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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Charles92027 on 31 January 2018, 03:55:39 PM
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I’m fairly new to this hobby, I’ve painted less than a dozen figures. I’m seeking advice on using washes, specifically for dark lining details after the figures have been painted.
I prime my figures with white, because I like them to be dressed in bright colors, then after I paint them, they look flat-shaded, so I then go over them in a dark wash to fill in all the cracks and crevices.
I really like the shaded, dark-lined look of a washed miniature, but I find that mine come out looking dirty. The cracks and crevices are filled, and the figures are shaded, but in general they lose all the brightness and they look like they’ve been rolling around in the dirt.
I think I’m getting better at it, but I’m looking for any advice that anyone might be able to share.
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Keep doing what you have been doing, but then 'highlight' the colours, first with the original colour
(do not completely cover the 'dirtied' section)
then a small 'spot/streak' with a lightened version of the colour.
This will bring life back into the colour.
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My advice would be don't do it. I am not by any means an expert painter, and this is only my opinion. But a wash is basically an uncontrolled technique. I prefer to paint a shade coat first and then one or two layers of highlights over the top. (Ie. dark to light). My rationale is that if I PERSEVERE in a technique I will gradually get better at it with practice, and I believe I have.
If I had just relied on washes however, I would never have gotten any better since the first figure I painted.
This , I stress again, is only my opinion, and others will tell you the opposite.
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I use highly diluted Windsor and Newton India Ink for this sort of thing; very carefully applied to the specific shaded areas. The dilution means it rolls off the highlights without affecting them.
But yes, also what "has.been" says: colour, wash -- in this process, consider something like Army Painter "Dark Wash"[1] -- then more of the base colour.
[1] I go through TONS of their three basic washes ("Dark", "Strong" and "Soft". They're a brilliant way of getting good effects quickly.)
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I read that if I clear coat the base layer with gloss varnish that the washes not only fill the crevices better, but it maintains the bright base layer.
Has anyone tried that? If so, what varnish?
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I have been writing a book about painting and it will be published later this year. As part of the preparation, I read up on various ideas about washes and did a lot of experiments. Here are a few thoughts.
When you see black lined figures by an outstanding painter, like Ruben Torregrossa, his black lining is not a wash. Instead, each line is carefully painted in with a tiny brush.
Dark brown or black acrylic wash over acrylic paint causes extensive staining, hence the dirty appearance. As said by the post above, you will need to repaint the main surface to get back the clean colour. This sounds like a pain but is quite quick to do.
Using dilute paint as a colour wash e.g. dark green over olive green works very well and often looks better than painting shade then main colour. However, it takes a long time.
You can improve the wash by gloss varnishing the figure. This reduces the staining but does not eliminate it. However, you then have to matt varnish as well.
Some modellers say that you should use an oil wash over acrylic paint and an acrylic wash over enamel paints. The idea is that the wash has a different solvent, so this reduces staining. You can make an oil wash with a tiny smear of artists oil paint (e.g. Van Dyke Brown) diluted with a teaspoon of turpentine or better odourless mineral spirit. My experiments showed some improvement, but you have the disadvantage that it takes two days to fully dry.
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Apply the wash mainly to the shadow areas, as others have said, don't just put in on everywhere.
Also use a dark grey wash for cool colours (e.g. Payne's Grey) and a dark brown one for warm colours (e.g Sepia)
A quick dry brush with the original colour picks out the highlights again.
The multi-layer method is very slow compared to wash + highlights.
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I have a friend who pants all of his figures with "washes" over a white undercoat and he gets a lot painted in a short time.
I cannot make up my mind if I like it or not, it is far quicker than my black undercoat and 3-5 layers of paint but to me it lacks something `solid`.
If it is the way you like to paint then keep practicing, you can always strip the washes off and start again until you find your desired style.
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A technique I've been using lately is a dark wash directly over a white undercoat, and then proceed with very thin coats of the actual colours. You get the darker areas shining through the coats of paint, and you get "free" blacklining too.
I used a lot of washes on colours earlier, and then you have to paint over the washed area with the original colour, unless you want a very dirty look. Like many said above.
Another way to use washes is to paint only the shadows, but this is precision painting, and a similar effect is probably easier to achieve by painting progressively lighter layers with normal paints.
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Washes do not have to qualify as an 'uncontrolled' technique.
One way to use it to good effect is to do as many of us do: prime white and give the thing a complete wash of thin burnt umber or black mixed with a drop of flow improver. The wash will pool in creases and folds and make for a good dark blackline or shade for the basecoat. Ridges and flat areas will remain white enough as a base for lustrous colors.
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Depending on what you want to achieve, washes can be your friend... or your worst enemy! For dramatic effects -which work pretty well in wargaming figures- I use white priming, then basic colours, wash (matt inks!) and then I highlight the figure using the same techniques I would use in a black primed figure.
Also I make an extensive use of washes for enhancing some basic colors or giving them a tone I like. For example, I have found that a couple of controlled layers of red ink (GWs) work like a charm to simulate the pink color in lips. With yellows, which are notoriously difficult to paint, I use White and then, depending on how intense I want the final shade, I give one to three layers of Cassandora Yellow ink (I can always correct later with highlights). In faces and hands, for instance, I have found that I can enhance the shadows by using a mix of Reikland Flesh and Seraphim Sepia; not as a wash, but targeting in thin layers the areas where I want deeper shadows to show.
One of my Napoleonic French (Front Rank), painted using washes and then highlights:
(https://i.imgur.com/95T41GL.jpg?1)
(the actual colours are darker... the picture looks overexposed... Damm! :'( :'( )
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I agree that washes and dips, especially dips, can cause you to stagnate as a painter.
With washes there are a few tricks you can use though, to change them from sledgehammers to scalpels.
A tiny drop of dishwashing soap in the wash makes it flow better and less will end up on the large flat surfaces. There are probably better flow agents available, but I havent tried any.
Only wash the parts of the model that you actually want to shade.
Use more than one colour of wash. A lot of people use only brown or black but its so simple to wash the red pants with a red wash and the blue coat with a blue wash.
Do a hightlight after the wash. This can be anything from an edge hightlight to actually repainting areas if they're too dark.
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This is my latest attempt. He’s actually only the thirteenth figure I’ve painted, but he’s the most pleased I’ve been in the wash effects.
I started with white primer and then painted all the colors.
Then, as you guys suggested, I only put the wash in the cracks. I think that was the big secret. I was putting it all over.
Then I repainted as necessary with green and gray, but any yellow that needed touch up I hit with some white first - that made a hug difference.
Thanks everyone for the advice, I really believe so much just comes from experience. My thirteenth figure is so much better than my first, I can’t wait to see my hundredth.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/31/13786-240218053903.jpeg)
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Very nice, Charles! Glad that you found your "swing" :)!
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He looks great!
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That's worked treat :)
Hopefully you'll post plenty more.
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I thinks that pretty impressive for your 13th miniature :)
On a seperate note, who makes that miniature?
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Good job on the Retro-Raygun mini! (http://shop.hydraminiatures.com/index.php?cPath=2_31&osCsid=a68ddde6679881a2e895f94d017cfe09)
I've been painting minis for 15 years and made every mistake a guy can make... here are some things I have learned - and I love washes and it drives me nuts trying to get them to behave as inks (I'll explain the difference as I see it).
GW has a good technique for layering. It's usually:
1 - Base coat
2 - Wash
3 - Base coat again, leaving the wash in the crevacess
4 - Layer #1
5 - More layers (if you like)
6 - Edging/highlighting
Step #3 is necessary to make that washed area no longer look dirty.
If you don't wish to layer and are just looking for a nice, cleanup after the wash, I suggest using multiple thin layers of the color (called a glaze). This makes a nice, opaque surface.
Dave Woodward (DWArtist) taught me about that and it helped A LOT. You'll notice that his painted surfaces are nice and opaque, they don't have the dirty, faded look you had mentioned.
http://dwartist.blogspot.com/
When I made model airplanes with oil-based paints, I was better able to get a wash to go into the crevices without discoloring the surfaces. I have not had much luck getting this to work with acrylics.
I have started using a mix of lahmian medium plus flow-improver (from the art store) with the wash or with the paint I want to use. You'll have to experiment with what % of each ingredient.
The flow-improver takes a day or two to dry, unlike the other ingredients. Be prepared.
I hope this helps you! I look forward to seeing more of your work!
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You can omit steps after 3 if you are painting more than a few dozen figures. Life is too short :-)
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I prime white and always wash my figures before putting any colour down.
That way your cracks and crevices are already shaded, and this will show int he final figure.
I do quite alot of the heavy lifting in my painting with washes and weathering, and i find that it helps to treat them less like a liquid you can't control and more like a paint. if you just soak the mini it will be covered, but you'll get pools of chalky dry wash full of pigment, but if you take brush your wash on and focus it to certain areas you can avoid this. you can also go in with a clean wet brush after and remove any streaks/blend your washes smooth and get rid of any dirt patches.
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Absolutely - don't just slap wash all over the place - treat it like paint.
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Hold on - you wash over white primer first, then put on paint? How does it turn out?
Sounds like the crevacess then don't have a shaded shade of the base color but instead have only the wash color.
I like how washes are part wash-color and part base-color so you get a shadowed version of the base, not a totally different color.
Does that make sense?
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Hold on - you wash over white primer first, then put on paint? How does it turn out?
Sounds like the crevacess then don't have a shaded shade of the base color but instead have only the wash color.
I like how washes are part wash-color and part base-color so you get a shadowed version of the base, not a totally different color.
Does that make sense?
There's a lot of people I know that prime and then wash models, especially ones with a lot of details. It tends to make a lot of the details more visible for your actual painting. It can also be used similarly to a zenith technique depending upon how you use it...
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I've seen it used i zenith techniques.
If you thin the base colour paints you use, you can actually get a lot of shading done by giving a white primed model a black or brown wash first. I think it works best if you're going for fairly light colours.
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The 'white base and washes' technique is sometimes called 'stain painting'.
If done right, you get highlights very quickly. Works really well for WW2 stuff, I find (although I'd use diluted paints, not inks).
I tend to use flat colour + washes - the washes being diluted and applied to just those bits which need them (e.g. diluted Payne's Grey ink over blue trousers, diluted Sepia for facial features, and so on)
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Then what's the relationship between the base color and the wash?
I can see the wash bringing out nice details but isn't that darkest shadow meant to be a dark version of the main coloring?
For example, if it's khaki pants, then the wash would be a mix of, say, Earthshade or Strong Tone, on top of the khaki, so the two colors mix.
It wouldn't look right to have shadows in the recesses that don't have some of the main color in them, right?
What am I failing to visualize and understand, here?
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Inks are translucent - you can see the main colour through them.
So if you use a dark grey ink for cool colours (blues, greens, purples) and a dark brown ink for warm colours (reds, yellows, browns) then you'll get a nice effect. White can have either grey or brown wash depending on the effect you want.
The inks settle in the crevices and darken the base colour - they don't obscure it.
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Here's an example of some recent figures painted this way
(https://i.imgur.com/wRYJOdN.jpg)
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Inks are translucent - you can see the main colour through them.
So if you use a dark grey ink for cool colours (blues, greens, purples) and a dark brown ink for warm colours (reds, yellows, browns) then you'll get a nice effect. White can have either grey or brown wash depending on the effect you want.
The inks settle in the crevices and darken the base colour - they don't obscure it.
Right, but I thought we were discussing putting the wash on directly over the primer as opposed to the base coat.
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Ah, ok, well stain painting uses diluted paints over white, so the paint is translucent, and the white shows through on the highlights while you have more or less solid colour in the shadows