Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: 6milPhil on May 19, 2019, 06:24:47 PM
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I don't really have words for how furious this has made me.
(https://www.mdmrc.org/images/show/2019/justgivig_link.jpg)
(https://www.mdmrc.org/images/show/2019/thumbnail.jpg)
(https://www.mdmrc.org/images/show/2019/thumbnail_4.jpg)
The story on the Beeb
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48326572 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48326572)
The club's homepage
https://www.mdmrc.org/stamford-show-2019.html (https://www.mdmrc.org/stamford-show-2019.html)
The club's just giving page, they asked for a humble £500, pleased to see it's almost at £17k
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/market-deeping-mrc (https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/market-deeping-mrc)
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Yeah, I read about that today. Sickening. Some guys have spent decades building their layouts and they're wrecked by a bunch of little pricks who haven't got the ability to build anything, so they just destroy instead.
I'd like five minutes alone in a room with them.
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I'd like five minutes alone in a room with them.
So you could get chibbed by a pack of feral bams? Doesn't sound like fun to me. ;)
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I can't start imagining how much distress this act of wanton vandalism has caused to the people that put so much effort -and time; and money!- in building a collection only to see it destroyed at the whim of a bunch of no-gooders.
They should sue the bastards for damages. Maybe, as minors, they would walk away from a felony, but against a civil lawsuit their ages won't mean antything. They, or their legal tutors, are liable for damages.
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That's multiple lives of hobbytime down the drain. And so unnecessary. Sad f*cks who do something like that :?.
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Fucking disgusting :-[
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So you could get chibbed by a pack of feral bams? Doesn't sound like fun to me. ;)
The cheek! I am in my prime!
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So you could get chibbed by a pack of feral bams? Doesn't sound like fun to me. ;)
Translation? ???
Back on topic....it is really sickening and does make you think none PC thoughts.
Doug
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I read about this earlier. It is shocking. Seeing the bigger photos which show the scale of the damage is unbelievable, this isn't just a run through and break things, it must have taken some real time and effort to cause that much damage. To tip over that many tables, and smash up so many things that people have spent so long creating. And were just wanting to show to other interested people.
They should sue the bastards for damages. Maybe, as minors, they would walk away from a felony, but against a civil lawsuit their ages won't mean antything. They, or their legal tutors, are liable for damages.
This is quite a good idea. Its not a common thing in the UK, perhaps due to the cost of the legal proceedings, vs the very low damages, and the very long periods of repayment the courts can give.
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Fucking disgusting :-[
Really just about sums it up perfectly! Fecking dicks!
I can't start imagining how much distress this act of wanton vandalism has caused to the people that put so much effort -and time; and money!- in building a collection only to see it destroyed at the whim of a bunch of no-gooders.
They should sue the bastards for damages. Maybe, as minors, they would walk away from a felony, but against a civil lawsuit their ages won't mean antything. They, or their legal tutors, are liable for damages.
That’s maybe the problem. It’s not the monetary value of the layouts, it’s the time and effort and dedication these skilled people have shown in their love for Model trains that you can’t put a value on!
Certain people who can’t create, can only destroy when they see others good work!
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This is so sad. Years of dedication and passion spoiled for nothing.
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This story made me feel sick to my stomach.
Tony
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The kind of people who have done this, really are the trash of our society.
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I can't describe how I felt when I saw this just now. One modeller is 70 years old and has spent 25 years building his layout. I can only imagine the mental anguish he is going through, the trauma could finish off some people for good. On a positive note the Justgiving page (where the club asked for a paltry £500) has now passed the £31,000 mark. I just donated. https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/market-deeping-mrc
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Disgusting.
All that work and effort, and passion. Then four youths come along.
Angry.
Better to donate.
Damn that gets me upset, I don't do model railways but I understand the passion, the loss must be just so bad >:(
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Now past £40k on the Justgiving page, excellent news.
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They'll be able to get their own full-size train at this rate.
The incident was horrible, and while it's not as if money can fix everything, the reaction has been heart-warming.
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Yeah, saw this yesterday too. Despicable and pointless. Break in, cause damage - just because you can, just because it’s something to do. Happens a lot with ignorant, indolent youth... probably high as kites at the time, and probably sorry now - but the damage is done and years of creativity and skill down the drain, trashed in a few minutes of cruel idiocy... I know crimes against property are not viewed as significant compared with crimes against the person, but this isn’t just property is it? It’s art and years of dedication, ingenuity and skill. I sincerely hope they throw the book at them and lock the little fuckers up. The donations are wonderful, and I’m off there next. But I’m just imagining how I’d feel (I’m guessing we all are) if someone trashed, smashed and stamped my entire collection of a couple of thousand painted wargames figures, vehicles, buildings and terrain boards. So much of my life’s time and effort has been poured into them, that money can’t really buy what they mean. They’re beyond value in some ways. That’s what these poor railway modellers have lost. Very sad.
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I was just gobsmacked by this. :'(
I could not, even in my darkest dreams, imagine why somebody would do this. Especially with this level of dedicated destruction. It must have taken them quite a long time to wreak this amount of havoc. Probably to the point where they actually got tired. So there must have been plenty of moments to think, realize or reconsider. And to continue beyond those points speaks volumes about the morality of the perpetrators. Here's to hoping they get what they deserve.
Also, it's very easy to imagine what an act like that would mean to me and my almost three decades worth of miniatures and terrain.
Normally I don't do this, but I now felt compelled to donate...
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I had not heard about this - I am horrified!
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On a positive note they now have a decent representation of the Bielefeld Viaduct or the marshalling yards of Hamburg, Frankfurt, Nuremberg or score of other cities in Germany circa 1944. My great uncle was among the culprits there. A very nice American chap, by the name of Marshall, stumped up a Kickstarter not long after.
Awful as such mindless vandalism is, it does make one ponder on the ephemeral and transitory nature of most hobbies/pastimes. How much of anyone’s collection, unless it’s rare coins or stamps is marked for posterity and how much for a skip? The key thing is to enjoy the hobby whilst you are doing it.
I’d be considerably annoyed if someone trashed my collection of toys but I recognise it would be both untruthful and pointless to moan about 25 wasted years. Time is one thing you cannot get back, whether you are making scale representations of the Burma Railroad or double entry book keeping. If you used it enjoyably or profitably, well then more power to you.
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This does defy belief. Or actually no it doesn't. I donated last night and am pleased to see it's passed £47K now. Maybe they can get a dedicated meeting place which may help towards closure......as for the 'youths' I am of 2 minds......we all know the first, the second being how do we integrate these types into decent society? Not a question for LAF really but I despair on humanity.
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...Awful as such mindless vandalism is, it does make one ponder on the ephemeral and transitory nature of most hobbies/pastimes. How much of anyone’s collection, unless it’s rare coins or stamps is marked for posterity and how much for a skip? The key thing is to enjoy the hobby whilst you are doing it.
I’d be considerably annoyed if someone trashed my collection of toys but I recognise it would be both untruthful and pointless to moan about 25 wasted years. Time is one thing you cannot get back, whether you are making scale representations of the Burma Railroad or double entry book keeping. If you used it enjoyably or profitably, well then more power to you.
Even though I'm still appalled by the wanton destruction of people's pride and joy(s), I must admit that you do make a valid point there.
It's about the journey, not the destination and all that, right?
I get that, but I also very much get the notion that something you put your heart and soul in, becomes something more to you than 'just stuff' or the memory of past quality time. Most people will attach emotional value to things created in such a way, whilst the outside world will not.
So the value is only in the eye of the beholder, yes, so it cannot ever be quantified. But we, as miniature wargamers and hobbyists in general can still relate, because we often have the same investment in the products of our labours.
But this value is only there for those who created those things, and possibly, through projection or affinity, to those close to the creators. So my miniatures are worth more to me than the combined value of the miniatures and the hours spent painting them, might hold emotional value to my wife and daughter, and possibly to certain members of my close family and friends (because I spent so much time on them), but outside of this select group, the value of my miniatures reverts back to their nominal market value.
Now, I've heard and read about people in the hobby who will look at their hobby stuff as 'just things' and will just bin everything if the situation requires it without batting an eye. There is a certain merit and liberty to such a mindset, but I think I can speak for the majority of hobbyists when I say that for most it's not that easy, because of the unquantifiable added value of something created by oneself.
Which is probably why this resonates so deeply with most of us...
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This does defy belief. Or actually no it doesn't. I donated last night and am pleased to see it's passed £47K now. Maybe they can get a dedicated meeting place which may help towards closure......as for the 'youths' I am of 2 minds......we all know the first, the second being how do we integrate these types into decent society? Not a question for LAF really but I despair on humanity.
sentence them to 25 years community service/supervision - making model railways..although that might not integrate them - It would keep them busy.
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Sentence them to 25 years of listening to train spotters whittering on about timetables and engine numbers. Alternatively, get them building their own, miniature, Burma Railway with the club members playing the Japanese. :D
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I was a Police Officer in the UK and have been to court in vandalism cases like this.
>:(
Unless any of the youths have previous burglary convictions or they filmed themselves doing it for social media the end result will be a magistrates court reprimand and community service. Bleeding heart Liberal defence lawyer will play on the lack of jobs and difficult home life of the offenders, the lack of support in the community from mental health professionals, lack of education and training opportunities and they may even get consideration for having been drunk or high at the time so not totally aware of what they were doing.
The public donations will probably serve to ensure that no monetary compensation/damages claim will be considered.
Part of a wider and serious problem in British society for which the opportunity to rectify has passed.
>:( :-X
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Yes, jolly good flogging and transportation for the term of their natural lives.....
Given that vandalism is by no means a recent or even modern phenomenon, I’m left wondering how far back that golden opportunity was missed.
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Indeed, this sort of thing has been prevalent all my life. I think it was even worse when I was a nipper. At my primary school in the 70s, some public-spirited individuals took it upon themselves to emulate the IRA H-Block inmates and staged a "dirty protest" in the boys toilets. It was a very realistic depiction of the inside of a cell in the Maze prison. I remember teachers and other grown-ups declaring it a prelude to the fall of our civilisation.
I just hope they washed their hands after.
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Yes we’ll we all know these incidents are not a modern phenomena - I grew up in the fifties in Liverpool and "juvenile delinquency" was, shall we say, not unheard of. But I do feel the vast expansion over the past 40 odd years in what is whimsically called the "drug culture" has been a game changer, spawning a massive increase in crime at all levels. Possibly?
Doug
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But I do feel the vast expansion over the past 40 odd years in what is whimsically called the "drug culture" has been a game changer, spawning a massive increase in crime at all levels. Possibly?
Doug
Or just the increase in population means more incidents, even if the rate stays the same, and better reporting means we hear about them.
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Or just the increase in population means more incidents, even if the rate stays the same, and better reporting means we hear about them.
That is definetly the case around here, population has increased, crimes get reported a lot more often and aren't "lost" in the system meaning there is more visible crime now then ever, even if the per capita rate is on a steady decline.
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I'd just like to point out a few things raised in previous posts. The incident took place in a school hall which is where an annual show is staged, the club do have their own meeting place, this wasn't it.
The youths involved are under the age where their names are divulged, but we aren't aware of their ages yet, so they could be early teens and still at school possibly.
There could have been some premeditation about this because there are reports of hammers being used which suggests they went equipped, unless they found them on the premises itself of course.
I see Rod Stewart has donated £10k and called upon Jools Holland, Roger Daltrey and other musicians to match his donation.
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Terrible.
I donated some money.
Apparently Rod Stewart has given £10,000. I didn't know he was a model railway enthusiast, but apparently he is.
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Rod Stewart is a hardcore train/rail enthusiast.
models and real ones.
known to take the train to his own concerts if/whenever possible to enjoy the journey..and i don't mean first class either.
remember going to one with my better half a few years ago - he was tweeting pictures of him and his wife on the southwestern turbo train on their way to the concert in London.
Good on him.
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Rod Stewart is a hardcore train/rail enthusiast.
Jools Holland too. He used to live in a converted railway station too...
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Surely the punishment here should involve having to rebuild some of which they have destroyed under the direction of the railway modellers after having to face those who's layouts they destroyed to explain why they did what they did and they impact that their actions had?
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I suspect the temptation to intemperate language correlates to a feeling of impotence at this senselessness.
Donations now over £80K.
Of course there have been occasions where a sudden influx of funds to an amateur body has caused new problems.
I hope the club members can enjoy the hobby and avoid bitterness.
And if you are taking figures to a Con for display, ensure that there is adequate security there.
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Wow the heartbreak of all who had been hurt. It pains me I know the heartbreak.
One modeler is 70 years old and has spent 25 years building his layout. I can only imagine the mental anguish he is going through, the trauma could finish off some people for good.
My Father and I, had been working on a Crafting business of Lapidary and Leather Goods, we worked hard to build it up with equipment, tools, raw stock and product, so when I retired from the Military him and I would go and do the craft show circuit. My Dad was Scoutmaster for a Scout troop and they went out on a four day camping trip, that night shortly after my Dad left, a Rental truck pulled up, the neighbors thought my dad was moving, well we were wiped out of everything tens of thousands of dollars equipment, tools, supplies everything. Well My Dad was never the same after that, it broke his heart I know but he never said anything about ever again after that.
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Even though the names aren't in the media they'll be known to the local community and I would think there'll be a fair amount of 'social' punishment going on, possibly against the parents too if they refuse to accept some of the blame themselves. At the very least they should be made to make a public apology to the members and listen to what the members' reaction is to their handiwork. That might help to shame them into doing something useful with their lives instead of this.
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They will have little remorse and only regret they have been caught.
Most probably they will come from disfunctional family's , on a culture of benefits , relationship breakdown, morale collaspe and low aspirations.
Sadly this will make them rather notorious amongst their peers
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Coming up to £90k on donations now. Wow.
Talk about 'if something good can come from this'. With that sort of money they can get professional carpenters in to plan and build a great foundation for new layouts and then set to remake or redesign things again. It doesn't replace the time or love they put into the first ones, but by Jehovah, it's not a bad substitute all things considered. Hopefully it will be some comfort to see the public outcry let the modellers know the eejits who did it are part of a tiny, insignificant minority.
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Considering how relatively small the modelling community is, and that is all aspects of it, it warms the heart to see the response to this appeal and realise how many people out there really care. I think because so many of us had trains sets as children it touches a nerve somewhere, even if we haven't visited an exhibition in donkey's years, and makes us remember our childhood and the comfort and pleasure we got from playing with trains. Nostalgia is a strong motivator sometimes. For others, it is a feeling of belonging to a modelling community and a sense of knowing how we'd feel if it was our things that had been vandalised. Whatever the motive for giving, it is very satisfying to see that the club will rise again from the ashes.
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I've removed a number of posts to hopefully get this de-railed trainwreck back on track. We would greatly appreciate if certain folks (well, everybody, but the offenders should know whom I am referring to in particular) could show some restraint in their outbursts, as awful as this whole thing is.
Thanks.
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Anyone wanting an update on what happened could try this link. it explains what happened, who the lads are, and what has happened to one of them so far from his family's point of view.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7059229/Mother-teenage-yob-smashed-model-railway-exhibition-says-mortified.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7059229/Mother-teenage-yob-smashed-model-railway-exhibition-says-mortified.html)
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Just saw this and really don’t want to go into politics...but this is horrible. So much nice hobby stuff destroyed by some idiots with too much time.
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Thank you, Chris for bringing the topic back on track. Let’s keep the egos strictly to PM eh ::) I feel very bad for the club involved, I really hope they can get over it regardless of donations.
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Here you can read the response from the Head Teacher of the school, which is encouraging:
https://www.stamfordmercury.co.uk/news/vandalism-of-model-railway-head-teachers-letter-to-parents-9071205/?fbclid=iwar2vehxgjfaf58tzoagiysfiwhsu4vjaq-agtszdeaga0rxcfj3wjx1xyiw
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I must be really old :(
I always thought you celebrated after the exams.. but hey, maybe they still do, but they celebrate before as well now.
I worry about today's youth, one bottle of vodka between four, so badly affected their judgement/moral senses?
Or was I that much more hardened to alcohol back then..
Still - its good to know the real culprit and instigator of the entire mess and hopefully the football does indeed get properly punished for starting all of this.
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The club were on our local news a couple of days ago, since the final total raised was just over an amazing £106k!! They were filmed at another local show last weekend with a layout that had been tucked away in storage, so the show goes on, albeit in a limited fashion for now. The club chairman said that they were blown away by the generosity of donors, and they plan to use the funds to not only rebuild, although as a member pointed out you can't replace all the hours and years of work that went into making the original layouts, but also to start youth projects to try and get youngsters interested in the hobby and get them involved more. A very plausible idea I must say.
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That sounds like a good result :)
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That's great news.
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Good for them, and even better they have ideas on how to move forward with the generosity and support they have received.
Its a shame it had to happen but at least there is something good to show from it.
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Latest update from local TV is that there are 4 juveniles appearing at Lincoln Youth Court on August 19th, 3 16-year-olds and 1 15-year-old. So, I wonder what will happen to them.
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Well that's old enough to know better. :-[ (and be treated as adults perhaps)
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They were sentenced today - link (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-49397838)
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£500 is too light in my opinion, especially when one layout was worth £15k.
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Thanks for the update, this story was truly amazing.
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Latest update from local TV is that there are 4 juveniles appearing at Lincoln Youth Court on August 19th, 3 16-year-olds and 1 15-year-old. So, I wonder what will happen to them.
Nothing. It’s the UK and they’re juves - boys will be boys, and all that.
Fucking farce
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Nothing. It’s the UK and they’re juves - boys will be boys, and all that.
Fucking farce
Basically.
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Whilst I agree a £500 fine isn't much compared to the many thousands of pounds of damage caused, I think it's reasonable and people need to look at it with some perspective.
The court could fine them the total cost of the damage caused but how could teenage boys ever pay it back?
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It all went south when they abolished the death penalty, corporal punishment, workhouses and transportation for life. I feel a letter to the editor of the Daily Mail coming on.
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Whilst I agree a £500 fine isn't much compared to the many thousands of pounds of damage caused, I think it's reasonable and people need to look at it with some perspective.
The court could fine them the total cost of the damage caused but how could teenage boys ever pay it back?
Better a Student loan style debt, or lifelong indenture to network rail - although that second is a bit extreme.
2 years penal service to the train enthusiasts club, sounds better - like an apprenticeship but in real chains
STill what happened to the damn ball? it was guilty to! What did they do to it?
Did they leave it in a 'no ball games' purgatory? Hah. bet it was just let go, probably did not feel any remorse, gloating and over inflated somewhere plotting its next vandalism.
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Whilst I agree a £500 fine isn't much compared to the many thousands of pounds of damage caused, I think it's reasonable and people need to look at it with some perspective.
The court could fine them the total cost of the damage caused but how could teenage boys ever pay it back?
The parents could pay it back, it would send a strong message out to other parents to stop neglecting parental responsibility and teach them to behave, or else. Facebooks farming pages are full of posts at the moment about young kids as well as teenagers setting light to fields of standing corn, straw or hay, or rolling round bales into dykes and drains, even whilst there are farm staff in the same fields working. Liberal society has taught these children no respect for others or their property and no fear of the consequences for their actions.
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The parents could pay it back, it would send a strong message out to other parents to stop neglecting parental responsibility and teach them to behave, or else. Facebooks farming pages are full of posts at the moment about young kids as well as teenagers setting light to fields of standing corn, straw or hay, or rolling round bales into dykes and drains, even whilst there are farm staff in the same fields working. Liberal society has taught these children no respect for others or their property and no fear of the consequences for their actions.
“Liberal society”
Please leave the politics out of it. Thanks.
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Given that the verdict has been returned, I don't think this thread is that purposeful any more (as compared to publicizing the laudable donation drive). I would prefer if we could refrain from politics and the woes of failing social mores - I'll leave the tread for reference but lock it as read-only. If there is a truly pertinent new development, let me know by PM and we'll see if it warrants unlocking.