Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: modiphius on 21 January 2018, 12:42:24 PM
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I've got some ideas for a project so interested so see who's playing in this scale. I've been collecting the old GW Battle of the Five Armies, Warmaster (which is a little bigger or BotFA is smaller than 10mm), as well as various 10mm Ancients and fantasy lines.
I've found there's not a lot of choice for 10mm ancients/fantasy buildings or fortresses - what there is feels a bit bit for the scale. So if you're playing in 10mm scale let us know what you're doing with it?
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When Warmaster first came on the scene the club I was then with took it up with great relish.
I painted a Dwarf force, played two games, bought a lot of skeletons to provide opposition,
however a few of the club soon worked out how to win and interest waned.
They have been 'on the shelf' since then. I got them down last year when a fellow LAFer expressed interest in
purchasing Warmaster figures, in the end he did not. This is (yet another) 'to be completed' project.
At the time my lovely wife bought me (from a pet store) a fish tank ornament, which with a little work became
a ruined castle suitable for 10mm base camp. This Christmas I hinted at another piece, suitable for 28mm.
My 'hinting' was not very good, as I got another, though different, ruined castle suitable for 10mm !!!!!!
Could this be natures way of getting me back into Warmaster?
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10mm Fantasy is the main stay of our gaming group. We all have original Warmaster armies, often of huge sizes, and several of us have expanded our armies (both in units and number of armies) the first round of expansion was inspired by Kings of War, and we have added other stuff from various sources (Pendraken's Warband, LoTR, more recent GW, Historicals, etc).
Photos of my stuff are
here for older WM stuff http://www.kerynne.com/games/WMElf.html
and newer stuff here https://fantasticalarmies.blogspot.co.uk
Rules wise we moved away from Warmaster; we tried Hail Caesar for a bit (with Fantasy mods, which were available on Yahoo Groups); Kings or War - pretty much using the 28mm unit footprints, filled with hordes of 10mm figures; Irregular Wars - great rules, but didn't scale to mass battle; and currently we are using home brew rules based on 40mm square bases, which ticks all the boxes for us.
While we have many rulesets that we play (frankly too many) we always get a number of 10mm fantasy games in during a year.
Fortifications wise - we don't tend to use these too much in our games. Which is a shame, one member of our group has a large amount of the Kallistra Castle, which is great to have, as towers and bits of walls can be used. I have a Roman Fortified Camp from Baggage Train, and a North African fort from Total Battle miniatures. But these tend to be used more as scenario than within our games.
Have you seen the mdf castle from Supreme Littleness, looks very flexible and nice.
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In the picture below you can see almost all the terrain I have for 10mm:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Rp6_kYbaGwI/S6-cv9TgwzI/AAAAAAAAAlw/cp3v6fsBjnw/s1600/P3280003.JPG)
But we normally only use hills and forests in our battles:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Rp6_kYbaGwI/S-iPJi5KDXI/AAAAAAAAAsM/25NPJYYKaG0/s1600/WS+04.JPG)
We also played BOFA, but once we played it a couple of times I sold all the minis as they were smaller and of plastic:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9nNkBCMCgQk/UPPyBu9_ikI/AAAAAAAAC2A/H09Z7QYf8yc/s1600/BOFA+03.png)
We usually play once or twice per year or every two or three years now; not much but there are so many games and rules to play that we do not have much time, and also our interest in Warmaster has fade a little. We also tried HC and now currently playing Art of War.
This thread has reminded me that I still have to paint some Polar Fox blisters I bought two years ago to finish my 2k Orc army:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-95enlD838ec/UXpA2cpLWUI/AAAAAAAADM0/yk7kByfX2zY/s1600/orcs+020.jpg)
If you're interested, you can see some reports of Warmaster as well as the 10mm gallery in my blog: http://javieratwar.blogspot.com.es/
Cheers,
J.
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A mate and I did up some 10mm armies- playing KoW with scale reduced by 2 or 3 times, if I remember right. Unfortunately, it kind of fizzled out. Playing on a coffee table was appealing in some ways, but it's very cramped, and I sold mine off for other things.
Is this project of yours personal or professional? I'd definitely get back into 10mm if someone produced minis that I like- the Pendraken/Kallistra ones just don't really tickle my fancy.
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I have thought about getting into 10mm fantasy but have hummed and hawed over figures etc, hence bugger all has been done! :)
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I have a not quite started project to do 10mm dungeon crawl/skirmish games.
I have the figures (some old Warmaster and some newer ones whose name escapes me). For dungeon scenery I'm thinking either about the nano hulk scenery from Honeybee Works or scaling down down some of the fat dragon 2d tiles I have. 3d printing is also rolling about in my head as a possibility.
I have a couple of the old resin buildings that GW did at the time of Warmaster (fairly sure it was them). I also recently backed the Cities of the Black Scrolls kickstarter for more 2d scenery. 2d is not as satisfying as 3d, but I'm thinking more skirmish level stuff than army battles, mainly for space reasons.
I'm just about to pick out my next group of figures to paint, so perhaps it's time to actually start this project ;D
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For 10mm Dungeons have a look at Pendraken, they offer a very nice resin dungeon and a number of dungeon monsters too.
For 10mm Fantasy Magister Militum are always worth a look - they have expanded their ranges significantly recently, and have lots of core fantasy stuff, but also plenty of unusual stuff.
Pendraken and Kallistra as already mentioned - its worth noting that Kallistras ranges and Pendraken's fantasy ranges are bigger than most other 10mm ranges, probably 12mm. Pendraken's historical troops are true 10mm. Pendraken have recently aquired the very nice TB Line models, and are working to get these back into production
Warmonger have a very nice range of Landsckneckts
Old Glory have medieval troops
Trolls under the bridge have various troops
Polar Fox have Orcs, Trolls and Knights
Laran Miniatures (on indiegogo as evil men) have a range of chaos/ evil men (surprisingly enough!)
Copplestone (now through North Star) have lots of LoTR stuff, and their 15mm ranges offer interesting Ogre sized figures.
I also often use 6mm or 15mm stuff, Splintered Light have lots of very nice stuff and their creatures are fairly scale neutral.
So there are a lot of manufacturers out there - it can take a bit of hunting around.
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Hey guys loving the pics of the collections out there, rules wise I've been trying some different ones - shout if you've tried these I'd love to hear your feedback:
Mayhem - great set of fantasy mass combat rules that uses polyhedral dice - for example your melee is maybe a d8 - roll the dice and risk it, or take the average of 4 as your fixed result, maybe your move is a d10 - move 5 or risk it to get over 5. Lots of rules for sieges, etc etc. Army building is super easy.
https://bombshell-games.com/mayhem/ (https://bombshell-games.com/mayhem/)
Mortem et Gloriam - technically an ancients system but they have some fantasy lists. Custom dice and card deck, seems to be causing a stir in the ancients community and it's used for upwards of 28mm scale but it's perfect for 10mm. You can use it for solo and more.
http://www.thewargameszone.org/62/The-Ancients-Zone-Mortem-et-Gloriam (http://www.thewargameszone.org/62/The-Ancients-Zone-Mortem-et-Gloriam)
Of the two Mortem et Gloriam seems to be actively supporting the community whereas Mayhem seems like a dusty gem that is worth revisiting. I played out a pretty similar battle with both and both had it's pros and cons - haven't quite decided which I prefer. I haven't gone back to warmaster as yet as I think there's so much more to be done with rulesets and who doesn't like trying a new system...!
Has anyone found any other sets suitable for 10mm?
One thing I want to do is convert the solo rules we're developing for Fallout Wasteland Warfare to work for mass combat units and I think it might work - each type of unit has a behaviour card and if I test it will do a battle report for you. I've yet to see an AI wargame system that actually follows objectives without a ton of lengthy rolling on tables - shout if you have!
I did pick up some small castle walls - 6mm scale from http://www.levenminiatures.co.uk/pages/castle.htm (http://www.levenminiatures.co.uk/pages/castle.htm) and they look much better for 10mm though i do like these desert castles http://www.totalbattleminiatures.com/fortressanddefence/10mm/northafrica.html (http://www.totalbattleminiatures.com/fortressanddefence/10mm/northafrica.html)
I may well be considering doing 'something' with 10mm scale - for example I've seen how Battlefront have converted their 15mm main troops in to pvc plastics and I know we could get a 'lot' of 10mm lines of infantry in a similar mould at a scale to match the old warmaster. Then do the big creatures and buildings in resin, etc. It's still a fun project but who knows. Would you want PVC sprues for 10mm units if they were the right price?
I'll do some shots of my collection this week - I tend to collect stuff that 'looks cool' and create a narrative for why they might be in a game. I picked up some Persian ancients recently at Reading Warfare (they will be a far of kingdom that sends aid) and another Republican Roman force is going to be the last legion from the besieged city of Londinium. My plan is to do a narrative series of missions with a small force of the leader bases moving around trying to gather allies, making diplomatic rolls, dealing with smaller ambushes (special events), gradually acquiring units and then facing a larger battle. I particularly love story based wargames (as you might guess) so my goal is to create the type of wargame we just dive into where the story isn't just a bit of text at the beginning of the stats.
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I may well be considering doing 'something' with 10mm scale - for example I've seen how Battlefront have converted their 15mm main troops in to pvc plastics and I know we could get a 'lot' of 10mm lines of infantry in a similar mould at a scale to match the old warmaster. Then do the big creatures and buildings in resin, etc. It's still a fun project but who knows. Would you want PVC sprues for 10mm units if they were the right price?
Yes, a thousand times yes. However, it would depend on how easily the details would translate to that medium. I can guess that you wouldn’t be able to get Warmaster levels of detail, but as long as you could get some I’d be in for a bunch of them.
Have you tried Pendraken’s Warband system?
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I was very keen on 10mm but with my favourite range stalled and such a long wait for the Eureka Hawkmoon figures I have flogged off most of my stuff. Plus the old eyes aren't up to it now.
By the way I noticed that Eureka have just announced the first pack in their Hawkmoon range.
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For dungeon crawling Pendraken's is quite good:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QG-WVGFpn-I/TYsk9HRD8kI/AAAAAAAABJM/1Tj0d8XKMDA/s1600/Einar%2527s%2B023.jpg)
To play solo games there is Rally Round the king from Two Hour Wargames. Check this blog: http://talomir.blogspot.com.es/ (http://talomir.blogspot.com.es/)
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Plastic 10mm figures would certainly be interesting. The only thing that tempers my enthusiasm is that I already have 19 fantasy 10mm armies. So justifying a new one is hard. As is finding a new one that is different.
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Plastic 10mm figures would certainly be interesting. The only thing that tempers my enthusiasm is that I already have 19 fantasy 10mm armies. So justifying a new one is hard. As is finding a new one that is different.
As I have a lot, agreed it would need to be something we need but also something popular for new customers to want.
One thing I wanted to mention is I love the look of the BoFA plastic regiments - they 'look' more like massed ranks of figures that feels right for this scale, whilst I find some of the warmaster figures are too spread out - a good example is archers where they are typically individual figures and you don't get the feeling of massed ranks. Anyone else have a preference or found one or more suppliers who's 10mm troops are better at giving that big regiment feel?
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I suppose all the figures that are cast individually can be put on as small or large a base as you like with as many or few miniatures as you desire - and if cast in spacious strips, cutting those up to place them closer together should work too.
I fairly recently joined a 10mm Warhammer Fantasy/9th Age project, on Facebook under the name Minihammer. Basically using any 10mm figures you like to play the aforementioned rules, halving all the distances. Warbases now has a special page on their shop with all halved bases (12.5x25mm for cavalry for example). Given that the models are scaled down more than the bases, they're certainly spacious, but games can be as small or large as you like. After some absence, it also feels good to once again work on a Warhammer army, especially one I was never able to collect at the time (Kislev, using Pendraken's Renaissance Polish figures, among others). Once I have a bunch done, I could imagine getting some small gangs for stuff like 10mm Mordheim too - acquiring the necessary scenery won't take up nearly as much space in 10mm.
As for scenery companies, some model railway scale should work - is it N scale?
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10mm Warhammer sounds an interesting project. Not sure I could be doing with individual figure removal in 10mm (not that keen on it in 28mm!!) but its cool that you can put together new armies.
Yes N Guage is the closest model railway scale to 10mm.
As to figures in strips - for close combat troops the Warmaster and BoFA figures were great - they were clearly designed as strips, rather than just single figures side by side on a large base. This meant that they were strong, and that they were quick to paint as you pretty much just had the fronts and backs to paint, and very few sides. This did speed up painting time.
But for Archers I prefer single (or paired) figures like Warmaster rather than BoFA strips. I always found the BoFA archers hard to tell apart from the combat troops, as they looked too similar.
Likewise for cavalry I think I prefer single figures - and often cut up WM pairs, as with cavarly they were generally only joined on small parts.
But you are right that having troops cast together does allow a much higher density of troops than trying to fit single based ones together (and is much easier).
This thread does highlight that there is a gap for a good set of 10mm focused mass battle rules (and a similar thread asking about 6mm rules).
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Yes N scale works - there's a bunch of castles but I generally feel they're too big - great set pieces but not practical for a game. I've been looking at a lot of threads recommending using 6mm scale buildings with 10mm figures and they seem to 'feel' right - plus allowing you to have a lot more buildings on the table (oh yeah and cheaper!)
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I think "strip" figures always look like strips. It is why I really dislike Baccus 6mm stuff....lovely detail but so rigid and artificial.
It is OK for 7yrs War and possibly OK for Napoleonic and WAS/WSS but looks wrong for anything else.
Lines of troops need to be slightly irregular and imperfect. Individual figures, although a right PITA to base initially, always look far superior to strips.
As for rules I think the advantage of smaller scales is to get more battle in the same area (rather than the same battle in a smaller area argument) and tend towards mass battle rules in which players control an army rather than a brigade. Volley and Bayonet for Napoleonics and after, Impetus and Tercios for anything before. Single big bases for the whole unit, no formations (other than those modelled on the bases).
It would be great to see big bases of Orcs with each base an amorphous mix of weapon types and figure styles and sizes, maybe a couple of Trolls in the mix facing off against another big base of Human Sword and Spear men arranged in chevrons with Pavise lines and some supporting rear rank archers.
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I've finally got around to getting my GW BoFA figures painted. Using a painting service though whilst I concentrate on my 28mm backlog. I was planning to use Copplestone/Pendraken/ magister military to add to my forces. Rules wise I was going to use Sword & Spear Fantasy.
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I think "strip" figures always look like strips. It is why I really dislike Baccus 6mm stuff....lovely detail but so rigid and artificial.
It is OK for 7yrs War and possibly OK for Napoleonic and WAS/WSS but looks wrong for anything else.
Lines of troops need to be slightly irregular and imperfect. Individual figures, although a right PITA to base initially, always look far superior to strips.
As for rules I think the advantage of smaller scales is to get more battle in the same area (rather than the same battle in a smaller area argument) and tend towards mass battle rules in which players control an army rather than a brigade. Volley and Bayonet for Napoleonics and after, Impetus and Tercios for anything before. Single big bases for the whole unit, no formations (other than those modelled on the bases).
It would be great to see big bases of Orcs with each base an amorphous mix of weapon types and figure styles and sizes, maybe a couple of Trolls in the mix facing off against another big base of Human Sword and Spear men arranged in chevrons with Pavise lines and some supporting rear rank archers.
I hate the individual basing thing, I gotta say. I do agree with you that they always look like strips, but part of the appeal (to me) of smaller scales is simply getting loads of bodies on the table as quickly as possible. I think that, for example, Polar Fox's goblins maintain a chaotic enough look for hordes while maintaining the convenience of strip basing.
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Take a look at Irregular Miniatures' line of 10mm figures as well. They don't have the level of detail that official GW figures have, but they compare favorably to Pendraken. They paint up well and look great once you get them on the table.
I just painted up a high elf warband this past weekend. Will probably use "Song of..." or somesuch with them.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jWDveZR4t4U/WmUta86yKDI/AAAAAAAAEYs/pArYVXW0G8IphcWyenKruAfQZjAUZ49qgCLcBGAs/s1600/DSC01521.JPG)
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As for rules I think the advantage of smaller scales is to get more battle in the same area (rather than the same battle in a smaller area argument) and tend towards mass battle rules in which players control an army rather than a brigade. Volley and Bayonet for Napoleonics and after, Impetus and Tercios for anything before. Single big bases for the whole unit, no formations (other than those modelled on the bases).
It would be great to see big bases of Orcs with each base an amorphous mix of weapon types and figure styles and sizes, maybe a couple of Trolls in the mix facing off against another big base of Human Sword and Spear men arranged in chevrons with Pavise lines and some supporting rear rank archers.
Big single bases can look really good. After years of 40x20mm warmaster bases, starting to use bigger bases is very liberating.
Bigger bases can be seen in some of the Pendraken Warband armies that players have made - and they have made use of the space to create formations and vignettes.
I've seen similar for other rules, Impetus and for Franco-Prussian War as well.
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S&S Fantasy can work with either several 40mmx20mm DBA style bases for a single unit or Impetus style big bases. As Warmaster bases are 40mmxs20mm as well, it all converts rather nicely.
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Big single bases can look really good. After years of 40x20mm warmaster bases, starting to use bigger bases is very liberating.
Bigger bases can be seen in some of the Pendraken Warband armies that players have made - and they have made use of the space to create formations and vignettes.
Throwing figures down on bigger bases can also make it a lot easier to identify troop types as well. A big base with three to five figures on it is a much better approximation of skirmishers than just one or two lone figures out front of a big block, too. Same thing applies to impetuous warbands versus well ordered close-drill infantry.
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How do the different 10mm ranges - Irregular, Pendraken, Copplestone etc compare for size?
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Most of the 10mm stuff works together pretty well. The main exception is Kallistra and Pendraken Fantasy (not Pendraken historical) those two ranges are noticeably bigger around 12mm. You wouldn't want to mix Kallistra on the same base as GW, they might be OK in the same army, and they are certainly fine in opposing armies.
Even the GW warmaster range was far from scale consistent across the different armies. The GW cavalry tends to be bigger than most of the other manufacturers (except Kallistra!)
There are some stylistic differences, a lot of Magister Militum stuff is chunkier than most other manufacturers.
Fortunately as its fantasy its much easier to get away with some size differences.
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I've been doing Heroquest and Crom in 10mm. The Coppelstone figures are the best, and Pendraken offers some cool scenery as well. My smallish fantasy village is from Epsilon. I got it really cheap at my local gaming store.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4605/28050726279_087ec60337_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JJKiDH)10mm village (https://flic.kr/p/JJKiDH) by oldben1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26861900@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4755/39094414324_dd4cb89007_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22yD6mh)Wolves (https://flic.kr/p/22yD6mh) by oldben1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26861900@N00/), on Flickr
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4746/25932155208_b224f13e63_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Fvx5hh)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/Fvx5hh) by oldben1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/26861900@N00/), on Flickr
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Very nice!
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I should be able to get some side by sides up this weekend. I think the Irregular, Pendraken, and Copplestone figures all work great together. At that scale things are fiddly enough that a few mm either way doesn't really make that big of a difference.
But then, I also use 6mm hero knights as 10mm halflings, so what do I know!
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Love the pics - I've been thinking about doing some rpg style missions with the 10mm general/heroes - being able to do much more in the play area would be great.
What would you all love to see in 10mm fantasy that's not been done yet, or done properly - a good range of heroes, creatures, more buildings, certain armies, certain stories or IP's?
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Love the pics - I've been thinking about doing some rpg style missions with the 10mm general/heroes - being able to do much more in the play area would be great.
What would you all love to see in 10mm fantasy that's not been done yet, or done properly - a good range of heroes, creatures, more buildings, certain armies, certain stories or IP's?
That’s a tough question. I’m not so fussed about IP, sometimes that can be too restrictive. I’d love to see Rick Priestly do a WMv2 for rules though.
I think the biggest problem with most ranges out there is the lack of detail and variety in the sculpts. Then there’s the issue of incomplete ranges. The best 10mm fantasy range available now is the Eureka Lizardmen, IMO. Closely followed by Warmonger’s renaissance mercenaries (cough) range, and Copplestone’s definitely not-LOTR stuff. I think that it would be important to do 5-6 races and do them well. Big beasties, variety in the infantry sculpts, and good quality characters.
I’ve been thinking about getting some fantasy Eastern Europeans sculpted up and cast, but just need to find the spare cash...
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What would you all love to see in 10mm fantasy that's not been done yet, or done properly - a good range of heroes, creatures, more buildings, certain armies, certain stories or IP's?
As I mentioned in an earlier post on the pulp forum I would be very interested in seeing a range of Buck Rogers figures and models faithful to the original Nowlan "Armageddon 2419AD" and "Airships of Han" books.
Lots of opportunities for great models from "Rocket" men through Anti Gravity flyers to remote control attack drones and hover tanks. Has pitched battles, sieges and commando style raids for various different scope games.
Sci-fantasy or Retro sci-fi rather than high fantasy, but certainly nothing suitable for it at the moment.
Don't know if TSR (as subsumed by WotC) still have the IP following their 1993 release:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Adventure_Cliffhangers_Buck_Rogers_Adventure_Game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Adventure_Cliffhangers_Buck_Rogers_Adventure_Game)
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Most of the 10mm stuff works together pretty well.
Okay, here's a couple of comparison shots from the peanut gallery:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CPuut-LhPwo/WmwWDzS17nI/AAAAAAAAEZ0/-AFbRnK2H2wZ4ufElzmP2c1mIXzGbta_QCLcBGAs/s1600/DSC01761.JPG)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GkZjXJJLeB0/WmwWD4z1jkI/AAAAAAAAEZ4/M4ILA7MCZ5Y8hp_8wxzFjaoaT77V6OH0ACLcBGAs/s1600/DSC01762.JPG)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oDwfLGTfBLQ/WmwWD9H7vNI/AAAAAAAAEZ8/-7G4rtvjFBUoj-n5clQhhGiVA5phiL3qwCLcBGAs/s1600/DSC01763.JPG)
Sorry for the focus on that last one. You can see the heights well enough. That's a Copplestone, Pendraken (I think - I might have those two reversed) and Irregular elf in each shot. Bear in mind we're comparing wood elves to high elves, so in my mind a little height difference is understandable.
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As in many scales, elves seem to always be a disappointment. The Irregular elves look quite good. Those with Copplestone for everything else would work quite well. I still like 28mm for fantasy, but I would use that only for skirmishes/small battles. For truly epic battles I would rather go for 15 or 10mm (I know some do great work with 6mm - and I like it for Napoleonics - but for fantasy that just seems too small).
I might now have three projects.............
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Interesting that those Irregular Elves are so much bigger.
Kind of links to my earlier point that not all ranges are consistent with themselves.
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Despite being an entrenched 28mm gamer I am always tempted by the Copplestone 10mm fantasy range.
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Not strictly fantasy but I'd love there would be a non John Carter of Mars 10mm range with Green Men, Red men and all kind of beasts and monsters and other things like skiffs.
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Not strictly fantasy but I'd love there would be a non John Carter of Mars 10mm range with Green Men, Red men and all kind of beasts and monsters and other things like skiffs.
Well given our license an official one might be possible ;-)
As there's lots of pretty good general fantasy lines already if we were to do something I'd try to focus on something different yet popular that would give some added value.
What I am also looking for next is THE rule set that really brings out the strengths of 10mm. Of course Warmaster is there but it's not being supported. As I've mentioned Mayhem and Mortem et Gloriam seem to be great contenders, and people have mentioned Mantic's Kings of War, Rally Round the King etc. What level of detail do you want at this scale?
- Do we want to be making detailed reaction or morale tests or enjoying the grand sweep of the battle?
- I think we might all agree we want to see the hero or hero led unit making a difference
- Magic is important but do we care about individual attacks spells - maybe magic at this scale really should be battlefield magic - the whole enemy flank finds itself beset by flies, or sinking in mud which results in a modifier, less attach dice whatever next turn?
- Terror has an impact as dragons, undead or other unearthly beasts make an appearance
Are you playing this scale really to get a Kings of War or Warhammer scale battle inside a smaller table OR to zoom out and have a huge battle where many of the things that would matter at Kings of War / 28mm scale don't really matter now. Perhaps the question should be what DONT you want to be rolling tests for at this scale?
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We want big battles, lots of units, some command uncertainty (but not to WM levels) lots of movement (far more than is realistic for a medieval style battle!), units with strengths and weaknesses, magic that is useful but doesn't dominate. Big Monsters - this is another of 10mm's strengths, and is perhaps a gap in the current market, GW made big monsters for WM, but not many of the current manufactures do, beyond a few elephants / mammoths.
We ended up creating a own home brew rules to fit the the above (well apart from making big monsters).
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Well given our license an official one might be possible ;-)
As there's lots of pretty good general fantasy lines already if we were to do something I'd try to focus on something different yet popular that would give some added value.
What I am also looking for next is THE rule set that really brings out the strengths of 10mm. Of course Warmaster is there but it's not being supported. As I've mentioned Mayhem and Mortem et Gloriam seem to be great contenders, and people have mentioned Mantic's Kings of War, Rally Round the King etc. What level of detail do you want at this scale?
- Do we want to be making detailed reaction or morale tests or enjoying the grand sweep of the battle?
- I think we might all agree we want to see the hero or hero led unit making a difference
- Magic is important but do we care about individual attacks spells - maybe magic at this scale really should be battlefield magic - the whole enemy flank finds itself beset by flies, or sinking in mud which results in a modifier, less attach dice whatever next turn?
- Terror has an impact as dragons, undead or other unearthly beasts make an appearance
Are you playing this scale really to get a Kings of War or Warhammer scale battle inside a smaller table OR to zoom out and have a huge battle where many of the things that would matter at Kings of War / 28mm scale don't really matter now. Perhaps the question should be what DONT you want to be rolling tests for at this scale?
I think that Fred sums up what I'd be looking for in a game at this scale- especially the sense of ordering and maneuvering troops around.
That's a reasonable point about IP, but it's tough to think of one that hasn't already been exploited. I mean, you guys have a relationship with Bethesda now, so something in their Tamriel could be really quite fun (though it'd obviously be quite different in scale to the video game experience- but I think that's a good thing). They've got pretty well everything you'd need to make a 10mm game appealing- lots of variety of races, big scary monsters, etc. The only thing is whether such large-scale battles are part of the lore? Also, would there be sufficient variety of units?
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I think that Fred sums up what I'd be looking for in a game at this scale- especially the sense of ordering and maneuvering troops around.
That's a reasonable point about IP, but it's tough to think of one that hasn't already been exploited. I mean, you guys have a relationship with Bethesda now, so something in their Tamriel could be really quite fun (though it'd obviously be quite different in scale to the video game experience- but I think that's a good thing). They've got pretty well everything you'd need to make a 10mm game appealing- lots of variety of races, big scary monsters, etc. The only thing is whether such large-scale battles are part of the lore? Also, would there be sufficient variety of units?
Working with IP's can be good and bad - recognition but as you say maybe not sufficient variety of units without inventing stuff that people then aren't familiar with especially when you get in to organised units. Vanilla fantasy can be just that 'nice to have' but not 'OMG I have to get that'!
Agree with Fred on the big monsters - surprised companies haven't done any that are exciting. I can imagine sorcerers throwing fireballs at the unit level, but this might have the same effect as a well placed volley or archery (which can also frighten the hell out of you if you just saw all your friends drop with arrows through them), so maybe when we zoom out to 10mm level on the grande scale the only magic that really matters is what affects the battlefield as a whole or whole groups of units?
I agree on more movement than realistic - there's nothing so boring as seeing a massive army, grind it's way closer then it's basically a dice war to see who crumbles. I want to see units racing for the ruins to stop the sorcerer, a last stand over here, a desperate push across the river before it's too late, a mad flanking sweep and so on.
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I agree on more movement than realistic - there's nothing so boring as seeing a massive army, grind it's way closer then it's basically a dice war to see who crumbles. I want to see units racing for the ruins to stop the sorcerer, a last stand over here, a desperate push across the river before it's too late, a mad flanking sweep and so on.
I don't want to over sell myself right now ,But I've been working on a ruleset recently for rank and flank fantasy/historicals that fixes this.
It gets rid of dice compltley and focuses entirely on battlefield manoeuvring and out thinking your opponent.
i remember watching a demo game throughout the day at salute.A beautiful ancients game, But after about 4 hours the two armies were still trudging towards each other.very dull,even if it was accurate! lol
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Working with IP's can be good and bad - recognition but as you say maybe not sufficient variety of units without inventing stuff that people then aren't familiar with especially when you get in to organised units. Vanilla fantasy can be just that 'nice to have' but not 'OMG I have to get that'!
Agree with Fred on the big monsters - surprised companies haven't done any that are exciting. I can imagine sorcerers throwing fireballs at the unit level, but this might have the same effect as a well placed volley or archery (which can also frighten the hell out of you if you just saw all your friends drop with arrows through them), so maybe when we zoom out to 10mm level on the grande scale the only magic that really matters is what affects the battlefield as a whole or whole groups of units?
I agree on more movement than realistic - there's nothing so boring as seeing a massive army, grind it's way closer then it's basically a dice war to see who crumbles. I want to see units racing for the ruins to stop the sorcerer, a last stand over here, a desperate push across the river before it's too late, a mad flanking sweep and so on.
The recent Joan of Arc Kickstarter was a pretty great indicator of what can be done with big monsters at these smaller scales. I really like how you envisage these battles. As for magic, being able to give some extra movement, for example, should be far more significant than throwing a fireball or two. As scary as that might be, the damage wouldn’t be too great. What I’m trying to say is that magic should work more as buffs/debuffs than as a way of wiping out your opponents.
I think that the only real “I have to have that” fantasy IP at the moment is something like Skyrim. GoT is taken, LoTR is taken, and AFAIK there just aren't many other possibilities. Maybe the Witcher? But that's just mostly medieval humans fighting each other, I think.
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Posting to watch.
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I don't want to over sell myself right now ,But I've been working on a ruleset recently for rank and flank fantasy/historicals that fixes this.
It gets rid of dice compltley and focuses entirely on battlefield manoeuvring and out thinking your opponent.
i remember watching a demo game throughout the day at salute.A beautiful ancients game, But after about 4 hours the two armies were still trudging towards each other.very dull,even if it was accurate! lol
Would be great to see some of the concepts when you're ready to share :-)
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Would be great to see some of the concepts when you're ready to share :-)
I'll happily send the PDF if you're interested, once i've gone through and made it a little less...chaotic. :D
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I'll happily send the PDF if you're interested, once i've gone through and made it a little less...chaotic. :D
Sure would be great to try it out - no rush, got a few things on here ... ;-)
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There’s one question that’s been bugging me (well, two): do you have any IP in mind, and if so, can you tell us?
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There’s one question that’s been bugging me (well, two): do you have any IP in mind, and if so, can you tell us?
Ah! :-) Not really at the moment (though there are a few options and I'd also like to do our own IP which we have a concept for), I'm more interested in finding the right rules and if we can't find them, then create them. That said I had a eureka moment last night so we'll see... I was up late writing up a frenzy of notes :-)
So this question came up - there's not enough big monsters for 10mm out there - what would you like to see?
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So this question came up - there's not enough big monsters for 10mm out there - what would you like to see?
Well, that kind of depends on the IP ;)
Obviously the classics: dragons, griffons, wyverns, hydra, giants, cockatrice, basilisk etc. at this scale you can make them look outrageously large, which adds to the cinematic value imo. I know that some prefer smaller creatures, but there’s plenty for them out there already.
As for something different, I’ve always fancied a ‘fantasy asian’ force with a giant tortoise-dragon as a centrepiece. Complete with howdah/wooden fort on top. That’s probably a little more specific than you were hoping for though ;)
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So this question came up - there's not enough big monsters for 10mm out there - what would you like to see?
Traditionally, people get their monsters from 15mm and upwards scales so in my opinion there is not a real need for those though they would be welcomed. I think traditional fantasy is already covered though new ranges would be welcomed as well.
As I commented before, something totally new like Barsoom would be great; and not only monsters from Mars could be done in 10mm but flying ships and Martian buildings as well (here thinking of Frazetta's amazing paintings). Actually, what it refrains me from playing Mars is the scale, as terrain and buildings in 28mm would be so specific and costly to do, but in 10mm would be easier.
Ruleswise, I haven't found anything yet better than old Warmaster by Mr. Priestly; rules that allow you fast movement for big armies and clean and fast damage resolution without littering the battlefield with tokens. In our latest games we used the new orders system and unit formations from Hail Caesar together with Warmaster rules and then it worked perfectly.
Eureka did a 10mm fantasy Chinese range and another from black Africa. They both are very nice but I don't think they are selling them by droves. I guess a new fantasy range in 10mm would have to be three things to be successful:1) excellent miniatures like those from Copplestone, 2) a great new ruleset and lastly 3) support in the way of new publications and ranges as well as internet assistance with the rules.
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Traditionally, people get their monsters from 15mm and upwards scales so in my opinion there is not a real need for those though they would be welcomed. I think traditional fantasy is already covered though new ranges would be welcomed as well.
As I commented before, something totally new like Barsoom would be great; and not only monsters from Mars could be done in 10mm but flying ships and Martian buildings as well (here thinking of Frazetta's amazing paintings). Actually, what it refrains me from playing Mars is the scale, as terrain and buildings in 28mm would be so specific and costly to do, but in 10mm would be easier.
Ruleswise, I haven't found anything yet better than old Warmaster by Mr. Priestly; rules that allow you fast movement for big armies and clean and fast damage resolution without littering the battlefield with tokens. In our latest games we used the new orders system and unit formations from Hail Caesar together with Warmaster rules and then it worked perfectly.
Eureka did a 10mm fantasy Chinese range and another from black Africa. They both are very nice but I don't think they are selling them by droves. I guess a new fantasy range in 10mm would have to be three things to be successful:1) excellent miniatures like those from Copplestone, 2) a great new ruleset and lastly 3) support in the way of new publications and ranges as well as internet assistance with the rules.
Is Barsoom really suitable for mass battles? I don’t know the setting, myself.
I agree with pretty much everything else in your post, though. I like Eureka’s 10mm fantasy Chinese, but they’re missing basic infantry, which is quite an oversight. Then again, wish listing is difficult unless you know what does or doesn’t make sense in a given setting (hint hint).
I think that a strong IP that creates a coherent world is essential to a project like this working. Mythic Battles’ Joan of Arc game didn’t have a big-name IP, but they managed to turn it into a pretty compelling setting. The religious stuff isn’t my cup of tea, but it’s a great example of creating something big out of very little.
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Big battles have a part in Barsoom; Red men vs. Green men, Black men vs. the Terms, flying fleets battles, etc. Some people have made Hordes of the Things Barsoom themed armies to play with. In the recent film John Carter of Mars we could see a battle of Zodanga army assaulting Helium.
Anyway, Being Barsoom or traditional Fantasy, a successful product would need to be a "boxed product" containing good, tested and widely reviewed ruleset plus armies, in the way GW works but with correct pricing, and then support and support IMHO.
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Judging by how modiphius treat their other products, I’m sure that we can be confident that this will be well-supported. :)
@modiphius: how long do you reckon this will take from concept to delivery? Are you thinking about Kickstarter?
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Is Barsoom really suitable for mass battles?
Where the John Carter books have big battles they are massive, several hundred thousand warriors per side. Force structure is based on 10s so: 10 (squad)-100 (utan)-1000 (dar)-10000 (umak), but virtually no details are given about how the weapons were allocated, in formal discrete units? or mixed formations? and all the city armies were the same.
Unfortunately there are no large monsters in the John Carter stories and those creatures that are present do not make up part of an army (although it is hinted that the Green men may use war dogs).
There is nothing that really pushes the books forward as a source for interesting mass battles for a wargame.
There is better scope for mass battles with the wonderful MAR Barker Tekumel stories or the Drenai books from David Gemmel or even (and I never thought I would recommend these for anything) the Shannara series from Terry Brooks.
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I'd personally love 10mm Glorantha. God Wars are the perfect setting for that sort of thing. lol
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Traditionally, people get their monsters from 15mm and upwards scales so in my opinion there is not a real need for those though they would be welcomed.
To a degree. Giants seem to work well from 15mm ranges. But the hydras, manticores and some other creatures we have got, while they work with 10mm, are very big. Of course the perception of how big a monster should be is just a perception, but a lot of the 15mm ones are on the big size.
There are quite a few oriental ranges around, but most of them seem somewhat incomplete. And are from a range of different manufacturers.
A good set of fantasy mass battle rules, looks like it would be popular. Preferably a set that is geared towards smaller scales, and fairly small units, allowing lots of units on the table.
This was a multi-player, all day game, but the photo is only 2/3rds of the battle field, using lots of 10mm figures, and our home brew rules.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MT-KvSGCiJyWX_dh5CLo2bjBpa3GKJoIRipUFos8obzFzRRU91KNLYtKb84hK2OwsMmPzT6P0M_d_iLCARBnJ0KrkLnWLa6KUls-vJhibRs7pII4Nc5QiIhftAl2NcLTQO9He7W5DsLWb2CbspW9AEYGg-H8vNejhqAGFQB1-a8ud4UGjW6Lg4xT5B1yuznoscl_X3i0os2_Yb3gkXbi2xpsC9E7huoz8y85uMwA4Z8pOvwYHh4NSPbRcyrbhJ5hoddbfY-04vHCteYD1XIKkE9gHwbN6Zqy7_aCiJRij5PIjPcAa6SiYMrNHu9s-6s8wXLwHsYiUsbrnIj_i6Be-A_9Qoq7itEbX3lqB834EnY6JEPWscL8zGln6bGpXRWfJyPDkBW6iFP-fCvP_nmlGgKxuCXz3By7ZkSGBPdWrj0ed7ZgNvk__jGFgVKvol_xFeUEAMHXQac_dIMbYcPD5wN8rLcFGK6F85tUYavtQJktKXMSAv604GvudyJSv-VL9mjX_wEBY6q77-LTS6Nueww2I-Qs_pEPoNEfqzZE1o5WZ-ZYr_P9yRlxxMiZmoy-iYQvj_jM-LCMenbtlN1NCrBGpbeOnba7Vaa5U0VHDGradXpr_VgdryGgrG1qrsNiDEKHEuPjaTfXsm3CQFUK9pO0OwtkQLxF=w1410-h747-no)
This is an two player evening game
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3mcw9sexQ4jW0Ag6Cbvh98o6-bF52kIzflZUZa0MiPgvpXPfbSHm3-cYxwd1yPtpBPaZy6YAmIMuOlsCkvAjT5ARFjLLONWpX7UR_wG0PB3I8413kVhnJtkUgGx-_Xwfapoph48EnMqn16Xr652EjZaQAEnZe37iMDfNqQCZrEgM-k0fUPWA8t-R3Y-3j8I-HYzy-yx2HVNjQ4fOR9zRgngrm30hT2_Wf-B9EPiwR1myc2pZyx9rdoi4zI-skdbvX-PEWfP_zv6pUdtRfx0H1CNpeve8cCgxbYY7KAEB1DUuCP2ke6MqEo9yAm9nsw5Ba3UX7N_rG-c8RMdcPWi4r7Y10nJqZaiE5bFrR9BQ8Uf46ywAtC4ciFOEXMn4wDHWwi-B1ArzLpfKjQIc54NtJuJ_JuMcldcUDlBMI_bFg22XoalYjt-UuGpAqsJLvQqzF6KmJe3QVr7YL3N0_StWHp2pJSIrGtmxbiLht3ilH0-xHZDMLkCOBfYTvjY6gtZdqBH1MdpJxzYSqjuNAega7rRINR38ci9mhJXKVQTwtwX6P-DvkelZ7CzTVBOvcIf4NQW15sA6ZlcvgMJVPfysc9sDoPn4cUqsiOofv8QcuWl4yQdX-zw5R-ZeowAp0EMD7ZbKo6T1JLTnsIDKtMoqAFU1iXRH7f8E=w1410-h837-no)
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I agree on more movement than realistic - there's nothing so boring as seeing a massive army, grind it's way closer then it's basically a dice war to see who crumbles. I want to see units racing for the ruins to stop the sorcerer, a last stand over here, a desperate push across the river before it's too late, a mad flanking sweep and so on.
I think Mayhem is one game that does that really well. It uses an "overdrive" mechanic so that the same unit can be repeatedly activated in the same turn, but at a high cost in command points (it gets progressively more expensive to activate the same unit). So if you want to pull off a flanking manoeuvre with your wolfriders (or whatever), you can go all out and have them race down the flank far faster than the rest of your army. That makes for a really dynamic game.
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Judging by how modiphius treat their other products, I’m sure that we can be confident that this will be well-supported. :)
@modiphius: how long do you reckon this will take from concept to delivery? Are you thinking about Kickstarter?
Any good project really takes at least a year but realistically 18months to deliver a product line including a well tested game with community support, etc etc. Now we could be playtesting something sooner of course. Just takes time to get shiny boxes full of cool stuff developed.
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Love the pics Fred - nothing like playing a truly big game - i'm always one for putting *everything* on the table :-0
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I think Mayhem is one game that does that really well. It uses an "overdrive" mechanic so that the same unit can be repeatedly activated in the same turn, but at a high cost in command points (it gets progressively more expensive to activate the same unit). So if you want to pull off a flanking manoeuvre with your wolfriders (or whatever), you can go all out and have them race down the flank far faster than the rest of your army. That makes for a really dynamic game.
i agree and I like the polyhedral dice system where you can take the average (4) of say your d8 combat stat or roll it - maybe you'll get a 5-8 result.
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Any good project really takes at least a year but realistically 18months to deliver a product line including a well tested game with community support, etc etc. Now we could be playtesting something sooner of course. Just takes time to get shiny boxes full of cool stuff developed.
Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be happy to help test it out.
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Love the pics Fred - nothing like playing a truly big game - i'm always one for putting *everything* on the table :-0
Thanks- if only it was everything. At least the elves were pretty much all of my elves on the table.
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Replying to follow the topic.
Trying to get back to gaming. With Mayhem. No success so far.
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Well a sunday afternoon that should have been spent mostly working on end of quarter reports was sideswiped by some particularly cool ideas for the project which I've been writing up since. This is partly linked to my solo quest to find or figure out a ruleset that gives you that feeling of being part of a bigger battle or controlling the enemy ai such that it's pursuing the objectives.
I'm going to try another game of Mayhem and Mortem et Gloriam - I actually tried the same battle with both systems oh and also Hordes & Heroes Fantasy - has anyone tried that? It's designed for hex based terrain but I decided to simply convert the measurements to inches.
I'm also looking at plastics production - Battlefront have been moving a lot of their 15mm figures in to pvc plastic sprues which could work for regiment lines where massed ranks are important. Meanwhile metal is still good of course and great for providing a lot of variety
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That battlefront pvc stuff is reasonably good, but would it translate to a smaller scale? The detail is already a little soft at 15mm.
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That battlefront pvc stuff is reasonably good, but would it translate to a smaller scale? The detail is already a little soft at 15mm.
Maybe - a lot of factories are doing hardened pvc now which holds more detail (but us a little less flexible making more unusual poses harder to produce without lots of parts). Would need some testing of course and we can ask the factory to show us what they have made at smaller scales to see what's possible. There's always metal or resin in the meantime.
In reality the manufacturing is a relatively easy puzzle to solve given time, the fun bit will be the system that takes us on a journey beyond mere battles (though they have to be great) and matching it with a great universe.
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In reality the manufacturing is a relatively easy puzzle to solve given time, the fun bit will be the system that takes us on a journey beyond mere battles (though they have to be great) and matching it with a great universe.
Sounds simple enough! lol
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Ah! :-) Not really at the moment (though there are a few options and I'd also like to do our own IP which we have a concept for), I'm more interested in finding the right rules and if we can't find them, then create them. That said I had a eureka moment last night so we'll see... I was up late writing up a frenzy of notes :-)
So this question came up - there's not enough big monsters for 10mm out there - what would you like to see?
As mentioned previously the IP you already own ie John Carter. No big monsters but lots of big battles and lovely ships.
I haven't been tempted at all by the 32mm kickstarter but go for 10 or even better 15mm and I will be there.
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As mentioned previously the IP you already own ie John Carter. No big monsters but lots of big battles and lovely ships.
I haven't been tempted at all by the 32mm kickstarter but go for 10 or even better 15mm and I will be there.
I think the issue is having enough variety of units at that scale, though I'd love to do airship boarding actions (which is why we're doing it in the 32mm scale using the tiles), but having lots of smaller ships would be cool
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So after a couple of weeks of musing, are you any closer to working out what you want to do?
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I know I'm late to the party, but my group loves the idea of massed battle 10mm! We came full circle back to WM after about 12 years away from it a few months back, but felt it wasn't for us. We then found Mayhem and have been remounting units. I'll put a few pictures up after our next game.
As for what I would like to see in this scale, how about Starship Troopers :D :D :D
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Also late to the party. I love the Warmaster figures and the Warmaster game is one of the few GW games I like. I think it's great. I was gung-ho for Warmaster a decade or so ago when blisters could be had for $3-6 on Ebay. I was ready to get several armies, and I'd limit my 28mm collection to a warband for each Warhammer faction. The first army up was Chaos, and I wanted to make a mark with a theme, so chose Nurgle based on the lists in the Lost and the Damned. In addition to the troops I got wagons to make a great calvalcade and a bunch of 25-30 mm monsters to make into spawn and other creatures.
I painted up a starting force, save for the knights, which I never got to. Had some fun, but I got burned out converting 100 empire flagellants into diseased flagellants and painting them all (count as Marauders). 10mm proved to be even more work/inch than 28mm figures. I didn't get the savings I needed to make it worth it. I left the project with some great WIP stuff in a box. I stratch-sculpted this great unclean one (after a Stephen Tappin illustration) that is still among my best work.
One of the incentives to do Warmaster was a nearby club that had this amazing collection stored at one of the guy's relative's house. There was a gas main explosion (made national news) that ruined the collection, though thankfully no one was harmed. They had every army, painted nicely.
After that, took other paths, collected more, matured to the point where I'm totally fine with the concept of figure-ratios, and now I have a full 25/28mm army for pretty much every Oldhammer faction, and plan to scratch my Warmaster rules itch with fantasy Hail Caesar or rules that draw inspiration from them.
TLDR: Only actually played a handful of games with my Warmaster army, but still have a strong affection for it, and would break it out if I met someone local who played, and get at least a few more units and my WIPs done including that great unclean one. I caution people looking for a shortcut or easy-button, though. 10mm wasn't that for me. Those GW figures are great but they don't paint themselves any more than 28mm do.
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We didn't care for the single unit changing and continuing to drive back/cause damage until it lost or killed the other unit. Like the way Mayhem works with command and fighting.
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Fantasy does seem to enjoy more generally agreed-upon rulesets for small scale than sci-fi. Recent research has led me to discover that there aren't many popular options for sci-fi, which is a shame. With an emphasis on shooting one could argue that sci-fi benefits from mass-battle rules for small scale more than does fantasy.
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I painted up a starting force, save for the knights, which I never got to. Had some fun, but I got burned out converting 100 empire flagellants into diseased flagellants and painting them all (count as Marauders). 10mm proved to be even more work/inch than 28mm figures. I didn't get the savings I needed to make it worth it. I left the project with some great WIP stuff in a box. I stratch-sculpted this great unclean one (after a Stephen Tappin illustration) that is still among my best work.
I think with 10mm (and smaller scales) you need to focus on painting units, not figures, and this can take some getting used to. While its possible to paint 10mm figures with lots of shading and details (and there are great examples shown on LAF) this can't be seen at playing distance. Working out how to get units on the table, that look good at playing distance in a reasonable time frame is the key. And this is a different skill to painting 28mm figs. As with most things, with practice it gets easier and faster. I can turn out 10mm units quickly now, much more quick than I used to.
I commend your dedication to converting so many figures! Especially for such a useless unit as Mauraders...
Fantasy does seem to enjoy more generally agreed-upon rulesets for small scale than sci-fi. Recent research has led me to discover that there aren't many popular options for sci-fi, which is a shame. With an emphasis on shooting one could argue that sci-fi benefits from mass-battle rules for small scale more than does fantasy.
Epic (and its many variations) is probably the go to set for Sci Fi. We got a bit fed up with the fiddliness of Epic and I wrote a cut down version that we are enjoying playing. A lot of the cutting down was on unit profiles that are often far too complex for no real gain in Epic.
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Just had a look at my copy of Epic Armageddon. Perhaps it could work as a free-setting ruleset. The army lists/points system seems a bit prescriptive but might work I suppose. According to the book we could look forward to a new Capitol Imperialis in 2005!
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So after a couple of weeks of musing, are you any closer to working out what you want to do?
Well the John Carter of Mars Kickstarter hasn't left a whole lot of time for musings, but I've just acquired some more painted forces for... you know... when ... anyway they'll be needed! ;-)
Seriously though my main goal is to the make fantasy wargame ruleset that we can all enjoy solo but is great for vs and narrative games. Our Fallout Wasteland Warfare ruleset is going to lend some really great tools on the solo and narrative side and I've been developing a way to play a serious of battles (imagine a major battle lasting several days) that captures more of the spirit of being part of a huge engagement.
I'll try to post some more thoughts soon, and as soon as the KS is over I plan a big battle to test some ideas and will share some pictures.
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Solo play sounds really great, especially because I’m moving cities soon!
Just a shame you have to sleep, eat, etc, as well as run the Kickstarter and everything else. ;D
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Solo play sounds really great, especially because I’m moving cities soon!
Just a shame you have to sleep, eat, etc, as well as run the Kickstarter and everything else. ;D
I know right...! Still wheels are in motion devising the next steps. I will do a call out for testers once I get the basics together.
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Just acquired another set of the Battle of the Five Armies set - i really do like the scale of the infantry units in this box as it looks much more like large ranks of infantry. Now I'm currently looking at some 6mm castle terrain which I think looks much better with this scale. Will aim to post some intriguing pictures this weekend...
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Just acquired another set of the Battle of the Five Armies set -
In the nicest way possible... DAMNYOU! I'm alwayslooking out for a copy and I've NEVER been able to get one at a reasonable price.
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In the nicest way possible... DAMNYOU! I'm alwayslooking out for a copy and I've NEVER been able to get one at a reasonable price.
Keep an eye on ebay there's been a few on there recently
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Kibri makes some HO scale castles that look good with 10mm as well. Though it depends on whether you actually want them to fit troops inside, or they’re just nice-looking LOS blockers.
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Kibri makes some HO scale castles that look good with 10mm as well. Though it depends on whether you actually want them to fit troops inside, or they’re just nice-looking LOS blockers.
Yes they look nice but I certainly would prefer some practical castle works
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Kibri makes some HO scale castles that look good with 10mm as well. Though it depends on whether you actually want them to fit troops inside, or they’re just nice-looking LOS blockers.
Yes they look nice but I certainly would prefer some practical castle works
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Had a chance to think about these rules any further? :)
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Had a chance to think about these rules any further? :)
I was thinking about reviving this thread a few days ago, as I would also like to knowwhat the plans are for these rules. If play testers are needed I might even start a 10mm army for the purpose.
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We have a bunch of the Warmaster Armies and still go back to that at least once a year. We have started using the Warmaster Revolution rules, they have fixed some of the problems have noticed, among other things now you can only issue three orders to a unit, you only fight two rounds of combat, supporting ranks can now follow up a pursuer to add to the first and second rounds of combat.
They also have army lists not only the original ones but also many of the fan based armies.
Great stuff I dug up a bunch of goblins and orcs from Polar fox, including a goblin band. Great stuff.
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I have various warmaster based 10mm armies on individual bases and movement trays using 1/2 scale WHFB 3rd edition, Mighty Empires and Siege. My friend has bought into 3D printers and is working on mighty fortress’s for us.
Hopefully a couple of pictures attached including a sculpted goblin rider for the Ogre WHFB vulture, a giant made of bits and green stuff, some warmaster cavalry and a familiar copplestone wizard.
BALM
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Great painting on tiny figures.
Our group still regards 10mm Fantasy as our core game - and our Warmaster armies (with plenty of more modern additions) get out on the table quite often. Although we have long moved on from the WM rules themselves.
Here's a recent small game, we played over video link
(https://i.imgur.com/uC11YNa.jpg)
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Fred that looks excellent. I love my 10mm fantasy, it’s my reserve hobby parachute that will keep me busy for years to come.
BALM
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Thanks, that was the start of the game, when it was all nice a sensible, and in battle lines!
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Hopefully a couple of pictures attached including a sculpted goblin rider for the Ogre WHFB vulture, a giant made of bits and green stuff, some warmaster cavalry and a familiar copplestone wizard.
Damn! I am jealous of that vulture rider. I've just 'finished' a 10mm goblin army and he'd fit in so well!
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0TUjuGmxtdk/XuTZtI8FP9I/AAAAAAAAIoM/fY69pDnNZtYTDXL7zrYOA34ZinWBnN7QwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/0.jpg)
http://irregularwars.blogspot.com/2020/06/fantastic-battles-army-showcase-goblins.html (http://irregularwars.blogspot.com/2020/06/fantastic-battles-army-showcase-goblins.html)
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Wow, BALM!
Great work. You, too, Nic.
I'm working on some 10mm Caesarian Romans that will no doubt pull double-duty in fantasy games, but your work in 10mm is better than mine 28mm.
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Irregular Wars Nic: thank you it was done to match the warmaster goblin wolf riders as I now can finally have an all wolf rider goblin army I dreamed of when little.The vulture is just the plastic one from the stone horns kit and then a little sculpting and some filed and bent brass to make the bow and arrow. He did turn out well though but that’s because I copied an excellent sculptor. The poor dead/dying horse it’s standing on is sculpted and carefully painted then totally obscured by the model :) (it’s a trademark I’m culturing). Your completed army is excellent. I like your spider riders (I love mine :)) you don’t have any orc boar boys (just realised it’s a goblin army - sorry) do you need some?
Darthfozzywig: Thank you but the miniatures do a lot of the work. These pics are quite old and I’m currently re-doing all the bases so can post some more pics if anybody wants to see them. I have some rare warmaster stuff like halfling archers and a hot pot. Most is in the work queue but I have a ludicrously comprehensive vein of warmaster in my lead mountain (two whole roses tins plus extras) and most armies from human, elf, Kislev, dwarf, dark elf, orc and goblin and skaven. Some armies just don’t accept being cut up well thus no chaos or undead.
Thank you for the comments,
BALM
Hopefully attached a couple more pics
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BALM, thanks for the offer of boar boys, but while I love my cunning and unreliable goblings, I'm not so fond of orc bullies.
I didn't realise there were Warmaster halflings! My other big army is a halfling force supported by treefolk. Unfortunately I haven't got good photos of them altogether yet, but here is a taste.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W8b3cLRRtrw/XotDm8I_QbI/AAAAAAAAIMY/BmYeGDvktDgpRmyn9HoJKIwjAR8q9P_JgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/20200406_100827.jpg)
I also have an army of night elves (like dark elves, but not as obsessed with S&M) painted up for my wee lad, and recently ordered a dwarf army.
Curious to know what other 10mm fantasty stuff you have in that lead mountain... Always on the lookout for more forces to supplement my 'completed' armies. :D
Incidentally, I've reached a point with my forthcoming rules, Fantastic Battles, where I am looking for a couple of playtesters if you have any time on your hands. There is a tread here on LAF: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=124511.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=124511.0)
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I love 10mm fantasy. I've got empire, dwarf and vampire counts armies painted up and ready to go.Hoping to start getting some games in when I move back home next month.
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I do love 10mm fantasy a lot. Got painted empire, high elves and orcs & goblins, but not to the skill shown here.
Anyway. It’s a great scale! I use it for Warhammer (mostly 6th edi), and I got ogres and more empire and millions of unpainted elves for my retirement.
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I went with 6mm for warmaster but by the time I'd got a ton of it painted, loads of other games came out for small scale so I never ended up playing warmaster at all. So much good stuff has come out for 10mm recently, it's seen a bit of a revival as of late. I'd like to get back into 10mm fantasy stuff but I'm in way to deep with 6mm now.
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I think I only have what can be described as too many 10mm fantasy armies...
On my some what out-of-date blog I have 16 listed https://fantasticalarmies.blogspot.com/p/armies.html
And of those the Ogres and Dwarves has seen major progress and both are now painted playable armies.
Then there have been other purchases
Ratman (unpainted)
Including some more historical forces, that I’m sure with the addition of a few appropriate fantastical creatures will be seen facing off against Dragons and Orcs!
Samurai (so new they aren’t even with me yet, but have been dispatched)
Barons War (unpainted)
Renaissance / Medieval Irish (painted)
Tudor English (painted, but a smaller force)
And who knows what might be lurking in a drawer somewhere.