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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Charlie_ on December 07, 2018, 01:30:11 PM
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So I've relied on Winsor & Newton for my matt varnish for the last couple of years, which I get in the spray can.
I've also got a bottle of the brush-on stuff just for when the spray isn't appropriate, and happen to also have a little dropper bottle of Army Painter matt varnish.
Now I'm no varnish 'perfectionist' - I just give things two coats of the spray, and it's matt enough for me.
But lately I've noticed it's not quite matt enough.
It leaves a slightly satin finish. I compared it to the brush-on bottle I have... which also has a similar finish. I compared it to the Army Painter one.... the same.
Now I've never really used the brush-on much so can't claim it was ever perfectly matt, same with the Army Painter. But the W&N spray did use to give me a perfect matt finish. I've compared my latest paintjobs to ones I did about 6 months back, and yes there is undoubtedly a difference in the varnish finish.
Anyway, this could roughly correspond with my latest spray can of the stuff. It could be that it's only been a problem using this can, and the last can was fine.
So has anyone else noticed this lately????
Two more related questions.....
- As regards to the bottled varnish, I've read everyone here say the best way to use it is to leave it upside down, and then just use the stuff that collects in the lid. That's what I've been doing, but it's not really matt enough. Perhaps I'll try shaking/mixing the next attempt. I'm not convinced this upside-down method is working for me. The idea is it just collects the true matt medium, if that's the correct term, without the carrying fluid, if I do it like this, right?
- How many coats of matt varnish is too many? My last batch of figures I did, where this problem really became apparent, I tried lots of combos, and in total they will all have had multiple coats of spray and brush-on. I've ordered another can of the spray, and if it seems better I'll give them another coat. But could I have given them too many already, and will I regret it?
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Interesting
I’ve recently stopped using W&N Galleria Matt brush-on due to too much shine. Tried two different bottles and neither were satisfactory.
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I have been using the brush on Galeria varnish from them and have noticed it seemed satin but I found out I had not shaken the bottle enough. When I tried again it was matt after shaking the bottle for much longer.
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Believe me both bottles had a lot of inverting and shaking :D
What I haven’t tried is storing the bottles upside down and using the residue in the cap
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Windsor and Newton professional Matt spray is the best matt varnish around in a can imho.
Windsor and Newton general purpose Matt spray varnish leaves a slight sheen and both come in very similar looking cans.
Is it a case that you've been using professional and then you've inadvertently switched to general purpose?
It happened to me :)
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yes, just had a 'fresh' can of the 'professional' matt spray, as I'm putting myself through the mill regarding varnishing atm.
the professional branding is a silver can with black lettering, and a black cap.
still an absolutely matt finish - the only ready-to-go varnish (i.e. not using an airbrush) I've used that does.
ironically I think I now find that 'look' too matt. I didn't use to feel that way - and have varnished 100s of figures with it - so not sure if it's my perception, or if it's constituted differently now - still matt, but somehow losing colour and contrast.
Dallimore gets an amazing matt finish - but having read his 'instructions' in the old Foundry books, you need a degree in chemistry and endless patience / checking to achieve it.
I find myself inc. happier with the egg-shell, slight sheen look as a compromise - colours are more vibrant etc.
a la steve D's threads on this forum.
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Windsor and Newton professional Matt spray is the best matt varnish around in a can imho.
Windsor and Newton general purpose Matt spray varnish leaves a slight sheen and both come in very similar looking cans.
Is it a case that you've been using professional and then you've inadvertently switched to general purpose?
It happened to me :)
Good idea, but I just checked - it's definitely the Professional one.
I did however find the LAST can before the one I'm currently using, and it has a little bit left in it. I just tried it, and as expected it works perfectly. So it definitely is the most recently purchased one that is iffy, and the older one is fine.
Now interestingly the iffy one is a 400ml can I ordered from W&N themselves. The good one is a little 150ml can from Amazon. I've ordered some more of the little ones, interesting to see how they turn out....
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my 'fresh' can (literally delivered this week), is as 400ml - was from Cowling and Wilcox.
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These may help:
[1] https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2008/05/painting-tips-1-humbrol-mattcote.html
[2] https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2014/05/painting-tips-5c-matting-acrylics-with.html
[3] https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2011/09/painting-tips-5a-matting-acrylics-with.html
Plus the article "The Unvarnished Truth" may help with some of the chemistry:
https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/p/articles.html
Finally, as matting a surface relies on the nature of the surface to be varnished, not just the varnish, your ageing paints & even the primer may play a part. The sheen may be more obvious on certain colours: reds, blues & some greens if the colours are close to pure. This why I add talc to matt the paint, an seal the layers in one: the varnish has less "work" to do.
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those are brilliantly informative, thanks for putting up the link (and doing all the work in the first place!).
still sounds a bit much for me - too much of a constant juggling act for a 'I want it easy' type like myself.
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Update - I bought a new spray can of W&N, and it's fine. Nice matt finish.
So I guess the dodgy one I had was a one-off?
Though I'm still not convinced about the brush-on bottle, I've tried it both shaken well and the upside-down-just-use-stuff-from-the-lid technique, and it seems to never get a good true matt finish.
Could I have been unlucky enough to have both a dodgy spray can AND a dodgy brush-on bottle on the go at the same time???
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I think every bottle or can varies a wee bit.
I’ve been using W&N Galeria, brush on, for several years now, and I’ve NEVER had a problem with it not being matt. Steve you must have been unlucky with a dodgy batch...
I do store it upside down, and use the gloop collected in the lid with a little of the carrier added and a splash of clean water mixed in to thin it for application.
The problem I have found with it, is that after a few months, with the bottle still half full, the occasional white spot appears on the model when dry. Like a tiny solid lump of matt material. This has to be scraped off. When you start to see this white spotting from a bottle of the stuff, it’s time to chuck that bottle away and buy a new one. They only cost the price of a couple of pints, so it’s not exactly punishingly pricey.
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I think you’re probably right that I was unlucky, Richard. Given the general positivity around the brush-on product (and my prior good experience) my recent bottle is the outlier.
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I think you’re probably right that I was unlucky, Richard. Given the general positivity around the brush-on product (and my prior good experience) my recent bottle is the outlier.
Mine too.
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Mine too.
True that :(
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I think every bottle or can varies a wee bit.
I’ve been using W&N Galeria, brush on, for several years now, and I’ve NEVER had a problem with it not being matt. Steve you must have been unlucky with a dodgy batch...
I do store it upside down, and use the gloop collected in the lid with a little of the carrier added and a splash of clean water mixed in to thin it for application.
The problem I have found with it, is that after a few months, with the bottle still half full, the occasional white spot appears on the model when dry. Like a tiny solid lump of matt material. This has to be scraped off. When you start to see this white spotting from a bottle of the stuff, it’s time to chuck that bottle away and buy a new one. They only cost the price of a couple of pints, so it’s not exactly punishingly pricey.
yep, I used to use the brush-on a few years back - dead matt as you say, but the white spots put me off.
although the spray can is still giving me flat matt, two bottles of the brush-on are failing, leaving a satin sheen, one I've had for a year or three, one bought last week.
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I have always placed some drops of Tamiya Matt medium in to my jars of Galleria Matt Varnish and this has helped to reduce the shine.
https://dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.com/2009/04/matt-varnish-my-latest-recipe.html
Tony
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excellent tip - thanks for the info.
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As I was experimenting with a new way of imitating rust on a squad of models I'm doing at the moment, I needed to seal the effect before proceeding with subsequent layers (I was using pigment powders).
So I was in need of a brush on matt varnish, as spraying it on as usual would mean losing the shine on other metallic parts I had already painted. This should ultimately also serve me as a lesson in careful planning, but I digress... ::)
I bought the ubiquitous W&N Galeria Matt Varnish at the local art supply shop last Saturday, heeded all the warnings about shaking well, storing upside down, etc, etc. I applied the varnish that evening, and let it dry thoroughly till yesterday.
It had dried almost completely matt (only the slightest of sheens is visible, and then only on select surfaces), and as far as I'm concerned, it did exactly what it says on the tin. So my bottle at least was fine, and for my purposes (sealing in the powders to facilitate further painting) it has proven adequate.
Is it the most matt varnish I have ever used?
No. That was the small spray can of Testors Dullcote I once bought from overseas (at great effort and cost), but for what it is, it's more than good enough. Especially since I will be applying a final coat of spray on matt varnish once the minis are completely done anyway.
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I am in the US, but the last few cans that I purchased are also not as flat as the previous. I have gone back to using testers dull cote.
Dale
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I have found brushing on Tamiya Flat base mixed with Galleria Matt Varnish to be a dead flat finish. Testors Dullcote the last few years has been hit or miss for me.