Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Grimmnar on 20 March 2019, 07:02:09 AM
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Heard an interesting comment this past weekend at Cold Wars, that people are leaving FoW to get into Bolt Action.
Can anyone, who has verification of information, comment on such a thing?
True or False?
Just kind of curious. With all the comments i have read since v4 was released of FoW that it isn't as accepted as previous editions and hearing good things of the 2nd edition of BA i guess i could see it. I know i haven't played any of v4 to date and stopped playing FoW since i think 2nd edition, maybe some 3rd edition.
But BA being in a larger scale and with less minis i dont have an answer.
So what say you, thoughts?
Grimm
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Just a general observation from me:
I have definitely seen some of it here in Melbourne/Australia. Flames of War has died off since v4 (for the Australians - the numbers at Cancon in 2017 - 2019 are a good indication of this) and some of these players have migrated to Bolt Action.
I would say though in my immediate circles these ex-FoW have general migrated to other games that were on the sidelines (too many to list), while a lot of 40k players have also turned to BA to get into "historical" wargaming. FoW is what got me away from GW ~15 years ago, so I am a little sad to see it die, but then I've only played a handful of FoW games in the last 5 years.
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We used to play FoW a lot, but with about 20+ different eras we play and several different rule sets of choice it has been played infrequently during the past four years. Currently, we are playing BA a lot, mainly because I've been slaving away painting like crazy and all of our gang, bar one (but he doesn't like any rules where he doesn't automatically win, no matter what dice he throws, anyway), like the rules and enjoy the game.
FoW in its current form is better we think than previously, certainly easier to play, but we want to see cards for mid war released before we dive back into it again. Re-releasing everything in plastic seems like an extravagant retooling exercise by Battlefront, they'll need to shift tons of product to make it worthwhile, and you wonder just who is moving into WW2 FoW in sufficient numbers to buy all this stuff to make their investment pay off?
We may get back into FoW once Oil Wars comes out and I've painted yet more IDF and Arab forces to go with it, but like I say we game so many periods some stuff only comes out the cupboard once or twice a year.
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No one on earth can verify your question tbh.
And you'll get as many opinions as players.
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One could always play neither and instead actually try and wargame World War Two? Chain of Command are quite good ;)
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No one on earth can verify your question tbh.
And you'll get as many opinions as players.
We will have to agree to disagree.
Already got two responses above.
And as an example, you have a person that plays with a group of friends or at a local game store, or both.
Said person can relate that they play a tourney a month or plau FoW once a week like clockwork.
Said person can say though for the last year in their experience they have stopped playing FoW, for whatever reason, and now play BA.
I know that nonone person can answer for the world. But several people can tell me their experiences they have encountered as of recent.
Stores don't do FoW tourneys because the draw isn't there any more.
Stores can say sales in FoW is down but their has been a surgence in BA sales.
Sparrow, and there are plenty enough games. He'll instill love Angrieff.
I just want to know for FoW and BA.
I am asking fflornthese two for a specific reason.
Grimm
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Looking at the world wide comp figures over the last 5 years should give you an indication - although the FOW sales team will deny this and say lots more people are playing at home - by themselves - in the dark lol
Biggest comp FoW - used to be 70-80 here in Oz now 6-12
In UK was 40-50 - now 5-10
Bolt Action picked up a few but I suspect they are losing ground now as people realise its limits as a game
As someone mentioned Chain of Command is the way to go for platoon level......but then I am biased :-*
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I don't think anyone can deny that for many, many, many wargamers Games Workshop games is what got us into this hobby. Tapping into that market is going generate sales which can allow you to make miniatures. So, I don't hate FoW or BA - we all want different things from this hobby. Or are constrained by time, money or space.
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I think the Chain of Command v BA argument is a bit like Brexit, or Marmite whichever analogy you prefer. I have both sets of rules, but having played BA at Hammerhead I was drawn to that set. I haven't actually played CoC so I can't compare the two, but BA got to me first so that's what I've stuck with. Maybe one day we'll try CoC and see what everyone thinks.
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I think the Chain of Command v BA argument is a bit like Brexit, or Marmite whichever analogy you prefer. I have both sets of rules, but having played BA at Hammerhead I was drawn to that set. I haven't actually played CoC so I can't compare the two, but BA got to me first so that's what I've stuck with. Maybe one day we'll try CoC and see what everyone thinks.
Have a go at both. For me, BA is a fun pick up game, where you can get lots of toys on the table - the rules are quick and easy (mostly!) and you can get stuck in, and make lots of 'bang bang' noises. Great fun. Chain of Command very much more restrictive in what you can a) put on the table, and b) what they can do there, but really really, engaging, especially if you are prepared to invest the time in playing the campaigns. It's very much 'Commando' comics, versus Beevor for me. In a sense, it's width versus depth.
And rereading that, it makes it sound like CoC is a cerebral exercise and very dry.. absolutely not, it's the most engaging and intense, and FUN, wargame ruleset I have ever played in 40+ years. (Which to be fair, have included some absolute stinkers, like Newbury 'Fast Play' Napoleonic.)
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Don't know anyone who plays WW2 using FoW or Bolt Action.
So not sure how that effects your straw poll. ;)
Then again I don't know anyone who plays Chain of Command either..
I suspect my group is just closed minded and wedded to a set already...
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intense,
You nearly had me there, until that word popped up :D We have a rather intense gamer who sometimes loses it if he doesn't get the dice rolls he requires, which is a lot of the time. I don't think he could stand an intense set of rules as well. lol
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You nearly had me there, until that word popped up :D We have a rather intense gamer who sometimes loses it if he doesn't get the dice rolls he requires, which is a lot of the time. I don't think he could stand an intense set of rules as well. lol
Then keep him away from Chain of Command - he will NEVER get the rolls he wants lol o_o
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I can only speak for my small group. We used to play allot of FOW. Including several campaigns. Since V4 the dozen or so players is down to just a couple of die hards. Most of us now play BA at least on occasion. To be fair some of us had started on BA before V4 of FOW came out but V4 killed it for several more.
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FoW is a parking lot game - truly offensive to anyone who’s worn the black beret; Bolt Action 2nd Edition cleaned up some silliness but is still a game ...
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Our local FoW guys simply packe dup with v4 overnight and they were some of the most die-hard FoW players and ranked pretty highly internationally. Not sure what offended them so much but it did!
I think you actually have an evolution going on. The new versions of rule cause a backlash from the old players and an influx of new blood. Bolt Action for me didn't really make any progress V1-V2 some got better some worse. But it did cause a shift in the player base. Look at Cambridge too far, biggest event ever and it's the last year it's going to be run due to problems with rule consistancy and the problems associated with overpowered units and bizzare but rules legal combos (Mauri-Gurkhas...).
Will an mediocre upissue kill a system overnight? no, but you will take a hit on long term player numbers and social media allows us to gripe in public about it!
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FoW is a parking lot game -
I'd say that all depends on how many vehicles you choose to cram onto your table, the size of the playing area, and the scale you choose to use.
but is still a game ...
Surely they all are??
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Same here v4 killed FoW off.. and Bolt Action wackery at tournaments has all but killed it off too.
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I’ve never played FoW but have been considering Oil Wars. Just can’t face painting 15mm which I have never done. Always been 28mm. I’ve enjoyed some games of Bot Action with Soviet and Japanese armies but accept its a bit random.
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Painting 15mm is fun - I'd recommend all wargamers at least try to paint the popular scales (6mm/15mm/20mm/28mm) at least once to see how they differ.
Unlike my 15mm ancients/medieval that can transfer between rule sets easily (as 40mm frontage has become the norm), my extensive FoW armies have no other rule set to easily transfer across too. I'm hopeful that they will be useful in the future. Because, you know, 15mm WWII is blue chip wargaming.
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Painting 15mm is fun - I'd recommend all wargamers at least try to paint the popular scales (6mm/15mm/20mm/28mm) at least once to see how they differ.
Unlike my 15mm ancients/medieval that can transfer between rule sets easily (as 40mm frontage has become the norm), my extensive FoW armies have no other rule set to easily transfer across too. I'm hopeful that they will be useful in the future. Because, you know, 15mm WWII is blue chip wargaming.
I ain‘t been shot Mum by the TooFatLardies should be playale with FoW basing without any problems.
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Painting 15mm is fun - I'd recommend all wargamers at least try to paint the popular scales (6mm/15mm/20mm/28mm) at least once to see how they differ.
Unlike my 15mm ancients/medieval that can transfer between rule sets easily (as 40mm frontage has become the norm), my extensive FoW armies have no other rule set to easily transfer across too. I'm hopeful that they will be useful in the future. Because, you know, 15mm WWII is blue chip wargaming.
IASBM is good, you can also use your FOW bases for Chain of Command (I know some people screams at not using individual figures or even 15mm, but I have tried and it works well), and also with Battlegroup from Iron Fist. You need to track casualties (I have some nice skull markers for that!). Another option is Battlefront WW2, excellent rule set, I know the suggested bases are smaller but I have never encountered any issue in playing with FOW bases. In all 4 cases I am speaking from personal experience (I like FOW basing, do not like FOW at all in 15mm!!).
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Thanks Arrigo - some rules for me to check out.
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you are welcome, even if I do not know if your wallet will be so thankful! lol But they are all excellent rules well worth the price.
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Painting 15mm is fun - I'd recommend all wargamers at least try to paint the popular scales (6mm/15mm/20mm/28mm) at least once to see how they differ.
Unlike my 15mm ancients/medieval that can transfer between rule sets easily (as 40mm frontage has become the norm), my extensive FoW armies have no other rule set to easily transfer across too. I'm hopeful that they will be useful in the future. Because, you know, 15mm WWII is blue chip wargaming.
Iron Cross (great escape games) and Blizkieg commander (pendragon) are other option for your FoW based figures. Neither are competition sets but works well for WW2 games. They are games though - more than CoC which you can also use them for as well. :)