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Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Steam Flunky on 10 February 2018, 02:34:44 PM

Title: Help. Renault Char B1 bis. What does "bis" mean?
Post by: Steam Flunky on 10 February 2018, 02:34:44 PM
The french early war Renault Char B1 tank was improved as the "B1 bis" and later to the "B1 ter". Anyone know what bis and ter mean? Wikipedia and  nternet translation dont give any results.
Title: Re: Help. Renault Char B1 bis. What does "bis" mean?
Post by: Sir Dryden on 10 February 2018, 02:58:02 PM
"Bis" means "second" or "twice", "ter" means "third" or "three times" ("thrice"?). Both aren't much used outside of annotations on sheet music. I never understood why it wasused in a tank's name or designation. The closest English equivalent would be "Mark 1", "Mark 2", etc.
Title: Re: Help. Renault Char B1 bis. What does "bis" mean?
Post by: Westfalia Chris on 10 February 2018, 03:11:03 PM
The "bis" denotes the production model manufactured from 1937 to 1940. This was an improved variant of the initial series of the "Char B1", built from 1935 to 1937 after a long development period.

Its German designation equivalent is the Ausf. notation, e.g. PzKpfw IV Ausf. A-J.

Note that in British parlance, the "Mark" notation denoted both production variants or lots of a single type as well as more or less fundamentally different vehicles, e.g. Crusader Mk. I to III (three subsequently modified variants of a single design) vs. Light Tank Mk. IV thru VI and, preceding the Crusader, the various marks of Cruiser Tanks (which shared common design principles, such as the Horstmann suspension for the Light tanks, but differed quite markedly in various design elements and outward appearance).

When applied to German tanks, AFAIK it denoted the basic type, as in the "Mk III", which referred to the PzKpfw. III (Sd Kfz 141); "Mark III Special" was used for any Panzer III variant with a long-barrel 50mm gun (Ausf. J, L and M).
Title: Re: Help. Renault Char B1 bis. What does "bis" mean?
Post by: Arrigo on 10 February 2018, 03:47:33 PM
they are Latin words, meaning second iteration (bis), or third iteration (ter). They were used both in France and Italy in technical writings of the time.
Title: Re: Help. Renault Char B1 bis. What does "bis" mean?
Post by: Steam Flunky on 12 February 2018, 07:03:50 AM
Thanks Dryden, Chris and Arrigo.
Now i know what they mean and have googled them in the right context i have found them.
For a Weird War game where the french are still fighting in 1943 i am building an upgraded  B1 which needed a name. Now i assume after the B1 bis and B1 ter it would be the B1 quater followed by the B1 quinquies. That sound correct?
Title: Re: Help. Renault Char B1 bis. What does "bis" mean?
Post by: Hammers on 12 February 2018, 09:49:01 AM
Interesting.
Title: Re: Help. Renault Char B1 bis. What does "bis" mean?
Post by: Arlequín on 12 February 2018, 10:34:44 AM
The British equivalent for an 'alternate' would be *, as in Mk V*, or Mk V**.

Now i assume after the B1 bis and B1 ter it would be the B1 quater followed by the B1 quinquies. That sound correct?

You are correct, although quinquien would also be correct. I don't know if they might be abbreviated in service though, qui/qua etc.
Title: Re: Help. Renault Char B1 bis. What does "bis" mean?
Post by: lou passejaire on 12 February 2018, 11:45:19 AM
the successors of Char B1/B1bis was the Char G1 ...  ;)

Title: Re: Help. Renault Char B1 bis. What does "bis" mean?
Post by: Arlequín on 12 February 2018, 03:36:52 PM
I suspect that models of that are pretty thin on the ground.  ::)