recently got the facebooks and I am in two minds regarding it. I like the hobby related groups especially the 3d printing terrain and miniatures ones. It is so refreshing to have somewhere where people 'get it' and are enthused about it instead of the same tired crap over and over again.
What I dont like about it is the targeted advertising the general lack of privacy and being over informed about stuff I would rather not know about my friends.
Unfollow them all. Seriously - my "feed" is nothing but stuff I choose to see. My adblocker blocks most of the advert stuff - but it's still there in the margins. It's quite palatable when you get it dialed in correctly.
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This is one of several forums I frequent daily. The fact that I find three pages of posts since my last visit seems to indicate no significant drop in activity. I do think the photo bucket event did ding a lot of posters. I sure was annoyed to have all my pictures disappear and have to find another service that would enable me to post pictures again (Flicker) But I love this forum because, as others have already said, we maintain a civil, friendly, helpful place to discuss our hobby.
I do check some blogs and an occasional facebook site but prefer this format. I will still check sites where there is little to no activity if I have an intense interest (MKRealms for example) :? At any rate, I will always come here for inspiration and the privilege of entering a thoughtful discussion now and then.
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Is it possible that the Photo Bucket ransom thing has reduced the number of posts and therefore replies?
Tony
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Unfollow them all. Seriously - my "feed" is nothing but stuff I choose to see. My adblocker blocks most of the advert stuff - but it's still there in the margins. It's quite palatable when you get it dialed in correctly.
And installing Facebook Purity helps a lot with all the crap Facebook forces down your digital throat. Doesn't work on mobile Chrome as far as I know, but excellent for desktop browsing.
http://www.fbpurity.com/
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Is it possible that the Photo Bucket ransom thing has reduced the number of posts and therefore replies?
Tony
I would totally agree with this statement! I’ve noticed a lot of the guys threads that I tend to follow(there’s certain people, no matter what they do, I’ll check it out when I see their name against it. Ancients, sci fi OR Mylittlepony!) And they seem to have gone quiet. I think the Photobucket thing has knocked the wind out of some people’s sails! It also a crying shame(I’ve mentioned it elsewhere) but the library of information we used to have before the Photobucket thing has been severely damaged!
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I find this all fascinating discussion, LAF has always been my go-to forum (when I got into things online TMP had already had a very dodgy/bizarre reputation), I find that I am now using facebook more and more but find that while it allows me to interact directly with creators their is also several undesirable elements:
- Lack of anonymity, i'm not ashamed of my hobby but disagreements about sometimes hotly contested subjects can get more dicey when you can get back-tracked and have your inbox filled with hateful PM's.
- I have noticed(and this is not a criticism) that LAF tends to be the older end of the age distribution, while fb tends to be the younger fellows(of which I am technically a part at 26), as a consequence we see alot more of the kind of issues young people are grappling with on FB(I have noticed that young people tend to be more liberal but also intolerant of other viewpoints, something that research has backed up) while the denizens of LAF are more practical/don't seem to care which I prefer.
- On this forum you have a level headed group of experienced mods to calm things down/lock threads, on FB groups their is a tendency towards 'image' over substance so permanent bannings are a risk, although thy don't have the same impact as you generally are only banned from one group at a time.
- The above points can lead to a risk of mob rule the odd time, for example the recent controversy on the gangs of Rome FB page where one user questioned the historic accuracy of female fighters and all the implications therein(to be fair to the guy he asked in a non-emotional/clinical way) and the subsequent shit fest that sprang forth.
I was impressed that the mods didn't go ape at the fellow for asking...was less impressed by the follow up thread (now deleted it seems) where the mods then blanket-called everyone that went against the grain of the argument trolls and proceeded to get very (in my opinion)childish about the whole thing, when a simple no trolls announcement that doesn't encourage the mob would have sufficed.
Personally I will not be making the full switch, I prefer things on here.
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I would totally agree with this statement! I’ve noticed a lot of the guys threads that I tend to follow(there’s certain people, no matter what they do, I’ll check it out when I see their name against it. Ancients, sci fi OR Mylittlepony!) And they seem to have gone quiet. I think the Photobucket thing has knocked the wind out of some people’s sails! It also a crying shame(I’ve mentioned it elsewhere) but the library of information we used to have before the Photobucket thing has been severely damaged!
Agreed. I know for a fact that my activity has taken a hit with the whole Photobucket debackle. I don't post near as many wip pictures as I used to, because I have not yet found a provider that easily lets me do that via my phone.
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I have more or less ceased to post. Mainly because I don't have a private laptop anymore and posting via the mobile outs a hassle.
Facebook and blogger is easy with the mobile so that's where I go.
I do hate Facebook though. It's like screaming out the window trying to get attention briefly.
Blogger is good as an archive of my past and present.
In fact, just writing this on a mobile is clunky.
I miss the laf fellowship though
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- I have noticed(and this is not a criticism) that LAF tends to be the older end of the age distribution, while fb tends to be the younger fellows(of which I am technically a part at 26), as a consequence we see alot more of the kind of issues young people are grappling with on FB(I have noticed that young people tend to be more liberal but also intolerant of other viewpoints, something that research has backed up) while the denizens of LAF are more practical/don't seem to care which I prefer.
It's tough to tackle that point without sounding patronising, which I'm honestly trying not to be. But I think when you get a few grey hairs (a few?!) you realise you've seen the same sort of arguments/passions/issues go round and round a few times (perhaps with a few cosmetic changes) and frankly life's too short to get worked up about things that aren't that important. Maybe not so much wiser, but certainly older with a bit more track record. It can seem cynical to the younger generation and frustratingly pessimistic, but then that's exactly how I felt when I was in my teens and twenties, and now I'm nodding along with the rest of the oldies, saying 'Yup' when I realise I'm saying much the same thing as the oldies back then!
Having said that, I have bucked the trend in that I'm getting more liberal as I get older and less judgemental.
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I agree fully, things tend to come round in cycles, ive noticed it even with trends towards specific periods/aesthetics, for example VBCW was all but dead among the majority, then operation: sealion came out and suddenly we have a massive resurgence!
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I think a lot of the (perceived?) decline of on-line forums can also be atributed to the shorter and shorter attention span of people, in this age of Twitter, bite-sized news snippets and all other shared information. All of these are formatted to be easily digested. On mobile phones.
Since everyone is now used to those small pieces of text, and the TLDR (Too Long, Didn't Read) caption under a written piece (followed up with a one line summary of the text) is becoming more common, the traditional forum platform, which caters to longwinded posts (which I'm no stranger to ::) ), is becoming too slow for a lot of people.
Also, the use of mobile phones for surfing the web is damaging full on participation on forums, because the medium is not suited to the format. in fact, several people have commented that this is the case for them.
So video killed the radio star, and mobiles killed the online forum... :D
Btw: as proof of this hypothesis, check the 3rd reply in this thread; it's longer than most and already mentioned a lot of the points made again by later posters. Was my long text skipped because of TLDR? ;)
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You know, I do kind of miss the early days of LAF, when it was small and I felt like I knew everybody and read almost every single post. Nowadays I seem to stick to my regular LAF haunts and can't escape the feeling that I miss a lot of the good stuff because of the sheer volume of it.
So at least if the predicted triumph of Facebook over forums comes around we'll get to have a second childhood in LAF's twilight years in the old people's home, and those days will return. Every cloud, eh? lol
It's not just FB either. I find it utterly obnoxious for some reason when a forum might have a private board or thread that only a select group can take part in.
Good job LAF doesn't have any of those, then! :-X
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Good job LAF doesn't have any of those, then! :-X
Don't tell me there's a super secret thread for the LAF Illuminati!? :o
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yeah; one can only be invited when one has 5000 posts or more... ;D
On a serious note though; I know the forum software from my time as a Moderator on a different forum many years ago, and the option does exist. Usually simply reserved for moderators to discuss forum things in peace... :)
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Agree 100% with Kommand0_J and Cubs. I have been participating in various online wargaming discussion fora since the early 1990's, beginning with Usenet groups such as rec.games.miniatures.historical. During that time the same kinds of wargaming discussions and debates have tended to appear again and again, including the 'greying/declining/death of the hobby,' often with the very same people taking part!
When I was younger, I enjoyed participating in such lengthy discussions and debates, supporting my views with walls of text and carefully researched evidence. Now as I approach 60, I still frequent a few fora such as LAF, and I still enjoy viewing the results of other peoples' painting skills and answering questions from newer gamers in my selected areas of interest. But I also find that I prefer to spend most of my free time building, painting and playing with my armies of miniatures. It is definitely in the cyclical nature of things - I have 'been there, done that,' and it is time to hand things over to the next generation!
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yeah; one can only be invited when one has 5000 posts or more... ;D
On a serious note though; I know the forum software from my time as a Moderator on a different forum many years ago, and the option does exist. Usually simply reserved for moderators to discuss forum things in peace... :)
Private threads for mods or playtesting make perfect sense. Private threads for what appears to be for the sake of having a private thread is what seems a bit cliquey for my liking. I suppose that's more likely to happen on forums where a clique exists in the first place though. LAF really doesn't appear to have any kind of group or boys club influencing the site or moderation.
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You know, I do kind of miss the early days of LAF, when it was small and I felt like I knew everybody and read almost every single post. Nowadays I seem to stick to my regular LAF haunts and can't escape the feeling that I miss a lot of the good stuff because of the sheer volume of it.
So at least if the predicted triumph of Facebook over forums comes around we'll get to have a second childhood in LAF's twilight years in the old people's home, and those days will return. Every cloud, eh? lol
Good job LAF doesn't have any of those, then! :-X
Totally agree mucka, in some ways a victim of its sustained success a refuge form all the issues already covered. I continue to visit and post where I can but less than I used to mainly for points already raised. I do find as getting older I struggle with technology so the speed of developing apps, devices I see myself as I would have seen my dad back in the day ;D
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Don't tell me there's a super secret thread for the LAF Illuminati!? :o
As far as I know there are some nationality-based private boards. I believe the Swedes have or had one where they can hang out and talk about raw fish and solving grisly murders in their own tongue. Don't know how active or how many others there are, as I don't have access to them myself.
The moderators have a forum where we can bitch about you lot ask each other advice and try to iron out consistent site-wide policies. There was also a forum for planning GLAM, which was a small meet-up in Germany of LAFers, which because of venue size and such was invite-only. The last post on that board is from 2013, mind.
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There is a BLAM one too where we reminisce about the days of empire and plan the resurgence ....mostly used for planning the event , games etc. I believe the secret stuff is intertwined in threads using codes developed at Bletchley Park :D
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I think I will continue to write long articles on the blog .... as one day, it is bound to become fashionable and cool again.
I have noticed as I get older that T.V. adverts no longer relate to me or have people in them that look like me ..... unless they are advertising comfy slippers, inflammation creams or chair risers!
I was therefore somewhat amused to see an advert the other day that bestowed the virtues of a Parker Pen. It was being wielded by a very young person and shown as something desirable. So there we are, the pen has been invented again and once more I am fashionable and cool with my spiders scrawl.
The point being nothing stays the same, but it does re-cycle, hopefully a time will come when information saturation stops and we seek something a little deeper and with greater substance than the limitations that Twitter and FB allow for. But of course we have to want it in the first place and we need some space in our private lives where we can slow down and have some quality time to appreciate fuller content.
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I think I will continue to write long articles on the blog .... as one day, it is bound to become fashionable and cool again.
I was therefore somewhat amused to see an advert the other day that bestowed the virtues of a Parker Pen. It was being wielded by a very young person and shown as something desirable. So there we are, the pen has been invented again and once more I am fashionable and cool with my spiders scrawl.
And I read somewhere on the internet (so it must be true) that all the cool kids are now using disposable cameras that use real film because it's exciting having to wait until the film is developed before you see your pictures....!
Doug
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I'm still here, though the Photo Bucket ransom thing has certainly affected the level of my posts, but I do try and check in once a day during weekdays. I have little modelling time atm, and little to no time at home, so my activity level is low and in the background. Beyond appending images to posts I haven't yet sorted out a means of sharing pics, so I haven't taken any progress shots in a while - if that makes any sense.
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I haven't noticed forum participation here changing much, but I mostly post in a few specific sub-forums so my view isn't very wide.
I will say that as far as specific number of responses to things I post on my own topics, Lead adventure is in the middle of the pack as far as the 3 main forums I visit. I get the most replies and comments at TMP, second most posts at Lead Adventure and the least replies (though most views) at Dakka.
There are outliers when a particular post get's alot of attention at a certain forum but I post my work (usually a few pics, some explanation and a link to our club's blog) at all three sites and the general trend is quite clear.
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I have a feeling that fewer people are taking an active part in the forum discussions both here and on TMP.
I have noticed it, particularly on The Miniatures Page, but also here too. I wonder if this is really the case or just an illusion.
What do you think?
too much negativity in wargaming for me.
I used to be frequent on allot of 40k groups and forums. but they are just filled with some of the most cancerous people ever...
bolt action groups on facebook are full of rivet counting elitist scum who insist you play the way they demand or else the mods ban you...
and generally discussions are just boring and the same stuff over and over again.
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As far as I know there are some nationality-based private boards. I believe the Swedes have or had one where they can hang out and talk about raw fish and solving grisly murders in their own tongue. Don't know how active or how many others there are, as I don't have access to them myself.
The moderators have a forum where we can bitch about you lot ask each other advice and try to iron out consistent site-wide policies. There was also a forum for planning GLAM, which was a small meet-up in Germany of LAFers, which because of venue size and such was invite-only. The last post on that board is from 2013, mind.
The Swedish natural mode of communication is a brief muttering followed by an extended period of utter silence. This is refelcted well in the Swedish sub-board.
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The Swedish natural mode of communication is a brief muttering followed by an extended period of utter silence. This is refelcted well in the Swedish sub-board.
This partly explains why I never understand those Scandi detective series. As an English man I am familiar with reserve, but you Nordic types dial that up to 11, or is it down to -11. Many a time in Wallander there is a complete emotional devastation on screen and the guys just stand around muttering or staring, as though the coffee machine has just broken down. It's a complete mystery to me what's going on inside those heads. o_o
One of the few times I saw an outbreak of emotion was in Oslo when I was waiting for a tram. A local was at the stop too, checking his watch. After a few minutes he checked the timetable on the stop, checked his watch, tutted and walked off. I checked the timetable too and, shock horror, it was one minute late. Sure enough, it then arrived. He's obviously never been to England, where "on time" is defined as "within 10 minutes of the advertised time". And only about 80% of trains manage that in my area, while the buses seem to run on a whim. ::)
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too much negativity in wargaming for me.
I used to be frequent on allot of 40k groups and forums. but they are just filled with some of the most cancerous people ever...
bolt action groups on facebook are full of rivet counting elitist scum who insist you play the way they demand or else the mods ban you...
and generally discussions are just boring and the same stuff over and over again.
I recommend healthy doses of non-GW/non-Warlord Pulp and SciFi skirmish with some It Came From Beyond The Still and zombies thrown in. That'll get you back on your feet in no time lol
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and generally discussions are just boring and the same stuff over and over again.
Well yeah that's history for you... a conflict that lasted just under six years has spawned over seventy years of discussion and argument, you'd imagine the well is running pretty dry by now. It's not like they can introduce a new codex every couple of years and shake the period up... wait, actually 'Armies of Germany' is on its 2nd Edition and FoW has been regurgitating its books for a few years now; clearly history ain't what it used to be for them.
;)
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Well yeah that's history for you... a conflict that lasted just under six years has spawned over seventy years of discussion and argument, you'd imagine the well is running pretty dry by now.
I used to post on the Rorke's Drift site many moons ago. You think six years has limited discussion potential, try a battle that lasted just a few hours! Don't get me wrong, there were some seriously heavy weight historians in there (Mike Snook, Ian Knight, David Rattray, etc..) and it was a pleasure to watch them debate back and forth over things that completely passed me by as a purely amateur fan of the subject matter. But after a while, there's only so much that can be discussed. Whenever a new member turned up with a question, the older heads just answered with a link to the thread where it had been already been discussed!
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I suppose the one facet from that and the endless WWII debates, is that the wargamers' ability to 'wing-it' or just plain make stuff up, is being increasingly limited as time progresses. What units, what vehicles and how many, is increasingly being tied down as research proceeds and more sources become freely available via t'internet.
The research needed to 'get it right' and not have the 'experts' point out all your errors, probably puts a lot of people off. Certainly it does also result in the phenomenon of 'rivet-counting elitist scum' as James described them. The rise of Fantasy, Sci-Fi, VBCW, Imagi-nations and spoon-fed WWII, may well be a reaction to that, although those too sometimes produce their fair share of experts of one kind or another.
Whatever it is you do there always seems to be no shortage of people happy to say you're doing it wrong somehow.
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Whatever it is you do there always seems to be no shortage of people happy to say you're doing it wrong somehow.
This.
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I suppose the one facet from that and the endless WWII debates, is that the wargamers' ability to 'wing-it' or just plain make stuff up, is being increasingly limited as time progresses. What units, what vehicles and how many, is increasingly being tied down as research proceeds and more sources become freely available via t'internet.
The research needed to 'get it right' and not have the 'experts' point out all your errors, probably puts a lot of people off. Certainly it does also result in the phenomenon of 'rivet-counting elitist scum' as James described them. The rise of Fantasy, Sci-Fi, VBCW, Imagi-nations and spoon-fed WWII, may well be a reaction to that, although those too sometimes produce their fair share of experts of one kind or another.
Whatever it is you do there always seems to be no shortage of people happy to say you're doing it wrong somehow.
If you'll allow me, I'd like to point out all the issues with your post...
;)
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This partly explains why I never understand those Scandi detective series. As an English man I am familiar with reserve, but you Nordic types dial that up to 11, or is it down to -11. Many a time in Wallander there is a complete emotional devastation on screen and the guys just stand around muttering or staring, as though the coffee machine has just broken down. It's a complete mystery to me what's going on inside those heads. o_o
One of the few times I saw an outbreak of emotion was in Oslo when I was waiting for a tram. A local was at the stop too, checking his watch. After a few minutes he checked the timetable on the stop, checked his watch, tutted and walked off. I checked the timetable too and, shock horror, it was one minute late. Sure enough, it then arrived. He's obviously never been to England, where "on time" is defined as "within 10 minutes of the advertised time". And only about 80% of trains manage that in my area, while the buses seem to run on a whim. ::)
I don't know whether I should be upset or not that that aspect of Swedish genetics did not survive in my mongrel admixture.
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I recommend healthy doses of non-GW/non-Warlord Pulp and SciFi skirmish with some It Came From Beyond The Still and zombies thrown in. That'll get you back on your feet in no time lol
well warlord has lost my custom anyway.
I was gonna get the 3 halftracks and 30 grenadier deal on Friday the 22nd as the original end date was advertised (and I confirmed via phone call to be told it ends when they close or later on friday). but now its been changed to 20th when I have no cash.
so they lied about that.
so I gotta cancel my Maus from Blitzkrieg as it'll be useless to me.
so no need to worry about the rivet counters now. lol
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If I'm honest, I'm more of a lurker, unless I see the chance of annoying people with a weak pun. I don't have much to say on stuff most of the time and my threads are usually just about displaying the last thing painted. But I enjoy flitting about looking at what others have said and done.
I stalk cubster.
That’s all. :-*
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well warlord has lost my custom anyway.
I was gonna get the 3 halftracks and 30 grenadier deal on Friday the 22nd as the original end date was advertised (and I confirmed via phone call to be told it ends when they close or later on friday). but now its been changed to 20th when I have no cash.
so they lied about that.
so I gotta cancel my Maus from Blitzkrieg as it'll be useless to me.
so no need to worry about the rivet counters now. lol
Not sure if you're the chap, but Warlord offered to keep their offer open for one bloke in the same situation, it may be a bit Late to ask now though?
As to the OP, FB is easier to post pictures to, which is a massive part of the hobby. Esp with forums being held hostage by photobucket etc. But for searching previous queries/threads/how tos etc. Forums win hands down.
It is shocking to me how the likes of frothers has declined, thank god that LAF remains as a varied, well written forum covering (I think) all the major gaming areas. I'm still waiting for Warlord forum to get back online, there seem to be less trollish posts on forums than FB. Maybe it's the general user age? I admit it is much easier to join FB groups than forums which may explain their booming use?
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I'm not on Facebook for various reasons including my profession.
I really like the LAF. A veritable soup of different genres of the hobby, always something new and interesting to look at. I doubt you'd get the same anywhere else.
I'll continue to post here. It's a nice way of keeping track of my hobby progress.
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Different itches. Part of me is most partial to forums where I can write a bit about pictures I'm posting. Facebook groups are a different kind of useful where I can post up pictures quickly with minimal text and no image reformatting. My blog is the one sided conversation where I can be as long winded as I wish and be a control freak about layout. All of them balance in a limited window that takes away from actual hobby time so the time I spend in any is mutable.
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I've never found LAF to be 'strict' in the way you describe, threads get locked if things threaten to spiral(as in the case of gangs of rome) in my experience the only consistent 'no-no' ive found is threads involving colonists versus aboriginal australians which tends to get locked fast...
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funny that, do you know over 40,000 people in one city alone turned out to protest the date of australia day due to it being the date the british invaded? This is an ongoing and serious issue in Australia and one that is utterly divisive.
For comparison, If I said the english was the best thing to ever happen to scotland and the scottish should be grateful for every injustice heaped upon them by the english or they are just being a bit thin skinned ....I suspect you would go full warface in a heartbeat.
I am certain that Scottish members on the forum will have voted for independence, the law of averages would tend towards that. The forum does however not to develop into a political discussion, for example a thread on Culloden, Bannockburn, Glencoe, or whatever historical events in the British isles led to or involved warfare/conquest/colonisation of some description, Ireland, the British empire and colonisation through Empire is also potentially highly contentious in this vein. North, Central and South American and subjugation and what amounts to genocide in some conquests is equally contentious.
Recent conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan have led to a ban on these topics and the control of the boards, I wasn`t overly chuffed personally as I game modern conflicts but can live with it.
I appreciate people can feel passionately about a topic, injustices whether historical or contemporary , this is a forum about playing with toy soldiers not a political message board which is the reason it these topics are closed down. For me if it annoys or irritates I don`t bother replying. Life is too short to argue with members from differing countries, continents, political predilections whatever our personal, national background is.
Variety is the spice of life :D
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I appreciate people can feel passionately about a topic, injustices whether historical or contemporary , this is a forum about playing with toy soldiers not a political message board which is the reason it these topics are closed down. For me if it annoys or irritates I don`t bother replying. Life is too short to argue with members from differing countries, continents, political predilections whatever our personal, national background is.
This sums it up. We all have pet injustices we could bang on about, but we don't, because this is a forum about playing with toy soldiers, not politics - however strongly one feels about a particular topic. The 'no politics' rule is there for a good reason. When talking about toy soldiers, it's quite difficult (although not impossible!) to get angry and start flaming other people. As soon as you cross the line into politics or real world issues, the flaming kicks off. And that's not what this forum is about, and not the atmosphere the overwhelming majority of LAF members want. Overwhelmingly and endlessly, people say they like and value LAF precisely because there is (near) zero tolerance of the vitriol, aggression, trolling, macho posturing and generally obnoxious behaviour that occurs in some other forums connected to the wargames hobby.
It seems there are essentially two kinds of posts you can make on LAF and two replies you can make. Beyond that it can be hard work.
You can either post a picture of your latest paint job/game or you can post a 'where can I find...' request.
To which the only approved answers are either 'that looks great'/'you can find it here' or you can keep quiet.
Really?
You can talk about whatever hobby aspect you like here. You can criticise or disagree - provided it's not in a way that's calculated to start a fight or cause offence to others. The only things you can't do is talk about things that are nothing to do with wargaming. Or be rude or offensive towards other members.
For what it's worth, I promise you that moderation here is actually incredibly light. I don't have stats, but my guess is that there is some form of moderator intervention in one post in a thousand, at most? And most of the time that's moving things that have been put in the wrong place, removing duplicate threads etc.
Perhaps it's just that YOUR posts have been subject to rather a lot of moderation? It could be that the things you are posting or how you are putting things are not in line with the forum rules sometimes? Because that's the only time things get moderated - when they break the rules. It's not a question of the moderators being inflexible or uptight. Our job is to apply the rules of the forum. And everyone can see the rules when they sign up. So if there are some rules that people don't like or can't live with, they shouldn't sign up. That's the case for every club, society or community in the world. But it's a bit rich to sign up and then say 'I don't like your rules or how they are enforced'.
The Prof has near superhuman levels of tolerance and a magnificent commitment to treat everyone with a degree of compassion, care and fairness beyond the call of duty - often in the case of people who are not at all fair in their behaviour towards other members. In 11 years, I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who have actually been banned from LAF. So while moderation may feel tight to you, I suspect to 99% of other members, it feels about right. The civilised, courteous, constructive atmosphere of LAF is a big part of what they come here for. And that's only achieved with a degree of moderation.
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My experience, aside from a couple obvious serial hyperbole posters, is that this is the most brilliant wargaming forum I have ever come across, and the only one I stuck with. While I don't contribute much as no one is interested in my areas of expertise, I voraciously consume the contents of this forum that are of interest me, and where I have sought input from others, the support has been pure win.
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The Prof has near superhuman levels of tolerance and a magnificent commitment to treat everyone with a degree of compassion, care and fairness beyond the call of duty - often in the case of people who are not at all fair in their behaviour towards other members. In 11 years, I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who have actually been banned from LAF. So while moderation may feel tight to you, I suspect to 99% of other members, it feels about right. The civilised, courteous, constructive atmosphere of LAF is a big part of what they come here for. And that's only achieved with a degree of moderation.
I completely agree. I have not noticed the moderation in any way limits my participation or enjoyment of this forum. On the other hand, if you want to behave like a complete (insert anatomical description of choice here), TMP is still accepting members.
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I think that the moderation on LAF is very good.
Actually, I can only remember one intervention ever... last year, I mistakenly posted a photo of a WW2 German Uniform where a Swastika was visible and Captain Blood asked me to change it - which I did.
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Breathe in the love, breathe out the love. ;)
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I have a feeling that fewer people are taking an active part in the forum discussions both here and on TMP.
I have noticed it, particularly on The Miniatures Page, but also here too. I wonder if this is really the case or just an illusion.
I've had this feeling on some other forums (too new here to really notice), and this has led me to do some research on those forums. What I've found is that the number of newly joined people and their activity are a very good indicator of where the forum is going.
So, these are the questions that need to be answered, if you want some objectivity to back up or counter your feeling:
- Is the rate of newly joined people the same it was a year or two ago, or is it lower or higher?
- Is the percentage of newly joined posters the same it was a year or two ago, or is it ower or highter?
- Is the percentage of newly joined active posters (active = x posts per month) equal in relation to their time on the forum?
Usually, all of these indicators move in the same direction.
If none of these indicators show substantial changes or decrease, the forum is as it used to be, or may actually be growing.
If one or all of these indicators show a decrease, you can say forum activity is decreasing.
Over my 15 years on internet fora, I've seen forums blossom, wane, re-blossom and die. It also looks like it's a rather small group on a forum that makes it blossom. If that group grows tired and moves on, the forum will wane. It's extremely rare for a forum to re-blossom without the people of its first blossoming. Then again if the old guard stays, a forum will never fully die, and will be having a social function, even if the activity wanes.
I have also noticed that a lot of manufacturers are using Facebook to show their new launches and product development. It may be that this is the reason behind reducing traffic on the forums.
I think the new generation simply doesn't find forums sexy, and the gamers don't find this kind of forums sexy. Facebook allows a much more instant access, and it allows Likes, which very few forums do. Then again Facebook is full of groups and small manufacturers which generate very very little activity. It's full of dead groups. Forums that establish tend to be more durable. Of course some forums struggle to estabish, remain forever small, and die easily. In general, there are more social platforms, and this naturally leads to a more splintered scene, as people use this or that platform and maybe completely avoid some other platforms. So splintering is true. However, the multitude of social platforms has also helped more people to join the social media. Most tend to group around where the others go, i.e. sexy places, which means some platforms/fora/FB groups are huge whereas many stay small. Then again people tend to frequent many different platforms/fora/groups. I'm member of at least a dozen.
I think LAF is a great place, full of interesting stuff generated by talented people, and very professionally and invisibly moderated. I also like that is has no place for non-miniature, non-wargames, non-hobby discussions. The mission statement is clear, and the moderation is clearly in keeping with that.
When it comes to the style and quality of comments, we all comment what we want, how we want. Most questions of quality tend to be about goals and opinions. It's useless to play a critical miniature-elitist for someone who is starting to build an army purely for gaming, often cheaply. Recognize what the others are doing, ask if it's unclear, and make sure your cheers, suggestions and criticism are fruitful for HIS/HER project, not a celebration of YOUR attitudes. I'm pretty sure the forum guidelines say the same.
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For comparison, If I said the english was the best thing to ever happen to scotland and the scottish should be grateful for every injustice heaped upon them by the english or they are just being a bit thin skinned ....I suspect you would go full warface in a heartbeat.
As a Scot I find that a wee bit offensive, we're a patriotic race to be sure, but to assume we're going to fly off the handle at the slightest provocation is a bit patronising. Maybe Australians have got a warped view of Scotland and its history, I know one that certainly has; Mel Gibson, I'm looking at you - FREEDOM!
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For what it's worth I have never found the moderation to be excessive and have appreciated it when action has been taken. I left tmp many years ago because it became almost pointless to discuss anything in many threads. Plus some people (some!) were just arseholes (again my opinion). I'm not overly sensitive, I just can't be bothered with the hassle. I very rarely feel like that on the LAF, if ever.
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I'm a fairly new member of LAF and I've always found it a relatively difficult forum to interact with.
That's because of its extremely tight moderation.
There are times when I've been thankful for that and times I've been incredibly frustrated by that.
It seems there are essentially two kinds of posts you can make on LAF and two replies you can make. Beyond that it can be hard work.
You can either post a picture of your latest paint job/game or you can post a 'where can I find...' request.
To which the only approved answers are either 'that looks great'/'you can find it here' or you can keep quiet.
That kind of restriction makes true forum participation a chore, since there's not much more you can really say about the hobby.
I'm not sure how you participate with this forum beyond that, the moderation makes it incredibly hard. I have the feeling LAF has always been so inflexible, so hard to see how it's changed.
As I said, there are times I have been pleased with such martinet behaviour and times where I've found that slavish devotion to rules dumbfounding and alienating. I know it's made it hard to think of myself as a LAFer. And I know the wider hobby acknowledges LAF for such limited behaviour.
So I reckon participation with this forum is what it is and what it always has been. Which, for me, means limited reason to come and use LAF but genuine gratitude for the limited need I have.
Oh, and no - I don't know what the answer is, and no - I don't think it should loosen up to the extent of some sites. It would be nice if it wasn't quite so uptight though...
I really don’t recognise the forum as you describe it.
I’ve been here a while and I know quite a few members personally and/or in person. I post a lot less than I used to but I do post when I am hoping for comment. (If I don’t get comment, my threads tend to tail off as like all conversations they are either concluded or whither.)
Not so long ago I started an Old West project thread. Loads of interaction, mostly from people I don’t know. Sound advice prompted me to go back and rebuild items that weren’t right. LAFers were a great help to me in achieving a result that I am very pleased with: their participation being unlike how you describe it.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=105278.165 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=105278.165)
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I'm a fairly new member of LAF and I've always found it a relatively difficult forum to interact with.
That's because of its extremely tight moderation...
That this thread has run for nine pages and your post has not been edited or deleted, nor some punitive action taken against you for speaking out, I'd say is evidence against tight moderation. I can think of one forum where criticism of the forum/owner/mods would attract any or all of those measures.
Like any place LAF has its own culture, which is a product of how the 'hive mind' of its membership like things to be. The mods have all been members too and have absorbed that culture on the way. I know some folk here that you wouldn't recognise by their attitude and posts on other forums.
Sit tight, ignore the pod-like thing that will presently appear near your bed and I'm sure before long you'll feel far more a part of things here.
;)
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I don`t post all that often, but I do like lurking and looking at the fab, sometimes annoyingly fabulous work of people on this very august forum :o lol
I like the forum model and will refuse to move over to FacearseTM (Facebook), unless there is nothing else to go to >:(
As for model companies not reaching me, well its their loss as far as I am concerned, but it does point to how things are changing in wargames/RPG land.
I am not entirely happy about it, but what can one man do?
Except shout "Long Live the Lead Adventure!" :-* lol
Glen
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I like the forum model. It allows for a more measured and complete response and easily followed threads that can be traced back for future reference.
Im not a fan of social media, which seems to be more about instant responses and promotion, and which feels restless and rushed..but I expect I'll be left behind by this.
I dont contribute much here,mostly as my active engagement was until recently elsewhere [see below] but at least in the boards I usually go to, good behaviour seems the norm.
I am currently mourning the apparent demise of The Guild, where there was a huge melding of knowledge and expertise, especially on WW2, all willingly shared, and promoted by several figure companies, that I would not have heard about otherwise. I couldn't perceive of that sort of resource being available via Facebook.
I dont care about getting "likes"..if I post photos of my toys I don't need to tot up points!
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I just delete these without reading them dumb c***.
Scurv, I really am just trying to help. Please seek some advice https://mhaustralia.org/need-help (https://mhaustralia.org/need-help)