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Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Prof.Witchheimer on 17 July 2009, 09:43:18 AM

Title: Azande weapons
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on 17 July 2009, 09:43:18 AM
Does anyone knows, what were these odd thingies weapons of Azande on the pics (see attachment) made from? Wood? Metal? Stone?
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: ardbeg on 17 July 2009, 09:45:32 AM
I've seen some of those several years ago and they were made of metal.
but I don't know if it always the case...
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Plynkes on 17 July 2009, 09:47:35 AM
They are kpinga throwing knives which were made of iron. They also made ones out of copper that they used as currency, but I doubt our lad would be brandishing one of those in a fight.
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: ardbeg on 17 July 2009, 09:47:54 AM
there is one weapon like this there
http://www.eriksedge.com/weaponsofafrica.html
and there
http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/details/1884.25.2/
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on 17 July 2009, 09:55:49 AM
Cool. Thanks, lads!
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on 17 July 2009, 09:57:48 AM
just found that kpinga one:

(http://southernsudan.prm.ox.ac.uk/images/midsize/1884.25.6_a.jpg)
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Plynkes on 17 July 2009, 10:05:12 AM
I think that's one of those mambeli things, which were swords, rather than throwing knives, but they do look kind of similar. That fellow you painted the other day had one (the one you painted like bone). Until looking into it the other day, I didn't realise they were two different weapon types, I had lumped them together in my mind as 'those crazy-shaped Azande things'.
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on 17 July 2009, 10:36:08 AM
well, looks like, the Azande were really creative in fabrication of crazy-shaped things :)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Richard_Buchta_-_Zande_throwing_knives.jpg)
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: ardbeg on 17 July 2009, 10:40:38 AM
sometimes I wonder how they manage to not hurt themselves with those things  ;)
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Driscoles on 17 July 2009, 11:04:42 AM
The true inventors of the boomerang
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Plynkes on 17 July 2009, 11:14:55 AM
Looking through my folder of Africa stuff pinched from the web over the years I found these two pics of Azande shields that might be of interest.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Azande1.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/Plynkes/Azande2.jpg)

Much more black and less brown than on most of the Foundry-painted ones. I like the look.
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Prof.Witchheimer on 17 July 2009, 11:22:05 AM
Much more black and less brown than on most of the Foundry-painted ones. I like the look.

Me too. Thanks, I'll try to paint similar patterns on my shields on coming weekend.
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Gluteus Maximus on 17 July 2009, 12:43:40 PM
Much more black and less brown than on most of the Foundry-painted ones. I like the look.

The brown is much darker than the shade I've been using  >:(

Hopefully it is because of the effects of aging and nice new ones would have been a pale khaki-ish shade.

Those pics appear to be the same shield, back and front views. If so it's interesting (and very inconvenient) that the design is on both sides. Unlike mine.

 Mind you, I wouldn't like to try and copy that design in 28mm. Mine are much simpler. And, obviously wrong :(
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Plynkes on 17 July 2009, 12:51:56 PM
You're right, it's two sides of the same shield I think. And even the part with the handle is covered with its own set of tiny, infuriating-to-paint designs.

Dare you to paint those on yours!  :)
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: archangel1 on 17 July 2009, 09:09:41 PM
Looks like the pattern is woven into the shield, rather than painted on.  It appears to be in exactly the same position on both sides.  That should really tax your painting skills!
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Gluteus Maximus on 18 July 2009, 02:10:40 PM
Looks like the pattern is woven into the shield, rather than painted on.  It appears to be in exactly the same position on both sides.  That should really tax your painting skills!

It won't tax mine as I don't have any worth speaking of  lol

Large blobs of almost geometric shapes is the best I can do, so I leave the fiddly stuff to all the great painters on the LAF and then gasp and applaud as they display their masterpieces here  ;)
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: sukhe_bator on 22 July 2009, 09:12:32 AM
I can highly recommend the excellent British Museum publication by Christopher Spring 'African Arms & Armour'
Arranged geographically its an excellent survey from top to bottom of the continent. A mine of info for all your colonial african weapon needs.

Apart from their obvious uses (as demonstrated in the Mummy Returns) I seem also to remember something about the Congo throwing knives being used for barter as sources of good iron... ie. the more complicated the shape the better quality the metal used or something to that effect. I think the reasoning was along the same lines as Viking pattern welded swords being so highly prized because the conspicuous patterning which demonstrated the quality of the steel used.
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Gluteus Maximus on 22 July 2009, 09:04:50 PM
I can highly recommend the excellent British Museum publication by Christopher Spring 'African Arms & Armour'
Arranged geographically its an excellent survey from top to bottom of the continent. A mine of info for all your colonial african weapon needs.

Apart from their obvious uses (as demonstrated in the Mummy Returns) I seem also to remember something about the Congo throwing knives being used for barter as sources of good iron... ie. the more complicated the shape the better quality the metal used or something to that effect. I think the reasoning was along the same lines as Viking pattern welded swords being so highly prized because the conspicuous patterning which demonstrated the quality of the steel used.

Seems reasonable, as they must have required a lot of steel, time and effort to make. I'd certainly hesitate to hurl one into the bush, with the obvious chance of never seeing it again. Spears are a much more economical throwing weapon. I can see the logic of them being more status symbols than bona-fide combat weapons.
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Plynkes on 22 July 2009, 09:10:48 PM
They also made them from copper, purely to use as currency, with no practical combat application intended at all.
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: AKULA on 22 July 2009, 09:32:48 PM
Slightly off topic, but this chap has got stacks of Foundry Darkest Africa up for sale if anyone is interested.


http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/davet329_W0QQQ5ftrkparmsZ65Q253A12Q257C66Q253A2Q257C39Q253A1Q257C72Q253A2140QQ_trksidZp3911Q2ec0Q2em14?_pgn=3

 ;)
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: Gluteus Maximus on 22 July 2009, 09:37:10 PM
Dave Thomas, is/was ? Foundry's agent at the UK shows.

Nice chap and very good to do business with.
Title: Re: Azande weapons
Post by: sukhe_bator on 23 July 2009, 08:34:07 AM
The distinction between practical and ritual/ceremonial is blurred with most Ethnographic weapons. Azande 'kpinga' were used as weapons. The iron was good so if you lost one, no doubt someone else would benefit from your bad luck. They were also traded and those made from copper were almost exclusively used as currency.
Spring devotes an entire chapter to these unusual weapons in all their bewildering complexity. This plate from Spring's book shows some of the forms and early attempts by Europeans to 'Classify' the shapes. I cannot recommend this book too highly. A must for you Darkest Africa devotees out there...
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x200/sukhe_bator/References/DSC02674.jpg)