Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Osmoses on November 19, 2019, 06:22:48 PM
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Does anyone know the livery colours and any badges for these? All WOTR around 1461.
Ralph Neville Earl of Westmorland
Ralph Greystoke
Henry Fitzhugh
I know Greystoke's badge was a white ragged staff, but that's all.
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My brother, a medievalist, says he finds this useful:
https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2018/09/war-of-roses-livery-colours-database.html (https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2018/09/war-of-roses-livery-colours-database.html)
And this book
https://www.vexillia.com/common/shop_books.html#2_3 (https://www.vexillia.com/common/shop_books.html#2_3)
The Blurb
Standards, Badges & Livery Colours
Still the best work on the subject for wargamers
This 1992 book details the livery colours of many key personalities of the Wars of the Roses as well as illustrating many of the distinctive standards of the period. 50 page volume. A5 and card bound.
£10.00 each.
Explanations of standard & liveries.
117 standards described.
36 standards in full colour.
37 badges with black and white illustrations.
68 mottoes listed.
Bibliography.
Flags available separately.
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Yes, I've checked those. I suspect that the colours are not known, but someone here may have some information, or has plausibly reconstructed them.
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Yes, I've checked those. I suspect that the colours are not known, but someone here may have some information, or has plausibly reconstructed them.
The Lance and Longbow Society is your friend in this (Scroll down to Pub 04, Standards, Badges and Livery Colours of the WoR):
https://lanceandlongbow.com/shop.php (https://lanceandlongbow.com/shop.php)
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all I have
Ralph Neville Earl of Westmorland
Seal
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8f/b6/bd/8fb6bd5e8e482995ce40194517c2978f.jpg)
The armorial wax seals of Ralph de Neville, Earl of Westmorland and Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland from a certificate of service for John de Stryvelyn for service in 1341, in the Scottish March
Only mention I have of Neville livery is "40 yards of white and red cloth"
From 1420 expedition of his father in France.
The Clothiers’ Century, 1450–1550
Ralph Greystoke
Yet to find the full reference, but in my notes a black ragged staff on a yellow feild, from
A List of Printed Original Materials for English Manorial and Agrarian History" (Badcliffe College Monographs, no. 6 ; by F. G. Davenport, 1894)
Henry Fitzhugh
Zip! Nil
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Thanks.
I guess a black bull would be a reasonable guess for a badge for Ralph Neville, same as his brother, John. John Neville's livery was black and red so maybe red and white would be good for Ralph.
Freezywater has Fitzhugh's badge as a blue wyvern or a yellow goutte.
Freezywater has a white ragged staff for Greystoke. I can't find the reference in "Printed Original Materials for English Manorial and Agrarian History" though.
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Here's what I have:
Ralph Nevill
Livery red and white
Badge a white bull's head with green horns, Ducally crowned (Earls coronet) and gorged Or, there appears to be variations with one having the horns tipped gold.
Ralph Greystoke:
Livery blue and white
Badge a white ragged staff, crest turned ermine, black staff with a white dolphin?
Henry Fitzhugh
Livery not known
Badge in 1425 a Goutte Or and possibly used a griffon badge
cheers, Pete
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Thanks. Do you know where you got the blue and white reference for Greystoke from?
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Hi, it's from Heraldic Badges in England and Wales by Michael Powell Siddons, he doesn't say where the reference is from however give th efollowing ' on th epoint of a helm, with mantling barry Argent and Azure, a fish like a dolphin Argent fron tr: Smith's Ord., fol.44v.
Incidentally, I was at Brancepath Castle and church last week and should have took some pics for Sir Ralph.
hope this helps, cheers Pete
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Yes thanks, that's great. The Siddons books are a bit out of my price range!
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Aye, they're not cheap I was lucky and picked up the 4 volume set brand new for £45 a couple of years ago, cheers
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Yes thanks, that's great. The Siddons books are a bit out of my price range!
Mine too but I would say that they were almost essential! I'm going to have to seek them out at a 'reasonable' price.
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Aye, they're not cheap I was lucky and picked up the 4 volume set brand new for £45 a couple of years ago, cheers
£45! :'( :'( :'(
:) ;)